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Talk to me about anger management for DH

(86 Posts)
PuffDaddy Fri 28-Jun-13 09:02:57

DH has a foul temper. Very short fuse and can blow up over innocuous things - the traffic, my tone of voice, anything. I would say this anger surely stems from his daily use of marijuana. He disputes this and says he always had a short fuse. On the whole we have a good relationship but all too often we have a blazing row over...nothing and his reaction is disproportionate with the catalyst.

So this morning example, the buggy was in his way as he was trying to rush out the door to work so he started shouting and swearing. I told him his language was disgusting and this turned to me "f*ck you" etc. He has never been violent towards me but his rage is unpredictable and he can throw stuff, kick doors etc. His face contorts with anger and in those moments, I can't stand him.

Anyway I am sick of this - can anyone talk to me about anger management? Is it available on the NHS and does it work?

DonDrapersAltrEgoBigglesDraper Fri 28-Jun-13 09:06:52

'Anger management', you say...? hmm

I don't think anyone, in good conscience, can recommend you finding a way to manage his anger. sad

MorrisZapp Fri 28-Jun-13 09:08:27

Sorry to hear this, it sounds horrible. I think the advice is that if he flies into rages at work, with his friends etc then he may have anger issues and could address these via counselling etc.

If however he only rages at you, then he is choosing to do this, and is abusive.

Either way, you can't help him. He has to want to change, and to do the work himself.

To be blunt unless he wants to change there is no point.

I was in a relationship with someone like this (except the physical stuff) the verbal blow-ups were horrendous. They gave up marijuana and completely changed.

You can lead a horse to water, but cannot make it drink.

He is abusive.

You need to think about whether this is a healthy relationship to be in.

scarletforya Fri 28-Jun-13 09:27:46

Does he realise he has a problem?

Lweji Fri 28-Jun-13 09:29:06

Anger management for your OH:
he stops being this angry or you leave him the next time he kicks anything, shouts at you or calls you names.

It doesn't really matter if he's only angry at you or other people too. Unless he recognises he has a problem and he wants to change, you can't do anything but remove yourself from contact with him

pictish Fri 28-Jun-13 09:31:32

Yes...it would be great if you could manage his anger, but sadly it doesn't work like that.

You can't do anything. He has to want to, or it's never going to change.

His behaviour is disgusting btw. Who the hell does he think he is? King Dick?

pictish Fri 28-Jun-13 09:32:32

Do you walk on eggshells trying not to set him off?

GirlWiththeLionHeart Fri 28-Jun-13 09:34:44

Anger management won't work if he's smoking weed.

pictish Fri 28-Jun-13 09:36:30

Oh - and if he is able to contain himself and not fly off the handle around other people...his mum, his friends, his colleagues, then you have a deeper problem again. That's not an anger problem, but an abusive one.

Lovingfreedom Fri 28-Jun-13 09:39:56

Sounds like he needs a large dose of 'shove it up your arse'. That's what I gave my ex who had similar 'anger management' issues and it was at least 95% effective. He's still an annoying twat but not in my house.

PuffDaddy Fri 28-Jun-13 09:47:02

Argh this is is why I was hesitant to post, I knew that by holding a mirror up to this, I would see some ugly reflections but I do need to think this through.

First of all, yes he is aware he has a problem. After these incidents we would typically have a productive discussion but obviously these don't achieve anything as he quickly loses it again at the next provocation. But short answer is yes, he recognises it.

He refuses to to connect this to his smoking of weed. He has smoked for years and was a smoker when I met him but before marriage and kids, I didn't foresee how much I would come to hate it. I have never smoked myself.

He does blow up at other people so it is anger issues rather than abuse i would say though i suppose it's a fine line. He is sometimes embarrassing to be with in public as he will totally blow his top when he perceives he has been slighted by others eg a surly waiter. I have witnessed blazing rows with his Mum, my Mum et al. In his eyes, he blows off steam and then it is all over. He doesn't seem to get that for the other person ie me it is not all over, I am left hurting while he has a cathartic rage. Yes he is selfish.

But I don't want to LTB and in spite of this, he is not an ogre. He works hard, he is kind, funny and charming and generally a big personality that people love to be around.

Meglet Fri 28-Jun-13 09:48:30

You don't need to know about anger management.

He needs to stop smoking weed and stop kicking off or get out of the house for good.

I tried Relate with my ex, I told him about anger management and he refused to do it. He's someone elses problem now.

DiaryOfAWimpyMum Fri 28-Jun-13 09:52:48

I would say this is more than the weed, I know people who smoke it at night after work but they are not 'angry' because of it.

I don't believe in anger management tbh, how do you manage anger? confused

He sounds abusive, again, I've yet to see an abusive person change, male or female.

MrsHuxtable Fri 28-Jun-13 09:53:16

Your children must be scared is all I'm saying...

Shouldn't your H be doing his own research? It's his problem to sort out, not yours.

Lovingfreedom Fri 28-Jun-13 09:57:01

Does your DH consider himself to have a problem? Is he looking for your help to solve it? If the answer is 'no' and it's just you trying to change him by stealth then I'm afraid you're on a hiding to nothing. What incentive does he have to change or to attend classes?

