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Oh the irony! After 15 months he has realised that 'he didn't love her' after all

(111 Posts)
OrmirianResurgam Wed 25-Sep-13 08:49:06

DDay June 2012. Much support (abrasive and otherwise) on here. He and I have been reconciling since then. We've had the usual rollercoaster. Been OK most of the time. First thing he said to when he confessed to the affair was 'I love her'. Ouch! But he loved me more and when it came to it he wasn't prepared to lose me in order to keep her. The 'I love her' niggled. A lot. Everyone who knows about the affair reckoned it was a MLC thing, a bit of an ego-boost, an infatuation (she was 25 to his 50 ffs!!) . H told me he loved her because she was 'worthy of love'. So I took him at his word. He loved her. OK. I had to deal with that.

15 months later he tells me out of the blue that he wonders if he ever really loved her, that it was just an ego-boost MLC type of thing.

I have been on a major self-esteem repair campaign since dday. I felt like an old dishrag, I have been working hard to make myself more confident, capable and less emotionally dependent. Now I don't give a stuff what he felt for her. It DOESN'T MATTER. 15 months ago it did but not now hmm

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 25-Sep-13 09:37:18

Let's all talk about him some more shall we.... ? hmm Why on earth do you want to reconcile with someone so full of himself? I think this is the point at which you are finally going to get angry and I give it six months, a year tops before you get your confidence to a place where you're not content to be his second choice and you chuck him out of your own volition.

JoinYourPlayfellows Wed 25-Sep-13 09:38:56

I hope he spends the rest of his life regretting his obdurate insistence that his tawdry, vanity-based indulgence with this awful woman was "love" and that she, who lied and manipulated to the extent that she did, was "worthy of love".

Well done him - he got to feel right for 15 months while you felt like shit.

Now he's realised it was just a big load of nothing, you don't care.

You're too good for him.

OrmirianResurgam Wed 25-Sep-13 09:40:49

Oh I can assure you I've been very angry. Fucking furious! Still have my moments.

Vivacia Wed 25-Sep-13 09:46:28

Am I right in understanding you're still with him and there never was a separation?

Zhx3 Wed 25-Sep-13 09:46:59

OrmirianResurgam,

Gosh, I remember reading your posts last summer.

I thought you were too good for him then, and I think you're too good for him now. How vain and self-centred he has been and continues to be.

Glad you are now more confident, capable and independent.

You're too good for him and you know it thanks Shame you're wasting yourself on him really. Especially after his MLC comment.

BlueSkySunnyDay Wed 25-Sep-13 09:51:44

I know so many people who have reconciled in these circumstances after he has been unfaithful who have subsequently split a while down the line as the wife's decision as she has turned round and gone "actually I don't love you any more"

Sometimes once you have got over the whole thing of winning him back I think it slowly begins to dawn that the loss of respect for him overshadows the love.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 25-Sep-13 09:52:03

Use the next 'moment' to heave Mr Lets All Talk About Me out perhaps? As you say, he DOESN'T MATTER. Why share your life with someone who doesn't matter?

Smartiepants79 Wed 25-Sep-13 09:52:37

I don't know your history but I hope you come out of this a stronger more confident person.
Staying with him is clearly your choice and as long as staying and working to keep your marriage (both of you) makes you happier overall than you would be otherwise it is the right choice. Only you know wether it's worth it.

I felt like an old dishrag and you want to stay with someone that can do that to you because they're having a selfish little MLC why? Seriously, I don't mean to sound harsh but you sound intelligent & like you've improved your confidence a lot etc and like you sort of don't care anymore anyway. So why?

( bluesky has said it better and more nicely).

OrmirianResurgam Wed 25-Sep-13 09:55:35

I dealt with it the way that seemed right at the time. Don't need any more support regarding that. What's done is done.

However the future is a different matter. I have no idea whether we'll still be together a year from now. Thing is, I am not scared, overwhelmed and out of control now. So it's up to me. Not going to rush into anything.

Glad to hear it smile

Sounds like you're doing very well anyway. Well done!

Vivacia Wed 25-Sep-13 09:58:22

Great that you're feeling so strong and confident. Has he noticed the changes in you?

OrmirianResurgam Wed 25-Sep-13 10:01:27

Yes he has vivacia. Funnily enough he's been ill on and off since dday with minor problems. Right now he has a mysterious pain in his shoulder and arm that has all the physios and doctor's puzzled hmm Strange.

