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Is he cheating? Don't know what to do.

(144 Posts)
chubbychipmonk Wed 18-Sep-13 19:43:18

Ok so for the last few weeks things have been really shit with me & DH.

Have a 3 year old & new baby & he is out at work all the time. Hardly see each other, I'm still off work.

For last few weeks his phone has been glued to his side & password changed. Asked him why changed & got the usual 'why you trying to look in my phone?' Etc. . Eh, because its been fucking glued to your side! Asked him outright if there was something going on, answers no.

I later realised I have access to his Facebook as I know the password. Nothing untoward until today at 4pm he had msg'd an ex (who I had no clue he was in contact with), 'Are you back yet?' There was also an arrow indicating that this was a reply message. No other messages.

They're not friends on Facebook either. He wasat a course today & didn't start work till 5pm, I phoned his work at 5.30pm& he was there. I know he was defo at his course too as people I know are on it. After I phoned his work he deleted the message.

Her Facebook page is private but her status says she lives in Singapore now but is from here.

Now my mind is running away with me thinking she's back from Singapore and just hasn't updated Facebook & that they're having an affair or that they've been texting / messaging each other.

Do I let on to DH that I know? He's gonna think I'm a stalking psycho. He's not due in from work till after midnight but I really want to ask him what's going on? Or do I wait & see if there's more messages? Or am I really reading too much into it? I really want to see in his phone now & see what's going on but I don't know the fucking password!

Sorry for rambling!

Trigglesx Wed 18-Sep-13 19:54:15

Even if you can't access his phone, do you have access to his phone bill? Are the calls itemised? Might give you some more info to go on.

mammadiggingdeep Wed 18-Sep-13 19:57:45

Wait. If anything is going on and you ask now, he'll deny, make out like you're mad. Wait it out and see. Maybe it's innocent. However.....the defensive "why are u looking at my phone" is what my xp said when he was guilty.
I really hope it's innocent. X

mammadiggingdeep Wed 18-Sep-13 19:59:12

I'd also add to listen to your instincts. That feeling in your gut. You often know before you know if that makes sense.

chubbychipmonk Wed 18-Sep-13 20:12:50

Can't get access to his phone bill, does anyone even get paper bills anymore?

I know if I ask him he'll turn it round on me saying 'why was I snooping?' Etc. Might say he left himself logged on on his laptop & I read the message that way because if he realises I know his password then he'll change it. I just feel sick to my stomach knowing he's been messaging an ex. And obviously not innocently otherwise it wouldn't be swiftly deleted.

He's just phoned from work coz I text him asking when he was going to be in. We've now fallen out because I said I would speak to him when he gets in & he's ranting down the phone 'just tell me now what you want to speak to me about'. I just put the phone down on him.

Snazzyenjoyingsummer Wed 18-Sep-13 20:17:11

Don't let on you have looked at his Facebook. Make up some other thing you 'wanted to walk to him about'. As mamma said, he will deny it at the moment. Painful I know but you will be more likely to know for sure what's going on if you wait.

Writerwannabe83 Wed 18-Sep-13 20:17:39

I once thought my ex was cheating. I rang up his mobile phone provider and told them he was in hospital after having been attacked (a complete lie) and that the police desperately needed copies of all his phone records shock They bought my story and gave me the passwords to his online phone records!! I couldn't believe how easy it was!

I logged straight on and let's just say, I wasn't surprised by what I saw. An endless log of calls to the woman in question and 100's of text messages to her too!

I'm a big believer in trusting your gut instincts!!

mammadiggingdeep Wed 18-Sep-13 20:22:49

Please don't ask him!! Honestly, he'll tell you something half plausible- you'll have to accept it then he'll change the password. Just wait and watch. If he's cheating he'll just deny and you'll get more confused and paranoid. Stay calm, check Facebook over next few days and just wait. He'll eventually prove himself innocent or you'll find something else to question. Is there anything else that's made you concerned?

KatyTheCleaningLady Wed 18-Sep-13 20:29:05

I agree. You need to wait and watch.

Blondeorbrunette Wed 18-Sep-13 20:35:45

As hard as it is you have to sit on this. Easier said than done i know. If you want the truth and not his version of it, its the only way.

I hope he isnt cheating x

MysteriousHamster Wed 18-Sep-13 20:40:24

Isn't there a way to see deleted items on facebook? I'm sure someone wiser will be along soon.

mammadiggingdeep Wed 18-Sep-13 20:44:08

U

chubbychipmonk Wed 18-Sep-13 20:45:21

What else can I say now? I said I wanted to talk to him when he got in. He's just left a phone message saying 'he'd better not be going home to any crap when ones in after midnight & he's got to get up at 7am.

I think he knows I've seen it & that's why he's so defensive. If I keep my mouth shut so I can monitor for a few days then wtf am I going to say I was staying up till he came home to talk to him about??

totallydone Wed 18-Sep-13 20:46:57

Just go to bed and pretend to be asleep. It may buy you a bit more time and he may forget about it tomorrow

Vivacia Wed 18-Sep-13 20:48:29

I was going to say that you can't say anything, because there's nothing to say. Then I refreshed the thread and read this, "he'd better not be going home to any crap when...". Does he really talk to you like that?

Trigglesx Wed 18-Sep-13 20:53:13

Charming fellow. hmm Just go to sleep and if he asks maybe say you just wanted to spend some down time chatting, that's all, but since he was going to be late, you figured it'd be best for another time.

Then investigate all you can, so you're prepared for the next discussion.

Fairenuff Wed 18-Sep-13 20:53:19

When you asked to look at his phone he said no. So he has something to hide.

Everything else is just a smokescreen.

stripeylawn Wed 18-Sep-13 20:56:13

Chubbychipmonk please just do what posters are advising and that is to keep quiet. When he comes home pretend to be asleep. He will most probably be relieved.

If you ask him tonight he will deny deny deny and your gut will not believe him but he will then get extremely cautious about leaving a trail.

