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Dumped - not 'spiritual' enough

(270 Posts)
redundantandbitter Tue 24-Sep-13 00:11:24

A month ago When DP went to 'healing' camp he loved me .. When he came back he had experienced a 'spiritual awakening' and has recently said he feels the need to end it all with me, after 4 years, to start a relationship with a yoga teacher... Yeah it would be funny if it was a Victoria Wood sketch.. Unfortunately it's my life. I absolutely adore the man. He freely admits he loves me but HAS to follow this path as he feels he has met her in a previous life and its destiny. He can't see that having a lot in common with someone is called co-incidence. We don't live together, he's 43yrs , and in a very pressured front line job. We have always been very close emotionally, loving, great sex, besotted, tactile. I genuinely can't see where I went wrong...

JoinYourPlayfellows Tue 24-Sep-13 00:14:30

You went wrong spending 4 years with a complete tosser.

His "spiritual awakening" is that he met someone he fancies more than he fancies you.

You haven't gone wrong

He's a twat. And you were lucky to get away.

He can dress it up in knitted yoghurt and Tibetan bells but the fact remains he cheated and he left.

Poor you sad

expatinscotland Tue 24-Sep-13 00:17:32

He's joined a cult. Stay well away!

LemonDrizzled Tue 24-Sep-13 00:19:52

Hi R&D have a wine

Your DP is a twit and thinking with his genitalia. He is following the age old script and will find every fault with you because his head has been turned by Yoga Lady.

You are entitled to feel hurt, to cry and rant, but ultimately this is not how a DP behaves. Let him go and find someone who deserves you!

JoinYourPlayfellows Tue 24-Sep-13 00:20:18

Yeah, the cult of I'm So Brilliant.

Hookedonclassics Tue 24-Sep-13 00:22:54

Get some flower petals, scatter them in a circle. Get some sage, use it to "smudge" the circle space. Say "DPtwat is a tosser" three times. Step out of the circle. All the bad spirits will fly to him while you will be left cleansed and healed.....

Load of new-age bollocks - just like he is telling you.

You didn't go wrong, you have been liberated from a tosser!

WeAreSeven Tue 24-Sep-13 00:24:11

You have to hand it to him, of all the pathetic, snivelling, shitty excuses these guys come up with, it's fairly, if not totally original!
He might be a spiritual cheating nobber but he's still a cheating nobber. No doubt Yoga Lady will find out the same in due course.
wine and cake lady!

redundantandbitter Tue 24-Sep-13 00:25:00

Ok...bear with me.. He hasn't started this relationship yet.., thinks that by ending it with me.. Having a break...is better to avoid 'overlap' . I know he hasn't physically done anything but mentally it's all there so it's hotel/motel all the same really. I must add that we both left our long term
Partners for each other and it's hell and back ... Only just reaching a calm place in the past few months. He's supposed to be mindful and all 'meditation' but quite frankly I feel like the one who is centred and caring..., he is soooooo self absorbed... When I have visited him to talk.., he just cries. I have tried to pitch sensible words to him.., to end it nicely...be friends etc... But he's like an emotional
Bull in a china shop, crashing about causing maximum damage. I am in shock, lost weight, can't eat, even my period came a week early... Totally freaked myself out with the stress but got to remain calm exterior.. Have 2 DC who adore him. Can't bear to tell them

tethersend Tue 24-Sep-13 00:29:53

I bet when her met you, he HAD to be with you, right? Just like he HAS to be with her now.

He's just a drama queen.

And a cunt.

A drama cunt, if you will.

dysfunctionallynormal Tue 24-Sep-13 00:32:42

ditto what expatinscotland said.

any decent, genuine spiritual teacher would have told him that is NOT how it works. i'm a spiritualist but i wouldn't go running off with the first person i felt some "connection" or "familiarity" with.

i think he's either been brainwashed - in which case i would be worried, or (more likely) he's using his new found "awakening" as a cowardly excuse to get his leg over some new "totty". sorry. he sounds like a cowardly and pathetic excuse for a man who's dealing with his mid-life crisis very badly.

you deserve better. and you WILL find better. let him go xxx

redundantandbitter Tue 24-Sep-13 00:32:58

Funnily enough , tethersend, I got an email from him going on about how he was feeling etc... I sent him one back saying 'stop being such a bloody drama queen' ...

bragmatic Tue 24-Sep-13 00:32:59

I'm so sorry.

I think you should back right off and avoid all contact. See what happens when he comes to his senses. Hopefully by then you'll have realised he's not worth it. Rip off the bandaid and move on.

LemonDrizzled Tue 24-Sep-13 00:33:17

This maybe was an exit relationship for you both, and not a long term prospect. He sounds exhausting and if you can swallow your pride and admit that you broke up a long term relationship for someone who is a knobber then you can move on.

Think of life without a sobbing drama cunt in it. (Love that tether! smile )

redundantandbitter Tue 24-Sep-13 00:36:55

Today is the first day I haven't contacted him. I simply ran out of words. I can't stop being a loving person though. That would mean his crap 'unspiritual'
Actions were affecting my ability to be a good person. I don't rant or swear... Just confused by the completely lame excuse. You would die laughing if you knew what he did for a living .

whitesugar Tue 24-Sep-13 00:46:07

R&B I am sorry you are going through this, its not nice when a relationship breaks down and I hope you get over it without too much pain. I do think that he is treating you badly by hiding behind the spiritual awakening crap. He should have more respect for you and be honest. Well done for not contacting him, keep it up! I have a feeling that he is a policeman.

Lottystar Tue 24-Sep-13 00:48:31

There is being a good person and being a "mug". Sorry to be blunt and I know it's easy for us to judge from the outside with no emotional ties but he sounds like an emotional, draining leech of a man. "Spiritual awakening" my arse. If he truly cared for you he would not treat you in this cruel way. Step back, deep breath and chin up. You sound like a lovely lady withy a lot more.

Lottystar Tue 24-Sep-13 00:49:59

*worth a lot more, even.

Lottystar Tue 24-Sep-13 00:51:40

*worthy of a lot more, even.

redundantandbitter Tue 24-Sep-13 01:00:08

Thanks...no, not a policeman. I know what I would say if I were reading my own post but he really is the most gorgeous man... But he seems to be on self destruct.. And hurting me in the process. I am feeling a bit stronger and protecting myself but I feel all this is so immature and unnecessary . What happened to 'think about what you HAVE got, and not what you haven't.. He has done this before (with ex w)... There's a pattern , yes I did point it out to him. I feel a total dick.

dysfunctionallynormal Tue 24-Sep-13 01:06:16

If he contacts you again.....tell him that behaving the way he has done and by not treating you and what you had together with respect (deliberately hurting you) he has only created more bad karma for himself-and it will follow him around- it's true! Let's see how he deals with that one!

EBearhug Tue 24-Sep-13 01:18:31

Does yoga lady have any idea he's planning to start a relationship with her, or is it all in his head?

dysfunctionallynormal Tue 24-Sep-13 01:20:46

Yoga 'lady' needs a kick in the yoni!

Leavenheath Tue 24-Sep-13 01:20:46

Take away all the spiritualism and woo stuff, because it's just smoke and mirrors.

What you're left with is a unreconstructed cheat. He cheated with you, he cheated on you.

Of course something has already happened with this other woman. Something had happened with you before he left his former partner, hadn't it? He wouldn't have left her if he wasn't sure of the package you were offering.

Same old, same old.

He's especially manipulative because he can't think of himself as an ordinary cheat. No, he needs to dress it up as needing to 'find himself' or 'following his spiritual destiny'.

How can you have any respect for this complete charlatan?

He is not gorgeous and he's not on a path of self-destruct. He's just an average cheat who's thinking with his nether regions (not his ^spiritual mind^) and is happy to destroy you and the kids to get his fix of new sex.

Bollocks to you having to be 'spiritual' in your response. Get angry instead, but use that anger well and tell him you no longer want him and wish to get on with your life.

If you've got financial commitments, hold him to them. Spiritualism doesn't butter any parsnips, as no doubt Victoria Wood would say. It doesn't pay the mortgage either.

whitesugar Tue 24-Sep-13 01:29:02

I agree that you do need to get angry. Don't humour this spiritual awakening lark, he is just getting his leg over. Apologies for being so brutal. I am not convinced that he is self destructing either. He seems to be coming out of it extremely well. If he loves you as much as he says he does he wouldn't leave you. Try to focus your energy on looking after yourself so that you get through this tough time. He doesn't deserve your concern and doesn't seem to be worrying about you.

ageofgrandillusion Tue 24-Sep-13 02:56:32

Healing camp? What an absolute poncey bell end. You're well rid of this gloit.

Rummikub Tue 24-Sep-13 03:14:57

He is a twat, pure and simple. Don't waste anymore energy on him. Use it on yourself to recover and move on. This is harsh but he has form for this type of behaviour, he didnt love you enough. He is not confused. You did not do anything wrong. This will take awhile to sink in as it came out of the blue. Please get angry with him and cut him out of your life.

ButterMyArse Tue 24-Sep-13 03:25:54

He's dressing up his need to go and shag someone else in a cloak of spiritual guff.

I bet he'll be disappointed when he finds out that underneath her flowing garments and her chi, Yoga Teacher is just a normal person like the rest of us, who owns grey granny pants and worries about bills and has hair that clogs the drain.

I know it's easy to say this but you're well rid, OP.

bragmatic Tue 24-Sep-13 03:47:33

Let's see how spiritual he thinks his new partner is when she farts in the downward dog.

superstarheartbreaker Tue 24-Sep-13 03:56:10

Your well rid. My abusive ex was 'spiritual' as was his awful mum. In fact it was a mask to conceal the fact they are both twats.
Yoga teacher , if she knows about you, is a twat too.

rootypig Tue 24-Sep-13 04:06:17

he's 43yrs , and in a very pressured front line job.

Christ, this could have been my dad at this age, his choice of cult was Anthony Robbins hmm. A friend's DF found religion (after using sex workers - or rather, getting caught using sex workers).

My point is, it's a mid life crisis. Not his first, by the sounds of it.

Re you both leaving your partners previously. A writer I like, Pema Chodron, says don't let yourself fall apart - the next time it will be easier. Shades of that here. Leaving his partner has quite possibly become his vehicle for coping with emotional strife.

(Pema is great, by the way, American Buddhist monk but don't let that put you off. She recounts her husband telling her of his infidelity, and reaching for a rock to chuck at him. She is somewhat Mumsnet, I think).

I know it will be hard because of all you've gone through and invested for this relationship, but let him fuck off with this yoga teacher. Don't be tempted to stay to make the last four years worth it. You'll only lose another four. Your life will be better without his emotional crap in it. You will have so much more energy for yourself.

The only yoga teacher I know personally is a total twunt who smells. It's a sample of one, to be fair.

Lazyjaney Tue 24-Sep-13 07:18:03

Hold on a minute...on MN the mantra is to tell your DP first that you want out, before embarking on the next relationship. Whether it's spiritual discovery or "it's not you, it's me" or whatever is irrelevant.

By these standards this guy has done all the right things, yet is still being called a cunt, twat, manipulative etc by the selfsame people. No wonder most people just get on with affairs, if you're going to be hung it may as well be for the whole sheep.

Yes it's hurtful, but both OP and DP are independent agents, there is no marriage, they don't even live together! This reminds me of my teenage years, and I'm sure the OP will survive.

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 24-Sep-13 07:26:23

'Spiritual Awakening'? .... well it's original. I'm sorry it's over but, if you don't live together after 4 years, that's probably because he was always keeping his options open

saferniche Tue 24-Sep-13 07:57:09

You've been released by the Universe to enjoy something more nourishing wink Don't feel sad, feel lucky. In fact, feel blessed. May I suggest a laughing meditation?

JoinYourPlayfellows Tue 24-Sep-13 09:28:19

"By these standards this guy has done all the right things, yet is still being called a cunt, twat, manipulative etc by the selfsame people."

He's being called a cunt because he sounds like a total knobber.

You can do everything by the book and still be an objectionable, pretentious, arrogant bellend.