Badvoc Wed 25-Sep-13 10:01:36

Blimey.
He's done a real number on you hasn't he?
Glad you are ok, but equally hope you come to your senses and realise your own worth sometime soon.

BelleDameSansMerci Wed 25-Sep-13 10:04:03

Orm, (((hugs)))

Don't expect you even know who I am but I always liked you on here. Glad you have found your peace and strength.

OrmirianResurgam Wed 25-Sep-13 10:06:16

thanks belle. I do remember you x

Thanks everyone for your comments and advice. It's funny how different I feel from the time I was on here sobbing and in shock.

Badvoc Wed 25-Sep-13 10:10:00

Ah....but you aren't that person anymore op, are you?
That's the problem.
You have grown and changed and moved on...and he hasn't.
He is still the man who - MLC or not - cheated on you with a girl half his age.
And he always will be.

Only just saw how old she was. How disgusting...

MadAboutHotChoc Wed 25-Sep-13 10:16:02

And how do you respond to his mysterious illnesses/pains?

Having been where you have, I do get why you made the decision to stay. However, I think the self absorption, childish attention seeking along with the fact that he is still making it all about him, would really put me off.

Have you told him what you feel now? That you don't actually care anymore?

OrmirianResurgam Wed 25-Sep-13 10:19:00

mad - I didn't reply to his comment. It's not my business.

The illnesses? I make sympathetic noises, offer advice but leave him to it. I've never been good with ill people as it is - no patience.

Dahlen Wed 25-Sep-13 10:21:30

I always felt you were too good for your DH even before his affair came to light. Your posts often betrayed a stance of being terribly taken for granted, although he never behaved like an out-and-out bastard. But you have DC and a long history together, and sometimes an affair doesn't always need to end a marriage. It depends on lessons learned and emotions, which aren't always logical but are just as valid and powerful as what seems the 'right' thing to do. I understand why you wanted to reconcile, and I think the process of doing that has been a useful one for both of you. Your DH has been a bit slower on the uptake than I'd like, but even if you don't manage to go the distance, you'll both be stronger, more self-aware people for this. Good luck with the rest of your journey.

maypoledancer Wed 25-Sep-13 10:36:57

You'll leave him I think. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow but soon.
Does he smoke, btw? 'mysterious shoulder pain' can be lung cancer. I knew two people whose mysterious shoulder pain turned out to lung cancer - my uncle and a friendof my parents.

Offred Wed 25-Sep-13 10:39:08

Orm, I have felt all along, and still do feel that staying with him was a mistake for you.

Offred Wed 25-Sep-13 10:40:57

I'm glad to hear you've built up your confidence inspite of him though.

Cabrinha Wed 25-Sep-13 10:42:58

Yyuo

Cabrinha Wed 25-Sep-13 10:44:52

Uuuuuuuuuoojuuiuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

OrmirianResurgam Wed 25-Sep-13 10:46:29

cabrinha????

Yes he smokes maypole. Oh good lord sad

MadAboutHotChoc Wed 25-Sep-13 10:46:53

I have no patience either so would respond in a similar way. I seem to remember you having some issues and I wonder if he felt it was taking attention away from him and that he was no longer the centre of attention?

Why are you not sharing your feelings with him? Do you generally talk to him much about your feelings?

Orm, I remember your initial thread. It's good to read that you're not feeling out of control, scared or overwhelmed any longer. You've absolutely been the wringer with this, with his initial denial and minimising (par for the course,as we know) and then the further revelations etc. I remember your post from a holiday about a year ago and you sounded terribly sad but stoical then. A year on you sound so much better. I'm glad about that.

Orm, I admire you. It's so easy for us all to sit behind a screen and yell LTB, but this is your life. And I get that it is never that simple. Sometimes, it's a process. I hope that whatever you decide to do in the future, that you put your happiness and self contentment first. I hope that your H does spend the rest of his life trying to be a better partner, but if he doesn't...I think you'll be ok without him. I really do.

Wellwobbly Wed 25-Sep-13 10:53:02

mysterious shoulder pain also = heart attack.

Please make him go and have a full check up.

Wellwobbly Wed 25-Sep-13 10:54:06

I don't know, I think Orm has shown a lot of strength and grace, more than I have shown.

