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Happily married but considering abortion

(215 Posts)
confused75 Fri 26-Jul-13 17:01:07

I found out i was pregnant last week. I think I am probably about the five week mark.

I was initially in shock but as the week has gone on, I feel increasing negative about the pregnancy.

I am in my late thirties and have never been especially maternal and my hubby is around the same age. We both work a lot, we aren't rich but we do enjoy traveling and our current freedom.

I am really surprised at how negative my reaction has been. If I had known how strong my reaction was I would have taken more precautions.

I also feel incredibly selfish that I would be considering abortion when I really have a wonderful husband who will support me through anything. We both agree that if we went through with the abortion it would also be an agreement to remain child free. This thought doesn't scare me too much but maybe it is my nerves and fears taking over,

I feel like a freak of nature! Has anyone else had any similar experiences or advice?

Warbride Fri 26-Jul-13 17:06:13

If that's how you feel now then when that child comes along it wouldn't be fair. However, it has been known to change a person completely the other way. I have known at least 2 examples of this. If you are going to do it however go and see your GP asap.

ChippingInHopHopHop Fri 26-Jul-13 17:09:38

I don't know how any of us can help you with this decision sad

I would be hesitant to make any agreement with DH about remaining child free if you have a termination though, as you don't know how you will feel afterwards.

You say the thought of remaining child free 'doesn't scare you too much' which indicates to me that you are not entirely sure it's what you want...

Unfortunately when you are already pregnant your hormones are zapping around like mad things and even people who have been actively trying to get pregnant can get scared and feel like they're making a huge mistake, so I wouldn't actually put too much store in how you feel 'right now' and think back to how you felt before this - what did you think your future held? How did you feel about having children?

confused75 Fri 26-Jul-13 17:20:49

Thanks for the replies. I m trying to keep a clear mind but I keep gravitating to the negative things, how my life will change.

I've never been very maternal but I did think I would be happy if I got pregnant. In the last year I felt increasing comfortable being childfree, as my friends and family have had children I have always been happy for them. I changed from wondering if it would ever happen to us, to appreciating our freedom.

I think because this pregnancy was a quite "passive" decision rather than an active "I want a baby" maybe it has been more a shock to the system.

so confused, but very glad to be trying to figure things out

CogitoErgoSometimes Fri 26-Jul-13 17:51:02

I sympathise. When I discovered I was pg mid-thirties I was single, had a career, travelled, was happy with childless, partnerless status and - to put the tin lid on it - the father was someone very unsuitable. The shock and dread you're describing lasted a long time and all I could think about were the downsides... the expense, the loss of freedom, the difficulty doing my job, the family disapproval, no support etc. Gravitating to the negative, as you say. It was the first hospital appointment and hearing a heart-beat that gave me a bit of hope and, whatever you decide, I'm just glad you're taking a bit of time to think.

Be very very careful, you've got a few weeks to think it through.

I never thought I wanted any more children, so when I fell pregnant late last year I made the choice to terminate the pregnancy.
Termination caused damage & as a result I'm now sterile. What I thought I wanted right? No, not only do I wake up every morning grieving for the baby that I chose to abort, which feels wrong because I have no right to grieve. But it kills that I've lost the chance to have any more children.

Obviously this can't be the case for everyone, but just don't make a choice on your shock reaction tbat you might regret. Sometimes you only get one chance.

yummymumtobe Fri 26-Jul-13 20:00:11

It is a struggle for you and I totally understand. I found out I was pregnant with no 2 and was devastated. I am 8 months gone now and still feeling weird about the new baby coming! I went through with it in the end as i convinced myself that i would want a sibling for dd eventually as was worried that if i got rid of the baby I could end up never being able to get pregnant again as some sort of punishment.

You feel you don't want children and there is nothing wrong with that. Some people genuinely don't. Lots of people will say you should go ahead as you'll change your mind when the baby arrives etc. But that might not be the case. I know a few people who genuinely don't want children or are older and never had children and who never wanted them because of work, travel etc. I work at a charity where there are several older women without children as they spend a lot of time travelling to develop

yummymumtobe Fri 26-Jul-13 20:02:41

Posted too soon!

Travelling to developing countries and working in projects and having a family would mean they couldn't fulfill their vocation easily and they feel more strongly about the projects they help.

You have time to think. Make sure you discuss it with partner properly - you don't want him to suddenly think that he should have had a family on a few years. You need to e really honest.

Good luck with your decision.

confused75 Fri 26-Jul-13 21:38:09

Thank you so much for sharing such personal experiences to help me. I really appreciate it so much.

I am lucky my hubbie is very open and understanding so we are planning on talking over the weekend and see where our thoughts settle.

pointythings Fri 26-Jul-13 22:02:36

The only thing I can add is that when I was pg with my very much wanted DD1, I had negative thoughts too, all focusing on the things I wouldn't be able to do any more.

Many of those things turned out to be still possible, others were replaced with new things I found I wanted to do.

I'm just really glad you and your DH are talking about this honestly and openly, it will help you come to a decision that truly belongs to both of you.

Twinklestein Fri 26-Jul-13 22:10:15

This happened to a friend of mine who thought she couldn't get pregnant (had been told by doctors she was infertile).

Career woman, set up her own company, got married, then shit, she got pregnant by some fluke of nature. Felt like her life was over, how was she going to deal with her company etc.

She nearly terminated, and had major ante-natal therapy. Wasn't sure she'd done the right thing keeping it.

But she is a very, very happy proud mum to a beautiful girl.

Works 3 days a week, has childcare etc.

Sometimes life turns up cards you don't expect to deal with, it doesn't have to be a negative.

Everyone's different, but I thought I'd share...

sandiy Fri 26-Jul-13 22:17:55

I did nt want my last pregnancy.It was the last thing in the world I wanted I just could nt cope with another baby I used to lay in bed at night praying for a miscarriage My husband was thrilled that I was pregnant I felt really trapped.I spent the whole pregnancy going through the motions pretending to be happy about it.I did nt want this baby at all if I had never have seen him I would nt have missed it.BUT I was induced at 42 weeks and pushed out a long skinny man child He hit my tummy hot and wet and that second literally I fell in love with him even now I can't describe it.It was primal He is the best mistake I've ever made I adore him so what I'm saying is pregnancy is a strange business.Give it some serious thought feelings change.

Notsoyummymummy1 Fri 26-Jul-13 22:24:18

Can I ask one question - imagine you are very old and lying in hospital and facing the end of your life - who do you want or envisage standing at your bedside?

eurozammo Fri 26-Jul-13 22:28:14

Being childfree is great, if that is what you want. Spend some time thinking over the decision though. A pregnancy is always a shock and it is easy to focus on the stuff you will be giving up (travel). I've seen people on the conception boards who have ttc'd for years and even had IVF have an "argh what have I done?" moment when they get to the BFP.

Eglute Fri 26-Jul-13 22:39:00

What I'd say... Everything happens for a reason...

Eglute Fri 26-Jul-13 22:49:12

But you can travel and do things with kids. I've been everywhere, seen so many things, experienced so many beautiful moments in my life.. I got accidentally pregnant quite young. I wasn't ready to become a mum but yet I had the most beautiful baby boy in the world. My seconded baby was planned. I'm not very maternal myself. And it can be had at times ( I'm single mum now) but it is so rewarding.. I saw by daughters's note in her book 'thank god for mum' that has made me cry.. That is the most beautiful thing that has ever been said about me.. And you can travel, you can go to music festivals etc with kids. And you might learn so many new things about yourself as well..

I do not want to sound pushy or anything. I'm just sharing my experience. And my life thought me that friends, husbands, lovers.. They come and go.. Kids always stay.. Best of luck with whatever you decide to do smile

Eglute Fri 26-Jul-13 22:51:35

Taught me not thought me smile and also hard not had.. Sorry for my mistyping and maybe not perfect English. It's not my first language..

confused75 Fri 26-Jul-13 22:58:58

I just can't imagine going through with a pregnancy with this level of doubt, Im hoping my thoughts will settle somewhere.

It is reassuring to know I am not alone in having these thoughts. Although time is of the essence in this situation, thanks for the advice to give myself some time.

In answer to notsoyummymummy1, i guess I don't really ever think about that. I am quite shy/introvert by nature and I hate having to depend on people and I think this would be the same at the end of my life. I don't know, having a child is not a guarantee to having someone with you at the end.

So much to think about

chezchaos Fri 26-Jul-13 23:07:17

As others have said, hormones during pregnancy can be massively unsettling. I planned my very much wanted DC but still had serious doubts in the early weeks of pregnancy. Hope this weekend gives you and your DH the chance to consider whether this is something you really want.

Viviennemary Fri 26-Jul-13 23:11:21

Nobody can really advise you what the best decision is for you. Only you know that. All I can say is that in many years time do you think there will be regret that you chose this. A lot of people have doubts they will be able to cope with a baby and all the changes it brings. But muddle through somehow.

threefeethighandrising Fri 26-Jul-13 23:31:40

When making your decision, I think you need to recognise that you can't go back to not having got pregnant. Termination is not the same as "undoing" your pregnancy.

I have terminated a pregnancy (in very different circumstances to yours) and also have two DCs.

I had no doubt that terminating was the least bad option for me, but even so it fundamentally changed how I felt about myself as a person. Not everyone feels such guilt, and you may not. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, that is only your choice to make, but that you need to factor in that terminating is a head fuck for many. You can't go back to never having been pregnant.

Having said that I wouldn't change the choice I made. Is it the right thing for you? I can't say.

I expect if you have a child it's unlikely you'll regret it. People almost never do, once they meet their DCs. Is the child-free life you'd have, having never met your child a "better" one, so much so that it's worth terminating? I have no idea, only you can answer that, and even then there's no way of knowing for sure, either way.

I hope that's helpful.

BabiesAreLikeBuses Fri 26-Jul-13 23:35:08

I'd really recommend you get some counselling - you could call bpas for a starter. Either way this is going to be tough to deal with, you need to resolve how you feel pre decision. Up to 9 weeks it's a simple procedure so you do have time. I really think it's worth working out why you feel negative about it before you make any decisions as you'll have to cope with the decision forever and i know that that's not easy.

