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Update on EA

(866 Posts)
faulkernegger Wed 26-Jun-13 13:53:22

I posted some weeks ago about DP's suspicious friendship, and even though we have talked about it (I've said I feel uncomfortable, children have noticed etc) it's still going on.
He has been attentive and loving, and when I asked if we were ok he looked me in the eye and said 'yes'. However, a few evenings ago about 11pm he took his phone into the loo. When he came out I challenged him - why on earth do you need to take your phone into the loo at 11 o'clock at night? to which he replied - I had it in my pocket on the way upstairs. Well he didn't - it had been on the bedside table. So I said - you;re not telling me the truth and I want you to think about why you're not telling the truth.
A couple of days later he took me aside and said he'd made a decision to step back from this woman, because I clearly thought that 'something' was going on. I felt so relieved.
But, having a gnawing feeling still, I did some checking on his mobile phone bill online ( about the only thing he's forgotten to change his password for) and he seems to have called her more often and for longer, since that conversation!

What do I do now? confront again and ask exactly HOW this is stepping back? or, as my sister says, back off, be sweetness and light and give him more time to end it.
I have been for an initial assessment at Relate to see of there's anything I can do about 'me' that will help the relationship, but I feel there's no point if his mind is elsewhere.
Help!

AuntieStella Wed 26-Jun-13 13:59:01

I tend to agree with you - whether an affair is physical or emotional, I cannot see the point in attempting a reconciliation if it has not been broken off.

Individual counselling for you may well be helpful anyhow - not to try to fix things when he is not doing his part, but to explore your feelings and attitudes and work out what you want to do.

What sort of future do you want? Does he have any part in it?

waddlecakes Wed 26-Jun-13 13:59:31

Send her a text (she won't recognize your number) saying: ''I know.''

Then sit back and see what happens.

IAmNotAMindReader Wed 26-Jun-13 14:12:37

Unfortunately for you OP the only decision your husband seems to have taken is to hide his involvement with this woman from you. He may well try to justify this by using your suspicions as an excuse for driving him on further.
If he was serious he would apologise and realise he was being totally inappropriate not say he was doing it because of what you thought of it.

If he hasn't done so already he is moving into the next phase of making this a full blown affair. He is living in a fantasy land right now and only he can drag himself out of it. The only questions are how much damage will he do between now and then and will you still be there?

Only you can answer the latter, but bear in mind you can't save it if he won't do anything to help.

I agree with individual counselling for you to work out your own position. A lot of people who do give it another go end things a few months, years later because they were clinging to the relationship as it was, not how it had become after the infidelity and realise the relationship they have now isn't one they want to be in.

ChipsNEggs Wed 26-Jun-13 14:16:02

I'm sorry this is still going on. Sounds to be that it has got more serious and is possibly now a full blown affair. He is trying to cover his tracks.

You've already got proof of his lying to you. So are you just going to sit back and take it?

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Wed 26-Jun-13 14:16:27

Give him more time to end what, exactly? I disagree with your sister that he should have more time although I agree with her that there's an 'it'.

I think he's lying to you. I don't think that he's going to end 'it' with this woman. I think he's going to have a bloody good go at hiding 'it'

myroomisatip Wed 26-Jun-13 14:37:34

He is lying to you. He knows you are on to him, obviously, and is making more effort to fool you and carry on doing exactly as he pleases.

I would ask him to leave. Pack his bag!

myroom has it right.
He needs to understand you are NOT going to stand for this anymore.
Pack him a bag right now.
Send him a text and tell him it's in the front garden and he can collect it on his way to where ever he is going but it's certainly not back to you and your home.
Your sister (sorry) sounds like a really passive person and you should not listen to her.
So he's lying to you and probably cheating on you.
He is certainly emotionally cheating on you and probably physically by now and you should;
back off, be sweetness and light and give him more time to end it
No you should certainly NOT do this. That's just plain accepting it and letting him know you'll put up with it!
Get him out for now. Get yourself some head space and let him have a good hard think about life without you.
After a couple of weeks you can get together for a chat and see how that pans out.
Sorry you are still going through this.

piratecat Wed 26-Jun-13 15:26:26

is this the husband who teaches music?

something to do with a flan/pie. or am i wrong ( sorry if i am op)

faulkernegger Wed 26-Jun-13 15:37:12

Hi piratecat - yes it is. (asparagus tart).
Some more questions - bearing in mind I have children, I am unwilling to cause huge upheaval.
If he has feelings for this woman, he is probably hard for him to just put an end to it all. He said to me - what shall I tell her? and I said - the truth, and that if she is truly his friend she will understand. I'm not being soft, I was in a similar position myself about 20 yrs ago and I couldn't finish it and ended up leaving. Worst decision ever and I wish I'd been stronger.
Do I say that I know about the phone calls and texts and WHEN is he going to finish it?
Do I give it another few days because he may just be plucking up courage or trying to find the right words?
Do I back off and be distant, or loving (showing him how absolutely marvellous I am hmm?
Real, practical step by step help needed.

faulkernegger Wed 26-Jun-13 15:38:41

Do I contact the other person's H?

Sparklysilversequins Wed 26-Jun-13 16:20:53

Don't contact the other persons H.

Tell him to get out. This is completely unacceptable. He is having a relationship with someone else while married to you. Giving it time will only cement it further.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Wed 26-Jun-13 16:26:40

I would be very matter of act about it. Pick a moment where there's no chance for high drama or a scene. Somewhere mundane. Don't explain how you found out, don't bother inviting him to explain.

"You know that conversation we had the other day? Rather than me wait for you to come clean like I gave you the chance to, I'm now going to ask you to pack a bag and go away for a few days. We'll tell the children it's work or you need to be somewhere. Because this isn't working is it".

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Wed 26-Jun-13 16:26:59

Fact not act, sorry.

ChipsNEggs Wed 26-Jun-13 16:30:04

He is just going to keep hiding from you. Tell him you know he lied and then chuck him out. Recognising that he might lose you is the only way you're going to salvage this as talking isn't working. Throw him out and get your head together, he'll continue to take you for a mug otherwise.

garlicnutty Wed 26-Jun-13 16:39:26

I'm sorry to say I agree, Faulk. Please don't get into arguments or debates about how you know or what you know. You gave him the option to stop deceiving you; he chose to keep on lying. He seems incredibly sure you'll keep putting up with it - he's got to learn you're not obliged to!

I'm very cross with him. You sound so lovely, and he's really taking the piss.

Cocktailsorcakes Wed 26-Jun-13 16:52:19

Pack him a bag & tell him you need some space & time to think about what he has done. Insist he gives you this. Do not tell him you know he is still in contact with her. Do not tell him you can see his mobile bills. Use this time to think about how you want to deal with it.

You can tell DCs he is working away or helping a friend out by house sitting. Or (depending on their ages) tell them the truth, daddy got too friendly with Z and you both need time to think about your relationship. Kids aren't stupid and may respect your honesty at this time. Or not, they are your kids and you know them best.

Try not to engage with him while he is away about anything other than DCs.

Really think about you, what you want from your relationship and look honestly at whether he will be able to give you this. Individual councelling (& joint councelling if you feel he has earned it) can help with this.

You would not be human if you didn't check his mobile bill while he was away but if you do look at what you see properly. If he is in contact with her do not make excuses for it. He told you he would stop and he hasnt. Really look at what this means. If he hasn't contacted her do you think it's because he's stopped or because he doesn't need to as he can see her more freely now. Look at your response to what you find out.

And ask yourself if you think you can ever trust him again, do you really want to be checking his phone bills this time next year?

Much love, youre in a shitty place but facing up to it is the best way to get out of it.

AnyFucker Wed 26-Jun-13 16:58:04

I thought you were being played massively on your previous thread, and you still are

Your sister is a complete sap...don't follow her line of passivity

Tell him to leave. He is clearly telling you one thing and doing another and just like you were told repeatedly on your other thread he is doing it in plain sight

You crossed over the line from worried wife to mug some time ago, I am afraid. How can you look this cheating man in the eye, but more importantly how can you see a woman with any self respect at all when you look in the mirror ? confused

Xales Wed 26-Jun-13 17:54:40

He is taking his phone into the toilet and lying to you about it.

He looked you in the eye and said he is going to not contact this woman as much because you thought something was going on.

He is now contacting her more than ever.

There is something going on

He thinks you are a fucking idiot. He has no respect for you. He does not give a shit about how you are feeling.

The only thing of interest to him is the happiness he is getting from his contact with this other woman.

You need to stop being passive and giving him time to end it. End what? Your marriage?

Tell him plainly and bluntly enough is enough. Tell him you are not a fucking idiot. Tell him you deserve a lot better than the shit he is handing you. Tell him you have seen his mobile bill. If you find one more text, one more lie he is out. And mean it. If he blusters, accuses you of spying or changes the password get him out there and then.

You deserve better than this shitty treatment.

IAmNotAMindReader Wed 26-Jun-13 19:26:37

Look, your children already know there's something going on. What are you going to teach them about relationships? Take anything so long as it doesn't make waves?

You can behave with dignity and draw a line in the sand that says this is what I will not tolerate and mean it.

You can't save a marriage one person has already checked out of. You do need to let him know that when you entered the marriage you expected exclusivity and if he is not prepared to do that he needs to leave.

I honestly don't know how this will turn out for you. Maybe bringing him crashing back to reality by asking him to leave until he is ready to be honest about your relationship will bring him to his senses, maybe he will see it as carte blanche. However smiling passively and taking whatever he has to throw at you is disrespectful to you and believe me if your children were astute enough to know something wasn't right then you have done a good job teaching them personal respect, by lying down and accepting this you are undoing that work and telling them self respect means nothing.

Would you rather they learn to accept anything or that only honesty and mutual respect are acceptable in a relationship?

I'm not saying chuck him out but I am saying don't accept the status quo, let him know you are not prepared to sit smiling pleasantly by while he has a mid life crisis and if that is truly what he wants he needs to be the one to go be free.
He doesn't have to leave, he can go get counselling to find out what drew him to her, find a hobby any number of things.
You draw your line in the sand and its up to him whether he thinks its worth the risk of crossing it. All you need to do is decide what you will do if he does cross it.

MrsLion Sat 29-Jun-13 16:22:25

OP I saw your other thread too but didn't post then.
I'm sorry this is still going on.
You wanted some practical advice...

Firstly, do NOT do as your sister suggests. This is crap, weak and completely useless advice. 

Secondly, do NOT see this as a competition with the other woman where you try and 'win' his affections back by outdoing her. It's not going to work and it just 'rewards' his selfish, immature behaviour with you pampering and pandering over him.

What other posters say is absolutely right. To save your marriage you need to drastically change the status quo. There needs to be a very real, serious and detrimental consequence for him behaving like this. The most effective thing is to tell him to leave.

You need to understand that unless you make this stand, this will not stop.

I get the feeling you're scared he'll actually leave for good, that they'll get together and by throwing him out you'll push him closer to this woman.

Back yourself. He doesnt sound like he wants to lose you- he just wants to have his cake and eat it. 
You deserve more. 
You are his wife and mother of his children and you and the dc deserve to be number 1 in his life. This woman has no place to take this role and you have every right to put a stop to this.

Your best weapon on this is to make it very hard for him to continue to have his cake and eat it. He won't dislike you, or see her as 'nicer' and 'better' -he'll respect you and it will shock him into thinking he's actually got an enormous amount to lose.

Providing this is still at the EA stage, I also suspect that once this 'friendship' is suddenly the cause of a separation and therefore outside the innocent boundaries of oh but nothings's going on, we're both married! she'll withdraw very quickly from him.

loopylou6 Sat 29-Jun-13 16:37:22

Am I reading this right? You know he's lying to you, you highly suspect hes having an affair, but you want to 'wait till he ends it' confused

You're even willing to be more affectionate in the hope he decides to pick you?

I can assure you, I get no pleasure from saying this, but im gonna be brutal.

You need a MASSIVE dose of self respect.

Fairenuff Sat 29-Jun-13 20:38:38

Hi Faulk I was on your other thread. It's no surprise that this is carrying on, of course. On your other thread everyone told you to tell him to end all contact with this woman. You ignored that.

It sounds to me like you don't want to end the relationship. That you are willing to accept his cheating?

I also say pack him a bag and kick him out. It'll probably put an end to the affair anyway as she will be scared you will tell her Dh and drop him herself.
He's a lying toad. The increase in calls and messages is probably the pair of them trying to figure out how to keep it all going and be better about you and her Dh not knowing.

Mixxy Sun 30-Jun-13 05:16:45

I don't know how much more proof you really need. If you want to try to work things out with him, I would go the route suggested above by waddlecakes of texting her with just, "I know".

Otherwise, and the more sane, self-respecting option is to tell him to move out and don't look back. Doesn't your DD already suspect the affair? The lesson you are teaching her right now is that as a wife, you should be a
doormat.

I know this is tough but this is a mess of his making. He has refused to clean it up, so sweep him out on his arse.

I saw the last thread too faulkernegger, and like other posters, feel you are being far too passive, thereby enabling this EA to continue. If this EA given time to continue in its own good time it will have disastrous consequences for your family and the other family.

Every word MrsLion says is spot on.

I wish you the strength of heart to deal with this.

onefewernow Sun 30-Jun-13 11:28:46

Faulk, in this situation he will take your queue on how much he needs to respect you. All the infidelity books agree that even if you want him to stay, your only chance of success is to give him a big shock and chuck him out.

The turmoil which will result will force him to wake up and see what he is doing. He will either stop, or decide he prefers her. If the latter, he would have in the long run anyway. And it is critical to add to his discomfort and feeling of consequences that you do not hide your reasons from significant others eg family.

Xales is right.

Dozer Sun 30-Jun-13 11:37:24

sad

mummytime Sun 30-Jun-13 11:51:23

"bearing in mind I have children, I am unwilling to cause huge upheaval."

Is he thinking about the children whilst having this EA? No.

So if you keep being passive, he will one day decide he wants some other woman/family more than you/yours and will leave.
Or at his funeral your children will have to be dealing with the loss of a parents who was basically a selfish liar. Never mind the dreadful lessons they will have learnt about relationships from both of you.

BerylStreep Sun 30-Jun-13 11:51:35

I would suggest that you do not, under any circumstances, tell him how you know - he will just hide his tracks even further - such as getting an alternative mobile.

I'm with everyone else - boot his lying cheating arse out.

LillyGoLightly Sun 30-Jun-13 12:57:11

I am so sorry that you are going through this, I have been there too sad

From your posts it seems to me that the way you are feeling is that you want to confront him and pull him up on things but you dare not be to harsh about it in case it forces him to leave or into the arms of the other woman.

The crux of this for me is that ultimately you keep giving him the upper hand, and what I mean by this is your acting like your the one who has got so much to lose (and of course I know you have, and that you want to keep your family together) like your the one on the back foot and you are showing him all your weaknesses by behaving like this and he is just taking advantage by spinning you more lies and taking this EA deeper underground. He is the one that should be running around scared out of his mind that he is going to lose YOU, he is the one that should be feeling that HE is on the back foot, HE should be worrying about YOU not worrying about himself!!! For your own sanity you need to put a stop to this asap before your self respect and self esteem ebb away into nothing.

You need to start showing him the hard line here, you need to start showing him that HE is the one that has got so much to lose, you need to make it real in his mind that HE WILL lose you if he chooses to continue what he is doing. You need to command his respect and not wait for him to give it to you, you need command full disclosure on this affair and you need to command that it STOP RIGHT NOW! These are all things that you deserve!!! Show him that you will not accept anything less than love, respect and truth....because if he cant give you these things you relationship is doomed to fail at some point in the future anyway.

If I were you (having learned from bitter experience) in reality you do not need all the details or even proof that he is doing all the things you suspect. You have enough proof and lies told to you by him to know indeed what is going on, you do not need an admission from him to deduce that (although it is nice to get I understand) your a smart woman so stop letting him insult your intelligence by continuing to let him feed you lies upon more lies. I would tell him that you have simply had enough, had enough of all the lies, all the excuses and that you feel you are simply not getting the truth. I would tell him that you deserve more, that you and your children deserve more. I would say that you are not sure that he is the man you once knew and trusted and that until you get the whole truth that you want him to leave for a while so you can have some space to think about the kind of man he has become and if he is even worthy of your time and affections anymore.

