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Please help, just found out DH having an affair, don't know what to do

(233 Posts)
knickyknocks Tue 17-Sep-13 09:36:33

My DH didn't log off from the family computer last night properly and have found emails in his sent box to someone (who looks like is also married). They are all of a sexual nature and he definitely looks like he's been having an affair for at least the past 3 months. He has been using 'going to the gym' as an excuse. It's making me feel sick.

He's due to go the gym this afternoon after work. I don't know what to do - we have a 5 month old and a 3 year old. Please help me. Do I ring him? confront him?

Wellwobbly Tue 17-Sep-13 09:38:47

Hold your powder dry. If you react too soon, it just all goes underground.

Get EVERY bit of information you can. Text numbers, email addresses, etc.

Tell us your story.

elizadofuckall Tue 17-Sep-13 09:42:10

Agree with wobbly. Record all of the details and forward emails to yourself to an account that he has no access to.

Im sorry, I know how horrible this bit is sad

Cluffyflump Tue 17-Sep-13 09:42:55

Have you got a sister/close friend you can get round?

Don't contact your H yet as Wellwobbly says, you need to collect and save info (I would include finances in that).

Sorry thanks

knickyknocks Tue 17-Sep-13 09:44:37

I'm in tears holding babyon lap as i write.

I'm so gutted. Daughter born in 2009, we got married shortly after. The relationship took a bit of a pounding with the looking after of a young baby, but got back on track (or so I thought).

TTC baby number 2 for about 18 months. Things happier between us. DS born in March 2013, It appears on the e-mails that he had an email sexual thing going with someone from his work last year. Looks like that fizzled out. Then about 3 months ago, reading the e-mails he's started up something else. This time they've met. Oh shit, I can't believe this. We haven't had sex for about a year. So I'm guessing this is my fault.

I didn't have a good pregnancy and have been so shattered looking after DS with sleep deprivation that sex just wasn't on the agenda. I'm feeling this is my fault. grin(

LumpySpace Tue 17-Sep-13 09:45:04

Get screenshots because he will try and deny it.

StupidMistakes Tue 17-Sep-13 09:45:11

Keep all evidence then confront him. Don't let him wriggle his way out of it

SkodaLabia Tue 17-Sep-13 09:45:56

Don't forward the emails! He will be able to see that they've been forwarded. Screenshot them.

I've often seen on here suggestions to photocopy all bank statements etc immediately before he knows the game is up.

What an awful thing to happen. flowers

BerkshireMum Tue 17-Sep-13 09:46:40

So sorry.

You need to do your best to hold it together and prepare for all eventualities. That means thinking what you'd do if you ask him to leave (permanently or temporarily), gathering financial info etc and also thinking who you'd like to talk to. Who can you trust in RL that will be on your side without another agenda?

Please don't think that by telling you to gather documents and be prepared I mean you should LTB. I just know you'll feel better if you are in a position of relative strength. Decisions come much later.

Take care.

SkodaLabia Tue 17-Sep-13 09:47:02

It's not your fault, of course it isn't. It is a decision he has made, not you.

meditrina Tue 17-Sep-13 09:48:09

You do not have to do anything immediately. It's hell, but this is the time when you need to pause and think. Recognise that you are in shock, and that isn't the best time to make far-reaching decisions.

If you are sure you have enough evidence, then you do have control of when and how you confront him. One more meeting this evening doesn't actually make much difference to the bigger picture. Choosing a time when the DC are not underfoot may be helpful.

youvegotmail Tue 17-Sep-13 09:48:29

I'm so sorry. sad

Hegsy Tue 17-Sep-13 09:48:43

It is NOT your fault. Anyway you could get someone to babysit and follow him to the 'gym' tonight? Agree with others gather as much info as possible before confronting him.

blueberryupsidedown Tue 17-Sep-13 09:50:19

You really need to think clearly and that's going to be very hard. Take a very deep breath and try to have a friend to look after your children and you will have to confront him. Please ask for support from a close friend you might need it. It is not your fault. He wil probaby say that it is. Many couples don't have sex for long periods of time after a baby.

I really feel for you and you are living one of my worst nightmare and I can't start to imagine how you feel. Try to get proof, and think of a plan - how, where, when. I know it's going to be hard but you have to plan it so that the children are not there or being looked after by someone.

Right - THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT!!!!
He has chosen to do this and he is the weak one here.
If sex was an issue for him he should have discussed it with you.
Loads of men have affairs who have a perfectly healthy sex life back at home.
Mine certainly did. After 15 years together we were still at 3-4 times a week but he still had an affair.
This NOT about you. This all about his own self-entitled arse.

This is a process though. You will feel all sorts of things at different times.
You need the anger to come quickly.
You also need some real life support quick sharp.

Do not confornt him yet. Sit and breathe, cup of tea and think things through. No knee jerk reactions. Well thought out processes required here.

I am so sorry you are going through this with 2 young children as well.
And look up hysterical bonding, because you may well go down that route otherwise and you definitely want to AVOID that part!!

Get friends and family around you and keep posting here for support.

meditrina Tue 17-Sep-13 09:52:11

" Oh shit, I can't believe this. We haven't had sex for about a year. So I'm guessing this is my fault."

No it isn't your fault. There may be all sorts of problems in your marriage that you might have contributed to. But the decision to betray is 100% his. And the lack of sex could well have been because of his betrayal - he had to give himself "permission" to cheat. Not giving yourself to your spouse is a way of doing so.

Cluffyflump Tue 17-Sep-13 09:53:48

This is absolutely not your fault.

People don't have a sexlife with bad pregnancies and sleep deprivation.
He chose to deceive you.
He could have come home and taken care of the baby and let you rest instead of going to 'the gym' he had enough energy for that angry

kiriwawa Tue 17-Sep-13 09:53:52

It's not your fault at all. Men don't die without sex.

Do you have a joint account?

VulvaVoom Tue 17-Sep-13 09:56:07

Sorry this is happening to you, I can only second what everyone else has said about gathering evidence so he can't do the whole denying stage and to make sure you have copies of all the financial stuff. Try to stay calm and focused.

I do find it odd on here sometimes - you've been told it's not your fault about the sex thing (I don't think it is either OP BTW) but on another thread a poster who found her DH had been watching porn because she wouldn't have sex was told in various ways 'well, can you blame him?' confused

Cluffyflump Tue 17-Sep-13 09:59:10

How helpful VulvaVoom hmm

knickyknocks Tue 17-Sep-13 10:03:54

Shit just forwarded an e-mail to myself and it's obvious!! Will delete that one - though don't know how to do a screenshot.

Have rung a couple of friends both too far away to help, but both wonderfully supportive.

I think it is just a sex thing as he says (and I find this just laughable) 'I don't want to risk my marriage' WTF??????!!!!!

Am taking down e-mail addresses - god what do I do tonight when he gets home?

Yes, have joint account, but I'm the one in full control of the finances. I'm the breadwinner in this household and organise the paying of the bills etc.

I feel sick sad

PS thank you every one. I can't believe this is happening...

kiriwawa Tue 17-Sep-13 10:09:17

Have you got a printer? If you have, just print the emails out. Otherwise, open paint/word/powerpoint and press fn (bottom left) + prt sc (top right) at the same time.

Then paste into whichever programme you've got open

Gingerandcocoa Tue 17-Sep-13 10:10:06

Are you on a windows or mac computer?

Gingerandcocoa Tue 17-Sep-13 10:11:11

If windows, there is a print screen button on the top right of the keyboard. You open the email you want to take a screen shot of, click the print screen button. Then open Paint, and click ctrl-v to paste the image. Then save the file and email THAT file to yourself, from your own email account.

witch000 Tue 17-Sep-13 10:12:08

How about using your mobile phone to take a photo of the emails.Unless he looks at your phone.

knickyknocks Tue 17-Sep-13 10:13:14

No printer so not able to do that. Shot the screen with the emails says address not valid....need to see if I can get back in. I wonder if he knows and has just changed his password wherever he is which would mean he knows.

He would realise from the sent box and the forwarded email. In a way I hope so, hope he's shutting himself somewhere..

knickyknocks Tue 17-Sep-13 10:14:08

Fecking autocorrect!

knickyknocks Tue 17-Sep-13 10:14:33

I'm still feeling absolutely sick.

VulvaVoom Tue 17-Sep-13 10:16:49

What witch said (pictures on phone or camera) I do this when no access to a photocopier.

knickyknocks Tue 17-Sep-13 10:16:58

Yup, suspect he knows can't get back into email. Do I wait for him to contact me?

wiganwagonwheelworks Tue 17-Sep-13 10:18:08

install a free screenshot program if you feel up to it. Greenshot is easy to use and you can save the screenshots and email them to yourself.

On the keyboard - control print screen (Ctrl then PrtScn) - Then go go into word or another any other program and then shift insert.
Put it onto any document - word is probably best if you have it.
Or you can just take photo's of the screen with your phone?
I'm glad you are getting support in RL.
I have no idea what you should do when he gets home.

In hindsite from when I found out, I would be packing a black bin bag right now and would leave it outside the front door with a note on it saying that you know and that he needs to leave alone so you can think things through for a few days. The front door is locked and you won't be letting him any time soon.
Not sure how practical that is with work etc.. or if you are on Mat Leave. If you are off at the moment then no problem with doing this.

So many of us know how hard this part is. You just want to talk to them to find out why etc.....
The best thing though is to show him 'loss'! What he will lose because of this. Even if you work through it later, he has to understand that this is not acceptable and that there are consequences.

Keep strong for now and kick him out so you can get some head space. Then you can decide what YOU want. Because believe me, if you talk to him it will all be about him. And he won't know why he did it. Space for you and be kind to yourself!
((((((((((HUG)))))))))))

TalkativeJim Tue 17-Sep-13 10:20:20

Move all money from the joint account NOW, or call the bank and have it frozen.

picklebumplum Tue 17-Sep-13 10:21:24

I would call your bank and remove any chances he has if taking any money. I would then text and ask if he needs to tell you anything. .

