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I don't want a huge blow up with H over this, so need opinions please

(358 Posts)
Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 11:28:06

I don't know where to start really. This is long, sorry, I am just so confused at the moment.

Been with dh for 2 1/2 years, married for just over 1. We got together quite fast as I was having a terrible relationship breakdown with exh, so we moved in together after only 6 months. I had been married 12 years but living separate lives for 10 of them. I have a 10 year old child from that marriage.

I don't work, but I study full time. DH works, but in a job he hates, he did a stupid uni course as a mature student at 25, graduated shortly after we moved in together and couldn't find the mystical job that he hankered after (the route he took isn't a route into them anyway iyswim). So now he has a boring, normal job -- and is not a rock star like he spent his early 20s thinking he'd be, this is apparently, my fault as now he has responsibilities --

I was a sahm during my first marriage, my ex worked abroad during the week and we lived in rural scotland, so I kind of had to be! I married young too, so never had much work experience, aside from a bit of freelance stuff pre 20, so when I left, I was floundering.

Last sept I started college and I have totally found myself. I have studied a subject I love, so much so that I have excelled and done a couple of further courses myself and at my own expense to further my knowledge.

However, I am at a crossroads at the moment where in order to continue I can do a degree. My father and ex always told me I was thick. My father said I was so stupid that there was no point in staying at school post 16, and my ex was very successful and talked down to me always. Since studying, I know that's not true. I have passed with all distinctions, my tutors have been behind me all the way and are pushing me to skip a level and go to a degree.

Ok so two issues!

1) I study hard. Really, really hard, not only with the course I have been doing, but with the additional courses I have taken on. I have a criminal law level 3 qualification to complete over the summer, it is not easy. But yet, because I am in the house more, doing 'nothing' (!) as he says, all house work falls to me. He does not lift a finger. He will 'help' wash up a couple of times a week, but he lets me firmly know he is 'helping' me and expects full on, falling to my knees gratitude.

I make him breakfast in bed every morning, regardless of if I am leaving half an hour earlier than him to get to college, I run his bath, wash his hair. All this for an easy life or he sulks. I am not well today and stressed. So I didn't get out of bed before him as usual. He usually has to start getting dressed at 7.50, by 7.30 he was already huffing as I hadn't got up to get his breakfast and coffee. 7.40 ds comes in with his cereal - a 10 year old puts him to shame lol - so I get up, feed the cats and stupidly make his breakfast as I couldn't face a strop. He could tell I was upset, so asks why (but not in a concerned way, he gets pissed off at me when I am upset) so I tell him, just for once, I am fed up of the morning waitress service. So then he says, well, I wan't hungry anyway and throws a strop that he won't be able to drink his coffee, it will be too hot.

He has his dinner cooked and ready for when he walks through the door as well, regardless of if I am eating or not. My first husband was a shit, but he never, ever expected anyone to cook and clean up after him, so I have never experienced this before. Is this normal? I feel like a housekeeper, I hate it. I know he works, but really, to do nothing in your own home? when I talk to him, he says to tell him what needs doing and he will. But a) He is not a teenager and I am not his mother b) this is his home too, I am not the boss of cleaning and c) he gets in such a mood if I do ask him to do anything. He'll do it, but it's not worth the sulking afterwards.

When I talk to him about it, he gets angry and tells me to stop acting like I have a hard life.

2) With regard to study, I have been offered an amazing chance to do a degree I will love. But I will have to commit to three years, hard wok with pretty full on work placements. We want another child. I have had several MC, so I can't wait any longer, certainly not 3 or 4 years, I am 34. So I am looking into OU degrees as they will be more compatible.

DH isnt happy about any of this. He says he will support me, but this week keeps throwing hissy fits, about how much he hates his job, how it's not fair and I can't complain as at least I am doing something I want to do. It's not my fault that, by his own admission, he did a degree which would basically buy him 3 more years 'free' drinking time' in his mid 20's. It is also not my fault that I have turned out to be more intelligent than people thought I was.

And I know that if I do OU, I will get the 'I got to work!' card thrown at me and I will be doing all the house, studying and looking after a baby on my own.

I am confused and I don't know what to do for the best, or, if I want to stay with him at all at the moment.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 11:28:45

Christ, that was long I am sorry.

An fwiw, if I read that, I would ask what I was getting out of the relationship, or say LTB.

oinkment Wed 26-Jun-13 11:34:31

I think you have answered your own question there.

So, how are you going to do it? What's the plan?

Sparklysilversequins Wed 26-Jun-13 11:38:40

I feel very sad reading that sad. You have basically given over your life to someone else to live for you. It's not one but your fault though, just so you know. You were conditioned by your arsehole of a father.

Do NOT have another child with this man. You have a good few years of fertility left. Don't worry about that for now.

Get on that degree course. It is your route out of this life and will enable you to support yourself and your child. Put on blinkers to everything except your dd. BTW NEVER let her take him his breakfast again angry. While we are at it, don't YOU ever take him breakfast in bed or wash his hair again angry. He should be embarrassed to be behaving like such a helpless baby. What's wrong with him FFS!? I have never heard the like. I used to wash exes hair sometimes but that was because I loved him and liked doing it to be close to him not because he expected it!

He sees you as nothing more that a servant, sorry but it's true, you are like a housemaid!

I am so angry reading this.

Ok well first off, well done. Congratulations on finding a course that you love, that you excel at, and putting in the effort to achieve great results and the chance to have a career you love. And well done for not listening to people who think you can't do, good for you, proving them wrong.

I say that because I very much doubt your H has said that to you. I doubt he has taken the time to appreciate and congratulate you on all your hard work.

As for the rest? You already know it's not right that you have to bring his breakfast, regardless of what you are doing, make his dinner the second he gets in, wash his hair etc.

Honestly? He isn't going to be very supportive of you studying and even less supportive if you succeed in a career you love.
In fact I suspect he will go out of his way to make it difficult for you.

Obviously I don't know the ins and out of your relationship but going on what you have written, if it's a choice between making yourself happy, building up your self esteem, being successful, being a great inspiration to your DCs or staying in a relationship with a man who thinks you are worthless, I'd embrace every bit of studying and success and get rid of him.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 11:39:15

Oh, if only it was that easy! It's not always easy to walk away.There are many reasons I can't just walk away.

He says I don't talk to him you see. But I do, it's just stuff he doesn't want to hear (like most of the issues above), so it turns into an argument, where I get called unreasonable.

I feel like a house servant at the moment. I feel taken for granted. But then he says he feels taken for granted because he does a job he hates (it's not a bad job really, plenty of prospects and its local government so safe etc, it's just not the glamorous life he naively thought he'd end up with). I can't win.

GilmoursPillow Wed 26-Jun-13 11:39:16

I would take a baby out of the plan straight away.

I wouldn't be sure if he wants a baby because he wants a baby with you, or because it would keep you home running around after him and completely scupper your plans to progress your career.

My instinct says the latter.

catsdogsandbabies Wed 26-Jun-13 11:39:35

You wash his hair? WTF? Breakfast in bed? No offense but I think you might have a little bit of an odd idea of what is normal - that is not normal! He is an adult right - he can wash his own hair! How demeaning.
I am not sure this is all about the degree decision and more about your relationship. Should you have a child with a man who treats you like this?
Phew what an example of a relationship for your DS too - I would worry he will think this is normal and expect it from his partner.
My DH might get a bit of toast and a coffee in bed on father's day - end of.
Seriously I think as you become more qualified and successful this may not go down well with your husband as he clearly has some set gender role ideas that suit the 50's more than today. Actually not even sure my mum would wash my dad's hair...

waddlecakes Wed 26-Jun-13 11:40:16

I think you've got some serious issues if you say ''we want another child'' on the one hand, and then ''I don't know whether I want to stay with him at all'' on the other.

Does he pay all the bills/rent/food/etc if you're studying? With all due respect (because I know you'll be getting a lot of support on this thread) - it sounds to me like you don't know how to look after yourself.

You married young, have never really worked, from what I can gather from your opening lines went straight from ex husband of 10 years to moving in with this man (possible overlap there? It's ambiguous). I can actually see that from his point of view, he may be picking up on a few things here, whether consciously or subsconciously - because it reads to me as if now that you are starting to ''blossom'' with your studies and different courses, etc, you're suddenly beginning to question your life with him. There may perhaps be a feeling on his side (whether warranted or not), that you relied on him to rescue you from the emotional mess that was your last relationship, and have suddenly done a 360.

It might not be fair of him to think in such a way - but I do think you need to start taking a bit of responsibility for your own life and being a little less passive and reliant. If you feel he mistreats you and you want to concentrate on your studies, then that's great and you should definitely do it. What's holding you back?

catsdogsandbabies Wed 26-Jun-13 11:40:22

Relationship therapy?

Sparklysilversequins Wed 26-Jun-13 11:40:43

Sorry your ds not dd.

waddlecakes Wed 26-Jun-13 11:40:48

'' It's not always easy to walk away.There are many reasons I can't just walk away.''

Such as?

Cabrinha Wed 26-Jun-13 11:41:06

You don't sound happy.
At all.
You wash his hair????!!!!!!!
Only you know if you should leave, but I really would say that now is not the time to have a baby with him.
Only have a baby if your marriage is solid.
And even if it was solid, I'd say things are really promising with your career - so focus on that first!

catsdogsandbabies Wed 26-Jun-13 11:41:42

Putting a new baby and a degree course into this mix is not going to go well. You need to make him listen and tell him how unhappy you are.

EMS23 Wed 26-Jun-13 11:42:33

Breakfast in bed and you wash his hair? Like a small child?
When and how did that become the established norm?

You have a great opportunity to do a course you love.

Are you absolutely sure you want to have a child with this man?

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 11:43:57

I know. It's horrible to hear people say it, but I know.

He sees it that he goes to work, pays the rent so when he gets home and at weekends, those few hours are his to relax in.

Mean while, I study all week, when I am at home studying I 'waste', for want of a better word, 2 hours of the day doing the school run, then I have to study, do all the cleaning, shopping etc. It's hard.

He sees that his job is work and my job is the home.

He just sits in bed like some sort of king waiting for his breakfast. If I pull him up on anything though, he always says 'well, I never asked you to do it'. But if I don't, he sulks.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 11:45:23

I desperately want a baby. My most recent miscarriage was horrible, I nearly died from blood loss, it's left me distraught.

fuzzywuzzy Wed 26-Jun-13 11:45:23

Did I read this right, you make this man

Breakfast in bed every morning
Run his bath
Wash his hair
Do all the house work

LTB, what exactly will you be missing out on except being this mans personal slave?

Cravingdairy Wed 26-Jun-13 11:46:45

I think you can win, long term, by moving on now before you become any more tied to this man. Consider the reasons you can't walk away - they shouldn't be insurmountable. You are an adult and you have the right to live in the way you choose.

Kaluki Wed 26-Jun-13 11:47:40

You run his bath, wash his hair shock, bring him breakfast in bed and have dinner on the table as he walks through the door?
WTF?? Are you his maid???
Sorry to say this but you are being a doormat. This is not a normal healthy relationship and he is no better than your ex.
Since you left your ex you have gained confidence in your own abilities and he is holding you back. Men like him don't want women who are ambitious or intelligent, they prefer them tied to the kitchen sink at their beck and call 24/7.
I don't say this a lot on here but in this case I say LTB. Do your OU course and be single for a while. Then you will meet someone worthy of you, who doesn't treat you like his own personal slave.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 11:49:40

waddlecakes - we live in an expensive part of the country, his entire wage each month is our rent. DS father pays maintenance and we get tax credits and a small amount of housing benefit. I have to do voluntary work placements for my course and before this only had GCSEs and no work experience or reference so couldn't find a job before I studies and during here has been no time.

I am very competent. I backpacked the world with ds when he was young. I could look after myself.

GilmoursPillow Wed 26-Jun-13 11:49:46

Wash his hair with Veet next time. angry

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 11:51:23

But how do I even talk to him about it? As soon as I start saying that I feel taken for granted, he comes back with 'try doing a job you hate with people you hate for 9 hours a day and then see if you want to do the hoovering, I'm tired and I need rest'.

I can't win.

waddlecakes Wed 26-Jun-13 11:53:01

Then if you can look after yourself, do it. You are questioning whether you should stay with him or not - that should tell you all you need to know.

You may want another baby now, but how does that fit in with your career plans? It doesn't.

I think you probably care for him, but what's keeping you is the rent and I think he probably senses that.

Sorry if it sounds harsh.

fuzzywuzzy Wed 26-Jun-13 11:54:24

dont talk to him about it, if he hatesh is job so much he could find another but he'd need to try for that.

I'll take bets that if youstay with him as soon as you qualify and get a good job, he'll quit and sit on his arse all day and you'll be expected to continue your current slave role as well as being the only breadwinner.

By all means have a baby, but not with this man.

LTB seriously, you have nothing to lose but the dead weight.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 11:54:28

waddles - there was an overlap in that me and ex were living in the same house, but it had been over for years, sep bedrooms etc. We only stayed together for the sake of ds, money issues, and he was only home from working abroad every other weekend anyway. It wasn't an affair.

Vakant Wed 26-Jun-13 11:58:00

No, you can't win. That's the crux of it, whatever you do won't be good enough for this man child. Leave him, he sounds awful, does he have any redeeming qualities? I suspect the answer to that is no.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 12:01:44

Can I just ask what everyone else does? In a situation like mine, where one works and one is at home (even studying etc). He just thinks its unfair that he would have to work and I don't at the mo and he would still have to do some housework.

My dad was ex forces, he was fastidious with cleaning, so thats what I grew up with, seeing both my parents do house work. The only thing my mother did on her own was cook, but that's because my father was a terrible cook. My dad worked, but he still cleaned up after himself.

But surely you are doing a job you hate?

You cannot possibly enjoy being this mans personal slave?

Ok look if he says "well I didnt ask you to do xyz" dont do it.
Let him sulk, the world will not end.

Polyethyl Wed 26-Jun-13 12:03:16

I always love hearing about people who struggled at school and then blossomed at higher education. All those distinctions must make you feel proud of yourself. You must do the degree. It would be such a waste to throw away such an important opportunity. And what lesson would that teach your child! If you want your child to work, study and excell then set him a good example - do the degree.
Ignore or retrain your chap. He sounds like he's trying to drag you down. Live your life for the best for you and your child.

Bumpstarter Wed 26-Jun-13 12:04:06

For a relationship to be satisfactory, I think you need 3 things
1) to fancy each other
2) to have enough interests and outlook in common
3) to have similar expectations of what roles each person will take within the relationship.

So, it seems from what you say that you don't have no 3 in common.
Therefore you need to weigh up a) staying in a relationship which is not satisfactory, with the security and possible more children. Or b) leaving and making a life alone, and recovering from abuse.

Somebody else will be along shortly to point out the red flags in your existing relationship.

Wishing you strength.

waddlecakes Wed 26-Jun-13 12:05:11

Lou, I'm not sure because I'm not married and would never want to be a stay at home Mum. If I was though, I would have to say that I would feel it was my duty to do the vast bulk of housework/cleaning, simply because if someone is out working 8 hours a day to pay for me to live, I would want to contribute as much energy and time to the household as he did.

Having said that, I would draw the line at breakfast in bed and hair washing. Cooking someone breakfast, ok (in fact a boyfriend used to do that for me). But in bed and hair washing to me is demeaning somehow.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 12:05:25

He does have some good features.

He doesn't go out drinking all the time, he rarely goes out alone, we tend to go out as a couple.
He loves my ds

Oh shit, I have come to a halt with the list. I thought it would be longer.

Madlizzy Wed 26-Jun-13 12:06:48

You already have 2 children, one of them is just a man child. Don't make his breakfast, don't run his bath and wash his hair, and if he sulks then so be it. That's his problem. If he moans about his job, tell him to put his energies into finding one that he does like, instead of whingeing at you. Personally, he'd have my boot right up his backside right out of the door until he sorted himself out.

waddlecakes Wed 26-Jun-13 12:07:11

OK, so you know what you need to do.

Now you need to do a bit of research and come up with a feasible solution for financially supporting yourself and your child whilst you continue to study.

Xales Wed 26-Jun-13 12:09:05

How can you want to have sex with this man to produce a child. He cannot be attractive in the slightest.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 12:10:10

I mainly stay for my ds.

He never knew me and his father were not a 'proper' couple. We hid it well. So well, that no one knew, and when I finally left, ex h played the spurned partner and said i'd had an affair. He used to laugh about it to me, how sorry he's made people feel for him. As far as ds is concerned, I took him away from his dad. And now he has a stepdad who he loves, I can't take that from him to. He feels secure now. I can't hurt him.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 12:11:52

One thing that I have maintained in this marriage is financial control though. I am in charge of everything money wise. My ex was financially abusive, so that is important to me now, to know exactly where every penny is.

