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Dh has been stealing from me to gamble

(104 Posts)
Questioneverythingtwice Wed 12-Jun-13 18:15:00

he has lost £1,800 in the last month. We have always kept our finances separate and I pay all the bills. But he has been using my cash card without my knowledge. We've been married 8 years and have a one-year old. I've also found out he has borrowings with about 7 payday loan companies and other dodgy loans. I had no idea before today.

Anyone been through anything similar?

Darkesteyes Wed 12-Jun-13 18:17:26

This is serious financial abuse OP.

7 payday loans as well as stealing from you BLOODY HELL.

Xales Wed 12-Jun-13 18:23:15

Money is something I am very anal about having seen my mum screwed over time after time by boyfriends/husbands and having to bail her out.

It would be 'this stops now and you get help' or marriage over for me.

I could not live with the uncertainty that due to another persons selfish actions my home could be at risk due to unpaid bills.

Easier said than done I know sad

Good luck sorting this out.

AThingInYourLife Wed 12-Jun-13 18:26:04

I could never come back from finding out the person who was supposed to care about me and my daughter most in the world was prepared to steal from us and put us at risk of serious harm.

Questioneverythingtwice Wed 12-Jun-13 18:28:27

I've hacked One of his Internet betting accounts, changed the password and 'self-excluded him from using it. I can't get into the other betting website account he uses. Ffs he lost £100 betting the day I was in labour!

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 12-Jun-13 18:32:34

What's he going to do to return the £1800 and anything else he's stolen? Why are you having to hack his accounts rather than him do it off his own bat? Is he taking any responsibility at all?

AThingInYourLife Wed 12-Jun-13 18:33:11

Don't bother hacking into his accounts.

He'll just make new ones.

Go and see a lawyer about exactly what your liabilities are here and take steps to legally separate yourself from him before he destroys you.

What are you going to do to keep your finances and your means to look aft your child safe?

Questioneverythingtwice Wed 12-Jun-13 20:39:16

I phoned GamCare before dh came home from work and the lady was really helpful with some good ideas. Confronted dh when he came home from work and he burst into tears, literally shaking and ashen faced. He has phoned GamCare too now and they have helped him. He has deleted all his Internet betting apps and I'm going to get software to stop him ever accessing betting websites again. He has promised never to so much as buy a lottery ticket ever again.
He has agreed to have all his salary paid into my bank account from now on and to close his bank account. He has given me all his credit cards. He is currently talking to the consumer credit counselling service for advice. He's going to get a new sim card and phone number tomorrow to stop the payday loan people hassling him.
We're making a to-do list and we will get through this I hope.
Thanks for your input.

Xales Wed 12-Jun-13 21:04:05

You also need to change all your banking passwords and pin numbers so that he cannot withdraw from your accounts without your knowledge.

Does he realise he's bloody lucky to still have you? He still needs help. Please check out Gamblers Anonymous. Once the remorse dies down (and he realises he hasn't lost his family) the withdrawel will kick in. He also needs to make this public to friends and family so they don't lend him any money. Do you think he'll do this?

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 12-Jun-13 21:37:49

Well he's come up smelling of roses, hasn't he? hmm A few tears, promises to change and handing over the bank card and everything's peachy. Never mind that, if you hadn't found out about this, you and your kids could have been potless, homeless and out on the street. Keep your wits about you OP because addicts are sneaky, lying bastards that don't care about anything but themselves.

WeAllHaveWings Wed 12-Jun-13 21:42:15

5 years ago dbil gambled over £15,000 of his redundancy money before dsil found out. He got into trying to gamble to recover his loses and borrowed money from other family members to cover his tracks.

Dsil went ballistic when she found out. Gave him the choice, gamblers anon or her and their two sons would leave. She made it clear there were no second chances and she would not tolerate his addiction.

Dbil started GA and hasn't gambled since. He does not want to lose his family. As recommended by GA he has no access to money/bank cards etc and dsil gives him only money he needs. He is not resentful of this as he has accepted he has a problem.

They have paid off his debts together.

5 years on and their marriage has survived.

To get through something like this I think your dh has to accept he as a problem and come completely clean with how much he gambles. If your dh won't accept he has a problem and won't take serious steps to resolve it you need to consider if you will stay and put up with it.

Good luck.

I think I'd have given him another chance as well OP. Just one though. If this were me & DH & he did it again it would be the end, no further chances, we have a young child as well. I gave him a flat ultimatum several years ago on another matter (drink & drugs) & he knows damned well if he ever goes beyond reasonable behaviour drink wise, or ever touches drugs again, it's the end for us. He never has so far (it's been about six years) so people can sometimes change if they want to enough.

Questioneverythingtwice Wed 12-Jun-13 22:39:24

The thing is, I can't handle the idea of my child growing up in a house without a father. Also I'm the main breadwinner and I own the house in my name only. So not a major risk whatever he does.

I think he is genuinely remorseful and relieved to have it all out in the open. Believe me, I will not let him have any privacy going forward to make sure nothing gets worse.

Trouble is that I have had a sneaky feeling something wasn't right for a long time but I have asked him and asked him and he has denied and I have just carried on and buried my head in the sand so I feel like I'm partially responsible too.

AnyFucker Wed 12-Jun-13 22:44:49

This isn't going to work out, OP

Everything you have just said in your last post is so wrong and so counterproductive I don't even know where to start sad

Questioneverythingtwice Wed 12-Jun-13 22:46:45

And of course I do really love him despite everything.
We went through so much to achieve a successful pregnancy and our child is so delightful. I couldn't bear it if I couldn't make this family work.

