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Did he hit me?

(89 Posts)
wellieboots Tue 09-Jul-13 08:01:56

I am totally confused. Background - I'm living in Sydney with DH who is Aussie and 8 month old DD. We've been here 2.5 years (moved from Scotland where my family are). It hasn't been easy especially since DD came. I ended up with quite bad pnd by the time she was about 4 months, she had bad reflux (which has now settled a bit thank God), barely slept in the daytime and cried a lot between about 2 and 5 months. We had an argument with PILs about 5 months ago about feeding her at night shock and not leaving her to cry (3 months old and ebf, WTF?!) and we haven't spoken to each other since. Well, that's not strictly true, they came to her christening which was about 2 months ago but other than that I haven't seen them.

So life has been full on and stressful. Yesterday I was feeling a bit ill (woozy, dizzy) and DH had said if I needed to call him during the day he could pop home and help as he only works 10 mins away. I rang him at 5.30, so end of the day anyway, and asked him if he could come home a bit earlier than normal as I had been feeling a bit dodgy and had felt a couple of times with DD in the previous 10 mins or so that I could have fallen. So he said he would, although in the end he didn't get home til about 6,10. I hadn't given DD her dinner yet, as she'd had a late nap until about 5.15 and I had bf'd her and she was playing. He got stressed about her dinner (I would normally already have done dinner or be doing it when he gets home) and that we had run out of some stuff and got all stressed about what to give her so he took ages to prepare something. I was sitting resting and he shouted at me to go to bed as that was why he'd come home. Except that DD always has a bf immediately before bed so I was just resting and waiting for him to give her dinner and bath her so I could do the bf and then go to bed. He muttered something about forgetting that she needed to feed (?! this is my DH who is a total bf Nazi and hasn't allowed a drop of formula to pass DD's lips even when I had to do an exam and be away for nearly 5 hours - how the hell would he forget she needs to bf?!) He got her in the bath and I went in there and he complained that I hadn't got her undressed for bath time which would normally do (um, yes, because the reason you came home is because I nearly fell over with her so I am not going to carry her naked into the bathroom which has a tile floor angry.

I then got really angry at him and moaned about the bf comments and about him BU in making me ebf for 8 months when I have begged him to let me stop or mix feed - usually while in the depths of pnd, but still...and about him complaining about having to do the whole bedtime routine and how it was so hard and he forgot things, blah blah. He picked up DD's wet facecloth and threw it at me and it hit my arm. It was heavy and wet and it had time to pick up some speed so it hurt. I shouted at him and he came over to me and slapped me on the thigh and then held me up against the wall. He looked really scary and I didn
t' know what he would do next. I got away and went into the bedroom and packed a bag.

His version is that he didn't hit me because throwing the facecloth and that hitting me is not hitting, because he only slapped me rather than punching, and even then it wasn't on the face or upper body hmm and he says that when he held me up against the wall it was to stop me from falling as he thought I was going to fall after he slapped my thigh confused When I told him I had been terrified of what he was going to do at that point, he seemed genuinely sorry and shocked and he did apologise.

What does the MN world think? I am so confused, sorry it's long!

Gobbolinothewitchscat Tue 09-Jul-13 08:05:16

Um.....I think whatever he did, it wasn't acceptable.

If he can't accept that without arguing over semantics then you have a problem

isitsnowingyet Tue 09-Jul-13 08:06:29

That sounds a terrible and frightening experience. I don't know what to advise as it sounds like you're a long way from home. Is there a friend you could stay with?

HeySoulSister Tue 09-Jul-13 08:08:16

It's DV.... But many other red flags there anyway. What's the situation if you left him? Cos that sounds grim.... All of it

Sheshelob Tue 09-Jul-13 08:11:08

I'm sorry you are going through this but your relationship doesn't sound great. Why is it up to him to dictate how you feed your child? If you don't want to still be breastfeeding, that is your choice. And he did hit you, in a completely pre-meditated way, because he is doing where people won't see the marks. Now he's crossed that line, I don't think things are going to get better.

He sounds like a controlling bully and you sound like you are frightened of him. That is no way to lead your life.

I know what it is like to feel so alone so far from home. It is confusing enough without having someone deliberately messing with your head. Can you come home?

ButchCassidy Tue 09-Jul-13 08:11:51

He hit you hmm
OP hope you are ok.

