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Headf**k boyfriend who I sadly love....HELP

(93 Posts)
waddlecakes Sat 08-Jun-13 12:03:56

I've been seeing him for a little under a year and it's always been difficult. He has mental problems and in April went into a psychiatric hospital for 2 weeks.

The past two months have been good and I really thought we were moving forward.

Yesterday afternoon I went round as planned and he was having an ''off'' day. We were supposed to watch the tennis. We essentially spent 6 hours straight arguing, him saying he ''doesn't know how to be in a relationship'', he doesn't know what to do with me, how to feel. He has no job and hasn't for a good few years (we're in our late twenties). His family basically are too scared to isolate him and so they tiptoe around him trying to make life as comfortable as possible. We have the same GP - yesterday he went to see her, looking to be referred to some specialist doctor, and our GP told him he needed to get a grip on life and stop thinkjng he was unique, because people aren't. That shook him and I suppose it's what kicked him into havng a 'bad day'. He was really sullen and introspective when I arrived, I had to try and get him out of the house. We kissed and then he tried to drag me into the bedroom (it sounds scary, but what I mean is he really wanted to get 'it on', but I could sense an aggression to it that made me realize somewhere in the back of my mind that doing it then would have been about him releasing tension and not really about sex, and so I refused and continued trying to get him out the house).

I've never been anything other than loyal and supportive to him. Our argument started because although he was generally being difficult, there came a point where he made a ''joke''. Can't remember what the context was but he said: ''I haven't given a shit about your feelings for awhile now''.

He said he probably has some sort of Madonna/whore complex, he doesn't understand what I'm doing with someone who is so useless in life and in bed (premature ejaculation issues). He said he was only capable of seeing me in three different ways - sometimes as magical and wonderful, other times he doesn't even think of me at all, and then sometimes just as a sex object. He said he wanted to tell me things he'd never told anyone before...then he broke down and said he ''hadn't been honest'' with me. He said when we first met, he was supposed to be involved in something with another woman. A woman who lives in Norway, who is also ''crazy'', who three years ago he thought could have ''been'' something to him. When he met me, they had been exchanging letters, but then he fell under ''my spell'' and realized that she was just an illusion in a way, that none of it was real. He said they had continued writing to each other until this April.

That's when I started crying. Maybe I overreacted because he never promised me anything and I suppose I always knew that he could never fully be mine, and I too had been tying up loose ends with a guy (casual) when we first met...but coupled with everything else, it just seemed like a lot. I got up and walked to the door but he wouldn't let me leave, he wanted to finish the discussion. I told him he had so little going on in his life that he was trying to suck emotion out of creating drama like this, and I also told him that I'd noticed that yet again he was handing in his notice for his most recent job (lasted 2 days in it) and was also handing in notice for his flat (his plan is to sleep at various friends), so I told him he was probably trying to get rid of me as well to justify having some big massive breakdown.

This went on for hours. We went to bed, had sex and went to sleep, he didn't touch me all night, same in the morning. In the morning he disappeared to get food but I felt so drained I waited for him for 5 minutes and then just decided to leave. As I was leaving he came back in and told me ''not to leave like this'', he had stuff for breakfast, etc. I told him I just wanted to get home. Then he said: ''Let's go to the lake tomorrow'' (where we go swimming).

I'm so confused. I love him so much and it's been an unsure thing since the very beginning because of his issues - I've never been allowed to get closer than the point he decides on. But it really felt like things were getting better...I just don't understand why he's trying to hijack things now, and why he didn't just let me leave when I wanted to, or why he didn't just finish things. What the fuck does he want from me?

I'm sorry this is so epic, I needed to get it out. If anyone can offer me insight on this I'd be grateful (any direct conversation about it with him is completely impossible), or if anyone has been in a similar situation. Don't tell me to just forget about him, I can't.

LilyontheLeaf Sat 08-Jun-13 12:20:40

I have a couple of friends in relationships with men who have severe MH issues.

It has always annoyed me that some people use MH issues to treat their loved one like shit.

Being depressed doesn't make you a wanker. Being a wanker makes you a wanker.

The question is - are you happy?

waddlecakes Sat 08-Jun-13 12:26:40

I was happy until yesterday morning since as I say things were getting better and I was beginning to feel secure.

If he wanted it to end he'd only have to say - he knows that I won't make it difficult for him if he wanted out.

But I don't have the strength to end it myself, because I love him.

I agree about the MH as an excuse thing. I just don't understand why he's doing this and what he wants from me.

RandomMess Sat 08-Jun-13 12:27:42

I would in all honesty get some counselling for yourself. Is the reason you desperately love him etc because you need someone to rescue?

maleview70 Sat 08-Jun-13 12:35:21

He doesn't understand why you are with him.

To be frank neither do I.

You are wasting your life. Don't allow that to go on any longer. I know someone in their 40's who has 2 kids with a bloke like this. He spends half the day in bed, hasn't worked for 15 years and threatens to top himself almost daily. She hates him but feels guilty because of the kids.

You dont have kids so end it, mourn your lost love and move on.

LilyontheLeaf Sat 08-Jun-13 12:39:36

Loving someone is not a reason to stay with them.

Some parts of your post make me so sad "he said he hadn't given a shit about my feelings for a while now". Well, that much is clear from the way he behaves. It's so sad that you think that is OK.

The reason it has been "unsure from the beginning" is nothing to do with the MH issues - it's him. He wants to keep you on a leash, but not offer anything in return.

You are worth so so much more than him. You have the right to expect a partner who is 100% committed to you.

Being in a relationship makes you give up all the joys of being single - being able to do what you like, see who you like, take your life in whatever direction you want.

To give that all up and compromise - it better be someone seriously wonderful. Is he really it?

Love yourself and you will love being by yourself. Do you have close family / friends in RL?

Sianilaa Sat 08-Jun-13 12:42:58

Sorry, why are you still with him? He's been pretty honest and says he hasn't given a shit about you for a while. Why did you have sex with him when he'd been vile to you all day and made you cry?

You do not want to wake up in 10 years time and still be here, happy one day, confused the next but with children because then you'll never leave.

Mental health issues aside, this man is a waste of space. He will never change, never hold down a job, never put you first. He will only ever think of his own needs. How will he be a good, stable parent and husband?

