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My boyfriend hates my guts, please help me ltb

(605 Posts)

MNHQ have commented on this thread.

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 17:15:43

Back story is that I have been with my boyfriend over four years, I have one dc from a previous relationship, dc was a baby when boyfriend and I got together so boyfriend is all dc has ever known as 'dad'. Relationship was great to begin with and it was always envisaged that we had a future, marriage, moving in together, him being a parent to dc. He talked about the 'future' moreso than me as I didn't go in to it expecting anything.

After about a year together a started wanting a bit more. Eating together as he'd always eat at his mums, planning to move in together, him not dropping me last minute to see mates, him not speaking to women online he'd met on chatrooms. He withdrew massively at this point and I was made to feel as though I was mental and possessive for wanting a bit more commitment. And I actually doubted myself in a big way.

Since then I'm ashamed to admit he's pretty much treated me like shit, he's very good at taking me for a nice dinner or buying me a lovely present but he's pulled so many stunts, breaking up with me, lying and going behind my back, leading me up the garden path only to drop me like a lead weight, I'm mad really not to have just called it a day. I can't possibly go into it all as I'd be here all night but he has pulled some pretty rotten stunts.

Around Christmas time after something else happened I decided enough was enough and ended things. He wasn't too bothered at first but after a few weeks started begging me to get back together, he knew he'd been an idiot, knew he needed to commit, hadn't realised what I meant to him and what he really wanted in life.

I'd had a good few weeks to think things over in my own head and had decided that I wasn't crazy for wanting a boyfriend who was a partner, who after 4 years together would move in, get married, let me get closer to his family as they so desperately want but he's kept me at a safe distance. I knew what I wanted and told him so and that I wasn't going to pretend anymore.

He agreed it was absolutely what he wanted too. He made a huge gesture and bought me a new car as my old one was falling apart, well I put a bulk to it and my old car as deposit but he put most of the money to it. This was one of the things we have argued about in the past as he has a sports car sitting in the garage, a nearly new car, a sports bike and a work van, while I was driving me and dc round in a car with the brakes going. While boyfriend was happy to lodge in my house half the time letting me feed him and do his washing. So I suppose it was his way of showing me that he does care.

Things were a bit better for a few weeks, but then he just went back to his old self.

We just had a lovely weekend it was his birthday and I took him shopping to buy some gifts, we went for a nice meal, got on really well.I raised the subject of the future and it's all come tumbling down again. He's decided that I'm not happy as I'm always 'at him' about moving in or getting married. He needs some space as he can't see how it's going to work. With him this usually leads to weeks of not speaking until he decides he misses me and got it all wrong.

He left a few things here at the weekend and has snuck back in while I was at work to take them. He doesn't have a key and he'd actually snuck my back door keys out so he could get in when I wasn't here. I've also found out he's had the week off work and made out he only ahd the day off, probably because he was scared I might have a few days off too.

I don't know what more I can do to make this man happy, I'm a nice person, I'm kind and I love him very much, I think that I'm attractive and I'm sure he finds me attractive, we have fun and lots of laughs, we've lots in common, we get on well generally and I feel a spark as in we always have lots to talk about and we're very affectionatte to one another.

I can't be doing with the games anymore, all I want is a normal life together but he seemingly doesn't want the same as me. He has a new issue with me every few months. It's getting ridiculous, my dc has started missing him terribly when he goes home and even crying for him.

I have to call it a day don't I? But I don't know how to stay strong.

Ogg Wed 15-May-13 17:20:10

Why do you want to make this many happy ? Make yourself and your DS happy and LTB.

BerylStreep Wed 15-May-13 17:22:48

Well you have answered your own question.

He doesn't respect you, treats you like shit, and doesn't want to commit.

You can't change him.

Tell him it's over, block him on phone / Facebook and change the locks, front and back.

And thank your lucky stars that you are not married to him don't have DC with him, and that you are not financially tied to him.

I would also hold on to the car, what with it being a gift and you contributing to it.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 15-May-13 17:23:53

"I don't know what more I can do to make this man happy"

This is the part you have to get well and truly out of your head. You were not put on this earth to make any man happy. If you take that approach someone selfish - like your boyfriend - will deliberately exploit it and have you running around trying to keep him sweet. That's not a nice person, however much 'spark' there is.

Yes, you have to call it a day. The longer you drag it on the worse you'll feel, the lower your self-confidence will sink and the more your child will suffer when it ends.

How to stay strong... call in back-up smile Friends, family, MN and anyone else that can help you. You don't live together so that's one problem you don't have. But cease contact. Literally lose his phone number, don't take his calls, and rework your days and your leisure time around yourself from now on. He'll do the begging thing again because he's selfish, he's onto a good thing and won't want to lose someone who lets him play cocklodger for free ... washing and cooking for him etc.

Be your own woman. Good luck

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 17:25:08

I'm not too sure in all honesty. I suppose because we have lots of amazing lovely times and I would very much like for us all to be a proper family. He says he does too but his actions don't show it.

He can be when he wants to be, we have holidays, days out, he will stay in with ds if I want to go out. But he will coldy withdraw at any point he chooses and I know deep down that he has no real interest. I feel very rejected and can't understand why.

LokiTheCynicalCat Wed 15-May-13 17:25:17

Why do you want to make him happy when he doesn't care about making you happy?

Or your dc? It's not you making your dc cry, it's him. Children will accept as normal what they live with on a daily basis, but this relationship is not normal, and you may know this - your dc doesn't. Someone in a parental role to your dc should not keep skipping out on him all the time whenever they fall out with you, should they. It's cruel and heartless to the child to keep him around and let him do this over and over,IMO.

LTB once and for all, all the mind games and "rotten tricks" are only going to mess with your DC's head as well as yours and it has already started. You owe your dc a better life and view of relationships than this.

Leverette Wed 15-May-13 17:25:22

What a wankweasel. LTB and do not look back!

JamieandtheMagicTorch Wed 15-May-13 17:26:20

I hope that, having it written all down, you will be able to look at what you've written dispassionately, as we are.

Yes, LTB

No-one deserves a poor relationship like you have.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Wed 15-May-13 17:28:19

Mousey

You doubt you will have nice times with anyone else, maybe?

You don't have to tolerate the crap to deserve the nice times. You can have a nice life, with someone who treats you decently all the time. It exists. It really does.

LokiTheCynicalCat Wed 15-May-13 17:28:31

"I know deep down that he has no real interest. I feel very rejected and can't understand why."

The two sentences are connected, OP. join the dots - you feel rejected because he has no interest in being part of your family dream. Actions speak louder than words. He will say whatever you want to hear but it's not enough anymore.

Yargg Wed 15-May-13 17:31:19

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

StrawberryMojito Wed 15-May-13 17:31:59

Re read your own OP. This is always going to be how it is. It is never going to get better. He wants to have his cake and eat it and you are letting him. Nothing you are asking for is unreasonable but he clearly doesn't want those things with you (and probably no one else either). He has spelled it out for you. It's really time to move on. Sorry.

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 17:32:40

I think I'm permanently baffled as the pattern goes, we break up, get back together and he usually does a big gesture to prove things have 'changed', followed by going back to old self and then blaming me.

I can't understand the big grand gestures.

I'm also a bit afraid of telling people it's over. I feel a bit of a failure, everyone around me seems to be in happy relationships and I can't make mine work. People on the outside don't really know what goes on and I'm a little afraid of the questions that will come.

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 17:34:53

I'm not really in a position to sell the car as I need it for work, I have a long commute which was why he bought me a better car in the first place.

I don't know how old he is, but he sounds very young to me, and nowhere near being able to commit.

I imagine he, like you, enjoys your time together and then gets scared you might leave for good if he doesn't give you more of himself. Hence the big gesture, but then it's back to normal with his cold feet again.

I don't think things will work out between you until (and if) he is ready to fully settle down, which could be years.

Dorange Wed 15-May-13 17:36:49

he probably wants you and other women too, he will never commit

BIWI Wed 15-May-13 17:36:53

What's to be baffled about?

He doesn't care about you or respect you in any way.

And continuing to try and make him happy is only serving to depress your self-esteem.

You are worth far more than this little twat.

Get shot of him and start to think about yourself and what you and your child deserve.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 15-May-13 17:37:40

"I can't understand the big grand gestures."

It's fairly standard emotionally abusive tactics. Bullying, if you prefer. Treat someone like crap for a while, be mean to them, let them run around after you trying to keep you happy and what have you got? ..... a nice obedient, eager to please girlfriend. Then she gets fed up and kicks you out and you might lose your personal slave .... uh-oh!..... turn on the charm and promise 'a future' until she's back on the team.

And repeat....

You'd only be a failure if you stayed with this arsehole. It isn't up to you to 'make it work'. When you're with the right person, there is no emotional abuse, very little effort and no-one feels like they got the shitty end of the stick

StrawberryMojito Wed 15-May-13 17:38:19

After 4 years together and him still choosing to live with his parents rather than you, I suspect that your friends will know that not everything in the garden is rosy.

You are good to him, he has to make very little effort and he probably does care about you so he misses you when you split up and wants you back (and his bruised ego wants to know you still love him too) so he makes the grand gestures. Then, when you're back where he wants you, the effort stops.

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 17:38:54

Boris he's just turned 30 so surely he's not that young to settle down?

JamieandtheMagicTorch Wed 15-May-13 17:39:51

You are his safety net, his security net, whatever you want to call it.

Either he does the big gestures as a conscious effort when he sees he's gone too far and you might actually leave, or he's just a lazy thoughtless git who sometimes pulls himself together and remembers to be nice.

But being nice shouldn't be an effort, shouldn't come in fits and starts, and shouldn't be interspersed with nastiness.

Get over feeling a failure. We all "fail" at something. It has gone wrong - you haven't failed because you can't make and maintain a relationship all on your own.

And don't compare your insides to everyone else's outsides. No-one knows what goes on inside other people's relationships, but you may even find people had an inkling anyway.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Wed 15-May-13 17:41:18

X post with Cogito

Exactly

uncongenial Wed 15-May-13 17:41:49

The others are right. And you deserve a proper relationship, not this excuse for one, be kind to yourself and cut off contact with him.

lottieandmia Wed 15-May-13 17:44:58

He's not too young to settle down. But he is a loser if he has the week off work and doesn't want to prioritise that time with you! You have put up with this for 4 years?

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 17:45:01

strawberry sorry just to clarify, he doesn't live with his parents anymore. He did the first couple of years we were together then moved out to live on his own.

He started eating with me once he moved out and his mum wasn't making his tea anymore. Although he lives alone he's around at my place more often than not.

lottieandmia Wed 15-May-13 17:47:45

What things has he lied about?

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 17:47:53

That's why he lied and pretended he only had the day off.

Nothing wrong with wanting a bit of time off to yourself, but let's face it, if we were together in the family sense he probably wouldn't use a weeks holidays to lounge around on his own.

Astley Wed 15-May-13 17:48:37

This is the type of person ou want to turn into a 'dad' for your child?!

BIWI Wed 15-May-13 17:48:46

He is, as SBG will tell you, what's known as a 'cocklodger'. He is using you. He treats you nicely occasionally, to keep you sweet.

lottieandmia Wed 15-May-13 17:49:28

No, no he is not father material is he? And what if you had a child with him? I doubt he would turn into a great father.

Mousey you'd think so at 30 but I know a man in his mid 40's just like this. Don't wait for him, get on with your life and pleasing yourself and your DS.

And everyone who knows him, knows the problem is with him, not the girlfriends who are all lovely, but changed every 3 years or so.

BalloonSlayer Wed 15-May-13 17:50:36

I think it speaks volumes that you think him graciously allowing you to feed him his dinner in the evening, instead of his Mum, is a step forward in commitment.

It reminds me of the tale of Anne Boleyn going nuts at Henry VIII because she found out he was still allowing Katherine of Aragon to mend his shirts. Anne was outraged as she thought she ought to be the one with that honour. And we all know how that one ended.

lottieandmia Wed 15-May-13 17:53:19

Yes, it's normal for people to be flakey when they're teenagers but if they haven't grown out of it by 30 they never will.

Kernowgal Wed 15-May-13 17:55:15

What does he contribute to the relationship? I was in your position this time last year and I realised I had grown tired of trying to please him all the time and actually I couldn't rely on him for anything. I didn't dare ask him for help if I needed it, because he always had an excuse or made me feel like I was putting him out. I ran around after him trying to make everything perfect and still he found fault with everything I did. I cooked for us, helped look after his kids when they stayed with us, helped out on his smallholding, helped him with all sorts of things, and frankly he did fuck all for me. I spent ages choosing his birthday present and making it really special; he bought me a bunch of reduced stuff from the shop at work.

As someone on this board always says, when someone shows you who they are, believe them.

So basically you've taken over from his mum?!

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 17:57:43

Oh all sorts lottie he once promised to take me away for my birthday, then randomly fell out with me over nothing. He then admitted it was because he'd booked to go away with his mum and dad but said he'd like me to come too, we got dc's passport, I booked time off work, got new clothes, we had a little tiff about a week before over an outfit for dc and he decided I couldn't come on the holiday after all, he told his family I didn't have the money to come after all and made me look a right idiot. He changed his mind when he got back, told me he'd had a terrible time without us and booked for the 3 of us to go away.

I've caught him chatting with women he's met in chat rooms, flirty chat, although this was all a while ago.

And just lots of stupid things, lying for the sake of lying almost.

MadBusLady Wed 15-May-13 18:04:37

The stuff you're describing goes way beyond flakey or commitment-phobic. OP, he does the big grand gestures and then withdraws his affection because he wants to mess you about. He likes you confused. It gives him pleasure to see you upset and using all your energy trying to figure out how to make him happy. He lies for the sake of it because he wants to see how much of his bullshit you'll suck up. For him, this relationship is working perfectly.

IrritatingInfinity Wed 15-May-13 18:04:47

Just dump him. Don't agonise over it for a second longer. Delete his numbers, block him on Facebook, give him back anything you owe him and start enjoying life without him. It should be a simple as that. No DRAMA, just do it.

You both sound like teenagers (sorry).

It is sad that you are afraid of telling people, I suspect anyone that knows you well and cares for you will be pleased.

Good luck and be strong.

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 18:07:28

Well when you put it like that! Don't get me wrong, he does stuff, he'll make tea for us probably once a week, he'll sort breakfast out we usually take it in turns, he'll wash up (not very often) he does the odd bit of DIY although nothing to get excited about. He'll look after dc if I want to go out no problem, he will sort bedtime out, again probably once a week. I've got no real big complaints with the amount he does all things considering.

But we're not a team, it's all very adhoc, and his stuff always comes first. I want it to be like the nice times all the time.

wordyBird Wed 15-May-13 18:12:03

He doesn't want what you want, mousey.... He's made that very clear. So there's no future for you here. sad

He sounds like a low grade sociopath. Have you posted about him before, because the story seems familiar?

Either way he has to go. His comings and goings are upsetting your child.... and you.

MadBusLady Wed 15-May-13 18:13:50

No, I'm sure he's not awful all the time, because if he was that bad you wouldn't have stayed as long as you have. But basically he wouldn't pull these dramas every so often unless it suited him, would he. The nice times all the time is what any sane person would want. So he's getting something out of acting like he does.

IrritatingInfinity Wed 15-May-13 18:14:58

He sounds horrible. The fact he is nice omeof the time and then nasty at others seems almost worse. He sounds manipulative and sneaky. How can you love someone who lies to you and does the things he does to you? I am sorry but I don't understand it. sad

Do you think his behaviour will improve? Yes or No ? hmm

There are lots and lots of men out there that treat their partners with respect, don't lie to them and don't feel the need to generally be a bastard. Wouldn't you prefer someone like that.

I understand you have invested a lot of time and energy in him but sometimes you have to cut your losses.

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 18:21:38

I have previously wordy yes.

I think it's very easy as an outsider to look in without any emotional involvement, and the decision seems simple, if he would just be upfront and say he doesn't want any commitment it woudl be more straightforward, but he never, ever says that, he always says he absolutely does, but I'm stopping him by doing x, y or z, or I'm not giving him chance to sort things out. And yes it is strange to love someone who has treated you badly but of course day to day he is quite lovely.

StrawberryMojito Wed 15-May-13 18:27:40

Most people are talking from experience though, either their own of that of someone they know.

I don't know what you're hoping to get from this thread, you're quite obviously going to stick with the status quo.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Wed 15-May-13 18:33:38

He doesn't say because either he has no insight into himself, or he is too scared it will leave him without his safety net.

Again, either is not good.

Listen to what he does instead

We have all loved someone who was not that into us. In my case it luckily only lasted a few months. He cheated on me , twice, and that broke the camel's back.

You've had 4 years of it. If he doesn't know now, he never will. Don't let him mess you and your son about any more. Take control

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 18:33:50

I should probably as, although I don't know if this makes the slightest difference. We live in different towns, about a 20-30 minute drive apart. He works about an hour from my house and his job is quite specialist and he often has to pick people up in his town and travel around meaning he has to leave at 6.30am and doesn't get back until 6.00-6.30pm. He gets really tired and has used this as his reason for not moving in, as he says he needs to either get a new job or live with the travelling. He says he can't get a new job as what he does is quite specialist. I'm not entirely convinced that he couldn't get a new job, as he has qualifications and skills that could be used more widely, however he is very shy and I think he would find it difficult to change jobs as he's been there so long and gets to work alone most of the time. I would have considered moving to his town but he put that off at the time, and now my dc is at school so there is no way I will uproot my dc.

He doesn't actually say he won't move in, he just puts it off and puts it off until it brews into an arguement. I do wonder if that wasn't an issue we would be living together or if I'm just kidding myself.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Wed 15-May-13 18:34:47

And I also think that he sounds like someone in his late teens/20's.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Wed 15-May-13 18:37:20

Oh Blimey listen to yourself

JamieandtheMagicTorch Wed 15-May-13 18:41:56

Sorry, that was rude.

It's frustrating hearing you tie yourself in knots trying to understand him. The fact that you are in any doubt as to what his motivations are is strange, given how long you have been together. I admit I come to this from the POV of someone who has been with the same person for donkey's years

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 18:43:44

jamie I think I find it hard to accept perhaps that he's not that into me, I'm sure he can't be or he'd commit, but then I think, would you really buy a new car for someone, or take them on holiday if you wern't that into them.

Also when we're together he's very loving and attentive, very affectionatte, wanting to cuddle constantly, the other day we were going out and he said people must look at us and think what is she doing with him as he's overweight and looks a state, he tells me every day I look gorgeous even when I'm in my scruffy old pyjamas. People comment on just how 'into' me he is in terms of his body language. It is all very confusing for me.

DawnOfTheDee Wed 15-May-13 18:43:47

You're kidding yourself I'm afraid. This 'man's is a cocklodger. You want to know how to keep him happy? Do nothing. Keep things exactly as they are....I assure you he's very happy with the status quo.

You need to ltb. If not for yourself then think of the example you are setting for your dc.

Apologies if this sounds harsh but you seem to be looking for any and every reason to stay.

BarredfromhavingStella Wed 15-May-13 18:43:57

The title of your thread says it all for me, if you honestly think he hates your guts why the fuck do you want to be with this twat?

You & your child deserve far better than this, he is a wanker plain & simple, he is never going to change-keep the car & fuck him off.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Wed 15-May-13 18:47:32

"I can't be doing with the games anymore, all I want is a normal life together but he seemingly doesn't want the same as me"

I think this just summarises it, really.

You can't change him.

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 18:49:06

I'm not concerned if people sound harsh or rude as I can understand that I have asked for advice and people will say it as they see, although I would appreciate people being a bit gentle as although I may sound a complete idiot I am hurting quite a bit. I possibly am looking for reasons to stay as I think I convince myself/let him convince me that I'm being very unfair on him somehow.

The title does probably sound quite ott in hindsight but at the point of writing it it was how I felt, as I'd just realised he'd taken the week off while dc and I are at work/school and not let on. And still saying he wants space when I've done nothing other than raise the question of our future together.

lottieandmia Wed 15-May-13 18:49:42

'He sounds like a low grade sociopath.'

I have to agree - the sort of behaviour he is displaying sounds bonkers. He will wear you down - get out before he does!

uncongenial Wed 15-May-13 18:50:07

It sounds a little as if he has a separate life from you and wants to keep it that way. This might sound far fetched, but is it possible he lives with a girlfriend/wife when not with you?

lottieandmia Wed 15-May-13 18:51:18

mousey - it's nothing to do with him not being into you - he's fucked up he'd be like this whoever he was with.

What do you know about his exes and how those relationships ended?

JamieandtheMagicTorch Wed 15-May-13 18:53:01

Do you feel a bit sorry for him?

I'm getting a niggling sense that you see him as being in need of extra care - he's shy, inadequate somehow, not confident about his looks?

Forgive me if I've read that wrong

BIWI Wed 15-May-13 18:53:14

Just imagine reading your posts as if they were written by one of your best friends. What would you advise her?

I bet you wouldn't advise her to carry on this relationship!

lottieandmia Wed 15-May-13 18:53:44

Most people who are EA in relaitonships have learned the behaviour from their parents somehow and they often don't even know that they are abusive.

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 18:54:04

He definitely doesn't have another girlfriend/wife.

I'm free to go to his house any time I like and do go over and there's absolutely nothing suspicious there, just mine his and dcs stuff dumped everywhere, it's not very lived in but there's certainly no other woman there. We're also together or hanging around at one another house every weekend unless one of us has something planned and he's round mine most of the week.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Wed 15-May-13 18:55:33

A partner in life should not be leaving you feeling shite.

Sorry, but I can't see what the up side of this is for you sad

JamieandtheMagicTorch Wed 15-May-13 18:57:33

Shipwrecked

Yes, it is as simple as that, isn't it? Once we are past the does-he-doesn't he of early relationships, it really should be the case that your partner is the person who helps you feel good about yourself, secure and relaxed...

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 19:00:24

lottieandmia he had one girlfriend previous to me, he was only with her for about a year and she was quite a bit young than him, she left him for someone else.

jamie there is an element of what you said but it's difficult to explain.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Wed 15-May-13 19:01:15

That's exactly it.

And the person in question can be a nice person unlike this particular sack of shit but still, if you are not feeling supported, secure and happy then it isn't the right relationship for you.

that is what the relationship is for.

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 19:03:55

shipwrecked I suppose the thing is I feel secure and supported 'some of the time', or even a lot of the time, even without the living together he does some of the things a partner does. But the problem is that it's not full time and he will simply pull the rug from under me at any point.

lottieandmia Wed 15-May-13 19:08:17

How can you possibly feel secure with someone who arranges to go on holiday with you, then throws all his toys out of the pram and uninvites you and who has a week off work but doesn't want to spend it with you? You can't build a life with someone like this. At this stage of a relationship most of your free time should be spent doing things together and feeling secure in the relationship as others have said.

He's probably become a habit that you will feel temporarily lonely without.

IrritatingInfinity Wed 15-May-13 19:09:30

In your OP you wrote (cut and pasted)

He has a new issue with me every few months. It's getting ridiculous, my dc has started missing him terribly when he goes home and even crying for him

It is one thing for your 'boyfriend' to mess you about but do you think it is ok for him to mess your child about? The child that thinks of your 'boyfriend' as a Dad.
You can be as lovelorn as you want but you are putting your child in an emotionally vulnerable position.

flippinada Wed 15-May-13 19:17:48

Look, this guy is a grade A tosspot.

Your obviously get something - God alone knows what - out of all this tawdry emotional drama, but what about your little one. If you won't get rid for yourself, please do it for them.

Sorry to be blunt, but someone who does that to children (I'm talking about him) is lower than a piece of shit on a shoe.

BarredfromhavingStella Wed 15-May-13 19:21:27

What Flipp said.

OrWellyAnn Wed 15-May-13 19:31:11

Mousey, I'm loathe to say it but he sou DS just like a very dear friends ex. Turns out he lived with someone else and they had a daughter. Neither woman knew about the other ... His family were even in on the lie, putting up pics of the relevant people on the days they visited.
Even now he tries to get my friend back, insisting it's her he loves...I'm confident he does the same to the other ex too!

For whatever reason, this man cannot and will not commit to you. He is either emotionally immature, has someone else or is just too selfish to be a true partner to anyone. Whichever it is you and your dd deserve more. Ltb

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 19:44:07

I am reading and I am taking it all in.

