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DP is a lazy fucker.

(180 Posts)

Ok, thread title may be a slight harsh, but seriously. I'm losing the will to cope.

DP is not in work (made redundant in June) and has always been shite in the mornings but its getting fucking annoying now. He gets up between 10 and 12 most mornings, leaving me with three DC under five. I have no family support.

I'm so bloody resentful, the kids love him and DD1 thinks its great cuddling a half asleep daddy even though I'm the one who gets up with them.

Some mornings I leave the baby in bed with him while I sort the older two but the other day I came upstairs to find her absolutely screaming and him fast asleep wrapped in the duvet hmm

Sorry this is a muddle, I'm pretty angry right now, this isn't the only issue. What do I do? I've tried forcing him to get up, leaving him to it, suggesting taking it in turns to lay in, and nothing works. Even when he had a job he'd ignore his alarm and end up rushing out of the door. He's 22, if that makes a difference.

Is this a problem? Am I just a control freak? Never posted here before.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Mon 19-Aug-13 10:08:21

Kick him out. You will be better off without him and it might give him the wake up call he needs.

His age is irrelevant. He decided to be a father, and he has to be a father.

What is he doing about finding another job?

Mwirren Mon 19-Aug-13 10:11:42

yes, he needs a wake up call. The sacrifices for parenting are currently about 97% yours. You do everything while he lies in bed.

If he's 22 and you don't think he's emotionally capable of recognising this inequality, or too fundamentally selfish to relinquish his well, selfishness, then I agree with PP, you should take a stand and tell him to leave. I bet he'd find a job quicker if he weren't in a comfortable home with cute kids cuddling him while he lies in bed til mid day, his clothes washed and dried? his meals prepared? who buys the toilet paper he wipes his ass with!? he needs a reality check. Your life is not a sacrifice to his convenience.

I know you're right, and sometimes I do fantasise about kicking him out and not tip toeing around him.

But I have zero self esteem, pretty high anxiety, and as he'd go back to his parents' which is a five minute walk away the thought of bumping into him in the shop (for example) makes me feel sick. I know, I'm pathetic, but trust me, I'd do anything for some confidence. Currently on a counselling waiting list.

I suppose I do do most housework (and buy toilet roll!), but I'd rather do it than leave it to him where we'd probably live surrounded by food wrappers, dirty nappies and eat shit.

Sorry to drop feed but when he is awake, he can be helpful, but 90% of the time is playing bloody computer games. Cba to do things with the children. I organise it all.

Re job hunt... He's applied to the forces, but I suppose other than that he's not exactly looking very hard. Which is odd, because he likes being work.

This is my fault for becoming pregnant within a nanosecond of meeting him, isn't it? Why the fuck didn't i get to know him first? O that's right, the self esteem issues. Wow, this is a self pitying thread!

Drip feed*

Tiredemma Mon 19-Aug-13 10:26:43

what was he like when he was in work?

could he be depressed?

He could be depressed, not that he'd ever admit to that.

Thought tbf, he was like this every weekend when he was in work

ImperialBlether Mon 19-Aug-13 10:37:59

The forces? They'd love him, wouldn't they? What exactly would he be offering?

I'd suggest to him that he moves back to his mum's while he's looking for work. He should be the one worried about bumping into you, not the other way around!

You're doing all the work anyway. It's much easier doing it all on your own than doing it while someone else is in bed or playing computer games.

He is very young to have three children. Are you the same age?

ImperialBlether Mon 19-Aug-13 10:38:25

He's not depressed, ffs! He's living life exactly how he wants to!

rockybalboa Mon 19-Aug-13 10:38:32

Leave numerous alarm clocks around the bedroom. Lazy fucker needs to haul his ass out of bed and contribute something to the family whether that be getting back into work or helping with the kids. That said, when I was 22 laying in bed for most of the day was essential. But I was a lazy arsed student, he is not.

rockybalboa Mon 19-Aug-13 10:39:43

Ah, I now see the computer games comment. I suspected something like that might be an issue. Is he up til 3am on it?

Tiredemma Mon 19-Aug-13 10:39:52

Thats why I asked!

Has he always been like this or just since losing his job????

ohforfoxsake Mon 19-Aug-13 10:45:20

I just don't get grown men sitting on their arse spending the day playing computer games.

OP you might be regretting your haste now, but it could be a turning point. I suspect you may need to take some time out and leave him to get on with it. Do you work?

What is he looking to do - if he looking at the forces, what about the police in some capacity? Special constable or community officer? A voluntary role in the interim?

He may also have self-respect issues, and will have if he doesn't get off his arse. The longer he sits and plays games, the harder it will be I suspect.

Squitten Mon 19-Aug-13 10:49:00

He's not depressed. He's living the sweet life because you are being a doormat and allowing him to walk all over you.

This can all stop but only once you realise that you and your children are worth more than this crap and that your life cannot possibly get any worse without him in it.

Take a moment to think - if he disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow, what exactly would change about your day-to-day life?

Imperial - about smile I smiled this morning! I've asked that before; surely he'd hate such a regimented life?!

Re him moving home - but what are the practicalities? We're in a joint tenancy that started in June. The house is ideal (for the children)

We're about same age - I've just turned 24 and he's nearly 23, though admittedly the oldest child isn't "his", however we've been together since he was 1.

Rocky - the alarm clock idea sounds tempting, as does hiding his phone/ipad/games, getting the kids to jump on him etc.. But I know I can't do any of that. He will hold all the cards then, because I'll suddenly be the immature one!

At the minute he is staying up very late playing some game or other (and he's cut down massively!) But this man could go to bed at 9pm and still laze in bed the next morning.

Tiredemma - yes unfortunately this does seem to be one of his personality traits, work or no work, and maybe compared to some of the other things he has done during our relationship the staying in bed would seem extremely tame.

Fuck, I've just come upstairs to dry my hair, and he's barely stirred! This can't be normal. I don't want to cry in front of the kids again.

Ohfor- he wouldn't go in the police. He's known to them, his friends are often in trouble with them.. Oh god I can't believe I'm writing this. Yes, I know, what a catch right?

Squitten - if he disappeared, that would be pretty good actually. I'd cope fine. The only problem is no one disappears do they? They still live in the same (fucking) town.

feelingvunerable Mon 19-Aug-13 11:00:09

I really think you need a break from him.

It will be hard at first but seriously, what does he bring to this relationship?

ohforfoxsake Mon 19-Aug-13 11:09:15

You need to get the 'shape up or ship out' message across.

You will be better off on your own. I'm sorry, but I do believe life is less frustrating when you are doing it alone, than resenting the lazy lump you have to do it around. After the misery will come resentment and hatred.

You could go to Relate for counselling, go for a trial separation or you could leave him.

Is he even aware there is a problem?

There is a website - I think it's called 'entitledto.com' but I'm not sure so you'll have to google it. It'll tell you how you'd fare WRT benefits. I'd get some facts and figures in place and think about options.

Once you have worked out your options he will know you are serious about making changes.

Feeling - you're right, I do need a break. I WANT a break. I'm just so bad at confrontation that I'd find it very hard to request him to leave without breaking down somewhat. How do people do it? Genuine question.

What does he bring to the relationship? Ok, so right now I can't think of an answer, especially as he's snoring and its 11 fucking am. I suppose the main thing is I'm terrified of the fact that if he leaves I'll be a single mother with three children (would anyone find me attractive in that case?) And he will be a cool single guy. He'll probably start washing/shaving again regularly. Dear god.

And no, I don't work. I left a highly competitive uni degree to be a mother. Hmm.

Mwirren Mon 19-Aug-13 11:22:53

wrt self esteem, it's a very difficult thing to acknowledge, or was so for me anyway, to realise that your own low self-esteem was the reason you chose a rubbish man....... and you have done that here on this thread, at 22 (?) I was about 36 before I had the self-awareness and the honestly to assess my own mistakes and to look back and realise that my low self-esteem was responsible for my catastrophic choices.

I was a lot older than you are now when I got involved with my x (children's father that is). The x before him had dumped me with a brutal character assassination which wounded me deeply and scarred me to this day.

Intellectually, rationally, you know it's not fair, but you don't believe that you can demand more. And by demand, I mean 'get'. Demand, get, deserve, they're all so linked. You deserve more but can you demand it and get it?

First off, read Sherry Argov's book. It is called Bitch or something, a really off-putting title, but it's a really really accessible book, the basic message is spot on. Identify the beat of your own drum, and then march to it! Your beat!

I got in to something called EFT for a while, I need to pick it back up.

This is a much simpler form of it, and you might think I am mad, but go in to the bathroom and look in the mirror and look yourself in the eye and say "even though i am powerless now, I do have strength, I do have power, and I can work hard. I am worth more than this. I will change things. I deserve respect, and I deserve a better easier more rewarding life and I will get that'

Please indulge me! Please do this every time you go to the loo!