PuffDaddy Fri 28-Jun-13 09:57:42

The kids haven't really been exposed to it I don't think but yes, I'm sure it's inevitable.

He's just popped back home - works v close by - to apologise and seems genuinely shaken. I'm cynical now and becoming hardened to both his outbursts and his apologies

DiaryOfAWimpyMum Fri 28-Jun-13 10:01:37

I thought my DC didn't see much of it but they did.

Where was the DC when he told you to 'fuck off'. They pick up on this and yes, no doubt he will be feeling sorry for himself guilty now.

He needs to get help and actively seek it, not you and even then I'm still not sure you can 'manage anger' we all feel angry but do we all walk around telling people to 'fuck off'?

I bet he only treats you like this. Very sad. My friend is going through the same

Anger management is successful for people who have uncontrollable emotional responses and who can become trapped in escalating spirals of heightened emotion. There are programmes that can address behaviour and support people to implement coping strategies to avoid escalation. This type of therapy is generally used for people who have an underlying psychiatric condition such as emotional intensity or borderline personality disorder.

Anger management is not successful when the problem is a deep rooted belief that the person is entitled to behave abusively to people in their life. Your husband's behaviour is abusive and stems from a belief that he in actually entitled to take out his frustrations on you. He doesn't need to learn to manage his anger because deep down he gives himself permission to behave like this. Behaviour management isn't what he needs, the only thing that might work is wholehearted participation in an abuser programme which would challenge his fundamental belief system. They don't have a great success rate.

Also - no mental health service would take him on while he was smoking weed.

Lovingfreedom Fri 28-Jun-13 10:10:56

My ex was very good at apologising too...but it came to the point where I realised that most people don't need to apologise that much because they generally respect other people and act decently most of the time.

Also, when most people do have to apologise, they dislike it so much that they tend to learn from their mistakes to avoid being in the identical position again and to avoid hurting others again.

It took me years to realise that my ex's apologies were manipulative because I felt duty bound to accept apologies. And it was really just a way of getting away with the same behaviour over and over again. He was convincing though.

I don't know your situation, but seriously the outburst followed by apologies is something that I recognise very well and lived with for a long long time. And I would not ever want to go back to living like that. It's exhausting and it's thankless.

Just because he doesn't save it all for you doesn't mean it's any less of a choice/belief. Some people are fundamentally damaged and selfish and believe their views/wishes/needs are more important than anyone else's and therefore they will stamp all over or shout down anyone who disagrees.

DonDrapersAltrEgoBigglesDraper Fri 28-Jun-13 10:22:42

The kids haven't really been exposed to it I don't think

Gosh, that's really unconvincing, even to you, right? Let alone us.

Haven't really. I don't think.

DonDrapersAltrEgoBigglesDraper Fri 28-Jun-13 10:23:49

Lovingfreedom - well done on getting out of that.

Lovingfreedom Fri 28-Jun-13 10:30:24

wine thanks DonDraper!

You are clearly aware he has a problem but he does not. You cannot and must not take any responsibility here for his actions.

Anger management won't help this man at all and no decent counsellor would see him anyway because of his weed smoking.

You need to think carefully about why exactly you are in this relationship now. Perhaps it is out of an innate fear of being on your own perhaps, pride, a feeling of wanting to make this work regardless of the cost to you and your children?. Your children won't thank you for staying with him, they could well end up despising you instead because you did not choose to leave and in their eyes you put him before them.

Something is keeping you here and if you have children they are seeing and hearing all this and know more than you realise. You cannot protect them fully from his emotionally abusive outbursts.

What are you both teaching them about relationships here?. Two words currently suffice, damaging lessons.

You have every right to be cynical re his intentions because he is at heart abusive and shows every sign of being known as "the Loser" in relationship terms.

mouldyironingboard Fri 28-Jun-13 10:37:19

Ask him what he is going to do about his anger problem. Is he prepared to get therapy and stop smoking weed? Only he can sort this out but he has to want to change his behaviour.

My DHs ex has an anger problem and she has never dealt with it and it has affected their DC badly. Please don't let your DC grow up in such a horrible atmosphere if he isn't prepared to sort himself out.

OxfordBags Fri 28-Jun-13 10:51:31

Let's be blunt here, OP: your husband is a violent, aggressive, abusive, unpredictable drug addict. Being a drug addict doesn't mean being collapsed with a needle in your arm under a railway bridge, wearing rags. Your OH has all the hallmarks of serious drug addiction. Cannibis use, particularly if he is using the new types of skunk, can cause serious changes to brain chemistry, from anything from being a moody arsehole to full-blown psychosis.

Don't kid yourself that him being angry outside the home doesn't mean he isn't abusing you. That just means he abuses you and others. Do you know that being rude to waiting staff is a huge red flag in spotting an abuser? And that being violently angry with his own mother? Huge red flag too.

