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"when good people have affairs"

(112 Posts)
confusionoftheillusion Mon 06-May-13 08:13:32

I'd like to read this book To try and understand my recent behaviour but as DH and I are living together I can't just go and buy the book. I've tried to download via iBooks (it says they don't have it) and kindle (again the search won't find it).

Does anyone know how I can download it?


AuntieStella Mon 06-May-13 08:29:53

It probably means there isn't an e-version available.

But having read and posted on your other thread, what you say about your behaviour means this probably isn't the book for you. No matter how desperate you are to hold on to the shred of an illusion that the affair (which you have been posting about for at least 3 months) is somehow OK, it isn't. When you first posted, you received a huge amount of advice. You do not appear to be following any of it, as the affair has escalated in that time.

Are you going to end the affair? It's a simple yes/no issue?

For reading, you might be better off with How to help your spouse heal after your affair. Especially as your lover's wife now knows a fragment of what is wrong - as she digs and finds out more, is she likely to find out who you are and what you've done? And will she tell your H?

confusionoftheillusion Mon 06-May-13 08:49:51

Thanks for your message.

I was so caught up in this man when I met him and so head over heels about him I didnt really think about where it would end. In the beginning I felt incredibly guilty about my H and his W but in time that lessened as I fell deeper in love and became more convinced that we were both in the wrong marriages. I got a lot of advice and didn't take much of it - even though I knew it made sense it went against what my heart wanted so I chose to just carry on seeing OM.

I now see totally that I cannot carry on like this. It seems more black and white than ever and OM and I are not in contact. I've been back through the threads and written down the advice and am going to take it and see where it gets me.

I have talked to my counsellor about why I allowed the affair to start even though I knew it was wrong and I want to read this book to try and learn more about why. And hopefully those answers can help me in the future.

As for OM and his W.... She doesn't know about the affair. So I don't think I have to worry on that front that she will tell my H.

MadAboutHotChoc Mon 06-May-13 08:57:14

Second the recommendation for the above book - i would also get Shirley Glass's Not Just Friends.

AuntieStella Mon 06-May-13 08:59:39

If you really think that a wife, suddenly told her H wants out of the marriage, isn't going to be looking for cause? She is not a passive recipient of what her H dishes out, and you need to expect that she will find out pretty speedily there's an affair. Are you sure she cannot discover it's you?

You have been told on MN since January that you need to make a decision.

Are you going to?

Or is your choice to avoid taking responsibility for your own direction in life?

yousankmybattleship Mon 06-May-13 09:00:37

Never heard of this book, but good people don't have affairs. Good people have the balls to end one relationship before starting another.

JaceyBee Mon 06-May-13 09:52:39

What an unhelpful, judgemental comment.

Of course good people have affairs People are more than their behaviours and love is complex. Must be nice to be so perfect that you've never made a mistake.

Shag around behind your partners back and by no definition in the universe can you delude yourself that you are a "good" person.

amessagetoyouYoni Mon 06-May-13 10:13:23

I cant believe the simplistic, warped replies this sort of post gets. What is the point?

Of course good people have affairs. Seeing as almost half of all marriages end in divorce - and I would bet my savings a huge amount of those marriages involve some form of adultery - it is ludicrous to demonise people who 'cheat' as some how 'evil'.

You need to take full responsibility for your behaviour, but seeing yourself as a 'bad person' is as pathetic as shrugging the 'bad' behaviour off. Life isnt black and white. Understanding why you did what you did and owning the hurt you have - or may have come close to - causing is key here. Good and bad doesnt come in to it.

Yeah yeah yeah, more affair apologist crap.
Treat your partner like shit on your shoe and you are a good person? Give me a fucking break.

kenickielovesrizzo Mon 06-May-13 10:24:09

hi confusion,

You cannot download the ebook - it's only available in the US. Could you get the hard copy delivered to work or something?

Good luck getting back on the right path - it is so difficult but sounds like you are already taking steps in the right direction by not contacting OM.

You ARE a good person you have just made some BAD choices. As does everyone.

snotfunny Mon 06-May-13 10:45:50

We all have to live with our mistakes and we all have to find ways of coping with the things we do that we're not proud of. This is human nature. We can't move on with our lives without forgiving ourselves or providing ourselves with some justification for doing the wrong thing now and then.

In this case, the OP seems to be dealing head on with her mistake. She is not burying her head and forgetting all about it, or making excuses for what she did - she genuinely seems to be saying 'I did something very wrong. I don't want to do that again, but I don't understand why I did it, so before I can move on, I need to take a long hard look at myself and
make sure it doesn't happen again.'

