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Xp moved himself back in!!!!!! Advice please!

(154 Posts)
mammadiggingdeep Mon 16-Sep-13 10:21:27

Cannot believe this. He's been gone nearly 7 months.....shitty behaviour since dd1 was born 3 years ago. Lack of affection, stonewalling, moody, unreasonable etc etc. I was a mug, took it all and tried to make things better. In march I discovered he'd been cheating and something in me clicked. I asked him to leave and he went.

We own the house together, it's in the middle of being renovated (by him). Since then he has virtually stopped doing anything to the house but was coming a bit to do bits in the first few months. He's continued paying half the mortgage payments.

Anyway, yesterday when I came home from being out with the DCs, he was here...doing some decorating. When I went upstairs I spotted a holdall bag. He stayed the night on sofa and when kissed dd1 goodbye said he'll be back later sad

I didn't speak to him at all....I didn't want to engage. I didnt want a row in front of the DCs who were pleased to see him. Wtf do I do??? Legally he's within his rights to move back in isnt he??? I can't do it sad

I offered to buy him out but he won't have it. Can't sell on the market yet as it's not finished and we wouldn't make as much money as I'd need for a future house.

Shit!! What if he stays put??!!!!!!! Shall I text him and tell him not to come back as door will be locked? Do I stay quiet and think on it for few days?? What do I do?? Please help....am panicking.

anon2013 Mon 16-Sep-13 10:55:50

I'd try your local Citizens advice bureau, they should be able to help. the other option is meet a solicitor to see where you stand.

mammadiggingdeep Mon 16-Sep-13 11:02:12

Yes, I thought a solicitor would be good idea. Just do not need this!!!

Lweji Portugal Mon 16-Sep-13 11:13:48

You could change the locks right now and deal with legalities later, particularly before he actually starts living there again.

Just because he owns it, he doesn't necessarily have the right to live there, particularly if he's been living elsewhere for that long.

If you were renting the place out, you couldn't just go in and start living there, could you?

MadBusLady Mon 16-Sep-13 11:15:24

Don't panic. I know, easier said than done. But him moving himself back in, while irritating and unreasonable in the extreme (and very cruel to your DC) does NOT mean you are going to take him back. Whatever he thinks. This is just an episode of fuckwittery you have to deal with sad

I'd be a bit concerned that if he won't let you buy him out, he won't consent to the house sale when the time comes either. So definitely legal advice will be needed at some stage.

Will finishing the house really make that much difference to the sale price?

MadBusLady Mon 16-Sep-13 11:17:31

Tenants have a contract giving them a right to peaceful enjoyment though, Lweji. I think mamma is right to be cautious about stuff like changing locks until she's had some legal advice.

mammadiggingdeep Mon 16-Sep-13 11:18:32

No....that's an interesting point lweji, thanks.

I really feel like changing the locks. How dare he just cone back without a word???!! Poor dd1 has just got used to not living with daddy. I cannot live under the same roof as him I know that much.

Also, just got tax credits sorted to cover child care etc. Of he's here but we're not together am I entitled or not?? What if he's living here against my will. What a bloody mess sad

Just though things were on the up. Wtf is his game????

mammadiggingdeep Mon 16-Sep-13 11:20:23

Yes madbuslady....prob be difference of about 20 grand to me which as I'm now on my own I obviously really need. It is yet another episode of fuck wittery.......thought the worst was over. sad

mammadiggingdeep Mon 16-Sep-13 11:21:42

Do you think I should speak to him today (via text) or get legal advice first?

unBant Mon 16-Sep-13 11:24:38

I seem to remember reading that once someone has moved out, after 6 months go by without them spending the night, they no longer have right of access.

I think legally he's not permitted to stay there, even if he owns the house, as he's been gone for so long. But get it checked out and work out how you'll deal with it. The police should back you up if needed if he's breaking the law. You should be entitled to change the locks

Lweji Portugal Mon 16-Sep-13 11:26:46

The tenant situation is different, of course, it was just to illustrate that ownership doesn't give full rights.
In this case he had already been living elsewhere for 7 months.
It's not a situation of kicking him out when he's still living there and nowhere to go.

(a word of caution to those whose partners leave, it may not be forever, so keep them out and change locks when they do leave)

Do seek legal help regarding the house, but I'd take immediate measures and seek legal support later.
You may get a court order to make him sell the house.
Don't postpone getting all the advice you can get.

Lweji Portugal Mon 16-Sep-13 11:28:12

I wouldn't speak to him until the situation is resolved and you know where you stand.

mammadiggingdeep Mon 16-Sep-13 11:30:47

Thanks legal advice it I'd then ASAP. My dad told me to change the locks the day he went....I said no as didn't want to get nasty. When will I learn???!! A) my parents are always right b) by me not getting tough I invite him to walk over me....it's happened again?!

mammadiggingdeep Mon 16-Sep-13 11:32:12

Unbant...he spent the night on the sofa a few times when he was doing decorating etc and on dd's bday. So technically has been here overnight in the 6 months. However....no proof of it I guess....

unBant Mon 16-Sep-13 12:09:22

I'm not sure if that would count, I think it's meant to cover situations where a couple splits up, gets back together, splits up again etc. If you didn't share a room/bed then I don't think it would be a problem.

unBant Mon 16-Sep-13 12:10:04

but I'm not a lawyer, so.. you'd have to get legal advice. I just remember reading that after I'd been living apart from my ex for a year but the house was still legally mine.

mammadiggingdeep Mon 16-Sep-13 13:24:20

Ok, thanks. Will call a solicitor today and try to make sense of it all.

cestlavielife Mon 16-Sep-13 13:24:32

he ahs a key and he is renovating it -by your consent presumably. so it is a bit muddy.

if you letting him in to decorate then he will find it pretty easy to stay wont he? and he could jsut say it was easier to stay to carry on renovating....
so you need to decide how to manage that one. either you let him in to decorate or you dont...

you can use TOLATA trusts of land act (and maybe invoke childrens act in order tod ecide if soem share shoudl go towards housing the dc) to force a sale but it's complex and not a quick process.

