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thinking things through, would appreciate any advice / thoughts

(37 Posts)
StillStuck Sun 05-May-13 19:28:19

have name changed, please don't out me if you recognise this and know my normal posting name, I feel the need to post under this one.

I posted another thread a while ago, I was seriously thinking about leaving DH and fair percentage of people on the thread said they would in my shoes. we were talking about a separation when I found out I was (most unexpectedly) pregnant with dc 2 (we have a 2.5 year old)...

the back story (which I have posted in detail before) is that he has behaved quite badly at times ever since DS arrived. shouting and swearing at me that I am a 'shit mother' (e.g. if I asked him to give me a break). when ds was very ill with eczema between 3-5 months he would come home and yell at me about the state of the house, yet ds was so ill I was spending the whole time looking after him with medicines, creams and he had dreadful diarrhoea from constant antibiotics.
when I had food poisoning he was yelling at me that I was a shit mother when I asked him for a break so I could sleep and try and keep some liquid down.
when DS broke his leg (at nursery) DH threw a tantrum about going to hospital instead of helping out (short version of story)

in between times he is helpful, but the shouting swearing tantrums really get to me, and I feel like I modify my behaviour to avoid them.

anyway... since finding out I was pregnant I have had hyperemesis, been admitted to hospital twice. DH on a number of occasions shouted and sworn at me when I was very ill in bed and needed him to look after ds. when ds broke my sick bowl in an accident DH screamed and swore at us both.

I just feel I saw the pregnancy as a chance for him to show me his behaviour has changed, and instead when I was at my most vulnerable he actted the same. in between times he is a good dad and does his share around the house etc. but the tempers are so draining. I confided in a friend last night and they couldn't even believe DH was capable of this.DH is remorseful now I have said how upset it made me, and upset about how he behaved in front of DS. but I am just so worried about how bad it will be when I am vulnerable again with a newborn (and highly likely another caesarean recovery). I almost feel it would be better to go it alone, but then I worry about whether this is a selfish thing to do to my children. DS would have to cope with me looking after him and a newborn on my own, and the baby would never know their dad..... hmmm.

sorry it is long. I will try and find my other thread and link as well

do you love him?

StillStuck Sun 05-May-13 19:31:12

the link to my previous thread

got to go do bedtime know, I will check back later

StillStuck Sun 05-May-13 19:32:09

I don't think I can respect him, or love him anymore. I don't think I believe he can treat me like that and love me. although he is desperately trying to think of gifts to buy me, things to do now to make up to me

CogitoErgoSometimes Sun 05-May-13 19:39:04

Don't stay with an abusive bully because I'm afraid that's what he is. I'm astonished you gave him a second chance to show you his behaviour had changed..... he's never going to change. Today it's you getting the aggressive treatment. Tomorrow it'll be your lovely children on the wrong end of this arsehole's bullyboy tactics

It would be better to go it alone and not selfish in the slightest to rescue your children from this appalling example of a man. He doesn't love you, you're just a 'thing' to be yelled at. Gifts....? Tell him to shove them where the sun don't shine

i left.

i felt selfish and horrid.

it was the best thing i've ever done. the children and myself are all so much happier.
an example, today we went out and had a fab day without the shadow of xh hanging over us.

it's not easy and i found that i had to literally bite the bullet and run before i changed my mind but i did it. im a better parent.

StillStuck Sun 05-May-13 19:53:16

My biggest worry is that if I stay with him, ds will begin to learn to talk to me like that. At the moment he is such a sweet little boy, and despite having no example from dh of looking after me he has tried to when I was ill (he brought me his teddy to cuddle for example). But I can't bear the thought of him witnessing more tantrums.
The pregnancy was such a shock (ds took years to conceive and there was only one incident this came from) and I think I knew I was almost inevitably going to be ill and saw it as a last chance for dh to show he had taken on board what we had discussed. Instead he dished out more of the same. Not all the time, but he never tried to look after me really and the I cantunderstand how anyone can yell and swear when asked to get up for a child in the night by their other half who has spent the evening vomiting uncontrollably.
It is hard though, the bad times are when I am too weak to think clearly, and then when I am better he tries so hard to make amends it confuses me out of making a decision I guess

StillStuck Sun 05-May-13 19:57:05

thanks ballerina it helps to hear positive stories

Can I share something else. I started trying to tell the midwife about this at booking in but she seemed to think it was normal really. But I worry because I am highly educated professional she wasn't really listening. But I think her reaction makes me worry that to leave is an overreaction? Maybe he is just a normal but grumpy husband? Not sure if that makes sense?