I think most of us are saying he's done her a massive favour with his latest "spiritual awakening".

jobwoes Tue 24-Sep-13 10:28:58

Intrigued to know what your (ex) 'D' P does for a living, OP. Second everybody who's said he's a knob and you're well-rid, and sorry this is happening to you.

MadBusLady Tue 24-Sep-13 10:36:57

That would mean his crap 'unspiritual' actions were affecting my ability to be a good person.

sad Please don't confuse "good person" with "martyr". Don't stay friends with him and don't listen to him ramble on trying to justify himself. It's over. Time for you to have a bit of healing now. He gave up his right to emotional support from you when he decided to run off with Mrs Downward Dog.

ageofgrandillusion Tue 24-Sep-13 10:42:33

So what does he do Op? Is he a copper?

EugenesAxe Tue 24-Sep-13 10:46:43

Wow! What a tit. Move on, move on. My first love (strike that, I didn't love him just thought he was a good kisser) dumped me because his Christian councillors were worried I was exposing him to demons or something. Fortunately I was only 16 and had rhino hide instead of skin, so when he told me I just gave a little chuckle and said 'OK then, fair enough.'

He requested to be friends with me on FB; his posts are the dullest ever things and he is, really, quite a prat. I know his wife and she's lovely, clever and sensible; I kind of think she must feel embarrassed by him sometimes.

Matildathecat Tue 24-Sep-13 11:10:16

Different angle here. My SIL went in a similar 'camp' a few years back, run by a Korean group. She knew the leader as shed been going to her classes for a while.

Anyway, this camp was a total brainwash and SIL was horrified. She actually injured herself badly on the first day but was convinced to return the next day without treatment. She is NOT the vulnerable type. She did on the second day find the strength to leave but saw a lot of others getting sucked in. They wanted money, btw. We never found out how many signed up but they were incredibly persuasive.

She had ruptured her Achilles' tendon and was in a boot for months.

So, just saying that it's possible something similar is going on here.

Hope you sort things out.

redundantandbitter Tue 24-Sep-13 11:16:51

Thanks for the posts.., it stops me contacting him... I feel
Like a deer in the headlights.., standing horrified and saying WTF? He's not being brain washed but I DO think
He wants it up be like camp all the time... Like a holiday romance... But she is like me..., 2 kids, single parent, wrong side of 40, she will be juggling jobs, childcare, money etc like the rest of us. And he doesn't like with me coz he needs to be within walking distance of his kids and supports ex wife with ongoing health issues. It means we plan ahead and are keen to see each other, don't watch TV.. Just talk and enjoy the intimacy. It's such a shame . He's a complete fool. Poo

DioneTheDiabolist Tue 24-Sep-13 11:28:21

Is he a counsellor or a vicar?

redundantandbitter Tue 24-Sep-13 11:33:56

So,, he has emailed me... All light hearted.. Kind of.. Speaking but not saying anything as is normal.. Says it's "been a privilege to know me... Carrys me with him.., I know him
Better than anyone.. Calls himself 'the ditherer'' .." , dont worry, not responding. Will wait for him to get a bit lonelier

Yougotbale Tue 24-Sep-13 11:50:20

You didn't do anything wrong. If he wants to move on, he can, it's his choice. Although, that doesn't make it easier for you. It sounds like you weren't suited. This will work out better for you in the long run

FunnyRunner Tue 24-Sep-13 11:50:34

I'm interested that you've only just reached a 'calm place' together in the last few months ie no more drama. So he's gone and created some! He seems to love a bit of drama hmm

Steer well clear. Do not engage, even when you ignoring him lures him back. This man will keep destroying things (including his own happiness and yours) until he gets to the bottom of how he's behaving. You can't make him do that.

I imagine he's a counsellor / psychotherapist or similar.

Not much to add, because everyone else has said it all so articulately!

And you're right ... away from the peaceful yoga retreat atmosphere, he'll find he'll have entered a realm as chaotic and frantic as the one he has left behind, (no offence meant redundant, that's just the reality of life innit juggling work, childcare, housework, relationships and free-time fun things) and will probably end up regretting it, not that you should consider getting back with him if / when he does flowers

Dahlen Tue 24-Sep-13 12:08:41

Lazy - I think TBF the reason the OP's X is getting such a hard time is because his excuse is just so incredibly 'wet'. Not to diss yoga or any other form of spirituality, but it does sound like naval-gazing of the highest order based on what the OP has said.

But you're right. It's always better to end one relationship before embarking on another - assuming that is what he's done.

OP, I know it doesn't feel like it now, but IMO you've had a lucky escape. Anyone who was truly in love with you would not have had their head swayed at a healing camp. If he has, he is either easily influenced or never really loved you in the first place. Both may hurt now, but once you're over it you will have a far happier life without him.

redundantandbitter Tue 24-Sep-13 12:22:41

Easily influenced.., campfires..late at night... I can imagine how good that is.. But it makes me look at what I have...and not what I haven't...

Dahlen Tue 24-Sep-13 12:32:09

Possibly an indication that you're perspectives on life are somewhat incompatible. His kind of fault-finding with his current life when presented with something shiny and new does not make for easy companionship.

redundantandbitter Tue 24-Sep-13 12:32:32

Funny runner - i put it to him that it feels like we have just reached a calm rooted place and he has picked up the snow globe and shook it hard... Just to create a storm. .. He didn't like that ... But it crossed my mind. His ex W was always in a crisis/drama of some sort or another.. Not sure if he's just used to it. Drives me nuts.

coppertop Tue 24-Sep-13 12:33:47

My guess is that the e-mails are designed to keep you on-side for when the drama and angst of the Great Yoga Love wears off.

It sounds as though he loves the thrill of a good drama, and what better way to extend it than to have you there to listen to him weep and wail about it all.

redundantandbitter Tue 24-Sep-13 14:12:57

His ex w took kids camping earlier this year and 'made friends' up with a dad for the duration... And I can imagine DP mooning round yoga lady at camp
With his kids... I feel sorry that these 2 teen girls are watching their parents ... How embarrassing no?

Leavenheath Tue 24-Sep-13 14:34:44

No.

Assuming she's single now and the bloke was single too, I'd have thought her teenagers would be only too delighted that their mum had some interesting adult male company after the way their father treated her.

Embarrassed by their father? Hell yes. Who wouldn't be?

whitesugar Tue 24-Sep-13 14:44:44

Absolutely mortifying! Believe me he won't be so zen when her teenage DDs challenge him. Teenage girls miss nothing and can size up a person in about .05 seconds. Good luck to him on that score. I know it is hard on you but honestly one day you will realise you are better off. If he could leave you so quickly and unexpectedly on such a whim it really was a matter of time before it happened.

It serems like you had a very close relationship and it won't be easy for you to get over it but you will one day. Try your best to be kind to yourself over the next while and lean on others for support. You sound like a lovely person. I obviously don't know you but it doesn't sound like you did anything wrong to cause this break up. He is responsible for that and he probably will really regret it when he realises that this new relationship is not perfect either.

Priceliss Tue 24-Sep-13 14:49:37

Sounds like a prick your better off rid sounds like a mid life crisis.

What's next he'll be wearing his hat backwards saying "yo" with his spiritual awakening??

redundantandbitter Tue 24-Sep-13 14:54:39

White sugar- your words made me cry.... Take it Fromm that's not a good look while standing at school gates! Thank you for being kind.

garlicbaguette Tue 24-Sep-13 14:55:04

Agreed, you sound like a lovely person. Agreed, too, that self-kindness and self-forgiveness are the way forward here. Do NOT, under any circumstances, stop being "a loving person", as that makes you poorly. Please DO, under all circumstances, appreciate the tremendous value of your love, and use it wisely. He doesn't need it: he's got a spiritual soap opera going on, all of his own, and that seems to be his chosen path. Set him free, with loving forgiveness, for his own separate future. It sounds as if you had some wonderful times together; those times are still part of you - cherish the memories, and stay mindful in the present moment. There are opportunities to learn here, and to focus lovingly on your own individual path.

I imagine his daughters will be more than happy to have you in their lives, without their dad. He's a bit of a twerp, when all's said and done, isn't he?

Onesleeptillwembley Tue 24-Sep-13 14:55:13

You've had a lucky escape! It seems quite unanimous that he sounds a complete pillock. Breathe in, move on and thank your lucky stars. In 6 months or so you'll look back and think 'what the FUCK was I thinking?'.

whitesugar Tue 24-Sep-13 14:57:44

Oh no, you will start me off now! No matter how bad you feel put your head up high and your shoulders back and walk around like you own the planet. You will survive this x

cjel Tue 24-Sep-13 15:03:53

Hello OP, I don't think you need to get angry if you don't want to!! Have you considered asking him not to contact you any more? everything seems to be about him doesn't it?
Stay strong lovely ladyxx

Priceliss Tue 24-Sep-13 15:04:04

Redundant - If it helps you at all I was engaged up until only 4 months ago. I was madly in love thought she was my life partner. We spoke everyday on phone hardly any drama, got on well, knew my family and friends she was my everything (I'm a female to avoid confusion :D) and one day she calls me tells me she will marry a Muslim man to stay in the UK (she is from Dubai originally) she didn't love me and to move on.

I honestly thought I would die and could never move on. The pain and betrayal was like nothing I ever felt in my life. 2 months later she contacts me and wants to be "friends". I can say it's been the hardest thing I ever went through I will never ever forget but what everyone is saying is right - If someone can walk out of your life that easy and be such a tosser they REALLY are not worth it. You ARE worth something and you will find that person for you that will see it. You WILL. xx

whitesugar Tue 24-Sep-13 15:08:06

Garlic, your advice is profound and loving and applies to me too at the moment albeit in relation to a totally different scenario than R&Bs. Apologies for cross post but I have been spending the day thinking up the meanest things I can say to someone who has really pissed me off. Thanks to your words I can feel the meanness slipping away. Apols again R&B for cross post.

Kamchatka Tue 24-Sep-13 15:29:32

He seems exactly like some of the people I've known through life who describe themselves as spiritual. It really is a word which describes selfishness and an almost complete sloughing off of responsibility for one's actions.

I would guess that the relationship was waning for him anyway, for whatever reason, and this is his crisis about that working its way out.
He needn't be a bad person, just a very deluded and self-involved one who is dressing up his guilt (at wanting to end it with you) in language that suggests it was slightly out of his own control. It's weak, but at least it's unambiguous and I wish you the best in leaving this behind and being able to laugh about him (over and over again) in future.

Leavenheath Tue 24-Sep-13 15:39:01

It's fine if you don't actually feel angry, but it's not fine if you're suppressing anger because of some misogynistic belief that women should be calm and serene in the face of treachery, or because you feel compelled to be as 'spiritual' as the OW, or not as 'dramatic' as his (perfectly healthy sounding) ex-wife.

Anger is good if it's productive. Don't suppress it.

garlicbaguette Tue 24-Sep-13 15:44:20

Whitesugar - That's lovely, and I really appreciate your feedback smile

sittinginthesun Tue 24-Sep-13 15:47:48

Sounds to me as if he needs drama in his life - my sister is similar. We've watched her lurch from one passion to another over the years, but all know what the end result will be.

You dont have to feel anger yet. It's like a bereavement - there are many stages, including denial, guilt etc and anger. Just keep busy, keep your distance and lean on your friends.

redundantandbitter Tue 24-Sep-13 16:22:37

Tbh I am really not angry.. Just really disappointed... You can't follow or watch your partner.. You allow them to go off and breathe and live and do their own thing.. Then you hook up and tell each other about your week or whatever.. But you trust they will see bright shiny people everywhere... You have to say 'hi, but no thanks' to the shiny people .. Someone crossed my path last year... I told my DP and we shared a laugh etc. ..I batted it away .. Seems he is unable to do the same thing. His email indicates he's still 'dithering'... Oh and last time I saw him he said he wasn't sure about seeing me again in case he 'back slides' ... What a horrible term to use about a real person ... Someone that still loves him.. Back slide my arse!!!

