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So upset, don't think dp ever has any intention of marrying me

(80 Posts)
Smiledisarm Tue 30-Apr-13 19:02:21

Long story short, dp and I are in process of buying a house. Got mortgage agreed in principle and found our dream house. Then mortgage collapsed because I'm not currently working meaning dp would have to get the mortgage in his name only. Theoretically we could still move into dream house together but then I'm legally in shit creek without a paddle if ever we broke up. I'd have no legal claim on the house, anything in it or any money put into it if ever we broke up,
So naturally I'm worrying, nervous and reconsidering everything. Dp doesn't understand why as he says he's 100% commuted to me, loves me to bits and sees a long, bright future for us. This doesn't help me legally and do I said I do sometimes worry about his commitment to me (as he can be unpredictable and analyses everything often shedding doubt on our relationship. He insists he is commuted and asks what he can do to prove that .... Isn't it obvious??? I feel so sad about it all, everyone around me is either married or engaged, we have never even discussed it. I have brought it up on occasion but he just doesn't see the big deal. If he's 100% committed to me, is it do unreasonable??

Smiledisarm Tue 30-Apr-13 19:03:43

Apologies about typos, I'm on phone

Smiledisarm Tue 30-Apr-13 19:05:57

When I say I've brought it up I mean I have made it clear that I'd like to get married one day (to which I get a "that's nice dear" type response and I once asked if he'd ever remarry to which he said "probably" and then waffled on about something insignificant

OldLadyKnowsNothing Tue 30-Apr-13 19:06:52

On a purely practical note, your name can be on the deeds of the house without being on the mortgage.

And you could always actually propose to him. grin

Earlybird Tue 30-Apr-13 19:08:54

How long have you been together?
How long have you been out of work?
How old are you?

If marriage is in your future with dp, then it should be done at the right time for the right reasons. Getting married so you can be on the deeds of a house is not the right timing (or reason) imo.

spicegirl13 Tue 30-Apr-13 19:09:43

How long have you been together? My DH was like this for years, he eventually proposed after 10 years (we'd bought a house together in the meantime)

VenusRising Tue 30-Apr-13 19:10:38

I'm so sorry, you do seem very upset.

You may well need to spell it out to him, and make a date in the registry office to sign the forms.

Or have a romantic day, with a church service etc.

Have a chat with a paper and markers: draw all the things that pop into your mind when you go through a list of words that have to do with marriage, swap pages with your dp.

You may well be surprised at what conversations come out of it. Using drawings makes it more fun and may help you to explore the situation and resolve your problem, without resorting to wordy conversations full of resentments and blame gaming.

Good luck!

KingRollo Tue 30-Apr-13 19:11:13

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JennyMackerz Tue 30-Apr-13 19:11:53

oh honey {hug} I was in these shoes about 12 years ago. 13. I felt so uncomfortable with it. But he had an answer for everything. A reasonable, logical answer for everything.

You will probably totally dismiss everything I'm saying but i would
1) go back to work and insist that childcare is shared
2) use your money to pay a mortgage on a small one bedroom flat or whatever you can afford.

I would tell him that you want to get married! I read through your post and the second time I'm thinking your situation different as you haven't even raised marriage with him?

Have you told him you want to get married?

Do. You must tell him what you want. Dont' be ashamed of having needs. I used to confuse being nice with having no needs.

You're not crazy or needy to want to get married.

However, if he makes you feel perpetually insecure because he won't marry you, or 'grateful' for the half a bone you're tossed, then decide that you can't prioritise this man in your life. You can't pin your life and security on a man who won't commit to you or put your name on the mortgage.

words are easy. It is so easy to say 'oh i love you sugar plum'.

Smiledisarm Tue 30-Apr-13 19:12:05

No I don't want to get married because of the house, just eventually or at some point - the fact that he never even brought it up when talking about our "long and bright future" saddens me because I don't think he ever has any intention of it. Now I know he's desperate to get this house so I'm worried if I bring the marriage thing up he'll pretend that's what he wants so we can secure the house. I just wish he loved me enough to see how important it is to me.

