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Staying with dh after om

(266 Posts)
GroundHogDayAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 11:03:50

Hi, I posted here yesterday re om dh business etc.

I think I am going to stay with dh and give my marriage another go.

I don't love dh and alot has happened in the 13years we have been together. We have small dcs.

I am going to have to leave my business (with om) and cut all contact with him. I will also become a sahm after working all my adult life.

Please can anyone tell me or give me advice on how to move forwards. I am going to arrange counselling for me then maybe couples if I think it's helping.

Any advice welcome. Thank you x

scaevola Sat 20-Apr-13 11:11:59

You move forwards because you are going in the direction that takes you to where you want to be. What's in it for you, to end a career to be with a man you do not love?

There isn't much hope for a dead relationship, unless you are sure in your own mind that the thing you want most is to reconcile and rebuild a genuinely functioning marriage. It's very hard to achieve post affair. Counselling is a start point in the process, not an end in itself. But perhaps individual counselling will help you sort out those issues.

And, post affair, how sure are you that DH, although presumably now saying he will attempt reconciliation, is actually likely to mean it in the long term? What will you do to heal him, to maximise the chances?

Fleecyslippers Sat 20-Apr-13 11:13:06

Why are you staying with your husband if you don't love him ?
What does your husband want ?

scaevola Sat 20-Apr-13 11:14:03

This book might be helpful to you now.

GroundHogDayAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 11:22:28

Scaevola, dh says he loves me and for dcs sake he wants to work things out.

He has said he will not allow me to work until he thinks he can trust me.

He has also promised to draw a line under om and not bring that up again.

I don't love dh as I'm in love with om. But maybe given time I will start to develop feelings for dh?

Dh was a rubbish h and dad. Totally rubbish. And I was lonely and desperate for attention.
But he's changed alot over past year.

He is very controlling though and we have little in common.

I want to give it a shot for dcs sake. They adore him.

GroundHogDayAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 11:23:53

Fleecy, dh just wants us to be how we were in early days, it before he became a workaholic and forgot me and Dc existed.

I just need to be reassured that slowly in time things will be ok

GroundHogDayAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 11:26:25

Ps I will check that book out thank you.

CajaDeLaMemoria Sat 20-Apr-13 11:27:12

Think about this carefully.

I can understand you wanting to stay with what you know, with what feels 'safest', but this isn't the best decision.

If you give up all work, you'll be completely reliant on a man who is both hurting, and may well be vengeful at some point, and who has a history of violence towards you.

If you must do this, make sure that you are completely happy with financial arrangements, and that you will be able to socialise with other people at some point and get some time to yourself. Because it sounds rather like you are trading your freedom for forgiveness, and your husband is a controlling man.

If, at least, you could keep a job of some description, at least you'd have an escape if you need it, and something that keeps your mind busy. You'll go stir-crazy otherwise.

Be careful.

scaevola Sat 20-Apr-13 11:28:08

Thanks.

But what you still haven't said is what you want You talk about giving it a shot for sake of DC, but what is it ? What do you visualise as the outcome you want from making these changes now? If you do this because it is what DH is telling you to do, you are letting yourself be controlled again. You need to make a positive decision about the next steps in your marriage.

anastaisia Sat 20-Apr-13 11:29:33

They can still adore him without you having to be in a relationship you know. Imagine if a few years down the line, your slightly more mature DCs realise that you've stayed 'for them'. How do you think you'd feel if you discovered you were responsible for a person you love being in a situation that makes them unhappy? Would it make you happy that they'd given up their own life for you or would it induce a hell of a lot of guilt and pressure on the relationship? Children aren't stupid, they'll pick up on the dynamic and see your lack of agency in the relationship - do you want them to mimic it in future relationships? To control their partners or allow them to control them? You say you're staying for the children, but you're actually teaching them about relationships. Why not leave for the children? Teach them that they deserve equal relationships that make them happy and that they don't have to settle and be in a relationship to enjoy life.

CartedOff Sat 20-Apr-13 11:39:26

"He has said he will not allow me to work until he thinks he can trust me."

You say he is very controlling but has changed a lot. I don't think he's changed that much if he's laying down the law on when you are allowed to work. There is so much wrong with that statement. You've done something that is very wrong by having an affair, but PLEASE, don't tell yourself that this makes him being controlling justified in this case.

Giving up work and becoming a stay at home parent until your husband "allows" you to work doesn't sound like it will end well. It will just put you in a very precarious position. Please be careful.

badinage Sat 20-Apr-13 11:39:45

I'm hoping no-one will give you any advice about how to stay in your marriage, because you shouldn't.

Neither should you have anything to do with the OM, who has lied for years to you but despite your claim that you believed him, of course you did not. You are not stupid, but you are very poor on taking responsibility for your actions.

You should have the courage to be on your own.

this is utterly insane OP - please look at what you're saying.

you don't love him, he is controlling, a shit husband and father and won't allow you to work (your words) until he says so...

this is a disaster. do not throw away your business and your LIFE on this man. you will not be doing it for the children - how could you staying with a shit husband and father and being miserable and forgoing your independence serve your children???

GroundHogDayAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 11:39:58

Caja, thank you for your reply. X

He has stated categorically that he will not allow me to work.

I have potential of earning 5x what he does. He starts work at 4/5pm and finishes between 1am-5am. This has had a massive impact on our family life.

I absolutely cannot justify or excuse om but I was very lonely.

I am really scared of moving forwards without dh. That sounds pathetic I know. The thought of hols, family events days out etc as a family all gone.

I know I will go stir crazy at home.

Is it not worth it for kids to have both parents though under one roof?

badinage Sat 20-Apr-13 11:41:15

No and what's more it's not fair to the kids just because you don't want to be on your own and responsible for yourself.

CartedOff Sat 20-Apr-13 11:43:58

"Is it not worth it for kids to have both parents though under one roof?"

Not when it's an unhappy environment where one parent is controlled and the other a bully.

It's sheer madness. You'd be much better off leaving this relationship and keeping your independence and earning power.

Don't stay out of fear of the unknown. I can assure you it's not so bad.

Just because there are two parents in the same home doesn't mean it can't be a toxic environment. Far from it.

Gingerandcocoa Sat 20-Apr-13 11:45:28

I'm all for marriage and pushing through the differences since you've made a commitment, but staying with your DH sounds like a dead end even to me...

Yardley Sat 20-Apr-13 11:46:12

Im not sure that being at home all day (because dh says thats what he will 'allow') is a great idea for helping you get over om.You will have more time to think about him when at home all day-surely its better to be super busy for a while if you really want to get over him-you have to have something else to throw yourself into. Also I think you will resent dh (whom you've said you dont love already) for making you give up your work, which wont help the relationship at all.
I appreciate you are making the choice that you feel is best for the dc's and thats understandable-plenty do it-but dh doesnt sound, from what you've said like he's that great at being a dad or a husband and how happy will you be with a man who is that controlling.Therefore how happy will the dc's be in the end?

Lovingfreedom Sat 20-Apr-13 11:46:32

Suggest you don't rush to leave your job even if it is problematic. Try to find another? It's useful to have some financial independence. Also your relationship with your husband is uncertain. You mentioned violence yesterday and you said you don't love him. Advise you to keep options open. Maybe take some time to think through different options? I found talking different options through with a counsellor was invaluable. Different scenario for me...but still really helped in making big and complex decision.

CajaDeLaMemoria Sat 20-Apr-13 11:47:43

No, GroundHog, it's really not.

Your children won't lose either of their parents. They still get you both. They'll see you separately, fair enough, but they'll also see you happy, and they'll see normal, loving relationships, and they'll get the best of both of you.

If you go back to your husband, you'll be showing them a loveless relationship. Your children learn about relationships by observing yours, and it'll be controlling, and fraught, and loveless. They deserve better than that, and so do you.

I know its hard, and you probably feel very stuck, but staying with your husband will make this harder, not easier. You'll lose your own income, and you'll be stuck.

Of course it's daunting, but it'll be okay. You don't lose family events, days out, holidays: you can still go, and you'll meet someone who makes you feel valued and loved and worthwhile, without being controlling or jealous, and you'll wonder why you ever considered staying.

You husband doesn't want a wife, he wants a slave. He's willing to 'forgive' your affair because it means he'll get complete control of you, and he can quickly put you in a position where you cannot leave. And he knows that you'd rather that than leave - he's relying on your need to have a man around.

You deserve better than this, and so do your children. Your instincts must be screaming at you: listen to them.

TheVermiciousKnid Sat 20-Apr-13 11:47:50

He has stated categorically that he will not allow me to work.

That alone would be an absolute deal breaker for me. In my opinion, allowing or not allowing a partner to do (or not do) something has no place in a relationship.

LisaMed Sat 20-Apr-13 11:49:25

imo it will destroy you.

TheVermiciousKnid Sat 20-Apr-13 11:49:34

I agree with other posters that staying with your husband is not automatically 'worth it for the kids'. And furthermore, it's not just about your kids - you deserve to be happy as well.

GroundHogDayAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 11:50:10

Scaevola, I just want a happy stable secure home for my dcs.

Anastacia- I have provided a terrible example to dcs re family life so far. It's always been mum v dad. Never anything together. We have separate rooms. Dc does things with them on his two nights off and during wkend afternoon. Rest of the time they are with me at home. I want to be able to start doing things as a family now.

Carted off- I know your right but I can't blame dh for not trusting me. After all I met om in the workplace right?

Badinage- it's over between me and om. He lied to me for years and I feel like a bitch knowing now that he had a wife and baby Dc all along living with him.
But dh wants to forgive and forget.
I'm frozen with fear at being on my own and totally regretting it.

Swallowed- dh has changed alot and if we work together he will change more into what I wanted.

Well that's my hope anyway.

My family are telling me to make it work too. The man is the backbone of the family. Apparently.

scaevola Sat 20-Apr-13 11:50:30

You're prepared to sacrifice your earning potential and possibly your mental health for a relationship that it's beginning to sound as if you should have considered ending years ago?

You must make a decision for yourself here - not do what your DH tells you. The comment about his being unlikely to "allow" you to do things for years shows that you expect him to be controlling. Why on earth would you want that? What are the real barriers to your taking control of your own life? Can you even articulate what it is you want now?

Yes, it can be fraught and distressing for DCs if parents separate. But the question here is whether it is worse to be from a broken home, or to be in one. As you do not seem to be able to visualise a functioning relationship with DH in which you both get enough of what you want, it does not seem that staying under the same roof will deliver a healthy home life for any of you.

SirSugar Sat 20-Apr-13 11:51:10

Please please please do not give up your business! I will post more later I am at work now and busy

TheVermiciousKnid Sat 20-Apr-13 11:51:58

My family are telling me to make it work too. The man is the backbone of the family. Apparently.

Bollocks.

Cravingdairy Sat 20-Apr-13 11:52:06

Your children would probably prefer two happy homes to one miserable one. They will know if you are miserable, and it will make them miserable.

CajaDeLaMemoria Sat 20-Apr-13 11:54:23

No, he won't change. If he was going to at least try and change, he wouldn't be telling you that you categorically cannot work.

Cannot work with the OM, yes. Cannot work at all? No. He wants you to be stuck with him, without your own money, so he can completely control what you buy, where you go and who you see. Which will very soon be no-one, nothing and nowhere. You'll be trapped at home.

Your children already see you and your DH separately. Moving on now won't be a big change for them. They'll adjust quickly, and they'll get two parents who are living and enjoying life. They'll get the best of you both.

He won't change. Go into this with your eyes open, if you must do it at all. He will take away your income, your friends, and you will answer completely to him. You'll have to ask him whenever you want to buy anything, or go anywhere. And you'll go mad, sitting at home, because you can't work or go anywhere.

GroundHogDayAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 11:59:03

Thank you all so much for your replies.

If I was reading this and giving my advice id say Run!

But I feel very tired now and completely worn down.

Dh txts me obsessively night and day. Once I woke up to 60txts. Out verbal communication has broken down and I guess that's the only way he can get through to me.

He has involved my family too. Told my elderly parents everything.

He just goes on and on and on at me really giving me the emotional blackmail.

But I feel like he has a right to do this as I've lied to him and gone behind his back.

TheVermiciousKnid Sat 20-Apr-13 12:02:28

No, he does not have a right to do this. You were wrong to have an affair, but you are not the only one responsible for the breakdown of your marriage - no doubt he has contributed to this as well.

badinage Sat 20-Apr-13 12:03:49

No way is it 'over' with the OM if you say you're still in love with him. It needs to be though.

Look, your best bet is to start facing some home truths.

You had a crap marriage so you felt entitled to an affair with someone who was crapping over his own wife and kids, because you didn't want the responsibility of leaving your marriage and being on your own. Rather than take responsibility for that, you pretended that you believed the OM's lies about his marriage being over - despite his wife's pregnancy (go figure hmm)

Go back to the start of that paragraph. You're still not taking responsibility for your own decisions and you're still making excuses so you don't have to be on your own. Despite your kids having a fucked-up childhood and despite knowing that you don't love their father and this isn't going to work.

Leave both men and be on your own.

badinage Sat 20-Apr-13 12:08:20

Have a look at passive-aggressive behaviour incidentally. Passive-aggressive personalities are always martyring themselves, blaming others for their own decisions and they frequently claim to be 'too tired' to communicate, engage or make a decision.

