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Am I hyper-sensitive and mad or is he not nice?

(127 Posts)
Vigilant Sun 28-Jul-13 21:23:15

How do I know if I should stay with my hubby?
Sorry don't want to write DH as he's not a dearest.

When we started dating in 2006, we broke up a couple of times due to his anger over trivial things (I can't even remember what they were but usually my tone of voice). I remember spending one evening with him shouting and ranting and me crying hysterically and asking him to stop (we are talking 4 hours of shouting and I started to have palpitations and felt very sick). I decided that I would never be treated like that again and we broke up.

Next day he came round and said he was really a great guy, in fact he said, "here's some numbers - call any of my friends and they will all tell you the same". I didn't call any. I got back with him. It happened a couple of more times that year. I strive to avoid conflict in my life and if I can't (with other people) I am able to say " this is making me feel etc" and we can get a conversation going about said topic. With hubby I can't do this and never have been able to.

Anyway, fast forward a year or so and I'm pregnant (found out after we were having a lot of arguments). We moved in together at 5 months and got married at 9 months pregnant. I did so to do the best for my wee one. (and my parents wanted it as well).

I never 'fell in love' and never had a couple time - just the 2 of us - it was straight into motherhood. Our little one is now 5.

a few times a year, I upset him and he 'blows'. I think he 'goes nuts', shouting until he loses his voice, refusing to allow me to have a break from the argument (which all take the form of him antagonising me, me defending myself by saying, for example, I didn't use a particular tone of voice or I didn't mean to lift the plastic cover off the remote control when I was cleaning it and him just shouting I'm a liar, I did do it on purpose and now it will never be ok with bubbles underneath, or I have said something in a tone and apparently I do this all the time and speak to him like he's sh** on my shoe). The stony silences after these usually last one week.

Twice he has grabbed me a shaken me with rage (but he has NEVER hit me ever). If he did it would be so much clearer. On these occasions, he has then started sobbing and crying and saying he wouldn't cope if I left him. Once, we argued when we were out. He went nuts and grabbed the steering wheel and pulled it into the side of the road. That was a bit frightening. When he cries (only 3 times I think) I feel so bad for him, if only I didn't make him get this way. He says that I'm so perfect (sarcasm) and I'm always right (same again). If I try to tell him that he's crazy he tells me I'm varous things - paranoid, neurotic, manipulative and even, amazingly a psychopath.

Once, last week he held me and tried to stop leaving the bathroom - he'd come in in the middle of a rant. I'd gone in there for some peace but he came in anyway. The trigger is never obvious to me. I seem to (I guess I must) make him deeply unhappy and he is a silent chap in the respect that he doesn't say anything for ages then something happens 'that is like the straw that breaks the camel's back" and off he goes. Some of these happen when our little one is in the house (always in bed sleeping at night or morning - though this week she asked what our loud conversation was about. I told her that sometimes adults shout but that they still love each other as I don't want to show her a bad example of relationships).

But the truth is I probably am showing her one. To be fair, we get through our lives in an amicable way. I enjoy my life with my little one and my hobbies and interests. In public hubby is very popular with everyone. At home he spends his time watching TV and looking at his laptop. We don't chat much. Though he does sort of listen if I chat about light things, what little one did that day etc. He works full time, hates his work and works a long day. That doesn't help. But even when he was in a job he liked, things in our relationship were like this.

So how are they? I'm on eggshells. I am nervous of upsetting him (every day), I hate to break things in the house as he has to spend time fixing them. I hate if he finds something broken as then I get the blame. I am nervous if I hear him sigh (when in another room) as I cringe and wonder what I've done. I cringe if I hear him say "for God's sake" as I KNOW I've done something and then he comes and tells me. I can brush that of though and don't get too upset. Though, when I think about it I'm def on egg shells every day as I've said already.

Writing this makes me want to cry. My friend heard a little of this today and showed me this site. I found a link to hidden hurt and read the verbal abuse pages - I seemed to be 'ticking' the boxes as I read and thought, yes, he does those things. But when I read signs of an abuser - he didn't tick any of those boxes at all. Not jealous etc

I can't show him the page as he'd say I also do all those same things to him and we'd be no further forward.

I can't leave as I have no money of my own. I guess I must want to though as if I won lots of money my immediate answer to "what are you going to spend it on?" would be to say - a house/flat for just me and my lttle one.

Last week, in the middle of his rant, which started in response to my tone (I didn't know the answer to his question and he asked the same one 3 times) he threatened to leave and didn't know when he would be back. He went downstairs though and we didn't speak for a week. I have approached him for a cuddle and he coldly reciprocated.

I actually would like him to check into a hotel for a week or 2. I think the space would offer some clarity. I can't see me doing this with our little one as that would not be fair for them. I can't see me asking for that though - it could be more of a formal beginning of the end.

Anyone else relate to this?

Yes, he is absolutely an abuser. He is verbally and physically abusive to you. He is abusive your daughter by extension. Please don't think it's not bad enough to leave, it really is.

Vigilant Sun 28-Jul-13 21:37:39

Hi EHricLovesTeam Qhuay, are you sure?
I can imagine if he read this he'd think I was being dramatic (even though I've not exaggerated things).

In 7 years together he has only shaken me 2 times (he jumped on top of me on the bed and pinned me down then shook me and the other time, standing up) but that's it. And the steering wheel thing. But nothing else but the shouting.

lemonstartree Sun 28-Jul-13 21:38:20

This man is horrible. He has no respect, kindness or love for you. He is sapping your self confidence and self respect. Right at the beginning you say you decided 'never to be treated like this again' , but you got sucked back in and now its ALL the time.

Your 'marriage' is over.You need yo get out and stop showing your DD that this is how people who love each other behave. He does not love you, he doesn't even like you. Get a solicitors appointment, confide in your parents, phone women's aid - anything, but get OUT of there.

I am so sorry this is happening to you. It is all wrong and terribly damaging. You and DD are worth so so much more

Absolutely 100% positive, he is an abuser.

Littlefish Sun 28-Jul-13 21:40:39

You need to speak to Women's Aid. Do you have access to a joint account? Are you in receipt of child benefit?

You are being abused.

It would be clearer to you if you actually tried to leave the room when he goes into one of his rants - he would physically try to stop you.

I suspect you only define abuse as physical. It's not, he is abiding you.

Leave. And get help.

Vigilant Sun 28-Jul-13 21:43:43

He says he loves me several times every day.

It doesn't happen all the time lemonstartree - only about 2 or 3 'explosions' a year (though i am nervous each day in case he is angry just a little bit - he does seem to be angry all the time at the moment but gererally doesn't shout) He does save the anger up then out it comes - but only a couple of time a year.

My problem is, he would be heartbroken if I showed him this thread, and equally terrified if he found it. He would think I was mad and over reacting. Which I probably am.

Pagwatch Sun 28-Jul-13 21:44:10

You are not living with a partner who wants you to be happy.
You are scared of his temper, of his moods.

If your DD was describing her life by writing what you have just posted, would you say 'he sounds lovely darling. He is clearly a loving man' or would you tell her to run, run as far away from him as possible.

newlifeforme Sun 28-Jul-13 21:44:10

I shivered as I read through your post..you are in an abusive relationship, no one should live like this.
You can leave him, it may take planning but its possible.

Does it matter if he ticks all the abuser boxes? Do you want to live the rest of your life like this? And your LO too?

TondelayoSchwarzkopf Sun 28-Jul-13 21:47:17

Not only is he 'not nice' he is physically and emotionally abusive. Please leave this vile, horrible man. sad and angry on your behalf.

Let him move into a hotel, preferably a really unpleasant one and change the locks.

I really hope you are not financially dependent on him and that you can get real life support. flowers flowers

To give you some context, I have been with my DH for 14 years and he has NEVER shaken me. Once would have been once too many - I am so sad you think that is acceptable.

Please call Women's Aid. 0808 2000 247

Pagwatch Sun 28-Jul-13 21:47:28

My dh doesn't tell me he loves me much. He doesn't have to. His actions, his kindness and warmth - his care for our children show that he loves us,

Your dh forces you to explain to your child why adults shout.
And sweetheart you are teaching her that a relationship filled with fear, apprehension, tension and anger is fine.

Vigilant Sun 28-Jul-13 21:48:34

Hi LaurieFairyCake - he would prevent me from moving away or he would follow me - but as I say it's only every few months for these outbursts. I hate them though and cry and get palpitations. He DEF would fall into the camp of defining abuse as physical - I probably do as well.

Little fish - I do have access to his money but we don't get any kind of benefits as he earns a lot.

Not sure about Women's Aid - aren't they a shelter for battered women?

