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Is it really that bad...because I feel like I want to boot him out(232 Posts)
I've been a lurker for months and posted once when I first found MN. Ive had to create a new account for this though as I couldn't remember what I'd registered under.
I'm in danger of either massively over reacting or massively under reacting and I would like some advice from some of you wise MNetters to probably do something in between.
I'll try and keep it as short as possible, sorry if it ends up dragging on...
DH and I have had issues for a couple of years now. Particularly during my pregnancy and in the first year or DS's life. He's 18 months now. DH was just a total selfish twunt, like many others probably. Very unsupportive, moody, downright mean on occasions. He also rediscovered porn and as a result we didn't have sex for 20 months. Last Christmas we nearly broke up but decided to try and work it out.
But then another issue came up, which was his work. He is self employed and works hard but dictates his own hours. For the first year of DS's life, he worked way too much and was out most nights. Infact, he was only at home for 47 evenings . I counted on the calendar once. He saw DS for a few hours every morning but because he was never home at night it meant 1) I could never go out with friends or to the gym, 2) I never got a break from the early mornings or sleep disturbance 3) it was hard to get my own work done and 4) I felt very lonely, we never saw each other and I felt our relationship wasn't recovering because of this, it is still very strained. To me anyway, he thinks its fine.
Two months ago, I snapped and said I couldn't go on and things had to change because I refused to live like this any longer. I said we didn't need money that much and laid down some rules. He had to have at least one day off a week, one weekend day a month and two evenings at home a week.
He stuck to it for six weeks. On Friday, he told me that this week he would be out every night working again, but quickly added that he had booked this week before my rules were implemented so he couldn't do anything about it. Then he proceeded to boast about the number of days off he had taken the last six weeks, how good he's been and suggested we have sex to celebrate as we haven't it for a while and tried to get me to thank him. I got annoyed at the time that he expected praise for a basic relationship requirement and forgot to ask the reasons why he had to work.
Anyway, I asked him today. He immediately went on the defensive and told me I never listen, it's impossible to tell me anything. He'd booked the work two months ago. I asked him what and which days and he said Thurs/Fri. It turns out the work he is doing tonight and tomorrow was definitely changeable and would only have been booked last week. I know this because I did the same work for the same people and still do sometimes.
I know for a fact he could have looked at his calendar last week, seen that he was working every night and decided to pass the work on to colleagues, which would have been easy because they all want more work. He didnt want to because he is in a mood with two of the guys he works with and didnt want to give them the extra.
So he has reneged on the agreement because of a stupid mood. I'll be on my own all week, struggling to get my own work done - ive a really busy week ahead - and look after DS
I know it might not seem the worst crime in the world but I feel like telling him to pack his bags. I resent the fact he tried to bluster over it by saying I don't listen to him to distract me from finding out the truth.
We didnt speak for an hour while I mulled over it. Then he started being really nice and sweet and went to work. I havent said my piece yet because I don't know what to say. Very often what would happen is it will just get left and add to the mountain of resentment, which is a permanent fixture in our front room and has a lovely decorative elephant on top of it.
How bad is it really? Thank you, if you've managed to get this far
It all sounds pretty miserable, really.
He seems to have completely checked out of family life and is using work as an excuse.
I think given his selfishness, horribleness, lying, porn use, bad sex life and disengagement, you would not be overreacting to ask him to leave for a while.
It sounds as if he is very selfish. Beyond that, not sure tbh. Would he consider relationship counselling or is just a non-issue for him cos he gets to live the life he wants, while you don't...
No you aren't overreacting. Basically he is limiting your life through his selfishness. His life has barely changed (other than in fact he is seeing even less of you than before). The fact that you are trying to work, look after your DS and do all the housework, I am presuming, is just not on. He has one job.
He also sounds like he is a bit of an arse with his work colleagues too.
If you feel like packing his bags, do it. It certainly doesn't sound like you'd be worse off. What is bringing to your relationship and your DS?
You don't paint a pretty picture here OP.
It is not normal behaviour for a new father to be selfish, unsupportive and porn addicted. You seem to imply that this was just to be expected.
He sounds like a bigamist with all that time spent away from home. I know this isn't just about the money but with all the hours worked, please tell me you and DS see some of it. I'm sorry OP but his priorities sound skewed.
Why are you with this selfish and detached man ?
I am sure you could do better than this.
TBF he's brilliant with DS. That's the reason we are all still here really. DS just loves his daddy.
He thinks he's a new man, he's being nicer to me when he is here, he's being more helpful. But to me, this is just a basic level of a relationship. I think after our troubles, I expected an amazing amount if effort and for us to be happy.
He says things will improve on their own when DS is older. Whenever I try to talk about our old troubles he says I am being unfair to bring it up. He's said sorry and that should be that. I have a lot of unresolved issues though. My confidence in the bedroom is zero but I can't talk about it because its "unfair".
Maybe I will suggest counselling. I really don't know how to have that conversation though. I feel a bit paralysed by it all.
Yeah, I deal with the money. I know he's working when he says he is. I'm in the same field. Im not worried he's having an affair or anything.
When he's here, he does t seem detached. Infact, I feel guilty lately for not feeling like returning his affection or advances.
If you have been readijng any relationships threads, you will see that when you can find nothing good to say about a bloke, the recognised fallback is "but is is a good dad"
well, good dads don't treat their children's mother as if she is an afterthought and prioritise porn over a warm and loving sex life
he can still be a "good dad" when not in this sham "relationship" with you (and you are likely to meet someone much, much better during one of his access times)
He's not brilliant. He's never fucking there!
He's already the Disney parent. Might as well make it official and get a life for yourself too that doesn't involve trying to fix someone who doesn't want to be fixed.
How can he be a brilliant father? He isn't ever there, he watches porn and treats the mother of his child like shit. When has he ever put you and your DS first?
How brilliant can he be?
He barely knows your child and is no kind of parent.
Parents of toddlers DO stuff to take care of them.
They spend more than 50 evenings a year at home if they can.
Seriously, he sounds like a lousy parent.
EllieInTheRoom it sounds like you know that this is totally unreasonable behaviour. A relationship and parenthood should be supportive and shared.
Ask yourself honestly, is this the type of relationship/father to your child that you would like? I wouldn't stand for it in a million years. It is really hard to accept that a relationship should end, but can you see this situation lasting for years into the future? Are you happy now? Will it be better then?
No-one can make the decision for you. But you either have a very painful future with him or cutting him loose. I have mulled over leaving DH many many times and I really understand better the devil you know.
Sounds fucking lonely and hard, op
I think it's time you told him to leave as its not really a loving, supportive relationship. It's you being a housekeeper, nanny, cook and working on top of it all!
Oh, and what scallops said.
I know what you're saying, and believe me I am not one to blindly defend him. He would always spend an hour or so with DS in the morning. Sometimes, he would take an afternoon off to spend with him but go to work in the evenings. Or he'd nip home for an hour. He never took time off for me though, so no brownie points there.
if I thought DS would be unaffected and wouldn't miss him, it would make it easier. But he would.
I'm not afraid of being on my own. Im afraid of being selfish and unfair. Despite his selfishness, he plays the part of a nice man. He says he loves his family and all the things. But it's his actions. He honestly thinks he's doing it all rut now though and I just wonder if I'm holding a grudge?
He's not there because he doesn't want to be . Ltb.
My DH was never there when the DC were small. He literally worked 12 hour days, 7 days a week. We did it as a partnership. He, however, was not deeply into porn and never made me feel like shit. But being there and doing bathtime doesn't necessarily make a father a good and loving father.
I feel like I want him to go but it will be just be made out that its because he is working this week. And he has already smoothed over that and forgotten about it.
I feel silly.
His crap fathering is unforgiveable, in my opinion. He has quite simply avoided spending any sustained periods of time at home in order to get out of the work that's involved with a baby.
Plus, he's a porn hound who denied you a sex life for 20 months because of it.