2kidsintow Wed 12-Jun-13 22:48:25

Walk away????

My friend's husband managed to remortgage their £200+ house, then still couldn't stop and raided the school fund for a further £50k+ before he was discovered and arrested.

She was devastated.

Questioneverythingtwice Wed 12-Jun-13 22:49:21

I wish you would try to start AF because I truly don't understand your point of view

AnyFucker Wed 12-Jun-13 22:56:50

Go to some Gamblers Anonymous meetings, OP. We cannot tell you how it is going to be, because you need to hear it from people who have been there

You are minimising and excusing him. You say you can't bear your child to grow up in a house without its father. If it was up to its father, that house would be mortgaged out from under the child to feed an addiction

Payday loans...seven of them ? That tells me there is serious lack of impulse control. You cannot stop him, you cannot control him, you must take no blame.

These are his choices and you are lucky so far. Sweep it under the carpet, you will regret it. Micro managing him for the rest of his life is not the answer. Taking away his privacy, once the shock has settled, will make him resent you and slowly kill your respect for him that you have to control his impulses like a toddler.

He is a practised liar, OP, and a few crocodile tears are not going to change that. I see nothing in your posts about how he is taking responsibility for himself

As it stands, you are shouldering at all and he is the cowed little boy (for now)

sanityawol Wed 12-Jun-13 22:57:12

Please be very careful. It was only on separating from exH that I discovered just how bad things were as I started getting post addressed to me. Money was borrowed in my name without my knowledge.

We split 8 years ago. The end is finally in sight for me as I have just five more payments to make and that's the last personal loan cleared. My credit history is screwed though.

What I should have done is report him for theft and credit card fraud, but I was just relieved to be out of the marriage.

He would also cry when caught in a lie... Didn't stop him though, or stop him spending money we didn't have. The tears were always because he had been caught, not guilt or remorse for what he had done.

If he has secret online accounts and payday loans I would suggest that you get your current credit reports to make sure that his behaviour is not affecting your credit file.

LisaMed Wed 12-Jun-13 23:03:28

The house may have your name on the deeds but it is an asset of the marriage. Should you split, and if you are married, he would have a claim. btw you may like to check your own credit files to see if anything has been opened in your name and close any joint accounts and sever any financial links. It may be worth checking his credit file out as well. Those payday loans are vicious.

Make sure you know where all your jewellery and valuables are and be really careful about your own cards and passwords. Hide any valuable that has sentimental value as well.

Check out the rules for bailiffs and what they can and cannot do and what they can and cannot take.

I think he means every word of what he has said to you now, but addiction is a dreadful thing. You may yet find other financial stuff and even if you don't you will have your hands full with the payday loans. Please protect yourself and your child.

LisaMed Wed 12-Jun-13 23:04:20

Forgot to say - good luck and hope it works out for you.

MrsFrederickWentworth Wed 12-Jun-13 23:11:22

Echo the point about addiction. He has to want to change. And that means going to Gam An.

And get legal advice, on the current and future position. You may need to do things like take out ads saying you are not responsible for his debts. You need to see his and your bank.

Think of it as a disease that only really amazing effort on his part can cure. You can still love him bit you need to protect your child and yourself.

sanityawol Wed 12-Jun-13 23:19:49

That's a good point Lisa - I had 'forgotten' about all the actual stuff that went missing, everything from cds to jewellery from my grandmother that I thought was well hidden.

We had a DD together. I stayed too long because I didn't have a 'reason' to leave and he kept promising to change... If only I had MN then.

WhiteBirdBlueSky Wed 12-Jun-13 23:27:18

There is no way for any of us reading this to know if your DH will turn it around or not.

If you noticed that something was wrong and repeatedly asked him about it, then you bear absolutely no responsibility for this. I can't imagine a realistic scenario where you are responsible.

Questioneverythingtwice Wed 12-Jun-13 23:55:33

white bird that's the thing about a year ago I chucked him out because he had a payday loan and he had previously promised me he would never take another out again. But then I didn't understand why he was getting into debt. Now I know it's an addiction I can sympathise and help and hopefully change things going forward.

Questioneverythingtwice Thu 13-Jun-13 00:03:31

Ps I saw a lawyer before I got married because I thought I ought to get a pre-nup to protect myself. The advice at that time was just to carry on as per, e.g. Everything in my name and paid for by me. Pre-nups weren't taken into account 8 years ago. But I don't think dh could claim anything. Anyway, I don't want to live apart from him whatever he has done!

WhiteBirdBlueSky Thu 13-Jun-13 00:30:58

I don't see how that makes you responsible.

AThingInYourLife Thu 13-Jun-13 00:54:57

"Now I know it's an addiction I can sympathise and help and hopefully change things going forward."

No you can't.

How can you possibly think one phone call and a few easy tears are going to change anything?

This man has been lying to you and stealing from you for over a year.

You've already given him an ultimatum, and he did it again.

You are risking your child's security to satisfy your own selfish desire to stay with him.

Darkesteyes Thu 13-Jun-13 01:18:51

Anyway, I don't want to live apart from him whatever he has done!

And well he knows it.

countingto10 Thu 13-Jun-13 06:46:28

I think gambling addiction is the worst, there is a limit to how much alcohol you can consume and how many drugs you can take, money wise, there is no limit with gambling. Somebody I know, her H took his DC's toys to Cash Convertors sad.

My DH is a gambler, nearly took us down 4 yrs ago - ended up owing £300k including £30,000 borrowed from a friend shock. Gamblers are the biggest manipulators/liars, most deceitful people I know.

