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is it wrong for me to go out?

(59 Posts)
ladypippins Mon 09-Sep-13 11:42:30

My h doesn't like it when I go out and "expect" him to take care if our son "you wanted him". I don't go out often, less than a handful a year including Christmas do's.

DS gets upset if I go home and then go out, can be a bit clingy (he's at nursery full time) but he seems to be okay if I don't go home first. Although sometimes bed time is tricky as I am the only one to go through the bedtime routine "he doesn't want me".

I need to socialise, just once in a while without feeling guilty. I want to go to a team do next month and am worried about telling H. I think he will say no but I want to stay firm. Given DS sometimes gets upset - is it reasonable for me to go out?

TheGirlFromIpanema Mon 09-Sep-13 11:43:44

Yes, of course its reasonable.

Does he get to go out without drama?

PinkPlum Mon 09-Sep-13 11:46:17

Yes of course you should go out. Your ds may get upset without you there but it is up to his other parent to step up and do the job that you do all the time. At least once in a while. You shouldn't have to ask permission or feel guilty about it. Your ds will get used to being put to bed by his father and that is a good thing, for both of you. You are entitled to a bit of independence

BeCool Mon 09-Sep-13 11:57:04

"I think he will say no"
Are you asking your H for permission to go out? And he can say 'no'?

Does he rule/try to rule other areas of your life?

You are a grown adult - you don't need permission to go out. What you want is not unreasonable.

So does he help at all as 'you wanted the baby'???
Does he do any hands on child care at all?
Really sorry but I can see sooooo many red flags here, it's a bit alarming.
Is he caring and loving towards you at all?
Do you live near family and friends?
Sorry for all the questions but this just doesn't sit well with me.

Your H needs to step up to the plate, start taking a share of bedtimes to get DS used to him putting him to bed. My ExH was a bit like this, but less overt about it, so I basically started insisting that he take a few bathtimes and bedtimes a week.

DS is his child too! He sounds an arse. Is he controlling in other ways?

Madlizzy Mon 09-Sep-13 12:18:56

You're an adult who doesn't need permission to go out. He's being a controlling arseholian dictator.

Squitten Mon 09-Sep-13 12:19:27

I'm not surprised your son gets upset when you're not there - his father soounds like he has no interest in him at all.

It is perfectly reasonable to go out on your own. But that really is a side issue to how big of a twat your husband sounds.

pictish Mon 09-Sep-13 12:20:24

How terrible! Your dh's attitude is wrong. Of course you must go out.
I find his "you wanted him" stance deeply sad and desolate.

Why are you with him?

LovesBeingOnHoliday Mon 09-Sep-13 12:25:17

No it's not

Lweji Mon 09-Sep-13 12:30:12

If your OH is not prepared to parent, then consider whether you want to be with him.

If he's busy when you want to go out, you can sort out a babysitter.

I suspect your baby doesn't want him because he never does bedtimes.

Lovingfreedom Mon 09-Sep-13 12:37:08

No it's not wrong to go out. You deserve it. Your husband sounds very cruel. Do you have someone in RL who you trust who you can talk to about your experiences and relationship? keep posting here for support too.

ThePinkOcelot Mon 09-Sep-13 12:41:30

Don't ask him, just tell him you are going out. You are an adult and don't need his permission. Does he ask you when he wants to go out? I think you need serious words op.

pictish Mon 09-Sep-13 12:52:59

Yes he does sound cruel. I agree.

Thurlow Mon 09-Sep-13 12:57:58

Of course it's not wrong. And you shouldn't have to ask for permission, that is neither right nor healthy. The only reason you should ask anything is to check if your DH already has any plans that night.

Your son has two parents. Both should know how to do everything with him, and both should be willing to do everything with him.

Is there anything else your DH won't let you do?

ladypippins Mon 09-Sep-13 13:30:27

Thanks all. I know I should be able to go out but wasn't sure about the impact on ds.

There are many other issues and I think this will be just another one of them where I'm 'unreasonable'. He thinks it wrong that I want to drive 1.5hrs to see my parents ("you saw them 3months ago!") and when I have been out after a couple of hours he texts wanting to know when Iam leaving, he says its too keep me safe or because I have work next day but it results in me being anxious and clock watching.

