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Massive row feel like I've been battered

(454 Posts)
Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 20:05:16

I have written a few threads on here as I struggle with this relationship I'm in, or was in. I find it hard to explain how I feel and the hold he has had over me. Slowly the fog is lifting but I still feel there is some hold there and I don't know why and don't understand myself

I've had a horrible experience today and really need to talk but am to ashamed to speak to anyone in RL. Had a lovely day out with'DP' and when we visited his sister she asked what his stbxw was doing today. I know I can be touchy about this sometimes but it annoys me that she is always brought up and I said so to DP on the way home. BIG mistake! All I really wanted was for him to say he understands its annoying for me and maybe that he finds it a bit irritating too. But oh no a huge row starts and as always his way of trying to shut me up and shut the argument/ discussion down is to say " finish with me then". So sick of hearing this I said fine.

We got back to mine, he packed his stuff, some nasty things were said. I have paid a non returnable deposit £400 for a holiday and he had given me his share which I hadn't banked yet and he demanded it back. I had to give it as he was looking through my drawers. He starts to drive off but keeps coming in and put with various excuses. Then he phoned his sister in front of me on loudspeaker and told her all that had happened making himself the innocent party of course. I still feel in shock with it all. I've never had a row with anyone like that and to involve a third party like that I don't know what he's trying to do. I know it's a totally dysfunctional relationship. I feel emotionally battered and bruised yet numb at the same time. He keeps trying to phone but I won't answer. I'm a mess. Don't really know what I want people to say I just had to get it out.

Earthworms Sat 03-Aug-13 20:08:31

Sounds like a lucky escape....

Someone wise will be along soon.

ImperialBlether Sat 03-Aug-13 20:11:19

Well, while the speaker phone was on, you should have shouted, "Your brother is a despicable twat and you are a shit stirring bitch and I never want to see either of you again."

Seriously, OP, you haven't lost a thing. You've gained your freedom and the chance of a happy life.

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 20:13:21

He was reeling off to his sister a list of my faults and all our relationship problems as well as telling her what I said about her enquiring about stbxw. I feel mortified why would he do that. I feel sick and am shaking. I am also going to loose £400 deposit and when I told him I can't afford this he said all I think about is money. What am I going to do

knickernicker Sat 03-Aug-13 20:14:16

He's vile and sounds very.immature. can you see yourself with him when you're old and grey. Will you say that this wonderful man has been your rock? Of corsr you won't. Take strong decisive action and don.t take him back.

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 20:15:21

Was I wrong to say it was not appropriate for sister to be asking this?

SlimePrincess Sat 03-Aug-13 20:15:45

Let him go and resist the urge to contact him.

He sounds like an utter shit.

SlimePrincess Sat 03-Aug-13 20:16:45

No you we're not wrong. His sister was stirring.

HellonHeels Sat 03-Aug-13 20:17:48

He sounds awful. How long were you together?

I think you've dodged a bullet here. I'd advise not getting back with him. Can you go on the holiday with someone else?

knickernicker Sat 03-Aug-13 20:17:59

Can you go to someone's to stay? You poor thing. At the mercy of this ridiculous man baby.

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 20:18:53

Family are close to stbxw and I'm not bothered by that I just didn't want her brought up like that ffs. Is that wrong? He told sis on phone that I was obsessed with her and listed stuff I said and did which made me sound like a nutter

LEMisdisappointed Sat 03-Aug-13 20:19:02

Have you given him the money? if you have, then you will have to probably suck that up but if you haven't don't give it to him. Tell him to fuck off and live with sister, really, lucky escape - he is vile

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 20:21:17

Oh god thanks for your replies they are making me cry because someone understands and I feel really alone. I have no single friends that could go with me I really don't know what to do

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 20:22:57

I had to give the money he was going through my drawers to find it and he wouldn't have gone till he found it. I feel sick at the way he's treated me 4 yrs we've been together

SlimePrincess Sat 03-Aug-13 20:39:46

Then don't give him anymore opportunities to treat you badly, you deserve better.

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Sat 03-Aug-13 20:45:07

Don't waste another 4 years of your life with someone who trests you like shit.
You can't get years back, trust me, and life is shorter than you think.

MNiscold Sat 03-Aug-13 20:46:04

I understand your feeling that you cannot afford to lose the money, but if 400 is all you lose.... you're getting off cheaply!! Can you imagine the cost of an actual divorce, with maybe a mortgage, etc.? I once "loaned" a partner around 3000 and when we broke up did not get it back, but I still think I got off cheaply; don't have to put up with him and won't have to pay for solicitor! Could you look at it that way? Would that help?

He does sound like a piece of work, actually. You gave him 4 years to shape up.... that's more than enough. Count yourself lucky, indeed.

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 20:46:56

I can't cope anymore I can't even see for certain that he's treated me badly tonight. On one level I know he has then on another I think I shouldn't have said that about the remark his sister made. Also I have so much on my plate I feel like I'm cracking up. Am just going through a divorce and its costing me a fortune he knows this and won't even give me his share of the lost deposit. He made me feel bad because I want even talking about it on here I am worrying that you might think I'm money orientated because I've mentioned it

Viking1 Sat 03-Aug-13 20:47:02

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 20:51:32

This is abuse yes? See I can't even think clearly. A decent man wouldn't behave that way under any provocation would they? Apparently it was all I wouldn't " drop it"

Ledkr Sat 03-Aug-13 20:52:36

Quite honestly even if you were just feeling a bit jealous thn he should have understood this and been more sympathetic.
How he chose to behave was ridiculous and ott and you should think about what you want.
Fwiw my exh was seeing someone else and when I found out we had a holiday booked.
I paid forty quid and changed the name to my sisters and we had a lovely time without him.
You'll survive without him.
The only way is up.

SlimePrincess Sat 03-Aug-13 20:57:26

That remark by his sister was made very deliberately to wind you up. If his family are so close to tne XW, why didn't his sister just ask her hersel? If she was so fucking interested.

Decent men don't act like this but he isn't decent man is he?

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 21:00:46

ledkr apparently it's me that's totally over the top and won't let things drop. I'm sure that's not the case as I often water down what I want to say precisely because of his reactions. I still can't believe he rang the sister it's like he has to make himself RIGHT and prove it and get people on side all the time. Other people shouldn't be involved.

I can't see any way back from this but I don't know how il manage without him. I despise myself for saying that.

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 21:02:19

slime that's exactly what I said to him if sis is so interested why doesn't she just txt her and ask. But nobody especially his family can do any wrong. It's always me that's wrong

cozietoesie Sat 03-Aug-13 21:03:14

You may not feel lucky right at this moment, but you really are. That bullet has sped on past and is now heading into the blue yonder.

And for what it's worth. You haven't actually lost his share of the £400, you've lost a holiday - which could well have been awful in any case. (In your mind, put what you would have paid on top of the deposit yourself towards the loss and plan what you're going to do yourself, more cheaply, with the glorious free time you now have.)

Stay strong. You're well shot of him.

HellonHeels Sat 03-Aug-13 21:04:24

Oh you sound so upset, poor you sad Four years of being treated badly (and it is abusive IMO) no wonder you feel confused and can't see plainly how horrible he is being.

Going through your things to find the money is just vile. I know £400 is a lot but it's a small price to pay to get rid of him. Stay strong - you deserve so much better than this.

MissStrawberry Sat 03-Aug-13 21:04:54

You have to stop taking this idiot back. You will manage without him as he isn't the one providing you with oxygen. He brings nothing to your life but drama.

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 21:05:33

I don't want to sound pathetic but please can someone spell put to me what they think was wrong in what happened today. Just so I can read it digest it and let it sink in, because I've lost all perspective of what's normal

RunningInFlipflops Sat 03-Aug-13 21:06:06

His sister shouldn't have mentioned his ex in front of you, she was so obviously stirring! I would have been pissed off too, and definitely would have mentioned it. You have done nothing wrong op, stay strong- he is the one at fault!

Hassled Sat 03-Aug-13 21:06:06

You've been together 4 years and she's not even the XW yet - she's still the Soon to Be XW? No wonder it's a sore point with you - why hasn't he divorced her in the last 4 years?

He sounds like a shit and you're well out of it. I know it will be a long while before you're able to see it like that, but you will, I promise. And in the meantime you'll manage - you'll get support here, and if you can get through just one awful day the next one will seem more copeable with.

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 21:07:05

miss strawberry he creates the drama always. Usually out of the smallest misdemeanour on my part

SlimePrincess Sat 03-Aug-13 21:08:01

It sounds like Stockholm syndrome.

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 21:08:27

running I'm never allowed to mention if I'm pissed off with anything his family may do especially if its to do with the wife.

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 21:09:48

Thank you for your support I really need it. I just hope you don't get fed up of me coming back because I think this is going to be rough

MissStrawberry Sat 03-Aug-13 21:10:42

He may create the drama but he has an audience doesn't he? You are wasting your life in this "relationship."

GilmoursPillow Sat 03-Aug-13 21:11:17

Keep coming back OP, many people are here to help you and see you through the next days, weeks, months.

PatriciaHolm Sat 03-Aug-13 21:12:13

What was wrong today? he was.

He totally over reacted. He was abusive to you, both in arguing endlessly and then calling his sis. Normal, well-adjusted individuals do not shout at their partners over a mild remark such as you made, they don't go through drawers for money and they don't call up others to make their partner feel small. He doesn't care about you, he cares about himself and about Being Right. Because according to him, He Is Always Right, and you - you are Always Wrong.

you are well rid, though i appreciate it probably doesn't feel like it yet. I know its a cliche but have you had a cup of hot tea or something? You've had a big shock and you need to bring yourself down a bit.

RunningInFlipflops Sat 03-Aug-13 21:14:34

Jackie I've just asked my dp and he agrees with me- you should be able to discuss anything with a loving partner that makes you feel uncomfortable. You shouldn't have to worry about being verbally attacked! Don't doubt yourself no matter what he says.

SlimePrincess Sat 03-Aug-13 21:19:00

Here's what I think was wrong about what happened today;

* his sister was being a shit stirring bitch. You expressed that you were uncomfortable and he starting being abusive to you and miminimizing your feelings.
* he then humiliated you in front of his sister.
* then he created a big drama llama scene to make you feel terrified of losing him to try and get you to fall back into line. When he was making excuses to come in and out he was after you falling at his feet and begging him to stay.

SlimePrincess Sat 03-Aug-13 21:21:36

Basically he was showing you who he is (a manipulative, abusive, manchild, cocklodger).

LiveItUp Sat 03-Aug-13 21:28:18

You sound so shocked, and I'm not surprised. You have clearly been in an abusive relationship.

Regards the money, you have not lost £400, you have gained your freedom. Although, on a money note, if you paid £400 and he paid you his share, presumably he only took back his £200. And if you haven't paid the balance, you have probably come out of it better off even if you don't now go away with someone else.

Don't answer his calls. It is not a good way to live. Don't be scared of a life without him. Daunting although it seems at the moment, it will get easier and you will soon realise what a lucky escape you have had.

alwaysinamuckingfuddle Sat 03-Aug-13 21:32:34

He left? You are the luckiest person in the world today!!!

The bloke is a twat.

Do.not.look.back...

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 21:33:40

After he had packed the stuff and taken the money and told me to get it back off my ex husband in my divorce!!? I snapped and pushed him in the back and told him to get out of my house for good and not come back.

He then came back in with his sister on the phone telling her all our business half of which was totally exaggerated. Then he began saying to her how he'd moved away from his kids and friends ect to be with me and his sister was getting upset and apologising to HIM, not sure if it was for what she'd said or whether it was said innocently. I just don't know. And I don't understand the purpose of him ringing her like that. She ended up crying and he's was apologising for upsetting her. It was horrible and like I'm the bad person

Lottapianos Sat 03-Aug-13 21:34:31

Yes, he's emotionally abusive. Please don't worry about feeling messed up and confused, it's perfectly normal after being treated like this. Please stay far away from him - don't answer his calls. It's classic abuser nonsense - storming out, making you feel like the worst person that ever lived, then calling you up for more abuse. By tomorrow he'll probably be begging you to take him back.

You don't need this control freak in your life. As the old MN saying goes, when someone shows you or tells you who they are, listen to them!

Please keep posting OP - lots of hand holding on offer smile

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 21:35:37

No I paid the £400 and I hadn't banked his so he's taken it all. I won't get the £400 back and he said he doesn't care

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 21:39:00

He doesn't give a shit does he? When he was packing today I said I didn't think he could ever have really loved me to behave like this and he said " oh here we go again you always say that" but surely to god you don't treat people you love like that

Lottapianos Sat 03-Aug-13 21:39:50

Honestly OP - I know how utterly gutting it is to let that money go, but it's not worth holding onto any kind of contact with this man. You've told him you can't afford to lose it and he's told you he doesn't care. He doesn't care about you at all sad You don't deserve this.

Lottapianos Sat 03-Aug-13 21:40:38

You're right! You absolutely do not treat people you love like this. This is not love - it's control and abuse and utter hell for you. Be very clear about that.

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 21:44:37

This is why I'm so confused because he behaves like this and yet most of the time he seems to care about me. God what is he about? I don't understand anymore. He has done some truly cruel things in the past as well. Why such a jeckell and Hyde?

MissStrawberry Sat 03-Aug-13 21:45:13

No, you don't but neither do you allow yourself to be treated like shit over and over again if you loved yourself.

but surely to god you don't treat people you love like that

And there you have it. Abusers have a very skewed view of what it is to love someone.

He's a prick. His sister possibly could have been making innocent chit chat but, from experience with dh's arsehole family, it was said to shit stir.

Do you want to spend your whole life like this?

He's given you a way out on a platter. PLEASE take it.

Lottapianos Sat 03-Aug-13 21:46:35

'Why such a jeckell and Hyde?'

Typical abusive behaviour OP. Its like 'come closer so I can hurt you even more next time'. It messes with your head because it's designed to. Stay away from this - you deserve so much better.

Sending you strength thanks

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 21:48:24

It's as though I had no right at all to be annoyed by what his sister said. His first response was " I don't know why she said it" then apparently I was blaming him for something she said! I told him all I wanted was for him to show he understood how it made me feel. He snapped that he did and how did I think HE felt knowing that I'd be annoyed

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 21:51:16

miss strawberry obviously I don't love myself then I've had my mind totally messed with

Lottapianos Sat 03-Aug-13 21:54:02

You're never allowed to have your own feelings when you're around emotionally abusive people. You're always wrong unless your'e doing what you're told. And it's never their fault. Ever.

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 22:00:19

I don't think it's the case that I don't love myself. It's not just people with low self esteem who don't think they are worth much that find themselves in an abusive relationship is it?

I actually do think I'm an ok person but I might have been feeling vulnerable due to marriage breakdown and I bit naive after 20 yr marriage with a " nice" man. God knows why I've let it carry on so long though. Maybe it's because he was so persuasive and manipulative and I'm too ' nice'. I know that is one of my faults

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 22:08:55

I find it hard to believe he didn't love me. I'm not making excuses in any way but he did so much for me and bought me thoughtful little things. Then something like this happens and I think where the hell did that come from? Why did it have to go that far? It needn't really even have been an argument

Lottapianos Sat 03-Aug-13 22:11:00

OP, please don't start beating yourself up about this. He is the one who has behaved appallingly. Whatever state your self-esteem is in, you have done absolutely nothing to deserve how he has treated you

Nothing wrong with being vulnerable and naive by the way. If you're a kind, gentle and forgiving person, you are most likely a wonderful friend and someone who lots of people value very highly. Please try to spend some time around people who really do love you and make you feel good about yourself.

The next few days will be tough and he may well be pressuring you to get back with him. Hold on tight and I guarantee that within no time at all you will feel like you have been released from prison! You will feel free to be yourself without someone constantly criticising you and making you feel like you need to walk on eggshells.

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 22:15:10

I suppose I'm just trying to get my head around why it had to end up going to that extreme tonight. I just don't understand his logic or where he's coming from

cozietoesie Sat 03-Aug-13 22:18:07

Dearjackie

Sometimes, people will buy others 'thoughtful little things' or do something nice just as a massage for their own ego. (They can sit back and preen about how wonderful they are, rather than think of the enjoyment of the other person.) Just thought I'd say.

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 22:18:33

Apparently he always puts me first and does everything for me. He never values what I do for him. He has nowhere he can take his children to stay and I don't mind them coming to mine to stay so he can have them overnight and he treats me like this. They were due to come soon

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 22:19:54

cozie I think you may be right

dearjackie please stay strong and dignified.
This man is not good enough for you.

£400 is a good price to pay for a 'divorce' from him, every time you think of it, it will help you to Realise what a horrible man he is. We will support you through all of this, and help you not to let him worm his way back in.

He is NOT GOOD ENOUGH for you.

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 22:28:11

WHY don't I see that then? Well I kind of see it but then there's another side of me that thinks of his good side

Lottapianos Sat 03-Aug-13 22:32:52

It's not like flicking a switch OP - those feelings you had for him won't just get turned off by magic. It's normal to feel very wobbly about this situation. But this is not the time for thinking of him, this is for thinking of you. You need to protect yourself here.

MissMarplesBloomers Sat 03-Aug-13 22:40:59

Jackie is the house yours? If so get the locks changed tomorrow so you don't feel he can walk in again, small thing but it gives you control.

Sorry for misunderstanding, but are YOU still married too?

celestialbows Sat 03-Aug-13 22:43:21

Don't twist yourself up trying to work out why he is the way he is otherwise you can end up making excuses for his behaviour and getting back into the same shit again.
Like someone else wrote he does nice things for his own benefit, to look good and to keep you believing that he loves you and ensuring that you stay confused and vulnerable. Let him go and free yourself.

jackie it's the hope sad
The hope keeps you going back

You hope he will change
You hope he will be lovely
You hope he won't shout any more
You hope tou will live happily ever after
You hope he will be as nice as he can be all the time

Stay strong and dignified and think about how he STOLE your money. That is the real person. The man who shouts at you, humiliates you, storms out and mistreats you. That is who he really is.

queenofthepirates Sat 03-Aug-13 22:55:22

I work for a travel company and get the occasional call from someone who's broken up with their partner. As long as they ask nicely and your departure date isn't soon, we tend to refund or at least try to give you something back. Give it a go.

Sallyingforth Sat 03-Aug-13 23:07:57

OP what happened today is that he has dropped the mask and shown you his real self. The sad news is that he is not the man you previously thought he was. The good news is that you have found out before there were any stronger ties between you. You can now lift your head and walk away from him with your dignity intact. Good luck!

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 23:10:48

miss marples the house is mine he eventually came back to give me the key after refusing at first. My decree nisi is through but have solicitor sorting out pension very stressful.

* queen* I will try and ring them tomorrow but don't hold out much hope as they made an agreement and let me pay only the deposit when I should have been paying the full amount

It wouldn't surprise me if he contacts me again I am worn down by this. Does he not know what a normal decent relationship is

Does he not know what a normal decent relationship is

Probably not. Abusers seldom do.

