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Am I being unreasonable to be falling in love in this situation?(343 Posts)
I am a bloke asking for advice. I am confused by the signals from a woman I have always fancied, but with whom we have set our relationship up as almost friends, but with a tension in it that just doesn't fit friendship. She is 15 years younger than me and I first met her when she was about 21. I liked her very much the first time we talked, but I was always very conscious of a professional relationship between us. We chatted away and got on about things that are rare for me to share with people. She is not the type who jumps into relationships - in fact she had a 6 year relationship with someone who seemed dramatically unlike the person one would expect her to be with (she is really interesting, into alternative music and dressing differently - he was Mr straight and dull) She is the type to talk a great deal about sex with me - certain things I would like to try, she would also like to try. I, of course, am desperate to do them with her, and yet she seems more generally interested. Try as I might to be sensitive about entering into physical contact, though, she seems to give me so few signals that I can never be sure whether she wants anything from me or not, but I am crazy about her. Partly I know this is down to my tendency to only really make a move on women when I am a few glasses down - whereas I think she sees being too drunk as a less genuine state and so that situation - of mutual inhibition loss - is less likely. I worried that the age gap was too much and so was always looking for signals from her. These seem to come partially - in the sense we talk online after long gaps of not seeing or speaking to each other - but not fully - in the sense that when we meet, I am dying to make physical contact/kiss etc, but we never do. I saw her for a weekend recently and she said beforehand that she would put me up in her living room. Perhaps I was being too gentlemanly but when we got back I said I was happy with that, but in reality I wanted desperately to spend the night in her bed with her - though I know getting it together with someone you really like as opposed to just vaguely fancy is always difficult and probably more so with this age gap.
Our relationship in between these meetings got a bit distant partly because of geographical distance, and partly because of lot of negative stuff in my life that meant I found it difficult to share. With her, I felt that the last things she needed was a friend with difficulties. I have noticed though that as soon as she split up with her long term boyfriend, she contacted me - but I was deep in family bereavement and unable to really connect with anyone.
In that interim time, to my sadness and yes, jealousy, I found that she had been dating someone older than me. This made me feel so sad, as it sort of suggested a. that age wasn't the issue I thought and b that perhaps our 'thing' had opened up the possibility of older men to her.
On our last meet-up - ostensibly as friends - when I look back, she asked me how many people I have slept with, we talked about how she wants a baby before she is 30, about where her career might go and about how my being in a good relationship could help me get what I want out of life - all things that on reflection sound so much like she wants me too that the lack of signals I can trust just confuses me more. I sometimes wonder if I have been spoilt by seeing women who are more confident about approaching men.
Anyway, the thing is that after our last weekend together I was both incredibly sad to be leaving her, but also elated. I finally realised that I was falling in love with her - or at least, I was finding it hard not to want to talk to her every five minutes - I have thought about her every day since. I kinda broke discipline and confessed to her that I fantasise about her sexually - partly because I know she has particular fantasies that we discussed - but partly because I think a conventional 'love' approach might be too uncomfortable for her - but secretly I have more fantasies like this than I do sexual ones. I think that through this, and some silly self-ridiculing boasting when we first met, she thinks me not serious. I suspect also that some of her male friends have warned her off me - but with their own agenda. I don't really know what advice I am looking for, but I can't work her out and perhaps you can help me? Of course, in the state I am in, not being able to work her out makes me giddy with even more appreciation for her - I've got it bad haven't I?!
Any advice seriously welcome.
She's playing games with you sweets, in my opinion. If she wanted a physical relationship with you, it would have happened by now.
Just console yourself with the fact that the fantasy very seldom matches the reality.
Good luck in finding someone who deserves that love and passion you have x
Hi Kitty, Thanks. There is another bit of the jigsaw though - a recent female friend who on reflection I suppose was a little too nice on occasion, confessed that in fact she had thought we were dating - or at least had a 'thing' even though we had never kissed.
I normally think the woman holds all the cards, so perhaps it is my own fault and not showing I am interested enough, but I went through a stage of being pushy and insistent, and tbh I don't want to do that anymore - am I being too romantic to assume that things only happen if people can't resist them happening??
I have usually shown 'interest' by being interested in opinions and conversations rather than the 'you look lovely' approach because I have always associated compliments with manipulative 'players' and this had been successful in the sense I have tended to have 'things' with women who i like as equals - but unsuccessful in that none of them seem to stick around, nor did I have 'the conversation' with any apart from a girl for whom 'the conversation' was 'lets have fun but stop if it gets serious.
It seems I come across as flaky and unreliable,and I am more of a 'woman's man' in the sense I like female company, trust women more than me, and tend to easily get on with women, where I don't so much with men (yes I am sometimes mistaken for gay), but really my deeper self is actually quite conventional about real love etc. I know this is not entirely relevant to this situation - but though I have had quite a few partners, I have only really had two or three people I have been in love with - in fact one thing buzzing round my head is that if this is a serious thing - or became one - in a lot of ways this would be my first serious relationship - it certainly the first I have felt this sure about my feelings in.
Perhaps you are right, perhaps I am projecting a fantasy version onto the situation because of the dual physical and emotional attraction - but tbh I wish I wasn't thinking about this - I think that feeling through it would have been a better approach?? oh dear no wonder I haven't had many strong emotional relationships!
What was the professional relationship between you and does it still exist?
Also I forget that she came out of a 6 year relationship six months ago - the last time I was in a kind of committed relationship it took me three years to get back to myself really... can people bounce back quicker?
Could that be the source of confusing signals?
No professional relationship doesn't exist. She was a client at a place I worked.
Just ask her out. I'm sure Dan Savage could suggest some choice words, fairly direct on the lines of: "you're a terrific friend and I'd hate to lose that, but I sometimes wonder if we could be more than friends. How about we give it a whirl? If you don't like the idea or it doesn't work out I promise not to mention it again and we'll go back to mates." Then if she says yes, it's dinner, a movie and maybe a kiss...
Are you maybe, subconsciously, pursuing inappropriate/unsuitable relationships due to fear of failing and getting hurt. You may be in love with the idea of being in love.
Talking from personal experience, I used to bounce from one relationship to another, going after guys that were wholly unsuitable for me because when it broke down, I could tell myself it was bound to happen (I did all the breaking up). I just liked the thrill of the chase.
When I did finally find my soulmate, it terrified me (and still does sometimes) to death. Commitment is frightening.
Oh. I sort of said something like that now you mention it - but I think I messed up! I said that I would like to tell her what I fantasised about, and I was so near to saying 'you and me in a good relationship' but I said 'you and me having sex' I messed up didn't I (can I blame it on a few drinks?!) oh no perhaps the opportunity went how can I wind that back?
I think I was and that this might be the soulmate - that's why I'm terrified..
Whoops! Well, they'll be no danger of her not knowing your intentions now ND, fark, don't know how you come back from that one unless you make some sort of joke out of it......perhaps saying that you were practicing your German.....'you and me having sex biers zusammen irgendwann' (you and me having 6 beers together sometime)
Let me get this straight- she was a client of yours? I hope you don't work as a therapist or something, because frankly, you are coming across as a bit of a creep. It's possible that she likes the attention, but I seriously doubt she will touch you with a bargepole unless she has a sackful of issues. Sorry.
Maybe keep the sex fantasy chat stuff to 0800 numbers next time.
How much older are you?
And I'm a bit confused, you've known her 15 years, since she was 21? But last time you met she talked about approaching 30? Has it been over 6 years since you saw her then?
Also, I find it odd the way you talk about her, you're falling in love yet you seem very fixated on having sex with her. Have you been in a relationship before?
that makes me sad, I don't want to be thought of as a creep nor do I think of myself as one fwiw I don't mind 'issues', nor do I think fantasy sex chat is something incompatible with a relationship. I am quite sad that I might be thought of in that way - do you really think so?
Yes- talking about sex fantasies with a much younger woman who you aren't dating is pretty much as inappropriate as it gets, I'm afraid. Especially as it sounds like you are pretty well-oiled when you do it.
