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My DH has had an emotional affair

(470 Posts)
bullinthesea Tue 18-Jun-13 14:52:29


I don't post very much, but I am a frequent lurker!

Sadly, I have discovered that my DH has been having an emotional affair with a woman at his work. I have met her a few times over the years, and have always liked her! (Not any more!).

He was supporting me through a nasty bout of depression, and she was also having problems with family illness etc, and it seems they got too close, whilst chatting. He has always been the type to help others out. I think perhaps his 'knight in shining armour' came out when he came across this 'damsel in distress'!

There were emails/Facebook messages/texts, (the texts were all deleted, but in plain sight on our joint itemised bill!).

I discovered the whole lot on Friday night, and confronted him on Saturday morning.

I told him to sit down and tell me the truth. He says that it was just a load of flirty e-mails, and that he knew it was wrong when he was doing it, that it had all fizzled out and that he regretted it. He was very remorseful, and asked whether I could ever forgive him. I told him it was about being able to trust him again.

I found comments such as

Him "I must have been on your mind, was this email meant for Mr X?"
Her "you're always on my mind"
Him "mmmmmmmmmmmmmm!"


Her "thank you for earlier, I feel a lot better now !!"
Him "yeah, me too, can meet up on Wednesday for a follow up if it helps smile"

Her "is there anything else I can do for you"
Him "there may be a couple of things that may rise up"

Him " look at you working on xyz"
Her "can never be too prepared?"
Him "I am always prepared!"

She also kept asking him about his knees, on one occasion, they were organising some work time, and he responded with:
Him "should be good"
Her " what do you mean, SHOULD......... Are your knees hurting?"
Him "no, they have recovered, it's my calf, I pulled it running this morning"

Another message went:
Her "how are your knees and feet now"
Him "well, no carpet burns! How are you, we,ve been thinking about you?"

Then there was the time about six months ago, when he was having some funny turns. He had to spend the day at hospital having tests. He had already phoned into work, to tell them that he wouldn't be in that day, and yet I discovered that he'd emailed her from the hospital, to tell her about the tests and said that it was scary, there were loads of exclamation marks at the end (and on lots of the other emails too). He then emailed her again later about the results, with the same message that he had texted to me a few minutes prior, but he'd added extra exclamation marks on hers.

A lot of the content of these emails (and some others that I haven't written about) suggests that things may have got physical.

He strongly denies that it got physical, and says that he doesn't even find her physically attractive. He has said that it was exciting, and that she had made him feel good, as it had felt like she wanted him. He also told me that she had tried to kiss him at an Xmas do a few years ago, but he didn't kiss back, and had thought it was odd.

I asked if he thought she might have a bit of a thing for him, and he paused and said, "yeah, probably".

I have told him that I am going to get tested for STIs, just in case, as I'm not sure I can believe what he's telling me, and want to be sure that I haven't caught anything.

We both cried a lot, and he buried his head in my lap and told me he was so sorry over and over.

I do love him very much, and feel that we became distant, (although things had been much better recently), that we need to focus on our marriage much more (he agreed) and do our best to recover the strong love that we always used to have.

Only thing is, if it did get physical, then I would have to end the relationship.

I am so confused, I can barely concentrate on anything, and I haven't a clue where I'd start if I suddenly found myself single - I'm a sahm, my son is 7, and I am not bringing in any income at the moment, so he supports us all financially.

I just don't know what to do next.....

ballinacup Tue 18-Jun-13 14:59:26

I'm really sorry, but I think he's lying to you. Those messages do not sound like relatively innocent flirtation, they sound like two people talking about sexual encounters in a way that won't flag up on the company's internet usage policy sad

I am sorry, that does not seem very "emotional", sounds like they are referring to sexual encounters... sad

Something may Rise.
Carpet burns? Shagging on the carpet?
Knees? Positions? hmm

Imnotagilmoregirl Tue 18-Jun-13 15:04:09

Ok, I am no expert by any stretch... But by what you've written I would say it looks like it was physical. I would need to know, and I would keep probing, because eventually if he's lying he will slip up. Really sorry this is happening to you. Whatever you decide, you'll get support here xx

paperlantern Tue 18-Jun-13 15:04:43

It got physical. Tge knee joke seems to refer to carpet burns from sex.

Sorry sad

CajaDeLaMemoria Tue 18-Jun-13 15:04:48

These messages all refer to sexual encounters they've had together. They even mention carpet burn! He's taking you for a fool.

Tell him to tell you the truth or leave. He may be pretending to be gutted, but it's still lying to you. If anything, he's upset about being caught.

I'm really sorry. I can't believe he is lying when it's so obvious. It's hiding in plain sight.

Xales Tue 18-Jun-13 15:12:02

Same as the others I think it was physical unless you know of any other reasons for carpet burns.


SaintTheresa Tue 18-Jun-13 15:17:16

What do YOU want to happen next? In an ideal world, I mean.

I agree with the others that your DH has been unfaithful. Are you prepared to forgive and forget if he changes his ways? Or are you serious that you have to leave. If the latter, then you need to start making plans. You are in a vulnerable position not being a wage earner How difficult would you find getting a job?

I am so sorry you are going through this. How is your marriage in other ways? Perhaps you want to fight for it or perhaps the two of you are better going your separate ways (tough, though).

NatashaBee Tue 18-Jun-13 15:17:28

I also thought that they were referencing actual encounters together. It sounds like more than just flirting to me. I assume there's no way of retrieving the other messages?

Sparkleandshine Tue 18-Jun-13 15:22:22

sorry but the messages you've shown above indicate sexual stuff went on.... "carpet burns" is a classic for dtd on the floor....

AThingInYourLife Tue 18-Jun-13 15:22:39

He was shagging her.

He's still lying to you.

I think you know that really.

DuelingFanjo Tue 18-Jun-13 15:23:26

what to do next. Ask him to move out for a while. Tell him that you need some time to think because you can't trust him and don't believe he is telling the truth.

I'm sorry too, but definitely physical from the looks of what you have written there and you say there is more.

Ask him to move out to give you some head space for a bit.
Really think about what you want.
Is physical the deal breaker or is it the trust?

Go for the STi check for sure as well.

As your son is now 7 may be a good time to gain some independence and get a part time job?
Not sure if this is feasible but worth thinking about?

Keep posting on here for support through this.

Sparkleandshine Tue 18-Jun-13 15:25:15

.... and the "rise up" no question....

BTW, I'm not sure there is much^ difference between an emotional and full affair in my book - I wouldn't be happy either way. In fact I would probably feel worse about an emotional affair that a one off sag no emotions involved..(never been in this situation BTW)

Sparkleandshine Tue 18-Jun-13 15:25:57

*shag not sag

AuntieStella Tue 18-Jun-13 15:26:14

No other explanation, other than sex, springs to mind other then a sexual encounter. Sorry.

Do you want the truth from him?

If so, I suggest to tell him that he has one chance to tell you the whole truth. See what happens.

You need time to process all this. Try not to make a decision about your future - either way - at a time when you are in turmoil. Do you have RL confidantes?

DonutForMyself Tue 18-Jun-13 15:33:43

bullinthesea It is not an EA if they are giving each other carpet burns and meeting up for 'follow ups' to whatever has caused them.

They were NOT organising some work time with the phrases:

Him "should be good"
Her " what do you mean, SHOULD......... Are your knees hurting?"

They were organising sex or oral sex, which apparently he has already done to the point where he injured his knees!

He still has to support your son financially and you will get help to get back on your feet financially without him, so please don't let the fear of being alone keep you in a relationship with this cheating lying scumbag.

He's not upset because he was 'emotionally' unfaithful he's upset because you found out. So sorry for you. And I agree with what someone else said about EAs not being less hurtful than one night stands, for me the idea of my DP texting or emailing sexually suggestive messages would be as awful as him actually doing anything about it. Its just wrong.

bullinthesea Tue 18-Jun-13 15:59:43

Just to add a bit more info, after we spoke at length on Saturday, he then went upstairs & texted her.
He didn't tell me, but I looked on our joint phone bill, and there was her number sad

I confronted him, and he said that it was to tell her that I knew, and not to contact him anymore, and he said that he was in two minds whether to do it as she's got many probs at the moment shock. He said he had deleted the text (wonder why!).

He promised that he'd delete her off his phone/Facebook/ and keep all his contact with her transparent so that I could view any of it any time I want.

Thank you so much for all the replies, I will get back to individual questions when I have a minute later.

AThingInYourLife Tue 18-Jun-13 16:12:03

So his first priority having been discovered cheating was to secretly text his mistress?

The affair is not over.

DuelingFanjo Tue 18-Jun-13 16:18:05

If I were you I would ask or her number, name, facebook account and ask for immediate access to his facebook. if he has nothing to hide he will let you.

JustinBsMum Tue 18-Jun-13 16:18:52

keep all his contact with her transparent

- generous of him

but he deleted the text when it was to tell her that I knew, and not to contact him anymore

hmm, funny that, as that would have been an excellent time to start being 'transparent'.

Big liar are the words that spring to my mind, OP, sorry.

NatashaBee Tue 18-Jun-13 16:20:59

I confronted him, and he said that it was to tell her that I knew, and not to contact him anymore, and he said that he was in two minds whether to do it as she's got many probs at the moment shock. He said he had deleted the text (wonder why!).

Bullshit. Sorry OP.

Xales Tue 18-Jun-13 16:30:04

Sorry OP.

Get that STI test asap and don't have sex with him without a condom again.

He sat crying with his head in your lap while you cried then went and texted her straight away and deleted it.

The more you post the worse it seems.

Sorry but the messages all say 'sex'sad. Atleast he could own up and tell you the bloody truth, what a lying bastard!

Gruntfuttock Tue 18-Jun-13 16:39:18

I imagine the text to her was to tell her that you knew something but didn't know they'd had sex. Hence him deleting it.

AvonCallingBarksdale Tue 18-Jun-13 16:41:24

I think there is nothing to suggest that this is only an emotional affair. I would say, going by those texts, that it has definitely been physical sad

Umlauf Tue 18-Jun-13 16:48:50

I don't usually post on these threads as I often think people are quick to jump to the worst conclusions but from his behaviour it really doesn't seem there could be any other explanation, I'm really sorry but I'm convinced they have had sex. There is no way he would have deleted the message to say you knew and then offer to be transparent.

I am so so sorry that he has done this to you and is now continuing to treat you horrifically by putting you through all of this turmoil. I don't know how you can get the truth out of him, but I think the texts and more recently his behavious after you found out are proof enough. Stay strong xx

bullinthesea Tue 18-Jun-13 18:39:55

He also tells me that it's all the emails are just tongue in cheek innuendo, that she flirts with everyone all the time, she's just like that etc.
He says he had no feelings for her whatsoever.
He says he wants things to work out between us, and can't imagine a life without me. He seems very sad (as am I) and keeps bursting into tears.

I do truly love him & want to believe him, but there's a large part of me that doesn't, and all day while he's at work it's eating away at me, as I don't know whether he's seen her.

Does anyone know whether I'd have been tested for STIs during my pregnancy? I've booked myself in for Friday to get checked out.

I've said I'd like to go for counselling with him, just need to work out if we can afford it really.

I really appreciate the replies, and will answer the questions when I have some time to concentrate.

schobe Tue 18-Jun-13 18:45:11

Did you ask him about the carpet burns comment?

It does sound awfully like they've been shagging, sorry.

lovesfastcars Tue 18-Jun-13 18:46:38

OMG This is almost a carbon copy of what happened to me.
I am so sorry, but I am convinced he is admitting only to what you have proof of.
My H did exactly the same. Bastard even looked me in the eyes and swore on our kids lives he had not slept with her!
He had!
My advice would be to tell him you need absolute and full disclosure, you will not tolerate any more lies, and that if it comes to light (and eventually it will) that he has omitted/ lied about anything when you have given him the opportunity to come clean, then he is GONE!
My H also deleted and lied about the text to OW 'ending' the relationship. Even after I said I needed to see it.
Please don't take anything he says at face value. My H knew that the sex would be a dealbreaker for me, and minimised everything.
So sorry, keep strong, it does get easier x

Ahhhcrap Tue 18-Jun-13 18:48:50

The only way you'll sort this out and stop it eating away at you is for him to tell you EVERYTHING, I mean warts and all.. If you are left in any doubt he's lying you'll forever think 'what' and that's the worst thing ever.

He needs to provide you with all the info and details you need to make a decision about the relationship. By the sounds of things he's covering his arse and only telling you what he absolutely has to. hmm

skyeskyeskye Tue 18-Jun-13 19:00:35

*Her "thank you for earlier, I feel a lot better now !!"
Him "yeah, me too, can meet up on Wednesday for a follow up if it helps "*

Sorry, but those comments alone indicate that it got physical. He is lying to you. I am so sorry for you, but please don't believe what he is saying and be taken for a fool sad

My XH was texting/emiling OW thousands of times a month. I never found evidence of anything physical though, just a lot of flirting and sweet nothings. I also discovered it via facebook/mobile phone bill.

I sat him down and asked him how often he texted her, he said not often..... they lie until they know you can prove otherwise.

AuntieStella Tue 18-Jun-13 19:12:06

"Does anyone know whether I'd have been tested for STIs during my pregnancy?"

Only syphillis is tested for everywhere. HIV is done in most places now, and chlamydia maybe. You do need to go and get a proper check that cover all the common STIs.

bbqsummer Tue 18-Jun-13 19:32:00

By the sounds of it, you don't have kids. So just get rid of him because he's lying. What a wanker. All that drama queen burying head in lap stuff? Bollox. textbook.

If you do have kids but you just haven't mentioned them then, well, he's going to miss them isn't he.

Remind him there are some good creams for carpet burns - Boots emergency burns gel is good.

Then show him the door.

AgathaF Tue 18-Jun-13 19:32:30

Get a full STI screen at your local clinic. I would also suggest to him that he goes to - if he is bending over backwards for you at the minute then he should do that.

Why would he continue to need any future contact with her? Is it essential because of work? If so, cam he request to move to a different department, or look for another job? If you decide to stay together, you should not have to be worried about him being around her at work.

maleview70 Tue 18-Jun-13 19:44:30

Never trust a man who "keeps bursting into tears"

Deflection technique.

snuffaluffagus Tue 18-Jun-13 20:02:08

Does he have an iPhone? If you swipe to the left on the home screen and use the search- type something you think might be in the text- kisses or babe or something, it'll show up all the texts or emails that have that word in them. Even if deleted. You'll only see the first few words and can't tell if it is one that has been sent or received but it might help.. Or not..

lovesfastcars Tue 18-Jun-13 20:12:29

Ooh yes, that's the spotlight function. Ipad or iPhone. That was very very helpful to me when gathering my 'evidence'

I think he is sad because he got rattled. Crying because he got caught. Upset at losing her too, I would imagine.

Do you have children together?

AThingInYourLife Tue 18-Jun-13 21:06:04

"Never trust a man who "keeps bursting into tears"

Deflection technique."


It's so fucking insulting too (apart from the insult to your intelligence in expecting you to believe his obvious lies about not shagging her).

What has he to be sad about?

You are sad because you just found out your husband has been cheating in you.

He has known about his affair for months, and enjoyed every second of it.

Was he bursting into tears last week?


But he knew all about what he was doing to you then.

He's crying now because he feels sorry for himself.

Because he got caught.

That is selfish, self-indulgent crap.

True remorse doesn't demand all the attention be focused on the feelings if the person who is sorry.

DrHolmes Tue 18-Jun-13 21:16:38

I agree, I would say they have had sex.

Especially the knees hurting bit, deffo carpet burns from shagging on the floor.

OP it is staring you in the face. I am very sorry.

tessa6 Tue 18-Jun-13 21:28:04

bull, he's lying to you. I'm sorry. I know it's hard when you're there and you're looking at him. He's having to convince himself. But you'd have to be deluded to believe they haven't been physical. If you want to make this work and repress the truth you will spend your whole life never knowing. You have to tell him you want to see a message ending it with her, but he has already minimised and disrespected you so totally. If he doesn't come clean soon, there's no hope for this liar.

Yes tears are about a terrible realisation of the consequences for him now he's been found out. nothing to do with you at all.

lottieandmia Tue 18-Jun-13 21:39:55

It's obvious he's lying - did you confront him about the 'carpet burns'?

musickeepsmesane Tue 18-Jun-13 21:46:58

bull, I hope you are getting some RL support. I try to see the best in posts like these and I see nothing innocent here. It is a physical relationship. He is lying to you. Very unmumsnetty but <hugs> and wine

Smilehappy Tue 18-Jun-13 21:49:53

He is a cheating cunt hmm and if I were you I'd confront her, and ask him to transfer if possible jobs or find a new one. How can you trust him going to work everyday if she will be there confusedshock I really hope your ok sad

Hand holding and hugs!envy

funnymummy2931 Tue 18-Jun-13 21:54:23

Has he got Whatsap? X

lottieandmia Tue 18-Jun-13 22:16:14

Have there been opportunities for him to spend time with her outside of work where you couldn't be sure where he was?

Hopingtobehappy Tue 18-Jun-13 23:20:19


I know exactly what you are going through.

I found my husband half naked, with my best friend (at the time) also half naked. He told me that they 'messed around' but didnt have sex. I believed him because I WANTED TO BELIEVE HIM.

8 years later when we finally split (for other reasons) I asked him again and HE STILL DENIED IT! 2 years after that however, he admitted they had a 2 year affair. By the time I found out I didnt actually care and I have learned a lot about the reasons he did what he did. I hold no grudges and I actually feel a little sad as I think they really loved each other and maybe even missed out on a chance for happiness, however thats another story.

You will only believe what you WANT to believe. You know in your head what has really happened, but until you are ready, you will convince yourself every which way you can that he hasnt done this.

Nobody can tell you what to do and nobody knows your relationship like you do. I have no regrets that I stayed with my H for so long after that, we had many more good times and when we eventually split, it was instigated by me and I was in control.

You do what feels right for you, but be prepared for a rollercoaster of emotions. PM me if you like..

Snugglepiggy Wed 19-Jun-13 08:26:39

So sorry for you Bull .Its almost three years to the day since I discovered what I will always regard as my DHs EA,although working things through I honestly believe now I got full disclosure - but not in the early days as he was totally panic stricken at his marriage ending there and then if I knew how often they had met and how much texting had gone on and for how long.I also believe it hadn't got physical and that OW was in deeper emotionally than my DH,he was enjoying having his ego boosted and the 'banter'.
It is the truly most awful experience of my life so far.But he cut contact with OW that night and if he had felt it as important to text her when I was in the shock of discovery rather than focus on us that would have made recovery much harder.And the tears?What a self indulgent prick.Sorry but that's how he sounds.
Hopingtobehappy.Your last post makes me feel strong and happy.DH and I worked things through and have had some really good times especially in the last year or so as things have settled down and I've learnt to forgive and trust again.But I feel in control now too.And if he were to behave that way again,or I felt our marriage wasn't stronger and better and fulfilling both our needs I wouldnt hesitate to call it a day, even years down the line.