TheConstantLurker Wed 26-Jun-13 12:13:39

I think you could sit him down and be very matter of fact. Don't get into 'I feel taken for granted' but matter of factly state that the situation isn't working for you, in future you will not be washing his hair or making breakfast in bed and anything else you have decided on. Tell him that you work just as hard as him but in different ways and either state or imply that if changes don't occur your relationship could be in jeopardy.

waddlecakes Wed 26-Jun-13 12:14:25

I'm not trying to discredit you, but upthread when giving details about the overlap, you said: ''it had been over for years, sep bedrooms etc. We only stayed together for the sake of ds, money issues, and he was only home from working abroad every other weekend anyway. It wasn't an affair.''

I just can't help but feel that you're not being fully honest. Why would your ex claim you had an affair, if you had both decided it had been over for years?

Anyway, your 10 year-old will get over it, I promise. You need to do what's right for you.

DisAstrophe Wed 26-Jun-13 12:14:56

Please don't have a baby with this horrible manchild. You will all be miserable. Your dc is 10 and deserves to enjoy the little childhood that remains without seeing his/her mother skivvy to this sulky and abusive git.

Sounds like with the child support from your ex and benefits you could easily afford to live alone. if you deferred studying for one year then your dc would be 11 and able to get to and from school on their own making it much easier for you to study.

In a few years time you will meet someone lovely and may perhaps have a baby with them.

But first you need to ltb!

fuzzywuzzy Wed 26-Jun-13 12:15:08

you might be surprised at how resilient your son is, or how much he does not blindly worship his stepfather.

I thought my girls wouldnt be able to live without their father, turned out they were just as terrified of him as I was and despised him even more for his treatment of me and them.

If your H treats you with such disdain I find it hard to believe he is a devoted father to your son.

At least look into your options, legally and also financialyl how you woudl cope what you owuld be entitled to and also could you work whilst doing your degree?

Bumpstarter Wed 26-Jun-13 12:15:33

He has a stepdad who is his role model. Would you want your ds to treat his partner in the way you are being treated?

TheConstantLurker Wed 26-Jun-13 12:15:52

Oh and if he strips just be prepared for that and let him get on with it. Repeat the 'this isn't working for me and changes are going to be made' mantra

TheConstantLurker Wed 26-Jun-13 12:16:27

Strops grin

chocoreturns Wed 26-Jun-13 12:18:00

you are living with an abusive man. Seriously. The Freedom course describes this kind of man as 'King of the Castle'. He will NOT improve, you cannot make him understand or change. His beliefs and his values dictate that you are a subserviant and sub-human addition to his life. As 'woman' you are 'slave'. Getting you pregnant is not about sharing a child with you, it's a way of tethering you to the home - he will most likely use any child of yours to further abuse you. Please, please find out more about what tactics abusive men like him employ because they NEVER get better, they get worse.

You and your DS deserve so much more from life. Your fear of leaving has been instilled by two terrible relationships and is not based in reality. I am not a 'LTB' brigade member. But I have ended an abusive marriage and become a single parent of two - it's so, so much better than the life you are describing. I feel scared for you thinking that you might actually have a baby with a man this entitled, controlling and mean. No good will come of it, and I think deep down you know that -

I'm so sorry for your recent loss as well. I know that the pain of a miscarriage can make you desperate for another chance to have a baby and make it right. Those feelings are normal, but they are feelings, not facts - no baby can make this relationship right. I really would like to give you a hug and hold your hand through this, and show you the better life you and your son could and should be living. It makes me sad for you

Ehhn Wed 26-Jun-13 12:18:24

Ltb and don't dont don't have a baby!!!

You have your life potentially about to go into an upswing, a lovely DS and a potentially glowing future... And you are going to give it up for this over grown man-child??? Who is less mature and more selfish than a 10 yro little lad?? You don't need him. Even if it is a money issue, there is a lot of help for studying, including low interest bank loans for mature students. Go to your bank, CAB and your university to find out what you can do.
Then Ltb!! [open mouthed that you wash his hair...]

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 12:18:41

waddles - because that's what he's like! Ex h was actually seeing someone himself before I met dh, it jsut wasnt serious so he didn't want to go through the hassle of house/money issues to live with her.

He loves attention. He was pissed off that I was the one to go first, so he made everyone feel sorry for him. I have no friends now, people I knew since school took his side.

Phalenopsis Wed 26-Jun-13 12:19:17

"Can I just ask what everyone else does?"

I'm at home at the moment - no children. We share most household tasks. Obviously I do more as I'm here but he doesn't expect me to have dinner ready when he comes in (actually he doesn't expect me to be in when he comes home), We share the ironing, washing up etc. I do the cooking because I'm much better at it than him although sometimes he does cook at the weekends as he likes to. He does clean more often than I do but that's because he has a higher standard of cleanliness than I do.

What he doesn't do is expect to wash his hair FFS! or bring him breakfast in bed every day (I do on his birthday and on other odd occasions). He doesn't expect a skivvy. He doesn't expect someone to subsume their whole personality to keep him happy. He isn't a child. I don't get on with his mum, but I'll say this for her - she brought him up to be independent and respectful. In his words, I'm his 'chum'. We're pals. We help each other. I'm not lucky. I deserve this as I'm a person not an object or a housekeeper.

The housework issue is indicative of the fact that he seems to very little respect for you. This is NOT the way to live.

Oh btw, love the comment about washing his hair with Veet. grin

Dahlen Wed 26-Jun-13 12:19:49

I think you fell out of the arms of one abuser right into the arms of another. I think your current DH liked to think of himself as your rescuer and now feels entitled to undying gratitude and hero-worship in return.

You, OTOH, are finally realising exactly what you are capable of, and it's much more than you thought.

If your DH really loved you he would be celebrating in your discovery and encouraging you to build on your success. He would not be moaning about your inattention to housework/him because of it regardless of how much he hated his job, because how is you doing more housework/giving up your dream going to improve his job satisfaction? It won't. It will simply feed his desire to feel powerful by reinforcing his status as king of his own little castle.

Don't subject your DS to growing up thinking it is normal for women to run around after men like this. The sense of entitlement he will learn will prevent him from ever achieving a happy, equal relationship.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 12:20:12

I am not running off by the way, I have to go for a tutorial now (my final one!) but I will be back on later. I have never spoken of any of this before, thank you all.

MortifiedAdams Wed 26-Jun-13 12:20:16

I had to stop after "I wash his hair". I havent read the rest of your post.

Run. Run for the fucking hills.

waddlecakes Wed 26-Jun-13 12:20:27

Jesus, what a mess. OK Lou, try and cut away all the ''but what about DS, etc etc'' stuff, keep your mind blank and ask yourself: do you fully want to leave this man?

2madboys Wed 26-Jun-13 12:21:27

If you want an idea of normal, here's what we do. I work part-time, term time, DH works full time. We have two dss, 12 and 10.

In the morning, DH gets up first as he has to leave first. He empties dishwasher and starts getting breakfast ready. When I get downstairs I join in and kids do to.

Everyone makes their own packed lunches.

I cook dinner most nights and it's usually ready sometime soon after he gets home, but not on the table when he arrives.

I do most of the housework, laundry, shopping and cleaning, etc, but he pitches in if I need him to/ask. If he sees stuff needs doing he does it. We do household admin together or he does some, I do some. It's a team, not a competition to see who can do more/less.

If your DH is so unhappy in his job he should look for another one, not use it as a stick to beat you with. Sounds like he was brought up by a mother who did everything for him? Don't let your son end up the same way by seeing this example.

shrinkingnora Wed 26-Jun-13 12:21:48

Quite seriously I know a man with cerebral palsy (wheelchair bound but can crawl upstairs etc) who does more for himself than your DH. And he works longer hours. And he cooks for his wife.

Vakant Wed 26-Jun-13 12:22:12

He is being hurt though. Staying in this toxic relationship, he is being shown that this is normal and it isn't.

You asked how things worked in other people's homes. Well my situation is that I'm a sahm and my husband works full time. I do do the lions share of the housework and cooking, he does all the household admin/car stuff/gardening. However I am not studying full time like you are though so I have the time to take on more than him when it comes to household chores. And he certainly doesn't expect me to do it or complain if I've not done any because I've been busy with our daughter, or just plain couldn't be bothered! We are a partnership, and we pull our weight in different ways, appreciate what the other does, and ultimately will both take up the slack when needed to help the other out.

vintagecakeisstillnice Wed 26-Jun-13 12:24:11

I have read your OP and all the comments and keep coming back to one point YOU FECKING WASH HIS HAIR. . .

I mean really? Seriously?

Do you really want your child seeing this as a normal relationship???

What is normal, very few of us can claim our normal is everyone's normal.
But pandering to a manchild like this is most definitely not normal.

nilbyname Wed 26-Jun-13 12:25:39

Do not have a baby with this man! I am so sorry to hear about your miscarriages, how awful for you.

You know you are living in an abusive and unsustainable relationship. It's really really hard but you need to start thinking of how things can change for you.

CatInWellies Wed 26-Jun-13 12:25:56

I'm a SAHM, with one child in school and a toddler. My DP doesn't particularly enjoy his job. I do not do all the housework, when DP does things he doesn't call it "helping" me or expect fawning and gratitude. I have occasionally made him breakfast in bed but he doesn't expect it, I do it as a treat.
Your relationship is far from normal, you are living with a selfish, entitled overgrown baby, and you're letting him walk all over you.

Stop running around after him, let him sulk. If he starts spouting the crap about hating his job,turn it back on him and tell him you work bloody hard and don't even have the benefit of being paid for it, plus you have his moods to deal with on top!

Seriously, I know LTB isn't as easy as just walking out, but it's no harder than what he puts you through daily. Do NOT have a baby with him. I had a baby with a tyrant of a man, I am now tied to him for life through our son. Don't let that happen to you.

LurcioLovesFrankie Wed 26-Jun-13 12:26:44

Lou, imagine 50 years from now your OP on your tombstone. Is that really what you want your life to have amounted to? 50 years spent washing some abusive ...'s hair for him?

FrequentFlyerRandomDent Wed 26-Jun-13 12:27:38

I am very sorry for your MC.

Could you access counselling just for you?

You have been in an abusive relationship before and there is a lot going on in the current one.

Reading your OP, it made me think that you have become a mother for him rather than a partner. It is the wrong dynamic. But I do not know how to break it. It also means he may quickly come to resent losing his place to a real baby.

I wonder if the desired baby is actually your desire to be unconditionally loved. A counsellor could entangle this with you maybe. I agree you have many more years at any rate. I would address the relationship before the baby.

As for how other couples manage, I am a SAHP and DH works very long hours. I do the DCs, cooking, online food shopping, laundry (no ironing)' house chores, but frankly cleaning is bottom of my list but DH does not mind. Once in a while DH cleans tricky places: high, hard to reach, moving furniture. He does the DIY, an occasional Saturday food shop, takes DCs to weekend activities, bike repairs, hangs the wash if it needs doing, gardening (balcony - we area flat dwellers), generally helping where he can...

Bant Wed 26-Jun-13 12:29:17

Does he ever wash your hair, out of interest?

Different couples have different dynamics, it's difficult to say that X is right and Y is wrong. But this just seems ridiculous.

Expecting a cooked breakfast every morning makes him look like he's stuck in the 1950s. Expecting you to wash his hair makes him look like he's 4.

One thing you could do is sit down and ask him if he honestly thinks it's a good idea, your going to college and getting a degree. Make out that you're conflicted and scared about it (it might not take much acting) - how he answers that if he thinks it's not a test will speak volumes. A good husband should support you do to something to 'better' yourself, stretch yourself and be all you can be.

I think he's going to come up with lots of reasons why it's actually not a good idea, though. Including you having less time to pander to his every whim look after him.

nilbyname Wed 26-Jun-13 12:29:56

My dh works full time in a stressful senior mgt role. He works away lots. I work 3 days and we have 2 little kids.

Dh makes his own breakfast and the kids when he is home in the morning. He will bathe, read stories to and out kids to bed when I am here.

I do most of the h/work but he does bins, garden, DIY, vacuuming and we do the bathrooms equally. We also tidy up around ourselves/kids and he empties the dishwasher mostly.

I think that is pretty normal.

Bant Wed 26-Jun-13 12:31:27

I've seen various posts on here which show the calculation of how much a cook, cleaner, childminder, nursery assistant etc get paid, and how much a husband should 'pay' her for those tasks if she is a SAHM. I've never seen hair-washer included in the list though.

donnab1983 Wed 26-Jun-13 12:32:24

You wash his hair! I have never heard of a wife having to wash their dh hair! Breakfast in bed as a every now and then I can understand but everyday! I have been married 7 years, and yes even though I work 4 days a week a lot of the cooking and cleaning falls on me but I think that is quite natural, what you are having to do is basically look after a child not a husband! I think he would be far fetched to find anyone else to do so much for him! Look after yourself or you will end up running yourself into the ground xx

tightfortime Wed 26-Jun-13 12:32:46

He is very jealous and threatened by your new-found confidence and obvious (to you now) intelligence.

He is very worried that you will go on to be more successful than him, not need him and leave him. Hence the mad baby making plans.

Therefore, as your ‘rescuer’ he must put you back in your box and keep you there, by making you a slave, by getting you pregnant.

He belittles you when you try and talk, sulks when he doesn’t get his own way and is never happy even when you try. That’s cruel. And no role model for your child.

Get the hell away and deffo do your degree.

vvviola Wed 26-Jun-13 12:33:49

OP - I can't offer much advice, but you asked up thread about what other people do.

I'm a SAHM/part-time student. I'm doing a Masters, so while the contact hours are low, it's essentially considered "full time" due to the outside work that needs doing.

DD1 is at school, DD2 is in childcare 3 days a week to allow for lectures & study. DH works from home twice a week to let me leave earlier (he drops DD1 to school those days), other days he's out of the house by 6am so he can be home for 5pm. I do most of the day to day housework/laundry cooking. DH hoovers, sorts out bins, baths the DDs, and mucks in here and there at weekends. We share lie ins at the weekend.

It's not perfect. He can be a bit critical and assume that if there's something he thinks should be done first, then it should be done first. I feel a bit put upon and unappreciated sometimes and possibly exaggerate how long things take wink. I make him tea some mornings when he's working from home, of if he's working late at night, but if I brought him breakfast in bed even on a special occasion he'd think I'd lost my mind.

It isn't easy juggling study & being a part-time SAHM, but it would be an awful lot harder without his support

changechangechange Wed 26-Jun-13 12:35:09

Have to agree with waddle - you do deserve better than this, you deserve a relationship of equality and love and mutual respect, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the person who is SAHM/studying to do the overwhelming majority of the housework.

I am sympathetic. But I also put myself through a degree via evening study, so I could continue being an equal partner in terms of paying rent and bills; because we both worked, we both did household stuff. Nobody washed anybody else's hair. The 'triple burden' was v v hard for me, but I've graduated without being beholden to my abusive bastard ex and that is worth it a million times over. (I'm now a student single parent, and the happiest I've ever been. Would definitely recommend!)

MumnGran Wed 26-Jun-13 12:35:48

If you hadn't mentioned that this was your DH at the start, I would have assumed you were talking about a teenager!
You say you don't want to be his mother but actually your actions and reactions are very 'maternal'

Sadly suspect that this could be a classic "rebound" relationship, and now that you have grown on further, discovered yourself, and have decent prospects opening up ahead of you .....he is now driving you crackers. If that is the case, then it may well just be all downhill from here. I don't hear much about love in your post.

I sacrificed a lot for my children, and their security, and have never been a believer in chasing dreams at the expense of family happiness....but this is not what you are talking about. There should be genuine support for you in forging ahead with education, because he should be delighted that you are 'shining' and support you all the way. Apart from anything else, this future represents an opportunity for long-term higher family income - and therefore possibilities!!. Sounds to me as though he is far more worried that you will outshine him, and would prefer you being tied to the kitchen sink.

Take time to examine everything, and be certain - because this is a second marriage, and your DC will be very affected if it is really over ....but honestly, if you do feel the way you have made it sound, then you are probably going to lead a better happier life without him as a drain on your emotions and resources.

lovesmellingthecoffee Wed 26-Jun-13 12:38:48

it worked in my home like this -
I was doing a distance learning course with a baby under one and a toddler,
My dh took annual leave when a piece of work was due in, so that i could concentrate on my work without any distractions,whilst he looked after the house and kids, and made my dinner as well. when we didnt have a computer he took my hand written notes into work and typed them up for me in his lunch break.
And then he came with to my graduation.

