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Can somebody help me please - how do I make them understand???

(568 Posts)
Overtiredmum Thu 18-Apr-13 19:41:19

I have been with my DH for 12 years, married for 7 and we have two beautiful children, DS 7 and DD 4. DH is a wonderful dad and a good husband, problem is that for the last year or so I have just drifted apart from him, to the point I am just so unhappy, we have finally separated.

This has only been since last week, and we are slowly starting to tell friends and family. The problem is I feel like I am beign ganged up on, no-one really understands how I feel and that I need to do whats best, which in everyone elses view is patch things up with DH for the sake of the kids! But thats the problem, I have been "patching" for the last year, now I just feel like I am barely surviving day to day.

Since having DS, I have worked evenings. I am fortunate that I have a good job which enabled me to continue my career, but working in the evenings, 5-11pm. DH works days 7am to 4pm, which meant we have never needed additional childcare. But also meant that we had very little time together. I have always tried to do the lions share of stuff at home, maybe a couple of times a week he will need to cook for DC, but apart from that I do everything, and then I go to work. My day starts at 6am and finishes about 12.30am when I crawl into bed.

For the last 4 months or so, everything has just gotten on top of me. Growing up, my parents had an unhappy marriage, splitting up on numerous occasions, my DF being always at work, my DM being the primary care provider. My DM made sacrifices for her own happiness, and they stayed together and are companions for each other in their retirement. But I watched this growing up, and can now see my life heading in the same direction. I have tried to talk to my mum about my feelings, but she is of the view that I should stay put, that I could never do any better, a companion is better than a partner and to "think of the children". I can see having a companion works for her, she is 65 - I am 38?

But that is my problem - I am doing this for my babies. For the last 4-6 months they are picking up on my unhappiness. DS is at school all day, but DD is home for 3 days a week - I spend whole days crying, with her drying my tears, telling me she loves me and it will be OK. Thats surely not healthy for her?? My DS has a nervous thing he does with his eyes, which he cannot seem to stop. I feel like I am being a terrible mum, I need to be happy, surely if I'm happy I will be a better mum?

Together as a family, the DC continually fight and argue, fighting for my attention and love.

So, I have broken DH's heart by asking for a separation. This was last Friday. He stayed at his mums for the weekend but came back every day. Every time he left, I felt a great sense of relief, the DC calmed down, played together great, and we had fun. Thats sounds awful I know. The minute he walks back through the door, I am uncomfortable, it is back to square one with the fighting and arguing. For the first time ever, he took them to the park at the weekend on his own, they loved it.

I am just so unhappy, and I feel I am being pushed into a corner. I have had some really dark days during the last few months, I have been drinking a ridiculous amount of alcohol. This past few days have been so tough, I know he doesn't understand, but I feel relief that he now knows at least, and I haven't even felt the need for a drop of alcohol.

I have made an appointment to see a Relate counsellor next week on my own, although don't really know what to expect. I just want to sit down and talk to someone who doesn't know me, or how great DH is.

I just feel drained. I am continually trying to explain that I am just so unhappy, that it is reflecting on the DC, and that I feel to be the best mum I can, I need to be happy, and if that means being apart from DH, then so be it.

Sorry - long and rambling, but needed to get this out of my head. I feel terrible for breaking the heart of a good man - but I have one life, don't I owe it to myself to make the very best of it for me and my DC? I love my DH, but more as a brother. We just returned from a 10 day holiday together, I had hoped the time together would help - but I felt like I was away with a stranger sad

So opinions please - am I doing the right thing?

StrangeGlue Thu 18-Apr-13 19:52:03

Despite your friends and family's unsupportiveness it really sounds like you think you're doing the right thing and are already feeling better for it. I'm no expert in these things but if you don't think it can improve and you think separate will be better then that sounds the right way to me. It's terrible your friends aren't supporting you but that doesn't make you wrong.

Good luck!

Overtiredmum Thu 18-Apr-13 19:53:26

Sorry I was unclear - my friends are being supportive, its my family that are not.

Overtiredmum Thu 18-Apr-13 19:53:59

I just need my babies to be happy, for that I need to be happy too!

NothingsLeft Thu 18-Apr-13 20:10:05

My parents stayed together for us and are both are miserable, both alcoholics. Don't go there.

Sounds to me, as hard as it isn't the mo, that you are doing the right thing. He may be a nice man and all but if you are arguing and unhappy, it's not a healthy environment for your DC's.

It's sad he is heart broken but the end of relationships is always difficult. I would try not to discuss the ins and outs too much if possible with your family. You don't owe them an explanation. Talk to your friends that are supportive while you you're in this transitional phase. Stay strong smile

Overtiredmum Thu 18-Apr-13 20:22:39

Thank you.

I feel sick at how I have hurt him. I feel sick at how things will turn out, our finances are a total mess, hes staying on the sofa during the week because of my work, then this weekend he's staying in a hotel.

Haven't really thought beyond that, I am trying to keep it amicable for my babies, we are still trying to do some family stuff together, its DD's birthday in a couple of weeks, we will go to Legoland for the day, the four of us. But these arrangements will be confusing for us all in the long term, but financially theres no other option. I am going to try and find day work, which I am gutted about as I love my job, but needs must.

Overtiredmum Thu 18-Apr-13 21:32:38

Bumping

catkin14 Thu 18-Apr-13 21:42:05

Hi, I just wanted to add my support.
Only you know how you feel and how your marriage has been. Its easy for others to criticise but they dont have to live your life.
I have recently left my H of 27 years, to the outside world he was a lovely man, but i have been unhappy for years (he has EA issues). And finally had the guts to leave!
M friends have also been great but my mother says how could i give up the fantastically secure financial life i had..! And not a lot of support from her.
So i understand what you are going through.
Could you have a trial separation and see how you feel?
I too have been seeing a Relate counsellor, she has been wonderful, has helped me makes sense of everything, so i highly recommend.
Good luck x

NothingsLeft Mon 22-Apr-13 12:23:28

How are things op? smile

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 22-Apr-13 12:34:30

I think there comes a point where you have to go with 'don't complain, don't explain'.... and just get on with doing whatever it is you need to do. Give people reasons for what you're doing and they'll find counter-arguments that suit their own agenda. So best to just quietly proceed, don't ask for anything, don't explain anything and ... if they interfere anyway ... tell them to MYOB.

Overtiredmum Mon 22-Apr-13 17:48:49

Well to be honest, things are going from bad to worse. My mum and DH are ganging up on me, pushing me further into the corner, and I feel so trapped.

DH is now telling everyone I am "unwell" but the counsellor will make me better. I had a good talk with my parents today, but walked away feeling like a naughty child that had been told off sad They seem oblivious to my actual feelings. For example:

Me: I'm just so unhappy, have been for a long time.
Mum: No you're not, just going through a rough patch.
Me: But I don't love him enough to spend my life with him.
Mum: Yes you do, you just need to learn how to get those feelings back.
Me: But I don't want to.
Mum: Yes you do!!

At 38, am I not allowed to actually know how I feel?? DM says that I should be grateful for having such a wonderful husband, and that he does so much for me?! I missed that, cos he does nothing for me, I do everything cos I am home during the day, never bothered me before, never resented that, until now, when I get it thrown in my face! The only thing he actually does is look after his own children while I go to work?!

DH is now back at the house, refusing to leave. Saying he feels like a glorified babysitter, only there when I need him to have the kids?! He says I need to "learn" family values?! I work evenings, I'm lucky I can so I could stay home during the day and not have to pay additional childcare. I earn alot more than him, so I could never afford not to work.

I don't know where to turn now. I have my first session with the counsellor tomorrow morning, but they are making me feel like a freak for seeing her sad

OhWhenWillThePlayDateEnd Mon 22-Apr-13 17:53:44

But your children are in school, so you dont have any childcare duties in the day, like he has when he gets home from work?

Overtiredmum Mon 22-Apr-13 17:58:02

No, DD is in pre-school, does 2 days a week, she is home with me the other 3 days.

Yardley Mon 22-Apr-13 17:59:27

Unfortunately I think, from anecdotal evidence and my own similar experience of this, that your Mums is a common parental reaction.I guess they just want for you to be happy and secure (and the same for the grandkids) and they perceive that the most secure you can be is in a marriage etc. That said, its not her life.
If you've told her how unhappy you are, more than once, then now is the time to say very gently that you love her, but you need her support now because the situation is already very hard and you feel guilty, but you dont feel you have another option if you are going to have any chance of a happy life.
Your DH is also now displaying a common reaction-he is understandably hurt and is lashing out and trying to guilt you into changing your mind by implying that your decision indicates that you dont care about your family.I get why he's doing that, he must, (you both must) feel very sad and scared about everything right now...
If the counsellor is any good she will heklp you see that you are in no way a freak....and she might make you think about the decision you are making in ways you havent before, (which may or may not make things clearer for you/vindicate your decision to seperate).However what you must take from it is that although you are going to get alot of flak if you do decide to seperate it isnt anyone elses decision to make.
Be prepared to feel very guilty if you do split up with dh, but weight that up agaisnt your own potential life happiness I suppose.

Sorry you are going through this op

Mondrian Mon 22-Apr-13 18:02:03

Is DH the problem or how life has turned out? Will separation fix life or just provide something different which will feel like a breath of fresh air for now?

Salbertina Mon 22-Apr-13 18:16:15

Good luck, OP, you sound brave and wise. I don't think you will ever "get them to understand" and why should you? Your focus should be you and dc not worrying about what others think.

Overtiredmum Mon 22-Apr-13 18:20:31

No Mondrian, its just how life has turned out. Working evenings has meant we see very little of each other, and over time I have just drifted away. He is a great dad, and i want to focus on that rather than start pointing fingers of who does what, when or not at all?! The DC must remain priority.

I have asked for a trial separation, the last two weekends, he has spent the days with us but stayed elsewhere at night to give me space, and if I'm honest I feel so much better when I am alone with the DC, and they are better behaved and relaxed because they can see I am more at ease. But he has decided that he will not leave the house now, and my DM has told him that he should stay put.

I am taking steps to see if I can transfer to day work with my employers, but not looking possible, so I will put my CV out to see if I can find something.

He is lashing out, we argued before I left for work because I know him and my DM are discussing this between themselves - he is saying things that only my DM would say - if that makes senses?

Overtiredmum Mon 22-Apr-13 18:22:36

Thank you Salbertina. I am neither of those things, I just know I need to be the best mum I can, and I don't feel like I am being that at the moment, but at the same time, I don't need DH to make me feel like a freak?

TumbleWeeds Mon 22-Apr-13 18:27:10

Saying he feels like a glorified babysitter, only there when I need him to have the kids?! He says I need to "learn" family values?! I work evenings, I'm lucky I can so I could stay home during the day and not have to pay additional childcare.

Ok from your Op, I would have said that if you are that unhappy then you need to leave but have you checked that the real issue is tiredness, and/or lack of support from your DH (ie you work evenings and still do all the childcare stuff etc...) etc... as there seem to be so little 'wrong' about your DH.

But now I think you have another major issue. Even if (which doesn't mean you should) you wanted to get back together, you would have to deal with 'Oh I am such a poor little husband who is doing so much for my family'. So he is used as childcare for looking after his dcs in the afternoon but you have a great chance/favour from him to be at home all day ... looking after the dcs hmmhmm
Is that his normal 'attitude' or has he been 'brainwashed' by family who think he has a hard life for putting his dcs in bed every day?

TumbleWeeds Mon 22-Apr-13 18:31:44

xpost.

Does he want you to stay? Is he still in love with you and does he really think that forcing you to stay (by refusing to move out/talking in this way) will help him in any way?

There seem to be so many people involved in your break up....
Perhaps it is time to make it clear that this is an issue between you and him and please could people keep their opinions for themselves?

Still can't quite understand how he is going to see your mum for support.

Overtiredmum Mon 22-Apr-13 18:38:26

Yes Tumble, he wants me to stay. He said that he is not leaving because he needs to be in the house to make me work through it. I know he is hurting, and I have done that to him, but I am going to end up resenting him, and I'd hate to feel like that.

I feel like my voice is on a loop "I am unhappy". I want counselling because I want to work out why I feel like that, and to be honest, I have no-one neutral that I can talk to. He said that if, after a couple of months of counselling, the counsellor says the problem is our marriage and him, he will accept that and walk away. Why will he not accept it from me, but will from a "trained professional"!??

Overtiredmum Mon 22-Apr-13 18:44:08

And answering your first post Tumble, he works hard, I know that, which is why I have never asked any help from him around the home, probably my fault entirely, but I do recognise his need to not come home and start cleaning etc.

He may need to cook their dinner a couple of evenings a week, and then put them in the bath, but they are then in bed by 7pm, then he has the evening to himself.

I don't know whether I would say he has been "brainwashed" but his DM has always said I am lucky to have a husband who lets me go to work for some "pocket money"?!

TumbleWeeds Mon 22-Apr-13 18:55:53

Overtired I am sorry but you are both working and you are actually earning more than him. as a family you wouldn't manage to live wo you working. There is no choice really.

But you seem to think that he shouldn't come back home to start cleaning???
Why??
Why when you both have a similar (and if not more on monetary pov) input in the family finances, should you work your socks off and he shouldn't have to do any work at all ?

Look at your day;
Day from 6.00am till 5.00pm, looking after dcs, HW. A full time job for most people.
The 5.00pm till 11.00pm work (second shift)
And only 6 hours of sleep left if that. Personally I wouldn't have been able to physically cope with that.

And then you are wondering why you have enough, have drifted apart etc...

What I have notice too is that he doesn't seem to think there is any issue with him. That he isn't prepare to make any effort, just reminding you how lucky you are to work 19 hours a day hmm and witing for you to get back to your sense....
If he really wanted you back and really wanted to save your marriage, a decent man would have asked what he could do to improve things, would have asked if you needed a bit of space to think, would have proposed to have the dcs for some of the weekend etc... not waited until a 'professional' is saying its the marriage to then given up because it would mean he had to make some effort?

Sorry I might have got the wrong end of the stick but this is how it reads to me.

pigsDOfly Mon 22-Apr-13 18:58:56

I think you need to stop trying to explain to your DM why you want to separate and how you're feeling. Of course she's going to be unhappy that you want to end what she sees as a safe, secure situation. She has her view of your marriage but her view is not relevant. It's none of her business whether you choose to stay or leave your marriage and she's treating you like a child by telling how you are/should be feeling.

You need to do what feels right for you and your DC OP.

Please don't be made to feel guilty for wanting to be happy.

MyChildDoesntNeedSleep Mon 22-Apr-13 19:06:53

I am just wondering why we have this thing called marriage, where we vow to stay with someone until death do us part when in reality it means jack-shit.

I'm not getting at you personally, OP, but I'm just really wondering why we have this construct which in reality means nothing. All it means is that if you split up, the finances are infinitely more complicated.

Prozacbear Mon 22-Apr-13 19:09:26

Agree with the posters above so little to add! Apart from: stick to your guns.

Ex-DP and I broke up to much uproar and I am now MUCH happier with current DP. Oddly the same friends/family who were asking us to 'make it work' now comment on how much happier we both are! Listening to them would be a bad idea right now.

Particularly agree with Tumbleweeds - look at all you do, and all you get is him telling you you're lucky? Bollocks to that. Go, be happy, find someone who realises that nobody wants to come home and clean but it's what you do when you're part of a family and contributing like a grown-up.

Overtiredmum Mon 22-Apr-13 19:15:35

Tumble, I think I've just always done it. He has a physical job, I have a desk job, so I have always thought he needs to rest of an evening? The money side has never been an issue, its not something I would ever say "well I earn more than you...."

But yes, I do see your point. Sometimes I get so exhausted to the point I feel like a zombie, and he probably feels neglected?! He has started to blame my job on this sitation too, but trying to reverse how he has been depressed cos he never gets to see me, how there are times he could have had counselling because of the loneliness, but he just put up with his own feelings for the sake of our family? That may well be true, but I don't know. He never seemed to mind on pay day, or when he was seeking company with football and through the bottom on a beer can.

He has asked if he can improve things - these being either to buy a bigger house, which he knows we cannot afford, or to have a baby??

I am scared of what my future holds, but I don't know how much of this I can take x

Overtiredmum Mon 22-Apr-13 19:21:46

Thanks Prozacbear! This isn't about me wanting someone else though, this is about me wanting the best for my DC, and if I'm unhappy, then they aren't getting the best of me?

I will never shut DH out, I am happy for joint custody, no matter how hard it will be on us, the DC have to come first. But to see how they react to how I am when DH isn't there, is a stark contrast to how they are when we are all together.

DH and DM are hoping I see divine inspiration tomorrow - I'm trying to go with an open mind, but its so hard when they are supporting each other and not me.

I just feel so trapped.

SissySpacekAteMyHamster Mon 22-Apr-13 19:33:03

Have you told him that if he doesn't give you some space you will end up resenting him?

Overtiredmum Mon 22-Apr-13 19:38:22

No Sissy I haven't, I should thought I guess?

Overtiredmum Mon 22-Apr-13 19:40:59

When I ask for space, he just says its his house too, and that he needs to be there to make me work it out

MrsBombastic Mon 22-Apr-13 19:45:10

I think you are doing the right thing. If you are happy your children will be.

