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Thirty years

(935 Posts)
fuckitybollocks Tue 16-Apr-13 06:23:04

My husband had an affair 5 years ago. He has not been 'in love' with me since. I have really struggled, living with the man you love who does not feel the same way is soul destroying. We have two teenage children so at least we have been together with them. He would continue like this although he is not happy. He says he does not really know what he wants. At the weekend I told him I did not want to live with someone who dies not feel the same way about me. He says he loves me but cannot remember when he was in ,I've with me. He has a neurological issue which affects his memory especially biographical memory and that really does not help.

We are currently hiding the fact that one of us sleeps on the sofa from the children. I can't do that anymore as I have hurt my back. He has not done anything about finding somewhere to live. He does not really want to I don't think. He does not have someone else now, he hasn't for a long while so would prefer us to live together, us being all of us. I think he thinks I will capitulate and he will be able to stay with us for longer.

This is so very very hard. I am crying at times, not when the children are around, he hugs me. He hates seeing me upset. He says he loves me, cares for me. When he had his girlfriend he experienced that infatuated soul mate type relationship. Of course a wife of 30 years cannot match that. He does not value that total love and loyalty that comes with time and family. He says he does not think about me and look forward to seeing me. I know he would stay if he could, he does not really want to have all the hassle if finding somewhere to live etc and he does want to be with children. I am so lonely. Being friends sleeping together (he does not want sex with me often at all) is so souk destroying. I don't blame him for not wanting me, I smell of fags and he hates that, I have always smoked but the smell of me has become really horrid for him and I understand tht. I quit for nearly three months last year and am gearing up to try again. When I didn't smoke he did not want me more though.

This situation can't continue. One child is gearing up for his gcses next month. I do not want children to see this train wreck. I feel so pathetic and selfish messing things up because it is hard living with someone who is not in love with me. Until this crisis he has not told me he loves me at all for months. Valentines day for the first time was just a card. I had chosen a present or him. Two actually although one was not delivered in time.

When he has affair I did not cope. I was very depressed and ended up unable to work. I know I will not do that this time (although am off suck fir a few days while this back pain dies down). He does not respect me, I have behaved badly and been very weal and feeble. Not now though. I am never going into that depression again. I am very unhappy but not depressed and there us a big difference. He might be depressed though. He certainly feels as though there is little point o life.

I am not sure why I am writing this. What if anything anyone can say. I just feel so alone and a bit scared.

Offering you a hand to hold. Sorry I can't find words to express how awful this must be for you, I'm sure someone wiser will be along soon. In the meantime thanks

FarBetterNow Tue 16-Apr-13 06:57:18

Hugs to you.

On the practical side, can he sleep on the sofa?
Of course he wants you to stay together, no doubt life is easier for him living with you - meals, clothes washing etc.

What you want is important.
He destroyed your marriage by having an affair.
He put his desires before his marriage and his family and now expects everything to be hunky dory.
The GCSEs will be over in a few weeks, so he needs to move out then.
You can be strong and will be happier without him.
Best wishes to you.

Sorry to hear what you're going through. Very sad. It sounds like you need to work out exactly what you're going to do. Have either of you had counselling separately or together? I'm thinking that that might help you to work out a plan. Being stuck in a situation is very depressing in itself and I think you will both feel better when you can move forward.

fuckitybollocks Tue 16-Apr-13 07:12:59

Sorry, he slept on sofa last night. No way I can at the moment. This back pain is a bad dose.

We did try counselling five years ago, it was nit terribly useful for either of us. I also had an nhs course, with the funniest (think comic book) counsellor in the world. Was useless.

Anyway, what is the point? I don't think he wants to be in lie with me. The sole refrain is 'I don't want you to be unhappy'. I think he means that, he is a decent man who was horrified by the state I got in five years ago and I knw he would not want me there again. I don't think he really sees how different being tearful is now to the total black hole I was in before. I am desolately sad and struggling but not depressed. I know I can avoid that happening again. At least am as sure as anyone ever can be.

F we stay together until gcses are over, which is best for the child I am sure we w ill have to share a bed. This house is not big enough fir any sort if half way. I don't want half way either. Yesterday he was kind and lovely but we are heading for divorce. How does that happen?

Mosman Tue 16-Apr-13 07:21:36

Heading for divorce is not the scary bit, the worst happened five years ago. You've been in purgatory ever since. The divorce will be a release is say.

beachyhead Tue 16-Apr-13 07:27:50

If he doesn't want you to be unhappy, then he needs to let you go. He's making you unhappy by staying.

I know 30 years is a long time, but you can go through this. I think you've already made it through the worst bit, and now you are feeling stronger and can get through the divorce stage.

You don't deserve to be in this limbo land.

Sephrenia Tue 16-Apr-13 07:43:09

I was going to namechange, but meh, too much effort this morning.

I know how you feel, wish I didn't, but I do. The only difference is, the affair has only just come to light. I gave my H an ultimatum, me or her, and told him that he had to live with the consequences of that choice. He has chosen me apparently. Did your H admit to the affair, or did you catch him at it? From everything I've read lately, that seems to be the clincher in whether or not counselling and attempts to make it work, will work.

My H denies it was even an affair at the moment, that they were just friends (because friends always say 'love you and call each other 'my love' [eyeroll]). He doesn't realise that just because he chose me, it doesn't mean I've chosen him yet.

I can tell you now, as scary and as horrible being alone sounds, it isn't half as bad as you might think, I've separated from H before (in 2009) and I managed just fine. I'm not afraid to do it again if H doesn't work with me on this and I'm telling you, it's not that hard, it's even fun at times and as for your DCs, they will have noticed. Children pick up on this sort of thing quite easily, despite efforts to try and hide it.

You need to get a bit selfish now and consider whether or not YOU can live in a horrid limbo like this for however long it takes for him to decide your life for you. He's had an easy ride so far, so take that power away from him and back to yourself.

I will say this, you're not weak and feeble, you were trying to hold onto your marriage and after an affair on his part, that takes some serious courage and strength.

I have to nip out for a doctor's appointment now, but I'll be back later. Sending you hugs.

thanks

Sephrenia Tue 16-Apr-13 07:43:45

Oh, I forgot to say, I've been with my H for 16 years.

fuckitybollocks Tue 16-Apr-13 08:10:33

He has been nicer to me get past couple of days than he has for a long while. This is so confusing. Should we wait until after gcse? Is that me making an excuse to hang on to him again? I have no real idea what he wants but am pretty sure he does not want me really

onefewernow Tue 16-Apr-13 09:00:35

He is probably being nicer now as he instinctively feels that the power dynamics have changed. Now you are deciding, whereas before it seems it was a matter of only what he wanted/decided, in his head at least.

I can't answer you q re GCSEs. I imagine the kids aren't happy with the atmosphere - mine were a lot less ignorant than I had thought.

It is true that living alone and making that hard choice to move on is less terrifying than you had imagined. It is like giving up smoking- the fear is worse than the practice.

I know this from previous experience, and most people seem to say the same.

fuckitybollocks Tue 16-Apr-13 09:05:26

I was crying as he left. I said this situation was untenable. I sid he had been nicer to me over last couple of days. He said he has not decided anything. I repeatd that I did not wnt to of wih s

fuckitybollocks Tue 16-Apr-13 09:11:29

Sorry on phone and got it wrong. Just feel useless. Beef to talk to dr re sick cert. back later.

AgathaF Tue 16-Apr-13 09:26:20

Personally, I would wait to split until after the GCSE's (just a few weeks now until they're over?), but use the time to plan the practical stuff - sort finances/bank accounts, get utilities transferred into one name, get copies of all important documents for ease further down the line (mortgage stuff/pensions/shares etc). If you will both need to move out of your house then organise that, if just he will leave then he should use the time to sort out alternative accommodation.

Remember, he broke your marriage when he had the affair. He needs to step up now and go if that is what you want to happen. You have given it a really good go, but enough is enough. You deserve better.

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 16-Apr-13 09:38:11

It sounds like things were swept under the carpet and he did not do any of the work he was supposed to do to help you recover and rebuild your trust. He suffered no consequences as a result of his very selfish and entitled actions - no wonder he treats you like a doormat and has no respect for you.

You deserve to be treated with love and respect - take control and tell him you are now deciding what you want for your future.

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 16-Apr-13 09:38:43

Here is a list of the things he should have done:

help spouse heal after affair

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Tue 16-Apr-13 10:00:04

Sorry OP, what a miserable time you've had. I feel so pathetic and selfish messing things up Actually I think you have tried hard to keep your marriage going but respect and love have faded and better to call it a day than stumble on. After 5 years you have reached the end of your tether.

Staying with you out of convenience may suit him but what do you get out of it? He shouldn't get to decide how YOUR life pans out. Definitely wait until after exams then seize the nettle firmly. It is a big step but you deserve more.

melodyangel Tue 16-Apr-13 10:18:06

Are you still sleeping with this man? It sounds like you are when he wants to but not on your terms.

Are you doing the majority of the house work, cooking and cleaning?

He tells you you are disgusting because you smoke.

He had an affair but because he was kind enough to stay you get to sleep on the sofa?

Please Op take the power back off this man he is selfish and lazy and you deserve better.

I would tell him it is over between you to and try to detach yourself from him emotionally and start preparing for a split.

I completely understand why you stayed and why you want to stay at least until after the GCSE's but please, please stop let this man walk all over you.

fuckitybollocks Tue 16-Apr-13 10:19:42

Good link. It outlines almost exactly what did not happen. Do you thinking is too late? I still have a tiny bit if hope that we will live happily ever after!

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Tue 16-Apr-13 10:26:13

When he had his girlfriend he experienced that infatuated soul mate type relationship. Of course a wife of 30 years cannot match that. He does not value that total love and loyalty that comes with time and family. He says he does not think about me and look forward to seeing me.

I cannot see how the two of you will live happily ever after with him feeling this way. I am surprised in that case he didn't have an affair sooner since he places so little value on your relationship. Who does he think he is?

