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Dh secret savings

(100 Posts)
Lotsofswearwords Thu 05-Sep-13 19:19:31

My lovely dh has always been a secretive bastard. Keeps all his papers, bank statements either in his office or under lock and key at home.
I tried snooping once and when I finally found the key to his filing cabinet I came across old love letters from his affair during his first marriage. I knew about her, but not about letters. No matter, you might be saying, its all in the past... But of course I'm not allowed same privilege, I have to get rid of such stuff! And being a very open person who doesn't hide things, I thought it better to chuck the lot. No regrets except anger at dh and his double standards.
Snooped today, actually on legit business, looking for online banking details of my and our joint accounts in the hope of being able to do this myself and not be forced to rely on dh. Same folder held details of an account worth about 15,000 pounds... Let me stress its not so much the money, its the secrecy and the actual lying to me that he has no spare cash. We put near equal amounts into joint account for utilities, he earns a lot more than me but pays maintence for dsd, school fees for dss... Any big expenditure we take out small loan together. I don't have a problem with this, I have own ds and even though I still feel like lp raising him, I'm capable and earn a wage.
Please tell me I'm being unreasonable in my anger, that its actually the done thing for married partners to keep loads of money secret.
Sorry for ranting.
When he takes me on trips he pretends to be generous by "paying for everything", but woe betide me if I don't chip in for eating out, entrance fees, etc. I've always been happy to do this, I've never ever been spoiled in my life, its in my nature to pay my way. But now I feel sick, all the time he has been pretending to be hard done by after divorce, high child support costs, etc. and there he is with a small fortune stashed away.
Btw, I'll be getting paid out a slightly lesser amount from an insurance in a few years. Yet dh knows all about this, I was offering to pay for a second bathroom in our house, just to show what's mine is yours!!! I feel such a fool.
Dh is coming home after a week long business trip tomorrow, at least that's what I'm lead to believe... Should I confront him or play dead?

Money is either shared or its not. Decisions while married are to be taken together.

So I would start a joint discussion about plans for the 15k

Lotsofswearwords Thu 05-Sep-13 19:37:51

Thanks for reading, Laurie.
It's not even that I want to share, he can stuff it all up his a#%e for all I care. I feel gutted that he won't tell me, like I can't be trusted! I know when I confront him he'll start going on about the exw and how she took him to the cleaners. It's so insulting that he sees no difference between us, like we're some kind of interchangeable women, all out to get him.
We both have kids from first marriages that we want to take care of, I get that. But I still want to talk about how we do that. If he wants to buy his dsd a new car for her 18th,,then fine! But we just bought a second hand one together...
I just can't imagine any scenario atm where his secrecy makes sense. I would understand any mad plan he had, mid life crisis project, anything!!!! He says I'm his best friend. Like hell!

somersethouse Thu 05-Sep-13 19:47:57

My DH keeps all his money secret, I think because of his first divorce. I have no idea how much or where it is.
His business, but has always been so.

Your situation sounds different though, you pay your way and he is actually lying. I would most definitely ask him about it. You both have DC's from previous marriages? Your funds should be discussed beacause of them. Me and DH have one DD together and he has another grown up DD who has no longer needs to support as she is almost 30.

flowers Sorry you are upset and I totally see why you are.

Fairenuff Thu 05-Sep-13 19:48:29

Well, you say he has always been secretive so I'm not sure why you are surprised to find that he has kept secrets from you.

You will need to decide what you can live with, then have a discussion with him.

Dh and I don't have his 'n' her money, we have family money. I don't think either of us would like it any other way.

somersethouse Thu 05-Sep-13 19:50:05

Ah, sorry Xposted.
Yes, it will be because of his first divorce.
Leave him be, honestly, it is only money and it is his money.
Sorry if that sounds lame, but that is how I see it with my DH.

somersethouse Thu 05-Sep-13 19:51:31

Do you have, or have plans to have a child together as I think that makes a difference.

runningonwillpower Thu 05-Sep-13 19:53:24

I don't understand what marriage means if it doesn't mean sharing everything. Money too.

Lotsofswearwords Thu 05-Sep-13 19:57:00

Somerset, I'd be really interested to know why we have different set ups and you are so calm about your dh money. Is it that he makes you and dd feel secure and looked after? Admittedly, I don't have that feeling.

Fairenuff, good point. I suppose because I believe him when he says how much he loves me and how happy I make him and he opens up and shares his feelings. What a liar!

tribpot Thu 05-Sep-13 19:57:27

Leave him be? He's making her contribute 50% to the household expenses when he earns far more, on the basis that his expenses (for his children) soak up all the spare cash. This is a lie.

He insists on keeping his memorabilia from his affair during his first marriage but the OP has to get rid of hers.

Nobody made him get married again. If he wants to be once bitten twice shy, he shouldn't have made the same commitment to a second wife. But he did. They could have lived apart and had separate finances and still had a relationship. That would seem to be what he wants.

Lotsofswearwords Thu 05-Sep-13 19:59:54

Ps
No we don't have kids together. Dh didn't want to support more. Now I'm too old. Should have realized then he's a greedy bastard.
I think he only married me because I do pay my way, I'll never ask him for anything (too proud).
It's the secrecy and the lying, a total cliche, I know.

Lotsofswearwords Thu 05-Sep-13 20:02:49

Tribpot, totally agree with you there.
I so wish I had stayed in my own place and we just dated.
But dh could not wait for us to move in together, get our own place so all the kids would feel at home...
It feels like he married me to give him free sex, mother his kids, and pay my own way. I hate myself for thinking he ever loved me.

somersethouse Thu 05-Sep-13 20:03:16

Sorry, I did not mean to offend. I suppose when I married DH I knew he had issues because of his previous divorce which was ten years prior.

He would never abandon his responsibilites to DD (which is all I care about) and the law where I live in Spain, guarantees that.

I contribute 50% and him 50%, he just has his stash!

Not keen at all on the not being allowed to keep memorabilia I am sorry, I missed that bit, that sounds really controlling.