I would then change the locks because I would bury the bastard if faced with him

maxybrown Tue 17-Sep-13 10:21:29

Unless it's windows 8 then you hold down the windows button (little squares on bottom left?) and prntScr button top right at same time. It automatically saves them in a screenshot album in photos.

lunar1 Tue 17-Sep-13 10:30:40

Do you have anyone that can get pics tonight. I did this for a friend once as everything else just made him deny it.

None of this is your fault. He could have talked to you about sex and been honest about his feelings. He and he alone is responsible for finding an ow.

youvegotmail Tue 17-Sep-13 10:32:46

Did you know the old password and now can't get back in? If not it may just be that it's timed out or something.

He may have realised that he's left it open and changed the password. I hope he's shitting himself.

knickyknocks Tue 17-Sep-13 10:35:43

Got a terrible tummy ache all of a sudden - what did he mean he doesn't want to risk his marriage in an email to her? By the looks of things she's married with kids too :-(

Do I kick him out tonight? My DD is at nursery I don't want to row in front of her.

ShepherdsPurse Tue 17-Sep-13 10:36:37

oh dear poor you sad

He'll be on the phone or texting you in a minute to try to test the water and find out if you know.

knickyknocks Tue 17-Sep-13 10:39:31

Defo can't get back into his email saying address not valid. What a stupid stupid man he is. I read in one of the emails he thought I was looking at his phone. Wouldn't even know how to! But knew something was up with hid excessive gym sessions - plus he seemed to take ages when going to the loo - flipping knew he was up to something. Just still not sure how to handle tonight. Certainly can't sit there having an evening meal with him pretending everything is fine.

TalkativeJim Tue 17-Sep-13 10:40:21

Sorry that was a bit blunt as I had baby on one arm!!

You will get great support here, so keep calm.

Now isn't the time to make any decisions at all - there's no rush, your feelings will change from hour to hour. Don't even think about what you might want to happen - just don't stress about it at all yet. Plenty of time.

What IS time dependent is a. getting evidence and b. securing assets. I know all that sounds terribly dramatic and aggressive but you MUST DO THIS - even if you are already thinking that you can sort it out. The point is that this will have shown you that no, you don't know the person he is, and you DON'T know - as you might have once thought you did - what he might do to shaft you. So you move to PREVENT any possibility of him shafting you first, THEN you think/talk. (Secondly, making swift moves to secure finances especially is a VERY effective way to show him that you will be no pushover, whether it comes to wanting him out or wanting to know all. And that's no bad thing...)

So - great that you are the breadwinner. Secure the joint account so that he can do nothing. Get some of his possessions together so that if he comes home, you can have a bag in the porch and can tell him to fuck off for a week without him having to come in - this means you don't have to face him or talk until YOU want to.

So - evidence. Don't sweat too much if you can't get back in to email. YOU KNOW, and that's the important thing. You need no more proof, and if he tries to go down any minimising/denying route, you just refuse to talk - 'right, I can see you've made the decision, by lying, to end our marriage - bye.'

Secondly, after the bank account, try and get details of his finances, pension etc.

And no - it's not your fault. Partners with small babies tend to have little or no sex. They BOTH miss it. Good partners go through that together, both focused on the babies, then work to get it back. Selfish shitheads, however...

TalkativeJim Tue 17-Sep-13 10:44:42

Yes, bag on doorstep. Firstly, it buys you time, secondly, it puts the fear of God into him. If he seriously thinks you're going to dump him, you WILL get more info out of him. If your first move is to peacefully let him in, it says 'this can be worked through.' Right now, that will be his green light to try and smooth it over and tell you as little as possible.

You want to show fury, cold fury and let him know that the only way he will get back over that doorstep to even TALK to you again is to come completely clean, tell you EVERYTHING. Or - it's the end.

Preciousbane Tue 17-Sep-13 10:46:22

Your tummy ache is pure stress and anxiety, is there anyone that can come round to your house, a trusted friend? You may find it hard to eat but try some soup or something like squares of chocolate to keep you going.

The not wanting to risk marriage means he didn't want to get caught out.

For tonight?? Like I said up-thread - leave a bag for him outside.
He knows now that you know so you will have to sit tight and wait for his communication. He will test the water to start with.
Don't reply. Stay silent and kick him out for now.
Give yourself some time. You are still in shock and won't make rational decisions right now.
Shame he found out you know without you gathering all the evidence. But you know as you read them all.

As others say - bank account freeze etc.....
Practical things for now.

SpottedDickandCustard Tue 17-Sep-13 10:47:52

Excellent post by talkativeJim.

I know you are devastated and emotional right now but you have to be tough and get evidence/mean business with him so a) he can't bullshit you and b) he knows you are serious.

Oh and BTW I did not do the deed with my DP for well over a year when I was PG (hyperemesis and post natal depression). His cock did not shrivel up and die as a result. We talked about things and sorted it out TOGETHER.

So don't let the bugger blame you.

TalkativeJim Tue 17-Sep-13 10:48:19

Can your DD go somewhere else?

If not, can you text him to let him know that a bag will be around the back/in the porch and he can collect and go quietly? - and that if he doesn't, if he hammers on the door or shouts and upsets your DD, he's pretty much driving the final nail in the cofin?

'If you try and gain access or make a disturbance and DD hears this, then be assured that that will be my cue to understand that you no longer care for EITHER of us as you should. In which case, the next time we talk will be in the presence of solicitors.'

TalkativeJim Tue 17-Sep-13 10:49:10

...But don't text until you hear from him. And you will. Right now, he is shitting himself and racking his brains to think what to text to find out what's going on.

MadBusLady Tue 17-Sep-13 10:53:22

Agree with TalkativeJim, stay silent. He knows he's been rumbled. Let him fill the silence and explain himself without any conversational prompts from you. If you start talking to him he has material to work with.

Agree also about moving any joint money immediately.

chaosagain Tue 17-Sep-13 10:57:31

Echoing others too. You need to take control here. The general advice on this sort of discovery is to ask your H to leave for a while this is for two very good reasons:
1. You get space and time to think and then can talk on your terms when it works for you and you're ready.
2. It helps him understand how very serious this is and really understand what it is he's put on the line by shagging someone else.

Sadly, it seems there is a script and that people who have had affairs minimise and only admit to what they think you know/the minimum. He may need it spelt out that honesty will be key if you're able to have any future that means rebuilding trust and that can only work with him being completely honest and accepting all responsibility. In no way is this your fault. He had the options to talk with you about any issues, to find a way through together that worked for you both. He decided not to do that.

As others have said, lots of us suffer from much reduced/absent sex lives with tiny children - it is not an excuse or a reason to have an affair. It is a reason to pull together, support each other and ensure that you both have as much rest etc as possible.

So sorry you're going through this. Look after yourself especially and make sure you take the next steps on your terms. And breathe. Plenty of time to work through what all of this means and what you want after the shock.

perfectstorm Tue 17-Sep-13 10:59:08

We didn't really have sex after DS was born for pretty much a year either. I think that's normal. Sleep deprivation and being touched-out by a baby can do that.

Don't let him twist it so his betrayal is made partly your responsibility. That's bollocks. Small kids are demanding. Decent spouses don't react by removing a lot of their emotional energies for the cheap strokes of an affair.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Tue 17-Sep-13 11:01:04

I would pack him a bag. He may have twigged you are onto him but he might still bluster or act hurt you could even think of such a thing blah blah. Part of his taking a huge risk like cheating is persuading himself if you did find out, you'd do anything to keep the marriage going for the children's sake. Those little ones he had no scruples about avoiding for hours on pretext of work or gym.

May I just gently suggest you don't go looking for reasons, he will have a barrowful of excuses.

You haven't dodged sex to antagonise him. He must have realised after DD that things take a while to get back to normal. If he's been sleeping with somebody for months it hasn't been 12 months of abstinence has it - recently he will have only half heartedly looked to you for sex. If it's someone at work he's had ample opportunity to meet, flirt, overstep boundaries for months.

So sorry this has happened.

Viking1 Tue 17-Sep-13 11:09:54

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

knickyknocks Tue 17-Sep-13 11:21:42

He's just tried ringing.he's left a message saying he was wondering how I am. To contact him back. Then he said 'love you'.

God I'm in bits.

Ezio Tue 17-Sep-13 11:22:56

Yeah i think hes shitting himself now.

youvegotmail Tue 17-Sep-13 11:24:07

So sorry for what he has done to you.

Is there someone that could come and be with you while you get things together?

Please do take the very wise advice re finances and gathering evidence.

knickyknocks Tue 17-Sep-13 11:24:52

He's rung 3 times - should I text him to ask him to come home? DD is at nursery till 5 I'd rather deal with this when she's not here.

He's due to go to the gym this afternoon, though that may be crap, more than likely and off for a shag. The thought of it makes me sick.

I want to ring my mum yo get a hug but know telling her will change her relationship with him forever.

flippingebay Tue 17-Sep-13 11:27:57

I'd send him a text back telling him his 'gym bag' is on the door step and to find somewhere else to stay.
You need time to think and he also needs time to realise what a fuckwit he is...
'If' you decide to work on it this course of action won't do any harm - if it does then he's not worth the effort anyway.
Can you get someone to stay with you tonight and help with the DCs?

SpottedDickandCustard Tue 17-Sep-13 11:28:18

Just ignore his calls.

He will shit himself. You can use the time to pack his bag and leave it at the front door.

Ring your Mum, you need her support. telling her will change her relationship with him forever Yes it probably will. As your relationship with him has been changed forever. AND THAT IS BECAUSE OF HIS ACTIONS.

flippingebay Tue 17-Sep-13 11:30:06

Oh and THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT!
Even if there has been no sex for a year that doesn't mean he's justified in shagging someone else

Platinumstart Tue 17-Sep-13 11:30:12

Take one hour at a time, your head will be all over the place.