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 23:14:28

* sallyin* it's all so shocking on the back of a lovely day. But he tells me I fucked up a perfectly good day! I was just tired of that sentence " well finish with me then" that I hear whenever he wants me to shut up or to close an argument he doesn't want

Sallyingforth Sat 03-Aug-13 23:29:21

Jackie please repeat after me..

"He is not worthy of me. I am glad to be rid of him"

Have you got that?

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 23:33:35

I truly truly want to say that but more importantly I want to FEEL it and BELIEVE it. What is wrong with me that I don't even after he has behaved appallingly

clutterhoarder Sat 03-Aug-13 23:38:27

I am really proud of you.

You stood up yourself.

you recognised his sister was behaving like a bitch and asked him about it.

He reacted like the abuser he is.

Phoning up his sister - how pathetic.

Stay strong, get a counselor and find someone decent cos you deserve it.

It is totally his loss.

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 23:40:24

Thank you clutter hearing that makes me feel a bit stronger and that I did the right thing

chipmonkey Sat 03-Aug-13 23:42:36

Jackie, think of it this way. If you are addicted to heroin and you give it up, at first you feel like shit. All you want is the heroin, you would sell your granny to get it. you FEEL and BELIEVE that you need the heroin.

But, if you stay strong and stay off the heroin, eventually you realise that you are better without the stuff. You can think straight. You are not in thrall to it.

And eventually after all that you realise that you should never have taken the heroin in the first place.

Abusive controlling men are like heroin.

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 23:48:05

I no longer tell anyone in RL about any problems or arguments we had because i was ashamed and I know what they would think even if they didn't say it. That is not me really. I have always been open with people and never one to hide things, not really had much to hide before

Whats so telling to me also is he was so concerned that he'd upset his sister but hardly bothered at all about me being upset. That really hurts when I've really loved him and invested in the relationship

pollywollydoodle Sat 03-Aug-13 23:49:36

dearjackie you're in love with his nice "mask" unfortunately that mask hides the real shit that he is. You've seen it today, remember it..

Be kind to yourself. You'll need time and help to unscramble the thoughts and feelings he has (deliberately) scrambled. MN /therapy/ friends in rl
all could help. The proccess will be much easier without him there

Twirlyhot Sat 03-Aug-13 23:50:54

Talk to the travel agent. You might be able to change the name on the booking and change a double room to a twin. Then you could go with a friend instead.

You've spent enough time on the oxygen thief.

PedantMarina Sat 03-Aug-13 23:54:33

I would bet cash money that you don't [think you] have as many IRL friends as you did when you started this relationship. One of the other abuser things to do is to try to isolate their victims (yes, that's what you've been these four years).

Reach out to somebody IRL - your "shame" is just another symptom of what he's done to you. It's not your shame: it's his and his toxic family's. And I would bet even more that even if I was right in paragraph 1, you'll be reversing the trend now that you're free of him.

Look after yourself dearjackie.

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 23:55:45

So he is a shit then? I know that sounds a ridiculous question but I need people to keep telling me what they see because what I've been seeing isnt reality I don't think

cozietoesie Sat 03-Aug-13 23:58:15

Oh yes - he certainly is.

Dearjackie Sat 03-Aug-13 23:58:53

pedant you are right but I'm not sure he has deliberately tried to isolate me more its something that has happened because I have become embarrassed about the number of times he's left me or we've argued and I've told friends. So now I don't see them much

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 00:01:32

Il bet money he is not agonising over anything tonight but will now be asleep. Probably having had a long chat with his mum and sister about how difficult I make his life

clutterhoarder Sun 04-Aug-13 00:04:53

I have been in your place Jackie.

I didn't stay strong, I kept taking him back.

I knew in my head it wasn't me but I wasn't strong enough to let him go.

I loved him and wanted him to come back.

Did I think he could/would change?

Not really, he would never accept it was him not me.

Counselling helped me realise it was him at fault and then begin to believe in myself.

It also helped me to work towards not making a similar mistake with future partners.

You've made the first step towards a better future and I'm proud of you.

Sometimes writing down exactly how things happen in as much detail as possible makes you focus on how twattish some of their behavior is. it keeps it clear in your head.

PedantMarina Sun 04-Aug-13 00:05:30

Whoa! This is new information (though, I can't say surprising): he's left you already a number of times?

Make this the final time, then.

Yes, he is being a shit - I will say it in so many words: HE IS BEING A SHIT.

You've already mentioned walking on eggshells (I think you worded it as "softening" things, and you have bought in to the belief that your own feelings aren't as important as theirs. These are classic symptoms, and you would know it more if you weren't so immersed in it, you simply can't see another way of being.

But every day you spend away from this SHIT (hoping thrice is the charm!) you'll get better and stronger.

Keep him away. First thing tomorrow, pack the rest of his stuff in bin bags, give him a set time to come and collect, and have a friend with you when he does.

Glenshee Sun 04-Aug-13 00:18:29

£400 well spent!

Yes, yes, I know it's a lot of money, but if that's what it costs to get rid of an abusive man in your life, then - honestly - it's not too high a price to pay.

You need to make sure you go no contact - absolutely no contact at all, no contact, for no reason whatsoever.

Also, contact Women's Aid for support, so that you can recover from this episode fully and move on.

minkembernard Sun 04-Aug-13 00:18:51

Op
this thread has lots of useful links on EA at the top.

Also a good plans to rant or to get support.

He is trying to shut down your voice by making arguing with him impossible so you stop trying.
he will no doubt be in contact in a couple of days saying he will come back if you apologise.
toe the line or I will leave you is a classic abusive trick.

He won't change. it will probably get worse.

I went through the same with my ex. it was death by a thousand cuts. he would talk over me. ask me impossible questions to which there was no right answer. blame me for all kinds of things. storm out if i dared complain. then Hoover me back know again.
It is exhausting. make this the last time.
Stay strong. move on.
Re establish contact with your friends.

Glenshee Sun 04-Aug-13 00:21:43

Good advice about packing his stuff from PedantMarina! Absolutely don't entertain seeing him on your own when he comes to collect.

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 00:22:25

Yes he has walked out saying its over several times but never really meaning it. Now since I made clear how fed up I was with that treatment and the threats of " he can't put up with my shit anymore" he has changed tac and now says " well finish with me then" which is really just another way of controlling things isn't it. Today I said fine

He will then return and want to talk things over usually after a while.often admitting fault to a point but always making sure at least a part of the fault is attributed to me

* clutter* I have tried again each time because I thought it was 'fixable' but its gone too far this time. I love him and it will hurt I hope I can be strong because I tend to forgive people too easily

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 00:27:16

mink yes I have noticed he has tried to control me by making arguing impossible and more than that he will turn any discussion I may want into a massive argument if he doesn't want the discussion. I think he does it to throw me off track from the original issue

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 00:37:26

I feel massively in shock actually. Just a few hours ago I thought I had someone who loved and cared for me and that I could rely on and now it's over. What did I do to cause this, I know I didn't actually do anything. But what in his mind did I do I would like to know

minkembernard Sun 04-Aug-13 00:40:09

Exactly Jackie you are seeing through the fog. it is all about stopping you ever getting your point across so they never have to change. the making you take some of the responsibility is also classic
Asia i am really sorry i shouted/called you names/humiliated you/pushed you but if you had not done (insert the thing you supposedly did) i would not have to.

This, this is abusesad

And it is very hard to leave OP. so brace yourselkf. be strong. tell people in rl if it means you are more likey to stick to it.
Buy a copy of lundy bancroft.

If he gives you the well i only dude x because you did y speech don't engage. don't argue. just say yes and that is all the more reason why we should not be together. rinse and repeat.
Then ignore, ignore and ignore some more.

Because the only way to win this war is to stop fighting.
Because that is what a rs with an abuser is. a war that they are determined to win.

Good luck OP.
Keep coming back for support.

minkembernard Sun 04-Aug-13 00:40:37

As in. not Asia.

PedantMarina Sun 04-Aug-13 00:49:17

So, you KNOW he's going to try it again. You've got time to work yourself up into a calm-but-angry place and ensure he doesn't worm his way back in.

This is where putting his things into bags can help you. You'll feel like you're taking back your home. Get rid of any signs of him, put furniture back where you liked it before he came to live, etc. And presenting him with fait accompli will of course make sure he gets the hint.

Having a friend with you will help keep you strong. Absolutely no reason why you shouldn't. No reasonable person could think you unfair for wanting a supporter by your side.

Buuuuttt of course he's not a reasonable person, so be prepared for any kind of stupid argument.

I'm sure others will join me in urging you to disengage. There's absolutely no way you're ever going to convince him or his toxic family that he's done wrong, so don't even try. The faster you accept this truth, the faster your healing will start. Specific to him collecting his stuff, a simple "take your bags and go" and "there's no point in discussing", etc. Come up with a few stock phrases - the more matter-of-fact and simple the better, and use them like a broken record. Pretend you're in a shop where you're returning a faulty item, and try to feel as little about/for him as you would one of those shop assistants.

YY to Women's Aid - they have a "Freedom programme" about which I have heard good things.

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 00:49:57

Also how can he seriously think he can show me up to his sister in that way and make me out to be this awful person.I wouldn't tell people of his faults in that way it would be too embarrassing and you don't treat a partner that way

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 00:52:44

I will try women's aid but I thought they were for people in much worse situations than me?

pedant do you think his family are toxic?

Sallyingforth Sun 04-Aug-13 00:53:25

I like chipmonkey's analogy with heroin. That is so true.

You feel awful now, but this is the worst part of it and once you have committed to ending the abuse you only have better times to look forward to. Don't let him start the cycle again.

minkembernard Sun 04-Aug-13 01:06:56

Op does not really matter if his family are toxic.
Don't overanalyse for now. you won't get answers to why he did this to you. He will never fully acknowledge it.
pedants advice is excellent.

WA is for every woman in an abusive rs who needs help. FP can help you spot abusers so you can confirm your x is an abuser and avoid in future.
If that feels too much order a copy if lundy bancroft asap. it really does help click things into focus.

PedantMarina Sun 04-Aug-13 01:16:46

From what you've described, yes. I agree that his sister seems to have brought up he STBXW on purpose, just to stir it. They seem to support him in what he's doing to you. And perhaps the best indictment seems to be the finished product that is him - he got that way somehow, and a bad family is the likeliest explanation.

PedantMarina Sun 04-Aug-13 01:26:25

Something that hasn't been covered yet, but might be worth thinking about, esp if it helps you to recover. Hope this comes out sounding supportive - it's at risk of not, but I absolutely mean it to make you feel better.

Even if he were much better person than he is, this was probably not going to be the love of your life. You're in the process of divorcing another, your head has already been a bit muddled by that - anybody you meet during this sort of time is likely to be the "transition" relationship. It is a statistical unlikelihood that a new relationship formed during this time is going to last long or be good for you.

Of course, sometimes it can happen, and that's good, but if it doesn't - even if it's for simpler "just not working" reasons, there's no need to feel badly about it.

I'm firmly of the belief that a woman (probably a man, too, but that's not the issue right now) NEEDS to have some time and space to herself between relationships, give herself a chance to figure out who she really is before she starts with another man. I've seen women who don't do this, and it usually ends up with them having no personality or will of their own, and that's always sad to see.

HTH

cafecito Sun 04-Aug-13 01:32:18

Lucky lucky escape, don't go backwards. Sounds like my abusive twunt of an ex in its early days. I wish I'd used an event like that as the end rather than letting it carry on until I nearly died from his abuse. These things escalate. You're worth so much more

clutterhoarder Sun 04-Aug-13 01:35:57

You are worth more than this.

You deserve better.

You deserve to be happy.

It's the best thing that shit has done for you by going too far.

My thinking got warped over the years. I kept on putting up with increasing amounts of shit.

I stopped thinking it was fixable but still stayed with him.
When it was finally over, i'm hurt so much less than i expected.

I still miss him - pathetic really, but life is better, easier, less stressed, calm. I am at peace. My hair stopped falling out and the back pain disappeared. I would never go back.

If I'm such a totally insane, twisted, malicious bitch why does he want me back?

At the final end, I had a kind of light go off and realised it would never be how I imagined it to be. I couldn't face any more years of living that way.

I had this picture of us retiring to a cottage but it was never going to happen. I finally got it. I started telling people and they couldn't believe what an arse he was and that I put up with it for that long.

PedantMarina Sun 04-Aug-13 01:51:08

BTW, you're getting good advice about not analysing it (his behaviour, his family's, yours, even) too much. And this is good advice.

That said, none of us are silly enough to think you're going to take it! If I were in your position (and I have been there - can't ya tell? wink), I couldn't have stopped obsessing over Where It All Went Wrong if I'd had a team of wild horses and a naked Jarvis Cocker to distract me. This is perfectly normal and nothing to beat yourself up about.

Just bear in mind that what you need to be focussing on right now is YOU and that the more time you spend trying to think about things that cannot be fixed, the less time you're spending on where it will do some good for you.

Find ways to pleasantly distract yourself, the more so if they're also pamper-y. I think trying to sort out the holiday so you can go with a friend would be brilliant. Do a massive houseclean (yes, including his stuff) and maybe get some things on ebay or a boot sale. Take nice long walks in the lovely air. Watch a box set of something he'd hate. Etc.

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 04:28:30

I have to say if I had rung my sister and said what he did she would have quite clearly told me she felt uncomfortable and it was between us to sort. Then privately talked with me if I needed support. She wouldn't have stayed on the phone like that and she would have recognised it was humiliating for him.

Thank you all for your wonderful support I truly don't have much in RL and its going to be hard to build up a life without him. I'm not young my children are grown up so I just don't have the contacts

I have slept for 3 hrs and have a migraine he is aware I have chronic health issues that can be fairly serious and they are made worse with stress but that's how much he cares for me

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 04:44:45

I hate feeling sorry for myself and I very much do at the moment. Is this wrong? He always told me everything was all about me.

I feel like I've been played in so many ways. I already have the Lundy Bancroft book and believe him to be a mix of the demand man and the player. I feel used and yes abused. I have had to fight with him every step of the way to be treated with respect over numerous things. And whilst certain things might have changed something else crops up to take its place. I don't know if I'm making sense here, I just feel a mess

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 04:59:53

I have the horrible sick feeling he didn't care for me at all. He refused to give my key until some mail he's expecting arrives at my house. I said I would report him to police if he didn't to which he said he'd deny he had it. I'm embarrassed to say I slapped him during all this I felt shocked terrified disbelieving that all this could be happening all because of me expressing my hurt at his sisters comment

During the scuffle although I never even felt it at the time my arm got bruised. Later when it started hurting I showed it to him and that was one of the reasons he came back to apologise after he'd left. Later he came and gave me my key ' because he knew I was scared he'd come in without me there'

I really think he was scared I might report him so yet again he's concerned about himself and any decent man would be mortified with that happening as I am. They wouldn't just go anyway would they? And leave me to it

He tried ringing over and over, I didn't answer but my son did when he got in and brought the phone to me. He apologised for my arm again I said goodbye and hung up

I know I have to stop analysing but it's still so fresh and I feel so shocked

hesterton Sun 04-Aug-13 05:20:03

Did he have time to get another key cut between the time he left and returned?

If there's any chance at all, please change the locks.

I agree you are better off without him.

If you have come out of a long relationship before meeting him, you would be wise to stay single for a while.

If the stbxw is the mother of his children, it doesn't feel unreasonable to me that his sister asked how she was but his reaction to your distress about it was out of all proportion.

Were you both still with your previous partners when you got together?

You would do well to be single for a while. I think sometimes we go for polar opposites to our previous partners forgetting the things we liked about them and being a bit blind to the opposing faults of the new partner. E.g. if we have left someone we see as boring we go for someone we see as exciting forgetting about the drama and insecurity they can bring.

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 05:29:51

hesterton you are spot on with regards to going for the polar opposite of my ex. I thought he was exciting and had left my marriage as we were more like friends than husband and wife

The stbxw is the mother of his kids but the sister sees her about 3 times a week and us rarely so you'd think she'd be focussing on asking how we were and what we were doing. However even giving her the benefit of the doubt and she's not been nasty to me before really, the problem in all this was his total overreaction to me moaning about it. I can't understand why he overreacted to that extent

No we were not with partners when we met but had not long split.

I don't think he had time to get key cut everywhere would have been close at that time

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 05:31:03

Btw oh how I wish I had that friendship now but my ex is happily with someone else and we are nearly divorced

Cerisier Sun 04-Aug-13 05:33:59

I am so sorry you are going through this.

Another vote for changing the locks. You can't be certain he didn't get duplicate keys made. This is a dangerous time when feelings are running high and you must protect yourself and your DC.

Cerisier Sun 04-Aug-13 05:35:36

X-post, if you are sure he couldn't get duplicates then fair enough.

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 05:38:59

I live alone my children are grown up. My son sort of lives between here and his girlfriends house. I feel so utterly alone. I've had a terrible shock and have nobody to talk to. My mum is elderly, my sister is hundreds of miles away and on holiday at the momentary daughter is pregnant and I can't burden her with my problems.

I have lost all closeness with any friends I had partly through all the stupidity that's gone on in this relationship

hesterton Sun 04-Aug-13 05:43:20

Your ex wasn't right for you either though was he? Being single for a while is a really good idea now. I had a twenty year marriage and it took me years to really sort my head out enough to see red flags and get the self worth I needed to ensure I was seeing men I met clearly and spotting the red flags clearly.

Once I got used to it - and it's not easy when you've barely ever been an adult without a partner - it was lovely and although my dp now is the nicest man I know (met after 8 years and a few wonderful flings and fwb) I still miss the autonomy and total freedom of being single.

You'll be fine as long as you don't drift back to this man or towards another too soon. Give yourself some recovery time, not just for this ended relationship but for the last one too.

Cerisier Sun 04-Aug-13 05:45:20

It is hard keeping up with friends at the best of time, let alone when dealing with this sort of set up at home. It sounds exhausting.

Your daughter would surely want to know what is going on? I would be upset if my mum didn't think she could talk to me about things. It isn't as if DD is a youngster.

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 05:50:44

No he wasn't right for me and I'm certainly not looking for another man, in fact I'm worried this may have put me off for good. I will be constantly nervous in future about this happening again

I find it hard to get my head round the fact that he's done this again. Apparently "he can never do anything right" but it wasn't him I was moaning about it was a comment by his sister.

I really need a massive dose of strength to stay the hell away. I know for sure I won't contact him but I'm not so sure he won't contact me

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 05:54:58

cerisier I have involved her in the past and she ended up disliking him for a while. That had all settled down and they get on well now. Not that that matters now its just like she sheen on this roller coaster with me in a way and now she's pregnant I want to protect her

I'm exhausted haven't slept for more than 3 hours and keep crying. I don't want my son seeing me like this when he comes in

hesterton Sun 04-Aug-13 05:56:20

Then focus on not responding to him other than to keep saying it's over.

