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Dating Thread 63- disappearers, wedding bells and dodgy eye candy, all are welcome

(1000 Posts)

MNHQ have commented on this thread. Read here.

hostesswithleastest Thu 05-Sep-13 23:36:09

Oops that title may have put off newcomers :D

Anyway.... the old thread is dead long live the new!

hostesswithleastest Thu 05-Sep-13 23:36:48

Kin your Latin guy is bragging a lot about his level of endowment. Time to disengage

MirandaWest Thu 05-Sep-13 23:39:33

Hello smile

hostesswithleastest Thu 05-Sep-13 23:43:34

Evening Miranda

rubbishfamily333 Fri 06-Sep-13 00:01:08

Hostess - I just tried to post on the last thread to say no to exes!!! No no no! Stay away wink

All my exes stayed too long and time to be ruthless and strong grin

rubbishfamily333 Fri 06-Sep-13 00:02:15

Western - they will keep my details and contact me if there is anything suitable! They also gave me some good tips grin

Kirstywirsty Fri 06-Sep-13 05:55:51

Just marking my spot .. FoF still lovely

kittykat10 Fri 06-Sep-13 07:07:36

Morning

I'm not sure if he was abusive or he just didn't think .
The horrible thing is I wanted him back but all he wanted is sex , that why I went down the mates line.
Didn't expect to even kiss this bloke let alone what I did on a 3rd date.

49howdidthathappen Fri 06-Sep-13 07:10:00

Morning all smile

Wedding bells <starts day dreaming>

Snapespeare Fri 06-Sep-13 07:57:56

Nameless and I went to the seaside yesterday (to a naturist beach!) then he came back here and stayed the night. WITH THE DCs IN THE HOUSE! All went well. All manner of things are pretty fucking awesome. But I have sunburn. blush grin

MirandaWest Fri 06-Sep-13 07:59:29

Where do you have sunburn? grin

Snapespeare Fri 06-Sep-13 08:07:25

On things that haven't seen the sun before! my huge pink flabby belly

Signing in grin
It's all freak or unique on pof
hmm

kittykat10 Fri 06-Sep-13 09:07:50

Any weekend dates ?

Mr car can't make it this weekend but I've asked if he fancy the local festival next weekend.

So me and a book this weekend !

lubeybooby England Fri 06-Sep-13 09:13:06

Hi all just popping in with a :D at upcoming weekend with Henry :D :D excited!

Good luck to anyone with dates this weekend

Snape :D at the nakey beach but soothing aloe vibes for your sunburn <nods wisely>

hostesswithleastest Fri 06-Sep-13 10:02:32

Thanks rubbish I needed to hear that!! God the flesh is weak...

snape big grin smile

hostesswithleastest Fri 06-Sep-13 10:03:17

And big congrats to you too lubey

49 I had you in mind for the wedding bells smile

hostesswithleastest Fri 06-Sep-13 10:04:21

I have weekend sort of date with someone from Rl. Older guy, ex of a friend. She sings his praises all the time so we'll see: I'm slightly meh but he is great fun.

Secretservice Fri 06-Sep-13 10:23:08

Morning!
Next time you fancy a seaside trip Snameless go a bit further down the coast and visit meeee! No nakedy beaches, but there's meee! And yes aloe Vera or sudacrem for the soreness

Looby grin at Henry, so pleased it's still going well. Same to Kirsty and all the other woo-hit loved-ups

Very little to report on OD front. Had an ok date last week with Poet, would've met again but only wants to meet if it's at least a whole, 'relaxed day in the country'! Yeah right! I'm going to lose a whole day with my kids after working 5/6 days a week for a man I've met once!

After being bombarded with texts and calls - most of which I guiltily ignored - about his 'very good poetry' and wasting energy trying to play down his expectations, I emailed him to say it was all too much for me, that we wanted different things etc etc. He replied that's fine, 'courtships should be slow' and he's a 'very patient man'. Arrrgggghh!

I don't have to reply do I?

kittykat10 Fri 06-Sep-13 10:35:17

I'd not reply if it was me .

lubeybooby England Fri 06-Sep-13 11:04:50

I wouldn't reply again SS

Bant Fri 06-Sep-13 11:07:54

Checking in.

secret I'd reply with something like 'I'm sorry, I've only met you once and it's a little early for you to 'court' me. I think its best if we didn't meet again' you freak

kittykat10 Fri 06-Sep-13 11:31:06

Ok men are like buses! Taken me since April to get Mr car to meet me but he is sweet ,kind and well made me blush , but now two messages of guys I met on pof ages ago.
I'd given up on any chance with Mr car especially since the guy who introduced us doesn't talk to me anymore, so started to chat to these blokes after being dumped , now I don't know what to do.
I got ripped apart on here for sort of moving on so fast from bf but when I knew Mr car regretted not seeing me I knew deep down bf wasn't right for me.

Mr car well I liked him before meeting him , maybe I'm making more of it than I should but there something about him, do I go for dates with these others or concentrate ok on one I really like.

We have had 3 dates all have been all afternoon / day things and been so nice.

To be honest I like him and I'm a bit confused , he taken me at face value he wasn't fazed when I said I had eating issue.

hostesswithleastest Fri 06-Sep-13 11:50:08

He sounds great actually kitty and remember the right man will not be phased by your eating issue.

Poet sounds an insensitive nightmare! Delete!!

OhWesternWind Fri 06-Sep-13 12:27:02

I do not like the sound of the Poet SS! (Have you read any of his poetry by the way? Can imagine that situation being excruciating). Either ignore or send a very clear No Thanks message.

Kitty it's still early days with MrCar so if you feel like it would be a good move then meet up with the other guys. You're not committing yourself to anything by going on a date. I wonder why these other guys have popped up again - did they ask you for a date first time round? I think if it were me I'd concentrate on the one I liked but I know other people would do the opposite. Really depends on what sits right with you.

Snape all is sounding wonderful for you apart from the sunburn Wedding Stakes have you, 49 and Tigsy as front runners . . .

Glad all is well with you and Henry, Lubey

I am on a hot date tonight whoo hoo!! Can't wait to see him. Have missed him a lot this week.

kittykat10 Fri 06-Sep-13 12:59:36

We'd exchanged numbers but never said about dates, one said he'd been busy but my friend had seen him o n pof a fair bit

superdooperpenguin Fri 06-Sep-13 14:21:04

I've revamped my POF profile with new pics and am currently speaking to 3 men, all very different. No 1 is a 30 something gardener, no 2 is a 40yr old pharmacist and no 3 is a 27 yr old Swedish lorry driver! I am in lust with no 3 wink

Good luck to all those with weekend dates - I have a date with Ben & Jerrys tonight!!

DadfromUncle Fri 06-Sep-13 15:14:41

Good luck to all weekend daters (and non-daters)

rubbishfamily333 Fri 06-Sep-13 15:25:41

Secret - I like bants response wink

Well I went on POF a few nights ago and has a few messages! One guy that messaged me is very good looking and said he had to message me grin we exchanged a few messages now he hasn't responded hmm I added him to favourites last night and still not heard from him.

I have also been messaging a guy that is a personal trainer who has just started work as an English teacher. He has an amazing body! But when messaging the tone seems a bit like firing questions instead o friendly chat! He asked if I have whatsapp and then sent me a few pictures which I didn't ask for but were very nice and asked if I had any pictures. I have about four on POF surely that's enough? I'm very critical of my own photos and hate sending them!

OhWesternWind Fri 06-Sep-13 15:56:01

Penguin that sounds a bit of a mixed bag but plenty of potential!

Family I would be a bit wary I think as this type of thing can often be the precursor to a request for more erm intimate pictures. If you don't want to send them, then don't - as you say there are plenty of pictures on your profile and that's more than enough. Some people aren't very good at the online chat, though, especially if they're not very good at typing which does tend to restrict the flow of conversation if you're typing words out very very slowly with one finger. Hope the other one comes back but if not, you know what to do. Next!

Good luck to everyone who's out this weekend - who's on a date?

Secretservice Fri 06-Sep-13 16:02:27

Just a quick drop by supposed to be working!
But wanted to say yes, OWW I have seen his poetry he presented a folder of them within minutes OD sitting down! Had to skim read while he looked at me expectantly!

KinNora Fri 06-Sep-13 16:19:54

Secret there can never be any excuse whatsoever for foisting amateur poetry on a person. Never.

I feel strongly about this kind of human rights abuse.

SweetSeraphim Fri 06-Sep-13 16:49:28

Secret that is dreadful! How awkward. And... worraknob! grin

Bant Fri 06-Sep-13 19:16:34

Amateur poets
Think they are wise and unique,
But they are just knobs.

Moanranger Fri 06-Sep-13 19:16:49

Noragrin
Meet Up guy cooking tonight. DCs down tomorrow. Interestingly, the lateness thing that was sort of bothering me seems to have faded away. Basically, he is on time when needs must, but otherwise is a bit Latin in his time-keeping.
I can deal with it.
Better than STBXH who was a real watch tapper.

KinNora Fri 06-Sep-13 19:23:08

Moan is 'watch tapper' a euphemism for 'wanker' ?

Bant that was just beautiful <emotional face>

49howdidthathappen Fri 06-Sep-13 19:41:08

If I stay reasonably sober tomorrow night I may mention the 'M' word, if I get hammered I will only be interested in lurrve wink

OWW We know you will have a fab time smile

Moan R&Rs time keeping has improved for no discernible reason confused

Secret Poet sounds like he has found the 'one', umm Poet grin

lovelybunchofcoconuts Fri 06-Sep-13 19:41:57

Evening new fred and evening everyone on it.

Bant grin

Kin also grin

In my news I'm back at work smile and back with Ironman although I'm taking it steady as I'm a bit hmmmm about it. There will be no more talk of moving in together for a good while, which suits me fine.

Snapespeare Fri 06-Sep-13 19:54:55

Nameless back off to nameless land. At the station he mentioned that he'd left his spare toothbrush here. This is good, yes? Kids have been wuestioned and really like him. And he drew the tenor cups from the tarot deck I leave next to the bed. <woo alert!>

'The Ten of Cups is also a very positive card in terms of romantic relationships and may indicate either the beginning of a new, very happy relationship, or the ultimate satisfaction of a long-term relationship. Commitment and love are the requirements of such satisfaction, yet this card promises that with the required effort a lasting love can be built. The time will also be made for the enjoyment of pleasures, which may be shared with another person whom you love.'

blush

Oh, he's lovely!

MirandaWest Fri 06-Sep-13 19:57:24

It is all very good Snape smile

<tries to decide who to bet on for first thread wedding>

MirandaWest Fri 06-Sep-13 20:00:00

Mr Nice is in Scotland with his DS, leaving him at university. He's coming back here tomorrow. Is my birthday on Sunday. Had told the DC that Mr Nice might be a bit sad after saying goodbye to his DS and my DS suggested he could "come here and sleep in the same bed as you because I think he'd like that".

Surprising but nice bit of empathy from 9 year old DS there grin

KinNora Fri 06-Sep-13 20:35:39

That's very touching and thoughtful of your ds, Miranda.

Lovely so you've set your mind at rest about the issues that were bothering you ?

Snape are you hogging da woo ?

OWW have a lovely time with splendid Alpha

49 In the words of Mrs Doyle - gowan, gowan, gowan, gowan, gowan , gowan !

I have nothing to report apart from text flirting with Spud which he totally started and which I know is a really bad idea

kittykat10 Fri 06-Sep-13 20:46:58

Well he said he may see me tmoz but I've played it cool said get your jobs done !
I want to but we'll don't want to see easy lol

ALittleStranger Fri 06-Sep-13 20:56:14

Sends vibes urging 49 to stay sober

MirandaWest Fri 06-Sep-13 21:05:24

Ah yes we need a sober 49 grin

Bant Fri 06-Sep-13 21:43:20

I still miss a drunken ike though

49howdidthathappen Fri 06-Sep-13 21:48:13

Miranda What a lovely little chap smile

Kin A really bad itch is difficult impossible not to scratch.

I may need a little Dutch courage. He will need a lot grin

49howdidthathappen Fri 06-Sep-13 21:50:06

Don't we all Bant

KinNora Fri 06-Sep-13 21:52:08

Yes 49 it certainly is.

Maybe Ike will come back but she was threatening to go on a health kick and get sensible the other day - shock

Yogagirl17 Fri 06-Sep-13 22:01:15

Hello, good evening! I'm going to stop apologising for not keeping up.

Nice Haiku Bant - have you got a whole book of them I could read?

All still going very, very (did I mention very?) well with SnS. We speak on the phone almost every night and we have almost a whole weekend planned together - first time we'll have been able to spend more than a few hours together. I've even mentioned him to my kids which is a first for me. DS thinks it's nice but funny that "mummy has a booyyyfrieennnddd". grin

Winefiend Fri 06-Sep-13 22:30:51

I reet miss DJ Ike

So much woo on here it is unreal.

Nora HAVE YOU BOOKED YWR FLIGJT

KinNora Fri 06-Sep-13 22:32:30

NO ! ( I think he's just being polite )

Winefiend Fri 06-Sep-13 22:34:28

Hahaha oh dear grin

Generally I type and auto correct after as my keypad is miniscule but it was not to be this eve.

Ok, so Nora have you booked your flight yet (caps lock has lost effect now)

I am spending this eve streaming the new Arctic Monkeys album. It is sexaaaaaaay. Going oot themora so we shall see.

Winefiend Fri 06-Sep-13 22:36:08

Nora fackin hell you understood that? One for the CV you know: multilingual: I speak English and Pisshead.

KinNora Fri 06-Sep-13 22:47:57

That was nowt to a woman of my calibre Wine, I used to be able to interpret drunken Geordies - oh yes.

Winefiend Sat 07-Sep-13 01:46:41

Nora you are a woman of amazing talents. Multi lingual.

Rather than go out and terrorise converse with gentleman, I have spent a pleasant evening drinking wine, listening to me new bloke Alex (he isn't aware of it yet), spooning Nutella into me gob.

Then (not sure why but possibly spurred on by 'why do you always call me when you're high' and a spate of uh oh I do that) I deleted every text and number on me phone belonging to a bloke that wasn't a friend (or amicable lovely ex). It was actually very liberating.

In an odd state of bliss. Though that might be the Nutella.

KinNora Sat 07-Sep-13 07:52:08

Morning everyone,

Wine that does sound liberating, apart from the Nutella by the spoonful. A contact purge can be quite cathartic.

Yoga it's lovely to hear you sound so happy, yay SnS !

Where's my frickin' woo ? Where ? I'm a woo-free zone.

Have a spectacular Saturday and 49, don't disappoint us.

49howdidthathappen Sat 07-Sep-13 09:42:02

Yoga Very, very happy for you smile

Wine The wonders of Nutella!

Will do my best Kin Have to get it out there.

Have a woo-full Saturday everyone.

Winefiend Sat 07-Sep-13 12:38:48

Nora I am woo-less too, you can share me Nutella if it helps. Lovely on croissants y'know.

49 What Nora said grin

MirandaWest Sat 07-Sep-13 12:40:17

My DC seem to have eaten all the Nutella hmm

Winefiend Sat 07-Sep-13 12:42:55

Miranda Definitely a grounding offence that one sad

MirandaWest Sat 07-Sep-13 13:01:03

Well seeing as none of us have got dressed yet this is probably a good thing smile

I need some motivation to tidy up. It's my birthday tomorrow (smile) and then Mr Nice and I going away to Italy for a week on Tuesday smile but my mum and dad are coming on Monday which requires a little housework to be done....

OhWesternWind Sat 07-Sep-13 13:10:26

I keep hoping Ike will reappear in all her glory ...

49 oh you just have to say something tonight. You two are so lovely, MrR&R is one of the real thread heroes.

Yoga so pleased all is going so well with SnS.

Nora and Wine woo woo woo ... Wafting some in your direction and hoping like I don't sound like Halloween's come early

Well things are just so good with Alpha. No words for it, it's like a lovely dream. I just cannot believe I found such a wonderful man. I am totally loved up at the moment. Seeing him again tonight, going to take the dc bowling. I think I love this man but it just seems far too soon to be feeling like this so am keeping quiet about it

lovelybunchofcoconuts Sat 07-Sep-13 13:36:29

OWW that's splendid smile

Where/why has Ike gone?

brokenhearted55 Sat 07-Sep-13 13:53:18

What are the best sites other than eharmony.

I need to start again sad

scrazy Sat 07-Sep-13 13:57:29

Just place marking, still lurking and I enjoy reading all your success stories. I'm really busy atm so not dating at all.

I might have drunk text recently, I never do this normally so must have had one too many. Fortunately I woke up the next morning to replies of lovely to hear from you and can we meet up soon, so all OK grin

lovelybunchofcoconuts Sat 07-Sep-13 14:06:44

brokenh are you alright?
RE dating sites:
Are you in a city or the country?
Do you want to give eharmony a miss?

brokenhearted55 Sat 07-Sep-13 14:35:26

Not ok coconuts. I am in the capital

lovelybunchofcoconuts Sat 07-Sep-13 14:48:42

Brokenh sorry you aren't ok, anything we can do to help?
When I've had a crap time there is always someone on here who knows about it.
If you aren't ok are you sure you want to go Online dating again?
You need a thick skin for it.