RandomFriend Wed 26-Jun-13 12:39:20

Congratulations on doing so well at your law studies. Keep it up!

This just shows that your dad and XH underestimated your capacity and undermined you through their criticism.

You need to avoid getting into a situation with your DH in which he can undermine your capacity to study. That he doesn't value the effort of studying is a big red flag.

And writing off the school run as a "waste of time" - how dare he?

Having a baby with this man would be a big mistake.

LisaMed Wed 26-Jun-13 12:40:00

Do you want your son to expect his wife to behave like you do with your husband? Do you want your son to behave like your husband if his wife tries to do anything different? How are you going to manage the process of bringing up a son who has the potential to be a good man and a good husband?

I hope it all works out for you.

Phalenopsis Wed 26-Jun-13 12:40:38

He ought to be shouting from rooftops about his clever wife who had an idiot for a father and an abusive moron for an ex. As others have mentioned, getting you pregnant helps him retain control of you.

Very scary.

My DS is 8 and does more for himself with less whinging than your DH.

Sorry but you are allowing him to treat you like this (he shouldn't be) but no matter how much DH whined he would not get me washing him or his hair (well other than when he broke his shoulder) or making him breakfast in bed (other than on anniversaries or special occasions).

FFS I work although am off at the moment. I have a cleaner too. I tidy each day, do the school run, the ironing, washing, shopping, bake, make lunches, plan meals.

DH comes home from a job he does admit to liking - he is out of the house for over 12 hours factoring in his commute. He is happy to help with anything, running the kids about, loading and unloading the dishwasher, putting some washing out, ironing whilst watching the football etc etc etc.

He does this because we are a team, it is not bloody tit for tat. Why is he expecting you to make up for him making a shite choice with his degree course and why in gods name are you letting him.

And with all due respect (am 40 next year and pregnant so you do have time) do you really want a 10 year old and 2 babies to look after.

This has got my hormones going - I would spit in his tea and use his toothbrush to be cleaning the toilet.

When your son is a 40 year old virgin look back and blame yourself and your husband as any self respecting woman would run a mile from a man who thinks that she is going to cook him breakfast each day and wash him (WTF) - this is what you are teaching your son is normal behaviour from a man and a nice little subservient woman.

MatersMate Wed 26-Jun-13 12:53:36

ok Lou, he hates his job, that's his problem to address.

he is jealous of your happiness and potential career, that's fucked up right there.

he shows you no respect, 2 of his 3 redeeming features on your list were things he didn't do, go out drinking and going out on his own?!

I had my last baby at 39, you have plenty of time for that, please persist your career, for yourself and your future with your son, because of it does go tits up, you can both have a much better chance of a great life.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 12:54:17

The thing that makes me most sad though is that I was never like this before I met him. My ex was a horrible man, but it never got to me. I would laugh in his face.

Now I just feel as if I am completely broken.

waddlecakes Wed 26-Jun-13 12:54:54

Can you identify what it is exactly that makes you feel broken?

learnasyougo Wed 26-Jun-13 12:57:41

This man will do whatever it takes to scupper your success in your degree. He is already petulant and immature and wants you to be his mum and housekeeper, this will only get WORSE as you have something that takes you away from his 'needs'.

You will not miss him in a year's time away from him. I PROMISE you that. I did an OU degree. The first year I was with a total arse of a man who did not support me. I LTB (for other reasons) and took a year out of study. It was my current partner who encouraged me to start it up again and I could count on his support and my grades went up, considerably (I went from typically 50-60%, barely scrape-by passes to distinctions).

The level of care he enjoys is NOT NOT NOT normal just because he has a 9-5 job. Other, normal grown-ups go out to work and use their at-home time and weekends for things like laundry, grocery shopping, cleaning the house etc. What does he think single people do? What does he think others do (including those who have partners, stay-at-home or otherwise?!)

He will fight tooth and nail to keep you because no one else would give him such a sweet deal and he bloody knows it. His strops and sulks and petulance have worked on you so far but I think it's time you refused to engage when he is like this. All you'd be doing in encouraging. It's hard to change old habits, but for your own sanity and your degree, you really must.

If you leave him, you may be financially worse off. BUt you would be better off in EVERY OTHER WAY. Seriously. When it comes to finances you'll get by, but in your current situation you risk jeoparding that degree and you will be ground down.

I knew a woman married to a man-child like this (he used to refuse to let her come to guide camp as an adult helper, because he needed his dinners cooked. After years she negotiated that she would cook all his foods ahead and label it in the fridge with reheating instructions.

During the camping weekend she got a call from him to say he had food poisoning. He'd been so lazy he ate the dinners cold from the fridge instead of reheating them. Of course, his food poisoning was ALL HER FAULT and she was never allowed to go away again.

She later had a baby (her third) with him and she never left him (she had been close before the baby arrived). Sad, because now she is the most broken woman I know.

learnasyougo Wed 26-Jun-13 12:59:39

It's not too late, Lou. You know what you have to do, now you just need to muster up that courage. We're here to hold your hand.

Figgygal Wed 26-Jun-13 13:00:51

Others have given you much more eloquent advice than i could but all i do want to say is do not have a child with this man it will be something else left for you to. Take of by yourself and is unfair to you and your ds.

And yes your 2nd post is right LTB

learnasyougo Wed 26-Jun-13 13:02:26

oh and re the blaming you about how much he sacrifices by going to a job he hates. Boo bloody Hoo. My dad did this, throwing about what a martyr he is for sticking out a job for us kids. He told us he only went there for us and if he didn't have to pay for our shoes and coats and whatnot he'd have quit years ago. I felt guilty for years.

Then I got older, moved away. All of us kids became financially independent, mum divorced him and he was STILL AT THAT JOB he apparently 'hated' for another 20 years, until he retired this year.

OxfordBags Wed 26-Jun-13 13:06:21

I got to where you wash his hair for him 'for an easy life' and thought LTB. I knew how the rest of the OP would pan out, because pathetic, whiny abusers like him are oh so drearily predictable, like they get some sort of script straight from The NeedleDick Academy of Inadequates.

OP, my grandparents (now deceased) were born in 1905. Washing my grandad's hair for him would not even have crossed my grandmother's mind. I don't think he even got brekkie in bed on Father's Day! The hair thing is not an old-fashioned thing, that's the sort of things slaves used to have to do for the masters who kept them as sex slaves on plantations.

You are a woman who is clearly highly naturally highly intelligent, independent and a coper. But your upbringing, particularly your father's horrid view of view have made you have this other persona of someone who will be treated like shit, treated like a skivvy, thinks they are thick, etc., etc. There is such a contrast in what you write, of how the very low self-esteem way you see yourself versus the real facts of you backpacking with a baby, getting top marks at uni, etc. When a woman thinks poorly of herself and doesn't believe she deserves much from life and is habitualised into thinking men will look down on her, she attracts losers and abusers like your OH.

He is the inadequate type of loser - he's not happy with his life, he can't and won't take responsibility for his life, make changes, etc., be fully adult and independent, so he takes all his shit out on you, he whines, he gets out of being a normal, decent man by guilt-tripping and sulking, prevaricating, making then breaking promises, somehow making out that his problems are your fault, making you feel like because he is dissatisfied, then it is disloyal, selfish and loving of you to succeed or be happy in life. Need I go on? He will not change, he is too immature and damaged. Wat he will change, however, is your DS,because seeing you being treated this way will tech him to become an arsehole like his stepfather. Your love and good treatment won't count for much with such a dire male role model.

PLEASE do not have a baby with this man. It will trap you further. Please start looking at your true, inner needs, instead of trying to make something happen, ie. a baby, just to try to fill the empty holes within yourself. It is so wrong and selfish to being a child into an unhappy and crappy relationship just because of your desire for a child. It is unfair and disgraceful to bring a child into the world for the wrong reasons. And another child will only a bad thing worse. Never better.

What you want is someone to love you. You don't know how to love yourself and your OH doesn't love you properly, but you must NOT create a life to try to give yourself that. It will fail anyway, because the emptiness will still be there if you have 20 babies. You need to leave this pitiful loser and get some decent, long-term therapy to examine why you put yourself down so much and settle for so little in relationships.

BTW, all the things you list as his good points are the very basics you should expect from a partner. They don't really count as good points. If they are his only good points, you really are scraping the bottom of the barrel, you poor thing.

I agree you need to get out for your son's sake. Why would you want this idiot as a role model, influencing his life. sad
Don't have a child with him or you will be tied to him forever. I understand that yearning for a baby after a miscarriage. i had 3 in a row. You probably could do with some counselling to sort out your feelings as after everything that has happened you seem to be accepting things that are just not acceptable.
Get some financial advice find somewhere else to live and become a student single-parent. Yes it would be hard but no harder than what you are putting up with at the moment.
You owe it to yourself and your DS to leave now.

SorryMyLollipop Wed 26-Jun-13 13:21:20

Your son will honestly be happy if you are happy. This man should not be anyone's role model.

I am not working at the moment. This morning my DP got up, made breakfast for my 2 DC, made me a cup of tea, brought it up to me. Helped me get the DC ready for school, washed up, had a shower (washed HIS OWN hair), made his packed lunch and went to work (after making me another cup of tea).

I feel loved and valued. That is my idea of "normal".

SunRaysthruClouds Wed 26-Jun-13 13:35:11

OP I broadly agree with everyone else in saying that he is obviously behaving like a tosser.

But there are one or two things that seem not to be mentioned:
1) I may have missed it but does he know why you are doing your degree and how the family will benefit from it?
2) You have only been together 2 1/2 years - it sounds like you are committing yourself to slavery by washing his hair, but how did it start? And the breakfast/dinner thing too? It hasn't been going on too long to stop it you know.

It sounds to me like he is a product of a bygone era when wifey is at home to do her husbands bidding and therefore the studying you are doing is for your own benefit and so is the equivalent of leisure time.

It doesn't really sound like you want to save your relationship and no one else here wants you to, but I guess in case there is hope then you need to talk and try to re-educate him in 21st century ways, and also explain why you and the family will benefit from the studying you are doing. (Of course you are entitled to do whatever studying / quals you want but it may not be clear to him what is going on and he is afraid of the 'new you')

Good luck.

QueenofallIsee Wed 26-Jun-13 13:35:24

All my love for you OP - this is such a sad thread as you are clearly so so clever and enthusiastic about life and deserve so much more. I would never advocate leaving a marriage without good reason but I would wonder if perhaps this man should have been your rebound guy, the guy before the right guy iyswim. Continue your education, remember that you are not accountable for anyone elses happiness but your own and show the world what you have to offer x

Your life sounds terrible. I'm sorry it does.

My DH also works very hard in a job he dislikes.
At the moment, I'm a sahm of 3 kids.

I do as much as I can around the house and at wkends DH does too. The idea of running his bath, washing his hair, or even making him breakfast in bed makes me cringe - and it would him too. Your DH sounds appalling. Really.

It is so fab you've found the course you want to do, a career you are working towards. Grab this with both hands and don't look back at this gigantic baby you are living with.

DrHolmes Wed 26-Jun-13 13:42:21

You wash his hair. Leave the bastard for that alone. Get on with your life instead of living it to please his needs. You already have a second baby...him! If he says try doing a job you hate with people you hate for 9 hours a day say you do too and its all day every day. The prick. Leave, carry on with your studies and good luck!

Damnautocorrect Wed 26-Jun-13 14:02:04

Taking everything you do for him out the equation for a minute. By supporting you in your studies you can potentially go into a high earning job? Meaning he could maybe leave his job and do something he loves?

The fact he's totally missed this point indicates his need to control you.
He should be supporting you as ultimately it will help him get to where he wants to be, but he doesn't as it's about controlling you, just like the breakfast in bed, just like the hair wash.

onefewernow Wed 26-Jun-13 14:03:37

He just sits in bed like some sort of king waiting for his breakfast. If I pull him up on anything though, he always says 'well, I never asked you to do it'. But if I don't, he sulks.

Think about that.

Sometimes we also oppress ourselves.

I also used to react to H's moods, and allow it to enable him to control me.

You can stop doing that, if you want.

Let him ask for what he wants, and tell him what you are or are not prepared to do.

Certainly I would not give up studying in your place.

MissStrawberry Wed 26-Jun-13 14:05:21

You asked what other people do when one person is out at work and one at home.

This is our situation. DH and I have been together for 17 years and I stopped work when expecting my first baby and haven't worked since. DH has always worked. His job is in an office, my job is in and around the home. I can do my job because DH does his. DH can do his job because I do mine.

When DH gets in he immediately gets on with whatever needs to be done involving the kids, animals or house. We have 3 children and I can only do so many things at once but DH realises he is an adult and a father so just does whatever I haven't done either because I have run out of time or because I couldn't be bothered. Doesn't matter to him, he just does it. Never ever complains. Always appreciative if I have made extra when cooking for the kids so he doesn't have to cook. Would never expect it. Always says thank you.

Your husband is a pathetic specimen. He has got it into his head that he is the boss of the house when he isn't even equal to you.

Do not have a baby with this man. If you want a baby there are ways and means.

Do your degree. You have achieved so much already, please don't throw it away on someone who doesn't deserve a bean from you never mind to give up a huge opportunity. Show your child what you can achieve when you work hard.

And hovering needs doing whether you work 15 hour days or 15 minutes. The flooring is, as yet, unable to clean itself when sharing a house with people who make a mess.

Please please please stop bowing down to this pillock and get the fuck out.

BeCool Wed 26-Jun-13 14:06:50

Gosh - well it's all been said above, but I didn't want to read and run.

Lou you sound like you are a 'late bloomer' re your studies etc (like I was). You are focused and organised, you are setting goals, doing really well with your studies etc. Keep going as you WILL achieve all you set out to. Please please don't give up on yourself or let this man grind you down.

This man just wants to run/grind/pull/claw you down to his level of misery.

Boo hoo his job is shit! Him and so many other people - but he's blaming you for it? He's using it as an excuse to opt out of participating in the rest of his life. He sounds unredeemable.

Yet you still want to know how to talk with him? If you really want to bother how about starting with "I am going to study FT, I am no longer going to wash your hair, run your bath, make your breakfast, and I need/want/expect/insist on you doing 50% of cooking/shopping/housework etc. Is there anything that is unclear about this? Are you on board? Let's discuss it now."

But I would say the above is pointless as he will simply sulk/whine/ say its unfair/pout and blame you for being horrible to him.

You are really on the up - yet your husband wants to drag you down and keep you there so he feels better about himself.

If you a regular reader of the relationship threads on MN you will KNOW if you have a baby with this man his abusive behaviour will only get worse.

As for this "I make him breakfast in bed every morning, regardless of if I am leaving half an hour earlier than him to get to college, I run his bath, wash his hair. All this for an easy life or he sulks.", to quote Meatloaf "STOP RIGHT THERE". Seriously do yourself a favour and just stop all this five star hotel fantasy behaviour. Recognise that you are choosing to do these things for him, and YOU CAN CHOOSE not to. Let him sulk. I'm really surprised you have any time at all for this man, and any thing left inside to even care if he sulks.

One thing at a time. Focus on your son and your studies. Another baby will come later - you have time, and for now, you have other really important priorities.

Don't waste your precious life/resources on someone who wants to keep you down so he feels better about himself - no wonder this is really getting you feeling broken - you are married to a man who hates and disrespects you - that really is a special level of shitty behaviour.

You sound like you actually have everything you need to move forward to a really happy and fulfilling life, without him. You already have one leg in a brand new happy educated life - please allow the other leg to complete the jump.

MissStrawberry Wed 26-Jun-13 14:10:17

hovering is optional and not vital.

hoovering however needs doing.

ReginaPhilangie Wed 26-Jun-13 14:11:47

I mean this in the nicest possible way, seriously LTB! You say you got together quite quickly after your break up from ex-h, it sounds like you walked straight from the frying pan and into the fire! He's an utter fuckwit! FWIW I haven't worked for the past 12 years (SAHM) and up until quite recently DH was the sole breadwinner. I did most of the housework but he most definitely pulled his weight and would never expect anything in relation to the house from me, anything I did do was a bonus and he would thank me for it. Thanks for washing my clothes, thanks for making my tea, thanks for doing the shopping. Your husband sounds like an entitled shit who expects you to be his mummy and slave. You are neither of these things, please just walk away from him while it's still easy to. Don't have a baby with this manchild, he'll ruin your life.

I am very sad to read this.

I don't want to sound harsh at all, but I don't think he likes you. He clearly doesn't respect you.

Wouldn't you rather be on your own? Or even with somebody nice instead, one day?

I wash DH's hair occasionally or run him a bath once in a blue moon, because he likes it and I want to, it's certainly not something to expect.

You have done brilliant with your studies despite no support. He has a housekeeper/personal maid/sex provider all on tap and what do you get in return? A roof over your head and snide comments.