I don't think berating her further is helpful. What do want her to do? Beat herself up for the rest of her life? It's over. She's trying to move on. What is the use in labelling herself as a 'bad' person. She isn't - and it's not a helpful label anyway!

Has she told her OH?

confusionoftheillusion Mon 06-May-13 11:23:54

No. I haven't told my husband. I'm not going to either. Thought long and hard about that a lot but I'm not going to. I know this is controversial.

I am fully aware that I've done an awful thing to people who don't deserve it. I am also finding out there are a lot of reasons I did it and I'm trying to look at them more. Some are about me, some are about my marriage and some are about OM.

I have come to expect a flaming for having an affair but although I did a shitty thing I'm not a totally shitty person. Giving myself a really hard time forever isn't going to help anyone so I'm choosing to focus on figuring out more about why it happened rather than crucifying myself cause it happened.

confusionoftheillusion Mon 06-May-13 11:25:46

I cant have the book sent to work as someone else opens all my post! And "private" things are always met with a "ooooohhh" from the team around me.

So you are still lying by omission then? How would he feel knowing you are still obsessing over another man?
Be honest with yourself.

AnyFucker Mon 06-May-13 11:27:15

Are you still in contact with OM ? In any way at all ?

confusionoftheillusion Mon 06-May-13 11:27:53


theoriginalandbestrookie Mon 06-May-13 11:30:28

It's ok OP I can tell you what's in the book. It will be very short and say one sentence. Good people don't have affairs, end of story. Tah dah, look I have saved you the problem.

Look seriously you have had an affair and you want to move on from that. That falls under the heading of good news. Wanting to get your hands on a book that somehow shows that it wasn't your fault that you slept with another man, not such good news.

You already have a counsellor so surely the reasons you can explore the reasons why you had the affair much more successfully with him/her than you could through reading a book.

Lizzabadger Mon 06-May-13 11:32:35

You can have Amazon books sent to pick-up points, I believe.

But that's not why you posted, really.

Lizzabadger Mon 06-May-13 11:35:44

I am not sure what "good" means but I believe that in general only people with a certain sense of entitlement have affairs.

The one exception may be those people whose spouses are so abusive they have ground down their self-esteem to the point that they feel unable to leave the relationship without an exit affair.

confusionoftheillusion Mon 06-May-13 11:36:44

It's not about saying it wasn't my fault at all! It's about finding out what about me allowed it to happen! I take responsibility for it happening. I couldn't help the way I felt but I could have said "no" at any point.

Anyway - this is turning into another attack the woman who had the affair thread. I've attacked myself enough and now need to find a way to do something more positive about it.

Then tell your husband.

Xales Mon 06-May-13 11:38:21

Did you expect it to be any different from your other thread where you slated his wife for what a proven liar said she was doing?

Why did you start another one?

badinage Mon 06-May-13 11:43:42

This is confusing as you've got two threads atm.

Read the other one and I've seen others from you.

Your latest obsession seems to be that you're a 'good' person who did a bad thing.

But as your other thread shows, that's not true is it?

Someone who has an affair with a MM and cheats on her own husband doesn't suddenly turn overnight into the sort of person who can do that. There have to be layers of selfishness and attitudes to allow that to happen.

The other thread's a long one, but on it we can see that you were economical with the truth despite some posters spending ages trying to help you and the latest posts really do expose your true character as perhaps being a 'bad person doing yet more bad things'.

Your OM has now told his wife he's leaving, but is omitting to tell his wife about his affair with you.

Now he's said he's leaving his wife, you've run for the hills and started sniping about his wife!

And say that you intend to continue lying through your teeth to your husband.

Read a book that will reassure you that you're a good person who did a bad thing, but you're fooling no-one here......

She is looking for affirmation that shagging someone else's DH behind her DH back is somehow unique and in her case means she is a good person, despite not being honest with her DH or herself.
Her poor DH gets to tie himself in knots wondering what is wrong, while OP hopes to ease her guilt by looking for people to affirm her behaviour. When she reads a post saying, oh babe, don't tell him, you are a good person really, she gets affirmation. When she hears the truth, she flounces.

AnyFucker Mon 06-May-13 11:45:33

Is the the "lumbered with OM" poster ??

AnyFucker Mon 06-May-13 11:46:06


badinage Mon 06-May-13 11:51:11

No it's the other one with 'good' in the title - this time trying to present the OM as a 'good bloke'. The latest posts from the OP slagged off this man's wife for getting upset that her husband's leaving her and saying there's no-one else involved hmm. OP only backed off from slating the poor woman when other posters reacted angrily.

It's a pretty pass when a load of internet strangers have to hand a woman her moral compass.