I admire her.

been "through" the wringer, of course, is what I meant.

OrmirianResurgam Wed 25-Sep-13 11:00:19

He has been to the GP already wellwobbly but I guess it wouldn't hurt to try again. Thankyou

madchoc - I do talk about my feelings but TBH I have talked about them so much it's getting boring! To me as well as to him. I blurt everything out. He tends to think and think and then say something. He finds it hard to talk about his - which is why the 'I didn't really love her' comment was such a surprise.

I could say 'I am not sure whether we'll be together in a years time' and he'd pause, think and then say 'what do you mean?' and then I'd repeat it and he'd say 'what is that you want to do?'. Arrggghhhhhh! If I kicked him out today he'd just go without argument and then slowly drink himself to death or lose his job or get in fights. He makes no bones about the fact he's collapse without me - funny way of showing that he needs me though, to have an affair hmm

OrmirianResurgam Wed 25-Sep-13 11:02:48

" Your posts often betrayed a stance of being terribly taken for granted,"

LOL dahlen! Yes I make damned good martyr grin My fault entirely. I am a coper, a filler in of gaps, a fixer. I don't have to be. I choose to. It's one of the things I am working really hard at not being.

He makes no bones about the fact he'd collapse without me

So a 50 year old man who could get it together enough to cheat and lie about it says he wouldn't cope without you? Yeah, nice one hmm

edam Wed 25-Sep-13 11:03:18

I'm glad you are feeling strong and confident.

Lweji Wed 25-Sep-13 11:09:18

He makes no bones about the fact he's collapse without me

Please do not make his emotional blackmail cloud your judgement.
He is not your responsibility.

Do what is best for you.

although emotional blackmail would put me off the man and would make me lose all respect

LeGavrOrf Wed 25-Sep-13 11:09:49

I am really glad you feel stronger than you did last year (fuck, can't believe that it has been over a year). You were SO heartbroken last year. Your pain was tangible through all your threads.

One thing thing though that you said on a thread last week or so. Saying that you still get angry, however you don't express it to DP as there is. I point, sours things etc. Instead you channel that anger into exercise or you go out until you calm down.

I reckon you shouldn't feel that you have to dampen down that anger. It is fully justified and why should he feel that you are having to deny your emotions in order to keep the status quo? I know it is easier to do that (god knows I don't take my own advice, I would never confront but would fester quietly with fury) but fuck it. Let him KNOW that you are still furious with what he did, with what he said.

What does he think he is doing telling you that he didn't love her anyway? After all the terrible pain he caused, does he now expect you to shrug your shoulders and say 'oh it all came out in the wash' like some ridiculous plot in a soap opera. He needs to recognise what he has done. Just because you have been a bloody Champion all throughout and have been stoical, doesn't mean that he should get away without realising that still one year on, you are still having to deal emotionally with the fallout of his behaviour.

LeGavrOrf Wed 25-Sep-13 11:11:02

I agree with others, I really admire you. I admired you last year and I still do now.

I actually think it's very cruel of him to come out with that after all this turmoil you've gone through. It really was throwing it all away for nothing.

PPPpickUPaPenguin Wed 25-Sep-13 11:17:17

I feel sorry for you OP, more sorry for you that you stayed with him after it all. You could have had a lovely time finding yourself and making a new life/home for yourself.

LeGavrOrf Wed 25-Sep-13 11:18:06

I think it is thoughtless and completely stupid at best to tell you, spiteful and 'it's all about meeeeee'at worst.

Can I come to your house and give him a damn good shake orm?

OrmirianResurgam Wed 25-Sep-13 11:18:13

Thanks orc, exactly! I'd almost rather he did love her - otherwise it was all totally and utterly pointless. Well it was pointless anyway as he never intended to leave me to go to her. An exercise in painful futility.

Hi LeGavrorf - the poster previously known as Getorf? Nice to see you again.

LeGavrOrf Wed 25-Sep-13 11:19:33

Yes that's me orm.

It does seem pointless doesn't it. All that bloody devastation last year and 15 months of degrees of pain and hurt for fuck all.

Badvoc Wed 25-Sep-13 11:20:41

Yes he is cruel.
And selfish.
And pathetic.
He would collapse without you?
I would go ahead and let him.
I admire you too op. I could not have stayed with such a man and I suffer from attacks of martyrdom from time to time too smile

LeGavrOrf Wed 25-Sep-13 11:21:47

He wouldn't collapse without you, but he would like you to think that he would.

