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Dating thread 56 all welcome

(1000 Posts)
Kirstywirsty Sat 15-Jun-13 21:12:42

The Rules

1 Develop a thick skin;
2. Do not invest emotionally too soon;
3. It's all BS until it actually happens;
4. Trust your gut instinct;
5. If it is not fun, stop

Kirstywirsty Sat 15-Jun-13 21:14:50

Fresh start everyone??

I am hidden on POF just now .. Have a date with MrNYC on Wednesday

Bant Sat 15-Jun-13 21:15:58

Hello all

It's the jam jars, bill. Too many on sale means you can't make a choice. I'm not sure if things will work with Cheshire, there are some things which seem a bit odd. But I'm not going to start dating anyone else until I've finished with her.

I also think if it was just a 'drink with a friend', she wouldn't have called it a date.

OhWesternWind Sat 15-Jun-13 21:20:34

Bill I think if you're seeing someone more than a couple of times it's worth putting the stuff with other people on hold to give things a chance. I'm all for keeping options open before meeting or in the early days, but there has to be a limit.

Looking back, once I've gone out with someone a couple of times and felt like something could develop I've not gone online (or only to check if the man has been online). Worryingly I seem to have got to this stage with the Alpha Scot after date one, which has never happened before and contravenes rule 2 of the dating thread.

He's given me his email so I can stay in contact whilst he's abroad. Don't want to look too keen - should I wait until Monday?

BillMasen Sat 15-Jun-13 21:25:54

Hoping juliette is ok btw

Yes, me too. Have been thinking about her this afternoon. Hope you're alright Jules

ALittleStranger Sat 15-Jun-13 21:30:36

I don't think it necessarily contravenes rule 2 OWW. There's a difference between investing emotionally and giving someone the courtersy of your attention.

What's odd with Cheshire Bant?

Kirstywirsty Sat 15-Jun-13 21:30:38

Yes me too Bill .. How are things Juliette??

Flipper924 Sat 15-Jun-13 21:39:29

Welcome to Tortilla, hope you've come over from the other thread. You really can't tell until you meet someone, so maybe go and meet the first guy? The ex friend of your ex? Well, that would depend on a lot of things, for me.

Also concerned about Jules, I can't abide lying. I hope it's something you can work through.

Bill, you have my sympathy about the Italian, and I agree with Bant. If it wasn't a date, why call it that?

Am going to pm you, Bant, if that's ok.

Bant Sat 15-Jun-13 21:39:57

Cheshire is very attractive, and ultra cutesy, in terms of posting pictures of grinning hedgehogs in her FB messages to me and stuff. She's intelligent and sweet, but she doesn't seem passionate about anything. She wants to leave Hungary, and I think she's looking for a man to help her do that.

But. I'll keep on keeping on to see how things go. And I won't date anyone else until I know..

MirandaWest Sat 15-Jun-13 21:40:18

I am already bored of marking exam papers. This does not bode well for the next four weeks. Am eating chicken korma before doing some more.

Hope Juliette is OK.

OWW when did Alpha give you his email address? I am useless at acting cool so would probably email him now but I like emailing smile

pornstarmartini Sat 15-Jun-13 21:44:10

Hello all. Didn't realise we'd moved threads.

OhWesternWind Sat 15-Jun-13 21:46:26

Hoping to hear from Juliette soon too, hoping and hoping all is well.

We've been texting Miranda and a couple of days after our date (Thursday?) he texted his email address so I could keep in touch if I wanted to whilst he was away. He's not back til next Sunday so I think I will.

He's just been looking at my profile again ...

MirandaWest Sat 15-Jun-13 21:47:17

Definitely send him an email. Now grin

KinNora Sat 15-Jun-13 21:56:53

OWW - email, email, email ! Blimey I'm always astonished by people with patience

T2710 Sat 15-Jun-13 22:00:53

Oww I think should email him, you only live once :0)

OhWesternWind Sat 15-Jun-13 22:02:07

No, just about to watch lovely Louis Theroux and the porn stars and drink cider .... Tomorrow maybe!

brokenhearted55 Sat 15-Jun-13 22:03:54

This will be my first date since having my heart ripped out sad
Bit nervous!

pornstarmartini Sat 15-Jun-13 22:10:52

oww you have self control!

broken fingers crossed for you x

Well my new profile photo has generated some interest.I wonder if PC Arse will pop up. Must be strong and resist him. I know he isn't right :-(

mercury7 Sat 15-Jun-13 22:13:43

'ex friend of an ex' sounds like the violation of some rule about double negatives! grin

Pomegranatenoir Sat 15-Jun-13 22:19:24

Tonight I have laughed till I cried with my little boy, made a red velvet cake and had some amazing chats with a new man on pof!

Oww you are one cool chick!!!

martini Mentalky step away from PC Plod. He is a badden!!! Your profile pic is lovely!!!

broken good luck. What's the worst that can happen...!

bant I haven't got a good feeling about Cheshire! If something feels too good to be true, it often is!

Hello to everyone else!!

pornstarmartini Sat 15-Jun-13 22:30:49

Mwah pom red velvet cake sounds lovely. Details required about new man. I knew he is bad but dammmmmmn I want him to want me! I have been chatting to someone else tonight. He was about for a while before but it never really went anywhere. Amazingwhat a change of photo can do.

brokenhearted55 Sat 15-Jun-13 22:36:52

Oh actually I tell a lie: it'll be my second date since the split.

The first date I had was so awful I went crying home on the train missing my ex even more.

OhWesternWind Sat 15-Jun-13 22:41:33

Broken - do you think you're ready to start dating? It can be a very positive thing and good fun, and more, but sometimes it can be a bit hard on the spirits and self confidence. If you're feeling ready, then go for it, but if not no harm in waiting a while.

brokenhearted55 Sat 15-Jun-13 22:46:08

It's been since January......

Pomegranatenoir Sat 15-Jun-13 22:48:49

martini new man has kept me entertained all night. We have a shared love of pj bottoms, full fat coke and our Nans! He just asked to meet up bit he lives about an hour away. Looks moderately good looking. Not over the top, just right. Very funny though and nice manners. Obviously I have gathered this from his messages so I could be waaaaaaay off the mark. And of course now I have mentioned him he will vanish!!

Your new pic is really lovely. Not surprised they are flocking!!

Kirstywirsty Sat 15-Jun-13 22:50:20

broken I think even your user name suggests that you aren't ready .. I was 9 months before I dated and another 2 months before I had sex with him.. Be kind to yourself

OhWesternWind Sat 15-Jun-13 22:52:21

That's not all that long, Broken, but it's all to do with how you feel in yourself rather than how long it's been. I'm not trying to put you off at all but if you're not feeling "up" and self-confident then dating can be a bit difficult. I really don't want to tell you what to do at all apart from saying just be sure in yourself that you're ready.

pornstarmartini Sat 15-Jun-13 22:53:45

pom sounds like fun. An hour away isn't bad. I'll message you the username of the one I've been chatting to. He's nice and attractive but I kinda feel out of his league. Photo was taken last night before I went out. I do not look like that today. Finally got out of bed at 5pm. Had a bath and ate. I'm detoxing for 4 weeks now

OhWesternWind Sat 15-Jun-13 22:56:50

Pom. Oooh he sounds promising! Great if you can make each other laugh, that's so important. Do you think you'll meet up?

Pomegranatenoir Sat 15-Jun-13 23:01:50

martini he isnt out of your league. Not at all!!!

oww maybe, just maybe!!! Ive not been on a date for ages now. It's been months. I get bit scared but not too scared not to go for it if I want to! Just way more selective of who I give my time to!

T2710 Sat 15-Jun-13 23:21:13

I have a random question for you all. How many messages received do you ignore, and if you ignore, why is this? I'm not sure if I'm being too picky initially and not giving people a chance due to my idealist ideas :-s

brokenhearted55 Sat 15-Jun-13 23:22:59

I'm not ready probably and I still love my ex. But this guy seems really nice so I may ad well give it a try.

T2710 Sat 15-Jun-13 23:29:08

Broken, I've been single about as long as you. Broke up with ex as he cheated (amongst other things) but was still pretty damn upset.
I Went on a few dates with zero expectations after a short while and met someone I liked, saw him a few times, and whilst it hasnt gone anywhere, it's really helped me to move on from ex. I'm still hurt, but I no longer cry over him and really ding care that he's in a new relationship now. Just don't pressure yourself and enjoy just going out!

Pomegranatenoir Sat 15-Jun-13 23:30:51

broken I say go for it. You are not marrying the man you are just going on a date. It's good to meet other people. I really believe that people are brought into our lives for a reason. He might not be the one for you (although he may well be!) but you could get a lot out of the experience. My first date after my ex left was a lovely man. Not for me but he helped me massively. We met up quite a few times and he was great to talk to but no spark. Hope it goes well

OhWesternWind Sat 15-Jun-13 23:32:00

T I ignore anything like Hi. Or Hey. Or How's you. Etc etc etc. Also anything rude or smutty. If the message is decent and they've put a bit of thought and effort in I will generally reply (unless it's the stalker weirdo guy who's currently hounding me on two sites).

Broken, love, if you still love your ex then wait a while until you feel like moving on with someone else. Don't think that it's six months so you ought to be dating, or whatever, it doesn't work like that. I waited eighteen months before I felt like dating again because my ex had put me off men so badly and I'm glad I did.

Pomegranatenoir Sat 15-Jun-13 23:34:23

t I ignore anyone that I that doesn't fit my criteria. The criteria has got more finely tuned the longer I've been on pof but there has to be something there to pull you in. If someone is borderline then I give them the benefit of the doubt but they have to work for it!! Ha ha. You deserve the very best

T2710 Sat 15-Jun-13 23:48:03

Sounds like I do about the same as you both! Fab.

TortillasAndChocolate Sun 16-Jun-13 00:04:01

Thank you. I'll wait to see if the guy from POF messages when he's back from his trip and will meet up with him if he does - I kind of like the fact I'm on the fence about him. I think if I was thinking 'wow' I would be setting myself up for disappointment whereas this way a spark is just a bonus, but not something I'm banking on.

The ex friend of the ex (that sounds ridiculous!) is such a lovely guy - I think the fact he isn't over confident with women is the reason he's still single. He's about 5 years older than me - but he does live 300 miles away! Although I go there semi-regularly as it's where ex-p's family live so I visit with DS. Anyway, he's travelling this way for work soon and asked if I fancied meeting for a drink. He may just mean as friends and not have any other interest in me - but I think I'll go for the drink and see.

So far on POF I have been ignoring 'hi'' and 'hey babe' etc. I ignore a lot more than I reply to so not sure if I'm being a bit picky. It's so difficult to have a clue if you'll fancy someone.

Juliette - really hope you're ok. I can't stand lying. My ex was and still is a huge liar about serious things and really trivial pointless things. I can imagine how you must feel. But I hope this was a one off in this case as it had all been going so well until now

TortillasAndChocolate Sun 16-Jun-13 00:07:13

mercury you're right. Maybe I need to rethink this ex friend of an ex thing - or maybe the 2 negatives equal a positive and it's all just meant to be. grin

MagzFarqharson Sun 16-Jun-13 00:20:07

Two of my lovely friends have been scammed by the 'ooo my child has a terrible illness and needs an airfare to somefuckinwhere' Luckily they both stopped in time to realise it was all fake, but only a few weeks/days ago... i've advised them to come on here and read threads, compare experiences etc...i've lurked on your thread every now and again and gained some valuable information myself.....where to start? I know they'll get some invaluable support if they come on here won't they xxx

mercury7 Sun 16-Jun-13 00:39:44

Tortilla, very true! you could look at it from a mathematical or a grammatical perspective, take your pick wink

mercury7 Sun 16-Jun-13 00:42:08

Scammedsad oh dearsad
I dont recall being approached by anyone who seemed to be that kind of a scammer.
Do you know what sites your friends were using Magz?

Poogate Sun 16-Jun-13 06:20:05

Hello again everyone, I have another question for you, oh wise ones. What is it with OD men (and women, perhaps) that disappear for a couple of weeks and then send a text saying "hi, how are you?", like its totally normal to have a few dates and then f off for a bit and then reappear.

This to me is bad form, but maybe I'm just old fashioned. Has this happened to anyone else? Is it normal? Am I over sensitive?

KinNora Sun 16-Jun-13 07:00:36

Hello Poogate that's easily answered, yes it is bad form, yes a fair number of people do that kind of thing (absolutely no idea why) and no, you're not being over-sensitive in the slightest - he had his chance and cocked it up, it's a big bye bye now for him.

SmallChanges Sun 16-Jun-13 07:30:53

Morning thread 56!

Morning and hello Pooh (I've added the 'h' for my own comfort grin).

Morning Twin

I am on the sofa, Lab is a busy bee, so arranging us getting together has become increasingly difficult. Might see him next week, but it feels as though it is fizzling out IMO.

Am off to the gym, for a exhausting but necessary session. <Sighs>

KinNora Sun 16-Jun-13 07:34:02

Morning Twinny - gym ?

TheTitleSaysItAllReally Sun 16-Jun-13 08:04:17

Date #2 went well. Very well grin

velvetspoon Sun 16-Jun-13 08:20:49

Feel suddenly exhausted at the thought of the gym on a Sunday! (actually tbh the gym on any day has that effect on me...)

Had 9 hours of much needed sleep last night. Feel slightly less of a teary mess now. Woke up to 2 whatsapp messages, 3 facebook notifications and an email. But of course none of it from C.

superdooperpenguin Sun 16-Jun-13 08:42:03

Happy father's day to bant and bill and any other boys I've missed!

Velvet I'm sorry to hear about C, i think dating can be so cruel and really hope someone fabulous is about to pop on the scene for you. I think you've been very brave, it's easy to settle when you like someone so much but you're standing up for yourself, well done you.

bill - Italian has a decision to make, it's good you've been clear about where you stand. Hopefully she will realise how fabulous you are and stick with you.

I had an amazing date on Fri night, I've been all warm and glowy ever since! We went to the pub in his village and I met some of his friends and got on really well with everyone. It's the first time I've been to his house and we ended up drunk and in his hot tub at 1am, I've left my underwear drying at his house!

The trouble is when I have a few good dates I have a tendency to turn into a phone checking mentalist! I can't stop checking my phone to see if he's replied to a text or tried to call and I'm driving myself crazy with it!

Snapespeare Sun 16-Jun-13 09:15:32

Thread mark and wave, good morning daters! Happy Father's Day to the good-guys! smile

KinNora Sun 16-Jun-13 09:27:03

Gyms are wrong, full of hearty athletic types. Shudder.

I'm glad you had a good night and feel better Velvet

The I'm assuming grin = 'Coffee' , in which case, bravo !

T2710 Sun 16-Jun-13 09:27:13

Glad you got some sleep velvet! Hope you continue to feel a little better each day x

Super, brilliant you had a good date!! I'm afraid I'm also guilty of becoming an avid phone checker after a couple of dates. It drives me crazy but I can't help it!

Happy Father's Day daddies!!

T2710 Sun 16-Jun-13 09:28:07

Oh title, you too! Brilliant! Now I just need a good date hmm

MirandaWest Sun 16-Jun-13 09:30:10

Morning smile Am at local park awaiting start of a men's 5k in aid of cancer research. Mr Nice is running in it (in shorts ;)) there are many other men so good excuse for a teeny bit of ogling of other bodies grin. Not so taken with the animal outfits and Alice in Wonderland one though...

TortillasAndChocolate Sun 16-Jun-13 09:37:54

Morning everyone! And happy Father's Day dads.

title and super glad you had good dates! title - tell us more!

Velvet hope you're ok. Not replying in my opinion is just so much worse than sending a reply that's not not what you want to hear. It's just so cowardly and horrible for you to be left if limbo wondering if he still might reply. Only time's going to make this one better - I'm just sorry you have to go through feeling like this before you get there.

Ex just picked up DS for the day - he usually has him on a Saturday but swapped to a Sunday for Father's Day. DS has made him a card and I bought a little present despite getting nothing for Mother's Day. I keep telling myself I'm doing it for DS not ex and its the right thing to do.

Anyway that's not dating related but I have nothing dating related to report!

TheTitleSaysItAllReally Sun 16-Jun-13 10:04:09

Not quite freshly ground coffee, but not far off either! wink

I'm very much keeping it 'in the moment' - I don't need a new relationship, I need fun and entertainment. But he lived up to his name, and was indeed Mr Lovely. He didn't seem to mind about all the wobbly bits and was very complimentary (!) about things that STBXH was very nasty about. It was very much a confidence boost because he made me feel like the most desirable person in the restaurant. Which is, I know, as it should be, but it never has been before!

I've already got plans for the next couple of weekends, but I'm hoping to see him midweek maybe, and then who knows... As I said, I'm living for the moment. And right now he makes me laugh, smile and more, So, he's Mr Right for right now.

Happy Father's Day dads - I too organised the gifts here, not because he's a great dad (far from it angry) but because it's important to the children.