You cannot change him and you cannot help him. It is not your place to. When you are being abused this way, it makes you feel responsible for him, but you are not. What you ARE responsible for, however, is the welfare of your children. If you think they haven't witnessed any of this appalling behaviour, or, more importantly, aren't being affected by it, then you are more deluded about this than he is about the cannibis affecting him! Children see, hear, perceive and feel everything. Being in this atmosphere is guaranteeing them behavioural, personality and relationship problems for the rest of their lives. Abuse is acceptable in their family, be it screaming obscenties at Mummy or in the car. Treating women like shit and women taking the abuse is normal in their family. Treating strangers (other drivers, waiters, etc.) aggressively is normal. Taking drugs and addiction is normal (they will kow one day). Irrational behaviour is normal. Expecting other people to tolerate whatever vile behaviour you throw at them is normal. Allowing yourself to lose control of your temper and control is normal. Having no respect for anyone else is normal. Need I go on? Both their parents are teaching them to be future abusers and victims, and to be shitty, addiction-prone individuals who can't and won't treat others properly.

He sounds like an immature, abusive knobhead who believes he is entitled to indulge his own temper who also happens to be an addict partaking of a drug infamous for affecting temper and behaviour.

OxfordBags Fri 28-Jun-13 10:52:18

Cannabis, not cannibis, sorry.

www.drjoecarver.com/clients/49355/File/IdentifyingLosers.html

PuffDaddy, you need to read the above as well.

fromparistoberlin Fri 28-Jun-13 12:36:08

I dont think its maruana

I think he is maybe has decided to himself thats its OK to speak to you this way

read this book OP
"Why does he do that", by Lundy Bancroft. it really helps you see things clearer

I have similar issues, I am seeing a counsellor which is really helping me cope with stuff

anger is same, issue s are same, but I am fuck of alot stronger and coping better

good luck!!

Namechangingnorma Fri 28-Jun-13 17:00:00

My DH gave up weed 3 months ago after smoking daily for 23 yrs. Your OP could describe him to a t, and yes he did blow up with everyone, not just me. On the flipside he is the most warm, loving, funny guy to be around too.
Anyhow, the difference since he gave up weed, is unbelievable, he is so much more calm and even tempered, it really is quite astounding. He is also having CBT to help him manage the triggers which set him off. I didn't put any pressure on him to give up weed, he just decided one day that he had, had enough. You can't persuade someone to give up something they are addicted to unfortunately. I really didn't link the weed to the anger because he was so docile when stoned, generally, I just though it was his nature.
So from my experience now, I would say he needs to give up the weed first and then look into some type of therapy, it may take you to leave him to do this.

cestlavielife Fri 28-Jun-13 17:02:38

with you with his mum with your munm...all people he thinks or knows he can get away with it right?

what about his work?
what complaints there ?

either he accepts a problem and gets help (he ahs to you cannot - but you can change your reactions ie start making it clear it isnt acceptable; leaving with dc for the weekend etc ) or you seriously consider living apart
to protect the dc from this

cestlavielife Fri 28-Jun-13 17:03:40

with you with his mum with your munm...all people he thinks or knows he can get away with it right?

what about his work?
what complaints there ?

either he accepts a problem and gets help (he ahs to you cannot - but you can change your reactions ie start making it clear it isnt acceptable; leaving with dc for the weekend etc ) or you seriously consider living apart
to protect the dc from this

garlicnutty Fri 28-Jun-13 17:23:09

My DH gave up weed 3 months ago after smoking daily for 23 yrs ... the difference since he gave up weed, is unbelievable

This also describes someone in my family. Unfortunately his mid-life renaissance can't rewrite his children's histories: now grown up, they have chronic relationship problems.

Namechangingnorma Fri 28-Jun-13 17:52:06

Garlic, I know you are talking about your family but DH has a 15 yr old daughter, they are really close and he is a really good dad, DSD massively has her yead screwed on and when and if DH used to lose his temper we would just roll our eyes at each other and giggle

Lweji Fri 28-Jun-13 19:58:47

So, he knows he has a problem...

Has he given up weed?

Has he sought help from his gp?

Does he practice anger control tactics?

You don't want to leave him, which is understandable, but it doesn't seem like he's going to get better unless you are prepared to make him go if he continues like this.

golfpro60 Tue 02-Jul-13 00:07:39

Hi OP
I have stumbled across this post as I sleep in the spare room yet again after another ow with my moody, cannabis smoking husband. I could have written your post. I have got to the stage now where enough is enough for me and maybe soon you will also come to this stage. I just can't take the moods anymore and the unpredictable and withdrawn behaviour. We are not even 3 years married and have a beautiful ds but I fear now as he gets older, he's nearly 2, it will be awful for him, and I just can't bear it anyway. It's such a hard decision as my husband is usually a very fun loving, intelligent and sweet guy who would do anything for u but he has become so angry and withdrawn. I really feel for u and myself being in exactly the same situation. How is your husbands sex drive if u don't mind me asking? Mines is not really there and he is very unafectionate which I blame too on the weed. He doesn't see this at all. I believe it alters thier minds so much there version of reality and he world around them is so distorted. My husband also rude to people. At the airport he other week there was a delay and he started being really rude and shouting at the check in lady so I told him to calm down and he went off at me in front of everyone calling me names, saying I shouldn't be embarrassing myself!!! It was awful. Sorry to harp on just thought we could moan together. I'm going to tell him we should Seperate tomorrow :-(

Handywoman Tue 02-Jul-13 00:12:15

Good luck, Golfpro

AnyFucker Tue 02-Jul-13 00:13:34

You think your children aren't being affected by living with a violent, out of control abuser ?