You probably aren't in the position to have psychotherapy right now. I had psychotherapy after leaving an abusive relationship. I realised at psychotherapy that I had cared more that other people believed I was happy and I was prepared to endure a miserable life so that other people would believe I was happy and normal. When I realised that I had prioritised appearing to be happy over actually being happy I was shell shocked. And I was in my mid 30s then, so I'm really impressed with your self awareness and honesty.

ohforfoxsake Mon 19-Aug-13 11:23:15

Do you want to go back to your degree?

Why can't he look after the children why you study?

AbuseHamzaMousseCake Mon 19-Aug-13 11:27:52

In your shoes, I would get back to uni and leave him to look after the kids. He will have to shape up. You will have a useful qualification and be able to support yourself.

Mwirren- thank you for taking the time to write that, and I love reading so will have a look on the Kindle for "Bitch"(haha!).

Ohfor- going back to my degree would be amazing but I'm out of my mat leave now so I'd have to reapply and my lack of confidence keeps telling me to just avoid it. At any rate he's told me enough times he couldn't be a stay at home dad as he'd hate it.

ohforfoxsake Mon 19-Aug-13 11:32:17

He isn't exactly giving himself any options though is he? What if you don't want to be a SAHM?

You need to re-apply for that degree, or get a job. Or find some other way of realising you are a smart, capable, intelligent woman. He isn't going to give that to you.

You have four children. Only three of them are your responsibility.

Mwirren Mon 19-Aug-13 11:36:37

I have to pick up on what you say there "would anybody find that attractive?" by which you mean "am I worthy of some random man"?

You're not going to be able to get the relationship you deserve while you're thinking like this. Eventually you want to be able to assess a man who's clearly interested in you and decide whether you think he's decent enough. Seriously!

When I had my shell shock moment that I referred to, I guess, without labelling it, I put myself on a man-free five year recovery plan. It wasn't just financial. It was practical, emotional, social............. My self esteem has improved. The only relationship I've had since my children's father was with a man who showed me a lot of respect, he was a very loving and responsible (including financially responsible) father to his own children. So,although that relationship didn't last, it signalled a big change in me, and I feel relieved now, I know I will never ever put up with bullshit again.

You are only 22 though! This is serious personal growth type of stuff that I was SO oblivious to at your age. I guess having three children makes one grow up. Makes mothers grow up anyway! If you are able to pin point the low self esteem as the starting point of where it all went 'wrong' I think the next step is to look at improving your self esteem.

keep posting on mn. there are a lot of very wise people here, who really helped me to see things differently, to believe I had the right to raise the bar.

LaRosaBella Mon 19-Aug-13 11:36:45

He sounds like an over indulged teenager.

Mwirren Mon 19-Aug-13 11:41:49

nosplashgash, as somebody who has battled with lack of identity and lack of confidence, I would suggest waiting until your youngest child is at school until you take on something as big as a degree. That is just my take. I know lots of people do it, but they have more fire in their bellies! more 'lift off'. I tried to do it too soon and I had no 'lift off'. I felt overwhelmed. I underestimated the value to getting to the point where I had equilibrium (on a practical level), confidence, security......

Don't let the title of that book put you off it. It is about dating I guess, but don't apply it to dating. Use it as a tool to understand why you ended up with the man you did end up with. That is what I took from it. Some of it is silly and American but the basic message is good.

I want to link something I saw on line about EFT. hang on. back in a sec

pleaseleave Mon 19-Aug-13 11:44:44

Thank you, I think you're right, I definitely haven't chosen men that treat me well. In fact they've all treated me like crap.

I know exactly why I have no self-esteem, too... I have a toxic, abusive family to thank for that. In fact my "mum" constantly used to tell me I was disgusting, ugly, pathetic, mental and that nobody liked me so its no surprise really. I'm 24 now, although still young I guess!

Larosa- very true. He was quite pampered at home whereas I've looked after myself since I was about 12. Worlds apart.

CoteDAzur Mon 19-Aug-13 11:52:00

Kick him out unless he starts being a parent. That involves getting up in the morning and parenting the children, and it also involves shaping up and finding work to support his family.

And please stop having babies for a while at least. Are you using proper contraception?

ImperialBlether Mon 19-Aug-13 11:53:02

I think it would be really good for you to aim to go back to your degree in 2014. Would that be possible? Did you complete a year? A year would give you plenty of time to get yourself sorted with childcare etc.

Go onto the Entitled To website just to see what your situation would be if you were to live with the children.

What is his mum like? Would you trust her and him to have the children overnight sometimes?

I think you'd find it a lot easier if he wasn't there. It's depressing having someone around who doesn't pull their weight.

If your family was so bad I think counselling would be really good for you. At the moment I think a bucket of water over the head would be good for your partner.

ImperialBlether Mon 19-Aug-13 11:53:37

And I hope you don't have any contact with your mum nowadays. You poor thing growing up with her.

LuisSuarezTeeth Mon 19-Aug-13 11:57:14

I just got rid of a twunt that sounds identical to yours. I have also followed a pattern of falling for the wrong men.

I know how hard it is, I really do.

Get rid.

Mwirren Mon 19-Aug-13 11:59:04

oh I hear you!

I was telling my mother what my psychotherapy had taught me, about three weeks ago. And she repeated it back to me, correcting my evaluation of what i'd learnt! so, she thinks she knows better than I do what I gained from my psychotherapy confused she thought it was self-indulgent so I haven't discussed it with her really. as she reminds me, her generation just sucked it up and got on with it.

But my mum never told me I was pathetic or ugly, so I am so sorry for you that you had to listen to that. She must have a low self-esteem too. Which is no excuse I know.

Cote- he got up at 11 because I heard the bin men and asked if he'd taken the bins out and he hadn't. He's being alright with me now (told him we need to talk so I think he's worried) but he's still watching some tripe on channel 5. Oh and re the contraception, yes I'm on the pill and although he reckons he wouldn't mind another (?!) I certainly would!

Imperial - I didn't complete the whole year as baby was due in May (no summer holiday for Midwifery!) but maybe I should try. I guess I'm just embarrassed to go "crawling back" even though my own tutor said I'm welcome to reapply any time I'm ready.

His mum is ok, and I would definitely trust her with the children (her and him i mean). It is definitely depressing. Yes if he wasn't here I'd have to do everything but at least I wouldn't be fighting the urge to go and beat somebody around the head!

My mother was awful and I managed to cut her out and feel better but then my parents went to a solicitor with a sob story and a wad of cash and now have monthly access to my children at their house. I'll get upset if I talk about that though, it's a horrible horrible situation.

Luis - well done!! How did you manage to do it? I fear the man I want to be with is a no existent fairy tale!

Mwirren Mon 19-Aug-13 12:15:14

I am going to start up a thread about raising self esteem, soon, have to go out now, and I want you to join it nosplash. I will bring EFT to the table! it deserves its own thread.
I want to have a thread with affordable, accessible techniques for going ahead and raising self esteem. x

specialsubject Mon 19-Aug-13 12:15:15

tough at only 24. Focus on what you are doing right - looking after and raising three kids, effectively single-handedly.

trouble is, you have a fourth kid. So issue that ultimatum - he either becomes more use or leaves. If the latter, you are no worse off!

and I join in the chorus of 'no more children'.

you can do it. You already are doing it!

Non existent*

feelingvunerable Mon 19-Aug-13 12:17:36

Tell him to go.
Just that.
It may be a different situation but my dh left, different issues to yours.

I found out about ow.
I told him to collect his things and leave his key.
He refused so on the advice of a good friend I threw his things into bin liners and put them on the drive then changed the locks. He told me he wouldn't take them, i said fine they will be left there until a charity collection takes them. Apparently he was driving around with them in the car for over a week, so much for the ow being the love of his life, he couldn't even leave his stuff at hers.

I would take advantage of 30 mins free legal advice too.
Ask on here for what questions to ask and take a friend with you when you go.

Mwirren - will see you there! I'm pretty sure an aunt of mine is a renowned expert at EFT but she lives nowhere near me which is rubbish.

Thank you special- I have learnt a lot about myself and I know having another baby isn't the answer to my problems! So now just focusing on these crazy three smile

LuisSuarezTeeth Mon 19-Aug-13 12:22:29

OP I got the police involved in the end - best thing I could have done. You would be surprised how much support is available, and what is actually classed as domestic abuse.

Feelingvulnerable- that's quite a good idea actually (re the sol!), although we're not married, so do I still need legal advice?

Fuck, I really am a doormat aren't I. I've "forgiven" him for so much. Lies, humiliation, and a whole lot more. But tbh, I think I hate myself more than I hate him... I'm the one allowing this shit to go on and on and on!