I think you deserve much more, don't you? thanks

DoesBuggerAll Wed 26-Jun-13 14:20:44

Let's see. It's ok for you to rubbish his studies as a stupid uni degree but

DoesBuggerAll Wed 26-Jun-13 14:28:16

Let's see. It's ok for you to rubbish his studies as a stupid uni degree but on the other hand your studies are really important?

He has had to ditch his dreams and hopes for the future and subject himself to the mental torture of the daily grind having the very marrow sucked from his bones but that's ok since you are right behind him helping to support the family by choosing not to work, in fact you've never worked. Instead you choose to study and now want to commit to three more years of study whilst he financially supports you. Your choice of degree of course will lead to guaranteed high paying employment and isn't a stupid degree. I hope you are really sure about that. I know plenty of women who have done degrees after being a SAHM and none of them have walked into high paying jobs. Not to say they haven't improved their lot but most didn't get employment in their chosen fields.
It's funny that so many women on here are saying LTB. Funnily enough I would give the same advice. To him.

But DoesBuggerAll how will he wash his own hair? Make his own breakfast? He is far too important and speshul to run his own bath you know.

myfriendflicka Wed 26-Jun-13 14:33:20

One of those misogynist trolls again.

You do your degree, OP.

Don't let anyone put you off.

waddlecakes Wed 26-Jun-13 14:34:17

Yes, DoesBuggerAll, I can certainly see the other side to it as well. I can see it from both sides, to be honest.

The other side is you have a man working long hours, who (rightly) suspects that he was used as a rebound, who is supporting a woman and her child while she continues to study towards something that potentially won't lead to any sort of employment at all (I say that because although many people go back into education, they've usually worked for a few years first, and also the OP mentions wanting another baby badly, which is at odds with wanting to start a new career).

GirlWiththeLionHeart Wed 26-Jun-13 14:35:31

You wash his hair?!!! confused

Look OP
You have a choice here.
1) study, be fulfilled, be proud of yourself, be a great role model to your DS, be happy, have probably just the one child.
2) give up your dreams, be this horrible man's house slave and verbal whipping girl for the foreseeable, give a terrible model of relationships to your son, but get to have another baby, for whom you will do all the care in an increasingly miserable home.

You only have one life.

glamstretchmarks Wed 26-Jun-13 14:42:35

Get out woman!! Get out, get out, get out!! A DP/DH is supposed to bring positive things to your life, not keep you from them!! This man child is a waste of your time.

It doesn't sound it I know, but it really is as simple as walk away. Yes there will be some things that need to be sorted and yes, some nights will seem tough but YES YOU CAN!!

Any grown man who goes out to work should have their own slave, right?

Weird attitude.

Ditch the dick and do the degree!

You're his slave by the sounds of it because

jalopy Wed 26-Jun-13 14:53:48

I think you need to get a job.

3littlefrogs Wed 26-Jun-13 14:57:11

Sorry, but when I got to the running his bath and washing his hair I thought: "why are you with him".

I would be running for the hills without a backward glance.

shelldockley Wed 26-Jun-13 14:59:02

OP, everyone is saying LTB, this relationship isn't working for either of you, or your DC. It's hard, but one step at time.

One thing I would advise is to try and get away for a few weeks to clear your head and try to think about this from outside this black hole you are in. Is there anyone you can go stay with, just you and DC for a few weeks during the summer holidays? I really think it would help you to see things clearly.

escorpion Wed 26-Jun-13 15:00:39

I would be putting immac in his hair the bastard. No way would I serve breakfast in bed, run a bath and wash hair for my husband. Who the actual fu** does he think he is? I am angry for you.

DoesBuggerAll Wed 26-Jun-13 15:03:53

I'd like to add that I don't think you should be expected to run his bath, wash his hair and bring him breakfast in bed. Now that is taking the piss by anybody's standards.

I stand by my comments though. Seriously I'd tell the guy to run for the hills now. Otherwise after several years of supporting her through uni, having a baby with you (and becoming rather attached to it - men do sometimes actually care about their children) you are liable to leave him and take his children with you. Get out now man!

That's a good point jalopy
Get a little evening job in a pub or something and leave the man-child to look after himself. Let's see how he copes then shall we??

Ignore the idiot misogynistic men on this thread who are just as entitled as your DH and do what you want to do.

As others have said, this will impact you son massively. You are teaching him that it is OK to treat women like this and that it's OK for the woman to just put up and shut up.

It's not right and you know it, or you would not have posted. Get out and don't look back.

Do the freedom programme that womens aid run, and get your boundaries sorted out.

What you describe is not normal at all!!!

I've realised recently that my ex was a bit misogynistic. But even he got up every morning to make me a cup of tea in bed. He did his bit outside of the home!!!

You can do this. There is always a way out. Good luck.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 15:06:06

Dh did do a shit degree - Even he says that. it was an excuse to extend his childhood. he never even worked holidays. He did music performance. It leads to nothing. He thought his band would make it big. They all made it to the dole queue and have up.

With or without me he would have ended up in a job he hated.

I am going to do a degree which will give me a career in health and social care. Am deciding between social work and social science. It will lead to a job. My thoughts were I could have a child while I studied and then when I had a full time job it would be of nursery age.

I couldn't find a job when I left ex. I applied for everything, cleaning jobs, the chip shop. I didn't have experience or references and no one would give me a chance.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 15:07:20

He's not working long hours either. Cushy job at the council, strictly 9 to 5, flexitime, 10 min walk from home.

I think the issue is not that you make his breakfast, have dinner on the table or help wash his hair (I do all of those for my DH because when you have an even relationship they do nice things for you too), it is that he does nothing at all in the house and doesn't appreciate that you work hard too.

My DH works 6 days a week quite late on average in a physical job, but still helps bath kids etc... And on his one day off makes me breakfast, cleans and cooks dinner. I am a SAHM though and when he was SAHD he did everything I do now. If I was studying FT we would divide the chores evenly.

Put having a baby on hold.

Stop making his breakfast etc... He is perfectly capable of getting himself ready.

Write a list of all the weekly jobs in the house and sit down with him and divide them up.

If he doesn't get on board and isn't willing to go to relationship counselling then you will have to consider the long term future of your relationship.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 15:09:33

And it was me who supported him through the final year of his degree and the six months after before he sucame to reality and found a job.

nenevomito Wed 26-Jun-13 15:10:05

I understand completely you not wanting to upset your DS, but children learn from example and he will start treating you the same and will treat women like you are being treated.

If he's that unhappy at work, he could study in the evenings, he could really put in the effort to look for something else, but he's not, is he?

You wash his hair, you run his bath, your son delivers his breakfast to him.

Is that really how you see your life for the next 20+ years as that's what you're letting yourself in for as he won't change.

ChippingInWiredOnCoffee Wed 26-Jun-13 15:12:13

LouTwenty we were on a thread together the other day - was it one you started? Or was it about something random and unrelated??

I want to HUG you and make you see that you are wasting your life with this shit sad

You have gone from your father (he was no Dad), to a H who was a shit in his own way, to this wanker.

Your DS might think he loves him - but you are allowing him to grow up in a house where it is acceptable to treat a woman like shit - do you want this for your DS?

I understand that you want another baby (trust me, I understand!) but don't have one with him sad Your life would be utterly miserable.

Please - read what everyone has said. The way he treats you is awful YOU are worth so so much more.

What do you think anyone of your tutors would say if you told them everything??

RandomFriend Wed 26-Jun-13 15:13:21

Cushy job at the council, strictly 9 to 5, flexitime, 10 min walk from home

He is very lucky to have such a relaxed job!

ChippingInWiredOnCoffee Wed 26-Jun-13 15:13:57

Oh - did you start the thread the other day about not being sure if you wanted to teach or be a social worker?

Crinkle77 Wed 26-Jun-13 15:13:59

Making him breakfast in bed and washing his hair for him goes way beyond the call of duty. He is jealous of you and I think it will only get worse if you go to uni and end up doing a job you love. And please don't have a baby with this man. If he is unhappy with his life then it is up to him to sort it out. I would be going on strike if I were you. Why the hell should he sit there in bed like the king and expect his breakfast to be brought to him. Tell him to eff off. better still get rid

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 15:14:00

Chippingin - low carb! Hello!

ChippingInWiredOnCoffee Wed 26-Jun-13 15:15:31

There is NO point what-so-ever talking to him. He is an entitled arse who is treating you like something that he stepped in - this is way beyond 'talking'.

ChippingInWiredOnCoffee Wed 26-Jun-13 15:17:57

Hello smile

You have spent your whole life being told you don't have a brain - that you are too thick to make anything of yourself, that you deserve nothing...

It is shit - you clearly have a brain, a very good one puts my old addled thing to shame please, please use it to get out and make a better life for you and your DS, to show your DS that this isn't how to treat a woman, that this isn't how to have a happy life.... it just isn't and it's so fucking awful to think you have been treat like this your whole life sad

piratecat Wed 26-Jun-13 15:21:46

well everyone seems to be of the same opinion.

so what are you going to do.

you'd be better off on your own financially. or at least the same.

why are you living with a manchild?

waddlecakes Wed 26-Jun-13 15:22:22

''Dh did do a shit degree - Even he says that. it was an excuse to extend his childhood. he never even worked holidays. He did music performance. It leads to nothing. He thought his band would make it big. They all made it to the dole queue and have up.''

You want him to be supportive of you? Look how much contempt you show him, though.

He didn't make it to the dole queue. He took his ''shit'' degree and made into a job you disparage while living off it.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 15:29:10

Dh says it was a shit choice himself now. He wanted to do computer science but he says himself he was too lazy. And I was supportive while he did it. We lived off my savings, I stupidly bought him better equipment when he said it would help and sold my car to do so. I even wrote some of his assignments for him when he couldn't be arsed. I never pressured him to get a job when he graduated, I even called up record companies looking for jobs for him.

If that's not supporting, I don't know what is.

nenevomito Wed 26-Jun-13 15:30:27

So he did a degree he didn't really want to do because he was too lazy.

Too lazy to do what he wanted to study.
Too lazy to wash his own hair.
Too lazy to get of his backside and look for another job.
Too lazy to get his own breakfast.

There may be a pattern here.

BeCool Wed 26-Jun-13 15:32:32

Lou don't be distracted by waddle & co! You don't have to defend yourself to them.

have you read the rest of the comments upthread here?

Only read the first half of your op and 2 pages of posts.

Don't have a baby with this man.

You are only renting, just up and leave and get some accom for you and the child and carry on studying.

You don't need him. There are no 'lots of reasons' why you can't leave, only reasons that HE would like you to believe cos it suits him. Without you and your child there would probably be no tax credits coming in.

SunRaysthruClouds Wed 26-Jun-13 15:38:27

BeCool actually I think Waddle is encouraging the OP to stand back and look at it objectively and isn't just following the standard LTB bandwagon.

And that surely can't be a bad thing.

And OP I would second the idea that you have to clear your mind and look objectively at it all, then think of what you really want.

StillSeekingSpike Wed 26-Jun-13 15:39:27

Lou, I work at a council job (which I quite like but it's not what I imagined doing...)- I also have a chronic incurable autoimmune condition. AND I get up every morning, wash my own hair, get my own food and support myself.
How are you going to look after Little Lord Fauntleroy when you are working full time? Or even if you have another baby? Will you leave the baby crying while you wash this idiot's hair and get his breakfast? Will he be a committed parent? Or will he whine even more about you tying him down and ruining his life and how he can't sleep at night and the baby gets more attention than him?

DoesBuggerAll Wed 26-Jun-13 15:40:19

So he makes a (in hindsight) mistake in his choice of education. His mistakes are stupid. Yours are not your fault but your father's/your ex-Husband's/<insert random man's name here, in fact anyone but you>.

You supported him through uni with your? savings. Well done for saving whilst never actually having had a job.

Entitled? Someone is.

DoesBuggerAll Wed 26-Jun-13 15:42:40

I accept you shouldn't be waiting on him hand and foot but showing a little less contempt for him wouldn't go amiss. You can be sure he had picked up on your utter contempt for him.

I would have contempt for him too though, he's no catch is he.

ThreeTomatoes Wed 26-Jun-13 15:49:01

Oh.My. God.

I caught sight of "I run his bath, wash his hair." and had to read the post properly to check it was actually your H you were on about not a son that you were complaining about being too old to be mollycoddled or something..

This is just so bizarre!

Don't have a baby with him. jeez i dread to think..!

Does bugger all, is it your opinion that every working man must have his bath run and his hair washed by his mummy/wife?

SnookyPooky Wed 26-Jun-13 15:51:56

I also got as far as breakfast and hair washing, wtf?
Sorry Lou, you just can't have a baby with this person (sorry I won't say man). You sound like an educated and intelligent woman and no doubt he knows this and realises that you will one day have your fabulous career.

Once again I am amazed at at what I read on MN and the shit that some women put up with, what century is this?

Apologies for not giving you anything constructive apart from RUN FOR THE HILLS.

Hullygully Wed 26-Jun-13 15:52:06




DoesBuggerAll Wed 26-Jun-13 15:52:39

I have already said (more than once) that i do not think she should be running his bath etc. that is taking the piss.

AnyFucker Wed 26-Jun-13 15:54:30

I couldn't past "I wash his hair"

and I have read some fucked up shit on here

I have nothing to add to the advice above (MRA types aside)

AnyFucker Wed 26-Jun-13 15:54:44


Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 15:54:51

Doesbuggerall not that it is any of your business but my savings came from the sale of my marital home - which I bought with the inheritance my mother left me when she died.

And it's not in hindsight - like I said he wanted a few more years drinking time, he chose to do it as he was too lazy to do an IT relates degree.

My ex was an arsehole yes. My son also had some problems which meant it was best for him to be homeschooled until he was 8. You don't know the full picture as to why I didn't work.

I am hugely sympathetic to your situation - what an idiot he is.

You asked about others...

When I was about 29, I stopped work for a year to go to Law School. My then BF supported me wholeheartedly. He paid all the bills, even though he wasn't living at home much (away in the Navy). Moving on a couple of years, I had children and didn't work for 3 years - he supported me 100%. He also encouraged me to go back to work when I started going a bit loopy.

And then the situation evolved...he took voluntary redundancy last year. OK, he did have a good package, but wasn't working for about 6 months - I supported him then.

And now, we are both working, and earning exactly the same salary! We share the housework and the children...I do have a bigger burden at the moment as I am at home and he is working away during the week.

FWIW I have never ever washed his hair. And I have known him almost 20 years.

Good luck and LTB.

Hullygully Wed 26-Jun-13 15:55:56

Why DO you wash his hair btw?

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 15:58:33

Hully I don't know. He asks me too and will go in a sulk if I'm too busy.

I'm a twat I know. I wasn't like this before.

BeCool Wed 26-Jun-13 16:01:04

Lou maybe you just need to start by saying NO?

H "Will you wash my hair/bathe me/bring me breakfast in bed/fill in the gap ----?"
LOU "No."

BeCool Wed 26-Jun-13 16:01:56

so what if he sulks if you don't? It very much sounds like he will sulk anyway - just leave him to it.

Hullygully Wed 26-Jun-13 16:02:01

But WHY does he want you to? does he sit in the bath like a great big baby while you pour water over his head and massage shampoo in? <boggles>

Hullygully Wed 26-Jun-13 16:02:35

Yes, you are being a twat.

You have a real chance to get a great life here. Don't be a total mug and fuck it up.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 16:04:21

Jesus, while I was in here I recieved a text from him saying "I'm so hungry, my lunch wasn't in my bag" along with a big sad face. He'll have a sulk later.

Fucks sake. I forgot to put it in.

I've got a lot to think about.

AnyFucker Wed 26-Jun-13 16:06:02

So what if he sulks

Simply ignore him

With a bit of luck he will decide you are a shit wife for not washing his hair and fuck right off

Hullygully Wed 26-Jun-13 16:07:10

You haven't really got anything to think about.

You don't need to have a baby, you already live with a great big one that needs its hair washed.

Tell him to fuck off, do your degree and have a great life.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 16:07:21

Hully - yes, he does. He also moans like a toddler does if the water from the shower attachment is too hot or too cold.

Maybe I should feel contempt towards him.

He's learned it from his dad. He once told me his dad kept a stick by the bed, so when he woke up after a long lay in on the weekends, he bang it on the bedroom floor so that mil knew to bring him up his breakfast.

Ragwort Wed 26-Jun-13 16:07:55

This cannot be for real surely, I've read it all on Mumsnet now, you wash a grown man's hair shock

Please, please leave him now, it is not right to bring your child up seeing this sort of behaviour as 'normal'.

If your own grown up child was in a relationship like this, what advice would you give them?

