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Going to be a Grandma, don't know whether to weep for joy or regret

(487 Posts)
GrandmaWeLoveYou Thu 11-Jul-13 19:00:39

Have NC for this.
It's a bolt from the blue.

DS (23) announced yesterday to his Father that his Girlfriend (of 3 years) is pregnant.
DH gave me this news this morning at breakfast.

Both of them are at Uni therefore not financially independant and DH has decided that we will fund them both for next 2 years until DS has qualified.

They've got it all sorted.

It's like history repeating itself only we were financially stable when our happy accident (DS) happened.

I've spoken to DS who said it was an accident. In this day and age accidents don't happen do they?

I don't know whether to jump for joy or cry my eyes out.
They had all the time in the world to have kids.
This is life changing stuff.

Can't help but think they've left it this long (3 months) to tell us because over here that's the cut off for abortion.

My beautiful boy is going to be a father before he's had time to really enjoy life and girlfriend will be a mother at 23 (i find 23 year olds in general lacking the maturity my generation had)

I sound like an awful person i know. I'm sure once the baby's here i'll be overjoyed, but for the moment feel raw and sad.

Please give me reassurance.

awkwardsis Thu 11-Jul-13 19:06:09

I think it's normal to feel a slight regret at the lost opportunity of a carefree youth I suppose. You are allowed to feel disappointed for them I think, but don't dwell in that. I had my dd at 20, at university. I was plenty mature enough, and accidents certainly do happen in this day and age. I'd say offer them all the support you can. My parents turned sir backs on me and I've never really gotten over it. Welcome his girlfriend and their child with open arms. I have no regrets at all a out having my dd and I'm sure they'll cope just fine. Do you really need to fund them though? I carried on with my degree just fine with dd in tow.

AdoraBell Thu 11-Jul-13 19:11:03

I would say they've waited 3 months because the first three months can be the most risky time in most pregnancies. I wonder why you thought of the cut off date for abortion? Having an abortion is a choice for the mother primarily and also the father, not the extended family.

Many, many people start their families in their early twenties, I'm sure they will be okay. I would be frustrated at everything being organized in terms of funding them without including you in your husband's decision, but that is a separate issue to becoming a grandmother.

I'm sure you will come to terms with the situation and that everything will work out.

belatedmaybe Thu 11-Jul-13 19:12:36

We have so many hopes and dreams for our children that them making a massive step away from those is difficult. Take a moment, privately, to grieve the future you dreamt of then put it to bed and celebrate the future they have decided on. 23 is old enough to have properly enjoyed carefree clubbing, over the top drinking and all the things youth brings. They are young but not too young. Congratulations smile

Mama1980 Thu 11-Jul-13 19:13:40

Try not to dwell on it, though I think a pang of regret for them maybe normal. They sound happy together and you say yourself they have a plan. Just support and love them both as much as you can, I'm sure you will. smile
At 24 I began applying for custody of my goddaughter I got it a 25 I was plenty old enough, I'm now 31 with three children and regret nothing I would do exactly the same thing if I had my time again.
And yep accidents definitely do happen my ds1 was conceived despite us using a condom carefully.

CatsAndTheirPizza Thu 11-Jul-13 19:16:06

I am sure there are pros and cons to having children early or late. My old boss was the same sort of age as me, but while I didn't have children until mid thirties, he must have started the same age as your son. Now mid forties, he has a successful career, financial stability and children all grown up - plenty of time to enjoy himself.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Thu 11-Jul-13 19:17:00

We would never ever turn our backs on them, totally out of the question.

As far as funding them goes, they're both doing heavy duty degrees and there's no way they could get bar work etc.

Her parents don't know yet. They're very strict catholics (my son is of another religion).

DH has suggested that we should all be together when they announce the news. That means barbeque here this weekend.........lovely.

Girlfriend's Father will probably slaughter DS.
I'll be piggy in the middle.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Thu 11-Jul-13 19:19:50

They didn't use contraception.....used the rhythmn method!!!!!!

(2 so called intelligent adults)

GrandmaWeLoveYou Thu 11-Jul-13 19:21:42

How they were never caught out before God only knows!
(we gave him "the talk" at 17 in minute detail)

therumoursaretrue Thu 11-Jul-13 19:23:03

Accidents most certainly do happen!

I had DS at 22 while still at uni. DP and I are settled, just signed off on a contract for a house and he has a brilliant job, while I am now fully qualified in a professional field and own a small business.

It might not be what you wanted for your DS but it is his life and they are old enough to make their own decisions. The best thing you can do is what others have said, just support and love them. It sounds like you will do a great job and be a lovely grandmother!

For what it's worth, the worst part of having my DS 'young' was other people's reactions. I watched other people get congratulated on their pregnancies while I just had people asking me if I'd cope and was I 'really' happy. It really hurt me as some people took it upon themselves to treat me like a silly little girl rather than an adult just because I was relatively young and not married. I'm sure your DS and his GF will really appreciate your support.

MissPricklePants Thu 11-Jul-13 19:23:54

I was 23 when I had my planned DD, had just graduated university when I got pregnant. I am now a single parent (nothing to do with age though, ex became abusive.) but having DD has been the making of me! Honestly it will all be fine, congrats on the impending grand child!

GrandmaWeLoveYou Thu 11-Jul-13 19:25:26

DH already talking about my giving up work to look after baby!!!!
He's over the moon, like all men who participated minimally in bringing up under 7's!
(my youngest is 13, i can remember the difficulty of babies and toddlers)

GrandmaWeLoveYou Thu 11-Jul-13 19:27:20

MissPricklePants Thankyou from the bottom of my heart. You're the first person in the world to congratulate me xxx

sillyoldfool Thu 11-Jul-13 19:29:33

I had DD1 'young' in my twenties, if she'd been planned she wouldn't have arrived for at least another decade. I'm so so glad we had her when we did, I've seen so many older mothers struggle with work and lifestyle changes, we'd never really had anything so didn't miss having fancy hols etc. We didn't have a massive mortgage to pay so could muddle by and be far more flexible when she was small. We've gone on to have 2 more, whilst building our careers and they'll all be in school when we're still in our early 30s!
I'm so glad we're not starting now.

I have had a baby this year at 23. Although it is daunting, you do adjust. It's not the end of the world as there are so many different options now, so it's not a death sentence or anything.

Just be there for your son. I am sure when you meet your granddaughter/grandson you'll wonder why you ever had these doubts.

But of course you have them because your son is no longer your baby and that's hard to accept. Your baby having a baby is a big thing.

I wish you all good luck I am sure you'll be a lovely grandmother smile

You and your DH sound very generous/supportive parents which must be wonderful for your DS. My parents are very supportive too, not so much DPs so I know how that goes. But my little girl has all the love in the world in this house.

sillyoldfool Thu 11-Jul-13 19:30:50

Oh and our DDs have ben the making of my dad, he was at work a lot when I was small, now he's enjoys having time to spend with them, it's wonderful.

OldLadyKnowsNothing Thu 11-Jul-13 19:31:11

My ds decided to become a father at 18. I was upset, to say the least, but 4 years on the parents are split but amicable (after some ups and downs) and ds has just started what may turn out to be a fairly well-paid job he enjoys. At least this young couple will have decent qualifications and prospects.

I do know how you feel though. I expressed it rather badly on here (under a different nic) and got badly flamed. blush

noddyholder Thu 11-Jul-13 19:31:20

Every life is a gift Try and enjoy it for what it is and see the bigger picture. He is very lucky to have parents like you smile

ReginaPhilangie Thu 11-Jul-13 19:32:13

I understand how you're feeling, and it's understandable. Once you've gotten over the shock and the grief that he won't have a carefree youth, do be happy for them.

I had dd1 when I was 24, she was planned and I'd been married for 4 years at that point. My DH had DSD when he was 18 and his ex was 19. Although it did mean he had to be sensible from a young age, he was very capable as a father. DSD is now 20.

And of course accidents still happen in this day and age. DD2 was an accident albeit a very happy one, and we were grown ups who'd been married for quite some time.

23 although young is a full grown adult and has been for quite some time.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Thu 11-Jul-13 19:32:22

AdoraBell 3 month cut off point for abortion would probably have been a biggy for GF parents (even though they're all devout and pious, GF's future as a doctor would help them to be hypocrytical)
For us abortion would never ever be an option , but would respect other's right to do it.

therumoursaretrue Thu 11-Jul-13 19:32:54

You and your DH sound excited! Sounds like your grandchild will be very lucky to have you both smile

RNJ3007 Thu 11-Jul-13 19:35:32

Firstly, congratulations. My mother was epically freaked out when I announced we were expecting our first. She was cold and distant until DD got here; as soon as she met her granddaughter, she was in love. It's ok to be upset, but they are adults and they'll find a way to cope.

For what it's worth, I was 23, in a stable relationship, and our daughter was very much wanted. 23 doesn't mean immature, and although we weren't exactly financially stable, we coped.

Here I am at 27, house, mortgage, job, bills paid, a sleeping 4 y.o and a bump due next month, after almost 2 years of trying...

specialsubject Thu 11-Jul-13 19:36:06

well, we all know what you call rhythm method users....clearly those heavy duty degrees are not in biology.

As her parents are likely to give a whole new meaning to the concept of apeshit, I suggest that the proud parents-to-be tell them without you having to be there to listen to the fallout. They can then say that they have your supports.

she should be prepared to be cut off. He had better be prepared to move quickly in case they threaten to cut something off.

please make it a condition of your help that they use real contraception in future, not mythology.

AdoraBell Thu 11-Jul-13 19:37:03

So they used the only method approved of by her religion, as dictated by her parents. It's still not a tragedy even if her parents react badly. Trust me, she's not the first Catholic to have sex without first being married.

Just put your emotional armour on and stand together at the weekend. Good luck.

TalkativeJim Thu 11-Jul-13 19:37:41

'Can't help but think they've left it this long (3 months) to tell us because over here that's the cut off for abortion.'

What a very odd thing to say. It's perfectly normal to wait until the 12 week mark to tell people about a pregnancy, isn't it?

That sentence speaks volumes unfortunately - firstly, the implication that your opinion would carry any weight whatsoever when it came to deciding whether a 23 year old couple would be keeping a pregnancy - whether they would even discuss such a thing with you if they were in any doubt. Secondly, the implication that you would feel it appropriate to make your feelings known on such a personal matter.

I know this isn't the question you are asking, but do tread carefully. Your dismay doesn't seem to me to be so much about them 'throwing their youth away' as more about feeling angry that your son is now not your baby boy anymore. Do you dislike his girlfriend, or is it a more general anger at loss of control or closeness? It's obvious from your post, you know. You speak of your 'beautiful boy' losing out on opportunities, but when it comes to his partner, it's a barely disguised dig at '23 year olds'. Is he not a similarly immature 23, and she - your DIL to be, presumably - not a beautiful girl who you also fear will lose her youth to babies?

23 is not young. They will be described as 'mid twenties' by the time their baby is born. I would really urge you, if you want a close relationship with their family, to change what appears to be your perspective on their relationship - they are adults, nowhere near even teenagers. You're right, it very possibly wasn't an accident. If so, your son is already feeling the need to keep you and your influence at what he sees to be a healthy distance from his new family. Don't be that MIL!

noddyholder Thu 11-Jul-13 19:38:42

Talkative I think that is a very OTT response and there is no way you can make such assumptions about someone you have NEVER met

GrandmaWeLoveYou Thu 11-Jul-13 19:39:12

specialsubject degrees in Veterinary Science and Medicine !!!! blush

MrsOakenshield Thu 11-Jul-13 19:40:06


I am an older mother (late 30s when DD was born) and I so wish we could have had her younger. Not only do I feel exhausted and less up for chasing and rough-and-tumble and so on, but it's unlikley we will have another which makes me so sad. My mother was also an older mum, (though not as old as me) and is getting on (77) and not very fit, FiL is really very dotty and MiL has been having health problems. My dad died before he saw either of his GC.

I can totally see this is not what you had envisioned for your DS, but I do feel that there are so many benefits to being both young parents and young grandparents. And I'm sure your youngest will be thrilled to be an uncle or aunty.

Embrace it, and them, for what it is - a moment for celebration.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Thu 11-Jul-13 19:40:29

Thanks all for your lovely words.
Feeling better already.
Think DH's enthusiasm is also working on me.

MrsOakenshield Thu 11-Jul-13 19:41:12

what an unhelpful post, Talkative.

AdoraBell Thu 11-Jul-13 19:42:40

To me your OP read like they delayed telling you because if the abortion cut off, I can understand delaying telling someone she thinks may try to force her into a course of action she doesn't want, especially if that person is her own parent.

DD was 20. The way I see it I get more years with my beautiful grandson before I pop me clogs.

Just watch other people volunteering you for childcare duties though. Just do what you want. Babies/toddlers are messy and exhausting, especially when you're middle aged!

ImperialBlether Thu 11-Jul-13 19:43:33

I think before I came onto MN I would have thought this was an unmitigated disaster. All of those dreams for my children, of freedom and travel and careers etc would have seemed to be impossible if there was a baby.

I think I was completely deluded.

When I read on here of the struggles some of the women have, losing their children to dreadful illnesses or drugs, and read in the papers about children lost to violence, I think I really had a skewed vision of what I wanted for my children.

Do you remember when you were pregnant with your son? I remember all I wanted was for my baby to be healthy and to lead a happy life. Think about your son now. He's entering an incredibly exciting time of his life. He's obviously clever if he's studying for something that will take so many years. He's got a lovely girlfriend. He cared enough about her beliefs not to use medical contraception. They obviously cared enough about each other, too, otherwise Catholic or non-Catholic, they would have made sure she didn't get pregnant. And now they'll have a baby - the most lovely thing that could happen.

I don't think her parents should be told when you're all there too. It will hurt them to know they've been told last. It will be awful for them to not be able to take the news in without people looking at them. Your son and his girlfriend should talk to them together.

But congratulations on your new grandchild. This child will bring you so much love and so much happiness. Don't think of regrets, think of ways you can help them both achieve all of their dreams.

Hassled Thu 11-Jul-13 19:43:35

Another congratulations from me - I think being a grandmother must be amazing.

23 isn't too young - or at least, if it is, you manage. I was only just 21 when I had my oldest - as with everything else, you cope, you learn. They're clearly a committed couple, so they have an advantage over many people stumbling into parenthood. And they have committed, interested parents, which will help. Your lovely boy will still enjoy life - just a different life to the one you imagined.

Xmasbaby11 Thu 11-Jul-13 19:50:55

Congrats! They sound like a lovely couple and you and DH will be wonderful grandparents. I echo others' comments about being young grandparents. I am pregnant at 37 and my parents are in their 70s. I feel so sad that their health is deteriorating and they may well not live long enough to enjoy their grandchildren.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Thu 11-Jul-13 19:51:45

TalkativeJim What a delightful post, thanks thanks
As i have already said neither DH or I would have advocated abortion.
Her parents ............?

This is not a planned pregnancy (how naive) and they are still not excited about it.

This messes up their plans. Not only studies but travel etc.
As it is, DS will have to join DH's practice as soon as he qualifies. A life of working long hours.

Jaynebxl Thu 11-Jul-13 19:52:40

Once you're over the shock I'm sure you will be delighted. I'm sure it was a huge shock though.

However I doubt very much they waited to 3 months to get over the a oration cut off rate since it is much later than 3 months. I'm sure it is more to do with waiting til the scan.

maja00 Thu 11-Jul-13 19:53:03

Mid-twenties is a great (and totally normal!) age to have a baby, especially in a long term relationship.

Sounds like they are going to have a tough couple of years while they finish their degrees but then they will have a lovely baby and great careers.

Jaynebxl Thu 11-Jul-13 19:53:04

A oration? Abortion!

GrandmaWeLoveYou Thu 11-Jul-13 19:53:06

I'll be a 47 year old Grandma. DH 52.

TalkativeJim Thu 11-Jul-13 19:54:24

'DH already talking about my giving up work to look after baby!!!!'

Um. Do remind him that this might just be a decision that the child's mother might have some opinion on, won't you?

If I were your son's girlfriend, my hackles would shoot up at my FIL-to-be suggesting this.

And I would be incensed that either of you were aware of the details of our contraceptive choices.

ImperialBlether Thu 11-Jul-13 19:55:23

I wonder whether your husband is taking too much control here, OP. He has decided when and where the girl's parents will be told. He has decided you will stop work to care for the baby. Maybe her mother would like to do that? Maybe the girl would prefer nursery? And has he decided now that your son will work for him immediately?

K8Middleton Thu 11-Jul-13 19:55:57

Congratulations! My ds was a happy accident. I was 26 and just starting out in many ways but it will all work out for the best in the end. My DM was shocked at the time but came round very, very quickly and adores ds and we have dd now too.

I look forward to enjoying about 20 years of lovely holidays while I'm still earning but dc are grown up and being able to devote myself to work without a break to have babies very soon.

Don't mourn for a future that is lost. They still have a future, just as three instead of two.

RNJ3007 Thu 11-Jul-13 19:55:59

Grandma My mum was also 47 and my Dad was 52... How's that for a coincidence!

It'll be ok. My parents now love the fact that they have the energy and strength to be able to cope with a giant 4 year old and parks and day trips and the occasional sleep over!

Boosterseat Thu 11-Jul-13 19:57:27

18 when I had DS. My DD and DSM supported me when my own mother and exp parents called me a whore and tried to make me ashamed of myself and my son.

DD,DSM and my DS are incredibly close, I grew up pretty darn quickly and I am now married with a very successful career.No more Dc yet,we have all the time in the world.

No regrets here, but boy am I grateful for the amazing strength and support my parents gave me - bless them I could never thank them enough.

Congratulations Granny wink

MrsOakenshield Thu 11-Jul-13 20:00:39

oh, for goodness' sake, can the OP's DH not be excited! If the parents are both fulltime students they are going to need all the help they can get - maybe they'll be dead chuffed to know that Grandad is ready and waiting to help them out. Nothing definite has been decided by anyone! Goodness.

RNJ3007 - that's a good point, my mum, who looks after my niece one day a week, had to stop taking her to the playground when she was 3 and she couldn't lift her in and out of the swings.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Thu 11-Jul-13 20:00:43

TalkativeJim My DH gets carried away with himself and his enthusiasm on most subjects. We have a very healthy relationship with our 4 boys and also with potential DIL.

The contraception conversation was between me and my DS. He needed to "tell all". He's in a hard place at the moment (they both are).
It's our job now to reassure them and get them excited.
They're scared. They've been at Uni now for 5 years living the life of Riley.......time to grow up.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Thu 11-Jul-13 20:01:24

As far as the 3 month thing, over here them's the rules.

mummytolucas411 Thu 11-Jul-13 20:01:25

Honestly 23 is not that young.. I had my son at 20 and it upsets me to see on here that I would be viewed as not mature enough to be a parent.

NotYoMomma Thu 11-Jul-13 20:01:28

I married at 23 and am soon to be a mother of 2. I have a degree, am currently 28 and find your whole post a bit depressing.

Of course accidents can happen, they seem to be adapting and planning ahead and have been together for over 3 years.

I do not understand why this is even remotely upsetting.

coffeeistheanswer Thu 11-Jul-13 20:01:38

I had a baby unexpectedly at 23. The deliberately had another at 25 and then at 27 whilst continuing to work and study.

I'm now thirty - I have a managerial post in a professional job, have another two degrees including a PhD, a mortgage on a four bed house in a nice area (bought at 23), a 40k a year job, nice car, travel the world in my job...

Most importantly I have three beautiful children.

I'm not sure I could ask for much more or my life would have been much 'better' without them. Babies didn't stop me in any way - Yes I had to work a lot harder to keep up with my peers - when they were in the pub I was breastfeeding and doing homework. I got less sleep. But I also grew up quicker and experienced so much more through my children.

It's really not the end of their dreams.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 11-Jul-13 20:03:31

Accidents DO happen. Especially when you're 23 and very fertile. Either way....I had a carefree youth...DC at 31. Was I financially stable? No. Am I now oldish with two small DC? YES!