BillMasen Sun 16-Jun-13 10:31:28

Hi all. Thanks for the Father's Day hellos. I have my kids all weekend so have opened gifts, put hand made cards on display and off to the pub later (ok maybe not that last one, probably the park. They're a bit little for pubs).

Hope all the other dads on here(posting or lurking) are getting time with their kids today too.

Bant Sun 16-Jun-13 10:44:19

We've been breaking records on Just Dance for Xbox. And I've been enjoying my giant toblerone.

TheTitleSaysItAllReally Sun 16-Jun-13 10:46:13

Have great days, guys. You two make me want to cry for how it should be for my kids sad

Pomegranatenoir Sun 16-Jun-13 11:05:19

I have got presents for my kids to give to their dad. Even though I never got a birthday, Christmas or Mother's Day present. I didn't do it for him. I did it for the kids. My little boy loved picking something then decorating it. And then when they get picked up to go out with their dad for a big family meal in a bit I will wave them off with a big smile and then secretly cry inside. Then I will pick myself up and do some gardening. My dad is in holiday so I can't even do something nice with him!!

I don't want my horrible ex or the way he treated me but sometimes the alternative doesn't feel that great either.

Happy Father's Day to all the good dads

MirandaWest Sun 16-Jun-13 11:20:02

You know my XH is a good dad. He may not have been an especially good husband butb

OhWesternWind Sun 16-Jun-13 11:23:06

Me too, Title. We are ignoring Fathers' Day in this house sad

Lovely that the two Bs are having a great time with their families, just how it should be. And also lovely to see people rising above petty behaviour from their exes to make it a good day for their dc. Hope none of that sounded patronising, not intended to be at all. Am just a bit envy on behalf of my dc. I wish they had a good, loving dad. So hard for them.

MirandaWest Sun 16-Jun-13 11:23:29

Gah!
But I wasn't always a good wife either. He has the DC today and there are two cards for him, a coconut ice mouse DD made for him at brownies, a tile decorated at breakfast club and a jar of lime marmalade (he loves lime marmalade).

Am sure I did get things for Mother's Day (why can't I remember?)

Bant Sun 16-Jun-13 11:42:33

Thinking of it, there's a good red flag detector for any of you chatting to single fathers - what did you do on Father's Day? (only valid for the next couple of weeks)-
It'll tell you:
What he thinks of his kids, and they of him
Whether he has a 'bitch ex from hell' ( red flag)

And it's not the kind of thing he can make up on the spot, or have a precanned answer for

MirandaWest Sun 16-Jun-13 12:01:33

Sorry about the cross post OWW - wasnt meant to look as insensitive as it ended up sad

ALittleStranger Sun 16-Jun-13 12:04:26

(Discreet hand hold for Velvet who is probably thinking of her awesome dad)

Pomegranatenoir Sun 16-Jun-13 13:08:15

Kids now with their dad. He turned up 45 mins late then wasnt bothered in the slightest about the lovely present my little boy made for him. Even when he was explaining how he picked it in the shop and then brought it home and made it. Nor did he comment on how beautiful my little girl looked in her dress. he gave me orders yesterday in what to dress my little boy in, not on mention on dd. i dressed him in the outfit but it was all too big.

Normally I would have been seething inside at his bad behaviour. Not today though - the comedy outfit that he had on made me chuckle. Really not sure what look he was going for today but i'm pretty sure the mod look with shirt that was too small with sweaty armpits and popping buttons on his belly, finished off with skinny jeans turned up and ridiculous shoes, wasnt it!! He is balding, grey and overweight and horrible inside - why did I spend months crying over him!!??

I am now tucked up in my sofa, with a cup of tea and slice of home made red velvet cake. Happy Father's Day to me and all of the other mums/ parents out there that do the work of 2 parents.

OhWesternWind Sun 16-Jun-13 13:13:06

Excellent Pom - you're seeing him for what he really is. Eww. Happy Fathers' Day to you!

OhWesternWind Sun 16-Jun-13 13:14:45

Oh, Miranda not insensitive at all, please don't worry! Glad there are more good dads out there than crap ones.

Snapespeare Sun 16-Jun-13 14:02:21

i'm catching up on telly, watching 'dates' with lovely Sheridan Smith & yelling 'red flag! RED FLAG!!'

brokenhearted55 Sun 16-Jun-13 15:02:57

How long does it generally take to arrange a date from communicating to meeting. what.is a bad sign?

OhWesternWind Sun 16-Jun-13 15:08:53

Difficult to say Broken as it will depend on both people's other commitments. I'd generally try for within a week or so but have had it sooner and later. Is something making you worry here?

Snapespeare Sun 16-Jun-13 15:15:34

smile too quick is a bad sign, too long is also a bad sign. grin 'Too quick' does however, have the bonus of not giving you time to really like someone on the basis of their written word communications and then loathe them on sight or find out they have obviously fibbed about age/height/teeth...I've arranged a date after a couple of days (no spark) I'd lose interest after about 3 weeks if no date were forthcoming & think they weren't actually interested.

48howdidthathappen Sun 16-Jun-13 16:30:40

Place marking smile

Had another fantastic night with Mr R&R.

We are going back to Scotland in August for a week. I can see why he loves the highlands so much. Can't wait grin

Djangounhinged Sun 16-Jun-13 17:14:35

Hello to you all smile, haven't been on for a good few days so about to catch up on end of thread 55...

Not much happening on the dating front for me... Tried to push for a date with cute joiner as he kept saying he wanted to meet... Radio silence since. Kind of what I thought would happen, so I've decided not to waste any more time on him.

My experience on POF to date is that most guys just want to chat, and some of them are quite upfront about that. I haven't yet come across anyone who has been looking to meet up within a week (apart from those looking for a ONS).

So I'm just going to chat to a few for now and see if anything comes of it.... Really beginning to see the value of having a few on the go at the same time, if there are lots of chats going on then it doesn't bother me so much when one of them drops off the scene.

envy To those of you getting out there on lovely dates!

TortillasAndChocolate Sun 16-Jun-13 17:16:33

DS is back from his dads. Ex promised me some money today as hasn't paid maintenance since march. I just asked him for it and was told he'd give it to me on Wednesday - I said look I am really short and he got really angry and said I'm impatient and unreasonable. Oh well.

DS and I are having a cuddle in front of Peppa pig. He's my date for this evening grin

Once he's in bed I might have a browse on POF and see if there is anyone worth catching. I'm so lazy I tend to wait for people to message me but maybe I need to be more proactive...

Scrazy Sun 16-Jun-13 17:21:37

Place marking too.

Velvet, how are you feeling today. Hope you are a bit brighter. FWIW, I think C not replying is terrible and I would find that very difficult to deal with.

Juliette, are you OK?

Nothing much to report from me, still going strong with my man. Think after over 3 years of seeing him I should call him LT. Had another great night together. I know we will probably never progress to a serious moving in type relationship and I should really look for that now that I have a grown up child and am free, but I carn't face the thought of breaking up. He might have to do it for it to end for good, but no signs of him wanting to either.

Hello to newbies and everyone else.

Scrazy Sun 16-Jun-13 17:24:22

Oops, hope I haven't jinked it giving him a name, well initials aren't really a name, are they?

ALittleStranger Sun 16-Jun-13 17:29:58

I really don't understand people who are just there to chat. What do they get out of it??

OhWesternWind Sun 16-Jun-13 17:36:08

Tortillas answer might be to go via the CSA - they can't backdate though so might be an idea to try and get him to pay what he owes then when he's done that hand the whole thing over to the CSA. What an arse.

Django hope you find some chat-worthy men tonight. I think you're right, lots of men don't really want to date or only date very infrequently. Odd, can't see why you'd be in a dating site then ... I think as a general rule if they've not asked for a date within a week or so then they're not going to.

Alpha Scot is now ensconced on the Continent, cue much viewing of my profile (once last night and twice today) and he's messaged me via the site. Haven't had chance to read it yet. Feel like I'm putting all my eggs in one (or two!) baskets at the mo with him and I'm also texting College Bloke who has asked me out in principle but has failed to actually make any arrangrments. Haven't been online for a while, don't feel in the mood for it really. No dates lined up for next week which feels very weird. Can't remember the last time I had a week without at least one date!

brokenhearted55 Sun 16-Jun-13 17:47:14

Western and Snape:

First contact on dating site at end May. Swapped numbers and began texting about a week into June. Now date pencilled in for next Saturday, 22nd.

Sound ok?

OhWesternWind Sun 16-Jun-13 18:01:13

I think that's fine, Broken. The thing is if it feels right to you - no pressurising you into meeting before you feel comfortable, no feeling that he's holding out on you or making silly excuses not to meet. Are you happy with how it's all gone?

No alarm bells for me at all with those timings though.

Snapespeare Sun 16-Jun-13 18:32:37

I think that's a fine timeframe broken smile

I reiterate what was said up thread (I think...) with regards to time passed between break up and dating again. I think different people have different time frames. I was dating within weeks of finding out XP was having an affair I say dating, I mean catching up on ONS I probably wasn't in the right place mentally or emotionally to enter into another relationship, but feeling attractive and desirable certainly helped me on the way to recovery. I would approach with caution and think of it as a bit of fun and starting to heal from XPs behaviour and treatment by getting back out there (& it's ok to have a little cry after dates! I remember crying that a perfectly reasonable chap wasn't XP! XP who had fucked me over! Because we had made a promise by having DCs and he had broken the promise and therefore wasn't who I thought he was)

anyway, I think entering into dating now is fine, the time elapsed between initial contact etc is fine and the proposal to meet on the 22nd is fine. I refer you to the thread rules. smile don't get emotionally invested, tread with caution and just look forwards to what will hopefully be a nice date with someone lovely. NIC nothing comes of it, then you're just a little further on in your journey. smile

BloomingRose Sun 16-Jun-13 18:34:06

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bant Sun 16-Jun-13 18:55:04

Seeing Bloomings comment made me think how lucky I am, and my kids are - I've dropped them back with their mum now and, barring the occasional argument, it's mostly okay. I helped them make stuff for mothers day, she helped them make stuff for today (and presumably chose the toblerone)

But you lot who have to play mother and father all year round with little help - just my exhaustion - happy tired but tired all the same - puts me in awe of the lot of you who do it all year round, 24/7, with little or no help.

So, have an extra wine tonight. If that's not incredibly condescending. Sorry if it is.

brokenhearted55 Sun 16-Jun-13 19:07:58

Thank you that makes me feel better.

I'll text back and confirm and ask him the time etc.

My ex.really fcked me over so I feel a bit fragile.

BloomingRose Sun 16-Jun-13 19:20:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TortillasAndChocolate Sun 16-Jun-13 19:23:00

Thanks Western - I may well go through CSA. The only problem is he runs his own business so will make out he earns next to nothing. I have no way of knowing what he should really be paying. It's frustrating.

Ok DS about to go to bed. Lets hope there are some hot witty men on POF just waiting to chat to me...

Hrrrm Sun 16-Jun-13 19:23:12

Have now got round to watching 'dates' and love it. I keep wondering what the characters would post on this thread... Agree definitely lots of red flags. Quite liked the surgeon and Mia together.

Pomegranate - disappointing behaviour from your DC's dad. They're lucky to have you.

Two days until my first ever date (if he doesn't cancel), so I've done some more Internet stalking and have a question. He lives with a female housemate who is the same age as both of us and absolutely stunning. She's also doing OD. Is this a red flag? Surely if you lived with someone of the opposite sex who is also looking, you'd at least think about it, wouldn't you? She seems very tall blonde and skinny and one of her profile pictures is of her boobs... He mentioned they go clubbing with friends every weekend and he's very passionate about this hmm I'm not really the clubbing type

brokenhearted55 Sun 16-Jun-13 19:23:20

Thanks Rose smile

I'm going.to give it a shot. I'm doing a lot better than I was a few months ago.

I hope he likes me he seems very sweet.

Pomegranatenoir Sun 16-Jun-13 19:23:53

My ex dropped the kids back half hour late no apology just blamed it on ds not wanting to stop playing with his cousins. Then had this lovely Convo

Me: "see you in 2 weeks then"
Twunt: "erm no I can't I have got a gig (to see not play) in London so I can't have them on the sat"
Me: "oh right. Still okay for Sunday then"
Twunt: "no I might have a hangover"
Me: "how about you don't drink"
Twunt: "I'm not saying I will drink but I'm not risking my licence just to drive here to see the kids"
Me: "you make some brilliant decisions"
Twunt: "well this is all your fault!"
Me: "really? All my fault??! I can hand in heart say that this whole situation is completely your fault. I could go into details but I've got better things to do"

God give me strength!!!

So guys, in your wisdom can you advise me. Do I allow him to see the kids one day next weekend (and them miss a party because he refuses to take them to parties) and then one day 2 weeks after or stand by my guns and write off the visit he can't make and have the next visit in 4 weeks time? He only sees them fortnightly - his choice!!

Have to say I really am seeing him for what he is - manipulative moron!! With terrible taste in clothes!!!! Ha ha

TortillasAndChocolate Sun 16-Jun-13 19:27:10

brokenhearted good luck. If you go and meet him, you will probably have more idea how 'ready' you are to date based on how you feel afterwards. But some positive attention can't hurt. And if you suddenly think you've rushed it and aren't ready, there's nothing to stop you putting dating on hold.
You'll be changing your name to heartmended before you know it.

Hrrrm Sun 16-Jun-13 19:27:45

Depends on your kids - would they miss him a lot? If not, I'd say stick to the schedule, and if he chooses other things over his kids, his loss. I'm always glad when I have a bit of extra time with DD and we don't have to see her tosser father.

brokenhearted55 Sun 16-Jun-13 19:30:24

Thanks tortillas.

I had a date back in March and we had nothing in common and no chemistry. It was amazing with my ex so I felt that what I had with him could never happen again and went home crying on the train.

I.feel a bit better now. So I'll try him out!

Pomegranatenoir Sun 16-Jun-13 19:30:43

They are both pretty young and used to him not being around. They don't have any expectation to see him. He doesn't even call them on the phone so I don't think they would miss him. Dd doesn't really know him as he left when she was 5 weeks old. Ds loves his dad but doesn't expect to see him. It's a toughie!

TortillasAndChocolate Sun 16-Jun-13 19:35:04

Pom my ex brought DS back half an hour late and didnt even acknowledge he was late. Also didnt say thanks for his present or anything.

Has your ex asked for next weekend or were you just planning to offer it? If next weekend interferes with your plans I'd say don't budge. But things like that make me angry on the kids' behalf.

Bant Sun 16-Jun-13 19:35:24

Pom

Firstly -he refuses to take them to parties? What a twat.

Secondly - if he chooses not to have them that weekend because he'll be too hungover, confirm that by email with him (diplomatically phrased of course)

Thirdly, if he can't make his weekend because of something like that, I'd write off the weekend and not rearrange because you've already made plans for the other weekends you have them (even if those plans don't exist) It's unreasonable of him to expect you to cancel plans because he's planning on getting pissed. So you can document he's spending less than one weekend a fortnight with them, and his maintenance payments will be increased accordingly, if those haven't already been finalised.

The half hour late thing - well these things do happen, especially with young kids involved, but no apology is a bit off.

Hrrm - I've lived with single attractive housemates before and there just wasn't anything happening between us - we were friends, that's all. No spark = no involvement. (I may have possibly slept with several of her friends though) -

The passion about clubbing is a bit strange though, if you're not into them. Very different lifestyles if he describes himself as 'passionate' about it.

TortillasAndChocolate Sun 16-Jun-13 19:40:18

brokenhearted I know what you mean. I've kind of avoided dating a bit until now because the thought of starting from scratch is so depressing. It's hard to imagine getting from where I am now to having a huge connection with someone and being in love again etc.
it's just so rare that I get that spark with anyone.

But it will happen - I'm bloody determined it will. And the more time that goes on, the less I can remember the things I liked about my ex.

ALittleStranger Sun 16-Jun-13 19:41:52

There is a tendency on OD Hrrm for people to overuse "passionate". But if it's a big thing for him and you hate it that might not be an issue. But remember 97% of first dates are duds (fact) so I wouldn't sweat that yet if there are other connections.

And I wouldn't worry about the housemate. Either you're right and they have thought about it and it hasn't worked, or there's just no spark etc. I hate this expectation that just because two people are single they should be hooking up. If that was the case OD would have a much better success rate than it does

Moanranger Sun 16-Jun-13 19:46:22

bill, Bant , Respect! My DC did not do anything with STBXH today.
Juliette M, I am thinking of you. Are you ok?
Meet Up guy and I have now had 5 v nice indeed overnights & decided Sat to spend a day together. Low key, a walk, visited a charming village, tea & cake, then back to mine for dinner. V successful. The overnights have been fab, but my concern is that there would be no where to go - after fireworks, then what? But I find the experience is deepening, IYKWIM. The L-word is emerging in my thoughts. "Rules" would say, wait for him to say it. Last night he said he "cared deeply." Part of me says words are meaningless. So I either wait or blurt.