They are young and they will be ok, so will you.

I'm glad your friends are being supportive, your family need a kick up the backside, their job is to support you regardless of their own opinions and your parents, especially your mum should know better from you've said... point this out.

I think you are incredibly brave. I'm struggling too for similar reasons, if my DH left I think I would be sad but I'm starting to think I need to be on my own. Sadly, I'm bound by financial issues.

<here's a hand to hold> sad

Overtiredmum Mon 22-Apr-13 19:51:46

My DM just keeps saying "if you let him go, someone will come along and snap him up, how will you feel then?" I just said that I hope that someone makes him happy, to which she just laughed and said I will never do any better sad That may be the case, who knows, but isn't it my right to find out?

I need to build a happy home for the DCs, thats the most important thing x

MrsB, I don't think I'm being brave, we have financial issues as well, but I am just trying to take one day at a time. I'm following my head and my heart for the sake of the DC x

Salbertina Mon 22-Apr-13 19:55:01

Your dm - to say the least -undermining even a little toxic in what she says. A little distance from her may help also?

Overtiredmum Mon 22-Apr-13 20:02:31

She is actually speaking to DH more than me?!

Salbertina Mon 22-Apr-13 20:05:08

Hmm.. Rather disloyal, v undermining and extremely odd on the face of it. How is your relationship normally with her?

mrsmindcontrol Mon 22-Apr-13 20:11:08

Your situation sounds exactly like mine 2 years ago when my exH and I separated. He is a good man, a great dad etc but just the wrong man for me. I had become a shell and so very very unhappy trying to make myself love him.
My parents reaction was horrific. I've posted about it before. They are in exactly the same position you describe your parents in. I'd like to say they've come round in 2 years, but they haven't. We just don't talk about it anymore & I've distanced myself from them.

Please believe that you are doing what is right for you & your babies and with time people will see this & learn to respect your position if not understand it.

Much love x

wispa31 Mon 22-Apr-13 20:25:08

hiya. sorry you are having a hard time though ive no experience of what you are going through. but i do understand what its like to have your mum not supporting you and how that makes you feel.
you have to do what you feel is best for your family so if that means you will be happier if you separated then do it. no offence but your h sounds like a bit of a knob in the way he is behaving. as for your mum, maybe its best to not to discuss it with her if she cant be supportive, end of day, wether she 'approves' or agrees or not is irrelevant, she should be there for you no matter what.
since ive been pregnant ive had to stand up to my mum as she can be very opinionated and is deadly for holding grudges/ getting all 'me me me' if she doesnt like something ive done or decided. think its starting to sink in that now that i am about to have my own family my decisions will be whats best for my family and not whats going to suit/please everybody else and no way will i ever put myself out just because someone else (mother dear) wont like it.
sorry ive just rambled on and on.

Overtiredmum Mon 22-Apr-13 20:27:12

Salbertina, we have an OK relationship, probably became closer after having the DC, but I am probably closer to my DF, who hasn't actually said anything about the whole situation at all. I think he would like to, but I never get to see him alone.

MrsMindControl - that is exactly how I feel, he is a good man, but I have drifted so far apart, and I am making myself unhappy trying to love him. I just feel so selfish for feeling this way.

Overtiredmum Mon 22-Apr-13 20:36:26

No, thank you Wispa, I appreciate any opinions and comments on here, I'm far from perfect by any means!

I think its just because my DM has made do, she feels I should do the same. But I also think she is being a little hypocritical - I can't tell you the amount of times my parents split up when I was young! And it was because she was unhappy and got no support from my DF!

Its like shes saying "Do as I say, not as I did"?

wordyBird Mon 22-Apr-13 20:44:04

It sounds as if you have two rather controlling people in your life: your mum, and your husband.

Neither of them are acknowledging your feelings, and both seem to be, well… bullying you into accepting their view of the situation.

You say you've 'broken your husband's heart' by asking for a separation. But if you've been crying so much your young daughter has been trying to support you, things must have very been bad for YOU. Your heart was broken some time ago, it seems.

If your husband is a good husband, really, he ought to be distraught that you have been so upset. But it seems that he's just denying there is a problem, saying you are unwell (!), refusing to leave your home - and telling you that you need to learn family values. As if he is the one to teach them to you! And to say he is going to stay to make you work through it ... I'm speechless.

That is extremely controlling , and highly disrespectful.

I hope you get on well at your counselling appointment. Good for you for insisting on it.

Salbertina Mon 22-Apr-13 20:44:32

So, looked at kindly, your dm wants her dd to avoid her own mistakes..understandable but it sounds a little as if she's projecting her issues/truths on to you at a vulnerable moment. Which is most unfair.

Overtiredmum Mon 22-Apr-13 20:52:08

He is texting me as I sit here at work. Tonight he is apologising for "being so ugly" and that he is trying to save our marriage. Last night he was slagging me off, saying I was controlling him and that I am just bored and looking for excitement????

I am feeling bullied, I argued with him tonight because I said I am 38, and yet no-one wants to know how I feel, they just want to tell me how I feel?! He had nothing to say to that.

I was hoping to find some answers tomorrow, but am worried I may go a little guarded now, he's making me feel like a freak! Do I tell the counsellor that to start with? I don't know what to expect

mrsmindcontrol Mon 22-Apr-13 21:17:22

You're not a freak. Don't let him make you feel like that. He's hurt & he's lashing out. He's trying to guilt trip you into staying together.
It won't be easy but you have done the difficult bit by telling him how you feel. If your situation IS as much like mine as it seems, I promise you that you ARE doing the right thing.
I felt horribly guilty about how sad I was making my exH feel but I definitely know that he's happier now, as am I. And, most importantly, as are my (our) beautiful baby boys.

TumbleWeeds Mon 22-Apr-13 21:20:37

Oh don't worry about the counsellor. Tell him/her how you feel. How your Dh makes you feel like a freak, t you feel bullied into something you don't want.
Just say that and take it from there.

A good counsellor will NEVER make you feel like a freak or tell you you are stupid or anything like this. Their job is to ask questions so that you can reflect on what is going on and get a better picture of the reality. This might mean the importance of the influence of your mother on your own life, how your partner behaviour affects your happiness, or the impact of your own beliefs (eg you are the one responsible for your DH happiness) onto your own reactions.
Don't expect quick answers with counselling. It is a slow process a bit like unpeeling an onion.
And the first session is more likely to be around organization, aim of the counselling, boundaries etc...

Overtiredmum Mon 22-Apr-13 21:34:59

Well, now he has just told me that he is looking for somewhere to rent but that I am on my own. I asked if he will still help with the kids of an evening until I get my work sorted out, and he said no. The kids can live with him until I get sorted?!! sad

What do I do? If I can't work, I have no money coming in and no roof for my kids, financially I will be destroyed

CinnabarRed Mon 22-Apr-13 21:36:53

I'm sorry if this is out of line, but I have to say - I'm struggling to understand too.

You are exhausted, clearly, and something has to give without a doubt. The part I don't get is why is has to be your relationship that goes. (Assuming that your DH is indeed at heart a good, kind man and that you do still love him. If either of those things is wrong then ignore everything else that follows.)

In 6 months your DD will start school. You can revert to do your 6 hours per day of paid employment during 'normal' working hours. You could get a cleaner to take up some of the slack of housework. Or your DH could do more of it.... You can spend your evenings together as a couple and grow back together again.

Look, I know nothing of you other than what you've posted. I just want you to be absolutely sure that your marriage is really and truly over, rather than (as your unhelpful mother has said) in a bad patch, before you separate permanently. Don't discount the possibility just because it's your mother who raises it!

SGB always says, rightly, that no-one has to stay in a relationship nor justify ending it - of course she's right - and do tell me to bog off if I'm not helping.

CinnabarRed Mon 22-Apr-13 21:39:52

BTW - I would feel enormously resentful of a man who worked for, what, 8 hours per day while I worked for 18.

CinnabarRed Mon 22-Apr-13 21:44:52

X-post.

The financials will get sorted. Get legal advice. If the DC are resident with you then he will have to contribute to their upkeep. If they are resident with him then you will be able to work office hours rather than of an evening (especially so when your youngest starts school). Either way, you'll survive. Your standard of living will reduce - if nothing else because your combined income will need to support two homes rather than one - but that may well be a price worth paying.

thecatfromjapan Mon 22-Apr-13 21:53:24

i find it odd that you have pottered along so far together without seeming to have done any fighting/arguing/discussing of what seems to be quite a huge disparity in workload between the two of you.

I wonder if, when you see the counsellor, you're going to think your husband was such a lovely, kind, equitable, caring husband after all.

It's very easy to cry tears when the household serf wants to leave.

Your mother? Why is she so keen to see her daughter unhappy? She sounds, frankly, like one of those mothers who is all window-dressing and no real love or care underneath. Lots of mouth stuff about how you need to sacrifice for the children, no real thought or care going on about what might be best for her child - you.

All a bit abstract, really. What you might suspect she really wants is for you to go back to your husband, shut up about your unhappiness, so that she can go on playing the pretend role of happy granny.

I deeply mistrust people like this.

I also think it is bizarre that you have these two people, who are, or were, so close to you, who both play the same game: ignoring your feelings - even when you try and articulate them - and insist you play the role they want from you. I think that's why I wonder if, actually, you are mor unhappy in your marriage than you think, but are used to not listening to your own feelings, and instead let other people tell you how you should be feeling.

thecatfromjapan Mon 22-Apr-13 21:57:00

By the way, to return to your OP:

The short answer to your question is that, no, there is nothing you can do. You have used language - there is no secret, magic sequence of words you can use. In fact, they understand perfectly. They are just chooding to ignore what you are saying and insisting on an alternative reality.

It's about power, not comprehension.

Overtiredmum Mon 22-Apr-13 21:59:15

Well I need to go home now, he won't let me in, guess I have to call the police?

CinnabarRed Mon 22-Apr-13 22:05:53

Yes, I think so. I'm not liking the way he's treating you now - not the hallmarks of a loving, lovable person.

MooncupGoddess Mon 22-Apr-13 22:09:18

Tell him that if he doesn't let you in you'll call the police. Then make good on your threat.

Really sorry you're going through this, OP.

ChippingInLovesSpring Mon 22-Apr-13 22:16:57

<Hug>

You are doing what is right for you and thus right for the children. Neither your H nor your Mum need to 'understand' - they just need to accept. Of course it would be lovely if they did understand, but there's no point in turning yourself inside out trying to make them.

Your H is being an arse and I actually suspect if you wrote a lot more about him it would become apparent that he's been an arse for a long time! Saying you are 'ill', 'don't know your own mind', that he wont do what he can to make life run smoothly for the children etc. He's not the Prince you are making him out to be/that you feel he is.... and that is why you are unhappy sad

Your Mum is toxic, sorry - but she is sad She is not listening to you and so all you can do is either ignore her or cut her out of your life. I would be having very firm words with her about what is required of her if she wished to stay part of my life (and her grandchildrens).

Stay strong - you are doing the right thing.
x

ChippingInLovesSpring Mon 22-Apr-13 22:19:12

Fucking idiot. Definitely call the police and if he wants to play stupid fucking games then It Is Over - there is no going back from this, none. Ask them if they can remove him from the house and ask for a 'whatever-they're-calling-it-now' restraining order.... GIT.

whethergirl Mon 22-Apr-13 22:19:25

Doesn't he realise he is just making things worse?
I think he is showing his true colours tbh.

OP you are doing the right thing - you know you are, it feels right. The transgression won't be easy, but you'll be happier in the future.

On a practical point of view, could you not carry on working evenings and get a childminder?

ChippingInLovesSpring Mon 22-Apr-13 22:20:59

Oh and for what it's worth - he is NOT a good Dad. A good Dad does NOT do this to their mother & make the situation far worse for them. A good Dad would not have let you run yourself ragged while he sat back & watched either...

Ditch the rose coloured glasses - he is falling short of the mark as a DH and as a Dad sad

DaffodilAdams Mon 22-Apr-13 22:23:08

OvertiredMum, several things about this man stand out to me.

-The huge disparity in workload and the fact that he has been happy to let you do way more than your fair share.

-Your children are 7 & 4 and last week was the first time he took them to the park.

-He started calling you "unwell" on splitting up.

-He is not taking any responsibility for the relationship. It is all on your shoulders.

-He is blackmailing you with regards the children and your job.

-He has locked you out of the house.

None of these are signs of a nice person, husband or particularly good father. Your mother isn't sounding great either.

I hope you do ring the police and get back in the house tonight. Sending a hug for you. You are going through shit.

I wonder if the reason your mother is so unsupportive of you is because of how her own marriage went? By the sound of it they also drifted apart, but she stayed with him regardless (different generation, different expectations). You don't want to do that, and it seems to me that she is taking your decision to split with your husband almost as a criticism of her decision all those years ago. This could explain her desire that you don't split up - sort of validates her decision/life since then, IYSWIM. She's totally in the wrong though. Your life, your decision. The kindest interpretation I can put on her behaviour is that it frightens her and highlights what she could have/should have done with her own life, so she's doing the equivalent of putting her fingers in her ears and going 'la-la-la'.

I also wonder if she has set you a very bad example of married life and expectations too. Look at some of the things you have said -
- " I have always tried to do the lions share of stuff at home, maybe a couple of times a week he will need to cook for DC, but apart from that I do everything"
- " The only thing he actually does is look after his own children while I go to work?!"
- "He has a physical job, I have a desk job, so I have always thought he needs to rest of an evening?"
No wonder you're so exhausted! You've been living this way for SEVEN YEARS - I wouldn't have lasted one. How can your husband not see that this has worked you into the ground? How could he not have taken some of the weight from your shoulders? How could he not have PULLED HIS WEIGHT?

Suffice to say, I really don't consider him to be a good husband or a good man. He has used you like a skivvy. And now he has the sheer gall to say "he feels like a glorified babysitter, only there when I need him to have the kids?!" Well, isn't that how he has treated you for seven years?

He is not 'lashing out' because you have 'broken his heart'. He is showing his true colours and trying to bully you back into being his domestic servant. If he gave a damn he'd be trying to make you feel loved and valued. He isn't doing that, is he.

Go to your counselling session tomorrow and do not be guarded. Tell them everything.

wordyBird Mon 22-Apr-13 23:50:33

Hope you were able to get home safely, Overtired.
Take care, and good luck tomorrow.

Seabright Tue 23-Apr-13 07:20:57

Hope you got into the house safely. Good luck with the counsellor

bleedingheart Tue 23-Apr-13 09:05:41

I hope you got in okay, OTM. I honestly don't know how you have sustained this for so long.
When I read the OP I did think maybe you are exhausted and addressing the wrong problem but the more I read the more your H sounds like a controlling bully.
People want affirmation of their own choices so don't always react with your best interests.

TumbleWeeds Tue 23-Apr-13 09:10:47

Hi OP how ate you doing today? Did you need to call the police in the end so you can go back in your own house?

Hope you are OK (((hugs)))

YoniBottsBumgina Tue 23-Apr-13 09:14:15

I agree you're doing the right thing. J because the relationship looks good "on paper" doesn't mean a thing if you don't feel it.

Wrt your job, could you maybe get an evening nanny or an au pair if you have a second bedroom?

Overtiredmum Tue 23-Apr-13 09:48:28

Thank you everyone for your responses and wishes.

Thankfully, it wasn't necessary to call the Police, but I am unhappy with the position he put me in.

Today, he has decided that he will "help" with the DC until I am able to get my job sorted and working days. It will probably mean switching employers, but since I'm having a fresh start, I may as well go the whole hog!

WRT my mum, I have realised that I need to stop discussing the situation with her. I spoke to her last night to discuss the point that H was refusing the help with the DC so I could work, her response was "Well if you need him, you'd best give him a glimmer of hope!" They were her literal words! She was even condoning his response "Well I won't talk to him, theres nothing I can say if hes had enough".

His attitiude is changing several times a day, and I am fearful of what he will come out with next. I have told him to just do what is best for him now, I got up this mornning to him asking if he could sleep in our bed with me tonight?!

I am still fearful to see the counsellor today, hes making me feel like a freak by saying I am unwell. I will just go, be honest and see how it goes. Appointment is at 11.30am.

I know he loves his DC but I will not have him using them to get back at me.

I've been on here for years and have seen how the support of others has helped change peoples lives for the better and I am really feeling your support, so please keep talking to me.

BestestBrownies Tue 23-Apr-13 10:11:05

Hi Overtiredmum

You are doing the right thing. You do not exist to prioritise other adults happiness over your own. Stick to your guns. It will be tough for the next few weeks, but you are a strong, capable and resourceful woman. You can do it. In six months time, you'll be kicking yourself for not having done this years ago.

I am almost six months down the line from leaving my husband (no DC to consider though). I had similar reactions from my friends and family because they couldn't understand why I would want to leave such a 'lovely' man. Fortunately, they supported me even if they disagreed with my decision (eventually, after much explaining on my part as to the reasons I was so unhappy).

Get it all out in the counselling session today. You will feel so much better for it.

fubbsy Tue 23-Apr-13 11:07:37

Your h seems to be showing his true colours now. sad Him telling you that you are unwell is classic controlling, manipulative behaviour. Threatening to lock you out of the house? Bullying, pure and simple.