Lemonstartree - I could stay with my folks though dad has cancer and both parents have said they don't ever want to get involved (I tried to leave after one year of marriage and arranged to stay with them and they were agreeable) but after my mum waded into the TV remote control argument my dad apologised to hubby and told my mother that she should not have got involved. In the past they have taken his side.

PeacesOfAte Sun 28-Jul-13 21:48:48

It doesn't matter whether he agrees with you or not. He doesn't have to give his permission or agree to the end of the relationship. You can decide that you no longer want to live with him (and Christ, why would you, he's an abusive, manipulative arsehole) and either leave or get him to leave.

Would you want your daughter living like you are? No, so show yourself some love too and give yourself, and your child, a chance of a happy, peaceful life from now on.

Pozzled Sun 28-Jul-13 21:50:09

Yes, he's abusive and you need to leave him. He has 'only shaken you twice' and grabbed the steering wheel when driving. I'm sorry, but there is no 'only' in that, it is frightening, violent behavior which no one should ever have to put up with. And that's without all the shouting etc.

It must be really hard to think of ending the relationship, but you must do it- for yourself and for your child. You need to respect yourself in order for your child to learn self-respect.

Vigilant Sun 28-Jul-13 21:50:59

Pagwatch - all couples surely shout at some point and their kids hear?

colafrosties Sun 28-Jul-13 21:51:57

Being nervous every day in case he is angry is no way to live. You say he'd be heartbroken if he were to read this. But what about your feelings, aren't you heartbroken having to write it?

Snazzyenjoyingsummer Sun 28-Jul-13 21:52:27

So what will it take, a slap in the face, a black eye? Shaking is bad enough. It really is. Plus all the verbal abuse and bullying. I know a lot of people aren't comfortable with the word abuse or abuser for their partner. What he undoubtedly is is a bully. You don't have to live with a bully. Nobody does. Would you want your daughter treated like this?

'If he could read this...' his view is totally irrelevant. Of course he would say you were being dramatic. It's him doing all this.

The 'you do all this to me too' stuff is also a classic deflection. None of that matters. All that matters is that you are being treated really badly and it doesn't look set to change. This needs to end.

nkf Sun 28-Jul-13 21:53:30

He sounds horrible.

Pagwatch Sun 28-Jul-13 21:54:06

Did you just ignore everything else I said to pick out that line?

And actually no, not every couple shouts at each other.
They don't shake each other, they are not scared of each other, they don't tell each other they are mad, they are not endlessly sighing and building up resentment so they feel vindicated when they are physical.

I have been married 24 years. My husband has never laid a hand on me and I am never ever on egg shells.

Callmedreckly Sun 28-Jul-13 21:54:30

Please don't show him this thread OP.

Twinklestein Sun 28-Jul-13 21:54:41

There doesn't need to be physical violence for this to be an abusive relationship. He doesn't need to tick every box of a typical abuser to be one. What you describe is emotional abuse.

"I didn't use a particular tone of voice or I didn't mean to lift the plastic cover off the remote control when I was cleaning it and him just shouting I'm a liar, I did do it on purpose and now it will never be ok with bubbles underneath, or I have said something in a tone and apparently I do this all the time and speak to him like he's sh** on my shoe)."

It just breaks my heart that you & your daughter are living like this - on eggshells all of the time - for fear of his outbursts, under his control.

Your name implies that you must always be 'vigilant'?

This is no way to live. You don't need money to get away from him.
Please call Women's Aid as others have suggested.

Snazzyenjoyingsummer Sun 28-Jul-13 21:55:35

I don't give a toss how he would feel, or what he thinks is or isn't abuse. The point is that you are living in very unhappy conditions. He doesn't care how you feel when he does this, does he?

BillComptonstrousers Sun 28-Jul-13 21:55:59

THIS IS NOT A NORMAL RELATIONSHIP! Please please don't defend him or think its normal,it's not.

FlatsInDagenham Sun 28-Jul-13 21:56:35

I don't think I could stand to live in such a tense atmosphere. Don't think that your little one hasn't picked up on it - she will have.

He is abusive - shouting until he loses his voice, not allowing you to leave a room, pulling you up on little things such as the remote control - these are abusive behaviours (even leaving the physical incidents aside).

You don't want to be with him. You don't even claim to love him.

Do yourself and your daughter a massive favour and leave. You will both be far happier.

Pagwatch Sun 28-Jul-13 21:56:55

It's really really not normal

Vigilant Sun 28-Jul-13 21:57:38

Pozzled, I can't imagine leaving him. I don't know where I'd go. I'd hate to make a fuss. Selfishly, living with him allows me to pursue my hobbies (they need a whole room to themselves) and I can't give them up by moving to a smaller house. The idea that i'm hurting my child though makes me want to cry and run away. Please be gentle with me.

I'm not sure I'm ready to make this public though I know my friend who recommended this site will read this, and clearly know it's me and that might be hard for her and awkward.

It's very hard to think about leaving - that'sall major life changing stuff.

Right now I've made up the spare bed and I'm nervous about him noticing. I am exhausted (stress) today and desperate for some sleep. I think I need to tell him i'm in the spare room as otherwise he'll probably only put the light on, stare at me and then walk off.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf - Yes I am dependent on him for money. i have a lttle coming in from a rented property - my old house but that's it. I rang a solicitor last year (after a row about the remote control cover being removed and getting dust under it) and they told me that I don't qualify for legal aid (hubby earns a lot) and unless I kick out my tenant and move there I am considered too rich. Fat chance! Though I do have access to hubbys money I don't consider it mine. But I keep thinking that if I left, I need to leave my tenant where they are so that I have a little income as what could I do when I have a little one to look after?

EllaFitzgerald Sun 28-Jul-13 21:57:39

He's awful. Emotionally, verbally and, yes, physically abusive. If you aren't convinced you've been physically abused, ask yourself whether it would be called abuse if he lost his temper with your DD and shook her the way he shook you.

I hope you find the strength to escape.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf Sun 28-Jul-13 21:59:34

Not sure about Women's Aid - aren't they a shelter for battered women?

You ARE a battered woman IMO. Your H shakes you. He physically prevents you from leaving rooms. You walk on eggshells (your words) around him. He has screaming rows about the Remote Control FFS and your parents get involved. Your fantasy is to leave him.

BTW you do realise you can leave him regardless of whether you think he is abusive or not. You clearly want to leave him. So I wouldn't wait for 'proof' that he is abusive.

Vigilant Sun 28-Jul-13 22:05:51

newlifeforme - I burst into tears when I read what you had written. If I have that effect on you then I must be saying something here.

Snazzyenjoyingsummer - yes, if he did hit me then I would have a 'black and white' reason for saying I'm leaving and you are a bad person

FlatsInDagenham - I don't know what I feel about him. Sometimes I think I am fond of him and other times I think I hate him but mostly I'm indifferent. But I do try to be loving. I know he thinks we should have more s3x for example not that he pushes me into it. We'd just had our 5th miscarriage (this month) and haven't managed that more than once since

EllaFitzgerald - You are quite right. I would not have any dilemna there at all.

To all who have suggested it, I will call Women's Aid. I am not sure what to expect and will feel silly but I will do it as you are all objective and I appreciate that I am not.

Vigilant Sun 28-Jul-13 22:07:57

TondelayoSchwarzkopf - I feel like I need proof. I used to fantasise that he went back to his ex (I sometimes think he wishes he could though he says otherwise - they socialise 3 time a year) and then I could leave him for that. I just need a good enough reason - and you are all saying I have it already.

I need to think about this.

Pozzled Sun 28-Jul-13 22:10:20

Right now, the thought of leaving seems impossible and you are thinking of a million difficulties- getting a job, having to sort childcare, finding space for your hobby etc. It's natural to think of all these things- but you do not need to solve those problems tonight. They can wait. But there WILL be solutions, and there WILL be people to support you- here, Women's Aid, the friend who already knows some of what you have told us.

Can you do one thing tonight? Can you say to yourself - and really mean it- 'I don't want to live like this, I don't have to live like this, and one day I will not be with this man, living like this'.

Vigilant Sun 28-Jul-13 22:12:02

colafrosties - Yes I am sad writing this and a bit scared. But I don't want to hurt him. His last long term relationship ended badly - he cheated on her after he was bullied. He broke it off bec of guilt then they got back together. Unfortunately, after they were back together and thinking of getting married she found out about affair and ended it. He agreed. She said she'd always throw it in his face and he agreed he didn't want to live that way. I am always nervous about that though and it was only recently I threw away all her love letters to him (he said they weren't important and allowed our LO to cut up the pictures (they were cards) and put on gluings

Anyway after they broke up he lost a lot financially and says he can't bear to lose his home (where we both live now). I wouldn't make a claim on the house - Idon't want to upset him if he gave me enough money to get a place of my own with LO

Vigilant Sun 28-Jul-13 22:14:40

Pozzled, I am crying reading your posts. They feel like a wee hug. The best I can do is sleep in the spare room tonight and perhaps for a wee while but I am afraid of creating a scene, taking things to a new level (can't pretend things are ok in the spare room), and afrid of extending the argument. I feel I am pushing things by doing the spare room thing. Not sure why exactly as I've done this before and he has also done this (not very grown up is it) I don't want to live like this but maybe he and I can change?