AnyFucker Mon 06-May-13 11:52:44

Ah, missed that one.

Just as well.

CajaDeLaMemoria Mon 06-May-13 11:54:54

OP, try 'not just friends'. It'll help you see the boundaries you crossed, and how you let this get as far as you did.

Of course, you'll need to read it with an open mind, and let go of the idea that this just happened to you and it doesn't reflect on your character. It's up to you if you think it makes you 'bad', but you need to take responsibility for it.

'helping your spouse heal after an affair' is excellent too, but as you have no intention of telling your H, it may not help you.

I only hope that if you don't tell him, you put absolutely everything into never speaking to the OM again, and fixing this. Lying to him to keep on hurting him isn't okay.

Good luck.

killerrobot Mon 06-May-13 11:56:43

After a while on these threads the measured, thoughtful few become drowned out by the angry, knee-jerk many.

Of course good people have affairs. If I'd been cheated on I am sure that I would be permanently unwilling to concede that.

If I had been in the dark about my husband's affair I would insist that any cheat I knew told their spouse because I am sure there is nothing more humiliating than thinking you are the one who doesn't know.

For some of those who advise you that you must tell your husband, the motivation is to see you get your just desserts, so you don't 'get away with it'. It is not necessarily based on any principle.

You've done something stupid; you will probably do it again unless you process why you had the affair and recommit yourself in your mind to your husband. You've humiliated him whether he knows it or not.

This doesn't necessarily make you a bad person, that's a meaningless expression anyway. You did do some bad deeds.

I supsect that coming on here won't do your self esteem much good. I am not sure why you are here. If you want advice as to how you can get a book delivered without anyone finding out you can get that anywhere.

I think you are either here because you are a bit immature and you like rubbing women whose partners have cheated's noses in it (because this is your displaced humiliation of OM's wife) or because you want to masochistically attract some abuse.

AuntySib Mon 06-May-13 11:57:06

I know nothing about you, and have not read your other threads. However, people who are completely happily married do not normally have affairs, so can only assume OM filled a perceived need at a time when OH did not.
I don't think you need to read particular books to understand why you did this, but you could think about it, and work through it with your therapist.
I'm not entirely sure why some other posters say that you won't be accepting full responsibility unless/until you tell your OH about the affair. If you do tell him, think very carefully about a) possible fallout and b) how to do it without hurting him any more than absolutely necessary. If you would only be telling him to salve your own conscience, or as some sort of self-punishment, then that wouldn't really be a good enough reason , IMO.
Sometimes the less selfish option is to keep quiet, particularly if you have children.
If you think he is lilkely to find out from any other source, then it would be better to tell him, at a time and in a way chosen by you rather than having it all explode uncontrollably, for the children's sake.

So her DH does not deserve the choice of knowing the facts and making an informed choice as to whether or not he remains in the relationship?
Nothing quashes the illicit in affair faster than having to face the consequences.
Telling her DH is not about looking for absolution, it is respecting your OH enough to give him a choice in whether to work through your issues together, or not.
OP chooses not to because she does not want to face up to what she has done. She is looking for ways to square her conscience. Me. Me. Me.

confusionoftheillusion Mon 06-May-13 12:05:27

I genuinely posted to find out about how to get the book. You're right though - I should have just had an anonymous post about "a book".

I will try and download the other recommendations here. Thank you.

Why not try being honest with your husband?

It IS interesting that both your threads start by asking about 'good' people - the first, is the OM good, and now one about yourself.

You seem to have fixes ideas about 'good/bad people' - religious upbringing maybe? And I can hear how upsetting you find it to be lumped with the 'bad people' because you genuinely feel you and the OM are not.

I do think in a few years time when you look back at this period in your life you will see that you have been behaving with cowardice. you will wonder why you why you went to such lengths to justify an affair with a mm, yet would not leave your own partner free to find someone who loves him.

noddyholder Mon 06-May-13 12:09:17

I don't think good people have affairs What a terrible excusing title! Good people leave one partner before engaging with another

CajaDeLaMemoria Mon 06-May-13 12:11:44

Good luck, Confusion.

Hopefully, in the coming weeks, you can start to rebuild everything.

(I'm leaving comments about DH and deserving to know out, as, like KillerRobot said, it's your decision. He might want to know, he might not. You've decided not to tell him anyway, so work on fixing it, instead.)

Every thread on here when a woman posts re DH affair all agree that in order to successfully rebuild a relationship, full disclosure from the guilty partner is paramount.
Why is that different in THIS case?

Ilikethebreeze Mon 06-May-13 12:15:50

You have done bad behaviour
Your OM has done bad behaviour.

No idea about the book.