My mother was a lot like yours, by the sound of it. She had no interest in my feelings (or anyone else's really) and was very dismissive of them. I ended up adopting a similar strategy to yours. I would not talk to her about my feelings or anything personal.

Good luck with the counselling. It is scary, I was scared when I went. The process probably won't be easy, but I hope you will find it helpful.

TumbleWeeds Tue 23-Apr-13 11:19:10

Overtired,

Can I say again.

You are NOT unwell!!

You have just decided that you had enough and want to move out of a relationship and that doesn't make you 'unwell'. Actually, from what you are saying, I would say you are quite sane, very strong and have your head well on your shoulders!

Don't listen to your H. He seems to have a very strange way of looking at things that are all about him. Look at what he is saying. So you will need him to look after the dcs during the evening. And what about him? Does he not need you to look after the dcs during the day too?
He says he will have to take the dcs with him if you don't have a day time job so he can help you??? Do you really think he will look after 2 young dc on his own wo you preparing everything etc? because from what you are saying he won't tbh.
What he is doing is blowing hot and cold to destabilize you. He is still putting you down, saying you are 'clearly unwell' if you want to move out of the marriage. How many other things is he saying to put you down again?

And BTW, do NOT let him into your bed again. You are separating, yes he is still in the house atm. But you don't have to share your bed with him.

bleedingheart Tue 23-Apr-13 11:30:05

He wants to put you off seeing the counsellor because he knows it wil provide the outside validation of your feelings that he and your mother are conspiring to deny you

"I am still fearful to see the counsellor today, hes making me feel like a freak by saying I am unwell. I will just go, be honest and see how it goes. Appointment is at 11.30am."
Putting you off seeing a counsellor is EXACTLY what his 'unwell' drip-drip-drip is aiming to achieve. He doesn't want anything to change - he likes things as they are, with you ground down with exhaustion and him doing sweet fuck all angry.

As for your mother -she's another one who doesn't want change, because you staying in a bad marriage validates her decision to stay in hers. She needs to fuck off and realise it's not all about her, the selfish bag. God, you really are surrounded by selfish people! You deserve better.

I hope your first counselling session is going well.

quietlysuggests Tue 23-Apr-13 12:45:39

You are exhausted
You are crying all the time
You are drinking too much

Now is not the time to make huge decisions like leaving your marriage.
Please go to your GP and discuss your feelings.
Can you take a couple of weeks off work, sick leave, and rest up?
Can you straight away change your work hours to normal hours?
Whats the point of being proud that you dont need childcare if your children are sitting watching away your tears?
Put children into creche.
Work during the day, come home at the same time as your DH and together both of you can do the cleaning/ cooking/ bed-time work.
Then every evening you are free from 8pm
Imagine that - house tidy children asleep, no work to be done from 8 pm every evening?
A 10 day holiday is nowhere near as healthy as a couple of weeks of knowing that every evening you can rest, watch tv, go for a walk, talk to your DH, talk about DH etc

I think you are exhausted.

fubbsy Tue 23-Apr-13 13:06:09

Ah quietly now you are sounding like my mother. When I told her that I was not happy, she would say that I was over-tired.

LadyInDisguise Tue 23-Apr-13 14:33:50

quitely what about the issue is the other way around?

That the OP feels absolutely crap, exhausted etc.. because of her DH behaviour.
Do you think that leaving it for longer 'whilst recovering' will help? Do you think she will even have the chance of actually getting better?
Because, tbh, her H doesn't seem in any way ready to support her at all.

I really don't think this would be the right thing to do for the OP and I am normally the last one to say 'LTB' but would rather go for the 'try and work it out first'. Not in that case though.

LadyInDisguise Tue 23-Apr-13 14:36:26

The OP's H will NOT help do the cleaning/cooking etc.. He is coming back home from a hard day at work and he is doing a physical job. So clearly he can not possibly help.
Working during the day would mean less money for the family and still the same amount for work for the OP.

CinnabarRed Tue 23-Apr-13 16:09:04

The OP's H will NOT help do the cleaning/cooking etc.. He is coming back home from a hard day at work and he is doing a physical job

Except he is coming home to help because he's in sole charge of the children for tea, bath and bedtime. (I know that in one of my previous posts I said he was working 8 hours while the OP was doing 18, but I was only factoring in his hours actually in his paid employment. When you do the maths on the same basis as the OP, he's doing at around 14 hours from waking to getting the DCs to bed. Still not as much as the OP, which needs to be rebalanced, but not as unequal as it first seemed.)

Look, I really don't like the way that the OP's DH has treated her recently, particularly over the past 24 hours. What I genuinely can't tell is whether he's hurting and lashing out, or is showing his true colours as a vile abuser. But, like quietly, I'm uncomfortable advising her to LTB when she is definitely exhausted and possibly depressed.

OP, I'm really glad that you're speaking to a counsellor. You need someone in real life who can help you understand whether your DH is fundamentally decent or not. (And who isn't Your Mother.)

Questioning Tue 23-Apr-13 16:54:38

I don't think he will because he has never done it. The OP has done all the washing, cleaning and cooking, not him. What he has done is to look after the dcs for a few hours and put them in bed. A babysitter has done for me before.

Ok that's better than nothing at all but when this guy is also saying that she is lucky that he is doing so much... I can't see him raising to the challenge tbh.

And beside, she has already decided to leave the marriage. What she needs is support in doing what she thinks is best for her when her H is very slowly trying to drag her down with his comments (such as 'you are unwell') so much so she is worried about going to see a counsellor on her own....

Overtiredmum Tue 23-Apr-13 17:27:45

Thank you again everyone, I really do appreciate people's honest opinions and support. Not sure I'll be able to answer everyones questions, but I'll try grin

The counsellor this morning was enlightening. I spent most of the hour in tears, but I found that I didn't recognise the person I was talking about, and that was me.

She said that I am very obviously unhappy, and that without any real support on the outside world, it will make things so much worse. She said I am looking for justification, not to seperate, but to be happy, and that I deserve more from myself and definitely for my children.

As for DM, she thinks that maybe she is feeling guilty for her past decisions, but she is displaying that in the wrong way. She does think it best I keep her at arms length, ultimately, the counsellor doesn't think she will be of much support to me, and I feel I should just let her been a grandmother to the DC.

For the first time I don't feel judged, bullied and told how I should feel. I actually walked out of the office starving hungry, I've hardly eaten anything for the last week.

I wish I had seen a counsellor before. At this stage I don't have the answers, but I can see the fog clearing and I feel more at ease.

wordyBird Tue 23-Apr-13 17:36:18

For the first time I don't feel judged, bullied and told how I should feel.
- that's great, Overtired. I'm so glad you made it to your appointment.

You definitely do deserve more; you will gradually feel better as that fog clears. flowers

Overtiredmum Tue 23-Apr-13 17:42:46

She also said I seem to be accepting the whole blame, and if I am to ever move on, I need to accept that it takes two for a marriage not to work, for whatever reason. I need to stop blaming myself, then maybe I will feel more deserving, at the moment I just feel selfish.

CinnabarRed Tue 23-Apr-13 17:45:44

Great news that you clicked with your counsellor - I hope your sessions continue to bring you clarity and peace.

fubbsy Tue 23-Apr-13 17:54:20

Glad you found the counselling helpful overtired and you are feeling more at ease. smile

SissySpacekAteMyHamster Tue 23-Apr-13 18:08:24

Oh that is great to hear, the counsellor is obviously on your wavelength, and hopefully you can open up to her and work through your feelings.

Fab that you have a third party involved who doesn't judge you and who you feel comfortable with.

Agree with the advice to keep your mum as the grandparent. Keep her out of the loop, she is not on your side!

Overtiredmum Tue 23-Apr-13 18:42:36

I have a long way to go, H is still not understanding. I've told him we are have no future, but we need to be united for the DC, and hes just told me that theres no point me having the counselling then if I know what I want sad

wordyBird Tue 23-Apr-13 19:05:44

I think he is deliberately not understanding...

There is every point in having counselling because it's what YOU want, and your voice needs to be heard. It's not just about the marriage: it's about you, your needs, your feelings, and your life. You need somewhere to speak, and be heard, and so form a path forward.

Fleecyslippers Tue 23-Apr-13 19:09:54

I actually think that you need to go to counselling WITH your husband. I'm really sorry but I still don't see enough issues and attempts to 'fix' those issues for you to be able to justify leaving your marriage. In the space of a few pages your husband has been turned into a manipulative bully by MN. Is he REALLY that monster ? Or is he a decent, kind, hard working man who has, like many other people before him, been side tracked by the pressures of a young family, a mortgage and the bills to pay. Yes you sound exhausted and its no wonder but being a lone parent is not a path I chose lightly. I worry about the things that your counsellor has said to you tbh. My experience of goid counsellors is that they actually make very few assertions or assumptions themselves and this one sounds as if she hasan awful lot to say.
I don't mean to sound harsh but I think you are throwing your marriage away too easily and it's no wonder that your husband is hurting so badly. I think that there are loads of practical things that you need to think about addressing regarding finances and childcare etc which could help make the grind seem less daunting.

Overtiredmum Tue 23-Apr-13 19:10:37

He keeps telling me I have to fight to save us, I have no fight sad

Overtiredmum Tue 23-Apr-13 19:12:04

I appreciate your opinion Fleecy, but if it is making me unhappy trying to love him?

Questioning Tue 23-Apr-13 19:24:47

Fleecy, this from the OP's counsellor:

She also said I seem to be accepting the whole blame, and if I am to ever move on, I need to accept that it takes two for a marriage not to work, for whatever reason.

Her H has not shown in any way at all yet that he is willing to make some effort too. He hasn't asked her what he could do, what was making her unhappy. He hasn't proposed her to change. No he has just been blaming her again for the failure of his marriage.
It takes two to tango. If eh isn't ready to amkle some effort, the OP can try as much as she wants, it won't happen.
Actually she has tried on her own for the last year or so. It hasn't worked.

I have no doubt that her H has some default and some bad points even if she hasn't talked about it. Perhaps trust the OP that she knows her situation well and her H well enough to know it's too late for 'working on her marriage'?

Lostwithoutacompass Tue 23-Apr-13 19:26:42

Hello overtired, my marriage is coming to an end and although not quite as extreme as your mum, mine took months to become more supportive and understanding but from her perspective I think she was panicking at the thought of me being a single mum with three young children, how I would cope etc.. My dc was in total denial and I think after 10 months of me first bringing it up we are just about starting to be on the same page. Not that its a comparison but just to empathise that it's a long, difficult and lonely journey when you are the one who isn't happy anymore.

I didn't want to carry on following your post without telling you that you have my support and I think you are being really brave. I went for one session of counselling and was relieved when she told me it was ok to want to be alone. I was very nervous before going, cried lots through it and actually cried lots for the next few days. I felt emotionally floored but i think it was the relief of talking about it and not having to justify myself about how I feel. Keep on eating and looking after yourself. My only advice is listen to yourself, take your time but believe in yourself and your gut instinct.

Anyway, hang in there my lovely, there will be better times ahead. x

cjel Tue 23-Apr-13 19:35:22

OP, whilest I don't think what you h and dm are saying is right I wonder if its what they see,? You are drinking crying and exhausted all the time - you may not be well. It could very well be that it is your marriage that has caused it . I'm glad that you got on with counsellor and hope you can explore more as you go on. I would also urge you to go to your GP they may advise something as well. I'm not saying that your problem is 'just'tiredness and that a good nights sleep and you will be fine, but It sounds like your H leaving may not cure all your problems - you will still be shattered and get not enough sleep. I also find his behaviour this week really nasty and unhelpful. You have at last got him to see you are seriously unhappy and expects you to sort yourself out. One of your first priorities sounds like it could be to get him out of the house so you have real space not just weekend evenings.

JustinBsMum Tue 23-Apr-13 21:11:04

Growing up, my parents had an unhappy marriage, splitting up on numerous occasions, my DF being always at work, my DM being the primary care provider. My DM made sacrifices for her own happiness

I think this is part of your problem, growing up with a messy family life will leave its scars. Perhaps you would have sorted out the problems with DH before now if you had had a more secure childhood, perhaps you wouldn't have worked yourself into exhaustion.

If you speak to a solicitor so that you know where you stand you will be able to make your own decisions rather than being swayed or confused by DH and DM, so that could be your next move.

NotaDisneyMum Tue 23-Apr-13 21:26:36

overtired You will get through this thanks

Your DH is going through the change curve - I'm sure your counsellor can explain it to you - his emotions will follow a pattern which includes denial, depression and anger before moving on to experimentation and acceptance. Unfortunately, it can take a while for that journey to be completed.

As for your DM- you'll need to detach. My DM wouldn't stop involving herself in the issues between ex and myself when we were separating (initiated by me) - he turned to her for support and she was only to willing to give it at my expense.
She said some very hurtful things; based partly on the fact that she accepted and believed my ex's presentation of the facts without question. I've had no contact with my DParents for over three years now; they are in regular contact with DD via ex and he spent part of his honeymoon with them last year !

BedHanger Tue 23-Apr-13 21:56:34

I cannot believe how many people on this thread are responding to a woman incredibly distressed by the fact that no one in her life is listening to her when she says she wants to end her marriage...

by telling her that she doesn't know what she's thinking and she doesn't really want to end it.

Bizarre.

CinnabarRed Tue 23-Apr-13 22:22:46

That's not fair. Several of us have said that making important, life-changing decisions at a time when you're incredibly disstressed is not necessarily the most sensible thing to do. I for one would feel terrible if I advocated LTB and then the OP posted an update 6 months later saying that it turned out she'd been in the depths of depression and bitterly regretted the loss of her marriage. I'm normally one of the first to advocate LingTB, but what if she is having a nervous breakdown, say?

DaffodilAdams Wed 24-Apr-13 04:13:51

Well if Overtiredmum is having a break down then her husband is appearing quite happy to let that happen without offering any support and in fact appears more than happy to add to her stress levels. I mean really. Making someone change their job because he doesn't want to look after his own children? Can you imagine if the OP was making him do that? Or can you even imagine that would be a realistic option? Would you want to be with someone who cares so little about you?

These are not the actions of someone who is worried about their partner or who wants to save a relationship. They are the actions of someone who is punishing their partner. He is expecting her to fight for them yet not offering or doing any fighting for the relationship himself. He has not accepted any responsibility for the relationship breakdown. He even thinks that the OP going to counselling should be for his benefit i.e. so that the OP has some epiphany and comes back to him.

Overtiredmum has he ever even asked what he could do to make things better at any stage in this process (especially before you split)?

CinnabarRed Wed 24-Apr-13 09:20:15

My dad had a breakdown and walked away from his marriage. I think if you'd asked him at the time he would have said that no-one was listening to him or trying to understand his needs. They were, of course, but he couldn't process it. I say I think that's what he'd say it felt like because I can't ask him - he killed himself when he realised what he'd lost. So no, I'm not going to suggest that the OP LTB at this stage in the thread when there's no evidence whatsoever that she's tried to talk to him about change. If she come back and says she's been trying to get him to step up for months and he's refused then I'll change my tune. But until then, no.

Lemonylemon Wed 24-Apr-13 09:36:14

He keeps telling me I have to fight to save us

OP: Why is it just you who needs to do all the work regarding your relationship? Your counsellor is right about the fact that it takes two to make a marriage not work. He's bailing out of all responsibility for it.

cjel Wed 24-Apr-13 09:42:47

How are you this morning OP. I'm thinking about you.x

"He keeps telling me I have to fight to save us,"
Yes, that's confused me too. What can he possibly mean? It's as if he's remembered some trite phrase from an eighties melodrama confused. If anyone should be fighting to save the marriage it should be him - taking on the responsibilities that have ground the OP down and giving her space to recover. Pulling his bloody finger out, not sitting back and telling his exhausted and unhappy wife that she HAS to fight to keep him. What an arse he is to see his marriage in these terms.

OP, I hope you're feeling OK today, yesterday must have been emotionally exhausting for you.

CinnabarRed Wed 24-Apr-13 12:36:56

Perhaps he means that he's committed to making the changes needed to save their marriage but that she has to be wiling to be there too?

fubbsy Wed 24-Apr-13 16:35:33

Maybe he does mean that (we will never know) but he does not seem to have successfully communicated that sentiment to the OP.

The thing is, he is her husband, not her master. She really does not have to do things just because he says she has to.

CinnabarRed Wed 24-Apr-13 16:56:27

Of course she doesn't have to do what he says. No-one is saying she does.

To be absolutely honest, I don't think she sounds particularly well at the moment either. Christ knows, with all that's on her plate I don't blame her. She reminds me so very much of both myself when I had depression and my father when left our family. I'm absolutely terrified she's going to do something that she will later come to regret.

That's the main reason I'm so pleased that she has her counsellor to talk to in real life.

I'm going to leave this thread now. I can't tell if I'm projecting my own issues onto the OP.

OP, all the very best to you. Wishing you peace and health and happiness.

Overtiredmum Wed 24-Apr-13 17:35:50

I really do appreciate all opinions, comments and support on here.