When this marriage collapses again, you'll probably default to 'He made me do it' instead of 'I chose this life'. Passive-aggressives always do that.

piprabbit Sat 20-Apr-13 12:08:39

He doesn't not have a right to do these things or to try an control you. He doesn't have the right to punish you indefinitely.

He has the right to decide what sort of marriage he wants and you have the right to decide if you also want that sort of marriage, or if you want something different for yourself.

It sounds like you are in a very sad, difficult situation but please don't make decisions about your long-term future while you are blaming yourself and thinking you deserve to be punished.

Lovingfreedom Sat 20-Apr-13 12:09:45

Try to slow down a bit OP. You don't have to make all the decisions and changes today. Remember that although you might feel like the guilty one given the EA and OM this doesn't mean that your DH gets everything his way.

Demanding you can't work is unreasonable and will be detrimental to everyone in the household.

scaevola Sat 20-Apr-13 12:11:05

Well, yes up to a point. In terms of the OM he is the betrayed one, and a charged emotional response is normal and understandable.

But it is telling that you see this as emotional blackmail (not cries of pain) and when considering your relationship, you see the bad aspects, not something you want to save. Everything you are posting is showing that you know this relationship is not right for you.

But you and only you can make the decision that you want out. No matter how tired and worn down you are, you need to recognise that staying or going is your choice. It's not something that just happens because you think he's wearing you down. It's a choice.

AnyFucker Sat 20-Apr-13 12:11:18

Are you absolutely MENTAL ?

Lovingfreedom Sat 20-Apr-13 12:13:30

FWIW, my reading of this is that the DH is more of a concern than the OM. I'm not that surprised you looked for affection outside the relationship. Not saying carry on with OM. He's married and will only end in tears for everyone...but your marriage sounds awful.

GroundHogDayAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 12:15:33

Badinage- I was very gullible and I believed what om told me. I know I was stupid.

I never had any kind of physical affair with om although that doesn't make it ok of course. I wanted a friend more than anything else and that's what om gave me. Of course now I know what I know, it was a friendship built on lies. From both sides yes.

It will take me a long long time to get past om, I'd planned a future with him. Now it's all gone. But I'm glad that I've been saved from jumping into hell. For my dcs sake not mine.

Moving forwards, I just want my dcs to be happy. Even if I'm not. If I can at least get a friendship going with dh that's a start isn't it.

Maybe I will talk him round into me going back to work.

piprabbit Sat 20-Apr-13 12:19:15

You can be friendly with your H for the sake of co-parenting your children, without being married to him, living with him or being financially dependent on him.

Why only "maybe" talk him round into agreeing to you working? Why not tell him that you will be working?

badinage Sat 20-Apr-13 12:20:11

My reading of this is that the OP's behaviour and personality is the biggest concern in all of this.

Y'know, this is what we're all meant to do isn't it?

Loads of shock horror about how awful the H and the OM are and what a terrible life the OP's had - or is going to have if she carries on with this madcap plan.

Me? I feel sorry for the OM's wife and all the kids involved.

OP you weren't gullible or stupid. You were culpable. No way did you believe what the OM was telling you.

Lovingfreedom Sat 20-Apr-13 12:21:28

You can earn 5x what your husband does? How the hell will you manage financially if you don't work?

Lovingfreedom Sat 20-Apr-13 12:26:54

Oh yeah...don't disagree with that bad. OMs wife really has had the thin end of the wedge...and has no choice in the matter.

Advice to OP from me is leave your husband and leave other people's husbands alone!

AnyFucker Sat 20-Apr-13 12:27:05

Badinage, I think I need a break from the Relationships thread, am sick of these manipulative OP's

I think I shall simply post ARE YOU FUCKING MENTAL on everything I see today.

Oh please god, don't do this. Please please please reconsider. It will not benefit your dcs to see you stuck in an unhappy marriage. Your DH will not change, people never really change. It would be a huge mistake to give up your job, your freedom, everything on the basis this man may change.

Having an affair was stupid, yes, but I can understand it. My marriage has survived DH's affair, but believe me it is very hard, and the only reason it works is that we genuinely love each other and are both 100% committed to the relationship. You say you don't love your DH, and he only seems happy when he has total control over you. That cannot work, you will be trapped and unhappy and he will use your transgression to keep a hold over you.

anastaisia Sat 20-Apr-13 12:30:27

Do you not think that's even worse for the kids to learn then groundhog?

That the relationship was odd/awful/strained until one person within the family gave up EVERYTHING else as a sacrifice to keep the family together? Teach them to walk away from unsatisfying relationships instead (while keeping things civil for them)

Lovingfreedom Sat 20-Apr-13 12:33:06

Wish someone had asked me if I was FUCKING MENTAL about 15 years ago...

pigsDOfly Sat 20-Apr-13 12:35:09

I'm reading this OP and I'm trying to feel sympathy for you, but with every new thing you post I keep thinking is this woman for real.

You've made a mistake by getting involved with the OM and now you're wanting to compound that mistake by being a martyr and trying to 'build' a relationship with a man you don't love and who wants to completely control you.

Why do you think this will provide a stable environment for your DC to grow up in?

You clearly have earning power, so can provide for your DC's. You're not happy with your DH, so stop being a victim and get out of your dead marriage and away from the OM.

i possibly need a break too because i'm thinking the OP has zero intention of growing up and taking responsibility for her life. my thought is just jesus poor bloody kids who don't have an adult who'll face difficulty in order to give them a vaguely sane start in life.

i'm sorry OP. this passive, self deprecating approach is an utter cop out and nothing more. you need to sort your issues out and grow a backbone because you're a parent!

Fairylea Sat 20-Apr-13 12:39:02

You do realise you don't have to be with anyone right? You don't even need family who say a man is the central figure of the family! You can do it alone and still have a stable happy family for your dc.

I left my useless ex when dd was 6 months old. She is now 10 years old. Yes bits of it were tough but I don't regret leaving at all. I wasn't myself with him. You don't sound like yourself with dh.

Between then and now I've had lots of adventures ... enjoyed bringing dd up on my own, no one to answer to, I get a break when her dad has her, I also cut ties a bit with my family who didn't really agree with me leaving but I needed to.... I've had a few serious boyfriends, I got to feel in love again and want to have sex again... all those things that make life enjoyable. You only get one life! Dd is happy and well adjusted. No problems at all.

(And ex and I aren't exactly on brilliant terms even now but we are polite for dd).

I now have a new dh who is everything I wanted, committed and caring and totally hands on family man. No drinking no friends no pub. Just me and the kids - we now have ds 10 months too.

Please don't waste the best years of your life stuck with some twunt you don't even love. What a waste. Your kids won't thank you for it.

AnyFucker Sat 20-Apr-13 12:42:51

There's been a run of these faux-self deprecating threads recently where it becomes clear as the story progresses that the OP is simply indulging in a spot of chain-yanking.

She gets a long thread of outraged, frothing replies but doesn't listen to any advice whatsoever.

Kernowgal Sat 20-Apr-13 12:46:09

As a child of a relationship similar to yours (with your DH, though my dad wasn't abusive like that), on behalf of your children I am going to say that you need to grow a spine and leave your DH and go it alone for your children's sake.

Sod what you and your husband want, or what the OM wants, put your bloody children first for once.

Offred Sat 20-Apr-13 12:49:19

Lurked on the other thread.

Think you are utterly insane in making this decision.

It will work out worst for everyone.

GroundHogDayAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 12:50:41

I'm not playing the victim or a martyr. And neither am I manipulating anyone.

I'm just trying to find a way of providing my dcs with the best life.

I'm very grateful to have a good job, I worked hard for it but its not sympathetic to families at all. If I leave dh and go to work for another company, I would have to put dcs in daycare all day and I don't want to do that. I'm self emp at the moment and can work around Dcs. But of course the business is with om.

I want to leave om and move on and this means leaving business. People have suggested I keep it work only but if I stay with dh this is out if the question and even if I don't stay with dh, I won't be able to carry on working with om everyday.

Oms wife knows everything and wants him back. I have told om he needs to decide what he wants to do with that himself and away from me.

I have made mistakes and now I just want to make things right.

well there is total consensus on this thread that what you are proposing is not putting things right and is not the best option for your children. so if you wanted to know what others thought you've had a very clear answer. it won't change anything though as you'll stick with what seems easiest.

nope - not even when you try and emotionally manipulate it into something else.

Offred Sat 20-Apr-13 12:55:26

this kind of martyrdom, and it is absolutely is this, is the absolute worst possible way to make a stable home for your children.

It is absolutely the way to give them issues with relationships and ruin your relationships (you and dh) with them when they are adults.

Your primary relationship is abusive. The other man is, similarly, a total twunt. Frying pan and fire are not your only choices.

I sincerely believe you need some support with your confidence and self-esteem before you make any decision.

GroundHogDayAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 12:55:26

I am listening to all the advice here, and I am considering everything.

I know I can go it alone. So many do. I've admitted I am pathetic wanting to have someone there, like a safety net.

I am going to think about what I can do to get out and what support I have.

sorry wrong thread for that last post! confused

Fairylea Sat 20-Apr-13 12:55:54

Have a longer term plan.... its not a choice between this particular job or staying with your dh. There are other jobs.. work less hours, check benefit entitlement etc.

SirBoobAlot Sat 20-Apr-13 12:56:08

You need t get away from both of these men. Yes you fucked up, but your H has no right to tell you that you are not allowed to work.

Get a clean break. You'd be better off as a single mum, and working on your social life a bit more to combat feeling lonely.

Fairylea Sat 20-Apr-13 12:56:18

When I say work less hours I mean in an entirely different job.

Offred Sat 20-Apr-13 12:57:34

people make mistakes. Adults have to get over this and move on not runaway back to whichever knobhead is going to treat them worst as a punishment for being such a terrible person.

Perfectly possible to work with OM and move on in my mind, just difficult emotionally but entirely possible.

GroundHogDayAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 12:58:23

Is not possible to find the love once it's lost? This is what is bugging me and why I was initially thinking I should give dh and I a go.

TheOwlService Sat 20-Apr-13 12:58:50

Sounds to me OP that you have decided that you are doing the right thing in staying with your husband and just looking on here for someone, anyone, to validate your actions.

Dont think you are going to find this validation, not on here anyway!

You and your DC better off on your own. If you have earning power you can make a new start. I dont understand for one minute why on earth you would want to do anything else!!!

GroundHogDayAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 13:00:49

Yes I am def considering another job, anywhere tbh. I'm not bothered how much I earn as long as I can support myself and kids.

Fairylea Sat 20-Apr-13 13:01:18

It is possible to love again. But I think that ship has sailed by the sounds of it.

Offred Sat 20-Apr-13 13:02:04

I am not of the belief that is possible to find love when you have lost it for such a long period of time no. A certain amount of fluid waxing and waning of feeling is allowable, that is not what has happened here. That is without taking into account the fact that you should not try to engineer love for someone who is abusive and controlling.

scaevola Sat 20-Apr-13 13:04:19

"Is not possible to find the love once it's lost?"

Possible, yes. Likely, no. But if you think this idea is worth consideration, you might like also to consider that one very effective way of sorting it out would be to separate and rediscover yourself and whether you really want to be with him. If in say 6months you find you are not missing him at all, you'll have your answer.

GroundHogDayAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 13:05:09

Offred I could continue working with om but I think if I'm to move on it's not a good idea.

GroundHogDayAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 13:06:56

I have suggested a temp separation with dh but he doesn't agree.

HandbagCrab Sat 20-Apr-13 13:11:43

I'd rather me and ds live in a skip than live with a dh that wants the control over me to tell me whether I can work or not and threatens me with violence (even once), ignores me etc. I'd rather have ds in nursery 12 hours a day than live one hour in an abusive home.

I'd wager you've had this fantasy relationship with this other man precisely because your primary relationship is so poor and always has been poor.

Why would your dh improve if he doesn't have to? He's probably got better because you've been working at becoming self sufficient and now he has the perfect stick to beat you back down with so he can go back to how he was before.

I absolutely agree with af and others. This is your life, you have to take responsibility for what you want from it and what is objectively best for your dc. Have counselling before making any decisions re work and your dh.

Offred Sat 20-Apr-13 13:16:54

It really is irrelevant whether DH agrees to a temp separation. Relationships are conducted by mutual agreement but it is absolutely vital that they can be unilaterally ended.

If you want a temporary separation then have one.

I would explain to OM that you need time and space to think and to establish yourself as independent before you can decide whether to commit to him or not. I would ask to move into new house and offer to pay rent/get contract signed over to you.

Then see how things go.

If it is right with DH then you will be able to conduct the relationship as equals.

If you have space you will be able to make a better choice, and probably so will he. Everything is motivated around desperation and control currently.

GroundHogDayAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 13:44:00

Offred and others thank you.

I am taking on board everything.

I did have a 'fantasy life' in my head. Because om was outwardly everything I wanted. He was great with dcs, always there for me, always ready to listen, same job and friends etc. but all that's gone now and I need to get it out of my head.

Dh telling me I should do the 'right thing' and stay with him. I've been selfish and now I need to think about my dcs, my parents his parents etc. I need to have faith that things will get better and if I want it enough they will.

He uses our religious beliefs against me all the time too. We are from a culture where divorce/separation is really taboo.