LessMissAbs Tue 24-Sep-13 16:37:29

Bloody hell, he sounds irritating. While such behaviour might, just might be excusable in a young man who has a passion for excelling in sport or similar, and who has met someone else who lives the same lifestyle and has the same interests, there is something very bleurgh about a 43 yo who simultaneously discovers yoga and a Great Love.

DH (before he was DH) went through a phase where he took up yoga and became very stupid at the same time. I actually left him because I simply couldn't look at him with a straight face any more, and met a young mountain biker instead. That galvanised DH to propose...

I warned him that any future yogic episodes would result in similar dismissal, as would any tendency to dance...

LTB.

MadBusLady Tue 24-Sep-13 16:40:59

where he took up yoga and became very stupid at the same time

pmsl

OP, he gets more of a selfish manipulative crawler every time you post! Can you block his email? Or at least forward them automatically to a folder marked Dithery Yogic Twat so you can read them in your own time, if at all? Otherwise your heart's going to lurch every time he dumps a load more of his Very Important Feelings on you.

sisterofmercy Tue 24-Sep-13 16:43:09

I agree with Kamchatka. I've known a few people like this. Their kind of spirituality seems only focussed on making themselves feel better ('self discovery') and can be at the expense of anyone else. It's very self-indulgent. There's no real discipline, rules or community building/involvement. No real life altering sacrifice to be a better person.

If he's only got into this sort of thing recently, I'd imagine he's going through some kind of mid-life crisis where he wants to recapture some of the excitement and romance of youth. He's scared of getting old. Unfortunately young teenagers don't have dependants and partners to tread all over and the damage of a grown adult behaving that way is not acknowledged by him/her.

redundantandbitter Tue 24-Sep-13 16:48:52

Priceliss - that sounds like an horrific experience . You poor thing... I hope you are feeling stronger and looking to the sun x.

Patosshades Tue 24-Sep-13 16:58:07

How annoying for you OP, with the "dithering" shite he's spouting in his emails. It sounds to me like he's trying to keep you in the wings in case the new lady love of his spiritual life doesn't work out so well.

Back slide my arse!!! I couldn't have phrased it any better myself grin

BitOutOfPractice Tue 24-Sep-13 17:01:32

Oh OP I'm so sorry you are being faced with this pain. It nearly kills you doesn't it? The realisation that the man you adored and thought was the one for you turns out to be an entitled shallow idiot.

I was where you are just last year. I honestly thought it would kill me. But it didn't. It made me stronger and wiser and made me a better person. And this will do the same for you too. even though it's so hard to see that now I know.

I LOVED what garlicbaguette said here

"Set him free, with loving forgiveness, for his own separate future. It sounds as if you had some wonderful times together; those times are still part of you - cherish the memories, and stay mindful in the present moment. There are opportunities to learn here, and to focus lovingly on your own individual path."

Sounds sufficently yoga-y to counteract his "awakening" but really is so true. When you are ready, let him go from your heart and move forward.

I wish you all the best, you sound lovely

lavenderhoney Tue 24-Sep-13 18:43:18

Well, you sound very nice, but don't let him love bomb you with " finding himself" emails etc to make him feel better. Write back and say he is fucking with your karma and to leave you alone.

Thank goodness he didn't move in tbh, you don't have to worry on that score. You've done nothing wrong, so tell your dc when they ask where he is, that you are taking a break from each other, and spend some time with them enjoying yourselves.

Breaking up is awful, but allowing him to prolong it will make it worse. Take charge, be brisk and have your own mantra of "fake it til you make it" look on it as a learning curve for your dc- how to manage your life when its crap.

garlicbaguette Tue 24-Sep-13 18:50:24

Write back and say he is fucking with your karma and to leave you alone.

Love it! smile

Gingerandcocoa Tue 24-Sep-13 18:53:15

Dodged a bullet.

THE CHEEKY FUCKER shock

So you're telling us that he's talking about dithering as in changing his mind?? Err, you don't have the option to backslide, you selfish cunt.

What on earth makes him think you'd have him back after all this?

You may love him but he doesn't deserve it and it'll fade in time, especially whilst you watch him flounder with the consequences of his poorly made decisions. Good bloody riddance I'd say hmm

(and if he did this before he started navel gazing got 'spiritual' then surely that just shows you what he actually is rather than whatever you thought he was?

redundantandbitter Tue 24-Sep-13 19:33:46

I did have the 'karma' conversation.. Told him that cockroaches lead good lives...

comingintomyown Tue 24-Sep-13 19:58:18

I always think any bloke in the future would need to be kind of spiritual like they wouldnt leave toe nail clippings in a pile or watch every game of premiership football but I've changed my mind

"drama cunt" love it !

redundantandbitter Tue 24-Sep-13 22:33:30

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone that posted... Funny how everyone thinks he's a knob... Well that's the end of day 2 with no contact from me. It's getting easier. Sorry to all of you out there that have had similar pants situations. I don't understand the need to inflict shed loads of pain when it could all be done in a more kind and civilised way. If I've learned anything from this relationship it's 'be patient, be kind and be gentle'. Thanks again ladies x

ZZZenagain Tue 24-Sep-13 22:36:59

stay strong and keep your distance. Don't let him go on about all this and his spiritual awakening and past life etc. There's a reason why we all don't think much of him I am afraid.

BitOutOfPractice Tue 24-Sep-13 22:41:30

I think the consensus was actually "self-absorbed knob" OP wink

Well done on the NC. IT's sooooo tough but every day will get easier xx

tribpot Tue 24-Sep-13 22:54:17

I can't believe the back-slide comment. What a self-obsessed arse bucket. Not to mention fucking rude.

I hope in all the being mindful and all that there's an opportunity either:
- to point out that his choice of language is extremely hurtful to you, who by his own admission have not contributed to the break-up
- to tell him to go fuck himself.

I think it would be wise to be clear with him that there's no coming back from this. He may think he's dithering but you are not.

TotallyBursar Wed 25-Sep-13 05:04:09

I slightly disagree with WhiteSugar when she says your relationship sounded 'close'. I think it sounded intense. Intense and central to some drama. Close and intense are very different beasts.
It sounds like that's a key indicator of who he is. Maybe who you were for a little while?

Dramacunt - that's the post I was going to write until I was beaten to it grin I doubt I would have coined such a good descriptor though sad.

Otherwise what a lovely post it was from WS.

Keep going with the no contact, you deserve so much more than sitting on the back ring of the hob in case he wants leftovers. Honestly 'backsliding' the ditherer, quite frankly he makes it very clear how much respect he holds for you as a person - you can't polish a turd, you may be able to roll it in glitter till it shines but you still end up stinking of shit - time to wash your hands.

Kamchatka Wed 25-Sep-13 06:33:16

OP you're great. He does in all honesty sound like a knob, but then which of us hasn't fallen for a knob at one time or another?

Anniegetyourgun Wed 25-Sep-13 07:56:38

Wondering vaguely which came first, Yoga Woman or the sudden desire to go to a retreat. <cynical>

If it's any consolation, he seems to have about a four-year attention span for relationships, so expect Ms Yoga to be history in about three-and-three-quarters.

redundantandbitter Wed 25-Sep-13 11:38:04

He's always been into yoga.. Went to camp
Last year also.... He was married for 15 yrs previous to leaving wife/ meeting me ...no record of even looking at another woman. I just wonder if I was too easy. He has obviously just opened a bin bag of his possessions that I returned (ever practical!) over a week ago.., he's emailed to say I've retuned the nice t-shirt he gave me for my birthday in June. Like I don't know??? I meSnt to! How can I wear something that reminds me of a brilliant weekend away ? Doh. He readily has no idea. None whatsoever. Self obsessed... Me me me...someone posted 'how tiring and draining' ... Yes he is, was, still love him. Poo

Patosshades Wed 25-Sep-13 11:45:56

No you weren't too easy. On whose say so have you that he never looked at other women over the course of the marriage? He's shown he can't be trusted.

onefewernow Wed 25-Sep-13 12:00:27

If there is only one thing worse than a cheating twat, it had to be one with a spiritual new age veneer.

Honestly.

extracrunchy Wed 25-Sep-13 12:02:46

LAME!! You're better of running for the hills!

extracrunchy Wed 25-Sep-13 12:02:55

Off

redundantandbitter Thu 26-Sep-13 08:00:11

So he tweeted this at midnight .."You can't alter which way the wind is blowing, but you can learn how to adjust your sails accordingly". #mindfulness. He truly believes that he can't control his direction and something else more powerful is blowing him along. I know you all think its guff - so do I- but if this was your child or partner you would want to try and understand ... Surely you can't be led that easily.. Don't we have some control of our thoughts ? He always said to "let the emotion be seen.. Acknowledge it... And let it pass... Things will be different tomorrow".. So how come he's not following his own advice and allowing himself to be led by his trousers.. He really believes this 'blowing' stuff.. It's making me think bad things about mindfulness which I think he is twisting to suit.. Or not fully understanding .

Whocansay Thu 26-Sep-13 08:03:37

But the bonus is, every time he texts you with that kind of nonsense, it must make you wonder what you ever saw in him!

What an idiot. Ignore him. Hope you're OK, OP.

cjel Thu 26-Sep-13 08:06:10

I'm not sure about mindfulness , but it sounds to me like yu can make a quote to fit what you want. I would read that as you can't help feeling what you feel but you have th'sails' to control what you do with it!! I think he sounds aas if he doesn't understand what hes saying?

I'd ask him to stop contacting you for say, a couple of weeks. If he has things to sort out in his mind he needs to do it in his mind not in yours?xx

redundantandbitter Thu 26-Sep-13 08:11:57

Thanks guys.. He's not texting me.. He's tweeting... I am in day of 4 no contact though he has emailed me twice - short polite stuff . Not replied to him. He won't be discussing this with anyone (I can imagine the reaction from
Family and friends can't you?) so will be sitting around internalising and getting all twisted and muddled. Like cjel said .. I think he is making the mindfulness fit ... It's lazy thinking and a tad dillusional no?

EBearhug Thu 26-Sep-13 08:20:19

I think he's right in that there are lots of things you have no control over - not just the wind, but an employer deciding on a round of redundancies - or a partner unilaterally deciding to walk out. You can always decide to come back to shore, even if you have to tack slowly all the way, rather than get blown out to the mid-Atlantic till your boat is swamped and sinks. Good sailors should be aware of the weather and its ability to change quickly and have planned ahead and know how to handle such events and make decisions to keep themselves and anyone else on board safe.

and I am mostly avoiding going into work till the last minute by wittering on...

redundantandbitter Thu 26-Sep-13 08:29:35

Thank you.. Very well put.. I was trying to put something like that together but it would take a week! I am going to use your words in a tweet... Hope you don't mind... It's just how I feel x ... Now get to work !

MadBusLady Thu 26-Sep-13 08:40:39

Love, you're still engaging with him, and it will only hurt you. No contact means no contact. Stop following him on Twitter and block him from following you. Unfriend him on Facebook. Don't compose cryptic tweets or statuses that are meant for his eyes. That is still communicating, and it does nothing but hurt you and feed his ego. You are not his emotional audience any more, stop thinking of your emotions as available to him.

BitOutOfPractice Thu 26-Sep-13 08:43:25

I'd just like to add that if any partner of mine ever spouted new age guff like that they could look forward to never having sex with me again.

What a load of self-justifying bollocks wrapped up in something that sounds vaguely deep but is in fact a pile of awful wank.

That kind of bollocky twaddle gets right on my last one angry

mistlethrush Thu 26-Sep-13 08:46:00

'Backslide' !!!! If he slid any further down you could scrape him off the sole of your shoes. How on earth can he remotely think that you are a backsliding situation?

Oh - and I agree, he has shown absolutely zero 'mindfulness' too.

ErrolTheDragon Thu 26-Sep-13 08:49:35

>.."You can't alter which way the wind is blowing, but you can learn how to adjust your sails accordingly".

If he's going to use sailing analogies, he might need to be reminded that the most important of the 5 essentials is 'Course made good' .... you don't just go where the wind blows, you steer to get where you need to.