Tiredtrout Tue 09-Jul-13 08:16:40

He hit you and he is attempting to manipulate you. If you feel up to it call the police and a friend if you have any around nearby

LEMisdisappointed Tue 09-Jul-13 08:20:13

Two things - yes, he hit you! But what i actually think is more worrying here is the level of control - he slapped you on the thigh - no upper body, not to the face - yeah because that is what you would do to a child (if you hit, which of course is wrong anyway) and because it would leave no marks.

Another thing that has jumped out at me is this "
I then got really angry at him and moaned about the bf comments and about him BU in making me ebf for 8 months when I have begged him to let me stop or mix feed - usually while in the depths of pnd"

Im really sorry but i think you need to pack your bags, book a flight and go home to your family. I hate it when people tell people to leave their partners on here because very often, with work i believe people can work things out but the level of control this man has over you is frightening.

You seem to think that you only wanted to stop bfing because you had PND, i bet he told you you were mad too! For what ever reason you felt it would be better to formula feed or mix feed (i mix fed as my milk supply was erratic and stopped at about 5 months) and that was totally your decision - not his. PND is a serious illness (ive had it) and he still forced you into doing something you didn't want to do. Not only that, justify it to your fecking in laws.

Im sorry but if you stay with this man you will have no life and your children will probably be miserable too because he will be the same with them.

Lweji Tue 09-Jul-13 08:20:33

Have you left with your DD?

Good, because he's an abuser.
He was physically violent now and controlling throughout.

You should not have to beg to stop breastfeeding? Not even ask, btw. It's your body.

If you haven't yet, leave him and report this to the police.

WallaceWindsock Tue 09-Jul-13 08:20:48

He hit you. But I'm also v concerned that you say he wouldn't let you stop bfing, that you've begged him to let you stop. It IS NOT his decision. It is your body and your choice. If you want to stop you stop. Your partner should NEVER dictate what you do with your own body.

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Tue 09-Jul-13 08:21:09

If a stranger came up to you and threw a cloth at you and then slapped your thigh and pinned you against a wall, would you consider that they had assaulted you?

Yes. He hit you.

He is a bully.

myroomisatip Tue 09-Jul-13 08:27:03

He is a bully and I wonder if your PND was caused by the pressure you have been put under and the lack of support. sad

I also think you should go home, back to your family.

saycheeeeeese Tue 09-Jul-13 08:34:31

You have to leave. He has been abusing you for gawd knows how long with manipulation and control. And now the physical abuse door is open.
Ring your parents, get money together and take your DD and yourself away from harm.

LongTimeLurking Tue 09-Jul-13 08:37:18

Wow, what a charmer. Sounds like a control freak re: the BF and a bully too. Leave now while you still have the strength.

LongTimeLurking Tue 09-Jul-13 08:38:09

Or rather kick him out and get the locks changed.

CinnabarRed Tue 09-Jul-13 08:43:37

Get legal advice before you think about leaving Australia - I think that you may run into issues if you don't have his permission to take her.

I'm really sorry this is happening to you.

Tiredtrout Tue 09-Jul-13 08:49:15 should be able to help you, or at the very least point you in the right direction when you are ready

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 09-Jul-13 09:02:09

"I have begged him to let me stop or mix feed"

This sounds like a controlling, unequal and therefore bad relationship. That you felt you had to beg him when, in reality, it's entirely your very personal decision how you feed your baby is incredibly revealing and very worrying. That your post is so long, outlining all the details leading up to the moment he hit you makes me think that you're in the habit of rationalising, defending or excusing his behaviour.

He hit you, held you up against a wall, threw something at you ... there's no ambiguity about it. I think you need to tell him to leave and seek help. Your doctor might be a good place to start if you're unwell. If there is an Australian equivalent of Womens Aid, also give them a call.

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 09-Jul-13 09:03:32

'Nazi' btw seems to be his default setting... not just on feeding. may also be a good website for you to look at.

You cannot stay within this and he has likely upped the power and control ante against you thus abuse as well since you've arrived in Australia.

Start talking to the authorities about what has happened here and get this out in the open. Let the authorities deal with him. You did not cause this to arise, the fault here lies completely with him.

And yes he did hit you and repeatedly so. The only acceptable level of violence within a relationship is none.

This is no life for you and your child to be a witness to. He will destroy you totally in the end if you do not leave and such men do not change. His parents sound also vile as well; this rotten apple did not fall far from the tree. Domestic violence damages children too. You have a choice re this man, your child does not.

HotDAMNlifeisgood Tue 09-Jul-13 09:21:17

He is a controlling, violent, bully.

His parents sound mega-controlling too (apple - tree).

He threw something at you, hit you, and pinned you against a wall. All that among a situation of domination and control, controlling down to your very body ('s YOUR choice whether to BF or not, wtf?!).

You are going to have to leave him. This kind of abusive person does not hear reason, and does not get better.

Lweji Tue 09-Jul-13 10:23:05

Or rather kick him out and get the locks changed.

I'd be very careful about this. He's violent.

In fact, I'm worried, because the OP said she packed her bag, but nothing since then.

Jan45 Tue 09-Jul-13 10:39:16

If this is the first time this kind of thing has happened then it needs to be the last. He clearly has a problem with his temper and he cannot take it out on you whether it's a face cloth or a slap, neither are acceptable no matter what you were saying to him.

I'd be very concerned about his lack of control and his lack of respect towards you, I bet he wouldn't treat any other adult that way. I would be telling him he goes and seeks advice or you'll seriously have to reconsider a future together.

wellieboots Tue 09-Jul-13 11:41:29

Nowhere to go - most of my friends here are actually his friends' wives and it's awkward. My closest friend here definitely thinks we should go for counselling but I couldn't go stay with her, she has 3 kids of her own and currently has her FIL staying as her MIL is in hospital with MH issues. So she's got her own problems but is a listening ear if nothing else. Can't leave the country unless I leave DD and that is not happening in a million years.

I genuinely think he doesn't understand the seriousness of the situation. Straight afterwards, he offered to make me dinner as though it was no big deal. I tried to tell him that I felt like leaving and that I had said that if he ever hit me it was over - that's when he entered into his description of what happened and how it wasn't actually hitting. And what makes me really sad is that he did it in front of DD. I can't believe she's seen that, poor munchkin was crying in the bath.

wellieboots Tue 09-Jul-13 11:46:22

He slapped me in the same place once before - it was a couple of years ago though. I was not settling well here and we ended up in a heated argument about how much I had given up to come here. We were very emotional as we had an mc about 5 months previous, and no luck ttc since, and we just found out that my younger DB and DSIL were pg (completely unplanned) with twins - it sounds horrible but I just felt like they had everything I wanted and were in a country where they had family close by and were going to have their own family. I was ranting and raving and he slapped me on the thigh. I said I was leaving then too...

Jan45 Tue 09-Jul-13 11:56:15

Yes but you didn't leave, that's the problem, he thinks it's okay as long as he is sorry afterwards.

If it was me, I would be telling him he goes for help and proves to me that he is or it's over. Sounds to me if he doesn't like what he is hearing his answer is to silence you with violence. Also worrying is he is doing it in front of your DD.

Sheshelob Tue 09-Jul-13 12:06:59

You need to find out what your rights are and start planning to leave. The other posters are right - hitting you, excusing it and doing it all in front of your little girl is a dealbreaker. Even if you can't find the strength to do it for yourself, can't you see that if you stay and it keeps happening, you will be modelling abusive relationships as the norm for your little girl. She will grow up thinking that it is ok for men to hit women and may end up in an abusive relationship herself.

Be strong. Find out what your rights are in regards to your daughter. Call home and get some support. Work out how you can leave and then leave. If he is worth it, he will seek help, change and come back a different guy. But he may not. You and your baby don't need to be in the firing line while he works this shit out.

I'm so sorry.

Patosshades Tue 09-Jul-13 12:12:05

You know why he "slaps" you on the thigh don't you?

badtime Tue 09-Jul-13 12:16:02

He hit you, and had been emotionally abusing you for a long time prior to that. He does not get to define what 'hitting' means. It's in the dictionary, even in Australia.

I see he has hit you before - since nothing happened then, he thinks he can get away with it now. Don't let him.

He has crushed you to such an extent that you don't trust yourself, otherwise you would not have felt the need to check if he had hit you.

What you need to do now is:

- Report what he did. If he doesn't even realise it was serious, why wouldn't he do it again? He needs to be shown how serious it is.
- Get counselling for yourself. Do not go into relationship counselling with this manipulative shitbag.

tribpot Tue 09-Jul-13 12:21:55

about him BU in making me ebf for 8 months when I have begged him to let me stop or mix feed

Er, it's not up to him if you bf. I accept that he has the right to an opinion, but it's like an opinion about childbirth. Unless you're doing it, your opinion is 'for information only'. It seems to me he is using it as a way of physically controlling you.

You're ticking all sorts of boxes for being a victim of abuse. Isolated and without a support network - check. Him minimising the extent of what he's done - check. Victim-blaming (which you're doing too) - check.

Counselling is not recommended in abusive relationships. Given how manipulative and entitled he is in your everyday life I think counselling would be extremely damaging for you, please don't consider that.

Every time you threaten to leave and don't you weaken your position with him. You may have to stay in Oz but you don't have to stay with him. Please do not issue another ultimatum that 'next time' you will leave.

This is a very powerful Ted talk about domestic violence. I would urge you to watch it and not dismiss the fact the level of violence was much more severe than what you've been through. It started where you are.

HighBrows Tue 09-Jul-13 12:57:47

Wellie, keep talking here and do lean on your real life friends for support.

Tribpot that's a brilliant link, very sad but brilliant.

WhiteBirdBlueSky Tue 09-Jul-13 12:57:54

Bring one's hand or a tool or weapon into contact with (someone or something) quickly and forcefully.

An instance of striking or being struck.

WhiteBirdBlueSky Tue 09-Jul-13 13:02:08

I think what we're talking about here is the difference between striking with a closed fist (hitting) and an open hand (slapping).

So he's saying that so long as he doesn't use a closed fist, or strike your upper body, he can pretty much do what he likes.

PoppyField Tue 09-Jul-13 13:27:20

Dear Wellieboots,
I feel for you. This is awful and he is treating you appallingly. This sounds so distressing for you and other posters are right to say that he has been emotionally abusing you already - otherwise you would not be so confused and questioning yourself about what actually happened. He has been messing with your brain long enough and you have been groomed into thinking you don't know what being hit is. You know enough though to know what he is doing is terribly wrong.

And what right does he have to demand that you breastfeed exclusively? He has controlled you enough to think that it is up to him what you do with your body. Sure you are doing great by your DD, but YOU get to decide when to stop or mixfeed or whatever! This is serious and you probably could do with some counselling to sort out what's real, reasonable and unreasonable in your own head, because he has been on a campaign to confuse and intimidate you.

Don't worry, you will get yourself back but no wonder you feel lost. Plus you have left behind your family and friends - people that you would normally go to for support. Keep talking on here - we know you are not mad or stupid or a bad mother. If you're wobbling, loads of people will weigh in with support and help you define what's reasonable or acceptable or, more likely, unreasonable and unacceptable behaviour. Your DH should be mortified he has even come close to scaring you. Hitting you is atrocioius.... he shouldn't be trying to split hairs and researching dictionary definitions to worm his way out of it. No, he should be desperately sorry and looking into himself to work out why he might have been so despicable to you.

If he is not sorry, then it does not bode well for a continued relationship. Have you thought about asking him to leave for a few days to give you some space? Don't let this incident go. Don't let him minimise it into nothing. Hold onto it. It is important. Good luck OP. No one deserves this treatment. Total disrespect - don't let him off the hook.

Lweji Tue 09-Jul-13 13:28:53

As you are in Australia:

"In an emergency police urge all victims of domestic violence to phone 000 or 131 444 for police attendance.

For support phone the Domestic Violence Crisis Service on 1300 782 200 or Crisis Care on 131 611."

support numbers

Welcome to the Australian Domestic & Family Violence Clearinghouse

Salvation Army Salvo Care Line on 1300 36 36 22.

Get yourself on Google

Get a solicitor's appointment and gather as much info and local support as possible.

HotDAMNlifeisgood Tue 09-Jul-13 13:54:39

I genuinely think he doesn't understand the seriousness of the situation. Straight afterwards, he offered to make me dinner as though it was no big deal.

It's not that he doesn't understand the seriousness of the situation, it's that it suits him to minimise it. He doesn't want to know how you feel. He doesn't care how you feel. All that matters to him is that he gets his way, and that things swiftly return back to business as usual.

It's all about him. You are a domestic appliance that has been malfunctioning. He set it straight (in his mind), and now there is no problem and nothing to discuss. You do not have a right to feelings (in his min). You especially do not have the right to make him feel bad about himself - that is utterly forbidden, with abusive people.

I tried to tell him that I felt like leaving and that I had said that if he ever hit me it was over

Your ultimatum is empty, and he knows it. You stayed the last time he hit you. You are still here this time, that he has hit you again.

You need to make good on your threat, love, because he isn't going to change his behaviour. So you either leave, or you stay, and get controlled and abused and hit again.

He hasn't admitted any responsibility or vowed to change, has he? He'll do it again.

HotDAMNlifeisgood Tue 09-Jul-13 14:03:08

The only acceptable level of violence within a relationship is NONE.

What do you get out of this relationship now?. What is really keeping you within this?. The way things are going currently, you could well end up in hospital or even worse the morgue.

What do you want to teach your child about relationships?. She is being shown an abusive role model of a relationship. She is learning about relationships from you two.

Joint counselling as well is NEVER recommended where there is ongoing abuse as there is here.

Seek help using the links that people have provided for you. There is help for you; you need to take the first, often the most hardest of steps, to take it and make a new life for you and your DD without him in it.

His parents sound vile as well. The apple did not fall far from the tree.

Mixxy Tue 09-Jul-13 14:22:34

If he's so set in breast feeding I suggest he goes on a rapid and intense course of female hormones. He is using EB as a means of contolling you. You get to decide what you do with your body, not him.

Are you really going to wait around with this guy until your DD is old enough to disappoint or frustrate this guy?

Lipstickandlashes Tue 09-Jul-13 14:34:39

Your daughter was crying in the bath.



This is no life for either of you x

Crinkle77 Tue 09-Jul-13 14:51:10

So he won't 'let' you give up breastfeeding? This is emotional abuse and is using it to control you. he wanted you to continue despite having PND. This shows an utter disregard for your mental health and well being.

piratecat Tue 09-Jul-13 14:54:22

he hit you.

Lweji Tue 09-Jul-13 14:57:18

These abusive men don't believe our ultimatums, unless we do carry them out and even then they think they can turn us around with their charm our love for them.

Mine was really shocked when I told him to leave, and that I'd call the police if he didn't. He stood in front of me while I did it.
He didn't believe me when I told him that one more abusive behaviour would mean the end of the relationship.
He was quite shocked when 6 policemen showed up at the door telling him that I had left him and wanted to collect my things.
He was still shocked a couple of months later when he returned home (he left in the meantime) and I didn't open the door to him as if it was nothing.

The last time I told (well, texted) him that I'd call the police if he ever came by me unannounced he did believe me. Because I had carried out every single warning I had said previously.
He also knows I'll turn off skype conversations with his son if he doesn't behave properly.

The only way for you is to leave him.

vkinski Tue 09-Jul-13 15:11:07

Wellieboots, this is just not normal behaviour from your partner. Please take action to get out of the situation or at least get some sort of help or support. I realise you are very much isolated in terms of friends and family for support but I assume there will be a range of local support services that could help you.

It doesn't matter where he hit you - he hit you and that is utterly unacceptable, end of story.

My DH is a police officer in a domestic violence unit. Some of the cases he has told me about (which he only usually does if they are laying heavy on his mind) would make your blood run cold. In most cases, they start of with one partner being very controlling over the other, before escalating. The fact your DH is refusing to let you stop BF or even try mix feeding is completely ridiculous and to me demonstrates his domineering and controlling nature.

This is a horrible situation for you to be in but for the sake of your lovely little girl, you need to get help from somewhere.

Ujjayi Tue 09-Jul-13 15:11:50

Wellie, please find a way to leave this man. An ex-boyfriend of mine started this when we moved in together. He would slap me across the face, head, body etc and say "I didn't hit you, I slapped you". Funnily enough neither the US nor UK police accepted his rationale and he was arrested & cautioned (I declined to press charges as I was leaving anyway. I wish I had though in retrospect. Not as revenge but to protect other women being sucked in by this ultra/charming ex-public school boy with a nasty-bastard persona behind closed doors.

MrsWembley Tue 09-Jul-13 15:18:30

Yes, he hit you. Yes to what everyone else had said re. getting your shot together and getting out. Yes to not bothering with joint/solo counselling until this abuse has ended, if ever. Abusers find ways of justifying their behaviour, even in front of professionals, because they 'know better'.

Do you have a joint account? Is there any way of getting some money to help you through a few weeks?

MrsWembley Tue 09-Jul-13 15:20:58

Ffs, getting your 'shit' together! Fucking auto-correct has a problem with bad language

And as for forcing you to continue bfing, that made me feel sick. Please, please get away from this man. He doesn't love you. If he did, he'd listen to what you want.sad

Lweji Tue 09-Jul-13 15:23:58

Also regarding "his" friends:
is there anyone who you think might give you some support at all?

If the wife of a male friend of mine came to me saying she had been beaten up (or any other form of abuse), I'd give her my full support.
And a right telling off to him.

HotDAMNlifeisgood Tue 09-Jul-13 15:48:44
Boomba Tue 09-Jul-13 16:03:48

I think you need to report this to the police. Because I know it is not straightforward if you want to leave the country with your child, without the fathers consent.

If you have a history of reported DV, then it might strengthen your case, when you leave him and want to move back to the UK

Jux Tue 09-Jul-13 18:50:36

Come back to UK. Leave him behind. He'll get worse.

Don't go to counselling with him, maybe get some for yourself to bolster your confidence (so you can say "I don't want to bf any more, so I'm not going to.") and to reset your boundaries so that that you know that a slap is a hit is a thump...... None of it is acceptable.

Vivacia Tue 09-Jul-13 19:05:34

You say he's not taking it seriously. He'd take it seriously if you told the police. He assaulted you.

wellieboots Wed 10-Jul-13 05:55:35

Hard day here. Feel so alone and just want to go home. DH is back to being nice as ninepence but I think it's too late. He's happy to go to counselling as he agrees it can't happen again. He met a friend for dinner last night who told him we should go back to Scotland as we were happier there. He even said that I could use formula, but I told him it was too late, that I needed him to say that when DD was screaming with reflux and not gaining weight and they made me feed her every 2 hours for 6 weeks. She never napped and couldn't be put down and I felt like a constant human dummy. I hated every second and ended up with pnd. I just needed a break! That's when I needed him to say yes to formula, not now!

ps sorry for telling big long stories, its just cathartic to get it all out

Lweji Wed 10-Jul-13 07:57:56

He said you could use formula...

Next time he mentions it, tell him that you don't need his permission for that. Look him straight in the eye.

You are going through the cycle of abuse. He knows you'd leave if he kept being the bad guy, so he is trying to be it, but failing, because he's still being controlling.

Use this time to sort out your options, possibly go back to Scotland, even if on holiday.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 10-Jul-13 08:03:19

Did you ask him to leave? The 'nice as ninepence' routine is pretty common after something like this. They realise they might lose their pet victim and think that, if they pay lipservice to counselling and act like everything's OK, the dust will settle and you'll forget all about it. I think you have to make a stand and get him out... Let him attend counselling if he likes. It's not recommended to go for counselling with an abusive manipulator anyway.

tribpot Wed 10-Jul-13 09:27:52

He even said that I could use formula

This is not his decision. You're buying into the fallacy that he's the boss of you.

Counselling is just another way to get at you. No doubt he will expect you to organise it? And when it does happen again, you will be expected to believe it is at least half your fault, so it doesn't count as him hitting you.

How are you feeling physically today? Yesterday you were woozy/dizzy - are you feeling better in that respect?

Vivacia Wed 10-Jul-13 10:11:09

I agree with others that some time and space to research and reflect is what you need. At the moment I wonder if you're too near to see the wood for the trees?

Seriously, what man gives his wife permission to feed her child formula?

Boomba Wed 10-Jul-13 10:27:00

can you afford plane tickets for you and baby to come back here for a holiday? Have you got family/friends that would look after you in Scotland?

PoppyField Wed 10-Jul-13 11:48:10

Hi OP,
Hope you've had a better day. You have had a major shock and you need to take one step at a time. It's not just the shock of him hitting you, it is the shock of realising bit by bit that you are in an abusive relationship and that your DH is your abuser. Is there any support you can count on - a friend or neighbour who can come over and have a coffee, or to go for a walk and have a chat? Even if you don't know someone very well, when you ask for help most people are usually incredibly kind and understanding. You would be amazed how many women have experience or knowledge of abuse. You sound very isolated. Wish I could come round and make you a cup of tea!

Don't go to counselling with him. I think it would be counter-productive. In fact I can guarantee he will be a total shit and make you 'pay' for it somehow. You would probably benefit from counselling on your own to help you see the wood for the trees. He is still manipulating you and trying to control you and it is horrible to see (from where I'm sitting) how careful and calculating he is. Cogito is right. Let him go and see a counsellor if he likes - he's the one that's got a problem.

However, it's not up to you to make sure he solves his problem - you have got to put you and your baby first. In fact, YOU come first, because you need to be ok to look after your lovely DD. So, concentrate on you. If you need to plan a trip home to get the love and support that you need, then do it. Ring your folks, get the money together somehow, and make that trip. You can do it on your own, you'll get lots of help on the flight if you ask for it.

Failing that, ask him to leave for a few days. He can book counselling for himself and have time to think about what he's done. I doubt he will make much progress as really and truly he has no intention of changing his ways. As far as he is concerned, it is you that has to fall into line - problem solved!

You need to put yourself first. Tell him what you are going to do and practice NOT seeking his permission first. Just tell him what you are going to do and do it. Buy some formula. Buy a plane ticket. Get a therapist. All for you. You can do it. Be a lioness for your daughter.

Lweji Wed 10-Jul-13 12:04:16

He's happy to go to counselling as he agrees it can't happen again.

As others said, the counselling should be for him, not as a couple.

quietlysuggests Wed 10-Jul-13 12:23:43

I would straight away get legal advice on if its possible to leave Australia with your dd. If there is a police report of this DV incident will it strengthen your case for being allowed to take dd home to Scotland?
Be clever.

skyeskyeskye Wed 10-Jul-13 15:19:48

your body, your choice. If you want to stop bf, then stop.

the only way forward is for him to understand that what he did is wrong and that he seeks help for it.

get legal advice on leaving the country, although I understand from another poster's thread downunderdolly that it is not very easy to leave Australia with a child that is born there.

MrsWembley Wed 10-Jul-13 19:18:41

Are you able to get free legal advice down there? Or are you able to get some money together for an hour's consultation?

arsenaltilidie Wed 10-Jul-13 19:22:20

Whether he hit you not is one of your least problems.
Living with him sounds like a nightmare.

GettingStrong Wed 10-Jul-13 20:17:05

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

foolonthehill Wed 10-Jul-13 20:30:32

high emotions are no excuse for physical abuse....or verbal abuse, or controlling behaviour.

1800 RESPECT is a free, confidential service available 24 hours a day, seven days a week, if you are experiencing domestic or family violence or sexual assault. Call 1800 737 732 the AUSTRALIAN number for DV

Threatening to leave won;t make him change...look you're back where you were before. having a child won;pt make him change. Only HE can make changes for himself....and only if he wants to.

HotDAMNlifeisgood Wed 10-Jul-13 20:32:42

(...and he doesn't.)

cees Wed 10-Jul-13 20:36:28

God you sound so under his thumb ''He even said that I could use formula'' they are your tits and only you get to decide if you want to feed a child from them, not him. He may have a preference but under no circumstances can he dictate to you what YOU will do.

foolonthehill Wed 10-Jul-13 20:37:46

and if you decide that out is where you need to be this website will give you details of potential financial help including crisis payments.

foolonthehill Wed 10-Jul-13 20:39:09

Don't be distracted by the BF concession....or indeed any concessions. You need to keep focussed on what he did, how your relationship works (or doesn't) and what information and support you need to keep you and your DD safe.

MrsWembley Thu 11-Jul-13 14:23:03

How are you today, wellie? Hope things are becoming clearer for you.

Jux Thu 11-Jul-13 15:34:09

Are you OK, wellie?

suburbophobe Thu 11-Jul-13 20:43:36

throwing the facecloth and that hitting me is not hitting, because he only slapped me rather than punching, and even then it wasn't on the face or upper body hmm and he says that when he held me up against the wall...

You know in your heart of hearts that this is not on and it's never going to get better, don't you.

If I were you (and I've been there so talking from experience), I would make my conclusions and make a long-term plan to get away (cos right now with the baby and PND you are very vulnerable).

I was "left" (gave him an ultimatum) when my son was 6 months, (it started when I was pregnant already), it was a really dangerous situation. Now he (son)is 21, going on 22, doing really well, at uni, and though it has not been a smooth ride (is life ever?!), it was the best for both of us.

Get in touch with WA - they must have them in Australia - and start getting copies of important paperwork together. Salary slips, passport, birth certificates, any admin. relating to your family basically.
And hide it!

So sorry you are going through this ((hugs))

suburbophobe Thu 11-Jul-13 21:18:51

Failing that, ask him to leave for a few days.

Sorry, but this doesn't work with abusers. The very fact that they believe they're in the right - in their twisted mind - they would never willingly leave the house to "go and think about what they have done".

All you are doing is "upping the ante".

Unless you are sole owner, change the locks and have the police behind you of course. Even then, they might come back and take revenge (in whatever way).

You have to tread very very carefully when living with an abuser. You basically don't know what they are capable of (and the statistics say it all, sadly to say).

MrsWembley Thu 11-Jul-13 23:05:50

Getting a bit concerned that you haven't checked in today, Wellie. Hope it's just down to you getting to grips with your situation?

he did hit yousad
I am so sorry

any chance of coming back to the uk to your mum and dad

it sounds a horrible horrible situation to be in

Jux Fri 12-Jul-13 08:26:44

Can you come here on a visit, at least?

Get all incidents logged, preferably with an official agency - doctor, police and so on - but at least keep a diary.

smallchestofdrawers Fri 12-Jul-13 10:08:31

I think the priority is to get back to the UK with your DD on a basis that will allow her to stay with you here. So although this might seem (is) manipulative I would work on the angle of things will be better between us if we go back to live in Scotland permanently.

Once there you are back in the UK and you know your daughter will remain, you can decide what to do about your relationship.

If you had any other option I would say that you should leave but that doesn't seem very realistic and the fact is you are very isolated and are not enjoying being in Australia. You've tried but it hasn't worked out.

If you force your partner to move out of your home I foresee him digging his heals in and you losing the chance to persuade him to move back to the UK voluntarily and thus being stuck there because you can't leave without your dd.

While your partner is feeling guilty and ashamed might be the time to persuade him to return.

You need some legal advice (unless you know about it already) about how long your dd will need to be in the UK, and on what basis, for her to be deemed permanently resident there (and also about whether your partner will get a visa).

wellieboots Sun 14-Jul-13 03:54:13

Sorry for not checking in. As mrswembley said, there has been lots of thinking talking and organising to do. We are going to come back to UK on holiday in a couple of months, for a month and see how it feels. I went to relationship counseling yesterday, was very lucky to get in so quick. Counsellor has suggested having a series of both individual and couples counselling. At the moment it is individual and she saw DH and me and then we came together at the end to say what our goals were from the process. it went better than I expected but was emotionally exhausting.

We are also going to put DD in childcare for a day a week to give me a bit of a break, in a couple of months time.

It probably sounds silly but I feel so much better knowing that he has gone and talked to someone outside our world and admitted what he did. I never could have seen that happening.

wellieboots Sun 14-Jul-13 04:01:30

Re visas and stuff, DD has British passport so can stay indefinitely but I don't know whether her residence would be determined once she had been there a certain time. DH can't get a spouse visa at the mo as home office have changed rules and I need to have a certain income to sponsor him so SAHMs, freelancers, people on ML etc are having huge issues. it has been taken to the High Court and challenged but no outcome yet. But he can get an ancestry visa so we probably take that route. He was chatting about getting that last night.

Vivacia Sun 14-Jul-13 06:33:58

Good to hear back from you. So the plans is to all return?

Lweji Sun 14-Jul-13 07:34:57

Returning is a good plan, as residence can be establish.

However, thread carefully and don't let yourself be fooled by his good behaviour now.

It will come back, sooner or later.

Make sure you have a way out.

Joint counselling is never recommended though where there is ongoing abuse as there is here, the person who suggested that to you is just plain wrong. Abuse is about power and control; your H still wants absolute over you. I doubt very much he would attend any sessions in any case because he does not at heart think he is doing anything wrong re you in the first place. I would say no to any joint counselling as of now. He is likely to be back in the nice cycle re abuse but the nice/nasty cycle is a continuous one.

Counselling for you alone is essential because it will then help you see the wood for the trees.

Hello Wellie

Someone pointed me in the direction of this thread but only just got the message. It seems like things have moved since the original few days of the post so I don't want to hijack it in a different direction.

What I will say though is that theoretically if you broke up whilst living in Australia with a DC with an Australian DH and if you have permanent residency it is more difficult that you could ever imagine to return to the UK unless DH agreed to it.

In Australia they approach everything from a 50/50 care approach and work back from that depending on age and desire etc. You are also limited on where you might move to within a state (unlike the UK) unless you have permission. I'm not saying this to scare you or to suggest you should or may want to split up but I was shocked that when I did (and the split was a shock to me, I had only been in Australia for 2 years and left behind 17 year career and whole life in family) there was zero chance of moving to the UK. I approached several relocation legal specialists and the shocking fact of it is that even in cases of child abuse (I know this is not your situation but using an example) its tough to move back due to Hague Convention.

If you'd like to PM me please do - otherwise huge luck and love in whatever you decide but, and I repeat, don't break up in Australia if you want to move back to the UK.....


TalkativeJim Mon 15-Jul-13 12:17:17

For God's sake, get back to the UK any way you can. Be loving, smiley, positive about the future... and use ANY reason you can to get back to the UK as a couple and once you are there, do not under any circumstances agree to go back to Australia.

TalkativeJim Mon 15-Jul-13 12:18:49

Just read about the holiday.

So your DD is not yet resident in Aus?

Get back here and take urgent advice, and don't go back!!

Also if DD was borne in Australia she will be a citizen irrespective of passport issue; automatically qualify for both.

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