If however you keep quiet pretty soon (if he is cheating) he will get too confident and lazy and you will find some evidence.

Believe me if you think you can't rest until you've confronted him today, you still won't get any peace because he will most probably lie. Focus on your baby and try to just watch and observe for a while.

It is an awful situation to be in (hugs).

chubbychipmonk Wed 18-Sep-13 21:01:32

Vivacia - yes frequently, and that's him being polite!

Vivacia Wed 18-Sep-13 21:04:52

and that's him being polite!

But it's not is it? I'm sorry to be focusing on this when there are bigger things going on, but I'm gobsmacked that somebody could talk to their partner like that.

niceupthedance Wed 18-Sep-13 21:05:38

Just to let you know, if anyone logs into my Facebook from somewhere when I'm already logged in elsewhere, Facebook sends an email to let me know. So that might explain him deleting the message and having a go at you.

chubbychipmonk Wed 18-Sep-13 21:11:38

Nice, really? I just tried logging onto my iPad & phone at the same time & didn't get an email? I've never heard of that before? Can anyone else confirm if that's true?

lemonstartree Wed 18-Sep-13 21:12:52

then I would LTB right now.

PrincessWellington Wed 18-Sep-13 21:16:38

Re email it's only the case if your settings are set up to receive an alert. So, he may or may not have received an email.

chubbychipmonk Wed 18-Sep-13 21:17:31

I just google that & you have to alert a notification through your settings to let you know if your account is accessed by a device you haven't used before. He's not that smart!

Fozziebearmum2be Wed 18-Sep-13 21:20:58

Whilst people don't get paper bills anymore, most mobile providers will have a webchat service. I.e. you don't speak with them so if you know his personal details you may be able to get through security (although try it yourself first as not sure if they send a code to your phone first).

Or, you may be able to log onto his mobile account. I.e. O2 have a myo2 app if you know his password for fb, you might be able to get in.

I doubt you can retrieve deleted fb msgs, but someone else might know.

I'm with the others though, don't tell unless you have more to go on.

BitOutOfPractice Wed 18-Sep-13 21:23:55

He sounds charming!

I expect he was aggressive like that because he's on the defence. He knows you've seen the message and he's shitting himself. Keep our powder dry and watch and learn

Good luck op. it doesn't sound good but then again I'm rather jaded!

chubbychipmonk Wed 18-Sep-13 21:25:11

Lemonstar that's great advice! I'll just get my 3 year old & baby up out their beds & pack our cases shall i??

Vivacia Wed 18-Sep-13 21:30:24

chubby I get your point about Lemon's LTB comment, but honestly if my partner issued a threat like that I'd tell him "No, don't worry. In fact don't worry about coming home at all" and lock him out.

Sandshoes73 Wed 18-Sep-13 21:30:26

Please don't say anything until you have more to go on. He will deny and have you doubting yourself. Take a screenshot of anything suss before he deletes it. Hope all ok

PrincessWellington Wed 18-Sep-13 21:33:57

On the facts given, it sounds does sound suspect.

You could just tell him you have been thinking about the way he is with his phone and the fact that he has changed the password and you are concerned that there is something going on. Don't let on about the Facebook password.

Snazzyenjoyingsummer Wed 18-Sep-13 21:46:09

Don't stay up. Go to bed and blank him. Use a bit of aggression yourself if he asks what it was all about - I would invent some problem with one of the kids, worried about them being ill or something and add 'but since you got so arsy about it I just dealt with it myself!' Distract him away from thinking it's about the messages and he may drop his guard, and/or you may get a chance to look again.

34DD Wed 18-Sep-13 22:02:41

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Dahlen Wed 18-Sep-13 22:41:27

Do you need proof? Think before you answer that, because the instinctive reaction is always to say of course because you don't want to split up the family, disrupt everyone's lives for no good reason, etc.

But think about why you're suspicious and what his reactions tell you.

In a loving relationship in which there is no history of infidelity and partners treat each other with love and respect, sudden possessiveness over a phone does not automatically lead to the suspicion of an affair. It's indicative that something is different and that the owner of that phone wants to keep it private, but the reasons for that could be numerous. When asked about it, a non-guilty person may get a little defensive at first, but will later confess to something, and even if not happy to reveal what is going on will concede that yes something is happening but they're not ready to talk about it (the spouse may not accept that, of course).

In a relationship in which there is love, respect and fidelity, someone who is challenged on their secrecy may still get angry and defensive, but won't come out with "there better not be any crap when I get home" which is not only rude but aggressive and designed to put you in your place.

He's scored two black marks even before we consider the facebook message and its hasty deletion.

The world is full of people who were completely blindsided by their DH/W/Ps affairs. Most of them never suspected a thing until confronted with irrefutable evidence. The fact that that you consider him capable of having an affair speaks volumes. Either you are a crazy woman with some massive insecurity and jealousy issues, or he is behaving in a way that is undermining your trust in him. Given the way he speaks to you and handles your requests for reassurance, my money is on the latter.

TalkativeJim Wed 18-Sep-13 22:49:20

Dahlen speaks much sense OP.

mammadiggingdeep Wed 18-Sep-13 22:52:11

Yes, dahlen is right.

mammadiggingdeep Wed 18-Sep-13 22:52:37

U ok op?

Handbagsonnhold Wed 18-Sep-13 23:04:58

It's an awful feeling to have that of doubt....trust your gut feeling.....seldom wrong in my experience....and as incredibly hard as it is, try not to let him know you are onto him to much.....he'll just try harder to hide things. Easier said than done I know.....He will trip himself up soon enough if he does have something to hide....

chubbychipmonk Wed 18-Sep-13 23:28:37

Not really. Am going to my bed now, he's been showing on my mobile as being online on FB for most of the night, checked again, there's
no new messages but if he was instant messaging or using Facebook chat then the messages would prob be deleted straight away. Not going to confront him tonight but its going to eat me up.

