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Have confronted him. Feel sick. Help.

(414 Posts)
Fireplaces Sun 25-Aug-13 20:54:21

Tonight I confronted my husband about the fact that he is having an affair. I have known for a couple of weeks but I was so scared of confronting him and of what would happen then. I was hoping he would finish his affair because he knew I was suspicious. But he was out late twice this week with no explanation, he has been shitty to live with and today had a go at me over something tiny.

Then he lied this evening about where he was going and he went out. I questioned him about where he was going and he lied some more. I am sure he was going to meet the OW. About half an hour after he went out I decided that I was sick of the lies and deceit. I literally couldn't take it anymore. I called him and told him I knew. And I shouted. And I told him to stop lying.

He denied it all on the phone and said he was coming straight home, but I packed his bags and left them outside the front door. He has gone, with them.

I am so scared of the future. Of tomorrow. Of the next day. How the hell am I going to get through this? I am shaking. Please help me.

TreeHuggerMum1 Sun 25-Aug-13 20:58:51

Get a bottle of wine and a big glass. Take a deep breathe and pour the bottle.
I have no words of wisdom but wanted you to know I admire you bravery in confronting him and you have my support.
X

Hassled Sun 25-Aug-13 20:59:04

Firstly well done - however hard things are going to be, what you did tonight will be the hardest. You've done the most difficult thing. From now on you're in control. It is terrifying, I know, but you should be bloody proud of yourself.

Do you work? DCs? How are your own finances? Thinking about the practicalities may be a good distraction from the emotional mess you must be in - and lots of people here will be able to help.

mrscraig Sun 25-Aug-13 21:00:59

You are incredibly brave. Please don't be hard on yourself. You are in for a roller coaster of a ride and are in a state of shock.
Be kind to yourself. Is there anyone in real life you can call to come over to sit with you?
Wishing you lots of love. You will get through this xxx

KellyHopter Sun 25-Aug-13 21:01:01

I'm so sorry, you must be in pieces.
There are lots of threads on here where women in your position receive huge amounts of support and advice. Keep posting x

chinley Sun 25-Aug-13 21:02:21

Your life will be a hell of a lot better, happier and less stressful without him than with a lying cheating scumbag.

shootfromthehip Sun 25-Aug-13 21:04:07

Oh my, I threw my DH out this week too. It's the scariest thing that's ever happened to me. I know I'll/ we'll be better off but it's still terrifying. I hope that you have some financial security and some very good friends around you. Be strong- I know how hard it is sad

ProphetOfDoom Sun 25-Aug-13 21:04:38

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mrscraig Sun 25-Aug-13 21:05:34

How did you discover the affair?
I hope you don't mind me asking, only reply if you feel up to it x

bump6 Sun 25-Aug-13 21:10:07

That took a lot of courage to do that.. Which I think says a lot about you. I hope you have a RL friend to call right now and come to comfort you.
It's incredibly hard but you are worth so much more than your idiot non DH!
Please stay strong and keep talking to us.
Be really kind to yourself.. It's not your fault.

bump6 Sun 25-Aug-13 21:14:31

That took a lot of courage to do that.. Which I think says a lot about you. I hope you have a RL friend to call right now and come to comfort you.
It's incredibly hard but you are worth so much more than your idiot non DH!
Please stay strong and keep talking to us.
Be really kind to yourself.. It's not your fault.

Fireplaces Sun 25-Aug-13 21:16:48

Yes I had a RL friend whi came and looked the DC while I packed his bags. Then distracted them when DH came back so they didnt hear the door rattling.

treehugger I have had four glasses of wine. I am anaesthetised.

mrs craig one of your threads from May has kept me sane this week...the advice on there was so pertinent that I copied and pasted it into my phone. Thank you.

I am now, however, going mad again. Why Did he deny it all? I told him it would better if he came clean and that I had proof. I tried three times. Complete denial from him. Bastard.

Fireplaces Sun 25-Aug-13 21:18:13

Sorry for the typing, which is usually so carefully spellchecked. Stress+wine=typos. Bear with me x

onetiredmummy Sun 25-Aug-13 21:23:02

Well done, that was the hard bit and you did it! He doesn't deserve you at all, fuck him. From now on he's not your problem.

I'm on my phone so apologies for typos.

Take a day tomorrow just to deal emotionally with the enormity of what you have done and be prepared for contact from ex. If you want, let people know what's happened and get some rl support.

The next day you need to think about practicalities. End your joint tax credit claim and start claiming singly, go to see a solicitor or CAB about divorce proceedings, start thinking about living arrangements.

It's doable, I did it and women do the same thing as we have every single day. It can be scary as its the unknown but it will be worth it smile he no longer gets your consideration or head space , the ow can do that from now on.

onetiredmummy Sun 25-Aug-13 21:24:57

X post. He denied it because he knows he's a dick and has made the error that ended his marriage. He will try to downplay it , ignore him.

coco35 Sun 25-Aug-13 21:26:00

Good woman. You are incredibly strong. what a brave lady you are. dont look back. your gut and prob other things are shown you that you are right so his denial means nothing. also the fact that he didnt kick up a fuss and plead his innocence further says alot. stick to your guns. i wish i had your strenght.
as someone else said. make plan b now regarding finances and be on guard for him trying to come back etc.
well done. i have had several medicinal glasses of wine myself at times like this so enjoy them. and great you have a friend you can be honest with - that is where i went wrong so hold onto that and keep keep talking thats crucial.........

Vivacia Sun 25-Aug-13 21:26:29

The denial may be down to the fact that he's innocent and has a good reason for his unexplained absences. Alternatively, it may be because you've taken him by surprise and he didn't have a clue you suspected.

Well done. Sounds scary but u sound tough. No real advice but plenty of support xxx

Shyer Sun 25-Aug-13 21:28:30

You must feel very shaken up - but well done, it only feels scary because you've done the bravest thing.

Try and be as nice to yourself as possible. You've done the best thing - getting rid of the loser and the drain - now take a break.

mrscraig Sun 25-Aug-13 21:30:47

The advice I received is something I'll always be grateful for. The utter despair and heart break feels crippling and you will feel you're going mad. I was so relieved to discover that these emotions are completely normal.
You are feeling the very worst you will ever feel at the moment. Please be kind to yourself. I really feel for you xx

ProphetOfDoom Sun 25-Aug-13 21:43:55

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Viking1 Sun 25-Aug-13 21:50:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lackedpunchesforever Sun 25-Aug-13 21:55:52

You are so brave - so bloody brave.
Keep taking those deep breaths and taking one hour at a time. you deserve so much more than this and you have done absolutely the right thing by confronting him. whatever the future holds, you are in control now of your own life.

AKVS Sun 25-Aug-13 22:12:33

Oh dear. U r so strong and brave!
Get support from family and friends.
Think about practical stuff too.
Be kind to yourself.

U r amazing. Cheers!

AKVS Sun 25-Aug-13 22:13:11

Oh dear. U r so strong and brave!
Get support from family and friends.
Think about practical stuff too.
Be kind to yourself.

U r amazing. Cheers!

CookieDoughKid Sun 25-Aug-13 22:26:41

Dear OP. Keep the anger for as long as you can whilst he goes through this denial phase. He's a bastard to you. Remember that. He will try to put the blame on you [don't take that in for one moment is the real reason why he had an affair]. And you will try to minimise/forgive/see logic in all of this. Of which, there isn't any logic other than.....He's a disrespecting bastard and at this moment in time, deserves to be booted out and living on his own without the comfort and trappings of being in a family.

Take a WIDE berth and think about your next steps. Take a long good hard think and remember this. Even though you might, MIGHT forgive him, you will never forget. He's lost your trust and that will be a hard road for you both if you do decide to get back together.

Let's see what the bastard comes back with and calmly threaten that you will take him to the cleaners (divorce) if he even so tries to demand anything off you. Trust me when I say that that will shut him up (I know from experience, that people are very very afraid of being taken to the cleaners in a divorce, even though on the surface they may be calm and collected.).

Fireplaces Sun 25-Aug-13 22:40:16

Thank you for your replies. I have no idea where he has gone. Perhaps to the OW? I feel she is welcome to his moodiness,, bad breath, picking his nose, spotty arse, and snoring. I wonder how long it'll be before she calls it a day?

<pendulum has swung to anger>

Tortington Sun 25-Aug-13 22:42:59

i am absolutely amazed by how strong you have been, well done xxx ((hugs))

ProphetOfDoom Sun 25-Aug-13 22:50:08

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CookieDoughKid Sun 25-Aug-13 22:56:46

And don't forget you've kept your side to the marriage being faithful. Your integrity will get you through this.

myroomisatip Sun 25-Aug-13 23:06:22

Ah sunshine...

I am the other side of a split, although no OW was involved, but you know, I woke up this morning with the bed to myself smile... no other smelly, snoring, sweaty occupant taking the duvet, in my bed! Yes... result!

I think you will be fine smile

Hissy Sun 25-Aug-13 23:25:10

Oh love, so sorry! But you have done the right thing.

Really you have. You'll see that soon!

skyeskyeskye Mon 26-Aug-13 00:22:45

Well done on being so strong.

LittlePeaPod Mon 26-Aug-13 08:45:11

Op so sorry to hear what you are going through. I couldn't read and run. I hope you are as weel as can be under the circumstances BUT well done for making it clear to him you will not tollarate been treated so appaulingly flowers

Fireplaces Mon 26-Aug-13 10:01:48

Urgent help please this morning. He rang and I ignored the phone. He then sent me a text asking me to let him back in.

I need help constructing a non-confrontational yet firm 'no'. I do not know what to say.

I do not want to see him. He makes me feel sick.

I told him three times during confrontation yesterday that if he had any respect for our marriage and for me, he would move out and keep away for a couple of weeks so that I could have some space to think.

WafflyVersatile Mon 26-Aug-13 10:04:39

Send him that last sentence.

Vivacia Mon 26-Aug-13 10:10:43

What waffly said.

Do you feel safe? Do you want someone there with you?

Buzzardbird Mon 26-Aug-13 10:13:23

Wow, you are good. All the ones who are pussy footing around wondering what to do about their cheating partners should get you round!
Just be firm and repeat "no". You didn't make him go cock dipping.

Fireplaces Mon 26-Aug-13 10:28:11

Ok I will go with what waffly said x

Vivacia Mon 26-Aug-13 10:57:08

Yep, if he replies just repeat the same message and then don't reply.

You're amazing. Stay strong. You no longer need to do what he wants you to do or dance to his tune. Do not let him back in if you don't want to see him. Be strong, be firm, and I have a feeling you'll be just fine.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Mon 26-Aug-13 12:10:50

I also think you're amazing fireplaces so many people would be in pieces and begging him to come back....you're the winner...he's the one whose lost out and he's already realising it!

Fireplaces Mon 26-Aug-13 12:40:22

He has sent me a reply which has surprised me in its contrition yet annoyed me by the implication that he will 'stay away this week' (ie one week when I have repeatedly said 'a few weeks'.). He expects me to get over this in a week.

<pendulum has swung to forgiveness, yet just this morning I hated the mere thought of him>. Emotional roller coaster.

Lweji Mon 26-Aug-13 12:46:04

Remember that No is a complete sentence.
You don't have to explain, justify, dwell on it.

Just say No.

It's easy to feel forgiving, sorry, hopeful, but he is a liar.
He's not even contrite if he said he'll leave for one week. Although, his children should be able to see him. Can you try and maintain contact between them, without you being involved?

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Mon 26-Aug-13 12:47:18

Where is he staying? Did he say? Your emotions will doubtless change again later...it must be hard to know what to think!

Seenenoughtoknow Mon 26-Aug-13 12:51:37

I would ask him if he went to the other woman and she turned him away?

Fireplaces Mon 26-Aug-13 13:18:10

Please help me word a firm but fair (don't want to antagonise) reply. Am stuck.

I want to say:
1) a week is not enough. He must not think he is moving back in, in a weeks time. (frankly right now i dont think i ever want him back)
2) The time apart is no guarantee of me then then agreeing to continue the marriage. Time away is purely to let me have space to grieve and think.
3) he should do some serious thinking too.
4) I have already said in my email thus morning that we should sort out access to the children. I am happy to be reasonable. Eg one full day a week at the weekend plus tea after school one day. Or every other weekend. But I don't want the DC meeting the OW as it would be too confusing for them (young).
5) I need the car seats back from the car he has with him (so I can put them in our old runaround car and they'll be safe).

Vivacia Mon 26-Aug-13 13:26:45

I would restrict your communication to your fifth point. There is no need to repeat yourself on the others. You've told him once that you need a fortnight. Once is enough.

I wouldn't mention the OW. Firstly, I can't see how you can win that one. Secondly, I doubt he's in a hurry to anyway.

onefewernow Mon 26-Aug-13 13:50:57

He hasn't even admitted it yet, has he? I imagine he us like nearly all cheaters, in that he imagines it is just a case of waiting for the dust to settle and for you to calm down, before he hops back in order to lie and minimise some more.

Do take advantage of that thinking time, and try not to spend it playing text tennis with him. He is only interested in helping himself, anyway.

You rock for swift action, though?

Seenenoughtoknow Mon 26-Aug-13 14:10:49

I agree with vivacia, you don't owe him any explanations, just tell him you want the car seats. Don't let him know how you are thinking or that you are confused, you can make decisions later - he is more likely to come clean if he thinks he has completely lost you, as he will think his honesty might be the only way of getting you back.

onefewernow Mon 26-Aug-13 14:13:15

Yes I agree. Their early post throwing out communication is usually intended to see how the land lies.

Lweji Mon 26-Aug-13 14:26:13

Yes, ignore his messages and tell him that the children need the car seats.

Or just buy new ones. I suspect you'll need two sets.

clam Mon 26-Aug-13 14:41:40

You see, setting a timeframe for a separation does give rise to the expectation that it's only a matter of time before you forgive him and let him back. I would be acting like "it's over. Go. Now." I wouldn't be saying "I need time to think."
That doesn't necessarily mean it IS over. You can talk at a later date, when you feel like it.

LumpyJumper84 Mon 26-Aug-13 14:59:03

So did you actually have any proof ? If so what ?

Wellwobbly Mon 26-Aug-13 15:15:27

Well done Fireplaces! Well done.

Now? Shit him right up. Now is the time to go to the solicitors and have them send him the preliminary letter AT WORK.

Do NOT talk to him.

There is only one thing that motivates these men, and that is LOSS (Chandon). He has been taking you, his home, his ironed shirts, his children's clean little bodies straight after the bath ALL FOR GRANTED.

Throw him into OW's open, loving arms and open, loving legs, and see how long the smell of twat covers up for lovely baby in their pyjamas smell.

Please stand firm and DO NOT FORGIVE HIM.

I forgave my H far too soon, and it cost me. Are you able to tell us your story?

Oh, and the other thing? TELL EVERYONE. Tell his parents, your parents his friends everyone. He won't be such a big swinging dick in the face of all their disapproval.
Dont' feel ashamed and cover up for him (another mistake I made).

Vivacia Mon 26-Aug-13 15:22:45

Wow.

PAsSweetOrangeLurve Mon 26-Aug-13 15:22:53

Just say that you need the car seats. Don't say anything more. Silence is your best weapon here - let him sweat. Ignore his messages (unless he asks after the DC, in which case reply but only about the DC).

If he turns back up at the house then - if his name is on the lease/mortgage - you'll have to let him back in as he is entitled to be there. You can however confine him to the spare room, ignore him, don't cook or clean or wash anything for him - treat him exactly like a lodger but don't be friendly.

If he isn't on his hands and knees apologising to you and asking what he needs to do to make it better, then you need to ask yourself why you would self yourself short in a relationship? As that's what you deserve.

PAsSweetOrangeLurve Mon 26-Aug-13 15:25:38

Oh and everything that wellwobbly said. Right now you are embarrassed and ashamed and you want to keep it quiet. You have nothing to hide - bring it out in the open. You'll get support and I bet you'll be surprised by how disapproving most people are of people that shag about.

Definitely see a solicitor as a priority - even if you don't know if this means the end or not. You have to protect yourself and your DC so it's vital you get some legal advice, so you know where you stand - then you can mull it over and make a decision when you feel ready.

Fireplaces Mon 26-Aug-13 15:40:19

Overwhelming majority decision then; no contact about the stuff I was going to mention.

lumpyjumpy yes I do have overwhelming proof, yes. Pages of it. It is a full EA and sexual affair and has been going on for at least six weeks; maybe more but that's when I have proof from.

They have told each other how much they love each other. Apparently she is the first thing he thinks about when he wakes up each day. Not his wife and children then.

How did everyone's experiences go of telling people? I am like sweetOrange says at the moment; embarrassed, don't want anyone to know. I feel that if I tell our friends, it will enrage him?

TotallyBursar Mon 26-Aug-13 15:53:50

He is trying to get back on the front foot and get some control of the situation by reframing your request and adding his own terms. He'll let you have a week.

Well no, you are in control of this and things move at your pace.
You will want him back - but actually what we want is the man you married back and to re-set to when this hasn't happened because it's so terribly painful.
Accept you are not wrong to feel those things but keep your head, be detached in communication with him - he's offered you nothing but a glimpse of how little value he is placing on your feelings.

Read the script, read the other threads and really try and hold on to the fact that there is so much he needs to do (admission, honesty and genuine contrition - not to mention actually stopping shagging the OW while he does it) and he isn't. If you act on trying to get back together before he does any of that you will set yourself up for misery and hurt.

I echo telling people - this is not your shame, you don't need to lie and cover up. You don't need to go into the gory details but simply he was unfaithful.
Be prepared for his allies to pressure you to forgive and forget, you may find your people shock you by saying the same but you will also find understanding support too. It will sort out the people who love and respect you and those who don't view a woman as complete without an owner no matter how he behaves (or "boys will be boys" shit).

Take time, get your security sorted and take time and space to get over the visceral feelings and being overwhelmed. Then engage with him on a more level playing field.
Well done for your strength and courage - that will protect you and your dc no matter what. thanks

littlebunnyfriend Mon 26-Aug-13 15:55:18

You are being SO strong. You're amazing.

TotallyBursar Mon 26-Aug-13 16:00:22

Sorry cross posted with you Fireplaces.

So what if it enrages him? Could he hurt you more than he has? A solicitor will take care of the rest, they all turn nasty in the end anyway.
What will he be enraged about - his own behaviour.

Get in before he stars spouting the guff he wants people to hear and buy - you will be cold, a nag, you will have treated him badly and will of course have huge issues with sex, will never have it and he will have had enough poor boy.

He won't flinch from spreading lies (justification in his own head) about you that are incredibly personal.
He might be enraged? At the fact you aren't lying to protect his reputation - really?

I'm so sorry. This phase is tough, but it does get better. The others are right. Don't engage with him, let reality hit him in the face. It's one thing having the excitement of an affair along side the comfort of home, but quite another when it causes you to lose everything.

As for telling people, don't worry about his opinion on this. Of course he won't want people to know, as once they do he'll have lost their respect forever. Think of you. Right now you need real life support from your friends and family, so tell them. I was amazed at the response I had, everyone was there for me. No one judged me, or made me feel embarrassed, they were just incredibly kind. His family need to know too, but it is quite likely they will close ranks on you so be prepared for that. My MIL is lovely, really lovely, but I was left in no doubt that when the chips were down her son came first.

As for how I told people, I rang my parents (in tears), I told my best friend when I saw her, I told my SIL by email, I basically let people know in a way I was comfortable with. I relied on them to let other friends and family know.

This is only the start of a long road. You may split, you may stay together, decisions like that are for you and you only. No one can tell you what is right, as all relationships are different. Beware hysterical bonding. It's very common, you talk, cry, bond and have amazing sex with your DH. It doesn't mean everything is solved, or your marriage will definitely survive. It might, but this kind of full on emotion isn't real or lasting.

I promise you you'll get through this and come out stronger and happier. You won't believe me now, but in a year from now you will.

Right now look after yourself and your dcs, and get legal advice.

onefewernow Mon 26-Aug-13 16:09:31

I told a few and they were very sympathetic. I made the mistake of NOT kicking him out and trying to talk him round to honesty.

It can't be done. Any concession or change I got was hard hard won through his understanding that I was deadly serious about a divorce, backed up by no conversations between us at all, until he admitted all, and even then it took 6 weeks.

Loss really is the only motivator for cheaters. And he is trying to regain control through contact. At this stage he still imagines he can have his cake and eat it. You need to ensure he doesn't.