Your son and his GF will be 40 when their DC is 17! They'll be young enough to bloody travel the world still!

I should think you could do both - have a little cry, sob into your pillow and then jump for joy!

They are 23, not 16, not 18, 19, etc.

Timing may not be ideal as they are studying, but 23 is old enough for them to work out what to do, make decisions, change/adapt plans as necessary. They will mature fast as they learn how to deal with their new status as parents, especially with your guidance, support, love and wisdom, which they will need.

So, that gives you a job to do as grandmotherhood approaches shock carry on being a mother to your DS, which includes providing all that stuff above^^^^, which I'm sure you have always done for him.

The main thing really is their relationship and how they both feel about the prospect of parenthood. It is great that you are in a position to help them, lucky them. It all does sound as sorted as it could be.

You are bound to have mixed emotions, as it has been a bit of a shock and marks the end of an era where they are the youngest generation...everyone's moving up a notch. It's just family isn't it? My DH's DM was 18 when she had him, and she and DFIL are now in their seventies, still together and happily so.

If everyone embraces this, it could turn out to be a wonderful thing.

thanks for the granny-to-be! and wine

EllieQ Thu 11-Jul-13 20:07:13

I notice that it's your DH making the decisions that you will support them for two years (I assume he means financially?) and that you'll give up work to look after the baby? I'd be unhappy too!

And they were being foolish to use the rhythm method (I guess they meant counting days rather than natural family planning which is a bit more reliable) - if the GF was such a devout catholic she didn't want to use contraception, then she shouldn't have been having pre-marital sex!

Jaynebxl Thu 11-Jul-13 20:07:54

Sounds like you were only slightly older than him when you had him so I'm not sure you can complain too much! Hopefully soon you will feel the excitement.

MatureUniStudent Thu 11-Jul-13 20:08:23

I had my first at 23 with no support or help from my parents. So if, what I think I can see from your post is understandable resentment that you have to both financially and emotionally support them, you don't. You can do as little or as much as you wish. But make your concerns clear. There is nothing worse than being told a parent will give you support in a certain area and for them to then not do that. Take your time and see what you wish to give once baby is here. At the moment it is all knee jerk planning.

1944girl Thu 11-Jul-13 20:08:38

I first became a grandma when I was 47.DS was 19 and his wife 18.They married when she was 3 months pregnant.After two more children they are now divorced.DH and I supported them throughout their marriage.
Today DH and I have just attended our first grandchild's graduation from university with a first class honours degree in Mathematics.I have two more grandchildren from DS second marriage
Congratulations on your new grandchild's impending arrival.I hope you will be as happy as I am today.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Thu 11-Jul-13 20:11:31

mummytolucas411 I'm so sorry if i have offended you.
I shouldn't have generalised. I am in fact comparing my son and girlfriend and their peers to my generation.
My DS is really quite immature and naive compared to some of his age.
He's always lived in the country until he went to Uni and is not at all streetwise.

My beautiful boy is going to be a father before he's had time to really enjoy life

But becoming a parent can very much involve enjoying life!

GrandmaWeLoveYou Thu 11-Jul-13 20:12:15

I had DS at 23 and was very responsible and capable.

BangOn Thu 11-Jul-13 20:12:48

Sorry but you sound as though you have all the makings of becoming a MIL from hell.

I was 24 when I found out dd was on the way. Dh was 26. His mother went from being friendly & kind towards me to a cold heartless bitch who tried to,destroy our relationship & my sanity. She very nearly succeeded on both counts. The justification she gave for her behaviour was very similar to the things you're saying here - she thought we were too immature; she thought dh was going to miss out on the richness of life experience she'd planned for him; she still saw him as 'her boy' & not as a man who'd been already eligible to vote or marry for 8 years.

Fast forward 8 years & her behaviour has become so bizarre that neither of us have contact with her. She has one grandchild she's never met, & one she hasn't seen for 6 years. Pretty much entirely her own choice too.

FairyThunderthighs Thu 11-Jul-13 20:12:49

Congratulations, I'm sure it was a shock to you as it was for your son and his girlfriend, but they seem to be handling it maturely. I'm sure you will be a wonderful Grandma. My mum was 49 and my dad 48 when I made them grandparents for the first time, I was 19. I'm sure they felt exactly the same as you, that I was throwing my life away. They were loving and supportive all the same. They now adore both their grandsons, and are amazing grandparents.
flowers for you smile

GrandmaWeLoveYou Thu 11-Jul-13 20:14:02

1944girl Mazel tov xxx

GrandmaWeLoveYou Thu 11-Jul-13 20:15:56

BangOnHow the hell can you say i'll be the MIL from hell??!!
We're going to be supportive and compliant..........WTF?

TalkativeJim Thu 11-Jul-13 20:16:42

I'm sorry if my posts might be off-beam. From several responses it seems that they probably are - so point taken. And I see now what you mean re abortion if her parents are strongly Catholic.

It's just that your first post was in the tone I'd expect more if your son and his partner were 17-18. Maybe 20. But 23???

This is a longstanding couple almost in their mid-twenties... and you want to cry your eyes out, then it's all about how to support them and how you're going to have to step in, both financially and to help them with their parenting.

So it just seemed odd. But if as you say you do have a good relationship with both of them then I am sure it will work out. I'm sure they are excited and happy already.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Thu 11-Jul-13 20:17:14

BangOn Not every MIL is your MIL (ask around)

Chubfuddler Thu 11-Jul-13 20:18:37

23 is not particularly young to be a parent, planned or not.

Like hell would I give up my career to look after my children's children at 47 though. Bugger that.

TimeofChange Thu 11-Jul-13 20:19:40

It is lovely news.
They love each other, have been together for three years and now they are having a surprise baby.

They won't have years of fertility treatment and heartache like some others.

Life doesn't always turn out as planned, but that doesn't mean it isn't wonderful.

He isn't your beautiful boy, he is a 23 year old man who is your son.

Best wishes to all of you.

Mamafratelli Thu 11-Jul-13 20:19:58

Things have changed a lot. I got married at 24 dd at 25 moved to the Far East 8 months later have been to Malaysia, Bangkok, Hong Kong, Indonesia etc etc with a small child. Had another child in Far East. Moved back to uk. I'm early 30s. Don't feel like I've missed out on carefree years we have had a ball.

You will LOvE being a grandma.

Viking1 Thu 11-Jul-13 20:22:57

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I had my DCs at 20, and then 23. It's fine smile Congratulations.

From a practical angle your DS's GF will almost definitely have to interrupt her degree for a year (has to be a year with most degrees so you pick up where you left off the year before), so child care wont be necessary for a while anyway, but just be supportive and offer it (but don't push it) anyway smile

And good luck with the BBQ - if you and your DH are both excited and supportive then I'm sure her parents can be too.

MrsCampbellBlack Thu 11-Jul-13 20:27:10


But I understand why you feel you want to weep. I'd weep if any of my children were to become parents at 23, especially if they hadn't finished their studies etc.

It will work out, but you are allowed to express on here that you are sad that the life you wanted for your dc may not be the life they get.

And honestly, to deduce from one post that the OP will be a horrid mil is just madness.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Thu 11-Jul-13 20:28:05

TalkativeJim It's a tough call when "kids" have been in higher education from 18 to 25. They're naive, they've lived in a world of academia for years. They've never paid rent/worried about money, their life is studying and partying (nice work if you can get it!).
23 isn't our 23. They're kids still.

DS confides in DH in a way that is endearing but shows him not to be adult yet.
The pair of them are shittin themselves with the thought of becoming parents.
They've still got 2/3 years of Uni.
DH (always the opptimist) is trying to think of solutions......funding them, me taking on childcare, paying an au pair......) he's just doing his best in a difficult situation.
None of these ideas have been discussed with DS or DIL(!!).
We are not pushy people, never have been.
We want the best for everyone. (baby, DS, DIL, us, other parents n Uncle Tom Cobbly n all)

Please remember, i heard about this at breakfast thia morning!!

Zyn Thu 11-Jul-13 20:28:37

Accidents do happen when men can't sustain erections with a condom on. sorry, know this is your son, but men older than 23 seems to struggle with that hmm

Zyn Thu 11-Jul-13 20:31:37

Bangon, that's your own baggage there. The OP has not said anything to her son's gf. It would be a big shock. I'm in my early forties and my eldest is only 11, but if you can't find room in your own hurt feelings to acknowledge that becoming a grandmother suddenly in these circumstances would take some processing then that's your own immaturity and you're making this all about you.

ImperialBlether Thu 11-Jul-13 20:32:11

My two children are at university (MA, BA) and have paid their rent and food etc out of their student loan, money from their dad and me and from work. Both worked throughout their degree. One has a First and the other is heading for one. They do worry about money; they have had to. Not everyone spends all their time at university protected from the real world.

I know it's difficult to work when you're studying Medicine and Vet Science but for them to never have worried about money seems mad, really.

I would feel exactly as you - and indeed did when dss announced their pregnancy last year at 21.

It isn't what we would chose for them but it is, of course, their lives to chose.

Agree with those who have said you need time to adjust, to regret what won't be and to celebrate what will be.

A baby in the family is a blessing - mazel tov

ImperialBlether Thu 11-Jul-13 20:32:53

Zyn, the OP says they were using the rhythm method, not condoms.

1944girl Thu 11-Jul-13 20:36:00

GrandmaWeLoveYou Thankyou xx

MrsOakenshield Thu 11-Jul-13 20:38:33

actually, they do sound slightly like they are a bit oblivious to some realities - using the rhythm method is one; also, if they are shitting themselves over having a child then why (when they had the opportunity) didn't they go for an abortion? It almost sounds like they thought this would go away on it's own. They do sound quite immature, and I can see how, if they are still students at 23 - it's a bubble, isn't it, being students. (And I know for a fact, despite now wishing I'd had children younger, that both DH and I were spectacularly immature at far older than 23!)

I think you need to be supportive, but perhaps step back and let them take responsibility for, and charge of, the situation. They are going to have to grow up in a hurry, and like it or not, the situation is of their own making - they didn't have to go ahead with this.

AdoraBell Thu 11-Jul-13 20:43:43

I've obviously missed something, is someone volunteering you to do all the caring and give up your career and independence in the process? If so, don't do it. If you are volunteering that's fine and a wonderful thing to do, just don't be pushed into it.

ImperialBlether Thu 11-Jul-13 20:43:43

I agree, and I think that the OP's DH, while well-meaning, will keep them immature if he tries to make decisions on their behalf.

zigzoo Thu 11-Jul-13 20:45:06

Sorry OP but if your DS is not an adult at 23 then that is down to your parenting. Why have you not equipped him to do deal with real life?

It's totally mad that your DH is trying to "work out solutions". Presumably he will share them with your DS and this will come across as being pushy and controlling.

Take this as a wake up call to start letting your DS stand on his own two feet. Agree a financial figure if you want to and then DO NOT make this conditional on ANYTHING.

Gifts with conditions are not gifts.

Can't believe no one else has picked up on you saying that support would depend on them using certain contraception!

Also you will be in big trouble if your DS or his girlfriend read this. You've given a lot of identifying info. You could have posted a more generic my DS is early 20s and having a baby etc.

5madthings Thu 11-Jul-13 20:45:07

I xan see its a shock but they have been together for three yrs. And they are heading towards good careers etc. Getting baby days out tge way and then getting stuck into a career can be a good way to do it.

Dp and i had our ds1 at uni. Preg at 19 i was 20 when he was born. Dp two yrs older. Ds1 turns 14 next month! Dp and i still together, mortgage, career, four more children smile all planned
.. Well no five was a bit of a bonus baby but a girl after the four boys and a lovrly suprise smile.

Our life is good, we both finished our degrees. We didnt have support from family, def no childcare etc as too far away.

I do hope her supporyuve, mine tried to gey me to abort, i understand her making me aware if the option but not going on/ptessuring like she did sad she loves ds1 and all the kids of course but i wont ever forget her reaction and it does make me sad.

Good luck and congratulations grandma!

badfaketan Thu 11-Jul-13 20:45:16

It will be fine.
23 is young,but not that young.
And it sounds like if they both qualify,they will be a doctor and a vet so both high earners and more than able to support a family.
However in the early years these are demanding careers so try and be there as much as you can to help them out and be hands on.
I think you have an amazing opportunity.It will be lovely to be a young-ish grandparent and they will really value your support,especially if the other side aren't enthusiastic.

peteypiranha Thu 11-Jul-13 20:47:54

23 isnt young in the slightest. We were same age and we had been married 3 years by then. A large majority of my friends had children by that age.

ImperialBlether Thu 11-Jul-13 20:49:34

zigzoo, it was specialsubject who mentioned conditional contraception, not the OP.

belatedmaybe Thu 11-Jul-13 20:49:52

I did congratulate you up thread too grandma. Really hope it goes well although I think you giving up work to care for a child they have decided on would bear further discussion!

rempy Thu 11-Jul-13 20:50:40

She's a medic?? She has 2 years post degree to get onto the medical register undertaking "foundation training" which, whilst the hours aren't as long and anti-social as they used to be, they are really quite tough - that's where you actually start to learn the craft. And when I say not as long or anti-social as they used to be I mean 48 hours a week, with nights, lates and weekend working, often on a 1:7 - so that's a weekend a month of either long days or nights. Rotas often at short notice (4 weeks), changing post every 4 months, usually within a hospital, but sometimes between hospitals and the community.

Your performance is quite closely monitored, and your performance dictates how likely you are to enter the specialist training scheme you want to enter.

Training less than full time possible, but educationally is perhaps not ideal at the very early "steep" part of the learning curve. It also takes a long time to set up, and you may be turned down or advised against it if the deanery feel that they can't support it.

So whilst she isn't young in age, she is extremely "youthful" in her professional career, and this as a change in circumstance is going to impact totally on her professional life.

It occurs to me that she may actually not want to practise clinically, and this is going to make it "too hard". Without contraception a young couple have an 86% chance of being pregnant at the end of a year. They will have known that. (lecture 1 reproductive medicine!)

It is certainly a very unusual course of action/accident in the cohort of people that end up in medical school.

You will work this out though, and as others have said, you need to separate your regret for the imagined lost opportunities from the situation you face. And having youthful grandparents will be fabulous for baby GrandmaWeLoveYou! No sitting in the gloom watching the cricket on the telly! You'll be spin bowling!

peteypiranha Thu 11-Jul-13 20:51:44

They will get their childcare paid, they can carry on their studies as if nothing has happened. Dh and I had our first at 23 whilst we were both students I gave birth, had 10 days off and got a 2.1. You can do anything when your young, because you dont get tired.

zigzoo Thu 11-Jul-13 20:53:41

Sorry OP - my mistake re funding being conditional on contraception.

I do sense some element of conditionality surrounding your financial support?

DS will have to join DH's practice straight after qualifying?

hotbot Thu 11-Jul-13 20:56:53

Hmm sounds like life won't change for them at all once the baby arrives. Not surprised that they are still young for their their years if they have had everything done for them. Perhaps this baby will be th emailing of them, I firmly believe that every baby is a gift..


TheBookofRuth Thu 11-Jul-13 20:57:07

I haven't read the whole thread, so forgive me if I've missed something important, but I just wanted to tell you something.

My mum had me at 22, whilst still at university and like your DS had lovely supportive parents who were able to put their deep disappointment to one side (she was the first in the family to get to uni) and help her with me.

I grew up with two wonderful grandparents who I adored, but I was especially close to my grandma. She was like a second mum to me, and when my own daughter arrived a year after she died, I named her after her.

I wish you a beautiful grandchild who will love you just as much smile

hotbot Thu 11-Jul-13 20:57:14

Sorry be the making of them

SunshineBossaNova Thu 11-Jul-13 20:58:13


My DSis had her lovely son at 23 - he is known as 'the happy accident'. She and DBIL were both unemployed, had nowhere to live... it was a terrifying time for them. Long story short, DNephew is 18 this year, DSis and DBIL are happily married and have another child... and my parents are besotted with both children. (As am I smile)

You and your DH sound like lovely grandparents in waiting. flowers

hotbot Thu 11-Jul-13 20:59:19

The book of ruth, that is lovely , I really have a tear in my eye, wishing the same for grandma we love you.

Whitamakafullo Thu 11-Jul-13 21:02:28

Congratulations! I was a mother of 2 at 23, although they were both planned.

I do know a few people who have had unplanned pregnancies at an early age, and everything turned out just fine for them. You take what you are given in life, and you adapt and deal with it smile

fabulousfoxgloves Thu 11-Jul-13 21:03:53

Have not read whle thread, just wanted to say, please do be supportive, do not mention the word abortion. My mother was perfectly horrible to dsis when she got pg early in a relationship in her early 20s, and his parents pressured her to have an abortion. Her baby was stillborn at term. Fifteen years later and she is struggling with infertility.

What if this is your only shot at being a grandma? Because with all the knowledge, technology and ideas about choice in the world, we do not really ever control reproduction.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Thu 11-Jul-13 21:07:18

zigzoo Where does the using certain contraception = support come from ?!
Also, our parenting has made him a lovely, caring man albeit a bit immature but that's just him. He's a high acheiver vis a vis studies and will now be forced to become a real grown up and father.
We have 4 DSs who are polite and caring and intelligent and hardworking (ad nauseum).
I have no reason to question my parenting skills, i love my boys, my boys love me......end of .

GrandmaWeLoveYou Thu 11-Jul-13 21:15:06

rempy You're voicing my same opinion.
She's a devout catholic, can kind of (just kindof) understand choice of contraception.
But it's a huge risk, she must have known.
DS will have gone along with what she said was cool, but FFS he should have known better!
What's the rush? She's very driven yet has potentially jepodised her career.
They won't have done it on purpose, of that i'm sure, but for God's sake there ways of avoiding this.
They're coming here tomorrow afternoon..............let's see.

Xales Thu 11-Jul-13 21:20:44

If it makes you feel better I got a text from my D niece a couple of hours ago as she is off for a c section.

My sister will be a nan for the 6th time. My sister will be 40 in December grin

ImperialBlether Thu 11-Jul-13 21:23:19

OP, just to say again (I said it upthread), I hope they're not going to tell her mum and dad whilst everyone else is there. I think it would be very, very hurtful for them.

I'd find the pregnancy hard to deal with but being told like that would be very painful.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Thu 11-Jul-13 21:35:06

ImperialBlether It was already arranged that DIL's parents would come here at the weekend. THEY want to announce it here......we shall either act suprised or say we found out in the morning (the happy couple are staying here).
DS and girlfriend shall dictate proceedings, i'm very uncomfortable with this.
I think that DIL should have told her parents before us (tradition ??)
Anyway, they arrive tomorrow, we'll see what happens.
DH feels uncomfortable too.
It's upto DS to step up to the plate, we can't do anything.

ImperialBlether Thu 11-Jul-13 21:44:49

Perhaps you could reinforce how uncomfortable it makes you feel. Maybe they think her parents will cope better if you're there. If that's the case, I would act really shocked, as though you didn't know anything about it.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Thu 11-Jul-13 21:58:45

Don't think we're Am Dram candidates!!! We'd look like a pair of twats!
We'll get rid of other DCs and make it just the 6 of us around the table (this is my ideal) then DIL will tell her parents and we'll all sit there and suffer the fallout!
Let's see what idea they have. I know she's crapping herself at the idea of telling her parents.
I think her Mum will be fine but her Dad'll go ballistic.
Can't cope with the thought of it..........they should have phoned them and told them today, then at least they'd be in the loop.
They never really approved of DS anyway and now it's like the point of no return.
(shitty crappy twuntin shit)

Dozer Thu 11-Jul-13 22:50:08

They are being very unfair on both their parents to tell one set in front of others who already know. I would insist on them phoning or visiting them privately, and postpone the get together so that everyone has time to absorb the news. why shouldyou have to deal with reactions to their news? Cowardly!

Several things for you to think about.

They should definitely tell her parents without you present, and you have every right to insist that they do.

