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Sex ed - can someone educate me please regarding herpes?

(63 Posts)
educatemeplease Mon 29-Jul-13 17:06:08

I have to admit I am appalled by some of the things I don't know regarding sex and STIs etc. I had always thought that condoms protected you from everything (provided they didn't break obviously) but have only found out in the last few years that this isn't the case at all and that you can get herpes even using a condom that doesn't split. I am 31 ffs, how did I not know this?

I have also just realised that the tests you get for STIs on the NHS don't actually test for herpes. I was under the impression that this was because it couldn't be tested for but have since found out that this is not the case at all. Can anyone tell me why this test is not done as a matter of course? I'd have thought it was one of the most important ones?

Also, can anyone tell me the likelihood of getting herpes from sex if using condoms? Has anyone actually "caught" it even though they used condoms? I don't have any symptoms or anything but have just met a new partner and want to protect myself (he has just come back from travelling and by the sounds of things had unprotected sex with 2 or 3 girls while away).

maddy68 Mon 29-Jul-13 17:10:11

It's because the tests for herpes test for a viral infection. Who hasn't had a viral infection? Also if you have ever had a cold sore it will show positive. Many people if tested would have a positive result without having genital herpes

DragonsAreReal Mon 29-Jul-13 17:10:13

Most people have herpes 1 in 3 I think the statistic is, and most never realise they have it.

It is just the same as a cold sore but down there. I think you can get tested in america but here they only diagnose when they can see it.

I think (this is vaguely from leaflets and sex ed) you can only catch it when the other person has a flare up or about to have a flare up.

NowIncognito Mon 29-Jul-13 17:20:36

Hi educate
Yes it's possible for herpes (HSV) to be transmitted even when using an intact condom. As far as I recall, condoms reduce the risk of HSV transmission by about 40%. This is because the virus can be shed from all mucous membranes in the genital area, many of which are not completely covered by a condom. It can also be transmitted via oral sex, even if your partner has a coldsore rather than genital herpes (the herpes simplex virus causes coldsores as well as genital herpes, and sometimes different subtypes of the virus infect different areas ie. it's possible to have both HSV-1 which typically - not always - affects the mouth and HSV-2 which usually infects the genital region).
NHS tests for sexually transmitted infections only include an HSV test if there are symptoms or signs of HSV at the time of examination, when a swab is taken from a blister or sore. If there are no symptoms, it is difficult to test (blood tests can be used, but they are not widely available on the NHS - usually all they tell you is whether you have been in contact with HSV 1 or 2 at some time in the past, which doesn't tell you whether you could be at risk of developing symptoms). It's possible to carry HSV for years and not develop any symptoms, but you could pass it on to any sexual partners.
Hope that helps answer some of your questions. As for the likelihood of catching it, very difficult to say for sure if your current partner doesn't have any symptoms. Have you asked him whether he has a history of HSV in the past?

Auntfini Mon 29-Jul-13 17:25:11

You can't protect yourself. Seriously, this just is not worth worrying about! I got it and we used condoms every time. (He didn't know he carried it, never showed symptoms). Really is not a big deal.

Auntfini Mon 29-Jul-13 17:26:01

Or rather, he never showed symptoms that he'd noticed. Whether he had actually ever or not, he wouldn't know

Dahlen Mon 29-Jul-13 17:54:05

I don't want to miss the point here, but I wouldn't be having sex with a man who has had unprotected sex with two complete strangers full stop, regardless of whether or not he's got herpes. Such a cavalier attitude towards sexual health and personal responsibility does not bode well.

educatemeplease Mon 29-Jul-13 18:00:43

God, honestly, it freaks me out it's so easy to get. Auntfini - sounds like your DP/DH is person you got it from which surely makes it not such a big deal for you because you're still together? I have enough trouble trying to find guys I actually want to go out with (new guy is a good bit younger than me and I suspect not looking for anything serious). I just feel that I might only get 1 chance at finding someone that's right for me and if he backs out because I have to tell him I have herpes I'd just feel like my only chance had gone.

educatemeplease Mon 29-Jul-13 18:04:03

NowIncognito - thanks for your very informative post. I haven't asked him anything yet. But I will be having a conversation with him before we get physical.

Dahlen - you might be right about that one. He's lovely though and seems kind and decent in every other way. And I don't know the full story about what he got up to travelling yet. I suspect this will be something casual. I only fall in love about once a decade so having boyfriends always feels a bit dishonest. I rarely feel anything for them.

