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came across a few interesting texts, now what?

(367 Posts)
houmousandcarrotsandwich Mon 22-Jul-13 07:00:42

Been married to dh for 7 years in August and have 2 young dc. As far as I was aware all was ok, life has been hard work with 2 little ones but I assume this is normal.
Then last night dh had left his phone on charge while he showered (he's usually very attached to it) and as I went passed he received a text. It flashes up who and the message, I see its a woman (whose name I've never heard him mention). Message said something along the lines of I hate it when we talk and everyone is watching. Do I hsd a quick look at his messsges. Only had a few minutes but looked pretty friendly all texts ending in kisses, there were also similar from another woman.

I have never gone through his phone before. What the hell do I do now?! If I confront him I show I've been through his phone and don't trust him (which before last night I did)

Any ideas on how I get any more evidence?

TheFallenNinja Mon 22-Jul-13 07:03:17

Evidence of what? He got a friendly text from a woman you don't know.

nkf Mon 22-Jul-13 07:07:03

Why would anyone hate to talk while being watched? Odd, I agree. Snoop a bit more maybe?

Mixxy Mon 22-Jul-13 07:07:21

Lookbat his phone when he is asleep.If its all innocent, forget it.

kalidanger Mon 22-Jul-13 07:07:52

I'd definitely be suspicious at the very least "I hate it when we talk and everyone is watching" implies "because I want to talk to you alone"

How friendly are the other texts?

houmousandcarrotsandwich Mon 22-Jul-13 07:36:48

I wanted to look again when he was asleep last night (I didn't get much sleep! ) but he seemed to wake/stir every time I got up (for water, toddler falling out of bed etc).

Glad others are maybe seeing what I am and not judt being paranoid!

Texts included talk of if they went to the zoo together it would look "weird" (with the other woman whose name I dont remember) asking (maybe more begging) for him to come along to someones birthday drinks as he's so funny when he's drunk (I know nothing of these birthday drinks, whose birthday it is or previous drinkd when it's not been just 'lads')
Lots of "good night x"
The one whose name I do remember is very common, so Facebook searches maybe out of the question (are there ways of narrowing down a search? ). Dh not on Facebook so can't check there.

Maybe I should also mention thst he had some kind of Internet affair just after we got married. He says he never met/had sex with any of them just chatted (Although he put on dating type sites he was looking for no strings fun). He says it was his way of coping with my grief/depression (my dad had just suddenly died). I was too weak to chuck him out then and over a few months we moved on from it.

Where else is good to look for evidence?

coffeewineandchocolate Mon 22-Jul-13 07:44:31

do you know his email password? does he use a laptop? I think you can get a programme which records keystrokes is what he is typing. tbh if you don't trust him is probably already over as you will drive yourself mad wondering.

DfanjoUnchained Mon 22-Jul-13 07:49:39

Dig more before you confront otherwise if there is something going on, he will delete everything.
The 'goodnights' and xx suggest an EA to me

Mixxy Mon 22-Jul-13 07:50:39

Second time offender, huh? Keep at that phone. Any chance of email access? Put the woman's name into facebook, even if it is common, people often put their locstion and the company they work for out there.

kalidanger Mon 22-Jul-13 07:52:37

Oh, he's got form for trying to cheat and blaming you? Great hmm

TheFallenNinja Mon 22-Jul-13 07:56:17

Ok, so a bit more info tells me more.

I would just confront him. You will know by his face if he's telling the truth.

Fairylea Mon 22-Jul-13 07:59:57

I'm sorry but it doesn't sound good, especially as he has form for this sort of thing.

He should have been supporting you when your dad died, not looking for someone else to fuck (sorry to be so harsh but I feel so angry on your behalf).

I would actually take screen shots of the texts using your own phone and confront him about it. Personally I think it would be a bit of a deal breaker for me, it's clearly flirtatious behaviour.

doesn't look good at all. i agree with whoever said just confront him and watch his face. surely if you've lived with someone for 7 years you are totally able to know when they are lying?

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 22-Jul-13 08:07:19

You've got the evidence. hmm Sit him down and tell him that you're onto him and demand to know what the hell is going on. Get him on the back foot with no time to think about his answers and you'll be able to tell instantly if he's fobbing you off.

Mixxy Mon 22-Jul-13 08:07:57

Don't trust the face! Polished liars fool people all the time. I mean you had no suspicions first, right? You never get to go back and snoop after you confront as they all delete things!

DfanjoUnchained Mon 22-Jul-13 08:10:55

Someone who is having an affair can lie very well and put on a poker face. Then the op will doubt herself and never know the truth

UnrequitedSkink Mon 22-Jul-13 08:11:52

Sounds like someone he works with, so if you have got a name and company you can just Google and if she has a linkedin profile it should come up. I'm not sure what it will achieve but I'd want to know. Good luck holding back on confronting him though, I'm not sure I'd be strong enough to do that.

josiejay Mon 22-Jul-13 08:13:24

Wow he tried to cheat on you because you were depressed after losing your dad? Nice.

I think you know it isn't looking good. He miight not have slept with this woman but that first text implies more than friendship. So sorry you're going through this.

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 22-Jul-13 08:14:29

"Someone who is having an affair can lie very well and put on a poker face"

Only if they're relaxed and prepared IME. Take them by surprise, pick a calm moment, go in hard, go in angry, tell them 'I know what's been going on' and they don't have time to compose their features convincingly.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Mon 22-Jul-13 08:22:36

Can't believe I'm here again to be honest. Upset pretty much covers it.

I want solid proof, then he can't lie. So annoyed I chucked the evidence from last time, as I told myself I had to let go of the past and not to punish him as I had forgiven him.

I have checked email, nothing (but thats how i confirmed evidence last time, so surely not that stupid! )

Unfortunately no lap top, all his internet is done on phone (thanks technology! )

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 22-Jul-13 08:23:44

You've got solid proof. Bluff the rest. Make out you know a lot more than you actually do. Use your smarts!!!

Ledkr Mon 22-Jul-13 08:26:13

I always wonder about these threads.
Years ago I looked at dh phone (only been together a few months then) and was a bit pissed off about a couple of things I read.
Upset, I told him straight that I was really sorry but I read his texts and was now wondering about one of them.
He was more concerned that I was upset than the fact if read his phone, explained what the text meant and it was all sorted.
If dh read my messages and then felt worried I would be more concerned about reassuring him than my privacy.
I often wonder how people are married and have kids with people who they then can't be upfront with.

Mixxy Mon 22-Jul-13 08:33:26

How wonderful for you Ledkr. hmm

MadAboutHotChoc Mon 22-Jul-13 09:05:25

What is he like at home - has his behaviour changed at all? Being grumpy, critical and picking petty arguments are all red flags.

no i agree with ledkr i'm afraid. it mystifies me how people can sit and eat together, lay down and sleep in the same bed nightly and share the raising of children and not be able to just have an upfront discussion. if there is so little trust that you don't think you could ask a question and get an honest answer then surely that in itself is evidence enough that your marriage is broken let alone wondering if they are actually having an affair.

it seems like people can live together as strangers virtually with less trust and intimacy than i have with friends.

i have never been married by the way so i appreciate i'm not an expert from the inside - but from outside looking in it always reads as terribly sad and strange.

Ledkr Mon 22-Jul-13 09:23:42

I'm sorry mizzy I'm not with you?

Ledkr Mon 22-Jul-13 09:25:27

Oh I see now. It's better to look at his phone again while he's asleep than to just have an adult discussion with the most important person in your life.
Yes of course. That makes perfect sense.

TalkativeJim Mon 22-Jul-13 09:42:38

You could look at this another way.

What do you want?

I think you run the risk of getting bogged down in looking for 'evidence'.

You have all the evidence you need of the important bit... that he is a cheat, and more than that, pretty much a nasty slimebag. You know the latter from last time - his excuse (or rather the way he chose to blame you) for his betrayal was that you were grieving?? I'd want to be a million miles away from a relationship with a man like that. That's unbelievably bad in every sense. That isn't a husband, a partner, a father.

So you know from then that he's neither loyal, nor kind, nor honest... and that he's weak, too.

And now you know that it wasn't a one-off, mad event - but a pattern. Does it matter if you know he has actually kissed or inserted his dick into one of these women? What would it change? He's unfaithful, he lies to you, he thinks it's ok to pursue inappropriate relationships with other women and he will keep doing it because he wants to and because he is absolutely fine with lying to you and cheating on you. His idea of marriage is this.

So what do you want? Do you want to stay with this man despite this? You have all the time in the world to think about it. You don't have to gather any more evidence than you have in order to decide to leave him. I think I would focus on what I wanted from life, in the full realisation now that having a good, honest, strong marriage with this man was not one of the options.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Mon 22-Jul-13 10:41:04

If only it was that easy? !

Ledkr Mon 22-Jul-13 11:53:30

No it's not easy at all. I had to boot my cheating arse out when I was recovering from cancer and had 4 dc one a baby.
In your case tho I'd just say. Look mate, I've read some texts. Really sorry I did that but what I saw is doing my head in. Especially with what happened before.
How about you explain and help me to feel better?

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 22-Jul-13 12:16:50

It's easier than you think to put it to him. What's not easy are all the consequences of doing so. Consequences that you're probably rattling through in your head right now. What's really tough, however, is to say nothing, suck down all the resentment and unhappiness and then find yourself self-medicating the pain away with booze, pills or fattening foods.....

Mixxy Mon 22-Jul-13 12:32:12

What I meant led was that you just seem to attack the
OP rather smugly without offering advice.

And it is unfortunate for people like yourself that they are the most shocked when lying occurs within a marriage. You just couldnt possibly believe a man who you have totally been honest with could lie to your face.

ImperialBlether Mon 22-Jul-13 12:40:12

I think you're extrapolating a hell of a lot there, Mixxy and you're getting really personal. There's no need to use phrases like "people like yourself" and then make a huge general assumption.

Fairenuff Mon 22-Jul-13 12:47:26

Previous cheating, keeping phone close, dodgy text messages. Do you really need more evidence? Just confront him.

Mixxy Mon 22-Jul-13 12:56:40

Your right, imperial, I shouldn't have said 'people like yourself'. Sorry led. It just seems to me that a lot of times people are so upset by affairs because they leadt expect them. They seem to suffer under the illusion that
they are 50% of a great marriage, when the other person is lying to them the entire time. Is it not almost universal that people say 'what hurt most was the lies'.

Ledkr Mon 22-Jul-13 13:09:45

Um! Did you read my last post?
After 18 yrs and four kids damn right I was surprised.
I'm certainly not "people like you" I've had it tough like many others.
What I have learned though is its best to be upfront rather than sit on fear as often its unfounded but if not then the truth is sometimes easier than the unknown.

ColinButterfly Mon 22-Jul-13 13:23:08

It's hard to confront - you want the truth but at the same time you can't handle the truth. Ignorance being bliss and all.

Good luck

Mixxy Mon 22-Jul-13 14:43:43

I see Led. What I was getting at, albeit not very clearly, is that some might want to confront with a bit more ammo. Knowing that cheaters, deny, delete and minimize, Im in the camp of presenting the question in a form of a fait-au-complet. Because the denial is then by-passed and you can really just lay it all out.

Sorry you had such an awful time. flowers. And apologies on my unclear statements. I meant no offence.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Mon 22-Jul-13 15:23:40

Ok my marriage isn't perfect, but its not awful. We don't have blazing rows, he's not violent, I genuinely love and care for him.

I am scared of being a single mum, only because it is the unknown.
I also want the very best for my children and I wonder if I can just learn to live with the situation, it will mean not hurting them.

Thanks for all your response. I feel I need to have solid proof, then if thid is the end I hope my nit keft feeling I've made a mistake. With proof there is no denying the facts

Ledkr Mon 22-Jul-13 15:27:10

Good luck op xx

MissStrawberry Mon 22-Jul-13 17:33:06

Only someone who is up to no good would want no people watching them while they talked.

Seth Mon 22-Jul-13 17:50:26

Ledkr and swallowed..I think it's plainly obvious that neither of you have been in the position that the Op finds herself in (as I did too a few years back) .If you had then you would realise how insensitive and lacking in understanding you both sound. It's not that simple. Not helpful in this instance either.

Seth Mon 22-Jul-13 17:51:50

Ledkr apologies.was responding to an earlier post of yours.

Hissy Mon 22-Jul-13 19:11:02

I get Ledkr's position, she sees the OP's situation as a lot more cut and dried, because (a) she's on the other side of it, and (b) cancer and 4dc on top kind of puts betrayal by a bloke into perspective.

Being a single parent is what millions of others do every day. It's lightyears better than the alternative of watching your soul crumble to a million pièces, and teaching your kids that a crappy man is better than no man.

OP, don't be scared. There's nothing to be scared of. It's only a change in your life's path. You'll be OK. You'll probably be way better than OK actually, as life with a cheat is a permanently borrowed situation. We all deserve better than that!

Hissy Mon 22-Jul-13 19:12:29

I'm not minimising your pain btw OP, I know it hurts worse than anything you've ever felt, but it's not your fault, and it doesn't mean anything about you.

He's a twat. Always was, always will be.

Hissy Mon 22-Jul-13 19:14:22

So why should you be the one agonising? Sit him down, tell him you 'know' and watch him wriggle.

i'm not being insensitive. the reality is that truth is the only way forward. you can delay it playing games, denying it, hoping you can ignore it and pretend all is well but that is not reality and it is not healthy. real, grown up life is about facing the truth head on and dealing with it. no i'm not saying that's easy and i'm a lone parent of a six year old and whilst i'm happy enough most of the time no it isn't easy but living in some bullshit relationship would have destroyed my soul so a bit not easy and rough versus living in deceit and bullshit is an obvious equation in my book.

as it is in everyone's really whether they go straight to it or dance around and torture themselves for 5, 10, 30 years first.

this is your life OP. truth and reality is the only way forward really. anything else is a massive detour and waste of your precious time.

Looksgoodingravy Mon 22-Jul-13 21:20:29

Homous, I totally understand your need to want more evidence.

I've been in your position. Five months before I found out everything something came to light and I confronted dp, he denied, I believed him and even apologised to being paranoid! angry

When the whole sorry story came out it took dp about three weeks to admit to everything (and things I would never have found out) initially he tried to minimise.

With this in mind I too would gather as much evidence as possible, his phone is the key!

Hissy Mon 22-Jul-13 21:24:12

SAF, you're right, the truth IS the only way.

Regardless of what that brings, living truthfully really is better than guessing, second guessing and wondering what on earth's going on.

Ledkr Mon 22-Jul-13 21:33:39

If I ever come across as insensitive I apologise but it's because I feel very passionately about women feeling that they are capable of more than just accepting what their partners dish out.
I was bloody petrified when I kicked out dh but I knew I wanted a happier life and staying with him after his betrayal would make me very unhappy.
I had a shift job, 8 month old baby, fake tits and a bad prognosis. Huge mortgage etc.
oh but life was so much sweeter once I'd grieved and recovered and my dignity is still strong too.
All I was trying to say to the op was just to ask him the truth.
If he's got nothing to hide then he will be fine with that surely.

Mixxy Mon 22-Jul-13 22:01:36

I think that's where we got got our wires crossed led I don't advocate any women plays a wait and see game, or contemplates just sucking it up while living in denial.
Time and again here, women talk about the denial, the deleting of information and the minimizing. If you gather the information, you cannot live in denial oneself. It also cuts down on the amount of time he can then spend dicking around with denials, misdirection and all the other ploys.

I agree ask for the truth. She is entitled to it. But one shouldn't expect to get it. From there its up to her how much crap she's willing to deal with.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Tue 23-Jul-13 06:30:07

Thanks all. I appreciate you are being honest and saying it as it is.

Am kicking myself as was so exhausted last night I slept right through, do didn't get chance to get phone. Saw one message flash up from one of them "xx"

Found both on Facebook. Both appear to have kids and definitely one works with him. The one is really pretty :'(
I wonder if they know about each other? Feel like messaging them to tell them about the other (im usually such a nasty person)

Trying to keep busy x

Mixxy Tue 23-Jul-13 07:19:48

So he does work with at least one of them.

Is 'trying to keep busy' a way of biding your time or a way of seeing if you can stick your neck in the sand and hopes it goes away?

Hope your day is plenty busy, houmous.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Tue 23-Jul-13 12:14:15

Got the phone while he was in the shower. She suggested that meet early for work Saturday as it will be quite.
I went ballistic, packed him a bag. He came out the shower and called him all the names under the sun said I knew what was going on, ssid their names. Told him to leave, I don't deserve to be hurt like this etc.

He cried, swears the its just been flirty texts and he knows he's done wrong.
After I calmed down I suggested talking properly when the kids were in bed tonight (they were downstairs when this was happening)

I desperately want to believe him, I don't want to break up my family.
We both agreed we don't do enough as a couple and this is something we need to work on.

Any advice, feel like im swimming in emotional soup x

Fairenuff Tue 23-Jul-13 12:24:20

Well done on confronting him. You did the right thing to tell him no uncertain terms that you will not accept being treated like this.