Badvoc Wed 25-Sep-13 11:24:11

Of course he wouldn't.
Would you like to think he would op?

Also, he'd collapse without you? Well you collapsed because of what he did to you and had to rebuild yourself to get to where you are now. You owe the man less than nothing...

OrmirianResurgam Wed 25-Sep-13 11:29:24

Looked at from the outside I wouldn't have stayed with him either. But the view is different from within.

Discovery on infidelty makes up fall apart a bit and that isn't a good place to make big decisions.
You want the familiar around you and he was the most familiar thing.
I kept looking back at the couple we were for years and years and not the couple we became just before the affair.
I blamed myself too because that's what I am best at wink.
He made so much effort to make things better, to comfort me, he stopped seeing her etc so I was convinced that he wanted me and not her. He did everything I asked. I got seduced into thinking everything would be OK.

I forgot about the fact that I had a right to make decisions too. I was so busy fixing everything that I lost sight of the fact that not fixing things was also an option.

There is a part of me that think that as we've come so far we might as well stick with it.

I don't know. We'll see.

I don't think this'll be the last hurdle you'll face with this idiot man though. Even if you can forget that he's not worth a tenth of you, your time or your love, he might do something equally selfish and damaging in the future andundo all the work you're talking about here. Why even risk it?

Cabrinha Wed 25-Sep-13 11:35:14

Apologies for those unhelpful random posts - I was sat one phone!

OrmirianResurgam Wed 25-Sep-13 11:36:36

LOL cabrinha! I wondered....

Badvoc Wed 25-Sep-13 11:42:32

Perhaps you should stop blaming yourself and blame the person that caused the problem...him.
It sounds form what others have said that this is not the first issue you have had in this marriage.
Is there anything to save?
Are you so busy putting out fires that you haven't realised the building and foundation has gone?

I thought it was quite insightful Cabrinha! I've certainly seen worse on here.

Hi Orm. I would be furious at that throwaway didn't love her after all comment. Bloody furious.

The pillock.

But. You chose to stay and work at it and you did and are. And as others have said you seem stronger. And nobody would judge you if you did leave him now. And he wouldn't fall apart really. Just wants you to think he would.

Has he tried a chiropractor for his shoulder? I go to a good one here in Taunton by the station.

Charbon Wed 25-Sep-13 11:54:46

I remember your posts in the aftermath and recall that you were the one who was reading voraciously in an attempt to understand what had happened and why - and I think I commented that it's very understandable and normal for someone in your situation to do that. With the caveat of course that your husband was matching your efforts - and concern that if not, that process was perhaps mirroring the pre-affair state where you took control of your relationship and he was passive.

I don't see his latest admission in the same way as others. Maybe because this is the normal outcome after an affair of this nature, involving a man like your husband.

I may have recalled this wrongly and if so please forgive me, but I'd had the impression that your husband had a very strong internal view of himself as A Good Man. People like that have huge difficulty seeing an affair like this for what it was: an opportunity to have sex and romance with someone new, that might not come again. Because that clashes with their own view of themselves and seems tawdry and weak, they will often reframe it as a Grand Love Affair. I have often written about how 'Love' provides excuses for people to commit terrible acts against the ones they love or even complete strangers. That needs challenging because 'love' does not excuse, nor is it always real anyway.

After all this time, if he 'got' the above, had changed so that he could recognise these grandiose tendencies in himself and was better able to self-deprecate and say this wasn't love, that could be a useful platform for further discussions and learning as a couple. If he does not 'get' this however and none of this came out in counselling or through his reading, it's more worrying.

OrmirianResurgam Wed 25-Sep-13 12:35:10

charbon - yes, I think your summing up of him is accurate. He did see it as a drama with H as the KISA and OW as the DID - complete with the fire-breathing dragon (OW's H). Not sure what role I played but he always said it was nothing to do with me anyway. Reality broke up their little drama but it has taken a while for him to see that is all it was - a soap opera not a Shakespearean tragedy. Idiot!

Charbon Wed 25-Sep-13 12:49:16

Did his counselling uncover why he was attracted to a Romantic Idiot affair?

Or did you do couples counselling and if so, did that focus more heavily on your relationship?