Jagdkuh Mon 16-Sep-13 14:38:26

huh? why cant he stay in the house? he has every legal right too.

also, he is doing the house up, you are reaping the rewards.

mammadiggingdeep Mon 16-Sep-13 14:44:13

Because jag, he is abusive and we have spilt up and agreed to live separately. I didn't ask him to continue to decorate, he has just done it (very occasionally when he wants to come in the house).
I didn't post to defend my position. I don't want him there and I've asked for advice. I know he is legally emtitled to be there, I said as much in my post

mammadiggingdeep Mon 16-Sep-13 15:07:51

Thanks Cestlavie.
Wasn't actually letting him in, he had his key. Tried to keep things amicable so didn't actually ask him to stop decorating, also have two very young dc and wamtedhouse sorted for their sake, no carpets etc at the mo.
Thanks for advice.

Jagdkuh Mon 16-Sep-13 15:21:12

but if he has never been physically abusive, and has only (only being used very carefully) been abusive to the extent of Lack of affection, stonewalling, moody, unreasonable etc etc (not saying this is any less important..) shouldn't you just grit your teeth and get on with it? Would he not know that his actions would cause you go down to the legal route? Is he infact just loving the fact that you are so upset by this, that those are his only intentions? Surely him living there will result in the house being fixed quicker, and sold quicker, and the two of you can move on. does he see his children much?

cestlavielife Mon 16-Sep-13 15:27:46

if he has a key to come in to decorate and is not someone you can trust then he is going to come in when he likes...
so it is as if you letting him in (by letting him have key) .

if he has a key he can turn up any time and let himself in at any time.... so you can decide whether it's worth him doing the decorating etc and him having a key to do that; or he only does that when you are there to let him in (ie no key);

or you pay someone else to decorate.

if it is a problem for him to come in the house you need to take away key, change lock and pay someone else to decorate. (or just buy some cheap rugs from ikea or carpet offcuts from a local carpet shop to throw down; they dont need to be comepletely fitted to look ok for a sale . )

you cant really follow it up legally (like getting an occupation order) if on paper you have agreed (in his eye?) that he can come in to decorate when he wants (or when he thinks he wants); apart from fact it is jointly his...

MadBusLady Mon 16-Sep-13 15:32:50

jag I really don't think the OP should waste one minute worrying about whether or not he is "just loving the fact that you are so upset". Who gives a shit what he thinks? This is not a psychological game. All she needs to know is can she shift him legally. If not, then she'll have to reassess.

mammadiggingdeep Mon 16-Sep-13 15:33:08

He would never ever give me the key, not an option. Yes, I would rather just do it myself but he won't agree. He is controlling and does not like me to have any power at all. If I had enough money coming in, I'd move out, rent and continue to pay my half of the mortgage whilst trying to force a sale. Thought of living in same house makes me anxious and sick.
I was doing ok and getting on with my life, which is probably why he's decided to move back. Think I'll have to do a quick job getting it ready for sale, like u say, ikea rugs etc and then go down the route of forced sale if he won't sell. sad stresssssssss!

mammadiggingdeep Mon 16-Sep-13 15:35:51

Jag, yes,I expect I'm going to have to 'grit my teeth'. I'm just gutted because I spent last 3 years of the relationship doing just that. I know he's playing games- of which I've had enough and dont want any more stress/drama in my life.
He sees them when he wants, on his terms. Like everything.

Damnautocorrect Mon 16-Sep-13 15:42:42

If I remember rightly you can only change the locks if you pay all the interest on the mortgage as you are preventing them from benefiting. Also, you are right tax credits will take it that he's living there so contributing I'm afraid.
But do get proper legal advice ASAP as they will probably have some tricks to get him out.

Mama1980 Mon 16-Sep-13 15:43:04

What a nightmare op.
I'm no expert but if he's moved out and been living elsewhere then I think you may have grounds to say he cannot just walk back in. Can you call a solicitor immediately? 101 even to find out your rights?

BIWI Cote D'Ivoire Mon 16-Sep-13 15:44:46

I would, if he is out of the house now, make sure that you have put the chain on the door, or locked it from the inside. Technically you haven't changed the locks this way, but you have made it impossible for him to come in.

If he has put his stuff in the bag that he needs for tonight/the morning, then leave his bag outside for him.

Text him to tell him that you do not want him coming in and that you have left his bag outside for him to collect when it is convenient for him. And when he comes back, make sure that you are upstairs/out of the way. D on't engage with him at all. If he gets unpleasant in any way, call the police and tell them that your ex is trying to break into the house.

You need to stop him coming in, and to put an end to his working on the house. You're either separated or you aren't.

He can't just assume that he can move back in if you have already agreed that you are to live separate lives.

Can you not stop him coming over to do work on the house?

mammadiggingdeep Mon 16-Sep-13 15:53:02

BIWI......that is what I'm thinking to do but I'm actually scared. I just l don't want the confrontation. I'm fuming that he thinks he can come back, affecting me and dc in such a way. If ever I needed confirmation that splitting was right, it's this.

BIWI Cote D'Ivoire Mon 16-Sep-13 15:56:52

But he's doing this because he can. You are letting him. You need to take back some control here, and therefore some of his power.

If you're in the house, what kind of confrontation can there be? And if he kicks off, then call the police.

mammadiggingdeep Mon 16-Sep-13 15:57:56

Damnauto....maybe I should offer to pay all mortgage payment...then ask him to respect mg space until we sell...

BIWI Cote D'Ivoire Mon 16-Sep-13 15:59:57

Why on earth would you suggest that?! He isn't going to respect you at all. You have to act to stop him behaving like this, not punish yourself even further.

Don't let him walk all over you.

Mama1980 Mon 16-Sep-13 16:02:58

I agree with BIWI you need to do something

fromparistoberlin Mon 16-Sep-13 16:08:09

see a lawyer OP, and manage it fairly and legally

arsehole or not, its half his home. BUT you have kids so good luck

hope you can get it so that you buy him out

Lweji Portugal Mon 16-Sep-13 16:10:55

Regarding the mortgage, he half owns it, so he should still pay half.
Plus he's paying for his children's accommodation, not just yours.