Walkacrossthesand Thu 05-Sep-13 20:03:50

Do you know if the money predates ypu getting married, or has been saved while you budgeted? if the latter, if nothing else, withdraw your offer to fund 2nd bathroom from your upcoming insurance money - now you know he has that much squirrelled away, it's time at least to re-assess how you divvy up domestic costs in relation to earnings. It's simply not just for one marriage partner to be secretly saving while the other one's income is all accounted for.

somersethouse Thu 05-Sep-13 20:07:22

Good point walkacross, I was presuming it predated. It not, then out of order.

Fairenuff Thu 05-Sep-13 20:07:41

Well it's good news really OP because, as you are married, all assets are joint assets, so you just found yourself £7,500 richer!

Seriously, tell him you found out about the account and talk to him. If he continues to be secretive you'll have to decide whether you want to stay with him.

runningonwillpower Thu 05-Sep-13 20:08:58

Who is saying he doesn't love you? Maybe he does, but he's somehow confused love and marriage with an independent financial life. You need to talk to him about that. And what marriage means to him.

I just think it's 'not married' to look at who is paying for the dinner.

For example, in our marriage, skint means no-one is eating out. Flush means, shall we eat out?

somersethouse Thu 05-Sep-13 20:18:52

It does not mean he doesn't love you, of course not.

Lotsofswearwords Thu 05-Sep-13 20:23:58

Thank you all so much for reading my rants. I feel among friends!
No offense ever taken somerset.
The money is probably from a couple of bonuses over the last few years, he often mentions them, never the exact amount, and I never know when they're being paid. But then when he acts skint I assume it was all talk to impress me and so I don't ask any questions.
I'd like to think he loves me but we've been to couple counseling for several issues and only today it occurred to me that as soon as we clear up one problem, he puts another in our way, almost as if he doesn't wish us to become that close (wtf?). I thought I was being paranoid or menopausal (47) but then I found the stash.

Laska42 Thu 05-Sep-13 20:27:38

I know my DH Has 'secret' savings of quite a lot (although he has told me where all the bank details are)..and he's planning on using them to pay off mortgage early . Actually im glad he does because I have a secret credit card debt (its not a lot really about 3k ,and hopefully ill be able to pay it off before the 0% runs out) but he doeskin know how much it is and so they really are secret! Also he doesnt know that i often secretly pay my DS rent when he's skint ..

All marriages and LTRs have secrets , but its when you or he is doing stuff in that might damage the relationship I think you'd need to be worried

Dahlen Thu 05-Sep-13 20:34:57

All marriages are different. Some will have completely joint and transparent finances; others will have completely separate finances and complete autonomy over their own financial affairs with joint purchases always negotiated. It really doesn't matter as long as it is fair.

This is not.

Lotsofswearwords Thu 05-Sep-13 20:36:45

Thanks for sharing Laska, you made me smile!
I suppose the only way to counter the imbalance is to have secrets myself. The trouble is I can't keep secrets well. I want to be able to trust my partner and I love sharing, even money!
The stress of keeping my statements hidden or making excuses for having/ not having money would be terrible.
Maybe I'm suffering from some kind of mh problem. Even now I'm thinking of writing dh an email so that he can come up with a reasonable excuse before he comes back, I'm so pathetic,

AnyFucker Thu 05-Sep-13 20:39:12

This isn't my idea of a "marriage"

he doesn't trust you one iota, and now he has proved he is untrustworthy too

grim

Dahlen Thu 05-Sep-13 20:45:45

There's nothing wrong with you OP, honestly.

Lots of people fall foul of expensive divorce settlements (me included) that have not resulted in them being bitter and secretive about money. His attitude is far more about a character flaw on his part than it is about being emotionally scarred.

I have no issue with someone having savings. IMO it would be ideal if everyone should have a stash that they can use to support themselves in the event of a rainy day. Likewise, for people in second marriages, it can be important to create savings accounts and write wills that act as a way of protecting assets for the children from a first marriage. NOthing wrong with any of that. But if it's not transparent then something is wrong with the marriage. Anyone who feels the need to be that secretive about their financial accounts either has a bad marriage or has 'issues' that they need to deal with.

In this case I think it's the latter. I base that on the fact that not only is he being secretive but he's actively lying and manipulating the OP into paying for more than her fair share of things so he can accrue his savings.

Lotsofswearwords Thu 05-Sep-13 20:48:56

Grim, I agree.
Our couple counseler once comforted me by saying, not to worry, he's really a nice fellow, let's just sort out all the nitty gritty. And I, poor fool, thought we were.
Sometimes I think there is sth wrong with him. How can he throw away all he has got now by being such an arse?
His family love me, apparently I'm SO different to wife no1, even his kids think me fabulous now.
I know I'll confront him tomorrow as I just don't have a poker face. I think he already knows something's afoot because he just called and I did not sound v happy and kept the call short.
I'm afraid of being right, though, that he'll trot out his usual "I'm sorry you feel that way" and not an actual apology. Couple counseling can't work miracles (obviously) and I will sink into a depression if I can't forgive him.

Lotsofswearwords Thu 05-Sep-13 20:54:43

X posted Dahlen, but strangely same thinking.
My exh also walked away a happy man after our divorce, which I asked for. This did not make me suspicious or man hating or mean.
If dh and I were constantly fighting about money I'd understand.
But his constant I love yous makes this feel like a total stab in the back. I just can't get over it.
Does anybody think it might be a good idea to show him this link?

Dahlen Thu 05-Sep-13 20:56:41

What you need is to see your inability to forgive him as a positive step. It paints you as a strong person who will not tolerate being taken for a mug. You shouldn't be depressed about that; you should be proud. Far better to face up to a bad situation and deal with it than to allow yourself to remain in it through fear of changing the status quo. That's the quickest route to annihilating your self-esteem IMO.

It may help to have a think about what you want to happen, what you expect to happen, what you will accept, what you won't accept, and what you intend to do in a worse case scenario. It will make you feel better prepared for a difficult conversation. Good luck.

AnyFucker Thu 05-Sep-13 20:57:57

I wouldn't. It's likely he will call us a bunch of man-hating harridans.