Please be rest-assured though that I am absolutely fine in myself, I am sorry if I portrayed that I may be unwell. I guess it is still early days, H is still very much in denial of my feelings. Like night we argued, and he was very spiteful, that is his right I guess, and yet he is still treating me as if we are still "together".

cjel Wed 24-Apr-13 17:46:05

It sounds intolerable, forgive me for asking but are you actively trying to separate? I know you said that you have separated but you are still living as a couple and talking as if you haven't made a decision yet? I would advise that you make a serious effort to get him to move out of the home. The sooner the better, you are living in a no mans land with the worst of all situations.

Overtiredmum Wed 24-Apr-13 18:07:27

We are having to share the house because of my job, I don't get home from work until 11.30pm. Then I have to work days all this weekend, so he would need to be there again. He is sleeping on the sofa.

He has asked me to help him get a mortgage on another property that he wants to buy and do up for himself and the DC? When he says that I think he has realised that there is no reconciliation. Then in his next breath he is asking if this is actually "serious"?!

cjel Wed 24-Apr-13 18:12:15

Oh yes sorry I do remember reading that. However It has to be overcome. You can't live this way, something is going to have to give. Surely if you have separated he has to start making a life for himself and your Dcs will have two homes? I am not underestimating the difficulties. Will he live in other house while its being done up I think your priority has to be getting him somewhere to live quickly.

GoSuckEggs Wed 24-Apr-13 18:31:09

Stay strong, you can do this.

you just need to keep telling him you are not together and will never be again. over and over until he gets it.

Overtiredmum Wed 24-Apr-13 18:55:34

Nervous about putting my name on another mortgage though, feel like I am being held to ransome? I'd have to get a contract drawn up?

cjel Wed 24-Apr-13 19:09:08

Don't go any where near joint mortgage. We have a buy to let together and it was agreed my name would come off but he has never got round to it I am liable and he has 180,000 outstanding on it. Has finally put it on the market! Don't even think about it. You have to get legal advise about this urgently. He is taking the mick big time!!

fubbsy Wed 24-Apr-13 19:12:00

If I were in your position, I wouldn't be putting my name on another joint mortgage. It sounds like a really bad idea. You are trying to separate from him, not get more involved.

Overtiredmum Wed 24-Apr-13 19:22:17

Just had this text from my mum:

"Why is it all me me me. Fed up with you thinking that is all about you. I thought your kids were the most important thing in your life. It doesn't look like that to us. Dad is so disgusted I've never seen him like this before but so what".

To which I replied "I don't know what to say to that"

She replied "Don't bother".

cjel Wed 24-Apr-13 19:25:24

You poor thing. Please don't bother to get into conversation with her, she will never understand your decision, is clearly going to be no support whatsoever and you only need people who will look after you in your life at the moment while you go through all this.Have you a friend in RL to dump on?

Overtiredmum Wed 24-Apr-13 19:36:35

Nope I have absolutely no-one that I would share all of this with. I nearly said back to her "Well did you put me and my sister first when you threw my dad out?" but decided not to.

She just text back:

"You are right - you do have a problem!"

wordyBird Wed 24-Apr-13 19:37:03

Oh dear...well, it's sad that they feel the need to have a hissy fit because you are running your own life. Best leave them to fume. They'll get over it.

Try to detach and tell yourself their opinion is irrelevant (difficult, I know, but try it anyway). It's always painful to make changes: and strong characters don't take kindly to being sidelined, but it has to be done somehow.

Stay strong, you're doing fine. brew

cjel Wed 24-Apr-13 19:37:38

you poor thing. How you feeling?

Overtiredmum Wed 24-Apr-13 19:46:11

Heartbroken that they, or she, can be so blunt and damning!

Why is it all me me me?!

FFS, come on, lets have a vote, who thinks I should just give up how I feel and just make do?

cjel Wed 24-Apr-13 19:47:23

I just wanted to say that I understand why you wouldn't want to unload on your friends after your experience of m and H but suddenly felt that you did say friends were being supportive and its amazing how they really want to be involved in helping towards your new life. Have a think about who you would choose and take the risk of talking to themxx

Overtiredmum Wed 24-Apr-13 19:57:34

I just don't understand how she can say that to me? Thought parents were supposed to have unconditional love for their children?

Overtiredmum Wed 24-Apr-13 20:15:27

I really am just speechless!

There are so many things I want to say back to her, but whats the point?! Is this her way of trying to bully and manipulate me? sad

Unfortunately OP, being and arse does not make you infertile; would that it did, the world would be a far simpler place if it did sad. Some parents are just crap, and I'm afraid your mother is one of them. Interesting that she said ""Why is it all me me me. Fed up with you thinking that is all about you" - spoken like a true narcissist who resents not being at the centre of everyone's world! I wonder; if you were to think back, how many example of her self-absorption would come to mind? Quite a few I think. As has already been mentioned, best to detach from her.

"I nearly said back to her "Well did you put me and my sister first when you threw my dad out?" but decided not to."
Far more restrained than I would have been, but then you're a much nicer person. (Maybe keep that in reserve though, for when you want her to go in a huff and leave you be.)

"Is this her way of trying to bully and manipulate me?"
Absolutely sad.

And don't touch a joint mortgage with a bargepole.

cjel Wed 24-Apr-13 20:28:58

Your last two post just spoke of exactly why you are a lovely lady. Others would have ranted and raved at her appalling treatment of you. I can't imagine how hard it must be to realise that your parents aren't what you have wished for. I did wonder if your dad is actually thinking what she said and not just going along with the flow by being quiet? You have really good role models of how not to parent your Dcs and by making the brave choice you are making now will ensure that they never have to feel as you do. Try as hard as you can not to rise to her, I don't think she will ever think of anything but how it is effecting her, and a long row with her will just take energy you don't need to be wasting at the moment. Can you journal what you would like to say or if you think someone may find it just write it all down and destroy it? How often are you seeing your counsellor? If you can't face telling someone in RL what you are going through it would be good to see her at least once a week.<<<BIG HUGS>>>

Overtiredmum Wed 24-Apr-13 20:38:43

How can I be a lovely lady, if I'm prepared to make those around me clearly hate me so much?? m I really being so selfish? They are not even giving me chance to prove that I might actually be very right about my own children?

Overtiredmum Wed 24-Apr-13 20:39:37

Have only had an initial session, I now have to sit tight and wait for a regular appointment, could be months sad

I just feel destroyed now

Overtiredmum Wed 24-Apr-13 20:55:25

I know one thing, I will never treat my DC like my "D"M is treating me?! She has no justification to be like this with me.

She may never understand it, but she will have to accept it. FFS she's making me feel like a child being told off!

I love my parents, but do I need THIS??

fubbsy Wed 24-Apr-13 21:02:31

You are not making them hate you, they are doing that entirely under their own steam. Yes it is sad and upsetting when a marriage breaks down, but there is no justification for her treating you that way.

FWIW I agree that you seem like a lovely lady, tryingto do your best in difficult circumstances.

mummytime Wed 24-Apr-13 21:02:36

Who hates you? Not your DC, I bet.

It may well be that in six months or so you realise that the reason you were ever with your H is because of your "D" M.

Take support from your friends and here. Get legal advice.

fubbsy Wed 24-Apr-13 21:05:25

I have the same thoughts exactly about my mum - I can never imagine treating my dd the way she treated me.

"How can I be a lovely lady, if I'm prepared to make those around me clearly hate me so much??"
You are not doing this to make them hate you, you are doing this because you are unhappy. I would be unhappy in your shoes. Anyone would. Well, any normal sane person would. smile

And I doubt that even they hate you, they're just trying to control you. They'll say whatever they think will manipulate you best, and I'm sorry, but making you feel bad about all this is the tactic they have chosen. They want you to doubt yourself, to accept more-of-the-same. And that's really not good enough, not for you and not for your DC. They don't hate you. They don't respect you as they should, they don't love and cherish you as they should, but they don't hate you.

Overtiredmum Wed 24-Apr-13 21:14:17

Is it maybe just because they are an older generation? I remember loads of times my mum falling out with my nan for various reasons, she had an acid tongue too sad

I've had such a nice day today too - ruined and feel like I've taken a massive jump backwards.

cjel Wed 24-Apr-13 21:14:25

You are a lovely lady or you wouldn't have sat crying at your sadness you would have told them all to get lost ages ago. You wouldn't even being considering what H wants with regards to your financial help to get a new home and you would not be concerned about the way your dcs spend their childhood. You have had the bad luck to have a toxic mother and a H who is abusive as well. Please don't listen to what they think of you. It is not true. You had one session with counsellor and she agreed, all the new friends you have made on mn agree, you are a lovely capable woman and mum. I wish I could fast forward you several months of counselling when you start to realise you are good things, you deserve good things and you deserve to be happy. I don't think anyone hates you, I just think they are fighting to hold on the their own selfish needs being met and up till now you have let them at the expense of being the fantastic overtired mum that you are. Get up every morning and say to yourself in the mirror 'I am lovely, I am capable and I deserve to be happy' Try it throughout the day at the very least it will make you think of some mad woman on mn Try it!!

Overtiredmum Wed 24-Apr-13 21:20:02

When the kids called me at bedtime, H took great delight in telling me he had spent an hour cleaning the lounge floor?! I didn't have the heart to tell him I spent an hour hanging out of the uptairs windows today trying to clean them grin His exact words were:

"I've spent a whole hour on my hands and knees cleaning the floor for you?" For me????

I'm so done, I am mentally exhausted with it. After a great day, they can just bring me down so easily sad

Overtiredmum Wed 24-Apr-13 21:23:51

Cjel I think it will be a long time before I think I could try anything like that but grin Mad woman?! xx

I really am getting some incredible support on here, please don't give up on me just yet sad

Snazzynewyear Wed 24-Apr-13 21:25:47

OP, there's a lot going on here but what is clear to me is that your mother is treating you very badly. Does she help you with any childcare at all? If not I would just completely cut contact for the moment. No-one deserves to be told how awful they are all the time like she's doing. Ignore her completely, she's being horrible. Can you block her texts?

What organisation is providing your counselling, is it NHS? Can you go back to your GP (if so) or ring the place and ask if there is any chance they can get you in earlier or if you can take a cancellation if one comes up?

cjel Wed 24-Apr-13 21:27:32

Its your thoughts giving them the power to bring you down. Try and choose to reject the negative messages you are getting from them try and say ' that isn't the truth and I don't need it. Try filling your mind with lovely positive thoughts from someone at work or someone on here or a friend? Conciously try to replace them with a happy phrase. Even something like I am right and I will be happy.

margaritathatcher Wed 24-Apr-13 21:38:11

Remember this, only you know how you feel. Be guided by your emotions. You have been unhappy for a while now and you need to act on that.

Limit contact with people who make you feel bad about yourself (i.e. DM and DH) and spend time with people who make you feel good.

It's a simple formula but it works!

Overtiredmum Wed 24-Apr-13 21:48:22

The counselling is with Relate. She said I could get a call next week, or it could be a couple of months, depends on an opening or cancellation.

Can I block her texts? What if she needs me?

Snazzynewyear Wed 24-Apr-13 21:53:45

She has your dad there, doesn't she?

The consequences of being a horrible bully to someone are, or should be, that they don't get to call on you when they need you. Your mum can't have it both ways.

cjel Wed 24-Apr-13 21:54:11

Block Mums texts. I'd say if its what you want to do,If she needs you she can get hold of you another way. Do what you need to keep yourself safe from attack.xx

Overtiredmum Wed 24-Apr-13 21:56:54

Well I knew she would be hard on me, but not like this. I don't need her being like this with me right now, its hard enough as it it sad

Overtiredmum Wed 24-Apr-13 22:02:23

Well I knew she would be hard on me, but not like this. I don't need her being like this with me right now, its hard enough as it it sad

Probably going to need to take time off work, he is refusing to look after the DC again so I can work sad

Am so sick of this! angry

cjel Wed 24-Apr-13 22:11:53

I'm not suprised you are sick of it he is being so horrid. I don't know how on earth he thinks this behaviour is going to make a go of your relationship.What an idiot. While you have time off could you get yourself organised - Legal advise .maybe even WA and could you get a place to live for you and Dcs if hes not going to help with childcare you can get a babysitter/childminder organised. Try and be proactive working towards what you want to acheive for your life and he'll have to fit in around you and the dcs. A solicitor and WA will really help you move out of this situation, It sounds as if H and M have ground you down to thinking you have no choices but if you can talk to people outside who will know what your options really are I think you will feel empowered and not so exhausted. Its a positive thing that you are getting fed up with their behaviour and are not believing what they say so readily.If you get angry it will help you move in the right directionxxx

Overtiredmum Wed 24-Apr-13 22:37:25

I can't sit at work night after night waiting to see what he will come out with next, waiting to see if he threatens not to look after his own children, its too hard and I'm worried the stress will make me mess my job up. I'll make an appointment to see GP and see if I can get some additional counselling, get signed off for a couple of weeks and in that time see if I can find a childminder, get a day job and go from there sad

NotSureWhatItIs Wed 24-Apr-13 22:43:19

Well if he wants to play a game of 'I am not going to look after the dcs so you can work' maybe you could do the same to him? Or at least remind him that you CAN do the same thing and stop him from working too?

Don't fall into that trap. If you start taking time off, request day time hours, look for a new job etc... you will soon end up in a situation where you have no job (Lost the one you have thanks to him and can't find another because you have to look after the dcs whilst he works).
You will get financially dependant on him which is the last thing you need but the one thing he might be hoping for.

Also don't put your name on a mortgage! Who on earth would pout their name on a mortgage with their STBexH??

Agree re your mum. If you can block her texts. She can still ring you/leave a message if there is something urgent.

Overtiredmum Wed 24-Apr-13 22:48:09

Well wish me luck. I am off home for another verbal battering no doubt. I'll try and be in touch at some stage tomorrow, but please keep supporting me, I can view messages from my phone, but it just won't let me reply sad

Snazzynewyear Wed 24-Apr-13 22:53:53

Could you look at getting a babysitter, even short term, so you can still go to work? Even if it means you lose out financially it would be better than losing your job altogether right now. Agree with NotSure that you need to keep some financial independence from him.

Will your employer really not entertain the idea of you working daytimes? You've said you love your job, I presume you are good at it - do they want to lose a good employee?

Fingers crossed you can get in quickly with Relate, then.

You could also consider saying to him 'If you want to make me feel even more strongly that I want us to split up, then you're going the right way about it with all this fucking about and refusing to look after the kids. Why do you think that would make me want to stay with you?' He is relying on you being made to feel bad and that it's somehow your fault that he's doing this, when in truth it's showing him up to be a dick. Call him on that.

Snazzynewyear Wed 24-Apr-13 22:54:59

Good luck, keep your chin up. You don't need to feel bad for the awful way husband and mother are treating you. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other for now.

cjel Wed 24-Apr-13 23:21:58

Taking time off to start to sort things out is a great idea. Don't start to play a game by threatening him, rise above it .Save your energy for sorting your life without him. move forward. I am thinking of you and hoping you won't get drawn into conversation with him tonight. I think that he doesn't have to be physically violent for you to get help from WA and even the police if he is threatening you and won't leave the house if you want. At least if you have time off work he will have no reason to be in the house unless you want him to. Hoping for a peaceful evening for you.xx

wordyBird Thu 25-Apr-13 19:24:16

Thinking of you, Overtiredmum.

I don't like the sound of the verbal battering you mentioned. If this is a feature of your relationship - alongside the attempts to deny your feelings, and shut you out of the house, etc, then a word with Women's Aid might be in order.

flippinada Thu 25-Apr-13 19:36:50

I've just read through this thread with increasing sadness and feeling furious on your behalf Overtired

Excuse my language here, but your mother is being a disgusting, grade a bitch and your husband is a whining, passive-aggressive bully. No wonder you feel so exhausted and ground down. I don't blame you for wanting out and I think you and your DC will be much happier.

Please do continue with the counselling and contact WA as well.

whethergirl Thu 25-Apr-13 21:33:20

Seriously, I cannot wait for the day when you'll be separated from your "whining, passive-agressive bully" as flippinada so perfectly described him. It's awful living with someone you don't want to, whoever they might be. This is your home, the one place you should look forward to being, your safe haven. Seriously, the whole cleaning-the-floor for you bollocks is a piss take. How are you supposed to react to that? With gratitude? With remorse? Does he really think you're going to have second thoughts now that he has cleaned the floor???

Your mum is making you feel like shit, so just cut contact for now. I can never understand why people always think the person being 'dumped' (sorry, couldn't think of a better word!) is the one that's hurting.

I can totally relate to everything you're saying, you are speaking with maturity and wisdom. Your mum and your h on the other hand...a whole other planet.

Hoping you are OK today, OP.

Overtiredmum Fri 26-Apr-13 20:04:01

Hi all, just popping in quickly before I put my babies to bed.

H moved out yesterday - staying at his brothers for now. GP has signed me off work for now, initially for 2 weeks with a view to extending as my BP is quite high.

No news from DM and H swears he has heard nothing.

I have spoken to a good friend and she has surprised me so much. She knows and loves my H to bits, but she told me she was chuffed about what I was doing, her attitude is you have one life, live it to be happy, not to what everyone tells you you should.

Oddly, me and H are actually getting on better, as friends. I know he still wants to try, but I am sticking to my guns. My DD had the best day at school ever today, no tears refusing to leave me.