Hopingtobehappy Wed 19-Jun-13 09:24:47

Snugglepiggy glad my post makes you feel strong, but I have to say it wasnt until years later that I felt ready to actually open my eyes to what had happened.

I also found out all those years later that he had actually had 4 other affairs and numerous ONS's, but I would not have wanted to hear that at the time.

To be honest, I would never expect to ever be in a manogomous relationship again. I am not sure that the majority of men are capable of it (no flames please I am sure there are some!) I would never ever presume that anyone was being faithful to me. Luckily I am not a jealous person!

bullinthesea Wed 19-Jun-13 09:52:53

Hi, I'll try & answer the questions that have been posted now smile

SaintTheresa - I'm so confused at the moment, that I don't even know what I want myself! I'm not sure if I could forgive any physical stuff tbh. What he's done is bad enough, but that would be even worse. I've been applying for jobs for some months now, it's tricky, as I want to work while DS is at school (p/t).

Schobe - yes, I've asked him about the carpet burns comment, and he says it was all just banter/flirting. I'm still struggling to believe that mind you.

Lovesfastcars - yes my H has also looked me in the eyes and sworn on everyone's (including DS) lives that he's not had sex with her. I have also given him the opportunity to tell me everything, which is when he mentioned about the time she tried to kiss him at the Xmas do a few years ago.

Bbqsummer - yes we have one DS, lol about the cream for carpet burns!

AgathaF - yes, he does need to interact at work, but not that much.

Maleview70 - that is a very good point and I will keep it in mind, thanks

snuffaluffagus - yes, I have done that on all his phones & iPads, thanks for the tip.

Athinginyourlife - he says he's sad because of what he's putting me through. No, he wasn't bursting into tears last week, although he said that he was thinking of telling me about it last week, as he was feeling guilty.

Musickeepsmesane - yes I had coffee with a friend yesterday, and had a chat with her about it. She also said it sounded like it was physical.

Hopingtobehappy - thanks for the PM offer smile

We chatted again this morning, and he said that he'd looked through those emails, and he didn't think there was anything really that bad in them, and they were all work related shock. I told him that it looked bad from my perspective, and I even said that he was trying to minimise it. After all, the work emails are scanned, so they're not going to put anything that bad in them are they?
I also pulled him up on the carpet burns comment again, to which he went quiet, patted my stomach, and whispered "sorry" (I have asked him several times).

Thanks again for the responses, it's hard to hear, but I need to hear it.

Marigold1 Wed 19-Jun-13 09:55:17

Hopingtobehappy - are you the same person that started a thread on having a 18 month affair with a married man? If so bit rich to be popping up on this one offering advice! If not you then apologies.

He had an affair with her.

Are you happy to live with that?

countingto10 Wed 19-Jun-13 09:59:55

Have you asked him what he is going to do to fix this? Yes you have to decide what you want but you need to be seeing certain actions from him, not weak apologies etc.

GobblersKnob Wed 19-Jun-13 10:09:44

I'm going to go against the grain and point out that I exchange FAR more lewd and ribald messages with friends than the ones you have listed.

Just looked at alone, I am sure if they were read people could easily be convinced I was sleeping around, when nothing could be further from the truth.

I have read that the most ribabld banter tends to take place among work mates and the most suggestive of all among those who there is no chance of anything ever happening. I could well be wrong and am clearly a lone voice, but not all suggestive banter points to anything of any concequence.

Xales Wed 19-Jun-13 10:18:22

I actually think putting his head in your lap and crying is quite devious.

It puts him in the role of comforted child and you in the role of comforter.

Hard to be angry and want to have it out when they do that and what about comforting the hurting innocent partner.

onefewernow Wed 19-Jun-13 10:30:41

One thing I learned the hard way is that a cheater who does not want his world to crumble can look you steadily in the eye, swear on you or the children's lives, rave against other cheaters, and still be lying.

That's the difficulty.

They behave almost exactly like those telling the truth.

I do think it seems to be a pattern that they seek comfort from you and pity themselves when caught out, and lots of us fall for it.

NandH Wed 19-Jun-13 10:34:43

Sorry sad
Run for the hills!!! That's more than emotional !!

For goodness sake, the knee thing could not possibly be more obvious.

Get some advice for a solicitor unless you want to be married to a man who cheats and lies and cries.

tessa6 Wed 19-Jun-13 10:51:54

OP, I know everything in you right now is telling you not to upset your life and to trust him and that he is hurting. But if this is swept under the rug and the truth does not out, it will fester and ruin things later down the line. That 'sorry' moment is horrible. NO cheater tells the whole truth when initially confronted. ALL of them minimize. The difference is between those that eventually, when they see they can't lie their way out of it, let everything out, see what they would be losing and fight like crazy to be honest and different from that point. He doesn't realise that the truth is the only thing that can save him here. Unless you would rather live with lies.

You need to just say 'You are lying to me' over and over. He is, OP. At the moment you both want the other version to be true, so you will both work to make it true. Doesn't mean it is.

Say you want to speak with her from his phone. Don't give him a chance to think about it or space to go off and text her or prepare lies with her. Although this is scary you need to shatter the intimacy between them and see what it truly is.
And he MUST commit to never working with her again, even if it means moving jobs.

Otherwise this is all a waste of time and in in six months time it will happen again.

So sorry for the pain and anguish. It is a dreadful thing to discover about someone who is supposed to protect you. Don't forget he cannot protect you from him.

MrsZoidberg Wed 19-Jun-13 10:58:53

Try reading "NOT Just Friends" by Shirley Glass - it really helped me and I'm not into Self Help books.

piratecat Wed 19-Jun-13 10:59:45

'he was going to tell me last week'??


tell you what exactly. about 'nothing' ???!!

come on op.

skyeskyeskye Wed 19-Jun-13 11:08:21

OP. I am sorry for you. When I discovered XH's thousands of texts to OW I tried to believe the best, and think that they were just supporting each other, but MN is the best place for a wake up call. In my case, my XH had already left and our marriage was over, but there is no doubt in my mind that he left because his feelings for her killed his feelings for me...... He walked out with no warning, after getting involved with her emotionally.

While your H is investing all his emotions and needs into that woman, he is not thinking about you and your DS.

If your H thinks that he has fooled you, he will continue to see this woman because he thinks he has got away with it. sad

You need to tell him that you are not stupid, and that you do not believe what he says. What they have exchanged is far far worse than flirty banter.

GiveMumABreak Wed 19-Jun-13 11:16:03

I'm so very sorry this has happened to you.

I think the only one you are going to get the truth from is her - if you can contact her (in a non threatening way so as not to scare her off) and ask her to be open and honest with you.

Wishing you lots of strength - Good Luck!

hellocatty Wed 19-Jun-13 12:37:17

I am going to go against the grain as well and say they could just be banter (not that they didn't have intent behind them) you could read all of the messages two ways and I initially read them and didn't think they were that bad then re read after everyones else comment's and thought "oh yes I see what they mean".

However the fact remains that he has deceived you and seems to be continuing to manipulate the situation.

I would assume the worse possible scenario and base your decisions on that as really emotional/physical affairs are still wrong and unfair to you and not what you deserve.

People do continue their relationships after affairs so good luck with whatever decision you come to.

Umlauf Wed 19-Jun-13 12:44:17

I don't think its the messages as such... they could be explained away as dodgy banter, even the carpet burns could be "fun" innuendo relating to a non sexual incident made to sound sexual for purposes of flirting....

What worries me the most is his response. You wouldnt then delete the message ending it, if 'it' is really nothing. And why did he go quiet about the carpet burns comment? I would be fighting to explain away the exact circumstances that led to a text looking that dodgy, an instant "it's not what it looks like!" rather than a mumbled sorry...

OP I wish you all the luck, relationships can survive affairs but now is not the time to make any instant decisions. I wonder if you would feel up to contacting the OW and asking for her side of the story, before your DH has a chance to warn her? There is no guarantee she would tell you the truth but if you act as though you know everything she may confirm more than your DH has. Don't do it in an accusatory manner though as that will get her back up and she wasn't the married one.

lazarusb Wed 19-Jun-13 12:44:31

Has he explained the carpet burn text at all? It seems an odd subject and a difficult one to explain away as innocent...

There is nothing even remotely sexy or flirty about carpet burns, unless you have done something together that would warrant carpet burns. hmm He is taking you for a mug!

He patted your tummy and whispered "sorry"? shock

Manipulative bastard.

DonutForMyself Wed 19-Jun-13 14:20:20

unless either of them are physiotherapists or carpet fitters those references are definitely dodgy.

tessa6 Wed 19-Jun-13 15:10:53

Re-reading them, OP, they seem guilty as hell but you can't prove anything definitively. The oldest, shittest trick in the book is for a man to claim a woman he has had an affair with had a 'thing' for him. This should always ring warning bells.

I think you might feel better if you spoke to her, you know. And she should have to face that you're a real person who she can't imagine out of existence.

bestsonever Wed 19-Jun-13 16:17:47

He went quiet and patted your stomach and said sorry - hmmm, what's the betting that you were pregnant at the time of the 'carpet burn' moment? What a dick!

urmydarlings Wed 19-Jun-13 17:10:08

what enrages me the most too is the - patted my stomach. He is a f*****. get shot of him u deserve better. You will survive on ur own. Ask urself honestly if u will ever be able to trust him again? Or will you be sat at home wondering what he's up to.

clam Wed 19-Jun-13 17:14:35

Well, if ever there was any doubt, the moment he swore on your son's life should have nailed it. Classic response of someone who's lying through their teeth.

IamMrsElf Wed 19-Jun-13 17:49:44

You need answers. It all sounds like he's been physical. He sounds like a manipulative arse. If he won't spill then ask her.

When I was at Uni my BF cheated on me, found the details written in a diary (wanker). I had my suspicions for a while. Found out later from mutual friends that she was not the first. It felt so hideous to find out like that. I think he wrote it down for me to find. What makes it worse is I took back the manipulative little shite - emotional black mail - please take me to visit my mum's grave, I feel so low right now - cunt! It was the worst mistake of my life and nearly ruined my degree.

Trust your instincts and keep going until you get the truth.

AnyFucker Wed 19-Jun-13 18:22:26

I've said it before and I'll say it again

The "swear on a life" shtick is the hallmark of a consummate liar

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Wed 19-Jun-13 18:46:09

Up until the Saturday mystery text it could be arguably 'just' an emotional affair; stretching over so long a time it's gone beyond banter.

I think that moment of panic gave him away.

So sorry OP.

MrsZoidberg Wed 19-Jun-13 18:54:05

To all the posters recommending ringing OW, do you think she will actually tell the truth?

The only scenario I can see that working in, is if ow wants the OP to throw the lying bastard out, so she can have him.

tessa6 Wed 19-Jun-13 21:31:32

I don't think she will tell the truth, but I expect they won't have exactly matching stories, which may be revealing especially if specific questions are asked like 'what did he text you the other day?' And OP should insist he speak to her whilst she's present, say what he wants to do. And then show all further communication.

lottieandmia Wed 19-Jun-13 22:49:02

I would think that he will have told her to keep quiet about this. Surely the reason men lie and lie and lie when they've had an affair is that they don't want to be out of the family house on their own and with all the consequences that brings.

OTOH, if you texted her and she didn't reply that would be telling imo.

MrsMelons Thu 20-Jun-13 09:10:20

I would not believe about the 'swearing on a life' thing as it is meaningless and if someone did lie what would actually happen?!

I am so sorry you are going through this but I have to agree with the majority, it really doesn't sound just flirty - for the the knees/carpet burns comments would be the deal breakers here. None of the messages are 'flirty' they are much more 'sexual'. This is not like an EA at all, for me an EA involves feelings, this is all about sex.

You need to decide if you can move on from this and the most important thing is whether you believe him or not, if it will be niggling at you as to whether it was physical or not then you will never be able to move on. You have to believe him completely for this to work IMO.

FWIW - regardless of whether this was physical or not it would be a deal breaker for me and I am sure DH would feel the same.

DonutForMyself Thu 20-Jun-13 09:20:20

Agree with Mrs Melons, an EA implies feelings of friendship blurring into love, the emotional element of a relationship without getting sexual or physical. What these two are doing is not emotional, just a bit sleazy. Its either a full-blown sexual affair or at the very least an inappropriate flirtation that has got out of hand. Either way it is not something that a man in a committed relationship should be indulging in.

ClairityVerity Thu 20-Jun-13 11:07:25

It does sound as though he's having/ had an affair with her. sad

Just a question that occurred to me on reading your OP - you say you were suffering a nasty bout of depression at the time (I do hope you've managed to come through it ok). Have you had depression for a long time? From experience I'm willing to bet (not in ANY way to justify your OH's behaviour; just presenting context) that he will have gone through a lot of stress and distress supporting you through your bout of depression - this is a massive deal for anyone who's been in that position. What he should have done (and I'm assuming that he didn't) is to seek proper counselling and support for himself as the partner of someone with depression. It sounds as though he may possibly have started an affair as a dangerous and inadequate alternative.

As an outsider who knows very little about you both, I'd say that you should both go for individual and/ or couples counselling to help you work through the problems you've been through this past few years.

JustinBsMum Thu 20-Jun-13 11:59:50

It could be that your bout of depression lead him to look for support elsewhere but on the other hand it could be that his uncaring, unsupportive behaviour contributed to it in the first place.

bullinthesea Fri 21-Jun-13 12:12:25

It's been an emotional few days - yesterday I was driving along, and suddenly found myself in floods of tears, sobbing really hard. I think I had been holding it together reasonably well until that point.

I found the idea of 'assuming the worst' very useful. Instead of spending the whole day questioning it, I've realised that it probably was physical, and that, like others have mentioned, he is likely to be only admitting to that which he has to.

He is behaving like someone who is feeling very guilty at the moment - I wouldn't expect this much guilt & remorse from someone that has 'just sent a few flirty texts'.
He keeps telling me that he can't believe how stupid he's been 'just to make himself feel good'.
He says he wants to keep it just between us, that he'd feel awful if people knew. I told him that I need to be able to talk to my close friends, but that I'm not exactly going to be going round telling all our friends & family.

I also went for my STI checks this morning, have to wait 2-3 weeks for the results.

Re the comments regarding my depression, yes, it was sudden & severe, a big shock for us all. He was a fantastic support and I know that it was hugely draining mentally & physically for him too. It is entirely possible that this was his coping mechanism, and yes, it's also possible that his attitude prior to my becoming ill, contributed to my illness.
I was given medication, and am also having therapy, and have been doing much better lately.

Thanks again to everyone for your support during this time.

Umlauf Fri 21-Jun-13 12:18:50

I'm so pleased to hear how better you've been doing in therapy bull and that you're feeling stronger. Please don't blame your illness for any infidelity though, of course illness is hard on partners but by no stretch of the imagination could he to twist it as your illness driving him into the arms of another woman.

You must feel like you are in limbo at the moment, and you need to know everything so that you can make the right decisión for what you want to happen next. I hope he can respect you enough to give you that.

Thinking of you.

tessa6 Fri 21-Jun-13 12:24:37

Please don't discount the fact that the affair may have been a contributor to the depression and may have begun long before he admits. When a partner withdraws affection and belief in a relationship, you can sense it subconsciously and often people self-blame or self-medicate through it because they don't have the full story.

It sounds like you are right and he is minimising and admitting only to you what you can prove. The regret and sorror exist as a result of him being caught, don't forget. He didn't even admit which would have been a better sign of his intentions and respect for you.

The idea that his social embarrassment and risk of being seen as a villain are more important to him than what you need and the support friends and family could offer you are signs of the same narcissism and selfishness that bring about an affair.

It sounds like you're avoiding the details because you don't think he will tell you and maybe because you know if you knew you would find it painful. Please don't let this be swept under the rug. It must be faced and resolved either way.

It is scandalous that he should try and influence who you tell and why. The best thing for an adulterer is to have it held up to the light so the bubble of lies and other lifeness can be seen for what it really is and all realities can blend. He needs judgement and consequences right now. or he will learn that when he cheats, he is believed, forgiven and still liked. And he would do it again.

Umlauf Fri 21-Jun-13 12:28:00

He says he wants to keep it just between us, that he'd feel awful if people knew

This is just horrid. I missed that before.

He has seen what he has done to you.

How does he think YOU feel now that YOU know?

He is worried about feeling a bit embarrased?!?!

Fucking Prick.

So sorry OP x

lovesfastcars Fri 21-Jun-13 12:53:48

Please consider asking him to leave and respect your need for space and distance. I know it is a personal thing, and totally up to you, but I really believe that it can be so helpful both to you, and completely essential that he sees there are consequences to his actions.
It could only be as little as a few days, but it really helps to help get your head a bit straighter, and gather your strength.
I also think that it is perfectly ok to tell him that you don't believe he has told you the whole truth, his actions and version of events don't add up, and that he needs to be 100% honest because you won't even consider engaging with him until he does.
There is no way he would be behaving like this unless there is more to discover. Further lies and minimising will only damage your ability to begin to get over this (regardless of if you stay together, or go your separate ways)
There really is a script for this, and he is following it to the letter.
Don't accept this BS. Get real, get strong and assertive and you will feel much more in control.
All the best x

AThingInYourLife Fri 21-Jun-13 13:17:52

Wow, well now you have your proof that his tears are all for himself.

His main concern is keeping it quiet?

What a total fucking shit he is to you.

Despite all his boo-hooing about "what he's putting you through", he doesn't give a fuck about making it easier for you to feel better.

He's still lying and he wants to deny you support.

captainmummy Fri 21-Jun-13 13:37:20

So what is he actually doing to help you through this?
Has he stopped seeing/texting her?
Do you have full access to his phone, computer etc?
Is he willing to go to counselling?

I think also that you don't know the full story yet.


Bogeyface Fri 21-Jun-13 13:40:15

Of course he doesnt want anyone to know! He knows what people will think of him and he doesnt want that.

It is very clear that their relationship was physical, what you have to decide is whether or not you can live with that and give it another go. Personally I couldnt.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Fri 21-Jun-13 14:01:46

Plus, if people know, people may come out of the woodwork to admit 'I knew XZY/saw XZY but didn't want to interefere with your marriage...'

He's not only denying you support, he's trying to keep his self preservation to how much he has admitted to you and how much actually happened.

Plus, if word got around, could he and OW get in trouble at work?

All about him.

tessa6 Fri 21-Jun-13 16:24:04

Yes this is VERY true, OP. Often people don't want it 'out there' because lots of people close to the couple know or have suspicions. He may also be afraid the full story will come out.

His actions have been just woeful. The opposite of what someone should do I'm afraid if there's hope for rebuilding and putting the other person first.