SlumberingDormouse Mon 29-Jul-13 19:24:42

NowIncognito is right - they can only test for genital herpes by swabbing fluid from an active sore/blister. Experienced STD nurses and doctors are good at diagnosing it visually too.

If they find it in a swab, it may be either HSV1 (which usually affects the mouth but can affect the genitals), or HSV2 (which usually affects the genitals but can affect the mouth!). I believe that there's also a blood test that they can do, but it will only show results a few months after infection (like the HIV test). It also won't tell you whether you have the infection in your mouth, your genitals or both. It may also show up as positive even if you've never had any symptoms and never will! I believe that's the reason why the test is not offered as part of a routine STD screen.

Overall, this isn't something that you should worry too much about. My doctor told me that she considers it to be a cold sore, just in a different place, and that it really isn't a big deal. You may well be immune to it. If your DP does have one or both forms of HSV, you have a small risk of catching it even if you use condoms and avoid sex when he has an outbreak. However, despite there being no cure, it can be managed. There are antivirals available (both oral and topical) which help a lot with either suppressing outbreaks - making them less likely - or treating one that has already started. Oh, and in most people the symptoms become much less severe, much less frequent, and much less contagious over time.

If your DP has had symptoms of genital herpes in the past then I suppose theoretically he could get a blood test. It could easily however give you a positive result when you have no risk of catching it. If he's never had any symptoms, then he might still have it, but using condoms is a good idea anyway. So you'll see that it's a bit complicated, but I hope that helps a bit!

SlumberingDormouse Mon 29-Jul-13 19:27:09

(I'm not a doctor btw but do know quite a bit about this as DP and I both have herpes. If anyone knows more, please correct me if I'm wrong about any of the above.)

lemonstartree Mon 29-Jul-13 19:29:38

It is unusual to 'have' genital herpes ( and thus shed viral particles) without being aware of it, but it can happen. Genital herpes can result form oral sex with a person who has cold sores - and since almost everyone has been infected with HSV1, that's um almost everyone. Again it is unlikely you would catch genital herpes from oral sex with someone who does NOT currently have cold sores - but again not impossible and the viral shed starts before the symptoms of the cold sore.
Genital herpes caused by HSV1 is usually less severe than that caused by HSV2. The two kinds can only be reliably differentiated by a swab of the lesions.

All this is one reason why sexual contact using condoms is called 'safER sex' and not safe sex

ToTheTeeth Mon 29-Jul-13 19:57:48

I'm really confused by these "herpes isn't a big deal" posts. If that's the case why are there specific OD sites for people with herpes, and why do carriers make a big deal about telling prospective partners that they have the virus?

I recently slept with someone with a cold sore and got absolutely paranoid. Oral sex was completely off the menu. Although I didn't catch the cold sore, so does that mean I'm immune, or is the virus just lurking?

SlumberingDormouse Mon 29-Jul-13 20:24:54

I think that some of the 'herpes isn't a big deal' posts (including mine) come from people who actually have it. I was devastated when I found out, but the doctor was very reassuring and said that it really wasn't a big deal. I've since come to agree with her!

As for 'positive' OD sites, not everyone shares this view (and that's fine) - so it can be easier to date people whom we know are positive. That way, it's not a big deal and we don't have to worry about passing it on.

If you didn't catch the cold sore, you may be immune, you may already have the virus (it's often caught in early childhood and may never show symptoms), or you may have just not caught it! Viruses don't transmit every time and they vary in how easily they are transmitted. Herpes is relatively easy but HIV is actually surprisingly hard to catch, especially from vaginal sex.

I hope that helps.

Auntfini Mon 29-Jul-13 21:00:23

Well I've had it, and it isn't. It doesn't affect my life at all anymore. People with cold sores don't have to walk round in utter shame so why should I care just because it's down there. If I have to have hsv1, I'd prefer to have it where no one can see.

Use condoms. But there are worse things you can get than herpes.

see if you can get the blood test for HSV IgG and IgM. They will let you know if you have been exposed and if the exposure is recent ( with in 2 months) or older. Its done routinely here as part of an STI panel. You can get tested for types 1 and 2 separately

It's not a big deal. Type two herpes is very painful and definitely to be avoided if possible but type one, which is usually caught on the face, is the most insignificant, piddling little sti and is really not worth anxsting over. The good thing is also that if you have type one genitally you can't catch type two at the same site so I'm actually quite pleased I have type one smile
I would never let it put me off dating or having sex, just as someone who gets cold sores wouldn't give it a second thought either.