Oh yes - that's what's confusing - I kind of wish I didn't fancy her so much physically because it gets in the way and makes me a bit tongue-tied when I am talking to her. I think its because I suppose that is what I am used to - well kissing rather than sex as such - using to show I really like someone - words always feel a bit false so I steer clear of seduction language or love language etc i don't know, I am just a bit at sea over all this and not sure how to behave. Perhaps I never have had a relationship as such before - perhaps they have all been 'things' and not deeper. I do feel incredibly out of control here and its unnerving but sort of thrilling as well.
Sorry, just re read op, my mistake about the age/length of friendship thing
ah BOF but she started it - yes I see what you mean it might come across as 'let me tell you what I'd like to do, child' .. but it wasn't like that.. well at least I hope not..in fact if anything it was kind of the other way around. I don't think she is entirely, if at all, a delicate flower type being sleazily bullied by an older man - in fact I am quite angry about that caricature - I am pretty sure that's what her male friends are using against me. I guess the thing is that with so many relationships being sexual first and emotional later I can't work out how to do it that way around without making an arse of myself - I suppose if she wanted a less committed relationship or friends only if I were clear I could wear it, but this is true torture!
I accept that caricature does hang around men it still hangs men more than women, but in this case I am definitely sure that its not virginal girl with evil man who knows about sex. I appreciate also that one of the strains in a relationship like this would be the ease at which vindictive people would paint it as that, but I am sure we would be over that eventually.
oh actually now I remember when I said it - I wasn't drunk and neither was she - it was in a cafe! Oh dear - I bet she thinks I am playing games by not trying to kiss her .. oh god relationships are awful! perhaps we are both just shy underneath all our front
Well you won't find a lot of virgins on mumsnet, but I still suspect that most women would find it inappropriate.
Perhaps your best bet is to knock the creepy sex talk on the head and be honest with her, like Meringue33 said.
Yes ok I agree with that - sex talk is perhaps OK if its after you've had sex and is about turning each other on? I think the weird thing is that she is using a 'now' model of massive awareness of sex and I am flitting between the two states of being aware I need to be very open about sex to fit in with her expectations and more closed to fit in with the age gap cliche.. <sigh>
This all sounds like a lot of awful hard work
What did she say when you mentioned you fantasised about her? And you said it in a cafe?????
A man asking women for 'dating' advice is like a woman asking men for fashion advice.
Anyway a 21 yo girl is most likely after the 'bad boy.'
If you like her then be direct with her, if she likes you back then good, if she doesn't at least you tried.
My head hurts now. Can you not just call her NOW and lay it on the line, something like 'I've tried all this new age shit, no, what about you familiarising yourself with my purple headed womb broom*'. FFS, stop pushing around. She's seen the sensitive side, now man up!
* you may want to use a less Roger Melly line
Womb broom?! I'm not going that far in! :-o
Purple headed womb broom ?
Bwah ha ha. Never heard that term.
erm, I don't think it'll work though...
I do agree though, OP. You need to stop faffing about and making yourself look like a sex starved nincompoop
Just ask her. Is it that difficult ?
Spluttered coke everywhere at womb broom. Bahahaha.
Op, what was your professional relationship? I think it could be relevant. I'm the same age as her.
Sounds like she is using you OR she just likes to pick you up as a friend when she gets lonely.
Purple headed womb broom!
Well I don't mind either of those - if I know! I would find it easier if I just fancied her for sex.. But I actually like her and don't want to cheapen it with the sex - oh ok I see where the new age piss take comes from... oh darn it why are women so complicated (or is it me who is. I can never tell!)..
Thanks for this btw I feel a lot less conflicted and am feeling a bit more lighthearted about the situation now.. thanks..
Tell us, though... what are these fantasies of which you speak?
No, you ain't complicated dude
I can't tell you those! They are private! nice try tricksters..;)
Please don't say "darn it"! We're all big enough to swear here.
I agree with AF; you are not complicated. You've met a much younger woman whom you fancy and enjoy talking about your sexual desires to. That's pretty normal behaviour for a lot of men.
You sound incredibly young (immature actually, sorry)
What's with the analysis paralysis? Then suddenly announcing in a cafe that you have sexual fantasys about her? And then forgetting where and how you had this conversation with her?
A bit weird
I'm sure I'm not alone by saying that we want an update (non too graphic though) if the heat-seeking moisture missile has met the target. If it makes you feel more comfortable, we can arrange a meeting in a
seedy classy caff to discuss ;-)
Yes it is a bit weird, I totally forget who I am and where I am when I am with her - that is one of the things i like about her, hours can pass and I can literally not notice. I didn't suddenly announce, like 'sugar.. oh <cough> wannafuckyou <cough> ..oh nothing' It was during a conversation about loads of things. I grant you if I were the same age as her a. it probably wouldn't have come up like that and b. I would have been trying to take her straight home, but as we have this slight distance in our relationship because of the history.. oh I wish I knew her female friends better - I have no real understanding of what she thinks a relationship is - I also have difficulties in that I am used to long friendships with women and not used to dating..
Yes I do feel immature in this - I am immature in relationships where I could be head over heels I get nervous and stammery unless there isn't a big cost in losing the relationship..
Oh Kitty, you are so cheapening this!
um but yes I would like to give updates - unless it goes wrong then I will go into hiding
Honestly, if you came across as you do online in real life I'd avoid you and would think you're more than a bit creepy.
I have a friend like you. He has had one girlfriend in 28 years that had lasted for 18 months. I recognise a lot of him in you. Are you him? How old are you?
I reckon he's 42 or 43.
Oh great! advice from someone who says that in real life they would avoid one of their own friends ;) nice one!
perhaps, cherhorowitz, you could be a better friend to your pal who just can't seem to get a relationship to stick - its not a nice place to be you know.
MLC combined with certain bizarre personality traits
Don't get bitchy now, OP
You have asked for comments on your situation. You might not like some of them.
It's not about getting a relationship to stick, it's about him creeping the shit out of women who barely know him or thought they had a strictly platonic friendship by saying he'd like to fuck them at random times and then talking about how he's just looking for a nice girl to fall in love with and how he's such an emotional person which is why he gets on so well with women etc. It smacks of creep to me and to every woman he's failed with and he knows it yet he just can't help himself.
A good friend would tell him where he's going wrong, right? Well slap a badge on me and call me Buddy.
You still haven't said what your relationship with her was. In what way was she a client where you worked?
btw not MLC more 'not started yet'. I have been trying for years to find someone I can relate to better that the usual crew of boring samey high street shoppers - for some reason I attract that type but I quickly tire of them - In fact I have just lost out in the numbers game - the really great women stayed friends, but had relationships with other people. I had a few relationships where I was unsatisfied professionally and didn't quite know how to share that pain without feeling like I wasn't able to give them the lifestyle they would have with someone more in their league, so I let them go rather than make them stay with me because i thought that would be miserable for them (it sort of happened to my mother) to be with someone resenting their place in the world.
With this woman, I get a feeling that nothing would matter if we were together - of course she could find a guy who could better help her realise her ambitions and I think in some ways she has been trying to do that, but what I can give her that the others can't is a feeling that she is fantastic as she is - the wealthier types that also are attracted to her leave her feeling like she is always wrong in who she is, what she believes etc etc. so I think on balance I am better for her.
Sadly I was the type who was perhaps too much 'if you love someone set them free' and that gave women I saw earlier in my life the feeling I didn't care perhaps - or perhaps they just did deserve better - we only have one life and I do tend to like exceptional women.. or perhaps they all feel exceptional to me. Anyway I want to be the person I am inside - the person who has a lifetime love with someone they feel close to, have kids with, have grandkids with etc its just that life, so far hasn't allowed that to happen - it makes me sad, but not a guaranteed sinister person and its actually quite upsetting that a few of you so quickly blame me like this
I think, OP that the answer to your thread title is YES.
YABU to "fall in love" in this situation because it just sounds as though it's not just the sexual aspect that you are imagining ....you are letting your imagination run away when there is very little evidence that she feels the same way as you. Of course, we can't always fall in love at the right time and with the right person...but I think (at your age) it would be smarter to find out exactly what IS going on instead of insisting to yourself that you are missing all the signs.