Hrrrm Sun 16-Jun-13 19:58:53

Thanks, Bant and Stranger, that's encouraging. (Apart from that 97% statistic!)

Pomegranatenoir Sun 16-Jun-13 20:49:39

Thanks for the advice. Think I will wait for him to get in touch. I know he won't and then I won't have to have Ny kind of conversation with him. In his head he honestly thinks this is all my doing!!!

Chatting to 4 men on pof. Making me laugh. This is a good thing. Exh really doesn't feature anymore. I am making some serious progress!!!

When's Juliette back? I have to admit to being a little bit worried about her. Not her safety, but her emotional well-being. Jules, if you're out there, a stranger on the internet is worried about you hmm grin

Bant Sun 16-Jun-13 21:05:55

I was just thinking the same thing, Stumped

Juliette - let us know you're okay?

Winefiend Sun 16-Jun-13 21:14:30

Also checking in to place mark and hoping Juliette updates soon.

Mainly lurking at the mo as bloody busy (and semi-sofa-ed bar the odd rl liaison) but I am liking reading dating stories from you new guys!

Happy Father's Day to the wonderful dads on this thread and amazing mums who play both mum and dad flowers

brokenhearted55 Sun 16-Jun-13 21:19:09

Where did that 97% statistic come from?

OhWesternWind Sun 16-Jun-13 21:21:22

Yes, me too, been thinking about you a lot Juliette

Pom that bloke sounds like a right waste of space. How could it possibly be your fault? Having a laugh with some other (attractive?) men sounds like the perfect antidote.

How much Toblerone is left Bant?

And Moan - the L word you say??? Will have to dust my hat off ...

Pomegranatenoir Sun 16-Jun-13 21:25:10

Yes I'm also worrried about juliette. Can anyone contact her via other means??

OhWesternWind Sun 16-Jun-13 21:33:57

I think that came from Statmeister Bant, Broken

I've had twenty dates now, leading to one seven month relationship, one five date fling, one three date thing (both finished by me) and the nice Alpha Scot thing I hope is just starting off. All the rest were no spark (on my side at least). So that's an 80% no spark rate for me. If you discount the three date and five date guys, neither of whom I was totally bowled over by, it's up to 90%. But all those dates were good fun apart from the Creepy Italian and Bitumen Man!

Bant Sun 16-Jun-13 21:35:12

oooh I'd forgotten the toblerone...

TortillasAndChocolate Sun 16-Jun-13 21:43:19

I have some tough decisions to make now. Cup of tea and biscuits or glass of wine and chocolate? I can't decide.

I'm bored on POF tonight. No one is really doing anything for me. I think maybe I'm too tired and should log out until tomorrow.

Thank you everyone for asking about me, I haven't been on the thread since yesterday morning so hadn't seen all the posts but I'm touched.

I have spent most of today travelling, am now home in UK. Got a different flight. I'm ok. I am also seriously pissed off, had a very crap day yesterday which feels like a lifetime ago.

I will probably only post about fluffy bunnies and cute puppies for a while.

Bant Sun 16-Jun-13 21:50:30

Juliette - glad you're okay, or at least safe.

Fluffy bunnies are always a safe topic. Hope you're alright - if you want to talk, let us know, on here or privately

48howdidthathappen Sun 16-Jun-13 21:52:34

Pleased to hear you are home Juliette Sorry you are pissed off.

Bring on the bunnies and puppies smile

pornstarmartini Sun 16-Jun-13 21:58:03

You lot have been busy. I'm going to try and catch up. Ex was here seeing the kids so I've been out and about in the real world. Taking me all my willpower to not message PC Arse and ask why he's decided to totally ignore me. Been having a chat with a couple of people on POF but no one that lights my fire. Quick Skype with Mr Sky but he's not mentioned meeting.

pornstarmartini Sun 16-Jun-13 21:58:49

Welcome back juliette x

ColinButterfly Sun 16-Jun-13 21:59:26

Hello well I started fishing on POF a few weeks ago, met up with a guy twice now (put out on the first date, oh dear) but I have to say, he's not forthcoming with texts which leads me to think its just sex. Oh dear! Need to learn the rules. If he ignores my last text do I write him off?

pornstarmartini Sun 16-Jun-13 22:01:16

Oh that doesn't sound great

BloomingRose Sun 16-Jun-13 22:04:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ColinButterfly Sun 16-Jun-13 22:05:43

That's what I was afraid of

BloomingRose Sun 16-Jun-13 22:08:14

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Thanks Bant I may do later.

and 48,Martini and Rose (waves to everyone else) smile

brokenhearted55 Sun 16-Jun-13 22:32:07

Ok he texted and said meet for coffee and Then we can eat if we get on well

That sound ok?

Bant Sun 16-Jun-13 22:36:45

sounds like a good plan for a date

Moanranger Sun 16-Jun-13 22:40:11

Bant, just read your 13 tips - I PMSL at number 7 ( only 1 picture of your horse)- in my world that can be a problem!

OhWesternWind Sun 16-Jun-13 22:41:17

Broken - I keep saying this, but does that sound okay to you? Are you happy having a coffee? Would you prefer to do something else?

It sounds fine, although personally I'd like to know if we're eating out or not so I can have something beforehand if necessary.

Glad you're home safe Juliette.

akaWisey Sun 16-Jun-13 22:43:23

Hey all.

I've been trying to embrace OD for a while. I get lots of 'views' and 'winks' and messages etc. But I'm picky in RL so responding to hazy, badly taken self portraits is a no-no for me. Every now and again (today) a 'gem' comes up but wtf he lives too far away - aarrgghh!!!!

just wanted to vent here. blush

brokenhearted55 Sun 16-Jun-13 22:43:59

Western yes I am happy having a coffee. I also suggested a walk in the park too which is fine by me.

I keep scanning his texts for.potential that he may not follow through. that's all that concerns me.

brokenhearted55 Sun 16-Jun-13 22:45:37

Ps western I don't like the suggestion that if i don't get taken for dinner, that means he doesn't like me.

Should I say something?

Bant Sun 16-Jun-13 22:47:30

ranger - that translates for men as 'no more than one picture of you holding a fish'

Are you really interested in the size of fish a man has caught? We're generally not interested in the horse you ride. To most of us, it's a world we don't understand. It may even translate as 'no more than one picture of your Ford Cortina' as some men have a relationship with their cars in the same way some women have a relationship with their horse. People are weird.

On a related note, I was just winked at by a woman in Hungaria who has 22 photos on her profile. 3 of them have her in it. The others are forests, buildings, windswept roads, a beach or two, some fields. Oh and a horse. In a field. Alone.

That really gives me no information about her apart from she has a camera, or access to google, and she likes pictures of things.

Not much help when trying to choose a date, or possible life-partner, really.

OhWesternWind Sun 16-Jun-13 22:50:12

Yes, I'm not sure I'd like that either Broken! You could text back and say you've only got an hour or so, so just a coffee and a walk would be good. Keeping it short if you're not sure can be a good idea - you can always stay longer if things are going really well.

I'm sure it will all be fine.

akaWisey Sun 16-Jun-13 22:52:10

bant or someone else here- can you point me in the direction of your 13 tips please?
Thanks.

brokenhearted55 Sun 16-Jun-13 22:52:32

Thats what I thought western.

Normally you meet up and if its going well you can stay out. The.pressure of actually saying it is making me.nervous rather than letting it happen naturally.

OhWesternWind Sun 16-Jun-13 22:53:19

Wisey that's really frustrating. Is he definitely too far away?

I'm feeling all inadequate now due to lack of livestock on my profile ...

Bant Sun 16-Jun-13 22:53:53

broken - no, don't say anything. It's a common thing to do when dating - you can both choose to call it quits because there's no chemistry rather than sit through an interminable meal with someone you feel uncomfortable with.

The chances are, you'll meet, it'll be okayish, you'll go on to dinner and eat and chat, but there'll be no spark. Probably 50% of my dates have been like that, maybe more. With some there has been an alchohol-induced spark, which I now try and avoid by avoiding drinking too much during the meal or pre-meal drinks, but if she turns up and I think 'oh, nice' then I'll drink a bit more than if she turns up and I go 'oh, shame'. Attraction is an instant thing for me (but I'm a bloke) - spark is something more and requires two-way interaction. Oomph, as I call it, is both those combined with something extra. Oomph is very rare. Very.

But it happens, and you have to have the first two to get it. Which means time, maybe a bit of alcohol and food.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. And, to be honest, expect something in the middle

brokenhearted55 Sun 16-Jun-13 22:57:40

My last bf.and I had everything.right from the beginning. Attraction spark chemistry oomph....the whole thing. it was incredible. I know how rare it is to find and that's why I can't believe he threw it away.

sad

akaWisey Sun 16-Jun-13 22:57:58

He says it's a shame we live so far apart. North London to Kent. Far away I think if we're both looking for a relationship (eventually) and a half hour coffee date if def out of the question! But there was something really nice about his messages though…

So I refined my search to much nearer home. Most of the time I can't be bothered much but when I am bothered to try I get a bit disheartened.

OhWesternWind Sun 16-Jun-13 22:58:18

I've never had anyone say to me we can have something to eat if we get on though Bant - bit odd! I know that's what happens but it's strange to actually come out and say it so bluntly at the planning stage.

48howdidthathappen Sun 16-Jun-13 22:59:02

OWW I never included my horses on my profile. They are an expensive luxury wink

velvetspoon Sun 16-Jun-13 23:03:45

Juliette glad you're home safely.

Stranger thank you for the handhold about my Dad. I found a photo of me and him today, taken when I was 2. I've been looking for it for ages. It being the 70s, my dad had longish hair, skinny flares and tinted glasses smile I showed the DSs who said 'our granddad was cool wasn't he?' which made me grin. And made up for the fact they saw their own father for precisely 5 minutes today because he was 'busy'. Not to be honest they were too bothered.

<waves> to everyone else. Sorry I have been rather pre-occupied with my own woes to get to grips with everyone's latest stuff, I will try and pick it up and comment properly!

So, I've had a better day. No tears, actually a little bit of feeling empowered (for want of a better word). Did some stuff in the garden, which is getting there, and while I was out there looking at it and the house thought I am really lucky to have the stuff I do, and a job I love. I fully expect this is a bit of a false dawn, and I will be crying over C, the dumping by silence and the general men don't see me as relationship material before the week is out, but for the moment I'm trying not to think about that too much...

Bant Sun 16-Jun-13 23:03:48

I've said 'if things are going well, we can move on somewhere for food' before - but that was with people I'd had a conversation with about maybe there being no spark and stuff.

The date was coffee, maybe drinks but see how we go, not dinner-but-we-may-cut-it-short, if that makes sense

brokenhearted55 Sun 16-Jun-13 23:08:55

Oh Shit I don't wanna meet him now it feels too pressured already sad

Happy Fathers Day Bill and Bant both brilliant Dads. Also to any single Dad's quietly lurking out there.

brokenhearted55 Sun 16-Jun-13 23:19:41

He also said it's in case he's not what I'm looking for... X

Wisey is that Kent as in Sarf East London or happy peasant folk picking apples?

Bant Sun 16-Jun-13 23:22:01

Broken - there is rule 5, if it's not fun, stop. There is also 1,2,3 and 4.

Don't feel like this date will 'fix' you, if you're really feeling broken. You need to be okay with yourself before you can be happy with other people. You need the thick skin to deal with wankers, disappearers, and rejection. You don't owe the man anything at all, and all the emotional investment may screech to a stop when you actually see him.

But, if you're open to taking the risk, you may have a nice evening with a nice bloke, without any pressure. There may be chemistry, there may not. It could be there is chemistry and you're not ready to deal with it yet - which is fine - it's a lesson learned.

The point is, you can only date if you're ready to, not because you think you should be ready to so let's go and do it. And also, conversely, that getting out there will make you more prepared to get out there again. No one can make the choice for you and we'll all support you whatever you choose.

Bant Sun 16-Jun-13 23:26:35

Wisey - I found them - here are Bant's profile rules

Bant Sun 16-Jun-13 23:27:29

(halfway down that page)

Bant can't find them, would you mind cutting and pasting again here please?

Poogate Mon 17-Jun-13 00:20:49

A very delayed 'thank you' to KinNora for replying to my question posted v early this morning; I've been out all day and have only now had a chance to see you reply. You're right, he has his chance and he blew it.

Next!

TheTitleSaysItAllReally Mon 17-Jun-13 06:56:20

More texting all day yesterday. He said he likes spending time with me, and was very nice when I possibly overshared a little info about my DV-packed life with the ex after possibly overreacting to a comment he made... blush

I like him a lot smile

Flipper924 Mon 17-Jun-13 07:50:59

Morning thread!

Thanks, Bant, that's useful feedback. I never know how to describe myself, but I'll have a think over the next few days.

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 08:29:40

1) try and avoid photos taken on a mobile in the loo.
2) don't include photos of your kids, no matter how beautiful they are
3) while its fine to mention your children, don't do it in the first or second paragraph. They're not an afterthought but shouldn't appear to be the most important thing about you. You are the most important thing
4) don't list too many dislikes, it comes across as negative. Likes are fine, it gives people a talking point to contact you with, but don't make them too obscure (e.g. the early works of Dostoevsky) as they may make you seem like you wouldn't bother responding to anyone without a phd in literature
5) don't give too much specific info about where you work
6) don't include photos of you with a mans arm draped around your shoulders, it's off putting
7) no more than one picture of your horse
8) photos of you in front of the pyramids or something aren't very useful if we can't see your face
9) cut out cliches - work hard/play hard, wine/DVD, references to extreme sports- unless you do them all the time and they're hugely important to you. Reading the same thing in everyone's profile just makes the eyes glaze over
10) starting with a joke or funny comment is always good.
11) saying 'been hurt before' or 'looking for a man who won't cheat' will attract people who will cheat and hurt you, and gives the impression of trust issues
12) avoid text speak and too many exclamation marks
13) don't list too many required attributes in a man. Specifying he must have blue eyes, brown hair, work in finance, be 5'10 to 6'2 and must love hang gliding gives a strong impression you're pining for someone specific
14) I can't think of another one, but 13 is unlucky

Snapespeare Mon 17-Jun-13 09:47:26

And for men...(with a few later ones that are genderless)

1) we don't necessarily want to see photographs of your torso or any slightly kinky sexual practices you may engage in. That's nice dear, put it away. Not on your profile and dear god not by personal message. Torsos are fine if you're in Africa building an orphanage.
2) as per bant's #2(apb)
3) apb. Also don't slate the mother of your children in your profile. You look bitter. Don't complain about child support. You look cheap.
4) apb
5) apb
6) photos of you with other women, even if it's a family member accompanied with 'I love my mum!' aren't alluring.
7) please do not post a picture of you having caught a large fish. It's a penis analogy.
8) apb. But pictures of you engaged in humanitarian relief or with baby elephants that you personally rescued are quite alluring.
9) apb. We all love snuggling up with a DVD after some rock climbing.
10) apb
11) see #3.
12) grammar! Use it.
13) don't lie about your age/height/weight/profession. You'll get found out. Photos should be within the last year or so.
14) there's no such thing as luck.
15) when initially contacting someone refrain from 'hi babez u luk sexy!' Show you've read their profile, ask a question (this goes for women as well, although I'm led to believe women initiate first contact less and tend not to go down the 'hey babez' route.
16) if you're not prepared to travel, manage your expectations of a geographical search.

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 09:57:14

Nice one Snape - and to add to mine
15) if you are going to contact a man, put some effort in - a message saying 'hi' - and nothing else, while it'll be jumped on by men who don't generally receive first messages, doesn't give us much to talk about. The same goes as Snapes comment regarding reading the profile etc

akaWisey Mon 17-Jun-13 10:01:12

juliette Kent as in peasants and hops 'n stuff grin but get this - he messaged me and said actually its only 79 miles from me to you.

Am I right in thinking he's thinking it could be a go-er?

akaWisey Mon 17-Jun-13 10:01:52

Thanks bant am reading and sniggering digesting now.

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 10:16:48

snape - is it acceptable for a man to have a naked-torso photo where he's showing the baby fish he just rescued?

OhWesternWind Mon 17-Jun-13 10:31:54

Wisey 79 miles would be too far for me, but I suppose if a lot of it's motorway or fast roads then it's only an hour or so. It's just easier if someone is nearby for so many reasons. It sounds like he thinks it's okay though . . .