Hullygully Wed 26-Jun-13 16:09:09

"maybe" ???????????????????????

Run ! Before you get trapped by a pregnancy from this man

Run. It will not get better and if you want a career you need a supportive partner and he is not it

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 16:10:08

If I had a daughter like me it would break my heart and I would do all I could to help her leave.

BeCool Wed 26-Jun-13 16:11:37

"So what if he sulks
Simply ignore him
With a bit of luck he will decide you are a shit wife for not washing his hair and fuck right off"

I think THIS ^^ is what I've been trying to say!

But just in case he doesn't decide to fuck right off, you can choose to leave the relationship yourself - no need to wait for him.

"I'm so hungry, my lunch wasn't in my bag" along with a big sad face.
OMG he really take no responsibility for anything in his life does he???

& Lou you gotta STOP making his lunch! And he can put it in his bag himself.

Do you see how you are enabling him to be this pathetic person by all this pandering you do?

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 16:12:57

On another note what do I do if both are names are on the tenancy agreement? We just signed for another year. I don't want to move as its ds is right in catchment for the best secondary school.

5madthings Wed 26-Jun-13 16:13:58

Get the fuck out of this relationship. Run for the hills, go to uni and start a good life for you and your son.

Just get out!

Hullygully Wed 26-Jun-13 16:14:05

Tell him to move.

Stop doing anything for him, he'll soon get fed up and move back to Mummy's.

SunRaysthruClouds Wed 26-Jun-13 16:16:59

Hmmm I think I am changing my mind and am jumping on the LTB bandwagon too.

Unless of course you feel you can completely re-educate him because he surely needs it. I think there must be an element of enabling by you here though OP....

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 16:18:29

Hully - she would have him back like a shot.

She still gives him £200 a month spending money. When I first met him he was going back home in the uni holidays (rent free) and would sit on his arse playing Xbox weeks on end while they treated him like a child. He was 26.

I'd laugh in my ds face if he tried to do that in his 20s.

Hullygully Wed 26-Jun-13 16:19:34

There you go - sorted!

LittleMissGerardButlerfan Wed 26-Jun-13 16:22:44

I think you know this already but he is never going to change!

Only you can decide whether to leave or if you are willing to be unhappy?

I know it's not that simple bitter voice of experience

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 16:23:27

I am torn between thinking sod it and trying to hash it out with him. To be honest, if I feel like I want to leave anyway, what have I got to lose?

He was actually worse when we first lived together. He would play on his Xbox all day, expect to come off when his dinner was ready and then go back on it again. He said he needed alone time for at least 6 hours a day.

That was over very quickly, I promise you. He grew up when I gave him a few home truths over that and he doesn't play it at all now.

You do sound contemptious of him understandably, and you are, to a certain extent enabling him. You don't have children with him. What has kept you there?

I am going to do a degree which will give me a career in health and social care. Am deciding between social work and social science. It will lead to a job. My thoughts were I could have a child while I studied and then when I had a full time job it would be of nursery age.

Please listen to me. Doing a degree in social work is hard. I don't know the stats but a lot of couples split up while one is studying social work because the course forces you to be reflective and also teaches a lot about dysfunctional dynamics. I myself ended my bad marriage 3 months before starting mine because I knew it was coming and I felt like I couldn't cope with trying to manage all the crap at home with a social work degree. I was right. It's extremely intense and hard work and not to be attempted with a small baby and shit marriage. Trust me on this.

Plus, it would be a very selfish act to have a baby with an abusive man just because you want one. And very foolish. You would be tied to him forever.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 16:27:06

Stability for ds. We moved 500 miles when I finally split with his dad (we are now actually closer to where his father works away during the week).

It's the thought of turning ds life upside down really. And I do love dh.

And also, what do you plan to do with the baby while you are studying? Social work degrees are literally full time and the rest.

ThePlEWhoLovedMe Wed 26-Jun-13 16:32:51

I would like to write more but unfortunately I fear it will lay on deaf ears. You have gone from one abusive relationship to another. What you describe is FAR from normal. Your son is seeing all this.

And I do love dh.

But really, why? What is there to love? He needs several hours a day to relax hmm, sulks if you don't wash his hair or make him breakfast in bed or remember his packed lunch shock, moans about the water temperature of his shower. Crikey, even toddlers are not such hard work!

I really would have contempt for an adult like this, not love.

Normal people, if they or their house slave forgets their lunch, pop to the shop/canteen and buy something. They don't whine passive aggressively and sulk about it. He's just a fucking manchild.

HardlyMotherTheresa Wed 26-Jun-13 16:37:39

:-( Get out now at any cost. However hard it is now, it will be easier to separate now than in 10 years time and it won't get better.

Since reading MN I have discovered how others do it btw: Count up hours of free time each has a day and make sure it is equal. If you are studying/ housekeeping then that is just as valid as his work.

Please please please don't have a baby with this man-child.

I never say LTB but I do say it here. Sorry.

Lancelottie Wed 26-Jun-13 16:38:02

Bizarrely, this thread has given me the urge to go and wash DH's hair while he still has any. Mmm, hot soapy nekkid man...

Trouble is, he's at work. There might be raised eyebrows.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 16:40:42

Ehric - that's why I am considering doing the social science degree with the OU instead.

If I had have lost the baby I was pregnant with this year, I was going to take next year out, then do an acess the year after then uni. Would have been perfect for ds starting secondary as well.

But now I was thinking OU degree off the bat and I have interviews for work placements to compliment it next week - volunteer work in witness protection, appropriate adult that kind of thing.

HardlyMotherTheresa Wed 26-Jun-13 16:41:22

Just have to confess to hypocrisy: your DH sounds just like mine and I wish I had someone tell me to LTB 20 years ago. After 15 years of making someone's breakfast and realising they have never so much as made a cup of tea in return, it's difficult to not feel that one's life has been wasted on someone who really wanted a housekeeper. Also, have you ever been ill? Does he care for you then or does he still expect you to be on duty? I have found that the toughest lesson of all.

Why do you want a child with this man?

What career comes from a social science degree?

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 16:44:26

Hardly - he was shit when I had a mmc. Told me to stop whinging and cheer up while I was waiting to miscarry. When I was pregnant and had hg, all he did was moan that I was too sick to do anything, told me to shut up about feeling sick all the time.

Can I also suggest (as sensitively as possible, which is not much, sorry) that losing a pregnancy can make us a bit irrational about getting pregnant again? (Been there, done that) it's really best to take some time out and make sure it's really the right decision.

X post.
Come on! Listen to yourself. Don't have a baby with him. Jesus.

waddlecakes Wed 26-Jun-13 16:45:44

OK, so you got savings by selling a house that you got from having been given an inheritance.

Sorry, but you're 34 and have never worked. I doubt that getting a degree will inspire you to do so now, it sounds like an excuse for putting off actually having to work, and in the mean time, it's easier to garner sympathy on Mumsnet re doing way too much for a demanding man, whilst not actually even really considering leaving him because you know he is and always will be your sole source of income, because you can't bear the thought of jumping ship and having to find a third man to act as a father for your son.

Sorry - there, I've said it. Won't be popular, but the more I read, the more I feel I'm right.

AnyFucker Wed 26-Jun-13 16:46:02

ehric here

AnyFucker Wed 26-Jun-13 16:46:51

Lou...are you pulling our plonkers ?

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 16:47:46

From the people I have spoken to at careers advice and the tutors at college and on the OU advice line, lots within health and social care. I am combining some law units and criminology. I want to go into youth offending mainly, this degree covers that, as does the other qualifications I have done so far. My tutor is being very helpful with trying to get me a placement at a young offenders institution where he works as an assessor.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 16:52:10

Anyfucker - the OU courses I am looking at are either social science and criminology or another one (was just told about it today by my tutor, name escapes me, but is similar) or the one I can do at my college is a foundation degree in social care, level 4 and 5 are done at my college, level 6 is done at St. Marys in Twickwnham. Or, an access to social work course for a year, then a social work degree.

Am having a proper meeting with my tutor and the tutor who runs the access courses and the foundation course Friday to discuss andante my final decision. They have been really helpful, they know what's happens re miss carriages his year and have been great.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 16:54:15

But whatever I do, I'll always be more employable than when the chip shop said I was under qualified!

EliotNess Wed 26-Jun-13 16:55:26

how on earth did that start?

Do his friends know this?!!

solarbright Wed 26-Jun-13 16:56:22

I'm really unclear on why you would stay with him? Other than he pays the rent? He's a slob, he's a drain on your time, he rubbishes your dreams, he's a massive pile of self-pity.

You and your DS would be much better off without him. You will struggle financially for the term of your course but you will do well in the end. And you won't have to spend your precious time cleaning up after a grown man. Be sure to teach your DS how to make his own breakfast, and lunch, and dinner. He will be a better man for it.

I'm not even going to mention having a baby with him, because you MUST see how insane that plan is. If you think leaving him is tough now...

BeCool Wed 26-Jun-13 16:56:36

waddle he isn't her sole source of income. His wage covers the rent only. They get housing benefit, some tax credits and her ex pays maintenance!

OP states in her first marriage she lived in isolated rural Scotland, her H travelled for work and she had a young child. Just where/when/how was the OP supposed to work? Is it all SAHM's who get your wrath for 'never working'? Or just the geographically isolated ones?

Alibabaandthe40nappies Wed 26-Jun-13 16:56:53

Lou I'm new to the thread, I have just read it start to finish.

You in cloud cuckoo land. About your relationship, about trying to slot a baby in among studying when you already have a child who needs you and no support from your husband.

You need to have a serious think about your priorities and make some tough decisions.

Squitten Wed 26-Jun-13 16:57:19

Dear God.

Whatever happened to you in life to make you think that this is what you deserve?

So he's a lazy, contemptible shit day to day.

Was horrible to you when you lost your baby.

And you still love him why?

Pilgit Wed 26-Jun-13 16:58:59

Doing a job you hate is soul destroying and more so if you feel you have no choice. He seems entrenched in his position that because he is doing something he loathes this justifies him not taking on any more work that he loathes and because that is the pattern he learned was normal as a child he feels justified in his position. Saying I understand where he is coming from doesn't make it right though. He needs to stop seeing it as a competition about who has a worse time of it. He also needs to start valuing your contribution to the household - yes he earns the money but you take care of the household and this means he does have a nice home to come back to, food to eat etc and doesn't have to think about it. This is not to say that he shouldn't do basics (far from it) and he should pick up after himself and not add to the OP's work load.

When you love someone you enable them to fulfil their dreams - irrespective of whether yours have panned out or not. I am afraid to say that you have enabled his laziness - writing his essays so he could get the degree, ffs, what were you thinking? It is one thing enabling your partners dreams but doing it for them because they can't be arsed? No, if you want something that much you get off your arse and do it - especially if someone is financially supporting you. You continue to enable his laziness by giving in to his sulks. Just ignore them as you would with a small child (why would you want a baby with this man when he basically is one?)

All may not be lost for your marriage - perhaps making a plan together about how he can be happier in his work as well as you doing your degree is a way of addressing it? If he hates his job, what is he doing about changing that? IMO you should definitely go and do your degree and plan for your future. If he loves you he will support you and be happy for you and revel in how happy being fulfilled makes you.

You say that you love him, yet the way you write about him is full of contempt. Yes, there are a lot of very good reasons to feel contempt towards him but if you are going to find a way forward you will need to find some respect for him - and before anyone says anything - he needs to earn that respect. I am not sure if that is possible though, only you and him know that. Couples therapy may be a useful tool.

5madthings Wed 26-Jun-13 17:01:46

The op also home educated her son till age eight, so provided three years of 'schooling/education'.

But op you need to get out, imagine how shit you will feel in twenty years time when YOUR son is treating his wife like shit... He will have learnt it from the relationship you are in. Get out this man is not a role model to your son or a father figure. How much does he see his actual dad? (you mention being nr to where he works now)

nilbyname Wed 26-Jun-13 17:02:57

Some questions

From the sale of your house do I presume you have some savings?

Would he agree to a trial separation?

Would he agree to counselling?

You say you love him, but do you really love someone who can treat you so badly?

AnyFucker Wed 26-Jun-13 17:04:42

Lou, I am not doubting your career pathway

I am struggling to understand how any intelligent woman can be so ridiculously servile to a man in this country, in this century.

Figgygal Wed 26-Jun-13 17:06:23

I have to ask why do you need to study more? can u not go get a job or at least try? Then u can be financially independent if you do split up?

BeCool Wed 26-Jun-13 17:07:01

nilby the savings (inheritance > house > house sale > savings) were spent supporting OP & H while he was completing his shit degree.

ThreeTomatoes Wed 26-Jun-13 17:07:27

Eliotness I was thinking the same thing! grin

Lou can I please recommend a good therapist/life coach.
I can see that you are not mentally ill but you obviously have huge self-esteem issues, that need dealing with.
And please, for the love of all things holy, do not have a child with this man sad

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 17:10:45

Anyfucky - sorry! It's just that you tell people social care/social science and they think it's wiping arses or being woo for a living.

Nilby - nope not much savings now, just a couple of grand. Exh fleeced me in divorce (long story) and I used the rest to live on for a year/pay deposits/rent/pay for my college course when I first moved here, claiming housing benefit is a relatively new thing since savings were depleted and dh got a job.

AnyFucker Wed 26-Jun-13 17:13:05

Did you see my link, Lou re social science degree ? smile

I really believe you should dump Whiny Fuckface and get on with your degree. In fact, forget OU and do the faster track. You will get help with childcare etc and no more servility to a prick like your husband

Patosshades Wed 26-Jun-13 17:13:38

Can you really not see how BAD this really is OP?

Uprooting your son to escape this arse of a man is the least of yours or your childs worries.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 17:15:39

And for people saying don't have a baby - I know, I know. I am on the pill.

But I only miscarried in May, at 14 weeks, so I am still so raw from it, I am still devastated.

BOF Wed 26-Jun-13 17:17:15

Loutwenty, I think you should listen carefully to what waddlecakes is saying. Then, when you've stopped laughing, you should leave your icklebaby husband and do your degree.

Although I'm tempted to say LTB, it sounds as though you would be happy to stay with him so long as he changes. Well, the only way he's going to change is if you stop enabling him. Sit him down and say that from now on you will not be providing breakfast in bed, if he wants breakfast he can bloody well get up and make it himself. You will not be washing his hair - either he washes it himself or it remains dirty. He needs to start pulling his weight around the house. Make this non-negotiable, and fergawdssake just STOP doing these things for him. He won't starve. If it's a deal breaker for him, and you end up splitting up, well, I doubt if he'll find another sucker woman who would be happy to serve him this way! His loss. He needs a wake-up call.

In the meantime, concentrate on your future and your education, and bringing up your son to be independent and capable - ie, unlike your DH!

Ragwort Wed 26-Jun-13 17:21:25

I don't understand how you even want to have a sexual relationship with someone like this - at what point during the hair washing and serving breakfast in bed do you actually feel sexually attracted to him? hmm

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 17:25:20

Oh Ragwort, it gets better, he has a low sex drive, so that doesn't happen a lot either.

Christ, I bet you lot are clamouring for him.

I will have it out with him, then leave. Give him a chance to change? Possibly, but I can't go on like this.

I habe had a horrendous three years, it's been hard to see though the fog.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 17:26:03

And I would fucking murder my ds if he expected this of a woman.

BeCool Wed 26-Jun-13 17:27:55

you've had a horrendous 3 years - but you've only know your H for 2.5 years sad

It doesn't sound as if you've ever been happy with him - do you think he's the rebound guy afterall?

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 17:30:42

The last 6 months living with ex was awful - he hated that I wanted to move on, I was trying to make a like for myself in my old home city, spending weekends there (where I met now dh). He wanted to be the one living a glam life, shagging around, it suited him that I was stuck up there alone on a smallholding, he could look good and respectable in front of work collegues. He stole from me and made my life hell.

DoesBuggerAll Wed 26-Jun-13 17:32:44

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 17:35:28

I thought I had fallen in love (I did fall in love) when I met dh. I'd been alone for so many years in my farce of a marriage (i found out when I was 4 months pregnant with ds that ex had a thing for prostitutes).

Before ds was born we were in separate rooms, but I had just bought a house and land with my mothers money, I was young, ex was older and powerful family, I was told I would lose ds so I stayed, for years. I sat on that farm and did nothing but look after ds and grow veg.

Then I met dh, the only man I had spoken to in 10 years who wasn't a 60 year old farmer.

We do have moments of happiness, believe it or not, hence why I do everything to have a quiet life.

Blistory Wed 26-Jun-13 17:37:02

You do know that this isn't ever going to work for either of you ?

He needs some time on his own to grow up and mature. You need some time on your own to prove to yourself that you can stand on your own two feet.