I think he will try to do damage control as much as he can. What was his first reaction? To try and get you to take some responsibility - We both agreed we don't do enough as a couple and this is something we need to work on - and that's not a good sign.

If that was the case, he could have talked to you about it, it didn't mean that he had to go flirting with other women did it?

I think that whilst you have the upper hand just now, you should push forward and take a strong stance. Tell him to move out whilst you think about what you want.

This does not mean that the relationship is over but he doesn't need to know that. He needs to be absolutely petrified that he's blown it and lost the only woman he really wants. Only then will he be truly contrite, take 100% responsibility for what he has done and do whatever he needs to to regain your trust.

OrmirianResurgam Tue 23-Jul-13 12:25:40

Hi hummous, sorry to read this. Been there, done it. One thing to be aware of is once the dust has settled there will be more to come out. H at first told me he was helping her out because her life was difficult at the time. Bollocks he was! Once we really had a heart to heart he was very honest with me (too honest for me at the time as it hurt). There will be painful things to hear but they have to be heard for you to make the right decision. Good luck x

libertine73 Tue 23-Jul-13 12:47:36

so he goes looking for 'no strings sex' but that's OK cos he didn't actually do it hmm now he's having flirty relationships but that's OK too, cos he hasn't done anything about it.

Love,I'm really sorry,but if that's all there is,I'll eat my hat sad

houmousandcarrotsandwich Tue 23-Jul-13 12:54:58

Feel so angry! So mixed up
One of the women is married with a bsby whose not even a year, the other a single parent. Don't they give a shit about my poor children (they know they exist as they were mentioned in texts)

Will keep you all posted, thanks for taking the time to read my rantings, haven't come out in rl yet

Fairenuff Tue 23-Jul-13 12:58:30

houmous keep hold of that anger. It will help you. But try not to direct it at the women. Remember, he is the one who has to answer to you. Yes, they are at fault too but they don't owe you any loyalty. He does.

Val007 Tue 23-Jul-13 13:04:30

He is playing it sweet until you forgive him again. In the end of the day, he got away with it last time, didn't he? So why shouldn't he do it again? They never change, sorry. Womanisers, the lowest scum on earth. They always have excuses and we WANT to believe them. They know it, so they do what they want. Hate them!!!

practicality Tue 23-Jul-13 13:04:43

Take a stand and make him leave for a while while you think things through otherwise he will smother you in bullshit and you will cave .He will scent that you don't want to break up the family and will figure he has a free pass TO EFFECTIVELY WALK ALL OVER YOU. With the prospect of a bit of grief from you when you uncover his underhand behaviour set against carte blanche extra curriculars, well you are set up for more of the same.

Don't get mad get icy calm in your dealings with him. Unnerve him. Don't behave as expected. He has to feel that losing you is a very real prospect.

practicality Tue 23-Jul-13 13:06:16

There is no point focussing on other women. He is your partner and the only one answerable in this case.

Jan45 Tue 23-Jul-13 13:17:22

OMG, so it's your fault too that he's flirting with other women - cos you don't do enough as a couple, well sorry but are you texting two different men, no didn't think so.

He's been caught, of course he's sorry, and he'll use anything he can clutch at to make out it's your problem too - he's vile isn't he and he's already cheated before - it's up to you but he is definitely not a man you can trust, I don't see him changing.

Tell him to go, at least until you can think straight without him trying to confuse you with it being your fault too.....honestly, what a rat.

Jan45 Tue 23-Jul-13 13:18:06

And why are you focusing on the other women, they don't even know you so why would they care - your partner is making an arse out of you, sorry to be so blunt, get angry and get him out, for now anyway.

Cluffyflump Tue 23-Jul-13 13:22:37

I would take his phone, laptop, tablet ect now.
If he's going to have an open and honest discussion tonight, may as well start now.
If he refuses to hand them over, then you know he's planing on more lies sad

you have no idea what he's told them - for all you know they think you are a stark raving mad and make his life an utter misery and he has put up with you purely because he is a saint of a father who doesn't want to hurt his children etc etc etc.

THEY are not your problem. he is. and no this isn't because you don't do enough together as a couple. the answer to that is to take you out and make time not to go lying to and flirting with other women.

i'm sorry but this is awful - he has no respect.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Tue 23-Jul-13 16:46:08

Wish I'd checked back before messaging one of them now blush
I just said I had seen her messsges and I know it was a two way thing but what was she thinking behaving like this with a man who is married with 2 kids (so not too bunny boiler like?!)

Will keep you posted on tonights developments x

Jan45 Tue 23-Jul-13 16:49:43

Good luck chucking him out, he needs a serious reality check.

SawofftheOW Tue 23-Jul-13 17:31:31

Thinking of you - it is such a horrible position to be in. Posters are all right - he will try and minimise, minimise. By texting her it gives them chance to get their story together. But I'd have done the same and - hell - be a bunny boiler if you want! This is serious encroachment on your private marital territory. She is as bad as he and she knows exactly what she is doing - I have not a shred of sympathy for either of them. I'm so sorry but meeting at work early because it will be 'quiet' may also have given them the opportunity to go and have sex together somewhere. It's grim, I know, but my DH would meet his OW at work early, go for a run with her then shag her in a locked changing room when they got back, her having performed oral sex on him while out for the 'run'. Yes, it's shit and they all lie. All of them. He needs to be very, very afraid of losing you and your family life. How the hell would he react if he discovered you had behaved like this? Trust me, there is no way that he would accept that it was 'his fault'. Keep us updated and we all feel and share your pain. The physical and mental impact is terrible so try and look after yourself. Easier said than done I know. x

DfanjoUnchained Tue 23-Jul-13 17:34:46

You can't be the bunny boiler, you're the wife!

So sorry though. I hope it really just was flirty texts. Didnt you read back a bit to see more?

Fairenuff Tue 23-Jul-13 17:39:39

Also, insist that he goes for an sti check and brings you the paperwork to prove it. Even if he hasn't had sex without anyone he will appreciate that you can't just take his word for it right now and if he wants to work on the relationship, it would be the least he could to put your mind at rest.

This is a test. Try it out on him and see his reaction.

MissStrawberry Tue 23-Jul-13 17:40:14

He is following the script.

He knew he has done wrong but carried on.

YOU are not the one who is breaking up the family. HE is.

Somehow he has managed to put some blame on you by saying you don't do enough as a family.

He is behaving disgracefully and you packing a bag was fantastic and you should have kicked him out.

SawofftheOW Tue 23-Jul-13 17:41:37

Oh and agree totally with Swallowedafly - my DH said the most terrible things about me to his OW. I went from being the 'love of his life' (to me) to 'controlling, no interest in sex, always working (!), not interested in going to the gym, hyper-critical, always depressed (cheers for that), and simply not good enough for him'. Nice. At the same time he was sending me cards telling me that he totally adored me, I was the sexiest woman on earth and that he hated being apart from me for even a day (I was working abroad at the time). He became a man I didn't know and didn't recognise. It is like a nightmare - they have a personality transplant and it seems to be so prevalent, particularly in men, that I am sure it almost qualifies as a mental health issue. Be prepared for what he has said about you, his DW, to the OWomen. God, so sorry. x

Hissy Tue 23-Jul-13 19:27:48

Listen, regardless of how you feel, you need to be PREPARED to go the whole 9 yards and end the marriage.

Even if it's the last thing on your mind, you have to make him believe absolutely that you will go through with it unless he jumps through all the hoops to NEVER let this happen again.

If he feels like ever going looking for NSA, you want to know first so you can get his bag packed and book the locksmith.

Mean it.

Nothing short of bringing him up to speed damned fast will shake him out of this.

Cabrinha Tue 23-Jul-13 19:31:33

I'd tell him to fuck off.
To those who think - you should just be able to ask. Well, yes. I did that. Just asked, listened, suggested counselling. His story: I only looked at escort sites blah blah blah. What do you do? When they lie, and you have no evidence and don't want to break up your baby's home?
And that was in a situation with no financial dependency.
Fast forward 5 years... I found evidence. A miserable unfulfilling marriage and he'd clearly been sleep with prostitutes the whole time.
Divorce papers are in court as I type.
I understand why people want evidence.

You know though, OP, this time when he pulled the "I only looked" line, it didn't work because I said "you know that's enough though? It's over".
He was lying, but it didn't matter.

Even if your H was telling the truth, the flirty messages are reason enough, with his previous behaviour, to leave him. Or you live a soul destroying half life checking for evidence, wondering what the next revelation will be. Chuck him out. If there is any chance to save this, it'll only be with his effort, and I'm sorry to say I expect he won't even try.

Good luck to you. x

Buttercup4 Tue 23-Jul-13 20:01:19

Oh Houmous... sad I've been there before and it is absolutely awful.

There is a pattern here though, last time he blamed it on the grief of your father passing. This time it was because neither of were making enough effort.

Neither time did he feel that the right thing to do was to communicate with you about how he was feeling. Do not let him make you believe you played a part in this or were responsible for his actions. No matter how little effort was being put into the marriage, sending flirty messages (and sadly probably more) to other women Evans he was not committed to changing the situation you were in, only distracting himself from it. He could have not just thought about your feelings, but also the feelings if your DC who will inevitably be affected by his actions.

Yes, these women are horrible individuals, however, they do not have any loyalty to you so direct your frustration and hurt to the person who should have been loyal to you, your DH. Those women do not deserve any of your time or energy.

alphacourse Tue 23-Jul-13 20:07:14

Have you had a look to see if he is back on the websites? You can do a postcode search on most of them. Set up a disposable email account first though, so you don't get a million messages.

janeplane Tue 23-Jul-13 22:20:47

I'm finding this thread encapsulating. Firstly Seth, go you! You are absolutely right, and a voice of reason in this thread. Ledkr however, you are of course, also right, in all you say.

People should be strong, people should confront their fears and ask for the truth.

However, I don't see the point of this support network as that where we stand on our higher ground of 'experience' in responding to need and expect the same behaviours that we have learned as a result of coming through the hardship and pain that life lessons have taught us.

Some compassion please. We've been there, I lost the man I thought I loved. Overnight he became a man I didn't recognise. Looked the same, but not the same. I could not think clearly. I took a lot of support from this network at the time from people who understood where I was at and helped me through it.

I would have given anything to know the truth. Instinctively I knew I was being lied to. But I didn't want to believe it.

I wanted evidence before I broke my marriage and changed the lives of my children forever. And now it seems for OP, the worst has happened. The truth is no longer a suspicion.

Surely our place here is to coach and support and use our 'experience' to help OP come to the same position of strength that those who have been though it have hopefully achieved.

Not to wave it in their face and dictate rational behaviours of those who have come out the other side. OP needs support and encouragement to start the long and painful process of separation as a result of breaches in trust and fidelity.

On the subject of physical confirmation.

Is it not obvious and a common fact of life, that the socially dysfunctional, weak, insecure and dishonest, use mobile technology,
the internet and social media to build emotional attachments with other people that give them assurance, confirmation and approval to continue their self indulgent betrayal?

Also, that this is no less a breach of trust than a physical encounter?

Self indulgent, assurance/pleasure seeking, weak willed people that we mistakenly thought were the man/woman of our dreams?

Why should we assume for one moment that others just waking up to this reality have all of our wisdom, reason and answers on how to come to terms with it?

Come on team mumsnet, lets stop talking about ourselves and engage with OP in a constructive way to support her through something painful, scary and heartbreaking.

OP, I will message you.

hadn't noticed anyone dictating from on high confused

some said go ask him, check his reaction and that is what the OP did in the end. and she found out that he is back at his old habits and worse as he knows and sees these women (and let's face it that means he has been at least 'flirting' face to face too and having little meet ups).

OP - how are you doing now? any thoughts on what you want to do or what you want to happen next?

Buttercup4 Tue 23-Jul-13 22:58:57

I agree swallowedAFly ... janeplane what posts did you think were like that?

Houmous, I think you were very brave to confront him, it took me months to do the same. I hope you and your DC are ok.

janeplane Tue 23-Jul-13 23:56:14

"it mystifies me how people can sit and eat together, lay down and sleep in the same bed nightly and share the raising of children and not be able to just have an upfront discussion"

"I often wonder how people are married and have kids with people who they then can't be upfront with"

Enjoy your self righteous bubbles

For the rest of us, we will live in the real world.

blueshoes Wed 24-Jul-13 00:14:44

Agree with you, janeplane

SunshineBossaNova Wed 24-Jul-13 01:17:26

Someone very close to me has been going through something very similar this week. Good luck OP x

libertine73 Wed 24-Jul-13 01:31:08

hey op, how are you doing? did you get a reply from the woman you messaged?

houmousandcarrotsandwich Wed 24-Jul-13 06:43:23

(Prepares for an ear bashing)...
He's still here.

Talked alot last night. He swears it was nothing more, says why would he want more when he's got more at home etc

I'm willing to try and make things work, to give him another chance. But I have said there are absolutely no more chances. By giving him this final chance, I can justify to my kids I gave him a chance to make our family work.

We are making a conscious effort to have more couple time.

I have booked an sti check for me.

Thank you for all your support, some of you have the most awful stories of betrayal.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Wed 24-Jul-13 06:58:16

I also ment to say I'm glad it's out in the open. I feel much less coiled up inside.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Wed 24-Jul-13 06:59:33

I also ment to say I'm glad it's out in the open. I feel much less coiled up inside.

Ow never replied, probably best

Mixxy Wed 24-Jul-13 07:21:27

Nobody is going to bash you! But shouldn't it be him that goes for the STI check? Why shoukd you have something shoved up your fanjo when it is he who broke the trust. A littke umbrella up his knob is a small token for trust breaking.

Good luck with it. Please update on how it goes.

DfanjoUnchained Wed 24-Jul-13 07:24:19

Good luck op, I hope things work out. He has to be very open with you now, with phone and emails etc

ofmiceandmen Wed 24-Jul-13 07:34:10

He's good, oh man he's good.
If he can bat off emotional affairs with the "why would he want more when he's got more at home" line and get away with it - he really should be playing at Lords.
I'm glad you've been able to forgive OP. just understand what it is you have forgiven.
I'm actually all for reconciliation so wish you the best of luck.

ofmiceandmen Wed 24-Jul-13 07:44:07

PS... Please don't now start trying to compete or be better than x or y text OW. If you're making more time to be a couple it needs to be both making the effort. you have DC and unless he was doing a lions share of the work i can't see how you can make more time from what's already there.
If he needs you to be more fun, more bubbly more whatever, he needs to give yo the extra time by taking the extra work load. then maybe he won't have time for texting so much.

You set the ground rules. but work together as a team. ok enough rambling - good luck.
(couldn't sit here twiddling my thumbs waiting for the likes of Cogito, Dahlen or Lweji to finally catch wind of this or and of course AF haha and all the wonderful women and men on this site grin )

that quote was from me btw not ledkr who you directed your other post at and it wasn't dictating or being self righteous but honest. it DOES mystify me how someone can live like that and tolerate the level of psychic stress and anxiety and eventually utter numbness that it must cause or as the OP has just put it, paraphrasing, feeling so coiled up inside. that isn't me being self righteous whilst the other is living in reality - that's me saying strive for reality and facing it because the alternative is soul destroying.

it mystifies how anyone can tolerate such awful worries, concerns and fears in silence whilst going through the motions of normality with the person right there beside them in bed or at the dinner table without feeling safe enough or important enough maybe to voice it and get it dealt with. not because i'm looking down from on high but because when i empathise with that situation i know i would find it intolerable - literally crazymaking.

back to houmous i am so not here to bash you! what i would say is if you want to give it another chance then words isn't enough is it? two conversations and it's all back under the rug? a) he needs to go for the sti check not you as you haven't put yourself at risk - he has and even if you're clear it might just be that he has something that he hasn't passed to you yet or hasn't developed in him enough to have become contagious yet etc and b) what is going to change him? the fear of losing you? because that was there last time and didn't stop him so what is the actual plan for change? i would have thought him agreeing to go for counselling and address why he behaves like this would be a step in the right direction as well as agreeing to talk about stuff up front from now on and have strategies.

so not going to bash you for wanting to give your marriage a try but if that is the way forward for you it needs more than cross fingers and wait and wonder if you'll ever catch him again or he'll just do it all from work on a payg mobile now. he needs to address and change his behaviour and you need proof he's doing that.

Ledkr Wed 24-Jul-13 07:46:31

You do what you want op. none if us have to live your life or know the whole story.
Of course you want to give it your best shot and hopefully it will work out.
If not we are all still here. Good luck.

changeforthebetter Wed 24-Jul-13 07:51:55

Umm, you were grief-stricken and he needed to have Internet sex to cope.............sad This is a grown man, right? I wish you lots of luck and strength, sweetie. I don't think you were "weak" either - you needed support after the loss of your Dad. Calling your H a worm seems like an insult to worms!

Good luck op, he seems to have got you to ignore his behavior around these other women.
That's very clever.
Please be careful, I don't doubt he'll go into work and tell them they need to be a bit more discrete for a bit.