CognitiveOverload Sun 05-May-13 20:01:53

Your midwife cant tell if you are overreacting. ..she probably just assuming you are...don't let her comments make you doubt yourself.

it isn't an over reaction. he is far from just a grumpy husband. he is abusive to you and your child.

when i was with xh i remember being really upset when someone on here told me that i was enabling him to abuse myself and my dc and so therefore was as bad as him. it really really upset me but i needed to hear it.

you need to work out what is more important.

i hate being harsh (i know it doesn't look like it).

Pozzled Sun 05-May-13 20:16:43

You are not overreacting- you are underreacting IMO. Good, caring partners don't expect you to have a spotless house when looking after a small baby, let alone a poorly baby who needs constant care. A good partner would do as much as possible to make life easier when their partner has something like hyperemesis. And they don't shout or call you a shit mum for needing a break.

Your husband shows no sign at all of caring for you. From what you say he is completely selfish and you would be better off without him.

Jux Sun 05-May-13 21:03:58

He is not a grumpy husband. He is a bastard. LTB, and the sooner the better. You don't deserve this.

Set yourself and your children free.

StillStuck Sun 05-May-13 21:07:16

Its going to be bad when the new one comes, isn't it...

But I don't think anyone will understand why I have done what I have done, as they would find it hard to believe I think.

But I do wonder if dh wants out really, just he doesn't want to miss out on ds. He can't like me even to act like that when I was so obviously ill. I am considering suggesting a separation so he can see it can be ok and he will see that it will be better to be apart.

But last time I asked to separate he just never moved out, I said I would give him some time to sort things out and he just didn't...

Whatalotofpiffle Sun 05-May-13 22:26:22

My parents fought and my dad was stroppy, sulky and would occasionally behave in s very intimidating way. They split when I was 6 and my life improved so so much, and move of us had to modify our behaviour anymore which can be soul destroying. You feel it, can you imagine what it would feel like to tread on eggshells your whole childhood!

Would counselling be an option?

Jux Sun 05-May-13 23:29:49

Counselling would help you if you had any issues apart from having to live with a nasty bullying shit. However, it is not a good idea to go to counselling with a nasty bullying shit, as he will use it against you in one way or another. At best, he will subvert the sessions so they become pointless, and at worst he will learn how to hide his actions even more expertly, and make you sound batshit crazy.

Jux Sun 05-May-13 23:37:56

StillStuck, you need legal advice so you know where you stand and help to get him out or get yourself out.

Please call Women's Aid and talk to them.

It doesn't matter what people around you think. You may be very surprsed anyway. I have seen two threads today where the op didn't think anyone would believe the h was less than wonderful, but guess what? On both threads, when the ops eventually told people in rl that they were separating/divorcing the general response was "thank goodness for that, at last!". These men don't take people in nearly as much as they or their wives think they do, you know.

ElectricSheep Mon 06-May-13 00:13:37

Yes it's a bit shocking to find out how many people really dislike your X when they become an X.

OP, your H's exploiting your vulnerability and choosing to be particularly abusive at those times is an ea trait I've heard a few times now. It's one I notice more because my X used to be like this. It meant I could never depend on him, in fact the opposite, I knew he'd make a bad time x10 worse.

Which ever way you do this you know he's going to let you and your DS down badly when you give birth. I think it will be easier for you on your own. At least you won't be dealing with the hurt and anger as well. And you can ask other people for support more easily.

I think, reading back your other thread too, you have stuck this out long enough to know that he won't change. In fact his contempt and disdain for you are likely to grow and his treatment of you and DC will reflect that. Even the gifts are so disrespectful. He thinks he can treat you like crap and then buy you off with a gift? Pathetic. You have got to leave imho. Get all the info re finances you need. Make an exit plan. Then just go. You will feel so much better.

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 06-May-13 07:02:01

"But I do wonder if dh wants out really,"

Who cares what he wants?? Right now he's happy enough. He's got you treading on eggshells, second-guessing his every move and doubting yourself enough to ask midwives and post on websites. All the time he gets to throw his weight around in his own twisted universe. Last time you tried to get shot of him it's very clear that he had no intention of taking you seriously. He thinks you're just some stupid woman. Why would he want to change anything?...