Dahlen Wed 18-Sep-13 23:30:03

Hope you feel better and a bit clearer headed after some sleep. Take care.

chubbychipmonk Wed 18-Sep-13 23:31:37

Thanks Dahlen, very wise words.

mammadiggingdeep Wed 18-Sep-13 23:33:37

Honestly....keep your cards close to your chest. Sleep well and look after yourself x

TessTackle Wed 18-Sep-13 23:35:10

I don't know exactly how, maybe someone more tech savvy can help. But; I accidentally sent all received Facebook messages to my boyfriends phone from his account, not snooping but just trying to type nonsense to his friends to be annoying. If you have his password you can get them sent to your phone somehow x

Blondeorbrunette Thu 19-Sep-13 00:33:26

There is a way that you can retrieve deleted msgs. It was exp on a thread recently.

Maybe post a thread asking for help.

chubbychipmonk Thu 19-Sep-13 03:09:26

Ok so he came in from work & woke me up to ask what was so urgent I had to speak to him about. Cut a long story short, told him again I was suspicious of how defensive he was and was there anything going on, he says no. Is he doing something or messaging someone he shouldn't, he says no. I then say how can he lie to me, he's not. I then couldn't help myself, told him he'd left himself logged in on the laptop & I saw he'd msgd his ex on FB (didn't tell him I know password).

It turns out they've been msg ing each other as she is in Singapore.she was home for a few days 2 weeks ago & they met up for a coffee, she had her 9 month daughter with her & her husband knew they were meeting up. He took the morning off his a course he is doing to meet her, as far as I knew he left that morning for his course.

chubbychipmonk Thu 19-Sep-13 03:15:33

He didn't tell me because I'm a psycho, would've gone mental etc etc etc. it was all my fault that he lied. This was 2 weeks ago he met her for coffee, she's back in Singapore. . WTF are they still messaging?

Apparently he wanted to meet up with her to get 'closure' on the way their relationship ended. . They were together only a year and it ended 12 fucking years ago!! And if he got his closure, why has he been messaging her still 2 weeks later??

As I suspected it was all my fault, our marriage is shit, I make him miserable, I'm everything under the sun. He didn't even apologise about the whole thing.

I left the house straight away & went to my best friends for an hour, he didn't even text/phone to see where I was. He's now sleeping soundly upstairs and I'm fucking fuming. Told him before I left this was the nail in the coffin of our marriage, says he doesn't care.

He told me if he was in a happy marriage he prob wouldn't have met up with her but because things haven't been great recently he thought, why not, he was gonna get moaned at anyway.

So while I've been sitting at home looking after his 2 children stressing out about money etc he's arranging coffee dates with his ex behind my back.

I'm having lunch at his mums tomorrow, do I tell her.

Where the fuck do I go from here. I'm so upset.

chubbychipmonk Thu 19-Sep-13 03:19:04

Is anyone still up??

elizadofuckall Thu 19-Sep-13 03:26:57

I'm still up although I'm rubbish at giving advice.

It sounds like he has no respect for you at all sad and if it were me I'd call him on it and tell him to fuck off then.

chubbychipmonk Thu 19-Sep-13 03:30:36

We've got a 3 year old & a 5 month old baby. I don't want to split my family up. Am scared of being a single parent.

elizadofuckall Thu 19-Sep-13 03:35:16

I get that. I've been where you are. But what are any of you getting out of this. Honestly, this isn't what family life is like. I know that when this happens, instinctively we grasp onto familiarity but life just doesn't need to be like this. For you or your children.

geologygirl Thu 19-Sep-13 03:35:51

What a tosser he is! You now know all you need to know, so first thing in the morning tell him to leave your home. If he's that miserable in the marriage and doesn't care then he can get out cant he?! I love the way he passes the buck and blames you for it happening. ..and I very much doubt they only met up for coffee. Tell his mum tomorrow....let her know what a nasty piece of work he is.

cupcake78 Thu 19-Sep-13 03:37:41

There are red flags in his reply and behaviour.

It's all your fault? You made him do it? He didn't tell you because your psycho? Her husband knew? She was with her dc? He keeps his phone with him all the time! Etc etc

Are you sure if he is doing anything its with her?! I can understand why you don't trust him.

geologygirl Thu 19-Sep-13 03:38:47

Being a single parent is better than you being in this awful relationship. He doesn't respect you or your children to be honest. You deserve better than this. How could you even trust him going forward? That's no way to live.

chubbychipmonk Thu 19-Sep-13 03:40:00

I'm so angry right now I can hardly type. Im the one downstairs sitting on the sofa upset with a million questions going through my head & he's lying upstairs snoring his head off without a care in the fucking world. I actually feel really sick.

geologygirl Thu 19-Sep-13 03:58:06

Yes you should be angry! And the fact that he knows you are upset but is able to sleep soundly also speaks volumes. He does not care at all.

Put your anger to good use and think about what you're going to do here. I would be putting all his stuff in bin bags by now. .and making sure he leaves in the morning. Maybe his mum would like to have him back!

Start putting yourself and your children first now.

chubbychipmonk Thu 19-Sep-13 04:51:19

Just feel lost

hope you are ok chubby?
just wanted to say that YOU would not be the one 'splitting the family up'
he would so that is the first thing you need to get out of your head!
going into this with a feeling of unfounded guilt will just bias your decision from the start.
get pro-active and research your options.
when you realise that you actually can be ok as a single parent(and so can the children) the decision will be so much easier for you to make.
I have been a single parent and although financially it can sometimes be a challenge its actually not that bad and the sense of freedom and happiness it can bring is preferable to the stifling,abusive situation you are in now.
ask yourself how you feel when you look into the future and think about still being in a relationship with a man like this ten years down the line.
this is the hardest part.
but if someone like me was strong enough to do it then you definitely can.