I would keep this place just for you. It might not be a secret on the same scale as his, but you might need it more than you think if you are waking up to his true character.

Lotsofswearwords Thu 05-Sep-13 20:58:58

Thanks Dahlen. That's made me feel a lot better and more in charge of the situation.
I've taken up driving again to help my self esteem issues. And the gym!

Dahlen Thu 05-Sep-13 20:59:30

Depends what you hope to achieve by showing him. I suspect that he will turn it round on you and act all wounded.

If you want to show him the link to demonstrate that actually most people agree with you rather than him, you really don't need to. You don't need validation from other people. What you think and feel is good enough.

Lotsofswearwords Thu 05-Sep-13 21:00:09

Anyfucker,
Good point. Again, though, why do I feel this need to share and he doesn't?

Laska42 Thu 05-Sep-13 21:00:22

I share everything else with my Dh , but I'm lucky in that I earn a reasonable wage.. And yes My credit card debt is a bit of a 'dirty secret' that perhaps i really shouldn't have , aand yes its got to the stage where I simply now cannot add to it ), but he married me knowing I'm not a saver , . However i have changed also due to his influence and now pay a significant AVC on my pension each month for our retirement plan (a campervan and world trip ) not least because its goes into a safe account before I can get to it .. .

However, due to its bad influence on me, I have gone 'cold turkey' on the 'Style and Beauty' thread here on Mumsnet now,.... its far too dangerous.. I'm also starting to shop in Lidl .. I need that card to be paid off before christmas..

Oh well ..i'd better start selling on e bay again.

OP only you can decide if you trust him .. he may have got burnt before.. but If you dont think he's being deliberately mean or really secretive ( and my DH isnt and im not either - he does know I have an ongoing cc debt just not how much ) then its probably ok

Lotsofswearwords Thu 05-Sep-13 21:01:37

God, I'm actually in tears now. Thanks for all this incredible support.

AnyFucker Thu 05-Sep-13 21:04:53

Again, though, why do I feel this need to share and he doesn't?

Because you are a generous person and he, well, isn't

Dahlen Thu 05-Sep-13 21:05:51

Sharing is what most people do when they love someone. Sharing and the spirit of co-operation is what all functional relationships are based on - from the romantic to the wider community.

You are not an over-sharer. You are not greedy. You are merely asking for the man with whom you promised to share all your worldly goods and both your lives to live up to his end of a perfectly normal and reasonable agreement.

Laska42 Thu 05-Sep-13 21:06:13

(((hugs))) Lots IMHO (i may be shot down here ) but dont make this a 'relationship deal breaker' it really doesn't sound like it to me ( though I know others may think differently.) Only you know how you and he are.. and he doesn't sound like a real b*stard to me..

LookingForwardToVino Thu 05-Sep-13 21:08:44

I just couldn't live like that op it's awful!

It's not so much the separate savings (though the not sharing everything concept is odd to me)

It's the lies about not having any spare cash, going through getting loans when you as a couple already have money, and the secrecy that just seems VERY wrong and not like a healthy marriage.

wannaBe Thu 05-Sep-13 21:10:07

I have never got this idea of his money, my money in a marriage. That kind of setup just wouldn't work for me. But that being said, I have seen plenty of threads where women are encouraged to have a secret savings account their husband doesn't know about "just in case." so on balance I'm not sure this is any different?

charlieandlola Thu 05-Sep-13 21:10:15

I keep my finances secret. I would never let my dh know how much debt or savings I have. It is none of his business.As long as there is food on the table, our cars are under 10 years old and do not break down, and we have three holidays a year, he does not care. I am grateful for his lack of interest and devolved autonomy to me. His money, however is my business as he is the primary wage earner and pays the mortgage, which keeps us in a safe home.
However, this works for us and we talk about it.
This does not sound ok, based on what you have said about your relationship.
I would be starting a discussion, if I were you.

Dahlen Thu 05-Sep-13 21:10:34

Laska, I would make it a relationship deal breaker not because of the money (though £15,000 is a significant amount), but because of the lying, manipulation, blaming and downright fraud the OP's H has inflicted on her. Insisting that she "pays her fair share" when he is saving up his own funds by deliberately misleading her into thinking that he's paying out far more on school fees and maintenance is ripping her off. That's not what decent men do.

JoinYourPlayfellows Thu 05-Sep-13 21:13:02

He's not really very lovely, is he?

Laska42 Thu 05-Sep-13 21:15:04

dahlen thats a fair point.. maybe I missed that bit , so ill read back and reconsider .. Perhaps I'm only thinking in terms of my own experience/ marriage

MissMarplesBloomers Thu 05-Sep-13 21:16:02

Sounds to me like there is a lot of distrust & unhappiness over many things OP.

Are you unhappy in the marriage, this secret aside? What made you want to look now after years of knowing what he is like?

Lotsofswearwords Thu 05-Sep-13 21:21:06

Laska, you have given me a bit of hope. I'm actually reading a book atm called "don't sweat the small stuff, and its all small stuff!"
However, lookingforwrad expresses my real fear: this simply isn't a healthy marriage. And although I could kick myself for being so open and trusting, deep down I know its dh being a prick and ruining it for us all.
And even if he comes home and says, look sweety, I've bought you a 14k diamond ring (fat chance), the shine would go off it knowing that he'd be keeping 1k a secret, iyswim.
It's like I sometimes read on other relationship threads, men only own up to what you can prove, their cheating and such.
Should I just give up hope of encountering honesty in dh? And work at my own cloak and dagger skills instead

Lotsofswearwords Thu 05-Sep-13 21:34:53

Missmarples, gut feelings?
Our next counseling session is coming up shortly and I felt uneasy because every time we solve a problem dh seems to come up with another, seemingly to keep me at arms length, while telling me he loves me ad nauseum.
I've always tried to see his pov, but who says he tells me the truth about his first marriage. Exw is a bit odd to put it mildly, but maybe I've just been seeing her wrongly. Found out a lie recently: was told by dh that he was disgusted a person/ family he had befriended chose friendship with exw over him. Now dsd tells me out of the blue this woman was in her mums pregnancy circle (I also made friends this way so understand this completely) and dh said it was possible, but somehow thrown that I had so easily come by this information.
Are all men natural liars?