Agree with the advice to call Womens Aid, see lawyers and do whatever you can to get him to leave. If you can't achieve that, take your DS and leave him.... then deal with divorce etc from another location.

You deserve better

WearingFuckMeSocks Mon 06-May-13 08:04:07

in between times he is helpful, but the shouting swearing tantrums really get to me, and I feel like I modify my behaviour to avoid them.

This, as I have very recently learned, is classic abuse, and as someone else said to me on my post, its not the times of reconciliation that matter, its the abuse. The "good times" in between are just part of the abuse. And the "good times" will get shorter and shorter as time goes on.

Please leave this man now. Seek legal advice so you know where you stand. Talk to WA, they are brilliant.

But I don't think anyone will understand why I have done what I have done, as they would find it hard to believe I think. As long as YOU understand why you have done what you have done, that's all that matters. People will believe what they want to believe, some people you will be able to tell the truth to and they will accept it, others may not. Confide in those people who you think WILL understand. For the rest, a simple explanation, such as, it wasn't working anymore, will be fine.

I'm in the early stages of realising that my H of 15 years has been abusive, have told him we need to split. When I told my mum that I was worried that other people wouldn't believe me because everyone thinks H is such a good guy she looked at me like this hmm and said that everyone of her friends and family that H had met had wondered why I was with him because he was such a control freak. People may not realise the true extent of the abuse, but they will have seen signs that all is not well. Trust me.

You deserve so much better than this and so do your dc. They are still very young and if you leave now you will prevent them being subject to this abuse as well.

flowers

StillStuck Mon 06-May-13 08:04:09

Thanks for all the posts, it is helping. I told him last night I want to separate. He tried apologising but I just said it was too late, the time to show me he could change was when I had hyperemesis. If he had been caring and no tantrums then then I would have tried to work on this. He acknowledged 'maybe I have a temper I can't control' but if he wants to work on that he can do it somewhere else.

He's going away anyway for two weeks with work on wednesday, so will try and sort what happens after that when he gets back.

I feel more relieved than scared about the future I think. Although juggling a newborn and toddler on my own seems daunting, but less daunting than also being told I am not doing it well enough.

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 06-May-13 08:06:55

BTW... 'tantrums' are something a toddler too young to take responsibility for their actions does. In a grown man it's called 'aggression' or 'bullying' and it's deliberate and conscious.

Suggest you tell him not to return from the work trip. Strike while the iron is hot. He's got a couple of days to pack and that should be plenty.

Use the two weeks he is away wisely also by finding out exactly where you stand legally and get him out of the family home. My guess too is that he will refuse to leave again but you can still get him out Enlist the help of family and friends. Talk to Womens Aid as well if you have not already done so.

Many women in abusive situations write he is a "good dad" comment when they themselves cannot write anything at all positive about their man. You have done that self same behaviour.

These men also do the nice/nasty cycle very well but its a continuous cycle and if you were to look closely at the good times you would probably see that they were not actually very good for you at all. Attempting to buy you off with gifts is all part of that cycle as well.

He is NOT a good dad if he treats you and by turn your child like this; your son cannot afford to learn such damaging lessons about relationships from his parents. You would be better off apart, there is no point at all in the two of you being together.

StillStuck Mon 06-May-13 08:23:26

cogito and the irony is my little toddler hasn't tantrummed once while I have been ill!

I will use the two weeks to make my plans. I will tell him to sort somewhere for when he gets back I don't want him to just not get round to leaving this time.

I worked out I could afford to stay in this house when it was just me and ds (thank god I went back to work and put away money each month!) But have to work out how I will manage financially on maternity leave now too. The entitled to calculator couldn't cope with my complicated situation, am I best going to see someone?

WearingFuckMeSocks Mon 06-May-13 08:44:44

His excuse maybe I have a temper I can't control is just that, an excuse.

I'm guessing that he manages to control his temper just fine with everyone else in his life?

And well done for telling him it's over. It's not an easy thing to do but the fact you're relieved rather than scared says it all.

StillStuck Mon 06-May-13 14:24:27

Wearing he mainly manages his temper well, but the warning signs were there about his temper when he met. he was known for getting really angry at his boss at work (I was a volunteer there), and his parents asked me I knew about his temper the first time we met (in early 20s). at the time I did have a flash of concern but he had never shown any temper to me and I guess it didn't occur to me things might change when we had children. I suspect his parents wont be totally surprised if they found out. but they would be massively disappointed, they are two of the gentlest loveliest people I know and certainly never treated him like this

wordyBird Mon 06-May-13 15:11:30

I remember your earlier thread, stillstuck.