You deserve better. A real man doesn't play mind games, prioritises his partner and acts like he's part of a team IME. There are men out there that would love you, treat you right, build a life with you.

Please don't waste another day with this one! As someone said, mental health issues don't mean you get to treat your partner like shit. He is a bad apple.

waddlecakes Sat 08-Jun-13 12:47:49

Thanks for your replies, I suppose I can see why I might be latching on to this.

First of all, I have been living abroad for quite a few years now and over the past year have really felt like I wanted to move back to the UK. I have my friends here, but a part of me has sort of ''checked out'' over the past few months as deep down I want to leave. I suppose this ''relationship'' was the thing that had been giving me some hope.

Second of all, it's such a cliche, but in fact I had a father who I only ever saw three or four times in my life. It's a bit sick, but he is essentially rhe same person and I suppose I can't cope with feeling that rejection twice.

What a mess.

Lweji Sat 08-Jun-13 13:43:06

Yes, what a mess.
You've been together less than a year, no children, don't even live together.
It should be pretty simple to finish it off.

You don't need this drama.

All you have to do is decide it's over.

CogitoErgoSometimes Sat 08-Jun-13 13:47:31

I'm not seeing 'love' here, just a type of dependent infatuation which he is engineering & manipulating through his 'head-fuck' antics. Rejecting you and pulling you close in turn is emotional abuse designed to smash your confidence. The only cure for this is to take a break from him and keep your distance long enough to unhook yourself mentally. You're not obliged to him, you owe him nothing and you could just as easily love someone else.

chipmonkey Sat 08-Jun-13 17:32:26

It's less than a year and you're miserable. Think how miserable you'll be after 20 years. And how miserable your children will be. Just walk away, he's told you what he's like, you need to believe him!

NotDavidTennant Sat 08-Jun-13 17:47:52

But if you set it up so that you won't leave unless he tells you to, then there is no way for this to end other than for you to be rejected.

Take the power back and walk away of your own choice.

wordyBird Sat 08-Jun-13 18:03:11

Oh dear...I wondered what had made you attach to a man like this. It's such a waste: you're young, you sound like a lovely, kind person with a sense of adventure, and you're giving your love to a man who has explicitly told you he doesn't care. At all.

He stopped you leaving when you wanted to (big red flag) and wanted to use you for sex (another red flag). And he's actually told you his distorted views about you - none of which are healthy and respectful of you as a person.

There is nothing good here for you. Only pain now, and more pain later.

If you want live back in the UK, make the break and do it. Be brave and get away!

Undertone Sat 08-Jun-13 18:12:33

Man. I have been there. Believe me. No matter how engrossing and touching his emotional drama is, no matter what a thrill and a deep burning sense of pride you feel at 'being there' for him, no matter that every now and then your sheer compassion and reserves of energy let this guy stay ok for 2 months; he is bad news. Very bad.

MH issues aside, he is electing to treat you this way. It's a shock, because you've invested so much into him, that it is almost impossible to believe he would do this to you. He is.

Demand more of someone that you love unquestionably. Demand more for yourself. Don't settle for so very, very little. His family find him hard to deal with? They've had a lifetime to try and help him.

You side in your op that you "can't" forget him. Without sounding too harsh; bollocks. This is a flawed and poisonous emotional connection. Not The Greatest Love Of All Time. No such thing as can't. Grip it and live a better life. Without him being a cruel millstone.

Lweji Sat 08-Jun-13 18:21:46

Yes, about the "not forgetting", you are used to him.
You will notice his absence.
You may miss the adrenaline rushes.
But you will forget him, if you create distance.

lemonstartree Sat 08-Jun-13 19:45:34

RUN ; please please RUN AWAY. this man is a waste of space and will never treat you appropriately, Just let him go ...

bigkidsdidit Sat 08-Jun-13 19:53:24

Why, after he was so horrible to you, did you have sex with him? I find that difficult to understand. I don't think you should settle for this crap treatment.

SomewhereBeyondTheSea Sat 08-Jun-13 19:56:35

This man is a nightmare. You cannot 'save' him. Only he can do that.
You sound lovely, but get the hell out, build your own life and leave him to sort his shit out. You cannot fix him.

CogitoErgoSometimes Sun 09-Jun-13 08:01:08

" We kissed and then he tried to drag me into the bedroom (it sounds scary, but what I mean is he really wanted to get 'it on', but I could sense an aggression to it that made me realize somewhere in the back of my mind that doing it then would have been about him releasing tension and not really about sex, and so I refused and continued trying to get him out the house)."

BTW This ^ ^ ^ ^ is just nasty. Any hint of aggressive sexual behaviour should be a big alarm bell, even if it's dressed up as 'passion' and especially if you think you've become 'tension relief'. It's quite the opposite of loving and affectionate behaviour and it sounds scary because it is.

bleedingheart Sun 09-Jun-13 08:24:35

I think you need to look at why you felt you needed to stay in the house arguing for six hours and didn't walk out after the initial argument/hurtful words.
Please don't throw your life away on someone who is telling you through words and deeds that he doesn't give 'a shit about your feelings.'
He is not your dad. Reject him, don't hang around trying to save him until he latches on to someone else.
Sorry if this sounds harsh but it won't get better. He has told you what he thinks of you, please think more of yourself.

MadBusLady Sun 09-Jun-13 08:38:32

What does he want from you? He wants exactly what you're giving him, all your worry and emotional investment and heartbreak and being caught up in his bullshit drama. He's hurting you and confusing you because he likes it; all the while you're logically assuming this relationship has to either stabilise and become normal and nice, or end, he is assuming no such thing. He doesn't want a straightforward nice relationship and is practically telling you that in so many words, but he won't want to let you go either because then who could he hurt and confuse? The only way forward is to push him away.

MadBusLady Sun 09-Jun-13 08:39:03

What does he want from you? He wants exactly what you're giving him, all your worry and emotional investment and heartbreak and being caught up in his bullshit drama. He's hurting you and confusing you because he likes it; all the while you're logically assuming this relationship has to either stabilise and become normal and nice, or end, he is assuming no such thing. He doesn't want a straightforward nice relationship and is practically telling you that in so many words, but he won't want to let you go either because then who could he hurt and confuse? The only way forward is to push him away.