I am happier, more relaxed, I am not drinking and I am sleeping so well. There is a long, long way to go, but I feel better. H is taking the DC out tomorrow, which means I can get some things done.

Work are trying to support me and trying to find a job for me on days, although I also have 2 interviews lined up for Tuesday and I have been put forward to two amazing management positions I could only dream of! I may even have found a childminder for DD for 2 days a week. DD met her today and she adored her instantly!

I have light at the end of my tunnel! No news yet about my next counselling session but grin

The support I have received on here is amazing, keep talking to me, I'll come on tomorrow evening for a catch up!

Thank you xxxxx

Oh, that is all sounding so positive OP! I am so glad. smile

It sounds as if your work really values you and wants to keep you (and the two interviews you have can only focus their minds!) so that bodes well. Sleeping well will do you a power of good, it's hard to think well when your brain is sluggish with exhaustion.

And no new from your DM is definitely good news!

Snazzynewyear Fri 26-Apr-13 21:12:26

That's great news OP. Onwards and upwards! Hope things continue to improve.

flippinada Fri 26-Apr-13 22:39:28

That is great news Over - how lovely to read such a positive update.

cjel Fri 26-Apr-13 22:46:03

Nearly in tears at such a lovely post. I am soo pleased for youxxx

wordyBird Sat 27-Apr-13 10:16:08

This is wonderful news! A short time following your own instincts, doing what you need to do, and both you and DD feel the benefits.

New job opportunities, and support from a caring friend - it gets better and better. I'm so happy for you Overtired smile

Crunchymunchyhoneycakes Sat 27-Apr-13 10:22:29

I'm glad things are going so well for you. I just wanted to make the point that actually you (like everyone) have the right to end a relationship just because you don't want to be in it anymore. That's enough of a reason.

Overtiredmum Sat 27-Apr-13 20:27:55

Just another quick stop by to say to you all.

I have had a great day. H took the DC out this afternoon, whilst I popped to work to finish some projects I had outstanding. I work in Canary Wharf, London and its such a lovely place - for the first time in my life I sat on my own in a bar with a glass of wine and sandwich?! Never done it before and I loved the "me" time, bit weird but nice.

H and I continue to talk. I don't know if he is genuinely starting to understand but he has admitted that the DC are better and happier, they are getting better quality of our time. We are starting to discuss financials but H admits that he still clings to the hope that the counselling will help me "get better" confused. Hes gone out tonight, leaving his washing in the laundry basket shock. Its still there!!

Also had a text from DM today, asking if I was ok. I am being extremely guarded. I have asked them to come see DC next weekend as it is DD birthday on Sunday - if anything is said, I have told H that I will make my apologies and leave the house until they leave. Is that right thing do you think?

OTM xxxx

cjel Sat 27-Apr-13 20:43:57

So glad you had time to relax today. Its good he still lives in hope it may mean he behaves while you part and when its happened and he realises its permenant it'll be too late for his bad behaviour to affect you> also as far as mums visit goes I'd say of course you can do what you want you no longer have to be bullied or abused by these two.xx

DonDrapersAltrEgoBigglesDraper Sat 27-Apr-13 21:22:42

So glad to read the latest developments on your thread Overtired. You know in your heart and head that you are doing the right thing.

I have to say, that a lot of the language your mother has been using is very illuminating...

"if you let him go, someone will come along and snap him up, how will you feel then?"

"I just said that I hope that someone makes him happy, to which she just laughed and said I will never do any better"

The bottom line for her - clearly, since she stayed and stayed in an unhappy relationship - is that being partnered up with a man is The Most Important Thing.

'Someone will snap him up'. Threatening you with the idea that you'll give him up and then lose your chance to get him back. As if this is a bad thing...

'Will never do any better' - but by being single and without him you will be doing better. This is totally unfathomable to her though, as she just can't comprehend the idea of being single as being the preferred and desired option. You don't need to meet someone else to do better, you just need to leave.

You're talking to somone who is fundamentally speaking a very different language to you, and this is why she just doesn't get it. You keep trying to make her understand, to express how you're feeling, but none of it makes any sense to her, because the idea of going it alone is so unnatural to her. So unnatural that it's impossible for her to get her head around it; ergo you can't possibly mean it, you're unwell, you just need to be talked around, etc, etc.

Overtiredmum Sun 28-Apr-13 09:22:15

Feeling anxious and abit scared today. For the last eight years my life has been so routine and I knew where my life was heading, the uncertainty of the next few months is terrifying!

What if I can't get day work, and the only way I am work for now is to continue in my evening position? What if I get a job but can't get adequate childcare? Panicking abit today confused

cjel Sun 28-Apr-13 11:28:15

Panic normal, understandable but not necessary!! What if you get the perfect job, childcare is sorted, you have the safe happy home you want and all the money you need? Not minimising your worries but I was with H for 35 yrs and have been sahm, but I did it all and its amazing how 'good' things seem to crop up just when you want them Try to fucus on the moment and what you need to do now. You don't know you haven't got day job yet and your mind is already having you and dcs in dreadful situation!! Hope you can go back to the idea that you deserve the best and that good things do happen to good people - THAT IS YOUxxx

wordyBird Mon 29-Apr-13 17:37:47

Hope you are ok today, Overtiredmum.

Cjel is right, panic is normal and understandable! On another thread, wise poster Jenny pointed out that all change is hard, even change for the better. That sometimes it seems easier to do nothing!

I totally sympathise with this view. But try to keep pointing forward, and believe in yourself a bit more. Think of a time when you did something without knowing if you'd succeed. Chances are, you survived! Either you did succeed, or it worked out because you took another route.

So hang in there, and post on here if we can help cheer you along... smile

Overtiredmum Tue 07-May-13 10:37:55

I don't know where to turn. This weekend has been horrendous, he is now apparently loving back in on Saturday to "take control of the situation"!

It was my DD birthday at the weekend. He turned up Friday to see them, clearly had the hump and in the mood for an argument, I told him to leave, which he did, but then continued abusing me by text. I then found out he had gone out and got drunk, telling everyone I'm taking him to the cleaners!!

Same day I found out from my neighbour that hes asked him to spy on me during the day, see who is in and out(?), that while I was at work he was trying to ponce beer off them, and then worse still, he left the kids a few times with same neighbour to go and buy beer!

Then Saturday he was here all day, not a bad day, we were pleasant enough with each other, the kids went to bed, cos I refused sex, he went to the pub! More abuse by text.

Then yesterday, another fairly pleasant day, his parents turned up to see kids, then he left to go back to his brother. Enough time to crank open a beer, the abuse starts and hes moving back blah blah.

I've told him that if he moves back, we will argue and I don't want that for the kids. Hes told me I am a selfish bitch, when I told him that ever since the kids have come along, I've done everything, in terms of the cooking, cleaning, washing, running the kids around, sometimes being on the go for 20 hours a day, without any form of gratitude from him - but apparently I'm being selfish?!!

Hes pushing me further and further into a corner. No sign of my next relate session yet. I'm so alone, I don't know what to do sad xx

Overtiredmum Tue 07-May-13 11:21:05

bumping

SilentLurker Tue 07-May-13 11:54:46

OTM, I don't post (as I really haven't much knowledge to help anyone) but you sound so scared and alone I just wanted to hold your hand.

I think you should start keeping a log of any abusive texts, calls, etc. That he appears to expect you to have sex with him when you are separated makes me really quite concerned for you and I think at some point you may find a log useful.

On counselling, was your initial session with the person who will be your counseller? You seemed to hit it off and it would be a shame to lose that but I think you need to be heard and will fit well with quite a few counsellers. Could you research any other resources in your area and see if you could see someone more quickly? I was able to access (free, non-NHS) counselling within a week when suffering from PND but I'm not UK mainland. If there is nothing else in the area I would suggest first off contact relate and see if there is any word on appointments and then maybe suggest a diary? I find writing my feelings down somehow can take some of the sting out of them, it may also help you when you get to counselling.

Snazzynewyear Tue 07-May-13 11:57:35

Don't panic OTM. Try not react to his angry comments but do document them. I've lost track of where he is actually staying. What had you agreed before the weekend about living arrangements and access to the kids?

Overtiredmum Tue 07-May-13 12:34:22

He is currently staying with brother and seein dc daily x

mummytime Tue 07-May-13 12:55:13

Have you hard legal advice? If not get some ASAP.

It sounds,to me as if he was "being good" to try to get back with you, but is now lashing out. You need find out if you can keep him out of your house, those abussive text messages may be evidence that you need. Don't worry about the threats he is making, he is portraying himself very badly at present. If you didn't have unreasonable behaviour before,you do now, with neighbours being asked to spy etc.

You need to keep him out of the house, contact with the children needs to be outside the house from now on.

Try not to argue back, it will not get you anywhere. But don't worry that people will accept his version of events unquestioningly. I once got harangued for 1/2 hour in a shop by a guy telling me his version of his divorce from his ex-wife. All he did was annoy me, and basically wreck the business as no one wanted to go into that shop anymore if they could help it.

Rememb er that you can report abuse to the police. You do not have to accept it from this tiresome man just because you have been married to him. It's probably time to get some legal backup and make arrangements to end the marriage and put him in his place.

anklebitersmum Tue 07-May-13 14:36:57

Overtiredmum you'll be fine. Have read the whole thread and you could be me 10yrs ago.
He's going through the angry, poor me phase. My ex was a royal pain as regards childcare and managed to cry all over anyone who'd listen when we split-including my closest family git
Still, I told the parents that I wasn't asking them to help me fix anything or requesting advice I was giving them a 'polite' heads up. No more, no less.
My neighbour was spying and gossiping with all and sundry too..made scene after scene in the street flippin poisonous loony

That aside, time with DC should be out of the house. Get a bolt or two (nice and big) for both the front and back doors so you can lock up and be safe but not have changed the locks officially and don't worry about what others think. People soon get sick of hearing it-especially if he starts waffling after a beer and is ruining other people's pub time wink

If he starts turning up unannounced and being abusive call the police. They'll remove him-he's moved out so while legally it might be 'half his house' he's still breaching the peace and they won't stand for any nonsense, especially where children are involved.

Get yourself to a good family law solicitor and take some proper advice. Usually free for the first session, when you can decide whether you want to use them or not.

Oh and I'm only mildly insane with umpteen children and a nice DH now grin

Overtiredmum Tue 07-May-13 14:43:02

How can I stop him moving back in though Its his comments about taling control of the situatopn that I'm so angry about sad

wordyBird Tue 07-May-13 15:04:21

Have a word with women's aid Overtired. They might have some advice for you. Verbal abuse, pressuring you for sex, trying to spy on you, saying he's moving back to take control...it's all very bad.

Overtiredmum Tue 07-May-13 15:07:36

just feel like its what i deserve sad

anklebitersmum Tue 07-May-13 15:08:29

Not sure on the legalities to be absolutely honest.

As I said, the police will help to avoid putting you and your DC in an untenable position-especially if he gets abusive so don't be scared to call them. They escorted my ex away both sober and drunk and dizzy a few times in the early stages of separation. Then when he did the I'm moving back in routine I just point blank refused to let him back in and as I'd bolted the doors he just scuttled away luckily

Get yourself an appointment with a solicitor or ring and ask advice-often they'll give you a legal heads up over the phone in situations like this. You need to be on it quickly though, especially if he's likely to make a fuss.

wordyBird Tue 07-May-13 15:52:16

No one deserves to be abused, spied on,pressured for sex or bullied. No-one.

Take a deep breath, and take back control brew .... phone WA, or solicitor: just one step forward at a time.

anklebitersmum Tue 07-May-13 16:29:57

It absolutely is not what you deserve.
No one deserves to have to settle for a second rate life just because it makes a few uncomfortable waves in the social strata.

I understand absolutely that you feel guilty at ending the relationship-not least as you've basically been told that he's all you're worth, what an ungrateful child you are and how you need to 'toe the party line'. angry

You do not need to toe anyone's line. You are a capable woman who has made a decision to change her life for the better and who will not be bullied into submission.

TweedWasSoLastYear Tue 07-May-13 17:51:29

Not had time to read whole thread , apologies if x posted + /or wrong
Keep all the threatening , rude , abusive text messages from him . Your phone might also have a 'record' feature on it , so you can record any abuse down the phone.
Not totally legal , but if you need some proof for the Police or a solicitor it becomes alot more plausable with evidence.
Dont know what to make of him really , sounds like an angry man , somewhat entitled , maybe very used to getting his own way and successful in work/carreer .
It might be that he cant accept failure and has taken on a ' I will fix this, make it go the way I want ' attitude . Hoping you will fall back into line re the sex / washing / cooking and being a good little wifey.
shame as you sound very worn down and upset .
Do not give in to him.

In a way, it's quite useful that he's being such an arse. It helps remind you why you have done the right thing by ending the relationship. He's not a good husband or father, is he? Not if he's this selfish and determined to have his own way.
Remember you do not need his permission or his co-operation to divorce him. You are not a slave or a dog and he is not your owner. As others have advised, go and see a solicitor, and have a chat with WA as well.

Overtiredmum Tue 07-May-13 22:50:23

Am so tired of the battles x

wordyBird Tue 07-May-13 23:07:22

Of course you are, Overtired.
You need someone on your side.
For now...Hope you get some sleep. brew

Overtiredmum Wed 08-May-13 07:24:30

Am tired, slept ok though. Its raining, was hoping to get to the park today with dd. Hes still determined he moving back in. For kids sake I don't thimk i am strong enough to refuse sad

Overtiredmum Wed 08-May-13 10:01:06

bump

Lemonylemon Wed 08-May-13 11:21:08

Come on OP: You will have to be strong enough. Get some back up - phone WA, keep posting on here, speak to the police. You must do these things for your peace of mind and also for the sake of your kids.

Can you see your GP as well? Maybe s/he can help?

Overtiredmum Wed 08-May-13 11:27:18

can't speak to police, hes not really threatening anything. am off work at mo, two weeks so far, am taking a third. have been looking at finances, I can afford to move out but hes trying to call my bluff sad

Machli Wed 08-May-13 12:05:55

I can't add to the advice it would just be the same as everyone else's.

However the words "taking control of the situation" sound like they are coming from someone else. Your Mum? His Brother?

As for moving back in. You HAVE to be strong enough to keep him out. You HAVE to be. You got him out once, you can keep him out. If he turns nasty call the police. They will remove him to calm the situation on a short term basis but it may well show him that you mean business.

Machli Wed 08-May-13 12:09:07

Oh and cut your Mum off for now, she sounds horrendous. I'd be tempted to tell her that her lack of support was doing damage to your relationship that there may be no coming back from.

Samebod Wed 08-May-13 12:21:08

You poor thing sad

I've been going through exactly the same as you otm since I decided to separate from my ex,my family didn't support me and he 'got' to them and so called friends and I was left feeling like the bitch from hell because I dared to listen to my inner self and make a brave decision to leave a person I no longer loved.

Hold in there lovely,just keep swimming for you and your dc.

Use your time off work to get some legal advice-seek out a solicitor who specialises in Family Law and know your rights.

Is it too early for you to start divorce or legal separation proceedings?

Oh and stay away from toxic family,you wouldn't put up with this behaviour from someone who wasn't biologically connected to you,would you? YOU deserve better and you deserve respect and support regardless of your decision to end a relationship.

Sending strength x

Overtiredmum Wed 08-May-13 12:21:15

DM hasn't even asked how I am! I am leeping her at arms lenhth. I just don't know how I can stop HIM moving back in? I've told him he isn't welcome but its not fair to drag kids further into this sad

Machli Wed 08-May-13 12:24:13

Yes start divorce proceedings immediately. That shows everyone you mean business and psychologically will be good for you too.

wordyBird Wed 08-May-13 12:30:54

they are picking up on my unhappiness....DD is home for 3 days a week - I spend whole days crying, with her drying my tears, telling me she loves me and it will be OK. Thats surely not healthy for her?? My DS has a nervous thing he does with his eyes, which he cannot seem to stop.

The kids have been dragged in by HIM. Not you. You have been trying to help them, and you, by separating: and it worked. Some way, somehow, you have to stand your ground, and know you must win for their sake.

Even if they are happy for a little while at the thought of everything being as it was - you know it won't last and you'll be back where you were. But worse sad

Can you call WA? womensaid.org.uk/
They can help you get through this.

Samebod Wed 08-May-13 12:35:47

I moved out of the house and started divorce proceedings.Not an easy task but he was making me physically/mentally ill.

My ex still thought I was just having a little midlife crisis and I needed time out and I would 'give in' .I had him on my doorstep begging/snarling for months.

My divorce will be through next month.He's taken the hint now! (but his true EA colours have really shown through throughout).

Call a solicitor and get some legal advice ASAP

It hurts like hell when people show their true colours.I am still grieving for the lack of support but I now know who loves me unconditionally.

Overtiredmum Wed 08-May-13 13:01:11

He really put the kids on the spot last night, asking them if they wanted him back here. DS said yes, DD said no, which was insightful to me since it is DD who has really experiemced my unhappiness envy

Samebod Wed 08-May-13 13:11:00

He needs to stop manipulating the children,it's completely out of order to bring them into any decision making and asking poisonous.it's akin to asking them who they love the most.
They won't understand why their parents aren't living together,just that it all hurts and it is different.