GuybrushThreepwoodMP Thu 19-Sep-13 06:02:58

He has no respect for you. He doesn't care about you and it sounds like he's trying to make you leave him because that way, he can convince you that it's all your fair.
It's not your fault. Even if things aren't great, you are together and you have children which makes life really fucking hard and if he's unhappy he needs to talk to you. Instead he's lied, been aggressive and worst of all, constantly blamed you for everything.
I'm so sorry.

GuybrushThreepwoodMP Thu 19-Sep-13 06:03:56

*fault

MortifiedAdams Thu 19-Sep-13 06:43:02

Sounds to me.like he is totally gaslighting you. Turbing it round to make ift defendable.

LookingThroughTheFog Thu 19-Sep-13 06:44:33

Chipmonk, if you don't want to split the family up, are you prepared to go to counselling? You might be able to make a lot more sense of all of this if there's a third party guiding you through.

From what you said, there is no actual evidence of him having an affair. It sounds odd, certainly, and he needs to explain his actions about closure, but perhaps you need to explore yours too?

chubbychipmonk Thu 19-Sep-13 06:59:05

Funnily enough I mentioned counselling at the start of this week for the constant arguing.

It wasn't met within enthusiastic approach but he agreed to go. That was before this though.

Ledkr Thu 19-Sep-13 07:32:29

Ok chubby either way things can't go on like this can they?
You are both miserable and if he's not up to anything now, the intent was there and still will be if nothing changes.
Of course you don't want to split your family up and be on your own but you also can't do nothing.
My advice to you would be to start to work on your own self.
I don't want to be a single parent (again) but if I needed to be I could and dh knows it too!
So just have a little think and gather some knowledge about how you would cope eh benefits, housing etc. that will give you an air of confidence when dealing with his nonsense.
When he is rude or vile, stop engaging with him and walk away.
If he will go for counselling fine but if not go for it alone.
If I was suspicious of dh for whatever reason I would tell him why even if it sounded ridiculous and I'd snooped,
He would be mostly upset that I was upset and would not be angry at all. He would reassure me as much as he could possibly do because he'd hate to think I was upset.
If he didn't respond like that I'd be more suspicious or think our marriage was on the way out.

weebarra Thu 19-Sep-13 08:14:25

Sorry chipmonk, this sounds really hard and it seems as though he's not engaging with you when you want to discuss things.
It must be tough to be at home with two little ones when he's working such long and antisocial hours.
You clearly want to work at your marriage so I would push the counselling. He has to understand that he can't disrespect you - you're supposed to be his partner.

Spickle Thu 19-Sep-13 08:50:36

If you're on his FB page, click on Activity Log and then Search and it will show you what he's been doing. Don't think you'll be able to see PMs though.

Sorry you're going through this.

thatstripedthing Thu 19-Sep-13 08:59:29

OP, your comment about YOU breaking the family up struck a chord with me. I was exactly like this and the guilt (pre leaving) was excruciating. Until the penny dropped. It wasn't me who broke the family up, it was his actions. My relief was palpable, and made splitting up - and the resolve to stay that way - easy.

Now, mine was about drink not about another woman so I don't want to make light of your devastation. But take this from me. The minute he made the decision to message her and meet up, he consciously gambled with the consequence of breaking up the process. You have not been afforded the conscious gamble.

In my opinion, once a man (or woman) has mentally moved away they are not coming back. It's much better for you now to take control of the situation. And don't leave, tell him he has to go. Make him experience the consequence of his actions. The fact that he tells you he doesn't care makes this so much easier. Make him not care in a bedsit.

As to how you make him leave, only you will know his weakness. But I find humiliation is the most effective way

MadAboutHotChoc Thu 19-Sep-13 09:17:33

Re deleted messages...often people will delete messages by clicking onto x when this only archives the messages. So if you go to his FB, go to Messages and then click onto More at the top of his inbox to retrieve archived messages.

chubbychipmonk Thu 19-Sep-13 09:20:55

He won't leave. He won't leave the boys. I asked him if he would stay at his mums tonight but he point blank refuses.

Said this morning it wasn't cheating either as they only met up for a coffee. Again more of that I've brought this on myself because I've always been suspicious & it's lead to this, he reckons if he'd told me he was gonna meet her I'd have gone mental so he just did it anyway.

mammadiggingdeep Thu 19-Sep-13 09:38:18

It's your fault that he kept secret a coffee date with an ex? No, that was his choice.
Sorry you're in this situation. Get some space to clear your head. Maybe take the kids to your parents/sisters/friends for few nights? Even if its at the weekend.

The blaming you bit is all in the script. But whether he's been unfaithful or not, he talks to you like you're a piece of shit on his shoe and your dc will pick up on that. Get some free advice from a solicitor about what would happen if you split up and check what benefits you'd get? Look into counselling too. Keep your options open. Tell your mum if you trust her judgement.

chubbychipmonk Thu 19-Sep-13 09:52:29

I earn way more than him, have a company pension etc. If I left then financially I think he'd be worse off than me. We have loads of joint debt
though, how does that work? Can't
believe I'm even asking this stuff.

I'm going to his mums for lunch today with the boys, she'll know something's up, I look like shit & will prob burst into tears. Should I tell her? We're pretty close but its his mum at the end of the day.

Slightlylessluscious Thu 19-Sep-13 10:04:36

OP, I was in a similar position 18 months ago, came across some odd e mails, DH hostile and defensive when challenged but chose to believe him. Five.months later discovered that it was a full blown affair by which time he had his exit strategy completely worked out. As other posters have said, it is a really good idea to gather information on how you could make it work on your own (and you could) even if you never have to use that information. You should consider the possibility that you and DH may not be on the same side anymore. I'm so sorry that this is happening to you and really hope that your worst fears aren't realised. Infidelity is like childbirth: You can have no concept of how painful it is until you have experienced it. Big hugs.