Wellwobbly Mon 26-Aug-13 16:31:53

Apparently she is the first thing he thinks about when he wakes up each day.

I am afraid that is probably the truth.

The worst time of my life was going on a skiing holiday and watching him (without understanding what I was looking at) pining away for her and missing her.

Vivacia can wow all she likes, but the scars of humiliation of being a doormat and allowing go deep. Much better to sling him out and see what he thinks about when he wakes up then.

You are doing all the right things, Fire. You really are. The character of people who feel ENTITLED to cheat has implications: for games playing, control, manipulation, positions of advantage, and any means it takes to get them.

Does he work in the City? Remember these things are rewarded there.

eineschlampa Mon 26-Aug-13 16:46:33

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Seenenoughtoknow Mon 26-Aug-13 16:59:06

Wobbly you don't sound bitter, you sound like someone who has been treated appallingly and has learnt from the experience. As most people get shafted by someone at some point in their life I'll be interested if eineschlampa remains as judgemental about the injured party if ever something like this ever happens to her.
It happened to me wobbly and I understand where you are coming from.

willdivorcesoon Mon 26-Aug-13 17:05:22

Wow eineschlampa . I'd just say walk a mile in someone shoes who has been through an affair before making such an awful comment. How utterly horrible.

mammadiggingdeep Mon 26-Aug-13 17:16:35

Wobbly, you don't sound bitter. You sound clued up on how it is to be cheated on. Others can 'wow' all they like....it's a journey they wouldn't like to walk.....

Feelingworried67 Mon 26-Aug-13 17:18:35

hmm

skyeskyeskye Mon 26-Aug-13 17:19:55

My XH texted/emailed OW right through our family holiday. Also texting her was the first thing he did when he left the house each day and also the last thing he did at night. I remember a family Christening where he was distracted all day and glued to his phone. OW was away for the weekend and he was desperately trying to contact her.

All their emotion and time is invested in OW and it hurts when you look back at things and suddenly everything makes sense about their behaviour.

I told his family and all my friends. I had nothing to be ashamed off. He had walked with no prior warning which shocked everybody. Once the contact with OW was discovered, it all made a lot more sense.

LittlePeaPod Mon 26-Aug-13 17:25:46

Hi Op,

Just a quick note to say you are doing amazingly well under the circumstances. You clearly have a lot of inner strength. I really wish you well. You will of course go through vicarious emotions and this is natural considering what you're having to deal with..

eineschlampia Why? confused & hmm

onefewernow Mon 26-Aug-13 17:26:32

Game playing, control, manipulation, positions of advantage.

Exactly. My H actually finally admitted to these facets of his personality in counselling with me, and said that he had understood that the skills one needed at work were the same as at home. We discussed that in counselling for some weeks.

So you have it spot on, Wobbly.

Those 'qualities' are exactly what it takes to have an affair, or similar, but to stay in the relationship because it is advantageous to do so.

Vivacia Mon 26-Aug-13 17:49:52

I can see you've been hurt and angry wobbly. But. There's something a bit disturbing about talking about the other woman's open legs and the smell of her "twat" in the same sentence as the smell and feel of your clean babies' bodies.

There are many different ways of dealing with a break-up and just because some people don't advocate the same way as yours, doesn't mean we're wrong. Of course, it's probably helpful for the OP to hear about different strategies, but so far she's acted with immense dignity and strength.

sayithowitis Mon 26-Aug-13 17:53:24

eineschlampia,
are you the OW ?
Your response is completely inappropriate and,frankly, nasty. As someone else said, try walking a mile in Wobbly's shoes before being so judgemental.
flowers for Wobbly.

balia Mon 26-Aug-13 17:58:10

Why Did he deny it all?

I'd LOVE to know the answer to this one as well. Why don't they just admit it? Mine tried to do the thing where they say the OW is a psycho and they've never touched her...and my lovely friend's ex STILL says his OW (who he has been living with for over a year) is his flatmate. FFS. This despite their DC's coming home and saying OW is their 'new mummy'.

Stay business like.

And see a sol.

eineschlampa Mon 26-Aug-13 17:59:44

Been there done that. I don't come on to a forum though and encourage people to end relationships because I am bitter though.

Vivacia Mon 26-Aug-13 18:01:48

I don't think we're encouraging her to end it eines, at least I hope I'm not. All I see is the OP wanting to time to think and gather her thoughts.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Mon 26-Aug-13 18:06:59

eineschlampa why are you going around all the threads telling people off for offering good advice?

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Mon 26-Aug-13 18:10:44

fireplaces It is a hell on earth that I would only wish on people who have been willing to be an OW. I am so very sorry you are going through this.

I wouldn't take him back.

However, if you are not sure what you want to do yet, I would text him something like 'I did not say A week, I said, A FEW weeks. I will let you know when I am ready to talk to you. In the meantime stay away and leave me alone, unless it's to tell me you want a divorce'.

PAsSweetOrangeLurve Mon 26-Aug-13 19:05:18

Bloody hell Eines - are you stalking Wobbly? This is the second thread that I'm on where you have appeared and posted about her. Why on earth would you think it appropriate to hijack someone's thread to have a go at another poster? Learn some manners.

LittlePeaPod Mon 26-Aug-13 19:09:34

Sounds / like we may have a name changer!! hmm

Gehj Mon 26-Aug-13 19:25:28

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

LittlePeaPod Mon 26-Aug-13 19:30:44

Gehj what on earth are you talking about. You have some serious unreasovled issues. You have already high jacked one thread this week and quite a number ladies asked you to stop, including me. Now please don't try and hike jack another Ops thread. This Op really needs support.

PAsSweetOrangeLurve Mon 26-Aug-13 19:55:29

Christ, the end of the school holidays can't come quick enough.

I'd use an exclamation mark, but I fear Gehj has taken the entire quota for the thread.

When I was going through this myself I would have found the arguing on this thread really unhelpful and upsetting. Perhaps we could all calm down a bit and be kind and supportive. We all have opinions, but the OP doesn't need them. She needs practical advice and hand holding.

The relationships board can be such a wonderful support to posters, let's remember that.

Feelingworried67 Mon 26-Aug-13 20:02:14

Lets just stop arguing and focus on OP here confusedhmm

skyeskyeskye Mon 26-Aug-13 21:17:43

Yes, just support OP, don't get drawn into an argument and report anything you dont like, to MN and let them deal with it if they think it is out of order , as they already have twice today....

Fireplaces - you really will be on an emotional roller coaster for quite some time, but the stronger you can be, the better you will handle it. If you have some good RL support, it will help too.

Fireplaces Mon 26-Aug-13 21:24:36

I am reading all your replies. Thank you for the help. I do really need your help and experiences, more than I have ever done in my life.

The last 24 hours have been some of the hardest of my life. I am trying to hold it all together for the sake of the DC.

I am full of empowerment one minute, then full of self-doubt the next.

DH has sent another email this evening asking to come home. He says he wants things to go back to how they were before we had the DC. He says he wants us to spend time as a family. He says he wants to put things right between us and to resolve it.

He says he has been stupid.

He has not said he is sorry, for anything. He does not acknowledge or ask about how I am feeling. I told him yesterday twice on the phone and again this morning in an email that I needed a few weeks space and that if he had any respect for me and the marriage, he would give me this time. This morning he said he wants to come home. And now again, the same thing.

What I feel he wants is to come home, see his DC, have one or two conversations about it all, come home early for a few weeks and make some effort....but then sweep it under the rug, never to be mentioned again. I will be living my life obsessing for the next 20 years who he is with; checking his text messages etc. The trust has gone. I don't want him ever to touch me again; the thought of sex with him makes me want to vomit because he's been doing that with the OW. I feel the marriage has been awful for ages now and that the affair is one of the results.

I am pouring out my feelings.

But I need practical advice; (yes more&#128530;) in the light of his evening email. I feel strongly that he needs to leave me be for a few weeks to think. He wants to come straight home. I feel like saying that he needs to give the space I ask for a d that if he forces the issue, I will go straight to divorce. Help please xx

NamelessMcNally Mon 26-Aug-13 21:48:05

I don't usually post on difficult threads like yours. Your instinct sounds perfect to me. You have worked on it so far and maintained your dignity wonderfully. You are making a relatively minor request and that he is ignoring it smacks of complete disrespect.

And as for wanting to go back to how you were pre children. Exactly how does he plan that? Wishing your children away takes a certain type of self obsessed bastard.

You are doing so well Fireplaces, much better than I did at the same stage. I had nothing but self doubt!

From the sound of it your DH is looking to come back on his terms and effectively keep his options open. Mine wanted to do that too. I only made progress when like you I took control, walked out and got on with my life. If you don't want to see him for a few weeks, don't, he has no right to dictate to you.

It's very hard to know what you want so early on, and there is no harm in talking to your DH, communicating by email, meeting him for a drink etc. I did all of that, and in the process we healed a lot of wounds and made friends again. Do stuff for yourself too though, go out with friends and have a bit of fun. Take advantage of the fact your life is your own, and you don't have to fit in with him any more.

I'm still with my DH, we survived and are doing are very best to make a go of things. Life is good, but it's a long slow road. The only reason I am on it is because DH is sorry, genuinely sorry, ashamed, humiliated, desperate to make amends. He treats me with respect, asks how I am, supports me when I have bad days (I'm a year in, and I still have them.... it takes time), and the running is coming from him. If your DH isn't doing all of that and more there is no point really, as you can't police what he is up to, he needs to 100% not want to be up to anything.

My advice, carry on with what you are doing, communicate but on your terms, ask friends for support (you will need it), make sure you know everything you need to about your family finances and get legal advice, and don't blame yourself, or let your DH blame you. He'll probably try, most do. Whatever problems there may have been in your marriage not one of them gave him the right to treat you like this. Big hug. It's so hard, and it's ok to cry.

skyeskyeskye Mon 26-Aug-13 22:37:29

What he wants, really doesn't matter at the moment. You have the right to ask for whatever you want from him and he should want to give it. Don't take any crap from him, if he pushes faster than you want to go, then he is not giving you the respect that you are asking for.

If he truly wants to make amends, he will do anything he can to make it up to you.

if he gets impatient, doesn't want to wait, wants to push it all aside, then it will never work out. As you say, you will be seething with resentment and he will expect it to be forgotten.

If you stay with him, then ultimately you do have to be able to forgive, or it will never work out, but that is something that only you can decide and from what others post, it takes a hell of a long time to get to that point. There is no miracle cure and your H needs to understand that.

For now, you need time and space to process your thoughts and that is what he should understand

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Mon 26-Aug-13 23:06:22

It is such an incredibly horrible feeling - so confusing and scary as well as hurting more than you'd think was possible sad

I am full of empowerment one minute, then full of self-doubt the next

That is completely normal. Exhausting & confusing, but normal.

Of course he wants thing to 'go back to normal' wifey at home looking after the house and the kids, him acting like a Dad when he fancies it and like a single bloke when he fancies that.

Well, Breaking News this is NOT about what he wants, if that is what he wanted so badly he should have thought about that before fucking around with someone else shouldn't he. It is now tough bloody luck what he wants.

How is christs name does he think you can go back to how it was before you had children? Does he not think 'having children changes your life forever' applies to him??

If he wanted to put things right and resolve things - he should have done that before he had an affair - instead of acting like a complete idiot.

He says he has been stupid

... yes, we'd worked that out hmm

He has not said he is sorry, for anything. He does not acknowledge or ask about how I am feeling

There is no way on this earth that he has what it takes to rebuild your relationship from the ground up. You are right, he wants a couple of conversations about it, to look a bit hangdog and then have it brushed under the rug. Fuck that.

I told him yesterday twice on the phone and again this morning in an email that I needed a few weeks space and that if he had any respect for me and the marriage, he would give me this time. This morning he said he wants to come home. And now again, the same thing

This tells you everything you need to know about how much he would listen & how much effort he would put into rebuilding your marriage. NONE.

I will be living my life obsessing for the next 20 years who he is with; checking his text messages etc. The trust has gone

There is one poster on here who will tell you that her relationship is better now, post affair, because they rebuilt their marriage and 'started again' but her DH was a completely different kind of person to yours & she is the only person I know, IRL & on MN, that has had a happy life post affair, everyone else I know is living the life you describe above - then generally still separating a few years later (which is what I did).

I feel strongly that he needs to leave me be for a few weeks to think. He wants to come straight home. I feel like saying that he needs to give the space I ask for a d that if he forces the issue, I will go straight to divorce

^ Is exactly the right thing to do. Just do it x

Bogeyface Mon 26-Aug-13 23:24:51

"Dear (STBX)H

Its seems that you are misunderstanding me so I will be be as plain as I can.

You have destroyed our marriage. You have had sex with another woman, told her that you loved her and planned a future with her. This is not something that I am able to simply forget or "get over".

I have no trust in you and at the moment I am not sure whether I have any love for you.

It is clear to me that your thoughts are about yourself and no one else. You lied to me when I confronted you despite me having proof, you did not do as I asked and give me space. If you truly loved me and respected me then you would give the honesty and thinking time I have asked for and would not be continuing to lie and hassling me to come home.

I make no promises about what will happen. I cannot guarantee that I will want to continue the marriage after I have had some time to think, but what I can tell you is that if you continue to ignore my feelings in this way then I will have no option but to draw a line under our marriage, file for divorce and move on. I dont want to make that decision yet, as I said I need some time to think, but if you force the issue then I will have no choice.

I am afraid that you threw away any choice in what will happen with our marriage the moment you had sex with your mistress.

Regards"

Fireplaces Mon 26-Aug-13 23:39:26

Thank you for your very considered replies and for taking the time to write them; they are really helping me. I would like to send 90% of bogeyfaces email, to be honest, as it reflects my accurate views and would make him realise i meant what I said. I would add a line suggesting a certain day/EOW for him to have access to the DC in the short term. And that I need the car seats back. However I am aware that my views are all over the place at the moment. What does everyone else think of it?

OctopusPete8 Mon 26-Aug-13 23:42:37

Just write how you feel OP, if there is anytime to be blunt and to the point the time is now.

'I feel strongly that he needs to leave me be for a few weeks to think. He wants to come straight home. I feel like saying that he needs to give the space I ask for a d that if he forces the issue, I will go straight to divorce'

I would text him that tbh.

Bogeyface Mon 26-Aug-13 23:48:47

I am good at emails!

But Octopus is right, just put what you feel. I wrote that to put across the point that while you dont want to be antagonistic, you dont have to be nice.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Mon 26-Aug-13 23:54:20

I would send it as it is, it's perfect or what you wrote earlier, that too was perfect. With a line about the car seats - but tell him where to drop them off (friends/parents/doorstep/whatever) and another about when it suits you for him to see the children. Also, what you are both going to tell the children. Most young kids accept Daddy has to work away & will come and take you out while Mummy does some jobs, older kids you can just say that Daddy has made Mummy very upset and sometimes if one adult does that to another adult it's best if the stay at a friends for a little while.

Wellwobbly Tue 27-Aug-13 05:58:19

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Wellwobbly Tue 27-Aug-13 06:23:43

I have asked my post to be deleted because it is a psychological discussion on splitting and not helpful.

Fireplace, you are being so clear, and focussed on the real issues here. Wow like Worcestershire I say you are being strong firm and clear. He really underestimated his wife!

You also are very aware of the risk of what would happen if you did just let him back. Your 'obsessing for the next 20 years' is a brilliant description of how it would be.

For a man to recover his marriage after this (and my husband tried) he would have to really, really look at himself and own his selfishness and entitlement - and how much better he really believes he is, compared to you and your tedious emotional needs. But those aren't really the qualities of the humility required are they! My H went to counselling till the precise moment where he realised that they were only interested in him and what issues in him drove him to 'make the mistaken choices to be happy' he made. Then he stopped.

It takes a hell of a man to really look at himself and commit to becoming a better person. Very very rare (lucky wives if they do, I know I would have got over the affair in time had he learned from it and chosen to grow up). Most of it is like Chipping says: you try so hard, but end up separating anyway, because they just want to carry on like they always have been 'move on' whilst you have woken up to how incredibly selfish they are - and always have been, and the marriage has always been lop-sided. That was my experience as well.

Vivacia Tue 27-Aug-13 06:53:26

I advocated little, if no, contact yesterday fire but I think something pretty much like Bogey's email would be helpful for to get things off your chest. However I also think any hour you're not jumping to his tune accomplishes two things. One, it gives you time to reflect and not make any mistakes with contact you later regret. Two, it's another hour he learns to miss what he's lost. For these reasons I advocate leaving a reply until tonight or tomorrow.

onetiredmummy Tue 27-Aug-13 06:59:50

IMO your post was fine wobbly. It is natural and understandable to be angry and your comment about telling everyone was correct . Anger can be helpful in an instance like this, it keeps you strong and less likely to cave in. Why shouldn't you be angry , (particularly if his family put pressure on you to give in and be a good girl and their son is worth another chance and its your fault for not keeping him happy anyway.) I think your post is helpful, as are most on this thread. I didn't find you bitter or unhelpful and you should not have to justify your comments.

One of the strengths of mn is our collective experience and opinion on stuff like this, I wish I had been posting in the last few months of my marriage and subsequent divorce. I would have done a lot of things differently.

So fireplaces stay strong, you are doing fantastically . Of course he wants to move back in and forget all about it, but you take things at your pace and stand firm brew

Just to say you are being so strong thanks

If he doesn't leave you alone then how the hell are you supposed to even think about starting to heal yourself and decide what you want, without him reappearing like a bad smell constant reminder?

Can you really forgive a man that's told another woman he loves her when he's living with a wife and a family? Are you sure it's not just because you don't want to lose what you had before you discovered the affair?

Hope you're ok this morning brew

LittlePeaPod Tue 27-Aug-13 13:42:47

Just another quick note to send you my best and a bit of hand holding. Hope you are doing as well as can be expected today. So far IMHO you are doing amazingly well and you really are an inspiration to other people (women/men) that have/are been treated as appalling as you have been treated by your DH. You are right to have time on your own to work through the hurt, confusion, anger and every other emotion you will be going through at the moment. Your strength so far is commendable and I hope you have the strength to continue to do what is right for you and your children. flowers

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Tue 27-Aug-13 13:57:55

wobbly - I hope MN don't delete it, it's fine & hopefully will help some people to understand a bit better.

fireplaces - have you replied to him?

Fireplaces Tue 27-Aug-13 15:29:42

He has sent me another (third) email today, wanting to comeand put the children to bed tonight and wanting to go away for a long weekend this weekend 'to talk'.

"Well, no thank you", I thought. The sh*t is about to hit the fan as I just sent him this. Views please - reasonable? Unreasonable? Deranged?

==

Dear DH

"It seems that you are misunderstanding me so I will be be as plain as I can.

You have destroyed our marriage. You have had sex with another woman, told her that you loved her, and planned a future with her. This is not something that I am able to simply forget or "get over".

You lied to me when I confronted you, despite me having proof of your full emotional and sexual affair with your work colleague. You still have not had the decency to admit to this.

I have asked you three times now to stay away from me for a few weeks, to give me the space I need to think about whether our marriage is viable in the future. I did not say A week, I said, A FEW weeks. I will let you know when I am ready to talk to you. At the moment I still feel traumatised; sick, shaky, and too angry to see you.

I have every right to have time on my own to work through the hurt, confusion, anger and every other emotion I am going through at the moment. You are not doing as I asked and giving me that space. If you truly loved me and respected me then you would give the honesty and thinking time I have asked for and would not be hassling me to come home. You are pushing me faster than I need to go.

If you truly want to make amends, you will do anything you can to make it up to me. For now, this is time and space to process my thoughts and that is what you should understand.

I make no promises about what will happen. I cannot guarantee that I will want to continue the marriage after I have had some time to think, but what I can tell you is that if you continue to ignore my feelings in this way then I will have no option but to draw a line under our marriage, file for divorce and move on. I don't want to make that decision yet, as I said I need some time to think, but if you force the issue by insisting on coming here, then I will have no choice.

I am afraid that you threw away any choice in what will happen with our marriage the moment you had sex with your mistress.

With regards to access to the children, I am happy for you to take them out this Saturday and/or Sunday and am happy to discuss the timings with regards to this.

With regards to your stuff from the house that you want; as I said before, please let me know what you need and I can leave it outside at a mutually convenient time. At the same time, please can you leave me the children's car seats so I can get them around safely.

