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AIBU (think I probably already know the answer)

(152 Posts)
AuchAyethenoo Mon 09-Sep-13 11:19:32

I've just had THE most embarrassing moment in Morrisons. I'm stood watching the food scan and the amount getting increasingly higher on the till display, 5 people standing behind me. I've got £70 in my pocket.

Yep you guessed it £72.68 on the display, I have to ask the woman to stop scanning and take off the last couple of items. Mortified just about covers it. Other people tutting, the cashier had to call for help, the whole shebang.

How did I get in this position, you ask?

I'm a SAHM, my oh works. We get some CTC and I get child maintenance for my eldest. My oh has a good wage, yet I have to cover half of ALL the bills, mortgage etc. Buy the weekly shop, all of the children's travel and activities and all of the children's expenditure (clothes etc).

AIBU to be destroyed that I have to use my eldests money for essential like food instead of saving it for her, to be hurt that even though oh knows that since his promotion my CTC has reduced and I'm struggling?

I now have £8 to last me 9 days, it's £4/day to get my dd2 to nursery. Oh says if I need money I should ask him, but he acts in such a demeaning manner when I do, asking precisely how much, what it's for etc. Then 'comically' tries to stuff it down my bra.

Your OH is a cunt, sorry.

OHforDUCKScake Mon 09-Sep-13 11:21:22

Why arent you asking your OH for more inputL

VinegarDrinker Mon 09-Sep-13 11:22:10

Ignoring the glaring relationship issues for a minute, CB is paid for essentials, not to go into savings. So I wouldn't feel guilty about that for a second.

You are being abused. Sorry.

BlackholesAndRevelations Mon 09-Sep-13 11:24:14

Your oldest child's maintenance could go towards her food, why wouldn't it?

However I agree that your husband is a nob and why the hell do you pay half when it appears you have less coming in? How does he make it up to be equal?

microserf Mon 09-Sep-13 11:25:13

umm, another one here voting your oh is a complete twat of the highest order. this is financial abuse.

i do think cb is for essentials though so wouldn't feel bad about spending, not for a second.

SmiteYouWithThunderbolts Mon 09-Sep-13 11:25:17

Your OH is a shit to expect an equal split of the bills given that your income is substantially less than his.

TheVermiciousKnid Mon 09-Sep-13 11:26:25

Send your partner an invoice for childcare, cleaning etc. Exactly half of what a nanny, cleaner, housekeeper etc would cost.

What an arse.

lunar1 Mon 09-Sep-13 11:26:56

Write it all down all your income and all the expenditure. Let him see in black and white that it just doesn't add up.

There is a chance that he just doesn't realise how little you manage on. If that doesn't change anything then you will really have to think about leaving, you would probably be financially better off for a start.

bearleftmonkeyright Mon 09-Sep-13 11:27:48

The Morrisons thing has happened to me before. Forget that. The issue is your dh.

You husband is a tosser who is financially abusing you.

MisselthwaiteManor Mon 09-Sep-13 11:29:31

Stuffing it down your bra warrants a 'comical' punch in the nads. You should not have to live like that, have a serious chat with him and if he won't budge then consider your other options.

Pobblewhohasnotoes Mon 09-Sep-13 11:33:57

This is financial abuse.

What does your OH do with all his extra money? Why are you in this arrangement? It's terrible, what a tosser.

AuchAyethenoo Mon 09-Sep-13 11:37:39

We agreed before we bought the house that everything would be split evenly. Since then we have had two children and I gave up work due to a mental health issue.

His argument for carrying on the original agreement is that I should have thought about this possibility, apparently 'I moved the goal posts'.

FobblyWoof Mon 09-Sep-13 11:37:59

He pretends to stuff it down your bra? shock .

It was all sounding awful before you said that- it juat ramped it up to another level.

FrenchRuby Mon 09-Sep-13 11:40:43

Your OH sounds horrible sad

Pobblewhohasnotoes Mon 09-Sep-13 11:42:43

OP please read about financial abuse.

Yes things change within families but then you adjust to accommodate that. My DH contributes more than I do as I earn less now I'm part time and we have DS.

MrsDeVere Mon 09-Sep-13 11:42:51

He is taking the piss.

Things change.

When I first got with my OH we were both young and healthy.
A fuck lot has happened in the last 23 years.

By your OH's reckoning I should be saying to OH 'well I am sorry you have multiple sclerosis but we agreed when we met that we would do everything 50/50. Get off your lazy arse and do the hoovering'

Your OH needs to grow up.

What TheVermiciousKnid said.

FrenchRuby Mon 09-Sep-13 11:43:16

We agreed before we bought the house that everything would be split evenly. Since then we have had two children and I gave up work due to a mental health issue.

But if he earns more than you then that's hardly fair is it?
Dh works, I don't. He paid (before we moved into mils to save for a house) rent and bills and I paid for shopping. Now he puts what would have been out rent into savings and pays for car stuff and I pay for shopping still.

MisselthwaiteManor Mon 09-Sep-13 11:44:03

you moved the goalposts by having a mental health issue? hmm he is a monumental dickhead OP. What do you get out of this arrangement? What's keeping you there?

HomeIsWhereTheHeartIs Mon 09-Sep-13 11:44:11

Joint account... All of your money goes in, all of your bills/savings/expenses go out. Split anything that's left over as pocket money for each of you.
I couldn't live any other way. But decisions re employment/more kids etc have to be made together.

froubylou Mon 09-Sep-13 11:45:50

What a wanker.

Change the goalposts completely and leave.

Unless you massively overspend on silly things or have a problem managing money you should both have equal access to family income ie wages or tc etc.

LuisSuarezTeeth Mon 09-Sep-13 11:46:21

What??? Illness is moving goal posts?

Charge him for his share of the childcare. In fact no, get him to pay maintenance. You are a family not house sharers.

Grade A twunt.

PartyOrganisor Mon 09-Sep-13 11:47:14

He is moving the goal posts!!

I mean paying half the bills before having children is completely different to paying half the bills with 2 dcs...
And different again when the person you proclaim loving had to stop work due to ill health.

As for 'stuffing down your bra' shockshock.

I think you are right. You knew the answer before starting the thread. YANBU and he is a twat.