More importantly, why would you accept so little from this man?

MadBusLady Tue 16-Apr-13 10:40:10

I think the conclusion you are coming to is the right one. This is intolerable for you, and it cannot go on; he needs to leave. It's destroying you every day, to be around someone who "doesn't look forward to seeing you", had an affair with a "soulmate" hmm, has mysteriously ramped up their objections to your smoking, wants sex occasionally on their terms and basically likes staying in the comfy family home because they can't be bothered to find a bedsit. That would destroy anyone. Why do you think it's YOU who's "behaved badly"??

Don't imagine your children don't know, by the way. An eight-year-old could work out that somebody was sleeping on the sofa, let alone a couple of teenagers.

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 16-Apr-13 10:41:03

Five years is a very long time and its probably too late.

If I were you I would sit down with him and tell him that you have decided you deserve more and to be loved and cherished. And that you will ask him to leave after DC's GCSEs.

Then, its up to him to step up - if he really wants you, then he will be on his knees begging for another chance and doing all he can to make it work. You may find its too little too late though.

Otherwise a clean break is best for all concerned - that way you can move on and create a new life for yourself where you are no longer made to feel like crap.

MadBusLady Tue 16-Apr-13 10:47:06

I still have a tiny bit if hope that we will live happily ever after!

If he doesn't want to live happily ever after with you this is a non-starter. And it sounds like he checked out long ago. There's no amount of "work" one person can put into a relationship that will compensate for the fact that the other person isn't interested.

badinage Tue 16-Apr-13 11:53:14

Yes it's too late.

Let me guess. The OW dumped him didn't she?

And you took him back when he had nowhere else to go.

It was a mistake to stay with him then and it's a mistake to stay with him now. When your son's GCSEs are over, you'll probably find another excuse to keep the status quo because you still have unrealistic hopes that this is salvageable.

It is not.

I'm assuming your kids knew about his affair?

fuckitybollocks Tue 16-Apr-13 12:39:18

Bad, yes. And, I am scared that I will continue to find reason to hope and hang on.

fuckitybollocks Tue 16-Apr-13 12:40:44

And yes. It is absolutely foolish.

Btw he was in sofa last night not me.

Sex, I think we have sex because he knows I want to feel close, not because he wants it.

badinage Tue 16-Apr-13 12:41:17

Well don't then.

There is no hope.

And are you saying yes to the OW dumping him and the fact that the kids knew about the affair?

fuckitybollocks Tue 16-Apr-13 13:20:22

Sorry. Yes to both of those. He is back for lunch and I have reminded him that he needs to make plans for the future. He left him to it now. Am going to try and avoid him and any talking.

I know I need to stay firm and clear. This is not enough. I don't want to just bumble along as friends. It is funny, our relationship now is far closer to that he described to his girlfriend than it actually was then! Self fulfilling prophecy perhaps? .

MadBusLady Tue 16-Apr-13 13:45:44

Give him a deadline - make it a month if you want to be over-the-top more reasonable than he deserves. He's had plenty of time to get his arse in gear and move on and he hasn't done it. You shouldn't have to creep around your own house trying to avoid talking to an unfaithful, unloving spouse who can't be bothered to give up on the free laundry service.

flowers for your new clarity. And yes, a self-fulfilling prophecy is exactly what this sounds like!

badinage Tue 16-Apr-13 13:50:28

He will do nothing.

Don't leave it to him. Take action yourself. If you're married, start divorce proceedings.

Will you do that?

AgathaF Tue 16-Apr-13 14:10:32

As others have said, give him a fixed date (maybe after GCSEs finish) to actually move out, and make it clear to him that in the intervening weeks he will have to arrange his accommodation, and support you in making the other arrangements - utilities, bank accounts etc.

Trying to avoid him is not going to work. You have to proactive and make sure that this happens. He will just let it slide otherwise.

You will still be in this crappy situation in another five years if you don't get the ball rolling, or until he finds someone else to shag and move in with.

You are worth so much more than this. Your kids are too - they deserve a happy mum.

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 16-Apr-13 14:35:25

So the affair ended when OW dumped him. In that case, there is no hope. He has checked out of the marriage mentally and emotionally.

Be strong and take control.

fuckitybollocks Tue 16-Apr-13 15:46:30

I have just done more crying. I can't work out what to do. He seems genuinely confused and unhappy. I feel as though I should hang fire and see what he wants. I know that would be stupid. He keeps saying our relationship is as good as most people's our age.

badinage Tue 16-Apr-13 15:54:56

He's unhappy but he's not confused. He wants a roof over his head and doesn't want to look after himself or the kids on his own.

You're unhappy and extremely indecisive.

He's wrong about relationships being like this after years. Mine isn't and I've been married longer.

If you want to be miserable for the rest of your life - just do nothing. If the 15/16 year old is your youngest then the kids will leave home as soon as they can and that will be sooner than it might have been in a happy home. If they knew about his affair and their home has been this miserable for 5 years, they'll go as soon as they can.

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 16-Apr-13 15:55:59

Why does HE get to decide? of course he is unhappy as he is in danger of losing his skivvy - it suits him to stay with you and continue to treat you like crap as he gets all his chores done for him.

badinage Tue 16-Apr-13 16:03:04

I feel as though I should hang fire and see what he wants.

I doubt that's true.

I think you mean

I feel as if I should hang fire because I'm too frightened to divorce

(which is understandable btw, but be honest with yourself)

MadBusLady Tue 16-Apr-13 16:16:19

My parents' marriage isn't like that and they've been married 40 years. My in-laws, ditto. (I know nobody really knows what a marriage is like, but there are certain features you can be sure about even from the outside.)

Agree with badinage about your kids sad I think it's a measure of the miserable fog you're in that you genuinely think they're not already witnessing a train wreck. They are.

AnyFucker Tue 16-Apr-13 16:16:29

No, he is very wrong

Your relationship is "not as good as most people's of your age"

Most of those, even if the first years of hot lust have worn off still have mutual respect

Your marriage has failed. He is the one that has damaged it fatally. Time to gather your self respect now, love, tell him after the GCSE's are finished you are filing for divorce and it is best he leaves.

You won't get your "happy ever after" with this man. Some marriages can survive infidelity, but not this one, sorry.

You need to make your own happiness, and the first step is to offload the dead wood.

AgathaF Tue 16-Apr-13 18:19:26

Why should you "hang fire and see what he wants"? Haven't you given him enough of your precious years?

Picture yourself in 10 years time. What do you want your life to be? Do you want to still be living in this shitty limbo? Do you want to have been living in limbo for 7 years, and then dumped when he finds someone else? Do you want to be living a happy fulfilled life, either on your own or with a new partner?

You are giving your life up for this man who gives you nothing in return. That is madness.

fuckitybollocks Tue 16-Apr-13 18:52:22

I have not gone away. Am reading the thread recommended, and the one that started that story! I have also read the where do you call a halt to the marriage thread. I would be throwing away so much for us all as a family. I feel very selfish. I know he has the affair but he has since helped create a stable environment for my children. I am pretty sure they are unaware. I have a chronic illness which provides cover for weeping and lying in the bed reading. It would also provide an explanation for sleeping apart for a few days.

fuckitybollocks Tue 16-Apr-13 18:53:17

Am I giving up my life or providing a good life for my children?

AgathaF Tue 16-Apr-13 19:01:29

Children are so much more aware of things than we imagine. What your children could be learning from this is that men are easily forgiven for having affairs, that women put up with a lot, that mediocre relationships are normal, that mum being less than happy is ok.

Would you want that kind of life for them?

They can still have a good life if you and their dad live apart. You can both still have a relationship with them, do stuff with them, even do stuff as a family if it works for all of you. But you would be free to be your own person, to find happiness and be content. Surely that is what your children would want for you?

fuckitybollocks Tue 16-Apr-13 19:25:23

Yes they would.

fuckitybollocks Tue 16-Apr-13 19:35:12

But I can do that when they are just a bit older. I do not think that I will have another partner so no rush.

I know I am being very negative. Partly playing out the devils advocate in my brain. The only reason for breaking up is that I am not happy, I do wonder if I would be happier without my husband? I do like him being around. sad.

AnyFucker Tue 16-Apr-13 19:54:11

When they are a "bit older" there will be another reason to compromise yourself. A milestone birthday, a change of school, exams

etc

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 16-Apr-13 19:57:01

YY to AF and then what if he finds someone else and decides to dump you? All those years for nothing sad

fuckitybollocks Tue 16-Apr-13 20:16:34

That's it in a nutshell. They would not be for nothing. They would be for all of us!

Anyway, I have read other thread and thanks to you guys have practised my lines. I still don't think I can cope with getting into bed with someone who does not love me. More to the pint I am begining to actually believe he doesn't love me. I am through with making excuses and finding reasons for him to bit want this to work. I think I am finally ready to give up on him.

AgathaF Tue 16-Apr-13 20:19:58

I think I am finally ready to give up on him - I really hope so. He gave up on you and your marriage a long time ago. You really can't hold a family together single handed. The cracks will be showing, even if you pretend they are not there. Your children will not thank you for throwing away your life for them. No-one should feel that their parents did that for them.

AnyFucker Tue 16-Apr-13 20:24:09

yy to Agatha

Ahhhcrap Tue 16-Apr-13 20:29:14

Good luck OP

badinage Tue 16-Apr-13 21:38:03

It's extremely unlikely your children have had anything like approaching a 'good life' for at least 5 years. To which must be added the period when he was having an affair.

They know. They hurt.

End this now, for their sake as much as yours.

fuckitybollocks Tue 16-Apr-13 22:42:05

Off to bed now. Sat on the sofa watching mock the week. Nothing said. Nothing. I have not got the energy. Where will he sleep? Will he ask? What will be said? I am exhausted. Is easier to say yes you can come to bed. And it all starts over again. That is if he asks.