He's a first class twunt.

www.relate.org.uk/young-people-service-common-problem/237/index.html show him this!

fromparistoberlin Wed 08-May-13 13:12:04

OP my heart goes out to you

I am having a very bad time with DP and I suspect if I ended it, it would be not dissimilar to what you are experiencing

The thing that really cried out at me me is how TIRED you are, and how vulnerable

I think you MUST keep on with the counselling to get external support, and strenth

I think you are very smart to cut contact with your Mum

and, I have to say, I do feel compassion for your DH. Yes he is behaving very badly but I guess he is hurting too. I am not condoning him, but on a human level I feel for him too

your guilt is really coming through, and I think you dont have anything to feel guilty about,if you are that unhappy you have to get help and address it

stay strong xxxx

Overtiredmum Wed 08-May-13 13:16:41

Agree he is hurting and obviously trying to get me to change my mind, but if he loved me he would listen too? Agree he has to stop using kids, I have never done that and wouldn't, they have 2 parents who should be there angry

Lemonylemon Wed 08-May-13 13:25:28

OP: You really, really need to get yourself some legal advice as a matter of urgency. He is being abusive because he's emotionally abusing you and the children....

Overtiredmum Wed 08-May-13 13:31:34

I'm just really scared of what my future holds. Trying to be practical just gets me nowhere sad

TerrysNo2 Wed 08-May-13 13:56:21

OTM you know what your future holds, a happier you and happier kids - you've already seen this in such a short time. The rest of the practicals you can work on - there is help out there for you but you need to remember why you are doing this and keep going.

I think your children are very lucky to have a mum who brave enough to make an incredibly tough decision. No doubt, this is not the easy option but after reading your whole thread now I just wanted to say that I think you are doing the right thing and that you need to keep being strong about your decision.

In your DH's defense, it sounds like he is very hurt and lashing out, it doesn't make it ok but if you remind yourself of that then maybe his words won't hurt you so much or make an impact on your decision

Do not be afraid to ask for help wherever you can get it.

Overtiredmum Wed 08-May-13 14:14:03

My family and him seem to thimk this is a recent decision for me, it really isn' its been a good year, but they don't want to hear that sad I see a great future for me and dc, he can be in it, but as their dad only. just how do I make him understand that?

Samebod Wed 08-May-13 14:20:20

You can't make him see anything he refuses to accept.obviously he is hurting and angry,you've made your decision and he can't control that,I'm afraid you can't control his reaction either.you don't have to put up with any shit from him or your mother though.

Focus on you and the dc and the practicalities of what you need to do next on this brave new phase of your life.

I really think you need to start the legal process of separation/divorce.

TerrysNo2 Wed 08-May-13 14:27:16

I don't think its your responsibility to make him understand it, you've told him why. Further conversations are just him trying to get you to change your mind. I think you need space from each other. Obviously don't stop him from seeing the kids but maybe don't do family stuff together for a while as it will only prolong this difficult stage.

There are many many children who have parents who have separated or divorced from a young age and they grow up fine, I'm one of them!

What I remember is that on the whole my parents worked together to make me happy and never argued in front of me even if they disagreed, the only bad parts I recall are the couple of times my dad involved me in how he felt and that just made me feel guilty - tell your DH he can only damage his relationship with the DC's by doing this. No good can come of it.

Overtiredmum Wed 08-May-13 14:50:10

Just seen my friend over the road, he is asking everyone to spy on me!! sad

mummytime Wed 08-May-13 16:50:10

I would phone the none emergency police number and ask them if this harassment.
I also suggest you phone women's aid for advice.
Asking one person, probably isn't but asking lots of people seems like harassment to me.

wordyBird Wed 08-May-13 16:56:39

It's wrong if he's asking people to spy on you. The verbal abuse is wrong. Over-riding your wishes is very wrong. You need some people on your side to help you overcome this. Are there any friends from work you could ring, even just to talk to?

Have you had any luck with Women's Aid (I know they're very busy).

A man who tries to control you like this is not hurting in the way you would. He will only be afraid of losing a person he can control (you) which is why he's desperately, angrily, trying to take the reins.

Please get some support, Overtired. If it feels too much to do this, pop back to the GP and mention how you're feeling now. brew

OTM, this man is a total prick. He's been abusing you for years. Don't waste sympathy on him. The only reason you didn't tell him to go and fuck himself years ago is because your parents are unreasonable, unpleasant people too. They brought you up to believe that women don't matter, that men must be obeyed and placated, and that as long as your husband doesn't actually beat you he's a 'good' husband and you must submit to him and indulge him and regard him as your lord and master. All of this is bullshit.
He has no rights over you at all. You are not property. He is not legally or morally entitled to 'control the situation' because you are a human being and you can decide to end the marriage without his permission or co-peration. Sending you abusive texts and asking people to spy on you is against the law and he can be put firmly in his place by police and court orders. Women's Aid will help you. They will know that this is not your fault, none of it is your fault, and they will give you the strategies to keep him out of the house.

Tortoiseontheeggshell Thu 09-May-13 02:43:25

Overtired, you need to stop trying to make him hear you. He's not going to, because he doesn't like what you have to say.

Please please PLEASE listen to all of us and go and see a solicitor. Today.

Overtiredmum Thu 09-May-13 08:04:22

I'm making an appointment today, also arranging to get the house valued, he needs to see i mean business doesnt he?

wordyBird Thu 09-May-13 12:58:39

Yes, he does - everyone needs to see you mean business.
Good luck!

Overtiredmum Fri 10-May-13 14:48:20

estate agent coming at half 4, instigated by him shock
solicitor next week but not told him yet, want something in writing for dc x been signed off for another week but really missing work now. going to treat myself to lunch on my own tomorrow while he has dc xx

Don't tell him your plans, just proceed with them. This is the type of man who is likely to ramp up and become dangerous. If he does do anything scary or uses any kind of force then involve the police. Remember that your STBXH is not your friend, not your partner, he considers himself your owner and as such is more of an enemy.

Overtiredmum Fri 10-May-13 23:16:04

so, house valued and he still don't get it sad

Overtiredmum Sat 11-May-13 10:05:01

hes expecting to move back in today, i just feel sick. sad

Meery Sat 11-May-13 10:12:34

Must be horrible for you - but PLEASE find some of that resolve that has got you so far and DO NOT LET THIS HAPPEN!

Have a word with the local police station on the non-emergency number. Tell them you have separated, that he is living somewhere else and that he is wanting to move back in against your wishes. Unfortunately, it may not be possible to prevent him from doing so without a court order to keep him away, and unless there is evidence of violence you won't get one immediately. However, if you have already logged with the police that you are concerned about him, they will respond more quickly if he becomes aggressive or troublesome.
Also, make yourself clear to him that the marriage is over, and that if he insists on moving back in you will be civil to him, you will not be cooking or washing for him and that you will be sleeping in separate rooms. Again, any aggressive behaviour, verbal abuse etc from him - call the police. He is not in charge of the situation, he cannot force you to remain married to him. This is particularly true if he tries to force you to have sex.

Overtiredmum Sun 12-May-13 07:53:07

well he came back sad kids are playing up again but he seems to be favouring ds over dd which is horrible confused i plan to view some houses this weel and am working on our house with a view to getting it on market xxxxx

OK, just grit your teeth and get through it day by day as you progress with your plans. THis man cannot prevent you from ending the marriage. Hold that thought. Don't be drawn into any discussion about trying again, or suggestions that you are being unreasonable, just calmly repeat 'The marriage is over, there is nothing to discuss, you will be hearing from my solicitor.'

And I'm not terribly surprised he's favouring DS over DD. This is a man who thinks women are inferior to men.

Hi OTM, have just read whole thread and am sorry for what you are going through.

How on earth your H and your M think they can make you do what they want by simply bullying and threatening and trying to scare you, beggars belief.

I think it is time for gloves off now! His recent behaviour has probably only made you more determined to end your marriage ironically. Just get on and divorce him.

As for your mother, who clearly has her own issues, I would want to say "I am your daughter, and as my mother I ask you to support and help me instead of trying to plot with the h I don't love how to keep me in a situation I don't want to be in. It would be so much more appropriate if your loyalties lay with me. If you are unable to understand this and simply be a mother to me, then please back off"

Remember, when you feel that crippling fear for the future, that both your mother's and husband's voices are chipping away at you. They are trying to frighten you to stop you doing what you want to do. Don't let their efforts work!

Very best of luck thanks

Whatalotofpiffle Sun 12-May-13 12:18:31

My parents split when I was 6. Best thing that they could have done. You've done the right thing

Overtiredmum Sun 12-May-13 18:54:42

am done, mother shown true colours x

wordyBird Sun 12-May-13 21:29:21

What happened? How are you now?

Overtiredmum Sun 12-May-13 21:57:03

first prize goes to "toxic" x

TerrysNo2 Sun 12-May-13 23:41:28

otm what's happening, are you OK? I hope you are getting some rl support from somewhere.

wordyBird Mon 13-May-13 00:23:06

Hope you get some sleep otm. Whatever's happened.
I'm guessing you can't talk much at the moment. We are still here when you want us. brew

Overtiredmum Mon 13-May-13 11:00:51

i will explain but need to log on computer x

Overtiredmum Mon 13-May-13 13:09:47

Ok, here goes, I need to get this down, so please bear with me.

You will know from earlier that I mentioned my parents marital problems over the years. Both were married before and both had a daughter, one who I was brought up with, who I have a bad relationship with, the other is my DF daughter and have never met.

Growing up I knew she existed, but he only ever had a relationship with her when he was away from home. I have spoken to her once when I was about 8, when she called the home to ask to speak to him.

Anyway, to yesterday, parents were turning up briefly to see the kids. Perfectly normal visit, I was in kitchen cooking dinner. Went through to the lounge to see H and M with heads together and when they saw me they moved. She then starts with asking whether H was back living at the house, to which I said yes, he has moved back for the sake of the children, but for nothing more.

She then proceeds to tell me that I should put my feelings to one side for the sake of the children and had I actually asked them what they wanted?! I said no, they are too young to really understand, although H has already done that, I told her that and I said DS wants him here, DD doesn't, to which she replied "Well they are only children!" So one minute she wants me to ask, then I am to ignore what they say anyway?! I went on to say that as long as the DC were happy, which they are, then I do not feel my decision has had a detrimental effect on them.

So, not being happy with that, she proceeds to tell me that I had ruined her life, because as an 8 year old I begged her to let my dad come back and that as an 8 year old I had ruined my dad's relationship with his daughter????????? So she firmly believes it was all my fault?! Even my H was shocked at her words of spite towards me.

I left the room and sat in the kitchen, to which all I could hear was her saying SHE needed to know what my decision was, and SHE needed this that and the other and SHE love my H and she can't understand me!!

She then came out and asked why I am not talking to her, to which I said because of the vile text messages she sent, I decided to distance myself from her and that she needed to stop thinking I was ill, to which she said "Well you do have a problem, you're seeing a counsellor!"

My dad gave me a hug but at no time did he even offer any words of comfort. They quickly left after that, but her parting words to H were "Sorry, I think I've just made it worse for you!" No, oh I think I have just broken my daughters heart, nothing!!

I left the house just after, needed to walk and clear my head. Must have looked an idiot sobbing as I walked the streets, ended up in a pub with a glass of wine so I could call my mate.

Am heartbroken, but now my darling sis has jumped on the bandwagon, spilling vile abuse at me because I refuse to talk to her.

I appreciate thoughts/comments on this. I feel I may be over-exagerating, but how can you blame an 8 year old, 30 years later, at ruining your life?! I remember her sitting me down on her bed and asking me if I wanted to live with her or my dad, because I said I didn't know, she didn't talk to me for days?!! And yet she expects me to do the same to my DC, I have to ignore my feelings of unhappiness to stay with a man I don't love?

I need to cut ties don't I? I have told H that if they want to see DC, then he can take them to him but she is not coming here doing that in front of my children?! DD has been calling nanny a witch all morning, so she really does understand everything that she said to me yesterday.

Can I get over this? H was really surprised and text me today to say he hated seeing the pain and heartache I went through last night, that he realises they have been bullying me and is prepared to sell the house. Time will tell how much of that is true xxx

Snazzynewyear Mon 13-May-13 13:35:50

Your family sound awful and yes I would cut ties with them. Block their numbers and if they call round again don't let them in and say you are not interested in hearing what they say to you. I wouldn't let the DC go round there either for the moment - again, say they were upset by what was being said to you so you can't have them hearing that sort of thing again, therefore no contact.

At least if your H is now prepared to sell the house then something has been gained. Try to get moving on that asap.

Overtiredmum Mon 13-May-13 14:44:07

just feel heartbroken sad

fubbsy Mon 13-May-13 15:01:35

Oh overtired that is terrible sad I don't have any advice, but can hold your hand, if you want.

How rotten for you. But at least your H may start behaving reasonably about the divorce - I suggest taking advantage of his current sympathetic mood to get things moving, as he may well turn difficult again soon.

wordyBird Mon 13-May-13 19:59:00

I'm so sorry Overtired...

Yes, your mum is toxic, or she sounds it. None of what she says makes sense, especially if you try to make her pronouncements fit those of a caring, reasonable mother.

If you see her motivation as solely to attack and undermine you, it makes sense. It works like this: everything you say is automatically wrong, and everything is your fault, even if you were 8 at the time. Ridiculous!

Now I know that I've only pointed out the obvious here: but from personal experience, sometimes you need an outsider to verify that it really is this bad.

So yes, it's time to create distance between you and your mum. It will only harm you to keep hearing her nonsense. Same with the angry sister. sad

Keep going with your plans Overtired.... the heartbreak will lessen, though it is very raw just now. I do share SolidGold's view that you have a good opportunity to move things along while your H is being more co operative.

thecatfromjapan Mon 13-May-13 21:27:43

Your mother is - and I am genuinely sorry about this - completely bonkers.

There was nothing, absolutely nothing, rational in what she did in your living room.

She almost gave you an object lesson in exactly why one doesn't ask children to decide extremely fucking serious stuff when you are the adult. Because a. they are too involved, but not in a fully informed way b. it's adult stuff that they are not old enough for c, because you probably won't act on their wishes anyway and d. if you do, you'll probably regret it. And if you are your completely strange mother, you will then wait about 25 years before screaming a torrent of resentful abuse at someone you were completely inappropriate towards years ago.

There are actually loads more reasons why you don't ask your children to decide this sort of stuff - the above list is really only a starter.

The way she is dealing with your husband is just a weeny bit flirty towards him/abusive towards you.

You know, more and more I think that a lot of what is going on with you is perhaps about your relationship with your mother. She is very angry with you, isn't she?

I don't know what's going on with your sister. I do think you may have to look further afield than your immediate family for support, though.

Anyway, I'm going to send you affection, across the internet. Good luck, my dear.

Overtiredmum Thu 16-May-13 08:51:23

Well M text H yesterday to see if he is ok. Said she would apologise but she would never mean it. I'm done with my family sad xx

Snazzynewyear Thu 16-May-13 09:30:21

You're better off without this person in your life. Really. So are your kids.
Any movement on the house?

Overtiredmum Thu 16-May-13 13:37:10

We are both looking at rental properties and this house should be on market in next few weeks

Overtiredmum Thu 16-May-13 22:10:34

bump

TerrysNo2 Thu 16-May-13 22:20:15

That sounds positive otm.

how are you feeling?

Overtiredmum Thu 16-May-13 22:28:31

Totally drained but weirdly excited? x

TerrysNo2 Thu 16-May-13 22:45:13

that's good grin

I hope things will start to get easier for you.

I am so so angry at your mother, do not let her get you down, it's a shame she is not there for you but you are doing great anyway!

wordyBird Thu 16-May-13 23:40:14

Weirdly excited is good!

..The offer of an insincere apology just adds insult to injury, doesn't it. Why do they do that? Still....with each day away from your mum, you will reduce the toxicity quotient in your life, and gain some much needed strength. Keep facing forward

Overtiredmum Fri 17-May-13 21:38:51

am tired, he wants to come to Relate sad

wordyBird Fri 17-May-13 22:09:37

Let him go there on his own. Not with you.

MrsTomHardy Fri 17-May-13 22:32:28

I wouldn't advise going to Relate with this man either

Overtiredmum Sun 19-May-13 09:24:01

feel like i go roumd in circles most days x

Overtiredmum Mon 20-May-13 07:00:55

so H spent most of last night slamming around thr house sulkong at my refusal to have sex. he had a go at ds telling him.to grow up cos he vried in shower xx

TerrysNo2 Mon 20-May-13 10:01:39

otm I don't think you should let this man in the house, you need to get space from him. if he wants to see the DCs he can take them out.

stay strong smile

Why on earth should you allow this man to have sex on you? You are divorcing him. If you think he might escalate to forcing you, then it's time for another chat with the police and WA on ways to remove him from the house. He has no rights at all over you, remember that.

TotallyBursar Mon 20-May-13 11:59:54

Otm just caught up with your thread.

I think you join the legion of us that were set up & sent out like lambs to slaughter by parents with significant issues of their own. Sadly I wasn't surprised to read the evolution in behaviour of your mother and Stbxh. I read your initial description of him with a raised eyebrow & wondered how many pages it would take to see the truth.