Fireplaces

Wellwobbly Tue 27-Aug-13 15:34:04

Fireplaces? YOU ROCK.

I am in awe. Well done.

onetiredmummy Tue 27-Aug-13 15:35:11

Yep that's really good. I like it, not deranged at all. Just calm, dignified & cold.

Well done x

Vivacia Tue 27-Aug-13 15:36:06

I think it's sensible, fair and honest. Have no regrets about sending that. Well done Fire, you're coping great in the worst situation.

fieldfare Tue 27-Aug-13 15:43:31

Super response, well done.

solarbright Tue 27-Aug-13 15:47:53

You are awesome, Fireplaces. You should be very proud of sending that. Please go see a solicitor when you are ready. I'm sorry you're in this awful situation but you are handling it with such dignity and intelligence.

Very, very good OP. Perfect response.

ShedWood Tue 27-Aug-13 15:55:16

What a dignified and well written email Fireplaces well done you.

I know you probably don't feel like it at the moment but you are doing yourself the world of good by drawing your line in the sand and telling him plain and simple that his behaviour is unacceptable within your marriage. If he stays or goes in the long term he knows exactly where you stand and what he stands to lose.

I really wish that this is the beginning of a brighter future for you and your DCs, however you decide to move forward.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Tue 27-Aug-13 15:59:39

I haven't read your reply yet, but I just wanted to say, before I burst... I would be at boiling point with him and I would want to divorce him for his sheer fucking annoying behaviour when you have told him to leave you alone...

I think I would have replied...

Get To Fuck with what you want you self absorbed stupid fucking shit head and leave me the hell alone before I file for harrassment let alone divorce!!

Now I will go and read your undoubtedly more patient & polite response.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Tue 27-Aug-13 16:02:30

Well done my love. It was a great blend of things you said & things other people suggested. We await his reply. I have the shovel ready.

Wellwobbly Tue 27-Aug-13 16:10:29

Brilliant observations Shedwood. You have clearly drawn a boundary and by staying calm kept the spotlight on HIS behaviour [where he doesn't want it to be].

I wonder when he will tell the immoral, boundaryless POS co worker...

LittlePeaPod Tue 27-Aug-13 16:10:43

Very dignified and honest Op. Nothing deranged, bitter and/or unreasonable in your email. Just plain honesty and truth. Keep strong and remember you need to do what is right for you

That is a brilliant email. I can feel him shitting himself all the way over here in Essex.

You really do need time and space to thing and have time for yourself, I was quite amazed when I had my time without DH at how little I did for myself, to make myself feel good.

It did me the world of good to put myself, my thpught and feelings before anyone else's.

Great reply.
You are being so strong (although I know that's not how you are really feeling!)
Keep repeating and do NOT let him into the house.
You'll never get rid of him again.
Keep going keep strong!
As PP said 'YOU ROCK'!

ImpulsePineapple Tue 27-Aug-13 16:48:44

Unlurking to say how awesome you are. And please re read this thread everytime you feel wobbly or unawesome.

A horrible, horrible, time for you. Take all the support you can from here and in RL (have you started telling people? It really helps, and no one judges you, honest)

Repeat to yourself "MY rules now" and don't let him move your (very fair) boundaries one millimetre.

Well done on that sensible email. And do listen to wellwobbly, despite some doubters, she knows her stuff. (Didn't something similar happen to wwifn? There is a contingent of people who do not like posters shining a light on infidelity behaviour for some reason)

Lweji Tue 27-Aug-13 17:17:06

That is assertiveness. smile

You will be ok.

Fireplaces Tue 27-Aug-13 17:34:17

OK, I sent that to him. Then I sent a few emails to some joint friends cancelling my attendance at a function in ten days time. I decided that I was sick of the lies involved thanks to DH's affair, so I told them the truth as to why I could not attend with my DH. The shit will hit the fan when he finds out about that I think but I am so sick of the lies.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Tue 27-Aug-13 17:38:19

Well done, it's important to 'make it real' for all concerned.

Make sure you are ready with your replies when it does hit the fan. HE had the affair, you are NOT obliged to keep his dirty little secret, this is NOT HIS business, it's yours etc.

BRAVO! <delurks after trying to post and not having the right words>

Fireplaces Tue 27-Aug-13 17:40:02

Have just had a response from DH to my email of today: - what are your views to this response? I am very surprised he is really angry by my refusal to play ball, and I am amazed he has seen a dr. I am not sure I believe him actually - do you think it would be ok to ask for the name of the consultant he saw?

==

"Dear Fireplaces

I am not expecting you to get over this, I made a terrible mistake and I know what it will take to put it right. I just want the opportunity to communicate with you and spending the time together is the best way I can see to do this. I am sorry if you feel that that I am pushing you - but I hope you take it as a sign that I want to do anything I can make things right as quickly as possible, for the sake of us and the DC. As I say - I made a terrible mistake - you have every right to be angry and hurt, but I want you to know I will do anything to put it right.

I have just been to see a consultant at xx (private hospital) and he is going to find a referral for counselling. When you are ready to discuss I would like us to go together?

I will drop the car seats this evening at around 8pm - can you leave the Fiesta unlocked and I will change the seats over, The things I need are x x and x . If you leave them in the Fiesta I will take them with me. At the same time I would like to leave some things that I don't need which I will leave in the car.

I am truly sorry that I hurt you and the boys. I desperately want to put it right.

DH"

Jammee Tue 27-Aug-13 17:45:16

He had an affair with a work colleague? Has he offered to resign immediately??

Vivacia Tue 27-Aug-13 17:45:17

He really isn't listening is he? I would sleep on it and send a very short reply saying you know best what you need and you've already told him. No contact other than about the children (email/texts only).

Vivacia Tue 27-Aug-13 17:46:50

And why does he think that you need to see a counsellor? He just isn't listening to you at all and I'm flabbergasted that he thinks he can still call the shots.

Vivacia Tue 27-Aug-13 17:48:15

Actually, I'm wrong. Just don't respond. You've told him what the deal is, no need to get in to an email exchange.

I would say: if you will do anything to put it right do as I have asked and stay away. I will not be responding to any more of your emails.

Jammee Tue 27-Aug-13 17:54:38

Actually (I will get slated or this) I think he sent a good email. If I did something terrible and DH asked for time, no matter how sorry I was and how much I respected his feelings, every hour I had to wait without being able to physically see him and talk to him to let him know how sorry I was would be agony, and I would have trouble keeping quiet.

It's not unreasonable to ask for space at all but I don't think him pushing to see/talk to you in person is a sign of disrespect. It is a sign of a scared husband who knows he's potentially about to lose everything and in such an emotional situation, the only way he can think to save things is to be near you. Until you have heard what he has to say, you can't really know how much he values you and how sorry he is. Don't write him off before you have that conversation. If, at that point, he doesn't make you feel respected, understood or valued, ditch him.

I am not expecting you to get over this, I made a terrible mistake and I know what it will take to put it right. I just want the opportunity to communicate

He does not know what will put it right at all, or even if it can be put right. And what he wants is less important right now than what ^you* need.

He thinks he can sort this. His way. Arrogant.

Bollocks. He's trying to control the situation, refusing to give OP the space she needs. It's not about what HE needs. It's about what the OP needs. It's still all about him.

Vivacia Tue 27-Aug-13 18:12:45

Jamm thats an interesting contribution and you are right, he might well be in agony, but so is the OP. And so will his kids be at some point. He caused this, and he needs to put others' wishes first now.

LittlePeaPod Tue 27-Aug-13 18:14:31

Op I don't think his email sounds angry however I do think you need space and time to clear your head and truly understand what you want in the future. Leave his stuff in the car and let him sort the car sets for the DC and keep making it clear you want/need space.

I wouldn't bother with the Dr. Question because at the end of the day regardless of whether or not his seeing a Dr, what matters is what you want your future to look like. You won't know this till you have time and space to think.

You are so brave to stay so strong.

ShineyBlackShoes Tue 27-Aug-13 18:15:58

Fireplaces. You need to consider whether you will ever be able to trust him again. Wen he is late home, goes out with mates, pops to the shops...if you will be worrying where he is and who he is with then give up on this now. If you think you can handle this then go for counselling yourself alone, and couples counselling.

I left my ExH after he had a very lo term affair with his best friends wife. We tried for a while but he continued to see her then when he stopped, lr said he had, i never trusted him and couldn't live like that. Leaving was hard and being an LP is not easy but I could not live with the mess he had left us in.

Good luck

Feelingworried67 Tue 27-Aug-13 18:17:48

I kind of agree with Jammee... shock

It seems heart felt, and sincere. But I don't know him so only you can tell...

Again like Jammee if it were me in the wrong I would spend every waking moment trying to see DH to sort it out, but you OP, do what is best for YOU.

You have been so strong and dignified. Keep it up xx

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Tue 27-Aug-13 18:23:12

Fireplaces

I don't know if he has seen a Dr or not and tbh it doesn't matter. Do not engage about this, ignore it. Asking for the name of the consultant will just make him think you are interested in the details of his 'attempt' to 'make this better'. Ignore.

Others will say not to reply or will come up with shorter, snappier replies, but this is what I would reply.

DH

'A mistake' - really? You have had an affair, you have had sex & an emotional connection with someone else over a prolonged period, you told someone else you loved them - you haven't just picked up whole milk instead of skimmed milk. 'Mistake' really doesn't cover what you have done and merely tries to minimise it.

I am not expecting you to get over this

Good. Then we are both on the same page.

I know what it will take to put it right

Do you? Do you just? It cannot be 'put right', it is either over or we start again at the beginning, there is no easy fix. Should I decide to go forward with our marriage it will not be YOU deciding what needs to be done to put it right, it will be ME.

I just want the opportunity to communicate with you and spending the time together is the best way I can see to do this

I don't care what YOU think is the best way to do this, I am telling you that I do not want to see you or speak to you until I am ready. I will NOT be bullied into it. It is not about what YOU need.

I am sorry if you feel that that I am pushing you - but I hope you take it as a sign that I want to do anything I can make things right as quickly as possible

No, I take it as a sign that you do not care what I want or need, but only about your own feelings.

for the sake of us and the DC

If you had given me or the children a single thought, we would not be in this position, do NOT attempt to manipulate me in this way, it will NOT work.

I am truly sorry that I hurt you and the boys. I desperately want to put it right

Then listen to me - I do not want to talk to you, see you or get emails like this from you. What I need is space from you - if you continue with this barrage of texts & emails I will draw the line under our marriage and file for divorce.

Fireplaces

I don't think you need to reply and I do think its a well thought out email. Do you think you need to see a counsellor?

Lets hope he now gives you some space and respects what you have asked of him.

Make sure you try and eat as well as rest.

Squitten Tue 27-Aug-13 18:27:46

Don't reply to that. There's no point demanding he stay away from you (quite rightly!) and then becoming drawn into an email chat instead. Don't ask about the Dr and I also wouldn't even think about counselling with him just now. HE is the one who thought it was ok to sleep around so HE needs to work out what's wrong with his head before you can even consider doing anything jointly.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Tue 27-Aug-13 18:30:36

If you think a counsellor then see your own and on your own until you are in a place to see one with him and only if you want to.

I think he has thought this email out too but I don't think he is anywhere close to understanding what he has done to you because at the moment it's all about he thinks he has lost...it's all about him.

He's been acting like a selfish arse for a long old while...that doesn't just suddenly stop IMO.

You are doing amazingly!

Jammee Tue 27-Aug-13 18:33:09

I certainly think his requests to see you/speak to you/have counselling could be seen as him trying to dictate, to him ignoring your wishes and thinking about his needs, but if people are honest with themselves, a lot of truly sorry people would react in the same way, too.

It is all about the OP and her DC. That's what's important but I don't think undue negativity from posters on here is necessarily helpful to OP. Yes, she wants advice, support and opinions but his email wasn't disrespectful, so from what OP has shared with us, we can't know if he falls into the selfish, controlling category or the truly sorry category. We don't know him. OP does, and she has said she needs time to reflect, and then to talk, before she can completely write him off, too.

I think support on here is great, with loads of valuable contributions, but its easy to slate a cheater, and say they cannot be truly sorry or that they want everything on their terms, but sometimes relationships can get back on track, and I'm sure everyone telling a person how bad the DH is and how he wants everything his own way can only make it harder for the relationship to be repaired. Anyway, that's how I see it, objectively, as I don't know OP or her DH, so can only generalise.

OP, I do think you are being amazingly strong and dignified, and should take as much time as you need. You need to do what is right for you and your DCs. If that means giving it another go with your DH then he will be a very lucky man, as you sound like an amazing woman.

Lizzabadger Tue 27-Aug-13 18:38:43

Ignore, ignore, ignore.

Fireplaces you're an amazing woman, I salute you. So strong and dignified. Your DH could learn a lot from you, and I bet he realises that now.

I'm going to go against the majority and say I think it is good to communicate. I've never known a relationship suffer through too much communication, but many fail due to too little.

Your DH has written a good response. He's not imposing himself on you, he is offering to change the car seats over, and pick up/drop off stuff in a way so that you do not have to see him. He's offered to go to counselling. I don't read it that he thinks you personally need counselling, but that you as a couple may benefit from it. I've never been to counselling myself, and would rather walk over hot coals than drag DH along, but for some people it is an important step in recovering from something like this, so perhaps he feels this is the 'right' thing to offer. You know him, so you can judge best what his intention is.

My DH's affair was a catalyst for something good in our relationship. We started talking, uncovered so many misunderstandings, healed so much hurt. We actually became good friends again. We did split up, but it was amicable, and I actually felt good about starting life again with him still in it, as a friend. Reconciliation came much later, when we were both in a neutral place. You need to be happy on your own before you can even think about being happy again together.

I say talk to him, but on your terms. Email is a good way as you can say what you want without being overwhelmed by the emotion of the situation. DH and I emailed each other a lot. We also went out to dinner together, which was another good way of talking sensibly, as a restaurant is not the place for a melt down.

I wish you well. Don't listen to people who tell you what to do, they aren't you, they have no idea about your life. Ask yourself what you want and go from there.

Hissy Tue 27-Aug-13 18:49:19

Don't respond.

Get the things in the car ready, and have the visible lights in your home switched off if you're there. Give the appearance that you're not there.

This guy needs to know what losing it all's going to look like.

If you cave now, he'll know he's got the upper hand back.

He can't have that, he has to really work hard to get back to speaking terms.

Yes in time, hear him out, but not this week.

You asked for space, give it at least a week, ideally 2.

You need the distance and he needs to take a long hard look at himself.

Silence is the strongest negotiation tool there is!

FriskyHenderson Tue 27-Aug-13 18:56:00

If you ignore the "I know best" tone then I suppose it's not a bad response. But you don't need to reply. Just leave the stuff out and take the time you need to decide what you need now, rather than what he has decided that you do.

Wellwobbly Tue 27-Aug-13 18:58:10

Fireplaces, do NOT engage. He is very used to controlling the situation, and 'communicating with you' will be his way of persauding you. Does this man work in the City? He comes across as an executive and used to being in command of stuff. You really do need time, peace and quiet to think about things.

Isn't it funny that it is a terrible mistake, only when they get found out? Mr W had a 2 year affair with his co worker (he was her boss) which only stopped when he got found out and then that was a 'terrible mistake' as well.

The only counselling he needs is to examine the ENTITLEMENT he has to do whatever he wants. When he wants, and how he wants. And to think that 'a conversation' will fix it.

Fireplaces, this is NOT about the marriage. I would be deeply suspicious of any counsellor that made it about the marriage. When you are feeling annoyed, neglected, bored or any of the niggles that go on in marriage, you have no right to take this option. Only selfish people who truly think they are more important, do.

For the sake of his marriage and his children? Really????!

The car seats are the truly humble and penitent bit of the letter.

Please ignore this and do not respond. SHUN him. This letter is staggeringly like the ones that I received, and I made the mistake of engaging.

Wellwobbly Tue 27-Aug-13 19:08:22

'We did split up, but it was amicable, and I actually felt good about starting life again with him still in it, as a friend. Reconciliation came much later, when we were both in a neutral place. You need to be happy on your own before you can even think about being happy again together. '

Wow, Worcester, I didn't know that. That is wonderful to find out, how the space and the finding yourself first and the neutrality eventually became a healing process. What a lovely story, and it makes such sense.

I must respectfully disagree with you about communication right now. I could be completely wrong, but from the articulate and persausive tone of the letter I am picking up 'City' /executive. And what that means IR is that he works very long hours, and is used to negotiating and persauding. That would be 'his turf'. Fireplaces is a SAHM that picks everything up behind him and he has come to take her for granted. [Forgive me if this is my imaginings Fire].

So, to 'communicate' now would be to go back onto 'his turf' and his locus of control.

Fireplaces to shun him at the moment and for him to stay in the silence of his making, is what he needs right now.

He still hasn't admitted anything has he?

He knows what it will take to put it right. Does he now. He probably thinks it will take weekends away and lots of sex and more attention for him to put things right.

Sod his 'agony', its self inflicted.

I would just repeat the bit about going straight to divorce if he tries to push you for anything before you are ready.

And I remember something from a thread a while back, where a woman suggested a weekend away with her straying husband to try and put things right. She was told that this would be REWARDING him for his behaviour, so don't go there.

So many many times on these threads a woman is told to chuck the man out and give the woman some distance so she can think straight. And they ignore the advice and take him straight back, then wonder why they can't work things out. His OW is probably married or still living with her parents, otherwise he'd be at hers? But no, he wants to come home cos he's probably got nowhere else to go.

I'd put the stuff in the car tonight, leave it unlocked, and go out. Don't even be in the house so he can't be tempted to try and come in and sweet talk you. Or if he still has keys, lock from inside and put the bolts on and then sit upstairs listening to music with the earphones in!

Vivacia Tue 27-Aug-13 19:34:26

I'm a bit curious about the things he doesn't need that he wants to drop off.

Fireplace you've been so amazing.

Just wanted to say that the point about "hysterical bonding" is so true. After my DP's latest dalliance I think we did that, and tricked ourselves into thinking it had been some kind of cathartic thing that we "needed" to open up lines of communication. Things have been good since, but every time he compliments me I wonder who's benefit it's for; and every act of "sweet" behaviour raises an eyebrow from me, wondering how much of it is pointed. I've been as nasty as anything to him since then, said every nasty thing I've ever thought about him in the relationship, confronted him about every latent issue, but somehow I always feel there's a part of me that's just trying to make him suffer, because really, there's no substitution for completely locking them out. I didn't do that and if I'm honest I still regret it, because I'm tormented by the fact that nothing I say or do since is going to have any impact. I've made him feel safe, so he can just hang his head and buy me a present and none of it really penetrates. It's all, at least in theory, just a demonstration.

So you're doing the right thing. For yourself as much as anything.

Fireplaces Tue 27-Aug-13 21:10:42

OK, I am going to answer some questions:

Vivacia stuff he didn't need from when I churned everything in his cupboard into a suitcase at the weekend.I imagine he's fed up of turfing it around.

Jammee I know he is looking for a new job but not as a result of my discovery. I looked at the computer history and found lots of recent job searches in there.

Vivacia I think he means marriage guidance counsellor. I am not sure.

jammee This is the most contrite sort of emails I have EVER seen from him. I think this is honestly the best he can do. I am astonished they are so contrite and that he is now doing as I ask. I thought he would go bonkers when I said I had told joint friends, but he just said 'ok'.

Chippin I like your replies. Just imagining writing them has given me strength and empowerement.

Wobbly I am interested to see that you can see that he is a high powered executive in the City from his tone,who is used to being in charge. Spot on.

Vivacia Tue 27-Aug-13 21:15:31

How are you feeling tonight? How are you doing?

Fireplaces Tue 27-Aug-13 21:18:30

While he was actually in such a contrite mood (for him), I decided to ask him some questions about the OW. This is because the "Not Just Friends" book I am reading says it's important at this stage to know some basic truths. So I said in my email that I wanted to know the answers to some basic questions about the OW, and how important it was, and that it was the truth.

Well you could knock me down with a feather, because ten minutes later, through on the email comes a full admission. (in writing, of adultery = happy solicitor wink).

She is 23 fucking years old. (He is late 40s). She is his junior at work. He has been to her place, or they went to a hotel. But here's the one that has completely floored me. I am soooo fucking mad about this one. IT'S BEEN GOING ON SINCE NOVEMBER.