Chances are that something offensive may be said and if they are going to not be happy, being on the backfoot would make it so much worse. If I were her mother I would feel humiliated that you knew first about her daughter's pregnancy, regardless of/especially because of the obvious question mark that puts over the mother/daughter relationship.

They are young but they are adults, and have been for several years, regardless of your views about their maturity. Life is for learning.

I became a mother at 20 (planned) and DD is going to make me a grandmother soon. I am also 47.

DSS became a father at 14. That's too young. But he's a far better father than you could ever imagine.

Cerisier Thu 11-Jul-13 23:26:26

Another vote for the couple talking to her parents privately. Her parents are going to be very upset and it is bound to come out that you already knew. It is not a good start for the baby. It will all work out as these things always do, but emotions will be raw until the little person actually arrives.

Congratulations to you and DH, it sounds like you will both be there to help and to enjoy your grandchild. The baby might be arriving a bit earlier than planned, but how wonderful that he or she is on their way.

Although it is understandable DIL would like to shelter behind a group situation they will effectively be ambushing her parents with this. They will be in shock, in someone else's house and it will appear everyone else already knows some most precious information about their DD Don't think for a moment it won't come out they you already knew for even a short time, this is too big. It is their news but your house and if you go along with this you would potentially be colluding in what they will see as thier exclusion. You will all be grandparents for life, no point in setting it up to fail right away.

DIL will know her parents best, but if it's the father who is likely to make most fuss she may be better off taking the traditional route of telling her DM who can then deal with DF in advance. Congratulations to all smile

TheSecondComing Fri 12-Jul-13 00:12:32

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Fri 12-Jul-13 00:16:54

Tbh if she is too scared to tell her parents without trying to hide behind your skirts, then she isn't ready to be a mother.

I think you have the absolute right to be very firm and say that you expect her parents to have been told before they arrive at your house.

CatsAndTheirPizza Fri 12-Jul-13 00:24:43

fabulous that's such a sad story sad

Zigzoo re 'DS will have to join DH's practice straight after qualifying?' if they live in a rural location and the grandparents are being asked to look after the baby, then I imagine there will only be one veterinary or doctor's surgery locally, so it would make sense.

antimatter Fri 12-Jul-13 01:01:04

my SIL had her ds1 at 1st year at med School, second after 3rd year
her dh was working - she was studying and finished her studies in 5 years as pllanned, then went to do the rest of the qualifications becoming a Consultant 6 years later. I remember her boys staying at my PIL's for weekends, half terms and holidays when he dh was travelling for work and she was trying to squeeye in as many nights. I don't know if rules changed now, but my SIL was able to do it. She got very high grades in all courses etc

I think let them get used to this idea of having to plan from now on.

If she was a a devout catholic she would not engage in sex before marriage - he parents are and that is why she is scarred to talk to them.

I think however as it has been mentioned in the thread her training will be a nightmare if they decide to settle in the location whee your DH practice is.

They have to be very flexible for many years to come as to when and how she continues her education/career. I think her parents predicted reaction as well as knowledge of all of that is making them very stressed.

nemno Fri 12-Jul-13 01:27:16

Congratulations Grandma. For you I think this will be wonderful , you sound like you'll be a lovely Grandma and being as young as you are it is very likely you'll have a long and special bond with your grandchild.

But I would be gutted too, not because of their ages but because of the stage they are in their particular degrees. It will probably work out ok but it will be much harder, and which parent wants their child to do it hard?

Good luck with the forthcoming weekend. I too would wish that the GF's parents be told separately from you and your husband.

Wibblypiglikesbananas Fri 12-Jul-13 02:16:23

Gosh, this must have come as quite a shock for all concerned and you've only had a day to get your head around a very different vision of your son's future than the one you no doubt had mapped out.

However, whilst I can see how you could be upset, your son and his GF are adults and a lot of your worries seem to be based on what YOU think is appropriate or best for them. Surely it's up to them to make their own decisions re what they do regarding their careers, finances, childcare options further down the line and so on? This applies equally to her parents - even if they are appalled beyond measure - so what?! Your DS and his GF have the right to live the life they choose, even if it doesn't match up to parental expectations.

I hope that the family meeting goes smoothly and wish all of you well.

hesterton Fri 12-Jul-13 05:09:00

I am rather envious. My wonderful and beautiful grand daughter (born to ds2 who I had at 23 and his lovely DW) lives overseas where they work. I would simply love to see more of them.

If you're not too pushy or critical - and I don't think you will be - you have every chance of being an active and involved, much loved granny and grandpa.

And it may be the making of you immature 23 year old son to grow up into parenthood. I assume he is 100% with her? Do you think he'll shape up? I love seeing my son with his daughter, so loving and gentle and tender. It makes me so proud.

Let them get on with it. Offer what support you are genuinely willing to give then step back. It's their baby.

QueenofWhispers Fri 12-Jul-13 05:28:55

My DH and I were married at 22 and 23; we had our first at 24. Although we had finished with Uni by the time we were married--my MIL felt the same way you do and didn't really make the effort with my DS.

DS happened to have ASD...she was dramatic about becoming a grandmother too young when he was born, and when he was diagnosed with ASD she acted like it had happened to her despite her never making any effort towards my son. Sadly, she confused ASD with the inability to comprehend so my DS who is going on 5 has a very acute idea of what his Grandmother is like without anyone ever saying anything. He thinks of her as a 'selfish drama-mama' who drives him 'batty'.

My advice: Love the child unconditionally; he had nothing to do with being born and at least your son is in a stable relationship--and he wants to be a part of this family. I don't think you should have to support them financially--but I do think you need to give boundless love, affection and any emotional support.

kickassangel Fri 12-Jul-13 05:30:48

First of all, congratulations.

Secondly, your name makes me think of some white haired old dear, then you g and swear like a trooper! That made me smile.

WetGrass Fri 12-Jul-13 05:47:22

I had Dd at 23 (DH same age). One year out of uni.

Compared to antenatal group friends that had DC at 30+

1) I didn't feel pressured to return to work too soon - because I was junior - and (tbh) because I hadn't got out of the student habit of living on fresh air and sunshine - so I was still in the 'low salary - low commitments' life stage.

2) GP both sides had great relationship with Dd (they were fit and compos mentis ) - which in turn meant that I felt much less isolated than some of my mummy peers.

3) I bounced back into shape easily

4) I've gone on to have 4 DC in total - with enough time back in the office in between to still be on track for FTE 50K wage (when I finish the latest round of training).

5) DH & I hadn't got too used to living like wealthy Londoners! We knuckled down to it with (ironically) much less 'goodbye my fragile youth' teeth gnashing than people who had had time to develop a lifestyle that doesn't work with kids.

6) We felt pressured and poor a decade ago - but now I'm 33, choosing secondary schools for Harry-Potter mad Dd, starting to enjoy the benefits of DHs (now 6 figure) salary.

Strongly yy to supporting (both of them!) in achieving their professional qualifications. It will be a tough first few years - but so are most people's first few parenting years. Long term - it can be fab.


Honestly, it will be fine. We had DD at 21, she is roundly adored by everyone. I get lots of parenting compliments from MIL, DH finished his degree and has a well paid job.

Which is not to say it wasn't hard sometimes, and I think you are very kind and considerate to be thinking of ways to support them.

Good luck to you all.

Sounds like they are really worried about telling her parents. And as much as they are adults now this is one of those moments where maybe you need to treat them with more care and ensure you are extra supportive while they do something they are very nervous about. Make it clear you are there for them no matter what.

CheerfulYank Fri 12-Jul-13 07:55:31

I got pregnant at 24 and everyone seemed to think that was frightfully young. confused I told my mother over the phone (I'd just, three weeks before, married the man she begged me not to so we were a bit frosty with each other) and she said "I'll have to call you back!" and hung up the phone! She was 47 too, and not ready at all.

Now DS is almost 6 and she thinks the sun rises and sets on that boy, I swear she does. smile She lives 5 hours away and calls or skypes him every day, has him for weekends whenever I'll agree, comes to visit more than she ever did before, etc. She just adores him, as well as 7 week old DD. smile And as for that man she begged me not to marry, she's never stopped telling me in these six years what a good father he is and how lucky I am to have him.

It will all be fine. They'll figure it out. You'll love it. Big congrats from me! flowers

CheerfulYank Fri 12-Jul-13 07:58:34

Also it's been lovely, my parents being in their late 40's when I started having children. They can do so much with my DC that they couldn't if they were 20 or 30 years older.

CheerfulYank Fri 12-Jul-13 08:01:45

Also (sorry to fill up your thread) I was a pretty immature 24 year old. Didn't know what I wanted to do, DH and I were just renting a place and all that. We shaped up pretty quickly as we had to. We made our decisions based on what would be best for our baby and it really gave us direction.

I love our life now, our house and our work and the little town we moved to. I don't know where we'd have ended up or what decisions we'd have made without DS. I'm so glad we got our "surprise"! smile

spacegoat Fri 12-Jul-13 08:14:44

Another here who became a mother unexpectedly young.

Yes accidents can still happen. I was on the pill, took it religiously, can't remember any sickness or anything which would have made not work etc.

That was 16 years ago. We've had another child, got married and are successful with a great home life.

Having our dc's made us grow up very quickly. Now, we are several
steps ahead of our peers because we bought houses, were more serious about careers and money earlier ... we had to be!

Every one worried about us, naturally enough. But we were adults (23) and we did shape up.

After all we had been brought up by parents who we looked up to.

TheRealFellatio Fri 12-Jul-13 08:28:26

I understand how you feel and I'd feel the same. Except that at 23, with degrees under their belts, I'd be feeling trepidation and mild disappointment rather than devastation and blind fear.

I currently wake up sweating at night for fear of my 18 year old son announcing the same thing. Without giving out enough info to out myself, his 17 yo girlfriend is showing all the classic symptoms of a PG 'accident' waiting to happen, and no matter how much I try to reason with him, he is adamant there is no need for him to use condoms because she is on the pill, and I am just some mad, controlling, snobby, interfering cow who knows nothing about anything, apparently. hmm

I would be devastated (for her, and for the child as much as for him - I don't think she a clue about just how flaky and selfish my son can be. She thinks he's Prince Charming and the answer to all her (many) troubles, but ultimately he will dump her or cheat on her, baby or no baby.) But I have sort of resigned myself to the inevitable, to be honest. I'm long past thinking I can talk any sense into that boy about anything.

Perhaps it's her I should be working on!

CheerfulYank Fri 12-Jul-13 08:28:30

Now, we are several steps ahead of our peers because we bought houses, were more serious about careers and money earlier ... we had to be!

Exactly many of my friends are beginning to panic now that we're in our early 30's. So much "what am I doing, I'm never going to find a man, should I have children..." and we've been married and settled with children in our own house for quite awhile. DH's career is locked down and we're doing better financially than most of our friends.

7to25 Fri 12-Jul-13 08:31:07

I think they can get 85% of child are paid, but we are in Scotland , so it may be different here

VivaLeBeaver Fri 12-Jul-13 08:37:24

I was 23 when I had dd, I was financially stable but hadn't been seeing dh long at all. That was 13 years ago.

Yes I'm younger than most of the mums of dd's classmates but I loved having dd at that age. And I really love the fact that now as she's getting more independent I'm still in my late mid 30s.

Having a child doesn't mean it's the end of your life. I went back to uni and did a second degree when dd was 4yo. I'm going to uni again in sept for post grad study. I've built up a good degree.

I've had time for hobbies, etc.....enjoyed life to the full - have gone travelling and festivals etc, just taken dd with us!

When dd is 18 ill be 42/43. Plenty of time to carry on enjoying life.

siezethenight Fri 12-Jul-13 08:45:50

op My daughter is due a baby any day now - she is 22 her partner 25. She has quite literally just finished college and has no job yet but qualified to work after maternity time off.
I can't be upset by this news because over the last 5 years we have lost a lot of family members to sudden death and illness. Its been a horrible last few years. I did not jump up and down in joy when she told me she was having a baby but it is not terrible news, its happy news, after a lot of bereavement, you learn to appreciate some good news smile A birth is preferable to a death sad
So they are young? This only means their lives will alter a little bit - they will have more freedom in their 40's rather than in their 20's...
I have always thought this: If you are going to struggle, if times are going to be tough - rather it be when you are young enough to manage it all rather than a little too old to be able to believe you can change anything. I know people in their 40's today who had children late and are struggling in this financial climate, just the same as the young parents are and they are far more disillusioned with it all - the young have this positive air about them that only youth have thanks to time on their side...
Love your little Grandchild - that's all that matters and I am sure that you will smile

DowntonTrout Fri 12-Jul-13 08:48:20

Just wanted to say my DD and her DH had my first grandchild 3 weeks ago. DD is 20. I went through all kinds of feelings and emotions. Unfortunately we have had a very difficult couple of years with her and were not on the best of terms.

I was devastated at first, angry, disappointed for all the opportunities she has lost. I was worried about how they would cope, could only see it becoming my problem in the future.

DGS is the most adorable, cute little man in the world- and NO ONE can tell my any different grin.

There are still problems and issues to be overcome, I won't go into detail, it would be too long a story. But now he is here, I have hope that things will be ok in the end. Good luck.

DowntonTrout Fri 12-Jul-13 08:49:34

Oh, and I am 44 and I have an 11yo still at home.

Hi op. I agree with those who are saying the girlfriend's parents should be told privately and not put in such a horrid position as being told such big news in front of people who already know. Perhaps they want to do it this way so as to limit the reactions of her parents. Not fair at all.

In your position I would insist that they are told before they turn up for the barbecue. Otherwise you are all being put in a very awkward position.

Although it is great that you and your dh are prepared to offer help, these young people must be able to take responsibility for this themselves and make their own decisions. And don't let your dh offer your services. That is up to you.

They will grow up fast, because they have to.

jacksgrannie Fri 12-Jul-13 09:05:22

Congratulations Grandma! You are not alone in having mixed feelings about the news. I was the same. Although my son was older (32) his very new wife (whirlwind romance) was only 22 and still at uni when they had their accident. They had had very little time together, no money and a tiny house. When they told us I was so worried that their lives would be so much harder than it need have been.

Fast forward 6 years (I came round to the idea of being a grandma very quickly by the way). We did have to help them both out with childcare while DIL finished her studies and in other ways but it has been wonderful to see them cope and of course of DGS is the most cherished and perfect child in the universe.

You sound like a lovely family - enjoy every minute of being a grandma.

Ragwort Fri 12-Jul-13 09:17:52

I admit I would be very disappointed in your shoes, it's all very well for everyone to say 'it will be fine' but these are two young people, doing very intensive vocational degrees - it will not be 'easy' for them to look after a child - either physically or financially -whilst they are both doing full time degrees and then presumably lots of training before qualifying.

And for your DH to offer to support them financially and suggest you give up work to care for the baby seems somewhat over generous. hmm

But then I am an old fogey who had my child at 43 grin - younger members of my extended family have had children in their teens/early 20s and quite honestly it has all ended in great unhappiness all round (social services involvement etc).

I really hope it all works out for you but there is nothing to be ashamed of by expressing your views on an anonymous internet forum; absolutely agree that they GD's parents must be told privately. In fact I would insist on it, how on earth can you have a jolly BBQ with that sort of news?

onefewernow Fri 12-Jul-13 09:28:27

OP I had a child at 19, degree at 24, MA at 25 and PhD at 27. Another child at 27, then a good career.

There is no reason for it not to work out. I have not missed out but I have had to work harder and they need to mature faster.

I do think that Imperialb is right though, I don't think your DH should be such an active planner on their behalf. Let them come to you for help if they want it. Solving their own issues is how they mature. Now they must.

Bonsoir Fri 12-Jul-13 09:32:28

It's very unreasonable of students to bring a child into the world and expect grandparents to fund their family.

outtolunchagain Fri 12-Jul-13 09:34:32

Goodness Grandma what a shock.I know exactly what you mean about not being mature or streetwise,I expect this is the first real adversity either has had to face,yes exams are difficult and they are both obviously high achievers but that is in a very controlled scenario,this is totally unplanned (probably the first unplanned thing they have ever done)and from now on in pretty much out of their control.Its going to be hard

The thing is being good at school and hardworking etc can also leave you quite lacking in common sense,I'm not criticising its partly a fault in the system which ensures that often you have to be quite tunnel visioned ,I also have a high achiever who struggles with this and was probably one myself .The thing is they are going to have to grow up very fast,they made the spectacularly bad decision to have unprotected sex and this is the fairly obvious consequence,your dh is rushing to make everything OK to make sure that they can still do all the things they and you planned for ,and that is hugely supportive but they actually need to be made to face some of this themselves because in 6 months time they will be parents themselves.

The first thing is that they need to take responsibility for telling her parents themselves,frankly her parents have a right to worry if the parents to be can't even face telling them about the pregnancy,it doesn't make them look as if they would be mature enough to cope with another life does it ,what are they going to do if the baby turns out to have health problems etc etc.

You sound like the most fantastic parents yourselves and will have given your ds a great model to base his new family on , I am sure they will be fine ,they will muddle through and they have you and each other .Good Luck

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 11:23:55

Bonsoir They're not expecting anything. We shall do what we can to support them but they must also grow up.
I seem to remember that we live in the same part of the student grants etc. We have the obligation to support our DS until he finishes his degree. (no bourse, nothing).
They have indeed been irresponsible but there's no point crying over spilt milk as it were.

We rang DS last night and suggested they go to see GF's parents on the way to us.
They should be there now.

DH basically told DS to "grow a pair" and get on with it.

God knows how they'll react. Ultra religious with firm moral (archaic) values.

(they may suprise us though)

wordfactory Fri 12-Jul-13 11:35:43

op I think I'd be shocked/horrified/saddned if it were mine.

At least initially...I want them to experience so much while they're young... it's just not the same with DC!

That said, I'd soon get over it. It's not tragic in the scheme of things. Just not ideal.

However, I think you definitely should avoid anything that involves sorting this out for them. They need to step up. Support is fantastic, but they need to come to terms with the reality of what's going to happen ASAP...

outtolunchagain Fri 12-Jul-13 11:38:43

Hopefully after the initial shock her parents will see the bigger picture and realise that there are worse things that can happen,ultimately you will all love the baby ,it's amazing how even in adverse circumstances a new life can bring joy.

iclaudius Fri 12-Jul-13 11:44:56

I got pregnant with ds1 when dp ( still not married) was 23 like your ds

It has not been the end of the world although we were poor and felt young - he was not planned

Dp was ALSO doing veterinary science

I was 8 months pg at his graduation

Ds ( the baby) has just graduated from Cambridge ( v proud parents !!) and we have a lot of other children.

Dp career has been good!! MIL who cried down the phone when he told her about DS and treated me with disdain is no longer in our lives ...

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 11:47:06

My MIL is a worry. Not sure she'll be able to keep her views to herself.

I'll be relieved when the whole thing's out in the open and we can just get on with being excited instead of this constant churning of the stomach.

DH and I were talking it through until 5am.
We're both feeling irrational guilt......have we cosseted our kids too much? Are they prepared for the big wide world? Have we ourselves set a good example in our own relationship?
So many more questions.

I think we've always (nearly) done our best and with the best of intentions.
We have prioritised our kids which is fairly usual both in this country and our own religious community.

Could we have done better? Probably.

Anyway, a new era has begun and DH and I will be grandparents (bloody hell!).
Getting excited a bit now.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 11:51:08

iclaudius Thanks for that and big congrats for your DS's graduation, you deserve to be very proud thanks

Can i ask if you were also studying at the time?

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 11:55:04

DowntonTrout Congratulatins on becoming a Grandma, thanks also for your post, you've given me hope that all will be ok. thanks

iclaudius Fri 12-Jul-13 11:56:10

Grandma I was working as although we'd met at university - my course was normal length and dp was longer obviously !!

I love the similarity between your son and us although did he take a gap year??

We have been very happy with no help at all - ds is 21 on four weeks and we are due a new baby this month - our not his!

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 12:09:09

Wierd similarities!
No, he didn't take a gap year, why, would that have matured him?