You will tell who the hell you like. It is the truth. He did this. Especially his family, OP. He is trying to protect his own reputation over your self-respect. He is trying to manipulate you into protecting his grubby little secret for him, even though it has blown your world apart.

I think there is much much more at the bottom of this I'm afraid and I would go snooping and outright asking people, OP. I know all your instinct will be going into denial and relationship protecting lock down but now is the only time you can really sort this out. If you agree to collude in repressing it, six months down the line when you find something else out he'll be all 'It was A LONG time ago' and you'll be too far in to rebuilding to be brave and it'll eat away at you.

lazarusb Fri 21-Jun-13 17:03:36

Agree with everyone else. Tell who you like, this isn't your shame. He wants it kept quiet and swept under the rug. That way he can restart the affair at a more convenient time when you've been placated. He isn't acting to reassure you, he's trying to save himself.

2712 Fri 21-Jun-13 17:35:35

I wouldn't trust him ever again i'm afraid. And I would tell him to hand over his phone so you can see what messages are coming along. Don't just ask to look at it occasionally, keep it on hand at all times. If he refuses then he obviously doesn't really want to make things better.

Wellwobbly Fri 21-Jun-13 19:52:31

Please do what I did not do, and talk to people and reach out to them. Tell them the truth, and show them the texts.

The support I have had is huge. The disapproval he has had is huge. It reduces their power.

I am so sorry, he is lying to you. They have been having sex and he is doing damage limitation (it is called cake eating).

Throw him out and TELL PEOPLE.

MysteriousHamster Fri 21-Jun-13 20:22:28

He might well be crying because he's missing her. What an awful pig.

They clearly did sleep together.

I'm so sorry, OP. You need to start telling people so you have some RL support.

Lavenderhoney Fri 21-Jun-13 20:44:53

My dp before my dh did the whole " I'm so sorry, don't tell anyone " thing. Even when the ow turned up after being kicked out by her dh he was still worried about how he would look, and still denying it was physical in front of her!! Ill not forget the look she gave him! No dc involved thank goodness.

I went along with it until he gave me a huge sum of money representative of the time and money I had invested in the relationship, then I went to the local pub, had a few drinks and let slip the whole sorry tale of the 5 years he had spent having an affair. Rather sadly it appeared some close mutual friends already knew, and had been asked to keep quiet.

Op, do what's best for you. You don't have to decide quickly. I wouldn't bother asking the OW myself, she will only answer as it suits her. Don't blame yourself at all.

With him behaving like this - lying, minimising, crying and begging, you've got no chance of moving forwards.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Sat 22-Jun-13 12:21:01

How are you doing today bullinthesea?

bullinthesea Wed 26-Jun-13 13:13:58

DonkeysDontRideBicycles - thank you for asking how I am, I'm a jumble of emotions really, I've calmed down a bit now, but still not exactly great.

We've spent many hours talking, and I've been probing him further for details here and there.

He's admitted that there were some very explicit e-mails sent, I asked him how many, he said about 20-30 (I guess I can multiply that by 4 then!).

I've asked him to tell me about the content of the emails, he says he's hurt me enough already and that he doesn't want to hurt me further, just doesn't want to go down that road. He becomes extremely anxious when I ask him about it, and his body starts shaking. He's also developed a nervous twitch. I've told him that I do still want to know the detail, even if its going to hurt me, as it feels like that stuff is still a secret just between them. He says he doesn't understand why he did it, that he's ashamed of himself.

He has recognised through this that he has been depressed for a long time, and has been looking for support in the wrong places.
We read the beginning of "his needs her needs" together - the section about how affairs start. He says it made him feel sick to realise how close it had become to a full blown affair (which I'm assuming it was, although he still won't admit to that), and how easily it can happen.
He started therapy yesterday, to help him with his depression & anxiety.

If nothing else, this whole mess has brought us together to really talk (literally all day, and into the early hours) about our marriage, what has been going wrong, why we'd drifted apart, why we react to each other the way we do etc, and what it is we really want from each other.

I am still going to continue to probe for answers, even though it'll probably kill me inside to hear it, I just have to know what went on, so that I can begin to recover & move forward.

I really don't know what the future holds at the moment, it still feels far too fresh for me to be making any major decisions yet.

I'll keep you posted ;) thanks everyone for your comments, they have helped to keep me thinking more clearly this past week.

Highlighta Wed 26-Jun-13 14:05:55

Just because there were flirty text messages, doesn't automatically mean that they had an affair. I know this, I was there myself....

I got chatting to a male married friend, initially about something trivial and it just escalated from there. It went to jokes, then dirty jokes, to quite sexual advances and comments, even more so that you described in your op. It even went as far as asking for naked pics etc.

I stopped contact with him as I felt it was going to far. We never once had any physical contact and didn't have a physical affair. Emotional, yes I agree. I felt good about myself (in one way) as he also told me nice things that I think I wanted to hear... calling me sexy etc. Dh and i's sex life improved dramatically and strangely enough things between us are a bit better (even though I haven't told him - and never will). I realize now that I was a little bored, I enjoyed the entertaining side of it but also realized that so much was at stake regarding my marriage, kids etc. I wanted to look nice, I got a new hairdo, starting wearing a bit of makeup - i haven't changed this part of it as i quite like looking nicer.

So, if he is adamant there was no physical affair, they maybe wasn't. He could be telling you the truth. He probably felt great, someone else was paying him attention and making him feel good and he liked it. Not everyone who speaks to someone of the other sex automatically jumps in bed with them.

Really? People find numerous texts about the state of a man's knees sexy/flirty?

People talk about their knees/carpet burns after they have been shagging.

So now he is admitting that there is more to it than what he originally said. When will he tell you the truth?

AgathaF Wed 26-Jun-13 14:31:28

Does he accept that by not letting you see the things you want to see, that your imagination will be in overdrive, and you are probably imaginings things to be far worse than they are?

I think he is being very selfish.

Highlighta Wed 26-Jun-13 14:33:18

this was your post in response to mine? If there had been a bit of a joke going between them about knees then, yes it is possible that its just a joke between them. Its not to say that he did shag her and got the carpet burns.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Wed 26-Jun-13 14:39:20

You're not powerless, you have options, it is still raw but now transparency and honesty are vital. Bit late in the day for him to worry about hurting you, that ship has sailed. This must seem very alien and nightmarish but have you been able to confide in anyone else in rl? It is a lonely place to be if you are used to him being the one you turn to in a crisis.

Excuse me for saying if this is furthest from your mind but any sexual intimacy between you please take no chances, use protection.

Wishing you strength and time to think things through.

And he won't let her see the emails because it will hurt her further?

Highlighta, from the content of those texts, i would say there is zero doubt they've shagged.

He starts shaking to avoid showing op the emails. That is hilarious except it isn't. sad

Wellwobbly Wed 26-Jun-13 14:55:07

"He becomes extremely anxious when I ask him about it, and his body starts shaking."

I bet he does.

Good luck, OP, the fact that you are talking is such a good sign. But, are YOU doing most of the talking? Watch what he does. Actions always always always speak louder than words.

Wellwobbly Wed 26-Jun-13 14:57:25

(in other words, is he telling you how it went wrong for him? How he contributed to it? What he intends to do different? Where he let you down?)

or does he just say 'yes' to everything you say.

Does he tell you what is said in his counselling? What he has learned, what he has realised?

Those sorts of actions: emotional openness as the polar opposite of secrets and lies.

AgathaF Wed 26-Jun-13 15:02:00

Has he had an STD check done? I noticed you had one, but you didn't say if he had. I don't suppose he would want to, in case it gave you the idea that it was physical, and I don't suppose he wants the humiliation either, but he should really get one if you have.

bullinthesea Wed 26-Jun-13 17:43:41

Wellwobbly - yes, he has covered all of those things, he's said that there's no excuse for his behaviour, and that he's aware that he had closed himself off from me emotionally for a while, and realises that's had it's effects on my mental health & our marriage. Also, I'm glad to say that it's not me doing all the talking, I'm making sure he talks too. He says he's never opened up to someone so much in his life.
He came home yesterday & told me all about his therapy (it was his first one). It sounds like he covered a lot of ground, and he told her all about this situation.

AgathaF - no, he did apologise for putting me through that, and said "it should be me going through it not you". I expect he's waiting to see what my results are first. You could be right that he doesn't want to give me the idea that it was physical, by getting tested. I agree, he should get one (he's also just admitted that his ex cheated on him & he didn't even think of getting checked after the event), and I'll mention it when I see him later. Also, you're right about my imagination being in overdrive now!

DonkeysDontRideBicycles - I've spoken to two people, and also texted my Mum. I'm due for my next therapy appointment on Friday, and will discuss it then too. Yes, the whole situation is very isolating & nightmarish

Thisisaeuphemism - yes, it think things are coming out in trickles really, I'm holding out for the truth. I think he's scared of what I'll think of him when I know, from what he says. Agree that talking about carpet burns/knees etc is not flirty/sexy, although he does a lot of running, which may explain painful knees (but not carpet burns of course).
Also, as far as I know, the emails (the very explicit ones) were deleted long ago. I've only seen the ones not deemed bad enough for deletion I think, although, they certainly paint a bad enough picture really.
He still insists nothing physical went on, although I find it very hard to believe that many explicit emails were sent between the two of them, but nothing came of it. Perhaps I'm a prude.....

AgathaF Wed 26-Jun-13 17:51:00

Has he had any recent contact with her? I know you said that he had to have some minimal contact through work, and I wonder how you feel about that. Given what he has done, I think it wouldn't be unreasonable of you to ask him to look for another job. I don't know how you can be expected to cope with knowing he sees her at work, and also at work do's.

I'm glad you have some RL support.

bullinthesea Wed 26-Jun-13 17:55:44

He has agreed that he must get another job, and he has started searching. Yes, I hate the fact that he may see her at work, it feels very uncomfortable, and he is well aware of how I feel.

AnyFucker Wed 26-Jun-13 17:58:14

He's developed a nervous twitch? Give that man an Oscar....

Re. His ex cheating on him. Has it occurred to you that he has set up a very convenient explanation for if something turns up on his own sti check?

DonutForMyself Wed 26-Jun-13 18:14:19

he's also just admitted that his ex cheated on him & he didn't even think of getting checked after the event

That will be handy if it turns out he does have an STD then, it will obviously be because of his ex, not because of anything he has done hmm

DonutForMyself Wed 26-Jun-13 18:15:05

Ha! X-post sorry AgathaF. OP please take everything this man says with a very large pinch of salt.

Op, you sound so level-headed and lovely. He sounds dreadful with his weeping in your lap and his recent shaking and twitching. Was he always like this? Aside from his affair and his manipulation of it, do you think you could respect him enough to have a 'normal' relationship again?

AnyFucker Wed 26-Jun-13 18:31:39

I could not respect a man like this. Boo fucking hoo ? FUCK RIGHT OFF YOU DISGUST ME.

Namechangingnorma Wed 26-Jun-13 19:00:05

OP, I dont often comment on these threads but in this case I feel compelled. You are absolutely putting your head in the sand. There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever he has had sex with her. Whenhe texted 'we've been thinking about you' he meant him and his c**k. It couldnt be clearer if he said 'I enjoyed that great shag we had' which people just don't say. He is shaking and twitching because he knows hw much of the truth is still being witheld. Your relationship will never work unless you get the truth and then make a decision. I wish you the best of luck

ChipsNEggs Wed 26-Jun-13 21:11:03

So he forgets about his ex cheating on him when you were TTC then pregnant, he forgets when you had your pregnancy screening. What makes him suddenly remember is when it is a convenient excuse in case you've caught an STI due to his cheating.

That's utter bullshit, he is lying through his teeth and he will never ever admit it. He's definitely shagged her and he's potentially put your health at risk. Lovely bloke.

AnyFucker Wed 26-Jun-13 21:22:33

OP, did you not pick up on this at all ?

he has carved himself a perfect excuse he will expect you to swallow when the chlamydia/crabs/herpes/whatever shows up

how strange he only just remembered his cheating ex

AnyFucker Wed 26-Jun-13 21:23:18

In that one sentence he has shown you the kind of man he is, and the kind of man he will always remain

34DD Wed 26-Jun-13 21:28:39

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Junebugjr Wed 26-Jun-13 21:29:02

Anxiety and depression?? Smacks of another bullshit excuse, sorry to be so blunt OP.
I can't see how someone suffering from these debilitating illnesses would be up to firing off explicit emails, and having the energy to chase round after other women. You must be a very calm person, to be so willing to sit down and read chapters of books with him, I'd be screaming like a banshee at him, and sending all his clothes to the OWs desk at work grin

I would suggest to take time out to decide what you want. It can be tempting to just rush in and start rebuilding your relationship without giving it the proper thought, but ask yourself questions that only you will know, can you really forgive, can you carry on the rest of your life in a relationship where you'll never know if he physically cheated. I'd give yourself a few weeks mulling things over and then make a decision. Best of luck.

Junebugjr Wed 26-Jun-13 21:30:24

Oh yes, and what 34DD said. Shaft away.

Spartacus101 Wed 26-Jun-13 21:32:17

I thought that re the 'cheating ex' convenient little reason for an STI there. hmm sad

waddlecakes Wed 26-Jun-13 21:33:17

I thought it had gotten physical.

Then I read this: '' I agree, he should get one (he's also just admitted that his ex cheated on him & he didn't even think of getting checked after the event.''

And now I KNOW it has gotten physical.

No doubt. Not a single doubt.

This is where you need to decide if you'd like to do something morally dubious. If you do, then please read on.

Next week you sit down with him, and you tell him that you received the results and it appears you have chlamydia.

At this stage he will go white as a sheet, and start mumbling about his ex, blah blah blah. Then, you simply hold up your hand and say: ''Wait. When I heard the news about the chalmydia, I started to really panic because if you live with that STI for long enough, your fertility can be irreperably damaged. I started crying, and the nurse told me she was going to give me antibiotics to get rid of it, but she also told me not to worry too much, because they are able to get a sense of how long the infection has been present, and I have had the chalmydia for approximately 6 months.'' Then sadly shake your head and start to cry (that won't be acting, I presume).

Of course the 'science' is bullshit (I think?!). But in the moment he'll be panicking so much, he will believe it's possible and really won't have much choice but to admit it. Unless he's one of those annoying people who continue to deny the very blatant to their dying breath.

AnyFucker Wed 26-Jun-13 21:36:07

I think the latter going off past performance, waddle

Spartacus101 Wed 26-Jun-13 21:45:12

God Waddle, wish I'd had you around when my ex husband had an STI that the dr 'told him' he could have caught off a toilet seat or towel hmm Obviously I knew it was BS but I wish I'd used your tactics smile

SoggySummer Wed 26-Jun-13 21:45:23

OH dear - he is spinning you a massive web of deceit and lies. Anything to save his bacon.

Wake up and smell the coffee. You are prolonging the misery and the pain.

I know its never balck and white when its your life but

SoggySummer Wed 26-Jun-13 21:46:08

oops sorry posted too soon.

But - the evidence is all there, its just too painful for you to fully accept it without his admission.

AThingInYourLife Thu 27-Jun-13 10:29:43

You don't even need the lie about "they can tell when you got the infection".

Just say they screened you when you were pregnant and you didn't have it then.

But I think waddle's idea is not bad if you actually need to hear him admit he's a liar and won't trust your own brain to see the bleeding obvious.

lottieandmia Thu 27-Jun-13 11:54:18

OP how long have you been together? He sounds pathetic tbh. The shaking and nervous twitch are sure signs that much more has been going on between them than email and texting. He must feel very guilty indeed to have physiological reactions of this kind.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Thu 27-Jun-13 12:01:09

He has never talked so much, opened up so freely!

He's known all along what he's jeopardised. Emotional or physical affair, it's a hammer blow. You can't pull him back from the brink if he's jumping on the edge. According to him he nearly told you about her last week. "Don't be cross with me Mummy I tried to be good". Cue tears. Pat tummy.

The timing is worth considering. He'll be woolly on that. He must hope OW doesn't copy you in. She might yet.

He knew the risk. Is he claiming this was a diversion from your depression or his? The implied carer fatigue was a twist of the knife. Shining armour decidedly duller now.

Let him talk but listen and spot the gaps or evasions.

bullinthesea Sat 29-Jun-13 08:59:34

He's finally admitted it, he shagged her.

EliotNess Sat 29-Jun-13 08:59:55


Oh bull, how painful. He is such a twat.

JamieOliveOil Sat 29-Jun-13 09:11:54

Oh shit. How are doing? Come and talk when you're ready.

cocolepew Sat 29-Jun-13 09:22:12

I've been following this thread, so sorry it has turned out this way.

TDada Sat 29-Jun-13 09:24:18

Sorry about this. Really sorry. It sounded as though you love each other earlier in the thread and I was wishing you well on the road to recovery. I hope that you find solution that gives you peace and happiness.

GetStuffezd Sat 29-Jun-13 09:31:07

Another one who's been following. I really am sorry. What a bastard to lie to your face. Do you have a friend available?

KnittedC Sat 29-Jun-13 09:39:11

Oh no, I've been following this thread too and was hoping you were ok. So sorry to hear this. Offering you a hand to hold if you'd like.

ChasedByBees Sat 29-Jun-13 09:45:39

I'm so sorry. How are you feeling?

98percentchocolate Sat 29-Jun-13 10:12:50

So, so sorry. Can you go for a walk to get some air and take some time away from him?

Xales Sat 29-Jun-13 10:39:33

At least now you know.

It's shit and nasty but you are not looking at him knowing he is lying and going crazy because you can't prove it.

Right now he has to become the lowest thing on you list of priorities.

He has put himself first. He has been crying and sad and hurt for himself and being caught out. Not because he hurt you.

Now is the time for you to look after you. Take care of yourself and make sure you get the help and support you need from any source. Friends, family or counselling.

Go and see a solicitor and CAB. If you decide to try and work on you relationship you won't need to use is however knowledge is power and you will not be as scared of other options if you know where you stand.

RinseAndRepeat Sat 29-Jun-13 10:39:37

I'm sorry OP. I've just read the whole thread and I'm afraid the writing was on the wall from the start.

What do you want to do now?

Sariah Sat 29-Jun-13 10:43:35

Glad he came clean op. At least now you can decide from a position of truth what is best for you. Sorry you had to go through this. Hope you are OK.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Sat 29-Jun-13 10:45:07

Very sorry bullinthesea.

How could he put you through this.

tessa6 Sat 29-Jun-13 10:48:03

There is absolutely no reason to keep the emails from you unless he has something to hide. Protecting you is just a cheater's euphemism for protecting me. He will have them somewhere, if there are at least as many as he says, he will have forwarded them to a secret email account or set up one specifically for the purpose. Do not collude in your own deception by buying into the idea he is protecting YOU instead of him and his mistress.