You cannot micro manage them, you have to make them responsible for their own mess. My DH had to negotiate with creditors himself, he had to work his butt off to turn the business around and pay creditors, he self excluded himself from betting sites, he went to counselling to understand his self destructive/implusive behaviour. All these things he did himself. BTW it is not recommended for gamblers to enter into IVAs - working to pay off creditors and negotiating with them, themselves, so that they actually "feel" the pain and the consequences of their actions is how it should be IYSWIM. It is also recommended that control of bank accounts/finances is only done in the initial stages of recovery, he will need to control himself. You do need to protect yourself and your DCs.

Like the previous poster, our credit rating is crap, only beginning to be repaired now. And my DH had some slip ups in the first six months as behaviour doesn't change over night.

I, personally, think your DH doesn't have any consequences ATM and therefore I don't think this will end well for you.

CogitoErgoSometimes Thu 13-Jun-13 06:47:26

"Now I know it's an addiction I can sympathise and help and hopefully change things going forward."

Now you know it's an addiction, you must understand that you are not in a position to change things or even help him. He has to take full responsibility for his actions, accept the problem, find some motivation, stop lying and commit to change entirely independently. Your 'sympathy' oriented plan at the moment seems to be to pay off his debts, let him off contributing towards the family, manage his access to money and trust that when he says 'I've stopped' he's stopped. He's laughing...

calmingtea Thu 13-Jun-13 06:51:19

Knowing someone has an addiction does not mean sympathising with them and protecting them. That is called codependence and that will cause a lot of hurt to you and your family in the long run. While you mother him because "he is ill" he has no reason to change. He has got away with theft. He has put his addiction before anyone else, including you and his children, that is his only love. He needs help, he needs you to stop mothering him and make him face what he has done, he needs gamblers anonymous and most importantly you need help too - therapy or a support group.

What would help him. Make him face his actions like an adult. Call the police. Kick him out. Otherwise he will not change, he has not reached rick bottom, he has no incentive to change. If you let him stay, he will bankrupt your family, he will destroy you, you could quickly lose your home, everything. Alcohol, addiction, gambling, overspending... all of these destroy families. You can't protect him, he needs to want to get better (and words at this stage from him mean little - addicts are superb liars). You can only protect yourself and your children.

Lavenderhoney Thu 13-Jun-13 07:01:34

Yes, a member if my family went through this. He made her life a misery. She slept with her handbag under her pillow and he stole from piggy banks.

She spent her life as a policing him. He still gambled. Borrowed money, sold his car, ( she ended up getting him another)

He had his own company with plenty of staff. He would borrow from staff, steal petty cash, even run out of petrol although he had been given 50 to fill up.

He used to leave the dc in the car outside the betting shop. They were supposed to be swimming. They never told.

If he wants to stop he needs to do all the work, GA, everything. And protect yourself more. Think nasty divorce and protect all the assets and cash. Ensure the will everything goes to your child and he is NOT a trustee. Stuff like that.

mummytime Thu 13-Jun-13 07:03:41

"white bird that's the thing about a year ago I chucked him out because he had a payday loan and he had previously promised me he would never take another out again. But then I didn't understand why he was getting into debt. Now I know it's an addiction I can sympathise and help and hopefully change things going forward."

I think you need to read and re-read this post, until you get what is so wrong about this.

Your actions a year ago were correct until you took him back.

AnyFucker Thu 13-Jun-13 07:12:25

OP ain't listening.

What calmingtea wrote earlier.

What do you get out of this relationship now?. This whole thing smacks of co-dependency here along with a selfish desire to be a two parent family. He has lied and lied repeatedly at that to pay his gambling addiction. That is more important to him that your child or you.

This is likely not going to end well for you or your child. Your desire to keep this sinking ship afloat could well be your ultimate undoing. You are too close to the situation to be of any real use, not that he actually wants your help anyway.

Badvoc Thu 13-Jun-13 07:20:11

Thing is op, your dh has to want to be a father and be a family.
And - through his actions - he has demonstrated pretty well he doesn't care.
I'm sorry.
This is not your fault.
Stop blaming yourself.
You can't love this better.

tribpot Thu 13-Jun-13 07:33:13

You characterise it as an addiction but also draw comfort from the fact he's promised not to do it again. Classically the addict will always promise that - and even mean it - but it is not enough to change the behaviour. He needs professional help, you cannot do this between the two of you just because he was remorseful during the discovery.

I couldn't bear it if I couldn't make this family work
Well, life's thrown you a problem you can't solve. Please think carefully about your definition of 'work' for the long term, there are plenty of children of addicts on MN who can tell you how damaging an addict can be to childhood.

I hope your DH has woken up today determined to get to Gamblers Anonymous, to install blocking software on his laptop, and to start working to repay the money he has stolen.

LisaMed Thu 13-Jun-13 07:40:45

Please check on legal, but I understand it that after eight years of marriage it doesn't matter whose name is on the deeds or who has paid for what, it's still an asset of the marriage. Hopefully it won't come to that.

I think you may find it helpful to check out about gambling addiction and all the problems that go with it. You can hope for the best and plan for the worst. Things have got worse since you last spoke about this. Fingers crossed they will get better.

Wishing you all the luck

PearlyWhites Thu 13-Jun-13 07:55:12

Can't believe people's attitude on this thread it makes me do angry. The op has an addiction is needs proper help he is not stealing her money for his fancy women.
Op I hope your dh gets the HELP he needs and you can support him. Obviously he needs to take responsibility and that is the first step of the recovery process.