I'm not sure which brand of 'spirituality' he's adopted ... the core values of Buddhism are wisdom and compassion. And its about detachment from the self, not self-indulgent egocentricity.

R&B, you seem to show more true 'spirituality' than he does.

Dump him. He's not spiritual enough for you.

lavenderhoney Thu 26-Sep-13 08:55:21

He's tweeting you! Stop following him on twitter and fb, and block him! Let him use yoga lady as an ear for all this self indulgent twaddle which when you sweep it aside, the blunt truth is he cheated on you. Dress it up in flowing talk and wafty clouds if you like, but its still the same.

Op, you sound very nice, but don't pander to him. If he feels bad- well, another boat one is " that ship has sailed, now leave me alone"

Lazyjaney Thu 26-Sep-13 09:04:46

I actually think he did "the right thing" by breaking up with the OP first, but anyone spouting New Age crap to justify age old lust is a wanker.

Stop following him on Twitter OP, not just tom prevent hurt, but also to avoid crappy phaux philosophy

TSSDNCOP Thu 26-Sep-13 09:13:40

To answer a question you posed a couple of posts ago, Honestly if it were a DC doing this you'd be all "FFS DD/DS, stop fuckarsing about with your dithery mooning and unload the dishwasher".

echt Thu 26-Sep-13 10:03:05

Looked at objectively, the sailing metaphor is no different from similar advice given on MN, that you can't control what is done to you, but you can control how you react to it.

Another way is to see it him saying, hey, what the fuck, it's you, not me.

Whatever, I'd bin him for being a colossal new age twunt.

<disclaimer: new age tosh gets right on my three pennies>

echt Thu 26-Sep-13 10:03:20

Threepennies.

You are really much better off without this knob. I bet he was useless round the house as well and everything had to be on his terms.
Cut contact with him, block him on Twitter and Facebook and start enjoying your life without this boring wanker in it.

ZZZenagain Thu 26-Sep-13 11:14:04

what I just don't like is that he is seemingly impervious to how this would hurt you. He may well be absorbed with his emotions, his destiny and his spiritual journey but it is unforgivable to elaborate on all this to the person who you are so thoughtlessly hurting.

It is up to you of course how you want to handle it but I think you will fare best by dropping him like a hot stone. It will also be the treatment he will find hardest to cope with since he is very much the centre of his own universe and he is not seeing you in all this at all - merely you present a danger than he might backslide into his old ways (of being that lovely man you went out with and who your dc liked). Not responding to him AT ALL will drive him wild and who knows he might come to his senses that way.

I am sorry you are going through this. He sounds so immature and you sound almost like a mother to him in this relationship.

ZZZenagain Thu 26-Sep-13 11:50:31

just out of interest is the yoga teacher on board with all this (knowing each other from another life, being uncontrollably blown into being together with him and feeling he is her destiny?).

Btw I am not adverse to New Age thinking and living. Meditation, yoga, reincarnation etc I am open to all of that but I don't like the way he is handling this. Tbh I also think there is not much you can do about it when someone gets off on a spiritual theme. If they are off doing it, they are off doing it. I don't think you can "make them see sense".

What do you think you want? Do you want to try and accept this and have him as a friend in your life (but not telling you all this hurtful stuff?), or do you want him back as your partner the way it was before? Based on that I would decide what to do. If I wanted his friendship and could handle it (without being told about his relationships/wishful thinking regarding yoga teachers and others he might know from past lifes), I would tell him, ok it is over for me and we can still get on great so long as I don't have to hear x, y, z again. If it is the latter you want, I think you have to be clear and tell him how thoughtless and selfish he has been in talking to you like this, just how much it has hurt to listen to him and that you have to draw the line here. You love him and you do want to continue a relationship but it will be very hard after what you have heard , so if he wants a relationship with you, he needs to sort this out soon, put it behind him and be clear about getting the relationship back on track.

He may well tell you that he is not coming back but if you don't say it, you may regret it.

After that tell him your line is drawn and you are getting on with your life now. You want no part in his spiritual deliberations. Then cut him right off. I think that is what I would do. Short and clear as possible then withdraw from it completely.

redundantandbitter Thu 26-Sep-13 14:26:14

Well... We aren't friends on FB ( neither of us into FB) but I have un-liked him on twitter.... Small steps.. I guess my mantra needs to be 'I am the captain of my own ship'

redundantandbitter Thu 26-Sep-13 15:52:54

God I laughed out loud at the "stop your dithery mooning " comment..priceless..... I am getting to the point of " just make a bloody decision and get on with it " , i I have better things to do with my time that hang around waiting for scraps from His table (lovely table that it is) ... He knows where I am ... To stick with the boat theme .. I am dropping my anchor in the safety of the harbour. He can venture into the stormy seas but I'll be damned if he thinks he's taking me and my crew with him. I will wave while he drowns if he's not careful....enough boat-y you think?

ErrolTheDragon Thu 26-Sep-13 16:15:00

We could probably work out a whole maritime philosophy...

you don't suit your NN you know - you seem to be handling this with remarkable grace and humour.

redundantandbitter Thu 26-Sep-13 16:18:44

That's very kind of you to say so... My NN is old now ... Thinking of changing it to "backslide my arse"

'Backslide my arse' sounds like a terrific mantra.

Lilka Thu 26-Sep-13 20:11:04

'Backslide my arse' is a great mantra and NN

Maybe when he's done with this stupid dithery mooning he'll try to 'backslide'. If he does let him backslide onto his backside because you are so much better off without him

redundantandbitter Thu 26-Sep-13 20:19:23

Lilka... If only I could convince myself ... Knowing him as i do... he will be in touch... He's working flat out now for a few days but I reckon he'll be thinking himself stupid... And come the middle of next week he will be asking to meet... Hmmmm

omuwalamulungi Thu 26-Sep-13 21:12:42

Don't make someone your priority who only sees you as their option. Or however the saying goes.

omuwalamulungi Thu 26-Sep-13 21:14:04

p.s I think you're handling it wonderfully. Healing camp ffs. Some people just need to have a day off from being themselves.

CupOCoffee Thu 26-Sep-13 21:28:52

Fucking hell! What an annoying twat!

I would just ignore him completely . . . forever!

redundantandbitter Thu 26-Sep-13 22:05:15

These responses are really making me laugh.. Thanks guys.. I don't want to forget .. Just want to feel
Less embarrassed, less humiliated .. 'Spiritual awakening' my arse... The thing is he knows I don't really tolerate fools.. I am polite to people but sometimes I just want to say 'sort yourself out'. This applies to him. He got in touch after 25 yrs.. We were at college together... Obviously 25 years history isn't enough... He has to go back to a previous life.. For crying out loud. Grrrrrr

fairisleknitter Thu 26-Sep-13 22:25:39

You have no reason to be embarrassed!

He sounds interesting! (trying not to be mean!) But not grounded or properly adult.

I know a woman who has dumped her husband and father of her children because of her spiritual realisation that they were not karmically linked or somesuch. I love a bit of new age myself but I also believe we could build good loving relationships with any one of quite a range of partners.

Surely dumping unhappiness on others is not living spiritually but living self-indulgently?

You sound sane, good luck!

CruCru Thu 26-Sep-13 22:34:45

Wasn't it Bridget Jones who said "go out with me properly and treat me nicely or leave me alone". Agree go no contact with him, he sounds like men I knew growing up (grew up in Brighton).

ImpOfDarkness Thu 26-Sep-13 22:38:59

He got in touch after 25 yrs.. We were at college together

Soooo, his midlife crisis started four years ago then...

redundantandbitter Thu 26-Sep-13 22:43:40

Well yes... I figured he had already HAD his mid life crisis.., how many are you allocated - surely more than one is just greedy? Yes... We started out together in a stupid crap
Way, still with ex's. so we end our relationships.. Causing pain all round.. My ex married 11 months later (go figure) - hasn't he had enough palaver? I certainly have .. I don't have the emotion energy to go through this ALL OVER AGAIN! I want to shake him.

garlicbaguette Thu 26-Sep-13 22:58:49

Don't shake him. His brain cell might fall out. That would be cruel.

Lizzabadger Thu 26-Sep-13 23:02:18

Oh god, total knobber. Stop reading his tweets.

redundantandbitter Thu 26-Sep-13 23:18:16

Have stopped following him.. Not reading anything... No
Contact whatsoever... I am wondering how his meditation class went tonight.., methinks he hasn't told his fellow group members... Karma ... Next life as a cockroach anyone? How about just being a good person in this life coz its the adult sensible thing to do... Ok if I can't shake him can I at least stand in front of him and shout "you're forty-bloody- three"

JaceyBee Thu 26-Sep-13 23:47:46

I'm a therapist and I would say he was a therapist/counsellor too? We are a bit prone to this self indulgent , hippy bullshit!

WeAreSeven Thu 26-Sep-13 23:49:58

Blowing indeed! There's only one kind of blowing that he really has on his mind.
<<<lowers tone of thread.>>>>

redundantandbitter Thu 26-Sep-13 23:52:59

No, he isn't. Something way more down to earth and v responsible.... But he is training to be a therapist... And yoga lady has been on the same course so
I guess there's been a few 'supportive' conversations around the camp fire. He's doing a fair amount of preaching but not much practising... Is that typical therapist behaviour? I can't help thinking he's going to struggle ....

redundantandbitter Thu 26-Sep-13 23:59:39

WeAreSeven feel free to lower the tone... Even I'm boring myself! I can see his reaction at the suggestion that this is about sex...feigns horror..Tbh we both had crap sex lives with ex's , only really relaxing and enjoying together and it was brilliant, but a personal journey for both of us. That hurts the most.. The thought that he is perfectly happy to embark on another sexual journey without any warning or issues . Sorry, but she is NO WAY going to be like I was with him... He will totally miss what we had. PLEASE. Can I shake him now?

garlicbaguette Fri 27-Sep-13 06:43:12

Yeah, he's not using his brain cell anyway.

wink

garlicbaguette Fri 27-Sep-13 06:45:29

AAAAANNNND ... now ... That's enough about him! 134 posts are plenty, surely?

Tell us about you! What are you up to, how's your weekend looking, what are you doing to reaffirm your general brilliance and joy in life? Hmm?
Detail, please!
smile

redundantandbitter Fri 27-Sep-13 07:22:30

Ok... Kids are with ExP this weekend. Dreading it. Time and space on my own is not a good combination. I know there's been a lot of posts about him here but it's been a major, helpful distraction . The lack of texts and real chat is a big hole in my day - he is a big communicater . Friends all busy with kids, lives etc...trying to only moan to them in rota so I don't completely f**k them off. They have seen it before. Yeah, like I said, dreading it. But thanks for asking

mistlethrush Fri 27-Sep-13 07:26:14

Can you do something for you? Spa day? Go to the gym?

JaceyBee Fri 27-Sep-13 07:30:21

That makes a lot of sense. Therapy training courses are notorious for this sort of thing. It's very intense and emotional and you almost trauma-bond with the others who are going through it. To become a therapist you have to turn yourself inside out, look at all the hidden, buried, shadow parts, acknowledge them and then tell people about them! When you're in a group of like minded people who are all baring the depths of their souls to each other strong intimate relationships happen and sometimes a sexual relationship develops from this. Loads of people get divorced after/during training, most courses outline this in the 'health warning'! Of course not all of these are due to 3rd parties but it is v common.

It may be the case that it's all a bit of an infatuation, he got caught up in the moment and will wake up and get a grip soon and feel like a total twat and want to come back.
I certainly hope this is teaching him a lot about himself that he can reflect on for his personal development assignments!

The not practising what he preaches, therapists should never 'preach' but I know what you mean. He should certainly be a lot of self aware than he currently sounds! I think he may well struggle too tbh!

redundantandbitter Fri 27-Sep-13 07:34:13

Not really . Tbh I am a company kinda girl. Hate being on my own... Makes me look inside my head which isn't healthy for me. Last time he did this (2.5 yrs ago) we were all still living with ex p's. the pain was severe and I wanted to hurt myself and make it all go away so I know I need to always have company. I know he was self harming at this point. I spent many hours on phone to Samaritans. Yes, I know, I'm a stupid idiot. But it hurts

redundantandbitter Fri 27-Sep-13 07:37:18

He starts the course next month but I know she has been advising him. He Admits he keeps everything in Seperate mental boxes and expects this course to get rid if them for him. But surely HE will have to do that work? He freely admits that i know him better than anyone.