Yogii Tue 30-Jul-13 09:29:15

The only practical measure you can take is to not have sex with somebody when you observe visible sores in the genital area. That happens to be when you would be most at risk from catching it. And this applies whether using a condom or not.

If he's been randomly sticking his cock into women he doesn't know very well, get him tested for all the usual things a GUM clinic checks for and ask to see the results.

If you do those two things, you're taking all reasonable measures to protect yourself.

whatshallwedo Tue 30-Jul-13 09:50:04

Herpes is a big deal if you have an active outbreak on your genitals and you are in labour. If passed to your newborn baby it can be fatal to them.

Obviously not sonething many people would be thinking about right now but you might do in the future.

NightScentedStock Tue 30-Jul-13 11:56:27

I was told by my gynae dr and midwives whatshallwedo that it is only a potential problem for your baby if your first attack of genital herpes appears/is present at the same time as you give birth.

That's what I was told too.
I also got aciclovir to take in the last couple of weeks just in case.

bestsonever Tue 30-Jul-13 12:53:50

Perhaps not the best idea to focus on herpes too intensely at expense of other things. At least with herpes when active the presence of sores can give an indication to avoid sex - much like not kissing someone with active cold sores. Genital lice and scabies would also be harder to spot on someone else.
HPV virus causing cervical cancer is invisible and other more common infections such as chlamidia may not produce symptoms in men or women until PID occurs affecting fertility (obviously, condom use helps avoid this). Gonhorrea can also live in the throat so is a consideration if oral sex occurs without condoms or dental damns.

bestsonever Tue 30-Jul-13 12:59:51

I once had a relationship with a traveler-type, however was reassured by his fastidious use of condoms and insistence on STI testing for both of us showing a mature and healthier attitude to it all. I would, however, avoid anyone who appeared to have condom aversion - as some still do surprisingly - and who seemed to know nothing of the risks and take responsibility for themselves.

veryconfusedandabitangrytoo Tue 30-Jul-13 13:09:48

I had a Herpes scare last year and learned pretty much everything there is to know about Herpes! SlumberingDormouse sums it up very nicely.

I think the main thing I learned from the scare is that it is not the terrifying disease that people think it is. The reason that there is OD specifically for people with Herpes is because of the stigma. As others have said, there is no shame in having a colesaw on your face, why is there shame about having the same on your genitals?

Oh and for the record, something like 80% of us already have the HSV1 or the HSV2 virus, you just may not know it.

This is a good site:

CockyFox Tue 30-Jul-13 13:31:10

Does anyone really use condoms for oral sex? I have to be honest and say I never have, I have only ever done it to DH though so maybe if I had had more partners I would feel different.

veryconfusedandabitangrytoo Tue 30-Jul-13 14:00:36

I honestly think oral sex would be pointless with a condom.

My opinion, but I would rather take the risk or not bother.

PostBellumBugsy Tue 30-Jul-13 14:18:10

I worked myself up into a lather about this a few years back after discovering a partner had Herpes. I spent ages researching it & would agree that everything SlumberingDormouse has said sums it up.

It is basically a cold sore - could either be the same virus HSV1 or a very slightly different one HSV2. Vast numbers of us carry the virus without ever having an actual outbreak.

Condom won't protect you.

educatemeplease Tue 30-Jul-13 16:09:23

Thanks for all your replies. Is it the case though that if you do get herpes you have to tell all of your partners before you have sex with them? I reckon this might put a fair number off?

PostBellumBugsy Tue 30-Jul-13 16:13:48

LOL educateme, no one is going to send you to prison if you don't tell them.

However, it is surely only common courtesy. That is one of the reasons, I broke up with my ex-P because he hadn't had the decency to tell me he had Herpes, until I noticed the sore on his dick!!!!! I was livid. Not because he had it, but because he didn't have the good manners to mention it. It would not have put me off him anymore than someone with a cold sore but I thought it was beyond rude and inconsiderate to let me go down on him and notice the sore myself.