I'm sorry I can't remember if he had counselling or not, but if it was couples counselling only I'm not in the least surprised it's taken this long for him to get it. What's more worrying though is that he is about 15 months off the pace in his development.

No wonder you're wondering 'what now?'

OrmirianResurgam Wed 25-Sep-13 12:54:14

We had couples counselling. I had some IC, he didn't have his own. We concentrated on the affair and what it did to our marriage, but also how we got to the point where an affair was possible. It was helpful. But yes, I would have liked him to have some of his own.

Charbon Wed 25-Sep-13 12:54:55

I also wanted to provide a different narrative for those who are saying that it would have been more worthwhile and understandable if this was 'love'.

I really think this view of 'love' needs challenging. It is no defence and it does not excuse. The OW probably made a similar bargain - it was acceptable to betray her own marriage and have an affair with a colleague because she 'loved deeply'.

These are smokescreens to cover up and justify often appalling behaviour. It is no more acceptable to hurt others because of love than it is hate.

Charbon Wed 25-Sep-13 12:56:41

Oh he didn't have his own?

It sounds like the missing link in your recovery was him looking at himself as an individual. What a shame and a waste. That was the most important link.

LeGavrOrf Wed 25-Sep-13 12:56:43

I remember you saying that he works in an environment with very few men, so he was the chief cockerel around whom lots of admiring women hens would look up to him.

And then he came home to a normal life with a normal marriage which was distinctly NOT 'oh you are such a Wonderful manly MAN doing a fantastic job' but rather 'so do you want to take the kids to football or start the dinner'

So his ego was boosted by all the flattery and attention I reckon.

Let him sort his own shoulder out. He has got a phone, he knows the procedure - call the GP and make an appointment. Not just say endlessly 'oh my shoulder hurts' and expect you (muggins) to make the appointment and chivvy him along.

bleedingheart Wed 25-Sep-13 13:25:37

I remember your threads Orm, your bafflement and distress leapt off the page.
I seem to remember you had shown kindness and support to the OW pre-discovery as well.
I didn't think for a second that he loved her, it was pure KISA as you say.

He could have worked this out some time ago if he hadn't wanted to see himself as a good man who fell in love. He has hurt you so much and been so selfish. I think you are amazingly strong to stay and work at it.

LeGavrOrf Wed 25-Sep-13 13:34:49

I wish he had gone to counselling on his own. It would have been a gesture in recognising that he needed to work independently to sort his issues out. Not feeling hard done by in the whole star crossed lovers bollocks.

WowOoo Wed 25-Sep-13 13:43:59

Ormirian, I did wonder what the outcome of this was and how you were.
I'm only on here sporadically and thought I'd missed any updates.

I have no advice. It is up to you and you can take your time, as you say.

Do you think things have changed so much that it'll never be the same again? Do you still love him dearly?

WeAreSeven Wed 25-Sep-13 13:48:49

Orm, you are worth ten of him.
Life isn't always as simple as LTB, I know that, but I have to almost sit on my hand not to type it!
You have been so strong and dignified throughout.

LeGavrOrf Wed 25-Sep-13 13:51:21

No matter what happens in the future, you know that you have given 100% in trying to fix things. You have tried your absolute best and you should be bloody proud of yourself.

motherinferior Wed 25-Sep-13 13:53:45

Oh, Orm, I am so glad you are happier.

I personally would biff him on the head

AnyFucker Wed 25-Sep-13 14:06:42

That old saying "be careful what you wish for" ?

That.

Sorry, Orm.

Inertia Wed 25-Sep-13 14:16:37

Sounds as though you weren't making his romantic drama the centre of attention anymore, so he's decided to dredge it all up again. Unless perhaps it's the precursor to something else (meeting up with her again to get 'closure', or another OW looming into view) and he's getting his groundwork in early?

When he said that he didn't love her after all, I'd have been tempted to respond that it'll make it even more of a waste of everyone's time if you decide to leave him anyway.

It sounds as if he's doing it to keep you on your toes somehow , or make it all about him as though only his feelings matter.

Hope th shoulder turns out to be nothing serious.

LeGavrOrf Wed 25-Sep-13 14:17:10

I'm sorry orm, I can't imagine any of this is easy to read.

OrmirianResurgam Wed 25-Sep-13 14:34:22

It's none of it a great shock getorf. Nothing I hadn't really thought many times.