Your latest posts show your H in his full character as a selfish bully. The criticism, aggression, knowing better, laughing at you is classic emotional abuse: as is trying to withhold medical treatment from your son (last thread) and shouting at you for being ill.

I suspect a real acid test for an abuser is their response to you when you are ill, or weakened in some way. Illness enrages abusers. They hate it. It really brings out their true, selfish colours.

So I think you're right to tell him to arrange somewhere to stay forthwith. Chances are he will do some planning himself: this may involve ignoring you, staying on anyway as he did before, constant attempts to control you, manipulate you by being unusually nice, guilt trip you about children.... he won't do nothing, that's for sure, and he'll do his best to frustrate you.

So you need to be in the strongest position you can while you have the chance.
Good luck, and take care.

welldone stillstuck!
good on you.

make an appointment at cab, find out options etc and be proud of yourself! it won't be easy but you've made a start!

Why do you think that the baby will not know his father if you leave? He can still be a father, separate from you.

StillStuck Mon 06-May-13 18:06:56

I don't mean they won't know the father ehric, just been they won't get to start life with us all as one family if that makes sense. Of course they will still seem him

StillStuck Mon 06-May-13 18:08:05

Sorry read my first post and realise why you were thinking that! Think I missed off secondhalf of a sentence!

ImperialBlether Mon 06-May-13 18:23:40

If you were happy when your husband was working away, think how your son felt. You're right - if your husband stays, your son will probably end up speaking to you in the same way. He certainly won't respect you for staying.

Your husband sounds absolutely awful. I'm sure there can be good times, if you are well and everything's going OK, but for god's sake, for him to be screaming about getting up with his own child when his wife is being sick - that is absolutely disgraceful. It's particularly bad given he's not even at home all the time.

His poor parents have clearly suffered at his hands. Reassure them that you'll still be just as involved with them as always - I'd put money on them expecting you to leave him and you've probably lasted a lot longer than they thought you would. It was good of them to ask you about his anger when you met, too - imagine how hard that must have been for them and how worried they must have been about the way he'd treat you.

lemonstartree Mon 06-May-13 21:57:34

This is a horrible horrible man. Please please make him leave. I wouldn't treat my flatmate (if I had one) as he has treated you. Its cruel, heartless and utterly selfish.

Just get rid....please....

StillStuck Mon 06-May-13 22:04:25

we have been discussing how it will work, I have told him he needs to find somewhere to stay by the time he gets back from his work trip. there are plenty of friends he can stay with temporarily and then we will work out money etc when he is back, it gives me time to research and plan.

he says he doesn't know 'why' he did it. I just said I don't really care why, its actually not relevant to me.

StillStuck Mon 06-May-13 22:08:03

are there any good resources for explaining what is going on to a toddler? he's 2.5 but and his language is very advanced for his age so he will be asking a lot of questions and needing satisfactory answers to them but he is still a baby really.

Jux Mon 06-May-13 22:19:46

I think you get a favourite dvd ready. Then you say something like "Sometimes it turns out that it's better for everybody if two people don't live together any more. Sometimes, if a person is mean and calls names and shouts and gets very cross, they can find that they like each other better if they live apart. So that's what mummy and daddy are going to try, so that they can get along better. We both love you very, very much, and you will always be the most important person in the world to me." Give him a few minutes for questions and then put on the dvd....

Truth in simple language.
Lots of reassurance.
Questions.
Distraction.

Is that any good? Others will have better wording, I expect. I've not had to do it, so could be very wrong.

ElectricSheep Mon 06-May-13 22:26:02

Do you need to 'announce' it? After all if he is used to his dad going away a lot he will assume he's just on a work trip won't he?

Personally, I'd delay telling him until you are a bit further down the line and you know where you are going to be and everything is a bit more settled.

When the time comes I just stick to very basic facts - Dad has a new house. You will see him on x days at his new house. And then be directed by his questions. I'm sure there will be some good books at the library about mummy and daddy living apart. But I'd hold off at this stage.

StillStuck Mon 06-May-13 22:35:53

electric I was thinking I will wait at least until dh is back from his work trip, as that is normal anyway, and then means we will have more of a plan so it will be easier for me to answer questions. But there will be questions in time, he notices everything!

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