Laska42 Thu 05-Sep-13 21:39:00

I'm glad lots id my alternative thoughts help a little but i dont know if im right or not, as i dont know you or him . Like I said whatever others are saying ( and they could be entirely right and me barking u pthe wrong tree) only you know how you feel and how you think you and he are..
Sometime gut feelings are good and sometimes its possible to read too much into situations. and we dont know from what you've said too much of the overall tenor of your relationship.

I suppose that without asking him direct youllnot know why he would prefer for you both to take out a loan for stuff if the money is there ( and that sounds like it could either be because he is just majorily over cautious and feels that a slush fund is always available , or indeed that he is secretive or mean to the detriment of your marriage ) ,

MY DH I know doesnt feel comfortable without 'fuck off money' in the bank (thats is FO from his job , not me he assures me)

Maybe I am too much of an an appeaser.. but also maybe its possible to over think and make 2+2 +5

( Laska now ducks..grin)

Laska42 Thu 05-Sep-13 21:42:39

2+2=5 of course (duh!! fat fingers!) grin

AnyFucker Thu 05-Sep-13 21:51:34

No, not all men are natural liars...just the deceitful ones

Lotsofswearwords Thu 05-Sep-13 21:52:06

Laska, I've no problem with a FO fund. I'd be happy to let dh call it that, if he'd only say I get to call my future windfall the same, not letting me think, poor dh, he's not got any, better not spend it on myself or ds then.
The lying piece of shit
Sorry, ranting again.
The worst part is that every year apparently another huge chunk of respect I have for dh breaks off and drifts away and melts.
Maybe that's my problem. I need to respect the man I sleep with. I guess I need to lighten up on that confused

You definitely need to talk to him about it - but try to at least have an open-ish mind when you do. Try to discuss the money first and clear that up before you/or even better separately to any other issues in your marriage.

There could be (playing devil's advocate here) a very, very simple and genuine reason for the money - it could be a savings account for his DC. It could be savings for DC uni fees? Paying off mortgage early. Holiday of a lifetime upon retirement? If you work it our you can save nearly £15K just by putting £100 a month in a savings account for 12-13years. And £100 may just go out of his account on payday as a regular direct debit so his claims for being strapped for cash may feel to him to be true. I do this with my/our savings until we spent them all on a moneypit of a house renovation The money is never there to spend - it has gone. Not to be touched. If it is for/has been saved for a long time he may not really even think about it. DH has an savings account set up 12 years ago that has £30 a month in. We forget it exists until we get the yearly statement. Couldn't tell you now how much is in it.

So he could be prudent, wise and to be lauded for saving (though the secrecy not so great).

Or he could be being secretive and manipulative.

I guess you know him, and his reaction to the question (as long as you do not "attack" IYSWIM) may help you work out how to move forward.

Laska42 Thu 05-Sep-13 22:00:57

I think you always need to be able to respect (and trust) the man you sleep with...and he the woman he sleeps with . That's a fundamental in a good partnership .

( no civil partners/ SSps intented to be excluded her smile)

Lotsofswearwords Thu 05-Sep-13 22:01:57

And just because we're on the subject of second bathrooms, the need arose because there is a queue when all dc are here, especially when dsd, 16, is staying over. An absolutely natural requirement, i do understand, to hog bathroom in the mornings at this age, same as my ds, 15. But him I feel I can hurry on, her less so...it would seem mean or wicked stepmotherish.
I'd gladly have her stay more often during the week, but its a small house... There is the possibility of building a second bathroom next to her downstairs bedroom. We were seriously contemplating a loan for this! Turns out, dh could make everybody really happy here, but chooses not to.

onefewernow Thu 05-Sep-13 22:54:21

Secrecy in a marriage is not on.

Secrecy where you are not allowed it is abusive and/or controlling. End of.

Lotsofswearwords Fri 06-Sep-13 06:49:16

I was thinking about privacy this morning. But privacy is something you both agree on, like locking the toilet door. Or using the bedroom as opposed to the kitchen for getting changed.
I'm trying to stay calm and reasonable here.
Having read so many threads on cheating husbands, I feel I can liken this to an emotional affair.
I wish I had his nerve, to be able to face me in couple counseling to work at our marriage and be undermining it at the same time.
I realize I'm rambling now...
Oh well, off to work. I'm going to be thinking about trust next.

wearetheocean Fri 06-Sep-13 08:54:29

Hmm. I'm a very private person generally and I don't share as much with DH as other seem to, I don't agree with the blanket statement there is no place for secrets in a marriage at all. DH is a very open person like you, but I like to keep my boundaries and some level of distance in our relationship. It's not about control but just because I'm a private person and I keep things to myself a lot (I am like this with everyone, including friends and family so it's not just about how I am with DH). I'd hate him to read any of my MN posts, for example, even though I never say anything on here that I wouldn't say to his face.

I also have a separate savings account, with a similar amount to the OP's DH. It's partly my 'running away fund' (nothing in my relationship to suggest I need one, but I've needed one in the past and so I wouldn't feel secure without it), plus I might also need a sum to support my own DS (not DH's child) with his health/education (he has SN), and I'd want it to be funded separately from the household finances. I wonder if it might be linked to the fact that your dss is at private school - it is not a huge amount for someone funding private school (similar to a year's fees/activities for a senior school) and I can understand the wish to have a year's fees put away and to prioritise that above non-essential household improvements. And if your dsd is 16 then I expect she could have lots of things that your DH would want to fund (driving lessons/uni). I think it's quite common to keep finances more separate where there are stepchildren rather than joint dc

Having said that, I have never lied outright about having savings, it's just not been mentioned as we're able to fund our main expenses out of our joint income. DH doesn't discuss his own finances much, but keeps his paperwork freely available if I wanted to see it (I did look when we first got together, but it's always very boring and I don't bother now). I would never choose to get a loan though over spending savings, as it makes no sense financially.

somersethouse Fri 06-Sep-13 09:24:09

lotsof hope you are ok this morning. Having read your very sweet and thoughtful post about the bathroom I have changed my view for your situation (last night I said I thought it was ok to have a secret stash)

I think your situation is different from just having a secret stash, I think your husband is being dishonest.