It's a little hard to contemplate how this may effect my dc. I suppose I think a lot of the days out, mornings spent all cuddled up on bed with books and toys, the instability seemed to matter less when dc was very little, as they had no concept of time. But obviously that is changing as dc is getting older and more attached. I do also find boyfriend very critical of dc, and often find myself stepping in, but I don't know if I'm just being overly defensive because boyfriend isn't parent.

flippinada Wed 15-May-13 19:47:06

I've read back and my last post sounds aggressive. I apologise for that but people who treat children like this (I'm talking about the horrible boyfriend) make me so bloody ANGRY.

OP, if your left feeling upset and confused by his dreadful behaviour imagine how your DD feels. She doesn't have an adult perspective.

Imagine getting a child all excited about a holiday and then bailing out on them because of some crappy, manufactured excuse. Can you imagine doing that to them, knowing how hurt and disappointed they would be? Because that's exactly who this man is. A deeply, deeply nasty piece of work angry .

morningsarepants Wed 15-May-13 19:50:32

Ditch him, ditch him, ditch him! Perhaps it sounds harsh but it really does sound like the way forward. I found myself in a relationship some years ago now that was difficult to get out of (albeit for other reasons) - awful one minute, sweetness and light the next - tried to end it, then got persuaded that things would change etc etc. Finally I really did end it - and no, it wasn't pretty - but it was so worth it to be free. YOU are worth it too. He cannot provide what you really want - commitment - so go out there and look for what you want. There ARE nice men out there, really there are. Go and find one and make yourself happy x

flippinada Wed 15-May-13 19:50:42

Cross posts. He is critical of your DD angry sad? What the hell are you waiting for?

Your poor DD growing up with this shite excuse of a waste of space man..actually search that, I'm being unkind to wastes of space.

GET RID!!

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 19:51:11

I do understand I really do, my dad was a let down so I know how horrible it is.

Luckily when this holiday was supposed to take place dc was very little and didn't understand. However as dc has got older I have taken to not always telling them things are going to happen until they actually do, where boyfriend is involved and there's a possibility he could let us down. And I realise this is no way to live sad

ShipwreckedAndComatose Wed 15-May-13 19:53:26

I can understand that he makes you feel secure some of the time.

If he was shite all of the time then you wouldn't be with him at all!

However, a decent relationship should always feel like that. Not just when it suits him.

IrritatingInfinity Wed 15-May-13 19:58:57

I do also find boyfriend very critical of dc shock shock sad

That is a really sad thing to hear. I feel for your DC.

tribpot Wed 15-May-13 19:59:08

Who owns the car he bought you, OP? Is it in his name?

I do also find boyfriend very critical of dc, and often find myself stepping in

This feels like a very strange thing to admit after so many previous posts. Why the hell are you obsessing about pleasing someone who is so critical of your dc?

flippinada Wed 15-May-13 20:02:21

sad Mousey

If I sound angry, it's because I know your and your DD deserve better, and I don't "know" you (iyswim).

It is easier said than done, I know that, but I reckon you will be surprised how much better you both feel in a short space of time after you've made the break.

georgedawes Wed 15-May-13 20:03:49

Do you think the fact your dad wasn't great is one of the reasons you're putting up with so much shit now?

HamsterDam Wed 15-May-13 20:08:46

i could have wrote your op 6 months ago. got together when ds was a baby and exactly the same on off push pull cycle. i don't know why they do it but i know you will feel better if you take control and put a stop to it.by leaving him. wish i had done it sooner. you are missing opportunities to meet a real partner who has the intention and capability to love you and your dc as much as you deserve by wasting any more time with this selfish excuse for a man

lottieandmia Wed 15-May-13 20:12:12

Mousey - if you can't remove this waste of space for yourself please do it for your son.

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 20:12:50

I own the car it's in my name. I'm not too concerned about the car as he isn't going to want or ask for it back. It's more the fact that I can't understand why he bought me such a big gift as a gesture supposed to show we are a proper couple. Only to Falk out again.

Him being critical of dc, I'm not sure if I'm just being precious. There is general whinging about dc programmes being on in the day, things like if he's taken dc to swimming lessons and I ask how dc did he will be like 'oh ok but you know what dc is like, didn't listen, did the wrong thing'. Or for example I want dc to learn to ride their bike, I would like boyfriend to take more of a role in this but he sees it ad hassle. He doesn't say that but his attitude is more dc is unteachable rather than its out fault for not putting the time in.

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 20:14:03

Fall out again

lottieandmia Wed 15-May-13 20:18:30

It seems to me you've been stuck in this so long you can't see the wood for the trees. Precious? I would be livid if any partner of mine was not supportive of my children and made negative comments about them.

Children who heard negative comments on a regular basis grow up with issues and are unable to achieve as well as they should (this was me - my parents were crtical of me all the time and they still can't see it)

flippinada Wed 15-May-13 20:21:31

You are not being precious.

Why are you obsessing over his motives? Honestly, who cares?

He is being abusive to you and your kids. I'm getting angry again at this useless wanker making nasty undermining comments to your DC.

FGS don't end being one of those dreadful, pathetic women who put their need to be partnered up above their own DCs welfare.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Wed 15-May-13 20:23:40

If he is to be a father to your DS, his love and support should be unconditional. Not picky.

Notfootball Wed 15-May-13 20:24:26

Your child is going to grow up thinking that this is a normal relationship. Do you want that? If not, LTB.

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 20:25:10

My dad was critical too p
lottie, that's why I'm unsure if I'm being precious. He doesn't do or say anything horrendous but I find it generally irritating. We could be all sitting eating a meal and I might be chatting to boyfriend about something and he won't be listening he'll be watching dc eatong, Y
the way dc I'

is eating or making a bit of a mess and jump in. I was taking dc to football and I felt boyfriend just rubbished it because dc didn't get it right away. I've also had to intervene with them arguing over whose turn it is to have their channel on which I just find pathetic. Boyfriend not my dc.

Viviennemary Wed 15-May-13 20:27:32

There are three things. One you can hope he changes and becomes the person you want him to be. (This is not likely) Or you can put up with things as they are. (You don't really want to do that as you are not happy) Or call it a day and try and find happiness with somebody more suitable. You know yourself what is the right thing and try and find the courage to do it.

flippinada Wed 15-May-13 20:30:23

Mousey what about your DC?

Don't you think they deserve better than this?

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 20:32:03

The stuff with dc and boyfriend has only really become apparent to me more recently as dc is getting older and more of a personality of their own. Just one dc btw I'm trying not to say gender. Boyfriend was always very nice and loving with dc as a baby and toddler. Still is, but I do feel sometimes he's just waiting to jump in and moan about something. And my dc is generally well behaved, lovely and typical for their age.

flippinada Wed 15-May-13 20:33:43

It doesn't have to be anything horrendous. The constant drip drip drip of low level nastiness is actually much worse than (for example) a one off comment made in anger. Not saying that's good either, mind you.

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 20:34:52

Flipp, I do, of course I do. I think perhaps I've been so caught up in it I don't always see things as bad as perhaps they are

Things were a bit better for a few weeks, but then he just went back to his old self. His true self. His real self. This is who he is. Sometimes he changes for a bit to keep you sweet. But his old self, as you put it, always comes back.

Now, given that he has shown you many times who he is, don't you think you deserve more?

Your posts are sounding as though you think if only you could find the magic key...the miraculous thing that will make him be different, make him be who you want him to be, then everything would be all right.

But maybe you could try thinking of things in a different way. Instead of thinking what can you do to please him, make him happy, make him live the way he agrees he wants to live but actually doesn't, can you think about the fact that the man he really is does not make you happy, does not fulfil your expectations and hopes. So instead of keep hoping that he will make you happy, can't you decide that actually, he won't, and he doesn't, and he hasn't. Made you happy.

And as over the four years he has proved that he really, really won't, then it is time to LTB, and give yourself a chance at a happy life.

In your op, he doesn't exactly sound like a prize. So I hope you feel that, really, you are worth more.

quietlysuggests Wed 15-May-13 20:37:02

I think it must be the 1980s around here,
You are grateful for some arsewipe to have taken you on with your child and clearly as you are a fallen woman you have no right to expect more than shitty treatment??
Ditch his sorry ass, your daughter wont remember his name in a year!

LastTangoInDevonshire Wed 15-May-13 20:39:18

You know what to do OP - and PLEASE PLEASE make sure you do not get pregnant with this waste of space!

ChasedByBees Wed 15-May-13 20:42:41

For goodness sake, just LTB. You might find him hurtful, but he will conpletely destroy your DCs self esteem.

flippinada Wed 15-May-13 20:43:23

His treatment of your DC is the worst aspect of this sad situation. It's abuse. It's not in your face but it's abuse nonetheless. I make no apologies for saying that.

Perhaps I'm speaking out of line here but I do believe that anyone looking at this from an outside perspective would agree.

SugarPasteGreyhound Wed 15-May-13 20:45:03

The relationship suits him. He gets his meals cooked, washing done, sex when he wants it, the opportunity to play daddy when he feels like it and someone who thinks he's lovely. No financial or emotional commitment.

Then when he feels like it, he manufactures a row so he gets to go off and do his single bloke stuff, chat to other women etc. Then all he needs to do is swan back in with some nice words and you're back where he wants you again.

You don't want a marriage proposal that you have had to prise out of him. You want someone to want to move in, to want to get married. These aren't things that you have to fight for. In the unlikely event that he did eventually cave in and commit, he's never going to be fully on board. He'll end up resenting you because he'll feel that you pushed him into it. You'll end up resenting him because he's never been fully committed.

Save yourself time and heartache and leave him now. If he cries and begs then bear in mind the only reason he is doing so, is because he is mourning the end of his cushy relationship because most women wouldn't put up with his shit. You deserve better.

SugarPasteGreyhound Wed 15-May-13 20:49:18

Btw his behaviour is not a reflection on your character. You've taken him at face value and assumed that he is a nice bloke. In fact men like this are calculating and manipulative and clever.

You won't be the first or the last to fall for their act. But what you can do is learn from it and move on.

MadBusLady Wed 15-May-13 20:52:37

Everyone's telling you the same thing, OP.

BIWI Wed 15-May-13 20:57:20

But he didn't buy you a car! You said:

"He made a huge gesture and bought me a new car as my old one was falling apart, well I put a bulk to it and my old car as deposit but he put most of the money to it"

You bought it between you. It was a shared purchase, not a gift.

You are deluding yourself about this man.

AnyFucker Wed 15-May-13 21:01:39

We can all tell you to LTB, but it's up to you whether you actually do it

Talk is cheap OP, as your shit boyfriend is ably demonstrating over and over

What about you...is your talk cheap ?

IrritatingInfinity Wed 15-May-13 21:07:11

I don't think the OP is listening sad

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 21:16:36

I am listening, just been clearing up the kitchen.

I really do want to take a stand but I don't know why I find it so bloody hard, and I do find it hard to just do what I should do.

It's easy to sit here and read and nod and agree with a lot of, most posts. And know what I should do. But then I have him in my other ear like the devil on my shoulder telling me it's my fault. I don't have a great deal of rl support so I end up feeling completely torn.

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 21:19:02

Sugarpaste, your post in particular has touched home with me.

Astley Wed 15-May-13 21:36:35

Please tell me you don't have your child calling this manchild 'Dad' or even worse actually thinking this is their Father?

He sounds utterly toxic and you are doing your child a huge disservice letting them think this is how a Dad would be.

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 21:43:53

DC doesn't call boyfriend dad, and I have explained in the simplest way I possibly can. However because he is all dc has ever known I think it is too much for dc to process, dc thinks boyfriends name is another name for dad. I haven't said this but dc can only comprehend what they see

AnyFucker Wed 15-May-13 21:45:48

exactly...and your dc is "seeing" lots of damaging lessons

Corygal Wed 15-May-13 21:46:33

Love, nothing you can do can fix this. He won't ever commit to you. You aren't going to get what you want.

I think a part of you knows this relationship is all over bar the shouting.

HamsterDam Wed 15-May-13 22:03:13

your dc will forget him soon, don't stay with him as a crap excuse for a dad. he is not setting a good example. my ds loved my ex still speaks about him sometimes it does make it harder but you will both be happier in the long run without him and the stress and disappointment he brings.
i would advice going no contact even with the child or its just delaying the inevitable, if he wanted to put your dc first he would commit to you both.
my ex was still seeing my ds not seen him for two months finally told him to fuck right off a week ago. it feels good

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 22:10:56

Can I just ask, I know its probably irrelevant amongst all the crap. But if he truly loved us and wanted a future, he'd move right? The fact he lives in a different town is minor yes? As were only 20-30 minutes drive apart, 21 miles. He knew I wouldn't move to him once dc had started school, and he didn't want me to move at the time. One he acts that I'm expecting a lot of him to move to my town, it shouldn't matter if you love someone should it?

AnyFucker Wed 15-May-13 22:14:32

No, it shouldn't matter. Does he have anything tying him to that town ? Dc's of his own ? I would respect that, but not much else, tbh.

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 22:18:21

He has no dcs and a lot of his family live 3 hours north so they're scattered about anyway.

AnyFucker Wed 15-May-13 22:20:03

Not seeing why the reluctance then

he is no good for you, anyway, so I would look on his refusal to commit as a lucky escape, tbh

you are not there yet though, I can see that

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 22:22:13

I've said it would be easier for him to move as I have dc settled in school, plus I have a flexible job which I can work around school hours which are like gold dust at the minute.

I'm not sure who I'm trying to convince.

AnyFucker Wed 15-May-13 22:24:07

It might be interesting to say you have considered everything and you have decided to upsticks and come live with him, no more questions asked

LokiTheCynicalCat Wed 15-May-13 22:24:45

If he really wanted to move in its you, he'd be looking for ways to make it work.

He's looking for reasons NOT to move in, because he doesn't want to, but finds it easier to blame "circumstances" like your DC's school needs, his work etc etc so that he doesn't look like the bad guy - because he really doesn't want to be part of a family.

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 22:24:49

I want to Fuck him off for good, really I do. I just cave in to his apologies and empty promises.

LokiTheCynicalCat Wed 15-May-13 22:25:14

with you, not its you.

AnyFucker Wed 15-May-13 22:27:14

then do it

LokiTheCynicalCat Wed 15-May-13 22:27:51

To be honest OP, you're only going to hear what you want to hear from him. Of course you fall for the pretty words and promises. They are exactly designed to do just that - get on your good side.

You know full well he doesn't mean it by now and it won't last, but you're still not going to see through him - really - until you are ready to.

I think you're getting there though.

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 15-May-13 22:30:09

Ha I'm sure he run a mile.

This is what I think Lola, we are both young, healthy adults with the ways and means to live together, if we BOTH wanted to. But boyfriend makes the most ridiculous excuses when he isn't up for doing something.

He did once try to tell me that the wee was coming from the upstairs toilet into the downstairs toilet when it was flushed. This was because I kept asking him why he had to leaving the downstairs toilet unflushed every day.

ImperialBlether Wed 15-May-13 22:41:08

He sounds a right twat, to be honest.

About the car. He obviously has enough money (why wouldn't he, if you're paying for his food and letting his stay with you for nothing?) and so he can afford to put money towards your car. That doesn't really mean anything. There's a saying about charity (not that you're a charitable case!) but that it's only good if it hurts - if you can throw money at a problem but not do without a little yourself as a result, then it's meaningless. It's the difference between the Queen giving you £1000 or your mum on a widow's pension giving you £1000. Do you see? The money doesn't mean much to him as there's more where that came from.

What would be good of him is if he simply pulled his weight. Not that he should do everything, but that he should buy food and cook 50% of the time. He should sort his own washing out. He should wash up. FFS, it's not much to ask. He doesn't do that, does he?

You are seeing the true measure of the man. He gives what he can afford to give - because it's money you don't have to spare, you see it as him being generous. You, on the other hand, do absolutely everything else, and he abuses it.

See him for the man he is and tell him to fuck off and let you find someone who deserves you.

AnyFucker Wed 15-May-13 22:46:10

You will never find a decent bloke while you let this crap one hang around

And he knows it. He gives you just enough to keep you on the hook

Jux Wed 15-May-13 23:00:03

Nasty nasty nasty man.

Agree with MadBusLady. He is abusing you and your child. Unteachable? Unteachable? That is such an outrageous thing to say, especially about a child. Don't let that become a prophecy by sticking to the little shit.

The grand gestures are nothing. Really, ey look like something to you, but to him they're just a way of reeling you back in and putting you back in your box. Cheap at the price.

Perhaps getting a bit of counselling for yourself would help you see more clearly what the arsewipe is doing and has been doing to you and your child?

Diagonally Wed 15-May-13 23:19:40

What's he been doing during his days off this week?

melbie Thu 16-May-13 03:21:16

I say this far too much but please read 'mr unavailable and the fall back girl' It will make so much sense. I have been you. Like you say from the outside it is so obvious but they know (not saying it is conscious) exactly how much to give you and when to keep you there. It is emotionally exhausting and destroys your self esteem because you constantly feel YOU are doing something to cause this. You are not

Mouseyinmyhousey Thu 16-May-13 06:52:29

He didn't actually say dc was unteachable. It's more he puts in 2 minutes helping dc on the bike then just gets fed up and says ' oh dc is too young and isn't interested, dc doesn't listen' because really he can't be bothered.

I've now no idea what he's doing with his time off. jobs round his house he says. I'm really not bothered if he wants some time to do stuff, But he lied about it, and it is a nit hurtful as he doesn't get loads of holiday, there's school hols coming up, but he'd obviously rather relax on his own than spend the time with us. Dcs room needs doing, and he hasn't offered to spend a day doing that, the more I write the more angry I get.

Mouseyinmyhousey Thu 16-May-13 06:58:24

Oh and boyfriend would say, he needs to time to get certain jobs done so he can do certain things to move in. But half of these jobs won't end up getting done, and the excuses will roll on. Plus last night he decided to text asking me if 'I would move' which says to me he has no intentions and is just putting everything 10 steps back again.

Mouseyinmyhousey Thu 16-May-13 07:02:31

And I do desperately want to end it, because I know deep down if he was any good for me we wouldn't be here. But I need hand holding through it. Telling him it's over is the easy bit, sticking to it when he's begging me back and promising everything I wanted is so much harder.

Walkacrossthesand Thu 16-May-13 07:03:26

Mousey, you really don't need this man in your life, do you. But you need to be absolutely sure of yourself when you decide to close the door on him, because he gets more from the relationship than you do and will try very hard to win you back without actually changing the terms & conditions

Walkacrossthesand Thu 16-May-13 07:09:27

Cross posted! I suggest you look back and 'count' the number of times you have had a conversation about where the relationship is going, and he's blocked the idea of planning a future together. They were all 'chances' for him to 'change his mind'. Factor in the amount that he knows this has made you unhappy, but that hasn't shifted him. Then, when youve dumped him and he's bleating about promising to change, you will know just how many chances he's had to change, and he's chosen not to do it. Promises are easy to make, and actions speak louder than words.

Mouseyinmyhousey Thu 16-May-13 07:14:33

Thank you walkacross, I don't think I could count there's so many times sad.

And I have become the queen of making excuses for him.

I don't even know if I'm so afraid of being single I'm willing to put up with this half parsed relationship, which is an awful way to be and certainly not the way I want to be.

Walkacrossthesand Thu 16-May-13 07:22:20

You're single now in many ways though, aren't you? You look after DC on your own, and you don't have a reliable loving partner to whom your needs are special and important (sorry if that sounds harsh). At least if you were single there would be some chance of meeting someone who did do these things. It's so not true that 'any relationship is better than none', you know - a good relationship is wonderful and worth holding out for, and single is better than a 'not good enough' relationship. We'll hold your hand!

catsmother Thu 16-May-13 07:48:37

No-one thinks it's easy to end a relationship. Most of us have been there too and it's not just about letting go of the person but grieving for what might have been, and for what you'd hoped for. It can be an excrutiating time and fear of going through all that sadness and anxiety is what makes many of us offer "second chances" again and again in the hope that this time things will come good.

However - in your case just think how often he's promised you what you want, and being totally honest, reflect on how often any of that has actually come to fruition. Think about these empty promises and ask yourself why, if he had any intention whatsoever in seeing these things through, would he wait until he was out on his ear before bringing these topics up ? I mean, why, if he wants to commit to you does he only ever show any interest when things have reached crisis point ? Good god - how many times are you going to let him raise your hopes and then drop you - again - from a huge height. The harsh fact is that he doesn't want what you want and he has proven this repeatedly.

But worse, far worse than not wanting to commit - and obviously, there is no law which compells anyone to commit if they don't want to - is the way he strings you along. Basically, he lies to you - again and again. He's playing games with you - throwing you just enough crumbs (which mean nothing at the end of the day) to engage your interest before he pulls yet another cruel trick on you. The holiday example is disgusting. And worst of all is that your child is also being affected by all this - however much you think they don't understand, they're absorbing the message that it's okay for men to treat women like this, at the very least, your DD's going to pick up on your sadness, stress and anxiety - all of which could be removed by getting this wanker out of your life and keeping him out. He's shown he's not committed either to the idea of taking on a parental role - and chances are that as time goes on he'd become more and more resentful about this, more and more lazy in helping out with DD, more and more scathing because again that aspect of your life is something he doesn't want to do. Forget what he says - words are cheap - and look at what he does. Actions speak louder than words is a cliche for a very good reason.

So why does he stick around ? Why does he "promise" you things ? Why does he make grand gestures every so often (even if it's not quite as impressive as it might first seem) ? Well, not being a psychologist I can't say for sure but I think it's fair to say he gets something out of this so called relationship and he doesn't want to relinquish that - at least not until it suits him to do so. I think the convenience of home cooked food has something to do with it - are you paying for all of that BTW ? He also has sex on tap when he wants it. But my hunch is that you're being used until something better comes along or until he gets fed up with you .... he's quite possibly a very lazy person who, if his mum has pampered him until recently, feels it's beneath him to do menial stuff like cooking (and washing ??). I also strongly suspect that he's very self centred, very arrogant and there's a big element of "how dare she dump me !" going on which is why as soon as you try to make a break, he comes back with all this promise crap that he has no actual intention of seeing through.

I'm sorry, but everything you've described - and I bet there's loads more isn't there - just screams that he doesn't like you. That you're just being used. For heavens sake dump him and block every form of communication with him. Don't read his emails, screen your calls, block his mobile. Do it for yourself and for your child. He's not making you happy and if you stay like this you'll become ever more unhappy with each passing year - wasted on a twat like him. There is someone out there for you who does want the same things you do and who'll treat both you and DD with respect. It might take a while to find him - and I'd recommend not even trying to find a new man for quite some time yet - just enjoy your own company, and DD's for a while - but ultimately, you're definitely never going to find happiness, whether that's on your own or with someone else, while you remained tied to someone who treats you with contempt.

Ask yourself if you'd be happy for your daughter if she had a "boyfriend" like this ? If my daughter was being treated the same way you are I'd want to rip his head off and I'm sure you'd feel the same way too. If you wouldn't accept this for your daughter then why accept it for yourself ?

And yes, it'll be hard .... but you can come on here 24/7 and there'll always be someone to chew things over with, to give you a metaphorical kick up the backside, some reassurance, or a bloody good laugh - or all three. Every time you waver - get on here and talk it through, rip his pathetic promises to shreds (if you've been silly enough not to block contact with him).

Please. Do this once and for all for you and DD.

Bunbaker Thu 16-May-13 07:48:42

"I can't understand the big grand gestures."

They are empty gestures and meaningless to him. This reminds me so much of a friendship DD had at primary school and the beginning of year 7.

This girl was very controlling and manipulative and "friends" with DD only when it suited her. It was what I would describe as a toxic friendship. She didn't want DD to have any other friends and used to spread lies about DD to dissuade other girls from being friends with her. At Christmas and birthdays she used to spend lots of money on DD and give her useless tat that had slogans on like "best friends" etc. I knew they were meaningless even then.

The "friendship" came to an abrupt end and DD made a new group of friends. These new friends don't blow hot and cold with her and DD's self confidence has increased hugely because she now has friends she can trust.

Get this man out of your life now before he sucks all your self confidence away. It will hurt at first, but the relief from the uncertainty is immeasurable IMO.

Mouseyinmyhousey Thu 16-May-13 07:56:56

Thanks for the replies I have to go to work now but I will pop on at my dinner because all of the messages are helpful to me.