AnyFucker Thu 13-Jun-13 07:56:43

Gambling might as well be "fancy women"

Some people's dealbreakers are not confined to sexual infidelity

LisaMed Thu 13-Jun-13 08:12:56

PearlyWhites the thing is that the OP is going to be desperately affected by the addiction. Gambling addiction can lose more money than heroin or drink but be just as cruel and demanding. The child will be affected as well. I am not saying LTB but when it reaches 7 payday loans then the financial fallout for the family will already need careful managing, just as someone suffering from heroin addiction will need careful managing.

To be honest, I think the OP would have an easier time if the money had been spent on other women. There is a better statistical chance of reining it in.

AThingInYourLife Thu 13-Jun-13 08:17:29

Well, Pearly, some of us don't think being a gambling addict gives you a right to drag your family down with you.

He is stealing money from his wife and child.

2 grand in the last month that she knows about.

She also knows he is a liar who hides debts from her.

The risk to the child remains until he is removed from the family.

He can sort out stopping being a lying thief on his own time.

mummytime Thu 13-Jun-13 08:20:38

PearlyWhites - my father had a gambling addiction, fortunately my mother left him. But not until she had had to beg for money from her family to feed me, and she herself was massively under weight.

I was also friendly with a man who had a gambling addiction (he went to my church, and I think saw me as an extra daughter). He was desperate to "get back" with his wife, and had stopped gambling BUT I am not sure he was doing it for himself, but just to get her back. If she had taken him back I suspect he could easily have slipped back into his old ways.

I also watched a functioning alcoholic who had been dry for years, eventually give in to temptation and in the process lose his lovely second wife. His mistress "drink" was just too alluring for him.

tribpot Thu 13-Jun-13 08:21:05

I can't speak for others on this thread but as an addict myself, I don't find it helpful for non-addicts to declare that addiction = disease = excuse. It is much, much more complicated than that, and it's not that the OP's DH is a bad person but he is responsible for what has happened. The OP's DH needs tough love and the OP needs tough love too. Their lives are on different tracks now - they are not making the same journey towards recovery, but hopefully they will 'meet' each other again further down the line.

Questioneverythingtwice Thu 13-Jun-13 08:21:58

This is not a 'deal breaker' for me. I'm religious and my marriage vows mean a lot to me. Legally I own everything and I owned everything before we got married which is why the legal advice at the time was that a pre-nup was unnecessary.

I think I can close this down if I have his salary and he just gets pocket money. I know that seems like he's being treated like a child but the GamCare lady advised this and then him dealing personally with his creditors.

I am actually feeling relieved that I finally know what the problem is. My dh has been so distant from me for so long. He's not a bad person just a bit hopeless and I'm sorry to say afraid of me losing my rag.

comingintomyown Thu 13-Jun-13 08:25:22

£1,800 last month ? 7 payday loans, other loans and the stuff you inevitably dont know about yet ?

I agree he needs to be feeling the effects of this far more than a few promises

AThingInYourLife Thu 13-Jun-13 08:26:37

Pity you didn't take any vows to your child.

One might think they were implicit in having the child, but clearly not.

"they are not making the same journey towards recovery, but hopefully they will 'meet' each other again further down the line."

Beautifully put.

"I think I can close this down if I have his salary and he just gets pocket money."

<boggles>

Which part of this stops him continuing stealing from you or taking out more loans?

LisaMed Thu 13-Jun-13 08:29:22

btw my father forged my mother's signature to get a remortgage on the house. It worked. The house, which had been paid off, was repossessed and even back then emergency council housing was grim.

I hope I am wrong and I hope you will all be fine but I would really suggest you do things like check credit reports and keep checking. It is important to protect your daughter.

Regardless, I hope we are all really wrong but if further problems show, please keep posting. There is a lot of practical advice on here.

WaitingForMe Thu 13-Jun-13 08:29:56

I think tribpot puts it brilliantly.

I appreciate that OPs vows mean a lot to her but hasn't her DH broken his? I don't see much love and honour in his actions.

oldwomaninashoe Thu 13-Jun-13 08:33:16

I'm sorry OP but I would have called the police when I found that he had stolen from my bank account.
Where are the cosequences to his appalling behaviour.
(My Exh stole from my bank account, I gave him the option police or pack a bag and go)
I couldn't live with such dishonesty, being a gambling addict is no excuse.
Tough love is required, because once he has got over his tears at being discovered he will be plotting and planning new ways to keep it from you.

LisaMed Thu 13-Jun-13 08:33:59

If the husband really owns the problem and the OP really locks everything financial down - and I mean everything - then it may work out.

It's the full disclosure of finances that would be needed first, I think. I think the credit check by Experian and the others is a good counterbalance for the honesty of an addict. Sorry, but that is the effects of addiction.

Really wishing you good luck.

AThingInYourLife Thu 13-Jun-13 08:41:43

There is no way to lock everything financial down when you are dealing with a thief.

"I think I can close this down if I have his salary and give him pocket money"

Now you are treating him like a child as well as enabling him. Where are the real consequences for his actions here?. This is your gambling dependent H you are writing about. He has a very serious problem and I think you are underestimating his capacity to lie and keep lying to you about the actual state of the finances. Do you actually know how much he has lost and may well continue to lose?.

Your religious convictions to keep this marriage together may well go onto cost you dearly. He has completely wreaked your marriage by his actions. You did not cause this, you cannot control this and you cannot cure this.

Further enabling him as you are doing will just drag you even further into the mire of co-dependency.

Is this really the model of a relationship you want to be showing your child?.

