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Need some serious advice(58 Posts)
Ok...So first of all I am Asian and our values are different than the western way (in no way superior or inferior).
I am 24 and never had a gf (Not due to lack of opportunities). I have known a girl from a year or so who's been in 1 relationship for 2 years. After the relationship broke off,she has had casual intimacy(everything except sex) with a very good friend of hers. She tells me she is a virgin and has not gone too far even when both the guys pressurized her and she is completely honest with me.(This is something I really respect). I am also a virgin so no double standards here.
Here are the problems :
1) She got used by her first bf who lured her into marrying her when he just wanted to have it with her. She still has some feelings for her. Do women really get over their first love/first kiss and stuff ? She still remembers poems and stuff he used to write for her which I find pretty immature.
2) I really have a problem with the second guy. The fact that she had some intimate time with him when she knew they don't have a future eats me up. How can she be so casual. She tells that he initiated every time which I don't believe completely. This second guy also made all their stuff public.
3) She is completely honest and transparent with me and regrets everything. But,when we were in our initial phase of our relationship,she felt she had done nothing wrong. It's just when I made her realise some things,she felt she had committed some mistakes. She did have a lot of growing up to do but I cant just forgive her for being immature. I know what she's done before has nothing to do with me,but she is very much emotionally attached to the second guy who was kind of a rebound guy for her. She also once told she remembers all the good time she has spent with this second guy which means this second guy really rocked her life for a year or so.
4) I have heard the capacity to emotionally bond decreases as the number of partners increases. Will she ever be emotionally attached to me and get over all the physical and emotional stuff ? I have all the confidence in the world to rock her world but after every few weeks,I break down as all the mental pictures eat me up.
I don't want to let go off this otherwise wonderful relationship and an honest girl for my own dogmas of life. I know she is kind hearted and brave enough to tell me everything honestly.
You need to stop listening to nonsense. There is a fair amount of psychobabble hiding in here that you need to get a hold of. The capacity to form emotional bonds has absolutely ZERO to do with the number of partners, friends, pets, whatever that you've ever had. The simple fact here, is that I think you feel jealous of her past experiences and don't know how to handle them.
It is perfectly possible to have enjoyable experiences with other men, and then be happy with someone else. I don't think awfully of (all of) my ex-boyfriends - some of them I remember fondly - but I'm still extremely happily married. Our past experiences make us who we are, and someone who is able to remember good things about past relationships suggests to me that this is a woman who has a very healthy attitude towards others. It's not immature to remember that someone did something nice for you - it's healthy to hold happy memories.
Do you think that you're really in a place where you can offer yourself as good relationship material? Perhaps you have some things that you need to think about first?
Just to clarify, your girlfriend has been married, but has not had intercourse, so you classify her as a virgin, although she has been physically intimate?
You are a virgin and find it difficult to accept that she has some experience?
She is now divorced?
You mention different values, are there other cultural pressures from families?
To be honest, your op is all about how you can accept the things she has done wrong, which sounds like the basis for a very unbalanced and unequal relationship to me.
I can assure you that the capacity to emotionally bond decreases as the number of partners increases is utter rubbish.
Trust and Respect of each other make for a fulfilling and harmonious relationship
I think you need to get ever it, everyone has a past. He you can't handle hers, then let her go find people who can. You won't be able to undo what she has done before.
You sound like you would constantly be throwing her past back in her face to put her down and make her feel less worthy of you. That's cruel.
In my eyes she has done nothing wrong and you are the immature one. I would advise her not to get with someone who has such complicated views as she will be forever justifying herself to you. Let her go and find someone else who fits your criteria.
You really have to let this jealousy go - because if things don't work out with this girl, your attitude will affect any future relationships as well.
She hasn't been immature; she's been a normal, nice sounding girl who has had some relationships in the past. And that's absolutely fine. It certainly won't make any difference to how she feels about you; I was married before to a nice man who I am still friendly with, but that will never affect how much I love the man I'm married to now. We both moved on.
I'm sorry but I think you're in the wrong here. As far as I understand
1)she has been married, therefore you accept that a degree of intimacy has occurred in that relationship.
2) for whatever reason her marriage broke down and she found a way to rebuild her confidence and self esteem with another man.
3) you're now trying to destroy her self esteem by telling her this was wrong?
Does the fact that she has some sexual experience and therefore expectations make you feel insecure?
For further information, nothing is as attractive and wonderful as a man who loves you for who you are, who tells you that you are the most beautiful woman he has ever seen and makes you laugh. Value her and she will value you back. Just let her past go and see her for who she is.
Would you mind saying how old she is? I am surprised that she is a virgin if she has been married, unless she was married very young?
She is 24 only and not married. Just that she had a relationship with a guy for 3 years. (2 and a half years out of it was long distance).