MissDD1971 Mon 19-Aug-13 12:29:10

I know what I would do.

This leech is dragging you down, physically and mentally.

Maybe you'd be able to restart degree etc without this millstone draped round your neck?

I hate to be a Debbie Downer but have had leech partner before and seen it with friends. They almost never shape up.

feelingvunerable Mon 19-Aug-13 12:55:57

Don't blame yourself for trying to make it work.

You can still make use of the free legal advice.
I found it very helpful as stbx was filling my head with crap.
A solicitor will tell you the facts.

NeedlesCuties Mon 19-Aug-13 13:25:48

He lies in bed all the time, doesn't shave or wash, plays computer games till all hours??

hmm

Seriously love, your DC and you deserve so much better. Low self-esteem or not, you need to get rid.

Whereabouts do you live? Reckon some MNers could head to your house with a bucket of water to chuck round him wink

You say you don't have family support. Do you have support from friends? Any relationships around which are 'healthy' that you can learn from?

WithConfidence Mon 19-Aug-13 13:37:34

Have a read of this thread The good things about being single ( and living alone.

You would probably be happier! And when he had contact you could work on doing something with your own life.

expatinscotland Mon 19-Aug-13 13:45:30

What a loser this nobber is.

BitOutOfPractice Mon 19-Aug-13 14:01:17

OP I can see you waking up! Good! What a waste of space this man is!

FYI MY BF lost his job in May. This is what he has been doing (we don't live together). He has been looking after his kids more. Cooking everything from scratch which he loves doing but didn't always have time for when he was working. Looking (hard) for another job. (He has an interview right now so fingers crossed!!). He has been doing jobs round his house that he didn't have time for before. And round my house. He's been at my office to help me with my work because I'm overwhelmed.

He most certainly has not been lying in bed till 11. Or spending hours playing computer games.

Whatyour DP is doing is not right. Or normal.

I don't say this to sound smug. But to show you the kind of things that a real grown up man does when he has some time on his hands.

Lweji Mon 19-Aug-13 14:08:46

So, he's not even looking for a job, is he?
Does he clean or cook?

You won't be losing much.

Do show him the door.

Thank you everyone! I have friend support, but most without children so I don't think they understand how crap/helpless I feel

Update: when he came downstairs he was rude to me. Told me to "shut the fuck up" (a common occurence) because I was NOT happy that despite telling him to smoke at the side of the house so the smell doesn't fill the living room he smoked at the front of the house. Smoking. What a waste of (our) money that is! Anyway...

I went upstairs. I took all his stuff out of the wardrobe/drawers. He told me I needed to "clean this mess up", I told him he needed to put it in bags. He did. He was very pissed off.

I'm now at baby group with one of the children, he's at home with the other two, I think he's going to his parents' later.

I definitely wouldn't have done what I've done so far without EVERY person on this thread saying he's a lazy shit and to get rid (or words to that effect.) And that's without me mentioning him pushing me around, taking drugs behind my back, lying to me for months, and forcing me into sex a number of times.

So yeah. I'm shitting myself about getting home. Please don't break down, Splash.

Xenadog Mon 19-Aug-13 14:14:24

Firstly sell his computer console and all the games - you need to bring some money in and he needs to contribute. If he doesn't like it tell the fucker to get off his arse and find a job.

Secondly look at yourself objectively. Yes you do have children with this man plus one other which can make life difficult on a practical level but you also have a brain, are compassionate and can clearly manage as a single parent.

Thirdly you are aware the relationship you are in is not working for you but feel that due to your own self-confidence issues you can't leave. You know you need some sort of therapy to help you with this - go to the docs and hassle them big time to arrange something for you.

Lastly, once you have worked on the self-esteem issue kick this joker to the kerb. You are only in this prison because you are scared to try to the key but I know that it is easy to say leave him when I don't have the same worries and concerns as you. I think you need to be more robust emotionally to kick him out. An action plan as a way forward will give you something to cling to when it gets too much and you will know that you are helping yourself. As others have suggested find out what financial support you could get if you were to be on your own and I also know that (from when I had tenants) you can get his name taken off the rental agreement and leave just yours on without too much effort.

Oh and do think about going back and studying - there may be other types of help for you if you do.

You don't have to live this life but only you can change it. xxx

AnotherStitchInTime Mon 19-Aug-13 14:15:43

He needs to step up or ship out. As you said you don't want another child, especially not a man size one.

When you are ready to go back do it. My SIL had to take time off her nursing degree to have her dd5 who was premature, born at 30 weeks and in SCBU. She has finished now despite having to take lots of time off and has a good job. She is a single parent with 4 kids still at home.

You know as a single parent student you may also be eligible for specific fund financial support as well as qualifying for housing benefit.

MrsOakenshield Mon 19-Aug-13 14:18:07

that's fantastic OP! What an utter shit to tell you to 'shut the fuck up', how dare he, useless, sponging waste of space that he is.

As you've realised, one of the best things you can do is keep posting on MN. I am very fortunate in never having needed to post on relationships, but I am always staggered by the amount of wise, generous help, support and advice that posters give to those who need it.

Best of luck to you and your DC.

MrsOakenshield Mon 19-Aug-13 14:19:29

oh my lord, I have just properly read your last post - he's raped you? More than once??

Your DC do not need a rapist in their lives. Not now, not ever ever again. As far as I'm concerned, he should be out for good.

AnotherStitchInTime Mon 19-Aug-13 14:28:36

OP he is not just a lazy fucker.

No, he is an abusive rapist.

You deserve better, he is like a leech sucking your confidence from you.

You can and are already raising 3 children pretty much single handed.

You are intelligent and capable and worth so, so much more.

Just think how much lighter you will feel when you get rid of the man size parasite you are currently carrying around.

Please talk to Women's Aid to get some support 0808 2000 247.

comingintomyown Mon 19-Aug-13 14:32:19

WithConfidence I loved that thread !

Lweji Mon 19-Aug-13 14:34:06

He seems dangerous.

Please take a friend with you.
Or even his mum, if you trust her.

showtunesgirl Mon 19-Aug-13 14:34:29

Run, OP, just run.

Tiredemma Mon 19-Aug-13 14:38:16

In addition to lazy fucker I would throw in Grade A Cunt also.

He is of no worth to you- and rapes you. Seriously you may have no self esteem at the moment but that is because of him.

Throw him out.

encyclogirl Mon 19-Aug-13 14:42:27

What an horrible, horrible 'man'. You can do so much better OP.

Stick to your guns and get him out.

He rapes you? What a pig.

Xenadog Mon 19-Aug-13 15:00:17

OP our posts must have crossed - you know you don't need this lazy, abusive, selfish man so I suggest you make sure he goes and stays gone. xx

SweetSeraphim Mon 19-Aug-13 15:00:44

This is the first time I've ever said LTB.

He's vile. I've had one of these, left him when dd was 6 (she's now 15) and managed perfectly well, honestly. It's a bit of a struggle at first, but you get used to it, and it's a joy without having to be responsible for a manchild like him.

I'm with someone else now, for the first time ever, another ADULT that pulls his weight with domestic tasks and children. He still needs a kick up the arse sometimes hmm but over the years, I've learned not to take any shit.

He's not a man Splash - he's a lazy, selfish fucking rapist. Seriously, get rid. You and your lovely children will be so much better off without him thanks

LuisSuarezTeeth Mon 19-Aug-13 15:21:17

This man is an abuser.

Stay strong and GET HIM OUT. You and your children deserve so much better.

You have so much support here. Keep posting, I am thinking of you x

NumTumDeDum Mon 19-Aug-13 15:30:13

Get an appointment with a solicitor. You need to make an application for a transfer of tenancy under The Family Law Act and get that tenancy in your sole name. You should also take advice on whether you should apply for a non molestation order. It sounds to me like you should. Give Women's Aid a call, as advised above, they are so helpful and supportive.

Love, you will get much more support from Uni funding if you are a lone parent than if you are stuck with that twat. Get him out, get on the phone to the DWP and Tax Credits and reclaim your life.

ohforfoxsake Mon 19-Aug-13 16:16:53

Nosplash - stay strong. You didn't need us to tell you he is a lazy fucker.

Now finish what you've started and make him clear out. You won't notice he's gone - except that life will be easier, less frustrating, if a little more logistically difficult.

Don't know where you got this idea from that you aren't up to much - seems to me you are a pretty strong, clever woman with her whole life ahead and three children who will grow up proud of you.

Good luck.

missbopeep Mon 19-Aug-13 16:24:00

He's still a child.

I have 2 children now adults- both older than you and your partner.
There is no way either of them would want or could cope with 3 children under 5 - unless of course they had made a conscious choice to do that, which they haven't.

In all honestly this boy- which is what he is- is not long term husband-partner material. He's far too young to take on the care of 3 children, one which is his and was born when he was 21?