You said his behaviour 'is like many others' and I think that's wrong. It is however like many completely selfish men's behaviour when there's a newborn in the house. But he's not like most decent fathers and men and the point is, he's not good enough in any department.
...and that is how he meant you to feel
You are being yanked about by a manipulator. You can make it stop, if you want to.
There has been a couple of incidents lately where I have strongly disagreed with how he has treated strangers. He was mean to an elderly driver and someone in a bar. It made me not like him.
I think he is completely oblivious to. He unhappy I am and it would be a massive shock for him so I wonder if I owe it to him and DS to spell it out first. But I am worried about having that conversation.
He sounds like a proper wanker this bloke. He also seems to have somehow lowered the bar quite dramatically in terms of your own expectations of what a decent partner should behave like. The upside to all this, of course, is that you are quite capable of bringing your child up alone - you've shown that in DS' first year as you had little help from this fuck-wad. Now all you need to do is kick the fucker out.
Why ? Will he punish you for stating your boundaries ? If so, all the more reason to do it.
Why are you worried about having that conversation Ellie?
Massively under-reacting. He should have been booted out long ago.
I feel like I want him to go but it will be just be made out that its because he is working this week
Good. Because, actually, that is the reason.
He was disrespectful to you. Like he always is.
Im not sure why. I am actually usually quite a big personality but I am really rubbish at confrontation. I just hate the thought of saying something hurtful and I never saay it right.
Whenever we talk, I always feel like he is right and I am being unfair. Even if I was so sure before. he asks me for examples of his bad behaviour and in the heat of the moment I forget. He plays the victim very well.
Last time we had a big row, he pushed me against the wall and said he would go if I wanted him to, but he will never go. I will have to kick him out and I will have to break up the family.
That's the one thing I don't want responsibility for. I don't know why. I'd almost just prefer it if he did something so awful I could just get rid. rather then working all week.
Your choice then, I guess. Live with it and STFU. Or do something to change it. Because he isn't going to.
Although, tbh, any man that pushed me against a wall would be history. Your children are getting some very damaging lessons here, from this "good father" and you are reinforcing them, sorry.
He's done several awful things.
But your bar is so low it's on the floor.
Just take responsibility for ending the relationship. But you aren't responsible for 'breaking up the family'.
How would you handle it then? Pack his bag?
I might have worded some of my comments wrong, made it sound like I wasn't going to do anything. I didn't mean that, I was trying to express what my fears are and what has held me back until now.
I know what I want to do, but I have no idea how. How to assert myself. or before posting this, whether I was just overreacting
One thing that really leapt out for me is the fact that you were effectively expected to drop your knickers then and there to reward him for being a slightly less absentee parent than usual for a couple of weeks. Is that normally how he approaches sex- just click his fingers and expect you to be up for it, rather than try to, y'know, actually get you in the mood for it? Between that, the porn and the 20-month drought it's no wonder your sexual confidence has taken a battering.
Am I right in thinking you have your own work that you have to try to fit in as and when you can, half an hour here and there while your son naps and the rest after he's gone to bed and you're absolutely exhausted? Do you have any formal childcare in place for your son to allow you to focus on your work- or, indeed, just spend the odd morning or afternoon doing whatever the hell you fancy? If your DH works so many hours, there's the money coming in to pay for it and YOUR TIME deserves to be taken more seriously than it currently is.
I'd almost just prefer it if he did something so awful I could just get rid
He has done something awful. Lots of things actually. What do you want him to do, punch you, hurt your child? What would be awful enough?
None of those fairnuff and I don't think he would do anything like that to give me a reason to be honest. I just mean in terms of a huge row I suppose. It never gets to that. If we disagree, he goes silent and then pretends it hasnt happened. If I get frustrated and shout, he refuses to argue. I know this sounds ridiculous, but I almost think it would be easier for me to say "get out" in the heat of the moment rather then sit down to talk as I find it so difficult. I never get through.
The one where he pushed me was most the mot heated we have ever been. And the only argument like that We have ever had. It was weird, all my resolve just seemed to go when that happened.
I know I'm not making any sense at all now and probably just sound really stupid. Im just making myself even more confused
It's okay to say quietly and calmly that you've been doing a lot of thinking, have been unhappy for so long now and have decided you're not compatible as partners or parents and so you'd like to separate.
This is the normal way to separate, not as a result of a blazing row.
fetch thanks for your comment
DS goes to nursery three days a week. I am freelance so sometimes this is enough and sometimes it is a struggle. OH is insistent he is too young to do any more days though, which was a big reason for my demand he is around more
Re sex - no it's not very romantic at all anymore. We have gone from me trying it on and him rejecting me for so long to the other way round. He does t try very often but when he does he suggests it rather then trying to seduce me in a loving way
Fuck, the more I write, the more I think what the hell am I doing. I must be completely barking
Google "stonewalling" love
It is a well recognised form of emotional abuse, designed to make you STFU and maintain the status quo. Which you appear to be very unhappy about.
You don't sound stupid. You sound like someone who needs some help to procss how you are feeling, as it seems you have been stifling those feelings for some time. Sweeping them under the carpet is not working for you, nor should it.
He's never pushed you before? Then he is escalating isn't he. He tested you, to see if you would allow it. If you do, he will escalate some more.
I think you know what to do in your heart of hearts but you're asking us to try to get you out of doing the inevitable. Some men have a great way of making themselves sound reasonable even though what they're doing is wrong. My dh does that so I have to be very aware of the facts! For him To push you into a wall, watch porn, never there etc. I don't think you have to find excuses, just state you're unhappy in your relationship, you have been for a long time and ask for time apart. The fact you have to make an agreement for him to spend time with you is completely ridiculous and that's all you state. I think he is making you feel very low and has ground you down a bit to be honest. Good luck with any decision you make x
If you find it hard to verbalise it, why not write him a letter OP. You would just need to condense some of the stuff you have outlined here, plus any more ways he has basically behaved like a tit. Life really is too short to waste on people like this. You will be middle aged before you know it. Reading what you have written here, he really does sound quite an odious character.
When you say he pushed you against the wall, do you mean physically?
The push was a few months ago, since then any disagreement we have just gets swept away. If I complain about anything, I just get the eye roll, the "here we go again" as though I'm a nag.
Im actually a very positive person but he has started telling me how negative I am and I wonder if its true. Im reading through my comments to see if I have exaggerated anything or twisted anything but I haven't.
OK, I just need to think about the next step.
Thanks lisy although I really need
A letter might be a good idea, or maybe I could say things better in counselling if I ask for that
Yes, it was physically
The push was a few months ago, since then any disagreement we have just gets swept away
There you go then. He pushed you and you did nothing about it. He knows that he can literally push you around. He will keep doing this and it will get worse.
He sounds horrible love and like he views you as an encumbrance to the wonder that is him
It's a very slippery slope that never ends well, particularly if you start modifying your behaviour so that he never "pushes" you again.
I think maybe I have subconsciously done that. since that argument, although if something happens I will voice my displeasure, I tend to just leave it after that.
I don't feel afraid. Maybe ive not been ready to force the issue, I don't know. I'm probably right where he wants me aren't I
What a cheeky bastard!! Well I effing well won't be. Just need to figure out my next move. steel myself and stop being a wimp
Him not you btw anyfucker
Yay ! A bit of spirit !
To be serious though, please stay safe. We may be wrong here, but I sense a man that may escalate the "physical" side because so far it seems to have worked for him. Men like this being creatures of habit, they don't take it too well when the worm starts to turn.
Don't put yourself at risk. Take a step back if anything, and start watching his actions (not words) with the critical eye they deserve.
I will, thanks for the advice
My ExP was like this, totally checked out while I did everything for DS. Made out I was an unreasonable nag for wanting him to help/spend time with us. Blamed me for being a nag, made me feel like someone I'm not. He used to get aggressive when I pleaded for him to be home with us.
When DS was 8mo I asked him to leave.