So, she had two bfs.
One wanted to marry her.
The second guy was a rebound, but she's still emotionally attached to him?
It doesn't sound like a rebound.
You can just about forgive her for being immature, because she has made some mistakes (in your view, even though she initially didn't think they were).
She is 24, so not a young girl.
She doesn't seem that into you.
@Lweji......She is into me and always tells how I have changed her life and I have built moral standards in her and stuff. The other day I spoke about breaking it off as I was really angry and she was like she is ready to do anything for me. She has broken complete contact with those 2 guys. She is also ready to struggle with me to build a better future. But, I am unable to handle her past at times. Maybe I have some growing up to do. Any tips ?
Not sure about the cultural perspective. I guess I am reacting as our culture has evolved to make me react:
1)People don't forget their first kiss. If they are lucky, they remember it as a good moment. A new more serious relationship would never be threatened by memories of past lovers.
2)There is nothing wrong about anything which happens behind closed doors between consenting adults who are having a good time.
3)You are making her feel guilty about something she enjoyed which hurt no one, and you are looking down on her. You seem jealous, and this inequality seems like a bad foundation for a relationship.
4)The strength of a bond has nothing to do with previous partners. It sounds to me like you need to grow up a lot, and maybe have a few relationships ourself.
I was really angry and she was like she is ready to do anything for me
Whoa! I hope for her sake that that's the end of your relationship. That sounds like a really unhealthy dynamic.
She hasn't actually done anything wrong and I don't think she sounds particularly immature.
I think your moral standards sound simple minded, judgemental, and not very kind really.
Did you post about this a couple of months ago? I remember a very similar thread.
She has done nothing wrong, stop trying to make her feel guilty.
You have 'built moral standards in her'? You are not approaching this relationship on an equal and respectful basis. Let her go.
You can't forgive her?
You have built moral standards in her?
You were really angry?
She needs to change for you?
She dated two guys before she met you, she didn't murder your family. There is NOTHING for you to forgive, her moral standards sound great and she does not need to change.
Op I'm sorry to say you sound jealous, immature and controlling. If she were my friend I'd be telling her that unless YOU (ie the OP) were to really change attitude around these points, to run like the wind.
You sound like a text book abuser
"She...regrets everything. But,when we were in our initial phase of our relationship,she felt she had done nothing wrong. It's just when I made her realise some things,she felt she had committed some mistakes."
NO. This is totally and utterly wrong and you are harming her by trying to change her moral code.
I'm sorry, but it doesn't matter what culture you are from, this is never okay. If you got into a relationship with an axe murderer it is not okay (or advisable!) to try and convince them that murdering is wrong - (okay in this instance you'd probably report them to the police, so slightly ridiculous example - but anyway)
You have different underlying morals. You are not compatible. You do not have the right to try and change her morals, she is not wrong for feeling and having done as she has done.
What you should do about it depends - do you feel your views are harmful and wish to change them? In which case I would seriously consider looking at programmes for men who feel the need to control their partners - this might sound over the top, but this is what you are doing. Or do you feel you are in the right here? In which case you should leave her and find someone who shares your values truly, not by being coerced.
And no, past relationships have absolutely no effect on how deeply one can feel for subsequent partners. In fact in my experience it is the opposite.
Why on earth is it YOUR place to explain to her where she went wrong, to even decide she's WRONG for having intimacy with others when she wasn't even with you?
You sound like an abuser in the making. Please, please put any thoughts of relationships with anyone till you have grown up a bit!
Absolutely agree with Any. If I were your girlfriend, I'd be running for the hills very very fast and not looking back.
Ask yourself this question:
"How will making my girlfriend feel bad about things in her past that she cannot change make her happier, our relationship stronger and help us be more loving and respectful to each other?"
It is always a complete waste of energy to look back to the past and wish things had been different. If you have not yet learnt this about yourself and in relation to relationships with other people then you need to take some time to grow up and develop as a person before you enter a relationship.
"I can't forgive her for being immature".
That sentence is actually really scary. You've shamed her for being a normal young girl. I find your post and views very worrying and I hope that she wakes up soon and realises how abusive you are.
What has brought you to a parenting site?
If she was posting about you we would tell her to run away fast.
You sound like you think women are property and second hand ones are inferior. She is not a car!
This is a time of equality between the sexes and not a time for a man to shape a woman's moral values. She can shape her own very well.
You obviously mean well but a modern educated independent woman is not going to put up with your attitude. Either you need to change or you need to find someone who shares your traditional views. God help her!