TurnipCake Sat 29-Jun-13 10:49:46

I'm sorry OP, but deep down I think you knew he was a lying cheating sack of shit from the start and you did your utmost to believe the best of him.

Whatever happens, now is the time to make you the priority. To hell with what he thinks, wants or needs. At this time you don't need his simpering, snivelling face in your presence, let alone your lap.

captainmummy Sat 29-Jun-13 11:05:06

Xales is right. And turnipcake. You knew deep down.

What a shit.

And agree, put yourself first. Sod what he wants. What do you want?

So sad

lottieandmia Sat 29-Jun-13 11:29:23

angry that he has put you through this. Do you even know that he has ended it? If it was me I think I would want him out but know it often isn't that simple.

Do you think you will be able to get over an affair?

So he's been having an affair for over six months, it only finished when you found out, he swore on his sons life it wasn't physical, he begged you to keep it secret....
He really is a shit.
Please get as much rl support as you can to get you through this. He cant be trusted.

Hopasholic Sat 29-Jun-13 11:39:22

So sorry OP. So not only has he proved he's a cheating shit, he's told you bare face lies and put the health of both you and your baby at risk.

I think, given how you come across in your posts, that you may have been able to get over this had he been honest from the start but the blatant lies really would be the final straw.

Swearing on kids lives eh? Means nothing to him.

Ask him to leave and get some space flowers

Get rid of this loser, he is a lying, cheating baffoon and a coward.
He needs a golden globe for his acting skills, and a one way ticket out of your life for swearing on his own childs life!!!-does that mean nothing to him?

You deserve better than this imbosile, don't fall for any more of his excuses and his acting is just that, acting. Don't be his red carpet, don't allow him to walk all over you with lies and deception, & never ever feel sorry for him, he made his bed, he can lie in it!!

evelynj Sat 29-Jun-13 12:08:50

Hugs to you. Time to look at the practical side for a bit I think. Move him out while you have some time to think things through, (before reading the admission I was going to suggest a Jeremy Kyle style lie detector test).

Sorry, I'm confused about the background. Is 7 yo DS his son? And, are you pregnant now or were you referring to 7 yr ago or subsequent pg?

He's made everything so much worse by more lies & harder for you to know if there's any way for you to recover from this. I know most people will say end it and get rid but only you can decide & it's a very difficult time when you've had an unexpected bout of depression. There is a lot of help on here so please keep posting, take what you like from the replies and leave the rest.

I'll be thinking of you x

Leavenheath Sat 29-Jun-13 12:17:47

You say he's been working with this woman for 'years' and he says she 'tried to kiss him' years ago but he declined.

In the light of this new information, I'd be wondering whether this has been going on for years and years, in some form or another and whether this was indeed the cause of your depression.

There's another thread at the moment about an affair that's been going on for 10 years. Lots of people assumed the wife knew, but lots of people pointed out that there was no evidence at all to suggest that she did. I did wonder whether that poor woman had been feeling a bit rubbish for 10 years though, without ever really knowing the cause of it sad.

I'm not sure how you'd ever prove when this first started, but I wouldn't trust the timescale he gives you at all. Maybe think back to what your relationship was like after that (probably reciprocated) kiss.

lovesfastcars Sat 29-Jun-13 12:30:19

So sorry, I know exactly how you feel. The worst part for me was the constant bloody lying on top of the initial shock.
Mine tried to pretend that he was 'protecting me' from further hurt, but was clearly trying to save his own arse!
Please get some RL support, a friend you trust, a relative maybe? Visit your GP if you are struggling, take some time off work if you need to.
Above all take care of yourself and DC (sorry can't remember if you have any)
Get him to leave, even if for a short while, or as long as you need to give you some headspace. this REALLY helped me,although it was initially hard. It helped me to think more calmly and clearly, and made him see the cold harsh reality of his actions.
We had a relate session, which I personally did not find helpful (and v expensive) The councillor my GP referred me to has been amazing though. I know some people have benefited from M guidence though so not dissing it at all.
Whatever works for you really, whichever way it goes.Baby steps to get through the hours,days etc initially. Do things that make you feel good, however small. Lovely bubbly bath with a glass of wine maybe, new hairstyle, clothes, music etc.
There is no rush to make any decisions either way just yet about the future, take everything at your own pace while you are absorbing the shock of it all.Plenty of time to sort out the route you want to take when you feel stronger.
Sorry if this is rambly and not massively helpful, but I can really identfy with what you are going through.

Elkieb Sat 29-Jun-13 18:50:21

Coming out of lurking to say that I am so sorry this is happening and I hope you have some real life support.

bullinthesea Sat 29-Jun-13 19:49:17

Thanks so much for all the supportive posts ladiessmile

It's been an unbearably hard day.

I'll try & get back to any questions soon when I'm a bit more with it wink.

Believe it or not, I texted my Mum last week with the details, and was shocked when she replied "sometimes you've got to fight for your man" and "you've got to think about how leaving him would affect DS". Not very supportive really.

GetStuffezd Sat 29-Jun-13 19:54:31

Not fucking supportive at all. sad What a shame to get that response when you've taken the plunge and asked for support. We're all here when you're ready.

Blimey, definetly not supportive, nevee should you stay in a marriage just for the children, it won't work.
That's a very old fashioned view your mother has, please take no notice.
It's better to have two parents living apart that are happy than having both under one roof that are miserable and unhappy.

RinseAndRepeat Sat 29-Jun-13 19:59:44

Hollow lol @ 'fight for your man'.

Yeah right, what a prize he is!

RinseAndRepeat Sat 29-Jun-13 20:00:51

sad for you that your mum doesn't want better for you.

JackAranda Sat 29-Jun-13 20:18:48

i'm so sorry your worst suspicions have been correct

But as others have said, you kind of knew anyway and at least now its out in the open... and so you can make some choices and decisions. better than superficially repairing your marriage with unknown betrayal beneath the surface...

What are you going to do ?

lazarusb Sat 29-Jun-13 20:19:41

Delurking to reinforce that he really isn't worth fighting for. I'm sorry you're enduring this pain. He has put himself first over and over.

FWIW, I got a lot of negative comments when I left my abusive ex. Sometimes people lack empathy & understanding to an unbelievable degree.

tessa6 Sat 29-Jun-13 20:33:44

bull, never forget that people hate change, particularly older people. When my sister went through her divorce, our parents were horribly unsupportive because they had no model for it and frankly, they didn't welcome the emotional and practical avalanche that was falling on them from all sides (child care and vulnerability.) They just didn't want to have to worry about my sister and their grandchildren, and they saw the maintenance of the status quo as the way that would suit that best.

Others go into shock too when they're told about it, just like the innocent partner, and the first thing they try and do is hold things together. That doesn't mean it's the right, or healthiest choice to make for the long run.

tessa6 Sat 29-Jun-13 20:34:47

Just to add, they are now massively supportive and everyone is really happy, post-divorce. They were just afraid of it. But now the kids are settled and the arrangements all make sense (who picks up who from school when etc) they both pretend they think she made the right choice(!)

Twattergy Sat 29-Jun-13 20:44:45

I'm glad you have your truth OP. But sorry he has done this to you.

myroomisatip Sat 29-Jun-13 20:55:28

De lurking also, to say he is not worth fighting for! Blimey! I am a bit shocked at that response and I doubt I am far from your mothers age!!! angry

I am so sorry you are going through this. I have been through a horrendous relationship with my STBXH, he was abusive in many ways, but the worst he did in that respect (AFAIK) was flirt and that was bad enough!

Take care of yourself ((hug))

lottieandmia Sat 29-Jun-13 20:56:29

Sorry to hear that your mum came up with such an unsupportive response. The very person you needed on your side I expect sad

captainmummy Sat 29-Jun-13 21:05:16

'Sometimes you have to fight for your man'??? Why? If he is a shit why would you fight for him?

'you've got to think about how leaving him would affect DS' - Sorry? If you leave dh, it is DH's fault that this would affect ds. Not yours. HE should have thought about how it 'will affect ds'.


Gruntfuttock Sat 29-Jun-13 21:05:34

I'm appalled at your mother's response. So sorry you are going through this OP.

lemonstartree Sat 29-Jun-13 21:40:28

I am also appalled at you mother's response to you asking for help ( I am assuming you told her you H has been having an affair - even if you did not her response is shite)

Did he tell you he had shagged her ? or did you find out ?

I really hope you are ok. I know everyone has been saying from the beginning that he must have had a physical affair - but having it confirmed is particularly awful...

flowers and wine

YoniMatopoeia Sat 29-Jun-13 21:42:58

Have you thought about what you want to happen now?

You don't have to make any decisions.. in fact now is not a great time for making decisions.

The standard advice, which I agree with, is to ask him to go and stay somewhere else for a week, to give you some space and headroom.

You also need some rl support. Maybe the friend you mentioned earlier?

onefewernow Sun 30-Jun-13 00:03:52

Bull, can I say from experience that you will know in hindsight when it started. My H was online securing for over 5 years and I couldn't out my finger on it.

When I finally got really suspicious and forced a confession out of him, I asked about a particular weekend away we had, when it had always stuck in my mind that he was suddenly talking about us "being adrift and in different paths". He had started earlier that month.

Just think back.

Oh and expect your depression to date from around the same time.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Sun 30-Jun-13 00:58:35

You won't follow your mum's advice though. You are beyond that initial shock and even when you first wrote here, you knew a physical affair would cross a line. Loving him a great deal wasn't enough for him. To what length are you meant to go when he throws it back in your face? He gave little thought to you or DS. He took one step then another, all by himself.

ChipsNEggs Sun 30-Jun-13 06:21:19

I'm so sorry its come to this but glad you have the truth.

Why is it we always hear that a woman has to fight for her man and never the other way round?

Didn't come out in all those open and honest chats you had though did it? You thought you were both opening your souls and he was lying through his teeth. Everything he said was bollocks.

No man is a prize worth fighting and debasing yourself over, especially this one. He has been proven to be a liar and a cheat. I'd put money on him already trying to twist this so you're to blame too.

What makes it worse is he was obviously very worried something would come up on the STI test. I'd be surprised if she was the only one and he clearly hasn't been using protection. He wasn't sorry at all when putting your health at risk.

He sounds like utter scum, you and your DS would benefit from not being around such a self centered individual.

You sound like a lovely caring person and you deserve so much more.

AgathaF Sun 30-Jun-13 06:29:53

Really sorry your fears have turned out to be true. It's a shame you mum hasn't been more supportive in helping you find out what you want to do about this.

YoniMatopoeia Sun 30-Jun-13 07:39:29

Just in case he is following the script, and has started to blame you (and pretty much all of them try this)


It is very common that the straying partner comes out with stuff like 'you seemed really distant', 'you were concentrating so much on the dc, you had no attention for me' etc etc. To try to justify their actions. You have to remember at all times that it was him, not you. Nothing you did, or did not do caused him to have this affair. It was all his choice.

Hope you are ok.

Wowserz129 Sun 30-Jun-13 08:29:51

OP this man sounds like a manipulative cheating coward. At best he needs to leave your home for a few weeks to give you space to decide what to do. Please don't let him get away with it. Hope your okay hmm

clam Sun 30-Jun-13 09:28:19

I wouldn't "fight for" some low-life cheating bastard who took my feelings and loyalty and stamped on them with both feet. How can you ever get that back?

lottieandmia Sun 30-Jun-13 09:33:11

I cannot believe the 1950's attitude from the OP's mother. As if you just have to put up and shut up and hope he doesn't leave shock

'Why is it we always hear that a woman has to fight for her man and never the other way round?' I totally agree. The OP deserves better and her DH is the one who should be fighting for her.

lazarusb Sun 30-Jun-13 12:38:51

Unfortunately some people still view men/husbands as a 'prize'. My cousin's h left her suddenly with 2 young children about 18 months ago. Every single person (including her) held the view that he should come back, no matter what he'd done, without any recriminations, because the most important thing was them being back together.

All the time I was telling her about securing herself financially, getting checked for STIs etc. He came back after a couple of months 'away' in another town. He spent 2 nights on the sofa, then he was back in the marital bed.

Everyone (except me) was happy. Nothing has been challenged and therefore nothing has been resolved. My cousin is on eggshells trying to be 'perfect'. I've just posted this to illustrate that your Mum's opinion isn't unusual, no matter the generation, but I do feel it is unhealthy. I hope my cousin is truly happy but I can't help feeling that this will crash down to earth at some point.

Take care OP. You have a lot of people supporting you here.

Wellwobbly Sun 30-Jun-13 15:56:31

Now do the next thing I did not do (which let him know he had gotten away with it according to IC) - ask him to leave, because you have some thinking to do.

AnyFucker Sun 30-Jun-13 17:04:50

I am very sorry, OP.

Pinkdaisy4 Sun 30-Jun-13 22:28:15

I'm so sorry OP. nothing to add but these flowers and my hand to hold.

newbiefrugalgal Sun 30-Jun-13 22:58:15

Sorry OP that news sucks.

Hope he has left the home this weekend to give you the space you need.

Want to hear my dads reaction when I told him about my partners affair? 'These things happen.'
That was it! Bloody hell no they don't just happen!

onefewernow Mon 01-Jul-13 08:53:09

Family can be useless when you are in this sort of situation. My sisters were all " it's no big deal, get over it" after a few weeks. My brother was all for me leaving, then I heard he was having an affair himself.

Take your own counsel. To be fair, most affair advisers don't actually know what they are talking about, and their advice just stems from how they would imagine they would act in your situation. That, or what they think is in their own interests, sometimes, especially parents.

I hope you are coping today, OP.

lovesfastcars Mon 01-Jul-13 10:03:11

My mum was the same. She was actually more bothered about what people would 'think' I reckon.
Filter out any crap advice if you can, and do whatever feels right for you, at your own pace.
Come back and let us know you're ok if you can

DonutForMyself Mon 01-Jul-13 10:05:38

Your family have a vested interest in keeping the family together, there's none of that awkward 'taking sides' business and they won't have to worry about who to send Xmas cards to and who gets invited to family occasions, they can just merrily go on exactly the same as before without it affecting their daily life if you stay together.

For you its a totally different matter as you are living with this every day of your life. They don't understand and tbh, they don't matter. If they're not there for 100% unwavering support they can piss off.

Its awful that at a time when you need your mum to be there for you, she has let you down, but there are others (including the lovely MNers) who will hold your hand and give you advice regardless of the path you choose, because they want you to do what is best for you, not your cheating lying ex or your mum.

skyeskyeskye Mon 01-Jul-13 11:38:10

bull - I am sorry that it has come to this, but it was obvious from the emails that it had crossed the line... but while your H continued to lie, of course you wanted to believe him.

My Xh walked out and I begged him to come back, even after discovering thousands of texts/emails, because I was in a state of shock. I think if I had discovered the texts first, it would have been a different story...

It is your marriage and only YOU can decide what you want to do next. I think that you do need to ask him to leave while you decide what you want. That is good advice from people who have been there. You need time to process what has happened.

ChloeR32 Mon 01-Jul-13 12:03:29

I agree with everyone else - and as horrible as it is to say - I think that there is some pre-emptive 'cover-up' going on; rather than go all out with full sexual references they simply alluded to activities that he could then attempt to wiggle out of by saying it was all innocent. The effect of that is that you are left questioning what really went on and the part of you that doesn't want it to be true starts to believe that he's telling the truth.
I agree with most other posters though - an EA is sometimes as destructive as a physical one and I think you know what the truth is. Its just too hard to believe.
Its up to you to do what you think is best and no matter the advice give (great though it is) follow what you want - it might end up in the crapper - but at least its been your choice.
Also - from one who didn't do this - make a stand for independence and get a part-time job it will really open up your world. i only did this recently after 14yrs and i wish I'd done it earlier.
Good luck
C x

sureitis Mon 01-Jul-13 16:34:15

Thinking of you OP. Cannot imagine what you're going through at the moment.

Make sure you do what is right for you and not what is right for everyone else. You have to live this life, no one else.

bullinthesea Tue 02-Jul-13 15:14:50

Just a little update.

He says all the sex happened before I got ill, so it was a few years ago.

Trouble is, all those e-mails have been going on ever since, and I struggle to believe they weren't referencing sexual encounters.
The ones I found (mentioned in my first post) were quite recent. I think he's trying to minimise the extent of it, and that it's been going on for years.

I even suspect that it might have been happening when I was pregnant, but can't be sure (DS is 7).

So what he's trying to say, is that - it was physical - then they stopped but carried on sending sexually suggestive e-mails in the years afterwards - he had no feelings for her - yet he was emailing her from his hospital appointment - he didn't enjoy the sex, yet he went back more than once....

Also, she sent a present when my son was born - I thought it a bit odd, and said at the time that I didn't realise he knew her that well for her to get a nice gift like that. It's been up on my sons wall all these years hmm not any more though.

It just doesn't add up really.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Tue 02-Jul-13 15:19:26

I'm sure he has an answer for everything. It just may be neither truthful nor accurate.

From your first post on this thread:
I asked if he thought she might have a bit of a thing for him, and he paused and said, "yeah, probably"


MadAboutHotChoc Tue 02-Jul-13 15:33:42

Bloody hell - so he has been having an affair for several years? shock

So sorry OP. I don't think I could ever come back from such a massive betrayal - such a terrible headfuck to realise all those years were a sham.

AgathaF Tue 02-Jul-13 15:44:07

So he's carried on his affair for years - emotionally and initially (if he is to be believed) physically. And even when the physical stuff stopped (yeah, right!), he still needed to be emotionally connected to her. He happily received a gift for your son and allowed it to be put up on the wall.

Has this man no conscience or morals?

Xales Tue 02-Jul-13 15:58:30

It just doesn't add up really.

It does add up. Just to not a very nice picture. Sorry sad

gillywillywoo Tue 02-Jul-13 16:06:30

I'm so sorry OP thanks
What an utter cunt.

lazarusb Tue 02-Jul-13 16:57:10

I'm really sorry OP. I can't imagine how painful and insulting this is. If it isn't a stupid question, how are you feeling? Are you eating & looking after yourself. Hope you have some RL support and are taking comfort in your little boy.

bullinthesea Tue 02-Jul-13 17:24:26

Can anyone point me to some info about 'the script' that some people have mentioned?

lovesfastcars Tue 02-Jul-13 17:53:54

Try googling 'The script, infidelity '. Gives quite a few sites with some info.
There is actually a book called 'The Script' all about it. I think Amazon sell it, but I have not read it so can't really say if it is any good or not.
There is also a site called 'Surviving infidelity ' which although from USA, I found really helpful.
Hope you are ok (as far as you can be at the moment)

Lilly3000 Tue 02-Jul-13 18:13:00

Bullinthesea, very sorry to hear this. Something very similar happened to me and my DH nearly 2 years ago after over 20 years together. Devastating is an understatement. A drunken one night stand is one thing, but an emotional affair is about a betrayal of intimacy and trust. The former would have caused me a lot less pain.