You know deep down that your behaviour was bad.
No matter what anyone else tells you.
You know.

Hope your behaviour improves from now on.

AuntieStella Mon 06-May-13 13:22:04

Have you actually finished unambiguously with OM, then?

For the affair was still ongoing on the other thread.

Have you actually made a choice and what is it?

As of 4 May she was still seeing OM

expatinscotland Mon 06-May-13 13:35:35

What Katie said. Such double standards on here.

Sunshineandflowers Mon 06-May-13 13:52:17

Can't you go into Waterstones and order it? Or order it online to pick up from there?

It's a good book but you might not like what it tells you. Despite it's title it's very hard hitting and gets you to examine everything about yourself.

She needs that book about as much as she needs the enablers on here.

Pomegranatenoir Mon 06-May-13 14:07:30

She needs to tell her husband the truth and stop being such a coward. He deserves to know what type of person he married so he is able to make informed decisions. No sympathy whatsoever with OP and she should have known better than posting such self sympathising drivel.

And yes I am talking from experience. Bitter experience of being the loving wife that was kept in the dark about my cheating husbands lies. And yes my marriage was a happy one till the day I found out about the cheating. My children's lives have never been the same and they have suffered massively so cheating ex can have his thrills. Life moves on and things evolve but nothing can ever describe the pain of having your life and future ripped to shreds.

confusionoftheillusion Mon 06-May-13 17:30:00

sunshine - the problem is I can't have a hard copy of the book.

I expect it to be hard hitting - I'm ok with that as hard hitting is probably what I need but which will also get me to a better place for the future.

I told OM yesterday I couldn't see him anymore. Hence today starting to do all the things I think I need to do. One of which is examining what in me made me do something I know to be totally wrong.

The point about being "good" that someone made i guess comes from the fact I always thought cheats to be horrible people with no morals who were totally selfish. I know I'm not that person so doing something so wrong has totally challenged my beliefs about who I am and who OM is. That is why I am trying to work on myself to figure out why so I can make sure it never happens again.

expatinscotland Mon 06-May-13 17:32:14

But you're still not telling your spouse. Nice.

"I know I am not that person"

confusionoftheillusion Mon 06-May-13 17:39:43

"Katie" - do you think one huge awful mistake defines a person? Genuinely interested?

Chubfuddler Mon 06-May-13 17:40:13

Cognitive dissonance

Look it up op.

You're very good at it but you don't seem to know what it is. It's the reason you could cheat on your husband and convince yourself it's ok not to tell the truth.

I think if you were truly honest with yourself you would understand that all the books and validation and counselling in the world will not erase what you are doing to your husband, your children, the OM's wife and their children. Right now.
Someone who is truly repentant would take steps to make sure this never happens again. The only way you can save your family and regain your self-respect ( which is what you are really looking to do) is to do the decent thing and let your DH in on your sordid secrets.
The fact that you are unwilling to do that speaks volumes.
I think that you can probably learn from this and become a better person. You need to do the work, though. And I'm not at all convinced that you want to do that.
The ongoing deceit is what makes you a bad person. And all the books in the world are not going to lance that boil. Only you can do the right thing.

AuntieStella Mon 06-May-13 17:48:49

Your affair isn't "one mistake" - it's thousands of them. One after another, deliberately and repeatedly meeting, contacting, thinking about the OM at the expense of putting thought, emotion and energy into your family.

Ilikethebreeze Mon 06-May-13 17:49:05

Do not have any experience of affairs.
But would imagine it would take lots and lots and lots of little mistakes.

I feel like I am talking to a 6 year old.

Ilikethebreeze Mon 06-May-13 17:52:34
AuntieStella Mon 06-May-13 17:55:59

For ease of reference, OP has a concurrent thread and it is here.

pickledginger Mon 06-May-13 17:58:01

The title sounds like an exercise in abdicating responsibility for one's actions. A one night stand might be a mistake. An ongoing affair with a married man when you're also married is a big shitheap of conscious choices.

Oh and a mistake is a one off.
You've been cheating for 4 months.

And while we are doing Q&A. Please convince me why it is OK in your world not to tell your DH?

BlackBlackBlack Mon 06-May-13 18:00:34

confusion I can speak from some experience, having had an affair last year. I told my DH about it. Everything exploded, really painfully for everybody concerned - my DH and OM's DW most of all. It is now over between OM and I, and we have not been in contact for 8 months. For the first while, NC was excruciatingly difficult, but it has gradually receded and I can see now that it is the only way forward.