Auntfini Tue 30-Jul-13 17:39:07

I never get outbreaks anymore and until the topic is mentioned I honestly don't remember having it. So if I were single and got with someone knew I think I'd forget to tell them.
It annoys me though because loads of people could carry it and not know, or for example people who've had a cold sore once in their lives don't have to have a big talk with a prospective partner before they have sex, but I would be expected to tell people (and I would!) which could make them decide not to be in a relationship with me.

I haven't told one night stands that I have it, because it's type one and I wouldn't tell them if I got cold sores, nobody would. If I started a new relationship I would but I would very much downplay it because someone who freaks out about the word herpes is very likely to have had cold sores at some point, or be an asymptomatic carrier.

ToTheTeeth Tue 30-Jul-13 19:23:39

But how would you know at the beginning Ehric if it was a ONS or new relationship? I think that's the problem. At some point you'll want to tell, but by that point they might be furious that you've had sex several times without them knowing.

Never used a condom for oral sex either. Although I often don't do it to climax (theirs). Does that make any difference?

Missbopeep Tue 30-Jul-13 19:28:43

Dhalan using a condom ( a man) will not protect a man against herpes if the woman has it. So your 'unprotected' comments are incorrect.
The virus can be spread by skin to skin contact during the active phase when there may be no outward signs of the disease. So the virus could be on his scrotum, inner thighs, and a woman's vulva, and shed as skin scales during contact.

That is why condoms do not protect against herpes.

The sad facts are that the more partners you have, the more at risk you are because someone somewhere in yours or their sexual history may have had it and passed it on.

Missbopeep Tue 30-Jul-13 19:29:54

educate it would be polite to tell because at least it gives them the choice of saying no.

Auntfini Tue 30-Jul-13 19:32:50

'Never used a condom for oral sex either. Although I often don't do it to climax (theirs). Does that make any difference?'

No! It's caused by skin to skin contact. You can get it whether you use condoms or not

Dahlen Tue 30-Jul-13 19:51:50

Was that directed at me Missbopeep? I can't see the relevance. confused

My comment was that anyone who has unprotected sex with complete strangers is foolish. He or she may have contracted any number of STIs that they could pass on to subsequent partners, may have got someone pregnant or become pregnant themselves. Personally I wouldn't want to sleep with someone who behaved like that. Whether or not he or she had herpes would be a complete irrelevance to the shocking lack of responsibility towards health and responsibility.

ToTheTeeth Tue 30-Jul-13 19:57:47

I got accidentally pregnant once Dahlen. Does that mean I'm spoiled goods and people should stay away?

Although it wasn't via a complete stranger. Is unprotected sex OK if you know how the other person takes their tea?

Dahlen Tue 30-Jul-13 20:06:11

Don't put words into my mouth. hmm I'm not going to say that sleeping with people without using protection is ok. People can do what they like, but it's risky behaviour. That's just fact.

We're all human. We all make mistakes. Some of us can get carried away in the heat of the moment, either for the first time or with an established lover. That doesn't make anyone 'spoiled goods' hmm but it does mean a risk has been taken. To deny that is silly.

Once is a mistake. Twice is carelessness. This man has done it twice that he's admitted to. I just hope for the OP's sake that in this case 'abroad' doesn't mean Thailand or something.

ToTheTeeth Tue 30-Jul-13 20:12:31

There's a massive gap between saying it's not "OK" to have unprotected sex, and saying that someone who has done so has behaved in a way that means other people should stay away from them, which is exactly what you're saying.

Missbopeep Tue 30-Jul-13 20:15:25

Was that directed at me Missbopeep? I can't see the relevance. confused

My comment was that anyone who has unprotected sex with complete strangers is foolish. He or she may have contracted any number of STIs that they could pass on to subsequent partners, may have got someone pregnant or become pregnant themselves. Personally I wouldn't want to sleep with someone who behaved like that. Whether or not he or she had herpes would be a complete irrelevance to the shocking lack of responsibility towards health and responsibility.

yep, it was .

For the same reasons as I am going to repeat here.

you wouldn't know presumably if a man had had unprotected sex with one or 1001 partners unless he told you.

He might have had unprotected sex but then been checked out and given the all clear ( except for herpes.)

Dahlen Tue 30-Jul-13 20:18:07

I haven't said any such thing! In all three of my posts I have said that "I, personally" would not sleep with someone for the reasons I have given. I think a lot of people feel the same, and frankly I would expect anyone who cared about their own sexual health to be protective of it.