Say it....and then stick to your guns....do not crumble. By making this totally and entirely real for him is the only way his is going to get a big slap of reality and truly realise what he is got at stake here and what he is losing. Once you get him to do this, then you have the position of power (crude as it may sound) but that is what you need in order to set the ground rules of your relationship continuing/repairing. He has to become really and truly sorry for what he has done in order for you to be able to move forward, and right now he is not sorry, he is only sorry he got caught out because all his doing in continuing to tell you lies and carrying on with his little affair....just what he wants!!! Its up to you to make him sorry, its up to you to make him see, make him understand what and wonderful woman (and you are a wonderful woman) and wonderful family he has to lose. Yes there is the possibility he wont wake up and yes there is the possibility that he chooses the other woman (its very unlikely trust me) but if that is the case than the stupid idiot of a man was not worth having anyway....because he was not worthy of you!!!

Sorry that was long, but I hope it helps.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Sun 30-Jun-13 13:43:38

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AnyFucker Sun 30-Jun-13 17:07:01

Any updates, OP ?

Please come back and tell us you have had the "mug" tattoo on your forehead lasered off and kicked this cheating scumbag right up the metaphorical jacksy

Why would you tell the ow dh? So that he can do what you're too afraid to, and tell them it's their marriage or their 'friendship'?

He's judged you well. He knows you won't leave him you have given him permission to do this, by showing him that there are no consequences to his actions. He can have his cake and eat it, why would he change? It's all looking pretty good for him, apart from the odd suspicious discussion, which he feels he's averted by bothering to at least try to hide his affair (having read the last thread, I understand they have been quite open about it) he's happy.
If you want change- you have to act. Talk is cheap, and his actions have spoken loudly since your last talk. Chuck him out.

Fairenuff Sun 30-Jun-13 18:26:56

It's interesting that you still consider this 'just' an ea. It's very likely that they are actually having sex. Would that make a difference to you? Would you still want him back? It's difficult to see exactly where your boundaries lie.

LesserOfTwoWeevils Sun 30-Jun-13 18:58:50

When did he change all his passwords? Have you asked him why he did it? Asked him to tell you what they are?

onefewernow Sun 30-Jun-13 20:04:58

He may have had passwords for ages. These sorts of men often do. It becomes normalised in the relationship.

OP I am not scoffing. My H and I played cat and mouse about his passwords for years. He was up to no good. You must do what it took me years to do, and insist on openness and no passwords. You do have a right, although I remember the guilt about insisting on it.

However, it's also true that where there's a will there's a way, what with incognito browsing and suchlike.

I bet he sneaks off a lot, doesn't he? Busy with work? Etc etc.

Fairenuff Wed 03-Jul-13 16:58:41

How's it going Faulk. It must be very hard to have to keep hearing the same responses from posters but you know, if we told you what you want to hear we would be doing you a massive disservice.

It's hard to hear that your dh is taking you for a fool. But that doesn't mean that you are a fool. You are starting to see this relationship for what it is and you are realising that it's not going to just go away.

It won't get better on it's own. Keep posting for support. Sometimes it takes time to really sink in. Hope you're ok.

faulkernegger Thu 11-Jul-13 22:36:28

Thanks for your support everyone. Massive showdown today, everything out in the open. Will keep you updated.

Hissy Thu 11-Jul-13 23:39:02

As crap as it is right now, having the truth will help you in the long run. Stay strong!

Be strong faulkernegger, stand up for yourself.

TiffanyAtBreakfast Fri 12-Jul-13 15:22:50

Thinking of you faulkernegger and hope you're okay.

Hope things are going in your favour Faulkernegger. Best wishes.

LaurenGB Fri 12-Jul-13 20:52:17

Hi Faulk. I am so sorry to hear that this is ongoing, but I must say I think it is a good thing that the release on the pressure cooker has gone. Its not healthy for you to be pandering to him whilst he is clearly not invested in your relationship anymore.

I hope you and the DC are looking after one another, and I really hope that the OH has left to give you time and space to digest whatever has come out from this.

Lauren xx

faulkernegger Sat 13-Jul-13 04:40:58

Hi everyone. Early days, and we're doing a lot of talking. He has told me a lot about their conversations and it's definitely an EA. It's ridiculous how many boxes have been ticked on the EA checklist. I know there is still more to find out, and I'm lurching between relief and anger. I wrote him a letter ( which kickstarted the reveal) saying I want us to move forward and he says he wants that too, so it's a start.
Here's another thought - he's obviously going to miss her - how do I deal with that? say 'tough - get over it'? or what?

PurpleRayne Sat 13-Jul-13 08:46:07

erm, shouldn't that be 'how does he deal with regaining my trust'? What I mean is, your focus is a bit screwed here...

I'd suggest you get some individual counselling (for you). It will help you get the clarity and balance you need to genuinely move forward.

So how do you know he's going to stop this time?

I think you need to access your anger- he has been having a relationship with another woman in front of you and your children. He didn't really give a shit did he?

I wouldn't welcome him back with open arms just yet.

faulk at some point you have to get angry about it. He is the one who has to deal with it, and show you he can be trusted, it's all on him to do the work as he screwed up big time.
You aren't the one to handle anything and can't help him get over her.

Xales Sat 13-Jul-13 18:49:50

So what is different this time?

He came and told you he was going to cut contact before as it was upsetting you. Next time you t urn around he is contacting her even more.

Good luck. Unfortunately I think you really need it sad

JollyGolightly Sat 13-Jul-13 19:14:03

Agree with the above. What about you; your feelings and thoughts? It's still all about him and what he wants, and you are allowing it to be. He really doesn't deserve this level of kindness and consideration from you.

FrequentFlyerRandomDent Sat 13-Jul-13 20:11:07

Oh I am sorry. flowers.

I am afraid that I do not see any mention of him leading the no contact, being sorry but active at getting your trust back, etc.

It is you writing letters, worrying, catching him with his phone. You do not have to deal with him missing her. He has to deal with his emotions. He seems child like at times in your posts. A bit like a kid who promised mum not to play with X, does it anyway and then tells mum something she will want to hear.

I do hope he starts realising what he is doing to your family and to you.

AnyFucker Sat 13-Jul-13 21:22:50

He won't realise until there are consequences

And there are none, so he will continue to take the piss. Op, don't sympathise when he pines for his girlfriend, will you ? or will you ?

BerylStreep Sat 13-Jul-13 23:11:50

I hope things work out for you, but you do know how it sounds? You are worried about him missing his mistress. That is screwed up.

faulkernegger Sat 13-Jul-13 23:24:22

Some misunderstanding here; when I say how will I deal with him missing her I mean, how the hell am I going to cope watching him pining for another woman? I certainly don't mean I'm going to feel sorry for him - he's brought it on himself. It's killing me knowing he has had intimate conversations and shared things with her that he should be sharing with me. He's built a wall with him and her on one side and me on the other and I'm so angry with him. That does not mean however that I am going to tell him to leave - I think that would make reconciliation even harder. BTW how does he get my trust back? anybody been through it and learned to trust again? I'm even suspicious now when he leaves the room. and tomorrow he's working away from home all day. (although the mate who is working with now knows the situation - I am starting to tell more people)

PurpleRayne Sat 13-Jul-13 23:47:02

Why do you think telling him to leave would make reconciliation even harder? What do you think the consequences would be?

ChipsNEggs Sat 13-Jul-13 23:54:59

Ask him to leave while you sort your head out. Been there and done that, the only effective solution is space for you and seeing what he is risking losing for him. Make it clear that you don't know if trust can be regained and he may have lost you forever.

What you can't do is worry that you are sending him to her. If that's who he goes to then she is more important to him and nothing you do will change that. You can't be better or more patient, you'll only drive yourself mad.

You have to stand up for you now. If he wants your trust and respect he needs to earn it the hard way. You've done nothing wrong.

Sending you strength and many unmumsnetty hugs.

SawofftheOW Sat 13-Jul-13 23:56:36

You can't trust him yet - there still seems to be no anger in your responses, just (and understandably) massive hurt. I very strongly sense that you place very little value on yourself and your own worth. Why is that - has he gradually diminished your so much in every sense that all you feel is fear at losing him, rather than righteous anger at his utterly outrageous and self-indulgent behaviour? I don't believe it's just an EA I'm afraid. These two have connived to get their story straight and they will continue to mock you behind your back because you are so lovely that you have been taken in by his and her lies. Shame on them and particular shame on your exploitative husband who gets lucky because he is married to a decent and loving woman who wants to see only the best in him! Please please find your inner anger and sense of self-preservation - believe me I have been exactly where you are and I rue my early responses to discovering my DH's 'EA'. I was fool enough to believe his protestations of it 'only' being that for six weeks, until he was compelled to tell me about their numerous sexual liaisons because her husband was going to do it otherwise. Get tough with her too - if she has a DH or DP tell him. She needs to get off your marital territory and your H needs to start building that wall between them. NO CONTACT is the only thing that will work to wean him off his addiction, because that is what it is. I get no indication he intends to observe that. Read Shirley Glass's 'Not Just Friends' (Amazon, Kindle) which is brilliant about how EAs develop and burgeon into full blown affairs. You MUST stop him now - he needs to know he will lose you if he doesn't end all contact with her now and fight for his marriage. Your niceness will be your marital destruction and even more misery. Time to stop appealing and start swearing - this arrogant selfish cruel man needs YOU to get your metaphorical balls out so he understands that it stops NOW. Not tomorrow, not next week. Now. Good luck - my heart goes out to you.

RinseAndRepeat Sun 14-Jul-13 00:46:46

Bit of tough love for you OP, but need to open your eyes to what's going on here.

I read your other thread and your DP has been having an EA in plain sight for some time. He probably justified it to himself because he kept it in plain sight and nothing physical had happened yet, so I'm sure he told himself he had nothing to be guilty about.

The bullshit about 'realising he was too close' and 'stepping back' screams to me that it's turned physical with this other woman and he's desperate to throw you off the scent.

He basically told you he was going to cut contact and continued to have a lot of contact with her in secret. He is telling bare faced lies to you. As a PP said, where are your boundaries? If I caught DP in a lie - especially about a woman he'd admitted having feelings for - he'd be out the fucking door.

The answer to your question about how to deal with him pining after another woman is: you don't have to fucking deal with it.

Ask him to leave and pine somewhere else. Have a modicum of self-respect, please. Your children can see what's going on, for God's sake; why can't you?

faulkernegger Sun 14-Jul-13 06:33:55

saw - woah - where do you get the stuff about conniving and mocking? - not from me (own agenda?)
rinse - he has now agreed to NC, hence his misery.
chips - thanks for the hugs, makes a change from being beaten about the head.

Op, I'm so sorry you feel got at - its nobody's intention. You do sound lovely, and that's why people are concerned that you are being taken advantage of.

You told him a number of times that you were unhappy with his contact - he agreed and then went on for more. I guess we are unclear what made this time so different.

As for the trust, I guess that honesty, transparency and time are needed.
You said there was 'more info to come' - you will need to get that out the way first.

Wishing you all the best.

Hissy Sun 14-Jul-13 08:12:03

The only way men learn is through loss.

You have to show him conséquences of what would happen IF he doesn't stop. As indeed he didn't.

His pining needs to happen somewhere else. He needs to do some long hard thinking, and you need space to think.

Telling him to leave for a while is actually the strongest weapon in thé potential réconciliation arsenal.

Letting him stay, so there are no awkward questions for him to answer is - to cheats like him - tantamount to letting him completely off the hook!

Please read the Shirley Glass book, please put yourself first, please get angry with him and take charge.

It's the only way you'll get him to respect you, and it'll do wonders for your self esteem.

No-one is here to batter you. I know you think that they'rre being hard on you, that's because you're scared of loss.

But in a way, you lost him already, the intimacy and trust. Only a shock to his system will force him to rethink.

You don't want the same cheating man back, you want one that's decent, respectful and knows that he WANTS to be with you. You want HIM to panic about losing YOU. The only way to shake all this up, is to get him to leave. For a while.

RinseAndRepeat Sun 14-Jul-13 09:07:18

Why do you believe he's gone no contact this time when he's lied about it before?

Will he agree to complete transparency with his phone and emails? Is he acting genuinely sorry and doing all he can to reassure you and try to rebuild your trust?

Before you even reply I'm pretty certain the answers to those questions is no.

You shouldn't have to do any of the running or any of the work here. He has lied to you. He has feelings for another woman and has acted on those feelings to the detriment of your relationship.

It's not your job to worry about how he's going to win your trust back. That's for him to worry about. Maybe he never will. Have you thought about what you'll do if it turns out he can't repair the damage he's done?

And it might be useful for you to have a think about where your boundaries are. His lying to you doesn't seem to have crossed any. Where's your line? Him sleeping with her?

faulkernegger Sun 14-Jul-13 09:10:59

rinse - he's crossed all sorts of lines, what makes you think I don't have any boundaries?

Hissy Sun 14-Jul-13 09:19:05

I think because you're not actually making him change anything, holding him to account and standing up for yourself to send him a message to say that you won't let him off, until he fully appreciates the stakes here.

I think if you view your 'limits' AS boundaries, then you can see how he's tap danced all over YOUR no-nos and he's got nothing in terms of conséquences for any of it.

You'd discipline à child, so they'd learn not to do it again, you have to do the same here. Simplistic, perhaps. Effective, definitely!

How do you know he is telling the truth this time op?

scallopsrgreat Sun 14-Jul-13 09:27:20

If he had crossed your boundaries OP he would be out on his ear.

RinseandRepeat is right. Where do you draw the line? What happens if your trust is never re-established? Are you happy to continue in a relationship without trust just so you can be with him? Because that is a horrible way to live and you could waste years in that miserable state.

RinseAndRepeat Sun 14-Jul-13 09:30:11

Because he's a proven liar who's still in the throes of an affair. But you're still on here asking how he can make you trust him again and how to deal with his pining over another woman. How bad does it have to be before you ask him to leave?

And I think you should ask him to leave btw. Until now he's just been spinning you lie after lie about how much time he's spending with her and how often he's contacting her. Every time he gets caught out in another lie he says he'll end it and then doesn't. He obviously doesn't care how you feel. He only cares about what you know. And as long as he thinks you think he's being a good boy, this will continue, I'm sure of it. You need to out your foot down.

During this whole thing you've been taking your lead from him. He's been dictating how this all plays out up until now. Take some control back. Don't take his word for anything.

You still haven't said why you believe him about the NC this time. When he's lied about it all the other times. What's different now? Sounds to me from what you've said like he still can't even acknowledge how completely
inappropriate his behaviour's been. That's not a good sign.

I'm not saying this to have a go at you. But you seem so passive in all of this. Just waiting to see what he'll come out with next and then going along with that. What do YOU want to happen?

Everyone on this thread is suggesting you make him leave. Not because we want to casually destroy a long term partnership. But because we can all see that the only chance you have of saving your relationship is to make him understand the consequences of his actions. Once he realises how much he has to lose and how in danger he is of really losing it, he'll probably shit himself and come to his senses. Then the real work can begin.

NoHank Sun 14-Jul-13 10:06:44

I never post on these threads, mainly because there are so many others who offer such great advice but I have read this and your previous threads and I agree with the others in that you seem so passive about the situation and there are no tangible consequences for his repeated disprespect of you and your family and the life you have and his continual lies and ongoing contact with the OW.

But the biggest thing I can't get my head around is why oh why would you WANT to be with a man that was visibly "pining for another woman" sad

Fairenuff Sun 14-Jul-13 12:00:30

Faulk you have come a long way since your first post. You have been very brave in confronting this because it's clear that you are terrified of losing him.

However, the irony of it is that if you want to stay in a relationship with this man, you have to ask him to leave.