JennyMackerz Tue 30-Apr-13 19:14:16

oh. hang on. REmarry? This is sliiiiightly different I think. Do you have a child with him?

Weegiemum Tue 30-Apr-13 19:14:51

I'm on the deeds of both our properties (both marital home and previous marital home now a holiday let). But I'm not earning anything apart from my DLA. You can be on deeds without financial contribution.

JennyMackerz Tue 30-Apr-13 19:16:30

I think you have to tell him that a future of uncertainty is not 'long and bright' from your perspective! it is uncertain and unsettling!!!

There is also a large side order of rejection to go alongside the uncertainty so I can understand why you have put 'long and bright future' in to inverted commas.

JennyMackerz Tue 30-Apr-13 19:17:15

Tell him with a 'bright' smile that your name can be on the deeds for the house too!

Smiledisarm Tue 30-Apr-13 19:19:00

No we both have children to past relationships and will be having no more either way. He was married a long time before and I know it's stupid but this upsets me too - he thought someone else was good enough to marry and her name was on the mortgages etc etc - they had the years of commitment, the "mr and mrs " letters, the "wife/hubby" talk ... Will I never have that with him? Maybe I'm hormonal but I just want to cry. 33 and never even been engaged. I know marriage is no bed of roses or fairytale but god I think I deserve a shot at it.

KingRollo Tue 30-Apr-13 19:23:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Spero Tue 30-Apr-13 19:23:34

If you both can't talk about this, then this is a worrying sign for the relationship.

Tell him how you feel. A good relationship is all about communication. I pussyfooted around with this issue for years - turned out he just didn't love me enough. I wish I had had the guts for a real and honest conversation at a much earlier stage.

There is nothing unreasonable about being upset that your partner not only doesn't appear to want to marry you, but also won't talk to you about it. If it upsets you, it is an important issue for both of you, just as you would listen with respect and love to any issue that was important to him.

I get where you're coming from. But it doesn't seem like he understands how important this is to you so you're going to have to spell it out.

KingRollo Tue 30-Apr-13 19:25:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JennyMackerz Tue 30-Apr-13 19:25:28

oh right.

Well in that case I'd tell him that as gorgeous as the dream house is, you want to co-own your dream house, even if it's a smaller and cheaper house.

At least you don't have children with him.

KingRollo Tue 30-Apr-13 19:25:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Smiledisarm Tue 30-Apr-13 19:27:10

And he'll either laugh at me or act in pure horror at the very suggestion. Both responses will definitely tip me over the edge and have me in tears :-(

JennyMackerz Tue 30-Apr-13 19:28:15

Spero says she pussyfooted around the issue for years and wishes she'd had the guts for a real and honest conversation years earlier. I agree with that statement. Don't be afraid to start a conversation that will give you the information you need to decide what to do.

KingRollo Tue 30-Apr-13 19:31:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Smiledisarm Tue 30-Apr-13 19:33:42

My cousin and her partner discuss marriage all the time. They're not intending to get married for another year or do but at least they can discuss it. I feel like I can't do that with dp as he freaks out and says I'm "rushing him" but surely buying a house together is just as much of a commitment?

JennyMackerz Tue 30-Apr-13 19:34:23

I agree with that Kingrollo. The uncertainty when you want certainty, it's torture. Or it becomes torture.

Is being divorced better than never having married?!

KingRollo Tue 30-Apr-13 19:36:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Spero Tue 30-Apr-13 19:38:00

Do NOT buy a house with someone you can't have a conversation with about issue that matter.

In fact, don't be in a relationship with them. Been there, got T shirt.

It is a recipe for misery and wasted years.

mamapants Tue 30-Apr-13 19:40:28

Putting your name on the deeds is fairly straightforward think it requires you both to seperately meet with solicitors and then a fee of 30 to change the deeds.

As he has stated that he can see a long and happy future together then I would hazard a guess this has more to do with his failed marriage than a lack of love towards you.