From what I've learned on these threads there should be plenty of choice on London.
POF is busy but being free means there are a higher proportion of dishonest people.
OKC is also busy, their matching criteria mean some have had success.
Match is also busy and good.
Guardian Soulmates is good in cities (not much use if you like rurally) also depends on your politics.
My Single Friend reduces the possibility of meeting a nutter because they have found at least one person who is prepared to endorse them.

I will say it again though, are you sure you want to get out there now?

lovelybunchofcoconuts Sat 07-Sep-13 14:50:45

Sorry - in London not on London
and live rurally not like rurally.

Bant Sat 07-Sep-13 15:26:18

I don't think 'my single friend' (which strangely autocorrects to 'musing lefties') does guarantee that someone has a friend who can endorse them. I haven't looked, tbh, but surely it just needs a different email address, or at worst a different FB profile, address, or bank account details ; which would be possibly over the top.

Apart from the last one, all those are easy to fake. I could write a glowing recommendation about me in the name of Steve, a plumber from droitwich or lawyer from Barnsley, who I went to school with, and who is completely fictional, if I wanted to.

Match has got me most dates, OKC has got me better ones

KinNora Sat 07-Sep-13 15:34:02

Broken I can't add anything to the excellent advice Lovely has given you but are you sure that it might not be better to take a break and re-gather your strength first ?

Lovely re Ike - she was unjustly banished from MN while others who were utterly culpable still peddle their own particular brand of rubbish on the site.

lovelybunchofcoconuts Sat 07-Sep-13 15:39:38

Kin thanks, that's a bloody shame.
I liked Ike she was funny sad

KinNora Sat 07-Sep-13 15:43:23

Oh and 49 agree with OWW, Mr R&R represents a mythical zenith of dating perfection as far as I can see.

OWW it's so lovely to hear the way you talk about Alpha, warms the very cockles of my cynical old heart.

Just making arrangements for a date with STD Man and giving him health advice, I may start charging these men , or is that a whole new profession ?

KinNora Sat 07-Sep-13 15:45:07

Lovely yes it is, it's a huge shame.

I can pass on her okc details to anyone who wants to contact her, she does still read the thread from time to time.

Snapespeare Sat 07-Sep-13 15:45:25

Ugh, kids dad has descended for impromptu visit. He phoned last night saying he'd scored a spare train ticket, so could he stay overnight, which now means Tuesday. [Hmm] Have hidden the wine. 2/3rds of children delighted I'm irritated. He pays fuck-all maintenance, I have no cash and he's complaining that he's missed a gig he would have gone to on Thursday, but he'll be back up north.

Grr. angry

KinNora Sat 07-Sep-13 15:59:42

That sounds testing Snape ...

scrazy Sat 07-Sep-13 16:01:59

Kin grin re Ike.

Winefiend Sat 07-Sep-13 16:05:40

I think we should start a REINSTATE IKE petition. Bit wank that she's banned when you see some of the other horrendousness that goes on on this site.

lovelybunchofcoconuts Sat 07-Sep-13 16:18:18

Oh Snape no, no, no.
How is he with germy stuff?
If you contracted a fake stomach bug would that get rid of him?
Icky smell in his bed?
Fake fumigators appointment?
Does anyone have a sex mad, leg humping dog they can lend you? I may be clutching at straws here

At very least I would be asking for the gig money so you can feed his kids for the next few days.

Can't Ike just be back on under a different name/email address?

Bant Sat 07-Sep-13 16:19:17

I vote to reinstate ike, but my position is tenuous at times, given that I, y'know, disagree with people in an insulting way some times, by pointing out how ridiculous they're being.

Also Snape, can't you charge him bed and board?

Snapespeare Sat 07-Sep-13 16:21:39

I've said if he's staying until Tuesday he'll need to buy food for himself...

He's just asked if we have any salmon!

Told lovely nameless, who is lovely.

Snapespeare Sat 07-Sep-13 16:22:35

He's not getting a bed! he can have the sofa.

If things get too irritating, I can ship out to namelesses.

Bant Sat 07-Sep-13 16:24:35

Charge him sofa and salmon then. It would work out about the same.

KinNora Sat 07-Sep-13 16:26:41

Lovely I don't know if she can come back with a different email address, I'd assume so but the impression I get is that she was pretty unimpressed by the whole farcical series of events so might not be over keen to re-join (and apologies, Ike , if I'm putting words in your mouth and misrepresenting your viewpoint).

You being all peacocky again Bant ? wink

lovelybunchofcoconuts Sat 07-Sep-13 16:33:54

Kin then fair enough, I get it - but she is missed.

Snapespeare Sat 07-Sep-13 16:37:19

I miss ike too

Bant Sat 07-Sep-13 16:39:35

I'm not sure if its morally wrong to shake my tail feather at you whilst doing a scooby doo impression, Nora

MirandaWest Sat 07-Sep-13 16:41:16

I miss Ike. And find it hard to understand why other posters have been allowed to stay.

(And Bant I noticed you being v restrained on a thread with one of them recently and being turned on for what I could see was just because of who you are iyswim).

Snape that would drive me mad. 36 hours with ok ish XH was nearly enough to kill me tbh.

Winefiend Sat 07-Sep-13 16:47:27

Oh I forgot about Peacockgate grin

Snape All the very best of luck, I have a feeling you may need it. I would perhaps be tempted to ship out your kitchen knives to Namelessland also. Y'know, just in case tempation strikes when he requests Eggs Benedict tomorrow morn.

49howdidthathappen Sat 07-Sep-13 16:47:39

Its difficult Snape my mum took us every sunday to see my dad ( so he could play Mr Bountiful during those few hours) and he never paid a penny in maintenance.

I may have told my mum and 2 of her carers my plans for tonight. Oops!

Kin He has too many faults to list grin But plenty of good stuff too.

Aw come on Ike It aint the same without you.

Bant Sat 07-Sep-13 16:50:40

Does ike Facebook? (Yes I know I'm using it as a verb) I can't remember. The vaguely planned thread meeting might be fun for her, I can't remember where she is

49howdidthathappen Sat 07-Sep-13 16:51:30

We can have Soreen....

Snapespeare Sat 07-Sep-13 16:52:27

<sigh> I spent years driving them 25 miles and back (including on xmas day) so they could spend time with him and OW because he'd lost his licence due to drunk driving and never received a penny in petrol money.

They've all gone out for a walk to the shops. I'm watching antiques roadshow. Might have a glass of wine to dull my ire.

Winefiend Sat 07-Sep-13 16:53:19

And Angel Delight?

49howdidthathappen Sat 07-Sep-13 16:55:31

As long as its not Butterscotch!

Bant Sat 07-Sep-13 17:02:18

And miranda yes I learned a while ago that some people will never accept impartial advice as just that.

The problem is, seemingly everyone complains about how men or, in general, young people these days have a sense of entitlement. And then they complain that they have a problem with the world, with dating or something else, and the world doesn't change to suit them..

I'm a scientist. I'm not a very good one, but I'm passionate about what I do, and science in general, and one of the things you learn early is: look for the common theme. If I date for 5 years and always complain that the women are too tall, maybe it's that I have unreasonable expectations, or maybe it's just that I'm too short. In England I was almost always taller than the women I met - here it's only half the time. Personally I prefer to be a bit taller than them because I feel weird looking upwards when kissing.

So I can either only date shorter women, or I can buy platform shoes or I can move to Japan. Or England.

What I shouldn't do is complain over and over again about how tall the women are. The common theme is me being too short. So I try and work out how to fix it.

If I never get to sleep with anyone, no matter how many women I meet, then I should at some point have a tiny speck of introspection and realise that the common issue for all those women, who presumably are not celibate, is me. Maybe it's my aftershave, my clothes, my sense of superiority or the fact that I keep calling them 'snookums' on a first date - could be any of the above. Until I realise the problem may be with me, and my expectations, I'm never going to fix my problem

Ah well, it's been nice chatting to all of you. I'm going to go socialise with the young'uns and try to stop that DramaQueen from poking me again

Winefiend Sat 07-Sep-13 17:12:07

49 Strawberry [fruity]

Winefiend Sat 07-Sep-13 17:13:06

Oops grin

Winefiend Sat 07-Sep-13 17:19:33

Bant I don't think we were particularly complaining about the way the young uns tend to behave, more an observation. Hence why it isn't something myself (or the likes of hostess) took very seriously at all. Just a bit of fun grin A lot of the younger folk behave in ways that don't sit well with me, so I know it is in fact me and they will be suited to other folk who enjoy blokes who go to sunbeds and the '3 day text' rule and refer to each other as 'lad'. For a ONS, fine, otherwise, not my thing.

Bant Sat 07-Sep-13 17:21:20

Wine. I wasn't talking about anyone posting on the thread. It was just a generalised hypothetical discussion about dating behaviour and myopia.

KinNora Sat 07-Sep-13 17:21:32

No, Ike isn't on FB, I invited her to the meet up and I've told her again today that we want her back.

Now come on Bant tail feather shaking and Scooby Doo impressions, there's only so much a mere human can deal with without spontaneously combusting.

I too saw the incident to which Miranda referred and I thought you exercised frankly superhuman restraint.

Scientific rigour, and indeed logical thought processes are an alien concept to many people.

KinNora Sat 07-Sep-13 17:23:33

(Yeah, like I'm fucking logical. Ha !)

Bant Sat 07-Sep-13 17:23:54

Ree hee hee (shakashakashaka) ree hee hee

Wagonwheels Sat 07-Sep-13 17:24:33

Hello new thread smile

Just a-place markin'. All good with the footballer grin.

Hope some of you have dates this evening!

Winefiend Sat 07-Sep-13 17:27:55

Bant Oh I know, I just felt the need to clarify. I also saw the thread/incident Miranda mentioned hmm

Oi Nora, you still haven't told us where STD man gets his nickname from. Colin Chlamydia?

KinNora Sat 07-Sep-13 17:37:16

You are incorrigible Bant

KinNora Sat 07-Sep-13 17:38:38

Wine I'm seeing him next week, I need to stop thinking of him as STD Man.

Winefiend Sat 07-Sep-13 17:54:29

Nora Aaaah but STD Man is a beautiful pet name flowers

ravish me, STD Man

KinNora Sat 07-Sep-13 18:01:21

I'm willing to bet he ain't the ravishing type Wine - GSM, say no more.

49howdidthathappen Sat 07-Sep-13 18:28:41

How did he end up as STD man? Kin

KinNora Sat 07-Sep-13 18:32:20

His surname could be construed as a symptom of a sexually transmitted disease, 49 (only if you're as easily amused as I am)

lovelybunchofcoconuts Sat 07-Sep-13 18:40:27

Kin Mr Knobrot? Minge-itch?

lovelybunchofcoconuts Sat 07-Sep-13 18:43:30

Pustule? It's Mr Pustule, isn't it?

KinNora Sat 07-Sep-13 18:45:17

Close, it's Charlie Chancre.

KinNora Sat 07-Sep-13 18:46:23

(I wouldn't search for chancre on google images, by the way, might put you off your tea )

lovelybunchofcoconuts Sat 07-Sep-13 18:49:34

<boak emoticon>

Winefiend Sat 07-Sep-13 18:51:05

Ah. GSM. No more information required Nora hmm

What are the odds of seeing highly stunning eligible bachelors on a dog walk this eve? Off I go, time waits for no highly impatient Westie grin

ALittleStranger Sat 07-Sep-13 18:55:50

I do maintain it's possible to get a good ravishing via GSM.

But having dated only through that site I also think there's a reason I never agree with those threads which claim all men on OD are sex pests I wish.

And in relation to Broken's earlier Q, I would definitely try GSM if you're London based.

KinNora Sat 07-Sep-13 19:21:53

I was terribly disappointed in GSM, Stranger, I'd assumed it'd be right up my street - au contraire, nothing was even in the vicinity of my street, let alone up it.

49howdidthathappen Sat 07-Sep-13 19:22:31

I'm going in grin

lovelybunchofcoconuts Sat 07-Sep-13 19:30:20

I'm with Kin GSM only had a handful of men within 30 miles of me and that's before I'd even started to be picky.
So I gave up before I even started.

KinNora Sat 07-Sep-13 19:44:54

Ooh ooh go 49 ! ( I'm really quite ridiculously excited - I may cry if this happens )

Winefiend Sat 07-Sep-13 20:01:21

It is quite sad how excited I am about 49's impending proposal grin

Park update: no stunning men. One man who looked suspiciously like a sex offender and a couple with a little kiddy and a ball (which twatdog was kept WELL away from as he has a tendency to steal.and burst little kids' footballs). Did bump into my (lovely) exH though and his dog grin

MirandaWest Sat 07-Sep-13 20:08:26

Am also excited about 49s proposal grin

lovelybunchofcoconuts Sat 07-Sep-13 20:22:31

49 very exciting, I'm thinking of you.

kittykat10 Sat 07-Sep-13 20:25:40

Just feeling lonely tonight , saw my ex and his child with the gf earlier that not helped plus not spoke to another human all day.
And missed seeing Mr car this weekend last few weekends been fun , we have texted today but all of a sudden I feel real low .

KinNora Sat 07-Sep-13 21:18:23

I'm sorry Kitty, I think that can be Saturday night/weekend feeling when you feel like everyone else is having a better time than you, can you phone someone in RL or watch something entertaining on the telly ? I know how crappy it is to feel like that.

kittykat10 Sat 07-Sep-13 21:24:49

I don't have any one to call.

To be honest I have no friends no real world ones.

Sorry

Snapespeare Sat 07-Sep-13 21:40:45

come on 49! grin

BloomingRose Sat 07-Sep-13 21:58:48

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KinNora Sat 07-Sep-13 22:16:12

Kitty, what are you apologising for ? Life is very hard sometimes, almost impossible to endure but it will get better.

Kirstywirsty Sun 08-Sep-13 08:22:07

Hey kitty hope you are feeling a bit better this morning .. I often think a Saturday feels as though everyone else is out partying and I'm the only one not!

Do you have DCs? Organising play dates is a good way to make friends with other mums .. And a lot of people on here swear by meet up as a good way to make new friends

Morning everyone smile

49 well......??????

kittykat10 Sun 08-Sep-13 09:04:35

Hi Kristy.

No I don't have any kids , people I used to be friends with at work I get the odd text but it me who sends the first one.
Sad to say but no one , I spend every day in my room , I have a dog but she hopeless with other dogs so I walk her alone.
Not worked since November so every day same.

KinNora Sun 08-Sep-13 09:53:48

Kitty - you said that you used to work in healthcare (I don't know which field) have you looked at volunteering, either in your own area of experience or something completely different ? That way you'd get out of the house, meet other people and in addition to helping others, lift your own mood.

kittykat10 Sun 08-Sep-13 10:02:58

Kin

I was a nurse. Tried to join an agency but my registration run out and need a crb check but I can't afford it .
I can't take the risk th a t I pay it and then not get work.
I live fairly rural area so hospitals fair distance , I get 70 a week that has to cover bills housing ext.

I'll be ok just Fed up

Winefiend Sun 08-Sep-13 10:15:08

kitty You're signing on aren't you? If so, in which area? I'm going to PM you in a bit. One of my colleagues has a client who was a nurse in a similar position and managed to access funding to renew nursing registration.

Alternatively, like Nora said, volunteering is a good idea, our local NHS Trusts take on vols twice a year and this month is one of those times. I spent a few hours with one of my ladies on Thurs going through this and was pleasantly surprised at the opportunities available.

Another option is to contact your local Trusts and find out if any are planning mass recruitment. If they are, ask them to confirm this to you by email, take this to the Jobcentre and ask if they will fund your registration. Often JCP will fund training if there is an almost guaranteed job as it is mutually beneficial - you get a job and the JCP Advisor gets a job outcome. If your Advisor says no and does not give good reason, you are perfectly within your rights to request someone else (best done in writing).

Winefiend Sun 08-Sep-13 10:16:29

kitty Also, similarly, ask one of the agencies to do similar re: guaranteed jobs.

KinNora Sun 08-Sep-13 10:18:46

Ok then what about finding an organisation to volunteer for ? I think that if you are a naturally empathetic person then it makes life very difficult if you can't express that part of your personality and, speaking for myself, I'm much happier when I've not got too much time to dwell on my various problems.

KinNora Sun 08-Sep-13 10:20:20

Wine - look at us two being all professional and mature and shit - arf

Winefiend Sun 08-Sep-13 10:21:48

Ah and one more thing kitty, re: dog. In my area there is a very active forum which has a pets section. Quite often, from what I've seen, they have meet ups even for dogs which struggle to socialise. What kind of behaviour is he displaying when he's out? When you're earning again you could look at training classes or 1:1 classes. I'm very lucky insofar as I can take mine anywhere (bar near footballs) but my friend had a little lad who was aggressive (a rescue) and it made things really difficult and walks really quite stressful at times.

kittykat10 Sun 08-Sep-13 10:22:28

I'm in Midlands .
I have two possible interviews if I can pass the maths exam.
My job center is 10 miles away so cost me about 4 pound to go , I've emailed to see if I can get travel funding for interviews but not hopeful.