All you can see right now is a brick wall between you and a better life including your LO being happy, having a decent standard of living and even keeping you hobby. Everyone here can tell you, you need to take baby steps toward that wall then take it down brick by brick. You have already taken a step, to here. Take another, tell you friend. Another, women's aid. You only get one life, it is worth doing this work.

Vigilant Sun 28-Jul-13 22:17:57

WideScreenViper I am not sure how to begin the steps to leaving but I will call womens' aid. I will google them just now and find out who they are. You are right - life is short. Thanks

Vigilant Sun 28-Jul-13 22:18:56

I need to log off. I can hear hubby upstairs now.
Thank you for all your posts. I am amazed to get any given how many people post here. Thank you all for taking the time to read my post and offer support.

With love, x

AnyFucker Sun 28-Jul-13 22:19:01

Your husband is an abuser and you are bringing your child up in an abusive atmosphere with all those attendant damaging lessons

there is nothing more to be said here

how you react after accepting that (or not) is entirely up to you

You already did. One step at a time.

Vigilant Sun 28-Jul-13 22:45:09

Just a quick thought. Should I show my hubby the hidden hurt page which shows all the behaviours - judging, blocking, etc - Is it possible he has no idea he ticks these boxes. I think he would be shocked actually. A long time ago I read something (can't remem details) and said he was verbally abusive and he was very scathing - but here is something in writing. It might help? What does anyone think?

Vivacia Sun 28-Jul-13 22:47:50

These threads make me feel so angry. I'd love to see one of these "scary" men who intimidate and abuse their partners in a room with a few of us. I'd give them bloody "tone of voice".

These threads also make me feel sad. The OP lists the most horrendous descriptions of their life but don't realise how bad it is.

Take care Vigilant.

AnyFucker Sun 28-Jul-13 22:48:06

I wouldn't bother

he won't admit he is abusive...true abusers never do

never give them any ammunition would be my advice

keep it for yourself, to help you detach fro the abuse

AnyFucker Sun 28-Jul-13 22:48:18

*from

Vivacia Sun 28-Jul-13 22:48:55

I wouldn't show him. At least sleep on it.

AnyFucker Sun 28-Jul-13 22:51:16

do you hope he will have a lightbulb moment ?

please, do not be so naive

abusers know what they are doing....they are not innocents simply waiting until it is pointed out to them

you are likely to escalate the issue

keep your own counsel and use the knowledge to get out

no other advice is appropriate

TondelayoSchwarzkopf Sun 28-Jul-13 22:55:31

Please don't show him the link. Please don't think of entering counselling with him. Please don't make it your mission to help him. He knows exactly what he is doing. I assume he doesn't do this at work where he probably has quite a senior and responsible job given you say he is a high earner? He does it to YOU.

Make it your mission to help yourself and your daughter.

flowers

TalkativeJim Sun 28-Jul-13 22:56:36

No, it won't help.

I'm sure he would act shocked, and maybe even tell himself that he is... but the truth of it is that people like this act like it because they like it, they like bullying, feeling in charge - they very, very rarely change because they have no desire to be different.

He knows full well what he's like. The behaviour he shows to you... He'd hate to be treated like that and wouldn't accept it.

He's an abuser. The best and the only thing you can do is to get out. For you and your little girl.

Callmedreckly Sun 28-Jul-13 22:57:25

Does he pin down shop assistants that use a certain tone?
Does he scream at other drivers until he loses his voice?

He knows exactly what he is and only does it behind closed doors, so that only you & your daughter hear him.

Don't 'show' him anything apart from the front door.

DTisMYdoctor Sun 28-Jul-13 23:01:38

There is nothing about your relationship that is normal OP. You don't need to live your life like this. You'll get loads of good advice on here, for you and your DD's sake please do take it. Talk to women's aid.

YoniBottsBumgina Sun 28-Jul-13 23:05:30

Don't show him. It is an incredibly dangerous thing to do, to show someone who has signs of being abusive that you think they might be.

Please bear in mind NO abuser ticks every box. They just don't. There are as many "types" of abuse as there are different personalities, and they don't handily break off into categories of abuser, that's why all of the traits are on the same list even though some are unrelated. Ticking one or two boxes is enough - that's all it takes. If he ticks more than two, that's bad, really bad.

You should also be aware that the stereotype slap on the face/single punch is unlikely. Shoving, shaking, pushing - these are all physical abuse and much more likely than a punch or a slap. I don't want to scare you, but I feel I can't not say - it's far more likely, statistically, that he would go straight from an occasional shove once.every few years to a full on beating. Meaning, one you might not wake up from, or that might leave you with lifelong health issues. And every single woman says "No way, I know him. There is absolutely no way he would go that far." Sorry. Your bloke is not that special and different.

Women's aid help all women. They would absolutely help you. You can always phone and see what they say,eeven if all you want is a listening ear or confirmation that this isn't normal. Phoning them does not commit you to running away in the middle of the night, although they would certainly help you to do that if you wanted to.

BTW, if you were in any doubt, do not show him this thread. Men like your husband don't tend to take kindly to their wives seeking advice about them behind their backs. Stay safe.

Hoolit Sun 28-Jul-13 23:07:51

Vigilant, the one place in the whole world you and your little one should feel safe is in your own home.
Your words 'walking on eggshells' is a title of a dv campaign, this tells you all you need to know.
Has he always been like this? Are you thinking time away will make him see the errors of his ways?

You don't have to do anything you don't want but please confined in a friend, they maybe able to help you out so you don't need to rely on your parents.

Noregrets78 Sun 28-Jul-13 23:08:42

vigilant I haven't read all replies, but you should read 'Why does he do that' by Lundy Bancroft (get it delivered to a friend's house if you're scared). And also talk to the wonderful women on the EA support thread. I recognise sooo much from what you've posted.

I could tell you were in an abusive relationship just by reading the title.

Don't show him the details re: what you think he's doing wrong. He won't agree, it won't help, and he'll throw it back in your face.

The reason he's not been more violent is that you've learnt how to placate him, and are 'walking on eggshells' as you say. He doesn't need to be more violent, as his other tactics are working sufficiently well to control you.

Women's Aid will take you seriously. They're not just a shelter for battered women (although what would you define as a battered woman? He's been violent with you. The fact he hasn't actually hit you is irrelevant) - they are also a wonderful source of advice.

It may take you a long time to come to your own conclusion. But you can't fix him, he won't change. His actions come from the way he thinks, deep down inside. Him being nice in between is just a cycle to suck you in and keep you on side.

The finances WILL sort themselves out. you'll be entitled to far more once your living separately, as his income will not be taken into account. Come back and talk more when you get time.

I'm not going to dwell on the impact on your DD as it's hard enough without the guilt of that. But do think about what she's seeing as a 'normal' relationship, how would you feel if she was being treated as you are now? There's your answer to whether this is a good relationship.

I'm nearly divorced now, and we've been separated about 3 months after 15 years together. I'm all over the place as I'm not sure who I am any more, but it's an amazing feeling being able to work it out in freedom.

Good luck.

ChangingWoman Sun 28-Jul-13 23:12:06

There's nothing normal about your H's behaviour. Shaking you, shouting at you until he loses his voice, psychologically bullying and manipulating you - no, none of these things happen in healthy relationships.