If you offered to pay his part, he'd still be entitled to half the house, but he wouldn't have that expense. You'd be paying his share and he'd still be entitled to the house (or to live there) as before.

mammadiggingdeep Mon 16-Sep-13 16:27:32

Bwiw, you're right, I am letting him. He is doing it because be can. He's got away with murder for years and ne asking him to go and ending it was the first time I'd stood up to myself.
If I lock him out tonight, he could just let himself in when I'm out....shall I get locks changed then? I'm back to that now.....

bubblebabeuk Mon 16-Sep-13 16:34:03

Watching this one.
Change the locks and if you need to call the police tell them its your ex causing a problem and your scared for the safety of your small children. They get there quicker. Hugs

Is there any evidence of his abusive behaviour? Have you ever had to call the police to remove him temporarily, for example? If there is, you stand a better chance of getting a court order to keep him out of the house on the grounds that your safety and that of the children could be at risk.
Unfortunately, the fact that you have been accepting him coming in to decorate may otherwise make it harder for you to keep him out legally. But please bear in mind that he can't just have his own way and insist on maintaining a romantic relationship with you against your wishes.
You have ended the relationship, so it's finished no matter what he says or does.
For the moment, do you feel safe with him in the house, or do you think he may attack you physically or try to have sex on you? If you think it's safe enough, the best thing to do is pretty much ignore him. Don't cook for him or do his washing, don't speak to him unless it's strictly necessary, and get on with consulting solicitors re forcing the sale of the house or whatever.
But if you think he's potentially dangerous, have a word with the police DV unit about your concerns and see what they advise. Good luck. You will get rid of him eventually.

mammadiggingdeep Mon 16-Sep-13 17:35:17

Thanks sgb. No, no evidence and I am safe. It's going to be a horrible atmosphere and him acting like lord of the manner. I definately will not be doing anything for him. It's really unfair on dc. Last night DD was playing with him, I called her for a bath, he carried on playing with her so of course she didn't cone upstairs for the bath. He didn't tell her to go upstairs or end the game. Aaaarrrrggghhh! It's going to be so much harder with him there. I don't think he thinks the relationship will continue- I just don't know what he's thinking. If I state my piece and aak him what he's thinking I'll either get ignored or told "I'm here because it's half mine".
Am at a friends house and am dreading going home. What a mess. Still not sure which way to play this. Really had got used to being unstressed and feeling happier. sad

Fairenuff Mon 16-Sep-13 17:38:20

I think BIWI has the right approach. Lock him out until you can get legal advice. If he is aggressive, call the police, they certainly won't let him in even if he has a legal right to be there. Your safety will trump that. If you are worried about him possibly gaining entry and putting your safety at risk, call the police beforehand and ask them to be alert to your call.

PoppyField Mon 16-Sep-13 21:29:52

Hi mamma,
Sorry to hear this has happened to you. What an arsehole. And yes, agree with others who say you have to be strong and take the power back. Definitely plonk the plonker's holdall out of the front door and put the chain on the door or do something to lock it from the inside. This is outrageous behaviour and a really nasty trick to play on your children. Tell him to get lost and that you'll be calling the police if he tries to get in.

Being non-confrontational hasn't worked. And I know that you think that he can ratchet up the 'confrontation' as much as he likes, with no regard to anyone but himself, but I think you have to risk that here. He can't expect to come back into the home. He has to go. You don't have to say anything - actions speak louder than words. And get all the info you need from a solicitor in the morning. I can't think of anything worse than my ex moving back in - after I'd summoned all the energy and courage I'd had to get rid of him in the first place. Get all your courage together again and throw him out again. And be honest with your DD if she's old enough - how old is she? - and say that you're angry because Daddy should not be here and he is breaking the rules you agreed.

Good luck. Yeuch. What a tosser!

mineofuselessinformation Mon 16-Sep-13 21:44:56

Keys on inside of all doors where possible. Bolts/chains on all doors that have them. All lights off downstairs. Do not answer door/phone/mobile. Call police if any problems. Time to let him know he can't control you any more.

mammadiggingdeep Mon 16-Sep-13 23:42:17

Idiot me decided to try the fair and legal route. In he came. I asked what he was thinking, why was he back? Silence. Walked into the lounge, switched the tv on as if I wasn't there. As if the last 7 months hasn't happened. Why did I try to be reasonable?! I'm upstairs fuming. I'm going to have to get tough tomorrow. It's so not me to start licking people out!!!! I dont want this drama. I just want to move on and live in a happy home. How dies he think on any level this is ok or a good idea???!!!!!

Thankyou all for your advice and support

mammadiggingdeep Mon 16-Sep-13 23:43:37

Kicking people out.....definately not licking. Haha. I needed a good laugh.

Noregrets78 Tue 17-Sep-13 00:55:17

watching with interest... my xh who still half owns the house (but contributes nothing) moved out in May. I'm expecting him to turn up in November when his current tenancy runs out. I have no idea what I'll do. OP I really feel for you!

Can you move out instead? Sorry if I've missed the answer to that one somewhere.

Lweji Portugal Tue 17-Sep-13 06:38:06

Don't watch with interest.
Seek inormation and take measures.

Unles you want him back?

Hissy Brazil Tue 17-Sep-13 07:17:09

He has no right to waltz in and switch on your telly!

Tell him that he's gone, and that's the way you insist it stays. That your relationship is over and he needs to go back to where he was for all this time.

Change the locks and don't let him sit on your sofa and ignore you.

Anyone in this situation? Change the locks now and make it damned clear to them that they are out, and staying out!

mammadiggingdeep Tue 17-Sep-13 07:20:29

I can go somewhere else if the worst comes to tje worst. I've just settled the children into pre school and nursery. I could live at my sisters but it's 25 minutes away.

I'll be getting legal advice today, and bolting the door from the inside tonight. Why I thought I could be reasonable I don't know. I realise now he's not going to sell without a fight either. great.

mammadiggingdeep Tue 17-Sep-13 07:26:23

Hissy, I called his brother and told him to cone and get his brother or I would get the police to come. He came over and we talked 'through' him for a good hour. I stated that I will not live under the sane roof as him, we're over and it is totally unhealthy for everyone. I have stated that unless he goes, I will be forced to move the dds away. I am fuming that he thought he could move in without so much as a glance in my direction. He kept saying that he pays half the mortgage! I said yes, it's an investment you'll get back and it keeps a roof over your dds heads. He got nasty called me names...I said why would u want to live here when we can't stand each other???
That's the last time I engage. Tonight the door will be locked and phone off.

Lweji Portugal Tue 17-Sep-13 07:26:38

He may be more likely to sell if he realises he can't use the house...

Do get tough.

Remember, the police can't force you to allow him in. He'll have to go through the court for that.