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 12:12:09

DS 3 is taking a gap year and will be globetrotting as of August.

He's alot more head screwed on and independant than his brothers but at 18 it puts the fear of God into me !!

He's also funding it all himself.

bassingtonffrench Fri 12-Jul-13 12:18:03

congrats. you sound lovely and will be a lovely grandma.

I would be concerned about them taking advantage of you a bit though to be honest. you are only 47 with your own life and other kids to consider.

just be careful about promisng endless money and childcare.

if they are rhythm method users, god knows how many more surprises could be on the horizon!!

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 12:30:58

Just had furtive phone call from DS.

As soon as Mother opened the door DIL burst into tears and spilt the beans.
Good, over and done with!

Father apparently stupified but Mother seemingly supportive.

Early days but am i naive in thinking it bodes well ?

They're staying there tonight and all coming round here tomorrow.

Think i may vomit, i hate confrontation.

Shall just sit their demurely and leave DH to talk.

Bon apetit!

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 12:32:45

Wish they were coming here today as planned.
Can't stand waiting.
Not seen DS for nearly 2 months.

Lighthousekeeping Fri 12-Jul-13 12:35:16

Congratulations! Hopefully the inlaws have been told by now. At least you have had afew days for it to sink in? Are you abroad then? I keep reading this as if you are uk based but then you mention religious communities etc and it starts to sound more hot and exotic! I can see it from her parents viewpoint as medical training requires so much more especially when she is going to me moved all over the shop as part of her training. Even when she is qualified. I don't think being stuck in the countryside is going to be practical for her. Unless the program is different where you are?

Lighthousekeeping Fri 12-Jul-13 12:36:14

Ps what confrontation? It's not your fault!

Futterby Fri 12-Jul-13 12:39:25

I'm 18 years old. I'm also currently pregnant. I've been with my partner since I was 14, and we were using protection (condoms and the pill) when I fell pregnant. We're both university students and to be honest, although money is going to be tight, we'll be absolutely fine.

Just make sure you're there to support your son and his partner as much as you can (I don't mean financially) because my mum has been absolutely invaluable during my pregnancy. She's been there for me 100% and I don't know how I would have coped without her.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 12:54:06

Lighthousekeeping We're abroad but nowhere exotic (just bloody hot at the moment!). DH is one of them foreigners!

As for confrontation, DIL is the youngest of 7. Her Father sees her as the baby of the family (even though by anyone's standards she's a fully fledged woman).

I can imagine that the Father sees my son as the rogue who deflowered his baby girl.
He's never taken to my son. It's a religious issue. At least DIL had the chutzpah to continue the relationship inspite of her Father's evident dissaproval.(sp?)

My DH is usually quite laid back but any slight on his boys and he turns into a loon!

Can't wait for tomorrow (may go into hiding with made up headache)

BangOn Fri 12-Jul-13 12:56:06

Actually op, as others have hinted at here, I think my warning bells are clanging with good reason.

You describe yourself as 'supportive' but how supportive is it to post on an public forum, in great detail the circumstances surrounding another woman's pregnancy? How supportive is it to make this really important, life changing event so much about you, when really you should be accepting that you are now a peripheral figure in someone else's pregnancy? How supportive is it to offer to give up work to look after this child, but to offer that help with conditions, as though you're negotiating with a couple of naughty toddlers? I know you're not taking criticism well but surely you didn't expect a thread full of posts only viewing things from your point of view?

I think you and dh need to take a big step back & watch your dh & dil make a go of things under their own steam. They're not young, they're a perfectly normal age to be starting a family, planned or otherwise.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 12:56:46

Futterby Congratulations.
You sound extreemly mature and capable of bringing up a child and being a fantastic Mum.

Your own Mum sound brilliant, you're very lucky indeed.

All the best for the months to come, Motherhood is one of the greatest gifts. thanks

ByHecuba Fri 12-Jul-13 12:56:58

Have been lurking, so I'm glad to hear her parents have been told with minimal fuss.

One thing I wanted to suggest is that your fears about your son's immaturity may be unfounded. My own DH reverts to a 14 year old every time he discusses anything with his parents. Apparently, all his carefully thought-out points go out of the window and there he is, being advised by his Dad, yet again.

We all revert to childhood patterns of behaviour/the same family dynamics when with our relatives, so he could be a very different person when away from you.

I think if your son knows that you still see him as immature, senses your lack of confidence in him, he will probably act accordingly when around you.

FWIW, I'm 26.
The birth of my now 14moDD has been the most life-enriching thing ever to happen to me. I cannot see how any extra years spent with a loved one can ever be considered wasted.

Congratulations again.

I had DS1 at 22, and DS2 at 24. DH was 24 and 26. We coped, and are still together 13 years later. It'll be fine.

Lighthousekeeping Fri 12-Jul-13 13:03:02

Religious issues? Honestly who do they think they are? That would drive me round the bend. Will religious differences be an issue once the baby is born?

I'm also wondering if DIL is committed to medicine? It's going to be terribly hard with a young baby. I'm wondering whether she will change to another science branch that will lead to better money and hours.

Good luck for tomorrow. The FIL sounds like a right barrel of laughs.

Faffette Fri 12-Jul-13 13:06:01

I had my children late in life, I am in my 40s and my youngest is 16 months. And one thing I regret having them so late is that it means I will have less time to spend with them. As ByHecuba says it means your son will have a lot of extra time with his child and that is a good thing.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 13:07:17

BangOn What conditions?!

I'm posting on an annonymous forum! My family all live abroad and have no idea that MN even exists!

Would you rather i kept all this to myself? Can't tell anyone in RL.

This situation isn't all about me but this thread mostly is. (ain't that the point?)

DH and I are standing back.
We're here to listen and give advice when asked for.
DH and I have discussed various options together but are not discussing them with DS and DIL.

This is their life first and foremost but circumstances dictate that they will need some help......we're here to give that help.

The pair of them have had 2 months to cogitate and are still no way near getting their heads around the situation.

Thanks for advice. We'll stand back so bleedin far that they can't see us anymore and feel like we don't give a shit.

I repeat......i found out YESTERDAY!!!!

Please have a biscuit on me

CatsAndTheirPizza Fri 12-Jul-13 13:09:30

I wanted to be supportive yesterday, but it's beginning to sound a wee bit controlling now, and I recognise the sound of controlling parents.

'......have we cosseted our kids too much? Are they prepared for the big wide world? ' - it's an unexpected pregnancy, they've not murdered anyone.

'We rang DS last night and suggested they go to see GF's parents on the way to us' this man is going to be saving lives, or livestock, within a five year timeframe - I'm sure he make some decisions himself.

'DH basically told DS to "grow a pair" and get on with it.' - nice.

wordfactory Fri 12-Jul-13 13:09:54

Bangon the OP only heard the news yesterday!

She was and still is shocked. How many of us would treat the news of an unexpected pregnancy between two students with unadulterated glee?

Working out her feelings and indeed the practicalities on an anonymous forum is far better than doing it in real life where emotions can run high.

And tbh, it's not as if the OP and her DH have no involvement here. Her son and DIL are not independent. Not remotely. They are completely financially dependent on their families They probably don't even have anyhwere to live. If both are to continue with their studies then their parents will have to help. No choice.

This pregnancy will, in reality, impact upon the OP and her DH.

ByHecuba Fri 12-Jul-13 13:19:42

Fafettesad; I hope I didn't sound smug or self-satisfied in the above.
Things could easier for Dh and me, cash-wise, but I know we were lucky to have DD when we did, as many can't for various reasons.
It does get my goat when people see loving family relationships- namely those with our children- as peripheral concerns and distractions from the 'important' things in life, such as a good career. None of us know what is going to happen tomorrow (sorry for the cliché,) so as we are not anywhere near suffering through poverty, I would rather we had her now than in ten years time.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 13:22:39

CatsAndTheirPizza Have you actually read this thread? (with the exception of your choice editing of certain phrases?)

Have you been in this situation?

Are you a perfect parent?

If so, sorry for aggression and have a biscuit

wordfactory Fri 12-Jul-13 13:24:53

OP I don't know why people are expecting you to just smile and start knitting!

The reality, as I understand it, is that these two young people have no income and no home. They are entirely dependent.

I'm not quite sure how people envisage this panning out if you just step back...

CatsAndTheirPizza Fri 12-Jul-13 13:30:17

Yes, I have read the thread.

I have also seen first hand the damage that parents paying out for off-spring's education and expecting a return on it can do.

Yes, your reply was agtgre

CatsAndTheirPizza Fri 12-Jul-13 13:31:07

Hit 'post' too early ...

Yes, your reply was aggressive.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 13:31:46

wordfactory I just think MN is becoming more and more snidey on even the most innocuous of threads.

Shame because it discourages people from posting who may really need the support.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 13:33:05

CatsAndTheirPizza What return ??

I really don't get your posts.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 13:36:12

I think i get the "return" thing.....
when DS qualifies i'll get free Vet service if ever my fuckin cat chokes on pizza.

(perks of being his mum)

wordfactory Fri 12-Jul-13 13:38:23

I think you're projecting cats!

Where has the OP said she expects anything for funding her DS university studies?

All she has said is that where she lives, she has to fund it and that her DS can't get a job in addition to his studies.

If he is to carry on with his studies, then OP and her DH will have to continue supporting DS plus a baby and possibly their DIL, until such point as she can work or go back to her studies (presuming her parents will continue to suppoprt her financially).

Orchidlady Fri 12-Jul-13 13:44:29

Grandma I totally understand your concerns. My DS is only 22 and has 2 kids, he loves them to bits and works very hard to provide for them. But I do worry that he has missed on being young and free before settling down to this. Also I have to say and will probably get slammed for saying this but I was not over thrilled at being made a Grandma, I still have a young son to provide for, work a 40 hour week but expected to be the grandma and enjoy it.

CatsAndTheirPizza Fri 12-Jul-13 13:45:47

Not projecting actually - just reading the words on my screen.

I haven't time to rake through examples, but I'm not the only person to react like this to the thread. There are plenty of threads on here that are full of nothing but support.

DuelingFanjo Fri 12-Jul-13 13:47:48


"DH already talking about my giving up work to look after baby"

erm. NO! they are adults. And you don't even know if that's what they want. Personally I think you need to leave them to it, offer help and hope that they manage to get stuff sorted for their family between themselves.

A grandchild though, eh smile how lovely.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Fri 12-Jul-13 13:55:14

Grandma don't feel you have to sit in the naughty corner, people have their own views, we probably all project somewhat, at least you can spill here and get it off your chest.

Congratulations, hope all goes well for DS and DIL flowers.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 13:59:33

DuelingFanjo Thanks for the congrats.

DH has come up with many, many ideas over the past 24 hours.
Most are crazy! He's very pragmatic and still feels responsible for DS's well being (he had a nasty childhood himself).

Personally i'm not thinking past tomorrow. I want to hug them both and reassure them that we're here.

As for giving up work (which i enjoy) way José!!!
I'd contribute for childcare but i'm not ready to become a full time nursemaid!
Been there, done that.

chenin Fri 12-Jul-13 13:59:45

Grandma... I totally get where you're coming from. You only heard yesterday and it will take some while to get used to this idea. I have DCs similar age and I won't pretend ... I would be absolutely gutted if they come home and told me this news. They are only just beginning to make their way in the world, they don't have plans to have children yet, they are in some ways grown up... in other ways not and personally I am not ready to be a grandparent. (although it's not my choice and when it happens, it happens..)

You sound level headed, wise and supportive to your DS and his girlfriend. When your kids are younger you imagine that any time they tell you they are going to be a parent will be OK, but in fact when you get to the time they are just late teens or early twenties, you realise that maybe they haven't quite matured enough for parenthood. Of course you/we embrace whatever happens, but it doesn't mean you can't be a bit taken aback and in shock!

skylerwhite Fri 12-Jul-13 14:01:45

Congratulations Grandma - I'm sure it's a lot to take in and your mind is probably whirring around with questions. You sound like a devoted mother, and I'm sure you will be a great grandmother. It's great that you managed to get your DS and DIL to tell her parents in private and in their own space. I think that's a good start.

I do, however, agree with some of the sentiments that you need to allow your DS and DIL to step up and take responsibility and make their own choices for what will become their own family. It'll be hard for them, I'm sure, but if they are in the country I think they are in, there is very good maternity provision and excellent family support - which I think your DIL should be able to access from the fourth month of her pregnancy.

My alarm bells also jangled with a few comments about religious communities, and comments you made about your DIL's parents' religious beliefs. I gather that your religious identity is very important to your life, but I hope that whatever religion your DGS/DGD is brought up with won't become a bone of contention between the two families.

Faffette Fri 12-Jul-13 14:08:13

ByHecuba, you did not sound smug at all! Well, not to me anyway.

Faffette Fri 12-Jul-13 14:12:15

Really having babies is one of the greatest thing you can do (unless you don't want children). It is life just like starting a career is or traveling, and it will make them grow in a different way.

Orchidlady Fri 12-Jul-13 14:18:35

hellie Excellent post. I know for a fact that my DS and his girlfriend are not mature enough and expect and awful lot of support, but are doing a good job. I am worried for the future

Jacaqueen Fri 12-Jul-13 14:20:26

OK reading between the lines and making huge assumptions here.

The girl (woman) is from a devout Catholic family. Your son is Jewish?

Her parents were probably hoping the relationship would not go the distance and she would eventually marry a Catholic. From their point of view is it terrible that she is pregnant and not married, or is it made even worse because of your sons religion.

Do you think her parents will push for them to get married?

Hopefully by the time you all meet up both sides will have had time to take in the information. By the sounds of it her Mum will be supportive. I think understandably, her father may take some time to come round to the idea.

Good luck with it all.

Viking1 Fri 12-Jul-13 14:28:47

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Fri 12-Jul-13 14:30:26

Congratulations flowers

You are understandably shell shocked and I think people can be very judgey. I hope all goes well tomorrow.

Sorry, I've read all your posts (I think) but not everyone's. Is your DS ready for the possibility that his GF's family may be expecting tomorrow's family gathering to be for the purpose of a proposal? If they already know and are religious, then they may assume this? Is it something that they have considered?

Good on you for not assuming you will give up work to be free childcare? It is great to be supportive, but not the expectation that grandparents - and particularly grandmothers- give up their own lives for free childcare.

mrscog Fri 12-Jul-13 14:39:49

Congratulations thanks, You sound lovely and I am a bit shock at some of the horrible comments you have had on this thread.

It will all pan out for the best and you'll be a lovely grandma and continue to be a lovely support for your DS.

MrsOakenshield Fri 12-Jul-13 15:17:30

you never know, it could end up with you, DH and the ILs plonking yourselves down with a vat of wine between you, going 'the rhythm method?!! Pthththth!' whilst DS and DIL drink mineral water and ponder their new responsibilites.

Congratulations Grandma smile

Your son, while no longer a child, is still your child. In my opinion it is very hard to be a passive bystander when someone you love experiences something that will have such a profound effect on the rest of his life. Particularly when you have already experienced that "something" and are fully aware of the emotional and physical changes that it will bring.

There is nothing wrong with being there for your adult offspring when they need you. My mother still calls me "child" when we talk and I'm 45. It doesn't mean she sees me as a child.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 15:51:16

Jacaqueen Got it in one.

Religion does play a minor part in our lives, more tradition than religion.

I always imagined a Jewish DIL who would pass down tradition to my grandchildren, that's not to be, so be it.

Religion plays an enormous part in my DIL's family life.
I understand their opposition to my DS (though i don't agree).
They won't be able to marry in church (synagogue would be out of the question).

Complicated. I shall not however apologise for DS's heritage.
He may want to convert, so be it.

The parents i hope shall see both sides...our grandchild will not be Jewish, it's not our priority. (But is a little sad, i'm sorry if that offends but am just expressing my feelings)

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 16:05:08

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom I don't think a proposal is on the cards, there again he's full of suprises at the moment.

Better get the champagne in just incase!

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 16:07:43

Viking1 Shall wax lyrical on how i was also 23 when had DS and what a joy it was wink confused

libertine73 Fri 12-Jul-13 16:11:36

Grandma you sound absolutely lovely and your DIL is going to be lucky to have you as a MIL.

they sound like intelligent strong minded individuals, they got together against her parents wishes, so am sure they can weather this new storm!

congratulations from me too!

StupidMistakes Fri 12-Jul-13 16:16:08

My mum was 41 when she had me and 36 when she had my sister so the other end of the scale isnt any better, because at age just 24 i have been left with no father <he died when i was 15months from thoat cancer> and i lost my mum in may also to cancer, bottomline is there is never a right time to have a child, if you waited for the perfect time, it just wouldnt happen, its not necessarily going to be easy for either of them, all you can do is support them through it, this is their lives and much as you want to make the best decisions for them, they have to make their own even if it hurts you. xx

Lighthousekeeping Fri 12-Jul-13 16:39:18

I said about the religion ages ago!!! nobody listens too me.let us know how it goes tomorrow x

drivinmecrazy Fri 12-Jul-13 16:50:19

Have just read the whole thread, and GrandmaWeLoveYou I think you saound fantastic.

Cannot relate to your situation ( DDs just 7 & 12) but have been in tears reading because we had our DDs later. I was 29 & 33. Very unfortunately my fantastic DF died when my youngest was only 2 1/2. It is a constant regret that she does not remember how much her Grandpa loved her. Had no idea how life was going to go but IF I had of known he would have died so early I surely would have had my girls earlier. Our eldest has such lovely, magical, enchanted memories of her Grandpa. It's a really magical gift I feel has been denied DD2 because she does not hold those memories.

i hope you and your DH enjoy and cherish making memories your DGC will carry with her/him through life.

What a lucky DGC wine

outtolunchagain Fri 12-Jul-13 16:51:19

Grandma , I think that you sounds a fantastic mum, I have pondering how I would react as a mum of 3 boys to similar news. I hope I would be as sensible and supportive as you are.

Best of luck tomorrow

AdoraBell Fri 12-Jul-13 17:12:26

Grandma you don't need to apologise for your son's heratige and anyone who makes you feel you should is wrong, wrong and wrong again. Not to mention being unreasonable.

Good luck for tomorrow, hopefully GF's parents will be on best behavior for their hosts secretly wonders if that was DS's idea, if so -clever move

Congratulations thanks

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 17:55:44

A close friend has just been round. Just couldn't help myself but tell her the news.

I cried alot and they were tears of joy....eureka!

(Note to self: mustn't tell anyone else)

(Did tell my own DGM last night, i have no mother and she's my surrogate. She was over the moon, a Great Great Grandchild!)

Thankyou all for your lovely (mostly) posts.
This is a wierd experience and one that for me needed sharing.

Once we're given the green light to tell the world then i'll leave you alone.
I have alot of RL support/shared joy, just can't speak yet. (IYSWIM)

3boys3dogshelp Fri 12-Jul-13 17:57:14

Hi grandma and congratulations!

Apologies I haven't read all the posts. I am a vet and one of my friends at uni got pregnant in fourth year (5 year course). She stopped for a year, he carried on and passed with flying colours. It was not a disaster at all. And they had no family nearby to help with childcare, not even in the country. As far as I know they had no family financial support - he took a part time job. Incidentally so did a lot of my friends and still managed the degree fine so it is definitely possible.
I know it's not the situation you would choose for them and their lifestyle will change but they are adults and they will be fine.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 18:51:38

3boys3dogshelp Thanks for your post.

We're not in UK and DS's degree is over 7 years. He still has 2 years to go.

I have no idea of the demands on Vet Science students in UK but over here the pressure is enormous.

DIL has potentially 6 years left to go !!!

Unlike your friends neither of them have had any other responsibility than to study.

I'd love to think that they could continue studying whilst bringing up a child but i hate to say it, i don't think they could. I would so desparately love them to prove me wrong.

The issue of contraception makes my blood boil.
I don't know the score on contraception in the catholic faith, i'm guessing any form is a no no.
Surely sex before marriage is a no no too?