PrincessWellington Thu 19-Sep-13 10:09:32

Do not trust his mother. I made that mistake. Cancel if you can't hold it in. You have the shits

practicality Thu 19-Sep-13 10:09:45

Tricky. I probably wouldn't tell his Mum yet. They will ALWAYS take the part of their son and you will be demonised at some point. Get support from your family and friends.

Ask him to hand over his phone because you don't trust him and want to see the messages etc. He will refuse if he is being dodgy and you will have your answer.

The coffee meeting aside, he is treating you in an appalling fashion and it shouldn't be tolerated. He really doesn't care about your feelings and more than that, he is undermining you.

Kick him into touch. Tell him this marriage isn't working for you and you want out. Take back some of the power and show no indication of lack of confidence in being on your own. He will attempt to exploit the slightest whiff of that if he can.

If he won't move out ask him how you are going to divide the house up so you get your own time and privacy because you can't stand to be in his company and will be pursuing your own life from hereafter. Then talk about dividing up chores so he does equal amounts of childcare and half the work it takes to run a house.

Show no mercy.

chubbychipmonk Thu 19-Sep-13 10:10:50

She just messages him back in reply to yesterday's 'you back yet'

She says 'yeah got back yesterday was really good but Callum (her husband) is away again tomorrow. How's things with you?'

He said last night she's back in Singapore but was in Malaysia for the weekend and that was the 'you back yet?'

I told him this morning I didn't want him messaging her anymore so will wait & see if he replies.

bragmatic Thu 19-Sep-13 10:12:33

MadAboutHOtChoc is correct with archived FB messages. Check the archived folder.

practicality Thu 19-Sep-13 10:12:44

I think he is having an affair but it isn't with this woman.

flippingebay Thu 19-Sep-13 10:14:29

Sorry OP but I think he's minimising things and blaming you.. THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT!

Just keep calm and keep an eye on things. If you can trust his Mum then tell her, but remember, she is his mum, so whilst she may be supportive he will always be her priority

Offred Thu 19-Sep-13 10:21:18

I know if I ask him he'll turn it round on me saying 'why was I snooping?'
What else can I say now? I said I wanted to talk to him when he got in. He's just left a phone message saying 'he'd better not be going home to any crap when ones in after midnight & he's got to get up at 7am.
Said this morning it wasn't cheating either as they only met up for a coffee. Again more of that I've brought this on myself because I've always been suspicious & it's lead to this, he reckons if he'd told me he was gonna meet her I'd have gone mental so he just did it anyway.

These things are a bigger problem than any possible cheating IMHO. You are fighting a war not having a relationship.

Offred Thu 19-Sep-13 10:21:59

And he is not treating you with respect.

Offred Thu 19-Sep-13 10:26:05

Honestly LTB, you will be fine I guarantee.

Get some legal and benefits advice from a solicitor and CAB or if your LA has a welfare rights or housing advisory service. Working out the practicalities will make you feel so much better.

LondonNinja Thu 19-Sep-13 10:34:31

Jeez, what a twunt.

So, he doesn't want to be married, and you're 'mad' etc, but he won't go? Who says HE gets to choose? You need to step back and take stock of this: picture this for another five, ten, 15 years... And then, what?

Is that what you want?

Or do you want to gather your courage and escape this awful man? Not an easy decision, but is your life easy now?

Sending you good thoughts.

Handbagsonnhold Thu 19-Sep-13 10:34:56

Remember he will have only told you what he had felt he absolutely had to.....blaming you is dreadful....he clearly needs to grow a pair.....can you make an excuse and not visit his mums today?

LucyInTheSky78 Thu 19-Sep-13 10:36:02

There is definitely a lot to be said for gut feelings. And it does seem like he's trying to hide something going by the way he's acting with his phone. But there is still a good chance it's innocent. I think the wait and watch approach is best for now too.
If he'd told you about being in touch with an ex, would that have bothered you? Or is it the fact he didn't mention it? Sometimes they don't mention things on the assumption it's going to upset you, but it's the secrecy that is upsetting, if that makes sense.

LondonNinja Thu 19-Sep-13 10:36:17

And, whether or not he is having an affair, you are hardly happy. It sounds to me as though an affair would be a sour cherry on a rotting cake...

OliviaPope Thu 19-Sep-13 10:37:51

OP, i'm generally not a person who would encourage someone to consider ending a relationship, but I would in this instance due to his reaction to you finding out. He's admitted that he isn't happy in the marriage and wasn't concerned when you left the house and intimated that the relationship may be over. You deserve more.

Admittedly he may have been defensive and bluffing, but spend some time thinking about the practical aspects of how you would cope (and you're a strong person, you would cope). Think about finances, check benefit entitlements etc.

Your relationship obviously may get back on track, but at the moment you're upset, hurt and feel powerless. You aren't, so take some power back for yourself.

Get support from family and friends. This must be very upsetting for you and i'm always here to listen smile.

OliviaPope Thu 19-Sep-13 10:40:54

Re debt advice, I would call either your local CAB, National Debtline or the Consumer Credit Counselling Service - all will be able to give you support and advice.

And yes, tell his mum - you have nothing to hide.

chubbychipmonk Thu 19-Sep-13 10:53:21

He just messaged her back,

'Not great my wife found out we met up & went mental!! When did you get back?'

So he's fucking carrying on the conversation with her!!!

OliviaPope Thu 19-Sep-13 10:54:34

Did he tell you this openly, or did you check his messages?

LondonNinja Thu 19-Sep-13 10:57:06

Chubby - you must be furious.

Take steps. Come on. At least look into alternatives. It will empower you if nothing else - and he may take you seriously.

chubbychipmonk Thu 19-Sep-13 10:57:46

No, he's on his course! He still doesn't know that I know his Facebook password so I just checked & there they are messaging each other!!

Offred Thu 19-Sep-13 10:58:53

Are you surprised really?

He has no respect for you at all, takes no responsibility for anything; the relationship, his behaviour etc.

Don't get caught in this cycle of proving he's a shit anymore than you have.