Snapespeare Mon 17-Jun-13 10:48:14

bant only if it's a tiddler... shock wink
i wonder if theres a female equivilent of torso- shots? i ceratainly believe in the power of the 'slightly above eye-line' shot to disguise ones jowls, but the by-product of that seems to be acres of clevage. i think the answer might be a tripod (oo-er!) & camera timer. or a polo neck. or creative-cropping...

i think theres a lot to be said for also adding a full-length pic. i know all the tricks, me & if you have teeth, show them (i certainly learned my lesson there...

pornstarmartini Mon 17-Jun-13 11:02:20

Oh dear. It's a dull OD dating day. Not one person that is floating my boat. I am way too fussy. Hope everyone else is having better luck

TortillasAndChocolate Mon 17-Jun-13 11:06:31

I gave up last night - I have the opposite of sweet shop syndrome I think. The more profiles I see, the more bored and disheartened I become!

pornstarmartini Mon 17-Jun-13 11:10:09

I agree Tortillas. A couple that I like the look of but no mention of a date. I've hinted.

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 11:20:21

Oh yes, there is the female equivalent of torso-shots. Lots of cleavage, on display, with the blowing-a-kiss-to-the-camera usually happening at the same time.

Puts me off, personally, but will attract chancers looking to shag and run. Fine, if you're looking for NSA fun, but if not then drop the photo.

Similarly, posing in a basque or something. If you advertise in that way, you're going to get people who are primarily looking for sex.

It's generally better to have two decent photos than two decent and one indecent, depending, of course, on what you're after.

pornstarmartini Mon 17-Jun-13 11:21:11

I think my photos look like I just want casual sex. I have that look about me but far from the truth!

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 11:32:49

martini - no they don't. They're good pictures, as I said. Apart from the full length one in the mirror, where you have what looks like loo-roll on the floor behind you smile

Seriously, they're good pictures. And a good profile. No matter how innocent the photos you'll always get chancers, but they don't give a bad impression of you at all.

pornstarmartini Mon 17-Jun-13 11:39:10

Thanks bant I've deleted the dodgy toilet shot.

TortillasAndChocolate Mon 17-Jun-13 11:53:05

Haha Martini now I want to see your profile - but preferably with the toilet roll shot still there grin

velvetspoon Mon 17-Jun-13 12:18:19

wisey I'm impressed he's considering 79 miles, I am in the London-y bit of Kent and could never even get anyone to cross the Dartford Bridge for me (not a euphemism!) It can be no coincidence the only one I got anywhere with lives within walking distance of my house. Which given the dumping by silence is of course a bit unfortunate...

martini I have long been told I look 'up for it' both in photos and RL. I think that says more about the men concerned than it does about me tbh, and it will be the same in your case. Men who are not misogynistic, sex-obsessed arses will take a less judgmental and more accurate view.

TortillasAndChocolate Mon 17-Jun-13 12:20:12

Ok tonight I'm on a mission to send a few messages. Although generally I don't get replies from the ones I like when I have sent first messages.

It's a tough balance between sending well thought out messages, and not wanting to spend too long constructing them in case they don't reply.

OhWesternWind Mon 17-Jun-13 12:46:01

Exactly Tortillas, I've had a very low success rate with ones I've messaged first. But the ones that did reply included LM and Alpha Scot and I did the "Want to meet" thing with Indie which prompted him to message me, so that's three out of four of the ones I've seen more than once (or am planning to). I wouldn't write too much at all though, just a couple of sentences to see if they bother replying.

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 12:55:53

Velvet - sorry to disagree. A woman gives a different impression depending on how she dresses and poses for a photo. Showing lots of cleavage or posing in underwear, pouting at the camera, gives an impression of being 'up for it' and will attract men who are looking for that.

Some men will just be knobs and see what they want to see, of course, but dressing in a certain way, and more to the point posting photos like that will give a certain impression.

If you see a guy posing topless in a bathroom mirror, you may be put off him. See the same guy smiling in a nice suit, completely different impression. It works for women too.

OhWesternWind Mon 17-Jun-13 13:06:05

I am covered up (not polo neck level but no cleavage) on all my profile photos. No pouting either - one talking, one smiling and one not smiling. Apparently I look "innocent" hahahaha. But I would hate to give the opposite impression. I don't get a lot of messages about sex at all, very very few people starting off with rudery and perviness, no cock shots ever, so it must be working to filter out some of that kind of crap.

Flipper924 Mon 17-Jun-13 13:21:12

I think I'm the same, OWW, but there's a fine line between covered up and mumsy, I've found. Mr 3DD has said that the way to get more attention is to be more sexual in a profile, but I'm quite happy not getting the cock shots (he offered to remedy this; I declined). I think it can be tough to get the right balance.

I would just like to get a message from someone who makes me laugh. Take the mick, have a bit of banter with, that sort of thing. Men that can do that don't seem to be attracted to my profile.

I've tried sending messages, too. I sent two yesterday, and got two very polite replies saying thank you, but they're already chatting to someone. That's a lame excuse, surely? No one would be 'exclusively chatting', would they?

velvetspoon Mon 17-Jun-13 13:27:16

To be honest Bant the sort of man who makes judgments about a woman based on the clothes she wears probably isn't the sort of man I would be interested in.

For the record, I have no photos of myself in underwear. I have lots of photos showing some cleavage, but as I don't own high necked clothes (when you are large busted they produce an unfortunate bolster effect) that's inevitable.

And I have been told I look up for it, or other similar euphemisms, since I was a non make up wearing teen (and had no idea what men were even talking about). So clearly that had nothing to do with how I actually looked, and was simply men's projection/ perception).

But if you, or anyone else want to say I look easy, or whatever, then come right out and say it. But expect me to disagree. And bear in mind that's a short step to saying a woman in a short skirt deserves to be harassed/ attacked hmm

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 13:38:38

Velvet - Everyone makes judgments about people based on the clothes they wear. You do too, surely. If you see a photo of a guy in a nice suit you'll mentally classify him as, probably, successful, probably educated, professional, reasonable income.

If you see the same man in a rubber gimp suit, you'll think 'pervert', or in a homer simpson t-shirt you'll think 'man-child'.

Whether justified or not, people classify other people based, partially, upon what they're wearing.

I don't remember what your photos look like, I don't know what you're wearing in your pictures, I'm not making any judgement about you, I'm just saying that certain types of profile photos give a certain impression. Given my previous posts about horses and the pyramids, I'm just giving advice from a man's point of view.

And please don't start accusing me of even implying women in short skirts deserve to be harassed. That's really not a pleasant thing to accuse me of...

Kirstywirsty Mon 17-Jun-13 13:48:44

One of my pics has a bit of cleavage but I don't get any Pervy messages .. I have had one cock shot in 8 months

OhWesternWind Mon 17-Jun-13 13:54:49

The last message I sent Flipper I got the "I'm already chatting to a nice laydee" message which I thought was a bit odd . . .

Velvet regardless of the clothes debate, that was an awful thing to imply about Bant.

I have quite a big bust and just roll with the bolster look, hadn't really thought about it previously in those terms! I'm not very clothes-conscious so this kind of thing does bypass me a bit. I spend a lot of time on building sites where I would definitely not feel at all comfortable showing cleavage, and that's kind of translated into my non-working wardrobe too. But equally I wasn't very confident sexually for a while (that's all in the past now though I hope) and that could also have had a bearing on the type of clothes I wear.

velvetspoon Mon 17-Jun-13 13:59:30

I didn't accuse you of anything. I simply pointed out that it's a short step from considering someone will only attract men after one thing if they dress in a certain way, or have a particular look, and should therefore expect sexually-orientated approaches, to saying that women are asking to be harrassed etc. I used to get grown men perving round me when I was in my mid teens. That was them projecting their pervy thoughts, I didn't cause or deserve it, just as it still is for sleazy men now.

As for clothes, I don't make judgments other than whether a man's clothes are clean or not. I wouldn't presume anything from seeing a man in a suit - most men wear cheap, ill-fitting off the peg suits that don't flatter them and certainly wouldn't impress me or cause me to assume they were in a professional job - often quite the opposite (none of the execs here wear suits, its all jeans and casual shirts, despite their 6 fig salaries). Clothes are just clothes.

TortillasAndChocolate Mon 17-Jun-13 14:06:38

Well rightly or wrongly, I definitely end up ruling people out based on their photos - I don't think I've ever messaged or replied to anyone with a naked torso profile picture. I could be wrong but I just assume they are probably not my sort of person. Maybe I shouldn't do that anymore.

I haven't looked at any women's profiles, but I can imagine if someone was wearing a bikini and pouting at the camera then men are more likely to assume they're up for some 'fun' than if they're wearing a polo neck. It doesn't make it right, we definitely shouldn't judge on appearances at all. But people do - or a lot of people do.

Scrazy Mon 17-Jun-13 14:14:59

I never had any provocative poses when I had a profile. I think I would look silly trying to do one. Never showed off my cleavage on purpose, if it was on show it was incidental. I only had one cock shot and don't remember anyone being anything other than polite. I don't think I come across as up for it in photo's, at all.

In RL maybe grin which often isn't welcome.

Kirstywirsty Mon 17-Jun-13 14:18:12

Although I have just had a message from 'girthy_gary' .. hmm

smoothieooo Mon 17-Jun-13 14:19:29

Wisey I am in N. London and am seeing a Kent-based man. Easy for us both to get into central London for dates and it takes him an hour to drive to me if there is an opportunity for an overnight stay grin

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 14:22:11

Okay well I will step up and say according to my wildly misogynistic, old-fashioned, caveman like approach - which I'm sure I have repeatedly proved myself to be - if I see a profile photo of a woman with low cut cleavage, and another photo of the same woman without cleavage, then I will view the photos in a different way. They will give me different impressions of the woman.

If you want to think that I'm a sexist bastard, how dare I think differently based upon how a woman dresses, then go ahead. Personally, I think I'm relatively modern and less sexist than many men out there.

But if I'm thinking that, surely other men will too. Other people on this thread and others have said they're put off men by the clothes they wear either in photos or on dates, so it's not just me, and it's not just men.

So. Dress how you want to dress in your profile photos. And maybe it's unfair, maybe it's not right, but low cut tops will, in my opinion, attract men with a certain goal and mindset.

Personally, I choose my profile photos to give a realistic impression of who I am. Me on a beach, me out with friends, me holding a fish I nursed back to life, in front of a pyramid. While riding a horse. But that's just me. I choose to portray a relatively honest impression, showing my good points, and not show a photo which I actually look really good in, because I happen to be wearing an old grungy t-shirt and it makes me look like a slob.

mercury7 Mon 17-Jun-13 14:23:21

perhaps it would be more helpful to say that we tend to classify people according to appearance, since judge implies attaching a moral value to people based on what they are wearing.

Also the meaning given to the way a person chooses to present themselves will depend partly on the norms of the particular site.
For instance, a 'tasteful' underwear shot would look tame on a hook up site but overly provocative on a site where people are mostly looking for longer term relationships.

I've looked at alot of women's profiles, overally I think they are no better or worse than the mens confused

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 14:33:43

mercury - I think that's just different terms. Classification, making a judgement - you're right that judgement implies a moral value, but then I think in some cases it does. You're right that context is king for photos though.

I've looked at a few men's profiles and they're probably on the same level, maybe less so. More empty essays than women's profiles. More pictures of fish.

OhWesternWind Mon 17-Jun-13 14:36:46

Unfortunately though Mercury I think a lot of people do judge rather than classify, depending on what people (particularly but not exclusively women) are wearing. And they judge on a variety of issues - wealth/income, class, personality, sexual morality etc etc. I'm not saying that this is a good thing at all, but people do do it and it's an integral part of the society we live in. And recognising that this is what happens, we can either say pah, I don't care, I'll wear it and damn what other people think, or we can go along with it to some extent and make sure that how we present ourselves with regards to clothes/hairstyle/make-up/jewellry says what we want it to say. Pros and cons to both approaches . . .

velvetspoon Mon 17-Jun-13 14:37:12

I once started a spin off thread to this one. I received some interesting suggestions on my profile. Most said if I wanted to attract a naice man, I should wear less make up and higher necked clothes in my photos.

I tried it. The result was even worse messages than normal. Including a couple which basically said fancy a shag, some cock shots and a married bloke asking me to be his bit on the side.

So I really don't think it DOES matter to certain men what you wear.

And any photos I have on fb, or dating sites, or wherever, are my everyday life. I wear make up all the time, I dress in a certain way, I don't do the outdoors, or hobbies or whatever. That doesn't mean I can only expect to attract the sex-obsessed, nor that I deserve to be harassed, nor that I won't meet a nice man who isn't going to presume or judge based on how I look.

mercury7 Mon 17-Jun-13 14:41:59

Unfortunately though Mercury I think a lot of people do judge rather than classify
yes I know, I was trying to elevate the whole of humanity..ya think I'm bein' too ambitious OWW wink

OhWesternWind Mon 17-Jun-13 14:43:02

You are absolutely right, Velvet, no-one deserves to be harrassed because of what they wear or look like.

Moanranger Mon 17-Jun-13 15:02:40

Although I don't do OD, I always thought the advice was to look friendly and approachable, a bit girl next door, rather than overtly sexy. Nice smile taken at a happy moment, that sort of thing.
I think sight of cleavage triggers the male reptilian brain ( sorry for being somewhat male-generalising here) and all that comes with that. I would worry less about boobies and more about face & expression.

ALittleStranger Mon 17-Jun-13 15:12:50

Am now realising why I've never received a cock shot or smutty message. My cleavage couldn't be more modest if it tried.

MsCellophane Mon 17-Jun-13 17:22:56

Sorry but this talk of cleavage making a man think 'we are up for it' is bollocks. Is this the 1950's? Clothing does not make you more or less likely to have sex

My profile pics show no cleavage, they are cropped to remove it, always have been. I have had many cock shots and smut written to me - this weekend I had someone who I messaged and then was told he had started seeing someone ask for my email - yup - picture of his cock.

Even if my boobs were being shown off in a low cut top - and the cropped pics do show cleavage as I have biggish boobs and the uncropped pics are on FB - what gives any man the right to flash me???

Having clothing that is form fitting or cut a little lower (or just sits lower cos my boobs are bigger) Why on earth does that mean I am fair game??

And the biggest question - why is a woman that enjoys sex a bad thing and an insult and someone to be treated badly????

I can't believe some of the stuff I have read. A certain look means we are up for it (not a bad thing as sex is fun), deserve to have cocks flashed at us and not worth dating - REALLY???

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 17:24:40

Might be terribly modern of me, but i dont believe that cleavage instantly means you are up for it, or giving the impression that you are.

Im reminded of the ' sult walk' thats been going on the last few years, campaigning for the right for women to be able to wear what they want without being SEXUALLY judged.

Judge on other facts, but not sexually. men are not judged sexually, in fact noone on here as mentioned that, they have mentioned money, and education and jobs.. not how he might be sexually. Inequality still exists and todays posts have been the proof of that.

Women have boobs. We also have hips and bums. It should not be up to the women to have to hide then away for fear some man cannot control himself... nor think shes up for it just for owning a pair of 36D's . If we keep having to cover up because ' men' will judge us, we will end up in burqua's. Also, at odds with this message of being ' up for it' are the constant sexualised images on tv/ film/ media.... something quite at odds by women trying to date being told to cover up, while rhianna is rubbing her crotch in front of 1000's at twickenham.....

I would not condone underwear pictures n dating sites, besides, not many people look all that great in their pants hmm but to say a woman has to keep covered right up, or look like the girl next door, is just plain daft.

People have different styles, different body shapes and find different things attractive. You dont have to try and look one way in the vain hope of detering sleeze bags. Wear what you want, be you and happy with in yourself. And hit the delete, block button or just tell someone to piss off if the site of decolletage turns them into a mannerless monkey.

ALittleStranger Mon 17-Jun-13 18:02:08

I absolutely agree that nothing justifies unwanted smut.

But OD is all about selling yourself and nothing is accidental. Men post pictures of themselves with other people's kids to cynically appeal to 30 something women keen to settle down. People post pics of them with their mates to show they are normal and have some. If you were ODing just for sex your profile would presumably reflect that. So I don't see why it's controversial to say that some looks or phrases are designed to signal certain intents. I get for the large boobed among you cleavage is inevitable, but surely cleavage, plus pout, plus wink etc is chosen for a reason? Nothing deliberate is accidental.

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 18:09:46

Yes, some people might chose that look for a reason.

As Bant has said earlier though, he ( and some men) could look at the same woman, and if in one picture she is showing some cleavage he will make judgement against her.

thats a little bit different than boobs plus pout plus wink, isn't it.

Lots of people are looking for relationships and also wear tops that don't cover everything up, wearing high neck tops isn't a pre requisite to having a relationship. else,I didn't think it was.

SmallChanges Mon 17-Jun-13 18:19:39

I hesitated posting my views regarding women clothing choices and value judgements that people make/are making.sad

Fortunately MsC has said it for me grin

<applauds> Johhny.