Ok op. you've said you want to end it but the difficulty for you will be not relenting and taking him back when he tries to persuade you.

So don't give him the chance.

Say: this has to end now, it just isn't working for me. I don't want to go round the houses discussing it as I have thought long and hard before making this decision but now it is made. Please don't ring or come round or contact me any more, as it is important to me that I stick with my decision. I need to free myself to pursue a more suitable life for me and my child. Please respect my wishes.

And say it in a text.

Then do not take any calls from him or reply to any texts.

BIWI Thu 16-May-13 08:44:30

.... and then come here and talk to us, and we will all help you keep your resolve!

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Thu 16-May-13 08:55:48

You know, there are men out there who would be all of the positive things you list that are keeping you with this arsehole - but not the horrible bits that are dragging you down!

There is no reason to stay with this bloke.

He doesn't treat you as though he loves you and nobody deserves to be treated badly. He is giving your child horrible messages about how a man treats a woman and you are giving your child horrible messages about what a woman accepts in a relationship. When your child grows up and is looking for a relationship, what do you think they'll look for? What do you think they will think is normal?

I wonder if what you want is the family life and to be loved? But you have to understand that you are not going to get that from this man. He's not going to transform into what you wish he would be so that you can have the life you wish you had.

this is the man he is and this is the life you have with him.

You can either have this life with this person - or you can walk away.

GoatsHaveStrangeEyes Thu 16-May-13 09:01:39

He doesn't give a shit about you, not really. You will realise this one day.

You sound exactly like me about 5 years ago. My ex was very similar. Wouldn't commit, kept disappearing and not talking to me, kept picking fights to get away from me. He'd do the grand gesture when he came back and I'd fall for it every time.

It took me 7 years to realise he will never ever change. And he treats our dd in the same way he used to treat me.

You are strong enough to be without him and although it may not feel like it right now, you will be much happier without. No point holding on to what ifs because believe me it ain't gonna happen.

frissonpink Thu 16-May-13 09:03:26

I'm married to a 24 year old. We have a baby together.

He has never pulled emotional stunts like this tosser!

No. He's not too young to move in with you properly.

Erm, what exactly are his good points again? confused

He sounds like an immature knob. Leave him.

GoatsHaveStrangeEyes Thu 16-May-13 09:03:50

Oh and I have a wonderful dh now who genuinely cares about me. The difference is amazing. I've never felt so loved and secure.

oldwomaninashoe Thu 16-May-13 09:38:50

OP he probably does like you in his own way, when it suits him!
For some reason he didn't want you to go on holiday with his family, he doesn't want to commit after 4 years!!!!!!!!!!
He wants his freedom, his own space, when he chooses, the rest of the time you are a convenient companion ,cook, and sexual partner.
It suits HIM.
After 4 years he is never going to change.If you are happy for the status quo to carry on the way it is, then so be it.
But if you want more , some stability for your child and some committment, extricate yourself from this relationship and do not have him back when he next begs.
Yes it will be hard and upsetting initially, but give yourself the freedom to move forward.
He lies to you and is not to be trusted , would you ever feel really at ease with him long term and trust him?

Shmumty Thu 16-May-13 09:56:23

Imagine your life in 10 years time if you stay with him. Or 20. Or 40.

Run darling, run.

OrangeFootedScrubfowl Thu 16-May-13 10:56:31

I also think he has shown you what he wants out of the relationship, and if that isn't what you want for the rest of your life, you really ought to leave and find someone who does want the things you do.
He doesn't want to marry you or live with you or be a family. There doesn't have to be an overall explanation or a big reason, he just doesn't.

IrritatingInfinity Thu 16-May-13 11:24:06

How old are you OP (roughly smile ) ?

Mouseyinmyhousey Thu 16-May-13 12:07:59

Just to update, I'm 28 btw he's 30.

I told him today that it's over and why. He said he doesn't want it to be over as were too good together, he said he's not happy because he's not living a settled life, between mine and his place, and that he doesn't want to move to my town or my home as it doesn't feel like his own, and wants me to move to his town.

He has said this a long time before but never puts anything into action. I am also in a very lucky position that I rent from my gran, a lovely little house which I am likely to inherit, if however I were to move out, it is likely my gran would sell the house, or pass it to my parents to sell, and I would very unlikely be able to go back. I worry that if I was to upsticks and move , I'd not only be uprooting dc from a good school, but if the relationship didn't work out, I'd be left homeless as I'd never find a place to rent as nice and secure as where I am now, and I'd unlikely be able to take a mortgage by myself as I work part time around dcs school hours. I've always said it would be easier for boyfriend to move to me as we could test the waters so to speak on living together, and.also save up to buy somewhere really nice.

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Thu 16-May-13 12:11:32

I really would advise that you don't make yourself so vulnerable. It would be a HUGE mistake to make to just chase round after someone who treats you so badly.

Mouseyinmyhousey Thu 16-May-13 12:16:09

That's how I feel, we could have moved to his town ages ago before all the ups ans downs and broken trust. I don't now feel secure enough in the relationship to leave my home and uproot dc sad sad sad

TigerSwallowTail Thu 16-May-13 12:23:04

So is it over between you both?

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Thu 16-May-13 12:23:42

I don't blame you. You'd have to be a total fool to do that to your child. You are being very sensible and responsible to not allow him to charm you into making your child very vulnerable. Your primary responsibility is to your child and keeping a secure roof over their head.

You shouldn't be with someone who ever acts like they don't even like you. Even if sometimes they're really rather nice. Someone who loves you never acts like they hate your guts. Someone who doesn't like you can, otoh, pretend to be nice and kind sometimes in order to keep hold of you.

Don't doubt yourself. You and your child deserve more than to be treated like this.

Mouseyinmyhousey Thu 16-May-13 12:31:00

I've said its over but he's not really listening

Mouseyinmyhousey Thu 16-May-13 12:32:01

He said we just need to iron out our differences and we shouldn't waste all these years

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Thu 16-May-13 12:44:39

Well, he doesn't need to listen. You don't need his permission or his agreement to end the relationship. you just need to say this is over and if you don't accept it and leave me alone, I will contact the police.

Nicolaeus Thu 16-May-13 13:05:33

I think you shouldn't waste any more years with him.

MadBusLady Thu 16-May-13 13:13:36

Sunk costs fallacy. Don't throw good years after bad.

And just by the by, imagine how much more persuasive that line would be if (god forbid) you DID move to his town. Not only would have have invested time, you'd have left your support network and lost your lovely house and be even more invested in flogging this dead horse of a relationship.

Now again, why do you think he might want you to move to his town?

MadBusLady Thu 16-May-13 13:15:15

Agree with Hec though, he doesn't need to listen. What he thinks/says from this point on is irrelevant, you don't have to listen to it or tie yourself up in knots trying to analyze it.

Jux Thu 16-May-13 14:36:22

Nonsense from him. He's wasted 4 years already, and just wants to waste more.

Do not under any circumstances give up your home. If you move into his town and his house he will become a nightmare. Please believe me.

catsmother Thu 16-May-13 14:46:24

Well done you for telling him - now see it through please for both yourself and your daughter.

As others have already said you don't need him to listen for it to be over as far as you're concerned. You don't need his permission to end things. Please block him - from your email, your phone and so on. This isn't a spur of the moment decision you've made after a short relationship but something you've tried to do many times before. You know don't you that the "too good together" is yet more lying crap - harsh but true. What sort of "good together" boyfriend would be so cruel as to invite you on holiday then tell you you can't come as if you're some sort of naughty little kid ? That was cruel. And if you're so good together then why won't he commit ?

Please please don't have any more communication with him. Yes - he's suggesting you move to his town now but I bet if you set that in motion and it looked like becoming a reality he'd come up with another excuse to postpone this. In any case, yet again this suggestion would benefit him - it'd be you doing all the running - again - your child being uprooted from school. It's far far easier for a man on his own to move and so bloody what if it'd mean him being all of 30 mins from his job ? Boo hoo - most people would count themselves lucky to have such a short trip to work. Anyway that's by the by because you're NOT going to consider that - are you !! The housing setup you have now is worth its weight in gold and you need to hold onto that. Don't let this man sweet talk you into giving up your security.

Ignore him from now on. Remember that however much you're hurting now, each day that passes will make you feel slightly better as you begin to realise what a huge deadweight has actually been lifted from you. The anxiety and humiliation of constantly wondering why he won't commit, questionning what's wrong with you etc will disappear because he's not in your life any more and therefore such thoughts are irrelevant now. Indeed, what I'm certain will happen if you give yourself a chance to feel it is that you'll start to get angry about him not committing, angry about him stringing you along, angry that he lied over and over, angry that he was cruel and angry that you wasted so much time on him. Wait till that anger kicks in and your resolve will strengthen like you can't imagine - now - but it will happen and when it does you'll feel empowered and really proud of yourself for kicking this wanker into touch.

In the meantime, keep coming here if you need to. Most of us have been in a similar situation and know how it feels.

Jux Thu 16-May-13 14:48:01

And "Iron out our differences"!!!? Haven't you been trying to that rather unsuccessfully for a looooong time already. Failing due to his pretence of cooperation and willingness?

honestly, there are a lot of good men around who would love to give you everything you want, and be capable of doing it too. This man isn't one of them.

burberryqueen Thu 16-May-13 14:54:03

apparently men (or women i suppose) who do not 'let' you finish things between you are a BIG RED FLAG

NicknameTaken Thu 16-May-13 15:02:05

Well done! Now you've got to be very careful - he will try to wheedle his way back in. He'll not going to let all those free meals and sex on tap disappear without a protest, is he? Don't meet him, don't have phone conversations with him, don't try to convince him that you have good reasons to call it quits. He is not going to acknowledge your reasons. Don't look to him to validate your decision. You have to stop all contact now, and stay stopped.

Very proud of you, btw!

Good decision Mousey!

As far as you are concerned it is over

Therefore it is over

Doesn't matter if he doesn't want to listen. There is nothing more for him to listen to

No more talk required.

Just don't answer his calls now. Or his texts. If he comes round, just tell him: I said it was over and I mean it.

You have wasted enough years.

Don't wait another minute.

Cheers wine

Mouseyinmyhousey Thu 16-May-13 15:25:44

I'm surprised how strong the reaction is that I should not even consider moving to his town.

But I do realise I'm in a good position and I do not want to uproot dc for a relationship that's so unsettled already.

I suppose a lot of things such as the holiday, I've forgiven him for, as they were quite a while ago.

I do also agree that even if I were to consider moving, the reality would be it would never happen on his part anyway.

I'm going to do my best to stay strong and not believe him ifhe starts promising the world.

He's had enough time and chances hasn't he? it's not as though what I'm asking for is unreasonable.

Why are you even going to talk to him again?

Mouseyinmyhousey Thu 16-May-13 15:44:11

Not to say I am but I think it will be hard to now just completely block him out, probably because perhaps I'm not seeing it as as bad as it perhaps is?

JamieandtheMagicTorch Thu 16-May-13 15:46:57

It's soooo selfish of him to even ask you to come to his town.

It's such crap for him to talk about ironing out differences when he is rubbish at making effort other than opening his wallet every now and then

Would it help if I said I don't think he's "bad" or abusive or those things you don't want to hear and make you lose your resolve because they aren't quite ringing true to you ?

It's enough to say that he is not the man for you and your child.

IrritatingInfinity Thu 16-May-13 15:50:10

Gosh, OP. I hope it all works out OK. I almost never tell people to LTB but there was nothing in any of your posts that suggested there was any other sensible thing to do.
Of course he is not listening, I would have been suprised if he had.

If you know what you are doing is the right thing (and IMO it is) Then there is no reason to discuss it with him. As you know he is manipulative and can make you feel as if it is all your fault. Don't listen to him

Good luck, be strong.

Mouseyinmyhousey Thu 16-May-13 15:51:33

I suppose, that there's still a tiny bit of me that hopes, wishes he'd sort himself out (his words not mine).

But I know that I don't want to still be on this merry go round in 5 years time

JamieandtheMagicTorch Thu 16-May-13 15:54:52

Won't/can't who knows why he doesn't sort himself out?

But he is 30, not 19, and he's had 4 years with you, with you telling him quite clearly what it is you need.....

Yes it will be hard.

But many things worth doing are hard.

Maybe you could read through your op again and in fact the whole thread, to remind you of why you wanted to LTB, and why so many people agreed with you that it was the right thing to do.

If you keep talking to him now, it is like you don't really mean what you have said and are open to persuasion.

If you keep on doing the same things, following the same pattern, doing what you've always done, you will get what you've always got.

If you want things to change, then you need to change your approach.

Staying in a relationship with someone who you have to drag kicking and screaming to every stage is not going to be satisfying.

Wouldn't you prefer to be with someone who genuinely wants the same things as you in life? And who feels lucky to be allowed to be with you?

JamieandtheMagicTorch Thu 16-May-13 15:57:23

hear hear Scarlet

Mouseyinmyhousey Thu 16-May-13 16:09:49

Yes, absolutely Scarlett and Jamie. Think I'm just so used to banging my head up the same brick wall it's become a habit/addiction even.

I can't grasp why he tries to carry on the relationship when he knows he's no intentions of committing. Argh, but stuff him.

Can I return to this thread if I need a bit of hand holding/sense shaking into me.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Thu 16-May-13 16:12:15

because he can, because it gives him what he needs, and because he puts himself ahead of you .......

And please do return.

Please be careful - be prepared for a sudden annoincemt from him that maybe he could move in with you after all. Do not fall for it.

MadBusLady Thu 16-May-13 16:38:22

I think you articulated yourself why the whole move-to-his-town thing is so worrying. If it went wrong, you'd have uprooted your daughter and lost your house for nothing. The stakes are much, much higher for you.

If you can see all that, so can he. And yet he suggests it - and doesn't even suggest moving to your town to a different house, which would take care of the "not feeling like his" problem. That's what made me think there was an element of manipulation in it. It suits him very well to put you at such a disadvantage, because it means you're more likely to put up with more crap.

By the way, I think all this really went wrong at the chatrooms thing, which you mentioned in passing almost as a teething problem. If somebody won't respect your wishes enough to stop chatting up other women, there's not a lot of hope really.

MadBusLady Thu 16-May-13 16:40:14

Sorry, I keep saying daughter, I don't know why, you haven't said! DC.

BerylStreep Thu 16-May-13 17:03:21

Well done Mousey.

If he had wanted to commit to you (and your little one) he would have done it long before now. And it's not even just a logistical problem about whose house / town you live in.

He manufactures rows, blows hot and cold, and criticises your child. Flirts with women online. Personally I would have cut him dead after the holiday thing. Cut out the dead wood and make way for wonderful people in your life.

You said earlier that you weren't sure what to say to people. Firstly it is none of anyone's business, but something along the lines of 'he couldn't really commit. I'm need to make space for Mr Right.' and not getting in to any other conversation would do it.

Mouseyinmyhousey Thu 16-May-13 17:07:05

I'm really glad that people can see why it makes less sense for me to move, and that it would be a mistake for me to move. As much as the dream is nice, the reality has the potential to be terrible, and it would be far, far easier for him to move.

And yes he probably will say at some point that he will move in. He's done it before. He even did 'move in' once, for two weeks, then left one morning and took all his stuff while I was still asleep.

BIWI Thu 16-May-13 17:07:57

Well done, Mousey - you have been very brave. Now you have to prepare yourself for the onslaught from him. After all, you have asserted yourself, and he will be cross that you have challenged him. How very dare you! grin

Keep talking to us and we'll all hold your hand!

flowers for you. And some wine and bear.

Mouseyinmyhousey Thu 16-May-13 17:11:35

I think the telling people thing is because I don't really let on apart from to one or two people how bad things were. But I know you can't stay in an awful relationship just because of what people may think or ask.

It will be hard as I'm losing plans and hope, just things like our Summer holiday, plans we had for my birthday, you know the nice stuff we did have? But I guess I will get used to the change and make new plans.

IrritatingInfinity Thu 16-May-13 17:13:05

Can you enlist the help of some RL friends or family? Perhaps It would be good for you to have something else to think about.

BerylStreep Thu 16-May-13 17:16:01

There will be other holidays and birthdays.

Jux Thu 16-May-13 17:56:40

And the other holidays and birthdays will be so much better, as they won't be empty gestures, but will come from the heart.

You have done really well. Can you delete him from your phone and block his calls and texts? Emails can go in a separate folder which you can empty without reading.

It will be hard at first, but you will quickly find your feet without him dragging you down and causing you worry and stress.

Keep going, it'll be worth it.

BIWI Thu 16-May-13 18:04:28

Can you make some new, nice plans, for you and DC to do stuff together? A holiday, perhaps?

MadBusLady Thu 16-May-13 18:28:02

He even did 'move in' once, for two weeks, then left one morning and took all his stuff while I was still asleep.

shock That is just thoroughly nasty.

Agree with BIWI, make some nice plans! It takes about a month to break a habit. If you can stay strong and keep yourself distracted for one month, you can look forward to a brighter future with room for someone who actually wants to commit to you and be nice to you in it.

catsmother Thu 16-May-13 18:34:22

I completely missed the online flirting stuff. How bloody disrespectful and yet another reason why you've done the right thing.

As for telling people, it's entirely up to you of course but you might consider telling more people exactly how bad it was. I know when you're in the thick of it you feel ashamed to admit what goes on sometimes - and of course there's the thing of not wanting to turn others against him in case you had both managed to work things out but that no longer applies (as he's had too many chances already) and you shouldn't protect him any longer. It might add to your determination to stay apart the more people you tell as - to be blunt (and no offence intended) - you might then look like a bit of a nit if you confessed how awful he was/is and then went back to him. The other thing about sharing more in real life is that hopefully you'd get lots of sympathy and lots of support.

catsmother Thu 16-May-13 18:36:30

Totally agree with BIWI about planning some nice stuff for you and DD. Just think that without all that free food you'll no longer have to buy you should have a fair amount to do something useful/fun with instead!

STOP TALKING TO HIM.

you have ENDED it. block his number pleeeeaaaase

YoniBottsBumgina Thu 16-May-13 18:55:19

Hand holding.

Of course you can and should let yourself grieve the loss of your plans, of your hope for what the relationship might have been. But please also remember that these things never would have happened anyway, and whatever he promises he just doesn't see it in the same way you do - his end goal is not the same. It's okay to grieve and be sad about it, not so helpful to dwell on how to make it happen or entertain any proposals he might cone to you with.

I agree, make plans for you and DC. smile is there anything big that you've always wanted to do but never had the means?

GoodbyePorkPie Thu 16-May-13 19:00:53

"He even did 'move in' once, for two weeks, then left one morning and took all his stuff while I was still asleep."

shock

Who the fuck DOES that to someone they are supposed to love?

And yes he probably will say at some point that he will move in.

Not if you have ended it and have stopped communicating with him, he won't.

YoniBottsBumgina Thu 16-May-13 19:01:43

I hope that makes sense - I mean yes the holiday or whatever may well have happened but he'd still be his stroppy old self, ruining parts of it, that whatever hope you had for the relationship in general, realistically these things never get better, but worse. It's totally normal and ok to feel sad but don't romanticise it and look back with rose tinted specs on, and realise that what you're sad for isn't real but was a dream or fantasy.

SugarPasteGreyhound Thu 16-May-13 19:17:01

"We're too good together". If that were true, then why are you unhappy?

He's telling you what he thinks you want to hear. The refusal to accept it's over is not romantic, it's controlling. What he's telling you is that he is not prepared to listen to what you have to say, because it doesn't suit him.

If he genuinely cared about you, he'd be upset, he'd want to know what he could do to make it work. It's extremely telling that his answer to "fix" things is for you to move! So you are unhappy in the relationship, therefore you must be the one to make the effort - how does that work? Why are you responsible for uprooting not only yourself but your child as well, just to suit him?

Cut contact, change your number if you have to, but you must not talk to him. Be aware that he is going to continue to pester you, he might get quite persistent. This is not evidence of his love or romantic- it's evidence of the fact that he's realised that his cushy number has seen the light and has abandoned ship.

Every time he chases you, ask yourself why he could not make this effort earlier in your relationship. Remind yourself that he fucked off in the night. Remind yourself that ordinary people who care about their partners do not behave like this.

Above all, remind yourself that he not only doesn't care about you, but he doesn't care about your child either. If he did he wouldn't be suggesting that you take your DC out of school and move to be nearer to him, just because it suits him.

Ignore, ignore, ignore. You owe him nothing.

Stay strong Mousey. This is best for you and DC.
Maybe print one of the above posts that hits home for you, and stick it on your fridge door? And keep coming here. We'll keep you strong.

Mouseyinmyhousey Thu 16-May-13 21:46:21

I don't have half as much rl support as I could do with. I mean I have people who will be a shoulder to cry on. But most people are too busy with their own families, and even having a friend over doesn't really replace the company of a relationship does it?

I'm quite good at just plodding along getting on with things, and I will make some nice plans for me and dc.

I like some of the ideas for staying strong, and a lot of the points are very valid.

We had the best chance we could of really and I don't really have any regrets other than letting it drag on too long, I gave it my best shot so I certainly can't look back and say I didn't try, or I didn't treat him well enough!

I'm supposed to be going on his sisters hen night in a couple of months and arranging it via her friend. Would you tell the friend we've split up so I won't be involved, as he certainly won't tell his family he always pretends things are great. Or would you just ignore it and let him explain why to his sister and friend, I know courtesy would be for me to, but his family will have a big shock and probably want to know why etc.

Diagonally Thu 16-May-13 21:54:18

This is also a great list for your fridge...helped me a lot when trying to go NC with someone once

www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/im-not-that-woman-an-ode-for-every-woman-who-has-loved-lost-and-forgotten-her-value/

JamieandtheMagicTorch Thu 16-May-13 21:56:49

I would take control. It will be hard, but it will be courteous and will make it "real". I'd tell the sister.

BIWI Thu 16-May-13 22:07:36

You need to tell people - then it will be real/tangible. And then you can really move on.

Mouseyinmyhousey Thu 16-May-13 22:13:43

I like that list, it's a bit depressing though as much of it applies to me and the stuff I've put up with

IrritatingInfinity Thu 16-May-13 23:06:34

I would tell the sister and friend. Keep it short and factual. Wish them well for the future and leave it at that.

Jux Thu 16-May-13 23:31:18

Yes, deal with it yourself. He is very likely not to say anything at all, leaving you looking like a rude boor, or he will make something up about what a bitch you are etc.

Tell her the bald truth. Don't feel the need to dress it up nicely. 'I have endedit as he is not to be trusted." That pretty well covers everything, doesn't it? Then let her rage at her brother.

flippinada Fri 17-May-13 07:25:29

Mousey , you've gone the right thing for your and your DC but it's natural to feel sad and hurt, mourning the relationship you hoped for.

One day you'll look back on this and be proud of yourself, even if it doesn't feel like it now.

GoatsHaveStrangeEyes Fri 17-May-13 08:28:02

You know that even if you did move to his town that it would never work out right? You would constantly be on edge waiting for the moment he drops you again -which he certainly will.

You cannot have a relationship with a man like this. Eventually he would have shattered your trust so much that you will only resent him more anyway.

You are doing the right thing, it just may take a while to see that. Cut contact with him. He will probably show you more attention now that you want to end it but do not fall for it, this is not a man who has magically changed overnight. Best of luck op, your posts remind me of me in one of the worst times of my life. There is someone out there who will treat you with love and respect -for its just not him and never will be.

BerylStreep Fri 17-May-13 09:23:03

That baggage reclaim article is excellent Diagonally.

I would tell the sister, perhaps not immediately, but in a couple of weeks - 'We broke up - I deserve better' may be a good line.

I know it will feel weird and lonely to begin with. 4 years is a long time. But I am a great believer in making way for new people in your life, whether it is friends or partners.

I remember years ago I had a friend who was really toxic - she didn't really like me, and put me down all the time, poisoned other friendships and relationships. I was going from one boyfriend to another who weren't really that interested in me or I wasn't that into them. Another friend had a fortune teller night at her house, and when it was my time to see the woman, she told me she could see I was surrounded by people who weren't right for me, and to cut out the dead wood from my life. I don't really believe all the fortune teller malarky, but I recognised good advice when I saw it, and I did exactly that. I went nc with my 'friend' and the friend was furious - inundated me with phone calls, messages, calls to work - you name it. Her behaviour is exactly the same as the controlling abusers that you read about on here.