He has to understand that he may lose you. That he has broken all your trust and lost any respect you had for him. He needs to realise that you might not even want to be with him anymore.

Only then, when he truly accepts that, through his own choices, his own actions, he has risked everything, will he make a proper and genuine commitment.

If he doesn't commit to you fully, openly, honestly and take full 100% responsibility for what he has done, there is no way that he can start to rebuild a relationship with you.

All this has to be done by him. It has to be his idea and he has to genuinely want to do this. There is nothing you can do because it's not your problem to fix.

Sure, you can make him show you his phone, you can make him go to relate, you can make him give you all his passwords, etc. But you making him is not him choosing for himself is it?

What about the music lessons, have they stopped? How does he behave when you talk about it, is he contrite and supportive or does he get fed up, defensive or try to minimise or shift the blame?

Tell him to leave whilst you have some time to think about what you want. Honestly, it will scare the life out of him. And if he runs to her then you have your answer and can start to move on.

If he doesn't then and only then is the time for you to consider rebuilding this relationship together.

SawofftheOW Sun 14-Jul-13 14:39:55

Faulk, I'm sorry if you thought I had an agenda. Believe me the only agenda is that of your lying H and his OW. What do you think he was talking to her and texting her about? The weather? Believe me these two will have got their story straight, just in case you ever confront her. I would surmise that his discussion with her after you asked him to go NC was how to let the dust settle a bit and you to become sufficiently trusting so they could resume where they left off. Like all of them he and she are working their own self-indulgent script - he is in affair bubble-world and everyone on here who advises you to ask him to leave are spot on that his behaviour towards you is contemptuous and contemptible. I wish that it were otherwise but his behaviour screams it out loud.

How are you doing op? Hope things looking clearer now...

FridaKarlov Mon 15-Jul-13 12:22:52

Hi, I posted on the AIBU thread before I saw these updates here.

I had an affair years ago which started as an EA and ended up physical. My partner actually caught us in the act which was just awful for him. Everything your partner did in terms of red flags, I pretty much did. I don't know why I thought my partner wouldn't know what was going on.

It was knowing what I was on the verge of losing that made me change my ways. Things were tough for the first 2 weeks after it all came out because I was still deluding myself that I could somehow have both of them and make my partner accept it (!!). In the end we had another showdown, he gave me the "it's him or me" ultimatum and I broke it off with the other man.

My other half forgave me and we're still together and very happy, but I still feel wracked with guilt about my behaviour and thinking about it makes me deeply ashamed.

In terms of your partner, Expect a wobble of some kind from him- he may try and kid himself that he and this woman really can be just friends or that he can be a bit more clandestine. Hold your ground, and make sure he knows that if he does not draw a line under it, you WILL end it and let everyone know why. Pay particular attention to what he does with his phone\ email.

The aftermath of my affair ended up strengthening my relationship, I hope that you will find a similar positive outcome.

faulkernegger Mon 15-Jul-13 12:30:59

Thanks Frida useful to get the other side's perspective.

LozzaCro Mon 15-Jul-13 12:58:32

Hi Faulk, I am so glad that you keep posting. Please bare in mind that some posters may be trying to move you forward before you are ready. It's not anyone aiming anything other than support at you, just that it may be coming across negatively because you are not ready to hear it.

In all honesty, he doesnt sound like he is making much of an effort for you. He has eventually ok'd NC? Surely he should have jumped at this and been more repentant? I honestly hope that this is just because we are only really getting a fraction of the relationship/story/whatever is going through your mind, and that you find peace from all of this. Wether this is with him or without him.

Lots of love and hand holding xx

faulkernegger Mon 15-Jul-13 13:49:39

Still posting. It gets a bit dull relating every little detail - so sorry you are getting edited highlights/lowlights.
Positives - he has agreed NC ( not yet had an answer about teaching Z's son - quote ' I KNEW you were going to say that!')
Also - doeswant us to move forward.
Is starting to see how upset I am by this
Is sorry
Has done a fantastic job of laying new floor in our sun room - redirection of energy!
Negatives - vile temper, resentment about lack of work and having to take less than ideal jobs, only making small talk unless I start a conversation.
It's a long haul.
I'm going to Relate on my own tomorrow - don't know whether to tell him.

FridaKarlov Mon 15-Jul-13 14:40:44

I don't want to pry but were you guys having a rough patch before this other woman appeared? My relationship had been having some quite problems and resentments for a while before I became infatuated with the other guy. Most of these problems ultimately stemmed from a lack of communication between us, and addiction (on my part).

FridaKarlov Mon 15-Jul-13 14:41:28

*quite big, sorry.

MNiscold Mon 15-Jul-13 14:48:10

He "agreed" no contact? Don't listen to what he says, watch what he does. He's "agreed" before... and what happened? As for teaching Z's son, that relationship will be affected by his relationship with the mother; he needs to stop teaching the child. The other points you make on this last post - vile temper, resentment, etc. not talking with you - He should be apologetic and helpful, grateful for another chance. If he's not hanging his head like a puppy that peed on the floor in front of you, then he's not actually taking it all in and reacting in the way that would keep your relationship alive. But hopefully the counselor will tell you this.... I do hope so.

I posted on your AIBU thread in the past.

His behaviour is not that of someone who has properly accepted that he was in the wrong. He is grumpy and rude to you when you are the person who has been wronged - he isn't the victim here.

He is not doing you a favour by backing off from this situation he is righting a wrong he has done. I think he should be a lot more contrite than he is.

Speak to Relate without saying anything to him about it yet because I think you need a bit of space to get your head clear. Personally, I would ask him to leave for a bit.

onefewernow Mon 15-Jul-13 15:11:50

Negatives - vile temper, resentment about lack of work and having to take less than ideal jobs, only making small talk unless I start a conversation.

He is behaving like this because he can get away with it.

He is resenting you like a child for daring to cross his wishes.

Even my H didnt do this, and he was one big liar during this time.

Not throwing him out- I admit - I didnt- prolonged the rebuilding phase quite badly. It took away my bargaining power, because he knew he wasnt taking much risk. Also, after three months and once the dust settled, all of the things I 'accepted' that he didnt do began to resurface in my mind as possibles/probables, but he would not admit them, and I had no leaver to ensure he did (if he was ever going to). This too prolonged the recovery, due to my own resentments.

If it were me, I would clarify in my head all of the things which deep down you want and need from him- and be demanding. Then ask him to leave on the basis that you assumed he would be able to offer thos things, and clearly he is not.

It is REALLY hard to get in touch with your real desires and expectations during this phase if you have fuzzy boundaries, which I think you do, and which I certainly did too.

Do please consider it seriously.

How fucking dare he make you out by implication to be asking him something unreasonable in eg refusing to teach her. And how dare he even hint at a temper- he is simply having a tantrum against mummy, who has ruined his fun with the sexy lady.

Im so sorry. It is so, so hard to do this well.

onefewernow Mon 15-Jul-13 15:12:56

lever!

LozzaCro Mon 15-Jul-13 17:43:10

I think - with the utmost respect - you are seeing positives, where at best they are middle ground. It is completely normal to do this, you do not want your relationship to end or in fact even contemplate it. So looking for positive behaviour and hope is going to be expected.

I think it will help for you to keep writing things down, allowing others to point things out for you, look at the situation in a new perspective.

Again, just at your own pace. I do believe that you will come through this. You are clearly a lovely trusting person, and just need some support right now. I am so sorry that your OH isn't providing this in spades for you right now xx

How are the DC's doing?

AgathaF Mon 15-Jul-13 17:56:43

He doesn't exactly sound full of remorse and eager to try to put things right.

He sounds resentful of you for spoiling his fun, like he's placating you with the bare minimum. How dare he ignore you until you speak to him. How dare he have a vile temper after what he has done. How dare he be anything less than full on trying to make things better for you as his partner and for both of you as a couple.

I suggest you do tell him about relate and suggest that he gets himself an appointment with a counsellor PDQ too.

He has a lot of rebuilding and repairing work to do. He doesn't appear to be doing any of it yet.

Xales Mon 15-Jul-13 18:03:31

Negatives - vile temper, resentment about lack of work and having to take less than ideal jobs, only making small talk unless I start a conversation.

In other words you have taken away his shiny new play thing. It is all your fault so he is taking it out on you.

He spectacularly fails to see that this is all his doing sad Until he realises what he has done this will never be fixed as in his opinion he has done nothing wrong.

Good luck.

Oh Faulk, this must be painful. So he's spent the weekend snapping at you, resenting you, and getting irritated with you? This doesn't sound like a man who is sorry.
And he's planning to carry on teaching at her house. This doesn't sound like no contact.
I would be furious by now- he seems to think he's doing you a favour!
Hope it goes well at relate tmrw- be strong

He's being a twat to you.

You write with love, understanding and sound lovely but he is being a git and does resent you spoiling his affair.

You and your dc's deserve better than he's currently offering.

Tell him to move out while you consider your feelings.

faulkernegger Mon 15-Jul-13 19:09:57

He apologised for being a grump this morning, has made me several smoothies, loaded the dishwasher, given hugs freely. It's not as black as you are all seeing it. Really.

faulkernegger Mon 15-Jul-13 19:10:52

And all the temper etc - guilt. I know it and he knows it.

He apologised for being a grump this morning, has made me several smoothies, loaded the dishwasher, given hugs freely. It's not as black as you are all seeing it. Really.

So what! they are house jobs that don't matter in the scheme of things.

You want-

Stop all contact, including tutoring her Son.
Open honesty and disclosure.

He isn't going to do these things that readily.

alistron1 Mon 15-Jul-13 19:25:32

His response in this situation (if he were sorry and regretted his actions) would be to be down on bended knee, promising to put you first and making an effort.

Throughout all this he hasn't done that and everything posters on here have suggested as to what his motives are/what he is doing have come to pass.

I get what you are saying/doing. I can see why you want to keep things going - but honestly, you sound so much better than this.

He has played you. If he could get away with it he still would be.

I wish you well for the future. I really hope things work out how you want them to.

I'm sure you're right Faulk, we aren't seeing it all - but if you read back your threads, even the start of this one you said how loving he is being. I hope he has changed this time and not blithely carrying on like last time- only time will tell I guess.

faulkernegger Mon 15-Jul-13 19:58:46

Quick question = all of you who have been through this - did your OHs all beg for forgiveness, promise to put you first, did total NC, and was this before or after you threw them out?

It sounds like you feel you've backed yourself into a corner with promises to move forward. That's not the case.

All you have to do is say, look I've been digesting what you told me over the last few days about how much you feel for her, about the money you spent on contacting her and the way you repeatedly lied to me, and kept secrets and I want some space to think what I want now. .. Because i dont want a half hearted love.

If he loves you and respects you, he will understand this.

FridaKarlov Mon 15-Jul-13 20:23:16

In my case OP I begged for forgiveness, but also, I confessed everything to my best friend who made me realise what a twat I had been and put things into perspective for me.it really helped to get the view from outside the whole sorry mess.

Hissy Mon 15-Jul-13 20:26:46

Before and after...

Also that NiceGuy stuff didn't last long either, when he realised I wasn't falling for it.

Thing is, the 'improvement' is only him hoovering you back in. It's being done cynically for as long as it takes till you crack.

The only chance you have of him ever changing is by NEVER cracking! Never letting up on him, and he has NO right to complain.

For me, after the tearful begging, the suicide hints, seeing his quickness to blame me somehow said it all.

I didn't let up, not even then. I said that it was over, that it'd never work again, as i'd constantly be reminded of all the crap stuff and hold him accountable somehow. I said that I felt that IF really reformed, he deserved a better chance, a clean slate, and actually so did I.

Time went on, a year or so. Purely functional conversation, passing him to DS, saying nothing to him at all.

A couple of months ago I got the most authentic apology i've ever had. I think he knew he'd lost me, and knew why.

Ok so all academic, as he's still thousands of miles away, but he really did seem to have 'got' it.

Either way, whether he has or not, is none of my concern really.

So stay firm, keep him GONE! Long run, you may be able to have a decent conversation with him, but that depends on him. Til then. Do your own thing!

Hissy Mon 15-Jul-13 20:28:58

But mine was abuse, not adultery.

Main thing is that HE has to fix this, or lose you. He has to see how that loss will be. In short he has to eat shit.

So hold your course, stay strong, determined and resolute.

ProphetOfDoom Mon 15-Jul-13 20:30:52

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FridaKarlov Mon 15-Jul-13 20:42:30

Oh, and it took him to say he was leaving if I didn't end the affair. He didn't demand NC and because of my addiction I was still involved on a social level with the Other Man- but it was really just friends after that point. OH wasn't happy but put up with it because he knew I was no longer keeping secrets. When I kicked my addiction for good I lost contact with the other man

Inertia Mon 15-Jul-13 20:53:46

Sorry to be brutal, but he doesn't sound like a man who is genuinely sorry for the damage he has done to his family and his marriage. He's sorry for himself because he doesn't get to lark around with his 'soulmate', and he's angry at you for puncturing his big romantic dream.

He looks and sounds like a man who realises he doesn't have anywhere else to go until OW is ready to leave her husband, so he's biding his time by keeping you just enough on edge to hope that things might get better He's showing you enough of a nice side to prevent you from kicking his arse out, and enough of a temper to keep you scared and in check.

So he's making you drinks, doing household chores, and giving hugs- like normal husbands and wives do every day. That isn't some great show of penance I'm afraid- he ought to be working a lot harder than that to repair his marriage.

BerylStreep Mon 15-Jul-13 20:55:28

If he is being grumpy about lack of work, he has only himself to blame. Having an affair with one of your pupil's mothers is hardly going to win you new work. (well, not respectable work).

Dozer Mon 15-Jul-13 21:12:02

It's often said on here that it's fine to change your mind about wanting to "move forward", to ask him for some space or even to move out. At any point you can take a break from him.

Really don't like the things on your other thread that he said about (and to) OW, them being "twins", time being wrong, would be different if not for DC. His lies. His ridiculing you about wanting him to stop visiting OW's house to teach her DC! He has betrayed you and your DC.

He seems to have got you in a position of fear, gratitude and weakness sad.

I was in similar situation once (no DC involved). Feeling insecure, unhappy, paranoid, him laughing at me, sometimes loving sometimes cold and critical. He eventually dumped me (blaming me and saying some nasty things) then a few weeks later wrote a letter, "as friends", mentioning how sad he was and that OW was "the only one who understands" hmm I was STILL not seeing it and hoping he'd come back until a friend read the letter, pointed out that it was clear he'd been having an EA if not full-blown affair and suggested when it might've begun (strangely, when our relationship started to be tricky) and a lightbulb went off. He eventually married the OW. The infidelity hurt a lot less than the period of confused rejection, and regret allowing him to treat me badly for so long.

Now of course there is MN!

Dozer Mon 15-Jul-13 21:15:43

Hang on, OW also lives with her H?!

Even worse.

Fairenuff Mon 15-Jul-13 22:02:31

Ok, things are a bit clearer now.

He hasn't gone no contact with her because he was clearly still intending to tutor her son and this would obviously give him the excuse he is looking for to see her again.

He hasn't stopped contact. He's just taking a break for now.

Or, at least we think he is taking a break, he may well still be contacting her somehow.

The other thing is, as someone said above, you should not be asking him to go no contact, he should be doing that himself. Because he wants to. Because he doesn't want to lose you.

All the housework in the world doesn't mean a thing. Those are all normal actions that a supportive partner does around the home. Making each other meals and cups of tea. Breakfast in bed now and again. Tidying, cleaning, decorating, childcare. That's what everyone does in an equal partnership.

There is only really one thing that you want - for him to stop contact with her for good and focus on rebuilding your trust. He is nowhere near doing that.

Tell him to leave until he knows what he wants. Tell him you don't want to be with someone who considers you second best.

StingingBee Mon 15-Jul-13 22:09:18

I haven’t posted here in ages but your post touched a nerve. It's my story, not yours I know, and I've dithered about posting but you've posted up thread that you'd like to hear from those who have been through it...