In your position I'd be texting back saying "you have five mins to phone me back and tell me everything how honest you are will have a direct impact on whether I continue our marriage"

His reaction would give me a good idea of whether there was anything worth salvaging, although to be honest the fact this isn't even the first time would make me think not

flippingebay Tue 17-Sep-13 11:30:39

Oh and THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT!
Even if there has been no sex for a year that doesn't mean he's justified in shagging someone else

Ezio Tue 17-Sep-13 11:31:11

Also its not your fault at all, hes not entitled to a sex life.

He chose to shit on his vows, instead of trying to work on his sex life with you.

GirlWithTheLionHeart Tue 17-Sep-13 11:35:18

Yes, tell him to come home. Before dd comes back

No - do not get him to come home now.
You aren't emotionally ready for this.
You will forgive him and he will have no consequences and then he'll do it again because he can get away with it.
You need SPACE! Seriously - listen to everyone else who is saying pack him a bag and don't have any contact with him for now.
Wait until it's time for him to go to the gym and then text him to say there is a bag outside and he's to stay elsewhere until you are ready to talk.
You need time - really you do - you will thank us for this - trust us! We've all been there!!!

Rooners Tue 17-Sep-13 11:37:44

Yes I think you should text him asking him to come and get his things, and to find somewhere to stay as he is not welcome to stay at your home any more.

Is the house in your name? You can change the locks I think if so, not sure on that one. But anyway, he needs to get his stuff and fuck off for at least a while, if not for good.

Tell him you won't engage with him when dd is there.

I am thinking he doesn't want to risk the roof over his sorry head, but it's too late for that.

So sorry you are being treated like a fool. Thinking of you xx

youvegotmail Tue 17-Sep-13 11:38:02

I missed the bit where this is the second affair he's had. sad

I'm sorry for the double whammy.

Remember, he WILL minimise as much as he can. He doesn't know how much you know. Keep your cards close to your chest. Tell him you've read his e-mails, 'made a few calls' and that you know everything. Now you want his version, and if he dares to lie to you or minimise his actions you will end the discussion.

knickyknocks Tue 17-Sep-13 11:39:39

He's just tried ringing again. He'll be shitting himself now. He must know I know.

Will pack a bag for him. If I chucked him out have no idea where he'd go.

I never thought this would happen to me. If I think about our kids I just want to sob.

MrsMelons Tue 17-Sep-13 11:39:54

If it was me I would ask him to come home now. I think you have enough evidence and you don't need to have copies of it to show him as you have seen it and are 100% of what has gone on.

It is definitely not your fault, not having sex for a year is irrelevant, it is something you should be working through together not him shagging someone else as a solution.

It is very individual to people how they feel about this sort of betrayal, some can work through it and some can't, I agree with others, your husbands reaction will tell you a lot and maybe give you some idea of how you feel about it all. I do think you should ask for some space, I think you deserve to have some time to think about things, if he does love you and wants things to work out he will respect your wishes.

Thinking of you op!

Rooners Tue 17-Sep-13 11:40:28

Where he goes is not your problem, focus on worrying about you and the children - that is quite enough for you to do.

He hasn't wasted any time worrying about you.

SpottedDickandCustard Tue 17-Sep-13 11:42:11

Will pack a bag for him. If I chucked him out have no idea where he'd go

That is not your problem my lovely.

Please stop worrying about him eg where he will go, his relationship with your Mum. His shagging 2 other women have caused this. Not you.

Viking1 Tue 17-Sep-13 11:44:02

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 17-Sep-13 11:46:23

He sounds like a serial cheater sad

You have already received great advice - remember that HE chose to shag around, not you so he is the one who is destroying his marriage and family.

Where he goes is not your problem - he needs to feel LOSS. Loss of his home comforts, his home and his marriage. That way he gets to appreciate what he is losing and is more likely to fight for you and do all the right things to save his marriage. Loss is the only thing that motivates cheaters.

Rooners Tue 17-Sep-13 11:49:39

I do think that it is questionable whether you want him to fight for his marriage though - it sounds as though you would be happier without such a stressful person hanging around x

Wellwobbly Tue 17-Sep-13 11:49:57

Me too:

Loads of men have affairs who have a perfectly healthy sex life back at home.
Mine certainly did. After 15 years together we were still at 3-4 times a week but he still had an affair.

and this:

This NOT about you. This all about his own self-entitled arse.

We all never thought it would happen to us, OP. The time you are in now, finding out that he doesn't care about you as much as you for him, and he really is this selfish, is torture.

Please be very strong, and very firm on this. Kick him out. He can't miss what he hasn't lost.

And? Phone the other number and tell you you will be forwarding the texts to her husband. (so what you don't have the number).

Blow their little bubble right out of the water.

Platinumstart Tue 17-Sep-13 11:51:44

To clarify I absolutely do NOT think you should ask him to come home. I do think you should speak to him on the phone if you feel strong enough but only insofar as you provide a one off opportunity for him to tell you the truth. It he lies and manipulates then you know exactly where you stand.

I think you should tell your mum too.

I'm sorry this is happening - I'm sorry he did this to you.

He has to know that its marriage breaking stuff - and whatever you decide in the long term - its best that he leaves the house for now.

Vivacia Tue 17-Sep-13 12:00:39

I'm worried that the contradictory advice you are getting is unhelpful. My advice is the same as some have said. Slow down. Take time to think. Don't rush in to anything. Discuss things on here. How you feel now at 12 O'clock may be a world away from how you feel at 4 O'clock.

For what it's worth I wouldn't reply and wouldn't get him home. Use this vital, vital time to get your head together, get support from your mum and plan what to do at the time you expect him home.

TalkativeJim Tue 17-Sep-13 12:02:15

Packing a bag and making him go is the BEST thing you could do if you do find you want to work things out.

May seem counterintuitive, but right now you need to go on the attack - to show him that there will be no easy way out. Go into 'let's sort it out' mode too soon, and he will take advantage of that.

Pack a bag for him and PHONE THE BANK AND FREEZE YOUR ACCOUNT.

Seriously, I know I keep saying that but PLEASE do it.

MrsMelons Tue 17-Sep-13 12:02:38

My only concern about the non-replying is that he may realise what is going on and be full of excuses and lies, I genuinely think that you need to hear his initial reaction.

However, I think you have got lots of advice on here, not necessarily all entirely different so maybe you need to just go with your gut instinct on how to deal with it. Keep talking on MN for support!

He might come home if he is really panicking.

If you want more time to digest, you could text with a 'busy with babies'...

TalkativeJim Tue 17-Sep-13 12:04:16

Crikey - I too missed the fact that he's been playing away with different people since last year at least.

This man is not your friend.

Secure your finances NOW.

knickyknocks Tue 17-Sep-13 12:07:22

I think he's coming home. Thank you so so much for all the support. I feel like i'm in a nightmare. A bag is packed and I've taken pictures of the emails on my phone. I hate him right now. I'm looking at my gorgeous 5 month old and wondering what is going to happen.

Maybe relate sessions in time. I will also talk to Mum. I need her support and know I wouldn't be able to keep it from her. She's nearly 75 though and I'm worried about how this news will affect her.

By my reckoning he'll be home some time around 3.

knickyknocks Tue 17-Sep-13 12:09:39

I'm not sure he did the do with the first woman, think it was sex talk but even so it's infidelity in my book. That was when I was pregnant at the end of last year. sad

I think I need to try and ear, I haven't yet. Suspect it won't get better later on.

Please tell people who will be supportive. I'm sure your mum would hate not to know.

Be strong. He has not been in a marriage with you for a long time.

Ezio Tue 17-Sep-13 12:10:39

Dont lets him give you that ego boost bollocks, having a beautiful wife and children should be the biggest ego boost there is, not some cheap shags when the wife dont know.

knickyknocks Tue 17-Sep-13 12:11:04

I think I need to try and eat. Sorry in a mess and not being careful when writing my posts. So difficult trying to look after the baby too whilst this is going on. Thank God DD isn't here.

knickyknocks Tue 17-Sep-13 12:12:10

Your kind posts of support are making me tearful. I never thought he'd do this to us.

SpottedDickandCustard Tue 17-Sep-13 12:14:33

Don't speak to him at all today, let alone make any plans (eg relate).

Just tell him to leave and that will give you some time to think and grieve.

DO NOT SUGGEST RELATE TO HIM. That way he has got off the hook and taken no responsibility for his actions.

As others have said, he needs to feel loss. And you need to decide whether you want to remain married to a serial cheater.

Mama1980 Tue 17-Sep-13 12:16:31

I have no advice to add just couldn't read and run. I second everything the above posters have said, give yourself time, personally I would leave a bag outside and not see Him today.
And absolutely none of this is your fault x

meditrina Tue 17-Sep-13 12:16:43

You say you're the main breadwinner?

Next time you're at work, change your details, so all future pay goes into your own bank account, then transfer money to meet obligations when it is needed.

When he comes in, let him speak first.

And tell him this is his only chance to make a full confession. It might mean the end. But lying, by omission or commission definitely means the end.

TalkativeJim Tue 17-Sep-13 12:17:40

Glad you are telling your mum. Yes, it will change their relationship, but - this is where you are. If you stay with him, just imagine how it would destroy you inside to see her treating him with the same warmth and trust while visiting, at Christmas - while you are a ball of pain. You cannot heal like that. You could never rebuild from that position.

If you're all fired up and ready to see him, fine - but, I don't think you are right now. I think you need more time to absorb the shock, and get calm, and prepare for seeing him for the first time, because it will be a watershed. You want to be in control, and in control of the situation.