It is possible for everything to be ok again - actually much better - but certain things have to be faced.

1.He must cut her out of his life utterly, completely, without exception, mercy or remorse.
2.He has to understand that whilst no relationship problems are one-sided, he CHOSE to do this and that has nothing to do with you. Accept NO blame. Your problems could have been sorted out without this.
3. Keeping your marriage exclusive is an ongoing process that is an active one, not a passive one i.e people can only worm their way in if you let them.

Shirley Glass' book is very good. I'm not going to go on and on about how he might be lying - only you can know that. You can only trust your instinct. I would give you a hug if I could. It will be alright. The worst place was in the dark. xxxx

captainmummy Tue 02-Jul-13 18:22:34

So what he's trying to say, is that - it was physical - then they stopped yeah, right! but carried on sending sexually suggestive e-mails in the years afterwards yeah, because the sex hadn't stopped! he had no feelings for her - yet he was emailing her from his hospital appointment HA! - he didn't enjoy the sex, yet he went back more than once well, words fail me.

This is an old, years old affair. But then, you know that, OP....

Hope you are ok.

skyeskyeskye Tue 02-Jul-13 18:28:35

sadly I have it saved in favourites, as it comes up time and again sad

it is written with a pinch of salt, but is sadly oh so true

Somethingtothinkabout Tue 02-Jul-13 18:42:59

Keeping your marriage exclusive is an ongoing process that is an active one, not a passive one i.e people can only worm their way in if you let them

Lily, that's a really good quote. One I will remember too.

So sorry Bull, give yourself some space from him whilst you get your head around it.

tessa6 Tue 02-Jul-13 19:05:01

I'm afraid the fact he is still obviously minimising (obviously, OP, you even know it yourself and you have all the reason in the world to want to trust him) indicates he's a real instinctive liar and a coward. What a shame. The truth does ten to eke out with any cheat but this is pretty shocking. It's clearly a long term affair spanning years. There may have been months when they didn't meet up and they only texted or emailed but that would have been because of practical reasons they couldn't probably and then it would restart when they could. It's clear they were referencing sexual encounters. He's lying and I don't know how you can trust him again if he's prepared to try so woefully and desperately to save his own skin over your marriage.

onefewernow Tue 02-Jul-13 20:01:45

I do not believe the physical side had elapsed, given the continued contact and the type of contact.

He is still lying. You must be exhausted.

Not that he cares.

Can you see even how two weeks ago he was taking comfort from you, and reward in the form of you "working on the relationship", whilst he was lying. And whilst you were in shock, as it was new information about your marriage to you, unlike him.

He was prepared to see you so sad, lie on, and take more from you.

He is a selfish git, isn't he?

Lilly3000 Tue 02-Jul-13 21:01:55

Bull, I've read all of the posts now. My heart breaks for you. This isn't an emotional affair at all. It's an old flame that's kept alight by the oxygen of illicit thrill. He has been a stupid, cowardly fool. He knows he doesn't really want her (or he'd have seized the opportunity to go when you found out) and is now filled with shame and panic at the possibility of losing everything. A serial deceiver, he probably almost wanted to be found out in order to purge his conscience. Does he have 'mummy issues' by any chance?
This is all very bad. I think he needs some time on his own to sob and wring his hands on his own time. Go on holiday with your little one, spend his money, tell him you don't know when - or indeed if - you are coming back. Don't worry, he will regret this all his long days and the OW isn't real competition because she isn't you. She's a feckless flake (buying your baby a gift ffs!) and he won't like looking at his own reflection of tawdry betrayal. You need some space to be able to think straight. You may decide you want him back, you may not. You are in the driving seat. Be courageous xxx

MadAboutHotChoc Wed 03-Jul-13 07:42:44

How are you OP?

I would start finding out what you are entitled to legally and financially - you may feel stronger when you know that you will be ok.

Bull, I hope you are keeping as strong as possible. It would seem you have uncovered a huge secret, but it's the deceit and timescale that would blow me sideways. Only you can make the right decision for you, but you have my unreserved support. I hope your Mum sees sense and remembers that her daughter and grandchildren are who she should care about. Unmumsnetty hugs to you.

lazarusb Wed 03-Jul-13 09:24:45

The baby present is particularly sticking in my craw - despite everything else, he let that sit in your child's room all this time knowing what he did. He is a coward, pathetic beyond words.

Wellwobbly Wed 03-Jul-13 13:55:45

he had no feelings for her - yet he was emailing her from his hospital appointment - he didn't enjoy the sex, yet he went back more than once....

I got told all that, word for word 'I never loved her, the sex was terrible'. (It took over two years for him to admit he was 'fond' of her).

It is all LIES. Look at the postings of the OWs here. They all say to a woman 'the sex is nothing I have experienced before'. They lie to you AND they lie to OW.

Just the other day, after I found he was still in touch w OW, I asked him 'why did you not tell me you had lingering feelings for OW?' He gave me a nasty look and said something along the lines of 'what would you have done to me punishment/anger wise'. Now, THAT sentence was truthful, because in all the blaming of me he did not deny he still had feelings for OW.. 'the unified theory of cake' is what you must read. This isn't about love, you v her. This is about him getting everything. Wifey and homelife, AND his exciting as well.

Is your mysterious depression starting to make a bit more sense now?

Wellwobbly Wed 03-Jul-13 13:57:35

I hope this snivelling liar is giving you some space op. he has been having an affair for years.
Can you get over that?

YoniMatopoeia Wed 03-Jul-13 18:30:37

How are you doing bull?

lottieandmia Wed 03-Jul-13 18:43:56

'Keeping your marriage exclusive is an ongoing process that is an active one, not a passive one i.e people can only worm their way in if you let them'

I don't agree with this at all. It seems to say that it is partly your responsibility to make sure your husband or wife doesn't have an affair. If someone wants to have an affair they will do it regardless of whether someone else is trying to worm their way in or not. People don't always have affairs because there is anything wrong with their marriage.

ShinyBlackShoes Wed 03-Jul-13 20:32:52

My ex had an affair that started when I was pregnant with DC1 or just before. I found out and 18 months later left. I took the kids and left everything else and even room the blame for leaving. Couldn't stand th sight, sound, smell, touch, even thought of him.

It has been a long and hard road for me, but I have no regrets. He is happil with his OW so also has no regrets.

Only you can decide what to do and there are pros and cons to any decision. But do look after yourself whatever because you need to look to yourself so you can be a good mum.
Good luck

WhiteBirdBlueSky Wed 03-Jul-13 23:40:03

If an affair had fizzled out you don't carry on sending suggestive texts. That's just daft. Nobody does that.

bullinthesea Thu 04-Jul-13 10:10:51

The thing he keeps saying to me, is that "if things had been ok between us, then it wouldn't have happened". I'm so infuriated by this, that I told him not to blame me, and that if he thought there were problems between us, that he should have put his energies into improving our relationship, not going elsewhere.

He went to visit his mum the other night, and told her what's been going on. She came to visit me at home yesterday, and one of the first things she said was "well, things have been building up for a while haven't they?"
(She also expressed concern for the effect it could have on his career. I replied that he should have thought of that before doing what he did.
I imagine it could well be a sackable offence - they both work in a school, and if he's to believed, it all took place in the school, during the school day (in a locked school shop) - nice.)

Yes, there was some distance happening between us, I felt neglected and like he had lost interest in me, and that it seemed he only wanted me for sex a lot of the time.

During that time, I was reading books on improving the marriage, and doing my best to work at things from my side, whilst he was obviously detaching from me and concentrating on the OW (I assume).

He says he wants to work on the marriage, he has told me he's sorry over & over, and that he regrets everything, and that it's me he wants. He says he loves me dearly, and that he wants to make me happy, and that our relationship will be better than ever etc etc...that what he's done is wrong, there are no excuses for his behaviour (at least he's acknowledging it).
He says that all he wanted all along, was just to be close to me, and that we need to catch up on the last 5years, as they've been wasted years.
He hasn't been able to remember exactly when the affair started (yeah right), but he's mentioned 5years a couple of times in regards to our relationship, so I'm wondering if that's how long the affair has been going on, but he just won't admit it.
He has admitted that he has been 'closed off' from me emotionally, and that it's due to what his ex did, and that he's protecting himself, as he's been scared all this time that I'd leave him. WTF, so now it's his ex's fault??

He begging me for another chance, and saying that he hopes I can forgive him one day.

Also, (sorry for this long ramble) about the carpet burns comment, he now says that it was a reference about me and him!!! Why on earth would he discuss 'whether or not he'd got carpet burns with me' - with her?

And with regards to the "I feel better now" "yeah me too, lets meet on Weds for a follow up" comment, he now says he'd given her a shoulder massage - whatever....

I have told a few friends now, and they are all shocked.

I am all over the place at the moment, one minute I'm sad, the next I'm angry, then fearful for the future, it's such a mix of emotions.
I'm finding it difficult to eat, but I am managing some food.
I went down to the CAB yesterday to make a start on finding out where I'd stand if we split.

I know that some people do recover from affairs, and that they manage to repair their relationships, but like someone said, it's the deceit & the timescale that really are killing me, and that fact he swore on my sons life is just beyond belief.

Wellwobbly - yes my depression may well be down to this. I'm finding it hard to take it all in.

Lilly3000 - he may well have 'mummy issues', and I think you're right, he may have wanted to purge his conscience.

Onefewernow - yes, I am exhausted! Yes, he is selfish.

So to sum up, I feel terrible, I'm afraid for mine & DS's future, I've re-read this thread, as you all talk a lot of sense.
The reality of it all still hasn't fully sunk in, it feels like everything has all been a lie - birthdays, anniversaries, Xmas, valentines etc, and our everyday lives, holidays together etc - he knew all along, I didn't.

I'm completely devastated beyond words.

LookingForwardToMarch Thu 04-Jul-13 10:14:51

Knees = an injoke about a knee trembler?

Carpet burns?

Sorry OP from what you have written there it is plain as day that this definitely got very physical

LookingForwardToMarch Thu 04-Jul-13 10:17:30

Very sorry op, replied before reading the rest of the thread blush

Wellwobbly Thu 04-Jul-13 10:21:38

Bull, when you find out the complete extent to which you have been betrayed, there really is nothing more devastating. NOTHING can ever hurt me as much as this, having your love trust and life ripped away from you - by the one person you loved, trusted and lived with. It is - people who are lucky enough to not experience this just can have no idea.

Well done for telling people. His little world is going to suddenly become very small.

"I felt neglected and like he had lost interest in me, and that it seemed he only wanted me for sex a lot of the time.

During that time, I was reading books on improving the marriage, and doing my best to work at things from my side, whilst he was obviously detaching from me" ...

Absolutely! My shelves were lined with self help books [all thrown away] as he detached more and more. He literally only touched me for sex. Then he started actively looking, and poor OW was the idiot who responded. 'If it wasn't her, it would have been somebody else'. His words.

This really is about them.

Sorry to be cynical Bull, but I got that speech as well. Please do what I didn't do - ask him to leave so you can have space to think.

I fell for the speech, and within months my IC observed: he has found out that there is no consequence. ie, he has gotten away with it.

skyeskyeskye Thu 04-Jul-13 10:26:16

Bull - when you find out about deceit on that level, the shock is just so difficult to deal with.

Only you can decide if you are able to, or even want to save your marriage. Your H can say all these things, but he has to really want to as well. You would need counselling together and separately probably. He would need to cut all contact with this woman and change his job so that he doesn't come into contact with her at work. I don't see how you can believe a single word that he says though now.

If they have been doing these things at work, then they are both abusing their positions and could well lose their jobs. What if they had been caught by a pupil? Were they supposed to be working when they were meeting up? They would be in big trouble and they know it.

As for his mother, well she is obviously going to stand by her son and she will believe whatever he tells her too.

He can blame as many people as he wants, and they all trot out the line, "well things cant have been right or I wouldnt have done it....." It is bullshit. If things aren't right, you should talk to your partner, not turn to somebody else for escapism.

I don't think that I could get over the level of deceit that your H has shown you, but as I said, it is your marriage and something that only you can decide.

Get your legal advice, find out exactly where you stand on everything. it will make you stronger and less afraid of the future too.

DuelingFanjo Thu 04-Jul-13 10:26:32

Yes, I would ask him to move out too. And you should be speaking to as many people as you can about this, stuff him. Get support where you can and don't let his mother make this all your fault.

OMG, Bull, he is still lying to you, he is still treating you like an idiot as he has done for the last 5 years (or more)
Of course, they have been shagging all this time, basically they have been having a relationship, sharing intimate thoughts and ideas for years.
His texts clearly refer to sex - shoulder massage - who does he think he is?
He won't show you the emails.
He texted her the moment you found out.
He begged you to keep it secret.
Yet, he is still insistent that there was a problem with you/with the marriage, with anything but him. How can you even stand to have him in the house with you?
Really, he is the worse kind of person because even now, he can't tell you the truth. I expect he is blubbing to his mummy about how bad you've treated him. He really is pathetic.

MadAboutHotChoc Thu 04-Jul-13 10:41:48

Hugs from here - such a terrible bombshell to try and come to terms withsad

If he is really sorry and wants to work on the marriage then he needs to be 100% honest and open. Sounds like he isn't prepared to tell the whole truth so there is no point in trying.

How fucking dare he blame you - he CHOSE to behave in this way instead of sorting things out.

skyeskyeskye Thu 04-Jul-13 10:45:17

Wobbly is right. You do need to ask him to move out. I never had that option because I discovered the texts/emails etc after he had moved out, and at that point I was so devastated and in such shock, that I begged him to come back. I threw my dignity out of the window and just begged him to try again. I was in such a state of shock because he left with no warning, no buildup of problems or anything, that I just didn't handle the situation well at all.

You need to ask him to move out, so that you can have the space to be on your own, and work out what you want to do. It will also make you see what life would be like on your own, and it will make him see what he has thrown away.

My XH was the one person that I trusted most in life. I adored him. I trusted that he would never leave me and that he would never deceive me with another woman. If the one person that you trust most in the whole world can treat you like that, it destroys your trust in everything.

The one thing that you can do now is to take control of the situation. and yes, tell as many of your friends and family as you want, so that they too can be disgusted by his behaviour and hopefully support you.

FrequentFlyerRandomDent Thu 04-Jul-13 10:57:17

shock at his mum. But it means that he and she are scared.

I am sorry you are going through this. Do get legal advice and time to think.

LaurenGB Thu 04-Jul-13 12:25:52

In al honesty, I think you need space. Lots of space. Whilst he is feeling all sorry for himself and apologising ask him to leave and give you space. Do not give him a time frame, just ask him to leave to give you time to think.

Dont contact him, and concentrate on you and your DC.

This is what I did - albeit to a very different set of circumstances, and no where near the deception you have had to suffer. I found it made me calmer not having him around and a little easier to think about how to process everything.

Thinking of you, and wishing there were a way to bottle strength and send it over. xxx

Lilly3000 Thu 04-Jul-13 13:10:51

Hello Bull. You are grieving for something that has been lost. I know this only too well. I think if your husband - and all those husbands and wives who cheat - knew the actual emotional damage that their behaviour caused they would be genuinely appalled. In my life, like a lot of women, I have experienced rape and I have been cheated on - and the latter was much worse (if similar in some ways). You must feel as if your heart has been ripped out.

The thing is, he probably doesn't have the emotional intelligence to be able to understand any of this, focussing on his own pain and shame, seeing it as a bit of sordid nonsense that should be brushed under the carpet. His mum's reaction is very telling: it sounds like he learnt to lie and minimise at her knee. You are the only one in this sorry tale who has behaved with integrity. This may be part of the problem - he's crap so tried to paper this over by choosing a decent human being to marry. I have to say that you sound too good for him. This is very bad news for him, but actually excellent news for your future. xxxx

Jan45 Thu 04-Jul-13 13:15:03

It does sound like a physical relationship, where did the carpet burns come from?

Sorry but if a man doesn't find a female attractive then he wouldn't even bother to text her never mind alert her to your knowledge of their sordid affair. I really don't know how you trust again after this, it's basically an affair but he's making it worse by continuing to lie to you which indicates to me is he really serious about sorting out his marriage with you? You need time apart, he needs to go, definitely. Until then don't decide anything, get rid and then take your time to decide what you want, it's not about him anymore, he's had his fun.

tessa6 Thu 04-Jul-13 13:29:54

He can't' remember exactly when it started?! What absolute bollocks. Absolute total bollocks. What a coward this man is. He STILL thinks he can pick and choose his reality. That he wouldn't have cheated if you had been a better couple, that he gave her 'shoulder massage' recently. Oh god I want to vom sometimes. I can understand an affair but this bullshit TAPDANCING after the fact to try and get out of the full sight of his own reflection. It's horrible.

Don't discount the fact his mother may have known already, hence her comment.

And you discovered this. He didn't TELL you. This would have gone on years more if you hadn't.

Don't worry about the future with the children, that will be fine, whatever. But he is destroying his with this lying. What is the nature of his current contact with her. I bet he is oscillating and lying to you both.

So sorry for the pain.

TurnipCake Thu 04-Jul-13 13:35:02

This man feels like a weed slowly suffocating you. He's panicking, obviously, and upping the ante of pressure on you - all the more reason for him to leave and give you the time and space you need.

Xales Thu 04-Jul-13 14:27:58

So he was talking to a woman he has been screwing for god knows how many years about getting carpet burns with you his wife and she was still happy to be joking and sleeping with him. Don't think so.

He doesn't know when it started or how long?

The pile of bull shit surrounding your H is so high I am surprised he hasn't drowned in it! hmm

Now he is making out it is all your fault. sad

Same as some of the others I am appalled and disgusted that he would allow a present from the woman he was screwing to be displayed in your son's room all these years. How vile. That tells you every thing about his level of respect for you. Every time he walked in that room he would know who that was from and what he had done with her behind your back. What a foul man.

How dare he tell this to his mother. I bet my life he hasn't told her the full undiluted facts. Why? Because he is still not telling you the full undiluted facts so no way is he going to risk someone else knowing.

Lilly3000 Thu 04-Jul-13 14:32:12

The big problem is thus: you love him. There can't be a person on this board who doesn't know what that means. But the truth is that the person you thought you loved, didn't actually exist. Selfishly he just let you think they did.

Standing in the place of that infallible life partner is this new person, a person you probably don't even like.

Being married to a cheater is a bit like walking around in beer goggles.

( NB Lottie: I wasn't referring to the OP when I talked about it being an active rather than passive process. I was talking about the cheater with inappropriate boundaries.Things don't 'just happen': an affair is a choice, as is fidelity.)