3 years ago my H started mentioning this OW and her H, they'd recently moved into our area, and they'd go into the local at the weekend where my H worked for treat money. He'd tell me tales and funny stories and how we must organise a get together, we all went out a few times, can't say I got it but H certainly enjoyed their company. Roll on another 6 months, H now has her phone no and the amount of texts between them are creeping up. I'm beginning to worry, but I don't know about what .. am not suspicious why should I be? I love him, he loves me, there is just this nagging... something?

Then helping the OW out starts...her H is out, she's just text could one of us go round and help with whatever...as your busy with DS(2) Stinging, I'll just nip over should I? OW sons bike has a puncture - “I'll go fix it Stinging, they're on their way out, can't ruin the day when I can sort it out" - nips back home, grabs his bike, " you don't mind if I go with them do you - I'll show OW the trail we use", I could go on but I'm sure you're seeing what I didn't. We had a dog, they'd just got a puppy - oh the amount of times they'd just bump into each other - usually told by DS (5) guess who we saw mummy!

8 months in and now I'm beginning to get fed-up, she has her own H for this kind of stuff..why is she constantly calling my H? why all of a sudden is he surgically attached to his phone.. what are they texting about all the time? I bring it up...of course I'm being ridiculous, he's being friendly, a friend, thats what friends do Stinging, help each other out". Only now its beginning to bite, because he wants to carry on being "a friend" and I want it to stop and because I'm trying to take the cookie jar away he's throwing a tantrum..Suddenly I'm moody, suddenly I'm a control freak, suddenly I'm dictating who he can and cannot be friends with. So I stopped..because actually deep down I was scared, scared of what might happen if I pushed too hard, for the first time ever, I don't think I'd come first. For another 2 months I put up with this gaslighting (thanks mumsnet!) questioning my judgement and ignoring my instinct, until our anniversary. Stupid thing really but I usually get a card with "To my darling Stinging" and then some heartfelt words..that year I got "To Stinging, Love H". and the night spent with him disappearing every so often with his phone. I broke down and demanded he show me his phone, he did eventually and of course the texts were to her..nothing incriminating but still..it was our anniversary and he spent it thinking about her, texting her.
We had it out the next day and he after telling me "she's the female version of me Stinging, she really gets me" hmm and me telling him he's destroying our marriage with his behaviour, he promises me he'll not contact her again. He texts her and tells her that their friendship is causing problems at home and that its best if he concentrates on his marriage. From that I get a lovely text from her, telling me what a super husband I have and how sorry she is if she’s inadvertently caused any upset and how much her H appreciates all my H has done for her recently! - Clever this because it made me think I was actually totally in the wrong and over reacting - her H obviously wasn't bothered like I was. But I stick to my guns and insist he does not contact her.

Only he does and I find out..similar to you in that he picked his phone up off the bedside table and took it to the loo with him. What I should of done here was tell him it was over, but I didn't -(scaredy cat again) and I wish I could go back in time and do that, just so he'd realise how serious I was about it, all that fannying around, I should have just said enough is enough. But I can't and here's where our stories differ....I ignored that one text and that one text turned into on average 2000 texts a month for the next 3 months and the time when we were concentrating on our marriage (well I thought we were) was the time it went physical, it had gone from friendship to affair in just over a year, played right out under my nose. By then I'd found Mumsnet and posted, (had some fab advice from AF (harsh but true!), Sternface and MAHC amongst others, I thank you again). Those 3 months were living hell and a whole other post (which I won't – this is long enough!)..The pub hours increased, the lies increased, he became distant, critical and withdrawn. I did not want to have confront what was now obvious, I had 2 children 5 & 2..little money and a H who was still insisting nothing was going on. I wanted to stay in my “happily married” bubble but the day came when I realised that no longer existed – it was god awful - I did what had been suggested here and asked him to go, I was heart-broken and scared (again!) but these wise posters on here are right - that’s what was needed to break his fantasy bubble, it really was only when he'd lost me that he realised just what he had to loose. He moved out for a couple of months, which gave me breathing space. I needed that, to get my thoughts together without a physical reminder day in day out. Seeing him at home on a daily basis would have made it much harder imvho.

We are working at it OP, more importantly He is working at it, it doesn't have to be the end. It's coming up 2 years now (Oct) from when I found out the truth and our relationship is good again...We have more transparency and talk about things much better. Although I do have the odd wobble, I trust him again, not 100% but I don't see that as a bad thing. I'm also stronger in myself and know that if I had too, I could cope on my own.

Actions have consequences I wish I'd made them count sooner, I may have been able to stop it before it almost destroyed our marriage.

And to answer your question..no nothing changed until I asked him to leave..I truely believe he needed to see that I meant every word..He was breaking not only my heart but me - that had to stop.

I wish you all the best OP, its a horrid time.

Ps. sorry that was so long – once I started I found it quite cathartic and I didn't want to stop.

AgathaF Mon 15-Jul-13 22:43:58

That was a great post about a horrible situation in your life Stinging. It's so easy to see from that post what could happen to faulk here, or in fact any of us.

faulkernegger Mon 15-Jul-13 22:49:15

stinging - glad to be of service, and thank you.
I don't think I've mentioned that I did contact OW'sH. I just asked him if he was happy with their friendship, and he said he was absolutely fine, he trusted her, he often saw her emails, they often mixed with people where the husbands and wives exchanged in banter etc. It didn't reassure me - I just thought he was a twat and blind, and didn't have a clue or care who his wife was contacting during the day. Of course he told her I'd called, it got back to DP who was cross; I just said 'what did you expect?' Don't know why I've said this now - I don't care what happens to them. My problem has gone up to bed, and I don't much feel like joining him. I guess it's early days - 5 days since showdown.
PS am reading Shirley Glass.

StingingBee Mon 15-Jul-13 22:57:12

Thank you Agatha - a tad too long perhaps blush (and that was an edited version)!

I dithered about posting because other posters say things much better than I can, its just faulks post took me back and I can remember feeling how she must be feeling and desperately wondering how the hell to make it right.

StingingBee Mon 15-Jul-13 23:09:05

Me too Faulk. Infact I actually printed out my H's phone bills for the last three months of contact -there really were 2000 texts a month - that works out at 1 text every 15 minutes for 15 hours if anyones interested! and showed him them. He just told me thats what she does - she's a texter! and laughed at me - I was gobsmacked at his stupidity tbh.
Oh how a laughed when it all came out - not.

I found Shirley Glass extremely helpful. Would your H read it or is he still in (deliberate) denial?

onefewernow Mon 15-Jul-13 23:28:30

If I had taken action and been less "nice " the first time I found evidence, it would have saved me five and a half years of lies and denial ( his and mine).

The one thing I regret most - about that and about post discovery, as posted above- is that I did not ckrify what my boundaries were, and judge him according to them.

Because my boundaries were shifting sand. And that us because my primary objective was wanting to be fair and nice and possibly approved of. I was raised to it, in some ways, even though I considered myself assertive and rebellious.

I was on fact good at asserting my boundaries but terrible at sticking to them. He knew this. I was far more caught up in being "fair"- but in reality, to him.

Just get in touch with your heart and what you want and need. Accept no less, in a situation like this.

Personally I think he won't believe you mean it unless you chuck him out. Also, it won't bring home to him what a risk he has taken, and may still take. Because he has nothing do far to lose.

ChipsNKetchup Mon 15-Jul-13 23:40:03

I'm sorry Faulk but it does not sound like he is taking it seriously at all. He can't go NC if he is still teaching her son, that's how this all started after all.

I don't think he has realised the enormity of what he is risking. I do think he genuinely believes that you're over reacting and it'll die down soon. That they're 'just' friends.

Go to counselling, I'd tell him you're going to relate but don't let him join you. Make sure you take lots of time for you.

Sending more hugs and I don't care who knows it! please shoot me if I start saying hun though

faulkernegger Tue 16-Jul-13 08:40:17

Thanks chips, and yes, I'll happily shoot anyone who calls me hun. Going to Relate this am. DP is out taking DS to school, going for a swim and taking car to garage, then out this pm for a gig. Can't stop the anxious feelings when he leaves the house.

BerylStreep Tue 16-Jul-13 09:52:15

Good luck this morning.

FridaKarlov Tue 16-Jul-13 10:52:35

Aye good luck.

captainmummy Tue 16-Jul-13 13:33:21

Hope you get some clarity at the counsellor faulk

Jan45 Tue 16-Jul-13 14:00:58

StingingBee, what an interesting and enthralling post, thanks for sharing that.

faulkernegger Tue 16-Jul-13 16:11:31

While I am still digesting the many thoughts that came up this am ( and waiting for the chance to act on some of them) - I need a good belly laugh. Any funny threads on MN today that have made you laugh out loud?

ChipsNKetchup Tue 16-Jul-13 20:14:46

I've been busy decluttering today so I've not been on much today so haven't seen any funnies. I did find a proper cringeworthy diary from my teens that'd been carefully hidden away. I don't know if I'm strong enough to reproduce any of my dreadful poetry for your amusement. I thought I was so profound but its bloody awful! [Blush]

Counselling can be very difficult but I hope you found it useful. If its got you thinking its probably a good thing even if it doesn't feel like it at first.

LisaMed Tue 16-Jul-13 20:17:21

I've nothing sensible to say, but wish you luck and this thread makes me laugh till I cry every time.

needasilverlining Wed 17-Jul-13 08:13:48

I found the one about having to choose two out of six children to attend a family wedding made me LOL on the train (MN Classics).

And, of course, the all-time winner 'cutted up pear' (If My Toddler could post in AIBU, or something - also Classics). Any good?

Hope things look up for you soon (and I concur with everyone who says he should feel bloody lucky to have you and be on bended knee begging you to keep him).

Fairenuff Wed 17-Jul-13 08:26:42

When you first posted faulk you were extremely reluctant to entertain the idea that this was anything more than 'just friends'. Even though your children could see it, you just didn't want to.

Now look at you. You have come so far and you are doing really well. Not only have you accepted that it is an emotional affair but you have also confronted him.

That is a lot for someone who just wanted the whole sorry mess to go away. You've taken your head out of the sand and started to deal with this. You are going to be alright. Whatever happens. You are stronger than you think you are.

Now you need to summon the energy for one more big push. Do not put up with any crap from him about this woman. Zero tolerance. Say it and mean it. We are all here to help and support you.

BerylStreep Wed 17-Jul-13 09:10:15

Interesting response from Z's H. It would seem this is normal behaviour from her, and his lack of interest may be one of the reasons she is doing this - sounds like he is not overly invested in the marriage, and for him to acknowledge that the contact is indeed unreasonable would be him having to acknowledge what his wife is behaving like.

It also sounds to me that you are being painted as the crazy possessive wife of that poor kind music teacher.

Don't let Z's H's dismissive attitude fool you - this is most certainly at least an emotional affair, and this level of contact and interest is not normal outside of a marriage.

You are not being unreasonable to expect that he backs away from this 'friendship'.

faulkernegger Wed 17-Jul-13 09:18:47

fair - thank you for the pat on the back. I'm feeling a whole lot better just for having stood up for myself!
beryl ( I love your name) - thank you - I have to keep reminding myself about the frequency and secrecy, which is most definitely not normal.

One hurdle today - it is the trumpet lesson at 4. DP seems determined to do it, but I am going to 'talk' to him about it when he returns from his gig after lunch. Wish me luck.

Apropos funny threads - the original spoonyfucker thread still has me in tears.

needasilverlining Wed 17-Jul-13 11:21:17

I hope the 'talk' takes place with an overnight bag for him in one hand, should he choose to go... Hope it goes OK.

Xales Wed 17-Jul-13 13:13:58

So he is determined to go to this woman's house to give her son his lessons while soft soaping you with a load of dishwasher and a few smoothies?

How is that no contact?

sad

RinseAndRepeat Wed 17-Jul-13 13:38:33

On what planet is continuing to give her son lessons 'no contact'?

He's taking the piss and treating you appallingly OP. So, so angry on your behalf.

I also wouldn't pay much attention to her H. You never know what goes on in other people's relationships. For all you know he might be at it too and it suits him to have a distracted wife.

Just concentrate on what's going on with you.

Still think you should ask him to leave. Give him a kick up the arse.

Inertia Wed 17-Jul-13 14:02:17

I would insist that , at the very least, the son's trumpet lesson takes place at your house and you will collect him from OW at the front door.

No contact does not mean the same as contact either side of trumpet lessons.

If only DH was as determined about saving your marriage as he is about taking every opportunity to nmeet up with OW...

captainmummy Wed 17-Jul-13 14:52:08

Yeah - no contact as long as he can still keep seeing her?

I'd be doing more than 'talking', faulk. He has yet to show any desire to do anything about anything.

ChipsNKetchup Wed 17-Jul-13 15:00:30

Hope the talk goes ok. Thinking of you.

Fairenuff Wed 17-Jul-13 17:09:54

Oh yes, time to get very, very angry. I would give him an absolute ultimatum now. No contact. NO contact whatsoever. Not even 'bumping into her on the street'.

Or he goes. It's time for him to get off the fence and commit one way or the other. Anything less is just insulting.

ProphetOfDoom Wed 17-Jul-13 18:12:59

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hissy Wed 17-Jul-13 18:46:38

I'm sorry, but Wtaf? You're PAYING this trollop to teach your SON?

Fuck that! Find a new teacher and let her go scrabble around for a new student!

Tbh, i'd demand a refund of the term's fees as compensation and perhaps it'd be a lesson to keep her priorities straight.

What's more, if the boy had to keep up the lessons, I'D be the one taking him, and i'd glare so hard at her it'd HURT.

Stop that now. You don't pay people to do this shit to your family!

Hissy Wed 17-Jul-13 18:51:29

Ah, the DS of this woman is your DP's pupil?

Fine. Lessons stop today.

She has to find a new teacher.

He loses money and a pupil, because he can't be trusted.

Consequences. He needs to see consequences.

You really DO have to get him to move out. He's not taking you at all seriously.

And he'll do it all again.

Cheats cheat.

captainmummy Thu 18-Jul-13 08:34:27

How did the 'talk' go, faulk?

faulkernegger Thu 18-Jul-13 08:59:17

Can't talk right now - things looking more positive. Laters.

fluffyraggies Thu 18-Jul-13 10:14:10

Just wanted to send you strength and best wishes faulk, and i hope things work out happily for you soon.

Have followed your thread from your first post in AIBU and would just like to say you sound amazing and your DH needs deserves a damn good kick up the arse.

If you don't mind me saying smile

faulkernegger Thu 18-Jul-13 14:05:01

fluffy - hello and thank you. I re-read that first thread through yesterday - it seems like forever ago.
Latest - The trumpet lesson yesterday should be the last one. He said he'd come straight back (and I had a time limit in mind if he didn't), and he rolled up as promised.
He has been super attentive, and with him actions speak louder than words, so I'm paying attention to that.
The Relate counsellor said now was a time to focus on what we wanted out of the relationship, and how we might achieve it, and I'm waiting for the next opportunity to start that process.
I've told him that I feel anxious when either of us is out of the house, and he has been at pains to tell me exactly where he's going and how long he'll be.
We're not out of the woods yet; It's been a long week since showdown, and I think I've been awake for every painful minute, so I'd like to thank you all for being there, and I'll keep you up- dated. flowers for you all!

BerylStreep Thu 18-Jul-13 15:10:49

Glad to hear you sounding more positive. Make sure or doesn't get twisted to you being anxious. He has destroyed your trust, and needs to take responsibility for that.

Did you ever get that book Not Just Friends? Could you get your H to read it too?

faulkernegger Thu 18-Jul-13 15:55:14

I have got the book * beryl* and am working my way through - it's extremely helpful. If I can get him to read it I will, but I'll have to do it in a way so that he doesn't think I'm trying to 'improve' him. So many times I've wanted to point to a paragraph and say 'this is you!'

Fairenuff Thu 18-Jul-13 16:15:48

I'm not so sure.

There is no way he should have gone to the lesson yesterday. You asked him not to but he just big fat went and did it anyway.

And you say actions speak louder than words?