Maybe the signs just aren't there and you need to respect that. Not respecting that means that you are NOT her friend and you are acting creepily.
Just bloody ask her out! If she wants to go out with you, she will; if she does not, then she won't.
What romantic tomfoolery is this ?
A ha ha ha.
Do stop mooning around like some daffy teenager. You'll be quoting Keats next.
Man the fuck up, princess* and stop with all the faces. She quite rightly should give you a swerve.
I read this very differently, it clearly says in your post that she likes to talk about sex with you, so unless this is not true and all the talk comes from you, then I think the problem here is that you are the safe pair of hands, the guy who she loves having around likes flirting and discussing fantasies with, but perhaps isn't thinking of in romantic terms. Only you know how much she initiates these conversations, I cannot tell from your OP.
There's only one way to lance this boil, and that's to declare yourself. Very directly. Saying you want to have sex together is not that declaration, someone who I really felt I had an amazing bond with once said that to me and it killed my interest completely. You must must be very straightforward in this situation, ask her out to dinner, say you felt a complete idiot for what you said because you were hoping for a relationship. If she umms and ahhhs, doesn't seem keen but then carries on wanting a fun friend with whom to discuss fantasies and get ego strokes from, then move off from this situation, it's not great for either of you and you will not get a relationship anyway.
Get a grip. You are not being victimised or blamed for anything other than not clearly stating how you feel to this woman. You do sound rather needy and a little arrogant. You are not better than these "wealthier types". Not all people are the same and just because these people weren't right for her doesn't mean that you are or that one won't be in the future.
Surely if you were the perfect man for her and have been as close as you say to her she would have realised there could be something by now? You've openly told her you want to fuck her and still...nothing. It's not up to you to make the first move, you know, it's rather collaborative with both people offering something.
You also sound like you put women on a pedestal. It's all par for the course as some women like this and some don't but I'd really refrain from putting someone you openly told you want to fuck in a cafe who hasn't responded to you with equal gusto about your sexual session on a pedestal like this. You sound a little obsessed with a woman who is not on the same page.
Nobody is "blaming" you for being sinister.
We are actually giving you some useful honest feedback about where you are likely to be going wrong. There's no point beating about the bush with the wrong end of the stick, is there?
Can you clarify the service-client role (broadly)? I think it makes a difference.
You sound like a fantasist, tbh. Which is not a good prospect for a gal.
Get down to earth, stop all this hyper-emotional giff-gaff and ask her out. If she says yes, then try giving a real relationship a go. If she says no, stop building castles in the air.
To be honest, I don't hold out much hope for you. If she wanted to sleep with you, trust me, she would have done so by now. So all the signs are not right. But still, if it stops you being quite such a drooling imbecile, then that has to be good.
The form is, you have a couple of beers then lean in for a snog. Her reaction will tell you all you need to know.
That's not very gentlemanly !
These medium-rate burners are quite good value, I find
Notdead we are quite blunt round here and I have said the very same thing to many male friends- be up front, if hanging around hinting hasn't worked. This is standard female friend advice, don't get so arsey about it, it's the kick up the backside you need!
go for it.
mooning around like this is likely to end the friendship at some point so you might as well see if you're in with a chance.
she's probably wondering what the hell is wrong with her that you haven't made a move yet!
There are websites where you can send in a photo and get it made into a pillow. I know this is another level of creepy but I think the line may just be behind you and at least it'll keep you warm on those cold nights while you wait to die alone.
I'm kidding. A bit. I do think you need to have a good scratch of your balls and man up a bit though. You're making me depressed for this poor girl. Do you find she ignores your texts and calls for a little while before replying? [gin]
Think ^^ Mumsyblouse had it right.
When I was young and dumb and 21 I didn't talk about sex to guys I didn't want to go there with. So I reckon she does at least fancy you back, and is waiting for you to make the next move.
But I also reckon the relationship has no chance of success unless you (a) make that move (b) conquer the issue of low self esteem you seem to have. Seriously, everyone deserves a relationship, most women don't give a toss about professional success. Stop "letting them go", that's just an excuse to end it early because of your insecurities in case they end it later. You may wish to get counselling or something else to help you with this.
Maybe this is the girl for you ND ;-)
Also cherhorowitz I can spot the crap emotional bullying 'sign' of 'does she ignore texts and calls for a little while' - of course she does sometimes, we are both busy professionals not sitting around twirling the phone cord!
Shame on you for implying a delay means she hates me! That's cheerleader stuff!
cher is trying to help you, don't be so prickly
Hates you? You are a little emotive here and projecting a little. Nobody said she hated you but she may need to psych herself up for a long conversation with you. Do you usually converse about sex, emotional things or professional and day to day things? It's all very telling as to whether she actually likes you or not.
I'm sure there's a delay in texts due to work but when you're free I'm sure you text right back. Does she? That is all I meant.
You've told her your fantasy of her and you having sex. TMI but, thats enough to give someone a hint. If she hasnt responded its probably because she feels a bit creeped out.
You come across as a bit needy and desperate for her attension, traits usually unnatractive to women.
If you wanted to give it one last try, wheres the harm in asking her out for a dinner date or something? If you get your feelings hurt, so be it, but at least you will know. Life is too short to be playing these games and feeling miserable while doing it.
And if it doesnt work out, chin up, plenty more fish in the sea!
Send her flowers with an invite to dinner. Stop all the shite and just get on with it. She fancies you too!
You sound like you're being a bit of a "feathery stroker" and, in general women don't go for this type of approach/ man
One word of advice from me. Do NOT be a feathery stroker. You are more likely to get a black eye than a blow job!
Feathery strokery fuckwittery is just plain old, celibate, non fuckery. IMHO
Ok, ok, WTF is a feathery stroker??!
NotDead you need to clarify what your professional/client relationship was, I think, as BOF says.
You could ask her directly if she would like to go out with you.
From the content of your posts it would seem you have created a fantasy world around each interaction, imagining what she was thinking rather than asking her - that is not an attractive trait.
From the tone of your latter posts it seems you have difficulty responding when the reality differ from your fantasies - becoming prickly as said upthread, imo when you are not being told what you want to hear.
I don't think she is interested but the only way to know is to ask. Just be prepared and polite if you are turned down.
Kitty this is from the urban dictionary:
The expression "Feathery Stroker" comes from Marian Keys' book "Anybody out there", where one of the main character's friends tell her about a man that instead of ripping her clothes of, he lay there stroking her carefully as if he was stroking a feather. Her friend on the other hand, experienced it as one of the worst days of her life.
Jaqueline: Ugh, I just had the worst night ever.
Jaqueline: I met a Feathery Stroker.
Anna: Really? What happened?
Jaquelina: He was just laying there in my bed, stroking me like a fragile feather, while I was waiting for him to tear my clothes off and fuck me.
Anna: Oh lord, I'm so sorry.
Rolling at feathery stroker .
SacreBlue is spot on. You are fantasising what you want her to be doing or thinking rather than asking her outright and this isn't attractive. She knows what she wants, she knows what she finds attractive and if you can't ask her outright there's no hope in hell of a relationship. Treading around the situation isn't going to make things better or worse.
I really really hope this isn't a care professional and client relationship.
Waaaaaaahahaha!!! Fantastic B2T! Fark me, we've all been privy to a poncy feather stroker before, I think! Class! Yep, ND, being a feather stroker is not going win the heart of the fair maiden. Turn up at her flat, bottle of champagne and demand a champagne blowjob! Take charge of the situation!
Feather stroker <chortle>
I want a champagne blow job. It's a shame I don't have a dick. If you're not using yours OP, can I borrow it?
That was mean. Wine on a school night should be banned. I'm sorry.
I think it has the same effect on the mouses ear cherhorowitz (so I've read in, errrrrrm, Take a Break)
Feathery strokers need fucking shooting. < gavel >
OP, if Princess TippyToes turns you down, don't call her a bastard will you ?
cher, do I know you under moniker, m'dear ?
I like the cut if your jib
I am not moniker but I wish I was. I bet she has a better body than me, the bitch.
I am a long time lurker, some time poster who recently NC'd because I felt a bit of a 90's revival after getting
pissed up pleasantly tipsy at the weekend and finding myself on the bad side of YouTube (teen comedies).