MadAboutHotChoc Wed 24-Jul-13 08:10:03

Have just posted this link elsewhere and will post it here

Good luck.

blueshoes Wed 24-Jul-13 08:11:00

OP, your dh is good at minimising and somehow making you feel like it is your fault. This must feel like deja vu to you.

Sorry it is not an easy time for you but just be aware the leopard has not changed his spots from just after you got married.

Buttercup4 Wed 24-Jul-13 08:22:00

An ok janeplane I see what you meant! Your post makes sense now. smile

OP, no one else is living your life and I wouldn't judge you for any decisions you make. When my DH cheated on me, it was horrible. He slept with a random woman and his ex and had told his ex some very very personal things about me and my past. I forgave him because it felt like the right thing for me to do. I didn't ask him to move out, I wanted him there so we could work through our problems. Yes, it was a difficult few months and I'm sure some people would think I was mad for forgiving him, however, I did what I thought was the right thing because I was the one who was living with the consequences! We are in a much better place now and very very few people know about his infidelity.

My advice to you would be to keep who you talk to about this restricted to friends and family you can trust not to judge you and those who won't throw your decisions back in your face.

Fairenuff Wed 24-Jul-13 10:25:34

I have booked an sti check for me

And has he booked one for himself? The very least he could do. You know, to show you that he takes you seriously, respects you, is trying to work the relationship/

If not it's all just words and will come back to haunt you.

But, good luck.

libertine73 Wed 24-Jul-13 10:28:21

Morning op. I'm glad you feel better, you know where we are. Good luck love.

Jan45 Wed 24-Jul-13 15:11:39

Why are you talking STI checks if he hasn't had sex with anyone or have I missed something? Of course it's your decision but sounds like he's had a slap on the wrist and that's been it, no bad for him, meanwhile you wallow in uncertainty and images of him with other women, great.

Sorry to sound harsh but if you give him the green light so easily you are effectively telling him what he did is ok, good chance he'll do it again.

I really hope I am wrong and he is going to pull out all the stops to show you that he does love you cos his actions say otherwise.

How did he explain those drunken nights out with women that he told you were just with the lads?

practicality Wed 24-Jul-13 20:54:30

Oh dear.

TalkativeJim Thu 25-Jul-13 13:09:59

Um, no point in you taking STI checks unless he does. He may have something he hasn't given you yet. He's the dirty little shit you need to know is clean.

Not much more to say really, it's pretty much the script playing out.

The real point is, he does this. He thinks it's ok.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Fri 26-Jul-13 06:53:28

Sorry not been back for a few days, have been working.
We are still working together and at this moment in time looks like it can move on.

The sti test I booked before I told him I knew. I saw it as another way of gathering evidence. Up until a week we were having sex, so wouldn't something show?

I haven't told anyone in rl, I feel ashamed.

I did snoop on the phone the other day & saw the messages when he told her I knew and packed his bag. She said that nothing had gone on and was sorry, after reading over the texts could see how it would look, then said she was deleting his number. So all appears accurate, of course there's always a chance this could have been staged for my benefit.

Of course I have the issue of them working at the same place (different departments), but can't beat myself up over what I can't control.

Will this happen again? I don't know but if my experience has taught me anything, the truth presents itself. Bith times I have never been looking for evidence, I've just come across it.

Thank you all again for taking the time to hold my hand through a pretty tough week

Cabrinha Fri 26-Jul-13 07:33:02

And you're happy to sit around waiting for the truth to present itself again, inevitably?
Took 4 years for my truth to come up again, despite me actually looking. 4 years of a shit marriage affect

Cabrinha Fri 26-Jul-13 07:34:17

affecting me.
Good luck with the miserable half life you're choosing to lead from now on.

thing is the evidence just presenting itself is only the bits you happened to spot. possibly it presents itself because it's going on continuously and sooner or later you're bound to spot something.

anyway, good luck to you x

Ledkr Fri 26-Jul-13 07:57:21

cabrinha is there really any need for that?
By your own admittance you waited 4 yrs in an u happy situation as do many of us.
People leave when they are ready and the op doesn't need any more nastiness from us.
Sounds as if you still have some stuff of your own to work through.

agreed. seems a bit hypocritical to say the least the slate somebody for doing something you yourself did.

i got accused of being harsh earlier for saying i couldn't imagine being able to put up this but it's because actually i really can't imagine putting up with this. you can not only imagine it but did it yourself so surely there's some empathy there?

Jan45 Fri 26-Jul-13 11:09:38

Remember folks all we can do is imagine what we would do, when you're actually in the situation it's quite often a different story.

Good luck OP, at least it sounds like you're both making ground.

Ledkr Fri 26-Jul-13 13:42:02

I don't have to imagine but can remember not acting or thinking as I always thought I would!!
We all do things in our own time op.

Zynzong Fri 26-Jul-13 13:52:17

He has two women, you refer to one woman who has a baby less than a year old and the other woman as being a single parent, so basically, he's got two women lined up???? [shocked] but he's brokering it all, spinning it all, minimising it all................ nothing happened hmm Lining TWO women up really shows his next intentions.

Zynzong Fri 26-Jul-13 14:02:29

Op, I spent about four years feeling "I deserve more than this" (for different reasons) but I was paralysed and didn't actually leave. So, nobody who's left a marriage expects you to pack his bags the first instant he gets a text from a female you don't know about! But all of the new information and the new clearer way of interpreting it will be chipping away at your denial, I hope. I think we steep ourselves in denial because we all fear change so much.

You say you are afraid of being a single mum. Well, it's a bit adjustment alright, but what I would advise you to do is to really look into being a single mum. The logistics. The practicalities. What forms to download. What FIS you would be entitled to. What childcare arrangements you could make. Would you move, would he move, calculate maintenance on the online calculator.

This is boring bureaucracy, and it make take a week to get through it all, or more. But you know what, if you have it in your head that actually, maybe, maybe if it comes down to it, and if it's the choice you make then yes you bloody well will get through it and get through it happy, then it will give you a bit more power in your discussions wth him.

I always think that in negotiations with men who cheat/want to cheat, if they know that your bottom line is that you're afraid to end the marriage because you fear being single more than you fear having a cheating husband then you just have nowhere to go.............

so do some research, just to bolster yourself up. You could if you needed to, be a single mother. That's not the same as saying LTB. Just believe it. You could do it. And it would not kill you. Just make sure that you believe that when you are demanding more respect from him. If you don't believe that then it's unlikely that he will give you the respect you deserve.

AnyFucker Fri 26-Jul-13 14:17:34

OP, please stop for just a moment and examine the actual point he had brought you to

You (jokingly?) considered telling both of these women about each other hmm

Do you consider yourself to have any agency in this relationship at all ? This isn't going to work, I am sorry.

schmarn Fri 26-Jul-13 14:37:55

I guess there is a 0.01% chance that the OP has had the whole story.

What is clear however is that her husband is in complete control of this situation. "They" are going to work on their relationship (because no doubt the OP's lack of attentiveness caused him to seek attention elsewhere), the OP is going to have a STI check because it's her fault for having sex with him while he potentially was having sex with other women, and he will continue to see the OW every day at work.

On the basis that leaving him is not something the OP wishes to contemplate, how about HE goes for a STI check and take the OP along to receive the results. If he hasn't had sex with anyone else, he ought to be profoundly relaxed about doing so. If he breaks into a cold sweat and makes excuses, you'll know the truth.

AnyFucker Fri 26-Jul-13 16:59:46

...and again, sadly, the duplicitous and disrespectful partner gets rewarded with more attentiveness, more "couple time", more childfree fun, an insecure and sexually-competitive partner and, of course, one who doesn't dare to rock the boat in case he decides the grass really is greener elsewhere

this is called "working on the relationship" in some quarters, and massively pushed by this society that pushes the idea that women have to do all the "work" required to keep partnerships together

a sorry state indeed

RinseAndRepeat Fri 26-Jul-13 18:29:45

Completely agree with anyfucker.

He's been inappropriately texting TWO women, and now you're going to reward him by 'working on your relationship'*

Yeah, he's surely going to learn his lesson that way.

*Giving him loads of sex and spending loads of time with him to take his mind off other women.

Zynzong Fri 26-Jul-13 18:59:31

Anyfucker, totally agree with you....

OP, I have the t-shirt and I got the stripes when I left. I learnt all the lessons in hindsight.

If he has no fear of losing you then he won't suddenly start to value you.

If he can behave how he likes and be rewarded with as AF says a sexually competitive wife and more childfree time then the message there is that you fear losing him, not that he ought to value you more. What 'work' is he doing ?

As I suggested earlier, bolster your confidence by just researching the practicalities of becoming a single parent. Just for your own self-esteem and your own sanity. Imagine what you would do if it came to that. You can do all of this research and fact finding and form downloading and google-searching now. It make take a week but at the end of it, your conclusion will be that you could if you had to be a single mother. And the moment you believe that, really truly believe it, that is the moment that your marriage can change. Until you realise and believe that you could if you decided to, end the relationship, then you have absolutely no power to change anything.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Sat 27-Jul-13 08:37:08

I hate to admit it, but your right af.

No excuses except I'm weak.

Have started looking into single parenting.

Had a look at his phone earlier (can't believe I've become this person who checks her husbands phone), all messages from both ow have been deleted.

Also the one I messaged (she never responded) has leftFacebook.

Feeling down and exhausted today. Think it's just the week catching up with me.

Thanks all

Mixxy Sat 27-Jul-13 08:56:49

Aaah love, so sorry. Feel awful if you want. Weak is not a personality trait, it is how you feel right now.

You should not be the one feeling exhausted right now: he is. Should be licking your boots.

See how you feel after some sleep.


MargeSimpsonzzz Sat 27-Jul-13 10:58:12

You're not weak. You're facing uncertainty now, and change is scary. Even changes for the better, people can fear those, so it's human nature, not weakness. You don't know what's next and how to deal with that. But like you say, minimise your fears, control the uncertainty by looking into all the practicalities involved with being a single parent.

WhiteBirdBlueSky Sat 27-Jul-13 11:15:27

It does seem likely he will do something similar again.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Sat 27-Jul-13 18:47:52

Ok have done some research.

Looks like I can get discounted council tax but thats about it (as i work part time but dont pay any child care) the child maintenance calculator says about £100 a week from him.

Think I can afford to stay in house.
What happens to savings? I have contributed most of them (for example my inheritance), so not happy to split 50/50. Same goes for house. Guess if we can't agree then it goes through mediation?

As far as divorce goes, how do I prove adultery? Unless he admits it, I can't see my photos of the texts on his phone will be good enough.
Also have I heard sone where you have to name who he's been unfaithful with? I can do this but seems nasty.

Truth is though, I'm still scared shitless of being on my own

MadAboutHotChoc Sat 27-Jul-13 19:03:34

Some sols offer free first half hour consultations so I would put together a list of questions and make the rounds.

perfectstorm Sat 27-Jul-13 21:43:45

You don't need to divorce for adultery. You can cite unreasonable behaviour and use the evidence of probable infidelity as support for that. The grounds really don't matter and he can't challenge unreasonable behaviour as the standard is subjective anyway - it's whether the person seeking the divorce can cope with the behaviour, not whether a random person could.

I'd ask for a fixed-fee session with a decent solicitor to advise you pre-mediation, but if you have to home the kids then you will need a greater slice of the assets to do that with. Have you looked at child/working tax credits - if you use your savings to pay down the mortgage to a more reasonable level you presumably would be below the savings threshold, and perhaps entitled on that basis?

I'm so sorry that you've learned this about him. It's devastating. But life without the uncertainty and anxiety will be such a relief - and there are lovely, decent men out there as well. Ones who'd no more cheat as a lifestyle choice than they would fly.

you'll get child tax credits too and working tax credits if you work 16hrs a week or more and his maintenance won't get considered as part of your income so it will literally just be on your salary which unless you're a very lucky lady won't be high enough part time to disqualify you from tax credit help.

i don't know how many children you have or how much you earn so couldn't say how much it would be but you can use the online tax credit calculator to work that out by putting in your personal income last year and doing it all as if you were a single mum. bear in mind the amount it tells you will be for the rest of this tax year not a yearly amount - so the amount will be for what... 8months now so you can add another 50% on to get your actual yearly entitlement.

i do think it's a great idea to look into all this stuff and arm yourself - fear of the unknown is often far worse than the reality and at least knowing it all reassures you a bit that if you do decide or have to do this it will be manageable.

MadAboutHotChoc Sun 28-Jul-13 08:09:54

Google Olgaga's blog for info on finances after separation.

perfectstorm Sun 28-Jul-13 12:03:31

There's a tax credits entitlement calculator here.

I agree that it would amaze me if a single parent working part time wasn't entitled to help. Child maintenance is disregarded, as said, and having just had a check with that calculator it seems in tax credit terms so are savings. Housing benefit can be applied to the interest on a mortgage, too, if you don't have substantial savings.

hey - i have my final answer to this question having pondered.

good sex should take a lifetime in an ideal world but with plenty of breaks along the way.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Fri 02-Aug-13 12:11:25

I really wanted to end this thread on flys quote but thought you deserved an update.

Me and h seperated yesterday. I asked him to sort out sti test and he hadn't. This may sound a bit lame but I told him if he wanted to save our marriage he needed toddo what I asked of him. (I'd even left the local clinic info in ipad for him!)

Today is first day as a lone parent and it's been super s**t. Have no car (being fixed), friends are nowhere to be seen (holidays, plans, plus about to loose lots as aksi friends with h) and family are a joke to be honest (spoke to my mum yesterday who said I need to stop being dramatic and be a wife to my husband! ).
Have shouted at dc's when I probably shouldn't and finding it hard to keep them happy! (Plus ds, 3, keeps asking when daddy is coming home! ).
Hoping life improves, or I will be begging for him to come home :'(

myroomisatip Fri 02-Aug-13 12:28:12

I am sorry it got to this for you and I am sure it will get better.

I would give you a hand if you were nearer, I am at a loose end and about to take myself off for a Big Mac lol

Keep posting you will get lots of support. flowers and brew

houmousandcarrotsandwich Fri 02-Aug-13 12:34:44

Big Mac sounds good! grin

omg i'm so sorry - my post was meant for another thread entirely! i'm so sorry!

so he just totally refused to go and get an sti check even in the face of losing his marriage? shock

Jan45 Fri 02-Aug-13 12:59:56

It will be shit, probably for a little while, please don't take him back before even give yourself the opportunity to shine, I am sure you will cope but it will take a's also a shame your support network doesn't seem to be there, as has been said, keep posting, we're always here!

Well done for having the clarity to realise what you want out of life.

It will be shit for a while but you have your self respect and your dignity and you are being a great mum to your children at a very difficult time. Pamper both yourself and them and always remember that this has come about due to the choices he made.

He chose to betray you the first time because your dad died (WTF???) and then because you were not showing him enough attention, having enough couple time together (again WTF????), no, really he is a duplicitous, lying, cheating shitbag - for that there is no excuse.

I hope things start looking up for you.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Fri 02-Aug-13 14:07:09

Thanks guys!

He said he would do sti test, was adamant he'd pass, but never sorted out the test (?!)

To be fair to my friends, closest are on hols or at work today. Family, well, I don't think they will ever change (my sister has text me, having spoken to my mum, saying I really need to think about what I'm doing! )

Youngest has just had a 2 hour nap, allowing mummy and her brother to have a fun leisurely lunch (she's just scored some major Brownie points!!)

Thanks for all your support x

Lostinspace1 Fri 02-Aug-13 14:44:30

Hugs to you Houmous!!

If its any consolation I could well be you in a couple of years - 2 years into my relationship I discovered my boyfriend had registered on a dating website. Years later I only clocked that he had basically done this with all the girls he had been with. He said at the time it was because of all the stress of his dying uncle! I haven't married him and we have strictly kept our finances apart as I will always doubt him a bit after that. But now I'm pregnant 8 years later. There is a part of me that wants to be free of the constant niggling doubt and be a single mum so don't be sad being alone - it should be incredibly liberating for you once you get over the bumpy/change bit. I think you've definitely done the right thing.

Well I'm glad he's out.
Sorry, but what he's done is not OK and you've seen that now so that's good.
You deserve so much more.
It will be totally crap for a while. But it will get better.
Take each hour/day at a time and you'll get there.
Be good to yourself though. You need to look after you and your kids now.
Good luck with everything.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Sat 03-Aug-13 18:16:56

Oh lostinspace I hope for you and baby that you don't have to go through this. Good luck with baby x

perfectstorm Sat 03-Aug-13 18:22:18

So sorry, OP. It's heartbreaking. I send you lots of love and supportive good wishes; I'm sure a lot of MN do. It is nice, though, to read a woman who is actually standing up to this BS. So many (I've been there, so not judging) can't bring themselves to end it when treated so badly.

perfectstorm Sat 03-Aug-13 18:23:13

lostinspace I missed your post - so hope things all work out for you.

So sorry your Mum and sister aren't standing up for you. That is bloody mean. They would rather you stay with a cheating arse and catch a disease? Shame on them.
Stay strong you can do this.

onefewernow Sun 04-Aug-13 08:37:02

OP it's always tough at first. You were strong enough to boot him out- you'll be ok .