OrmirianResurgam Thu 18-Jul-13 16:23:23

"Quick question = all of you who have been through this - did your OHs all beg for forgiveness, promise to put you first, did total NC, and was this before or after you threw them out?"

Yes. Apart from beg for forgiveness. He didn't dare! Wasn't the end of the trauma, just the beginning, but I was able to start the process. He is being vile and unreasonable. His pain is his problem. Yours is more important as HE caused it. I was very resistant to kicking H out but in your case maybe you need to. Sorry sad

OrmirianResurgam Thu 18-Jul-13 16:32:27

Garrghhhh! This is triggering me like mad.

Almost exactly a year since I found out. So sorry you are at this point faulk. Why are they so stupid and self-centred? Grrrr.

BerylStreep Thu 18-Jul-13 19:14:56

Orm I remember. Hope things are better now?

OrmirianResurgam Fri 19-Jul-13 11:14:35

Hi Beryl, mostly. Had a few months honeymoon period, H didn't really put a foot wrong and I can't fault him since the A, but I started to think about what he did during it and I think I went a little crazy. It can become obsessive and there is a point when, if you intend to reconcile, you have to let it go. I have, almost completely. I still get flashes of anger and resentment but they are few and far between.

captainmummy Fri 19-Jul-13 16:03:41

Orm - it must be so hard to put it behind you and move on together, if that 's what you both want. I have a friend who had an affair, her dh found out; they are still together. And seem back to normal. He has been so strong.

I don't know if i could do it. I don't think i could forgive. I don't think it would ever be the same.

Faulk, how are things now?

faulkernegger Fri 19-Jul-13 16:54:52

Hi captain - things are calm. Both of us making an effort.

faulkernegger Fri 19-Jul-13 17:01:11

Sorry, got interrupted by the phone. I'm still on a roller coaster of emotions, and lurch from sunny optimism to imagining life without DP. I'm also finding it difficult to concentrate - anyone else had this? I got screamed at yesterday by a woman in Tesco car park because I made a mistake, and it was only dd's presence that stopped me from bursting into tears.

onefewernow Fri 19-Jul-13 17:45:26

yes, it takes over your life at first.

I think the pattern for reconcilers- I am one- is that once the arguments stop, there can be a bit of a honeymoon period for 3 or 4 motnhs, as Orm says.

After that, though, the anger can return. This is because either they dont admit all, all it takes you that long to admit to yourself that you are not happy with the explanation they gave of the affair.

Or, they revert to the kind of selfish behaviour, bit by bit, which got them to an affair in the first place.

I had both, and it led to him leaving after a year, for a week, and realising he may not get back in. That returned us to Relate for a second stint, where the real work started.

The reason I am saying this is that if in your heart you arent happy with the explanation or actions at this stage, you can- may well- poke down those feelings as you think you have got as far as you can with the truth, or he is promising the earth for the future, which is a welcome distraction to the pain.

But believe me, it does return. So my view now would be to stay strong and get ALL of what you ant now- even if that does mean a temporary split- as it will come back to bite you in the bum if you dont.

mittensthekitten Fri 19-Jul-13 22:24:48

I'm glad the lessons have stopped. Does that mean that Z is out of your lives now for good? What is she saying to all this? Is your hubby very, very sorry about his behaviour?

BerylStreep Fri 19-Jul-13 23:36:09

Orm glad to hear things are looking up.

Faulk sorry to hijack.

faulkernegger Sun 21-Jul-13 10:32:25

We're in a weird limbo place atm - so much talking to do (not just about the A but about how we move on) and little opportunity; so everything is carrying on 'as normal' with this massive mastodon in the room!

RinseAndRepeat Sun 21-Jul-13 10:40:13

He needs to make time.

He's not being massively proactive about any of this is he? Beyond doing what ought to be expected of a decent partner anyway (hugs, cups of tea, etc).

Are you not starting to go off him a bit? He's coming across here like a very crap man. Surprised you still want to hang on to him so badly.

I think until he's genuinely ready to give up the affair and properly work on repairing the damage and winning your trust, you're going to be stuck in this limbo. Where you're doing all the work and it feels like trying to push water up a hill.

Never forget that all the effort should be coming from him.

ProphetOfDoom Sun 21-Jul-13 11:10:55

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tessa6 Sun 21-Jul-13 13:15:21

This is really dangerous territory, OP. It is exactly how affairs get swept under the carpet, because, in the moment, it is less painful for either party to just ignore it and restore 'normality'. But that normality is based on a sort of politeness and deception that cannot work indefinitely and will destroy one person's esteem whilst teaching the other that the consequences for their actions are almost zero. So it carries on.

When you are ready to face this I think you need to sit down and install some bottom lines and get the answers you need to move on. As it is, with the greatest respect, long term this is a recipe for disaster.

tessa6 Sun 21-Jul-13 13:17:09

Sorry, OP, I'm sure you know that already, and you must be kind to yourself. Just a gentle nudge to make sure you don't both stay in the denial stage too long. Whole lives have gone by that way. thinking of you.

faulkernegger Sun 21-Jul-13 21:11:44

we won't be in this stage for long - I'm just waiting for the opportunity. Appreciate the heads -up tho'

faulkernegger Mon 22-Jul-13 20:46:12

DP has gone out for a run with ds, so I took the opportunity to look at his phone again. There was an email from Z (OW) saying she wanted him to be ok and to find peace with his family, and to carry on being the warm, wonderful man that he so blatantly is. She relishes the friendship and that's why stepping back is so hard. Please would he carry on teaching her ds because ds has warm feelings to my dp and this is quite rare for him.

This was sent the day after showdown, and he hasn't deleted it. I've sent it to myself, but I can't find how to delete that sending! I wonder if he's left it for me to find, to 'prove' everything is above board, or that he can't bear to delete it himself.

BerylStreep Mon 22-Jul-13 21:05:45

Faulk I don't know what to say, but didn't want your post to go unanswered.

My gut feeling is that your P shouldn't continue to teach the son - not sure why - perhaps the whole idea of consequences etc.

It would be good if you could figure out how to delete the sent e-mail - is it an i-phone? Has agreed to complete transparency and openness, i.e. allowing you to check his phone?

Hissy Mon 22-Jul-13 21:16:35

No.

No more lessons. That's the deal.

ProphetOfDoom Mon 22-Jul-13 21:20:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SisterMonicaJoan Mon 22-Jul-13 21:27:31

Can you see if he has replied? I'm not familiar with i-phones and the like...

Agree, the lessons have to stop.

Sounds like she's clinging on and desperate to continue their EA and isn't above using her DS to get it. Her DS is not your or your DH's concern, he's hers.

She's not accepting that it's over.

Mixxy Mon 22-Jul-13 21:47:23

Do you think the email is a good thing or a bad thing from your point of view?

He must cease all contact, she is being cunning and selfish.

onefewernow Mon 22-Jul-13 23:53:03

She is hanging on. And he wants to, because the flattery is such a rush.

But where are you in all this? OP, he has to WANT you.

I feel so sorry for you ; this must be so painful.

Mixxy Tue 23-Jul-13 00:57:23

Check his sent mail?

faulkernegger Tue 23-Jul-13 07:17:13

Not much time atm - if he replied to the email he has deleted it, and IF she sent anymore they've gone too.

Mixxy Tue 23-Jul-13 07:32:24

Bit of head melt. How much more of these 'games' do you want to play? Obviously you value your marriage and this man dearly. You are a much more patient and understanding woman than I.

Is there not a trip to counselling on the cards very soon?

OrmirianResurgam Tue 23-Jul-13 12:29:25

No MORE LESSONS! She can go looking for a warm and compassionate friend elsewhere. Bloody cheek!

lazarusb Tue 23-Jul-13 16:40:35

She's playing a role - not asking/demanding anything but making sure he knows her door is always open. Using her child's relationship with him as an incentive to keep it going. She is being reasonable (in her eyes, probably his too) while you are not...they both sound manipulative and nasty tbh. No concern about you or your feelings at all.

Yes Lazarus has summed it up well.

I imagine your dp saved it so he could read again and again how wonderful he is.

So he didn't think of showing it to you on day 2 in the new spirit of honesty?

Hissy Tue 23-Jul-13 16:59:41

It's the manipulation that is so breathtaking! That DS has feelings so therefore he HAS to continue on giving the poor boy lessons.

Poor Kid, some Shrink's couch in the future will have a DS sized dent in it in future as he lists off her trail of conquests that she insisted he was inportant to..

I do hope your H realises that HE is in no way Special, that if she is this brazen, unfeeling and calculating to HIM, and consequently to HIS family, that she is clearly well practiced in this 'art of deception' and she is ruthless in getting HER needs met/ego flattered with no price (to be paid by others naturally) too high.

Ew. What a complete cow.

faulkernegger Tue 23-Jul-13 18:11:11

If anyone's interested - here's the email in full:
Hi
Just wanted to say that putting aside my feelings towards our friendship, I have an overwhelming feeling of wanting you to be ok.
You are so, SO lovely, and good, and clever and talented and kind and wonderful, and deserve to be the happy, warm soul that normally radiates so bloody blatantly from you!
I truly relish our friendship but understand about stepping back (despite being partly thrown together by unusual circumstances!) for the sake of you being able to achieve peace and happiness with your family (though please don't stop teaching **! I know he feels very warmly towards you and he doesn't naturally feel that to most grown-ups.)
I feel very lucky to have got to know you which also makes this bloody hard.
I want you to be ok.

Aaagghh!

Zx

I'm not surprised he wanted to keep this - who wouldn't want to be told this?
The sad thing is - I also think those things about him, but I used to say them back in the day when everything was new for us. sad
Am tempted to say them now, just to see his reaction! I won't - tired of stupid games.

captainmummy Tue 23-Jul-13 18:20:19

Wow! envy - vom!

so good and talented and kind and wonderful....she sounds a bit immature. I also would be tempted to slot a few of those gems into a argument conversation with him. Selfish, self-centred, self-aggrandising jerk to keeping it.

And i wouldn't delete the fact that i had a copy of it.

needasilverlining Tue 23-Jul-13 18:20:58

I think you deserve a gold medal for not having replied to this manipulative, self-serving crap.

No idea what best course of action is here, I'd be dying to:
1. Reply to her as you, with both barrels. Or better yet, as him.
2. Forward it to her husband.
3. Then delete it.
4. And read him the absolute fucking riot act.

But I am not one of the wise ladies of this thread so all of those prob wrong. I agree he's keeping it to read and re-read though, and I think he def shouldn't. How that's achieved I've no idea.

That email sounded really childish..

But he didn't show you it, did he?

He is not so lovely and good.

And my god, she is manipulative.

If he really has fallen for that - well we know he has - he's a right donkey.

As for the deserve to be happy ( but you clearly aren't now) - eurghhhh

crunchbag Tue 23-Jul-13 18:28:00

OMFG, that must have been heart breaking to read and to know that he kept it without a mention of it to you.

He isn't still considering teaching the son, is he?

ProphetOfDoom Tue 23-Jul-13 18:36:43

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Would you consider asking outright? Something like, so how did z react when you told her it was over?

lazarusb Tue 23-Jul-13 18:41:09

That's a love letter written by an emotionally immature person. All about her, him and her ds. She sounds like a princess locked away from her handsome prince in a tower. How anyone could write those words to someone in a relationship is beyond me, I can't believe it! There is no respect for you, or concern. The fact he kept it is interesting - it boosts his ego every time he reads it. They have set themselves up as some sort of forlorn, forbidden lovers. It's not romantic though, just cruel, manipulative and incredibly unpleasant. As euphemism said, the fact he didn't show you it is telling - it's his prize. A kiss at the end? She knew what she was doing when she did that. It's subtly framing and blaming you without coming out and saying it...and he's letting her.

fifi669 Tue 23-Jul-13 19:05:13

Only you know your relationship and if its worth saving.

Infidelity doesn't have to be the end, emotional or physical. However there can be no more lies. He's promised again there will be NC. If he breaks your trust again I don't think he's willing to do what it takes to save your marriage.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Hissy Tue 23-Jul-13 19:16:03

I agree Laz, it's the 'thrown together' bollock that has me!

Does that mean that I can hurl myself at everyone that comes into contact with MY DS then?

His music school teacher? His language teacher? What about thé holiday activity boys? Can they be on my target list?

I'd print that ffing email off, set it down in front of him, cross my arms and say one word. Beg for your life MoFo "Explain."

I'd get the ffing thing laminated take it to the relate counsellor and ask their take on why that email has been allowed to be sent, why is it not deleted and why H has not volunteered the information as a matter of full disclosure.

THEN i'd tell the shit to GTF out of MY home while I work out if I want a divorce or not.

Seriously, you need to show this man Every Other Weekend. You need to show him Child maintenance and see if that's the life he wants, cos pissing about damage limiting, simpering and sighing ain't going to happen anywhere near you!

LetsFaceTheMusicAndDance Tue 23-Jul-13 19:48:25

You need to show that email to her husband and pop their tawdry little affair bubble once and for all.

I can promise you your marriage won't survive and flourish if you don't address this.

She is pathetic!

I want to buy an Asparagus tart and splat her with it, silly bitch!

He won't dissolve the love affair judging by that email, sorry.

She's keeping him hanging on.

just wanted to say that putting aside my feelings towards our friendship, I have an overwhelming feeling of wanting you to be ok
You are so, SO lovely, and good, and clever and talented and kind and wonderful, and deserve to be the happy, warm soul that normally radiates so bloody blatantly from you!

Aren't you absolutely livid about this???

lazarusb Tue 23-Jul-13 21:02:05

Hissy I'm considering making a pass at the lollipop man. grin

I don't know which one of them is more stupid to be honest.

StingingBee Tue 23-Jul-13 23:13:13

This is dangerous territory - that email is sent from someone deep in the "fantasy" bubble to someone in equally as deep. This is the self-serving crap that they feed each other and they hang onto every word. She's a player and enjoying the game, she wants him to see how decent she is...thinking about his feelings, putting his well-being above their "friendship", while silently insinuating you're the cause of the fall-out...
This will run and run...Star crossed lovers and all that.

I'd be printing that out and showing her H...ask him to remind his wife who she is in fact married too, because you as the wife of the recipient of that message find it deeply hurtful and incredibly inappropriate.

Faulk, it must have been so painful for you to have seen that, it has my heart thumping on your behalf - its taken me right back. I know you don't know me and that this doesn't help but I'm so sorry you're having to go through this.

I wouldn't show it to the dh because if he doesn't react the way you would like (and he didn't last time) then dh and z will further feel that op is the only one with the problem.

Z couldn't have left the door open any wider, could she?

faulkernegger Wed 24-Jul-13 08:20:39

I won't be showing it to OWH because I am not interested in their relationship. I will be asking my DP what communication they've had, and see if he tells me the truth.
Many years ago I wrote something similar to an ex, and my motives were not honorable - I was saying the correct words, but I made it obvious what I really meant! So I know exactly what is going on here.
Strangely, my reaction when I read it wasn't shock, anger etc but more like "Ha! gotcha"

captainmummy Wed 24-Jul-13 08:27:47

Stinging is right - it is a fantasy, she is like a teenager with a crush. He's so so wonderful cheating on his wife emotionally angry

Now wonder he thinks she's his 'soulmate' if she tells him this stuff all the time!

And her ds is not your problem, not your dps. He'll live. What about your dc? How are they?

Longdistance Wed 24-Jul-13 08:47:12

No, pack his bags, dump them on her door step in front of the h, and say 'you can keep him'.

I'll go, as I'm infuriated on your behalf, and he's done a bloody good job of minimizing it for you.

Strangely, my reaction when I read it wasn't shock, anger etc but more like "Ha! gotcha"

That reaction sounds triumphant, what are you going to do now though?

faulkernegger Wed 24-Jul-13 10:39:26

Don't know what I'm going to do now. He's just gone out for a run. Avoiding a conversation I think. Checked his phone - he's changed the security code from dots to a number. He's also changed the password on his laptop - I used to be able to use it when kids were on the pc, even tho he'd locked his email. I'm going to follow him.
We're going on holiday in 2 days - I'm hoping that we'll have a wonderful time and he'll realise what he could be missing.

faulkernegger sad please take care, this doesn't sound good at all, I'm sorry.

faulkernegger Wed 24-Jul-13 11:15:16

Got in the car, drove round the block and got out again feeling a bit stupid. Now I'm just really really pissed off. REALLY REALLY PISSED OFF.