I've never regretted it. You sound lovely and I don't think you're overreacting. FWIW Ds is 5, gets on great with his dad and life is much better now. He also has to make time for DS when he has him by himself.
Take the power back! Take care. Xx
He's already escalated to the physical.
Pushing someone up against the wall is violent and meant to intimidate.
There is no reason to think that someone who would do that wouldn't use any other kind violence against you.
Where the equality, where is the team work, where is the friendship, these are all basics for a good relationship so you are hardly asking for the world. Sounds like he's never home and it's not even out of necessity but choice. He dismisses your unhappiness as not important. I think he knows you won't do or go anywhere, it's about time he got a little shock of what you are actually about.
I read the last couple of comments and I immediately thought "oh no, I've exaggerated it, he is at home enough, I've been unfair" but then I looked through the calendar and he has been home two days a week since my rules and taken an extra day off. But god, it's felt like much more because I was used to not having him here, and he actually drives me potty. Careful what you wish for eh!
but teamwork and friendship are pretty absent i would say. We get on well sometimes but we had a rare night out last month and it really was awful. He ruined it by complaining about every place we went to and wanting to go home early, but bought me a bottle of champagne, probably so I couldn't moan.
Last night he came home and I was sleeping in the spare room, he didnt question it as I had already said I was going to because he has a cold and blows his nose ridiculously loudly about ten times a night. I don't intend to move back to our bed though.
When this week is out of the way and I have hit my deadlines, I will say what I need to say.
This morning he felt badly done too because I wasn't paying his illness any attention. But then he thanked me for being a "wonderful mother to DS" before he left. Then MIL turned up to drop something off and started banging on about how hard he works.
I want to vom!!
Thanks for the support x
thanks misty, glad it worked out OK for you x
It doesn't matter a jot how wonderful others perceive him, read your post, it's not pleasant, you don't seem to get any support of him at all, ever.
If he can't give you the basics then you are never going to be happy with the situation and the elephant will be back time and time again.
Does he actually have a clue that it's you that is keeping the family unit together and doing all the work too, big deal, he goes to work, that's about all his contribution to family life is.
I hope you can get through to him, you shouldn't have to ask for your partner to actually be your partner.
Ellie I used to think that if only I explained things in the right way he would get it, and stop doing various things. I spent 20 yrs doing it. He never did get it, or he did, but he didn't want to change. He had a nice life whilst mine was a bit shit...ringing any bells?
XMIL was good at saying how hard all her boys worked. The dils all worked, but what we did was irrelevant, cos we had no willy...all the boys have a love/hate relationship with her, and carry that power struggle into their relationships. There was even a power struggle over what we called the remote control for the tv.... Fortunately, he is someone else's
arsehole DH now...
So Ive decided to revisit this thread, because it helped me a lot and I feel like I need re-validating if that makes sense.
We've just got back from a three day holiday. We booked it earlier in the year and it was supposed to be time away, just the two of us, to reignite the flame. However, my DM, who was supposed to be babysitting, recently fell and injured her back so we took DS with us at the last minute.
I was very apprehensive as when we went on holiday in the summer there was an awful argument the night before we set off. OH had been working until late and I had had a very big day at work. Stressful but also hugely exciting. it meant when he got home I was still knee deep in laundry trying to pack. He was horrible because he had wanted to go straight to bed and made me cry a lot. All the excitement of the day and the holiday completely disappeared. He spent the entire week saying how it was the best holiday ever but I just felt numb.
Sure enough on Monday night, OH arrived home from work and I was still trying to get organised. I gave him the job of printing off the tickets and he couldn't work the printer. Cue lots of huffing and puffing and an atmosphere.
The entire three days were peppered with tensions. He refused to set the alarm as early as I wanted and we nearly missed the flight. On one of the nights, DS's milk fell out of the bag and exploded all over the hotel lobby which was of course my fault. I apparently let him have his dummy too much (he was very tired and I didn't want him to be crying for it in the restaurant when I felt it was unnecessary). That argument was repeated a lot. He felt we were spending too much. An argument over what food to get DS. An argument because when we stopped to get DS an ice cream I wanted one too but he didn't want me to because we would be having dinner shortly. I could go on.
The big one though was because he had arranged to work a shift tonight when we got back. He told me this morning that he would have to go straight there from the airport. That meant he took the car and me and DS had to get the train home.
When I protested he said he had no choice, we are not saving any money at the moment as I have had a few (temporary) glitches with my business during the summer and he "is going to have to work until he is 90". The upshot of it is that I am the arsehole for arguing with him about it.
To be honest, I have come to terms with the fact that the big thing I am waiting for, the excuse to leave, is never going to happen. I am always going to be made to feel like the arsehole. I don't mind any more. I now have to figure out a few financial things and then I can go. I am worried it is going to take a long time though as I feel I have a bit of a financial obligation towards him. I know I will be seen as the selfish one when I leave, I can cope with that but I don't want to be accused of being a money grabber as well.
Please tell me though that our holiday is not what would happen in a normal relationship? I know taking a toddler on a mini break is stressful and could cause a few squabbles, but surely this wasn't normal?
Sorry for such a long post
Not a normal holiday at all in fact it sounds positively hellish to be honest. The taking of the car at the airport is just so unbelievably selfish.
Get your shit together sort your finances and get out of there. In fact get HIM out of there.
Perhaps get to see a solicitor for some legal advice before you say anything to him but whatever you do get rid of him
He is not going to change--and he is NOT a good dad. A good dad would not treat the mother of his DS is such a way, would want to spend a whole lot of time with his DS not just an hour here and there and who would make sure his DS got home safely from holiday anad not leave him to get a taxi and no doubt all the luggage home
He had a go at you because you wanted an ice cream? On holiday?
You don't need an excuse to leave him. You don't need validation from us. He's making you extremely unhappy and he knows that - and he doesn't care. Personally I think he is having an affair, or several affairs. But it's neither here nor there. I think you should plough ahead with those plans to leave x
It sounds like you don't even like each other any more. He went straight to work from the airport and left you to get public transport ? I have never heard the like !
I don't believe he went to the work at all, however.
You sound very unhappy and that is all the reason you need to end it.
I too think he is having an affair/s.
I know how it sounds. And I would be thinking the same thing and I have questioned whether I am being naive. But I know his work, I know the people he works with as I do that work myself, it's part of my business. So I know he is at work.
Ive done the snooping, there is no affair. Im sure of it. Part of me would like there to be as horrible as that sounds. You know I have been looking for a reason.
I dont understand it myself.
Most of the time, I think he cannot love me because of the way he acts. But for example on holiday, we would have one of these rows. It will be swept under the carpet, then he will start joking around, try and kiss or cuddle me and wonders why I can't do the same. So then it's me being the unreasonable, unforgiving one. That's what confuses the hell out of me and makes me feel like I am wrong. Like I've imagined it all.
It's by the by. I will go. I'm thinking about the financial side. It's not like we are poor but he feels we should have a bigger pot of savings for various reasons and it is my fault it has diminished over the last year. I feel like I have to make sure I leave him with a certain amount so he can't say I've spent all his money. It's complicated. I feel like I need advice in that side of things really. Maybe I'll write it down.
Not quite spelt, he went to order DS one, I asked him to get me a scoop, he returned with just the one for DS saying I wasn't getting one because we were having dinner later. I was boiling mad, he always tries to control me like that, and I didn't want to let him get away with it. Row ensued. Low and behold, I'm the deranged woman-child who had a strop because she couldn't have an ice cream!
The ice cream row sounds so ridiculously petty, I am almost ashamed to complain about it given there are so many women on here with actually really horrible things happening to them!
Ice cream-gate is just an illustration of his contempt for you
Perhaps the time has come to seek legal advice. Your way forward may look clearer when you know what is what.
Yeah I think so too. Although I am not if it would help me with my financial dilemma. It's more of a moral one.