Put you and your child first. You are too close to the situation to be able to help him, not that he wants your help in any case.

Questioneverythingtwice Thu 13-Jun-13 08:44:47

Thank you LisaMed that is exactly the approach we are taking.

Others have been slightly hysterical on here about the money involved but dh takes home more than twice what he lost gambling last month and I get about a grand more than him so we really can sort this out very quickly now everything is out in the open.

I really do believe he won't ever do this again too. He knows what it means for our marriage and he really cares about that the same way as I do.

IthinkIneedmorewine Thu 13-Jun-13 08:47:16

I went through a very similar thing with my ex. Gamblers (imho) are incredibly successful liars. They need to be able to lie to themselves everyday to continue living their separate lives (gambling and reality).

My ex was incapable of changing, and eventually the stress, lies and constant worry about how we were going to buy food this week led to a massive breakdown, and he beat seven shades of crap out of me for refusing to give him any money to gamble with.

I'm so so much happier since I kicked him out, and my daughter is much better off without the lying, sneaky, immature bastard.

Questioneverythingtwice Thu 13-Jun-13 08:48:56

I didn't ask for all of your opinions. I asked for anyone who had been through something similar to let me know how it had worked. Throw your judgeypants in the wash!

Questioneverythingtwice Thu 13-Jun-13 08:50:26

Sorry cross post with I think

He needs to work out exactly why he gambles in the first place, he may well have told you in the past that he will stop gambling when he wins big. This goes very deep within his own psyche.

I do not think you will ever know the full extent of his losses; they must be massive.

What is he really doing to solve his gambling problem, do you think he would even attend a GA meeting?. You cannot ever take full ownership of this nor should you. Words are cheap after all, its actions you need to start looking at.

He cannot even scratch the surface of his gambling problem without seeking - and sticking with professional assistance. You need outside support as well and Gamcare help family members.

He has to want to do this for his own self and take full responsibility, not just because you have finally discovered what you have. You cannot do this by yourselves. You both have a hard road ahead of you and he could well relapse again.

Fluffycloudland77 Thu 13-Jun-13 08:59:20

You can get post-nup agreements you know.

I have a relative whose a divorce barrister and he arranges them for clients.

It's a way of ring fencing your assets.

You will read posts you do not like but to write things like "throw your judgypants in the wash" just further shows you in a poor light. This defensive stance does not help you.

Questioneverythingtwice Thu 13-Jun-13 09:04:58

Oh I hadn't heard of a post-nup before. That might be worth investigating. I know the law has moved on a lot in the last 8 years. Are you able to pm me his details? If I organised something like that it would really show dh some consequences.

Questioneverythingtwice Thu 13-Jun-13 09:08:22

Sorry I wasn't trying to be defensive Attila but humorous.

Fluffycloudland77 Thu 13-Jun-13 09:09:48

I think most family law specialists do post nups now, depressing as that is.

It did not come across as humorous though and this is why I replied as I did.

If you really want to help your DH, you have to help your own self first. You and your child are really your number 1 priority here; not him, nor your firm religious convictions or marriage vows come to that.

34DD Thu 13-Jun-13 09:17:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AThingInYourLife Thu 13-Jun-13 09:17:49

"Others have been slightly hysterical on here about the money involved but dh takes home more than twice what he lost gambling last month and I get about a grand more than him so we really can sort this out very quickly now everything is out in the open.

So if he takes home £4K a month and is only gambling a piffling half of that amount, why did he need to steal from you and take out all those loans?

You think everything is out in the open now?

Dude, you know as much as he felt he needed to tell you to get you to overlook the fact that he is still lying about money.

The fact that you seem relieved to find out he is a gambling addict shoes that you have no fucking clue what you are dealing with.

And two good salaries makes no difference. As has already been pointed out, there is no limit to what can be gambled.

Far richer families than yours have ended up with nothing because of gambling addiction.

Lavenderhoney Thu 13-Jun-13 09:22:19

Pearlywhite, the fact that he is not spending it a woman doesn't make the ops problem any less of a problem.

Yes it's a compulsion and addiction. Which is why she needs to protect herself and their child should it all go wrong and she spend the rest of her life trying to rebuild her wealth. She has already been taken in once so she would be very foolish indeed to do so again.

She can still support him, but first she needs to ensure finances etc are tied up and he can't get at them by any means. She is not his keeper and her life and that of her child should not be tainted by having to police her dh for ever more, have her credit affected etc.

countingto10 Thu 13-Jun-13 09:29:47

I think OP you are in big denial here. I have been in your shoes and my marriage has survived so you can get through this. Both DH and I had counselling - me primarily to deal with codependency and building my self esteem so that I would not tolerate any of these behaviours from my DH, putting appropriate boundaries in etc.

You really cannot comprehend how bad his gambling can possibly be. My DH put over £25,000 over the counter at the local bookies alone. He bet online, he did spread betting, he bet on anything, football, golf, tennis, the horses, literally anything. When he should have been working, he was studying form - you can imagine the dire straits the business was in. I had 4 young DCs, 2 with special needs, at home. The final straw was that he had an affair with a woman who worked at the local bookies (you couldn't make it up hmm). As much as I hate to say it, his affair was the thing that saved him and our marriage, as far as he was concerned that was his rock bottom due to the type of woman she was.

He has had many months of counselling to understand his need to test himself and self destruct. He had a need to put himself in perilous positions to see if he could extract himself from them. It wasn't gambling as such that he needed to reach a high but the adrealine of getting into a tight spot, trying to find the money to gamble, so many different facets to the whole thing. He has really struggled with himself during recovery, episodes of depression etc. It has been far from easy.