LeGavrOrf Wed 25-Sep-13 14:39:02

I think though that you were right, you didn't decide to leave in a knee jerk way. Now you are a lot stronger and can look at what happened with a degree of distance.

The fact that he didn't deign to attend therapy for himself despite your wanting him to speaks volumes, I think.

And 'well I didn't love her anyway, fancy that' declaration must have felt like a massive kick in the teeth.

But - silver linings and all that crap, you are a LOT stronger. You know that if you decide to leave now you TRIED. And also you are not leaving when on a complete emotional roller coaster as you were last June.

MadAboutHotChoc Wed 25-Sep-13 15:09:51

What was the reason for him not going to IC? Did he do any reading (e,g Not Just Friends)? The cheater working on him/herself is a huge part of the post affair recovery process.

You do sound very sorted and strong. I so wish he is as sorted.

OrmirianResurgam Wed 25-Sep-13 15:18:48

He read Shirley Glass and a little 'remorse for morons' guide called something like 'How to help your spouse heal after you kicked them in the teeth' and then we both read a book called something like 'How to improve you marriage without talking about it'. Lots of reading. I suspect he won't do IC because once he starts dredging up the silt inside his head he won't be able to stop. Lots of childhood issues (hey who hasn't?). Dad who shat on his family and continued to do so for years in different ways.

Charbon Wed 25-Sep-13 15:58:06

I'm guessing then that you didn't force the issue of individual counselling because you wanted to see if he would do it of his own volition and take responsibility for it?

You're allowed to make a judgement about the fact that he hasn't. You're certainly seeing the effects now of his decision not to do it.

Not to detract from the value of a personal therapist because by the sounds of it he would have been unable to do this without one, but the bigger picture was to look at himself. The counselling is merely the vehicle with which to do that. It's the most difficult, but illuminating part of restoring a marriage after an affair. Couples counselling and reading a few books (one of which is just awful) are relatively easy things to do, but like anything low effort, the rewards aren't as high.

tethersend Wed 25-Sep-13 16:01:04

Hello Orm smile

I have bugger all useful advice, but am another who's glad to hear you're feeling stronger. Perhaps it just takes longer to make a decision than you thought. After all, when you think you are in danger of losing something, it becomes all you want- once the dust settles, you can rationally decide if you really want it or not

OrmirianResurgam Wed 25-Sep-13 16:51:07

Thanks all.

This has actually made me laugh at the sheer absurdity of the situation. Really!

<shakes head with disbelief>

I am going for a run. With dog.

BTW I am on a bit of a mini high today - I submitted my first photo to the camera club monthly competion and it was judged by a professional photographer last night. I scored 14 out of 20 and I was about half way up the class of much more experienced photographers. V chuffed grin

OrmirianResurgam Wed 25-Sep-13 16:55:36

BTW you lot are a breath of fresh air. Have spent far too long on a US-based relationship site reading about how MM are all really unhappy in their marriages when they have affairs because their wives are fat/harridans/sexless/ugly/have let themselves go and they only (the wives) have themselves to blame. And the OW is the love of their lives and MM only go back because of duty/money/the kids/the dog etc. It gets you down after a while hmm . And how the OW is used and abused.

It's all too serious and obsessive - like a endless round of wailing Motown songs about lurrrve and longing. I keep feeling the urge to go in an offer cyber slaps to make them all grow up a bit.

MissStrawberry Wed 25-Sep-13 17:04:21

Orm, I remember your initial threads. Full of pain. I can't believe it is so long ago.

WELL DONE on your photo.

A man who is 50 who says he would fall apart without you is either an immature idiot if it is true, God how does he get dressed in the morning?hmm, or an arch manipulator who is making it YOUR responsibility where his life goes from here. I am fairly sure you have some bona fido children. Do you want another one that is overgrown and doesn't smell as nice?

Vivacia Wed 25-Sep-13 17:56:51

Give us the name of one of these sites!

tessa6 Wed 25-Sep-13 18:21:53

Hi Orm, nice to see you back although I wish it wasn't under stressful emotional circumstances! The simple way to look at this is to see how predictable he is at rationalising and romanticising. Simply put, you and he have stayed together and so it COULDN'T have been love. I'm not saying it was in the first place, seems doubtful, but I think he's just building a narrative that makes sense to him. When he was considering leaving it had to be a grand love affair to justify it, now he has left it behind it has to look small and unimportant in the rear view window. If they HAD been massively in love, and her DH such a terrible tyrant, and then he'd just buggered off back to you, what would that have made him? A villain and a coward.