I very rarely comment on here, mainly because I think there are much better qualified people for the job....
but good grief!
That is all
I am none the wiser cher, but welcome to Posterdom
I'm expecting there to be a Postergate with outing and nipples and things
DO NOT GIVE NOR ASK FOR A CHAMPAGNE BLOWJOB!
(someone on here recommended that as something lovely n' sexy and I decided to give one to DH as a nice surprise. Hah! He screamed, recoiled and asked me why I hated him so much I'd dip his manhood in battery acid...)
Rather more germanely, why haven't you answered BOF's question, OP? What was the nature of your client/service relationship?
Yes, the champagne is not a good idea, despite anything Cosmo might tell impressionable young women. Neither will mouthwash give him "a refreshing minty zing". It will end in a trip to casualty with bits of his knob peeling off.
Can I also advise against anything you may see on the Internet called 'Pussy Cream'. It intimates nice frothiness and creaminess, where actually it means sitting in an ice cold bath for 2 hours lapping water into deep crevices of the chuff.
Also, Deep Heat is a no no.
An ex boyfriend of mine once showered with tea tree oil shampoo as I'd run out of shower gel. That was an experience to be heard. He deserved it, the tosser, even if it was a bit premature for his wankeriness.
Back to the point OP, WHAT WAS THE NATURE OF YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR CLIENT. WERE YOU HER PIMP? GRAPHIC DESIGNER? DOCTOR? (Please say you weren't her damn doctor).
Also, 'av ya called her yet? Recordings or it didn't happen.
I think he was her teacher.
Deny, or it's TRUE
You strike me as the kind of scholarly chap who erases what he wrote down the board with his hips as he writes up top.
Nah AnyFucker he was her Prof. I have a tenner on it.
Still laughing at 'Feathery Stroker' probably always will
What do you reckon Charmer is doing right now? Do you think he's got the MN app and is watching us all plotting his revenge while simultaneously texting Princess Twinkletoes about how he's just heard of a champagne blow job and would that be something she's interested in?
Bet he's writing angsty hatemail to the poor wealthy sods just that aren't good enough for PT with a pro's and con's list of all the reasons why he's so much better for her and their fantasy healthy relationship. He supports her dreams and ambition like they never will. <grump>
The fantasist in me wants to believe he's manned up, put his dick in a wrapped box and they're now shagging furiously through the night.
Feverishly waiting on an update OP.
My DP is a "Feathery Stroker" He hardly ever gets laid.
I think I love this thread. Does that make me an awful high street harridan?
You can join me. I'll make us badges. Or pillows, depending on what you want.
Shaky, chain him to the bed. He can't feathery stroke you if the fucker can't touch you.
If you wanted to add the extra dynamic to your sexual tryst you could sing MC Hammer to him and bounce to the beat.
I can't stop thinking that this is why I'm single. Oh well. Wank pillow it is for me please.
I think the only thing ND is doing now is firing up some knuckle-children <sigh>. It was looking oh so positive or a while there......could've been a right fairy tale ending too.
When I think back of all the guys I've liked and would have said yes to, but nothing ever happened, its because one of the following has not happened:
- the man hasn't asked me out or made a move
- the man has made a move in an inappropriate setting (at work, in a car park, when drunk would also do it for me, if its someone I know who knows how to get in touch with me more appropriately)
- the man has faffed around for so long I've lost interest, particularly when theres long gaps between seeing him. You can't sustain interest indefinitely.
To expand, there are women who will make the first move on a man, but you cannot count on her being one of them. Personally I've never had to, and I don't think I would really respect a man who couldn't make the first move too much, although thats just personal preference.
As for the older man thing, I would hope that at least one of the advantages would be that they would have worked out how to kiss a woman and/or ask her out!
I think you faff around too much. As above, you need to man up. You are doing all this projecting ("fantasy" appears to be the word you use most often) and all this yearning, but anyone with any gumption would have simply laid their cards on the table by now and been very clear and obvious. Even with the way you write is so prevaricatory. Have you not even kissed her? If you have spent so much time together alone, she almost certainly thinks you are not interested/not serious/gay and in the closet/too much hassle.
Men who don't ask women out end up in the situation you are in. Its easily solved, but are you capable?
Look at LessMiss being all sensible.
Tenner on him writing angsty notes. He'll lie, of course, so I'll win.
I think Op is currently scraping off his third best blob of chewing gum from the headboard and popping it in his mouth
and reading "Flowers in the Attic" under the duvet with a torch
Cher I like your thinking. I may just do that and go and sleep in the conservatory
I must agree with the pedestal comment, I found a lot of "oh women want this and should have that" going on in your posts ND.
Don't make assumptions about what people want or need, the best way to find out that sort of stuff is to ask and then listen carefully to what the person says.
The best way to resolve this situation is to ask her out. If she says no, it might hurt a bit but it's got to be better than this limbo, right.
If she says yes, take her out, do something special but dont go in with any expectations, take the time to listen to her and her expectations and be honest with both her and yourself as to whether you think you are capable of fufililling them, not just for her happiness but also your own!
If she ums and ahs and is wishy washy with her answer, walk away, this most likely means she is a game player and best avoided.
While he is still chained to the bed. Obvs
I think that is a suitable punishment for a feathery stroker
I went out with one once. Eventually I snapped and screamed "just fucking shag me, for the love of Christ !"
it didn't last < sigh >
Grab yourself a while you're in there. Let him stew.
Maggie has some good advice OP, you should listen to her. You have to listen to what SHE wants not what YOU want of HER.
Don't scream at her OP. Please.
*Cher. Look at LessMiss being all sensible.
Tenner on him writing angsty notes. He'll lie, of course, so I'll win
On reading more (I usually only read the first page before posting) I agree with you all. Shit or get off the pot, OP. Or at least self-publish, and spare us all this.
Is "Feathery Stroker" an actual mumsnet term, along the lines of the wonderful "cocklodger" then?
Now I do believe the actual, technical term for the
condition is histrionic.
AF My dp is STILL a feathery stroker, despite spending a fortune on getting a conservatory.
shaky...there is only one thing for it....
Feathery stroker was a term credited to an author further up the thread. I do believe the author was Marian Keyes.
I think it's a term we should all clasp to our bosoms though, as I am sure we have all come across one at some point.
She can't LTB AF! THINK OF THE CHILDREN.
This thread took a wrong turn somewhere.
I am not letting a FS loose near my bosoms ever again
I think I just pissed on my onesie again
DP forgot to lock the back door before bed. We love six terraces gardens down from an exit and have 30ft walls on the other two sides but THAT'S NOT THE POINT. My problems are grater than all of your wanky feathery ones.
shaky, are you the onesie pisser ?
I don't blame you, tbh
Now, tell me about your problems.
I probably won't be able to help but I will try
AF I am very ashamed to say, " yes, I am a Mumsnetter and I pissedon my onesie"
I'm going to start using feather stroker as a generic term for a timewasty sort of man who can't kiss a woman or ask her out, but constantly hangs around, purporting to be suffering angst at the continuing lack of action.
AF, I'm afraid I am
PLEASE don't make me spend the rest of my life hiding on the pink side. [mortified face]
Hello, after reflecting I realise I am the sort of person who usually has women making the first move, well at least at the jumping on and snogging bit. I'd like to say its because I am nice, but its probably because I am creepy and intimidating enough without leaning in on poor unsuspecting virginal innocent women. Its no wonder I am bemused by this situation!
FWIW I am DEFINITELY not a feather stroker! That's just cheek - I mean I might be nice to a woman and stroke her hair or something but not BEFORE doing her.. if you are coaxing someone into doing you by stroking then its more like you are trying to hypnotise a chicken - and much as I like a woman bent over with her nose in the road, chicken hypnosis/eggsack fucking is not what I'm about at all.
I think perhaps there is a block between us that is worth me paying attention to, so I have decided that after telling her I fantasise about her sexually, and that I could see us together in a relationship too, that I will just leave it and see how eager she is to see me/meet me after that has been said.