SmallChanges Mon 17-Jun-13 18:20:39

This Wear what you want, be you and happy with in yourself

mercury7 Mon 17-Jun-13 18:22:34

Stranger, I agree, although the message that a person intends to send via the way they present themselves will be interpreted differently by different people.
We all have our own unique blend of biases and preconceptions

MsCellophane Mon 17-Jun-13 18:36:38

I have boobs but no pout or wink - I still get smut

Velvet has boobs and is glam, glam, glam - she still gets smut

My dd is on POF - she is a early twenties and her pics reflect the fact she is a jeans and hoodie woman - and a couple of face painted ones from kids parties - she gets smut

The point is - no woman should be getting smut or treated badly - even if she is wearing the low cut top and winking - that isn't saying ' hey arseholes, use me and abuse me' 'shag me and run' 'treat me with no respect' - nothing justifies it -NOTHING

If a woman says I am here for fun, I want a shag with many, many men over the month - she still doesn't deserve to be treated badly or without respect - are we really having to say this in 2013?

Like it or not, women are judged sexually in society. They are also judged on what they wear, too little and they are sluts, too much they are frumpy. Work wear is a minefield of getting it just right to avoid inappropriate comments and not being taken seriously or appearing 'frumpy/unattractive' and not taken seriously. It's not right but that's how it works. So on a dating profile, the photos put up give the only visual image of how you are and viewers will form an impression.

Personally, any of the following pics will get a man dismissed on a profile. Holding a fish = stupid
sitting on a 'fanny wagon'* = sexist arse who thinks he is paying for it
torso shots unless they are on a beach or something = not Brad Pitt drunken photos with his mates = not my idea of a night out
comedy hat = stupid sense of humour

I could be wrong, but it's my reaction. On fb, it wouldn't make the same impression as most people are just throwing stuff up there, not advertising themselves by selecting photos which they think represent them.

I wouldn't wear a low cut top to work as I would want to be taken seriously and have the meeting listen to what I'm saying rather than stare at my cleavage. So with OD, if I put up a range of pictures of me doing the pout, wearing my bra and a thong** in the bathroom mirror (shudder), taken so high you could see the unflushed turn down the toilet pan I would expect a higher than average number of men assuming that I was up for 'fun' and possibly a photography lesson.

I'm entirely with Bant on this one. I also think it's offensive to imply what he said means he thinks along the lines that women deserve to be harassed or assaulted because of what they wear.

*yes, that phrase was used in a seminar by the lecturer, I was the only woman on the course
** I don't do thongs.

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 18:44:18

there is however a world of difference between posing in a low cut top and a thong in your bathroom and just wearing a normal top and being a woman.

I had lunch with my mother today, she is 56. She wore linen trousers, a vest top thingy from bloody sainsburys and a waterfall cardigan ( she cannot help it, its her age smile ) you could see her clevage. it was scoop neck. She wore a nice necklace.

By some of the posts on here today, you are saying this would indicate she was up for it, and people would and could make fair judgements againist her

Which is the biggest pile of wank i ever did hear.

Winefiend Mon 17-Jun-13 18:45:28

I don't think Bant was being sexist at all. I think it's just still such an emotive and contentious subject, even in this day and age.

The thing is, we all judge. At the end of the day, if a man or a woman judges you for what you're wearing/tits/torso, then fuck em. Like Velvet said, probably not the kind of person you're after.

The problem with OD is that realistically, you are forced to make a positive or negative judgement on someone based on either a few photos, a bit of text or a combo of both. As mentioned a thread or so ago, OD (certainly for me) seems to make some of us judge on really small detail as it is so completely disposable. So easy to just ignore or click 'no, no, no' based on the smallest of things.

I know for certain I have ignored blokes with torso shots and poor grammar. At first it didn't sit well with me feeling so judgey, then just became the norm (for me). I also certainly judge men on clothing as much as musical taste/books as for me personally I feel it says something about them and sometimes you do just want to quickly filter through folk to find ones you like best. So perhaps for some of our 'how r u babez megalolz' crew it's similar - quick fire look through photos, tits, yeah ok. That is wrong in my opinion, but entirely based on their own perception of women (which Iis an entirely different debate) not the ones in the images.

Rambly, but basically, I think everyone, men or women, shouldn't feel obliged to alter the way they wish to present themselves in order to attract a certain kind of person. Whether certain kinds of photos actually do attract certain types is open to debate (as demonstrated by some examples above).

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 18:47:10

and if we agree thats its not right, and its wrong, why are people peddaling the same shit to people?

its all a bit ' women, know your place'

MsCellophane Mon 17-Jun-13 18:54:23

Velvet said -I have long been told I look 'up for it' both in photos and RL. I think that says more about the men concerned than it does about me tbh, and it will be the same in your case. Men who are not misogynistic, sex-obsessed arses will take a less judgmental and more accurate view.

Bant said: Velvet - sorry to disagree. A woman gives a different impression depending on how she dresses and poses for a photo. Showing lots of cleavage or posing in underwear, pouting at the camera, gives an impression of being 'up for it' and will attract men who are looking for that.

----
Velvet hasn't got those pics - she is a sexy woman. This is where we are coming from. Those of us who receive the cock shots don't have those pictures either. If we are large of nork, we can't hide that fact and why the hell should we. Any man that thinks a woman is their to be abused because she has shown cleavage, pouted, blowing kisses or even being in their underwhere - is just wrong

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 18:58:04

ah, but msC,
where would we be without categories to put women into

' naice girls, who dont do sex' and ' sluts who are there for fucking and not much else, they deserve what they get'

fortunately it does say more about the person holding these views than it does the person they hold them about.

MsCellophane Mon 17-Jun-13 18:59:14

"wear"

Scrazy Mon 17-Jun-13 19:03:28

Yes, I agree it's wrong on all counts, but if it kept happening, I would tone the poses down a little, depending on what I was looking for, of course.

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 19:07:33

but if there are no poses.

what if its just head and shoulders and that includes a tiny bit of boob? because sure as hell i cant hide mine and basically ANY picture of me, unless its just face and neck, includes giant boobs.

a scoop neck t shirt makes me look like im busting out over the top of it, i cannot help it, its just how my boobs are. It does not mean im up for it, or deserve thinking less of because of it.

Sigh. No one has said anyone who wears a low cut top is up for it.

Scrazy Mon 17-Jun-13 19:13:02

I think it was referring to pout, wink and cleavage poses, rather than just a normal shot in a normal top, which of course, there is nothing wrong with.

MsCellophane Mon 17-Jun-13 19:16:02

My pics on pof are cropped to face and neck - I still get the same as Velvet does. I am not pouting, nor blowing a kiss and still get it

BUT even if you could see my boobs and cleavage and I was pouting and kissing - if my profile says I am looking for a relationship or long term - I am not up for 'it'

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 19:16:21

Juliette,

from bant :
Velvet - sorry to disagree. A woman gives a different impression depending on how she dresses and poses for a photo. Showing lots of cleavage or posing in underwear, pouting at the camera, gives an impression of being 'up for it' and will attract men who are looking for that.

also from bant:
if I see a profile photo of a woman with low cut cleavage, and another photo of the same woman without cleavage, then I will view the photos in a different way. They will give me different impressions of the woman.

oh, thought there were more than that.

MsCellophane Mon 17-Jun-13 19:17:53

""Showing lots of cleavage or posing in underwear, pouting at the camera, gives an impression of being 'up for it' and will attract men who are looking for that.""

Some of us have lots of cleavage - we can't hide it

TortillasAndChocolate Mon 17-Jun-13 19:18:37

Yes agreed, I can't speak for other people but I don't think anyone was saying if you have a normal photo of yourself and there is a bit cleavage in view that men will think you're up for it.

The weird thing is that reading over the posts we're all debating but mostly seem to agree on the main points - people judge on appearance. They shouldn't. But they do. Oh and that there are different cleavage categories grin . I don't have these issues unless I buy a very helpful bra grin

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 19:19:41

perhaps its just in your genes msC, to be a bit of a slut hmm

smile

TortillasAndChocolate Mon 17-Jun-13 19:19:47

Oops slow to post - I was agreeing with Juliette and Scrazy...

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 19:20:02

because anyone with boobs must be.

hmm

TortillasAndChocolate Mon 17-Jun-13 19:21:19

Oh and I don't have a cleavage and I can't pout without looking ridiculous and I still get those sort of messages sometimes. Some men will just try with anyone. Probably a numbers game - if you proposition enough women, one will say yes in the end...

MsCellophane Mon 17-Jun-13 19:23:43

It must be, my chesticles are code for take me now, send me pics of your dick and use crude language smile

I am actually on the easy side but I take issue that I get unwarranted and unwanted attention I am asking for it

bollocks to that, when I actually ask for it - give it, up until that point - make no assumptions

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 19:28:57

Im booby. Ive run massive conferences, where people have flown in from around the world. My boobs were, as ever, busting out. I cant wear a shirt as i look all pamela anderson and its not pretty, so i just wore a normal top. still, lots of my boobs were there.
Not one person didnt take me seriously, not one person made patronizing comments and certainly not one person made any sexist remarks. Because they werent dickheads.

if somone had made any comments i expect the others in the room would have said something and marked them down as being some kind of sexist arse. Im a woman, i have boobs by my very nature. It does not mark me as being easy because of it.

Winefiend Mon 17-Jun-13 19:30:24

What Juliette said. Ditto for the work gear. I know I certainly dressed differently when I worked in prison to how I do now working mainly with single mums. It's all down to the audience. If I were to post a photo with a bit of cleavage and got pervy responses, it is a reflection on them, not me.

I think Bant's point was simply that we all judge based on photos. I am guilty as charged on that one. Again, men are entitled to have their torsos out or put up shameless 'selfies' taken in the bathroom. Some women may like that and may, by the same token, also assume such men are 'up for it'. I think perhaps there is a difference between the obvious 'lots of cleavage'/underwear shots and simply a low cut top.

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 19:32:00

slutmeansspeakup.org.uk/

have a look at the slutwalk as well people. Its a good message, and while its on the fringe of the ' boobs equals up for it' it is as velv says, only a step away.

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 19:36:23

apt

"I want to march because I want to be able to walk home at night without being afraid of rape. I want to march because I am fed up of being judged based on how I dress. I want to march because I have had three men force themselves upon me in some way or other and each time I left blaming myself. I want to march because I cannot leave the house without being harassed by several men. I want to march because I feel the need to protest to these strangers that I am a lesbian in the hope they will leave me alone (even though I am actually bisexual, I am just scared of them). I want to march because I have been followed down the street by the same men who insist I “just need a good cock”. I want to march because my parents tell me that “if [I] dress like a slut, then [I am] asking for it”. I want to march because I believe that I am the only one with the rights to my body. I want to march because I have many male friends who restore my faith in the male gender, but do not understand that I have to think about rape on a daily basis. I want to march against every man who thinks that grabbing girls on the street outside clubs is in any way acceptable. I want to march for the male victims who suffer in silence. I want to march for every single time I have been terrified of rape. I want to march because I am glad I have not had a worse experience than my current ones. I want to march in case one day I do."

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 19:38:03

wine, there is no difference for me between 'lots of clevage' and a lot cut top. its one and the same.

OhWesternWind Mon 17-Jun-13 19:38:54

Hello again Watch

Winefiend Mon 17-Jun-13 19:44:48

Yep. What I thought.

There is quite a difference (in my opinion) between lying on a bed in your underwear in and a lovely smiley pic of a woman in a top which is low cut.

Likewise, for men, a vast difference (for me) between a full length oiled up (yes I have seen many of these) pic in pants/on bed and a lovely holiday pic having a beer in a pair of shorts.

48howdidthathappen Mon 17-Jun-13 19:46:21

I don't think Bant meant anything bad confused Honestly no wonder so many men I know would be afraid to approach/help a lost child. Very sad.

MsCellophane Mon 17-Jun-13 19:49:43

I have never looked at a pic of a man and thought he's up for it - as like most men, he probably is

And most women are on a dating site to meet a partner - one nighter or marriage, we want to have sex with the person we meet eventually, so technically anyone on a dating site is up for it. What we aren't on there for is to be abused no matter what the pic is showing. There is no such thing as a type of woman - some women are free with intercourse and some not so much - one isn't good and the other isn't bad

I personally like a torso pic as I like my men to be muscular, lack of shirt is not saying to me 'I like to fuck and run'

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 19:55:51

Most people on dating sites are there to meet a partner, so yes, one would hope that would include sex, as its a natural part of that.

I stand by what i said earlier, wear what you like, be you and be happy in yourself. If someones going place judgements on you for showing a cm or two much boob, it really does say more about them than it does you.

mercury7 Mon 17-Jun-13 19:57:26

I dont mind a torso pic if he's got a good physique...really I just think people are less polite on dating sites than in RL because of anonymity/lack of consequences, thats got to apply to women too (none of us of course grin blush )

MsCellophane Mon 17-Jun-13 20:02:36

I will continue to challenge these sexist attitudes - from men and women

I don't want my girls to grow up thinking this is the norm and I certainly will fight to death to have my son think that way.

Winefiend Mon 17-Jun-13 20:05:57

But MsC "as like most men" is a wee bit sexist....

Again, we all cast different judgements - the torso pics being a case in point.

OhWesternWind Mon 17-Jun-13 20:06:21

I have never looked at a pic of a man and thought he's up for it - as like most men, he probably is

And that's not sexist????? Just imagine that statement the other way round and it's exactly the attitude so many people are (rightly) complaining about.

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 20:06:58

like

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 20:08:55

ack no, if people were saying all women were up for it, it would be grand.

instead its been said women with lots of cleavage OR pouting and posing and winking, will only attract men looking for sex.

and that assumptions would be made about the woman regarding that.

MsCellophane Mon 17-Jun-13 20:09:10

If you then read on, I said the end goal for all on dating sites is relationship that includes sex - so, yes he prob is up for it. I would say very few men on dating sites aren't looking for sex

That's not being sexist - end goal for all on dating sites is sex, some that night, some in a year or after marriage - adult relationships include sex

KinNora Mon 17-Jun-13 20:15:21

Again ? Bloody hell.

akaWisey Mon 17-Jun-13 20:16:33

well I messaged back it's only 78.5 miles if he were to change the venue he mentioned.

he then messaged a somewhat cryptic response about it looking better so soon. hmm and I commented on that but no more.

so i think i'll wait and see if he makes a 'meet half way' suggestion. 79 miles is a bloody long way though, I agree.

OhWesternWind Mon 17-Jun-13 20:18:34

It's like a Proclaimers song Wisey grin

It's tedious, isn't it, Nora? What news from the world of Showbiz?

akaWisey Mon 17-Jun-13 20:18:34

There's a part of me that likes the idea of dating someone who lives in a completely different area. Having had a recent, disastrous and very short lived dating thing with someone who lives in my town - at least there's no risk of embarrassing moments in the local co-op!!!!

KinNora Mon 17-Jun-13 20:19:15

Oh, and as a woman with an impressive embonpoint, I would like to add that I'm thoroughly unoffended/unrepressed by anything Bant's said.

MsC I will continue to challenge these sexist attitudes
and
I have never looked at a pic of a man and thought he's up for it - as like most men, he probably is

Irony, much? I am disengaging now, again it's pointless.

brokenhearted55 Mon 17-Jun-13 20:20:55

I've never had a cock shot. Feeling left out smile

KinNora Mon 17-Jun-13 20:22:18

Ahhhh, OWW sad news from Showbiz Land, I suspect it may be over. Not heard from him since Saturday, he normally texts smut several times a day. It's a bit of a shame but I'm not weeping into my Cup-a-soup.

Did you email Alpha ?

KinNora Mon 17-Jun-13 20:23:15

Hello Juliette love smile

OhWesternWind Mon 17-Jun-13 20:24:50

I'm disengaging too ... Hope we can get the normal lovely supportive thread back on track.

From what I've heard, Broken, you're not missing much.

brokenhearted55 Mon 17-Jun-13 20:26:10

I'm only teasing Western.

Oh fuck I am getting mega excited about my date. Tell me to chill......

Wisey he is keen and if he wants to travel to see the Wonder of Wisey that is entirely at his pleasure grin

MirandaWest Mon 17-Jun-13 20:27:29

Yes OWW you must email Alpha smile

I have small breasts. Although have been told they are perfectly formed so they are all right smile Does mean that I can't sadly have cleavage photos however hard I try.

I also took what Bant said in the spirit in which I thought it was meant.

Right must mark more sodding exam papers. Am bored already and haven't even done 10% of them yet....

OhWesternWind Mon 17-Jun-13 20:28:55

Oh no Nora, hope he will make a resurgence soon. I have a bit of a soft spot for ole Showbiz.

I did text Alpha. He's texted me three or four times today in between his onerous duties being important in Paris hmm. Looking forward to seeing him but we've not got anything definite arranged.

velvetspoon Mon 17-Jun-13 20:29:13

What spirit was it meant did you think Miranda?

Because I took it, expressly or impliedly as a dig at me.

I'm interested there may be other inferences which might have passed me by.

OhWesternWind Mon 17-Jun-13 20:30:36

Duh, emailed not texted.

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 20:30:51

I have a date with a man from RL. maybe this weekend, most likely next, depending on my work. I do have to admit to being very excited, hes 3 years older, own house, good job, clever and funny and a terrible flirt. hes fit as he did the 3 peaks challenge, but is also nice, and grounded and likes talking about current affairs and things. and hes 6ft 2.
;)

OhWesternWind Mon 17-Jun-13 20:35:25

Small but perfectly formed is good Miranda - is that a quote from Mr Nice?