You control his finances, you run his bath, feed him in bed, he sulks, takes money from his mother, moans about responsibility.....sounds like he acts and you treat him like a teenage son.

What part of that is healthy for either of you ? You provided each other with support when you both needed it but seriously, time to move on with your life.

BOF Wed 26-Jun-13 17:40:14

Also, read DoesBuggerAll's posts, have a good think about them, and after you've said a little prayer for such a sad and damaged little man, leave your icklebaby husband and do your degree.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 17:41:27

Does- bloody hell! if you must know, my mother's money was her own. She was a professional and made good buy to let investments in the 80's as well as being from a fairly privileged background herself. My dad was in the air force in the 60s, but then a lowly mechanic until he retired - is that good enough for you?

I am not a man hater.

ChippingInWiredOnCoffee Wed 26-Jun-13 17:42:41

Lou - that isn't enough sad Just leave him. You deserve so much more - why can't you believe that? Your DS? Of course he's going to grow up to be just like his step father - why wouldn't he? Doesn't he deserve more?

Send that stupid bastard back to his mother and get on with your life -you are perfectly able to make it a good one for you and DS, why are you choosing not to?????

BettyYeti Wed 26-Jun-13 17:43:13

So you asked how it would work with others. I work full time with a pretty full on job . DH has a flexible job, and has been a SAHP. Our general approach is that there should be equal contribution. If there are things that need to be done when we are both at home, I would expect that we share these. If there are things that could be done when DH is at home and I am not (or am working at home), I would generally hope he would do this subject to looking after the children which comes first. Our DC are now school age and when DH was a SAHP recently he did sometimes meet up with people or go to the cricket or some other hobby when they were had school. I had no problem with him doing that but would then expect to have a bit more leisure time myself to make up for it. Clearly it is not quite that scientific in practice!
If he was studying, then whether i would see it more as a hobby or as a contribution to the family would depend on the purpose of the study. Some people do study as a hobby rather than as a means to an end, and if it was that kind of study and he did not get much done during the day i would be quite miffed if I then had to spend my weekends doing half the housework after working all week. if it is a means to a better job, then I think the study should be treated in the same way as work or childcare so would expect to share tasks when I am in.

If you are minded to stay (and I think you are on to a loser here), I would explain to him very clearly that the study is leading to you getting a decent job and once you getthat job he will have the opportunity to consider a career change/retraining as you will be able to financially support the family (as he is currently doing), but in the meantime he has to view your study as akin to work and help out more around the house.

I think the hair washing is shocking btw and is the main thing that makes me think there is zero chance of an attitude change. I can at least see that you making his breakfast etc saves him time (even though it is still outrageous), but you washing his hair does not save him any time as he still needs to be there, and it can only be about him wanting you to be subservient.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 17:43:17

And the only input my ex put into my martial home was to gamble most of it away and borrow against it for sums he couldn't repay.

ThreeTomatoes Wed 26-Jun-13 17:45:12

My 9 yo dd washes her own hair.

Does your son?

<<sorry, i can't get over it>>

ChippingInWiredOnCoffee Wed 26-Jun-13 17:46:22

There are some posters with odd agendas - don't keep justifying yourself to them, they are only here to stir up trouble.

nenevomito Wed 26-Jun-13 17:47:13

What BOF says. All of it.

lottiegarbanzo Wed 26-Jun-13 17:48:20

Lou, I read your other thread about 'settling' and being upset DH wasn't interested in your travel stories and, while i could understand you - at 34, wanting another baby and a step-dad for DS - settling for an unsatisfactory younger man, what I couldn't understand was why an apparently attractive 25-yo (when you got together), would 'settle' for a woman who didn't really love him and just saw him as providing stability. You've just explained very fully. He's a lazy-arse who wanted a slave.

DoesBuggerAll Wed 26-Jun-13 17:48:55

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

lottiegarbanzo Wed 26-Jun-13 17:51:56

My advice there was get some friends and set DH some conditions and deadlines - a staged ultimatum. That stands but I'd be making the ultimatum short and demanding, then sending him back to his mum. Your son will be much happier and respect you more, long term.

donnab1983 Wed 26-Jun-13 17:52:21

Maybe just the threat of leaving/chucking him out might give him the nudge he needs to sort himself out?

BOF Wed 26-Jun-13 17:53:33

Do you need a cuddle, DoesBuggerAll? sad

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 17:58:48

Does, i like you being here, you are actually providing me with some much needed entertainment.

I wondered when you would pounce on my benefits.

Would you like me to send you a bank statement?

Also, I am going to buy some wine at the weekend, the money might be out of tax credits or housing benefits, I don't know as they are muddled in my account, but is that ok with you? Thought i'd better check first.

BOF Wed 26-Jun-13 18:01:16

He's sad because he hasn't got a nice lady to wash his hair, and his mummy didn't love him. He needs our compassion.

nenevomito Wed 26-Jun-13 18:02:42

Does, shouldn't you be watching or entertaining your kids or something while you wait for your wife to get home from work?

waddlecakes Wed 26-Jun-13 18:15:05

I don't hate SAHMs. I dislike people who disparage other peoples jobs despite never having had one themselves. And its not just her husband - she refers to her father as a ''lowly mechanic'' a few posts back.

Based on this, and based on the fact that she obviously holds her mother in better regard than her father, and her mother came from an well-off background and only made her money doing buy to let, and also based on the fact that social work in relaity is an extremely tiring, difficult, ''dirty hands'' job, I can almost guarantee you that this OP will not be working, and that the studying is simply something she enjoys and a way of justifying flitting from one provider to another.

MissStrawberry Wed 26-Jun-13 18:15:56

Sarcastic comments like that at 5.58pm are going to get you nowhere if you seriously want help with the mess your life is in.

Do you?

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 18:26:27

Umm.....the 'lowly' mechanic was actually in response to Does and the comment that my father must have had something to do with my mother's money. I was pointing out that she was the one who had made money - before and after she met him. He was a mechanic - it was her who made investments and made lots.

All sarcastic comment are directed at him/her. I am sorry I claim benefits, but at least I am studying for a career - I could just be claiming JSA until I got a job in a shop. I figure when I get a job, it will be far more than minimum wage - I will make up the tax I would have paid.

waddlecakes Wed 26-Jun-13 18:29:19

''I am sorry I claim benefits, but at least I am studying for a career - I could just be claiming JSA until I got a job in a shop. I figure when I get a job, it will be far more than minimum wage - I will make up the tax I would have paid.''

Yeah! Or you could be doing the course part-time/by distance whilst getting work, no matter how ''lowly'' in something relating to your field, thus getting hands on experience of the job and/or context, whilst also being financial independent and free to leave a man you clearly neither respect nor want to be with.

donnab1983 Wed 26-Jun-13 18:30:13

Lou I don't think you should have to justify your financial situation, you were only asking for advice on your husbands ways smile

OxfordBags Wed 26-Jun-13 18:30:34

Ironic comments from someone called DoesBuggerAll, hmmm hmm Also unhelpful, pointless and spiteful.

OP, wake up and smell the coffee! This is a man who gets more upset about his packed lunch being not being in his bag than he does you having a miscarriage! What has gone so wrong in your childhood that you would demean yourself to stay with a sociopath like this?!

You know all this doing stuff for him like packed lunches, washing hair, etc., is a proper psychological coping tool, don't you? You are giving the love that YOU so desperately and crave to somebody else, in the hope it will be reciprocated. You don't know how to get it any other way. Please find a way to get it that doesn't involve you lowering yourself to the status of a slave.

And I reiterate, you staying with this man virtually GUARANTEES that your Ds will grow up to be like him. How will it not? He is learning, every day, that men act like this, and women let them (and should let them, he also learns from you). You might be positive and loving to him, but what he's learning about how to treat a woman doesn't come from that, it comes from what he sees. And if it's what we're getting a glimpse of, he will grow up to be a pathetic, whining, irresponsible manchild misogynist who treats women like shit on his shoes, and when they lose a child, it is less important than him getting breakfast in bed. You say you would hate for Ds to emulate this man, so stop teching your son that his future female partners should act like you!

BOF Wed 26-Jun-13 18:31:01

Lou, you are allowing yourself to be distracted from decent advice here by focussing on defending yourself from moronic opinions. I think that you need to tune some posts out and concentrate on working out what is useful to you in this thread. You are under no obligation to engage with every single poster.

waddlecakes Wed 26-Jun-13 18:34:32

No actually BOF, the advice from everyone is all the same: leave the guy.

It's just some people are trying to look a bit deeper at underlying issues.

Or would you prefer to have read 10 pages of ''OMFG you wash his hair?????? What?! His hair?????''

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 18:35:54

Waddles - I am fully qualified in level 2 health and social care with distinctions now. Yes, I could get a job - would probably be in a care home or a youth group. You need level 3 for the really good jobs with prospects.

After talking to my tutors, my best bet is to study, while doing placements to gain much needed experience (fwiw, I have loved the dirty, hands on one I have done with offenders so far and can't wait to do more - been emailed this afternoon about an amazing placement opportunity with drug rehab).

My son still needs after school care/taking to school as he has some special needs, so any job I got now would have to be cost effected to that or part time. I will be having him all summer holiday too as his father has taken on work abroad.

I am not a scrounger, I have thought this all through and taken advice. Studying to a higher level is the best bet for my future, and believe me, I will be working.

Hullygully Wed 26-Jun-13 18:37:30

Perhaps the fact that you bother to answer StupidFuckAll and Wankercakes with a degree of seriousness illustrates why you put up with total shit from HairWashTosspot

BOF Wed 26-Jun-13 18:37:39


Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 18:37:45

I am going to hash it out with him and give him an ultimatum.

I am not scared of being on my own, so be it.

Hullygully Wed 26-Jun-13 18:39:04

Leopards and spots

but if you must go through the motions...

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 18:39:09

BOF and Hully - I don't know why I feel the need to defend myself. I'm not some feckless scrounger, I am trying to do something for myself that's all.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 18:40:30

Hully - I think I do have to. Just have it out with him once and for all.

Then he can go, whatever. The posts re ds have made me think, I don't want ds to keep seeing me unhappy.

Hullygully Wed 26-Jun-13 18:41:15

They are just waggling their little wieners frantically in the wind, desperate to release some venom

Do think better of yourself.

MissStrawberry Wed 26-Jun-13 18:56:53

Your DS is learning that men are superior and woman are skivvies.

waddlecakes Wed 26-Jun-13 19:05:14

''Yes, I could get a job - would probably be in a care home or a youth group. You need level 3 for the really good jobs with prospects.''

What does that mean? That you don't give a shit about getting hands-on experience, just want to skip straight from a thousand years of books to pushing paper? You're right, we don't have enough management with no experience of the actual job around.

Loutwenty Wed 26-Jun-13 19:10:25

I am getting hands on experience through the placements I am doing. Lots of it, and lots more to come.

AnyFucker Wed 26-Jun-13 19:11:16

waddle wtf is wrong with you

of course higher-entry jobs are generally paid better with improved prospects than those with a lower-entry

you are just being nasty for the sake of it

AnyFucker Wed 26-Jun-13 19:12:12

Lou, ignore the shit stirrer, seriously

Blistory Wed 26-Jun-13 19:19:12

Look it all sounds great in terms of the study and career prospects but do you really think that you're not going to have to compromise on all of that if you're going to have a baby and stay with this man ?

He's younger than you, isn't he ? And he's not just younger, he's years behind you in terms of maturity. He isn't going to catch up -he really really isn't.

BOF Wed 26-Jun-13 19:34:46

God forbid a baby enters the equation: FOR THE LOVE OF GORDON, WHY?!

What do you plan to do with a baby while you are getting a degree?

Did you read my earlier post about feelings post miscarriage? It's very natural to want to get pregnant again very quickly but it's far more sensible to wait for a while never in this case

I am sympathetic though, honest. When I first got pg it was an accident and my now XH wasn't even living in this country! I wanted to get pg before we made arrangements for him to move here...madness.

DoesBuggerAll Wed 26-Jun-13 19:58:35

So your mother came from a wealthy background herself. She managed to keep hold of some of that wealth by becoming/continuing being a rent-seeker. She married a man who was only a lowly mechanic after serving in the forces (presumably not as an officer). You imply that the money she made was all hers and not belonging to the family unit (families can sometimes include fathers).

You have effectively never worked or stood on your own two feet financially and yet you berate your DH for trying to earn a living?

You left school at 16 and have few qualifications. Great, you are working on changing that but you are going to need some means of support while you do this. Ok so you LTB, how do you propose to finance your way through uni? In a few years you may have a degree but you will probably have an awful lot of debt. Can you not do this course part-time or even get a 'lowly' job in your chosen field and be sponsored through your employer.
The harsh reality is that after graduating you will be nearly 40 with very little actual work experience. You will be competing against a horde of younger graduates who will most likely have the advantage and who can also go for the sort of jobs that you couldn't afford to (they could live at home with parents and not pay rent, bills etc while getting a foot in the door). You'll be trying for the higher paying roles where your lack of experience won't help.

Your DH does sound like a kidult however you really are enabling him with your hair washing and breakfast making.

As for having a baby? Who knows. It doesn't sound like your relationship has much of a future but if you wait too long it'll probably be too late.

If you (and DH) had any sincerity when you made your vows the I suggest you both go to counselling. First though you must drop this idea that every is your DH's fault.

DameFanny Wed 26-Jun-13 20:01:22

I think to a certain extent you're trapped in your own head. Could you look at things this way -

Your son's moving up to secondary shortly - so an excellent opportunity to move to a new city without disruption

That city could be cheaper to live in where you currently are

That city could have an excellent university for you to enrol in

Your ex persuaded your old friends to ditch you, so moving away gives you a fresh start

Your ex is a Dick so you don't have to worry about making his life easier.

Get out the map. what's best for you and ds?

CatelynStark Wed 26-Jun-13 20:31:13

Jesus! There are some twisted, vicious bastards on here!!

OP, please ignore the goady twats. This man has turned you into a controlled wife. He needs a 7' sergeant major to have a little word in his shell-like, to take him down a few hundred pegs à la Maury!!

Get rid. He won't change. You can.

KeepCoolCalmAndCollected Wed 26-Jun-13 20:44:44

Why so many chips on your shoulder(s)? Are you past it and an under achiever? Come on be honest now.

AnyFucker Wed 26-Jun-13 20:46:22

...whereas OP has bundles of potential but only if she offloads the manchild

justgivemeareason Wed 26-Jun-13 21:01:48

I haven't read the whole thread but can't understand how you have never really worked, especially as you have only one child. I think it is a luxury to be able to study at your age/stage of life and good luck to anyone who can do it. But when one partner goes out to work they can be very resentful of the person who stays at home. This was the source of a lot of arguments between me and my ex. We could never see each other's point of view.

Having said that, the way you treat him/he expects to be treated is verging on the creepy. I have never heard of anyone washing their husband's hair.

DoesBuggerAll Wed 26-Jun-13 21:57:47

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

34DD Wed 26-Jun-13 21:57:52

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

34DD Wed 26-Jun-13 21:59:35

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Fairypants Wed 26-Jun-13 22:16:57

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

5madthings Wed 26-Jun-13 22:22:16

Er fairypants disabilist language is not allowed on mnet. Its rather offensive tbh.

tribpot Wed 26-Jun-13 22:24:17

Personally I'd be tempted to fuck with his head a little bit. "I'm so hungry, I have no lunch <overblown sad face>" - I'd be tempted to see how long he can keep going at the 'me no able to feed myself' game.

I feel physically ill at the idea of him sitting in bed waiting for his breakfast like a king. Who in the name of fuck does he think he is? You're meant to bend your entire life around the fact he's got some piece of piss 9-5er at the Council? You've let him use you for your entire relationship. Coming out of an abusive marriage you were extremely vulnerable but now I think you can see you have more choices than you thought and this guy should definitely not be one of them.

I'm very sorry about your miscarriage, that must have been devastating.

DoesBuggerAll Wed 26-Jun-13 22:36:04

Why did my post get deleted?

AnyFucker Wed 26-Jun-13 22:39:07

Because it broke talk guidelines


RachmanenoughR Wed 26-Jun-13 23:41:19

Agree with Waddle.

DoesBuggerAll Wed 26-Jun-13 23:58:55

Anyfucker - yes obviously but what broke the guidelines? I don't recall putting anything offensive in it.

AnyFucker Thu 27-Jun-13 00:09:47

Being offensive is obviously 2nd nature to you, since you don't even notice you are doing it <shrug>

buaitisi Thu 27-Jun-13 00:17:04

Hi Op, I'm so sorry about your miscarriages and tbh I think you shoul leave dh but I understand your reluctance to because of ds.