I was never naive enough to imagine that two people in love wouldn't DTD but in my wildest dreams i would never have imagined them to use such a foolish contraceptive in their situation.
DS needs his head testing.

Anyway, what's done is done. wine

outtolunchagain Fri 12-Jul-13 19:20:12

I have to say even the most devout Catholics I know use contraception , interesting that Italy has the lowest birth rate in Europe.

CheerfulYank Fri 12-Jul-13 20:12:06

FWIW I know a lot of children with one Catholic and one Jewish parent, and they manage to combine traditions and beliefs quite well.

My uncle is (nominally) Lutheran and his wife is Jewish, and they are raising their young DD in the Jewish faith but with some Christian traditions.

I think it's perfectly okay to feel sad about your traditions not being passed on, but really there's no reason why they couldn't be. I'm a fairly devout Christian but I think the heritage and history of Judaism is beautiful and if my DH were Jewish I'd be happy to share it with our children. Christians were Jews first, anyway. grin

But that's all for another time, anyway. Congrats! And I hope it goes well with the in-laws.

chenin Fri 12-Jul-13 20:28:43

Grandma, I think you are being very supportive with all of this, really I do. It takes some getting used to... we all want the best for our kids and you've been chucked a curved ball to get used to. You are just being very honest in this thread. I know I would feel the same (having just chatted to one of my DC's - similar age - if I was thrown this curved ball I have NO IDEA how I would feel, I am not sure I would be so magnanimous as you....)

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 21:05:53

CheerfulYank Your Uncle (male) and your Aunt (female) = Jewish DCs.
DS( male) and DIL (female) does not = Jewish DCs

Them's the rules.

Faith/religion will not be an issue for me and DH. (It will be but we'll keep schtum)

So sorry to voice such opinions but heritage is a strong bind to our extended family.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 21:25:39

I sound like a real twunt!

Really, seriously i'm not at all like this in RL.

Voicing one's opinions on an internet forum is nothing like RL.

I'm a mother of 4 DS's who is desperately trying to keep it together.
My faith/heritage is not my number 1 priority.
(this evening is chabbat and i'm all alone, DH working, DSs 2,3,4, at a football do.)

I fear for the future. I fear for my eldest son living a life he doesn't want.

I adore my DIL, she's part of the family already, but i fear for the opportunities she may be giving up.

Of course, all of this is irrelevant, it's done.

I'm coasting between joy and frustration at the moment.

Shall get pissed on gin!

ImperialBlether Fri 12-Jul-13 21:32:28

OP, you said:

Your Uncle (male) and your Aunt (female) = Jewish DCs.
DS( male) and DIL (female) does not = Jewish DCs

I don't understand that, can you explain it please?

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Fri 12-Jul-13 21:34:00

Imperial - I am sure the OP will answer, but in Judaism being Jewish is passed down the maternal line. A jewish mother has jewish children. A non Jewish mother doesn't, even if their father is Jewish.

CheerfulYank Fri 12-Jul-13 21:34:50

Pissed on gin is the answer to all of life's issues! grin

And I know that, I mean, the thing about you being Jewish if your mother is, of course. I just meant that even though he/she won't Jewish in that way, there's no reason that some traditions, etc can't still happen. smile

As I said, my mother was also 47 and hung up on me when I told her she was going to be a grandmother. And now she can't go a day without speaking to my DS. Everything will be all right.

I didn't plan on getting pregnant either. I remember going to buy the test and whispering "please no, please no" to myself or God or the universe at large. It definitely wasn't the life I planned or wanted at the time. But six years on I cannot imagine or want anything else. DS (and now little DD) are my absolute heart.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 21:43:19

ImperialBlether In our branch of Judaism the child's "race"/religion passes down the female line.

My female cousin married out and there was minimum fuss, she brought up her DCs in the Jewish faith.

Another male cousin however married out and his DCs are not considered Jewish as their Mother is Christian.

It is a pretty ridiculous premis. Partners can convert but if not then any Jewish identity for children of non Jewish Mothers is nul and void.

I married a Jewish DH, my children are Jewish.

My DS has got his Catholic girlfriend "up the duff" and my grandchild will not be considered Jewish.

Not the end of the world. We'll love the little beauty all the same, even if he /she ends up going to mass every week!

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 21:46:00

Infact i'll go to mass with them , may learn a thing or two !! wink

ImperialBlether Fri 12-Jul-13 21:48:36

Sorry, I understand now. I knew it passed down the female line. I just hadn't realised that CheerfulYank's aunt was Jewish and the husband wasn't.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 21:54:16

CheerfulYank Am well and truely pissed on gin!!!
We shall (as will DS) unwittingly pass on mamy, many Jewish traditions to our future grandchild.

As i have said before, for us it's more about tradition than religion.

sarine1 Fri 12-Jul-13 22:02:52

Congratulation Grandma.
You're there for your DS and his family to be ... no matter what.
I hope the weekend is less stressful than you perhaps envisage?

NomDeClavier Fri 12-Jul-13 22:10:34

Oh gosh. I think I know where you are and the situation is far more complicated than I think most UK posters can grasp in terms of studies, financial support and religion. And I very much doubt DIL is reading this or ever likely to!

You are understandably shocked, and will probably continue to worry how they'll cope. 23 is relatively young - I had DS at 24 when we were married and had graduated and both had jobs and even though we are in a community where marrying and having children young is the norm (because they're mostly Catholic and it's difficult for spouses to do anything else in certain postings!) it was certainly seen as young by everyone else. I'm now 27 and expecting DC2 and still feeling pretty young...but it works out, and when they do stand on their own two feet there is financial support there and if she can get a childcare place there is again funding and support. It's not impossible.

A child, a grandchild is a wonderful blessing. Focus on that and keep on supporting them. There are plenty of advantages as well as the more obvious difficulties!

Congratulations grandma!

PoppyField Fri 12-Jul-13 22:25:16

Dear OP,
Haven't read the whole thread, but I think you'll make a great Grandma - in fact you probably will make Great Grandma at this rate!

Joking aside, I don't know where you are on this, but I had my first child at 42 after many years of trying, I often wonder where I'd be if I'd had Dcs (now aged 4 and 5) earlier. One thing I do know is that my mum would have been a brilliant 'young Granny'. She is great now, and I rely on her love and support tremendously - but she is 76 and I know she wishes she was more able and more energetic than she is. She, I'm sure, would like to feel that she might be able to see them off to college. She doesn't think she'll be alive to see those milestones. The great thing is, that, all being well - you will be there and you'll get so much out of it if you want to. There must be benefits to having children that you love in your life, that your are not actually responsible for. Surely that's why people love being grandparents? As long as you are not suddenly burdened with a whole lot of stuff you don't want to do - and maybe you're just worried you won't be able to say NO - then I think you'll have a great new dimension to your life. Congratulations.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 22:36:36

Thanks again for the kind words.
(I'm pissed, chabbat has been and gone and no sign of menfolk. DH is now also at football do, twat!))

Ledkr Fri 12-Jul-13 22:52:33

Op I feel for you.
Ds and his gf had to finish uni early due to a pregnancy.
They were 18 and 19 and I was so upset.
Be thankfully yours can finish because I couldn't afford to support them neither could her family.
It took me awhile for it to sink in but he's 3 now and we all adore him.
They aren't exactly getting on now which is hard to see.
You just have no choice but to accept it and support them.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Fri 12-Jul-13 22:53:13

He's not really a twat, just wanted to type the word!

I've now gone to bed, planning tomorrow in my head.
Got menu and wine sorted, all thats left is the conversation!

DS texted to say that they're in separate bedrooms as usual.....whats the phrase....closing the stable door once the horse has bolted?

What a bloody palaver.

Ledkr Fri 12-Jul-13 22:53:25

Oh. I was 41 btw.

BellEndTent Fri 12-Jul-13 22:53:33

Am I missing something?

They are 23, not 13. Not yet having finished uni and being established financially is a pain in the arse but aside from that, what's the problem?

Congratulations granny!

SisterMonicaJoan Fri 12-Jul-13 23:42:51

You sound so lovely and your DH (and DIL!) are lucky to have you in their corner.

You have every right to feel sad about the religion aspect but your willingless to put your son's happiness first has humbled me.

Congratulations flowers

SisterMonicaJoan Fri 12-Jul-13 23:43:32

Haha, despite my name I'm pretty non-religious!

DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved Fri 12-Jul-13 23:53:00

You sound like a lovely person reacting with shock and emotion and hope all mixed up together... I hope this thread is a support for you personally in your hour of need flowers

CheerfulYank Sat 13-Jul-13 01:33:04

grin at separate rooms. Ahhh, strict Catholic in laws...I have them myself.

AdoraBell Sat 13-Jul-13 03:11:50

CheerfulYank ILs don't need To be religious To do seperate rooms, OH and had been living together for there months when his mother moved other family members around To put us in seperate rooms. And they don't attend church.

Grandma yes, bolting the stable door after the horse has bolted. Try not To worry about tomorrow, just concentrate on the food and wine and supporting the two love birds as they break their news.

differentnameforthis Sat 13-Jul-13 07:10:12

In this day and age accidents don't happen do they?

Well actually, yeah they do. No contraceptive is 100% effective.

differentnameforthis Sat 13-Jul-13 07:13:09

i find 23 year olds in general lacking the maturity my generation had My niece is 24, she has a 5yr old & 1yr old. One some levels she is more patient parent than I am (almost 40, 2 kids) and certainly taught me a thing or 2! Don't be so judgemental!

Jacaqueen Sat 13-Jul-13 09:54:16

Hope today goes well for you all Grandma.

You are in my thoughts.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Sat 13-Jul-13 10:24:52

Jacaqueen Thankyou so much for your kind thoughts.

All food is prepared, table is laid and booze out.

Have this morning 2 DSs nursing raging hangovers, what a delight.

DS 4 has been sulking because he wants to go to football barbeque and his brothers haven't even surfaced yet.

Shall now go and prise them out of bed and wave them off for the afternoon.

I'm shaking like a leaf.

So stupid but i want to make a good impression (met them a few times already so it's probably too late!)

DH working all morning and has promised to be home before they arrive.
He always does this, guests arrive and i'm alone like Billy no mates!

Going to have a crafty fag to calm my nerves.

Fingers crossed that all goes well. wine

shadylady89 Sat 13-Jul-13 14:12:58

BellEndTent Fri 12-Jul-13 22:53:33
^Am I missing something?
They are 23, not 13. Not yet having finished uni and being established financially is a pain in the arse but aside from that, what's the problem?
Congratulations granny!^

I'll second that. Congratulations, Grandma! You have misgivings now but they will surely vanish when the baby arrives. Of course you are concerned about your children's future, what mother wouldn't be? But overall you are being positive with the help of the majority of the posts above, and that has to be good.

Many in every generation think the next is lazy and immature. One of the earliest writings we have is an Ancient Babylonian man complaining about his son and his generation's laziness. But things have gone on.

Hope the best for your and your in-laws. I wonder if we gave ours similar scares, in-laws were nice though I know my mother didn't approve of me having any kids at all (At 23, we had our third child, two while I was in Uni, and now have 4, so we're pretty much trashed her goals for me). We've still done pretty much everything we've wanted, our careers may be on a slower path comparably but we've still done so much as will yours. Children can very much be part of enjoying life.

DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved Sat 13-Jul-13 15:18:43

Oh good luck... You know what, from what you've written here, I'd be really happy to welcome you into part of our extended family. Ok my child is 3 so a bit of a way to go, but you sound caring, involved, and your ds s girlfriend sounds like she bonds with you... Everything id want for my child.

Hope everything is going well today for you

CheerfulYank Sat 13-Jul-13 15:33:53

Good luck! smile

Futterby Sat 13-Jul-13 15:42:14

Thank you grandma, that's kind of you to say smile you sound like you'll be a fantastic gran, your son and DIL are very lucky to have you smile best of luck for today, hope it's going well!

Allice Sat 13-Jul-13 16:49:09

You and your husband sound great, really hope today goes well.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Sat 13-Jul-13 18:03:10

Well, that's it.

All went relatively well (no blood spilt).

My DS came in, gave me a hug and said "sorry", that set me off weeping.
No apologies required, accidents happen and as far as accidents go this is a happy one. (my new hourly mantra!)

DIL is an angel, she looks very fragile at the moment. She's scared and ashamed.

DH and I were very good, stepped back even during the digs DS kept recieving from his FIL. (not an easy thing to do)

Parents in law are considerably older than us and have a very old fashioned take on the situation.
I can almost understand them if i put myself in their shoes.

They feel ashamed of the situation. They live in a world where illegitimate pregnancy is a mortal sin.
We don't share these views, infact this aspect had not crossed our minds.

Much was discussed.....marriage, finances, continued study..........

I did contribute to the conversation as did DH, but we encouraged an atmosphere of celebration and eager anticipation. (we probably looked like a pair of loons!)

Anyway the PIL have now gone home (phew) and DS and DIL have told my Father and MIL the good news.
Both were delighted (the older generation never ceases to amaze me!).

Our 3 other DSs have been told and are pretty non plussed but are at least feigning interest!

We've got the green light to tell the world, so ladies.........


GrandmaWeLoveYou Sat 13-Jul-13 18:14:28

(I'll be married to a Grandfather confused )

yay, I'm glad it went so well for you (though not so well for your DIL by the sounds of it).

onedev Sat 13-Jul-13 18:36:04

Just seen this thread - so pleased it went well - CONGRATULATIONS!!

(Although it does sound like you're married to an old man when you call him Grandad!! grin)

GrandmaWeLoveYou Sat 13-Jul-13 18:36:51

Poor, poor DIL is over 3 months pregnant, it's a raging 30 degrees here.

Her parents (Father) are making her feel like some scarlet woman and my DS feel like some sex pest.

They're staying here for the next 2 days, her parents are away on holiday from Monday.

It's a fait accomplis, the parents will come to terms with things, they have no choice.

They should have told us a long time ago. The pair of them have been brooding over this for over 2 months (that can't be good).

DIL needs comforting and DH and I can do that while they're here.
Her mother also needs to come round to the idea (and defy her bullish husband) and look after her daughter.
(The mother is very subserviant and wouldn't say boo to a goose.)

Must say that DS has definately "grown a pair" (!!) and is doing a great job.
Feel a bit guilty of all the "he's immature" guff i spouted over the past 2 days. blush

GrandmaWeLoveYou Sat 13-Jul-13 18:39:11

onedev He is an old man, he'll be 53 soon !!!(whereas i am a nubile 40 something!) grin

onedev Sat 13-Jul-13 18:39:29

No need to feel guilty - you were worried, that's all. FWIW, it's 30 degrees where we are in the UK today too but likely you guys will have air conditioning! grin

GrandmaWeLoveYou Sat 13-Jul-13 18:49:43

onedev No air con here sad, didn't you know it gives you TB?! (MIL's words of wisdom!)

onedev Sat 13-Jul-13 18:55:24

Haha! Sounds like its time for wine (or gin!!). Congrats again thanks

themaltesecat Sat 13-Jul-13 19:05:09


My mother did all this "Oh, but you haven't finished X and you haven't done Y" guff when I got pregnant at 25. This was despite my having already received my first degree, worked overseas for four years and travelled the world.

I was terribly pissed off that she managed to make it a bit of a drama about herself and her wants and wishes at a time when my husband and I were simply delighted.

It's not about you.

themaltesecat Sat 13-Jul-13 19:07:28

Whoops, just saw update, sorry OP.

Sounds as though you are reacting nicely.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Sat 13-Jul-13 19:16:28

onedev Definately time for gin!
lechayim/cheers !

Dozer Sat 13-Jul-13 19:19:44

Aah, thanks for updates, congrats! Sounds like DIL's parents could do with a few gins on their holiday!

GrandmaWeLoveYou Sat 13-Jul-13 19:35:48

Dozer They need more than gin !!

All boys and DIL off (once again) to football club for barbeque!
I'm sure that place is an illegal lap dancing emporium! They seem to spend their lives there! (and DH for that matter confused )

Shall just be me and DH at home this evening.......bliss.

I shall drink more gin and lie on the sofa and contemplate my navel!

MIL sent text earlier saying shall she and my Father come for dinner tomorrow?
Mein gott im himmel, if i ever needed an example of how to be a pushy MIL, i've got one there!

She and my Father are thick as thieves, they're incredible! (but that's a whole other thread)

Needless to say, i said yes. Such a pushover.

(I'm pissed)

Vivacia Sat 13-Jul-13 19:42:42

I can't help but imagine in another universe there is a 23 year old woman posting about how her partner's mother views him as a beautiful boy who has had his young life cut short due to her (not them) expecting a baby. She wishes they just had one parent who could be unconditionally accepting and loving about being a grandparent. I mean, they're not exactly teenagers any more. And she loves her partner, although he's been a bit of a mummy's boy.
Also, they're worried about when they break the news about him dropping his studies and being the stay-at-home-parent.

MrsOakenshield Sat 13-Jul-13 19:46:03

oh, for goodness' sake, Vivacia, give it a rest. Have you actually read the entire thread?

GrandmaWeLoveYou Sat 13-Jul-13 19:47:54

MrsOakenshield Thankyou xxx

Vivacia Sat 13-Jul-13 19:49:31

Yes, I've read every post just now.

MrsOakenshield Sat 13-Jul-13 19:54:17

and what? The OP isn't allowed to express her perfectly legitimate concerns on an anonymous forum regarding both her Ds's and DiL's futures?

I've noticed a weird thing sometimes on MN that some people think that every single pregnancy should be greeted by all and sundry with immediate cries of joy, and that any expression of concern that perhaps it isn't (certainly when you first hear about it) the greatest thing, is some kind of sign of hatefulness. What is it with that?

cory Sat 13-Jul-13 19:58:02

Vivacia, you are reading something different from the rest of us. I am reading about a grandmother-to-be who is has made a conscious effort to support her son and Dil against their traditional and negative parents. The fact that she is in a culture and in a situation which means that this needs to be a conscious effort is neither here nor there: the point is that she is making it. Good for her!

Alibabaandthe40nappies Sat 13-Jul-13 19:58:28

MrsOakenshield - exactly. All those threads where someone has fallen accidentally pregnant with a new (perhaps uncommitted) partner. And all most people say is 'oh you will manage, how lovely' despite a lack of money, support and everything else. Bloody ridiculous.

That is not how the real world operates.

Also apparently one is supposed to disengage completely from ones offspring once they are about 17 and let them do exactly as they please without offering any advice or support, or even giving a shit about what happens to them. hmm

Vivacia Sat 13-Jul-13 19:58:54

Well, I'm not sure I can answer your questions as I don't recognise the truth of what you're saying. Not saying you're lying, just that I've not seen it myself.

However, I'm not sure what there is in this pregnancy that means it shouldn't be greeted with joy.

cory Sat 13-Jul-13 20:02:24

Oh and just one small point- having a baby won't stop them from travelling: babies are very portable! My db took his toddler and later young son inter-railing all over Europe. My parents travelled with their 2yo from Sweden to Greece on the train. Heiko Bleher, the famous explorer and fish collector, was taken all over Amazonas by his mother as a small child.

Vivacia Sat 13-Jul-13 20:02:36

Cory, I think there's been a mixed response to the OP, so some people are reading this the same way as me.

Alibaba, this is an adult couple. I agree that it falling during the woman's studies might be disruptive, but it's been managed before (that's how the real world operates in my experience). The worse case here is that the beautiful boy will have to work long hours in his well-paid job in a position in his father's business. My real world experience is that not everybody is as fortunate.

I don't want to derail grandma's thread and wish the family all the very best.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Sat 13-Jul-13 20:08:52

Vivacia Thanks for your kind words, what a shame you didn't comment yesterday when i was at my most fragile.

Please read again everyone of my posts. If they still offend then so be it but rest assured as of today our family is getting on with things together as per my DS and DIL's wishes.

I've said it before but it's worth repeating.....we're doing our best.