He has found better ways of dealing with stress now, getting "highs" from other areas eg running, tennis etc. Giving himself targets in that way.

You really need to step right back now, protect yourself financially, maybe get some counselling yourself to understand codependency etc.

Only your DH can cure this and control this, not you.

34DD Thu 13-Jun-13 09:31:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lavenderhoney Thu 13-Jun-13 09:32:54

Pocket money- is that money for gambling? As in my experience that is how gamblers will see it, and find it very hard to change.

Money he can do what he likes with. When you go for lunch, or on holiday, or for your daughters birthday, or christmas. will you be ok with him having no pocket money saved up?

If you both agree to that, then make sure he is aware its for his clothes, petrol, odd bits, not for squandering on gambling.

countingto10 Thu 13-Jun-13 09:33:30

Btw that £25,000 at the bookies was in less than 12 months alone.

sanityawol Thu 13-Jun-13 09:42:35

OP - you cannot fix this by 'managing' him. With my ex, when I locked down access to money the secret credit cards and things disappearing from the house started.

My ex was a compulsive and accomplished liar. There were all sorts of other manipulative and abusive behaviours going on, and I suspect at least two affairs that I couldn't prove.

I didn't go into marriage lightly and took my vows seriously. Not wanting to give up on this saw me barely hold onto my home for me and DD, and paying off debts of £50k. It also destroyed my self esteem.

That's nearly two thousand pounds he has lost in one month. That is only what he has admitted to. If he earns so much money, why does he need payday loans? FWIW, I live in a low wage area and £2k is more than the average household monthly wage here. That is £24k a year and in my book is a fuck of a lot of money.

I am not saying LTB, but please look after yourself and DD. Above all else, get both of your credit reference reports now to find out the full extent of
this and see what damage has already been done.

That's nearly twas lost. I couldn't

sanityawol Thu 13-Jun-13 09:44:06

Apologies for strange last sentence. Phone being twatty and wouldn't let me scroll down to delete.

oldwomaninashoe Thu 13-Jun-13 09:49:15

Pay day loans are the last chance for people needing cash who can't borrow it by normal means.
Op you need to dig very deep to find the full extent of his debts as he probabably has several overdrawn bank accounts, loans and maxed out credit cards.
The £1800 and the 7 payday loans are just the tip of the iceberg, and I can honestly say they were the last resort for your DH after he had exhausted all other means.

No one is being unkind to you on this site, but feel you have not comprehended the full reality of the situation you find yourself in.

34DD Thu 13-Jun-13 09:56:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CinnabarRed Thu 13-Jun-13 10:00:01

May I ask how you found out it was gambling? I appreciate that you hacked one of his online accounts, but how did you find out about it in the first place? How did you find out about the 7 payday loans.

I don't have experience of gambling, but am the daughter of an alcoholic so know something of addictions. I too fear that you have misunderstood the depths to which your husband has gone and may yet go.

I am particularly concerned by the fact that you kicked him out last year for taking out a secret payday loan when he had previously promised not to (one ultimatum broken already right there) and yet he had still taken out at least 7 more. As others have said, there is a strong probability that this is the tip of the iceberg.

gamerchick Thu 13-Jun-13 10:05:25

I agree.. Log onto Experian and do a one off credit score for both of you. It was 20 quid the last time I did. It will list all debts, how much is owed, to who repayments and defaults. When you have all of that in front of you you can look at your options and next steps. You must be overwhelmed with it all.. Little steps for the minute.

PearlyWhites Thu 13-Jun-13 10:18:58

I am not excusing his behaviour just pointing out that when you are in the throws of addiction your actions whilst you are still responsible for them are taken out of desperation. I doubt he gets any pleasure from the money he has stolen that is why the answer is help.
I admire the op that she takes her marriage vows seriously.

AThingInYourLife Thu 13-Jun-13 10:23:22

Whether her gets pleasure from the money is moot.

It doesn't make it any less stolen, any less squandered, any less burdensome a debt on his family.

There is nothing honourable about placing your marriage vows ahead of your child's welfare.

lollylaughs Thu 13-Jun-13 10:42:11

What ever happened to marriage vows? As soon as something goes wrong everyone jumps on to post that op should leave her dh. Op's dh clearly has an addiction. As tough as things are, and will be in the future, he has a problem for which he needs help. Is kicking him out on the street the way to help him when clearly what he does need is support. Op has called the gamblers line for advice, has suggested to dh that he should also, to which it seems he did. Whether or not dh is in their lives now or out on the street he still needs to deal with his issues, and has a wife and child.

We don't go into marriages knowing what will come, but I thought that you went into marriage with an understanding that you support each other in good times and in bad.

I wish you all the best op, this is a long hard road and I take my hat off to you for being there to support your dh.

It's not about ignoring marriage vows, it's about what helps and what doesn't help when dealing with addiction. The OP's attitude sadly absolves the husband of responsibility and protects him from the ugly consequences of his actions. Therefore he is unlikely to truly tackle the addiction. Addicts can't be loved out of being addicts. The psychology of addiction tells us that addicts will continue to take all the live and support they are given whilst lying and continuing their addiction if they can. Tough love is often the only sane approach.

And OP - if your husband and you earn so much money, why was he getting payday loans? That's rubbish and you know it. And don't be so sure that your assets are protected, when you get married you share assets sadly so he could very easily drag you down.

34DD Thu 13-Jun-13 10:58:27

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CinnabarRed Thu 13-Jun-13 10:59:58

The problem is that you can't support or help an addict who doesn't want to change.

