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Has anyone been left by their (Ex)H, to bring up their DCs alone, and actually years later realised they are glad that he went?

(251 Posts)
LineRunner Tue 30-Apr-13 21:26:50

That's it really.

After a couple of years on MN, I am realising that he might have done me a favour.

He was different towards me after we got married. (DD was just a few months old.) He encouraged me to drop my career. He had at least two affairs, one when I was 7 months pregnant with DS who was born prematurely. ExH is a fucking knob.

He told me he was leaving me as he was sitting on the sofa, and I said 'Pack a bag and go.' He did and has behaved ever since like I threw him out. (He went to OW #2.)

Yet he hates me.

I was meant to beg him to stay, right?

Otherwise I cannot make sense of the ten years of utter hatred he has expressed towards me, through at least five girlfriends/partners, that frankly I am now sick of, as the DCs have turned 15 and 17.

<have wanted to post this for ages.>

meglet Tue 30-Apr-13 21:30:42

Do you mean he is still giving you abuse after 10yrs?

FWIW I kicked XP out 4yrs ago and I never so much as shed a tear. We are better off without him and he hasn't seen the dc's in 4yrs, I intend to keep it that way.

kingbeat23 Tue 30-Apr-13 21:31:17

I've had 3 years of being single and no contact. Best thing fucking ever.

He was an abusive wanker and dd and I have a fantastic life together. Yes it's hard and sometimes lonely but given the option of him staying I know which I'd choose! wink

LineRunner Tue 30-Apr-13 21:40:58

I just don't understand why he hates me so much. Every email, every conversation about the DCs, has been like I'm something he scrapes off the bottom off his shoe.

He left me. So why?

LineRunner Tue 30-Apr-13 21:43:33

meglet yes I do have to have minimal contact with him because of the DCs. But over that ten years he has reported me to SS (malicious) and taken out contact orders he doesn't even stick to (stress).

Spero Tue 30-Apr-13 21:45:50

I read somewhere that if people feel guilty and know they have treated you like shit, they are more likely to then behave badly towards you as otherwise they have to acknowledge what a shit they have been, i.e. it is all about making YOU the bad person therefore they don't have to account for themselves.

That makes some kind of sense, but frankly, who cares? you are his childrens' mother, you have bought them up and if he can't give you even grudging respect for that he is simply a knobber and not worth your head space.

LineRunner Tue 30-Apr-13 21:49:02

kingbeat My ExH has contact seemingly when it suits him. You know, those sort of 'polite' emails and texts that men do when they think they are being Kofi Annan but they are actually just being a twat.

'Following your decision to make a decision to decide to approach the Child Support Agency to support your decision, the fabric of my life is now ruined which will deleteriously affect the lives of our wonderful children.... which is of course your sole decision...'

That kind of thing.

smokinaces Tue 30-Apr-13 21:49:40

Yes me! Ex left out the blue four years ago. I have a wonderful life me and the kids now, a lovely house, great job, I've lost weight, gained independence and friends and am happy. He may have the girlfriend and new child, but he's still struggling in all other areas. I am definitely a better person for having him gone. I see him every week when we handover the kids, and every week cheer. Biggest favour he ever did me.

BasilBabyEater Tue 30-Apr-13 21:49:54

He's doing all this harassment for revenge.

You stepped out of line, you uppity woman.

He will never forgive you for that.

Because he is mad. He's a bitter unhappy man who needs someone else to blame for his unhappiness and you're his candidate. You've become his candidate because of your failure to be what he wanted you to be - a woman he could control.

FannyBazaar Tue 30-Apr-13 21:50:07

Because he's had at least 5 girlfriends/partners and none of them have turned out to be better than you like he hoped and there he is drifting from one to the other seeking something better than what he threw away and finding out he was wrong and you, who was expected to wither on your own have thrived and are happy. That must feel like a slap in the face to him.

I too have a miserable ex who can barely bring himself to speak to me and has to resort to kicking up a fuss if I am 5 2 minutes late to collect DC just to prove how useless I am.

LineRunner Tue 30-Apr-13 21:50:36

Oh Spero tell me more. If I hadnt found MN I'd still be wondering what I'd done wrong.

BasilBabyEater Tue 30-Apr-13 21:51:12

And also possibly what Spero said, which is a more charitable interpretation and also happens a bit.

LineRunner Tue 30-Apr-13 21:55:07

smokinaces that's what I was thinking. Maybe sometimes he has to go first, and then you look around and think, 'I am breathing a sigh of relief here.'

Even though it takes a long time to realise that, sometimes.

ivykaty44 Tue 30-Apr-13 21:58:35

Oh yes - so glad and sadly the other night dd1 said I am so glad you are not married to my dad and we don't have to have him fucking our lives up sad

it took me a few months

he asked to come back after 10 months grin and I said you what ? get stuffed life is good now piss off

LineRunner Tue 30-Apr-13 21:58:49

basil I do wonder if he's a bit crackers sometimes.

His utter hatred of me is dripping and seems, frankly, insane. Almost beyond normal guilt. It's been over ten bloody years.

My friend (poor sod who has heard it all) says he is bitter. But about what? My life has been incredibly hard for ten years.

LineRunner Tue 30-Apr-13 22:01:53

FannyBazaar He's meant to marrying the latest one but has told DD they can't afford it because of his child support payments.

It's like a Max Branning moment.

Spero Tue 30-Apr-13 22:02:12

Someone who can hang on to bitterness for so long, you are definitely well rid.

Even if you were the Devil Woman and author of all his woes - unlikely - at some point the healthy and emotionally continent person decides enough is enough and moves on.

I will never be friends with my ex but I no longer have imaginary arguments with him in my head - ok, hardly ever now - and I certainly don't continue to wank on about him to my friends. He is a git, I made a massive mistake, its over and that is for the best.

I think for your ex it must be about projection. He has fucked up his life and he can't possibly be to blame, because he is such a great person. So someone has to be responsible.

I also read that the most dangerous lies are the ones we tell ourselves. Because there is no one to give us another perspective. I always remember that phrase and try to be very honest with myself about my motivations for what I do.

Perhaps not the same but I am very glad that I was not brought up by my father. I would be a very different person, I think.

Moanranger Tue 30-Apr-13 22:07:46

LR but that would assume your husband is logical, can see two sides to the story, has empathy, etc. clearly not. He is self-absorbed, self-pitying & at some level stuck.
I do agree with Spero though re guilt. I am going through this with my STBXH and am sure it is guilt, and partly to deflect attention away from him & on to me, so he does not have to think about what a shit he is.
Well. Rid. Of.

LineRunner Tue 30-Apr-13 22:09:56

I know what you are saying, TCTeuchT. If my (ex)H hadn't left, I realise that with hindsight I wouldn't particularly have wanted him and his arseholeiness around the DCs. IYSWIM.

My first exH left when DD was a few months old, for OW, and I endured 3 years of those hideous emails, texts, calls, letters, court hearings during that time, he and OW were even cautioned for harrassment. Then, just like that, he disappeared out of our lives. I was also wondering WHY there was such bitterness and nastiness, given he had left me for his OW. Since DD was 3.5 and DS was 4, there has been no contact at all - it's like he just gave up on the games he was playing with me, and gave up on being a dad.

I picked myself up, got a decent career going, devoted time to my interests, and have a couple of gorgeous, loving DCs now, and am really glad that he went.

Unfortunately, the DH I thought was my happy ending has very recently left, and I am 27 weeks pg with our much wanted and tried for baby. I am hoping that he doesn't act like exH. It is hard enough coping with the pg (and I'm ill with it), and the emotional side of things, without worrying about whether he will do the misplaced-guilt/self justification thing that it seems, from just the few replies here, is all too common.

I hope that in a few years I can say that I am really glad he left, and that I and the DCs are all so much better off as a result smile

Spero Tue 30-Apr-13 22:15:10

Sorry waves, that sounds mighty shite.

But if someone can leave you in such circs I really think you are better off without them. You know you have the strength to get through it.

LineRunner Tue 30-Apr-13 22:19:00

Spero and Moanranger, thanks for your posts. I suppose I have been thinking the same recently, about the guilt, but I am still a bit puzzled about how does a man let it drag on for over a decade?

Then I feel feel guilty for picking him in the first place.

When he did get up off the sofa, pack him bag and leave, he said he would kill me if I let any harm come to the DCs. I felt that I was staring at a monster. I had a solicitor write to him to remind him of that threat - he denied it.

So why does he hate me? Why hasn't he ever said, sorry, thanks for bringing up the DCs on your own so well, is there anything you need, how are you all? Why this ghastly, nasty, icy, vile stand-off? The DCs are not happy at all.

kingbeat23 Tue 30-Apr-13 22:20:54

Linerunner, it ended up getting a court order for no contact whatsoever

I felt bad for ages thinking my dd won't know her dad or have the same loving parental relationship that I did growing up, but the alternative was so awful my guilt has now turned to joy.

You're doing fine, you will be fine and your kids will understand (albeit maybe at a later date) x

Spero Tue 30-Apr-13 22:23:13

A decade is nothing! I have met people who hung on to their bitterness for a whole lifetime. A truly horrible place to be.

I guess some peoples brains are just wired differently. Or it takes enormous courage to take responsibility for who you are and the decisions you make. Some people would rather divert their energies into avoiding that confrontation with who they really are, in all their weakness and cowardice.

And once you have spent a couple of years doing this, I guess it must get harder and harder to turn the ship around.

But seriously, this is NOT your problem. Well, apart from malicious reports to SS.

Try to pity him. At some point he may have to confront who he is. I wouldn't want to be in his shoes at that moment.

LineRunner Tue 30-Apr-13 22:23:26

wavesandsmiles that does indeed sound a bit pile of utter crap. So sorry. Do you think he'll be back?

Spero Tue 30-Apr-13 22:25:54

And no point in feeling 'guilty' for 'picking' him. You were different then, less experience of life, he was probably different too, hadn't had the chance to fuck much up so could present as a 'nicer' more 'genuine' person.

My ex clearly did have good qualities and that is what I latched onto. But they were superficially good - his core was weak and rotten but you don't get to find that out until he is tested. It is easy to cover that up with superficial charm and niceness.

Suffering doesn't create character - it reveals it. Another of my favourite phrases.

LineRunner Tue 30-Apr-13 22:26:04

spero I think I am just starting to get angry because the DCs are now 17 and 15 and my ExH can't hurt me any more with threats of SS and court hearings.


Spero Tue 30-Apr-13 22:27:45

Anger is fine. Just don't let it consume you. The best revenge is a life well lived.

(I have a notebook where I collect sayings. This might be quite sad but I enjoy it)

Oldrichandgrateful Tue 30-Apr-13 22:29:31

My Ex left for me for my friend when my DS was two.

He was an emotional abuser - I could never to anything right. The house was a pigsty, the meals I cooked were dreadful, I was fat, I was ugly - no man but him would want me, the way I did the dishes was wrong, the way I divided the whites and darks for the washing was wrong!! I could go on!! I let him treat me like dirt.

After he left, my DS and I had a totally brilliant life and we don't miss the Ex at all.

I learned than when the Ex was in one of his cruel moods, I just would agree with everything he said and it completely took the wind out of his sails.

My Ex hates me because he can't upset me anymore. Your Ex is bitter and hates you because you don't need him, survived in spite of him and his actions.

Don't waste anymore of your time wondering why he behaves the way he does - you do not have control of other people and their feelings - but you can change the way you react to them.

Let him hate you - his problem - not yours.

I'm glad he left me now too and we do get on better divorced, than when we were married tbh.

So glad we're over now but at the time, I wouldn't have believed you, that 3 years on, I'd feel this way.

olgaga Tue 30-Apr-13 22:34:49

Take a look at at this - I'm sure it'll strike a chord with most of you!

The best revenge is a life well lived - what a great saying!

Line - glad exH can't hurt you with the court/SS threats anymore. Maybe you are feeling some kind of release as a result, and all of a sudden, you are able to fully process the last decade? And no, my "new" exH won't be back. He's been an utter sod - and already started on the "you'd best get a good solicitor if you think that exclusive breast feeding is going to interrupt my rights to see my baby". Not enough expletives to describe how I feel about him when I'm not crying my eyes out

Well done to you for putting up with 10 years of that hideous behaviour. Be proud of yourself.

LineRunner Tue 30-Apr-13 22:36:07

So is my problem ... I don't want him to hate me? (Because I don't think I deserve it.)

Help me <whimpers>

I would be so good with this when it's someone else but when it's me I'm useless.

And thank you, everyone.

LineRunner Tue 30-Apr-13 22:40:16

Oh, olgaga. Just read one paragraph of that and I'm crying.