First off please listen to SGB you owe him nothing now, really you don't. This latest behaviour is a blatant reminder of who he really is - he's turned on the dc now too, his favourite no less. Police and WA will be able to protect & support you please don't hesitate to call if you have even the slightest concern.

Secondly, I want to tell you sincerely how amazing you have been. You are making your voice heard in the face of a toxic family, a controlling H and the way that made you feel - that is so hard but you did it, are doing it and will continue to be the voice you & the DC need. That is something to be proud of. I am rooting for you so hard. Keep one foot in front of the other.
It does get much better than this.
I hope once the hurt heals some you will feel the difference everyday that removing your mother from your life will make, very much her loss. I hope you can enjoy that freedom and relief you felt before when H was gone and keep on feeling it without your mother being involved & being the internal voice that's as welcome as a bowl of cold sick.
You deserve so much more.
I can offer little more than moral support but I hope every little helps x

DIYapprentice Mon 20-May-13 12:20:46

Oh OTM - that all sounds so horrible!

I'm glad you have cut your 'D'M off. She sounds very toxic.

Have you thought of alternatives to childcare? A cross between an au pair and a nanny, someone live in, would work perfectly for you if you have a spare room. That way you wouldn't be relying on your H for childcare and would give you the freedom to just get him out and away.

If he had his own place and you 'shared' care, then that would make it even more affordable as they would spend 1 or 2 days and evenings a week with him and you wouldn't need to arrange childcare for those days. However he needs to realise that you can manage just fine without him, and that these arrangements are to suit you BOTH and not just to make your life easier, before he would play ball by the sounds of it.

Overtiredmum Mon 20-May-13 13:08:46

i have no room.for an au paor, may be an optiom when i move i guess. H has made an appointment to see solicitor. He firmly thinks cos i won't have sex i must be getting it else where, which is hilarious! When would i have time?! I'm either with dc durong day or worling in the evening

DOn't engage with him in discussing sex. Just repeat: THis marriage is over, so there's nothing to discuss, and walk away. Again: any aggressive behaviour from him should be reported and logged. He really is a shitbag, so don't feel guilty.

Overtiredmum Mon 20-May-13 13:52:49

If I'm honest I am.using this thread as my diary of thoughts and feelings, hope thats ok. back to work tonight after 3 weeks off

TotallyBursar Mon 20-May-13 17:35:44

This is your thread, you can use it however it works best for you. Everyone here is here for you and will be led by you. That sentence made me feel like I was about to breakout in some Abba...apologies, I def will not be singing at you.

As it's nearly half five I guess you are already at work. I know you missed it, be kind to yourself & good luck for re-entry.

It will only take a cursory look at threads here to see he is not an original thinker & you can suss exactly what he's up to. One thing you have that he doesn't have and can't bully or buy is MN - there is nothing new under the sun. Someone here will have the t-shirt & be able to see you through his shenanigans.
Take care tonight.

Overtiredmum Mon 20-May-13 17:54:54

Well I'm at work and if I'm honest all I can think of is my babies. DD reacted horrendously when I left, clinging on for dear life, and when i called her she just sobbed sad

I've also realised that DS needs to dress for World Day tomorrow, needs to dress to represent a country? Any help gratefully received?!

I am really hoping that work will come to my salvation this week and offer me a day position very very soon, at least that way I can start to think longterm. The house needs to go on the market, look for somewhere to rent, start building a new life for me. I hate to think that my decision will harm the DC with having to split time between me and H, but I can see no other way round it. I hate to think that I have hurt H, I have never given him chance to fight for the marriage sad

I need to think positive, I know that, but its so hard x

Overtiredmum Mon 20-May-13 20:05:07

Bumping

fusspot66 Mon 20-May-13 22:12:08

What about a white school shirt and school pinafore or skirt, impeccably ironed with a cub/scout neckerchief just like the African children who walk miles to school in the searing heat.
Sorry its so late! I'm a lurker who didn't get why you were bumping till now

Overtiredmum Tue 21-May-13 07:34:55

boringly hes goong dressed in colours of french flag. Good positive start to the day ..... x

fusspot66 Tue 21-May-13 08:16:26

Voila ! Mum pulls another miracle from a hat!

Overtiredmum Tue 21-May-13 08:21:25

grin xx

Overtiredmum Tue 21-May-13 10:45:08

so far today i have killed the washing machine, broken my toilet seat and found proof that H was very involved on M verbal assault on me. Onwards and upwards smile

Overtiredmum Tue 21-May-13 19:04:50

Well not really a bad day in all, apart from the washing machine, so an expensive day - just wondering whether the new replacement will become part of the custody battle?! grin At least I can joke about it all today!

Not really spoken to H much today, not really had a need to. His parents are visiting at the moment, so that could all change I guess? DD is struggling with me being back at work, but I am still hopeful that my work will offer me a position on days, which will help enormously, I just want to be home to be able to tuck them in and cook dinner for them and stuff.

No news from M. H swears she hasn't been in contact with him, but I do not believe that for one minute. But I am reaching a stage where I do not care. The heartache she has caused me, I don't think she can ever repair that, I look at DC and feel so sad for them, I don't want my actions to mean they cannot have a relationship with their grandparents.

Sometimes I feel physically sick at the thought of the future. At the thought of no relationship with my parents, the thought of times apart from DC and the lonely evenings on my own. I hate that I've never really given H the opportunity to repair the relationship, having been unhappy for so long, but I also know I can't repair that hurt for him.

But at the same time I relish the future, what it might hold for me.

Someone give me a hug?? blush

LisaMed Tue 21-May-13 19:14:29

No concrete advice but sending lots and lots and lots of hugs, as well as a great deal of respect after all you have managed to deal with.

Overtiredmum Tue 21-May-13 19:20:55

So many "what-if's" flying around in my head, best not to them though, right?

Homebird8 Tue 21-May-13 20:25:44

I didn't want you to think you are talking to yourself OTM! I'm listening and I think you're making some great decisions. You are not stopping your DCs having a relationship with wonderful grandparents, you are protecting them from spending their childhood in confusion and their adulthood trying to make sense of it. Well done.

wordyBird Tue 21-May-13 21:00:53

((Hug))

It's amazing how the mechanical stuff seems to pack up, just when we are having a tough time psychologically.

Please don't feel your H hasn't had a chance to repair the relationship. Looking at your OP again...You told us you spent whole days crying, and that your DD was comforting you. What did your husband do while you were so unhappy? And when you told him you'd had enough, all he did was tell you he wouldn't leave the home and that you needed to learn family values! shock.

His chance came and went long ago. Let him hurt a bit, you've been hurting long enough OTM.

Overtiredmum Tue 21-May-13 21:22:06

I know, but it doesn't stop me from feeling guilty. What if the decisions I make now prove to be wrong? What if I do end up hurting my DC more than if I just stay put?

I feel bad because if he were honest with himself, I don't think I've been making him happy for a long time, but he refuses to see that and I can't make him. I feel like I am letting everyone down.

I have hardly anyone left really in RL, just a few friends. One of my closest has sided with H and the others are keeping a safe distance, which I understand.

Overtiredmum Tue 21-May-13 21:23:41

Oh damn it! Have felt pretty good today, why now do I start to feel crap?! I need to cheer myself up!

Been looking at rental places, but not much point at the moment, until the house can go on the market. Agents seem confident they can sell within 2 weeks hmm

Homebird8 Wed 22-May-13 01:48:31

What if the decisions I make now prove to be wrong?

For a start you'll never know. You will only know reality as you choose and experience it. In your shoes I would be weighing a happy mummy against confusion caused by an emotionally messy home life (comforting you...) and a grandparent trying to undermine the person most important to the DCs (you).

Now, once again, you are kind and caring and considerate and have all the support of MN around you.

Damash12 Wed 22-May-13 02:44:06

Hi op. I am in exactly the same situation and no exactly how you feel. I have told my H this weekend that I can't do this anymore and want to separate. He is very angry at the moment but won't take any responsibility for why I feel this way. I have felt like this for 3 years, desperately wanting my feelings to change back to a time when we where so happy but they haven't and I have spent hours/ days/months with a churned up stomach, brain on loop "I'm not happy, I've got to do something" I've been to counselling to find out if it's just a fear if commitment but the end if the day I know deep down it's because the love has gone and it's gone because my husband treats me like shit. Nothing major- won't talk, criticises everything I do, won't go out for a pub lunch EVER, tells me to hurry up while shopping, on my back 24/7 but tells me to lighten up etc. anyway, it's come to an head and I can't do it anymore but my worry is the dc's. I am soooo scared of hurting my 4.5 year Ds. Please feel free to inbox me op, maybe we can support each other!

TotallyBursar Wed 22-May-13 03:11:00

Why is this on your shoulders OTM?

What did the councillor say when you were discussing things? You said she told you you are taking on the whole blame and it takes two.
In my purely armchair opinion you are bringing it all to the table here, everything you internalised from your parents, all the views of your H - people that should be but aren't your friends. Have they ever given you a voice?

It can be tempting not to let the scales fall from one's eyes. It's scary, it feels like a betrayal (of you and by you) and leaves us feeling vulnerable and with some of our memories a lie. From personal experience the best thing I ever did was go no contact. My children were used, the relationship harmed them so that priviledge (and it is not a right) was withdrawn too.
It is for the best though, you don't have to be unhappy, you don't deserve it, your children don't deserve it and you can change it.
I'm sorry he's hurting - but he's had more time and chances than many to do his part in changing things and he hasn't. When you were honest with him what did he do?
When are you seeing your councillor next? I hope you continue to find her helpful.
Good work on the French flag by the way!

Damash12 - I'm sorry you're in the same situation, have you got your own thread? It's not a necessity but can be very helpful, the MN peeps are great thanks

Overtiredmum Wed 22-May-13 08:25:57

thank you everyone. just feel like i'm at a turning point, need to take the final steps but scared of taking it sad taking myself off for a walk today, blow some cobwebs x

Overtiredmum Wed 22-May-13 17:39:00

Pleasant day - cobwebs blown, went for a nice coastal walk, bit chilly but definitely what I needed and then went and had a nice lunch on my own in a pub and read my book.

DC are both at school tomorrow too but need to concentrate on touching up and clearing the clutter from the house, hopefully I can start to think about getting it on the market.

H going to view a house on Saturday afternoon, and is apparently seeing a solicitor Tuesday to start divorce proceedings. Only time will tell wink

I really do want to thank everyone on here, holding my hand and making me realise that maybe I can do this, and this is right for me, and in the longrun the DC. Please stay with me though, this is probably my loneliest time at the moment!

MN at their finest! Thank you!

TotallyBursar Wed 22-May-13 18:02:53

You can do it. You are never alone here either! I've had people hold my hand at 5am, 3pm, midnight you name it.
What I love about relationships is everyone gets on your team, sometimes the only thing that's kept me sane is knowing there is someone here who will talk to me, wait for me to stop crying or cheer for me.

Glad you had a good day, it's so windy here I thought my eyelids would flip inside out, no wonder it felt bracing and got rid of the cobwebs! Ooh pub lunch :drool:, what did you have? <nosey>

I'm glad things seem to be moving in the right direction, be hopeful but keep your boundaries. It isn't beyond the realms that he is giving your chain a little tug, before reneging and trying a further assault when he thinks you're more vulnerable. Lets hope not. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst and all that!

Decluttering is good for the soul...bad for the back though but hey ho!

Overtiredmum Wed 22-May-13 18:10:21

It was nothing exciting really, a nice Wetherspoon pub on the front, chicken strips with bbq glaze, chips and coleslaw - and a very small glass of pinot grin

I am under no illusions at all that H will try and pull the rug from under me, yet again, but I just need to stay strong.

Even have an evening out planned Saturday with a good friend and a bottle of wine!

TotallyBursar Wed 22-May-13 18:24:46

Nothing exciting? BBQ glazed chicken, fat golden chips and coleslaw... And a wee tot of Pinot, nothing exciting she says! A meal in peace envy Very exciting!

You do need to stay strong, and you will. Being prepared and keeping your eyes peeled is hard when you feel low but sunshiney times are on the horizon.

Saturday night on the razz, excellent choice. Good friend, good wine and big glasses who could ask for a better one?

wordyBird Wed 22-May-13 19:10:23

You sound a mile better OTM. smile

You can do this! your DC will thank you for it too in the long run. Keep facing forward, it's going to get easier as time goes on flowers

Overtiredmum Wed 22-May-13 20:43:32

Definitely onwards and upwards. One day at a time ......

I couldn't have got this far without the support of everyone on here though, so a massive thank you.

Overtiredmum Fri 24-May-13 20:28:39

Had a pleasant few days - bank holiday and half term next week - wonder what I have to look forward to??

Been back at work a week now, no major dramas but the exhaustion is already setting in after getting no more than about 6 hours a night. DD and DS are usually curled up in my bed waiting for me when I get home, which is lovely, but quite a squish for the night. I never realised how much DS thrashed around in his sleep - for a few mornings I woke up feeling like I'd been in a fight! grin And he loves a sing-song in his sleep, although I already knew that!

Am still waiting for work to come back with a day position for me, just got to sit that one out for now, nothing can really start happening until then. Am looking at rentals, but til I change shifts and sell the house, I'm still very much stuck.

H is supposed to be viewng a place tomorrow, and he still has his solicitors appointment on Tuesday, although I still wonder if he is using these as a smoke screen.

No news from M. She did text the other day - it just said "How are the kids?" which spoke volumes really - nothing since, and obviously I didn't respond. H swears he has had no contact with her, but to be honest, I don't care. Neither of them want to listen to what I actually need. If they were honest, they would have to admit that since being a mum, I have never made a bad decision which concerned the DCs, but I guess they never will admit that.

Off out tomorrow evening with a DF for a bottle of wine and a natter - can't wait!

So nothing much else to report. I have been trying to update, but my phone is rubbish and the MN system appears to keep going offline. I'm sure I'll be in touch at some point over the weekend with need for advice and an MN hug!

Thank you xx

wordyBird Sat 25-May-13 00:16:17

You sound better still, OTM, despite the sleep deprivation! All in a good cause though.

And distancing yourself from your M has given you a much needed breathing space, it seems: you seem much more confident in your decisions, and much less upset by the shenanigans between her and your H.

You're doing brilliantly wine. Hope your weekend goes well

TotallyBursar Sat 25-May-13 19:40:22

Totally agree with Wordybird.

If you were my DD I would be so proud of you & how you are handling things.
I am nc with my abusive parents, after initial relief, then struggles, then fog now I just feel so free. It's great.

Enjoy tonight!

Lostwithoutacompass Sat 25-May-13 20:36:56

Hi OTM, I have been following your thread closely and actually reread it a few times as I seem to feel exactly the same way as you do about your husband and marriage.

I had a horrible conversation with my mum earlier this week where she basically told me that my dad had been an awful husband (they divorced) and that I was lucky to have a lovely husband etc and that I should remember that I "have a committment to have these children that I chose to have"... I told her we had to agree that we had different views on the matter and that I would no longer talk to her about it but I cried for two days over that crappy phone call. Clearly if no dc were involved it would be a no brainer separation so she really has missed the whole bloody point!

My DH has worked away from home most of this week and whilst three dc versus me has been really knackering, I have been so much happier in myself and its been great. When he came back tonight I just went back into myself and feel utterly miserable. I've started talking about sleeping in separate rooms and it feels like the right move but every little step feels like such a massive one because I know how anti he is about all this.

Didnt want to follow your very honest posts without posting myself. I am watching on the sidelines a few steps behind but cheering you on nonetheless, you are doing really well. x

Lostwithoutacompass Sat 25-May-13 20:37:51

Grr, meant "commitment to these children that I chose to have"..

Overtiredmum Mon 27-May-13 22:15:55

all going wrong xxx

wordyBird Mon 27-May-13 23:11:52

Sorry to hear that... what happened?

Overtiredmum Tue 28-May-13 19:15:55

I spent my whole day painting yesterday, just freshening up sticky/dirty finger prints, and achieved loads. His parents turned up and I even cooked them a roast, was nice to have their company. Then I curled up on the sofa, DS played on the computer and H went into a strop because "our marriage is in ruins, and you're watching telly?" I promptly went to bed sad

I wish I could say things are getting better, but I honestly don't think they are. I seem to take a few pigeon steps forward, and then a massive leap backwards.

DCs are doing great, although nothing has really changed yet. I need to change my shift to get back on days, then sell the house so I can clear most of our debts, and try and establish some kind of future for the DCs and me.

Today H went to see a solicitor. He didn't really say much, I said he didn't have to tell me what was said, but if the DC were discussed, then I had a right to know. He said they discussed the cost of divorce. He said the situation was explained to solicitor, the DC were mentioned about access/custody etc, and he said solicitor felt I was being more than fair with arrangements I have suggested. I think whats next really is a separation agreement, as he seems to have been put off the divorce route right now due to the cost - ha ha ha!!

I am at the moment upset most about my parents and their reaction to me. But even worse, H told me tonight that mother has text him asking if they can see the children tomorrow, knowing full well I will be at work. He has agreed and I hate that, but theres nothing I can do about it at all. I want no relationship with her at the moment. I have warned H though that in no way is she to belittle me in front of my DC, I won't have that. I've asked him not to discuss the situation with them either, but I fully expect him to tell them, make out like I am entirely to blame.