DistanceCall Fri 26-Jul-13 23:47:40

I don't think a child who is not actively wanted should be brought into the world. It doesn't sound like having a child was a strong desire for you.

If you don't want to have children, there is nothing wrong with that. And there is no shame in having an abortion.

DistanceCall Fri 26-Jul-13 23:49:26

And having a child because you don't want to be alone when you die is not a good enough reason. Childless people don't all die alone, you know - we do get to love and be loved by other people (other than our partners).

scarlettsmummy2 Fri 26-Jul-13 23:52:56

I would keep it if I was in your situation again, I have been there in the sense my first baby wasn't planned, I am not naturally maternal and I had a great job with the benefits of lots of disposable income, and it was the best decision I ever made. Yes, you do lose your freedom, however you just do different things. They may not be as glamorous or whatever, but equally rewarding in other ways.

MorrisZapp Sat 27-Jul-13 00:00:35

For many women, having a termination isn't a huge deal. I had one, because it was best for me at the time. I've forgotten it now.

These threads always lean towards encouraging women to see all the positives of motherhood and all the negatives of termination. That's fine, obviously that reflects the fact this is a forum largely for mothers.

But you know what you want. Personally, I think following through with an unwanted or very ambivalent pregnancy because things always work out in the end is a huge gamble.

I have a child now, my life has changed utterly, and if I knew then what I know now I would very likely have made different choices. You don't have to be a mother. You are allowed to just keep your nice life as it is, if you are a loving person then you will always get love back, hopefully on your death bed too.

MorrisZapp Sat 27-Jul-13 00:04:03

And what distance call said. Every child born should be much wanted. I don't know why we feel we should encourage reluctant parents to take the plunge.

craftycottontail Sat 27-Jul-13 00:12:54

I fell pregnant accidently too. Was also happily married, intending to have children some day but was quite happy without.

For me, my decision was made when I read about what had already happened in my body. Also I read about what would happen at the various stages a pregnancy could be terminated and decided I couldn't go through with it, not even as early as 5 weeks (when I found out). I have a history of depression and a guilty kind of personality - I doubt I would have coped with it mentally. You might read the same information and decide differently, but do find out everything before you make your final decision.

I agree with the poster who said they've never met a person who regretted having their child once they arrive. I don't regret for a minute having mine.

Whippetwarmer Sat 27-Jul-13 00:12:55

My first child was conceived when I was 22, in far from ideal circumstances. I was horrified and my gut feeling was to have an abortion, even though I'd always been opposed to it. But I thought it through and decided I couldn't go through with an abortion. I spent my whole pregnancy dreading the baby being born because of all the freedom I would lose. I went into labour and gave birth to a girl who I loved instantly, and is now a happy, bright 9 year old who is an amazing little person. I've been a single mum but I have never for a moment regretted having her.

Last year, I got pregnant and had an abortion. Very long story as to why but I felt backed into a corner and had no option. It fucked with my head and has opened up a whole can of worms in terms of questioning my own morality. I have been having counselling for the last 7 months because of it. The whole experience was just horrible. The effect on my relationship has been catastrophic too.

I guess it depends on how you feel about abortion. If you really think that you can go and do it and not feel bad, then do it if you feel it's the right thing. But my warning is that both decisions are long term, life long ones. The way I saw it when I was pregnant the first time was that I knew that an abortion was not a happy ending but having a baby might be, which is why I chose that option. Good luck whatever you decide.

MorrisZapp Sat 27-Jul-13 00:23:40

There's an amazing thread on here called how has parenting affected your mental health. It's about women who don't find motherhood to be joy filled and amazing all the time. In fact, we often find it an almighty pain in the arse. Many brave women on there have said that if they had their time again, they'd make different choices.

The reason nobody has met anybody who regrets parenthood is because it's not something society wants to hear. It is shaming. So it's not talked about openly.

I personally had PND which nearly killed me. I'm not alone, millions of women suffer with it every year. I'm probably going to be on anti depressant medication for many years now, although I'm no longer ill.

Babies bring joy to many. They also bring debt, marriage breakdown, loss of self, and the hardest work you'll ever do in your life.

DistanceCall Sat 27-Jul-13 00:32:27

It's extremely rare to find a woman who openly says that she regrets having children because that's something that would deeply hurt her children, and most women (even those who regret having had children) are not monsters and don't wish to hurt their children.

Again: every child deserves to be intensely wanted, preferably by both parents. If you're feeling so ambivalent about it, I think that's a strong sign you should take into account.

popupdrop Sat 27-Jul-13 00:41:34

I have had a termination in your situation. I already had a child from an earlier relationship, but in my current marriage I'd made a joint decision not to have any more dc as we enjoyed our lifestyle with a fairly independent teenager child. I knew from my first dc that we definitely would lose a lot of freedom and options if we'd continued with the pg, even though I'd been quite adventurous and travelled a fair bit with him. I only had a negative response to my own pg, but tbh I'd often thought hypothetically about what might happen in the case of a contraceptive failure and I always knew I'd choose a termination.

There is no shame in it, and no reason to justify it to anyone else. It wasn't a big deal to me, and for many women the only feeling is relief and I definitely didn't fundamentally change how I felt about myself - I've made a lot of life-changing decisions in my life and this really wasn't one of them! I just feel glad that we live in a country and society where these options are available, although it is a pity that so many people see it as shameful or regretful.

notanyanymore Sat 27-Jul-13 00:43:25

Me and dp were both scared shitless when we found out we were expecting dc3, we'd only just got our family back together. I know how twee this sounds but the feeling isn't, it likes she completes me/our family, everything.

I'll raise my hand and say I sometimes (even often) regret having children. I never particularly wanted kids, then suddenly got broody in my early 30s, had two girls who I do love dearly, don't get me wrong. I'm pleased they're in my life and and I'm very happy.

But: I think I would be happier childless and single. Not because I don't love my DH and my DDs - I really do. But I'm a solitary person at heart, selfish and rather intolerant of having my space invaded. I resent the time the DDs take up, the damage to my career that parenthood has caused, the money spent, the loss freedom to do what I want when I want... In a nutshell I feel I've lost too much control over myself.

I realise that if I hadn't found DH and had children, I'd probably be sad and lonely and want nothing more than a partner and kids... grass is always greener and all that.

What I truly wish is that I could rewind my life and start again, but with a truer understanding of myself and my overwhelming need for solitude.

So my advice to you is to look as deeply into yourself as you can. What do you want for yourself, really? Where do you want your life to go and can it go there if you have children. If you have to change tacks and make huge adjustments (and you will have to make huge adjustments), will there be resentment? What are you likely to regret the most if you do or don't have children?

Mostly, don't believe the people who say you'll never regret having children. People do, all the time. They just don't admit it.

MorrisZapp Sat 27-Jul-13 01:18:42

Feel I want to hug you for that wonderful, kind, sane post Annie. But I'll respect your personal space smile

Ah, now I do love a cuddle, Morris, and that's what kids are best at grin! I'd have no regrets at all about children if we could just sit on the sofa and cuddle all day.

It's the relentlessness of parenting. That's what kills me.

niceupthedance Sat 27-Jul-13 07:27:24

I'm with Morris and Annie. Not everyone is cut out for motherhood and you shouldn't feel abnormal if you aren't.

Just last night I was discussing with my own mother our experience of child-rearing, and the two main themes were 'boring' and 'hard'.

Good luck in your decision.

MadameLeBean Sat 27-Jul-13 07:44:06

The effect on your relationship and personal freedom is huge and that is not a temporary thing. I had my dd unplanned, young and I resented losing my independence for years. Now I'm more comfortable with it but the thought of having a baby with my partner terrifies me as now my dd is a bit older we have a little more independence. We still have hardly any "us" time between work, dd, friends (not even often) and chores. If you can afford help - a nanny or housekeeper - it might keep you sane. I do want a baby at some point but want to have support systems in place and not be stressing about my career. I dont think termination has to be emotionally devastating, everyone has different feelings about it, but as people have said up to 9 weeks is simple procedure. Good luck whatever you decide.

Viviennemary Sat 27-Jul-13 12:10:40

I agree that the answer for you is within you and how you would feel about the situation. I don't think I'm the very maternal type but I certainly am pleased I had children and would not want to be single and childless or married and childless. But what's right for one person isn't always right for the other person. I hope you come to the right decision for you.

JohFlow Sat 27-Jul-13 13:29:38

I can't really help you to make your decision. But I would hold off until you have full information on all of your options - including non-termination ones e.g adoption etc. Sometimes considering those you get a feel of whether you could/couldn't go through with them. Feeling negative about a pregnancy may change within the course of the next 8+ months; but choosing to terminate is irreversible. Some mothers who aren't particularly 'maternal' still provide solid upbringings for their children. It's not an easy decision and I think you have to go with what you think is the best course of action for you and your DH. Good Luck

flippinada Sat 27-Jul-13 14:37:08

Excellent, thoughtful posts from MorrisZapp and AnnieLobeseder - not that others aren't thoughtful, those ones just stand out for me.

Children do have a massive impact on your life; once you have them it will never be the same again.

StillSeekingSpike Sat 27-Jul-13 14:37:31

I got pregnant in my late 20s- and up until that point, would have thought I was ambivalent about having children, leaning towards wanting to have one.
I was surprised how much I hated being pregnant and how much I wanted it over with. I had a termination and never regretted it. I'm in my 40s now and regret things about my life- but not having children wouldn't be in the top 200.
As for 'nobody regretting having children'- if everyone becomes a natural parent the minute the babies born- where do all the fucked up adults come from??????
I work in child protection and can tell you I'd be out of a job if wanting a child was the same as having a child.

hermioneweasley Sat 27-Jul-13 14:41:37

OP, I am confused. Were you trying to get pregnant? You mention "wondering if it would happen for you" and it being "passive"

motherinferior Sat 27-Jul-13 14:49:45

It doesn't matter, surely, Hermione? The fact is that she is now pregnant - and there's nothing like a not-madly-planned pregnancy for bringing you smack up against the reality of how your life may now take a very, very different track.