You said you wanted to have a baby and do your degree through OU.

For now,could you try and get a p/t job and still do your degree through OU.

Maybe something in social care so along with your degree you have some experience too?

You would be making your own money, getting your degree and he'd have to step up around the house.
If he doesn't step up, you'll be in a better place to leave.

Please stop washing his hair and making breakfast in bed. He will find something to sulk about anyway. Just busy yourself and ignore it.

DoesBuggerAll Thu 27-Jun-13 00:23:59

Anyfucker - your username is offensive.

Really what did I say. I'm off to look at the guidelines.

AnyFucker Thu 27-Jun-13 00:25:22


DoesBuggerAll Thu 27-Jun-13 00:28:05

Nope. Just looked at the guidelines. There was nothing racist, homophobic or even disablist (that's not a word) in there.

I'm not a troll so I can only assume my post was deleted because it cut a bit close to the bone for the OP.

AnyFucker Thu 27-Jun-13 00:30:02

Nope, posts are not deleted for that reason

Of course, your ego would like that, but not happening

DoesBuggerAll Thu 27-Jun-13 00:47:09

I did say 'mumsnutters' perhaps that was it.

Really I don't know what it was. Can anyone educate me? It's somewhat unfair to not inform somebody of what rule they broke. How will I avoid breaking it in future?

suburbophobe Thu 27-Jun-13 01:26:26

Please don't hijack this thread and start your own.

Always love AnyFucker's straight-talking replies and love the name! grin

Tortoiseonthehalfshell Thu 27-Jun-13 01:51:15

DBA, please feel free to contact MNHQ and ask them for clarification of their Talk Guidelines.

Loutwenty, you're pretty astounding. To come out from under all of this shit, and be managing to do what you do, is astounding. But you're not a plant - you don't grow better if you're mired in shit - so like everyone else, I hope very much that you and your DS are able to find out how lovely life can be when it's just the two of you, and no whiny selfish little fucker is dragging you both down.

TweedWasSoLastYear Thu 27-Jun-13 08:10:01

So Lou , Are you going to stop serving this adolescent and start your degree?
Does he think he is royalty , with a team of servants to pamper to his whims?
I bet you do alot more than you have told us too , all the washing , cleaning , cooking, shopping, maintenance , gardening, bill paying etc.

Just stop . Today . you are so much better than being this mans slave . He is only out the house for 8 1/2hr a day , not long hours at all . he wont die if you stop picking his pants off the floor.

Try and avoid ultimatum statements , better to say things like " I will have to consider all my options if you dont change"

So Lou , what are you going to do?

Loutwenty Thu 27-Jun-13 08:35:14

Degree is not in question, never was,, I am doing one of them, just need to waiti until I can speak to the tutors properly tomorrow to decide.

We talked, not argued, until 3amast night.he is behind my studies, he doesn't want me to work and study, he doesn't mind paying the rent while I study and get placement exp. he says he didn't realise how much I did and to just ask him to do stuff, he was used to living in shit pits before met me so doesn't care about mess like I do.

Upshot is, I am going to stay with a friend from college for a few days, ds is at his fathers house tonight until Sunday night so I am using he opportunity to get some space and for him to have time to think if he will really change or if its just lip service and I told me that I'll be gone if things don't improve. And I do mean that, he knows I am serious on it as well.

Sorry, don't have time to reply more in detail am on a placement today so am rushing to get there.

Loutwenty Thu 27-Jun-13 08:37:06

Sorry, he meant I knew I was serious as I have sorted somewhere to stay for a few days, that has shocked him to shit.

TanglednotTamed Thu 27-Jun-13 08:41:13

Sorry OP, but I think he's saying whatever he needs to in order to get you to stay. Things won't change.

You have the chance to transform your life with your studies. Don't be held back by this loser, go the whole way and start afresh. I don't think you should have a child with him.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

I do wonder OP what you want from a relationship. Are you desperate for someone to look after? Not trying to be offensive, but just wondering where you're coming from - how on earth you got into washing his hair and making him breakfast in bed every day and why you didn't push him off a cliff long ago.

Loutwenty Thu 27-Jun-13 08:58:50

Tangled - like I said, if its lip service, it's finished. He knows that and he knows I'm serious. I'm not the kind of person who says something and doesn't mean it, I've never threatened to leave or anything before and not gone through with it. He was genuinely shocked.

larrygrylls Thu 27-Jun-13 09:00:28

From what I can read, the OP gets rent free accommodation from the relationship as well as help in caring for her son from a previous relationship. Sure, hair washing and breakfast in bed is a little strange, but, on the other hand, I suspect that, were the OP a man, the term "cocklodger" may have been aired by now.

In reality, OP, you have to consider the trade off between getting your degree and starting in a new career in your mid/late 30s versus just getting a job now. If it does not make sense financially, the degree is essentially a hobby for your personal fulfilment, which is great and not unimportant, but you cannot trade the "busyness" from your hobby against your husband's work, as his is not voluntary. If, in the long run, it does make sense financially, I would say go for it. However, then, how would you cope with a new baby? Would you expect your husband to be the SAHP? Or would you take additional time off?

If you want to stay together, you need to think of all the above and talk it through with your husband. In his position, I would be concerned about you doing the degree supported by me and then leaving with sparkling new career prospects as I badgered away in the same boring job. How would you manage your degree if you separated? Would benefits cover your and your son's expenses (plus alimony)?

Loutwenty Thu 27-Jun-13 09:00:51

Notgood - it's not that at all, it was just to have an easy life with no arguing or sulking. But I have come to realise life would be easier without him at all. So if he won't change his attitude with regard to the house I'm gone.

ChasedByBees Thu 27-Jun-13 09:04:24

I'm glad you have some resolve Lou as the relationship you've described sounds seriously abusive. I don't know how you can respect someone (let alone fancy) who acts pathetically helpless to the extent of expecting breakfast delivered, lunch packed and his hair washed shudder

Regardless of how this goes I think you are doing him a favour. Perhaps you should go on the freedom programme even if you stay with him? I don't think you're idea about what is a healthy relationship is quite normal, it might help you become clearer about what is acceptable and help you be firm in holding that line. Best of luck.

Loutwenty Thu 27-Jun-13 09:05:06

Further study does make more sense in the financial long run. Even if I were to have a child, I would earn more and be able to pay for child care when I finish in three years than working at a job with my qualifications now - all my wages and more would go on childcare with the sort of job I'd get now. I've done my resarch this year and spoken to tutors and career advice.

Dh and I spoke about it at length last night, he knows it makes sense as well.

Loutwenty Thu 27-Jun-13 09:07:40

Also, the placements I do and the volunteer work I have finally got interviews for nnext week may also lead to something and will give me far more varied experience anyway.

If they turn up - have been sitting waiting for the manager now for 15 mins!

DoesBuggerAll Thu 27-Jun-13 09:45:42

Larrygrylls - don't bother, I've pointed out pretty much what you've said but I've been censored for it. The tone of my posts is not acceptable apparently. The agenda here is to offer the OP unwavering sympathy whilst hurling abuse at the DH.

pointing out that the OP pursuing a senior position in a field that she currently has no qualifications in, racking up 3 years of university debts (probably 25k+ in tuition fees alone) and expecting the DH to support her through all this is not the kind of response she is looking for. As you say, turn the situation around and I doubt that the contributors to this thread would have the same opinions.

lottiegarbanzo Thu 27-Jun-13 10:05:31

Lou, remember, what you need is friends. Not critics. You don't need to justify yourself all the time. People who are hostile towards you aren't going to change their minds, they just enjoy goading and watching you squirm.

Remember (and it would help if I could, the wording will be a bit off) but, 'May you have the courage to change the things that can be changed, the strength to accept the things that can't and the wisdom to know the difference'. Once you accept you can't change people who aren't interested in changing, you can let go of a lot of pointless stress, focus your energy on the things that are productive and have a much calmer, more fulfilling life.

Aussiebean Thu 27-Jun-13 12:40:36

It might be an idea to set down on paper his house hold duties. Monday Tuesday Wednesday he does the cooking and vacuums. While you do something else.

If you have it very clear each persons responsibilities he can't come back and say he didn't know it needed to bee done.

You will work out pretty soon if its lip service because his jobs won't be done.

In this duty rooster you should make it clear that bathing him and making his l

Aussiebean Thu 27-Jun-13 12:41:03


Making is lunch is not part of your duties.

Aussiebean Thu 27-Jun-13 12:48:03

Plus he can't complain because he agreed to it.

StickyProblem Thu 27-Jun-13 12:49:13

larrygrylls no man who made and served the OP with breakfast in bed every day, made and packed a lunch into the OP's bag, put a cooked dinner on the table every evening, and did all the housework and childcare, would be called a cocklodger on MN. I don't have any threads to point to to prove this though. I wonder why...

BeCool Thu 27-Jun-13 12:51:13

YY Sticky

SuperConfused Thu 27-Jun-13 13:28:57

Just wante to input on what people do when one partner works and one studies. Dp went back to do further studies 18 months ago an is midway through. No dcs. I work a quite demanding job with lots of travel. It's a difficult career to get into and im lucky, and I love it, but it's never going to be amazingly well paid.

We try and split everything 50/50. He probably does slightly more cooking then me, largely because he's better than me. He's rubbish at remembering to do laundry, but better at most of the rest of the house stuff than I am. If anything, the fact that he's studying means his work is almost seen as more important than mine, in that this is a big career changing moment for him and he has to give it his all. I relocated to enable him to do this course, and I think when next we move that will mean my career priorities get taken into account a bit more.

I can't imagine being in the kind of relationship you are in, either your role or your dps to be honest. I mean, we had a conversation about the fact that it was probably expecting too much to always assume dp could be at home rayher than the library when arranging deliveries of things that need to be signed for. I don't expect him to keep the house because he's in it, he works really hard when he's there, as do you.

That being said, I think you need to think about what you want going forward. It's great you've raised these issues, but I think you need to be clear sulking is unacceptable. And if he does sulk, you may just need to put up with that so you're not giving mixed signals. This is not a great example to show your son. I hope it all works out.

larrygrylls Thu 27-Jun-13 13:46:36


"larrygrylls no man who made and served the OP with breakfast in bed every day, made and packed a lunch into the OP's bag, put a cooked dinner on the table every evening, and did all the housework and childcare, would be called a cocklodger on MN. I don't have any threads to point to to prove this though. I wonder why..."

Maybe true but the "childcare" is the childcare for her own son! Meanwhile he is working a min 40 hour week and paying for their home. The degree cannot be considered work, at least for now, as it has a negative financial impact on the household. In the long term it may be for the good of the family. However, that is assuming that they are still a family unit at that point.

Maybe she does too much for the equivalent man to be called a cocklodger....point taken...on the other hand, if your benchmark is equal free time, she has the majority of the free time in the household, which she is using to pursue her studies. Unless her chosen profession is exceptionally well paid, it will take a minimum of at least 6-10 years to break even compared to starting a job now, or at least pursuing a shorter course.

nilbyname Thu 27-Jun-13 13:56:31

op well done for hashing it our with him...but why does he get to stay in the family home and you leave? be very careful how you tread here.

larry you have a very low opinion of study, what a funny way to look at things. How should it not be valued? I find the "t cannot be considered work" a ludicrous statement. How is earning a degree anything but bloody hard work??!

nilbyname Thu 27-Jun-13 13:58:45

dba who took the jam out of your donut? I mean seriously, how can you criticise someone who is trying to better themselves through education, in a vocational field no less?! My mind boggles.

OxfordBags Thu 27-Jun-13 14:08:20

Nilby, for people like dba, threada like this only serve to make them feel superior through hoisting their judgeypants. Upthread, the OP gets slated for getting some benefits, then she gets slated for trying to better herself through gaining vocational education.

But of course, dba et al will never be able to see the irony in their 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' judginess through the enormous chips on their shoulder - the irony that they are purporting to try to help the OP (if only through making them see the 'truth') by engaging the very same lose-lose rhetoric that abusers use to put woman after woman in the situation the Op finds herself in. They just make them feel bad in the same ways that the abuser does.

Larry, as always a delight to see you spouting your cod-intelligent misogynist nonsense. The OP's OH has taken on 'her' son as his own, therefore, any childcare done for him is for their child. And her doing all the childcare and housework is equal to the work he does. In fact, I bet she does more and she doesn't get paid or any perks of employment. And I bet she doesn't enjoy it any more than he enjoys his job. Wat she does without pay or thanks allows him to work and to have the life he does have. He does not have some automatic right to a female skivvy to do all that for him. And you are presuming that she is able to study due to having swathes of free time. Most parents who study do so in the meagre amount of time they get to themselves; during kids's naps, or after they have gone to be, or rare times when family or friends might take them out, etc.

OxfordBags Thu 27-Jun-13 14:09:01

What, not wat. Apologies.

larrygrylls Thu 27-Jun-13 14:15:48


"Larry, as always a delight to see you spouting your cod-intelligent misogynist nonsense. The OP's OH has taken on 'her' son as his own, therefore, any childcare done for him is for their child. And her doing all the childcare and housework is equal to the work he does. In fact, I bet she does more and she doesn't get paid or any perks of employment. And I bet she doesn't enjoy it any more than he enjoys his job. Wat she does without pay or thanks allows him to work and to have the life he does have. He does not have some automatic right to a female skivvy to do all that for him. And you are presuming that she is able to study due to having swathes of free time. Most parents who study do so in the meagre amount of time they get to themselves; during kids's naps, or after they have gone to be, or rare times when family or friends might take them out, etc."

Always a delight to see you spouting your misandrist views, too (and, yes, "misandry" is a "real" word"). This one, though, has to take the biscuit. He does a job he dislikes in order that the OP can follow her dream. However, you see this as him getting "pay and perks" of employment. She would never be able to pursue her studies without him. I can just imagine you making the same argument against a woman who has taken on an eight year old stepchild, working a menial and disliked job so that her husband has the time to pursue an expensive degree which may or may not lead to a well paid job.

I guess that you do realise that most 10 year olds go to school and that University and school terms are fairly well matched? They are not at home, taking the odd nap. So, between 8:45 and 3:15 (at least, assuming you don't use breakfast and after school clubs) you are free to study plus do a little housework, shopping and cooking.

BeCool Thu 27-Jun-13 14:22:20

let's remember the OP isn't bitching about doing housework. She is complaining about doing ALL the housework, and cooking and her H's personal grooming also.

And Larry the H works 35 hours pw, work is a short journey away, he works glide time and he still doesn't lift a finger in the home or for himself and sulks if his DW doesn't cater to his every whim. In who's world is this ever OK? And more to the point, what kidn of person would expect another person to reasonably to all this for him? If the H was working double shift and 2 jobs it still wouldn't be OK to sulk if you P doesn't run your bath and wash your hair.

Whatever you do with your time, work, study, SAHP you need to contribute towards your life, your home, your personal hair management etc.

And that is all an aside anyway, as the H here will sulk, whine & moan if the OP doesn't run HIS bath, make HIS lunch and (probably) wipe HIS arse.

larrygrylls Thu 27-Jun-13 14:25:44


Yes that part is quite strange! Adults should bathe themselves. Sulking is not nice either.

They need a proper discussion. It is not the OP's god given right, though, for her husband to support her and her son while she pursues a degree. These things need to be agreed as a family, and the issues around them.

BeCool Thu 27-Jun-13 14:26:35

"He does a job he dislikes in order that the OP can follow her dream."
Um so not the case. He does a job he dislikes. He needs to work! His studies are over, now he works. It sounds as though this H would dislike any job he had. He doesn't work in order for the OP to follow her dream. The OP's situation isn't tied to her H working. His wage, in fact, doesn't even cover the rent.

If anything it is a little payback for the time the OP supported her H through his studies when they BOTH LIVED OFF HER SAVINGS!

Loutwenty Thu 27-Jun-13 14:27:43

I really didn't want to engage with anyone anymore who doesn't know the ins and outs of my life but seriously,

"He does a job he dislikes in order that the OP can follow her dream"

No, he does a job he dislikes because after hundreds of job applications and only being offered 3 interviews, this was the best job he could find. He would be doing a job of this sort if I was out of the picture, as all his friends who did his course are now doing similar, any good job they could find.

The point of my threat was that dh treats the house as a hotel and I feel like a housekeeper as I do literally everything. There have been threads in the past with SAHM talking about how to get their husbands to help - I am being ripped apart because I want to study and improve all our lives?

Getting more experienced and qualified in a bid to earn more in the long run (and yes, there are many jobs I can do, it's a vocational field, I am on my lunch break now on my placement, working alongside people who have the same qualifications I am working towards!) rather than making minimum wage for the next 30 years (and therefore continuing to claim some benefits) is a bit of a no brainer in my book.

nilby - he doesn't really have anyone to stay with. My college friend and I have a final presentation to prepare for monday anyway, so it makes sense if I go sand stay with her for a few days.

captainmummy Thu 27-Jun-13 14:28:13

Not wanting to get into the ins and outs of misogyny and misandry but can't help it....