Just calmly expect that he leaves so as not to disrupt dc and if he won't go look for somewhere else yourself.

As I said before taking practical steps to see how you would work a split will be vastly more beneficial than snooping on this arsehole's Facebook IMHO.

OliviaPope Thu 19-Sep-13 12:06:31

I think you have your answer - if he was genuinely concerned that you were upset he wouldn't do this.

Please take steps to ensure that you and your DC are secure in the event of a split. Get debt advice, look at your finances and mentally prepare yourself. There's no point upsetting yourself further looking at the messages.

I'm sorry this has happened and we're all here to help.

Fozziebearmum2be Thu 19-Sep-13 12:13:50

So sorry to read your updates. thanks

I think it's worth also looking at the relationship as a whole as opposed to just focusing on whether you can prove that he's been cheating (which you may/may not find out definitively).

Are you happy other than this? You mentioned that he speaks to you in a disrespectful manner, but I wonder if the example you have shared is the tip of the iceberg?

It sounds like he isn't (he's made this fairly clear) and his behaviour last night and since has been really poor and sounds like he's already checked out of the relationship. Whether he has physically cheated with this woman or not, the intention was there and he's been secretive with you which isn't a secure foundation for a relationship.

If you decide to leave him, you are NOT breaking up the family, he is. I say that as a child of divorced parents-whilst in an ideal world loving parents should stay together, children need a secure and positive relationship to look up to, not one where dad talks to mum in a disrespectful way. You'd be doing them a favour by showing its not right.

Jan45 Thu 19-Sep-13 12:18:34

The way he is speaking to you is awful but are you sure you actually want to end your marriage? I think there is more to this than him mtg up with an ex for coffee, it seems more deep rooted, what other issues are there or have you had with him? I don't think he's having an affair with the ex.

You don't appear to communicate in a civil manner with each other, he can't tell you a simple thing like mtg someone for coffee for fear of you going OTT and you can't trust him, why is that?

You both need to calm down and talk reasonably to each other to find out what exactly the other is thinking, it's all to easy to assume things. At the moment, you are reeling, understandably and whether justified or not snooping on his FB page is probably making you feel bad anyway, like you don't already. Instead of snooping more etc, why not be honest, put your cards on the table and surely, as his wife you will be able to assess whether this is just a breakdown of communication or, indeed, if something more sinister is going on.

One thing, the way he talks to you is disgusting and he needs to be told that has to stop, for both your sakes as well as the children you have.

OrmirianResurgam Thu 19-Sep-13 12:22:22

What a shit! He isn't happy and it's all your fault? But he won't leave? hmm

StraightJacket Thu 19-Sep-13 14:39:52

I would be tempted to message this woman the truth, from your husbands fb, making sure she knows it is from you. What an absolute prick!

I would bet my last quid that you would be sooooo much happier without this loser as your husband.

StraightJacket Thu 19-Sep-13 14:52:12

I would say something like

"Hi, entitled wankers wife here. Just to be clear, the reason why I kicked off wasn't just based on the fact he met up with you for coffee, his ex, but because apparently he needed "closure" which you would think after 10 years, a marriage and 2 kids later, he shouldn't need. Also, for weeks now, he has practically had his phone surgically attached to him like a sad pathetic over grown teenager, whilst also changing his passwords. Throw in the fact that recently he thinks he can talk to me and treat me like shit, his wife and mother of his children, can you honestly say that if this was your husband and you found out he was arranging secretive meet ups behind your back, that you wouldn't wonder whether the wankbadger was cheating on you also behind your back?

Oh, and when you read this husband, kindly feck off to your mothers so she can put up with your shitty behaviour from now on because I refuse to anymore."

Jan45 Thu 19-Sep-13 14:57:04

SJ: If I was the OW and read that I would probably spend ten minutes pissing myself laughing and thinking this woman is desperately unhinged. If it was an innocent coffee and the friend has a husband and child do you really think she will appreciate being contacted????

Just sounds like airing your dirty laundry in public to me.

Please don't contact this woman.

I feel for you - your dh is behaving very badly to you.

GladitsnotJustMe Thu 19-Sep-13 15:30:46

He will figure out that you're seeing his messages, and hit the roof. Plus, it's not like you can confront him about it without telling him you've been secretly spying on him.

FWIW my opinion is that he wants an affair with this woman, might not have happened yet but he's definately in the market for it.

Be careful. Listen to what everyone has been saying on this thread - he's an arse whether he's seeing this woman or not. That, in itself, is a sackable offence in my book.

Be strong thanks

Offred Thu 19-Sep-13 15:34:34

I think he will leave tbh if the op doesn't because he's in the market for an exit affair.

I wouldn't think she was unhinged.
I would think on receiving that tx that she had some bloody good points.
its strange how peoples opinions differ isn't it?
mind you,i wouldn't go and meet any of my exes for 'coffee' either.
what would be the point in that.
its asking for trouble.

SanityClause Thu 19-Sep-13 15:54:21

Whether or not he is having an affair doesn't really matter.

You are making each other unhappy. (He has said you are making him unhappy, and he certainly is making you unhappy.)

Why would you want to stay together under those circumstances?

Why don't you put that to him, as a no-fault scenario? Why does he want to be with you, if being with you is so awful? If he says it's for the children, well if you split up, you would both get to be with them often, under happier circumstances.

So, you either both work on making each other happy, or split up.

And see what he says/does.

Jan45 Thu 19-Sep-13 16:16:14

So if you had innocently met your ex with your husband and child and then received that kind of text from his wife you would think she had good points???

Jan45 Thu 19-Sep-13 16:18:02

Surely getting into a productive mode of communication is more conducive than LTB, honestly, nobody knows if he has or is having an affair!!!

why would I meet up with my ex for coffee?
the only time I see him is when he picks our son up at the weekend when my partner is there.
it doesn't sound to me from the op that they are best buds who meet up for a chat and a cuppa on a regular basis and her bloke said himself he met her to get closure so this is obviously not a regular innocent meeting.

and I haven't read all the thread but did her oh have a child with ex who was also there during the coffee meeting?
if so,i missed that bit.