Junebugjr Thu 04-Jul-13 16:26:55

You sound like you've been through the emotional equivalent of a car crash OP.
Dont be afraid to insist on some space to decide what YOU want to do, if he truly loves you he'll be happy to give you this. He can also have the experience of being away from his family, to fully cement the crapness of what's he's done.
I'd concentrate on practical things at the mo, a free half hr at the solicitor to see where you stand on legalities with the house, financials etc. Maybe have a look at where your finances would be if you did decide to kick him to the kerb - entitledto is a good website to use re tax credits and the like.
Personally, I would struggle to come to terms with the length and amount of deceit he's shown, what sort of person is he to do this. It's your decision, but there's much lovelier men out there than this to spend the rest of your days with.

Doha Thu 04-Jul-13 18:32:24

Just a thought and l am sorry if l am way of the mark.

Could the reason be that he is begging for another chance. l love you and only you etc is so that you don't go to the school to expose them as the cheating scum that they are.
I am sure the education authorities and parents of the pupils would just love to know what goes on during school time.
He is doing damage limitation solely to save his own skin

lottieandmia Thu 04-Jul-13 18:37:33

Oh I see Lilly - I am sorry. In that case what you say makes perfect sense.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Thu 04-Jul-13 18:43:24

"well, things have been building up for a while haven't they?"
She also expressed concern for the effect it could have on his career.

I wonder what version he gave his mum. Let me guess, "Poor me!"

A boy's best friend is his mother, after all.

onefewernow Fri 05-Jul-13 00:12:56

Maybe his mother was trying to get you to join her in the "mummy" game. That is, "Bull, are we not both worried about his career here; we should be, and not jeopardise it."

The plain answer to that us surely, yes, he has played with fire here, hasn't he? Likely it is already the subject of gossip. Whether it stops or not, it may become more public. How foolish of him."

In other words, his issue, not yours.

BarbarianMum Fri 05-Jul-13 00:51:32

Boy, he just lies and lies and lies and lies, doesn't he? <disgust>.

You however seem amazingly strong, considering the express train you've just been hit by.

Let his mum worry about him, that's her job. You are now free to make the right decisions for yourself.

Charbon Fri 05-Jul-13 01:26:06

Bullinthesea the likely reason he won't tell you when this affair started is because it would pre-date any difficulties you were having in your relationship. The repeated references to 5 years are probably designed to enter your consciousness as a time period about which you can both legitimately look back and acknowledge that there were seemingly intractable issues between you.

If you want to know the true chronology and timescale of this affair, try to find out the date they first actually met or interacted. This is now widely acknowledged to be the true starting point of affairs and it's often long before the emotional or physical affair starts in earnest.

You mentioned in one of your posts that you suspected it has been going on for 7 years because of the birthing gift.

Be prepared to consider it might be an even longer time period than that.

Your MIL won't have been told by him the real start date of this affair. She probably assumes it's been something that happened in the last 2 years at most, hence her comment that things have been building up for a while.

They have. They've been building up from the moment this affair became a thought in your husband's head.

The challenge for you and unsuspecting others (like your MIL) is that because this has been happening over such a long period of time, it can be virtually impossible to recall accurately what things were like before this all started. But that process is made even more difficult by not knowing what date to use as a starting point for that trawl through the memory banks.

You might find it helpful to get some information from sources other than your husband, who is still finding ways to distort the truth. Do you know when your husband started working with this woman for example? Is there any way you can find that information?

People react in a variety of ways to a sudden and brutal realisation that their lives were not as they seemed and it is particularly devastating to uncover such a long term betrayal. Some cope with the initial shock by experiencing an urgent and all-consuming need to check facts, dates, old diaries, phone bills or bank statements and at least part of this process is to find a comforting reliability in things that cannot lie. The over-arching motivation however is to attempt to make sense of a chunk of time for which the memories have become distorted or tainted in some way.

My advice to you is to do what you need to do and if you feel the need to bury yourself in factual details and memory joggers right now, allow that obsession. It is a very normal process. Try to get as much information from sources that cannot lie or who have no reason to and above all, get some space to think however you achieve that. Unless you are certain now that you cannot forgive such long-term duplicity, don't be rushed by anyone into making any firm decisions.

You might want to regard this phase as the information-gathering period when it is as important to gain a true sense of the past however many years of your life, as it is to make decisions about the future.

onefewernow Fri 05-Jul-13 10:00:42

I agree with Charbon.

Bull, my own H was unfaithful via the net for at least 5 and a half years. He dates it from 6 months before I found the first bit of evidence, photos in received files, which he managed to explain away due to my computer ignorance at the time.

So I can really relate to that feeling of having had a big chunk of your life turned into Alice in wonderland territory.

One thing I did was write a calendar list on a word document and keep going back and adding things. Eg I started with holidays and new jobs- either of us- and anything else I could remember.

Bit by bit, over a month or more, I built up a better picture. Add even silly things, like any big rows , your diagnosis etc.

I was able in this way at least to verify the truth about his dates, as noted up thread.

It helps to go back beyond the first date you suspect, even to when you first met.

I can see it might look a bit strange to someone who hasn't been there, but it is hard to describe the feeling of having not been in your own real life.

Wellwobbly Fri 05-Jul-13 11:03:39

One, really well put.

Very sadly you can tell people who have not been betrayed on MN, by the flippant attitude they have in their comments - even if they don't mean to be flippant, their innocence shines through in the assumption that it can all be explained through the old reasonable 50//50 rules.

It is very hard to explain the complete sense of unreality that being so lied to does, that you have been in a life you had no knowledge of, at all. I used to say that I wanted life to come with the 'this way up' arrow of packing boxes - someone tell me what is up and what is down.

It is simply the cruellest thing you can do to another person who loves you.

Charbon lovely to hear from you!

Wellwobbly Fri 05-Jul-13 11:09:22

Charbon, can you venture an answer to this?

MillyMollyMandy says something so important:

Its very hard to deal with an affair. Your oh seems to have been trying very to turn things around hasn't he but if you are bringing it up every day then I don't think any relationship can survive the constant stress that that brings. I know its hard but if you really want to move on and start afresh then you have to let go and start a new relationship with him. If you can let go of the affair (which is totally understandable) then maybe you have to call it a day as you and he cannot live like that. Relationships can and do survive affairs especially when the husband is prepared to do as much as yours has done but 8 months of daily picking over the wound will definitely kill off whatever you are trying to rebuild. What happened is mind blowing. If he has said that he has no love left then maybe he cant do it anymore. What do you want Op? Do you think there is any chance that he will try again if you can move on? Do you want to?

- I don't know what the answer is. Because, at this very moment there is a disconnect. You ARE traumatised. You ARE obsessed. You ARE thinking about it all the time. You ARE furious, wounded, all things that are hard and ugly.

- So you have to swallow these feelings down?????? I call this 'eating shit'. Swallowing the humiliation, the hurt, the shame, the grief, the rage.

WHAT DO YOU DO? It is kind of not dealt with in our IC. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

MadAboutHotChoc Fri 05-Jul-13 11:37:59

Wobbly - I think in that case, the betrayer has to eat shit by allowing the betrayed party to have the occasional rant, listen and apologise. As time goes on, these outbursts should lessen in terms of frequency and intensity.

Bogeyface Fri 05-Jul-13 12:02:51

I think that expecting the betrayed party to "let go and start a new relationship" is more damaging than the ranting.

If the betrayer is not shown exactly how much hurt they caused then it could leave the false impression that the betrayed isnt actually that bothered! One of the things that made my STBX realise just what he had done was the fact that 6 months later I would still cry about what he did. He admitted that he never thought it would hurt me so much or for so long. It was that final realisation that it wasnt just a bit of fun that I would soon "get over" that pushed him into therapy.

He is actually making good progress although he has been very down recently as he has been forced to look at the true him, not the image of himself that he had. He has said that it has been very hard for him to accept that he is a liar, a coward, a cheat and a very very selfish person. As I said, he is making progress and is working very hard to change that part of himself, and I hope for his and our DD's sake that he manages it. It may be too late for us, I dont know yet, but it is never too late for him.

Had I swallowed it down and not let me feelings out then none of that would be happening.

I also think that if someone kicks off about the fact that their betrayed spouse isnt "over it" within a time scale the betrayer thinks is reasonable then they probably dont actually care that much about their spouse. If they truly loved them, truly wanted to make it work and was prepared to do whatever it takes then they would accept that the ranting and the pain is a natural consequence of their actions. By allowing the betrayed to scream and shout and get their feelings listened to and validated the betrayed is likely to recover more quickly than if they are subtly or not so subtly pushed to hide those feelings and "get over it".

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Fri 05-Jul-13 12:26:38

If he works in a school I take it that establishment will soon close for the long summer break.

I don't know how he thought he'd be spending this summer but the notion of him home with you 24/7 still being evasive and untruthful is not a very enticing prospect. I say "24/7" but of course that is open to speculation depending on his, er, proclivities.

lazarusb Fri 05-Jul-13 16:22:46

Bogeyface You make a good point - I've never understood why people try to attach a time limit to grief. I don't think that it's fair or reasonable. You can't predict how you'll feel in 6 months or a year etc in a happy relationship, let alone one with a catastrophic bomb like this in the middle of it. As Wobbly and you both say, these aren't feelings that should be buried or hidden, they need to be addressed by ALL involved.

Donkeys Good observation. The thought of Bull having to spend all summer with him sounds horrendous from my point of view.

Wellwobbly Fri 05-Jul-13 22:00:12

Bogey your post made me cry. Your H shows signs of being a good person.

Tell me: what pushed him into facing his selfishness? His IC? The therapy itself?

Bogeyface Fri 05-Jul-13 23:09:34

Sorry, not sure what IC means!

onefewernow Fri 05-Jul-13 23:51:54

Independent counselling, I think.

Wellwobbly Sat 06-Jul-13 10:21:01

Individual Counselling (Marital C doesn't work with twats)

Fairyegg Sat 06-Jul-13 22:29:29

Just read this. So sorry bull. I think deep down you know what you need to do but I can see how this can be differcult. How are you now?

TDada Sun 07-Jul-13 08:01:04

Dear bullinthesea - I really feel for you. So sad. I pray that there is a wany for you and family to find a way to happiness. On the whole men are more careless with fidelity even when t.hey appear to love their, partners. I have seen this with friends and family.

Your DH and mil shod not make any excuses NAND, accept that wrong is wrong.

bullinthesea Mon 08-Jul-13 14:05:17

Ok, so we've registered with relate, he's still at home for now.

I'm not making any big decisions at the moment as I'm still in a bit of a state to be honest.

Has anyone's marriage on here survived an affair like this?

I feel like I need some sort of hope that things can be ok.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Mon 08-Jul-13 14:13:00

TBH, I think in my heart over time I could forgive a long term affair... (depending on his reaction to be beng caught. If he acted like your H? No. Never forgive. Because I'd feel in my heart he just didn't care about me)

BUT I couldn't forgive things like gifts being flaunted in my DC's room/s for the term of the affair. That is so cruel it draws my breath away. The slap in the face of my family would be too much. My rage (and of course, extreme hurt) would be insufferable.

I hope you find happiness and whatever is right for your family. If you can get over this, admiration to you both and hand holding for you on a long, painful journey. If you choose to leave, admiration and hand holding to you. This isn't my marriage, or my place to judge. But I can offer comfort. flowers

tessa6 Mon 08-Jul-13 14:13:54

I worry that you want support for that path because it seems the least difficult right now. That's okay but you should try and contemplate all possibilities as open to you now. Actually staying together after something like this can be harder and MORE damaging, if trust is never restored and infidelity continues just on the quiet. Whatever path you take, it takes roughly two years from the last lie to recover, I am very worried from what you've said that your OH is still in contact with his girlfriend to be honest, it doesn't seem like you're anywhere near 'the last lie'. And I wonder if you haven't chucked him out because you fear he will run to her. If so, do you really want him/

To be really practical, things can be okay if the following things happen:

The infidelitor answers any and all questions that the partner has and wants answers to, honestly.

They agree, if desired, to open up communications like email and phone to be seen whenever by the wounded partner.

They contact the person they had an affair with to say it is over and they must not make any contact again. This should be seen by the betrayed partner.

You can tell they feel incredibly lucky to be given any sort of second chance and genuine sorrow and fear at how they nearly threw it all away.

They acknowledge their own entitlement, selfishness and dishonesty as traits that contributed to them being able to have an affair, can cite examples in other areas where they'e displayed them, and commit to changing that about themselves because they find it so ugly.

If already any of these is unsatisfied, you're probably in for a really really slow and painful decline.

Obviously this is my opinion but I would say it's supported by the boards, many books and my experience.

I hope you get some counselling for yourself. I would be asking why I want to be in a relationship with a man who, for the past 7 years, has been in a relationship with someone else and who has lied, lied, lied and lied about it. I'm sorry but the way he has treated you is beyond appalling.
"We didn't have sex...I don't find her attractive...It was a shoulder massage..." FFS

skyeskyeskye Mon 08-Jul-13 15:13:58

bull - it is very brave of you to do this, but it is a very hard path as others have said. I haven't done it myself, but have read numerous threads on here, several of whom have posted on your thread and it sounds horrendous.

As others have said, there is no time frame, but you do need to be able to overcome this in time. You don't want to waste years of your life trying to make something work, that won't.

Your H needs to be totally transparent with you about everything and as has been said above, I still don't think that he has.

But it is your life and your decision and you will get support on here.

captainmummy Mon 08-Jul-13 15:27:14

No expereince of it, Bull, but I think you have to be sure (in the first instance) that is is over !
Has he stopped seeing her ?
Has he said he will never see her again?
DO you beleive him?

For me, I could not get over this, nor would I want a man who could do this to me. But if you decide to give it another go, fair play to you.
Hope it works for you.

Fab post, Tessa

lazarusb Mon 08-Jul-13 16:27:36

You have a lot of guts bull. I know I couldn't contemplate what you're doing. I hope it proves to be the right path for you.

MadAboutHotChoc Mon 08-Jul-13 17:18:28

You will get support on here but it is a very hard path you have chosen, esp since the affair spanned several years.

My marriage is one of the few that have survived an affair - I made the decision to try again after several months, so you are wise not to want to make a long term decision as so much depends on your H.

Despite my DH's openness, transparency and honesty and genuine willingness to work on himself and his issues, taking him back has been one of the toughest things I have ever done and because of this I will not consider doing this again.

I would focus on yourself and getting some RL support including counselling. You need to look at rebuilding your own life - friends, hobbies, work, training etc. All of this will help strengthen your position whatever long term decision you make.

I would get Shirley Glass's Not Just Friends to help you process your thoughts and emotions.

Good luck x

jan5 Mon 08-Jul-13 17:23:53

Marriages can survive affairs but they need help and commitment from both of you. Will he agree to seeing a counsellor to work out why this happened and how to rebuild trust. If yes then maybe time will heal things. But he has to stop having anything to do with this woman and make sure he focuses on you. I wouldn't do the knee jerk thing and throw him out because you have a child to think about but neither would I allow him to carry on as if nothing happened and brush things under the carpet.

Good luck.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 08-Jul-13 18:07:14

Good luck bullinthesea. There are MNers who have had a dreadful time but chose to forgive and forget, came through and are still with that errant partner. There is a separate category, those who came through, are still with their partner, asked for total transparency and are still with their partner and have a richer relationship.

Why, because their partners recognised what they'd done wrong and really applied themselves to rebuilding trust and dug deep.

Don't mistake the phase called 'hysterical bonding' - an eager reaction to the stress of a threatened break-up, fueled by long meaningful talks and resumption of can't-get-enough-of-each-other sex - for a magical recovery.

If it was a work-centred infatuation then the long summer holiday will work in favour of keeping H and OW apart, aside of course from phone, texts or emails.

Your love for him wasn't ever in question, I hope he lives up to your hopes.

Wellwobbly Mon 08-Jul-13 18:27:26

Hi Bull, you will do everything that is right for you to do and what you are capable of, at that time. It is all a huge journey.

My H and I did 'reconcile' - for 4 years. It slowly became apparent that his version of reconciling was that I was not to 'upset' him with any pain or demands for accountability or empathy, and 'moving forward' meant sweeping everything under the bridge whilst he continued as he had always been - as selfish, as unemotional, as incapable of seeing me as an equal.

But it took me 4 years to truly come to terms with this, and it was 4 years not wasted. I spent that time working on my own issues, went back to uni, got a job and learned that I don't need to live through him.

I told him that I am not going through this again. I warned him specifically. Well, I don't count as an equal, because I found out that he had resumed contact with co-worker schmoopie 'just for coffee'.

I saw the lawyer the next week, it is time for me. So whatever your timeline and outcome, it is appropriate for you. Just keep doing the hard 'me' work, whatever he does or doesn't do.

Lilly3000 Mon 08-Jul-13 18:33:59

I think the thing is to take one day at a time. We can all stand and judge but you've got to go through a process. You may not feel that you want him to go at the moment, but at some point you are likely to. Be kind to yourself and - without a moment's hesitation - always put your needs before his from now on.

I'm still with my DH 2 years on ( although the affair only went on for a short time) and I still have a meltdown every couple of months or so, over little things that remind me of his disrespect for our marriage and me. I still can't get my head around it.

We had one this weekend where I suddenly saw what had been happening all along - he'd acted selfishly and I made excuses for him.Why? Because I'm embarrassed, ashamed and disappointed. I'm repeating the pattern that my mum and dad followed, and DH's mum and dad too. Don't make excuses, look out ONLY for yourself. He will have to find his own answers, as it should be. Sometimes things are clear straightaway, sometimes it takes time. You have your own wounds to lick.

Wellwobbly Mon 08-Jul-13 18:51:19

BRILLIANT post Lilly.

It all does come down to selfishness. Look, and you will see it. Then look again, and like Lilly says, how you make excuses for them.

Lilly3000 Tue 09-Jul-13 12:32:01

I tried explaining to my DH that by destroying my faith in him, he has effectively amputated an emotional limb. It's that big a deal. Thinking he is going to come up with a magic powder to make it grow back just isn't going to happen. Sweeping it under the carpet is expecting me to be able to hop and skip like before and I can't. He can, however, help me up the difficult steps and be there to catch me when I fall. This way I can get strong again in my own time.
Despite the occasional meltdown, I'm still glad we are finding a way through this. He has done everything I asked of him and more. You should expect no less. I don't want him to suffer, but my feelings are more important than his now.Wellwobbly's phrase "I don't need to live through him" is critical. I have always been a sacrificial person and it's a mistake. Few will respect you for it and others will take advantage. If it's any comfort to you, the OW sounds like she's nothing more than a friend with benefits, not a real option for him. He is 'confused' ( i.e ego wanking) and needs to be put very, very straight. Still, all this takes time xx

schmarn Tue 09-Jul-13 13:21:11

Bull, the problem is that even now he is still lying to you. You have given him countless opportunities to come clean but he still won't admit that the texts relate to recent sex with her. This is a typical male approach. He thinks that the fact that he shagged her years ago is less hurtful to you than if it happened last week. What he doesn't realise is that the fact that he is still lying to you now (while simultaneously feigning tears) is possibly even more hurtful.