I know in this day and age and in this country this is not the case. But out families are very old fashioned and have a very tight knit community and way of thinking.

If I leave I'm a complete pariah basically.

I'm not saying I'm sacrificing myself for sake of kids (even though that's how it sounds). Just that everything and everyone around me is really pressuring me into staying with him.

GroundHogDayAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 13:47:51

I mentioned in another thread that he has bugged my car, had listening devices around the house. He had private investigator following me and om. I'm not sure why he did that as I have no friends here or family, the only places I go to are office, home, my parents and supermarket.

If I go anywhere else, ie Pizza Hut for eg, both dcs are with me always.

He has taken my office keys and gone there behind my back. He took my house keys from my bag and went there (the rented one) and took pics and sent them to me.

He

GroundHogDayAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 13:49:02

Sorry posted too soon.

There's so much more I can say. But I really feel like I drove him to do these desperate things.

When he hit me, he says I drove him to do that.

HandbagCrab Sat 20-Apr-13 13:51:11

Imagine op it's an ideal world. What would you be doing, where would you be, who would you be with?

Whatever version of god/ gods you worship, I'm pretty sure they didn't go to all the effort of inventing and keeping going the universe for billions of years in order for some of their finest creations to spend their whole lives living in pain and fear and without love. Your dc are your finest creations, how do you want them to live? If your family value more the status quo than your true happiness, it says more about them than it does about you.

HandbagCrab Sat 20-Apr-13 13:52:49

X post. Op you cannot drive someone to hit you, hire private investigators or police your every move. You are in an abusive relationship and you need to get out. Can you call women's aid and get some advice?

LisaMed Sat 20-Apr-13 14:00:37

I had to delete my first paragraphs because they were far too harsh, even for mumsnet, though I think they were realistic.

I always try not to post such harsh posts, but I think you need to understand that once you have no way out then your husband will get worse. And that you are teaching your children what marriage is supposed to be. And without working you will have no way out. And he will be turning this onto the kids.

It is just going to get worse and worse and worse.

GroundHogDayAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 14:00:58

Thanks handbagcrab. I posted here as I literally have nobody else to talk to.

I will consider calling womens aid but I know ultimately I need to think what's best for me and dcs.

I feel like I've become a shell of the person I once was.

GroundHogDayAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 14:02:01

Lisamed plz be as harsh as you like. I need to hear it.

badinage Sat 20-Apr-13 14:03:01

I'm not saying I'm sacrificing myself for sake of kids (even though that's how it sounds).

Good.

Because you're not. And it doesn't sound as though you are either; at least to anyone who can see right through this.

What you are doing is sacrificing your kids because of yourself.

(and AnyF is dead right about all these manipulative, chain-yanking OPs lately. This board should be retitled passiveagressivenet)

NotMostPeople Sat 20-Apr-13 14:03:40

Your DH is absolutely right you should do the right thing.

The right thing is not showing your children that marriage is where one person is controlled by another who they don't love.

The right thing is to leave your DH, go to work, forget OM and begin to build a new life.

LisaMed Sat 20-Apr-13 14:03:52

I'm sorry but...

You will end up drinking bleach, your children will learn that it is normal in marriage to be an abuser/abused and your family will be impoverished from the loss of income - and it is the best outcome?

I expect this post to be deleted. I regret that I think it is true.

fuzzywuzzy Sat 20-Apr-13 14:09:25

Groundhog, you say you didn't have a physical relationship with OM is that right?
How'd your H use this affair as a stick to beat you with then?

If you give up your job and hand all control of yourself to your H it will end very badly. At least right now you have a fighting chance.

I'm also from a community where divorce is frowned upon, the reality is everyone has too much on their plate to give a crap how I live my life.

Offred Sat 20-Apr-13 14:17:40

You need to choose.

You are, as I see it, hoping you can cop out of making a choice at all, but for your kids you really, absolutely must choose. It is truly terrible to have a mother who has been complicit in allowing abuse of herself and her family like this use "I was trying to provide stability"/"I was acting based on my religion" later as an excuse for the inaction which condemned the family life.

Fundamentally when religions require subjugation of women they are absolutely and fundamentally wrong and yes it is extremely hard to go against, some women are killed and tortured for going against it but really, what other option is there?

Surely no God anyone would be inclined to recognise as a higher authority would demand you stay with a man like this and no person of real worth either....

Offred Sat 20-Apr-13 14:21:43

really, honestly, women's aid my love. Your spirit is broken and you have been trained to internalise beliefs which will not help you or your children to live happy stable lives. These lives these people expect you to live are lives of slavery and abuse...

A woman's place is in the home... the man is automatically the backbone, this bears no relation to any of his qualities as a person, it is simply an oppressive and prejudiced belief of oppressive prejudiced people. religion schmaligion... no excuse for it...

tell womens aid what you have said about how he treats you.

QueenandKingMum Sat 20-Apr-13 14:26:38

I agree 100& with Lisamed, his controlling ways will get worse. You sound so worn down and defeated. Remember you have self worth, it's not just your children. Speaking of someone who has been through a divorce, now 2 years later we are settled in a routine that works for all of us and me and exDH are very very good at coparenting. Best thing we ever did.

You know deep down this is wrong. I'd recommend separating and working on YOU and don't worry about men at all until you are strong. Thinking of you.

GroundHogDayAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 14:28:02

Lisamed- I've had those dark thoughts more times than I should say. I feel like a massive disappointment to everyone.

Fuzzy- there's no physical relationship at all with om, never has been and dh knows this as despite his efforts he's found nothing. But the fact that I loved om and arranged a house for me and dcs is bad enough.

Offred- your advice is great as always. I have a strong faith and I do believe that God/whoever else you believe in does not want anyone to live like this. I also recognise that you could hold onto your faith to make your marriage work and also hold on to it to help you make it work alone.

Everyone that knows dh would never believe he's like this.

GroundHogDayAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 14:31:29

Thank you queen, that means alot. I have read so many threads on here abt divorce etc but it doesn't feel real thinking that about myself.

I have huge admiration for single parents. It's prob the toughest thing ever to do.

Offred, what will women's aid tell me?? He also checks my emails, hacked into oms emails, checks my handbag. My cupboards. Even rubbish.

Offred Sat 20-Apr-13 14:37:38

Faith in God can't make a marriage worth I think. Only faith in the marriage.

You have to do it your way. Ultimately we all do know this, even though we might be frustrated with you, us with the privilege of objectivity and hindsight!

We know it will be a bad idea to go through with what you write in your first post on this thread. I think you know this too but knowing at the moment is not helping you is it? You really need some support to translate that knowledge into real life action.

Remember though any mistake, no matter the size should not be made, or allowed to be made so great that it obliterates you. It is simply a mistake, we all make them, big ones, small ones, and mostly they can be either undone or fixed or grown from.

Offred Sat 20-Apr-13 14:40:45

sorry, x-post.

I'm not sure what exactly WA would tell you because I'm quite sure you haven't told us everything, but it should be that spying on you, hitting you (even once) and demanding you give up your work is abusive behaviour.

They will not ask you to condemn him as a terrible abusive man, they should focus on you and your perceptions of yourself and also help you to correctly identify abusive behaviours of his and get a better perspective of your own behaviour which you seem to think is hideously sinful (its not).

GroundHogDayAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 14:50:22

Offred I will consider calling them. I'm sure they will at least assure me that I have other options- just like all of you are saying.

There's plenty I haven't told you about dh. Some posters here are already saying I'm doing this for a sympathy vote so I don't want to say anything more.

One thing which really scares me is physical contact with dh if I stayed. He has in the past said even if I don't love him I should still sleep with him. It's my 'role as a wife'. He wouldn't force me I don't think, but I would def get the pressure.

Lizzabadger Sat 20-Apr-13 14:55:49

End your marriage.

Stay safe.

Offred Sat 20-Apr-13 15:54:06

I know that this is a leap based on the fact that you have not spoken of any sexual violence which has been committed against you, simply a threat of it, but bear in mind that men who are both physically and sexually violent are the greatest risk to their female partners.

People are very frustrated with you because what we see time and time again on this board is posters using the board to vent about their terrible situations specifically so that it makes the relationship bearable. Posters are wary of this with you, that we will put effort in, be triggered by your posts, give desperate pleas to you that you will use in order to stay, which is very hard to see.

Please don't take it very personally, posters generally care very much about women posting about domestic violence. It is coming from a place of caring about you and your children.

AnyFucker Sat 20-Apr-13 16:00:49

OP, it is beyond the remit of MN to help you if you minimise and rationalise domestic violence and coercive sex in order to justify staying in an abusive relationship

Please seek some RL advice and support (and not from any religious sources that support the idea that to endure an unhappy marriage will bring you any sort of favours in the afterlife)

scaevola Sat 20-Apr-13 16:05:12

Why did OM arrange the house for you? Was there no physical affair because the relationship simply wasn't like that? Did you become emotionally bonded because he's actually a sympathetic man who has seen that what you need to do is get out? And has actually taken some practical steps so you can?

GroundHogDayAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 16:56:37

Offred, I'm very grateful for every single word of advice by every poster here, I apologise if it's come across that I'm not.

AF- I am going to try spk to someone in RL. But I don't know who to. Women's aid has been suggested and maybe I should go to my gp?? I don't know.

Scaevola- I got the other house for me and dcs only not om. It's in his name for financial reasons. But it would have been mine for next 12months at least.

Om knew what dh was doing/saying and he did say I need to get out not just to be with him though.

Om was really the only friend I had and who I could confide in.

AnyFucker Sat 20-Apr-13 17:37:08

OP, yes to Women's Aid. Have a look at their website, love. You can also email them as a starting point.

Your husband is horrible.

I would like to apologise for the comment I made at 12:42pm

I am a bit jaded with MN at the moment and used your thread to have a bit of a strop. Completely my issue and I spoke too soon on your thread.

Offred Sat 20-Apr-13 17:45:08

We know love and I think it is not a conscious thing of a lot of the posters who use MN to vent, we understand the cognitive dissonance and all the crap, most of us have been there but it is just hard to watch it happening is all. None of us would expect you to up and leave based on an Internet forum and we'd all be around to support you, just sometimes we're an imperfect lot and it is stressful watching something unfold that you feel you can see the ending of!

Hope you understand we're not trying to get at you or accuse you of manipulation at all, or any other poster! Just mumsnet being a bit up it's own arse!

i don't understand that you say you and other man worked together and had the same friends but you didn't know he was married. that doesn't add up to me.

tbh it sounds like this man has been very kind to you and you say there was no physical relationship so i wonder if he was just being a friend and trying to help you but you latched onto the idea of being together forever.

i'm sorry for my comment too - it is very frustrating sometimes and there was a real feeling of drip feeding and wishing to cause maximum effect. if that wasn't the case i apologise for thinking it.

also are you business partners? as in you own a business between you?

GroundHogDayAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 19:11:35

AF- plz don't apologise it's ok. At least you took the time out to comment so it's ok honestly.

Swallowed- again no need to apologise. I appreciate the words of support and if any one has been harsh then that's ok because I do need that.
To answer your question of friends, om kept his marriage a secret to everyone in the office! I remember we used to try and set up him up with other SINGLE girls.

Yes we are business partners, 50/50.

Offred- honestly thank you. You are so kind.

GroundHogDayAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 19:16:44

And maybe I didn't clarify before but when om told me about his wife and that she was pregnant, we were just friends at that point. He had told me she had moved out and was at her mothers etc. it all seemed very plausible at the time.

But I know I need to move past that now anyway.

I think one of the reasons why I'm so confused and unsure is I feel like I'm losing so much at once. Om, my business. Dh. Dcs family unit.

I know I brought alot of it on myself. I should have dealt with my marriage problems before thinking of another relationship.

CajaDeLaMemoria Sat 20-Apr-13 19:48:02

Sometimes, as daunting as it is, it's easiest to let go of all the badness together. It's much better than holding onto something for familiarity, and then prolonging the pain.

badinage Sat 20-Apr-13 20:16:18

Okay I'll bite.

What exactly have you done then that distinguished this relationship from 'just friends'?

Sometimes when people say 'there was no physical relationship' what they mean is no penis in vagina sex.....but just about everything else.

GroundHogDayAgain Sat 20-Apr-13 21:06:12

Badinage. Nothing more than kissing or hug. I guess that's physical enough though.

Caja do you mean let go of everything and start again? Ie om dh business etc?

badinage Sat 20-Apr-13 21:20:28

Thanks for answering.

Is the OM from the same faith group as you and your H?

I'm guessing that culturally women always get the shitty end of the stick in the world you've grown up in and so it's harder to be a grown-up who takes responsibility for her actions.

But really you must get away from both these men and start to carve out your own life. You are not safe.

In your first post, you said you were thinking of some counselling for yourself. That would be a very good idea.

GroundHogDayAgain Sun 21-Apr-13 00:44:53

Badinage, yes om is of same faith.

And yes, women do put up with alot of bullshit for the sake of appearance and image and social acceptance.

So much so that I actually do not know of any single parent families or divorces in the family or community.

This is one of the reasons I was considering staying with dh. Nothing to do with me being a martyr or anything.

My parents are quite old now and it would break their heart to see me on my own with kids.

badinage Sun 21-Apr-13 01:11:42

Your parents' upset really isn't your responsibility. If they are even halfway decent, they'd be far more upset at the prospect of their daughter being raped and abused by her husband and if they wouldn't, their feelings are really not worth worrying about.