And then start really rediscovering yourself and have fun doing it. Reignite friendships and make new friends.Go on your holiday with a pile of good books and a ddetermination to have a rest and some positive reflection time.

You sound very sensible about what you've realised regarding this man's true nature. Build on this awareness and plan some interesting self development stuff.

hesterton Sun 04-Aug-13 05:59:12

I mean go on holiday alone, not with him obviously! Your son and daughter will probably be very relieved that this is over and will support you surely as long as you don't waver again about allowing this man who is clearly not good for you back.

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 06:02:57

hesterton I very much plan to do what you've suggested I just still need to get over what feels like a massive shock. I NEVER expected it to end like that and certainly not yesterday. All seemed to going well its totally out of the blue. However that's how it was it could change in an instant if he got in a mood or didn't like something I said. And I wasn't one for shutting up really

As regards the holiday if it was anywhere else I would probably pluck up courage and go alone but it's a country where women can get a lot of hassle so I wouldn't be comfortable. I really don't have anyone to come with me

hesterton Sun 04-Aug-13 06:10:47

That's the last thing you need, agreed.

Do the same at home maybe? But be good to yourself. Don't see the spaces in your life as a bad thing. They give you time and opportunity to reflect on what you really want.

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 06:20:25

I'm not worried about having space to myself as I do like quite a lot of time on my own anyway. I'm concerned that he still has a hold over me and I think it's because he made himself indispensable in a way. I feel he's played me too saying the right things to get me and keep me and get back with me. Because if the things he's said we're true he wouldn't treat me like this

He created a massive drama Boxing Day and rung me when I was at work telling me he was leaving, couldn't take it anymore et ect all because he was miserable Xmas day and I said he should be with his kids. Apparently he'd chosen to be with me and I was never happy. I was in bits at work and came home to find he'd gone and spent it alone. That's just one example. I need to keep reminding myself how ridiculously out of hand this has become

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 06:24:43

Since then because I had a wobbly moment feeling a bit jealous about stbxw we had a massive row in early hours of morning during which again I felt totally unheard and misunderstood and he again goaded me into telling him to leave and it was over. It was ten days before I heard from him that time

hesterton Sun 04-Aug-13 06:28:33

You sound as if you don't believe you actually have the choice to stay away from him. You do. Stick with it.

Cerisier Sun 04-Aug-13 06:31:25

If it is a resort holiday I wold go anyway if I were you. Relax by the pool and read some books. A change of scene is a good idea when you need time and space to think and rest.

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 06:38:14

I have relied on my stbxh and him for years and don't know if I have the confidence to go alone besides which if I go go I still owe another£400 which I can't afford

* hesterton* I'm frightened that you may have a point. I'm not sure whether I am seeing it as inevitable that wel get back together. Probably because this is how it's been and I've been conditioned by him. I know that I need to break this

Bumblebee78 Sun 04-Aug-13 06:43:45

Better to have loved and lost than live with a psycho forever!
Id try to be brave and walk away. I had an ex like this and it took me years to get away. I was mentally in a mess, questioning everything i thought.

He sounds insecure and like he pushes people to he limit, just to then turn round looking for sympathy and trying to be the innocent party.

hesterton Sun 04-Aug-13 06:50:00

Can you have some counselling? I did, with the expressed purpose of building up defences against the temptation going back to something I knew but also knew was wrong for me. When my ex put pressure it helped me to say no.

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 06:58:23

Where do you suggest is the best place for counselling?

bumblebee yes he bends over backwards to portray himself as the innocent party and yet accuses me of this very thing. Often he will suggest getting on the phone to his family members in the middle of an argument to prove a point. This is the first time he's actually done it though, which is a step further again isn't it. I have a nice big bruise on my arm now

nkf Sun 04-Aug-13 07:21:33

Thank your lucky stars he walked out. Go on the holiday. Don't take him back. Enjoy the rest of your life.

Fraggle74 Sun 04-Aug-13 07:32:27

Dearjackie

Just want to say well done for how you have stood up to him and everything you are feeling makes sense. I left a similar sounding relationship 14 months ago when our DS was 9 months.

He was also Jekyll and Hyde and the arguments were awful. There is no room for reasonable discussion as they can't take feedback of any kind on their behaviour not matter how kindly or gently you put it. I held on too cos I couldn't understand how he could be so amazing and lovely and fun and then switch to this ogre verbally abusing me.

So I understand how you feel about wanting to feel strong and like you are better off without him but not quite buying it yet! They mess with your mind and self esteem - I was a shell of myself by the end - an emotional wreck never knowing where I stood or what was coming next.

There is hope though. From what you have said about not talking about the relationship to anyone in RL anymore, sounds like you know deep
Down this relationship is dysfunctional. Just hold onto that knowledge that this is the right thing to be split from him.

That will get you through. That doesn't mean it will be easy, doesn't mean there won't be difficult encounters with him to sort stuff out or loneliness. I have had some really tough times this past year - tears, reflection, felt I still loved him, like I would never be over him BUT gradually it has got easier and my life is stable without him and the arguments.

I don't think you have any kids with him so like others are saying, you have a chance to have a quick split from him. You have your own house so once his stuff is gone the stress of dealing with this man will be gone and that will help you feel calm again.

Good luck. I know how agonising it all is but hold on to knowing you deserve better.

myroomisatip Sun 04-Aug-13 07:36:19

He sounds rather like my Ex. It took me years to get away so I am wishing you all the strength in the world.

Be kind to yourself. Get the locks changed for sure, and definitely do not speak to him. Block his number or turn off your phone. He is manipulative and abusive and you really will be better off without him.

KittyVonCatsworth Sun 04-Aug-13 07:54:31

My goodness dearjackie, how old is this manchild? What I'm reading, I'd expect similar behaviour from an immature 14 year old. Leaving over 10 times, telling you it's over numerous time, telling you to finish it? Honestly? Agree with the others. You've had a lucky escape; grown up, adult relationships are not supposed to be like this. I can't imagine how exhausting it all is.

Why did him and his ex split? Who called time on it? It sounds as if he's still reeling from that. Especially if it was her that called time; an element of him losing control over another.

You should a sensible, switched on person, please do not let this manchild drag you down. I think you should go on holiday by yourself; it's so liberating and does wonders for your confidence. I went to morocco by myself, and yeah, it was a bit daunting, but I did it.

Go for it. Your new life as a confident, beautiful, strong woman starts today xxx

ClassyAsALannister Sun 04-Aug-13 08:09:05

Women's aid is for anyone in or leaving an abusive relationship. You certainly qualify!

You're in shock and heartbroken but it won't last forever. But he'll always be an abusive pig.

minkembernard Sun 04-Aug-13 10:12:32

Jackie he really does sound like a carbon copy of my ex. They think they are so unique and special but they are not.
My ex played all these games. and when we split numerous times,i too stopped telling people because i thought it was inevitable he would be back. it is like quitting smoking. Only you can decide this time it really is for good.

Like smoking you know it is bad fir you. the longer you do it the worse it gets.and it is easy to go back to. the worst bit is the first few weeks. but also like smoking once you have quit you start to feel better.

Tell someone in rl that this time it us gore good.Actually say out loud he has been abusing me. i know i have taken him bavkstop before but this time i want to be the last. i found that helped enormously. before that most people thought we were a bit stormy. once i had admitted out loud what e had done they were supportive but it also helped me draw a line.

i take it he has somewhere else to live, as did my ex, which made him walking out and acknowledge in again much easier but ultimately it also made getting rid if him easier. no property to split etc.
although we do have kids and that means i can never be properly free and they have to put up wit having a child for a father.

The poster above who says he is like a teenager is spot on. i split with my x very suddenly during a row where he was calling me allsorts in front of our children.

Because he is a player he will move on before too long. they don't generally like to beg. so just let him go.
nothing can drag you down if you are not holding on. So let go of this millstone of a man. yes you will miss him sometimes but you will recover.

You have to mentally put your foot down and decide no more. i really do know his tough that is. try not to speak to him at all. if he phones just say it is over and put the phone down. don't argue don't get drawn in.
Think JADE. don't justify don't argue don't defend don't engage. if he says you are terrible you did x y z just agree and say we are better off apart. it is over.

ot will leave a bitter taste. you will never convince him you are not the one to blame. he will never realise he is an abusive twunt.

All you can do is walk away.
Revenge is a life well lived Jackie

sorry for typos. on phone.

minkembernard Sun 04-Aug-13 10:15:21

For good...not gore
and taking him back not bavkstop. !!
grin

sorry for all the random words hope you can make sense of that post. the predictive text on my phone is a menace!!

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 10:20:33

Thanks again for all the support its really helping me

fraggle your post is great its showed me I'm not going mad and that someone else has been there, not that I would wish this on ANYBODY. The bit about no room for reasonable discussion as they can't take feedback on their behaviour is so spot on. Yes it's hard to fully accept the type of person he shows himself to be at these time. I think it might help me of I think of it as just one facet of his personality rather than him being evil and his mask slipping. However it's a facet IMPOSSIBLE to change or live with

fraggle thank you for your wishes

kitty I was thinking the very same thing. It is the behaviour you'd expect from an immature 14 yr old and I said that to him whilst he had his sister on the phone. It's not how a mature committed relationship should be I know. This is why I've stopped speaking to people in RL because I'm ashamed and embarrassed that I haven't called a stop to it. The first thing people will say is get rid why have you put up with it?

Honestly I don't know and unless you've been through similar manipulation and none of my RL friends or family have they will never understand

Anniegetyourgun Sun 04-Aug-13 10:21:57

When it gets to the slapping and the bruising it is definitely time to end it. It doesn't matter who started it or who hit whom first, it's over.

I notice you've said at least twice in this thread that you relied on him or that you thought you had someone you could rely on, but clearly you couldn't do anything of the sort. The nearest thing to reliable one can say about him is that he at least let you know you were going to come home and find him gone confused. You never knew when something you said would be taken and flung back in your face with fury. Instead of standing up for you to his family he recruited them to help him slag you off. You really could not rely on him, and yet you still kept trying to. It's an imaginary support you've lost. Like using a broken walking stick held together with sellotape. You walk differently because it's there but you don't really dare lean on it. When it's gone you feel funny for a bit, but will actually learn to walk better without it.

I would also add that your reluctance to dump on your children does you great credit. However, they're adults now, and although you still rightly don't want to use them as crutches, they'd probably be absolutely delighted that you're finally getting rid of that dead weight dragging you down. I'm willing to bet that if you rang your daughter right now and gave her the cut-down version on the lines of "I've left x for good, I feel a bit shit at the moment but I know it's for the best", she wouldn't have a big shock and be carted off to hospital as you fear; she'd be a lot more likely to say "Oh thank goodness, I thought you'd never get round to it".

And lastly: it's clichéd but it's true that you are never as alone on your own as you are in a bad relationship.

minkembernard Sun 04-Aug-13 10:30:20

Annie well said.

OP you would be surprised. lots of my rl friends were much more understanding than i thought i deserved. i too felt really ashamed and humiliated. but now with more perspective I can see that the abuse was husband fault not mine. and hiding in shame allows Abusers to get away with it.

He should be ashamed not you.

If you say it was abuse,which it is then they will understand.
you put up with it because you loved him. Simply as that. but no more. spend some of your love and compassion on yourself.

And if you come to the EA thread everyone there will understand and their stories may help you too. they will have no trouble recognizing him.

have a look at th outof the fog website.

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 10:33:13

mink thanks for posting sounds as though our ex's are indeed very alike. Tantruming over things I say that he doesn't want to hear or discuss and reacting wildly out of proportion to the supposed thing I've said wrong

I need to find the courage to spell put to people exactly what's been going on. I have told mysister bits before and she knows we have split a few times but I don't think she understands the real nature of it all and it's so hard to explain. I thought I might get her to read this post

I must admit I didn't realize what emotional abuse was until MN

Anniegetyourgun Sun 04-Aug-13 10:33:42

Oh yes, I've been there too. It took 25 years before I finally saw the light. Congratulate yourself on getting there in a mere 4!

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 10:47:39

annie your sooo right. It's not real support when he snatches it away at the drop of a hat is it? All because I've annoyed him. He kept telling me throughout the relationship all the ways he helped me mainly practical things because my physical health is not great and I can't always manage to mow lawn ect.

Yes it's true that instead of having empathy for me in the sister situation he was angry at me for mentioning it/ critising her or him. I have wondered why he rang her and I believe you are right, he "recruited" her to assist him in making me in the wrong. How bloody immature and despicable can you be

He has gone out of his way to make my children like him which on the face of it looks great, but im not sure they understand his true nature. Also I'm still hearing about how he's better to my kids than their own dad is and how he took my daughter to A and E TWO YEARS ago. He even told that story to his sister during the phonecall yesterday

Anniegetyourgun Sun 04-Aug-13 10:59:50

Read your Lundy Bancroft - it's all in there.

It's also not support if he keeps going on about it. Partners do support one another, it's what partnership means. Doing the good stuff doesn't buy you a licence to do the bad stuff.

Did you go on about every time you cooked a meal for him or did his laundry? Bet you didn't.

PedantMarina Sun 04-Aug-13 11:17:33

Woke up to quite the updates! Hadn't heard about the bruising, but this proves even more what needs to be done.

If you spend any time on the Relationships/Emotional Abuse threads and hear the horror stories about women who are more trapped than you've been, you'll soon come to realise that, comparatively speaking, this man handed your freedom to you on a plate with cress round.

You have no children together. You own your own home. AFAIK you have no real financial obligations together. You do have a RL support network, if only you have the courage to use it.

Tell your son and daughter. Take pictures of the bruises - you never know if you need them later (either to remind yourself or perhaps for any police support).

Pack up twunt's things, maybe get your son to help. Send one simple text message to twunt saying "your things are ready to be collected at XX time". Have your son with you when twunt collects them.

Stop finding reasons twunt has been nice or good or whatever. Let the godsdam grass grow for a bit - small price to pay for your freedom.

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 12:07:53

I keep feeling physically sick it's the shock I think. Even I never thought he'd behave this badly . I really can't afford to loose all that money £200 should have been his share of the deposit and because I hadn't banked it in time and he took it back I've ended up paying the full £400

I know people keep saying its a small price to pay to rid myself of him but I've have a £400 solicitor bill to pay as well and that's just the start of the bills with the solicitor. What am I going to do

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 13:05:30

I have rung the holiday agent but tour operator not open till tomorrow they will see what they can do for me. Please help I can't stop crying. I am furious and heartbroken all at once. I have allowed his to happen how fucking dare he. Everything I thought would happen has gone now and he doesn't give two shits about leaving me in this mess

Anniegetyourgun Sun 04-Aug-13 13:14:09

No, he doesn't. Your anger is useful as it will give you the strength to keep him out of your life.

I do hope the agent is able to get at least some of your money back. There's not many of us rich enough in this day and age to wave goodbye to £200 even without a divorce going on.

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 13:29:00

annie it's £400 because I paid his half until he got paid but he took all the cash back off me. So not only have I lost his half of deposit but mine also. He has killed my love and I hope it stays that way. He's done so much to me

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 15:07:19

Sorry to keep coming and posting her in drips and drabs but I've nobody to talk to and feel so alone. My kids are out for lunch with heir dad and his partner and my daughter goes away tomorrow for a week. My sister is away and all my friends are busy with their families and I've not had much contact with them lately anyway. I am beside myself and have never felt so miserable I never thought I'd feel like this at my age

Viking1 Sun 04-Aug-13 15:28:41

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 15:43:39

I have literally deleted all his numbers and I don't know them so I won't be calling of texting. Am far too upset hurt and angry to do that anyway. Have been doing bits of gardening. I plan to join a gym this week so I can go after work

I just can't shake off this devastating feeling of Hurt and confusion. Also I am starting to have thoughts of well maybe I shouldn't have said this or that and I DON'T want to go down that route. His reaction was totally over the top as usual don't you think?

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 15:46:47

All this at the same time as my divorce and my ex is moving on happily with someone else. Ironic really I'm the one who left and I'm still in a mess whereas he is now happy. Not that I wish him anything bad it just makes me feel more alone than ever. I have no social life and I'm late fourties so can't see how I will pick myself up and ever meet anyone in the future

SlimePrincess Sun 04-Aug-13 15:49:37

Yes he was completely over the top. IMO he engineered it so he could have a tantrum.

Very good call deleting all his numbers.

SlimePrincess Sun 04-Aug-13 15:54:49

40s is still a spring chicken, you can do anything you want to. Especially now you've not got that knobhead dragging you down.

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 16:07:07

More details are coming back to me about the argument yesterday. He told his sister I made him shut down all his online social network sites. In fact he voluntarily did this in a bid to gain my trust back after I found his profile on MySpace sounding like he was single and wanted to date. He told me it was an old one and I gave him the benefit of the doubt.it took a lot of persuasion on his part to get me back and he closed them all voluntarily. He then twists the truth and uses it against me. He actually got into my facebook and shut it without my knowledge, denied it but later admitted it

Seabright Sun 04-Aug-13 16:15:59

Mid 40's with children old enough to look after themselves sounds ideal for starting a new social life.

The WI has had an image overhaul, what about that? Or a stitch & bitch group? What do you like doing in your spare time? Tell us and maybe we can give youbsom ideas

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 16:25:17

Well to be honest I don't really know. Was in long marriage bringing up children then in this relationship, so I guess I need to find myself. I enjoy reading. I don't really have hobbies as such, am always too tired after work as I have a couple of chronic health conditions. Am always open to some suggestions though please

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 16:25:56

I am going to nip to my daughters for a while I just rang her but will be back later x

MissMarplesBloomers Sun 04-Aug-13 16:45:59

Good for you get a hug from your DD & a good talk.

I would still get those locls change d tomorrow for your own peace of mind.

Bundle up anything that is his into black bags and put them in a cupboard if there is anything left.

Is there anything you can sell/Ebay to help moneywise? May only be bits & bobs but all helps. Can you have an advance on your salary from work?

Don't worry about paying the solicitor, they can wait until its all done & dusted, have you asked for costs to be paid by your STBE if you can?

<<hugs>> You are being incredibly strong, the rose tinted glasses have fallen from your eyes & THAT although incredibly painful is the start to your new independance.

Seabright Sun 04-Aug-13 16:46:53

Well, maybe you library run a book club?

Do you work FT? If not, your library may have a scheme for volunteers to pick books to take out to nearby residential homes? My Dad volunteers on a scheme like this at his local library and really enjoys it.

Do your health conditions limit what you can do? Should we be thinking of ideas that are a bit sedentary & restful, rather then IronMan style triathlons?

MissStrawberry Sun 04-Aug-13 17:02:06

Is it really over this time? You have been through this many many times and keep posting basically the same thing which of course is fine but what do you want from the posting if you are just going to take him back again?