She is still talking to me, so if we are long term pals it will be something to laugh at.. and if we start going out.. well it will also be something to laugh at.. my clumsy start at chatting up someone who already liked me by mentioning sex and not connection in another way.
In some ways she reminds me of a female friend I had earlier in my life who ended up with one of my friends - she did like me, and we did have sex with someone watching for a bit (just circumstances, not set up) at a sort of drunken in-the-flat-we-shared night. It turns out she liked me but thought me too wild for a sensible relationship <sigh>. Mind you it could have been true at the time. I was sad at her wedding but thought that she was at least with someone more likely to be content with the kind of life she wanted.
Oh well. I guess this is a 'sometimes you meet someone because they need you, sometimes you meet someone because you need them' - this has made me realise what I really like in a woman and that is a hell of a lot of sexual attraction as a priority, so there you go, a useful exercise if not necessarily one that will fix up the rest of my life. Would still like the family though, and ideally without making do but perhaps that's what will happen..
Thanks for your help and bitchy tomfoolery - at least I can be entertaining without mentioning anyone's 'Yoni'
I think I will, yes! Dammit its not showing up. where .
And what was your professional involvement with her?
What you purport to be like and some of the things you write on here are poles apart in a slightly scary way.
If you respect women so, so much ...why would you make comments like "and much as I like a woman bent over with her nose in the road" . One minute you're all "oh darn it..." I'm "bemused" and then you like to chuck in a few very abrupt references to "egg sack fucking" and how you choose to have sex for the first time when a potential partner when someone else is watching you.
Doesn't fit together.
The more you type, the weirder you get
The more he types, the less I understand ANYTHING. Is it me or do his sentences just not makes sense when strung together?
"Doing her". Ick.
Op. It is a Mumsnet requirement that you answer the questions! What was the professional relationship? My guess is mental health nurse...
I have come out of hiding to gasp at 'eggsack fucking'. What in the name of all that's good and true, is eggsack fucking? Actually, please don't' answer that. Dear fucking fuck!
I'm back and I'm confused. OP, did you phone your chum and ask her to bang you yet?
Patiently waiting and ever your fan,
Re: the 'client' thing - maybe he's a professional gigolo?
I hope he owns a pair of pleather pants.
Nose in the road? NOSE IN THE FUCKING ROAD?
So, this went well didn't it?
Hmmm.....perhaps a nice bite to eat first may put a rosy, romantic glow on proceedings......meat stick followed swiftly with dragon butter Sir......
look you lot I'm serious! this is a nightmare. . after many years of half relationships I've found a woman who I really can see a long term relationship withand its freaking me out!
btw I do tend to play up to the imagei think people sometimes have of me so sorry about the eggsac reference. I am trying to get my head round how one approaches these things. I suppose I have usually been sex first/early usually but with this woman part of me is straining at the leash to just dive on her and have sex with her- the other part of me wants to tell her how I feel about her, talk about the future- you know be a proper boyfriend to her. I just cant work this out at all!
thing is I know for siure that we are crazily sexually compatible and I dont think I have ever been this sure before with someone who hasnt made it clear they fancy me. Perhaps she is deliberately driving me crazy.. I am enjoying this constant tensionon, but I just dont know what to do whenyou are really into someone like this! any stories that might help v. welcome!
also dont wanna talk about prio relationship as too out-ing sorry.
Couple of things. Shit or get off the pot. And, you don't know you are sexually compatible. As with so many things about this relationship you are assuming. Based on talking a good game and your own
very rich fantasy life.
Also someone tried to kiss me tye other day and I tried to be nice and reciprocate but all I could think of is how it made me realise I wanted to be kissing x. Btw I know I give off an impression of being sex obsessed. I do like it you know.. but how does one give off sexy AND sensible vibes which I think she might like? ive tried dtressing like her and .. oh whoops again I am playing up perhaps I struggle to be honest about love and that is what she is picking up? Also do people usually get together with the person in their lives they had the most attractionfor or do women compromise for the most sensible option -less passion but less risk? I think that would sort of fit my exes a little but then I am biased..one or two looked so unsparky with the men they married. It made me sad but perhaps that is better
The teenage language would be a giveaway for out of school japes if it wasn't for
horrible experience of an advice worker for vulnerable women having similar views, expressions and actions asking those seeking advice on benefits out for a date anyone? No? How about getting vulnerable teenage mums to show you their intimate tattoos?
I reported that git to employers and local agencies to try to stop him ever having access to anyone vulnerable again, but you never know what pigs get through the system, or which employers won't give a damn about their clients.
Why have you not just CALLED her?
So presumably it's an ethically wrong relationship? Why else would it out you?
You've tried dressing like her? Distressing her? Stressing like her?
You make absolutely no sense, seem to have the emotional intelligence of an amba, and are almost certainly deeply unethical, or you would have admitted, even in broad terms, what your professional relationship with her was.
I think you need some therapy. Seriously. And stay away from women.
Oh my God I am having a stroke!
You sound fucking OBSESSED with yourself.
All this terrible missing the point analysis that leads you to think you are so so individual and different and not like others.
Answer the one important question - what was your initial relationship - do you in someway work in some whoo-therapy and met her through that?
Then ASK HER OUT OR GET OVER IT
You are seriously planning to - tell her first that you have sexual fantasies about her - then tell her you could imagine being in a relationship with her - then do FUCK ALL ELSE
You refuse to say "would you like to go on a date sometime?"
Because of course she should spend as many hours thinking about you as you plainly do, and just realise how perfect you are?
Agh my brain.
Hello. BOF thanks but I think you are protecting onto me quite a lot of you own negative ideas. I know you are trying to goad me into telling you something I have said clearly I won't say, but sadly..or reliably I am good at keeping my mouth shut if I feel it is better for the other actors in situatuons. Sorry but not telling you something that I doubt x would like me to tell you without checking with her is not an expression of 'certain unethicalness' as you rabidly try to imply.
You, as agroup, are suggesting that I should be upfront and that sits uncomfortably with me not because it isnt good advice but because either a. the dynamic that exists already isn't changing clearly enough to jump in both feet or b. there is something in my feelings for her that still needs processing before an open approach might be appropriate. or perhaps c. I know deep down that if we got together someone, probably me, could get very hurt. I can't afford to be as hurt as my last rel made me...but then weighing on that is my mantra that if the potential cost is so high..then this means its even more worth trying for.
Oh and as regards calling, she hates talking on the phone properly..more a post and text girl.. its worse tho because it can be re read etc! I'm a talky type but then I am just used to interactions wheras she is a bit (sexily) geeky.. hth thanks for advice
oh and I know I'm obsessed woth myself.. I am trying to be obsessed with someone else!
Oh, OP. She is sexily geeky because she doesn't like talking to you on the phone? Wise up.
If Princess Tippytoes reads this shed run a damn ass mile!
you want "stories" ?
why does that not surprise me...
I didn't say that! and stories...just meant examples..sheesh! Stop attacking me ! I was only asking!
I didn't say that! and stories...just meant examples..sheesh! Stop attacking me ! I was only asking!
What the bloody hell is this?!
I'm accused of being crazy and a fantasist when there are people like this posting?!
OP, you sound really creepy with your references to 'doing' women, amongst other things...who calls it that!?
I can also imagine the guy I posted about in my thread posting something like this...not cos this is the way he talks, but its just drew a few similarities to me..so I guess my 'issue' has been answered too by reading this thread!
Rambling. Sorry, it happens when I'm really fucking freaked out.
NotDead you've posted that twice :/
Were you in a position of authority over her, in any way?
It is really, really important. Not only ethically, which is your decision to make, but also in terms of how she sees you.
No not in position of authority no. In fact no ethical worries really, but it meant the dynamic was less clearly attraction as some interaction was professional. Its more like after spending time withher the penny has dropped that I have been slowly but unconsciously falling for her. Ijust want to freak her out about that if she's not in a similar place. Its not abnor is it?
This thread is freaking me out. Is she a prozzy/ lap dancer/ masseuse etc?
I agree with that! I'm actually surprised at how many negative scenario s /caricatures have been invented about me (and now her) throughout this!
But on the plus side, you've raised awareness to a lot of women to a very serious condition in men known as feathery stroker. Now I've realised this is more widespread than initially thought, we can come together and educate men to be hamfisted.