AnyFucker Tue 16-Apr-13 22:45:55

That is an extremely grim way to live

You don't have to exist like that

badinage Tue 16-Apr-13 23:55:19

Pfft to you not having the energy. You haven't got the will to see this through and take control of it, that's all.

He's saying nothing because he doesn't want anything to change, that's all.

Neither do you, it would appear.

AgathaF Wed 17-Apr-13 07:02:42

You do not have the energy to instigate the much needed conversation with him because you are emotionally wrung out by the way you have been living for the last five years.

You are existing. That is all. Not living, not getting joy from life, not waking up looking forward.

You can only start to heal once you separate from him. You can't heal in this limbo situation. And healing is very much what you need to do.

fuckitybollocks Wed 17-Apr-13 08:40:47

I instigated tricky conversations yesterday and went in circles. Late last night he says he loved me. I said that I did not feel loved and slept. He stayed on sofa again. Have just talked again and yes it does have to be me that brings it up. He siad he did not want me to be unhappy, I said I understood that but he was also not interested in making me happy. He wants to stay, he says with me but perhaps just here. I repeated that I was not going to live like this. It is hard living with someone who does not look forward to seeing me. It replied he merely meant that he did not think about me all the time. I am sure he is comparing this with how obsessed he was with ow.

This puts the onus back to me. I do not know what to expect, if I should feel lioved at this stage. I think I should but perhaps it is me who is failing. Failing to value what he does offer. Why do I need more? I have a good career I earn less but my job is a career and I love it most if the time. I have friends and family. Perhaps this hollow bleak bit inside of me is my problem. Is it fair to expect him to make me happy? I am responsible for that surely?

Badinage, you seem to be saying that it is my fault I am unhappy. I think you have a point.

LisaMed Wed 17-Apr-13 08:43:57

Do you think he would be unfaithful again if he had the chance?

fuckitybollocks Wed 17-Apr-13 08:49:47

Bad I do want change. I am aware the only thing I can change is me. I feel very inadequate. Yet I feel responsible for him not being happy. That does not make sense I know. Although I know people are responsible for own happiness isn't being a couple an implicit belief that each wants the other to be happy and demonstrates this through actions?

MadAboutHotChoc Wed 17-Apr-13 08:51:24

You feel like this because you do not feel loved and cherished, because you haven't healed from the devastation he wrecked and because you won't take responsibility for your own happiness.

Only you can make yourself happy and only you can change things - staying with a man who does not show love or respect will not make you happy.

MadBusLady Wed 17-Apr-13 08:57:01

angry No, it isn't his job (or anyone's) to make you happy, but he is currently making you UNhappy. That is what is wrong with this situation. "I do not want you to be unhappy" is such a weasel phrase. You TOLD him you didn't want to live like this any more. His response is to say he doesn't want you to be unhappy... and do nothing else! Not make any suggestions, not make plans to move out like you asked. Think about that. All he has to do is express his wish for you not to be unhappy, and he knows he gets let off the hook. And he even has the immortal gall to tell you he wants to stay "but perhaps just here" ie not in a relationship. How the fuck is that going to not make you even unhappier? He expresses a wish for one thing to happen, and then does the exact opposite.

I'm sorry, but I'm starting to think he really doesn't give a shit about you. Or he is so used to taking your meek compliance for granted that it comes to the same thing. I think you need to internalise this and get angry. I think what Badinage is saying is that you are going to stay unhappy until you DO something about this man, like divorce him, or give him a deadline to move out.

You started this thread because you were confused, befogged, miserable, had had enough. You still sound all those things. In fact, you sound more so now, because he has started to convince you (again!) that it's actually YOUR failings at fault here, rather than his.

You're also scared of change (understandably after 30 years) so you're starting to justify why things can stay the same anyway.

If you don't take control now, in a few months or a few years, you'll be back with a new thread. It'll either be exactly the same as this one. Or it'll be "he's met someone else/got back with OW and left me."

MadBusLady Wed 17-Apr-13 08:57:52

Sorry that angry was obviously for him, not you!

MadBusLady Wed 17-Apr-13 09:03:19

x-post

Although I know people are responsible for own happiness isn't being a couple an implicit belief that each wants the other to be happy and demonstrates this through actions

Exactly.

fuckitybollocks Wed 17-Apr-13 09:41:32

He did not say perhaps just being here. I added that as a thought inside my head when he said he wanted to stay.

Bloody hell. I am getting and sounding so muddled. Need to so some serious marking. Will try and focus in that for a while before trying to work everything out again.

I dread doing all this again In a few months. When he says he lives me, and he has been affectionate and kind the last day or two, I just capitulate.

fuckitybollocks Wed 17-Apr-13 11:26:13

Ok I did not cave. I have said we must talk to the children. I have suggested that he goes to his mums short term. He says he feels guilty taking money out of the household to live alone. I have this that us just practicalities to deal with.

He says that coming back when he did was wrong. He did not actively choose me. He began to suggest that if he moved out he may find he misses me and want to be with me. I says I did not want to hear that. I think he is contemplating how to leave now.

MadAboutHotChoc Wed 17-Apr-13 11:41:28

Sounds like you are being strong - well done.

fuckitybollocks Wed 17-Apr-13 12:00:02

I have tried to calculate tax credits etc. does anyone know how having an 18 year old who works and earns pretty good money will affect everything? I can't make my self phone tax office yet. Pretty sure I won't be able to decrease council tax.

badinage Wed 17-Apr-13 12:38:53

I asked you whether you would start divorce proceedings? You didn't reply.

Because that's what you need to do, after getting some practical legal advice.

Love is an action, not words.

Your husband could not be any clearer in his actions that he does not love you as a romantic partner.

To be fair, he couldn't be much clearer in his words now either. He's saying he was wrong to come back when he got dumped and implicitly he's telling you too that you were wrong to take him back.

He knows that his respect died for you the moment you did that. And it's impossible to be 'in love' with someone you don't respect and who you think has no self-respect either.

After five years of this hell, I'd suggest you start taking really concrete action and that means divorce, telling the children and formal separate residences. He can look for a new place from his mum's for now but his move out needs to be signposted as permanent and the divorce put in motion.

Will you do that?

AnyFucker Wed 17-Apr-13 12:48:28

I am really sorry, love

It does seem now you are going to have to start facing up to things

Badinage is right

I hope you have someone supporting you properly in real life x

fuckitybollocks Wed 17-Apr-13 12:49:35

Badinage it is a given that we will divorce. Sorry I did not answer although right now I do not remember you asking. Brain a mess. Divorce is nothing but paper, the paper that was demonstrably worthless. It is the emotional stuff that is hard uncertain etc

Gcses finish in June, am trying to think rationally about how to play things until then. Divorce is unimportant really. Just paperwork. It is the realisation that we are not a couple that is tough. I have never worn a wedding ring, my commitment to him was not predicated upon marriage.

fuckitybollocks Wed 17-Apr-13 12:51:21

I have told my friend today. She is shocked but will be there for me. I am just about to see another friend. I will tell her too. I didn't want to talk to anyone in real life until children know but you are right, I need some support.

badinage Wed 17-Apr-13 13:02:00

I disagree that divorce is unimportant. This is just one of your little internal trade-offs to stop you doing something irrevocable and concrete.

I think if you don't start divorce proceedings and tell the children, you'll keep hoping that this will work, he will fall back in love with you and the Happy Ever After will still happen.

It won't of course.

Lucylloyd13 Wed 17-Apr-13 13:03:30

What a beautiful, raw, op.

Any relationship is based upon mutuality and if you are not drawing equally from the relationship then you need to do something about it.

A long marriage is worth holding on to,and working on, but only if the future is worth having.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Wed 17-Apr-13 13:09:45

You cope with a chronic illness, hold down a job and care for your school-age DC(s), all this is a breeze compared to putting up with a marriage that has lost respect and love. Your H tried to fob you off with the idea that many couples after long marriages make do with so little. Too apathetic to address the issues that led to his affair, content to stay put and enjoy home comforts, all to save him 'hassle' of leaving.

Even the most self-obsessed teens will have picked up by now that you and H are just going through the motions. When the DCs grow up and leave home, a poor relationship with H would be lonelier than living on your own.

isn't being a couple an implicit belief that each wants the other to be happy and demonstrates this through actions?

Yes - absolutely - I am glad you have finally voiced what you are feeling and hope you can move forward. Good that you have real life support, your friends will want to help. Good luck.

fuckitybollocks Wed 17-Apr-13 13:20:54

Divorce is truly irrelevant. Absolutely not a back track just because I have not been to a solicitor. Paper really is unimportant.

Thank you for support. Think I will need it over next month or so.

fuckitybollocks Wed 17-Apr-13 14:39:02

It s up to me whether we wait until after exams. I have to try and be strong enough to make it work. I am, in my head, making plans to keep me busy. Told friend out walking. She is shocked too. She thought he loved me. She also said he has been cruel, it helped a little in a funny sort of way to hear someone who knows us both say that.

badinage Wed 17-Apr-13 14:48:35

Wait for what?

Him moving to his mum's?

Or serving him with divorce papers?

If it's him moving out, that's a backtrack within the space of a few hours. And having asked him to move out, if you retract that, he's entitled not to take you seriously.

In fact the only thing he's likely to take seriously is a divorce petition.

fuckitybollocks Wed 17-Apr-13 16:22:47

Backtrack perhaps.

He said something earlier which really hit home. He said I pushed him to tell me the truth (ie that he does not love me). It is not even a friendship if there is dishonesty on any level.

After all the things he has said - including today telling me he has sex with me because he wants sex not out of love or even affection - this point about not being honest has really got to me. Partly because I sort of knew it but stupidly hoped otherwise.

He really is not a very nice person now. It is a shame because he was lovely.

You accuse me of backtracking badinage, I think I am moving forward at a heck of a pace. Telling people has helped with this. When I hear myself saying what has been happening it is even more of a slap with a wet fish than writing it.