It is like you are both addicted to each other in a really bad way and don't work together but aren't mature enough to walk away for good.

I hope you doing Ok.

I would go around your house and collect anything of his that he has 'left'. So should he turn up you can give him everything when he turns up.

What post is he waiting for.

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 21:08:10

I work almost full time hours so any interests would need to be weekend or evening based, having said that the evenings I'm pretty exhausted. I have fatigue and muscle and joint problems so can't do anything too physical

miss strawberry yes I have posted many times before and I realize nobody can solve my problems but me so I think what I'm really looking for when I post is to realease some of the hurt and upset I am feeling and try to make sense of the shock. I don't know why I have taken him back several time except to say he is manipulative and devious and can make me believe its just another bad argument. Isnt this what the cycle of abuse is like? I don't think it's immaturity but I think your correct when you say it's like we are addicted to each other in a bad way

Seabright Sun 04-Aug-13 21:13:40

But you have recognised your addiction & are taking steps - you've started by blocking his numbers, haven't you?

MissStrawberry Sun 04-Aug-13 21:21:19

You know he is manipulative and devious so learn to not fall for it. Being addicted is dangerous and not a grown up way to have a relationship. Make your choice and stick to it.

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 21:31:06

seabright yes I have got rid of all numbers. I know beyond a doubt that I wouldn't contact him, I never have before its always him in the end even if it takes 2 weeks. Then he has seemed to be able to suck me back in again that is my weak point. If he never contacted me it wouldn't have started up again. And yes I know I should have ignored him and its this bit I need to work on

ClassyAsALannister Sun 04-Aug-13 21:39:16

Well done.

Ignore him. You owe him less than nothing!

PedantMarina Sun 04-Aug-13 21:48:48

Glad to hear you've spent some time with your daughter today. Please PLEASE tell me you've talked to her and got her support (doesn't have to be anything apart from Just Believing You and saying "I'm on your side, Mum".)

Late 40s is not the end of life. BTW, I am now 49, and my social circle just keeps growing and growing. Hell, some of my new friends are in their 50s, 60s, even 70s and they're still racing off to fun weekends (we're viking reenactors). It all starts with hobbies and grows from there.

You've got evenings and weekends free - that's better than some! (think about retail workers who don't even have weekends). No matter what you do, if conventions are in your future, you've got the weekends to do that.

But, like my (and others') advice about another man in your life, don't feel you have to get involved with A.N. particular hobby until you feel more like yourself, and even know what interests you. This is why the getting IRL support/packing twunt's stuff/pampering yourself stuff is the highest priority.

Just saying, Life Ain't Over. And when you're shot of twunt, you'll see that it's just getting good.

PedantMarina Sun 04-Aug-13 21:57:15

Oooh, just saw (previously) that you deleted his numbers and don't know what they are. Now I see that it's entirely him contacting you. If he rings, you won't know it's him until he picks up! By which time he'd be well into his patter.

OK, if a total stranger on Mumsnet knows this, then you must surely know this. How are you going to deal with it WHEN (not if) this happens? You HAVE TO have your own patter in reply. Can be very simple: "you have until XX to collect your things: then they're on the skip" should to nicely.

THEN DO IT - don't let him lead by example in promising something that you won't see through.

Oh, if there's any chance at all, please do find his numbers, re-enter them in your phone (but don't use his name - list them under "Asshole" or similar), then you'll be ready WHEN he does ring or, better, just reject the call.

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 21:59:23

pedant yes I told my daughter and her partner, she believes me because she's seen it all happen before and I know she's on my side without her having to say anything. She also is probably thinking ' he's off on one again" cos this is what he does. As she tried to explain to her partner who hasn't seen it happen before " when he's nice he's great but he has this other extreme side to him"

The Viking weekends sound fun. Where do I start finding out about things? The Internet I guess is a good place?

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 22:03:27

He normally always contacts the first time with a txt and I know the last 3 digits of his number just can't remember the rest. It normally behind with him pretending he's calling to arrange to pick up something. Then I get drawn into debating who said or did what and how what I did or said provoked him. Maybe I should keep responding with " yes that's why we are not right together"

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 22:06:14

begins not behind

PedantMarina Sun 04-Aug-13 22:18:30

Excellent! Talking to your daughter and her partner is a great start, and you need to continue with the momentum.

re Hobbies: Well, you start with what you like. You said you like reading but i didn't get a handle on what kind of books. You didn't mention anything much about liking sewing or other crafts but maybe you do. Historical reenactment kinda requires a bit of interest in history (or at least, How People Used to Live).

All the more reason for you to spend a bit of time, initially, to just Find Yourself again. Do the pampering, the house-clean, etc. You can't know what you'll like until you're at least most-way apart from this leech.

Have gorgeous sleep tonight.

Dearjackie Sun 04-Aug-13 22:24:14

I'm not a craft sort of person at all. Do like history, love costume dramas on tv, looking at historical/ archaeological sites. Like the Tudor period and the Georgian period also. Anyway will find something eventually I guess

Thanks pedant I'm going to try to sleep as have work tomorrow and didn't sleep last night

PedantMarina Sun 04-Aug-13 22:33:37

PS - thinking about the trip deposit. Please do consider going to the travel agent in person. Tell them about the break-up. Tell them about the let-down. BTW, was the choice of "a country that's not nice to women travelling alone" his choice or yours? And show them your bruises.

If that doesn't at least get your deposit transferred to a holiday you can live with, I don't know what to tell ya...

raisah Sun 04-Aug-13 22:54:25

Take it as a really lucky escape, he has behaved like that because you questioned his sisters' manipulative trouble making. Change the locks in the house & change your number or block his, which ever is the easiest. If you feel threatened by him then call the none emergency number for the police & let them know what's happening.

Can you get a friend/relation to go on the holiday with you instead so you don't lose the money. Some time away from home might help you to gain some perspective about this whole situation.

Glenshee Sun 04-Aug-13 23:28:06

OP - "I don't know why I have taken him back several time" - on average people in abusive relationships attempt to leave 8 times, before they actually leave for good. So it's not uncommon and not your fault. Just take your chance now, and don't look back...

Dearjackie Mon 05-Aug-13 04:15:23

glenshee that's interesting to know. I would be on about my 4th attempt then of seriously being at the point where I know it's not sustainable anymore but for some reason feel he has a hold on me.

I must admit that makes me feel weak and pathetic and that maybe a stronger person would have been able to bin it ages ago. And yet on another level I don't feel weak and I know I'm an ok person.does that make sense? Life seems a mass of contradictions at the moment

Just checking in jackie to see if you managed to sleep at all.
Are you feeling like you never want him back, yet? Are you feeling that you are too good fr him? This is the start of a new, strong, independent jackie

Trivia: did you know that Jackie magazine was named after Jacqueline Wilson, the children's author, who worked for them at the time?

It occurs to me that even if you can't get the deposit back, at least you will save all the future money you WOULD have spent on the holiday.

Keep talking to us, we are on your side

Dearjackie Mon 05-Aug-13 07:00:46

norks thank you it's good to know I can come on here and speak to some wonderful people.

I didn't know the magazine was named after Jacqueline Wilson. Used to love getting that mag

I don't know of I feel I'm too good for him as such because somewhere I still have some feeling for him but I DO think I'm worth more than all this performance every few months. Three quarters of me never wants him back because I hate this aspect of him and a quarter of me feels like its grieving something

ClassyAsALannister Mon 05-Aug-13 07:07:57

Just because you feel he has a hold on you, doesn't mean you have to surrender yourself to it.

Hope you slept ok.

You are grieving the person he could have been. Unfortunately, that was a mirage, an illusion. sad

Actually, you already sound stronger than you did when you first posted.

You are a strong, independent single woman. You are going to make a good life for yourself with no space for all the head-fuckery that being with your ex gave you. Imagine how much fuller your life will be without all that.

Dearjackie Mon 05-Aug-13 08:15:00

Yes norks I am stronger, I think than when I first posted. Each time this happens I feel I spend I bit less time feeling totally devastated I just hope it's not because I am used to him calling me afterwards at some point if iyswim. But I think I love him a little less each time also

ClassyAsALannister Mon 05-Aug-13 08:16:11

Agree with norks' about grieving. You may have had doubts but not like this and are most likely grieving for the 'good' bits or what you thought this was, not what it is.

ClassyAsALannister Mon 05-Aug-13 08:18:21

And you know, love is not a valid enough reason to stay in an unhealthy relationship.

Glad you're feeling stronger. Hope you can ignore him if he does contact you.

It's impossible to be sucked back in if you've not actually spoken to him.

As I said earlier go around your house collect everything he has left behind together. So when he does text you about collecting something then all you need to do is tell to let you know what time he will be coming so you can leave his stuff outside.

Why is he having something delivered to your address rather then his own.

Seabright Mon 05-Aug-13 15:48:39

And spread your stuff out into the space his stuff one occupied. If you have a little spare cash, treat yourself to some nice smellies for the bathroom, to put where his razor/shaving foam/ whatever used to be

Dearjackie Mon 05-Aug-13 19:22:18

Hi back for a quick update. I have had periods of feeling quite ok today which has surprised me, so thats good. However I have just received an email from him asking if I will send him this important piece of mail when it arrives. I sent one back saying I'd like him to send me his half of the deposit I've lost on the holiday, as they will only give me a small amount back. No reply as yet, I won't hold my breath

Sallyingforth Mon 05-Aug-13 20:05:00

I understand your feelings entirely. But please be careful because if you withhold a letter that is rightfully his, he could go to the police.

Dearjackie Mon 05-Aug-13 20:19:14

sally hmm didn't think of that. It seems so unfair. I don't believe he could have loved me, firstly to belittle me like he did on the phone to his sister and secondly to leave it to me to pay the full whack of that cancelled holiday. Incredibly all because I had a moan about his sister mentioning the stbxw whenever we visit

Dearjackie Mon 05-Aug-13 20:35:59

Help I've just had a txt saying he'll always love me and he is sorry he wasn't the one but he wished he was. And he hopes I'll be happy. For gods sake it's ridiculous. I think he is going to keep on now and I think he would get back with me. Why the hell do they behave so ridiculously shittily then calm down and come crawling back

LittlePeaPod Mon 05-Aug-13 20:46:56

With regards his mail. You can return to sender and this will not get you in any trouble. It's his responsibilty to get address changed.

I am sorr to read of your pain Op and I really hope things improve... flowers

Dearjackie Mon 05-Aug-13 20:51:17

Thanks littlepea I'm not really bothered about sending passport on tbh. I don't hate him I just hate the behaviour and its impossible to sustain a relationship with someone like this, it chips away at your love little by little.

I am hoping my appeal for him paying money he owes me will work. He usually becomes reasonable when he's calmed down

Stay strong DearJackie you knew he would do this.

LittlePeaPod Mon 05-Aug-13 21:06:34

I really hope he does the right thing and gives you his half of the deposit Op.

People's behaviour is very difficult to change without their acknowledgment that their behaviour is distructive. From what I have read on the thread he doesn't seem to truly believe he has done anything wrong. For whatever reason he has issues regarding what he perceives as criticism towards his family and not even sure where to start with regards his ex wife. On reflection and regardless of his recent / historic behaviour. The question you have to ask yourself is can you live the rest of your life like this? What would you say to your DC if they found themselves in this situation? You clearly love him and you are clearly hurting but you deserve better than this Op.

Dearjackie Mon 05-Aug-13 21:20:48

littlepea it would be impossible to live like this for the rest of my life. I have tried so hard for a long time now and whilst I could possibly possibly live with the storming off if its his way to cool down he has gone a step further this time by phoning the sister and belittling me and half of what he said to her was skewed version of the truth to show me in a bad light

Also the taking of the money whilst I was desperately begging him to pay his half because I can't afford it all. He defiantly has issues with regard to what he sees as critism of family. And he has issues with any jealousy I may occasionally show over ex wife. I'm just not allowed to show it. He tells everybody I'm obsessed with her but I'm really not its just little things piss me off. His sister will now go and tell ex that I'm obsessed and jealous probably. He didn't seem bothered about how he was painting me to her

minkembernard Mon 05-Aug-13 21:32:48

Jackie this too is like my ex. he would say the most vile and hurtful things when angry. then calm down. half apologise and back down on the most unreasonable if the things he had done. making think that underneath it all hrs was not completely unreasonable and it was just his temper talking

However, if you think about it, was he often apologiding for something outrageous, which he backed down on so that the other things went by the wayside. i.e. apologizing for the big thing so you learn to tolerate the minor insults because they are not as bad as the big thing.
This is often part of the softening up process
You learn to accept really pretty awful behaviour because well it could be worse.

BUT beware. This stopped once he realised I was not going to take him back. he now has nothing invested in being reasonable. All he does now, is pretend whatever the most recent incident was, never happened. sadly i still have to deal with him because of kids. he has really down his true nature now.

Sadly abusers only care about themselves and their needs so if it does not benefit them or is not a vital.part of their self image they will not do it
e.g. my ex pays maintenance because being honest about money and payeng for his kid is part of his self image but actually bothering to see his kids is not so if it suits him to not see them.to. Punish me he would not think twice about not seeing them for months on end.

Dearjackie Tue 06-Aug-13 08:22:23

Can someone help with with a question I have about my own behaviour in this. I'm not looking for excuses for him but to see if I have a problem also. I am clear that his behavious is very destructive bordering on cruel ta times and that we don't work together as a couple

I will admit to feeling ' put out" at times by the wife sometimes there's no real reason for it, well not much. I do harbour some jealous feelings as she casts a lot of clout as the mother of the children and I realize that's how it should be. I love the children btw they are very well brought up lovely children. I don't give him a hard time constantly about her but will complain when an incident such as the sister thing happened. Oh and I did comment she'd lost weight which I admit I was envious of as I've gained weight. He said " so what" to which I replied " so you noticed then" this was enough to really piss him off.

Suppose what I'm getting at is don't most women feel his way at times and have a bit of a huff? I recognise its a bit immature but do I have a real problem or is it fairly normal behaviour now and again? He has made me feel its not and says I'm obsessed. Any thoughts?

Dearjackie Tue 06-Aug-13 08:23:54

Btw I am not weakening but I need to see if I need to work on myself in this aspect

Viking1 Tue 06-Aug-13 08:42:35

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Redorwhitejusthaveboth Tue 06-Aug-13 08:46:38

My guess is that if you speak to stbxw she will understand where you are coming from - I suspect he will have behaved like this with her. I also bet if you think back he will have very cleverly and subtly played you off against each other for the whole of your relationship.
I've been in a relationship with a man like this - I left him after years of me thinking I was going mad... It's difficult even 2 years on as we have kids together so he still tries to manipulate and does the horrible/nice routine.
Stay strong... Build up your boundaries... Don't allow him across... Start focusing on yourself and not him... He's a leech and happiness destroyer ... Allow yourself to find happiness xxx

minkembernard Tue 06-Aug-13 11:45:04

jackie it is not ideal to be questioning about the ex especially not about the weight issue. but- you recognise it and you recognise it is something you need to deal with for future rs (future much happier rssmile). however, my bet would be he played on it and it looks like his sister definitely did.

do not beat yourself up to much about the past. you have been at the mercy of an arch manipulator. they live to confuse to distract attention from their own unreasonable behaviour. it is all part of the emotional sleight of hand.

However, working on your own self esteem and boundaries certainly cannot do any harm. stay strong.
If he starts to pressure you- try to avoid talking to him in person or on the phone. if he texts think long and hard before you reply if at all. if it is not something that needs to be dealt with leave it.

and all the old MN mantras
No is a complete sentence
ignore, ignore, ignore some more
disengage
and JADE- do not justify, argue, defend or engage.

MissStrawberry Tue 06-Aug-13 12:43:58

"Why the hell do they behave so ridiculously shittily then calm down and come crawling back."

Because you keep taking him back.

minkembernard Tue 06-Aug-13 14:10:42

Miss Strawberry Because you keep taking him back.

No! because he is abusive! end of.
It is not the OPs fault.*
to suggest the OP is responsible (which surely you were not trying to do) is victim blaming.
if it were becaseu teh OP has taken him back, then he could apologise come back and never do it again. he chooses to be abusive. he chooses to do it again. The OP does not choose to be abused.

if he were not doing it to the OP he would be doing it to someone else. it is a strategy that abusers develop. it is called the cycle of abuse for a reason.
Abusers don't accidentally abuse someone and then go oh no I had better apologise. the abuse is deliberate. the apology is deliberate. it is a tactic to allow them to get away with saying what they want to say and then the apology is a tactic to prevent the survivor from bringing it up again. so the abusers gets their needs met and keeps the survivor permanently on the back foot and in a state of confusion.

The reasons why survivors take back their abusers are complex and they should not be judged for doing so. It takes time to leave. Apart from anything else it takes a long time to see through all the confustion that abusers generate and realise that really, yes, it is him, it is NOT you. It is him.

that said jackie this time, please don't engage and keep him out. it is him. he is abusive and you deserve better. Don't blame yourself for having taken him back in the past but at the same time don't think because you have taken him back in the past it means it is inevitable that you will do so this time. Stay strong.

Redorwhitejusthaveboth Tue 06-Aug-13 17:10:14

Agree with all of that - it took me years of suffering EA before I even realised what it was... Men like this are complex and scarily manipulative. They get inside your head... Have a look at lovefraud.com
They key is to focus on you and what makes you happy... A man who can treat you with such disdain will not ever make you happy

RegTheMonkey Tue 06-Aug-13 18:09:45

DearJackie, how did he justify taking the whole of the money, when he was only entitled to £200? That's theft!

Dearjackie Tue 06-Aug-13 18:58:43

He didn't bother to try to justify at first he just demanded it. When I put up a fight and said I couldn't afford to give it all back he said neither could he afford to loose it. I threatened I'd call police and he said " go on then its your word against mine" I snapped and shouted at him to get out of my house and never come back. I threw the money at him because he was pulling me out of the way of the drawer I kept it in. I tried reasoning saying I'd booked the holiday in good faith. It's vile isn't it

The sad thing is you cannot reason with people like that. He knew it would hurt you, and he could do it, and so he did. It's sad, but there you have it. That's how he is. Not easy, but if you have no children together, stay away from him. He'll fade in your mind and you will be very pleased he is not messing up your life anymore.

tightfortime Tue 06-Aug-13 21:54:41

Just a few observations...

The odd huff about an ex is ok, but it did not cause this break up.

His sister being a stirring bitch may be true, but it did not cause this break up.

Please stop analysing about the row or what he is saying to his family about you.

It was the straw that broke the camel's back. Can you see that? Yes, it came out of the blue for you but you will soon see with that new strength and anger of yours that it was coming a very very long time.

He undermined you and had you walking on shells, waiting for the next big sulk. Now, you have decided you are worth more. Bravo.