If you want to try and make your marriage work - and I'm not saying you have to - then I strongly, strongly urge you to tell your DH about all of this. I couldn't have begun to rebuild my marriage without being honest with my DH. I am still in counselling to try and figure out all the things which led me to do what I did in such a destructive manner, and DH and I also went for some relationship counselling together. Being honest with my DH turned out to be really important for me too, because it meant that I had to stop compartmentalising everything about the affair into my own little cocoon, and more importantly I stopped viewing him as a sort of pathetic cuckolded figure - this was crucial to begin viewing him again with the respect that he deserved.

You can read all the books you like to try and figure out thing for yourself, but honesty with your DH is the only way, in my experience, that you can hope to salvage anything and build the sort of meaningful relationship that can last.

Hang in there. It's tough and difficult, but you can do it.

Sunshineandflowers Mon 06-May-13 18:01:58

Of course you can have a hard copy of that book! Hide it in your bag. Or your car. Or your drawer at work. Ask a friend to look after it for you. Buy it, read it, take it to the charity shop after.

If you want to read it and sort this out you will find a way.

Thank you Black. That is exactly what I mean.

happyAvocado Mon 06-May-13 18:14:09

I am copying from that other thread:

"I think no-one would have predicted the impact it(ex's cheating) had on our kids, his siblings, me most of all

ex's siblings hate him for what he's done to me and his kids, however they can't say - oh well, we won't see him ever again

so I was avoiding christmases with them - my kids love going there as I have no family in UK
that is how they grew up - having christmases with their cousins, aunties, uncles, grandparents, so ex is there too, and I felt sick having to be with him in the same room on happy occasions like that
I love his family, they are on my side and now just over 4 years since I found out he was seeing someone else I can just about to be in the same room as him

he also decided to tell the kids - he had an affair, so my kids are torn between loving him and hating the same time

if you want to be hated by his family - carry on, but you will never be part of his life the way you would like to be

I also ended up with a bad depression for quite few months after we split. I would not wish that on anyone"

BlackBlackBlack Mon 06-May-13 18:15:46

Also, I just wanted to say that I think the title of that book is ridiculous.
EVERYONE has it in them to do good and bad, and I don't think a mistake, or a series of mistakes, or a bad decision defines a person's character once and for all. Describing people as 'good' or 'bad' is really unhelpful, in my opinion. I think that holds true for the OP (who seems to be clinging to the idea that she and the OM are good people), and for all the posters who are writing the OP off as a bad person. The spectrum of human behaviour is much more complicated than good people and bad people.

happyAvocado Mon 06-May-13 18:17:44

I guess OP would like to perhaps see this equation confirmation....



Springdiva Mon 06-May-13 18:25:15

I see the title as a bit tongue in cheek ie 'good' people means, good according to what most people think of as good and not that they are some sort of perfect being, just that they are not the philandering cheater who might first come to mind, they are ordinary.

happyAvocado Mon 06-May-13 18:26:33

yeah, perhaps good means average, normal?

Springdiva Mon 06-May-13 18:49:18

Well 1 in 3 marriages end in divorce and many no doubt due to affairs so, maybe not average, but a big proportion.

AnyFucker Mon 06-May-13 18:59:57

Op only "finished" it with OM yesterday?


BlackBlackBlack Mon 06-May-13 19:02:57

AF everyone has to start somewhere!

Selba Mon 06-May-13 19:07:47

I think you are quite right not to tell your husband.
Hope things work out .

happyAvocado Mon 06-May-13 19:10:45

I don't know what OP should or should not do as in : telling her DH

she certainly needs more than just to read a book or two, there may be a lot of other issues and I would suggest counseling

AnyFucker Mon 06-May-13 18:59:57

Op only "finished" it with OM yesterday?


Yes like she did in January, March and god knows how many other times since they started the affair.

Neither OP or Om can make a break of either their marriages or affair until one of them does and BOTH are honest with their partners will this situation be solved because everyone is lying or being lied too.

AnyFucker Mon 06-May-13 19:35:44


This thread is a waste of everyone's time, including the op

BlackBlackBlack Mon 06-May-13 19:36:05


happyAvocado Mon 06-May-13 19:39:35

I guess they want to have messy end of it whilst eating their cake...

IHateSafeStyle Mon 06-May-13 19:43:55

If you don't know the answer, and your counsellor doesn't know, how would this book?

Op the fact is you made a choice, you felt it was worth the risk.

eccentrica Mon 06-May-13 19:45:02

"Giving myself a really hard time forever isn't going to help anyone so I'm choosing to focus on figuring out more about why it happened rather than crucifying myself cause it happened."