I am so cross. And I am thinking HOW CAN I HAVE BEEN SO STUPID?WHY DIDN'T I FIND OUT BEFORE? (sorry to shout; I want to get across how these are going through my head so loudly).

aaarrrgggghhhh.

And Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Cluffyflump Tue 27-Aug-13 21:22:06

So sorry Fireplaces sad

No words of wisdom here, just sorry for you.

Jammee Tue 27-Aug-13 21:23:44

That is terrible, Fire. November! Does this change how you feel; more or less confused about your future now?

Hugs x

ShipwreckedAndComatose Tue 27-Aug-13 21:25:48

23!! wow!! that's actually nauseating.

you didn't find out because you trusted your husband and why would you not? After all, that's what he promised in his wedding vows!!!

Jammee Tue 27-Aug-13 21:28:47

That is such a long time. I feel terrible for you, Fire.

And he spent your family income on hotels? I'd start selling some of his stuff and pocket the proceeds.

Scarletohello Tue 27-Aug-13 21:28:53

The fact it's been going on so long would really make me doubt his words of contrition. It would still be going on if you hadn't found out and confronted him about it ( as he didn't confess it to you). It sounds like a classic mud life crisis, cake eating affair. So sorry, this must be devastating for you. Am glad you have had such great support on here. Stay strong. X

ShipwreckedAndComatose Tue 27-Aug-13 21:31:24

exactly Scarlet... he's into damage limitation. This isn't some one off that he couldn't help ({hmm]). Its systematic, long term planning.

so sorry.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Tue 27-Aug-13 21:34:10

I'm not sending you a hug because I want you to stay ANGRY.

Sadly, it's no suprise. Good to have it all in an email though - mind you, that's only what he's admitting to, there will be more.

What did you reply?

Has he been with the car seats? Did he knock on the door?

(Sometimes writing the emails is catharic and you can leave it until the next day to see if you want to send them or not.)

balia Tue 27-Aug-13 21:42:52

Oh God, so sorry, fireplaces. Ouch ouch ouch - I remember this as being one of the worst bits - that shifting sands feeling. Suddenly all your memories are not real because the DH that was in them was not the real DH (if that makes sense). And sudden memories will resuface for ages after, when you realise why things happened, or what was really going on. And feeling like a total fool, God yes. Because you trusted someone. Lots of us have been there - at least you were smart enough to work it out. Some woman texted mine on new year's eve, very romantic even graphic stuff - and I STILL believed his BS excuse.

How many people know at his work, do you think?

And you will get through, fireplaces, it gets better.

(And has anyone mentioned STD clinic?)

Ahhhcrap Tue 27-Aug-13 21:49:39

Been reading through this thread and just wanted to say WOW !! I'm in awe of you Fireplaces.. Well done for remaining the adult in this...

What I will say is he's been a complete twat! But (and I may get slated for this) and whilst it hurts like a fucker (I know I've been there too hmm ) but him admitting it, and being honest with his answers and not blaming you, even though him telling you may mean you divorce him, is the best way he can be. It will help you even if you decide to call it a day in your marriage.

Fireplaces Tue 27-Aug-13 21:49:42

Chippin Yes car seats are here. He did not knock on the door

balia that shifting sands feeling. Suddenly all your memories are not real because the DH that was in them was not the real DH (if that makes sense). And sudden memories will resuface for ages after, when you realise why things happened, or what was really going on. And feeling like a total fool, God yes

Exactly. I am sitting here sobbing my heart out.Since last NOVEMBER FOR FUCK'S SAKE. How could I be so stupid?How did I not notice? The marriage was bad over that time.Now I know why.

How the fuck he thinks he can make this one alright at the wave of his executive wand I don't know.

I am so upset.

Fireplaces Tue 27-Aug-13 21:51:59

I have given 13 years of my life to this man and he could do this to me. Since last fucking November. I hate him so much right now. I am crying so hard . How is it possible to hurt like this?

November? All over Christmas sad and no doubt birthdays and or anniversaries.

I wish I had read that book before I went through it all, there are still things I wish I had done differently.

You must be steaming angry fire.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Tue 27-Aug-13 22:02:53

I wish I had had MN at the time, though, I'm not sure I would have listened hmm Because 'he was different, he wasn't like that, he wouldn't do that'. Except he wasn't, he was & he did. <sigh>

He checked out of your marriage a long time ago, that creates a lot of problems. Women often think that marriage problems >>> affair. It's far more often affair >>> marriage problems - no suprise.

It hurts, it hurts so so so much. It makes you feel so shit about them, your relationship and worst of all, yourself.

PedantMarina Tue 27-Aug-13 22:47:43

If she's a junior, I can almost guarantee his looking for another job has everything to do with this. City firms differ, but overall the industry (finance or legal, btw?) are cracking down on sexual harrassment, which this could well be. Sorry, fireplaces, you already don't know so much about this; I worry that there's more to be discovered.

And to those who would argue that she was saying she loves him, let's all remember how things work on the EA freds. 23 is almost nothing in age and experience. We're already familiar with DH's 'communicaton', it is entirely possible this didn't start out a iwilling mistress.

Not trying to get OW entirely off the hook, just want you to prepare to hear more.(&/or actively go looking for it).

I'm so so sorry Fireplaces. I understand the hurt all too well. It gets better though. It does. You have to believe me on this. It really really does.

What worked for me was to think what the young single me would have done over a shit boyfriend. She would have kicked him into touch and moved on. Once I started thinking like that, I started being happy about my future, stopped pining after him, and felt my confidence and personality returning. I bet you've suppressed those aspects of yourself. It's a great opportunity to be you again. Be you, be free, and let him be miserable. Because he will be right now.

Speak to a lawyer, knowing your options will help you feel calm and safe. You won't be left high and dry, you will get a significant chunk of the assets and maintenance.

Others seem to think it is better not to communicate and perhaps they are right. In my case communication solved a lot of problems, BUT I am also an ex City exec type and my DH has never been able to control me through argument, so he didn't try.

Fireplaces Tue 27-Aug-13 23:13:10

worcestershiresauce I have seen a solicitor and you are bang on saying that it would make me feel calmer and safer. He said I would get a good chunk of the assets too. Which helps ease that worry.

Quiltcover Tue 27-Aug-13 23:17:37

Bloody hell. I couldn't get over that level of deceit. Sometimes there is just no going back.

So sorry Fire, wishing you continued strength flowers

antimatter Tue 27-Aug-13 23:34:32

well done Fireplaces, I am in awe how how eloquently you are dealing with your ex (stbexh?).

I think being able to think straight when you are under such stress shows your strength.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Wed 28-Aug-13 07:31:10

Hope you are doing ok today. thanks

FriedSprout Wed 28-Aug-13 08:20:09

Hi Fireplace, please don't beat yourself up over not noticing! Why should you be on the look out for this kind of behaviour in what you thought was a secure loving marriage. The whole point of marriage is to expect a certain level of trust, not to have to look for/find his kind of behaviour. He broke the rules not you.

Stay strong,

saffronwblue Wed 28-Aug-13 08:34:11

Just delurking to say you are amazing,* Fireplaces*! So strong and articulate despite your evdent shock and grief.

balia Wed 28-Aug-13 09:09:08

Morning fireplaces how are you doing this morning? Are you managing to eat?

ofmiceandmen Wed 28-Aug-13 09:53:59

Balia that has to be the best message of support I have read thus far on this - and believe you me there is some brilliant advice already posted.

Yes it's amazing how the basic things like eating just don't happen anymore at such moments.

ok must return to lurking... I can't articulate in words or advice what I am feeling reading your thread Fireplaces. wish you the best whatever decisions you take.

LittlePeaPod Wed 28-Aug-13 10:14:27

Fireplace how awful for you. This was clearly nothing to do with mutual mature intellectual attraction. This looks to have all clearly been an ego boosting affair with a girl young enough to be his daughter. What a total egotistical arse! angry

You are not a fool, you trusted him and he betrayed that trust. That does not make you a fool. I am not advocating you LB at the moment because I think you need time to think about what's right for you and your children. But I do think you need to start positioning yourself in case you decide this is the end of your marriage. Getting the right legal advice to understand how you protect yourself and your children's assets is very important. I know you have already seen someone however in case you need a second opinion. My friend used Marilyn Stowe (one of the toughest divorce layers in the country. She is also dubbed "the barracuda" for the aggressive way she acts in divorce proceedings - she is good) when she divorced her husband (who is himself a corporate lawyer). Put it this way and how does the phrase go "She took him to the cleaners". Her grounds for divorce were similar to yours, affair with a younger colleague etc.

www.marilynstowe.co.uk/

ofmiceandmen Wed 28-Aug-13 10:20:23

Not sure if this helps in any way.
But I watched my DMum go from a alpha wonder woman to a shadow of herself after my Fathers affair(s). No Facebook or texts those days but good old fashioned letters I discovered and stupidly handed to her (love letters under blankets in the airing cupboard don't make sense to a child).

She forgave and swallowed the pain and he got away with it.

She won the booby prize -Now he's in his 60's not so high flying (he was a footballer) and probably doesn't cheat because no one wants a shrivelled old thing that lost it all (penniless now - No surprise there).

What he wanted was security a place to come home to - not someone to cherish and love. He knew the lovers would never be there in the end, and so Mum was his future carer, he would have a meal waiting for him, and she would accept the scraps waiting in the wings.

So now she takes care of him, he's penniless, but she works and he lives in her home. My mum never recovered, life for her has few joys.

and non of her children recovered - we all went on to develop co dependency and choose inappropriate partners. I went on to a marriage where I tried to fix someone, tried to be the perfect dad etc.

The decision now is what do YOU want your future to be. your H is no longer in your thinking IMHO.
I know this is hard, but you've gotta find happiness for you and your DC

This is now about YOU.

Fireplaces Wed 28-Aug-13 10:23:12

Morning. Last night was so awful. I didn't get to sleep til 4am and even then it was very fitful.
I am not managing to eat when there are bad revelations as I feel physically sick but know I need to go and try breakfast. I have a stomach upset which I think is related to the stress.
I cannot find this thread when I look in 'relationships'....is it my tired eyes not seeing it or has it been moved?

LittlePeaPod Wed 28-Aug-13 10:40:13

Fireplaces the thread is still in Relationships. Try and get a little food to keep your energy up. Have you spoken to any of your family/friends? It's not a good time to be one your own. flowers

You can find it by going Threads I'm On

Fireplaces I went through the same, I lost half a stone in a week without even noticing. It was actually the PT instructor at the gym who noticed, and it is largely thanks to him I turned it around. He offered to do some personal training sessions to give me something else to focus on. I had so much fun, boxing is a great stress reliever. He also had me keep a food diary, which sounds tedious, but actually meant I ate properly. I didn't want him reading that my total food intake for the day consisted of chocolate and tea!

So, if you can fit it round the dcs perhaps do something similar. Something you'll enjoy that is just for you. You deserve it.

FWIW I think you are one tough cookie and you'll come out of this happy and sorted. You're not clinging on, which is great. Your DH must be absolutely floored by your reaction. Underestimated you didn't he grin

balia Wed 28-Aug-13 11:11:04

I found 'forcing' myself to sit down in front of food and eat impossible. Smoothies are your friend. Or a supplement type drink like Complan. Just carry a bottle around with you and swig when you can. Or a food that you can eat almost mindlessly, like popcorn in front of the telly, so you almost don't notice you're eating it.

How are the DC's?

mikkii Wed 28-Aug-13 11:14:22

Fireplaces, I think you are being really strong.

I was once in a long term relationship and DP had an affair, as there were no children involved my situation was far simpler than yours. Incidentally, he went away to think things over and decided to go to OW. in our position that was right as we had grown apart. They are now married with 2 DC and I am linked to them both on linked in, but we are not friends. I am also married and have 3DC.

The only piece of advice I have for you, is listen to what people (here and in RL) have to say, then do what feels right for you and your DC.

Wellwobbly Wed 28-Aug-13 11:18:15

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

JuliaScurr Wed 28-Aug-13 11:33:00

www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/
legal aid and CAB have suffered from cuts

ShipwreckedAndComatose Wed 28-Aug-13 11:41:03

Yes, I remember thinking I had a stomach upset too. It wasn't't though. I realised I couldn't eat through stress.

Do keep trying, even if it is little and often. It will help you stay strong in an avalanche of emotions

onlysettleforbutterflies Wed 28-Aug-13 12:05:57

Fireplaces I have sadly experienced this pain too and remember how dark and dreadful I felt when it first happened, I remember going shopping and seeing all of these happy people about, I felt like screaming ‘do you know what has just happened to me, my heart is broken’. It came as a total shock, it had been going on for about 18 months, I felt so stupid as I did have suspicions but just dismissed them believing that he wouldn’t do that to me, the pain was indescribable, it felt like my whole life was a lie and as you have said my memories then seemed all false. The rug was literally pulled from underneath me, I didn’t know who I was anymore. I lost lots of weight and actually became quite poorly, so please do as the others have said and force yourself to eat, your DC need to see you eating alongside them. It is very similar to grief what you’re now going through and you will go through all the 5 main stages – denial, anger, bargaining, depression and then finally acceptance. You will come out of the other side and you will be a much happier and stronger person because of it, I can now honestly say I am glad it all happened, it has taught me a lot and life is much better now than it was before.

Things that I found helped me were having a very strong support network of friends and family to listen to me and to also keep me busy, my main focus was to keep my dignity, so I didn’t get involved in slanging matches, I didn’t contact the OW and I also made the decision very early on not to ask about the ins and outs of their relationship, yes I had lots of questions but in reality knowing the answers to how often they met, where etc. would have only hurt me more, the answers certainly wouldn’t have made me feel better. I did the usual things like have a haircut, buy a new wardrobe, started exercising which all really helped, I need to get my self-worth back. I also had a House of Colours image and colour consultation done, was great to have a bit of pampering and helped to build my confidence back up.

Sorry, I’ve gone on a bit, I just wanted you to know that you’re not alone and you will come out the other side.

Wellwobbly Wed 28-Aug-13 12:09:00

Fireplaces can I really confirm that now is not the time to get details.

I remember H's IC said that I would just get re-traumatised which he then used as an excuse to clam up

but she was right. I know stuff about them that only now I am getting to the state of 'meh' that I am finally letting go of.

So just take one thing at a time. Now, it is the trauma of knowing about the betrayal and (ramped up) that she is an idiot 23 year old office junior and (ramped up) they went to hers and hotels.

PLEASE JUST STAY WITH THIS or you will blow your mind. Please believe me on this.

Calmly stay in this moment for this time, ask for the receipts for the hotels and tell him that you want to be paid back, and that little 23 year old needs to send you a cheque for half of it or you will make her life a complete misery. (sorry that is me being evil) angry

Just caught up with this and I am so sorry.
I too have been there!
I didn't find out properly for 8 months.
It will hurt like mad for a while yet.
I cried buckets and buckets for hours and hours.
But as each day goes by, the pain lessens a little bit more.
I can promise you right now - it will get better. You will be fine.
It won't feel like it right now or next week or next month.
But you will get there.
Keep strong and try to look after yourself.
The only things I could really keep down were sugary tea and soup.
As PP also advised - smoothies.
We are here for you and there are many of us who can tell you that it will get better!
Life without them can be so much better as well.
Take each day at a time.
flowers for you!

skyeskyeskye Wed 28-Aug-13 12:48:21

Fireplaces - I lost 3 stone in a matter of weeks. I existed on gallons of water, a multivitamin and half a banana or sandwich a day. That wasn't by choice, I simply couldn't eat. I did make myself ill and ended up on antidepressants because I couldn't stop crying and had a 4yo DD to look after.

For the moment, look after yourself and your DC. Try and eat something, just little and often, a biscuit, a jaffa cake, a banana.

The pain is indescribable and I never ever thought that the man I loved, could simply walk out on me with no warning. I never thought he would betray me with EA with OW. The shock, confusion and grief all hit at once and just have to be worked through.

Surround yourself with as much real life support as you can and just take things easy, a day at a time.

Vivacia Wed 28-Aug-13 13:05:59

I echo those saying that this isn't the end of the world, this won't destroy you. You will be happier one day in the future and have opportunities presented to you that weren't possible whilst in this kind of a relationship.

Right now I think it's absolutely vital to look after yourself with whatever nurture you can provide yourself, no matter how small. Treat yourself as you would treat your adult daughter or best friend in the same situation.
I would also try not to dwell on the other woman or paint her blacker than black. She should be an irrelevance as you deal with your partner.

I also second the advice to see a solicitor, not to make any decisions, but to gather information and facts for when you do come to decision-making.

Wellwobbly Wed 28-Aug-13 13:53:19

Vivacia, have you ever experienced the betrayal of an affair? (I so hope you haven't and never do, it is being a member of the club that no one wanted to join).

But you have just sort looked down on someone writhing on the pavement having taken a hand grenade to the gut, and whilst she is writhing on the ground trying to hold everything in and not expire, said 'don't worry, it's only a little scratch!'

Kind of.

So are you just super cool, if so teach me how!

ShipwreckedAndComatose Wed 28-Aug-13 13:55:21

Funny, I didn't read it that way...at all!

LittlePeaPod Wed 28-Aug-13 14:08:31

WW I have to say I didn't read Vivacia note in the way you may have done. I think she was trying to tell the Op to be kind to herself and remember that in the future things will get better doesn't mean Op will ever forget the pain Maybe I have miss read the note..

ShipwreckedAndComatose Wed 28-Aug-13 14:10:32

Vivacia is right...it does get better, eventually.

balia Wed 28-Aug-13 14:24:25

I think it depends on how long ago you experienced it? Mine was over 10 years ago, I'm very happy now (as I imagine Vivacia is) so although I remember the pain, it's much duller. I think maybe the phrase 'it's not the end of the world' is the one that could be interpreted as unsympathetic, but I don't think it was meant that way.

Whatever - lets not have a bunfight on fireplace's thread, please.

I'd suggest a day of peace if you possibly can, FP - don't open any email, texts or answer any calls from him. Every time something stressful appears in your brain, just repeat - I'll deal with that after today.

SweetSeraphim Wed 28-Aug-13 14:24:56

Wobbly, Vivacia's advice is valid. I think you read it wrong.

Vivacia Wed 28-Aug-13 14:36:20

I would like to avoid competitive misery and always try to avoid invading someone else's thread with my own experience. However, it would feel rude to ignore your question Wobbly. Yes, I have dealt with difficult experiences, including betrayal. I continue to deal with things that challenge me. Sometimes I lose my cool. Sometimes I make mistakes. I just aspire to calmness, dignity and kindness. (Emphasis on the aspire!).

From her reactions to what I write I get the impression that me and Wobbly have very different takes on things. That's ok and I'm comfortable with our differences but would like to thank those of you who defended me where my comments have been misinterpreted,

jeez, he thinks he can just write down this confession and that will make everything alright. When he has made you feel 10 times worse! And a 23 year old, what a twassock.

Can you support yourself financially? Is there much equity in the house?

Has he actually said he will never ever have anything to do with this person again? You don't just go from thinking of someone the minute you wake up and telling them you love them, to reverting all your feelings back to your wife in one easy step. So I suspect that he is shitting it about breaking off with her - if he works with her then he may well be frightened of her reaction. Its easy for a 23 year old to believe every word she is told about their future together - and god knows what he told her about YOU to make her think that he was in a relationship with her!

No,he will have followed the script and told her that things have just got a bit difficult and that they have to lay low for a while. In the meantime he looks for another job and and tries to smooth things over with you.

Wellwobbly Wed 28-Aug-13 14:54:45

No, seriously Vivacia, I would like very much to get to the state of cool, honest.

Sorry if I misread your post.

I was ruminating a bit earlier about forks in the road. Our marriage/his depression started/ending in around 2004 now I look back. (There was definitely a work colleague EA then, but she had class). I will always wonder what was or was not, what I am responsible for and what he was. We will never be able to talk about it, because he is so defensive and I am to blame for everything anyway.

Anyway, thank you for letting me know a little about yourself.

Wellwobbly Wed 28-Aug-13 15:11:26

[Imagining we are a group having coffee and supporting Fireplace, Wobbly having a little aside with Vivacia]

- humbly back to focussing on and supporting Fireplace ...

Fireplaces Wed 28-Aug-13 17:53:10

Evening all. What a wretched day. I am so tired. Feel very upset and very raw. Very much looking forward to getting some sleep (have bought some Nytol) tonight after last night's wretched attempt.