Time for son to complete exams; another 8 weeks after so long is not much to do if it makes things easier for my son, not just now but his choices next academic year will be limited if he does less well in his Exams than he is capable of. I would like to be able to keep talking here - it has helped telling first people here and then real life friends and I know I am going to have to be really really strong to pull this off. As you say Badinage, he needs to take me seriously. On the other hand though, what does it matter what he thinks? I know that this is the end.

MadBusLady Wed 17-Apr-13 16:40:34

brew

I did wonder if that might happen, the wet-fish-slap effect when you told friends.

It IS a shame (for him, really) that he's not a nice person now. But on another level it makes it easier for you to see how he is not on your side here? I can't imagine how difficult it must be after 30 years of him being naturally on your side to adjust to this, but that's what's happened.

badinage Wed 17-Apr-13 16:51:11

I've just posted on another thread about this myth that having two resident parents on the precipice of divorce being A Good Thing for children who are studying for GCSEs. It is not. Kids need calm and peace, not tension between their adult carers.

Even if you believe this myth, you can still get the divorce in motion while he's living under your roof whereas if you delay there's a real risk you'll wait for the results to come out, then the start of sixth form or college, then university if he goes.........

I think you're still lying to yourself that the last 5 years has been a better environment for your kids than if you'd parted when the OW dumped him. And because of that, you still think your son will have an easier life living in this atmosphere than he would if he had a few weeks to deal with what they've both been expecting for years and possibly secretly hoping for.

If on the other hand you think you'll go to pieces if your husband moves out and you have to finally face giving up on this, then unless your husband takes up the reins of parental support (unlikely by the sounds of things) I'd understand your decision to let him stay put until June. You'd be doing this for your own sake as well as your son's. But that doesn't mean you can't get the divorce in motion and stop losing this momentum.

fuckitybollocks Wed 17-Apr-13 16:56:58

I am not lying to myself. I know that the children have had a better life over the past five years. If nothing else I have modelled love forgiveness etc. I am not certain I can keep things stable enough for next eight weeks but i am going to give it a damn good try. Then I will model independence and self respect.

Thanks for the tea madbus, fancy a glass of wine with me later?

badinage Wed 17-Apr-13 17:08:15

I'd be interested to hear your kids' version of events about their lives over the past few years. I work with teenagers and I've yet to meet one in your kids' situation who isn't angry and resentful about their parents staying together long after one or both parents had checked out of the relationship. Modelling love and forgiveness is only worthwhile if the other parent is sorry for his actions and works hard to repair the relationship. I think instead you've both modelled something far more damaging about relationships.

AgathaF Wed 17-Apr-13 17:08:57

I think you are right to wait until your son's GCSEs are finished. And I also think you are moving forward at a pace, but not too quickly. In not very long at all you have moved from your OP to now saying that divorce is going to happen, he is going to move out, and to telling some friends. All positive steps for you.

The challenge will be to keep momentum going, if he tries to persuade you otherwise, or if it drags and you get cold feet.

Positive, practical plans should help. I know you say the divorce is irrelevant, but it is a signal to him and to others that your relationship is officially finished as far as being husband and wife are concerned. So for that reason, I think you should speak to a solicitor soon. You don't have to officially do anything until your son's exams are over, he doesn't need to move out until then, and your children don't need to be told until then, but it is improtant that you get things officially in place to keep that momentum going.

You will start to heal when things are in place, and when he moves out. You will start to regain yourself.

fuckitybollocks Wed 17-Apr-13 17:25:04

Madbus, he has not been on my side for five years. It is not sudden. I am just very slow on the uptake!

That was sudden though and very hard to understand. We had the most amazing trip in a lifetime family holiday. He was most definitely in love with me then. I then had surgery and was wheelchair bound for a few months. He was loving and caring and sex was good! Then just as I was able to walk for more than a few mins he was off telling some kid that he had not loved me for ages. The kid was attractive and ready to pay for a hotel for them to use!

I mentioned he has memory difficulties. He does not even remember his re of being born although he was there each time. He does not remember meeting me fr the first time, he does not remember his father's funeral. He certainly does not remember being besotted with me.

Can you see why I thought it was worth hanging in? He was (is) frightened of growing old, the young slapper made him feel young. His e memory loss is scary and as regards biographical stuff almost complete. I felt that I should care for him. Fill in the memory gaps. I even (ha) understood that it might be hard to love this middle aged woman with Heath issues when he did not remember her being young and pretty. He asked me a few days ago if I loved him or whether it was just that I remembered our lives together.

All very confusing. He has been depressed too (understandably), but being depressed or whatever is no excuse for being cruel or lying.

fuckitybollocks Wed 17-Apr-13 17:41:07

Badinage. You cannot possibly know this. You sound as though you think I am stupid just because I have a different perspective than you.

Agatha that is a good point about divorce. However first job is to ensure security for children. I think I will go full time. Only 30 hours per week at the moment. I know my boss would be delighted to increase my hours. That will add a significant amount of cash. I also have a book in the throes of being published (boring non fiction - about teenagers in fact!). I need it get on with the final draft and see what else I can do to build on that.

We only moved into this house a couple of months ago, was supposed to be a really positive thing for us as a couple as we downsized. I need to think carefully about how to make it as I want it. Ad perhaps get some things done sooner rather than later! New carpets while there are two incomes might be nice...

Don't worry I will not lose house, the capital in it is pretty much all mine and I know my husband will not want to touch that.

Tonight I have a friend, the one I walked with coming round for pizza. Tomorrow another girlfriend is driving down to buy me a curry. Saturday I have a night out to celebrate a friend's birthday. I am quite determined to make it absolutely clear that I no longer need someone who does not love me in y life. I have friends and family and can see a way of being financially independent although I am a little concerned abut managing mortgage and all bills I will manage somehow.

Yes, I think things are moving on at a pace Agatha. I don't have to prove anything to anyone except myself and I will do that.

MadAboutHotChoc Wed 17-Apr-13 18:18:39

Have a look at this link for info link

badinage Wed 17-Apr-13 18:22:47

No I don't think you are stupid.

I simply don't think you're being honest with yourself.

And why are you calling another woman a 'slapper'?

AgathaF Wed 17-Apr-13 18:23:53

You sound like you have some really good things going on in your life, as well as this horible situation you are currently in. I'm so pleased for you about that - and soon to be published too! A significant achievement smile. It's good too that you have rl support.

I'm sure all of those things will give you strength and distraction from the shittiness in the months to come.

You and your children will be fine.

AgathaF Wed 17-Apr-13 18:25:38

badinage - I'm sure lots of us would call an OW a slapper, and probably much worse too. It's hurt and anger talking. That can't be a surprise to you, surely?

badinage Wed 17-Apr-13 18:31:27

'Slapper' refers to a woman's sexual morals and it's gendered. I can completely understand hating the OW for the hurt she has helped cause, but no I don't think it's ever excusable to expect her to have higher sexual morals than a man, or to use such woman-hating terms. As for hurt and anger towards her, she hasn't been on the scene for 5 years and her involvement really isn't the problem here.....it is and has always been the OP's husband who's the problem - and the OP's inability to see it.

fuckitybollocks Wed 17-Apr-13 18:34:20

Thanks mad. I saw that linked from another thread and agree, it is very useful.

Thank you Agatha, the publishing will not result in any significant amount of pennies, but it will be kudos and complete something I started just before that affair. It would feel good, like a sort of oh I can't think of he words.

Slapper is the politest term for the woman who assured me she would make sure my children would still see their father, who had designs on moving into the house we built, who told me my husband would only have sex with someone he loved, that her husband was broken hearted so she understood how i felt and a whole load more. Yes I am well aware of the misogyny behind the word slapper, hence it fits this as being extreme enough! Typewritten words take on a life of their own, quite different from vocal. What noun would you use? She does not deserve to be called woman, even if self evidently that is true! Calling her a cow is insulting to bovines.

AgathaF Wed 17-Apr-13 18:38:43

badinage - I really don't think this thread is the right place to debate the use of the OPs chosen word to describe the OW.

fuckitybollocks Wed 17-Apr-13 18:44:42

Cross post! A gendered insult implying nefarious behaviour is fitting.

Why do you think I do not see husband's behaviour as a problem? It feels as though you have a desire to insult me? Some of your statements about me are simply not true.

AnyFucker Wed 17-Apr-13 18:44:57

Badinage, you are giving the op a rough time here

badinage Wed 17-Apr-13 18:45:53

I wouldn't use any noun at all because she's irrelevant.

But you're far more scathing about her than you are about your husband, despite the cruelties he's subjected you to for years and still keep coming even today. It's not the OW who's allowed him to keep on hurting you. He is responsible for doing it and you are responsible for enabling it.

I really hope you mean what you say about bringing this relationship to an end, but your quite visceral reaction to the suggestion of instigating a divorce and your speedily retracted request for him to move out makes me sceptical. Have you thought what you will do if he decides to move out anyway?

fuckitybollocks Wed 17-Apr-13 18:58:52

Yes I have, and I think that is a real possibility. But I will try and keep things as err smooth as I can. I have spent years thinking about this but some of the things said over the last day or two have been like 'aha' moments. I knew he lied, but am seeing him as a liar fir almost the first time. I am not expecting that to make sense. It does not really make sense to me. It is like death by a thousand cuts I suppose.

I know I will wobble, I hope I will be tough enough now to accept a little wobble and keep on. I think I will. Why do you see the paperwork. as so important Agatha made a really good point that I had not considered but you seem so pushy about it? It really is just paperwork. I think me and the children and how we are is far more important, telling people who love me is more significant than a solicitor.

MadBusLady Wed 17-Apr-13 18:59:21

OP, given the emotional rollercoaster you've been on since you started the thread, I think you're probably going to arrive at the position of divorce being vital pretty soon anyway - certainly "soon" in the context of five years. So I sort of agree with Badinage but I don't think there's any need for labouring the point like this.