Think again

Do you value your relationship with an inadequate drug user over your children's emotional well being ?

it certainly looks like it from here

golfpro60 Tue 02-Jul-13 00:30:36

Thanks handy woman. Can't believe it has come to this, really heartbroken. X

AnyFucker Tue 02-Jul-13 00:36:03

GP60, you are doing the right thing x

golfpro60 Tue 02-Jul-13 07:48:51

Thanks af, it's very hard as he is great in so many other ways and has provided for us all in a big way. But he uses this and seems to think his outbursts are ok because of it. I tell him the weed is ruining him and he could be so much better without it but he doesn't see it. He says he knows he smokes too much but doesn't stop. I know it's an addiction and I've tried to help. But I can't live like this anymore. Walking on massive egg shells here. Scared to speak sometimes and started second guessing everything as always seem to do things wrong. So hard to walk away when from the outside u seem to have it all and with a little one too. But how can we go on like this? I see couple walking along the street holding hands and I'm green with envy! He doesnt even like being touched and tells me I'm sitting 'on top of him' if I sit next to him on the couch?!

PuffDaddy Tue 02-Jul-13 08:12:46

Thanks for sharing GP60 and wishing you all the luck in the world. I can imagine what a difficult decision that was to make and I hope things work out. Does he know that you plan to separate?

Your story mirrors mine all too well although you are a bit further along the road. We too have been married 3 years with a 2.5 year old and a baby of 9 months. And our sex life is pretty non-existent but he is affectionate at least.

While I really appreciate the advice given here, it has been shocking to me to see how many think it's a dead end situation. I really hope (d) that as a couple and a family we could resolve what's been going on. Those of you who say I value a relationship with a drug addict over my children are wrong but every journey starts with a step and it is a baby step that I am taking now to see if anger management or something could help DH and us before our family unit implodes.

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 02-Jul-13 08:12:48

"I know it's an addiction and I've tried to help"

The only way to help an addict is to create some consequences to their behaviour bad enough to force them to take responsibility for themselves. All the time you are still with him, tolerating the violence, making excuses & letting him be part of your family, you are condoning his behaviour. Because he's an unreasonable & abusive man, he will exploit this situation but have no intention of changing. That's why you get the crocodile tears and fake promises after the outbursts. It's an entirely selfish tactic on his part.

If you really want him to tackle his problems, tell him to leave. If you want to be safe and your children to grow up in a harmonious household, tell him to leave. If he genuinely wants to reform and be part of the family again, he'll do something about his behaviour. If not, you've lost nothing.

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 02-Jul-13 08:19:23

"it is a baby step that I am taking now to see if anger management or something could help "

The problem you're not accepting is that this is not your journey, it's his. If he is really worried about your family unit he would be the one on this website asking for help, researching therapists, booking himself on courses, getting addiction treatment. He would be the one taking the baby steps. Not you.

One member of my family was an alcoholic. Other family members, acting out of the very best intentions, went to great lengths booking her into clinics, getting her treatment, setting her up in accommodation and so forth. It all failed because it was being done for her, not initiated by her.

Throw the problem to him, tell him to leave until he sorts himself out, and see how seriously he takes it.

AnyFucker Tue 02-Jul-13 08:34:01

Agree completely with cog

You are trying to manage someone who doesn't see the problem

You will fail

And all the while you collude in exposing your kids to their own damage

You're not helping him but enabling him instead which only gives you a false sense of control.

He does not want your help besides which you are too close to the situation to be of any real use to him. You are currently putting his needs before anything else.

DiaryOfAWimpyMum Tue 02-Jul-13 11:21:01

I am someone almost 3 years out of a relationship like this, please listen to what the other posters are saying, especially about the children.

I didn't think mine witnessed much abuse but we all walked on eggshells and my xh was/is a weed smoker too amongst other things, my children have just finished their counselling, both had to go for a year, one may keep going, they are lots better now but were left very confused

Being raised in an environment being on constant edge and me being called all sorts of names wasn't good for any of us, we are out of it now and our lives have improved 100%.

My xh is still the same, still sends me abusive messages when he can (facebook under false names) and has moved onto abusing his fiancee, whose DC have been removed from them because of him.

Leaving/splitting up from my xh is one of the hardest things I have done, it was also the best decision I could have ever made. Best of luck to both of you.

nenevomito Tue 02-Jul-13 11:40:39

Oh lord, I could have written this last year - and actually did under another username.

DH smoked weed and was an utter bastard. Every time I said I wanted him to stop, he told me I couldn't tell him what to do as it was his life and I'd know he smoked weed when we got together.

It took me telling him that while I couldn't make him do anything HE didn't want to, I could decide what I was prepared to put up with and I wasn't prepared to put up with someone angry and unpredictable, so if he chose to continue to smoke, I would choose to leave him.

He's not smoked for over a year now and doesn't need anger management or anything else. He decided that if his choice was to smoke weed as he had done for the last 20+ years, or to lose me, he decided to quit the weed.

