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P being unfaithful

(153 Posts)
TwoSugarsWithLotsOfMilk Sun 05-May-13 10:53:24

Have NC'd as my usual moniker is very telling.

Backstory: I moved in with MIL and FIL because of DP's work. We moved when DS was 2 months old. My family are nowhere near, not many friends even after 18 months of being here. Also a language barrier as most people here speak [as a primary] a language I don't know, but am learning. They're happy with English, but it's still awkward. I had PND badly, really suffered with it but am out of the woods now.

In the past I have found sexually explicit texts/e-mails/Facebook messages from DP to a man, who is a friend from school days. I was understandably distraught, but was assured it wouldn't happen again and that he was just trying to deal with the strain of being a new parent and being in a new job and having to deal with my PND. He also assured me that he was not gay, and that it was "all talk and no action" if you get my drift? He cut contact with this person voluntarily.

About 5 months after this happened, I accidentally saw a Facebook conversation with a girl, as our Google Chrome opens the last viewed page. In it, there were some fairly sexually explicit messages, mostly from her but some from him.

She also was incredibly cruel about me, claiming that I was using my PND as an excuse to laze about and that a year after the birth of my child is too long to be clinging to my excess weight. Although DP stood up for me in that instance, I couldn't ignore the messages. We began a trial separation and I eventually accepted him back after a fortnight of him trying his utmost to make things right between us.

Since then, we've been closer than ever, our DS has grown and I've never felt more happy. Our sexlife was back on track and it felt like a whole new relationship.

Fast forward another 7 months to today. He's been texting his very close friend [S] a lot, because she lives far away and so we only see her sporadically. They are very close, have been friends since they were little, and is considered an integral part of our friendship circle. They had a brief fling about 9 years ago, when they were in their teens, but nothing ever came of it and DP was upfront and honest about there being no feelings involved, and that it was just sex and "not very good sex at that" [his words].

His phone vibrates and because I'm closest, I check. It's from S and it is filthy. I go and check his previous contact with S only to find around a days worth of messages, but all the messages have turned deeply sexual.

DP - "You can tie me to your bed and do anything you like xxx"
DP - "TwoSugars is having a good week - we've had sex three times but I still want more can you come and finish me off"
DP - "Sat here wanking to porn while TwoSugars is asleep, wish you were here"

I've confronted him, and he has pulled his usual sadface and is there looking miserable. I have tried to keep my cool and have told him exactly how disappointed I am, that I thought we were OK and that I've never been so disgusted. Because she's such a close friend I now have to wonder what has been going on, whether this is new or whether it's been going on longer because he's known to delete messages from his phone as he likes "a tidy inbox".

For various reasons regarding money, my family, his family and commitments, I cannot just up and leave, either with DS or without him. I have no idea what I am meant to do about this. I'm so ashamed of myself. I thought we were OK.

I'm so sorry it's long, but I just didn't want to dripfeed. I mean it when I say that I cannot leave, even as a break. What do I do?

WhiteBirdBlueSky Sun 05-May-13 10:57:51

Can you really not leave?

WishIdbeenatigermum Sun 05-May-13 10:58:54

I can't imagine what commitments could keep you with him. You have no responsibility to his family. He blew that one as well as your relationship.
Could you come back to the uk and stay with or near family?

WhiteBirdBlueSky Sun 05-May-13 10:58:57

You might want to repost this to Relationships by the way.

HoHoHoNoYouDont Sun 05-May-13 10:59:26

I take it you're not in the UK?

MsJupiterJones Sun 05-May-13 10:59:45

I'm so sorry to read this. Please don't be ashamed of yourself - you have nothing to be ashamed of.

If you can't leave right now then you need to look to the future and making that possible.

NoelHeadbands Sun 05-May-13 11:00:25

If you really won't leave I'm not sure there's anything you can do, except to accept that he is sexually incontinent (at least where messaging/ texting is concerned) and not interested whatsoever in changing his behaviour.

sarahthesolicitor Sun 05-May-13 11:00:28

I think you've put up with enough. This situation is only going to get worse. Your DP is a liar. Surely you must realise that you deserve better than this?

I don't know your circumstances but you need to get yourself out of this situation preferably as quickly as possible.

TwoSugarsWithLotsOfMilk Sun 05-May-13 11:00:33

I am actually in the UK, sorry I didn't make that clear. But yes - I really mean that I cannot move out of this house, unless I take to the streets.

Roshbegosh Sun 05-May-13 11:00:33

Ditto

Roshbegosh Sun 05-May-13 11:01:44

Sorry cross post.
You need to either leave or, if you really can't, live separate lives until you can

Finola1step Sun 05-May-13 11:03:49

You have two options:

Option 1: stay and accept that he is never going to be truly faithful. He wants sexual contact with others alongside your relationship. With men and women. He wants an open relationship where he can do what he wants.

Option 2: find a way to leave. There is always a way, even if it is very hard.

Just curious OP... If it was you sending and receiving sexually explicit messages with a range of people over a period of time, what would his reaction be?

WishIdbeenatigermum Sun 05-May-13 11:04:22

If you're in the uk, talk to the cab. You might have to spend some time on a b&b but you can leave, you know.

yes you need to ask for this to be put in relationships.

are you absolutely sure that you cant leave? seems like that is the only option to me. if my dh had done all that to me i would be leaving.

im sure there will be others along to help you way better than i can. keep posting, there are good people here with excellent advice x

TheUnicornsGoHawaiian Sun 05-May-13 11:06:05

Agree with jupiter. If leaving now isnt possible, then you need to work towards it. Are you in contact with any family friends in the UK. Speak to them and they may be able to help. Are your partners family approachable? surely they couldnt defend his behaviour and could help? thanks it must be awful, but I think enough is enough.

i post far too slow! confused

Finola1step Sun 05-May-13 11:07:25

So if you are in the UK, what's stopping you from talking to a housing officer at your local council? How is there a language barrier?