I'm divided on the GCSE/timing thing. It's true I doubt the current environment has been relaxed or conducive to study for the DC over the last few years. But the time for that discussion was 2/3 years back before your DS had started his GCSE courses. There's not much that can be salvaged over the next 8 weeks, so maybe AgathaF is right and the best course is not to deliberately bring on a crisis (though you can't stop him bringing it on, I suppose).

MadBusLady Wed 17-Apr-13 19:01:00

I knew he lied, but am seeing him as a liar fir almost the first time. I am not expecting that to make sense.

No, I think that will make sense to everyone who's (eventually) dumped a wrong'un! You know the verb applies, but somehow have trouble with the noun.

Anyway, time for wine

fuckitybollocks Wed 17-Apr-13 19:19:11

No the atmosphere has not been the best. And my lovely lad has had other challenges too. I will do the best I can though.

And blimey, I was not thinking in terms if years until we divorce! Just not my priority right now.

Priorities are, dc and stopping myself being sucked in.

fuckitybollocks Wed 17-Apr-13 23:36:41

I am finding this hard. I don't think I can do it. I don't know what to do. I am so useless, I am scared this house is not big enough. What if the children can hear me. Trying to be silent. Being dead would be so much easier. The friend who cane round tonight, who husband drove home is one who snogged him a few years ago. He came back and said, so you have told * then. I don't know what was said. None of my business I guess. He is downstairs. Children in bed near me. I am alone here. I need strength.

AnyFucker Wed 17-Apr-13 23:49:01

You don't need to "do" anything tonight.

You don't need to be "strong" tonight.

Try to get some sleep, or at least some semblance of lying still for a few hours to give your limbs a rest.

Tomorrow is another day and your children need you.

if you need someone to talk to in the small hours, give these wonderful people a ring

springyhappychick Thu 18-Apr-13 00:41:33

Reading your op and your last posts made me feel physically sick. What on earth has happened to you that you will accept this appalling hell - for FIVE YEARS.

there is NO HOPE. As was mentioned, you save your contempt for the slapper woman who, supposedly, lured him away; yet barely any contempt for the one who deserves it. It was his dick that did it.

he is being unbelievably cruel/selfish/self-absorbed. You - and your house - are a cushy number. He has been busy feeling sorry for himself that the flighty young thing chucked him - that is all. he doesn't feel sorry for you, despite what he says.

I really would leave it until after gcse's - upheaval like that would be too much. It will be hard for you but there really is only one way to go, and that is out.

I am trying to absorb that you had 25 good years together but, even then, I still can't see why you would tolerate the living hell you have for five years. I really can't.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Thu 18-Apr-13 01:25:14

Hope you get some sleep OP every worry seems bigger at night. Don't be scared or put off by a wobble. It is like fear before going on stage it can be adrenaline and will actually carry you though your legs are shaking.

He makes it sound like living with you is a penance, some sort of martyrdom. His depression may be genuine, it could centre on being thwarted 5 years' ago.

He could muddle you by appearing extra attentive and conciliatory now. How can you trust what he tells you? Your self-esteem must take a knock with every unkindness.

At least a dog would offer you loyalty as well as companionship, and wag his tail every time you walk into the room.

Rest now and in the morning tackle anything practical. One day at a time. I believe you said in 8 weeks' time DS will finish gcses, that gives you time to seek legal advice, make copies of financial details. Keep posting here for support.

Charbon Thu 18-Apr-13 01:30:19

OP I remember another thread of yours that ended similarly. You had a lot of good advice and you seemed resolute that divorce was the only sensible option - and then you suddenly completely reversed your position for reasons that made no sense at all. That was quite a long time ago now; well over a year has passed I'd say. I know I was vaguely aware of other threads before that and other posters seemed to say they'd all gone the same way too.

I was startled however on this one to read that your husband not only had an affair, but he also had something going on with the friend you had round tonight. Did you give her permission to share your confidences with him? It's upsetting to see that two people you're close to have hurt you so much and that they are still in your life.

I hope you can see the patterns on your threads and that they play out in very similar ways; almost like a script. Like many threads, it feels as though posters are unwittingly engaged in roles of a script only you are in possession of.

I hope you will challenge yourself about this and also that you will finally find the strength to follow through this time. I recall I think from your other thread that your husband's attitude and behaviours throughout your marriage and long before the affair were portents of what was to come, so I don't think the 25 years before it nurtured your spirit or gave you complete faith in him. It's so sad that you gave him another 5 years and that they have been so torturous, but it would be a tragedy if you gave him another day of a life that has been worthwhile for so many reasons.

fuckitybollocks Thu 18-Apr-13 07:22:13

I have woken calmer. Today I will be too busy to cry. That's the plan anyway. I wish I could find some anger, I think that would help I just feel vaguely nauseous and overwhelmingly sad. So pleased i went through with telling a few people yesterday. I have not said anything to any family and think I must not until this eight weeks are up but telling people in real life helps.

I know what you mean about a script. It must have a different ending this time.

AgathaF Thu 18-Apr-13 07:32:55

fb I would be careful who you tell in case word gets back to your children. The person you told last night - it does seem wrong that she spoke to your H about it straight after. Not much loyalty there for you, it seems. I think you should just tell people that you really trust, and make sure you explicitly tell them to keep it to themselves as your children don't know yet.

On the positive side, I glad you are calmer this morning. Time to start making some plans. Maybe put something down on paper - things to do and when you aim to do them by - to keep you on track.

fuckitybollocks Thu 18-Apr-13 08:06:48

I agree with watching who I tell, my family will be fab but will be so upset as well there is no way they will keep it private for now. The friend is an integral part of all of our lives. I do not totally trust her but telling her before my husband does feels right for me, it feels more in control somehow.

The friend I am seeing tonight is a friend from school days. I see her very rarely and she is not involved with my family although obviously they all know each other. She is definitely one for me if that makes sense. She is also a lawyer although her practise is a long way fro family law she will keep an eye on my interests if you know what I mean. I am truly not worried about legal and financial side, I have absolute confidence that my husband will bend over backwards to be more than fair (if only through guilt) nonetheless having someone who is aware of all the possibilities keeping an eye on me makes me feel more secure.

I have a list agatha - on with it!

AnyFucker Thu 18-Apr-13 08:11:59

Glad to see you looking a bit more together this am, FB

You scared me a little bit last night

Don't ever let a man bring you as low as that again

fuckitybollocks Thu 18-Apr-13 08:30:23

I was scared too, I am sorry to have worried anyone though. I will never ever end my life, I have seen exactly what that does to children over a period of many years. It would never happen. That unfortunately does not mean I don't wish the personal peace that would be gained, selfish I know. For someone who spends a lot of her time writing I struggle to be clear here!

I do feel as though it is possible that my family would eh better off without me, I am such an idiot, but never by any means that the children would feel the ultimate rejection of a parent who thinks so little of them.

Husband came and asked for a hug this morning, says he feels bad. For fucks sake this is why keeping the momentum for these eight weeks is going to be hard. Is so much easier when he is a shit, so much harder when he is so down and struggling. I have got to get over the cocky I can care for him and make him happy feeling. I am so sad he does not have memories, but I can do nothing about that.

AnyFucker Thu 18-Apr-13 08:36:11

I hope you told him what to do with his hug

fuckitybollocks Thu 18-Apr-13 08:47:47

There was still a child in the house, so that knee jerk response was not a possibility!

I had to go for quiet dignified version of fuck off - worked though. And probably more effective in terms of erecting and maintaining boundaries.

MadBusLady Thu 18-Apr-13 08:58:52

Well, if it helps I think he is still essentially being a bit of a shit in asking you for a hug. "Because he feels bad." Well, woe. You don't seem to get what YOU want just because you feel bad. But as soon as HE feels bad, it must be expressed and a solution sought, usually one you have to provide. Yes, the roots of his feeling bad are legitimate and serious. But he can't continue to rely on you for emotional support when he provides none - worse than none - to you.

onefewernow Thu 18-Apr-13 09:07:01

FB I have just read all of your thread since I last listed, and actually I am quite angry for you.

Do retread and summarise to yourself all of your husbands comments. Everything he has said to you is about him. What he feels or doesn't feel. What he may want or may regret. Ad nauseam.

It couldn't be clearer that his feelings are just about hedging his bets, and about protecting himself from unnecessary inconvenience.

Only you are likely to change the dynamic here. It is almost as though you are allowing him to take control of every decision, including how and when you split. Take back that power from him.

AgathaF Thu 18-Apr-13 09:31:35

It is probably worth having a calm conversation when your children are not around, so spell out how the next few weeks are going to work. Namely that as you are in the process of (now, not some distant thing in the future) separating, hugs, cuddles and sex are now inappropriate. Polite respect is the way forward. Some kind of timescale of when you expect him to have found somewhere to go, sorted bank accounts etc, packed his stuff.

He doesn't really seem to accept that it is happening, does he?

fuckitybollocks Thu 18-Apr-13 09:43:45

Again, you are right Agatha. I will do that, but tomorrow (Friday not the tomorrow that never comes). Top priority for today is absolutely no crying when he is around at all. I want to regain some of the strength you lose when it is clear that you are hurting as a results of him.
I want him to see that I am serious. I don't want to give him any reason at all to think I don't mean it when I say we are splitting up.

onefewernow Thu 18-Apr-13 09:50:17

I think his wanting to hug you is a clear risk. No doubt he has some regrets, but it is also a bit of an attempt to regain control.

Imagine it from his perspective - up until now, all of the cards have been in his hands. He is beginning to see he is losing some of them. Even though he no doubt has some feelings for you, the hugging is about sucking you back in and regaining control, even if he isn't consciously aware of it.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Thu 18-Apr-13 10:22:00

Stopping a few other things you do automatically over time will also help it sink in - laundry, reminders about appointments or picking things up, buying gifts for his side of the family, alternative dishes when the rest of you fancy a particular meal he doesn't care for - that kind of thing. It isn't being petty it's establishing that things are changing and you won't be working as a team.