I don't want to go back to where I worked as I was bullied.
I did get a job I n Jan but it was withdrawn to previous boss reference.

I did nothing wrong but wasn't supported well in role.

Winefiend Sun 08-Sep-13 10:23:04

Nora I know, LOLZ! grin Makes a change from STDs and Angel Delight innit blud.

Winefiend Sun 08-Sep-13 10:26:50

kitty Another good reason to get volunteering then. A nice reference for you. Www.do-it.org, unvaluable for volunteering opps.

When you go to JCP next, take a copy of that email (as they probably won't have replied) and do not leave until you speak to someone about it. Don't let them fob you off. When you do find work, it is definitely worth considering relocating for a nice fresh start and more opportunities.

Winefiend Sun 08-Sep-13 10:27:36

*invaluable

kittykat10 Sun 08-Sep-13 10:28:12

She can appear aggressive but I think she picks up on my anxiety issues in the home she lovely well behaved brilliant with t he other dogs we have.
I've muzzled her now for her own protection but due the breed ppl avoid I d US .

Winefiend Sun 08-Sep-13 10:31:01

kitty East or West Midlands? If West then they are the same Lead Contractor as us, which means they'll probably work with single folk (we were originally supposed to just work with families but that changed).

Winefiend Sun 08-Sep-13 10:34:04

kitty you've hit the nail on the head there. When you're out, if you think about any anxiety travelling straight down the lead to the dog, that's a good way to see the situation. Get on looking for dog meet ups.

I know what you mean re: breed. My friends have an absolutely beautiful Staffy (one of my dogs' birds, the Casanova he is) who is soft as shit but they are terrified to let her offlead for the same reason - other people.

OhWesternWind Sun 08-Sep-13 10:37:49

Wrote a great long post and just lost it. Gist was:-

49 all agog and vicariously excited here

Broken if you're not on top form, OD can be difficult. I've always used Match and PoF in combination, kept me well supplied with dates, many of them engineers (which is not necessarily a bad thing)

Snape shipping out to N's sounds like a cracking plan. Salmon my arse.

Kitty weekends and holidays can be really hard. Sorry you're feeling a bit down.

Nora purleeeese rename this poor bloke! He's going to be the love of your life maybe and all we'll be able to think about is suppurating sores.

Hello Rose lovely!

Bant as my grandma used to say, there's none so blind as those who will not see.

Hello everyone else!

Wonderful afternoon/evening out with Alpha and dc yesterday. He's great with them, they really like him. All is lovely beyond belief. He's coming over this afternoon too grin. I feel so very, very lucky to have met him.

kittykat10 Sun 08-Sep-13 10:43:50

West Midlands,
I can't relocate my dad is elderly so I need to be close by.
She is a staff as well , she scared of all sorts.

Sorry to hi Jack post !

Bant Sun 08-Sep-13 11:06:07

Sorry you're feeling down Kitty - I think others are giving better advice than I can though.
Nora - I agree with OWW
OWW - I'm chuffed for you - glad he gets on with the DC

I went out last night to meet some friends at a beer festival, and ran into MedStudent, who I dated twice back in March (I think). Several of us moved on to another place and as the evening went on, everyone paired off with each other, apart from me and the MedStudent. She got drunker and drunker, louder and louder (she's American, which meant she was pretty damn loud to begin with) and started telling the others how much she liked me, could one of them give her my phone number, then she came over and grabbed me and tried to stick her tongue down my throat, and it was horribly unpleasant and awkward.

At one point I was chatting to a cute German girl and MedStudent decided to put herself between the two of us and try and warn the other girl off with eye contact. So that didn't go too well

I didn't find her particularly attractive anyway and she was irritating everyone the whole time -stealing drinks from other groups of people etc, and then she told me she couldn't stop thinking about me and she'd never met anyone she liked as much as me, never felt that connection with anyone else. And it was just yeuch.

Everyone else left, so I said I'd walk her home and she slurred 'really? I thought you didn't want to have sex with me?' - so I had to explain that 'walking her home' meant just that, as she was drunk enough to be falling off the pavement in front of cars. And so I put her in a taxi instead.

Started out a nice evening then I just felt pissed off and vaguely unjustifiably guilty at the end of it.

KinNora Sun 08-Sep-13 11:54:17

I think you'll find, OWW that Alpha is very,very lucky to have found you...

Where's bloody 49, the big tease ?

I am willing to put good money on Charlie (formerly STD Man, I'm deferring to your delicate sensibilities) not being the love of my life. One word - 'beige'.

Bant - a medical student in crass, insensitive, boorish behaviour shocker, never seen that before.

MirandaWest Sun 08-Sep-13 12:16:20

Where is 49? I am hoping in a loved-up heap somewhere smile

KinNora Sun 08-Sep-13 12:23:00

The nearest Bride Be Lovely ?

brokenhearted55 Sun 08-Sep-13 13:25:02

Signed back up to e harmony. but feeling like crap though. I'm so sick of being nice to guys and.getting treated like crap in return.

49howdidthathappen Sun 08-Sep-13 13:53:56

YES grin YES grin YES grin

ALittleStranger Sun 08-Sep-13 13:57:04

Broken I feel for you, you sound so low. Do you want to deconstruct what "nice" and "crap" mean in your situation? Sometimes what feels like being nice is trying to hard and reading the signs that someone isn't worth it.

Bant Sun 08-Sep-13 13:57:05

God there are some arrogant buggers out there. I got a message on OKC from a local woman, and the site says we're 37% matched, 7% friends, 60% enemies. Plus her photo was impossible to see what she looks like.

Now I don't build my life around dating algorithms, but I have noticed that if someone is highly matched with me, say 90%, we're more likely to get on well if we meet. That's no guarantee of spark, or chemistry, but at least we wouldn't spend the whole time arguing.

I respond to the mail saying thanks but I don't think we're suited. You're a nonsmoking teetotal religious vegetarian who likes rock climbing, I'm none of the above. And specifically she said 'yuck, smokers are horrible'

So then she comes back and argues we don't have to be perfect, she could forgive my smoking and drinking. I respond I'm fine as I am thanks, I don't need to be forgiven by someone I've never met.

She then sends through her Facebook name and says 'look at my photos and see what you've rejected'

And I do, and she looks like a wolverine. Not the superhero, the mammal. Small beady eyes and big teeth.

I thought I should just leave it rather than tell her though.

Bant Sun 08-Sep-13 13:57:39

49? Come on more details

ALittleStranger Sun 08-Sep-13 13:59:54

Bant you've misunderstood. "Look what you've rejected" actually meant "I'll be clawing through your front door tonight". She's given you notice, start running.

KinNora Sun 08-Sep-13 14:03:08

Oh 49 I'm so pleased for you, congratulations to you both. Cough, I seem to have filled up slightly flowers xxx

KinNora Sun 08-Sep-13 14:05:03

It's all small mammals with you, isn't it Bant ? Are you Terry Nutkins ?

49howdidthathappen Sun 08-Sep-13 14:07:01

Bant He wants to marry me too. I have never been happier grin

It was just amazing being back where we first met. We danced all night. I got pretty drunk. He said 'We have had our ups and downs, I wouldn't have missed a minute smile I said I wanted to walk home, still hadn't asked the question. Was passing a bench, I asked him to sit down, kissed him, then asked him. He said YES grin

KinNora Sun 08-Sep-13 14:11:16

That's so lovely 49 , may your life together be full of every happiness.

Bant Sun 08-Sep-13 14:11:29

49 that's fantastic - I'm so pleased for you both. Congratulations.

Aww I'm all misty eyed now.

ALittleStranger Sun 08-Sep-13 14:13:22

49 that's wonderful, congratulations. And I love that you decided you wanted it and just asked for it. You're my new MN role model.

49howdidthathappen Sun 08-Sep-13 14:13:34

He was a little shocked, knowing my views on the subject, ownership and all that. He asked me if I wanted to keep my name. I said I preferred his. A good old Scottish name smile

KinNora Sun 08-Sep-13 14:22:34

<sobs into bacon butty>

kittykat10 Sun 08-Sep-13 14:23:43

Do we have a wedding ?

49howdidthathappen Sun 08-Sep-13 14:32:44

We do Kitty Feel the need to pinch myself smile

Winefiend Sun 08-Sep-13 14:36:27

49 that just sounds absolutely perfect. Time to get planning! grin

Bant Oh dear, 2 run ins (one rl, one OD) in one weekend. Last night sounded fairly horrendous. Reminded me slightly of my little incident with my desperate mate the other week. I just don't get the chucking yourself at folk thing. Obviously this is because I am the Queen of Pissed up Dignity.

kitty, I haven't forgotten about you btw, I will find out which sub-contractor you need to contact when I'm at work tomorrow.

I am a little whirlwhind of activity today. Cooking and studying. Yes, ACTUAL STUDYING not because I have an exam in 5 weeks and have 8 chapters to read, an essay to do and revision to start, oh no

Winefiend Sun 08-Sep-13 14:36:47

*whirlwind

OhWesternWind Sun 08-Sep-13 14:39:32

Oh 49 that is just wonderful. I have honestly got a tear in my eye reading your news. So very, very pleased for both of you. Congratulations!

brokenhearted55 Sun 08-Sep-13 14:41:51

Stranger: nice as in I give people the benefit of the doubt. I'm kind, easy going, never demanding or jealous, I'm not high maintenance or a diva, I am just happy to get to know someone and see what happens but I get rejected for the silliest reasons. this time by someone who didn't even try to get to know me.

I'm pretty too and I don't play games.

Winefiend Sun 08-Sep-13 14:42:28

Be you next at the rate you're going with lovely Alpha OWW grin

Secretservice Sun 08-Sep-13 14:46:02

49. Congratulations!!! flowers. We need dates, venues,catering. Vicarious happiness needs details!

kitty sorry your feeling so low. Nothing to add to the advice from the all-new professional Nora and Wine except to say you were around when I hit the doldrums a couple if weeks ago and it does change. Particularly if you keep posting on here.

Oww just grin

Bant sorry she spoilt your night, but think of how rough she'll be feeling this morning!

Waves back at Rose

So having failed to take the advice to make it very clear to Poet that I was no longer interested, I received a text saying how much he missed chatting to me - less than 48hrs after our last conversation. I didn't reply, so surely, now he's got the message!

Otherwise, all very quiet on date front - I'm beginning to get very sceptical about this woo stuff!

Winefiend Sun 08-Sep-13 14:47:44

broken It isn't you. Your description of yourself above there I could happily apply to myself (and probably lots of others on this thread) but I have also attracted a series of knobbers this past year. The one thing I have learned recently however is that I am sometimes TOO willing to give folk the benefit of the doubt. I partly blame my career for that one (or perhaps that's what makes me good at what I do) but regardless, gradually, I am getting better at rejecting shitey behaviour.

Have a wee look back re: the conversation about feeling 'obliged' to reply to texts. Even with friends I generally feel like I have to be the last to reply, even if I find it a chore, have fuck all to say and can't be arsed, or I'll feel guilty. Sometimes people can take advantage of that.

Winefiend Sun 08-Sep-13 14:54:52

secret Aah I would just bite the bullet and tell him tbh. It's much less cruel to be honest than leave him hanging I think (not properly honest obviously, just something like 'I don't think we're very compatible but you are lovely, I wish you well blah blah').

Then he can scamper off and write a lovely poem about you grin

ALittleStranger Sun 08-Sep-13 14:55:26

Broken it sounds like you might have different expectations of what dating is, compared to the guys you're seeing. It is OK to decide not to see someone again, even for what seems like a silly reason especially as people are not always truthful and 99% of the time the reason is they're just not feeling it".

OD is a sweet shop and you should be using that to your advantage. There is a balance between giving someone time to reveal themselves and flogging a dead horse, but you shouldn't feel you should be content to see what develops when there are so many options out there. I do think if you're both trying to make it work and prove they're good enough from the beginning that you'll store up problems down the line.

That said I do also think maybe men are more inclined to expect to feel an unreasonable degree of smitten after one date or two, but that is skin off their nose, not yours.

KinNora Sun 08-Sep-13 14:55:27

Yes Broken, what my enormously mature colleague Ms Wine said.

OWW I have you and Alpha next down the aisle after Snape and Nameless and Tigsy and Mr Tigsy ( I can only remember his real name at the moment ).

Winefiend Sun 08-Sep-13 15:03:17

Nora balance has been restored. As a result of the outrageously sensible nature of my posts today (and spending the day doing actual adult things around the house, rather than waking up in a young mans' sweaty bedroom or slowly rotting in a hungover heap on the sofa) I decided that this may be down to Nutella deficiency.

Cue mad dash to the kitchen ramming it down my neck before my lodger and her bloke walked straight through the back door to the sight of me spooning hazelnutty pleasure straight from the jar down my neck.

brokenhearted55 Sun 08-Sep-13 15:05:47

He told me that people generally don't fall for him until they've know him well. That he hasn't had any luck with online dating as he is too shy.

Then after barely knowing me he writes me off as he's not head over heels for me. after a few dates how the Fuck can you be head over heels. you're just warming up at that stage.

Some guys expectations are unrealistic. They honestly expect it to be love at first sight? It takes time to know if someone is right for you.

Bant Sun 08-Sep-13 15:06:41

Broken -I second what Stranger says.

It's good that you're nice to people, if everyone was like that the world would be a much better place. But you have to develop your filter to work out whether someone is worth being nice to.

Take my recent example, the MedStudent. We met for a first date, got drunk and snogged a lot. She wasn't right for me, in various ways - too loud, brash, bitey. But I saw her again for a second date to see if it was just nerves, and she was as bad as the first time, so I stopped seeing her with an 'it's not you it's me, lack of spark' message.

I didn't feel obliged to see her again, didn't try to find the good in her to make up for the bad. I didn't feel it's better to be with just anyone rather than alone, so I broke it off earlier and moved on.

You don't have to put up with people's shitty behaviour just to be with someone, and you shouldn't be trying to please people who will take advantage. Drop them, take a deep breath, eat some ice cream and move on. There are decent men out there who are worthy of you, it's just that they get snapped up quickly when they try OD. The bad ones keep circulating as they don't go off the market for long, so there seem to be more of them. Avoid.

Winefiend Sun 08-Sep-13 15:10:38

broken He sounds like a grade A penis. A headfucky one that doesn't have a clue what he wants at that (with a dash of insecurity probably helped along by a few rejections).

I think it's folk in general to be honest. For me personally, I would shit myself if someone declared live after three dates and most well functioning men that I know would too. Declaring your love for someone so soon is rather alarming.

Disengage and onto the next. Or perhaps some sofa time? A bit of sofa time does the world of good I am finding the ONS with young men don't count

Winefiend Sun 08-Sep-13 15:11:50

*love

KinNora Sun 08-Sep-13 15:25:50

broken sounds like you've got lucky, he's got a strong whiff of the ' I'm completely off my chump and if you were landed with me I'd have you permanently perched on the Relationships Board for advice on my fuckwit behaviour' about him.

brokenhearted55 Sun 08-Sep-13 15:43:30

Yeah. we had 6 dates and were sleeping together. which makes it harder.

Unlike bant our first impressions were wrong. we were both shy and then on date 2-3 really opened up.

He was lovely to me. not feeling it? He couldve fooled me.

lovelybunchofcoconuts Sun 08-Sep-13 16:01:48

grin waves to all grin grin grin
49 wow, congratulations, brilliant. Now tell us everything grin

Ooooh broken I second Nora you have had a lucky escape, I also wonder if a few weeks on the sofa would be a good thing?
I don't know anything about you but you sound really fed up and how about doing something(s) that make you happy and will build you up before you get out there again?

Snapespeare Sun 08-Sep-13 16:13:30

49

envy

grin

Congratulations to you both. Lovely news! smile x

lubeybooby England Sun 08-Sep-13 16:23:40

Congratulations 49, that's sooooo lovely! grin

OhWesternWind Sun 08-Sep-13 17:11:29

I don't know that it's all that fair to write him off as an arse. Granted, the phrase "head over heels" is a bit odd, but after five dates or so you have a good idea about whether there's the potential for things to develop or not. And if he didn't feel there was, it's fine for him not to want to take things further.

I did something similar with a bloke I was seeing earlier this year, after five dates too - perfectly nice man (apart from the drumming), could have carried on and drifted along for ages but it just wasn't quite right, so I plucked up my courage and finished it. And I'm incredibly glad I did, or I wouldn't have met Alpha a few weeks later.

You can tell the difference when you meet someone that you click with.

Sorry, Broken, I really don't want to be unsupportive, but there really is no point spending a lot of time on trying to make something work when it's not quite right. It's not you, it's not him, you just didn't work together. I'm so sorry you feel low and disappointed, and it's hard when this kind of thing happens, but in the long run it's freed you up to meet someone who is genuinely right for you. It will happen.

DadfromUncle Sun 08-Sep-13 17:12:54

49 - huge congratuations.
broken I have to think a bit before posting - because I want to be some help (!) I rekindled a relationship from my teenage years a while back - the truth is, I was so crazy about her back in the day that I found it hard to accept I didn't feel it second time around. She was really upset when I finally plucked up enough courage to end it, and there's hardly a day goes by when I don't feel guilty about it. What I'm getting at is that not everyone is 100% certain about stuff - and I bet my ex (second time) felt a bit like you - I was nice to her because it's what I do (and as Bant says it would be great if we could all be kind to each other) , but that's not a measure of my feelings - I am nice to strangers.