I was a little older than you, and I decided to go through with it; and I would say that for me, that was the right decision. However, I say that now - that first baby (I had another two years later) is now 12. If you'd asked me eight years ago, I was fairly horrified by people actively planning to throw their lives into the unfulfilled exhausted chaos that I lived in then.

So I suppose I'm saying the same as Morris grin. You can have a perfectly wonderful life without kids. Probably much, much nicer than if you do have them, to be honest.

I was never maternal, and my pregnancy at 39 could not have happened at a worse time (mid divorce). I initially thought a termination was the only sensible option as I have always been pro-choice. I had such bad bleeding my GP suggested going for an early private scan to see whether a termination would be necessary. When I saw the heart beat something in me just fell in love with the baby. There is no way I could have terminated the little life that was hanging on in there when the rest of my world was falling apart.

My dd is now 4 months and is the very best ting that ever happened to me. The divorce never happened btw but that is an aside. I love motherhood, and I think having spent 39 years focussing on the downsides the upsides came as an unexpected surprise. Sometimes when I look at dd my blood runs a little cold at the thought she might never have been.

Go for a scan (a private one is about £90), and see how you feel. A termination cannot be undone. Motherhood isn't for everyone but it has amazing upsides, and as a slightly older mum you will have some advantages. I am a kinder, less selfish person than I was 15 years ago because life has rubbed the hard corners off me.

Don't rush into a decision. As you are late 30s this could be your only chance at motherhood. How would you feel if you terminated and then couldn't have another later? It's funny how we sometimes don't want things until life/nature closes the door.

Best of luck

Liskey Sat 27-Jul-13 15:38:28

Hi Confused - I'm in a very similar position to you at the moment though I do already have a DD. I've found that I'm unexpectedly pregnant and am trying to decide what to do for the best. I've been to BPAS who were very helpful and I have an appointment for an abortion but I'm still feeling very undecided.

My DD is now a wonderful person who I adore but I wouldn't say I'm naturally maternal and I found the first year incredibly hard.

You really have my sympathy as this is an incredibly hard decision to make.

My single sister and I have talked about this and we've both realised we are envious about aspects of the other's life. I envy her the freedon she has and she envies me having a DD and all the good bits she sees of her.

bragmatic Sat 27-Jul-13 16:43:14

No doubt your life changes dramatically. But it will be different in 10 years' time anyway. And 10 years after that. And so on. And I might get flamed for saying this, but a child didn't change my life that much. We still did weekends away, travelled, etc. We both still worked. Now the youngest is 6, I still feel I have freedom to do pretty much what I want. I just have to plan more. Though I'll grant you, the first year can be difficult. Or, incredibly easy, as it was with my first.

I'm not trying to talk you into or out of anything. I was an older mum (36 the first time). I don't know. You have your shit together by then, right? Well, for the most part anyway. My life changed. But it wasn't going to stay the same anyway. That's what life is. If you decide not to have the baby, you'll be trading one change for another. Only you can decide if that will be right for you, or not. Good luck.

WaitMonkey Sat 27-Jul-13 17:00:09

g

WaitMonkey Sat 27-Jul-13 17:01:29

This must be so difficult for you, hope you make the right decision whatever that may be for you and your dh.

rob99 Sat 27-Jul-13 17:11:34

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Notafixer Sat 27-Jul-13 17:20:15

Rob what if the unborn baby says yes? I'm pretty sure mine would. We're people pleasers in my family.

Or what if the theoretical conversation takes place with the child as a teenager. Because then it will hurl back "I didn't ask to be born".

Kernowgal Sat 27-Jul-13 17:32:00

Ugh, what a horrible post Rob99. Can I assume you are a pro-lifer?

Why should the OP feel guilty for having the freedom to travel and enjoy a child-free life? Granted it's not ideal to find herself pregnant, but despite what others say I'd think a negative reaction like that is one that should be listened to.

Better to terminate and then think carefully about how you feel, than to go through with a pregnancy and potentially resent your child. There are already too many stories on this board from people who felt they were at best an inconvenience to their parents.

rob99 Sat 27-Jul-13 17:33:51

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rob99 Sat 27-Jul-13 17:37:45

Kernowgal. I can't believe how glibly you make a comparison between the freedom to travel and the life of a human being.

I'd rather feel inconvenient to my parents than be dead.

5madthings Sat 27-Jul-13 17:46:32

Well and embryo/feutus doesn't feel/think anything so its a moot point.

Not all pregnancies are planned, contraception is not 100% . and women have the right to bodily autonomy. Unless you don't have sex there is always a chance of pregnancy, its far better to terminate a pregnancy than bring an unwanted child into the world. Or maybe rob is going to adopt all the unwanted children if they want women to continue with an unwanted pregnancy?

Op I hope you reach a choice you are happy with, I would listen to your gut feeling.

motherinferior Sat 27-Jul-13 17:47:36

I am deeply impressed by people whose lives didn't change when they had kids. I found mine did, and mainly for the worse in terms of money, freedom and the quality of the films I saw.

Mumsyblouse Sat 27-Jul-13 17:58:09

I do think it's telling though that you were not trying to prevent a pregnancy- you say you would have tried harder to prevent it if you'd known how negative you would feel which makes me think you were either trying or leaving it to fate. It is not unusual to have a real panic when you get pregnant and have both positive and negative feelings, or even overwhelmingly negative ones, I cried buckets and really panicked those first few weeks feeling incredibly trapped even though I had chosen to get pregnant. It didn't make sense, but for me, going ahead was something I had already decided to do, and, many years later, I don't know what I was panicking about, but it wasn't this happy time I had expected.

Good luck with making your decision, my experience may not be at all similar to yours, and I've known people make both decisions when in this situation and in both cases they are happy with them.

ANormalOne Sat 27-Jul-13 18:01:27

First of all, ignore rob66they're not here to help, they're here to guilt trip you into making choices they agree with.

It's your decision, and if you choose to include your husband his too, but you have the final say. Do not let anyone guilt trip you into doing something you don't want to do, whether that be abortion, adoption or continuing the pregnancy.

People are saying that they've never met a woman who has regretted keeping a child, but there are women who do, just search it on google, that is no life for a child to lead and there are plenty of threads on here about distant parents. As far as I am concerned, I'd rather regret not having children.

I really, really recommend you contact Marie Stopes, their number is 0845 300 8090 and they are open 24/7, they offer, pressure free, support to women struggling over the decision to abort or continue a pregnancy, they will give you the facts you need to know.

Speaks to your husband, speak them and think long and hard about what you want - I hope everything works out well for you OP.

Mumsyblouse Sat 27-Jul-13 18:02:44

Motherinferior- how old are your children? I have not found my life has changed unalterably, the first few years yes, but now my children are late primary age and I compare my life to those of my friends who chose not to have children, we are all similar, have professional jobs, the odd holiday, money worries at times, love meeting up with old friends. We get together every few years and our lives aren't much different, we are all mid-forties. Not sure what they are doing with their 'freedom' but it doesn't seem completely different than what we do, perhaps more opportunities to go to the cinema, but once your children are in their teens, there's not even a babysitting issue.

I think the one thing that can utterly change everything is if you have a child who has a disability which affects your choices in this regard.

motherinferior Sat 27-Jul-13 18:07:59

Mine are 10 and 12. I just miss having an untrammelled life in which I went to the cinema a couple of times a week and didn't have to clutter my head with other people's stuff. Or worry about education. I have two degrees already, dammit, I don't need to do tables practice again. I don't want to go to the park, not voluntarily. Left to my own devices I would not watch Ice Age 4. These things do not, in the main, enhance the quality of my day to day life and they are the enduring stuff of parenting.

Alconleigh Sat 27-Jul-13 18:08:42

Ignore Rob99. I imagine women doing anything other than sacrificing themselves entirely gets him frothing.

treacleturkey Sat 27-Jul-13 18:09:33

Annie, I could have written your post!

I dont really regret having my dc but sometimes i have leaned towards feeling that way, and both my relationships with my dc's fathers fell apart because i resented my personal space being taken away from me.

motherinferior Sat 27-Jul-13 18:09:36

I'd rather blow the money we've spent on a sedate gite in Northern France and bog off to India on my own. These longings have not left me.

treacleturkey Sat 27-Jul-13 18:10:52

IGNORE ROB99 please!!! Obviously has a heart of stone.

confused75 Sat 27-Jul-13 18:12:23

thanks again everyone. yes we were leaving things to fate and it my bad reaction to the positive test which is raising this question.

I do understand Rob's reaction too and expected it, his points are all part of my dilemma too.

It is very reassuring to know that women do get through these feelings and that maternal feeling I expected to feel doesn't always happen and doesn't even magically appear when the baby is born either.

My husband is supportive of me but is very much playing devils advocate rather than having strong feelings either way. I live in a place where abortion is not available so i would have to travel so any decision i make won't be flippant or taken likely. i can see from my op that people would think i am being flippant about it and it is lifestyle choice. I just can't articulate how i feel about the loss of me rather than the joy of a baby.

Mumsyblouse Sat 27-Jul-13 18:14:58

Motherinferior yes, all this is true, I guess as mine have got older, I don't feel obliged to watch what they are watching and they are very independent (all that benign neglect has paid off) but of course there is that constant having to think about others (only a few years and you can leave them at home though). I enjoy it though (probably not rational), one man's meat and all that. That's why this is a very personal decision.

treacleturkey Sat 27-Jul-13 18:20:43

I can totally understand your sense of loss of self, and wish i had considered this properly before i got pg at 19! it is a lot to think about and dont let anyone on here push you into keeping something youre not sure you can deal with.....

hermioneweasley Sat 27-Jul-13 18:25:07

You live In a country where abortion is not available, but you decided to test whether you wanted to start a family by being relaxed about contraception? That seems to be a huge gamble, I hope you're not as cavalier about everything.

As other posters have said, having kids changes your live irrevocably, most of it not for the better. I wouldn't change what we did, but I am secondary care giver. Coukd absolutely not be primary or SAHM.

Twirlyhot Sat 27-Jul-13 18:25:56

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

I just wanted to say the "oh Jesus holy crap my life is over" reaction to pregnancy can happen even if you were desperate to get upduffed (as I was) and if you end up very happy to be a mum. It's just an appreciation of how much your life is about to change. I don't envy you a very tough decision but I wouldn't want you to think reacting that way means you're not cut out for parenthood...