I found it helpful when engaging with ex who would plead to know what he did wrong, or turn on me and spit that it was my fault, etc to say very very calmly: you're so right, that's why I have realised we are totally incompatible and finished it.

Repeat repeat repeat. It's very hard to fight back on that one.

Let him and his family think what they want, it doesn't matter anymore. What matters now is YOU

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 08:27:58

How do I know if I do in fact have impossibly high demands of the person I'm in a relationship with?

He constantly told me that he did everything he could to make me happy and it was never good enough and that he always put me first and it was always about me.

I want to try to get some perspective how other women are so I can move forward and hopefully recognise if I have an issue

I expected to be spoken to decently and to discuss issues rather than argue and shout
I expect to share household chores and costs relative to earnings
I also want to be spoilt at times and made to feel really special
I want to receive affection and of course give affection
I want to feel relaxed and content

I've been made to feel I'm hard to make happy. I admit I do have issues with trust and can be possessive at times. But not to the point of making it hard for someone to breathe. It's more an underlying fear they may be lying or hiding something and a jealousy over the status the ex and mother of the children has ( or the perceived status I think she has) it was probably not as much as I thought. I do think however that all these feelings I had may have dissipated if I had been with he right man who was reassuring when i neededit not angry with me

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 08:31:08

Just want to say that writing things down like this is really helping me see things clearly and I want to make the best future for myself by being strong and working on myself where I need to

RegTheMonkey Wed 07-Aug-13 09:05:06

Dearjackie, how are you feeling today? I hope each day will make things seem a bit clearer to you and that you realise he wasn't the man you deserve. I know everyone is saying that the money is irrelevant and that it's a small price to pay, but I can't get over the injustice of him taking he whole amount. I certainly can't afford to lose £200 let alone £400, and the thought of him snatching the whole lot and therefore STEALING £200 from you is making me mad! Take care and I hope things work out for you. You've got a new grandchild to look forward to and I'm sure when the baby comes it will give you a whole new outlook on life.

sipofwine Wed 07-Aug-13 09:13:28

I'm with you all the way on this one, Dear Jackie, I'm going through almost the same thing at the moment and constantly question myself - both whether I'm wrong in separating and whether I'm just ridiculously demanding. What Tightfortime said rings true and makes total sense. What I have been thinking over the last week or so re: whether I'm just very difficult to please etc, as my STBX says I am, is - whether that's true or not (and I'm sure you're not because the list of things that cause tension are obviously totally reasonable of you), it should not cause such an angry response from my partner. Couples who have mutual love and respect for each other (ie not angry and EA) can point out that occasionally their partner is being a bit of a pain in the arse without it turning into a huge, agressive row. Because everyone can be a bit unreasonable/a pain sometimes - we all know that's just normal (though you were not being unreasonable there, BTW). I totally understand your confusion, I'm in the same place virtually, but you are doing really well getting this idiot out of your life. In the end, I've decided that even if I don't meet someone that I want to spend rest of my life with (and the feeling is mutual) I'd rather be single than live with someone who shows such disdain and sometimes even hatred towards me.

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Wed 07-Aug-13 09:14:40

From your perspective of just emerging from an abusive relationship, it is very difficult to see what is normal in a relationship. Tbh, it will take time to see it clearly, so you need some time now of not being in a relationship to think it all through.

Watching couples around you will help, as will thinking about how different behaviour makes you feel (a new one to me: feelings are an indicator to listen to but not necessarily led by... but I learnt through my abusive marriage that I should ignore my feelings).

You might want to give the Freedom Programme a go, too. I found that brilliant for thinking through how relationships should and shouldn't be.

Good to see that you are thinking about you and positive about making a better future! Remember that it doesn't have to be all about relationships.

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 09:18:19

Reg thanks for your thoughts and wishes. I'm not too bad today actually. I think I've finally reached the end of my tether with him. I keep thinking if we had got as far as him moving into my house like we were planning and then split later he would have tried to take me for everything he could I'm sure of that now. He would have had no thought of my situation or what was right or fair. Absolute arsehole.

I believe the reason he hasn't done that with wife is because he has an image to keep up as a good dad, he doesn't want her to go for more child support and maybe they don't actually have equity in the house anyway. So it all benefits him,it's not done out of fairness or the goodness of his heart

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 09:22:03

sipofwine here here! Absolutely your post really resonates with me. At time I felt contempt, disdain and yes hatred towards me to. I wish you all the best x

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 09:24:51

charlotte yes I am thinking about me. I want to make a life, enjoy myself, find myself. A man doesn't come into it yet think I'm put off for a while. I will look into freedom program

minkembernard Wed 07-Aug-13 10:45:18

jackie just popped by to cheer you are on.flowers

you are doing amazingly well and your list of things you want from a rs is amazingly clear and utterly reasonable. and also something you will never get from him. if you asked him he might agree to all of those thing, probably even tell you he already does all of those things hmm but he would never stick to it.

no rs is better than this rs. but when you have moved on and recovered from this there is no reason why any rs you have in the future should not be better. i am not saying you are perfect grin but in this case, it is clear that he is the problem, not you.

time to focus on healing yourself. a rs such as this does things to your sense of self so give yourself time to recover and to remember your self again.

and buy yourself some F You flowersgrin. I find even a cheap bunch from the supermarket does me the world of good because every time I see them I think I don't need him to buy me flowers. I am worth them all by myself flowers

LeBFG Wed 07-Aug-13 11:15:22

Dearjackie, I just wanted to say good luck and I hope you find the strength to get rid completely. Also I wanted to say your list of expectations is normal, what everyone should be getting in relationships, is the basic stuff and not for just for a few. You deserve them (the expectations) - every single one of them.

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 13:30:09

Hi all
Thanks for all your messages and support and thanks for the flowers mink I have a day off today so have been to waitrose (I love their food but don't often go there) and treated myself to some lovely food.

What shall I do about this holiday? Since he sent the email asking to me send his passport on when it arrives in the post and me relying I want him to pay his half of he lost deposit back, he didn't comment on that request just sent a txt saying he'll always love me and wished he could've been ' the one". So looks like he's no intention of giving it back and unless I choose another holiday before the 12th I will loose the £400. I'm too scared to go alone though. I've never done I and would feel awkward eating alone ect. Any thoughts anyone?

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Wed 07-Aug-13 13:31:42

Would your DS or DD go with you?

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 13:50:28

No they can't my son will just have started at uni and my daughter has to save her leave now to add to her maternity leave

Sallyingforth Wed 07-Aug-13 14:27:25

just sent a txt saying he'll always love me
... but not enough to pay you the £200. You really are well rid!

It would be really good for you to get away from everything for a week or two, but I can understand your feelings about eating alone. Eventually you will actually feel good about that, from the feeling of independence and self-assurance it will give you. You could try going out for a meal or two locally first, so see how you get on.
BTW block his number now - you don't need his txts any more.

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 14:36:59

Precisely not enough to pay his share! If he had any decency he'd do that after being with someone for four years!

I didn't reply just deleted so can't block as I don't know his number but if I get another one I will block before deleting

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 14:44:35

I have a week off next week and we were to have spent it together. At least now I won't need to put up with him being withdrawn and off with me if we don't have sex every day. I'm going to spoil myself rotten. Could go to my sisters but its a long drive so I think il meet up with some friends including one who lives about an hour away that I haven't seen for ages, she's invited me over.

I'm going to go swimming every day and generally relax. Also catch up on stuff at home. I've put myself out for him for too long

Sallyingforth Wed 07-Aug-13 14:46:20

Great Jackie - that's the spirit. Get out and about and enjoy the freeeeedom!

Mrmenmug Wed 07-Aug-13 14:54:13

His behaviour is generally bad by the sounds of it, but to humiliate you in a phone call on speaker, to his sister is downright vicious. That shows a need to belittle, hurt and upset you. Whatever the rights and wrongs of day to day arguments caused by jealousy etc, this is cruel and sadistic, and a decent man would not act this way. He also sounds controlling and inconsistent in his mood patterns. There is a better man out there for you somewhere, you sound like a lovely sensible person. Good luck with everything.

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 15:10:37

mrmenmug I had a little tear in my eye reading your post. If anyone is nice to me at the moment it brings me to tears I'm a bit sensitive a think.

I was just reading the post on here ways in which your partner show they care and he did all of these for me on a regular basis. BUT he hed this whole other side particularly if it involve me complaining about the ex, sometimes he would be ok but generally it would end in a row. We could not understand each other

Plus he went a step further with that phonecall I was gobsmacked to be honest that a 40 something would behave like that. Just because he felt he'd tried hard to give us all a good day and I'd " fucked up a perfectly good day" by complaining about his sisters comment ( btw I'd been perfectly pleasant to everybody all day and only expressed my hurt on the way home)c he decided to humiliate me and get back up his sister. He even said ring your sister and see what she says. He really thinks he's right. I told him not to be so ridiculous

Inertia Wed 07-Aug-13 15:20:27

Hi Jackie , a lurker on your thread popping on to say well done, stay strong!

Just an idea about the holiday deposit- is it lodged with a travel agent who could change the holiday? Would it be worth looking into whether you could exchange the holiday for one to a different place, or maybe a holiday where you travel as a group with other single people? Even if it just covers the cost of a short break? Could your DD travel on a weekend city break somewhere close to home with you?

MumnGran Wed 07-Aug-13 15:20:53

I would not lose the deposit but choose another holiday with the company, that the deposit can be transferred to. Go somewhere you have always wanted to go, have an 'experience holiday' you would not have done otherwise.
Well worth seeing if any good friends might care to go with you, but if not then I would go on your own. Really, I know its scary, I was petrified the first time, but had a blast ...and would now choose the alone-time over other holidays, every time!!

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 15:27:17

I will look in to the weekend city break idea thank you. I I treated her she might be able to go, I know she can't really afford to pay herself at the moment as saving for the baby x

minkembernard Wed 07-Aug-13 16:41:25

I went to Barcelona on my own. it was great. If you stay in somewhere less girl like a hostel you will meet other solo travellers. it was brilliant i could go and see what i wanted when i wanted without waiting fir other people....
Or if a hostel is not your thing cpukd you get self catering appt. then you can suit yourself....
Or as others say a touring or experience.

minkembernard Wed 07-Aug-13 16:45:31

Stay in somewhere less formal ^ ^ blush phone sorry.

RegTheMonkey Wed 07-Aug-13 17:00:54

Dearjackie will still have lost the £200 that he stole from her. But yes, perhaps draw a line under that if there's no way he's going to return it. I think it might be a bit soon for you to tackle a solo holiday, but certainly a nice city break with your daughter.

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 17:15:49

Yes I think a solo holiday may make me feel even more lonely at the moment and I'm not feeling that strong. Am going to ring cosmos to see of they can offer anything and see if my daughter is able to take time off

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 17:16:43

At least if I treat my daughter I won't feel it's been lost

Sallyingforth Wed 07-Aug-13 17:29:10

Don't treat it as a loss, Jackie. Treat it as an investment in your bright new future.

Inertia Wed 07-Aug-13 17:35:05

And as well as an investment in the future as Sallying explains above, transferring the money to pay for a different holiday will be a bit of security against your (ex) partner wriggling his maggoty self back into your life. If he turns up offering you the chance to take him back so you don't lose the deposit, the holiday has already been rearranged .

Inertia Wed 07-Aug-13 17:36:15

Sorry, that wasn't a very nice turn of phrase. Apologies.

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 18:00:58

That's quite alrightinertia it's the truth. I'm wondering what to to when his passport turns up at my house. I really don't want to post it to him when he owes me that money it's galling and why should I. It's bad enough that he hasn't paid me but to do him a favour by sending it to him seems

The email he sent me he gave me his address and asked if I could post it on!! Bloody cheek. He's honestly deluded isn't he

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 18:01:43

seems mad

Sallyingforth Wed 07-Aug-13 18:06:06

Post it with a second class letter stamp. It will probably be insufficient - he will have to collect it from the delivery office and pay a surcharge. smile

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 18:09:54

Good idea. I was thinking maybe I should say he can have it when he pays me but you know what I still don't think he would. No point really is there. How can he have such a nerve

Inertia Wed 07-Aug-13 18:25:19

I think you need to be careful about refusing to let him have his passport unless he pays you back, in case he accuses you of blackmail (irrespective of the threatening manner he used to get the money from you, you'd probably have to treat that as a separate incident- maybe consider speaking to the police about it?)

There's nothing to say that you have to accept the delivery of the passport- if it turns up with a courier you can say that that person no longer lives at this address and refuse to sign for it. If any mail turns up in the post , you can write on it 'not known at this address, return to sender'- after all, you're not allowed to open it to determine which is the passport.

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 18:36:13

God how could it have come to this. I've loved him for 4 years this is unbelievable . I'm not feeling too good at he moment

Sallyingforth Wed 07-Aug-13 18:51:13

Don't weaken now Jackie - remember he wants you to feel this way. He wants you to feel weak and go back to him.
That's why you are going to be strong.

How about a text/email to him? saying: You may not be the one, but you are ^the one who owes me £200^ Pay me back or am taking you to small claims court.

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 19:03:29

I'm not going to contact him but I've just suddenly started feeling upset. I can't quite believe its all happened. I still can't face speaking to anyone because I think I don't want to voice it yet. My daughter knows and some girls I work with after I broke down yesterday.

I haven't replied to my friends txt from the other day asking if I want to meet up as I don't know if I want to talk. I might ask her over Friday evening though

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 19:07:50

scarlet I know that probably what I should do but I can't bring myself to be harsh or get into a fight. I've had too much fighting and nastiness. So I suppose I'll just have to either ask nicely again or forget it. I don't think he's the sort to respond to a threat anyway he will just get nasty and say I've picked on the wrong person

the one who owes me £200

Yes, and it is probably best not to engage with him at all anyway, sorry just getting cross on your behalf about the money flowers

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 20:14:11

I took my engagement ring off in his car when he said " well finish with me then" and left it there. Wish I'd kept it now at least I could have flogged it

minkembernard Wed 07-Aug-13 20:14:53

You need time to grieve Jackie. Let it out. just because you have got away from some one horrid does not mean that you will be tap dancing. well not just yet anyway.

Sallyingforth Wed 07-Aug-13 20:18:58

No, don't ask him again. He'd love you to come begging and it will do you no good.
You have friends here. Stay with us and we will support you.

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 20:19:46

I feel like he's really done me over to be honest tonight. He's even got the bloody ring back. He's taken the piss emotionally and financially

Sallyingforth Wed 07-Aug-13 20:27:06

But he has lost the most important thing of all - he's lost you. He wants you back and he can't have you. That's infinitely more important than the ring.

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 20:32:07

I wish I knew he does want me back, it would mean he cared. That's not because I would go back but at least then I would know he was feeling loss

Sallyingforth Wed 07-Aug-13 20:36:21

Time to stop thinking about him. Think about you and your bright future out of his controlling.

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 20:38:36

I'm wallowing a bit tonight aren't I, not sure why. I need to get a good nice sleep as got work tomorrow so don't want to wake up in the night

Sallyingforth Wed 07-Aug-13 20:40:06

Yes. Sleep tonight and tomorrow think about that holiday.
Goodnight!

Inertia Wed 07-Aug-13 20:46:04

On the plus side you haven't paid out for spending money on holiday, a wedding to an abusive bully or a divorce , so that's saved you enough for a takeaway and bottle of wine with your friend .

Try not to think about his feelings - he doesn't deserve your head space. Sleep well.

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 21:05:14

Help please I'm a real mess tonight. I know I shouldn't and I'm not even on facebook but I looked to see if I could see his wife's profile or his sisters and it seems they've both gone private they can't be found. That's a big coincidence isn't it? Why would that be? I know I need to stop this and I've been so strong but I'm imagining all sorts now. He must've had something to do with this

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 21:10:17

My god what if the sister has repeated what he was saying on the phone to her about me being obsessed ect and it might be an idea to privatise her facebook. What he was saying was fucking totally over the top.

minkembernard Wed 07-Aug-13 21:17:38

jackie i will admit to having done this kind of thing myself. it gets you nowhere. the whole lot of them can FOTTFSOF. you don't need them. who cares what they say? As you don't need to see any of them ever again it really does not matter.

Let go. it is hard. but let go.
He is not going to be in your life and they are not going to be in your life anymore either.

Good riddance.

minkembernard Wed 07-Aug-13 21:20:49

Find something to do. something mindless. watch the whole of 'the killing' from start to finish. get a box set of Miranda. something that can spread out over several weeks. Everytime you feel like checking up on them, do that instead. also get plenty of exercise. take up thirty day shred. Make chutney.

Anything just fill your time while you heal because otherwise you will wallow and you will be tempted to contact him.

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 21:21:15

I just find it so shocking. It's like I'm some sort of mad woman in their eyes and I know I haven't behaved like that. Or have I???. Their obviously scared of something. Their protecting the wife again or actually the sister is aiding him in protecting himself in case I let slip to the wider family what he's fucking done

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 21:22:35

I just was shocked that if they'd go to that extreme then perhaps there really is something wrong with me

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 21:33:14

I can't help it tomorrow I will be ok again as I'll be busy but I'm aghast. What sort of person connives at covering things up or skewing the truth as a first resort rather than see if I'm ok and try to at least make amends after professing to love me for the last 4 years. Someone who knows he's burned all his bridges I guess

LittlePeaPod Wed 07-Aug-13 21:49:55

jackie I know you are hurting and what he has done/how he has treated you is appalling. Talking is the best therapy however I think you maybe need to consider how you try to move past what has happened. You don't need to forgive or forget! Reliving it continually and trying to analyse his behaviour will keep you in that really painful place. I think it may be a good idea to try and not look at his ex wife and sisters FB pages. No good will come of it. This will only cause more pain, as you are experiencing because you have been unable to find them. You will drive yourself potty with all the scenarios around why their profiles are private and even if you found their profile pages you would start analysing what they were posting. It's not good for you!

You need to focus on you and how you move on from this dark and very painful place. I know its hard because you are grieving the loss of your relationship and all that entailed. The breakup has also happened in the most painful way.

Again I am so sorry you are going through this very painful time. flowers

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 21:53:32

I know but tonight im just really down. I'm thinking maybe I really was crazy and he'd had enough of me after all the things he said to his sister about me were not how I saw myself so maybe I am deluded.

Have tried to ring women's aid but lines are busy

LittlePeaPod Wed 07-Aug-13 22:02:47

Keep trying the number. I really think speaking to someone will help. Do your children knw yet?

Try not to worry about what he said to his sister or what she said to him. None of that matters anymore. What matters is for you to get back to a good place. Reliving it constantly is going to keep you in that really dark and painful place.

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 22:49:46

I will try to get back to concentrating on me. They are very strange people

Dearjackie Wed 07-Aug-13 22:50:47

Yes my children do know. Have seen my daughter and I think she told my son but he hasn't commented tho vie only seen him once and briefly

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Wed 07-Aug-13 22:53:52

Hope you sleep well, OP.