Sorry to say it but you are wasting your time with counselling. Counselling only works when both parties are committed to the process. He is going through the motions in the hope that you will forgive and forget. The reality is that he still sees her every day at work and is almost certainly still in love with her. If they have been having sex for years, she is basically like a second wife to him. He is probably treating her to the tears and apologies too.

In fact, the only prospect of saving things is to kick him out and show him that you are serious. As things stand, he has no respect for you and assumes you will never call his bluff. By allowing him to stay, you simply confirm his view of you.

bullinthesea Tue 09-Jul-13 14:42:48

Thank you to everyone for the excellent posts.

I have moments where I can't see a way forward, and that we must split. Then I have other moments where he's telling me that he wants a future with me, that he's disgusted with himself for what he's done, that he's going to have to live with himself, knowing how much he's hurt me and it kills him, and it does seem that there's genuine remorse there, and that he really wants to make a go of it. He says he can't bear the thought of losing me. In these times, it seems as though we might just be able to salvage things.

He used to stay on at work & do his paperwork before coming home. Now, he comes home immediately & brings his work home with him, so that he can be with me.

He's answered my questions without getting defensive.

He's been searching for another job, and agrees he must leave as soon as possible. He's even talked about just resigning (although that would leave us with no income).

We've been reading the Shirley Glass book together in the evenings, and discussing it. He says he finds it really uncomfortable, especially the word 'unfaithful', but understands that we've got to go through the tough bits if we're going to pull thru this.

He refers to her as 'that woman' which reminds me a bit of Bill Clinton.

I'm so confused really, a couple of years ago, he was looking at buying me an eternity ring, and has talked for a while about us renewing our vows. I can't understand why he'd do this, when he had this OW on the go.

He's been saying he wants us to start doing more stuff together I.e. hobbies/interests, like we did before we has DS.

I really appreciate your posts, please keep talking to me.
WellWobbly, it sounds like you've had a difficult time.

I have been thinking of talking to the lone parent advisor at the jobcentre, to find out what I might be able to claim if I decide to split. Does anyone have any experience of this?

Sorry for the ramble, I'm just getting my thoughts out really.

evelynj Tue 09-Jul-13 14:58:54


Just want to say that you defo should go find out about the lone parent thing & how you would be set. Up financially etc if you do split. This will 1. Make you feel in control & aware of how things would be and 2. Show him that it's really serious & he needs to be feeling it rather than making the right noises.

Research all the possibilities & look after yourself. if you feel you're doing the right thing for now then that's fine. If he means what he says then he'll take it if you ask him to leave for a while at any stage & should be at your beck & call for the next year or 2 til you figure things out. He must know that because he is staying in the family home right now, it may not always be the case

Good luck

Jan45 Tue 09-Jul-13 15:10:49

No offence but all the stops will be getting pulled out at this stage, he'll do anything right now. He feels uncomfortable at the word `unfaithful` - really? He didn't seem to mind it when he was.

He's calling her the `other woman` because he knows it sounds better to you.

I'm not saying you should split or stay together, it's entirely up to you, nobody else but please give yourself time on your own, can't he move out for a short period of time? It must be very hard having to pretend everything is normal when it isn't. Sorry but it looks to me like he's got off pretty lightly after what he has done.

Is he really worth all the misery he is causing you? You won't know this until you have time apart from him so give yourself that much, he'll wait for you if he means what he says, IF being the operative word.

tessa6 Tue 09-Jul-13 16:07:35

bull, we are here for you and good for you for returning and for being strong and honest.

I can't over-stress how important the next thing I'd like to say has been in my life.

Learn to distinguish between words and actions.

Charmers, narcissists, cheaters, they are all very good at convincing people of things. It is how they are charming. I have no problem believing you believe him. I have no problem believing he believes him too. But the only thing worth anything is the size and consistency of his actions. Actually, the thing that makes me most sad and anxious for you is these examples like using the term 'that woman'. That is the classic behaviour of someone trying to manipulate you into believing him by adopting the sort of vernacular he imagines you want to hear. He has known this woman, and probably loved this woman, for YEARS. It is actually disrespectful and childish to suddenly ban her name from his lips as if it suddenly repulses him, for the simple reason he has been found out. FOUND OUT remember. NOT confessed to. He is in damage control mode.

What of the actual PRACTICAL things I mentioned in my former post has he done? The work thing is good and important. But I still don't see how you know and trust that he is not in contact with her. I still don't know why he hasn't shown you the emails or written an explanation and an honest ending for you to see that you can send to her together. I know these things will seem painful to you, but they are way way more painful for him and that is why he doesn't want to do them. It is VERY hard for someone just to give up someone they have spent years confiding in and sharing with. Almost impossible in fact. I would engage in all your dealings on the assumption they are still on contact, possibly even affectionately so, sharing the ups and downs of what you and he are going through, comforting each other through the trauma of the guilt, expressing whispers of how much they miss each other.

I am sorry that is so harsh sounding but if he is struggling with word ;unfaithful' he's a little bit deluded.

And he might well have wanted you to renew your vows in some period of estrangement from the OW, or to convince himself that you and he staying together were right. People having an affair don't spend all their time plotting against their partner, they spend much of it in a state of distress and despair, oscillating between their options and hoping something will make itself clear. What they don't do, often, is realise fast enough that they need to tell the truth or never be trusted again.

You have the right to ask for anything you want now, OP. Including access to communications between them. It is you who have been wronged.

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 09-Jul-13 16:19:32

Reading your last post - it seems to be all about HIM, what HE wants, what HE said etc. Do not make the mistake of being his counsellor and therapist. He needs to do the work himself.

Now is the time to focus on YOU, what YOU want and YOUR future.

The shared hobbies, dates etc can wait until you have decided that its what you want to do. The danger is that he is trying to pull you in at this stage - he is not giving you enough space to think things through and process your feelings.

Xales Tue 09-Jul-13 16:42:59

Then I have other moments where he's telling me that he wants a future with me, that he's disgusted with himself for what he's done, that he's going to have to live with himself, knowing how much he's hurt me and it kills him, and it does seem that there's genuine remorse there, and that he really wants to make a go of it. He says he can't bear the thought of losing me.

You know there isn't a single think in that sentence that is not about him, how he is feeling, his remorse, him wanting to make a go of it, how he knows he has hurt you etc. If you are mentioned in there it is as a complete by product of him. sad

I agree with tessa6 'that woman' is a foul way to talk about a woman he has had some form of relationship with for how many years now. He was willing to cheat and risk your relationship for someone (I initially type something as that is what he is turning her in to a thing not a person) he calls 'that woman'. It is so offensive.

Not only is it offensive it makes you collude it is you and him against 'that woman'. No matter what part she played in all this he cheated on you. He did all this to you. Not 'that woman'. Never lose sight of this!

He's been saying he wants us to start doing more stuff together this is also typical. This one makes AnyFucker and others of us foam (elegantly I am sure) at the mouth.

He has be a vile cheat. Taken his interest and emotions elsewhere from the relationship and wants rewarding by cosy times together to make it all better.

Good luck.

Lilly3000 Tue 09-Jul-13 16:58:36

I also wonder if people who have affairs are emotionally a bit dead, like someone who has to have 5 expressos before they feel awake. Being in a long term relationship means that the thrill is probably gone and they view contentment as a bit of a disappointment. Therefore having an affair resurrects that thrill and gives them a buzz. Furthermore, when the affair is discovered they get to feel fear and thrill about their marriages, which is even MORE potent, hence the 'honeymoon period' after discovery. Him coming home early etc is him feeling alive and in love again. Once more he can see you clearly.

This is good in some ways, but it is unlikely to last I'm afraid. You won't change, but he will. Without some heavy duty therapy and self examination he's likely to slip back into the deadness again. She will be there, waiting, able to provide those adrenaline hits he thinks he needs in order to feel things. YOU can't make him better, please don't think you can. She certainly can't either. The seeds of this undoubtedly predate you.

Until he can stop referring to the situation in the third person ('that woman', 'disgusted with himself') there's not much hope. He did it. Only him. He is a bad man who betrayed you. It is NOT more complicated than this.

As for renewing vows, I knew a couple who had four children, an idyllic lifestyle, and a romantic renewing of vows in front of all of their friends. He was having an affair with a young waitress all the time. My friend was absolutely devastated as she'd spent years making excuses for him. She is now married again, to a lovely man that she doesn't need to make excuses for. She has blossomed.

"One thing is, if it did get physical then I would end it"

This is what you originally said when you thought it was an emotional affair of some months. Now you have found out it was a sexual and emotional affair of some years.

Your dh has behaved appallingly over several years - and even now he has been found out, he still behaves like the worst kind of twat. I'm sorry that you are too close to see it.

He wants to renew his vows? Surely you're not taken in by this?

lazarusb Tue 09-Jul-13 17:12:09

I have to say, discussing eternity rings and renewing vows meant nothing as while he was doing that he was sleeping with her. It may have been to throw you off any suspicions he might have thought you had.

Please check what you will be entitled to as a lone parent, just to give you some peace of mind if you decide to end it. He knows he can't resign - that is a misdirection on his part. I would imagine it's a difficult time of year for a teacher to seek a new post too. So he could be there another year...please put yourself here. Your feelings, your thoughts, how you want your life to be in five years time (or five months for that matter).

lazarusb Tue 09-Jul-13 17:12:55

put yourself first !

Xales Tue 09-Jul-13 17:16:58

Missed the renewing the vows bit.

Why would you need to renew them you didn't break them.

Why would you bother getting him to renew them. They were meaningless to him last time.

Maybe in 1/2/5 years when he has proven a changed person. Now? Pointless. Just a grand gesture.

Wellwobbly Tue 09-Jul-13 17:53:32

Oh, this is awful deja vu.

Please please please read the post by Tessa very carefully! I cannot tell you the smoke and mirrors, it has taken me years to work it out and accept that he has just carried on as selfish as ever (and OW never really went away)

What Tessa warns about lingering attachment to OW is very TRUE. It is staggering (in a way that shakes you) how much they 'dissemble'.

Please read Tessa carefully and take what she says seriously.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Tue 09-Jul-13 18:05:50

Guilty conscience OP or threat of disturbing revelations prompted the talk of vows and eternity ring. I'm sorry but with a liar you have to look back and examine every out of kilter event or excuse.

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 09-Jul-13 18:53:11

The honeymoon thing Lilly refers to is called hysterical bonding - and usually what happens afterwards is that you feel worse because it wasn't based on reality.

tessa6 Tue 09-Jul-13 19:09:38

thanks wellwobbly. The facts and actions here are the only thing worth following, OP. All other declarations, promises, or explanations are background noise. Here are our facts.

He has been carrying on an affair that is both emotional and physical for years.

He did not tell you about it, to start again or explain what you've both been going through or to finally be honest. If you hadn't discovered, it would still be going on, this cancer in your life.

When you confronted him, he lied. He continued to lie. He still seems to be continuing to lie. We must conclude that when he speaks, it is as likely to be a lie as the truth. So him answering your questions is fine but not a good or bad thing necessarily, as it is just as likely a building of a narrative that serves him as not.

He is making practical efforts like coming home earlier and looking for another job. This is a good fact. Pursue it. Does this continue or is it a temporary response to your trauma? Does he stop looking for work after a few weeks or start coming back later?

Everything else is stuff he is 'talking about'. It is fine but meaningless. WHERE ARE HIS MOBILE PHONE RECORDS? Where is the password to his email, computer and mobile? Where are the other people in his life that you can talk to and ask what they know? Where is the final correspondence between them that you okay?

see what you said about not being able to stay with him if it had been sexual? Now you know it has been sexual? You are still considering it. The bottom line shifts. This is how we rationalise and desperately cling and erode ourselves until we are nothing. YOu have an opportunity now to show him what is and is not acceptable. FIND A BOTTOM LINE. Today. Write it down. See the list I made a few pages back of what he has to do? This isn't guesswork or nagging. It is WHAT HE HAS TO DO. If he does not do them all, IT WILL NOT WORK. Think of him not fulfilling any of this things, as him giving you the gift of revealing who he is, and letting you go. If he contacts her again, it's over. If he does not show you the emails, it's over. You get to decide your bottom line. But decide it. Now. And do not ever go back on it.

I am sorry for the toughness of some of this, I know what you need and deserve is compassion and hugs. I want to give them to you. You have done nothing wrong and your life will not never be the same again. But it can be better. There's no need to be afraid. You're the hero of this story. You can and must make demands. Please please accept that there is every chance they are still making plans together. Very very few people who have done what he has done can drop that habit immediately. I'd say none. Detach from him, you are seeking comfort from the very person you has caused the pain. That is an impossible situation. You will be okay. All love.

onefewernow Tue 09-Jul-13 23:05:14

Hi Bull.
Everyone else here is right.

My H and I did the bonding thing. Monthsater he was as selfish as ever and after a weeks split six months further on again we were back in counselling, where he finally is doing the work rather than promising it.

You have become the new buzz. He isn't offering much. It is all about him. And he has a home to save for himself.

Unless he does what he is asked and takes some proper pain for this eg better disclosure , it won't work.

TDada Wed 10-Jul-13 00:13:00

Dear Bull, as others have said, put yourself first. That could mean kicking him out or staying together. I think that you can salvage your mutual love but it depends on whether he is genuine.

sweetpud Wed 10-Jul-13 12:09:58

I felt a bit sick whilst reading this as it brought back some bad memories for me, and I have an idea of how you are feeling. My DH had an emotional affair four years ago and it nearly destroyed me, there still seems to be days and weeks that are "missing" from that bad time. It first started with him mentioning her name quite a bit in conversation, then when I pointed this out it sort of went undercover in the form of texts. They too worked at the same place and she was going through a rough time, so I suppose it became the knight in shining armour act, that someone here pointed out. I started reading the texts and though there was nothing sexual, it was still nicey, nicey in the way the texts were worded and it worried me greatly.

My DH became very upbeat and happy during this time, whilst I kept all the info in my head and slowly went on a decline. I couldn't eat, sleep or function properly and I lost loads of weight too. It finally came to a head when I couldn't go to work one morning, just couldn't face people, and I called my doctor who was fantastic. She advised me to confront DH with the text messages etc, which I did. He always claimed that they were just good friends, nothing more, but I will never really know that for certain.

To cut a long story short we managed to get through this, but only after huge rows, tears, debates, etc and after I had met her a couple of times at work do's, then my DH moved to another office.
In my heart I will never forget this horrible time, but in order to save my marrige, we had to move on.
I certainly understand that you love your DH, but you are going through a very difficult time and there are good people here who can advise and help you, so please don't feel that you are all alone.

Lilly3000 Wed 10-Jul-13 12:50:45

No. You are not alone hand hold for sweetpud

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Wed 10-Jul-13 18:13:49

sweetpud just like bullinthesea, so often on a thread where a H has behaved so poorly towards his wife she will say of him, "He liked being a knight in shining armour...." or "His self image is very important, he is such a good guy normally, he likes to be the hero...".

How sad that the recipientof such consideration sometimes transforms from damsel in distress to OW. His wife is often the last to see his generous, thoughtful side.

skyeskyeskye Wed 10-Jul-13 18:35:00

snap sweetpud - my XH suddenly started talking about OW all the time. He hid all texts, emails, facebook chat from me. He was also the "Knight in shining armour" because he "understood her in a way that her husband didn't" - <vomit> well done on working through it.

that is what reels these men in, the thought that somebody needs them, somebody wants them, somebody talks sweetly to them.... nothing sidetracked by the stress and strain of everyday life, just pure sweet fantasy.

bull I hope you are ok. I presume he refers to her as that woman because he doesn't want to keep bringing her name up in case it upsets you. Not sure how you can get around that one.

TDada Wed 10-Jul-13 20:09:52

I am wishing you a happy ending in whatever direction you choose

bullinthesea Thu 11-Jul-13 12:19:02

He's also telling me that he just saw her as a 'piece of meat' shock

This is not the man I know. Well none of it is. hmm

We saw relate yesterday, he said to the counsellor that the physical stuff lasted about 6 months. He then expects me to believe that he shagged her no more than a handful of times.

It's all a load of BS isn't it?

MadAboutHotChoc Thu 11-Jul-13 12:23:28

The "piece of meat" thing is horrible, so dehumanising sad He must really lack empathy.

Sorry he is still lying and bullshitting you. That's the problem with relate - BOTH parties need to be committed for it to work. What did the counsellor say? Did you say it was a load of BS?

DontWannaBeObamasElf Thu 11-Jul-13 12:27:11

Bull I'm so sorry that you're going through this. May I give my perspective as the child in a similar situation?

My dad had an affair. Twice. Same woman. I was still in primary school at the time.

My parents are still together but I keep thinking "Will he do it again? Will my partner do it to me?"

Whenever my dad is away my first thought is "He's doing it again."

Maybe tell your husband that. It will affect the way his children see him, especially if he keeps up with the lies and the horrible way in which he is speaking.

Wellwobbly Thu 11-Jul-13 12:28:07

the awful part of that is that he is probably telling the truth when he says she was a thing for his gratification.

But what he doesn't understand is that he is telling you you are the same.

Women to him are things that fulfill his needs.

But then on the other hand he is also lying and minimising his attachment to her.

It all sucks so badly.

It is a load of bullshit. You don't stay involved with someone for years if that's what you think.
He is such a snivelling creep. Really.
He probably loves you. He hasn't respected you for years and continues to treat you as if you are an idiot. You are not.
Why do you think you have to stay married to someone who has cheated on you for years and has lied and lied again about it?

AgathaF Thu 11-Jul-13 12:29:37

It really doesn't paint him in a good light. It's all about him where you are concerned, and it appeared to be all about him where she was concerned. Not good.

tessa6 Thu 11-Jul-13 12:37:12

This is absolute bollocks. Makes no sense at all. They were texting about carpet burns RECENTLY! No one has a period of six months of being sexual with someone (with a vague but small number of times attached, jesus christ) then just leans back into a purely emotional affair when they work together and see each other regularly. If he saw her as a piece of meat he would have been stopping any contact with her after he'd shagged her a few times and it would have become awkward once she realised she was being used this way, unless she was just using him too.

And what a fucking HORRIBLE thing to say anyway. He is getting it so wrong, all this trying to second guess your anger by pretending to be as disgusted with her as you are with them. He is trying to make it seem like he is on YOUR side, with 'that woman' and his objectifying of her into nothingness. It makes him seem disgusting and is also kind of insulting to you. That he thinks you're daft enough to fall for it: 'yes you're right dear, she is a worthless slut who nearly ruined us, phew' OR that you would collaborate in demeaning anyone that way.