Tabliope Sun 05-May-13 11:07:57

You can move. If you're in the UK you get on a train and you go home to your parents until you sort yourself out, it doesn't matter how far away they are. I'd also be telling his parents who you live with to explain why. You've given this piece of shit - because that's what he is - chance after chance. He will not change. Go home to your parents, get in touch with CSA, ask for financial help from his parents and start your own life without this baggage. If I found out my son was treating a woman like this I'd be on your side 100% and would ensure you were looked after financially by him.

TheUnicornsGoHawaiian Sun 05-May-13 11:09:03

Sorry x post about the UK. I thought you were abroad. Im sure someone will be along shortly to tell you of an organisation that might be able to help. Couldnt you ask DP to leave whilst you sort things? im sorry if youve already addressed that, I couldnt remember from your original post.

TheUnicornsGoHawaiian Sun 05-May-13 11:10:14

Davidtennantme too!! the situation is generally resolved by the time I reply. smile

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Sun 05-May-13 11:11:55

What a seedy man.

He isn't going to stop doing this. You know that, don't you? He's been caught and caught and caught and he's STILL doing it. This tells you that he is not going to stop.

For every person you have caught him doing this with, you can be reasonably sure that there are several you have not.

So you have to decide if you are going to accept it or not.

If not, then you can talk to shelter, talk to the cab, hell, talk to womens aid to see what advice they can give you about how a woman removes herself from a relationship when she has children and no money!

He is doing sad face because sad face has worked up to now.

oh, and - straight men do not engage in sexually explicit talk with other men. So he is probably bisexual.

What hec said.

theunicorns glad im not the only one! happens all the time. i blame typing on my phone grin

op i really hope you get the help you need to leave... and i agree with the poster who called him a piece of shit! he sounds blooming awful sad

IneedAsockamnesty Sun 05-May-13 11:14:15

Op you can leave if you want to. Turn up with the baby at your local authority and they have to find you emergency accommodation. It will be a crappy B and B or something like that but it will be accommodation.

TheVermiciousKnid Sun 05-May-13 11:14:32

I assume he is fully aware that it would be difficult for you to leave and therefore feels he can do whatever he wants. sad What a bastard.

I think you should do some more research and find out exactly what your options are re leaving. There is probably more help available than you realise.

What else can you do? He is obviously not going to change.

HoHoHoNoYouDont Sun 05-May-13 11:22:48

Also a language barrier as most people here speak [as a primary] a language I don't know, but am learning. They're happy with English, but it's still awkward

I'm intrigued as to where you are in the UK. There is nowhere here where you can't get support.

Contact Women's Aid they should be able to advise you.

TidyDancer Sun 05-May-13 11:23:57

I'm guessing OP has married into a family where English isn't the first language and their community also doesn't speak English well?

I really would go to the council in this instance, there is a shortage of housing, but there are always places in circumstances like this.

Purple2012 Sun 05-May-13 11:28:22

You can leave. It may not be easy but you can do it.

Unless that is an excuse not to. I don't think he will change, he has done it too often and got away with it.

You dont deserve to live like this. A few hard months will be worth it in the long run.

ScrambledSmegs Sun 05-May-13 11:31:43

I would leave. There is always a way to leave in the UK, you don't have to stay. He will do it again, it's who he is.

Btw I'm sorry but it's obvious to me where in the UK (roughly) the OP is. I think speculating over where she is isn't fair, or even necessary.

Apileofballyhoo Sun 05-May-13 11:31:53

Sorry for you OP and don't really know what to say. Does he have a sex addiction? Does he suffer from mental health problems? Do you think he has been physically unfaithful? His intimacy with his old friend is completely unacceptable. I wish I could help you. I think you would be wise to get away.

Surprised that people haven't considered the OP could be in Wales or Scotland...

Hissy Sun 05-May-13 11:36:28

Ahem, there ARE countries, within the UK that speak the local language as a day to day proference, but English is the official language of the nation.

Ireland, Scotland and Wales all have their own languages and some communities do actively speak them day to day.

OP, you HAVE to leave. Living with someone that has that little respect for you will destroy you.

Ok there is no 15 bed mansion for you to decamp to, but there IS a social welfare system, there IS WA and there are people here who will help and advise you.

Don't put up with this. Not for anyone or anything.

Viviennemary Sun 05-May-13 11:38:09

He doesn't sound as if he is going to change his behaviour. And you say leaving is not an option. So it seems you will just have to find a way to deal with the unacceptable and you have backed yourself into a corner over this.

milkymocha Sun 05-May-13 11:48:42

This is the 3rd time now.
How many times does he need to fuck up before you realise he doesnt care about you!?

TwoSugarsWithLotsOfMilk Sun 05-May-13 12:12:10

He has said that he needs help, and that it's become more of a compulsion. I've ended the relationship but his mum and dad have refused to let me leave the house permanently, as FIL's sister has been through all of this (welfare and crappy b&bs etc) and he is adamant it won't happen to his first grandchild.

They are distraught that this has happened not just now but previously, and FIL has said that he's amazed how forgiving I am.

I've left the relationship, but not the house.

Is there any reason why you can't move back home to your family? This is going to keep happening, he's playing you. I know you've forgiven him twice, but this is third time you have caught him, how many times has he done it when you haven't caught him? He quite obviously (and sorry if this blunt) doesn't give a shit about you or your relationship. He wants his cake and to eat it.

There can't possibly be anything keeping you there apart from his emotional blackmail and/or his control? If you're in the UK then there is help and you can up and leave. He is going to carry on doing this to you.