And yes, waves, it has taken a decade to allow me to even start to process this.

I am a good person. I didn't deserve this. My own mother and his parents bought into the 'mad ex wife' drama.

I felt like I've done well to keep my sanity tbh.

Spero Tue 30-Apr-13 22:42:52

Good link!

He doesn't hate YOU. He is doing this to avoid hating himself.

Seriously, try to feel sorry for him. What must it be like, dragging this around every day?

I don't judge success or failure in life by big salary, nice house etc but by the strength and trueness of the connections you build with others. He has utterly failed in this regard.

Oldrichandgrateful Tue 30-Apr-13 22:43:24

olgaga - it does strike a cord!!

My Ex tried to divorce me on the grounds that I had abandoned him - he seemed to have forgotton to mention to his solicitor that he left OUR home and ran off with my friend!

gettingeasiernow Tue 30-Apr-13 22:45:04

That would be me. Utterly devastated when he left me with a five week old ds, after SIX miscarriages, and I learned from the neighbour no less of all the women he'd had back to our flat whilst I was pregnant and at work. It's been a long journey to understand how I could be so besotted with such a total knob. Ten years later, happily married to a kind wonderful man, and so grateful for my life. Think I would always have been too downtrodden to leave, so good that he revealed his true colours and brought about the turning point. At some deep level, I knew he was a complete loser, but love makes you want to see the best in them.

LineRunner Tue 30-Apr-13 22:52:16

On that link, the 'Healing Place' says to stop trying to get any acknowledgment or apology.

I guess that's pretty important. He's never going to say sorry, or thanks, or even 'meh'.

olgaga Tue 30-Apr-13 22:56:34

The way you all conduct yourselves, the way you manage and carry on, the reserves you have had to call upon - you may not get any credit for it, you may never get any credit for it!

Nevertheless you know what you've been through and you should be proud of what you have achieved despite such adversity.

flowers to you all.

Spero Tue 30-Apr-13 22:58:02

Re apology and acknowledgment o god yes. Spent FIVE years trying to get that. Big fat waste of my time.

LineRunner Tue 30-Apr-13 22:59:12

OldRichandGrateful How soon did you realise you were glad he had left? What helped you realise that?

I am quite surprised it has taken me so long to 'get it' deep down inside, properly, that my H was no good for me.

LineRunner Tue 30-Apr-13 23:07:17

Hello MomeRaths. The problem is that after my (Ex)H left, he barely speaks to me. Not for over ten years.

This is what defeats me:

Day after Christmas: Make love, he say he loves me, everything fine with two young DC having fun with their mummy and daddy and their presents.

Day after that: Calmly, totally calmly, 'I'm leaving you.'

Day after that: He calls all relatives to say I am mad, I have been mentally abusing him, there is no-one else involved [he has already moved in with OW]. My own mother believes him.

Next ten years: Difficult.

LineRunner Tue 30-Apr-13 23:12:44

And because of MN, I have finally seen The Script.

OldRichandGrateful Tue 30-Apr-13 23:34:16

LineRunner - my Ex left me on my birthday - I came home from work and saw DS car seat in the kitchen. DS was left with my next door neighbour!

It took me a good couple of years to come to terms with it all. I was so angry with the twunt for just dumping my DS and going off with the OW.

I began to realise was a useless piece of shit he was and my DS and I deserved better. Every now and then Ex would try his old tricks, but once I saw him for the pathetic excuse for a husband and father he was, he lost all power over me. I just couldn't be bothered to give a shit about him.

My apathy and dismissive attitude drove him mad! But instead of being glad that I had pissed him off - I just couldn't and still can't raise any energy to engage with him and his drama.

It's easy for me to say ignore him - but honestly - it's the best thing you can do.

I woke up one morning after a couple of years on our own, with DS who had climbed into bed with me. We were watching cartoons and eating Jaffa cakes. My Ex wouldn't have allowed that to happen. It was then I realised how far me and DS had come and how happy we were.

It will happen to you - promise!

LineRunner Tue 30-Apr-13 23:41:33

Oh yes, OldRich you are right about having the memories of things that the Ex wouldn't have allowed to happen.

DCs jumping off the chest of drawers onto me lying on the bed laughing to the sound of 'Power Ballads 2005';

DCs not liking a dinner and being able to leave it, or being 'allowed' a vegetarian phase.

OldRichandGrateful Tue 30-Apr-13 23:50:24

As we were eating the Jaffa cakes, Line, I was thinking how naughty we were being ! I was 32 for goodness sake! A grown up! I can do what I like!

"Power Ballads 2005" - Mr Mister or Tina Turner?!

NicknameTaken Wed 01-May-13 09:48:38

LineRunner, congrats on your new liberation!

It is almost exactly four years since I left my ex to go to a refuge as a result of his abuse. We're currently in court-ordered mediation, and he spent the entire first session dwelling on my evilness in leaving him and "stealing" dd. He totally refused to engage with any discussion about how to make the current arrangements work better or how to adjust them. He really did seem stuck in May 2009.

I'm so sick of the ongoing drama. I don't mind so much that he makes me out to be the pantomime villain so he can be the pantomime hero (--more like Widow Twankey--) but I'm stick to the back teeth of him feeding this narrative to dd(5).

Anyway, on the subject of guilt for picking badly, there's a quote from Maya Angelou: "We did what we did, knowing what we did. And when we knew better, we did better".

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 01-May-13 10:58:17

He doesn't hate you... not you personally, anyway. He hates what you represent which is a strong, independent example of womankind. Someone who hasn't crumbled in his absence and hasn't begged him to return. When you said it turned sour after the arrival of your first baby that's pretty consistent with abusive types. They prey on the vulnerability of a new mother in order to get the whip hand, being affectionate one minute and cold the next, making demands (like giving up work) to isolate you, being manipulative and swearing black is white. All to get in control. Like all bullies they have to 'win' in this way in order to make up for being inadequate cowards

This one 'lost'.... and that's what he resents. He's still trying to pull the emotionally abusive stunts... guilt-tripping about maintenance etc. All the time you take no notice it will infuriate him no end. Keep up the good work smile

WhiteBirdBlueSky Wed 01-May-13 11:23:37

those sort of 'polite' emails and texts that men do when they think they are being Kofi Annan but they are actually just being a twat.

I'd probably say LOL if I were ten years younger!


Jengnr Wed 01-May-13 11:39:02

What the fuck is your Mum playing at Linerunner?

I'd be more bothered about that, ex is clearly a knob.

ItsYoniYappy Wed 01-May-13 11:43:49

Yeah, well mine was confusing, I had him leave then 'he changed' hmm so came back then he found OW and moved out with her.

I'm so grateful to her and have told her so.

She thinks I'm taking the piss, I'm being deadly serious, I might have been stuck with him for life.

Close call tbh

LineRunner Wed 01-May-13 12:49:22

Oh thank you all for responding to me. Really thank you. Just catching up reading your posts ....

OldRich I recall 'Alone' by Heart featuring a lot - the bit where the snare drums lead into an instrumental break would be where they'd launch themselves off the top of the furniture onto the bed. smile

LineRunner Wed 01-May-13 13:08:57

NicknameTaken Mediation is a pile of shit I reckon if it's with a former partner looking for a guilt-free ride to a better financial deal / easier parenting deal. It's just an extension of the abuse / control. Can you 'shuttle' instead?

I had one mediation session after ExH had left me and the DCs high and dry - it was appalling. Ex was so pompous, and I was still in the midst of the cognitive earthquake, and all he wanted was to know about money, money, money because 'This relationship was never going to work', like it was my fault he started shagging the OW and walked out and left his kids.

The mediator was a wimpy bloke who was pathetic and I started crying and I said I was leaving and not coming back.

That got held against me for the next 12 years as well. Fancy, crying, just because my life was in tatters.

Thanks for the MA quote. You and spero are filling my mind with better words each day! smile

Spero Wed 01-May-13 13:26:35

That is very similar to how my mediation went....

Looking back, and having trained now as a mediator, I am appalled at the mediator for ever allowing it to go ahead. I made it clear at the initial meeting I didn't see how we could possibly mediate as he was refusing to answer basic questions about how much maintenance he would pay and this refusal had gone on for six months... I suspect they just wanted the £270 per head we were paying!

I also cried and walked out but I don't care if he holds that against me as it was a bloody stupid idea - no mediation should take place if one party is withholding information from another.

I am quite sceptical about mediation in family cases - as you say one party often feels their life is in tatters and it is quite difficult to put on a mediation hat when emotions run so high.

NicknameTaken Wed 01-May-13 13:42:06

I have very little hope of any positive outcome from the mediation. There are a couple of practical bits and pieces around handovers that it would be useful to agree, so I'll give it another go, but I doubt we'll get anywhere.

I feel stuck with this mediation because it's court-ordered. I've refused before, and at every opportunity my ex waves the refusal letters around and uses them as evidence that I'm not being cooperative. I do feel like past refusals to attend mediation have counted against me.

On the positive side, the mediators (there are two present) seem very alert to the dynamic. I feel as if they're are almost drawing his fire away from me. They look at him almost incredulously when I (or they) say something perfectly reasonable and it sends him off into a rant.

As I left him four years ago, I also feel rather more detached from him and his power-plays. In your excellent phrase, Line, the "cognitive earthquake" has died away.

wol1968 Wed 01-May-13 14:07:24

My MIL's dad was an abusive, cruel, gambling, drinking shit of a man. My MIL had to run to nieghbours more than once when he was beating up her mum. Her mum left and returned to him many times, disrupting her daughters' education in the process (not to mention their emotional well-being sad), but he left her in the end. She had nothing except her daughters, and had to get whatever benefits were around for women in her position in the 1950's, but buggering off was the best thing he ever did for her.

whitesugar Wed 01-May-13 14:22:28

Line runner seriously were you married to my EXH? Joking but seriously that Kofi Annan approach is him!. my DC are 16 & 14. I left XH when pregnant with DS. He hates me with a passion & after 14 years shows no sign of letting up. It really is mind boggling. I have no doubt that the last ten years have been hard for you. like everyone says he has to hate you so that he can face himself in the mirror.

EXH assaulted DC s a while ago & police and SS got involved. Had to go to meeting with social workers, police, school reps & at the meeting XH said he has always had concerns about my parenting & thinks I need monitoring. He hasn't paid one penny towards them, is violent and is a selfish prick. The most staggering thing is because he was being K Annan they all believed him. Strangely he thinks it's ok for their crap mother to rear his kids & pay for everything they need.

All I can say is you really are not alone! I agreed to mediation once & when I said something he didn't like he lost his cool. The social workers both women, were distinctly unimpressed, and saw the real him. Needless to say we didn't go back. SS asked me to give it another go but I told them I would never mediate with that nutcase. I can't wait until DC are adults & I will struggle to remember his name. STAY STRONG x

LineRunner Wed 01-May-13 16:04:28

Cogito Yes, my gut tells me the best response to him now is no response. Because I don't have to respond. His power - the power to threaten to try to take my children away from me - is gone.

I have just been out with a friend for a nice chat and a drink (because I can!) She said, 'Because you are such a good mother he has been able to be such a crap father.' That after only one Chardonnay!

Spero Wed 01-May-13 16:09:23

I love that line about being a good mother to allow him to be a crap father. I fully intend to steal it and apply it to myself.

LineRunner Wed 01-May-13 16:27:46

WhiteBird There should be a 'Best Of - My Ex Thinks He's Kofi Annan But He Is Actually A Twat' compilation thread on MN one day.

'Dear Soon-To-Be ExWife,
Your sad reluctance to end the relationship at a time and convenience of my choosing reflects, I feel with some regret, very poorly on your ability to make the correct choices on the part of our wonderful, wonderful children whom I have left with you. Therefore it is again with some very considerable regret that my new partner and I feel we have no option but to consider reporting you to social services should you not adhere to our reasonable plan for our completely new and remarkably re-written future.
Yours, your actual husband.'

LineRunner Wed 01-May-13 16:39:08

Jengnr Well, my mother. That's a whole other Talk Board thread.

I have behaved in ways towards her of which I am not at all proud, but the bottom line is she is another one whose withdrawal from me was probably a blessing in disguise. I haven't chased after her for five years and I'm not going to now.

I do not want to become her. I am fearful I will. 'Choose me or your bloody father.'

Funnily enough she left him and he feels he had a lucky escape. He was meant to beg for her to come back, I think. She is very bitter, and I have tried and tried with her but she won't be happy till I hate him too, and I cannot give her that.

OldRichandGrateful Wed 01-May-13 17:43:13

You are right Line. He has no power over you anymore because he can't take your DC from you or threaten you with SS. How liberating!!