Twirlyhot Sat 27-Jul-13 18:29:55

She said 'more careful'. That could mean belt (pill) and braces (condom) rather than just one, and is a bit irrelevant now. Also, Ireland would count as one of those countries. Also, horse, stable door, bolted.

crossparsley Sat 27-Jul-13 18:31:56

i can see from my op that people would think i am being flippant about it and it is lifestyle choice.

Anyone who thinks that about you is morally, emotionally and imaginatively challenged. Please don't factor in what [x] would think about you - it's your life, and your marriage, and he/she would or would not be your child. Just focus on that and you've got a good chance of making a choice that turns out well for you in the end. You sound thoughtful and responsible, so trust yourself.

As for the "deathbed-side" stuff - that has to be the weakest argument for having a baby ever. (a) it's hugely selfish - children are people, not assets to be drawn down when you're old; (b) I will not be at my mother's, unless by co-incidence I am in the same city and she can remember my name (not dementia, she calls me and DSis by her fecking cats' names and has their photos on the mantelpiece) so there's no guarantee.

Mumsyblouse Sat 27-Jul-13 18:32:06

I can just relate to the overwhelming negativity and wanted to throw it out there that it doesn't always translate into not enjoying motherhood, but it's also true that motherhood does change your identity and your freedom and for some, that's not for the better. It is also very difficult in the first couple of years and easy to feel you have been lost. I don't feel like that now and have a very similar lifestyle to my friends who don't have children, as I am quite career oriented and still go away to see friends/have quite a large amount of independence. But this is a very personal thing.

Good luck with your decision.

Snazzyenjoyingsummer Sat 27-Jul-13 18:33:52

From what you say, it doesn't sound as if either you or your DH have ever been fully certain that you want a child. How did you make the decision to try to get pregnant? (or at least not to try and prevent it, which is the same thing whether you realised it or not)

Practical issues: would you have family to help with the load? Can you afford full-time childcare? I am happy being a parent who gets to work full-time (love my career and find it very fulfilling) and I think if I'd had to stay at home I would have found it a lot harder.

Mumsyblouse Sat 27-Jul-13 18:35:18

longtalljosie that's what I was getting at, I cried for days when I found out and not in a good way and thought my life was over. It wasn't and I love having children. This doesn't mean the Op is having this reaction, though, just that there are a range of reasons why you might feel 'oh my god' when you see you are pregnant.

confused75 Sat 27-Jul-13 18:51:36

I live in northren ireland which although is part of UK, does not allow abortion.

dadditlass Sat 27-Jul-13 18:53:26

When I fell pregnant with my dd I was shocked by the way I felt, We hadn't been trying but we hadn't been trying very hard to prevent it either. I had always wanted children but from the moment I found out I was devastated. I can remember feeling utter despair, I knew a termination wasn't for me even though I felt nothing for the baby. Dd was born and I stayed indifferent, I looked after her and went through the motions but there was no connection until she was 7 weeks old , it wasn't a lightning bolt moment but slowly I grew to like her and then love her, she is 10 now and It's not always been easy but I would die for her and my other two dc's. I think that because dh and I had a solid relationship we managed to get through but it was tough going for a while. I am very happy with my lot and I can't imagine my life now without kids.

Absolutely mumsy. I remember standing in Borders looking at pregnancy books thinking fuuccckkkk! and DH was saying "what is the matter with you! Last month you were in tears because you weren't pregnant!"

ProphetOfDoom Sat 27-Jul-13 18:54:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

5madthings Sat 27-Jul-13 19:43:42

I thoight in northern ireland the marie stopes clinics had started providing abortion up to 8-9wks, with tge tablet? It was on another thread.

ChippingInHopHopHop Sat 27-Jul-13 20:07:47

I think you are having a fairly normal 'freak out' smile - the very same one many who were trying to have a baby have. Lots of women who have gone as far as having IVF have had the same reaction. Having a baby does change who you are... it just does, it has to, you have to start putting someone else first and thinking for them too. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing or that your life can't be similar to how it is now after the first few years... it may even be better.

I know it might not as well and motherhood isn't for everyone, but surely if you felt that way you wouldn't have been 'seeing what happened'? Don't you think you would have been 'avoiding getting pregnant' at all costs if you knew you didn't want a baby? It just seems to me that it was something you were 'open to' but that your life wouldn't have been unbearable if you didn't have a child... and that it has made you panic now that it has actually happened, which is a pretty normal response!

Queenmarigold Sat 27-Jul-13 20:14:18

Please don't. You will honestly love that baby more than life itself from the moment you feel it move. You will adapt and change and your life will be enriched.
Please don't pass up the opportunity for a different but happier life for you all.

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Sat 27-Jul-13 20:19:02

I don't have masses to add, but just wanted to say good luck with your decision. and to ignore those with an agenda- be it anti abortion or any other. This is your decision and not theirs.

Mumsyblouse Sat 27-Jul-13 20:19:55

Queen that's your experience but clearly not that of lots of people on this thread. I don't think it's good to say you will have a happier life or a more enriched one, it's not clear if the OP will or won't. I do, having had children, but not everyone does.

Yes chipping it is a mystery why so many people freak out when they were trying for a baby or seeing what happened, I felt like the only one! Everyone kept saying 'you must be sooo excited' and I used to think 'no I'm thinking my life is over'. It was a very negative grief for my old life. Weird. But the difference is that after a couple of weeks it did wear off and I very much did want to continue to have a baby, I'm sure for some people this doesn't wear off because basically they don't.

treacleturkey Sat 27-Jul-13 20:23:57

Queen, please dont ask someone to keep a baby just because it worked ok for you.

Figgygal Sat 27-Jul-13 20:28:04

Ignore rob anyone who comes out with such bollocks is not worth considering.

GettingStrong Sat 27-Jul-13 20:38:47

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

thegreylady Sat 27-Jul-13 20:49:22

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Twattergy Sat 27-Jul-13 20:54:20

If you have ever envisaged yourself having children, then this is your chance. If you've never thought its something you must experience in life, then there is no need to continue. I felt quite negative in first trimester despite wanting to get pregnant. However I knew that the reason I'd done it was that I knew in life I wanted to experience bring a mother and creating a family. If you see yourself being a parent one day then stick with it, there is never a convenient time to have a baby, so take this chance. If you really value your freedom though kids are not for you. I find loss of independence very challenging despite adoring my little boy.

Snazzyenjoyingsummer Sat 27-Jul-13 21:05:00

I am not sure it's that helpful for your husband to play devil's advocate - this is a situation where you both need to be very honest to try and find the best solution for you both, and not be blindsided later by 'But I never wanted to have the baby/not have the baby!' conversations.

I made this point earlier but the presence of practical help in your lives, or the means to buy it, is more important than it might seem. For all you or we say about it, you can't predict what your feelings of love might be for the baby - of course hopefully you would instantly love it completely but life doesn't always work out that way. But for many women (and men, but more often women) what makes the crucial difference can be the opportunity to go back to work and have 'adult' time during the day, to keep the career they love and have worked to establish, to be able to take their DC to stay at grandma's for a week or long weekend while they and their partner travel in the way they always used to love (well, maybe not exactly the way, but something a bit like it...) These things can make the difference in thinking that you are coping, that you haven't completely lost your sense of the person you 'used' to be, and that ultimately it may be hard but it is overall worthwhile.

PessimisticMissPiggy Sat 27-Jul-13 21:09:30

I didn't want DCs. I had gynae issues and became pregnant. I was terrified. Very negative reaction as you've had OP and thought about not going through with it. Then I lost the pg. I was relieved because it wasn't planned but my heart ached for the lost pg.

I soon found that I wanted to have a DC and began to see that the negativity was about not wanting life to change in a direction I didn't have control over. A few years later we made an active choice to have one DC and it's the best thing we ever did.

Don't make a decision about your future choices, based on this not being the right time for you now.

For us, life isn't restricted; it's just different. We travel but don't hang out in cool bars, instead we see the early morning sun come up when we wake rather than on the way home! We have less material things but much more quality memories and fun. My career has taken a different direction but I'm happy with that (safer options for job security rather than risk taking).

Good luck OP. Your body, your choice.

DizzyPurple Sat 27-Jul-13 21:14:54

Think very very carefully about your decision. Being a parent isn't always easy and of course changes your life massively. However it also brings the most amazing rewards. Most things you do now can be done with children in tow, holidays etc.
The culture these days is that abortion is there so just do it. But like others have said, you weren't seemingly fighting this option. A child has been given to you, it sounds as though you are in an excellent position to look after it and you have a supportive partner. You have the chance to give this child and yourselves many great opportunities and experiences.
Good luck.

I would just echo the comments made by some posters that even planned, longed for pregnancy can lead to an early outbreak of "oh fuck, what the hell have I done"? I regret elements of my pre-child life, but I have never experienced an intensity of love like I had for my DD when she finally emerged.

You are obviously doing your best to make a careful and considered decision, my point to add to your thinking would be don't assume the way you feel now about your pregnancy would be the way you feel further down the line.

Shrugged Sat 27-Jul-13 22:17:58

Confused, ignore the holier-than-thou posts of Rob and Greylady. Even if you were cavalier about contraception, you sound as if you are employing all possible resources to make a considered decision, and you have my full sympathy. You've had a lot of thoughtful advice.

I would agree with whoever said you may feel much more positive about this should you choose to continue the pregnancy. I planned my baby, born when I was almost 40, and even then was initially surprised by how panicked and conflicted I felt. My other point would be that you don't have to be a 'maternal type' to be a good mother, so don't dismiss yourself as a poor candidate for having a child because you aren't broody, and are considering aborting. I am not anything approaching a maternal type, I am naturally solitary, self-involved and career-focused, but having my son has brought me enormous joy.

Having said that, I understand those who regret having children.

Best wishes to you as you make your decision.

Silver15 Sat 27-Jul-13 22:55:26

No one can make the decision for you. You have asked for people's opinions that includes Rob and Greylady.