My problem with the OP's potential partner is not that he has herpes but that he is routinely having unprotected sex.

Missbopeep Tue 30-Jul-13 20:20:43


I don't think you can read what you have written.

My comment was that anyone who has unprotected sex with complete strangers is foolish. He or she may have contracted any number of STIs that they could pass on to subsequent partners, may have got someone pregnant or become pregnant themselves. *Personally I wouldn't want to sleep with someone who behaved like that.*

You said you wouldn't have sex with someone who'd had unprotected sex. I said how would you know they had.

Dahlen Tue 30-Jul-13 20:21:04

Missbopeep - I think you're missing the point or maybe I just didn't make myself clear.

You're right that I wouldn't know how many people a man would have slept with. Which is why - regardless of what he tells me - I would not sleep with anyone without using protection.

We have threads on here where men get short shrift for using the excuse "but she told me she was on the pill" when trying to abdicate responsibility for an unwanted pregnancy. The same applies to sexual health. You don't believe the other person until you are in a position to verify or where you know the person well enough to have established that degree of trust.

Missbopeep Tue 30-Jul-13 20:23:35

You were very unclear. You said you wouldnt have sex with someone who slept around not using protection ( which means before he met you).

You didn't say what in fact you mean- which is you would insist they used protection with you.

Big difference.

But you could still get herpes whether they used a condom with you or not. That's the bit you are not getting it seems.

Dahlen Tue 30-Jul-13 20:36:39

Well I'm sorry if it came across as unclear, but I stand by what I said. I will attempt to clarify it here.

Having regular unprotected sex is foolish, risky behaviour. I defy anyone to argue with that.

When you take a new sexual partner, you don't know how many people they've slept with, granted. Personally I would suggest that anyone who is that irresponsible about their health will probably display similar irresponsibility in other areas of their life, but in the case of a ONS or something admittedly you'd be unlikely to notice that. In those cases, where any knowledge about the new potential partner is absent, surely you'd be using a condom anyway.

However, we are not talking about a ONS in this instance, we are talking about a man who has just freely admitted to travelling abroad and having unprotected sex on more than one occasion. The OP knows that her potential lover has behaved in a risky fashion and that this has implications for her own wellbeing.

I would not expect anyone who wanted to protect their health to be happy about sleeping with someone who regularly had unprotected sex with others in the past, unless they could make a very, very plausible case about how they were now grown up and responsible. The OP's potential lover may have done just that, but she hasn't mentioned it.

Herpes, or the absence of it is irrelevant. I am well aware that you can get herpes (and other STIs) despite using a condom. What about all the many more STIs that are preventable - particularly the really nasty ones like HIV and Hepatitis?

Missbopeep Tue 30-Jul-13 20:41:53

I agree with all of that Dahlen.

educatemeplease Tue 30-Jul-13 21:52:11

Me and new guy had a bit of a chat and actually I don't think he did have unprotected sex while abroad. Something he said made me think he did but he didn't actually say he had. Because I thought he did though I asked him if he'd been tested since he got back and suggested we delay sex until then. He said he hadn't been tested as he hadn't had unprotected sex with anyone since a girlfriend a long time ago but thought it was a sensible idea and said he would go any way.

But none of that will stop herpes - still worries me a bit to be honest although I am a bit less worried about some things thanks to some of your posts. He is just so lovely though (looks and personality) and I am getting nowhere on with my quest to find an actual boyfriend or husband! I will probably just go for it but we will very definitely be using condoms even if they only offer partial protection.

ToTheTeeth Tue 30-Jul-13 21:54:21

Has he got any Herpe symptoms? I'm confused why you seem so convinced he's got it?

educatemeplease Tue 30-Jul-13 22:16:08

ToTheTeeth - I'm not convinced he has, I've no reason to think he does, I'm just a stresser.

Bogeyface Tue 30-Jul-13 22:21:02

Anyone who says that Herpes is not that big a deal clearly doesnt know what could happen to a baby born to a mother who has an active infection.

Babies can and do die when they are born via the birth canal to mothers with an active infection.

It IS a big deal and only a fool would say otherwise.

Bogeyface Tue 30-Jul-13 22:22:41

OP never sleep with him "anyway" because you are frightened you might lose him if you dont!! Remember what they used to say when you were 16? If he loves you, he will wait. If he wont wait then he doesnt love you.