Babouche Sat 13-Jul-13 20:10:40

vivacia if I had been the pregnant medical student I can guarantee that my mother would not have been shedding tears of joy!She would have thought that I'd ruined my life,career,her investment in my education etc.And she would have partly been right,it would have made things a lot more difficult.
I think it's fair enough for parents to have expectations for their children and natural to feel disappointment if they are not met.
In this case the OP has accepted the situation and is going to be supportive which is brilliant.
I for one might not have been so lucky!

Alibabaandthe40nappies Sat 13-Jul-13 20:13:36

Vivacia - as many people have pointed out, yes they are an adult couple, but they are a totally financially dependent couple who are both from communities where this is expected and normal. You cannot view the rest of the world through your lens and pass judgement.

What is clear is that the OP's son and DIL don't really view themselves as an independent adult couple, otherwise they would have a plan and would have told their respective parents much sooner.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Sat 13-Jul-13 20:15:11

Just to add. He is and always will be my beautiful boy. I've been blessed with 4 beautiful boys.

The term "boy" is not derogatory, my MIL refers to her "boys" the eldest of which is 62 !

I am not some stereotypical Jewish mother who keeps her children tied to her apron strings ad infinitum.

I am a standard mother who loves (no, adores) her kids and would do anything to help them.

My DIL is the future mother of my DS's child and i respect that.
She will or should always take precedence over me or DH, that's normal, no?

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Sat 13-Jul-13 20:15:50

Grandma if it helps, I had my DD at 20, and have just graduated with a first class honors degree.

Having a child doesnt stop you from doing what you want to do as long as you don't let it smile

GrandmaWeLoveYou Sat 13-Jul-13 20:47:38

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Good on you, congratulations xx

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Sat 13-Jul-13 20:55:32

Thank you very much! I have also been accepted onto a masters, so anything is possible smile

iclaudius Sat 13-Jul-13 20:57:06

When dp announced to his parents that we were having a child part way into his final year of vet school - his dad swore and his mum cried ... We were 24 and no one celebrated. Our friends were horrified ...

We took no money from anyone and when the HV came to visit us after his birth she spoke for a while then said 'why are you living here' it made us fiercely independent but was quite lonely for a few years as our peers continued to party and travel and we changed bums

Life has been good to us and we have reared many children - looking back there were times of wild jealousy of our friends but I know they sometimes felt the same of us

Still together after all this time in spite of indications at the time - I love being 45 with a 21 year old - we were the youngest at his graduation!

AdoraBell Sat 13-Jul-13 21:35:40

Grandma glad the BBQ went as well as it Did, was never going To be the best of lunches once the DILs parents were told the happy news.

But wow at that pushy text!

chipmonkey Sun 14-Jul-13 00:24:32

It will be fine! My dsis had her dd at 20. Now she is in her early forties and her dd is all grown up and she can do what she likes while I'll still be raising my boys into my 60's and will never have a life of my own! It was tough while she was in college but I envy her now.

Littlet932 Sun 14-Jul-13 09:09:29

I got pregnant at 27 by accident (also using rhythm method) quite stupid for someone with 2 degrees! Any way, in laws were not pleased or terribly supportive and I've often thought to myself that if ds announced the same I would put on the biggest smile I could muster, say " congratulations that's fantastic news, and we'll do everything we can do help" What's done is done. 7 years on, in laws are always saying what a great job we did, adore their grand child and want to spend as much time as poss. Be involved and enjoy!

NomDeClavier Sun 14-Jul-13 09:41:46

I don't think the rhythm method or NFP are stupid if you're prepared to deal with the consequences if/when they arise. DS was the result of a gamble on a day that wasn't completely okay with NFP, but while we weren't trying we weren't in the situation above. Sometimes hormonal or barrier methods aren't an option for whatever reason (my body just doesn't tolerate extra hormones) but then you need to either accept pregnancy is much more likely or not have sex.

Zynda Sun 14-Jul-13 10:02:00

I am embarrassed asking this, but what is the rhythm method? what days do you avoid? or do you use contraception only on certain days and if so which days? is it quite wide, like would you abstain or use contraception days 10-18?

GrandmaWeLoveYou Sun 14-Jul-13 11:29:05

Adora was indeed a pushy text , she's a pushy woman!
She acts like that with me as she's known me all my life.
That's no excuse but she has a different relationship with me than with my SILs who joined the family as adults IYSWIM. (Plus i am an absolute pushover!)

Spending afternoon with DIL. Just the 2 of us.

DH started calling me Grandma, much to his hilarity.
Wanted me to call him Grandad this morning, i obliged.
He's getting so excited that i'm concerned he may have a seizure of some form!

So, for the moment all goes well.

(As for the rhythm method , we're ignorîng that side of things. It's their affair.)

GrandmaWeLoveYou Sun 14-Jul-13 11:56:50

Littlet so sorry you had little support.
Rest assured that we are doing out upmost to help shoulder the burden (not that the baby will be a burden)

My initial reaction was horrid. Ateast i only voiced my concerns here and not to DS and DIL.

DIL having a lie down, this heat is ghastly.
Poor girl hardly slept.
Cant imagine whats going through her mind.
Her parents are going to take some coming round.

I hope she opens up this afternoon. I can listen to her and give solicited advice.
Just want to hug the girl and promise that all will be ok.

Lweji Sun 14-Jul-13 12:16:15

Well, congratulations and glad that it's all sorted out.

I hope you don't give up your job (he was joking, right?).

Finally, tell your DIL that the rhythm method is crap.
The Catholic church allows better methods, based on self observation and temperature.
She should be properly trained (she can ask at her local gp for a referral).

And the method only works well with stable couples who can avoid intercourse at the wrong times. wink

My guess is that your DS and DIL didn't really care that much about preventing a baby. smile

GrandmaWeLoveYou Sun 14-Jul-13 12:24:55

Lweji much as i don't like to dwell on the sex side of things (he is my DS afterall and therefore in my eyes asexual!! Much like ones parents etc!)
Whats all this abstaining about? Whilst on menstral cycle?

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Sun 14-Jul-13 12:33:12

Grandma - People chart their temperatures and observe changes in their secretions (sorry, waaaaay too much information) until they become very familiar with the indications of their own ovulation and avoid intercourse during those periods. There was a product to help a while back - think it was called Persona or something. Of course, for it to work you actually have to avoid those times! Some people use it to only use condoms at risk y times, or because they don't believe in direct contraception.

ImperialBlether Sun 14-Jul-13 12:33:52

She has to make up her mind though, if she's determined to follow the Catholic path. Either she uses no contraception, uses the rhythm method (my mother had a very, very large family in that way) or she abstains from sex before marriage.

The choice is hers. She's learned the hard way that she can't have it both ways.

I'm really glad it wasn't as bad as you feared with your ILs. I wonder now, though, whether the pressure will be on for them to marry.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Sun 14-Jul-13 12:35:01

Ok, i get it, one abstains during most fertile period.
Does that mean no sex 2 weeks per month?!
Can you do other things or sex of any form just not on?!

(What a tough thing to ask of a couple. Is it the pope who decides or has this been the case since time inmemorial?)
(Sorry to sound so dumb but i have led a very sheltered life!)

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Sun 14-Jul-13 12:38:43

I am not Catholic, but I don't think there are restrictions on what couples do other than intercourse. It's not a 'purity' thing. It's more of a 'blind eye' approach to the contraception ban! Of course, they are meant to be married so it's all a bit academic wink

Charting methods are more reliable than simple calendar methods because they allow for individual variation.

Yes, it will result in no sex for a chunk of time in the middle of the cycle, plus during menstruation if the couple prefer not to.

ImperialBlether Sun 14-Jul-13 12:42:14

It's a way of pretending you are abiding by the no contraception rule whilst merrily avoiding the time of the month when you are fertile.

Of course most women don't know exactly when they are fertile, hence the likelihood of pregnancy. Your DIL, with her access to ovulation predictors etc, still couldn't tell and I'm sorry, but this is a hard lesson for her to learn that it isn't a valid contraceptive method.

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Sun 14-Jul-13 12:46:37

Yes, even used well, these methods are more a way of encouraging family spacing - i.e. ok if a pregnancy isn't a disaster but you'd rather prefer not right now.

I still can't quite get my head around someone who is happy to have sex before marriage but not to use proper contraception though. Millions of practising and married Catholics ignore the no contraception rule. Just look at all the Catholic families in the UK with 2/3 children. It's pretty much a rule everyone pretends exists but doesn't really in many communities.

Maybe your DIL is just so sheltered that she hadn't thought about the failure rate. Even 90% sounds quite good until you realise that means that 1 in 10 who didn't want to get pregnant did!

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 13:47:03

Accidents do happen!!! But it's an absolute blessing!!! Sorry to judge but mums of boys will never be happy!!! It doesn't matter about the fact you say he hasn't 'lived''s his/her decision & I'm sure he will make a wonderful father!!! Enjoy it!!! Being a nanny is great!!! ;-)

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Sun 14-Jul-13 13:52:24

Have you actually read the thread Mumtolilh - or just the first post. It has moved on quite a lot.

I also find your generalisations about mums of boys rather offensive. And that's as someone with no vested interest because I just have girls.

ImperialBlether Sun 14-Jul-13 13:55:59

Mumtolilh, what are you talking about, "mums of boys will never be happy"? That's such rubbish.

And why does it not matter that the OP thinks her son hasn't lived yet? Surely that is something to worry about when they have a baby when they're studying?

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 14:04:50

Just my opinion! I have problems with my mil never being happy because I 'took her son away'
We are wonderful parents & my dh is a great father but my mil is still not happy! Friends of mine have had the same experiences! I'm just saying it doesn't matter that he hasn't 'lived' yet! That baby is an absolute blessing...what's done is done...she should be happy!

Lweji Sun 14-Jul-13 14:07:26

She has to make up her mind though, if she's determined to follow the Catholic path.

Well, quite. smile

I used to tell teenagers at catechesis that they were not supposed to have sex before marriage, but if they did then they should use a condom (venereal diseases).
We used to have those discussions and some people just don't get it. It's still a problem in some countries, where partners are not faithful but refuse to wear condoms. It's not about religion but convenience. Sigh.

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 14:08:44

Ps: Amanda
I don't have time to read 288 posts as I have better things to do with my life! I am entitled to talk about my life experiences! Mums of boys experiences!

Lweji Sun 14-Jul-13 14:15:31

Grandma, there was a decision at Church level that only "natural" methods are allowed. (can't remember at which point)

It is not absolutely consensual at all levels, though, and lots of catholic couples use the pill or condoms.

Some methods have the risk of causing an abortion and others waste the semen (there's something in the bible about that as well, and the withdrawal method is frowned upon too for that reason).

Natural methods can be used if the women has problems with (my SIL) or doesn't want other methods.

I used them before having DS (planned, btw), but not so easy post-birth when breastfeeding and until the first period comes.

I only mentioned this because most people are not aware of how these methods work. And neither was/is your DIL if she was simply using the rhythm method. smile

Indith Sun 14-Jul-13 14:19:28

I'm another who had a child as a student. I was also 23 and it was unplanned. Ds1 ploughed his way through 2 modes of contraception to exist so accidents definitely do happen!

I went to part time and finished my degree. Dh continued at full time, graduated and yes, made some adjustments and compromises as he needed to stay local for me to finish my degree so he applied for all graduate schemes in the general area. Abortion was never an option for us. We knew we wanted children one day so we just went for it and as I got close to graduated we talked and decided to just continue with having a family so I was 5 months with dc2 when I graduated as we didn't want the age gap that my getting settled into a career would have created. We are happy. Ok so we didn't get to do the travel etc that we had planned before settling down and having children but so what? I look at my uni peers and are they happier? I don't think so, they ahve had the holidays, the time on 2 incomes but so what! A lot of the women are now getting angsty wondering when their other halves will finally agree to have children, they are suddenly realising how little time there is left before age creeps up on them. The world will stil be there when my children are grown. We have 3 dc now and I am retraining, when I start work dh will take a step back and work out what he wants to be when he grows up :-).

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 14:24:15

Totally agree! Everything happens for a reason...& u make the best of wha u only live once! ;)

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 14:24:36


AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Sun 14-Jul-13 14:24:39

Mumto - she is happy. You didn't bother to read all her posts. fine, don't read the whole thread, but if does mean you are coming our with comments not relevant to the current situation. Also, you seem not to understand the difference between giving your own experiences and generalising to all mums of boys.

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 14:26:15

This site just gets worse! This is a site to give your own opinion! If she's 100% happy why worry/moan about it! Count it utterly as a blessing!

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Sun 14-Jul-13 14:30:38

She was shocked and has understable worries. Life isn't as simple as you are making out. People can be happy and still have reservations. She can be happy and worry. She can be happy and wish it had happened later. And shock can make them feel very differently whilst something sinks in.

Lweji Sun 14-Jul-13 14:32:28

If you don't want to read the thread mumtolilh, then at least read the OP's posts.

She's happy now.
People do change their minds, even through the course of a thread, you know.

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 14:36:14

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AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Sun 14-Jul-13 14:39:15

No. It isnt just you, but most of those responses were in the early stages.

And the right to have an opinion is not the same as the right to have that opinion go unchallenged.

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 14:46:23

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MissStrawberry Sun 14-Jul-13 14:50:33

I think you were wrong to stay silent while the father made digs at your son. Really horrible for him to listen to them and have no one stick up for him.

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Sun 14-Jul-13 14:52:34

Okaaaay. I think we'll just leave it there then.

Grandma - Hope your afternoon with DIL is going well and that she has opened up. Putting your feet in a bucket of cold water has magical properties for pregnancy overheating I found!

Lweji Sun 14-Jul-13 14:58:22

I got the same feeling, Miss Strawberry, but at the same time, he is a grown man, about to have a baby and all. wink
I'm sure he can take it. smile

Futterby Sun 14-Jul-13 14:59:20

mumto, just stop commenting. Seriously.

SquidgyMummy Sun 14-Jul-13 15:18:54

Hi OP, congrats on your impending grandchild and well done on being a support to your DS and future DIL.

if i have read between the lines correctly, they are both at medical school and your DS will join his father's GP practice. Well if so it is a great set-up for them.

i had a friend who married at 17, went to medical school, had a baby at 21, took a year off and qualified. (she went on to have 3 more kids with her husband). She couldn't have done it without her inlaw's help, looking after the 1st DC etc.

your DS and DIL are very lucky to have young, supportive GPs like you & your DH behind them. have no doubt it will all turn out fine

ImperialBlether Sun 14-Jul-13 15:28:40

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ImperialBlether Sun 14-Jul-13 15:29:37

He's training to be a vet, Squidgy; his girlfriend is training to be a doctor.

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 15:39:57

Just my opinion! Deal with it!

SquidgyMummy Sun 14-Jul-13 15:41:01

thanks ImperialBlether sorry hadn't read whole thread.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Sun 14-Jul-13 15:42:07

Imperial grin

Futterby Sun 14-Jul-13 15:44:44

Totally Imperial grin

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 15:46:33

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Lweji Sun 14-Jul-13 15:48:10

We also have an opinion. Deal with it. smile

specialsubject Sun 14-Jul-13 15:48:49

after wading through all that, glad that the news is out without bloodshed.

I am still staggered that these two are doing lengthy hard science degrees (and she is going to be a DOCTOR) and thought that the rhythm method was reliable. Let's hope they pay more attention to the rest of the course...

anyway, they now both have to step up to the plate and get on with it. Although I stand by my position that they should be independent before getting pregnant again.

good luck to you all.

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 15:50:53

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Lweji Sun 14-Jul-13 15:55:04

posters were trying to point out to you that your post was already outdated, as the OP had accepted this pregnancy, despite her initial misgivings and natural shock.
They were just trying to prevent you looking like a knob in bashing the OP.
She is not your future MIL.

Most posters, when pointed out that there's a development in the thread, just apologise and read the latest updates, and answer accordingly.

Lweji Sun 14-Jul-13 15:56:37

Special, my SIL had two babies through her specialisation (what's it called in the UK?).
It was hard, but she did it with support.
I also know a few people who had babies through their PhDs.

It's hard, but it's possible.

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 15:59:23

As stated already no I didn't read all nearly 300 posts but I gave an opinion based on my experiences! What will be will be that's all I was saying! People need to find better things to do seriously! I Would never look like a 'knob' for giving an opinion! People using mumsnet to bash other people's opinions look like 'knobs'!!!

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 16:00:05

I wasn't bashing anyone I was just saying whats done is done try & enjoy it! How is that bashing???

Lweji Sun 14-Jul-13 16:06:02

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mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 16:08:37

Feel sorry for her that's lovely ;-)

ImperialBlether Sun 14-Jul-13 16:14:30

And btw it's not

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 16:19:19

Little error there i think!

ImperialBlether Sun 14-Jul-13 16:19:48

Believe me, there isn't.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Sun 14-Jul-13 16:19:53

Shall just ignore most of the above smile

miss strawberry we very much wanted to interject yesterday but DS would not have welcomed that
(In my head i was ripping the fathers sanctimônious little head off, DH was aimîng somewhere lower!)

This afternoon has been brilliant.
We went to a friend's pool (friend not there) and talked and talked.

In some areas i have TMI, but i suppose thats to be expected.

She has enormous faith in the catholic church, quite humblîng for me.

I hope i said the right things. She seemed alot happier.

DS turned up and I've left them to it.

Now home and shall be debriefing with DH (not a euphamism!)

Then shall prepare another gourmet

Thanks really so very much for all your support, congrats and shared experiences.
You are a lovely bunch of ladies thanks

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 16:21:40

Are u talking to me? If so do not know wtf u r on about!
Explain then!

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 16:22:26

What's the matter? Realised your silly mistake?

ImperialBlether Sun 14-Jul-13 16:23:54

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mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 16:25:06

NO! It's clear as day u got confused & thought u were on net mums!!!
Read your own post!!! ha ha ha BYE!!!

5madthings Sun 14-Jul-13 16:29:02

When dp told my mil I was preg (aged 19 and at uni) my mil reaction was rather negative, but 15yrs later and we get on fine. She dotes on the madthings and when ds1 was born she was the one person who bought me a lovely gift for his birth, I still have it and tho annoying at times she so lovely and has a heart to gold. I can totally see why she was concerned, esp as dp and I had only been together a few months. She so also very religious and was worried what people would think etc, dp and I still haven't married, I think she has got over our unmarried sins now grin

Its natural as a parent to worry, esp as thyr are both doing I them we courses at uni, but you sound lovely grandma smile congratulations and I hope all goes smoothly for your dil and she has an easy healthy pregnancy/birth etc xx

5madthings Sun 14-Jul-13 16:31:34

imperial was being sad mastic and hi ting that your posting style is perhaps more suited to other forums...

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 16:33:50

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ImperialBlether Sun 14-Jul-13 16:35:44

You might read English but you certainly don't write it.

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 16:37:56

That's lovely Imperial! I don't write English! wow I'm offended!...NOT!

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 16:40:27

I think your friend mad5things is the one who cannot write in English!!! maybe give her some tips ;-)

ImAfool Sun 14-Jul-13 16:41:31

Grandma congratulations, so glad you have come to terms with the happy news. I became a Granny last year in similar circumstances. DD was too scared to tell me she was pregnant so wrote me a letter. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't devastated to begin with. I never had any strong desire to have grandchildren at all. DGD is 8 months old now and an absolute joy. I was at her birth and first to get a cuddle while DD was stitched after a CS.

Imperial I'd give up if I were you, she clearly doesn't get it grin

ImperialBlether Sun 14-Jul-13 16:43:42

No kidding, ImAFool!

5madthings Sun 14-Jul-13 16:43:48 correct gone mad.

I don't need to give imperial Amy tips, I am pretty sure she has been on mnet longer than me and doesn't need any help.

You posted a crap, judgmental comment and were pulled up on it mumto and are now getting all arsey. Don't post crap if you can't cope with being called on it.

5madthings Sun 14-Jul-13 16:44:14

And its 5madthings...

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 16:48:24

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mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 16:51:01

Don't post so many spelling mistakes if you don't want to be pulled up on it!