Your life with H sounds like a nightmare, frankly. You're definitely not oversensitive.

minkembernard Sun 28-Jul-13 23:17:43

sorry OP. yes this is abuse.
my abusive ex also used to explode occasionally. although in waves.
he was never jealous. he did not try to control where I went or whom I saw. he did not keep money from me.
but he did scare me, he pushed me, he shouted me down, he cornered me, he would argue relentlessly, he would blame me for things that were not my responsibility and he did not do his share of the stuff that needed to be done.

does any of this sound familiar?

if you come to the EA thread and describe your experiences you will find pretty much everyone will tell you this is abuse.

and it is perfectly normal to deny, to minimise, to think you are being over dramatic...partly because your nsdh has been telling you you are dramatic and it is nothing and you are making too much of it...I bet he insists you do not bring these arguments up after he has apologised and I bet when/if he does apologise there is an unhealthy dose of I only did x because you made me...or if you were nicer/quieter/better behaved then I would not have to shout at you...if you loved me more etc.

ask yourself three questions:
- are you prepared to accept this is all your fault?
- do you want your ds to have relationships like this when she grows up
- do you think he respects you? really respect you as an individual with your own thoughts and feelings?

if the answer is no, then when you are ready leave. he will not change.
get a copy of Lundy Bancroft, why does he do that. you will find he is in there.

and no WA is not only for battered women (we are in fact trying to get a campaign going to address just these points- what abuse can encompass and that WA and other support is there for you...you do not need to wait until you are battered and bruised). many abusers never openly hit. However, shaking is a physical assault, it is illegal, if he does it again you should report it even if it is just to 101 so it can be logged without taking it further, likewise if you try to leave and feel that he may in any way harm you.

minkembernard Sun 28-Jul-13 23:20:57

x-posted with yoni and noregrets <waves>

good luck OP.
and before you even consider confronting him (I wouldn't) then read up on confronting your abuser.
also be aware counsellling is recommended for you but not couples counselling.

and have a look at links on EA thread to out of the FOG- the cycle of abuse, you will probably recognise this.

thenightsky Sun 28-Jul-13 23:32:28

I couldn't live in that atmosphere OP. sad

There is no easy way to do this. You hope he will die, leave you for someone else, hit you so the police take him away, have a " lightbulb moment " as Anyfucker put it, and change his behaviour. Not. Going. To . Happen.

Yes it is up to you, yes it is hard work, yes you can do it.

Baby steps. Women's Aid for SAFE way to leave. Friend for emotional support, possible bolt hole. He is not your friend or lover any more, although you may have to act like it. You cannot share these steps with him. It could be dangerous.

Sleep well, cover your tracks and good luck tomorrow.

tightfortime Mon 29-Jul-13 01:40:48

OP, it is EA.

My ex never shoved, blocked doors or shouted. Never. He saved some of that for when I tried to leave - the most dangerous time.

But I felt uneasy and didn't know why. I walked on eggshells, didn't see people he disapproved of, was a perfectionist, kept house and our lives spotless, did whatever he wanted to keep the peace. If we disagreed, he would listen, ask if I 'felt better now' and walk away. He refused to apologise, just agreed to differ. His life and his kids took priority over mine, I couldn't even manage a fitness class fitting in with all I had to do to 'support' his busy life. I fumed with resentment as he watched tv in another room, while I cleaned/minded children and then he would demand sex.

It is no way to live and yours is far worse. Years on, he is still puzzled as to what he did wrong, it all came out of the blue for him when i left. Clearly, i was being 'influenced' by others. It was years building up and I tried suggesting counselling etc. He was and is blind to it. Just tells everyone I obviously wanted the single life again.

Now I'm free, happy, Dc is a different child confidence wise and very happy with new man, I'm me again.

Your OH sounds like he feels pushed into marriage. He will not see his faults, change, or make you fall in love with him again. He sounds dangerous and entitled, please LTB.

deleted203 Mon 29-Jul-13 01:44:58

He's a bullying, abusive nutter. Leave him as fast as you can. No one should live like this. And it is only a matter of time before she is as terrified as you are. Please go.

ninjasquirrel Mon 29-Jul-13 07:18:42

Baby steps... It sounds like you're not using contraception. Having another child in this relationship would be a really bad idea. So sorry you've had to cope with the miscarriages on top of anything else, but please protect yourself.

LadyMud Mon 29-Jul-13 09:10:13

Oh, Vigilant, your husband sounds exactly like an old college friend of mine, who I met up with again in 2006 (bloody Friends Reunited). During a string of serious health problems on his part, we became close friends (100% platonic), and I allowed him into my family.

The verbal abuse came totally out of the blue, which made it all the more scary. Like you, I learned to walk on eggshells. For several years, I blamed it on his mental health issues, and believed he would deteriorate even more without our support.

Like you, I minimised the abuse - until he started bullying some little children in my family. That's when I posted on Mumsnet for help, and my eyes were opened. Importantly, he didn't bully other adults, only me. So therefore he was capable of controlling his behaviour, and deliberately chose to abuse me.

Luckily he was only a friend, living 80 miles away, so it was easy to cut ties. I really miss the dear friend I imagined him to be, but definitely not the abusive bully he actually is.

springytoto Mon 29-Jul-13 11:24:42

he cheated on her after he was bullied

oh really? I'd take that with a pinch of salt if I were you.

You feel sorry for him because he's paved the way for you to feel sorry for him so you put up with his abuse - 'he can't help it poor love'. You say you don't want his money because it would hurt him. Well, he's hurt you and he's hurt your little one. Big time. And he doesn't care.

You say he's 'only' shaken you twice. That's two times too many. You are minimising his abuse because he minimises his abuse. You are quick to say you want to show him the relevant sites, slow to act unless he agrees. He has got you thinking he is God, or your dad. He is neither, whether he thinks he is or not - don't you go thinking he is! He has taken away your autonomy and adulthood, reducing you to a frightened child. That's what abusers do.

You're not the only one to fall for this shit btw! Your parents sound like a chocolate teapot. though that suggests they're actually sweet, if ineffectual, and I wonder if that is the case. The chances are that you were schooled in being treated like this when you were a child. It was probably going on in your family home and you imbibed that this is what relationships are like. They aren't. it's not ok to frighten you, intimidate you, ignore you, shake you, scream at you for hours and hours. Your little one may not have heard what he does, but she will be living in the atmosphere of it, the soup of it. Get her out as soon as you can. Please don't tell her you love one another, that isn't true. You don't have to say you hate one another but don't lie or she will think that loving relationships are abusive. Just as you did as a child, probably.

Womens Aid are very good and will help you to gradually put in place a strategy to get out. There is no alternative btw - he won't change. Please ignore the weeping and hand-wringing, it is meaningless. He will only be upset that he was caught, not because he did it. He 'loves' and 'needs' you so he has someone to terrorise, it makes him feel powerful. Sad bastard (sorry, but I am short on sympathy. There are many who feel vulnerable, weak, hurt but we don't terrorise other people).

Get the Lundy Bancroft book - Why Does He Do That. You will recognise what you read, and knowledge is power. You may want to attend the Freedom Programme which is a wonderful course which explains the tactics of abusers. You also get to meet other normal, lovely women just like yourself.

My abuser tailored his abuse to what I would accept. Those ticklists encompass a wide range of abusive tactics, abusers don't necessarily use them all. They have to keep things looking normal so they can keep abusing you under cover. He probably doesn't hit you because he knows, like you, that there's no going back from that, it is tangible evidence of abuse. My abuser was also careful too clever/devious to actually hit me. he came within a hairs breadth of it in countless ways, but never actually did the deed. I used to wish he would so I had somehting to go on. I think he knew that tbh.

burberryqueen Mon 29-Jul-13 11:30:06

you are not mad, my lovely, he is.
if I were you I would start making plans to leave - you don't need money to go a women's shelter

minkembernard Mon 29-Jul-13 12:10:29

and yes I can see why you would not want to take his money from him.
but actually his dcs are entitled to his money. he is obliged to support them. and you are entitled to something too if the reason you have not been working is because you have been providing care for his dc. that is work.

before you believe too much about his past, I would speak to his ex. you will probably find he treated her the same and then painted himself the victim.

and it does not matter. nothing excuses the way he has been abusing you. nothing. you deserve better.

Pozzled Mon 29-Jul-13 13:53:25

Vigilant please do NOT try to show your H this thread or any sites about abuse etc. I know what you're thinking- 'He's a good guy really, he doesn't realize what he's doing to me, if I show him, maybe he will change'. Unfortunately, none of it is true. He will not have that lightbulb moment, because he already knows that he's treating you like shit. If you try to tell him, you will just give him ammunition to use against you... More sarcasm, more accusations of paranoia, or insinuations that you are going crazy.

Speak to women's aid when you can, keep posting here, and read as much about abusive behaviour as you can- keep noticing how many boxes he ticks. And if you're not sure if something is normal in a relationship, ask here- one feature of abuse is that you become used to it,minimize it and lose perspective on what is normal.

As I said earlier, you don't need to leave today, or tomorrow (although I'd be cheering if you felt you could!) But the sooner you can accept that HE won't change, the sooner you can make the necessary changes yourself.

burberryqueen Mon 29-Jul-13 14:05:10

google 'red flags for abuse in a relationship' and check how many boxes he ticks...

Jan45 Mon 29-Jul-13 14:16:32

He is a psycho and you are enabling it by staying with him and allowing him to abuse you, your child is also learning from this and will think it normal for a husband to shout so loud and so much that he loses his voice. You do not have a relationship, you are his punch bag, maybe not literally, yet but you are. Please wake up and give yourself and your child a life you both deserve.

minkembernard Mon 29-Jul-13 14:29:44

Jan45 hmm seriously not helpful victim blaming. shock
please have a think before you post this kind of thing of DA threads. it perpetuates myths about the survivors of DA which make it harder for them to leave.