Mixxy Wed 24-Jul-13 11:19:14

This sounds awful. If your only plan is "I'm hoping that we'll have a wonderful time and he'll realise what he could be missing" than I think you are doomed.

Why should you be tap dancing for this (albeit) "so, SO lovely, and good, and clever and talented and kind and wonderful, and deserve to be the happy" guy?

onefewernow Wed 24-Jul-13 11:27:41

Faulk , you are still employing the same flawed strategy and as predicted he is taking advantage.

A sorry man doesn't change his passwords. You KNOW this.

He is going to continue to treat you like mother, and play cat and mouse.

Your only chance of sorting this out is to chuck him out, for the password changes alone. He had his chance; he blew it.

Don't even bother listening to his claims of innocence. It's all bollocks. He only changed those passwords at this time for one reason, and you know it.

This being nice and hoping he will choose you strategy is doomed to failure, as he is proving to you.

LetsFaceTheMusicAndDance Wed 24-Jul-13 11:28:41

I know you have 'Not Just Friends'. When are you going to make sure that he reads it? The changing of passwords is an enormous red flag - he clearly doesn't 'get it', does he? And until he does, you can turn yourself inside out trying to show him 'what he could be missing' but it won't work and somewhere along the line your self respect will be the casualty.

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Wed 24-Jul-13 11:31:26

namechange.
mixxy he is a lovely guy, but he's also human and therefore not perfect. I wish OW could see the grumps and the bad temper and self doubt. She has only been seeing the best of him ( as you always do at the start of a relationship). But I have loved him and his faults for nearly 14 years, as he has me, or so I thought. I'm too angry to write any more - I've deleted god knows how much.

Please don't spend the holiday being the one who does all of the work both emotionally and physically, I know you want the dc's to have a good time but maintain your self respect.

Will he put the effort in to show you you're the woman he wants?

I would also insist he leaves his phone and laptop behind.

LetsFaceTheMusicAndDance Wed 24-Jul-13 11:32:23

Sorry to be so blunt - especially as I know that some marriages can survive affairs and be better afterwards - but why are you staying with a man who is putting his own need for flattery/ego-stroking above your emotional safety and wellbeing? He really doesn't seem to give a stuff, does he? These are not the actions of a man who values you.

onefewernow Wed 24-Jul-13 11:38:06

It isn't, and getting him to read stuff won't help. It is enabling nonsense.

I spent ages trying to get my H to read stuff after his infidelity, and he would not. Even if he had, it would have been a sop to me.

They are only motivated by loss, shock and disaster at this stage of the game.

onefewernow Wed 24-Jul-13 11:39:14

Ps why the name change?

Mixxy Wed 24-Jul-13 11:45:34

We are all with fault. If you want the OW to see him with "the grumps and the bad temper and self doubt", please facilitate that exchange. Pack his bags, send him her way.

I know you love him, it is clear from everything you've posted.

How much do you love yourself?

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Wed 24-Jul-13 11:51:54

Ah mixxy. That touched a nerve. Bollocks.

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Wed 24-Jul-13 11:53:34

Just to remind everyone - the email was 12 days ago, and I think he's kept it because it was the last one.

Have you discussed the message with him?

onefewernow Wed 24-Jul-13 11:57:38

Sweetheart, he has changed his passwords. Why? And why now?

I can tell you from bitter experience he will make up some lie about that. But it won't be the reason.

Please try to surface your real understanding of the situation. I don't wish to be harsh- I was a bigger fool than you for five years. It made me I'll in the end. Don't go there.

lazarusb Wed 24-Jul-13 11:58:06

He should be working hard for you right now and he isn't. Changing passwords at this moment in time is so ....I can't even think of the word! He isn't being open or honest. While you are on holiday, every time he gets/receives a text your stomach will twist. I would bet money that he's hoping you'll behave on holiday and be good, so that when that gloss is there he can resume 'normal' relationships with her.

If he can't see who you are and how much you love him now, I doubt he ever will sad

lazarusb Wed 24-Jul-13 12:02:47

Sorry, I didn't write that very well blush I meant that you'll have a nice holiday and you'll come back, him thinking all is calm and you're ok and he'll be back to lessons, texts etc. as soon as possible.

Fwiw I'm glad you aren't going to show it to OW's h. He would read it as how lovely she is and how much she values your h as a teacher. Whatever reason he kept the message, he didn't tell you about it. He kept it because it makes him feel good.

newforest Wed 24-Jul-13 12:05:17

The only way he will see what he has to lose is if you take it away from him. I would never usually say this to anyone, but I really think you need to ask him to leave, as least for a whole to five you some space. He will only see what he has to lose once it has gone.

captainmummy Wed 24-Jul-13 12:28:16

It's hard, when you are supposed to be going on holiday. You won't enjoy it at all; you'll be tying yourself in knots trying to be everything he could want/need/desire. You'll be killing yourself every time his phone beeps. You'll be on eggshells, the whole time trying to make him see what he could be missing.

I know it's hard, but can you leave him at home? I know you'll still be unhappy and wondering what he's up to, but surely, surely it's better than that constant state of anxiety?

Go alone with the dc. Have as good a time as you can - and you will both get the space you need to think about what you (both) want

onefewernow Wed 24-Jul-13 12:35:31

That is what I thinking New. Teach him he isn't the only one with choices, and up your value to him. And to yourself at the same time.

I know so well how these crises go otherwise. You consider alternatives and they all seem like dead ends. You tell yourself you are not scared, it is just too impractical to chuck him out. The kids, the mortgage, work, family etc etc. you would need to move house, you would lose your garden, catastrophe would ensue. You would never find anyone else.

So you raise the issue carefully, he denies, you accept it as you want to believe him.

Then after the dust has settled, and probably some nice days or weeks, you start to acknowledge the suspicions are still there. Some new issue emerges eg changed passwords. Nagging doubts. You go round the route all over again. And so it goes on.

After a few months or years the final crisis comes and this time you don't ignore it. And only then, after that is over, do you see how unhappy you were for so long and didn't even see why. You have had periods of illness or drinking or misery. Putting up with endless selfishness you didn't sort.

And all the time they have had loads of fun and ego stroking.

That's how it goes.

fifi669 Wed 24-Jul-13 13:43:18

Time to make a stand. You caught him out before, now he's changed his passwords. Why? Because he doesn't want you to catch him out again.

I've posted a thread on here about how my ridiculously lovely DP and how I keep checking his phone. He lets me, but he has nothing to hide. If I discovered one day he'd locked it......

Before you can expect him to respect your relationship, you need to show him you respect yourself. 14 years is a long time to love someone I know. Try to imagine the next 14 of him treating you like this....

So he's changed his phone password and his computer password?

This clearly is a man desperate to win your trust back. sad

ProphetOfDoom Wed 24-Jul-13 13:49:23

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mittensthekitten Wed 24-Jul-13 14:30:09

If it was the last e-mail, why the password changes? If it was the last one, what could he possibly have to keep private?

Perhaps you're just reserved, but I haven't seen one post where you've said he's told you how horribly sorry he is, how he loves you more than anything, how he's devastated to have hurt you, how he really regrets his behaviour, how he'll never do anything like this again. Has he done any of these things?

The e-mail from Z is - of course - designed to make him think that he is not happy, that she loves him, and that it's all your fault. He's keeping it because he's thinking about those things.

Xales Wed 24-Jul-13 15:47:49

What reasons are there for him to change his passwords and locks?

What is your bottom line?

When have you finally had enough?

Didn't he go running with her without your knowledge?

He is going to spend the holiday with you and your DC pining for her, probably sneaking off and contacting her every single chance he gets.

Please don't do this to yourself you deserve so much better.

LetsFaceTheMusicAndDance Wed 24-Jul-13 19:00:33

Well put, Xales. How can it be a holiday when he's locked his texts and emails away from you. You can't trust him and he's pining for another woman who he thinks is his 'soul mate'. People can spout any old bullshit to get their own way. You really need to have a long hard look at what his actions have been.

Ezio Wed 24-Jul-13 21:23:30

Sorry, but he has no intention of stopping, if he was focused on you, keep things open, so hes proving himself,

By that stupid move, hes dig himself a shit pit.

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Mon 29-Jul-13 10:15:36

On hol now and dp working hard - and I'm noticing and appreciating. There was a suspicious moment when his phone beeper at 3.30am but it turned out to be Stephen Fry on Twitter. There have been no emails texts or calls received or made.

Hope your holiday is ok, how are you so sure he's not in touch with her?

AnyFucker Mon 29-Jul-13 11:18:36

have you asked him why he has changed all his passwords despite "working hard" to make you STFU so he can get back on with his little fantasy romance ?

if not, why not ?

it's quite a crucial piece of "evidence" that he is still lying to you, no matter how many smoothies he makes and how tenderly he rubs in the suntan lotion

Dozer Mon 29-Jul-13 16:46:28

Kick him out! The stepford wife, pretending everything is fine, show him how lovely you are route is a dangerous one.

Bleugh to OW's email about how amazing he is, their amazing connection and "unusual circumstances" (him being her child's music teacher hmm), him "deserving" to let his light shine (which his nasty wife is preventing).

Bet it's all still going on.

He sounds like he has a big, big ego that you and OW are both massaging. That email was all ego massaging. You refer to his "self-doubt". And seem scared to do anything other than pussyfoot around him. And grateful when he makes any kind of effort (ie not being grumpy or showing temper). sad

And WTF with changing passwords etc? Hardly full disclosure.

Has he even agreed not to teach OW's DS?

he isn't treating you with respect, and you're not demanding any.

Val007 Mon 29-Jul-13 18:09:00

The affair has now been consumated. They don't need to send too many texts and e-mails because it is on another level now. He is throwing dust in your eyes by been a 'good' boy on holiday so he can use the leverage later when you're back at home, so that he could meet her...

Listen to me, I was with a cheater. I put tracing programme on his computer, I confiscated his phone, I was snooping on him day and night. Did this stop him? Nooooo. Did this make me look like a crazy lunatic? Yeeeees! I am still dealing with the emotional consequences. I should have just showed him the door - there and then. No snooping, nothing.

So sorry for you, but really you should have nipped it in the bud there and then - when your first thread started. I am afraid it is too late now...

BerylStreep Mon 29-Jul-13 20:06:26

Val, perhaps a bit harsh?

Val007 Tue 30-Jul-13 07:51:26

Harsh will hurt for a shorter time, and sugar-coated might hurt for years. I know what I would choose... sad

AnyFucker Tue 30-Jul-13 08:07:53

Me too, Val

Buzzardbird Tue 30-Jul-13 09:03:02

Blimey, he is not really even pretending to try is he? Changing his passwords staf? He'd be changing his address if he was mine!

lazarusb Tue 30-Jul-13 13:44:51

You are at the stage I mentioned - agony when he gets a text or e-mail. Of course, no way to follow those up when they arrive now because of the password changes. He can do what he likes, can't he? Keep you sweet for a couple of weeks then back to square one. Has he told you about e-mail yet? I'm guessing not. Nor has he explained the new passwords I'm sure. Please value yourself more highly, you deserve him to at least fight for you - not placate you and keep you quiet.

lazarusb Tue 30-Jul-13 13:45:21

I can only imagine how the big 'goodbye' went at that last lesson.

PuggyMum Tue 30-Jul-13 15:25:51

No no no to Stephen Fry on twitter! I use twitter and you don't get alerts like that! Don't let him fool you op.

I'm sorry but I agree with others. You need to really toughen up.

PuggyMum Tue 30-Jul-13 15:31:57

And I follow Stephen Fry myself so just had a quick check. He tweeted at 22.02 on the 27th then nothing until 28th at 17.27. No 3.30am tweets that just your hubby got an alert for.....

OP is on holiday, perhaps the time difference caused the 3.30 am tweet?

Still, you are being too nice, all sweetness and light like your sister suggested. This isn't good for your self respect, it sounds like you're desperate to cling on to any good vibes he gives off.

Where's your self esteem, have you asked him about the changes he's made to the phone, what excuse did he come up with?

kezLOU1977 Tue 30-Jul-13 16:27:31

Oh come on and smell the coffee! What a load of bull crap!!! The best way to show your spouse, partner or whatever that you are a person to be trusted is to disable all your locks and passwords so that they can check on you whenever they want, not to lock and password all the modes of communication making it pretty obvious that something (god knows what but I have an idea) is going on! I have seen it all before and it'll only end in tears, yours if you keep this up. He needs to prove he's not still talking to her and letting you read his texts first and maybe answering some of his calls will put your mind at rest (if he is telling the truth of course) and it should be no skin off his nose.
Like I always say, if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to worry about.

PuggyMum Tue 30-Jul-13 16:35:37

Ah good point YouStay.... It was the tweet alert that riled me!

Jan45 Tue 30-Jul-13 16:38:44

The OW sounds about 16 years old. I know you think you want to keep a hold of him but all you are doing is allowing yourself to be continually hurt and humiliated - get him out, then you can think straight about if you actually really do still want him, I suspect you might be surprised to find out what you really think, at the moment you are in shock, man woman mode and will do anything to keep him, it's not real, it's desparation due to the situation he has put you in. Give yourself at least some time on your own or with family and friends so you can actually make a rational decision.

lazarusb Tue 30-Jul-13 16:59:19

I think what really worries me is that the OP always sounds so deflated...if there is any anger on her part I'm missing it. She just sounds as though she wants the status quo resumed as quickly and quietly as possible.

No matter what the cost. sad

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Thu 01-Aug-13 08:30:34

No, the status quo is unsatisfactory - that's what led to all this in the first place. I think so would prefer to pretend it hasn't happened. Yes, I am deflated. For the last 6 months I've been helping my sister through her marital crisis (much worse than mine) and I can't believe it's happening to me. Holiday has been good but not enough effort from dp imo. He's acting as if everything is normal. Can't talk because dc always nearby. He's just asked me if everything's ok because I'm sitting here quietly typing.

onefewernow Thu 01-Aug-13 08:52:20

I see you feel very sad, and I don't blame you.

Oh Faulk what a crap time sad

Has he explained why he changed the passwords? Does he really not get it?

Sorry it's being the holiday you didn't want sad.

He isn't making any effort, just wants to go back to how things were before you became aware.

Has he explained the change in passwords?

lazarusb Thu 01-Aug-13 10:11:43

I think when you get back you need to get someone to have the children for a few hours and then tell him he needs to go for a while. Just to give you a chance to think. Hopefully it will wake him up to what he stands to lose. He isn't addressing this the way he ought to be.

No wonder you are emotionally drained if you've been supporting your sister. But you do need and deserve some time for yourself too.

You sound so nice, I'd love to be able to tell him some home truths on your behalf. You sound far too good to lose. If he can't see that, he's an idiot.

Jan45 Thu 01-Aug-13 12:25:52

Unless you ask him to go (even for a few days) you are never going to see the picture clearly, not whilst he is in your face and thoughts every day - you want to hang on but you're hanging on to something that is no longer there - you can't just sweep it all under a carpet and pat his brow as he pines for the OW - you really will and are destroying your self esteem and self worth and for what - is he really that bloody amazing to have???

Be kind to you, not him, give yourself peace and space to decide what YOU want to do, it's all about him and his needs, poor wee soul, he does the worse thing possible and you're there lending a hand - seriously, get a grip!

RinseAndRepeat Thu 01-Aug-13 12:39:07

Him changing his passwords is a massive red flag. And an enormous 'fuck you' to you.

Can't understand why you're not furious OP.

onefewernow Thu 01-Aug-13 17:23:59

The thing is, OP, your mood and feelings on this holiday are indicative of how it will be if this is not bottomed out.

This not getting to the bottom of things just carries on and on, with nobody communicating openly and trust further eroded.