MorrisZapp Sun 09-Jun-13 10:24:21

What they all said. Don't waste your freedom, your youth and your energy on day-long arguments that go round and round. Love isn't meant to be painful or a chore. He does not love you, sorry. He wants to carry on as he is, being danced around and treated as special. It's all him. Get him binned while its still early days, there will be no improvement if this nonsense carries on. Good luck xx.

Lavenderhoney Sun 09-Jun-13 10:31:22

You answered yourself in your thread title. His behaviour is not loving and caring, he tells you himself he doesn't care for you.

Being sadly in love is no place to be. One of you has to stop it, he is behaving like this and you take it. You are worth far more than that.

There's no need for a big talk, the outcome will be the same , and it will exhaust and depress you if you just hear all over again how he doesnt care for you. it's over- so just collect your things, leave and break contact. If you have arranged a stay with a friend so much the better, or a trip back to the UK.

stickthekettleon Sun 09-Jun-13 10:46:47

This man can never right the wrongs your father did. You a) expect this as it replicates your childhood and b) think you deserve it. You have no closure from your childhood and a lot of unresolved issues and unanswered questions around that. You're looking to make this man love you to remedy the love you didn't receive from your father as a child.

I understand something of this and empathise. What you have to try and do is separate other people's failings (your father's and your partner's) from yourself. People are who they are. Whatever you do. Your father was absent because of who he was, it was not your fault. But because he was your father and you were just a child you couldn't rationalise that or choose anything other than wanting and needing his love and acceptance. But now you're an adult. You don't need to do that anymore. You have insight to understand people's shortcomings and separate them from yourself.

Much love xx

waddlecakes Sun 09-Jun-13 11:54:09

thanks for replying everyone, you've really helped me see through the fog, especially undertone and stickthekettleon. About 2 hours after I got home yesterday, I received a text that said:

''Thank you so much for staying last night, it was very important to me. I hope you'll want to go to the lake with me tomorrow. xxx''

Just such a weird phrasing...''it was very important to me''.

Undertone Sun 09-Jun-13 12:05:09

No apology? No facing up to how terrible he made you feel?

Why does he think that the thing YOU will want to hear most is how important your support was to HIM?

He knows that you have placed his needs above your own. He is comfortable with that and is happy to praise you for it.

Please distance yourself and don't see him. He needs to give you time to think. It will be hard because he will want his emotional punching bag and crutch back - he will bombard you with affection and claims he didnt mean what he said and HE NEEDS YOU.

Push him away. Be strong for yourself, not others.

HalfSpamHalfBrisket Sun 09-Jun-13 12:09:54

You could continue to microanalyse evey text, utterance and action and see them as 'signs' that he loves you/doesn't love you/is changing/is not changing...

Or, you could begin to think about your own happiness, and perhaps get some counselling to really understand your motivations for staying in this situation, and hopefully work out a way to move on.

waddlecakes Sun 09-Jun-13 12:20:18

It's interesting you say 'crutch' undertone, because during our argument he said ''I can't keep using you as a crutch'', so he is obviously very self-aware. I think that makes it worse. But I don't understand how he's using me as a crutch, I'm simply patient, it's not like I actually solve any of his problems.

What someone said earlier really rang a bell...I can't expect him to end this and ''set me free'', because I don't think he ever will. I know he finds me extremely attractive, and I put up with his BS. What possible reason would he have for letting me go, when he can just keep me to satisfy his sexual needs, to listen to his self-analysis and when times are good, to enjoy spending time with? More likely is he does this shit because he enjoys the drama, as I told him myself, the push-pull thing is the only thing that fills his emotional void.

He constantly refers to me as a 'succubus', and when things go wrong in the bed department, he apologizes but then says when women are 'too aggressive' he finds it I'm just suppose to lie there and let him do his thing?!

Obviously I need to let this go. I can't without making some bigger changes in my overall life though. I need to start making a plan for getting back to the UK.

Leverette Sun 09-Jun-13 12:28:33


That's somewhat disturbing. Was he hospitalised with psychosis?

thenightsky Sun 09-Jun-13 12:28:45

Urgh. He sounds like a massive drama queen who wants all the attention focused on him. How utterly exhausting for you sad

waddlecakes Sun 09-Jun-13 12:29:59

Leverette, yes he was.

clam Sun 09-Jun-13 12:39:13

Sorry to sound harsh here, but I would get the hell out. It doesn't sound as though he is in a place that can cope with a relationship, or give you what you need/want so break it off. You can't rescue him - he has to work on himself and I don't see why he should use you as an emotional punchbag while he does so.

chipmonkey Sun 09-Jun-13 12:49:43

When he says he finds it difficult when women are "too aggressive" he actually means he doesn't like when women stand up for themselves. You can't fix him and in fact you are just repeating the pattern your mother created with your father and look how that turned out! Where does your happiness figure in all this?

Mumsyblouse Sun 09-Jun-13 12:56:17

I think you can feel sorry for someone and wish them the best whilst getting the hell out of there to protect yourself emotionally. He told you the truth really, which is that he's too self-absorbed to properly love you or put his needs first. Only you can decide to walk away from this, I would, however much you love him; it's highly destructive for you and it won't benefit him,

TondelayoSchwarzkopf Sun 09-Jun-13 12:58:05

Delete his text, delete his number, do not go to the lake tomorrow and instead make plans for relocating back to the UK.

Undertone Sun 09-Jun-13 12:59:58

Ok - the other side of this - we can easily guess his motivation for keeping you glued to him.

What, deep down, do you think the reasons are that you were attracted to and sustained an emotionally exhausting relationship with a man who:

- is emotionally cruel ('don't give a fuck about your feelings')
- is emotionally unfaithful (maintaining connection with Norway woman)
- is sexually dysfunctional (PE and blaming you for it - never mind the whole using your body thing)
- is lazy and demotivated (gp calling him on it sends him into a sulk)
- is irresponsible and entitled (expecting people to let him sofa surf, quitting job after 2 days - what a knob)

Selfish. Self absorbed. Willing to sleep with you but not take any care or responsibility for your feelings. What made you love this man?

Do you think subconsciously you don't deserve proper love, from someone who is able to give it? Do you think that the man described above is what you deserve?

Follows a train of thought from a book chapter i read recently where it questions whether women who have bad luck with crappy boyfriends DO suffer bad luck or in fact they are repeatedly choosing unavailable and lacklustre candidates for themselves, to avoid a Big Scary Real Relationship.