Jan45 Mon 29-Jul-13 14:46:46

I am giving my opinion, not victim blaming, how is it not helpful - would it be better if I lied about the situation?

Please you have a think before you harrass other posters.

I hardly think my comment is going to unable her to leave him - quite the opposite.

minkembernard Mon 29-Jul-13 14:58:22

you are enabling him is victim blaming
allowing him to abuse you is victim blaming.

I am not harassing you. I am giving my opinion on your post.
I think it is a victim blaming and hence unhelpful.

Abusers constantly undermine their partners confidence and criticise their parenting ability. they don't need it from other people too.

The OP is not at fault. her husband is at fault. your post is implying she is at fault.

Jan45 Mon 29-Jul-13 15:13:22

In your book it is, I live in the real world and it's called the cold hard facts of the matter and the fact is if you stay then you are enabling and allowing someone to abuse you, sorry if this offends but I'd guess the OP already knows this.

I am not asking for your opinion on my post, I am not in dialogue with you so yes you are harrassing me.

I do know the definition of abuse thanks, I am in no way abusing the OP or trying to undermine her confidence, as I've said above, it's my opinion, what she does with it is irrelevant.

Not once have I said the OP is at fault nor does my post imply it, she is not responsible for him being an abuser but she is responsible for her own happiness and that of her child and as I said in my initial post, is entitled to a life they both deserve.

minkembernard Mon 29-Jul-13 15:27:24

jan45 it is not a fact that the OP is enabling her abuser. it is an opinion. based on a myth.
I will grant you the cold and the hard if you insist.

the cold hard facts of the matter and the fact is if you stay then you are enabling and allowing someone to abuse you

yes this ^ ^does offend me. it offends me a lot. if i did not feel very strongly about it I would not have said anything.

it is not as easy to leave an abusive relationship as many people seem to think. it is a move that should be considered carefully and which can take time to accomplish safely.

the only thing which language such as enabling and allowing adds to any of the many helpful replies the OP has already received is guilt. guilt is the last thing you need more of when you live in an abusive relationship.

guilt is not helpful.

hope on the other hand is.

DA is a complex issue. You may understand the definition but you post implies you don't understand the reality.

YoniBottsBumgina Mon 29-Jul-13 15:30:16

OP are you ok? Sorry if we have come on a bit strong. You will get excellent support here if you want it.

Jan45 Mon 29-Jul-13 15:40:08

My post was not directed at you, you decided to attack me and accuse me of being a `victim blamer` which I certainly am not, so please refrain from giving me `your` abuse.

A good friend of mine was in a very similar situation to the OP, she still thanks me to this day for being honest and telling her she was enabling and allowing the abuse by staying there - if you are offended by what I say then that's a shame, it's also a shame you are intent on having a go at me.

I was there, and it wasn't easy to get out of no, but she did it. It's not guilt in my book, it's confirmation of what she will already know.

I have a lot of hope for her and as I have said she deserves a good life.

fabulousfoxgloves Mon 29-Jul-13 15:57:13

jan, I have been thinking about what you posted and minks comment. The OPs husband's behaviour reminds me of the way my mother treated me. My father stood by and did nothing for whatever reason. He enabled her behaviour by doing nothing. I, the target of her behaviour, did not surely.

In my own recent marriage, my STBXH started to emotionally abuse my dd and also pushed her. I left. Had I not left, I would have been enabling him. My dd was NOT.

The OP does not have anyone to step in and stop this for her. She has been living with it so long she takes it as normal. She needs every ounce of support and courage to get out of the web he has spun around her, preferably before dc2 comes along. She is not enabling his behaviour, she is the target of it. She is not in any way responsible for his behaviour towards her.

CailinDana Mon 29-Jul-13 16:03:23

Vigilant if someone on the street shook you would you just shrug it off? Of course not, because it is an assault. You would be well within your rights to report them to the police. Your husband should protect and support you, not assault you. In 11 years my dh has never even raised his voice never mind shook me. I love being with him because he makes me feel and loved. That's how it should be.

Jan45 Mon 29-Jul-13 16:08:37

fabulous, yes I agree, no way is she responsible for his behaviour towards her, what she does about it however is her responsibility for herself and her child.

RaspberrySnowCone Mon 29-Jul-13 16:21:11

You must not put up with this OP, your husband has some serious issues, is unhappy, controlling and abusive. His behaviour is completely unacceptable, no man who loves his wife would behave like that. Everyone rows with their partner from time to time but arguments happen on equal terms, your husband is trying to wear you down. It's setting a very bad example for your daughter who doesn't deserve to go through this, no matter how much you think she doesn't know there is still plenty that she will be aware of.

Can you make plans to leave? Or at the very least turn the tables on him and be clear he has gone way to far and you are leaving? Can you go to a friend/family?

fabulousfoxgloves Mon 29-Jul-13 16:34:17

In our neoliberal climate, yes, but equally, that is a huge burden to place on someone who is at the stage of realisation, without proper support, or real financial independence from someone invested in their staying. Leaving often takes a long time, even if the intention is to go (and if the perpetrator promises to change or controls the victim to such an extent, she can't think straight, it is not even that simple). None of that has anything to do with enabling, I would not have thought.

Anyway, not sure if that helps the OP, sorry. Apart from anything else, I would wish the OP courage and strength, and support.

fabulousfoxgloves Mon 29-Jul-13 16:34:51

Sorry, first para was for jan

Jan45 Mon 29-Jul-13 16:45:33

Fabulous, that makes sense yes.

Definition of enabling: To supply with the means, knowledge, or opportunity; make able - sorry in my book she is enabling, purely by the fact she is there and allowing him to abuse.

Now before I get flamed again, yes I know it's a hard situation to get out of, I've been there with my friend but until the day dawns that the OP actually feels she is able to get out of this horrible situation, nothing will change, we're only worth the credit we give ourselves, I hope the OP realises that she is worth so much more, as is her child and she gets the support and finds the strength she will need to get out.

minkembernard Mon 29-Jul-13 17:02:11

jan45 if you feel I am abusing you rather than just disagreeing with your choice of language, then by all means report my post.

ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmmmmmmmm Mon 29-Jul-13 17:08:38

Vigilant,

You wrote " i am nervous each day ".

That is it. There.

You should not be nervous around your life partner.sad

GettingStrong Mon 29-Jul-13 17:13:59

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Jan45 Mon 29-Jul-13 17:29:15

I never accused, I put it how I saw it and the definition is above.

Trying to twist those words into something sinister to make it look like I am blaming the OP for her OHs behaviour is wrong.

As with my friend, it's a long road to getting there but if she really wants a better life, it can happen, eventually.

Vivacia Mon 29-Jul-13 18:05:55

Jan as mink said,
you are enabling him is victim blaming
allowing him to abuse you is victim blaming

Why do you think your posting is helpful? Or is it not meant to be?

Noregrets78 Mon 29-Jul-13 19:00:59

Not sure how to word this right, apologies if it comes out as a ramble...

I don't believe any abused woman is responsible for their abuse, in the same way that I don't believe anyone attacked is responsible for it. However there's a subtle message in there that you CAN do something to fix it.

Being abused makes you feel so low, and powerless. You can't see a way out, feel you're going mad, and that you're at the mercy of another person's (unpredictable) moods.

The message that you can do something about it should be an empowering one, not a blaming one. The feeling of taking back control of your life is great.

Hope OP is OK and not too shocked by the debate that's started!

fabulousfoxgloves Mon 29-Jul-13 19:14:32

I have been thinking about this, jan, and the point is that the OP can do nothing about his behavior (your sentence she is not responsible for his behaviour, she is responsible for what she does about it). She can do nothing about it, except leave, and for the reasons already stated, it is never that simple.
He, however, can do something about it. Stop. However, he won't because it serves him If OP leaves, he will find someone else to abuse, sure as day. Only he can do something about his behaviour.
So, she is enabling him by being there, providing with the opportunity to abuse? By virtue of being the mother of his child, believing he was a decent person worth sticking with? Can I tell you something? I left my marriage, my ex still harrassed me. have tried to close off every avenue legally, he still tries to find a way around. I am enabling him by being alive, because he will not let go. If I follow your argument.

fabulousfoxgloves Mon 29-Jul-13 19:16:07

Though can I just add, for the OP, that my life is oh so much better without him

LegoLegoEverywhere Mon 29-Jul-13 19:18:08

I can see what Jan is trying to say. I was in an EA relationship and it took a (very stressful) year for me to get him out. During that time I had CBT and further along in the sessions we discussed by behaviour and how I reacted to him.

