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Married men lie!

(75 Posts)
Destinysdaughter Tue 23-Apr-13 01:24:18

Not sure if I will get any compassionate responses on here but having read so many wise posts on here from women who have given their support to others I thought I would give it a go. But totally expect to get flamed for this. So, 22 months ago I met a man on the Internet who told me when we first met that he had been divorced for 3 years. When I was at his flat it was obvious he lived there alone, it was a one bedroom flat with no sign of a woman being there. We saw each other for 6 months on an NSA basis, always during the week, at weekends he was always staying with friends or seeing his adult kids even tho they still lived with his wife. We had long conversations about why his marriage had ended ( grew apart, lack of sex etc) and I had no reason to disbelieve him

However over time I realised I was falling for him. Is not what you are supposed to do when it is just NSA and I never had the confidence to tell him. I had been made redundant and my plan was to go off travelling to India. He knew this from early on and even tho I had said, come out and have a holiday with me he had always said it wouldn't be possible. 

So, I had been in India for 3 weeks and he emails me saying can he come and visit me for 3 weeks.  Well, I was over the moon and said yes that would be lovely! So I book a flight back from where I was to the ashram he wante to visit, booked a lovely hotel and booked him a taxi from the airport. To do this, I needed his flight details to give to the taxi driver. He was procrastinating about this but eventually he sent them to me. But it was a completely different name from the name he had given me! His rationale for this was that a few years ago he had met a woman who had ended up being a bit of a stalker and as he had quite a high profile job, when he met women on this NSA website he had used a false name in case it happened again. But then he said, and there's more... What could that be I wondered? Obviously it had to be another woman, but I really didn't think it would be that he was still married as he had categorically told me he had been divorced for 3 years. 

It took him a few days but eventually he admitted that yes he was actually still married!! But that it was loveless, sexless, that all she did was walk the dog and do crosswords and that being with me had brought him alive again.  His rationale for not telling me was that if he had told me initially them I wouldn't have started seeing him in the first place ( true) and because he thought it was only ever going to be a short term fling that he didn't need to tell me and didn't realize that he would end up falling for me...! Furthermore he said he wanted to come out to India to see if there was any chance that we could be something more than NSA...

I didn't know what to do, I was shocked, wanted to believe him as I adored him but felt angry at being deceived and very wary and cautious.  I had also booked all these arrangements to go to see him and he had already booked his flight. So, what to do? I decided I wanted to hear his reasons face to face and that even if it didn't work out, we would have a lovely time for a few weeks together and then that would be it. 

So I met him, we had 3 amazing weeks together and by the end of it we both admitted we were in love with each other. I said to him, please work out your marital problems before considering a relationship with me but he said at the end of the holiday that he saw his future with me and wanted to end his marriage to be with me. A day after he got back to the UK he told me that he had told his wife which I was totally shocked at as I didn't think he would have the balls to do that!

But weirdly she ( according to him) seemed to accept it. She didn't want a divorce and she accepted the fact that her own behaviour had contributed to him having an affair...! So I carried on travelling round India for the next 2 and a half months, we texted, emailed or spoke every single day during that time and he constantly told me how much he loved/ missed me all the time. He said he wasn't having sex with his wife and one time he sent me a photo of him in his garden, taken by his wife as apparently she thought it would be nice for me to see a photo of him..!!! ( swear I am not making this up, it didn't make sense to me either...)

So, he had said that when I came back to the Uk I could stay in his flat (I had had to give up my place in order to travel for 4 months) and so that was what I was expecting when I came back. However the week before I was due back he started backtracking, saying that he didn't want to feel 'trapped' and that most weekends he wouldn't be there and that on x date I couldn't stay there as they would be going to the Chelses flower show and on that date they would be going to the proms/ jubilee etc ( this when apparently in the last 3 years his wife had only come up to his flat in town 3 times...). So huge red flags and was tempted to end it then and there but had nowhere else to go and it had only been a week before he was telling me how much he missed me etc...

So as soon as I saw him at the airport I knew things had changed. Just the look in his eyes, evasive, anxious, couldn't hold my gaze. Unfortunately I was really ill, I had already lost 2 stone in India through constant stomach bugs and was suffering with severe diorrhea, a bladder infection and dehydration and all I wanted to do was rest. Was really not up for conflict or a deep conversation ending in it finishing. ( also to add, the only other place I had to go and stay was with my abusive father who was now suffering with dementia, in a very deprived city in the north, a v depressing prospect) 

So I stayed with him the next 6 weeks. The first 3 weeks he would go home at weekends, the last 3 weeks he wasn't there at all! Reasons were, diy needed doing, son was going to be home, builders round etc.  So eventually I realised that he was a bloody cake eater, that while I had been in India, he and his wife had repaired their marriage and that although he didn't want to lose me ( and the sex) he was not going to leave his wife. So I left.  Packed up my stuff day before he was due to come back, wrote him an email and went.