In any case 25 min away seems ok for some peace.

Jaynebxl Tue 17-Sep-13 07:28:19

Don't move out under any circumstances if you can avoid it. And do get legal advice asap. I kno you said you would yesterday and didn't. .. don't put it off or he will start new habits and put down roots.

mammadiggingdeep Tue 17-Sep-13 07:42:08

Yeah, but 25 minutes away, so 25 minutes to nursery drop off then 45 minutes on to work. Full day teaching then the same in the evening. Doable but bloody annoying, as he'll be sat in the 3 bedroomed house by himself!!!!

mammadiggingdeep Tue 17-Sep-13 07:44:02

Yes Jayne, I agree. I was silly to think I could do this reasonably with a conversation. Legal advice first thing!

Hissy Brazil Tue 17-Sep-13 07:59:30

This prick is banking on you backing down.

Keep at him, tell him he's not staying. Is his brother supporting you? Or is he neutral?

I agree, as soon as he realises that he's not going to live there, he may want to sell.

mammadiggingdeep Tue 17-Sep-13 08:09:26

Brother supporting.....and just had call from his mum who is in disbelieve at the sheer disrespect. Told me she'll speak to him today.
I think he'll back down when he realises how serious I am.

FiftyShadesofGreyMatter Tue 17-Sep-13 08:13:11

Just change the locks!

mammadiggingdeep Tue 17-Sep-13 08:21:45

Yes, I need to get over always wanting to do the "right" thing. It hasn't got me anywhere so far....fight fire with fire.....

mineofuselessinformation Tue 17-Sep-13 09:56:16

Mamma, so if he won't sell, he's still going to pay towards the mortgage isn't he? Leave that issue to one side until you have sorted out this one. Lock the doors as soon as you get in so you don't forget or have a change of heart later.

mammadiggingdeep Tue 17-Sep-13 11:04:12

Have rung CAB, not answering and you have to leave a message for ring back service. Have rung solicitors, getting s call back this afternoon. Have googled 'occupation order' where one joint owner gets permission to reside with the other one not allowed access. Has to go through the county court and they will favour any decision which benefits children.....sounds like a possible route....

Lweji Portugal Tue 17-Sep-13 11:08:30

Just change the locks!
This.

And go the legal route in the meantime, and get his family to talk to him, but make sure he doesn't get in this evening.

He moved out, you lost your keys, you changed locks. No need to give him new keys, as he has moved out. He wants to get back in he goes through the courts.

But do get an occupation order.

Mama1980 Tue 17-Sep-13 11:22:34

Have been thinking of you op. just change the locks today, (you lost your keys is anyone asks) then get the legal route moving.

mammadiggingdeep Tue 17-Sep-13 11:25:18

I know you're right but it's against my nice nature......I know how that sounds but it's just not in me.......I'm a goody two shoes at heart and this will be the biggest stand I've ever taken against anybody.,......I know you're right.

cestlavielife Tue 17-Sep-13 12:24:42

you need to sort out finances.
you need to calculate base don his nicome what is the right amoutn of child maintenance? ie the amount he paying for mortgage interst may or may not be included in that. you could say if you occupying the house then you should pay all the mortgage interest yourself. - but then there is his child maintenance to factor in.

go to solicitors/mediation and draw up a financial separation agreement. who will pay what. (frineds of mine did this as they werent married when seprated wer able to get things written down clealry) - this could also agre timeline for sale and who gets what from the sale etc - eg do you need more than 50 % of equity to buy some place for the dc? or will they live half time with him? etc

also have you sorted out contact with the DC? how much when where ?

get it allw ritten and agreed in a plan
www.cafcass.gov.uk/PDF/FINAL%20web%20version%20251108.pdf

zipzap Tue 17-Sep-13 12:31:37

Try posting this in the Legal section on MN - there are some very helpful people on there that might be able to steer you in the right direction before you manage to speak to a solicitor and to help with asking the solicitor the right questions.

foolonthehill Tue 17-Sep-13 12:32:25

Legal advice needed....it may be his house, but it is not his habitual residence

When one spouse has moved out the former matrimonial home is no longer their home and it is actually quite difficult for them to move back if they change their mind. Owners' rights to occupy and access a property have to be balanced against the rights of the person living there to privacy and a family life in their home. It would be reasonable to agree any access at a mutually convenient time.

If he unreasonably uses force or intimidation it is a matter for the police and the court can make a non molestation/occupation order effectively giving you occupancy rights and barring your husband from coming to the house.

Pickturethis Tue 17-Sep-13 12:39:52

I didn't think they were married.

mammadiggingdeep Tue 17-Sep-13 12:54:59

We're not married, no.

Thanks for posts. the separation agreement is something that will be really helpful......I've left it all to goodwill and being fair and I think I need to get formal. I am fed up with this drama on my life.

PeterParkerSays Tue 17-Sep-13 13:06:49

Slightly off thread, but there are so many "crap mil" threads on mumsnet, I'm cheered that your's is willing to stand up to her son's poor behaviour on your side.

cestlavielife Tue 17-Sep-13 14:00:44

yeh if you can get it all written and agreed with timelines no need for court - also if you try to do this now eg maybe pay for a mediations ession then if you do end up in court some ground work wil have been done.... i've had to go down court route to sell joint owned property and its lengthy and expensive .

when you not married and not divorcing - you can still find a way tog et things written down properly

foolonthehill Tue 17-Sep-13 14:26:54

sorry...not husband, partner...same advice though and good to have a formal agreement whatever especially if you find it difficult to enforce your (reasonable) boundaries with him.

Hissy Brazil Tue 17-Sep-13 14:28:20

What about calling Shelter? They can advise on property law.

PoppyField Tue 17-Sep-13 14:42:41

Get tough, get tough, get tough!

Well done mamma - keep digging in. Don't let him win. And well done exposing him to his mum and his brother. Shame on him!

mammadiggingdeep Tue 17-Sep-13 19:57:57

FFS...... He was here when I got in. Could actually scream.

mammadiggingdeep Tue 17-Sep-13 20:10:51

Anyone there??
I'm thinking to just ignore and not engage then change locks tomorrow, yes?