Jan45 Thu 19-Sep-13 16:34:31

No, and I got a bit wrong too, the ex was in town, she doesn't live in this country, they met for coffee and she had her 9 month old baby with her, her husband's not the OPs!

StraightJacket Thu 19-Sep-13 16:49:30

Tbh, she could think I was unhinged all she bloody well wanted after knowing the facts. I couldn't care less. She would be nothing to me.

But would I heck allow my dick of a husband make out that I was being an evil jealous wife whilst he plays the poor victim. Maybe that's just me though.

And even if this woman isn't interested in an affair, it is pretty obvious he is and so maybe she would welcome being told that he is after worming his way into her bed again. I know I would so I could tell him where to jog on!

Fairenuff Thu 19-Sep-13 17:13:37

He is treating you contempt. He doesn't love you, he doesn't respect. He is going to do what he wants, so what are you going to do about it?

You have two choices 1) put up with it, or 2) separate.

If you want to separate see a solicitor and get an order for him to leave the house. Find out where you stand financially.

Offred Thu 19-Sep-13 17:17:33

You would rather tell her yourself that you were "being an evil jealous wife" and he was the victim straightjacket?

Think sending that message to the ex would very much feed into that dynamic rather than dispell it!

Might be cathartic for about 5mins before it became crushingly embarrassing, for me anyway!

Jan45 Thu 19-Sep-13 17:28:12

Offred, that's how I would see it too.

StraightJacket Thu 19-Sep-13 18:05:00

I would be explaining why I had good reason for wondering whether he was up to something more behind my back, rather than it just being me "kicking off" because he met up with her.

You have no idea what lies he is telling her. I know if I was her, I would welcome the truth.

Offred Thu 19-Sep-13 18:10:54

I don't think it matters what she thinks tbh

StraightJacket Thu 19-Sep-13 18:13:21

I do see what you are saying though. It could be taken in different ways. With me and my tongue, I wouldn't be able to resist getting the actual facts out somehow though.

34DD Thu 19-Sep-13 18:16:09

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

that's what I was thinking sj.
I have a reasonto see my ex because we have a son together but he knows my number and picks him up every weekend so I don't need to go out for coffee with him.
oh half has no children with his ex and it doesn't sound from the op that they are good friends who have always met for innocent friendly chats and coffee.
if I had been with my other half for ten years,with children,and he announced that he had been meeting his ex for closure I would be extremely hurt.
and a text like that would make perfect sense to me.
although if she wants him and is hell bent on getting him it really wouldn't matter what anyone said to her as she would probably be all too ready to believe what he had said to her.

Fozziebearmum2be Thu 19-Sep-13 19:24:49

You okay op?

chubbychipmonk Thu 19-Sep-13 20:53:09

Not really. They messaged each other all day,

Along the lines of

'My wife found out we met up & went mental'

'Shit! Are you ok? How did she find out? Des she know we only went for a coffee?' Etc etc

Asked him when he came home if he'd had contact with her, he's said yes & pretty much relayed the conversation. He still doesn't realise I have access to his FB & can read every message.

Sat down tonight & 'talked'. Agreed marriage is fucked, no respect, nothing in common, no trust etc etc. We both come from broken homes however & don't want boys to have a split family. He's agreed to marriage counselling.

What more can I do? He still doesn't overly think he's in the wrong, I told his mum & she's livid although hasn't let onto him she knows yet, wanted me to sort it out first before she speaks to him.

I don't want my babies to have a split family but I really don't know if I want to be in this marriage anymore. I feel lost.

totallydone Thu 19-Sep-13 21:12:45

It is so much better for your babies to have a happy mummy then live like this.

The marriage is fucked but you don't want a split family?

If the marriage is fucked then you already are in a split family.

Wishing you strength op

BellEndTent Thu 19-Sep-13 21:28:28

Ok he's got you exactly where he wants you. So ground down and worn out at home that he knows you won't leave and he can do exactly as be likes.

He doesn't like you right now op and he doesn't want you. He is lying to you, hiding things, being rude and thoughtless, chasing other women because he takes you for granted. Don't let him.

Go to your mum's, a friend's or insist he leaves for a while. Give him the shock of his life by taking charge of the situation and showing that you are not willing to accept this behaviour or trust me it will only get worse. He won't stop, his respect for you will diminish even more and his behaviour will get worse if you let this slide.

If you love him, make him remember that you are a person with feelings in your own right and put some distance between you. Let him miss you, let him see what his actions are risking and that you mean business.

I think he is probably hiding more. If he has told you everything there would be no need to hide his phone anymore would there? sad

LozzaCro Thu 19-Sep-13 21:30:15

My mum and dad didn't want our family to be split either - but even at the age of 13 I knew my mum was better without my dad in the picture. Kids are not stupid, and being in what appears to be a quite toxic relationship is a much worse place to be than having two parents in different houses who love the bones off them.
Technically, you already are a split family. You are no longer working together. I know the idea of it - or in fact even contemplating not being together - is terrifying. But in all honesty I would much rather be out of a relationship, than in one that you are describing sad

samuraispider Thu 19-Sep-13 22:03:25

Agree with BellEndTent.

A rocket up his arse would do him the power of good me thinks. You are in control of the situation not him. He is blaming you for everything. Please don't up with this crock of shite.

chubbychipmonk Thu 19-Sep-13 22:38:20

He's changed the password on his Facebook.

GoingUpInTheWorld Thu 19-Sep-13 22:47:28

That tells me that hes making sure you don't see any messages between him and anyone else.

He's not planning on cutting contact with her.

Offred Thu 19-Sep-13 22:50:28

I don't think it matters what he is saying to her or to anyone else for that matter.

Listen to what he is saying to you.