Charbon Thu 18-Apr-13 13:03:01

On your other thread from long ago OP, you said you'd told your friends and your brother that you were divorcing having made the decision to divorce mid-thread, so I am puzzled about why you are attributing so much significance to these current conversations with friends? Or that any of them are surprised, as they appear to be the same friends you told last time?

fuckitybollocks Thu 18-Apr-13 15:00:40

Surprised because they thought we have fixed things. I have not old brother yet, I will see him in a couple of weeks and will probably tell him then. I am not sure.

You see it was not just me that was taken in other people were too. I totally stopped confusing anything about my marriage for two reason, it felt disloyal and also because I felt like a broken record circling through the same shit again and again.

One of the safest things for me is that we get on. We like the same tv programmes, enjoy the same food. In the while we like each others company. Him saying yesterday that I forced him to tell the truth was a shock. That made it clear to me that the friendship i thought we had was worthless. If you remember my story you will recall that I liked him and thought that separate having done something so wrong he was a really good man. That belief has been really shaken, his actions have not been those of a good person. That we do not even have a true friendship is shocking.

It is the step from being a good person who has done sown thins wrong to being a not nice person at all. That difference between being someone who told a lie to being a liar.

fuckitybollocks Thu 18-Apr-13 15:10:45

Actually with one exception the friends are not the same people. I have been more thoughtful this time in gathering support for me rather than support for us. It feels very selfish writing that. I am going to be more selfish though. With the exception of doing the best for my children I am doing the best for me now. I think last time I was still thinking of us as a couple. I also really thought that we could still regain the partnership we had. Now I know otherwise.

I de regged mainly to avoid the embarrassment of people who (rightly as it happens) doubted me. There is an event of that here now. I feel as though I am being told that I am useless. I realise that this might be my interpretation based on how useless I think I am. With one exception those I have spoken to over the last few days re those who believe I can be successful in creating a better life. That is important for me right now. I still have doubts about my ability to separate, I need to find courage.

fuckitybollocks Thu 18-Apr-13 15:21:08

Sorry I meant to say. I de regged nd so not know what name I used. If you know where the old thread is please would you pm me a link? I think it would help to read it again now.

fuckitybollocks Thu 18-Apr-13 15:32:39

Blimey. Not only too much but too many typos and predictive text changes to follow. A gold star for anyone who makes it through that crap.

And note to self, consider never ever posting from phone again!

Charbon Thu 18-Apr-13 16:47:24

I have searched and managed to find the old thread I was on. I've PMd you a link to it. Curiously enough I hadn't re-read it before I posted last night so we were both relying on our memories!

I often suggest that posters read their old threads, because people's memories often play tricks on them. I think that's what has happened here with you. Your recollection today of what happened and your mindset then didn't match my memory of what you'd said on that other thread I was on. Then again I hadn't remembered that you'd disclosed on that other thread that your husband and your friend had been disloyal to you, but you had.

I think you've still got some way to go before reaching full realisation I'm afraid. I think you are in grave danger of being in the same position or worse in a year's time, so I support the advice to make divorce formal even if your husband stays at home for the time being. Divorce is not irrelevant. In fact it would be a significant and meaningful action in that you've never got this far before.

Something seems to have changed in him and he appears to have stopped any form of pretence of feeling. There could be lots of reasons for that, but it might have an impact on your control of this situation.

fuckitybollocks Thu 18-Apr-13 17:28:31

Thanks charbon. I tried to pm my thanks but it did not appear to work. You may have several thank yous!

fuckitybollocks Thu 18-Apr-13 17:30:32

I don't know how much has changed in him, or whether I am (I hope) less easy to manipulate. I will have read later, I suspect it will be rather grim reading.

fuckitybollocks Fri 19-Apr-13 01:02:46

That was hard to read.

fuckitybollocks Fri 19-Apr-13 07:30:31

I think I am different even is the script is the same one, or at least similar.
I hope so anyway. I know that I am not in that black hole at the moment.

I have been thinking about whether he is less trustworthy because he cares so little I am not sure. He still looks and sounds the same. I was good yesterday. Saw people. Did things and did not cry. I feel very wobbly this morning. Sad and scared. A lethal combination.

AgathaF Fri 19-Apr-13 15:16:35

How are you doing now fb?

fuckitybollocks Fri 19-Apr-13 21:35:26

Bad. Really bad.

alterego2 Fri 19-Apr-13 23:08:12

fb - I am sorry you are in such a bad place and struggling so much. I can't offer you any help or advice - mainly because you are in the place I expect to be in in a few years time. My H also had an affair, we are also supposed to be working through it, we are not. Not really. I can only offer you empathy and a hand to hold. You can be strong and you can get through this. And, if all of MN is right, you will be happier. Me - I believe in those MNers!

I hope, one day, I'll take the steps you are taking. I know you're doing the right thing

alterego2 Sat 20-Apr-13 10:11:26

fb - how are you this morning? Hope you got some sleep and are feeling stronger today. What are your plans for the weekend - anything nice?

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Sat 20-Apr-13 10:51:17

Bit of a plateau after the intial push required to embark on a new phase. The whole saga drains you of emotional energy. He isn't going to suddenly make things easy for you. Spend time apart, go out take the DCs or just use a couple of hours by yourself. If he confuses you by appearing to be affectionate or deeply interested remove yourself and get some space between you.

Like the scrappy old car you mean to dispose of that suddenly runs smoothly, the cantankerous cat that purrs and nuzzles the day before you plan to give it away, he might up his game, not for unselfish reasons, but self-preservation.

fuckitybollocks Sat 20-Apr-13 11:03:59

I am seeing friends tonight, we should both be going. I don't want him to come so need a reason, for the children not the friends. I will then stay at the friend who has in the past been disloyal. I do not have many options. We shared a bed last night. He came to bed after I slept. I woke a few times and felt that wave. Now about to do some work for a while. I have new head phones to try that will make a bit of a barrier. I wish I could get angry rather than simply broken hearted (a trite phrase but so apt). I will feel then I think. I feel very weak right now, not least because yesterday he told me how pathetic I am. I think I need some anger to be able to dismiss his attitude. Does that make sense? I have been worrying about the practicalities too. My salary will not pay the mortgafe here although we have down sized to the smallest possible. I will have a ,lifetime of renting, which is not actually a big deal to me, I think I should stay here for the mo for the children. However I hate this house and will not have any money spare to sort it out.

Very very bleak. Sorry this is a brain dump.

AgathaF Sat 20-Apr-13 13:16:43

Is it unusual for him to come into your bed? I assumed it was always one or other of you on the sofa, and wonder, if that's the case, why did he suddenly get into bed with you? It's really not on when he knows what the current situation is.

I'm sure it is normal to have good days and bad days. The problem at the moment is this limbo you are in. When he has properly moved out, you will be able to get on with your life, rather than waiting for things to happen.

fuckitybollocks Sat 20-Apr-13 15:23:20

It is only the last week that we have been sleeping apart bee have always slept together and had a pretty good sex life. I am managing to make my brain do some work today so that is good. He is out at the moment so I do not feel as awkward. This morning he was perfectly civil and nice starting conversations and even touching me affections pity in the kitchen as though he had forgotten. I find that hard.

MadBusLady Sat 20-Apr-13 15:42:18

Can you see that as your cue to get angry again? This is a guy who called you "pathetic" yesterday (nasty thing to say under any circumstances) and now he's touching you affectionately? confused Is that really down to his memory problem, or is just long-term memory that's affected? Because it really sounds like he's trying to mess with your head.

When he touches you, how do you respond? Could you try to get into the mindset where an "affectionate touch" from him is as unwelcome as a touch from a colleague or a stranger? You don't have to say anything or make a big deal out of it, just look a bit disgusted and flinch away.

fuckitybollocks Sat 20-Apr-13 16:34:56

I totally ignored the touch and him

He is now fed up that he is not coming out tonight.

AnyFucker Sat 20-Apr-13 16:35:53

....and ?

fuckitybollocks Sat 20-Apr-13 16:53:38

And nothing. I am not sure I can face it, I certainly can't face it with him there. I can't face another evening here with him either. It hurts so much. He went and had a cup of tea with my mum earlier, he had to get some stuff from her loft. I think he honestly does not tea,use what he is doing. Our lives have been so intertwined for so long there will be so much to give up.

The people I am seeing this evening are my friends although obviously he knows them.

AnyFucker Sat 20-Apr-13 17:28:22

Yes, nothing

How he feels isn't the priority here

You should go out, and do it without him

I can see you will probably back out though, and spend another miserable evening seething inside while he acts like Mr Cheerful

fuckitybollocks Sat 20-Apr-13 17:39:56

I have told the friend whose birthday it is that I am coming, I have just received a text saying I will be picked up at 7.30. The only decision is whether to stay at friends overnight. Am waiting to find out about sport commitments tomorrow.

He does act like mr cheerful at points , I really don't knw how he feels. He has just been in to see if I am ok? What the fuck do I say to that. I said 'fine'. What else can I say?

Family roast tomorrow with my mum that will be hard.

AgathaF Sat 20-Apr-13 17:44:55

Does he have to be there for the roast tomorrow? These weeks waiting for the GCSEs to be over are for you both to untangle your lives from each others. That needs to start straight away. I realise that your DC will be eating with you tomorrow, and you want to maintain appearances for their sake, but couldn't he or you make an excuse for him not to be there.

He needs to stay out of your bed too. Does he realise that?

badinage Sat 20-Apr-13 18:09:51

You're not going to end this relationship are you?

fuckitybollocks Sat 20-Apr-13 18:50:54

I am. I am working very hard at making sure the dc don't see me sad, and perhaps more importantly that I do not give husband any excuse for comforting or patronising me.

I feel like I am defending myself here as well as at home. I hoped there might be some women who understood about trying to make this ok for the xx, in particular the one with Exams and would reinforce my attempts to be separate my life from my husband. Getting ready to go out is proving hard. I can't remember ever going out with these people of n evening without him. To say I feel rejected and vulnerable is an understatement. It really does not help when virtual strangers treat me with contempt and as though I am utterly spineless and useless

badinage Sat 20-Apr-13 21:06:53

You've had support in spades. Some people support your decision to stay till the exams are over and some don't.