I am one of these women. I'm flying solo now until i have my head sorted. People who don't know me well often rather insensitively ask why i haven't got a boyfriend ('you're lovely!' etc gah). I can't choose well for myself and m vulnerable to emotional vampire drama llamas, mindfuckers, serial cheaters and other broken toys. I love them all to pieces and they use me horribly. So now it's me and my sports bra and trainers, work, my beautiful flat, my friends, and positive thinking. The next chap to cross my path needs to be fucking spectacular, frankly, for me to give this up.

SomewhereBeyondTheSea Sun 09-Jun-13 13:00:33

Right, think practical. What does it need for you to get back to the UK? Make a list. What can you be getting in with ASAP?
You've seen the way ahead. Now act on it.

Leverette Sun 09-Jun-13 13:01:33

Please prioritise yourself, your well being, stability and safety. This man is harmful to all of those. It is very painful to walk away from someone you love - I know, I've done it - but you're in an awful dance that is only harming you and entangling you further with damaging abnormality. For his own reasons, he is just not available/capable of being one half of a functioning, healthy couple. That's no reflection at all on you and you can't say you haven't tried!

thenightsky Sun 09-Jun-13 13:02:14

undertone Fabulous post!

SomewhereBeyondTheSea Sun 09-Jun-13 13:02:57

PS. Undertone, you sound exactly like me :-)

MatersMate Sun 09-Jun-13 13:05:19

Brilliant post undertone glad you're happy to give yourself some time, many rarely do!

Please leave OP, this will go on and on and on...I think you know this.

JustinBsMum Sun 09-Jun-13 13:06:37

waddlecakes can I point out something important here --- we are all only on this planet once, yes, ONCE, we do not get a rerun, we do not get to relive our teens or twenties again, no it is a one chance event.

Plus our time on this planet passes pretty quickly.

So, keeping this in mind, do not waste another minute on this unpleasant man.

Get some books on self-help as you sound as if you have issues from not having your father in your life.

CalamityKate Sun 09-Jun-13 13:06:59

He's a self obsessed weirdo whos crap in bed and makes you unhappy. FGS get rid. It doesn't matter how much you luuuuuuurve him. Get rid anyway.

waddlecakes Tue 18-Jun-13 20:05:38


Just dropping in again because I feel so shit, I'm veering between hysterical crying and feeling completely dead inside.

This evening he called me to go to the lake with him. He's started a new job, and didn't tell me he was working this eve, so I essentially hauled myself out there thinking we were going to spend the evening together (1 hour each way) when in fact we were only there for an hour.

Everything's been as usual - him ranting on and on about his past and his future and how he doesn't know what to do with himself, he can't seem to connect to anyone and feels a massive void in his life, how he's going to have to quit this job at some point, etc.

I start swimming, and there's nothing, not a kiss, not a how are you, nothing, as usual he's unable to actually converse with me, it goes straight to him, his problems, etc. Almost zero physical contact, and I really miss it.

We sat by the lake and had a beer, that's when he dropped the ''I have to work this eve'' bombshell, although fair enough really, maybe I'm making a big deal out of it. He carries on musing about his life. Then he says we need to go because he needs to get to work. Just then, three people walk by - acquaintances of his. He jumps up and is all smiley, there's a woman who's pregnant which he seems enthralled by - then he strokes her head affectionately.

I pack up my things and start walking. I just walk straight through the field until I hit the main road, feeling a combination of anger and hurt. How come acquaintances get smiles and questions about their life and affection? Why? WHY?! Why not me?

He took a short cut apparently, and there he is walking along with one of the guys. He calls out to me, I just ignore him. He calls a few times, I just blank him I'm so angry. He catches up with me and asks what the problem is. I say I never want to see him again. He asks why, I say because you don't give a shit about me. He asks what would make me think that.

We walk along in silence for a few minutes, I tell him to leave me alone, he carries on walking, then he says he has to get the tram, he's going to be late for work. I say fine, goodbye. And he asks if I'm just going to leave, just ''like that''. I said I didn't see why not, considering we met ''just like that''.

He gets the tram.

I start crying.

Now half an hour later, like a fucking dickhead, I send a text saying: ''I'm sorry. I was just hurt.''

What the hell is wrong with me.

Lavenderhoney Tue 18-Jun-13 20:15:09

I don't know why you are doing this to yourself. Its not going to work. Tell yourself you are a nice person and don't deserve it.

I think he met you there to finish with you, sorry. You going swimming and then meeting others by chance stopped it, and he had to go anyway.

Sounds harsh, but be the one to stop it. Why go back for more of the same?

You've have lots of advice to finish it, I think you should take it, and start planning a new start.

wordyBird Tue 18-Jun-13 20:18:21

Nothing wrong with you, waddle. You're just a normal, loving person looking for a normal, loving response from your partner... and not getting it. He can't and won't give it to you.

But you've seen through it and taken action. This is GOOD, ok? Though it feels awful, horrible at the moment, it will go.

Don't worry about the text: that's just what loving people do, because they cannot help caring. Keep going. It's time to make the break, you're a strong woman and you can do it.

waddlecakes Tue 18-Jun-13 20:27:51

Thanks wordy, I'm trying. It would help if I had a bit more enthusiasm for my life in general but like I said up thread I'm at a bit of a crossroads in my life at the moment and have gotten myself into sort of a slump.

Lavendar I don't think he wanted to finish it this eve because he was talking about how we wanted to go away together in August, making plans etc. It's baffling, I don't know what he wants from me.

oracleselfservice Tue 18-Jun-13 20:48:15

It doesn't really matter does it. This is a horrible relationship with a complete loser who has no prospects, is totally self absorbed and has nothing to offer you. And he knows this which is why he plays mind games to keep you on a string - its the only way he can keep a woman interested. He isn't even good in bed for fucks sake. The guy is a twat. Do yourself a favour, get some self respect and move on.

spondulix Tue 18-Jun-13 21:19:37

Why are you doing this to yourself? He has no respect or love for you. And it's been less than a year! You shouldn't be facing these problems so early on in the relationship, you should be giddy!

Imagine what your life with him will be like in five years ... ten. Imagine children with this self centred man. Sounds like a nightmare, doesn't it?

DragonsAreReal Tue 18-Jun-13 21:25:31

Relationships are supposed to make you happier not drag you down, if this was true love he would put your happiness and your life and needs at least on par with yours if not higher.