The question now is, is he able to change and review his completely out of line attitude?

SockQueen Mon 09-Sep-13 11:48:23

If he wants to be that tight, tell him he can buy his own food and cook it, you've only got money for you and the kids.

Fucking hell, he sounds like an abusive cunt! shock

Even if it were fair for you to split the costs 50/50, you're buying all the food, and paying for everything for the children! You're paying MORE than him, when he earns more!! Sounds like you would be financially far better off if you left him, with the added bonus of not being in relationship with someone who will treat you like that. I'm so cross on your behalf.

Talkinpeace Mon 09-Sep-13 11:49:43

"moved the goalposts"
Um no. You had kids. His kids.

Everything is shared equally is it?
Time to stop washing his clothes
Time to stop hoovering his side of the bedroom
Time to stop washing his plates
Time to stop buying the food HE eats, just buy for you and the kids
Time to stop buying him shaving foam
Time to treat him like the spoilt brat he is

I'd change the locks if DH treated me like yours does you.

PartyOrganisor Mon 09-Sep-13 11:50:15

Oh and I love how the fact he is p[aid more means he gets more money for himself.
But the fact that him being paid more means less money for you, means you have to suck it up and somehow manage with less money hmm

Has he though it could also means less clothes or food for his own children? Is he really happy with that?

And how on earth did you end up with paying all the children related stuff and the food and he doesn't??
Aren't some of these children his? Does he not feel he should somehow participate and ensure they are fed and clothed?

CocktailQueen Mon 09-Sep-13 11:51:27

'My oh has a good wage, yet I have to cover half of ALL the bills, mortgage etc.'

Am I reading this correctly - your dh works, you don't, yet he still expects you to pay half the household expenses?? What a twat. That's horrible and abusive.

Have a joint account. He puts his money in, your benefits go in too, then you each take out what you need. end of.

BTW, child benefit is meant to be spent on essentials for a child- clothes, food etc - not saved!

SalaciousBCrumb Mon 09-Sep-13 11:51:33

The two of you making (presumably) a joint decision to have two children and you to give up work to look after them, plus a mental health issue, is YOU is "moving the goalposts"?

He sounds grim. Grim grim grim.

WaitMonkey Mon 09-Sep-13 11:51:57

Your husband is awful. and I agree with everyone else, that you have major problems with him.

But, I don't know anyone who saves cb, everyone spends it on essentials.

SalaciousBCrumb Mon 09-Sep-13 11:53:43

Oh and by the way - the not having enough money thing happened to me in Sainsburys once. A lovely, lovely lady gave me a pound to make up what I couldn't find by grubbing around for pennies at the bottom of my handbag. I was so embarrassed and it was really kind of her. If I'm ever behind someone with the same issue I'm going to do the same.

PartyOrganisor Mon 09-Sep-13 11:55:31

Can I point out that , by the sounds of it,you would be in a better financial situation being on your own.

Less food bills, same costs from the dcs, more CTC as he wouldn't be there.
So what the hack is this guy bringing to the marriage?

Squitten Mon 09-Sep-13 11:56:36

How on EARTH can you be expected to pay for half of everything when you don't earn any money?! Either your DH is the most stupid person on the planet or he is intentionally putting you in an unworkable position (more likely).

Why on earth did you ever agree to such a ridiculous arrangement?! Tell him you demand a proper family budget based on incomings and outgoings. I really can't understand why you are doing this at ALL!

mistlethrush Mon 09-Sep-13 11:57:12

1) is he your DH or your DP?
2) I hope that its obvious that you're paying 1/2 the mortgate?
3) I hope he's soon going to be an ex.

Nanny0gg Mon 09-Sep-13 12:00:02

OP- Get this moved to Relationships. You will get lots of sound advice from women who have 'been there'.

You are being financially and, by the sound of it, emotionally abused. He's treating you like a whore.

Please don't put up with it.

missinglalaland Mon 09-Sep-13 12:07:05

Your other half is being unfair and unkind. You are a family not a bunch of individuals.

I think HomeIsWhereTheHeartIs is spot on.

I wish I had been behind you in the queue. I would have given you the cash!

Bamboobambino Mon 09-Sep-13 12:08:01

Personally I'd divorce him and take way more than half!

mistlethrush Mon 09-Sep-13 12:08:37

Bamboo - only possible if they're married...

Medal Mon 09-Sep-13 12:09:01

I can't understand how you can even afford to pay for half of everything without an income! This is ridiculous what he is expecting you to do.

Bamboobambino Mon 09-Sep-13 12:09:19

True

AngelsLieToKeepControl Mon 09-Sep-13 12:26:29

I am so angry on your behalf op, you are worth so much more than his fucking 'hilarious' stuffing money down your bra and making you go grovelling to him for cash.

Go onto the CSA website, see how much he would be due you if you weren't together and start invoicing him for that amount every month. If he wants to treat your finances seperatly then he needs to do it with every aspect, not just the ones he cherry picks.

LovesBeingOnHoliday Mon 09-Sep-13 12:29:59

So be doesn't think you should be off work?

StuntGirl Mon 09-Sep-13 12:30:06

Your partner is a cunt. You know that, right?

EldritchCleavage Mon 09-Sep-13 12:42:21

He would really rather you suffer money stress and your children go without than share his money? That's just astonishingly awful.

Look, I work full-time, DH is at home. So I 'pay' for everything. The idea of resenting this or using it as a weapon over DH's head is repulsive to me.

I'm sorry to speak so strongly but I want to impress on you how unkind and frankly, odd, your DH's mindset is. This is not how decent people behave. Please talk to him about it and let him know things have to change.

tripecity Mon 09-Sep-13 12:50:23

I'm yet another person who thinks hes an utter cock

pianodoodle Mon 09-Sep-13 13:02:19

Don't feel bad about the supermarket thing I've had to do the same although no one tutted - ignore rude people!

I think your situation isn't fair and your OH is unreasonable to say the least.

I find it so hard to see how these arrangements work when I read about them. A family unit where one member is struggling financially but the other isn't? Just seems so wrong to me not to all be pulling together.

We are struggling financially but the difference is it's both of our problem to solve as a team. If I came into money I wouldn't just think "well I'm OK now it's just DH with the money problems"

AuchAyethenoo Mon 09-Sep-13 13:10:47

He is my partner, oh=other half, I'm quite new so wasn't too sure of the abbreviations.