Have managed to eat cereal, sandwich and a cup of soup today. Not much but stomach and resulting toilet trips make it difficult.

I have made an appointment for me to attend an initial consultatioon at Relate. On my own. It will be on Monday. I am starting to get some RL help from friends, but need to talk this stuff through with someone who is trained to guide me etc.

In the meantime, I have the wonderful support of you guys, thank you.

Vivacia Wed 28-Aug-13 17:55:24

I think going to a counsellor is a good idea, glad you've got in so soon.

onefewernow Wed 28-Aug-13 18:42:43

It is a good idea.

You really are coping rather well.

onlysettleforbutterflies Wed 28-Aug-13 18:48:46

Well done for eating and making the relate appt, it will be good for you to talk to someone on the outside. Nytol is great in these situations.

Fireplaces Wed 28-Aug-13 19:13:11

Ok, I have had along concilatory email from him just now.

But there are two things in it I am not happy about and I need your help to construct an assertive but non-confrontational reply please. Also, am I being unreasonable in objecting to these two things? My emotions are very raw and it is difficult to trust them.

"Would it be okay if i do or leave some washing when I am there as I will run out of boxers and shirts etc, by the weekend. Could I then pick this up on Tuesday?"

(I don't want to. I feel that this is the sort of home comforts he has thrown away and no I won't be doing his washing, he can find a launderette.).

"I was planning to tell the boys that you and I have had an argument and that I have been sent away for a while. If you would prefer me to say I am going away on business again, then I will do that."

(I feel this makes it sound like it is all my fault and that 'poor Daddy has been sent away by evil Mummy')

Vivacia Wed 28-Aug-13 19:15:44

Hmm, he's really struggling with this "NO CONTACT" thing isn't he?

I wouldn't reply (sod his laundry logistics, not your problem) and would give your own explanation to the children. Either way, I woudln't reply.

Doha Wed 28-Aug-13 19:18:46

If you feel you have to reply 1 word will do it

NO !!!

Squitten Wed 28-Aug-13 19:18:47

Don't reply. You have already stated - repeatedly! - that you don't want contact so stick to it. He is completely disrespecting you AGAIN by finding pathetic excuses to get your attention.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Wed 28-Aug-13 19:21:12

'Sent away' seriously!! This shows no understanding of what is going on here!!!

Definately no to the washing...he needs to sort his own stuff.

The boys should be told the truth rather than some bullshit version that basically seems to remove any responsibility from him.

Arse.

<downs coffee and slams empty cup down on table. Hard>

He expects you to do his laundry? Tell him to get missy perky tits to do it.

BodminPill Wed 28-Aug-13 19:31:32

The effing cheek of this twat! You are soooooooooo NBU, he on the other hand IS being sooooooooo unreasonable that I could lamp him one!

Not only has he ignored YET AGAIN your perfectly reasonable request to leave you the hell alone whilst you begin process your feelings, he is also asking you to wash his dirty underpants for him to collect at a later date, whilst you do so.

On top of this he is also wanting to tell the boys that you have "sent him away" - aaawwww poor diddums.

I wish I could advise you on what to say or do next, but am so absolutely seething on your behalf that even I can't think straight! So just wanted to let you know that you are right to be annoyed by these two things.

I would also hazard a guess that when you re-read the email again with a cool and impartial head you may find it to be not nearly as conciliatory as you first thought it was. Just the two statements you have highlighted here show how little respect he has for you and that he is really not understanding the magnitude of the consequences of his actions. He things that you just need to calm yourself down dear, then go back to being the good wifey who cleans his pants and shirts.

Colossal twat!

TeeBee Wed 28-Aug-13 19:44:50

Sorry, but I am flabbergasted!!! Is he fucking joking??!!! He wants you to do his washing??!!!!! Seriously, I cannot believe the gall of that man. Personally, I would tell him to go screw himself.

With regards to the children, I would tell the children yourself, and not leave it to him. He is the person that has let your family down. I cannot believe that he wants to tell them that he has been sent away. Again, he is not accepting that this is all his fault. I would decide what you want to tell the children, tell them yourself, and INFORM him what they have been told.

Why are you so worried about being confrontational???

mummytime Wed 28-Aug-13 19:48:19

He is being totally unreasonable.

Tell the boys what you want to tell them.

He really does not get it even remotely - he thinks he goes away for a couple of weeks, then he gets to come back to service as normal. He has not even the smallest grasp that this could be "the end of your relationship". If he can't grasp that then it really has to be, as he will in no way do what he needs to for a successful relationship.

and that is before you even think about whether there is any way you could forgive him.

Get your whore to do your laundry douchebag would be my reply.

And

The boys will be told that you have done something to break mummy's trust and make her very very sad and mummy needs time to forgive you and to try to mend her heart.

I take it all back, don't engage. Honest to god what planet is he on? No to laundry, and absolutely no to telling the dcs you sent him away. Actually, he walked out on you and them. Obviously don't tell them that either. Just grrrrrr on your behalf. He really doesn't get it does he. I actually want to slap him, and I don't even know him.

I need your help to construct an assertive but non-confrontational reply please.

My first answer would be this: "H, Which part of 'Leave Me Alone' did you not fucking well understand? The fact you are ignoring my request to keep away for a while speaks volumes about the amount of respect, love or compassion you have for me. And, no, you may not still use this house to do your washing, those things you took for granted home comforts are unavailable to you now"

But, bearing in mind that you have asked for assertive but non-confrontational reply suggestions, perhaps this: I'm afraid that you bringing your washing here would make me extremely uncomfortable, so I am going to have to say no to that. and I'm surprised you would ask such a thing

As to the other bit about what to tell the children, op, what would you like to tell them?

PAsSweetOrangeLurve Wed 28-Aug-13 20:03:35

I would reply with the following:

I suggest you find a launderette for your washing. The children will be told the truth, in an age appropriate way. I won't tolerate any more lies.

JoinYourPlayfellows Wed 28-Aug-13 20:11:08

This e-mail tells you 2 very important things:

1 He is not sorry at all.

A repentant man wouldn't even dream of asking the wife he had betrayed and devastated to demean herself by washing his skiddy pants.

He thinks he is the big man and you belong to him. That it is your job to be his maid, even after what he has done to you.

He is playing the part of contrite husband because he understands this is what must be done when a man is caught out having a mistress.

But he doesn't believe that it is wrong to have a mistress.

He believes that you need to be mollified until you go back to how things were before.

2 He is not above threatening you

That's what the suggestion about what to tell the boys is.

As well as totally confirming what I said above, it is also a threat that if you keep playing hard ball he will tell the boys that the break up of their family home is all your fault.

This is a guy I would be pressing for a favourable settlement while he's still playing the part of the sorry adulterer.

It won't last long.

And it's skin deep.

WeAreSix Wed 28-Aug-13 20:12:12

De-lurking to say wow, the cheek of him asking to do his washing! Er, no.

PAs' reply is perfect, aside from a clear reminder that you have requested to be left alone several times now. You've warned him of the consequences of not doing as asked. This is the last time or divorce proceedings commence forthwith.

JustinBsMum Wed 28-Aug-13 20:13:22

PAsSweetOrangeLurve makes a good suggestion.

MissFenella Wed 28-Aug-13 20:16:30

bugger me he's got some front!

JoinYourPlayfellows Wed 28-Aug-13 20:16:35

TBH I think you need to see that e-mail as a declaration of war.

A war he thinks he can win with fake contrition, but one that he intends to win at all costs.

I think you should go back to your solicitor and get something drawn up.

Then tell him whatever it takes (short of washing his knickers) to make him agree to a decent settlement.

Then tell him to fuck the fuck off.

MadAboutHotChoc Wed 28-Aug-13 20:16:36

Just read this. What a twat he is and he has the cheek to ask about his laundry - not your problem at all.

Ignore all emails/texts unless it relates to child contact and then it is only to make arrangements - dates/times.

skyeskyeskye Wed 28-Aug-13 20:17:39

What a stupid prick, Words fail me...

but PAs comment is very good , to the point, and non confrontational

IE - I suggest you find a launderette for your washing. The children will be told the truth, in an age appropriate way. I won't tolerate any more lies.

He seriously needs to understand, that his life as he knew it, is over. You are not there to run around after him any more.

Wellwobbly Wed 28-Aug-13 20:22:47

Oh, Fireplace. That really says it all doesn't it, quite HOW MUCH these men take wives/their home/the SUPPORT THEY GET so that they can go out there and be Big Swinging Dicks .... completely for granted.

It is also telling you how much he is minimising what he has done. In the Linda J Macdonald book I recommended you, she devotes nearly the entire first chapter explaining to the cheater, how much he needs to understand what he has done.

'The most important quality that an unfaithful spouse needs in order to successfully regain their offended partner's trust, is that the betrayer 'gets it'.

'Getting it' means that straying spouses understand the wrongness of their behaviour and the depth of the pain they have caused their spouses. Rebuilders need to effectively renounce their old behaviour and develop a keen sense of what it must be like to be in their partner's shoes".

Regarding his email, do not reply. With this level of entitlement, all it does is pull you into a slinging match, where you try and get him to get it and he dodges. please believe me on this.

Erm, being a lady wot lunches, aren't you able to find a qualified psychotherapist? Relate people tend to be -ladies of a certain age-- not very qualified, and there is more to this stuff than a counselling certificate. They might start going on about needs you didn't meet in the marriage, in which case you are in your rights to get up and lamp them which is old fashioned and victimises somebody who is already struggling with betrayal.

Fireplaces Wed 28-Aug-13 20:24:10

We are having to have contact about access to the children.

I have just sent an email about finalising times for contact this weekend.

I have added "I suggest you find a launderette for your washing" to the end.

Bogeyface Wed 28-Aug-13 20:29:08

Dear STBXH

No, that doesnt work for me.

You may not still use this house to do your washing, those things you took for granted are unavailable to you now. I am frankly astounded at your cheek of asking me to do your laundry, do you have any self awareness at all?

As for telling the boys that we had an argument and you got "sent away", I am disgusted that you would try in infer that I am in someway to blame for Daddy not being at home. You are not at home because you cheated and lied to us, not just me but them too. They deserve the truth just as much as I do. So the children will be told the truth, in an age appropriate way. I won't tolerate any more lies.

I would like to take this opportunity to explain to you what "no contact" means. It means that other than emails to discuss contact with the children or any real emergencies, you do not contact me. I will contact you when I am ready to talk, and not before. The fact you are ignoring my request to keep away for a while speaks volumes about the amount of respect, love or compassion you have for me.

REgards

e·mer·gen·cy
/i&#712;m&#601;rj&#601;ns&#275;/
Noun A serious, unexpected, and often dangerous situation requiring immediate action. Dirty pants do not come under this definition.

Wellwobbly Wed 28-Aug-13 20:30:09

His email also shows, sadly, that affairs are not about love. All that guff about love and a future together? A fantasy. Ultimately it was to keep her legs open keep the feelgood coming. Mr Wobbly said clearly: I was not looking for someone to replace you.

What affairs are about, is keeping the benefits of marriage by maintaining a position of advantage over the unknowing wife. Pretending to be monogamous, whilst having a side dish of feelgood. They don't want you to find out and get divorced! The point of affairs IS the secret. The point of affairs IS having your cake and eating it.

So what Mr F needs to experience is a complete LOSS of marriage. No wife, no bedtime stories, no bath unless it is in his own bedsit, no cup of coffee in his favourite chair, no spag bol and sorry Mr F, no clean boxers.

Bogeyface Wed 28-Aug-13 20:30:34

Too late! Lets hope he gets the message!

Wellwobbly Wed 28-Aug-13 20:31:24

Bogey, arf!

Fireplaces Wed 28-Aug-13 20:33:46

Erm, being a lady wot lunches, aren't you able to find a qualified psychotherapist? Relate people tend to be -ladies of a certain age-- not very qualified, and there is more to this stuff than a counselling certificate. They might start going on about needs you didn't meet in the marriage, in which case you are in your rights to get up and lamp them which is old fashioned and victimises somebody who is already struggling with betrayal.

Really? I had no idea.I honestly thought they were qualified counsellors who could help me through my grief, and to get my thoughts in some order so that I can see what decisions I need to make?

ShipwreckedAndComatose Wed 28-Aug-13 20:35:08

He needs to. Understand the importance of the boys finding out the (age appropriate) truth about what has happened from the two of you in a way you can control for them, rather than the risk they could find out from somewhere else (friends, family, over hearing an argument, seeing a solicitor's letter)

Fireplaces Wed 28-Aug-13 20:35:18

Bogeyface - " Emergency Noun A serious, unexpected, and often dangerous situation requiring immediate action. Dirty pants do not come under this definition."

You have just made me smile for the first time this whole week.

SweetSeraphim Wed 28-Aug-13 20:35:52

He's asked you to do his washing??? Tell him to get fucked. What a prick.

Fireplaces Wed 28-Aug-13 20:37:34

I am not doing very well at all this, am I?

He has sort of sucked me back in today. 24 hours ago I was sat on this sofa sobbing very hard and hating the bastard. Now I defending the tone of his emails as quite good for him.

It is so fucking DIFFICULT.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Wed 28-Aug-13 20:37:53

Personally, I wouldn't write off 'relate' quite so harshly. Personally didn't find them useful but I would suggest you go along and find out for yourself. If it works, great. If not, don't go back

Fireplaces Wed 28-Aug-13 20:38:37

Should have read, "Now I am defending the tone of his emails as being quite good,for him."

ShipwreckedAndComatose Wed 28-Aug-13 20:40:19

I am not doing very well at all this, am I?

Oh my godness, you have no idea just how brilliantly you are doing!!

We've been where you are and know just exactly what you are going through.

Vivacia Wed 28-Aug-13 20:40:28

The website describes them as "trained professionals".

Scarletohello Wed 28-Aug-13 20:42:12

I think people are being unfair about Relate, I went there for 3 months this year and my counsellor was supportive, experienced and insightful. However, as with anything, it may depend on the person you get as to helpful you find it.

I would like to reiterate the advice you have been given. Don't give in to demands. The only thing that motivates cheaters is loss. He has lost the right to come and go as he pleases and to ask if he can still use the washing machine is a sign that he hasn't yet realised what he has lost and that, since HE broke the contract of trust between you, that he no longer has the rights and privileges he once had.

Keep setting the boundaries with him. It's the only way for him to come to his senses ( and for you to decide if you really want him back...)

Vivacia Wed 28-Aug-13 20:42:21

It is so fucking DIFFICULT.

Absolutely. To be honest though, his request for you to sort out his dirty underwear would keep me angry for a fair few days alone.

JoinYourPlayfellows Wed 28-Aug-13 20:43:19

The tone of his e-mails is good because it suits him for you to think well of him now.

But despite the contrite TONE, that e-mail he sent you was really about putting you in your place.

Strip out the bullshit about being sorry and you're left with:

Dear Hurt Wife,

Despite the pain I have caused you, you need to be in no doubt at all that I still conceive of you primarily as my maid.

I work hard and earn the money, and while I indulge this little strop of yours about my mistress, I still expect you to service me domestically.

Please also note that I will make sure our children hate you if you don't come around and let me back home very quickly.

Yours in agreement that I am the boss around here,

Unfaithful Husband

Vivacia Wed 28-Aug-13 20:43:22

Does anyone else get the impression that he thinks a week in the doghouse and it's all back to normal?

comingintomyown Wed 28-Aug-13 20:44:08

Really ???

The washing thing. I can honestly say in the 3 years I have spent on Relationships I consider that to be the most offensive thing a DH has done in his position. I imagine as only a day or so ago you were doing his laundry this doesnt seem so monumentally bad to you but to me ? I've said it.

I am so so sorry you are going through this I remember my experiences along these lines as the worst in my life

MadAboutHotChoc Wed 28-Aug-13 20:51:24

I am still gobsmacked - he has massively fucked up by betraying you, his wife and the mother of his DC in the worse possible way by shagging a 23 years old and he still expects YOU to wash his bloody skiddy pants?

There is nothing contrite about this.

Remember its ACTIONS not words that you need to be looking at for signs of true remorse.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Wed 28-Aug-13 20:51:43

Yes,Vivacia...I don't think he gets how serious this is at all.

JoinYourPlayfellows Wed 28-Aug-13 20:53:19

He gets how serious it is.

He's the boss. He will decide how serious it is and respond accordingly.

For now he's prepared to play the contrite husband game.

But I reckon the OP has at most another week of him continuing to play it this way.

mumonline65 Wed 28-Aug-13 20:55:16

Fireplaces you are amazing - you really are.

I have been where you are too but I was a complete and utter doormat. We went to counselling (when we shouldn't have) The lady was BACP registered (and very expensive) and my cheating XH promptly told her how awful our marriage was blah blah. I disagreed, as that was not my experience. She then said "if one partner in the marriage says it wasn't good - it wasn't good" I will never ever forget what she said. XH's smugness was nauseating and I felt so small.

Well 4 years later I am so happy. I love being single and my children are very happy too.

You are doing the right thing. He has to understand the enormity of what he has done.

Stay strong

Fireplaces Wed 28-Aug-13 20:55:27

I'm sorry, I can't get angry again tonight.I have literally run out of anger energy today.

But I have taken on board that it is a 100% agreement from you all that the laundry request is competely unacceptable.

And I have read with interest the several comments about him thinking he's just got to stay away for a coupleof weeks and then I will 'come round'. I think that's exactly what he thinks about this. He says how desperately sorry he is and how he wants to make it right, but I can imagine that if I took him back, it would only be a few weeks before he thought he had 'sorted it all out' and that I "should be ok by now". I can even clearly imagine him saying "I said I'm sorry didn't I? What more do you want?".

Hmmmmm.Food for thought.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Wed 28-Aug-13 20:58:18

That's exactly how I read him, Fire.

MadAboutHotChoc Wed 28-Aug-13 20:58:34

Yes this is why its crucial to look at his actions - these tell you what you need to know. Its far too easy to say pretty words - and remember that sorry is a verb.

ImpulsePineapple Wed 28-Aug-13 20:58:40

It is fucking difficult. What you are going through now is like the most painful bereavement, don't underestimate it.

With that in mind YOU ARE DOING BLOODY AMAZING. You really are. I did a little airpunch at your laundrette response. Well done.

You will keep this ridiculous request for you to wash his dirty pants (FFS, no words...) in mind, while you go through all the other stuff. In a year, you will drink wine with a good friend and tell her about it and you will convulse with laughter and be not able to breathe, at his sheer fucking cheek, and you will feel better.

I know when people told me I was 'so strong' I had no idea how to respond, I didn't feel strong, but there was not the option of lying down in the road and 'not coping'. Looking back I was strong, but in it I felt like a wreck. I wish I had had mumsnet, take all of your strength from these lovely ladies that can see through his 'quite good for him' emails, which are frankly, rubbish - how DARE he think the children will be told YOU sent him away? HOW FUCKING DARE HE?

Keep posting, it will validate what you think and help you form the words to resist the nonsense that this man will feed you over the coming weeks.

I would like to offer you an unmumsnetty hug should you like one x

onefewernow Wed 28-Aug-13 21:01:48

Yes he clearly thinks a week in the doghouse will ensure service resumes.

Telling too that whilst you are unable to eat or sleep, and caring for kids, he is having an underpants crisis.

My Relate counsellor is stunningly good, and highly experienced. They do vary, and I happen to know that their level of qualification varies too, so just ask when booking.

mrscraig Wed 28-Aug-13 21:01:53

Just wanted to say, you are doing so brilliantly. I truly understand the pain you are in, the term 'heart break' actually means something now doesn't it?
I think it is so hard to reconcile the person you thought your husband was to the person who is capable of such utter betrayal.
Having recently been in your shoes (and yet to step out of them) I would say just take your time. I was so desperate not to lose my family I tried to rush back to a semblance of normality. I am now in the situation where I've uncovered more lies and feel humiliated and devastated all over again.
Keep in control and don't be scared of the confrontation - you sound like a wonderful person and are stronger than you think.
Wishing you lots of love xx

skyeskyeskye Wed 28-Aug-13 21:02:01

there is no way that the children should be told that he has been sent away, because you will be made to look like the bad person and can not have that put upon them by him. you could tell them that he is working away at the moment but will see them at the weekend.

when he collects them, have everything ready at the door and dont let him in and when he returns them dont let him in either. The children need to be kept away from all bad feelings and he should understand that they are the priority and your only concern at the moment.