I was an enabler. I had been brought up as one by my mother. I fantasized as a child that I was adopted and my real mum would come and rescue me. (Your writing about him leaving for his ex struck a cord OP) My H was not in the same league as her but bad enough. My therapist made me see that although I enabled him I was in no way responsible for his actions. Those were his alone. I worked on my own self esteem to counteract my conditioned responses.

So yes not really helpful at this point in time but something to come back to in the future to ensure the OP doesn't find herself in this situation again.

In the meantime its babysteps. Get yourself some RL support, speak to your trusted friends and tell your GP. I realised the terrible financial position I was in (he had all the investments in his name having convinced me to part with mine) so started by opening my own accounts and putting money in when I could. I also got supermarket vouchers / stamps every week so I knew I could feed the kids if things became dire.

You can get through this OP. flowers

minkembernard Mon 29-Jul-13 19:23:34

Jan i can now see based on your experience with your friend you were genuinely trying to help. I reacted badly because I have seen so many threads where the OP has had pressure headed upon them when they are already vulnerable
As gettingStrong says it is a process. it takes time to leave. leaving an abusive relationship is often far harder than leaving a non abusive on.
I should have worded my original response more gently.
survivors are not enabling their own abuse even if they stay. at no point do they consent to or allow abuse. abuse is entirely the choice of the abuser.

So let's not argue the point any further I can see we are all trying to help the OP so let's get back to that.

apologies OP for the hijacking.flowers
please keep posting. we are here to help you. it is possible to leave. many many women on MNEMONIC have and are living their lives free from control.
I hope you have had success contacting WA and are starting to see through the fog and realise, no you are definitely not mad.

Hissy Mon 29-Jul-13 19:45:54

The only thing an abused woman is responsible for is saving herself and her children.

Everything else is by the bye.

OP, please don't run from this thread, I know it's hard to hear all this, but for some of us it's physically hard to bear; seeing someone go through the same as we have ourselves.

It sounds the easiest thing to say, but the hardest thing to to, to leave, but really, all of that is in your mind.

Please my love, understand that you didn't cause this, you can't fix it, it won't ever get any better, and your child will grow up thinking this is what SHE should be aiming for.

By dealing with this now, you can start your life over, with her, and show her how wonderful life really can be.

I got out 2.5 years ago. I can't tell you how wonderful life is when your stomach isn't lurching every time you hear him breath in, or his footsteps coming in your direction, that million miles an hour inventory you take of the house when he comes back into it.

Give your tenants notice, move back home with your DD. Get the police to help you keep yourself safe, go see your GP, get this all logged, get the HV logged too, so that you have this in as many places as possible.

You can get legal aid for DV sometimes, so make sure you keep your chances as high as possible. In any event, IF you need restraining orders, you'll need all manner of evidence and corroboration to get that.

Let's hope you don't need any of that, but if you prepare as if you will, you'll be prepared if when he turns nasty.

Keep talking to us love, we know the panic, and can talk you through it.

fabulousfoxgloves Mon 29-Jul-13 20:02:54

All the best, OP, lots of good advice. I wish you strength.

To the rest of it, let me just say I have never enabled anyone by virtue of being myself.

Vigilant Mon 29-Jul-13 20:21:13

Noregrets78 Thank you for your post. I wish you luck and good wishes in your future. Sounds like the right decision without question. I am not sure/comfortable yet with the idea that he has been violent. I don't fit being shaken twice into the violent category and feel sad for him that I might get to be comfortable with that idea.

I have been reading all the posts over the last few hours but have not been able to post as I've been looking after my little one who is now in bed.

I am exhausted and didn't sleep after reading that I might be in danger.

I slept in the spare room last night and did my hubby the courtesy of telling him this calmly before I did so. His response was a sneering one, just a mild but sneering and loud "Jesus Chriiiiist grow up". I felt a little empowered and said calmly that " I was now all quite grown up" and reminded him that he had threatened to leave last week but yet didn't. I suggested that him having fortnight in a hotel would be good to get some space. Or that he should stay with a friend to which he replied, sadly, that he didn't have any friends (that shocked me and made me very sad and sorry for him). It's weird, and I digress, but only the other year he mocked me and said I didn't have many friends but I actually have about 8 very close ones grin)

He didn't leave the house until an hour after he should have this morning and I thought that perhaps he'd packed a bag. All day I wondered this and jumped when I heard a noise. But he's back this evening being polite (well so far anyway).

I have had my eyes opened a fair bit. That's to say the least by reading the posts on here!

I just wonder if there's a chance that this is just a grumpy guy who has a temper that gets the better of him and everyone on here is worrying about me unecessarily?

I am sure he loves me. I wonder too, more of a question really, If I was a bad person, ie. who seems to inadvertently push all his buttons (I swear I am not aware of this and strive to avoid all conflict, so this is hypothetical.)...anyway if I was the cause of this anger does that justify it...or no matter how bad a person's behavour was, is there never an excuse for shouting? I'm confused, clearly I accept, since other couples argue.

I don't argue, and can say I've never shouted first at anyone and tell myfriends tha I'm like a child when it comes to anger. I fear it.

Can I put this another way, when does a shouting man become an abuser? I can't see hubby in this way at all.

Vigilant Mon 29-Jul-13 20:32:01

minkembernard Sun 28-Jul-13 23:17:43
sorry OP. yes this is abuse.
my abusive ex also used to explode occasionally. although in waves.
he was never jealous. he did not try to control where I went or whom I saw. he did not keep money from me.
but he did scare me, he pushed me, he shouted me down, he cornered me, he would argue relentlessly, he would blame me for things that were not my responsibility and he did not do his share of the stuff that needed to be done.

does any of this sound familiar?

if you come to the EA thread and describe your experiences you will find pretty much everyone will tell you this is abuse.

and it is perfectly normal to deny, to minimise, to think you are being over dramatic...partly because your nsdh has been telling you you are dramatic and it is nothing and you are making too much of it...I bet he insists you do not bring these arguments up after he has apologised and I bet when/if he does apologise there is an unhealthy dose of I only did x because you made me...or if you were nicer/quieter/better behaved then I would not have to shout at you...if you loved me more etc.

Well it's like you have a crystal ball. He is NEVER jealous, doesn't contrl me directly, and is v generous with money but just has a templer. Is there an EA thread, I am new on here but will type that in and see it I can locate it. I would be interested to get a bloke on here responding to my post - would he be shocked or say it's normal I wonder?

A poster (sorry not check who) mentioned about whether I'm so used to this that it's become normalized? I am not sure, I'm not close to my mother and always believed my dad didn't love me (though I did tell my mum that). They never said they loved me or were proud of me and I did that thing where I took up hobbies I hated to get dad to spend time with me and I always tried to get his attention and have him be proud of me. I don't remember cuddles or days out, except when my neighbours took me too the park. Mum didn't work so she could have but didn't. Hubby says they are cold fishes, lazy and selfish and unloving though they are very different with our little one. So maybe it's just me? Unlovable? Anyway I'm sure thats a different post lol?!

Thank you for some of the posts on here, especially when someone mentions their own circumstances. I appreciate that you know what you are talking about. I'm not yet ready to accept my own situation but do feel that I've had an epiphany (is that the right word?)

I called WA this morning and said I couldn't talk as my little one was in the house; I asked could someone read my post and tell me what WA thought about it. They told me to post it on their board and a moderator would reply if I asked them to. I logged on tonight but it advises 2 days for a registration to be accepted. It also says that in order to register I needed to tick a box confirming I was a survivor of domestic violence even though I'M NOT. I ticked it anyway but clearly this isn't the right site for me and I wld be laughed away.

Vigilant Mon 29-Jul-13 20:33:15

Hi Hissy - get all this logged - where exactly? Sorry to be dumb

BMW6 Mon 29-Jul-13 20:34:03

If he uses shouting to intimidate you, knowing that he is doing so, then he is an abuser.

My own DH has a very loud voice when angry - he used to be a drill seargent- but is a world away from the behaviour your own husband is doing.

BMW6 Mon 29-Jul-13 20:36:55

Are you afraid of him?

If you are, then you MUST get out of it. No-one should be in a relationship with a person who makes them afraid. Ever.

Noregrets78 Mon 29-Jul-13 20:47:03

vigilant Everything you say is just so familiar to us who are slightly further ahead with the process. Minimising, normalising, not being sure if he is abusive or not. Personally I had a great childhood, and have never felt I might be 'unloveable'. I find it so sad that you think that might be the problem. It's absolutely not.

The EA support thread is really great, and includes links to some websites at the top. I'm no good at linking to threads, but it's on the relationships board, and is very active so always near the top. Currently called 'support for those in emotionally abusive relationships: 24'. Personally I started looking on there after I posted, described myself as 'empathetic' in relation to my husband, and got a reply that I was actually 'pathetic'. it was the last thing I wanted to hear when I was already so low, and someone recommended I go over there to get advice from people who understood what I was going through. I suggest you do the same.