Take the studying out of the equation. OP is a SAHM and has been since her ds was born, for reasons of isolation or others. SHe doesn't want to skivvy for her dh anymore, he is not a helpless infant. He did a degree which got him nowhere, and he actually wants to be a rock star. This is not OPs fault, tho he thinks it is, somehow... He is in a job he dislikes, because he is not a rockstar, but it pays the rent. OPs benefits pay the rest of the bills.

Now would you say LTB?

larrygrylls Thu 27-Jun-13 14:29:58


"Take the studying out of the equation."

Yep, and if my aunt had bollocks, she'd be my uncle...

captainmummy Thu 27-Jun-13 14:36:59

No not really, larry. It's the fact that she is studying that gets you. The fact that she is using her dh to fund her studying.
If she wasn't studying, jsut running the home like a SAHM does, you wouldn't be able to use that fact against her.

BeCool Thu 27-Jun-13 14:37:08

so the OP studies full time, is a parent and does everything in the house inc cooking all meals and all the cleaning.

It does sound as though these studies are enjoyed very much by the OP, they have given her a sense of self-worth she was lacking though out her life (how to put a price on that????), and she will eventually end up with a well paid job that will benefit the entire family. She now feels like an intelligent worthwhile person after being told all her life by family and EX that she was worthless and thick and stupid. She is engaging with her life, and trying to better herself, her qualifications and her job prospects.

Her H works 35h a week and can't wash his own hair without getting upset. When he rarely washes up, he lets the OP know he is "helping her out".

"So, between 8:45 and 3:15 (at least, assuming you don't use breakfast and after school clubs) you are free to study plus do a little housework, shopping and cooking."
Last time I attended University, attending lectures and tutorials, going to the library, writing essays etc - you know all the actual LEARNING stuff - was at least the equivalent of a FT job. Certainly not something you squeezed in between mopping the floor and scrubbing your lazy H's back.

MatersMate Thu 27-Jun-13 14:47:01

Lou I'm so pleased (and a bit surprised actually) that you've put your foot down.

I hope you both get something from your time apart.

Well done, stick your guns

AThingInYourLife Thu 27-Jun-13 15:05:26

As far as I can see you left an abusive relationship and hooked up with a younger man who has been supporting you and your son ever since.

At 25 without a non-working partner plus child to look after he could have taken bigger risks and had a much more fun life.

I think he has always been a meal ticket for you.

He sounds like a dick, but presumably the deal was that he looked after you and your son financially in return for being looked after by you.

If you had been a single parent there is no way you would have been doing all of those courses.

He has made your recent self-discovery possible with his hard work in a job he hates, and yet you despise him for it.

Here is how you can "win": stand on your own two feet - leave him and live independently.

Loutwenty Thu 27-Jun-13 15:11:15

How has he been a meal ticket when it was me supporting him on my savings at first while looking for any job I could get?

He's not the only reason I can study - most of the mature students on my course are single parents and most are off to uni in October.

Loutwenty Thu 27-Jun-13 15:14:56

And I started the course I am just finishing now a week before he got his job - he's only been working since last September.

MatersMate Thu 27-Jun-13 15:21:27

A thing do you really think his behaviour is reasonable? Really?

AThingInYourLife Thu 27-Jun-13 15:22:14

Well if you'd be better off without him, just leave.

It sounds like he'd be better off too.

MatersMate Thu 27-Jun-13 15:22:17

Seriously hmm at some of the responses on this thread

DoesBuggerAll Thu 27-Jun-13 15:23:45

Look, nobody is saying that DH's lack of housework is acceptable. It really isn't much trouble or effort to tidy a bit and bung some washing in the machine and then take it out and put it in the dryer. Cooking a meal now and again isn't a chore either. Being able to wash your own hair and wipe your bottom is also pretty basic stuff too.

I think that education is a wonderful thing, I really do. I've even had a bit of education done to me in the past. I went to uni and also later paid my way through evening classes to retrain.

My beef is with the contempt the OP seems to hold not just her DH but her ex-DH and Father in. She has described their jobs as lowly, her DH's own efforts at education a waste (cop out to say even he thinks so - probably says that due to being told that by you). Despite the contempt you hold him in, you expect him to financially support you through your chosen hobby/study despite never having earned a living yourself. Leaving aside the hair washing and general laziness it is you that is the 'entitled' one.

You are both better off without each other.

After yet another failed relationship or two perhaps you will start to reflect on your own actions and issues.

tribpot Thu 27-Jun-13 15:26:34

Loutwenty, I can't see how a grown man who's demanded you wash his hair is suddenly going to grow up and become an equal partner in this relationship. No-one with self-respect would have done this in the first place. I understand why you feel you need to give him this chance, having appeared to condone the status quo for years, but this is seriously fucked-up.

AThingInYourLife Thu 27-Jun-13 15:27:21

I don't think either of them are behaving reasonably or kindly to the other.

I think moving in with a young man just finishing college with his whole life ahead of him, after only six months, when you have a 9 year old child, is not at all fair on him.

Of course he feels resentful of the responsibilities he's been lumbered with.

The only wage earner in a household with a child?!

Fuck, that's the last thing I would have wanted at 25, particularly if the partner and child I was expected to support were basically strangers to me.

AThingInYourLife Thu 27-Jun-13 15:29:44

And if he was an independent kind of young man, well able to look after himself, there is no way he would have agreed to this set up in the first place.

BOF Thu 27-Jun-13 15:30:06

DBA- you are speculating. You must have misread all the earlier posts where it was made clear that you are in fact talking bobbins. I think you might need to go and chant some of your affirmations or something: "It's not my fault I can't get a girlfriend".

BeCool Thu 27-Jun-13 15:43:57

the H is now at least 28. He was 26 when he met the OP - hardly a "young man just finishing college".

And he still accepts £200 pocket money PM from his Mum - bless!

AThingInYourLife Thu 27-Jun-13 15:52:24

He was just finishing college when she met him.

And 25 is young.

So he was indeed a young man just finishing college.

And instead of being footloose and fancy free, able to follow opportunities, take unpaid work, network, and live the life of an ambitious young person in a competitive field, within a few months of meeting a woman with a child he had both of them to consider and provide for too.

Only the kind of 25 year old who still accepted money from his mother would ever go for something like that.

That was an important time for him, and the OP stifled him with her needs and her inability to earn any money.

BeCool Thu 27-Jun-13 15:56:25

I don't think this H was ever looking to take unpaid work and live the life of an ambitious young man - unless by ambition you mean lazy & entitled!

He wanted to be a rock star - and surprise, surprise he wasn't!

Still at least he still gets pocket money from his Mum!

"the OP stifled him with her needs" - how do you know this AThing?

Loutwenty Thu 27-Jun-13 15:56:27

He went back to uni as a mature student at 24.

He had worked on and off since doing a levels at 18.

His mum and dad wanted him to stop mucking about with his band and do something so he went back to uni to do the easiest thing he could so be could IN HIS WORDS have three more years drinking time before getting a job.

I didn't hold a gun to his head and make him move in with me and ds or to make him marry me.

BOF Thu 27-Jun-13 15:56:43


I think you mean that he used her to buy his equipment and then lived off her savings while he half-heatedly tried to set the music world alight.

Indeed, only a man who takes pocket money off his mother would do that.

Loutwenty Thu 27-Jun-13 16:00:12

Totally loving the negativity on this thread re my future career plans too - just left my placement with a glowing reference and the offer of a two day week placement with them from September and lots of training to compliment my degree - the last person they did that for us now back working there as behavioural psychologist.

BeCool Thu 27-Jun-13 16:01:30

Ignore the shit stirrers Lou - what you are doing with your studies is brilliant and it will change your world.

AThingInYourLife Thu 27-Jun-13 16:02:16

Well he didn't put a gun to your head either.

And you've done quite nicely out of the arrangement.

It doesn't sound like you like each other very much (for understandable reasons on both sides), so just call it quits.

And you should do whatever it takes to do this degree with placements etc.

This is your time, and you need to grab it.

Loutwenty Thu 27-Jun-13 16:04:00

His pocket money was supposed to be for all of us. Ex fleeces me and then wouldn't pay maintainance until he had to.

Dhs mother is so nice, she offered us £200 per month to help out.

I said no. I couldn't take her money. But dh does.

Timetoask Thu 27-Jun-13 16:04:04

I haven't read 14 pages of thread!!!
But I think that:
1- You started your new life with this man too soon, you didn't know him well enough.
2- You are not his servant! Breakfast in bed every morning? It really doesn't sound like an equal partnership. I really do not see you living with this guy for the rest of your life
3- Focus on your wonderful new career prospects. Do you really want to have a baby with this man?

Awks Thu 27-Jun-13 16:14:33

Try explaining to the behavioural psychologist why you are still with a man like this - that will be an interesting conversation in the tea room!

Seriously, just tell him to jog on and stop doing the daft stuff. He'll either suck it up after sulking for a bit or he wont and then you will know you have to leave.

Your uni work sounds brilliant, well done.

DoesBuggerAll Thu 27-Jun-13 16:17:40

BOF - lol.

I think my wife would have something to say if I got a girlfriend.

Lou - go for it. It really does sound as if you'd both be better off apart. Don't have a baby with him. I am quite sure he doesn't want one with you either.

ThreeTomatoes Thu 27-Jun-13 17:46:20

I can't believe some of the responses on this thread.

Those saying that the OP is using him and he's enabling her to do what she's doing, I'd say think again.

Although I suspect things might be different now what with funding cuts, I was much better off studying when I was lone parent. I had all my fees paid, plus a £250 grant each year - and a computer grant to pay for a new laptop at the beginning. All from the OU. I worked part-time, am a mum, and studied part time. Had a chunk of my rent paid in HB and tax credits too, of course.

I'm still studying (it's gonna take me 10 years altogether to get my degree, I'm 6 years in!), and working a lot more hours than I was then (not quite FT), am with DP and now have to pay all my fees .(Thankfully under transitional arrangements - the fees have risen astronomically). I was skint when I was an LP, of course, but I've been skinter as a couple tbh, though things are starting to look up as we've both now increased our hours/salaries.

OP you'd be better off without this manchild in so many ways.

solarbright Thu 27-Jun-13 17:51:09

I don't think you're any sort of scrounger and I think your career plans sound brilliant. You and your DS have a bright future ahead of you.

I'm still not clear why you're in this marriage??

AThingInYourLife Thu 27-Jun-13 18:11:47

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

BOF Thu 27-Jun-13 18:37:00

How tediously offensive.

AThingInYourLife Thu 27-Jun-13 18:59:27

Kind of like telling a man he's a loser who can't get a girlfriend.

Although that was just tediously lame.

5madthings Thu 27-Jun-13 19:05:14

athing she supported him for a year and a half whilst he studied and looked for a job.

She is also on the pill and not trying to get preg.

Op you do need to get out of this relationship, i hope the time at your friends helps you clear your head and you realise you dont need this man.

solarbright Thu 27-Jun-13 19:37:28

Still see no advantage to being married to this guy. Life without all the sulking and hair washing and making of breakfast in bed and general whinging would surely be better.

BOF Thu 27-Jun-13 19:42:52

It's one thing to take the piss out of someone derailing a thread with unfounded angst about the menz, and quite another to baselessly insult an OP who is trying to find support and advice in the Relationships section. That just smacks of cruel goading, and is totally against the spirit of the community. What exactly are you contributing, and why do you imagine anybody is interested?

captainmummy Thu 27-Jun-13 20:12:11

I've reported your post, athing. I think it was offensive and uncalled for.

Whocansay Thu 27-Jun-13 20:25:54

You sound as bad as each other, tbh.

You seem to be staying with this guy so he can fund your studying and possibly father another child. You don't seem to like or respect him. You mock his dreams of being a rock star and belittle the fact that he has to live in the real world and work, but you seem to think that its ok to follow your dreams an spend thousands on an OU course. I think you need to take hard look at yourself.

Oh, and stop making his fucking breakfast. You're doing neither him or yourself any favours by becoming his mother.

dontyouwantmebaby Thu 27-Jun-13 21:41:25

"I mainly stay for my ds. He never knew me and his father were not a 'proper' couple. We hid it well. So well, that no one knew, and when I finally left, ex h played the spurned partner and said i'd had an affair. He used to laugh about it to me, how sorry he's made people feel for him. As far as ds is concerned, I took him away from his dad. And now he has a stepdad who he loves, I can't take that from him to. He feels secure now. I can't hurt him"

Haven't read every single post but the above from the OP really stands out.

Lou I think if you continue in your current relationship 'for your ds sake' then you will be repeating history/previous behaviour patterns. I mean that in the sense that your relationship will be a sham, you'll be with someone not necessarily because you want to be but because you think its the best way to avoid hurting your ds. As you and his father did all those years before.

I think its wonderful that you've found your calling with your studies and I'd urge you to pursue them - but to do so in a way where you don't feel beholden to anyone else. That is so important. I agree with others that you should definitely not be thinking about having a baby the way your relationship currently stands. You clearly moved in together at haste and it's obvious that you're drifting apart in opposite directions. From what you have said here, it doesn't sound like an ideal partnership for either of you tbh.

I don't mind cooking breakfast for my dp, not every day though and certainly not if it was expected of me! I'd resent it and would feel like an unpaid skivvy. Please stop cooking him breakfast, he'll live. There's something to be said for the old adage, 'start as you mean to go on' although with the benefit of hindsight and all that...

Sorry but I've never heard of anyone washing their partner's hair (in a daily cleansing routine sense. I know we're all different, can maybe understand if done afterwards if things got a bit steamy between you both in the shower or something confused... but other than that scenario, NO WAY!). Oh unless they were ill or couldn't do it for some medical/injury reason. I think you and your dp need to have a very serious discussion about your respective futures.

I truly hope that you find a way to pursue your course and do what is right for you and your ds. Congratulations on your achievements so far!

Your father's comment about you being 'too thick' is deplorable! No wonder you chose a partner who said similar sad

suburbophobe Thu 27-Jun-13 22:29:26

the "childcare" is the childcare for her own son!


So you don't believe in blended families then...?

Childcare is something done outside of the home.

Parents take care of their own children, even if they are 2nd/3rd etc. relationships/marriages with all the children included.

suburbophobe Thu 27-Jun-13 22:44:24

And if he was an independent kind of young man, well able to look after himself...

Have you even bothered to read the thread? Never mind the OP.

This is a grown man that still expects mummy wife to run his bath, wash his hair, bring breakfast in bed 365 days a year, pack his lunch AND put it in his bag, and sulks if she doesn't ...

In what way, pray, is he "an idependent kind of young man, well able to look after himself"?

AThingInYourLife Fri 28-Jun-13 00:22:36

"In what way, pray, is he "an idependent kind of young man, well able to look after himself"?"

In no way.

That's my point.

If he was that kind of man he wouldn't have been interested in providing the money for a woman who was prepared to wash his hair for him.

"What exactly are you contributing, and why do you imagine anybody is interested?"

I'm contributing my take on the OP, same as everyone else.

I don't imagine people are interested, any more than they might be interested in what anyone else has to say.

But I do seem to be imagining a recent conversation on here using a lot of these same words. It's quite weird.

angeltulips Fri 28-Jun-13 08:49:14

I think it's pretty clear you got married waaaay too fast to this guy. If you were my IRL friend I would be telling you to leave & commit to a period of time alone to work on yourself.

The man child is neither here nor there - I think if it wasn't him it would be someone equally unsuitable.

GeekLove Fri 28-Jun-13 09:29:22

He seems jealous of the fact that despite your difficult circumstances you ate doing well in the path you have chosen. He sounds like mummy's little prince but also be wary of the fact he may well choose to sabotage your work. I came close to having that happen to me when I was still at school by a boyfriend who was jealous of my academic achievements. Tread very carefully as he is dangerous for your studies and career as well as setting a terrible example to your son.

There is something jarring about this thread- the guy is clearly a twat and the op finds him loathsome - I haven't heard a ppartner described with such contempt - so why not go? Let him find another hair washer and op can get on with her life...

Patosshades Fri 28-Jun-13 18:42:55

I wish you all the best OP, but for the love of god for your own self respect don't wash his hair or bring him his breakfast in bed anymore. I think I would actually die laughing if my DH suggested this and then sulked at no complaince.

Please set a very firm timeline in your head, if nothing changes kick him out the bathroom window.

AnyFucker Sun 30-Jun-13 16:16:26

OP, are you still around ?

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