You sound like a lovely person and stepmother. I hope you can resolve this with him, in that he listens to you and respects your point of view, he does sound unfair. flowers

whatsthepointofasking Fri 06-Sep-13 09:34:19

I wouldn't object to DH having 15k in an account not to be used. I would object to not knowing about it.

Snorbs Fri 06-Sep-13 09:48:05

Our next counseling session is coming up shortly and I felt uneasy because every time we solve a problem dh seems to come up with another, seemingly to keep me at arms length, while telling me he loves me ad nauseum.

Are these counselling sessions where you both get equal time to raise issues and have them discussed and resolved, or is it more just him raising a seemingly endless list of issues he has with you?

Val007 Fri 06-Sep-13 09:55:18

I am all for transparency and joint finances. Separate finances are just too much hard work and do not tie up with my idea of marriage. They impact on general trust in the relationship and brew too many unnecessary hard feelings. And no, DH is not the higher earner, but me! And yes, I have been burned by men and money issues in the past for being too trusting, but no, not willing to let this stand in the way of my belief that finances should be joint in a marriage.

Not sure if this is helpful to you though...

utreas Fri 06-Sep-13 11:09:23

If he is paying for school fees which are expensive then it seems prudent that he build up a reserve fund should his earning potential be compromised for some reason. As for you not knowing if the money is for this reason then why does it matter whether you know about it or not, it would make no difference to you in this circumstance.

Lotsofswearwords Fri 06-Sep-13 11:32:15

I do think it the knowing makes a difference.
Particularly as dh knows my financial situation, can check up on it online and on paper (and does) and knows about and reaps the benefit of property I own abroad (inherited family home) as we go there on holiday (he generously invited all my inlaws to go on holiday there too!).
It's just the feeling I can't shake that I'm being taken mildly for granted, used in a very subtle way and now have proof that I'm not a paranoid nitpicker.
I'm fine with sharing what I've got, and I'm fine with dh building a nest egg for himself (or securing children's education), but I'm not fine his doing so in secret. That's all. I'm not going to take it away from him and he knows me, he knows how I do things (I did not marry for money, neither first time nor second time. Dh was skint when we met and still I supported him and his kids when the situation with exw was a bIt hairy).

Now the tables have turned, his income has increased and as dss now lives 50:50 with us he pays maintenance for one child only. School fees for dss are practically negligible now.

I don't believe anything about his divorce anymore. Maybe exw took him to the cleaners because he was a tightfisted bastard all along.We don't talk (he absolutely forbade me to contact her when problems arose, said she'd only lie about him...).

Had a chat with a friend in RL this morning and she told me of a similar situation. Her friend earns little, they have 2 own kids and he has separate account and makes her ask for money. This sounds worse.

nostress Fri 06-Sep-13 12:49:24

My sister is in the same situation. And i get myself into rages about it.

In my own marriage we have a a joint bank account, he earns all the money & i deal with it. I'm not currently working, something he supports so that I can support the children. He basically has nothing to do with the money at all. In fact all the savings are in my name. Last week he got a big bonus and as soon as it was paid into the joint bank i transferred it into my own savings account. The reason for this is tax, it simply makes sense to have it in my name. He completely trusts me and so he should. I don't think i personally could be with someone who didn't have the same attitude. I would be so so shocked if he had a secret account.

Thinking about your husbands perspective i do think there are logical reasons to have it and still take out a loan. We have been advised to have enough money set asside to cover a years expenses in case of emergency. We have this in savings yet in the past we have taken out loans(mortgage) and not touched these funds. If you are written off sick for a long time you would find it difficult to take out loans. Better to have emergency funds accessible to cover it. It could be his desire to be able to support his family in difficult times. Although i still think he should have told you. If this is just a normal bank account then he would not be able to hide these funds in case of divorce.

AnyFucker Fri 06-Sep-13 12:54:35

I don't think your joint counselling is helping at all.

It's also rather interesting that you are "forbidden" to talk to his exW

I expect you will get a very different story from her

paperlantern Fri 06-Sep-13 13:38:33

I'm all for seperateness in finances, (I had appalling experiences with exH) BUT there MUST be openness and honesty as well.

YOU must not contribute equally if your income is unequal, as essentially allowing one partner to benefit financially from the other. You should be contributing proportionally, according to ability. No partner should be able to aquire 15000 out of JOINT funds without the other person knowing.

Retain separate control over your bank accounts,savings etc yes, (I would never have a joint account again). But both parties should be open with their partners having sight of all accounts AND wage slips so they know exactly where family money goes

paperlantern Fri 06-Sep-13 13:42:01

Yes you are being taken for granted and, worse.

Secret savings allow him a little nest egg that you have no idea about in case you ever divorce. You are paying for that "just in case" now

you are putting yourself in a very vulnerable position indeed

paperlantern Fri 06-Sep-13 13:43:14

Yes I'm pretty sure exH 2nd wife is forbidden from talking to me. I'd not only tell them I'd provide paper evidence as well grin

Lotsofswearwords Fri 06-Sep-13 16:17:09

Haha! What a bitter lot we are...

No, money isn't in an account, its in bonds (xeroxed it) I just checked the date and it appears the amount was originally put in a savings book, 2 years into our marriage (and him still poor mouthing). The change to savings bonds was made in May, this year, about half way through counseling (since January). Considering he has received more bonuses since then, and saved a packet on maintenance, its actually likely he has other assets hidden away too (I'm not snooping anymore, I feel sick just thinking about what I found now).