To my shame, 6 weeks later I went back to him after endless emails about how much he loved me, thought about me constantly, couldn't live without me etc. I had never have someone say those kinds of things to me before, felt flattered, wanted to believe him, even met his wife on 3 occasions to see if we could work it so we could both see him! ( weirdly she didn't resent me and didn't want me to stop seeing him as he had been so awful to be around when I had ended it before...)

There is so so much more I could write but I've written to much already.  Suffice it to say I finally ended if for good ( after 9 attempts) on 1st Jan as I knew it was destrying me, as he would say one thing and do another, lied, told me he had been unfaithful throughout the whole of his 27 year marriage, never prioritise me, didn't come see me on my bday even tho I was only ten mins away... And so many other things...

So new years eve I was so miserable I decided I had to end it as I knew if I didn't I could be in exactly the same situation in a years time and I didn't want that. So I ended it, it was so hard, was like a bereavement as I did truly love him. Jan was awful but I do feel better than I was.  Only thing is I feel this overwhelming anger towards him for lying and letting me down and for wasting so much of my life. I also feel really weak and stupid for believing him and terrible for adding to the betrayal of another woman, something I never ever thought I would do. I feel quite vengeful towards him as he has got away with everything and deeply hurt 2 women he claims to love. 

I am writing this to maybe get other people's perspective on this and how I can get over this, but also to say that married men LIE!! And lie and lie. So to all you women who ( understandably) hate the ow, they will have been told so many lies about the wife and the marriage that they can be victims in all this too...

LuisGarcia Tue 23-Apr-13 02:02:07

married men angry

jaywall Tue 23-Apr-13 03:35:53

Some people can say anything to get what they want, this is not exclusive to married men.

jaywall Tue 23-Apr-13 03:36:26

I'm sorry for your troubles.

Leavenheath Tue 23-Apr-13 03:38:31

Yeah right - and women who believe them are stupid or like to pretend they are, what's your point?

If this guy had dumped his wife for you once you knew he was married, you'd have overlooked all his lies to you and especially his lies to her, so quit with the attempt to extract any sympathy.

I especially cringed at this bit:

she accepted the fact that her own behaviour had contributed to him having an affair...!

Quite frankly, you should have been shot at dawn for swallowing that pile of tripe alone.

Mosman Tue 23-Apr-13 03:45:57

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Shinigami Tue 23-Apr-13 04:17:43

I'm sorry you're going through this but you stayed with him knowing he was was married. No good can come of it I'm afraid.

Salbertina Tue 23-Apr-13 05:40:32

Am sorry for your suffering also,
Op. You sound heartbroken and deserve more, as does his wife.

I think you're not going to get much constructive support on here tho - too many hurt wives/exes who've suffered through partners' affairs.

Good luck in disentangling fully from life with this selfish man and get as much help as you can.

TheFallenNinja Tue 23-Apr-13 05:43:08

Not all of them. Stupid statement.

jayho Tue 23-Apr-13 06:05:42

You were fine up to the point where you carried on with the meeting in India 'because I had booked all these arrangements'. I know, it's almost impossible not to shag a married man once you have travel arrangements in place.

skaboy Tue 23-Apr-13 07:17:57

Married women (some of them) also lie

Distrustinggirlnow Tue 23-Apr-13 07:23:58

What Mosman says ^^

Are you saying that you didn't know his name...??

History for NSA websites, shag pad in the city, high profile job in finance I expect

Shakes head in disbelief

Lueji Tue 23-Apr-13 07:27:58

Everyone lies. grin

exoticfruits Tue 23-Apr-13 07:36:54

Some people lie, always have and always will and it has nothing to do with gender. It doesn't mean that everyone does.
You have had a dreadful experience, you fell in love and ignored all the warning signs because you didn't want to see them.
There are several times in the story that it should have ended- you ignored your instincts. He wasn't even a good liar.
It is hard now, it is a bereavement losing 'what might of been'. Be kind to yourself, use it as a learning experience and next time be more wary and finish when your instinct tells you rather than place hope over experience.
Hopefully, one day, you will look back on it as a lucky escape.

SmileAndPeopleSmileWithYou Tue 23-Apr-13 07:45:46

What a ridiculous statement to make.

"Married men lie" is about as sensible as the decision Samantha Brick made to say "Women hate me because I'm beautiful".

Salbertina Tue 23-Apr-13 07:53:59

Think Exotic is giving some v wise & kind advice.