I encountered a feathery stroker at university. Grotesque. Quite put me off. I realised when the time finally came why he was putting his energies into stroking ...
I am wondering if the OP has not in fact ever had sex.
It's okay, OP. You can tell us.
Were you her driving instructor?
Were you her McDonald's server ?
I have had sex! and quit with the fantasies! I'm supposed to be falling in love not having your driving instructor/massuse/ therapist scnarios shoved in my face!
worried about the macdonalds server one! greasy!
Where you the janitor of her child's school?
*were ffs, not where!
Maybe you are just married to her sisters head teacher or something.
ASK HER OUT. NOW. BY TEXT .
can you tell magine the films if I were her media studies tutor! actually now you mention this I could see her in a dark stylish spooky short film.. like a cross between American Horror Story and a Joel Peter Whitkin picture.. anyway this is not helping! I need to de-pedestalise not think of new scenarios!!
Why don't you just hold her hand/see if she wants to kiss next time you are alone together. Maybe both of you are being coy. If she's not interested, at least you will know.
Maybe asking "Do you want to have a relationship with me?" is a bit unromantic and businesslike for you, so try a gentle gesture which can't be misunderstood.
I agree that the talk of sexual fantasies sounds a bit strange, but maybe it is some kind of flirtation you have stumbled into (giving you the benefit of the doubt here).
Thanks.. I think you are right.. it is a flirtation. Started as a conversation but got more intense as we are both quite.. imaginative.. I enjoy it but it is consuming me a bit I'm bad enough just making eye contact!
I would love to just hold her hand and kiss. I think we are both being coy.. I think perhaps she is intimidated by my age/percieved experience I am intimidated by how strongly I'm attracted to her and that might be 'freezing' us a little..
Occasionally on dates as friends she would move closer to me..but not so much as to be clear.. I guess I am quite touchy/feely but only after someone has taken the lead and should revise this if she is as unsure as I am.
When I had a thing with an older woman once I did feel that she should make the clearer moves.. but hers were 'drink more whisky' then 'do you like me I had to get drunk to ask'.
Problem is partly that we don't live in the same town..
No no thats not the problem at all.
The problem is you wrapping layers of bullshit around a simple attraction and inability to ask her out.
There is no problem here, a little bit of eye contact, does it linger, if so lean in for the smooch. What's all the agonising about?
I am crying with laughter. He tried dressing like her - can you imagine? I am weeping!
I LOVE it when men ask tortured questions about what WOMEN want - all us identical indistinguishable female units with our hive mind.
He was the receptionist in the GUM clinic she went to.
Oh Ffs, you're living in a fantasy world OP. Much as you want this woman to be a fantasy character from a book/movie she's not, she's a real person. All the other crap only exists in your head. You are using this thread as if you were in a therapy session. May I suggest you attend one for real.
So do you think I should not be feeling these things because they are in my head? is that really how feelings work?
The agonising is that its not that simple when you might be friends. .or perhaps it is? I suppose that is what I am wondering. WWhenever I have got off with friends its beem sort of sex only/ish but no fear of losing or gaining a romance that might mean something. Mores the pity I suppose because I list some of them as friends when the got boyfs.
I suppose I am only stuck because I cant laugh this off.. it would be obvious and I would be v hurt by rejection in this case. Oh well
That's life - take a risk.
I remember feeling like that in the school playground. If you're just asking her on a date (not to be her soul mate or bend her nose to the road or whatever lovely image you gave us earlier), the risk is not that high. Yeah you'll be embarrassed if she says no but you'll both get over it. Just do it OP.
"Stories to share" - may I suggest The Secret Diary of Adrian Mole aged 13 3/4? Not that it would help you in anyway with your 'problem' but it might help you gain an insight into how you come across. You sound like the sort of
knob person who would describe themselves as an intellectual .
In fact, is Princess Tippy toes name Pandora perchance?
oh. I would like to bend her nose to the road but in a supportive and understanding way natch. And a mat to stop nose/forehead chafes of course.. im not heartless!
I do like the insulting style of mumsnet. Its very laddy and quite comforting.
I am not 13 3/4 but I do feel a bit like it..only with a slightly bigger sexual imagination to call on. Yes you are generally correct I will ask her out. Dont worry I will do it in my own way...anonymous text from a friend saying I like her
no really I will.. soon when appropriate..thank you!
And update us afterwards . Good luck!
I'm going to take this seriously
as I have necked a bottle of prosecco
OP - can you not just text her, "I really fancy you, can we go out and try this?"
Go on. Do it, worst case she tells you to fuck off, but at least then your
our agony will be over.
Best case, you have a date! Woo! (and I would genuinely be happy for you x)
Arf at are you a school janitor? can you imagine!
You are the most inappropriate person and I am genuinely interested to know when, exactly, would be appropriate to you?
Careers adviser? In my experience they all tend to be creepy knobbers who think they're intellectuals. I dated one once and you sound a lot like him.
I had a colleague I sat next to that I had very sexual flirty chats with and he didn't fancy me at all so I wouldn't view your inappropriate interactions as any sort of courtship. I actually asked him out to his face and was turned down but we stayed good mates.
Oh and us women just LOVE hearing about how the strength of your feelings scares you. Little intense for someone you've not even kissed, no? Sounds like a line to get into her pants.
Is that sarcasm re strength of feelings? I am trying to get in her pants.. but seriously for love reasons. She is the first woman for ages that I can imagine really being with. I hope it will happen but you are right it could feel too intense for her.. damn I want to see her... She ignored my last suggestion we go somewhere together. . but then it was to an exhibition of bondage photos.. seemed to link in to our conversation but on reflection might have come across badly! I keep making these crazy errors with her and she keeps talking to me.. I think I am almost trying to sabotage.. perhaps I want to see if she will like all of me not just the best behaviour me.. is that possible??
I read the rules last night.. not such a good idea!
I'm bored with this. I'm going for a Twix.
You are a tattoo artist or some other alternative lifestyle person I bet. Ladies fell over you when you were young and edgy. But now you are not.
I know a worryingly large ammount of men like you. With impossible standards, living out their whole lives online or in their imaginations. They haven't aged well and many are alone and lonely now, bitterly regretting not taking more chances with the pretty young things when said pretty young things would still be interested.
Just ask her out on a date. If she doesn't say yes, she's not interested and you move on. Don't be the creepy hanger rounder.
well that was a bit of a closer guess.. but I have aged well thanks! I don't have impossible standards as I think women are pretty flawed.. not all wealthy enough and are a pain to be around sometimes. but I love all that. .its like being alive. I'm not bitter and was happy bumbling along until I realised how I really felt here.
I personally think that even if she were attracted to me she would be very sure not to be seen as just another one.. I do give the impression of sleeping with lots of people but I don't really.. because I am very sexually confident and really genuinely dont do the ownership or treat women badly thing that so many men see as expressing interest.. I have lost people in the past because they thought I didn't care when I didn't get insanely jealous if they talked to another man.
I don't know all of course but I know that some women have left me because they were getting too into me and didn't see me as marriage material..but its weird..that is exactly how I see myself. Part of it is..though I know you will all shout at me.. is that I am quite fit, quite good looking and don't dress like the ironed-shirt jeans amd shoes twats that fill up our town centres with leery guffaws.. so I do get friendly attention.. but that's not the point.. its not choice im after..its x..
oh and as regards hanger rounder.. I am used to having female friends, thats why this is complicated. If I were tge school disco type..boys one side girls on the other.. type it would be super easy but I'm not that kind of guy.. that 'women are a diffeeent species that can be tricked by lines and techniques' is just not me..if it were.. then this would be so much easier. .
I know someone mentioned this up thread but you don't work in a primary school do you?
No! Do you think I'm after one of the mums.. cheek!
oh or the teachers.. well perhaps thats not too bad.. why? is there someone after you who works at a primary school?
turkey you so have hit the nail on the head with guy I knew and he spouted all the same bs OP is doing. He was a silly old fart trying to
recapture his youth manipulate anyone stupid naive enough to fall for his supposedly 'romantic' ramblings
He obviously spent too long in the fairy tale section of the library.