My Ex used to threaten me all the time with coming over and taking DS away because I was such a crap parent. One day, I told him to do it. He didn't come over of course. He didn't actually want the responsibility of looking after DS. I had called his bluff and the power dynamic shifted that day.

Makes me smile thinking about it now!! Twat!!

LineRunner Wed 01-May-13 17:52:49

ItsYoniYappy I feel sorry for his current OH. I really do. But if I told her that they would assume I was 'jealous' or some crap like that.

But I want to tell her to run for the hills.

He has already had her sell her property.

akaWisey Wed 01-May-13 17:55:23

This thread is really interesting to me.

How about this for a curve ball then? I have absolutely NO IDEA how my ex feels about me.

He gives nothing away whatsoever!

LineRunner Wed 01-May-13 17:58:26

akaWisey If we hadn't had children I guess I wouldn't have the slightest relationship with my Ex, nor would I want to have, frankly.

Unfortunately I have to, because we do have DCs, and he - for some reason - chooses to hate me and let me know it. Hence my 12 years of 'WTF?'

ItsYoniYappy Wed 01-May-13 18:00:06

I feel a bit sorry for OW but not a lot because her 2 DC to her previous relationship are in care as she is with him. She chooses him over her own DC.

I'm not sure I could have done that. She called me one day when he was out is hushed worried voice, asking me to make up a story if he arrived during the call... she wanted to know if when I 'had locked him in the house and he stayed overnight did you kiss him' and she said 'he tells me you would take him back anytime'

I told her I would never ever take him back as he makes me feel physically sick, she doesn't seem to believe me, they detest me, no idea why.

LineRunner Wed 01-May-13 18:03:50

wol1968 You can write a fair description - 'an abusive, cruel, gambling, drinking shit of a man.'

Yes, when someone like that leaves, I guess you bolt the door and thank the angels.

When my particular shit left, I bolted the door and would have thanked the angels except I had to have fucking mediation and divorce lawyers and his OW phoning me and insults about my mothering skills and threats and intimidation and all sorts of shite. And if I can change that for one other woman I would.

LineRunner Wed 01-May-13 21:16:13

whitesugar Sorry you and your DC have had to go through all that.

'Being K Annan' will always be a red flag for me now. And yes, they often do lose their cool eventually when someone says something they can' process in their fake worlds. Mine did it in court.

LineRunner Wed 01-May-13 21:18:14

Sorry the last line of my post to wol doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I mean if I could make things better for someone else in my position in the future I would like to. Not talking about OW per se.

Duh smile

LineRunner Thu 02-May-13 08:43:57

Just to thank everyone again for their help and as a bit of an update, I have started thinking of the Ex in my head as GuiltBoy, and it helps! Takes the power right away from his image.

olgaga Thu 02-May-13 12:01:56

This is a great thread. I love the Kofi Annan comment. I sent this thread to my friend, who regularly receives absurd emails along those lines.

Also like GuiltBoy but prefer GuiltMan tbh. It brings to mind a comical anti-hero, rather like the pathetic F4J types in their fancy dress.

It's no laughing matter really - but this has brought my friend and I some light relief - her settlement was finally achieved last week after two extremely difficult years.

Best of luck to you all.

LineRunner Thu 02-May-13 12:28:27

olgag I hope your friend is doing ok and rising appropriately to the Kofi Anann Email Challenge.

I just ignored the last one he sent me. I am stepping off that bus.

whitesugar Thu 02-May-13 14:03:31

I have kept the KA emails and will publish them one day to give mums a laugh, they are priceless. He joined a creative writing course a few years ago probably to enhance his already amazing writing skills. My kids told me that on the first night he walked into the class there was only one seat available. Sadly for him the one seat was between his XGF who left him when she realised he was not KA, and his next door neighbour with whom he had got into a physical fight cos the neighbour doubted he was KA after EXH attacked him.

He went back the following week probably to read aloud his short story on diplomacy and sat down between 2 empty chairs.

LineRunner Thu 02-May-13 14:14:31

whitesuggar grin

The kids tell me that my Ex now believes that as well as being KA he is also some kind of musical genius, an undiscovered Bono if you will, hiring studios for vanity recordings.

God, I am so well off out of it.

whitesugar Thu 02-May-13 14:34:09

Unbelievable Line, my EXH spends all day playing guitar, prob waiting for some producer to peep through his window and discover him by accident! I hope that laughing at him helps you cope with his feelings of hatred towards you. His feelings are not yours. Let him do his worst. It is reassuring for me to know that other mums have faced this on going venom. I thought that I was unusual being separated for 14 years with no let up on the anger from him. Now that I realise it is not uncommon I can look lightly on it. Glad you posted x

olgaga Thu 02-May-13 14:39:14

Yes she's fine - I do admire her, she's had a terrible time but is so happy now to be moving on finally.

I think it infuriates him that she ignores all the emotional one-upmanship and only ever communicates about factual/practical arrangements.

We've given up hoping he'll get over himself - but she is certainly over him, to the point where she feels the OW has actually done her a favour despite all the difficulty.

I think that's the worst thing for these men, they can't understand how their exw's are able to forge ahead without them.

Shinigami Thu 02-May-13 14:51:34

Vanity recordings?!

He probably thought when he left you everything would fall into place for him. He'd get a recording contract, loads of pg 3 stunners dangling off hi knob etc ... You know because he's so awesome [hmmm]

You are better of without him!

LineRunner Thu 02-May-13 15:34:47

I do think he thought the OW was a bit of a stunna. But he left her after two years.

Spero Thu 02-May-13 16:42:22

Whitesugar that made me larf. Please tell me you are a novelist as I think he would make a brilliant character.

LineRunner Thu 02-May-13 19:03:25

Spero he would, wouldn't he? The very definition of protanganist.

LineRunner Thu 02-May-13 19:03:57

or even protaganist. grin

Joy5 Thu 02-May-13 21:17:38

Spero, thats the mose sensible explanation i've heard to describe my ex's anger towards me for almost two years now, his anger towards me is so extreme, but then so is his behaviour towards me.

Linerunner, after nearly two years of anger from my ex, i no longer see him he waits in the car to collect our sons (when he can be bothered enough to see them), i keep thinking it has to stop soon, but you're 8 years further on then me, and still putting up with it. Think its much healthier to move on with no anger or bitterness, otherwise it will take over the rest of your life. Thats our reward, to move on and be happy, unlike our ex's who will stay so angry and bitter for the rest of their lives.

LineRunner Fri 03-May-13 00:17:30

Joy5 I rather imagine my Ex is at the extreme end of twattery. I do regret letting him control my life through our DCs for so long afer he left, though.

legomom Fri 03-May-13 00:48:31

My xp still of course blames me for everything almost 14 yrs later. On one memorable ocassion he told me he no longer wanted contact with ds during the week (he 'd already stopped seeing ds at wkends due to new gf) as 'it ' was interfering with his social life angry. When I asked WTF do you want me to do then His answer was " I dunno you should have thought of that before splitting up with me!!" and "just put him up for adoption " was another suggestion and if I dared comment I was yet again to shoulder the blame.
He now ignores ds 17 except for a once yearly woe is me birthday card!! Which again you've guessed it my fault for splitting up in 1st place angry angry

LineRunner Fri 03-May-13 16:10:59

legomom, same old story, isn't it? You, by being a good mum, allow the Ex to be a crap dad. We are really caught betwen a rock and hard place. And these Exes exploit this with ridiculous threats and statements like 'just put him up for adoption'.

What kind of men exploit a mother's love for their child to get an emotional kick?

LaQueen Fri 03-May-13 17:15:59

Not me. But one of my best friend's DH, left her for OW - leaving my friend with a 6 and 2 year old.

Initially, my friend was distraught. She had to work a 6 day week, just to keep a roof over their heads, because her DH wasn't working (he was living off his new girlfriend).

But, gradually she got strong again. He was a past master, and turning the tables, and always making her feel guilty. And, he excelled at petty point scoring. But, after a while, rather than crying when he sent his twattish emails, she started getting angry.

She enrolled on a MSC, passed, and got a much better job.

She could afford to get the house refurbished, booked a few holidays, and started to make a life for herself.

10 years later, she's very happy, successful in her new career, she's single but with plenty of friends and very close to her DCs (they think their Dad is a bit of a twat). She's coming over tomorrow, and I can't wait, because she's such good company, and I respect her probably more than anyone else I know.

Her ex-DH, has piddled about doing crappy jobs for the last 10 years. He's getting divorced from the OW, now - and has ended up in a shitty rented flat, in downtown Swindon grin

He hates my friend, for getting on with her life, without him. And, for having the temerity to actually have a good life without him.

He's fucked up his life. He's miserable and bitter and resentful, and bizarrely blames my friend for his current situation. Eventhough they haven't even physically seen each other, in over 4 years hmm

LastTangoInDevonshire Fri 03-May-13 17:59:07

I don't know about realising YEARS later........I heaved a sigh of relief the moment the man and van drove up the road and out of my life!

Spero Fri 03-May-13 18:00:45

Ha ha Swindon!

The mills of god grind slowly, but they grind exceeding small.

themidwife Fri 03-May-13 18:09:58

Same here, my ex was emotionally, physically, sexually & financially abusive towards me while pregnant. After the baby was born I got my gumption back & fought back. He filed for divorce on fictitious grounds when the baby was 6 weeks old & I didn't contest but he wouldn't leave & the abuse continued. The courts made him leave when she was 6 months old after the decree nisi & he begged me to "make the divorce stop". I refused & started a new happy life. He has hated me ever since. That was over 9 years ago. He has had numerous GFs over the years who have clearly been told some crap about me judging by the look on their faces when I meet them.
I just smile & ignore. Smile & ignore.
You know the truth & so does he deep deep down but can't admit it to himself or anyone else.

themidwife Fri 03-May-13 18:15:41

Btw Line - are you sure we weren't married to the same man?! He also took me to court for a contact order he has never stuck to & applied for a penal order (me to be sent to prison) when DD was away with me at a wedding on his contact weekend even though I offered an alternative. The judge wiped the floor with him & awarded costs which fuelled his hatred. I also got those texts & emails for years. I ignored them all. Changed email address. Deleted texts unread. Destroyed letters unopened. The police had a word about harassment & made him stop. I've been married to someone else for almost 5 years!!

LaQueen Fri 03-May-13 18:19:45

Spero exactly grin

As they say The best revenge is a happy life smile

LineRunner Fri 03-May-13 18:34:08

LaQueen My Ex didn't end up in the equivalent of a bedsit in Swindon (more's the pity) but lives pretty well - but only because he's poncing off his current girlfriend who sold her own house to put the deposit down on 'his' new home.

Apart from that - very similar story, especially about him always, always wanting me to feel like the guilty one.

LineRunner Fri 03-May-13 18:41:26

LastTango do you have DCs, do you mind me asking?

LineRunner Fri 03-May-13 18:43:04

In general, I suppose I am wondering how it 'works' in DC's heads to think of your own dad (whom you do love) as a bit of a twat?

I have always assumed that it must be really head-fucking. (Personal experience.)

My own DD is 17 and says she doesn't like being 'caught in the middle' but as I don't want anything at all to do with the bloody man including ever talking or thinking about him, I don't really see what she feels she is in the middle of, other than him moaning on about me every time she sees him. And I think she is old enough to tell him where to stick his opinions.

Spero Fri 03-May-13 19:33:13

It's quite possible to love someone and a the same time think they are a twat or annoying etc.

I think it is only harmful when the parent is really obnoxious or cruel to the child. Then I bet you must feel worried that something is 'wrong' with you - either you share DNA with someone really vile or you are not worth loving if they reject you.

And having one decent, emotionally available parent must be huge protective factor.

macthecatsmum Fri 03-May-13 20:58:15

My sis did-after 20 years of emotional abuse. Luckily her kids-then 17 and 16 told her to pack her bags or they would do it for her. DN, after being thumped regularly, stood up, and BIL realised that he was a foot taller than him-backed down sharp. Financially they struggled, but she eventually got the house and he FO to the other side of the country. Now he has a dicky ticker and no one to care for him. Karma.

legomom Fri 03-May-13 23:43:20

I've struggled to be a good mom thru years of crap emotional blackmail, even my ds 's learning difficulties were blamed on me. Felt like i was being ground down at every opportunity. But it was still me who brought ds to all his appointments and still me who fought for a proper diagnosis of Aspergers for ds.

The very short time i was in a 'relationship with exp i was not allowed to spilt up with him. I was to do as told and not break up the happy family (his words) so happy in fact i had no freedoms and was made feel totally useless if i hadnt made his lunch for work /picked up his shit/ cleaned his work clothes in bath (had no washing machine) while caring singlehandedly with a newborn and home.
I was basically a slave while he played video games when not working.