I know my DP feels that marriage doesn't mean anything having gone through a failed one and he has an emotional resentment towards it. He does know that I'd like to get married in the future though and he has even lOoked for engagement rings but he isn't quite ready to go beyond that. But I do know how he feels as we've spoken about it properly even discussing details of the wedding we would like. I think the important thing is for you to talk about it as it clearly means a lot to you.

KingRollo Tue 30-Apr-13 19:40:32

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Phineyj Tue 30-Apr-13 19:40:39

You don't have to get married to protect any financial stake you have in the house (presumably you will contribute to decorating, repairs, furniture etc from time to time?) You can get a Tenants in Common Agreement for the house spelling out what you would get if you split or if it was sold. A solicitor can do it - it's not expensive. If your DP won't even discuss doing that I'd be concerned.

CitizenOscar Tue 30-Apr-13 19:41:27

I had the same as Spero - even bought a house by myself when I'd have been happy to put ex-DP on the deeds if he'd seemed more committed. So glad I didn't!

I'd hinted and been as obvious as I could but didn't want to set ultimatums or try to pin him down.

Anyway, things finally came to a head when we were 29 (after 8 years) and we broke up and within 4 months we'd both met future spouses and were married within 2.5 years.

Marriage isn't for everyone but I think you do need to have a serious straightforward conversation with your DP about the specifics of your future. You can be put on the deeds of the house but it seems like the issue goes deeper than that so you do need to know how DP feels and he needs to be aware how important it is to you.

You'll need to think about why it's so important to you and also be able to listen (as calmly as possible) to DP's reasons for (possibly) not being so keen. Then you can work out where to go from there.

Good luck.

mrspaddy Tue 30-Apr-13 19:41:45

If you want to marry him.. I wouldn't accept just buying a house. Some men don't want to marry. You need to find out straight and clear what the story is. Don't waste years of your life waiting to be asked -like I did-

JennyMackerz Tue 30-Apr-13 19:44:34

kingrollo & spero, have the t-shirt too. I have only been in one relationship since my x but we talked about everything that we wanted so frankly. it was such a relief.

Spero Tue 30-Apr-13 19:46:20

The house issue was a way for my ex to fob me off. Of course I am committed to you! We own a house together!

Except houses can be sold. Then suddenly we didn't own a house together. And when I finally plucked up courage to say I wanted to be married he said he didn't want to marry 'anyone' .

As the mother of his child I had rather hoped to be more than just 'anyone'.

So due to my cowardice and head in the sand attitude I have a daughter whose father lives on other side of world and she suffers for it.

If he loves you, if this relationship is real, he will talk to you about things that matter to YOU. I don't give a shit what his views on 'marriage' are - YOU are upset and he needs to hear you.

KingRollo Tue 30-Apr-13 19:46:37

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AThingInYourLife Tue 30-Apr-13 19:47:55

Whatever you do, don't go along with this ridiculous plan of having no legal claim to "your" house.

He has a fucking cheek asking that of you.

EleanorFarjeon Tue 30-Apr-13 19:50:56

Perhaps he doesn't want to get married again as he was married before and it didn't work out?

My cousin is in a similar situation. He's divorced & his partner very much wants to be married to him. But he feels that he should only have had one shot at marriage, which in his case, didn't work out. He's very principled, his partner doesn't get it, but I sort of do.

He's committed to her but feels a hypocrite to promise a life long committment to her when he broke the same promise to his first wife. As someone else said upthread, the meaning of marriage has changed for him.

Spero Tue 30-Apr-13 19:54:34

His views on marriage are utterly irrelevant at this stage.

It is the fact that he won't discuss them and the op feels she can't ask. That is the massive unfurling red flag here.

WorrySighWorrySigh Tue 30-Apr-13 20:00:46

A house purchase is a commitment to the mortgage company only.

Spero Tue 30-Apr-13 20:05:55

Hah! Exactly.

Snazzynewyear Tue 30-Apr-13 20:06:21

I think you need to be upfront about this now. Sit him down and say that you are uncomfortable about some of the contradictions that seem to have come up in your relationship - that he 'sees a long future' for you but also seems very evasive where marriage is concerned. Say straight out that you really want to get married and want to know where he stands on that. Then take some time to think over his response, whatever it is. Do not be rushed into anything where the house is concerned.