If he turns up with a bag of washing, just give it back to him.

Vivacia Wed 28-Aug-13 21:02:01

(Sorry is a verb? What does that mean?).

Wellwobbly Wed 28-Aug-13 21:03:04

Well, I went to one session of Relate and poured out my tale of woe as to how my dearly loved husband had told me he didn't love me any more and was being cold and aloof to the point of cruelty.

She clocked him fairly well, and talked to me about how emotionally unavailable people kept people at arms length, chose workaholic (like the City, shift work) jobs, and hobbies to help facilitate this, lived behind unbreachable walls. So she was helpful.

But the real reason? HE WAS FUCKING SOMEONE and was infatuated with her and this was behind his strange disrespectful behaviour. And really, that was the reality I needed to get, in order to deal with my suddenly odd and strange life. So I am 50/50.
If she knew, she should have gently pointed me in the direction of thinking about it. If she didn't know, that rather supports the lack of training point. Look how quickly us jaded Mumsnetters sniff out cheating and have we ever been wrong? It is obvious, when you know the signs, and IMO counsellors should know the signs.

Here is someone else's experience: 'What have other people's experience been of RELATE? In the UK, that is always our first port of call for MC, they are the established experts.

I found them absolutely useless when it came to dealing with infidelity, it was dismissed and the focus was all on what was wrong with the marriage. That is all well and good, but when you have been side swiped and are reeling, you aren't ready for that.

All you can think about is the betrayal and hurt. That was dismissed as insignificant ( which made me feel insignificant) and I had to sit through hours of him telling me all the things I had done wrong, it was abusive and traumatic, it just compounded my trauma and I was completely unable to deal with it. All I did was apologise for my shortcomings, he never did and the counsellor never called him on it, not once.

I found RELATE a truly horrible and abusive experience. What a waste of money! Anyone agree? Or maybe have a different POV?

Have to say I have found many people who agree with me since, everyone I know who goes to RELATE ends up divorced. Kind of speaks for itself doesn't it?

I eventually found an independent counsellor who specialised in infidelity, needless to say WS only went once. Too uncomfortable for him, refused to go again, said he felt judged. It helped me.

RELATE gives them excuses, would not recommend them to anyone.'

Vivacia Wed 28-Aug-13 21:04:51

If he turns up with a bag of washing, just give it back to him.

I just pictured myself accepting the bag on the doorstep with a "thank you" and then swapping it for the kids a couple of hours later, unopened.

ImpulsePineapple Wed 28-Aug-13 21:05:33

Oh crikey, yes, I meant to add, don't let him in the house. If you are unsure how this will work, ask, please. But he does NOT get to come in. This is really important for your sanity, and for you feeling in control.

You have asked for time and sanctuary and you deserve it. Him tramping in with his big man feet wil not help you one bit, and there is no need for it.

skyeskyeskye Wed 28-Aug-13 21:06:40

or better still give him all of your washing to do, see how he likes that grin

Fireplaces Wed 28-Aug-13 21:07:19

Thank you Impulse. I don't feel strong at all, no. But there is no option of not coping, is there? I do find that posting on here is immensely helpful in so many different ways. That email you guys helped me to construct rocked.

I am reading a book called "Not just friends" which I am finding very interesting. It talks a lot about changing emotions etc. At the moment I guess I am actually missing my DH and even feeling sorry for him. The 'me' of last night would want to give the 'me' of tonight agood kick up the arse. But I guess this is all part of it, the changing pendulum of moods, sometimes within one day.

Vivacia Wed 28-Aug-13 21:09:54

I know it's a terrible cliché, but it really is a roller-coaster. I repeat what I said this morning, just take care of yourself.

And don't cancel your Relate appointment. Give it a try. Don't cut off any source of support.

Fireplaces Wed 28-Aug-13 21:10:26

Impulse "*Oh crikey, yes, I meant to add, don't let him in the house. If you are unsure how this will work, ask, please"*

How will this work?! I have told him already, (you have seen the email), but his name is also on the deeds.

Fireplaces Wed 28-Aug-13 21:12:53

Wobbly and Vivacia. Two opposing points of view there.I have paid for it already so will go with an open mind.To be honest, it would help me a great deal just to cry and shout etc there, if that's what happens.
If I do not find it helpful, I will take up your suggestion of a private psychotherapist Wobbly. I feel I need someone trained to slowly take me through all of this.

ImpulsePineapple Wed 28-Aug-13 21:13:08

Do you feel guilty about posting about him too? And bad that people think he's a total shit? Like you are betraying him? I felt like that every time I told someone we had split. That is because you are a loyal person, who believed in your marriage vows.

He wasn't so loyal while boffing the 23 year old though was he?

Have no guilt, say what you need to say. You are missing the man you thought you had, not the lying cheating bastard that you did have. Sorry lovely. Get angry again as soon as you can.

JoinYourPlayfellows Wed 28-Aug-13 21:13:29

"How will this work?! I have told him already, (you have seen the email), but his name is also on the deeds."

Play along with his fake contrition.

Tell him that you can't cope with him being in the house right now and if he is truly sorry he will respect that.

ImpulsePineapple Wed 28-Aug-13 21:16:26

From experience, you keep an eye out at the window, when you see him coming you get the kids shoes on, open the door, do a big 'Daddy is here!', quick kisses, they run out, shut the door.

I'm not saying that's easy. But it's necessary.

Wellwobbly Wed 28-Aug-13 21:18:41

I thought the point about Relate and divorce was a bit unfair, as that is not the fault of the counsellor no matter how well trained, but rather the selfish entitlement of the betrayer, who think that they are so splendidly marvellous that a few words ought to do it and wifey should just pipe down, get over it, STFU and get back in the kitchen.

The wife then finds out to her anguish how selfish the person she thought she had a relationship really is, how little he understands and cares for her really, and in 75% of marriages touched by infidelity, it ends.

Well, that is how it has panned out for the Wobblys any way sad.

MadAboutHotChoc Wed 28-Aug-13 21:20:34

(vivacia - sorry is about taking full responsibility, making amends, taking remedial action, showing respect etc).

OP - you will feel angry again soon as well as many other emotions, such an exhausting and horrible rollercoaster ride sad be kind to yourself x

Vivacia Wed 28-Aug-13 21:21:56

(I just got stuck thinking, "Sorry isn't a verb, it's an adjective". I get what you mean now).

MadAboutHotChoc Wed 28-Aug-13 21:25:29

(I knew what you mean! not grammatically correct but its something I tell the kids when they say sorry without meaning it)

MadAboutHotChoc Wed 28-Aug-13 21:25:42

*meant

Fireplaces Wed 28-Aug-13 21:31:05

Impulse "Do you feel guilty about posting about him too? And bad that people think he's a total shit? Like you are betraying him? I felt like that every time I told someone we had split. That is because you are a loyal person, who believed in your marriage vows. "

Yes, that is spot on, all of that.

He wasn't so loyal while boffing the 23 year old though was he?

I might have to print that out and stick it on the fridge. So true.

ChasedByBees Wed 28-Aug-13 21:41:27

Sorry I know you've ran out of anger and things have moved on but shock at him asking you to wash his underwear. The ducking nerve of him.

Inertia Wed 28-Aug-13 21:44:22

Delurking to say how amazingly strong you are fireplaces. And that you should be getting angry at your husband's emails , because they are astonishingly self- centred and dismissive of your feelings. This man has ripped your marriage and family apart, and he wants to frame it as your fault into the eyes of the children and put you back on laundry duty.

To echo previous posters, the only reasonable answers to his questions are 1. He can do them at his mistress's house or go to the laundrette and 2. The children are told an age appropriate version of the truth.

Wobbly, my brothers experience of relate was just like yours, they'd got small children and his wife had an affair with an old flame she went looking for on Facebook. When bro found out she begged forgiveness and they went to relate. Once a week for 9 months. It's was ALL bros fault. One of the big things was she kept on about how SHE was finding it difficult to rebuild the relationship because he was having trouble trusting her! So he was given advice to work on that. Lots of other issues too about housework (she didn't work but the counsellor told him he had to do half the housework after a long shift) and many other things, ALL of which were 'counselled in the wifes favour and basically turning my lovely outgoing confident brother into a far greater wreck than her affair had left him. All the emphasis was on what was wrong with the marriage to 'make' her look elsewhere.

And you know what, after 9 months of him thinking he was going mad, it turned out that she had never stopped seeing other men. She went for the counselling because she wanted to keep him in his place (funding her lifestyle) whilst still doing what she wanted.

So myself I would agree with you that they only look at what the guilty party perceived to be wrong with the marriage. Not at any form of entitled, narcissistic, arrogant personality that would carry on manipulating the counsellor and their spouse.

onefewernow Wed 28-Aug-13 23:11:34

Fliberty, that has not been my experience as the betrayed wife at all. He has had a really tough time with them.

One point made by another poster- if you are so anxious for the pain and stress to end that you let him back in quickly and help him smooth it over too quickly you would make a regrettable mistake.

I did this, and it " worked " for a while, but I ended angry and feeling I never had the full truth and that he had not changed that much, after the "honeymoon " period. We ended up back at Relate, and still go. This is 22 months on, and I think the whole issue has been drawn out by me not being tough enough to start with.

Triedbutfailed Wed 28-Aug-13 23:28:43

Wellwobbly - I had exactly the same experience with relate, it was awful. After H had cheated I was told I mustn't make him feel guilty and that I had to take as much of the blame, despite the fact that I had just had a baby and was seriously sleep deprived.

One of them said I hadn't been paying H enough attention (sexually) despite H telling him we had been having sex regularly right up until the day before the birth! H told them it was just his selfish lifestyle that drove him to cheat, despite the fact we had everything he wanted in a relationship - even he was shocked at the councellors attitudes...we tried 3 different ones and each time we left H apologised for what THEY put me through as well as everything he had done, as he could see that the marriage guidance councellors were breaking me further with every session.

They destroyed my confidence almost as much as my husband did. I needed months of one on one counselling with a private psychotherapist to get over everything, and H had much better counselling on his own privately too, and sorted a lot of the personal problems he had that led him to cheat.

Triedbutfailed Wed 28-Aug-13 23:55:11

Fireplaces - I have just read the thread backwards (hence starting with the response to Wellwobbly), and I am astounded by how strong you are. I wish I were half the person you are.

Bogeyface Thu 29-Aug-13 00:32:41

But I reckon the OP has at most another week of him continuing to play it this way.

Yes yes yes. He will soon realise that you are not just going to be so grateful that he wants to stay with you (google Chumplady "pick me") that he will get angry. He will yell, shout, blame you, blame her, blame his job his parents, your child..........

Thats when you will see the real him. Be prepared.

Bogeyface Thu 29-Aug-13 00:34:12

Sorry isnt a verb. Sorry.

Wellwobbly Thu 29-Aug-13 07:01:49

"Fireplaces - I have just read the thread backwards (hence starting with the response to Wellwobbly), and I am astounded by how strong you are. I wish I were half the person you are."

HEAR, HEAR. You are truly amazing and paradoxically have the best chance of turning a man's outlook into humble respect.

"I think the whole issue has been drawn out by me not being tough enough to start with."

This has been my experience as well. We are now going through a divorce neither of us wants, because of it. sad

lordleofric Thu 29-Aug-13 08:24:35

You really don't want your DC to be told that you sent him away because he did something wrong. That could play on their minds, i.e. if I'm naughty, will mummy send ME away?

Inertia Thu 29-Aug-13 08:46:19

Lordleo makes a very good point - it could be worth reinforcing to the children that the thing Daddy did wrong was something only adults do, or people who are married. Something I' ve seen on another thread is that the children were told that Daddy had a girlfriend who he went to stay with and that isn't allowed when you are married - tells the children what happened without any of this crap about mummy sending him away

balia Thu 29-Aug-13 08:58:58

Morning Fireplaces - hope you slept better.

mistlethrush Thu 29-Aug-13 09:22:19

Re relate, be prepared to get up and walk out the moment any of this seems to be made out to be your fault. It isn't. If things weren't 100% right in your marriage, and you had discussed it like married adults, you perhaps might have been able to work together to make things better. But instead he chose to throw his vows out of the window and have an affair behind your back. That is ENTIRELY HIS DOING and is not your fault.

In terms of the house, you are the children's main carer - they need a secure home to stay in, don't worry that his name is on the deeds.

mummytime Thu 29-Aug-13 10:07:34

Mistlethrush - the advice about relate could be true of any new counsellor. Counsellors of all types are variable, some may or may not gel or be what you need. Others I have seen "outside" work and have wondered how they do their job. Others might have views you disagree with, but you can work with (but maybe not for such a personal issue). A few very good ones, might see a personality clash or similar and gently tell you that they think you'd be better with a colleague/someone else.
And so on.

CeliaFate Thu 29-Aug-13 10:17:42

Fireplaces you may want to consider contacting an estate agent to get a valuation on your house. You can then send him an email with this detail, including what your solicitor has said about splitting assets.
This will have a 2 fold effect I think. One, it shows you're in control and two it tells him that this is permanent and he's not going to come back home in a couple of weeks.
As for his request for you to wash his dirty pants, that is a metaphor for the reasons for ending your marriage to this berk.

LittlePeaPod Thu 29-Aug-13 10:22:07

Fireplaces. Good morning and I hope you got a better nights sleep. Just read about the laundry and what to tell the kids update. Beyond words but you did the right thing with regards your response. I think it's a great idea you are going to Relate. I understand the Relate debate because of different people's experiences but at the moment you have to do what's right for you. I am sure you will look at alternatives if Relate is not right for you. Sending you hugs and hand holding. flowers

ofmiceandmen Thu 29-Aug-13 10:47:22

Good morning Fireplaces I once sent this to my DM.

Just had to share Maya Angelou

hope it helps

Fireplaces Thu 29-Aug-13 15:12:16

Hello,
An update. I actually got 8 hours sleep, thanks to Nytol, and feel a whole lot better as a result.

I am much more positive today. So far I have:

1) Got someone to come and fix a bolt to the inside of the back door. There have been some horrid burglaries around here of late and is keeping me awake at night knowing that's the weak point of the house security, and I am now here without my DH.

2) Been to the gym and got some exercise. Listened to a motivating song and felt likepunching my DH.

3) Told a RL friend who was very nice. And laughed (and was angry) at his laundry request and said he had some real front.

4) My sister in law called to make arrangements to meet up this weekend. (My DH and her DH are brothers). Well I started to lie, and then thought 'sod it, I am sick of all these lies and I cannot do it' so I told her the truth about why we can't all come over this weekend.

We had a long conversation. She is furious with my DH, really spitting mad. She was upset too. She said all the right things and said her DH will be boxing the ears of my DH, and she would wring his neck! While I know that this might change (blood thicker than water etc) in the future, it was good to hear that they (at the moment!) are entirely in agreement with me that he has been a complete shit and is now reaping the consequences.

She was furious at the laundry request, and the "Mummy has sent me away" comment too.

5) Told my two DC that "Daddy has done something very naughty and unkind to Mummy and she is very very sad. Daddy and Mummy have had a big argument. So Daddy is not going to live here at the moment."

They asked "was it the argument in the car?" and "when will he come back?" ("I don't know"I said)....and that was it. They moved on. I asked them if they had any questions but they said no and seem fine with it at the moment.

I have my anger back again today. I can now see why you were all so het up about the laundry request and the "Mummy has Sent him away" comment. grin

Well done, you should be proud of yourself.

Well you have had a productive day.
Well done on all points.
Stay angry and stay strong.
I'm sure you are inspiring many on here right now!

ChasedByBees Thu 29-Aug-13 16:09:46

Great! Sounds like a very good day. thanks

CeliaFate Thu 29-Aug-13 16:11:33

You are doing brilliantly. wine

onefewernow Thu 29-Aug-13 16:15:50

Well done, on all fronts.

It will take him a while to realise that you will not be a pushover on this. They usually imagine that it will blow over if they act sorry. They can turn quite unpleasant if they are proven wrong.

I imagine he will have the nerve to criticise you for telling your SIL. But you are entirely at liberty to tell who you want; they just hate it as it shows them in such a poor light, and they prefer to keep it quiet.

Actually the books I read on infidelity said exposing it is helpful. There have been enough lies told, you don't have to join in.

Fireplaces you rock!!!! Inspirational grin

Good for you telling SIL, his family need to know. Just be prepared for the 'oh they all do it...' comment. They may all do it, but that doesn't make it acceptable.

If you like the gym, sign up for boxercise. Great therapy and toned arms. What's not to like.

Chibbs Thu 29-Aug-13 16:35:25

well done you are doing fab

evelynj Thu 29-Aug-13 16:40:39

Delurking to say You go girl!

You're doing great & whatever happens with him, it will help you to keep up with exercise & meeting people, especially telling RL folk the truth improves your empowerment & sends the message to him of how strong you are even if you don't feel it at. The moment.

You are doing great and as he has ruined everything, he has no right to ask you for anything. You do not need to treat him with kindness. You do not owe him anything at this point & should spend some time thinking about what you might want & also how this experience may have changed you as a person, (whilst you may have been happy to be somewhat subservient previously, he has damaged the relationship so that you will be 2different people if there is another relationship to start with him)

He can wait months or years until you are ready for any progress if he really loves you and is not just after an easy nuclear family.

You are doing brilliantly. So glad you familiarised him with the existence of launderettes grin
Also good for you in telling DC. That's one less weapon the skid meister has to beat you with.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Thu 29-Aug-13 17:35:20

Wow, awesome day!! Well done, these are all good things

ghostmummy Thu 29-Aug-13 18:09:06

Let him have the kids. For the whole weekend! If I were the other woman that would be the end!!!

Try very hard to have counseling and make it work, the grass isn't greener and if you can forgive him and make it work the in the end you will be stronger as a. Couple.

I posted something the other day on here about marriage and making it work, from someone who didn't make it work. Because I was angry I wish I had tried. I'm very happy now but life is. Complicated. Enough without new partners ,

Good luck

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Thu 29-Aug-13 18:39:11

Well done, what a lot you have achieved today! Good on you for being honest with your SIL - that's an important step forward.

Also, well done for telling the DC. Not easy AT ALL. However, if I were you, I'd talk to them again, because the way you have left it he can manipulate into making it all about you being cross and sending him away. Secondly because they might worry that if they make you cross they will have to go away. I would labour the point that Daddy has done something that adults aren't allowed to do when they are married, that Daddy hasn't gone away because you made him, but because it was very very wrong and adults have to go to live somewhere else when they do that. But not children, never ever children.

flowers for you Fire, you've done brilliantly!

the skid meister grin

Wellwobbly Thu 29-Aug-13 20:05:30

Ghost mummy those are good points, and things I am quailing about tbh.

But there comes a time when your own self-respect has to say 'enough'. I will pray hugely hold thumbs that Mr Fire gets his head out of his arse, and decides to become a better human being.

Mr Wobbly talked the talk (not for long) but didn't walk the walk. And this is the trouble: someone who cheats and is living a double life, hasn't got much humility in the first place, have they?

It is hard..

balia Thu 29-Aug-13 20:58:16

Chipping that's a fantastic post, excellent advice.

Fireplaces do you know where he is staying?

Fireplaces Thu 29-Aug-13 21:48:37

Chipping Thank you for your advice about telling the children. I did exactly what you suggested tonight. They were fine about it.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Thu 29-Aug-13 21:57:44

Fire - that's good, I'm glad they are 'OK' at this stage - though they usually ponder on these things and come out with the strangest questions when you least expect it - and usually least need it grin

I hope you can sleep again tonight, if definitely makes a huge difference.

ImpulsePineapple Thu 29-Aug-13 22:16:30

You are doing so brilliantly fire I hope you can take some time to feel proud of yourself, and accept the kindness that others will offer you, you will likely hit a wall of emotional exhaustion soon, but if you are prepared for it, you'll cope.

Telling the children is the hardest thing, it really is, and you'll probably have more questions and explaining to do as they process it, just go with what they need.

Up thread it was mentioned that you are in the calm bit with the Laundry King at the moment. He still thinks he'll be waltzing back in next week. When that doesn't happen, be prepared for the next part of the script, this will likely be that It's All Your Fault. Obviously it's not. Don't listen to a word of it. But brace yourself.