Auntfini Tue 30-Jul-13 23:12:03

Well bogey I'm not a fool thank you! That has really wound me up now.

Of course an active herpes infection is dangerous if you're giving birth, like an active cold sore is dangerous to newborns. But other than that very specific scenario, if is not a big deal.

Some of us can't help that we've got it you know! Perhaps we should all sit at home feeling ashamed and worrying about our lives. Oh god, I've got what most other peoe have on their faces on my fanny. I should worry about it constantly, just like people with cold sores do. Oh... Wait...

educatemeplease Tue 30-Jul-13 23:25:09

Bogeyface - he doesn't love me and I don't love him. The last time I was in love was over a decade ago. I have needs like everyone else though!

And surely the birth scenario is only an issue for those wishing to have children or more children some day. Yes it's serious but it can be got around with a c-section in the unlikely event that a woman has a flare up immediately prior to giving birth. Noone wants herpes but as Auntfini says plenty of people do get it without doing anything wrong - it does seem very sad that there is still such stigma attached to it.

NightScentedStock Wed 31-Jul-13 09:32:27

Vaginal delivery is very low risk if you have a recurrent hsv flare up, and so it is generally the delivery aimed for in this situation in the uk. Caesarian section is not routinely recommended. It is only if you have caught the virus in the last 6 weeks of pregnancy that c section is recommended, and this may not provide complete protection for the newborn.

I have had 2 vaginal deliveries with hsv, and I do not consider myself a fool for thinking it pretty safe to do so. As i said upthread, I asked the advice of my gynae dr, who also happens to be an expert in STDs, and he reassured me that it was safe to deliver vaginally. I think it is a shame that this isn't more widely known. I don't believe for a second that I was misinformed by the several health professionals I spoke to about it. I am generally a very risk averse person, but took the HCPs at their word. I was also an HCP until I had DCs.

veryconfusedandabitangrytoo Wed 31-Jul-13 09:37:13

Bogeyface lots of things are dangerous to newborns - a bout of thrush can be, or in fact any infection in that area. That doesnt mean that Herpes is some major terrible thing!

And saying such is frankly offensive to anyone who has this minor skin infection.

How would you feel if your child had eczema (which is generally worse than the Herpes virus) and everyone talked about him/her like he was some sort of leapor?

veryconfusedandabitangrytoo Wed 31-Jul-13 09:39:35

Auntfini :-(

Not everybody feels like that. After my Herpes scare I learned so much that I now go out of my way to butt in if anyone is talking about Herpes and put them right! I am sure everyone thinks I have it because of that! and you know what? I dont care :-) its a minor skin disease. Its nothing. It doesnt matter.

Bogeyface don't talk bollocks. I have hsv1 and I have given birth. The midwives certainly didn't think that it was a big deal. The only time herpes infection is of significant risk to pregnancy is if you contract it during pregnancy, or if you have an active sore while giving birth. The risks are very small and also easily managed. So who are you to call anyone a fool?

Auntfini Wed 31-Jul-13 10:10:13

Veryconfused, thanks. It's always the way on threads about this that those of us who have it know how little of an issue it really is, but people who don't act like it's the most terrible thing ever.

Bogeyface Wed 31-Jul-13 11:28:22

I didnt say that anyone who has it should be treated like a leper but it CAN be very dangerous in that specific situation. To say "it is no big deal" is ridiculous and yes, foolish.

whatshallwedo Wed 31-Jul-13 12:28:55

Bogeyface I totally agree with you. I suffer from coldsores and am so so careful around my baby if I have one as I understand the risk to her.

I go out of my way to tie my hair up (short style but not short enough), wash my hands constantly and never touch my mouth as I would hate to be responsible for passing it onto someone else.

whatshallwedo Wed 31-Jul-13 12:31:21

Also I get them on my eyelid so if dd caught them the chances are she would touch her eyes as she is too young to understand and she could lose her vision. So to some people they might not be a big deal but to others who know the different ways in which they can affect you they are a massive deal to be avoided at all costs.

Auntfini Wed 31-Jul-13 12:56:10

But I wasn't talking about HSV on the eyes or HSV around a young babay. I was just saying that herpes does not affect my life at all, and that you should be more concerned about using a condom so you don't get other STIs

Auntfini Wed 31-Jul-13 12:56:39

babay? baby

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