We can't tell, and neither can the OP at this stage, whether her DH wants to change.

Remember the 3 C's:
- you didn't cause your partner's addiction
- you can't control your partner's addition
- you can't cure your partner's addition

Questioneverythingtwice Thu 13-Jun-13 11:10:47

lollylaughs thank you. For better and for worse means something to me. And this is definitely for worse. The real reason I chucked him out before was that I had a feeling he wasn't telling me the whole truth. Now I know the truth I feel we can work through this together.

I discovered all this yesterday because my bank contacted me and I checked my transactions and saw all the cash withdrawals he had made without my permission so I opened his bank statements and saw all the payments to betting websites.

Questioneverythingtwice Thu 13-Jun-13 11:15:37

The house is mine. I owned it before I ever met him. I have had legal advice and they said he can't touch it and never could under any circumstances.

CinnabarRed Thu 13-Jun-13 11:20:55

Please, please don't assume that this is all of the truth.

I desperately hope, for all of your sake, that it is. Just as I desperately hope that your DH now wants to change.

But if you only take one piece of advice from me then it's this: hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

That means at least the following (and there will be others):
- check both your and his credit ratings
- change all of your cash card PINs
- lock away valuable items he could sell
- get legal advice on who would be entitled to what if you were to split, both financially and in terms of contact with your daughter
- separate your finances including a post-nup
- learn to accept the 3Cs (and, God knows, that's the hardest part).

CinnabarRed Thu 13-Jun-13 11:24:41

The house is mine. I owned it before I ever met him. I have had legal advice and they said he can't touch it and never could under any circumstances.

I really would get this checked (and by someone other that whoever gave you the advice previously) - becuase it's completely contrary to all of the advice I've ever seen.

I, like others on this thread, have been told that once you and DH married it became an asset of the marriage and therefore he could have some financial claim on it.

I think that actually, in strictness, its value would be included in the 'pot' of assets to be divided between you, rather than that he might be able to claim the house. But as, for many couples, the house is their main asset it often has to be sold to ensure that each person gets their fair share.

CinnabarRed Thu 13-Jun-13 11:25:23

Unless, of course, you aren't in England/Wales - that might make a difference to the legal position.

sanityawol Thu 13-Jun-13 11:26:09

AnyFucker you're right, OP isn't listening. I think I will step away after this post as so many of us with first-hand experience are not being acknowledged.

OP you take your marriage vows seriously, that is a good thing. We are not necessarily telling you to separate, but you need to be fully aware of all the facts.

The only way to do this is get credit reports now. Please do not take the word of an addict. If he needs payday loans ALL of his salary has been spent and all other normal forms of credit have been exhausted. Does he have credit accounts with bookies?

He did not tell you, the bank did and they probably rang you up in the first instance because of the frequency of withdrawals being made. You do realise he has stolen from you don't you?.

You seem to be more concerned about your marriage vows (what about his marriage vows to you that he's trampled all over and keep citing these. You also vehemently support posters who share this narrow minded view rather than any wellbeing of your own be it emotional or financial. That also indicates to me that you are in denial about what is happening in front of you. You have no real idea of the scale of his problem.

I am glad it is not a deal breaker for you, my aunt has a gambling addiction when my uncle found out he threw out of the house, it took him three years to notice she had gambled so much money. My first thought when I found out was she has an illness how can you be such an ass to chuck her out ( in this case it really was just an excuse to end the marriage). Unlike your husband they were in a situation where they could afford for her gamble away the money.

Even now almost 20 years later my aunt is not allowed to control her own money, members of my family and the bank control how much she can spend. She has been through counselling and appears to lead a normal life but she can never be trusted with large amounts of money even though it is her own.

I hope you can work this out.

ARealDame Thu 13-Jun-13 11:31:52

I would always leave someone who stole my money and deceived me about it, addiction or no addiction, partner or no partner. I agree with whoever said it is a police matter. And I agree with whoever said the OP will be back here again.

CinnabarRed Thu 13-Jun-13 11:34:45

Out of interest, what did you think he was doing with his salary before you found out about his gambling?

Given that you pay all the bills, so he has no 'official' outgoings.

Did you assume he was saving?

EldritchCleavage Thu 13-Jun-13 11:38:29

1 Keep searching: do a full audit to make sure you know the full extent of it. Unfortunately, you cannot rely on your husband to tell you everything, even now.

2. See a lawyer asap about a post-nup and what else you can do to protect your assets and your house (some kind of charge or note on the Land Registry etc). Be ruthless, because your children need you to be. You just cannot end up homeless.

3. Insist on your husband attending GA meetings as a condition of staying and try some family support meetings yourself. Educate yourself-don't take your husband's word for how things are.

4. Then step back and let your husband work on recover. Let him decide to go to meetings etc. He HAS to do it himself. If you help or baby him too much, I think he will be much more likely to relapse, or never recover at all.

I wish you good luck. Other posters have recovered from this in their marriages but I hope you don't mind me saying that one or two of your posts have come across as hopeful to the point of naive, and that isn't in your and your children's interests at all.