If I were you, I would text to tell him that his bag is awaiting and that you will not be letting him in, and that you will contact him when you are ready to talk. And that you know A LOT, more than he might expect, and one thing which will help you decide which way to go with this is how honest he is with you now. Tell him he has time to think, and he had better think good and make the right decisions. Oh, and that you will be wanting to see all correspondence (even if you don't!) so if he destroys anything, you're finished.

SpottedDickandCustard Tue 17-Sep-13 12:19:20

Excellent advice about getting your salary paid to you.

youvegotmail Tue 17-Sep-13 12:23:55

Please stop thinking about relate, and about how your mum will view him later - you're already thinking about a future with a cheater. He will sense he's got away with it already.

Right now just be angry and show him what he's done.

MissStrawberry Tue 17-Sep-13 12:37:41

I am so sorry this has happened to you.

None of this is your fault. Plenty of people don't have sex for a long time after a baby is born.

Just remember you have given birth twice. That usually hurts a lot but you get through it. You are stronger than you think and you don't need him in your life. A man should enhance you life, not fuck it up and make it harder.

YoniMatopoeia Tue 17-Sep-13 12:43:41

So sorry you are going through this. Do you have anyone close by who can come and be with you?

chaosagain Tue 17-Sep-13 12:44:39

Do tell your mum. Your relationship with your H, if you choose to have one, won't be the same either. It'll need rebuilding. Next to that, that his and your mum's relationship will be different is nothing. This is the reality of what HE's done and denying yourself support only protects him. Your mum will know something's wrong soon and would presumably want to be there for you.

I'd also think carefully about seeing him today at all - take your time to feel ready on your terms, not his. And try to eat something, even if its just a bite here and there. Your little ones need you to be functioning as well as is possible..

ksrwr Tue 17-Sep-13 12:48:27

my one piece of advice is to let him truly believe that its all over, so he has a substantial amount of time to really realise how much he has lost. this way, if you do ever want to work things out, he'll have hopefully learned a huge lesson.

liquidstate Tue 17-Sep-13 12:51:15

Pack an overnight bag NOW so you are prepared if he turns up early.

Give him one chance to explain and before he does this tell him he must go elsewhere until you have sorted your head out. Its not your problem where he goes.

I am a relate success story but even I wouldn't recommended thinking about joint counseling now. You may need single counseling but don't worry about that today. He needs to understand that he has to do all the work. And we are not talking about sorry and a bunch of flowers here. In the meantime separate all your accounts and start making a diary with what is going on and most importantly your feelings.

The people on this forum have excellent advice and can point you in the right direction for reading matter to understand everything etc. good luck!

bleedingheart Tue 17-Sep-13 13:00:11

You don't have to decide anything yet. I think the temptation can be to try and paper-over/fix the problem ASAP and pretend it didn't happen, especially when you are sleep deprived and worried about the children.

Keep you cards close to your chest. I strongly advise that he goes elsewhere. It doesn't mean its forever and it doesn't mean you are sending him into her arms.

He could have looked after the children while you slept, spent time helping you so you weren't so tired. He didn't do that and even if he did, it wouldn't entitle him to cheat. He courted someone else and thought he could keep you on hand as wife and mother. Get angry.

Vivacia Tue 17-Sep-13 13:04:06

I've read many wise words on MN, but one idea that struck me recently is that many people presume that lack of sex led to one partner seeking an affair, however it can be that the lack of sex was caused by one partner seeking an affair.

Either way, I think it's an irrelevant excuse here.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Tue 17-Sep-13 13:09:36

I'm sorry you are going through this sad

I did all the wrong things sad I wish I'd had MN when it happened to me, I'd have handled it MUCH better.

He does have to go, at least for now. You need time & space - even if you don't want it.

The 'need' to 'make it better' is overwhelming I know and you think it's your fault and that you can 'work through it' - all because you don't want to lose him. The very sad fact is that you already have - no matter what he says. Anything you have with him, going forward, is new, is different and has to be wanted by both of you AND comes at a very very large 'cost' - most men who have affairs don't have it in them to rebuild a new relationship with their wives and just want it all swept under the mat (or put to bed as my fucking stupid ex said!!).

I agree with the bag on the doorstep and refusing to talk to him scenario to put the fear of God into him. When you do talk to him, don't tell him how much you know- he will stick to that even if there's more to it. Make him tell you. If his story falls short of what you know, you have caught him in a lie and know that he's doing the classic minimising thing.

TalkativeJim Tue 17-Sep-13 13:30:13

I agree about the irrelevancy of the sex, really.

Your problem isn't sex, it's having a husband who is able and willing to cheat. It really is that simple, and bringing it back to sex is kind of looking at it from the wrong angle. It's all in this sentence, for me:

'I don't want to risk my marriage.'

Eh? But he is sleeping with someone else. So, what's his definition of this 'marriage'? Because it isn't the same as mine. My marriage is of paramount importance to me - and a fundamental part of what it is is sexual and emotional fidelity. I protect and do not 'risk' my marriage - my marriage, ie what it means to ME in MY head - partly by not sleeping with other people. If I did, I would have chosen to discontinue the marriage as I understood it. There would be nothing of any meaning to 'risk'.

Clearly, he has no understanding of this. No sense of 'marriage' being something within HIM, which exists largely because he continues to uphold its tenets, his promises, and cherishes it as something which chiefly exists in his own heart. No, on those counts he is hollow. What he defines as his marriage is the physical nuts and bolts - 'having' the things that marriage brings like home, hearth, children, security - and your devotion, the whole lot of which he is happy to obtain under false pretences.

So what that one sentence says to me is that this man is a shell. He has little understanding of what marriage is, or should be. Which is why he is likely to expect to be able to 'save' this. He will doubtless say he will 'fight' for you, and 'the marriage'. That he 'will change'. But NONE of that is the point. The point is that what he's demonstrated is that there was never any real marriage, because one of the partners clearly had no idea what it meant. And your knowing that, OP, will not change even after a thousand apologies and years of good behaviour, because he's simply not the man or husband that you thought he was.

I would bet a very, very large sum on this guy, at some point, saying that 'he made a mistake' when you ask him WHY. It's the classic line, and as soon as you think about it for longer than a second, it becomes nonsense. No - you simply chose to have sex with someone else because you wanted to do that more than you wanted to stay faithful. Being faithful therefore isn't important to you. How on earth can he say that to you? - he can't. Hence the nonsensical 'I made a mistake'. No, you made a choice, and a choice that says everything about you.

Bogeyface Tue 17-Sep-13 13:49:35

I've read many wise words on MN, but one idea that struck me recently is that many people presume that lack of sex led to one partner seeking an affair, however it can be that the lack of sex was caused by one partner seeking an affair.

Totally agree, this is what happened to me. He didnt want sex with me because he was getting it elsewhere, but said that one of the reasons he had the affair was our crap sex life, until I pointed out that I was the one who wanted to get counselling to try and improve it and he was the one saying no.

Distrustinggirlnow Tue 17-Sep-13 13:50:20

Hello OP.

so sorry to read this. You have received some good advice here and I will echo what others have said - this is in no way, shape or form, your fault. Ok......? It is really important that you understand that.

He has been detaching from you, emotionally checking out for some time.

Sadly there is a script and it goes like this.

He will deny
He will delete (think he may have started doing this)
He will minimise. By minimising I mean he will try and say they only met once, only kissed once, and then my favourite he couldn't get an erection to have sex.

You know this isn't true. You have seen the email evidence.

You need to try and stay calm as I think you are going to confront him when he comes in at 3.

You need to ask him about it, if necessary bluff a bit.
Something like, 'i know that you have had at least three affairs since the DC have been born. I need you to tell me about them now'. (I know you said two, but if you say three, he may say, no it's only two!!)

Then you must be quiet. There will be silence but you must not fill it. If he tries to deviate, bring him back to your point.

Personally I said in answer to his cheery hello, are you alright,
' no I'm not and I want you to tell me all about xxx xxx' his face was a bloody picture!

He may cry and say it means nothing, a mistake, he loves you blah blah blah.

You need him to ring the OW on speaker phone and finish with her.

You then need him to leave for a few days as he needs to see, first hand, what separation from you all is like. You need to use this time to decide what you want out if all of this. Can you try again, because you can if that's what You want. For this to work you need total transparency and honesty from him. This is not the easy option, trust me!

Sorry if I've gone on a bit blush but this afternoon is important. And I wanted to try and help you to get it right.
It's horrible. I know it's horrible.
Always here to hold your hand thanks

Mama1980 Tue 17-Sep-13 14:02:01

Thinking of you op x

picklebumplum Tue 17-Sep-13 14:22:11

In all honesty I don't think relate is an option here, it may help you to seperate from him but it will not fix the relationship.

If you decide to try and work things out with him, no matter how much you tell yourself it can work you will never trust or believe a single word he says or a thing he does again.

Be better than that, take the respect that you deserve, show your babies you are strong enough to defend yourself no matter how hard the situation may be.

Not only has this "man" cheated and betrayed you he has betrayed his children. He made the decision to go off and find something else, he was the one who ruined everything and took it upon himself to decide that the grass might be greener. He will now realise the grass is not as shiny as it may seem.

Give your mum a call, or a friend see if they can have your dd's for a couple of hours and get him out of your home.

Don't even have an argument as with people who have no conscience or morals they always believe they will win, it is a drain you do not need.

Then tomorrow go about your day, sort out some finances and protect your assessts.

This is not your fault.

Demand respect and demand the truth of which you deserve. Be strong, even though your world is falling all around you now it will not always be this way eventually you will build your life and have everything that your supposed to have.

PedantMarina Tue 17-Sep-13 14:26:23

Don't have much to add, except a (probably badly worded) version of what I'd read before:

You thought he was the man you could trust.
He thought you were a pushover.
Turns out, you were both wrong.

JoinYourPlayfellows Tue 17-Sep-13 14:28:16

Hope you are OK, knicky.