It's child maintenance from my ex for my eldest child, not child benefit I was hoping to put aside for her especially now she's in high school for foreign trips etc.

I've never heard of financial abuse.

We agreed to the original arrangement as I was working at the time and could never have anticipated I would suffer from a mental health issue, so at the time it was a fair plan.

unlucky83 Mon 09-Sep-13 13:11:34

I had a similar problem when I became a SAHM - up to then we had split all the bills equally ...at first I was using my savings to pay my half of the bills...worse when he had a business I worked without being paid for him - but all the money from selling it was his!
We sorted it out of a fashion by going to Relate ...he now transfers a set amount from his salary (about half) into my account and I get CB...but I pay all the bills etc for the house, DCs, holidays etc ...all he pays for is stuff for himself ...special things he wants to eat, treats and his car/petrol...
This isn't ideal...I think a joint account may be better (except my DP can be 'tight' with money sometimes and I can see him questioning why I bought x,y, z)
...or maybe bill him for childcare - could he do the same job if you didn't look after the DCs?
Main problem with my arrangement is that things don't cost him any more - so eg he will leave the expensive outside light on, go over the broadband limit...or use 118 or phone mobiles etc etc...
And he is careless - and 'my' things are his -bought with 'his money' - eg the camera - he lost the spare memory card and battery (£40 worth) and if he breaks it he won't pay for a new one...pretty sure he would be more careful if he directly paid for it ...
Also if I buy anything for the DCs (like a cheap DVD etc) and they show him what 'mummy bought' he will comment that it was his money...

And be aware - I've just inherited some money (means that my savings are a bit healthier than they have been since I stopped working) and DP makes nasty comments about it - think for complex reasons - sure it is just his insecurities (rather than any real control issues) but still...a real eye opener ...

pianodoodle Mon 09-Sep-13 13:12:38

He's making you suffer just because your circumstances have changed and he won't adjust for that.

How could you have anticipated what might happen with your health?

Ezio Mon 09-Sep-13 13:16:38

YOur OH is a tight fisted financially abusing dickhead, who likes the little power buzz he gets when your forced to ask for money.

Hegsy Mon 09-Sep-13 13:17:24

OP get him out. You'll be better off in the long run, he's a financially abusive twunt.

unlucky your DH doesn't sound much better hmm

HumphreyCobbler Mon 09-Sep-13 13:18:00

Non abusive people do not stick to plans when circumstances change. They support their partner and children because it is the normal thing to do. He is certainly financially abusing you. I am so sorry.

Nanny0gg Mon 09-Sep-13 13:19:17

AuchAyethenoo

'Partner' suggests equals.

You two most certainly are not. You need legal advice.

RiotsNotDiets Mon 09-Sep-13 13:19:28

LTB

You deserve better.

MonstrousPippin Mon 09-Sep-13 13:19:41

He makes it sound like a business contract not a relationship. He's supposed to love you and care about you. Who would treat the person they and family they love in this way? Accusing you of 'moving the goalposts' is an absolutely disgusting attitude showing no compassion or understanding for the reality of normal life that changes over time.

What a dick. You are being financially abused.

Do you think he would understand if you tried to speak to him about it? From your description of his attitude thus far, I get the impression he would be a complete cock about it but obviously I don't know him so cannot give an opinion on whether to LTB yet.

YANBU.

AuchAyethenoo Mon 09-Sep-13 13:21:50

I manage to scrape money for the bills and mortgage. My mum takes me food shopping once a month for bulk stuff (I havnt told her the situation but have talked about us. Struggling, I hate that she does this, but love her for being there).

When we were doing our renewal for CTC there was a bit of a cockup which left me with no money for about 5 weeks, I had to ask dp for money each week to pay for things. When the renewal came through I had a lump sum of back dated money which I was going to use for clothes for the dc and to pay some of their activities upfront. Instead when I got it through dp reminded me that I owed him money for him having to pay for everything over the course of the 5 weeks.

sooperdooper Mon 09-Sep-13 13:22:22

You need to sit down with him a look at a proper budget of inomings and outgoings, then you need a bank card to his account, so you have access to cash, you shouldn't have to ask - circumstances change so plans have to change around them

pianodoodle Mon 09-Sep-13 13:26:03

A decent man (or woman) would not insist you "owe" them money in those circumstances.

Hegsy Mon 09-Sep-13 13:27:04

your mum takes you food shopping shock so you pay half the bills, clothing and activities for DC and your mum pays the food shop? Just what exactly does this 'man' contribute then?

I hope the mortgage is in joint names, please get out OP. Please

Jergens Mon 09-Sep-13 13:27:05

Your OH's behaviour is demeaning and abusive hmm

TheSmallPrint Mon 09-Sep-13 13:30:00

I am genuinely shock at this. What a controlling wanker. I am assuming you do all the house work and childcare as well as fund 50% of the bills? I would be sending him an invoice for my time for all that if he wants to play silly buggers.

AuchAyethenoo Mon 09-Sep-13 13:30:27

The house is in his name, all of the bills come out of his account. If we split up I'd be left with nothing, my children homeless. It's not a viable option, we don't have anywhere to go.

My youngest, 8 months, is in the process of being diagnosed with cerebral palsy, I need to keep stability for her.

TheSmallPrint Mon 09-Sep-13 13:32:27

Are you married? Are the youngest children his?

CeliaFate Mon 09-Sep-13 13:33:44

You need proper financial advice and your husband needs to hear it too. What he's doing is completely foul and so disrespectful.

CSIJanner Mon 09-Sep-13 13:35:23

If you're paying half the costs, the you won't be left with nothing if you have records. Can you prove that you paid anything to the bills or mortgage?

Oh my God what a nightmare.

OK OP I understand your reasons for not leaving. I'm sorry to hear about your youngest.

Have you tried talking to him about it?

AuchAyethenoo Mon 09-Sep-13 13:38:16

Yes both little ones are his.

We tried to sit down and discuss finances. I asked him to write down all of the household bills and mortgage repayments as I don't know any of this (it all comes out of his account, I give him cash every month, I asked him just to set up a standing order but he said it is easier this way) he said repeatedly that he was tired/wasn't in the mood etc.