So how do you dress differently then?
I always look at the shoes myself, what do you wear on your feet?
and fwiw my last fling was with a person 20 years my senior.. this is not about age or figure or intellectual mismatch.. I really like her.. perhaps that s weird, but I just dont thinks so. mind you this is good practice for RL characatures and jealousies. .
You were her accountant and your name is Duncan.
You wear leather shoes with wee tassles on the front.
This just gets better. In a teetering-on-the-brink-of-a-bit-scary way.
mmm I can just imagine me in tight stay-prest, pulled up white socks as x licks my wee tassles! a new direction for mr ND
can I double-entry your bookkeeping young lady..etc ;)
oh thats it..im so over her! ;) bring on the shop assistants!
get off the internet and ask her out already.
sacrebleu OP is giving me flash backs to the 30 plus year olds who used to hang out at the teenage rock night. let me show you my Sisters of Mercy vinyl collection
I am on the internet. photoshopping her face onto bridalwear pictures its tres therapeutic haha
haha, btw I think you are very funny and dealing with all the bashing very well, I'm sure she does fancy you, just get on with it.
This thread is bloody brilliant. I don't predict our first MN wedding just yet but still, been mighty fine entertainment.
Thanks Stu! (Duncan, Trevor?)
thanks mollyd.. it has been tough ;)
for some reason I think you must be libra
Listen, perhaps I am a bit more basic in my emotions but I don't see why you can't just be straight forward and move in. Next time she starts talking about her sexual fantasies, lean over and kiss her. You can hover a second or so giving her a chance to withdraw.
Just do it, I wouldn't want a man to talk to me too much about his feelings and how he sees me as a long term partner. Later on, ok but first I want excitement, tingling, thrills
could someone please explain egg sacking
I get that.. the early thrills.. and you are right I should have been more direct. I am kicking myself that I didn't. . it could just as easily be that she is now thinking I cant believe it..do me already and I am thinking ..ooh is she really into this or not? I guess my last things have been with more flirty direct women who probably were just enjoying me for sex.. I can't remember the last time strong feelings came into it. Its sad but true that I have sort of ended up as the recreational guy when I want to be the commited guy (NOT in a mental institution way comedians out there
ugh this thread
reading all this shite gave me brain herpes i'm sure of it
I still think you're the guy I mentioned in my thread...
The way you talk reminds me of him...pseudo-intellectual as some other up-thread mentioned.
And for someone who thinks they are falling in love or wants to, there are a lot of sexual undertones to your posts... :/
it seems a lot of agonising. Unless you enjoy investigating your feelings for her and are maybe discovering things about yourself through it, I would be tempted to call it a day but if you really think she is the one for you, you have to go out on a limb and risk something, or you'll never know. Call and arrange a date.
You said you usually wait for the woman to make the first move but it doesn't sound as if she is going to. A lot of women won't.
You said you don't want to be hurt but not knowing is hurting a bit too, isn't it? If this is a dead end, best for you to know and move on. If it isn't, wouldn't it be better to move forward?
Chibi, I'm proper shuddering at this now. Just URGH.
1. My JOB GUESS
An elderly TEFL teacher, who is best "friends" with 20 year old female foreign students and likes "helping them" when they come to London. Regularly comments on how Satoko and Fernanda are more "feminine" than their English counterparts. Is then pissed off when they go off and date and fuck men they are actually attracted to. Feathery stroker
2. In my time, I've dated men 10-15 years older and enjoyed it, no problem in making the first move or opened up to the first move physically. It's not the age thing, I think she sees you as "safe" -doesn't fancy you - which is WHY she is so open with you It's like you're her gal pal really.
Its like at school all the girls would flirt outrageously (and inappropriately) with the dowdy old male teachers but be a bit more coy with boys they were genuinely interested in - they don't see anything happening, so they don't care what they think.
What kind is all this shuddering??
"I do like the insulting style of mumsnet. Its very laddy and quite comforting."
FEATHERY STROKING ON A FORUM.
Op piss or get off the pot already.
send her a text or an email.
who knows it could be the start of something
nauseating seedy beautiful.
....and when she rejects him it will be:
1. "her male friends/family/culture didn't allow it"
2. "Women" (yes we all think the same ) don't like nice guys.
3. I'm so attractive I intimidated her, she had things going on in her life, society would judge the age gap.
4. "she thinks I'm a creepy weirdo and wouldn't touch me with a barge pole"
I must give similar advice to my friend who is dating..its not him its you. its not his job, expectations, outlook, bad judgement, fear, 'intimidated by a strong intelligent woman' etc its because you are a creepy old spinster who cackles when she 'laughs'.
I know I have kept my sense of humour, butdo you know how twisted and nasty some of you sound.. hardly attractive enough to stimulate you wank scenario!
I must give similar advice to my friend who is dating..its not him its you. its not his job, expectations, outlook, bad judgement, fear, 'intimidated by a strong intelligent woman' etc its because you are a creepy old spinster who cackles when she 'laughs'.
I know I have kept my sense of humour, butdo you know how twisted and nasty some of you sound.. hardly attractive enough to stimulate you wank scenario!
TOMORROW'S NEWS: ON ANOTHER FORUM, SOMEWHERE
"I think all these women were secretly flirting with me.
I told them unsolicited my We swapped fantasies online.
We had a strong connection. According to my ONLINE EBOOK TO SHOW SHE SECRETLY WANTS YOU they were all sending me secret mating signals. Baboons do it when they want to copulate.
Should I wait for them to make the first move? Or should I offer a Yoni massage?
I'M IN LOVE AND DON'T WANT TO SPOIL IT.
(I feel like I need to wipe my hands just posting on this thread )
really though. why not just ask her out/tell her how you feel?
What is the worst that could happen?
Ok OP so your good looking, have a degree of charm and a bit 'alternative' and that got you loads of sex in your youth, without you having to make any real effort or look up from your navel gazing. But, as you've discovered, getting the girl is one thing. Keeping her, quite another ball game and you my friend, have no game.
You have no game and your now middle aged and it is becoming increasingly obvious to the women that all you have to offer is a fun time between the sheets and a long wait for Peter Pan to decide to leave Neverland.
This girl may well be attracted to you but she sees you for what you are and unless you put something else on the table other than your cock, she's not going there. Sorry. You need to pull your thumb out of your butt and work out what you have to offer and what your willing to give. This is why your Wendy's are choosing the 'boring' types. There's more than one way to be boring and the "It's all about ME" show get very dull, very quickly not matter how cool and edgy a persona you've created for yourself.
You get out what you put in. If you keep coming out of relationships with shit all, what's that telling you?
Yup that's what I thought.. except people who do get to know me do see the opposite. As for 'having game' its true I don't have a construction to entice long term. No safe career or big pension atm but i am one of those people who basically feels incomplete without love, so its hard to see what I would be like in love. I know from the one or two examples that my 'game'..presumably attractiveness.. is v. strong when I am in love and its reciprocated. In the past this has made partners feel insecure.. though i am extremely loyal when I am committed it is also then when I become really attractive to other women, so it has helped my gfs friends in the past set up doubts in my gfs mind about my loyalty. in younger relationships this was surprisingly effective at breaking us up.
op have you asked her yet? no point mooning about. if you are not going to ask her then move on.
possibly if you always wait for women to ask/pounce on you instead of making a move they assume they were more interested in you and you may go off with the next woman who pounces.
also if you never flirt and never show any interest in other women then utterly should not make your gfs feel insecure. unless you are hedging your bets/flirting just tks prove to yourself that women find you as irresistible as you seem to think you are.
as poster above was saying, you need to offer more than just looks. and NO not money or pensions. unless you want a woman who wants you for your wallet.
check out thread from last night about lovely dps - notice none of them mentioned their dps pension.
I suppose what I'm really asking then is what does having 'game' mean then? is it own house and car? liking kids? being supportive?
oh just read other thread.. I can be nice!