The book by Lundy Bancroft mentioned a couple of times is truly life changing. There's a section in there on different types of abusers - might fit in one or many of the examples, but you'll recognise him there.

minkembernard Mon 29-Jul-13 20:52:26

EARN thread many helpful looks at the top. try out of the fog.

and no, sadly not a crystal ball twenty-twenty
hindsight. sad

shouting is abuse if the purpose is to intimidate and control so that he can either get you to do what he wants or avoid being asked to do things he does not want to do. and also if he says you make him do it.

good luck OP and keep posting.

minkembernard Mon 29-Jul-13 21:03:35

vigilant the definition of domestic violence is broad and the legal definition of abuse has changed only this year.
It includes coercive control and threats of violence as well as actual physical assault.

I too find it hard to claim to be a survivor of DV but I am a survivor of DA. been that took.a while to sink in.

whatever you call it....and it is hard to admit even to yourself even though there is no shame attached to you because you so want it not to be true. it would ne better if he were just a grumpy man but he is not. a grumpy man would not follow you from room to room screaming until he is hoarse.

I know it is hard not to feel sorry for him but try not to. he is trying to manipulate you. abusers shift tactics as soon as they realise their current tactics is not working...threats,.shouting, shaking, pleading apologizing diverting attention claiming they are the victim or a product of their childhood turning on the charm threats of suicide. these are all tactics. and abusers use them in any blend they think will pay out.

minkembernard Mon 29-Jul-13 21:06:19

sorry!! my phone is terrible.
EA thread with helpful links grin
a helpful look would not be much use.

GettingStrong Mon 29-Jul-13 21:06:39

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Vivacia Mon 29-Jul-13 22:46:01

OP I know grumpy men with short tempers. They don't shake women or follow them around shouting at them or stand in doorways blocking the exit.

As for being annoying, I am annoying. I sing loudly and badly on every car journey. I ask my partner three questions in a row without listening to one answer. I leave my towel on the floor of the landing. However, I only ever receive respect and compassion and patience and forgiveness from my partner. You are not causing this.

FairyFi Mon 29-Jul-13 23:21:23

darling Vigilant

You are terrified.

Nothing more, or anyone else matters than that. You make your mind up.

Your choices are your own, they do not belong to anyone else regardless of how you may feel pressures this way and that.

Listen to yourself saying you are terrified. there is loads of help out there when you want it.

Abused women end up feeling they have no choice, in this and in every thing else you do have choice. Noone can make those choices for you.

You find out what you need to know and go your own way lovely.

I am so sorry for the things you have experienced, you and your LO.

My heart goes to you, and I wish you all the best with your way.

((hugs)) xxx

You will find a bolholt with many of us posting on your thread xx take care of you xxx

FairyFi Mon 29-Jul-13 23:21:39

bolthole

AnyFucker Mon 29-Jul-13 23:48:24

OP, I can see you are desperate for just one person to come on here and say what you are experiencing at the hands of this man is normal, but I am afraid the only individual that ever could would also be an abuser

Molly333 Mon 29-Jul-13 23:54:48

That's a really sad sad story but maybe my story will help you . I was a child like yr child , my mum started like this then as I got older she made many excuses for him , I remember seeing my mum beaten in the end ( he has not hit you YET, he will it always escalates!

But guess what I married exactly the same man , I made excuses until one dreadful night where he went for my daughter, I fought him but ended up in hospital , seven years on and buckets of help and counselling we are ok , we hv been so so poor but really we are not , we are safe and so so happy , he doesn't see his children now , he can't be bothered although of course that's all my fault ( if it rains it is ) and guess what again I'm at university and he's not got a job , his family don't care anymore for him either , finally you hv to get out , you have to be poor it's part of yr journey but overall save your children from watching this and living yr life as I did !! Counselling is yr answer here , you need to relearn to live again and you can as u know already it's wrong . Good luck missy x

springytotty Tue 30-Jul-13 00:26:08

great post Molly

that shocked me and made me very sad and sorry for him - because it was meant to. He knows how to wind you in, put on the doleful look: 'I ain't got nobody, only you'

It's all shit, darling.

You spent a whole day wondering if he'd packed a bag. You jumped when he came home. That's not normal! It's not normal to live like that. You may never have seen a functioning, loving relationship - but I assure you it isn't like that. People don't jump like a cat on a hot tin roof when their supposed loving partner comes home. People aren't frightened of their partners.

Please read the Lundy Bancroft book (sorry to nag! But don't let him see it). Your husband is an abuser. Posters on your thread have been where you are and can see it because we've lived it not seen it once removed in a friend You want to hear a sad, sad story of a sad, sad childhood? My husband had it - he wore it like a badge. I felt so sorry for him.... which was how he hooked me in and kept me hooked in. I had to get over the compassion I felt for him - and the way that dawned was that I realised he was not experiencing his own pain about his childhood, he was punishing me for it. But I wasn't there; I didn't condone it and I wouldn't have supported it if I had been there. It had nothing to do with me, yet I was being made to pay for it.

you are not being disloyal to work through this without his knowledge. You are saving yourself and your daughter. If you can't do it for you yet, do it for her.

Woodlicence Tue 30-Jul-13 00:33:56

Would also recommend Why does he do that? by Lundy Bancroft or The emotionally abusive relationship by Beverly Engel? It might help to see things in black and white.
My partner never shouted, called me names and didn't actually hit me but he was abusive and it took me a long time to realise what was going on as he was very manipulative.
The questionnaire in the latter book brought me to my senses. On Amazon you can look inside the book and read the questionnaire without buying it.
Sometimes someone makes you feel bad but it's hard to pinpoint exactly what they are doing but if he is making you miserable then there definitely is a problem.
None of this is your fault but you may want to look at why you accepted his behaviour so you can make sure it never happens again. Sounds like you were emotionally neglected by your parents, this happened to me as well. I never thought my parents did anything wrong but they didn't do much right either. It was only when I had my own kids and loved them and lavished my energy and attention on them that I realised how crap my parents had been. I would never treat my children the way I was treated. My parents are different with my kids as well doesn't change the way they were with me and and don't ever think you were unlovable it was their problem that they couldn't love you properly not you.

saggyhairyarse Tue 30-Jul-13 00:45:04

This is domestic abuse. When you say things build up and then something breaks the last straw on the camels back, that is an atypical abusive cycle. They lose the plot, you have the honeymoon period, the tension gradually builds up and then they blow again - round and a round.

Every day that you stay is a another day that you have lost to living with the anxiety of the abusive cycle reaching boiling point and, yes, your daughter feels that fear too (she will also grow up thinking that this is how men treat women and more than likely chose similar life partners herself, do you want that?).

There is no reason to stay, please leave and make a happier future for you and your daughter.

minkembernard Tue 30-Jul-13 09:42:52

springtotty excellent insight into him punishing you for his childhood. thinking about my x did the same. punished me and everyone else and not only for that but for anything else he felt was not fair in his life.

on that note of compassion vigilant, most survivors of DA are very compassionate people (well i would say that wink) but what you need to do is to spend some of that compassion on yourself. think what you would advise a friend to do if she were in you position.

keep posting and if there is any practical advice other posters can give you on getting over some of the hurdles that you believe will make it hard for you to leave, then ask. there may be excellent suggestions- such as the one above about buying saving stamps if you can in with the shopping etc. so you have some fall back. also get any important documents safe and copy any financial details you can find. it all sounds a bit mercenary. but you are entitled to some of the financial assets of your marriage and he may try to hide them if he knows you are going. remember this is for your dd.

Hi Vigilant, hope you have managed to take a step today.

Pozzled Tue 30-Jul-13 16:08:38

I hope you're still reading, Vigilant. It must be a real shock to the system seeing how everyone here views your relationship. You must badly want someone to say 'Yes, it's normal, and if you follow steps x, y and z it will all be fixed'. You now realize that we won't say that, but I guess it can't have sunk in yet.

As WideScreenViper says, one step at a time. Have you looked for the Lundy Bancroft book yet? Can you think of someone who could take delivery for you? You wouldn't even need to tell them what it is, you could say it's a surprise for your husband and you don't want him to see it...

(Well, it would be sort-of true!) wink

giveitago Tue 30-Jul-13 16:54:37

OP - so sorry you are going through this. He is abusing you.

It can take time for you to come to terms with the fact that you are a victim.

My h is doing the same - in the name of peace and quiet, in the name of protecting dc from hearing horrible stuff, and in the name of 'family' (his idea of family) just took it all.

But guess what, each time you accept and then normalise something they up the ante and so it continues. It got to the stage that my dh would just hide behind ds. I have to bend to his will and then sort of apologise for it and then thank him.