I know how much he earns as I fill in the CTC forms, he knows how much I have coming in, so this much at least is transparent.

oh OP this is not good. tbh though MN has totally changed my view about money within the family, my situation was similar to yours when I first joined through naivety on DH and my parts, it's still not 100% for various reasons but I now have money of my own to spend as I choose and I also have a respected place in the family - which I feel is a good place to start. for example if I ever ask DH to pay for something he never asks me to pay him back, he just accepts that the family needed something and somebody paid for it.

this isn't really about being a couple of quid short in the supermarket (which is no big deal by the way - it happens) - it's about something much bigger...PP's are right, get this moved to relationships and kick your OH into gear, he's treating you appallingly and both you and your respective children deserve much much better thanks

soverylucky Mon 09-Sep-13 13:39:07

This is an abusive relationship. Do not stay with this man because you think that there is no alternative. There is. Are you married?

Dh earns more than me but all money into the one account to be used by either party as and when they need/want to. This is what an equal marriage based on trust and respect means.
At the very least you should have a joint account where you each pay a proportion of what you earn into it for all joint bills.

Hegsy Mon 09-Sep-13 13:39:29

Stop paying the mortgage then. Tell him until you are on the deeds you are not contributing to his wealth. Stop doing laundry and cooking for him. Bill him for half the food shopping, travel expenses for children, half of all activities and clothing for children.

How have you been giving him half, is it a SO with a 'mortgage' reference or something? Contact CAB/Womens aid/council for advice. Would also consider getting a free half hour with a solicitor.

AuchAyethenoo Mon 09-Sep-13 13:39:54

The more I'm writing and reading the sicker I'm feeling.

I'm totally fucked aren't I?

OHforDUCKScake Mon 09-Sep-13 13:39:57

This is so, so wrong.

If the bills come out of his account, why are the one paying them? How are you paying them?

Do you give him your CTC?

Unlucky did you post about your partner before? I think I recognise your post in relation to a thread a while back. If it was you, Im glad things have improved a bit.

OHforDUCKScake Mon 09-Sep-13 13:42:05

You are NOT fucked.

Call Womans Aid here

They are amazing. You will NEVER be homeless or moneyless without him. Call these amazing people, they will tell you what you can do if you left him.

You would never, ever be up shit creek if you went it alone.

In fact, it sounds like you would be considerably better off.

PartyOrganisor Mon 09-Sep-13 13:42:25

Then you really really need to have something in place so he is taking some of the responsibility (at the very least financially) for his own dcs.

It is essential that you get a joint account, even if this is about him and you put half the money so all the bills are coming out from that account.

If you are paying half the bill and half the mortgage, does it mean that you are putting money on his account? Keep any proof of that so you can show that you did indeed contribute to the house etc...

And yes this is financial abuse and you do need to do something about it. For your sake but also for the sake of your dcs. If this attitude is what he will be in the future, what is going to happen when your youngest needs more and more care? When you won't be able to work anyway because that child will need you at home?

This is getting worse. Not only you out of work for health reason but on the top of it, you are the carer of your (yours AND his) child and he has an issue with him paying more than half of the costs of living together???

BTW I would recommend you get legal advice, even if you don't plan to leave now. To know your rights and how to protect yourself financially.
Because you might not need it just now, but it looks like you will ion the future.

AnneElliott Mon 09-Sep-13 13:43:25

I agree that you should stop giving him the money for the mortgage. if the house is his, then why are you contributing? Also, stop buying him food - if only you're paying then it's for you and the DCs. I think you need to leave this relationship.

PartyOrganisor Mon 09-Sep-13 13:43:46

In cash???? How convenient....

From now on you have to pay him by DD. That or nothing.

And call women aid too.

so he owns the house and you're in effect paying him rent! what would happen if you just refused to give him anything towards the mortgage and bills?? stability is one thing but this is awful. I think you need some financial advice. I suspect you wouldn't like to chance not paying half, I suspect you think he'll get nasty or ask you to leave, but actually you'd probably be in a better position if you did. please get some advice for your children's sake, at the moment you are stuck and he's in charge, that's not fair on you or them sad

AuchAyethenoo Mon 09-Sep-13 13:45:19

I give him cash.

No I get the CTC, CB and CS paid into my account.

I asked repeatedly for his details to set up a standing order but never got them, he prefers for me to give him my half in cash.

ThisWayForCrazy Mon 09-Sep-13 13:45:37

Don't feel guilty about using maintenance money for your food. Or any other bills. I am sure you provide them with everything they need. Not like they have no shoes and you're saving for lipo!

However, wtf is your husband up to??? Work out how much you really need from him, set up a joint account and he transfers the money in, tax credits etc go in that account too.

That's what we do anyway.

PlotTwist Mon 09-Sep-13 13:46:23

At 8 months old, her stability is YOU. She's not going to care if you're living in a mansion or a hostel. Please get some proper advice, try women's aid. There's no shame in coming up short at the till, but you shouldn't be in that position. And him shoving the money down your bra is horrible, and quite telling. He's putting you (and the kids) in a horrible situation. Please, get some proper advice.

unlucky83 Mon 09-Sep-13 13:52:13

Auch - can you get him to go to Relate
Tbh they far from sorted out all our issues but one positive thing was the money...even though it isn't perfect it is better than it was ...
even when I was paying half the bills and not working he wouldn't rush to pay his half - I had to keep nagging him...which I know is humiliating...
And he does now seem to realise that without me doing what I do/have done he would be much worse off...
Don't put up with it any more ... you really shouldn't have to ...

thegoldenfool Mon 09-Sep-13 13:53:55
AuchAyethenoo Mon 09-Sep-13 13:54:25

I know I'm coming across as a bit dim and pathetic here, I'm really not Im just used to the situation being like this that it seems pretty normal.

It's only been since dp got his promotion which meant the CTC reduction and the issues with our youngest that the stress and worry are really getting to me, that I'm getting a view into how not normal the situation may actually be.

TalkativeJim Mon 09-Sep-13 13:54:43

Wow.

Yes, he has done a complete number on you - making sure that the house is in his name and that there is no record of your contribution.