But you haven't given yourself a hard time at all. I've read your other thread. Slagging off the woman whose husband you have been fucking, for what she says to her own children at a time of great trauma and shock for her, is disgusting behaviour and shows you have a long long way to go before you're anywhere near accepting responsibility for your own actions.

You did not start this thread because you can't work out how to read a book, FFS. Ever heard of a library? You have managed to conceal an affair - that is, lying about your whereabouts while shagging around behind your husband's back - for months and yet you think it's impossible to conceal reading a book?! Ha ha ha.

All of your behaviour on this website as well in real life just shows a person who's deeply narcissistic, manipulative and dishonest. And for what it's worth, I have been the cheater and not the cheated on, so don't try to make out it's only 'wronged wives' who see through you.

And just for the record OP. I am no wronged wife either.

LemonPeculiarJones Mon 06-May-13 20:01:35

How do we judge ourselves morally? We have to look at our actions, how we treat other people.

From your recent behaviour you cannot think of yourself as 'good'. You've been amoral, self-interested. It's not uncommon. You can change it, though.

You like yourself, you think you're a fun friend, a good laugh, a nice person - you don't want to judge yourself harshly, you want to cling on to your high self-image. So you're desperate for a particular book that gives you the idea that you are 'good'. So desperate for that validation that you start a thread about how to have it secretly sent to you. Another secret.

But you have done something wrong and the book can't reassure you of your inherent goodness. (I'm sure it doesn't attempt to. It's probably deliberately titled to reassure people like you and then serve up some harsh truths. Hopefully.)

You can start to redress the balance by changing your behaviour right now. With honesty.

Some behaviours are so bad that however long a perpetrator behaves decently after conscious change, the balance can never be redressed, I don't think (I'm not thinking about affairs here, but rather abuse and worse).

You want a chance to think of yourself as good? Don't look to who you've been - you don't qualify. Start now.

And stop being so desperate for full, brow-stroking forgiveness for the fact that you've behaved dishonestly.

AnyFucker Mon 06-May-13 20:24:51

For the record, I am not a wronged wife

badinage Mon 06-May-13 20:37:41

On the other thread OP it reads that this affair has been going on since last summer and you've ended it several times before.

What's the difference this time?

Is it because he's ended his marriage and it's suddenly hit you that this isn't a fantasy any more?

Or was this all a bit of a game to see if you could get a bloke to leave his wife for you and now that he has, you're not interested any more?

I can't really understand why you're bailing out on the OM now because you spent most of the other thread saying you'd never been very happy with your husband, hadn't ever really been in love or attracted to him and were putting forward all that as reasons for why you had an affair.

So why have you decided to stay with your husband now?

Has he become your new challenge now that he's saying he's not sure he wants you any more?

I see a pattern of behaviour here and it's not 'good'.

Ilikethebreeze Mon 06-May-13 20:44:15

Even your MN name is telling.
You talk of illusion.

neontetra Mon 06-May-13 20:55:05

My word. An affair is not great, but nor is it murder. If my dh chose to have an affair, even leave me for OW, I hope I would understand that it was because he was not happy, as I have accepted in previous relationships. Reading these threads is like slipping back into the Victorian era. In RL, everyone I know is the product of an affair, or has had one, or their friend has, and they are all able to conceptualise why this might happen. Good luck, op.

LemonPeculiarJones Mon 06-May-13 21:00:44

It's not murder neo, no. But it's not 'good' either, is it? That's what has caused the reactions.

I think the issue here is that the OP seems to be desperate to cling onto the idea that she's a good person who's made a mistake and shouldn't be judged for it.

I think the point is that she should apply judgement, to herself. But seems to be avoiding that.

That's why posters like me have no patience with her. Lots of OWs post here and receive very different responses. If they display self-awareness.

Neo, I think you need new friends....

No one flamed Black. Why was that do you think?

Chubfuddler Mon 06-May-13 21:12:08

In the real world where I live some people have had affairs, and their marriages have either survived or not, but even in the cases where people are happier out of the marriage they cheated on, they accept that they should have sorted out a dignified, respectful exit rather than cheated.

I must know a different calibre of people.

tribpot Mon 06-May-13 21:16:46

In the Victorian era most people had no choice but to stay married. It's not hard to see how affairs were both commonplace and (to some extent) acceptable. But in this day and age people have choices - which include being free to exit one relationship before beginning another.

Of course people make mistakes, they lose their way and do things which they regret and realise are selfish and cowardly. But this poster is tragically self-deluded, as evidenced by the fact she could not download any of the self-help books that are available for the Kindle, she has to have the one that's about how good people sometimes do bad things but it doesn't make them bad.