You've got far more responsibility to your kids and to your own wellbeing.

What would be helpful is to see that both of these blokes have treated the women involved appallingly and that you've got far more in common with the OM's wife than you might think.

GroundHogDayAgain Sun 21-Apr-13 01:41:25

Badinage you are right. But I could never make my parents/family understand this.

It's so depressing that I have to fight and argue even basic concepts like when he hit me for example and no body in family said a word to him! It was my fault because I wound him up (I didn't btw).

All this following me and breaking into my office and house, again, that's all because I drove him to it and what did I expect him to do?!!

Sometimes when people in your life tell you stuff enough times, you start to believe it and question your own sense of reality.

badinage Sun 21-Apr-13 01:49:27

So work on getting rid of your need for them to understand. Just accept that they don't, won't ever and that it really doesn't matter. Also that it's not your responsibility to make them understand.

It's far more important that your kids understand that behaviour like this in relationships isn't acceptable. Far better for them to see that women don't have to put up with this shit and can have careers and raise families on their own, without being beholden to blokes for work or homes.

Isetan Sun 21-Apr-13 01:59:58

Your marriage is dead and has been dead for some time, let it go. Bringing up children in bad relationships is damaging to them.

OM was temporary escapism and never would have led to a permanent satisfactory outcome. Your decision to "work on your marriage" take the path of least resistance is silly, staying with a controlling man who now insists that you don't work thus making you completely financially dependant on him, hmmm, I wonder how that's going to work out.

Of course your kids adore their dad, he's their dad, that doesn't make him a good dad. It has taken me an embarrassingly long time for me to admit that actually DD's dad is not a good dad because he doesn't posses the attributes that make a good dad. Actually, he barely passes for a dad because I work my arse off at being a good parent.

You need to counselling to figure out why you stay in a dead marriage and why you fell for the charms of an obvious liar and cheat.

"But the kids adore him" is the thing you tell yourself to excuse your inaction regarding officially ending your dead marriage.

stella1w Sun 21-Apr-13 03:39:23

My mum stayed in an unhapy marriage for the kids and it made us really unhappy. Your h sounds abusive and a crap dad who is never around. Forcimg you to stay at home is dreadful. This is not a good environment for your kids and a terrible example to them of relationships. Plus your husband could leave you high and dry, don't presume you would get a decent divorce settlement. Ltb now,

Lueji Sun 21-Apr-13 06:47:17

You need to get rid of your H and your family.

The OM here is a red herring that made you feel guilty and in the wrong.

You leave your job, stay at your Hs mercy and do you think he'll be a better husband.
I can guarantee you that he'll be a lot worse.

MummytoKatie Sun 21-Apr-13 11:06:40

Op - what exactly is happening to your business? You said it was 50/50 so why are you leaving it and not him? You were both unfaithful to your partners after all - not just you.

Are you selling him your share?

Could you set up self employed on your own?

I understand that if you stay with your husband you can't really work with OM (although no reason why you can't work) but what about if you leave him?

Re: your family / culture / faith. You do realise that by staying you are bringing your children up in the same culture? Do you have a daughter? In 30 years do you want her to stay in a violent marriage as that is what you are conditioning her to do.

GroundHogDayAgain Sun 21-Apr-13 13:43:14

Badinage- it's easier said than done. My parents are very close to me and I've always been afraid to let them down.

Isetan- your right. I do keep saying to myself the kids love him alot and he is great with them in the short time he has with them. I mentioned earlier that he works nights so he is not here for the most important part of the day which is the evening. I'm at home every night from 5pm alone with dcs. Dinner bath bed everything on my own.

Stella- at the moment one of his 'conditions' is that I leave the business and be sahm until he learns to trust me. But I've decided that IF I stay, I'm looking for a job, any job straightaway. He needs to accept that.
Re divorce- he doesn't have a dime to his name. Only thing he can give me is a mountain of debts. We don't even own a home.

Lueji- your right. I need to get on my own two feet and retain my independence.

Mummytokatie- we are 50/50 partners but om invested the vast majority of the capital. If have to pay him first then take out my share. Which I'm not in a position to do right now.

I can't set up on my own as I simply can't afford to.
I don't have a daughter, both ds's.

If have to leave business because om was doing all this for a future together. He didn't mind putting in the long hours and money as he thought we were going to be together.
Now Im leaving om, he obv isn't going to do this and why should he.

GroundHogDayAgain Sun 21-Apr-13 13:53:50

Dh has said to me that he will do anything it takes for us to move forward. He's prepared to move house, leave his work and get a regular 9-5job. I know he's desperate for us to stay together.

I know I can be a great mother, daughter, daughter in law. Even a wife in so far as the domestic side of it. But physical? That's where I've got the problem. How long will om be in my head every time dh comes near me. Even though I've not had a sexual relationship with om, ill always compare and wonder and imagine.

I don't think dh would do the crazy stuff going forwards. He did all that because he wanted to catch me out. Yes he has crossed the line though by taking my house keys and going there, effectively trespassing.

I also do think he will always bring om up when we argue/fall out/if I don't sleep with him etc.

It's not just about me, it's unfair on him isn't it to only have half of me.

Om has now told his dw everything about me. The business the house my dh everything. She moved out to her mothers last June.
Om wants to tell his family about me too. He wants us to move forwards and get married.

But everything we started on was built on lies. He doesn't seen to comprehend this and thinks now he's being honest I should be ok with him.

In the meantime, I've not been to work for over a week and I'm desolately worried. I have money to sort out, meetings planned, clients to see. Deadlines to meet. Vat and hmrc are chasing us.

Dh Wont let me go to work unless he 'escorts' me. Om won't let me go to work if dh is with me.

You couldn't make it up.

LisaMed Sun 21-Apr-13 14:16:26

So your husband wants to break you financially as well as emotionally and mentally?

LisaMed Sun 21-Apr-13 14:17:02

And I do not believe that your husband would get better. Not only would he have 'won' but he would now have all the power and you would be his to play with.

Offred Sun 21-Apr-13 14:33:19

He will not get better. He is willing to say anything to stop you leaving and ultimately get you back under his control. You should not have to negotiate a relationship like this. I doubt he cares about you not loving him, he sounds as though he just wants to own you and for this reason you should expect some extreme behaviour to shock you into never contemplating leaving him again if you do return.

You are allowing yourself to be treated as a chew toy between two dogs here, I think you need to grow some balls (I know much easier said...) and take control of the situation. DH cannot stop you going to a business you own to work, if he is trying the appropriate action is to leave him. OM shouldn't have anything to say about your husband coming with you (if that is what you want) to a business you own half of.

Offred Sun 21-Apr-13 14:35:32

IMHO you need to sack off all this shit about being great (according to fucked up oppressive standards) at being a wife and mother and you need to focus way more on being much better at just being you. You are not defined by your husband, parents or children.

your husband is abusive and enabled to be so by your family and culture.

i guess the question now is do you want your sons to become abusers enabled by their culture and with a total sense of entitlement to be such? do you want to be the doormat and another do as your told female to your sons or do you want to be their hero? the one who was brave enough to take a stand get out? the one who showed them a better way to live than just doing whatever people thought you should do because the only thing that mattered was what those people thought?

it would take a lot of courage but it could be done and the story of your life would really, really mean something.

as for the business - no matter what the inequity of the initial investment you'd be a fool to just walk away. you either keep going with it or you tell him he can buy you out (doesn't matter if you didn't put as much money in you have a stake in that business and you don't just roll over and slink off like a criminal).

you really could get out. imagine raising boys who don't think it's ok to hit a woman, don't think they're gods gift to the earth simply for having a penis, etc. then imagine the opposite and looking your future daughter in laws in the eye after they've been slapped or bullied or told how to breathe.

GroundHogDayAgain Sun 21-Apr-13 14:47:48

Lisamed- it does seem like if I stay with dh then he's won. But he's really really trying to pursuade me to stay and he wil do whatever I ask of him etc etc.

Offred- I see myself as a mother first, wife then daughter. I know that's not all that defines me. I don't know myself tbh what defines me. Even when I'm at work, I don't see myself as the job I do. My Dc is with me in my office and I'm a mother even there.

I guess the counselling will help me with this. I have no confidence at all anymore. And that's why I'm pathetically faffing about trying to decide what to do.

I've not spoken to om for a week now. I'm too afraid in case I'm listened in on. Just txts. But I do need to spk to him about everything moving forwards.

Ps. Sorry for the typos, I'm using my phone.

whatever you ask of him includes letting you keep your business presumably? or get another job?

CajaDeLaMemoria Sun 21-Apr-13 14:52:58

Then tell him that in order to move forwards with your marriage, you need to be able to work, you need couples counselling together and you both need independent counselling, for you to work on your confidence, and for him to work on his control issues.

When he declines, you'll at least know for sure that he's lying about being prepared to do anything to keep you.

Offred Sun 21-Apr-13 14:54:17

If you don't know what to do and think you are not currently equipped to decide what is the harm in simply doing nothing? Committing to nothing until you can make a decision?

You cannot be a mother, a wife and a daughter and not be you at all. Really this is what this whole thing is about isn't? You are trying very hard to fit a square peg into a round hole. You must define you, then you will be able to fit yourself into various roles; mother, wife, daughter much more happily and healthily.

It sounds like you are trying to obliterate yourself, counselling for you I think could be really good but are you ready for that?

AnyFucker Sun 21-Apr-13 14:56:28

if you H will do "whatever you ask of him" then why is he

1) forbidding you to work

2) hitting you

3) ignoring your emotional needs

4) uncaring of the fact you don't love him

5) enlisting his equally abusive family to collude in your oppression

SquidgyMummy Sun 21-Apr-13 15:05:52

I haven't read all of your thread, but you are definitely in an emotionally abusive marriage which is being condoned by your culture / faith.

Although your relationship was (in your words) built on lies, you haven't even had sex, and at least the OM is trying to do right by you, he has told his DW & Family, he is now seperated and wants to marry you. If you can get over the cultural baggage I really think there could be a future for you with the OM.

There is a possibility of a happy family life for your children; you cannot live your life trying to build a facade of respectable family life just so that you do not bring "shame" on your family.

MyNameIsSpecial Sun 21-Apr-13 15:23:20

Ok I can understand why your DH doesn't want you to work with OM and if this is a business partnership, it means no more business for you. Or at least not in the current form.

But PLEASE DO NOT STOP WORKING ALTOGETHER.

It would you in a very difficult situation where you will end up even more stuck than you are now. Think about it.
Whatever the reasons, you had an affair. Do you think that these reasons are still there? What if these reasons are still there in one year time. How will you leave if you want to? If you don't want to leave now for fear of being alone, how will it be in a one year's time when on the top of it you have no money at all?

Now if you take into account that one of the reason is that you don't love him, what do you think? Are you likely to be in love in a year's time? Or to still be in the same situation, dreaming to leave a loveless marriage?

GroundHogDayAgain Sun 21-Apr-13 16:08:55

Swallowed- lol. No it doesn't involve keeping my business. Although today he even said I could keep the business as long as I involved him in it. Om will never agree to this in a million years.

Caja- dh would happily do all the counselling. I'm pretty sure I could get another job but obv he would have an eagle eye on me always. Ie checking my phone, emails. He's said I can't keep a pin lock on my phone. Or that he needs to know the pin.

Offred- the harm in simply doing nothing is I HAVE to work out what to do re business. I can't just not go in whilst I figure it all out. Om will have to replace me/find someone to take over my role. He can't do it on his own. Plus om needs to know where he stands, he's left his house and move into his mothers. Is on the sofa right now. I know that's not my problem as he should have sorted all that himself. He was never going to live with me anyway so is not dependant on me for a roof, but he wants to know if I want to have a future with him and he can then take steps accordingly.

I am ready for counselling definitely. I need to sort all this out and find the guts to do the right thing. However scary that sounds.

AF- I think once all the shit has come off the fan, dh would be more reasonable and I think he would be ok with work. He only hit me once although I'm not saying that's ok. He says he's sure he will be able to bring back the love again.

Squidgy- do you really think there is a possibility of a future with om after he has lied so much to me? He's told me pretty much everything now, and is really sorry. I just wish he had come clean years ago.
Despite the lies about his dw and Dc, he couldn't do enough for me. He's been amazing the past few years and really helped me so much.

I am considering him to be a possibility but the trust issue is a major factor. He's nothing like dh. Has never demanded anything of me or tried to control me. He encouraged me to put dcs into private school even though I was worried about the money and said we will figure it out.

My name- one of the main reasons why I turned to om was lack of attention and friendship etc. dh was a workaholic. He had no time for me and Dc. I had pre-eclampsia and a section, then pnd. But I did everything a-z at home alone. Feeds, nappies, baths cooking cleaning etc. it was a tough time. Om came along at this time.

Dh left/got let go from his job and only since then has he started to be a bit more hands on with dcs and hw. He works nights now so still not there like he should be.
I'm sure if I gave it a chance I could find the friendship with dh again. But that's not enough for a good marriage I know that.

And you made an excellent point re how will it be in a years time. My biggest fear is that it'll be the same but ill be more dependant on him.