5madthings Sun 14-Jul-13 16:51:04

Mine are down to autocorrect which is going mad on my nexus. 5madthigns doesn't autocorrect to mad5things however you type it. That's not a typo its not reading.

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 16:52:23

Check your post cannot even spell your own nickname ;-)

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 16:53:10

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crazyhead Sun 14-Jul-13 16:53:15


One of my colleagues has a daughter who recently had her baby during her medical degree is now a junior doc and coping fine. The good thing about both your son and his gf having profession-based degrees is that they will just be able to plough on through the studies with a clear career aim in sight - they'll cope. They will have to work hard but they'll still have a chance to do fun stuff.

Lots of graduates these days, especially in quite heavy duty careers, are putting off kids until mid 30s because it is so hard to find the right moment for career, life etc and it really doesn't get easier. The ideal 'late twenties' time to have kids doesn't feature much.

I am fairly typical of this, and am soon to have my second child when I will have turned 37. Although I am extremely lucky in that I've had no problems conceiving, many people like me (and I bet many of your son's friends will be like this) find themselves in a frightening rollercoaster of ticking clocks, IVF, infertility etc.

What I'm trying to say I suppose is that there really isn't an ideal, and your son's position may be brilliant for him!

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 16:53:31

Have a lovely evening xxx

5madthings Sun 14-Jul-13 16:56:52

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mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 17:00:10

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mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 17:01:12

Ps: just so you know I don't treat my mil in any sort of way! I have nothing to do with her! Best to stay away from vile people!

ImperialBlether Sun 14-Jul-13 17:03:54

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5madthings Sun 14-Jul-13 17:07:55

I am sat in the garden watching the little three play with the water table, my eldest has put the oven on and is starting to get dinner ready. With four boys I am making sure they are raised to know how to cook/clean etc so they make good partners and can loom after themselves as adults.

Lol at how you are so concerned by my children when it sounds like you don't even let your child have a relationship with their grandmother.

Don't know about anyone else but I can multi task, and children are quite capable as they get older, so I can spend time on here and get stuff done in RL, like most posters I imagine.

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 17:08:03

I've said bye several times! But people keep responding because they are so bothered by my comments!

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 17:09:44

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5madthings Sun 14-Jul-13 17:10:03

Lol imperial is it not fun to play sometimes.

You don't have to respond mumto no one is forcing you to.

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 17:10:28

I'm not concerned about anyone's kids but my own!

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 17:11:17

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mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 17:11:45

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TheRealFellatio Sun 14-Jul-13 17:14:28

<snorts at IB>

God, my eyes are hurting from all these exclamation marks!!!

5madthings Sun 14-Jul-13 17:15:18

Somehow I imagine your ds will pick up on your venom towards your mil, as I said think what example you are setting.

Well my 13 and 11 yr old don't need much playing with and the little ones are happily playing together about two meters from me, we are chatting etc, as I said I can multi task,

You have spouted crap about Mil's having not read the thread and been pulled up on it, its rather petty now.

skylerwhite Sun 14-Jul-13 17:15:28

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missbopeep Sun 14-Jul-13 17:19:54

Maybe it's time for these two ladies to start a thread of their own 'cos they are way off beam with the topic started by the OP.

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 17:21:25

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mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 17:23:09

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5madthings Sun 14-Jul-13 17:24:01

Lol its alright missbopeep have already said to op that dp and I had ds1 in very similar circumstances whilst at uni, all worked out fine. She sounds lovely and only concerned for her ds and dil, also as though she will be lovely and supportive.

As I said fingers crossed all goes well for your dil grandma and congrats smile

GampyWabbit Sun 14-Jul-13 17:28:55


This is exactly what happened to my dh & I. I fell pregnant in the middle of our last yr at uni, aged 22.

We finished uni in June 2003, dh (dp then) managed to get a good graduate position and then Dd1 was born in the autumn.

It was hard, but we have loved having her (and her siblings that followed) and I wouldn't have changed anything.

The parents (grandparents) were all shocked and upset at the time, but over the moon once dd arrived and that was that!!!

It is exactly 10 years on. We are married and financially secure with a mortgage and three happy and very talented children.

It will be fine.

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 17:34:56

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5madthings Sun 14-Jul-13 17:37:35

Anger issues ha ha grin

ImperialBlether Sun 14-Jul-13 17:39:25

Ignore her, 5madthings.

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 17:39:38

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ImAfool Sun 14-Jul-13 17:39:46

The bun fight has gone into most active. grin

I'm sure 5madthings can MN without her dc picking up venomous vibes.

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 17:40:31

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mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 17:41:25

Meaning I would love her to calm down & ignore!

ImperialBlether Sun 14-Jul-13 17:43:09

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Lweji Sun 14-Jul-13 17:44:10

has to stop reading and get on with work

ImAfool Sun 14-Jul-13 17:44:25

Snort !!

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 17:44:36

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ImAfool Sun 14-Jul-13 17:47:41

ImperialBlether grin

Please stop it ladies, my dc are getting seriously neglected here. Its a school night they are loving that I seem to have forgotten about them while I snort at the shenanigans on here.

ImperialBlether Sun 14-Jul-13 17:48:14

Something you should learn if you're stopping here, mumtolilh. We're all behind screens. You have absolutely no idea what's going on in anyone else's house, so you have no right to tell them to go and mind their children.

Just as when you say your child is with his grandmother, none of us say "But she's a stoner, why are you letting him go there?"

LoveBeingUpAt4InTheMorning Sun 14-Jul-13 17:53:35

What a weekend!

Glad the worst is over, I think you have handled this brilliantly grandma!

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 17:53:53

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TheRealFellatio Sun 14-Jul-13 17:54:12

This is cheering me up no end. grin

skylerwhite Sun 14-Jul-13 17:55:28


Chubfuddler Sun 14-Jul-13 17:59:27

Shamelessly place marking to read when Dcs asleep (wouldn't want to be accused of ignoring them)

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Sun 14-Jul-13 18:09:35

Ahem. Can we cool it with the personal attacks, please, folks? <fans self>

ImperialBlether Sun 14-Jul-13 18:11:53

Sorry, Helen!

My first warning!

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Sun 14-Jul-13 18:13:53


Sorry, Helen!

My first warning!

Thanks, Imperial.

Right, peace and love please everyone - to quote OliviaMN. Or our delete button might just explode under the strain.

ImperialBlether Sun 14-Jul-13 18:15:32

Oh Christ, I'm getting the exclamation mark habit. <Slaps self>

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Sun 14-Jul-13 18:16:02

Oh, and congratulations, OP thanks

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 18:29:37

Thank God for that

5madthings Sun 14-Jul-13 18:33:44

Rather a lot of deletions.

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 18:40:18

Yes from everyone! Hope that's your last comment! I will make sure I stay away from any conversations involving you as you have admitted you enjoy winding people up.

5madthings Sun 14-Jul-13 18:50:52

I think most of the deletions were yours. Quite happy to hear you will avoid conversing with me in future smile

mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 18:52:39


Lweji Sun 14-Jul-13 19:25:46

What's the record for most deletions in one thread?

Vivacia Sun 14-Jul-13 19:34:23

I think now is the perfect time for the OP to get rid of the title of this discussion and start a new one along the lines of "I'm so happy about becoming a grandma - tips for a new granny please!".

perfectstorm Sun 14-Jul-13 19:52:48

mumtolilh: given Relationships threads tend to be about sensitive issues, it's seen as really rude (and potentially even cruel) on MN to post on one without reading the whole thing - I've done it before when not noticing a second or further page, and instantly apologised as you can really hurt people by an inappropriate reaction. Basically if you don't have time to read the whole thread, you have nothing useful to contribute, may even contribute something harmful, and shouldn't post at all. As an extreme example, sometimes women post about a row and people initially side with their partner, and as the thread develops you learn the relationship is horribly abusive. Someone posting "fgs give the man a hug and get over yourself!" when we've just learned she isn't allowed a phone, bank account, friends, outings or choice of any aspect of her life is not helpful, to put it mildly. That's why there is such strong resentment of people who post blind and then say airily that they're "too busy". You can really upset someone very vulnerable.

And the reality is that your posting style is in every way one that is more familiar on netmums than mumsnet. That was the joke, and I'm afraid it was apparent to everyone but you. I'm not sure why you're so angry - all online boards have their own traditions and cultures and you've trodden all over Mumsnet's, then been pretty astonishingly rude in posting to people trying to explain that to you. It's rather like being new in a village and trying to tell all the locals they're doing everything wrong and you know better. You just don't. Only using exclamation marks to punctuate sentences also makes you sound like you're shouting, which doesn't help matters.

(*OP*, I think you sound fab, and so do your parents-to-be. I'm also really impressed at your restraint on the money side, because the reality is that this will seriously impact your own finances at least in the short term, and your absolute disregard for that aspect is touching. I wish my MIL were like you. And I hope the DIL's family come round and offer the support she needs, too.)

Jacaqueen Sun 14-Jul-13 19:55:15

Right wtf has been going on here.

I cannot make head nor tail of this.

So ignoring all of the crap. Lets get to the nitty gritty.

When is the baby due?

Has she had a scan?


mumtolilh Sun 14-Jul-13 20:16:57

Perfect storm calm down
As you can see I moved away from this thread ages ago as I'm busy
I just gave my opinion & people got personal that's all so butt out
I can put what I want on this site it was not rude until others insulted me
Now get over it

libertine73 Sun 14-Jul-13 20:28:37

As you can see I moved away from this thread ages ago as I'm busy grin

ChippingInHopHopHop Sun 14-Jul-13 20:32:50

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Sun 14-Jul-13 20:44:30

<wanders back to thread> Oh gawd. I think it was me that set this all off by challenging the 'mums of boys' comment.

Sorry OP blush.

Do you want your thread back now? I think maybe we should all just ignore and move back to the OPs situation.

perfectstorm Sun 14-Jul-13 20:45:20

I'm perfectly calm, actually, as evidenced by the fact that I'm not the one endlessly posting, and in such an impassioned and rude manner that most such comments were deleted. If you want to post condescendingly to someone, then it might be an idea to avoid such obvious own goals in future? Otherwise, your posts will just continue to look foolish.

I was just politely explaining why you were met with the responses you were, and the reasons underlying that reaction, so you could avoid such mistakes on your part in future. You clearly mind the reaction you encountered very much, because the amount of time and energy you've put into repeated angry posting and numerous personal attacks would have allowed you to read the original one (and post more appropriately) several times over. It's a simple thing to fix, if you can just accept you screwed up, as we all do at times, and let it go yourself.

If you choose to see anyone correcting your mistaken posting as indicative of anger or stress on their part, then life online must seem both painful and confusing. But the road to changing that lies in your hands, and attacking all and sundry will only make your difficulties worse. When met with universal annoyance, shooting the messenger is fairly self-defeating.

OliviaMMumsnet (MNHQ) Sun 14-Jul-13 21:14:56


AdoraBell Sun 14-Jul-13 21:39:01

Grandma I hope tonight's dinner goes well.

OctopusPete8 Sun 14-Jul-13 21:47:48

23 isn't a bad age to have a baby, and if you were the same age yourself its slightly hypocritical to upset.

Of course accidents happen nothing is 100 especially hormonal contraception,

And would you have hassled them into an abortion? shock
I'm finding it hard to sympathize you come across in an unpleasant light and making sweeping generalizations about young people, I was 19 when I had my 'accident' I was more mature than a lot of mothers in their thirties to be honest.

mathanxiety Sun 14-Jul-13 21:53:29

I see there is a bit of a bunfight, which is regrettable.

As the mother of four DDs and a DS with a bright future ahead of them that depends on going to university and doing well there, I can see where your opposite numbers are coming from if they are angry. On the subject of Catholics in general, most are not so conservative and I don't think this is where their anxiety is coming from. Any parents of a daughter with 6 more years of university to go before qualification would very realistically see a daughter's future and hear a loud sucking sound as it all went down the drain when they heard the announcement of a pregnancy. The fears of the other half here are probably based on real perceptions of how the burden of carrying a baby and caring for one usually fall on the mother. That is true no matter what religion (if any) the mother and her family have. Of course they may have some notions of their daughter now becoming a 'good girl' SAHM and throwing her education away. I hope your DH's positive and forward-looking attitude will help everyone see that there is a future graduation and professional career for this young woman as well as for your DS.

Raising your daughter to be compliant and a 'good girl' (which can happen in any family where mum kowtows to dad) often means raising your daughter to make huge mistakes and try to please everyone when it comes to contraception and taking charge of your fertility when in a relationship. That is a personal observation of some 'good girls' who have been put in an impossible situation, never taught to put themselves and their own best interests first, in other words, not prepared for real life and real responsibility. Charting, etc., is much more useful as a way of planning to have a baby than to avoid having one. It is not what responsible unmarried women who cannot support themselves financially should rely on in order to avoid pregnancy.

On the subject of marriage, I see no reason why they could not get married if they wished in a RC church, unless there are rules where you are that are a far cry from those in operation where I am. That is if they wish to. There is no guarantee that they will stay together or want to take their relationship to that level.

A family I am friends with have two DDs, one of whom had a baby at age 17. The young mother went to university while her parents took in the baby pretty much full time. The condition was that the mother would fund her own studies because her parents could afford to either take care of the baby or pay for university but not both. Two degrees later, the 'baby' is 11 and living full time with her mother who is a professional working full time, married to a new man and the mother of a 2 year old DS who was born during her final year of professional studies.

When this baby was born the husband's mother travelled and stayed three days and nights to take care of her grandchild, and the grandmother who is my friend did the other four days/nights of babycare. The mother arranged her classes so that she travelled three hours to her university on a Sunday night, stayed in a rented room, went to class for three days solid, travelled back home late on Wednesday, and did her studying and assignments for the other four days. Without her husband's salary as an anesthetist the expense of all this alone would have made it impossible. Without the willingness of both grandmothers to do their shifts the expense would have put it out of reach as they would have to have hired a live-in nanny. The father worked hospital shifts and babycare by him was out of the question.

The mother's older sister had her first baby (with her husband whom she married at 6 months pregnancy) during her second last year of medical school, and her second baby while a hospital resident. The grandmother moved to this daughter's city to take care of the first baby for his first four months when he was a newborn and when the couple and their baby moved closer to grandparents she took care of the first grandchild as well as the second and then the third. I took care of the oldest grandchild during the day while the grandfather worked, and he would pick her up and give her dinner, bathe her and get her off to bed. After breakfast he dropped her off at my house.

There may be similar heavy lifting in your future. Of course, it may well be that the grandads and fathers involved here may take up the burden, but is this how they see things? If you think you will end up bearing more of a burden than the men involved then maybe you can think a little of the parents of the DIL and understand their concerns.

Finally, congratulations. My friends love their grandchildren to bits and they are wonderful children, cherished by the extended family to the point of idolatry, and their daughters have wonderful careers.

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Sun 14-Jul-13 22:04:09

Octopus - Have you read the thread? The OP said that abortion was never an issue for her (she was more concerned about the DIL's parents) and would not have pushed it. They didn't use hormonal contraception, they used the rhythm method. And OP has got over the upset and is happy, but concerned about the practicalities.

OctopusPete8 Mon 15-Jul-13 10:03:03

I agree that isn't really an accident just stupidity , and I apologize for getting the abortion thing twisted.
As a young mother myself the generalizations about young parents are very offensive.

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Mon 15-Jul-13 10:15:01

I can understand that. In defence of the OP, I think as the thread has gone on she's kind of admitted that what she meant was that, by the same age, she had far more responsibilities and was ready for parenthood whereas her own son (and I think it was maybe shock making her generalise to young people generally, which of course isn't fair) has been very sheltered, in the sense that all he has had to worry about is studying.

I agree that age is irrelevant to what kind of parent you make.

MrsOakenshield Mon 15-Jul-13 10:23:10

I don't think age is irrelevant to the kind of parent you make, but it's irrelevant to whether or not you'll make a good parent. That's really pedantic, isn't it? I just thought - I'm an older parent and I do think I might have been a rather more carefree (and certainly more flexible and less tired!) parent if I'd been younger!

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Mon 15-Jul-13 10:29:18

Oh yes, I agree that there are probably some general trends. Like I'm guessing that those who have children younger tend to (on average) have more energy, and later tend (on average) to have more financial resources to parent with. By 'kind of parent' I did really mean how good a parent you will make smile

chipmonkey Mon 15-Jul-13 11:28:09

FWIW, Grandma, you said they wouldn't be able to marry in church.
My cousin is catholic, her dh is Jewish and they married in a Catholic church. He definitely didn't convert, either.

For Catholics, abortion would be a worse "sin" than contraception so it would be highly unlikely that the parents would have pushed that. But they might possibly push for a wedding before the baby is born?

mathanxiety Mon 15-Jul-13 13:46:51

Agree with Chipmonkey's comment wrt church wedding and also what the ILs may want.

However, no priest will marry a couple when a baby is due, especially a young couple and in particular under pressure from the bride's or groom's parents. It would be grounds for annulment afterwards (duress). The Catholic church doesn't care any more about what side of the blanket a baby is born as long as the baby gets to be born.

I think having that first baby is a huge shock to your system no matter what age you are. (DD1 born when I was 25)

chipmonkey Mon 15-Jul-13 13:58:52

Math, my SIL got married at 5 months pregnant in a catholic church. I'm not sure if they discussed the pregnancy with the priest beforehand, mind you! But she had a little bump up at the altar.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Mon 15-Jul-13 14:01:18

chip - I think the Catholic church over here is a very different thing to the Catholic church in France.

Hello Grandma

You sound awesome; how lucky is your DS/DIL/DGC to be. Nothing of erudite enlightenment to add but to say did a uni course with year in different country. Lecture on each year a student comes back pregnant, changes course of life. My year: high flying fabulous girl does same age 21. Has baby. Now DH moves here from US. Hard start financially etc. Fast forward 22 years. She and same DH now have 2 additional sons. She is head mistress. They are happily married. Perhaps she may have had in inverted commas more high flying career. But they are awesome family. I have 5 year old. I am too happy although inadvertent single parent having married at 36 vs 21. Never would have predicted on paper they would be together and sensible me be single parent but que sera. All of your feelings I validate but life being as it is, who knows what will happen and they are certainly lucky they have you in their corner. Good luck and god speed <said the atheist> xx

2468Motorway Mon 15-Jul-13 14:26:55

Congrats, just thought I'd pop in (if you're still reading!) . To say that my dad married out and I feel very culturally connected to that side of my family. It is unlikely they will be very devout of either religion (based on the number of halfies I know in real life). It doesn't sound to me like that will be too big a hurdle for you though.

I'm jealous of you being a young granny (I'm an oldish mum) . Think of all those brilliant years of fun you have ahead while you are in good health. Mazel tov smile

GrandmaWeLoveYou Mon 15-Jul-13 19:57:44

And i'm back in the room!

It's like a bloody warzone upthread! What's been going on?

Thanks again to all the congrats (even one from MNHQ!)

We're all doing fine.

Yesterday's barbeque went well, even though the oldies asked far too many indscrete questions.

DS is showing himself to be a fully fledged and responsible man.

It is evident to all that they are very much in love and have a solid relationship.

Last night we all went to a firework display with a ball going on.
We had a "ball"!
We danced (DH and i do a mean rock n roll! Even if i do say so myself!).
A good time was had by all.

Today had breakfast with the young lovers and then to work.
Told my collegues the good news and everyone (bar 1) were full of conratulations. (i have to admit i shed a tear or two)

Came home and everyone's gone.
I'm now home alone.

DH is determined to interfere and speak to DIL's Father. I'm not so sure.
They may come back from holiday with a new mindset.....we'll see.

As far as scans go.....all done, baby healthy ( Danken got!)

Due January.

Names ?????????

GrandmaWeLoveYou Mon 15-Jul-13 20:02:40

Marriage has been discussed with her Parents.
DS and DIL shall decide.

I'd love a Jewish wedding (sorry, but i would)
I think that's totally out of the question.