Make some plans for the summer. Maybe go back to counselling. Ignore your family.

That man was never going to change. But one fray you will no doubt meet one who would never be such a weak minded, self centred twat. As long as you do the work on yourself as to why you stayed the first time.

Read the chumplady website too. All if it.

Weak me. Who do t take full responsibility don't change, or not much. He was treating you like his mother and himself a naughty boy, without really caring for your feelings in this.

And so I think those last texts were a set up.

onefewernow Sun 04-Aug-13 08:38:30

Weak men ! And one day not fray.

it is gonna be tough with your family joining in with the gaslighting (in this case it being making you feel your emotions and response are irrational and silly and you are over reacting when actually you're not but that will be hard to hold onto with everyone minimising and pressuring you to deny your own reality).

i'm not convinced you are even starting from a position of believing your own feelings and hunches about all this which i suspect will make it more than tough and damn near impossible.

if you're serious about wanting to move forward (in whatever direction) rather than just go for an ostrich impression then i reckon you need to go and have some counselling and have someone neutral and outside of the whole family dynamic to talk things through with.

would you consider it?

houmousandcarrotsandwich Thu 05-Dec-13 07:57:47

Re Lighting this thread, rather then having to tell the whole sorry tale again!, now be warned this could be long...

So I took him back..
I was pressured by my family (and of course him). Neither of us went for sti testing.
For a while all was good, improving (head in sand, I know!)
Starting getting depressed again (have history of this) back on antidepressants and they have really helped. I'm looking after myself much better, enjoying my DCs more. Not sure if if it's the meds but I removed head from sand and thought I need to deal with this once and for all. Started by looking at his emails. Found he had been sent some naked pictures from a lady (sent from an iPhone with a normal email adress, so not some spammy porn site) and some emails between them a little flirty nothing more. But this was happening while I was out for a meal with my mum.

So I went for an sti test just over a week ago (no results yet)
I got hold of the phone overnight a few days later. He deletes EVERYTHING! But thanks to the wonder of spotlight search, I found more evidence (I'll give you the edited version or we will be here all day) There was talk with the previous woman about christening his new car, evidence they met up to go the cinema (and said they prob wouldn't see much of the film) and her mentioning it had been going on for over a year. He had also sent her a picture of our newborn DD sad
Also lots of messages to numbers (no names), which show arranging meeting up, including asking if she wanted his wedding ring on or off? (which she said it wasn't his wedding ring she would be looking at).with one he was asked why he stayed with me and he said for the kids and money reasons.
Unfortunately with spotlight I don't know when these messages were sent (before or after last time I found out) or who said what.

Last night I also found him on a dating website. Not much on there but his profile pic is a selfie is taken in our bedroom and you can see the canvas of DS as a baby in the background sad

So that's it, I'm done. I'm kicking his lying, cheating arse out (I don't care if it is nearly Christmas). I'm almost looking forward to it.

My plan is to get sti results first (may aswell have all my evidence) and also I'm working this weekend (my only shift this month) and I will be needing the money come January, so I may aswell hold fire (I will be sleeping at work, only home for a few hours each day).

Hope to have results By Monday/Tuesday, then I'm doing it.
Was thin king of saying I've had the results and I'm now going to ask him one last time if he's slept with anyone else.... (what do you think?)
I almost want sti results to show something, but think I will bluff even if they don't ?

Any advice/hand holding is so appreciated as I haven't told anyone in RL x

Longdistance Thu 05-Dec-13 08:13:36

I hope the test comes back negative, as you really don't want to have to deal with an sti.

I'm all for lying to him, saying you have something like chlamydia, and then he'll have to afmit it. You'll have all the evidence anyway.

I still don't understand the pressure your ds and dm put on you to stay with him. What's all that about?

Good luck with the results.

MistAllChuckingFrighty Thu 05-Dec-13 08:18:27

Just handholding. You are completely doing the right thing.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Thu 05-Dec-13 08:22:50

I think my mum is a real stick head in sand type. Also my dad died not that long after we married and I wonder if she sees it as his like last golden moment and he gave H his blessing etc (dad died suddenly so I think mum also felt me and sis were being cared for during our grieving... Ha!).
As for my sister, we are not very close and she is a real judging person. When we initially split she said "you don't want to end up like one of 'those' people ok Jeremy Kyle". Basically in her eyes if you don't follow the script (get married, have kids and live happily ever after) your odd.

Now, I don't care if I haven't got their support. It's MY family (DS & DD) that I'm looking out for. I'm their example and I would be pissed at anyone who treated them the way H has treated me. I'm teaching them that being a doormat is not acceptable.

I seem to obsess about - getting evidence. I think it's because I kept not wanting it to be true. Also he cannot argue with fact. Any ideas how I can get more evidence?!

doodahwhatsit Thu 05-Dec-13 08:25:41

good luck thanks

remember in the coming weeks he is the one that broke this relationship by his actions - not you by refusing to put up with it

custardo Thu 05-Dec-13 08:27:53

crikey, you have been through it haven't you?! I wouldn't wait for STI check in your shoes tbh, you have more than enough evidence

I'd kick him out NOW. It makes no difference to wait until the test results anymore. I'm sorry OP.

ColinButterfly Thu 05-Dec-13 08:41:38

If you're going to lie, you could always say you had them back anyway.

What a shit (the selfie with DS in the background and pictures of the newborn. Nice touch). I hope this gives you the resolve now. Sending strength to get you through. Throw his sorry arse out.

myroomisatip Thu 05-Dec-13 08:48:22

You have been asking about getting more evidence all the way through your thread, but really, you have enough to have reached the end of your tether and I doubt if you will find more. You have enough.

You mentioned your inheritance. I would suggest you make that safe before you do anything else. I do not know if he would be legally entitled to that if you divorce, but I would make sure that in the meantime, he had no access to it.

Have you seen a solicitor yet?

jayho Thu 05-Dec-13 08:52:59

Sod evidence, gather up the shreds of your dignity and get out!

houmousandcarrotsandwich Thu 05-Dec-13 09:06:09

Don't worry he will be going!
I decided if I hadn't had results by now, I would wait until after the weekend, or I would have no childcare when I work this weekend. I don't want to mess work around at the last minute (I'm the only one on call) and as this is my only shift this month, I will only get paid if I work IYSWIM

I'm freezing our joint savings later. Have told him I need to do it for my tax return to show a frozen tax paid figure (he's not clever enough to argue with that as he doesn't have to do a tax return)

Have got all my forms ready to apply for tax credits and council tax reductions.

Have spoke to CAB and that's all I can really do for now. My solicitors are pretty good and have dealt with my inheritance and house purchase so they have all my stuff on file. CAB have warned me he has every right to apply for 1/2 of everything in divorce as we had no pre nup. But under the circumstances the courts would hopefully be more in my favour. Let's just say, he's done very well for himself just by being married to me already!

But I know I will survive. If I have to sell up and move on I will. If I have to work 10 jobs, I will. I am going to bring my kids up knowing that there is so much more to life then money and materialistic stuff.

Thanks for all the hand holding x

houmousandcarrotsandwich Thu 05-Dec-13 09:13:35

Also just wanted to say, if any of you poor souls end up in my situation, I can't recommend the Chumplady website enough. It's FANTASTiC!
Some of the one liners are brilliant, my personal favourite being "you cannot have all the benefits of marriage and have a side dish of fuck because you aren't 'happy' " smile

YouKnowOfTheCrunch Thu 05-Dec-13 10:00:51

Houmous, there's no shame whatsoever in giving it another go. Had he been a decent bloke who had let a bit of texting get out of hand (which is what you were led to believe) been true it could have been the right decision. Unfortunately he was lying, has never stopped lying and WILL never stop lying.

It's hard dealing with a liar when you are honest, you want to believe them. That's why you wanted proof. Well now you have the proof with a cherry on top. Well done you for being decisive and choosing to give your dcs a mum who is strong and independent.

Just wanted to say how impressive you are smile

houmousandcarrotsandwich Thu 05-Dec-13 11:06:18

Thanks YouKnowOfTheCrunch not feeling too impressive right now!

Mumsnet has been a lifesaver through this. I keep my dirty laundry out of my friendships in RL (although once he's out the world will know he's a super twat this time, no keeping it a secret). It's given me a place to talk to non judgementals whonhave walked in my shoes.

You guys are the best hand holders a 30 something soon to be single mum of 2 could ask for thanks

Youknowofthecrunch Thu 05-Dec-13 11:28:58

Well you are impressive.

Speaking as the 30 something with 3 dcs who left her "catch" over 2 years ago now, it's hard, but it gets easier.

And now my life has never been better and the dcs are so happy and settled.

Mumsnet is amazing for support, it really is.

But you're the one doing the hard bit. So you are most impressive smile

bluebirdwsm Thu 05-Dec-13 14:03:52

houmous I've read the whole thread and am so glad you are going to get rid. You have more than enough [unsavoury and shabby] evidence.

He is not going to change - ever. You are absolutely doing the right thing. When he is gone you will feel relief at not having to live with someone betraying you, without having to constantly check up on emails and texts etc.

You will be able to walk down the road, with dignity, knowing no one's fucking up your head, respecting yourself, knowing you are an excellent mum...knowing you are no longer controlled by lies, and be proud of having a backbone. You will have more peace of mind, less stress, more self respect, a higher self esteem.

I've done it, a long time ago. I thought 'what is the point of being with someone who does not want you'? No one can change anyone who is basically a cheat and a liar. Me and sons went on to be a strong family unit, and to this day they are my best friends...priceless.

My family also didn't get it, but they had no self awareness whatsoever and in each case were in dysfunctional relationships that they chose not to face up to. It's tough without family support but you are [will be] the the master of your ship and to live your life and have a good life with your DC. You'll be fine. Good luck.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Thu 05-Dec-13 15:56:46

Thanks, just read my last post. Sounds like I've had a few wine !!!

I will keep you all posted, as I know it's nice to know how it all 'goes' once you've gotten involved in a thread.

babycow38 Fri 06-Dec-13 18:46:20

Houmous, i so feel for you, this was me just 8 short weeks ago, found a hotel booking for him and his OW when he told me he was on a boys night out, i screamed, shouted, did everything wrong, my girls had to listen to it, BUT i moved out ,have a lovely rented house, Christmas will not be the same for me,but WILL be for my DD, we have our tree up, going to xmas fairs, i will keep faking it tiill i make it basically, you just get through just get your strength from knowing you are a fabulous Mum and giving up isnt an option, i got through by KNOWING im a kind, beautiful person who would never have behaved like him, it still hurts, its baby steps with that one, but from one who knows, it DOES get betterxxx

boomoohoo Fri 06-Dec-13 20:39:08

houmous ive just read your thread, and want to congratulate you on the beginning of your new life without an arsehole in it!! I have been a single parent and it is hard, but it is definitely easier than being in a crap relationship with no trust or respect.

I'm sorry to hear you haven't got the support of your family, but come back here and keep posting for support. Youre life will be initially hard and stressful, but that will get easier and be very very worth it in the long run. Well done for doing the right thing for yourself and your kids.

wine x

houmousandcarrotsandwich Sat 07-Dec-13 15:11:27

Thanks again every one for the support.

Still no sti results, really hope I get them monday, so this can all be over.

I do have to stop myself smiling when he says something about next week and I am thinking "you ain't gonna be here so don't worry! "

Works not as busy as i hoped to keep my mind off it. And today would have been my dads birthday, so have had a 'moment' or two sad

Keep you posted x

CarryOnDancing Sat 07-Dec-13 19:27:08

I have just caught up and read the whole thread. I can't tell you how happy I am to get to this point and know that a happy ending is on the horizon for you.
I doubt it will feel that way at first, especially when you have to listen to his lies and cover ups when you confront him and throw him out.

I hope you are starting to feel liberated at the prospect of life without lies though. Keep hold of that, regardless of what he says or does.

I'm so pleased I got to witness the start of your new life. I'm sorry you've had to put up with all this but comparing your old and new posts shows just how much stronger you are. You are the one in control now! All the very best to you and your new smaller, but honest and happier family!

cjel Sat 07-Dec-13 21:19:05

Houmous, Hope that you have support in RL and you are looking after yourself. You are doing everything you can for you and your dcs to have the life you should.xx

SimplyTes Sat 07-Dec-13 21:26:46

HandC just read your thread, you are incredible and sound so together. You actually sound invigorated by the future, have a feeling it is going to be very bright. Tes x

bubalou Sat 07-Dec-13 21:30:29

I hope it's innocent.

However 80% of women that suspect their husbands of cheating are correct!!!

The statistic men don't want us to know so they can call us crazy and paranoid! shock

headlesslambrini Sat 07-Dec-13 21:51:20

really hope it works out for you. there are some fabulous people on here for support

Makeminealarge Sat 07-Dec-13 21:51:26

Just read thus thread. my god you are amazing. I would love to see his face when the bomb hits. you and your children deserve a better future and by sounds of it you are gearing up for a happier one. All the best to you, will be thinking of you x

JRmumma Sat 07-Dec-13 21:56:57

Just read this through and just want to say, what a bastard! And good for you for getting rid. I hope in time you meet a real man who treats you and your children with respect.

Wouldn't mind being a fly on the wall when you kick him out, he is going to get the shock of his life. Please please please think of some really nasty things to say to him but deliver in a composed way and don't take any of his shit.

Hope he doesn't get 50% of everything in your divorce, he deserves nothing.

bubalou Sat 07-Dec-13 22:21:11

Sorry just read the whole thread.

Humous you are amazing.

Take a deep breath when you are ready, do not scream. Do not about and very calmly - let the fucker have it!!!!!

You are so strong, you and your children will be just fine and I'm certain a year from now you will be on here saying how great life is now you aren't with that useless fuckwad that doesn't deserve you.


SoleSorceress Sat 07-Dec-13 23:01:23

You are fab Humous and a brilliant Mother x

houmousandcarrotsandwich Sat 07-Dec-13 23:56:51

You guys are all so great!!

SimplyTes your right I think I do feel invigorated!
And all of you who have said this is my new exciting chapter, I really hope it is! !!

Just been on my work Xmas do (without H, as hes babysitting) and dont feel lost without him by my side.
Didn't share the story with any work mates, but was nice to have some time out from it all (not even drinking as on call)

I will tell you all about when I hit him with it!

Thanks again x

HaroldTheGoat Sun 08-Dec-13 00:08:39

He's a piece of work isn't he. Good luck houmous, you sound very strong and you are doing brilliantly.

cjel Sun 08-Dec-13 00:09:16

glad you had a good eveningx

notonmyplanet Sun 08-Dec-13 11:09:38

Just read the thread from start to finish, and de-lurking to wish you all the luck in the world houmous x

bragmatic Sun 08-Dec-13 11:51:15

Good luck. Go as quick as you can with any settlement while he's still in shock and feeling guilt. Prick.

Mum2Fergus Sun 08-Dec-13 18:39:30

Good luck OP...

Clargo55 Sun 08-Dec-13 19:27:08

You are amazing, stay strong. You and DC deserve so much more than him.

Well bloody done, houmous :D

houmousandcarrotsandwich Mon 09-Dec-13 10:02:20

COME ON bloody results!
It's been 12 days (can take up to 14), I just need this final piece of info then I can just do this.

Tired today after a busy day at work yesterday (spoke to soon on Saturday!). Found myself doubting I'd do it last night, but I think that was just the tiredness talking.

Have just written an agreement up for him to sign. I know this holds no legal weight (but I doubt he would know that!), but does say what day he moved out (and why "unreasonable behaviour with other women whilst married"), that I continue to care for the kids and access is only by prior arrangement with me. Also said a figure for child maintenance is to be agreed.

Thanks again to all mums netters helping me through x

You have shown an amazing steely instinct for putting your DC and (finally) yourself first. I wish you all the luck in the world x

bluestar2 Mon 09-Dec-13 10:34:17

Good luck for your test results and for dealing with you dh and getting him out. You can do this!

working3jobs Mon 09-Dec-13 11:30:16

loved your post saying how you can't let your DCs grow up thinking the OH treatment of you is acceptable.That is truly a brilliant gift you are giving them, not to let anyone belittle/disrespect them.
they are very lucky to have a mum like you.
keep strong, you will be fine. my family sound a lot like yours sad
I have now been a single mum 8 years, it is hard,no doubt.But I have such peace now.
good luck, keep posting.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Mon 09-Dec-13 14:42:00

Just spoke to sti clinic, no results until Wednesday sad

Then this morning I've had work on my case, as a client made a complaint about me (unjustified in my opinion). Bosses not really defending me either. No doubting myself over it. It's nothing major and I would normally just brush it off (basically I couldn't contact the person, but they are saying I didn't even try!)

I think it's just exhausting me. Been really tearful. Had a nap earlier while DD did, hopefully after an early night I'll feel better.