You really could not be handling this horrible time better x

Fireplaces Thu 29-Aug-13 23:12:08

impulse I am bracing myself thanks to the warnings on here. Luckily I have about five emails from him saying its his fault. I shall soon be asking you guys to remind me of their existence, no doubt!

Today it appears from his email (!) that he is in a suicidal mood; "I know it is entirely my own fault... I will genuinely spend the rest of my days regretting my actions. The small things like remembering going to the cinema together are what is keeping me going and I just hope that we can be a family again."

Thoughts, anyone? Anyone care to enlighten me if this is part of a generally-followed pattern?

mummytime Thu 29-Aug-13 23:19:09

Suicidal does appear to be part of the script. Just ignore it.
If it gets hard get a friend to monitor the emails and filter out anything but essential information (eg. Arrangement top pick up children).

Imonlydreaming Thu 29-Aug-13 23:24:26

I've come over to your thread from my own Fireplaces to say I'm sorry that you are also going through such an awful time.
Sending thankswine and vibes to stay strong.

AnyFucker Thu 29-Aug-13 23:29:34

Suicide threats are in the script

Nothing else is working so he is employing the Big Guns

he wouldn't be nearly considerate enough to actually do it

if he makes any actual threats to top himself, send an ambulance/the police around there. They will put the self-pitying nobber in his place (and likely charge him for wasting their time)

saffronwblue Thu 29-Aug-13 23:31:23

Those memories of going to the cinema together conveniently faded when he was pursuing Miss 23, didn't they?

You are so strong fire.

balia Fri 30-Aug-13 00:08:38

In my experience, suicidal people rarely worry about having enough clean keks for the following week.

Obviously ignore, but if you were a bitch like me you could go with;

"I am glad you have happy memories to sustain you. All mine are tainted by the discovery that the man I shared them with was not my faithful life partner, but a cliched middle-aged sad act who couldn't keep his executive wand in his pants".

AnyFucker Fri 30-Aug-13 00:27:09

Yes, it's certainly a large leap between "I am running out of undies, could you wash me some" to "I reminisce about years-old visits to the cinema to keep these silly old bones alive"

What utter hogwash

ImpulsePineapple Fri 30-Aug-13 00:45:27

In my experience, suicidal people rarely worry about having enough clean keks for the following week.
Well this.

And yes, the classic suicide threats... Nothing new, and of course the selfish fool doesn't mean it. Ignore ignore.

Remember, if you hadn't discovered his lies and confronted him... He would be carrying on his affair quite happily. Thinking he could have his cake and eat it. As it is, he's been forced to look down and see his cake has gone, and is having a toddler tantrum about it. STAY STRONG. Try not to engage or respond.

UptheChimney Fri 30-Aug-13 03:19:38

But I watched my DMum go from a alpha wonder woman to a shadow of herself after my Fathers affair(s)

De-lurking because miceandmen's post struck a chord, and because you are being so so strong, fireplaces

My father had affairs throughout my parents' marriage. The first one I knew about, but not the first one IYSWIM, was when I was 16. My mother took him back, and my god, we also had the OW staying in our granny flat for a week or do. My mother was a SAHM, and I'm one of 6 children.

They tried all sorts of things. Counselling, clairvoyance, going on a long trip, and so on and on and on. They divorced when i was 33, around about the time my DH became very ill (oh a great year. not) It left my mother bitter, and I don't have an awful lot of time for my father.

I think my mother put up with it, because my father (a rich man) would have been terrible about the money -- this was the 1970s, and she felt she needed to keep the family together while we were growing up. But it really wasn't a good model of marriage, particularly for us daughters.

I consider myself incredibly lucky that I managed to develop a secure marriage myself -- for a long time that seemed to be more than I felt I "deserved" deep down, as the main model I had was of female martyrdom and submission, and male selfishness and emotional distance.

So I find myself very moved by stories here of women who did what my mother couldn't do until she was in her late 50s. And I find myself imagining what it must have been like for my mother. And sometimes in my darker moments i wonder why men are such utter selfish emotional cripples. I know most men are not, but my childhood experiences left a mark.

So, fireplaces IMHO you are doing a powerful thing for your children. Although I know it won't feel like that for a long time. Strength to you.

Newjobthankgod Fri 30-Aug-13 03:43:14

Why can't the 23 year old OW do his laundry for him? He is sorry he got caught, that is all unfortunately.

PAsSweetOrangeLurve Fri 30-Aug-13 04:59:51

Ignore, ignore and ignore. Your best weapon is silence as it will absolutely crucify him to not get a reaction from you.

The affair was about attention and he's still trying to get that attention, to be the centre of everything. All of these requests - do my laundry, Mummy sent me away, I can only keep going when I think about how things were, I'm sorry... Notice how each and every single statement is about HIM. It's all about him. Not you and not the kids - quite telling don't you think?

Your marriage only stands a chance of recovery when your H is prepared to stand up and genuinely accept that he has acted like a selfish prick, that he needs to change his behaviour permanently. At the moment while he is still in the mindset that a couple of weeks of 'mea culpa' will do the trick, it is doomed to fail.

The reason why so many men get away with this shit and their half-baked, meaningless apologies, is because their partners are so shell-shocked and devastated that the prospect of saving the relationship becomes a lifeline. But after the shock wears off and when the selfish tosser gets fed up with his sackcloth and ashes routine and life returns to normal, the relationship breaks down anyway. The partner - rightly so - still feels betrayed and angry but instead of being able to work through it with a supportive and genuinely contrite husband, is instead faced with someone who thinks they are still making a big fuss over something that's in the past. At which point the partner realises that their husband is a selfish arse and boots him out.

mistlethrush Fri 30-Aug-13 05:45:03

Stay strong, and have another day of doing things for yourself.

gamerchick Fri 30-Aug-13 05:48:31

Has he done the angry 'well fuck you then' thing yet? The one where they do the having a ball single life thing while you are left holding the kids? It's just another ploy to get inside your head.

I'm so sorry this has happened.. I really hope you find some peace soon.

Fireplaces Fri 30-Aug-13 05:52:51

Thank you for your lovely replies again.
You have very perceptive views in my DH. It is difficult to have that perception when I am do close to the situation, and so upset.

balia; "In my experience, suicidal people rarely worry about having enough clean keks for the following week."

This has raised a smile from me for the second time this week smile

Vivacia Fri 30-Aug-13 06:00:16

It sounds as though he's been emailing every day? Are you wanting no contact, or are you happy to have conversations this way?

ChasedByBees Fri 30-Aug-13 07:42:13

Your marriage has been bad for some time now (about the same time as your affair). He hadn't been treating you well during that time. Just wondering whether those sustaining cinema trips happened during that time or if he was too busy treating you like shit?

Suicidal!! My bloody foot.

Ask him why he wasn't thinking about those cinema visits when he was unzipping his flies.

Fireplaces Fri 30-Aug-13 09:35:12

And I could see him (sitting other end of the two children by my choice) texting (her???) during that cinema trip.

Like he was also doing many times at the restaurant table during our recent family holiday, and when waiting for the bags to come through at the airport ("just landed, waiting for bags, can't wait to see you tomorrow" - I mean those "just landed am safe" texts are supposed to be for spouses when he's coming back from foreign business trips, not for a 23 year old tart when he's WITH HIS WIFE AND FAMILY coming back from holiday. Bastard)

CeliaFate Fri 30-Aug-13 10:15:31

He's rewriting history to suit himself. He's going through the stages of guilt, thinking he'll be back home in a few weeks time.

As a pp said, once he realises he's not getting anywhere, look out for the angry stage and tales of "It's not all my fault, you were to blame as well" type emails.

If I was you I'd print out this thread and remind myself of what a tosser he is when you're feeling low and thinking about having him back. He doesn't deserve you. You certainly deserve someone better than him.

AnyFucker Fri 30-Aug-13 11:10:22

Have a look here

ShipwreckedAndComatose Fri 30-Aug-13 11:27:29

Yup... I've had the old suicide card too. he's wallowing in self pity and it's all of his own making.
As it goes, I had the anger stage and the denial stage (I never had an affair because I told you about it so its not secret anymore and not an affair hmm.. And I never had an affair..I made it all up so you would hate me as much as I hate myself. I have depression and you need to take me back to make me well again hmm)

Yes....where exactly is he staying??

balia Fri 30-Aug-13 11:55:38

Ooh good, the anger is back. Glad I made you smile.

Hope you have a positive day (as much as that is possible) with the focus firmly on yourself and the DC's. Try to limit the headspace you give old saddo and his motives/excuses.

And without meaning to sound flippant...WTF is it with the cinema being his fond memory of choice? In the dark, looking at action happening somewhere else and no talking...oh I see.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Fri 30-Aug-13 12:08:35

I would just reply (because I wouldn't be able to stop myself)

'Once again - it's a shame you didn't think of that before you broke our family apart by fucking Little Miss 23 isn't it. Neither the cinema trip nor our holiday hold good memories for me as you clearly wished you were with her at the time if all the texting is anything to go by. You have your wish - do as you please because you have driven the final nail into the coffin and my solicitor will be in touch'

Zoe900 Fri 30-Aug-13 12:43:33

Just read the 14 pages and fireplaces your emails having been great, the perfect line between firm and non-confrontational. It's a hard line to strike.

If I'd read in a book that a cheating character had asked his wife to do his laundry I'd think "no! that's ridiculous, nobody could be that dense!".

I agree with posters who advise engaging as little as possible as all it does is feed their entitlement that they're the boss, they're in charge, and that you need their approval to move on, take a stand, draw a line etc... my x was a city type too. I left him and I foolishly wasted time getting drawn into all his email negotiations, all designed to bring me back to heel. I had left him before and I'd gone back because he was sorry blah blah but he then later referred to the first time I left him as that "tin pot parade". I hope you feel ok. Your emails are so calm. Well done.

Zoe900 Fri 30-Aug-13 12:46:37

Chipping, it makes sense to 'drop the rope' if you are familiar with that expression and that idea. If you keep "tugging back" with a smart reply they think that the negotiation is still on going, all it really does is perpetuate their belief that you can NOT draw a line in the sand and that you DO need their approval to stay/leave whatever.

Hissy said it upthread. silence really is the one tactic that slightly penetrates these guys' forcefields of entitlement.

DrinkFeckArseGirls Fri 30-Aug-13 13:11:34

Don't know how he can feel suicidal thinking if losing you/ DC, when he quite happily was planning on life with OW. hmm

Zoe900 Fri 30-Aug-13 13:18:53

yeh, that is just a device to make you feel more tuned into his pain than your own.

Fireplaces Fri 30-Aug-13 16:00:11

Hello
Having a really bad day today. I have been awake since 4am, tossing and turning, worrying and stressing. I am so bloody tired I can barely think.I tried to get myself out to the local shops but I was a liability on the roads and managed to try to reverse my car through the whoppin' great wheelie bin that was behind it.

I kept looking at people in the supermarket and wondering how they could just be laughing like they didn't have a care in the world, whilemy life has crashed around me. And then I suddenly got overwhelmed by all the noise of the place and had to leave. It was a real trauma-type reaction that I had before once when I almost died (overreaction to noise, not being able to bear it).

I agreed that my DH could take the DC this weekend,starting today. They have gone camping. I said he could take the children so that I could have some time to think without the constant interruptions etc (you know what I mean). And also because they need to see their father and I am determined to be reasonable about access.

However, ever since they have gone I feel awful. I want them here with me. They are my rock. I feel (not likely) that my DH might not bring them back and will instead go on the run with them, or hurt them, or not watch their safety properly and they will get hurt. I am very insecure without them around.

And I am so tearful and emotionally about the whole affair thing. It is going round in my head about 'how could he do this to me?' etc. Everytime I see photos on the wall of the DC, I separate them mentally into 'before we were destroyed by this and after we were destroyed by this'. All my memories are tainted.I keep thinking about how I have given all my best years to this man, and he has done this to me. I keep wondering if I deserve it for karma somehow. I feel very very low. Please help.

PedantMarina Fri 30-Aug-13 16:04:29

You still have a lot of really good years left!

mistlethrush Fri 30-Aug-13 16:07:28

Its not karma. Its not your fault.

Is there anyone that you might be able to go and stay with until the children are back? Ideally someone that you could talk to - or sit in silence with.

PedantMarina Fri 30-Aug-13 16:19:42

If you don't have RL support, why not immerse yourself in a box set that STBXH would never enjoy. Have a bit of wine and chocolate and do all those pampering things you don't normally have time to do.

Of course it's probably not going to take your mind completely off not having the DCs around, but treat yourself well every chance you get, and eventually it'll start to sink in.

Virtual hugs from me, though.... {{{{{{{*Fireplaces*}}}}}}}}

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Fri 30-Aug-13 16:34:17

It's shit isn't it sad All of it.

He will bring the children back, you know that, so try not to go there.

It is hard to be without them, but try to use this time to think & recharge your batteries. This is going to take a while to sort you/get through and you need your strength.

Do you have any friends you can really be yourself with? Friends you can just 'be with' and not have to be 'up'?

The first time, when I was very young, I was like that too (couldn't cope with supermarkets etc), I couldn't even be on my own - I was a pathetic mess, my friends were great and took turns in being with me and staying with me. I look back and wonder who that was - because it's SO not me. Not at all. (That break up was just due to us being young and us needing to go our own ways). When my Ex cheated on me and we split up (after dragging it out for over a year and 'trying') I was much much better. I was still upset etc - heartbroken (or so I thought, when my Dad died I actually learnt what properly hearbroken felt like) but I knew I could cope on my own, I knew I'd be fine and I knew I just had to get on with it. But I can still feel that shitty scared horrible feeling when I think back to the first time sad

Do what you can to distract and treat yourself. If you can, go out and have a coffee in a cafe, browse a bookshop etc, if you can't order food online, watch some crap TV & try to do something practical & physical like paint a room or tidy up the garden - tiring yourself out will help you to sleep as well as take your mind off of it.

I wish you weren't going through this.

Jammee Fri 30-Aug-13 16:56:25

Could you book a hotel and take a friend. Somewhere with a spa or something? Get a massage or your nails done. Pamper yourself and go out for a meal, even if you don't feel hungry. Just have some "me" time and don't even think about DH.

All of the thoughts and feelings are things that you probably can't avoid. You will have to go through them at some point but you don't need to deal with it all at once, especially when it is so raw. Take the weekend for yourself and concentrate on you.

CeliaFate Fri 30-Aug-13 17:04:48

Spend the weekend with a friend if possible. Try and get some sleep and eat something; don't make yourself ill.

Order shopping online if you can't face going out and get simple things like soup and ready meals so you don't have to go to any effort.

You are grieving, it will be horrendous on some days and bearable on others. Some days you will feel happier than when you were together.

Don't expect to feel strong all the time.

Keep posting. You will get through this.

Fireplaces Fri 30-Aug-13 17:07:15

OK, I like the idea of pampering myself much more than painting a room or doing the garden (sorry Chippin, don't mean to diss your ideas which I am grateful for you giving...I just don't have the energy for anything physical).

But a beauty treatments or nails would be nice. I will gove it some thought.

I now have a RL friend coming this evening to stay the night. Thanks for that suggestion. She doesn't know what's going to hit her, I will be a sobbing wreck.

AnyFucker Fri 30-Aug-13 17:16:24

Lean on your friend, love

People want to help if you will let them.

balia Fri 30-Aug-13 17:16:26

You're grieving for the life you thought you had and the future you had planned for your children. You can't stop grief, you have to go through it. Be very good to yourself. Yes yes to nails, hair, massage (great for all the stress) facial, pedicure. Get one of those Spa days booked for the next time he has the DC's - they often do lovely healthy lunches, that's a good idea too. I did meditation classes, they were brilliant.

It's not your fault.

comingintomyown Fri 30-Aug-13 17:20:48

Glad to see you have some RL support later Fireplaces.

I am sorry to say this but there is no way around this you have to go through it for now

Boosiehs Fri 30-Aug-13 17:34:28

You are being amazing fireplaces. I hope that you can get through the weekend ok. You rl friends will be there for you.

Vivacia Fri 30-Aug-13 18:00:33

You might want to do something more active by Sunday. If you're still missing the kids you could plan something for them - tidy their bedroom, bake a cake, that kind of thing.

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza Fri 30-Aug-13 18:04:12

Just want to point out that he has shit all over his agreement to leave you alone for one week (let alone the few weeks you asked for) with his constant fucking emails about underwear and cinema trips.

Woolfey Fri 30-Aug-13 18:12:51

I didn't want to read and run.

I think you're being wonderfully strong even if you don't feel you are. I haven't experienced the hell you're going through but I can really identify with the grief aspect of you looking around at everyone else wondering how they can be carrying on when your life has been devastated.

Stay positive and know that people are thinking about you and wishing you all the best. I know you will eventually manage to find some peace even if you don't feel you ever will right at this moment x

Dearest Fire, those feelings you describe are anxiety, and it's not surprising. You have been running on adrenaline, doing everything you need to do, and the absence of your children while they are with him highlights all that has happened and what that selfish dickhead has caused. It is traumatic.

Have you ever tried 7/11 breathing? Tis quite a good one for those fearful, anxious, escalating feelings...if that is too difficult and you are too agitated, then is there some music you could put on REALLY LOUDLY and sing along to? Thinking Handel's Messiah, or Bat out of Hell, or I'm gonna Wash that Man Right out of my Hair.,,til you're exhausted, and then try the 7/11 breathing?

Failing these, having a friend over and ranting could help. Just get through this evening for now flowers wishing you all the best

ImpulsePineapple Fri 30-Aug-13 23:21:22

I know how you feel, I had proper panic attacks at this time, heart racing, feelings of sheer terror, and pretty much paralysed my thinking. It does pass though. You are still in shock. You need to be very kind to yourself. So glad you have a friend coming, that is the best possible distraction.

Suggestions for your weekend:

Definitely get your nails done, and a haircut, make yourself feel pretty buy some new make up too - this sounds a bit woman magazine, but it helps, it really does.

Plan what you are eating for the entire weekend, only buy things you like (my ex hated fish, and I love it so on contact weekends I filled the fridge with smoked salmon, made an indulgent fish pie, went out for sushi etc). find something complicated to cook that will absorb you. Have a fabulous breakfast and buy lovely tea or cofee. Feel indulged.

Radio 4 and 4 extra, for listening to stuff that means you don't have to think while you are pottering around.

Box sets (netflix is best) depending on what you like, but (again) getting absorbed in a series that you can watch for a few hours at a time (I recommend The Walking Dead, Breaking Bad, the original The Killing (Forebrydelsen or something) or something lighter like The Midwives or even documentaries like Blue Planet)

Going to the cinema on your own is actually lovely if you feel you need to get out of the house. The first time I did it I felt a total loser, but once you're in no one notices or cares you are by yourself - this is a top Sunday afternoon tip, as Sunday afternoons are the worst times, I find)

Embrace social media, Facebook and twitter can be very good friends if you are feeling panicky or lonely, just say you are and people rally round and tell you you are awesome and share their experiences, it's distracting if nothing else.

Make your bedroom clean and tidy and sanctuary-like. Clean everything, change the sheets and get rid of any man nonsense, pop some flowers on the bedside table if you can.

None of these may feel right to you, and I can see they all look superficial, but you get the general (sorry, probably very waffly) idea. Don't feel guilty about spending time on you or just wasting time until you get your children back. It really is what other people do and it's ok.

Also post here for whatever you need to as well smile There are quite a few of us willing you on.

As another 'be prepared' thingy, be prepared for your lovely children to be tired and cranky and a bit horrible when they get back, it doesn't mean anything other than they are confused and need you to be as stable as you can be. And you will because you sound like a fab mum.

ImpulsePineapple Fri 30-Aug-13 23:22:14

Christ! I forgot wine. Get wine, as much as you bloody like. Wine is your friend wink

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sat 31-Aug-13 08:20:55

It really is shit. sad

This is what people meant earlier when they said to roll with the emotions as they come. Just keep in mind that these times don't last and another wave of emotion will come over you.

RL friends will help you and, AF is right, they want to help.

Zoe900 Sat 31-Aug-13 09:51:50

hope you feel better after telling your rl friend.

LillyGoLightly Sat 31-Aug-13 11:44:48

Wow - Fireplaces I would just like to echo what all the other posters have said, in that you are being incredibly brave and very strong!!

I can see you are a good woman, your thoughts for the children and their access to their father shows this. You ARE a good woman and a very good Mother. He on the other hand is an ass!!!