He sounds like a big baby.

waddlecakes Tue 18-Jun-13 21:56:35

Now I just can't help but think, he's in a really bad place and seemingly (to him) out of nowhere I blow up at him and drop this bombshell. Maybe I should call him, I feel like I've done something mean.

tribpot Tue 18-Jun-13 22:03:49

Yes, good idea. Call him - feed the drama. Did you see Undertone's post above? Mental health issues or not, he is an emotional vampire.

Free yourself from this endless merry-go-round of agony and ecstasy. It isn't real - it's just two vulnerable people who don't know when to let go. As the less vulnerable individual, it's your job to [wo]man up and end this.

Finola1step Tue 18-Jun-13 22:15:24

Good grief. Go back to him. Let him continue treating you like shit.

Or, you could stop this drama fest and dump him for good.

Sorry to be harsh but, you need to hear it. Your friends in RL need a flipping good shake for not telling you straight.

He sounds just like an ex of mine from way back. I dumped him after 7 months and countless 3am phone calls "needing to talk". Best thing I ever did. He didn't commit suicide, fall apart etc. he just went on to the next one.

Your choice.

Inertia Tue 18-Jun-13 22:20:38

You are not his saviour.

You are not (from what I've read of the thread) a qualified mental health practitioner with the specialist skills needed to help this man deal with his mental health issues.

You're not responsible for his well-being. He is an adult with recognised mental health problems and (presumably) several points of contact if he does need help.

You're not a sex doll to be dragged into bedrooms for his relief and then harangued for his perceived sexual inadequacy.

You're not his slave, to be kept captive because he refuses to let you leave.

You're not his emotional punchbag, to be blamed for everything he thinks is wrong with his life.

But that's what he wants from you, because that's what he currently gets from you.

The early months of a relationship are meant to be dizzy giddy fun. It doesn't sound like much fun for you. And no relationship should ever involve a woman being pressured for sex in a situation that frightens her.

MadBusLady Tue 18-Jun-13 22:56:21

Please stop tying yourself up in knots over what he wants, what he thinks, what his opinion of all this drama is. What he wants is very simple. He just wants you to be totally headfucked and focussed on his drama. He doesn't secretly really deep down want a nice loving relationship with you. He wants exactly what he's currently getting.

What do YOU want from all this? Because if it's a nice loving relationship with a man who doesn't play mind games and has conversations with you about things other than his own fucking navel, this one ain't going to give you it. Ever.

You call him now, you'll be writing this thread again in three months. Then six months after that. Then a year later. Then five years on, and before you know it you'll have devoted a substantial part of your life to feeling like shit.

Unless/until he dumps you and goes on to the next magical woman/sex doll/non-person and "falls under their spell" instead, of course.

waddlecakes Tue 18-Jun-13 23:01:59

But as stupid as it sounds, I can see something in him...

MadBusLady Tue 18-Jun-13 23:05:43

Yes, it does sound stupid. Sorry. smile brew

EldritchCleavage Tue 18-Jun-13 23:06:44

He uses you, and appears to dislike you. He can be awful to you and in the very next moment, incredibly nice to other people. He calls you a succubus and blames you for his sexual dysfunction. The next stage of this relationship could well involve him being violent to you.

Just let this go, and move on with your life.

MadBusLady Tue 18-Jun-13 23:08:29

Oh god, I'd forgotten the succubus thing. Seriously, OP, get shot. He is properly, creepily weird.

Undertone Tue 18-Jun-13 23:14:53

Waddle. No one is going to agree that you should sustain contact with this man.

No one.

All we know of him is how you have described him. We have an objective view, and it really is that straightforward.

I know it's unendurably alluring to imagine there's more to him than just his selfishness and turmoil - that YOU ALONE can see the amazing person inside. It's a self defensive fantasy. Your brain is trying to justify why you have made all this effort and created all these hopes. Don't project something that is just not there.

Do NOT scurry to him and try to talk about it. He hasn't, so why should you? Start to act like an equal in this dynamic. Stop making any effort and plan your independence.

tribpot Tue 18-Jun-13 23:23:50

Total rescuer fantasy. I'm sorry. You really want to believe that he can be redeemed, and that you can do it, and that thus shall your love be proved righteous.

This is bollocks. And Eldritch is right, he is potentially escalating beyond emotional abuse.

Rescue yourself - you deserve it more.

Finola1step Tue 18-Jun-13 23:26:24

He is dangerous. Get out now.

Or alternatively, keep playing the fantasy in your head.

waddlecakes Tue 18-Jun-13 23:31:27

But there must be more to him. He's constantly surrounded by people, always on the phone, out, etc.

Maybe it's just a problem with women.

Although one of his mates told me that she never felt truly comfortable around him, because he never asked her anything and always wanted to talk about himself and sometimes she feels 'on edge' around him. She also told me that he ''turned one of his [male] friends crazy"....

So I don't get it, it's obviously not just me who's drawn to him like this

waddlecakes Tue 18-Jun-13 23:32:26

How are you all making this leap to it potentially becoming violent?!

Lavenderhoney Wed 19-Jun-13 05:24:04

No matter how much you take all this crap from him he will never change and you cannot make someone love you and be nice with you.

There are millions of men in world, why pick one who makes you this miserable?

And you make him miserable too I expect, he is doing his best to make you go as he doesn't have the balls to do it himself. Maybe he is worried about what you might do and he doesn't need the stress on top of his other issues. Do him and you a favour and leave him alone.

There really isn't more to him. He is what and who he is. Please stop trying to make hi. Something he is not. You are torturing yourself.


Have had depression very badly in the past. Still managed not to treat my friends/family/partner like shit, waffle on about my 'issues' and ignore theirs (even if I felt like doing that because as an illness it does make you a bit of a naval gazer) or purposely mess people around.

You know he's self aware. He's playing you like a fiddle. He knows you're kind so seems to be playing the sympathy card tbh.

He also sounds very passive aggressive. (i.e The Succubus comment was a passive aggressive way of saying don't be so dominant during sex & you've mentioned a few more).

He will not change and The longer you're together the more confused & hurt you will feel.

It is very possible to meet a straight forward man who will treat you like you deserve to be treated & from the outside it looks like even just being single would be better than this.