Maybe it's for the best I didn't get results today, I need to be firing on all cylinders when I chuck him out.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Tue 10-Dec-13 11:11:25

Just got text from sti clinic "the results of your tests are ok"

I've been doubting myself all morning. Things are good between us at the moment (although I'm holding a lot back from him), Christmas is just over 2 weeks away. Because I'm checking his emails I've seen he's buying me presents (not that it's a reason to stay but shows he cares) and my kids are so happy.
I've not written a single Christmas card or got him anything as I thought he'd be gone but I not sure I can do it now. After all, I've no concrete evidence as sti clear.
Can I really rock the boat right now?
I've kept it in for this long, why not a few more weeks?
I'm a blubbering mess. Feel like I need abit more then my antidepressants this morning.

MissScatterbrain Tue 10-Dec-13 11:26:26

You must be relieved about the results.

As for the presents - he is really trying to manipulate you isn't he?

I would focus on yourself and stop thinking about him, what he is up to etc.

FauxFox Tue 10-Dec-13 11:59:06

He is not nice. He does not treat you with respect. If he was your DDs H and she stayed you would weep for her. He is making you depressed. You can't stay with him.

However, I get that the kids are oblivious, love their dad and it's nearly xmas. So tell him you are done. Tell him new year, new start. Let him stay until after xmas (spare room/sofa) and make plans for explaining together to the kids and for him to move out in Jan.

Surely he will put the kids first and agree if you make it clear this is a statement not a discussion?

houmousandcarrotsandwich Tue 10-Dec-13 13:33:34

Firstly sorry today is going to be lots of random rants, my mind is all over the place!

MissScarrerbrain I should be relieved about results. But I'm not, I wanted them to be my fact, my black and White, not this dark grey and cream.
Because I have no real proof he's dtd. I mean proof he arranged to meet women, but no proof they actually met (and had sex). With the original 'woman' I have quotes from text like
"if we go cinema will we see any of it tho?"
"yeah but it's abit awkward in a car.. Lol x "
"because then we can christen it ha ha x" "
"it's been nearly a year since I first kissed... " (couldn't get anymore as on spotlight search)
"where would you have your hands"
"but you would still shag me?"

There's lots of texts arranging to meet (with her and others) but none that say last night the sex was...

They are suggestive of, but don't confirm.

I'm starting to feel why should I have to 'put a face on' for Christmas. There has to be consequences for his actions, right?
I'm lucky the kids are really young. DD would notice if he was there or not and although DS loves him, he's very distracted by Xmas at the moment and we have a busy schedule of festive things without DH (toddler group Xmas parties, meeting with friends etc)
I mean why should I waste money on Christmas presents on that man? Come January when I'm on my own that money will be needed.

I think I will make the spare room up as back up.

I know he won't be back from work until after the kids are in bed, so I think I've at least got to get this out there

Back2Two Tue 10-Dec-13 13:39:29

Hi houmous
What is wrong with the proof that you have?
If my dh was texting someone else those texts (especially with a history of doing it before) that would be enough deceit, disloyalty and lack of respect for me.

I'm not saying it's easy houmous. Are you looking for concrete grounds for divorce? Might be wise I suppose.

Here's some strength for you .....cake
Make a list of all the things you have seen he is buying as presents and see if you get them all. Maybe he's choosing for someone else as well.
He's not faithful is he. Sorry x

BeCool Tue 10-Dec-13 13:49:02

Hummous you don't need "concrete evidence" - you've seen all the emails ans texts etc where he is hooking up with many other women.

You don't need to justify yourself to him defend yourself to him, explain yourself to him - you don't have to do any of that. It's over for you due to his constant and repeat philandering. Enough said.

Think of this - you enver even have to argue with him or confront him and listen to his lies, ever again.

When I ended with X I couldn't face a row (we'd had so many). I knew it was over and there was no negotiation to be done. I simply said," this relationship is over. You know why, I know why, there is nothing further to discuss and you need to move out.".
You could do that. Have a bag packed. He knows what he has done. You know some of what he has done. You don't need to prove anything to him - HE KNOWS.

I did it nearly a year ago. It's been a great year. Not without challenges but life is like that anyway. Living apart from a negative head fuck of a partner is pretty much totally awesome!!

You can do it - you've got it all in place. Keep going.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Tue 10-Dec-13 14:19:22

I've just opened the emails, as it hadn't occurred to me they weren't for me! But they are (unless his ow is my size and has my exact tastes, and I know the work one/s are young and slim!)

I don't intend on rowing. My plan is to say I've had the test results and I'm going to ask him one last time if he's slept with anyone else. I'm 80% sure he will deny, so I will hit back with the christening of cars, cinema meet ups etc.
I guess I need to accept at the very least it was EA. Which is enough isn't it! I mean I'm the one who should be getting naughty texts etc. I guess. Just see the insertion of dick the physical act of breaking my marriage.

Feeling such a fool.

MissScatterbrain Tue 10-Dec-13 14:32:51

You do not need "evidence". His disrespectful behaviour is enough for you to decide to end the marriage.

You can divorce on grounds of unreasonable behaviour anyway.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Tue 10-Dec-13 14:43:52

I know I can (have researched, cab etc) MissScatterbrain

I've just got my pretty butterfly top to wear for when he comes home and I tell him. Why you ask (apart from that I think I'm going crazy!), because 1 I want him to see me looking good as I end it, see what he's let go and 2 butterflies are a sign of new life.

The funny thing is, he always goes on about how I don't do confrontation. This is true, I hate disturbing the peace. But tonight I am going to be ms confrontation. The kids will be in bed, so no raised voices.

I cannot keep this in anymore, it's making me I'll and you know what, Im not the one whose done wrong in the first place. I (and the kids) are the victim, why should he walk around with his head held high.

I'm also bricking it at the same time!

TalkativeJim Tue 10-Dec-13 15:01:05

I'm glad you're still planning on ending it. None of the 'proof' stuff matters at all - to most people, those texts would be ample 'evidence' - bottom line, he's unfaithful, dishonest, awful.

All you would actually need to say is that you simply don't want to be married to someone who thinks it's ok to send stuff like that to other women. And shrug your shoulders. Let him start with his litany of excuses and justifications and 'ahh but you see I didn't ACTUALLY shag anyone, it was just BANTER blah blah' - and again, you just shrug and say fine, I don't want to be with someone who banters like that. I simply don't want you anymore, you know and I know that you are basically as bent as a three-pound note when it comes to fidelity and I simply don't want YOU anymore.

That's really, really enough. His behaviour makes you miserable, and you want to be happy instead, either alone or with someone who has the same ideas on fidelity as you.

It's all a game to him, you see. He KNOWS he's cheating!!! He's not stupid. It's a game when you catch him - can he get off on a technicality? Why don't you just cut through the crap and say - 'You're a problem. I don't want you anymore.'

good luck my love. Just that x

Joysmum Tue 10-Dec-13 17:24:23

This wouldn't need to be about whether he's slept with anyone else if this were my marriage.

Those in a marriage have the right to decide where their boundaries are and to expect their partner to remain within those boundaries, if they can't, they ARE being unfaithful and showing that their own wants are more important to them than their partners needs. If that's acceptable to them to do then how far over that boundary they go is only down to how far they are prepared to go and bares no relation to the needs of the partner that they've already trampled all over.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Tue 10-Dec-13 18:11:08

Well I've got to tell him I know now, have transferred a large amount of our joint savings into my current account (as it's mostly my contributions, and he's taken more out then put in). Won't go through until tomorrow, but he will see if he looks on his bank app on his phone.
Glad I did it though, it was surprisingly easy (just said it was for a house purchase), if he wanted to be nasty he could have done the same. My justification is I'm protecting what is mine (inheritance from my dad)

So in about an hour I am telling him. I can't tell you if he will still be here in the morning.

Will keep you posted x

cjel Tue 10-Dec-13 18:19:48


Mama1980 Tue 10-Dec-13 18:25:00

Good luck op x

Mum2Fergus Tue 10-Dec-13 18:35:17

Glad you got all clear H...will be thinking of you tonight x

Clargo55 Tue 10-Dec-13 18:38:46

Good luck, you can do this. Stay strong for yourself and DC.

somersethouse Tue 10-Dec-13 19:00:31

Good Luck OP. You are, without doubt, doing the right thing.

I am so pleased you have put measures in place to get back some of your inheritance. I don't need to tell you how bad it is he had access to that money and security and yet your poor DF's death and your sadness was his 'reason' that he first starting 'looking on line' Arse.

You sound amazing.

The sound of him makes my skin crawl. He will yours too, in a few months I would say. If not sooner.

MissScatterbrain Tue 10-Dec-13 19:04:11

Good luck Op.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Tue 10-Dec-13 19:07:32

Thanks all.

Kids in bed, smartened myself up and have evidence in hand waiting for him to walk through the door. ...

cjel Tue 10-Dec-13 19:12:05

what time is he due in?

houmousandcarrotsandwich Tue 10-Dec-13 19:16:36

Soon, should be next 10 mins but is often late

shoom Tue 10-Dec-13 19:32:04

All you need to say is that you want him out. He doesn't have to agree or admit anything. He's had all the control until now. He'll not like you taking control now. And don't fall for the manipulation he'll pull about you breaking up the family / he's doing his best blah blah.

He doesn't show you basic respect. I expect you'll be far less likely to be depressed once he's gone.

sillymillyb Tue 10-Dec-13 19:38:49

Just read this and wanted to add my support, you are doing wonderfully, you are being so strong. Good luck for when he gets home. I will be thinking of you x

Rumplestiltskinismyname Tue 10-Dec-13 19:44:41

Best of luck for this evening. I think you are amazing- he is an arse for losing you.

AdiposeLoveMe Tue 10-Dec-13 19:56:26

Just read through the entire thread and just anted you to know that I'm thinking of you.
Hope you're ok.

PopiusTartius Tue 10-Dec-13 20:30:05

Hope you're ok. Well done.

Perfectlypurple Tue 10-Dec-13 20:40:07

Good luck

technosausage Tue 10-Dec-13 20:42:52

Good luck

YoniMatopoeia Tue 10-Dec-13 21:13:12

Just read your thread. Good luck houmous.

I hope he doesn't try to blame you.

HaroldTheGoat Tue 10-Dec-13 21:14:26

Good luck OP.

i just read your thread. im very sorry to hear what you have been through. i find it really hard to understand why and how someone could behave so awfully to someone they have chosen to make, and create life with.

to me, the lies are actually worse than the act(s) of infidelity and i just dont think someone who has lied that much really understands the concept of honesty and how fundamental it is.

HankyScore Tue 10-Dec-13 21:28:58

Gosh he's a disgusting sleaze. Ugh.

Dirtybadger Tue 10-Dec-13 21:35:46

Good luck!!

Back2Two Tue 10-Dec-13 22:08:41

Hope you're ok xx

MikeWazowski Tue 10-Dec-13 23:18:50

Hope you're ok OP, be strong, you can do this, I've managed 2 years as a lone parent and it's tough - but it does get easier thanks and wine

houmousandcarrotsandwich Tue 10-Dec-13 23:44:11

Ergh, hes still here. In the spare room. He refused to leave.

Still denies sleeping with others. Has admitted a kiss. Theres been more flirting at work with othervwomen I didn't know about (and had been around 2 of them for coffee! Really just coffee? !). Apparently they have picked up he's been down and they start talking and this leads to flirty texts!
Has admitted to flirting online. The most recent being Saturday night, while I was at my works do. Then when I asked him to show me, he said he deactivated the account on Saturday (yeah right!). And the account he says still exists as I've checked it today.
Apparently he gets lonely when I work over night (which is very occasionally, a few times a month max)
I told him over and over again I was through, this was too broken. He kept going on about changing, even though I said he's had plenty of opportunity.

Now in bed, exhausted.

He's off work tomorrow, so I have no idea how it's going to be

notapizzaeater Tue 10-Dec-13 23:46:44

Well done for confronting him.

I'd take the kids out for the day tomorrow.

Remember he didn't have to flirt with these women. It's been his choice.

TalkativeJim Wed 11-Dec-13 00:00:15

If children are at school/preschool, just go and see a solicitor and start the ball rolling.

No more cooking, washing etc - you're separated, he deals with his own stuff.

Keep telling him you don't care what his excuses are, he's simply not good enough for you anymore- if he ever was! You're done.

Say you'll talk next when he's willing to thrash out the separation.

Any HINT of him losing his rag - call the police. Might get him out of the house!

It will be ok. Never, never try again with this turd - you're simply wasting precious time.

Whatnext074 Wed 11-Dec-13 00:06:28

Just read your thread. You have shown nothing but strength and dignity, even after reading awful details. I am in awe of you and you will be okay.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Wed 11-Dec-13 00:11:58

He wouldn't lay a finger on me, I hit him back harder!

Ive just stupidly text ow, says he's told me every thing, I hope their shag was worth it.
Feeling very silly now, but just a kiss really?!

I just want the fucking truth!!!!!!!!

Im so fucked up, was hoping id feel better not worst sad

TidyDancer Wed 11-Dec-13 00:28:51

I've just read through this whole thread. You have been nothing but dignified and strong throughout the whole thing, you can be very proud of yourself for the way you have handled it. Your DCs are lucky to have such a brilliant mum.

Wishing you all the best.

starzz58 Wed 11-Dec-13 02:33:29


you sound like a very strong woman and he doesnt deserve you. Whether or not he's slept with these OW, kissed, or's all innappropriate and a form of infidelity one way or another.

My ex-OH has been having online/phone/internet affairs for 7 years. Some of his relationships were only flirtatious, some friendly, some sexual, and who knows what else. I know for sure he met some in person and has definitely slept with one.

I applaud you for contacting the OW....i have done the same. If we can't get the truth from him, then we must get it ourselves. I completely understand that!

Possibly, as in my situation, the OW did not know of me or thought our relationship was broken/failed/over. I think that they must have known in some way that things didnt seem right with him but then again, i ignored my intuition for a long time as well.

I hope you find your answers, whatever you are looking for and that you take care of yourself and your little ones.

All the best to you

thegirliesmam Wed 11-Dec-13 03:19:30

Eurgh!!! This frustrates me so much OP, how men do this astounds me! Mine did exactly the same. Same excuse of all talk and no action, but I put it to mine like this...after what can only be described as a 'campaign' of attracting women for this period of time, am I really to believe that you were totally unsuccessful at getting anywhere?...I dont know exact numbers and I dont know exact actions, just like you, but I know im nit an idiot and my feelings and instincts arent off centre. And neither are you. Men have been caught having affairs for years, not by mobile phones or emails because self absorbed men have existed before technology, but by actions, behaviour and by being the person that they are deep down. Irrespective of what he says, your husband has turned you in to a person you dont want to be. You are snooping. You are distrustful. You undoubtedly feel worse about yourself and the soab had the utmost disrespect by sending a photo of your dd! He has made you feel all of the things you feel right now, not you. Not the bullshit excuse about you work. Not the bullshit 'lonely' excuse. Just him and his arrogance.

Mine was outed while I remained cool as cucumber in the pub. I told him everything I knew like he'd just asked me the time. I then asked him if t wanted to leave. I repeated myself until I was bored of saying it and then I lay down the rules about how he vould live under my roof and in my presence aslong as he was willing to deal with the person he had turned me in to. That was over a year ago, in which I have screamed until I was hoarse, thrown him out, taken him back, cut up his favourite clothes, ended any good relationships I had with his friends because I dictate hia social life and I dont trust him. I am in short, a nightmare. I dont want to be that way. But I cant let my kids think I gave up when I still had a small amount left in me to try.

I am a strong person. But you are unreal! How you have lived for days with him and had all of this go on and waited to say something I do not know! Hats off! You should run an anger management group. But as strong as you are you arw not made of stone. I will remember what mine did u til my dying day and I will always feel a pang of despair when I remember it daily! Please take care of yourself. I am an example of what you dont want to be shen you think being together is better than not. You are capable of amazing things. Dont let him hold you back.

ScrewedUpJune Wed 11-Dec-13 03:42:07

please leave. pleasve realise you are a stong indivdiual. please accept that there is nothing you can do to change this man. look at yourfself and be stronf for yoy and everything else will follow.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Wed 11-Dec-13 05:20:56

Thank you all.

Ive had patchy sleep and bad dreams.

He's text me from the spare room the usual sorry I will show you etc

Thinking if he doesn't go I will on Thursday, kuds pets the lot.

I was stupid to think I wouldn't be hurting this much now. I didn't consider it would be this painful sad

Rumplestiltskinismyname Wed 11-Dec-13 06:44:04

I can't believe he didn't leave. YY to getting ball rolling on legal advice. If he tries to draw you further today- just repeat that you would like him to leave. Stay strong.

MissScatterbrain Wed 11-Dec-13 07:28:14

Tell him you deserve far more than this sleazy lying wanker and that its over.

If he was really sorry and wanted to prove it was just a kiss/flirty banter, he would have shown you all his emails, texts and online chats.

Actions speak much louder than words.