Ds still feels lost and has so many unanswered questions.

But im so glad to be free still feels so hard to talk about it tho 3 awful years together and then 14 yrs later i still gets knots in my stomach at the sight of his yearly rant /birthday card

LineRunner Sat 04-May-13 11:56:43

Spero I do agree with you that "And having one decent, emotionally available parent must be huge protective factor".

Trouble is, I think that lone mothers like me (and like legomom) with the twatty Exes try so hard to compensate for the fact that the other parent is a guilt-trippy self-centred manchild that we end up exhausted and always feeling somehow on the backfoot. And perversely that's not good for the DCs.

So I am very grateful for the advice and support on here about changing my thinking.

themidwife My Ex got en expensive barrister who made sure he didn't open his mouth throughout the whole hearing! The barrister saw me privately, and was lovely to me. Speaks volumes, doesn't it? He refused to stick to the (unopposed!) contact order within a month of obtaining it, and having spent thousands on the barrister. Twat.

LineRunner Sat 04-May-13 11:59:12

macthecat I do hope that one day my DCs feel able to stand up to their guilt-trippy father. His latest feat of EA is to tell them that paying child support is ruining his plans to get married again.

themidwife Sat 04-May-13 12:24:21

Yes same here line. My ex's solicitor sent a junior solicitor to the penal notice hearing who was mortified & told my solicitor afterwards how traumatic it was for her to be sent to do something she disagreed with. She came over to me too & said she was glad it all turned out well. He just stormed off with a £4k bill in his hand.

Spero Sat 04-May-13 13:27:04

But don't confuse 'emotionally available' with 'always upbeat - that is not possible in the real world. You will have days when you are sad,,stressed pissed off.

I don't think it hurts children to see you are human. What I think hurts them is unfairness, relentless sniping and negativity.

I do snap from time to time and shout at my daughter. I do sometimes find it hellishly unfair that I don't get to concentrate on my career, have exciting mini breaks with my new partner and never ever have to worry about affording babysitters...

But I don't blame her for that and I try to,apologise when I snap unfairly. She seems to be growing up with a good level of emotional intelligence and she will also say sorry to me if she gets in a bad mood.

This thread is really good, some very useful comments. smile

My H left suddenly (he moved out while I was at work - I had no idea) last year. A few days later I discovered I was pregnant and I have just had his baby.

He's been such a bastard of the highest order, that it didn't take me long to feel hugely relieved he'd gone.

His behaviour towards me has been at best erratic, at worse evil. He wants nothing to do with his son, has sent me ridiculous demanding emails about all sorts of crap ('I respectfully request that you, out of courtesy to me, pay this bill herewith,........' type of claptrap), at the same time as completely avoiding my pregnancy.

He is angry with me - at one point he texted me to say I should 'fight' for him. That's what he expected - this for a man who I subsequently found out had got another woman pregnant. When I didn't - I never fought for him and never will - he got angry and arsey with me. I expect him to carry on in this vein, at the same time as spouting to his parents 'She'd never have me back anyway'.

That's right, it's my fault because I wouldn't have him back. hmm

skyebluesapphire Sat 04-May-13 15:59:59

good thread, thanks for the pointer Lou. My XH turned it all around on me, although he left me, it was my decision to file for divorce, thanks to MN, I didn't wait two years, I cracked on with it for UB. In our final conversation about asking him whether he was totally sure it was over, he said - you said that you would never trust me again anyway -

I replied, well if you want to come back, then that is something that we can work on. But no, he suddenly left the marriage, he had secret contact with OW, but it was all my fault because I wouldn't trust him again hmm

As much as I have my emotional ups and downs, life is easier here without XH. The levels of frustration and stress have dropped. There is nobody else to answer to and me and DD 5yo do what we want, when we want. If we want to eat cheese and crackers for tea, then we do.

XH has already dropped access from weekly to EOW, with only a phone call in between if he remembers .

I hope in time, that we will have a much better life without him, as financially, I think that we will be much better off, because of his tendancy to get into debt so easily. It's my fault that he had to pay for mediation and solicitors, while I got it all on legal aid grin. he expected to walk away and that was that, no expense, no hassle, no nothing.

It is always somebody else's fault, it is never their fault.

It is so reassuring, in a way, to read this and realise that actually there are so many other entirely twattish exHs out there. Makes me feel a little less like this is "all my fault". First exH did about 3.5 years of hell post him moving out, before disappearing off the scene entirely. Not sure what stbxh will be like....I'm nearly 28 weeks pregnant now with his baby. No contact with him at all is working at the moment. I am calling it my "twunt detox", and I am now on day 8. I really, REALLY hope that he doesn't behave like so many exHs do, but I'm not holding my breath! I just hope that he finds it in himself to have some respect for me and his baby in the period after my baby's birth and doesn't take me to court immediately for contact orders, as he has been threatening.

uncongenial Sat 04-May-13 16:57:12

"Yet he hates me."

I'm guessing (in my unprofessional opinion, and personal experience only), that this is because he cannot justify or excuse his own behaviour in any way and perhaps it makes him feel better about himself?

LineRunner Sat 04-May-13 17:09:57

TrickyTreeLou Yeah, using 'herewith' in an email is par for the course. I'm waiting for my twat of an Ex to have a crack at 'notwithstanding.' grin

LineRunner Sat 04-May-13 17:14:57

SkyeBlue it's as though it is a massive shock to them that they actually have responsibilities, isn't it?

I guess they are able to chuck away the 'moral' responsibilities of having a wife and children, so I think some of them (like my Ex) assume that they can easily chuck away the legal and financial responsibilities as well.

Or hire a barrister for day and have it all taken care of.

Like they think they are actually a fucking morally bankrupt rock star.

Spero Sat 04-May-13 18:08:26

I am currently being treated for cancer. I emailed my ex to discuss what might happen if I die - hopefully not statistically likely - and he replied 'if the worst case scenario should eventuate..'

Do they have a handbook? Very Pompous Phrases that make you sound more like Kofi Anan??

LineRunner Sat 04-May-13 18:25:52

Oh Spero.

Or shoud I say, 'In this unfortunate and unforseen laugh/cry scenario...'


skyebluesapphire Sat 04-May-13 18:44:29

Spero what an unfortunate twat of most magnificent proportions your ex most effectively is!! I hope that you make a full recovery.


MrsWilliamBodie Sat 04-May-13 19:38:22

I'm many years post-giving a shit about my ex. A massive shift in the power dynamic happened when I stopped fretting and trying to second guess what he might do if I did A or B or C. Instead I made choices based on what I wanted or thought was best and, when he tried to threaten me, I just sounded bored and ended the conversation with 'ok' or 'what again' etc.

He was also good at deflecting blame. The police had to be called on him more than once but it was never his fault for being violent hmm. I realised how utterly unreasonable he was when he blamed me for something that had happened to him before I'd even met him.

Ex was also well versed in pompous language - he even lists all his qualifications under his name, even on birthday cards to young DC "Love from Daddy xx, PhD, BSc, blah, blah, other bollocks". The thing is he gave up working (and hid his money) to avoid paying maintenance, so he's been so long out of his field he'll probably never work in it again. So it's all just wankerish attempts to try to bolster his own ego. I laugh at him and get on with my life. It would annoy the hell out of him if he actually realised just how little I think about him. We've had no contact for many years (which helps grin).

middleeasternpromise Sat 04-May-13 20:31:31

Had exact same experience, left with two children 5 and 6 months. Had previouslUy had affairs so TBH I was utterly relieved when he went. The year before had been a nightmare, I could do nothing right, he got involved with all sorts of new interests, started to refer to me as 'people like you ....'. Dreadful so glad he went, but of course later it was all my fault and I apparently kicked him out !! We had the whole, I didnt leave the children I only left you (well you left them with me you tosser) years of hideous emails and texts, thats stopped now thankfully. Totally vile. I give him a very wide berth, there will never be friendship there - he has now moved to the middle east. Pays nothing for the children who sadly find him almost as tedious as I do. If I ever get down about it all I just imagine what it would be like with him living here and I instantly feel better. I dont particularly want to understand the behaviour I really dont have the energy or interest - hes gone and hes staying gone.

I do have my pity party moments as I was left to parent two children alone when I did not sign up for that deal but they are great so its been worth it. As hes probably ruined my chances of ever meeting a decent long term partner Im going to need them to keep my company in my solitary old age lol

So the pompous language seems to be part of the script too then. I didn't know that, I thought my ex was unique in that particular area. My STBxH uses excessive punctuation in all his correspondance now (well he did, he's left me alon recently) - there is an abundance of ridiculous commas. It's almost as though he expects me to hear the deep intake of breath with each one so I understand how serious and mature he is. hmm

We should perhaps compile a book of some of these communications. I can smile at them now thankfully, but initially I thought 'What the f**k has this man turned into?'.

They become like strangers the moment they leave.

Spero Sat 04-May-13 20:52:28

He lists his qualifications on birthday cards to his children??!?

I think you win.

Thanks for the flowers.

Strangely, I never got any flowers from the ex or even inquiries as to how treatment is going. But when I did ask him to look after our daughter over Easter because I was likely to be feeling ill after chemo, his response was 'it would be very inconvenient'...

What would Kofi Anan do eh?

flippinada Sat 04-May-13 21:04:34

Can I just start by saying I think this is a lovely thread?

My XP left me for OW.. long, complicated, horrible story. He was an EA bully and by the end I was so beaten down, miserable and basically unable to function (recovering from serious PND among other things) I had a nervous breakdown.

Now, 7 years on I am forever grateful to her. And I mean that most sincerely. My life could not be better smile.

flippinada Sat 04-May-13 21:12:30

Just gone back and seen the last few posts. Spero have some flowers from me too. Good luck with your chemo and I hope you make a full recovery.

I also relate to the pompous emails. My XP seems to communicate exclusively in the wankiest sort of management speak. It used to intimidate me, now I laugh at it.

He uses phrases like "How can we take this project (that would be DS) forward, together?".

MrsWilliamBodie Sat 04-May-13 21:23:31

Spero yep qualifications on birthday cards. It's to show how clever, therefore superior to me, he is hmm, as were the pseudo-legal pompous writings.

He also employed a 'legal team' for court cases - huge expense and he still lost. It was all an attempt to control and brow beat me. How dare I decide that I'm happy he left.

I love the peace of mind I now have. My home is what it was before I met him - my sanctuary, and not the place I feel least happy.

MrsWilliamBodie Sat 04-May-13 21:24:29

Spero and some flowers too

Spero thanks from me too.

Your posts on here have been really good and have touched such a nerve with me.

Yes to wanky management speech. I've got a record of all my STBXH's text messages and emails. Read this for classic blame shifting:

‘I moved out because I was ashamed of what I did and I knew that you wouldn’t want to be with me anymore when the news came out. What you said on Saturday confirmed this. I miss the old you, but after you saying that you’d never want me back in a million years and that you would have thrown me out the house anyway, I have been proved right, there is no point in trying to make amends.’


Project?!! How can someone call a child a project?!!!!


Spero Sat 04-May-13 21:35:48

How can we take his project forward together?

We have a new winner!

Seriously, can't we compile a book in time for the Christmas market?

Thanks again for the flowers, it is very cheering. Ex has never got me anything but he did get my au pair some Turkish delight last month.

She is from Turkey and has helped me look after his daughter for three years now. This is the first acknowledgment or thanks he has ever given her.

I think she was a bit baffled.

flippinada Sat 04-May-13 21:37:08

That's the way he speaks Lou - isn't it awful? He's just a stupid, pompous fool.

In fairness to him <grinds teeth> he has so far been a decent father.

flippinada Sat 04-May-13 21:38:13

Seriously, can't we compile a book in time for the Christmas market? grin

It would be an instant bestseller!

LineRunner Sat 04-May-13 22:02:25

I bet barristers' chambers already have a bloody good collection of instructions from pompous clients-who-think-they-are-Kofi-Annan-but-are-actually-just-twats.

I can imagine my Ex thinking he's suddenly Judge John Deed because he's paying £200 an hour to a junior barrister to describe his own children like programme management variables.

flippinada Sat 04-May-13 22:10:18

I think my ex does it because he thinks it makes him sound clever (massive ego) and also because he doesn't really know how to talk to people.

LineRunner Sat 04-May-13 22:41:54

Is it a recent phenomenon? Are there websites that teach them to write ponderous emails like that?

Spero Sat 04-May-13 23:15:11

I think it is a manifestation of their own inadequacies - the same trait that made them crappy partners. As flipinada said, they want to appear clever so they adopt language that they think achieves that aim but its not real.