Offred Sun 21-Apr-13 16:27:32

You need to go in to the business and carry on with it as you were before, I think you just need to do nothing regarding leaving it or deciding between the two men just yet. You have to go back to work anyway by the sounds of it as you aren't going to find a replacement soon enough to take over what has piled up.

CajaDeLaMemoria Sun 21-Apr-13 16:50:15

Can you do nothing, for now?

Try working, but without talking about feelings with the OM? Work as friends, and colleagues, but don't entertain conversations about your future yet.

Or, could you tell OM that you need space and time, and see if he will give you it? Movein to the house yyou have available, and get counselling, and keep things civil (or friendly if possible) without committing to either man for now?

i'm lost. you say you're in love with this man and he wants to be with you and you have a business together that is going well.....? why can't you be with this man?

GroundHogDayAgain Sun 21-Apr-13 17:27:47

Offred- this is what I want but as I said in prev post, om and dh are locking horns. Dh wants to go with me to work and om won't let that happen. So basically, if I go to the office without dh I have to pack my bags and leave home.

Caja- this would be the ideal situation for me but don't know if om will agree to give me time to clear my head. In any event, going to the office means leaving home. I'm considering this seriously.

Swallowed- I don't blame you for being abit lost. It's a mess on an epic scale. I love om and have business with him. Was planning on marrying at some later stage. But he had lied to me abt his dw and Dc etc so the trust issue is there now. He's not with his dw now anyway so nothing stopping us in that respect. But I didn't have a clue about his dw and Dc situation and if I did I would have walked away from him.

CajaDeLaMemoria Sun 21-Apr-13 17:31:10

I hope it doesn't sound like I think this will be easy, I know it must seem a huge decision to you.

But you sound more than capable of doing it, and sometimes, being in the situation makes the path ahead feel Blurred.

Speak to the OM, if you can. Tell him you need time, and that if he wants you to consider a possible future with him, he needs to give you that. It's the least he can do, really. Then you can move out, and get some professional help dealing with your feelings. Counselling will make everything clearer.

agree it's a huge worry that he didn't tell you. interesting though that you didn't walk away based on you having a dh and children yet would have walked away if you knew his situation was the same as yours.

Guiltypleasures001 Sun 21-Apr-13 18:19:13

Hi Op

Sorry but i think trying to make your marriage work will be a mistake, you checked out for a reason, and I believe you dh is going to try and lock you in to the marriage and leave you no where to run, he will if he hasnt already start to cut off all means of escape.

get out with the kids and hole up somewhere even for a few days to get away from both of them, your not getting any head space, and nothing I have read in your posts tells me anything about what you really want. If what other posters have said about his past behaviour your at risk of sleep walking back in to an even worse situation you were trying to escape from. Your being bullied even now, and staying for the kids is never a good enough reason.

Offred Sun 21-Apr-13 18:53:38

You don't have to pack your bags and leave, he has no right to force you out of the home and it is ridiculous to suggest you must have an escort or you will be homeless.

It is not all that ridiculous for OM not to want your DH around at work making a fool of you and damaging the business.

DH can take a running jump can't he? You will go to work, if he follows you you will call the police and have him arrested for harassing you. You will not leave your home unless you decide to and if he decides he no longer wants to live there he can leave. In these circumstances I think this is reasonable. DH is being pathetic and controlling.

SquidgyMummy Sun 21-Apr-13 21:15:46

OP,

I read more of the thread and if I have the sequence of events right, OM didn't say he was married for a while, but you did know that he was married with a pregnant wife, when you were still friends, before you got more involved with him. So you did knowingly have (an emotional) affair with a married man. Not judging but pointing out that at that point, you were no more or less culpable than him. His biggest wrongdoing to date towards you leaving his estranged DW out of it for now is lying by omission.

I think you have more of a future with OM, than you DH tbh, but as other posters have said, I would just live alone for a while with your DS's and have some counselling whist you get you head straight.

I suggest you read some of the other threads about emotionally abusive relationships, because leaving it is definitely the most dangerous time. I would definitely get some advice from Women's aid as your husband seems to have very obsessive traits.

good luck

specialsubject Sun 21-Apr-13 22:06:13

get out before one of you kills the other.

you don't love him, you don't want to be with him.
he doesn't like you. He hits you.

you will damage your children so, so badly if they have to live with this. THAT is your responsibility.

sod the religion and what the parents think. Only one life.

GroundHogDayAgain Sun 21-Apr-13 22:37:46

Caja- I'm going to spk to om and do as you suggested thanks x

Swallowed- yes you make a valid point. Hindsight is great and of course the right thing to do would have been to sort out my issues with dh rather than get too close to someone else. You don't know how much I wish I could have done things differently.

Guilty- I wish I could get away from all this with dcs. But I know it's a mess of my own making so I need to 'woman up' and deal with it. And staying for kids is exactly what I would be doing. I know that's wrong though.

Offred- I wish dh could think like you. But unfortunately he doesn't. The house we live in is not ours, it's dhs fathers. So I have no rights over it at all. I wish I could tell you more about why dh is being like this but you wouldn't even believe me. It's insane.

Squidgy- yes om told me he was married but separated for a few years. He said his dw came back to try again but they ended up arguing and she left. I wasn't really close to om at that point. He told me about his dw and that she was pregnant literally a month before she was due.
Again at that point we were just friends. I and some other work colleagues who he told tried to persuade him to support her and make it work but he said it was over.

I have dcs and I would never take a father/mother away from their dcs knowingly. I don't think any decent person would.
And yes I am def going to live alone with dcs and arrange counselling. It was never my intention to live with om straightaway anyway. My dcs would already have alot to adjust to.

Squidgy dh def has obsessive traits for sure.

Special- dh hit me just once. I don't think he would do it again. I'm not defending him but I know he really loves me and is just desperate to fix us.
I feel so so guilty at doing this to him, if he had been the same as he was earlier ie completely absent, I could have justified it to myself. But he's really tried to change the past year. It's too little too late but I feel extremely responsible for doing all this.

GroundHogDayAgain Sun 21-Apr-13 22:39:04

Can I just say a huge thank you to every single person that's posted here. It's amazing the kind of advice I've got and that people actually CARE ENOUGH to do it.

Thank you all x

Offred Mon 22-Apr-13 07:18:27

If you live there and neither of you own the home how can he make you leave though? It is up to his father, but ultimately I'm pretty sure you should have some rights, I don't think your FIL can let to you without a contract for example and one may have been created by your presence in the house. Maybe worth having a look at shelter's site here: http://m.england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice and maybe calling their advice line.

Ultimately I think though the power is yours, he has to convince you he is right in order to get you to do what he wants.

I think you'd be safer in the other home though anyway, but it must be put into your name.

Offred Mon 22-Apr-13 07:20:49

Oh and I'm sure we would believe... I'm sure we would, we've seen a lot on this board and in our own lives. I have court papers where my x accuses my female friend and her ex of impregnating me, he had raped me.

GroundHogDayAgain Mon 22-Apr-13 09:09:56

Offred- that's horrific.... Are you ok now?? I'm sorry you have been through that, it's disgusting. I hope your ex gets what's coming to him.

Re the house, FIL will obv support dh whatever happens. In fact, FIL had told dh that don't worry if she leaves you, I've got plenty of potential women in mind for you to get married to. Lol.

And tbh, I wouldn't want to stay here. All dhs family live in immediate proximity. So it wouldn't be a nice atmosphere. My family live around 25miles away and that's where the rented house is.

Offred, I'm going to try and go to the office today, lets see how dh reacts to that. I may just be packing my bags later though.

I will come back and post later and tell you of what dh believes and thinks is the cause of this. Trust me you will think 'wtf?!'

CajaDeLaMemoria Mon 22-Apr-13 09:33:38

Good luck today. I hope it all goes well: start with confidence and self-belief, and today might be the day you start a better life for all of you. You've got a house close to your family, and you run a successful business, so you've got a lot to go on.

Be strong, and you'll do just fine.

AnyFucker Mon 22-Apr-13 09:53:34

Good luck x

GroundHogDayAgain Mon 22-Apr-13 09:57:23

Caja- thank you xxx

I'm sat in my room too scared to actually tell dh I'm going to work.

Help :-(

GroundHogDayAgain Mon 22-Apr-13 09:57:57

Thanks AF X

AnyFucker Mon 22-Apr-13 10:07:56

Make sure you stay safe, first and foremost, I don't trust your h not to get violent. Call the police if he does, he cannot keep you imprisoned, it is a criminal offence

I understand that he doesn't want you to spend time with om, and that is always the advice for affair recovery. It isn't always feasible though. You have a business to run, and even if you were to wind it up, you would have to sort out the practicalities

Offred Mon 22-Apr-13 10:16:43

Oh yes, fine now! X is the dad of two of my children, what I hope is not that he gets what he might very well deserve, but that he sorts himself out and provides what they undoubtedly deserve from him.

But you see, if or when you want to talk about anything that might have happened, things you may have done, things he may have done, whatever, we will not be shocked into disbelief.

Offred Mon 22-Apr-13 10:19:20

Good luck today.

You have a right to work.

You have a right to a home, if he really is that desperate he may well make it emotionally unbearable to be in the home even if he physically couldn't keep you out.

I echo AF about being careful, defying a very controlling partner can be dangerous, it is not a reason to not do it, but a reason to have outside agencies like the police and WA at least aware of you and to be extremely careful.

Offred Mon 22-Apr-13 10:21:13

You know if you are frightened of what he will do if you try and leave for work you can get the police to help you do it.

Right now your husband will say ANYTHING to make you change your mind. But actions speak louder than words dont they?

He is also saying that you wont be allowed to work.
You will have no privacy and no private life.
He is following you and spying on you.

You do realize that the only reason why he would get a 9-5 job is to ensure he will be able to keep an eye on you every evening?

You will never fall in love with him again. He is a lying violent manipulative shit.
That is why you fell in love with somebody else. You wont fall in love with him again, by bowing to his demands and become a submissive wife against your will!

You must leave him. Speak to WA. Speak to your GP. If necessary, get a restraining order!

GroundHogDayAgain Mon 22-Apr-13 10:36:17

Thanks everyone for your support.

I've just told him about going to work and he's said fine. Go to work but take your stuff with you and don't come back.

I don't know what to do.

That is your way out!

Take your stuff and go to your new flat!

GroundHogDayAgain Mon 22-Apr-13 10:38:14

I feel really stuck. Should I pack my stuff and go

Pack all important documents, such as bank documents, birth certificates, marriage certificate, passports, child benefit numbers et etc

Along with clothes for yourselves and your children.

Anything else you need? When is he going to work?

GroundHogDayAgain Mon 22-Apr-13 10:41:14

He's now having an argument with my parents.

Telling them that I need to leave here if I want to go to work

Honestly feels like a nightmare.

Can you get your parents to come and help you move your stuff?

GroundHogDayAgain Mon 22-Apr-13 10:42:54

Quint- he doesn't go to work till evening but it's his day off today.

I've got all my docs at the office. I could get some stuff packed and go but I literally feel frozen in fear

You have more to fear staying, than going to be honest!

When can you move into your flat?

GroundHogDayAgain Mon 22-Apr-13 10:43:46

My parents are abroad right now. They are back in a week.

Offred Mon 22-Apr-13 10:51:49

Honestly I think the right thing to do is to pack up and leave but maybe not right now. You have tenants rights in that house no matter whether your FIL is the landlord, especially if you pay rent. They cannot keep you from your things or from your home. Is it possible this fuss about packing is just another way of meaning you can't go because you will have to do all the packing and carting of things around like a snail.

Honestly I think I would call the police, tell them that you want to go to work but your husband is preventing you and threatening you about the home and that you are frightened because he has in the past hit you.

Very good advice from offred there.

Offred Mon 22-Apr-13 10:54:12

I think you know you need to go, I'm not saying you should stay in the house at all or fight to be able to but if you have to go right now with all your things you can't go to work can you? If the police come they will likely ask him to leave and give you some space for 24 hours and then you will have time an space to pack and leave on your own terms and the police will be aware of the situation before anything really bad happens.

hairtearing Mon 22-Apr-13 10:55:43

This sounds like a bad idea, he sounds v. controlling
although an affair is always inexcusable, I would leave and make a life on your own for yourself and children,
making yourself totally reliant on a controlling man is a scary thought.

I absolutely agree you should make the police an ally in this. It will make it easier for you in the long run if there is a police record of his abuse.

Offred Mon 22-Apr-13 10:56:45

someone who cared about you or the children would not be behaving like this by the way. It has become entirely about forcing you to comply IMO not about saving the marriage, although he may consider those things to be synonymous.

He is not saving any marriage by putting a gun to your head / by force, this is purely about control.

AnyFucker Mon 22-Apr-13 10:59:14

He cannot throw you out of your home like this. I think you should leave him but when it suits you

If your issue today is that you need to go into work, then do that and respond to any actions (rather than threats he has no jurisdiction to impose) that he makes accordingly

And all the while, keep making your plans to leave him safely

Offred Mon 22-Apr-13 11:08:56

I have to get back to work, will check in later, hope you are alright. x

Pigsmummy Mon 22-Apr-13 11:09:35

I think you need to specify a time limit for giving this a go, six months for example, if its open ended you will suffer, I understand that to sever ties with the om you need to give up this job but with the time limit can you then look for another job? Your husband realises that you are successful and attractive, that is what is making him scared about you working, If after six months (or whatever time agreed) if the situation is not good then you can say it's over, with a clear conscience and your husband can't say that you haven't tried. In that time do the counselling, talking is good.