Basically, the savings pot is all his from the sale of a house. We rent at the moment. The proceeds from the sale went towards paying off joint debts and then the rest into a savings account which we were supposed to be adding to this year. But things haven't gone to plan and they have depleted. I haven't been completely honest with him how much as money has always caused big arguments. I am to blame for a lot of it as my business struggled in the summer. To be honest, I just thought i didn't need to tell him all of it because by the end of the year it should be back up to the right amount.
I realise I've been stupid and a dishonest too. But it makes me worry about leaving straight away as I would have to admit it.
I'm in a bit of a hole. I feel awful about it
To be clear, I haven't been stealing, but I look after all the finances, our accounts are joint and when we have been short because we haven't been getting paid on time, I've used the money we did have and not told him all the time
Ah. Yes, you will have to come clean, love. See a solicitor. Don't let it be the reason for you to stay with someone who makes you unhappy. Any costs to him can be offset, with correct legal advice. I am sure you will feel better if you consult an expert.
Yeah, you're right. Again AF!!
If we got a divorce he wouldn't be able to walk away with the full pot anyway would he. Im pretty sure my motivation and work has been affected by all this anyway, I actually think my earnings would go up if we split anyway. I'd have more freedom to work.
Right onwards and upwards. although there may be another blip and I'll have to come back whingeing again.
Thanks to everyone for your input
Ha, you just made me cry with your virtual flowers! X
The icecream thing is NOT petty.
Honestly, it's incredibly out of order for one adult to tell the other adult that they are not allowed to have an icecream.
He treats you horribly and he just expect you to accept his shitty treatment and then be grateful when he decides to be nice.
That is because he has an abusive personality and he is seeking to control you.
Rather less successfully than he might like (so far), but he's really doing his best.
You don't owe him ANYTHING financially or morally.
Your business didn't do as well as you thought - that's life, it's how things work when you work for yourself.
Just get away from him as quickly as you can.
He's a violent, controlling bully and he's not going to get any better.
There's no ice cream icon! I want to send you ice cream.
I'm glad you're working all this out, OP, and it can't be easy. Just wanted to agree with others that all finances will be on the table with the solicitors, so it's no reason at all to stay with a man who makes you feel bad about yourself.
All the best. [ice cream]
Thanks join you've just fired me up a little bit more. Yes, the abusive twunt! Right, I feel like I can tackle this a bit better now, I'm glad I revived the thread tonight.
Next step, legal stuff. Then, give him the heave-ho.
I'll be back
Got it name thanks, I'll eat it just before dinner tomorrow. That'll really piss him off
Got it name thanks, I'll eat it just before dinner tomorrow. That'll really piss him off
Actual LOLs here!
You'll be so much better off without this prick trying to pick you apart.
Have an icecream/wine float
Floats. Remember them ? I used to have dandelion and burdock floats from the icecream van.
Oooh, yes an icecream and prosecco float!
I'll join you in one of those tomorrow just before dinner time
A pre-dinner ice cream and prosecco float would send him over the edge. Count me in!
If dinner is usually 7pm, sit down with your float at 6:50
Joking aside, do please stay safe x
Need strength and help. I was going to keep quiet for a couple of weeks but a row earlier ended up in me saying everything. That for me, it's over.
He's like a rabbit in the headlamps. He's ill and been to the loo a lot. He says there's nothing he can say or do, he's obviously a twat but he's not leaving.
Then DS woke up and I took him out. Now H and DS are playing while I clean. We are going to have resume the conversation when he goes to bed.
I need to keep resolve and not feel guilty it's made him ill that's what always happens. How do I start it off again. he'd be quite happy to not talk again today i know it.
Im not able to leave myself yet, it would be about a month before I am ready I think. I really want him to go, but he's just not going to is he. Shit, me a d my big mouth!
Don't feel guilty that he's making himself sick to manipulate you into feeling guilty.
If he was in any way genuinely upset or sorry, he wouldn't be refusing to leave.
OP don't worry . You have already said everything. Keep the talking to a minimum, tell him you are going to file for divorce and will be seeing a solicitor. That if he really cared he would do the decent thing and get out. Sleep in the spare room, go out tomorrow then solicitors Monday. If your safety is threatened at any point ring 999. Good luck OP.
DS in bed, H offered to make tea and has been sat on sofa watching telly and acting normal. This is weird. Room is crammed with elephants.
You are up to your ears with trunky things. Bide your time and make a bee line for the solicitors.
Oh he is AWFUL. The ice cream thing is really bad, as it goes.
He will just stonewall you now and pretend you never said you wanted him to leave. Be prepared for that shit.
Wishing you lots of strength x
I was dreading a showdown tonight but actually handywoman you're right, I don't need to do I. If he wants to play it like this, he can. He knows how I feel and if wont leave, fine, I will.
I can't for a few weeks but I will move into the spare room and carry on as normal until I can go with DS.
He did say, there was nothing he can do and nothing he can say, so there isnt a lot else to argue about is there. he can't honestly think I'll just stay
I just hate this victim act, you should have seen him with DS today, honestly, it was like he was up for an award
Thanks for the strength reality
Oh and I would just love that glass of wine but there's only either a bottle of champagne or a bottle of Buck's Fizz (no idea how old that is). neither seem appropriate
I was married to low-level abusive STBXH for fourteen years
I kicked him out.
His view: there is. 'no point in discussing it' (ever the victim)
This may happen to you.
If there is no access to wine IRL deffo have this
So you never talked about it? It just ended?
I said earlier that there is no way he loves me, he can't. He said how dare I project my feelings onto him. So he loves me so much he's not even prepared to talk about it and try and resolve it? It's just very weird.
But im cramp at confrontation anyway so this might actually suit me. Nothing more to say. Lets go
I'm starting to feel excited!
Oh yes and join I used an excellent line from one of your posts during the discussion today - that thing you said about him being horrible and then I'm expected to be grateful when he's nice. It hit the nail right on the head
I told STBXH I was sick of trying so hard, that he was miserable and burdened and un-invested with the kids and that he was miserable and nothing made him happy. I literally spewed 10 years of emotional toil and pain and frustration from the bottom of my heart.
He complained that he 'never intended to be intimidating' and 'doesn't like taking the Hoover upstairs'
which I put down to 'shock on his part' (see? There I was justifying it still...)
Then he left at my request, tail between legs.
Now says there is 'nothing to say' WTF
Sometimes saying nothing says a lot.
Yes that exactly what I said, its not just about what happened yesterday or last week or week before, I was letting him have it for the last three years of bollocks.
Your story sounds so similar, I've tried to make him happy but I can't, he's a miserable person. I think he has a different standard of happiness. he thought our holiday was great???! WTF?
He's gone to bed. I've found a beer. Could murder a cigarette right now
And what on earth did the Hoover have to do with it?
The Hoover reference was in relation to his sense of entitlement re housework ie he did barely anything around the house yet complained constantly about untidiness and could never lift a finger without a miserable cloud of anger/frustration descending. And he thought that if he tidied a room any subsequent playing or toys in the room was some sort of personal affront to him.
He made the Hoover comment during my diatribe regarding a decade of crapness. I spilled my emotional guts to him and he responded by saying he hates taking the Hoover upstairs!
Whatever you say to him there will always be 'a reason'. STBXH came out with 'a reason' when he made our daughter cry as she hung up her Xmas stocking.
You may be right about different expectations. The only 'reason' worth listening to is that this relationship is simply not good enough for you.
WOW!! He's just come downstairs and asked if I'm coming to bed? WTF? I'm now starting to wonder if I wasn't clear enough. But what's unclear about "I don't love you, it's over"?
I think this has got the potential to get really messy
"But what's unclear about "I don't love you, it's over"?"
It's not clarity that was lacking for him, it was authority.
You DON'T GET to say it's over.
He calls the shots, so he is perfectly within his rights to ignore things you say that don't suit his agenda.
Please try and remember who is in charge here. Hint: not you ;)
I was shocked and I just said no. I should have said "no, I'm sleeping in the spare room" but I didn't, it was totally unexpected and then he disappeared straight back upstairs.