Good sounds like he's established quite a grip on you hmm thanks

(I mean this in a helpful way but have you thought about why you might be carrying this on & torturing yourself? You seem to know this is wrong and keep nearly walking but then go back. Do you like the drama? Are you scared of making it final? Is he playing on your rejection issues?)

Inertia Wed 19-Jun-13 06:56:55

In your OP, you say that he tried to drag you into the bedroom for sex in an aggressive manner, and say that he refused to let you leave. He admits to not caring about your feelings. He blames you for his sexual performance and calls you a succubus. His mental health problems include psychosis. That's why people are making the link to possible violence.

I'm certainly not qualified to judge how much of this behaviour is related to MH, and how much of it is just down to him being a controlling, self-absorbed, abusive prick. But it's not a great leap for people like this to turn violent.

You've got one life. Why choose to spend it unhappily with someone who doesn't actually like you and just uses you for sex ?

flippinada Wed 19-Jun-13 07:00:21

What OrchardKeeper said. Mental health problems aren't a free pass to abuse someone, and that's what he's doing to you, make no mistake about that. He sources extremely manipulative and self centred. Now that may be part of his illness - if it is, you can't fix it for him and if it isn't, he's just a self centred, manipulative twat.

Get rid of this man and maybe think about getting some therapy/counseling for yourself or at least be on your own for a while afterwards.

By the way, the reason people think he may turn violent is because you've said yourself in your op that he shows violent tendencies. He tried to force you into having sex with him.

Fairygen Wed 19-Jun-13 07:13:53

He's obviously using his mental health issues as an excuse to treat you like crap! He's using you, and you're letting him.

Is it that in some way you are drawn to the drama of the situation?

I've been in a similar situation, periods of normality and then being dropped because he was in a 'dark place' ( his words, not mine). This resulted in me pandering to him. Lots of hand holding, changing my plans to suit him etc.

After a few months, I had to cancel a date because my dd was ill. He went nuts, saying I'd let him down, let my dd wind me round her little finger etc, then started laying into my parenting skills. Needless to say, that was the last time I spoke to him.

Looking back, I think what a idiot I was! I'm not sure if he truly suffered from depression, or used it for sympathy. One thing I am sure of is that he was a controlling, selfish asshole!

Do yourself a favour and stay away.

(also, you may love him or feel that you do but he does not love you. Not in the usual sense of the word anyway. Staying in a situation like that will make you feel worthless as you are giving 100x more than you are receiving and being shortchanged basically).

waddlecakes Wed 19-Jun-13 08:11:38

Thank you so much everyone for helping me talk through this, I know from having been on the other side that it's really frustrating when something seems so blatantly toxic/wrong yet the woman seems to be sticking around, going in circles, and you're sitting there ripping your hair out, saying for the 50th time: ''Just get out of there, FFS!!!'' Hope you don't mind me writing to you as a group - it's because you're all pretty unanimous in what you're saying!

I'm beginning to feel myself get some emotional distance from him. A few days ago I found myself with him one night thinking: '''re starting to bore me''. This might not sound like much, but I'd been so infatuated with him up until then, and he just seemed so glamorous and 'tortured', it came as something of a revelation to realise there wasn't actually much there, behind all the soul-searching and hand-wringing.

I can see how I got myself into this mess and why I'm still here pretty clearly. There's a lot of issues that have combined in this one person and period.

There's the Dad thing. I feel really sick thinking about it, but I can't emphasize just how much he is like my father. It's scary, it's almost the same person. I'm assuming a part of me is just desperate to understand the mentality and not feel the same rejection again. Obviously I know this is neither healthy nor feasible and should get some counselling about it perhaps.

There's the other issue of me needing him at the moment. He wouldn't know it and I would never tell him, but I need him right now. Why? Well, I just finished up the very last step in my professional training. For the first time, I am now facing the rest of my life as a sort of open road, whereas previously there had always been educational 'mile stones' to be reached. Basically it's like I am entering a new phase in my life, a non-student phase, where I need to think about how I want my life to play out. One thing that features in this plan is my desire to move back to the UK. For some background info, although I'm British I've only spent 6 years in the UK (moving around as a kid and then an adult) so moving back is something of a big deal to me. It also comes with a touch of sadness because although I know I want to move back and should do so, leaving this country (which has become something of an adopted homeland for me) will be a little heart-wrenching, even though I know I can always come back. I'm not explaining it very well but hopefully you can see what I'm getting at - I'm already projecting myself into the future, and he will be my last memory of this place.
As I mentioned in another post, because I so want to leave, I've sort of checked out of here. I see my friends and get on with my work, but my heart's not in it. This ''relationship'' is important to me, pathetically, because I need it to feel that staying around here for the next few months while I get some money saved for my move, is worth it. It's the only thing I have here right now that inspires some, ANY, kind of emotion. In a way, I suppose I'm using him as much as he's using me. I wonder if he can pick up on that, and I wonder if it actually makes me any better than him in this situation.

The final issue is that I should mention that I have had mental health issues myself, namely ''cyclothemia'' which a doctor diagnosed me with years ago but I never followed up on it, and from reading around the subject I also seem to match the BPD profile on a lot of levels. Obviously I also have some abandonment issues. I do think a part of me actively seeks out these situations. I wonder if secretly, deep down, I wouldn't be as interested if he were fully available. I wonder if things magically got better would I still want him as much. Also I think he suspects that, although perhaps not in the way you'd think. His mother had major issues. She was a lot older when she had him and would stay in bed all day, send him as a kid to go and do the food shopping, if he fell down in the street she'd just stand there giggling nervously and other mothers had to help pick him up, etc so maybe that's where his issues come from. Maybe he thinks of women as untrustworthy now. I know I can't fix that, nor is it my job. A few months into the relationship he said quite a few times: 'I'm scared I'm going to bore you'. As someone said up thread, I think a lot of the fucking around, pulling strings etc are to act as a smokescreen for not much substance. But for me as well, perhaps you're right and I do need the drama for it to feel worthwhile. Maybe I've learnt to associate drama with 'real love' somewhere along the way.

Sorry this is so long and self-centered, just needed to get it all down.

Back2Two Wed 19-Jun-13 09:34:15

So I don't get it, it's obviously not just me who's drawn to him like this

No, many people may get sucked into the abyss that is being in a relationship with him.

But you are someone who has the opportunity to get out. I see the "draw" of him as his web and him as the spider.