I have a wonderful 4 month old girl who I wouldn't change for the world and could never, ever imagine myself regretting.

I have always been a fairly maternal person but never thought I could have children, felt my fertility was pretty much non existent. I wasn't sure about the doability of me having a baby too, as I am VI and my partner is completely blind.

But we work at it, because we want to.

The thing is though most people don't magically become maternal if they never were and most people who are maternal rarely become less so from having a baby. This isn't always the case.

I hate the thought of a foetus being terminated but I also hate the thought of a child not being wanted and the child picking up on the resentment from the parents for the rest of their life. I know which one ultimately has to be the best decision, although it breaks my heart to say it.

In a way you sound like you really do not want this child, because you want to live the life you currently are living and that's very understandable. But at the same time I think that if you weren't being as careful and the fact you didn't make an immediate decision tells me there is something there that is niggling at you. Maybe it's the curiosity of what it would be like, perhaps it's how you feel your partner would approach this if it was solely his choice or perhaps it's something else completely.

Chat it through with one of the helplines some of the posters above have mentioned would be my advice. They can recommend what stages you can terminate at, how you feel emotionally and how this may impact on your decision making, perhaps how you felt pre pregnancy and measure that up to how you feel now and what you feel having a life with a child would be like. If you here how it might be it might help sway you either way.

I wish you the best of luck though in whatever decision you make. It's never an easy decision and it always ends up losing in some way. Whether it be the pregnancy, your morality (if that is how you feel individually if it makes you feel bad) or merely an opportunity you could've taken up.

Oh and also bare in mind though that there may not be another opportunity; perhaps if you did terminate and then realised you did want the baby, you might not be able to get pregnant again. Sorry to play DA myself, but it is a possibility.

But then there is the possibility that you have the child and never really bond with it. It's very hard and you have to look at it from every single angle. But you seem to be thinking really hard and not being blasé about it, which is the most important thing.

Nobody can blame someone for their decision if it's thought out and seems like the best thing for those involved.

RaRaZ Sun 28-Jul-13 13:04:08

Haven't had time to read all of this, so my sincere apologies if I've missed anything important. But I just wanted to say please be very very careful.... I had a termination earlier this year at 14 and a half weeks because I was pushed into it and made to think it was impossible for me to have the baby. I had it that late because DP and I couldn't decide what to do and spent weeks panicking. It was the most horrific thing I've ever been through (trust me, they don't tell you what's going to happen to you even when you ask) and I've regretted it every day since. I've been depressed, hopeless, wanted to kill myself, spent hours crying my eyes out....and I don't think I'll ever get over it. It was totally the wrong decision. DP and I are now desperately ttc and I'm finding it very very hard. I'm not saying that you're the same as me....but I didn't think I could get pg before I did, and wasn't even sure I wanted kids. Things change. Hope you're ok flowers. Whoever said that having a termination isn't the same as undoing the pg couldn't be more right. I wish I'd known that before I had mine.

Zara1984 Sun 28-Jul-13 13:27:44

OP given that you are in Northern Ireland and you have a 9 week limit on accessing a chemical abortion (ie by pills, not needing to travel) you might want to have a chat to Marie Stopes in Belfast - perhaps they could help you and your DP with counselling as to what you think the best decision for you guys is?

If you are under 9 weeks pregnant you won't have to travel out of NI for an abortion.

Linky

Nobody else can make your decision for you, obviously. I know women who are very glad they had abortions and women who are very sad that they had them - in a range of different situations. The only advice I could offer you (as a previously non-maternal, but now very very happy mum) is to go with the gut decision that you and your DP can live with.

rob99 Sun 28-Jul-13 13:34:00

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Alconleigh Sun 28-Jul-13 13:41:44

Snort. That should be MN's new slogan, "by Lesbians, feminists and men haters, for Lesbians, feminists, and men haters". That'd give Liz Jones something to really get her teeth into.

rob99 Sun 28-Jul-13 13:43:17

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arequipa Sun 28-Jul-13 13:43:52

Although I have a child many of my friends do not and have never wanted to - none of them are freaks of nature! There is a lot to lose about your life style and most of all, loss in the relationship with your partner as it completely changes the dynamic when a child is around. And that goes on for years.It is a hard choice, once born many parents love their children like no other love they have felt. But it is only theoretical at present, a few cells in the lining of your womb.

Alconleigh Sun 28-Jul-13 13:48:46

Ssshh now, grown ups are talking. Back to your World of Warcraft and wank mags.
Not you, Arequipa, in case there was any doubt there.

rob99 Sun 28-Jul-13 13:52:48

Grown ups wouldn't kill a potential life because it might interfere with next years trip to Peru.

For ladies, there is an awful lot of choice language on here.blush

ChippingInHopHopHop Sun 28-Jul-13 13:54:44

Rob - if you had bothered to read the thread properly you would have read that the OP was open to the idea of having children and the way she feels now has come as a complete surprise to her. Thankfully, our society permits women to change their mind and access terminations because it accepts that first & foremost it is our body.

What about her DH? Why is all your anger aimed at the woman? He was there too - it took both of them to make this baby and he is no more sure about what he wants than she is.

rob99

It's a great Forum that deletes a post of mine that's attempting to save the life of a child that's been conceived through no fault of it's own and doesn't have any say in it's chance of life and yet a post that tells me to go and fuck myself is acceptable.

We've deleted that post as we don't allow personal attacks. - we're a post-moderated forum and hadn't seen it.

We can understand that abortion is a topic which raises emotional responses but would ask you Rob, to please have a look at our talk guidelines
Thanks
MNHQ

ChippingInHopHopHop Sun 28-Jul-13 13:57:10

What brings you to MN Rob?

pinkyredrose Sun 28-Jul-13 13:58:43

rob99 how many children do you have? Do you use contraception or do you abstain from sex altogether?

Kernowgal Sun 28-Jul-13 13:59:58

Well why continue to read if it offends you so much, Rob99? Methinks the 'gentleman' doth protest too much and rather enjoys his righteous indignation.

rob99 Sun 28-Jul-13 14:09:59

I'm not angry. I'm eating a Danish and watching "you've got mail".

It's Ok if someone tells me to go and f* myself too, but I couldn't see the logic in deleting my post.

The lady has the last word with a termination and contraception and I'm not aiming anything at her. There is a life growing inside her and it's wrong on any level to kill that life....in my opinion, albeit not a very popular opinion. For me, denying that poor child the opportunity of life is far far worse than any inconvenience to it's mum and dad's life/finances/holidays or whatever.

I'm a bit confused when I've read the post saying "it's only a bunch of cells, it wont feel any pain...." I'd expect a dumb ass bloke to say something like that, not a woman. Why would you say something like that ?

rob99 Sun 28-Jul-13 14:18:36

Hello. I have two grown up daughters. Had a vasectomy 17 years ago. My wife wants another child and I want whatever she wants so I had a vasectomy reversal 8 months ago so at the minute I'm not using contraception and I'm not abstaining.

Kernowgal. Just because my opinion differs from the majority doesn't mean it's not valid does it?

pinkyredrose Sun 28-Jul-13 14:24:42

rob99 you're trying for a child that you don't actively want?

ChippingInHopHopHop Sun 28-Jul-13 14:24:43

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dufflefluffle Sun 28-Jul-13 14:29:42

I don't believe in doing anything that goes against your gut instinct or that makes you unhappy - and this has led to some terrible decisions on my part (I would guess my gut instict isn't al that great!) but I still go by it. Only you can know and I think you're in a terrible predicament so wish you strength in dealing with it. I wish you that whatever conclusion you do come to that you remember always that it was the right decision for this moment in time.

rob99 Sun 28-Jul-13 14:38:04

I do want another child, because I know how happy it would make my wife and I know I would love the child although I'm scared to death cos I'm not the young kid with all the energy and vigour I had in my early twenties first time round.

I'm not on a wind up, far from it. I'm a bit of a tit most of the time and my wife would testify to that but not even I would enter a debate about the life of a baby as a wind-up.

MN ? maybe we can glean something about conceiving, IVF or whatever.

Snazzyenjoyingsummer Sun 28-Jul-13 15:10:26

Ah, so you're seeking the advice and guidance of 'self-centred murderers?' Interesting. So glad we have some redeeming qualities. hmm

Figgygal Sun 28-Jul-13 15:16:48

Er rob if you are confused that its only a group of cells at 5 weeks maybe you need to educate yourself on the gestational process as at 5 weeks it is indeed just a group of cells it is by no means at this stage a baby or a baby's life we are talking about here.

RaRaZ Sun 28-Jul-13 15:22:24

Quite, Snazzy. I'm thrilled to hear that making the worst decision of my life - but for what seemed like the best reasons at the time - makes me a self-centred murderer. Cheers for that Rob hmm. I could understand your point if the OP - or any of us - were advocating having the baby and then leaving it to die of exposure or something, but given the OP is considering early termination, I think your posts are vile, and I hope the don't affect the OP's decision.

rob99 Sun 28-Jul-13 15:25:27

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AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Sun 28-Jul-13 15:35:42

I think we need a version of Godwin's law for any person who uses the term 'keep your legs shut' on a debate about abortion.

Anyway, this wasn't a debate about abortion. It was one woman trying to make a difficult choice. I think maybe we all need to leave our little friend alone. He's made his point that he's anti abortion. Well well done him. It has naff all to do with the very personal decision one woman is having to make and I think it's unfair to allow him to derail her thread with his grossly emotive 'argument'.

rob99 Sun 28-Jul-13 15:35:49

RaRaz..... Rightly or wrongly, I look at the situation from the innocent child in the womb. I'm sorry about that remark by the way, I got a bit carried away and in hindsight I shouldn't have said it and I'm sorry for offence caused.

I probably sound stupid when I say that nothing you will ever do, no job, no holiday, no experience will top that of giving birth and holding your baby for the first time. When they first smile or say mummy or daddy or you get their first report card, nothing on earth will top those experiences. It's hard, every day is a slog sometimes and the pain of seeing your heart walking around outside of your body can be agonising when they are hurt or in pain but every bit is memorable and worth it.