And if he is still in contact with her, you will be miserable and he won't need to be. Is it worth the silence?

ProphetOfDoom Thu 01-Aug-13 18:12:00

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

clam Thu 01-Aug-13 18:30:06

What would his response be if you were to ask him to tell you his new password? And why he's changed it?

BerylStreep Thu 01-Aug-13 18:34:42

BTW, is there a time difference which accounts for the Stephen Fry tweet in the middle of the night? Did you actually see it?

Has he been disappearing off on holiday on his own? Phone into the loo type thing?

captainmummy Mon 05-Aug-13 14:14:49

How's it going Faulk?

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Tue 06-Aug-13 13:55:19

Have avoided MN because of the LTB/kick him out-or-you're-a-pathetic-person vibes.
I'm doing it my way, thanks.
The holiday was lovely, no disappearing off to the loo etc, DP putting in a lot of effort.
Will up date you all as and when.

elle2404 Tue 06-Aug-13 14:16:18

OP you remind me so much of my ExH; if he wanted advice he could have asked 100 people who would say do "x" but he would keep asking till 1 person would say do "y".
Which is what he wanted to do in the first place so why ask......??

ProphetOfDoom Tue 06-Aug-13 14:50:21

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BerylStreep Tue 06-Aug-13 21:01:15

Glad you had a nice holiday, and I am pleased to hear your update.

Reddwarflover Thu 08-Aug-13 07:43:41

People just want to help op they get cross when to them the answer is staring you in the face but you choose to ignore it. A lot of women on here have gone through the same as you and just want to help you avoid being so hurt.
It's your life of course and its up to you what you do and how you handle it.
I hope things do work out the way you want them to but don't be prickly because the answer wasn't what you wanted to hear, it makes you sound incredibly ungrateful for all the time peeps have spent reading your post and trying to help you.

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Thu 08-Aug-13 22:35:49

red don't get me wrong- I am most grateful for all the help and advice. I haven't ignored it - I just don't think it's for me.
Anyway, the latest is that DH an I had another 'big' talk, mainly because DH is behaving as if nothing has happened. In fact,he said 'I thought we were back to normal'!!!
I asked about what contact he'd had with OW. There has been none, and he has now told me his passwords - a bit reluctant, but couldn't argue with 'what are you hiding then?'
Re future music lessons - he started to tell me that he was intending to continue lessons, and when I said that it seemed like an excuse to see OW he was very uncomfortable. I also said that I would feel unsafe if he did that, and that the child was not his responsibility, and that his need to teach the child seemed to be more important than his need to save our relationship. That hit home. He still tried to minimise the 'friendship' so I said - 'you got too close emotionally to another woman, you were secretive about it and you lied, that is not a normal friendship and you were heading for an affair.' Again that hit home.
I feel a lot better because I stood my ground and didn't get hoovered in.

Fairenuff Thu 08-Aug-13 23:02:01

Well done faulk. Just keep chipping away at it like that and hopefully you will make some progress.

Did he agree to stop the music lessons?

RinseAndRepeat Thu 08-Aug-13 23:17:07

Well done you!

Did you check stuff straight away after he gave you passwords? Ie, would he have had time to delete anything incriminating?

Also, did he mention anything about 'the email' from her?

Sounds like you're standing up for yourself and are having the conversation more on your terms, which is encouraging to hear.

Good, glad to hear that you're sounding more assertive.

So he agreed not to commit to any more lessons?

You are doing well op.

He does sound incredibly insensitive still. I think one day you might look at him and think - you twat-

He thought it was fine to change his passwords, and now he thinks it's fine to go back to lessons. He really needs guiding through this like a giant baby.

Keep strong, it sounds like you feel much more in control which is great.

ProphetOfDoom Fri 09-Aug-13 08:03:59

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Fri 09-Aug-13 08:34:23

Thanks all.

Yes, great to hear things are proceeding more on your terms now, re passwords and music lessons. Good on you Faulk.

Xales Fri 09-Aug-13 14:08:40

Glad you were firm and took no shit.

Unfortunately he is still minimising and still trying to have some form of 'innocent' contact.

Is he thick or deliberately trying it on?

lazarusb Fri 09-Aug-13 15:40:36

Good for you OP. Stay firm, you deserve it. He should be going totally no contact with her and that way he can begin to rebuild your trust. It does sound like he has a long way to go but I wish you all the best for your future.

AnyFucker Fri 09-Aug-13 18:09:37

Have the music lessons been vetoed or not ?

youvegotmail Sat 17-Aug-13 17:02:10

Glad to hear your update. Am going through something similar and agree with you it's not always easy to do what everyone tells you, even if you do know that it comes from a good/wise lpace. sad

I hope that your husband has agreed not to teach the child (don't think he could do otherwise based on what you said) and that hes not lying about the no contact.

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Wed 21-Aug-13 23:21:42

Hi all -it's been a while. Nothing much to report, except that I am pretty certain that there's been no contact ( I can't be totally certain, yet). DP hasn't said that the lessons will stop, but neither has he repeated that he wants them to continue. I'm not sure whether to push him now, or to wait and see what he does at the start of term. There is going to have to be some sort of communication with OW about the lessons - would I be reasonable to read the email/ text/ listen to conversation?
We are both making an effort with our relationship - more attentive/ listening etc and I am starting to feel safer. Off to in-laws for a few days soon.

Tortoiseonthehalfshell Thu 22-Aug-13 06:28:22

Absolutely, it's okay to say that you want to be involved in any conversation between the two of them.

So I take it that the lessons have currently stopped because it's holidays only?

ArtemisFoul Thu 22-Aug-13 06:28:38

Has he actually acknowledged that he has been seriously out of order and is he actively trying to reolve the damage done to your relationship?

Or has it all been swept under the carpet?

ProphetOfDoom Thu 22-Aug-13 07:16:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Thu 22-Aug-13 17:57:01

tortoise - I think he would have continued with the lessons throughout the holiday if he'd had the chance, and encouraged us all to 'get together'. Bleurgh.
Artemis - not in so many words, but his behaviour has changed quite a lot (in my/our favour)
Scmaltzing - I'm alert to the fact that he may be lying low. September will be a testing time because we go back to work/school and there'll be lots of time when we are not together.

ProphetOfDoom Thu 22-Aug-13 18:47:32

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

intheduskwiththelightbehindher

Good to hear you feel more at ease.

Just to ask, do you find you're deliberately making sure that you are doing menial jobs together; such as doing recycling, having a walk to the shop for the paper?

Not trying to poke you, just asking?

onefewernow Thu 22-Aug-13 21:53:36

But if you think he would have encouraged you to get together with his affairee after you knew, then what does that tell you?

Fairenuff Wed 28-Aug-13 10:29:34

DP hasn't said that the lessons will stop, but neither has he repeated that he wants them to continue.

Good grief, he won't even give you a crumb will he?

I'm not sure whether to push him now, or to wait and see what he does at the start of term. There is going to have to be some sort of communication with OW about the lessons - would I be reasonable to read the email/ text/ listen to conversation?

You don't get it faulk.

This man is cheating on you and you are not sure of your 'rights'?

He should be totally open and clear with you.

He should admit that he cheated and take 100% of the responsibility of it.

He should be going out of his way to show you that he wants to be with you.

He should be going out of his way to show you that you can trust him.

He hasn't done this because he does not want to. He wants to continue the lessons, continue to see her and continue with you in the background putting up with it.

Sorry, but his actions are not just talking, they are shouting loud and clear. This affair will continue.

ProphetOfDoom Thu 29-Aug-13 13:28:15

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

littlebunnyfriend Sat 31-Aug-13 16:14:52

How's it going Faulk?

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Mon 02-Sep-13 06:39:29

Hi all. I was hoping to say that everything was great; we've had a lovely summer, DP has been lovely, doing all the usual things, although he hasn't arranged any date nights for us or time together hmm.
This morning I'm up early to give my niece a lift to court (possible driving ban) and his phone was just there on the table, so I checked it.
Don't know whether he left it on purpose, but ta da! was a couple of messages from OW about her S music lesson. They've arranged it for Tues at 5pm. The time of the message was when he went out with his mate for a drink last night, (and now I'm wondering if that was an excuse to get out of the house) and I was in bed when he came back, so he hasn't had chance to tell me about the lesson. I'm going to wait and see if he does.
Am dreading the conversation.

Oh god, what a horrible find. Good on you for picking up on it tho.

Yep, I would wait to see if he mentions it- I should imagine he's not going to....

What do you think you'll do? He's never taken you seriously on this, has he?

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Mon 02-Sep-13 06:50:42

I don't really know what I'll do. In my head I have imagined the conversation going all sorts of ways, including the 'pack your bags' scenario. I guess he will take me seriously if I say that.
He has obviously ignored what I said at the beginning of the holiday. Bugger.
Got to go, will be back on here later today. sad

So sorry inthedusk

What a tit he is! sad

Xales Mon 02-Sep-13 08:37:39

What is your line?

How much deceit and shit are you willing to let this man throw at you?

You seem to have clearly spelt out how upset you are, got a pat on the head a meaningless platitudes then as soon as he thinks the dust is settled he is back sneaking and arranging while out of the house.

This man has zero respect for you or your family. You are right that you now have to step up and show you deserve better.

Loopytiles Mon 02-Sep-13 08:48:27

He has never agreed not to teach the boy. V disrespectful even if nothing else is going on.

AnyFucker Mon 02-Sep-13 08:49:55

This was a surprise to you ?

I don't understand. It is clear, and has been from the beginning, what was going to happen

You have buried your head in the sand. Are you going to continue doing that ? Sit at home on tues at 5pm, stfu as he tells you some lie about where he is going, and let it pass ?

He is a liar. He will continue to lie while you let him.

Doha Mon 02-Sep-13 09:02:51

When it boils down to it it is simply put--The boys music lessons or your marriage. It has to be one or the other.
If he chooses to continue to contact the OW in the guise of music lessons you have no choice but to tell him to pack his bags, It seems too much a coincidence that the arrangements were made when he was out the house.
Even if he volunteers the information about the lessons tomorrow he clearly has no respect for you and your relationship given that he knew it would be a deal breaker to continue them

Mojavewonderer Mon 02-Sep-13 10:04:18

Your biggest clue that he is a cunt was not agreeing to terminating the lessons!

lazarusb Mon 02-Sep-13 10:11:35

I think it's time that you stand your ground. As others have said, this was always going to be the outcome - he placates you on holiday but he considers it to be swept under the carpet and on he can merrily go. I wouldn't be waiting for him to tell me about the lesson. He has no respect for you, he doesn't care about how you feel or the pain he is continuing to cause. Neither does she but she isn't your problem.

Please don't let him take advantage of you - no more lessons/contact - it's pack his bags time imo.

MadAboutHotChoc Mon 02-Sep-13 10:24:32

Not another one taking the piss.

He clearly does not want to do the hard work required - why should he when you are letting him get his own way?

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Mon 02-Sep-13 13:25:51

madabout - you've hit the nail on the head - he doesn't want to do any real hard work to restore/improve our relationship, and I haven't wanted to have too many 'talks'. We just have to if we are going to go forward. Before then, I have to show him the line AGAIN, PROPERLY.

AnyFucker Mon 02-Sep-13 13:28:01

How are you going to do that, love ?

MadAboutHotChoc Mon 02-Sep-13 13:28:24

You can do it OP - making him feel loss is your only chance of saving the marriage.

Cailinsalach Mon 02-Sep-13 14:51:43

Oh Faulk. He is such a shit. He reminds me of my ex who continued to behave inappropriately with OW until he had crossed the line. That affair revolved around music too. They were in a band together. Late nights, intense emotions, alcohol. I asked.... told....demanded.....all pointless. He continued until I threw him out. He lied. Look everyone knows the story. We have all read the script. Apparently it was all my fault he had an affair. My fault. Who knew?
My advice is come down hard and tell him how critical his behavior is to your relationship. I wish I had done it sooner.

UnexpectedStepmum Mon 02-Sep-13 16:45:59

Im so sorry you're going through this OP. Please be strong and be clear with him that you won't accept the way he is behaving any more. You have been making all the running for the whole time, it takes two to save a marriage. Thinking of you.

lazarusb Mon 02-Sep-13 17:08:00

I agree that only loss will be his motivator. He still doesn't see think he's done anything wrong and he can't even begin to see you, your pain or what he is putting you through.

Please show him how much better you deserve, stop being passive and make sure he knows what he stands to throw away. Be strong, we're all behind you.

Loopytiles Mon 02-Sep-13 17:21:22

If you kick him out (hope you do!) to give him a shock he may well still not get it say it's you being paranoid, unreasonable, you are causing this not him, and so on.

Think from earlier posts that your family may be of the brush it under carpet/"he won't stray if you become a Stepford Wife" ilk. do you have other support in RL?

The time of smiling sweetly and hoping the EA dies off on its own has gone, is your sister still advising this way of thinking, if so ignore her!

You have to find your anger at him; for his failure to respect you and your dc's and his utter arrogance that he assumed you would forget his treatment of you in time, yet carry on smugly with that woman.

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Mon 02-Sep-13 18:05:05

ooh Loopy - you have no idea how close you are. My mum had a very close friendship with my godfather and my dad, by default, with my godmother. Growing up, it all seemed quite normal, and we never doubted we were loved by all of them. Looking back it seems terribly dysfunctional. My sister's marriage is on the rocks - her H is MLC and having an affair and living at home - she can't get rid of him, he refuses to leave until he's ready. She's a fan of The HeroSpouse school and standing for your marriage.
I've never had problems ending relationships before, but now I have my own home and children and this is the relationship I have, I thought, finally committed to.
We're not married, so 'D'P doesn't seem so committed atm.
Many strands there - had no time to speak to him yet.

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Mon 02-Sep-13 18:07:26

PS. Not much support in RL - had a couple of sessions with Relate on my own, but the counsellor wanted to focus on repairing the relationship, rather than the EA.

ProphetOfDoom Mon 02-Sep-13 20:38:54

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Doha Mon 02-Sep-13 20:52:35

Schmalzing it's tomorrow night at 5pm smile

ProphetOfDoom Mon 02-Sep-13 21:11:35

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

littlebunnyfriend Mon 02-Sep-13 21:26:06

Oh no no no! He CANNOT be allowed to do this to you.

Please, please don't let this man completely and utterly disrespect you. he has behaved BADLY - he has talked to another woman about how perfect they are, how they are like 'twins' and how if he'd met them younger... etc etc. This is awful, sickening behaviour - and now he thinks he can see this person again to give their child a music lesson?

If this lesson goes ahead he may as well spit on your marriage. Please let him know that he is making a choice here. sad

Loopytiles Mon 02-Sep-13 21:49:50

Sorry you don't have much support in RL. And sorry to hear that your sister is putting up with even worse. Hope you don't go down that road. Haven't heard of the "hero spouse" philosophy, but doesn't sound good!

Can understand it must be hard to think about all the big changes splitting up would entail. Maybe you could break it down a little, like getting info on where you'd live, finances? Research, which you may or may not need.

Beccaloolah Mon 02-Sep-13 21:50:44

THIS totally happened to me. I warned him about getting too close to a girl in office. He told me off for interfering in his friendships saying he could control the situation. 10months later I was reading their sexts in the middle of the night while on holiday.

He said he would end it, it was nothing, stupid explanations for sexts - stuff about her sharing her internet dating experiences.

He didn't end it. I found out it was still going on three months later. Conversations in the middle of the night! 200 texts plus a day.

I'm really sorry to say to you but he is definitely up to something. You cannot step back and leave this man to finish it on his own. He'll just carry on doing his own thing. You need to stand your ground and tell him it is totally unacceptable.

I went to Relate on my own - the ex (i finally binned him four months ago - he was also visiting prostitutes) told me I was the one at fault, i was poisonous and needed help all the while he was texting this girl (who i also have to work with). It helped a bit but ultimately you have to go together.

He needs to accept responsibility for it getting out of hand and end it.

Good luck and stay strong.