You shouldn't be thinking along the lines of which other men will want you etc, you should be forgetting about men for a very long time and focusing on getting a career or a job to support your children.

Let this guy go- he's not going to be what you want. Send him back to his mum where he belongs at his age, until he can support himself.

WeAreSeven Mon 19-Aug-13 16:29:35

My dsis was with a man that that.

When he was working and she was studying, she did most of the donkey-work.
She thought when it was her turn to work and his to study, that he would do the donkey-work. He didn't.
When her dd was 6, the head called her in and advised dsis that because her dd had missed a lot of school days, that SS would have to be told if she missed any more. dsis was shocked as she hadn't realised her dd had missed so much school. When her dp was supposed to be bringing their dd to school, he was lying in bed. When dn asked her Dad to bring her to school, it emerged he was telling the child to fuck off!angry

Dsis LTB! She is now much happier, has met someone who pulls his weight and my niece is much happier now!

Madlizzy Mon 19-Aug-13 16:30:15

If you're scared to go back home, take someone with you, because I bet he wouldn't hurt you in front of someone else. I'd even be tempted to ask a police officer to go with you and ask him to leave.

What all the other respondents have written.

Not surprised that this arsehat wants more children by you; he will use them to keep you further trapped and beaten down.

At least you are self aware enough to realise that your own upbringing at the hands of toxic parents contributed to the situation you now find yourself in. You can get out of this hole that you have partially dug for yourself and this male abusive cocklodger (such men often target single mums) needs to be gone from your lives asap.

With regards to counselling BACP are good and do not charge the earth.

(Grandparents do not have automatic rights to see their grandchildren in the UK so was wondering how your toxic family have managed to see their grandchildren once a month at their house).

Madlizzy Mon 19-Aug-13 16:37:32

Oh yes, what Attila said about the grandchildren. They may have sent letters through a solicitor, but have they actually been to court to apply for access to the children? I doubt it, and you can say no to the children going there.

Mwirren Mon 19-Aug-13 17:38:46

oh bless you you poor thing, coping with all this virtually alone, and now you reveal that on top of being a lazy entitled useless article he has forced you to have sex.

I think you are seeing him through fresh eyes. There 's no way you can go back to denial now is there?

At least if you kick him out, he will just go back to his mummy and daddy's and play xbox 24/7. I hope that you will be spared the bullshit of him deluding himself that you and he have some sort of loving or supportive relationship.

He shows you no respect, no emotional or practical support with the children, and he forces you to have sex.

you are a strong woman, although at 24 I wish you didn't have to be so strong. But your strength and maturity and self-awareness, and in time, your ambition will get you to a better place. You will have an easier rewarding life when you have taken the first step in the right direction which is of course, getting this useless abusive man out of your house.

brew

Mwirren Mon 19-Aug-13 17:40:10

First step. Get rid of him.
Second step. Start doing exercises to raise self-esteem!

Keep posting.

xx

Mwirren Mon 19-Aug-13 17:46:15

ps, my x was similar when I tried to open up any discussion about improving my lot. If I wanted more help with the children, or if I wanted to talk about childcare with a view to my working so that I could be more independent he always shut that right down by reacting so aggressively. He effectively trained me never to ask for anything for myself, because if I asked for anything, money, driving lessons, help, it just resulted in a big row. So after 8 years with him I had trained myself to totally sublimate all needs. Whilst of course, having a heightened awareness of all of his hmm so, you can see why I stayed away from men for five years! Not because I hated all men. I always blamed only my x for the behaviour of my x. But I was determined to re-calibrate that barometer inside my own head, ykwim.

peggyundercrackers Mon 19-Aug-13 17:50:00

sorry but if he was still in bed at 9am he would have a bucket of cold water over him every day til he gets the message he needs to get up - if he couldnt handle it then he can get the fuck out. his games console would be given to a local charity shop too.

Mwirren Mon 19-Aug-13 17:53:19

I'd drop the games console off at his mum's house. He'd follow it soon enough.

FatPenguin Mon 19-Aug-13 18:13:37

Get rid of the piece of shit, you don't need him in your life.
Keep posting on here. Do you have anyone in RL who can help you?

Vivacia Mon 19-Aug-13 18:33:03

I agree that this sounds a very dysfunctional relationship, but disagree with comments that it's because he's too young. I'm sure most of us can think of men his age, or younger, being great parents.

MrsOakenshield Mon 19-Aug-13 18:45:06

well, I know that a fair few blokes I knew at that age would have been crap dads. But, more importantly, they weren't rapists either.

Jux Mon 19-Aug-13 18:45:43

Do not hesitate to call the police if you feel remotely threatened or scared, either for yourself or the children.

He's a cocklodger. You will do excellently without him dragging you down. You can get your Uni course sorted again, restart and live a full, good life. But not with him.

Oh god. So many amazing people giving sensible advice. So what I'm going to say next is going to let you all down.

I spoke to his mother, and she was happy to "take him back" but urged us to talk. We did talk. I got upset.

Aftet a few minutes he took me upstairs and apologised and had suggested ways he can change. And so I haven't thrown him out. His things will remain in bags, but he is still here.

He said he's going to ditch the ipad in the daytime for a start, and try to control his temper.

How low and desperate must I be, to take all this in and let him stay. I don't feel brilliant for it. I hope he will change, but I'm very dubious.

As for my parents, it was through solicitor's letters but I have no doubt they'd take it to court if I refused contact (they have wealth on their side at least!). My solicitor said they were very likely to get contact based on the fact they'd had a lot of contact with my son (looked after him when I was at uni/had a part time job etc). Its shit.

Oh, re the sex - I've had so, so many shit things happen to me in life that I think I must have an extremely warped view of what is acceptable in a relationship. He'd laugh if I called it rape!

Mwirren Mon 19-Aug-13 19:10:08

I just saw this on another thread nosplash

Men live down to your expectations of men.

This guy forced you to have sex when you didn't want to, so I just want to remind you that just because he feels he's owed another chance doesn't mean that you are obliged to give it to him. His mother doesn't know that he forced you to have sex when you didn't want to.

Carry on "working on yourself" for now. (sounds very LA I know!) If you're still with him for now I think the best way you can make sure that you don't take shit is to go and buy that book, pleaseplease linked to it earlier.

Thank you Mwirren, do need to get this book ordered!

Madlizzy Mon 19-Aug-13 19:19:10

It IS rape though. You have the right to say no to sex in any way, shape or form. He won't change, I promise you that. He'll make an effort for a while, but then he'll slip back into normality and you'll be back where you started. Also, what Mwirren said, you're not obliged to take him back just because he wants you to.

WeAreSeven Mon 19-Aug-13 19:19:35

No more chances for this guy, NoSplash. He must be absolutely on his last warning.

Mwirren Mon 19-Aug-13 19:22:30

I know what you mean about him laughing if you told him he'd raped you. My x had sex with me when tears were rolling down my face. I felt so humiliated, so revolted, so cross with myself for allowing it. I knew he would have laughed if I'd called it rape too.

Don't make the mistake of prioritising his interpretation of an event over your interpretation of an event. It's your prerogative to call forced sex. This is really linked in to self esteem there. If you perceived it to be a dreadful experience that you told him you did not want, then whatever the label, you are entitled to your interpretation of that event. His interpretation of it as conjugal rights and no big deal as you've slept wth him willingly in the past does nOt trump or cancel out your interpretation of it. I hope you see what I mean.

Do you want to sleep with him again? could you bear to? He is the one who is begging for a second chance with you. Don't feel obliged to sleep with a man who you really want to be free from. Please get that book by sherry argov about holding your own in a relationship.

Madlizzy- you're right, I even said this to him ten mins ago. I think he even convinces himself he will change.

Sex is not on my list of priorities. I'm tired and still breastfeeding an almost 9 month old. And I will be saying no. Interesting points about interpretation, Mwirren. I never thought of it like that.

I don't know why I've always put him on such a pedestal... Possibly because my partner before him was even worse, believe it or not. So I mistakenly saw DP as a knight in shining armour. Maybe it was just an illusion.

LoisPuddingLane Mon 19-Aug-13 19:36:42

Conjugal rights my arse. Forced sex is rape, even if you live as if married to the man. If you do not want someone to have sex with you and they do, it is rape. Please don't value yourself so lowly.

It is disappointing that you haven't slung him out, but it's your life. We will probably keep saying it's best you get rid of him though. I suspect there'll be an attempt to change for a few days, then back to normal. Someone who can routinely tell you to shut the fuck up (this is NOT normal behaviour by the way) is not likely to change very much.

If I were you, I would start making some enquiries so that when you do (and it will be WHEN) chuck him out, you have a support network ready.