I can't offer advice except to agree with others, you have had a lucky escape although I realise it won't feel like that.

DadfromUncle Sun 08-Sep-13 17:19:07

Went to the pub and for meal with friends for the first time in ages last night - one thing I am sure of is that I am still finding plenty of women attractive, which is sort of reassuring I suppose.

kittykat10 Sun 08-Sep-13 17:27:09

Omg that's so lovely just made Me cry !

Thank you wine !!!!!!!

Bant Sun 08-Sep-13 17:27:18

In fact, to add to DFU's comment - the reason MedStudent said she liked me so much is that I was so nice to her. She saw that as me being boyfriend material. Unfortunately in that case, she's not girlfriend material for me.

I'm generally nice to people, whether I'm dating them or not. If I do date someone, I'm going to be nice to them by default - and that may make her see me as wonderful and the perfect man - but it doesn't mean that I'm falling for her. It just means I'm trying to be a decent person.

Although if I remember, this guy was the one who was ignoring you much of the first date, had to leave after a while and kept checking his watch. That sounds unlovely to me. I remember saying you should maybe give him a second chance because you were unsure. Maybe ignore me next time and go with your gut instinct. If he's not trying hard to impress you, he's not worth your time.

Sometimes we meet people on dates who we think are great but they don't think it back. Sometimes they don't make that realisation until several dates in. It's hard, but it happens. And we all have the right to choose to drop them too, even if they're really into us.

MirandaWest Sun 08-Sep-13 18:08:37

Congratulations 49 grin

Have been having a lovely birthday - got breakfast in bed, played card games and went out for a picnic and played football. Mr Nice fits in very well with the three of us which is very lovely smile

I would like to live with him sooner than 4 years time...

Bant Sun 08-Sep-13 18:11:22

Oh I forgot, happy birthday Miranda

superstarheartbreaker Sun 08-Sep-13 18:20:56

Hi all. Please give me a huge kick up the arse. Since I split up with my last serious bf about three months I have sex on the first date with two men. Yesterday had a lovely date with a very handsome man. I told him straight off that I didn't do it on a first date but I'm afraid to say he literally charmed the pants off me. We didn't have full sex as we had no condoms and he said he wanted to come round again before next weekend but no text today. I SHALL NOT TEXT FIRST.
I do really like him but I hate all this cat and mouse bullshit. I find it very hard to keep my hands off someone if the chemistry is strong and yesterday it was literally crackling away between us. Bugger. I have a date lined up for next Sunday with someone else (arranged a while ago) so if this dosn't work out I have options . Am I too easy?

Winefiend Sun 08-Sep-13 18:24:25

Ooh happy happy birthday miranda cake wine

Bant Sun 08-Sep-13 18:28:28

No superstar you're not. But if you have sex on the first date, it doesn't give you much chance to weed out the blokes who are just looking for sex.

Fine, if you're just looking for that too, but be prepared to not hear from most of them again. Some will just never call, some will only see you as a fuckbuddy, it's just going to harm your chances a bit in finding a LTR if that's what you want.

Winefiend Sun 08-Sep-13 18:30:04

superstar, if you are easy then lord knows what that makes me grin. Absolutely no shame in sex on the first date, in fact i am pretty sure (correct me if i'm wrong 49) our very own lovebugs 49 and Mr R&R went for it on the first date and look how that has turned out.

If the chemistry is there, it's there. However, if he's a knobber who wants to play games or get his leg over, he'd do that whether you slept with him on the first or fiftieth date. Women are allowed to enjoy (sometimes meaningless) sex too - always remember that. All that 'nice girls don't' rubbish can quite frankly fuck right off.

KinNora Sun 08-Sep-13 18:34:24

I'm so sorry Miranda I completely forgot, happy birthday wine cake flowers

superstarheartbreaker Sun 08-Sep-13 18:36:09

Thanks so much Winefield. It really does sort the men from the boys I guess. Still have all that Rules shit embedded in my consciousness. He is lovely; we didn't stop talking, he asked me lots of questions, kept picking bits of fluff of my jumper as an excue to touch me etc. Very warm vibes but now; no sodding text. Do ypou think if there is no text by Wednesday dump and move on or leave on back burner and move on?

Bant Sun 08-Sep-13 18:37:28

I disagree with wine just a bit here. Some men will disappear as soon as they've shagged, whether the first or 50th date.

Some though will give up and try someone easier if they can't get you into bed in the first couple of dates.

superstarheartbreaker Sun 08-Sep-13 18:38:37

What I found with this one (and what is a bit of an alrm bell) is that he did start talking about sexual preferences. On a first date (aswell as all the usual getting to know you stuff) Hmmmmm. I need to be more careful.

OhWesternWind Sun 08-Sep-13 18:50:58

Happy birthday Miranda and enjoy la bella Italia next week. cake wine

Winefiend Sun 08-Sep-13 18:51:03

Ah Bant that's what I meant, just waiting for the shag then onto the next conquest - be it date one or fifty. Sorry, my brain is addled this eve. An entire day of cognitive psych has burst my brain (there's a joke in there somewhere).

superstar See how it goes. The sexual prefs stuff is a little forward but them again if you both felt major chemistry it may have felt natural to him. It depends on how it made you feel. Creeped out? Uncomfortable? Erm, excited? tried v hard not to be vile there

I think, regardless of what I've said above re: sex on first dates, I would let him get back to you. Normally I would say go for it and text in a couple of days but when there's sex involved I would expect a bit of politeness on the man's side. Which is very hypocritical of me.and about as old fashioned as I get.

lovelybunchofcoconuts Sun 08-Sep-13 18:56:43

Happy Birthday Miranda grin

superstarheartbreaker Sun 08-Sep-13 19:00:12

It did make me feel excited...if I felt creeped out I wouldn't have done it. However, mabe hindsight will change my mind.

Winefiend Sun 08-Sep-13 19:10:45

superstar Did you have a good time? (Yes). Did you enjoy the date? (Yes). Did you enjoy his company? (Yes).

Therefore, wait and see what happens. If he doesn't text, it is almost certainly his loss, he isn't what you hoped and you got a nice night and some (hopefully) excellent sex. You also have a date lined up soon with someone else.

It is quite hard sometimes when you meet someone and have lots in common and the sex is good but nothing comes of it, because it seems so rare that you meet someone you are matched that well with. I really struggled with this until a few months ago and it led to me tolerating some atrocious behaviour from Oor Ken as post-ex, I thought it'd be impossible to meet someone with the same outlook/interests (as it turned out this only extended to musical interests). However, post Oor Ken I have actually met 2 men who have. Sadly I'm not ready for a relationship but it is nice to know that they exist.

Relax, have some wine and see what happens.

OhWesternWind Sun 08-Sep-13 19:24:16

Another lovely afternoon with Alpha, just had a brew together and a bit of snogging. He's away most of the week again but we should be able to meet up Wednesday.

I would love to be next on the list Nora and Wine but I'm trying very, very hard not to get too carried away

kittykat10 Sun 08-Sep-13 19:30:24

For wine , plus everyone.

Bit brighter now tried to be busy today, bit of of hope in registration front ! ,due to help here,if I really do worry over it , I worked hard to get degree don't won't to loose it , the boss who I do blame well
I knew she was a hard face cow but we'll, lol saw a mum today I used to see as a client today she said misses my approach lol so must of done something right.
Dating front,

Mr car not sure texted him about picnic for next week , it be very basic but he travels to see me so don't want to take advantage but not sure the yes meant the to it or to yeah to butty suggestion , well see.

Winefiend Sun 08-Sep-13 19:37:10

kitty good good! Wrt Mr Car, you could do an amazing picnic really cheaply. I made a huuuuuge potato salad today that would probably feed 6 and it most likely cost me about 3 quid as the potatoes and bacon were on offer grin If baking is your bag (it most certainly isn't mine!) you could cheaply whip up a good sponge or go with a lovely cheesecake (which even I can tackle).

Winefiend Sun 08-Sep-13 19:41:19

Oh and OWW, you are well within your rights to get carried away, it all sounds really lovely and actually makes me really hopeful (and stories from the likes of 49, kirsty, Tigsy, yoga, lubey and any other loved ups I've forgotten) for when I'm ready stop being a stubborn auld bastard loving being selfish and mememe far too much grin

Winefiend Sun 08-Sep-13 19:46:19

How could I forget snameless grin

superstarheartbreaker Sun 08-Sep-13 19:46:32

The sex wasn't great as we didn't have any condoms and I therefore felt very frustrated...piv didn't happen. I rekon if it did then it would be great but some guys are very shallow. We had a lovely naked cuddle, snogs and stroking session. along with some oral sex which was nice but we both definately wanted more!

49howdidthathappen Sun 08-Sep-13 20:07:19

Happy Birthday Miranda Mr Nice may not last the four years smile

Pleased to hear you are feeling happier Kitty

OWW Things sound bloody great for you and Alpha.

Superstar Yes I did jump into bed with Mr R&R the first night. I definitely lead the way though, he was trying very hard to be a gentleman.

Mr R&R has been texting as usual. So I haven't scared him off. Phew!

OhWesternWind Sun 08-Sep-13 20:15:47

49 MrR&R is probably the happiest man in England tonight - scared off my arse grin

Have you started making plans yet? This is such wonderful stuff, so very happy for you both.

MirandaWest Sun 08-Sep-13 20:26:33

I am very sure Mr R&R is very happy smile

Have you got a vague date in mind?

49howdidthathappen Sun 08-Sep-13 20:43:04

No plans as yet. As a pair of 'not the marrying kind', guess we are both a tad shocked!

He has just texted me 'I love you so much it scares me. In a good way'.
All is well. All is fanfuckingtastic grin

Snapespeare Sun 08-Sep-13 20:43:53

Happy birthday miranda hope you've had a lovely day!

kitty glad you're feeling a bit brighter! It sounds like a very difficult situation for you. I've been thinking about you today. We've all been lonely from time to time. I don't have anything better or other to suggest than the very good advice upthread. I tend to be of the 'nail on a smile' school of thought and looking for joy in little things. It is difficult. It gets better.

Back from lovely afternoon at namelesses. Watched a film. Had sex. (Not necessarily in that order.) told him 49 was engaged...just to subtly plant the thought that people meet their future DH/DW online. Not quite sure that sunk in. hmm

And XP got dumped by his gf today BY TEXT. [horrors!] so dating MNers of WoScotland, be wary. hmm

Winefiend Sun 08-Sep-13 20:50:50

superstar Ah I forgot about the condoms issue. Still, I am sure he enjoyed himself regardless!

It does make me think that perhaps if he was just out for a shag he'd have been well prepared....? (Depends on how he was about the no condom-no piv thing I guess).

rubbishfamily333 Sun 08-Sep-13 20:51:19

Hey hope everyone has had a good weekend!

I just wanted to ask some advice, I was talking to a guy on POF a few days ago, only swapped a few messages, he contacted me first and I replied. But I sent the last message and havnt heard from him. I added him to my favourites and can see he's online now. Do you think I should message him again, he is very good looking and I want to, but I'm fed up of all these guys disappearing on me hmm

49howdidthathappen Sun 08-Sep-13 20:57:16

OMG I am engaged!!!!!!! Hadn't even thought of that blush

Seed is planted Snape Job done smile

Oh your poor ex <laughs head off>

rubbishfamily333 Sun 08-Sep-13 21:00:21

49 wow congratulations grin

49howdidthathappen Sun 08-Sep-13 21:01:29

Rubbish I wouldn't. He hasn't even had the grace to reply. I need a man with manners.

Snapespeare Sun 08-Sep-13 21:12:08

Nine months they'd been seeing each other and she dumps him by text.

I like her already! grin

kittykat10 Sun 08-Sep-13 21:13:07

49

I'm so chuffed for you ,

As for picnic he said yes so pleased even if it buttys ( thank God for family salad patch ) n need big Brolly , it not Sat In front of tv .

Will try to do more tomorrow, even if if it just planning pickle making

Thank you all

Nice to k n ow ppl there

KinNora Sun 08-Sep-13 21:35:28

That's fantastic Kitty, you sound so much better.

lovelybunchofcoconuts Sun 08-Sep-13 21:43:40

Rubbish don't text him, remember you are the prize

Wagonwheels Sun 08-Sep-13 21:44:02

Many congratulations 49!! Absolutely delighted for you gringrin

Happy birthday Miranda, hope you've had a fab day winethanks

What a lovely, positive place this thread is at the moment smile.

I'm about to move house and that horrid monopoly that is Openreach can't connect me until end of the month but I will lurk when I can, and will be wondering how you all are when I can't!

Loads of woo to you all x

OhWesternWind Sun 08-Sep-13 21:55:32

Hope your move goes well Wagon. And that WAGgy things are still good smile

Glad things are looking up a bit Kitty. Really hope you can find a way forward with work. The picnic sounds fab, really good fun. What did you decide to do about the other guys on PoF?

Family I agree, don't text him.

I think I might be going on holiday with Alpha!!!!

TigsytheTiger Sun 08-Sep-13 22:03:32

49 woo hoo congratulations, Mr R&R is a lucky man!

Happy birthday Miranda, hope it was a lovely one.

Kin snort Mr Tigsy!!!! he's Mr Ex Army on here grin

OWW Knew Alpha was a good un, told you so! You're on my list.

GF dumped by text Snape, it would be wrong to laugh, wouldn't it? Snigger emoticon needed

Waves to all, what a lovely thread!

BloomingRose Sun 08-Sep-13 22:23:31

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KinNora Sun 08-Sep-13 22:30:41

D'oh Tigsy - I just couldn't get his real name out of my head, I blame my advancing years.

Ooh, when OWW ? That's very exciting news.

Wag good luck with the move (and the footballer)

Poor ex-Mr Snape, eh, worra shame.

Okc Visitors update : no longer a gaggle of CBBC presenters, a Phil Mitchell lookey-likeys convention. Be still my beating heart.

IwasTessoftheAngels Sun 08-Sep-13 22:44:54

Very long time lurker here, I just had to pop on to say 49 congratulations to you and mr r&r! I have been lurking for many threads and loved hearing the progression of your relationship. I would love a mr r&r of my own, so if you wouldn't mind cloning him i'd be very grateful! grin

Kirstywirsty Mon 09-Sep-13 05:53:05

49 congratulations!!!

Miranda hope you had a lovely birthday

bant hopefully medstudent will be so mortified by her behaviour she will avoid you in future

OWW when does alpha get his results ?

FoF just left as he gets up at 5 three mornings a week to go to the gym .. I got him to set the alarm a bit earlier today ;)
Life is good .. All settled in the new house .. Every box is unpacked .. Divorce is imminent and FoF is lovely

kittykat10 Mon 09-Sep-13 06:51:11

No I decided against the bloke of pof , this one has taken me ages to get him to meet me .

49howdidthathappen Mon 09-Sep-13 07:21:58

Morning all smile

Wag Hope the move goes well.

OWW You and Alpha. Very, very good.

Kirsty Just fab.

Kin Where is Sharon when you need her?

Kitty A picnic is lovely.

Thanks everyone for your lovely messages smile

kittykat10 Mon 09-Sep-13 07:23:18

To be honest , he seems nice and we been chatting since April so I feel I know him well, he known from the start I've not got a job and seems to understand. Plus I'm enjoying the fun days out.

Yeah I love getting dressed up for night's out but deep down nights out make me feel insecure , my ex would look at other girls .

Any way have a good day xxx

rubbishfamily333 Mon 09-Sep-13 08:06:17

Thanks for the advice, I didn't message him in the end.

Western - wow your going away together. Anywhere nice? grin

49 gringringrinthanksthanksthankswinewinewineI'm in awe. So very happy for you, he is a lucky man. Fantastic thanksthanksthanks

Big wave to test of thread

OhWesternWind Mon 09-Sep-13 09:27:29

Good morning everyone!!

Kirsty sounds like life is going so well for you at the moment. FoF sounds brilliant. Can't believe you are unpacked already - I am in awe. I moved almost two years ago and still have boxes lurking about in cupboards . . . Results are on Wednesday so will have everything crossed then.

Holiday plans with Alpha are wonderful - he is going to take me and the children away over half term, rent a cottage, lovely nights in front of the log burner . . . Cannot wait. And cannot believe how kind and generous this man is.

Winefiend Mon 09-Sep-13 10:33:10

kirsty that is great stuff grin

Juliette how are things?

Secretservice Mon 09-Sep-13 11:14:49

OWW now you're just bragging grin
grins and envys to all the other lovestrucks

Hi Juliette was wondering where you'd got to. Hope you're ok.

Glad you're sounding more perky Kitty and hope Broken's getting there to

Since belatedly taking the advice to formally bin Poet, my slate is now clean - well apart from a smear of chalk dust left by one of those insoluble exes that abound on here - so the woo Is free to surround me. When you're ready woo!

OhWesternWind Mon 09-Sep-13 12:01:35

When's the date with Charlie Nora - is it still on for this week? And what news from the lovely Gay Paree?

The woo is wending its way to you SS I am sure!