He is a stinking bag of fetid slime.

Anyway - I'm sure you know that. And I really, really hope that you manage to get rid. In order to do that, I'd get practical.

- talk to Women's Aid and also find a solicitor for a free half hour (or ten solicitors if you can - no reason why you can't go to as many as are within travelling distance!) And set out the situation and see what advice they have about what would happen if you were to split. The harsh reality might be that yes, it's his house and you'd get kicked out, but it's POSSIBLE that it's not as simple as that and that with good support you might be able to have some interest in the house, given your long residence, the children etc. It's their home, and you're their primary carer... BUT, I don't know. You'd have to find out - and I would do that asap.

Secondly, how much pressure could you and your family put on him to put your name on the house? He sounds a nasty bully, but is there any way you COULD turn this around so that your name goes on the deeds? Would you, for example, be in a position (emotionally, mentally) to say - right, that's it, you no longer get a penny out of me which isn't a DD? Would you be able to bring pressure on him with the help of family or friends to put your name on?

TidyDancer Mon 09-Sep-13 13:54:48

Christ. If DP tried to pull that shit on me I would roast him on a stick.

It continually stuns me how many people there are in abusive relationships that, just because the abuse doesn't come in the form of a black eye, don't realise they are being abused. I don't say that to make you feel bad, OP, more to emphasise the point that this is abuse.

I would attempt a very frank conversation about your situation, and then assess your options after this.

I asked repeatedly for his details to set up a standing order but never got them, he prefers for me to give him my half in cash.

FFS please tell the arsehole him that you are not paying him another penny in cash. If you are contributing to his mortgage costs, insist you go on the paperwork and that you will be paying him nothing else until you are and make sure you see the paperwork to confirm it.

Or better still tell him to fuck off.

OHforDUCKScake Mon 09-Sep-13 14:01:34

Oh Christ this gets worse and worse.

OP please, from today you have to try and change things.

He gets more money which means yours is reduced, even then he expects you to give the tiny amount of money that you do get and on top of that asks for it in cash so any contributions you have made toward to mortgage arent on record so you are entitled to nothing if he sold the house.

He really knows what he is doing here and he has prayed on your vulnerability, knowing you have had mental health issues and a sick baby to take your mind away.

Things have got to change, this is so, so wrong. I feel said and angry on your behalf.

You need to be strong and stop this for the sake of your future happiness and your childrens.

AuchAyethenoo Mon 09-Sep-13 14:03:13

I can't leave him, I can't be the one who gave up, that's not who I am.

I can't look at my children everyday knowing I've made their lives that bit worse because of my selfishness. I almost did 6 weeks ago, I wanted to and even got as far as asking tomorrow money from family for a deposit on a rented flat.

I had it out with him, and one thing he said is true, it would make the kids lives worse and it would be my fault. I love them more than life itself, I can't be the cause of their worlds being torn apart.

mistlethrush Mon 09-Sep-13 14:07:46

Why would it make their lives worse? He would have to pay maintenance for his two children. You would almost certainly get help with rent etc - you might even be able to get to the end of the shop with a bit left over if you were careful.

Squitten Mon 09-Sep-13 14:09:40

IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT THAT YOUR PARTNER IS A MONSTER!!

Sorry to shout but your partner really is a nasty, nasty piece of work. He is keeping you dependant, financially locked down and then telling you that if you demand change, YOU will be ruining your kids lives. That is all so, so wrong I don't even know where to begin. I'm so sad for you that you actually believe that enourmous pile of b* s**t.

Utter, utter monster. I'm actually furious for you!

AuchAyethenoo Mon 09-Sep-13 14:11:12

They love him and he loves them. To not have him every day would be a detriment to them.

SPBisResisting Mon 09-Sep-13 14:12:30

Glad hes not dh. For better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health. The words would choke him

Buzzardbird Mon 09-Sep-13 14:12:58

You could do with posting this is relationships topic as there are some forms of abuse going on here and there are a lot of really good posters on there with good advice.
Someone up there /\ mentioned Women's Aid. You really should contact them as your last post probably had most of us shaking our heads with frustration. He has done a real number on you. He has no respect for you or the job you do looking after his children.
You should not be giving him half the money that is meant to help you feed and clothe your children. He should be providing in these circumstances.
This man has no love or respect for you, what are his good points?

PiddlingWeather Mon 09-Sep-13 14:12:59

What the fuck is wrong with some men?

Really?

OP, this is so, so wrong.

AllThatGlistens Mon 09-Sep-13 14:15:55

Oh god sweetie your perception of this is all skewed sad

He is abusing you, absolutely, and by default, your children, because he is placing you in this impossible situation.

It's so very, very wrong, and your children will not grow up with a healthy, normal understanding view of how loving relationships work if they continue to see their mother living like this.

Please listen to the wise people on here and take advice, he's treating you disgustingly.

Ezio Mon 09-Sep-13 14:16:05

Hes a being a detriment to them, hes making you struggle, hes putting stress on their mummy but being a absolute twunt.

This is a lesson you dont want to make those kids learn, this not family life, this is akin to slavery.

You'll be fine without him, they will be fine with contact, your kids wont thank you for being a martyr.

Dackyduddles Mon 09-Sep-13 14:19:10

Bollox it would.

It is a detriment to them that their mother is accepting being treated like a whore and a doormat.

It is detriment to them that you accept this as due to you.

It is detriment to them that they think their home life I'd normal, it isn't.

You deserve better op. your kids definitely do.

OHforDUCKScake Mon 09-Sep-13 14:19:26

your last post probably had most of us shaking our head in frustration

That^ indeed.

OP you know this isnt right, the kids will thrive without him. They will thrive because you will thrive.

However, it sounds like you may not be quite ready to accept that.

Fantastic that your family can give you deposit for a flat when you are ready. Remember WOMANS AID for when the time comes.

unlucky83 Mon 09-Sep-13 14:21:22

Auch - actually missed lots of that -must have not refreshed or something...
I would be seriously worried about contributing cash to mortgage etc - no record of payments ... you really do need to get help... some legal/financial advice...
I think my DP is a bit of a thoughtless idiot (understatement) but not deliberately controlling - I think yours sounds abusive and like he knows what he is doing ...
Just refreshed again - alarm bells are ringing - him giving you the guilt trip on top of everything - you really need to escape...
It is not your fault ...Maybe you need someone to tell him this is so wrong - I think contact Women's Aid.
This is not going to get better... you need to change something...