Rob, we are absolutely not about censoring debate at MN but would ask that if thats something you'd like to discuss, perhaps you can start your own thread?
Thanks

5madthings Sun 28-Jul-13 15:44:36

Its not a child.

And its all too easy for a man to say not to have an abortion when its not them that has to be pregnant or give birth with the risks that entails.

And as for 'keep your legs shut'... How about men kerping their dick in their pants permanently if they dont want women having abortions.

Ultimately not your body, not your choice.

Do you think 'the innocent child' that is a product of rape shouldnt be aborted as well rob ...

rob99 Sun 28-Jul-13 15:56:33

My opinion is I don't think the OP should abort her baby. The scenario of rape isn't relevant here but as it happens, in that situation, as innocent as that unborn child is, I would fully support the woman's decision to abort the unborn child, or not.

I do understand it's not my body and not my choice.

Snazzyenjoyingsummer Sun 28-Jul-13 16:00:09

So how self-centred is it to come onto an internet forum, call the users 'murderers' and other names, but expect them (and the forum) to help you out with your own problems? On a scale of one to ten?

Anyway, Amanda is right. This is a thread started by one person to debate the pros and cons of their own decision.

OP, did you have much discussion about those pros and cons with your DH before this happened? Had you thought about practicalities like how your careers will be affected and so on? You need to have a clearer view of what your lives would be like if you had a child. It's not a bed of roses but neither is it inevitably all sacrifices and the loss of self you fear.

Snazzyenjoyingsummer Sun 28-Jul-13 16:00:44

rob99 apology appreciated.

Snazzyenjoyingsummer Sun 28-Jul-13 16:01:31

And rob99 I would look in the Conception and Infertility sections for the kind of information relevant to your own situation.

Pinupgirl Sun 28-Jul-13 16:08:35

I am bit puzzled as to why you decided to share this problem on a forum specifically for parents?

But anyway-its your choice to make. Ask yourself how you would feel if you had an abortion and were never able to fall pregnant again? How would you feel?-devastated or would you accept it? There's your answer.

5madthings Sun 28-Jul-13 16:10:49

So the embryo/feutus is only an innocent child entitled to life if it wasnt concieved via rape... Kind of crap argument there. I would have more respect for your views rob if you were at least consistent.

Anyway this is not the place for a debate on abortion. I hope the op manages to make a decision that she is happy with.

I do agree that the shock of realising you are really preg can make you panic so the op will need to think if its panic/shock or a deaper realisation that she really doesnt want a child, only she can know and make that choice and i wish her all the best, whatever her choice xxx

rob99 Sun 28-Jul-13 16:29:20

Given the circumstances (rape). I said I would fully support the woman's choice either way. I understand that you don't like my views so I can see why you'd choose to try and discredit my argument with a specific and unpleasant scenario like a pregnancy as a result of rape. Well done.

welshharpy Sun 28-Jul-13 16:37:07

Op, no you are no freak of nature! Lots of women freak out finding out they are pregnant and it is very, very scary. It is good that you have your partner to help you deal with this and support you in whatever decision you BOTH make. As others have mentioned previously give Marie Stopes a call and reach out for advice and information before you decide.
Practically speaking kids will completely change you both and your relationship but if you are in a strong partnership then you should cope and grow as a family unit. Be warned though, babies and kids can be hard, tiring, tedious and when you have jobs etc aswell it can be overwhelming at times.
On a personal note I have always thought of myself as quite a selfish person and will readily admit it. Me and hubbie have a 10yr old who is our absolute joy but I would be lying if I said I did not yearn for time just as a couple like we used to be and if asked if I would do this all again I am not totally sure I would.
Since dc came along every single aspect of our lives has changed even down to little things like no more spontaneous sex, leisurely days out shopping, impromptu visits to cinema, dirty weekends away, odd evening at the pub etc etc but we are actively trying to change that. Years of kids tv, films, and kiddie friendly holidays have made life very tedious and I am no longer willing to put up with it. Unfortunately we both have families that will not help out with childcare at all so any time together as a couple has to be planned beforeheand and is very rare but getting better.
Do you both have family near to you that would help with childcare and the inevitable school runs? If so that helps enormously and give you both some well-earned couple alone time as you would both need it! Good luck with whatever you both decide! x

Maryz Sun 28-Jul-13 16:46:42

confused, have you sat your dh down and asked him what he really wants?

Not what he thinks you want, or whether he will support you in what you decide, but what he would do if you either (a) definitely wanted to have the baby or (b) definitely wanted to have an abortion.

Because it is possible that if he felt strongly either way, it might influence your decision one way or another.

I for one absolutely support any woman's choice to do as she wants in a situation like this, but it doesn't sound to me as though you are sure. The one situation you don't want to be in is where you go ahead with an abortion (or indeed go ahead with the pregnancy) because you think you probably don't/do want children, you think your dh is probably ok with this, and then realise in a few years' time (possibly mid-argument) that his feelings are actually much stronger one way or the other than he is admitting now.

I think if you are as ambivalent as you sound, you need to try to get him to be very honest - with himself as well as you - so that you can make a decision that you are both sure is right for you both.

I hope you have had a chance to speak to your partner OP and had a real heart to heart about what you feel.

I hope you are feeling OK.

Best wishes smile

StillSeekingSpike Sun 28-Jul-13 17:14:08

'trust me, they don't tell you what's going to happen to you even when you ask'

ER- in my situation 'they' did. the nurses and medical staff was absolutely lovely and very supportive. And I only had a local anaesthetic. Believe me, I have had much much worse operations. Pain/ discomfort wise- it was about like getting a tooth filled.

treacleturkey Sun 28-Jul-13 17:31:52

Madame - you mentioned that nothing can top holding your baby in your arms for the very first time - I have to disagree; with the birth of both of my dc I was so drugged up and ill that with my firswt birth I proceeded to throw up all over the midwife and barely rememember holding my first dc.

The second time again, felt so exhausted/drugged (also had flu, followed by 26hr labour) that i dont even remember holding ds before we got home. Sad but true . sad

I dont think we should be glamming up the birth process or making it seem all nostalgic/magical to the poor OP, when sometimes it doesnt happen that way.

RaRaZ Sun 28-Jul-13 17:36:37

You were extremely lucky then, Spike - in my case, I had to fight to get the answers to the simplest question in two different hospitals and at BPAS; it was a bloody nightmare and the most horrific thing I've ever been through. Tbf, I reacted badly and managed to have three of the 'extremely unlikely' side effects one after the other, so I certainly didn't have an easy run of it. I think you were lucky to have so little pain (or I assume that's what you mean as I've never had a tooth filled) - there was a hell of a lot of loud crying going on on the ward I was on. Personally, I was for nearly 48 hours, had to be put on a drip containing a cocktail of drugs overnight, and was given morphine to cope with the termination. When they eventually discharged me, I was still so weak I could barely walk. For the fortnight after, I was back in hospital every 2-3 days and was re-admitted twice in the month after the termination, including once for a D&C.

RaRaZ Sun 28-Jul-13 17:38:12

Also, I totally agree with Mary - sometimes your DP can be so desperate to support you and make things easier for you that he doesn't tell you his true feelings. You need to have a good, honest talk. Good luck.

Alconleigh Sun 28-Jul-13 17:45:40

I found the procedure fine as well, although was only at 10 weeks and they used a general. The hospital staff were fairly brusque, but that's often true. I find it irritating that women are only "allowed" to have had a termination if they also say they suffered greatly and it haunts them to this day (this isn't aimed at you RaRaZ, you sound like you had a terrible time, just a point about the discourse around this subject).
I was 23, in my first job in London, shagging someone who I wasn't in a relationship with. Having that child would have been a disaster. So I didn't. And it's ok for you to make the same decision op, if that's what you want.

treacleturkey Sun 28-Jul-13 17:48:48

Agree with Alconleigh

rob99 Sun 28-Jul-13 17:49:07

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

rob99 - get a grip.

I had an abortion six weeks ago. happily married, two dc. Possibility of wanting a third. Timing so far off the mark though that the idea was eventually after more soul searching untenable.

I felt that I had to chose dh and the dds and not 'bet' on a third dc who was at that point a cluster of cells under a cm big. i could not risk anything about my current situation being challenged.

The procedure itself physically was ok, emotionally tricky as I was in a catholic country and religious doctors and nurses are immoral it would seem.

Emotionally afterwards has been very hard, as is to be expected I guess. A lot of self examination. Ultimately though I made the decision I did and that is that.

Noone can tell you what the right answer is. There is no right answer, either way will be ok.

rob99 Sun 28-Jul-13 17:56:40

I have a grip....we live in a throwaway society, why should a potential life be any different......

In your opinion, in your life. This is unapplicable and quite frankly of no worth at all to anyone one this thread who has faced that situation and made that decision.

Gerryweather Sun 28-Jul-13 18:02:07

I was in your position and took the action you are considering and deeply regret it. After the abortion all the fears and negativity about being pg disappeared and I realised they had been hormonal. And I had been v. V. Negative. You should consider if this may be the case for you. I feel horror and guilt and regret every day 18 months later.

rob99 Sun 28-Jul-13 18:04:04

It might be of worth to someone on this thread who teetering on the brink of making a decision to abort their baby.....unless I've completely misunderstood in which case I apologise.

Snazzyenjoyingsummer Sun 28-Jul-13 18:04:06

Rob you mentioned in an earlier post that you'd had a vasectomy. Didn't you feel bad about all the 'potential life' you were throwing away? Surely that action of yours was symptomatic of a 'throwaway' society in which you wished to have your way and not be inconvenienced?

Gerryweather Sun 28-Jul-13 18:06:01

I should add I was lucky enough to get pg again and now have a ds who is v hard work but whom I love immensely. I don't think I realised before that having brings more love into your life and that is what life is about really.

Snazzyenjoyingsummer Sun 28-Jul-13 18:08:22

Rob, please stop making inflammatory remarks and then retreating behind 'oh, I must have misunderstood, I do apologise'. After the first couple of times it becomes clear that you are stirring and then retreating when challenged. Whatever the motive is, it doesn't seem genuinely helpful to me.