Locketjuice Tue 23-Apr-13 08:02:42

I think this is all bullshit smile

bleedingheart Tue 23-Apr-13 08:04:35

He is an utter shit but you knew that already. Really, I had sympathy until you decided to go ahead with the holiday. You met his wife? WTF? Did you have any respect for her at all?
I think you really need to get over the anger you feel at yourself for being duped by him and work on why your self esteem is so low you felt you could share him.
Of course not all married men lie, they aren't all unfaithful cowards either.
The 'deprived Northern town' might not have hotshot bankers with shagpads but maybe you could spend done time there incognito to brood and learn. Get some distance somewhere.

bleedingheart Tue 23-Apr-13 08:05:49

*some time

It does sound like chick lit but nothing surprises me anymore

ExcuseTypos Tue 23-Apr-13 08:16:31

You sound very young and naive.

I'm sorry you have been lied to and hurt, however you knew he was lying and you carried on with the relationship. That was your mistake.

And not all married men lie, many are loyal, faithful and loving.

Lucylloyd13 Tue 23-Apr-13 08:21:22

I understand your angst.

But it strikes me that this is as much about a failed relationship as the deceit of married men.

So you met a man on the internet who wanted NSA, and he turned out to be a lying cheating ar5ehole... and you are surprised????

You decided to carry on a relationship with a man who thought it ok to have his wife and mistress meet, as obviously he was such a catch two women would want him????

I'm a bit stunned tbh. If this story is for real ( which I doubt) I'd say you've had a valuable lesson in the sad reality of life, and will come out of this a much more streetwise person.

Btw I am someone who is in the main sympathetic to ow, as they are largely treated as badly as the wife in the end. It's the men who are to blame.

Mosman Tue 23-Apr-13 08:48:54

It never ceases to amaze me, my ex looks like a mole - literally - is short balding and slightly over weight, was unemployed at the time and yet some 28 year old PHd student managed to find herself with his dick in her mouth after she'd paid half towards the hotel room (WTF???) and then when it all came out, was quite upset about the whole thing apparently.
How do these morons get through their day to day lives ? I know common sense isn't that common but honestly ?

VitoCorleone Tue 23-Apr-13 08:58:39

What a load of baloney. You met his wife, she admitted she played part in him having an affair, you where trying to work out how you could both keep seeing him.

You must be very very gulliable.

meditrina Tue 23-Apr-13 09:06:33

I have some sympathy for you, OP, because he was able to portray himself as available in the early stages and was honest about NSA.

But when it became clear that he wsn't available, and that his capacity for deception was huge (even by cheater's (lackof) standards), then that was the point at which the relationship should have ended.

I'm glad you eventually got yourself out. And I hope you have learned from this, so that if you ever find yourself deceived again, you will have a clearer idea of what you need to do to avoid protracted misery.

Portofino Tue 23-Apr-13 09:11:12

shock

Just coz you are a total sucker, doesn't exonerate you from the fact that you carried on once you knew he was married. That old shite about sexless marriage/together for the kids bull .... I really can't believe women fall for it! He was off limits, married to someone else and you should have backed off.

He is clearly a complete creep, you should perhaps work on your self esteem before you embark on another 'relationship'.

Since when was it okay to call a woman a slut on MN? hmm

OP has obviously made mistakes, definitely when she carried on with the relationship but calling her names is not going to change what has happened.

I can't believe I am going to say this but I think some posters on here need to take a trip to the feminist section!

littlecrystal Tue 23-Apr-13 09:30:31

I feel sorry for OP too. She does sound young and naïve, but that’s the beauty of a human being. I am personally not that young but my first instinct is to believe people’s good intentions and accept that people do make mistakes, but the good comes out when they learn them. However that man was absolutely abysmal and I wished, when reading, that the story had ended as soon as OP found out he was married. I hope OP has learnt her mistake. That man, however, is hopeless. Unfortunately there are many men like that... actually I have met several women who thought their husbands were fantastic, trustworthy, honest, but it all ended when they found they had affairs.. And this is very, very sad.

QueenofWhispers Tue 23-Apr-13 09:35:04

so you met my dad, eh?

i don't know why my mother still stays with him.

x

blueshoes Tue 23-Apr-13 09:36:32

If what you describe is true, this looks like a situation whereby the man really could have had his cake and eat it since his wife is apparently co-operative. He would have been in the sweet spot with his wife and you but he still hemmed and hawed and see-sawed and flip-flopped.

I think you have to accept that whilst he had feelings for you, it was not enough for him to commit to just you. He wants to continue to see other women on the side in his shagpad, is my guess, since he has form for this all his marriage.

The conditions were right for you as OW to be part of his life yet he did not bite. I think that is what hurts you the most about his lies.

Well, that is a cad for you. A total timewaster. You are older and wiser and have (hopefully) not lost too much time on him. The odds are stacked against you as OW, it would be good to bear that in mind going forward, lies or not.