WorrySighWorrySigh Tue 30-Apr-13 20:19:15

If he is of the view that marriage wont increase his commitment as his commitment is 100% then it wouldnt matter to him if he did marry you so there would be no problem in marrying you. If he isnt prepared to do this then I would suspect that his commitment is rather less than 100%.

Why not propose to him and see what his reaction is?

I proposed to my DH just before we bought our first house. If I hadnt asked we wouldnt be married now (21 years later). DH couldnt see the point then but certainly does now.

Smiledisarm Tue 30-Apr-13 20:24:19

Ok I'm going to bring it up tonight, tell him it's what I want in my future and I need to know where he stands on that. Watch this space, I will update later and possibly need his reaction analysed lol

Spero Tue 30-Apr-13 20:39:24

Good luck. Well done on being brave. You do need to know where you stand. I think men are quite prone to just letting relationships drift along.

cinnamonsugar Tue 30-Apr-13 20:44:04

Watch this space, I will update later and possibly need his reaction analysed
There's not much to analyse about this kind of talk. If it's a yes, it's a yes. Anything other than a yes is a no. Good luck wine flowers

racmun Tue 30-Apr-13 20:48:48

Your name can't be on the house if you're not in the mortgage.

You can have a trust deed drawn up which is a side agreement between you and your partner setting our how the proceeds will be split. You would need to register a Restriction on the title which effectively means he can't sell without your consent. This would probably need mortgage co's consent though which may cause an issue.

If you live in the house without being on the mortgage then you will need to sign an occupies waiver form postponing any rights you may acquire behind those of the mortgage co. this basically means they can get you out if they need to repossess.

On another matter are you sure you can't be in the mortgage. I don't earn anymore but I'm on the mortgage and title is in our joint names if they'll lend to dp anyway it shouldn't make any difference.

Squitten Tue 30-Apr-13 21:01:10

Firstly, are you certain that you can't be on the mortgage? I'm a SAHM and our mortgage is in both names and always has been. I really would enquire further into that.

Secondly, I hope your DP gives you the answers you want. His reaction to the issue will tell you a lot

KingRollo Wed 01-May-13 06:08:16

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Smiledisarm Wed 01-May-13 08:14:16

Well there was a visible recoil upon the mere mention of it (would have been comical if it wasn't so upsetting!) and his reply was "eerrrr .... Dunno .... Can't even begin to think about that right now, I've just come out of a long marriage (divorced 3 years ago) which I couldn't wait to get out of". So basically I told him how important it was to me just to have that common goal for the future and he said he has tons of issues about marriage due to his last one so can't hand on heart promise it will ever happen for us ... But he wouldn't rule it out.
Upset but at least I know where I stand I suppose.

Llareggub Wed 01-May-13 08:19:41

So where do you go from here?

Smiledisarm Wed 01-May-13 08:28:31

Not really sure, he did say if it was that important to me he probably would to keep me happy but that it will always be nothing more than a bit of paper to him. Not quite the marriage I had in mind.

WorrySighWorrySigh Wed 01-May-13 08:32:34

Is he willing to go down the 'non married but as secure as you can be' route?

- mutual wills
- statements about being Next of Kin for each other
- naming you as beneficiary for his pension

That kind of thing?

If not then in your shoes I would not be looking to make any long term commitments in terms of having children or making anything other than day to day contributions to the running of the household.

WorrySighWorrySigh Wed 01-May-13 08:35:10

My DH went along with marrying me because it was what I wanted (I did the asking). Over the years he has come to realise that it is a lot more than just a bit of paper.

I actually think if someone has been through a bad, unhappy or disastrous marriage it is understandable that they might not want to repeat or are wary of the experience. I also know people who took their vows very seriously, are devastated the marriage failed, and don't believe they can make the vows again.