It felt very empowering. Soon after I took up a sport, and met so many wonderful people through that, 15 years later I still have wonderful friends I met. It wouldn't have happened if I was still allowing myself to be cowed by my former friend.

Sorry for the essay, but it will be ok. Honestly.

Mouseyinmyhousey Fri 17-May-13 19:33:27

I'd appreciate it people don't all yell at me for speaking to him.

Last night he was texting saying he's sorry for being an asshole and can we just forget it all and make up etc. Today he's rang me and I spoke to him, just wanted to hear what he had to say.

He wanted to come over tonight, I told him no and that it really is over, I'm not messing around no more, I briefly explained why and how I wasn't waiting around a moment longer for him to make his mind up if I'm what he wants. He said how I am what he wants, he is committed, I know he takes his time with things and he'd always get round to moving in etc. He said he's not fussed about marriage at the moment but he probably would eventually. I said that that's fine for him and he's free to live as he chooses, but how it means a lot to me so I'm free to move on with my own choices. I also said I was fed up of all the lies and disappearing in moods for days and even weeks at a time, keeping me at a distance from his family and how I wasn't prepared to put up with any of it for a single day longer.

He then tried to say how we've 'only' been together for 4 years and it's not that long, all along I kept saying that his opinions and choices are his but mine are mine and I have the right to live and feel the way I choose and not deny my feelings. Then he bought dc into it, and how he's attached to dc. In the end he said he supposes he is a bit scared of making a big commitment, but that doesn't mean he's going anywhere or I'm not what he wants in life.

Then he started saying how he won't accept we're over, and I must still care to be still speaking to him. So I once again told him what I thought and ended the call telling him not to contact me again. He's just been texting saying I'm so good for him, he can't switch his feelings off and he's so tired of messing about too.

It's all just bla, bla in my opinion, actions speak louder than words. I'm not asking for the world. Just a natural progression in a relationship of living together really. We've had the best chance we could have, dc was only a baby when we met so there's never been any issues there, dc is a lovely laid back happy child who thinks the world of ex boyfriend, there was no ex around to complicate anything and I've always made lots of time for the relationship as well as family time we've had loads of fun going off to hotels and days ot while dc was with grandparents. We got on really well, loads in common, generally speaking, his family all like me and we get on great. The problems have all been his own doing.

Please before anyone says he's been using me and doesn't want to give up his cosy set up. While I'm sure that's probably true, it's a bit hard for me to see it like that, as yes I'd cook for him during the week, do washing, bed to sleep in, he'd alway take us out for lovely meals on weekends, or arrive laden with bags full of nice food for the weekend, I could never really accuse him of being tight with money.

I do know that there's no future for us, for whatever reason he just won't take the next step, I think somethings just snapped in me. But I don't think he's taking me very seriously at the minute.

BIWI Fri 17-May-13 19:38:19

But you have told him it's over. Whether he takes you seriously or not is neither here nor there. It's your decision.

Please don't tell me you're going to let him come back ... confused

MadBusLady Fri 17-May-13 19:41:08

Well, he's not taking you seriously because it's not in his nature to take your feelings seriously. You've got plenty of evidence of that. And while I don't mean to yell, because you said all the right things, talking to him just gives him more reasons not to take you seriously. Because that gives him a way to sweet-talk himself back in.

BerylStreep Fri 17-May-13 19:43:33

Mousey, you are sounding very strong. It seems such a shame that there was so much potential, however you are right, he will never take the next step, and even if he did, as a result of an ultimatum, would he be a committed and loving husband all the time?

(having said that, I did have the 'no diamond, no deal' convo with my now DH, but it wasn't after 4 years and lots of false starts) <hypocrite> blush

Mouseyinmyhousey Fri 17-May-13 19:43:39

No, I think the conversation we had proves he's nowhere near going to change, not that I thought he would. I suppose there's a tiny part of me that hopes the shock of me ending it might make him pull himself together, but I know it almost never works like that in real life.

It is my decision, it IS my decision, I know that.

I mean the fact he hasn't made a commitment may not be bad enough if it wasn't for all the other stupid horrible stunts he pulls.

It's just amazing that despite me spelling it out clear as day it still doesn't sink in to his thick skull.

Mouseyinmyhousey Fri 17-May-13 19:51:00

Thank you all, and Beryl, can you understand what I'm saying about how we had the best chance we could? It's probably just how I feel, but it's not as though I can think oh well his mum never liked me, or we argued about this or that, or we bored eachother, or my dc didn't get on with him or anything like that.

I know it can happen, my sister and her now husband were together for 10 years before they tied the knot. They did live together but, she wasn't on the deeds of the house, after she decided to move out and get a place of her own he proposed and a few years on they are really happy. But how long am I supposed to wait? It's not just about getting married, it's the fact he won't even live together, he struggles to even leave a tshirt at my house, he goes in moods and depressions over nothing and I don't know if I'm coming or going. It's not that I'm desperate for a ring on my finger because I'm not, I'm just desperate for stability and normality. Just being able to book a holiday or makes plans without worrying there will be some big drama and we won't be able to go.

Then he started saying how he won't accept we're over, and I must still care to be still speaking to him.

That's why people are suggesting you don't engage further with him now you've made your decision. If you continue talking to each other he is taking that as encouragement and a sign you may relent.

Well done, sounds as though you've managed to say many things you wanted to. You've been strong. And I'm sure it was hard.

Mouseyinmyhousey Fri 17-May-13 19:52:36

Oh and he did say ok I'll move in tomorrow, but I said I don't want him to do it because he's being forced, I want him to do it because he wants to and it makes him happy. He just went of track and said that I make him happy.

Mouseyinmyhousey Fri 17-May-13 19:54:53

Yes I understand that it's best not to, especially now as I have had my chance to just say my bit, I should not need to repeat it.

I am making the right decision aren't I?

wordyBird Fri 17-May-13 19:55:16

He's very used to pursuing his own agenda at any cost, Mouseyin... he's not likely to stop now.

He'll keep pegging away at you.

......he won't accept we're over, and I must still care to be still speaking to him.... <-- he's explicitly spelled out the reason you have to do No Contact as soon as you can. Not easy! But keep trying..

I like the way you hear and respect your own feelings in all this. This is what will get you through. Well done to you.

wordyBird Fri 17-May-13 19:56:15

Yes, the only possible decision. Think of his attitude to your DC.

flippinada Fri 17-May-13 19:56:17

I don't think anyone would feel cross with you for talking to him, that's understandable.

However I do think you need yup be in your guard. He's turning on a charm offensive because you're asserting yourself and he's worried about losing his cushy billet (sorry if that sounds blunt)

If you feel yourself softening towards him, remind yourself of the horrible way he speaks to and about your DC and the spiteful strop over the holiday.

flippinada Fri 17-May-13 19:57:02

"to be on your guard"...auto correct fail!

flippinada Fri 17-May-13 19:59:36

The "you must care" and "I don't accept its over" attitude are big red flags. It's all about him and what he wants, isn't it?

I agree it's great that you are thinking about what you want mousey. You've probably thrown him for a loop!

Mouseyinmyhousey Fri 17-May-13 20:14:13

Thanks all, I think I've come a long way from say 6 months ago, when I was putting my own thoughts and opinions to one side, even denying them to myself, trying to be the 'cool' girlfriend so to speak.

He persuaded me that I was mental for wanting more commitment, and for just wanting to be treated with basic respect and courtesy. everything was always my fault, he rarely apologised for things.

I'm ashamed to admit this but he even had me agreeing to terms and conditions that I was not allowed to ring him on his days at home, and I'm not one for ringing over and over or for long drawn out conversations, but just a quick goodnight call, or a how's your day. I'd get a text response of 'what do you want'. The chatting with other women from chatrooms, I don't think he's done this for at least the last year btw, but I was wrong for asking him not to do that as 'nothing was going on it was just speaking'. I'm not on about forums like this btw either of a shared interest, but dating chatrooms and the like. I wasn't allowed to be annoyed if he ditched plans we'd made at the last minute. I mean there were many times he was supposed to be coming round and he'd text at the last minute simply saying 'I'm not coming' not even a bloody reason why, and I daren't question that or I'd be accused of being controlling.

But something clicked in me one day and I thought no I don't have to feel wrong for wanting certain things in a relationship, I felt more able to voice my feelings. I have to say there has been improvements since I've stood up to him, but too little too late.

catsmother Fri 17-May-13 20:16:27

I don't want to yell at you either - all I'd like to say is that your approach to him on the phone last night sounded very strong and good on you for telling him like it is.

However - as others have said, it's irrelevant whether or not he "accepts" your decision. Your decision is your decision and him being unhappy about that doesn't alter the fact it's been made. It seems though that what he's trying to do now is wear you down - as he's done before - with various vague promises (him saying he's not fussed about marriage for example, but "probably would" in the future is really rather insulting and is another case of him dangling a carrot in front of you - I bet if you let him the marriage promise would never come to fruition) and compliments.

I know you told him never to contact you again - well done. But I think in order for him to take you seriously you must also be prepared to rebuff any further attempts to communicate with you. You've allowed him some airtime to say what he wants to say but I think if you respond at all to him again he'll see that as there being a glimmer of hope still, and he'll just pester you all the more. Really, I think you need to block his number, block his email, don't answer the door to him and so on. As you say yourself, while the lack of commitment he's shown is both frustrating and hurtful, there are also all the rather more nasty things he's done - like doing a disappearing act when you were asleep, like the holiday that never was, like the online women, like unwarranted criticism of DC. I think those things are what make your decision all the more the right one because the way he's treated you on several occasions shows a really unpleasant, cruel streak in him for which - unless you've not told us - he's never properly explained or apologised for.

Hopefully, once he gets used to absolutely NO response from you the idea that you're serious and you mean will start to sink into his "thick skull"! Apart from anything else, no-one could possibly accuse you of not having given him and this relationship a fair chance - and by never speaking to him again I think you'll be doing yourself a favour too .... because it's never pleasant to have to pore over all the whys and wherefores of a failed relationship, and last night must have been stressful and upsetting for you despite the way you handled it so strongly. You definitely don't want to have to keep doing that for goodness knows how long.

I really hope he gets the message sooner rather than later - and if you block him, and don't have to hear from him, whether or not he "gets it" won't be your concern any longer and you can start to look forward not back.

Fluffycloudland77 Fri 17-May-13 20:20:52

When someone tells you who they are, LISTEN.

He's told you who he is many times.

Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii Fri 17-May-13 20:21:38

You can't be suprised that he does not think you mean what you say. You have said it all before to him and not really meant it (or changed your mind). You relationships has been full of empty talk. By both of you.

You have to show you mean it. Block his calls, block Facebook and don't respond to him.

Good luck OP. I think you are doing the right thing by ending the relationship.

catsmother Fri 17-May-13 20:22:20

X- posted with your last post.

I'm glad to see there's increasing anger each time you say a bit more about what went on - and so there should be! What you've just described about the "terms and conditions" you had to abide by is horribly controlling and disrespectful and yes - he obviously tried to make you feel you were wrong for objecting to stuff that the vast majority of normal women would object to. As I said before, I think his unwillingness to commit was the least of your problems - his horrid attitude to you was far more worrying and no way does anyone deserve to be treated the way you were.

Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii Fri 17-May-13 20:24:21

Sorry my post is a bit garbled.....

Mouseyinmyhousey Fri 17-May-13 20:30:00

catsmother thanks, the cruel stuff he's done, well I haven't listed the half of it or the worst of it, and I won't, but there's worse than I've said, he has half heartedly apologised for some of it, and for others blamed me, or made it out to be not that bad, but it really is that bad.

My intention now is to stay strong and ignore.

My questions is still, and I know noone can really answer it for sure, why he still wants to keep this thing going after he knows what I think, and he has no intentions of changing, and I know people say he's got a cushy set up, and perhaps he has. But he's not all bad, it's like he's two sides, I mean this is the guy who went out at driving round shops at near midnight to find a 24 hour when we ran out of bread for dcs party sandwiches, this is the man who drove me 3 hours to my sisters wedding then took himself all the way home, then back again for the day because my old car might not have made the journey, the man who wants to buy me presents when I've taken him shopping for his birthday presents. Why so nice but yet so nasty?

MadBusLady Fri 17-May-13 20:33:10

You're doing great mousey. flowers

I am making the right decision aren't I?

I suspect we can't assuage those lingering doubts you have - all the stuff we've already said would have done it by now if we could. You can only take one day at a time, refuse/cut all contact, and let the answer become clear in your own mind. catsmother is right, you are sounding different with each post, so I think you'll get clarity pretty soon.

It's ok to have setbacks though. You're mourning something you thought was other than it really was. The phone call must have been hard. Maybe a small cry and a small wine?

Mouseyinmyhousey Fri 17-May-13 20:33:36

I have empty talked yes, BUT the only reason I got back with him was because he made certain promises, he told me that he'd realised what he wanted, he painted a picture of us buying the house, having the family life, and it hasn't surfaced, I only got back together last time because of the promises he made and he knew that.

Officershitty Fri 17-May-13 20:48:02

Don't want to read and run. Stop analysing him and he did this, he did that (I used to do this) and concentrate on yourself. You sound like you're starting to do well. I know that you have spent a lot of time and effort on him but spend that time and effort on yourself so that you are happy and when you are ready you meet someone who deserves you.

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Fri 17-May-13 21:02:00

Why does he want to keep it going? Well, it's nice having a gf. You're attractive, and fun to be with, and being with you makes him feel good about himself - BUT he doesn't expect you to make any demands on him. You're just an actor in the play of HIS life, there to make it more interesting (as well as easier, with the cooking and washing that people have pointed out).

Does that make sense? It's all about him. He wants to keep you because it's working for him. He's not listening to you now because what you want has never really come into it for him.

Evidence of his not listening or taking you seriously: You say it's over and he says OK I'll move in tomorrow. Ha!!

You're sounding strong, well done - when he grinds you down so that you feel less strong (as is unfortunately likely to happen in the next few days or weeks), reread this thread. And of course keep posting for handholding.

What is the next step ? If it's your house, he needs to move out.

Pack up anything that has come back in of & tell him it's over & you want his keys back.

If he refuses, wait till he's gone, then get a locksmith in, change the locks & leave his stuff on the doorstep & text hm they need collecting.

Job done.

Mouseyinmyhousey Fri 17-May-13 21:26:26

Yes that does make a lot of sense charlotte, particuarly about what I want not coming into things, that has always been the case really, and I suppose the nice things he's done have been relatively easy for him haven't they, although they seem nice on the surface. And that's all the more horrible isn't it, because he's not respecting my wishes.

I don't feel very strong because I know I'm going to start missing him terribly soon. But things are starting to make more sense in my mind, I've stopped blaming myself and it's starting to sink in that the future I wanted with him really is never going to happen.

YoniBottsBumgina Fri 17-May-13 21:30:04

I agree with charlotte, he's hanging on because he probably genuinely does like having you around and enjoys your company. The problem is that he doesn't really value it - if he valued you and cared about you, then how you felt would be relevant to him, but it seems like he doesn't. I wouldn't be surprised if he moved on very quickly sad

I don't think it's that he isn't bothered whether you want to be with him BTW, I just think it's as simple as that he hasn't considered that you might have an opinion. To him it is as simple as "we should get back together, because we were happy and now I (we) are sad." He doesn't see that to have ended the relationship, you must have been pretty unhappy. And because he was happy before he thinks that you can all just go back to the way things were and carry on but of course it is more complex than that by a long shot.

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Fri 17-May-13 21:34:06

At least you know that you're going to miss him. So while you're feeling strong, are there any plans you can make? Ways to avoid his calls, emails, texts, fb for example? Then when you're feeling weaker, you can say to yourself, "I made this plan (not to open any emails from him or whatever it might be) so I'm going to stick to it even though I can't remember now why I did it."

Mouseyinmyhousey Fri 17-May-13 21:43:53

He may move on quickly, although we have in the past finished for as much as 3 months and he hasn't moved on, well neither of us did, he didn't even tell his family we'd split up. But he wanted to get back together. I've completely point blank ignored every form of contact for over two weeks and he's still persisted.

Charlotte, not on FB so that's not a problem, what I did last time we broke up was I'd leave my phone switched off upstairs so I wasn't tempted to answer/text back. He threatened suicide to get me talking, and then promised he'd changed and realised what he'd lost. He's also likely at some point to pop over.

I know if I'm to mean and stick to this this time I have to be a lot firmer with myself too. This is the most frustrating thing and why this is so soul destroying for me, he does not and will not commit but he also will not just let things go.

thanks for you, Mousey, well done. You sound much clearer now. Get yourself too busy doing fun things to miss him, don't think it's going to be as hard as you imagine. I hope you'll feel free smile

flippinada Fri 17-May-13 21:48:32

Threatening suicide, over a break up? Goodness me, what a an absolute numpty.

The correct realise, if he does it again it's to say "oh well, that's a shame. Make sure you don't leave a mess behind, won't you?"

<black humour>

flippinada Fri 17-May-13 21:49:15

He's very manipulative indeed, isn't he?

flippinada Fri 17-May-13 21:50:05

Ahh not again! Response not realiseconfused .

JamieandtheMagicTorch Fri 17-May-13 21:51:40

The suicide threats doesn't surprise me at all. You alluded to feeling a bit sorry for him, earlier

Diagonally Fri 17-May-13 21:56:45

The most difficult thing at the stage you are at, is that you want to keep applying the model of what a normal, decent, respectful person would or wouldn't do to him, and seeing the bits that fit and thinking they make sense (so he must be ok really) and being unable to make sense of the bits that don't fit (so perhaps he isn't ok after all). Has you going round in demented circles.

The thing is, its the bits that don't fit that matter.

Anyone, anyone, even the most dangerous of pyschopaths, can do nice. If it suits them. If they are bored. If it's a means to an end.

But a respectful, decent, NORMAL person does not make up "rules" for when his "partner" can or cannot ring him.

Never.

Either he is a controlling arse or he's been seeing other women. Possibly both.

No contact is the only option with someone like this.

Mouseyinmyhousey Fri 17-May-13 22:07:39

Diagonally thanks for your post. you've reminded me of something I often forget, that I try to put things into neat boxes, try to understand people, and that can't always be done.

The feeling sorry for him is a funny one, there is an element ot that, but I'm not sure if it's just normal because I care so much about him, but he has a vulnerability about him. He's very shy, awkward, not very confident about some things, and it almost makes me want to care for him even more, I don't like to think of him unhappy, so in the past I've felt sorry when he's said he's sad and lonely.

uncongenial Fri 17-May-13 22:14:05

Well done for staying strong Mousey. Don't fall for the pity act, an ex of mine would try this, and suicide threats, when all else had failed.

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Fri 17-May-13 22:16:15

The thing about making you feel sorry for him, as with the suicide threats, is that it's still all about him.

uncongenial Fri 17-May-13 22:19:30

And that's definitely emotional abuse and blackmail. And not on.

BerylStreep Fri 17-May-13 22:43:57

Yep, I had one who threatened suicide. <lots of unsuitable previous bfs blush> That's after he kept me hooked in with the line 'you are the best thing that has happened since my Mum died.' hmm

Diagonally Fri 17-May-13 22:51:22

Pity plays and threatening suicide are enormous red flags.

Everyone here who has experienced this can understand how you have got sucked in and how hard it is to get out. It's like being stuck in a whirlpool.

I think you feel angry at yourself and not him, but the key to breaking out is re-directing your anger and giving yourself permission to feel it towards him.

No doubt you entered this relationship in good faith and he's effed with your head and heart for no good reason.

It's OK to be furious about that.

YoniBottsBumgina Sat 18-May-13 00:32:51

Yep, he sounds like the type to hound you until you give in, as a first resort - because you're easy and comfortable and, again, he knows that you "work" together (from his perspective at least) and it's the path of least effort for him (that's what I mean by easy btw, not anything else). Once he realises that he's not going to win you over this time, he will probably try to replace you with someone else, and he won't waste much time looking.

That is massively simplified, of course, and is probably largely unconscious on his behalf.

Mouseyinmyhousey Sat 18-May-13 07:53:11

Think that's my worst fear youbotts, that he will just replace me with someone else, and probably do all the things he wouldn't do with me

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sat 18-May-13 08:08:16

And when he does, mousey, you will have moved on further and realise what a massively lucky escape you had. smile

Pity the next girl, don't worry about envy. Even if he does all the things he wouldn't do with you he'll still be crap at them because he is fundamentally a selfish bastard who couldn't give anything to anyone unconditionally ever.

Fluffycloudland77 Sat 18-May-13 08:18:57

One of our relatives went through this, it wasn't a lack of commitment but a lack of keeping his trousers on. 20 years it went on for with all of us seeing that he wasn't going to change.

When it did end for good he was still expecting to be able to come back 2 years later.

He is with someone new but also cheats on her too.

Officershitty Sat 18-May-13 08:22:24

If he did replace you with someone else, even if he married them, he sounds like he would just continue to blow hot and cold with them, even if they were a doormat. Count yourself lucky that you have escaped from that uncertainty. Now stop concentrating on what he does/did/might do/will do (I know it's hard) and concentrate on yourself. Go out and do something nice for yourself.
Stay strong. There are plenty of nice blokes out there and you will meet one when you are happy.

Mouseyinmyhousey Sat 18-May-13 08:29:38

I think I'd be too scared to meet someone else after all this. Not only because I don't want to be that woman who has a string of blokes coming and going in dcs life,.but because I'm seemingly a terrible judge of character.

BIWI Sat 18-May-13 08:30:30

... by which time, Mousey, you will have found somebody that deserves you and who will do all those lovely things with you and your DC

He is not worthy of you

You need to keep repeating that to yourself smile

Officershitty Sat 18-May-13 08:41:34

You might benefit from doing some self-analysis about why you chose to stay so long with someone who treated you that way. I speak from experience, ten years or so later. I benefitted from counselling to find out why I related to men the way I did.
You don't have to go out with a string of blokes. Just be a bit cautious and put yourself first (and your dc) for the foreseeable future and get your life back on track.

Mouseyinmyhousey Sat 18-May-13 08:42:37

This is really bad BIWI, but I think when I met him my self esteem might have been really low.

I wasn't eating properly because I thought I was fat despite the fact that I'd never been overweight. I was living on two cans of coke at one point and had lost a ridiculous amount of weight. I'd come out of a horrible controlling relationship. Ex wasn't my usual good looking jack the lad loud type. I was so glad to have met someone who wasn't loud and shouty, who seemed to really like me and made all the right noises, I probably missed a lot of red flags early on.

BIWI Sat 18-May-13 08:44:44

sad

I agree with Officershitty's post. You need to 'rebuild' yourself after this relationship, not only to try and work out why you have let this man (and your previous one) treat you so badly.

But more importantly, you and DC need to enjoy being free from this, and just enjoy the relationship that you have with each other. You need (and deserve) to be happy!

Mouseyinmyhousey Sat 18-May-13 08:51:06

I mean very early on, he wouldn't see me on a weekend because he'd go out with mates. Fine, but after a bit I said this is just ridiculous, I can't date you if we cannot even spend one weekend night together. He then fell out with all his mates sharpish, which wasn't what I wanted at all. But he told me if he didn't stick to all their night's out they wouldn't speak to him.

The one friend he has continued to speak to I've only been allowed to meet once in four years, as they don't introduce girlfriends.

All pathetic.

thistlelicker Sat 18-May-13 08:51:57

It's simple! He doesn't want to move in! Or be with u by the sounds of things! He doesn't care! Find yourself, think of the kids and dump the fucker!!! Your damaging
Yourself and the kids by allowing him to manipulate and dictate !!! It sounds like ur happy to be pushed around by him sad really

Mouseyinmyhousey Sat 18-May-13 08:56:46

I know, I know what I have to do.

It's going to be strange for a while though as I'm so used to being in a relationship, albeit a crap one.

YoniBottsBumgina Sat 18-May-13 08:58:53

There's a baggage reclaim article called something like "When you're afraid they will move on and be a better person in a better relationship without you" - it's very good and I found it helpful. It's difficult for me to link on my phone, perhaps someone could google for me?

Definitely if you meet someone when your self esteem is low it is very difficult for you to see that they aren't actually that good for you. Also perhaps sometimes there is an element if almost choosing someone who's rubbish - sort of "I'm a screw up, you're a screw up, let's be a screw up couple in a screwed up ttlariobship together." But that doesn't make it your fault. If anything, if he was all sorted when you got together and you weren't in a good place, he is the one at fault since he should have recognised that you weren't in a good place for a relationship!