Alconleigh Sun 28-Jul-13 18:10:25

I didn't abort a child. Fairly sure that's not possible.

rob99 Sun 28-Jul-13 18:11:02

The reason I had a vasectomy was that we'd had two children and we didn't want any more/couldn't afford any more and I didn't want my wife to take the pill (I have a thing against pills on health grounds). I think there is a distinction between terminating a pregnancy and contraception. I thought my decision was quite responsible and caring......and how do you know it wasn't my wife that wanted to have her way and not be inconvenienced wink

rob99 Sun 28-Jul-13 18:18:21

Alconleigh...... I'm sure it helps to look at it that way but it's not the way I look at it and I don't say that to be horrible because I'm sure it was a difficult and upsetting time. I've got 2 grown up daughters and I'd like to think I'd support them fully in their decision if they were in this situation even if I didn't necessarily agree with it.

filee777 Sun 28-Jul-13 18:18:37

I really think this thread should go back to being about confused...

Maryz Sun 28-Jul-13 18:26:39

rob, you have made your point. Lots of times. I'm sure the op knows what you think.

Give it a rest now, unless you have something else to say.

Maryz Sun 28-Jul-13 18:28:24

Exactly filee hmm

It's a bit of a moot point to say she should have used contraception. Ok, maybe she should, but what's that got to do with the rest of the thread - in fact, what's that got to do with the rest of us at all?

She didn't say "do you think I was silly to get pregnant?". She's asking for help to get her head around where she is now and where to go from here.

fuzeshi Sun 28-Jul-13 18:28:47

rob, I'm sure your daughters will feel very supported by you when you call them man-hating murderers who should have kept their legs closed.

Val007 Sun 28-Jul-13 18:44:18

I cannot help but notice how many women feel bad about spending money on their children. Do you hate yourselves so much, really?

I ask that, because I view my children as an extention of me. My genes will hopefully continue to live long after I am dead through my children, grandchildren etc. I personally do not and cannot make a difference between me and my children. Actually, they are always a priority and the only feeling I get when spending money on my kids is joy.

PS I also hate watching kids' movies, but... what can you do?... Evey silver lining has its cloud ;)

OP, if you were trying to conceive, then please do not be scared of these feelings. And please, allow your husband to have a say as well. I am sorry to say, but in your situation I sense that if you abort the baby, your husband will leave you. Don't ask me why - we have seen too many similar cases in life and in history.

Twirlyhot Sun 28-Jul-13 18:50:46

'I sense that if you abort the baby, your husband will leave you. Don't ask me why - we have seen too many similar cases in life and in history.'

What unpleasant bullshit.

ChippingInHopHopHop Sun 28-Jul-13 18:58:23

Val007 - Have you seen a therapist about that? It is not normal or right to think of your children as an extension of you. They are their own person and it would do you well to remember that as they grow up.

... and as for the rest of the bullshit... really? Get a grip and take it for a walk.

Val007 - who is 'we' ?? Seriously?? Are you rob99's wife?

filee777 Sun 28-Jul-13 19:14:32

The prophet

On children

Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.

Twirlyhot Sun 28-Jul-13 19:18:34

Did someone sound he klaxon in batshit central?

OP: I hope that you and your H have managed to talk and decide what it is that you want.

For what it's worth, being married doesn't mean that you are forced to continue a pregnancy. There is no should, just that you can do what you think is best for you. Not for society, not because of what people might think of you. For you.

It's pretty disgusting that some posters have used a woman's plea for advice into an opportunity to spout their own trumpets. This isn't the place for your pro-life propaganda. Take it somewhere else, preferably somewhere that nobody can hear you, or see you.

As to the poster asking why she came here, a parents forum to ask advice, that's pretty much the stupidest question on the thread.

confused75 Sun 28-Jul-13 19:42:11

okay this thread has gone on a lot of tangents. understandable given how emotive the subject is.

we are still talking and talking.

a few points though, in n.ireland the criteria for an abortion is extremely narrow, and the vast majority of people from here travel to england for the procedure.

To val who has a feeling that my husband is going to leave me, that is one thing i am completely certain won't happen, we are making this decision together. we are in this together whatever the outcome.

To rob who suggested i should have kept my legs closed, that comment pretty much invalidates your other input which i had previously said i accepted. i don't know what your deleted comments were, i did not see them.

To the person who asked why i would ask this on a parenting forum, i did this because i wanted to here from women who might have felt the same thing. All of the experiences shared here have really helped me question the roots of my feelings, were they going to permanent, am i underestimating the hormones? THANK YOU to everyone who shared. it has been enormously helpful. I just didn't want to get stuck in a negative train of thought and the questions people asked me have really challenged me. i am going to take a break from the internet for a few days and keep thinking and talking.

Again, thanks to everyone

SunshineBossaNova Sun 28-Jul-13 19:46:19

Confused, I hope you're okay. Good luck with whatever you decide xxx flowers

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Sun 28-Jul-13 19:52:26

OP- Sorry about all the bullshit. I hope you are ok. I am glad to hear that you and your DH are talking. I hope you make the decision that is right for you.

If you go to Marie Stopes in Belfast, I am sure you know this, but be ready for protesters outside.

MrsDeVere Sun 28-Jul-13 20:00:10

confused I am so sorry this thread has gone this way.
Its embarrassing.

I hope you and your husband are able to come to the right decision for you.

Best wishes with whatever you decide.

As for some of you....fucking hell.

MrsDeVere Sun 28-Jul-13 20:04:59

And why has that troll not been barred from this site?

I think he has made enough inflammatory and attacking comments to warrent it.

'keep your legs shut'.

WTF?

Trills Sun 28-Jul-13 20:08:26

Two weeks ago you did not want to be pregnant. You did not want to have a child.

You've taken a test that says you are pregnant.

But there's really no reason why you would suddenly change your mind and WANT to be pregnant or to have a child.

I think a parenting forum is a very good place to discuss pregnancy and abortion. Many women who have abortions are mothers at the time, or go on to become mothers at a later time.

Twirlyhot Sun 28-Jul-13 20:36:05

A lot of the women having abortions are married/in long term relationships and already have children. This is a good place to ask.

I wish you well with whatever you decide.

RaRaZ Sun 28-Jul-13 20:41:35

Do you think - not aimed at everyone, obviously - we could perhaps go back to the OP's dilemma? I appreciate my own posts could be seen as me 'having an agenda', so I'd like to make clear that I am NOT against abortion. However, I think it's important that people realise how awful it can be for the women involved. Spouting pro-life propaganda ain't gonna help here. This lady needs practical advice, not to be told she's immoral or doing a bad thing if she has an abortion. She isn't: the foetus is not an independent life. It feels nothing and knows nothing. Abortion might not be nice, but I don't think anyone is claiming that it is. No-one really wants an abortion in the sense of aspiring to have one, but sometimes it is necessary for social/emotional/financial reasons, and a woman shouldn't be victimised for making that decision. OP, you asked for help here. I hope you're getting it. The best advice I can give you is to follow your gut instinct. In my experience, ignore it at your peril (and to hell with logic).

rob99 Sun 28-Jul-13 20:42:04

I'm not a troll. I suppose trying to get someone barred from a site is one way of getting rid of someone with a different opinion to your own. I feel like this has been a bit of a witch hunt and my keep your legs shut comment was in reply to an equally flippant and ridiculous post.

I'm a bit shocked TBH....I assumed kids were always in safe hands with women-folk.....I'm really shocked.

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Sun 28-Jul-13 21:05:17

Oh don't be so ridiculous Rob. No one minds an opinion. You would be perfectly entitled to express to the OP that you are anti-abortion and don't think that that should be her choice. You can do that as part of PARD which does not descend to hyperbole and reciting your own political opinion again and again like some particularly offensive stuck record.

It hasn't been a witch hunt. It has been a group of posters calling you on wildly inappropriate behaviour utterly lacking in empathy.

As for your last statement. It isn't a child. But even if it were, you don't believe that. No one who has ever seen the news believes that. So stop making dramatic and implausible statements to try and further your argument.

MrsDeVere Sun 28-Jul-13 21:05:22

No rob, don't flatter yourself it is because of your different opinions.
It is because you are a misogynist.
On a thread about women's reproductive rights.

There is no place for you here.

You can't even work out if you are pro life or not.

Abortion is murder unless the 'baby' is a product of rape.

How does that even begin to make sense?

shameshame Sun 28-Jul-13 21:13:13

confused75

Sorry this thread has been hijacked by some pro-lifers and one particular nonsensical wierdo.

I have had a termination in similar circumstances and I am now at peace with that decision. I won't lie, in the period after I felt remorse, guilt, regret and felt my reasons for termination were selfish - 'not ready', 'not maternal', 'no cash' and overall it was VERY HARD. Looking back it was the right thing to do for me. It won't be easy but take your time making your decision. The hardest part for me was the decision making process as you have a small window of time and shit loads of new hormones coursing through your veins making it so you can't see the wood for the trees at times. PM me any time if you want a chat.

shameshame Sun 28-Jul-13 21:16:27

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

MrsDeVere Sun 28-Jul-13 21:17:35

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Maryz Sun 28-Jul-13 21:23:12

Confused, you don't have to justify your decision or respond to anyone on this thread.

I wish you all the best flowers

rob99 Sun 28-Jul-13 21:24:30

Nonsensical wierdo......because I'm generally against abortion but I'd consider it fair if a lady was raped. I give my opinion and because it flies in the face of popular opinion on here, I'm lambasted by several posters. Then I defend myself from these attacks and I'm accused of hijacking the thread......you're a bit of a hate-fuelled mob of feminists.

You say "pro-life" as though it's a dirty word......It's the best gift that God gave the human race. You must be tripping....seriously.

Maryz Sun 28-Jul-13 21:25:12

Sadly I don't think rob is a troll. It's a shame because it means there is a real live person who thinks his responses on this thread are ok.

Which is sad.

confused

One thing that did help me was a mumsnetter who had an abortion because she wanted all her children to be wanted. That helped me to separate terminating my third pg from maybe wanting a third dc at some point. May be useful for you to mull on.

Wishing you all the best. It really is a difficult time. Be nice to yourself.

rob99 Sun 28-Jul-13 21:27:19

MrsDevere, haven't you got any Doc Martin's you need to be polishing ?