I think maybe I go to bed in the spare room he'll come and ask why and that will be when the "talk" starts again. So I probably haven't got away with it
That must be it join. It's quite unhinged really
That'll be why he hasn't seen fit to discuss it tonight, he's said he's not leaving and that's that
He will come and start an argument if I go to bed in the spare room because he hates that. That was the reason we had the blazing row a few months back where he pushed me.
Hmmmmm, not feeling quite as relaxed now
Anywhere else you can go? Anyone IRL who knows what's going on? Can you fake falling asleep in front of telly?
DS is in bed so I can't go anywhere really. I think maybe I'm being a bit too irrational to wake him and take him somewhere. I can if I get really worried though.
I think falling asleep in front of TV is probably best
There was an incident with an ex of his, they split up and she slept in the spare room for a few weeks, she shagged his best friend and there was a massive fallout. She woke up one night to him bashing her round the head with a pillow.
I know a push and a pillow fight are hardly big DV incidents, but it makes me a bit uneasy I must admit
Stay safe OP. You can consider your options tomorrow.
He's emotionally abusing you :-( I'm glad u have found the courage to ltb !!! He's a twunt of the highest order and you will feel liberated when you have ur own place! Basically you have been a single mother because he's hardly there so the caring side to ur ds won't change! You will just have your own home and eat as much ice cream as u want!!! Some
Good advice here!! Keep that courage :-)
If he pushes you or bashes you with anything then that's assault and you should call the police. You don' t have to share a bed with a man because you fear he will attack you otherwise.
Sounds to me like he hasn't got with the post-baby programme. I would have a go at counselling before splitting. If he refuses to go, then he leaves you with no alternative, really.
You would seriously have counciling with a person who pushes u around? Ok if that's what u will do :-(
I would be more likely to consider counselling if he did agree to go phoolani but as he is refusing to acknowledge my feelings and has done for three years, he can go and get some himself. He needs it. Thanks for your input
He's just called down again for me to come to bed. I'm not going
"I know a push and a pillow fight are hardly big DV incidents"
You can't seriously be calling what he did to his ex girlfriend a "pillow fight"?
Are you joking?
He walked into her room uninvited while she was asleep and assaulted her and you are happy to call that a pillow fight?
I'm actually frightened to know what this "push" consisted of if that's what you call a pillow fight.
I have pillow fights with my daughters. We make space in the living room and bash each other around the place and laugh our heads off.
What he did is NOTHING like a pillow fight.
I don't mean to be mean, but come on, Ellie. This is bullshit.
Why are you letting him set the terms on everything?
You need to get out of there as soon as you can.
Please be careful.
Is he hoping for sex, Ellie?
Yeah the term pillow fight was too flippant. I cant really explain why i was bein flippant. i think i meant that a push and being hit with a pillow are not things that would necessarily cause you injury or things I'd usually be frightened of. But they do make me uneasy and worry me even so. And that in itself makes me feel weak, I mean I'm the same size as him and no shrinking violet I shouldn't be scared of him pushing me or using a pillow?
I don't think so handy our sex life has been really quite nonexistent for a long time really.
But I know from previous arguments that sleeping in the spare room is something he really doesn't like the idea of.
People have been smothered with pillows while they sleeping and someone came into their room.
To attack someone who is a asleep with a pillow is really fucking scary.
So yes, you should be afraid.
NEVER feel silly for being afraid.
It your instinct telling you that there is something to be frightened of.
And from what you've written here, to me it sounds like your instinct is spot on.
Oh, and I suspect you were flippant because you have been told this story as if it were no big deal.
How do you even know about this?
Please, please stay safe.
Just because you aren't a shrinking violet doesn't mean you aren't at risk from someone who seeks to control you and is prepared to use physical force against you. Which he is.
My Ex was exactly the same. We would have conversations, such difficult conversations for me, and he would behave the next day as if everything was hunky dory. I really began to doubt my sanity.
He is still the same, thankfully though he is now my Ex so the damage he can do is limited.
Please be careful.
He came down and asked me why I wasn't going to bed an I told him I wouldn't be and why. He asked if I really wanted him to leave and when I said yes, he stood there for a while with his fists clenched and I got nervous or a minute. But then he just turned and went.
He went to DS's room and sobbed for a minute, but then he went.
Don't know what to feel now
Can totally understand why you feel on edge re the spare room. Guess you'll have to play by ear then tomorrow insist it's spare room from tomorrow night onwards until he moves out. Stand firm. But for now keep yourself safe.
One step at a time now op!!! Have the time to think!!! You know in ur heart he needed to go x
OMG Ellie are you ok? Did he drive off? What a shock. I would suggest a glass if brandy but I know you haven't any! Take yourself off to bed , it sounds like he has got the message.
I heard about the pillow attack shortly after it happened. We were in the same circle if friends. To be honest, people sympathised with him because of the situation. It wouldn't have suited the group dynamic to think of his ex as an innocent victim I suppose. I didn't have the nouse or experience to go against the grain.
When we got together a year later, he spoke about it once with great shame. I loved him, I forgot about it until recently
Thanks. And thanks everyone for all your support tonight. I really needed it
Please make sure he cant come back in, lock the doors!
Well done for getting him to go.
At least you've got through to him.
Just finished reading the thread and I had very similar goings on in my recently ended relationship. Looking back, there were so many wrong things, but not one catalyst. What the other posters have said is so true - that the relationship not being good enough for you is a good enough reason. As soon as my relationship ended, I felt like a huge weight had lifted from my shoulders as I did not have to rely on someone unreliable, if that makes sense? My children also seem much happier as they are not surrounded by a layer of tension and unhappiness. Will be thinking of you, enjoy moving on!!
He came back ten minutes later satin he wanted to talk. He begged, pleaded and cried. I don't understand how he can react so strongly when he has been so passive about me for so long.
He is now in the other room sobbing. Really crying. And I feel awful. I don't want to try again. He keeps saying it isn't over. I keep saying it is.
God this is hard
He then went into DS room and got him out of bed And was sat in the chair in the corner of the room sobbing over him. I didn't want to be cruel but I had to tell him to put him down. How is that a good thing for DS?
He called me a cold bitch. Then started begging again and kept trying to kiss me.
He's calm now. I agreed to lie on the bed for a while and let him hold me so he would stop sobbing.
I'm shocked at his reaction. My stomach just aches. I wish I could call someone
Ellie, I don't know what to say. Sounds like he never expected you to do this, he was complacent and thought you would always put up with it.
How selfish to get your ds out of bed at this hour!
What do you think would happen if you said he could stay and you could try again? I think he would become complacent again very quickly.
Please be careful. I am not sure he won't hurt you.
And "cold bitch"? Please .
As if none of this has had anything to do with the way he has behaved.
He would definitely become complacent I think. It's not going to happen. I've been thinking of telling him I'll think about it so he will stop beggin and let me get some sleep. Then tomorrow, I'll either leave or get help to get him to leave.
I think I'm safe. He did keep trying to kiss me though which I found really strange. I kept telling him to stop. I thought if he did it one more time I would tell him I would call the police because he was frightening me, but then he didn't do it again.
He's calmed down now but he is not accepting anything I say. I've stopped saying it. But I still mean it
No idea why my predictive text keeps leaving the g's off my words
Do you want to consider ringing the police? His behaviour - waking DS, insisting that you sleep in bed with him - is bizarre and kinda scary. Where is he and where are you?
I hope you are OK Ellie.
I came on to check on you before I leave for work, because I was worried.
I can't say I find what happened very reassuring.
Stay strong, stay safe.
You are doing really well.
He's an abuser.
Contact women's aid asap for advice on how to get out safely.
Don't even consider going to counselling with him.
If it helps you to leave him, his behaviour is strongly pointing at an affair.
Do not let this emotional abuse continue. It is ultimatum time. Either he goes today, or you do.