Or the other explanation is that he's a kitten-rescuer, he saw you struggling like a kitten stuck in a tree and he thought he'd be kind and help you down. But then he has been expecting you to stay a little helpless adoring kitten for ever and when he sees your true nature (the wild, free tiger you were always going to grow up to be) he doesnt like it and tries to squash you back down into that kitten role again because it makes him feel important and safe. (sorry, I like metaphors!)

Officershitty Sat 18-May-13 09:00:54

Please stop analysing what he did/said etc. I wish you all the best but from all your posts you sound a bit like me 10-15 years ago (eating issues/ abusive relationship etc) . Please get some help in order to get away from this man and to learn how to protect yourself from choosing unsuitable men.
This may involve looking at yourself a lot and finding ways to increase your self esteem, from looking at what your childhood, teenage years were like, why do you have low esteem etc, if that is the case. Why do you let guys treat you in a certain way. All this may or may not apply to you but I hope I've been helpful to you here.

Mouseyinmyhousey Sat 18-May-13 09:01:17

I just have on dc thistlelicker. And I'm not happy to be pushed around, but if you read all my posts he has made a lot of promises, which I believed, wanted to believe.

And I know the relationship is damaging to dc and myself which is why I'm doing something about it. However it isn't an easy thing to do, for me anyway when I'm not only up against missing someone, who despite everything we have had many good times, and also him making promises.

thistlelicker Sat 18-May-13 09:06:05

I have read all your posts! You have allowed this man to so these things
To u and ur child! You took him back! Admitting u didn't /
Couldn't move on! He doesn't offer u a future! He's happy to have cake and crumbs! A meal when it suits him! U get nothing u want from him- commitment! He isn't commuted to u! Not after 4 years!

Mouseyinmyhousey Sat 18-May-13 09:10:13

Well I'm clearly a complete idiot

thistlelicker Sat 18-May-13 09:11:52

Continue to stand up for yourself! Stick your ground. U found the courage! See it through! You will get there :-)

Officershitty Sat 18-May-13 09:18:59

You are NOT a complete idiot, or an idiot, or anything else. You are caught up in a painful situation and making an effort to get yourself out of it. All the best. You will get there. smile

YoniBottsBumgina Sat 18-May-13 09:21:39

You're not an idiot. You are a lovely person who gave him the benefit of the doubt , and why wouldn't you. Maybe it's just hard to understand for some people who see everything as black and white, it's not, of course.

BIWI Sat 18-May-13 09:22:20

No text speak! Please!

Mouse - you are not an idiot at all. You have been treated very badly and your self esteem has suffered as a consequence.

And you have demonstrated courage and insight already on this thread. It's hard to move on, and you can see that. You are also beginning to realise how horrible your partner is. This is about him being an idiot, (as well as a horrible person), not you.

Jux Sat 18-May-13 09:55:04

Mouse, no way are you an idiot. Please don't let that thoughtmtake any space in your head. It is quite clearly untrue. We can tell that just from your posts in this thread.

Can you get another sim for your phone. Chuck the one you have now and don't give him the number of the new one. That is a definitive way of a) protecting yourself and your son from your ex's cajoling and b) telling the ex that you mean what you say, without having to speak to him any longer.

You can also block emails.

You need to build a firewall around yourself at the moment.

If he turns up in rl just tell him that if he doesn't go away you'll call the cops.

BerylStreep Sat 18-May-13 10:34:40

Mousey, what plans have you got for today?

Mouseyinmyhousey Sat 18-May-13 10:44:44

Thanks all, I do feel a right idiot when I think back over it all. I'm really grateful for all the supportive posts, I just wish people could see that it's not always as simple as he's crap, get rid. Of course it is that simple, but if it was then surely noone would ever stay in crap/abusive relationships would they? Sometimes your heart rules your head and all that.

Talking it through s so helpful, but I know I'm the only one who can take the stand.

In the past when I've tried to end it I've tried everything, I've changed my phone number, but he's come round, rang house phone and I've caved. I don't particuarly want to change my number again so I've done things like left my sim at my mums for a few days and stuck a payg in, sounds crazy I know, but it's just so that I could get some headspace and not have to or be tempted to read his daft texts and calls. Emails not really a problem as I just blocked them, infact I don't think I unblocked him when we got back together. I've completely ignored him for over two weeks before, I've left my phone switched off in a drawer or upstairs, that was when he started saying he was going to hang himself from a tree and I felt awful.

Then what I end up thinking is, if he didn't love me, if he wasn't commited, he would just give in and go meet someone else. See the pattern? And that's why I over analyse, and as someone said try to relate this to a normal situation, because I think, why would he do that?

He's even got my mum and sister baffled who I've spoke to about it all. They don't particuarly like him, but can't understand it all, because they've seen the way he is with me, the nice things he does. My mum once said if he was only after sex on tap it would have been cheaper for him to hire a prostitute.

My resolve probably lies in stopping trying to analyse it all myself.

Unfortunately I'm getting busy cleaning the bathroom and kitchen today, would much rather be doing somthing nice. But if I get it all out the way at least I can tomorrow.

Fluffycloudland77 Sat 18-May-13 10:57:27

If he comes round, phone the police.

It is a criminal offence to harass people in this country. Unwanted text messages are also harassment and he can be either arrested or given "words of advice" by the police.

You'll never get a decent man while he's hanging around, he's living his life like the soaps he watches as my dh would say.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sat 18-May-13 10:59:44

If you are an idiot then so was I and a whole bunch of others because we've all made the same mistake.

And we do all see its not as simple as him being crap to you, because we really have been there too..

I hang my head in shame when I think back but I did work out how to be a better judge of character in the end smile

For what it's worth, I think he does want to stay with you but I think that's because you have always allowed him the freedom to come and go as he pleased. Why would he want to change what has been a perfect relationship for him?? He's had his cake and he 's eaten it too, with you

wordyBird Sat 18-May-13 11:06:11

He's committed to getting his own way, is all sad

He doesn't understand love as you do. So his attachment to you doesn't carry the same meaning for him, as it does for you, or your mum. It's not just sex on tap with a raw cost/ benefit analysis either - it's more complex than that, but not a normal or healthy relationship by any stretch of the imagination.

In time he will meet someone else and treat them equally badly, because men like him are not capable of changing. Maybe that is a small consolation, I don't know brew

Mouseyinmyhousey Sat 18-May-13 11:08:53

Well if anyone wants to share their crap relationship tales... might makes me feels a bit better and see the light at the end of the tunnel.

You're right shipwrecked, he has hasn't he? Got to play at being the good boyfriend and the family man, he's had all the nice bits but still gets to keep his single bloke life when he chooses, which is what he chooses. And I've always been here with open arms to take him back.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sat 18-May-13 11:09:12

I do like the advice about being on your own for a bit. You deserve to spend time finding out bit about yourself and who you are. smile

ladyjadie Sat 18-May-13 11:11:54

Read this I think that's the link Yoni meant?

"*Relationships require a leap of faith and quite frankly, when a guy doesn’t see a future with you, or isn’t prepared to try, he’s not willing to take a leap of faith and put in the effort, the emotion, and the commitment.

However…plenty of men will coast, put in just enough effort (or may even get away with throwing in crumbs) and still enjoy the fringe benefits of a relationship with someone who believes that they’re going somewhere.*"

Please don't get too caught up in worrying about the ifs regarding him finding someone else. I did that for aages with my ex, even though I was miserable a lot of the time with him, and it kept me stuck in the relationship, and then stuck with moving on from him, to my detriment. Instead focus on you and your future (and your dc's) and think of how happy you'll be in a year/however long in the future when you don't have to fret about the why's (why is he constantly making excuses for not moving in with me?) and the what ifs (what if he ruins this holiday? What if he moves in and then buggers off without so much as a courtesy text?)

FWIW I think you're really smart, and strong, for being able to make the right decision.

Mouseyinmyhousey Sat 18-May-13 11:13:45

I of course don't wish it on anyone wordy. But I would not like to think it's me that's the problem.

I've sort of got to the point though where I know it's not me.

Mouseyinmyhousey Sat 18-May-13 11:24:51

While that baggage reclaim article is extremely true, it is, at this point in time, rather depressing.

It the Natalie Lue book any good?

Patosshades Sat 18-May-13 11:25:00

Well done you for seeing the light. A strategy for the next time he tells you he's going to commit suicide is to inform the police/authorities and let them deal with him. He won't try that manipulative bullshit with you again after that.

He's saying all this crap he thinks you want to hear just because he can, it's fun for him to have you at his beck and call.

It's not you, he's a grade A Arse!

schobe Sat 18-May-13 11:25:06

Oh god mousey, a good friend of mine had one of these men.

Yy to the grand gestures to show her and the world what a great guy he was. But then yy to the shitty day to day treatment.

I'd have a partner who was nice in all the small ways any day than one who bought me presents or drove me across the country from time to time.

My friend's partner would do a lot of the driving, odd job type favours. but it was because he LIVED for cars and DYI. God he was so dull.

The only way she could get away was to do something so awful that there was no going back - she found OM. Even then, the partner didn't half have a good go at getting her back - suicide threats etc.

He was pretty abusive and controlling to her, and one of the problems towards the end was that he'd suddenly decided he no longer wanted children. Guess what was the first thing he did when he finally realised she was not coming back? Yes, he found a new GF and got her pregnant asap. He knew some of her family members were still on his FB account and must've enjoyed posting that scan picture up. Totally worth creating a new life for that lovely feeling of control back again for 5 seconds.

So yes, your dickhead might move on to someone else and very publicly do all the things he wouldn't do for you. But it's all for show and only deserving of your pity.

Mouseyinmyhousey Sat 18-May-13 11:37:17

Gosh, I have got to have a plan of action. I cannot for a single day more live in the hope (and I still am) that he might wake up one day and feel differently, that me leaving might shock him into changing.

He's shown me he's no good for me, and I've only listened to the bits I wanted to hear.

I mean just regarding his family, they are desperate to get to know me more, and he has let me a little, when there's been a family meal and he's needed me there. But despite his mum practically begging to let her look after dc so boyfriend and I could go out, he's never taken her up on the offer, despite her constantly hint, hinting that were all welcome round any time for dinner, he's avoided it.

What's going to end up happening is I'll either be so destroyed I'll end up having some kind of breakdown, or he'll leave me for someone else, or dc will be so damaged dc will go on to have terrible adult relationships. I'm getting tearful typing this, because I know how awful all this is.

But I need a plan of action and it's got to be something more than I've done before.

His stuff, I've asked him what he wants me to do with it, leave it outside. He just kept saying were not splitting up. So bin it?

I need to start to enjoy my life with dc, it's hard because I'm used to doing so much as the 3 of us. I haven't got loads of money to do anything big, so small things to keep myself cheerful?

Ways to stop waiting and wondering when he's going to make contact?

yes absolutely. if he pulls the suicide stunt call 101. 999 is probably an over-reaction given he has no intention of following through.

the grand gestures are a down payment for the crap he's dished out / is going to dish out.

he knows he's acted atrociously and they are to assuage his conscience as well as buy goodwill for more crap.

because he makes a grand gesture, doesn't mean he's a changed man and he's going to do things right from now on. it gives him a license to continue as he has been doing.

'yes i'm being an arsehole right now, but i did give you that bouquet of flowers and swear on my knees that you're the best thing for me. so that makes it all alright.'

a good, kind person doesn't need to do these grand gestures because they have nothing to atone for.

it's all for show and indebtedness.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sat 18-May-13 11:42:49

Certainly, I would leave a message that his stuff will be outside for collection on such and such a date...and that if he fails to collect you will assume he doesn't want it and dump it. He thinks he has power whilst the stuff is still there.

Little things to keep cheerful is good. I found my ex had been slowly cutting friends out of my life. so I took a lot of pleasure in meeting up with them (nothing expensive) and marking it on my calendar to show how full and fabulous my life had become!

x-post

'he'll leave me for someone else'

YOU have left HIM.

bin up his crap and drop it off at his place or his mum's place, even better. get your family to help you with this if you need.

then take stock. spend time with your ds this weekend. go out to parks, see a movie. then think about what you would like to do with your spare time. hang out with your friends and family.

you're not ready for another relationship. not for a good while. and this one is over so you need to adjust to being single for a while.

ladyjadie Sat 18-May-13 11:43:46

Sorry if it depressed you Mousey. That wasn't my intention, it was more the stuff about 'coasting' that I thought could give you clarity on why he was acting, and more strength to firm your belief that separating yourself from him for good is the best thing for you. sad

Mouseyinmyhousey Sat 18-May-13 11:49:47

Don't be sorry ladyjadie it's only depressing because reading and nodding along to those articles makes me have to face reality, when somewhere along the way I'm probably still kidding myself.

I've read Natalie Lue's stuff before, and she's spot on, but tells some harsh truths that people don't always want to hear.

YoniBottsBumgina Sat 18-May-13 12:30:41

www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/what-keeps-you-up-a-night-pondering-whether-theyre-a-better-person-in-a-better-relationship-without-you/

That's the one I meant. Only read it if you feel up to it though OP. You have to do this at your own pace.

Thats

YoniBottsBumgina Sat 18-May-13 12:33:54

Plan is a great idea smile I won't be around much today but probably later this evening if you want a hand.

ladyjadie Sat 18-May-13 12:51:58

Whoops sorry Yoni. I know what you mean Mousey, I wish I'd had her stuff to read when I was miserable over ex, but honestly woould have been too raw (a couple of bits still hurt to read even now)

Hugs (because everything I wrote then deleted was rubbishly clichéd)

Diagonally Sat 18-May-13 12:55:43

Ok plan..

How old is DC? Are they at school?

Do you work?

Does DC spend any time with their DF?

Mouseyinmyhousey Sat 18-May-13 12:57:38

DC is 5 and at school, I do work yes and no ex is not around at all.

Mouseyinmyhousey Sat 18-May-13 12:59:54

I just need to do something different to what I usually do, especially to focus on myself and keep no contact. As whatever I have tried before obviously hasn't worked for me.

springymater Sat 18-May-13 13:11:12

I really feel for you. The pain of this comes through the page.

He doesnt think its over because youve done this before but youve gone back. he thinks all he has to do is bide his time - he doesnt even take this seriously any more, the breaking up.

He is emotionally abusing you. It is likely you accept this shit because it was modelled by your dad (sounds simplistic but usually the case). Then your sister had/accepted the same shit and, lo and behold, her bloke came round: the fairytale. Well, I can't know what's happening with them but it looks like you've been basing your shit relationshp on that: some day your prince will come and will love you and be true to you. etc.

This happens, mind. People have good, solid, loving relationships. So its not unrealistic to want it. Just that you're not going to have it with him. That couldn't be more clear.

I relate to you saying it's an addiction - abusive relationships are often addictive. Have you had any therapy? I'd recommend a good dose - a few years, if poss. Get all the shit out and get it re-ordered. You could also try the Freedom Programme Don't be fooled that your relationshp is less abusive than physical abuse - emotional and mental abuse is just as, if not more, painful and damaging.

I really feel for you. You sound absolutely lovely. The right man - not him! - would be so lucky to have you.

springymater Sat 18-May-13 13:16:16

The way he keeps you hooked in is by promising what you long for (and it's completely normal to want it). So cruel of him tbh.

BIWI Sat 18-May-13 13:23:57

The thing is, though, Mousey - sorry to say this - this isn't about love. He doesn't really love you. It's about control. He loves to control you.

And now, you are realising that you need to take control. But you have to do this all the time. Don't ask him anything any more - TELL him

So don't ask what to do with his stuff, tell him what you re going to do with it.

He is realising that his grip on you is slipping, and so he will work/fight hared to re-exert that. Which is what you have to both recognise and resist.

You are the one in charge now, not him!

BIWI Sat 18-May-13 13:24:25

apols about typos!

BerylStreep Sat 18-May-13 13:33:30

Where to start on the sharing of crap relationships?

Well, there was J - I mentioned him upthread. He was in the army. I wasn't even that keen on him, but he totally manipulated the situation to go out with me - left tonnes of messages with my friend, seemed super keen, it sort of seemed a bit rude not to go out with him. Then the declarations that I was the best thing that had happened to him since his mum died (puhlease - cue more emotional blackmail). One day, he collected me from work (in my car that he somehow had managed to end up borrowing every day when I was at work). We had a routine of always going to the regiment bar on a Friday afternoon, and as we walked in that day, everyone shouted 'congratulations!'. He then proposed to me in front of everyone - and had told them all about it beforehand. Again, totally manipulative. I could hardly say no, could I? So there I was, feeling forced into marrying someone that I didn't want to. 2 weeks later, I came home from work one day, to find he had moved all of his stuff into my house, without even asking. He gave some explanation that permission to visit my house had been withdrawn, and he could only visit if it was down as his place of residence. WTAF. I told him he couldn't stay, and that I thought things were moving too fast. He didn't really care.

One evening I stopped with some colleagues on the way home from work for a drink. When I arrived home, there were numerous messages on the answer phone from him, demanding to know where I was (in the days before mobile phones). He was drunk and argumentative. I refused to discuss, and he then phoned constantly for hours and hours, which I didn't answer. He then turned up at the house (having driven there drunk) and started hammering on the door demanding to be let in. I was terrified, and was sat in the house in darkness hoping he would think I wasn't in. It lasted about 2 hours. He then climbed up to a first story roof and started to try to break in through the window I dialled 999 and police came and took him away. As he was being led away, I told him it was over and I never wanted to see him ever again.

He called and called, and threatened he was going to kill himself. He inundated my family with tearful begging calls, asking them to help me to see sense. He bombarded me with letters and cards, telling me I was making the biggest mistake of my life, and we were meant to be together.

I ended up moving house to get away from him, although I kept my old house and rented it out. The letters (to the old address) continued for years. I think the last one came about 5 years ago. It was almost 20 years ago that we went out. I still feel dread in the pit of my stomach when I see his loopy writing with the circles on top of the 'i's.

Mousey I suppose in a way, J was almost the polar opposite of your boyfriend, in that he was pushing for commitment, regardless of what I wanted, but there are similarities - basically, my feelings as an individual were completely irrelevant, it was all about what he wanted, on his timescale. The threats of suicide are particularly chilling, and I would urge you not to allow yourself to be manipulated by them. I earned quite a lot more than him, and J was the ultimate cocklodger. When I split up from him, friends and colleagues said that they thought I was mad for ever going out with him in the first place (he was quite rough around the edges). I felt like a complete mug and was so embarrassed that my character judgement was so completely out of whack.

But you live and learn. I wouldn't put up with that sort of shit these days. Looking back on it now, there were tonnes of red flags, but I was in my mid-twenties, and had never even heard the phrase 'red flag', let alone be able to spot them.

You have told him it is over - don't let him brow-beat you into caving in. Honestly, you (and your DC) deserve better, and it is worth waiting for.

Mouseyinmyhousey Sat 18-May-13 13:34:31

Thanks for understanding springymater.

BIWI I think the thing is, it's only recently, probably the last 3-4 months, that I'm slowly beginning to realise about the control element. I've always been told that I'm the controlling one, simply for placing, or trying to place a few basic expectations on him! But I'm slowly starting to see the EA element to all this, and the control and power games.

But I am seeing it now.

MushroomSoup Sat 18-May-13 13:52:39

Beryl, that's terrifying!

Mouseyinmyhousey Sat 18-May-13 13:53:45

Bloody hell berylstreep that's crazy, thank you for sharing. Even though I've been pushing for commitment I haven't done anything like that! My ex (dc dad) was very much like that. My recent ex was the complete opposite, which I thought was a safe bet.

However with the both of them there is that undertone of completely not respecting my wishes, thoughts and feelings.

BerylStreep Sat 18-May-13 14:10:16

Mousey, that's what I mean - your wishes and feelings are not being respected at all. You are just a bit player in his drama. There is no element of mutual respect from him.

(Didn't mean to imply that you were like my nutter ex in pushing for commitment - not at all. smile)

Mouseyinmyhousey Sat 18-May-13 14:15:27

I know, but I HAD to clarify that, I promise that I absolutely won't be writing to him in a years time let alone 10 wink

In all seriousness though that story is very, very scary.

I just want to add my wells one's to you. you've started the end now, so it would be a major step back to have him back and you'd just have to go through this another time when you do finally get rid. you will, you know, so there is no point wasting another 6 months or whatever of you & dC's lives playing this out. accept it will be a hard few weeks but know it will then get a lot better. maybe quicker than that.

will return

sorry, small child climbing on me.

it never ceases to amaze me when I read these stories on mumsnet and then see how quickly people get on with their lives after leaving or being left by really rubbish partners. there is a lot of inspiration there for you.

I've got a bit of a story I'll share. boyfriend of 4 years, never really nasty but def not comittted. lots of talk about how he would marry me definitely but not yet.. we lived together although that was because I forced him to after we came back from an extended trip overseas and the location suited him better than his parents house. however , like your one, he spent a lot of time disappearing off for days or weeks, mostly to his parents. wouldn't answer the phone, took annual leave without saying, and most embarrassingly often stood me up at parties, weddings, family meals. I made excuses for him - depressed, shy etc but it didn't matter if he was or not - he had no respect for me and he showed me

that a million times. he also had weird obsessions with food and exercise, often we went out then he "forgot" his money etc. a lot of it was not that bad in itself but together was a whole catalogue of crap.

when I look back now I don't care what his problem was or if he behaved unreasonably, I just know he wasn't right for me and I am a million times better off out of it, with dh, dd, friends a social life and no financial surprises.

I just told him one day we are having a trial separation - he stayed with his parents as I had nowhere else to stay and all furniture was mine. I never let him back in, refund him his share of the deposit (he was lured by the money) and put his stuff out at an agreed time and day. he didn't come so I rang his mum and told her he was expected and it looked like rain. he showed up. he basically left me alone after that luckily.

it is hard so hard to get out of it but once the relief kicks in you know you won't go back.

now line up some different and cheap things to do with your weekend and get busy! it is hard if he was part of your family life but you will get there.

remember whether he is a bad guy or not (he is BTW), it doesn't matter as he is not right for you in any case.

SugarPasteGreyhound Sat 18-May-13 18:08:58

mousey well done I won't shout at you! will post more later as on phone at mo

Jux Sat 18-May-13 20:33:44

Mousey, you are doing so well. Seeing the power games is a big step.

What is different this time is that you can see much more clearly what he is doing - don't try to understand it, it's so abnormal that you won't be able to - and the other difference is you are talking about it here.

Have you read some of the threads on this Relationships board? You know that if you take him back that will be you in X years' time.

Use the people around you in rl to keep yourself on the right path, remember how you want your son to be when he's grown up, see if you can get on the Freedom Programme or see a counsellor, and KEEP POSTING.

We will be here holding your hand. Encouraging you.

thanks

jannaofthejungle Sat 18-May-13 21:21:46

Mouse,I have been following your thread and wondering whether to post. I mainly lurk these days and have nc'd,but I had a lot of help and support here a few years ago when I left my narc xp while pg with dd.

I met " M " when dd was 4 mo. xp has never had any contact. I have older dc and we were all glad to meet a quiet,gentle ,kind man who,after a few months, enjoyed spending quiet weekends with us.Walking,cooking,watching tv. I thought he was so sensitive and supportive as he took things slowly,and at my pace while I bf dd,and eventually went back to work ft.He listened to stories of the awful things I had been through with xp,and was like a breath of fresh air,making us laugh,going camping and on picnics.

He lived 30 miles from us. As time moved on,I got stronger. I expected things to progress. After a year,he was still only visiting at weekends,and by now,often cancelling at the last minute due to tiredness,a busy week etc. I had still not met any of his friends or family. But he "doted " on dd,and when I got upset about being let down ,he would say how he was afraid at how quickly his feelings had developed,how he was deeply in love with me and wanted a future with us,but was overwhelmed by all that had happened in my life,how it was "a lot to take on".

I was wary of getting close after xp. I felt proud of maintaining my independence .I assumed we would grow closer and more sure of one another in time.

From there,reading your thread has been like reading the story of my own experience.
Only,I moved to his town. I had the chance of a job and took the chance of a new start,away from the memories of xp. M never said don't. But,looking back,he never said do,either. What he did,was to blame all our "difficulties" - in fact,anything I expressed - on the distance between us,how it was impossible to develop further when we could only meet at weekends.