If they really were that clever they wouldn't worry about trying to convince everyone else. I think it is all about front, just another example of trying to escape from and cover up the reality of their lives.

legomom Sun 05-May-13 00:17:50

Its the pompous superior I 've done no wrong that gets me..

exp is quite happy to list off my faults while denying any wrongdoings simply dismissing that they ever happened like the 'put him up for adoption' one. Supposedly never happened.
Even tho he told his family and I ended up getting a tearful visit from his mother less then an hour later. Of course in that short amount of time the blame had already been shifted to me.

Hope your chemo goes wellflowersSpero

I love that idea middleastern imagine what it would be like if exp was still living here!!! Oh god i dread to think of it. My life has taken me on a very unexpected journey that i could never have imagined if he was still around. I actually have onesmile

legomom Sun 05-May-13 00:39:45

Linerunner a website hmmmm I wonder www.pompousarse. com

Simple tips on how to avoid your kids avoid paying maintenance while always appearing right!!

My exp threatened a solicitor once to I dunno sue me for splitting up.....When I agreed that yes a solicitor would be a great idea to sort maintenance and contact he shut up fairly fast. But also threatened war if i dared go to one myself angry

LineRunner Sun 05-May-13 11:33:35

Spero, I realise now with hindsight that men like my ExH care far too much about what people think of them.

The Kofi Annan emails are simply part of the architecture of their ridiculous facades. To think that I have actually in the past dreaded reading them. I should have just posted them on MN instead.

whitesugar Sun 05-May-13 12:14:46

Spero best wishes to you, I am thinking about you. This is going to sound selfish but reading this thread has made me feel better. I honestly thought I was the only woman subjected to vile hatred after 14 years being separated. I never thought anyone else was subjected to those mental emails & texts. I never met anyone in RL that was in this position. It's cold comfort but honestly this has been a revelation. To anyone who has been left whilst pregnant I was there 14 years ago & delivered the loveliest little boy who brought me so much joy that it helped me through the crap. He is now 14 & I found cigarettes in his blazer the other day - little shit head- But he was a gorgeous baby. Gotta rush out but will check in later x

Spero Sun 05-May-13 12:19:52

That's not selfish, that's what we are here for. The only way to deal with this crap and to stay sane is to laugh at them and pity them.

I think it is awful that so many of us have lived for so long being either afraid of, upset by or enraged by these men.

Anything we can do or share to help people get a new mindset is a positive thing.

themidwife Sun 05-May-13 12:25:08

You have you laugh eventually at the pompous language!

The "in essence", "without predudice" emails! Hahahahahahahaha!!

flippinada Sun 05-May-13 19:14:11

whitesugar you don't sound selfish at all.

I think it's good to realise you're not alone in dealing with the madness!

legomom Sun 05-May-13 19:57:15

It is comforting to know that I'm not the only one whose exp has behaved dreadfully towards them rewrote the past and blamed its downfall on me (even the 10 years of no xmas or birthday cards for his ds where somehow my fault) 14 years later. No one in RL seems to have encountered this with only one other person having an ex send a few harassing emails for a few weeks after the spilt. But no one I know with kids has actually left or been left by their partner.

It has been 4 years now since I've spoken to him( which was truely awful hated fill malice he wished me& his ds nothing but bad fortune)
The once yearly card to ds brings the dread flooding back to the younger me sitting in the corner of a room crying her eyes out at how joyless and miserable her life had become.The younger me wished she was dead rather then live another day in hell.

Now I'm living life to the full I've travelled the world found a new life, ds has accepted the once a year contact he gets( never a return address tho) I know ds wishes it was different.

sarahseashell Sun 05-May-13 21:24:20

sad legomum but well done for coping brilliantly and making a new life for yourself and ds.

Mine hates me too even though he left 5 yrs ago for OW confused He did the overnight personality change thing and I was left shock at not having seen it coming

grin at the new MN concept of the kofi annan email though

LineRunner Mon 06-May-13 20:48:49

Hi TrickyTreatLou, you wrote 'They become like strangers the moment they leave.'

I have been thinking about this for two days. I think what you said is really, really important.

I feel like I should have had a chance to grieve for a person I lost - but I haven't, because that person is still in my life, trying to make it unbearable. Almost like being haunted.

How is it that you feel, sarahseashell?

sarahseashell Mon 06-May-13 21:26:53

linerunner I found the shock and it's aftermath terrible, on top of the betrayal. I read a book recommended on here called sudden endings (amazon) which explained a lot. It helped to know there were others - thank goodness for MN

LineRunner Mon 06-May-13 22:12:03

Thanks for that book recommendation, sarah. I will definitely look for that.

It really does help to know it wasn't just me, like you and whitesugar have said. My ExH of course told me it was only me who could possibly feel upset about being left for someone else, that 'other people' got over it and moved on like good girls.

He obviously had had months to prepare. I had 20 minutes. Yet he was the one who changed, utterly, on the doorstep, having kept up a brilliant pretence for all that time before.

whitesugar Tue 07-May-13 01:39:58

Line I am so happy you started this thread. I was out for a drive today & cos of all mn posts I felt I was free for first time in years! I have spent way too long second guessing how he will ruin everything for me & now that I know he is a textbook tool his power is gone! Doesn't mean he will stop trying to sabotage me but like one poster said - laugh about it.

Hope anyone in this situation will wake up & smell the coffee 14 years before I did. If anyone consistently makes you feel bad about yourself, get the f**k out & don't engage. I am hardly in a position to give advice but have finally realised that 14 years of taking criticism from someone I don't even know anymore is totally ridiculous. Thank God for advice from women who have been through it & have come out the other side. I am starting to believe I am one of those women - finally!!!

legomom Tue 07-May-13 03:14:50

That is so true whitesugar why do i take criticism from someone I dont know and infact doesnt know me?? 14 years later...i'm certainly a different person now then i was way back then.
My ex likes to re -write the past but I know what happened I was there also.

He also liked to blame me for the years of no contact with his ds when infact he used it all throughout our relationship as a threat if I stepped out of line. Ds was a few days old first time he threatened to have nothing to do with ds if i refused to do as told, his dad was there too and just nodded in agreement angry

Spero Tue 07-May-13 10:13:59

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

It's great this thread has proved so positive. If we can't write a book how about we start a Facebook page to collate some of the most unique uses of 'heretofore' 'notwithstanding' and 'eventuate' in emails?

It could be a beacon of light in the darkness. I really do think if you can laugh at them, you take their power away.

olgaga Tue 07-May-13 10:15:36

I feel like I should have had a chance to grieve for a person I lost - but I haven't, because that person is still in my life, trying to make it unbearable. Almost like being haunted.

Line that's almost exactly what my friend said. "It's worse than a bereavement - he's gone, but there's no funeral"!

Tricky were you the respondent in the chutney possession order? Congratulations on the birth of your son. Hope you found a good solicitor eventually.

Yes, my H took all the chutney. And half the other contents of the house. Whilst I was at work no less.

The hardest thing was realising he is a stranger. I'd been with him for 10 years. He had been having an affair for several months, got someone pregnant and had been planning to leave me. I had no idea, no time to prepare, no time to grieve.

I had 'our' baby 4 weeks ago. I'm still going through the motions in terms of processing how I've been treated. The only way I've been able to cope is to have no contact with him and to do it all through solicitors/mediators.

I found 'Runaway husbands' very useful (the book), plus the book by Lundy Bancroft about controlling men. I read them both with a highlighter in my hand and then gave up because I could pretty much highlight all of the books!

NicknameTaken Tue 07-May-13 16:18:46

flowers, spero. Hope the chemo goes well. I always really value your posts. Lots of good sense and humanity.

Tricky, I snorted with laughter at him taking all the chutney. You couldn't make it up.

Spero Tue 07-May-13 16:22:00

Thankyou nickname. Just finishing last chemo now hurrah!

I hope he enjoyed the chutney. What an arse. I wonder what is going thru their brains at times like this? She doesn't deserve ANY chutney....

deleted203 Tue 07-May-13 16:40:56

LineRunner I could have practically written your OP!

My ex walked out when I was 7 months pregnant with DC3. DC1 & 2 were 1 and 3 at time. He arsed about for 6 months claiming he needed space to 'find himself' whilst shagging everything that he possibly could. He then returned full of self pity amid claims that he wanted us back. I gave him a second chance for the sake of the children. He was then a complete knob to me for the next 3 years before finally announcing he wanted a divorce.

DCs are now late teens/early 20s. Ex has never paid any maintenance, has always seen DCs (due to my hugely encouraging them to keep a relationship going with their father) and is STILL massively bitter and full of hatred towards me.

I cannot get my head round it at all - he left, he wanted a divorce and he managed to continue a relationship with his kids without having to financially support them. I am not sure what it is that makes him so bitter towards me - but suspect that it is basically because I didn't fall apart and am clearly perfectly happy without him.

TBH, 14 years down the line I couldn't give a shit about his opinion. I think he's a bit sad, bitter and pathetic and on the very rare occasions I see him I am simply massively grateful that I am not still with him. I don't harbour any hatred or bitterness towards him - perhaps the strongest is a mild sense of irritation that he clearly thinks I ruined his life when I have always been civil to him and tried to rise above pettiness for the sake of the children. I would have like to remain on fairly friendly terms, simply for their sake.

At the end of the day I feel he is a bit sad for focusing so much negative energy upon me and my life when I simply feel indifferent to what he is doing with his.

NicknameTaken Tue 07-May-13 16:44:40

Glad to hear it - hope it's a great success and you never even have to think about cancer again.

On the chutney (and everything else), I don't think the thought process goes any further than "I want it". The fact that someone else might want it is irrelevant. The focus is so much on what they want that another person's needs and desires are just an irritating irrelevance.

"The focus is so much on what they want that another person's needs and desires are just an irritating irrelevance."

Agree with this.

My H took some strange things. He came back one day whilst I was at work and emptied the freezer! Later he sent a solicitor's letter asking for his jigsaws from the loft. He also requested the television (even though he'd gone to live with someone else in their home, he was quite prepared to take the tv off me).

Three days after he left I met him in a pub. He told me about his affair but told me he didn't want to discuss that. He then got a list of my pros and cons out of his back pocket and said he was there to discuss me, as represented on his list. My cons were longer because he'd "gone into more detail". If I could address these cons he would attend counselling with me.

All this and he was angry that I didn't want him back.

These men are highly entitled, it's all about control.

Spero Tue 07-May-13 17:38:16

I had a chat with a friend on Saturday about this kind of thing and she gave me a useful perspective - she said that people fall roughly into two camps - service to self and service to others.

Those in the 'service to self 'camp see everything in terms of how it benefts them. Anything else doesn't register. She suggested that if I want my ex to do something I would have to frame it in a way that made it clear it would provide benefit to HIM.

I am not sure I can be arsed however.

Spero Tue 07-May-13 17:39:22

A list of pros and cons! hahahahaha

I hope high up on the 'con' list was 'has been in a relationship with an utter tosser'

flippinada Tue 07-May-13 17:40:29

Spero fingers crossed for you!

I like the idea of a private Facebook group too. Invitation only, what about "Kofi Annan's words of wisdom" as a title ?

My top 'con' was I didn't trust him.

Followed by he didn't have enough freedom to do what he wanted.


He'd just confessed he was having an affair ffs!

flippinada Tue 07-May-13 17:50:45


Your comment about your ex being pissed off your are happy without him freaky rang a bell with me.

I think mine is secretly furious that I've had the sheer temerity to build a successful and happy life without him. Also that DS loves me. I know that annoys him a lot..tough shit, you freak grin

flippinada Tue 07-May-13 17:51:38

I mean really, not freaky. Sabotaged by auto correct!

LineRunner Tue 07-May-13 17:55:17

I am not really on FB yet. (Set up a fledgling page; immediately forgot password.) But I would make an effort for this. smile

Thank you everybody who is on this thread. It's been a very positive eye-opener.

And for Spero flowers

LineRunner Tue 07-May-13 17:59:01

flippinada I think you just touched on something really significant there. "I think mine is secretly furious that I've had the sheer temerity to build a successful and happy life without him. Also that DS loves me."

I have a dear friend who says that my ExH sounds bitter that I have a loving relationship with our children. I find this hard to process - that a father would be bitter that his own children love ther mother and vice versa. But the horrible truth is that it looks likely to be the case. How bloody awful.

comingintomyown Tue 07-May-13 18:09:49

Brilliant , producing a written list when he has been having an affair !