CupOCoffee Fri 27-Sep-13 07:59:34

I don't think you can do anything but let him go (and don't let him back!) because he's such a twat that any sort of good long term relationship will, in my opinion, be impossible.

Moron.

redundantandbitter Fri 27-Sep-13 08:14:16

jaceyBee he let slip that he will be 'transformed' after the course. It's like I am his own 'troubled' past and he wants a cleaner brighter future and yoga lady is in that picture. The reality is he still has to work in current job for another 10+ years , still has commitments to ex w, teenage DD's, dog, house and all the day to day dreary stuff. That will remain constant. So I can't see it being all that different. It's frustrating. No I'm nit contacting him. Yes, I am
Letting him get on with it. But it's fucking annoying being at the end of this misguided thought process. Sorry to all of you who have had enough too

JaceyBee Fri 27-Sep-13 08:44:05

Yeah there's nothing you can do or say at this point, just let him get on with it the silly old fool!

However. Not wanting to be alone and have to face up to what's inside your head is not a nice place or a helpful place to be for you. Wanting to self harm is not good and can be helped. Have you ever considered any therapy for your own issues? Can understand if it's the last thing you want to do right now but if you tend to jump from man to man because you can't cope alone it might be something worth looking at a bit?

mistlethrush Fri 27-Sep-13 09:04:30

OK... so, go and look and see if there are any craft courses running on Saturday that might interest you. Are there any guided walks nearby. What about something happening at a National Trust property nearby? Do you have a dog - if you do, I have more suggestions!

redundantandbitter Fri 27-Sep-13 09:06:14

I have had some CBT and therapy after the last time but you just end up going round and round in circles til you get past the pain and stop going. Think I just live with the sadness of not succeeding in my long term relationship, allowing lovely handsome man from past into my life at a very vulnerable time, and now I have to face up to bring told 'I still love you, fancy you, but you don't really suit where i want my life to go'. Talk about kick in the bollicks. I have no faith in my decisions. Hope for the best and look where it's got me . Completely heart broken again. Doh

redundantandbitter Fri 27-Sep-13 09:08:46

Yes, am walking dog now actually. Craving company.

mistlethrush Fri 27-Sep-13 09:27:33

what sort of dog?

Lizzabadger Fri 27-Sep-13 09:31:15

Do you work?

redundantandbitter Fri 27-Sep-13 09:51:04

Work 4 days ... Now off til Monday. Kids away . Urgh. What's the bloody matter with me. I need a slap! The anxiety is rising.. So I end up pacing and can't settle .. Like one if those polar bears kept in captivity.. Going over and over old ground. I am trying to shake myself.

mistlethrush Fri 27-Sep-13 09:59:21

Type of dog? If its a pointy dog I can point you in the direction of something you may never have tried before.

mistlethrush Fri 27-Sep-13 10:01:31

Do you clicker train? If not, look at this, go and get a clicker and see how many things you can teach your dog to do by the time your children get back.

LibraryBook Fri 27-Sep-13 10:04:07

He's had his head turned by a woman who's more bendy than you. Dressing it up as a need for more spirituality is very shallow.

Funny that Mistlethrush suggested guided walks as I was going to suggest that too. Redundant, if you like walking and need company I can thoroughly recommend getting out on a walk with the Ramblers for a few hours. I absolutely love them and have found them a great help when I've needed a mental break from life shit. It really clears my head getting out in the country with sociable people and just being able to switch off for a while smile
www.ramblers.co.uk/walksfinder/search.php

mistlethrush Fri 27-Sep-13 10:25:54

If you can take the dog, even better - dogs are a great way to be conversation openers.

redundantandbitter Fri 27-Sep-13 11:14:43

Thanks for the ideas... Dog is old, deaf and quite frankly a bit stupid so no training but I liked the thought. Rambling never considered but will look online .. Thanks ... As for him being distracted by someone more bendy .. I doubt it.. I'm an ex dancer. Still got it!! Nope it's the inner buttons she had pressed , said the right things and his head is spinning with hypnotherapy and this and that. And he's all excited about his future without even a backwards glance. Harsh .

mistlethrush Fri 27-Sep-13 11:21:00

Pfft then he's not worth worrying yourself about and please don't demean yourself thinking that he is worth even considering getting back together with. He's much too shallow to be worth it. Draw a line under it and work out how to enjoy yourself, create a life for yourself that you can live to the full.

Have you got a local RSPCA or Dogs Trust - what about volunteering to do some socialisation or dog walking?

Are there any adult education centres nearby that are running anything interesting? What about RHS places?

redundantandbitter Fri 27-Sep-13 11:25:37

I am really busy.. Already got 2 jobs and I am a special constable which means I could just go round to his house and beat the hell of of him with my baton... No?

EldritchCleavage Fri 27-Sep-13 11:27:28

My God, he's like a Fast Show sketch:

'This is Brian, he's very spiritual'
[Enter leering bloke in flowing tunic]
'I'm sensing you have a very special aura, Jane'
[Brian strokes Jane's face in creepy manner]
Jane: " Er..."
'I'd really like to get to know you better, Jane, connect on a spiritual level'
[Jane runs away].

No seriously, I'm so sorry you're in this position. I suppose you're getting the endless messages because he knows on one level that he has been fickle and is chasing the new, for a sexual/romantic high. He can't admit to himself that he has been fickle and not a very good bloke so he is deluding himself with this spiritual, not in control stuff.

The interest in therapy is significant. There is a constituency of people really drawn to that as a means to have endless 'deep and meaningful' conversations about themselves, life, themselves, the universe and everything. And themselves, again. And are superior about it because apparently this means they are more thoughtful, and spiritual than the rest of us and living life on a higher plane. My mad SIL is one of them and your guy (can I call him Brian?) sounds like one too.

Just make sure you don't take him back when he tires of the yoga teacher.

mistlethrush Fri 27-Sep-13 11:27:57

grin I'm not quite sure that that is a good use of your special constable equipment - remember the bashing those PCs got for using their riot shields for sleding? However, under the circs I'm sure that no one would blame you wink

Onesleeptillwembley Fri 27-Sep-13 12:11:43

and beat the hell out of him with my baton
Sounds like a public service to me......

No to the baton...yes to CS spray. wink And spray a bit on his bell end while you're at it I bet that would sting a bit-

redundantandbitter Fri 27-Sep-13 13:22:02

Ha! It's a thought!!! But the baton would be so much more satisfying no?

FabricQueen Fri 27-Sep-13 13:29:03

Taser him.

He is a self-obsessed, waffling knob, and you are better off without him. I mix in those kind of circles, and may even know the camp he want to (I went to the one that was just before it grin ). I can tell you from bitter experience at being involved with these kind of blokes that he has done this again, and will do it again in the future. i.e he will trade her in for some other poor lass who he 'feels a really really deep connection with' and who he 'just has to honour' by shagging her senseless and then talking about how they connect on so many levels, and it's like they have known each other always. Blah blah.

Massive sympathies, I feel for you so much. It is shit. But it will get better and you will meet someone nice and normal who isn't a selfish insecure cock. I promise.

redundantandbitter Fri 27-Sep-13 14:02:57

Tbh it's her that has pressed his buttons with the connection thing I think.. But it takes two to tango. She's single, it's ok to flirt , he should have said no thanks . She fits with his idea of himself in the future. cold and calculsting. Sod's law he will marry her , just to piss me off. Hopefully she won't be that imaginative in bed.

garlicbaguette Fri 27-Sep-13 14:03:44

Darling, I didn't mean to suggest you were failing in some way blush I'm sorry! It's just that YOU are the significant person here, and you have far better things to do with your energies than focusing on him - or on his absence, or the idiocy he is now displaying. I must have missed that he'd done this only a couple of years ago (or perhaps I overlooked it as too traumatic, heh.) He really is a prize twat! Let him float away on his vortex of self-avoidance. He'll whirl into a distant flurry of dust, I promise.

Some recommendations:

~ Dance. Put on some amazing music, clear a space round your tall mirror, and feel the dance smile Why not investigate dance classes and/or performance groups near you?

~ Visualise. If you have done 'cord cutting' before, make yourself comfortable and get out your special imaginary scissors. If this is new to you, google it. While you're there, look up detachment visualisations: there's a super one about a little boat, and other variations. Allocate five minutes every day to do this.

~ Meditate. I assume you do this. Go back to first principles. Just think about your breathing. Breathe in peace, breathe out love. Breathe in love, breathe out forgiveness. Breathe in forgiveness, breathe out peace. Do a 'body scan'. Love your body. Love your mind and spirit. You are surrounded by love. You are peaceful.

~ New-age therapy. Counsellors attached to alternative health/beauty centres can be fantastic at supporting you with things like detachment and path-finding. Best of all, they teach you to do it for yourself (is how I know this stuff!)

~ Proper therapy. It's a tiny bit worrying that someone as gorgeous as you feels lost without people around. It suggests you might need to see yourself reflected in others, and/or to reflect them. You could be suffering a bit of co-dependency. There are excellent books and websites about this, and many powerful Mumsnet threads. A qualified psychotherapist makes a great adjunct to them smile

~ Lovely things for you. Not what you think you should want, but little things that make you happy. Could be scented candles, making paella, planting for the Spring, trampolining, anything! One of mine is the automatic car wash hmm Make list if you must. Do them!

~ www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/!

~ See if the dog can hear clicks. Why not? grin

redundantandbitter Fri 27-Sep-13 14:39:16

garlicbaguette thanks.. I DO need practical advice/ shoving in the right direction. I won't always stare at my shoes sobbing.. It's just where I'm at now. Unfortunately I know him, this is not the end , there is more to come. So while I am anxious, I am also trying to galvanise my thoughts so when he does decide he's made me suffer in silence for long enough I can protect myself and know what I want. And it's not more if this being dragged around behind him. I will look up visualising techniques though and meditation though it feels a bit bitter at the mo. and hopefully the sun will keep shining this weekend as I have bulbs to plant. Is it not ok to want to have someone to love and treasure.. So many people I know seem to think its better to be on their own. Hmmm

mistlethrush Fri 27-Sep-13 14:55:01

You have a choice in the matter too - if you want this to be the end, make it so (and have a snigger at that too whilst you're at it). So what if he thinks there's more to come - move on, and leave him behind (at the bottom of a very slippery slope where he deserves to be) and don't throw out any lifelines to him. After all, he chose to leave - all you're doing is acknowledging that he's chosen to go in a completely different direction than the one that you thought you were going in together, its not one that suits you so move on.

garlicbaguette Fri 27-Sep-13 14:59:10

Some sayings are clichés because they are true. One of those would be "If you don't love yourself, you can't love anybody else." This is at the core of my choice to stay solo, and very likely your friends' too.

Have you heard of Robin Norwood's old book, Women Who Love Too Much? It's about co-dependence. Very common. I could go on about this for months (and have, in old threads!) Of course everyone needs to love - and to be loved. You deserve to be loved at least as well as you love others. I used to joke about both of my XHs, the only thing we had in common was that we were both in love with him! Funny how my 'joke' turned out to be the reason I kept having weird relationships, huh wink

redundantandbitter Fri 27-Sep-13 16:43:02

Think I may have to invest in the book. Thanks. I know things will change as the days go on. But blimey they are long... His birthday and out anniversary coming up soon. Milestones but hey. Keep busy. I will work on my insides too. Thanks x

FabricQueen Fri 27-Sep-13 16:58:29

The Robin Norwood book is very good.