The last time I went on a works do (January) I said I'd be home at 7.30pm. I got back at 7.50 - all he said was "you're late. I hope it was worth it it."

So thanks, it helps to know that I AM normal!!

SaskiaRembrandtVampireHunter Mon 09-Sep-13 13:47:00

Of course you're normal! Your h on the hand, not so much.

extracrunchy Mon 09-Sep-13 13:49:19

Your DH sounds borderline abusive to be honest...

BitOutOfPractice Mon 09-Sep-13 13:53:37

Borderline? I think he sounds like a vile controlling bully and it would break my heart if the father of my children spoke like that about them

DisgraceToTheYChromosome Mon 09-Sep-13 14:14:06

A bloke writes: the man's a miserable controlling twat. If he thinks 3 monthly visits to your parents is excessive, he's exhibiting a massive red flag. That's how it starts, by isolating you from family.

He was normal until DS arrived, wasn't he?

pictish Mon 09-Sep-13 15:25:30

"you're late...I hope it was worth it"

shock

This guy's a nightmare!

LondonNinja Mon 09-Sep-13 15:30:07

Goodness. Your husband has conditioned you into accepting so much. He's abusive.

Red flags galore.

ladypippins Mon 09-Sep-13 16:17:40

Before ds was born he was okay, but yes there were red flags then too. We've been together for half m life so I guess I have lost perspective of what's normal. Situation became worse and some physical abuse (due to my accidental damage of the house he'd just decorated) after ds was born.

Thurlow Mon 09-Sep-13 16:36:02

I don't know exactly what to say but... none of this is good. In any way.

Can I ask the usual question - what do you feel you get out of your relationship? What does your husband give, or do?

haverer Mon 09-Sep-13 16:45:59

Oh dear. He is abusive and controlling. What happened when you accidentally damaged something? The fact that you're asking if its ok to do something entirely reasonable is the worst bit for me. How dare he control you to such an extent. Call women's aid. They will be able to help. Can you talk to your family/anyone else in real life about what's happening?

Lovingfreedom Mon 09-Sep-13 18:00:18

Well done for starting to seek advice. Time to start planning an exit? He's bad news.

Pollydon Mon 09-Sep-13 18:35:14

Op, are you afraid of him ?

tribpot Mon 09-Sep-13 18:41:57

The abuse was not due to your damage of the house. It was due to his wish to punish and control you.

Since you appear to be the only parent who wanted your ds I assume you must have coerced your DH into it? Or is that, in fact, bollocks?

Very sensible not to go home before the night out if it will make it easier for your ds.

haverer Wed 11-Sep-13 18:22:36

How are things, ladypippins?

LoisPuddingLane Wed 11-Sep-13 19:09:50

I have lost perspective of what's normal

I'm afraid you have. This ISN'T NORMAL IN ANY WAY.

PopiusTartius Wed 11-Sep-13 19:30:43

Oh, OP. This isn't normal. And this doesn't have to be the rest of your life, either.

Please consider leaving.

gintastic Wed 11-Sep-13 19:38:59

He got physical when you accidentally damaged the house? That's not normal at all, and neither is any of the rest of it. For the record, I put my shoulder through a wall that DH had just replastered and painted. So he did it again, no fuss made. That is normal - your OH is being abusive.

OctopusPete8 Wed 11-Sep-13 20:02:48

'you wanted him'

that is disgusting, does he do anything for your son?

OctopusPete8 Wed 11-Sep-13 20:02:48

'you wanted him'

that is disgusting, does he do anything for your son?

OctopusPete8 Wed 11-Sep-13 20:02:48

'you wanted him'

that is disgusting, does he do anything for your son?

SirSugar Wed 11-Sep-13 20:13:54

'Why Does he do That?' - Lundy Bancroft; You will find your H in there.

something2say Wed 11-Sep-13 20:22:34

This is social isolation with a bit of manipulation using the child as a tool thrown in...

Either
A. Go out and teach him that will continue to go out. Dress, sort your child out, do not ask or apologise, do not respond to rubbish texts on your night out.
B. leave him as this may be the tip of the iceberg, and then start going out more.