The fact that he has done this twice and that it was clearly intended to run alongside your marriage, suggests that he thinks he is entitled to sex on the side.

Xales Tue 17-Sep-13 14:30:51

If you are still reading and he isn't home. Keep quiet.

If he doesn't normally call then he knows you are onto him. Your best way of getting information is to keep quiet and let him hang himself. Most people will get flustered with the silence (especially when guilty) and try and fill it.

Don't let him turn this into your fault because of X, Y or Z. He chose to screw around rather than raise any problems with you. He chose just remember that.

Tell people. Don't try and do this alone. You have done nothing to be ashamed of, it is not your fault. Tell them and use them for support.

Take time and look after yourself and your DC. You come first. You don't have to sympathise with any crying and 'I'm sorry' from him. Put yourself first.

Also I don't know if it has been suggest but please consider going for a full STI check up sad

SkodaLabia Tue 17-Sep-13 14:32:13

How are things, OP? Did you empty/freeze the bank account?

knickyknocks Tue 17-Sep-13 14:32:34

He's Home. He's tried to tell me it was just a kiss and I told him to stop lying cos I knew everything. Have told him to go to his mum's - he can tell her why he's there.

Told him that if we were to stay together that there will now,always be a chance of me saying I can't get past this, that therefore our marriage is irreversibly damaged.

So,many wise words on here. I was only going to buy something off Amazon, then I found all the emails. What a day. Have also told him I want him,to send an email to the ow to say it's over. She is married with kids too. What a dreadful business. Seriously your support today has been fantastic. He's still sat in the conservatory at the moment. Will need to go in there and kick his disgusting sorry ass out of the house. Can't bear to have him near me.

knickyknocks Tue 17-Sep-13 14:34:43

Oh and rung my mum. She was wonderful saying she'd come over. Someone said upthread that I would be thinking come Christmas time, that she would have given him the same love and warmth as usual and I would have been thinking he's a lying rat.

SpottedDickandCustard Tue 17-Sep-13 14:35:38

WELL DONE KNICKY.

"just a kiss" - well that's OK then isn't it? hmm

Stay strong (even though you probably just want to curl up and cry. You can do that once he's gone).

knickyknocks Tue 17-Sep-13 14:36:26

Bank account not frozen as not enough in there to worry about. I have 5k saved up, meant for my mat leave but also for emergencies. He has no access to that.

PyroclasticFlo Tue 17-Sep-13 14:38:15

De lurking to wish you luck and strength OP, well done for standing up to him and retaining your self respect. He doesn't deserve you.

Be kind to yourself, be gentle with yourself and get as much support both in RL and here as you can.

flowers

chaosagain Tue 17-Sep-13 14:41:27

How hard for you.. And how sadly predictable with the minimising, I'm sorry..

Maybe it might help to let him know that for any chance at rebuilding a marriage in the future you now need him to:

- have respect for what you want and need (and that means packing a bag and being gone by 3.15pm, for example, and not being in touch about 'talking' until you're ready. Decide how you want him to be in contact about the children - e.g. email, and ask him to stick to that).
- be completely honest (when you're ready to talk)
- take full responsibility (from here on in).

Perhaps, offer to go for a walk while he gets his stuff together and ask him to be gone by 3.15 when you come home.

Hugs to you. Call on all the RL support you reasonably can.

Cluffyflump Tue 17-Sep-13 14:41:40

Oh knicky...

This is so unfair on you.
He chose to fuck up because he did. Not because of anything you did or didn't do.
You don't have to be perfect to deserve a non cheating spouse.

Mama1980 Tue 17-Sep-13 14:49:15

Well done knicky, just adding my support again. So glad your mum is coming, get all the rl support you can.
X

BerkshireMum Tue 17-Sep-13 14:50:21

Well done OP. So glad your mum knows too.

Can he run up debt on joint account? If so, you might want to take away that option.

You've had great advice here - Talkative Jim is very wise. Please remember that you aren't making any decisions now, just creating circumstances where you take control and all options are open to you.

Take care

flippingebay Tue 17-Sep-13 14:50:27

Well done OP, I did everything wrong when I found out my DH had an affair and I'm still suffering now for it (3 yrs down the line) wise words from mn as usual.

Stay strong and good luck

Writerwannabe83 Tue 17-Sep-13 14:51:19

I have been watching this thread Knicky and I think you have dealt with it superbly and with so much respect for yourself. You should be proud of yourself for addressing it so well. Take comfort in your mother's support and just focus on the needs of you and your children x x

WhereMyMilk Tue 17-Sep-13 14:52:07

Sending you strength and support in dealing with this . You are doing the right thing kicking him out-he needs to learn what he's lost-& don't talk about getting past this yet. You need time and space. He needs to be completely honest-sexually incontinent dickwad.

LittleMissGerardButlerfan Tue 17-Sep-13 14:52:10

I'm glad your mum is coming, you are doing very well.

It's ok to feel angry, sad whatever you want to feel but remember it is absolutely NOT your fault thanks

Hey nicky
Hope you got his sorry arse out of your house.
If you can't then just tell him that your mum knows and she is on her way round now to lend you support and that'll see him running for the door.
Keep strong and don't believe a word he says at the moment.
He will be lying and minimising like his life depends on it!!
Well done on telling your mum - get her round to help out with the kids so you can have some down time.
You need to try to relax (yeah I know, it took me month to do that) as the adrenalin will be going mad at the moment.
Keep us posted and keep strong!

MarilynMoanroe Tue 17-Sep-13 14:57:50

How bloody awful, wishing you lots of luck.

SkodaLabia Tue 17-Sep-13 15:00:24

Well done, it sounds like you were absolutely brilliant and handled the everything with dignity and strength.

Glad your mum is coming over, it will give you a RL person to talk things over with.

SkodaLabia Tue 17-Sep-13 15:01:20

And remember, he has 'driven' this whole thing. You need time to mentally catch up. Don't be pushed into doing or saying anything you're not happy with. flowers

PedantMarina Tue 17-Sep-13 15:04:18

"Just a kiss"?!?!?

OK, now you have a whole new thing to worry about - whether he passed his Incredibly Stupid Genes onto your DCs.

I know you were told he'd try to minimise, but THIS?!?

"Just a kiss"!! Jesus wept.

KoalaFace Tue 17-Sep-13 15:07:06

Oh Knicky you are being brilliantly strong (even if you don't feel like it).

I'm so sorry that you are going through this.

We are here for advice, handholding and for if you want to vent.

Take care of yourself and your DC. Let him feel his loss.

elcranko Tue 17-Sep-13 15:11:43

Knicky, I'm so sorry that you're going through this. As everyone else has said, NONE of this is your fault. I gather he noticed the forwarded email, realised you had seen it and came straight home when you didn't answer the phone? He must have shit himself. Good! So glad that you're making him leave and that your mum is coming to support you. X

PedantMarina Tue 17-Sep-13 15:27:51

And, sorry, didn't mention this before, but my heart goes out to you. Any flippancy in my last posting shouldn't be taken as otherwise.

You're doing well. Keep it up!

knickyknocks Tue 17-Sep-13 15:37:01

Ooh interesting. Just made him email her to say it's over and i've made him leave the llaptop open in case she replies. She has, she says fair enough, have a nice life. Second email 5 mins later, she,has asked 'one thing does she know my name?'

I do - should I rise above it or respond and say it's his wife here, yes I do know your full name (and then give it.....)

MrsMelons Tue 17-Sep-13 15:39:32

Why does she want to know if you know her name? Is it because of her husband.

I would email back: yes I do, cheers. And your husbands name.

And leave it at that.

Has he left yet? He really should sad

knickyknocks Tue 17-Sep-13 15:41:31

Yes must be. I sort of want to reply - just to make her feel stupid too. I wouldn't do anything else about her. She's got her own sorry state of a marriage to deal with.

SkodaLabia Tue 17-Sep-13 15:42:16

Dignity is all, let her stew. If you email back you could be drawn into an exchange that you might regret later.

Leverette Tue 17-Sep-13 15:42:34

I would let her know that yes, I did know who she is. The least she can endure in this situation is a little anxiety that there may be repercussions from her lowlife behaviour.

You rock btw, I am so impressed at how you've handled this today thanks

knickyknocks Tue 17-Sep-13 15:42:48

He's gone to his mum's. I'm left with this email...oh and a 5 month old and my DD to collec. In a bit.

Mama1980 Tue 17-Sep-13 15:44:08

Tbh I would just ignore, though I understand the temptation.
Has he gone yet?

MadBusLady Tue 17-Sep-13 15:44:12

Knicky you've been brilliant so far. I don't think you should be getting involved in their emails.

He twigged that you were reading his email. You have no idea how they straightened out their story together (by text or on phone) before he got home. You could be being fed total bollocks here, he could have warned her to expect a "grand goodbye" email.

I don't think he should be there with you at all.

The only way you are going to see some serious remorse from him is if he REALLY thinks he might lose you. Kick him out, not your problem where he goes, say you are going to consider your future.

MrsMelons Tue 17-Sep-13 15:44:30

I am so impressed with how you have dealt with this, you sound amazing!

I can't see any reason not to let her know you know who she is. I think she should be made to feel some responsibility for this but you are right not to take it any further with her IMO.

You're doing great op, is your mum coming today?

He is a complete twat.

MadBusLady Tue 17-Sep-13 15:44:44

x-post, glad he's gone.

alwaysontop Tue 17-Sep-13 15:45:18

So sorry op - and it's not your fault x

Vivacia Tue 17-Sep-13 15:46:21

I'd go with that reply, "yes. I do".

Mama1980 Tue 17-Sep-13 15:47:06

X posted sorry.
Is your mum on her way?
You have been amazing very strong and dignified. X

nemno Tue 17-Sep-13 15:47:18

I am so impressed how well you've handled this knickyknocks. I know you are embarking on a really hard bit of your life but hang on to the strength and dignity you have shown now. There will be times when you won't but never doubt that you can cope. All the best.