ScrambledSmegs Tue 23-Apr-13 09:50:22

If this is chick-lit OP needs a good proof-reader.

And everyone lies. He doesn't sound like a good one. So what does that make you? Gullible? Deluded? Or were you colluding in the lies?

Tbh I don't care. It's a grubby little story and I feel for the wife. If she's real.

allaflutter Tue 23-Apr-13 12:01:07

I think some people are very naive about the type of marriages excepted by some wives for the MONEY and/or social status that a wealthy H provides, especially when they have kids and a glam social life as a couple, sounds exactly the case with this couple. there are LOTS of such marriages where money is involved, and wives are literally happy to make a deal. She gets the lifestyle and the kids who then go to private schools etc, while she agrees to turn the blind eye, she doesn't usually need sex from him, or possibly has her own bits on the side. It's an arrangement where they get on on practical level, almost like good colleagues. In these situations it's definitely the OW who is the victim, and if she's a normal person, makes her question the sanity of the world or her own, in these screwed up situations, while the couple think all is as it should be. His wife tolerates all these affairs, so no surprise she was fine with meeting OW, to her it's 'so what'.

allaflutter Tue 23-Apr-13 12:01:58

accepted (first sentence), not excepted!

AnyFucker Tue 23-Apr-13 12:09:52

I don't understand why you are posting

Do you think women on the relationships board whose husbands have had affairs need to have it pointed out that some married men lie ?

It's not rocket science

it could be science fiction though

ohforfoxsake Tue 23-Apr-13 12:11:16

I read your OP.

Sorry, but you aren't telling us anything we don't already know - just look at the threads in Relationships.

I don't have much compassion or empathy for you coming on here and telling us your tale. A shit relationship, you got out of it. It happens.

Sorry but I can't fathom out why you think we need to know. It's hardly a revelation. You aren't looking for advice. And I don't really care if I'm honest.

ohforfoxsake Tue 23-Apr-13 12:15:49

Far too many 'sorry's in my post.

Shouldn't be any as I really don't care.

Leavenheath Tue 23-Apr-13 12:34:31

When you read allofaflutter's posts, you can see why these very silly women believe what they want to believe can't you?

There's nothing in the OP's long, tedious ramble to suggest this prick's wife doesn't work and have her own career, yet another poster has written a caricature based on stereotypes about a woman who was willing to accept infidelity in exchange for a nice lifestyle - and infers that posters are "naive" for not realising that there are a lot of women and marriages like that.

As long as there are idiots who believe that Real Women really do nothing but crosswords and dog-walking every day but hate sex, shitty men like this one will get away with it every time. Some women just hate other women and see life as one big competition to show who's "better". They just lap up these stories about women's faults.

Whoever said the feminist section was required reading was right.

Destinysdaughter Tue 23-Apr-13 12:39:12

I was trying to say that mm who have affairs don't only lie, minimise and let down their wives they do it to the women they meet to, to get them hooked in. He admitted he didn't tell me he was still married as he knew I wouldn't have had anything to do with him if i'd known. And ironically I didn't ' destroy their marriage', it actually got a lot better as a result, they started communicating honestly about what had gone wrong in their relationship, she lost weight, got interested in him sexually again, they stopped taking each other for granted, had romantic weekends away, holidays etc. It was a catalyst for both of them to decide what they really wanted and if he hadn't have had the relationship with me their marriage may well have ended as it was in a pretty poor state. I feel pretty used tbh. Not going to post any more

classifiedinformation Tue 23-Apr-13 12:39:14

Yes OP, you have now learnt that you cannot post on the relationships board unless your other half has had an affair, abused you or you have the moral high ground! Your character will be assassinated (usually by the same small group of posters) even though they don't know you and you will be sent on your way with your head hung in shame.

Sorry that this happened to you (and the wife) and wish you all the best in the future.

rubyrubyruby Tue 23-Apr-13 12:44:01

Oh - so you thought that he was capable of lying to someone else but would never lie to you?

allaflutter I disagree - I don't think wives of very wealthy men stay because of the money at all. They may have any number of reasons for putting up with it but I'm not sure money is the incentive. Under UK divorce law they tend to actually be better off divorced than married. They stand to get at least half the assets, child maintenance and spousal maintenance, and what is more they actually have control over how this money is spent. Wealthy husbands are pretty good at controlling how the majority of family money is spent.