Get legal advice and in the meantime do NOTHING for this man - no washing, cooking, shopping etc.

perfectstorm Wed 11-Dec-13 07:45:33

Tell him if he's really sorry and wants a new start he'd show some damn respect by doing as you ask and leaving, at least for now, to give you some space. And yes he'd let you have free rein over his emails and texts - though he'll also have deleted any he doesn't think you should see by now.

You have more than enough evidence to know he's a lying cheating faithless arse. TBH I'd see a solicitor sooner rather than later. Life is too short to live this way, and it isn't just one woman/affair which might be recoverable from, it's an attitude that he is entitled to cheat.

doasyouwouldbedoneby Wed 11-Dec-13 07:47:25

I am so sorry Humous -but can't he see that even a kiss has crossed the line from something more than friendship?
I think he is going to minimise this and try win you round. He is already blaming you for his actions, he was lonely ( you left him alone-working WTF)..
I wonder how he would have felt if it was the other way round.
Stay strong.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Wed 11-Dec-13 08:03:46

Completely agree with you all.
He us definitely minimising (I told I knew he was!).

As for telling me about the kiss (he coukf have read this off a script) "I was on a night out, she persude me and kissed me. That was it" (god I wish he wad ponoccio!)

So that was it but you continued to just have flirty texts with her for over a year after (she kept chading him, apparently) - b.shit!!

He's already got up with the kids, brought me coffee in bed (cos thst will make me say oh go on you can stay).
Just getting ready, make up on snd face the day.
First job giving him his own laundry basket!

Thanks again for all your support x x x

CarryOnDancing Wed 11-Dec-13 08:21:16

Stay strong Houmous!

Flirting and kissing is breaks the trust and respect you relationship should be built on. He's cheated and that's that, don't let it become a grey area as it doesn't need to be.

Please don't doubt yourself. You've already given him lots of chances. He used his last one a long time ago! You can move on without it...and you will be all the better for it. I'll be thinking of you today! thanks

MissScatterbrain Wed 11-Dec-13 08:41:22

Why do they think a cup of coffee or tea will make you want them to stay?! Talk about following the cheater's script.

Re the minimising - it is not just one OW, it sounds like he is a serial cheater. No way did he stop at one kiss and then it was back to flirty texts.

Be strong x

Donkeylovesmarzipanandmincepie Wed 11-Dec-13 08:43:07

Read this thread, my word, what a sleaze he's been.

A selfie with a picture of DS in the background he uses on a dating website, that has to be one of the horrible things I have read on MN.

Hope when this all comes out you'll get proper support from rl friends and DM & DSis will wake up. I think deep down you knew a long time ago H was on borrowed time, yet a tiny part still hopes this is all salvageable, hence wanting proof to convince yourself as much as others.

Forgive me for saying, your dad probably thought he'd seen you safely married to the man you loved. Without knowing him I bet he was 10 times the H yours could ever be, it would sicken your DF to hear this man has broken your heart, whether or not he slept with all these women.

Good luck OP, there's no saying whether H will carry on or one day walk without warning, so do take control back.

(PS Presents, empty meaningless gestures more like - how much has he spent on going on the prowl and on his OW, never batting an eyelid?).

JuneauWhoIAm Wed 11-Dec-13 08:44:53

A cup of coffee!! Wow, what a keeper.

Best of luck, stay strong.

CatAmongThePigeons Wed 11-Dec-13 09:36:01

Stay strong, you are worth more than the lies he has given you.

TalkativeJim Wed 11-Dec-13 10:21:15

The truth? What one's that? What he says to each of the many women he's involved with? The stuff he tells himself? The person he pretends to be to everyone else?

The TRUTH is what you already know. He's a worthless man who cheats and lies like breathing. There is no truth! Who cares exactly what he's done on x y and z evening? Is the location of a truly worthless penis which has the misfortune to be attached to a truly worthless man of interest to anyone?

Forget about him!

The important stuff is AHEAD of you. Right, getting shot of him - is it your house? If rented, yes MOVE OUT asap with kids, pets and the Christmas tree if you can. If owned - got equity? Etc. etc. Take legal advice, spend your energy on PLANNING for a great future rather than picking the meaningless scab of what he has been up to. It's really, really not worth your time. Is he important in your life anymore? NO. Then what he's done - make that of little or no interest to you. It certainly doesn't reflect on you at all - you could be anyone - and he'll move on to another 'you', again and again and again until he's alone.

'BREAKING NEWS: Cheating lying bastard continues cheating and lying'


YOU on the other hand and what you and your children do next - concentrate on that!

Frigintinsella Wed 11-Dec-13 10:46:14

His behaviour is disgusting, I feel so bad for you OP.
I hope you find the strength to get shot of this loser because I personally don't think he's going to change in the long run.
If I've read properly, this was his 3rd chance wasn't it. You have given him more than enough opportunities to redeem him self from his past behaviour, what an idiot he is for blowing them.
Stay strong OP thanks

PPaka Wed 11-Dec-13 10:48:02

Houmous- listen to your instincts and be strong

This was me 4 years ago. Husband has lied and cheated all that time, but as I never had proof I just put my head in the sand and thought that he wouldn't possibly do it
Everything I found, he denied. It was never quite enough
I wish I had left him when he first starting lying, I think it wouldn't hurt as much now.
It's the deceit that's the worst, the making up stories without batting an eyelid

houmousandcarrotsandwich Wed 11-Dec-13 13:50:43

Yes this was chance number 3.

He's still not budging. I barely say a word to him.

He asked if we could talk when the kids have gone to bed. I said we could (but its not going to change).

Told him this was his laundry basket, he didn't say a word. But has just put a wash on for himself.

I've booked to have my nails done (which is only usually a special occasion thing). When I told him (do he can look after the kids) he said I don't mind paying (well if you're going to pay for me to have my nails done, you're welcome back in my bed)

House is owned and I don't want to move out (DS preschool in the village and friends), if I do go it will have to be my mums and thats over half an hour away. He on the other hand could go to his parents and be closer to work.

Staying remarkably strong.
Thanks once again for your support x

MissScatterbrain Wed 11-Dec-13 13:54:07

You do not have to move out - make an appointment to see a solicitor.

He really thinks you will sweep this under the carpet yet again. Make it real by telling people in RL and getting legal advice etc.

Not much to add, but just wanted to say that if your relationship isn't right, then you're definitely best to split. I did, and have a much better life now than I could ever have had. Stay strong smile

perfectstorm Wed 11-Dec-13 14:07:48

Don't move out. Get legal advice, but if you take primary responsibility for the kids (and I note he's being made to do his own laundry now, but not for a moment has it crossed anyone's mind to ask him to do his share of theirs...) then he can be made to move out as part of a divorce settlement. Stability for the children is the essential, here. He can try to refuse all he likes but you have ample grounds for an unreasonable behaviour petition and that can be granted at nisi level in weeks. At which point he has to negotiate on what the financial settlement will be and if you can afford to stay in the house with the kids, out he goes. Like it or not.

What an utter waste of space he has shown himself to be. I'm so sorry. sad

perfectstorm Wed 11-Dec-13 14:09:08

Agree a good solicitor and telling people IRL is really important now. Make it real for him - as it is, he thinks if he plays nice and refuses to budge he can make it all go away. Because he is nothing but a spoilt little boy, however many years he's been alive.

houmous you're doing brilliantly thanks

What an absolute moron - offering to pay for your nails/bringing you a cup of coffee earlier on - I mean WTF does he think that these things are going to change?

Stay strong, have you got any RL support? x

TalkativeJim Wed 11-Dec-13 19:00:30

Well yes it's completely in character that he'd be like that - offering to make you coffee and pay for your nails to be done.

He sees you (and all women) as commodities.

Toys. Pets. Playthings.

Not people, not equals.

So, just like you'd offer a puppy a chew to get it back on side if you'd upset it, he's offering his little pet some baubles.

But move out? Give this PERSON who has asked for some space the respect she's due and actually listen to what she wants?

Don't be stupid!!

PPaka Wed 11-Dec-13 20:31:08

My husband did exactly the same this week
Offered to pay for mani/pedi

How strange

houmousandcarrotsandwich Wed 11-Dec-13 23:06:20

Tonight has been awful.

I started so strong, he blubbed and blubbed, but I was still on the out you go thread.

I can't even remember what he said but then I started crying like I haven't through this whole episode. Im currently hurting from head to toe.

He has said he will go tommorow if that is what I really want. He's called in sick to work. He has said hes prepared to stay in the spare room for as long as it takes for me to decide what I truly want. And if that is for him to go he will.

I'm so exhausted!
Im tempted to say stay until I've made my mind up. I know he's a low down shit, but he's the father of my children and I will always love him (Have not said this to him)

I have even contemplated turning up at a&e saying im suicidal, so they admit me and drug me so I can sleep/not care/survive. H was very against this, even when I said I didn't care if he just told people I've gone mad.

Sorry I've wasted everones time. I was so miss fuck em now im back to thinking I can carry on despite being treated like shit. Im di fucking weak sad

mamakoukla Wed 11-Dec-13 23:13:07

You are not weak. This is a difficult decision. Heart and mind are at conflict. Do not rush but dont accept what you believe is second best.

Hugs and take care of yourselfxxx

Whatnext074 Wed 11-Dec-13 23:14:07

I don't believe you are weak at all. You will go through a mountain of emotions, it's all natural with what you are going through.

I really don't think that him sleeping in the spare room for 'as long as it takes' is going to help your frame of mind. You probably need total separation for a couple of weeks. You need time to think, to digest, to decide what you need.

You have not wasted anyone's time on here, MNers have helped me through so much and we will all support you.

doasyouwouldbedoneby Wed 11-Dec-13 23:16:14

Oh love you haven't wasted anyones time.
It is too soon and too raw for you to be making any major decisions. Your DH is a low down shit an you do know that but it will take a while for your heart to catch up with your head.
Do what you have to do to get by just now. If that means him staying in the spare room so be it. You dont have to chuck him out YET.
Can you go see your GP tomorrow and get some RL support.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Wed 11-Dec-13 23:16:33

Thank you all, now in bed, hoping I sleep x

cjel Wed 11-Dec-13 23:17:32

You haven't wasted anything Houmous, and you certainly aren't weak, non of us are taught how life should be. this is your life and its only normal to go through all these emotions. I would say that I think its a good idea if you can say that you would like him out of the house so you can catch your thoughts, its almost impossible to do while you still live together even in seperate room. IME the only way to make sure that the choices you make is if you don't live together for a while as you process it.

Don't worry about the agony you feel now they are all understandable feelings and you will be up and down as you live this. it really is the roller coaster it is cracked up to

MerryFuckingChristmas Wed 11-Dec-13 23:17:39

This is why your husband needs to leave the house

doasyouwouldbedoneby Wed 11-Dec-13 23:17:42

night x

Donkeylovesmarzipanandmincepie Wed 11-Dec-13 23:21:18

The past few months may have felt like they were happening to someone else, tonight it all caught up with you, it has been a long time coming. Try to sleep now - you don't owe us an explanation or apology but we're here if you want to offload.

cjel Thu 12-Dec-13 08:40:04

Morning HOumous, thinking of youx

houmousandcarrotsandwich Thu 12-Dec-13 10:27:46

Hating myself - I've caved in, hes staying.

Have said it's spare room I don't cook/clean/wash for him. And at anytime I can say he goes.

He now has to 'repair'. Says he's going to phone relate today and sort out counselling (im not holding my breath)

He took ds to preschool and have no intentions of getting dressed today (he's suggested going to take kids to feed the ducks later), I just want to hide from the world. I feel I've failed everyone including myself.

I guess I just hadn't really grown that back bone sad

towicymru Thu 12-Dec-13 10:46:11

It's a big change at a difficult time of year. Do what you feel is right for you. It is still quite raw. Take each day as it comes. Don't feel like you have to make any decisions now, do them when it feels right for you.

Some people can repair their marriage from this, some kick their OH out straight away and for some they wake up at a point and know it's over. Do what is right for YOU. Your 'D'H doesn't get a say! Take things at your own pace but please don't feel like you have failed. You haven't! This is your life not a competition or a show. Take some time for yourself - long soak in the bath, afternoon on the sofa with a film, whatever.

Oh, and don't feel like you have to hide from the world or make announcements to the world. This is your life, do what is best for you x

houmousandcarrotsandwich Thu 12-Dec-13 11:00:08

Thanks towicymru.

The thing is I don't feel im doing the right thing. The right thing would be to chuck him out, but some how I'm not.

Hes just gone out to get lunch and money for the window cleaner. He took the number for relate anx says he's going to call them while he's out (why not at home?)
Also was a missed call from one of his women at work, I didn't answer (have caller id). Have just text back saying I have a missed call from this number.

Feeling very sorry for myself

MissScatterbrain Thu 12-Dec-13 11:18:54

Don't beat yourself up please. I know how hard it is to do the right thing. I am sure you will when you feel ready and stronger.

I would use this time to focus on rebuilding your own life - hobbies, friends, work, training and so on. Also gather information (e.g see solicitor for free half hour) to find out where you would stand financially and legally should you decide to split up. All of this will make you feel stronger and more in control of his life.

As for him - remember actions speak louder than words and so far he isn't coming up with the goods (not calling relate while at home, missed calls from women etc) sad

MissScatterbrain Thu 12-Dec-13 11:19:24

*your life

Donkeylovesmarzipanandmincepie Thu 12-Dec-13 11:33:12

Why phone Relate out of earshot away from home indeed.

a missed call from one of his women at work, let me guess he was practically skipping out of the house on every errand.

Oh dear.

I completely understand why you are in the position you are in - resolve is all well and good, but in the face of the man you love crying that he wants to be with you, it is VERY hard to see it through.

But. Unless you make a stand now, you are setting a precedent for the future that you will regret. I can promise you that. The texts you quoted up thread leave most of us in know doubt that he has shagged about - and quite possibly with more than one person. A spell in the spare room and a visit to relate is all well and good ONCE THEY HAVE BEEN KICKED OUT FOR A FEW MONTHS. That's what happens when and IF they are allowed to come home. Doing it this way means that you are skipping/leaving out the crucial lesson in all of this, which is that cheating has consequences.

The message he is getting is that a bit of crying, laundry,breakfast in bed and a couple of weeks in the spare room is his punishment but that broadly, he is forgiven.

I am so sorry if this sounds harsh but I realise you must be exhausted, drained, confused and tearful and frankly the last thing you want is to break up your marital home just before Christmas. But you are not - he has already done that. It might not be forever - in which case throwing him out is more important than ever.

Equally, it might be forever. So you should know one more thing.

You said up thread that he is 'the father of your children and you will always love him'.

He will always be the father of your children but you will not necessarly always love him. I bet if you polled MNers who felt this about their spouses you would be AMAZED by the number of people who fell out of love with their partners far more quickly than they ever imagined they would.

I really hope this isn't too brutal - you sound lovely and deserve happiness.

TalkativeJim Thu 12-Dec-13 12:48:00

Yes, he'll be out updating his shags on the situation and coming up with a game plan.

It's a really difficult time of year for this decision.

If you feel you need him to stay at the moment, why don't you use the mental 'ease' that will give you (if that's the right word) to start trying to think in terms of YOU, WITHOUT HIM, moving on with your life?

Personally I'd forget relate and the only counselling I'd want is solo counselling. But more than either of those things - how about you just start to do more stuff independently? And without children? Friends? Clubs?

Oh - and love - you know this guy doesn't know the meaning of the word. That feeling will change over time too - I believe that what you 'love' is what he represents - your husband, your partner, father of your children - all the ideals that actually he doesn't even pretend to really be. You're in love with an illusion.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Thu 12-Dec-13 13:36:44

All true!

He said he can't get through to relate. Which nade ne think convenient, but have just tried myself and their answer phone on thurdays (no body in the office)

Hes just taken dcs out do I'm going to watch crsp on telly ti tske done time out x

perfectstorm Thu 12-Dec-13 13:51:53

The problem with serial cheaters is they absolutely destroy your self-esteem. It's almost impossible to walk away because you are in such a miserable state over them and the relationship that you respond to the hoover manoeuvre with surprising ease. I've been there, my love, a long time ago now thankfully but it took me 6 years to get shot, and we weren't married and there were no kids.

I think you need counselling on your own, really. Sod Relate as he won't be honest anyway and I'm afraid his behaviour and attitude makes it pretty clear he has no very great likelihood of ever changing. I think you need some help for you, as the damage a relationship with someone like him can do is pretty huge.

There's nowt wrong with you. You aren't the cheat, the liar or the manipulator here. Hold on to that simple truth, okay?

muddylettuce Thu 12-Dec-13 14:26:14

I've just read this thread and am gobsmacked. I really empathise with you houmous and can see that everyone is behind you WHATEVER you decide but is there anyone in rl you can confide in? It might help. Right now it's still his dirty little secret and you are very much fighting this on your own albeit with the whole of mn holding your hand. Anyway, hugs. X

PPaka Thu 12-Dec-13 14:47:19

Houmous- I went back time after time. I know how you feel

Perfectstorm is right, you need to work on your self esteem to get the strength to stick to your guns and get him to move out
Even talking to a solicitor for half an hour helped me
She did it over the phone, just a couple of weeks ago, she was fantastic

My husband is right now, begging me to make it work, whilst emailing OW to go out for dinner

I think once they know they have gotten away with it once, they don't think twice about doing it again
I was always waiting for proof
I still don't have physical proof, but I have enough to know that he has lied over and over. Unbelievable lies
And I don't need proof.
I know, deep down I know. I've been blinded because I just couldn't believe he actually would, but he has.