SolomanDaisy Thu 13-Jun-13 11:49:37

You really need to check both your credit reports. Someone on his salary doesn't move onto payday loans and stealing from you without exhausting conventional credit first. Even if you ignore all the other advice here, at least do this so you know what you're dealing with.

madetolast Thu 13-Jun-13 12:11:56

The advice about the house was probably given with debt/bankruptcy in mind. I went bankrupt knowing our home was safe because it was in DH's name and I'd never paid towards it (this was very clear because it had only been bought by DH after I'd defaulted on my debts). But I was advised that if we'd been living together in the house for longer, it would be less clear-cut, as they'd have to investigate a bit more deeply to see whether I'd paid enough in to become a beneficial owner. It sounds like your DH wouldn't be regarded as beneficial owner under bankruptcy, if he hasn't been paying anything at all towards it, but it wouldn't be automatic, they'd have to scrutinise your accounts quite closely to satisfy themselves I think.

Others have mentioned the house as an asset of the marriage, which regards property differently - it will be a joint asset even if it is all in your name and even if you were the only person making payments towards it. It would become part of the marital pot of assets (this is because sahms are regarded as contributing to the marriage assets through their work in the home even if they don't contribute financially). So, although some finance laws make the distinction about home ownership very clear, the marriage/divorce laws do not, so your home would be at risk if you were to split. My own sister got the house in her divorce even though she was a sahm and had never paid any money towards it.

Debts would still be regarded as his own, however, but there's always a risk that he might have taken out joint loans in your name. I am not sure what your legal position would be with the cash withdrawals if you have disclosed your PIN to your DH, I have heard some banks refuse to investigate in this type of case as you're responsible for safeguarding your PIN.

tribpot Thu 13-Jun-13 20:17:38

My advice has nothing to do with marriage vows, because addiction has nothing to do with marriage vows. I sincerely wish the OP and her DH the best, and hope everything works out - as I think every single poster on this thread does. OP, the best advice you can be given has already been given - a reminder of the three Cs. I know it's not what you want to hear because you would rather think if you (singular) just try this can be fixed. Learning to accept that you cannot may be the hardest part of your journey. I wish you luck.

stooshe Fri 14-Jun-13 10:41:42

Very late to this thread and am quite shy of posting, but I will go ahead. In 1979 a cousin in my family swanned off to the U.S "for a year", paid for by his sister so that he could escape the financial mess ( he is an alcoholic and fraudster and thief) and a possible prison term that his reckless, enabled behaviour caused. He married a woman bigamously in the U.S and lo and behold he turned up two weeks before christmas in 2011. His wife in all the thirty one years that he was away( he did not send back one red cent for his now grown children in all the time he was away) had not divorced him ( despite obvious evidence that he cared not one jot about her or his children. Older and wiser women than me had to counsel her to get a divorce as the shame of her children and him fighting over the spoils should she die would be too shameful. You see, despite his abusive, narcissistic behaviour, SHE took her marriage vows seriously and despite being a lovely woman, she is somewhat a professional martyr ( she hasn't had a man since he has been gone).
When you shack up with an abusive partner the fallout for the kids can be enormous. My cousin's eldest daughter is a forty eight year old mother of four who has NEVER left home, who uses her mother as a crutch (learned from the father?). She is also the child he used to take to his fancy women's houses as "woman bait", behind the mother's back. She is also the child that used to chastise her mother when her mother was struggling to make sure that her children did not go without food whilst paying off the debts that her husband had left behind. I remember being told that the oldest child's friend had to tell him that his father was in the local paper for stealing from work. You may not like this, but when deceptive people get with strong "never gonna give up" people, they KNOW that with the love and determination, your weakness is your pride. They KNOW that whatever it takes, you will manage to get things done with or without them. Look. I come from a culture (Jamaican) that is over infested ( and seemingly always has been. The "Yardies" despite their brashness are NOT the pioneers of skullduggery) with strong, blind women and weak over virile men. Your husband KNOWS you. You do not KNOW him. You are preparing to solve a problem that is not of your own making and of which you do not appear to want to know the full facts. Get rid of your pride. Trust me, when I had to get rid of an idiot last year( at the age of forty one) I said "no more, never again". In order for me to reach this enlightened point of view, I have had to drop my ego in order to fully see what possible weakness I had to attract such an arsehole to me. I couldn't get caught up in any petty "what has she got over me, What have I got over her" malarkey. It was a kick in the gut, the realisation that my ex is a monster and in fact "loves" a woman as long as she conforms to his rules. You, unknowingly are conforming to "rules" that your husband has laid down for you without your knowledge. Don't be like my cousin's ex wife who threw away her youth away for a wastrel and has turned to church for comfort and company whilst she keeps a lid on her grown daughter's behaviour. For all her appeasement and enabling, HE left her - the final disgrace AND came back to Britain after thirty one years, not to beg forgiveness, but for his British pension that he could not access in the U.S! Your husband like my cousin (despite him being a pisshead of monumental proportions) knows what he is doing. Don't let him inflict what could be an even more devastating blow to you. Weak people like to drag strong people down with them. P.S gamblers do not make good parents. How much money has he taken out of his kid's mouths? Do you want to know, or are you afraid that the knowledge will cause you to HAVE to split? Put your children first, because your husband doesn't.

LisaMed Fri 14-Jun-13 10:53:12

OP - you noted that I supported marriage. You did not note that I told truthfully of a paid off house being remortgaged on a forged signature.

(it was the vicar who persuaded my mother to file for divorce)

MrsFrederickWentworth Sat 15-Jun-13 13:10:34

Op,

Your marriage vows involve love.

I think real deep down love, that hates the sin but loves the sinner, involves tough decisions. Tough love.

It's going to be be really hard. You will need need counselling and support. There are some Christian counselling organisations , its worth checking those out.

You have duties to 3 people, imv, your dd as the prime non adult one and then your DH and yourself. Your dd can't do anything but rely on you, so for her sake you need to.put yourself next.

Best wishes.

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