Snazzyenjoyingsummer Mon 19-Aug-13 19:40:55

Can I suggest another book? Anne Dickson's A Woman In Your Own Right : Assertiveness and You. You can buy a second-hand copy on Amazon. I have read Sherry Argov's book Why Men Love Bitches and it has some good points but I think it takes a slightly different angle to the one that will really help you, as you have said that assertiveness is a big problem for you. Once you feel more comfortable with being assertive you can look at exercising that in a relationship (perhaps a new one...) with the help of Argov or similar.

Mwirren Mon 19-Aug-13 19:44:20

Good that we're making you feel you have the right to view what's going on through your own eyes nosplash. Sorry if it seems like I'm telling you what to think. Because I think that's what he's been doing.
If you challenge him and ask for something he'll react aggressively and that tells you that you have no needs, that you have no right to ask for anything. You've been absorbing these messages even though rationally and intellectually you know you have needs and you have your own judgement.

Mwirren Mon 19-Aug-13 19:48:58

Sounds good Snazzyen, and I will look it up too. I know I feel a bit further along the 'journey' but I am still trying to reinforce the positive messages.

Nagoo Mon 19-Aug-13 19:50:36

You have had some fantastic advice on here.

It's like watching the dawn lighting up across someone's face.

Keep posting.

Mwirren Mon 19-Aug-13 19:57:03

Just put a second hand copy of that book in my basket snazz. They are sold out of new copies! that is a good sign. It gets four and a half stars. Right that's it. I'm buying it. I am also going to start doing EFT again. "even though I have been rejected and judged in the past, I totally and completely love and accept myself. The truth about me is that I'm clever and competent and reasonable and decent and I deserve a job I like". It helped me too. I should have kept going with it.

You come across as a very smart, educated person. I think you'll get there sooner than you think.

tribpot Mon 19-Aug-13 20:01:48

You are drastically minimising how dreadful this man is. I would challenge you to read back through your posts on this thread and read them as if someone else had written them. What would you advise? I very much doubt it would be 'put him on a warning and let his stuff stay in bin bags'.

This charmer has offered to try to control his temper. Big of him. How about getting up with the children before noon, or finding another job, or both?

Good luck, OP. You need it.

SweetSeraphim Mon 19-Aug-13 20:07:56

What tribpot said. And I would listen to her, as she gave me some stellar advice a couple of years ago which helped me with a horrible situation. She's a good egg grin

OP, do what you have to.... but I think you will regret it. I really hope you don't.

LoisPuddingLane Mon 19-Aug-13 20:10:17

The good thing is - you're not alone now. You have some very fierce and compassionate people here cheering you on.

Mwirren Mon 19-Aug-13 20:20:09

cutting and pasting one of the reviews of the book snazz linked to.

I'm looking forward to this book arriving now.

"I love this book. The author lists 11 basic rights. For some people they might seem self-evident but they weren't in my case and putting them into practice changed my view of being in the world quite profoundly.

The rights are:
I have the right to state my own needs and set my own priorities as a person independent of any roles that I may assume in my life
I have the right to be treated with respect as an intelligent capable and equal human being
I have the right to express my feelings
I have the right to express my opinions and values
I have the right to say "yes" or "no" for myself
I have the right to make mistakes
I have the right to change my mind
I have the right to say I don't understand
I have the right to have the right to ask for what I want
I have the right to decline responsibility for other people's problems
I have the right to deal with others without being dependent on them for approval

In relating to other I can be
Passive - giving up my rights
Aggressive - forcing other to give up their rights
Indirect - manipulating others to get what I want
Assertive - Ensuring that my rights are respected as well as respecting the rights of others

I could quote whole passages from the book but if you only wanted to read one chapter then it would have to be, `Saying No'. In my experience being assertive has helped me state who I am as well as acknowledge differences in others. I find it a "a way of being" that genuinely honours both myself and the other person or group I am dealing with. "

WithConfidence Mon 19-Aug-13 20:26:23

Has no-one said it yet? (Apols if so) But get yourself some Lundy Bancroft "Why does he do that?"

It will show you that these men are not like this because they are lazy or whatever. It is because deep down they feel they deserve to do whatever they please and it is in their interests to keep it that way. So it's not in his interest to change. He doesn't want a marriage of equals who respect and cherish each other, he wants a slave.

OrangeDaffodil Mon 19-Aug-13 20:32:21

I'm a man.

I'm young. (30's)

.. but I'm not like this child you describe at all. He sounds like an embarassment and quite revolting.

Instead of wasting your youth with a complete loser, get rid, study if you would like to, gain your health back, focus upon 1 or 2 small dreams, and then hopefully some nice chap out there will be lucky enough to have the opportunity to date a happy, healthy and lovely young woman (YOU!!!).

And please follow the excellent advice offered by the posters here regarding practicalities. AND please take care. There are really some very decent, hard working and kind men out there and they're not all taken. Bet they would love a date with you once this dip stick has scurried off to cash converters to reclaim his joystick. smile

SweetSeraphim Mon 19-Aug-13 20:34:36

<once this dip stick has scurried off to cash converters to reclaim his joystick<

Hahaa grin

"Scurried off to Cash Converters" grin

tell him to ditch the console or you'll first delete all his saved games, you know the ones that got him this or that achievement, the ones he really worked for or you'll cut the bloody plug off.

Life is all about balance.

OrangeDaffodil Mon 19-Aug-13 20:37:58

yes, lots of plonkers near where I live, all with (very small) joysticks, all knocking on the cash converter door.

hope i did an ok job for mankind! (my present gf would shove it where the sun doesn't shine if i were like this boy) -good for her too!

froubylou Mon 19-Aug-13 20:41:45

Please don't continue in this relationship.

To be honest he can't be happy either living like that. You are worth so much more than a half life caring for your children and pandering to a man who has no respect for you or himself.

It will be hard at first but it will get easier I promise.

Look into doing some more studying. Even if it is via OU at first. You may get some help with fees etc. I'm sure they do an access course to ease you back into studying.

LoisPuddingLane Mon 19-Aug-13 20:42:30

While he's sleeping tomorrow morning (and you can guarantee that he won't be up any earlier than 10, even if he's on good behaviour), cut all the plugs off his playthings. Throw them away. And then go out...

Mwirren Mon 19-Aug-13 20:48:50

wrt the suggestion of reading the lundy book, I've read that one and it was very good, but when the OP says this

"Fuck, I really am a doormat aren't I. I've "forgiven" him for so much. Lies, humiliation, and a whole lot more. But tbh, I think I hate myself more than I hate him... I'm the one allowing this shit to go on and on and on!"

it is like she's skipped forward a stage. When I left my x I was quite obsessed with why he'd treated me so badly. I was really hung up on that. And this book did help me realise that it was about him. It took me a while to ask myself that really hard question *why did I allow it?". OP gives me the impression here she's not too hung up on analysing why this guy is the way he is. She wants to know why she's putting up with it and fix that. Which is brilliant OP. At 24 you're more self-aware than I was at 35

Mwirren Mon 19-Aug-13 20:51:34

orangedaffodil oddly enough I have never thought that all men were like my x. My Dad, uncles, male cousins, friends' husbands, they are all decent men, so I knew that my x was exceptionally horrible and yet I still stayed with him so I never thought he was representative of All Men! So, why did I put up with it for as long as I did/ must have felt exceptionally worthless I guess.

OrangeDaffodil Mon 19-Aug-13 20:53:17

Like the idea of Lois, but nothing will upset him more than if you spend the next few days talking to the benefits people, the University people, charities, support networks etc, truly finding out your financial options and opportunities and then saying 'I don't need you any more'.. 'goodbye'...

don't waste a millisecond on trivial things, focus upon the big stuff. He's horrid. You aren't. He seems to need you in an unhealthy way. Trust me, you don't need him.

Empower yourself by having all the facts at your disposal. It's like when a person is ill, it's so much better to know the 'deal'.... I have a sneaky feeling that the ladies here who have talked about Uni's being far more financially open to single mums are spot on.

Wow, imagine how much of a waste of space he would feel once you've really made some positive decisions.... Imagine who you might meet on a course??

He will then be really stuck with his petite joystick and all alone!!!!!

Vivacia Mon 19-Aug-13 20:53:57

well, I know that a fair few blokes I knew at that age would have been crap dads. But, more importantly, they weren't rapists either.

I think you misunderstood my point oakenshield. I was saying that he's not a rapist shit because he's young. Ie there's no cause and effect due to age.

Vivacia Mon 19-Aug-13 20:55:20

NoSplash don't worry about disappointing anyone here. You don't owe any of us a thing. These things you're dealing with - they're big and I believe that working through these is a process which is going to take longer than 24 hours. I echo the advice to keep posting and thinking things through.