OrmirianResurgam Tue 17-Sep-13 15:48:40

Sorry to read this x. But you are amazingly strong. I wish I could have been as strong. Good luck

saferniche Tue 17-Sep-13 15:48:45

magnificent x

AmayaBuzzbee Tue 17-Sep-13 15:49:40

I'd email her to say: "Yes, I do know your name. I'd suggest you talk to your husband before I will contact him with all the evidence of your sordid affair".

And then leave it at that (and not tell the husband, she will probably feel forced to do it herself).

Crazycake Tue 17-Sep-13 15:50:37

You have handled this so well! You know you can do this x

Xales Tue 17-Sep-13 15:51:13

From discovery at 9 to coming home around 2:30 they have got their story straight.

You don't know if he is texting/calling her while out so any email you send could just make you look stupid.

She is beneath you. If your H is not contacting her and you don't reply she will have to stew and worry about what you do/don't know and what you will/won't do with any information.

youvegotmail Tue 17-Sep-13 15:51:14

I would totally reply (otherwise he might at some stage) - you don't need to get drawn into anything, just say,

'X's wife here - yes, rest assured I do know your full name and circumstances.'

and then leave it at that. Don't get sucked in or say anything else or reply (or even use your name). I don't care if it's spiteful - she deserves to feel a bit worried.

Bogeyface Tue 17-Sep-13 15:55:22

I have to admit that I would reply with "Yes, I do know your name, and your husbands. You have 24 hours to tell him the truth before I do"

At the absolute least she will be cacking herself, but hopefully she will feel compelled to tell him and he will have the truth about his marriage.

MadBusLady Tue 17-Sep-13 15:55:53

Please do not reply at all.

I think you are being played.

They have had hours to get their story straight.

The trouble with making him end it is that it does kind of send a message that you are eventually going to take him back. Is that what you want?

Stop being involved. Pull back from all this, get your mum round, and look after yourself while it sinks in. You've had a huge shock.

ShepherdsPurse Tue 17-Sep-13 15:57:50

I would be wary about the email. He has more than likely text her to say that you are watching.

SpottedDickandCustard Tue 17-Sep-13 16:06:36

Has he left his email open?

If yes, do use the opportunity to have a snoop and take photos of any useful evidence. Check the trash folder and internet history.

wannaBe Tue 17-Sep-13 16:15:26

op, Before you start replying to emails and engaging with the OW ask yourself why it is you want to. Right now you are angry and rightly so. But it is easy to do things in the heat of anger which we later regret. If you reply to this ow, what are your reasons for doing so? Because you want to get back at her? As tempting as it is revenge is not the answer, and while the ow played a part it is ultimately your dh who is answerable to you. The ow is responsible for her own life; while telling her dh might ultimately be the right thing to do (should you so choose) now is not the time for playing games and making her squirm. You need to look after yourself and your dc and the rest will follow.

AmIGoingMad Tue 17-Sep-13 16:16:28

Just read this thread from the beginning. Really feel for you op. it's madness how your world can be flipped so much in the space of a day. I'm so impressed by how you've handled things. I'm sure you must still be in shock too. I'm thinking of you. Can't add any advice to what you've been given but couldn't read this and not post my support to you.

JustinBsMum Tue 17-Sep-13 16:16:28

No don't reply - it is worse waiting for a reply than getting one.

knickyknocks Tue 17-Sep-13 16:18:53

Thank you one and all. I've received amazing support on one of the worst days of my life. This day is right up there with my dad's funeral.

He's gone, I'll have head space once the kids are in bed. I'll have to sign off for a while as things will be hectic once DD comes home. Mum is coming to stay for a few days.

I did reply to that email (I did try yo rise above but probably want her to feel a little anxiety in her life too after my day today) I simply said it's his wife here. Yes I do. All further emails will be deleted.

Have had hubby on phone in tears. No idea if we can or will go forward from here. Time will tell. I just need some me time first. Thank you yo everyone who replied today. Don't know what I would have done without you.

Ezio Tue 17-Sep-13 16:26:39

Dont rest on your laurels that this cheap affair is over, you need hard evidence of the fact and his willingness to get on his and beg you for forgiveness, make him work to have you back, otherwise tell him to take his nasty weak pathetic self to other side of fuck off.

Xales Tue 17-Sep-13 16:27:31

Ahh the tears. Only predicted 2 hours ago. How predictable.

Ignore. They are because he is sorry he has been found out more than sorry for hurting and upsetting you.

Rooners Tue 17-Sep-13 16:29:03

That sounds like a good reply - it means you won't have to deal with any more contact from someone you really don't need in your life.

Well done.

Fwiw - the tears on his part - it's all about him. What a victim mentality.

Stand firm, he's taking the mick and doesn't give a stuff how you feel about it.

ShepherdsPurse Tue 17-Sep-13 16:29:37

He will be crying purely because he has been found out, that his family will find out, that your family will find out, that your dc will be told, that his friends will find out. They are tears for himself and what he will look like to other people.

Don't. Be.Taken.In

ShepherdsPurse Tue 17-Sep-13 16:36:06

And to add to my post, the questions...
Did he cry when he went to mett her all these times?
Did he cry when he was emailing/texting her?
Did he cry each time he went out the dor to the 'gym'?

No he didn't, only when he was found out have the tears come

SpottedDickandCustard Tue 17-Sep-13 16:43:01

Ignore the tears.

He has willingly created the situation about which he is crying.

Stay strong and don't let him worm his way back.

kiriwawa Tue 17-Sep-13 16:43:10

I take my hat off to you, knickyknocks. You've done brilliantly today, especially considering you've had to react so quickly.

Your mum sounds great too, rushing over to be with you - so glad you've got her there with you.

Wellwobbly Tue 17-Sep-13 16:43:45

"Ahh the tears. Only predicted 2 hours ago. How predictable."

And 'it was only a kiss' minimising - that was predicted too!

OP sorry we sound like such a bunch of jaded cynics, but sadly we have learned that they will do anything to get the old dynamic back, you know, the one where things were set up for their benefit whilst they didn't have to do much soul searching. It is very frightening to find out how selfish and using and emotionally unconnected these men are. A few words here, and bit of posturing there, and she will get back into line. Meantime, we are puffing on the pipe of hopium that this time they will get it. We have to NOT do that, and this is why we are telling you to be tough.

And they all follow the same line. That's why we can predict. It is called The Script.

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 17-Sep-13 16:44:42

Crying is such a manipulative tactic - you are supposed to be impressed that your man has been moved to tears when really he's crying because he's been caught red handed. Pathetic snivelling coward - as the betrayed party, your pain and distress is far, far, far worse than his.

OrmirianResurgam Tue 17-Sep-13 16:50:45

"Pathetic snivelling coward - as the betrayed party, your pain and distress is far, far, far worse than his."

Part of the cause of the tears is that very fact! That he is going to have to spend a lot of time dealing with your emotion and that is something a lot of selfish people don't like. He isn't going to be able to push it aside and say 'what about me!'.

I don't doubt he is genuinely very upset and scared but that is a feeling he has earned and it won't him any harm to feel it with full force for a while. I am sure he didn't expect it because he didn't think you would find it. You are both hurting but he caused it.

Viking1 Tue 17-Sep-13 17:21:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Distrustinggirlnow Tue 17-Sep-13 17:45:46

What wellwobbly said.....
Im pleased that your mums coming. That's one thing that always bugged me that I was left to deal with the DC etc whilst all he had to worry about was where the next tissue was coming from to dry his snivelling nose!

Something else I'd like to share with you, just so you don't feel so alone, when my not so DH rang the OW to say it was over, she said the self same thing 'fair enough'

Fair enough ????!!!!! You've ripped my fucking world apart, you and this idiot I'm married to, and the best you can come up with is 'fair enough' angry grrrr even the flipping OW follow a script it would appear unless our OW are one and the same hmm

Take care OP thanks thinking of you

BitOutOfPractice Tue 17-Sep-13 17:45:54

It NEVER ceases to amaze me how predictably these snivelling excuses for men act when they are fund out. Pathetic

OP well done, you ROCKED today even if you didnt feel like you did

anewdispensation Tue 17-Sep-13 17:48:43

Well done op. I feel for you

The whole "fair enough" thing does rather smack of forewarned and forearmed.

Loving your work, OP!

MissGarth Tue 17-Sep-13 18:02:39

OP, just wanted to say I am moved by your dignity and courage in the face of what must be an overwhelmingly awful day.

AintNobodyGotTimeFurThat Tue 17-Sep-13 18:17:14

I am so sorry to hear what he has done to you OP.

Now he's making it about him by getting all emotional and crying. It should be about you and how you feel i.e. I will give you space and give you any answers that you need.

But he's still making it about him and that's disgusting, considering what he has done.

Even if he had only kissed her, it's still infidelity. I also doubt he just kissed her. Do people meet up so regularly to just kiss and hold hands when they are grown adults? I doubt it. Especially if they send sexual messages.

Give yourself as much time as you need. Don't let him pressure you into giving him answers or telling him how you feel. It is up to you when you share any of how you are feeling. On an equal measure, don't let this get in the way of his relationship with his kids - after all, this isn't about them. If he wants to see them tomorrow, perhaps have your Mum there whilst you go for a little walk, or sit in the other room if you don't want to leave him alone with them.

I think what you need to do now is sort the children out and then when they have gone to bed give yourself some time to relax and think. Take your time. It's a big thing and it wont all make sense and you will probably go through a number of different emotions within the first few days, weeks and months and that's perfectly normal (plus understandable).

Going to watch this thread and am thinking of you in this awful situation and your lovely children.

Lots of thanks and cake for you x

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 17-Sep-13 18:48:26

Orm - I very much doubt that. I do think that genuinely remorseful cheaters will at a later stage realise just how much pain they have caused you. But upon discovery, having been extremely selfish, entitled and self absorbed for some time, it is muc more likely that the tears are for himself.