A church wedding would appear to be a no go, there're strict rules over here (apparantly) and DS would need to be baptised at least.
(would say nothing but would break my heart a little)

Looks like a civil marriage is on the cards.

AdoraBell Mon 15-Jul-13 20:03:31

Grandma, I'm so very glad the scan went well, and that you had a good time partínggrin

Can you use the time that DIL's parents are away to work on DH, Get him to see How they are when they Get back having had time to Get their heads around the situación? Please excuse random capitals, iPad is having a strop!

GrandmaWeLoveYou Mon 15-Jul-13 20:04:05

But, a marriage is a marriage....good excuse for a party!

AdoraBell Mon 15-Jul-13 20:05:53

Is it posible, I really have no clue, to have a Jewish wedding without DIL converting? I do appreciate that her parents might not like the idea.

woopsidaisy Mon 15-Jul-13 20:09:00

Little story.
Few years ago I worked in Breast Unit (nurse), mostly surgery for cancer.
A girl in her early thirties was in having a mastectomy. She was going to need radiotherapy too. I was taking her drain out and her mum was there too. We were just chatting, and I'd mentioned that it was good she would have her daughter home to help a bit. The patient lady was 32, she had her daughter at 16.
The patients mummy said, "Do you know, nurse, when patient got pregnant at 16, we thought it was the worst thing that could happen. We were devastated. But grand daughter has given so much joy to us all. Patient lady has never married or had more children. And now after radiotherapy probably won't.
Thank god that grand daughter came along when she did!"

We all agreed that what was for you, wouldn't pass you.

Plus-23 isn't that young to have kids, IMO!! Good lick OP.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Mon 15-Jul-13 20:09:14

AdoraBell DH is a loving and caring man. Our DIL is part of our family (way before all this).
DH can't bear to see the terrible burden she's carrying with her.

Our parenting is leagues away from her parent's and DH feels a need to get them onside.

I don't know the right from wrong in this situation.

DS and DIL must decide if his intervention could be constructive.

(DIL is very, very fragile at the moment. Her parents (father) have in my opinion been odious)

skylerwhite Mon 15-Jul-13 20:09:44

There would have to be a civil marriage first anyway, wouldn't there?

The same rules apply in the whole Catholic church - a Catholic CAN marry a non-Christian, and your DS would NOT have to be baptised. They would need to seek a dispensation from the local bishop. I think it's called a 'dispensation de disparite de culte'.

Obviously, your DS and DIL might decide that a civil marriage is the most appropriate option for them, but just to let you know that it is possible.

Lweji Mon 15-Jul-13 20:14:30

A church wedding would appear to be a no go, there're strict rules over here (apparantly) and DS would need to be baptised at least.

If they are catholic, your DS and DIL can push for an inter-faith wedding, regardless of what the local clergy wants.
Shop around. grin

Only they have to promise to raise their children in the catholic faith.

skylerwhite Mon 15-Jul-13 20:16:19

Lweji that isn't true anymore - the Catholic member of the couple has to promise to do his best to raise the children in the Catholic faith, but it isn't an absolute requirement.

Chubfuddler Mon 15-Jul-13 20:16:52

Do they actually want to get married? I can't help thinking "whoa horsey!" As for baby names - op those will be chosen by the child's parents.

These are adults you are talking about, I find the level of direction and involvement of both sets of parents a bit mystifying.

Lweji Mon 15-Jul-13 20:18:48

However, no priest will marry a couple when a baby is due

They do that all the time. wink

Where abouts are you?

They may be stricter in some countries, but the Pope rules, and it rules that inter-faith marriages are possible, yes.

Lweji Mon 15-Jul-13 20:20:34

Sky is probably right, so even easier.

But, yes. Any marriage is for the new parents to decide on. There should be no pressure.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Mon 15-Jul-13 20:25:18

AdoraBell For DIL to convert it would take (in our branch) around 1 year. (my uncle's wife did this)

For DS to convert i don't know, just that he should be baptised.

This has gone beyond a religious issue for us.
(Don't get me wrong, you've not lived till you've been party to a Jewish wedding! We know how to party!)

I just want the 3 of them to be happy and hang the religious aspect.
We all believe in the same God, don't we? (for those who believe)

GrandmaWeLoveYou Mon 15-Jul-13 20:31:41

They may marry, thay may not.
It's not so uncommon to have a child "out of wedlock" nowadays anyway.

It's their choice as far as we're concerned.

As for the poster who said the parents should choose baby names.....i agree wholeheartedly (so long as my Mother's name is there somewhere grin)

AdoraBell Mon 15-Jul-13 20:49:14

Obviously I don't know about practicas in your country, but my OH was previously married to a Catholic and even though he was in the process of converting he never actually did. They had a Cathoilc wedding but with a C of E vicar in attendance because of Britain being C of E. He was already christened in the C of E though, don't know if that made any difference.

I'm sure it is difficult to watch DIL being treated so badly, without making this about me - I can hardly bear to speak to my PILs because of they way the have treated OH. Does DS stand up to her father?

Lweji Mon 15-Jul-13 20:49:28

For DS to convert i don't know, just that he should be baptised.

To be baptised, normally, he should go through some form of Catholic religion education. It might not be a full year.

But he does not need to convert, if they ever want to have a religious wedding.

PS - but you are totally right about the same god. smile

GrandmaWeLoveYou Mon 15-Jul-13 20:51:19

Chubfuddler The involvement has been sought by our children.

We don't live in some surburbia of some UK city.

We all live in rural communities and mix within our own religious and proximate communities.

I lost my own Mother at the age of 7 and there have been many times in my life that i would have turned to her first. (eg when found myself pregnant at 23 with DS 1)

We are honoured that our Ds and his GF have turned to us at this difficult moment.

I'd like to think that we've been a comfort and have provided the reassurance they need.

I shall repeat...we're not pushy parents at all.

We are doing our best and desparately want to protect our DIL.
DS seems to be doing OK.

This is the biggest thing we've had to deal with in our married life.
(maybe an exageration , but it's up there with the biggies)

GrandmaWeLoveYou Mon 15-Jul-13 21:02:56

AdoraBell DS is very sarcastic/ironic usually (pure DH!)

In the past i've seen him stand up to FIL in a jovial's not the time.

He's showing enormous self restraint at the moment.

Yesterday he vented alot about FIL, he adores his GF and future baby.
DIL is so terribly upset about her parent's reaction that he just can't rock the boat.

It's so stupid, what's done is done.
Let's all look on the bright side and get on with things.

I think DS's FIL will always be a problem.
They could be married 10 years with 3 DCs, DS qualified DIL too, and there would still be a problem.

He's deflowered their daughter ( i had sex with DH at 18, i want to tell him this)

Vivacia Mon 15-Jul-13 21:13:11

This thread is enough to put me off religion for life.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Mon 15-Jul-13 21:17:46

Vivacia Are you at all religious?
If so trust in your faith.
If not, what's changed?

Have a special MN medal from me biscuit

Vivacia Mon 15-Jul-13 21:22:25

Thank you for the biscuit.

I feel so sorry for the parents-to-be tying themselves in knots over what god wants them to do in terms of sex, picking and choosing which aspects they follow. And that's before you even get to all of this about weddings.

To those who have PM-ed me about this thread, thank you. I appreciate it. I haven't replied to you individually because I like to have discussions out in the open (unless it's over something confidential). Come and join in, out in the open!

Futterby Mon 15-Jul-13 21:25:44

Vivacia, live and let live. Have one from me [biscuit ]

GrandmaWeLoveYou Mon 15-Jul-13 21:26:13

I don't care two shiny sh§ts if they marry or not!

DIL's parents really have no choice in the matter and will just have to deal with whatever happens.

As for the parents to be, they're getting all the support necessary from DH and me.

Enjoy the biscuit (it's a Garibaldi!)

Futterby Mon 15-Jul-13 21:26:13

Fuck. biscuit

Vivacia Mon 15-Jul-13 21:28:46

You don't care if they marry, but you apologise for wanting them to have a Jewish wedding.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Mon 15-Jul-13 21:40:27

In my dreams all my DS's have traditional Jewish weddings with the pomp and ceremony and wild celebration that go with it.
All of the above is in my dreams (am i allowed to dream?)

GrandmaWeLoveYou Mon 15-Jul-13 21:41:08

(and as you stated, i apologised !!)

GrandmaWeLoveYou Mon 15-Jul-13 21:42:09

Why not read the whole thread?

Vivacia Mon 15-Jul-13 21:43:47

Of course you're allowed to dream (you gotta have a dream...) and I'm allowed to read in disbelief.

MissStrawberry Mon 15-Jul-13 21:45:02

How did you do that squiggle instead of the i????

Vivacia Mon 15-Jul-13 21:46:17

I have read the whole thread, as I have already explained. I think it's great that you've read people's responses and had a re-think. I think that it's great you're being supportive. But I think you keep saying unhelpful things until somebody gently points out that there's a more helpful attitude to have (such as the comment about choosing the names).

GrandmaWeLoveYou Mon 15-Jul-13 21:47:30

MissStrawberry I'm very clever! wink

GrandmaWeLoveYou Mon 15-Jul-13 21:54:09

Vivacia What the hell have i said about choosing names that could so deeply offend you ?!

I really don't get some people on this thread.

Are there no other more juicy threads that you could get your claws in to?

How i wish this was a true face to face discussion.
I have the balls to be a nasty cow when it comes to defending my children......have you?

GrandmaWeLoveYou Mon 15-Jul-13 21:56:55

Fingers crossed that you carry on this sniping for no reason and that you manage to tarnish what we are celebrating as good news. angry

(OH, and DH thinks you're a @#&*)

GrandmaWeLoveYou Mon 15-Jul-13 21:58:10

(not OH and DH evidently wink)

Lweji Mon 15-Jul-13 22:00:19

Didn't Grandma only mention names in reply to a series of questions from another poster?
In sequence:
due dates

Reading is good. smile

Vivacia Mon 15-Jul-13 22:00:25

I don't want to derail your thread, and I think it's great that you are now celebrating this as the lovely news it is. All the best to the parents-to-be (and all of the grandparents-to-be involved).

GrandmaWeLoveYou Mon 15-Jul-13 22:02:04

Vivacia Thankyou wine

MissStrawberry Mon 15-Jul-13 22:02:45

Grandma never said anything about her choosing names!

outtolunchagain Mon 15-Jul-13 22:02:53

Vivacia I honk the names comment was a jocular response to another poster ,again in joking spirit I think and trying be capture some good vibes.

Grandma so glad to hear everyone holding up well,I think it is hugely complimentary to you that your ds and DIL are turning to you and you are doing fantastically providing support to them

GrandmaWeLoveYou Mon 15-Jul-13 22:15:18

outtolunchagain Thankyou so much.

There have been so many negative posts that one could start doubting ones comportement.

I'm lucky to have a supportive entourage but heaven knows how anyone in the slightest fragile could support such undue (In my humble opinion) critisism.


NomDeClavier Mon 15-Jul-13 22:46:36

I don't think anyone should have to apologise for having dreams for their children, and those dreams are so often based on our own positive experiences or come from a desire to avoid our DCs replicating our experiences.

Equally they shouldn't have to apologise for wanting to share/vent/talk through events they are hav

NomDeClavier Mon 15-Jul-13 22:48:30

Gah they are having trouble digesting. It happens all the time and there are always people who want to wade in and say 'you shouldn't think/feel/say that'. Well thinking is one thing and saying is another and we can't control how we feel so wanting to let things out and talk stuff through us ok!

Jacaqueen Mon 15-Jul-13 22:49:42

It was me who asked about the scan, due date and names. I was trying to move the thread on from the bunfight. Inject a little lightheartedness.

Grandma so pleased to hear that the weekend went well. Time to get the knitting needles out. Only joking.

CatsAndTheirPizza Mon 15-Jul-13 22:56:19

I don't think there have been 'so many negative posts' - I think there have been a few of us who have spotted something different from the majority (and when these things have been pointed out to you, you have toned down your responses to these things).

Your response to our views has been interesting though and I rest my case. Like Vivacia I'm not posting again and wish you all well.

cheeseandpineapple Mon 15-Jul-13 23:09:30

Congratulations OP, exciting times ahead, there'll be challenges too no doubt for your son and his GF which may impact on you but you'll have the joy of another child to fall in love with, without the endless sleepless nights! I can't wait to become a grandparent, my kids are young but I'm not and I would love to be a youngish grandparent, ideally, if my children are in loving, stable relationships. It's one of my few wishes in life for me and my DH. Sorry to hear you lost your mum when you were young, she missed out on seeing her grandchildren but you have that opportunity and it's a gift. Enjoy it!

I thought I may have recognised you from the description of your family, there was a thread a little while ago about someone who found out something which devastated them and I was thinking this has been a roller coaster year for you but I could be mistaken.

All the best, in some ways hoping you may have a granddaughter to spoil after all those boys but either will be amazing!

mathanxiety Tue 16-Jul-13 04:25:08

A priest should not knowingly marry a couple where the woman is pregnant. One of the questions the RC church asks in cases of annulment is whether the woman was pregnant at the time marriage plans were made or at the time of marriage. During annulment they fish very deeply to find out the circumstances in which the decision to marry came about. Both of the parties have to come absolutely freely to marriage. There can be no circumstances making it 'necessary'. (I know this as I went through annulment myself).

It is possible that a priest would marry a couple if he wasn't told of the pregnancy, or if the decision to marry had been made months before the woman became pregnant and preparations were already under way, couple had been interviewed by the priest and all the bureaucracy had been attended to, but the RC church isn't supposed to do marriages where the couple rocks up to the church on a Monday and wants to get it done the following Saturday. They priest has to be certain that the couple are coming freely to marriage and that they understand what is involved. Additionally, there is the posting of banns and investigation of whether each of the parties is in fact single. Plus the interfaith dimension would add an extra wrinkle of bureaucracy. All of this takes time. If the DIL is now at 3 months she would be showing by the time the details have been ironed out.

If the DIL's father thinks he could get everything straightened out with a quickie he is wrong. Unless he has some priest in mind who he could bully into it.

I agree with whoever said this is nobody's business but the couple themselves' though. I hope some priest gives the FIL an almighty comeuppance.

You are doing a great job of being a soft place to land for the poor DIL, and keep it up. I hope she knows there are lots of people here pulling for her flowers

What do her siblings think? Have any of them been told or reached out to her?

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Tue 16-Jul-13 04:52:04

I don't think there have been 'so many negative posts' - I think there have been a few of us who have spotted something different from the majority (and when these things have been pointed out to you, you have toned down your responses to these things).

Your response to our views has been interesting though and I rest my case. Like Vivacia I'm not posting again and wish you all well.

This is why I didn't bother posting originally, this sums up my feeling perfectly.

Good luck to your DIL for a healthy, happy pregnancy and safe delivery.

lucycoco Tue 16-Jul-13 10:43:33

Grandma you sound like a kind and wonderful DM and MIL. It sounds like your son and his girlfriend are extremely lucky to have you and your DH.

With so much pressure on parents to do things 'just right', it's ridiculous that within just a few years of a DS flying the nest (and before he's even started adult life proper) a mother should be expected to be so unphased about this huge transition in her son's life.

As I see it (having read the whole thread) the OP was shocked and concerned for the consequences but within hours began putting all her concerns to one side to be as supportive as she could for the new family unit.

As I see it, a good mother isn't a person immune to feelings and thoughts that aren't 100% consistent with what her son would want to hear; it's a person who deals with those feelings as best she can, and then acts in the best possible way she can for her son and his new family.

RaRaZ Tue 16-Jul-13 10:54:12

I haven't read much of this as I've just stumbled over it, but just wanted to say congratulations and THANK GOODNESS you're there to support them! My parents weren't when I got pg at 24 (also unplanned and unexpected) and ended up pushing us into termination. Turned out to be the worst day of my life. I'm glad you're more understanding and I'm sure your family will work out perfectly smile

MrsOakenshield Tue 16-Jul-13 11:01:28

there do seem to be a number of people (fortunately, a small number) on this thread who are unable to differentiate between what it 'said' on an internet forum, and what is actually said in real life.

OP, have some flowers for you and DH, and some flowers for DS and DiL.

nemno Tue 16-Jul-13 11:02:03

I posted earlier in support and now want to say how brilliantly you are handling it all. Your DS and GF are extremely lucky.

RaRaZ Tue 16-Jul-13 11:05:06

Read a bit more now, and I wish I'd come on here and asked for help when I was pg: you people are all so much more lovely and supportive than my family - shame I didn't or I might've been a mother in a few months!

nemno Tue 16-Jul-13 11:11:33

I'm sorry you feel like this now RaRaZ. Do start your own thread and you'll find lots of support and people who have shared your experience.

Wishing you well x

GrandmaWeLoveYou Tue 16-Jul-13 20:10:26

RaRaZ Thankyou so much for your good wishes.

You've been through a tough time, it breaks my heart to imagine the choices you've had to make.

You need to grieve and then carry on with life.
Abortion is not a light decision, i can understand that.

You've done nothing wrong, circumstances dictated the choice you made.

You have many years ahead of you to make a family and be a mother.

If i could i'd come to you and hug you till it hurt!!

Life goes on, it's a cliché but true.

Live your life to the full, be independant and don't live a life of "what ifs".

Much love, Grandma xxx flowers

GrandmaWeLoveYou Tue 16-Jul-13 20:12:52

MrsOakenshield You gave me much support on a previous thread and also on this one.

What a shame this is cyberworld, i think we'd get on in RL.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Tue 16-Jul-13 20:15:19

cheeseandpineapple (on a cocktail stick?)

I have had a thread recently, probably the one you're thinking of.

Oh the irony!

I spoke about DIL!

Thanks for the congrats wine

GrandmaWeLoveYou Tue 16-Jul-13 20:35:18

mathanxiety Her siblings have been in touch and are offering much support. (totally different generation)

MrsOakenshield Tue 16-Jul-13 20:55:25

what a lovely thing to say, Grandma, I'm very touched. If you have a liking for sexy dwarfs, Viking vampires, tea'n'cake and wine, I'm sure we should get on like a house on fire. Let me know should you land in London soon!

<wracks brains to think of what other thread I was supportive on, memory like a goldfish>

so often my posts seem so inarticulate compared to others, I'm always astonished when one comes out right and is read how it's meant to be, I feel I should frame them.

GrandmaWeLoveYou Tue 16-Jul-13 21:10:21

MrsOakenshield I rememember you, forget the thread it's all done and dusted anyway.

What's with the sexy dwarves?! (not sure i'm into kinky stuff!).

Viking vampires? ............could be persuaded!

Tea and cake and wine, well that's a no brainer, of course!

GrandmaWeLoveYou Tue 16-Jul-13 21:11:50

DH needs to know what a sexy dwarf is!

(he's feeling insecure!)

cheeseandpineapple Tue 16-Jul-13 21:15:15

Ah, thought that was you. You mentioned the prospect of a Catholic DIL, looks like you were spot on with your prediction. Glad you've been able to move on from that other situation. Something else to focus on instead!

GrandmaWeLoveYou Tue 16-Jul-13 21:20:40

cheeseandpineapple Spot on ,was me.

Seems like years ago with all this going on.

I never would have imagined at that time that we would find ourselves in this position.

It's made me put things into perspective.

I'm blessed to have a happy marriage!

MrsOakenshield Tue 16-Jul-13 21:24:56
GrandmaWeLoveYou Tue 16-Jul-13 21:32:26

Oh yes, that's a sexy dwarf!
I'd have him!!

MrsOakenshield Tue 16-Jul-13 22:03:54

well, you can't. Because he's mine.
(It's Thorin Oakenshield, in case you were wondering.)

You can have this one if you like . . .

GrandmaWeLoveYou Tue 16-Jul-13 22:10:03

Ooh, broody and mysterious.........i'll have to think about it ( but it's a definate yes!!)

GrandmaWeLoveYou Tue 16-Jul-13 22:11:32

Just realised....Mr Oakenshield! You lucky lady!

I'll just have to settle for mt 50 something, balding Grandad grin

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