Don't let your idea of her being 'calculating' detract what he has done. It is all him, she is irrelevant. Yes it's frustrating if she fed him what he wanted, but that will happen to everyone's partner at some time or another, and what makes an excellent DP is someone who shrugs and says 'No thanks, I'm in love and very happy, thanks' before walking away. Don't ever date someone again who has an empty vortex of swirling not-good-enough inside, because they will flirt and wheedle and wile their way through life, trying desperately to fill up the emptiness inside. And you will become a casualty of that - even though you haven't done anything wrong.

LovesPeace Fri 27-Sep-13 17:05:27

You say he's a nice person. Nice people don't treat the people that love them as he is treating you though - as commodities to make him happy.

Your partner is like an beautiful jellyfish being borne on the ocean currents through seas rich with experiences; transparent and lacking backbone. wink

redundantandbitter Fri 27-Sep-13 17:33:06

I meant HE is calculating. I am sure she is lovely . Well, he tells me she is warm and a 'dynamo' and he is definitely attracted to highly energetic busy types - but they are hectic and draining too (his ex W). I was not really like that, hence not much to offer other than straightforward love and fruendship and good sex. He said he refused her advance....but he obviously mulled it over and revisited the idea. She fits into his bigger picture of future career etc. anyway....

lavenderhoney Fri 27-Sep-13 17:54:12

I read " are you experienced " ( its about a backpacker, v funny) and he also goes to a camp thing in India, as he fancies a girl going. He noted that the guru or whatever he was discovered all the pretty girls " centre" was on their upper inner thighs and the others on their elbowsmile

Hope you are ok, op, and not thinking about him too much. He doesn't deserve a nice person like you.

redundantandbitter Fri 27-Sep-13 18:04:53

Cheers , deep breaths. Going through waves here... I'm
Ok, I'm not ok, Er.. having what can only be described as a mini panic attack in Aldi, and back to numb.. It's boring innit? Thinking of writing a stand up comedy sketch about shit 'spiritual' boyfriends... It's be good therapy!

garlicbaguette Fri 27-Sep-13 18:18:11

Cool smile Your story idea, not the panic attack. Start it here?

Hope you bought yourself some of that fantastic 85% chocolate! Cocoa's a good serotonin precursor, you know that, don't you? I love a good excuse grin

cjel Fri 27-Sep-13 19:44:07

How you doing ? did you get through Aldi Ok? keep breathing! breath out longer than you breath in!!

redundantandbitter Fri 27-Sep-13 20:00:01

Thanks ... Still breathing... Not helped by bloody Barry Manilow whistling and singing 'you know I can't smile without you' on the radio... Arghhh ... Breathe in, eat chocolate, breath out, eat more chocolate ...

cjel Fri 27-Sep-13 20:12:48

choclate, chocolate,chocolate, I always have a good cry on sunday if I catch sound of the seventies or tony blackburn has a relevant year on his programme!!!!

redundantandbitter Fri 27-Sep-13 20:35:51

garlicbaguette thanks for the baggage reclaim link... I read it... Ok I appear to be displaying seriously TYPICAL behaviour.. I have cut all contact though... And I figure we both need the time to rest/think. Have stopped following him on twitter. Not tempted to go round and read his diary (again) even though I have a key to his house... Am
Keeping away .... Breathe ....step away .., he does care , just not enough

CupOCoffee Fri 27-Sep-13 22:30:30

Do you mean you let yourself into his house and read his diary?

redundantandbitter Sat 28-Sep-13 00:32:32

Well... I didn't set out to.. I didn't even know he had one... He knew I was dropping by... I picked up a book and it was a diary...Oh god, I realise how loopy it sounds., yeah not proud.

Look, this man is an utter whanger and it IS over, and that;s a good thing. But what you need now is to find something else to do with your time and energy and emotion, something that is not a relationship with a man. Because it sounds like your last relationship was crap as well and two crap relationships in a row means you need to spend some time concentrating on you, not on making a man love you and stay with you. Whether it's sport, art, history, animal welfare, charity work or political campaigning, you need to find the thing you really care about and spend your time on that.

redundantandbitter Sat 28-Sep-13 01:07:01

Received

Lavenderhoney Sat 28-Sep-13 05:44:22

He kept a diary? How did he find the time? And perhaps he meant you to read it, if he left it out and it was full of spiritual stuff he feels he needs to be read by someone who will admire his looking into his soul. Forget it.

Make yourself forget about him and try to do something that you do, like netball and make some pals at the same time, or tennis, something that keeps you fit and has a social life.

Not navel gazing or walking alone where you have too much time to think and stew about him.

CupOCoffee Sat 28-Sep-13 09:08:01

No it doesn't sound loopy.

nkf Sat 28-Sep-13 09:15:44

Sounds like he joined a cult. My ex did this. I wish h hadn't tried to rescue him. Let him go. It's hard nut hearts mend.

TSSDNCOP Sat 28-Sep-13 09:27:48

Ooh a diary. If you read it you should be utterly ashamed at raiding his private thoughts. Then agin, fuck it, he's so busy mooning about he forgot about it. Is it full of complete and utter wanktastic moony bollocks insight and wisdom.

Either way, your previous posts are interesting with regard to not enjoying spending time alone. Every single woman I know who's clung on to an utter wankspanner has done so because at least in part they didn't like to be alone. Everyone in their orbit is like "why, WHY are you wasting oxygen on that bell-ended twit" whilst the woman in question tries to breathe life into the dead horse of a relationship.

Go to the pictures, go for a walk, go and ring those friends who are outraged and your behalf and get utterly smashed. But for gods sake don't let this yogary naval gazer suck anymore of your life up.

<and breathe, I have to be more subtle in RL grin>

Lazyjaney Sat 28-Sep-13 09:31:13

I'll bet the accidentally found diary was deliberate.

OP you have to go cold turkey on this relationship. Just throw yourself into doing something else, break all communication, throw away all things like keys to houses, stuff he can come and collect, etc etc.

noddyholder Sat 28-Sep-13 09:37:52

Did you get together as an affair?

cjel Sat 28-Sep-13 09:40:43

How you doing this morning?

redundantandbitter Sat 28-Sep-13 10:33:42

Re diary... It's a new thing... Only a few pages ... Tbh most if it was just nice comments about the times wed had from the start if the summer holiday.. Then it stops and says "I just can't do this anymore". ANYWAY .. I have cut all communication (promise) ..I dumped his stuff back ages ago...that seemed to confuse him... Am exercising, getting out, eating is tricky, am seeing people . It's bloody hard being told by everyone that he's a knob. Yes it started as an affair , spent lots of time having to do things by myself (including 2 surgical procedures) and am
Pretty independent. Didn't rely on him to do much.. Just really enjoyed his company and the excellent physical and sexual spark. All this is making me feel like I was a wet lettuce or some sort of ball and chain , but it wasn't as far I remember. I can only guess he was tired of it . Our last weekend together was just lovely. Yeah, no denying , still fed up.

ZZZenagain Sat 28-Sep-13 10:46:24

under the circumstances I find it understandable to read his diary. I might tell him about a wonderful vision I had meditating and it showed me shrugging off a dirty cloak and walking into sparkling sunlight

and how I how feel great about the break up because something wonderful lies ahead for me. Let him choke on i5

cjel Sat 28-Sep-13 11:02:14

understand you feeling he wasn't that bad, I still get defensive when people who didn't know us as a couple slag him off. He did do all the horrid things they've heard but I wouldn't have been with him 35 years if he was complete bastard!! I find I can still love him and cherish what we did have without having to like him and want him back!!

Viviennemary Sat 28-Sep-13 11:08:59

I must say this would massively put me off anybody. I think you're well rid of him. Spiritual awakening. Hmm. Another one to add to the list of excuses of 'why I still love you but am leaving anyway'. hmm

JohFlow Sat 28-Sep-13 11:20:08

How spiritual is it to not nurture those around him and recognise your potential as a partner and as a woman. You are more than adequate. And should you be worried about your spirituality - a partner who is more in tune with you would be an asset. Don't waste another minute thinking where YOU went wrong. If you are drifting apart it due to him. I would be telling him that although you have feelings - you believe that you have a higher purpose than the life you have with him now. Freedom could be just what you need.

redundantandbitter Sat 28-Sep-13 11:40:04

Cheers. Yeah, not really considered my spirituality .. I just try to be a good , kind person. Ok I admit I am leaning in friends at the moment but they are being patient. cjel 35 years is a long time! My word... I feel like I have been out through a mangle and flattened and wrung out.. God knows how you felt after 35 years! You sound so kind and happy. Yes, I will remember the good times and last time I saw him we jokingly talked through the past 4 years.. Some of the ridiculous stuff we've done .. And the nice stuff.. But he just kept bursting into tears. Spineless lump . I spoke to a male friend last night who says OF COURSE he has already slept with yoga teacher (DP days he hasn't).. Friend says no bloke would give up an important loving relationship on the promise of something. He's tasted the goods already . Marvellously mindful. Not.

How's your day been Redundant? You OK?

Lavenderhoney Sat 28-Sep-13 19:52:04

Your mate sounds nice and obviously cares about you enough to say it straightsmile that might sound odd, but you can be too nice! Its ok to get angry.

I hope you are ok and not buying into your ex dp waffle. You are worth more than that and he is relying on your good nature. Be your own best friend and make yourself believe that.

cjel Sat 28-Sep-13 19:59:22

If that gives you hope that after 35 yrs(we were 16!) I am 2 years on and really really content on my own without dramas then my posts have been worthwhilesmile

redundantandbitter Sat 28-Sep-13 22:23:07

lividoflondon thanks for asking... It's hard without the routine of kids... A free day sounds good but it's not if you're free -falling.. I went out... And tonight saw a lovely mate who's bloke dumped her this week (though it turns out he isn't answering her calls as he is snowed under at work!). Am coming to terms with the spiritual nonsense .., its just a rouse .. But the worrying thing is that he believes it. Well, I have to Seperate from his world and live in my world . One or two Of my friends are going through shit so it's mine turn to listen to them. It's only fair. cjel glad you are happy - no dramas? Quiet life is the way forward!!

mistlethrush Sat 28-Sep-13 22:32:12

He believes it because it gives him an excuse... I love redundant but my 'spiritual' partner is knotable'. Utter claptrap. I'm not dissing the importance of things like meditation etc - its just his take on it. Its still all about 'me' for him.

So, what have you got planned for tomorrow and when do the kids get back?

redundantandbitter Sat 28-Sep-13 23:10:09

mistlethrush thanks for asking... Think
I will hook up with a friend for a rally (controversial!) tomorrow... And another friend is having a break
Up so will try and see her in the aft. Collect my DDs at 5pm. House is full of dog hair and fridge empty as I feel like I'm in suspended animation- difficult to do the household chores. DP had just emailed me to say 'hi honey, how are you, wondering what you are doing?'. Er WTF? Busy ignoring you!!! No I won't reply , I am going to start reading a book that someone recommended... 'Women who
Love too much' and pretend I haven't seen the email. Breathe... Hope you have a good day planned for tomorrow? X

Walkacrossthesand Sat 28-Sep-13 23:47:07

He's a long way from grasping that he can't have both of you, isn't he? You've told him where you stand and he's still trying to keep you in the frame. Hard for you, as you so much want this not to be happening, but the man you thought you knew isn't the one who could throw you over for a 'spiritual awakening'. He has to get on with it, and that means not having you in his life. Best place to start is here, with no response to his pestering. He can keep his guilt and pity (cheeky sod) to himself, he lost the right to 'connect' with you when he did what he did. Keep the deep breaths and focus strong, you're doing grand.

redundantandbitter Sun 29-Sep-13 08:39:29

Unfortunately he did have both me and Ex W for a good 18 months so I have form for sticking around in stupid painful situations when I should have bailed and protected my self esteem. Now I know better, though I did tell him
I will always be here (panic made me say it) .. But now I am digging in and not prepared for that level of pain. It's crappy and destructive. I actually felt scarred after the last time. I can't let him poke about in my heart for much longer. Grrrr. Thanks enjoy your Sunday x

CruCru Sun 29-Sep-13 08:53:48

Definitely ignore.