And yes, I'd also like to start saving again too, I've always had the odd savings book and teach my child to do the same.
But dh is saving this money because he contributes way under his earnings, forcing me to hand over more from my pay, so that I can't save at all now. And why are we spending so much? Mostly its supplying dcs (2 out of 3 are his) with whatever they want. and as they enjoy a rather privileged lifestyle, (mum and gps pretty wealthy) we of course need to keep up our end. How awful for them if they couldn't have special treats here too! And isn't dh lucky to have me pay half!
Sorry, rambling. It's not them I'm mad at. All the dc get on great and I see it as "paying rent for siblings" I could not previously provide ds smile

But dh is actively preventing me from building a nest egg for myself or ds. That is unfair, no matter how you look at it. Maybe I should make him pay for sex? He's always very eager and obviously atm I'm selling myself way too cheap... Then he can decide if he wants to wank alone for free or pay me, the maid/housekeeper/roommate/whatever-except-wife??

paperlantern Fri 06-Sep-13 17:04:24

yes you and your kids lifestyle is subsidising his savings.

also the way he has done it (if you were to divorce) would be very hard to track. 6 months of accounts wouldn't show a payment out. He just doesn't declare the bonds chances are you would never know, court takes what they see on trust unless you can prove otherwise.

particularly if the money is taken out in small amounts of cash on a weekly basis.
sad

paperlantern Fri 06-Sep-13 17:06:36

ps it's not bitter to call a spade a spade

Apocalypto Fri 06-Sep-13 17:23:58

Is keeping money secret from you the only way to stop you spending it?

I have that problem.

paperlantern Fri 06-Sep-13 17:34:57

apolcalyto - what a stupid message. You can prevent access to money by having separate accounts. you don't have to hide you have the savings

AnyFucker Fri 06-Sep-13 17:37:05

Apocalypto, that's seems a sad message, not a stupid one. Are you ok ? Who is the compulsive spender.....you or your partner ?

perfectstorm Fri 06-Sep-13 17:45:00

If you are subsidising his kids while he expects you to pay half of everything on a far lower salary, then you are subsidising his lifestyle.

And he seems to control who you can talk to and what you can keep, while keeping what the hell he likes - including a share of your money.

He cheated on his wife and then seemingly believes that supporting his own children and giving her a share of the family assets when she very understandably divorced him was "being taken to the cleaners"? I would love to hear his wife's version. His trying to ban you from hearing it is the biggest possible indication he's told you a less than honest version, or why would "her lies" be any threat to his marriage?

You are not painting an image of this man that appeals, tbh.

I am really sorry and I may be being thick but I am still unsure as to how your relationship with your DH - apart from he has some secret savings, tells you he loves you alot and goes with you to counselling.

You have not said once feel about your DH apart from you now feel you cannot trust him after finding some secret bonds. You seem to suggest that marriage is all about him getting "free" sex and childcare. How did you feel about him before you found the money? Obviously things were not perfect (hence the counselling). So is this secret savings an example of stuff he is doing (apart from tell you he loves you and going to counselling).

If this were roles reversed, a woman had a secret stash of money (after a money-focussed/bad resulting divorce) would the ?understandable? pot of cash make her horrific, deceitful, having an emotional affair, etc etc.

If someone came on saying this had happened the other way round - ie their DW had a stash of money hidden - they would be advised not to overreact - to talk to her and try and find out why/what it was for before writing off the whole marriage.

It may not be innocent. It may be deceitful and abusive of him. But I am really struggling to see why the OP's DH has been so totally castigated without her even having talked to him about it and seen his response.

perfectstorm Fri 06-Sep-13 17:52:26

FishfingersAreOK it isn't only - or mainly - the money, to me. It's the telling her what she can and can't do and who she can and can't talk to, being extremely secretive and controlling over money and his own past - as well as hers - and expecting her to fund half his extravagant spoiling of his DC while also expecting her to fund half the household costs, despite earning more than her by a large margin.

A high earning, generous husband who had good savings and otherwise never caused her to doubt him wouldn't have got this response. From me, anyway. A woman who behaved as this man is doing would.

paperlantern Fri 06-Sep-13 18:08:44

15k is an exit fund

it's too much money for it ever reappear into family funds without question.

Might not say ltb but male or female I would be advising them to secure up their own position just in case

Oblomov Fri 06-Sep-13 18:22:48

I'm with FishFingers.
The more Op tells us, the lies, the forcing her to pay, for things and her not being able to save.... etc etc.
Where exactly is this supposedly loving marriage of which you speak?

Lotsofswearwords Fri 06-Sep-13 18:24:17

I always felt it was somehow rude to ask dh details of his finances.
Only when he seemed to be checking mine very intensely and poor mouthing did I actually ask him if he had financial worries. Were we overspending perhaps? He denied this but something made me press him a bit more and he point blank refused to share any information. I'm a bit over sensitive so the coldness did get to me and I haven't mentioned anything since. Probably what he wanted to achieve anyway.
Thats also the reason I'm trying to get a bit psyched up to act and actually confront him.

I'm pretty sure exw would have loads to tell me, funnily enough I get on well with exh wife2, we can even share a laugh about him now and then, v discreetly of course. Ds v happy about our relaxed views of each other.

I've learned a lot of things about dh recently. Yes, he goes to counseling with me, but its obviously a sham. Have now been thinking perhaps he wanted me to find documentation of his "higher earnings" , were in obvious place for starters. He likes to make out he is superior, another one of my issues... And now he proves that he is in fact superior and has the money to show it. I'm only a common teacher and although we hold same degree, mine is in arts and not science, omg.

I have taught him so much about interacting normally with people, making friends and being nicer in general, but he has two faces: the clumsy little boy who needs looking after, and the cold calculating upstart who'd probably leave me for a more prestigious model, if she'd have him (like i said, he was skint when I met him).
Ok, I sound a bit mad now. Just nervous. Dh will be back in an hour.
Will post again tomorrow.
Thanks for reading this far. I'm so grateful for your input.

fairiesatthebottomofthegarden Fri 06-Sep-13 18:43:41

My h and I had separate accounts all through our marriage, even our home was only in is name, I had no idea what he earnt but he knew exactly what I received in tax credits and child benefit, he paid the bills and I paid for just about everything else and if anyone gave anyone money it was me to him. Have no idea what he actually has financially, now we are going through divorcesad

tribpot Fri 06-Sep-13 18:45:19

I find it staggering that he expects to be able to examine your finances in detail - and comment on them - and not so much as share his own.