"The other day I spoke about breaking it off as I was really angry and she was like she is ready to do anything for me"
I feel very sorry for this woman indeed. Your 'moral standards' sound oppressive, unreasonable, judgemental and derived not from your background or culture but purely from your own insecurity and narrow-mindedness. Her past relationships are none of your business and yes, you have a LOT of growing up to do. Currently you are manipulating a woman in an emotionally abusive way, and that is totally unacceptable.
If this is a real bloke, I don't think he means well at all. I think he means significant harm.
Seriously, do her a massive favour and walk away.
Let her find someone who will love her for who she is and will grow to be, not insignificant stuff shes done in the past.
Seriously grow up or your never gonna find happiness.
I wouldn't imagine real blokes with no kids turn to MN to vent their bizarre and almost made up sounding problems.
Its like the paedophile friend story all over again.
I don't think it's real at all, it's another boring Lets Get MNetters Riled Up thread and maybe if we throw in a cultural element, we can get them to start throwing racist insults about too.
You're weird and scary and that has absolutely nothing to do with being Asian so why you felt the need to bring that up is beyond me.
Being Asian is not a catch-all for abuse and you are already being EA.
If this is for real, then grow up and get over yourself.
It's not your job or your business to teach her morals or help her mature or whatever the fuck else it is that's going on here.
Leave her alone. You're unhealthy.
Why did you get angry at her?
I have built moral standards in her
You have forced your moral standards upon her.
Please leave the poor woman alone.
There was a very, very similar post a while ago (not the peadophile friend one). Either it's the same bloke hoping to get different responses this time or ...
You sound awful. Being Asian has nothing to do with anything. If you want a woman who has no sexual experience then
good luck find one, but leave this poor woman alone as you are obviously going to use her previous choices as a stick to beat her with indefinitely.
You sound like you have shamed and belittled her into feeling like she has done wrong although she didn't feel that before she met you, and yet you still can't forgive her for past behaviour before she met you. That is so, so wrong. It is setting you up for an unequal relationship where you bully and abuse her and she does anything to placate you. That kind of relationship is wrong in any culture.
Please let her go before you cause any more damage.
You sound immature.
When you have really loved someone it can be incredibly difficult, if not impossible, to not have feelings for them and of course she will have memories she can't or doesn't want to forget. Why should she? Do you not have memories if things you have done in the past?
Your OP reads that you think she is not pure enough for you now, you aren't even dating and you are already finding fault with her and being critical about her so I think you need to leave her alone.
She felt she had done nothing wrong because she hadn't and then you bullied her into changing how she felt. Nice .
Why does she have to be brave to tell you things? Is it because she knows she is taking a risk with you as she knows you will kick off?
She is "ready to struggle to be with you"? Bloody hell. This is not a good relationship, this is not nice at all. You are controlling her and you need to leave her the fuck alone.
I would be interested to know what kind of moral standards you have built in her.
I am married to an Asian man who has never shown any problems with my past (and I tell you, I was nothing close to inexperienced with men)
You sound very controlling and I think you should do a serious work on yourself before considering any long-term relationship. Perhaps a bit of experience on your side?
You're a controlling, bullying emotional abuser and your girlfriend should leave you yesterday before she accumulates any more damage to her psyche.
You are sounding like a misogynist and an abuser. And a 'culture' that involves holding women at a different standard to men, involves forcing 'moral' values on women by men and shaming women because of their past should be eradicated. HTH
Can you explain what is morally wrong about having physical intimacy with people prior to marriage? What is inherently bad about such behaviour? Does it make someone more likely to abuse small children or mug an old lady?
If the explanation is based in religion, I think you either need to think harder about what your religion means to you and which bits you adhere to, since everyone of whatever faith does that. No one follows all religious dogma 100%. Or you need to find someone whose religious interpretation and life-behaviour is more in line with your own.
Personally, I'd far rather have a partner with a loving, kind personality who has had multiple partners than a virgin with a judgmental attitude. You should consider the fact that she is as wonderful as she is precisely because of her past experiences and her way of forming relationships. As a result of those she has learned about human frailty, the value of tolerance, her own self-worth, and experienced a window into the world of adult relationships that you, quite frankly, are lacking.
I don't really understand who you are to be making moral judgements for her.
There is a lot of culture superstitions coming out in your op and really they have no place in a loving relationship.
You can't forgive her for things she did begore she met you.
That sounds like you are extremely possessive snd jealous.
Neither are attractive qualities.
You do not own her or her body and she has done nothing wrong for you to forgive.
Tell her to come post on here about you and we can all tell her to run a mile away from you and your judgment.
It seems to me that her morals are better than yours.
You are trying to control and shame her. You are bullying her.
You got angry at her? And what gives you the right to do that then?
You have no right to mistreat this woman, she has done nothing wrong.
Where is your human decency?