Make a decision about what YOU are prepared to put up with and if its not someone getting angry and shouting at you then you know what to do. If he makes the choice to keep smoking, then at least you know you're with someone who thinks weed is more important than you.

lottiegarbanzo Tue 02-Jul-13 11:50:49

Well, the only things I think you can do are to say 'I will leave you unless you tackle this, to my satisfaction, by this date'. Or, 'I've had enough of this, I'm leaving, you may be able to win me back if you tackle this issue, to my satisfaction'.

Jibberoo Tue 02-Jul-13 12:01:13

Oh Puff - your story is sadly identical to mine. Only difference is I'm 5 years into the relationship/marriage and only have 1 DS. I agree that the simple LTB is not always the simple answer. I have struggled for years now to try and modify DHs behaviour. I've managed to get him to stop smoking for a bit but he always goes back to it. He has been on antidepressants that have helped but its no way to live permanently. I guess my DH differs from yours in that he isn't a big personality that everyone likes to be around. Sure he can be charming and fun but he tends to alienate people because of his behaviour (although he's never so angry outside of the home - mine or his parents).

I am a strong willed person and therefore am not necessarily intimidated by his temper just sick to death of it. That's probably why I haven't LTB - no matter how much he yells, swears, throws things etc I don't feel scared or belittled - just pissed off that I have to deal with this out of control toddler.

The really sad thing is that I am watching my lovely, gentle DS (4) pick up on his dad's behaviour. Just this morning DH had a mini tantrum because someone pissed him off (he took it out on me of course) and left for work swearing and slamming the door. Later when DS didn't want to get dressed I left him and went outside - annoyed I didn't respond to his whining he came into the conservatory and slammed the door really loud. Of course I dealt with this little display but it did get me worried that DS is being taught how to behave badly when frustrated.

We have tried counselling but that did nothing to help as I think DH believes its not him its the world hmm
however I am not giving up yet. I will find a way to get through to him and get him to stop smoking as I truly believe that this is the root of the problem (yes he gets angry but I think its the dope that makes his moods shift so much - we all get angry some times but those who aren't dependent on a drug are probably better able to cope with stress/anger and hence don't blow up).

As my next course of action I have printed out your post and I intent to show this (and the wise responses) to DH so that he can see what his behaviour looks like and how normal people respond to it. Wish me luck smile and good luck to you on your battle

lottiegarbanzo Tue 02-Jul-13 12:04:05

Well, OP has her own journey to begin, the one about putting her children first. I thought that was what she was saying just now.

AnyFucker Tue 02-Jul-13 12:09:56

Jib, you are making a mistake and your own son's behaviour is reflecting that

You cannot "modify" someone else. You can only, as babyheave says, decide whether you will or will not live with it

You are giving him the message you will live with it

Expect nothing to change, except in the very short term

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 02-Jul-13 12:16:17

I actually don't think the OP is thinking about her own journey at the moment. She's as much in control of her journey as the horse is in charge of the man on its back.... ie. not at all. For whatever reason she thinks the future of herself and her children depends on her getting help for this man, not on striking out solo. The precedent is there. Two years ago her response to his unreasonable behaviour was to go to Relate... same belief that this can all be solved if he gets 'help' and that it's her responsibility to provide it.

In this scenario the abusive man with all his excuses, issues and neuroses is #1, the kids are probably #2 and the OP is running a very poor third to everyone else. Sad really but very common.

joblot Tue 02-Jul-13 12:20:56

I am gobsmacked that women put up with such dreadful behaviour in a person who's supposed to be their partner. These men sound like your worst enemies. They sound like they don't respect or care for you- op and jib. Ltb is rarely easy but seriously why do you want to live with such angry selfish people? You seriously think you have the power and magic to change them? I'd be surprised if you do. I could be wrong but I think you are enabling not disabling their dreadful behaviours by putting up with it and suggesting you can change it, ie it's your responsibility

ageofgrandillusion Tue 02-Jul-13 12:25:09

Your husband is loud and nasty, abusive to waiters - cunt. Your kids will grow up the same with this wanker as a role model. Depressing all round really.

ageofgrandillusion Tue 02-Jul-13 12:27:35

Oh and the cannabis smoking is a complete red herring. Plenty of people smoke this stuff and, while it might turn them into tedious mong heads, it doesn't turn them into nasty, abusive, twats.

AnyFucker Tue 02-Jul-13 12:29:28

I have said it before and got slated for it, but anyway

I think there is a kernel of arrogance in some people that think they have the power to change someone else. The children are the ones that suffer in these kinds of fucked-up relationships.

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 02-Jul-13 12:41:52

Desert Island Discs guest this week, cognitive psychologist Steven Pinker, made the interesting comment that 'only a newly-wed believes that you can shape the personality of your spouse' but that how you treat them can affect the quality of the relationship. Taking that perspective, the OP is naive perhaps rather than arrogant. But if they continue to treat their partner as someone incapable of taking responsibility, the quality of their relationship will continue to get worse and worse.