MsCellophane Mon 17-Jun-13 20:36:54

I also took it as a dig against Velvet and I will not stand by why someone does that

------------

6'2??? that's my kind of man

I'm talking to a writer, 50 - quite plain but I'm giving it a go. Intelligence is a turn on

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 20:40:09

big and bouncy and lots of fun is also good last i heard smile

6ft 2.
and has been lovely. nice mixture of flirting and conversation, keeps calling me tinkerbell. which is quite nice. i might even consider shagging him on the first date!

intelligence is lovely, i can be very attracted to a clever man

velvetspoon Mon 17-Jun-13 20:41:40

What this comes down to is there appears to be an attitude (not just here, in society as a whole) that if you have some cleavage (this now seems to be being expressed as LOADS of cleavage, but wasn't earlier), and pout, and wear underwear, you can expect men to proposition you, send you filth, and cock shots and whatever.

And that really it's all you deserve.

That is wrong. I'm sorry but it is.

I don't do any of that stuff. I can't manage to pout and I've never learned to wink. But actually even if I did, that gives no man (or woman) the right to think less of me, or harass me.

And sending cock shots etc especially as a first message actually IS a form of harassment. It's online flashing essentially. Why should any woman have to put up with that however she presents herself?

I fully expect to be told I am reading too much into this, seeing things that aren't there. but I feel really strongly about this issue. With my history it is hard not to.

Winefiend Mon 17-Jun-13 20:43:16

Wisey completely with you on that one. I quite like the idea of having somewhere else to visit at weekends/days off that is not a massive distance away but just far enough that it feels like a wee break grin

Djangounhinged Mon 17-Jun-13 20:43:20

Did I miss something about the Proclaimers?! shock

Tortilla somewhere waaaaay up the thread you said you were having an evening of sending messages... How's it going so far? My profile is hidden so I have to message first, I'd say about 80% message back, but probably 50% of those conversations fizzle to nothing within a couple of exchanges...

I've never had a cock pic on OD either! Although, as I said before, I'm finding most men only want to chat anyway, despite the word DATING appearing when you log in to POF confused. So I suppose it hasn't really occurred to them. Which is good!

Now chatting with a couple of nice guys - have had to cast my net a bit wider to the next biggish city (60 miles) away but one guy says he is really keen to meet up... Not holding my breath!

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 20:44:08

its almost like saying ' naice girls dont have big boobs'

i agree with everything you say. and people making excuses for this kind of attitude are just as bad as those spouting them.

I damn well hope my daughter grows up in a world where she isnt judged by the size of her boobs.

OhWesternWind Mon 17-Jun-13 20:48:36

Are you a fan Django? You have a good success rate if 80% are messaging back - what sort of thing do you say in your first message? Fizzle rate sounds much like mine.

Fuck me, there's some paranoid and defensive people on this thread hmm Don't know why the same old faces have to keep popping up to criticise and derail the thread. This is supposed to be a lighthearted support thread, is it not? Have fun here, or don't post. It's not rocket science confused

I had a cock shot presented to me ON MY DATE'S PHONE when I came back from the loo once. 'What do you think of that?' was the romantic, seductive words that came from his lips, as I recall grin

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 20:52:36

i didnt realise the thread was being derailed, we are taking about judgments and dating... which is directly dating related........

TortillasAndChocolate Mon 17-Jun-13 20:53:29

Hi Django - I've literally just sat down to start my messaging. I'll let you know how it goes. I can't imagine having an 80 percent reply rate - that's impressive!

I do find it's mostly single dads that message me which makes me think me having a child puts some men without children off - not that I'm suggesting they would all message me otherwise obviously. grin

Winefiend Mon 17-Jun-13 20:54:35

Being a Scot living in England, the Proclaimers are the bane of my existence sad

80% success rate in mesaaging is extremely good! I haven't been on POF at all lately. Except the other night when I was hammered, spotted a gorgeous specimen whose profile stated he wanted women to message him with 'the worst profanity you can think of so that I know you have read my profile' (didn't really see him as marriage material, no).

So of course I messaged 'hello, you cunt' smile

I was drunk and my friend put me up to it. Strangely I have not received a response. Pfffffft.

grin

OhWesternWind Mon 17-Jun-13 20:55:02

Bloody hell Stumped! What did you say to that then? And I can't help wondering - was it his ??

TortillasAndChocolate Mon 17-Jun-13 20:56:52

Stumped yuck!

winefiend that made me laugh. What a shame it didnt work out - it would have made a lovely story to tell people about how you first got together

Winefiend Mon 17-Jun-13 20:58:36

Tortillas I know, it would have been BEAUTIFUL flowers

winefiend grin grin That is awesome! If he doesn't think that's funny, bollocks to him smile

OWW I can't honestly remember. I nade my excuses and left, I can remember that much! Dreadful man. We'd got on so well by text and email up until that point too.... I think it probably was his. It was huge wink

48howdidthathappen Mon 17-Jun-13 21:01:10

Can someone give me directions to Utopia? Actually as Im imperfect I wouldn't fit in.

smoothieooo Mon 17-Jun-13 21:03:31

I wonder if a big, fat, wet fish (tuna? porpoise?) could be deployed? Had my first weekend away (in the Cotswolds) with Mr Sarf London Geezer (*SLG*) and it was... fantastic. Up until a couple of weeks ago I could take it or leave it which I was more than happy with and today I feel tearful and vulnerable. I'm in some kind of 'fight or flight' mode. Fucking ridiculous. Thank you v. much STB-exH hmm

Winefiend Mon 17-Jun-13 21:04:39

Stumped I know, boring bastard grin Probably for the best as I am supposed to be on a self imposed OD break except when hammered it seems

Winefiend Mon 17-Jun-13 21:06:01

smoothie has he given you any reason to feel like that? sad

If someone had sent me that, I would have pissed myself laughing and messaged them back immediately, if it's any consolation. Unfortunately, it seems that he really IS a cunt sad grin

Winefiend Mon 17-Jun-13 21:09:55

Stumped to be fair, he is probably not someone I'd get on with (got my judgey pants on again) so it is no great loss. I just saw the pic, clicked around a bit, read the profile and found it amusing grin

Winefiend Mon 17-Jun-13 21:11:25

Sadly, for me, there is noone who even finds me half as amusing as I do myself grin Lord help my lodger-to-be when I find a suitable victim candidate.

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 21:13:32

Right, just to rebut a couple of points.
Velvet, I've said nothing that I intended to offend you. Sorry if you took offence for some reason, I hadn't intended any and apart from disagreeing with you, really don't see how what I said was anything to do with you specifically.

I said wearing certain clothes and posting photos e.g showing lots of cleavage will be taken by some men as indicating a woman is 'up for it' which as I pointed out is stupid, but true. Some men will take it as that. Other men will be offensive no matter what.

The slutwalk, as I understand it, is to protest to show that women should be able to wear whatever they want and go unmolested. I wholeheartedly agree. I have daughters and want them to be safe and able to make whatever choices they want. That being said, I would like there to be no crime, dangerous drivers or disease and will still raise them to be aware of those things and take appropriate measures to keep themselves safe.

Wishing the world was a nicer place does not mean one should forget how shit it can be and act accordingly. And blaming me for other people's behaviour just gives the impression that you're paranoid and spoiling for a fight. And for a 'new' poster to the thread, that seems like a strange way to join it. If it is who I think it is (and presumably you'll see I blocked your PMs because of your stunning lack of self awareness and childish need to name-call) then just grow up and put your name back to normal so I can ignore you as usual.

The fact that I make judgements on people's motives, background, education etc based upon the photos they choose to advertise themselves with is my choice. I'm honest about it. I daresay if I'd said I avoid women with too many horse pictures then someone would take offence at that too. As, in fact, they have previously.

The fact that I made implicit judgements based upon someone's choice of photos, and from that I drew the implication that other people will too, well, statistically I'm a fairly small group but I'm the only guy that's posting so draw whatever conclusions you will.

At no point have I said, or implied, that women deserve to be harrassed or attacked based upon their clothing. I find those accusations annoying and groundless. If people wish to view me as the epitome of sexist bollocks that you all deal with on a daily basis then you're really stretching a point. I've expressed a male opinion in the assumption that some people may find it valuable. I don't expect to be harangued for every ill ever done to you by my gender.

That is all

Kirstywirsty Mon 17-Jun-13 21:16:57

Looking for a bit of advice .. The guy I was going to meet on Wednesday but I binned for being snippy ( and then he sent some insults and a photo of a bottle of lube) has texted me to say '6pm on Wednesday at the xx pub ok?' .. I should just continue to ignore shouldn't I?? Although I am tempted to reply 'no you were binned'

The lovely MrNYC has vanished!! Last heard from yesterday morning .. I sent a reply and haven't heard a cheep since .. Ah well .. Back to the drawing board sad

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 21:19:09

kirsty - up to you really. id assume he was after something casual. if thats ok with you, go for it, or if not, then dont. its really just what you want.

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 21:20:26

Kirsty, I'd reply with 'can we make it 6:15?' Then not show and block him

Winefiend Mon 17-Jun-13 21:20:28

Awhh Kirsty, can you not just meet him so we cam refer to him as Mr Lube?

That is pish re: MrNYC. I hate it when they disappear. Had a really nice one do the same before I stopped using POF for a wee bit. Unexplainable and.....meh sad

smoothieooo Mon 17-Jun-13 21:20:35

Wine - no reason whatsoever!! We've been texting this evening and I'm struggling to keep it lighthearted and normal. I'm not saying a big, fat declaration of love is in the offing but I do really like him and a brilliant weekend away is so different from a regular Saturday night date or sleepover. I will crash carp myself - trademark KinNora I believe - and hopefully get a bloody grip by tomorrow.

Kirsty yes ignore, ignore! He is attention seeking, I'd be tempted to send back a pic of a bottle of lube and the biggest anal dildo he's ever seen. But I wouldn't, because he would still take that as some sort of invitation.

OhWesternWind Mon 17-Jun-13 21:23:26

Smoothie sounds blissful with SLG. Is your ex mucking about at the moment?

Kirsty hope NYC comes back. Could you just ask Lube why the lubepic?

Winefiend Mon 17-Jun-13 21:24:22

smoothie aww no. Nora will be along with her carp soon I'm sure. I have 2 tins of tuna in the meantime?

Relaaaaax. Like you said, ex issues most probably. Keep reminding yourself he is lovely, he thinks you are lovely and all is.....lovely and enjoy flowers

Kirstywirsty Mon 17-Jun-13 21:26:42

Me too OWW he seemed lovely .. MrLube ( for you wine) is a wackjob .. I got wary vibes from him .. Not going to make any contact

juliette haha .. But no I think you are right smile

BloomingRose Mon 17-Jun-13 21:33:37

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Djangounhinged Mon 17-Jun-13 21:40:02

Kirsty I'd ignore - he shouldn't have to be reminded that he was binned, you were quite clear first time round. Resist!

I am a little bit of a Proclaimers fan, I'd love to say that it's in an ironic way, but it isn't blush. In fact I think I was singing one of their songs rather loudly on Saturday eve.... I was vay, vay drunk....

80% return does sound good, but I think I am developing some very fixed views about the dating pool in my quaint little corner of the world most of them just reply out of gratitude that someone has shown an interest in them politeness, and usually just to say something like "you look nice but you're too far away"... As for the 50% drop out rate, well I can only presume my banter is shite!!

Smoothie I suspect that the flight or fight thing is totally natural at the stage you're now at - you weren't that bothered, and now you are quite bothered, and that requires a bit of a mindset shift! You could be on the cusp of something quite big, and of course you're going to be asking yourself if you're ready / if you're reading the situation right / if you really, really want it to happen. Exciting times! Keep us posted! smile

Djangounhinged Mon 17-Jun-13 21:44:52

Wine your response to the gorgeous POFer was brilliant - what a shame he wasn't smart enough to reply to you!

Proper I bet you couldn't get away from that guy quickly enough hmm - what did he expect your response to be? "That's nice, dear"??

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 21:45:27

rose, im dumbfounded at your post.

its more sexist than some of the other stuff thats been posted today.

seriously people.... its 2013.

im just, yeah, speachless.

MsCellophane Mon 17-Jun-13 21:46:28

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

velvetspoon Mon 17-Jun-13 21:49:44

Bant this all started because I posted a response to Martini (who was saying men seem to have the wrong impression of her) saying that I had too suffered from this for years both in photos and RL, men assuming I was 'up for it' etc

You then chose to respond to the effect that showing lots of cleavage or posing in underwear, pouting at the camera (NONE of which I had said I did - and I was talking about myself specifically in my post, not just general 'men are crap for sending women rude messages' comment) gives an impression of being 'up for it' (the specific words I had used, and I really don't think it's any coincidence you used those same words) and will attract men who are looking for that.

And then later that you yourself would make those sort of assumptions if you saw a woman with cleavage, but you wouldn't about one without. Not pouting, or posing provocatively, or in underwear, just with some cleavage.

I'm sorry but I can't agree that's right. Nor is it the way I am raising my sons to behave. I don't expect you to change your view, which is obviously well-entrenched, but I can't agree with it. And it's not the way all men think - I know quite a few who wouldn't make any assumptions as to a woman's sexual availability from her clothing. Or the fact she wore makeup.

I do feel women should be free to dress and present themselves as they wish, without assumption being made. After all, men can. Obviously not everyone agrees with me. So be it.

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 21:50:25

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Djangounhinged Mon 17-Jun-13 21:51:32

Oh, someone (OWW?) asked what I put in my first message to get my 80% reply rate..... Very little! Usually one question, asking them about something they've written in their profile, and that's it. Nothing else! smile

Winefiend Mon 17-Jun-13 21:57:02

django you mean you don't refer to them as cunts? Dumbfounded confused

grin

You are a brave woman, I very rarely message first and when I do, well, see above.......

akaWisey Mon 17-Jun-13 21:57:47

Blimey I think I may have a result.

He wants to come to my area when he's finished a job he's working on. I've said I'd be happy to show him around.

Playin' it cooooool. As someone said upthread, it's not real til it actually happens.

BloomingRose Mon 17-Jun-13 21:59:43

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OhWesternWind Mon 17-Jun-13 22:01:09

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

BloomingRose Mon 17-Jun-13 22:02:32

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StupidMistakes Mon 17-Jun-13 22:03:54

Hello, some of you will remember me. It's MLM. Unfortunately I haven't been on here for a long long time. I have had a lot going on. Still not dating (though I know someone proper likes me), mainly because emotionally I am not in a place to date. I have been fortunate to have two very close people around me, now male one female. I am very lucky for them to have stood by me. Unfortunately just as i thought I was getting on the right track my mum fell ill with liver cancers and just 3 and a half weeks after being diagnosed she lost her fight and passed away. That was a month to the day last Saturday and she was cremated last Monday afternoon. I miss her like crazy.

Hope other people are finding love.

ABSOLUTELY everything that OWW said.

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 22:04:52

Apparently it is ike, which is a huge shame, because she said something offensive about watch. Oh the irony.

Ike if you can read this, we do miss you.

Winefiend Mon 17-Jun-13 22:04:58

Go Wisey! grin

All this chat of dating success is almost making me want to head back to POF but....nah can't bring myself to.

Fuck knows what is going on here, I pulled on Fri whilst out, invited him (and his mate, and miy mate) to mine after and rather than being a wanton sex goddess, entertaining my guests with witty repartee and delightful snacks, I stumbled around my house ramming Pringles in my gob singing Qotsa songs at the top of my voice before requesting they leave as I was 'bored'.

Is it any fucking wonder I am single grin

BloomingRose Mon 17-Jun-13 22:05:12

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Jesus, MLM sad I'm so sorry sad

OhWesternWind Mon 17-Jun-13 22:05:26

SM dreadfully sorry to hear about your mum.

Winefiend Mon 17-Jun-13 22:05:41

I also miss Superstar DJ Ike.

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 22:06:15

mistakes I'm really sorry to hear about your mum. Hope you're doing okay

Winefiend Mon 17-Jun-13 22:08:16

mistakes that is awful sad. Look after yourself and take good care x

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 22:08:37

stupidmistakes, i am so very sorry to hear that, i dont know what more to say other than you have had a terrible time of it. Im glad you have people on your side and some support now, and that you are taking time for yourself, thats a very good thing. much love smile

i did believe this was an open forum? i wasnt aware that only certain people were allowed to post confused

akaWisey Mon 17-Jun-13 22:08:47

You're funny, you are Winefied grin.

I'd give POF a go but ex OD wannabe cocklodger is prob on it.

Djangounhinged Mon 17-Jun-13 22:10:02

MLM I'm really sorry to hear about your mum sad

<i did believe this was an open forum? i wasnt aware that only certain people were allowed to post>

Excluding ike of course.