Pigsmummy Mon 22-Apr-13 11:19:10

Very confused by your posts but ignore my last post, it's clear that in your head you have already decided to leave, however you need to think about how to get him to leave, if your business is successful then you can be a strong woman, you say you can earn loads more than your husband so keep the family home and stability for the children. Get an appointment with a family solicitor

GroundHogDayAgain Mon 22-Apr-13 12:54:29

We had a massive argument and he said the most disgusting things in front of Dc.

I can't even look at him right now. He's gone out and I'm sat here with dc2.
ive told om I can't come in to work and he's being ok about it. I'm worried sick about what to do. I didn't want to say what I do for a living but I'm a litigation lawyer. I have court hearings coming up, clients to see, all the fees to bill etc.

I can't believe that in a job which requires me to be professional and confident and organised I seem to be the complete opposite in my personal life.

Offred I know you said call the police but honestly I don't want to take things to such a level. I want to as much as possible keep things civil for dcs sake. After all dh will be in my life as long as we have the dcs together.
Btw offred I'm glad to hear things are ok with your ex now x

AF- I agree with you and totally understand why dh wouldn't want to be around om,but like you said, I have to sort out the practicalities. Given my work, I can't just stop going in. In fact almost any job, you still have to give your notice and leave properly.

Quint- I know you are right. I appreciate your advice alot honestly. I don't think I will ever 'learn' to love dh again. Not after recent events anyway.

Hair tearing- he totally wants to control me. I even said to him today that if I stay with you don't think I will stay at home and not work. Ill be looking for a job, any job anywhere. He said no. That's not going to happen.

Pigs mummy- dh actually instructed sol re divorce but I have yet to hear anything from them. In my head I have already left. Years ago. I just can't seem to get my feet to follow.

AnyFucker Mon 22-Apr-13 12:59:04

Love, this is untenable.

he has told you now how it is going to be. He will never "allow" you to work outside the home.

Did you envisage that when you worked so hard to get your qualifications, that you would ever find yourself being dictated to as to whether you could use them by an inadequate man such as this ?

If your husband is out, just pack your stuff and leave!

You have a house to go to, you have a job! Your pay is good! Whether you stay with OM or not remains to be seen but you dont have to decide that now!

Freedom is at your fingertips, it is just a question of grabbing it!

Why are you even trying to negotiate with him!? It is not going to be possible.

Offred Mon 22-Apr-13 13:05:11

In my experience calling the police helps you do precisely that. Sometimes it is necessary to enforce an atmosphere of civility and the expectation that an atmosphere of civility is required. The police would attend in those circumstances to aid you in doing precisely that! What you have here is not an atmosphere of civility at all.

Not calling the police I think cannot be so much about trying to keep things civil, since they already are not. I think it is often about keeping things secret, not wanting to confront or feeling afraid that if you do the non-civil person will escalate massively, frighteningly and humiliatingly and you will no longer be able to avoid the truth about them.

We probably all understand that. It is very difficult to reconcile the idea of yourself as a big important career person or intelligent and articulate etc with the idea of yourself also being the victim of abuse. This is how abuse happens and I think for some abusers bringing down such a person into their complete control represents an extra satisfaction compared to choosing someone who is already cowed.

Again Offred is right.

You can be as civil as you like, but this is not going to help you, as your husband is as far from civil as he can be!

LisaMed Mon 22-Apr-13 13:17:31

I have done bits around the fringes of the law. Not legally trained but have a bit of insight.

You need to reframe your husband. He is not your husband, he is the opposition. He is the opposing solicitor with the nutjob client, he is the nutjob client, he is the court clerk that has lost your file and randomly relisted your case. He is the judge that is ignoring the research or who has decided to be awkward, asked for reports with a ridiculously tight schedule but reserved the case to himself so you know it won't get a hearing in the next six months. This is the nutjob client that wants you somehow to win a case based on his temper tantrum and with no reliable connection to any legal form or precedent - HE IS NOT YOUR FRIEND AND IT IS GOING TO GET WORSE.

hth

GroundHogDayAgain Mon 22-Apr-13 13:23:59

Af- I never thought I would be in such a position. I worked hard to get where I am and tbh I feel abit worthless now.

I wish I had the common sense to sort out my issue with dh rather than turn to om. Om also is a sol. We just had alot more in common and he really understood me.
It's all blown up in my face now and I guess I deserve all this. I feel like I've brought out the worst in dh by my behaviour.

Offred- maybe dh does like the fact that he can control me because he knows socially and academically I am in a better position than he is. But he still gets to wear the pants and be the man where it matters most.

Quint- negotiating with dh is impossible right now. He has involved all my family and is now saying he's going to see oms family and dw and tell them everything too. Oms dw knows anyway now but I don't see why he has to take things to such a level.
What I'm trying to get through to him is that we need to sort out stuff going forwards and forget about om for now. But he's fixated on om only and blames him for everything.

GroundHogDayAgain Mon 22-Apr-13 13:29:04

Lisamed- that made me laugh. Do you know all your examples have actually happened to me so many times?! Pesky judges. Lol.

In all seriousness, I've pretty much decided that I need to leave dh now. I feel very very depressed they I've done this to my innocent dcs.

I got the house organised and school organised precisely because I wanted to do things properly and in an organised manner so dcs would not be caught in www3. I had intended to sit down with dh and discuss everything re contact etc.

But it's gone the complete opposite way.

hairtearing Mon 22-Apr-13 13:35:29

you were talking about 'wanting to keep things civil' but they aren't

rowing and saying disgusting things in front of the dc, that horse has bolted I think.

Offred Mon 22-Apr-13 13:36:14

It was always going to go the other way IMO. Your DH has never had any intention of being reasonable.

Fundamentally I think an exercise of apportioning blame is completely redundant and unhelpful. It is not your fault though, if I had to apportion blame based on what has been said.

Honestly, you have lived as an emotional island because, largely, of the destruction of any intimacy or ability to be intimate caused by your controlling and abusive H. From what you have said he does not love and care for you in a healthy way, he is one of those people who have grown up confusing love and relationships with power and control. He may have wanted to have you, people who love you don't want to have you, they want to love you!

You haven't even done anything that bad. So what you had your head turned and kissed another man, fell for him, made plans... Not desirable, but in the circumstances very understandable, don't you think? OM probably helped you to stay so long by making the marriage bearable.

Offred Mon 22-Apr-13 13:44:46

Women's aid I think would very much help you readjust your feelings about yourself.

For now though you need to do some things, even if you have to fake the strength, to empower yourself.

I suggest that they would be packing up and moving into the new house this afternoon. Calling OM and apologising for today at work, explain you are moving into house but that you need to put a hold on any discussions about a possible relationship while you deal with the actual marriage breakdown and the children's transition to the new home, do not promise him anything and make it clear that you will initiate discussion regarding any relationship when you are ready then state that you will be coming back to work and that you will be in work tomorrow/when you think is reasonable. Then delete DH's details, block him from communicating with you for now. Give yourself at least a week's break from him to settle in the house. Think about speaking to the police on 101 for advice and also women's aid.

But also don't beat yourself up if you want to wallow a little in self-pity. The priority in life terms has to be actually keeping hold of what you have (dc and business) whilst you think and keeping yourself safe but you are allowed to have feelings about that.

LisaMed Mon 22-Apr-13 13:48:02

When I was a court clerk I was sworn at by some of the best solicitors in the county lol - and met some lovely ones as well. Really wishing you luck.

CajaDeLaMemoria Mon 22-Apr-13 13:49:35

Call OM and ask him to put the keys for the house at work or something. Use Offred's advice for speaking to him and asking him for time.

You can do this. You need to get away from your husband.

GroundHogDayAgain Mon 22-Apr-13 13:50:52

You know something offred, after I had dc2, om used to call me every day to make sure I was ok and that I was eating/sleeping properly. I genuinely believe that because of him I didn't get pnd again.

Dh was nowhere to be seen. After I had both dcs. I received no physical mental or practical support whatsoever. I'm not excusing my behaviour btw. Just saying that dh now refuses to see that we had out problems for so many years. Not just suddenly when om came along.

My parents have now asked me to stay put and soon as they get back they will help me to sort everything out. Not sure whether this means staying or leaving though.

I feel like a coward and just want someone to tell me what to do and do it for me.

fuzzywuzzy Mon 22-Apr-13 13:57:45

you're an adult, nobody is going to live your life for you.

you either leave and take repsonsibility for your own happiness and that of your childrens or you stay with in an unhappy marriage and hand all control and autonomy over to an already controlling an unpleasant man.

It will be much harder to leave once you've shut the door on yourself like that.

whats the worst that you think will happen if you get divorced?

AnyFucker Mon 22-Apr-13 13:58:18

Nobody can do it for you, love

Offred's advice is very good. But we can't give you the strength to sort it out. You have it in you ...dig deep and you will find it. I don't think your H has quite managed to destroy you completely just yet.

Offred Mon 22-Apr-13 13:59:15

go to the house, let your parents help you from there when they get back.

This is a controlling man who is losing control.

The quicker you move, the more of yourself, your children and your belongings you will save. I really think it is that serious.

It is funny how many women with abusive husbands get PND isn't it? angry

Offred Mon 22-Apr-13 14:00:16

small steps, no blame please.

Make yourself safe, look back after and assess.

GroundHogDayAgain Mon 22-Apr-13 14:00:46

Offred that's great advice, I think I will do that. I don't know whether I should wait for my parents or go tomorrow.
I definitely want to get away from dh and om and work and just be on my own with dcs. I've actually considered moving abroad, pretty drastic I know. But I couldn't practice law outside uk.

Lisamed- I would never swear at you or anyone that's really awful. But it can get quite heated can't it. Especially when it's not going in your favour! Thanks for your advice xx

Caja- I have the house keys already. Remember I mentioned that dh took them from my bag and went to the house behind my back.
It's pretty much ready to move into. Just food and other basic essentials to pick up.

Arrrrrggghhhh.... Someone come and give me a big kick on the arse

<Kicks>

wearing soft bunny slippers

Offred Mon 22-Apr-13 14:07:52

Don't wait for your parents. If he is out now then go as soon as you can. Any delay will provide the possibility for further speculation and procrastination. It will delay your ability to actually take back control of your life. Don't think, just go, your parents aren't actually here to see how difficult things are and you may not be able to fully count on them to be your friends in this if they have the same religious beliefs.

Letting him come back and then going another time will just create another opportunity for a massive stink. If you cannot face going today then make your decision immovable in your mind, keep it secret and wait until he goes to work.

LisaMed Mon 22-Apr-13 14:12:19

Last time you were getting a right load of grief from some court clerk that has three GCSE's to their name but think they are God because someone has been crazed enough to make them listing clerk, I am sure you dealt with it professionally, coolly and with detachment. That's what you need now, this is adversarial negotiations. Your parents are third parties who are not sympathetic. You have the thought processes to deal with this very efficiently.

Really wishing you luck!

CajaDeLaMemoria Mon 22-Apr-13 14:17:47

Go on, go now. It's ready, and waiting for you. That couldn't be any more perfect.

kick kick

GroundHogDayAgain Mon 22-Apr-13 14:43:31

Fuzzy- just worried about impact of divorce/separation on dcs. I always thought I would give them everything in life. Materially they have it all but emotionally they are going into a broken home. My biggest fear is dh being awkward re contact.

Af- I hope your right and I do have that strength your talking about. I feel as far from strong as is possible right now.

Offred- I know the longer I stay the worse it's going to get. It's getting worse by the day. I have made the decision in my mind to leave dh now. It would take a major miracle for us to have a chance now. I'm going to look into any practical help I could get ie benefits if I have to leave work. I've paid more than fair share of taxes, I must be entitled to something right? I only get basic child benefit at the mo.

Lisa- omg, some listing clerks think they know it all!! I've come across some ridiculously awkward ones. Sometimes I wasn't always cool though and it resulted in slamming phones down! I thought I did have the thought process to deal with it efficiently but evidently not.

Caja and quint, thanks for kicks! Can you manage a shove too?

I am seriously overwhelmed at the advice I've received here. Can't say it enough.

LisaMed Mon 22-Apr-13 14:51:33

I know of at least one Chief Clerk (or whatever the term is now) in a top tier court who started with the Civil Service at 16. Just think of the qualifications they started with - scary! And they weren't the worst that I've heard of by a loooong stretch.

But not as scary as your position. You have the skills, take the emotions out of it, look for minimum loss to your position (hint - not staying with your husband is a good start), quickest resolution, etc. This is urgent damage limitation with high risk to the most important client of all - you.

hope this is helping. It's a long time since I had to prepare a file.

i'm offering massive kicks from here.

just go!

how on earth realistically could the effects of separated parents be upon your children than the effects of things continuing as they are? they really, really, really can only get better off by you moving out.

you don't have to give up work - you have a well paid job - a new house to live in ready and waiting and...??? what's not to love when the alternative is becoming a bloody victim of house arrest with a jailkeeper who is a nasty bully who won't even be able to provide adequate financial support let alone emotional, mental and practical support for you and you children?