Jibberoo Tue 02-Jul-13 12:43:50

don't get me wrong - I do realise that what im doing isn't right. But then again breaking up my DS's home isn't right either. he didn't do anything to deserve that and he does love his daddy. As adults I believe its our responsibility to sort things out and DH does want to - he is addicted to dope, just stopping is not that easy. He is my partner and I will try and help him for all our benefits (not indefinitely but i'm not ready to give up yet).
As for DS - he has a good role model and 99.9% of the time he follows positive behaviour (he is also only just 4 and a bit of a strop now and then is probably more to do with his age then anything else but I can assure you he wont be slamming any doors again!). DS is smart and kind hearted enough to know what's important in terms of behaviour and what is wrong.
I agree its wrong to put up with this but I did agree to good times and bad - I cant just chuck in a family because my partner needs help (which he does and anyone who things taking drugs is OK should join him on the help waiting line - and btw I used to do drugs but then I grew up!)

AnyFucker Tue 02-Jul-13 12:51:42

Enabling him isn't helping him, Jib

Like most addicts he has to lose everything before he will truly understand the risks he is taking with his family.

You are protecting him from that like he is a helpless child not in control of his own destiny. It does him no favours.

if the family is broken up, it will be his fault not yours

Jib

Children love parents, no matter how abusive they are. Your son would still be entitled to have a relationship with his dad post separation. You have not cause this relationship to fail - your H has by his actions and this is already busted.

Apart from enabling him (which btw will just prolong the agonies for you) what you have tried to date has simply not worked. You also sound codependent as well by thinking that you can still if you try hard enough get through the blockages into his head. Wrong on all counts there I am afraid. Your boundaries re your H are completely messed up.

Also your son is picking up on all this underlying tension between you and your H and is acting accordingly. I frankly do not believe you when you state your son has a good role model. No he does not if you are thinking of your H here. This is truly mixed up thinking on your part.

Codependents feel responsible for other people's feelings and problems
or blame their own on someone else.

A consequence of poor boundaries is that you react to everyone’s thoughts and feelings. If someone says something you disagree with, you either believe it or become defensive. You absorb their words, because there’s no boundary. With a boundary, you’d realize it was just their opinion and not a reflection of you and not feel threatened by disagreements.

Another effect of poor boundaries is that if someone else has a problem you want to help them to the point that you give up yourself. Its natural to feel empathy and sympathy for someone but codependent people start putting others ahead of themselves. Infact they need to help and may feel rejected if the other person does not want help. Moreover, they keep trying to help and fix this other person, even when the other person clearly is not taking their advice.

One of the problems people face in getting help for codependency is that they’re in denial about it, meaning that they don’t face their problem. Usually they think the problem is someone else or the situation. They either keep complaining or trying to fix the other person, or go from one relationship or job to another and never own up the fact that they have a problem. Codependents also deny their feelings and needs. Often, they don’t know what they’re feeling and are instead focused on what others are feeling. The same thing goes for their needs. They pay attention to other people’s needs and not their own. They might be in denial of their need for space and autonomy. Although some codependents seem needy, others act like they’re self-sufficient when it comes to needing help. They won’t reach out and have trouble receiving. They are in denial of their vulnerability and need for love and intimacy.

Jibberoo Tue 02-Jul-13 13:55:13

all valid points I must say. As for DS - I didn't mean DH being a good role model I meant everyone else in his life (I might be stubborn but im not stupid and I know DH isn't a good role model in the least). I'm not looking through rose tinted glasses at DS - he really is a kind, sensitive, caring, smart boy who is very focused on good behaviour (his own personality not through any action of ours). I appreciate how lucky I am to have him and that above all else I need to protect his innocent, kind heart.

As for co-dependency, I definitely don't react to DH words (couldn't care what he says really when he's in a mood) but i'll give you the point about wanting to help someone (don't think i'd ever give up on myself though as believe it or not looking out for DS and me is definitely my priority).
Stubbornly I will accept all your valid criticisms of my actions (and yes I do see that what I do enables DH) but I am not ready to give up yet.
I agree if we split it will be because of his choice to smoke dope not my fault bc I leave, but in the end we'll still have split up which is the part that I want to avoid if possible for DS, DH and me.

These boards don't always reflect the true nature of a relationship as lets face it we tend to focus on the stuff that's bothering us and not the good stuff. DH is a good partner for 80% of the time (its not that he's horrible 20% but I need to put a value to his dope smoking and add that to the moods somehow). I'm probably a pain to him for 20% of the time too. I'm not perfect either and i'm sure if he would be posting on a board about me he'd come up with loads of stuff that really annoy him.

All I really wanted to say to OP (as I didn't really mean to hijack her thread) is that I share her pain/frustration. Its up to her how she chooses to continue on her journey (as someone pointed out already) however she may benefit from hearing what someone else in a similar situation (but a bit further down the road) has been going through.

At this point all I know is that DH has to stop smoking dope and calm down if we are to have a long term future. Whether that will happen or not I cant say but I will keep trying until I no longer can

OxfordBags Tue 02-Jul-13 14:02:33

Jib, just out of interest, how come your DH gets to slam doors, yell, and behave appallingly, yet similar behaviour is clamped down on in your son? Do you not see the mindfuck for a child in that - his sense of normality and decency is being shaped negatively forever by living with a father like this, so he thinks that is an acceptable way to behave, and yet when he does it (a child who can barely control his own impulses), he is constrained and disciplined. He thinks Daddy's way is normal and right and you're not letting him do what he is being taught is normal for males. I read your posts justifying enabling your OH at the expense of your son and feel like pulling my hair out, I really do.