Thank you all so much for your concern. Join im so sorry you felt worried but thanks. I fell asleep about 4am. In bed with him. I could kick myself for not staying awake and getting out of bed, but I'd not had much sleep the two previous nights for various reasons and I was beginning to cry out if tiredness.
He's still in bed and will leave for work at 11am
I'm really apprehensive about today. I'm worried about how impossible it is to get through to him and how he obviously intends just to wear me down. But on the other hand I will feel like the cruelest thing if I tell him he's worrying me and to just get out. I feel so torn.
My parents are on holiday. At the ripe old age of 30i just really want my mum
Ellie, pack his things, take them somewhere he can get them and don't let him in after his work. Change locks or put some bolts on from the inside.
Don't let him get to the point when you have do doubt this is DV.
At the risk of sounding stupid please tell me what about it is DV?
I know the push was but that was months ago and i didnt do anything then. I know what he did to his ex was, I knew it was even when I called it a pillow fight.
Last night was weird and it disturbed me, but how can I call it DV?
Well that's what I mean, he's pushed you around once physically when his arguments had run out (and tbf I would have kicked him out then), and he's pushing you around emotionally all the time.
I mean don't wait for him to lose his temper and push you down the stairs. You don't need an "incident" to kick him out, this man maked you very unhappy, get rid.
Last night I was worried about you. Last night disturbed you because you told him to go and he didn't.
He really doesnt see you or Ds as whole people. Or are just bit players in the drama of Him. He thinks he can just make you do whatever her needs you to.
Making you lie next to him has made me feel physically sick, it is so very far from 'normal'. You have been well trained by him.
After I left my first marriage, it took me up to a year to recognise some of it as abuse. I kept having all these awful realisations. Stuff I'd thought of at the time as innocuous or everyday cane clattering into my head again as I saw it for the twisted abuse it was.
He is abusing you, and he us a violent man. The pillow thing is really fucking scary.
Darling, it's DV, or abuse if you prefer, because he's forcing you to behave in a way you don't want to. He's not letting you tell him to leave, he's assaulting you by trying to kiss and cuddle you, he's abusing your son by making him get up in the middle of the night.
He's not allowing you to make choices. People who aren't abusive or violent wouldn't ever force somebody to do or not do something.
Oh god, web you are things in other people's words they get starker don't they. I suppose when you live it, it's different and then when it's written down its bare facts.
Thanks. OK, I need to speak to someone in RL don't I. I'm just going to get through until he's gone to work and then call my sister and BF.
Thanks for all the advice, I'm so sorry if I'm being thick and offending anybody
That gobbledygook at the start of the last post was supposed to say when you see
I don't have much in the way of wisdom but reading that he made you lay on the bed so he could hold you made my blood run cold. Like Reality says, you and DS are just there at his whim, you're not individuals to him. He sounds very scary. My partner has never hurt a fly but I think I'd be terrified if I woke up to him bashing me with a pillow.
Can you and DS leave, today?
Oh love, this all sounds horrible, I'm really glad to see you will be teaching out to someone in rl.
Your ds will adjust if you split, he will, and if you're happier he will be too.
Sending you some virtual strength and a sneaky hug.
Yeah that's an option. I wanted to avoid it as my office is here and I have a deadline tomorrow. I'm not going to get my work done if I'm here or not though am I. I just need to wait until he's gone to work and then get Dsis round to help me decide best plan.
Thanks libertine need a sneaky hug!
Hope he's gone now and that you can gather your thoughts
Best plan would be to get the locks changed today, and get his stuff packed and outside the house for when he is due home. And your sis in to support you.
You need to be clear that it is over, and he is out. And you won't stand for his emotional abuse and sobbing over child to try and get you to feel sorry for him.
Don't feel bad for worrying me, I'm just letting you know that there are real people out here that care
I really hope he went to work as planned and that you have your sister over helping you to plan your next step.
EllieInTheRoom I feel for you. I have been through DV and abuse. I didn't see it at the time; I minimised events too, just as you were doing about the pushing against the wall incident.
Abuse is a pattern of behaviour; everything you have told shows a pattern of abuse, of controlling behaviour. I had all these signs too - The day he threw cups and glasses at myself and my son in the kitchen because he spent 4 hours with the alcoholic slut neighbour over the road (who he slept with while we were seperated). He was trying to make out that I was a jealous controlly bitch, because he knew that he shouldn't have spent 4 hours over there. He flipped out the next day too - and I didn't call it abuse. It took him throwing me down the stairs and stamping on my face for the relationship to end, for me to see the pattern, that it hadn't gone away, that he wasn't getting better, but worse.
So I understand how you might minimise the violent events. But it is a pattern, remember that. No event / comment /stonewall is isolated; it is all connected, all part of a strategy designed to control you, to keep him in hte control seat. The crying and lying on the bed crap is controlling behaviour. Imagine how you would deal with a toddler behaving like that! I bet as soon as he walked out the door, he was totally normal. They do that, it's so wierd how they do that, like the flip of a switch, and they are a different person.
Well done for getting this far. Stay strong you are doing amazingly!
To be parenting a toddler and running a business and getting to this place of strength and bravery. Well Done!
Hope your Dsis is there.
It is also a good idea to contact some friends, some good friends, & it can help if you can get someone to stay over. If your friends are giving you a lot of attention over the next few weeks, he is less likely to try anything wierd.
Good luck today, Ellie! Last night should be the last night you to ever spent under the same roof. You will quickly run out of energy, both with him emotionally wearing you down and through lack of proper sleep. If you cannot shift DH out of the house, can you and DS spend tonight at your Dsis' house?
Please note down anything he says or does that frightens you, any threats. If you're at all worried about your safety, please involve the police. You will want to have it on record.
JUst catching up on your thread, Ellie.
Remember you have every right to end your relationship. He does not need to agree. You can start taking formal steps any time you please.
Hope you're doing okay, Ellie. Light is at the end of the tunnel. xx
Sorry, I wanted to keep you all posted last night but by the time I got a minute to myself I could barely keep my eyes open. I even missed XFactor and Downton, which would only ever happen in the event of my own death or a marital breakdown!
Anyway, yesterday he went to work and my Dsis came. I was thinking of decamping to my parents while they are away but I gave my mum my key so she could give it to builders last week and for some ridiculous reason my Dsis didn't have one either.
We took the kids out to let them run around while discussing taking some of his clothes to his mums, when he called me to say he was already home!! He'd been sent home early from work because he keeps throwing up. Got back and he was a physical mess.
DS went to my sisters for tea and a sleepover and I stayed home in the spare room. I could have gone, I know I probably should have. But I just felt like I ought to. He spent the evening flitting between the toilet and at my feet begging me for another chance.
I've never been very good at saying no. I realise that's something I need to work on. It took all my strength to keep telling him no, it's over. So when he begged me not to leave straight away, I felt like that was something I could concede if that makes sense. I didn't feel threatened in any way last night.
I'm not giving him another chance. His reaction seems so extreme, I pity him and this may sound cruel but it's kind of making me more determined that I don't love him anymore.
He wants us to stay in the house until our lease is up next month. I've said I won't leave straight away but we are separated and we need to live like we are. When he has a day off, he can have a day with DS and I will go to work. If we are both at home for the evening, one of us has to go out.
I don't think this is an arrangement that can work or is healthy. I know I have done the wrong thing agreeing to this and I need to sort it out and I will.
He won't accept it's over, even though i keep saying it is. He is going to a counsellor but I have told him I am not going because there is no point. He wants to talk about his porn habit, his self pity and his general "the world is against me attitude". I've told him I am not responsible for his happiness, but he says I am the only thing that can make him happy. But I don't do I?
I can't believe his reaction. He hasn't acted like he cared about me for the entire three years of our marriage, he totally killed it.
I am worried about DS. He is nearly 20 months and is usually a very easy happy go lucky toddler and his speech is brilliant. He has his moments, as all toddlers do but yesterday and today, he was really difficult and cheeky. Very out of character. Could he already have picked up on things? I swore this would never affect him, but I've fallen at the first hurdle. It's day one and he's already effected.