Seriously ..... Get out. Get away. Have fun.

NicknameTaken Wed 19-Jun-13 10:27:28

When people tell you what they're like, believe them.

Get away from him, and then work on your own issues re your father. I strongly suggest counselling, and the book "Women who love too much" is really insightful.

You can't fix him, and you can't fix your childhood through him. He is bad for you. You have a good reason to leave - come back to the UK and sort out your head. Your self-protection reactions need to kick in. Honestly, drop the Tortured Love Drama. It is not healthy or safe.

mrsfuzzy Wed 19-Jun-13 10:35:55

my ex husband was a chronic alcoholic, he was lovely on the odd time of being sober but for the best part a drama queen and general pain in the arse, he threatened suicide if i left him, i went anyway, and in time met a new man whom i am now very happily married to. my ex died of alcohol poisoning several years after i left, don't waste anymore time on him walk away, he needs help but you aren't the one to do it we must al be responsible for our own well being and happiness in life.

Wow, you have a lot of insight. That's fantastic. Use it! Take care if yourself. Get yourself back to the uk as soon as you can and be free of this nonsense.

Don't feel ashamed of being drawn to a man like your father. You have correctly identified that you are playing out issues that are unresolved with your father - it's very common. There is nothing wrong with you and it doesn't mean you have inappropriate feelings for him. You would benefit from therapy to work through it all though.

MadBusLady Wed 19-Jun-13 10:56:56

'''re starting to bore me'

Ooh, hang on to that thought! Contempt is the death of infatuation. Is there's anything mildly ridiculous about him? An item of clothing he looks a bit of a tit in? A silly sneeze? Focus on it for all you're worth!

Everything you say about your father and your own issues around drama etc makes a lot of sense. I think you know how to address those.

The thing that makes less sense is the needing him in the run up to your move. From what you say, you have checked out of everything good in this place, like friends and work, and the only thing you're still slightly checked into is the one thing that makes you feel like shit.

I think you have to ask yourself why you want your last memories of a place you've come to love to be about a tortuous, miserable "relationship" with this headfuck who doesn't even like you very much. You spoke about going swimming in a local lake the other evening. Well, that sounds idyllic. Were you appreciating it, taking in the scenery, enjoying the swim and having fun? No, you were locked in a miserable battle of emotional fuckwittery.

Even if you feel a bit adrift at the moment, which I can understand, isn't getting the money saved up for a move you really want to make a worthy enough goal in itself?

MadBusLady Wed 19-Jun-13 11:00:34

I just re-read that, and it sounds like I'm hectoring you. Sorry to have come across like that. I don't think you should really do a lot of self-punishment about why you are doing this, obviously, I just want you to break free and never have to think about any of it again. And then next week go to the lake by yourself, or with friends, and have a nice time.

waddlecakes Wed 19-Jun-13 11:15:33

No MadBusLady (great name, by the way), I don't feel hectored, you have been a great source of insight to me on this thread.

The sad thing is, I have always placed too much importance on romantic relationships, and have generally considered them the be-all and end-all of my existence, weirdly enough. Not that I forget the other aspets of life, but it's the central theme for me. I'm not sure whether this is common or not, but when you ask if saving enough money isn't enough, to me sadly it isn't. But I am starting to realize it's going to have to be in this interim period.

It's true that getting enough money and planning the move are helping me a lot though, it's pretty exciting. And I love some of the comments on this thread that go like: ''Get back to the UK....focus on coming back to the UK...''. I feel like you're all a collective Britannia calling to me in the wind from across the sea :D

MadBusLady Wed 19-Jun-13 11:37:11

The sad thing is, I have always placed too much importance on romantic relationships

Oh well, snap. grin I sometimes catch myself treading that line between legitimately holding that value and being enslaved to it. But I do think interim periods have to be treated a bit differently. It's annoying, I've been there, in limbo waiting for my life to restart either because of a geographical move or a professional change. But at least you know they are time-limited, and soon you can start pursuing your goals again. Hopefully with less of a fuckwit.

I was about to write something disparaging about British weather but in fact the sun has just come out, honest!

BananaRaces Wed 19-Jun-13 12:14:11

This guy sounds a lot like 2 of my ex's.

1 - My very first boyfriend, he was mildly schizophrenic. I stayed with him for over a year. Looking back I think the only reason I stayed with him so long was that I had very low self esteem at the time. I didn't like myself, thought he was the best I was going to be able to do, but most of all he was safe and comfortable. He never told me he loved me, and never really treated me as anything other than a friend-with-benefits and he really was great fun to be with some of the time. It was as though, because he didn't tell me he loved me, there was no danger of the relationship getting serious, so it was safe... He didn't love me, but I thought I didn't deserve to be loved. I was completely infatuated by him, but all the effort was on my side - like a two-person bicycle where only one of us was peddling. I put in all the effort and tried so hard to make the relationship work. He decided that when we went to University we should break up, so we did. It didn't occur to me that if he cared about me then he wouldn't want to break up just like that. I was really upset, he didn't seem to be at all. It was a very bad relationship, but I only realised how bad it was quite a while afterwards.

2 - The guy I was with before I met my husband, he had all sorts of MH issues. We were only together for a few months, but it was incredibly intense. He was the opposite of the first guy, over-commiting to the point of being smothering. He used to go between being incredibly caring, to being a total pain in the ass at a moments notice. For the last month or so of the relationship I knew I wanted out, but because of all his MH issues I felt that he was relying on me and that I would be letting him down, or abandoning him if we broke up. That I would be responsible for him breaking down. That although he treated me like crap a lot of the time, the person who showed through sometimes was a good person and that with me around supporting him, surely over time the good bits would increase and the crap decrease. Of course, that didn't happen. Well, things came to a head at a music festival and I tried to leave him, he got upset and I found that I couldn't bear to hurt him, so I said we should "take a break", rather than break up - such a cop out! I went off to see some other friends, when I came back to our tent later he was in my sleeping bag, having sex with a "friend" of mine! I said "well, I guess this IS a break up then" and spent the rest of the festival elsewhere! He then proceeded to phone me for the next 6 months, trying to get me to take him back, saying that he had only slept with her to make me jealous, so really it was my fault (WTF), that it was a symptom of his illness so I shouldn't hold it against him, and that he would harm himself if I didn't talk to him. By this stage I knew we shouldn't be together, but I kept talking to him in the hope that I could help him... In the end I had to change my phone number because it was messing with my head so much. He didn't harm himself and is now with someone else.