All the love and good parenting and role modelling from you and others is completely obscured and made irrelevant in the face of the effect of his father's appalling behaviour. No amount of good parenting can undo the damage done to a child nor prevent further damage from happening.

That goes for you too, OP.

OxfordBags Tue 02-Jul-13 14:05:50

Btw, also - to the OP and Jib: your efforts won't be perceived or remembered by your respective kids as a positive lesson in not giving up on people, they will form an unconscious belief that men can do whatever the fuck they want, treat people like shit and get away with it, whilst women have to tolerate it and take it.

EldritchCleavage Tue 02-Jul-13 14:06:38

he will totally blow his top when he perceives he has been slighted by others eg a surly waiter

There is every prospect this is a deep-seated character flaw made worse by weed, but not caused by it. So even if he did stop smoking, this behaviour could still be there.

Jib

You are stuck in the mires of co-dependency and the one who will ultimately be most hurt here by his parents dysfunctional marriage is your son. You cannot even begin to fully protect him from his dad and his associated weed smoking.

Your own poor boundaries re your H (again from being co-dependent) are causing you to make poor decisions; why can't you see this boat is sinking?.

PoppyField Tue 02-Jul-13 14:26:19

OxfordBags you are spot on about the relationships that children see. They won't remember the '80% great', they'll absorb all the messages of '20% dreadful' and the massive double standards manifested in that. Yes, they will see that men can behave like shit and women have not only to take responsibility for causing such behaviour (hence eggshells) but they have to take it as well and then make everything better on top. Awful.

The whole scenario makes me shudder and this kind of abuse is genuinely mind-bending - it bent mine out of shape for a long while and its clear that some posters on here have gone into that blur of confusion. I understand and have huge sympathy, but Jib and OP - please get all your strength together and see it for what it is - abuse. Then get as much RL support as you possibly can and get these abusive men out of your home.

I don't suppose my children will ever thank me for kicking their dad out - but I will always know that it would have been far worse if he had stayed living with us. I feel confident they will grow up confident, self-assured and with all the benefits of the good role-models of friends and family that surround us. I may never have another relationship - who knows? - but at least I won't have one where they see me being emotionally terrorised by the man who is supposed to love me as well as them. That is what is terrifying and confusing for children.

nenevomito Tue 02-Jul-13 15:35:19

Oh and the cannabis smoking is a complete red herring. Plenty of people smoke this stuff and, while it might turn them into tedious mong heads, it doesn't turn them into nasty, abusive, twats.

On that point I'd disagree. Yes, some people are tedious mong-heads but for others it affects their behaviour. I'd get "But even you say I'm nicer when I'm stoned" but that was because the moment he wasn't stoned he was a shit. Since DH stopped smoking he's not thrown furniture around, shouted and ranted at me or the children and, in short, has stopped being an utter dick head.

Now it may well be that for some folk their OH's will carry on being nasty even after they stopped smoking - in which case you have to deal with that then - but in some cases its the actual problem.

golfpro60 Tue 02-Jul-13 15:38:01

Puff daddy Its such a hard decition and depending on your own strength it's down to what you can and will put up with. It's a long process as you find yourself making so many excuses because u don't want to give up. We have been forced into this section by thier actions so it's very dinars especially when u have children. Maybe it takes leaving someone to make them see the error of thier ways and if not then what can we do!! Like people say above its not our problem and I for one can't take it anymore. I'm going to speak to him tonight and tell him, tried this
Morning but he kept telling me to go away and that he was busy!

PoppyField Tue 02-Jul-13 15:50:42

Meant to say good luck golfpro - it is such a hard decision esp when children are so young. It was the same for me and it made me feel that others would think I hadn't tried enough because my two were under 4 when I finally took action. But a) other people didn't have to live like I did and b)I did absolutely everything I could think of to make it work. Finally I realised the only thing that would stop him being vicious/unkind/undermining/callous to me was for him not to live with us. It takes a while to understand that is the only way to make it stop. He is still vicious, nasty, bitter etc, but it is not my life anymore.

Jibberoo Tue 02-Jul-13 15:54:36

Ladies I appreciate your advice I really do. Please dot take my responses as dismissing your valid points. What I tried to say before is that posts like this tend to provide a skewed perspective of a situation. There is no denying my dh is moody and can be an arse (don't get me started on the weed but he isn't allowed to smoke it in the house nor when ds is awake not that that makes his night smoking outside any better) but he is not abusive. I do not feel terrorised, I definitely dot walk on eggshells around him and very rarely does ds witness dhs moods (I'd say once every few months at most). When we argue its not around ds - it's either at work (we have our own business) or outside at night when ds is asleep. And even though dh starts it I am by no means covering from him and will pull him up on bad behaviour. I just want to make this point because I do see a difference between someone being and arse and a bully.
Yes even seeing it rarely is too much for ds and that's why I'm not saying ill never leave but right now I don't believe that that would be the best solution for everyone.
Not all women in a relationship with someone who has anger problems are abussed. Not all children seeing a parent get angry are scarred. Ds knows bad behaviour is bad but he also knows that if he is naughty or does something wrong he will be told off but I will still love him and forgive him. Maybe as he gets older this may change and if I ever see his behaviour changing for the worse I will need to make big changes to ensure he doesn't follow in dhs footsteps. But I have hope that our family can sort this out.
Finally, my parents are very different in their personality/reactions to situations (neither angry nor violent). I watched them deal with stress differently as a child and I have become just like one of them but not the other. Not sure what point I'm trying to make with that other than my ds' life isn't necessarily lost just bc his dad has anger issues.