Vivacia Mon 19-Aug-13 20:55:44

Meant to ask too, what does your nickname mean?

boldlittlebird Mon 19-Aug-13 20:56:00

Hi nosplash - please don't hate yourself for not being able to leave your partner straight away. Don't get me wrong - in my opinion, from what you've written, the other ladies posting here are absolutely correct - he has behaved appallingly and you deserve much, much better than him. However, speaking as someone who had been through an emotionally abusive childhood (your mum's words sound familiar), I know the kind of toxic self-loathing and self-doubt that that breeds, and I imagine you're probably criticising yourself brutally for not being able to make that leap straight away.

You haven't failed.

Recovery takes time, as does strength. Maybe you couldn't do it this time, but you can do it the next time, or the time after; it's not that you're weak or despicable, it's that you need time to get used to really feeling and thinking for yourself. I know what it feels like not to be able to tell the difference between your genuine self and what abusive others tell you you are.

You can do this. If you can possibly do it, I would absolutely recommend counselling or psychotherapy (I've done both, and it was absolutely life-changingly wonderful and not at all scary). If not, then reading will absolutely help. I found reading around my childhood problems helped resolve the present-day 'symptoms' of it: low self-esteem, anxiety, depression etc. 'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward is a good starter.

I can hear from your writing that you're funny, clever and determined, and that's just on a screen smile You're a survivor, and like lots and lots of us who've gone through crappy beginnings, you've got a wonderful rest of your life ahead of you. It will be better than this, and you can make it that way.

ps - I love your nickname. I once heard an aftershave seller shouting that in a club toilet, along with 'No Armani, no punani', and 'No spray, no lay' grin

OrangeDaffodil Mon 19-Aug-13 20:56:53

Am I allowed to say 'petite joystick' but mean something else on mn?????

Must go.... ladies to save (or maybe it's my dinner in the oven) .. that ready meal really needs saving/a miracle/a priest offering last rites..

Yes, it's Freudian or something wink

Vivacia Mon 19-Aug-13 21:01:34

Nevermind about the nickname. I Googled and apparently it does mean what I feared it meant.

Shyer Mon 19-Aug-13 21:26:13

Tbh, I'd work on yourself before you start on your partner. Anyway, if your eldest (albeit not his) DC is 4 or 5, yr DP must have known what was on the cards since he was 17 or 18. And not much has happened from him, has it.

You might be scared to bin him in case you don't get another man - a lot of single childless people are scared of not getting a man too (a lot aren't, incidentally).

But you won't get a man with him around, either. He's doing you no good.

You might have to face the fact that a lot of 22 year old men simply aren't up for 3 kids and the lifestyle of someone 20 years older. Most 22 year old women wouldn't be either. Honestly, the last thing I would do now is consider another child, and the first thing would be to get a job.

SweetSeraphim Mon 19-Aug-13 21:31:17

boldlittlebird are you in Cheshire??

LuisSuarezTeeth Mon 19-Aug-13 22:09:07

OP I know what you are doing, I did it too.

You kind of have to reverse a bit to get a run-up to the track. So that when you go, you have the momentum to keep going.

We'll be here to catch you.

BTW my ex was either on IV facebook, Twat-Box or glued to the TV. Jeremy Kyle was a favourite - he regarded it as a documentary grin

Wow. Certainly didn't expect this much response/advice when I posted. So thank you. If I do end up leaving him I WILl require you lot on here telling me I've done the right thing!

It's also been so strange having so many 'compliments'; I'm blush DP does sing my praises but they're mostly of a sexual tone(!), it's like he has minimal interest in the intelligent, caring and ambitious woman I know I was, and can be.

Will seriously consider reapplying to uni at some point (I often think about this anyway), and yes the nickname is apparently something nightclub toilet aftershave sellers shout at men!

Also had a smile about Cash Converters. God you're all so right though, he'll never get rid of that thing! He didn't actually have it when we met...

Currently in bed giving DD2 her morning feed, DP thinks he will get up at 8-8:30... I'm so bloody pessimistic but I can't see this lasting. And now it'll be even harder to chuck him out because he will think I've actually lost the plot.

Oh and guess what? According to his mum I'm "difficult to live with" because - wait for it - I'm so insecure!

Is it any wonder really? Of course I was when I met him, but I'm pretty sure a lot of his behaviour has made me feel worse! Rant over smile

alwaysinamuckingfuddle Tue 20-Aug-13 07:23:36

Jesus, what a waste of space.

Loads of brilliant advice here though so best of luck, OP.

tribpot Tue 20-Aug-13 07:35:41

You've been starved of affection, OP. Which is what makes you accept these crumbs (I don't think compliments of a sexual nature are really meant to compliment you, just remind you what you're there for). The comments of his mum, which are inevitably partisan, should be counter-balanced by the comments of your mum but that won't be happening in this case.

You know yourself, his behaviour is not acceptable. You don't need his mum to agree with you.

You can and should get back to uni. Think about why you regard it as negative, as 'crawling back', when in fact your lecturers said they would welcome you back with open arms. A whole host of things in your past (and present) are messing with your perceptions of your own self-worth. That is very, very unlikely to change until you remove the source of 'infection'.

itried Tue 20-Aug-13 07:49:44

Withdraw your services from him - he may be depressed but he is using you. No meals for him or washing etc. Be civil to him but firm and say you will re-engage when he does so i.e. when he becomes a participant in family life. Maybe a big relief if he goes back to his parents - you won't see him in the shop as I expect his mother will go for him. Is his father like this? It is learned behaviour, so he can unlearn it!

Tribpot- starved of affection. As you probably know, you've hit the nail right on the head. My friends can only do so much, but knowing that I should be able to go to my mum at such a tough time kills me. Even if I did still speak to her I know she'd blame me for the situation and probably even take DP's side. She has serious form for that. When an ex cheated on me at 17 I "drove him to it", apparently. Thank you mum.

I'm trying to take MIL's comments with a pinch of salt. After all, she's not the one having to put up with this.

Now I have a genuine question, but I'm worried it might offend. Please don't think it's meant to. Basically... I wouldn't say DP is of great intelligence. My question is... For those of you who would describe him as abusive, wouldn't he need to be quite clever to be so? For example, if you're going to control/manipulate someone, wouldn't you have to know what you're doing? I've always thought be just wouldn't have the capacity to be an abusive twat. Lazy, yes. Thoughtless sometimes, yes. But abusive? I'm not sure.

And for the lady who suggested Women's Aid... I've thought about this, but they were involved with me before, when I was with awful ex. My (lovely) key worker informed me that they can't give more than two years' support (unless you're still in trouble, of course) and by the time my two years was up, I was with DP and to the outside world deliriously happy. So I'm not sure i can even go back there, plus I'd be very embarrassed.

He just*

Itried - 'relief' is the right word. In a strange way I was quite looking forward to him going, although I'm terrified he'll go back to his party lifestyle and actually enjoy being away from me. And if he met someone else... Well, I can't even stomach that thought.

That's quite amusing though about mummy going to he shop for him. And yes, apparently when he was a child his dad was very shouty and his mum did all of the housework and childcare! He's not that bad, but it does annoy me that he's learned that behaviour to some extent.

Lweji Tue 20-Aug-13 08:02:22

He doesn't have to be intelligent to be abusive.
My exH was somewhat limited.
They just need to be lazy, violent, selfish, childish, careless.

We do the rest. We hang up to little shreds of hope.
We give them the benefit of the doubt, we believe their good intentions and their apologies.

Never mind what he will think. You need nobody's permission to end a relationship.

Do contact WA. This is a different situation, and you do need help.

LoisPuddingLane Tue 20-Aug-13 08:05:37

* wouldn't he need to be quite clever to be so?*

No. I know it's a fictional character but think of Bill Sykes in Oliver Twist. Not the sharpest tool in the box but very controlling and abusive. I don't know how the brain works, but I'm fairly sure stupid people can be just as abusive as clever people.

Lweji Tue 20-Aug-13 08:06:17

although I'm terrified he'll go back to his party lifestyle and actually enjoy being away from me. And if he met someone else... Well, I can't even stomach that thought.

This is about you and control.

You want him punished and under your wing. Release the twat and you will find yourself free.

LoisPuddingLane Tue 20-Aug-13 08:06:40

Also, think of someone like Fred West. Not really an intelligent bloke, but those who met him said he could be charming. He was clearly manipulative, and very dangerous.

LoisPuddingLane Tue 20-Aug-13 08:07:44

If he should go back to his party lifestyle and meet someone, what would you be losing? Really?

Thank you Lweji, that's cleared it up quite nicely!

I never thought he was abusive because he doesn't try to stop me going out, in fact he actively encourages it. However, I've just realised something. I rarely bloody go out, so he has no need to try to stop me! Throughout our whole relationship I've either been pregnant or breastfeeding, so I've probably been out without him, and got extremely drunk, about three times. In 3 years. And I'm 24. Christ.