As soon as we moved,it got worse. He was five minutes away,but "needed his space",so I couldn't ring him ,let alone drop in,unless it he'd invited me. We actually saw less of him than we had before,but he ramped up the promises and declarations of love and a future.

Back then - 2 years ago now - I thought I was with my life partner. Like you,I thought I was putting unreasonable pressure on him,asking a lot. I was grateful for what I did get. He was comforting and easy to be with - when he chose. But he chose on his own terms. I started to get angry ,and then he would disappear for a week or so,or let me down at some important occasion like a holiday or a birthday. Then ,after a long gap,he'd appear again as if nothing had happened,all cheerful,with a meal or a trip planned. I'd be so glad of the break in routine,the attention,that I'd happily pick it all up again,and tell myself it was understandable that he would take a while to get his head around my complicate past and big family.

I ended it last autumn ,meant it,posted on here. We were apart from Sept ember until Christmas. Then ,I felt sad at the thought of him alone in his house. Dd asked for him all the time. I remembered previous Christmases . I invited him for dinner. He immediately behaved as if nothing had ever happened. And he still wouldn't talk about it. If I expressed anything at all,he would say how we "had such a good thing" and how he'd "never been so happy". I tried to tell him that we weren't back together,it was just dinner. But he kept turning up and I fell back into the old routine,feeling really uncomfortable,but as if it was my own fault!

I blocked him in mid Feb. I have been NC since then. It has been,and still is,lonely and strange. He did as much of a number on me as xp. But somehow,the violence and overt EA were easier to distance myself and recover from.With M,I thought I had at last found a "normal" man. A kind,gentle partner. But he was utterly unavailable.And just as controlling as xp.

Dd misses him. I miss the fantasy of a caring partner. He still texts and emails as if we are still exactly as we were. I never answer,and find reading them strengthens my resolve . It is completely bonkers and disrespectful of him to behave like that,and proves that he never was who I thought in the first place.

I am in my late 40's and have grown up dc as well as a 4 yo. I am unlikely to find anyone else now. I don't think I could be bothered tbh.

You are doing the right thing here. These men are very hard to unstick from. There is fantastic advice on here,keep posting. I wish you all the best xxx

Mouseyinmyhousey Sat 18-May-13 21:50:31

janna thank you ever so much for sharing that. I'm sorry and angry that he acted like that. But it's comforting to know that people can relate to my situation, as it feels somehow unique. And you're totally right, it's harder to deal with than obvious/physical abuse, because you know for sure that's wrong, but this sort of behaviour leaves all sorts of unanswered questions. And good for you for putting a stop to it, I hope I can be as firm.

Jux these weekend evenings are hard, and this is only the first one. We'd usually be cuddled up on the sofa now laughing at Eurovision or something, feel a bit lost. I don't mind at the minute because it's nice to have a few nights to myself, but I know it will get harder before it gets easier.

I've downloaded 'Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl' on my kindle, I just can't quite believe how predictable his behaviour has been, despite the fact that I always thought he was unpredictable.

Got a bit teary earlier, my aunt passed away recently unexpectedly, I hadn't seen her for a few years, no real reason other than not making the effort, thinking she'd always be there. I adored her when I was growing up, and we had lots of shared interests, I was on a local history site which she used and she'd posted on a lot of the threads. Made me a bit choked up and I wished she was here now as I'm sure she'd have some good wise advice for me.

The positives for me here is that I think I have finally accepted that there is never going to be that future for me and him, and that even worse than that, I cannot continue to tolerate his lies and games.

Mouseyinmyhousey Sat 18-May-13 22:00:52

It was bordering on funny when we had our conversation last night.

He told me he'd had the week off to sort his garden out (fair enough), he keeps saying he needs to sort the garden so that he can move in with me (hmm). Then he told me he'd started to gravel a drive in the back garden, now that won't mean a lot, but at the house he has an external garage and drive, the garage houses the sports car, the drive his van and he sticks his car in the garden, currently on rubble. So the fact that he's gravelling another drive in the garden tells me he's only getting more comfy, not doing the garden to leave!

I forgot to mention in my earlier posts, the time when we got back together and he co purchased my car with me, he also insisted, despite me saying there was absolutely no need, on bringing his almost brand new, very expensive sofas over to my place, to prove that he was in the process of moving in, leaving himself with just a table and futon, I told him there was no need at all but he insisted and said they were better at mine anyway as he's there more, and will be living here soon anyway, so he did. Bizarre? He isn't rich either.

thistlelicker Sun 19-May-13 03:03:14

Mousey! What is your belly feeling telling
U!!! Normally
Belly feelings are
Never wrong

Mouseyinmyhousey Sun 19-May-13 07:55:59

It's not saying a lot

Mouseyinmyhousey Sun 19-May-13 08:42:17

Anyone want to talk, feeling really glum this morning, think it's sinking in.

MadBusLady Sun 19-May-13 09:28:01

<waves>

What is it you're feeling the lack of? Him? The idea of being in a relationship? Couply weekend activities?

TheSilveryPussycat Sun 19-May-13 09:35:49

mousey have a look at the EA thread if you want. We are all unravelling Fuckwit spaghetti-head on there. And you are experiencing the well-known 'roller-coaster of emotions', by the sound of it, to which the usual advice is, just ride it out...

Mouseyinmyhousey Sun 19-May-13 09:55:11

Hi madbuslady love your name btw. Sorry if I'm droning, this is the difficult part though.

I'm just missing the usual routine and the affection the 'us', so usually today we'd take it in turns to make the other one a coffee in bed, while the other sorts dc breakfast and takes dc swimming and goes to the shops to get lunch. We'd usually wind each other up about who's turn it was and joke say 'your coffee was too strong yesterday so your turn didn't count'. You get the picture. Erm, then a day like today we'd likely be in the garden or go to a park or something.

All of these things I can easily do by myself with dc, but you know, I miss another adult, the banter.

We were also very affectionatte, so I miss the physical contact, hugs, kisses, joking around chasing eachother about, having another adult to laugh with, all of which I wouldn't miss only for the fact that I know he's not coming back, so it's the thoughts that this will be the same next, week, and the following.

I'm upset I suppose that he hasn't magically come round and changed, not that I really expeced he would, but I've heard little from him, a couple of texts saying 'we can't split up as he knows he'll come good' which I ignored, and asking if he can come over and see me, which I just responded 'no it's definitely over'. Not that I think this will be the last I've heard, but who knows.

I've got lots of things to be getting on with, but everything feels a bit pointless right now (not dc of course), it's hard to explain.

Going to go to the cinema this afternoon as here's a film dc wants to see. But just generally feel a bit lost. I'm actually looking forward to going to work. The week will be easier as I will be so busy.

Officershitty Sun 19-May-13 09:59:15

Hi Mousey, just hang on in there. Are there any interest groups local to you that you could join- Gingerbread (?). What are you interested in and is there anything you could go to with or without your DC- Wildlife trust, church if you are into it can have local activities. Anything like that might help.

Mouseyinmyhousey Sun 19-May-13 09:59:21

I will have a look silvery I've been here before, the first few weeks are always so hard, then it eases up a bit, before getting a bit worse again, usually by which point he's begging me back and I go.

I'm not as bad as I have been before, I'm not sobbing or distraught, but I'm not sure if that's a good or a bad thing.

I guess it's either because I've woke up to it all, or because I'm masking my emotions...

Mouseyinmyhousey Sun 19-May-13 10:04:01

officer there's loads of stuff I want to do, with and without dc, but it's all that that feels a bit pointless right now.

Which is either hopefully just a temporary feeling, or a very bad sign that I was relying on ex to validate me, I fear it's the latter.

Officershitty Sun 19-May-13 10:26:54

It's understandable that it feels pointless. I felt I had a hole in my life that needed filling, when I left my ex. (I had made him too important in my life and he had taken up more 'space' in it than was healthy!) I started thinking about what my interests had been and hauled my arse out and started trying new things, even if in the early days I was offloading my feelings to whoever would listen! Gradually I got better and had new interests and new friends. It was difficult, but got easier as time went by.

Officershitty Sun 19-May-13 10:27:42

I really hope you feel better soon. flowers

BerylStreep Sun 19-May-13 10:30:44

Mousey, this is totally understandable, you probably feel like you are missing an arm..

But it may be worth scanning through your posts on this thread to remind you why you have ended it. In fact you said you couldn't even list some of the more cruel things he had done. It might be worth writing them done in a diary though, along with how you felt at the time. Things like not allowing you to phone him is horrible, I said before, the holiday episode would have been a deal-breaker for me, as would the chat rooms. On top of all that, you said he rarely apologises, or even acknowledges he was wrong, and in fact blames you.

It's easy to get sentimental about the things you will miss, whilst forgetting all the times he has made you feel second best.

The thing is, he sounds like a man-child, and you on the other hand sound lovely. You are worth so much more than him..

BerylStreep Sun 19-May-13 10:34:18

And your dc will grow up happier without some man-child sniping and criticising all the time. That would be the ultimate deal-breaker for me.

Mouseyinmyhousey Sun 19-May-13 10:46:24

Dc is another reason why I have had to make the break. Because as dc is getting older, the problems are becoming even more apparent.

The things with dc, they wern't big, obvious things. Ex never shouts, I'd never fear he'd be violent, he isn't out and out nasty. He was and always was helpful with dc from the time they met, I mean he'd go in and tuck dc in every night before bed. It's more he lacks empathy, in general, and lacks an understanding of child development and normal behaviour, and if I'm honest lacked interest and patience.

Jux Sun 19-May-13 10:52:34

OK, so things feel a bit pointless, but you know that they're not really. Go through the motions of doing those 'pointless' things anyway. They will fill your time, and lead to other things, and as you do them you will find they become less pointless.

Cinema sounds good too!

MadBusLady Sun 19-May-13 11:10:36

You're not droning at all, weekends are definitely the hardest part with breakups. Cinema sounds great because then you can just sit there passing the time without having too much expected of you. I think it is a question of that terrible phrase "fake it till you make it."

I don't know whether this is a helpful suggestion at all, but have you told any friends and would you consider it, and I mean properly telling them some of the bad things? Only people you really trust obviously. It would get you support and help to make it more real.

flippinada Sun 19-May-13 15:39:02

"It's more he lacks empathy, in general, and lacks an understanding of child development and normal behaviour, and if I'm honest lacked interest and patience"

See, this sort of thing, while "low-level" and not out and out awful is still damaging in the long term.

I think we're kind of conditioned into thinking you have to work things out and try hard in a relationship etc so unless someone behaves in away that is out and out horrible (eg having a affair) you find yourself excusing something like this that makes you feel uneasy (it's not that bad really, not used to kids etc).

WRT weekends, I think they can be very hard, particularly if you find yourself on your own and you're used to having company...weekends often seem full of couples/families doing coupley/family things but soon you will look forward to them..promise!

In fact, you'll be surprised at how quickly you begin feel better. Promise! smile

flippinada Sun 19-May-13 15:40:02

Double promise grin..that's how sure I am.

SugarPasteGreyhound Sun 19-May-13 17:47:32

Darling, the feeling shit part is totally normal. You are grieving which is natural and understandable. It will pass in time, the key is no contact. Think of it like a plaster - if you peel it off gradually, it prolongs the pain. Ripping it off in a clean sweep hurts like hell, but ultimately you'll be back to normal quicker.

You have been amazingly strong, well done. It's a hard thing to do - if it were easy then nobody would stay in an EA relationship.

The reminders about manipulation aren't to hurt you, although I know they are hard to read, but to stress to you that it's not you at fault - it's him. Men like this can be very charming when they want to be, to lull you back into a sense of security by being lovely and affectionate etc. But the security isn't real.

You have absolutely done the right thing. I promise you that in 3 months you will be so much happier.

SugarPasteGreyhound Sun 19-May-13 17:49:53

That's not to say that you will feel like this for 3 months! But that in 3 months I bet you won't miss him anymore, you will have had that magical moment where you realise one day that thinking about him doesn't hurt anymore.

wordyBird Sun 19-May-13 18:02:56

Great post from flippinada...

I think it feels confusing because your ex is not overtly controlling, as BerylS 's was (climbing up to the window after a 2 hour campaign! shock). Yours seems more of a drifting, somewhat parasitical type, who lies for fun and can't easily think of anything or anyone beyond himself.

He seems benign, but he isn't: he hurts your and dc's feelings without a second's thought. And he'll always do that. You can't make a partner or father out of such pathologically self centred material.

Expect more Mouseyin. Look out for a nice new partner, just to have fun with....when you feel able. You don't have to be on your own or with your ex, there is a third choice. wink

Mouseyinmyhousey Sun 19-May-13 21:31:42

Cheers everyone, your posts are very helpful, and give me that little boost to remind me why I'm doing this and why it has to be done.

Wordy you're right of course, I can meet someone else when I'm ready, of course it's easy to get caught up in feeling as though I won't, but it's unlikely I'll never be with anyone else!

All in all had a nice day, although have been getting a few texts, very along the lines of can't do this, I can change, I know I've been an idiot. But nothing of any substance. I've got to admit, and it isn't a good thing, that it's slightly comforting to know he's 'thinking about me', but at the same time it gets me really angry because he's talking out his arse again, it's meaningless drivel really, and it gets me mad because I think 'either change, or respect my wishes and sod off completely'.

did you reply?

Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii Sun 19-May-13 21:41:33

Don't read the texts. There is no point. When you see a text from him squint your eyes so you can't read it and DELETE.

Mouseyinmyhousey Sun 19-May-13 21:58:59

No I haven't replied, there's no need is there as I've said my bit?

I like the idea of squinting my eyes so not reading them, that made me smile.

They really are bloody pointless and meaningless aren't they.

Jux Sun 19-May-13 22:25:25

Yes. He's going through the motions in confidence that it'll work - it always did before. Why should he waste time respecting your wishes when he's never bothered before. Ah, she'll have me back, I've only got to send a few texts like this.....

He's wrong this time, isn't he. He'll find out.

Meanwhile, you can plan your life, your ds's life, days out, duvet days, garden days, holidays, anything at all you feel like. Have friends round, do an evening class, redecorate, swap furniture round, change rooms, anything!

Get new bedlinen, something you love but which you know he wouldn't want. It's symbolic.

HamsterDam Sun 19-May-13 22:38:34

well done mouse you will get there i promise i was in exactly the same position as you 6 months ago, your ex and mine could actually be twins. i made the mistake of keeping contact for a while but now im so much happier, i feel so free without all the drama and the let downs and feeling like last choice all the time. im out with my friends, doing things i love spending time with my ds, who's behavior has improved since he went aswel, not that he was ever naughty but yswim. my confidence has grown so much. i even went to the cinema on my own last night, just because i wanted to and i could .you will be the same, you can do it, you deserve better than him and now you're free for when the lucky man comes along.in the meantime just enjoy yourself, please yourself and your ds.

MadBusLady Mon 20-May-13 07:46:06

Morning mousey, hope you're ok this morning. smile The upside (as I think you said) of drooping around all weekend upset over some twat is that one really looks forward to work on Monday morning...

Mouseyinmyhousey Mon 20-May-13 10:36:02

Jux I like your ideas, I actually just might redecorate my bedroom.

Yes I'm ok, I think the weekdays are a bit easier as things don't feel so different as I'm doing what I'd usually do anyway.

I think my big problem is that a bit of me is still hoping he might magically change and do something once he sees I mean what I say, this is probably because he's still texting implying he will. But this is the thought that I have somehow got to shake off because it will only lead to more disappointment.

It's weird because I'm normally quite a cynical, ye of little faith type with people, never expecting anyone to change a habit of a lifetime. But for some reason with ex, I seem to have far, far too much faith.

Walkacrossthesand Mon 20-May-13 15:34:03

Hi Mousey, another voice to say - hang in there. I had a 3+ year LDR with a lovely lovely guy. Lovely in every sense except absolutely adamant that the relationship was not 'for keeps'. He was happy to carry on living in the moment, planning the next few meet-ups/trips - but not beyond that at all. I was able to see it as 'living in the moment' for , ooh, 2.5 years or so - but then the lack of any sense of future began to get to me more & more, I ended it (although he then said it was a mutual split hmm) and he let me go. If I add that he was in his mid40s, no significant LTR behind him, has since had another LDR that - surprise surprise - is foundering because he won't commit....Yes, you miss all the good stuff dreadfully but that can't make up for the hollow that was at the centre. A good relationship is fulfilling to the core, and worth waiting for. Hang in there!

Mouseyinmyhousey Mon 20-May-13 18:23:44

I so wish I hadn't stayed so long. I think if I'd had mn and sites like baggage reclaim I wouldn't have.

Been reading that Mr Unavailable and the fallback girl. It's like reading about my life for the last 4 years. The future faking, managing down my expectations by blowing hot and cold so I'm just grateful for the normal bits, the lazy communication, trying to win me back with promises when I end it. These guys practically have a script!

MadBusLady Mon 20-May-13 18:37:42

You're still only 28 though smile A spring chicken. I think that's a pretty good age to have discovered the Twat Scripts - lots of women stay stuck in these relationships for much longer.

SugarPasteGreyhound Mon 20-May-13 19:12:13

It's a learning experience lovey- now is the start of your new and improved life!

Mouseyinmyhousey Mon 20-May-13 19:55:04

True, on both points.

I guess I may not have believed it anyway at the time. Someone close to me did say once, probably over a year ago now 'you'll wise up to him one day, but it will be in your own time' I think I understand that now.

Jux Mon 20-May-13 20:41:29

Yes, they do have a script - it's amazing how they follow it slavishly.

You now have the whole of your life to find a good'un, but you may find that once you've got 'yourself' back, you don't necessarily want one grin

ShipwreckedAndComatose Mon 20-May-13 20:54:49

And this loser will become the twatometer in your life! The one you measure all others by

springymater Tue 21-May-13 01:26:37

Don't feel bad. Jerry Hall hung on all that time (decades).

flippinada Tue 21-May-13 17:19:34

I'm delighted to see upthread that someone thought one of my posts were excellent! People usually tell me (at length) why I'm wrong grin.

You are doing great mousey - you sound so much stronger and positive compared to, say this time last week.

I agree that these guys have a script and it's everything to do with failings on their part and not you.

Mouseyinmyhousey Tue 21-May-13 17:44:56

Thanks flippin.

I'm still getting texts each day, I don't know whether to just reply along the lines of 'I meant what I said', or just to keep ignoring as I've said my bit already.

I've ordered the Lundy Bancroft book. while ex may not fit into the category, I'm hoping it may help me to deal with some of the past men in my life.

Mouseyinmyhousey Tue 21-May-13 17:46:29

Deal with in my own mind I mean, I'm not planning on confronting all the men in my life with the book!

flippinada Tue 21-May-13 17:59:56

I knew what you meant smile.

I think ignoring is the best way to go. If you respond you'll just get drawn in again.

flippinada Tue 21-May-13 18:01:10

I also have the LB book, can't recommend it highly enough.

BigStickBIWI Tue 21-May-13 18:01:50

Maybe you should confront them all, Mousey! grin

SugarPasteGreyhound Tue 21-May-13 18:05:28

Keep ignoring them - if you reply then he knows that you are reading them, that you are still listening to him.

Silence is your best weapon here.

Mouseyinmyhousey Tue 21-May-13 18:07:58

Gosh I'm laughing here at the thought, small things please small minds smile

You're probably right, feels really nasty just completely ignoring, but I know one reply could easily end up in a conversation and so on.

MadBusLady Tue 21-May-13 18:10:58

It's not nasty, it's legitimate self-defence because you know you risk a whole lot of drama and heartache if you do reply. I think <hobby horse alert> we're very conditioned as women to be "nice" to people, placate them, speak when spoken to etc, even when they mean us harm, and it gets us into a lot of trouble.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Tue 21-May-13 18:22:10

I think he's banking on the fact you will think it's nasty not to.

flippinada Tue 21-May-13 18:53:36

You are not being nasty not responding, as MadBusLady says, it's self defence. She's also spot on about women being conditioned to be nice. don't be so 'nice' - practice being selfish for a bit.

Jux Tue 21-May-13 19:12:50

You've split up. You've asked him nicely to leave you alone.

It would be incredibly sensible to block him. You won't feel nasty for ignoring him (you're not being nasty of course; he is being a major fuckwit entitled arse by not respecting your wishes) if his messages don't even get through.

It would also make it a lot easier for you in these early days (and doesn't he know so so well that he needs to reel you in back in quickly or it'll just be much harder work the longer it takes).

Do you still have some of his stuff?

Jux Tue 21-May-13 19:16:35

You only need one more contact if you do still have some stuff, which only needs to be (said upthread I think) where and when he can get it and if he doesn't you will assume that he no longer claims ownership of it and you will dispose of it as you please.

That's it. Once done, block him. Erase him from your phone.

BigStickBIWI Tue 21-May-13 19:17:05

And after all, what's to talk about? You've told him what you want. He's not respecting you - again - by trying to talk.

Mouseyinmyhousey Tue 21-May-13 19:37:02

There are some things here, although I asked him at the time, think it was thursday, what he wanted doing with them but he didn't answer, don't really know what to think to that, we've split up before for weeks and he doesn't bother collecting it, and he tends to take stuff he really cares about. My friend said to just bag it all up and chuck it in the shed for now.

BigStickBIWI Tue 21-May-13 19:38:03

I would. Don't let him use it as an excuse to come round and see you again. Drop them off at his house, or get a mutual friend to come and get them.

Mouseyinmyhousey Tue 21-May-13 19:41:18

And no there's nothing to talk about, he knows what I think, I don't like ultimatums but I think he thinks if he just says he will change bla, bla it will all be ok for a bit longer. I did try to explain last week clearly the why's of it all.

Jux Tue 21-May-13 19:50:18

I had a bf like that. Things were going to be different 'this time', he had changed, blah blah blah. SEVEN YEARS altogether. Seven years of my life!

Bag his crap, ask someone to dump it at his place for you, send text telling him when it'll be there, block /erase him. That's symbolic too!

DawnOfTheDee Tue 21-May-13 19:50:39

Mousey Just checked back on this thread and i wanted to say how happy i am for you that you're getting this cockwomble out of your life - you've had some great advice from the lovely ladies on here too.

I expect he didn't answer you about his stuff because he expected to have 'won' you back by now. I'd be tempted to tell him you'll leave it outside for collection on a particular day then take it to the tip/charity shop if he doesn't come and get it.

Mouseyinmyhousey Tue 21-May-13 20:04:01

I can't quite believe I've lasted 4, when we haven't progressed at all. well, he'd say we have, he'd say he's got 'better'.

I'll drop his stuff off at the weekend, dc has a party in between our two towns so I'll do it then, I'll just put it over the back gate though. I was going to tell him I'd leave it outside, but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't bother coming to get it, then I thought he'd probably want to come in if he did. then I thought I could make sure I'm out, but am I encouraging him to come over, so easy I just drop it and can't overthink it then.

Jux Tue 21-May-13 20:33:03

Keep him out of your neck of the woods. If you're out he'll hang about waiting for you, and if you're in he'll try to come in. Don't do it to yourself.

I was going to say that it would be better if you could get someone else to take it to his place as he is likely to come rushing out if he knows you're coming; but if you're just going to drop it over the back gate - and can do it knowing he won't see you - and then text him to say it's there, it's not so likely to upset the equilibrium you've achieved. (Toys with the idea of dropping it over the gate at midnight.....grin)

BigStickBIWI Tue 21-May-13 20:44:54

grin @ cockwomble!

HamsterDam Tue 21-May-13 21:23:36

well done mouse, really rooting for you and you're doing everything right, keep it up. how's your ds? is he asking about ex? will make it harder if he does have you thought about what you will say/do?

DawnOfTheDee Tue 21-May-13 21:24:36

Good plan Mousey smile

Mouseyinmyhousey Tue 21-May-13 22:21:14

No I haven't thought about what to say to dc. Dc does ask when is ex coming over. But at the same time, dc has been happy, I don't really want to say this because I could end up on an emotional rollercoaster any day now. but things have been quite relaxed. And I've had more time and energy to focus on dc.