Gingersstuff Mon 22-Apr-13 15:23:30

I don't normally post on here, but fgs, get up and just GO. There will never be a better opportunity, you have a house lined up, your rent paid, just DO IT. You're obviously a smart, sensible woman...do you honestly not see that to bring your children up in this kind of atmosphere is not acceptable? You're doing them a grave disservice if all they see of relationships is the woman cowering under the man's lash. This is not "giving them everything", by any means. Your husband has made it perfectly clear how this is going to go if you stay. You will slowly but surely be left with nothing, in every sense of the word. You will not be allowed to work - wtf is that all about? - and eventually you will not be allowed out of the house without his say-so.
You have the perfect opportunity and the means to leave. Do it NOW. Please.

Offred Mon 22-Apr-13 15:28:55

I think you have to look at it from the perspective that at the moment they are living in a home which is broken, with parents who are broken and breaking. If you leave you will both be able to have the opportunity to make safe stable environments for yourselves and the children.

You are not responsible for trying to make sure he does this if you split and if he doesn't then your role is exclusively damage limitation.

fuzzywuzzy Mon 22-Apr-13 15:42:32

Groundhog, my children and I are much closer due to my being divorced, they are happier and have chosen not to see him, which I will have finalised in court next month fingers crossed the judge agrees.

The difference between the frightenend little mice they were when I was married to ex is shocking, when you split, speak to the school and see if they will offer extra pastroal care for your chidlren, my eldest was given CBT by the school SENCO as the duration of the marriage had really screwed her up poor thing.

Your chidlren will be happy not having to walk on egg shelsl and live in an envrionment where there is a threat of violence.

Lueji Mon 22-Apr-13 16:01:43

Definite kick.

I hope you have already gone. smile

PyroclasticFlo Mon 22-Apr-13 17:32:15

Delurking to give you a loving and gentle but firm KICK!! Please go, it's the best gift you can give yourself and your DCs xx

AnyFucker Mon 22-Apr-13 17:57:12

how are things, OP ?

GroundHogDayAgain Mon 22-Apr-13 19:28:27

Hi everyone, thanks for your messages x

I'm still here, I didn't go to work as he just went mental about it.

I've decided that I'm 100% leaving dh.

The things he said to me today are too disgusting to even repeat on here. I knew then really that I'm beginning to now hate this guy and I don't want to for dcs sake.

My parents are back in a few days and ill be sitting down with him and them as mediators effectively and agree on contact etc.

I've not spoken to him all day and just been trying to avoid each other.

I'm just trying to imagine life on my own with dcs and it scares me but tbh, I've pretty much been on my own throughout the marriage.

I know I need to stay strong for dcs but it's bloody hard when I feel like a little chicken inside.

I'm going to work tomorrow..... With dh. Yes I know. It's ridiculous. But I just want to go in and deal with all the urgent stuff. I'm hoping dh will sit there outside my office and feel like a prize idiot. It's just for a few days.

AnyFucker Mon 22-Apr-13 19:34:12

You do what you need to do, love.

If h insists on coming to work with you tomorrow, just utterly ignore him. He is making a prick of himself, tbh.

You do need to leave him. How could staying with such a man be better than getting your life back, on your own terms, and preventing your dc's from absorbing some very damaging lessons about relationships ?

Offred Mon 22-Apr-13 19:37:36

It is pointless but perhaps also equally pointless to tell you over the things said up thread.

I do think you need to think very carefully about allowing dh to come to work and sit outside your office like a guard dog. OM would be well within his rights to have him removed by the police if he wanted. It could potentially damage the business (that may well be his aim, to make it so that you can't work) and it sends a message to DH that you believe his very disruptive and controlling behaviour is right which ultimately puts your children at risk because he will attribute a change of heart about his behaviour to your unreasonableness very easily if you try to assert something different when you split.

I'd also seriously warn against having your parents as mediators. If you absolutely have to sort out contact before you leave then do it with an actual mediator. Your parents will not be able to help you in this way. It would be entirely unreasonable and unfair to all of you to try it!

Uppatreecuppatea Mon 22-Apr-13 19:38:40

I have lurked but had to post.

Go to work tomorrow. If he has to sit outside (or even inside), then so be it. He will feel very small about it, no doubt. You just carry on, be professional and get on with your business. He'll get bored soon enough.

I too was so scared to leave DH but I did it. God knows what I was so scared of. It's actually a lot easier than your mind thinks it will be. You are already doing it anyway.

Wishing you strength.

AnyFucker Mon 22-Apr-13 20:06:48

I second that you need professional mediation here.

Consult a family law solicitor ASAP and start the divorce ball rolling

Surely with your training you understand that family members are not in any position to be impartial ?

GroundHogDayAgain Mon 22-Apr-13 22:47:34

Offred- I was only going to ask my parents to sit in just to calm the situation. He does listen to them more than me and they have a way of talking to him which I don't.
Obviously if we can't agree then it will have to be via a professional.

Uppa- was your ex dh similar? Did you leave for similar reasons?

AF- I think he's already instructed a sol. Yet to hear anything from them though. Again we will get professional mediator if we can't work it out between us.
I did family law as part of my course almost 10years ago, i really only remember the basics. Wish I had studied something that could have actually been of use to me in RL though.

Earlier on dh told me that I have disrespected him and our families and let the dcs down. He said he doesn't want us to stay together and I should leave asap.

He was upset.

I felt like shit.

Offred Mon 22-Apr-13 23:17:59

You shouldn't put your parents in the middle of your marital dispute, it won't work out well. I doubt they speak to him differently. It is a bit pointless even if they do, they're your parents, he can turn on them when he feels like it. Pick and choose what he listens to, he has the power. The fundamental thing is that he has to respect you.

He needs to be expected to respect you and learn how to do that. A marriage is just a marriage. If he really cannot respect you he isn't safe to look after dc. He doesn't have to like you, he doesn't have to love you, he can even hate you but he absolutely must have respect for you, or at least be respectful to you, as a person and the mother of his children or they will suffer whether you stay or go.

Focusing on trying to get this done with as little overt disagreement as possible is not good. You need to make sure you get the basics right and accept a certain degree of conflict as long as it is productive IMO.

Offred Mon 22-Apr-13 23:19:19

The most basic thing being getting him to accept that you are a person and not his chattel.

GroundHogDayAgain Mon 22-Apr-13 23:31:58

Offred- I think he respects me in his own way but obv recent events have led him to lose any respect for me and I can't blame him at all.

And I honestly didn't involve my parents, dh involved them by telling them everything. I like to keep my family out of my business as much as poss. I hate to give them more stress, they are retired and should be happy and relaxed not fighting my battles.

But anyway. I can only blame myself now and I just hope that things can be civil going forward.

You need to remove yourself from this situation, so you both get space. Move into your flat.

Offred Tue 23-Apr-13 01:20:41

'In his own way?' You mean not at all? hmm sorry love but there's either respect or no respect. He has not demonstrated he has any for you.

You haven't done anything really bad at all.

GroundHogDayAgain Tue 23-Apr-13 09:42:40

Morning xx

So today I'm going into work with my bodyguard aka dh.

Om is really not happy about this at all.

I feel totally torn in the middle.

Last night dh txt me another 20odd times. Saying he will be getting married again asap blah blah. Really giving me the major guilt trip.

It's weird but it really bothered me the thought of him marrying someone else. It just felt wrong. Is this normal??

I don't know how ill feel having dh and om in same vicinity.

I keep wobbling from being 100% sure abt leaving dh to doubting myself.

What's the right thing to do?

GroundHogDayAgain Tue 23-Apr-13 09:58:21

One other thing I didn't mention, sex life with dh was literally non-existent from the day we married. I used to absolutely hate it. It was boring and monotonous.

He used to really do my head in about it and I used to eventually cave in thinking well if I do it tonight then he won't bother me for another week or two.

That's awful isn't.

What are the chances of that improving if I was to stay. And that had absolutely nothing to do with om.

Hi OP, been reading, but not posted yet. In answer to your last question, I think the chances of that improving if you stay are nil.

You don't love him. You don't like having sex with him. He is behaving as if he owns you, which will not help.

Am aghast that he should be accompanying you in to work in this way. I understand about you doubting yourself. Guilt has a lot to do with this.

But, really, what is the worst that can happen if you leave? And the same question again if you stay.

From where I'm sitting staying looks a whole lot worse.

Best of luck with the crazy activities of today.

GroundHogDayAgain Tue 23-Apr-13 10:53:04

Thanks Scarlett, I appreciate your advice. I'm leaving for work now. Ill post back later and update as to how it went.

Feeling full of dread already. :-(

CajaDeLaMemoria Tue 23-Apr-13 10:56:26

Don't be. If he wants to follow you around like a scorned puppy, let him. Just get on with your day.

I mean, is he expecting that you'll have mad sex with the OM in the office? Him accompanying you is ridiculous. It's territorial, and intended to punish and embarrass you, and to intimidate the OM.

Don't let him embarrass you. Let him sit outside for as long as he likes. He's only wasting his own time, and making himself look like a fool.

As soon as you can, leave. It'll be much better out of this situation.

You know what the right thing to do is!
Please stop blaming yourself.
You have been in a horrible relationship for years and years.
You now need to get away urgently.
Good luck and hope work is going OK!?

Offred Tue 23-Apr-13 12:16:48

All the sex stuff, the bombarding you with texts about marrying someone else, the following you to work etc it is all about demonstrating to you that he does not recognise you as a person. You are a thing to be used and replaced when you are no useful.

No-one can make any of these choices for you, no-one should. We all know what would be right but you need to see it too. Perhaps he has not been bad enough to open your eyes, perhaps he never will but believe me as a child I grew up in a house like (less bad though) this and it is why I modelled that behaviour in relationships as a young adult.

I do not have a close relationship with my parents, who are still together and I will never forgive them for prioritising their (broken) relationship over their four children. My mum has actually said if faced with the choice she would choose my dad over her children. Which is what she has actually done in practice. She has said it is more important that we achieve than are happy. We all have broken relationships, anxiety and although successful have all really suffered from their (religious) ideas about keeping marriages together.

My dad is a selfish and controlling bully. My mum has to actively maintain a cognitive dissonance about her life, if pushed she always chose him, in the most ridiculous circumstances, I think really simply because she is afraid to defy him. Please think properly about how your boys will feel. They're at terrible risk of growing up just like him, disrespecting women and blaming/hating you and calling it love.

Lueji Tue 23-Apr-13 13:06:02

Saying he will be getting married again asap blah blah

That's great. It means he'll get off your back.
Give him the link to POF.

I know it probably feels as if he doesn't care about you, but you know it.

like offred i will never really be able to forgive my parents for putting their own fucked up relationship and issues ahead of us. if i think of it i think of them as incredibly weak, selfish and childish.

please don't think staying together in a case like this is for the sake of the children - it isn't for the real children but for the adult children who are afraid to stand up and be grown ups.

GroundHogDayAgain Tue 23-Apr-13 18:53:59

Hi everyone. Thanks for your messages x

So we went to the office. He sat outside in the reception area and just watched me and om in our office. For like 3hours straight. Didn't move from his seat. It was very awkward. My hands felt so cold and clammy.

We left to go home to get dc1 from school. On the way whilst I was driving, he asked me something about the business. I told him I couldn't answer his question as I didn't want him to have this info. So he went off on one. Started going on with himself. Said soon as we get home, pack your bags and leave.

I went to get dc1 and went to supermarket and when I got home he'd packed almost all of my stuff into bin bags.

It's getting to the point that I'm just mentally drained. His constant txts and and threats and wanting things done his way.

So I'm going to leave tomorrow......eeeek. Scared.

Offred- I'm sorry you have these issue with your parents. Doesn't sound nice. But I know people who are in these kinds of relationships and it's sad. Once the dcs have left, how can you spend the rest of your life with dh/dw alone.... I wonder how your mother gets by day to day like this.

Lueji- what's POF???

Swallowed- that's exactly what I feel like. A 32yr old child. It's hard to think about though going out into the big bad world on your own with small dcs.

Hellsbells- thank you x think I will always blame myself. After all I'm the one that met om. Fell in love with him. I wish I'd sorted things out years ago.

Dh has told me that he's going to finish work early and carry on packing my stuff for me.

Uppatreecuppatea Tue 23-Apr-13 19:11:10

What did OM say? Does he still want to be with you? Does he still want you to go and live in the flat? Where will you go?

Poor you! Your husband sounds like a total dickhead. You need to get out. But what about the children? Will he let you take them too? What will you do tonight?

Big <<<hugs>>>

anastaisia Tue 23-Apr-13 19:29:55

Please don't let him decide what's yours to take and keep everything else. Do look round and add things to the bags that you and the children might need - if you can do that and be gone before he finishes work that would be even better. I'd be surprised if he doesn't kick up some kind of fuss when it comes to you and the kids actually leaving if he's there.

AnyFucker Tue 23-Apr-13 19:31:58

POF..Plenty of Fish. A dating website.

well, your H did say he would replace you quickly enough, so let him get on with that. Less hassle for you.

RatRatRat Tue 23-Apr-13 19:37:41

DON'T DO IT!!

I'm not even familiar with your story but this has alarm bells ringing in my head. You will be utterly miserable with this man and by giving up work you are weakening your position even more - run while you have the chance!

RatRatRat Tue 23-Apr-13 19:40:28

Caught up. Good. Fwiw I think you are making the right decision.