Anyway, he won't change, but he'll be better for a while
Get your ducks in a row, get cab, legal advice. I'd also see the gp, some areas have great counselling etc
Figure out what you can do, and do it when you are string enough.

Noctilucent Thu 12-Dec-13 18:24:04

Do not beat yourself up but be aware - much as he will make grand overtures to you, he will also be protecting his interests at the same time. Whatever you do, protect yourself, your children, and your assets. Seek legal advice. (Sorry to be so blunt - I feel bad for you, and wish you peace.)

starzz58 Fri 13-Dec-13 02:49:52

It is okay and completely understandable to be going through a roller coaster of emotions as you've been blind sided.
Don't ever feel stupid or hating yourself... This is the most important time to start loving you!!!
Think about what you deserve... and that is so much better than what he's giving to you.
I believe our feelings don't just turn off when something like this happens. It's ok to feel a mess, it's ok to be confused about how you feel, its ok to be angry and mad and sad and all of your emotions. Give yourself permission to take the time you need to do what's right for you and your kids.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Fri 13-Dec-13 05:34:16

Well last nights revelation that the woman who called yesterday from work, he has also kissed. He went round for coffee and they kissed (I was pregnant with dd at the time)

I text her earlier asking which one she was (after eastibilshing she'd given me a missed call), her response was the best one. Then I found out her name from h so text her "so x what exactly have you done with my husband? " her response "your boring me now! "

H says shes a bit of a piece of work and another member of staff is loosing his marriage after lies she has told.

He was supposed to go last night, but couldn't get hold of his parents (I don't trust him that much I don't think he was even dialing their number, and redial doesn't work on the phone so can't check). Then started looking at local rentals and realised he wouldn't be able to afford it.


MerryFuckingChristmas Fri 13-Dec-13 07:34:31

What a terrible way to live. You seriously told him you are up for continuing this kind of shit ?

Donkeylovesmarzipanandmincepie Fri 13-Dec-13 07:41:30

Even your Houdini of a cheating H can't dodge this one. "Piece of work"! Pot calling the kettle black.

mammadiggingdeep Fri 13-Dec-13 08:13:50

Just read this thread humouus.

No wise words just wanted to let you know there's another MNetter holding your hand.

When going through my own shit with ex my sister held my hand, looked into my eyes and promised me that one day, one way or another everything would be ok again. And it's true. Hold on to that. You'll be ok.

perfectstorm Fri 13-Dec-13 09:57:43

You need legal advice. Seriously, you do. And counselling just for you, too.

Every day you stay with him is a lost one. You can't get them back. I am now married to the loveliest, best person you could ever meet. I'm really, truly happy and confident and at peace with life and myself, and I was such a mess after that time with the idiot. My only regret is not getting shot when I first found out, after a year, because with every time you forgive it gets harder to leave. Harder to get angry enough and disgusted enough to see what a loser they are, how many great alternatives there are, and to get rid of the emotional freeloader.

He's playing you. He has no respect for you or for any other woman, and never will. Honestly, is this the model you want for your kids?

TalkativeJim Fri 13-Dec-13 10:01:01

Oh God.

Can YOU call his parents?

Go to your parents with the children for Christmas and New Year?

Please stop wasting your precious, precious time on this nasty little player.

PPaka Fri 13-Dec-13 10:40:46

Very good point above
As time goes on you kind of become immune to how bad his actions are.
You stop getting angry and appalled and just see it as normal
It's horrendous

CarryOnDancing Fri 13-Dec-13 11:06:29

How about he packs his bag, heads out the door and then if his parents aren't home he can find a hotel?! Where he goes is not your problem. What is your problem is your mental health-and that's your children's problem.

You absolutely cannot begin to repair with him in the house. Even if you tell him he can come back in a week (whatever you need to say to get him out of there), you need up rebuild your strength. That means absolutely no contact and I promise you will feel more like you can tackle this situation.
Right now you are working on the basis of being ground into submission and just fighting through with dwindling energy.

Also remember-as predicted, you are finding out new things already, so there is so much more you don't know.
How dare he draw this out? All of the information is in his head but instead he's content with extending this misery for you. It's all about self preservation for him-he's not thinking about your feelings at all. There is absolutely no love or respect. The tears he has shed are for himself!!

You were feeling strong and were ready to tell him it's over and he stripped it from you. You need to get that back. He needs to leave for you to get back to that place.
If you don't feel strong for yourself, feel strong for your children. They deserve happy parents. You can't be happy living with a liar and it's not a lesson you want them to learn.

I'm sending lots of strength your way. You know in your heart you don't want him there. You don't owe us anything at all. You can only do what it possible but from your posts I know you have the strength to deal with him leaving. The consequences are scary but you really can do it!! envy thanks

JoinYourPlayfellows Fri 13-Dec-13 11:14:29

This man has been cheating on you constantly throughout you entire relationship.

There is nothing to salvage here - he will never stop thinking he's entitled to flirt with women and have sex with them behind your back.

All he will do is try to cover his tracks better and bulldoze you into not asking too many questions.

Why ON EARTH is he phoning Relate?

You can't be thinking of going to couples counselling with him?

The problem with your relationship is that one of the people in it is a philanderer.

Talking won't fix that.

Buzzardisnotina4birdroast Fri 13-Dec-13 11:21:50

I really, really feel for you but can't you see that he has been allowed to get away with this so many times that he knows all he has to do is blame the other women and tell lies and you will cave in?

You do know he thinks you are completely gullible? Stop putting yourself through this. What kind of man has so little respect for any women (including you) that he makes them out to be bunny boilers etc rather than just admit that he can't keep his cock in his pants?

Your husband is a misogynist, don't let your DC's think this is ok.

Where he sleeps is not your problem.

He can't afford a local rental? TOUGH SHIT.

You can't afford to have your soul ripped out.

Pack his bags - he is a grown man and he will sort something out. I am so sad for you and I have to say that from everything you have told us, I fear that this is all the tip of the iceberg. He is a serial cheat and he WILL wear you down and steal the joy from your life. Fucker. I am SO angry on your behalf.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Fri 13-Dec-13 21:35:54

Thank you all again.
Told a friend in rl today, she was great. It was hard and it all felt very real. But I am making steps to moving on.
He will not leave.
Has pestered me all evening about how he still lives me snd wants to prove to (yada yada..). I was exhausted and had to beg him several times to leave me alone because I just want some bloody sleep! Eventually he went to spare room. But not before threatening to sleep in our bed (I just said calmly that I would sleep elsewhere)
No messages from his ows today to me (I have had to stop myself from texting back yesterday's one who saidI was boring her! )
He's still off work on personal leave. I just want him to Fuck off! When he was being funny earlier he was saying you wouldn't even care where I'd go (no, only need to know it's safe for when you have children).

He also tried the your not going to let me see my kids line. This annoyed me. I have always said he can have access, as long as I know when he would like to have them and he doesn't mess them around (false promises, being late etc)

The cracker of the night hsd to be "well you could have been upto alsorts, I just don't know how to snoop like you!" . I went to hit him the twat! No I'm honest!

Apparently hes going tommorow, take your bets now!

PPaka Fri 13-Dec-13 21:56:45

Houmous, I think I'm probably 2 weeks down the line from you
Very similar circumstances
My husbands mood has been angry/accusative/defensive/suicidal(all talk) sad/pathetic
Begging me to give him another chance, then suggesting I am out to fleece him.
I have prepared myself for a fight, but I have stayed resolute and calm and told him I'm not going back on what I have said
He is slowly getting it
I think!
He has no right to be sad/argumentative/angry
No right at all, and anytime he tries I will remind him of that

PPaka Fri 13-Dec-13 21:57:57

At one point I got "well you shouldn't have been snooping, then you wouldn't be so hurt"!

Noctilucent Fri 13-Dec-13 22:03:55

Pack his bags, dump them on the doorstep, call his parents.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Fri 13-Dec-13 22:28:39

PPaka yep I've had the suicide threats too! I was very blunt and just said if you were gonna do it you wouldn't be telling me first.
Soooo much feeling sorry for himself ("would you even come to my funeral? ", can never turn down a free lunch wink )
Well done for staying strong for 2 weeks, its like a marathon isn't it.
Hope yourd takes the hint soon x

Clutterbugsmum Fri 13-Dec-13 22:45:32

If he threatens suicide again, ask him to repeat then tell him you will phone the police to deal with him. Then ask him again. I'm betting he back down.

WhyIRayLiotta Sat 14-Dec-13 09:09:54

He sounds a nasty piece of work.

You sound strong and you KNOW you are doing the right thing - for yourself and your DS and DD.

Staying with this cretin would be so damaging. All the minimising, making you doubt your own sanity as he lies so easily. Cheating on you when you were pregnant FFS.

Imagine the weight gone from your shoulders when he's gone.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Sat 14-Dec-13 21:13:18

Well big shock - he's still here!

I made a point of saying we will sort through dcs xnad presents, check we're happy then go to bed (both tired out). He still managed to get in about 1/2 hour of bullshit. Even though he kept saying im not blaming you, he went on about how my (as in me) life's been hard and it's hard to talk to me because of this.

Im dreading Tuesday. I've never had a positive counselling experience and I imagine she will try and put it on me.

His major piss me off if today was that he'd had a little chat with ds (nearly 4). When I came into the room the first thing he said was "daddies hurt you". Apparently he told he might be moving out because he'd hurt me. How fucking stupid! If ds says this at preschool, ss will be on my door thinking I'm a battered wife! I tolld h it was a stupid, selfish thing to say, I was livid!
So mr pathetic continues....
PPaka has yours got the hint yet? (Pm if you want/need to chat)

perfectstorm Sat 14-Dec-13 21:51:38

Why are you agreeing to couple's counselling? You don't need to be counselled; you're married to a serial philanderer who is also a compulsive liar and gaslighter and a consummate manipulator. How is joint counselling going to prevent his continued emotional abuse of you?

Sorry but I think it's an awful idea. I think you need a good counsellor on your own, not to be fed more of his bullshit.

If he had the least remorse or concern, he'd have done as you asked and given you space. He is wasting days, weeks, months and years of your precious and finite life... and your children's even more finite childhood.

doasyouwouldbedoneby Sat 14-Dec-13 22:32:29

Don't go to joint counselling--massive massive mistake.

perfectstorm Sun 15-Dec-13 00:09:40

You know, his behaviour is emotionally abusive. And joint counselling with manipulative abusers is not a good idea - a counsellor may suss him and call him on his crap, or they may not, but if you open up with him you hand him more information about how to manipulate you and keep you where he wants you.

I don't see anything good for you from agreeing to this. It's a fob-off and effort to control from him. There is nothing wrong with you and there isn't a relationship problem - he just feels entitled to fuck around. All the couples counselling in the world won't sort that.

34DD Sun 15-Dec-13 09:10:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Donkeylovesmarzipanandmincepie Sun 15-Dec-13 09:34:47

I am sure he will give a performance worthy of an Oscar.

Please listen to others an DO NOT engage in couples counselling. It will be used to validate him and his behaviour. You will end up feeling that HIS serial cheating is a 'joint' issue. It isn't.

Hang in there Hummus

jemily84 Sun 15-Dec-13 23:05:38

oh my, hummus! be strong lady!!

this reminds me so much of my dad. cheated on my mum 14 years into there marriage. my mum dad was dying at the time and he blamed her for being preoccupied! she was having a break down and took him back. 15years later, they divorced. but he has destroyed her. as kids,.my sister and me suffered the psychological abuse of not being able to tell anyone, and seeing my parents argue.every day. everyone's right, go to counselling on your own. his is HIS fault. not yours. get rid of him before he is able to inflict any more harm on you and tour children. he i s a c*nt. then he cries say to him. "im not interested in your tears, they are not for me. you are crying for you and what you have thrown away!" you will feel empowered. arrange for someone to come round and change the locks when he is at work. pack his bags and leave them outside. call his parents and tell them everything, if he won't leave the property and is hammering on the door,.call the police.

no one said it would be easy. but we promise it will be worth it.

jemily84 Sun 15-Dec-13 23:09:03

oh, and don't worry about his finances. you said he had savings right? well he'll have to use them then.

sucks to be him :-)

Divinity Sun 15-Dec-13 23:29:42

Oh he's a serial cheat but its all your fault as his life was so hard with you? And the one you found out about is a nutter according to him? What a cock.

His constant talking to you is another way of playing mindfuck games with you. You are not being given a moments peace so you can gather your thoughts together.

You do realise that you've done nothing to deserve this? Dig deep, you do have the strength of character to deal with this. It does get better I promise.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Mon 16-Dec-13 21:31:19

He's still here!
He told his parents, who are apparently devastated (worried he's about to move back in I reckon!)

My mum has said she can't have me and the kids due to having already arranged for my sister s family to stay over Xmas, then they are all going away for new year. So I have no where to go.

Counselling tommorow. I think I just wanna hear what he's going to say.

He's still off work (hopefully back Thursday). I have told him over and over to go and I just keep getting "I can't just walk away"
He would be totally f'ed financially. He's been looking into it and keeps begging to stay.

I still want him gone, it's just trickier then I planned!

jemily84 Mon 16-Dec-13 22:02:45

do you believe this? has he called his parents? why do t you say to him that you're calling them to confirm as tour don't believe anything he says anymore and see his reaction. and seriously don't worry about his finances. its another shot at emotional blackmail. tugging at your heart strings to get you to forgive him. what a tosser. and who's to say he doesn't have money you don't know about? he's lied about everything else?....

jemily84 Mon 16-Dec-13 22:07:22

i would call a domestic abuse line for some advice. i personally think you could easily call the police and have him removed just from the threats of suicide and the psychological abuse to you and your children.

perfectstorm Mon 16-Dec-13 22:09:44

Frankly a solicitor would be more use to you than a counsellor. Why do you want to hear what he has to say? It'll be a new attempt to manipulate you and more lies - what's the point?! It will serve his interests, which automatically means it will be absolutely against your own.

Tough shit on him if a breakup would hit him hard financially. He should have thought of that before dipping his wick in other women, plural, then playing you for a fool when you protested! If you start divorce proceedings (and you have ample grounds to found an unreasonable behaviour petition) then he'd bloody well have to go because the settlement would ensure it.

I'd give him a choice: leave and give you breathing space now, or you'll start divorce proceedings and he can be forced to leave permanently.

Sadly, and very understandably, I don't think you're in the least ready to end it. He's doing the hoover manueovre and you're enmeshed enough in his bullshit to want the lies to be true. I've been there, and wasted years as well. Honestly, it's pretty frustrating to see someone else there. There is so, so much more to life than he is allowing you to experience. sad

houmousandcarrotsandwich Mon 16-Dec-13 22:10:28

No he is shit with money. I manage the financial side of things, I transfered alot of our savings inti my personal account (said I was buying a house to the bank, they didn't question it!)
I know all his in goings and out goings as have been through all his syuff looking for evidence(at least no evidence of taking ow out for meals hotels etc just
a few small fees to sexy chst type websites)
He has def told the parents as his mum keeps texting him. She has asked to talk to me, but h has said to wait and not hassle me.

perfectstorm Mon 16-Dec-13 22:28:34

His finances are not your problem. He should have considered the fallout of his choices before he was a selfish bastard. He has shredded your self esteem and your ability to see the wood for the trees and is busily getting his ducks in a row so he can reinforce that and stay with his little wify while he fucks around, I'm sorry, but that's the reality.

Your relationship will be your template for your children. Is this what you want for them? Seriously? sad Please OP, you have so much more you could do and get from life than being emotionally abused by this loser. Get shot of him - and I am not someone who always says to LTB, either, and rarely so bluntly. But he's not sorry or remorseful, he's not ever going to be honest, he just wants to soothe you and placate you so he can keep going. He doesn't see that he is doing anything wrong. Is this what you want from life? Because if you stay with things as they are, it's all you will ever get.

As to what he will say in counselling - whatever it takes to get you to do as he wants. A combination of "woe is me, the relationship has been struggling and I was foolish enough to seek validation outside" "my childhood was difficult..." and "I love houmous more than I ever knew I could love any woman and can't believe I risked everything - I self-sabotage!" would be the norm. He may have his own variations, though. hmm He lies. You know this. Why want to listen to more of them?


He is begging to stay/for a chance/calling his parents blah blah blah...

You have asked for one thing - and that is for space, and he is not giving it to you. hmm

He needs to go to his parents/friends/b&b and feel the consequences of his actions and show you the first bit of respect in ages, by putting himself out of his comfort zone and respecting your need for him to leave. Whether for a short/long time or ever.