(Duck - yes probably - maybe have name changed since? (been on and off mumsnet for years...) -and I could go on about how I understand DPs relationship with money much better than I used to etc ...)

EldritchCleavage Mon 09-Sep-13 14:21:57

My dear, it sounds as though he is actually prepared to see you leave, and blame you for ruining the kids' lives, when it could all be sorted if he would just share money more fairly. You are not being unreasonable, he is being extreme.

Have you told anyone in RL? If you've got a friend or relative you trust, please do talk it over with them.

BlackholesAndRevelations Mon 09-Sep-13 14:23:09

I'm so sad for you I could cry <hormonal pregnant woman>

Seriously. Your children will be happier in the long run if their mother is not in an oppressive, abusive, "relationship", whether with their father or not.

If you can muster the strength to get some advice, please do. In the meantime if you do nothing else, you MUST stop handing over half of your cash.

I hope all goes well for your little dd sad

MissStrawberry Mon 09-Sep-13 14:23:59

How did you "move the goal posts" alone? How on Earth did you manage to fertilise children alone? hmm

Come on, get some balls. You are not giving up if you leave. You are not making your children's life worse by splitting. You would be doing them a massive favour!!

You are being abused. He takes money from you and your children.

Even if their life's were worse WHICH THEY WON'T BE is it is HIS doing.

AuchAyethenoo Mon 09-Sep-13 14:24:50

Is there a way to ask for the thread to be moved to a different board?

He'll be in soon so I'll need to sign out until he's gone to football.

I never really thought he was the things everyone is saying here, then last night I just became so despondent as he has decided not to come to a very important appointment for our baby on Wednesday which is why I'm not doing alot to defend him here.

littlemisswise Mon 09-Sep-13 14:26:32

He is a very clever, manipulating monster in my opinion.

How much money does he give you a week for his food and share of cleaning products and toiletries?

TalkativeJim Mon 09-Sep-13 14:27:26

Nope, nope, nope. It won't make their lives worse.

You're not the only one being taken for a mug - your kids are too.

All of you are being bullied into your family resources being creamed off so that the pig at the top of the pile gets to sit pretty.

Your last post is exactly the kind of bullshit women in your position get fed, to keep them feeling guilty and keep them in place. Oooh how can you do this to the kids! Bullshit, real, horrible bullshit.

Your children are going to grow up seeing one parent belittle, bully and abuse the other.

They would be 100% better off out of that situation.

And you can bet your last £ that were Mr. Pig to change his mind and decide he wanted out of the relationship, your childrens' needs wouldn't be worth a damn. Or where they lived, as he's done his best to make sure that they don't have a secure home also under the control of their primary carer.

He isn't your friend. He isn't your childrens' friend.

gamerchick Mon 09-Sep-13 14:28:18

What would happen if you refused to pay half of the mortgage?

I would recommend that until he's put you on it tbh.

sad What an awful situation to be in. He's abhorrent.

AuchAye - this comment you wrote just leaped out at me
I can't leave him, I can't be the one who gave up, that's not who I am. and the reason why it jumped out at me is that I don't for one second think that by leaving your OH that you would be "giving up". I think he just hasn't been in this relationship from the start.
Sometimes it is better for two unhappy adults who don't see eye to eye on things to live separate lives and be happier adults (I hope that sentence makes sense to you).

I got angry that you are asked to hand over cash yet he wont hand over bank details for you to lodge the money into it.

Please take the advice that has been posted so far - you wouldn't be giving up, you'll be getting wise to his carry on.

Best of luck to you.

Inertia Mon 09-Sep-13 14:34:59

He is financially abusing you.

He is also a conniving manipulative bastard. He has insisted on cash so that there is no record of you making a contribution to the household.

To begin with, please don't give him any more cash payments. And please please please get some advice from an organisation like Women's Aid.

You would not be at fault if this relationship broke down. Your children will not benefit from having this man bully and abuse their mother.

Pilgit Mon 09-Sep-13 14:36:06

if he loves his children he will provide properly for them and treat their mother with respect. he is doing neither. CTC were reduced as the gov assume the earner supports their family. by leaving you will set an example that this is not an acceptable way to treat people you are supposed to love. you are not going to get the ideal. sometimes good eough is good enough.

Talkinpeace Mon 09-Sep-13 14:44:58

So he makes you pay half the mortgage even though you are not earning, and makes you do it in cash so there's no record.
In fact there is no proof he's paying the mortgage
just he's got a lot of cash over and above his salary to play with

- have you seen the mortgage statement
- have you seen the utility bills

sorry but not often do I think there is only one side to a story
OP leave him. NOW.

Beautifulbabyboy Mon 09-Sep-13 14:48:04

I am so sorry to read about your situation. I echo what everyone else is saying but also wanted to add one other thing. I have mild cerebral palsy. It is annoying to have, but that is it annoying. I have a wonderful husband and 2 great kids, so please don't be disheartened if your DD is diagnosed with CP, it is certainly not the end of the world, her future will be just as bright. Perhaps the biggest obstacle to your DD's future is the example her father is setting her. Xx

MissStrawberry Mon 09-Sep-13 14:51:39

If you stay you are giving up on having an equal, fulfilling, loving and supportive relationship with someone else.

Mindmaps Mon 09-Sep-13 14:54:39

I think many women who are abused when it is ea or financial cannot see that it is not just themselves that is being abused but also their children and as well as the short term damage to them having a stressed mother but the long term effects on their children's perception of healthy relationships.

AuchAyethenoo Mon 09-Sep-13 15:07:36

Thank you beautifulbabyboy, it's a stressful situation ATM as we're still at the very beginning but she is a tenacious wee thing and is working so hard on everything, in fact she just started rolling over yesterday!

I feel like an idiot to have let this situation happen, I want to fix it, but dp is impossible to pin down for a conversation. I have suggested counselling before but it's not something he wants to do.