SweetSeraphim Tue 17-Sep-13 20:16:51

Fucking hell. I really don't know how I would deal with this. I don't have any advice but I really feel for you thanks

totallydone Tue 17-Sep-13 20:16:52

YES

TimidLivid Tue 17-Sep-13 20:18:00

U are going to need to act or he will be staying and u don't want that yes locks changed tomorrow

SweetSeraphim Tue 17-Sep-13 20:29:33

But will she get into trouble legally??

mammadiggingdeep Tue 17-Sep-13 20:32:51

I'm past caring.....what's the worst they can do?? Take me to court....I'll stand up and say that he was a bloody horrible, manipulative, emotionally abudive person to live with, I was walking on eggshells and if I didn't lock him out I'd have had a mental breakdown!!!!

I almost changed my nickname to mammadugdeepandgotfree the other day......nope......still digging deep!!!! Give me strength!!!!!!!!

IAmNotAMindReader Tue 17-Sep-13 20:37:52

OK, if your going to do it make sure the second thing you do tomorrow is get the legal side of things moving as quick as you can towards an occupation order. Ask also if this would class as harassment in some form as he is now being deliberately belligerent you may be able to get a non molestation or restraining order (don't know the difference between the 2 sadly or if its applicable in your case).

mammadiggingdeep Tue 17-Sep-13 20:42:52

Yes......I just want things formalised. Wonder how long occupation order would take to process? Solicitor would know I guess. The one I spoke to today wasn't totally helpful really but have got appointment to speak in person on Thursday.

zipzap Tue 17-Sep-13 21:01:31

Slight side track - but if he's in your house and you're not there... How safe is all your stuff and the dcs stuff - not just like him stealing things from you - but how likely is he to be going through your files and taking bank account numbers or passports or driving license or birth certificates or other stuff that it is difficult to replace or that you need to have easily to hand. or account numbers for things like your gas or electricity supplier so that he could ring up and cut you off (maybe now, maybe later) or change you to a different supplier or just do things like that to screw with you because he can?

Sounds like he isn't the most reasonable or affable of people and it also sounds like he wants to cause you grief however he can. Horrible mixture if he is in your house by himself and has time to be going through your stuff...

Hopefully he isn't - but hopefully you have got somewhere safe that you could put everything important (even just with a friend until this all blows over). And of course physically important stuff too - you'd all probably notice the tv or computer if it disappeared but stuff from your jewellery box might take some time. And again if you have stuff that's sentimental to you even if it's not worth anything to sell - worth him taking if he wants to cause you grief. At the end of the day you can get a new tv relatively easily - granny's engagement ring or your dad's favourite book from when he was a child - impossible.

Oh and please go and ask your questions on the legal board on MN - it's fab and you can at least start getting some answers to questions tonight!
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_matters

mammadiggingdeep Tue 17-Sep-13 21:28:55

Thank you.........I did think about moving kids passports and birth certificates actually. I will take th to work with me tomorrow.

Thanks for the link.....will post now.

Thank you everybody. Mn has got me through a lot these past 7 months......thank goodness for a bunch of strangers on the Internet smile xx

Lweji Portugal Tue 17-Sep-13 23:02:40

Perhaps it's best if you don't go to work, and take care of the locks and so on.

Make sure he doesn't know about your plans.

Does he know about MN?

mammadiggingdeep Tue 17-Sep-13 23:11:54

No, doesn't know bout MN....he barely knew/acknowledged I breathed before we split...let alone what actually did with my time.....

The thought about work had crossed my mind actually....will just be stressing all day so may as well get it dealt with and then get in ASAP. My friends, friends partner is a lock smith....said just to give him a call when he's needed.

Lweji Portugal Tue 17-Sep-13 23:20:29

Fingers crossed then.

Stay cool.

BIWI Cote D'Ivoire Wed 18-Sep-13 09:22:59

Don't change the locks!

read this

Unless legal advice has changed, (and I'm not a lawyer/legal expert!), you would be in the wrong. If he came home and found you had done this, he would be within his rights to insist that you let him in. If he were to call the police, presumably they would have to help him rather than you, which is not what you want!

You could, though, be in the house, and put the chain on/bolt the doors and stop him coming in that way - on the basis that he is supposed to have left.

I would keep working on his family to help you in this regard.

mammadiggingdeep Wed 18-Sep-13 09:29:25

Yes bwiw...have decided that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to change the locks only if he doesn't go and things become ridiculous. Still going to see solicitor and discuss occupation order.
Thanks guys xx

SweetSeraphim Wed 18-Sep-13 21:59:34

How are you today?

mammadiggingdeep Wed 18-Sep-13 22:43:42

Hey sweet.... Am ok thanks.....hating this situation but digging deep!! Am meeting solicitor tomorrow. I'm getting in later than him from work at mo so he was in again tonight. My dds are loving having him here, selfish arse doesn't realise it's all got to reversed again when he goes. It took her weeks at the beginning to stop asking when daddy was coming home. She asked this morning "daddy why are u here on a pre school day?".....she knows he's not usually there. Confused 3 year old....fantastic!

SweetSeraphim Wed 18-Sep-13 22:45:45

Stupid selfish arsehole angry

Really will be thinking of you tomorrow, lots of luck thanks

mammadiggingdeep Wed 18-Sep-13 22:48:57

Thanks sweet. Xx

cronullansw Thu 19-Sep-13 00:42:22

As ever, there are two sides to every story - go on MNers, criticise me as much as you like, but consider this.....

He's not stopped paying half the mortgage, he's not violent, he's fixing the place up, there's no court orders for whatever reason saying he can't live there, so legally, he's entitled to live there.

So why shouldn't he? Just cos OP doesn't like him any more doesn't stand up in a court.

I'm completely sure it's not pleasant at all, but I honestly don't see how he can be forced to move out, and changing the locks would simply deprive him of his rightful access, not a smart move for OP.

perfectstorm Thu 19-Sep-13 01:29:25

Well cronulla, if you really do hail from and reside in Cronulla, NSW, then you know even less about English marital and property law than the average layperson. On account of how you're in a totally different jurisdiction. So maybe you might want to consider your own wholesale ignorance before offering legal advice?

Fairenuff Thu 19-Sep-13 08:13:32

It certainly does stand up in court.

BIWI Cote D'Ivoire Thu 19-Sep-13 08:28:17

See, cronullansw, the OP and her partner are separated. Therefore he should not be letting himself back into the house.

Obviously there are two sides to every story, but this bit is clear.