MusicForTheMasses Tue 17-Sep-13 19:11:09

It's the same old story time and time again unfortunately. They all play out in the same way. I'm surprised you havent been told you are mad and imagining it. Always remember, his tears are for himself, not for you.

Big, big hugs. I've been in court today for my First Appointment following the discovery of my STBXH's affair last year. MN kept me sane. You WILL get through this and discover you are stronger than you ever thought you could be.

knickyknocks Tue 17-Sep-13 19:19:52

Kids in bed and asleep. I still feel as sick as a dog but will try and get some food down. I need my energy as DS still gets up twice a night for feeds.

I haven't heard from hubby, but I expect my MIL to be,giving him a hard time (too right) she's a family means everything type. Tomorrow is another day. I have tortured myself enough today looking at the email I did forward to my email address. Going,to go to bed. Still feel incredibly tearful, but have taken strength from all your support.

Vivacia Tue 17-Sep-13 19:42:46

Another woman here knicky admiring your strength and courage. Sleep well.

forumdonkey Tue 17-Sep-13 19:53:12

I was following this thread on my phone as it unfolded today (I was at work) and have just caught up with whats happened. I just want to also add, my respect for you OP how you have handled the situation and yourself. You have shown, strength, courage and dignity throughout the day. My thoughts and much love and respect to you now and in the next few weeks. Stay strong and courageous.

chaosagain Tue 17-Sep-13 20:00:19

I hope you can get some rest and I also have great admiration for your strength and dignity today. X

MissStrawberry Tue 17-Sep-13 20:07:01

Can you get into his email again as it no longer matters if he sees you have forwarded all his emails? If not, tell him to give you his password right now and then you change it..

Well done to you op you have handled this with dignity. Take care of yourself.

BitOutOfPractice Tue 17-Sep-13 21:50:54

Hope you get some sleep OP. You got through this day and you will survive. Promise

LozzaCro Tue 17-Sep-13 22:15:56

knickyknocks, I just wanted to say how in awe I am of you right now. You have reacted with such restraint and dignity.

He is a dick of the highest order, and does not deserve you.

Lxx

perfectstorm Wed 18-Sep-13 01:05:34

I'm so incredibly sorry he's done this to you and the children, OP. I hope you got some sleep.

knickyknocks Wed 18-Sep-13 06:08:43

Ok, so after yesterday's awfulness I've been able to establish the following

- through MIL he has given me the login and password to his email
- It is clear now reading the emails that they hadn't done the do but have been intimate
- they've met 3 times
- She was pushing him to take things further but so far he had made excuses about why he couldn't make those dates
- He had email exchanges last year for about a month with someone he works with. These were sex talk and the emails suggest this was all fantasy and not acted on.

Of course knowing he hasn't done the do with either of these women is better than it could have been, but what I need to work out is, he has been unfaithful twice (I count the sex talk as unfaithful) and if I hadn't of seen the emails yesterday whether he would have ended up having sex with her sad

BTW she didn't reply to,my email yesterday.

AllOverIt Wed 18-Sep-13 06:27:39

You've been amazing Nikki.

I would take some space without him to digest this information to allow yourself to work out how you feel. For me it's a deal breaker, but that might not be the case for you.

Good luck

Vivacia Wed 18-Sep-13 06:43:32

Either way the advice is always to give the cheating partner the impression that its over so they realise just what they've lost.

Is your mother-in-law being ok with you?

knickyknocks Wed 18-Sep-13 06:56:16

Yes MIL is fully supportive of me. She thinks her son is an idiot. I had a feeling she'd be like that. She has very strong morals and feels disgusted with him.

Yesterday was a massive shock, today it's real. I still feel so tearful. Two women?? I don't care he didn't do the most intimate of stuff. What I need to try and get my head round was the thought was there for him.

picklebumplum Wed 18-Sep-13 07:18:22

Hi knicky

What a horrible situation, now you are more in the picture of what has happened how do you feel?

In my opinion I think the fact it was less sexual and more emotional worse, a quick no feelings fumble is bad and not acceptable but investing time and emotions into two women? To me unforgivable.

Distrustinggirlnow Wed 18-Sep-13 07:42:00

Morning knicky,
Just logging on to share a brew with you and to see how you are this morning as all this sinks in....

I'm pleased you've seen the emails, as painful as that is, IMO knowing the truth is better as it's there, fact, whereas if you don't know you can make up all sorts of stories in your head.

It's also good that you have support irl.

Take it easy today. It's up to you and you alone if you feel that your relationship together can continue. He will always be in your life because of the DC. him being at his DM house will give him first hand experience at what his life may well become.

And that's down to him. He may well play the depressed card, or the MLC card. All bollocks. Or the 'you didn't give me any attention' card. None of those scenarios give him the right to put a part of his anatomy into another woman's hand or mouth. But I know you know this..

Thinking of you today OP thanks

KoalaFace Wed 18-Sep-13 08:14:02

Morning Knicky. brew

Just want to echo what Distrusting said. You've been getting a lot of advice and thoughts from people with forst hand experience on here. It will be great for you to read and take in but ultimately it down to you and what you feel. We'll be here, not judging, no matter what.

I do hope you are able to take enough time to work through your feelings and let him stay at his DM's and realise what he has potentially lost. That realisation of his loss is often the most powerful tool you have.

Oh no. Another twist in the story unfolds.
I don't know what I'd do in this situation to be honest.
For some this would be work-able for others it's a deal breaker.
Just give yourself some more time to digest and understand where your boundaries are.
I hope you have an OK day today and lean on your family and friends right now. They want to help.
Keep us posted on what happens. Everyone is here to support you no matter what you decide to do.
You've been amazing so far. Keep going.

Two women while you are pregnant and have a small baby - and now the guy is crying.

You've had a terrible shock op, but you have dealt with it with such strength and resolve. Hope you have lots of support today.

Meerka Wed 18-Sep-13 10:11:08

Knickyknock, I think you have handled this beautifully on the basis of the information you had.

Now new information has come out and it's very clear your Husband was on the path to having an affair, but the reality -seems- to be that he didn't yet. In fact the month of sexual emails last year came to a close (who brought it to a close, him or her?) and it sounds like in fact your husband was putting this woman this year off rather, rather than being keen to meet her and complete the betrayal.

Without doubt he needed a very sharp wake up call. It probably came came just in time.

But he didn't actually consummate the betrayal. Not yet. Because you found out in time, he may not ever - he's obviously very shaken.

Not saying what he did is right here, highly sexual emails with others and (at the least) a kiss is not right at all. But equally it could have been a whole lot worse.

It's possible that if he and you both have time to think, something can be salvaged from all this. Men, well, people, do sometimes get brought up sharp and have to think about what they really want and decide that their wife is way more important than cheap affairs.

I'm suggesting you at least talk when you are both calmer and keep in mind that in fact, your husband and the OW didn't do the dirty. From the info you had, you did everything right. Now you have new info, and in reality he does seem to have avoided meeting the OW and the finally breaking your trust and his own decency.

I hope that whatever you decide, you can stay as strong as you have so far and are able to take care of yourself hugs

RollerCola Wed 18-Sep-13 11:36:55

Any advice on coping after h moves out?

RollerCola Wed 18-Sep-13 11:37:24

Sorry, wrong thread, ignore me.

knickyknocks Wed 18-Sep-13 15:18:51

meerka your post is very true. He came close to a full blown affair but it appears didn't go through with it.

Today, I've met with a wonderful MNer who offered a listening ear and sage wise advice. Together with the advice on here, it's given me the chance to think about all my options.

DH will stay at MIL for the time being, and when I feel ready we'll discuss how we'll go forward, no doubt with Relate sessions. It will take a long time to rebuild the trust and if it doesn't work then a separation may be our only option. I certainly don't want a marriage that means I'm constantly worried about where DH is.

Glad to hear you are managing to talk this through.
Only you know what you want from all this.
Good luck with everything that comes along.
And keep us updated on how it all goes.

AmIGoingMad Wed 18-Sep-13 18:46:09

Wow knicky- just when you're starting to get your head around things, another curve ball.

It sounds like, once again, you are dealing incredibly well with things. On the surface at least.

Please make sure you continue to get the support you need- here or in rl.

You really are one impressive lady!

FairPhyllis Wed 18-Sep-13 19:52:20

OP, there used to be a really excellent poster on this board who had a lot of insight into rebuilding marriages after emotional/physical affairs, if that's what you want to try. She was very much of the opinion that affairs happen not because the unfaithful partner isn't getting enough from the marriage, but because they are not putting enough into the marriage and because they are making themselves vulnerable to having affairs through their behaviours/beliefs/lifestyle.

She and her husband's marriage had survived his affair, but she was of the opinion that you can't recover from an affair unless the unfaithful partner truly recognises and is genuinely remorseful for the hurt he has caused (rather than being sorry for themself or trying to minimise), and unless he also examines his own character flaws which made him open to having an affair. Try to avoid counselling which assumes there must have been something wrong with the marriage in the first place. And he has to be fully committed to the process of creating a new marriage, otherwise it doesn't work.

And the normal book she and people here recommended was Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass.

higgle Thu 19-Sep-13 09:46:01

Shirley Glass has been dead for 10 years now and although her work is interesting she was educated in a Catholic University and does come at things from this perspective. Like everything else in life there are no hard and fast rules as to why people become unfaithful, there are multiple factors in most situations and perhaps lack of communication is the only common thread. I'm 57 and have seen a number of friends and colleagues go through this situation, many marriages do survive and become stronger, closer and more realistic over time.

I don't believe lack of communication to be a common thread.