I don't, mainly because I think you'll find another benchmark when the time comes and also because I don't think it's a good environment for a student to live in when his father calls his mum 'pathetic' and there is that level of disrespect and sheer contempt.

But even those who support your decision are suggesting you erect some boundaries. Get legal advice so that once June comes, you're ready to go and start the divorce proceedings, sleeping separately, stopping affection and any dialogue about your relationship, coming to an adult agreement that the relationship is over and that for the next 8 weeks or so, you'll be civil co-parents and housemates and nothing else.

Unless I've missed something or you haven't posted about it, all you've said to your husband is that you want him to move out, then you failed to follow it up. You left it to your very dubious friend to tell him the relationship was over.

If you're serious about this, tell your husband the relationship is over and that you will divorce and live separately once the exams are over. Agree some boundaries and ways of co-existing and co-parenting over the next couple of months. Go to a solicitor and get the ball rolling on the divorce.

If you're not serious about it, well you won't do any of those things.

fuckitybollocks Sat 20-Apr-13 21:26:06

You are so wrong. You have missed, or I have not said, so much.

I had a boyfriend before my husband who said I would fail my driving test. I didn't. He said he only aid that to get me to pass he thought by saying the negative he would ensure I did the positive our of bloody mindedness or something. He wa wrong. He made it harder nor simpler.

badinage Sat 20-Apr-13 21:33:34

I'm not using any kidology on you, I assure you!

Where am I wrong then?

You said you were going to have a conversation about boundaries yesterday. Did that happen then? I was assuming it hadn't, otherwise sharing a bed and hugging wouldn't be happening.

Have you told him you're divorcing him?

fuckitybollocks Sat 20-Apr-13 23:27:10

There was no hugging.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Sun 21-Apr-13 00:45:49

I for one wouldn't want to pick exam time to drop a bombshell but badinage has a point don't use this as a delaying tactic in the hope H will become Prince Charming.

Is your heart really in this notion of separation and divorce? Only on Tuesday we read of an unhappy woman, 5 years on from her H's affair; sex with her H is soul destroying and the only time he says he loves her is when a 'crisis' (ie when she tells him she can't bear this shell of a marriage any more) looms. Are you resolved to stop this awful purgatory?

Hope H respects your wish to keep home a calm place for DS who is revising. Don't let him use that to manipulate you to show any co-operation you're uncomfortable with.

Your DCs are teens on the cusp of adulthood. If their parents declare a split they may already even suspect all's not well. They will fly the nest soon and very naturally will pursue their own lives. Parenting them can be done when no longer husband and wife. Some upheaval, the end of an era but marking a new chapter.

It will be easier all round if you start to distance yourself even feign absorption in a new hobby - a language? - just to make space between you and H. Calling you pathetic, what a smooth talker. Boundaries, state and keep to them.

Easier to act normal in someone else's house (providing there's no history between them and H - now is the time to call on trusted allies). Go for Sunday roast and enlist your parents' help to make demands on your spare time somehow, in reality occupy time by getting legal advice and so forth.

badinage Sun 21-Apr-13 01:42:15

The kids knew about the affair 5 years ago so I doubt we're talking 'bombshells'.

FWIW having lived through more examination periods with kids than I've had hot dinners, I think the ideal is no huge shocks or lifechangers and a calm and happy home. But I'm reminded so often by teens at work that adults consistently underestimate their perceptiveness and intuition - and their ability to see and hear rather better than middle-aged eyes and ears think they can.

If the OP was saying that she'd sat down with her husband and agreed a protocol going forward to deal with the next 8 weeks, while outlining very clear expectations of what will happen once the exams are over, then it might be the least worst solution for a stressed student. Especially if there were very firm boundaries in place (physical and behavioural) and a firm plan being put together about dissolving the marriage and arranging separate residences by the end of June.

But there's none of that apparent here.

AgathaF Sun 21-Apr-13 08:26:55

fb hope your night out last night was ok. FWIW I completely support your desire to wait until after the GCSEs are done. I can see that you are putting some boundaries in place too and making some changes to your shared lifestyles. I think though that he, realising that he is on borrowed time with regard to living together, is now piss-taking. That is going to take some firmer boundary setting from you. This situation is only going to last a few more weeks though (8, 10?) so hopefully, if he sees you making these changes and putting things in order (solicitors, paperwork etc) then he will realise you are serious and start making his own arrangements to leave at the right time.

These next few weeks are going to be the worst time for you, but once you are there things should start to get better and your life will move on properly.

fuckitybollocks Sun 21-Apr-13 09:54:55

Night out was good, I did miss him at points but it was ok. I am off back home shortly knowing he will be out with footy stuff.

Bad, I can't see me stating that I would discuss boundaries. Neither have I said that we have not discussed divorce. We have. We have started to talk about how finances will work but not much. Thus far it has mainly been a case if him assuring me. it will be ok and working out what we can afford in terms of rent etc. . Keeping things as easy as they can be at home is my absolute priority. What I have stated is that I will not go to a solicitor yet. Apart from anything else we need to clarify my complicated pension situation. I have a few, none large, that I may try and put into one pot as current scheme is a good one.

I have used mn for emotional support and somewhere to vent. Practicalities are the least iof my worries right now.

Going out with that group without him last night and not responding to the child related text he sent was a far clearer message than a solicitor.

badinage Sun 21-Apr-13 11:30:39

From Agatha on Thurs:

It is probably worth having a calm conversation when your children are not around, so spell out how the next few weeks are going to work. Namely that as you are in the process of (now, not some distant thing in the future) separating, hugs, cuddles and sex are now inappropriate. Polite respect is the way forward. Some kind of timescale of when you expect him to have found somewhere to go, sorted bank accounts etc, packed his stuff. He doesn't really seem to accept that it is happening, does he?

From you in reply:

Again, you are right Agatha. I will do that, but tomorrow (Friday not the tomorrow that never comes).

I didn't imagine these posts.

fuckitybollocks Sun 21-Apr-13 12:58:32

No, I did not link that with your pestering about boundaries. We did, of course, talk while children were at school etc. mainly about money where (geographically) and also a little about how we would deal with child arrangements.

Can I please ask that you do not continue hassling and expressing your belief that I will not manage to separate on this thread? I totally understand it us a public space etc but I honestly think i have enough on my plate without being hectored by you.

fuckitybollocks Sun 21-Apr-13 13:00:28

Sorry that should have read where...he would live.

fuckitybollocks Sun 21-Apr-13 13:28:50

I have read back through and wondered if I gave grounds for the comment about 'letting my dubious friend' tell my husband the marriage was over! I can't see it although I know my posts have often been muddled. Just to correct that though, no one told my husband the marriage was over except me.

AgathaF Sun 21-Apr-13 13:47:31

I'm glad you enjoyed your night out, and as you say, that will have sent a message to him.

Hope you have some nice plans for the rest of the weekend.

fuckitybollocks Sun 21-Apr-13 13:53:59

I do, other than I have to go food shopping which I hate. Incentive of a child coming dog walking with me after though! Just curing hangover with bacon rolls, then off.

badinage Sun 21-Apr-13 13:55:53

Oh don't worry OP. I had no intention of coming back to the thread anyway after you tried to claim your own posts were a figment of my imagination, especially now that you've also claimed you didn't realise that what Agatha was saying, related to boundaries hmm.

wonderingagain Sun 21-Apr-13 15:59:24

biscuit

fuckitybollocks Sun 21-Apr-13 16:05:12

Alter, why do you say you will be in this position in a few years time? I really hope you will not. I would not have invested so much in maintaining our relationship if I had the slightest inkling of how life would be. I am not saying that I would not have been in a two parent home for the last five years, just that I would not have put so much of myself into the relationship.

I have been thinking, all along and excaberated by some posts here I have considered myself to be weak beyond redemption. What if it was actually him who was weak? What if my confusion has been to a large extent the result of him being both unable to say the relationship will no longer work and also unable to try and make it work? I am not explaining this very well. He used to be both strong and compassionate. There is little evidence of either now. Ages ago he said some thing along the lines that his affair had to be true love, ergo he could not truly be in love with me, otherwise all the deceit pain etc would have been worth nothing. I think the affair might have been a weakness, and his failures since to be a result of him trying to justify it?

This is pretty irrelevant now but it does kind of make a bit of sense of stuff. He is most emphatically not the person he was. I lost that person a long while ago. I don't know if this makes me crosser or sadder, however it does help me feel as though I am not individually culpable. It has taken two people (perhaps three but that is in the past) to perpetuate this miserable existence. The ow and my husband constructed a narrative based in me being inadequate, including at looking after my children. I went along with this which I deeply regret. Anyway, alter, don't allow this to be you. If you are truly in a similar situation start now with building your confidence, make friends and do things for you, I wish I had not been so ready to buy into the idea that it was my fault, that I was not worth more and that his feeling sorry for me meant I was to be pitied.

wonderingagain Sun 21-Apr-13 16:16:39

Hi. I think you have a point in that he hasn't the courage to let you go. 30 years is a long time and he is probably as nervous of separating as you are. It is completely understandable and you will need support to make such a huge change in your life.

AnyFucker Sun 21-Apr-13 16:22:55

Sure he is "nervous" of separating. He will lose his domestic service provider and convenient sponge to mop up all his inadequacy.

It's not a reason to give him any sympathy, understanding or waste any more of your precious life trying to work out though.

wonderingagain Sun 21-Apr-13 16:28:30

I agree with you AF but it helps that OP has insight as it will help her to let go of him.

AnyFucker Sun 21-Apr-13 16:37:43

Indeed

However, I feel the time is ^waaaaay" past OP trying to "understand" where her husband is coming from.

Such thoughts have kept her with him for many years more than is healthy for her.

Time to let them all go and think only of herself.

fuckitybollocks Sun 21-Apr-13 17:12:14

I was thinking of myself, and how I allowed my life to be like this.