I have to agree that if she were here posting about you, using the words you have used, I would be very worried about her
You sound extremely insecure and it is this you need to think about, instead of punishing other people for it.
Can you read this stuff without getting angry with us?
She was a single woman doing what she wanted. Absolutely nothing wrong with what she did.
There is nothing wrong with remember the good times with a past partner.
her past is her past it is nothing to do with you.
You have no right to impose any moral standards on her or decide hers are wrong. It is not your right to forgive her anything.
Either get over it or break up with her. Either way stop treating her like she has done something wrong.
Sounds very much like the sort of conversation I have with abusers at my DV perp program.
You need some support to stop acting in a abusive controlling way.
She has not had sex she is pure stop trying to make her feel like she is not.
You talk about cultural differences but frankly your post just reeks of prejudice.
Grow up. You're not superior to her and you're not as perfect as you think you are. She deserves more than someone who feels he has to 'lower' himself to her level.
And by the way you sound absolutely horrible. I sincerely hope you are not as awful as you appear in your post or this girl needs to get away from you. Fast.
I don't believe this...
A father of a daughter not much younger than your GF writes: If you were my daughter's BF, about now, you and I would be having a chat. Actually, I'd be doing the talking, you'd be listening. And nodding furiously.
Please leave this girl alone. You both have different morals and if you get together you are both going to end up extremely miserable together. The fact that you can't accept her past and make her feel guilty for it will slowly erode her self worth. And the fact that you get upset with her past means that it will over time slowly eat away at you. If you want a virgin then stick to that, don't get with her. Look at the problems you have already and you are not even married or have children.
Why has OP not come back? I guess the earlier posters were right, this is a wind 'em up thread.
Which failed to wind us up... <high fives the viperarchy>
I am sorry to say this but MY WORD....I feel sorry for this poor girl. She has had 2 guys who she has been intimate and shared a connection with and she previously didn't feel any need to feel shamed about it....until YOU made her feel that way!
At 24 I can tell you I had done a lot more than that and do not now or ever feel ashamed of it and nor would I let anybody else tell me otherwise. She had done nothing wrong.
Also I can tell you this....whilst those relationships she had did not work out she does still have fond memories from both, and why not! You don't forget all about a lovely holiday or day out at the beach and say it was terrible just because it rained at the end do you??
If you continue to make her feel shame about her previous actions (which have nothing to do with you and is frankly none of you business) and relationships you will be destroying her self esteem. She will withdraw from the world and she will withdraw from you! I'm guessing that your motivation is withdraw her away from other men, and see to it that she thinks of you as some kind of master (if not then blow me down because that is exactly how your post comes across). You may achieve some small success in this regard over time, but as she withdraws you know what you will be doing??? you will be making the men that were there before you seem like price charmings!! Why....because I bet they didn't try to make her feel utterly awful about choices she made, didn't try and change her moral standings, didn't emotionally abuse her.....yes that's right emotionally abuse her!!!
Emotional abuse is right where you are heading, this is how it starts...you telling her what she did was wrong, and making her feel bad about herself, eroding her self confidence. You will tell yourself and her that you are doing it because you love her and because you can't stand the fact that you feel these other men had taken advantage of her and only wanted her for her body etc etc. This is bollocks!!!, what you can't stand is the fact that she was intimate with someone before you, that she enjoyed herself that way before you, that maybe when you get around to being that intimate with her, you won't or might not measure up to the men she had before....that you might not be as good, and you will make it all her fault!!! You will punish her for your own insecurities, you will control her, you will be paranoid and posessive of her.
My post may sound incredibly harsh, but please really think about what I have said and assess why you really feel the way you feel. She has done nothing wrong, nothing at all. Her past is making YOU feel bad and you have to work out why that is, because the problem here is not her its very much YOU! You need to work on yourself, your self esteem and self confidence, and learning to understand that everyone you meet has a past, past relationships, past habits and past loves....that is life.
If you want to have a successful non abusive relationship with this lady or indeed any lady in the future, than you need to look to yourself and work through your own issues first, because you do have issues that need addressing.
I think it boils down to your insecurities and jealousies. You also seem to think you are entitled to make pretty big judgements about others and instead should look at yourself. How can you be a better person? How can you create the future you want with the people you want? I promise you childish jealous behaviour will drive her away. Jealousy is not an attractive quality.
You need to be a level headed man. You need to show maturity - not looking down your nose at her but looking forward to the future and building a good relationship. Being positive. After all if she loves you, she will stay with you.
But also she actually hasn't had a proper fully involved long term relationship with those two men, only a light bit of romance - which is healthy and normal for a young woman. She is obviously the opposite of a mass serial seducer.
I agree that her past relationships are non of your business. Why should she feel shame for a small amount if romance? You will drive her away with your immature behaviour.
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