Chibbs Sun 29-Sep-13 10:15:30

he sounds an utter tit op! you o the other hand sound just fab!

noddyholder Sun 29-Sep-13 10:44:38

He does sound awful but I can't help feeling if a man wrote this post he would be getting a lot more grief over the initial affair I think in this scenario you do have to just walk away and look after yourself because neither of you have acted fairly in the past

redundantandbitter Sun 29-Sep-13 10:56:18

Yeah was just saying to my mum that what we did in the first place was wrong and painful for all people involved. But I have learnt from that.. Never EVER again. But DP obviously hasn't. He thinks by ending it with me before starting new relationship that its ok. In reality the mental emotional relationship has already begun with her. Believe me I will never entertain the thought of being a third party again. Lesson learned.

noddyholder Sun 29-Sep-13 10:57:42

It is a hard lesson but from an outside POV he has done the right thing by ending it first. You can do better.

FrancescaBell Sun 29-Sep-13 15:47:26

You'd have to be as green as the green, green grass if you read this story and thought he'd done the right thing by ending it first. Rather, he's done what he did before and sampled an alternative life before ditching the old one. He's just getting quicker at it, if it took him 18 months of seeing the OP before he left his wife. It's completely obvious the new relationship was sexual from the off, while he was still allegedly committed to the OP. I think the fact that it was a 'retreat' is blinding the OP and others to the reality of this. If we replaced 'mystic wanker' for 'salesman' and 'retreat' for 'residential sales conference in a hotel' I doubt there'd be this naivety and delusion.

noddyholder Sun 29-Sep-13 16:03:17

I am not green at all far from it smile but he has moved a few rungs up the evolutionary scale this time by actually not being with both. His infidelity is obvious but he has a history of this and the OP knew when she spent 18 months with another woman's husband what sort of lines they were prepared to cross to get what they wanted. There is no innocent party here

redundantandbitter Sun 29-Sep-13 16:23:13

Yes, you're right. He must have slept with her already. Disappointing as our love life was damn hot and bit pains me to think he was to quick to jump into another persons bed. Ouch. Yes, he's getting quicker at ditching, no kids/mortgage/marriage vows to make him
Question his actions. So it's out with the old and in with the bright shiny new yours teacher. Urgh .

FrancescaBell Sun 29-Sep-13 16:27:01

Yes, you're right. But I do think there has been an overlap here and that it was sexual and not just emotional. It's just the time span was shorter this time. I doubt that's because he's moved up the evolutionary scale though and is more to do with the fact that the OP would have been able to spot the tell-tale signs more than his wife ever could- and so he wouldn't have been able to get away with another double-life for as long as he did before.

It seems implausible to me that a man this selfish and so up his own arse, would ever do anything altruistic.

FrancescaBell Sun 29-Sep-13 16:31:13

Sorry - my post was to Noddy.

One of the biggest myths OP is that a man won't have an affair if his sex life is satisfying. It's like saying that no-one has a pudding when he is full. Some people don't have a saturation point and they just want more and different that's all. Especially drama llama egoists.

noddyholder Sun 29-Sep-13 16:42:12

I think the overlap is part of who he is Its how he operates and puts himself first.

FrancescaBell Sun 29-Sep-13 16:43:52

Completely agree.

noddyholder Sun 29-Sep-13 16:43:57

I was just referring initially to the double standards. If a man came on here and said he met his wife when she was still in another relationship and they dallied about for 18 months and now his wife has met someone else there would be a lot more What do you expect?

FrancescaBell Sun 29-Sep-13 17:05:10

I think you're probably right, although to be fair to the OP in her most recent posts, she isn't being defensive about her past behaviour and comes across as flawed, but likeable. Bar a strange snarky post about Mystic Man's ex-wife having the temerity to associate with another man years after her husband left her (clutches pearls) wink, she's taken a lot of this on the chin and seems to accept that what she did before was wrong.

But like you say, it's not a case of 'Who Knew?' is it?

I do feel frustrated with women who think that replacing another woman solves a cheating man's personality. There are two women in this story who've made that mistake.

It's old advice, but if a man's prepared to treat one woman like shit, it's the triumph of hope over experience that he'll make an exception for you, even if you make it your business to be a sexual goddess.

The women are interchangeable and their personal qualities, irrelevant.

The only constant and unchanged bit of the scenery is the cheating man.

No woman, however beautiful, sexually skilled, rich, clever or spiritual has it in her power to control a bad man's behaviour. Only he can do that.

Makemineamalibuandpineapple Sun 29-Sep-13 17:08:25

This is why you should never get together with someone who leaves their partner for you. The inevitable has happened I'm afraid. Once a cheater always a cheater.

noddyholder Sun 29-Sep-13 17:17:49

I feel sorry for his ex wife of 15 years and his dds and what the OP refers to as their house ,dogs and life all the 'day to day dreary stuff'. That was their life which you 2 destroyed so I am aghast tbh at all the sympathy/empathy here

FrancescaBell Sun 29-Sep-13 17:40:19

Dunno about that 'once a cheater stuff'. I think people learn to adapt their behaviour because of consequences. So if they get kicked out as soon as they cheat, or they get told to fuck off when the affair hasn't worked out and they want to come back, those are consequences. Even in couples who try again, if the betrayed one insists on the other one owning his shit and refuses to take the blame or any responsibility for his behaviour- doesn't cover up for him and makes him do all the work to restore the relationship, those are consequences.

What I do know though is that no-one changes if the only consequence is a new partner who believes all that shit about my wife didn't understand me/you are my soulmate and it was written in the stars and they certainly don't change if a woman is willing to hang around while he chooses one woman over the other.

But yes, I feel sorry for the ex-wife and kids too, on many levels. I do feel (not as much) sorrow for the OP though, because she isn't the first woman to think that competing with another woman for a dud prize is healthy- and unless women wise up and stop trying to outdo eachother in this way, she won't be the last.

redundantandbitter Sun 29-Sep-13 18:59:30

Ouch ladies...fully accept previous shit behaviour.. Yes I feel for ExW in that she has lost security husband etc.. But she freely admitted she never loved him and all his family and friends could say was 'why didn't you leave earlier'. IMHO he should have been man enough to NOT marry her in first place. They wasted a lot of each others time playing games etc. sure there would have been better suited to other people. And referring to EXW having a dalience - good on her - my only issue was it was at camp with the kids ... But sure she was adult about it. She told my DP and he told me. God knows why everyone has to tell each others their tittle tattle. More game playing. And I think i Meant that me, EXW and new lady ALL have the day to do kids, dogs, house dreary stuff. My point is its real life and not spirit camp. Same shit different women. Trust me, never again. Sorry to have let the side down.

Retroformica Sun 29-Sep-13 19:30:06

Reading your posts I have a very strange feeling that he will make a U turn. If everything was as good as you say it was, he will probably come to his senses once he realises all that glitters isn't gold. . Wether you will take him back is another matter.

redundantandbitter Sun 29-Sep-13 19:58:03

Tbh some of the more harsh words posted on here are the ones that I realise I will repeat to myself and to him should we ever speak again. I am ashamed of all the time wasted and hurt inflicted on our ex's. I have never been involved with an affair or even known anyone in the same boat so was completely naiive. He should be ashamed of this spiritual crap when really it's just a case of 'I fancy summat new'. Well off you go, just wish yoga teacher could see into the future instead of the past. She might think twice.

mistlethrush Sun 29-Sep-13 22:49:53

Redundant... I presume the DCs are back with you now - and you are back to work for 4 days this week.

What is your slightly more long-term project - what are you going to 'do' to give yourself purpose, particularly when the DC are not with you?

redundantandbitter Sun 29-Sep-13 23:13:37

mistlethrush.. Thank you ...Dc's are back ... So
Pleased to see them.. Weekends been sooooo long. The nights can't come quick enough. Now DP and yoga lady are all over FB 'liking' each others photos. I will
Stop looking when I stop vomiting. He's a creep. Had the temerity to email me last night and tell me he was not getting much sleep. ... All that shagging I expect. I didn't respond. So .. To answer your question honestly .. I don't know. .. I am a bit lost .. There's always cleaning isn't there. Tricky expecting friends to always be at the end of the phone. It's a case of muddling on through like most folk I expect. This thread has been a lifeline to me this week. Some home truths and friendly advice and really caring messages. Cheers x

mistlethrush Sun 29-Sep-13 23:31:13

That's why I think working out something that you would like to do for 'you' that would fit in around DCs and work would be really good at the moment... I don't know what might be appropriate.. whether music, craft, study.... that needs to come from you. But if you had something to focus on, I think you'd find it easier.

MangoTiramisu Mon 30-Sep-13 01:26:38

It's easy to fall in love with your yoga teacher. It's like falling in love with your therapist. A lot of people take up yoga and go on retreats because they are looking for some kind of physical or mental healing. The feeling they get post yoga is one of calm and peace. The yoga teacher is often seen in a iconic light and as someone who "understands". However, many of the yogis I know are loners and quite obsessed with their practice and the lifestyle it takes to have a higher practise. It sounds like your DP has fallen for the glow of yoga and it's facilitator. I wonder how he'll feel when he finds out that many of them are celibate or much more into their yoga practise than sex and would rather save their energy for a backbends at sunrise session than a roll in the sack.

redundantandbitter Mon 30-Sep-13 07:23:17

You are right... He has described her as a warm
Light , full of energy. She has two Dc's and am
Pretty sure they have had sex ... According to him
She made a move first. But them we know he's a cheating, slippery liar. She's welcome to him. He's like sand. Gorgeous warm white soft fine sand from a beautiful Mexican beach... The problem is you can't hold it, each time you have a handful it just flips through your fingers. Well, it's all gone now. She can have a turn.

mistlethrush Mon 30-Sep-13 08:39:10

So.. what are you going to do to stop being redundant?

And what can you do to stop focusing on him and spend a bit more time taking care of yourself so that you get less bitter?

noddyholder Mon 30-Sep-13 08:43:04

He is not gorgeous warm sand you are idealising him transfer that to yourself would be a great start

EldritchCleavage Mon 30-Sep-13 10:37:05

Why not make today's task to defriend on Facebook and even block his numbers? Sure, it looks unfriendly, but you sound as though you really need the distance and frankly, you really don't need to hear or see any more of his earthy crunchy wankery.

pantsonbackwards Mon 30-Sep-13 10:40:26

No! Not beautiful warm sand! Skanky can't keep it in his pants lying twat!

redundantandbitter Mon 30-Sep-13 11:35:06

Have made an appointment with relate

redundantandbitter Mon 30-Sep-13 12:11:40

We were never friends on FB and have already stopped following him On twitter , though he's still following me . Hoping relate app on Friday will help get some sense

EldritchCleavage Mon 30-Sep-13 12:16:11

Good stuff.

dontyouwantmebaby Mon 30-Sep-13 12:55:06

I think you should block him from following you on twitter as well. The less he knows about you and your thoughts/life, the better it will be (for you). Less engagement will only help you to move forward.

I know you may not feel like this at the moment as its early days but I think give it time and you'll know that you're better off without him (and feel better for it too).

redundantandbitter Mon 30-Sep-13 13:31:40

Hi, I did try to block him from
Following me but I'm no expert and couldn't work
Out how?

dontyouwantmebaby Mon 30-Sep-13 13:57:17

if you click on his profile, next to the follow/unfollow button, if you click on that a drop down menu will appear and the option to block is there (below public reply, direct message, report spam etc).

if using a mac its shift-cmd-b to block someone.

mistlethrush Tue 01-Oct-13 22:22:47

How are you doing Redundant?

redundantandbitter Tue 01-Oct-13 23:01:53

mistlethrush hi! Well which answer would you like .. We have a) not bad , ignoring his 3 emails and trying to repeat 'he's an uncommitted hippy git' (which is as about as abusive as I can muster) .., b) sad at the loss of such a handsome loving man that was supposed to come on holiday with me & kids at half term (yet to tell them) .. Or c) scanning the 'camp ' photos and finding images of the two
Of them together with his kids looking all cosy, and wanting to vomit... Hoping that a chat to relate counsellor on Friday will help... Thanks xx and how are you ????

mistlethrush Tue 01-Oct-13 23:07:57

At them moment I am fine thanks.. getting over a cold.