Ok so when ex was here, we had fun, we'd be more likely to go on a spontaneous day out than I might by myself, and it was nice having an extra pair of hands. But sometimes I'd be really hassled when ex was here, not because ex wad doing anything wrong, but because I might be trying to do two teas as ex would come over later than dc would need to eat, or ex might have got dc really excited, I can say stick a film on for dc at the weekend while I get on with jobs, without worrying that ex wants to watch his sport, none of these things are bad at all, but just in terms of the house feeling bigger, calmer, but the novelty of this will probably wear off quite quickly. But I've been doing things like reading lots of books to dc cuddled up in bed.

I'm not sure whether I should tell dc something, or just keep making an excuse and hoping that for dc the memory of ex will eventually drift away, dc is 5.

BerylStreep Wed 22-May-13 16:11:02

I would just ignore.

Did you ever get your back-door keys from him?

It's hard to know what to do say to your DC. My DS has just turned 6, and I can't imagine him just forgetting something like that. Perhaps you could suggest that it would be quite nice for it just to be mummy and him/ her for a while - and explain that the 2 of you can do lots of nice things together such as watching whatever you want on TV, and going out here, there etc (basically, all the sticking points that there were with ex).

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 22-May-13 18:34:15

He left back door keys on the day, basically what he'd done was taken them when he left, came through Yeh back door after I'd gone to work, left the keys and let himself out the front door.

I will deal with it with the in the short term, I'm slightly more concerned about long term and the effect all this may have. Dc will have no memory at all or real dad, but obviously will have of ex. I'm worried that will be difficult to explain in years to come as dc will obviously have long term memories of ex. But hopefully I will be able to explain in an age appropriate way.

I was feeling really guilty earlier, been getting lots of texts, some I've deleted without reading, some saying how fed up he is and to stop this madness. Oh and apparently he's got a surprise for me. I was beginning to feel bad but have then got really, really angry for some reason, thinking about all sorts of times he's treated me badly and with a complete lack.of basic respect. I've ended up feeling furious, neither of which feel good.

flippinada Wed 22-May-13 18:43:57

I understand your concern about DC.

I think it's fine to say something along the lines of ex was a good friend (slight exaggeration I know but for DC), but you don't want to be friends with him anymore cos he wasn't very nice to you.

flippinada Wed 22-May-13 18:47:33

It's very telling that he won't accept your decision, with all the silly texts

A man who respected your boundaries wouldn't behave like that. He'd leave you alone.

BerylStreep Wed 22-May-13 19:03:13

Yep Flippinada, I agree. No respect for your decision or boundaries.

Perhaps 1 text. 'Please stop contacting me. I have told you it is over. Further contact will be reported as harassment.'

MadBusLady Wed 22-May-13 19:11:31

saying how fed up he is and to stop this madness

hmm Urgh. Yes, not surprised you're feeling furious.

HamsterDam Wed 22-May-13 19:21:35

totally get what you mean about things being calmer my ex would always get ds all excited jumping about play fighting close to bedtime.
when your confidence has grown abit which it will you will be able to do days out just you and ds, whatever and wherever you want.
no advice what to do with regards to telling dc or whatever im in the same boat and at abit of a lose at the minute, not seen ex for 2months now my ds nearly 4 is talking about him everyday, really don't know what to say. we won't be seeing him again i feel sad for my ds he's lost one of his best friends

DawnOfTheDee Wed 22-May-13 19:55:00

I'd suggest not sending ANY replies to him.

If you do, even along the lines of 'please stop', all you will have done is given him the message that it takes x days of harassing texts to get your attention.

Nice to hear your having quality time with your DC...sounds lovely.

Jux Wed 22-May-13 21:24:40

You have asked him to leave you alone. You have told him why.

He has called your decision madness.
He is not leaving you alone.

There are laws against harrassment, and this is harrassment.

I'm not surprised you're really angry. The disrespect he is showing you now, is echoing all the disrespect he has shown you throughout your 4 year relationship. That's 4 years of disrespect which he is beautifully wrapping up in an easily accessable parcel for you now.

You could report him, you know. If this carries on much longer, I would advise that you do.

IKnowWhat Wed 22-May-13 22:16:37

Why are you feeling guilty confused? I understand you having mixed emotions about everything but you shouldn't feel any guilt. IMO you have not done anything wrong.

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 22-May-13 22:49:55

I'm not sure why I feel guilty, perhaps guilty is the wrong word. But it doesn't feel good to think someone else is feeling bad.

I'm having mixed emotions today, going from feeling really angry to really sad. Thinking of all the really horrible things he's done, but all the really nice things.

Having said all that, I know this is not my fault, its not as though I just got bored of him, or cheated, I had very good reason to end it. And I've no doubt that despite all the things he's saying, he probably doesn't feel half as bad as I do, I was a lot more invested in the relationship than he was.

I think I wish we could just mutually agree to end it.

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 22-May-13 22:53:27

I did read about this in my baggage reclaim book, it's all part if the script, Mr won't commit will bombard you with declarations of love once you end it, and suddenly promise you everything you already wanted, but with no substance, because he won't commit to you, but won't commit to not having you around either!

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 22-May-13 22:56:34

I do also think that not responding is probably important for me to detach. But ignoring someone goes completely against the way I am, it just seems so completely ignorant

Jux Wed 22-May-13 23:31:12

It's hard, but you are doing it and can go on doing it. Dignified silence; you will be able to review your actions in the future without shame or embarrassment, if you maintain that dignified silence. And yes, it will go a long way to helping you detach and get over him more quickly, and to move on with your life.

Yes, he doesn't feel half as bad as you do. It's possible that he doesn't actually feel bad at all, but is just following the script because that is what he does. He wasn't particularly invested emotionally, he was going through the motions I suppose, and so he's going through the motions now.

You have every right to be furious. Don't deny your emotions, it's all part of the healing. Sadness is too.

StuntGirl Wed 22-May-13 23:58:56

Oh gosh, I'm so glad to see you say you're getting angry! I think you're starting to move from denial to anger and that's a good thing.

I just read the whole thread silently praying that by the time I got to page 16 you were sticking to your guns - deliriously happy to see that's the case.

It seems you have quite low self esteem and quite low expectations about relationships; have you thought about having some counselling or anything to try and help? You've spent 4 years with an abusive man so your boundaries and perceptions of what's normal are probably all over the shop.

I think the suggestion upthread about redecorating your room - or even just a new duvet set or a new picture/mirror for your wall will help you feel as if things have changed and are moving on.

I would also text him and say "Anything you had left at mine will be put in bin bags and left outside the house on (xx day). If they are not collected by (xx time) I will presume you don't want them and throw them away". Then continue to ignore his messages and chuck his stuff out if he doesn't collect. He needs to see some affirmative action that says "I meant what I said".

You'll never meet a better man while you're still clinging onto this loser.

springymater Thu 23-May-13 01:26:32

No, I wouldn't text him about his stuff. Chuck it over the wall, as you planned. win/win.

It is a codependent characteristic to have a finely-tuned antennae for other people's suffering, but a dull antennae for your own. You might want to look into codependence.

Reading between the lines, it looks like when you were together you had roars of fun, larking about, playing... But relationships aren't all about that are they? yy it's good to have fun....

He's not Tom Hanks in Big is he? (does he jump on the bed??)

MadBusLady Thu 23-May-13 07:09:51

Oh god, I know how this feels; the overwhelming feeling of obligation to talk to someone/respond to them/be nice to them because they are talking to you. I think this is what attracts the twats, because they sense they can kind of decide for us how a situation is going to go. They're so sure about what they want, and we're so unsure, that it seems like the logical thing to do is fall into line with them.

But really, truly, there is no law of the universe that says you have to return anyone's contact on their terms. I like springy's antennae thing.

Mouseyinmyhousey Thu 23-May-13 07:39:39

No he didn't jump on the bed! haven't seen that film. In fact he was too reserved for my liking, I think it was me who thought any playfulness out in him.

The low self esteem and codependency ring true, however I feel as though my self esteem has improved in certain ways, can it just magically improve?

MadBusLady Thu 23-May-13 07:45:47

That's been my experience, yes. smile I think sometimes one just grows into oneself a bit, without the need to specifically "work on" self-esteem or whatever.

Self-esteem is a bit of a nebulous idea, but really it's just the sum total of how you feel about the stuff you do and the person you are every day. So if the stuff you do every day is productive, constructive, represents you doing things you want to do, and going in a direction you want to go in, then yes I think self-esteem can improve just like that.

Mouseyinmyhousey Thu 23-May-13 07:47:32

With regards to my self esteem, it's as if I've suddenly had a revelation, not just this last week, but last few months, that actually no it's not me, it's him. Not to say that I am perfect by any means, but I didn't single handedly do all this.

It is also probably things like lurking on mn, some of the books I've been reading, and just time that have helped me make that revelation. I spent a lot of time before thinking there must be something very wrong with me for someone to treat me so badly.

MadBusLady Thu 23-May-13 07:48:29

When I say "stuff you do" that makes it sound a bit challenging, I don't mean feeling good because you've climbed Everest or anything. Just going through a normal day in a way that meets your goals and suits your view of yourself, if that makes sense.

MadBusLady Thu 23-May-13 07:49:47

x posts flowers smile

Morning Mousey! Just checking in to say you seem to have come a long way since you started this thread. Very well done.

Hope today's a good day for you thanks

Jux Thu 23-May-13 08:46:23

grinthanksgrinthanksgrinthanksgrinthanksgrinthanks

You are great, Mousey! You have me almost dancing a jig, reading your last post (and I only ever do sitting-down-mummy-dancing grin)

Mouseyinmyhousey Fri 24-May-13 14:17:13

He's sent flowers to my work today, wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't turn up tonight.

MadBusLady Fri 24-May-13 14:32:58

Eek, that idea always makes me cringe!

What's your plan if he does turn up? And do you have anything nice planned for the weekend?

Mouseyinmyhousey Fri 24-May-13 14:40:04

I don't really have one, hide?

Depending on the weather painting my dcs room. If the weather nice though it will be out and about, picnic, a nice park.

MadBusLady Fri 24-May-13 14:41:28

Yes, that's all I meant really. grin I was just kind of checking you're still feeling ok about it all. (Well, not ok, but you know what I mean. At peace with the decision.)

Mouseyinmyhousey Fri 24-May-13 14:51:24

I'm still sure it's the right decision. And nothing he's said has made me think hey, he's had a revelation. But it is difficult because he's still pursuing if that makes sense.

BigStickBIWI Fri 24-May-13 16:46:45

Just remember Mousey HE IS A TWAT! He is sending you flowers because this is the universal language of love. How could he be a bad man if he is sending you flowers? But he is sending you flowers because he expects you to respond in a predictable way. You are supposed to be grateful and to fall gratefully into his arms, because he has declared his undying love for you.

But you are wiser than that, aren't you?!

wordyBird Fri 24-May-13 17:05:38

Ah, flowers! <ticks box>

He's already covered 'I've been an idiot, I can change'....

What's next... perhaps he'll say you don't know what you're doing, Mouseyin...or that he's worried about you?

Next... well he might try extreme emotional blackmail, as before.

....just taking the mick a little, to try and keep your spirits up, Mouseyin. He'll probably subject you to quite a campaign before he gives up. Anything we can do to help, let us know.

Hope he leaves you in peace tonight.

Mouseyinmyhousey Fri 24-May-13 17:18:09

He's already said he's worried about me and will text my.dad.to see if I'm ok. And said he feels used.

I've been thinking about it driving all the way home, it would be easy to just cave in and say ok. But nothing will change, he'll still lie, still keep me at arms length, we still won't live together, I'd still be on edge all the time wondering when the next time he's going to fall out with me.

MadBusLady Fri 24-May-13 17:26:01

Cheeky patronising bastard! He's going to text your dad?? Does he think you're five?

Even amongst all the other bollocks "used" is particularly baffling. There was a relationship, you ended it. There just isn't a way in which he could possibly feel "used". Suspect what he really means is "puzzled you're not falling into line".

Jux Fri 24-May-13 17:41:22

grin @ MadBusLady "puzzled you're not falling into line". Spot on!

.... and the phoning your dad. What right has he to do that? He is ratcheting it up, looking for allies that are very close to you. Again, no respect for you at all. He is hoping that someone 'in authority' will tell you to behave yourself. Treating you like a small child.

The only good thing about all his doings is that he is proving over and over that he is exactly that twat that you know he is.

"Here you are, Mousey. See how twuntish I am? How can you resist me?"

pah!

IKnowWhat Fri 24-May-13 18:11:29

You need to stop reading the texts.

I hope your Dad tells him to bugger off!

Mouseyinmyhousey Fri 24-May-13 18:28:11

He won't text my dad.

The reason he's saying that is because he knows I don't tell my dad certain things because of how my dad will react. My dad has bad health and gets very stressed out if he thinks there's something wrong for example this what's happening now.

So ex thinks that by saying he'll contact my dad I'll get in a flap and speak to him. But he won't, there's no way he'd involve anyone else, he's way too reserved for that.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Fri 24-May-13 19:07:45

Is he my ex H????

I recognise so many of these stupid lines.

'I know what's best for you' was one classic I got!

MadBusLady Fri 24-May-13 19:10:23

Wow, you've got his number now mousey. What a manipulative cock!

Kernowgal Fri 24-May-13 19:21:02

My ex also said he "felt used", which was hilarious as he did nothing around the house, cooked only when his children were staying, and happily let me pay for everything, used my car when he couldn't be arsed to fill up his van (yes I was a total mug).

Used, mate? Guess who felt used that time you shouted at me "I JUST WANT MY FUCKING DINNER" when I asked if you wanted rice with your (homemade from scratch) curry.

The other classic was "we're not on the same wavelength", designed to make me do anything he wanted so that he wouldn't leave me. Again, towards the end I used to think "no, we really aren't. Your wavelength is apparently beamed in from Planet Wanker".

Mouseyinmyhousey Fri 24-May-13 19:24:54

I don't know but there's certainly a pattern shipwrecked isn't there, a script?

What's so frustrating about all of this is I haven't done this for fun, I'm not enjoying this, it's not like I've dumped him for another bloke. I was the one who really, really wanted it to work.

I've done this because he just refused to commit to anything at all, not only that but he lied constantly, let me down, went in grumps and broke up with me, made me suffer by giving me the silent treatment, treated me really badly at times, yet somehow I've ended up being the bad one, the one who feels like a cow.

Mouseyinmyhousey Fri 24-May-13 19:35:50

Kernowgal, what a complete twat.

To be fair, ex would cook, he did pay for things, I wouldn't have said anyone was using anyone, accept maybe him using me just to have the status and benefits of a girlfriend without having to be fully 'there'.

But he has in the past used lines like, 'I'm starving so it had better be a big dinner', when he's put me through hell and back threatening to end it all because he's tired and had enough of me 'on at him', and 'don't be at me when I get there or I'll flip out'. Me being on at him is just me asking if I need to do an extra plate of tea for him.

He also once accused me of wanting him to die because I invited him round for homemade burgers. And no my cookings not that bad. Basically I was doing burgers and thought I'd offer as I knew he liked them, all I said was 'I'm doing burgers would you like to come for tea, understand if not if you're tired', his response was no because he wants to get out of the habit of coming to see me in the week, I responded something like 'nice to know I'm a habit' and he completely went mad about me 'putting pressure on him' and how I clearly don't care about everything he has to do and how he could die on the icy roads in the morning and that's obviously what I want.

SugarPasteGreyhound Fri 24-May-13 20:09:34

How's it going mousey?

Fluffycloudland77 Fri 24-May-13 20:14:11

Yes, I always ask dh if he wants burgers for tea if I want him to die.

That's how he knows he's in trouble.

If I ask if he wants fish and chips he stays at his mums for the night, you don't want to know what that's code for.

Kernowgal Fri 24-May-13 21:45:50

Fluffy grin

springymater Fri 24-May-13 22:06:36

eww he really is a cock isn't he?

like, EWWWWW

I'd block him iiwy. He's going to go up a gear and I don't think it'll be nice. Mind you, you might want to see it to thoroughly, I mean THOROUGHLY, convince yourself you've done the right thing.

Used eh? USED <repeating myself a lot here>

HAHAHA - no, wait

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

<WANKER>

springymater Fri 24-May-13 22:08:24

You know what he's been doing all this time? Making sure you get it that he's DOING YOU A FAVOUR to have a relationship with you.

what. a. cock.

You deserve better (anything's better than him tbh)

BerylStreep Fri 24-May-13 22:28:56

flowers at work is low - designed to show everyone at your work what a heroic guy he is.

And he threatens to text your Dad? What a git.

Have fun decorating this weekend!

BerylStreep Fri 24-May-13 22:35:16

Actually, I have just remembered why I have such a vehement dislike of flowers. It is so effing manipulative. It says: I have spent lots of money on these showing you how much I care. You are supposed to be grateful, and like them. Not only that, I am showing everyone else what a great guy I am. And I expect you to be reminded of all this every time you look at them.'

That dreadful ex of mine used to do that. As if a few dead stalks erases being an utter wanker.

I hope you gave them to someone else.

Mouseyinmyhousey Fri 24-May-13 22:38:50

Actually I was going to ask, the flowers are sitting in my hall, what to do? Keep them, give them away, bin them?

MadBusLady Fri 24-May-13 23:04:33

Oh if you like them, I'd keep them. They mean nothing of themselves, they're flowers. Not their fault they were bought by a twat! If they make you feel uncomfortable/guilty though, then bin or give away.

BigStickBIWI Fri 24-May-13 23:07:52

Enjoy them for what they are - I.e. lovely flowers

aufaniae Fri 24-May-13 23:18:28

I'd bin them. They're a reminder of him, even if subconscious. You need to be thinking about him less not more. Get rid IMO.

Jux Fri 24-May-13 23:29:54

Hmmm, if they give you a jolt every time you see them and remind you of him, then give them away or bin them.

If you like them because they're pretty, and colourful, and smell nice, and you like flowers, then keep the.

Personally, I like flowers once they've dried out and gone those beautiful subtle shades of the colours they once were. I've got 4 vases of dead, dried out flowers in my house atm. You have to be careful moving them as they are so dessicated they fall apart at the drop of a hat. I spray them with hairspray in the hope it helps keep them whole. It doesn't work if a cat jumps up and knocks them though grin

Mouseyinmyhousey Fri 24-May-13 23:31:53

Do you know what I feel like, I feel like I can't properly start getting over the relationship until he stops contacting me, because at the minute it still all doesn't feel quite real. Because I'm still going between feeling angry and guilty.

And I don't feel completely in control because I don't know when he will give in.

Mouseyinmyhousey Fri 24-May-13 23:35:14

They probably will remind me, and remind me of flowers in happier times. But I'd feel too wasteful and guilty to throw them, and to even give them away.

It's weird because I'm almost worried what he'd think, I know he'd be annoyed if I bin them or give them away, but that's irrational because he's not even going to know.

I would just chuck them in the bin.

You've ended it. It's over.

His attentions are unwanted.

He wasted those flowers, not you.

He has to accept it's over now.

Jux Sat 25-May-13 01:57:03

Old people's home?
Hospice?
Hospital?

There are lots of places where flowers would be greatly appreciated, if you can't being yourself to bin them. As you think they will remind you of him, it looks like the most sensible thing to do is to give them to smeone else.

springymater Sat 25-May-13 09:34:11

He's put you through hell, on and on; yet you feel guilty because of a transient, and suspect, gesture. You're worried you're going to 'hurt' him by getting rid (of him and the flowers)?

Perhaps have a look to see if there's a CoDA meeting near you.

springymater Tue 28-May-13 11:16:55

OP? how's it going?

(please don't say you've caved to his vile charm . ok, if you have caved, come back and talk it through..)

xx

BerylStreep Tue 28-May-13 22:28:44

Mousey, how was your weekend?

BerylStreep Wed 12-Jun-13 16:59:04

Mousey, how are things? I assume from the radio silence that the flowers worked and you are back together.

Don't worry if you think we are going to judge (well we might a little). MN will always be here for you.

I really hope things work out for you.

Mouseyinmyhousey Mon 17-Jun-13 22:15:32

I'd like to come back to this thread if I can. I'm sorry that I haven't been on but please don't think it's because I don't appreciate the support I've had from the thread.

It's been a mixture of things, partly down to the fact I had no internet for 5 days waiting for a new router, and then couldn't really face coming back and also not having much time to myself.

The Saturday, the day after I last posted on this thread he turned up first thing in the morning, dc was in my bed and he knocked the door. I didn't answer but he started shouting through the letterbox, dc was upset as to why I wasn't answering the door. He eventually went after aroudn half an hour and me hiding in my bedroom, I went downstairs to make breakfast and he came back, posted the birthday card through the door that I'd given him, then started shouting dcs name through the door, up at the window. He was there around another 10 minutes, I put dc in the bath so that dc couldn't hear. We hadn't even had our breakfast by this point.

I asked him to go away through the door, he then came and sat in the garden (my back gate was broken, now fixed), he was just sat out there. I put dc in bedroom to play and went down. I'm not sure how long it was I was telling him to go away but he wouldn't, he put his foot in the door, I know I could have called the police but I didn't want all that.

In the end I went to make breakfast for me and dc. He just started playing with dc as though nothing had happened.

I didn't speak to him all day until I had to go and take my sister birthday present round, I hadn't told my sister we'd split up yet.

Anyway he was begging me to give him another go, said all the right things, hard to even remember now but he just said everything.

I just felt utterly deflated, trapped, a bit of me wanted to believe him but I didn't, I had no energy to argue, I went along with it in an 'ok but I know you'll mess up soon'.

And of course things haven't been smooth sailing.

All kinds of dramas have happened since, firstly I found a key to my house in his work van which I had no idea he had, he'd got it cut secretly.

He's bought a load of his stuff over including some furniture items.

He said he wanted to take me out for a nice meal for a treat, I arranged a babysitter then he clean forgot and told me he was meeting his mate, although he didn't meet the mate in the end he told me I was a bully and making a fuss over nothing because I was annoyed.

He took dc to swimming lesson, I asked one thing that dc was his hair. Dc came back with hair unwashed and apparently dc was impossible and was making a fuss about the shower being too hot like a 'big baby'. This made my blood boil and I told him he was treading on very thin ice but his answer was 'he's entitled to his opinion'.

He's been here every day so I haven't had any chance to even think.

He said he wanted to go on holiday, found one, booked it for in 5 weeks time, this was yesterday. He's told me today he wants to cancel it because he can't really afford it. He had quite a bit of money from something he sold, so he said he'd pay for the holiday if I bought the spending money. This was all agreed now he doesn't want to go. In the end he said he'd have a think about it before cancelling it. But he's said I'm not treating him very well, I admit I haven't been all lovey dovey as usual because I wasn't entirely happy but I said I'd give it a go, and I have, I haven't exactly been evil either, he's been getting fresh bread bought for him for work every day, tea made every night, he's been round my house every day.

I'm not sure what I'm looking for here, and I'm not really surprised, I'm angry with myself for letting this happen, I can't really think straight.

My heart is breaking for dc. Dc asked to wait up for him tonight but he wasn't coming, because he's been here every night dc is used to it. I don't even give a stuff about the holiday for myself, but how can you tell a child they're going on holiday then take it away from them?

I know it's all my own fault, I'm the parent I'm supposed to protect dc, but I'm just one person.

Walkacrossthesand Mon 17-Jun-13 22:34:56

Welcome back, Mousey. Sounds like you're regretting giving in to his very determined attempts to get his feet back under your table, and you now have what amounts to an unwelcome house guest. Remind me, is it your house? If so, then you are entitled to live in it in peace if only you'd called the police when he was shouting through your letterbox - will you do it next time d'you think? You are the grownup here but it sounds like you are being pulled every which way out of a desire to do right by your DC. He is not 'right' - hold onto that , and steer your course to a life without him in it.

BerylStreep Mon 17-Jun-13 22:38:13

Oh Mousey, it sounds like you need a massive unMN hug.

He really has absolutely no respect for you or your boundaries at all, does he? The de facto moving in without discussion, having secret copies of keys cut, the yelling through the letterbox, then manipulating you by appealing to your DC - it is stalker material. His initials aren't JG are they? <Thinks of my stalker ex>

You know that this is harassment, and the police would support you if you turned to them?

The changing his mind over the holiday thing seems scarily familiar.

You don't sound like you actually want to be with him, but that you caved in to his brow beating (and it's hard to stand up to that sort of campaign, but trust me, he is not some sort of love struck Hugh Grant in a Richard Curtis movie - he's a waste of space dickhead who treats you badly).