Why? Why can't you leave the house permanently? How on earth can they stop you? Physically? Call the police. Emotionally? Be strong and leave, you owe them nothing.

If his mum and dad are refusing to let you leave the house, ring the police and do it now.

TwoSugarsWithLotsOfMilk Sun 05-May-13 12:18:15

No no, they have begged me to stay because they cannot bear to see me or DS on the streets or in a rubbish little room - they understand why I've ended it but they can't see us homeless because of their sons mistakes IYSWIM

TidyDancer Sun 05-May-13 12:18:27

Not sure if that was meant for me, Hissy. If it was, you have more assumptions than I have. I didn't say or mean that the OP's ILs weren't British!

HoHoHoNoYouDont Sun 05-May-13 12:18:48

As harsh as this sounds you need to get a backbone and stand up to these people. They cannot force you to stay and stop you leaving. Who are they, the bloody mafia!

TidyDancer Sun 05-May-13 12:20:11

TwoSugars, bare in mind they are likely acting in their own self interests. They don't want to lose their grandson, or lose full stop. Sorry to be cynical, but this may be absolutely nothing to do with your (or even your DS's) welfare.

MushroomSoup Sun 05-May-13 12:20:16

Your PIL cannot dictate to you about where you will live.

Nanny0gg Sun 05-May-13 12:25:42

If they were that supportive they would kick out their excuse for a son and support you and your DC.

So get in touch with CAB and find out your options. This situation is untenable.

Bogeyface Sun 05-May-13 12:28:04

They probably think they are being kind to you, but that is driven by panic and self interest.

Take your DS out for the afternoon somewhere that he can play and you can think. Just to the nearest playground would do. Get your head on straight about what YOU want to do, and then think through how you can get it.

Draw a metaphorical line from A (where you are now) to B (where you want to be both physically and emotionally), and work your way slowly along it. For a start that is going to see your local housing officer tomorrow, going on www.entitledto.co.uk/ to find out what benefits you will be able to claim (you can claim them while living in the same house as long as you are seperated) and contacting your HV or local Homestart centre to see if they can offer you any help.

You CAN do this, you just need to stay strong and not allow the bullying to affect your plan.

nailak Sun 05-May-13 12:28:16

then tell them to make your husband leave.

Tell them it is not in appropriate for you to be living in the same house as him. You need some space away from him, and either he leaves or you do with DS.

Tell them you also did not want to live in a B&B but it is their sons actions which are forcing you to do so, and pil are welcome to meet up with you and go with ds to park etc, but you do not want to see or talk to husband, you already said everything there was to say last time.

WishIdbeenatigermum Sun 05-May-13 12:29:17

Pils could kick him out or put you up in luxury somewhere if they're that fussed about your welfare. hmm
Run away from the lot of them.

Couldn't your P go to live somewhere else and you stay put until you get enough saved for a place of your own?

IneedAsockamnesty Sun 05-May-13 12:51:12

If my son did that to the mother of his child she could stay I would throw him out.

I would be very careful op. by staying living with them you are giving them the ability to evidence a significant relationship with your child and in the future they could cause you lots of court related problems.

TwoSugarsWithLotsOfMilk Sun 05-May-13 14:20:10

I'll be approaching the subject with them tomorrow. For now I'm out of the house, in the fresh air. And I'm thinking.

Would it be horrible of me to message S myself, and tell her that we're over as a direct result of the messages exchanged between them? And that she should sort her shit out with her estranged husband rather than messaging other men?

b4bunnies Sun 05-May-13 14:22:55

twosugars

your life has gone tits-up. that's horrible but it happens to a lot of us.your in-laws are messing with your head. their views do not count. you are currently almost a prisoner.

find your passport (does your ds have a passport? find that too). find any other important documents. proof of his income if you have access to that.

put ds's clothes, favourite toy and all your jewellery in a bag. even a small amount of gold is saleable and can make the difference between a meal or going hungry.

on tuesday, put on more clothes than you would normally wear; take the bag. 'go shopping' early with ds. go to social services and ask for help.
at that point you have left.

if you can get your parents to support you after that, do.

twosugars no dont message her. if he does go to her after this then she will soon learn what a shitbag he is. its never a good idea to message/contact the others involved as it will just drag you in and down further. you dont need that right now. you just need to break away with your head held high... dont stoop down to their level. they're so not worth it. you're worth more than that smile

"his mum and dad have refused to let me leave the house permanently, as FIL's sister has been through all of this (welfare and crappy b&bs etc) and he is adamant it won't happen to his first grandchild."

They can 'refuse' all they want, it means nothing. And if he's so damned adamant, he can put his hand in his pocket and pay rent on wherever you go. You CAN leave.

Where is your partner living right now? Have his parents thrown him out? Because if they haven't, then they do not have your interests at heart; they're just saving face.

McBalls Sun 05-May-13 15:59:49

Twosugars, I read your 'I cannot leave' as 'I don't want to leave'.
I'm sure you have your reasons for that, the idea of turning your life upside down is daunting, maybe you want to cling onto your dp no matter what (there a lot of that about), maybe the benefits you gain from being there outweigh the pain of being repeatedly lied to and humiliated?

Whatever it is, I'm not sure what you want people to say. This is him and this is what he does, it's not a glitch this is your life. You either accept this life or you don't and you say you're not going anywhere.

So what is it you want to hear?

ENormaSnob Sun 05-May-13 16:00:39

You need to get away from this man.

Asap.

Wannabestepfordwife Sun 05-May-13 16:57:53

You need to leave for your sanity.

It sounds like you have been so ground down by his actions that you have no confidence or self-worth.

I can't imagine how terrifying the thought of going it alone on welfare will be for you but you need to do it for yourself and your son. You need to rebuild yourself and build yourself a life. Your ds deserves a mum who is happy and independent not a shadow who is taken advantage of.