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Wed 07-Aug-13 22:55:22

grin That sounds a bit bossy, doesn't it, really?

Just because you said you were concentrating on you... and said earlier you needed a good night.

Dearjackie Thu 08-Aug-13 06:02:37

Morning All

I have not slept much and don't know how I'm going to get through today. I'm worried because I seem to have taken a step backwards is that normal?

I am crying a lot and starting to feel like I've lost something!!!!! Before I felt quite numb but a bit angry. I can't get over the way his sister and him have teamed up against me. Yes I know I shouldn't care but at the moment I do.

I just feel like i have nowhere to turn everyone in RL has heard it before. He's painted me as mad and a totally obsessed and he can't live with it.

Maybe I was I can see now that I was jealous of the wife and did give him a hard time sometimes. Please talk some sense into me

TeenyW123 Thu 08-Aug-13 06:23:01

Come on Jackie! Dig down and find your self respect. He is a turd. Read your OP again, remind yourself of what a twat he is and how you DO NOT NEED HIM!

This awful feeling is a finite one. Tomorrow you'll feel a tiny, tiny bit better, the next day a tiny bit better still - and ad infinitum. Stick with your family and friends. YOU DO NOT WANT HIM!

And after the shitty way he's treated you, you can't possibly love him?!?! Come on! Find your self R.E.S.P.E.C.T!

Teeny

Dearjackie Thu 08-Aug-13 06:32:32

I don't want him I couldn't have him back after that but I'm scared I'm damaged and I'm scared that I behaved badly and will repeat it in any future relationship. How do I get past this?

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Thu 08-Aug-13 09:19:22

Ah, sweetie. Sorry you're feeling bad this morning.

Are you saying that you're scared that you don't know what's right and what's wrong in a relationship any more? Go easy on yourself: you have been dealing with an abusive man and trying to believe that he is a nice man. He has always been so sure that his way of doing things is right, so you have become confused at what you thought you knew. After all, he is so selfish, so determined to get his way and his only, so ready to humiliate to make his point, is he not? And living with that for a while has a tendency to make one wonder if that's what everybody's like really, and maybe you're the unusual/gullible one.

It will take time. Well done for staying strong and still being determined that you couldn't have him back. Give yourself a few months away from him and - probably in a matter of weeks - you will see things more clearly.

And if you don't, there's always the Freedom Programme. Which is very depressing for looking into the minds of men like the one you've been unfortunate enough to encounter... but is also very liberating because it shows you just how utterly wrong they are and how much nicer the rest of the world is!

minkembernard Thu 08-Aug-13 10:03:21

Jackie yes this is pretty normal.
you have lost something. you have lost the hope of the future you thought you had together where you thought he would treat you well and you would be happy. and now you are grieving. IT is normal. The grief is often worse when you leave an abusive relationship because it has done an injury to your sense of self.

You can recover. but it takes time. I personally really resent that time. I think it is not fair. but I am just knuckling down and getting on with it. because there is no other choice.

Reading Lundy will help. I have another book on recovery from abuse- I will go and look up the title. also counselling is a god place to start and the FP as charlotte says.

Also the EA thread. it really is an enormous help. I would not have got through had it not been for that thread. it has really helped me clear away a lot of the fog and confusion. I can see that the women on that thread are, like me and like you, normal women who went out with horribly damaging men. They have all been through rough times. some still are in rough times butare still a great source of help and camaraderie.

as we say, if you have rant we have brew. so please do come and post. you may find it really helps to see how others are getting on with their recovery.

Dearjackie Thu 08-Aug-13 17:24:13

Hi
Well I got through work even though I was knackered. It did me good to take my mind off things actually.

charlotte I not scared that I don't know what's right or wrong in a relationship. I'm scared I was the wrong one. I'm scared my behaviour about the wife caused his. Then again I think even if I was a total pain in the arse if he wasn't horrible he could've needed it in a nicer way surely.

I'm only going over this because I want to get things straight in my head and learn from it if I need to alter my behaviour. Oh my god I sound like him talking when I say I need to alter my !behaviour. Anyway thanks mink and charlotte for your help I am going to try to sort that holiday out now and will be back later x

pollywollydoodle Thu 08-Aug-13 18:27:31

dearjackie it is normal to feel jealous sometimes and normal to say so but the normal response is reassurance that there is nothing to worry about...that's where it went wrong, his response , not your feelings.

Dearjackie Thu 08-Aug-13 18:37:01

He is a nasty piece of work isn't he. On a positive note I think my daughter can come away somewhere with me so hopefully I'll be able to change the destination as we don't want to fly too far with her being preganant

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Thu 08-Aug-13 18:43:57

Oh, that's good news.

grin at "I think this. Then again this. Argh, I sound like him!" Hope you don't mind me grinning, but it sounds very familiar!

You are doing very well. It's not you!

Dearjackie Thu 08-Aug-13 18:55:27

Not at all grin away, I even had a little grin writing it. And thank you thank you thank you for your support. I'd have totally lost it without MN

Sallyingforth Thu 08-Aug-13 18:59:01

Well done Jackie on getting through the day, and arranging a holiday with your daughter. It will get better every day.
But I have to slap you gently on the wrist for mentioning him again. He is now in the past - something nasty that came into your life and has now gone. The future is about you.

Dearjackie Thu 08-Aug-13 19:05:25

I know sally but i feel I have to mention him as its my way of working my way through this and make sense of it all in my head. I can't wipe it out and pretend it never existed. Last night particularly I felt dreadful and I find its better if I acknowledge that x

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Thu 08-Aug-13 19:10:33

It's true - you do need to process it and that will take time. You'll go through (and already have) a heap of emotions, too, and nasty as they are, they're all normal and natural and help in the healing and moving on.

Sallyingforth Thu 08-Aug-13 19:12:44

Understood

Fuck him.

Say it in the mirror until you mean it.

I'm sorry about the Facebook thing but the desire to get the last word is one of the ways abusers get you to go back. Letting that injustice go I'd hard but it's what you have to do.

Fraggle74 Thu 08-Aug-13 22:07:51

Hi again dearjackie. I felt all these things you felt a year ago when I left my verbally abusive ex. I too tried to 'be strong' an tell myself I was better than that etc etc. BUT I felt like crap and I felt confused and scared and weak cos I didn't understand how I could love him and also hate him and also didn't like the way I had behaved towards him - jealous etc. so what did I do? I held onto the fact that I knew I had made the right decision to split (maybe easier for me as I had 9 mth old baby and knew i couldn't let him be around those rows anymore). And I cried and I felt crap and I bored my friends with it and my mum and my work mates. And I cried. And I had horrible thoughts and couldn't bear the feelings sometimes. And gradually some days got easier and then an awful day would appear again. And each time I had I remind myself of something awful he had said to remember why this was the right decision. And I had to commit to that decision. But it was sooo hard, like beating an addiction! And that was hard to get my head round why I was the kind of person to feel like that.

This guy my ex can still upset me as he plays mind games and was being awkward about sorting access to our son last weekend. And it really upset me and made me feel wobbly again and panicky. But two days later I am calm again.

What I mean to say is, it's ok to feel how you do, jut accept those feelings, use MN and phone helplines if you need to. But pls have faith you are not alone and you will get through this and you have made the right decision.

I found evenings and mornings the hardest. It will get easier I promise

X

musicismylife Thu 08-Aug-13 22:43:59

I feel your pain, jackie-the emotional abuse, the money, the constantly needing a shag, the drama, the lies, the making me feel crazy, the checking ow on Facebook, the falling out with his mum, the sleepless nights-all while looking after four children and trying to hold down a job.

I went to the docs, explained everything. They started me on a short couse of anti dprsts. I was able to find strength, I was able to say no and I was able to value myself.

It was the only best decision ever. We are friends and he is a good dad .

MistressDeeCee Fri 09-Aug-13 04:38:15

This man sounds distasteful. & if his sister had any respect for you at all, she wouldnt have mentioned the ex-wife. No doubt he's been bitching to his sis about you anyway. A holiday with him sounds a nightmare - you'd be on tenterhooks re. whether he'd blow his top over something or other. I know it can be hard to leave an emotionally abusive relationship - but if you dont then in years to come you will look back down the 1 life you have, and ask yourself why you wasted years allowing a dysfunctional, unkind man to intertwine himself into your life. You werent born with him, & you will not die for lack of him. You cant even speak to him about a remark that upsets you, without him jumping down your throat and making a 3 act drama out of it?! You are a very patient woman, I wouldnt be able to take the noise, stress histrionics of it all. This man is an emotional abuser and he doesnt deserve you. Treat yourself..go on holiday alone or with a mate, pamper yourself, seek support from family/friends. Whatever it takes, and more. But please dont sell yourself short for a man like this - its just not worth letting him ruin your life.

Dearjackie Fri 09-Aug-13 17:27:30

A bit of hand holding needed please. I've just kept going all week at work and now got home knowing I've got the weekend and all next week off ALONE and I burst into tears. The holiday is proving difficult to sort out but am still hoping I can rearrange. Feeling very down this evening

Viking1 Fri 09-Aug-13 18:06:22

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Dearjackie Fri 09-Aug-13 18:27:47

I feel like I want to hide away and hibernate. I have just notice thet on the email he sent me the other day asking for his mail to be sent and saying sorry it ended like that. Have just noticed the email is just my name not the pet name he used to send it to me as, so he must have changed what he got me down as I his phone contacts now

minkembernard Fri 09-Aug-13 18:54:46

Jackie sad though that is, I would take it as a good sign. It indicates he might let go quite easily. often EA partners are very unflushable. they just keep coming back and/or interfering in your life.

Maybe think of something that needs doing for your week off. sometimes i feel better for making some progress with something. like repairs or repainting, cleaning carpets. so i can hide away but don't feel like i have wasted a day. i put on pre FW music that he did not like and sing along loudly.

Dearjackie Fri 09-Aug-13 19:04:16

I think he will let go easily this time ( tho he hasn't before) because I get the feeling he's 'done with' me. I think I've proved to me more hassle than I am of use to him iyswim.

I have just made a list of things that need doing at home, plus loads of paperwork for my divorce! Putting on music he didn't like should be a sinch he hated all the stuff I liked

Dearjackie Fri 09-Aug-13 19:06:20

I feel upset though because I'm thinking he's probably got someone else lined up and I worry that I'm not going to find anyone I'm that physically attracted to again. I need to sit and remind myself about his shitty behaviour

minkembernard Fri 09-Aug-13 23:38:22

I'm thinking he's probably got someone else lined up

quite possibly but that is her loss, sadly.
beware though, just because they no longer want you/move on most abusive men like to keep a wee toe in the door just so they can give you the odd kick now and again. sad

I worry that I'm not going to find anyone I'm that physically attracted to again

ah but you might. and they might actually be a decent human being too.
give yourself some time first though. sort out what you actually want and decide on your boundaries. (says mink giving advice she really needs to take herselfwink)

Dearjackie Sat 10-Aug-13 05:03:28

Am awake again wish I could sleep sad sat here last night looking through all my old threads on MN to remind myself of some things he's done and its dreadful when I look back, also that's not everything, they were only the very worst, most wretched times that I posted on here. There was lots of milder stuff also.

mink thanks for sticking with me, it helps more than you know to read your words. I can't even tell my mum about his yet, not sure why but I know both her and my sister won't really understand although they've always thought he's a bit odd. My sister once said she didn't think he was abusive but just had a bit if a temper and was a bit strange. I can't explain him, it seems to be only on here that people know where I'm coming from

TeenyW123 Sat 10-Aug-13 06:59:04

Morning Jackie.

Keep digging for that self respect.

Have you been advised to look at the emotionally abusive relationships thread? You may recognise bits of your ex on there.

You're not alone.

Teeny

Dearjackie Sat 10-Aug-13 07:10:54

Thanks teeny I'm sure the self respect is in there somewhere it may be buried under a mountain of confusion, disbelief and hurt at the moment but its there. It's self preservation that's taking over just now I think because this relationship was destroying me, I can see that.

Even when I think thoughts such as has he got someone else? Is he going back to the ex? And did he ever love me? I am able to think well actually it doesn't matter, the relationship didn't work anymore and I was unhappy. In the past when we argued and he walked I would dwell on thoughts such as those. So perhaps it is a step forward

I don't think I could love anyone again though. Is that because I still love him? That worries me

minkembernard Sat 10-Aug-13 10:07:41

Jackie you will still have feelings for him for a long time. all kinds of feelings. anger love resentment regret jealousy fondness concern contempt sympathy. they take to work through. when you know you are ready for something new is when you arrive at indifference.

I am still on this train journey and it seems to go through several of the stations more than once grin right now i am in a rather unpleasant place called Loathing!

Dearjackie Sat 10-Aug-13 11:51:53

I like the train journey/station analogy mink smile will bear there it mind.

I hope your ok. Do you mind me asking how long you've been on your particular train?

Dearjackie Sat 10-Aug-13 11:52:34

That not there

minkembernard Sat 10-Aug-13 12:08:07

7 months. but we have two dcs that he is currently ignoring to get at me. hence the loathing. If i did not have to deal with him because of the dcs i would be further down the line. But I am much better than I was. I have definitely left the town of WasItMe far behind. Although I still pass through Guilt quite frequently, but less than I used to.

They say give yourself a year.flowers

Dearjackie Sat 10-Aug-13 15:41:46

Have had to come back to vent. Was hoping to take mt daughter away with me instead ang hoping to transfer the £400 deposit to another holiday ( she doesn't want to fly too far as will be 7mths pregnant) however holiday agent is slapping on a £200 admin, change of name and change of destination fee. Leaving me with £300 more to pay so that will be a total of £735 for a 5 night half board holiday!!!!! The original hol was 10 nights all inclusive. It's outrageous and I can't do it. I will have to kiss goodbye to £300 of the deposit.

Dearjackie Sat 10-Aug-13 15:43:20

And forget the holiday completely. I HATE him for putting me in this position, how fucking dare he

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Sat 10-Aug-13 20:55:41

Oh, how completely awful! Not surprised you're furious.

Sorry to hear your DSis didn't "get" him - it's symptomatic of the EA, unfortunately. I have given up explaining it - only people who've experienced it seem to get it. Someone on the EA thread suggested explaining how it made you feel, as this is harder to write off than describing things which sound like trivialities to a lot of people. The intention behind the action makes it entirely untrivial, but a bad intention is hard to spot unless you've lived with it - and if you claim it to those who haven't seen it, you just sound bitchy and petty. <sigh>

mink - often EA partners are very unflushable grin grin Revolting but very apt. Love it!

Dearjackie Sat 10-Aug-13 21:03:08

Hi charlotte have cancelled holiday, in a way wondering what to do about it was the worst thing. Now I've actually decided and done it I feel it's another problem off my mind.

You are spot on when you said its difficult to explain and for many to understand unless they've experienced it. I often used to get told "well end it then" or "I thought you were stronger than this" and they are unaware of the way your mind is messed up by the person doing the EA

Catnap26 Sat 10-Aug-13 21:13:21

Stbxw-what does that stand for sorry new to mn and just wanted to know before posting

minkembernard Sat 10-Aug-13 21:14:30

Soon to be ex wife

Catnap26 Sat 10-Aug-13 21:15:42

Thanx mink

Catnap26 Sat 10-Aug-13 21:18:33

In relation to his sister asking about stbxw I think it is insensitive to bring her up in front of you and obviously would make anyone feel uncomfortable. I think you should just take some time to yourself now to work out what you want.

Dearjackie Sat 10-Aug-13 21:58:48

Yes I am going to spoil myself, do what I want and put myself first. I don't need a man smile

sipofwine Sat 10-Aug-13 22:50:58

Dearjackie - just want to say I know exactly what you mean about not being able to explain him. I have tried to discuss my relationship with EA partner with my sister (who has a very happy marriage). On the one hand she says that she can't believe it ever went this far and it sounds abusive but on the other hand she hints at my faults and failings and I find myself constantly justifying how I am going to explain the split, once it happens, to my family and friends. I think they just see him as having a bit of a temper, too, but I find him much more 'complicated' than that - and I don't even understand why. In the end, I suppose it doesn't matter what other people think. You know, deep down, that you'll be happier without him in the long run.

Dearjackie Sat 10-Aug-13 23:10:54

sipofwine yes it's much more complex than having a bit of a temper isn't it. My ex also used passive aggression and would stonewall or sulk and deny anything was wrong.

I think the difficulty with talking to family about these issues ( unless they are the type like ex's who will never admit fault) is that our families know us too well and therefore know our faults. So they attribute part of the blame to us because in a non abusive relationship it often is six of one and half a dozen of the other. It's almost impossible to imagine want these men can be like until you've been involved with one

Even now I still can't fully accept he's emotionally abusive and feel I might be over dramatising it all. But I've lost count of how many times he's verbally attacked me and I've have literally felt like I've been beaten up.

I hope you will find strength to leave if you feel,that's what you need to do, it takes time to reach that point but I wish you all the luck xx

Dearjackie Sun 11-Aug-13 19:57:38

Hi everyone. I'm back for a bit more support encouragement and handholding please. Have had a nice day out with daughter mother ect now have come home to an empty quiet house when he would have been here and I just feel a big gap, something is missing and I feel sad.

Don't get me wrong I'm not going to contact him and don't want to go back, I just feel sad. Also, and please feel free to set me straight if you think I'm wrong but I've started to think his behaviour was temper bourne out of frustration that he thought he couldn't convince me that his family and himself weren't putting the ex first all the time.He often said that he was trying his very best to make me happy and didn't feel anything he did was enough. This has caused me to feel I'm difficult to please

TeenyW123 Sun 11-Aug-13 20:06:43

Hi Jackie

Read your first post again. Remember what a shit he is/has been. Of course there's a void in your life, it's early days, but you don't want Mr twistwhatyousayanddo so you appear to be the one that's unreasonable. You'll be back to square one.

Remember the lovely time you've had today. Would it have happened if he'd been there? You've come back to an empty house. Run yourself a bath. What's on the telly that you fancy? Even a glass of wine? Glory in your own company. Nobody is better than anybody, especially an anybody who makes you feel so bad.

Teeny.

X

Dearjackie Sun 11-Aug-13 20:22:18

Thank you teeny you are right. If he had been there i probably wouldn't have had such a nice time and I would have been made to feel we had to have sex even though I'm tired this evening. X

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Sun 11-Aug-13 20:25:53

Ahh, I still love being in the house when he's not here. Try, as Teeny suggests, to make it into a positive!

No, it's not just temper - as you said yourself upthread. A good man who felt he couldn't convince you that his family weren't putting the ex first would be concerned - and would most likely tell his sister to quiet down (esp as she seemed totally out of order the other day). Frustration comes from feeling that what another person is doing is wrong and wanting to change them, wanting to control their behaviour.

He is a fuckwit and you are well rid!