48howdidthathappen Mon 17-Jun-13 22:10:45

SM So very sorry. ((((hugs))))

A big wave to Ike Miss you

Gutted that Ike has been banned. She's a bloody good staple on this thread, really hope she's allowed back soon.

Winefiend Mon 17-Jun-13 22:11:37

Wisey I am a fucking nightmare. JD appears to be like rocket fuel for me. Also attempted to dazzle a couple of French blokes with my GCSE French whilst outside smoking.

They were not dazzled.

'My name is ham trousers' in garbled French did not entertain them AT ALL.

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 22:13:21

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

OhWesternWind Mon 17-Jun-13 22:13:59

It would have entertained me, though, Wine. Inspired.

MsCellophane Mon 17-Jun-13 22:14:03

I'm back as I am dating - I like talking about dating

I don't like sexism and I don't like unfairness or bullying behaviour

Yes, the P stands for private but Bant was happy to share his version - which is very different to the real version

==============

MLM - I am so sorry to hear about your mum, that's a real blow. I hope your friends are supporting you. How is your son?

velvetspoon Mon 17-Jun-13 22:14:41

Western sorry, but why shouldn't MsC post if she happens to read something she doesn't like? There are plenty of occasional posters here, quite a few who will only comment if something is said they feel strongly about.

I for one am glad she did post, her views added some balance to the discussion.

As for Ike if she has been banned, that's a matter for MNHQ. Those of you who feel it was unfair can always take it up with the powers that be.

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 22:15:24

Cellophane. I am offended by your comments. Does that make them offensive?

I'm very happy to send the entire thread of PMs between me and watch to anyone who asks, as a PM. Normally I wouldn't, of course, as they're meant to be private, but not on here as they're quite long and the thread doesn't really need derailing any more than it has been.

Velvet, what I said was that photos with lots of cleavage showing tend to put me off someone. In the same way photos of horses also put me off. I also said men will draw conclusions, rightly or wrongly about the person, and one can choose to advertise them self with whatever photos they choose, but be aware of how they will rightly or wrongly be seen.

It wasn't a dig at you, velvet. As I said, I don't remember what photos you have on your profile. I vaguely remember big hair, that's all. Given your response I'm assuming you do have, or did have, several low-cut top photos on your profile, fine, your call.

But given that I've pointed out that some men will draw certain inferences from that, and given that you keep complaining you only attract men after one thing, never a second date, all of whom are 'below' you in some way, then do you think I may actually have a point?

This is not an attack. You can wear whatever you want. Men should not make judgements based on what you wear. But the fact is, they will. And you're intelligent enough to understand that, surely.

No need to shoot the messenger.

TortillasAndChocolate Mon 17-Jun-13 22:15:32

At the risk of adding to this - but I can't help it, I'm curious - so can you get banned from posting on a thread?? Does that not just mean she can post on the next one? Or do you mean she has been banned altogether from posting anywhere? Sorry - I'm new! grin

That's a shame either way, I loved her posts sad

OhWesternWind Mon 17-Jun-13 22:16:06

Are you allowed to pass on PMs? Isn't it against MN rules? Could you even be banned for that kind of behaviour?

I bloody hope so.

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 22:16:35

bant, im really sorry, but i dont know what you mean. maybe you could look at msC's post again.

I might also suggest that somone would only be banned if mnhq deemed it so. usually people just get told off? You cant request a banning of someone, so i think maybe your anger is directed in the wrong place.

Winefiend Mon 17-Jun-13 22:16:42

Tortillas I was wondering the same actually...

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 22:17:37

What do you mean I was willing to share my version? With who?

KinNora Mon 17-Jun-13 22:18:16

<applauds OWW>

Ike is someone a lot of us are very fond of and who actually contributes in a constructive fashion to the thread, rather than acting as a Lidl agent provocateur.

Mistakes I'm very sorry about your mum, cancer is a bastard.

StupidMistakes Mon 17-Jun-13 22:19:48

It looks like i have missed soo much on these threads. Is it so wrong for me to want someone to love me. It feels weird being completely alone in the world. My sister and me will never talk no more. I have always known that though.

I do like the person who likes me but emotionally I am a wreck so now is not a good time to Start a relationship.

akaWisey Mon 17-Jun-13 22:19:50

HaHa!!

Main thing is you were having a grand old time!

Me and Wembley Bloke are still chatting. We are still negotiating a potential date. I'm keeping my powder dry grin.

<Lidl agent provocateur> grin I am SO using that.

Winefiend Mon 17-Jun-13 22:21:47

Lidl Agent Provocateur.

Defs pinching that one grin

MsCellophane Mon 17-Jun-13 22:22:00

(and presumably you'll see I blocked your PMs because of your stunning lack of self awareness and childish need to name-call)

So you wasn't inferring that Watch name-called in pm's????

She wasn't and didn't

velvetspoon Mon 17-Jun-13 22:22:04

Mistakes/MLM I do remember you (I was Hatesponge back then).

I am so very sorry to hear about your mum. Having been through the very sudden loss of a parent in my early 20s I understand a little of how you must be feeling (my mum was unwell for a couple of months, but we were only told how serious it was a matter of hours before she died. The speed of it all was shocking, and I felt overwhelmed with grief afterwards).

I hope you have supportive friends who you can lean on and who will support you. This will be a terribly hard time for you, but even though it may seem impossible now, you will get through it. I will be thinking of you and wishing you well - and if you ever want to PM me, then please do.

Winefiend Mon 17-Jun-13 22:25:11

Mistakes It is never wrong to want someone to love you, you just have to make sure they are the right one.

Maybe you could explain to this person that you are fragile and need a wee bit of time, but eventually, slowly, you would like to pursue something with them. If they are lovely they will wait and enjoy your friendship for now smile

MsCellophane Mon 17-Jun-13 22:25:22

Mistakes - you will be loved. you have been dealt a cruel blow a number of times

But - you have shown you can turn things around and you can do it again

You need this time to grieve and I hope your friends are supporting you. There are some great organisations that help people cope with loss, have you thought about looking into some of them

Many hugs to you

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 22:25:37

stupidmistakes, there is a topic in here, i think its bereavement, that if you posted on you should get some support and understanding. Its an awful tihng to lose a parent, more so when its unexpected and before you expect. I am so sorry. Thinking of you. I also hope your problems are working themselves out.

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 22:25:53

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velvetspoon Mon 17-Jun-13 22:26:44

Bant the only point you have is in reminding me that the sort of men who make assumptions about how I dress or how much make up I wear, are beneath me.

Interesting use of quote marks by the way - suggests that actually you think I, with my occasionally slightly revealing clothing and hint of flesh showing - am not the catch I think I am...

But feel free to tell me I'm imagining things.

OhWesternWind Mon 17-Jun-13 22:27:51

SM so sorry you are feeling like this. Of course it's not wrong to want to be loved, most of us want that. It might not be the best time to start a relationship, but if you already know each other and there are feelings there, I hope you will find he's a source of comfort and support and things will just develop at their own pace. So sorry for your loss.

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 22:30:47

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RockWithaJaggedyBit Mon 17-Jun-13 22:32:36

Bant - for one, it was offensive and more than one person agrees it came across as a dig to Velvet - which is why people commented

Well, the only people who appear to be offended by Bant's supposedly offensive comments are Velvet, MsC and Johnny/Watch/whoever. Quel surprise.

SM I was lurking on here when you were last on as MLM. So sorry for your loss.

SM that is awful about your Mum, I'm so sorry for your loss.

OhWesternWind Mon 17-Jun-13 22:36:39

I've not seen any anger or hatred from Bant, just the utter weariness that many of us are feeling at yet another round of pointless sniping and nastiness derailing what is normally a wonderfully supportive and entertaining thread.

ColinButterfly Mon 17-Jun-13 22:38:06

Well you were right - had the thanks but no thanks message (finally). Duly blocked from whatsapp and have deleted my account. I'm not tough enough for this malarkey at the moment.

Flipper924 Mon 17-Jun-13 22:38:16

SM, lovely to see you here, and so very sorry for your loss. OWW sums up what I think about the person you quite like.

I hope Ike can come back soon, and I hope that a lot more of you realise that it's perfectly ok for people to have different opinions, even if you don't agree with them. Being unpleasant to someone because their opinion differs from yours is unnecessary and spoils the thread.

StupidMistakes Mon 17-Jun-13 22:38:42

I currently am doing counselling and have my second session this Thursday. I am trying to get help to overcome everything but it's so hard right now. It was very quick, but also very painful. I had to find out from the crem when the funeral was because my sister wouldn't tell me, n when she did she told me I had missed it. Surely life must get easier.

Thank you to everyone for your support. I also have cruse bereavements details for after I finish counsellin

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 22:38:49

western, i suggest you re read the thread then.

I would also look at whos doing the sniping and the name calling here. because if you read back, its not actually who you think it is.

Moanranger Mon 17-Jun-13 22:39:04

Just popped back on here and -
WTF???
Can we down weapons now & go back to our ever so amusing discussions of dating, please?
Somewhat off-topic, but saw theSTBXH to collect my CDs & - OMFG - he is growing a beard! A proper Cap'n Birdseye one. I wonder what his floozy thinks? Maybe she has left & he is channelling his inner Santa Claus. Beards do not suit him & make him look old - fine by me.
Now, troops, get a grip & back to dating stories, pronto!

48howdidthathappen Mon 17-Jun-13 22:40:00

SM My mum became ill just after I met Mr R&R, was it a good time to continue with a new relationship. No. It has been very difficult at times.

Was it worth it. A big yes smile

MsCellophane Mon 17-Jun-13 22:40:11

Yes, offended by blatant sexism directed at one person

I am proud to be a feminist

velvetspoon Mon 17-Jun-13 22:42:18

I'm quite prepared to agree to disagree. My post at 21.49 said as much.

MsCellophane Mon 17-Jun-13 22:42:56

western - it has been a great thread for over 56000 posts and some of us were here from early on - we know what a great thread it has been

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 22:43:16

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KinNora Mon 17-Jun-13 22:44:36

Mistakes Cruse are brilliant, I used to recommend them often to people when I worked in a cancer hospital. I hope you get the support you need, love.

OhWesternWind Mon 17-Jun-13 22:45:48

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johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 22:46:28

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An awful lot of us have been here from the start. An awful lot of us are feminists. That doesn't mean that we don't get pissed off when there are people we perceive to be spoiling the thread for the sake of arguing all the time. It's just ridiculous.

Anywayyyyyy. I'm ignoring it from now on, it's getting old and predictable.

ColinButterfly Mon 17-Jun-13 22:48:48

You were right, stopped messaging me and have received the thanks but no thanks text. Have duly blocked him and deleted my account. Am not tough enough for this at the moment.

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 22:49:39

watch has been banned. didnt msC say so?

and its not my warped view of reality, is it, if other people are posting the same stuff.

Lidl Agent Provocateur oh yes. Apparently a word pronounced as 'lid' is Dutch for 'sexual member'. I found this out at the dinner table, his teenage daughter thought it was funny.

Agree with the weariness, it' also pretty predictable and therefore boring.

Ike I miss you on here too, you are kind, funny and say it like it is.

KinNora Mon 17-Jun-13 22:51:46

Yeah, that bloody bastardy Bant - eeh, he's always there with his 'Women Know Your Place !' ranting. I said to him, just before I hurled myself in front of his horse at the Derby, 'Bant' I said ' you're a sexist git and no mistake. Permission to die under the hooves of your nag, sir ?'

<tugs forelock, burns bra>

velvetspoon Mon 17-Jun-13 22:52:27

Interesting that we're now calling time on the discussion, not when I suggested it, but after a couple of nice little digs my way.

But of course, that's just me being over-sensitive. Silly me.

Or maybe it's one of my glaring character flaws? hmm

And Proper as a feminist, surely you agree women should dress as they wish, without fear or concern that a man might draw an adverse impression from it? I thought that was a fairly basic feminist principle?

KinNora Mon 17-Jun-13 22:54:39

Juliette ( I may be repeating myself here ) the Arabic for 'dick' is 'air' - apparently large numbers of Arabs find the names of various airlines hilarious

MirandaWest Mon 17-Jun-13 22:55:34

This thread is filled with too many conversations at once. I can't keep up. Done my marking quota for the evening - only lots left <sigh>

Is unlike me to semi flounce even but cba too much keeping posting on here really. So I'll wish everyone well and retreat for at least a while.

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 22:56:02

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OhWesternWind Mon 17-Jun-13 22:56:15

Nora I love you (even though we know nowt as we've not been on the thread From The Start).

Colin maybe have another try in a while? It does take a bit of getting used to and it's difficult if you're not feeling particularly "up" and self confident.

I didn't get involved in the discussion, velvet, as that's not why I lurk and sometimes post on this thread. This is where I come to relax. I support feminism verbally every single day. My comments aren't about you, you're a regular contributor to this thread, and I have shown my support for you many times. They are about the few posters that don't post for ages and just jump on for a fight or to wind people up.

Grinds my fucking gears.

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 22:58:12

So.. Dating news anyone?

Scrazy Mon 17-Jun-13 22:58:18

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Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 22:59:18

Aerlingus? What does that mean in Arabic?

velvetspoon Mon 17-Jun-13 23:01:32

Bant interesting that your true colours show when under attack.

Your reference to 'however many more year of unsuccessful dates and being dropped by men' is fairly clearly directed at me.

Remind me of your longest OD relationship, since you're so clued up on how it works?

KinNora Mon 17-Jun-13 23:02:11

I love you too OWW and I definitely know nowt as I was Not Here in The Beginning, when all was peaceful and nought stirred 'cept for the gentle murmur as various non-malicious, in no way provocative, oh no not me, sirrreeee posters gambolled in the meadows of Match.

Bant I appreciate your perspective, consider yourself an honorary laydeeee.

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 23:02:52

6 years, velvet. You?

ColinButterfly Mon 17-Jun-13 23:03:41

Thanks western - I was feeling up, more so than ages having come out of an abusive relationship. Unfortunately this has set me back a bit now have had fingers burned. But is my own fault for rushing into things really.

KinNora Mon 17-Jun-13 23:04:20

Shall I find out Bant ? I suppose it's too much to hope that essentially it's Fellatio Airlines.

lurkinglorna Mon 17-Jun-13 23:04:30

Hi well I'm a lurker and always look at this thread so HI!

Can I put a situation to you?

Had 2 online dates with someone and second date confirmed what I noticed on first one - he has strong BO?

Not sure its "him" or just that "unwashed clothes mildewy smell" but very unpleasant and offputting and though I was "ok, not 10/10 attraction but likes me and accepts my living situation with the kids and could grow" on first date today I'm like "when can this end" .

I think go for the "most socially conservative option" and just do the "sorry busy with work" thing (he's still active on OD - which is fine - we haven't done the deed or made any promises) but feel a bit awful that its gonna put other dates off him - overall he's a fairly attractive guy, new to OD.

(this is not a wind-up btw)

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 23:05:06

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Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 23:05:17

Also, thanks for acknowledging publicly that you were attacking me. Nice to see.

I believe that's generally seen as naughty.

KinNora Mon 17-Jun-13 23:05:52

Do give over Johnny

velvetspoon Mon 17-Jun-13 23:05:53

Bant so far as I was aware, you had only been OD-ing for a couple of years and the Artist was your longest relationship? Or am I wrong?

To the rest of you on the thread, who have countless times told me how great I am, that I simply meet the wrong men and that the problem is NOT me...are you going to comment? Or just allow what Bant said to stand unchallenged?

velvetspoon Mon 17-Jun-13 23:07:32

'Under attack' is a phrase.

If I had meant under attack from me specifically, I would have said so.

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 23:08:25

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Scrazy Mon 17-Jun-13 23:08:43

Lurking, oh dear very tricky. I don't think it's up to you to mention it really, if you don't like him enough to continue putting up with the pong or sorting it out. He might not have laundry facilities or is a bit depressed and personal hygiene has gone awry.

Miranda, don't stop posting, I think that's the plan grin.

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 23:08:50

Watch - (face palm)

Lorna, eww. Bad smell is enough reason to call it off. You can use the 'no chemistry' excuse which is fine after two dates. And everyone is tempted to help fix other people, but generally it's not well received so I wouldn't if I were you.

Moanranger Mon 17-Jun-13 23:08:54

Hmm, I posted earlier about male limbic system response to cleavage - twould be nice if not true, but there you are... Me, I'm a total feminist, go to bed singin' Maria Muldaur's' "I'm A Woman ...can make a dress out of a feedback, make a MAN outta you..." But I am also a biologist, which is handy when dealing with the male of the species...
But back to dating, I have a good friend, divorcing, dead keen to have an affair, charming, slim, academic (Oxford Classicist) what is/are the best dating sites for someone like her ? I haven't a clue -Times, Telegraph, any ideas?