Other posters have given some good practical advice please take it.

StuntGirl Sun 05-May-13 17:08:17

"If they were that supportive they would kick out their excuse for a son and support you and your DC."

Exactly. They don't really care about you or your son.

They can 'refuse' to let you leave as much as they like but unless they're are physically restraining you and imprisoning you (which is illegal - so call the police) then they can't stop you.

CouthySaysEatChoccyEggs Sun 05-May-13 17:08:35

If one of my sons treated the Mother of their DC like this, the Mother would have my full support. I would kick my DS out and keep space for the Mother and DC. If I had the money, I may pay for a bedsit for my DS, or a house for the Mother and DC, but no way would I expect them both to continue to live with me.

That's not having your Ex-DIL and GC's interests at heart - that's trying to 'save face'. Because if YOU move out, you will likely tell people why. And that might be embarrassing for them.

I'd be fixing to find a way to move out, tbh, if it was me. I'd thank my PIL's for their support, and assure them that they are welcome to see their GC regularly, but that it was untenable for me to continue to share a house with my Ex-P that has the morals of an alley cat!

Hissy Sun 05-May-13 17:15:00

TidyDancer, no sleight intended, just that there was a lot of speculation before your post and seeing as it's fairly identifiable if we out and out guess it or doggedly ask about it, thought to clear it up as it's kind of irrelevant.

Op is in the UK, so CAN get the support available, we just need to encourage her to try and get it. smile

TwoSugarsWithLotsOfMilk Sun 05-May-13 17:21:11

You're right, you're all right. I need to leave. I need to recognize that he has put me down for too long...

TwoSugarsWithLotsOfMilk Sun 05-May-13 17:26:21

Oh Jesus, I've just lost my shit.

P has told me that I can go to the local authority, however DS won't be leaving with me. And if I try and take him, he'll begin court proceedings against me for full custody.

Shit shit shit. What do I do?

foslady Sun 05-May-13 17:26:21

He has Two Suagrs - think back to before you two met - I bet you were a different person.

You need to go, you don't deserve such a crap life and neither does your child.

foslady Sun 05-May-13 17:26:55

Let him try - you take your child with you and find a good solicitor

TwoSugarsWithLotsOfMilk Sun 05-May-13 17:27:07

I've just gone insane at him. I've kept my cool throughout all of this, but now he's realized that keeping me here is the only power he has left. Oh God I don't want to lose my son...

foslady Sun 05-May-13 17:29:23

I very much doubt you will - he's using desperation tactics now. Where was your son born, you may need to stay in the UK, but that doesn't mean with him

TwoSugarsWithLotsOfMilk Sun 05-May-13 17:30:22

I'm in UK, DS is UK-Born.

I've just Googled, can't find my local authority office! It just keeps linking me back to the main page, no address or anything. If he even dares try I'll leave Tuesday and never come back.

foslady Sun 05-May-13 17:33:51

Look at the bottom of the page for a 'contact us' bit.

Can I suggest you get this put in legal or relationships? They will be able to advise further - good luck Hun - and STAY STRONG

MadamFolly Sun 05-May-13 17:34:42

They may be keeping you so they can go for custody of DS, it has happened before...

FutureNannyOgg Sun 05-May-13 17:35:31

Contact Womens Aid, right away. He is emotionally blackmailing you. You need to get out, they will help you. 0808 2000 247

foslady Sun 05-May-13 17:37:52
StuntGirl Sun 05-May-13 17:42:13

First things first, take a deep breath and stay calm. He's shown his hand, you know what he's thinking. That means you can take steps to avoid that.

Try putting your postcode in here

If it's like mine there will be a 'contact us' section with a long list of departments and phone numbers, so you can select the right one.

Or you can try CAB for advice, or even Women's Aid.

If he or his family get violent in the slightest don't be afraid to call 999.

whatamardarse Sun 05-May-13 17:43:13

shock flowers
Oh lord what a hideous situation for you! You must leave ASAP before all your self esteem flys out the window and it too let!

Normal men do NOT behave like this. He is a bastard of the first order! He clearly has no respect for you or your family as a unit and will not change. Please leave << big hugs >>

Darkesteyes Sun 05-May-13 17:45:13

Agree with these other posters. Contact Womens Aid ASAP

Tabliope Sun 05-May-13 17:47:04

I don't want to worry you but would your DH get your DS out the country to stay with relatives abroad without you? Not knowing your personal living circumstances I have the feeling that you're in a way being held semi-captive - I could be wrong - but you have no independence at all, no friends outside of this circle. I could be reading that wrong but I'd be safeguarding against the worse and getting out of there ASAP. I don't want to go into it here but I have personal experience of a similar situation where I was threatened with something similar regarding my DS. You need to gain back control of your life. Is your name on anything?

Badvoc Sun 05-May-13 17:48:10

Women aid ASAP.
Then leave.

Darkesteyes Sun 05-May-13 17:50:55

OP he is thinking that he can have DC full time and claim the child related benefits while the GPs look after the child full time while he shags around. I wouldnt be surprised if this has crossed the GPs minds too
THIS is why they want to keep you there. Please contact WA as soon as possible. he will NOT be able to have full custody of your child but what i have written here is what he and possibly GPs are thinking.

JerseySpud Sun 05-May-13 17:55:35

What the other ladies have said. This is now emotional abuse and blackmail.

There is no court that will pick a father over a loving, caring mother, no chance. He's just trying to scare you.

Phone Womens Aid. Find all documents.

Bogeyface Sun 05-May-13 17:59:31

You would be amazed at the number of men that pull this shit in order to frighten their exes into caving in.

What he doesnt know is that it costs thousands (tens of thousands sometimes) to fight for full custody and take months and sometimes years. He is all hot air. Dont worry about him taking your son, that will not happen, but you need to leave asap for your own sanity.