The common thread would probably be one partner deciding to put their wants and desires above the partnership. (for whatever reason)

Hope you are ok, op. I would struggle with this especially because the two suggests such intention- he did not slip into a relationship with someone he liked- instead he seemed to have actively looked for sexual kicks with anyone available. I hope you are getting lots of support. I think he needs to really explore what made him so entitled and faithless.

familyscapegoat Thu 19-Sep-13 13:30:56

No the common thread is not a lack of communication. Communication isn't only verbal in any case and even silence is a communication. The common thread in affairs is selfishness.

That book that's been recommended was great for us, although we found we'd been doing all that was recommended, fairly instinctively. It would have been great to have known about it at the time of discovery, especially as it was a fairly new publication then.

It was by far the most difficult book for my husband to read though and I noticed after joining Mumsnet that the people who disliked it most were the people who'd been unfaithful themselves and tellingly, had never actually read it properly. My husband's approach was to recognise that reading something that was uncomfortable would probably provide the most learning and he would now unhesitatingly recommend it as the best book for an unfaithful person to read. I do think you have to be very self-aware to get the most out of it and to be prepared to ditch lots of justifications and delusions about your own character and why you behaved so badly to people you were meant to love (including oneself).

MadAboutHotChoc Thu 19-Sep-13 13:36:31

Agree that selfishness is the common thread.

Also agree that reading Not Just Friends is to be recommended - its not an easy book to read for the cheater because its like looking into a mirror.

Wellwobbly Thu 19-Sep-13 13:43:51

Family are you talking about Not Just Friends?

Your husband's reaction is interesting - and the fact that you are reconciling.

He said that it was excruciatingly hard to read - and he kept on reading it. Kudos to him.

My husband got as far as the doors and windows analogy, and decided that was all he needed to know. He did not carry on reading the book.

He got diagnosed as a narcissist, sadly, and I had had to file. You cannot fix a marriage on your own.

Lucky you, for having an H who had the courage to continue to go into areas that were strange and difficult for him. Please tell him he has my respect.

Would you say it has helped him? Has he changed at all, become more thoughtful?

familyscapegoat Thu 19-Sep-13 13:58:24

Yes it was the Shirley Glass book, but no I wasn't lucky that he read it or that he made fundamental changes to his ways of operating, not just as a husband but as a person. He was the lucky one who got his marriage back, but only on condition that he changed. That's not to be snippy, but to me this is central. I wasn't lucky. I got the husband and co-parent I should have always had. I would have been short-changing myself massively if I'd have settled for anything less after what happened. If he hadn't been willing to even read a book, he would have been long gone. Of course, he did much, much more than that in reality and I wouldn't have settled for anything less.

knickyknocks Thu 19-Sep-13 14:36:54

Agree thisisaeuphromism this was about him getting his sexual kicks and I also,agree that I think it could have been with just about anyone who gave him the opportunity.

We have spoken, and he has offered all sorts, tracker on his phone (I don't want to track his phone, I want to trust him!), going to relate, making far more effort in our marriage.

If I'm completely honest, I too can take some of the blame for our relationship going downhill, though would never have been unfaithful - even if that didn't involve him having sex. Sharing sexual fantasies and kissing/touching a woman who's not your wife is infidelity, pure and simple.

Interesting about the book. I'm thinking this is a book for DH to read primarily?

familyscapegoat Thu 19-Sep-13 15:00:20

No relationship is perfect and there isn't a marriage in the world that doesn't have the occasional slump or point when it's just ticking along, neither wildly happily nor desperately unhappily. This might sound strange, but can I ask you why you are talking about the state of your relationship? Why does it have to have anything to do with that? Is he saying that he wouldn't have done this if he'd been happy with you then?

Be careful about two things here. One, believing completely that there was no physical involvement with any woman at any time and two, that your relationship caused this. It's one of most naive (but understandable) beliefs that making him happy again would stop him straying, because it just won't. Only he can make himself happy again, investing so heavily in his relationship that it would be suicide to jeopardise what he has worked so hard to attain.

You need to read that book too. It dispels a lot of myths. Just make sure he has his own copy and reads it too.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Thu 19-Sep-13 15:11:32

As Cluffyflump said on Tuesday, you don't have to be perfect to deserve a non-cheating spouse.

familyscapegoat Thu 19-Sep-13 15:15:46

I'd be very wary about Relate too. They've got a hopeless reputation for dealing with infidelity of any kind and that reputation is richly deserved. After a friend's experience with them, we wouldn't have touched them with a bargepole.

In our case, the affair caused the most significant problems in our relationship and so once that was over, we had enough skills and a foundation strong enough to create a new relationship. We had separate counselling because we realised we were individuals first and foremost and that we needed different things from therapy. We both chose properly qualified and trained therapists on recommendation and after quite rigorous screening. Don't go too soon either and definitely not when you are both in shock. Couples counselling really isn't always appropriate for this but if you're going to go for that instead of or as well as individual therapy, think about someone other than Relate.

MadBusLady Thu 19-Sep-13 15:20:43

knicky please be careful that you are not rushing to absorb this betrayal into a narrative that makes it less painful and more like a shared problem - "it could have been anyone", "I can take my share of the blame for the relationship problems".

You haven't even got to counselling stage and you're already trying to work out "reasons" why he did this to your little family, in a context he is helping you create because you're still talking to him.

It is (obviously) hugely in his interests to help you build this narrative as fast as he can make you. Don't do it too quickly and regret stuffing all your responses back in their box later.

knickyknocks Thu 19-Sep-13 15:40:55

Wise counsel from all. I think I have to give myself a jolt and say that this was his doing not mine.it feels so easy to apportion some of the blame to me.

He should have bloody spoken to me if he was unhappy not have met up with this woman in a car park and did God knows what. He says he's been an idiot, and inexcusable for what he did. he said he wanted the attention. To me it feels like he's saying all the right things but it feels far too soon to move on in any way. I need to get over the hurt first. And I'm still so angry.

Thanks for the tip off about relate. Won't be using them.

familyscapegoat Thu 19-Sep-13 15:52:29

Yes but was he 'unhappy'? With you at least?

I remember saying to my husband 'but why didn't you talk to me about being unhappy in our relationship?' and he looked at me in astonishment and said 'because I wasn't!' What he did say was that he had felt too proud to admit that he wasn't coping with something at work and that the affair had been an escape from that, but not from our relationship.

It feels easy to apportion the blame on yourself for two reasons, I think. One is because everyone assumes for some reason that people only do this when they are unhappy at home and two because it's comforting to think you could have stopped this happening if you'd put your mind to it - and could therefore stop it happening again. It must be worse too if a husband is actually doing that blaming the marriage thing, so I hope he isn't.

leylandii Thu 19-Sep-13 15:53:26

Oh dear Knicky, it looks like he is talking you round, far far too soon.

Please sit back and really absorb all that has happened.

Stay on your own for a while, see how life is panning out before you make any effort to repair the damage.

familyscapegoat Thu 19-Sep-13 15:55:11

and I'm so sorry to say this, but if he actually met up with anyone in a car park, sex or physical contact of some sort has happened. This was a physical affair.

leylandii Thu 19-Sep-13 15:56:55

Agree familyscapegoat.

And you only have his word for it that they didn't have sex. It is the last thing men want to admit.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Omg sorry!

knickyknocks Thu 19-Sep-13 16:16:49

Yes that's right I read all the emails and it wad clear that they hadn't had sex. There was talk of meeting, kissing and touching. I think if they had done the do they would have written about it. All that said, it's still infidelity.

He's still at MIL, I think you're all right when you say I'm still absorbing the shock - and for me one of the questions is would he have ended up having sex with her if I hadn't seen the emails?

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Thu 19-Sep-13 16:22:49

Speaking for myself I just hope you don't feel rushed knicky, it seems only fair you get to set the pace.

He said he wanted the attention. That is probably true. It may have felt gloriously simple and uncomplicated, pure indulgence, all for him, however transitory. When someone says, it could have been anyone - no abiding personal attachment perhaps but hardly reassuring.

Having wanted that attention, having scoped for it and having granted himself at the very least a stimulating part of it, I'm wondering if he can put that genie back in the bottle.

Wellwobbly Thu 19-Sep-13 16:25:26

Ahem! Ahem! An announcement:

"I wasn't lucky that he read it or that he made fundamental changes to his ways of operating, not just as a husband but as a person. He was the lucky one who got his marriage back, but only on condition that he changed. That's not to be snippy, but to me this is central. I wasn't lucky. I got the husband and co-parent I should have always had. I would have been short-changing myself massively if I'd have settled for anything less after what happened. If he hadn't been willing to even read a book, he would have been long gone. Of course, he did much, much more than that in reality and I wouldn't have settled for anything less."

FAMILYSCAPEGOAT ROCKS

<Wobbly looks at the fundamental mistake she made. But will never, ever make again>

familyscapegoat Thu 19-Sep-13 17:42:41

I'm so sorry to rain on your parade, but if I'd read the E mails between my husband and the OW, I wouldn't have known any sexual contact had taken place either. There was a reason for that, because they were both married and knew that E mails were indelible records, so were both careful not to include any actual proof of adultery. Whereas the OW knew that texts were fair game, as once deleted couldn't be retrieved. I think it's safer to assume that some sort of sex or physical contact happened, even if it wasn't penis in vagina sex. Some people regard only that as 'sex' after all, but of course it isn't.

? On the deleted posts. Thank you Wobbly and I'm very sorry for your pain.

I triple posted, sorry- that's why the deleted posts!

familyscapegoat Thu 19-Sep-13 17:55:47

Thanks for clearing that up. I'm not here very often and I often come across threads with deleted posts and never know if I'm putting my foot in it or not!!

kiriwawa Thu 19-Sep-13 18:04:04

Familyscapegoat - that post (about not being lucky) deserves to go up there with Reality's one on what a good relationship looks like.

I really do think MN women should write a book on what to do post-affair.

knicky - I also think you need to take things really slowly. I think you need to find your rage before you even think of moving forward.

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