OhWesternWind Mon 17-Jun-13 23:09:22

If you felt ready Colin then it was good to give it a go. Like many things, the first time/few times are the most nerve wracking and difficult. Now you've broken your duck, next time it will be easier, easier again the time after that. Just take your time, no rush at all

Took me eighteen months to be ready after my crappy LTR ended, some people take longer, some less time but I think you'll know when the times right to have another go. My first date was a dud, couldn't believe he didn't fall at my feet, but looking back I was very nervous and unconfident and that has improved a lot with time. Good luck!

KinNora Mon 17-Jun-13 23:10:13

Oh Johnny no, I wouldn't let it lie, I also have 'booze for the baby'.

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 23:11:52

Velvet, OD has been around for a long time. I did it when younger.

MsCellophane Mon 17-Jun-13 23:16:07

Firstly - I haven't reported a single person

I never left, I have continued to read and post sporadically

Bant, you are happy to point out a few of us aren't having the best time with OD - how many second dates have you procurred? Character flaws? Yes, I have some and will happily put them forward - will you? I know I am opinionated and forthright and I know men have a hard time dealing with that. But I'm possibly one of the more successful daters on this thread as I have dates, found a spectacular FWB - who as it happens is a perfect gentleman and am in contact with most of my dates on weekly or monthly basis still - are you?

Attacking a woman is cowardly, attacking two is plain nasty

lurkinglorna Mon 17-Jun-13 23:16:28

thanks bant and Scrazy!

(makes me sound manky but don't mind a guy a bit sweaty or wearing a day old shirt or whatever if there is a "mutual attraction" already) Seems sorted in other areas of his life but "leaves washing in the machine for too long". i'm not his mate so I'll leave it and yeah there might be a woman who likes him SO much she'll sort it smile)

oh well, now down to e-mailing guy abroad.

KinNora Mon 17-Jun-13 23:17:47

Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnn

StupidMistakes Mon 17-Jun-13 23:19:12

Well i dont know if any of you remember my first online date "just friends" well we were chatting again for a while, he came and found me after I changed my number. We met up a few times, had a good chat, but we decided that once we had managed a last chat that it was time to cut away from each other. His wife has been in touch also, and confirmed they were separated when he met me. She is an FHM model. And very ver

StupidMistakes Mon 17-Jun-13 23:20:44

Vwey pretty. He does care but is commitment shy after his marriage. Fair enough but that means I can move forwards.

Scrazy Mon 17-Jun-13 23:21:56

Smoothie, meant to say before that a whole weekend away with a lovely guy will leave you all loved up and those sex hormones play havoc for a day or two when you are back on your own. It's a bonding thing and is a good sign.

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 23:24:12

I don't need to point out some people aren't having the best time with OD. It's an online discussion thread for advice, all of us have problems with it occasionally.

And at the moment, you're right. I'm not seeing anyone from OD because I'm seeing someone who I met in real life. It's early days. I don't know how successful it will be.

Velvet, buffy was my longest thing from OD recently, that was about 2 months before she left the country. Not because of me, I should point out. The artist was about 3 very intense weeks. I've had first dates with something like 20 women in the last 8 months, second dates with 6 of those. One disappeared, one moved countries as I mentioned, I finished with the others because it didn't feel right for whatever reason.

I didn't intend to attack anyone. I defended myself against accusations raised by people who only ever want to start a argument.

And yes, velvet has said she's feeling fragile many many times.

TortillasAndChocolate Mon 17-Jun-13 23:28:41

Wow, I leave the thread for an hour to go and do some real life stuff, and missed a million messages only half of which are to do with dating!

I never row with anyone in real life (well other than my ex - but that's another story) - its a bit depressing coming on here for some escapism and lighthearted chit chat and finding it so unpleasant. It seems it's always the same people looking to find arguments. It's draining. I think people need to maybe go back to the 'not engaging' strategy. (Although I haven't been here since the beginning of dating thread time so feel free to ignore me)

I'm off to bed. Hopefully the thread will be back to normal tomorrow.

velvetspoon Mon 17-Jun-13 23:28:51

I'm not bothered by a lot of stuff said this evening, for reasons that are so obvious I won't need to elaborate.

What I am bothered about though is that there are many posters on this thread who I have got to know over a long period. I have been happy to offer advice when I can, and equally happy to receive it, and appreciate the time and effort that has gone into providing that advice and support. I know many of your back stories, and the thread feels like being amongst friends, with the bonus that we are all trying to find our way through the dating world and sharing stories and views as we go.

I have struggled at times with OD, I have tried different approaches, some more successfully that others. The one constant during that time is that everyone on here has always said:

It's the men. It's not you.

And that the right man would appreciate me. I was being told that this very weekend after things went wrong with C.

Yet now, one poster has said 'actually it IS you' (and you've got a whole host of character flaws, but I'll save those for another time) which completely contradicts almost everything that has ever been said to me on this thread.

And not one of you has commented.

I don't know whether this is because actually you always thought that was the case, and it was easier to tell me it wasn't me.

Or because I have caused a row and am now persona non grata.

Or for some other reason.

But I am hurt by that. That people I thought were friends would do that to me.

I guess as ScottishMummy always says, it is just words on a screen. And all expressions of concern, advice, apparent friendships have to be taken with a pinch of salt.

johnnydeppshat Mon 17-Jun-13 23:29:14

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MsCellophane Mon 17-Jun-13 23:32:11

Well, now you know you did attack someone and upset a few people, the decent thing to do would be to apologise to her

Not continue saying derogatory things about her style or her actions

I have only argued on here when I see someone unfairly attacked - twice as it happens. I will defend any sexism I see and I will defend people I feel are being bullied

I won't engage with childish yawns and oh dearie me's, they are there to inflame only

If one person takes issues with your manner it can be a clash of personalities, if more than one does - maybe you should look at your own self awareness and see what can be changed

TortillasAndChocolate Mon 17-Jun-13 23:32:27

I feel a bit like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day...

Ok I'm definitely going to bed now. Night all

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 23:35:14

Night tortilla

Snapespeare Mon 17-Jun-13 23:35:30

Fucking hell. All I posted was that torsos are a bit ick (for me) in OD profiles and wondered if 'cleavage' had the same effect. I honestly didn't mean it to start a riot. Thread, I'm sorry.

I hate confrontation. Really. I try to fence sit when things blow up, because I truly hate people fighting. I also think women do have an absolute right to wear what they want and that some less evolved men will take that as a green light to be obnoxious.

I have no time for the fighting and will not engage on either side. I don't think anyone should be banned, believing the thread to offer perspective, intelligent discussion and an occasional shoulder. I also believe that everyone deserves to put their opinion without personal attacks.

MLM it's good to hear from you, even under such sad circumstances. I'm sorry for your loss. I lost my mum to cancer when I was 23. As I was an only child to a single parent, it hurt more than I can articulate. I'm glad you're getting the help you need.

I had a mammogram today, so have been absent. (It was clear) Felt I had to apologise to you all for things kicking off, truly not my intention.

Bant Mon 17-Jun-13 23:39:33

And cellophane, I heartily agree with your last comment. Maybe your friends should read it too.

But, I didn't attack anyone. I made a comment about photos, following on from my earlier ones about horses, and I was accused of being sexist and wanting to assault women.

I'm not going to apologise for anything.

Now either post about dating on here, or go form your own thread about how horrible people are. This thread is meant to be about dating and you've completely detailed it

lurkinglorna Mon 17-Jun-13 23:47:17

moanranger

Can your friend sign up to different sites just to "see who is there"- i know match has a trial period where you can just have a profile up and your photo and have a look round and after about 2 weeks if you haven't paid they offer a "free 3 day trial"? (but remember to ring and cancel)

also she sounds very attractive but maybe choice of site will depend on what kind of man she herself would like to meet - someone posh too or someone with a degree or ...? eg I know some posh blokes who are happy to date women with not the same backgrounds" as long as they are attracted and get on?

MsCellophane Mon 17-Jun-13 23:50:26

My friends show great self awareness, I choose to be friends with people that do

We were talking about dating and still will, perceptions are an important part of dating

And you can't and won't tell me what to do or where to do it, open forum - open thread

Bant Tue 18-Jun-13 00:02:20

Chortle. Did you not read those PMs?

Moanranger Tue 18-Jun-13 00:04:29

lurking thanks for responding - she likes intelligent men. Her difficulty is probably geography plus limited pool of single men of her ilk. Match might be a bit too general, but I will suggest it to her.
Velvet I would like to be supportive& sorry that I have not responded specifically to you situation, but this off-topic trend I haven't followed so much. I could not form any kind of judgement as to why you have yet to meet anyone special especially without really knowing you in RL. I have never done OD & never want to as it commodifies human relationships, which I think is fundamentally wrong. I am a big fan of Meet Ups. So rather than say " oh, it's the men" or "oh, it's you" I would say maybe the problem is OD.
And when I make my case against OD, someone always comes back with the stories of that many happy relationships started that way, but it doesn't change my view.

StupidMistakes Tue 18-Jun-13 00:11:57

snape my mum was also a single parent. I lost my dad to cancer when I was just 15months old. I know how hard it is.

mercury7 Tue 18-Jun-13 00:14:47

yikes, I think the shit stirrers are gaining ground shock
I can hear the faint cackling of evils old hags confused

mercury7 Tue 18-Jun-13 00:25:29

jeeze Louise...dont you people know that it is vitally important NOT to feed trolls!!

Bant Tue 18-Jun-13 00:29:29

Watch out mercury, they'll get you banned..

mercury7 Tue 18-Jun-13 00:32:14

no no I'll be ok...I Just need to surround myself in white light and wear my amethyst earrings grin

BillMasen Tue 18-Jun-13 00:35:42

I had intended to pop back on here after a night out to catch up on dating chat but I'm disappointed to see that it's descended into arguments yet again. Unnecessarily so in my view.

I'm happy to re-iterate my support for velvet regarding dating, and it not being anything she does wrong at all. I'm also sure that bant is not sexist, meant no offence and actually I think some of his early comments have been either misunderstood or misrepresented. That said, he has bitten back when he probably shouldn't have done.

There is no need to "win" every online argument. It's ok to walk away and let someone else think they've "won" or had the last word. It doesn't mean you're weak.

Bant Tue 18-Jun-13 07:14:49

Morn

Bant Tue 18-Jun-13 07:17:05

Whoops

Morning all. Should we draw a line under last nights arguments and go back to dating?

Bill, you're right, of course, but its difficult not to react when you're the one in the firing line. Any news on Italian/moongirl?

Mercury, too much dungeons and dragons?

Snape, glad you're okay

johnnydeppshat Tue 18-Jun-13 07:28:16

yes, morning all.

Date day is confirmed with my rl date, next friday. Looking forward to it.

pornstarmartini Tue 18-Jun-13 07:32:27

I feel like I threw in a hand grenade and walked away. I like this thread. It helps keep me sane during the drama of OD. I shall be sitting firmly on the fence and not commenting on the discussions. There's been so many posts that I have no idea how everyone is doing with dating.

I've started chatting with a nice guy but again he lives 2 hours away. Not an immense attraction from his photos but there's something. Going to Skype this week and see if I can persuade him to meet half way for a drink. Still totally ignored by pc arse. I so want to know why he just vanished. We got on really well and there was a clear physical attraction. I really really want to ask him :-(
.

Kirstywirsty Tue 18-Jun-13 07:34:27

Morning .. Still nada from MrNYC .. He does appear to have been on POF since Sunday . Is there any way to check ?

brokenhearted55 Tue 18-Jun-13 07:37:10

Date day is allegedly confirmed for Saturday. I am getting hugely excited about it. I asked about 10 pages ago for people to tell me to calm down and throw cold water on me as I'm getting so excited but I got ignored I think with all the arguing.

He seems really nice and enthusiastic but you never know.

Kirstywirsty Tue 18-Jun-13 07:37:34

Doesn't appear to have been on POF !!

brokenhearted55 Tue 18-Jun-13 07:38:50

Also the OD site I subscribe to has stopped matching me with anyone that lives remotely close to me. they're all miles and miles away sad

TortillasAndChocolate Tue 18-Jun-13 07:55:51

Broken - calm down, consider yourself soaked with a jug of cold water grin Seriously it's so unusual that there's a spark, I would probably look forward to it but just don't expect anything as would hate for you to come away feeling disappointed. Whereas if you expect nothing, anything better is a bonus.

Martini - dont bother with policeknobhead. I wouldn't give him tr ego boost of him knowing you're even still thinking about him. If you asked him he probably still wouldn't reply and you'd feel even worse that you had messaged again. You don't want someone that unreliable anyway. Bring on the next one!

TortillasAndChocolate Tue 18-Jun-13 07:57:22

Oh and kirsty I'm not sure - I think that might be one of those upgrade features they try to convince you to pay for... Although in my favourites list the most recently online always goes to the top so if he's in your favourites that might give something away.

Flipper924 Tue 18-Jun-13 07:58:56

Kirsty, the only way I've found to check is to do a search that you know he'll come up in. That then tells you whether he was online today, or in the last week.

If anyone knows a better way, I'd love to know! And for OKC too. The only way I've found of checking on there is to look at their profile, but then you appear as a new visitor. It just makes stalking people soooooo complicated.

Moanranger Tue 18-Jun-13 08:07:14

Broken Here's a big bucket of cold water from me! I was in your position about a month ago - the combo of fear, excitement, raw nerves, etc - nearly had a nervous breakdown. The trick is to follow this thread's rules, relax - if possible - & enjoy!
Keen to hear how it goes....

KinNora Tue 18-Jun-13 08:12:55

Broken here I come with the crash carp - zzzzzzzzztttttt - clear !

Morning everyone, have fun out there. Still no appearance from Showbiz, hmmmm, rather ill mannered, I think.

akaWisey Tue 18-Jun-13 08:15:38

I'm relieved this thread (which I've only just decided to come to for some OD support/news/whatever) seems to be drawing a line under last night.

So - Wembley Man and I are exchanging one-liner messages, currently about food, he's said when he finishes the job he's working on he'd come to my town. I've not asked when that's likely to be, but what's the protocol with OD that doesn't go straight to a meet up? How long does one message before it's clear it's not happening? I'm not in a hurry by any means but I'm truly ignorant and keen not to repeat my my first and last OD disaster?

Bant? Can you give a male perspective please? I feel like I'm playing a game of poker grin.

Hrrrm Tue 18-Jun-13 09:09:32

Sooo... I have a date this evening, and... I may have just walked past him. I think it was him. He didn't show any signs of recognition and I was wearing huge glasses which I don't usually wear, so... a bit awkward. Perhaps it was someone else. blush

Would it be weird to ask him to meet me outside this evening so that I know who he is?

Also, trainers on a first date (pub; converse) - is this a no no? (For me, I mean.)

OhWesternWind Tue 18-Jun-13 09:09:36

Morning Broken - takes me back to primary school assemblies writing that . . . Bit of excitement is good, too much is an almost certain route to a big let-down. I know it sounds so dampening, but the chances are that there's not going to be a spark here, so expect a nice date with a pleasant man and you probably won't be far wrong. If you get the spark too, we will all be envy

Martini ignore CopperKnobber. Just put it down to experience. Who else do you have on the horizon?

Kirsty I second Flipper's way of finding out not that I ever do anything like that myself Still hoping he will reappear.

Wisey well that sounds a bit open-ended. Is he working away or something so he can't come sooner?

Nora what a shame about ole Showbiz - still, that means there is a vacancy to be filled . . .

Bant if you can't get the hamper, can you get the checked table cloth and strawberries?

No news from me, feeling a bit jaded with OD and wondering when things will happen for me. College Bloke is still on about going for a curry but I don't know if I can be bothered. Not sure whether to wait for Alpha to come back off his trip and see how things go there, or if I'm just deluding myself by thinking there might be something there. What should I do? Carry on regardless for the moment? I know that's what I would advise other people but I'm still feeling a bit meh.

OhWesternWind Tue 18-Jun-13 09:12:57

Sorry Hrrm cross posted. Asking him to meet outside is fine. That's the bit I really don't like on dates where you go in and are scanning tables for some bloke who may or may not look like a blurry profile photo . . . Wear what gives you confidence and is comfortable!

Kirstywirsty Tue 18-Jun-13 09:14:03

If I search on his user name nothing is returned .. Does that mean his profile is deleted/hidden?

brokenhearted55 Tue 18-Jun-13 09:14:13

My first ever OD has massive chemistry and sparks. Hence why so hard not to expect it again.

Maybe being excited puts you in a better frame of mind for the date?

Kirstywirsty Tue 18-Jun-13 09:15:37

bant what about a wicker basket instead?

nora sorry about showbiz

Hi to everyone else

OhWesternWind Tue 18-Jun-13 09:24:02

A bit excited is good Broken but too excited is probably going to lead to a let down. To be honest, it's been dates where I've almost cancelled that have led on to something more, so excitement beforehand is no indication of what will happen.

Are you on PoF Kirsty? If he's deleted it will show if you look at past messages.

BillMasen Tue 18-Jun-13 09:37:58

Morning.
bant Italian has been quiet since I stated my expectations of ex