Separate finances is one thing, that's just taking the piss. He's draining you of cash; why aren't the finances set up so you each pay in a share of the month bills proportionate to how much you earn, rather than 50:50? This is inherently unfair on the lower earning partner. I don't think you are being used 'in a very subtle way', OP.

Snorbs asked a very relevant question above:
Are these counselling sessions where you both get equal time to raise issues and have them discussed and resolved, or is it more just him raising a seemingly endless list of issues he has with you?

AnyFucker Fri 06-Sep-13 18:52:52

I really don't like the sound of your husband, OP.

I sense you working up a head of steam about these issues, which is good, but only if you take positive action and not just have a rant but do fuck-all. I would stop the joint counselling, for a start. Anyone who attends sessions while hiding a 15k account appropriated via deceit is not someone I would be trusting with my own innermost thoughts.

get some individual counselling, love, and explore why you seem to have rolled over about rather a lot of stuff that only now you are waking up to as being a rather large mistake

Lotsofswearwords Sat 07-Sep-13 09:31:42

Fairies, that was a bit déjà vu... I regularly use your "nickname" during a lighthearted conversation about our garden. Is it that we are somewhat detached from ordinary life and it takes us some time to cop on to what is happening in RL? Would definitely explain a lot...

Anyfucker, you sound so sensible and strong and yes, I did plan to work up steam for a show down. But I'm weak and so I've decided to go for a moment when I'm feeling calm and collected instead.

And I'm still contemplating some other replies saying that basically his money is none of my business. But that just depresses me. That means we are flatmates and I need to look elsewhere for emotional intimacy. That's just my gut reaction. Had the same with dh1, I tried being civilized and looking for acknowledgment at work instead. But I get that anyway and its just not as important to me as a functional relationship at home. So I left him.

I have been moping since dh got home, I'm so pathetic. I keep hoping he will say something to clear it up before I mention it. I know that's ridiculous.

How's this for a coincidence though: I thought I'd wait for an opportune moment and there it was, we watched the third season start of Damages and it dealt with a Wall Street type who had hidden away money for his family. Dh actually said it was worth contemplating stealing money for the family and going to prison yourself . I was so struck dumb I immediately backed down from any conversation and have been depressed ever since. Dh has been v supportive and hands on with housework because he thinks I'm being menopausal... (Another real issue atm, but nothing serious).

Apocalypto Sat 07-Sep-13 12:47:28

And what a stupid response paperlantern.

Here's a thought experiment for you.

You have £5000 stashed that your DH finds out about.

So he immediately blows £5000 on poker on the joint credit card. When the credit card DD goes through there will now not be enough to pay the mortgage, other bills, etc.

1/ Do you use your stash to keep the family solvent?
2/ Did having the cash in a separate account protect it?
3/ If he didn't even know it existed, would you still have your £5000?

AnyFucker Sat 07-Sep-13 13:05:35

OP, you really need to talk to your husband

Going "quiet" on him (or in other words, if we were being truthful here, being passive aggressive) is not going to help.

Communication between you two seems appalling, I can see why you went for joint counselling. But if you still feel unable to be honest with your H (despite knowing he is lying and manipulating you) then we are nudging towards an emotionally abusive relationship here.

Get some individual counselling, love. Build your self esteem without reference to him. You should be able to tackle this, and the fact that you seem to be getting further away from doing that despite everything that has been said here is a worry.

HappyMummyOfOne Sat 07-Sep-13 13:08:36

"maybe i should make him pay for sex" What a vulgar thought.

Paying 50/50 on bills is what lots of couples do so i see nothing wrong in that. Likewise i wouldnt see one owning a property abroad as anything other than a holiday home to take friends or family rather than be used or being taken advantage of. Just dont go if it makes you feel like that.

Im on the fence re the savings. Women are always encouraged to have a secret savings account in case anything goes wrong so it should also apply to men if we are to be equal re things. If you agreed to a 50/50 split on bills then any left over is surely seen as personal spending money to be used or saved by the person. If his children dont live full time with him perhaps he feels the need to ensure he plays a big part in their life financially and its a cushion should he need it for their fees etc.

Even though we have joint finances as DH likes the set up, i dont subscribe to the old fashioned view that the man supports everyone purely because he is male.

The unfair element i can see is that he checks yours but then again you easily found his so he wasnt exactly hiding them or you would not have seen them.

Lotsofswearwords Sat 07-Sep-13 13:14:51

The passive aggressive sounds about right.
I was actually thinking paper lantern's advice quite good, I.e. I'd build up my own stash and keep it quiet. I know I could do it if I put my mind to it. But then I'd be thinking of nothing else... And I do want a life!
No, confrontation is best. Ds is meeting friends soon so we have the afternoon to ourselves (will be out with dsc and ds in the evening to celebrate dh birthday belatedly. Had thought of waiting till tomorrow because of it, but my resolve would disappear...).
anyfucker thanks for the virtual kick up the backside! It's amazing how a middle aged woman can still be so timid! Thought I'd seen it all after giving birth, but there's always more out there to deal with. Life, I guess.

Lotsofswearwords Sat 07-Sep-13 13:17:29

Ps
Happymummy, hope you stay happy and never get to feel desperate or used.

HappyMummyOfOne Sat 07-Sep-13 13:36:30

Sorry lotsof, i just dont agree you are being used. You both pay 50/50 towards your shared living costs. How is that being used? If anything, your DS is being jointly supported house wise where as his children live elsewhere so only benefit on stays over.

kick arse!
all is clearly not well in your household. sounds to me like you don't trust him.

Inthequietcoach Sat 07-Sep-13 14:13:05

Oh lots, this was one of the many, many issues in my marriage - STBXH saved a few hundred pounds a month whilst I ran an overdraft. His contribution was to pay half the childcare costs. I kind of bought it, as he had high commuting costs, but actually when I stopped and added up everything I paid for, it came to more. There were things like me not being able to afford to get the heating fixed, or driving around with the car needing fixed, and although I did ask him to provide a spreadsheet of monies, this was never forthcoming. The straw that broke the camel's back, financially speaking, was when I saw his current account advice slip (current account, before you even get to savings) and there were several thousand pounds in the bank, and I was overdrawn. And overdrawn paying for household goods, and he knew that.