I'm worried because he goes up to the next room in nursery this week. I don't want to unsettle him by moving him at the same time. But then keeping him here must be worse.
I've got to sort it out and stop being weak.
If you have got to the end of this post, I salute you.
I've just re-read my post, I've just gone and taken three steps forward and two steps back. I could scream at myself!
Ellie you must stay focused: you have done the most important bit: told him it's over and stuck you your boundary line. Separating is ALWAYS messy so give yourself a break. You will get there and your ds will be FINE!!! I for one salute YOU [flower] well done for swing things as they are. The details will sort themselves out bit by bit.
Ellie, it's understandable that you are getting something out of bearing witness to his "distress" when he has ignored your emotional needs for years.
It's not healthy though. And yes, all this angst and stretching out what is actually inevitable is not good for kids to live with.
I'm not here because I WANT to watch him crumble, I'm not getting anything out of it in that way at all.
I have slapped myself (mentally) for agreeing to still live here and not actually making the escape. TBH, I found it difficult to cause this much pain, despite all he's done really, and I caved.
I am refusing to discuss anything in front of DS but the atmosphere is tangible. He must be picking up on it. I think that's now what needs to be done. I need to say, the best thing for DS is if we get out of the toxicity. No point in staying anyway.
Hells bells. I feel like shit today. But thanks, I will keep focussed.
Honestly, he's asking you to put his feelings and wishes ahead of what is best for his son, which is not to live in such a terrible atmosphere. You obviously can't choose an adult over your own child. He won't like it but he has got to accept that DS comes first.
You're doing fine. This is a horrible situation and you are making progress. Can you contact your Mum and ask her to tell the builders to give you the key? You can always copy it and give a copy back to them.
Hang on in there. You're that much closer to a resolution now.
You are NOT causing this much pain.
All this vomiting carrying on isn't about pain, it's a last ditch attempt to control you by appealing to the part of you that will believe that you are the one causing this reaction.
You are not.
He is causing it. And he made sure he got himself home from work quickly when it struck him that you might go when you were out (as indeed you were planning).
And he made sure he got himself home from work quickly when it struck him that you might go when you were out (as indeed you were planning).
Yes, it's interesting that his hours are suddenly a great deal more flexible when it's his interests, rather than yours and his son's.
You 'caved' because you as so accustomed to trying to passify him. See a pattern here? Hard to break, even when the relationship is officially over. Just notice the 'caving' and move on, ie move... to your mum's (there must be a way). Or tell him to get out for the sake of all of you (especially your ds). You are doing great.
Just wanted to add - you haven't caused this much pain - he has. It's not as if you didn't give him fair warning of how unhappy you were.
Hope you're ok .
3 steps forward and 2 back is still 1 step further forward than you were.
You know you need to get out as soon as possible.
Don't worry about what you have 'agreed' to! This is about you and your son - you need to put his crap and feelings to one side now and concentrate on you.
Make sure he has given notice on the property or it'll drag on for even longer.
You contact the LL and make sure it has happenend!
You can do it - get packing and get out as soon as you can.
Get the key off of the builders and get to your mums.
Ellie, just because you've agreed to something, doesn't mean you HAVE to follow through. If you've made a bad decision - and you know in your heart of hearts that this is a bad decision - then change it. You are entitled to do so. You are a grown woman, a responsible and caring parent, you are totally entitled to see that your previous decision was the wrong one and to change it to the right one.
Just say, I'm sorry but you put me under pressure and I made a bad decision as a result of feeling sorry for you. That isn't doing our son any good and so I am changing that decision. End of discussion, walk away, let him cry, but stay wrong.
You are doing the right thing for BOTH your son and for you ... and it is your turn now, your STBeX has had his turn and blown it.
I wish you the strength and resolve to get through this to a good place for you & your DS.
Oh bugger ... stay STRONG not wrong
Thank you, you're all so right. You've said exactly what my DM said on the phone earlier. She called me from her holiday an I wasn't going to mention it until she got back, but I did.
She and my DF then called back to say thu were worried and they are driving back a day early and me and DS are going to stay with them tomorrow.
So that means tonight, I'll just be nice, go along with it all and tomorrow take DS to nursery and then take our things to the DPs. I have a solicitors appointment booked and also some appointments to view houses.
Fuck it really. So what, I promised we'd stay for a bit but he's broken enough promises to me so there you go.
Thanks everyone, you definitely helped me make the last hurdle. I mean, I know I've not made it yet but this time tomorrow....
That sounds so much better!
Please ignore the histrionic snot and vomiting. I am surprised you have any respect left for him at all after that pathetic display of emotional blackmail. What a shame he couldn't have shown just a smidgen of that regard for you before now. Oh sorry, the regard is all for himself not for you at all. He is the equivalent of the toddler who had his sweets taken away because he wouldn't share them
Haha it does doesnt it!? We get there in the end. No respect no, pity and guilt. I'm a sucker for guilt.
It is amazing how you can all see through it though and I can't. And I think you're all absolutely right.
Easy for us to say, isn't it ?
Btw, I once did drag out a messy breakup with a bloke that had treated me badly. I finally saw the light and I made that fucker pay in snot and tears (as well as letting him publically humiliate himself), believe me. I got a large amount of satisfaction from that, as it was small fry compared to what he had put me through over the previous 18 months.
But there, perhaps I shouldn't project my own evil self onto other's behaviour
EllieInTheRoom , I'm going to go against the grain, unusually, on this one. Reading through your thread from start to end, I believe that this man really does love you. He has been utterly thoughtless,selfish, focused too much on his work, careless with your feelings, physical ( believe me I abhor that behaviour), cavalier with his promises etc. But I don't believe that to sob over your child when your DW tells you it is over is extreme - I did exactly the same when my DH tried to chuck me out of the house when I found out about his OW/affair. I begged - went down on my knees - none of this is unusual or odd behaviour. I can't describe him as useless or pathetic for that - lots of my friends, male and female, have behaved exactly the same way at the point that they find their relationship may be about to end or there is another person in their partner's life.
I know that you don't love him any more, and I have no doubt that his behaviour and lack of care has driven you to that position but I don't see any wickedness in his response, just complete despair that he has blown it.
Complete despair on his own part. Of course.
Af i pity whoever derives their sense of self satisfaction that way. although it does go some way to explain your posting style. every man mentioned on here is your abusive ex!
AF - I agree. But I still think his response is entirely human, even if it is not what we would hope for and imperfect because it is human. What else was he supposed to do - the OP has made it clear she wants him out. If he's going, and he has, hasn't he the right to beg and plead? Yes, of course he should have behaved better in the past, and he has had his chances. But to condemn a human being so completely for being distraught over the breakdown of his marriage - albeit he is absolutely key to that breakdown - strikes me as very harsh.
I've been on the end of so much shit behaviour, as have so many of us on here, but I still hope I am humane enough to acknowledge that we are all capable of suffering pain and that there can be redemption.
Well, saw the OP has been showing him "humanity" for far too long and he has ridden roughshod all over it. How long would you expect her to keep flogging that particular dead horse, exactly ?
Ellis you are amazing. Cool as a cucumber. You rock.
Ellie even. Bloody Autocorrect.
Saw, I have to say my idea of redemption would be trying to talk through the OP's feelings, acknowledging his own responsibility, and trying to prove things could be better. Not hysterically insisting she shares his bed as a human teddy bear, histrionic grief, and total disregard for both her and their son. Grief is human and universal, absolutely. But the reality is that he's treated her horribly for a long time now, has brushed aside all her efforts to talk, and is now behaving as though he's the only one here whose feelings matter a jot. We've all (almost all - DH has never been, the lucky sod!) been dumped, and God does it hurt. But the OP isn't leaving for another party. She's not left without trying to work things through. And her H has shown no interest at all in trying to understand why - just in trying to prevent her from going.