Having been through this I know the total devastation you are going through. Its awful because you kind of just want to un-know it all, you just want things to go back to how they used to be...but you know you can't because you know that things will never quite look or feel the same again. It scars you, but you will heal and it does make you stronger than you ever thought you could be. The though of it seems so far away now I know but, you will be happy again!

You are a superwoman!! I salute you!

newbiefrugalgal Sat 31-Aug-13 16:35:08

OP I unfortunately understand your pain.
Amazing advice on here.
I can't add anymore just hope you are ok:

Fireplaces Sat 31-Aug-13 18:12:17

Ok, update:- last night my RL friend was here and I bent her ear for a few hours. She brought wine and chocolate with her smile.

I actually managed to have nine hours sleep which was just brilliant and I have felt a whole lot more energetic and positive today as a result.

I read through your posts to get some ideas of things I could do today. The theme was being nice to myself. So, I have been to the gym and had a really good workout. I then went to the shops and bought some new make up and a new top, which I am really pleased with. Had a bit of a "it's all too loud " trauma moment again, but having tried on clothes in the shop, I realised that I had dropped a size so I came home and had a mass clothes-trying-on session. In the peace and quiet of my own house. I had loads of clothes stashed away that I have bought over the years "for when I am slimmer.".... as a result I now have about 25 things in my wardrobe that I can wear that I couldn't get into a month ago. For no money. Happy happy days. smile

I've managed to eat today, I'm about to EBay some of those too-big clothes, and I am taking your advice, and looking to watch a series on I-player that I never saw the first time.

So thank you for all your ideas. I shall be hopefully getting some sleep tonight and feeling up to doing some more of them tomorrow.

Wow. Sounds like your day has been productive and that you've done lots of positive stuff. Impressed. You will get though this successfully I know.

AnyFucker Sat 31-Aug-13 18:42:16

smile

the Heartbreak Diet has it's uses

3mum Sat 31-Aug-13 19:34:42

Delurking to say that you have done really well on your first weekend without children (and throughout!). It is a horrible void at first being without the children and I hated it, particularly as my exH had never spent much time with them before (another terribly important City type who turned out to have had a string of affairs) but decided post split to reinvent himself as wonder dad.

What really helped me was to sit down with a calendar and plan all my no children weekends like a military campaign so that I had something organised for every weekend - gym classes/party/theatre/weekend away/ meet up group etc. Somehow it all seems much more bearable. The plus point is that it also enhances your social life overall. I shared the calendar with my closest friends and they made sure that group visits to the theatre/cinema etc fell on those weekends as much as possible. As other posters have said, people like to help if you can make it clear what you want.

I am now starting to get to the point where my life with just me and the children and my social life are both looking a lot better than they ever did before. You will reach that point too if you decide to make the separation permanent. I promise.

Very best wishes.

ImpulsePineapple Sat 31-Aug-13 20:50:58

So glad you are managing so well! Keep busy x

stargirl04 Sat 31-Aug-13 21:00:27

Just wanted to add to the chorus of approval and say that I think you are awesome, Fireplaces. I'll bet that husband of yours doesn't know what's hit him. You rock!

I remember reading on some message boards a few years ago (not here) specifically about infidelity and one poster was a DW who had had an affair with another man. She was posting on the boards in order to give insight about the cheater's mentality and thought processes.

When her DH found out about her affair he was very tough and took swift action, asking her to move out immediately (I don't think they had DCs).

She said that once she ended up living in a horrible, dingey flat, her DH having cut off communication with her, the affair suddenly and dramatically lost its allure and she ended it very quickly.

She was on her own for a few months, I think, before her DH would entertain any thought of reconciliation. Even when they started to communicate again he still made it hard for her. She said that she had to "work really, really hard to win him back" over a prolonged period.

Slowly they re-established their relationship and, eventually, she moved back into the marital home. His swift and ruthless response had provoked not only a profound sense of loss on her part but also sheer terror - she'd truly believed that she had lost him for ever.

I remember distinctly her writing that the affair had been "a huge mistake that would NEVER be repeated", and she credited her DH's tough response for that. She was on the message boards to try to help and inspire other betrayed spouses and I've never forgotten what she wrote.

So what the other ladies have said about cheaters being motivated by loss is true.

Naturally, you are bound to have regrets, to doubt your decision and to wonder if you're being too harsh. You will feel lonely, and desolate and very bleak. But please do try to take this woman's story as inspiration, and know that your refusal to cave in too quickly is for a much greater good, whether that is the ultimate demise of your marriage or the creation of a new, stronger relationship with your DH.

Nothing worth having in life comes easily - it has to be worked for. So make sure your DH has to work like hell to get you back, Fireplaces. Not just men but all of us place a greater value on that which we have to work hard for.

You will already be a woman of towering strength in his eyes because of your assertive reaction and the OW, trust me, will have become much, much less alluring now he realises what he stands to lose.

Create mystery, distance and use the power of silence to your advantage - it will totally destroy him. And only when he feels that pain can he truly understand the magnitude of what he has done and begin to take responsibility and to realise what it is that is really important to him in life.

Wishing you continued strength Fireplaces. Don't forget: you rock!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

stargirl04 Sat 31-Aug-13 21:07:57

PS... Forgot to say.... that's if you decide you want to make a go of it, but you may decide otherwise! x x

Fireplaces Sat 31-Aug-13 21:30:13

3mum thanks for the advice about planning the diary. I am going to do it.

stargirl thank you for an interesting post. It is useful to get the point of view of that woman.

I just took my wedding ring off. First time in about three years that it has left my finger. I have a dent and a sun tan mark. Feels very wired but let's see where it takes me.

Fireplaces Sat 31-Aug-13 21:31:08

Meant to say 'feels very weird' . Blinkin' auto 'correct'.

Stargirl makes a good point. My DH was definitely a bit scared by the fact I filed for divorce so quickly, and got on with my life. I think it freaked him out to see me dressed up, happy, going out for dinner with friends, applying for jobs etc. It brought it home to him with a big bang that I wasn't sitting there pining, available as a back up option. He didn't get to make a choice. That coupled with the fact we really did make friends, really enjoyed hanging out together as friends, and were going through the split in a grown up amicable way made the whole 'loss' thing quite pertinent.

Fireplaces I really admire your dignity. It pays to be pleasant, reasonable, and kind but determined in your contact with your DH. I always was, because that's my nature, and it did give me a slightly ironic sense of superiority when OW went so nuts when the affair ended that my DH was 'worried for her mental health'. This was the woman he'd described as 'so calm'. It's not kind but I still refer to her as 'her calmness' and have a small chuckle to myself. It's easy to be calm when you only ever meet someone in 5 star hotels and dine in the best restaurants London and New York can offer grin.

onefewernow Sun 01-Sep-13 15:03:35

WS, I had a similar experience.

Stupidly I didn't throw him out, but I did move into the spare room for 6 weeks, and gave him a wide berth. I went away for a couple of weekends, and left him entirely alone in his office the rest of the time. I gave the kids plenty of attention. I think he began to see I was coping fine.

I didn't chat, and dressed my best and came and went a fair bit. At one point he sent a complimentary text to me about a new dress and I rebuffed it sharply. He shat bricks.

Wellwobbly Mon 02-Sep-13 10:56:13

Fireplaces you write about the trauma so well.

I also agree your swift action gives you the biggest chance. Worcester proves this as well.

I didnt, and it was the biggest mistake ever. My behaviour was a walking text book on how NOT to do it.

Wellwobbly don't blame yourself, or the way you dealt with things any more. Please don't. Nothing that happened was your 'fault'. I think walking away makes it easier as it speeds up the process, but ultimately the end result will be the same.

You said somewhere that you are going through a divorce that neither of you want. If you both have doubts you can stall it. That's what I did. It gives you a bit of breathing space without closing off your way out.

I really hope it works out for you in whatever way will make you happiest.

mumsiebaibe Mon 02-Sep-13 21:45:37

Hi Fireplaces,
Sorry to know what you are going through. I am married myself but a word of advice to us women, yes it is an honour to be married but we should stop putting husbands on a pedestal. They as humans have their flaws, and with the high expectations comes the disappointment and shock when issues like affairs come up.
Secondly, yes ,you have thrown him out which to you its the best decision for you but after the dust settles just search within yourself and see where you also went wrong so you might keep your eyes open in your next relationship if you decide to have another one.
Personally I think this divorce thing is a bit too drastic if you have doubts just opt for a trial separation and try to work things out if possible. Or if you go your separate ways, you find another man and it happens again are you going to divorce again and stay celibate for the rest of your life?

Aussiebean Mon 02-Sep-13 21:50:57

Hi mumsie.

Have you ever experienced what the Op has gone through?

mumsiebaibe Mon 02-Sep-13 21:52:00

No one is perfect, as the saying goes THERE IS NOTHING AS A PERFECT MARRIAGE. Men are simple creatures you just know how to deal with them. You let them feel they are THE HEAD but forget that without THE NECK the head cannot function.
All the best girl!

ShipwreckedAndComatose Mon 02-Sep-13 21:58:18

hmm

Wellwobbly Mon 02-Sep-13 22:00:03

Hi, Mumsie, I used to think exactly the way you did. I also used to think I had some control over things.

But what happens when the problem actually is your partner's selfishness?

What can you do when he mishandles his depression (by acting out etc), and that selfishness stops the humility he needs to really look at himself?

What can YOU do, when little things start adding up in HIS life - like, his hair starts falling out, manboobs start appearing, he can't get it up quite as hard, that makes HIM think, fuck I am getting old, and the distress of that INDIGNITY makes him go and check that he still is all that?

And then, when he is found out and has shattered everything, he still doesn't have the humility to give her a real apology, real remorse, real reassurance? Because he doesn't really want to admit that the reasons he did this actually are shitty reasons? Selfishness. Greed. Because he could. Because secret new forbidden sex is much more exciting. Because keeping secrets makes him feel great. Because his need to 'feel good' was more important than her pain.

Not a lot the wife can do, you know. Because this stuff isn't about HER or the marriage.

Libertine73 Mon 02-Sep-13 22:15:25

Well said wobbly

hope you are alright op.

KalevalaForMePlease Mon 02-Sep-13 22:36:59

Hey mumsie, the 1950's called and asked when you're coming back...

mumsiebaibe Mon 02-Sep-13 23:00:42

Hi wobbly, wow! this situation seems more like the man is going through a mid- life crisis. and instead of him humbling himself and apologising he is rather being arrogant also. There is not much for the wife to do in this situation. It might be best to cut yourself loose from this selfish man before he takes your sanity!
Once you are still alive you don't know what you will find tomorrow.
All the best.

UptheChimney Tue 03-Sep-13 09:04:15

First time I've heard marriage called "an honour" for women, outside of the 1960s ...

just search within yourself and see where you also went wrong Because the OP physically pushed her husband onto the OW and suggested they have sex.

Yes, I think that's where she went wrong.

Wellwobbly Tue 03-Sep-13 10:19:10

Mumsie, the problem is, that real life is boring. It's drudgery. It is washing and bills and there is a damp patch in the bathroom do you think it is the roof, a leak or rising damp? It is Mummy, Mummy, Mummy and wiping surfaces and bums and being tired.

OW on the other hand, is infatuation and unearned admiration, shiny eyes, shallow emotion and exciting sex.

The wife simply cannot compete against that. She can't. She represents EVERYTHING in his life that is obligation, responsibility and drudge. The OW is not a replacement, she is an ESCAPE from all of that.

You really are mixing up two things. Affairs are not about the wife, or the marriage. They are about shallow emotion, selfish, ego. There are many many men who do NOT cheat. This is because they are grown up, and have a deeper emotional connection with what they consider important. What ever the temptation.

An honour?
FFS
shock

Chyochan Tue 03-Sep-13 12:19:03

Why do they deny it, it seems to make no sense. Could it be a reaction to you challenging the nice little fantasy he was enjoying so much, that hes this great desirable guy, that has enraged him, so the disrespect shown in blatent lying is a way to hurt you. You should see it as his last ditch attempt to controle and belittle you, let him know it hasn't a chance in hell of working.

Fireplaces I hope you're feeling ok this week. Thinking of you.

Zoe909 Tue 03-Sep-13 16:20:35

mumsie, being celibate doesn't mean you can't be happy, confident and secure. I'm celibate at the moment, no idea what's around the corner, and I don't mind that. Anything could happen, but I'm in control of it. As in, I don't have to put up with being lied to or cheated on or disrespected again, and that's nice. I'm just getting to the point now where I've recovered from the financial blast and the children are happy and we are so over it..... I feel genuine pity for somebody who rocks up on a thread like this and advises somebody to just suck it up because they have to hmm you must have a very low self-esteem. We get what we tolerate they say.

ImpulsePineapple Tue 03-Sep-13 16:37:50

Celibate is lovely smile don't knock it.

Thinking of you fireplaces, hope you are ok.

clam Tue 03-Sep-13 17:58:31

"You let them feel they are THE HEAD"

Do you? hmm I don't. Because my dh and I are absolute equals OK, I'm the head.

ChasedByBees Tue 03-Sep-13 18:02:28

What the hell?!

balia Tue 03-Sep-13 19:21:20

I'm not sure that is how the saying goes, exactly.

Still, managing to be rampantly sexist and offensive to women, all in one post. Not a lot of energy left for coherence, I expect.

Hey Fireplaces hope you and the DCs are OK.

Fireplaces Tue 03-Sep-13 20:12:09

Hi, am still reading the thread updates.
Have spent a lot of time crying. Have been to Relate for initial assessment appointment. She was actually very good. I have also seen a psychotherapist for counselling. She was brilliant, really helpful.
I am trying to have a theme of "be nice to myself". It's all so difficult.
Xxx

onefewernow Tue 03-Sep-13 20:36:47

Well done FP.

I have a great Relate counsellor too- they vary, and are not all crap.

There is a great book on infidelity by Frank Pittman, called Beyond Betrayal, if you are interested.

Also one on break ups which has a great reputation called Getting Past your Break up, by Susan Elliott- worth a read, whatever you eventually decide.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Tue 03-Sep-13 21:15:21

Glad that there are some positives in your last post, Fire, even if it is still very difficult.

Keeping you in my thoughts

TigsytheTiger Wed 04-Sep-13 08:11:20

Felt compelled to post as I was in your situation exactly a year ago, except my DH denied everything despite my evidence, minimised it, got angry and nasty. I was a wreck I lost a stone and shook constantly. I couldn't imagine a life without him and the future we had planned. It was a physical aching pain and it upsets me a bit now to write it down.

BUT, here I am one whole year later, settled in a new home, rented not bought, but I've realised that is not the be all and end all. Amazing friends who dragged me through the first couple of months and who got angry for me when I just wanted to give up and a supportive family. I had counselling through a domestic abuse group (what a catch he was eh?) . I have met a lovely man, who my kids get on really well with and we have just moved in together.

Out of the shit, I now have a great life, I had to go back to work full-time, it's tiring but I am enjoying it. My life never will be the same again but it is far better, more open and honest and actually he did me a favour !

This isn't meant to be a smug post I just wanted to show their life afterwards and you will be happy again, it's a promise!

TigsytheTiger Wed 04-Sep-13 08:12:21

There is life after ..... Bloody phone!

lazarusb Wed 04-Sep-13 10:29:04

Can I just delurk to post that, while celibacy is absolutely a good choice for a lot of people, you don't need to be married to have sex either smile Even if you happen to be female...

'Honoured' to be married!? I don't think so. I say that as a happily married woman in an equal relationship. I certainly wouldn't be blaming myself if dh decided to cheat though.

Wellwobbly Wed 04-Sep-13 11:38:46

Hi, what did the Relate counsellor say?

What did the other counsellor say?

Tears - you wonder if they will ever stop. WHY does society trivialise affairs? Heartbreak is physical.

comingintomyown Thu 05-Sep-13 07:45:29

Are you ok fireplaces ?

comingintomyown Thu 05-Sep-13 22:27:07

Has this thread moved ?

Where did you go fireplaces ? Hope you are ok

Fireplaces Fri 06-Sep-13 21:04:23

Hi
Sorry have not been up to posting. Life is all a bit shit at the moment. DH is still out of the house by my choice. I am way too hurt and upset and angry to talk to him. We have sorted out access to the DC.

I have been to Relate on my own, and to see a psychotherapist. Both were really good actually. Relate have offered couples counselling but I am not ready for that yet. Both of them said I was exhibiting signs of shock and that I cannot and should not be expected to make any decisions about the future at the moment as I am barely operating.

Both said that it sounds like a mid life crisis affair by my DH; a classic fantasy escape from his obligations and responsibilities.

For his part, he is full of remorse, says he will do anything to make it better etc. But the trouble is, do I want to do that? The pychotherapist says I am doing "circular thinking" where i think about loads of issues from mornjng til night but never get any answers: eg "Wouldn't I be putting everything into trying to rebuild what was already a troubled relationship? Wouldn't I always be suspicious? I would never want him to touch me again, because he would have been touching her like that. Shouldn't I just cut my losses? But that would be bloody hard...maybe I should just settle for less"....and my thoughts go on and on, from the moment I wake up to the moment I fall asleep. It is exhausting and it is shit.

The GP has given me some drugs to help me sleep, my friends are trying to help, but at the end of the day I am sitting here alone on a Friday night, utterly miserable, barely functioning and in so much emotional pain. My heart is utterly broken and I just can't cope with this horrid horrid feeling any more. I feel like I am sinking. And he has done all this to me. After all the shared experiences and after so long together, it has come down to this.

CeliaFate Fri 06-Sep-13 21:09:18

I'm sorry you're having a shit time Fireplaces. You are going through enormous life changes and it's totally normal to feel like this.
I know what you mean bout non-stop thinking. I do this too, it's so hard to switch off your train of thought.
You are doing so well, it's so strong of you to go to Relate and a psychotherapist.
Take the drugs the gp prescribed, lean on your friends as much as you can. Can your family help too?
This too will pass.

lazarusb Fri 06-Sep-13 21:23:14

What you're feeling is absolutely normal for someone in your shoes. Look on it as going through a bereavement - it isn't easy to understand or make sense of anything right now but it isn't something you can just switch off and stop thinking about either. You don't have to make any big firm decisions just yet, just look after yourself and make sure you protect yourself legally & financially. Sooner or later your feelings will drop into place and your path will seem a little clearer. It will still hurt like hell but it's still very early days. No wonder you feel you're going in circles.

skyeskyeskye Fri 06-Sep-13 21:45:17

I'm sorry you are feeling low but I do know exactly what it's like sad it's hard to see anything other than what you are going through and it does have to be gone through sad

Your counselling sounds good. You are in shock and it does take a while to go. I was in a state of shock for quite a while but it does wear off.

You are doing very well by keeping him away. Like the counsellors said, you can't make any decisions at the moment.

One day at a time, one step at a time. Whatever gets you through the day.

balia Sat 07-Sep-13 09:39:24

It will get better. It WILL get better. It will get BETTER.

Honestly.

I found this lady helpful; scroll down to the Katie Byron vid.
infidelitysurvivor.com/i-thought-you-were-supposed-to-love-me-byron-katie

Her website is here

onefewernow Sat 07-Sep-13 11:13:32

FP it really does pass. So sorry

lazarusb Sat 07-Sep-13 12:15:09

How are you today? Did you manage to sleep last night?

Wellwobbly Sat 07-Sep-13 18:12:38

Poor Fireplaces, it is such a shock and hurts so much when you find out that what you thought your life was, is not. It is absolutely devastating. You WILL get through this, but bloody hell it hurts.

mammadiggingdeep Sat 07-Sep-13 18:55:39

sad I understand about circular thinking. It's horrendous....a treadmill you can't get off. It does lessen as the weeks go on. It will get slowly easier. Just be kind to yourself. One foot in front of the other. X

mumsiebaibe Sat 07-Sep-13 21:10:31

Hi Fireplaces, sorry you are going through such a tough time. I thought this might help. You can contact this person on this website(www.renatocardoso.com) and explain the situation you are in(if you don't mind).It might help you to think more clearly and rationally about the next action to take. With issues like these, well meaning people will come up with loads of ideas but at the end of it all you choose what YOU think is best for you and your DC. Take care.

marthastew Mon 09-Sep-13 00:56:07

Hi FPs,

I've been through this and it does pass. Honestly. It takes a long time but eventually you will start to recover. Whatever path you choose, you will not always feel like this.

I know its awful and scary and very very hard but you'll get there.

x

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