On the other hand ow seem to be very motivated by money. It is no coincidence that it is the senior (wealthy) partners and executives in the city who shack up with some (much younger) girl from the office. Such women rarely fall at the feet of the tea boy hmm

posypoppy Tue 23-Apr-13 12:48:54

Op - i suggest you read my post from a few days ago, and yes i do have been flamed, fine i expected it. But like you i can see what i did and the mistakes and looked for support in trying to do the right thing, which if you want to siton your moral high horse all day from the santury of your own perfect marriage and call us naive, and stupid and young and sluts...well go right ahead. But I know that i am not young or stupid and i dont suppose the Op is either. People get into all sorts of situations , sometimes emotions blindside us,
please private message me if you want support, several people have and have been amazing. I am on day 3 of no contact and it hurts like hell. i know how you feel, and to all the preaching posters if you havent ever done something stupid in the throes of passion....well bully for you

Lueji Tue 23-Apr-13 12:57:49

Not going to quote the latest OP's post, but:
grin
hmm
biscuit

AnyFucker Tue 23-Apr-13 12:58:34

Oh, ok.

You did their marriage a favour, after all ?

That's ok then

Leavenheath Tue 23-Apr-13 13:00:48

Nah I think everyone's got it in them to stupid things when lust is involved. What I take issue with are the ones who try to make out that they are victims of men lying to them. It suits them just fine when the man's lying to some other poor sucker, insanely it even suits some of them when he's lying to them shock but what really makes them angry is when a man won't dump his wife in favour of them. That's when they suddenly get all judgey about lies and how terrible they are. hmm

Lueji Tue 23-Apr-13 13:03:20

And then post in forums as if they had just discovered the cure for cancer.

Leavenheath Tue 23-Apr-13 13:09:40

grin Too right Lueji!

ScrambledSmegs Tue 23-Apr-13 13:23:53

Wow. So you saved their marriage? How kind of you.

posypoppy Tue 23-Apr-13 13:49:53

so all of you who think the OP and similar should be judged for being angry over being let down by someone they loved , wether that was right or wrong , have you never been let down , disappointed, realised this and felt angry the other person ?
That is a very normal emotion to feel, the OP feels let down and disappointed , she was led on by a man who originally painted himself in a different situation to what was real. and i would imagine that the realisation of the truth came slowly and painfully...love is in indeed blind sometimes ( and cruel, and heartless and wrong ) but really i am stunned by the lack of compassion for another human being, who has made a mistake....
My OM lied to me and lied to his wife...and i should never ever have done what i did, and i accept and understand that....but it really doesnt stop me being hurt and angry.
People ( men and women) in these situations find that their beliefs and assumptions in someone or a relationship suddenly collide with reality and it can be difficult to deal with the emotions that produce. Anger being one of them.
I cannot understand how most of you feel you have never made a mistake or done something stupid or been duped by someone.

Leavenheath Tue 23-Apr-13 13:58:36

Nope. If a known fraudster came to me for money, I wouldn't give it to him and think he'd be any different with my hard-earned cash. How arrogant would that be if I thought he would make an exception for me? And stupid? If I invested money in him, knew he'd already lied to me about even his basic identity and knew he was stealing money from someone else at the same time, I certainly wouldn't play the victim card when I lost the dosh. Especially when I'd have taken the money without hesitation in the unlikely event that he'd made a profit.

Leavenheath Tue 23-Apr-13 14:04:02

To sum it up, this is just a thread about a woman's bitterness that a man wouldn't leave his wife for her - nothing more and nothing less. If he'd dumped his wife, there would have been no upset from her at all - and no revisionist conscience about lying.

meditrina Tue 23-Apr-13 14:36:02

I think the lesson to be learned from this is when someone says NSA (as the MM did in this case) you need to listen because they mean it.

If you know you tend to fall for those with whom you have an ongoing sexual arrangement, you really do need to swerve those who tell you loud and clear that's not what they were looking for. For it's quite likely you will be shat on from a great height at some point, whatever the underlying domestics.

And generally, if you discover your partner is married, you must also realise they have a great capacity for lying, self-delusion and self-serving justification, and disregard for those to whom they should be (at a minimum) fair and kind. And then ask yourself if those are qualities you prize in a partner.

Dahlen Tue 23-Apr-13 14:52:19

I think the lesson to be learned from this is that all people - even those who are seemingly lovely - are capable of dreadful behaviour. And all people - even those who are seemingly intelligent - are capable of a massive degree of self-delusion when emotions are involved.

It's why the head should play a big part in deciding the outcome of any romantic entanglements.

Decent people can do shitty things. Shitty people can do even worse. If there's any doubt whatsoever, the benefit should not be given.

It's a hard, hard lesson to learn for all involved.

cinnamonsugar Tue 23-Apr-13 15:09:03

Agree with Dahlen's post.