GroundHogDayAgain Tue 23-Apr-13 22:37:01

Uppa- om wants to be with me. He wants to marry me. Right now that's the last thing on my mind though! I'm actually put off for life.
But he's there and supporting me so let's see what happens. As people have suggested I'm going to get counselling organised and have a man free period. I just want to give my dcs all my attention right now.
I'm going to shift all our stuff into the house tomorrow. Was trying to think of all the things I need to do, all I could think of was sorting out sky and broadband. Lol.

AF- POF sounds interesting but dh already has POF's lined up. I don't expect him to stay single but surely he should hang on until kids are settled into a new routine. They going to have enough upheaval as it is.

Rat- thanks x I hope I am doing the right thing.

Anastaisia- he's packed all my stuff into random bin bags. Really p'd off. It's all going to need ironing now. Hes already told me I can take anything I want. But I just need the basics.

I feel like a complete and utter bitch taking dcs away from their dad. I hope they will forgive me.

GroundHogDayAgain Wed 24-Apr-13 04:54:46

Dh woke me up at 3am to 'talk'. Came in to my room and got into my bed. I asked him to leave as it was middle if the night and dcs were sleeping.

He wouldn't leave. Said it was 'our bed' and he wasn't going anywhere.

So I went downstairs to sleep on the sofa.

5mins later he followed me and stood over me souring at me for over an hour. Whilst I hid under the dcs green blanket scared.

I was scared.

He said I should leave the dcs with him as they love him and they want to stay with him (dcs are 2 and 5).

I'm genuinely scared.

GroundHogDayAgain Wed 24-Apr-13 04:55:40

Sorry that should be 'shouting' not 'souring'.

Lueji Wed 24-Apr-13 05:48:10

Been there. sad

I ended up leaving with DS and nothing else with the excuse of going to the supermarket.

He's following the script abusers have.
Get out when he's out, or get someone else to help you.

You should not stay there any longer. He may well turn violent.
Say nothing of your plans, and call WA when you can if you can't leave this morning.

ItsYoniYappy Wed 24-Apr-13 05:56:04

Are you ok OP?

FWIW don't feel bad or that you are taking the kids away from their Dad,it's amazing what Dc pick upon,my DS1 is 13 now and can remember us arguing when he was 3.

It doesn't sound like he thinks you will move, hence throwing things in a bag, gad he sounds like my ex, standing over you, all about control and making you scared. please leave asap.It's hard at first but so much better when you find a routine and everything settles down.

ItsYoniYappy Wed 24-Apr-13 05:57:30

gad = god

Offred Wed 24-Apr-13 06:51:51

Do you think he was being sexually threatening getting into your bed?

Hope you are ok? :/

He may just be saying that about the dc but if it is true that they say they want to stay with him that is not unusual for children of abusers, they often learn contempt for the victim and also to keep the bully onside. It is a reason to remove them from his day to day care. Rationally children should not stay with someone who is sexually, verbally and physically threatening and who plans to "get another wife" straight away.

You will provide the better environment, they come with you. Leave whilst he isn't around.

Offred Wed 24-Apr-13 06:55:44

The rape that I spoke about up thread, that resulted in a child x didn't acknowledge, happened at the end when I was refusing to have sex as he had another gf and locking him out.

Leaving is the most dangerous time. "Our bed" and waking you up in the middle of the night is sinister in the extreme.

Hi op, i hope you survived the rest of the night. You have somewhere to go. Sounds like you and dcs should leave at first opportunity.

Best of luck

holstenlips Wed 24-Apr-13 07:40:32

Just wishing you all the best ..it sounds like a nightmare situation to be in. Get away safely he sounds awful :-(

anastaisia Wed 24-Apr-13 08:47:06

Please think about calling the police if he does anything threatening or refuses to let you leave for work. A record of his abuse should make it harder for him if he does try to use the children against you when you leave.

hairtearing Wed 24-Apr-13 09:06:37

Do you have seperate beds OP? or has he been on the sofa?

Tbh I can possibly imagine it wasn't sexually threatening, and as much as he is an absolute arsehole and you should leave asap, really!
I can't Imagine many men staying out of the marital bed when they weren't the ones to cheat.
The Shouting over you is really scary though, what was he saying?
seems to be escalating, I would leave asap.

GroundHogDayAgain Wed 24-Apr-13 09:20:19

Hi everyone, thanks for your messages x

I'm going to start moving my things out today. I just hope he doesn't try to stop me or do anything silly.

I realised last night that I was actually scared of this guy. And I fully expected him to hit me or throw something at me.

When he got into my bed and refused to move I knew that going forwards, this was what it would be like. The way he wants things and if I don't like it then tough.

We have slept in separate rooms now since dc1. He moved out of our bedroom as dc1 used to wake up for night feeds etc and it would disturb his sleep. He's been in his own room ever since. 5years now. I had dc2 when we thought we'd try to make marriage work. Once I became pregnant he returned to his own room though.

I haven't slept with him since 2010.

I haven't got any family or friends here and feel very alone.

He kept saying I'm ruining the dcs lives. It's all going to reverse on me and I'll pay for what I'm doing etc.

LisaMed Wed 24-Apr-13 09:27:15

Why do you think that him saying something makes it true?

hairtearing Wed 24-Apr-13 10:09:37

Oh right, that is wierd

You just need to focus on leaving.

Offred Wed 24-Apr-13 10:17:46

Wishing you love and strength with your move. Please do call the police if you feel scared or just to be there to help keep things civil while you go.

Also please think of speaking to women's aid. I'm very concerned about your thinking patterns. He seems to be absolute God in your world, like you can only know the world through him and I'm worried you'll struggle and yo-yo without some support. Everyone when they first go to WA thinks they shouldn't be there but you need to tell them the whole truth and trust them to help you. I'm sure they will. You are scared of him, you've probably been avoiding that realisation for many years. I think that is because he is scary.

Offred Wed 24-Apr-13 10:20:13

0808 2000 247
http://www.womensaid.org.uk/default.asp

Don't be put off because you think dv is only if you are being severely beaten black and blue on an hourly basis.

Good luck with your move. Dont leave the children with this man.

I second speaking to WA, and get the police involved if you feel threatened again.

GroundHogDayAgain Wed 24-Apr-13 10:36:48

Offred, thanks so much. Your advice as always is gold.

I'm moving stuff out today. I'm scared but I know I need to do it.

He has humiliated me and said stuff about me to my family and God knows what they must think of me.

I have no doubt that once I've gone he will be quick to spread the word on what a slut I am and how I've been sleeping around. Doesn't matter his many times I try and convince him otherwise he's fixated on it. In fact he's the only guy I have ever slept with. He was my first and only one to date.

Lisamed- when someone tells you constantly day and night that your bringing shame on the family, your letting everyone down, you will be punished for your actions, you start to believe it. This is why I'm still here years later. I'm scared of the repercussions.

Quint- thank you for your support x

I will call WA soon as I get a minute. I've not eaten or slept for two weeks and I just feel very tired now. I look at food and feel physically sick.

I know it gets harder before it gets easier. I just wish I could fast forward 6months down the line. I can't believe I'm so scared.

I have utmost respect for those of you who have escaped and come out the other side.

I have utmost respect for those of you who have escaped and come out the other side.

And you will too, op, then you will have utmost respect for yourself.

All the very best for today

BranchingOut Wed 24-Apr-13 14:25:43

Please remember that most, normal people will not pay any attention whatsoever to what he says.

I think that you would be safest if you left as soon as possible. BUT, please inform the police/WA of your position, so that they can put a flag on your new address.

you have eaten and slept or you'd be dead but no, you won't have eaten or slept well. getting out and into a stable environment will sort that for you and the children who realistically cannot be unphased by all this drama and stress.

hopefully you have gotten out today.

it may sound dramatic but do you know how often men very much like him kill their wife and children? they don't come with a special label tatooed on their forehead saying this one is a proper nutter killer. they behave just like him.

for the sake of the safety of your children get out.

BranchingOut Thu 25-Apr-13 15:35:05

Are you ok, OP?

GroundHogDayAgain Fri 26-Apr-13 10:09:13

Hi x
I'm ok thanks for asking xxx
I've moved out most of my stuff now. Been running between the two houses past two days.

No tv or Internet in new house yet so going to wait till that's sorted. Early next week hopefully.

Dh has gone from practically kicking me out to becoming overbearingly supportive. I'm very suspicious and am keeping him at arms length

He wants to help us settle in now.

But all the while keeps telling me how I shouldn't make any hasty decisions and I should think about what I'm doing

The past week dc1 has been refusing to go to school. I send him crying everyday. I don't know whether it's because of what's been going on. Dh is convinced it's the effecs of recent events. Hes using it against me saying dcs want to stay with both parents and don't want to separate etc etc.

I do feel torn and guilty. But I absolutely cannot live like this for the next 20 or so years.

Dcs are only 2&5.

What are other people's experiences of this??

he's scrabbling for a new strategy - threatening to kick you out (and hoping on you being too scared) has failed so now he has to abandon that and try mr nice guy.

dcs will be fine. it will be the being around such stress and nastiness that is upsetting not the prospect of you separating. also they're too young really to know what it all means and will just respond to the decisions you take and how things are. so when you move into house and things are stable and calm and safe feeling they'll be stable and safe and feel calmer iyswim.

you really can't listen to a word he says as clearly he'll say anything to keep control. just look at how many times his view/tactic has completely changed - that's a man trying to manipulate not someone being honest and principled.

Your DCs will take their lead from you. If it is not present to them as a trauma, then it needn't be one. Much better and easier to do this now while they are young than say when they are early teens.

Keep going op thanks

presented

GroundHogDayAgain Fri 26-Apr-13 11:04:37

Swallowed- thank you. I agree with you. I think he thinks the longer I stay here the more time he has to work on me and wear me down.

I want to get the kids settled in and used to the fact that they will be living with mum but will see dad whenever they want. I have told dh I want him to have regular contact etc. however I meant FaceTime , weekends, his dad off.

He is now saying he wants to see them everyday, but this is just not practical. Especially bearing in mind I'm moving 25miles away. He has also suggested shared custody.

I remember someone said this on another post, if parenting is not 50/50 now why should it be after separation.

He barely saw them previously and recently he's become super dad.

Obv the kids love this new dad and have become clingy with him. He's now using this to convince me that they want to stay with him.

I just need to get out now and start moving forwards. But I know I will never be able to have the clean break that I want.

GroundHogDayAgain Fri 26-Apr-13 11:08:57

Scarlett- that's exactly how I want to do it. Be positive and not melodramatic about it all.

I keep telling dcs we are going to have a nice big garden with swings and slides and I'm going to buy them a rabbit etc. I know this sounds so materialistic but I'm trying to appeal to their age and give them something to get excited about.

I have also been reassuring them that they will see their dad whenever they want and stay with him too.

I hate that it's come to this but it has and I just wish he would let us move on. I know it's tough for him though.

it's just another strategy groundhog - come reality time he won't want to see them every day or have that much responsiblity. it's just about messing with your head. he certainly won't want 50/50 in reality as that's a lot of work.

i wouldn't take anything he says now seriously but wait and see what he's saying after you've moved out and he has accepted it is over.

Offred Fri 26-Apr-13 18:40:36

Of course the children are going to be upset. This isn't a reason to not do it. Sometimes children not being upset by something is a good reason to change it. Children are socialised to their environment as normal, any change is difficult but children are very good at handling it because a large proportion of their lives are about actually integrating changes and the unknown. A child who is not upset at living in the environment you describe your marriage to be has learned that that is 'normal', that is a massive reason to change it, yes they might find it difficult, yes he will poison them (most likely), yes they might be angry with you but you need to deal with that because they need to learn from you that the way their father treats you is not acceptable so that they do not treat their future girlfriends and wives like that.

Offred Fri 26-Apr-13 18:43:43

and yes, i know you are terribly consumed with guilt about developing feelings for someone else, which is less than ideal in the context of your religious beliefs BUT you know and accept this, he thinks he is right. Right to sexually bully you, right to stalk you, alienate you and hit you...

I hope maybe one day you'll be able to truly believe how wrong he is.

ItsYoniYappy Fri 26-Apr-13 18:52:40

I am you a few years on. 3 years in September. My boys were 6 and 10 when I finally left. I think you need counselling via WA is the first thing I will say to keep you strong, I didn't do this and lived a horrid year or even 2 not knowing if I would take X back or not, he seen the DC but spent his time talking to me and ignoring them tbh

My Dc are 13 and 9 now (almost) I will not go into how they were after we split but it wasn't too bad, horrid for first few weeks but then better, my eldest remembers arguments from when he was 3. My youngest started hitting me, he seen his Dad disrepect me for years so he copied him. DS1 thought he would 'hit his girlfriends'.

They have been having counselling since November now and DS2 has stopped hitting me and throwing trainers at my head but is still very naughty and some people (most people who do not know his background) would wonder how/why I put up with him but ignoring him is the only way. Until he calms down.

You are doing the right thing here, it's not easy, you may be tempted to go back as he 'will change' don't fall for it. I wish I had left my X years ago and feel so bloody stupid for staying.

My DC are happy now, we do what we want when we want, no walking around worrying about ex and him coming home and doing what he wanted or putting up with the crap that came afterwards. Stay strong OP. Him standing over you when you were sleeping was creepy

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