I also understand that for some people being married means a lot. I'm not sure whether I see it as the dealbreaker some do, IF there is total parity - jointly owned property, mutual wills, pensions etc as worry said.

As was said earlier, you can be on deeds and mortgages without being married. My ex and I weren't married but we were 50% each tenants in common and owned a properly equally.

I know many couples who aren't married who have been together 10, 15, 20, 25 years. I know a lot of couples who married and didn't reach their 7th anniversary.

diddl Wed 01-May-13 08:59:31

But it has been three years!

And it is marriage to his ex that went wrong.

Doesn't mean that marriage to OP will.

That's such a fucking cop out.

MorrisZapp Wed 01-May-13 09:00:23

I can see his point. If the vows etc of marriage can be broken easily then why make them again.

I'm not married. DP and I have been together for 14 years. We have a house together, and now wee DS too. We're both in it for the long haul. I feel happy and secure.

I don't know why women want/need the whole Mrs thing to feel loved and valued. I've got my own identity just like he has, but we're no less committed than our married friends, who break up just as easily and regularly as our unmarried ones.

diddl - we are ALL different. If someone has a bad experience they are perfectly entitled not to repeat it, whether it's going on a rollercoaster at Alton Towers, flying, or marriage. Doesn't matter whether it is one year, three years or ten years. Of course it's not a fucking cop-out, it's how THEY feel and they are entitled to that, just as the OP is entitled to feel marriage is essential for her.

And for some, those vows ARE very important. Personally, I find it odd that people will marry for a third time if they have been divorced twice, as it suggests the vows mean absolutely nothing. I also have an issue with people who agree to get married just because the other person wants it, for again, it surely indicates the vows and the act actually mean nothing to them.

Some people DO only see marriage as a bit of paper - for them, being with someone who loves them and who they love is sufficient. That's perfectly fine too.

It all comes down to a question of whether it is a dealbreaker for the OP. If there is no movement on his side and for her being with him and in love with him without being married isn't enough, then she should leave and find someone who does want to get married, just as people would say if she wanted children and he didn't.

But it isn't necessarily a dealbreaker for everyone.

littlecrystal Wed 01-May-13 09:13:18

I can also see his point even though I understand the wish to get married. Could you do some sort of blessing at church instead of full marriage, to have that white dress day?
I also suggest to get a job so you don't need to depend on your partner.

Don’t waste time on a man who at best can offer you a “maybe” to having a future with him. He may well marry again - but not to you.

Nicole007 Wed 01-May-13 09:22:27

If its just the legal position thing that worries u for not much money u can get a joint tenants/ tenants in common agreement draw up at solicitors which outlines who puts in what and who gets what in result of breakup/ sale of property to protect u given that u are not married. I did this before I married my now DH. Not expensive to do.

BTW you can still be added to the mortgage even though you are not working.

diddl Wed 01-May-13 09:26:17

Yes of course we are different, and it didn't work for him before.

But it's a whole new set of circs now.

It wasn't the marriage certificate that made it go wrong, butthe people involved.

I'm not married to feel loved & valued-I wanted to be next of kin & for children to be recognised as my husband's at birth-not for him to have to declare that he was the father.

Living with someone wasn't for me & I met someone who felt the same.

That's the problem, isn't it-different "values"?

Would hint to me at being incompatible tbh.

diddl - Indeed. But different values do not necessarily mean it's a "fucking cop out".

Branleuse Wed 01-May-13 09:35:47

if you care more about the marriage than the partner and the relationship, then the relationship is fucked anyway.

Branleuse Wed 01-May-13 09:38:11

marriage is not a commitment. you can get divorced easy as pie.
people get married and divorced all the time.

commitment is trust.
if you don't trust he wants to stay with you without marriage then it holds no hope for a marriage lasting anyway

noddyholder Wed 01-May-13 10:00:39

Wait until you are back at work and then make that commitment to buying a house together. Why don't women ever think of getting their finances etc straight regardless of a man? My dp would marry I wouldn't and he had to accept that for us to stay together but I do not rely on him financially at all and my day to day life from that POV would be unchanged if we split

noddyholder Wed 01-May-13 10:03:05

Also why do you think he is not worried about the 'legals'?

cuillereasoupe Wed 01-May-13 18:05:47

I'm going to go against the grain: his desire not to get married is equally valid to your desire to get married and by no means can it be taken as a sign that he isn't committed. But you do need to talk about it.