Ruprekt Sun 05-May-13 17:59:57

I would find ds's passport and keep it safe.

TwoSugarsWithLotsOfMilk Sun 05-May-13 18:16:45

We're at an agreement. We're going to apply for joint custody - he gets DS on his days off.

Tabliope Sun 05-May-13 18:21:23

I think you're mad agreeing anything with this man who has lied and lied and lied. Are you leaving? You need to get out of there then talk about the days he gets DS. Up to you though.

I would be agreeing to fuck all with him. Seriously fuck all.

Joint custody doesn't exist any more anyway.

McBalls Sun 05-May-13 18:31:42

I think you're getting all jumbled up here.

You do not need to be agreeing any terms of access/custody or anything else at this point and I wouldn't trust that he wasn't using this type of conversation to manipulate you - overwhelm you with practicalities to keep you from actually leaving.

Your priority now is to make arrangements to leave.

dont agree to anything yet! get yourself out and sorted then you can come up with arrangements for your dc.

pp have given you excellent advice and links to people that can help you with all this.

stay calm, no matter what stunt he pulls out of the hat... he'll only use it against you otherwise! he is emotionally abusive and you cant trust him. remember that

SugarPasteGreyhound Sun 05-May-13 18:40:23

Women's aid. Do not agree to anything without seeing a solicitor

StuntGirl Sun 05-May-13 18:42:41

"Women's aid. Do not agree to anything without seeing a solicitor"

I agree with this.

FoxyRoxy Sun 05-May-13 18:46:35

"Women's aid. Do not agree to anything without seeing a solicitor"

I agree with this.

As do I.

I think the majority of us would say contact Womens Aid asap, get advice from them and then try to get back to your family. Don't believe a word he says.

NoWayPedro Sun 05-May-13 19:12:11

"I would be agreeing fuck all"

^^ this x 100 and agree with all the other advice too.

Don't want to worry you but there is potential for STIs here too since you have no idea what he's actually up to. Protect yourself and you DS from this vile, sorry excuse for a man and the PIL can EFF off as well.

Best of luck to you smile

Hissy Sun 05-May-13 22:36:29

It's OK.

It really is OK. You will NOT lose your son. you will NOT lose your son.

You don't need to agree a thing. Oh yes, tell him NOW that you agree, get the fuck OUT of there and then say NO.

He is violent, he sees he is entitled to be so, you are in fear of him. That is that. The SS will back you up.

Woman's Aid. CAB, and breathe.

The panic is a trick they all try to use. If you can stay calm, you can think. That's why he winds you up. It's a game.

relax, calm, be still. he can't do anything to you.

WishIdbeenatigermum Sun 05-May-13 22:48:43

Get your ds's passport. If you can't get it I don't think it would be an over reaction to call the police and get the two of you out now.

IneedAsockamnesty Sun 05-May-13 23:24:15

Op in order for him to enforce anything to do with contact he has to take you to court. He cannot force you to do a thing without a court order.

He cannot prevent you leaving with your dc unless you do anything stupid like be violent to him or his parents. If he try's just be really calm and call the police. They won't do much other than turn up but when they do you can just walk out with your dc he won't stop you because the police are there the police won't stop you as he has no court order.

Go for a walk tomorrow use a phone box or walk into a police station cab office council office and say " I need some help please can you call woman's aid for me I've got no access to a phone and I need help now" they will do it.

Woman's aid can even find you and dc a refuge place and arrange transport for you. When you get there the staff can help you sort benefits and other stuff

Oh and whilst you are in a refuge he can't find you or dc. He may not have been physically violent (tbh I expect he has) he is emotionally and financially abusive and his parents and him are basically trying to hold you hostage that's domestic violence.

Oh I second the extra layers of clothing and cram a changing bag with dc's fav things.

BreatheandFlyAway Sun 05-May-13 23:42:23

Legally, you hold all the cards, Don't let him make you think otherwise. He knows this and is trying to panic you. By posting here you've made your future safe because it shows you are seeking the road of freedom, however wobbly you feel now. Don't agree anything unless you have to give some words in order to keep the peace. This is your call. Good luck, lots of support from here smile

DizzyZebra Mon 06-May-13 02:30:07

Leave with your child. Wait until he is at work, or else physically pick the child up and leave. He cannot physically stop you - that would be assault.

The worst he can do is apply to the court. They would NOT give him residence just because he wants it.

Do not tell him where you have gone. Do not tell his parents. Do not let your child out of your sight until you have a court order preventing him from keeping the child - as he is on the birth certificate presumably, if he withheld the child you wouldn't be able to stop him, you'd have to apply to court.

Do not agree to anything.

I agreed joint custody with XH and then he reneged on it and said I could only have dd at weekends (so he could carry on drinking whilst looking like a caring dad in the week). It too 2 years and tens if thousands of pounds to sort the situation and get joint residence with dd living with me and him having her every other weekend and half the holidays.

You leave that baby with him and I guarantee you will be paints as a villain by him and his parents and will have to fight for access.

Go to women's aid. Get his behaviour and the not letting you leave etc recorded because you will need all the cards possible to use against these arseholes who are manipulating you. And they are doing it for their benefit not for that if your child.

Seriously I spent hours on here and went through hell to the extent that I ended up in antidepressants, in therapy, not eating and standing at the road side waiting for a bus to come along. Whatever you will have to go through in the short term to get your life in order is nothing compared to the shit you will have to deal with if you don't stand up for yourself against these people.