Dearjackie Sun 11-Aug-13 20:44:06

smile thank you

minkembernard Sun 11-Aug-13 20:49:52

glory in your own company
What a brilliant sentiment. thanks

Dearjackie Sun 11-Aug-13 21:09:44

Hello mink I am relaxing watching tv now. Tomorrow will get bottle wine to have a glass tomorrow evening. I took you up on your suggestion about buying some flowers for myself which I did today.

I just wish I could fast forward a few months but I know I just need to be patient and work through this. X

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Sun 11-Aug-13 21:16:14

Ooh, wine. STBXH has gone away for one night and left an opened bottle behind. I don't normally, but it would be wasteful not to this time, wouldn't it? grin

Anything good on TV?

Dearjackie Sun 11-Aug-13 21:24:06

Yep it would definately be wasteful not to smile have a glass for me won't you! Cheers

I'm watching a really old Catherine Cookson drama not usually my thing but am actually enjoying it tonight

Sallyingforth Sun 11-Aug-13 21:24:37

Jackie I haven't posted for a few days but have been reading and feeling for you. You are going to get through those few months, and you are going to be so proud of yourself for having done it. Enjoy the flowers and wine!

Dearjackie Sun 11-Aug-13 21:30:07

Thank you sallyin it gives me strength to know people are there for me. It is truly helping me

Inertia Sun 11-Aug-13 22:42:16

Hi Jackie, sorry the holiday didn't work out but well done on drawing a line under it.

Could you perhaps plan to spend your week off having a clear out and rearranging things around the house to make it just as you want it ? Maybe even buy new bedding if funds will stretch ? You'll feel better for clearing Ex out of your home, and it'll keep you busy.

Dearjackie Sun 11-Aug-13 22:48:29

Eveninginertia I have decided to spend the week I should have gone on holiday at my sisters with my mum also. Now I've actually taken a decision over it I feel better

Am off work this week on leave also and will be doing a spot of decorating and also have arranged a couple of days out with friends.

Inertia Mon 12-Aug-13 07:37:58

Sounds perfect Jackie - hope you have a lovely time with your family and friends smile

Dearjackie Mon 12-Aug-13 08:59:41

Right I'm most defiantly having a weak moment this morning. Today is the day he should be getting a promotion he's worked towards for the last 2 years and it was the first thing I thought of when I woke, I am not there to share to it! It's like I was around for the hard times but not the good. Makes me sad

Also, and I hate admitting this because I don't want to get into thinking its my fault this happened again. But I think I wore him down with my negativity sometimes. I have read another post on here ' DP seems to have a grudge against the world' whilst I wouldn't say that of myself I did recognise aspects of myself in that post

He often used to say I always saw the negative side of things and he could never make me happy. Not true really because I told him I was happy, maybe he could see something I couldn't. Oh help

minkembernard Mon 12-Aug-13 09:30:45

Jackie I think sometimes you have to look at it this way, even if you were to blame for some of itt which I doubt, that still means you should not be together.

My x used to come back at me with a hundred things I had supposedly done i didn't love him enough, i did not say thank you enough ( for the very few things which he did), etc. and i just used to reply if that is true why do you want to be here.

whatever the reasons it is over and it is better that way.

minkembernard Mon 12-Aug-13 09:36:03

Also look again at the links at the top of the ea thread or read someposts see ifyou recognise him in there. i think it is hard to recognise ea until you realise how common it is and how similar the behaviour if the perpetrators is.

The more you look the more clearly you see it. it is not a nice thing to see everywhere. but you need to see it very clearly so you can recognise it in your past and avoid it in your future.

I think the key thing about the incident that lead to your split is that he was trying to close down your voice. he was trying to make it impossible for you to argue by making the stakes very high. that is control..were you trying to control him? Were you intimidating him? Was he scared of you? I doubt it.

delilahlilah Mon 12-Aug-13 11:05:44

Jackie, I have been lurking since the start of the thread. I am so glad you have had the strength to do this.
Re the negativity, have you considered that his treatment of you would make anyone negative? In a relationship, people respond to one another - hence the expressions 'they bring out the best / worst in each other. Don't bring yourself down. He has done enough of that for both of you.
I would refuse delivery of the passport I am afraid and let him sort his own mess out. He has no consideration for you, removed the last elements of his control of you.
You are better than this, and things will keep getting better. Travel agent behaviour is a bit mean, I think you got a jobs worth sad
Raise a glass to a better future thanks

Dearjackie Mon 12-Aug-13 12:05:09

Yes I suppose he did bring out the worst in me or at least made me think the worst most of the time. He was very unkind at times, often when I needed him most. Your right he showed me no consideration whatsoever yet kept banging on about how he always put me first

With regards to the passport I have a feeling that he will have contacted the passport office knowing him so it won't come here anyway

minkembernard Mon 12-Aug-13 12:40:09

Very true. my ex said i was hostile. he was right i was often hostile. because i knew at so.e point i was going to come under attack and i also knew i was being treated unfairly. i was righteously pissed off.

Dearjackie Mon 12-Aug-13 12:49:12

He did a lot for me but somehow I couldn't shake the feeling that there was always an ulterior motive. For example cooking dinner when I'd been at work all day and telling me to go for a lie down when I was tired, doing jobs in my house. I thought a lot of it was so I wouldn't be too tired for sex. I'm just horrible aren't I? Now it does sound like he couldn't do anything right

Sallyingforth Mon 12-Aug-13 13:03:18

I'm just horrible aren't I?
No you bloody well aren't.
You are suffering from living too long with a selfish bully.
You nothing to reproach yourself about.

Dearjackie Mon 12-Aug-13 13:20:24

Thank you sally smile just having a doubtful moment ( or ten) but always the lovely wise people on here pull me back

Dearjackie Tue 13-Aug-13 05:51:05

Well I have managed only 5 hrs sleep again. I've been surviving on this for 10 days now. Not too bad this week whilst I'm on leave but will be difficult when I go back to work. Yesterday evening I missed him dreadfully am hoping its just another passing emotion I am going through

I had to sit and actively remember how uncomfortable it was with him here most of the time. I am on my own the vast majority of the time, so I have nothing to distract me. I will have to work hard at creating a social life for myself because I was always with him. I'm lucky in that I do enjoy my own company just not ALL the time.

It's really vile feeling like this isn't it? I am afraid that being in my late forties this will be my life forever now. He never failed to remind me I was a few years older than him! And even said as he was walking out the door " you need an old fart as a boyfriend"

He has wreaked any self esteem I had. Because of my health conditions at times I can't walk that far and I get very tired. In arguments he always said " I have to put up with your illness on a daily basis"

I just woke today thinking of this and needed to write it down. I just feel nobody will put up with me or want me. Not that I want anyone now but may feel I do in the future

Inertia Tue 13-Aug-13 08:51:16

Hi Jackie, sympathies on the lack of sleep. Am also feeling tired this morning - been up most of the night with vomiting dc.

Your ex is deliberately saying things to hurt you - it doesn't mean there is any truth in anyq of it, he is just trying to cause you maximum pain. Is it actually him you miss, or company ? Could you perhaps consider a couple of evening classes to keep you busy and stop you thinking about Ex ?

Dearjackie Tue 13-Aug-13 09:26:16

inertia thinking about it I'm not sure it is actually him I miss because I was never 100% relaxed. Maybe it's just breaking a habit and like any habit you miss it at first. I will look into evening classes, its actually a good time of year because they start sept/ oct

Hope your DC is better today

Inertia Tue 13-Aug-13 09:42:18

She seems to be on the mend thanks. Just waiting to see whether dc1 and I have managed to avoid the bug !

To be honest it does sound as though your ex spent a lot of time behaving horribly towards you , which might be why the few nice things he did stand out more - in happier relationships the helpful kind interactions are part of the everyday fabric of the relationship, rather than being so unusual that they are obvious . It is possible to have the calm happy times without the abuse and grief ( but not with this man).

Dearjackie Tue 13-Aug-13 09:56:28

I think he was probably either cheating on me or had someone lined up to move on to. I just can't imagine him going without sex he was totally sex mad. However he had begun to make remarks such as it had become predictable, he always knew the routine, he even said that's why people cheat! Then was very apologetic and reassuring but the doubt was in my mind. He also dropped a comment saying he was an addict, when I asked what he meant he said a sex addict.

I think after 4 yrs he was bored, I don't think he'll EVER find someone to satisfy him. Not my problem though is it

I have a spot of decorating to do today so must get started. Fingers crossed you don't catch the tummy bug

minkembernard Tue 13-Aug-13 10:10:29

Enjoy the decorating. helps i think to get something done.
undermining your sense if self and making you feel lucky they put up with you hmm when actually it is you putting up with them is par gore the course with abusers.

He Will end up a lonely old wanker. Literally. grin

I have been on internet dating since i split from my ex and i do just fine wink plenty on interest and amusing chat. Not really ready for anything serious but it is nice to know the opportunity is there. and had a few snogs.

Really when you hear his voice in your head just tell him to feck off. who gives a toss what he thinks. you need to reclaim your thoughts.

It is quite possible he did engineer that fight because he had lived someone else up. if so, that reflects on him not you. he is not a sex addict. he just thinks get is entitled to demand sex whenever he likes and wanted you to believe that for his convenience.

horrid horrid excuse for a man.

But yy do get out. socialize. make your own life.

And re. sleeping. i listen to the radio very quietly on r4 if i wake up during the night. or the podcasts. it stops my mind turning over too much. might be worth a try.

minkembernard Tue 13-Aug-13 10:13:27

Lined someone else up....sorry my phone , Bernard as we call him has a talent all of his own for gaslighting hmm and like my x likes to put words in my mouth!

Dearjackie Tue 13-Aug-13 10:18:30

Oh my god mink you see right through him don't you. Everything you just said makes sense and has made me laugh ( lonely old wanker literally!) smile)

Thank you, you have definately cheered me and made me stop doubting myself for the time being and I'm sure that will last longer and longer each time smile

Inertia Tue 13-Aug-13 10:22:05

You could well be right about him having someone else lined up, his behaviour would fit right in with that. A horrible thing for him to do. It would explain why he has stayed away this time rather than crawling back. I guess it does give you space to move on without him pestering you.

You're also right to think that he'd never be happy whatever you did - men like this would find something to sneer at if they were in bed with Angelina Jolie. And you could never have been happy because he would always sabotage it.

Hope you have fun decorating - I am meant to be gardening but it looks like rain.

Dearjackie Tue 13-Aug-13 11:13:39

Yes well two failed marriages and a four year failed relationship and that's just the ones I know about, says something doesn't it? ( about him not me) Now where's that bloody paint keep putting it off, am getting hooked on MN. smile

minkembernard Tue 13-Aug-13 11:49:47

Jackie paint some rude words about him on the wall and then paint over them grin

Dearjackie Tue 13-Aug-13 12:49:00

Haha just taken a break for lunch and seen your post mink excellent idea, very therapeutic smile ( how do you do the grin? )

minkembernard Tue 13-Aug-13 19:42:55

Square bracket grin square bracket grin

Dearjackie Tue 13-Aug-13 20:05:10

[smile]

Dearjackie Tue 13-Aug-13 20:06:03

Haha no didn't work, silly me!

Dearjackie Tue 13-Aug-13 20:06:50

grin

minkembernard Tue 13-Aug-13 21:04:37

grinthanks

Dearjackie Wed 14-Aug-13 08:08:43

Thank god I am going out with a friend today. I am exhausting myself, pushing myself at home to do all sorts in the house and not sleeping more than a few hours at night. It's been nearly 2 weeks now. The horrible feeling of shock has worn off and even the anger ( wish it hadn't) I just feel total disbelief and quite numb

I haven't had a lot of support in RL I have told a few people but I don't think their taking it seriously as it not the first time it's happened and they definately don't understand the dynamics of it all and how it makes you feel

I am sick to death of thinking about him tbh. I know I've just got to work through this but needed to have a vent

You can do this, I promise. Every day takes you a step further into the sunshine and away from his shadow.

I think I mentioned the narcissist/co-dependent thing before and it's good to read when you're having a wobble.

Believe it or not, I envy your current position. I wish my DH was gone, I don't want him here but neither of us has anywhere that we could easily go to so we remain under the same roof.

Our 'final straw for me' bust up was almost 2 weeks ago and he's chosen to ignore me and sleep on the couch ever since. I'm not anywhere near as bothered as he'd like me to be!

So I am working out how to get on with my life but struggling to do so properly. Your biggest hindrance has left smile

Dearjackie Wed 14-Aug-13 10:22:20

I am COMPLETELY insane because I still think I love him! I must sit down and have a good look back at all my posts and that should kill that for a while.

Thanks * marriednotdead* will check the codependent thing when I get home later.

I hope things work out for you they drive you mad don't they, taking the huff and sulking. I think my problem now is I don't think I was ready for it to end especially in that way and so cruelly so I feel like the decision was taken out of my hands iykwim

minkembernard Wed 14-Aug-13 11:20:44

Every day takes you a step further into the sunshine and away from his shadow.

how true, they cast a long shadow.

jackie you are not insane. you loved him before, why would you not love him now? there is a difference between loving someone and thinking it is good for you to be with that person. I still get frequent pangs of missing my ex. and sometimes I loathe him and sometimes, the best times I genuinely could not give a toss.

you don't have to get hung up on those feeling. they mean anything. you can feel them but not act on them.

minkembernard Wed 14-Aug-13 11:24:22

they don't mean anything, even. by that I mean that just because you still have feelings for him does not mean you have to have him back or that you cannot cope without him or that you will never get over it.

You will. if you get the chance go back a few threads in the EA support thread and read some of the colincaterpillar posts. she really went through the mill trying to get over her ex and still has the odd day when the shadow passes over her but mostly now she has fab new life without him. it might help to see that you are not alone in experiencing these feelings.

Dearjackie Wed 14-Aug-13 17:08:16

Hi mink I am pretty sure I won't act on them, I haven't really thought about contacting him in fact I couldn't lower myself to do that after he way he's treated me. I guess I just don't even want to feel the feelings iyswim. I wan to be over him NOW, I don't want to go through this for that useless piece of shit that he is. I'm annoyed that I'm feeling like this he's not worthy of it.

Anyway rant over. You are right it does help,to know I'm not alone and that I will get there and I will have a look at colincaterpillar posts. Thanks for sticking with me it means a lot thanks

minkembernard Wed 14-Aug-13 19:01:03

Jackie no problem.

I know exactly what you mean you want it to be over now. I have often thought exactly that. but you can't go round it you just have to go through it. I hope it will make us both stronger in the long run thanks

Dearjackie Wed 14-Aug-13 21:40:00

No doubt we will be stronger in the long run mink I almost wish I had younger children then I wouldn't be alone in the house all the time, they would be a bit of a distraction. It's the evenings that are the worst, I'm tired so don't feel up to doing much but just gives me too much time to think

It helps to know that it does get easier. Must read the colincaterpillar posts

minkembernard Wed 14-Aug-13 21:54:05

you may have to go to the actual thread to find them as I cannot remember exact form of her nn if it was colincaterpillar or colincaterpillars. will be from around thread 18 or 19 I think.

Dearjackie Fri 16-Aug-13 23:45:03

Well it's 2 weeks tomorrow since he left. I still can't believe it, I still think about him constantly. I've had a bottle of wine tonight which isn't helping as I still feel like I love him now.

How can he switch off his love just like that? Or maybe he never did love me? I keep thinking he's with someone else. I sound so sad and pathetic and I hate myself for that as I've been quite strong till now

Sallyingforth Sat 17-Aug-13 14:53:34

Still lurking here Jackie.
There's no need to hate yourself - you have done nothing wrong. You've survived two weeks without him and you will survive many more.
Always remember, you've come out of this better than him. He's the one who has failed because he's lost you through his own foolishness and stupidity.

Dearjackie Sat 17-Aug-13 15:05:34

Hi sally am sober this morning so have been getting on with preparing for an interview next week

I don't know if its HIM I miss as such or the life I thought we were going to share together. Now I'm starting all over again just as I had to when my marriage broke up. I never thought I'd be starting all over again this time.

I am coming to terms with the fact that I did go on at him at times and I wasn't happy with the ex wife situation at all, maybe I'm too possessive I don't know. But that would never have changed and he clearly wasn't going to stick it out with me to make me his priority, therefore I would never have found happiness with him sad

Sallyingforth Sat 17-Aug-13 16:59:55

So, you realised that he wasn't right for you, and you dropped him. That was the correct decision and really, you don't need to keep beating yourself up over it.
Now you have a new life opening up. Good luck with the interview!

waddlecakes Sat 17-Aug-13 19:12:59

Jackie, having just spent 20 minutes reading this thread from start to finish, I don't think he sounds abusive at all. I think he sounds like an extremely difficult person you were in a very tempermental relationship with.

I've seen youve made quite a few posts lately exploring the idea of whether you were to blame - absolutely not. However, it is possible that your personality and his clashed. Maybe he wasnt sensitive enough for you and you found him cruel. Maybe you were too possessive and demanding for him, and he found it stressful.

Maybe at this stage it will be easier for you to think of it not as a horrible bastard man who has betrayed you, but as a man who has taken the decision to finally end something that seemed unbalanced, unhealthy and going nowhere. Now both of you are free to start building your future lives. Im telling you this because it might do you some good to feel like you have had power in this relationship, you have participated in it as much as he has. You seem insightful enough to have good judgment of yourself and his manipulations.

From what I can gather of your personality, I actually think it would be quite unhealthy for you to continue feeling as if this man has snatched away his love leaving you bereft and alone. Try and see it more as this was a man you had amazing chemistry with, but ultimately your personalities didnt fit together, and so after numerous rehearsals, finally the end of it has come.

There will be a man out there able to make you feel a lot happier, someone with whom you'll be able to build a secure, warm relationship. It wasn't him. And you will start to feel fine with that. For the time being, think that you have a grand child on the way, a divorce to sort out, you are definitely still young enough to start new things and meet new people. Take it slowly, and good luck. You seem to be managing very well so far.

Dearjackie Sat 17-Aug-13 19:45:34

Thank you for your post waddle there could be a massive dose of truth in what you have written. We just didn't fit together though we both kept trying and trying its very sad. I think if love was enough we would have stayed together, I always found it hard to accept he didn't love me it didn't quite fit that he didn't somehow, yet he could be so nasty. The explanation you have given seems to make sense

I hope I do find that certain someone eventually though I'm not sure I'll find that chemistry again

waddlecakes Sat 17-Aug-13 19:51:26

Of course you will Jackie, you definitely will.