ShatterResistant Wed 01-May-13 18:26:38

Something for you to consider, gleaned from my own sorry past: is this long, bright future of which he speaks contingent on you suppressing all your wants and needs? (I have read your dog thread.) Also, IMO, buying a house with someone is a huge commitment, with potentially life-long financial consequences. That applies even more if you're putting cash down but name won't even be on the deeds!!

EvenBetter Wed 01-May-13 18:47:24

Judging by your other thread, he doesn't consider your dreams or views valid or significant at all. Theres a unanimous AIBU verdict saying you should run for the hills on just a few details, I suspect a more in depth depiction of your boyfriends behaviour would be even worse.

Spero Wed 01-May-13 18:55:56

So he won't even discuss getting the dog you want? Are you not seeing the pattern yet?

Squitten Wed 01-May-13 19:02:25

Just read your AIBU thread.

Your problems are bigger than this OP.

KeepCoolCalmAndCollected Wed 01-May-13 19:40:57

Sorry this looks as negative as it gets. The reason you have posted is because your instincts are strongly telling you something is very very wrong.
ALWAYS trust your instincts.
He wants his cake and he wants to eat it.
Have pride and be strong otherwise he will always keep you dangling after him. He will always have the upper hand and be in control.
Please do not be fooled.

AnyFucker Wed 01-May-13 19:55:20

two threads and OP not returning to either of them ?

love, I know you are reading

listen

just listen, before you make a massive mistake

do you think all these women on this thread (and the other) wouldn't want to see a happy ending ?

they would

but they won't see it here, and neither will you sad

Pandemoniaa Wed 01-May-13 20:55:26

Marriage is supposed to be a state entered into willingly. There are plenty of reasons why people might be reluctant to marry but this reluctance doesn't necessarily mean they are incapable of committing to a permanent relationship. Also, imho, a marriage that you've had to force someone into will not make you feel any more secure emotionally even if it does tie up some legal loose ends.

Spero Wed 01-May-13 21:03:08

She is not trying to force him into marriage, just wants a discussion about the future of their relationship and why he won't marry her when it makes her sad he won't. All perfectly reasonable wants.

But add this to he dog thread and the writing is on the wall in letters thirty foot high.

DontmindifIdo Wed 01-May-13 21:18:07

right, you can either go down "the just a piece of paper" route - so just a registery office do, stress the legal side, what happens if he dies or you do, next of kin issues etc.

Or you can carry on as you are, but then you need to consider that whatever he says his actions are showing he wants to be able to get out of yoru relationship as easily as possible, so he must be considering that you aren't forever. Therefore, back to work as soon as possible, even if in the short term with childcare it doesn't make much sense, longer term you might need that security. I'd hold back your deposit and buy a buy to let if you can. It at least will give you something should he decide to throw you and your DCs out.

I'd be quite happy to tell him you are arranging things this way. He can't expect you to commit to him if he's not prepared to commit to you.

DontmindifIdo Wed 01-May-13 21:18:42

oh, and buying a house is not a commitment to you, it's a commitment to the mortgage company and a financial investment. Not a sign of a long and happy future together.

lemonstartree Wed 01-May-13 22:43:27

I believe that my DP is as perfect for me as you can get. I adore him and want to be with him forever; but I have been married before and once you strip out the romance, marriage is a legal contact with financial obligations (on both sides) You CANT get divorced as 'easy as pie" Its a complex , often painful, expensive and difficult experience. I also have this issue about vows. My ExH did not respect his vows and so we were divorced; but I still have an issue with doing the whole 'till death us do part' again. Because if DP behaved to me as ExH did I would dump him quick smart, vows or no vows.... so marriage is about TRUST, and legal stuff and money - and not romance.

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