Talkinpeace Mon 09-Sep-13 15:11:48

Aucheye
Of course he does not want to talk about it.
He is currently in a position of absolute strength and ANY negotiation or alteration will weaken that.
So you have to just do the right thing.
Start by refusing to hand over ANY cash.
Then ONLY do half (your half) of the house.
If he throws you out, so be it.
You'll get rehomed right away and the CSA will take him to the cleaners (with the experts on these boards advising you)
And then you can find somebody nice.
Blood parents are OK, but nice parents are better.

PedantMarina Mon 09-Sep-13 15:12:31

Have read this with my jaw dropping ever more. Can't add much to what other, excellent, posters have been saying, apart from my own (financial abuse) story which would be in serious danger of thread hijack. Oh, and supportive hugs, of course.

I wish I could just blip into your mind how wrong this situation is.

But in the meantime, if it's not prying, can you talk a bit more about your MH issues? I'm just wondering if it's something that was actually caused by DP. It sounds like you're immeasurably stressed, and this can't be helping - indeed, I wonder if it's either set it off entirely by his behaviour/attitude and/or certainly hasn't helped by it.

Please talk to RL support, and Women's Aid.

MissStrawberry Mon 09-Sep-13 15:12:33

You don't need his permission to sort this mess out.

DuelingFanjo Mon 09-Sep-13 15:18:22

if he's not buying any food then don't feed him.

Hegsy Mon 09-Sep-13 15:19:55

Auch I want to cry for you sad your children will be fine if you are apart in fact they'll be better. You'll have more money without him and less stress how can that be a bad thing for them?

And TBH if your family were willing to contribute to a deposit that would suggest they see your partner for what he is!

IneedAsockamnesty Mon 09-Sep-13 15:28:44

No doubt at all that this is financial abuse you are not only paying half the bills but he is also making money from you.

Tax credits are worked out on household income they assume that it is household available funds not one persons.

No way at all will you be doing anything other than improving things for your children if you leave

Didactylos Mon 09-Sep-13 15:31:54

AuchAyethenoo, theres many of us been in similar situations and it takes a lot to realise you are being financially (and emotionally) manipulated when you are in the middle of it. Hes been very sly in getting you to pay the mortgage without any records of this and his 'stress' and memory issues when youve tried to sort it out imply hes manipulating this situation to his advantage, and making you come out the loser.

Youve made the compromises here in the relationship- comitting to him, taking time out of work, having children, becoming SAHM, paying a half share in everything, tying your life financially and personally to his, making the choices of a loving partner, while he has not changed his outlook and priorities one bit - its his mortgage, he stuffs money down your bra to humiliate you when you ask, the household depends on your mum subbing you.

If your incomes are not equal and you dont share all outgoings then paying half cannot be fair. Could you suggest a more proportionate split? You will need to discuss money and have this out with him in some way, its not fair on you or your children and hes robbing them of their financial security and a happy confident mother which is not fair in any way.

PartyOrganisor Mon 09-Sep-13 15:52:14

You know if you were to take the decision to leave, I am sure you wouldn't be the one who has given up.
The person who has given up on his partner, his dcs and his family is the one who is refusing to participate to the daily cost of raising a family. The one who isn't even bothered to attend important appointment about his child, a child who has and will have much more complex needs than other children.
The one who thinks it's OK to ask you some back (wtf!?!) when your benefits got stopped for a few weeks.
The one who is withholding any financial information from his partner and has set everything up so that he has no risk of losing anything at all (house, wages etc...)
The one who probably has been able to put money aside for himself whilst his partner was struggling to make meets end. Even though that was to pay for his food, for his children.
The one who is refusing to do anything for his won dcs, not even pay for their food and clothes.

Now I am wondering who is that. You? certainly not.
Him? Of course, he is the one who has let everyone down, you and his 2 dcs, and has done so for a very long time.

starfishmummy Mon 09-Sep-13 15:57:26

This is not a good environment for your children.

What if he gets another promotion? If this one has reduced what is paid to you, him earning more could wipe it out - what are you going to do then?

DH and I had the same sort of agreement regarding sharing the bills , but when our dc came along that all changed. That's what couples do.

Look, he can't be pinned down for a conversation, but he wants cash from you. So stop handing over cash until you have the conversation. In fact don't hand over a penny in cash ever again. If he asks for cash tell him it's standing order or nothing, and not until you come to a fair agreement as to who pays what.
He won't roll over and agree, of course. But you can only try to set out your stall and see what happens.

DidoTheDodo Mon 09-Sep-13 16:01:27

Haven't read all the thread but does he resent paying for the eldest that (I surmise) isn't his?

I would have said (regardless of his attitude to you and the children) that the money you receive from your ex is child support and should be used to feed clothe and house your eldest, not as savings.

Agreeing with what others have said about it being very unfair and must be very stressful for you too.

Rudejude7 Mon 09-Sep-13 16:05:34

Totally agree with other comments. Have it out with him now or, even better, get rid!

Buzzardbird Mon 09-Sep-13 16:26:04

If you want to move the thread to 'relationships' as it clearly isn't a AIBU (as you are not for a million years) you just need to 'report' it and say in the comments box that you would like it moved.
You need real life support too OP, do you have any? Women's Aid could let you know how they can help with no obligation by you to follow the advice but it would be good to know that you could do this.

stowsettler Mon 09-Sep-13 16:26:54

Fucking hell, I am in tears reading this. How the hell can you not see what is so incredibly clear? Please leave him, contact Women's Aid and let the CSA loose on him.
I wonder how your ex would feel if he knew that the maintenance he paid for his child was going into the pocket of the wanker you are currently with.
Sorry that sounded a bit bullying (oh the irony). You poor thing, you really have to go.

Preferthedogtothekids Mon 09-Sep-13 16:32:32

My OH and I both trained at uni together and qualified in the same job at the same time. We started work on the same salary but we had our DC and my work became more part-time and sporadic to help us cope.

Since we made the decision to have children we have had a joint account. Nearly 20 years on and we still have a joint account and he now earns about 3 times the wage I do.

It's family money, we're a team raising 2 children (and a dog). I keep track of the outgoings and tell him when there's extra for him to spend on his hobbies, but that's after the kids and the house/debts have had their share.