Its also better for your confidence to believe the truth: that this man wasn't all bad. If you were to believe he was 100% bad, that would mean you've wasted your last 4 years on somebody worthless. But obviously you loved him, and he perhaps loved, or at the very least cared a great deal for you, otherwise he wouldn't have kept coming back. So you had a relationship that has been worthwhile since you have loved, and perhaps gave you what you needed, coming out of a divorce. But you've grown now and are ready to move forward, into something more equal. This is bound to happen. Focus on your grandchild and I strongly suggest you find one new thing to do whilst you heal the wounds from this relationship. Join a book club, or a writing club. Join something new - have you thought about that? It'll open a new friendship group to you, and give you some opportunity to eventually meet someone new.

BerylStreep Tue 20-Aug-13 23:54:08

Jackie,

having seen you on the other thread, I thought I would post here. There have been about 4 threads since your first one, and I just wanted to post how pleased I am to read your progress.

Yes, it's tough. Lots of us know, because we have been there, honestly! But in time, you will start to feel so much better, you may be starting to already!

I'm sorry that things ended the way they did - it must have been very traumatic (and he acted like a dick), but in a way, the extremeness of his behaviour perhaps did you a favour (in the long run, I'm sure you don't see it now) because otherwise you could have gone on for so long knowing that his treatment of you was really dysfunctional, yet not having the strength to actually do anything about it.

So much of how you describe your ex relationship reminds me of a guy I went out with - so turbulent - great, great times, but awful ones too. He had an ex wife, who I felt pretty insecure about - looking back, he clearly played one off against another and enjoyed creating a climate of jealousy and drama. In the end, I couldn't tell what was my fault or not, and I was exhausted from all the emotional drama. I wanted to understand it and try to fix it, but it was unfixable.

Fast forward about 16 years, and I am able to see it in a dispassionate way (I'm not saying to has taken the full 16 years, that's just how long ago it was). Have been with DH now for the last 12 years, and yes, we have our minor spats, but it is for the most part a warm and loving relationship - so different.

You will get past this. Well done so far.

Jux Wed 21-Aug-13 00:54:33

Adding my support to everyone else's.

Re the passport. They're recorded delivery and you will have to sign for it. It I were you I would not. I would tell the postie that he no longer lived there and you are not in contact. if you kmow his new address, you can give it.

If you did sign for it, and then send it on second class - or first, for that matter - and it got lost, you may be held responsible. It woild be impossible to prove that you didn't still have it. They are legal documents. Let the postman deal with it.

Also, I love eating alone. i take a book with me, and read throughout my meal. Same with travelling anywhere. I also have a notebook and a pen with me. When I was studying (with the OU), I would sometimes go off just for a coffe, taking my books with me, sitting alone, studying, making otes etc, and watching the world go by. Very yherapeutic.

Dearjackie Wed 21-Aug-13 07:02:18

Thank you for your support beryl and jux and for all the fabulous support I have had on here, it has truly helped me. I knew the relationship was wrong but for some reason couldn't find a way out, thought I loved him ect and in a way I did. So although his behaviour was vile and extreme in the end it has helped me to see it how it really is.

As regards the passport, it has arrived and I didn't need to sign for it so I should be ok to just post it on. What do you think?

I don't want any more contact with him so don't want him chasing me for it

BerylStreep Wed 21-Aug-13 09:05:09

I am surprised it didn't need signing for - my DH got a new passport last month, and not only did I need to sign for it I had to show ID for both me and for DH.

If you do send it on 2nd class, make sure you get a receipt for posting from the Post Office. Why did he get it sent to your house anyway?

Jux Wed 21-Aug-13 14:57:25

Yes, I'd do what Beryl said. Get a receipt for it so you can prove you sent it.

My gut feeling re the passport, what with it being an important legal document and all, is to hand it into the local police station and get him to collect it from there. No way anyone can accuse you of not oassing it on then!

Dearjackie Wed 21-Aug-13 19:10:59

The postman just posted it through the door. Not sure why my address was on it, probably because he put my house as the address he lives at, he is in temporary accomodation and we were planning to live together here in the near future.

If I take it to the post office and get a receipt that should be ok shouldn't it?

Am missing him this evening damn!!

Jux Wed 21-Aug-13 23:44:34

You could ask at the PO what they recommend, but I'm pretty sure it'll be recorded delivery, which will cost. Alternatively, call 101 and ask for advice. If you tell them what it is and that you can't see him again, due to emotional abuse, they might be able to suggest the best way to get it to him.

Of course, the other is option is to simply put it back in the post with 'not this address' on it grin

Dearjackie Thu 22-Aug-13 21:51:38

Help I need some further support. Been really strong until now. He text today to ask if his mail had arrived. It hurt to look at the stark text no love no kisses just cold and not what I was used to from him. I don't know why it hurt me as I know it's over

I just feel like he's dropped me from a great height so suddenly and it appears he has already got over me and the last 4 yrs. it feels like I've just been discarded. Once quite a long time ago when I was feeling insecure I remember asking him if he still wanted to be with me and he replied " if I didn't want to be with you, you'd soon know about it. I'd drop you like a ton of bricks" I half laughed thinking he was reassuring me and lightening the mood but it seems he has done just that!!

I hate feeling this way because I know the relationship was no good so I can't understand it. I keep thinking he must have got someone else.

Sallyingforth Thu 22-Aug-13 23:24:56

Support at hand Jackie!
His action is just another part of the EA. He wants you to miss him. He wants you to feel bad without him.
Don't worry whether he has got someone else or not, except to feel sorry for her because she who will be treated the same way as you and his previous partners.
You are better off without him. And deep down you know that.

Inertia Thu 22-Aug-13 23:37:08

Oh Jackie you are doing so well, stay strong !

You don't have to reply to his text asking whether his mail has arrived - he's now relegating you to the status of a PO box, because a secretary would expect basic conversational pleasantries. I would block his messages if that's at all possible.

Re the passport - can you contact the issuing passport office and explain that you have received a passport for somebody who no longer lives there and you have no contact details , how do you go about returning it ? ( Do you know fpr sure that it is the passport btw ?)

If he does have someone else your pain is understandable. But it means that a) he is someone else's problem and b) he isn't hassling you. Be kins to yourself.

Inertia Thu 22-Aug-13 23:37:58

Kind !

Sallyingforth Thu 22-Aug-13 23:47:16

Just mark the envelope Gone Away and put it in the post box. It's not your problem any more.

BerylStreep Thu 22-Aug-13 23:49:58

I would be inclined to just text back that you will post it on to him.

No further discussion. Then stick a 2nd class stamp on it, and get a receipt from the post office.

Done and dealt with.

You are doing really well.

Dearjackie Fri 23-Aug-13 17:39:12

Well am home from work have a terrible headache today but I'm still not sleeping well. Passport has been posted so that's it then the close of 4 yrs.

I a really don't know where to start making some sort of social life for myself. I have to do it as its the only way I'm going to get over this. I think I've spent so much time with him, all my friends are married so we don't meet all that much. I live in a tiny town which has very little going on.

I'm not ready to meet another man actually the way I feel at the moment I'm scared I will always compare any man to him. I know that sounds ridiculous as really any man should compare favourably to him but I think I mean in terms of how attracted to them I am not what their character is like

How on earth do you find somebody you feel attracted to! I think I may have an issue in that I only seem to be physically attracted to men who don't treat me that well. What do I do? Any thoughts?

Jux Fri 23-Aug-13 22:05:02

I think you do the Freedom Programme.

Dearjackie Sat 24-Aug-13 07:35:21

jux thanks I have just emailed a link in my local area for information about the course

Dearjackie Thu 05-Sep-13 20:27:56

Hi all

Just an update and a bit of encouragement needed please. Well it's been almost 5 weeks now. I have had no contact with him at all. I am trying hard to make a life for myself and get used to being on my own again. Have had several evenings out with friends, joined a gym and am keeping busy.

It's just sometimes it really hurts badly out of the blue. The way he let me down massively I still can't quite get my head round it at times. I feel like I've literally been stabbed at times. Also I found myself sobbing the other night when I suddenly realised I will NEVER see him again after seeing him almost every day for 3 years. I think I just feel I've got no choice, I COULD never see him again even if he came begging because of the way he let me down. It's like a grieving process. Help, hand holding welcome

Dearjackie Thu 05-Sep-13 20:51:45

Anyone?

Jux Thu 05-Sep-13 21:09:32

Oh love, sorry I missed your post last week - we were away.

You are grieving. This is a hard time, but believe me it will get easier. Be strong, cry when you want to, and then look forward again.

You are doing the right things though, gym, seeing friends. Now's the time to look at doing new things, like evening classes or a new hobby.

As time goes by, you will be thinking of him less and less, and feeling happier more and more.

Chin up, love. thanks

marimeifod Thu 05-Sep-13 21:11:19

Hi Jackie, de-lurking to say that I have no words of wisdom but can offer a hand on a shitty evening. Sorry you are feeling this way and I can totally relate to the sudden 'guerilla' type feelings of grief that pop up at unexpected intervals. Watch something funny on TV/YouTube, don't allow yourself to be bowled over by this. It is normal and will pass in a bit. xx

cloudskitchen Thu 05-Sep-13 21:17:08

Definite hand holding from me. It is a grieving process. It takes time to get used to your new normal. Its great that you are keeping busy but there will always be quiet times when you have more time to feel your emotions. I think these times are necessary to the process, but not the easiest to deal with sad

Dearjackie Thu 05-Sep-13 21:23:03

Thing is he is in my head almost every minute of every day, even though I know there is no way back from what's happened ( not that I want that)

It's the finality of it that's really hit me I think. Because he had left a few times before either for a few hours, days or at the most a week, it's made this more shocking that its final

I'm tired of thinking of him. When we were together I believe he actually "trained" me to think of him all the time. Phoning without fail for 3 years first thing in the morning and last thing at night, as well as during the day. It was all consuming, hence the big gap now

Jux Thu 05-Sep-13 22:22:13

That sounds appalling, and yes, it is training in one form or another. My MIL used to do something similar, but her persona was that of a slightly dotty old lady who wouldn't say boo to a goose. The criticisms were veiled but constant, for years, until we moved. Whether she was at our house or not (and she was always dropping in, even if she'd phoned first and I'd said no) she was sitting on my shoulder saying "not like that", "oh how strange to do that", "oh" in that horribly p-a you're-wrong-but-I'm-far-too-nice-to-say-so way of hers. We moved 150 miles away, and she was still on my shoulder reminding me I was just not good enough. It took a fair while to get her gone from my head; I'd had over 8 years of her up to 5 times a week though.

The effect fades, it really does. I am a huge advocate of studying something when in need of keeping your mind off stuff. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but learning something new - not necessarily academic - is brilliant for getting over emotional upheaval, and also helps you meet new people, some of whom may even become good friends.

BerylStreep Fri 06-Sep-13 09:20:25

And Jackie, when you think about it, he has probably subtly removed you from a lot of your friends and family in that period.

You are doing really well - baby steps. Him leaving was the start of the process, not the end. When you look back at your previous posts and threads, he really was horribly abusive to you, however even with that, I agree that there is a grieving process for what you had hoped to be, and dealing with what seems an empty void can seem daunting.

I do also feel that it must seem as if all control was taken away from you, because in the end it was him who left after the big row, rather than you telling him to leave. But you have to realise he deliberately engineered that situation so that he could flounce and try to score the point 'I dumped you, not the other way round'.

This is the perfect time to start an evening class. Curtains and soft furnishings are my thing, but there is so much you could do.

Dearjackie Fri 06-Sep-13 22:03:06

jax and beryl I think the worst thing is I have lost confidence in myself as a person that other men will like / love

He told me he loved me often and that he'd never leave me and wanted to marry me and yet he DID leave. I will never believe those words out of someone's mouth again, because I never believed he would go but he did

He also said he put up with my illness and generally made me feel it would be difficult for me to get anyone else to stay with me. It's got into my head and I wonder if I am very difficult to be with. Basically he's made me doubt myself

Does this ever go away or will it colour all future relationships?

BerylStreep Fri 06-Sep-13 22:24:13

I think you need to spend some time on your own, building up your confidence, and being happy in your own skin, before you even contemplate being with anyone again.

Without knowing the ins and outs of your previous relationship, it sounds like he did things that were designed to make you feel insecure - having the EXW always around in the wings, for example. You reacted to that, so he gets to say you are jealous and insecure, and therefore difficult to be with. But a normal relationship wouldn't have a guy parading his ex like that (or allowing his sister to do the same). Do you see what I mean? He was setting you up to be insecure, because that's where he wanted you.

I've had a relationship like this in the past - the boyfriend playing me off against his ex(es), and me like a mug, falling for it hook, line & sinker, wanting to prove that I was more desirable. Not just trying to prove it to him, but also to his family. I remember well the arguments that were so twisted, I would never be able to win - I remember just weeping and weeping, because it seemed like utter madness - I just could not get him to see sense or my point of view.

Now, years later, I realise that it was just never going to work. We were two completely different sorts of people (me sane, him a complete emotional fuck up), and although I haven't thought of him in years, I am in no doubt that he is still a complete fuck up. Meanwhile, I am happily married with 2 wonderful DC (well, apart from the usual moans, but I have a normally wonderful man).

It could well take some time for you to find yourself. I ended up travelling round the world, several years later, before I really felt truly comfortable with myself. But you sound like a good person, who just needs time and space to get over this. If you think how long you were together, of course it is going to take time. Be kind to yourself.

Did you get anywhere with booking the Freedom course?

Dearjackie Fri 06-Sep-13 22:46:39

I think there may be some truth in him wanting me to feel insecure so he could manipulate me more easily especially where sex was concerned

I've no intention of finding another man yet. I have actually in a funny way enjoyed these last few weeks of freedom where he's not taking up my time and have been seeing friends more.

I did email somebody locally regarding the freedom program but haven't heard anything back. Must try again I think

I have been reading my thread back from the beginning and some of my older ones. I have already come a long way I believe. I remember the way I felt when writing them well but in a way it feels like a different person. Plus he sounds shockingly horrible

YoniBottsBumgina Fri 06-Sep-13 22:57:27

It doesn't ever go away completely I don't think, in that you never really forget what it felt like to be in that kind of relationship and you will have certain trigger points where the fear and the reminder of the feeling will come back. But it does, absolutely, definitely, fade to a dull, most of the time forgotten about ache and when it does come up you will one day be able to say, nope, I know that is not right and be able to put it to one side and consciously carry on without regarding it.

I haven't posted on your thread before but I remembered your OP, I think I read it at the time but had to much going on for myself to be able to post. I just wanted to say that it does absolutely come down to a manageable level, and to just take things one day at a time and be kind. Be kind to yourself. It's such a strange time and a hard one, and a surprising mixture of so calm it's a blessed relief, and emotionally intense and all over the place. But at least the emotions are good and clean and healthy, just go with it. You will be fine, I promise you.

Dearjackie Fri 06-Sep-13 23:09:22

Thank you yoni I hope you are ok now and sending you strength

TheTruffleHunter Fri 06-Sep-13 23:09:44

Jackie he is being a total shit and you nailed it in your first post about a 'totally dysfunctional relationship'. And no, we don't usually get into an abusive relationship because of low self esteem, that tends to start trickling in as they push our boundaries of what's normal/acceptable.

Totally agree with the pp who said he's given you a get-out on a plate. Do grab it with both hands!

TheTruffleHunter Fri 06-Sep-13 23:11:04

Bums, will now RTFT blush

Dearjackie Fri 06-Sep-13 23:16:24

truffle I certainly am grabbing it with both hands. There is no way I would go back now even if I had the option. It was all wrong, I can see that. Doesn't mean I don't have conflicting feelings about him though. I think when you believe you've been in love with someone for four years, it takes your brain a while to detatch and register who he really was. So I am very up and down still. Although I would say more up than down which is good

Yes you are correct as regards the self esteem. I believe I had a lot of self esteem when I met him but it has deminished because of him and the things I had drummed into my brain over the years

YoniBottsBumgina Fri 06-Sep-13 23:19:03

I am okay smile It was four years ago for me now - my more recent stress was due to moving country(!!!) with my now-DP who could not be more different. Honestly I have done things I could never have dreamed of, and you will too smile

Dearjackie Fri 06-Sep-13 23:22:40

smile glad to hear it. Hopefully I will be able to say the same in the not too distant future

Jux Sat 07-Sep-13 11:04:44

You will, my lovely, you will thanks

Dearjackie Sat 07-Sep-13 11:55:58

smile

BerylStreep Sun 08-Sep-13 22:25:15

Hey Jackie, here's to looking forward to a new week!

Dearjackie Sun 08-Sep-13 22:31:00

Hello Beryl yes absolutely. A new week and a new mantra for me.
I read it the other day " learning to live, is learning to let go"

Scarletohello Sun 08-Sep-13 22:40:21

Sorry have only read the first page. He sounds unreasonable, a bully, insensitive and mean spirited. You deserve better...

Dearjackie Mon 09-Sep-13 19:20:39

Ok I'm getting really wobbly this evening. I'm having thoughts that maybe I've lost one of the best things that ever happened to me. Even as write that it sounds ridiculous given what I've written about him. With the distance that a bit of time apart gives I'm tending to remember the good things. I know I used to be generally distrustful and a bit demanding when it came to stbxw and it drove him nuts, and he said more than one I would drive him away and I'd lose the best thing that ever happened to me. Then again what about all the totally shit things he did to me sad

Jux Mon 09-Sep-13 19:51:47

He called himself the best thing that ever happened to you?

Well, there you are. Such arrogance. Quite in character. Re-read your threads, phone friends, have a luxurious bath, play some good music, eat something nice. Do your nails. Anything that occupies you.

You know he's a shit faced bastard. You know he is crap. You know he was no good for you.

Keep your chin up, lovey. You can do this.

Dearjackie Mon 09-Sep-13 20:48:53

jux it's laughable when I think about it isn't it. It's just sometimes the words they say to you get burned onto your brain. This too will pass

Jux Mon 09-Sep-13 22:14:03

Oh yes! Sometimes the MN mantras are the best thing.

Here, have cake and brew and try to sleep. Have sweet dreams.

Dearjackie Mon 09-Sep-13 22:15:46

Very nice jux love cake grin night night

Inertia Mon 09-Sep-13 22:38:08

Jackie he had to tell you that he was the best thing that ever happened to you- because he had to convince you to put up with all the shit he dished out the rest of the time.

If he genuinely was a great catch he wouldn't have to persuade you- you'd know . His actions would have showed you.

Try and stay busy- do you have any more house related projects you could embark on? Voluntary work? For tonight, can you look on e.g Pinterest for decorating ideas? Anything you could do to help your daughter?

Inertia Mon 09-Sep-13 22:39:25

Ooh cake- how about if you take up baking? That's hours of keeping busy time smile

Night night Jackie.

Dearjackie Mon 09-Sep-13 22:42:15

Hi inertia yes I am keeping busy most of the time. I work 4 days a week and get quite tired and am seeing friends much more

It's just he made me feel I'm such a drag at times. You are right his actions definately didn't show me he was a great catch

Dearjackie Mon 09-Sep-13 22:42:42

Baking I might just do that