Why should the OP have to put up with someone who is evidently abusive to her?

mammadiggingdeep Thu 19-Sep-13 08:56:01

And more to the point, why should my 3 year old dd now have to forget that daddy lives somewhere else....get used to playing With him every morning before pre school and having daddy read bedtime stories and then in another 6 months have to start the whole sad grieving process again. Have you ever watched your small child pine for their daddy? Well if not pipe down unless you have anything better to say than "there's two sides to every story". No shit Sherlock. I have just dropped her to pre school with her asking "will daddy be in today when I get home?". She is confused. I'm not in the right frame of mind to read half baked comments from people playing devils advocate.

BIWI Cote D'Ivoire Thu 19-Sep-13 08:59:56

Well said, mamma!

Orchidlady Thu 19-Sep-13 09:49:54

mamma what horrible situation, your poor you and poor dc. This happened to me many years ago and we was phsically abusive. He moved himself back in whilst I was at work, Worst part mortgage was in my name and he never contributed I was still unable to get the bastard out. Unfortunately the police said they could not remove him as his name was on an electricity bill wtf! I had to rent somewhere else whilst trying to sell, as I was scared for my life, there was also a record of his violence. This was some time ago so I truely hope the law has changed. Hope you are sorting things out.

cronullansw Thu 19-Sep-13 10:02:25

Amused face smile

Sorry Perfectstorm, I'm not from Cronulla, although I do live there now, so take your criticism back please, as these two are, legally, not separated. No legal action ending their relationship has taken place.

Get this right, his behaviour might well appear to some here to be in the wrong, but a court wouldn't see it like that at all, all they will see is - is the property jointly owned, does the relationship still exist as a legal entity.

Read orchidlady's comments, this poor lady's partner wasn't even paying his share of the bills and ''couldn't get him out.''

Lweji Portugal Thu 19-Sep-13 10:13:28

The fact that he moved out to live elsewhere, including for several months, means that they are separated.

Presumably the OP informed the relevant authorities, for council tax, benefits, work for tax purposes, etc. (if not, why not???)

The details and legalities should (and presumably will) be worked out by the OP today.

Personally I don't think it's healthy to have separated partners in the same house, let alone with children who pick up even more on tense moods.

Orchidlady Thu 19-Sep-13 10:25:31

lwe morally you are right this is not healthy. But legally not sure. I am only talking from experience, I am hoping the laws have changed on these things. My life was in danger, the police knew he was violent and and dangerous but still nothing could be done.

Lweji Portugal Thu 19-Sep-13 10:32:15

But the thing here is that he initially moved out and for several months.

I wouldn't be saying the same if he had been staying all along.

Worst case scenario, the OP should move out with the children.

Orchidlady Thu 19-Sep-13 10:46:50

Bastard I am talking about moved out, handed me the keys. but not before getting another set cut. And whilst I was at work some months months later called me out the blue and said "guess where I am" it was chilling. The police came with me into the house but were powerless. I would imagine things are better now, but as OP x's name is on the mortgage and has has been doing up the house probably won't help. I agree he sounds like a horrible selfish fucker with no regard for OP or his own kids but the law is an ass.

mammadiggingdeep Thu 19-Sep-13 11:00:20

Cronullan.......amused face???? How dare you get amusement from a situation which is causing me distress. I asked for advice. You may think you've given it but your tone is not sympathetic at all. I don't understand posters like you.

Thank you got sharing your experience- I can vieve thAt the police didn't act. Yes, I have evidence via tax credits and bills. I'm worried that I'm going to lose my childcare tax credits as he's living there now. It's worth 1200 a month to me!!!! I live in London do childcare for 2 little ones is through the roof.

Lweji Portugal Thu 19-Sep-13 11:00:23

That's the thing, the police can't do anything.
Only the courts.

But that works in reverse too.

NumTumDeDum Thu 19-Sep-13 11:01:14

You should post in Legal, there are a number of practising family solicitors who frequent the board. Essentially though, you should not change the locks as he is a joint owner and legally has a right of entry. Given the history however you can apply to limit that right by applying for an occupation order under The Family Law Act 1996. You may be entitled to legal aid if there is evidence of domestic violence. If there is evidence of dv then you can also take advice on whether or not to apply for a non molestation order at the same time. These are short term solutions designed to give you time to sort out the longer term solution such as obtaining an order for sale of the property for example.

Lweji Portugal Thu 19-Sep-13 11:02:49

That's why you need to either be a bitch and find a way of changing the locks (is he going to work? Just skip work, for one day or arrive late, really).
Or make sure you cover your bases legally, as he's not (presumably) contributing towards child care, family finances, etc.

Seriously, I'd be taking days off to sort this asap.

cestlavielife Thu 19-Sep-13 11:06:57

indeed. he did move out but has been payig mortgage and op willingly gave him a key to come in and renovate.

the law TOLATA says both partners own the property equally (unless something has been set out at land registry confirming differeing shares)

occupation order? only likely if he hasbeen physically abusive etc. op is relying on him agreeing to move out - which he did but clearly ash changed his mind...

op can apply to court under tolata to sell the perpty an court will decide who gets what share. will be fifty fifty unless either party shows proof evidence it shoudl be more.

plus childrens act can be applied eg if dc live with op and she needs some of his share to house the children, held fr teh children and would need to be returned to the x when kids reach 18 or "finish full time education" .

tolata/childrens act application takes time. it's long and messy. i am still battling as have court order for sale for joint owned property which ex lives in (i moved out six years ago with dc and rent!) but ex refusing to move out so i need to spend more £££ on eviction - he has some spurious plan to get some money from his relatives and buy me out but providing no evidence.

op can appeal to x better nature and sit with a mediator /lawyer and agree who lives where and who pays what in short and medium and long term.

but cronulla is right. in the absence of phsycal abuse the law is not on op's side in kicking him out. and why should he pay mortage on place he isnt living in? to provide for children? yes maybe

(were she to change locks he could apply to court for access to the property)

cestlavielife Thu 19-Sep-13 11:09:13

"he's not (presumably) contributing towards child care, family finances, etc"

if he is paying half the mortgage for op and dc to live in the property then yes he is effectively contributing.

op you really need to speak to a solicitor and get things clear as to what legally you need to do here

you ned to send him a claer message legally you want to sort this out.