Yesterday DS popped over to see XH off the cuff and casually mentioned that Dad had turned up "battered" after playing golf all day. I had been having a few "Bank Holidays are for families poor me" moments but that snippet of info had me feeling better !

themidwife Tue 07-May-13 18:15:56

This thread is fantastic! It's so good to laugh! My ex said he "absolutely insisted that I seek counselling to look at my issues as our situation wasn't his fault" (he physically, mentally & sexually abused me during pregnancy) & recently after 9 years since splitting up asked if we could meet for dinner to "bury the hatchet". I replied that I don't have a hatchet to bury especially after being married to someone else for 5 years but I know that our DD would like to see more of him than 2 days a month. He replied "having considered your text I am confident that DD is & always has been satisfied with our current contact arrangements & do not feel it is necessary to amend it at this moment in time" Fnarrr!!! grin

themidwife Tue 07-May-13 18:18:51

And talking of taking things, my ex took all the mirrors in the house (narc by any chance?) & my older DS's Tigger pyjama case (not even his son!) as well as the 3 piece suite so that when we came home from the school run we had nothing to sit on! shock

flippinada Tue 07-May-13 18:26:47

I laugh about it but yes, it is really horrible LineRunner

Mine does try to sabotage every now and then. I've had the "Daddy says we are not a proper family because there's only me and you", "The (my family surname) aren't my proper family, the (exes family surname) are"....etc.

DS seems more baffled by these comments in a why is Dad saying this weird stuff way....I mean why, just why would you say stuff like that to your own child?

I could fill pages upon pages with his awful weirdness.

LineRunner Tue 07-May-13 18:37:54

I never truly believed, flippinada, that he was actually bitter (as opposed to being Kofi Fucking Annan) for the longest time because he was the one who left us. How could he be bitter when he put his own desires first and left his own children behind with me? What possible reason could he have to be bitter and to hate me? Surely he would be deleriously happy?

But to sum up this thread, he does what he does because he's a twat.

Nice men must hate men like him. And I suspect he knows it. Hence more bitterness - directed at me.

Is there a magic powder we could spinkle on them to bring them back to their senses? Some kind of 'Nice Man Powder'. I don't ever, ever want him near me again - I just want him to be a nicer dad and the kind of ExH you don't have to call the police on.

Does leaving give them mental breakdowns?

flippinada Tue 07-May-13 18:51:55

If only it was that easy!

Funnily enough, my ex has the ideal life on the surface; he's married now (to OW) and DS has a little brother.

I his mind he's engaged in some sort of who's the best parent competition in which I temporarily have the upper hand and that is NOT ALLOWED because he has to win.

fengirl1 Tue 07-May-13 18:52:49

Just popping in to say how much of this rings true with me. I always trusted in the fact that the dcs needed no help from me in working out what an idiot he is....
Recently one of them was justifiably very upset whilst at his and OW's house. It ended with him dumping them at the local railway station after spending 15 mins assassinating their character in the car (no arguments were offered). Of course, it hadn't occurred to him to refuse to take dc and sort it out. As they arrived, dc thanked him for the lift (and meant it) and got another load of abuse as a reply. As dc walked away, they said 'why don't you just fuck off?' which at that point was an understandable response from a teenager.
I could not restrain my horror and laughter when I collected dc from the station (no trains were actually running that day). I would have loved to witness the embarrassment that xh must have felt (why is it all of these men are perfect?)
When we were talking about it later, dc said 'you don't understand how horrible he is mum'. The only thing I could think to say was 'why do you think we're divorced?' grin

Spero Tue 07-May-13 19:12:26

O yes to Kofi Annan's words of wisdom ... Or from the pen of Kofi Annan.

Must definitely include anything which includes 'this moment in time'. We could do a top ten of most used pompous phrases.

Wossname Tue 07-May-13 19:58:18

I used to work at a solicitors dealing with letters from this type of man, always screaming about costs when they had basically harassed their wives via the courts and solicitor. Then they would start harassing their solicitors too, they seemed to think they could just wear the firm down with sheer will power, the way they had abused or harassed their wives. I fucking loathed every single one of them and dreaded the phone ringing as it was always some twat doing ' a Kofi'.

Did any of you ever just say something like 'you prioritised your own needs above your children, failed to financially support your own children and have treated me like shit even though it was you who left after an affair'? I can imagine feeling so bewildered and under attack that it would be impossible to get across to these men just how awful they are.

Just dealing with them in work affected how I felt about men in general for a fairly long time, can't imagine dealing with them forever.

deleted203 Tue 07-May-13 20:06:28

Can I add my 'Ex's wedding day story' to the thread to (hopefully) amuse some of you?

Having paid no maintenance for the DCs (3, 5 & 6 when he left) DS got to 15 and - you know what it's like, ladies - he suddenly came home on a Fri in April and said 'That trip money was due in today'...and I realised with horror that back in Oct I'd agreed he could certainly go on a History GCSE trip to the Somme and paid a deposit of £75 and then forgotten entirely about the fucking thing.

£240 still outstanding. Shit.

So I rang the Ex and explained - asked him really nicely, 'Do you think you could possibly go halves with me on it? I don't have the money as I'm supply teaching and haven't had much work this month. Money is very tight and I can't come up with £240 for DS by Monday'. To my amazement he agreed, no problem. So I sent in a cheque with DS on the Monday - and then couldn't get the fucking money out of Ex! He claimed he didn't believe me, didn't trust me, kept refusing to answer the phone - all sorts of shit...and I knew my mortgage repayment would bounce without his contribution.

It was also 2 weeks before his BIG wedding to new partner - we are talking £20,000 job, the full works.

Eventually I got DS to ring him on his mobile and took the phone off him saying to Ex "You do NOT want to upset me 2 weeks before OWs big day! I still have my wedding dress - and I will be there outside the church like Miss Haversham - draped in cobwebs, holding a bunch of dead flowers and weeping! Give me the fucking money you agreed to pay for your son's trip - or the children will be joining me, dressed in rags!'

There was a cheque through my door an hour later...


themidwife Tue 07-May-13 20:27:54

Brilliant so worn out!!! gringringrin

flippinada Tue 07-May-13 20:41:41

I like from the pen of Kofi Annan best grin

What does everyone else think?

flippinada Tue 07-May-13 20:42:48

That did make me laugh sowornout thank you for that!

Change2013 Tue 07-May-13 21:13:40

Thank god for this thread. I thought it was only my ex H being an unreasonable prat after leaving and moving in with OW. I've spent months wondering how he could turn instantly into a stranger and blame me for everything even though I now know he had numerous affairs and moved away to be with OW. But it doesn't matter because it was me he left and not the children.

I've come to the conclusion that this denial of the truth is the only way they can live with themselves.

themidwife Wed 08-May-13 07:41:12

Wossname - my solicitor used to call my XH Mr Clipboard because he turned up to court (repeatedly) with his "evidence" on a clipboard. So professional. Unfortunately he spoilt it by interrupting the judge's summing up by saying in a booming voice "Can I visit the lavatory?" In other words - what you are saying is unimportant & only my needs matter. Entitled prick!

NicknameTaken Wed 08-May-13 09:38:50

"they could just wear the firm down with sheer will power, the way they had abused or harassed their wives"

Yyy to this, woss. This is the way that my ex lives his entire life. And he congratulates himself on it and thinks people should admire him for it.

Oh, and my ex kept trying to talk over the judge. She was not impressed. Very unfortunately, it's not our usual judge and whenever she (usual judge) has seen him, his solicitor has had him on a tight rein, so she's never really got the full flavour of the man.

Spero Wed 08-May-13 09:44:20

Spreadsheets? Do they do spreadsheets? <excited>

In teeny tiny type with lots of different colours? Those are my faves.

olgaga Wed 08-May-13 10:31:37

Spreadsheets for household contents, finances and child contact no less...

This was a classic, from my friend's ex - not an actual quote, but you get the gist:

I feel so terribly sad that you cannot agree and communicate with me. I feel very surprised about this, as this was not the case when we were together - there were very few occasions when we argued...

As my friend said "Yes when we were together - before you left me for a friend of mine who I was due to meet for lunch but she cancelled because her husband had discovered she was having an affair with you, you cheating toerag".

Deep breath and ignore. You really couldn't make it up.

Spero Wed 08-May-13 10:34:50

Nice wording there. - I feel terribly sad you won't agree with me... I bet he does.

catfourfeet Wed 08-May-13 17:15:22

"kofi " enough ??

REALLY Important day for ds

Stbxh has known since jan.

Said he wouldnt miss it for the world a week ago.

I haven't had ANY contact for a month

When I tried to raise subject of ds day and he RAN AWAY!!!

Dear catfourfeet (FULL name lol)

Please inform ds it is with regret that I will not be attending his (VERY special) celebration  this coming week. I am truly sorry about the upset this may cause him but I feel that it would be inappropriate to attend this ( religious) celebration given our current circumstances: namely, that I am presently filing for a divorce and (given our last exchange) that my close proximity to yourself will only cause distress.  I therefore cannot foresee any way in which my presence at the celebration could be a positive influence on his day.

I truly hope that his special day goes well. He will be in my thoughts.

Yours sincerely,



themidwife Wed 08-May-13 17:46:44

Catfourfeet - unbloodybelievable!

Similar received recently - DD was playing piano in front of whole school & parents assembly & desperately wanted him to come seeing as it was his day off anyway.

Text the night before, I have texted DD regarding her piano performance & she agrees that in view of the fact that she is only playing for 5 minutes it is not worth me attending. Charming!

LineRunner Wed 08-May-13 18:11:17

fengirl1 I think my DCs are only recently realising 'how horrible he is' [my ExH obvs, not yours] smile and finally 'getting' that this is what I have had to put up with for 12 long years.

You should put a plaque up at that railway station. Possibly Kofi-based.

Spero Wed 08-May-13 18:23:46

Sadly typical and reinforces what my friend was saying about 'service to self'. All they can do is think of cost benefit analysis in terms of themselves - its only five mins of piano to them but a much needed validation for their child. Tossers.

themidwife Wed 08-May-13 18:31:41

Exactly - just looking out into the crowd & seeing your parent's face is what matters to the child. That they are worth it & important to you. GRRR angry

OldRichandGrateful Wed 08-May-13 20:27:46

May I add a couple of comments from one of the many ranty letters my Ex sent me?

"I will be unable to give DS a birthday present this year (DS was 5), as YOU have reported me to CSA and they are draining my bank account".

I was getting £4.50 a week at the time.

Or another classic - "I'm not "doing" Christmas presents this year as you have not invited me to lunch on the 25th".

I didn't invite him as he had left us for OW. But in his head that wasn't a reason not to come over and eat our food!

OldRichandGrateful Wed 08-May-13 20:31:00

Another one - our DS was in a school play. Ex couldn't make the performance because he had a darts match. sad

themidwife Wed 08-May-13 20:33:19

Entitled narcissist springs to mind!

OldRichandGrateful Wed 08-May-13 20:36:32

themidwife - you are spot on! I didn't know they existed until I joined MN!

LineRunner Wed 08-May-13 20:37:51

I think the sum total of my ExH's birthday and Christmas presents to our DCs over 12 years probably amounts to less than he spends on his completely unnecessary motorbike in annual insurance.

OldRichandGrateful Wed 08-May-13 20:51:00

Ex would spend vast amounts of our joint income on himself. On one occasion, he spent all the money I had saved to pay for nursery fees (so that I could work full-time) on a new cd/radio for HIS car!

He was unemployed for a time, but I couldn't trust him with DS. Just before my maternity leaved ended, I went into work for an afternoon for a catchup. Ex had left DS upstairs in our bedroom for the entire time. No bottles or a change of nappy. Looking back, I should have left him then.

flippinada Wed 08-May-13 20:52:07

The phrase "if you didn't laugh you'd cry" springs to mind here.

My XP is a slightly different brand of awful to a lot of the specimens described on here. He actually can't do enough for DS and turns up to all parents evenings, gets him lovely presents, takes him to activities and so forth. At this point I'm thinking you will all be rolling your eyes at me thinking I'm a complete fraud posting on here but bear with me.

I believe with XP that this a form of narciccism (sp?) I've always believed that he sees DS as an extension of himself, and me (you know, his actual mother) as an irritation that he has to put up with as I very inconveniently refused to go away and let him and OW bring up DS..I actually had to go to court to get residence of DS. The court reporter who dealt with him had him sussed and recommended that I had care of DS as he couldn't be trusted to put his (DS) welfare above his own needs.

By the way, despite his extravagant gifts to DS and constant activities, he pays a grand total of £55 per month maintenance and I had to fight to get even that. He is self employed (enough said).

OldRichandGrateful Wed 08-May-13 20:52:08


flippinada Wed 08-May-13 20:56:53

sad OldRich - what a selfish bastard.

themidwife Wed 08-May-13 22:42:45

My ex wouldn't buy me an engagement ring because he said they were a waste of money (I know I know - I've grown since then!) but he spent £400 on ONE cymbal for himself.