X

ladypippins Wed 11-Sep-13 22:22:39

I didn't coerce him to having a baby, he knew I always wanted one and I always got told, when we have more money, better house etc. I had said if he didn't want one he needed to tell me and I would have to leave. He never said he didn't and I told him when I was actively trying as he said we would start a family when I got to a certain age and I got there!

I told him tonight that I was going on a works do. He asked if I had to go (I said i wanted to socialise and it was good for my prospects to get to know others better). He asked where it was and what time it finished and then said it wasn't fair on ds as he wanted me at night. And in any case, Christmas was 3 months away so I'd be wanting to go out then.

I suggested that he start doing the night time routine with me, he said that ds doesn't want him and that when he gets back from nursery he wants me and is sometimes interested in him as well. That when I am late back he can coax him and say I would be back soon but he always asks for me. He went on to say that he doesn't go out, I said I wouldn't stop him. His response is that you can't socialise when you have kids; it would be different if just the two of us, but that he would be willing to have him for an afternoon at the weekend.

We spend all weekend together and in addition ds and h will spend time doing little jobs in the garden. H works for himself and has recently started having ds for 1 day a week.

When I did make arrangements, before ds I would be told that I wasn't pulling my weight and ended up cancelling or clock watching.

The thing is, his response, saying he would have D's St the weekend seems reasonable to me - or are my expectations lower than others?

AnyFucker Wed 11-Sep-13 22:25:07

Is your husband the boss of you ? Who the fuck does he think he is, the jumped up little Hitler.

"Borderline" abusive ?

No, more like fully abusive.

CookieDoughKid Wed 11-Sep-13 22:37:36

He sounds controlling and insecure. Does he not have a life too? I guess not. Op, there are options, from putting your foot down and just going out to getting a babysitter in. But he sounds antisocial. You can be parents and have a life. Happy parents means happier kids!!

ladypippins Thu 12-Sep-13 07:09:02

Yes, antisocial. Wouldn't even come to my sisters wedding reception - though that was mostly because he doesn't want to mix my family (who are lovely people but not his type).

I am going to persist with this. I have also written an 'Agreement' from the Verbally Abusive Relationship. If he doesn't understand his unreasonableness when I make my self clear in writing (and not tongue tied) then nothing will.sad

Squitten Thu 12-Sep-13 07:20:39

What a surprise - he causes trouble with your family too. He has no life and he doesn't want you to have one either.

Time to stop trying to discuss it all so reasonably and make some changes. Tell him to get on board and start making an effort with his child or he might as well not be there. At least as a part-time carer he would be forced to deal with him alone!

SirSugar Thu 12-Sep-13 07:36:07

I didn't go out socially for seven years; the first time I did for a meal celebrating my birthday with three girlfriends, my H picked a fight just before I left then told me to 'just go', waving his hand in the direction of the door.

I was a nervous wreak the entire evening.

My H was abusive

tribpot Thu 12-Sep-13 07:48:59

but that he would be willing to have him for an afternoon at the weekend.

And this, to be clear, is the child's father? Quite unbelievable. It is his job to look after his ds 100% of the time. It is also your job to look after your ds 100% of the time. Which means both can negotiate a lower overall percentage as it doesn't require both of you all the time. But he seems to be opening the negotiations with him at 0 and you at 100.

Thurlow Thu 12-Sep-13 07:51:12

It's one thing if he is happy not to have friends and socialise, but it's another thing entirely to stop you going too, and to not see your family because of it.

It is abusive, whether he is doing it deliberately or subconsciously.

What would happen if you just told him you were going on this work night out and stayed out till 10?

pictish Thu 12-Sep-13 08:35:21

Yes your expectations are low. The rest of us do what we like, when we like, with who we like, with the blessing of our spouses.

Morgause Thu 12-Sep-13 08:48:21

He sounds awful lady. Put your foot down and get a life for yourself.

OhDearNigel Thu 12-Sep-13 09:00:44

sad
My DH would wish me a nice evening and ask me if I had enough money. It wouldn't cross his mind to stop me going out.
I think you know now that this is not anywhere near normal.