I think you should concentrate on the supremely fascinating relationship you clearly have with
your right hand yourself -- and leave the poor girl alone.
oh and re flirting I do get accused of that but I see conversation as a way to make people feel better and flirting/praising comes into that, sure. I wouldn't stop a gf from flirting if that's the way she is.. you can be intensely loyal and flirt in a friendly way too and those are the kind of people I like. Thanks for these later perspectives though I will reflect on them and what I project..
Always with the sniping BOF ..are you ok hun?
Oh, bore off, would you? Nobody cares.
<MN KLAXON SOUNDS AT USE OF THE WORD HUN>
Evacuate the building, don't stop to collect your belongings. Do not panic.
Blimey OP,you've got some stamina <<arf>>
This has been going for ages.
Are you Gilderoy Lockhart?
I only made it to page 4..In case you hadn't realised many many women on here take the direct approach and that goes for many other women that aren't on here! Stop buggering around and tell her
not that you want to put your purple headed womb broom in her fanjo how you feel only then will you know the answer to your question.
All the advice in the world won't help if you're not actually telling the person directly involved and that's her. Be honest about your feelings that's all you can do, the ball is then in her court. But tbh by now you've taken so long she's probably married and expecting!
* Are you Gilderoy Lockhart?*
HAVE YOU ASKED HER YET OP
or is she imaginary ?
GET ON WITH IT YOU FEATHERY STROKER
This is the most self indulgent twoddle I heard in quite some time. It feels like each post should begin with 'dear diary'. If you come across this way in real life then I'm surprised any women ever dated you. However 'girls' may see you as a kindred spirit as you seem to have the same approach to relationships as hormonal teenage girls.
Really, take the advice. Man up and just ask her FFS.
you have such great opinions! thank-you!
So NotDead have you asked her out yet?
Who are you speaking to Sh1ney?
You can't guess, Sunny?
Have you read the thread?
'Purple headed womb broom'! . Not sure I can finish this thread - am camping and waking people up laughing like a loon
LadyBeagle I thought I'd check, just in case...
Oh God is this still going on? Man up Tinkerbell. And please, please, please don't tell us how it goes.
Actually OP you're probably probably wise to be thinking about your pension, coz at this rate you'll be claiming it by the time you ask this gal out.
been thinking about this and I don't know just how long these two have been friends. First she was in a relationship and now she isn't. If she has been out of this relationship for some time then I think you can assume she is not interested in a romantic involvement with you otherwise it would have happened. If she is fresh from that relationship break-up, you will just have to brave it and make your feelings known. Why can't you meet her and tell her that after your weekend together, you realise you are falling in love with her?
Maybe she has read Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl and has spotted OP's
purple headed broom warning flags
OP apologies if I've missed this but how often do you see this woman?
Have you spent any time with her since you started this thread...or spoken to her?
You seem to not really be asking for advice anymore, just replying to what people have said. So what's the point in continuing posting?
(as someone said to me on my thread...anyone reading this who's read mine - I do get the irony honest!)
btw my 'warning flags' are there because when I really fall for someone I get really hurt if it doesn't work out. I takes me a lot of introspection and insecurity to get over someone I really loved so I keep a distance by reflex which does send out the wrong signals.. right in the sense people think I am fun to be around.. friendly and open, but wrong when I want to step it up. I know this but kbowing isnt always enough. Thanks for helping me get perspective all. This is such a good supportive site (in between the insults! )
we are just gently chatting over distance..
vile vile vile thread.
vile vile bitchery.
It wasn't blokey OP, it was bitchy and spiteful and vile.
Ask her out.
imo she has either wound you up with the sex talk right at the beginning, or she wanted you to respond.
Tell her you have fallen for her; that saying you wanted to shag her was just nerves and you were an idiot - what you really meant to say was you'd like a relationship with her. (of course you want to shag her! That's how it goes when you fancy someone! Doesn't mean you're a sleazebag).
If she knocks you back then so be it - you are better out of the agony of not knowing one way or the other.
Don't bother to be friends with her if she knocks you back. Move on and find someone suitable.
Next time, stop mucking about and make your interest clear. It is incredibly flattering, not wet or dull.
And don't joke along when women are being viler than vile.
Thank you to those who brought this thread to our attention - we'd like to remind you of our talk guidelines, and that if you have doubts about a poster, please come to us, rather than having it out on a thread.
We'll be going through this thread and delete personal attacks.
Can I just say now mine was not a personal attack, gilderoy lockhart was 5 times winner of Witch Weekly's most charming smile award you know.
So if OP is weird and skeevy we're not allowed to say that?
Oh well. At least 'brain herpes' survived.
Next time some bloke talks about bending women's noses to the road, we'll all just simper along with it then shall we ?
Not in this fucking lifetime
I'd rather chew my own arm off
Op obviously wasn't too arsed about it....
I got a post deleted.
Eh, join the queue LBE <atrocious cunt fistbump>
"I think women are pretty flawed...not all wealthy enough and a pain to be around sometimes"
Is that what you think? I wonder why you are single.
<in a non-feathery way>
God, I can't believe I've read nearly all of this thread! I need a . OP, obviously you will do what you see is right but I think it's pretty black or white.
Stop analysing everything for a start. You can either carry on as you are and hope she makes a move but its more likely she'll eventually get bored of waiting for you or find someone else < in which case you can kiss goodbye to any sort of relationship when she gets a new man> or you can be honest and tell her how you feel and start the rest of your life together < boaks at the cheesyness>
NotDead what do you mean?
Marking place about a week late....
...and they all lived happily ever after.
<wanders off humming Some Day My Prince Will Come>
ohh do tell op, I'm fascinated
Oh great, she luffs him
Why do I keep getting drawn to this thread?
Hello.. so I asked her for a date.. and she said that she doesn't want to be in a relationship. With anyone.. as she has spent too long in relationships. . which I agree with and understand (poor woman is obv. in demand! ) but she said yes we could go out on a date.. I'm so happy! its fine to me that she dates me and we don't dive into a stifling relationship. . I suppose you could say its risky if she is dating others.. but hey I want her to be happy first and if its not with me.. well I suppose I would have to take it. I'm aware that her alone time could be a few years.. so its a bit scary.. but she is who she is! can't change it!
What a great result OP, I hope you have a lovely time.
Well done OP!
she sounds like a player
So FWB then?
Did she say "It's not you, it's me"?
Oh BOF you are a miserable bastard.. no she f'n didn't. and she is spot on with her understanding of herself so honestly find some spiders to pull the leg off if you want yr negative kicks so bad..
hey even if she is a player 1 that's up to her and 2 if FWB works for her and makes her feel good then so be it.. Couse I'd like more but if she doesn't want more then I'm happy to be a friend who gets her off ot whetever.. I don't want to lose her in my life.. so pushing any agenda is irrelevant. . its about her. Sorry if that pisses some of you off..Its just the way I am.. h might be different. . which is up to you..
what about this bit though OP 'because when I really fall for someone I get really hurt if it doesn't work out'
Well I have a philosophy.. if something s gonna cost a lot to lose then its means its worth going for..
Who is h? I don't have a h. I should be on a date right about now, or waking up from one.
I cbarsed, when I cbarsed with men I tell them I don't want a relationship, the truth is, if the right one came along, I would give up my singledom, well I would think about it and not put them in the 'fwb category'
You will get hurt. Well if you were a female you would, not sure about you males tbh.
Good luck then OP, though it sounds potentially very painful to me.
Blimey. This thread just won't die will it?
Haven't read all of this thread cos its so long..
from the first few posts it becomes obvious that you're in love with someone who is a little out of your league but not completely.
If still looking for advice (?) your age is in your favour because this might be why she hasn't gone with you yet
she will want kids and family soon - how solvent/reliable are you?
she obviously likes you and doesn't think you're a creep/stalker/not worth talking to
being in love with her makes you much more attractive - there's nothing quite like being with a man who is in love with you even if you're not sure yourself
sex and love are the same for some men, not separate like for some
But you maybe on mumsnet because you're not sure yourself/doing research for your work ect
If not, just ask her to marry you - tell her you're in love and she's the one then leave her think about it - you may end up on a 'proper date'
Hope the above is not offensive to single women - ie ref to wanting kids and family...do I read too much Jane Austen?
'it is a truth universally acknowledged that a single man.....'
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