I would suggest you either push like crazy in these sessions to show the bollocks he's talking (phone records, passwords, email accounts, credit card statements, COME ON where's the actual STUFF of this, where are the FACTS and ACTIONS) or cut your losses and walk away content in his utter lack of respect for you. Again, he may be just too weak to be able to do this himself and still be talking to her about 'how they'll be together' or some such. Or maybe he's just an opportunist who can't keep it in his trousers.

It sounds like you are absolutely nowhere near the truth. Do not doubt yourself or apologise for not believing him. He has no history of honesty in this. Poor you. Very depressing. Real hugs.

Has he let you see those emails yet?

tessa6 Thu 11-Jul-13 12:46:42

of course you were depressed, OP.

Have you been tested for STIs?

Have you any reason to believe there could have been others along the way?

captainmummy Thu 11-Jul-13 13:17:48

OP - Tessa is talking real good stuff there. He is trying to get you 'on side', trying to convince you that she is nothing/worthless/just sex to him.

What did the counseller say? Or don't they say anyhting really?

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Thu 11-Jul-13 13:27:20

Oh that is such a crock I am glad your bs radar has kixked in, bullinthesea.

Xales Thu 11-Jul-13 13:40:41

What a lying bastard.

Your title is he was having an emotional affair.

If he thought of her as a piece of meat he wouldn't have been texting her and being her knight in shining armour.

It is complete shit.

If he thought if her as a piece of meat what does that say of your relationship that he was willing to risk it all for her.

He is vile.

He is de humanising her and as I said before making her into a thing nor a person to try and reduce what he has done to the level of unimportant.

Pilgit Thu 11-Jul-13 15:07:33

Have just read through this thread. They all follow a script - cheaters, don't they? He sounds like all the men I've known who have cheated. There is a way back from this for a relationship but only with full and frank disclosure. He clearly has not given this and does not want to give you this. If he did he would have confessed all at the beginning and then not burdened you with the responsibility of his emotions and done what you want him to do. He is trying to control you by not giving you the full picture and not allowing you the emotional space to decide what you want to do. He has problems with the word 'unfaithful' - i sincerely hope he doesn't teach english - how could he not have known that was what he was being? I'm sorry but the plain truth is that most adulterers would not stop unless found out; they enjoy the drama of it - they are staring in their own private soap opera and the drama of it all is exciting.

All relationships have problems and I am a firm believer that nice people can do shitty things (and shitty people can do nice things). It's what you do afterwards that really lets everyone know what you're really like. He has continued to lie, he has minimised, made it all about him and his needs, emotionally bamboozled you with crying and breast beating, asked you to keep it secret and not given you the disclosure you have asked for. These are not the actions of a nice person.

whatever happens I wish you well. But rest assured not all men are like this and you deserve to be treated with respect, dignity and lots of love.

AnyFucker Thu 11-Jul-13 18:01:37

A "piece of meat"??

He thinks of a woman as a piece of meat

I have no words for a man like that

Get him out of your life. Really...what the hell are you thinking?

lazarusb Thu 11-Jul-13 18:54:58

He really is despicable. I don't believe for one minute that he saw her as that. He's had/having a physical relationship with her and even if that has ended, he has continued this sordid text relationship with her. That isn't the action of a person who sees someone else as a piece of meat.

I'm glad you realise he's talking bollocks bull. I think the scales are falling from your eyes. He has a hell of a lot of honesty to bring forth (still) and he seems unwilling to do it. I'm guessing he's hoping he can bluff his way along as long as he needs to then you're back to the status quo.

AnyFucker Thu 11-Jul-13 18:56:35

Actually I believe him that he views women as pieces of meat

when someone tells you what they are, listen

tessa6 Thu 11-Jul-13 19:01:05

You must have seen lots of messages and emails in your discovery, bull. Were they very frequent, sharing, intimate? If so, of course they have been having an intimate relationship, not a 'piece of meat' type one. He seems so fixated in coming out like the good guy. First he's a hero because he got close to her trying to 'be there for her' and save her from her 'tough time' (would you do that for a bit of chop?!) now suddenly she's just a sexual fucktoy that he had no feelings for.

He is not telling you the truth. If someone won't do that even after all this discovery and confrontation, there is usually one reason, because the truth is so bad they can't bring themselves to say it out loud because of what it makes them.

AnyFucker Thu 11-Jul-13 21:15:51

Oh, I dunno

he is doing that thing where the excuses he makes for his own behaviour are actually worse than the original misdemeanour

in my eyes, anyway

if my H were to cheat I would hope he had respect and affection for the woman he shagged...if he rubbished her and called her a "piece of meat" what does that actually say about him ??

it's worse...much, much worse

he wants you to think he detests her so you can become a little misogynistic unit against her

don't buy into it

the best thing you could actually do is unite with her against him

that rarely happens though, unfortunately

the default position appears to be to fight for the booby prize

I don't get it

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Fri 12-Jul-13 09:49:54

A month on bullinthesea it's been a walking nightmare for you. But you have the measure of H.

You can almost see his bottom lip wobble.
"It's not my fault... She made me".
Piece of meat indeed.

What lies did he spin about you or his home life to give her the green light for trysts in the tuck shop?

How they must have laughed when she gave DS that present which you innocently thanked her for.

I sincerely hope you have rl support, at least one friend you can lean on. Whatever you decide to do, the next few years you need to feel you have solid ground beneath you again.

The sham part of the past 7 years wasn't your life with DS. You and he make a good team. All the time you were fondly thinking you were half of a monogamous relationship, H certainly wasn't.

Ezio Fri 12-Jul-13 10:46:34

Piece of meat, ugh, thats so vile.

He was having his cake and eating it, and he'll do what you want him too (NOT what he knows he should do) so you'll forgive him, then he'll be back shagging another "Piece of meat", thinking....."Wow, that was easy to get away with"

Get that sad tragic little chauvinist out of your life, before he shows DS thats how men behave (its not).

lazarusb Fri 12-Jul-13 11:19:23

AF What I was trying to say (but perhaps not clearly) is that he doesn't see this particular woman as a piece of meat (and if he thinks that would make it any better is bloody awful anyway), because he has sustained a relationship with her over the years. I'm trying to suggest that if she was 'just' a fuck, he wouldn't have bothered to keep texting, shoulder massages etc...

Either way, he's still a low-life and bull deserves so much more, as do her dcs.

AnyFucker Fri 12-Jul-13 11:31:22

Oh, indeed. Completely with you there, laz

Wellwobbly Sat 13-Jul-13 07:00:25

Please read this, Bull:

[how do you link things so that they do that blue here thing? (Apple mac)]

It took me AGES to realise that my husband was not remorseful.

MadAboutHotChoc Sat 13-Jul-13 07:34:39

(wobbly - you either tick the convert links automatically box or put two brackets at each end)

Lilly3000 Sat 13-Jul-13 12:05:23

Although the giving and acceptance of a baby gift is obviously seems vile and strange, we don't know that anyone was laughing. I understand what you're saying Donkeys, but if I was the OP, the thought of this would cause me extra pain. It may have been during one of those remission times, like a conciliatory gesture i.e 'we're over and I'm so happy for you and your family that I can send you a gift', which the husband accepts with 'maturity'. Despicable nonsense of course. More like the bad fairy at the christening. There's such a lot of self-delusion going on on the part of the OP's husband. The 'piece of meat' comment sounds like self-loathing on his part. I completely agree with the Chumplady remorse list, although it can't all be done at once. Bull, I hope you are ok, but I somehow doubt it. x sad flowers

AnyFucker Sat 13-Jul-13 12:23:50

Talking about a woman he has shagged and then dropped like shit on his shoe is self loathing ?

No, it's indicative of a hatred of women

This fucking bloke loves himself

What apologist nonsense

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Sat 13-Jul-13 12:28:12

Piece of meat?

Piece. Of Meat?

Do you have DDs? sad Your H is one of the few who are sadly, 100% misogynistic.

I feel the need to retract my statement about not judging. I DO judge. As other posters have said, he's got a severe Madonna/Whore/--Selfish Cunt-- complex. If he can just convince you she's the 'evil whore' who seduced him with her unresistible 'Medusa' like powers FFS how stupid does he view you?!? angry And you're the glowing angel come to 'save him,' he thinks he can slip into his old life once you're settled and find a fresh 'piece of meat' to 'pork' if this one isn't pathetic enough to allow a second affair. Like Tessa said, this WAS NOT just sexual. The fact he is trying to give you a rueful smile and a 'phewph!' attitude makes it far, far worse IMHO. No respect for your intelligence, no respect for your relationship, and perhaps most importantly.. No respect for women. He thinks he can appeal to you as the Madonna to hate The Whore and he and wriggle out happily in between you both as The Victim.

I feel so, so bad for you. sad This man is far, far, FAR worse than I thought when you first posted. I could never forgive That Woman I've Been Fucking For Five Years Is a Whore, A Disgusting Piece Of Meat... Not like you my Madonna Angel.

This guy hates women. I may be a feminist but I don't think I've ever actually cringed on a Relationships thread. sad

I also agree you shouldn't assume the contact has stopped. Your husband sounds like a real monster.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Sat 13-Jul-13 12:29:19

Or what AF said... That works too. Stop being so good at shorthand explanations AF!! smile

AnyFucker Sat 13-Jul-13 12:34:14

This man is truly awful. Not much more to say. If op takes him back she will regret it bitterly.

Lizzabadger Sat 13-Jul-13 15:15:51

He sounds like a complete narc, sorry. I think you would be much happier in the long term if you leave him.

Lilly3000 Sat 13-Jul-13 18:28:05

AnyFucker, back along the thread you said if my H were to cheat I would hope he had respect and affection for the woman he shagged. I assumed you'd been in the same boat. confused. Things can look very different outside the glass house than from within. Anyway, do you really think he saw her as a piece of meat? Of course not. This was a close relationship that went on for years. This man has screwed up big time and is bandying around panicky, shitty excuses so that he doesn't lose everything. He's not necessarily saying what he really thinks, but what he mistakenly thinks the OP wants to hear. He's desperate - Excellent. About time. He's also emotionally retarded, that much is crystal clear. I suspect he is very ashamed. Hopefully he'll do something about dealing with his failings, especially as he's got a son. Some people have strong moral compasses, others don't. Those with, are often drawn to those without, and vice-versa. The trick is when to know when to stop the dance. That's the OP's call.

Well there's cheating and there's having an affair over many years. There's minimizing and then there's swearing on your child's life that it was purely emotions, developing some phoney twitch, then doing a massive turnabout saying it was only sex.

This guy is a conman who has been leading a double life for god knows how long. The idea that the op sits reading books about affairs with him makes me feel really sad.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Fri 19-Jul-13 12:19:27

Hell Bull... Just wanted to say you're in my thoughts. flowers

bullinthesea Fri 19-Jul-13 19:13:45

Thanks SpecialAgent, and to all posters for your posts, they're much appreciated.

H now tells me that when I ask questions about the affair, he gets, well if he'd been truthful from the it any wonder I have questions!

I'll get on & post a more in depth post soon, when I get a minute.

Thanks again, Bull wink

I've been thinking about you, hope that you are staying strong.

onefewernow Fri 19-Jul-13 23:30:45

Frustrated? What an utter twat he is.

Please do leave him.

tessa6 Fri 19-Jul-13 23:37:06

Glad you see clearly how unreasonable that is. People become frustrated and angry when their obvious inconsistencies are pointed out. It makes them feel bad about themselves and so defensive. It is yet another clue to his guilt and deception I'm afraid. People who are truly honest will answer in an almost relieved way, because there's no way of being caught out because it's the truth.

Xales Fri 19-Jul-13 23:38:31

Four weeks since you found out that he was having an affair. Several of which he lied about it being physical.

You have only known for a few weeks and he gets frustrated when you ask sad

His only concern is how uncomfortable this is making him. He doesn't care about how hurt you are he just wants it swept under the carpet because he has confessed and told you she meant nothing all those years.

He isn't exactly making an effort to help you get over his infidelity is he!

He is the only priority he has.

Bogeyface Fri 19-Jul-13 23:45:43

He gets "frustrated" because each time you ask him about it he is forced to hold up a mirror to his true self. He has no choice but to see the man he really is, not the man he imagines himself to be.

He doesnt like doing that, he doesnt want to do that. As long as he denies all that he did (to himself) then your marriage doesnt stand a chance because he will do it again.

captainmummy Sat 20-Jul-13 11:55:31

He gets frustrated? What about you? He may have brushed it under the carpet, but if you have questions, then what is he going to do about them?

He wants to move on so that you STFU.

bullinthesea Mon 22-Jul-13 15:16:25

Hi all,
Thanks again for your excellent posts.

Although we're still 'together' as such & under the same roof, I'm starting to consider my options, now that I've calmed down a little.

As mentioned before, I went down to the CAB recently, they gave me some basic advice, and directed me to their website.

I don't have a clue if I'd be able to claim anything yet, I'm going to see about getting an appointment to see someone with regards to that. I'm terrified!

I've also been in touch with my old employer, to see if I could work a few hours for them. Still waiting to hear back on that one.

H says he wants to stay & work on the marriage, that he doesn't know what he was thinking etc etc etc...
He also started on antidepressants last Saturday. I honestly think he should have done that years ago.
Again, he keeps coming to me for reassurance, asking me to tell him that I love him etc, wanting to spend almost every waking moment with me, it's like he's suddenly become very insecure (confusing for me!).
He says that he will never let me down again, and is now talking of us all moving abroad! I'm not sure I could do that with a person I barely trust or recognise anymore.

He says he didn't realise I loved him so much hmm

I had to drive past his school today for the first time since I found out, I shuddered, as it hit me that that's where he shagged her sad

So, I'm still finding it all really tough, I have moments where I feel the full shock of what's happened and it hits me like a steam train.

I have moments where I want to phone her and get her side of the story, but I'm worried I'd say something I'd regret.

I also have monents of wanting to let her husband in on this, after all, as far as she's concerned, she's got away with it!! But again, more kids lives would be affected, I just couldn't do that.

Anyway, I will continue to ask him questions as much as I want, and won't STFU, lol smile

Thanks again for helping me to see the wood for the trees everyone wink


tessa6 Mon 22-Jul-13 15:22:39

Well done, bull. I hope these words translate into solid actions one of these days: 'asking me to tell him that I love him '. Sigh. Doesn't seem likely.

I know you're terrified but don't worry. I'm not sure anything could be more scary than spending a life with an unfaithful narcissist who won't show you all the things you deserve to be shown (statements, phone records, texts, emails) and yet is willing to stay if he's loved enough.
He is.

Take take take.

Take take take.

All the best. Be brave. Be the best version of yourself.

onefewernow Mon 22-Jul-13 15:33:17

Bull I'm sorry to say it but he does want reassurance. He is fearful that you may leave him. However, he needs to shift himself a lot further than this in order for you to have any confidence and he is trying to avoid that. Because this is about him, even his need for you is all about him.

LisaMed Mon 22-Jul-13 16:03:23

If you move abroad together it will be harder for you to get support in rl and harder for you to leave him. Just sayin.

If he spends every moment with you then it gives you less of a chance to get your head straight. He keeps asking you to tell him you love him because if you say it often enough then it may be fact and he can also turn around and say - you can't leave me, you love me.

Wishing all the luck in the world. I also hope you can prioritise your feelings over his.

Xales Mon 22-Jul-13 16:21:45

He, he, he, he ...

He was perfectly fine until you discovered all this.

He is still after you to mummy and re assure him just like when he was lying with his head in your lap.

He is relying on your maternal instinct to mother and protect his skanky arse.

Who is comforting you?

bullinthesea Tue 06-Aug-13 20:21:03

Hi again, just updating to say that we had another Relate session today.

I told her I wanted to know the full truth about everything, as I felt that I was still not being told everything, and he had not been honest from the start. She began to probe him, and he admitted that the other woman had wanted to take things further - not running off together - more like spending nights in hotels together etc.

I expressed shock at this, & then the counsellor turned on me and basically said that if I was going to react like that (I wasn't explosive by a long shot), then how was DH going to feel!!

She then seemed to steer the conversation in a different direction, mainly talking about what was wrong in our marriage for this situation to come about.

I have since asked DH if he was tempted by the idea of the hotels, and it seems as though he was, although he said he hadn't wanted things to go that far.

I mentioned the bit about the baby gift, she said that she thought I was fantasising, and that men wouldn't even think twice about that gift being on DS's wall all these years, in the same way that us women would. She did however acknowledge that having that gift there will now feel like it was an intrusion into our home/marriage.

When she heard that he'd been shagging her in the school, she said "I'm glad my child doesn't go to your school".

I felt so low when I left, I burst into tears (something I've not done an awful lot, but when I do it's like floods!).

Still feeling quite low now tbh, it's like another dribble of truth coming out, that was hard to hear.

He says that he doesn't think she wanted him to leave me, but it sounds like she wanted to get more involved than he did.

I still haven't decided what ill do either way, but I am going to give the relate a go in the meantime.

tessa6 Tue 06-Aug-13 20:25:28

oh bull, i'm sorry it's so hard. I know it's not what you want to hear but it really sounds like you're nowhere near the whole truth yet. I will say, for the umpteenth time, nothing he says is trustable. WHERE ARE THE PHONE RECORDS, EMAILS AND CREDIT CARD BILLS?

Counsellors are only of use when they have the truth to analyse. She is doing a poor job with poor information here. She has to assume he is telling the truth. She can't force him into honesty. Only his own words would do that (emails and texts). I just don't understand why you haven't insisted that all these things be handed over.

Please don't let the counselling get you down. You're not crazy, you're the sane one.

Bogeyface Tue 06-Aug-13 20:26:04

Wow, you counsellor doesnt sound that great tbh. I would be considering asking for another one!

Who the eff did she expect you to react? By asking you accepted that you may not like what you hear, but that doesnt mean you cant react at all! Then her comment about the school thing, well yes, she is right I wouldnt want my child there either. But her job isnt to pass comment like that. She could have said something like "Do you think that it was appropriate to be having sex in your place of work, especially considering it is a place where children are?".

She doesnt sound good at all. Has he been charming her by any chance?

Xales Tue 06-Aug-13 20:26:36

I expressed shock at this, & then the counsellor turned on me and basically said that if I was going to react like that (I wasn't explosive by a long shot), then how was DH going to feel!!

Hopefully like a dirty sleazy cheat who has broken his wife's heart and destroyed their marriage.

Exactly how he should feel.

Nice of your counsellor to try and protect his feelings by dismissing yours hmm

Doha Tue 06-Aug-13 20:31:37

I second getting another counsellor

AnyFucker Tue 06-Aug-13 20:34:51

Sack that fucking counsellor

And sack your husband, of course


mousebacon Tue 06-Aug-13 21:49:36

What AF said x a million. sad