Basically he is saying he has no respect for you and is setting you up to take the blame for any bad behaviour that results from that lack of respect.

chubbychipmonk Thu 19-Sep-13 23:00:51

I'm just all round gutted really.

Tonight I said again he has to MSG her & end all contact, he's not sure he's 'comfortable' with that idea because there's nothing going on & their just friends.

You can imagine my response! I really want to message her now & tell her to fuck off & stop messaging my husband.

YellowTulips Thu 19-Sep-13 23:02:59

Your family is already split even if you live under the same roof.

His attitude is appalling.

He needs a wake up call.

Personally I would kick him out and tell him to stay with his mum until he is prepared to grow up.

Offred Thu 19-Sep-13 23:03:03

She isn't the problem it is him.

LetsFaceTheMusicAndDance Thu 19-Sep-13 23:17:18

Chubby I'm sorry to be so blunt but from what you've said about him an the way he behaves towards you, I don't think I'd want him as a role model for my sons. sad

There's a good chance they'll end up being like him to some degree. Do you want your boys to grow up thinking that it's ok for their father to speak to you like this?

He sounds horrible so why have him around your kids more than absolutely necessary?

Scarletohello Thu 19-Sep-13 23:31:59

Sorry but after having read all the threads this sounds like a loveless marriage. Why are you with him OP..?

Wellwobbly Fri 20-Sep-13 07:09:08

Do NOT EVER let him know you have information. If you do, it just gets taken underground.

good luck with the MC. I for one have hope. Admit to the MC that neither of you had any role models for treating eachother with respect, and that you slip into power struggles and you would like to learn different.

Then, YOU try and learn that (without focussing on what he is doing). There is only one person you can control, and that is you. This will stand you in HUGE stead in the future whilst he is deciding whether to grow the fuck up or not

When you are in a quiet and trustful time after MC, that is the time to extremely calmly give him a huge, huge huge boundary about the deal breaker that is lying and affairs. Tell him that although small children are sh*t and everyone gets neglected, that it is a phase and you will never ever tolerate disrespect and deceit. Warn him very clearly that if he does this, he is choosing a divorce at that very moment. [I can absolutely time the end of my marriage. Even though I was 5000 miles away).

Maybe he will hear you. Maybe he won't. But it needs saying calmly and clearly. DO NOT BRING UP EX.

Fozziebearmum2be Fri 20-Sep-13 10:27:45

Agree with pp, I wouldn't message ow. His loyalty is to you, so he's the person you have the issue with. Her husband knows all about it, and whilst I wouldn't be comfortable messaging an ex whether my husband knew about it or not, I'd stay away. Your issue is with your partner.

Your comment below that you both think 'your marriage is fucked' and that he's agreed to counselling sounds like he's reluctantly agreed? I maybe wrong?

I agree with you that having being brought up in a split family I would prefer for dcs not to experience it, but much prefer a split family (where parents can be civil for the sake of the kids and prioritise them) far far better than a toxic household. My parents stayed together for a couple of years for 'our sake' it did nothing more than upset us and give us a greater sense of relief when they eventually separated. Sorry to be blunt, but if the marriage is truly over its over...

If on the other hand you could try a few sessions of counselling then it might be worth seeing how it goes and if his heart is truly in it, before making the decision.

If you are going to make a go of it, and draw a line under what has gone before, I would ask him for his mobile and access to Facebook/emails not to keep, just for him to prove to you that he has nothing further to hide. I'm not meaning to keep them, just for you to look through and be satisfied there's nothing more. You could say that you are struggling to trust him and it would make you feel better. I don't think this would help long term (just a one off snoop) but looking (and his response) may be quite telling.

chubbychipmonk Fri 20-Sep-13 13:58:38

Thanks Fozzie, good advice.

Phalenopsis Fri 20-Sep-13 14:09:02

Have read the whole thread Chipmonk and the only thing I can say is, you cannot save a marriage all on your own. Both of you have to want to save it and judging by your husband's actions, he really doesn't seem to give a fuck. As awful as it sounds, him changing the password and his 'she has found out about our convos' messages to her makes me feel he sees you as an encumbrance.

MikeOxard Fri 20-Sep-13 14:32:10

What the hell are you doing getting pissy with the woman? The problem here is your oh, how disrespectful he is to you, how much of a twat he is, and how you two are not getting on. What will messaging her do to fix all that? Nothing, so get real. You two need councelling because your relationship is totally shit, and yet neither of you seems able to even identify the problem.

chubbychipmonk Fri 20-Sep-13 18:56:15

So we've talked again, he's given me the password for his phone & has agreed to counselling.

I think we both want to fix it, owe our children at least that. Not sure it's so easy though when trust has been questioned. hmm

Teeb Fri 20-Sep-13 19:53:28

Why do you owe your children this shit environment to grow up in? Don't pin this on them, it's down to you as adults to call it a day and split your marriage, you will still be their mother and he will still be their father regardless of you being married.

Fozziebearmum2be Fri 20-Sep-13 20:01:02

Best of luck op, you're both trying for the sake of your children which is commendable (for both of you) and hope it all goes well for you. thanks

LondonNinja Sat 21-Sep-13 00:31:09

You do have to give it a try. Then, if things don't work, you will not be plagued by 'what if?' And - it may help your children to know you did all you could, but decided to walk away.

Obviously, though, I hope he sees sense and wakes up so you're treated well and are happy.

Fairenuff Sat 21-Sep-13 08:18:20

You owe your children a lot of things OP but this relationship is not one of them.

This relationship will teach them so many awful ways to behave. And they will think that is normal. And they will go out into the world and behave like that.

If you separate, you teach your children not to let someone else treat them badly. If someone loves them, they show it by what they say and how they behave. If someone does not behave in a loving, respectful, kind way towards them, then they are right to leave and find someone who really deserves them.

By staying together you are giving them a horrible message. Sorry to be so blunt but can you really not see what you are doing to them?

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