That old shite about sexless marriage/together for the kids bull .... I really can't believe women fall for it!
It's frequently true though. One only has to read this Relationships board to see many wives describing their marriages exactly like this. "We haven't had sex for 7 years but I can't possibly leave because of the children". Obviously, it may well be a big fat whopper and potential OW should assume it is a lie (and not get involved either way), but I'm always baffled by people asserting that it's always nonsense.

OP, sorry you've learned some of these lessons the hard way.

allaflutter Tue 23-Apr-13 15:27:08

exactly, cinnamon! it often IS the case that there is no sex in marriage and both patners just roll with it, whether it's for kids or for the lifestyle.

Leaven I happen to know such women, so there is no point of you getting all het up, I obviously never said ALL wives of wealthy men are like this. It's not only about money per se - sorry can't look at previous page to get the poster's name - a woman can do well financially in divorce but in these cases it's often the preferrance for the social lifestyle and status that goes with a marriage, antiquated but strangely true. Not all women aer feminists, whether they also have own job or not. Many threads on here say how divorced women are often excluded socially, and of course it's harder to be a single parent, so if she gets on with her H well enough, but lost or never had a big interest in sex, then why not live for the sake of family. Not all people have sex high on agenda, she may think that of other men too. Again, how many theads go on about no interest in sex?

This was never pointed out by me as a FAULT of the wife either, if this suits the couple, it's up to them to have 'open' relationship. Wife has put up with all his other affairs, so what does that say? Only when OP nearly pushed her H towards leaving as he got very infatuated (India trip, declarations), only THEN wife started making changes as now her marriage got threatened... but if the affair was casual, they'd probably just carried on as before. I'm not judging anyone at all as it has started on the NSA terms, they all have a right to do what they like, BUT in this case OP was lied to and never knew that the man was 'a known fraudster' as you put it, Leaven, until she got emotionally involved. I think he is the major immoral shit in this situation, not either of the women. I think OP does deserve compassion.

Leavenheath Tue 23-Apr-13 16:06:59

Meh, it's amazing that some posters are projecting their own belittling views of women on to this man's wife. No-one said she'd known he'd been repeatedly unfaithful to her. All we know is that she knew about this affair. No-one said she was a kept woman who traded the posh lifestyle for a faithful husband either. OW project their own stereotypes onto wives and are therefore completely blindsided when it turns out that these allegedly asexual dependent women are still preferred over them. Women should just stop competing with one another for horrible, lying men. It's just as sickening to read about a woman taking any blame for her husband's shittiness, losing weight and competing with a twit of an OW, as it is to read OW blaming everyone but themselves for the fact they lost out and weren't perceived to be good enough by a louse of a man.

Destinysdaughter Tue 23-Apr-13 16:18:08

Actually she DID know about his previous affairs, why she stayed with him, I don't know. I asked her why she hadn't asked him to leave when she found out about me and she simply said, I didn't want to. She didn't want me to end it with him, she was ok with the sex ( in fact at one point she said she wanted to watch and maybe even join in...). It was the emotional side of things she couldn't handle.

Fwiw, when I went to stay at their house, I apologised to her for my part in things. She actually said that she didn't blame me and said that he had made victims of us both..! And yes, what happened DID strengthen their marriage, I genuinely hope they are happy but I know he will be unfaithful to her again ( I once asked him if he wasn't with me, would he be faithful to his wife? He said no).

There were some very hard lessons for me in there, how do you ever know when someone is telling you the truth..?

Leavenheath Tue 23-Apr-13 16:24:41

I don't believe you. People who like liars are often liars themselves.

You overlooked all the lies when you thought he'd dump his wife for you.

You're only sore now because he didn't. Get over it.

and the next time someone lies to you, dump him.

Lueji Tue 23-Apr-13 16:28:05

how do you ever know when someone is telling you the truth..?

You don't, you have to trust people.

But there are some things to look for.
If you do look for them.
It's possible that you were too blind to look for those early signs, or chose to ignore them.

But the things is that the first lies should be red flags.

Destinysdaughter Tue 23-Apr-13 16:46:14

Leaven, I don't want to get in a fight with you, I don't feel good about it at all but I'm not lying!! It didn't make any sense to me either. I know it's a bizarre situation to be seeing someone when the wife knows and to have met her but it did happen and was distressing and confusing for me too. She didn't want me to end it as she didn't want to deal with him being an emotional wreck as he was when I ended it in the summer. He said in front of both of us that he loved and wanted us both. She felt she couldn't leave, he said he couldn't leave as it would be financially ruinous for him and that his ( grown up) kids would hate him.

And to correct a few wrong assumptions, I'm not young, only 2 years younger than his wife, I'm not money minded, I was working for a charity and yes I do feel remorse.