JaceyBee Tue 02-Jul-13 16:10:49

Just wanted to clarify a few points. I run anger management courses for the NHS. They are based on CBT and teach skills such as using distraction, breathing/relaxation/mindfulness, checking in and monitoring anger throughout the day, cognitive restructuring etc. They also look at personal rules/core beliefs that make people more prone to anger - including unrelenting standards and entitlement schemas. There is also a big focus on assertive communication which is very important as often people with anger issues haven't learned how to get their needs met any other way, and think they are being assertive when they are in fact being aggressive.

What Ehric is describing sounds more like emotion regulation/DBT skills - which is aimed more at people with BPD. This is slightly different from anger management - I run both. So the answer to your question about whether it's available on the NHS is yes, depending on where you live.

Also, it is difficult to say how much impact his cannabis dependency has on his anger. Obviously the smart thing to do would be to quit for a month and see what happens - but he needs to want to do this for himself.

But the point someone made about MH services or counsellors not working with him if he was smoking weed is total rubbish - we don't exclude anyone for this reason. We support people to make the right choices for them, don't believe that he can't get help because of his weed smoking - that is unhelpful and incorrect.

Consider for a minute that you are wrong re your H and that he acts like this too because he can.

How many more years are you prepared to waste by trying to modify your DHs behaviour?. In the meantime your son is learning from the two of you as to how relationships are conducted. Trying to change one of your own behaviours is difficult enough, trying to change someone else's is impossible. You've already tried for five years and he's not listening to your entreaties or pleas. You feel like all co-dependents do in such situations - rejected. You want to fix this (another codependent trait) but surely you accept too that he has to put serious legwork in as well without any input in that process from you.

What you have tried to date has not worked because at heart he's not bothered about what you think or feel. He gets what he wants out of this relationship and is happy with the way things are/ You've become conditioned to hearing his emotional crap he metes out towards you along with his weed smoking, this is why you are not cowered by it, well on the surface anyway.

ageofgrandillusion Tue 02-Jul-13 16:31:45

Jibberoo - you seem to have backtracked furiously from your first post?
Babyheave - yes, weed does affect some people's behaviour. But IME, it is a bit like alcohol - ie, people who are loud, violent, nasty etc when pissed tend - in the main - to be that way inclined anyway.

AnyFucker Tue 02-Jul-13 17:14:08

It is very sad to see you backtracking, Jib sad

Lweji Tue 02-Jul-13 20:54:10

For what is worth, fully agreeing with those who say that you, Jib and Puff, cannot control your OHs, or help them get better.
Except by convincing them that they will lose their families if they don't sort themselves out.
And you may have to kick them out for them to believe.

golfpro60 Wed 03-Jul-13 10:43:03

Hi ladies. Sorry to hijack the post again puff but I keep having to rerelease this thread to give me the strength to leave. My head is telling me to leave, that I am married to a difficult moody person ( not violent at all just moody and says nasty things) and that I'm best off without and starting again. But my heart says no this is my husband, I need to support him through this and try and get him to stop smoking and see his actions are wrong. But I know that's not something I can do and it has to come from him. I feel terribly guilty leaving, I feel like I'm giving up on our little family but I don't know how to make it work. The thought of the divorce process and having to leave our home and move back to my original town where my family all seems like too much! Any words of wisdom for me??x

ageofgrandillusion Wed 03-Jul-13 12:00:27

All I would say golfpro is that life is very, very short. You could waste years of it trying to get this person to change - a task that you surely to god know will prove ultimately fruitless. Do you want to look back with bitterness in your old age when you are still stuck with a miserable fucker?

AnyFucker Wed 03-Jul-13 18:36:32

Do you still want to be in the same position one, five, ten years time from now, GP ?

If you don't force the issue, nothing is going to change.

How are you doing golfpro, what did you decide?

golfpro60 Sun 07-Jul-13 21:58:37

Finding it hard to leave. He's jekkle and Hyde. Half the man I loved and married and great with our child, next minute moody and petty over the littlest thing.

Fairenuff Sun 07-Jul-13 22:44:33

jib I am concerned to read this, posted by you:

very rarely does ds witness dhs moods (I'd say once every few months at most)

Just to put it into perspective, my dcs have never witnessed their father behave like you describe. Not in 16 years. It's not normal, it's not right and it will be damaging to your ds.

Please think again.

morethanpotatoprints Sun 07-Jul-13 22:51:17

Will pm you. x

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