Juliette how's everything going with you? Hope all is well.

scrazy Mon 09-Sep-13 12:48:47

Wow it's seems to be going so well for so many of you. I've had wedding at the forefront of my mind recently. It's all hen dos and weddings for family and friends atm and must admit it has got me pondering. I would love to meet the right guy and really want to get married again if I did.

Been feeling a bit down about the ex through all this. He is the only guy I had strong enough feelings for and although I've moved on in a physical sense I still mourn the loss of what I hoped it would be. He wants to stay friends with me too and he genuinely means it rather than it being a ploy. Gosh he has a hard heart.

superstarheartbreaker Mon 09-Sep-13 14:55:50

Hi all again. I'm a bit pissed that guy hasn't got back to me yet. Had naughty fun on Sturday and nothing. TBH though I'm thinking it's probably no great loss as I did tell him I didn't do sex on a first date and yet he was a bit 'pressury' by talking about sex a fair bit, my own sexual encounters and telling me it's a shame I didn't put out on a first date.
This and plus his charm offensive of picking fluff off my jumper and gazing at me etc was a fatal combination.
It's so difficult to resist if someone is very hot and flirty plus a very strong chemsitry but I must be strict with myself! I hate doing it on a first date as it makes me very insecure.
I also noticed that when he drove back to mine he got very impatient with other drivers. Red flag alert??

Winefiend Mon 09-Sep-13 15:25:28

Ah secret now if you had mentioned quite how pressurey he was I might have given you different advice. It doesn't sound good tbh sad I think if it makes you feel insecure then you might be right to wait a while, it depends on the bloke really.

No comment on the impatient driving as I do the same grin

OhWesternWind Mon 09-Sep-13 15:45:42

Superstar - if it makes you feel low, then don't do it. I am the same myself, made a decision a few months ago to wait until I felt there was an emotional connection there as well as a physical one, and I've not regretted that at all. I think both ways work for different people, but if you're not feeling happy and good about what you're doing now, then maybe try a different way.

Also, and please don't take this the wrong way, it sounds like there were quite a few red flags that you recognise with hindsight but didn't at the time. The whole focus on sex from this bloke seems a bit sleazy and telling you it's a shame you don't put out on the first date would have been enough for me to make my excuses and go home. Did you just go along with things because he was putting pressure on you?

I don't really like the sound of this bloke and I actually hope he doesn't get back to you as he doesn't come across as being very nice at all. You are far better off without him. Have you got anyone else lined up?

scrazy Mon 09-Sep-13 16:24:06

I would think that you would need an extra layer of thick skin to be happy and secure having sex on the first internet date. Not something I would recommend unless you really are cool with them not contacting you/nothing coming of it. This is speaking from someone who has done it purely for therapeutic reasons and was really not bothered about the outcome.

I agree this bloke put you under pressure and that really isn't on.

superstarheartbreaker Mon 09-Sep-13 16:58:51

Oh Western wind; yes I have another lined up this Sunday! There was a chemistry between us. Im going to rate the last one on POF and mention that he's charming but uses it to get what he wants!

superstarheartbreaker Mon 09-Sep-13 17:19:21

I think the pressure came from the fact that he wanted to drive me home (Apparently because I then wouldn't have to faff around with the bus.) , also charm offensive and when we went for a drink he wanted to know if I wanted to finish his beer too (nothing to do with wanting to get me pissed he said!) I declined. He actually wanted me to pour his beer into my cider thus making snakebite which is very strong. I think it was all part of his plan. Hope to come back with some more positive stories soon.

Moanranger Mon 09-Sep-13 18:23:23

49 CONGRATS!!! Sorry so delayed to congratulate, but busy here keeping my head above water & dealing with shxxhead STBXH divorce issues.
Super live & learn. Your early description of him suggests a player. They are so good with all the moves, touching, seeming interested in you, etc, as well as the not so nice stuff like encouraging you to drink, innuendos, etc. on the one hand, suave is nice, on the other, it can be phoney.

superstarheartbreaker Mon 09-Sep-13 18:37:01

Oh yes ; congratulations to 49 too. Positive stories= good!

Another red flag; he cross examined me on my sex life, asked me when my last date was, last shag etc, was I wild in bed. It did kind of turn me on in a wierd way but was intrusive in hindsight.

Bant Mon 09-Sep-13 18:54:00

Last night I went to a bar and coincidentally watched the guys who have paid 2000 euros for a training course on how to chat women up. I was with some female friends who volunteered to act as bait to judge them (without them knowing) so I could satisfy my and their curiosity, and compare them to other non-trainees. Just, you know, for scientific research purposes.

I'll cogitate and write a summary later smile

ALittleStranger Mon 09-Sep-13 18:56:39

Yes redflag there Superstar, I think if people turn the conversation around to ape some Cosmo quiz it's pretty clear what their intentions are. Which is pretty handy to be honest whatever your intention.

Why do I bite when people whinge about their bad dating luck, why? I need to learn from you wiser heads and stay clear of the blind.

Bant Mon 09-Sep-13 19:02:52

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Bant Mon 09-Sep-13 19:03:41

Also, I agree with you completely. But I shall. Not. Comment.

superstarheartbreaker Mon 09-Sep-13 19:04:42

I think it's good to give those having bad luck constructive advice and support. TBH it is hard to find someone who is lovely and very sexy.

OhWesternWind Mon 09-Sep-13 19:11:08

Just treat it as free entertainment Stranger in the manner of a bad Elvis impersonator down the local - stare and wonder for a while, but don't get sucked into duetting to 'Love me tender' and move swiftly on to the next pub for a nice quiet pint.

kittykat10 Mon 09-Sep-13 19:12:23

Superstar

I'd be a bit worried if I was asked about my sex life on a first date, mind you Mr car knew about mine before we met !

Well after fretting all day I got a text saying sorry he left his fone on side after getting up late, plus a text saying good luck for my maths exam in the am.

Note to self kitty need to relax
Kitty to relax
Kitty to relax

Is it working ?

OhWesternWind Mon 09-Sep-13 20:57:55

Am very interested in your research Bant and quietly hoping that the chat up techniques didn't work are these students of the guy you met a few months ago who was trying to give you some tips?

Loads of good luck for your exam Kitty! Hope you're having a nice relaxing evening in preparation.

Secretservice Mon 09-Sep-13 20:58:35

Superstar that sense of all sorts of boundaries being crossed with hindsight is one I know well.

It has happened on at least three occasions since I've ODing in slightly different ways, whether it's being 'seduced' with alcohol or words. Each time I convinced myself it was ok to go along with it, because it was exciting and not really wanting to resist that feeling of being so alluring blush

On each occasion, it was only dissecting the shag date with all wise folk on here that it dawned on me how far I'd been played and how I had ignored missed a whole red army of flags.

If only I could guarantee it won't happen again, but sometimes the libido just won't be ignored!

kittykat10 Mon 09-Sep-13 21:03:18

Western

Lay in bed trying not to panic , I have a 2 hour trip to the interview that only half hour away as job center won't pay for car travel x

OhWesternWind Mon 09-Sep-13 21:09:15

Nice bath, music, good book, posting on here - dowhatever works as a bit of pleasant distraction Kitty to pass the evening. I'm sure it will all go well. Fingers crossed for you.

Bant Mon 09-Sep-13 21:11:29

There's one tip I'm trying to work out.. Apparently it works on 90% of women. Or at least 90% of those who are out on the pull, or looking to be pulled, so to speak.

'Spill some beer on them'

I'm not quite sure how that works. Apparently it does.

Any explanation? Or recollections of this happening?

Bant Mon 09-Sep-13 21:15:42

The students seemed to be generally successful incidentally. Not sure about the 5'2" Indian bloke but he was charming some tall blonde woman for a good 20 minutes whilst some drunken English blokes on a stag do looked on in awe..

ALittleStranger Mon 09-Sep-13 21:18:16

WHAT!? I think I've been played. shock

Although I'm sure the most dramatic beer spillage incident was an accident.

I can also confirm that as a woman, spraying Prosecco on yourself works a treat, but it's such an obvious move hmm.

OhWesternWind Mon 09-Sep-13 21:19:06

I have had beer spilled on me. I've thought, "Oh, some drunken arse has spilled beer on me" and not "Ravish me now, you gorgeous hunk of beer-spilling loveliness".

Must be in the 10%.

lurkinglorna Mon 09-Sep-13 21:40:22

ha ha at pulling coach! all seems like an exercise in expensive futility to me! like selling snow to eskimos!

i reckon unless a guy is an absolute smelly hobo as long as he's professionalish and not REALLY terrible socially he can get some female attention, especially where drinks are involved.

and not to mention its all "locationally" quite in their favour anyway, the somewhat geeky chaps i know (who are fairly overlooked in say Central London) who have gone to work in poorer parts of the world have literally had women come up to them and offer them threesomes.

my (not very attractive) ex wasn't even into the "bar scene", especially as he was married to me when he was working abroad! but he still got local staff offering to "introduce" their beautiful daughters to him, cutie pie air hostesses in 1st class offering numbers!

and to me there's a difference between a man who can "get" sex (which seems a rather twee way of putting it, as with the Pill and modern work schedules most women who aren't religious and like to experiment just to check the pipework is in order) and "get" some dates and someone who can actually long term keep a woman with options happy and interested and going out of her way to make him her man? you can't get that with "tricks".

Bant Mon 09-Sep-13 22:31:22

Lorna - the point was that they're looking for sex, not girlfriends. And the tricks work.

Whilst I think it's a bit desperate and sordid, they're being taught to dress better, be more confident and interesting and, yes, not smell like a hobo. And they approach very attractive women and take them home.

It was interesting to see the trainees - some relatively plain, some attractive, be of far more interest to the women they were chatting to than the more attractive blokes in the bar who were just standing with their mates, drinking beer and ogling from a distance. These were men who couldn't make eye contact at the beginning of the week.

Obviously these things are unlikely to turn into long term relationships but they're not looking for one. Or at least not at the moment.

Argh my post keeps failing. Would you go on a date with someone you suspect you have little in common with?

ALittleStranger Mon 09-Sep-13 22:39:34

Probably not Ham but it depends. If we had the same sense of humour but wildly different hobbies I would. Same interests but different backgrounds I would. Vastly different politics and values I think I'd struggle with. And if nothing about them pointed to them being my type of person I wouldn't bother. Do you think you have any overlap?

OhWesternWind Mon 09-Sep-13 22:49:30

It's all to do with confidence, isn't it Bant? I actually feel quite sorry for men in these situations because the onus is often on them to approach, try the chat-up, risk rejection which needs a healthy amount of self-confidence to make it work. So if the chat-up coaching is tips on how to dress, open a conversation, feel more self-confident etc then that's great. I just don't like the emphasis on pick-up sex that seems to be the ultimate aim of the exercise.

Ham well it would depend. Do you mean he likes RnB and you like metal or more fundamental differences?

Well I don't think we have much in common culturally/intellectually maybe though I'm making big assumptions. He's a truck driver - not me judging or anything I just don't know what to think really...

rubbishfamily333 Mon 09-Sep-13 23:30:35

Super - he sounds horrible hmm and guys like that do nothing for our confidence. I have slept with guys on first dates and some I felt fine after some I didn't, but none of them made me feel great! I hope your ok xx time to start being kinder to yourself and think what's best for you next time.

Western - I didn't know your dc's were going too. Has alpha spent a lot of time with them? And how long had you known him before introducing him to dc's? I'm very funny about introducing men to my dd, she is only 6!

lurkinglorna Mon 09-Sep-13 23:38:00

Nothing wrong with casual sex! grin

But I do still think the philosophy behind the pulling course stuff is a bit weak? (and I'm having a break from some essay coursework, so I'm going to elaborate here smile).

Firstly, is direct causality actually there?

My ex and his City chums all had experience of being almost forcibly seduced by nubile, local attractive women when working abroad in E-Europe and Asia (even when they weren't big on the bar scene - one guy was a strict Muslim so no alcohol and still got chased!).

Best anecdote: someone got a guys cleaner to let her in, and then lay there naked in his bed to greet him shock (and he was just some techie speccy dude, nothing to write home about, did "ok" in London dating wise but nothing outstanding).

Maybe the pulling course guys just needed to sit down and go HELLO I'M DAVE I'M ENGLISH WITH A GOOD JOB and they'd be in there. In an international city with a big influx of people, a lot of women are in "holiday mode - what happens here stays here so lets go wild" and want non-serious distraction. The men just need to be in the right place at the right time, not go on some course.

Also I feel it's encouraging personal growth in the wrong areas.

I'd question the value of desiring being seen chatting to attractive women, and being seen to "get numbers" and "take women home"? Is the sex even going to be good? confused Or is it just for the benefit of other men?

Makes me think of the kind of guy who felt inferior to his peers growing up, and STILL feels a need to prove himself against all the other boys.

So he's almost going round with a sandwich board stapled to him saying PLEASE LIKE ME I PULLED A 10 LAST NIGHT grin (when it's not actually that hard to do...)

Rather than craving approval that badly, maybe it would be better and cheaper to try developing a sense of self?

(I can offer this at www.lornagetrichquick.com, for only 1000 euros!)

lurkinglorna Mon 09-Sep-13 23:45:27

Ham I have a weird background so find it hard to find ANYONE I have a lot in common with.

I think the trick is to have your own personal criteria for meeting and go with it? and don't go with stereotypes for professions? social and intellectual compatibility can't be judged by what someone does to pay the bills...

i was reading on the news a story about a postman who happened to be dating a very beautiful, successful doctor. the "catch" was that the postman was a war artist (which is why he was in the news) ex soldier, so obviously had a lot of interesting stuff going for him, too beyond his "direct" professional description.

good luck! smile

DisneyonIce Tue 10-Sep-13 00:44:33

Hello daters (and a big congrats to 49!). Need some, well dating-related advice please. (Sorry if TMI - I know some of you won't bat an eye but not the kind of conversation i normally have so have namechanged for this) Finally seeing someone regularly and finding it difficult to keep my bikini area, well tidy. I can't use home hair removing creams, they just don't work for me. i used to shave very occassionally and wax even less often - usually only if going on holiday. But now I'm having to shave regularly and ending up with lots of spots and ingrown hairs - not exactly the look you want with a new lover. I react better to waxing but then you have to let it grow periodically. Please help, I don't know what to do!

Bant Tue 10-Sep-13 06:20:38

Disney - I'm afraid I can't be of much help.

Lorna - I agree with some of your points, but to rebut (cos I love a good debate, me smile )

Yes, the time and place is important. They teach these courses in places like this because it's easier to meet women here - in the same way they teach you to drive on back roads and suburbs, rather than the M25. If it's about being confident and approaching women and being interesting, then doing it in a country pub on a Tuesday evening isn't going to help the situation. Once they've learned the lessons and put it into practice, their confidence grows and they can take it back home with them.

Being in the right place at the right time isn't enough though. It's also acting in the right way and being self-assured enough to talk to a woman rather than stand over in the corner staring dolefully into your pint because 'women don't want nice guys' - which is a common misconception used to placate guys who think they're nice but really just put all women on a pedestal and lack the ability to approach them.

Secondly - I was in a club in England last year with some friends. Two of the girls were sat together chatting, and some random bloke comes up, plops himself down and stares at one of them. Then after a couple of minutes, he leans forward and says to one of them 'My name's Dave, I work in the City, I think you're lovely, do you wanna drink?' - the first girl says 'Sorry, I have a boyfriend'

So he turns immediately to her friend and says 'My name's Dave, I work in the city, I think you're lovely, do you wanna drink?'

At which point they both get up and go to the toilet together.

I chatted to my friend who'd been the experimental 'bait' who I mentioned earlier. She and her friend stood up from our table and stood a few feet away so they were separate from us. And within two minutes, three guys came over and said hello. They chatted for a couple of minutes, then my friends moved away from them and stood somewhere else. Another couple of blokes descended on them. And cue a repeat - moving on back to our table. They were underwhelmed. 'These guys are so boring!' said one of them. 'One of them was telling me how much he earned. What a drunken wanker!' said the other. Men use alcohol to give them the courage to break the ice, but overdo it and end up dribbling and babbling.

Whereas the trainees on this course, whilst being taught a few 'seduction tricks' like the beer spilling, are basically taught to dress well, look confident, have interesting stories to tell. They did very well with the women. When my friend spoke to one of the trainees, he was sober, funny and apparently really sweet. She fancied him even though she knew he had done the course.

And no - men don't, in my experience, try and pull women to be seen doing so. They do it so they can have sex with women, which is it's own benefit. If I meet a woman I don't go round bragging about it to other men, their opinion isn't really important, and I'd look like a moron. Do you go out with friends to meet men and take them home for the benefit of other women?

If this course teaches men self confidence and lets them practice it in a target-rich environment, then doesn't that make them a long term better potential than if it taught them how to get women blind drunk and try and seduce them? Or worse?

Surely it's better to meet someone like this than someone getting drunk and drooling on your shoulder, or trying to slip something into your drink, or never having the confidence to come over and chat to you?

If they're honest and confident and dressed well and interesting, I don't really see the harm. Women learn how to do makeup when they're young, and ask on here and in real life about what to wear for dates. They discuss what clothes to wear when going out to a club. Men don't talk to each other about stuff like that. We know it's vaguely important but if we're not confident enough to think we can meet and chat to a woman, then we default to t-shirts with cartoon characters, and jeans.