That's normal isn't it?

unlucky83 Mon 09-Sep-13 16:34:17

Auch - you have to give him no choice re the counselling /getting someone else's take on your situation ...
I agree with PPs - of course he doesn't want to talk to anyone or change things - he's got it too easy...
And if he won't go you haven't failed he has...
You can go to somewhere like Relate on your own - but I really think you should contact Women's aid...

colourmehappytheresasofainhere Mon 09-Sep-13 16:36:51

Hope your ok op. What's happening to you isn't right.

Toocold Mon 09-Sep-13 16:44:28

Auch, I am writing as the child of the financial abuser, when my mum eventually left, it got better, only better. It is not your fault. These men are controllers. As an adult I now have a relationship with my dad but it took a long time for me to accept him and a lot of change on his part, and he and I will both say it was all his doing. Your children will be so much better off seeing their mother as a strong role model, than watching their dad bullying their mum. As an adult I am affected by my dad's behaviour but in the sense that I will only except equality in everything, nothing less, that was down to my mum being strong.

I hope you find the you find the strength to do whatever works for you. Remember you are a parent for life and whilst your children maybe initially upset by any change they are resilient and it will become apparent as they become older why any change has happened.

This is not your doing, it is his.

Beautifulbabyboy Mon 09-Sep-13 16:46:20

That's brilliant that she is tenacious and in which case I really wouldn't worry! If you have any personal questions or concerns please PM me. My parents were given a pretty negative diagnosis by doctors when I was 12 months old, and none of it has come true, in part due to my own tenancity (!) and in part due to my parents support and refusal to use CP as an excuse not to be able to do anything... I may have fallen over a bit more than other kids but I could ride a bike, i got all my swimming badges etc etc. in fact there was nothing i couldn't do - it juat may have taken a little longer to get there!

DameDeepRedBetty Mon 09-Sep-13 16:54:19

It's very easy to get your own thread moved, 'report' your own Original Post and just say you've realised it should be in Relationships (which is full of lovely helpful people). At this time of day it should be shifted pretty quickly.
Very best wishes DDRB

OliviaMMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 09-Sep-13 18:33:55

Hi there OP
As others have said, do let us know (on the thread or by reporting) if you'd like us to move this to our rships topic - it's a quick job
THanks
MNHQ

captainmummy Mon 09-Sep-13 18:58:43

OP - couple of things struck me. One that you feel that you would be 'giving up' - but you cannot work on a partnership on your own. It takes 2. You have to both want the partnership - and it doesn't sound as if he is giving you much in the way of respect for your efforts. SO... it's not you giving up - it's him never working for it in the first place.

Other thing - you say dc love him and he loves them; but he is denying them enough food, clothing, shoes, days out... and the rest by restricting your access to joint money.

It is so wrong that you pay everything and he gets to keep his wages ' because you moved the goalposts'. The goalposts were moved independently of you - you did nothing. It happened.

You know - if you moved out, he would have to pay (to you) about 15%of his take-home pay through the CSA (check this - it might be more for 2 dc) - i bet that's more than he pays you now. And you wouldn't have to shell out for his stuff/food/electric. Does he know this?

Retroformica Mon 09-Sep-13 18:59:43

By asking for cash there is no paper trail showing you pay for half the mortgage and bills etc.

Start writing cheques to cover the amount he requests. Refuse to give cash saying its not what you want to do. At least them there will be a paper trail showing what's happening.

Text him every month stating you have left a cheque for your half of the bills and mortgage (as always). Keep a screen shot.

Retroformica Mon 09-Sep-13 19:01:10

I think he is trying to protect his financial interests and expects the relationship not to last.

OliviaMMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 09-Sep-13 21:09:42

Hi there
We have moved this thread out of AIbu into relationships

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Mon 09-Sep-13 21:49:49

I can't leave him, I can't be the one who gave up, that's not who I am.

OP, don't promise yourself that you will beat your head against a brick wall until the brick wall crumbles.

You don't sound as though you want to be in that relationship at all - is that because of the appointment for your DD or a more general feeling?

It does sound like you're not used to thinking of your own value - as a role model for your dcs, for example.

In general, children meeting up regularly with their father have every chance of continuing to enjoy a close relationship with him. And in your case, they would also enjoy having a much less stressed and worn down mother, who could begin to value herself more (which in turn will help them to value you more).

I think your recent decision to leave was a good one, but you need to go with it for a month or two longer before you can see whether it's a decision you're happy with.

2isamagicnumber Mon 09-Sep-13 21:52:57

In the Guardian newspaper, Saturday's family section A letter to ..., the letter is from a woman in a very similar position to yourself. Maybe worth having a look online.

It's heartbreaking that you feel responsible when its your oh who is at fault. How can he stand by and see you and your child go without as he wants to stick to an agreement, pre children, to spilt your finances.

You shouldn't have to put up with it. Do you not feel you and your children deserve better? That said, having split from my dh over a year ago, you sometimes need space to realise you deserve better.

GuybrushThreepwoodMP Mon 09-Sep-13 22:29:05

What a lovely easy wealthy life your oh has. Even lovelier since his promotion. Lots of lovely money, all for him.

What a prize cunt he is though.

captainmummy Tue 10-Sep-13 08:02:41

Yep Guybrush ;- lots of lovely money, all his, a family who is looked after 24/7, a home he gets paid 50% for, food someone else pays for and cooks ...
I just bet he doesn't want to change anything!

Ezio Tue 10-Sep-13 08:13:24

I agree with GuybrushThreepword (Mighty Pirate)

Hes got a nice cushy life with alot of disposable income.

halfwayupthehill Tue 10-Sep-13 09:14:37

I have never heard of a sahm being expected to pay half the bills.
If your name is not on the deeds then you will have no stake in the house. He is asking for cash deliberately. There are several legal cases of men who conned their partners into paying for the mortgage and left them high and dry.
You will be better off financially as a lone parent on benefits.

Roshbegosh Tue 10-Sep-13 09:21:42

It depresses me to think women can be treated like this and accept it in 2013. Please OP wake up and smell the coffee, it is not 1930. Either this goes on until you are a bullied pensioner or you make something change. This is your life!

GuybrushThreepwoodMP Tue 10-Sep-13 12:50:24

smile Ezio

PartyOrganisor Tue 10-Sep-13 21:18:50

hi Auch are you OK?

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