LineRunner Wed 08-May-13 23:24:41

My ExH has bought a very expensive drum kit.

The biggest red flag I now recognise in hindsight was when I was 26 weeks pregnant with our 1st child. I was coming home from work on the train, and barely made it home. I had started to become very unwell - visual disturbance, couldn't speak. I thought I was having a stroke. I made him take me to the GP, who said I was having a migraine and told my husband to take me home and give me 'plenty of TLC'.

I just knew - absolutely knew - that he (my ExH) would give me no TLC whatsoever and find the concept alien. I felt sad and a bit ashamed if I'm honest, looking back. That was 17 years ago.

worley Wed 08-May-13 23:25:49

ive only just found this thread, it made me laugh and cry!
my ex had an ow, i asked him to leave. he's not with her since ow informed me of the affair, he tried to overdose and was found in time, sent me threatening texts and emails, threatened numerous times to try suicide again.. refused to see dc, threatened to have my dad "beat up" to sort me out. at times he was lovely and i loved him so much and then others he was very nasty. i brought the lundy book and recognise so much in it..
anyway.. now tonight (4yrs on) weve had a disagreement as he text ti say hes on a course next week and cant collect ds from school and i have to sort it. i cant at short notice anf after a banter it transpired hes not on a course hes going away with his new ten years younger than him gf. i sent an angry message back and hes now refusing to see the dc ever again and i will have to get a childminder again. why do they do this!! its so frustrating. i still have to either do what he wants or i have no childcare to work. he pays no maintenace as he claims he cant afford to..and doesnt have them weekends.
he knows i cant get a childminder as ive gone through three in a year. (ds has adhd and the cm doesnt seem to be able to cope with him)
EX'S!!!! arghhhhhh

LineRunner Wed 08-May-13 23:35:49

It is horrible when they play games over agreements to have time with their own children in order the bugger up your ability to hold down a job.

I have had this. He once turned up an hour late knowing I had a key meeting to attend for work. I asked him to at least drop me off near the office as it was on his way home, as clearly I couldn't call a cab until he had turned up to collect the DCs, and I was now very late. He and OW refused.

But his OW had recently rung me to say she thought I should 'earn more' so he could stop paying child support.


Spero Wed 08-May-13 23:40:07

O god yes, massive red flag if they can't be nice to you when you are ill. Again, nothing in it for them, so why bother. I looked after my ex for three solid days when he had laser eye surgery. He sent me a card to say our relationship 'had passed its first test'. I can't remember a single nice thing he ever did when I was ill, just got grumpy about it.

Aaaaarrrrrgg. Why do we accept so little? Why does it tke so long to get wise? My mum never talked to me about stuff like this, is that part of the problem?

I am going to do a list for my daughter and MAKE her memorise it.

Things to watch out for
Is your partner kind to you?
Does your partner listen to you?
Does your partner make you feel safe?
Does your partner apologise when he/she makes a mistake?
Does your partner cook and clean?
Do you feel like your partner supports you?

It was a big fat 'no' to all of the above with my ex but the tragedy is, I knew that right from the start and didn't do anything about it for years.

themidwife Thu 09-May-13 15:13:57

Yes ashamed feelings here too. I knew but accepted it too.

PostBellumBugsy Thu 09-May-13 15:24:44

Mine left me & I feel better off without him.

It has been really tough. I had to go back to work full time because he was so tight about maintenance and sometimes he has been so awkward about not sticking to contact arrangements I could cheerfully have dug his heart out with a spoon - but I am glad he left.

I am stronger, happier & know that the DCs have grown up in a much less stressful environment than they would have had if we'd stayed together.

LineRunner Thu 09-May-13 17:29:20

themidwife there are worse things I feel ashamed about and while I know they were not my fault, they do hurt. I am so glad I am starting to face up to these things. For instance, I think it was vile of him, utterly vile, to have sex with me (I thought we were making love IYSWIM) the day before he left. Would I have consented if he'd told me the truth - 'I'm shagging someone else and leaving you and the DCs tomorrow'? Would I hell.

Things like that can really mess with your head if you think you are the only one. Thank god for all the lovely women who have come onto the thread.

sarahseashell Thu 09-May-13 17:37:34

linerunner I have the same thoughts over and over again about the 'last day' sex sad
sometimes I think I feel a bit ptsd about it -it's years ago now. Also I can totally relate to the not caring/not looking after you when you're ill, pregnant etc. I can remember my exh being really cross with me when I was quite ill, had an accident and hurt myself and several occasions like this blush I think I was too 'far in' at that stage and didn't know any better.

LineRunner Thu 09-May-13 17:44:06

PostBellum I completely get where you are coming from. We have many happy times in our home that ExH would have prevented happening. There would have been no lie-ins, no clutter, no spontaneity allowed.

All of which makes me think his awkwardness over contact arrangements was very carefully orchestrated to cause me maximum disruption, despite the fact that my working was to keep a roof over our DC's heads not just mine.

LineRunner Thu 09-May-13 17:46:41

sarahseashell Thank you so much for posting. Is it recognised, do you know - 'last day' sex and the trauma it can leave behind?

To be honest I still feel fucking violated.

Spero Thu 09-May-13 17:49:21

Again, I think the 'last sex' scenario just underscores their utter selfishness and self absorption, with no thought for you. They fancy sex, you are available. I think it is as simple as that for them.

LineRunner Thu 09-May-13 17:51:26

Spero It's hard one to process. But I'm glad I'm finally 'talking' about it.

Spero Thu 09-May-13 17:56:19

My ex had sex with me in the awful period of had we split up, I am not really sure because he wouldn't talk about anything. So in the end I just had to proceed on basis that we were splitting up and his silence indicated consent.

So god knows what he thought that was all about. I agree, it is an utterly vile and dishonest thing to do in the circs of a relationship ending or about to end - but they don't see it like that. They dont think they are doing anything wrong. It is just a further example of their behaviour all through the relationship.

Only their feelings are real, only their needs deserve to be met. If they are nice to us, it is only to serve their own aims. Once we come to them with problems or a need to be supported, they get angry and irritated.

I don't know if men like this are born or made, but there seem to be sadly a lot of them about.

sarahseashell Thu 09-May-13 17:57:28

thanks linerunner no I didn't know that I know what you mean, maybe good to air it. With mine I think it was quite calculating 'last time' on his part - that there was an element of power trip to it, he knew it'd be the last time and I didn't know what was going on at all. I completely agree about feeling violated sad

I have met a couple of lovely people since and feel quite 'healed' by that but I will never forget it completely, it is one of my worst memories about the whole thing

LineRunner Thu 09-May-13 18:07:40

I wish I had learned a lot sooner that that kind of personality didn't signify 'strength'.

LineRunner Thu 09-May-13 18:09:51

Sorry that was to Spero.

sarah God, isn't it awful to think it was calculated?

sarahseashell Thu 09-May-13 18:11:08

spero yes I agree. sad does seem to be a 'type'
Linerunner yes I think that's just what can happen if you're young and perhaps not had great male role models ?

One plus is that we'd hopefully all run a mile from that 'type' in future

sarahseashell Thu 09-May-13 18:13:54

linerunner thanks yes it is. I guess we can never be sure but in my case I certainly have reason to think so. Shitty treatment all round. Makes the aftermath nastiness all the more shock
It is a dislike of women, at root of it I think (in mine's case)

Spero Thu 09-May-13 18:15:23

for the worst type there must be an element of calculation.

It is horrible to think of, but the blame is all theirs. I am not going to blame myself for wanting a family and someone to love and ignoring all the warning signs for too long. That was foolish, but everything I did I did out of love and hope.

Everthing he did he did out of selfishness and laziness.

Spero Thu 09-May-13 18:18:13

On the dislike of women being the root, I think that is very interesting.

My ex had a horrible relationship with his mother who did seem on his account to be very uncaring and emotionally manipulative. He once said to me 'there's no point you crying all the time as I grew up with that, I couldn't do anything to help then and I can't now'.

Annoyingly, I was suckered in for so long out of sympathy for his stories of his awful childhood. I was going to make it all better! All he needed was the love of a good woman!

I think it makes sense to look carefully at how the man in your life treats his mother and what kind of relationship they have.

LineRunner Thu 09-May-13 18:29:11

I'd rather be single for ever than go through that again.

Spero Thu 09-May-13 18:31:39

For me, part of the problem was that I didn't want to be single. I thought it made me a failure.

I wish I could go back to myself and point out what rubbish that was. A good relationship is great of course, but a bad one poisons all your life.

But maybe that is a lesson you can only learn with time.

LineRunner Thu 09-May-13 18:32:03

Oh, and I'll bet that the OW weren't told about the 'last day sex'. More like, 'She won't show me any affection; we haven't touched each other for years.'

Spero Thu 09-May-13 18:39:09

O yes! another one to add to THE LIST -what do they say about their exes?

I was told she was a horrible nasty woman who messed him about. He showed me emails from her which were pretty horrible but with hindsight she had probably just been through the same stuff as me.

I later found out he was sending MY angry emails to others in order to show what a totally unreasonable and unpleasant person I was - completely editing out the email from him which had prompted my less than measured and courteous response...

LineRunner Thu 09-May-13 18:48:12

I don't communicate with my ExH at all now unless absolutely necessary and if I can keep it one word I will.


Him: 'There will be no more money from me.' <imagine dramatic music in his head>

Me: [sighing] 'Fine.' <takes out pen and paper and begins writing, "Dear Child Support Agency....">

It's the only way.

Spero Thu 09-May-13 18:56:18

You are right. He still pushes my buttons. I have decided to have no further contact at all now - he emails my au pair to agree contact times.

the final straw was when he said he was working in Europe from Jan to March this year and he would like to see dd twice a month. I was very pleased about this as I knew she was thrilled.

Then I told him about my cancer diagnosis and asked if he could arrange the weekends around chemo when I was likely to be feeling ill.

His reponse was now he was only coming once a month as he had suddenly realised that it was expensive to travel and our daughter 'wouldn't mind'.

So I emailed back to say he was a cunt and that was that.

I bet that email got circulated.

LineRunner Thu 09-May-13 19:04:07

He's probably circulating it to people who think he's a cunt anyway, and who are quite amused by it.

Even my DS thinks his dad's a knob, and that is seriously not my doing.

OldRichandGrateful Thu 09-May-13 19:29:12

Is it wrong to be secretly pleased when your DS or DD finds out for themselves what tossers their DFs are?

I tried very hard not to influence the relationship between Ex and DS. I thought I would be neutral.

DS received a £10 postal order in a "Happy 12th Birthday card (DS was 13!) from Ex (who was pretending he didn't have a bank account).

Being 13, DS didn't immediately email DF back with a thank you. Cue ranty email from DF - " you are an ungrateful little bastard and I'm glad I left you with your bitch of a Mother" - to which DS turned and said "he really is a tosser isn't he Mum". Yes he is son, he is.

I hope you all don't think I'm doing competitive Ex stories! I'm finding it quite healing to write it all down.

LineRunner Thu 09-May-13 19:37:15

Yep, my DS has had the 'You are a horrble little shit' rants as well. What possesses men to talk to their own young sons like this?

LineRunner Thu 09-May-13 19:41:36

Actually, I think I can answer that. These men can't bear being scrutinised, can they? Not in anything but massively glowing terms, anyway.

They will even lash out at their own children if they don't bow down and worship.

Poor DCs. Yes, I think it is good to be pleased that they are wise to this dreadful attitude and behaviour, so they are less likely to repeat it in their futures.

fengirl1 Thu 09-May-13 19:47:41

It has made me so sad to read many of the posts here.... The shame, the being left to cope when really you can't (with illness or otherwise), spending on whatever they want but being dead tight when it comes to you.... No wonder I'm still terrified of ever having another relationship, as much as l'd love to have someone who cares for me, makes me feel special and mostly just give me a cuddle when I need it. hmm

GeetTallBird Thu 09-May-13 20:15:33

What a great thread! Have just sat here reading and grinning and nodding. My stbxh is very good at KA statements, none as good as on here though. He says them in real life, I haven't got any interesting texts to share sadly.
Spero hope you are feeling okay x

LineRunner Thu 09-May-13 20:17:06

Just to add to that, Spero, hope you are doing ok today flowers

themidwife Thu 09-May-13 20:19:32

My DCs have discovered for themselves. The old Christmas card DD received for her birthday with a flimsy polystyrene market stall toy helmet (I bought her a bike) all because I dared to ask for a particular item for her birthday, the trying to convince the DCs I am a thief because after all his debts were paid there was only £1000 cash left for him from his half of the proceeds of sale of the house (& that was being generous - his debts alone were £19k out of a pot of £35 leaving me with a £15k deposit on a little house! The telling the kids I am like a stray cat who breeds to get money out of men (I've always worked & paid the bills with minimal or no maintenance for years) etc etc. They do learn for themselves eventually.