I was trying to work out how different that was to women on here being told to be more confident, to show your wrists at men in order to be seductive (I'm still not sure how that works) and I still haven't come to a conclusion. These trainees are shy men who don't have the balls to talk to women, who are taught how to grow a pair and treat women like equals who have libidos and want to be spoken to by someone funny and attractive, not pandered to by a drunken obsequious bloke who's obviously desperate for sex. The men pay a lot of money to be taught something which is kind of obvious to many women.

One fundamental difference between men and women is that a woman - any woman - can have sex if she wants to by going to a club and making eye contact with men. Eventually some bloke will come over and try and seduce or chat to her. It's just that she may have to lower her standards a lot. Men have to make the effort, go over and talk to them, try and be attractive, interesting, humorous, charming. We can't just stand there in jeans and t-shirt, and expect women to come over and try and seduce us simply because we have a penis. A woman can smell bad, look bad, be boring and eventually some drunken guy will try and have sex with her, as long as the men outnumber the women. It's just unlikely it'll lead to a relationship.

If you give an infinite number of men an infinite number of typewriters, eventually one of them will try and have sex with it.

Lastly, I spat my coffee out when I read your comment on a course teaching men to pull women that it 'encourages personal growth in the wrong areas'...
smile

Sorry for the long post, I am open to flaming by enraged feminists who think that men learning to be more self assured and attractive and to speak to women as equals is a bad thing.

TigsytheTiger Tue 10-Sep-13 07:07:51

You don't arf talk a lot of sense our Bant grin

Morning thread! Good luck with your exam Kitty

49howdidthathappen Tue 10-Sep-13 07:25:51

Yeah. Good luck Kitty smile

Bant Tue 10-Sep-13 07:32:41

good luck Kitty - you'll do fine

akaWisey Tue 10-Sep-13 07:35:58

Good morning, back with a (potential) dating dilemma.

Trying to do the rules which thus far has worked on the blokes I'm not really interested in and not with the ones I am (but that's another thread so I won't' go there).

So was messaged end of last week by guy who I like the pic and profile of. We exchanged a few brief messages about our jobs etc and then he asks for a date (tomorrow evening) So far so good.

We agreed to talk nearer the time, he said 'you choose the venue wisey, perhaps nice quiet pub'. Fair enough I thought. So it's Tuesday, we've both been online again but not in touch with each other since our last exchange on Friday and what do I do now? Message him as if I assume it's still on and tell him where I'd like to meet? Not message him (a la Rules because if it wasn't all bollocks he'll message me anyway)?

by the way, it may be my spidey senses but he actually said in message number two that he's had physical relationships but now feels the mind is more important (oh yeah?) . Two messages later and he tells me he's literally just got back from a week camping with a bunch of mates which means he was messaging me whilst with his chums. Which could mean they were telling him what to say………. I am so, so cynical.

People who are wiser than me. What should I do?

Bant Tue 10-Sep-13 08:29:44

Wisey - if he asked you to choose the place, then choose the place and let him know. Otherwise he may be thinking you're backing out by not choosing one.

That isn't being demanding or needy - you're simply assuming breezily that he still wants to date you (because he'd be mad not to) and you're letting him know where to be so he can try and impress you.

The 'mind is more important' is strange, it could be an amber flag.

And I'd find it highly unlikely that a bloke would be chatting to his friends round a campfire and asking advice on what to say to a woman he was about to meet from an online date. We all like to act like we're confident with the laydees in front of our mates.

Asking what to say would be admitting to your friends 'I'm clueless with women' So I doubt that's the case. Could be, but I don't think so.

Winefiend Tue 10-Sep-13 08:59:16

Bant Good points, no flaming here. The only thing I'll say is that some cretins men DO go out 'on the pull' for the benefit of their male friends. No friends of mine, but friends of friends. Also an observation from nights out I've had as I quite often like to step back and people watch and it is quite saddening when you see a bloke talking to a woman and then look over at his mates, like a puppy seeking approval. These ones could do with a few lessons in building the old self esteem.

kitty all the very best of luck!

OhWesternWind Tue 10-Sep-13 09:15:00

Ham if he seems like a nice bloke and you have some things in common, then it's probably worth a date just to see how you get on.

Kitty fingers crossed for you today!

Wisey - all sounds fine. You said you'd talk nearer the time (ie now), he asked you to choose the venue so I would agree that he's probably waiting for you to come back with a suggestion of where to go. Tbh I don't think the mind comment is that odd - the phrasing is maybe a little strange but what I'd think he's saying is that he doesn't want a relationship based purely on sex, he wants to be compatible in other ways too and that's more important. Which is good, isn't it?

Lorna and Bant you both make me laugh (in a good way!)

Family the meeting the children thing is something I've thought long and hard about, and I don't really think there are any right or wrong answers, just whatever works in the circumstances. Alpha is going to be around for a good while, so I'm happy for him to meet the children and do things together.

scrazy Tue 10-Sep-13 10:57:10

It's always the blokes you aren't interested in that seem really interested isn't it? Maybe the rules have a point as you are going to apply them to men you don't want.

Another useless dating fact I came across recently is that men find it hard to leave a date/woman who they have a laugh with! Now when I look back, most of my ltr have been with men who have the same silly sense of humour to me and have had a giggling fit with early on.

I agree with letting them do the running, arranging, travelling and even paying for most of the first dates, which is a rules thing, but you also have to not be too available/keen for quite a while in the beginning by getting on with your life rather than playing games and letting them do the contacting, arranging second dates etc.

I'm not really answering anyone here, just pondering to myself grin.

Flipper934 Tue 10-Sep-13 11:07:58

Woohoo everyone, I'm back!

You didn't even notice I was gone, did you?

I've read this thread, but not the one before, so I'll say

CONGRATULATIONS! to 49 and Mr R&R, and wish you all the very best. I'm so thrilled for you, especially as you're not the marrying kinds...it fair warms the cockles.

Snape, glad all remains well with Nameless. Hope the ex is soon gone from under your roof. Is this the same one who was just dumped by text?

OWW, Alpha sounds lovely. Just lovely.

Kirsty, I think FoF is a keeper, too. Hope you're settling into your new home.

Tigsy, things are back on an even keel with Mr EA, then? That's what I like to hear.

Miranda, belated happy birthday, and have a wonderful time away.

Kitty, hope the maths test went well. Fingers crossed on the job front for you, you don't need my fingers crossed for Mr Car.

Broken, you said that your first impressions of this chap were wrong, but I don't think that's true at all. You were put off by his watch checking on your first date. Then, if I remember rightly, he made you feel bad about your 'performance' in bed? He doesn't make you feel good about yourself, and from what you've said, he never has.

Lovey, with the kindest of intentions, I'm going to be very blunt now. You've known all along that this man isn't a goodun. You've come on here to tell us your doubts, and we've agreed that they're valid, but then you've convinced yourself that it's ok to go back for more from him. Why?

<waves at rest of thread, looks sternly at those of you stubbornly resisting the woo>

<you know who you are> < Nora>

Off to look for thread with bunfight referred to by Bant, Wine etc., and catch up with Thread 61. I've missed this place...

OhWesternWind Tue 10-Sep-13 11:15:21

Flipper hellooooooo!! Glad you are back! What have you been up to then, missis?

lovelybunchofcoconuts Tue 10-Sep-13 11:24:47

Hi everyone grin
Hi Flipper, how are you?
In your previous post was the 'Lovey' bit about me? Have I missed something? smile

OhWesternWind Tue 10-Sep-13 11:28:04

I think that was to Broken, Lovely. Ironman is one of the good ones! How are you feeling about it now that it's slowed down by the way?

Flipper934 Tue 10-Sep-13 11:38:53

grin

I've been on me holidays! I can confirm that Egyptland is very warm, and that everything I've ever heard about all inclusive holidays (and holidayng with children) is absolutely true. I loved every minute.

Found the other thread - same old same old. I think it boils down to the reason for posting in the first place, which is for sympathy (and this is perfectly valid), whereas people on Internet forums tend to want to offer advice.

kittykat10 Tue 10-Sep-13 11:40:43

Just a note to say.

exam done won't know for a few days !

OhWesternWind Tue 10-Sep-13 11:58:37

Phew well at least it's over with now Kitty! Hope you've got something nice planned for the rest of the day.

Winefiend Tue 10-Sep-13 12:02:37

Hello Flipper grin

Ah kitty, fingers and toes crossed!

One of my clients has just handed me 2 single bus tickets (unusual in itself, one is the norm) for reinbursing. Same dates (this morn). Upon closer inspection, they are for opposite directions and he has ripped the time off one. Litte tinker grin Working out how to approach this one in half an hour without congratulating him on his efforts.

kittykat10 Tue 10-Sep-13 12:08:46

Sleep that what I plan lol

Been awake most of night, and when I get very anxious I'm sick so didn't have a good night.

Snapespeare Tue 10-Sep-13 13:21:03

Hallo flipper ex now back off north, thank Christ. I have consoled myself that his hair is thinning. grin he seems OK with the dumping-by-text, as he had kind of viewed it as an on-again-off-again thing...and he didn't try it on with me, which is an improvement to his usual visits. DS1 a bit upset though and off of school today. He'd been good about going in on Friday for first day...and on Monday, but some manky y11 girl bit him yesterday (left bruising and teeth marks) and that combined with his dad waltzing off again has left him a bit low.

I started new job yesterday and I hate it. I just want to cry.

Nameless has a cold.

I'm going to slope off home early, liberate my wine from my knicker-drawer and watch a nice film tonight.

OhWesternWind Tue 10-Sep-13 13:42:01

Oh Snape sorry to hear about your ds (and hope the school are taking some action - wtf is going on with biting in Yr 11???) and about the new job. If it's any consolation, I hated mine at first, found it very difficult to settle in after being so institutionalised in my old place, but it just takes time, nothing else, just time. It will come right, lovely.

lurkinglorna Tue 10-Sep-13 14:01:13

Bant:

My issues with the pulling coach thing aren’t moral or anti men just common sensical. It seems the equivalent of quack diets or £200 cosmetic creams, charging dudes for advice on “getting” an outcome which might happen anyway? Dating is not a scenario in which women are playing a passive role.

“Getting” sex for a guy in the age of the Pill isn’t an achievement or a challenge or a reflection of his overall attractiveness at ALL? There’s tonnes of mediocre guys with high “casual action levels” or loads of very attractive females in their orbit (who don’t take them seriously and won’t call them their boyfriend).

It means or proves nothing (especially if those guys are already somewhere where their economic status is, and is known to be, much higher than the local population).

Some women (including very conventionally desirable types) are actually “on the hunt” for something casual, especially if their life/work/family situation means they aren't open to dating the calibre of guy who is a “world changer”.

I agree a bar situation could be stressful, but it seems impossible that a professional guy who is online dating and also “out there” who isn’t a cave troll to get NO action after a few boozy dates/meets. An ok guy often doesn’t even need to do anything, just not do anything rubbish, women will lead on the sex.

Did anyone see Celebrity Love island? (quite shite) Remember Lady Isabella Hervey?(head turning posh blonde). For a time, she was “with” the chavvy minging bloke, even “talked the talk” and was quite possessive over him?.

So was it down to his wide boy charms or just the situation? Same number of guys and girls, the other guys are paired off with the other girls .....so....... I reckon it was a case of “he’s there and “nice” and there isn’t anyone else left at the moment and I’m lonely”

I have an acquaintance – call him X - who showed me the Facebook of a stunning lass who was part of the same social group, who was really coming onto him one night. He knew she was actually “into” someone else, and it was like “X is “nice” and reliable and will be grateful so I’ll seduce him just to take my mind off the other guy who I actually like”. X had the dignity and self awareness not to want to take on this role, even if it would mean he “got” sex with her!

Or even in LTRs, again, one has women doing the choosing regardless of the man’s actions or intentions? I had rugrats fairly young, glad of it, good timing.

But its not uncommon for childless women to get to the end of their fertility years (35ish) look at the “nice ok” men in their social circle, and go “yeah he’ll do as I REALLY want a baby and marriage”. So you could have guys claiming “I did this and my inner wonderfulness won me the love of X and caught her and got me married” .

When it’s REALLY down to the woman sizing up her options (and biological clock) and actually doing the choosing of the guy and “letting” him catch her (deep down she sees him as the best of a mediocre bunch). I’m not saying this scenario leads to unhappiness, we all have to make compromises somewhere, but correlation isn’t causation.

PS I only charge 1000 euros for saying GYM’S THAT WAY! AND WASH AND DON’T BE A WEIRDO!

PSS Can someone tell me to get back to my coursework and stop procrastinating? I got a month off work and I need to use it wisely grin

kittykat10 Tue 10-Sep-13 14:04:40

Update on Mr car,
He texted this morning saying he off next week maybe we could meet up for a weekday kiss and cuddle.
I don't k n ow what to think , he has said we can go slow and I'm the boss when it comes to setting pace.

Do you think I'm over reacting thinking is that all he after deep down I don't think he like that as well we introduced in April but didn't meet till few weeks ago. So doesn't seem to be just after sex.

OhWesternWind Tue 10-Sep-13 14:19:56

Really, really sad to say that because of some comments made a couple of pages back, Bant has now been banned from the site. First Ike and now this.

He sends you all his fondest regards, says he'll miss you and wishes you good luck.

Bant has been a brilliant poster and has brought so much humour, common sense, intelligence and perspective to this thread. He has also been a true friend to me personally and has been incredibly generous with his support and practical help. This thread will be a far poorer place without him.

I have also had a formal warning.

Although I love this thread and many of the people on it, I'm going to have to think very carefully about whether this is a place where I want to continue to post.

OhWesternWind Tue 10-Sep-13 14:20:07

Really, really sad to say that because of some comments made a couple of pages back, Bant has now been banned from the site. First Ike and now this.

He sends you all his fondest regards, says he'll miss you and wishes you good luck.

Bant has been a brilliant poster and has brought so much humour, common sense, intelligence and perspective to this thread. He has also been a true friend to me personally and has been incredibly generous with his support and practical help. This thread will be a far poorer place without him.

I have also had a formal warning.

Although I love this thread and many of the people on it, I'm going to have to think very carefully about whether this is a place where I want to continue to post.

OhWesternWind Tue 10-Sep-13 14:20:16

Really, really sad to say that because of some comments made a couple of pages back, Bant has now been banned from the site. First Ike and now this.

He sends you all his fondest regards, says he'll miss you and wishes you good luck.

Bant has been a brilliant poster and has brought so much humour, common sense, intelligence and perspective to this thread. He has also been a true friend to me personally and has been incredibly generous with his support and practical help. This thread will be a far poorer place without him.

I have also had a formal warning.

Although I love this thread and many of the people on it, I'm going to have to think very carefully about whether this is a place where I want to continue to post.

OhWesternWind Tue 10-Sep-13 14:23:30

Oops, don't know why that came through three times, sorry.

lovelybunchofcoconuts Tue 10-Sep-13 14:24:53

Eh???? I don't understand.
I've read the past few threads avidly & I can't remember anything?
OWW are you alright? Are you on fb?
I'm friends with Snape & Secret.

Snapespeare Tue 10-Sep-13 14:28:04

What the actual fuck? Were there deletions I missed?!

OhWesternWind Tue 10-Sep-13 14:38:36

This is all to do with some posts around 7 pm last night that have been reported by someone on another thread. These posts haven't been deleted because there was nothing bloody wrong with them. However, I will obviously have to be very careful what I say otherwise I will be joining the ranks of the disappeared, so I'll leave it at that.

Yep, I'm on FB too Lovely - will PM you.

Secretservice Tue 10-Sep-13 14:51:38

oww that is outrageous! How can that be?

Bant will be sorely missed sad and please don't you disappear too, although I can understand why you might be tempted.

JoNesbo Tue 10-Sep-13 14:54:32

Longtime lurker. These online dating threads are the best ever, and have helped me get my post-LTR head around dating. Bant's input was a major draw...made so much sense even when his responses were perhaps difficult for some other posters to take. Very disappointed he has been banned hmm

SweetSeraphim Tue 10-Sep-13 14:58:41

What the hell has happened? Why has Bant been banned? And why has OWW had a formal warning?? I'm very confused.

KinNora Tue 10-Sep-13 15:22:07

Hang on a minute - so it's perfectly ok to post malicious, malignant personal messages but not to make general comments ?
Christ on a bike.

SweetSeraphim Tue 10-Sep-13 15:26:22

I just don't understand the situation at all. Both OWW and Bant are long-standing members of MN and this thread in particular. What has happened is so clearly down to a personal grudge that I can't believe it's been allowed to go on tbh.

SweetSeraphim Tue 10-Sep-13 15:26:59

In fact, are we allowed to ask MN for an explanation on the thread? Is that the done thing?

Snapespeare Tue 10-Sep-13 15:29:52

I can't find anything that either bant or oww have posted around about that timeframe that could be construed as a personal attack. Was that the reasoning behind the ban?

I hope you continue to post OWW, I'd miss you. I'll miss bant as well. And I miss Ike.