What RL support do you have which you can turn to? He seems indomitable - what he wants is what counts - it seems as if you have no say in the matter.

Have you considered doing the Freedom programme through Women's Aid?

chipmonkey Mon 17-Jun-13 22:52:52

Mousey, tell him it's over, it's not working out,
Put his stuff outside and change the locks in case he has cut another key.
If he pulls the same stunt again and won't leave, call the police.
He will never change.

Mouseyinmyhousey Tue 18-Jun-13 00:14:30

Sorry my post was very jumbled, just typed it all out quickly. Couldn't really think, my head was mushed thinking of all of the dramas that have happened in only two-three weeks already.

When he turned up I know I could have called the police, I didn't want to because I didn't want to make a scene in front of the neighbours, I didn't want the shame of being a grown women involved with such an idiot I'm having to fetch the police. It also has the potential to be very awkward because of where I work without saying too much.

If I'd been in alone I'd have just ignored it, but it was too much with dc and him making it known he was there.

I thought I could explain face to face I didn't want to get back together, but he wouldn't accept it of course.

I'm so angry and scrambled because he's sort of railroaded me into getting back with him, only to behave like a total fuckwit again like I knew he would, like I told him he would. Then he had the nerve to say to me I know what he's like and why did I get back with him when I know he can't change.

He suggested the holiday, he pushed for it, he booked it yesterday, why on earth want to cancel it the very next day? Nothing has happened between then and now. He probably won't even cancel it, I think he's playing around with me. He text me saying he won't cancel it if I really want to go but perhaps I should go on ym own as I'll have a better time. He's messing with my head I'm sure he is. I'm beginning to think he gets some kind of kick out of watching me turn into a wreck.

The secret key, the calling my dc a big baby, it all makes me sick.

The house is not his, he has no rights to be here. I don't have enough rl support at all. I have considered freedom programme and counselling, but everytime I come close to doing something about it, I end up back with him.

I'm so worried I've got myself into a nastier situation than I've realised. Where I might have to take some serious action to get out. I don't know what his next move is going to be, whether he'll wake up tomorrow saying sorry, or whether he will do the silent treatment, or whether he'll hassle me.

I don't even know anything when I'm with him, I don't even know if when I go to the shops he'll still be there when I get back. By the same time I don't even know if I end it, will he leave me alone or will he turn up again.

Better go to bed now, I've done nothing I needed to do this evening.

chipmonkey Tue 18-Jun-13 00:45:08

Oh, Mousey, I can see exactly how you let him back in and why. But you know he can't stay. He has no right to call your poor dc a big baby.
Forget about the holiday. He is using it to manipulate you and mess with your head, using it as a carrot to dangle in front of you.
He is so not worth the headspace.
There is nothing shameful in calling the police. One of my neighbours called the police on her abusive H. As neighbours, we have nothing but respect for her for doing the right thing for herself and her dc's.
You can also call the police and tell them that you are going to kick him out and that he might get aggressive. It won't be the first time they've had a call like that.

Mouseyinmyhousey Tue 18-Jun-13 09:17:55

I don't even think he can cancel the holiday, it's fairly last minute and wouldn't get much if any money back.

If I stayed with him I'm sure he will use it to mess with me. If I end it again he'll blame me for the money lost, use it against me in that way. I should have just said I wouldn't go in the first place because I KNOW what he's like, I've let myself get swept up with it all.

I feel as though he's forced me to be with him but still under his shitty terms.

One good thing has come if it though, I now know he had a key to my house, I wouldn't have even known he had that.

I've got knots in my stomach thinking about it all. It's as though he thinks he walks on water, so above anything he does wrong yet I am expected to accept it all and still be there for when he chooses.

I've no idea what he's going to say or do next.

Lovestosing Tue 18-Jun-13 10:30:32

Don't blame yourself for letting him back in, he sounds extremely manipulative at best and downright intimidating at worst, I think you felt like you had no choice. He is a nasty piece of work and after the swimming incident I wouldn't trust him alone with my DC. You know what you have to do, finish him and I agree with Chipmonkey, phone the non emergency police number and tell them you're going to me your relationship and you have good reason to believe he will turn nasty.
I can understand that you feel worried and embarrassed about having to call the police, not that you need to, how can you be responsible for someone else's behaviour? You know what you have to do for you and DS. Do not hesitate to call the police if he becomes threatening, he's counting on you not doing anything about it, please don't play into his hands. Good luck!

IAmNotAMindReader Tue 18-Jun-13 10:36:42

You need help to get him to stay away there is no shame in that.
He booked the holiday it is his problem.
Contact the police who gives a shite what they neighbours think he is intent on destroying yours and your dc's lives just to suit his own whims.

You are not responsible for his actions.

Tell him to go. Go to the police and tell them what happened last time and get an injunction out to get him to stay away.

He has you conditioned to put your own needs last and now he is starting on your child and is trying to make you put his needs above your childs. Don't let him do this.

spillows Tue 18-Jun-13 10:41:00

Can you get the locks changed?

springytat Tue 18-Jun-13 11:00:24

This is a time to get Womens Aid on your side. You need a support worker by your side to get you through this. He is messing with your head and you don't know whether you're coming or going.

Call them at your earliest - 0808 2000 247. The lines are busy during the day so it's best to call between 7pm - 7am if you can. This is domestic abuse Mousey - you don't have to be hit to be a victim of domestic abuse.

springytat Tue 18-Jun-13 11:00:56

Did you take the key he'd had cut btw?

Mouseyinmyhousey Tue 18-Jun-13 13:26:46

I did take the key he'd had cut although I can't be totally sure they're aren't more. I can look into cost of changing locks. I don't feel happy now, even though I'm sure I'm in no danger. and have bolts when I'm inside its just the thoughts that someone I trust so little could potentially have access to my home.

springytat Tue 18-Jun-13 13:33:10

Please get in touch with Womens Aid today. Get the ball rolling. You come on a huge leap when you talk to someone from Womens Aid, especially as they will assign you a support worker. There's something about a rl person talking in a focused way about the situation that really helps to bring clarity and strength. xx

Mouseyinmyhousey Tue 18-Jun-13 13:46:57

Thanks springy, I suppose I just feel as though it's not serious enough for WA as there's not violence, I am starting to think he's EA but not in an obvious way. He doesn't shout, name call, anything like that.

What would I say to WA, what would I ask for? Is it just about emotional support? Counselling?

springytat Tue 18-Jun-13 15:11:01

It took me many years (too many years sad ) to realise I was in a domestic abuse situation. I thought I was a fake because I was never hit. I read all the blurb but didn't dare approach any agencies.

However, I was very seriously abused. He was probably too clever to hit me tbh. anyways, your situation is domestic abuse. He forces you to do what he wants, he harasses you, trashes your boundaries, emotionally seduces you (promises), has secret access to your property (so you are worried he will gain entry when you are not there) without your permission. He won't take no for an answer, he insists on doing what he wants. He marks his territory by moving in his stuff. he keeps you short of money. He books holidays then changes his mind (headfuck), which keeps you off-balance, on the back foot. He knows he can use the kids to get to you so he uses them.

A clear indicator that you are being abused is that you are confused and finding it hard to hold your boundaries; in fact, are losing sight of what your boundaries actually are because he bombards you. Your confusion and disorientation point very squarely to the fact that you are being abused, controlled and dominated by him.

So, that makes you a victim of domestic abuse, which makes you a candidate for help and support from a specialised agency. Just tell WA your story and they will take it from there. They are the experts and know what to offer and how to support you. You may feel better sending an email if you find it hard to find the words verbally. This thread may be a good thing to send.

Good luck, sweetheart. Plenty of us have got away from men like this xxx

springytat Tue 18-Jun-13 15:16:13

oh, and find your nearest Freedom Programme -- click the Search button on the top middle row to find a group near you.

WA will point you to the Freedom Programme, anyway, as part of supporting you to work your way out of the relationship. It really helps to meet other women in a similar position. Part of the power of domestic abuse is the shame, embarrassment and isolation - meeting other people in the same position strikes a serious blow to those.

flippinada Tue 18-Jun-13 15:57:14

Hi mousey I agree with everyone else; you are being abused. He's doing this deliberately so you don't know which way is up.

I mean the holiday thing - booking it then cancelling it the next day - a normal person wouldn't behave like that. You mentioned earlier in the thread that he's done this before.

The reason why all this is escalating now is because he senses you're getting stronger.

flippinada Tue 18-Jun-13 15:59:47

I also think it would be a great idea to call WA today. Please do it, you will be so glad you did.

BerylStreep Tue 18-Jun-13 16:18:35

You must be utterly exhausted. I just couldn't cope with that level of drama in my life. WA will take you seriously, you don't need to have a black eye.

So what if he loses money on the holiday - his loss.

I'm going to PM you if that's ok.

BerylStreep Tue 18-Jun-13 16:34:10

Mousey, it would be very worthwhile speaking to your local police Domestic Violence officer for advice (and there doesn't need to have been actual violence for them to help you - his behaviour is clear cut harassment - you ended it, he wouldn't take no for an answer).

If you end it again, they can make sure that he is not allowed to pull a stunt like the shouting through the letterbox again. He would be warned at the very least for harassment, and potentially arrested and charged if he tries it again. (and trust me, I am sure that your neighbours would much prefer the police turn up and deal with it rather than having to listen to some twat shouting through the letterbox).

Very often the police DV units have Women's Aid workers co-located with them. Someone I know well got her locks changed for free by the local Crime Prevention officer because she was being harassed by her ex.

I am starting to think he's EA but not in an obvious way. He doesn't shout, name call, anything like that. Trust me, it is glaringly obvious how abusive he is - read Springy's post above - she spells it out very well.

Viking1 Tue 18-Jun-13 16:51:19

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mouseyinmyhousey Tue 18-Jun-13 16:55:06

Yes it is fine to PM. And yes I am completely exhausted, I'm an exhausted, insecure wreck.

Yes he has done something like this before regarding holidays. It was about 2 and a half years ago and he'd said he'd like to take me away for my birthday. Was going to book something as a surprise, just a couple of nights somewhere in the UK. Anyway one day he just finished with me out of the blue, even back then it wasn't the first time he'd finished with me, so I was sick of it, told him where to go. Then as usual he started begging me back. Turned out the reason he'd dumped me was because he'd arranged to go away with his mum and dad on holiday so wasn't going to be coming away with me for my birthday after all. Worst of it all was he was flying on my actual birthday.

Anyway his big idea was that I could come with them, I agreed so we sorted everything out, I booked the time off work, got some new clothes. About a week before we had a tiff over me buying my dc a certain item of clothing that he didn't think I should. He told me I couldn't come on holiday finished with me, told his parents it was because I didn't have the money which wasn't true.

This holiday he suggested, he came over one day full of the joys of spring, put dc on his lap and said we should go on holiday. It was the same day he said we'd go out for a meal at the weekend.

I feel as though I can't believe a single word he says. I don't even know if he goes to the shops if he is coming back. I think since he came over that morning there have been about 5 or six things he's said we'd do or he'd do that he didn't. He's still lying about all sorts.

I'm questioning myself again about everything, because he's telling me things are my fault. I know it's having a horrible effect on dc because dc is starting to not want him to go to work.

Thinking about it he is doing more and more horrible things to dc. He said dc was being a big baby at swimming, the other night dc got up in the night with a bad tummy and asked him for some help to wipe his bum. The reason is dc had a bad tummy a while ago and ended up getting in a real mess so it was sensible to ask for help. He thought I was asleep and told dc to do it himself. I said no because dc will end up in a mess and poo everywhere and he just said 'well he's got boxers on'. He also does this thing where he'll say to dc 'who's your favourite', and if dc doesn't say him he'll say 'oh don't you love me' and pretend he's going to go, dc has actually ended up crying and he just hugs dc and says he was only joking. I'm starting to think this is really horrendous behaviour but he's diguised it as joking around or at worst being a bit thick and I've been so stupid I haven't stopped this.

I did mean what I said when I ended it, but since he's been back things have just been even worse.

I am listening regarding women's aid. I just need to find some courage to take the step in involving rl help. I obviously do need some help.

BerylStreep Tue 18-Jun-13 17:10:50

I honestly don't think he is ever going to change. In fact, he seems to be getting worse (or perhaps you are now recognising it for what it is?).

He sounds like he is really horrible to your child. He sounds uncaring, but completely willing to mess with your child's head. He has done exactly the same thing with you.

He sounds seriously fucked up, but it shouldn't be your problem. Have you anyone who could go along with you to WA / police to support you? They wouldn't need to go in with you, but wait outside and bring you for a coffee afterwards?

ChasedByBees Tue 18-Jun-13 17:42:46

Oh mousey, he is going to completely fuck up your DC. He is abusive - to you but just as much if not more so to your DC. Get him out now.

If my neighbours partner was shouting through the letterbox and obviously being harassing (particularly emotionally abusing a child which he was) I'd give a small cheer when the police arrived and have huge respect for her.

So what if things are awkward at work? No-one ever died from awkward. Also, I know you've not told us the work situation but your views on what people will think are skewed so it might not be as bad as you think.

So what if he blames you for wasting money on his holiday? It's his money and he's the one playing games about cancelling it. It's nothing to do with you once you've ended it so you won't even have to hear about the money. Don't speak to him, don't in any way engage. Just get him out.

ChasedByBees Tue 18-Jun-13 17:47:54

I wonder if you could explain his tricks to your DC in a child friendly way?

So perhaps, "it's not very nice for a grown up to make a child feel guilty. Asking about who he loves the most is very silly isn't it?"

Then when he shouts through the letterbox, you could say, "he's trying to make us feel guilty so we'll open the door, isn't he silly?"

I only have a toddler so I don't know how wise this would be - perhaps others could give opinions but I think it would be good to train your DC to see through his tricks.

Remember - if he loved you, he'd respect your feelings and wishes - even if that meant things ending. He's treating you and your DC like playthings or possessions.

BicBiro Tue 18-Jun-13 18:16:17

Hi Mousey

Please find the strength to ditch him again. No man is worth staying for just for a holiday or money or household stuff. You know that deep down. You can do it, you really can. The relationship sounds horrendous now, he sounds angry and like he's trying to hurt you and your DC in horrible passive undermining ways.

You deserve better, you really do. We are all here, supporting you.

What RL support do you have that you can rely on? Any male friends or friends partners/husbands you can call on to be there when he's there, to back you up/tell him to fuck off.

I'm 5 months in something similar, although my ex wasnt as bad as this for persistance. He was still a carrott-dangler though. Yes, its been hard trying to let go and move on, and there have been times when I have felt lonely and like it's all my fault and like I desperately want him back. But the biggest thing which has stopped me is I dont have the anxiety any more, its gone. I have peace in me. No more niggling gut, no more justifying, no more trying to work him out. It takes time to get there, but you WILL GET THERE.

I never thought I'd be able to do it and stick to it either.

flippinada Tue 18-Jun-13 18:59:26

Oh Mousey I'm not surprised you're exhausted what with his nasty mind games. Anyone would feel worn out with the constant emotional drama.

If you feel you need a push to call WA just think about what he's doing to your DC. It's messing with your head and you're an adult. Just think what it's doing to them. Anyone who would do that to a young child really is a nasty, nasty piece of work.

flippinada Tue 18-Jun-13 19:00:35

And by the way there is no need to apologise for coming back. Sending you some flowers.

flippinada Tue 18-Jun-13 19:02:09

"If my neighbours partner was shouting through the letterbox and obviously being harassing (particularly emotionally abusing a child which he was) I'd give a small cheer when the police arrived and have huge respect for her"

Me too. And I'd whoop and cheer when the police took him away too. No kidding!

flippinada Tue 18-Jun-13 19:04:41

Sorry for multiple posts but another thing has popped into my head. If you are close to an MNer (there's a good chance) then they could give you some support if you don't have anyone else close by you can rely on. Just give an idea of general area maybe?

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 07-Aug-13 00:48:44

Can I come back to this thread? I don't know if support has ran out.

But I'm afraid that I'm getting depressed. My whole self worth seems to be based on his approval and my existence on his every whim.

I seem so guliable that I'll believe anything I want to hear.

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 07-Aug-13 00:55:58

I almost feel that I don't. even know who I am anymore, what I think or what I want, but that I'm validated by being some twats girlfriend who might eventually miraculously change and then it will all be ok.

I'm on the brink of the next big drama

wordyBird Wed 07-Aug-13 01:18:51

This is mumsnet mousey.... support won't run out. brew
He has messed with your head, but it's reversible. Don't worry.
Did you manage to find any RL support?

Tortoiseonthehalfshell Wed 07-Aug-13 01:29:53

Of course you can come back, love.

I'm assuming you haven't rung WA yet. I really wish you would. That doesn't have to mean 'involving real life help' - it can just be for a chat, to sort your head out a bit.

Walkacrossthesand Wed 07-Aug-13 01:42:24

Are you able to look back at the last few months, since you first posted, and identify what it is that's stopping you calling a halt to all his drama? Why is his approval so important to you? I ask this supportively not critically btw - because understanding why we do what we do, is the first step towards making changes.

Ficklefrancis Wed 07-Aug-13 07:34:27

I cannot believe you have put up with this for so long! 4 years and he's not even moved in or made any sort of commitment! He's even sneaked into your house while you haven't been there to retrieve his stuff! How much more are you willing to take from him?
It's obvious to us he doesn't want to be with you and he's even told you so himself and via his dreadful actions.
And also consider it isn't just you who is getting hurt by your on/off bf's actions, your ds is also getting caught up in it too.
So do yourself (and your ds) a favour and block him out your life completely!
Go out with your mates and enjoy being single properly on your terms and you never know who may be out there for you smile

myroomisatip Wed 07-Aug-13 07:52:18

Oh you poor thing! I know what you are going through, this guy is so manipulative sad

Please contact Womens Aid. You need all the help you can get with this situation.

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 07-Aug-13 08:33:58

Sorry for the strange rambling I was just really upset and needed an outlet.

Nothing has happened for the past month in fact he's been acting really nice and I've just been coasting, but I've been starting to feel quite depressed, quite anxious and stuff.

I said I wanted some kind of solid commitment by the end of the month if we were to continue in a relationship. I'm not even sure what I thought this was going to achieve, perhaps my attempts to try to justify things to myself.

Surprise, surprise though he's told me I'm a bully who wants everything to be. on my terms ans pushing him into things won't help. He's seen the light apparently.

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 07-Aug-13 08:42:17

I look back at my first post that was two months ago but it feels like a lifetime ago because so much has happened.

I know I've had the best advice possible here and in rl but I don't even trust myself, I feel like an alcoholic who's fallen off the wagon. In fact I've woken up today feeling like I've got a hangover and I don't even drink.

I feel as though I want to run away with ds for 6 months to almost recover from all this. But instead I've got to carry on as normal for ds and faking a smile to the outside world.

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 07-Aug-13 08:51:45

Walkacrossthesand, I've probably said this before, but I think the reasons are, I love his nice side, or at least I think I do. I think I want to feel like I'm part of a 'proper' family. Perhaps I've started to think I'm not lovable because I see all these people, happily settled down and um not and living in such dysfunction. Things working out would somehow make me normal, and like everyone else.

But I so realise normal would be stopping all this and living a calm and stable life with ds, but the longer it goes on the more swamped I feel. And in sure I could manage to clear my head over the next few days/weeks but then what stunt is he going to pull.

CastroIsDead Wed 07-Aug-13 08:51:59

i think you need to go no contact.
he isn't going to change he just pretends he might to keep you controlled.
even if he gives you solid commitment and moves in, he won't stop the headfuck and will just move out again or threaten to, you will be worrying when he's going all the time.
my ex was just like this, nearly 4 years on and off any sign of me wanting a bit of stability for my ds and off he'd go. even the eating at his mums they could actually be the same person.
i realise now that i wasted those 4years. im not there yet and i also did loads of second guessing myself after being dismissed and put down for so long, but im happier now.

CastroIsDead Wed 07-Aug-13 09:02:03

you and ds are a family, a small family but you can be a happy one and that's what matters. one day you can make it bigger with people who deserve to by a part of your life.
do you want more kids mousy? that's my biggest regret from wasting so long with my ex. in the time i was letting him treat me like an idiot i could have met someone nice normal and able to commit and be thinking about a brother or sister for my ds now.
he will probably always be an only now.
you know this guy will never give you what you want

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 07-Aug-13 09:12:21

Yes I think I would have liked more children in the right circumstances but I probably never will now.

delilahlilah Wed 07-Aug-13 09:53:55

Oh Mousey, I was a lurker on the thread back in May. Please finish with him. He is making you miserable. Much better to wait and meet a decent man and maybe have another child further down the line. A child with this one would not be a good thing, he is playing mind games and wearing you down as it is.
Don't engage any more, go no contact. I am worried you believe things he says and are blaming yourself? You are NOT a bully, you are standing up for yourself and he doesn't like it. He is trying to gain more control of you.
You will have a much better life for you and Dc without him.

RaspberrySchnapps Wed 07-Aug-13 09:56:45

Mousey, please end things with this man. It will never change, before you know it you will be drawing a pension and still stuck in the same yo-yo pattern, but wondering where your life went. Meantime your lovely DC will have walked away, sick at heart that you won't make it stop. Take it from one who knows.

It will be difficult, men like this are habit forming, they somehow manage to be believable while at the same time making you feel paranoid and defective, but you can end it. Tell him "its over", just two words and thats all you need to do and the rest of your life is ahead. Never feel bullied into having a relationship with anyone. Pack his stuff and drop it off at his mums, change your locks, your phone number, your FB, your usual routine. Even move to the other end of the country, whatever you need to do to break the cycle. Do it for your child, it is your duty to protect them from harm, and this will harm them, even if you can't see it yet.

mcmooncup Wed 07-Aug-13 10:08:32

"I feel like an alcoholic who's fallen off the wagon"

You ARE. You are a co-dependent and relationship drama addict.

Loads of us have been there and you can recover. There are steps you can take........first thing is educating yourself about why you cannot validate yourself....what was your childhood like? Were you listened to or were you supposed to "be no bother" and suck things up and just "get on with it"?

Read books, e.g. Women Who Love Too Much. Anything about co-dependency.......get educated. You know you need to leave, it's obvious.....but that bit of doing it will not be done until you understand why you are addicted to this drama and your self esteem is so low.

Alternatively, just LEAVE HIM. Just go into robot mode, go no contact and educate yourself while you are on your own. You really have 2 choices.....a lifetime of SHIT or a few months of a less smelly shit.

mcmooncup Wed 07-Aug-13 10:12:40

Read every word of this

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 07-Aug-13 10:18:28

Thanks mcmooncup, I think I KNOW why I'm like this in a lot of ways. I've started to understand what this is all about. It's not that I enjoy the dramas, I honestly don't, it's more that I get swept up and pray the next drama won't come this time.

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 07-Aug-13 10:23:50

Perhaps I can change my.phone number as a start? I make excuses not to, like ds friends parents have my number, such and such need my number for that appointment next week.

mcmooncup Wed 07-Aug-13 10:34:11

Great start.
Mission for the day.

Mouseyinmyhousey Wed 07-Aug-13 12:33:21

I KNOW I've created a fantasy relationship with someone who's never going to get real with me, I've got the Baggae Reclaim book. I KNOW the script.

I've ended things, done no contact, ignored for weeks. Somehow there's just that bit of inner strength which I haven't got.

Even now subconciously there's a part of me thinking, he doesn't mean it, he'll ring me later or next week like always to say he didn't mean it, he was having a bad day/week and he's sorry. And I want to say 'no, fuck off, that's not how you treat people you love', but somehow I'll give in to his determination. But of course everytime he does this, it resets everything back to the beginning doesn't it? So he still doesn't end up having to do anything.

Somehow, despite me putting up with utter shite for over 4 years, I'm a bully and putting 'pressure' on him for simply laying my cards on the table.

I honestly don't even know what I think about anything anymore. I don't even know if deep down I'd even want the commitment if it came, I can never trust or believe what he says, I'd always be waiting for him to cheat or lie or dump me again.

I'm keeping this thread going in part as an outlet and just to hear what I need to hear again, but also because it's evidence, in black and white of the circles he's got me spinning myself in.

This is the third time in the matter of 2 months, it's as though I'm waiting for some magical revelation or answer to end it.

piratecat Wed 07-Aug-13 12:38:39

if you don't make a huge change and stick to it, your life will be like this forever.

that's a long time. xxx