TwoSugarsWithLotsOfMilk Mon 06-May-13 09:45:34

God, I can't take this!!! They seem to think I'm unstable so am getting it from P, MIL, FIL and DIL. They keep telling me not to be hasty and that if I leave then it's on my own. They think I'm an unfit mother because of my PND and so they're trying to convince me not to leave. They're also telling me that it's not going to be good for DS in a druggie house and the best thing for both of us is to stay put!!! Are they right?! It seems like such a solid argument, God I'm so confused!!!!

Branleuse Mon 06-May-13 09:51:02

he can go for full cstody, but he wont get it. Not a chance in hell.

LOADS of men threaten this. It really hardly ever happens. Judges see straight through it. Its a tactic to frighten you

They are talking a pile of crap. Scare tactics.

Get out. Stay out. And get the solicitors out.

To paraphrase a fire brigade ad.

SirBoobAlot Mon 06-May-13 09:58:40

What a vile family. Call women's aid. NOW. Where in the UK are you? If you can't find the local authority details yourself, maybe there is a MNer who knows.

Get away from these people, immediately.

TwoSugarsWithLotsOfMilk Mon 06-May-13 10:12:00

I'm in Wales - I've rung Womens Aid and talked to someone but P interrupted me calling. Will leave tomorrow.

What do I take? I don't know where DS's Birth Cert. is and he has no passport!

IneedAsockamnesty Mon 06-May-13 10:17:35

Why on earth would you be taking your child to a druggie house?

Refuge is not a druggie house ( they have strict rules regarding things like that)

Op strange question for you but are you sure you still have pnd? And not just a massive case of situation related stress they sound like they are doing every thing they can to tip you over they edge and that they want you to be ill.

I would bet my hitachi magic wand that once you leave this hugely toxic house and family behind your health will improve.

Its in there interests for you to be ill because that give them a weapon to use, when was the last time you saw a docter? If you are caring for you child and not a danger at all then its harder for them to use this against you.

Why are you even discussing this with them why are you even giving them the heads up that is not in your interests whilst you are under their roof you are giving them power.

Just walk out even if you can't grab bulky things or lots of clothing those items can be provided by various charities.

geologygirl Mon 06-May-13 10:21:29

Stop discussing things with them! Do not listen to a single word they say about anything. They are trying to control and manipulate you. Do not agree on anything either. Wouldn't suprise me if you went off to work one day, left your ds with him...and by the time you return they refuse you back in or have left the house entirely!

Say nothing. Get some bits together and go with your DS. Go to the police station if necessary. They can call womens aid for you, who can help with some emergency accommodation.

There's a saying I heard on here goes something like just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

They are,out to get you and they will say and do anything to pressure you. Switch off to what theyre saying it is bullshit.

IneedAsockamnesty Mon 06-May-13 10:26:51

Go for a walk and make the call. Ask to be found a bed say you have left.

You can request out of Wales,

A birth cert is none essential anybody can pay a tenner and get a copy including you no point in taking it to prevent them having it as they can get a copy very quickly any way they are public record.

Does your dc have a red book? That has NHs number and is quite important. Where does the cb get paid? Joint or single account because if its joint you can change that but it can be done after you go just take as much out of the account as you can to tide you over.

Any public record document don't bother finding because you can get those copied.

You need your personal paperwork bank stuff anything you can't do without,any medications your passport dc's fav teddy or toy as many layers of underware you can fit on without being obvious

IneedAsockamnesty Mon 06-May-13 10:31:59

Oh and just for the record they are trying to push you into reacting in a way they can then use against you.

Push push push until you explode they will then call the police and have you removed so they can keep your son by claiming your the one whose abusive amd dangerious.the only way you can fight this is by doing nothing at all that could be considered hysterical or dramatic or volitile or angry.

They can do none of this if you are not there.

StuntGirl Mon 06-May-13 10:37:15

Everything pixie said!

You and your son are worth more than this life twosugars.

b4bunnies Mon 06-May-13 10:42:28

I haven't read all of pixie's advice but for goodness sake, if it involves staying calm and getting out of there, do it.

Wannabestepfordwife Mon 06-May-13 10:44:59

Op it sounds like they are holding you against your will in a very controlling manipulative environment you need to get out.

I don't want to sound alarmist but I think you should pm a poster you trust your address so if you stop coming on here at regular intervals we can inform the police of what's happening. In this situation it's not above the realms of possibility your ex and his family may take your form of communication (phone/email)

Zorra Mon 06-May-13 11:28:32

They sound horrendous, please listen to all the advice here. I'm in north Wales, PM me if there's any way I can help x

TwoSugarsWithLotsOfMilk Mon 06-May-13 11:56:43

I'm packed. Out with P on own, going to meet my mum as its bank hol. Gonna get her to help me take ds and then ring women's aid. I hate myself for doing this but it needs to be done.

Tabliope Mon 06-May-13 12:20:19

Don't hate yourself. You've done nothing wrong. We're all telling you that. I wouldn't be out without your DS. I'm sorry, I'm just saying. I don't want to freak you out but I'd be thinking will he be there when we get back. I'd calm the situation down for a day or two as if they've won you round then make a break when their guard is down. What the others have said is correct. They will push you until you do something irrational then they can say she's not a fit mother. My ex tried it with me. After that one incident though when he threatened to get him out the country behind my back and that he'd tell SS I was an unfit mother I packed a bag quickly, left the house and phoned for a taxi to take me back to my parents who lived 300 miles away at the time. Luckily I had the cash for it. Him and his family seem to have more mental power over you which is worrying. Get to the police now, please. Just get out. I really fear this is not going well.

IneedAsockamnesty Mon 06-May-13 12:23:24

Have you left your son with them to go visiting your mum who you hardly see so obviously also hardly sees her grandson?

TwoSugarsWithLotsOfMilk Mon 06-May-13 16:18:49

Oh nonono he's with me please don't think I've left him!!