His feelings and rewritings of feelings are nothing more than emotional frames for the most flattering view of himself.

It's a way to live I suppose.

Orm we're on pretty much the same timetable so I remember you well from last summer. Keep strong, keep sane and follow your heart.

LeGavrOrf Wed 25-Sep-13 19:35:16

That is brilliant about the photo, well done, I haven't an artistic bone in my body so always envy those who are talented.

Those bloody sites you have been reading sound utterly awful. Don't believe any of that shit.

I remember your utter raw pain last year, it was difficult to read. You sound so much stronger and almost philosophical now. You should be bloody well proud of yourself for what you have pulled yourself through.

LeGavrOrf Wed 25-Sep-13 19:36:54

Reading books can be helpful however they are only useful on the surface, he could read all the scenarios and think 'this wasn't me' and be somewhat distant to it.

I could read books about my mental health til the cows come home,it is only talking to someone and accepting it which has enabled me to move forward.

AnyFucker Wed 25-Sep-13 19:37:33

Orm, why the Holy Hell have you been hanging out on sites like those ? confused

PAsSweetOrangeLurve Wed 25-Sep-13 19:54:02

Welcome back here then - pull up a chair and I will happily tell you about how you are too good for his cheating worthless arse.

Only you can decide what to do. But you sound as if you have experienced a watershed moment; if you leave, it's because you know it's the right thing for you. If you stay, then hopefully it will be on YOUR terms.

OrmirianResurgam Wed 25-Sep-13 20:01:16

Hey vivacia, try loveshack. Tis a cracker!! Particularly the Other man/woman forum. You begin to feel a bit like Alice through the looking glass after a while.

af - to try to get some insight I guess. Never been here before - I wondered what mindset allows this all to be OK. It certainly is an eye-opener.

AnyFucker Wed 25-Sep-13 20:22:53

Orm, if those sites are "helping" with your cognitive dissonance about the "prize" you won last year, fgs,, delete them from your consciousness....

MadAboutHotChoc Wed 25-Sep-13 20:30:08

Gav - yes, self help books are only useful if you intend to use these to work through your issues, by carrying out the suggested exercises and having discussions. Just reading will not do much to help.

As for those sites - I think you need to be desperate with very poor self esteem to think it is all ok.

perfectstorm Wed 25-Sep-13 20:35:28

Good to hear you're feeling better, Orm. flowers

The mindset that allows it all to be ok is a selfish entitled one.
And it's not justifiable. Do you not think that sometimes married women find it all a bit hard or get fed up? It's not a gender exclusive feeling and most people don't have affairs because of it. The only person to blame is himself, as he made that choice. It doesn't actually matter how he was feeling/why he did it because it was not ok

Hope after this process of rebuilding etc you manage to leave him. He deserves less than nothing from you.

(Not having a pop at you by the way. Just can't believe a site like that exists. It must make it so much more painful for already hurt women. Grr. Hope you're feeling ok this morning brew )

OrmirianResurgam Thu 26-Sep-13 10:50:17

Hi orc

I am feeling pretty good actually. In one way his little fantasy escape has done wonders for me. I have got off my arse and sorted myself out. It hurt like hell, for a long time, but it spurred me on to make things better for me. I was stuck in a familiar unchanging pit of depression, boredom and low self-esteem. Not there any more.

I've become semi-detached from H. I think I can carry on like this indefintely. We have nice sex, we take care of each other, we talk about things, we look after the kids together, we have a laugh, we do our seperate things nut we also make time to go out together. It is OK, really I enjoy my life. But I am not in love with him - that was knocked on the head by his actions. Stupid sod.

I ought to thank OW really. Perhaps I will wink

LeGavrOrf Thu 26-Sep-13 11:47:54

Have you told him that? That because of his actions you are not in love with him?

But orm, even if you are happy as you are please don't short change yourself. I know you have kids and a settled life and it's comfortable, but wouldn't you like to have that comfort and add to that someone who you are deeply in love with? I am more pragmatic than romantic but I couldn't and wouldn't go through years alongside someone I quite emphatically knew I didn't love dearly. And trust and respect.