LineRunner Thu 09-May-13 20:25:22

What hacks me off the most is these Exes trying to lay it on with a trowel that their bad and tight-arsed behaviour 'is something your mother has forced me into'.

It may have been unchallenged and unchallenge-able when the DCs were in primary school, but message for ExH: they are 15 and 17 now. They think you are tight and unpleasant.

50shadesofvomit Thu 09-May-13 21:08:34

Omg! So many of these posts ring true to my ex.

Ex left us for OW in Jan after gaslighting and being EA. ds1 (12) and I sussed out the affair in September but he didn't leave until New Years.

Ex is mad at ds1 and me for exposing the affair to ds2 and dd and throwing him out. Apparently his relationship with OW is boring because its not a secret anymore and I've told her a few home truths like we sleep together at least 3 times a week where as he told her we hadn't shagged in years- lol. He is confused why ds1 doesn't want to see him any more and telling people that I've poisoned his mind. Ex has cancelled the direct debit for ds1's pocket money in an attempt to bribe ds1 to comply but I have simply given ds1 enough self confidence to tell ex to fuck off and given him money myself.

He thinks he's a hero as he's paying maintenance and living in a Travelodge (OW threw him out and he can't be arsed to find a flat)and was shocked that I won't do this washing and ironing any more.

Ex is a project manager and sends me powerpoints and excels with project management speak like milestones to explain financial and access stuff. (Children are like work and not a joy for him) Bizarrely today he sent me his monthly budget in an attempt to get me to feel sorry for him but fuck that. He left and was spending 00s on his affair. I am not going to make his life easier.

Loving the quote about good mothers allowing fathers to be crap. Since the split my sons have really talked to me about their feelings towards ex and me. Im pleased that they both understand how much I treasure and love them.

Currently worried about dd. she's 10 and sees ex EOW and once mid-week. (Shes the only kid to see him regularly) I suspect that ex is feeding her crap. Shes become quite withdrawn and angry with me and her brothers for not throwing ex out and not being able to ignore his twatiness like us. We aren't living in a household of negativity about ex. She starts to talk about past events in a totally different way to how her brothers or I remember and seems to hanker for a past life that didn't happen rather than the fun future that me and her brothers are currently enjoying.

fengirl1 Thu 09-May-13 21:50:48

Dd2 has had a parent's evening tonight.... As it's not local, we ( me and ex) take it in turns to go. Bit of background - she has severe visual impairment, registered blind. She had various assessments when small and I was told she is exceptionally bright...
Various texts going back and forth and then this: 'I remember my father always saying she would surprise us. He was right.' I feel very tempted to reply 'Yes, she is a credit to her mother'! (Who spent hours and hours when she was little encouraging and helping her to make the best use of her sight that she could, referred her to the visual impairment service herself and took her to all of her hospital appointments (bar two) alone....) Grrrr... There's always a way to take the credit isn't there? Quietly seething here whilst also considering telling him he's a pompous prat. grin

NicknameTaken Fri 10-May-13 09:24:00

I'm really encouraged by the posts about older dcs seeing through their (wanker) fathers. DD is 5 and finds it confusing. Her father tries to implant false memories eg. that she was unhappy with the new nursery when I left him and changed her nursery.

During our few direct handovers (most are indirect, through school) she clings to him, refusing to leave him, saying she wants to stay with him, and is very aggressive towards me. I have a bruise on my arm where she bit me, to his unconcealed pleasure. Once he is out of sight, she is fine again, and she has told me that she feels she has to behave in that way to please him.

I'm trying to change the arrangements to avoid the one direct handover we have every two weeks. I find it awful that his ego feeds of her distress during these scenes. He doesn't want to make things as easy as possible for her - he wants to be the central figure in the drama.

I think that explains a lot of the rage felt by exes described on the thread - when you move on, he's not the central figure of the drama, he's not Hamlet, and he cannot bear the humiliation of being reduced to a bit-player in your life.

LineRunner Fri 10-May-13 09:42:46

Yes, Nickname, I think it's very important that handovers become extremely dull.

You know, I think my ExH does feel a sense of humiliation for what he's done, and for how, deep down, he knows that many people see him. It's just a shame that he doesn't blame himself for his own actions, but blames me. So weak. I guess the creation of drama helps them keep up the froth of blame - like Spero says, it's all about what feels good to them.

LineRunner Fri 10-May-13 09:44:32

50Shades, I think receiving powerpoint presentations from your Ex must be up there in the top ten wankinesses!

LineRunner Fri 10-May-13 09:46:23

fengirl, You could perhaps simply reply, 'Yes. Thank you for the compliment. You must feel so adrift at times like this.'

themidwife Fri 10-May-13 10:21:21

I agree Fengirl - reply "thanks, I worked very hard to get her to this stage & it's great that you recognise that". Ha ha take that twunt!!

DoeEyedBeauties Fri 10-May-13 15:42:47

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Spero Fri 10-May-13 17:50:07

I am sorry to hear that. It is tough.

I don't know if it is any consolation, but I think the real grief comes through the loss of the hope and the ideal of the 'lovely family' and the 'nice man'.

i knew what I had wasn't real but I was so desparate to hope it would be so. So when its gone, there is a risk you berate yourself for being stupid to not do anything sooner.

But I hope you can feel less alone reading this, I don't think anyone on this thread comes accross as some stupid, boring person who deserved to be treated like shit. On the contrary, it looks like there are a lot of narcissistic, self absorbed, unreflecting idiots out there and far too many good women have wasted far too much of their precious time trying to pander to their egos.

I hope it is onwards and upwards for you.

Mosschops30 Sat 11-May-13 07:43:31

Just marking my place to read this later

comingintomyown Sat 11-May-13 08:01:55

Sorry to hear that but you are right its more the grief at the end of the dream of a family life etc

Reading these posts has cheered me up this morning and given me a much needed reminder of how our life really was as I have been a bit blue these past few days. I have been single since we split 3 1/2 years ago and feeling the stress of bringing up my 2 teens on my own.

My DD is 14 and doesnt want to spend time at her Dads. Long story short she says hes "Dad" until OW walks in the room and then becomes completely different and she doesnt like that man. I suppose I bought into XHs own PR about how his DC were his life and always come first blah blah when actually its clear OW and her extensive needs come first. It gives me no pleasure though that DD thinks her Dad is a prick as I know how much my own non relationship with my Dad screwed me up.

So much of what has been said rings a bell particularly the early years when he seemed so angry and bitter and it went from him telling people we mutually agreed to split to a year on that I drove him out. Actually what happened was he told me he didnt love me , didnt see any point trying to fix things and then moved out and started a relationship with OW. I too wondered why he wasnt in seventh heaven having got away from me his shit wife to be with his new soul mate who had got him through a dark place. I agree with whoever said he just couldnt cope with the responsibility of leaving his DC and so by concocting this new version of events he could abnegate that responsibility.

I have to get ready for work now but heres a quick addition to the last shag stories. Whilst in the middle of said act (I did know he was leaving) he said to me "Heres a souvenir for you" . Enough said.

LineRunner Sat 11-May-13 14:42:02

comingintomyown, He sounds extremely manipulative. I think you are definitely better off without that in your life.

Alone with two teens is bloody hard though. But it would be harder with a master of manipulation in the house, I'm pretty sure.

My DS is currently very sad that he thinks his dad's a prick, and it seems to be hurting everyone except his dad, who doesn't seem to think it's his problem. Apparently if the ExH can blame me for every emotion ever felt by any member of the human race, that makes his life feel ok.

NicknameTaken Mon 13-May-13 11:35:04

Question - if your dc came home and said daddy was hitting them, what would you do?

My dd is 5, and says her father slaps her on the face and squeezes her wrist. I went to the GP and ask for a ss referral before Christmas last year. The sw interviewed dd and then ex, and said "Well, he denies it and they look fine together". My ex has a history of making malicious accusations against me, and it seems to be written off as tit for tat.

We have a mediation session today (court-ordered, because the bloody sw reported that the only problem is our lack of communication), and I'm going to raise it there (and frankly, I would be very happy if the mediator decided independently it was a child protection issue and flagged it herself). I can ask the school if they have a safeguarding person who might talk to dd.

I can't just stop contact - exH has made loads of false allegations that I block contact and is trying to be made residential parent on that basis. I really need ss behind me, but it feels like the only way to get them behind me (or rather dd) is for someone else to flag their concerns, because mine don't seem to be taken seriously.

What else can I do?

themidwife Mon 13-May-13 13:30:43

Nickname - as your DD is still 5 go & talk to the Senior Family Support Worker/Manager at your nearest children's centre. I'm sure they will have advice about who can help you. You can request a CAFCASS referral so they can advise & support you through this too.

Spero Mon 13-May-13 13:58:19

Nickname, I am sorry to hear that. Handovers sound horrendous. I would definitely raise this with the mediator. This is emotional abuse, it is awful that she has to feel she needs to act this way and it must be hard for you to endure.

Is there anyway handovers can be carried out by someone else, at least for a while? The problem is that SS are unlikely to have energy or resources to help you as the thresholds for their interventions are pretty high and if they see a little girl who seems happy to be with her dad they will probably just shrug and move on.

NicknameTaken Mon 13-May-13 14:09:23

Thanks, both. themidwife, the judge outright refused a CAFCASS referral, on the basis that ss had already looked at the situation and hadn't found a safeguarding issue. My sol reckons that it's a three line whip on judges not to make CAFCASS referrals in anything other than the most severe case, as they are so overstretched. I hadn't thought of the children's centre - good idea, thanks.

Spero, "shrug and move on" is just what it feels like. I raised it with the mediator, and it was discussed (he of course denied it and said it was all me, blah blah) and we will have an outcome statement that says we both disavow the use of physical punishment. I don't know if it will make much difference - maybe he'll think twice.

Nobody to do handovers - neither of us have family in the area. I don't have friends who could do it. Most of our handovers are via school, and I'm going to try to get the last remaining direct one switched to school.

Mediation now officially over so looks like it will be a full court hearing.

themidwife Mon 13-May-13 16:52:05

Women's Aid may also be helpful with advice?

olgaga Mon 13-May-13 16:58:51

You might have a look at Rights of Women (they have a family law advice line) and Maypole too.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Mon 13-May-13 17:00:52

Dear Linerunner

You are so wise and expressive on here.

He, OTOH, is not. No insight.

It's a shame for him really - yours will be the happier life, and the more giving.

LineRunner Mon 13-May-13 18:04:26

You know, Nickname, there came a point in my dealings with ExH where he went too far and one day I simply called the police.

Jamie, aiming for happy!

NicknameTaken Tue 14-May-13 10:45:44

Thanks for the suggestions. Police involved once, long ago, regarding me not dd. Don't want dd to be in that position, but the day might come.

Ezza1 Wed 15-May-13 00:01:08

Wow. Before reading through this thread I really thought I was alone in all the shite my exH has spouted over the last 12 years. I thought I had a unique, embittered twat of an exH but I have been enlightened!

Last day sex - check. (he told me he had sex with me to make me feel less ugly...pleasant)

Rewriting the past - check. I've been like this hmm over the years when the DCs have been recounting certain things their dad has told them.

Total bitching about me to anyone (including the DCs) about everything - check.

Threats of custody/social services - check.

The DCs are 15 and 12 now. ExH still kicks up a fuss about nothing every now and then.

I moved on the minute he moved out and in with the OW. He thoroughly dislikes that.

I've brought the DCs up single handedly. DCs are intelligent, thoughtful, kind, mature and altogether lovely children. I have a wonderful, close relationship with them both. ExH was hoping for delinquents to prove my supposed inadequacies and failings. He was also hoping to make them hate me with his bullshit. I've proved him wrong and he is seething.

I'm in a long term relationship, have another child and another on the way. Thats wrong too - "stupid cow, how could she do that in the middle of your GCSEs" (said to DC1) confused

Wow again!

LineRunner Wed 15-May-13 19:45:52

Crikey, Ezza, did the Exes go to the same Twat School?

ExH was hoping for delinquents to prove my supposed inadequacies and failings

My ExH referred to his own, lovely children as 'messed up' in one of his ridiculous contact hearings.

Wow indeed.

LineRunner Sat 18-May-13 19:34:12

And many thanks once again to everyone who has posted on this thread. It has been incredibly helpful, going through a fairly difficult time of late, and I am going to read it right through again over the weekend. Thanks all flowers

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