MadameOvary Mon 06-May-13 21:35:30

I used to be you, OP, forever cheating on my partners because they weren't giving me what I needed. I had a massive sense of entitlement that left no room for the respect the people I was with deserved. Instead I focussed on how deprived I felt. Did I try telling them how I felt? oh hell yeah. I didn't want to cheat. But they didn't listen to me. So instead of leaving I converted this entitlement into deprivation and grimly justified it...
I have changed now though. Through a baptism of fire and a slow, excruciating growth of self-awareness lasting years. I am now incapable of lying, never mind cheating. So my advice to you is, stop fannying about trying to find justifications reasons for your behaviour. You felt entitled to do it, so you did it. End of.

Pomegranatenoir Mon 06-May-13 21:55:06

Neo if its all about happiness then nobody would ever get into a long term relationship. Marriage is about dealing with the good and the bad together. Even more so when there is children involved. Maybe I should just tell my little son that the reason his dad isn't around to tick him into bed anymore is because it wasn't making him happy. In sure he would be fine with that explanation

Fleecyslippers Mon 06-May-13 22:17:47

'I hope I would understand that it was because he was not happy,'

It is SO fucking depressing to hear people trot out this same old trite. Life is not a bowl of cherries, marriage and relationships are tough. It sickens me that we live in a throwaway society where people wreck lives, devastate families and live this shitty, self absorbed delusion that 'they' deserve better.

Remember those marriage vows you made ? 'For better for WORSE. Not just 'until I decide I'm not haaaaaaapy waaaaaaah'

melbie Tue 07-May-13 01:57:05

So people should just stay in a miserable marriage then Pomegranate and Fleecy? No one should get divorced? It is better to show children the example of unhappy parents together?

Yes there will be good times and bad. But no one should stay in a life of misery. They DO deserve better.

badinage Tue 07-May-13 02:52:22

Melbie as you know, lots of people in affairs aren't having them because their marriages are 'miserable'. They are having them because they are selfish enough to want two or more people at the same time.

No-one's advocating anyone staying in a 'miserable' marriage either. What they are saying is that if a marriage is untenable, it's best to leave it first before getting involved with another person.

But what they are also saying is that no relationship is happy all of the time. Hell, no life is happy all of the time. But people who are realistic about life and who don't feel entitled to happiness at others' expense tend to press on through those rough patches in marriages and life in general, without choosing to press the 'destruct' button.

LookingForwardToMarch Tue 07-May-13 03:23:25

I always thought cheats to be horrible people with no morals who were totally selfish

This OP. Trust your initial instinct on this for that IS what cheaters are!

Makes me [grin| that two threads later you are still desperately trying to convince yourself otherwise.

P.S truth always outs in the end...but as a cheater you will refuse to acknowledge this.

Mosman Tue 07-May-13 04:51:33

Well I am the wronged wife and what I can tell you is that unless you get caught or come clean this will happen again and again.
Until you are prepared to examine honestly what caused this state of affairs within yourself and your marriage this purgatory you've plunged yourself and others into is going nowhere.
From my own experience I did let my "h" get away with behaviour because my own wasn't perfect and now we are starring down the barrel of divorce.
I can accept that even as somebody who has the moral high ground, why can't you ?

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Tue 07-May-13 05:09:18

I'm more concerned that OP that you seem to have completely justified your husband strangling you 'because he was on medication.'

Not saying the affair isn't an issue to discuss with a counsellor, (it definitely is!) But the DV should be at the top of my priority list. You seem a deeply unhappy person. A man doesn't have to 'define' you, whether it be a 'D'H or a OM.

I hope you are at the very least, safe.

AuntieStella Tue 07-May-13 06:32:07

OP hasn't said that much (under this user name) about that single incident (last year? After she'd met OM) other than that she is satisfied it was an out of character one-off, and that she feels in no danger since his change of meds and other changes (no longer drinks at all?).

It doesn't change some aspects. If she wants to leave her marriage, then she should leave. But that incident doesn't make cheating acceptable, and as OP has found out the hard way, cheating makes everything more difficult.

It doesn't make her any less responsible for her affair (which is itself a form of emotionally abusive behaviour). Or remove any of the need for her to take action now. He has been penitent about one single mistake: she has chosen a course which means she is making 'mistakes' daily or more frequently.

I doubt OP will want to return to DH. But what she is doing, to both families, over months, is reprehensible. This thread has been running for some months. It's decision time.