Orchidlady Thu 19-Sep-13 11:15:55

posting in legal sounds a good idea. OP needs proper advise I think some people are being too emotional and confusing what "mamm* x should do morally with his legal right to live there.Op I really hope you can reason with him, you said his mum was on side would be possible for her to get her son to see that he is upsetting her Grand children. Did the OW kick him out or something?

Orchidlady Thu 19-Sep-13 11:16:42

Wise words cest as always smile

MoominsYonisAreScary Thu 19-Sep-13 11:18:38

What sort of man would want to confuse his child like that? Sorry no advice but he sounds like a real arse

Orchidlady Thu 19-Sep-13 11:41:02

A selfish one moomins

mammadiggingdeep Thu 19-Sep-13 12:32:44

Have posted in legal...off to the solicitor at 4pm. Gulp.

mammadiggingdeep Thu 19-Sep-13 12:38:34

Also going to speak to his mum today again....

mammadiggingdeep Thu 19-Sep-13 12:39:51

Orchidlady, no he wasn't at other woman's. was with his dad. I think he's returned because he genuinely misses the dc and I think he's hoping I'll slip back into a relationship with him!!

Orchidlady Thu 19-Sep-13 12:42:22

Good luck mamma I am glad you are taking the legal route rather than listening to people on here about locking him out. Sadly it looks like he has as much right to live there as you. Hope he comes to his senses and his mum and brother can help him do the right thing.. Please come back and let us know how it goes. Fingers crossed for you smile

Orchidlady Thu 19-Sep-13 12:44:12

Crossed posts mamma I guess he should have thought about all that before cheating. What an ass!

mammadiggingdeep Thu 19-Sep-13 14:13:42

Exactly orchid....all of this is the fall out of a stupid choice on his behalf......this is the consequence of his pathetic actions,

mammadiggingdeep Thu 19-Sep-13 14:14:13

Thanks for the good wishes too x

TheSilverySoothsayer Thu 19-Sep-13 14:26:15

Keep things separate financially. It is possible to live under same roof but not be together as regards Tax Credits. Get maintenance.

I am not a lawyer, but hope your sol visit will confirm this. All the best. I lived under same roof while divorcing, and then while getting to financial settlement. Twas not nice. [hugs]

Noregrets78 Thu 19-Sep-13 17:41:14

Good luck OP I agree with everyone who has said you need legal advice. It is certainly possible to still claim tax credits, but you will need to be careful. You may be living under the same roof, but not as partners. A separation agreement would help your case, but the fact that you are indeed separated - not sharing a bed, food, finances should be enough. You may be in a better position if you can pay the mortgage yourself, his contribution should be child maintenance instead.

My experience is that an occupation order is regarded as a draconian measure by the courts, and only granted where there has been physical violence. If he won't see reason your only option might be to rent somewhere else (in which case he should pay the mortgage). If he knew that was the alternative, would that help his decision?

Awful for you all, I hope the solicitor was constructive and hasn't depressed you!

mammadiggingdeep Thu 19-Sep-13 18:08:37

Quick update.....extremely depressing sad

As we thought, no to the lock change. She kind of dismissed idea of keep locking him out, she said would just distress myself really- waiting hot the knocks/ dealing with angry aftermath etc.

She also said doesn't sound like occupation prefer would be successful- not DV, no evidence if emotional abuse etc.

She recommended a family mediation service with a view to a seperation agreement, outlining financial, housing plans etc. as he has agreed to sell but just not to me she said quickest exit would be to push for sale as part of separation agreement.

That's the bones of what she said.
Obviously yes, I have option of moving out to rented. Would I still get help with rent if I own a property though? Don't think I could afford whole rent.

So after half an hour with a sol I'm not thatuchpre enlightened and still not free of the twunt.....

TimidLivid Thu 19-Sep-13 18:57:51

oh that is bad news I guess selling is the only way to rid yourself of his being there

mammadiggingdeep Thu 19-Sep-13 19:21:40

I locked the door tonight, got in the bath and turned the music up. 4 missed calls and 4 texts. Whoops. Even for tonight it's a relief. Why should his wishes be met but not mine? I've explained it will make me unhappy and confuse the dc. He railroaded and stayed regardless. Not tonight he's not. Juvenile maybe but I feel better

BIWI Cote D'Ivoire Thu 19-Sep-13 20:32:40

Good! It's not like he doesn't have anywhere to go. You really need, in the situation, to call on his family to add the pressure on to him.

mineofuselessinformation Thu 19-Sep-13 20:34:34

Had to laugh at the 'oops'. Good for you.

ponygirlcurtis Thu 19-Sep-13 20:47:06

mama just posting quickly re rent/housing benefit situation. I left my abusive husband and rented a place. Because I wasn't living in the house, I was able to claim housing benefit (although they noted it on my file that I owned a property). However, once my house was sold as part of the separation agreement, that made me ineligible as my share of the proceeds put me over the savings limit for HB. So although the rent is expensive I got over a year of having help with it, and I have been able to put some of the weekly amount away to offset me still being able to stay here for a while yet, now that I'm paying it myself.

HTH. Good luck.

peppapigmustdie Thu 19-Sep-13 20:49:59

So sorry the Solicitor had bad news for you, it does seem crazy that you can be forced to live with someone against your will and also be at risk of losing your Tax Credits when you are clearly not in a relationship with him.
You have tonight alone at least but I am so cross on your behalf.
I wish I had some answers for you but sadly I don't.
Sending good luck vibes your way.

peppapigmustdie Thu 19-Sep-13 20:51:15

ponygirl that sounds positive.

mammadiggingdeep Thu 19-Sep-13 20:54:01

Thanks all. Thanks for sharing pony girl....that's good to know. Sounds like you're onwards and upwards. I will be just a slight hiccup!!
X

Pickturethis Thu 19-Sep-13 20:58:48

I'd suggest trying to get this sorted ASAP.

What if he starts locking you out?

Somehow you're going to have to communicate with him.

I can't see him living somewhere else and paying half a mortgage for 15 years on a house he doesn't live in.

Is he trying to force the issue of finances?

perfectstorm Thu 19-Sep-13 21:30:11

Sorry Perfectstorm, I'm not from Cronulla, although I do live there now, so take your criticism back please, as these two are, legally, not separated. No legal action ending their relationship has taken place.