So, I'm sort of stuck in limbo - no way forward but I will never go back, I know that.

Overtiredmum Tue 28-May-13 19:22:11

Lostwithoutacompass. Thank you for posting. Sorry you are going through the same. I am terrified of what the future will hold, I am scared of it going horribly wrong and I have to admit I made a mistake. But then how can it be a mistake if I am unhappy now?

Time without H is such a relief, I feel a nervous wreck when we're together, because I just don't know what he will say next.

I am dreading what will be said tomorrow whilst my parents visit, and just the fact that they have asked to visit WITHOUT me being there, speaks volumes really, doesn't it?

But, I guess if I can get through this on my own, I've proved my point?

Overtiredmum Tue 28-May-13 20:19:39

Can you just imagine the venom M will spill tomorrow night?! I swear if she does anything like that, she will not see them again. She's voiced her opinion, I know she will just "fire" H up again sad

Overtiredmum Wed 29-May-13 00:01:06

home to a nice cuddle with dd x

Overtiredmum Wed 29-May-13 06:57:17

Hoping for steps forward today, think i am being overly optimistic sad

Meery Wed 29-May-13 07:20:38

Optimism is good. You just hold onto that positivity dear girl.

Overtiredmum Wed 29-May-13 09:08:14

just dread what M will have to say behind my back. I'm 38 FFS why do they make me feel like a child sad

Overtiredmum Wed 29-May-13 17:51:08

Sitting at work, just wondering what the repurcussions of M visit will be tonight. DD has been walking around all day saying she doesn't like nanny and I just feel sick and anxious, I know full well that she will spend the time spouting toxic nonsense. I guess at least this time I don't need to listen to it, but then neither should me babies. sad

wordyBird Wed 29-May-13 19:27:51

Sorry you are going through this OTM. You can't really control what happens tonight, all you can do is try to calmly deal with the outcome. Or at least, try to put on a calm front.

You said that time without your H is such a relief, which is something important to think of when you wobble. Life won't always be as stressful as this, but as with an illness ...it might get worse before it gets better.

You are getting there, day by day flowers

Overtiredmum Fri 31-May-13 20:42:05

Hoping the weekend is straightforward. Estate agent has been instructed, still painting and stuff, but hoping the house will be on the market in the next couple of weeks.

Dare I be optimistic? grin

Overtiredmum Sun 02-Jun-13 09:40:09

So i won't have sex, which means I'm having an affair. Apparently it is impossible to just go off sex angry

OTM, you have dumped this man because you don't want to be his wife any more. Because he's been a rotten husband to you. It's totally reasonable not to want to let someone who is unpleasant to you stick his dick in you.His opinions don't matter. He is not 'right'. It's perfectly all right to bin him and disregard what he says, because he has not been a good husband.

Overtiredmum Mon 03-Jun-13 20:24:04

I'm trying to keep the situation amicable and calm for the DCs, and its so hard. He gets arsey when I won't have sex, tonight, yet again, I've refused to share the bed with him, he gets arsey with that. I've told him to just do what is best for him now in terms of where he lives, divorce and all that, he then back tracks and asks if when I'm happy I will give it another go with him?! Its like he is trying to call my bluff, all the time sad

Vivacia Tue 04-Jun-13 20:34:49

Would it be a good idea making a list of what topics are up for discussion (eg the children, the washing machine) and therefore that all others are not? Who you sleep with is no longer any of his business. If its not on the list you don't get in to a conversation. You could have a stock reply "I'm not discussing that with you" and repeat if necessary.

As for your mother, I would treat her as your children's grandmother and nothing more for now.

Vivacia Tue 04-Jun-13 20:36:00

In fact your mum can have an even shorter list.

Overtiredmum Tue 04-Jun-13 20:59:17

I have heard absolutely nothing more from M since her visit last week. Can't say that I miss anything she has to say to be honest.

We are still going round in circles, H said to be tonight he that "will not be my doormat"! To which I replied "I wasn't aware that you were, I thought I had been a very good wife up until now, so cheers". Have also told him we are just going round in circles - which we are sad

Had a wobbly day, he seems to think I will let him walk away with everything financially, I am going to start drawing up a separation agreement.

I like the idea of a list - he won't stick to it though.

On the plus side - agent coming out next week to take photos and I saw a house that I might go and view grin

Overtiredmum Tue 04-Jun-13 21:18:10

My birthday is next Thursday - gonna be a lonely old day for me, both DC are school, then they come home and I'll go to work sad

Vivacia Tue 04-Jun-13 21:27:31

I didn't mean you let him know about the list. But it should help you stick to business. For instance, your qualities as a wife would not be on the list. It's not up for discussion.

Vivacia Tue 04-Jun-13 21:28:56

As for your birthday, it doesn't have to be sad. Treat yourself to something different. Can you find an hour to try somewhere new for lunch?

Overtiredmum Tue 04-Jun-13 21:33:16

Thanks Vivacia, I see what you mean. Yes I could try that re the list! I'll try anything at the moment sad

Yes I may try that for my birthday, am going out Saturday evening on my own as all my good friends are busy, and as DS birthday is a few days after mine, I'm going shopping for the evening to buy him some presents, and probably find somewhere quiet for a spot of dinner.

Vivacia Tue 04-Jun-13 21:35:50

Yep, don't be sad about having a quiet birthday. It's easy to think everyone else's birthdays are full of fun and family and friends and surprise parties. They're not. Or at least, mine aren't(!)

Overtiredmum Tue 04-Jun-13 21:51:15

Always just assumed it was a sign I was getting old! I'll be 39 next week, and starting life all over again - scary but I'll do it! grin

babadabadoo Tue 04-Jun-13 22:23:42

this is so sad, just seeing this thread for the first time. im so sorry you are going through all of us but i also worry you are doing the right thing. your husband sounds like he is willing to jump through hoops to make this worse. you both sound like you are in complete anguish about how you will survive once you separate. if i was in your position i think i would look again at my marriage, change my job to day job and try and rediscover why you married in the first place. sorry if im going against the grain here but it sounds like your children are starting to experience exactly what you experienced as a child, especially your dd. i read a lot of topics on here but this one has me choked. i hope you have thought everything through, the whole family sounds in pain.

babadabadoo Tue 04-Jun-13 22:24:34

* work!

Overtiredmum Tue 04-Jun-13 22:31:00

Thanks for your comments, but yes I am stuck in limbo at the moment as I am waiting for my employers to offer me a day position. I am fully aware that my job has been instrumental in the collapse of my marriage but I do not feel there is any going back now

Overtiredmum Tue 04-Jun-13 22:46:31

I do feel I am making the right decisions for me and DC x

babadabadoo Tue 04-Jun-13 22:49:26

good luck otm

Overtiredmum Wed 05-Jun-13 17:31:19

Today has been draining. He seems to have moved on to a new "audience" of people he works with, and they have fired him up again. We had a blazing row in which again I had to tell him I am so unhappy and do not want to be in the marriage no more. His last stinging comment to be was "I've sacrificed alot for your job".

From my very first message on here asking for advice, I have said that my job has effectively ruined my marriage - spending no time together, apart from the odd 5 minutes as we passed each other through the front door BUT I have had to work. I had a choice to make - work days and give all my wages to a childminder or work evenings, have a decent wage and spend time my days bringing up the kids before they were old enough for school and running the house "like clockwork".

So thats the decision I made, I'm not saying it has been easy for him, having to spend his evenings on his own BUT to throw it in my face now I think is unfair. I have never thrown it in his face, that I earn considerably more than him, one of the perks to the sacrifice I had to make having a 20 hour day, but I never saw him complain when he was spending my wages sad

Thats my whinge for tonight - sorry sad

wordyBird Wed 05-Jun-13 17:48:38

You're not whinging, OTM. He's acting like a bully, and his comment is a meaningless excuse.

Since you've done the work, brought up the children and kept house, and yet still found yourself the target of aggression, it seems to me that you have done all the sacrificing. You deserve some peace of mind now.

Vivacia Wed 05-Jun-13 18:37:39

Unless you enjoy it, there is no need to get in to a row, blazing or otherwise. I wouldn't engage bit save my energy for what sounds like a very tiring time.

jan5 Wed 05-Jun-13 21:09:06

You are young enough to both have new, happier lives with other partners and young children adapt quickly. If you give it time and see the counsellor maybe you will be able to decide -
Are you actually just exhausted
or
do you need to leave because there is no possibility of working things out.
My husband wants a trial separation after 30 years - if you feel the same way do it now while you have many years left to find new happiness. Good luck, I know it is hard.

Overtiredmum Fri 07-Jun-13 21:07:33

Another weekend looms ahead - I used to look forward to them, now I just dread them. H had the day off work today, to open a bank account, and continue the decorating. I managed to stay out of the house 90% of the time.

Am looking forward to tomorrow evening though. DS birthday is fast approaching so I am going on a little shopping trip, all on my own, probably about 5pm, Toys R Us for a couple of things he really wants, and then a walk around the shopping centre. I'm going to dress myself up abit and may even try and find somewhere for a spot of dinner, I don't like eating alone but I am getting quite comfortable in my own company.

Had a text from M tonight, not asking how I or the kids are, just telling me about my dad. He needs to have an operation to stop him from going blind. He has been told today that they cannot put him to sleep cos of his health and medication, so he has to decide whether he can have the operation or go blind. I feel awful, and like I should be there for him - but like he has for me? confused

H is still doing usual tricks. Last few days have been OK, seemed quite accepting of it all, but I do think he is still just trying to call my bluff xxx

If he is still pestering for sex, say 'But I am divorcing you and will never be having sex with you again.' and walk away. He's a failure as a husband, and you do not need his permission to get rid of him. Stay strong smile

Overtiredmum Fri 07-Jun-13 21:53:33

He has asked once today, he still seems bewildered that I would say no!!

Vivacia Fri 07-Jun-13 22:01:04

I prefer SolidGoldBrass' suggestion of spelling it out. And repeat.

Regarding your father, how about sending a card to him, letting him know you are thinking of him?

Have you got any counselling arranged? I don't know how you are managing without it.

I hope that you have a lovely time tomorrow afternoon.

Overtiredmum Fri 07-Jun-13 22:25:57

I called Relate - still nothing. Called Gp re the NHS service and low and behold, they have lost the referral paperwork so will go back Monday to collect more shock

I've always been the sort of person to cope in a crisis, I just roll up my sleeves and get on with it. Somewhere along the way that person got lost but oddly I can feel her slowly coming back - thats good, yes??

H has told me I am not allowed to discuss new home with the kids, he says its unfair, but I want them to have a say in where they live, I want them to be excited - does that sound weird?

Vivacia Fri 07-Jun-13 22:30:19

Do you feel excited yourself, about all of the possibilities your new future has?

Overtiredmum Fri 07-Jun-13 22:46:59

Me? Does it sound bad if I say yes? I look at rental places and can see myself living in them and what the future may hold? That makes me sound awful doesn't it?

Vivacia Fri 07-Jun-13 23:13:48

It doesn't sound bad, it sounds exciting. I was worried earlier on in the week that you were folding under the pressure.

Who is the rented house for?

Holly1977 Fri 07-Jun-13 23:33:54

OTM, just read this thread for the first time. Firstly I want to say that I am absolutely in awe of how well you are coping. You are living through a horrendously messy drawn out break up with kids involved and your EX is being an absolute twat. On top of that you have just made the horrible realisation that your mum is a truly horrible person who cares more about herself than you, which is ironic given how she has preached to you about putting your children before you own sanity.

Secondly, if you can afford it, I would highly recommend you getting private counselling. It should be £40 p.hour at most and you'll be able to see someone straight away. I was struck by how much stronger and confident you sounded after your initial session, and how much clearer things seemed to you.

I have been through similar (though nowhere near as bad situations); a messy break up where I had to live with my ex for 6 months and the realisation just recently in my mid 30s that my mum is an absolute bitch and always will be. During both of events I literally would not have made it through without my counsellor. She always talked sense into me when I was at my most distraught, she supported me and helped me to grow strong enough to know my own mind and know what was best for me.

Re your ex, I think the way he has behaved since you broke up confirms that you were right to break up with him. He sounds like an absolute wanker. WTF is he asking you for sex?! You're not together any more, what he is doing is sexual harassment. If he persists in his assertions that you not being interested shows you're shagging someone else, just tell him that you're doing plenty of DIY and are perfectly sexually satisfied thank you very much. (sorry, that might sound a bit flippant). My ex used to interrogate me about sex, whether I was masturbating etc. My counsellor had to drill it into me again and again that it was none of his fucking business! Just like it's none of your "DH" business and he has no right to pester you for sex or guilt trip you for saying no.

I think the quicker you can live apart permanently the better. In your earlier posts you said how much better you AND the kids were when he was gone. Remember that and do what you can to get away from his toxic bullying.

As for your parents, my advice is to just stay away for now. Block her number, just stay away. If something life or death happens she'll be able to contact you if she really needs to. Maybe in time you can get to a better place in your relationship with her (and him) but not now. Your priority has to be looking after you and the kids. Don't let her guilt trip you with stories about your dad being ill, or any of the other tricks she will almost certainly try in the future. She has utterly failed you as a mother in all of this. And your dad is complicit in not standing up to her and the awful horrible shitty horrible things she said to you that day.

Sorry, very long post. Again, you are doing amazingly well. Stay strong, things won't always be as bad as they are right now flowers xxx

Overtiredmum Sat 08-Jun-13 00:10:28

rented house will.be for me and dcs. Its amazing how many friends seem to dodge me in playground these days , but i wwill never go back now, have come too far xx

wordyBird Sat 08-Jun-13 19:22:59

Hope your evening is going well, and that you found something nice for DS.
I know it's still difficult and trying, but you sound much better than you were in your OP. thanks

Overtiredmum Sat 08-Jun-13 21:52:55

h ruined my night. how dare i still be out at 8.30?! He was drunk and i came straight home to look after dc. i was having such a lovely evenin, am heartbroken and so angry at same time. was ok for him to stagger home at 2am last weekend but 8.3, seriously?! what have i done to deserve this?! sad

Overtiredmum Sat 08-Jun-13 21:57:09

dc have dried my tears tonight, this is no life for any of us

Vivacia Sat 08-Jun-13 22:25:58

I'm not too sure what's happened. He was home with the children and begrudged you coming back having had a drink?

Either way, it sounds as though you want things to move quicker. What professional advice and support are you getting?

Overtiredmum Sat 08-Jun-13 22:46:18

i wasnt drinking, he was. i was out buying ds birthday presents, he was with dc x

Vivacia Sat 08-Jun-13 23:02:17

Have you got a time scale for proceeding with the divorce, moving out etc? Have you had professional advice about moving out?

Overtiredmum Sun 09-Jun-13 00:18:16

i am a legal professional believe it or not sad

wordyBird Sun 09-Jun-13 00:50:19

So sorry he spoiled your evening, OTM. Silly, entitled behaviour.
You're right, it's no life for any of you.

Vivacia Sun 09-Jun-13 07:53:19

I meant advice from a legal professional specialising in separation and divorce.
Also, I think you need counselling, someone other than your children to support you and wipe your tears.

I hope that you have a better day today.

Overtiredmum Sun 09-Jun-13 08:23:56

yesterday has made me realise i need help. this is really the only place i can talk

Vivacia Sun 09-Jun-13 09:15:56

I agree with someone earlier who said how positive you sounded after you met with that counsellor before. What's happening with that?

Overtiredmum Sun 09-Jun-13 09:50:00

i am positive, i have made the right choices, sell the house, rent with my babies and change my work times. am just gutted he wants to play these pathetic games but i need more for dc and me xx

Overtiredmum Sun 09-Jun-13 20:46:03

so today, after 4 years, ds decides i don't love him since his sister arrived sad

Vivacia Sun 09-Jun-13 21:02:00

How did you react?

Overtiredmum Sun 09-Jun-13 21:30:04

i've cried all day xxxx

Vivacia Sun 09-Jun-13 21:56:08

I mean, how did you react to your son? Kids say things like this.

Overtiredmum Sun 09-Jun-13 23:10:55

masive row but i have found out so much x

Vivacia Mon 10-Jun-13 06:57:43

I'm confused! You had a massive row with your son?

Overtiredmum Mon 10-Jun-13 08:00:42

No H. Seems my M and him have done alot of talking and its all lies.

When my son said he didn't think i loved him as much, i cuddled him and told him he was my world and i love them equally.

Vivacia Mon 10-Jun-13 08:52:27

Phew!

What do you feel like doing about the lies? Do you want to challenge them? Or does it feel irrelevant now?

Take care.

Overtiredmum Mon 10-Jun-13 11:36:40

The lies are irrelevant as clearly are my wonderful family sad

There is little point dragging it out. they clearly appear to be of the view i am a horrible person and daughter x

Overtiredmum Mon 10-Jun-13 11:54:53

Yayyy got a date for my relate!

GenevievePettigrew Mon 10-Jun-13 12:02:37

So pleased (from a lurker). It really sounds as though the sooner you and the children are away from him you'll be a LOT happier. Stay strong and keep telling your kids you love them.

Overtiredmum Mon 10-Jun-13 14:39:04

i feel much calmer knowing i will see counsellor next week x

Vivacia Mon 10-Jun-13 18:00:44

Excellent stuff!