TwoSugarsWithLotsOfMilk Mon 06-May-13 16:20:18

I'm with my mother on way back. Tomorrow she'll help me with WA etc. Will keep people updated.

WhiteBirdBlueSky Mon 06-May-13 16:40:58

That sounds great. thanks

IneedAsockamnesty Mon 06-May-13 16:49:32

If your mums with you can she not put your belongings in her car ( if she has one) and walk out the door with you?

Even if you get everything you need with your mum around to witness they can lie about anything you have done and accuse you of anything and they are not going to bully you with her there.

Just walk out the door with her you can use her phone to call WA you do not have to be near the area you are fleeing to use them you can call from anywhere. You don't need to be found a refuge bed in your home area its better to be well away.

If WA for what ever reason can't find you a bed then PM me and I will find you one.

Ad with your mum there she can talk for you don't tell the, where you are going or anything just that you will be in touch.and leave it at that.

TwoSugarsWithLotsOfMilk Mon 06-May-13 17:14:41

Mum met us in place halfway between the two locations. Was beach so I packed PLENTY under the guise of "what if he goes in the ocean?". Got clothes for both, nappies, my BC, wet wipes, phone charger, his favourite toys and a few of my books. We're now at her house, way out of P's reach.

What do I do with regard to location? For the last two years it's been both my and DS's life, so do I try and find a place near where I was? Or do I start afresh halfway between the two places? Or do I stay around my mothers?

I am so so relieved to read this update.

TwoSugarsWithLotsOfMilk Mon 06-May-13 17:18:33

Or do I save up, get a passport and leave for another flamin' country!

YoniMeKateMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 06-May-13 17:33:27

Hi all,

We're going to move this thread to relationships, at the request of the OP.

StanleyLambchop Mon 06-May-13 17:33:43

Glad you are safely away! For now I would not worry about the location. Just give yourself some breathing space. Relax and be with your son. You can start planning your new life tomorrow.

DuchessFanny Mon 06-May-13 17:51:56

Never been so relieved to read an update ! I'd suggest staying near your mothers .. More support for if/when you may need it !
Well done and good luck !!!

SugarPasteGreyhound Mon 06-May-13 18:19:36

If you are happy to and you have a good relationship with her, then I would suggest you stay near your mum. If not then I would suggest you move and get as much distance as you feel comfortable with.

The absolute priority must be that you see Women's Aid and also a solicitor. It's vital that you Btell them that your ExP and his parents were trying to separate you from your son, so that you can get a residency order sorted out ASAP.

Most of all, well done. You have been very brave and very strong. You've done the hardest part - the rest of your life starts now.

thank you for updating (was worried) and so so glad you are getting away.

i would suggest staying near your mum too for the extra support as you say you have no one around.

i am shocked... and also not shocked iyswim about them keeping you there against your will. apalling behaviour.

remember to take important paperwork, documents etc... everything else is replacable

im in wales too (though im in the city) i can only imagine what its like where you are. i know of many places where the community tend to stick together no matter what and only talk in the native language. it must be so hard sad

IneedAsockamnesty Mon 06-May-13 20:23:38

Is your mum offering to put you up?

From a location point of view I would look for somewhere near your mums but not the same town,it will be harder for them to find you that way.

Oh and good move, your away from them now and have removed all the power they had.im will eat my hat if your health does not start to improve.

IneedAsockamnesty Mon 06-May-13 20:25:49

Oh and remember when you are settled he has to find you first before he can do anything. Don't contact him do not tell him where you are and don't make it easy for him.

Zorra Mon 06-May-13 20:33:03

Well done you! Stay strong, you've made the right decision.

fergoose Mon 06-May-13 20:39:28

don't agree to anything, he will not get full custody. But if I were you I would be speaking to Women's Aid, Health Visitor and anyone else official and tell them what he is doing. Get it all on record. You never know when you may need professional back up in future.

Then get the hell away from him. And be very careful, I would not trust his parents at all. They may say the right things to you at the moment, but they could turn or change once you have gone. So don't tell them anything.

TwoSugarsWithLotsOfMilk Mon 06-May-13 20:40:28

I'm terrified.

Every decision I've ever made hasn't actually been made by me. It's been made by everyone else. My mother, my boyfriends, my boyfriends mothers, my estranged father, my grandfather........

What if I'm not a fit parent?!

fergoose Mon 06-May-13 20:43:09

You have shown today that you are a fit parent! The rest will take care of itself in the fullness of time. You will be fine - you have shown bravery to get to where you are now. Just speak to as many authorities as you can, take any help or advice offered, and you will be grand.

SugarPasteGreyhound Mon 06-May-13 20:45:50

You are. I know it's scary but you CAN do this. Women's aid can help you - not just the practicalities but also emotionally as well. You have lots to think about right now, but when things are a little less frantic, have a look at their freedom programme.

TwoSugarsWithLotsOfMilk Mon 06-May-13 22:11:55

I'm so goddamn scared. Put DS to bed and he asked where Daddy was. I almost cried there and then. What if I can't handle being a single parent? What if I'm not strong enough? What if he finds me? What if he agrees to everything and then on his first visit takes DS?

I'm trying to get all of these thoughts out of my head, because I have such a long day ahead of me tomorrow. But I just can't.

Does anyone have experience of these situations?? I need to know what's going to happen to me and to DS when I go to a refuge. I have no money, I have no nappies. I have no food. I have almost nothing except for some clothes and books and a toy or two.

IneedAsockamnesty Mon 06-May-13 23:27:45

That's why you don't even ask him to agree to anything. You wait until he takes you to court and you have a order saying he has to bring him back.

When you go into a refuge there will be a member of staff whose job it is to sort out benefit paperwork and info with you this includes...

The form for Housing benefit so they pay for the refuge
Helping you with making appointments to claim dwp benefits.
They will also obtain a food bank box for you.