Beccaloolah Mon 02-Sep-13 21:51:34

Oh and agree with loopytiles - one step at a time about ending it. It's taken a while for me but in 11 days time I move out with my son and am free of the total sod.

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Tue 03-Sep-13 08:00:41

Thanks everyone.

Doha Tue 03-Sep-13 08:07:30

Hope you're ok intheduskwiththelightbehindher !!!!

UnexpectedStepmum Tue 03-Sep-13 09:19:31

Can't add much to the advice but just wanted to say I am thinking of you and willing you on!

onefewernow Tue 03-Sep-13 09:20:11

The problem with that Hero spouse stuff is that it is all about putting him first and ignoring your own needs. Also, in time relationships follow patterns. If a behaviour is tolerated, it becomes part of the "norm".

I don't actually even think it is fair on them, the cheater, to ignore your own needs.

I think that boundaries and consequences are a better way to go- see the Cloud and Thompson book.

lazarusb Tue 03-Sep-13 10:20:59

Agree with onefewernow Herospouse stuff is all about what a prize it is to just to have a man in your life, no matter how he behaves. It's about time females were encouraged to attach the huge value that they deserve as individuals to themselves and make it clear this kind of behaviour is unacceptable in exclusive relationships.

Good luck inthedusk.

littlebunnyfriend Tue 03-Sep-13 10:29:08

Is he going to do the lesson today, inthedusk?

Wellwobbly Tue 03-Sep-13 10:34:50

I don't actually even think it is fair on them, the cheater, to ignore your own needs.

Absolutely, well said. When you allow a situation, your lack of boundaries and assertion of self-worth are actually failing yourself, AND them.

I have learned that such the hard way, and am very sorry for it.

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Tue 03-Sep-13 13:02:02

Hi. Dp just popped out to the tip. He's been very busy today cleaning up the garage, still not mentioning the lesson. I'm waiting to see if he just goes out a bit earlier than he needs to for the next lesson, or if he 'happens' to mention it at the last minute. Either way, I shall be calling him on it.
I feel strangely detached from him atm. I am prepared to follow this through. Will let you know. Thanks all.
btw I do have a couple of people in RL to talk to, I just haven't yet. I don't really want people ringing and asking how I am or how 'things' are.

RockOn Tue 03-Sep-13 13:11:23

Good luck and stand your ground. You don't deserve to be treated this way, you're worth more.

Xales Tue 03-Sep-13 13:32:53

Really sorry you are going through this. It must be horrible and gut wrenching to sit there watching him do family domestic stuff knowing he has this sneaky disrespectful secret underneath it all.

Unfortunately your sister's be sweetness and your honest and open discussion approaches are really not working sad It would be wonderful if he had taken it on board.

JollyGolightly Tue 03-Sep-13 13:41:22

Inthedusk I've followed this from the start and it's good to hear some steel in your tone. You are completely in the right, he's completely in the wrong, and this has all been going on for too long. Hold your nerve!

pomdereplay Tue 03-Sep-13 13:48:50

Delurking just to wish you luck. I know from personal experience how difficult it can be when you love someone and see them as fundamentally a decent person only for them to do something to completely challenge that perception. It is possible to forgive and move forward, and I think you have done an absolutely admirable job so far. You've given him every chance to do better and earn your trust back, but he really hasn't tried very hard. The days ahead aren't likely to be easy, no matter what you decide, but I hope you are able to stay strong. Remember you have done nothing to deserve this treatment; you have been a steadfast and loving partner, you've given him such a lot of room to change already. Only you can decide when enough is enough. All the best.

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Tue 03-Sep-13 14:12:02

pom - exactly. DP IS a good person, but he's got it really wrong here.
Shirley Glass actually says "^good people in good marriages are having affairs^". Doesn't excuse him tho'.

Doha Tue 03-Sep-13 14:38:11

I think you have to follow through this time OP. I think he will Just leave early and say nothing. Will you. call him on it before no goes ? What will you say if he tells you beforehand ? Either way he has shown a blatant disregard for your feelings He does not think that you will finish this relationship But you know that you have to do To be homest the intemy to do the lesson would be the end for me

Doha Tue 03-Sep-13 14:39:43

Sorry for the typo errors can't really see phone keypad

littlebunnyfriend Tue 03-Sep-13 14:47:58

It makes my blood boil for you to think of him going about his business this morning with a sneaky secret that he knows will upset you. Out of the two (crap) options, I hope he chooses to tell you.

But more than anything I hope that you make it 100% clear that if he chooses teaching her child over the comfort of you, his partner, after the way he has behaved, he is making a very serious mistake. sad

I'm so sorry.

Umlauf Tue 03-Sep-13 14:59:53

I think he doesn't understand how serious it is, he thinks you have gotten over it by now. In your situation I'd tell him that it really is the music lessons or the relationship, and if he walks out of the door he can't walk back in, but you need to follow through otherwise he will do it again and again and again.
Good luck OP, I too hope he chooses to tell you.

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Tue 03-Sep-13 15:50:19

He sent me a text while he was out saying he was teaching 5-5.30 and then 6-6.30 . No names mentioned. He's back now.

littlebunnyfriend Tue 03-Sep-13 15:58:03

OMFG. sad

So he's sneaked and seen her behind your back then. Was it really worth it for a music lesson? He has just prioritised her and her kid over you.

That would be the last straw for me, I'm afraid.

Xales Tue 03-Sep-13 16:05:34

Pack his bag while he is out for the 6 - 6:30 lesson. Sorry I don't think anything else is going to work.

You can talk at him all you like he will just say yes, yes, sorry, look shocked and then do exactly what he wants with no care for your feelings at all.

I don't believe you have any other option apart from to put up and shut up and let them carry on until they reach the inevitable conclusion.

Take care inthedusk sad

needasilverlining Tue 03-Sep-13 16:44:15

inthedusk, sorry for asking this but is there definitely a 6pm lesson?

Either way, I wouldn't give him the chance. I'd meet him at the door when he deigns to roll in with a packed bag and his marching orders. He needs to get scared of losing you if he's going to put any real effort into making this right - IF you decide you want him.

I'm so sorry, this must be gutting.

Loopytiles Tue 03-Sep-13 17:05:15

Whose house is it you live in inthedusk? Does it belong (or have rental agreement) to you, DP or joint?

Must have been very hard to say nothing knowing his plans today.

I wonder if he really has the earlier lesson or is actually going to OW ("just catching up")and saying there's an earlier lesson to get himself more time.

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Tue 03-Sep-13 17:23:35

Have just a long post but forgot to sign in and lost it. Short version - he told me where he was going just before he went out of the door. He knows I'm not happy about it, and will be expecting a talk. he said 'it's half an hour and then I'm going to x, alright?'
I said ' no, it's not alright, I need time to process this and we'll talk about it later'
I feel sick.

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Tue 03-Sep-13 17:24:30

loopy we own the house together.

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 03-Sep-13 17:27:15

Pack his things in a bin bag and have it ready for him.

He is still taking the piss.

Re the Shirley Glass quote, a good man after being caught cheating would NOT have continued to disrespect his betrayed spouse/partner.

Ezio Tue 03-Sep-13 17:32:50

He is never gonna change, anyone who wanted their marriage that much what do whatever it takes to save it.

How much more shit are you willing to take?

Loopytiles Tue 03-Sep-13 17:33:12

If you can't currently bear to LTB, could wait until you have some time alone with him, no DC around, then read him the riot act!

I have friends who teach music privately, it's really not hard to get new pupils, or a big deal for DC when teachers move on, no good reason to do what he's doing other than denial of any problem and wanting to please OW.

Ezio Tue 03-Sep-13 17:33:18

Also you really want this lesson to be one that your DD learns.

Doha Tue 03-Sep-13 17:36:04

I agree have his bags packed. You must follow through with this. He has ignored everything that you have said. He thinks all is forgiven. He will come back defensive and it will be all about you being unreasonable.
You told him the dealbreaker for your relationship and he has ignored it, even as late as tonight as he was leaving-knowing you were not happy HE STILL WENT.
He is shitting all over you from a great height.

Xales Tue 03-Sep-13 17:38:55

^ he said 'it's half an hour and then I'm going to x, alright?'^

There you have exactly how much he cares about how much this upsets and hurts you sad

newforest Tue 03-Sep-13 17:45:02

There are no words.

I am livid on your behalf.

ProphetOfDoom Tue 03-Sep-13 17:55:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SawofftheOW Tue 03-Sep-13 17:58:17

I'm afraid I don't have your astonishing grace and self-control. I would have been round her house like a shot about 10 minutes after he was due to arrive there. I simply can't believe this man's arrogance and rhino-hide - either he doesn't give a shit, not one atom of feeling about you and his DC, or he simply is so emotionally detached that he is unable to comprehend the depth of your hurt and anger.

I suspect the ONLY thing now he will understand is the bin bag on the steps route. It's so so hard to do that I know but I think you are now at the no-choice stage. He needs the world's biggest arse-kick. What a disgustingly selfish, self-absorbed man.

So, so sorry.

AnyFucker Tue 03-Sep-13 17:58:42

There is nothign more to say, is there

here is a signpost with 2 directions to go in

1) accept you are in a marriage where you have no say whatsoever in where the boundaries lie and you are forced to sit and watch as your husband forms relationships with other women (this won't be the last)

2) draw the line, end it and see if it makes any difference at all to the affair bubble your partner is currently in

AnyFucker Tue 03-Sep-13 17:59:08

sorry, partner,not husband

NightScentedStock Tue 03-Sep-13 18:14:28

I am livid on your behalf too, and also like others have said think it's time to put a bag with his belongings by the front door.

Thinking of you

RockOn Tue 03-Sep-13 18:15:44

He's not going to stop this without drastic action on your part. He doesn't give a shit about how you feel, her and her son are higher up his priority list than you and your children. Do you really want to live like that?

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Tue 03-Sep-13 18:21:30

Just to re-iterate. This has been an emotional affair, not a physical one (this is why he's so sure he's done nothing wrong). And I am absolutely sure he has had no contact for the last 5/6 weeks of the school holiday. Nevertheless ......

AnyFucker Tue 03-Sep-13 18:30:29

I didn't refer to it as a physical affair. Do you think it will stay as an "emotional" one though if you keep turning a blind eye to it ?

Charbon Tue 03-Sep-13 18:34:52

I'm afraid you've got no proof that this affair isn't physical, but in any case it doesn't really matter in terms of the impact on him, on you and on your relationship. The act of having sex is fairly incidental to the desire to have it and the emotional attachments that have been formed here are very strong. Those forces combined have wreaked enough damage as it is.

I saw your threads in earlier summer and think I posted on one of them at least.

All along, your partner has manipulated what he knows about you.

That you're uncomfortable with snooping, are conflict-avoidant and have been trained within your family to turn a blind eye to situations that are threatening.

Your passivity throughout has shown him that you are too frightened to act and he is abusing that fear.

I hope your anger comes through and you will find the courage to deliver the only blow that will bring about change now: loss.

SawofftheOW Tue 03-Sep-13 18:34:54

An EA is just as threatening and the step over the Rubicon to physical infidelity is just one touch away. An EA with this woman means she is inside your relationship with your DP, not outside where she properly should be - he is telling her things, sharing thoughts, dreams and aspirations with her that he should be sharing with you, and only you. I have NO DOUBT he will have been less than kind about you to her. I have NO DOUBT that she will have empathised with his 'pain' and 'disappointment' about his relationship with you, whether that is real or conjured up to justify his confiding in her.
Tell him to get out. He has to understand that this is totally unacceptable and you will no longer stand for it. His behaviour defies belief.

RockOn Tue 03-Sep-13 18:37:38

You keep minimising it and saying he is a good person. He's not acting like a good person right now he's acting like a selfish twat.

Will you still turn a blind eye when he does start shagging her?

AllThatGlistens Tue 03-Sep-13 18:47:04

Oh god sad

I hope, I truly hope that you can open up to the realisation that an emotional affair is no better to a physical one.

He's completely disrespecting you, and is choosing another woman and her child's happiness over your own.

Please, please see this, don't minimise the disgusting way he is treating you. sad

Jux Tue 03-Sep-13 18:57:30

Oh faulks, so sorry he is still being dishonest.

lazarusb Tue 03-Sep-13 19:07:27

It really doesn't matter whether it's emotional or physical. He has invested more than he should in this woman and caused you repeated hurt. Talking isn't ever going to make a difference if he doesn't feel he's crossed a line. He'll just keep on with this.

If he flat out told you he was in love with her would that be what it took to kick him out? He obviously feels enough for her that he can't walk away after 6 weeks no contact.

It matters not a jot whether it's turned into a sexual thing.

You've told him of your discomfort and he knows how your child spoke about his feelings towards this woman , yet he thinks he can carry on, his attitude beggars belief!!

You need to don your hard hat, make a decision in your head about what you want and tell him where the land lies. If he shoulder shrugs and rolls his eyes then tell him to sleep on her sofa and not come back.

You are worth more than this treatment, yoknow it.

Squitten Tue 03-Sep-13 19:51:45

Just read all of this.

Wow. He is pure brass isn't he?

I think your perspective on this is all wrong OP. I'm afraid you haven't shown him any lines. HE, on the other hand, has just drawn a MASSIVE line right in front of you. He is going to continue those lessons, and see the OW, whether you like it or not.

Not really many places to go after that. I have to agree with AF in that he is presenting you with a very stark choice: put up and shut up or do something about it. He thinks you don't have the guts for the latter, which history so far suggests might be true.

I sincerely hope you can realise that you are worth more than some man's second thought.

ProphetOfDoom Tue 03-Sep-13 20:15:32

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

littlebunnyfriend Tue 03-Sep-13 20:53:18

You asked him not to continue the lessons. She asked him to continue the lessons. He is choosing to keep HER happy, not you.

Please believe that you are worth more than this. You are worthy of respect, especially in the face of his previous bad behaviour.

SpottyDottie Tue 03-Sep-13 21:30:43

How can you stay so cool when the emotional attachment he seems to have with her is so strong??

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Tue 03-Sep-13 21:56:33

Just had the talk. had to wait for the kids to go to bed which was agonising.
I asked him why he had taught the boy tonight.
DP:I told you I was starting this week
me: that's not the reason
DP: he deserves to be taught
me: no he doesn't, he's just an 11 yr old boy
DP: Ow asked me to and I said I would
me: and I asked you not to and you have completely ignored my feelings.
DP; no I haven't
( this is when I lost it)
I can't remember absolutely all the words, but I had to remind him that he and OW had got too close, he had lied to me, been secretive, he obviously had feelings for her, put up a wall, that his friendship with her was a real threat to us etcetc - all the things I've said on here and that I've said to him before.
me; and now 6 weeks on you want to carry on going to her house and teaching her son?
DP: I can do it, I just go in for 30 mins and leave
me: but you are in her house, you still see her, what did you talk about, how can you go back to being Mr xxx and Mrs xxxx?
DP: I can do it, I can do it.
Me: well I can't. If you choose to continue teaching him, I can't put up with it, I deserve better, think about what you have got to lose.
DP: are you kicking me out
Me: no, but I don't know what is going to happen to us if you teach him again. I won't put up with it.

- that's the short version. He didn't see the best of me, but it felt good to let fly for a change - should have done it more often before.
He's gone for a swim now, having told me he loves me. I felt tearful for about 5 minutes, and am weirdly calm, probably because I'm processing my thoughts on here.

UnexpectedStepmum Tue 03-Sep-13 22:02:03

Wow Faulk you rock! Well done for standing up for yourself and your relationship. Hang on to that anger, and to the empowerment you have accessed. Rooting for you!

Xales Tue 03-Sep-13 22:03:55

A relationship crisis where is wife is as close to kicking him out as she has ever been in her life and He's gone for a swim now, having told me he loves me. hmm did he take his phone?

littlebunnyfriend Tue 03-Sep-13 22:05:36

I'm so so glad that you finally stood up to him. His arrogance is breathtaking. And 'he deserves to be taught' - WTAF - why is an 11 year old boy more important than you now?!?

Now stay strong, please. xxxx