Lavenderhoney Thu 12-Sep-13 09:02:07

He sounds awful tbhsad

You sound very controlled and under his thumb. Does he just make sarky comments or does he get aggressive with you? Or does he punish you by being silent and not allowing you out? What do your friends say?

You can see your parents whenever you like anyway. He has no right to stop you. Can you go and stay with them overnight and tell them what he is like? I suspect they know already though. What excuses do you give?

My dh encourages me to go out. He works evenings so when he is at home i like to be with him, but he says I must have time with friends. And my dc do like me at bedtime as he is normally working, but dh just works round it. I believe they get ready for bed and watch tv, but its his call.

I said once I'd be back about 11.30 and wobbled home at 1.30 instead. I had sent a text to say i would be much later home. He was asleep, and the next day was fine with it, getting me a paracetamol and asking if I'd had a good time.

So, what I have just written is normal IMO. Are you married?

ladypippins,

re your comment:-
"I am going to persist with this. I have also written an 'Agreement' from the Verbally Abusive Relationship. If he doesn't understand his unreasonableness when I make my self clear in writing (and not tongue
tied) then nothing will"

Why persist with this at all?. Doing that will ultimately get you nowhere and just prolongs your own agonies. He will likely totally dismiss or ignore any "agreement" you give him and perhaps even tear it up in front of you.

It would be far more productive instead to further seek the help of your family and Womens Aid along with planning your exit. These men do not change.

Persist!
There is nothing to persist with. You are going. End of conversation.
If he won't take care of DS then you will get a babysitter.
This is full on abusive behaviour from your OH and as others have advised, please call Womens Aid and get some support from them.
It has already been physical and this usually always happens during pregnancy or after the birth.
This WILL get worse.
You really do need to get away from him.
Could you arrange to visit your parents for the weekend and get away for a bit?
You should NOT be living like this. IT IS NOT NORMAL!!!
If he checks the phone bills etc.. the Womens Aid call will not appear on it so you do not need to worry about that.
Their phone number is 0808 2000 247. They are very busy so just keep trying.

ladypippins Thu 12-Sep-13 12:20:56

Lavenderhoney - he gets sarky and sulky.

Atillals - I've written the Agreement because I left 4months ago and went back after just a few days. He said that he didn't realise I was so unhappy (although I had said his reactions were unreasonable and he'd certainly seen me cry). Writing it down demonstrates I have told him and he stops any denial of not knowing from him.

It means I have tried my best and if I know that it will help me move on and struggle through the overwhelming feeling of loneliness and sadness for the end of my 18 year. These emotions, along with him saying he will change are why I returned.

Lavenderhoney Thu 12-Sep-13 12:37:24

So you left- and he begged you to come back, with promises of change i presume- and now its happening again. Is it worse?

You had the courage to leave before and had a plan- can you reinstate it and mean it this time? Did you it before and hope he would come to his senses?

Is it worth talking to your parents - if you confided in them before- and leaving again? For good this time?

You were brave before, op? Takes a lot of courage to leave but it can only get better.

Does he know you are on mn?

LoisPuddingLane Thu 12-Sep-13 12:42:05

If he didn't change after you left him, he's not going to change.

ladypippins Thu 12-Sep-13 12:56:18

He hasn't been physically aggressive but he has shouted and called me a couple of names. When I pulled him up on it he said he felt I was moving the goal posts; I suggested them that I write it down but he said I didn't need to (its actually been written for weeks but I haven't found the courage to issue it.

It's definitely better but clearly still not ideal. I organised a rental and the agreement expires in November.

He knows I make notes but isn't aware of mumsnet.

ladypippins Thu 12-Sep-13 13:01:20

Re: moving goalposts, he hasn't understood shouting was a problem.

LoisPuddingLane Thu 12-Sep-13 13:04:02

What does he mean by moving the goal posts?

YoniBottsBumgina Thu 12-Sep-13 13:10:56

Please make sure he does not find out about mumsnet!

You went back because he promised to change, but he hasn't, has he? sad

If the rental agreement expires in November does that mean you can go back before then?

Never make him aware of MN!.

These types all say that they are "sorry" and that they "promise to change". He has not fundamentally changed at all and any agreement to him means nothing. Staying with him only prolongs your own agonies.

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