Neither of these relationships were healthy, and from what you've written here it doesn't sound as though yours is either. He's certainly not behaving like someone who loves you or has your best interests at heart. You deserve better than this, but us saying that won't make you believe it. The first year of your relationship should be the easiest bit of your time together. Whether or not what he's doing is due to MH issues, you need to decide whether this is a situation which is good for you. The bottom line is - Would you be happy in this relationship in 5 years time, if nothing changed?

Sorry for the essay... smile

EldritchCleavage Wed 19-Jun-13 12:17:42

But there must be more to him
Possibly, but I bet it's all unpleasant, and/or deeply tedious. And you don't even get good sex out if it. Take it from a 40-something married full-time worker mother with NO DOWNTIME WHATSOEVER, this is the time in your life to have fun romance, kindness, glamour and lots of lovely satisfying shagging. You aren't going to get that from Not-So-Sunny-Jim, are you?

Be positive, and think of yourself. Are you afraid of the changes coming up, despite having, on one level, embraced them? Because there is nothing like being embroiled with a fuckwit to take your mind off rather scary life events.

Hear the siren call of the Mumsnet knot of vipers and come 'home', make a fresh start.

You have a lot of insight. I suggest you use it! smile

Just because you have dad-issues, doesn't mean you have to let that dictate your life and just because you feel you need him for the start of this new phase in your life, doesn't mean you have to have him or cannot cope alone (being single is underrated!!).

It sounds like it will hit you soon anyway. Maybe this week, maybe next. But with all this in mind, he'll do/say one more stupid thing and it'll be the straw that broke the camel's back. Hopefully sooner rather than later!!

Also, you're entitled to think you're brilliant, love yourself and support yourself...whether someone else does too or not. Being single doesn't have to be horrible and in this case it's possible to feel much better about yourself by leaving the navel-gazing drama king smile

(and if he says 'are you going to just leave it like that'? Say 'YES' and enjoy the look of shock on his face when he realizes that you are no longer under his spell) grin

Inertia Wed 19-Jun-13 15:03:06

It looks as though you're beginning to look beyond this man and think rationally about a future without him, which is great.

Just to pick up your comment about him being your last memory of the place, and how you need him- it really doesn't have to be that way. You mention work and friends- can you build up the time spent at work to save faster, or plan more activities with the friends you have there? I don't know where you are, but you mention the lake- so I'm imagining somewhere with lots of beautiful outdoor spaces where you could walk or have camping trips. Wouldn't you prefer to build memories of laughing with friends around a campfire , rather than stuck indoors getting moaned at by a miserable git? Are there any interesting places to visit that you won't get the chance to see again?(Apologies if I've got the wrong idea about your location and you are actually in an industrial estate in Warsaw).

Beginning to make plans for the UK is a great idea- how about a book, or board on Pinterest to store your plans?

And if you come to the UK with a clear head and boyfriend out of your system , you may be more open to new experiences that lead to new friendships and possible relationships.

OnIlkelyMoorBahtat Mon 24-Jun-13 11:58:52

"I don't know what he wants from me." Who cares what this self absorbed bloke wants? What do YOU want from a relationship sweetheart? This? Obviously not. You can't change him, or control his actions. You can only control your own.

Poor love, I really feel for you. I have so been here = looking for the approbation of men who were not worth the time of day. You are obviously a very caring, thoughtful person - go give all your love to someone who deserves it, not this timewaster x

waddlecakes Mon 24-Jun-13 12:09:06

Well, since you resurrected the thread Ilkely...

Since the lake incident, he gave me total silence, although we had planned to do something Thursday, nothing happened. Silence.

There was a big event on Firday, I texted him to see what he was going to do for it and he replied: ''Nothing, I'm going to stay in my flat alone''.

I let it go, tried calling him on Saturday, he didn't respond.

Yesterday I went to where he works (not as stalkerish as it sounds, he constantly has people dropping in to see him, he has no boss to supervise him there).

So it's over. He finished it. Said he had been avoiding me because he didn't know how to approach it. Said you can't change people and that when he met me he had felt something strong and had done his best to be someone he wasn't. Said he felt like he was putting on an act, trying to be a good person when he isn't, he can't feel anything for anyone, sometimes all he feels is a void, or anger, even towards people who visibly love him. Said I had a lot of love to give and its wasted on someone who can;t give it back.

I felt surprisingly calm in the moment, obviously I accepted it, a part of me felt freed, because I wouldn't have had the strength to end it, and now I'm free to focus on getting to the UK and starting afresh.

But it doesn't take away from the fact that I felt so shocked he had planned to just... let the relationship fade away without closing it, had I not gone to see him. I hadn't expected him to be a coward.

And I feel a deep, deep sadness, welling up every five minutes today, I just feel such a sense of loss. I know he was a dickhead with issues, but still, I had hoped, and I had felt something strong for him and I'm really going to miss him. I just can't stop crying.

wordyBird Mon 24-Jun-13 17:35:14

Sorry to hear you're hurting so badly, waddles brew

Being discarded by a narcissist-type is unusually painful, and perhaps illogically so (eg, you were making the break yourself, so why does it hurt? No idea. It just does.) There is a book or website that describes it to a tee....can't place it right now.

I think it's the complete way you are dropped, with no preamble, and it's often done rather coldly.

It's unusual he was so honest with you though. People like this typically have very little self insight.

Cry it out, waddles. You'll be better soon...

MadBusLady Mon 24-Jun-13 17:56:38

Sorry it's come to this waddles. I think the way he planned to end it just underlines how little he cares about anyone else - a self-confessed narcissist, as wordy says. You can't project normal human feelings onto them.

OnIlkelyMoorBahtat Mon 24-Jun-13 21:03:46

Hi Waddles, sorry I hadn't noticed the date of your last post when I posted blush

Sorry this has happened, am really feeling for you, have been in this situation myself and it really sucks. I will tell you this now & I can well understand it if you can't believe me at the moment but you have had a lucky escape.

I think MadBusLady has it bang to rights: "You can't project normal human feelings onto them". Eventually it dawns on you that you were are the only one having the feelings in the relationship for both of you, they aren't having any - at least, they're not having any about you.

Take care of your self, hope you feel better soon x

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