Another shit-ban-decision, while other MNers get away with 50 shades of bullying and harrasment. Have some consistency.

KinNora Tue 10-Sep-13 15:30:42

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

kittykat10 Tue 10-Sep-13 15:34:16

I've been picked on., not on this thread but another but I wouldn't bother to report some one.
It's really just petty , we not kids !

BringMeTea Tue 10-Sep-13 15:57:13

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Winefiend Tue 10-Sep-13 15:57:30

What the fuck??!!! shock

I really want to say more than I feel I can do but it's getting that you have to be so careful what you say now. Bizarre.

I miss Ike
I will miss Bant
I would miss OWW

Wank.

scrazy Tue 10-Sep-13 16:05:09

Oh no! I cannot see any deleted posts so I don't understand why Bant was banned confused

Is it OK to ask MNHQ to explain?

Have just caught up with the going ons shock sad

MNHQ don't seem to like the dating thread I think, as far as I can see there was and has been nothing to get banned for, so perhaps it would be useful to have Justine or someone explain why Bant and (indeed Ike) required banning and OWW warning?

KinNora Tue 10-Sep-13 16:08:55

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

SweetSeraphim Tue 10-Sep-13 16:26:29

How do we get MNHQ to respond, does anyone know?

No idea Sweet.

Snapespeare Tue 10-Sep-13 16:33:03

report your own post to flag it?

SweetSeraphim Tue 10-Sep-13 16:39:51

Done it. Hopefully we will get a response later.

JoylessFucker Tue 10-Sep-13 16:45:40

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

BloomingRose Tue 10-Sep-13 16:59:40

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

joblot Tue 10-Sep-13 17:00:47

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

scrazy Tue 10-Sep-13 17:01:18

I agree Joyless and f--k it I don't really care if I get deleted or banned now as I'm fed up with it too. I reckon it's more than one poster that has it in for us on here. I posted on a thread recently a snipey dig back, which was rubbish anyway but still.

I ignored it and decided to stick to posting on here but have decided to jack in posting on here too now.

Anyone wanting to add me on face bastard pm me but do it quick grin

scrazy Tue 10-Sep-13 17:02:29

Meant to say 'got' a.

kaumana Tue 10-Sep-13 17:07:38

Delurking to agree with Joyless. I love this thread and the advice/funny stories by Bant and others.

49howdidthathappen Tue 10-Sep-13 17:23:44

What the flying fuck! RIDICULOUS angry

I am going to have to FB. This is leaving a very nasty taste.

kittykat10 Tue 10-Sep-13 17:25:55

Is everyone leaving ?

BringBackBant Tue 10-Sep-13 17:29:05

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

TigsytheTiger Tue 10-Sep-13 17:32:42

Unbloody believable! I can't see a thing wrong in any of Bants posts they were just observational and why did OWW get a warning?!?!

Who could possibly have a problem, please don't tell me it's who I think it is!

kaumana Tue 10-Sep-13 17:32:51

What she said with bells on!

niceupthedance Tue 10-Sep-13 17:42:38

I'm a lurker on this thread and echo everything BringBackBant has said. I think you need a moderator who knows the history of this thread to intervene. Crazy decision.

misreadings Tue 10-Sep-13 17:42:52

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

DadfromUncle Tue 10-Sep-13 17:43:34

Bant is a real loss imho - I think it's harsh to have banned him. Looks like I'd better keep my trap shut beyond that.

Winefiend Tue 10-Sep-13 17:44:13

Is there anywhere we can move to en masse?

I am happy to add folk on Facebastard but unfortunately I have a very lovely but very nosy ex (and brother) who likes to occasionally pass comment on who I've added/not added on there. This place is like my wee safe haven so I don't want anyone in RL getting wind of it and reading old posts etc. It's like my little private time here, if that makes sense.

JoylessFucker Tue 10-Sep-13 17:45:52

kitty I don't believe anyone wants to leave but a large number of us are very upset indeed at the injustice of this action. Sit right, hopefully it'll all come out in the wash & normal service will be resumed ... with all posters rightfully restored (of course).

Kirstywirsty Tue 10-Sep-13 17:47:28

I am totally shocked .. Can't believe bant has been banned and OWW warned ..

Shame some people have to spoil what is a fantastic thread

joblot Tue 10-Sep-13 17:52:28

I like mn, seems wrong/sad to move because of spite and bad decisions. If I was bant, and ike, I think I'd return with a new name- why should a few ruin it for the many? I like a bit of subversion

49howdidthathappen Tue 10-Sep-13 17:57:05

Agree this has been a very special place for many during good and bad times.

Will be very sorry to leave, but getting impossible here now sad

Kitty I am sure someone will PM you about FB. I would but have to figure out how to use it myself.

TigsytheTiger Tue 10-Sep-13 17:59:32

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

ClottedCreamYum Tue 10-Sep-13 18:04:33

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Wagonwheels Tue 10-Sep-13 18:05:15

What the....? Only got a minute to catch up with the thread... What has happened? Where are you all going? Can I come?? hmm

kittykat10 Tue 10-Sep-13 18:05:27

I don't really use fb , don't understand it

BringMeTea Tue 10-Sep-13 18:07:55

Well. Happy to see other lurkers moved to comment on this travesty. Amusingly though, getting Bant banned must seem like a pyrrhic victory with such a strong outpouring of support for him. Silver lining 'n all that. Ha ha.

lemonmuffin Tue 10-Sep-13 18:11:18

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

JulieMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 10-Sep-13 18:11:51

Hello

Thanks for the reports about this thread, and we're sorry to see that many of you are upset about our decision to ban Bant. We do understand that he was a popular and long-term MNer.

Obviously we can't discuss the details of our dealings with other posters, especially if they're not around to speak up for themselves. But in general, we never take the decision to ban lightly, especially when someone has been around for a while. Posters will receive at least one (and sometimes more) clear warning that further breaking of Guidelines will lead to a suspension of their ability to post before we implement a ban.

We do know that there is history here, and some bad blood between a few posters on this thread. But we can't allow repeated breaking of the Talk Guidelines.

If Bant would like to contact MNHQ to discuss anything, he's welcome to do so.

And many apologies that we failed to delete his post earlier - we do see that this was confusing. It was an oversight on our part, and we've zapped it now. blush

Please also rest assured that we do really try to deal with all posters equally and fairly, and that quite a lot goes on behind the scenes. Anyone on these threads who has been brought to our attention for repeatedly breaking our rules will, at the very least, have heard from us. But if there's any particular posts or posters you'd like to bring to our attention, please do report them to us

kittymchotpress Tue 10-Sep-13 18:12:44

I'm a very irregular poster here but long time lurker and have always enjoyed bant and oww's posts. insightful, honest and on the level, and helpful for those of us trying to surf the maelstrom that can be online dating. The thread won't be the same without bant's well written, male, POV. have read the connected threads and the ban seems overly harsh IMO.

RockWithaJaggedyBit Tue 10-Sep-13 18:14:32

Going to second, third, fourth everyone else here - summed up very well by Joyless and BringBackBant. I know I'm largely a lurker, but I've been around a long time, and it is perfectly clear who is stirring the shit here. Bloody outrageous decision by MNHQ.

And if you're all buggering off to FB, please someone PM me so I can come too!

TigsytheTiger Tue 10-Sep-13 18:15:06

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Snapespeare Tue 10-Sep-13 18:19:19

I've had thinly veiled personal attacks, where the poster manages to not actually mention my name, but those who are savvy recognise it as such. I tend to rise above it, because I'm not that bothered about words on the Internet. By nature, I don't like confrontation, so I tend to try to peace keep and go to the darkened room with a bottle of gin and a jar of Nutella.

But I think this is wrong.

I admire bant for his tenacity. For sticking around when a lot of male posters give it up as a bad job because sometimes people can extrapolate their own experiences with men and attribute their own experiences to what male posters post. That isn't right. I admire bant for his perspective, it's invaluable that someone, particularly a bloke, is consistently challenged and sticks around and keeps offering his opinion.

MNHQ, without knowing exactly what has gone down.....we're all forming our own opinions and those opinions don't show you in a particularly good light.

And hello de-lurkers. Thank you for delurking. That rocks. smile

Snapespeare Tue 10-Sep-13 18:19:52

Oops, sorry x posts etc. <reads upthread>

JoylessFucker Tue 10-Sep-13 18:20:35

Yup, what Tigsy said ...

A very polite, template reply not dealing with the issue AT ALL. Not good enough MNHQ ... Please refer this thread's outpouring up the chain of command.

RockWithaJaggedyBit Tue 10-Sep-13 18:22:05

Agreed Tigsy - I can only think that Mumsnet have their little favourites . . . (despite Julie's protestations to the contrary)

And Julie - I read Bant's post last night. There was NO personal attack. How on earth did it break MN talk guidelines?

BringBackBant Tue 10-Sep-13 18:22:45

I'd like to join you on FB too, please. Can someone PM me? Ta.

MNHQ - I am truly struggling to see why a remark about not engaging with an unnamed thread started by an unnamed poster - in response to a remark made by someone else - manages to break any guidelines, let alone earn a deletion/ban.

49howdidthathappen Tue 10-Sep-13 18:22:53

I fear we are flogging a dead horse Tigsy It is as clear as mud for those that want to see it.

Wagonwheels Tue 10-Sep-13 18:23:07

Mumsnet, I'm confused. Thankfully I got a chance to read the most recent posts before they were deleted, so I have an idea of what has been going on. Anyone else returning to this much loved and invaluable thread after a short break, will be appalled (and even more confused than me) to see what has happened.

Sure some of us sail a bit close to the wind occasionally - but equally, we are pretty good at pulling each other up on it, and moving on. I understand the need for rules on fora, but I think your rules need to be reviewed.

Fellow threadees, I'd love to see you on FB (indeed I have befriended some of you already which is fab) - please PM me! X

BringBackBant Tue 10-Sep-13 18:24:48

Oh and while I'm here - Snape, as a v. long term lurker following yours (and others stories), I am delighted to hear about your current happiness. Delighted smile

TigsytheTiger Tue 10-Sep-13 18:26:51

I'm friends with Wagon already but anyone else wh I'm not then feel free to PM me grin

Winefiend Tue 10-Sep-13 18:27:11

Oh whatevs. I am Facecunting now anyway (you are my 'uni' chums now <sigh>), Pm me and whatnot.

Nora, I'm about to add WFF so I will add you via there. Anyone else I don't know your rl names!

JoylessFucker Tue 10-Sep-13 18:27:47

Funnily enough, my posting name came about from a not very thinly veiled insult. Like Snape, I chose to rise above it and actively embrace the name. In fact, I love the name and it makes me smile to remember how it came about because it was a lively exchange. What it wasn't was a concerted, continual series of pathetic and unpleasant shit-stirring attacks by one individual of anyone who disagrees with them.

There's always spats online, it can't be avoided but it seems as if the letter of a particular law is being applied here and the spirit very flagrantly flouted.

scrazy Tue 10-Sep-13 18:29:50

I've been meaning to ask this what happened to a poster called Mercury. This poster used to stick up for herself and hasn't been heard of for a while. Let me know Mercury if you are still around.

lemonmuffin Tue 10-Sep-13 18:31:54

You're being played MNHQ. I don't get why you're falling for it.

BringMeTea Tue 10-Sep-13 18:36:05

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

JoylessFucker Tue 10-Sep-13 18:36:57

Oh blimey, my FB is a blur of people I'm trying to get straight smile

KinNora Tue 10-Sep-13 18:46:24

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

ALittleStranger Tue 10-Sep-13 18:50:39

WTF, this is outrageous and I also feel partly responsible so sorry Bant if you're lurking.

An explanation for those who are utterly confused because of the complete lack of offensive posts on this thread! I posted a snarky response on another thread whilst holding back everything I actually thought to avoid breaching MN guidelines and posted a sigh of frustration on this thread. Bant posted a very brief, non-inflammatory supportive comment. Which was enough to get someone's knickers in a twist because they already had a grudge against Bant.

MN obviously are not familiar with the concept of bullies playing the victim as a controlling technique.

KinNora Tue 10-Sep-13 18:53:22

You've got three minutes to deletion, I reckon Stranger. Some opinions are more acceptable than others, clearly.

ALittleStranger Tue 10-Sep-13 18:54:53

Yeah I am just sitting here waiting...

ike2kool4skool Tue 10-Sep-13 18:56:36

Hi guys ...for clarity...I was given no first warning by MNHQ they just cut me off. Good luck to you all. Luff ya. I fully expect instant zapping.

KinNora Tue 10-Sep-13 18:58:39

Oh Ike2kool4skool how very, very lovely to see you here !

scrazy Tue 10-Sep-13 18:59:16

Well Hi there, lovely to hear from you but angry.

ALittleStranger Tue 10-Sep-13 18:59:29

Ike!

And I won't be Facebooking I'm afraid, I like MN because it's a supportive safe space where I can be anonymous and get advice without friends telling me what I want to hear. Shame MNHQ decided to ruin that.

BloomingRose Tue 10-Sep-13 19:01:09

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RockWithaJaggedyBit Tue 10-Sep-13 19:04:08

I asked MN to come back to the thread to explain exactly how Bant's perfectly reasonable (and restrained) post broke guidelines. I think it'll be a long wait .

Ike, lovely to "see" you again, albeit briefly . . .

49howdidthathappen Tue 10-Sep-13 19:05:03

Hiya Ike Lovely to hear from you. Shame its to do with another banning. Something very weird here.

GivesYouHell Tue 10-Sep-13 19:08:21

Long time lurker (was wolfandi in a previous incarnation). Quite agree with all the regulars - utterly incomprehensible decision.This thread has been a godsend to me, helping me to have some perspective on the oddities of online dating. It'll be a huge loss not to have this.

If anyone is happy to allow me to join the FB thread, please PM me. I'll understand if no one does given that I'm a scaredy cat lurker..!

49howdidthathappen Tue 10-Sep-13 19:11:50

Going out. No internet. Catch up with you all tomorrow on FB. Hopefully!

Snapespeare Tue 10-Sep-13 19:12:59

<DJ-ike-hug> x

Snapespeare Tue 10-Sep-13 19:17:46

Actually, know what? In the interests of democracy and given the very limited information/explanation from MNHQ, could people who support bant being banned, just post that they do? No come-back. No judgement. :-) and with the understanding that the popular will of the masses isn't necessarily the right thing...it would be interesting to see if anyone supports MNHQ on this. I appreciate we're not a democracy and you technically own our souls with regard to what we post... But it would be 'nice' if the ban decision got some back up.

So you don't look quite so isolated...

kittykat10 Tue 10-Sep-13 19:19:31

Well if this does fold I just wanted to say thanks, not been posting long but ppl have been very helpful and kind x

Snapespeare Tue 10-Sep-13 19:19:33

givesyouhell pm'd you. smile

Flipper934 Tue 10-Sep-13 19:20:30

Ike! Mwah.

Would be happy to be fb friends with any of you, but I can't remember who's on there. Feel free to PM me.

Snapespeare Tue 10-Sep-13 19:24:20

Likewise. I need an FB/MN spreadsheet.

Flipper934 Tue 10-Sep-13 19:28:06

I'm not in favour of the bans or warnings, by the way. From what I can see, certain posters don't like the opinions of others, and complain bitterly (and with personal attacks) when they are posted. It upsets me that these personal attacks are not apparently responded to, whereas the reactions they provoke are.

Double standards from MNHQ in my view, which is a shame. I assume it's because they can only investigate those posts which are reported.

scoobydooagain Tue 10-Sep-13 19:28:21

Read both threads last night and WTF, outrageous, banning for that!! Christ we are adults not 2 year olds. Was starting to become a bit of a Mumsnet addict - think this has solved that, shocking treatment of Bant (and DJ Ike)

OhWesternWind Tue 10-Sep-13 19:37:37

Interestingly, I've reported several posts of Watch's on recent threads today and have had no response from MNHQ.

Also interestingly, here's an excerpt from the warning I got from MNHQ.

^[your post] was reported as a comment about watchoutforthatsnail. It's not in the spirit of the site to comment about other posters when they're not around to defend themselves. If we see you doing this sort of thing again, we may have to take further action.

We understand you weren't the only one of that thread behaving this way, and please rest assured we treat everyone equally.^

Bollocks. There's no equality of treatment here. How can someone be banned for making a general comment that some people don't take criticism well and the best tactic is not to engage, whilst other people make deeply unpleasant comments on a regular basis and yet are free to post more of this crap whenever the fancy takes them?

There is no parity of treatment here. There has been disgraceful behaviour on this thread, but it's not come from me or Bant. It's come from MNHQ.

Shame on you.

KinNora Tue 10-Sep-13 19:41:46

Hear hear OWW, ill-judged, partisan and disgraceful behaviour from MNHQ.

GivesYouHell Tue 10-Sep-13 19:42:41

Thank you Snape! My phone won't allow you to PM you back, but I've added you on FB.

Noooo....I don't support Bants ban. Or other past bans around the same...err...issues.

All appears most unbalanced and poorly judged.

<awaits own ban>

FlorentinePogen Tue 10-Sep-13 19:48:33

Greetings to all from Northern climes. smile
Just delurking to agree with OWW. Absolutely shite moderating standards on this site at present and their "We treat everyone equally" mantra is just complete bilge.