Tomorrow you will wake up and you will be 62 and do you still want to be alongside someone you are not in love with? Plus do you think your calm and happy acceptance of this is going to last for years and years? I am sure it will corrode over time.

You sound incredibly together and sensible, and it's extraordinary that you can now wryly laugh at it, seeing how utterly devastated you were last year. But don't be too sensible to your detriment.

LeGavrOrf Thu 26-Sep-13 11:49:06

I reckon you should tell him you are not in love with him any more.

How do you think he would react?

Lweji Thu 26-Sep-13 12:23:15

That would be so ironic. smile

Oh, I realise I wasn't in love with the OW after all.

Interesting dear, I have also realised I'm not in love with you either.

LeGavrOrf Thu 26-Sep-13 12:24:36

Yes. Right back atcha, motherfucker. grin

OrmirianResurgam Thu 26-Sep-13 12:25:35

Oh I still love him. A great deal. But I'm not in love with him. That feeling has come and gone over the years as I beleive is normal. But it's gone now..for good I suspect.

orm be careful. I think you are still in love with him, but are a little high on the power you now have in the relationship. He gave her up for you. He says he didn't love her. He wants you. So you're saying hey well I'm here, but you know what, I'm not in love with you sucker so look out.

Either invest, or ship out. Don't mess with your head or his head. It's called playing with fire and you'll get hurt.

I mean this kindly. I'm more or less exactly the same period on from discovery as you. I totally understand the emotional roller coaster.

MissStrawberry Thu 26-Sep-13 13:37:08

Is that what you are happy to settle for the rest of your life though, Orm?

Wouldn't you like the chance to be in love again?

It may be that some people fall in and out of love for their spouses but still love them but really I would say it is incredibly hard to get that feeling back when they have trampled all over you so harshly and then just brazenly, calmly, without inhibition and thought they tell you I didn't love the woman I fucked you and the kids over for after all.

OrmirianResurgam Thu 26-Sep-13 13:59:22

"Wouldn't you like the chance to be in love again? "

I don't know. I haven't felt that gut churning, high as a kite feeling for anyone for so long so I guess I can live without it. Perhaps we just have different ideas of 'being in love'.

Snugglepiggy Thu 26-Sep-13 17:31:39

3 years on for me ORM and everything you say speaks volumes to me.And reading your posts last year my situation was less messy in a way because once found out DH didn't mess me around to the extent yours did,and he didn't tell the OW he loved her.Don't think for a minute he did,just having a massive MLC and enjoying having his ego stroked.
Like you life goes on and I the main is good.We make a great team practically ,which is just as well as we work together.Or sex life is good.Always was,and he agrees.Although our DCs are grown up we are a close loving family and we see them lots.We have a laugh.We have great friends.But.Oh yes but.Like you I love him and care about him.But something inside me died,and that semi detached ,numb feeling sadly remains a lot of the time.I miss feeling totally in love with him.I get odd glimmers of it coming back and Im not going anywhere any day soon.
But I just miss it.All the best to you.

MissStrawberry Thu 26-Sep-13 19:20:36

We can all live without lots of things but choose not too because they add to our life.

I feel you are in a kind of shock and fog and maybe aren't thinking clearly.

He sounds like a knob who doesn't deserve you.

MadAboutHotChoc Thu 26-Sep-13 19:38:17

Snuggle - your situation sounds like mine, except I would say the love I have for my DH has been changed by loss of innocence and blind trust.

Op, all the best from here too.

Badvoc Thu 26-Sep-13 19:44:58

Oh orm.
What a sad situation.
You so deserve to fall head over heels for someone and feel something again.

Boosterseat Thu 26-Sep-13 20:39:48

Orm please back away from the websites!!!

Its the easy route to blame the other person, introspection and personal development are traits of strong, capable individuals like yourself not the selfish,cheating "woe is me" twunts posting crap on those boards.

A child is your dependant, not your partner. The clue is in the name. Partners want to encourage, enjoy and develop. Parasites feed off a host.

Love for me ORM is passion,admiration and respect. You are strong and you are worthy,you should expect all 3.

flowers

Oblomov Thu 26-Sep-13 20:51:45

My post diss appeared. Was thinking about you Orm. Then, suddenly , your thread was there.
So glad you are feeling better.
But all sorts of things just don't seem quite right.
But then, you know that, don't you?

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