I've started standing up for myself but it's made him worse as he tries to put me back in my place. This is because he's used to the upper hand will not put up with a fight back.

So, there's nothing I can do - he will not see sense - he will scream at me so he doesn't have to face himself and he knows he's very, very wrong. But it suits him like this. Your h is the same and you know it.

And further down the line it WILL get worse. You'll either get worn down or you'll start to assert yourself and he'll fight you back harder.

So keep things to yourself. And start planning how you will leave. It may take a few years (as it will in my case).

But before you can do anything you need to come to terms with the fact that you are being abused emotionally and, yes, WA do help women who are being EA as it's classed as domestic violence.

OP I do feel for you. I was like you - I'd post here and there and get the same responses as you and my view was also 'it's not that bad, he's not a terrible person'. Actually, it is bad and he's acting badly. It's taken me about 5 years to come out of this denial. You won't progress until you do.

Nancy66 Tue 30-Jul-13 17:01:30

Agree with everyone, you have to end this.

You live in fear of your partner. How can that be right? It's also a horribly toxic and stressful atmosphere for a child to live in.

He's your husband, he would still have to provide financial support if you split whether he likes it or not.

schmarn Tue 30-Jul-13 17:59:55

Vigilant, I can only affirm what others have said here. This is abuse. Holding someone and shaking them is physical violence. OK, it is not at the stage where he is battering you but, as you say, you are on eggshells all the time. That is no way to live.

Can I ask an obvious question? Have you ever discussed with him the fact that he seems unable to control his temper and that he should see a counsellor? If so, how did he react? I don't know a great deal about anger management counselling although I do know that your husband's affliction is a common one. Key to any hope here is that he recognises that he has a problem and seeks help. If he is prepared to do that maybe things can improve.

Please do not fool yourself into thinking he is a nice guy with a bit of a temper. Normal people don't blow their fuse over absolute trivia. The fact is that even he cannot control himself once the red mist has descended.

I could be wrong but I suspect that you would be (understandably) too afraid to broach the subject of counselling with him for fear of him kicking off. If that's the case then I'm afraid that you need to get yourself and your child away from him. It is only a matter of time before he starts raging at your daughter (if he hasn't started already - you haven't said one way or another). If he loses his rag at you for your tone of voice or because you dislodged the plastic wrap on the TV remote, your daughter is going to do something that sends him off a cliff. At that point, it isn't about your life choices and whether you can put up with him, you have someone else's welfare to consider. The moment your daughter becomes a victim is the moment that you start to bear some responsibility. You cannot allow that to happen.

minkembernard Tue 30-Jul-13 23:28:21

giveitago sorry you too are having such a horrible time.sad

good luck and god speed with making good your escape. you are wise to stay as safe as you can. I hope it comes as soon as possible.

baby steps ..one by one...out the door.

vigilant hope you are ok today.

whitesugar Thu 01-Aug-13 12:15:58

I wish someone had spelled it out to me when I was in your situation that I was enabling abuse. I was just like you trying to normalize things that were absolutely not normal. Your husband is not a nice person and he will not change. I experienced episodes of shoving, pushing about, terrifying angry outbursts and fooled myself that it wasn't bad as I wasn't hit. One day I asked a simple question and got thrown down the stairs and kicked repeatedly. Like someone up thread said this is a probable outcome for you.

Leaving is hard but you can do it. Your DD knows what is going on. I left penniless 15 years ago escorted out by police with toddler and pregnant. You can do it. ring WA this is their job they know the answers that you don't. You don't need to live your life like this. It is hard but it's just a different hard to what you are living with now. I wish you well and would love to hear that one day you and your DD are living in a loving environment.

theWookiesWife Thu 01-Aug-13 23:21:55

I was so sad reading this OP - but it's so lovely to see all the support and advice you are offered on here . I really hope that this chap sorts his issues out and can start leaving normal happy family life with you and your daughter - or that you are able to move on to new pastures. Good luck to you all :-) hope you come through this ok !

Vigilant Fri 02-Aug-13 21:55:19

giveitago thank you for your post. I haven't been on here for a few days. Much to think about and also h about too. I have said no to him a few times this week and he has been very quiet about it. I'm not sure he expected it! Simple things like no to popping to the shop when he could have gone etc but it all felt empowering!

I have mentioned his temper a few times to him but not in a counselling type of way. I don't actually fear provoking him at the moment - why is that I wonder!? I really don't know but I feel stronger than of late even though there is tension when we are together i.e. in the kitchen at the same time etc. I think it's all the lovely support on here.

I have also confided in a very, very dear male friend and asked him to have a read at this lot. Chaps like that give me hope that not all men are like this.

I have also let a close female friend read it too so I am reaching out both here and at home. I think that helps grin)

Vigilant Fri 02-Aug-13 22:07:23

Just a quick update. I am still in the spare room - hub didn't move out to a hotel for 2 weeks (he had threatened to leave ). I asked him to move out in a controlled way - 2 weeks in a hotel for thinking and breathing space. Anway when he didn't I moved to the spare room.

He hasn't asked when/if I'm coming back.
I want him to so that I can say that I'm not coming back as there is too much wrong in our marriage. We can then fix it (over time) or move on separately. Life is very short. There were other paths in life that I thought I was going to take and I guess that there are other paths out there too in the future.

He seems very unhappy so perhaps he also wants out? I will wait and see what happens. At present there is no dialogue other than around what we are eating etc.

I am trying to keep things calm though not sure how successful I am going to be. Tonight he wants me to cut his hair. He asked me the other night but I had already made plans to go out. When I came back later than expected, he was in bed and the next night I was out again (working) so couldn't. He's just asked again but I told him that I was working (true) so he has had a bit of a moan about it but I didn't respond. I am sure anger is brewing but he hasn't blown yet. Little one and I are out all day tomorrow so that will be good.

Thanks for all your posts.

I haven't responded to all of them, I hope that is ok. I have read them and feel supported by you all but I started to get stressed about having to reply to each and every one of you and then supposed and hoped that you might not mind.

Regarding the arguments over me 'enabling' my abuser. I have to say I was shocked and stressed about that. With a bit of thought though, I suppose that in being here, I am certainly enabling hubby to have a suitable target for his anger. I believe that we are a wrong pairing and perhaps if he was with someone else he wouldn't be this way.

I guess I hope that he also comes to that conclusion and agrees to an amicable parting.

Cheerio for now

minkembernard Fri 02-Aug-13 22:22:16

vigilant I am sorry if us debating on your thread upset yousad
you are not to blame though! you don't make him do this. he chooses to do it and sad to say if he were with someone else, there would probably be a honeymoon period and then much the same would happen again. it is not to do with how he feels or what you do it is about how he thinks of you and probably of women in general. (bit of Lundy there but it makes sense- abuse stems from entitlement and thinking other people, his partner is there to meet his needs which are more important than his partners). You could not change yourself enough to make him stop not matter what you did. only he can change.

and all you can do is leave. live your own life and live it well flowers

and no you don't have to respond to everyonegrin

glad you are reaching out in rl. and no not all men are like that.
keep posting and / or come to the EA thread for support. you will find you will need a lot both while you are leaving and afterwards. it takes time to heal and untangle all the knots and confusion. be kind to yourself.smile

slipperySlip000 Fri 02-Aug-13 23:49:52

vigilent am so pleased you are reaching out for support in rl. No need at all to respond to individual posts. Well done. Stay strong.

Doughnut123 Sat 03-Aug-13 00:15:57

You are NOT being hypersensitive!! I think your husband has told you you are hypersensitive and 'mad,' but he's projecting onto you. It is he who is the hypersensitive one! He's chipping away at your self esteem. He sounds like he has some serious mental health issues. And I totally agree with the other messages, he is most definitely abusing you. It is physical and emotional abuse. He is displaying signs of being a passive aggressive person, at times- withdrawing from you and clamming up. Unable to express his feelings of anger. Then, suddenly, it's like a volcano has erupted for no apparent reason. You saying you're walking on egg shells makes me want to cry. No one should feel afraid of their partner. You and your daughter need to get away from him. You have to put her needs and yours first. She will pick up on a lot that could really affect her. She will sense the fear in you. I seriously urge you to contact 'Women's Aid,' for support and also, try speaking to your health visitor. She will be able to help you access the help that you need. Be strong. It will get better. You are doing a great job as a mother. One day, you'll look back on this time and think, thank God I got out. Good luck.

I am so pleased to hear you have stayed strong, reflected much and kept stepping forward.

Most of all that I think you have accepted you do not need any black and white situation to help you decide. You seem to have accepted being incompatible and life being too short is enough. And to have detached from him and his needs, quite a bit!

Also getting RL help, friends, WA, solicitors, CAB can all help to get you put a plan together. All the best with keeping on smile.

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