LoisPuddingLane Tue 20-Aug-13 08:11:01

Don't worry, you have the rest of your life to get shitfaced and eat MacDonalds on the way home. When I finally got to go out I went a bit nuts I think.

Lois- thank you, you've been very helpful! Fred West analogy has opened my eyes somewhat... If he met someone else I guess I'd be losing face... He's the cool party guy with a new girlfriend and I'm the loser stuck at home. But then, I really don't know why I'm so preoccupied with what other people think. I've always been that way.

Haha that sounds like my ideal night out, especially the McDonald's! I have to make this happen and stop making excuses and staying in all the time... One day

LoisPuddingLane Tue 20-Aug-13 08:15:56

But just think what his new girlfriend will have to put up with. No doubt he'd knock her up quite quickly to keep her "in her place" and then carry on as normal.

LoisPuddingLane Tue 20-Aug-13 08:16:42

haha I only ever eat MacDonalds when I'm pissed. It's the kebab equivalent for me.

Lweji Tue 20-Aug-13 08:17:29

You will never be the loser.
You are (eventually) on your way to a degree and higher earnings.
You have your children who love you.
You will take control and kick him out.
You will be happy in your home. You will see when you get rid.

He'll be the one with no job.
The father who doesn't care about the children.
The one living with mummy.

I'd pity any new girlfriends.

Vivacia Tue 20-Aug-13 09:01:03

Neither "So that I'm not a loser at home" nor "to stop him being with someone else" are on my list of reasons why I'm with my partner.

Mwirren Tue 20-Aug-13 09:28:55

Agree with the others, although it feels unfair at first when they first get a babe on their arm, you will envy his freedom more than you envy her. It's probably the injustice that will bite. That he gets to go and have fun while you are holding the fort. But there is more integrity for you there, you always were holding the fort, so that inevitability (him returning to a party life and pulling the birds) would show why the relationship ended.

Do not worry what his mother thinks either. My xmil thought I was lazy and selfish and blah blah blah. I think she knows now mind you. Not that she'd ever apologise.

During the last few years, whenever my x has briefly been with somebody he's been more cheerful, less awkward, less self-pitying......... so I like it when he meets somebody else. Although, to begin with when I had such young kids and he was as free as a bird it was hard. I was't jealous of his new girlfriends, I was jealous of his freedom! That passes though. I have enough distance now not to compare myself to him. It just no longer occurs to me.

I guess I pity him now. I know he's learnt nothing. You are living and learning (which is how I learnt all my lessons too! argh!) but, betcha anything he emerges from this experience labelling you a callous bitch and goes back to mammy and learns precisely nothing. Mammy will stroke his paw and feed his delusions about how it was so hard for him etc..... so you will have to disconnect yourself from what they think. Again, their interpretation of the event of your breakup (when that happens) will never be parallel with yours. But you can cope with that because what they think of you is none of your business!!!!!

Mwirren Tue 20-Aug-13 09:31:14

ps, I know it's easy to type "don't worry what his mother thinks" but I know that when your self-esteem is a bit battered, that can be just another bullet, another punch in the gut. It was for me. But, you know what, she knows NOW.

boldlittlebird Tue 20-Aug-13 13:25:08

Hi sweetseraphim, I'm in the southwest. Why Cheshire?

LuisSuarezTeeth Tue 20-Aug-13 21:12:25

Hey Splash, just checking in. Sorry I haven't been here today, another 12 hour day.

My ex has gone straight to another woman (or 2 if certain reports are to be believe).

Of course I feel weird about it. But this was my thought process:

The cow! How dare she?
I wonder what he's told her?
God I hope he's not doing the same to her...
Shit! Should I tell her? It really seems she doesn't know!
You know what? She is welcome to him! Would I ever want the abusive, lazy, disrespectful, misery-inducing, sponging, pathetic excuse for a human being back? NO.

Because I DESERVE BETTER, as does my child.

And now I'm kind of...not bothered and thinking about the future - mine, not his. Hard days, easy days, regrets, joy, ENDLESS reliving of the past.

To be honest, if he does find another woman, it doesn't matter. It is you, your children and his responsibility as a father that matter.

Um, sorry for that, bit waffly. Still here for you.

Luis- you weren't waffly at all. It's just crazy knowing that even one person is thinking of me. So thank you.

I'm soooo glad that you're feeling more positive about your situation now. The in-between bit is so shit!

Yesterday was ok; he looked for jobs, I think applied for one, got up at a more reasonable time, did a fair amount of housework, left the iPad upstairs, started running again in preparation for the forces...

But I just hope you're all going to be here for me in a few days/weeks/months, because I'm almost certain this change won't last.

Br0na Wed 21-Aug-13 10:03:54

We will be. This particular thread might sink, but if you post update on the xbox lazy fucker, we'll know it's you! I name change often.

He may be behaving himself a bit better right now so it complicates the dynamic. He may well feel absolutely entitled to a clean slate from the moment he is less lazy and sexually abusive.

I bet if you indicated that you needed time to figure out whether or not his clean slate meant jack shit or not, things could sour in a moment.

All of the things you need to figure out are inside your own private space, your head. So, whether or not you want him is the issue. Not whether or not he believes you ought to. Whether or not you can put up with him, not whether or not he believes you are worse, or you made your bed, or blah blah blah..............whether or not you can over look the forced sex is another issue not whether or not he believes t was no big deal, so, whether or not you want to stay, or leave, or make changes........ all of that is what's probably going on in your head?

What he feels entitled to, what he thinks of it all, that's not your main business. Try to drown out the commentary of his voices, his needs. I hope I'm making sense. I know I could hardly think straight with the cacophony of voices shouting out his entitlements, his needs, his mind set.

Br0na- that is a good point that I actually hadn't considered; I'm certain that if I said to him today "Sorry, I need more time to think, maybe you should go to your mum's" he would instantly flip back into "What the fuck? You're crazy, whatever Splash, fuck off!"

Hmm not great is it? And haha, will be sure to use the phrase "lazy fucker" if I ever have to make a new thread!

Lweji Wed 21-Aug-13 10:34:49

You need to have very clear in your mind what the threshold will be to send him on his way.
And stick to it.

Lweji- the problem I have with "threshold" is that I'm more concerned with what he, or even just the general public, would think.

For example if he lays in bed again until 12 and ignores my pleas for help then I would want him out. But I wouldn't be able to do it, because I don't want him, or anybody else, to think "You threw him out over a lay-in? confused"

He worked away at the beginning of the year, and it as blissful (apart from the sudden abundance of spiders!). But everyone used to ask me pitifully how I'm coping, as it must be so hard on my own with three kids, and I used to say "Actually... It's easier without four!"

I WILL be confident again.

Vivacia Wed 21-Aug-13 10:49:23

I'm sorry, I can't let this go. Why did you choose that username?

Lweji Wed 21-Aug-13 10:55:11

You must tell him what your threshold is.
And then there are no pleas and no feigning surprise.
Because one will become 2 and then 3 and so on.
If you ask for help he must get up, no arguments and no excuses.
And so on.

And...
You don't need an excuse to end the relationship. You don't have to justify yourself.
You just need to want out.

Thank you Lweji, that does make more sense. I'm a rubbish boundary setter. Need to be more assertive!

Vivacia - it was just something an aftershave seller shouted at DP and his friends on a night out and I found it quite amusing, this was about 14 months ago mind but I've only just started posting

Vivacia Wed 21-Aug-13 11:30:10

Thanks for taking the time to explain. I guess it's a difference in taste/humour but I find it really offensive. Shudders

Br0na Wed 21-Aug-13 12:31:10

yes nosplash so in fact things will only ever be calm if you put up and shut up, so to speak. So even though you might slightly feel that you're in control now, having asserted that you wish to raise the bar, in fact, he is still in control because you can't challenge him. You MUST forgive him or there will be aggression. I'm not saying that you could have done anything any differently!! my own break up came after a long series of my trying to raise the bar, draw a line in the sane, demanding respect........... I think all he ever heard was white noise. He used to compliment me for being "nice" when I didn't have the will the challenge him. The 'me' that he liked best was a me that didn't exist. It was a creature that had had the chutzpah vacuumed out of her by all the other pointless aggressive rows that had lead nowhere in the past, so that me that just plodded along on autopilot, that was the me he liked.

hope i'm not going off on a tangent here. this was my x after all.

What lweji says really resonates now. I never explain, justify or defend. NOW. But that is where my brain is now. It has taken me years to get to this point.

Br0na Wed 21-Aug-13 12:34:37

I don't know if you can make a man like this who has a history of not showing you any respect at all suddenly start respecting you. :-/

I think he might be motivated to fake that respect if it is the most convenient thing for him to do in the short term.

But never mind really, your journey here is a private one I think. I always read that quote "what you think of me is none of my business" when somebody upsets me. It really helps me.