SweetSeraphim Tue 10-Sep-13 19:50:10

I love the word bilge. It is onomatopoeic grin

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 10-Sep-13 19:54:17

BringBackBant

MNHQ - I am truly struggling to see why a remark about not engaging with an unnamed thread started by an unnamed poster - in response to a remark made by someone else - manages to break any guidelines, let alone earn a deletion/ban.

The deleted comment wasn't purely about not engaging; it did also contain a veiled personal attack.

And (we hope you all know) personal attacks on identifiable posters break Guidelines, whether the poster in question is on the thread or not.

Again - we do see that you're angry and disappointed about this - and we're genuinely sorry that so many of you think we've taken the wrong decision. We didn't do it lightly. But ultimately, we have to suspend people who cannot abide by our rules - otherwise there's really no point in having them.

We know that there is history here; over the past few months we've contacted quite a few posters (past and present) associated with this thread to remind them of our posting rules, and in some cases to take further steps.

That said, if there's something you think we're not aware of, we'd really like you to let us know about it. (Thanks to those of you who've done that already.)

HidingFromDD Tue 10-Sep-13 19:56:01

Long time lurker and sometime poster (from threads ranging from 1 to 45 I think). Completely agree with the bullying comments (and I'm sure this will get deleted also), and very disappointed the MNHQ don't appear to be treating people equally.

It has been great to read Bant's male perspective on things, and I do wonder whether the response would have been the same if it was MsBant posting.

Happy to add people on FB if you don't mind a lurker joining in

And congratulations to 49, Snameless and OWW (and I think I may be joining you but that's another story)

Just delurking to say WTAF! angry

Other posters have made such appalling attacks on here (especially one to do with mental health ages ago) that I literally gasped in shock at the utter vindictive, bullying and spite (and I do not shock easily).

Bant made a comment that barely raised an eyebrow and has been banned.

Is this a joke? I cannot actually believe this.

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 10-Sep-13 20:00:58

Flipper934

I'm not in favour of the bans or warnings, by the way. From what I can see, certain posters don't like the opinions of others, and complain bitterly (and with personal attacks) when they are posted. It upsets me that these personal attacks are not apparently responded to, whereas the reactions they provoke are.

Double standards from MNHQ in my view, which is a shame. I assume it's because they can only investigate those posts which are reported.

This is an important point actually: we do really need MNers to report anything they want us to look into. If you think someone is repeatedly posting personal attacks, please report them to us; we won't necessarily find out about it otherwise.

RockWithaJaggedyBit Tue 10-Sep-13 20:03:15

The deleted comment wasn't purely about not engaging; it did also contain a veiled personal attack.

Truly, truly staggered. MN, if you seriously consider that to be a veiled personal attack that warrants a ban I am amazed you have any posters left.

Snapespeare Tue 10-Sep-13 20:03:23

But rowanMNHQ it seems to me that the person who may or may not (...) be complaining as been equally guilty of 'thinly veiled attacks' against regular posters on this thread... It's just that they haven't been reported...and whilst I don't expect MNHQ to be all seeing with regard to unreported posts...& that two bans don't make a 'right', it looks one sided and vinictive

I'd like you to review your decision, please. smile

Snapespeare Tue 10-Sep-13 20:04:09

Gah. vindictive you got that.

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 10-Sep-13 20:06:01

OhWesternWind

Interestingly, I've reported several posts of Watch's on recent threads today and have had no response from MNHQ.

Apologies OhWesternWind - it's a busy evening and our inboxes are slightly on fire. We'll respond to everyone as soon as we can.

OhWesternWind

There's no equality of treatment here. How can someone be banned for making a general comment that some people don't take criticism well and the best tactic is not to engage, whilst other people make deeply unpleasant comments on a regular basis and yet are free to post more of this crap whenever the fancy takes them?

There is no parity of treatment here. There has been disgraceful behaviour on this thread, but it's not come from me or Bant. It's come from MNHQ.

Shame on you.

Well, obviously we're really sorry that you feel like that.

As we said in one of our previous posts, the remark that got Bant banned wasn't purely general; it did contain a veiled personal attack.

And nobody is 'free to post deeply unpleasant comments on a regular basis' - not if they break our Guidelines, anyway. But, again, we do need these things to be reported so that we can deal with them.

Secretservice Tue 10-Sep-13 20:08:15

So when Bant was accused, directly of being a strutting peacock, that warranted what? 36 minutes on the naughty step?

KinNora Tue 10-Sep-13 20:08:23

Also, while we're on decision explanations, what about the malicious personal messages that a number of us complained about ? How is that poster allowed to stay on the site and Bant gets booted off for nothing ?

FlorentinePogen Tue 10-Sep-13 20:08:59

Rowan,
It's really simple. Uber-Needy Poster 'A' posts incessantly regarding private life and lack of success with the opposite sex. Years of non-success in fact. Poster A seeks nothing but tea and sympathy and agreement from strangers.
But Lo! Poster 'B' replies and opines in a contrary manner and Poster A gets all aggressive and defensive. In fact, A is nearly always the instigator of nastiness and when anyone replies in a like manner, A is straight on to MN Towers baying for blood. Which, invariably, you provide.

You are banning the wrong people. Open your eyes.

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 10-Sep-13 20:10:07

Snapespeare

But rowanMNHQ it seems to me that the person who may or may not (...) be complaining as been equally guilty of 'thinly veiled attacks' against regular posters on this thread... It's just that they haven't been reported...and whilst I don't expect MNHQ to be all seeing with regard to unreported posts...& that two bans don't make a 'right', it looks one sided and vinictive

I'd like you to review your decision, please. smile

As we said in one of our previous posts - if Bant wants to contact us to talk about anything, he's very welcome to do so. (As is anyone else whose ability to post has been suspended.)

We're sure you'll understand why we can't go into great detail here about our dealings with Bant or with any other poster.

We like to think we have very few posting rules on MN, and that they're pretty clear. 'No personal attacks' is one of the most important. We do have to take steps when any poster repeatedly breaks the rules - otherwise there's not much point in us having them.

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 10-Sep-13 20:14:53

Secretservice

So when Bant was accused, directly of being a strutting peacock, that warranted what? 36 minutes on the naughty step?

Not quite sure which post you're referring to here, or whether it was reported - but if you want to report it now (or email in with further details) we'll take a look.

Secretservice Tue 10-Sep-13 20:15:33

I think we all understand that Rowan the problem is the outstanding injustice - unless you go running to teacher every time someone gets a bit snidey - you're a sitting target for PA posters. It's not fair and it's not just

splishsplosh Tue 10-Sep-13 20:16:11

Another mainly lurker, though I have posted before - and another who thinks the ban was incredibly unfair.I actually think that Bant has been remarkably calm and self controlled in the face of provocation.

It should be possible for posters to disagree and move on, but it seems that some people just don't accept that.

ALittleStranger Tue 10-Sep-13 20:16:39

MN it seems that you just look at the reported post. You don't look back to see whether someone has been goaded and goaded. It takes the willpower of a saint to ignore, ignore, ignore when posters are repeatedly posting about how bloody victimised they are, it's not fair, everyone's mean to them etc. When a child is standing in the middle of the room screaming you cannot continue to ignore, even if you should.

Also I think you have to acknowledge that Bant has had it particularly tough with constantly having to deal with claims that "all men on OD are X,Y, and Z". Now, I'm the last person in the world to defend the rights of menz, but I would have been bloody offended with some of the sweeping generalisations that he, DFU, Bill and others have had to put up with, and that does add another dynamic when they're dealing with those posters.

Also posters not being here to defend themselves equally means not here to see what's written about them. If someone is actually searching for something to take offence with that's their problem.

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 10-Sep-13 20:16:54

KinNora

Also, while we're on decision explanations, what about the malicious personal messages that a number of us complained about ? How is that poster allowed to stay on the site and Bant gets booted off for nothing ?

Again (and we do know this is hair-tearingly annoying), we can't go into detail about our dealings with other posters.

But please rest assured that anyone sending abusive PMs would, at the very least, get a warning that further behaviour along those lines would be likely to lead to a suspension.

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 10-Sep-13 20:19:16

Secretservice

I think we all understand that Rowan the problem is the outstanding injustice - unless you go running to teacher every time someone gets a bit snidey - you're a sitting target for PA posters. It's not fair and it's not just

Well, we really don't think of it as 'running to teacher' - obviously!

In the end, this is how MN works: people report, we take a look.

If it doesn't get reported, we're pretty unlikely to see it - unless it's on a thread that has already been drawn to our attention as containing a massive bunfight.

We know lots of you don't like doing it, but reporting is the only way to be completely sure that we'll be aware of something.

BringBackBant Tue 10-Sep-13 20:19:58

I understand entirely that the rules are there for a reason & that personal attacks are unacceptable. But I think the issue here is how on earth you can regard the vague remark made yesterday by Bant as an attack heinous enough to warrant kicking him off the site? Particularly in light of the completely "unveiled" attacks the other poster in question has made against others quite a few times in the past. And yet she's still here? It's the lack of even handedness that people are aghast at.

Bant, if you're reading, please contact MNHQ and talk to them about this. It is genuinely valuable to have you on this thread (and the others of a male persuasion) and you'd be welcomed back with a very gratifying fanfare if that is at all possible.

ALittleStranger Tue 10-Sep-13 20:21:38

And maybe just contact MNHQ to ask them to stop the innuendo about "other incidents". Unless you are a secret sex pest who's been sending cock shots via PM.

kaumana Tue 10-Sep-13 20:22:04

I agree with the others who are bewilderd that the comments made could be construed as a personal attack and yes I do lurk on this board and thread a lot!

So, can we expect vast amount of bannings and deletion of threads as a matter of course from now on across all boards due to paranoid posters reading slights that are not there

Secretservice Tue 10-Sep-13 20:23:01

No I won't report the peacock post, because it was aimed at Bant, who, because he's a grown up shrugged it off and made a joke of it. Second hand tittle tattle is even worse than first hand

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 10-Sep-13 20:24:52

ALittleStranger

MN it seems that you just look at the reported post. You don't look back to see whether someone has been goaded and goaded. It takes the willpower of a saint to ignore, ignore, ignore when posters are repeatedly posting about how bloody victimised they are, it's not fair, everyone's mean to them etc. When a child is standing in the middle of the room screaming you cannot continue to ignore, even if you should.

Also I think you have to acknowledge that Bant has had it particularly tough with constantly having to deal with claims that "all men on OD are X,Y, and Z". Now, I'm the last person in the world to defend the rights of menz, but I would have been bloody offended with some of the sweeping generalisations that he, DFU, Bill and others have had to put up with, and that does add another dynamic when they're dealing with those posters.

OK - we do understand that posters can find other posters wildly annoying. And that sometimes it takes nerve-shredding self-control not to respond.

But we can't, in the end, give posters carte blanche to launch personal attacks on anyone they find annoying.

What people can do - to their heart's content - is dispute, argue, and otherwise attack the content of another poster's post. That's fine.

But we need posters to play the ball, not the woman (or the man).

RockWithaJaggedyBit Tue 10-Sep-13 20:25:30

So let's get this straight. You can send abusive PMs and just get a slap on the wrist. Write a completely inoffensive post (veiled personal attack my arse) on the back of a long history of goading from the-poster-that-must-not-be-named and you get booted off the site.

Yep. That's fair.

KinNora Tue 10-Sep-13 20:27:06

Yes, but we did report the PMs, which were not just 'thinly veiled attacks' they were downright malicious, shit-stirring, vile attempts to turn people against another poster.

You seem like an intelligent reasonable group, the overwhelming majority are telling you you've made the wrong decision.

Snapespeare Tue 10-Sep-13 20:27:08

Dear MNHQ,

I have reported a post on dating thread 37 that calls me 'holier than thou' as I consider this to be a personal attack. I hope you take appropriate action.

Thanks now.

Snapespeare Tue 10-Sep-13 20:30:29

(& thank you for engaging with us tonight, even if it's not exactly what we want to hear)

(But thread 37 gives you a good background)

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 10-Sep-13 20:34:04

BringBackBant

I understand entirely that the rules are there for a reason & that personal attacks are unacceptable. But I think the issue here is how on earth you can regard the vague remark made yesterday by Bant as an attack heinous enough to warrant kicking him off the site? Particularly in light of the completely "unveiled" attacks the other poster in question has made against others quite a few times in the past. And yet she's still here? It's the lack of even handedness that people are aghast at.

Well - again - and with apologies - we can't discuss our dealings with other posters. Which probably partly explains why our decisions can sometimes look unfair from the outside; nobody beyond the poster in question and MNHQ knows the full story about what has been said and done behind the scenes. We do know this is frustrating for those looking on.

We do, genuinely, bend over backwards to be even-handed. We may sometimes cock up, but it's honestly not because we're playing favourites.

RaspberryGirl Tue 10-Sep-13 20:34:54

Another lurker...

Staggered. I read the thread(s) in question as they were happening last night. Either I'm clearly stupid or there has been a gross injustice.

Not sure what I'll do if you all stop posting. This thread has been invaluable since I stepped into the murky world of OD.

Thank you. I feel like I know you all.

ALittleStranger Tue 10-Sep-13 20:36:10

What people can do - to their heart's content - is dispute, argue, and otherwise attack the content of another poster's post. That's fine

Right but this is the problem. Let's say, for example, someone says "all men on OD are crap, I have been ODing for five years and nothing has come off it, therefore the problem is every man I've encountered in the past five years". Now, lots of us might disagree with that, lots of us may have observed aspects of that poster that point to other reasons why they have been single. Now, how is any comment that challenges their world view and suggests the problem is with them, not going to be seen as a personal attack?

This is the problem of trying to moderate a relationship board. People ask for advice, they ask why something is going wrong, they ask people to look at the profiles and critique their appearance and personality. These are personal things. The content of a post about this is going to be personal, can you not see that sensitive posters will take any criticism of their behaviour as a personal attack? Which is why you are left ignoring, which sometimes, just sometimes, becomes difficult. Any apparently any frustrated aside to this effect is a banning offence.

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 10-Sep-13 20:36:31

KinNora

Yes, but we did report the PMs, which were not just 'thinly veiled attacks' they were downright malicious, shit-stirring, vile attempts to turn people against another poster.

You seem like an intelligent reasonable group, the overwhelming majority are telling you you've made the wrong decision.

Yes, we did get those reports - and we did take action. Suspending someone's ability to post (unless they're an outright pervy troll or other blatant ban-candidate) comes at the end of a long-ish line of actions we take.

Most posters on here don't go 'running to teacher' at every nasty, vindictive, bullying comment made by others, because they are adults who presumably just roll their eyes and then get on with their lives. So frequent posts that are blatant and unpleasant personal attacks just go unnoticed by MNHQ.

'Other posters' complain and report on a regular basis, and so get heard by HQ.

As someone who's followed this thread for a very long time, the injustice here is beyond a joke. I don't actually think that ANYONE has ever posted anything here that warranted a ban. But to ban Bant on the basis of that tepid comment he made the other day, when compared to the abuse received by many posters on many previous occasions is just beyond a joke.

Seriously MNHQ, you have made a huge error here and need to rethink.

BoreOfWhabylon Tue 10-Sep-13 20:37:02

Another one who has lurked intermittently on these threads for a long time now and joining in to say you really really have got it wrong this time MNHQ.

Given there is a lot of backstory unpleasantness that has obviously not been drawn to your attention and you really do appear to have been given only one side of things, is it not possible to issue an amnesty just this once? Unless, of course, something really beyond the pale has occurred.

Those posters who received vile PMs perhaps, if you haven't deleted them, could forward to MNHQ as corroboration.

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 10-Sep-13 20:38:54

By the way - we do need to be careful, please, to ensure that this thread doesn't itself become an extended personal attack on another poster.

Very specific questions are probably best dealt with off-board - you're welcome to report any post on this thread to ask us about something, or just email us on contactus@mumsnet.com

But we can't let this turn into an extended picking-apart of an identifiable poster.

WTF has happened here?! Why Bant?!

I was going to come back, well if you lot remember me grin

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 10-Sep-13 20:42:23

ALittleStranger

*What people can do - to their heart's content - is dispute, argue, and otherwise attack the content of another poster's post. That's fine*

Right but this is the problem. Let's say, for example, someone says "all men on OD are crap, I have been ODing for five years and nothing has come off it, therefore the problem is every man I've encountered in the past five years". Now, lots of us might disagree with that, lots of us may have observed aspects of that poster that point to other reasons why they have been single. Now, how is any comment that challenges their world view and suggests the problem is with them, not going to be seen as a personal attack?

This is the problem of trying to moderate a relationship board. People ask for advice, they ask why something is going wrong, they ask people to look at the profiles and critique their appearance and personality. These are personal things. The content of a post about this is going to be personal, can you not see that sensitive posters will take any criticism of their behaviour as a personal attack? Which is why you are left ignoring, which sometimes, just sometimes, becomes difficult. Any apparently any frustrated aside to this effect is a banning offence.

Yes, we do see what you're saying - but we don't automatically delete posts that are reported for being personal attacks; we do look at them fairly closely. And we won't delete something if we think that the reporter is just being over-sensitive.

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ)