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Friend ripped off for 35K by guy on Match.com- I need to talk her round HELP!

(180 Posts)
Friendinneed13 Mon 08-Jul-13 23:44:20

Hi All,

Am regular (ish) poster but name changed on this occasion!

A single friend who I met through work is a regular on match.com, she is in her mid forties, attractive, smart and has a great job with an excellent salary.

She met a guy on match.com approx 4-5 months ago, they had been speaking for around two weeks when they decided to meet up- on that night that had sex and spent the whole weekend together which she refers to as 'special'....

The following week at work she told me all about her weekend and that continued to tell me that he had financial problems with his business and she had invested/ lent him £10,000- she said he didn?t want to take it and she had to convince him to!!

I was so angry with her and told her so- which she didn?t like- I told her he was ripping her off etc. etc. and she promised not to give him any more money.

But??.In the last few months she has given him a further £25,000, his business folded and now he is going from one disaster to another, loan sharks, bailiffs, can?t pay rent; no food etc. which I think is all bullshit by the way.

He has told her so many lies, many of which he admits to when found out- for example he said he was getting a loan to pay her back but when she showed me the email- I did some digging and found that it was a fake email address etc. - when she confronted him he admitted it, but said he only did it because loan sharks where after him and he needed her to lend him more money etc.

She also seems in denial that he has a gambling problem- soon after meeting they went to Monte Carlo for the weekend and he spent most of the time in the casino alone gambling and losing large sums of money ? yet she continues to help him although they are not in a relationship and never really were.

I need help to convince her of what I KNOW is the truth a) He is a conman who constantly lies to her to procure money b) He is a gambler and that?s where her money is going. Every month she says that she will not give him any more money, but this month alone he has already had £1500 from her, her savings has been totally wiped out by this wanker and when payday comes around he piles on the pressure to ?borrow? more money, always promising to pay it back from some deal or property sale etc?

The problem is that although I think she is now coming around to the idea that he has ripped her off, she feels that he has some good in him and if she doesn?t help him stay afloat she will see none of her money back- she borrowed £1500 from me last month to pay her mortgage as she had given all her money to him- which she did pay me back, but her financial situation is dire at the moment because of him.
My friend likes to think she is a canny business woman, and a good judge of character then why can?t she see this guy for what he is a liar and a thief? I don?t want to lose her friendship and I care for her very much, but I?ve spent nearly two hours on the phone with her tonight as she has lent him the £1500 and now he is not answering her calls/text- which is something he has done before- she doesn?t even know where he is living now.

How do I convince her to go to the police and to STOP GIVING HIM MONEY??? HELP!

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 08-Jul-13 23:53:38

Oh dear. I don't think you're going to convince her by the sound of it. Do you have enough information about this man to report him to the police yourself? A name and address?

VodkaJelly Mon 08-Jul-13 23:54:11

How do I convince her to go to the police and to STOP GIVING HIM MONEY??? HELP!

You cant.

Only when she wakes up and realises she has been ripped off will she stop giving him money. In the mean time she thinks she is in love and is desperate not to lose him.

Until that happens there is nothing you can do or say that will stop her.

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 08-Jul-13 23:57:53

Sorry, just saw that you don't know where he is living. Even so, I would report as much as you have to the police... the Match.com connection (presumably you need some kind of contact details to register), the various e-mail addresses. He sounds like a seasoned con-man, I doubt he has a gambling problem, and I would think your friend isn't his only victim.

Friendinneed13 Mon 08-Jul-13 23:59:46

Cognito- I have a name but not an address and the way she feels at the moment she would never forgive me if i went to the police- as she feels if he ran she would never get her money back.

Vodka- What i dont understand is why she keeps doing it, every month she promises me she wont and then she gives him large sums of money and asks me to lent her money for her mortgage sad

Friendinneed13 Tue 09-Jul-13 00:01:13

Cognito- exactly I KNOW she isnt the only one- i bet he has done this many times before.... but she wont listen

Friendinneed13 Tue 09-Jul-13 00:02:43

She had given him all her savings..... everything she had and now she is giving him her monthly wages too- i am really worried about her

ImperialBlether Tue 09-Jul-13 00:06:35

Why would police involvement mean she won't get her money back?

I think you need to practise tough love, to be honest. Does anyone else know? It must be so frustrating for you.

morethanpotatoprints Tue 09-Jul-13 00:06:44

Hello Op.

Firstly, so sorry for your friend. i hope she realises soon she won't get her money back.
Just a thought, but if you don't lend her the money she can't give it to him, which will force his/her hand.
Do you think she would actually go under herself for this man though?

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 09-Jul-13 00:07:42

So what if she never forgives you? She'll never get the money back - that's delusional thinking - and she could lose everything at this rate. House, job, life savings... sanity. This is a nasty crook and he shouldn't be out there preying on gullible women via dating sites. He's already started to disappear into the woodwork and you have to act before he sinks without trace. If you saw your friend being held up at gun-point you'd call the police... so please ignore your friend's deluded feelings & call them. You may lose your friend but it's the only responsible thing to do.

Val007 Tue 09-Jul-13 00:08:06

Ok, where is the woman who mocked me for suggesting you should let the man pay for the first few weeks?

Please come on here and give me your views on THIS situation!

Who is the scrounger and leech now?...

On the subject - OP, what happened to your friend could happen to any woman and has happened to many good women. There isn't much you can do until she wakes up to the truth. But please, do not lend her any more money, as this will prolong her agony...

amistillsexy Tue 09-Jul-13 00:10:59

Stop lending her money for her mortgage. You are enabling her to carry on giving him money.
He will never pay this money back to her. He has stolen it. She needs to realise this herself.

ImperialBlether Tue 09-Jul-13 00:11:49

But Val, to gain someone's confidence it's likely someone would pay for things at first, don't you think? A few dinners here and there before asking for hard cash. That's presumably why she thought he'd pay it back - if he hadn't got money for half a pint when they first met, I doubt she would've lent him anything.

Oh and I agree with the poster who said you should do what you'd do when you saw her being attacked, because this is exactly what's happening.

Val007 Tue 09-Jul-13 00:15:43

ImperialBlether smile, which leads me to believe it should be more the first few months, rather than weeks wink.

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 09-Jul-13 00:20:02

Glad you're finding this so amusing Val007....

There is a difference between going halves on dinner and giving someone $10K on a first date. If you have difficulty appreciating this fact then maybe you should let the man pay for the first few weeks/months. But then, if you have difficulty appreciating that fact you maybe shouldn't be dating at all.

skyeskyeskye Tue 09-Jul-13 00:33:12

Has she met my ex husband hmm

Seriously though, I'm not sure what the Police can do if she has willingly given him this money.. And continues to give him money...

Val007 Tue 09-Jul-13 00:38:30

TolliverGroat, you know what? I have been there, done that. Really!

Many times going halves on dinner and lending him money go hand in hand. One of my leech exes took me to dinner. And then took out some cash out of his pocket (lent my me!!!) and paid for his part of the bill. Hahaha. He is the one who was practically living off me. Sweet talk and no substance. And thousands down the drain before I woke up.

So... after being fucked up so hard, I decided to play it as safe as possible. Can you blame me?...

TigerSwallowTail Tue 09-Jul-13 00:55:53

If you're thinking of going to the police then I think you should sooner than later, her savings have been wiped, she's struggling with her mortgage payments she's now borrowing money from friends and he's not answering calls or texts. He could be thinking of doing a runner as she's now out of money.

Friendinneed13 Tue 09-Jul-13 01:00:44

Imperial- I think she fears that if he was arrested she wouldnt get any money back as it would disappear or he would run (he has connections in spain)

More than- She lent him her mortgage money without even knowing whether i would lent it to her, so i could hardly refuse when she asked- it would have been very difficult, i dont think she would let herself go completely under, but certainly she has put his needs/wants over hers, she has a large tax bill due soon which some of her savings would have been used to pay.

Cogito- I dont think she should forgive me if i went to the police, and i have to work with her- closely! I think she would see that as the last straw she is hoping she can work on him to get her money back- which is fine but she keeps giving him more!

Ami - i agree he has stolen her money and she will never get it back- but why wont she listen??

Her Mum also knows (20k at least) and is driven to distraction by it- they have had huge rows, but she had now gone quiet as my friend told her its none of her business who she gives money to.

ImperialBlether Tue 09-Jul-13 01:06:09

You are going to have to stage an intervention, OP. You really are. She can't lose any more money to this man.

Did you see a program on TV the other night about online dating? A woman on it had lost about £70,000 I think to a man she'd never actually met. Once she told him she had no more money, she didn't hear from him again.

One thing - does your friend have anything with his fingerprints on? His DNA?

ImperialBlether Tue 09-Jul-13 01:06:49

She is gambling herself now, isn't she? She can't face the fact she's lost everything so she'll fling everything else she has after it.

Friendinneed13 Tue 09-Jul-13 01:06:59

The situation is complicated- his previous business failed and he has since set up a new office- he also has a daughter in the north, so he has an incentive to stick around.

He is just dodgy iykwim, ducking and diving etc always some deal on the go, people chasing him for money, always a story, a line, always needing money.....

TNETENNBA Tue 09-Jul-13 01:07:08

Whatever you do DO NOT lend her any money. Please sad

I don't know why people do this. It seems so so stupid but you hear stories of it happening again and again.

Have you met him? Can you get his photograph and fingerprints?

I can't think of any advice other than to tell her bluntly as possible.

He about phoning the police (non emergancy obviously) and asking for advice?

ImperialBlether Tue 09-Jul-13 01:07:31

No, OP. Always wanting money.

Why do you think she is doing this?
It is obvious that something is seriously awry, so what are the reasons for your friend being unable to see through this con man?

Friendinneed13 Tue 09-Jul-13 01:10:42

Imperial, you have hit the nail on the head- she is chasing the money now. She doesnt want to face the fact that she has lost a LOT of money to this man, and so doesnt want to risk anything which may mean he may run, or not be 'able' to pay her back.

So she helps him 'stay on his feet' - but this means giving him more money- its a vicous circle, and he know its and is using it against her

kickassangel Tue 09-Jul-13 01:11:41

Would she even know who went to the police? If he's a con man they could be after him anyway. How would she ever find out if someone pointed them in the right direction?

Friendinneed13 Tue 09-Jul-13 01:16:41

Norks, i think at first she really liked him, thought she could 'help' him, she is lonely i think and really wants to be loved.

But now i think she wants her money back and so is trying to keep him on the hook so to speak, by keeping contact etc, but she KEEPS giving him MORE money, as he says things like i cant stick around, ill end up in hospital if the loan sharks get to me, and she panics, she feels that if she doesnt give him more she will lose everything.

Friendinneed13 Tue 09-Jul-13 01:18:05

But this is all part of the con..... spinning a yarn........ it could go on forever at 2k a month now he has has all her savings

MagzFarqharson Tue 09-Jul-13 01:24:25

So sorry for your friend OP. These people are truly despicable.

Posted on the Dating Thread a while ago about two of my friends who almost fell for these scams. Both on Match.com.

One was about a pipe-line which accidently didn't meet in the middle, so needed a large cash injection to correct it, after which untold riches would be forthcoming. Friend told him she had no money,never heard from him again.

The other was the sick child who needed desparately to be brought back to the UK for life-saving surgery. This friend told him to forward their passports so she could buy their air tickets. Never heard from him again..

I'm sure I've seen documentaries on these scams on Channel 4?

My heart goes out to anyone who has fallen for these mean, nasty, grubbing pieces of shit.

Mixxy Tue 09-Jul-13 01:25:46

If she is giving it willingly, is it a crime?

MagzFarqharson Tue 09-Jul-13 01:26:19

sorry - desperately

Friendinneed13 Tue 09-Jul-13 01:29:29

Mag, Thank you so much- unfortuantely this type of thing seems very common smile

Mixxy, im not sure, but he has told so many lies to procure money, isnt that fraud in some way?

Friendinneed13 Tue 09-Jul-13 01:30:08

meant sad not smile of course!

Friendinneed13 Tue 09-Jul-13 01:31:49

He is an absolute wanker of the highest order, Ive never met him, and dont wish too, he talks to my friend like shit most of the time and i would be likely to tell him to f off!

Mixxy Tue 09-Jul-13 01:32:37

I'm not sure about it. Unless she got stuff in writing like a business or investment contract, I'm not certain it wouldn't just be seen as a personal loan gone wrong. I'm sure a barrister will come along shortly and clear that up.

Where do these men come from and how do they recognize otherwise perfectly smart women as easy pickings?

MagzFarqharson Tue 09-Jul-13 01:36:45

OP Maybe you should meet this pond life and tell him to fuck right off!
They don't seem to stick around once they've been rumbled - scumbags...

Friendinneed13 Tue 09-Jul-13 01:37:39

Mixxy, I dont know!! She is my colleague and at work she is confident, intelligent and in control, when it comes to him all logic goes out the window!

No contract etc, but emails/texts with her saying the money is a loan and him saying he will pay it back in full.

Friendinneed13 Tue 09-Jul-13 01:39:11

Mag, i dont think he would want to meet me tbh, she hasnt met any of his friends,fanily etc and he hasnt met her mum and dad or friends- he has kept a very low profile.

garlicsmutty Tue 09-Jul-13 01:50:57

Have you considered posting on scam-busting sites like scamwarners.com, OP? Also, if you don't mind sinking £50 more, join Match and set up a male profile as him, asking for news of any other members he's conned. If your friend gets to see that he's already done this to other women, the reality might sink in quicker.

It must be awful to watch her doing this sad

MagzFarqharson Tue 09-Jul-13 01:51:19

Friendinneed13 live up to your name... if ever you had a friend in need it's now.

Fuck what 'he' wants. Be at her house, for some reason, next time he's due round for the pick-up to profess his undying love for her.

Your presence will show him he's not in total control of her and he'll hopefully back off and/or show his true colours to her.

Sorry OP, I shouldn't be suggesting you be put in this difficult position, but this is your friend... is there no-one (mutual close friend?)else who could - discreetly - become involved in her rescue?

garlicsmutty Tue 09-Jul-13 01:52:36

I think it is criminal fraud. Do you think he's ditcher her now she's broke?

garlicsmutty Tue 09-Jul-13 01:53:14

*ditched

garlicsmutty Tue 09-Jul-13 01:57:18

You can also try doing an image search for his face. Sometimes gives back 1,000s of faces that are only a bit like the submitted image but, if he has a standard profile picture, there's a fair chance of finding his profiles under other names ...

MagzFarqharson Tue 09-Jul-13 01:59:05

garlic I don't know, but supect as a PP said, she's handed the money over willingly? He's not claiming to invest in a non-existent company or stocks/bonds which never materialise... Don't know any of that for certain though confused

Longdistance Tue 09-Jul-13 02:01:35

Do you know his full name? If you do, Google is your friend. He may have already done this to someone else.

Yes, I agree with pp. you should just turn up when he's there to 'meet' frighten the fucker

Mixxy Tue 09-Jul-13 02:03:38

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud_Act_2006

garlicsmutty Tue 09-Jul-13 02:18:08

"Fraud by false representation" is defined by Section 2 of the Act as a case where a person makes "any representation as to fact or law ... express or implied" which they know to be untrue or misleading.

Well, he's done that throughout, hasn't he?

MagzFarqharson Tue 09-Jul-13 02:28:42

Would friend be willing to see him charged though? love is blind at times, clearly <from experience but not as bad as this>

Tiredtrout Tue 09-Jul-13 04:24:14

You could try calling action fraud on 03001232040 for advice, they've taken over all fraud investigations and are a specialist team at city of London police. They'd be able to give you an answer on whether there is a criminal offence first of all and actually have the ability to do all of the work

TobyLerone Tue 09-Jul-13 04:46:08

She is not as smart as you think she is.

garlicsmutty Tue 09-Jul-13 04:47:50

That's useful trout, I didn't know about it! Thanks!

garlicsmutty Tue 09-Jul-13 04:54:55
differentnameforthis Tue 09-Jul-13 06:48:27

Well, don't give her any more money for a start. Perhaps if she has no one to bail her out, she will wake up to his lies & realise he has been stealing from her.

Until she is in difficulty (not able to pay mortgage) she doesn't see how this is affecting her. It needs to start start affecting her, which I know goes against everything you probably feel as a friend (i.e that she struggles with bills if you are able to help) but she needs a harsh lesson, imo.

TimeofChange Tue 09-Jul-13 07:30:20

She may consider remortgaging or taking out a loan in her name to get more money for him.

Do NOT lend her any more money.

hermioneweasley Tue 09-Jul-13 07:39:58

Tell her that you are concerned about her, and however this ends you will always be her friend, but that you will not be lending her any more money, so if she lends to him it is without your safety net to bridge her mortgage payments.

Awful and very frustrating situation.

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 09-Jul-13 07:57:29

If you're aware that a crime is taking place, you should have the courage to report it. This is large-scale fraud.

JessicaBeatriceFletcher Tue 09-Jul-13 08:26:24

There is, sadly, none so blind as those that choose not to see. In these cases, very often they don't see it as the rest of us do and don't until they have - a bit like alcoholics - hit rock bottom when the bloke has cleared off, doesn't answer the phone and your bank account is dry.

And generally they won't listen whatever you try and tell them. I agree with the others, if you can get any of his details, pass them onto the fraud unit.

Wowserz129 Tue 09-Jul-13 08:55:51

I don't see a crime here. She is willingly giving him money in sound mind so he's doing nothing illegal. I have worked in relevant areas and I know we are reluctant to get involved in relationship finances because there is rarely a way of proving who gave what and when. I would suggest she see a solicitor to see if she can get her money back legally in a proper manner. I certainly wouldn't be bailing her out with money. Anyone who gives someone that much money that quickly is their own worst enemy and I think maybe your friend needs to hit rock bottom with money to wake up. There is nothing much you can do, as long as she is mentally well she is an adult making these decisions to her own disadvantage.

TNETENNBA Tue 09-Jul-13 09:19:01

I may have been watching to many films but if I were her I would consider getting a private detective on to him. Perhaps get him to come over by luring him with more cash and get footage of him admitting the loans etc.

catsmother Tue 09-Jul-13 11:07:37

I don't know about the legal side of this - whether or not a crime has been committed - but there'd be no harm at all in speaking to the non emergency police for advice. Am sure, sadly, they'll have heard this type of thing before.

I can kind of see that your friend is hanging onto him blindly in the hope she'll get her money back but come on, even she must know that given his past behaviour (who the hell asks someone they've only just met for any sort of loan, let alone one as large as that ?) that this is almost certainly not going to happen - and that's the case whether he sticks around, or whether he does a disappearing act, i.e. she'll be no worse off. TBH, I think what's important now is damage limitation - if the police got involved, and if he ran, that "at least" she'd not be pressured/emotionally blackmailed into "lending" him any more money and her home wouldn't be compromised.

I know you're in an incredibly tough position OP and I know you fear her turning on you and/or ending the friendship. I'm kind of thinking though that if I was in your position I'd have to weigh up what course of action was the lesser of two evils - to do nothing, let this situation run and run with potentially disastrous results for your friend - or at least try to stop it, e.g. by seeking police and/or legal advice, even if that did mean your friend "hated" you forever more. FWIW, I suspect that when she's away from this bastard and starts to face up to reality she would eventually come round and understand that you acted with her best interests in mind, but even if she didn't, even if she never spoke to you again, I think that'd be a price worth paying personally in order to protect her from further ruin.

skyeskyeskye Tue 09-Jul-13 14:01:36

She has met this man, she has willingly given him money. No crime has been committed. If there is a loan agreement and he doesn't repay, then she can take him to court. I bet there is no agreement, so it is just his word against hers as to whether it was a gift or not.

This is not a dating scam by an unknown crime gang, she has met the man and given him her money.

When I first my my XH, I took his credit card debt into a 0% card in my name to help him out. He could have done a runner and I would have been left with the debt in my name and no way of getting the money back from him. It didn't happen, but it could have.

I am sorry, but your friend is a mug, who has willingly handed this money over to him. I seriously doubt that the Police would be interested, or indeed able to do anything about it.

I feel sorry for her, but she only has herself to blame.

Please do not lend her any more money yourself

EldritchCleavage Tue 09-Jul-13 14:13:26

Please tell her you will not lend her any money, so she has to make sure she keeps enough of her own money to pay the mortgage.

Ultimately, she has to realise what is going on for herself, but if she speaks to you about it I would tell her that she has to accept all the money she has lent so far is lost and cannot be got back, and that she should stop throwing good money after bad.

ImperialBlether Tue 09-Jul-13 16:42:58

Of course it's a crime to con someone out of their money! There's a whole police department set up to deal with this sort of crime.

Friendinneed13 Tue 09-Jul-13 16:53:28

Agreed she gave him this money willingly and what upsets me even more is that she keeps giving it to him even when he lets her down time and time again with regard to paying it back.

She knows he has told her lies, she know he has let her down time and time again, but still she gives me more and more money.

Intinally, I think she really liked him, but now I think she is fooling herself into thinking that if she gives him more money to keep him going, that she will be more likely to get the bulk of it back.

She feels like she is in control in some way, but I know she isnt..... he has full control of this situation......

ImperialBlether Tue 09-Jul-13 17:01:21

God, it almost sounds like he's hypnotising her or something. She really badly needs help.

OP, I asked earlier whether she has anything of his that would have his fingerprints or DNA on. It would be really easy to find out whether he has a record for this.

nkf Tue 09-Jul-13 17:12:13

Is it a crime? You have to refuse to give her money.

ImperialBlether Tue 09-Jul-13 17:15:37

It is, because he's presenting himself as ready to pay back, when he clearly isn't.

NickL Tue 09-Jul-13 17:41:06

The police no longer investigate fraud. Instead they set-up Actionfraud. It's a website where they take your details and then do nothing.

If anyone is considering turning to crime I would recommend low-level faud as a very safe option with little risk of the police doing anything.

ImperialBlether Tue 09-Jul-13 17:46:10

Action Fraud must do something!

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 09-Jul-13 17:55:47

Of course it's a crime. Deception The man is getting money under false pretence by claiming to be hard up, have failing businesses, gambling debts, mobsters on his tail... all sounds like a pack of lies. He's promising to return the money which is clearly false. Does the case of Robert Hendy-Freegard ring bells with anyone?

garlicsmutty Tue 09-Jul-13 18:01:01

What Cog said - again! [echo]

It wouldn't be fraud if all his stories are true and she's received a share in a failed business for her initial 'investment'. But that's not the case.

garlicsmutty Tue 09-Jul-13 18:02:12

Come on, OP, give us a link to his profile and let the MN snoopers loose!

yamsareyammy Tue 09-Jul-13 18:25:13

I would speak to your local police yourself, and see what they advise. I wouldnt tell your friend that you are going to the police in the first instance.

I think I would also google and print out some examples of where other people have been conned like your friend. And show them to her. Not sure if it would work. She may well say, but that isnt me, it is different to me, or whatever. But worth a shot I would have thought.

yamsareyammy Tue 09-Jul-13 18:29:22

The root of all of this is her loneliness.
It may be a bit late now, but would she listen if you said that she may well find someone else?

bugsaway Tue 09-Jul-13 18:37:20

what on earth is driving this woman to do this?

she is going to lose everything has she not realised this?

as a friend make her see sense

Wowserz129 Tue 09-Jul-13 22:08:04

For those of you saying of course it's a crime, it's a lot more complicated than that. She is not being conned because she is aware of what she is doing and OP makes it sound like she knows that she most likely is not getting her money back but she continues to give it. If every money grabber in a relationship was committed of fraud the police stations would be packed.

yamsareyammy Tue 09-Jul-13 22:18:47

She was conned at the beginning though Wowserz?
Are you police or a lawyer?

With conning, you first win their confidence, which is what he did.
It may not now be conning, as she knows what he is up to??

That is part of the reason ehy I hope the op is going to see the police.

WhiteBirdBlueSky Tue 09-Jul-13 22:57:50

Are you saying that you're gong to lend her money for her mortgage OP? If so then please don't.

She needs to deal with the consequences of her actions. It might shock her awake.

skyeskyeskye Tue 09-Jul-13 23:15:18

Even if she could get him to call it a loan, if he goes bankrupt it would be written off anyway.

She has been foolish, nobody held a gun to her head to make her hand it over.

She will probably never see that money again.

Friendinneed13 Tue 09-Jul-13 23:19:46

Hi All,

Thanks so much for your repiles, he has conned her and continues to do so, and that is what I find so hard to grasp.

She continues to give him money in the vain attempt to get her orginal amount back plus all the rest, why can't she see this could go on forever?

She has texted me to say that she has called him tonight and he has told her to f off, this is not unusual for him though, he says some awful things to her but she puts this down to him being stressed about money.

She would never forgive me if I went to the police and I don't want to lose her friendship as I feel he would have a greater hold over her if I wasn't a voice of reason in this situation.

I have lent her money which she has paid me back, but I think she will ask to lend some later this month again, to cover her mortgage.

She has been bad with money in the past, lots of credit cards, loans etc and is now in a debt management plan, and all the while is giving her hard earned money to him.

I'm afraid that he will again be tapping her for money soon, I just can't listen to it anymore, she tells me all the conversations they have, I ask her to promise me she won't give him any more money, she swears and then does it anyway sad

Onesleeptillwembley Tue 09-Jul-13 23:32:56

There's nothing you can do. Sadly, you can't fix stupid, just don't join the chain.

skyeskyeskye Tue 09-Jul-13 23:42:15

How on earth did she have that much savings if she is in a debt management plan? She should have paid her debts off !

I am really sorry but from your OP, he told her his business was going under and she willingly handed over money! And continues to do so. The Police will tell her to stop handing over money! There is nothing they can do while she continues to hand it over.

Try and get her to see sense and don't give her any money!

WafflyVersatile Tue 09-Jul-13 23:50:52

She won't know it's you who has phoned the police. He is possibly already known to them.

I think it's worth the risk of losing a friendship. She might lose her home.

BMW6 Wed 10-Jul-13 07:06:11

There's nothing you can do. Sadly, you can't fix stupid, just don't join the chain.

This. There is nothing you can do, she is throwing good money after bad and she will never get it back even if he is arrested and imprisoned, it will all be gone.

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Wed 10-Jul-13 07:17:53

Don't lend her money.

You think you are helping her but you are NOT!

you are helping her to carry on being ripped off by this man by being someone she can go to for the essentials so she can carry on giving him cash.

You have to let her sink. It is the only way now. If she has nothing, he will disappear.

And be there for her to help her back up.

Please, please, please don't lend her any more money. You think you are saving her but you're not.

Deep down, she knows. She knows she's being taken for a ride but it's too painful for her to admit it even to herself. If she stops giving him money, he will disappear and she will have to face it.

You are helping her to put off that day. Please stop.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 10-Jul-13 07:26:12

If she's not prepared to listen and you're not prepared to report the man to the police then you have to ditch the friend. Currently you're getting drawn into the whole miserable business because you seem to feel responsible for her when you're emphatically not. You fear losing her friendship when she doesn't actually sound like much of a friend. I'm sorry, but if you carry on listening to this descent into hell and do nothing concrete to stop it, it'll be you that suffers.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 10-Jul-13 07:39:34

"She is not being conned because she is aware of what she is doing"

She is being targeted by a predatory con-man. There have been many other cases in on-line dating, for example, where men pretending to be US servicemen have successfully scammed gullible, lonely women into sending them money for 'plane tickets'.

Here's a Telegraph Blog entitled [http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/technology/willardfoxton2/100009028/the-marriage-of-online-dating-and-online-fraud/ The Marriage Of Online Dating and Online Fraud]]. First case he mentions is a wealthy woman asked to send an 'engineer' she met online several thousand to help his 'ship that had run aground'. It's the exact same thing. Fake profiles and sob-stories purely designed to extort cash. He estimates that 2.5% of the people on online dating are victims fraud. He also says most don't report it because they're too embarrassed. Match.com have already been involved in a lawsuit about fake profiles.

Should it come to court 'she gave me the money voluntarily' is no defence if the reason the money was given is proved to be false.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 10-Jul-13 07:40:26
yamsareyammy Wed 10-Jul-13 08:20:22

You need to be a friend to her and see the police
You need to be a friend to her and stop giving her money

If you dont , several things may happen to your friendship
1. afterwards, when she "wakes up", she will blame you that you didnt act on her behalf, because you could see what was happening.
2. she will blame you for enabling her. She will says things like "what were you thinking, giving me money, to give to him, when you knew he was conning me.

For me, the question is becoming, what are you getting out of this. Why are you essentially letting her financially drown.
Wake up yourself.

I know this sounds harsh, but for goodness sake, do something.

yamsareyammy Wed 10-Jul-13 08:23:48

"I feel he would have a greater hold of her if I wasnt the voice of reason in this situation"

What do you mean by that.
Because all of us on here think you are enabling her, you are helping him too.

JessicaBeatriceFletcher Wed 10-Jul-13 08:34:38

So, she has a complete history of being financially inept and irresponsible, even before this chap came along? Seems abundantly clear won't matter what you say and do.

Sometimes, being a friend is NOT about being there but saving someone from themselves, even if it buggers up the friendship. Sorry, but if going to the police stops her from bankrupting herself and potentially losing her home the way she is going and also gets this guy publicised and possibly imprisoned so he can't do it to other people, you should damn well do it. Even if she never speaks to you again. Because lending her money is the WORST thing a friend could do in this situation. Standing by and doing nothing because you may lose her friendship is the SECOND WORST thing a friend could do, because you are putting your wants ahead of her obvious needs.

yamsareyammy Wed 10-Jul-13 08:40:57

yes, I sort of missed that Jessica.
I suppose in the cold light of day, she may in the end still think it was worth it, for now?
That she was "happy" , and managed to buy some "good times" for however many months.

There must be thousands like her, who are willing to try and "buy" love and happiness.

But she is soooo going to pay in older age, when all her money is gone to. All of it. So that she is too old to work much, and hasnt got a bean to her name.
<she may still think it is worth it. <shrugs> >

You could ask her that question I suppose, but like someone said upthread, she is sort of currently in a sort of trance.

PatriciaHolm Wed 10-Jul-13 09:18:36

hang on - how on earth has she found £35k to give him if she's on a debt management plan? Has she been borrowing herself?

Call the police, don't lend her any more. Whatever is happening here, you need external help.

TweedWasSoLastYear Wed 10-Jul-13 09:50:05

IS there any way you could find out this guys full name?
If you can match this to any company names he has had it may be posssible to do a search through companies house . You pay £2 or so for a copy of the annual returns. If they show bankruptcy or substantial losses then you might be able to convince your friend to cut contact , and accept that the money is gone.

She will never see a penny of that cash again.

Be careful OP that your loans are not being diverted to him, and I know no-one on any sort of debt repayment scheme who is able to find £35K .
Why would you put £35K in the bank earning 2% before tax, when you have a mortgage costing you 4% after tax. That is madness. Utter madness.
Keep 3 mths take home pay to hand ie current account , then overpay mtg asap
and trips to Monte CArlo, im sorry but did this guy have a pair of binoculars round his neck? he saw your friend coming from a mile away

EldritchCleavage Wed 10-Jul-13 12:30:28

Detach from her urgently, I would say. In her own way she's doing to you a milder version of what the man is doing to her. Her financial crisis is (i) self-inflicted; and (ii) her problem. Don't let her make it yours.

jay55 Wed 10-Jul-13 17:10:05

Are you certain it is her being conned and not you?
Could she be spinning the story to get money from you?

Really if she's on a DMP she's not allowed to take on more credit and she has to inform creditors of change in circumstance, which she must have had if she had 35k to give away.

ShoutyCrackers Wed 10-Jul-13 17:10:14

I'm confused.

She has 35k knocking about and can get her hands on it easily to give to him, as well as afford to give him £1500 of her monthly income, yet you say she has a debt management plan.

Something doesn't quite add up here...

ShoutyCrackers Wed 10-Jul-13 17:10:46

I'm struggling to believe parts of it

ShoutyCrackers Wed 10-Jul-13 17:13:55

And con artists don't usually employ the tactic of telling their 'victims' to fuck off regularly. That makes no sense either

BreadNameBread Wed 10-Jul-13 18:31:37

ShoutyCrackers. I think con artists can and do verbally abuse their victims. Not that I am an expert in these things blush but I have read victims accounts that , when written down, just seem ridiculous.

I agree that the OP should make sure that her friend really is being conned.

littlemisssarcastic Wed 10-Jul-13 18:49:34

OP, How does she give him the money? Does she withdraw cash and put it in his grabby little hands? Does she transfer funds via bank? Does she write him cheques?

Friendinneed13 Wed 10-Jul-13 22:16:19

Hi All,

Just to answer a few of your questions..

1. She has mismanaged money in the past and got stung in the property crash, she bought a property to develop, then the bank wouldn't lend anymore against it to complete the required work, so she placed approx 30K all on credit cards which she struggled to repay. She entered the debt management plan a couple of years ago for that reason.

2. We both work in software development on contracts, when she started this contract she had hardly any savings, she earns approx 8.5k a month before tax, that is how she has amassed the 35K + in a short period of time ie over the last six months.

3. I lent her the 1500 on a monday, she repayed me the following monday after we were paid on Friday, she just didn't have enough in her account to cover her mortgage, that's the only time I have lent her any money.

Friendinneed13 Wed 10-Jul-13 22:18:25

Basically this money was the oppotunity for her to get on her feet againn instead she has given it ALL to him

Earthworms Wed 10-Jul-13 22:21:27

Sounds like she is unlucky and shit with money.

If you help her out of this crisis she will promptly lurch toward another one.

Be a friend. But dont get involved. You will be in for a world of hurt.

yamsareyammy Wed 10-Jul-13 23:25:34

But you are not going to do anything are you.

yamsareyammy Wed 10-Jul-13 23:27:58

You are going to let her go down the plughole.

I dont normally come across harsh on my posts - look me up, but on this occasion I feel you need a push rather than a gentle nudge or shove.

yamsareyammy Wed 10-Jul-13 23:28:30

If you wont do something, tell someone who will.

garlicsmutty Wed 10-Jul-13 23:32:15

OK, so while she's on this contract she's a useful cash cow for Bob - unless he's found another sucker with savings or a fat credit line. Has he been back in touch since stomping away at the weekend?

Do you have any of his personal details? If doing detective work yourself feels too time-consuming or sordid, how about giving it to a PI? This absolutely can't be the first time he's done it and it IS fraud.

yamsareyammy Wed 10-Jul-13 23:38:59

She wont go to the police, but neither wil you!

Friendinneed13 Wed 10-Jul-13 23:59:10

I'm not letting her go down the plughole she has done that to herself. Her mum has told her to stop giving him money, she has begged her, screamed and shouted.

I as her friend have listened to her hour after hour, debating whether to give him more, I have said to her she is being stupid, being conned but she simply won't listen.

The issue is she got carried away in the moment the first weekend lent him 10k and has been chasing that inital amount since- she is trying to get herself out of this situation by putting good money after bad, but she won't listen, when I tell her it must stop.

I've suggested a PI, I've even offered for us to follow him in my car, if that will at last open her eyes, I've said we can seek legal advice and I will go to the police with her but I get the response- just let me see if I can talk him round, in some way I think she is enjoying the drama.

She has spoken to an old friend who is ex police and he told her its unlikely they would take any action, she gave the money freely, he didn't threaten, they is no loan agreeement, he asked for her help, she gave it.

This is a really shit situation because she has not fully accepted yet that she will not get this money back and when it does it will hit her hard.

He has been back in touch, a few texts etc, but then again its pay day in a couple of weeks...... He has been quite nasty to her, not answering calls etc which is helpimg the realistaion I think.

SavoyCabbage Thu 11-Jul-13 00:05:21

I agree with Jessica, that you may have to sacrifice the friendship in order to save her from herself. She might not thank you, but it's the right thing to do as you care about her.

yamsareyammy Thu 11-Jul-13 08:34:50

She may well be enjoying the drama.

Perhaps you could ask her the question
"if you dont get any of the money back, will you still be glad that you met him"

It is possible that for her, the answer may be yes.

Friendinneed13 Thu 11-Jul-13 11:47:31

She said she wishes she had never met him, but Im not so sure...........

JessicaBeatriceFletcher Thu 11-Jul-13 11:57:07

So, "*Friend*", what are YOU going to do to put a stop to this? Or are you going to just carry on as before?

aturtlenamedmack Thu 11-Jul-13 12:10:49

Firstly op, I'm sorry for your friend, what a horrible bastard.
If it were my friend I think I would do the following.
Have an extremely frank talk with her, explain that it is very very unlikely that she will get her money back, and that the more money she gives him, the less likely it will be. Keeping him sweet is not the way to get it back, she will only end up losing more.
I think that maybe she is embarrassed and feeling stupid and weak for being taken in. The only way for her to take her power back is to confront the matter head on, if she sees him again then she could try to get as much info as possible about him and then go to the police, or you go on her behalf.
All sorts of women are taken in by men like this, they are cunning and prey on any crack or vulnerability that they can. Try to reassure her that it isn't her fault.
Definitely involve the police, even if you can't do anything else, she may be angry in the short term but in the long term she will thank you for it.

aturtlenamedmack Thu 11-Jul-13 12:12:57

He is relying on her not taking action against him before it's too late. He will try to get as much out of her as possible then he won't be seen for dust. Police involvement now before he realises that she is becoming suspicious.

garlicsmutty Thu 11-Jul-13 13:21:18

He is a predator. Perhaps using that word could empower her?

Pigsmummy Thu 11-Jul-13 14:48:42

I would suggest that she talks to the police, if nothing else they might be able to say that they "are aware" or not of this individual, as if he is doing this now he might have a history of doing it?

The other thing to try is if your friend is hell bent on lending more money then get her to get him to sign a contract to pay it back. A simple contract that says that he will pay it back without scary terms, if he is considering it a loan and will return the money along with the £35K. She isn't a licensed lender so it won't be worth a lot but gageing his reaction to it will be interesting and some small part of the loan can be claimed back the small claims court.

scrazy Thu 11-Jul-13 15:04:49

She cannot have been in debt and have this money to give to this guy. I don't understand that bit, or how anyone with an ounce of intelligence would continue lending money so she could get the bulk of the other money back.

I don't think you can help her tbh.

scrazy Thu 11-Jul-13 15:08:50

Sorry, just read properly.

Wow 8.5k per month is very good money indeed. They always say don't lend what you cannot afford to lose.

I would suggest what other people have that she gets him to sign a loan agreement.

garlicsmutty Thu 11-Jul-13 15:11:25

Scrazy, I wondered about that but OP has explained. She entered into payment plans and then her income increased dramatically. Although she should have rescheduled her plans to account of improved circumstances, a lot of people don't. The debts get cleared eventually, at £30 a month or whatever was negotiated.

garlicsmutty Thu 11-Jul-13 15:11:43

xpost!

yamsareyammy Thu 11-Jul-13 16:07:02

What is going to happen in 2 weeks if when he asks her for money again, and if when she asks you?

Friendinneed13 Thu 11-Jul-13 16:39:17

Hi All,

I think it is finally stinking in that she is not going to get her money back but she has now gone into denial....

She is stressed and snappy at the moment as he has cut all contact with her except for abusive texts and very short calls in which she cannot engage him into any coversation......

He knows the money is running out and so is losing interest although he has done that before..... but is back again when she is paid at the end of the month!!

He is now feeding her some line about selling a property, and then paying her back from that, which is further bullshit, he has some similar before selling cars, assets etc.....

What then happens is that he says that he needs money to 'keep him going' till then...... and she gives it and then the money doesnt come through from him........ and the circle continues..........!

skyeskyeskye Thu 11-Jul-13 16:48:41

As I thought, not a Police matter. He didn't come up with a scam or fake investment, he was in financial trouble and she willingly gave him the money then threw good after bad.

You cannot help a person in debt by giving them money. That is rule number one as they never ever learn anything that way.

I know someone who was £40k in debt, his mother remortgaged and bailed him out and then he ran up another £40k and went bankrupt anyway.

People like that never learn their lesson. Your friend hasn't either as she should have taken responsibilty for her debts and paid them off rather than amass all that money.

You cannot help her or him. They both have problems.

yamsareyammy Thu 11-Jul-13 16:54:55

Agree sky.

I think that perhaps the only thing you can do now is say, repeatedly if necessary, ad infinitum "You wont get your money back. "You wont get your money back".

You didnt say what you are going to do at the end of this month. Give money to her?

CogitoErgoSometimes Thu 11-Jul-13 17:02:59

"She has spoken to an old friend who is ex police and he told her its unlikely they would take any action, she gave the money freely, he didn't threaten, they is no loan agreeement, he asked for her help, she gave it."

She spoke to an ex policeman? Really? hmm For someone who has been screamed by her mother and best friend not to give him any more money and who has routinely failed to take any notice whatsoever, exactly how likely is it that, quite off her own bat, she went and sought advice from an ex-copper.... advice which handily turned out to be 'don't tell the police'?

I don't believe this... I think you're being fobbed off and deterred from reporting it. It's deception, fraud & he's a predatory con-man targeting vulnerable women out of their savings. Match.com should be alerted, and the police should be informed.

Vellimetry Thu 11-Jul-13 17:14:49

What an absolute mess. If this is true (and lots of it doesn't add up, so I for one suspend judgement there) then it looks unfortunately like you are going to be asked for a lot of cash soon by this friend of yours, which you will never see again.

I am unsure why you are getting so involved, anyway. She's an ex-colleague and a bit of a pal, right? Not a lifelong friend who's been close to you through thick and thin? I wouldn't take this sort of hassle on without a bloody good friendship behind it. Stop enjoying the drama, let her get on with it!

Friendinneed13 Thu 11-Jul-13 17:47:11

Hi All,

I honestly dont enjoy the drama- but ive allowed myself to be dragged into it unfortunately!!

She is a currently colleague, and a friend but ive only know her for six months, she doesnt have many friends in the UK as many are aboard in Europe.....

I know she is lonely- again she thinks she is canny enough to get him to give her the money back.... she proves this by saying ' he stays in contact he must want to do the right thing' ive said ' no its that he wants to fleece more money from you'........... she wont listen.

Im going to have a serious chat with her over the weekend and explain to her exactly what i think and that i know she will never see this money again........ and that she needs to go to the police........

yamsareyammy Thu 11-Jul-13 17:57:44

You havent said [I dint think] if you are prepared to give her more money yourself.

garlicsmutty Thu 11-Jul-13 18:00:34

Good luck. Sounds like she needs to drum up some anger from somewhere. She certainly deserves better than him!

bugsaway Thu 11-Jul-13 18:31:00

the woman sounds thick - show her this thread

CogitoErgoSometimes Fri 12-Jul-13 10:30:27

" and that she needs to go to the police........"

'... and that you need to go to the police or I will'

BreadNameBread Fri 12-Jul-13 12:15:52

Lots of normally sensible and intelligent people get scammed. It is not fair to call the 'victims' thick. I know it looks really bad written down but we don't know the dynamics of the relationship between the 'boyfriend' and the OPs friend. She is in an abusive relationship. Noone, I hope, would call someone who was 'staying' in a relationship and getting physically abused 'thick'

EldritchCleavage Fri 12-Jul-13 14:29:40

Are you sure he exists, and your friend is being scammed? Because maybe she is the scammer and you are the scammee. She's paid back the money you lent her last time (asked for at the last minute, hard to refuse in a crisis...) but she may not pay back any future amounts you lend. Worth thinking about.

Mixxy Fri 12-Jul-13 23:37:51

Oh, the plot sickens eldritch. Are you a crime writer. Should be. I would never have seen that coming!

TondelayoSchwarzkopf Fri 12-Jul-13 23:50:03

I am thinking along the same lines as Eldridge.

bugsaway Sat 13-Jul-13 01:55:42

yes but come on who gives someone 10k after one weekend together? and is sticking around so they can get it back?

garlicsmutty Sat 13-Jul-13 02:06:30

I dunno, a slightly autistic programmer with a poor understanding of relationships, perhaps?

Although I am one of those who wondered whether OP is being scammed, I don't think the story is impossible. My mum joined Match after she was widowed, and met quite a few chancers who were clearly looking to con her for money. She was naive and vulnerable, and did lose some money though nothing too drastic. One in particular, though, was very confident and moved as fast as this - luckily, she talked to us before 'investing' in him, but he was slick.

pudtat Sat 13-Jul-13 02:29:28

Things you may be able to help your friend realise:

This IS a con. That is fraud. You/ she can go to the police.

She won't see it because she will feel stupid and embarrassed and ashamed and the brain looks to prove itself right. You may have success in talking to her about how clever he has been in manipulating her to stop her feeling some of this. Deep down she already knows but...

The initial lump sums were the scam.

Now she is in a 'recovery scam' - a second phase which preys on the insecurity of those who realise they've been scammed and offers them a way out. In this case a small additional investment to keep him on his feet leaves open the possibility of recovering the larger debt.

This won't happen because there won't be a business, or loan sharks etc. that's a line which has worked (and continues to do so). There may or may not be a gambling problem, he may have just spent it. Either way without intervention it's definitely gone. With intervention, asset seizure might see some recovered. There is nothing to be lost by going to the police and its the only way something might be gained.

Don't enable her further by bridging the gap. Say you can't afford to lend her more - it's good to see others practicing this message.

Try to be concerned and supportive and don't make her feel stupid. She will do that enough herself. She is being abused, and many of the emotional responses that keep people going back to DV are the same. This may help you consider how to handle her.

Friendinneed13 Sat 13-Jul-13 20:52:53

Garlic- Where was the guy who tried to rip your mum off based? Not in Rugby or Shrewsbury?

I've had a long chat with my friend this afternoon, I've told her there is no property, no money coming to her it is all lies, she has been conned.

She said that she knows he is a liar, but she thought because she had helped him he wouldn't let her down.

She is very down at the moment because he won't even speak to her now on the phone, so she feels as though she has lost all control (not that she had any)- he has completely cleaned her out and she has a big tax bill to pay in september.

She also owes money to two friends who helped her finish her property when the bank wouldnt give her anymore and her cc were maxed- 10k to one and 50k to another! It seems she is absolutely rubbish with money!

I've told her I won't be loaning her anymore money as I can't trust she won't give it to him (she didn't ask) and I wouldn't, I was brought up to be very careful with my money, I'm a saver not a spender!

I've told her that he must be reported both to the police and to match, she says she will do this, but doesnnt feel stromg enough at the moment- I've told her if she doesn't by the end of the week- I will.

kalidanger Sat 13-Jul-13 21:07:08

Your circle lend each other enormous sums of money. I'm astounded hmm

Friendinneed13 Sat 13-Jul-13 21:48:39

Her friends do! I don't- I was brought up to know the value of money- I'm tight! smile I save! My dad would turn in his grave if I spent money the way she does!

Although I earn more than her, I don't spend much on clothes etc, holidays and nights out are my weakness!

The amounts of money are huge I agree! Yes I earn very good money for what I do- but I know it might not always be that way- make hay and all that!

garlicsmutty Sat 13-Jul-13 22:01:51

God, I'm so relieved you've had this conversation, and she's now facing the truth. She must be feeling like shit. I really hope she stays in touch with real life - you're a good friend smile

My Mum's scammer was in Shrewsbury and it was a tale about unfinished property! Unlikely to be the same bloke, though, he'd be around 70 now. Perhaps it's his father - family business??!

yamsareyammy Sat 13-Jul-13 22:13:53

Your friend is in a big mess in so many ways.

She may just scrape by, one way or another while she continues to earn these huge sums.
But when she isnt, she will be in messes she wont be able to get out of.
Sadly, I dont see her learning anything much, either financially or emotionally, anytime soon.

citizens advice bureau may be able to help her sort things out financially?

Friendinneed13 Sat 13-Jul-13 22:17:18

Garlic- really? That's spooky, the stories this guy has come up with are a joke, business struggling, business folding, baliffs, loan sharks, court summons, selling cars, selling flats, money in offshore bank accounts, no money for rent, car, food etc, setting up new business etc
Did your mum actually meet him? Or just see a pic?

My friend has even let him stay in her house for the weekend- which I didn't know about- he used her paypal to set up direct debits ( she gave him the login) she's paid for his car monthly payments - he's got a merc but apparently no money for food- the list goes on sad

Half of this I only found out today- the mind boggles, she is really down, anxious, can't sleep and feels stupid and embarrassed- I'm really worried about her sad

She has transferred over 35K to him and she has only known him since March and must have only seen him under ten times- - I just can't understand how someone who can be so strong and capable and in control at work could have been taken in like this.

garlicsmutty Sat 13-Jul-13 22:28:12

Oh no, she gave him the run of her house? He could have all sorts of information that he can use to pay himself money from her accounts ... the ones that still have any credit or access to credit, anyway. Giving him her Paypal might turn out to be a good thing, as she can see he abused it! She has changed her login ...?

Yes, Mum met the slick bloke, spent the weekend with him; all very similar. She was due to go with him to visit the house that needed finishing, but called it off. He had other properties waiting to be sold (of course) and drove a nice car, etc. Glad she's a bit more suspicious than your pal.

Friendinneed13 Sat 13-Jul-13 22:29:19

Yam, I agree-at work she is so in control and strong super confident- boarding on boarish- you'd never believe that she could be fooled like this.

She gets very upset if you point out that she was foolish - she simply says she wanted to invest in his 'business'- then why no contract?

What really annoys me is that we have been talking about these problems for a least two months all the time she is telling me she is not giving him any more money and she is- even though she knows he is a liar and doesn't pay it back !?! I really don't get it sad

This last week has been hell at work with her, she is snapping at everyone really touchy etc, our programme manager has taken her aside, I'm worried if she carries on she will get booted of the contract with no notice..... sad

Yet she is telling me this morning that she has been taalking to another guy who she met on match and wants to meet up with him! What a mess! sad

garlicsmutty Sat 13-Jul-13 22:29:25

£3,500 a meeting? He'd better be a good shag.

Friendinneed13 Sat 13-Jul-13 22:35:57

No she told me he was crap!

garlicsmutty Sat 13-Jul-13 22:40:14

I get it sad Both my husbands (yes, I'm a slow learner ... ) stitched me up. The second divorce cost me everything - money, flat, health, friends. I didn't know about emotional/psychological abuse at the time - if only I'd had Mumsnet then! - and was, basically, flummoxed into a state of emotional confusion which left me agreeing to complicated deals that I thought looked fair enough to begin with but then couldn't get out of.

The problem isn't stupidity so much as not realising that people can be this calculating; that they actually get a kick out of abusing other people's good will. To them, it's like hunting or, maybe, a computer game; they enjoy it. She has been emotionally, verbally and financially abused.

garlicsmutty Sat 13-Jul-13 22:41:34

Blimey, I hoped she'd at least had a few good times!!!

yamsareyammy Sat 13-Jul-13 22:44:45

Perhaps she thinks that she is always in control of situations?

Does she always try to see the good in people I wonder?

Friendinneed13 Sat 13-Jul-13 22:59:03

Garlic, I was stitched up a bit too by a long term ex- but I had been with him for many years and I fought him tooth and nail so he didn't get anything!

Yam and Garlic, Yes she does like to help people and is very trusting, he has taken full advantage of that, she calls me cynical, I like to call it realistic!

I agree she has been abused and I have told her so, I am here for her, but she must stop giving him money- she has sworn to me that she wont

yamsareyammy Sun 14-Jul-13 10:36:44

She needs to learn, even at this later stage, that trust needs to be earned. By everyone. That what you see, is often not the whole truth, or in her case, even part of the truth.

See, how can she call you cynical. Alarming.

JRmumma Sun 14-Jul-13 10:44:48

Ive been in a similar situation Op, knowing someone who did this. Basically, the police can do nothing if she is willingly giving him money and is of sound mind. She is entitled to do what she wants with her money. Only she can report it.

It really does baffle me how there are still people who fall for all of this but she obviously has emotional issues that need to be addressed.

Maybe the shock of not being able to pay her mortgage for a few months is what she needs. Stop giving her money as you are enabling her.

garlicsmutty Sun 14-Jul-13 14:11:52

Some posters aren't getting the meaning of fraud. OP wrote "the stories this guy has come up with are a joke, business struggling, business folding, baliffs, loan sharks, court summons, selling cars, selling flats, money in offshore bank accounts, no money for rent, car, food etc, setting up new business etc." Unless his stories - the causes for which she gave him money - are true, and he is making repayments as promised, then he's conned her.

yamsareyammy Sun 14-Jul-13 14:18:41

I must admit that this thread has made me utterly confused about conning.

I normally end a thread being more enlightened, or my knowledge exapnded.

In this one, I have managed to end up confused.

yamsareyammy Sun 14-Jul-13 14:19:35

I go from agreeing with posters like JRmumma, to agreeing with garlic, and back and forth infinitum.

JRmumma Sun 14-Jul-13 14:35:58

Yes he may be conning her, but unless SHE makes a complaint to the police then there is no fraud. She could well be feeding OP a load of rubbish and know full well where the money is going. Im not suggesting for a minute that she does, but legally there is nothing that can be done by the police.

garlicsmutty Sun 14-Jul-13 14:45:34

It's straightforward. A pal says she's short for the weekend as she paid in a cheque on Thursday. You lend her some money, on the understanding she'll pay you back by Tuesday. It turns out there was no cheque. She lied to get your money. That is fraud.

Whether trust = "stupidity" is a different debate.

Whether the police could be arsed to pursue it would likely depend on whether this same guy has been reported for similar offences - that's a very big reason in favour of reporting, so they get the chance to link his scams.

garlicsmutty Sun 14-Jul-13 14:47:18

JRmumma - it's not as if I have any money to lend but, knowing your perspective on cons, I wouldn't lend it to you wink

JRmumma Sun 14-Jul-13 14:58:34

Its not my perspective garlic, its what the police told us when we tried to stop someone doing similar. We even went to said persons bank as even though she was of 'sound mind', she was vulnerable. They said the same thing. Nothing can be done until they realise they have been had.

Not saying its not fraud, just that the person being subjected to fraud has to be the one to report it, otherwise the police cant do anything. Unless you have access to physical evidence which prove money was lent on certain terms and those terms have not been adhered to. My friend told me on the phone the other night' just isn't enough in afraid.

yamsareyammy Sun 14-Jul-13 14:59:38

The bit I dont understand, I think, is why the police cannot or would not do something in this case.

yamsareyammy Sun 14-Jul-13 15:00:40

x post, but still dont understand.

garlicsmutty Sun 14-Jul-13 15:19:41

Oh, I see, thanks. You're not saying 'tough shit, you asked for it,' but that you don't think any official bodies would bother with it unless she reports it herself.

I feel it's always worth trying to raise an alarm. Don't decide on behalf of the police! They say "Report any suspicious activity to actionfraud.org.uk or call 0300 123 2040." You could also call 101 for advice.

garlicsmutty Sun 14-Jul-13 15:22:30

Yams, the cops would need to have evidence. I think the assumption has been that the only person who can provide that is the victim. However, the police will also question a possible victim if they can see a pattern, so that's the biggest reason to report it imho.

JRmumma Sun 14-Jul-13 15:29:57

You can report it sure, but they wont do anything until an actual complaint is made. You cant complain that your friend has been ripped off for them.

If you can provide details if his real name, address etc then worth a shot, but if this is a con then i doubt you will have either of those. If he feels like anyone is on to him, he will close all match.com, email, phone accounts etc and start again and fool someone else. Op's friend will never hear from him again and then there will be no leads for the police either.

MissStrawberry Sun 14-Jul-13 15:32:31

This weekend I have read yet another story about women being taking in by people who aren't who they say they are. Why do intelligent grown women continue to fall for such con artists? This year alone I have read a handful of stories about women losing thousands of pounds to men who "seduced" them to be able to fleece them.

Your friend needs a huge dose of self esteem and confidence so that she doesn't feel she has to stay with this man who has proved to be not the man she thought he was.

garlicsmutty Sun 14-Jul-13 15:35:08

Your friend needs a huge dose of self esteem and confidence

YY, Strawberry. I was thinking I bet she has an overbearing father and/or an emotionally immature mother.

JRmumma Sun 14-Jul-13 15:44:33

I reckon most women who find themselves in this situation have emotional problems which are the reason they are sucked in. As intelligent as you may be, if you are desperate for love then you turn into a fool, but we can all relate to that a bit, if not on this scale.

Friendinneed13 Sun 14-Jul-13 20:41:28

Garlic,

In fact its her father who is emotionally immature and her mother who holds it all together...

Although they are also both bad with money and have run up large debts.

On the outside my friend is very confident and self assured, and can sometimes be overbearing, but i agree she is obviously emotionally very needy to be taken in by a wanker like this.....

She has spoken to him today and he is saying he cant give her any money back at the moment- even though she needs it to get through the month- 'i cant help you mate' is what she gets from him- even though apparently he is paying out money to others that he owes (lies....)

He just wont enagage in conversation with her - until a couple of week i bet- when its payday......... Ive told her that if she gives him anymore- i dont want to hear anymore about this whole thing- if she wont listen to reason i cant help her sad

Friendinneed13 Sun 21-Jul-13 11:24:33

Update....

He has been talking to her again on the phone after cutting her out for over a week.... Funny that as its payday next friday.

I'm fuming he has asked to stay at her house next weekend and she is letting him! I begged her on the phone last night not to let him anywhere near her or her house, but she knows better,she says this will give her more 'control' as apparently he is getting money from a flat sale next week- bullshit!

I told her he would pay her back wherever he is if he really wanted too...

I can't believe she can't see that he is ramping up again to ask for money- he has done this before, she thinks it gives her more control, in fact its the other way round, that's why he wants to visit, hell know she has been paid and will lay it on thick to get money.

I can't understand WHY she can't see this- apparently she has told him that she will call the police if he doesn't pay her back- I'm not sure it believe her.

I'm so pissed off with this she just won't listen....

CogitoErgoSometimes Sun 21-Jul-13 11:28:20

I can't understand WHY you keep expecting her to listen. One definition of insanity is repeating the same action and expecting a different outcome. You all seem to be stuck in this bizarre loop doing the same things, experiencing the same outcome.... and I don't understand why it still comes as a surprise. Someone has to stick a spoke in the wheel....

skyeskyeskye Sun 21-Jul-13 11:28:25

as long as she doesn't give him MORE money.......

Walkacrossthesand Sun 21-Jul-13 11:51:46

How about if you use your insight into the situation to predict to her what will happen ie 'look, X, it's payday next week, that's why he is coming to see you. I predict that, far from giving you money back , he'll be laying on a sob story to get more out of you. If I'm right, remember this conversation - and if the outcome of next weekend is anything other than him repaying some of the money he owes you, I don't want to hear another word about it - and I'm certainly not lending you any more money'.

LoveBeingUpAt4InTheMorning Sun 21-Jul-13 12:13:27

Get her to give you her cards and for you to change her PayPal number

newbiefrugalgal Sun 21-Jul-13 12:25:13

Yes that's a good idea about the cards.
Get her to log on together and change her online banking too do that she can't access that!
Make sure she has enough cash for a coffee for the weekend, food in fridge etc. no more.
Let her see what he does.

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