Ah, I stand corrected - you clearly have superior legal knowledge to myself. I only have a law degree from Cambridge and a masters by research - a comparative study of the law of NSW and England and Wales pertaining to cohabitational breakdown, as it happens.

You know fuck all about the legal situation here, as do we all, which is why I've made no comment on the legal situation other than to say that the OP needs to rely on her solicitor. You chose to post to make digs and cause someone in a horrible position distress. As you always seem to do.

I have never once seen you post to help anyone on here. Every single post I have ever seen from you is seemingly aimed at hurting or distressing or annoying a woman in a vulnerable situations. I'm not a therapist or psychologist, so I won't presume to theorise as to why that is or how much you appear to be projecting some past experience of your own, and seeking revenge via some totally unrelated third parties. But I do think some professional help might be advantageous to you, because your apparent desperation to attract female attention at any cost - no matter how negative - doesn't really seem especially healthy. We forget your nonsense as soon as we close the browser. You live in that mind. It doesn't, from your posts, seem a very happy place to reside.

Do feel free to post the usual nonsense, but you'll have to forgive my not responding. I'm afraid I don't regard you as worth the effort.

perfectstorm Thu 19-Sep-13 21:33:35

OP, well done on locking the doors and keeping him out. It's terrible that he has so little regard for the welfare of your little ones. My own son worships his father and I can only imagine how hard the past 6 months were at the start - to force her to go through the whole process again is downright cruel.

Have you contacted estate agents to get some valuations? If he sees you're serious and not about to fall back into a relationship with him then perhaps he'll stop pushing his luck. And making an appointment for mediation as soon as possible sounds a good idea, too.

Ignore Cronulla. I'm pretty confident everyone else does - and I don't mean on Mumsnet, either. wink

SweetSeraphim Thu 19-Sep-13 22:28:52

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

cronullansw Thu 19-Sep-13 23:07:21

So............

It's like I said. And got called a cunt for, Thanks Sweet.

Interesting that your strongest term of abuse is the slang name of the female sex organ. Hmm, what would Freud say?

Mamma - my apologies, the 'amused face' wasn't for your situation, I hope you can resolve it without and problems, but was for the completely incorrect statements being made about me.

mammadiggingdeep Fri 20-Sep-13 06:54:05

But it's not about you cron. Rather bad form to make a thread about yourself really.

Thanks all for your replies....will post later xx

Lweji Portugal Fri 20-Sep-13 06:59:50

Of course the solicitor wouldn't go down the changing locks route.
That's why I'd have done it and let him go to court over it.

Personally, locking inside is only likely to enrage the man and you'll have to let him in again...
And I suspect he's more likely now to stand his ground.

Sorry, but I still think you'd have been better off taking drastic measures the very first time he stayed, before he spent a few nights back in.
At worst you'd have to let him in again anyway. At best you'd have more time without him in.
Oh, well.

Fingers crossed you can move out or get him to move back out, or that he's not too bad to live with.

I hope life is manageable with him in. Or

Orchidlady Fri 20-Sep-13 08:50:21

morning mamma oh dear about the solicitor no surprises there though. I think you really need to try and reason with him, hopefully his family will help. I would making appointments with Estate agents right now and if you can not handle living in the same place as him then rent somewhere else until the sale goes though. Sorry but he is just entitled to live there and it could get so nasty, I hope he sees reason for his kids sake if nothing else. He is being totally pathetic right now.

SweetSeraphim Fri 20-Sep-13 09:58:43

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

TalkativeJim Fri 20-Sep-13 10:16:17

Cron, an ellipsis only has three 'dots' -

So...

Like that.

I thought you'd like to know, as bad grammar always makes patronising know-it-all posts lose most if not all of their' impact'.

TalkativeJim Fri 20-Sep-13 10:22:36

* their 'impact'

Hahahaha! Posted too soon...

OP - have you spoken to his family again yet?

I think what I would start to do is make noises about taking action - of the kind he will not like. Firstly, the disruption to your children. How close by do you work? I would be airing a few well-chosen sentences on how horrible and confusing this is for your children, and how his lack of respect for your separated situation makes you think that the best way to proceed might be for you to move out some distance away. He might really not like that, and his parents presumably would also not like that and might bring more pressure to bear. He would like it even less if you suggested that enough distance to make contact only workable at specific pre-agreed times might now be the only way forward.

And that naturally as soon as you were gone you would be forcing a sale asap. Get the valuers in now in fact.

Good luck.

Orchidlady Fri 20-Sep-13 11:55:56

Goodness you lot really have it in for cron Is there some history I am not aware of because she was pretty much saying what I said but I did not get a barrage of abuse smile

AmyMumsnet France (MNHQ) Fri 20-Sep-13 11:56:28

Hi everyone,
Thanks for all your reports.
Just a reminder of our talk guidelines.
Generally we are okay with posts which say "You sound like a XXX" or "You are coming across as a XXX".
However, saying someone "behaves like a cunt" is a fairly obvious attempt to try and get around our rules regarding personal attacks.

Hope you see where we're coming from on this.

BIWI Cote D'Ivoire Fri 20-Sep-13 12:19:52

cron is a man, I think, Orchidlady, and his posts here have not exactly been supportive of the OP and the situation she finds herself in.

TheSilverySoothsayer Fri 20-Sep-13 14:35:05

Whereas your post of 08.20.21 gave unpalatable but necessary info/advice in a supportive way, orchidlady

SweetSeraphim Fri 20-Sep-13 16:25:11

Sorry blush

mammadiggingdeep Fri 20-Sep-13 16:44:45

Haha.... Sweet dropped the c bomb smile

SweetSeraphim Fri 20-Sep-13 16:51:46

grin

To be fair, it is a word that I use often in real life, I wasn't just being insulting for the sake of it smile

I did offer my sympathies to you in that post as well, but obvs it's been deleted!

mammadiggingdeep Fri 20-Sep-13 16:56:19

Haha....sometimes only the c word will do! Thanks fit the sympathy.... You gave me a laugh too...the best tonic smile x

MaBumble Fri 20-Sep-13 17:00:32

Good luck Mamma, I hope things are heading the right way for you.

On a side issue, I'd never call anyone a cunt. As they are deep, warm and useful.

I tend to use the phrase dickwad smile

mammadiggingdeep Fri 20-Sep-13 17:09:15

Thank you!! Another laugh smile

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