I suggest that you bin the camp photos.

I suggest that you plan something 'special' for your half term.. Do sometime with the DCs that you wouldn't have done.

Its going to be difficult - there's no doubt. But you're going to be better off without him. smile

redundantandbitter Tue 01-Oct-13 23:17:55

We are going 'glamping' - already paid for and am dreading.. Cold , wet and will have to be the cheery one driving it all along... Is it so wrong to want someone to share the day withm? .Just seems like so many people's opinions are 'you're better off on your own' ... I def feel like I out all my eggs in one basket and its gone up the swannie... Can't believe he has started afresh so fast. Don't think I'll ever get over that shock. So , yes, sorry, am still sad but acclimatising. Thank you, hope you get well soon x

mistlethrush Tue 01-Oct-13 23:25:21

Not surprised you're still struggling (particularly if you've been il).

What region are you going to, and what age are your DC - perhaps there's someone here that can recommend where you go?

redundantandbitter Tue 01-Oct-13 23:30:31

Ah, thanks hun. We are going to Shropshire way , but there are tons of things to do and see... It's the night times when things go dark and a warm hug just sees you right. Urgh.., there I go again. Keep slipping. It'll be ok, least I am
Ok for money (for now) and can afford a break. Cheers hun x

BitOutOfPractice Wed 02-Oct-13 00:20:23

Oh op it's such a tough thing to go through. I still sometimes get a thump of disbelief in the solar plexus about what the ex did to me. And it's over a year now and I'm happy and settled. So for you, when it's all so raw, it's bound to feel devastating

So don't be too hard on yourself. It's still early days and it will get better I promise xx

springybuffy Wed 02-Oct-13 01:12:44

You say you're disappointed.. want to shake him.. that If I've learned anything from this relationship it's 'be patient, be kind and be gentle'.

oh dear oh dear! What's going on! I feel like I'm witnessing the king riding on a horse through the streets WITH NO CLOTHES ON.

ffs. He's not a ditherer, he's a cunt. Poor diddums is at the mercy of his dick the gods/universe and there's just nothing he can do about it <sigh>

Meanwhile, you're feeling 'disappointed'. One feels 'disappointed' when someone nicks the reduced broccoli practically out of your hand in the supermarket. I would suggest that one feels a little more than 'disappointed' when your lover, who tracked you down after 25 years boak , precipated a break from your lt partner, sits with you of an evening - for 4 years - talking deep and meaningfuls and feeling the connection.. dumps you for a bit of skirt.

Come on girl. Less of the kind, the gentles and the patience. He's a dick. You can still be a good person who roars with rage at appropriate moments. You don't have to float off on a cloud with your harp, wishing him well. he's fucked you over. Get angry.

superstarheartbreaker Wed 02-Oct-13 04:53:40

He's a dick. If he precipitated a previous break up then has done this then he us a complete drama addict. Yuck.

TheDietStartsTomorrow Wed 02-Oct-13 06:31:17

I bet his long term partner of 15 years who he left after having an affair with you is having a right laugh. Talk about karma.

redundantandbitter Wed 02-Oct-13 12:26:33

Tbh I think EXW had come to terms with the fact we were still together and 'strong' ( I use the term loosely) and had accepted me meeting their DDs etc.. I think she will be p***ed off and have a go at him for being flaky. Good. Then she may well come looking for me..

cakehappy Wed 02-Oct-13 13:23:33

Hey OP
You're idolising this man, take off your rose-coloured glasses and check out the reality. He fancied someone else, and left you for her whilst trying to cover/excuse terrible behaviour with "out of my control,fate, yadiyaya" bullshit. The sooner you realise it, the better. Disengage. Completely. Warm sand trickling through my fingers, very romantic but he's not what you think he is. You on the other hand are funny and sweet. Make an effort to protect yourself Hun. Totally no photos, following tweets, romantic thoughts, memories of hugs on rainy days...he's REALLY not the man you think/thought he was and that's the painful truth.

redundantandbitter Wed 02-Oct-13 13:29:54

Ok .. Stop idolising.. Got it... He did say he was anxious around me and his kids.. Kept thinking they wouldn't like me.. Tbh we all got on well .. He was just panicking.. Of course yoga lady looks relaxed with his DDs .. You were AT CAMP! Anyone would look at ease in flip flops and a silly hat when there's no work, brownies, tea, dog poo to be sorted. Then he said we were too 'insular' .. Think
He is forgetting here or everyone in mental boxes away from each other.. I am very sociable and kept suggesting having a party... He forgets most of our time together wAs spent in bed .. Having e velksnt sex.. FFS. Pah. Getting new girlfriend then making up stuff that wasn't quite sitting right in our relationship is poor

redundantandbitter Wed 02-Oct-13 13:30:49

excellent sex

redundantandbitter Wed 02-Oct-13 13:37:56

Cakehappy - thank you for your lovely compliment too x

cakehappy Wed 02-Oct-13 13:50:30

It's classic, rewriting history to make excuses for shitty present behaviour. Disengage Hun, he's following the same behaviour pattern as most cheaters. He's not as great as you think he is, and you need to start remembering negative things as well as positive.

springybiffy Wed 02-Oct-13 15:17:53

He was worried his kids 'wouldn't like you'? That's complimentary then hmm

He's full of shit. Complete shit. Insular, huh - who made you insular? Who had you all to himself . I'm wondering if you should have charged him. He's full of complete shit. I agree, take off the rose-tinted glasses. He's a bog standard, dead dull, player.

redundantandbitter Wed 02-Oct-13 15:25:02

springybuffy .. His EXW told the DDs about the exact reason she hates me ... On Father's Day (nice touch) so he wAs always worried from then on.. Whenever we were all in the same room I could feel him flapping...but we were fine . Really

EldritchCleavage Wed 02-Oct-13 17:23:46

Or maybe he was worried because ex-wife had him completely sussed by then, and one of the kids might have let something drop from her that showed him in his true colours?

redundantandbitter Wed 02-Oct-13 17:48:04

No, afraid it's a more straight forward approach ... EX W wanted the kids to hate me as much as she does .. She says so herself.

FrancescaBell Wed 02-Oct-13 19:02:44

To who does she say this?

redundantandbitter Wed 02-Oct-13 19:56:18

Er.. DP ... Ok.. I know what you are thinking .. But I DO know her ... Have spoken to her over the years.. It's very typical . Must admit I have a feeling she will want to talk to me when she finally realises he's left me.. He will be trying to keep it quiet as long as poss. She certainly won't swallow the 'spiritual' rubbish

DontmindifIdo Wed 02-Oct-13 20:41:25

Well, you don't need to focus on if they have "of course" slept together or not, it doesnt follow that they have, in fact, the fact that he's ended it with you after such a short time when it took such a long time of angst with ending his marriage might suggest the lovely yoga woman turned him down while he's in a relationship with someone else, but made it very clear that it was on offer once he had ended that relationship. I know a couple who got together where she refused to sleep with him until he had left his wife (but was very clear she would once he was single), he did, they got together and then married within a very short time frame. I see them now 5 years down the line and I'm 100% convinced if they'd had a full affair at the time (and his DW hadn't found out!), they wouldn't have ended up together.

Also, it's going to have been easier to leave you than it was leaving his W, he's not living with you so there's not practical "leaving issues", you dont have DCs together, ending his relationship with you won't affect how much he sees his DCs, and most importantly, he's done it once before, it's easier to do something when you have done it before and you know you'll be fine.

Anyway OP, can you set up a filter on your e-mails so messages from him go straight into a subfolder, not your inbox - that way you can just ignore them until you're more ready to deal with them. Right now it's too soon to read them.

DontmindifIdo Wed 02-Oct-13 20:42:43

oh and if he's not important to you anymore, then his xW isn't either, you don't need to talk to her again if you don't want too. Why bother having anything to do with any of them (other than your DSDs if they want to keep in contact.)

FrancescaBell Wed 02-Oct-13 20:47:51

I thought as much.

I'd say it was 'very typical' of your ex to try to pit women against eachother, because it wouldn't serve his purpose at all if all the women he shat on started to understand eachother's position and rued the day they ever got involved with him.

His ex-wife is hardly likely to be your biggest fan, but unless she's told you she hates you herself I'd take any conversations reported by him with a huge pinch of salt.

There's a big difference between not liking someone's actions and hating the person herself.

It would be a good thing if you started to question anything that's come out of this man's mouth in all your time together, including of course the period of the affair.

DontmindifIdo Wed 02-Oct-13 20:53:42

sorry in the post above, the lovely yoga woman should have been in " "s as in he says she's lovely, not that I think she is... (realised it reads harsher than I intended otherwise)

redundantandbitter Wed 02-Oct-13 21:10:35

No, you can be harsh, it's ok. He told me she is waiting for him in the wings.. He is ending it with me to over overlap, and then having a couple of weeks break. I think it probably sounded better in his head than in real life words.. All communication has stopped. Will avoid EXW - I havent responded to anything she has sent previously.. He doesn't normally pass on any info about EXW , usually tight lipped. He's not into slagging her off.. Never has really. But I know telling the kids about their dd and me was always a massive threat .. And she carried out the threat . It's her right, the kids will need to know at some point anyway. It's all done now.

redundantandbitter Fri 04-Oct-13 14:40:42

3 weeks today since bombshell dropped... I went to Relate counsellor this morning.. Embarrassingly there for my 3rd lot of sessions.., humiliated moi? She listened. Said it was a classic 'transistion' affair .. Great, so I was nothing more than a useful bridge for him to trample in to get him out of his marriage and into yoga lady's bed. Marvellous. No contact for 12days bar one email. He has sent nothing for a week as has been very busy at work but I know he's off today and yes, I expected some form of contact. Keeping busy, actually changed the Dc's beds and hoovered. I know I should be moving on.. But that involves letting go. Ouch. Some v useful suggestions here.., let go or be dragged down.(I like) , baggage reclaim Website and chump lady. .this site has been a godsend . I have read other people's posts with horror and sadness, sometimes laughter. What people go through! Thanks again and see you on the other side. Oh and am
Changing name to backslide as I love the phrase!

Leavenheath Fri 04-Oct-13 15:12:30

Are you counting the 18 month affair in your '4 years together'?

Even if you are, I can't see how 2.5 years can be described as a transition (assume that's the word you meant to use) affair.

Thing is, she's only got your word for it, based on his word that he was desperate to exit an unhappy marriage.

Why would you expect some form of contact though? He's got no reason to, has he? He ended the relationship and you don't have kids or a house together. The only thing left would be friendship and this relationship was never that on its own.

Better that he doesn't contact you.

Keep seeing the counsellor if you think it's helping you, but the more I hear about Relate counsellors and their daft pronouncements, the less respect I have for that organisation.

redundantandbitter Fri 04-Oct-13 18:07:50

The counselling is helpful as my days are spent working / childcare and putting on a brave front.. So it's a safe place for me to cry. He had tried for years to talk to EXW .. There were letters, rows and tried to get to Relate but, as you say, that's what he's told me. So pinch of salt and all that. We were actually friends too, I expect he thinks I will still be here for him.. Which is why I expected some communication .. I know his behaviour patterns. But actually no contact is a LOT easier for me. I think if I'd have been given a guide to 'typical affair behaviour' 4 yrs ago and I knew what was coming then I seriously would have said sort our own relationships out first. Would have been the best thing all round . Stupid behaviour.

sisterofmercy Fri 04-Oct-13 19:34:58

He's your XP now not your DP. Have a look at the way you write about him and what adjectives you use to describe him 'gorgeous' and 'warm' instead of 'faithless' and 'cold'. Changing the language you use will help you get some distance from him.

Press the spam button without opening on your e-mail provider when he next e-mails. Keep doing so until it learns and sends the e-mail straight to the bin/trash folder. You can do without him tugging on your chain all the time.

He's being really unfair and cruel by not allowing you the time and space to grow a new layer of skin over your wounds.

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