You are being so restrained that I don't know whether to applaud you or shake you! But definitely hug you smile

totallyoutnumbered Mon 16-Dec-13 23:23:54

Hello love, I've been following your thread and just want to say I'm another mneter here to handhold. I couldn't agree more with the likes of perfectstorm and talkativejim. This man is actually so very predictable unfortunately and you deserve so, so much more. A really good friend of mine gave me some advice when I went through something very similar (before I had my kids) she ttold me to picture having kids and imagine what they would feel like if I demonstrated as a mum that this kind of shitty behaviour is normal and therefore acceptable. It really upset me and totally focused me I might add. You can do this even if it doesn't feel like it right now. You're threatening to remove all control from him and he doesn't know how to handle it at all so is trying every bloody trick in the book. He needs to go and allow you to realise that you're better than this. Stay focused for yourself and your family xxxx

meeeemo Tue 17-Dec-13 00:26:19

just read the whole thread. stay strong, you sound lovely and dont need a shit like that!!

ChippingInLovesChristmasLights Tue 17-Dec-13 00:49:04

Why wont/can't he go to his Mother's?

houmousandcarrotsandwich Tue 17-Dec-13 07:12:06

I appreciate what your all saying, hes minimising, hes going to lie in counselling, he's trying to take control and playing various emotional black mail cards.

I will ask in counselling how I can believe a single word and he knows I still believe there is more to come out.

He just refuses to go full stop. Unless he is violent (which he won't be) I can't really call the police to remove him. Its both our names on the deeds and I don't want my children witnessing anything like that.

Thank you all again for your support x

Holdthepage Tue 17-Dec-13 08:03:44

Can you get copies of his subscriptions to the sexy chat sites? I suspect he hasn't given his parents the full picture & the truth is always a powerful tool in your arsenal. Any evidence you can gather, before he can delete things, could be useful to you.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Tue 17-Dec-13 08:06:24

I've got copies of everything in hard snd in digital form. This will be used against him if required!

pausingforbreath Tue 17-Dec-13 08:10:17

I have been silently holding your hand throughout your thread. You are so strong.
When my Dh revealed his affair with OW - the kaleidoscope of emotions and thoughts were so huge. Your head must be spinning.
Although I didn't have to deal with minimising ( hit hard with all the grim facts) living through those fist few weeks was really grim with both of us together in the same house.

I got to a point , when I couldn't 'lie' to my children anymore.
They were at an age they knew something was badly wrong and when they asked me; they knew I was lying , minimising to them - I could see the hurt & confusion reflected back at me.
This is when I told Dh , I could not allow for them to be lied to anymore. He needed to face up to what he had done , stop trying to hide the enormity of the situation and stop expecting me to help him minimise and cover up for him with our kids . I made him deal with the shit that he had caused .... It wasn't my shit to clean up.
He had made a choice to do what he had done, I hadn't been part of that.

Yours sounds the same, created the mayhem - then expects others to smooth it over for him.
It's not on and he needs to realise that. Why should he be the one that remains comfortable ?

Take care.

HollaAtMeBaby Tue 17-Dec-13 08:28:02

This is so depressing. I wouldn't go to counselling. What is his reasoning for not going to stay with his parents?

PPaka Tue 17-Dec-13 08:57:01

Oh Houmous- it's so hard
I can't believe how similar your situation is to mine

You really need to talk to a solicitor
Mine was amazing, gave me so much information, reassured me and really made me feel like it was possible
If I was at home I would just give you her number, I talked to her on the phone

The thing with counselling is that even if he doesn't manipulate it, you will still spend all the time and energy talking about him and his problems, so make sure you get to talk about you

I'm at my parents now til the NY, I'm not really confident that he will be out by the time I get back. But I'll get there

Donkeylovesmarzipanandmincepie Tue 17-Dec-13 08:58:59

Don't be surprised if PILs do turn up on your doorstep to add pressure.

This evening when he sees the counsellor how will he justify his actions? DW and DCs not sufficient? He felt neglected? In his head he's got an open marriage, he just never bothered to clear it with you first? Maybe he will try and minimise it as being greedy - he likes the extra portions of attention and arousal by co-workers and from signing up on websites.

Can't imagine how you feel anticipating there's still more he hasn't told you.

In a short time he gambles on your anger burning itself out. Show remorse, tick. Counselling, tick. Back to work on Thursday, sorted.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Tue 17-Dec-13 15:58:10

Counselling wasn't a complete waste of time. I actually thought the counsellor was pretty good.

She helped us see its Christmas next week and we have 2 kids. So until the new year, we are parents. No emotional blackmail, no arguments. We only talk if both of us want to without the kids around and if the other doesn't want to, then that is to be respected.
We are to plan how we are going to make Christmas work for the kids.
I have made my feelings perfectly clear that I don't see a future for us. But right now I am a mum, thats all thst matters.

Thank you for all your input x

Donkeylovesmarzipanandmincepie Tue 17-Dec-13 18:09:27

Take care OP x

AlwaysOneMissing Wed 18-Dec-13 17:32:23

Tbh it seems to me like your counsellor has just put you at the bottom of the list and is telling you to ignore your gut feeling and instincts to give this cheat a lovely happy family Christmas!
Which is definitely not what he deserves.
I personally don't think that you glossing over things for Christmas is the right thing to do.
And I bet your DH thought very highly of that counsellor as she has basically just freed him of any consequences and has allowed him to have a wonderful Christmas! (And best of all, all he has to do is tell you he doesn't want to talk about it and hey presto! You're off his back).

He will use this opportunity to pull out all the stops to show you what a loving and kind husband and father he can be OP. He knows that a 'happy' family Christmas will persuade you that it's not worth breaking up the family for.
I don't think the outcome of this is in your best interests at all (and therefore not in the best interests of your DC either).

houmousandcarrotsandwich Wed 18-Dec-13 21:58:38

Awful day!
Had ds preschool Christmas songs, h came along. I found it so hard to keep it together.
This afternoon I've been at an all time low. Crying, full of anger.
Got kids to bed and just kept asking him to leave. Tried to call his parents and he snatched the phone off me. Threatened to call the police, he just said are they really going to believe a self harmer whose on anti depressants (haven't sh in over 3 months)
Hes def turned, trying to put things on me.
Then he finally phoned his parents to say i wanted him gone. Only his dad thers who wanted to speak to me. Turns out hes screwed around too! I I just said like father like funking son and hung up. Now hiding upstairs as i can't stand him anymore.

This is just stupid! SO ANGRY!

3HotCrossBuns Wed 18-Dec-13 22:16:11

Houmous - I haven't posted before but I have been following your thread as I am going through something similar (numerous infidelities over our 17 year relationship on and off, mainly emotional affairs but a couple of full affairs too). I, too, have had angry, spiteful responses from my H - usually when he feels he has lost control of 'the process'. No advice really as I am dealing with my situation very badly but I wanted to say you are not alone with this shit.
My only suggestion would be to see your own counsellor and ditch the marital counselling! Mine has saved my sanity!!!
It totally sucks to be in this position at Xmas.

perfectstorm Wed 18-Dec-13 22:16:19

The counsellor basically told you to live a lie, which is hugely in his interests and massively costs you. It is not in the kids interests to live in this marriage or watch this man do this to their mother. And the longer you stay after finding this out, the more you normalise it and the less likely you are to leave - what matters most to their longterm interests, faking a happy Christmas (HOW? Are you not meant to be human?!) or ensuring them a less toxic future? That is NOT a good counsellor. That's someone whose main goal is to preserve the marriage at all (and in this case all yours) costs.

He's lied to you about asking his parents, and now you know his father taught him it was okay to live this way. Do you want to repeat that lesson for your kids, or do you want to teach them this behaviour has consequences?

He has fucked around, lied to you, and is now using the mental health problems HIS BEHAVIOUR has caused you to bully you.

You need a counsellor OF YOUR OWN and you need a solicitor. You need them before the end of the week, and you need, IMO, to start divorce proceedings against him. That way you CAN get him to leave, because the settlement will force that.

You haven't thrown your marriage away, you didn't do this to your kids. He has, is, and fully intends to. Of course you're angry and devastated, and those reactions are just more of the inevitable consequences of his behaviour.

He does not care how much harm he does you or your children or how much pain he causes. He just wants to have everything as he wants it and fuck anyone else's needs, rights or wishes. And he will do it no matter who he is with, because he feels entitled to do it.

It's emotional abuse. You are living with an abuser. Leave him - please. sad

AlwaysOneMissing Wed 18-Dec-13 22:24:41

Your DH learned this from his father.
And your DC will learn it from their father.
Show them that it's not acceptable and that you deserve more respect than that.
Trust your instincts and your feelings that are telling you to get out of this situation. They are right.

3HotCrossBuns Wed 18-Dec-13 22:29:42

Oh and my H also learnt this behaviour from his father. And his enabling mother (both equally to blame as far as I'm concerned). I'll be damned if my boys treat their DWs the same way. Although its not always automatic - I know plenty of adults with philandering fathers who have not followed suit.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Wed 18-Dec-13 22:44:37

Thanks all.

I know he's abusing me emotionally. I know its over. I wad stupid to think that I can live with this over Christmas.

I have nowhere to go.

Never that keen of FIL, should have trusted my instincts! What a knob! I mean as if telling me that he did it once us going to make me say "oh well if you did it, its fine H did! "

I was stupid to think just over a week ago he would leave.
He's turned me into this spiteful, hateful monster, who has wasted 10 years if her life on a liar.


3HotCrossBuns Wed 18-Dec-13 22:57:40

Not stupid, just trying to put your family first at Xmas. Don't beat yourself up, you're in an impossible position.

myroomisatip Wed 18-Dec-13 23:06:05

I know a bit about how you are feeling.

I started self harming well into my 40's.... I never ever heard about SH but I was in such a destructive relationship where I had no power, or influence I turned it all back onto myself.

I wish I had something to say that would inspire you sad Thing is, we all have our own journey. I too had nowhere to go, hence my name... I retreated to my bedroom. I rarely ventured to the rest of the house, luckily my kids were young adults. You have to do what you think helps for now. I know that there will be lots of posters with really practical advice smile For now lots of wine and cake and chocolate.

Donkeylovesmarzipanandmincepie Thu 19-Dec-13 07:57:03

You are hardly the spiteful hateful monster, OP. I was thinking H will soon tire of saying sorry and lo, he is lashing out now. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree as they say - his dad is as bad When MIL wanted to talk to you the other night I hope she wasn't about to give you the "They're all as bad as each other but we wives just have to put up with it" speech

MissScatterbrain Thu 19-Dec-13 08:35:13

I am sure your past mental health issues has a lot to do with living with this cheating lying abuser.

You need to put yourself first and tell him to go. The DC need a tension free home and a healthy mum. He is the one who is breaking up the family, not you.

I hope you are not doing any cooking, shopping or washing for him.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Thu 19-Dec-13 09:02:29

Oh I have lost count of the number of times I have asked him to go!
But he refuses.

I do nothing for him, he can look after himself.

Going to gp later for my review, she's very blunt and yet incredibly supportive, just what I need right now! X

MissScatterbrain Thu 19-Dec-13 09:38:31

Re getting him to leave. Have you looked into legal advice? Seen a solicitor? They should be able to advise on this - he will have to go as part of a divorce settlement.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Thu 19-Dec-13 16:45:20

Have contacted solicitors today.

Told a few people in rl and the support has been amazing. What was I frightened of?! I think I felt shame but now I can see ive nothing to be ashamed of!
Maybe I underestimated people, maybe I just under valued myself.

Gp really impressed with me and told me I should be proud of myself.

Much more positive day smile

MissScatterbrain Thu 19-Dec-13 16:47:51

That's great - its amazing just how much having RL support can help.

Well done OP for taking these steps today - I hope you feel more positive about the future now.

Well done well done well done. I CANNOT EXPRESS what an achievement you have made. Talking to people in RL is the hardest thing to do, which is understandable, but it also one of the best ways to drive yourself forwards. I am really happy for you OP because you have taken steps that some people don't take for years. No more wasted time x

houmousandcarrotsandwich Fri 20-Dec-13 07:07:43


I don't really know how it happened, but I had sex with h last night.
He finially said he would go tommorow (Friday). I felt the complete opposite to the strong person i had been all day

Dont get me wrong, I consented to it. But now feeling so mixed up.

Feel like ive let myself down (and all of the great support I've had from you guys)

MissScatterbrain Fri 20-Dec-13 07:24:12

Please don't beat yourself up about this.

You are bound to have a few setbacks and this is just one of these.

Donkeylovesmarzipanandmincepie Fri 20-Dec-13 09:49:38

Part of the pattern and what happens when the other person displays a sudden 180 degree turn to hang onto his marriage like grim death. It doesn't mean you forgive him everything but he's back in control which is at the crux of all this.

RollerCola Fri 20-Dec-13 10:04:30

You're not stupid, it's understandable considering how mixed up you are. You hate him & want him to leave but at the same time you still have feelings for him and no doubt he is now desperate for you to change your mind.

Is he still leaving today? Can you be strong and stick to your guns? I think you need to show him that he can't just jump back into bed with you and make everything alright. Nothing's changed. He's still been unfaithful. He's still walked all over you with no regard for your feelings.

He's panicking now & desperately clinging to the hope that he can make you change your mind. In the only way he knows how.

Good luck, be strong my friend.

Completely normal response. Truly - almost textbok. Google 'hysterical bonding'.

It's happened. It often does. Now step away x

ElizaCBennett Fri 20-Dec-13 10:44:09

Felt so sad when I read your latest post. You were so close to being free and are now confused and wavering. Only you know how you want this to play out. Be strong and dig deep, good luck.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Fri 20-Dec-13 12:22:52

Sobbing mess today. I was so sure what I wanted (him out) and now I just don't know. I want to run away as far from my life as I can.

I've got the washing machine being repaired in hslf an hour, the guys gonna think im a loon !

Just phoned my mum. She was fucking useless. Why doesn't she want to come over and cuddle me and tell me everything is going to be ok?! She's 30 minutes away, hardly the end of the earth.

Today I feel like I want to forgive. But is that really going to be possible? !

cafesociety Fri 20-Dec-13 12:30:30

houmous you may be able to forgive [but we can only forgive those who say sorry remember] but I fear this issue will erupt in the future in some form or another, and can you trust. I think it will be in your mind eating away, at regular intervals.
I know there is often a 'goodbye fuck' between people who have been so close for so long. But that's all it is. It's a way of letting go.

Have you someone in RL who you can talk to today? Can you talk to the Samaritans? When we hear ourselves talk and describe a scenario and our emotions we often hear a clearer picture and get a light bulb moment. Good luck.

mamakoukla Fri 20-Dec-13 12:33:27

Houmous, be gentle with yourself. You cannot suddenly undo the good memories and hopes for what was your partnership.

Give yourself some space and time.

You are tremendous. You sound lovely. I am sending you hugs Xxxxx

houmousandcarrotsandwich Fri 20-Dec-13 12:34:04

I did consider the samaritans, but just felt for people who must really need them this Christmas.

I have said he can stay over Xmas (in spare room)

mamakoukla Fri 20-Dec-13 12:36:25

If you feel you need them then maybe you do (?). You have described a longterm and sometimes difficult relationship. Take all of the support you can get to look after you.

pertempsnooo Fri 20-Dec-13 12:43:18

Sounds like a confusing time OP. How about asking for a trial separation? Then, if his behaviour changes, you can forgive him and let him back. If you realise it's for the best you don't AND he's out.

RollerCola Fri 20-Dec-13 13:20:48

I think you just have to do whatever you need to to survive at the moment. Christmas will no doubt be affecting your decision - I found my separation very difficult and that was in July with no major events to think about.

Just keep remembering what he's done. If you forgive him now he'll carry on doing it. You know he will. He's not even had to cope with leaving the family home to make him see how wrong his actions were, so there's nothing to make him want to change.

Take your time, let him stay at home for a bit if you want. But remember you are a very strong, intelligent woman. You don't deserve to be treated like this. You deserve much much better and 'better' is out there. You won't find it with this guy.

Thinking of you.

Donkeylovesmarzipanandmincepie Fri 20-Dec-13 15:37:55

If H has been remorseful and has turned over a new leaf, this whole episode has marked an epic change.

If he still denies it all and grinds you down, he will take it as read you are excusing him his attitudes and behaviour and giving in for a quiet life. So it continues. You then end up enduring more of the hurt and humiliation until he decides to reform or calls it a day and moves on.

Forgiving H can be a way of giving yourself peace but that's only going to count for anything if he isn't going to keep screwing up.

Bluntly, as he doesn't admit to doing anything wrong, a token show of penance, ie a few days off work followed by a few nights spent messaging his girlfriend (s) in a spare room before resuming normal life is a piece of cake, he can do that standing on his head. He thinks like a free agent but won't go - not even to give you thinking space because he knows it's a rotten situation to put you through and doesn't dare let you assert yourself.

MerryFuckingChristmas Fri 20-Dec-13 18:23:24


mission accomplished, for him

very sad

Hummus, please google 'hysterical bonding'. The way you are feeling now will make more sense. Be kind to yourself x