MrsDeVere Sun 28-Jul-13 21:29:10

Yeah nice come back rob <yawn>

Back in the knife drawer Master Sharp hmm

Maryz Sun 28-Jul-13 21:31:15

I would call him childish but that would be insulting to children

MrsDeVere Sun 28-Jul-13 21:31:16

How is a baby born out of rape less worthy of life Rob?
Either every life is sacred or it isn't.

ChippingInHopHopHop Sun 28-Jul-13 21:31:58

confused - we will all still be here if you need to talk anymore or ask any specific questions. I hope you and DH can come to an agreement that feels right for you - and no matter what you decide - you always need to remember how much time & effort you put into making what was the right decision at the time, it's the only thing you can ever do x

rob99 Sun 28-Jul-13 21:42:53

Well it clearly isn't less worthy of life is it. A woman who chooses to keep a child after rape is a very special person IMO.

Mary....name calling....really!

MrsDeVere Sun 28-Jul-13 21:44:32

You seem confused about what you really believe.

rob99 Sun 28-Jul-13 21:52:47

Not at all. A life growing in the womb should be given every chance. I'm not a woman but if a woman wants an abortion because it's rather inconvenient, I don't believe that's right. If a woman is pregnant as a result of being raped, I believe that it's reasonable for her to want an abortion but I'd hope she wouldn't. I don't feel at all confused about that.

So women can have abortions as long as they fit in with your particular moral code, rob? Would you like them all to ask you first? Or maybe we can just ask Cameron to give you a call and you can help him draft the exceptions.

MrsDeVere Sun 28-Jul-13 22:02:54

You can't have it both ways.
You either believe every life is sacred or you don't. As a pp said I would have more respect for your pro life views if they had actual integrity. Your's don't.

You pick and chose which life is worth something.

Either you are pro or you are not. A child of rape, a disabled child, a healthy child they all either have the same rights to life or they do not.

But this thread is for the OP and I suspect from your style of posting that you would be happy to continue this exchange for hours and just keep posting your 'pithy' little comments about dr martins and ladies and other things that you think might upset the wimmin.

It would be inappropriate to give you that platform.

I hope the OP reaches an informed decision based on what is best for her family and not some inadequate bloke on the internet who can't quite make his mind up what he thinks.

Maryz Sun 28-Jul-13 22:06:17

Bloody hell, those last condescending pompous posts from rob are making me feel slightly sick.

I'm not sure I want rob and his ilk in charge of how bad a woman's situation has to be before she is "allowed" to have an abortion.

rob99 Sun 28-Jul-13 22:14:39

MrsDevere....I can have it any way I want and I can believe whatever I want.....I don't tell you what to believe do I...Although I think I can guess...you've called me a dick and a misogynist already...charming.

Mary, If your opinion is kill the baby if it interferes with next years trip to Kenya, mine is don't kill the baby.

If a woman is raped, I can understand her wanting an abortion.....I'm not making the rules. Is there something you don't understand about that. I think it's quite simple. Are you broken ?

scottishmummy Sun 28-Jul-13 22:14:46

Start to make plans to come to mainland and proceed with termination if that what you want
Will you book AL off or sick note to cover work?i suppose you need to be discreet too
Make sure you have adequate support and whatever you decide that you both support each other

Maryz Sun 28-Jul-13 22:19:09

<hides poster>

Thank goodness mnhq have introduced the option

5madthings Sun 28-Jul-13 22:22:25

But do you not see how contradictory your position is? Either you believe all life is sacred or its not, you don't get to have a halfway house with abortion.

Plus how would it work practically,given the appalling record of convictions for rape and a legal process that takes month. Do you let a woman terminate on her word that she was raped or does she need 'proof'. As I said earlier I would respect your viewpoint more if it was actually consistent.

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Sun 28-Jul-13 22:24:15

5Mad - There is really no point trying to debate with Rob. He's not going to listen to anyone or consider anything.

rob99 Sun 28-Jul-13 22:34:26

Mary called me childish....wow

5madthings. I don't know exactly what your beef is. My opinion on abortion is that I strongly disagree with a woman who gets pregnant and after the fact, decides to terminate because it doesn't fit in with her plans and/or lifestyle. If a woman is raped and she wants a termination, I can understand that. I've not said I want to make abortion illegal. I believe life is precious, including an unborn baby.

If a ship was sinking and I could save half the kids but not all of them, what should I do? Leave them all because there is no halfway house.

If my opinion is a halfway house, so what! I'm appealing not to the laws of the land but to potential parents who want to terminate. If a raped woman terminates, I'd find that more acceptable than a woman who finds herself pregnant and it's just inconvenient. The life is no less precious but what can I do about it ?

FFS. You'd like to decide what makes an acceptable reason to terminate, would you Rob?

OP is not just talking about "doesn't fit in with her lifestyle or convenience". She's talking about whether she can be a good parent or not.

There are over 1/2 million kids in this country on the at risk registers - still, what we need, eh, Rob, is more women being forced to have babies they don't want.

rob99 Sun 28-Jul-13 23:03:20

No, I personally wouldn't like to decide what makes an acceptable reason to terminate.

The decision about whether someone can be a good parent or not, I believe, should be made before conception and in my opinion isn't an acceptable reason to abort.

There are so many kids on the at risk register because society is broken.

I wouldn't ever force a woman to have a baby she didn't want.

Hope I cleared that up.

Next.

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

rob99 Sun 28-Jul-13 23:18:05

Very ladylike blush

It's kind of sad when someone struggling with a really difficult emotive life changing decision comes on here asking for shared experience and advice is met with moralising and negativity. This isn't AIBU, it's relationships, people only venture on here when they need help and hand holding.

Rob, leave it, OP has enough to deal with right now. Have a little empathy and compassion.

Secretswitch Mon 29-Jul-13 07:33:02

Hi, confused75. I just want to give you support for whatever choice you make. I am a married mother of 3. I have had two terminations. Both abortions were done early and were mostly pain free. I had cramping that lasted a free days afterward, well managed by ibuprofen. I had no emotional side effects. I was very clear about my decision to have an abortion both times. You have to make the choice you can best live with.
I did chose to have a baby at 42 with a partner that was not totally on board at the time. I let him know I planned to continue the pregnancy and would parent with or without his assistance. He came around, adores his child, and we have been married for several years.
I am not incredibly maternal. I do not enjoy the intense neediness of the under 3 crowd. Many times, I would rather be reading a book. I enjoy more children more now that they are older. They are funny, interesting and good company.
Whatever choice you make is entirely valid for whatever reasons you have.
Sending you tons of virtual support...

insanityscratching Mon 29-Jul-13 08:25:52

I became unexpectedly pregnant in my mid thirties (contraception failure) I was devastated, my family was complete, it wasn't supposed to happen, I cried and raged and made an appointment for a termination.
I had my initial appointment and was to return after the weekend, over the weekend I began to bleed and I felt relieved that I didn't have to make a choice it seemed like the decision was being made for me. I cancelled the termination thinking what would be would be.
The pregnancy held firm, I won't pretend I was happy, I told no one but dh until I was 26 weeks and then only told my other children and dsis. I bought barely anything as I couldn't cope with shopping for baby stuff. The first time anyone asked if I was pregnant I was a day overdue.
Dd was born a couple of days later and as she was placed on my chest she opened her eyes and looked at me and that was it the forty weeks of sadness and regret just melted away and I was smitten and felt incredibly blessed.
Dd is ten now and she was definitely meant to be, she's my pride and joy, she's cherished by us all and nothing makes me happier than seeing her interactions with her adult siblings who adore her (the ones I would have terminated for so that they didn't have to miss out)
I won't advise you either way but would say that the hormones will be playing their part in how you feel now.

Zara1984 Mon 29-Jul-13 09:34:16

Rob99 please start your own thread, as MNHQ suggested, if you want to talk about abortion generally. This is NOT an appropriate thread to do it on. The OP has come for advice about her situation, she did not intend to open up a debate about abortion generally. Your posts are really out of order given the nature of this thread and the sensitive situation the OP is in, and some of the very heartfelt posts of other women who have/have not had terminations.

Might I suggest that the rest of us now stop responding to Rob99's posts?

Figgygal Mon 29-Jul-13 13:25:36

Op i have Private messaged you i hope you are still there??

brightonbythesea Mon 29-Jul-13 13:37:01

My baby not planned at all, I was 26, just making progress in my career, in a relationship with someone I hadn't been with for as long as I would have liked, living in a shared house with a friend. I agonised over whether to terminate or to plough on, as I knew I'd want children one day. Life threw a card at us, and we decided to have our baby. She is 9 months old now, and the absolute best mistake I ever made. Yes, I have less freedom, and yes I get up extremely early (!) but we both love her dearly and the thought that I nearly terminated her is a horrible thought. I am completely and utterly pro choice, and you should do whatever is best for you, but just telling you my story as sometimes life throws a curve ball and it is an opportunity to have something you haven't even thought about.

thegreylady Mon 29-Jul-13 17:12:38

May I just say how sorry I am that my first post on here was deleted even though I didn't think I was being inflammatory at all-just expressing a point of view-maybe too forcefully. As I said this situation is entirely for the op and her dh to consider. She did say that they were leaving things to chance which seems a little unwise if they did not want a baby. I also appreciate , as I maybe didn't before, that if she has a termination they will accept this as a decision to remain 'child-free'. This is a desperately sad dilemma on several levels and I wish the op well whatever she decides.

frissonpink Mon 29-Jul-13 17:30:26

Gosh what a terribly sad thread.

I do actually disagree though with the ladies who say it's simply cells -mainly on the basis that although the OP may be 5 weeks now, by the time she actually gets her abortion, she could well be 8wks+. We are certainly not talking bunches of cells by then.

OP I wish you strength and pray that you make a decision you are able to live with comfortably for the rest of your life. I wouldn't wish this kind of dilemma on anyone. sad

RaRaZ Mon 29-Jul-13 19:36:51

Frisson : Whilst I agree, generally it's not recognisable until about 9 weeks (which might make a difference if the OP is concerned about what she will see).

frissonpink Mon 29-Jul-13 19:43:47

Fair point RaRaz

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