OP, well done for talking with your parents, and I am so very glad you are getting that level of support. You deserve it and so does your little boy. This is almost over, now.
Tingle, your personal vendettas are not the OP's problem; to post in such a way on such a sensitive thread is both selfish and crass. Can I suggest you take your issues to PM, and leave the rest of us out of them, in future?
"And her H has shown no interest at all in trying to understand why - just in trying to prevent her from going."
Yes, this, exactly this.
Saw I never said he was pathetic or useless. I said on this thread a number of times that I was stunned by his reaction and talked about my guilt. I have not disregarded his pain.
His reaction made me uneasy because it was erratic and he has been known to get physical.
I did say I don't respect him, but that is more down to his continued use of porn instead of trying to sort things out with me then his reaction. Infact, I was so worried about his feelings I stayed in this house, when I really didn't want to, in a misguided effort to spare a few of them.
I have always known his actions are a result of genuine grief. Up until tonight I did think that was mainly about him and what he stood to lose. Tonight however, we have had another talk and he has shown genuine remorse and has taken a lot on board. So much so he decided he should leave and go to his DPs.
So he is working towards redemption, but for me it doesn't change anything sadly.
He has gone?
That is brilliant news.
And you are right, his "redemption" is not your problem.
Glad he has gone. He should have done that in the first place, if he feels true remorse.
Yeah. He seemed to finally get it as well. It makes me feel sad for everything that has been lost. He kept saying that we can get it back if I just let him try, but it has just been too much for too long. And I don't want to.
I thought I would be happy to see him go, but I just feel so sad.
Anyfucker have you NC'd?
It is sad. But I'm glad you don't want to, because tbh I think people only really change incrementally, and over a period of years. I suspect after a brief stint of extreme effort-making you'd be right back where you started, but with less resolve and confidence in making the necessary changes.
Glad the next stage is here, though. For everyone's sake.
Yes, sorry. In my hallowe'en disguise
H phoned earlier after his first session with a counsellor. I had already "enlightened" him about the way he behaves and he had already done some research before he went.
Anyway, both he and the counsellor have already concluded that he has emotionally abused me for the last three years.
Well I could have told them that.
There were lots of things that have never made the thread, such as withholding sex, silent treatment, attempts at controlling me etc.
anyway, he now says he promises to leave me alone, go through with the separation and let me get on with it. He says he is so so sorry. I finally really feel vindicated.
Thanks for the support MNetters x
Good for you. As long as he isn't on a charm offensive to talk you around, because that was a suspiciously easy Road to Damascus moment
Ha! D'ya think? Maybe.
The drama has stopped though, so for that I am very pleased. It's peaceful here tonight
Agree to be cautious. Odd that an abusive person is so swift to reach the understanding, right after failing to get you back by wailing. I dunno, I really hope this is going to stick, but be watchful.
So glad for you that things are at least calm tonight.
I am toasting the peace in your world tonight
but agree there is the need for a cautious approach.
I know, we've done grief, pleading, denial and repentance. Anger must be on its way
Thanks for all the wine
More for you!
Sleep peacefully tonight!
how's things for you tonight, Ellie ?
Good thanks, feeling much more positive tonight.
H text this afternoon to say he had been offered a job, which would actually have solved a lot of the probs at the beginning of the year. Oh the irony! He suggested life would be better if now if I took him back. I replied with my congratulations and said that would mean he would have a lot more time to spend regular days with DS at his new house. Then I gave myself a massive pat on the back.
Saw my DF for the first time since it happened and told me H is a weak man, how the fuck I married him in the first place is beyond him, it's typical me to get into a mess like that, now I have a choice between a miserable life ahead of me stuck in a mess of a marriage or a miserable hard life as a single mother!? Cheers dad.
Suddenly it all fits into place!! Ha!
Thanks for asking! X
Oh and also I went out today and bought cushions and lamps and a bedspread and now my rooms all girlie! I can't see how it's going to be a lifetime of misery myself!
Whoa, Ellie ! You are impressive
Though tomorrow night I might be a blethering mess blubbing into my beautiful new bedcovers!
Ah, but they are beeyootiful bedcovers
It's a rollercoaster, love. We are here if you need us.
Thought I'd update, I'd also love a pearl of wisdom or two or three...
We're still apart. Im constantly getting asked to give it another go but i am standing my ground.
H has had another counselling session. He says he is getting counselling for sex addiction, self pity and self destructive behaviour and for the fact he emotionally abused me.
He told me the counsellor took him down paths he never expected, it's nothing to do with me, it's about him, so he doesn't want to tell me any revelations, which is fair enough I suppose.
But for months I had thought there was something he wasn't telling me and all of this sort of confirmed it. So I asked him about his "sex addiction". I never thought he was having an affair, but I wondered if he was doing more than just masturbating to porn. Prostitutes crossed my mind to be honest. There's a red light district near where he works.
He denied this strongly and I believe him. But then he said, porn wasn't really the issue with him any more. But wanking is. I asked him how often he does it and he said a couple of times a week??!!
How is that a sex addiction?!
It just seems a bit self indulgent to call it that to me. Around Christmas time, I left for a few days after rows and he broke down and told me the reason he had been so horrible to me was because he was wanking to porn a few times a week and was unable to have sex because of it so our relationship had deteriorated. We hadn't had sex for about 20 months.
I said at the time I thought maybe he was being too hard on himself, a few times a week had just replaced our sex life and we could work through it. Now he is saying he never stopped and although it is only a few times a week, he has a low sex drive so if he does it he is unable to DTD for a couple of days.
TBH this is has been a side issue for me for some time because after spending so long trying to initiate sex and getting rejected and then getting generally treated like shite, I haven't wanted to have sex with him for a long time anyway.
But he says it is the crux of everything, we weren't intimate, so we weren't close and we got mean to each other.
I am now veering between feeling like he is just making it all about him again, that even if he does have issues he should have taken responsibility. If our relationship was collapsing because he couldn't resist a thrice weekly wank, he should have been nicer to me.
But then sometimes I wonder whether, when you're husband is trying to tell you he has some mental health issues you should really stick around to try and work them out. I haven't told him that though. Plus I don't want to.
Plus today, I saw him when he dropped DS off and he told me he had decided not to wank anymore and obviously sex is off the Table, it's been a week and he really doesn't know what to do with himself now.
WTF??!! I just shook my head at him. Am I supposed to feel bad for him?
I think you should just be glad that this isn't your problem any more.
When he tells you this stuff, can you just say "Oh, right?" in a disinterested fashion and start talking about something else?
yeah, I am trying to about most of it, but that side of things has been bugging me. I just don't get it.
Sex addict cos he wanks 3 times a week
If his councillor agrees he's a sex addict then there's something he's not telling you.
He says his counsellor agrees on the grounds that it got in the way of him having an intimate relationship with his wife, therefore to him, it's an addiction?!
Look Ellie. Whatever.
You weren't happy. You decided to do something about it. You know you were being abused. No matter what stories come out, what's the point I'm overthinking it all. It just means you are falling into the game again.
Just say 'oh right' and talk about the weather.
I know, I know, I'll shut up now!
Reading it back, it's ridiculous. Must not get sucked in, must not get sucked in
Not your problem. Don't make it your problem and don't let him make it your problem. You don't need to know any of this. Don't ask and don't listen, don't let him tell you.
Really, concentrate on your life. Make it a happy one.
Honestly, if you read that and imagine it was said to a friend after they'd just escaped the marriage you describe... wouldn't you think it all sounds a bloody nightmare, he sounds a nightmare, and isn't it just as well she's out of it?
"it's nothing to do with me, it's about him,"
This stood out to me as the central truth.
Cut down on the contact - only by email/text and only about your DC. Do as close to end of the path handovers as is practical. Do not talk, do not engage.
I would also limit chats with your Dad, as he doesn't sound a very positive influence, and you don't need to deal with negative ones more than you have to right now.
I'm sure your house is looking much better already.
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