LuisSuarezTeeth Wed 21-Aug-13 20:31:37

Still here Splash, hope you're ok. X

Well, I'm back, so as you can probably guess, I'm not good.

DP was going to some bbq/drinks/gathering thing this weekend - planned for a while. However when he got there on Friday (its only up the road), I think he must have felt a bit of a twat cos everyone else had brought their kids. He asked if he could take the older two on Saturday, I said they'll love it.

He took them, brought them back for bed at 7 then went back again to (I'm guessing) get very drunk. Before he went, he said DS had loved it and could he take him back on Sunday? I said yes, good idea, and he said he'll pick him up at 1.

So today I told DS (he got excited) and then planned our whole morning around this. I made sure he was fed, watered and ready to go.

Only he didn't fucking turn up did he.

DS is only 4 (nearly 5) but was clearly angry and shouted at me. All I could say was "He'll be here soon"...

"D"P waltzed in at 2pm, not apology or explanation. I asked why he wasn't home for 1.

"I went to play football and couldn't let you know because my phone died."

"If your phone died why didn't you not play football then so you would be back to pick him up?"

"Errr.. Because I wanted to play football."

And this is the crux of it. What he wants, when he wants and this time it affected DS. He doesn't give a shit, does he? He's like a sulky teenager being "told off" by his mum (me) and I can't. Fucking. Stand. It.

I'm crying now.

Vivacia Sun 25-Aug-13 15:04:19

Now your son's hurting, are you less bothered about appearances?

Where are you now and what's your partner doing? Lots of people here to support you.

As soon as (let's call him T, for twat) turned up, DS was happy and all was forgotten. The girls were excited to see him. And I'm left bubbling with resentment.

T is now at the party/whatever it is, I'm at home wondering why I'm so pathetic.

As lots of you may already know, there aren't many things worse than having the person who should cherish you make you feel like shit. I've had it with my family and every partner I've ever had. I hate him, and I hate myself, just want to disappear because he isn't going to.

Vivacia Sun 25-Aug-13 15:28:48

Would you like some time apart?

I'm too scared to suggest it because I think he'll agree... I can't cope with rejection at all

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Sun 25-Aug-13 15:53:02

The way he treats you now is a form of rejection. The only difference would be that with him gone you could focus on making yourself happy and strong.

I never thought I would be happy again after I came out of an abusive relationship. I thought no one would want me, a young single mum.

Turns out I was completely wrong. I am very happy and have met an amazing man who treats me well smile

Anything is possible when you focus on yourself and your own well being.

tribpot Sun 25-Aug-13 16:34:49

he took me upstairs and apologised and had suggested ways he can change

And so presumably when he wandered back in after an entire weekend of partying, you pointed out this was one of the ways that he not only could change but had to change if he wished to remain in a relationship with you?

My guess is no, because you feel too scared to rock the boat again so soon - he will make out that you are never satisfied because he did something off his own pick list of 'things to make you happy' one time in the week.

You have had far too many disappointments for such a young life and it has left you appallingly vulnerable to this kind of parasitic twat. But you can make a better choice for yourself. You have three children to raise - you do not need excess baggage.

Vivacia Sun 25-Aug-13 16:37:45

Ok, so if you want to stay with him, what are you going to do next? Try talking about change again or just put up with him?

Lweji Sun 25-Aug-13 16:42:09

You don't cope with rejection.

If you decide to call it off, you are not being rejection.

You wish he loved you enough to do whatever he can to keep you.

But he doesn't. Face it.

Lweji Sun 25-Aug-13 16:44:02

Not being rejected...

Tribpot - yeh that's right, I don't want to rock the boat, as it were. He'll make me feel like I'm crazy because he's been so good all week.. And I can imagine the old: "So I can't play football with my mates now then?" will be brought out. When I'm mad at him I'm short tempered with the kids. This is yet another thing I hate myself for but I can't guarantee that leaving him will solve this because I'll be on a whole new level of heartbreak.

Vivacia - I doubt he'll want to talk because its less than a week since our last talk. And so I'll have to put up with it. All I can think to do is try to blank him all night. But I can't do it. I'm so chatty and bubbly and I don't want to keep it in.

I keep fantasising about being with, say, a solicitor (I'd love to work in Law!.) Its not just the money but the security, maturity, intelligence, motivation and amibition of such a man. I know that sounds bloody awful but I've just lost all respect for him, especially since he drunkenly admitted on my birthday to taking coke behind my back a number of times and then lying about it.. Even four weeks before I was due to give birth.

I must attract these "men" with my pathetic vulnerability.

Lweji- I know, you're right, and it hurts so much. Why the fuck can't he treat me with love and respect?

I admit, I used to be a bit of a bitch and had an awful self-destruct mode which meant I could be pretty horrible, to boyfriends in particular. (Thanks for another fantastically useful lesson in life, Mother.)

But with him... I changed. I loved and respected him and never lied and looked after him. Encouraged his dreams and hid my jealousy as best I could. I even paid for as much counselling as I could afford 18 months ago (only 4 sessions sadly).

All this and he's still a cunt to me. Fuck's sake.

Lweji Sun 25-Aug-13 17:09:25

For what is worth, solicitors are not necessarily better than him.

It seems like you had your barriers up and let them down for this man, but he's not worth it.

You will find someone who will, but not while you are with him. Sorry.

Lweji- I know, I know. That's me just daydreaming but luckily I'm not naïve to think a "successful" man would necessarily make me happy.

Children aside, I think I wish I'd never met him. I honestly don't know how I'm going to get out of this one.

I was in a similar situation with my ex before T. No one ever thought I'd leave him. But I did, and never looked back. However we didn't have babies together, or a house, and he lived a good 30 minutes away.

T knows full well that with his name on our daughters' birth certificates he has full rights to be involved with them, even if he doesn't exercise this right (ie he was an hour late today because football was more important).

I'm jumpy enough as it is and I'd constantly be worried he was going to turn up or something.

I feel sad, stupid and trapped and I'm going to be stuck in this cycle forever, aren't I?

Vivacia Sun 25-Aug-13 17:58:01

security, maturity, intelligence, motivation and ambition

You could find this in a man of any employment, you just need to get out there looking!

How do you feel about spending the rest of your life with T? When I imagine it with my partner I feel gratitude, hopeful and kind of light.

Vivacia Sun 25-Aug-13 17:59:13

I'm going to be stuck in this cycle forever, aren't I?

You can break it as soon as you're ready, don't feel any pressure before then.

Vivacia - good point, I never saw it from that angle. Always imagined someone with good qualities would have money - wow, its just occurred to me that that's what my parents led me to believe. They had money, and didn't want me to end up with someone "working class", as it were - even if he made me happy.

Ok, I'm thinking now of the rest of my life with him. It doesn't feel good sad for a start, I really really want to get married, but I feel like I'll NEVER be able to unless I paid for the whole fucking thing myself. He never saves. I have a rainy day account, and accounts for the kids that I pay into monthly. He has nothing of the kind.

Also he's been violent more times than I care to remember, and people always say this gets worse. Great.

He'll be back later no doubt in a good mood because he's with friends, but I won't be allowed to be annoyed with him because that's classed as "carrying it on".

Vivacia Sun 25-Aug-13 18:38:02

I really really want to get married, but I feel like I'll NEVER be able to unless I paid for the whole fucking thing myself

That sounds more like you want a wedding than you want a marriage.

Also he's been violent more times than I care to remember,

How does this violence manifest itself?

tribpot Sun 25-Aug-13 19:03:54

Paying for the wedding yourself would not be a problem if this was the right guy. But I find the fact you could even still consider marrying him disturbing under the circumstances - and evidence I think that you are locked into some very negative thinking. If Women's Aid have a limit on their timeframe for helping you, I would ask them if they can suggest somewhere else you can turn. You badly need to escape from the mindset where you deserve this - or where nothing will be better.

If you leave him, for example, he won't be entitled to come and go as he pleases in your house simply because he shares PR for your children. Any more than you would be free to come and go in his. You would be two independent adults (albeit 'adult' is pushing it in his case) who co-parent.

You can get out of this.

Lweji Sun 25-Aug-13 19:26:12

Also he's been violent more times than I care to remember,

This would merit an immediate LTB.

You can reach your limit when you want to. No need to explain or justify yourself or discuss it. Just remember that.

Snazzyenjoyingsummer Sun 25-Aug-13 20:33:21

If he's violent as well as all the rest, then regardless of how difficult it might seem, you will be better off without him. Imagine how awful it will be when the kids get older and become aware of all this. Don't put yourself or them through that.

LuisSuarezTeeth Mon 26-Aug-13 06:52:25

Splash, the violence is more than enough.

Stop turning this in on yourself. It's NOT YOU.

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