But if you want you can make a claim yourself tomorrow this tells you how
https://www.gov.uk/income-support/overview

First thing tomorrow morning phone child benefit the number is 0300 200 3100. Tell them you have moved explain you are staying with family untill a refuge space can be found.

Do you have your own bank account that only you can access? Make sure child benefit have those account details,if you don't have one already open one tomorrow.you will need one to receive payments.

If your ex claimed any tax credits for ds you need to tell them ds is no longer resident with him this needs doing tomorrow morning their number is 0345 300 3900

badtime Mon 06-May-13 23:28:20

TwoSugars, if you have never been able to make decisions before, you should be even more proud of how quickly you managed to extricate yourself from your partner's (and his family's) clutches.

You will without question be a better parent away from them than you would be around them, as they won't be around to make you doubt yourself.

I would suggest that you seek out some sort of counselling to work on your self-esteem.

Bogeyface Mon 06-May-13 23:36:40

For a start, money. You can claim income support and tax credits so you wont be penniless. Second, refuges are used to taking in women with far less than you have (think arriving battered in night clothes and nothing else) which is why they are always fund raising to buy clothes, toys and essentials. They will not see you short of anything. Third, and most important......
....by removing your son from an unhealthy and abusive environment (yes, the way they are trying to bully and manipulate is abusive) you have proven without a doubt that you are a good mother.

You have not been allowed to find your feet as other people have taken over but when it mattered, when the shit hit the fan and you had a choice between doing what was right and doing what was easy, you chose to do what was right even though it was the harder path.

You can do this, I know it and deep down so do you. A weak woman wouldnt have done what you did, she would have rolled over and given in to the bullying. You will cope and better than that, you will cope WELL.

You have done so well. I feel a sense of fierce pride in you that despite the shit, you have said "Fuck you" to your abusers and got yourself and your son free. Rejoice in your strength, you should be very very proud smile

Hugs xx

badtime Tue 07-May-13 12:58:49

How are you today, TwoSugars?

I hope you've managed to make a few calls, and your mind has been set at rest a little.

beachyhead Tue 07-May-13 14:07:22

Well done Twosugars...

TwoSugarsWithLotsOfMilk Tue 07-May-13 17:10:11

I'm fine, all.

I'm in refuge, halfway between mum and ex-p. Have settled in alright, tomorrow it's sorting out benefits. Thanks to all who supported me, PM me if you're willing to be an ear for me after this thread is over :-) can do with all the friends I can grab right now!

Ex-P has been told, and been told not to contact me. And he hasn't yet.

Thank you, everyone xxxxx

ladyjadie Tue 07-May-13 17:14:37

Nice one TwoSugars, just had to de-lurk to say that. You've been really strong doing this despite being (naturally) scared!

Badvoc Tue 07-May-13 17:52:05

Been following your thread.
Wishing you all the best for your future x

SugarPasteGreyhound Tue 07-May-13 18:14:59

So glad to hear you are OK. Just take each day at a time <hugs>

Hissy Tue 07-May-13 19:31:48

Amazingly well done! Stick with it, keep posting, you will need support, we here anytime!

TwoSugarsWithLotsOfMilk Wed 08-May-13 07:32:42

Second day in refuge, and I've woken up raring to start making a new life. How bizarre! I'm not normally such a get-up-and-go person...

Wowserz129 Wed 08-May-13 08:06:03

Well done two sugars! You will be fine on your own. You will have benefits which will cover the basics and hopefully it won't be too late to sort out a LHA house. I would also be very cautious about what happens with contact arrangements later on. He sounds like the type of man who would agree to weekends but then not give DC back. You sound far better off without!

MarinaIvy Wed 08-May-13 08:18:05

I disagree, twosugars, you probably are a get-up-&-go sort of person, but the toxic environment sapped it out of you for a while. Now you're back. It will probably fluctuate: some days may feel draining and tedious, but overall you'll get stronger and happier and healthier every day! And DC will flourish.

As to location, I'm adding my vote to 'away from abusers'; you've done too much for their convenience already. Closer to your mum good, at least for now while you 'find yourseld' (cliché, but it works), then go where you'll be Inspired.

I'll try to PM you with my number later (on phone now), but couldn't lurk no mo - had to say I think you're brilliant!

foslady Wed 08-May-13 17:19:37

Just found this again - congratulations Two, welcome to the beginning of you and ds's new life - one where you are free to be happy, free to be you. Yes it's a bit scary all the unknown, but it WILL be worth it.

So pleased you've done this for both of you - can you imagine what kind of a distorted view of relationships ds would have had growing up in that kind of toxic atmosphere?

flowers

IneedAsockamnesty Wed 08-May-13 19:05:36

Its quite rare for a person to impress me with the speed of their actions.

Op you have. Well done xx

Well done TwoSugars, you go girl!

b4bunnies Wed 08-May-13 21:18:28

well done and jolly good luck for your new life.

StuntGirl Thu 09-May-13 01:39:36

I'm glad to hear you got away from that awful man and his family twosugars smile

AThingInYourLife Thu 09-May-13 02:15:58

Well done TwoSugars smile

have just caught up!

well done twosugars. i hope its going ok. welcome to freedom grin

Tabliope Mon 13-May-13 08:48:44

TwoSugars. I lost the thread and so glad I found it again. You've done so well. I was really worried about you and your situation. The refuge won't be forever. Your ex will need to start paying some maintenance. Have you gone to the CSA yet? Get those wheels in motion as they can take a while to sort things out. Stay strong. Life will be better. You might not have much but to me it would be worth its weight in gold not to be humiliated anymore by this man and to be able to sleep peacefully at night not worrying that he'd try and force me out of my DS's life. Well done. You're a strong person. Just remember your current situation is not forever.

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