Dahlen Tue 23-Apr-13 16:47:37

Leavenheath actually I'd disagree with you on that. IME people who lie are completely outraged when someone dares to lie to them back. wink

AnyFucker Tue 23-Apr-13 16:51:05

There are some fairly consistent clues when men like this lie

1) their lips are moving wink

2) they come out with the sad, tired cliches "my wife doesn't understand me" " we don't have sex" "she's with me just for the lifestyle"

3) they make pronouncements of undying love very quickly, are ridiculously "romantic" and make grand gestures designed to get you to STFU about all the other niggles you have

4) they denigrate the wife/exW/exGF etc

5) they push you to move on certain "stages" in a relationship before you have time to realise they are talking shit

6) they have mysterious "other commitments" at weekends that you are not allowed to share, they make excuses and break promises regularly

7) they are secretive, and you never quite know what they are thinking/doing when not with you

I could go on and on. If you choose to overlook any of these, it is likely you are being taken for a ride. It's all a choice, every single step of the way. Blaming "romantic love blinded me" is just a copout for your own stupidity. You would be best to acknowledge that and take some proper notice of red flags in the future.

ohforfoxsake Tue 23-Apr-13 17:09:29

I think that the fact you met on a NSA website was a MASSIVE red flag that he wasn't to be trusted.

I've done LOADS of stupid things in my time, but I wouldn't be convincing that the fall out was for the greater good.

I find the whole thing very strange. Next time run. Run to the hills as fast as you can.

And stay away from those dodgy websites.

AnAirOfHope Tue 23-Apr-13 17:22:50

As i see it it was your choice to be with him.

1) you stayed with him when you found out he was married
2) NSA and you feel for him
3) He lied about his name and you staied with him
4) You meet his wife? Why? You wanted more and would never get it.

You could have ended it at any time but you didnt.

I dont think it matters who lies to you as long as you make the right dession for you.

Take responsability for your part and get counciling to learn what love is and to find out why you let yourself get used.

The wife has her own issues and its none of your business, leave them to it and learn from this and move on.

akaWisey Tue 23-Apr-13 18:31:01

Just to add my twopence worth.

My ex's OW swallowed the most obvious lies, "our marriage has been over for years, she's 'not well'" etc ad infinitum. TBH I don't think he needed to lie because she wanted him and was determined to have him.

It was to me he admitted he'd lied to her, after I divorced him. he had to admit it to her in the end because it all massively backfired on him.

They're still together. He's still a liar. I'm over the marriage I didn't know he wanted out of and, yes, I am WELL (no thanks to him).

You won't make THAT mistake again, will you OP?

posypoppy Tue 23-Apr-13 19:15:18

Anyfucker - your list of lies or thongs liars do or say, it made me smile, which I guess it wasn't intended to, but it did , and thank you for that.
My ex OM did none of those things , and still I ended up in an unholy mess , but seeing my way clear ....married men do lie, and you know what ladies so to married women, and unmarried men and unmarried women , and everything in between, if somebody wants to manipulate you they will, and some of us are a little bit vulnerable , for our own reasons and fall for it....I will say again, in defence of myself the OPster and all other other woman or men out there.....we are not necessarily stupid, bad, sluts, or any other choice words people want ot fling about, we are human beings with emotns, feelings and even if we have done terrible things we deserve some compassion when we can see that and are look g for support. I am not a Christian, but a bet some of you on here are..... A little forgiveness goes a long way, help and support, not belittle and denigrate

posypoppy Tue 23-Apr-13 19:16:27

Oh iPad auto correct....that should be things not thongs liars do ...hope that made be laugh, a bit

AnyFucker Tue 23-Apr-13 19:27:56

Posy, I did say my list wasn't exhaustive and I skewed it towards OP's situation, since this thread is about her and not you wink

However, I don't agree with words like slut being bandied about and have never done that on this thread nor any other.

My main vitriol is reserved for the slimy, lying men who behave like this but I do think women should take some responsibility for their own actions when they wilfully and knowingly choose to overlook red flags in the face of overwhelming evidence that the said bloke is a cock, nothing more/nothing less.

bunsmum Tue 23-Apr-13 20:01:07

I'm sorry OP, this must be very difficult. In fact, difficult for both women - you and the wife.

I would calm yourself with the thought that you were wanted, desired and "loved" by this man (to the extent that he knows how to love, which obviously isn't much,) and you will be again by other men in the future.

Arm yourself with this experience for when you become a wife in the future - hopefully it is the only time it will ever happen to you.