Pomegranatenoir Tue 07-May-13 06:51:35

melbie I said that life isn't always happy. Marriages aren't always happy but doesn't mean you should get out. Means you should try harder and remember your wedding vows. anyone having an affair kniws it is wrong but they continue to choose to do it. first text, first meet up, taking underwear off, arranging to meet again - doesnt just happen, they make conscious decisions to do those things. My ex worked away Monday to Friday and then played extrelmely happy families sat and sun. I was also 20 weeks pregnant (woth a planned baby) in and out of hospital with hyperemesis looking after my ds singlehandedly whist he said he couldn't possibly come home from work to help because he was sooooo busy. I defo wasn't happy with him not being around but I believed that he actually was too busy and just got on with everything myself. Never for one moment did I consider leaving or having an affair I just got on with things, genuinely believing he was busy at work and trying to make a better life for us.

He wasn't unhappy, he was weak. He wanted to have his cake and eat it. He never told me about the affair, I found him out. We were the couple who people talked about as being happy because we were. My child had never witnessed an argument or seen me cry till the day I found out about the affair. Now he unfortunately knows what it is to have an unhappy parent despite me trying my very hardest to shelter him away from the sadness.

And for what it's worth there was no misery in our relationship - although I feel it in abundance now dealing with the consequences of what he has done.

Unless you have been in the situation ( and I am aware that every situation is different) then I really don't think you are educated enough emotionally to understand that it isn't a simple case of happy or sad. You are not just dealing with 2 lives, you are dealing with whole families and friends.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Tue 07-May-13 07:31:55

AuntieStella I certainly don't disagree, I didn't mean to come across that I did.

I can't remember if OP has children or not, but violence always worries me. IMHO, once is enough and many, many women are 'satisfied' with the excuse of why they were abused to keep themselves in denial.

OP, (other than the DV) you need to stop putting yourself first. There's a wife and children who are suffering because of your 'love.'

You seem very obsessed with justifying the affair. It's not justifiable. Either accept that or keep obsessing, either way it doesn't deal with the real issues and fallout.

Only one thing. OP, are you choosing not to tell you 'D'H because you don't truly want to deal with what you and O have done, or because you're afraid he'll turn violent?

eccentrica Tue 07-May-13 07:50:42

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HoneyStAngelo Tue 07-May-13 07:53:33

What defines a good person?

Someone who embarks on an emotional and/or sexual relationship with another partner whilst all the while pretending they love the one they are with.

This extra curricular activity is born of selfishness, deceitfulness, arrogance and shows the adulterer as being a deeply flawed person who's own self interests are more important than anyone else's.

People who have affairs try to justify it by saying they are a nice person, a good person and in many aspects of their life they probably are but ultimately it reveals them as being very weak and incapable of true compassion.

If you have been on the receiving end of your partner having an affair you will understand the damage that has been inflicted upon you. To feel sick day in, day out, the awful knowledge of being lied to and behind each smile they made at you was a longing to be with another. The pain of being cheated on is worse than any physical ailment or disease I have suffered with.

As far as I'm concerned, 'good' people don't cheat.

eccentrica Tue 07-May-13 08:04:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HoneyStAngelo Tue 07-May-13 09:43:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kotinka Tue 07-May-13 18:29:41

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Tue 07-May-13 22:28:31


Because then the husband has the choice about whether he wants to be in the relationship with the OP. That choice was taken away when OM entered the picture. It will cause pain, but if (God forbid) my DH had an affair and I never knew I think I'd feel even worse if/when I somehow found out, that he was capable of lying to me for life.

justarandomguy Tue 07-May-13 22:34:20

Confusion, this is the wrong place to ask that question. Many of the people here are on the other end of what you have done, so you are going to receive a kicking. Its a great place to get that point of view.

Anyway good/bad/indifferent its irrelevant. Many people, including myself find themselves in your situation. Do not tell your husband unless you are looking to him to make a decision for you. If you are looking to rescue your marriage it will not help the situation one iota.

As someone else has already said you need to take responsibilty for your actions and your relationship. Which is really hard when you are in the midst of an affair, much easier said than done.

I would not torture yourself by posting here anymore if I were you. You will not receive any empathy, understandably and you are unlikely to receive much more in the way ofadvice from people looking at the situation from your perspective.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Tue 07-May-13 22:59:54


Taking responsibility is telling your spouse. He wouldn't be making the decision for her it would be for himself.

I find your advice a bit contradictory. confused

Mosman Wed 08-May-13 00:31:25

In the five years my H was having an affair he let me have another child with him and emigrate knowing that he wasn't a proper husband and neither of those things would have happened had I known about the shagging around. That really really grated that he knew and I didn't to the point of fury.

Snowme Wed 08-May-13 01:39:03

killerRobot has succinctly summarised all you need to know.

Mumsnet is not the place to come for any kind of advice really, better off seeing a shrink.

Selba Thu 09-May-13 00:06:37

Agree with justarandomguy.

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