If you feel used, you probably are being used.

paperlantern Sat 07-Sep-13 16:23:20

Apocolypto - your thought experiment. TBH it would not happen to me in the way you are proposing

I would never ever have a joint account and I absolutely would never have a joint credit card (not keen on the prospect of credit cards full stop). It also the reason I wouldn't marry again as credit cards and marriage can be a very bad combination, you have no right to get any information on a spouse's credit card but you can end up responsible for the balance.

I would never have savings that I would not advice a partner I had. If it was agreed the amount was irrelevant I wouldn't worry beyond that.

If someone squandered 5K on gambling chips whatever the outcome I would be leaving. As I wouldn't be in a joint credit card EVER it would be his problem, not mine.

MariaLuna Sat 07-Sep-13 17:51:37

looking for online banking details of my and our joint accounts *in the hope of being able to do this myself and not be forced to rely on dh.*

Time to take control of your own financial education.

That way you have your own future in your own hands without coming across nasty surprises that one in the relationship has been squirreling money away secretly.

I'm glad you found out anyway. Knowledge is power.

Obviously, joint counselling is not applicable where one partner is hiding such fundamental secrets.

His controlling behaviour towards you is creepy too.

Lotsofswearwords Mon 09-Sep-13 07:05:03

Nasty surprise is the key phrase I think.
If all else were well in our marriage I might have thought, great! Dh is saving for second bathroom/ new fence... Whatever.
But as it is it was another blow.
Having read so many threads on cheaters and the chances partners give them to come clean, I did the same.
I told dh I was v upset with him for treating me like a minion, disrespecting my right to be at least informed/ consulted as his partner in all family matters.
He cleverly named many areas in our lives, like parenting, house maintenance,holidays, etc. where he felt we were on the same page, and then acted baffled.
He knows damn he told me he was not willing to show me his bank balance some months back (when his penny pinching made me ask if he was suffering financially) and he showed me a spreadsheet instead. I let it go as i figured it sounded about right, but about another third of his income is in the form of regular bonuses, which I had obviously forgotten about. And which explain the size of the stash. But this amount originated 2 years ago. There could easily be another one...
I told him if he doesn't come clean voluntarily I won't be able to trust him anymore and if he forces me to say precisely what's upsetting me that's just evading the overall habit of excluding me (our other issues centered around him excluding me from his "inner circle" of himself and dsc.
here he has compromised and is making clear efforts to maintain a balance, first dsd having to relinquish role of mini wife, dss now realizing he's no longer dh bff, couple counselor v supportive here).
He has until Friday, our next counseling session. Hope counselor can mediate.

paperlantern Tue 10-Sep-13 06:11:10

oh the spreadsheet thing is horribly familiar. ex did the most fabulous spreadsheets. don't get me wrong they are really useful for budgeting, but if you don't actually know your family income, they are totally meaningless.

ageofgrandillusion Tue 10-Sep-13 08:02:54

OP your husband sounds like he has very little respect for you. I'm getting pictures of an alan partridge type figure, socially awkward, slightly paranoid and deeply mistrustful of the world since his first wife woke up to what a loser he was. I'd seriously consider jumping ship - with your 7.5k, of course. Apart from stress, I'm really not sure what you are getting out of this relationship - unless he is fantastic in bed maybe, although something tells me that this is not the case.

Lotsofswearwords Tue 10-Sep-13 14:49:04

Paperlantern, seems we have a lot in common. Dh can be so wonderful, I just don't understand why he's sabotaging our relationship. It's like he's a bit mad, just has this massive blind spot and absolutely refuses to budge an inch. He keeps giving me these weird pained looks when were together and I'm visibly upset/detached/being polite... He seems to be hoping I won't address the money imbalance issue and will back off because he's "so nice" to me...

Ageofgrandillusion, yes, it's stressful. I gave him until Friday to come clean. Each day feels heavier than the last. At least I know for sure now its not something ill forgive and forget in a hurry. This seriously needs to be resolved fairly. Counseling at least gives me the neutral territory to talk.

Lotsofswearwords Wed 11-Sep-13 06:31:42

Ok, we had it out last night. I did feel pressured into saying exactly what was bothering me, but as I was only making veiled references (I told him I was actually afraid to hear the truth was worse than I imagined) he finally came clean (well, not so much clean as shop soiled).
I was a bit taken aback when he asked me if I thought he was embezzling money from me (because he was) and then gave me some weird stories that were half truths because he needs to save face now.
He promised to give me all the paper work I asked for and wants to make amends.

We need a second bathroom, he could easily fund that himself.
I would love him to do that and forgive and forget and get on with our marriage. I'm going to ask counselor the same, should we not have decided by Friday. This would benefit the whole family greatly (and dsd 's visits could be more spontaneous).
Thanks everybody for reading and advice given thanks

overitalready Wed 11-Sep-13 12:57:55

lots - i dont understand your post.

he came clean? but you only got half truths? so he didnt come clean? so whats the money for? why was it a secret?

all is ok if you get the 2nd bathroom?

MysteriousHamster Wed 11-Sep-13 13:18:28

Was he embezzling money from you?!

Lotsofswearwords Wed 11-Sep-13 15:05:08

Sorry for rambling earlier.

I'm still reeling from the shock that he actually used the words 'embezzle' and I think 'fraud.' I'd never have said that (just called it a secret stash), but maybe he is actually feeling guilty.
I just can't accept the truth, I wanted him to have a really good excuse and I'm paralyzed that I was right.

Sorry for being dramatic, obviously there is no emergency. I won't agree to any suggestions to make amends before our counseling session on Friday. Don't know though what to ask of him to able to trust him again. Bank statements? We've been married 3 1/2years.
I was only going to talk about the bonuses he squirreled away. But the first thing he mentioned was money apparently his parents gave him when we got together (exit fund?). I could be wrong , but he may be trying to disguise his stash as a gift, which would not be any of my business. I'm only trying to get clarity about his income since we got married.

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