Destinysdaughter Tue 23-Apr-13 20:41:57

Thank to to everyone who has replied after reading my long and sorry take. Especially those who have been both kind and wise. I understand the hostility and judgement it has engendered, I would have probably felt the same before I ended up in this situation. It has definitely made me more conscious of red flags and have explored this in depth in my counselling with Relate the past few months. I am going to stay single for a good long while until I feel I have resolved my self esteem issues and why I fell for a man like this. So why did I write this post? Last night I just felt so much hatred for the mm that I was tempted to email him and tell him how I was feeling. But I didn't and wrote on here instead. Just to get it out of my system and in the hope that I would maybe get some good advice, and a good kick up the arse. Which I think I got...sorry if I have offended anyone, I have read many posts on here about the pain women have gone through when their husbands have been unfaithful and hate the fact that I became one of those despised 'ows'.

Leavenheath Tue 23-Apr-13 20:44:32

There's always been support for any poster who takes responsibility for her own stupidity and cruelty, but OPs doing the 'poor little victim me' act get short shrift and rightly so, especially when they would have been only too happy to shaft a man's wife and overlook lies when they were to their benefit. It's the way they try to reduce the men's wives as being inferior beings to them that really sticks in my craw too. Obviously it's complete jealousy especially when these loser blokes choose their wives over them but even then they can't accept it's for reasons other than money, status or kids. They never seem to accept that these men really prefer their wives or that they personally didn't have enough about them to make a man leave.

Nothing has changed my mind that this is just a thread from a woman who's bitter that she lost out to a wife and wants to blame everyone but herself for the mess she's in.

I'm sure I can't be the only one who also hopes that the wife comes to her senses and dumps this loser from a great height.

But he'll find some other idiot who wants to compete with his wife, because as long as women believe absolute rubbish about eachother and fight over these terrible prizes, men will continue to get away with it.

Portofino Tue 23-Apr-13 21:32:01

Quite Leavenheath. Strange how these women find MN to unburden themselves.

Roxyfox Wed 24-Apr-13 13:56:00

Ignore the miserable commenters. We all live in glass houses, we've all done dubious things, we're all hurt others or been inconsiderate. So don't listen to them telling you you're scum for being an 'other women'.

Yes it is very naughty being involved with someone who has a partner, but it wasn't you who made the marriage vows to him, yes you were disrespectful to her and that was mean but again her happiness is not your responsibility.

I've only been the 'other woman' with a guy when I was a teenager and so was he (they weren't married obviously) and I didn't know to start with either, and when you do know you make up all sorts of rules in your head, well it's okay as long as I don't kiss him etc. thing is you'd already done this by the time you found out, you were already the terrible wretched other woman by that point so you probably didn't see any moral gain in stopping and that's understandable quite often people think 'well i'm already the bad guy'. The only way people can atone for sins is to confess and be honest and face the consequences, the wife was told, she decided to stay, she tried to reconcile with you. Those are her decisions. He's probably done this before and he would have done this without you.

As much as we all believe equality is a good thing we all like to believe we're better than other people, when a man says she is this but you're so much better it can make you feel good. Now you have learnt when a man says this there's usually more to it. For example loads of guys tell you sob stories about 'my wife won't sleep with me anymore' and you have to think deeper, why won't she? Is it likely she's gone off all forms of sex? No. She's gone off sex with HIM not all together. He is no longer providing her with fulfillment. If a wife got fat or stopped maintaining herself think deeper, she is perhaps busy looking after his children, if he was more supportive he'd maybe take gym classes with her. Think about the deeper implications. Yes maybe his wife secretly is a complete jerk! If that's the case why is he still with her? Do you want a man who is unable to be honest and say hey I don't want to be in this marriage, i'd prefer to stay unhappy? No because if you did snag him he'd never tell you when things were up either never try and compromise or work through things and communication is essential.

I don't think you're a villian I just think you thought you'd be different, sometimes a man will leave his wife (you never want him to leave her FOR you, he should leave her because the marriage wasn't working in itself) and then meet another woman. If you'd really wanted that you should say 'How dare you lie to me and to your wife. Don't speak to me again unless you've grown the honesty to leave a marriage you apparently don't want a part in' and if he doesn't eventually leave then fine but don't rush into anything with him.

Good luck in the future, not all men lie but sometimes we can transfer our experiences onto future people. Remember everyone deserves your initial trust until they break it. The one thing you should never put up with and make clear you don't is lying, because anything else can be sorted out expect that. I'd much rather a partner told me they were worried they'd cheat or had cheated than lie because yes I might still leave them but at least they didn't take the freedom of choice from me.

Moanranger Wed 24-Apr-13 15:23:55

Destiny Your pain comes through in your posts. I think you have learned a hard lesson; what strikes me is that your innate loneliness kept you with this man, even though your self-esteem was being shattered. In situations like that it can hard to get out of an unhealthy relationship as you are getting crumbs of affection, just enough to keep you going. I can see from your last post that you are going to work on your own issues. When you do, you will become a stronger person and will attract healthy people and relationships. Good luck!

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