He has just assured me that he will continue to pay mortgage for five or so years, and that he will be paying more child support than required. I wish I could cut all ties. I went through this before. I cannot afford to pay a mortgage and live. There is no housing support unless in rented accommodation. If I move out of the house into rented there will be limited support as I will be intentionally homeless. How do people work this out? There must be a way.

wonderingagain Sun 21-Apr-13 17:19:40

He's paying though so why do you need to rent? Why do you want to cut off all ties? You can't, he's their Dad and there will always be ties.

ithaka Sun 21-Apr-13 17:40:21

For the record, I think you are right to wait until after the GCSEs. My mum walker out in the run up to my exams and it was hell. I did think that she could have waited a few damn months, if she had been so unhappy for years. After 30 years, what is 8 weeks? Let your child get his exams behind him and then the will have the summer to come to terms with his parents marriage ending. That is not weak. That is strong, sensible and nurturing.

fuckitybollocks Sun 21-Apr-13 19:05:13

I would like to cut out any financial dependence, obviously not for the children. I don't think that will be possible but I will ensure I am as well informed about choices as I can be.

Ithaka thanks for that. I realise it is different for everyone and for each family but I think I should at least this for my family. It will also help me to prepare in terms of pennies and practicalities.

What do you think about mutual friends? Do friends tend to maintain friendships with one half not the other? For those of you further down the line is it hard when your friend is seeing the ex? I can't get my head round this bit at all. He said this afternoon that we could both continue seeing certain friends. I am not sure. Not really my decision I know but I am wondering.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Sun 21-Apr-13 19:39:49

I'd have thought this is feasible as long as the friends also want to see you both. Sad when people are effectively asked to choose between two halves of a couple that split. Sadly some do revel in your drama.

Only thing is, if you are aware H is also in contact you'd have to guard against disclosing anything they may repeat to him.

wonderingagain Sun 21-Apr-13 19:53:34

It might be that your friends will be able to cut through any nonsense should he try to use them against you. It could work in your favour to keep in good contact with them.

Charbon Mon 22-Apr-13 01:12:51

Can I ask what date you envisage for the split?

8 weeks really isn't very long to find separate homes and distentangle your joint finances.

Having seen that other thread and the comments from others about earlier threads, is it really true that you didn't realise until recently that your husband was never going to fully participate in this marriage? It was so clear-cut and obvious on that other thread and you appeared to accept it then. Are you saying that you actually thought then that everyone who commented had got it wrong?

If that is what you're saying, I do think it would be helpful to look at your own thought processes and ways of processing information. Also how you present information.

It's so strange reading this thread where you talk about new realisations, when in reality nothing much appears to have changed apart from some more acceptance from your husband that the relationship is over.

This might look to unfamiliar posters therefore that you are coping with a relatively new situation and that this explains your bargaining and reluctance to face practicalities and establishing new house rules, but as I alluded to in earlier posts there is for me a strong sense of deja vu about this and no real sense that you have changed your mindset, only that you're reacting to your husband's altered position.

The clues to that are in what's preoccupying you; his weakness, the damage the affair wreaked to his personality, whether friendships will survive the separation. Meanwhile more pressing matters such as finding houses, separating finances, agreeing the best environment for your children during this short time, establishing house rules and new ways of relating seem to be on the backburner.

I was also puzzled about how ignoring a text about your child could be interpreted by your husband as being more meaningful than plans for divorce? I would have thought that it's in the family's best interests now if you agree to co-operate civilly and with maturity and with no games being played or obscure messages delivered.

Time I think to have a proper conversation about how you will interact and in this relatively short period of time, some practical work on achieving the separation if your timescale is really only eight weeks?

fuckitybollocks Mon 22-Apr-13 09:06:08

a strong sense of deja vu about this and no real sense that you have changed your mindset, only that you're reacting to your husband's altered position

Yes probably. The text did not require a response, it was to let me know child was home safe. Usually I would have texted back and had a conversation. I didn't.

The date is June 17th. 4 days before anniversary but the date is around children not us.

I still have a feeling he is chucking away something worthwhile. Yes I do wish so hard that he will realise and start fighting for us. Yes I have repeatedly fallen for the brief charm initative. All along I have gone round to this way of thinking each time he says loves me nd looks at me with love. This has become increasingly rare however and there was nothing over last two months. Until this last ten days when he has told me he loves me more often that I could count.
In between telling me he doesn't.

Yesterday he was discussing with everyone what we would do to the house. Forgetting that it would not be his home? I don't know. He started that conversation not children or me.

We discussed money again yesterday and how that might work. He seems to think, at the very least, we will be friends. Going to the same gatherings and helping each other if stuck with something. His phrase not mine. I don't think I will be able to do that, it would just be a continuation of what you point out is a repeating pattern.

I know how I should feel and what I should do, when it comes to it so far I have always failed. Each time this adds to the low opinion he has of me and the low opinion I have of myself. I am trying so hard I really am. But I am so sad. I have to stop crying inside and get in with it all, I know that and try and take the initiative. It was me who started convo yesterday. I had been checking out divorce proceedure on gov.org. Will avoid solicitors if possible. There is little to divide an the children will be relatively autonomous

I don't know what else I can' say. I wonder if you think I am a leech or troll. That would be preferable to who I really am but no. This is me still trying to live.

fuckitybollocks Mon 22-Apr-13 09:34:02

Not just trying to live, trying to reach a better way to live.

So far this time each time he has told me he lived me and we could sort this out I have turned away. Yesterday I stupidly told him I loved him and he just said I know before I turned away. I need to get to a point I do not see him.

cakehappy Mon 22-Apr-13 09:57:00

Hi OP, just read through your entire thread. I dont usually post much but thought I would on yours as its quite disturbing. I am not sure I have ever met someone as deluded to the truth infront of your eyes as you are.
Your husband has lied and cheated on you, he is unkind to you, he has sex with you because he only wants the physical pleasure, he has told you such, he doesnt love you anymore which he has told you, and yet you hang around him begging for scraps of "love" and affection. And when he feels llike it he throws you a bone and you get all hopeful again at how he might be the husband you want him to be.
You have seriousl blinders on regarding him, you need to see him how he truely is, a lying shit. When he says " you are pathetic" he means, I can treat you like total shit and you put up with it and still come begging for more. I can treat you and do whatever I want and you wont stop me, I can even live here without being a true husband and loving you and you take it. Its no wonder he thinks you are pathetic because who, with any self respect, would put up with this?
Get your head out of the sand OP, and get some guts and get out of this marriage. You are well and truely being manipulated emotionally by someone who doesnt have your best interest at heart and is completely using you. I recommed you read Last train to loserville's thread and see an example of a woman who refuses to be treated badly. Sorry if this is harsh but its time to dry your tears and see life as it really is. The only one paying a harsh price is you and the only one you have to blame after all this time is yourself.

AnyFucker Mon 22-Apr-13 11:28:21

you should post more often, CH

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 22-Apr-13 11:51:27

Yy ^^

fuckitybollocks Mon 22-Apr-13 12:36:31

Yes she should.

Charbon Mon 22-Apr-13 16:11:12

Where is your husband going to go on June 17th? Or is it you moving out? I'm a little confused about that.

So in essence what you are saying is that the biggest change is that he's being open in words and behaviour now that the relationship is over?
So this latest catalyst has come from him and not you?

I would think that while he had no alternatives in the past 5 years, he worked out that in order to keep minimum levels of service coming, it was necessary to lie occasionally and fake an involvement that was not there - and to his incredulity, you believed him.

I would therefore have a strong suspicion that a better alternative has loomed into view in recent months and this is why he is permitting more honesty and acknowledgement that the relationship must end. That could be in the form of an OW or more unlikely given what we've learnt about his character, a realisation that the relationship is destructive to both of you and your children.

This is why I'd have some concern about how much control you have over events and timescales. You might not be sighted about the full picture here and how someone else's timescale and circumstances might be pulling the strings in the background. Did he leave to be with the OW last time and if so, did he give any consideration to the timing of that in terms of yours and the children's lives? If you've got a child taking GCSEs, I'm assuming that this child was about to start secondary school/taking SATs around that time?

If he's having another affair, of course it makes no real difference to the outcome, but it might make a difference to the timing and your understanding of what's happening now and why.

Regardless of any of that, I would reinforce the suggestions to broker an agreement of how you will interact during the next 8 weeks and to aim for polite and civil communication. So the appropriate thing to do if you send eachother texts about the children is just a polite 'thank you' reply because this conveys acceptance of the situation far more convincingly than ignoring eachother, which is about point-scoring in adult games that people play.

wonderingagain Mon 22-Apr-13 20:46:46

OP I agree with others that you only have yourself to blame for not leaving sooner but I can understand that after being together for 25 years, now 30 it must be extremely hard. You grow into each other like trees after that long and you may have to break a few branches to extricate yourself.

fuckitybollocks Mon 22-Apr-13 21:02:30

I wrote a long answer about two hours ago and posted it, where on arty has it gone? It even lacked spelling mistakes and typos as I used laptop so I could scroll back and answer everything.

Ok trying again but not on laptop so bear with me.

He will be moving out, we have, or rather I have thought about alternatives but that is best for now. Last time he went to his mothers but he will not do that agin. Not least because he would be some distance from the children. I do nit think there is another woman, but then who knows.

It was July five years ago that he moved out and he came back just after christmas. I actually have three children ( I am pretty sure that is the only detail changed but I am sure someone will call me if there ar others) currently year 9, 11, and over 18 and working. The middle child suffered hugely last time. He is trouble with a very sensitive inside. I am v worried about him still, not least because I fear he might choose to go to dads. Dad does not ask where he is going, expect him to come home and generally supervises less than I do. Mind you I have nit managed to keep him out if trouble so who knows.

The oldest will be ok, of course sad but he will be least surprised. He was obviously so much more aware last time and is also I think more aware that things are nt right. The youngest, well I think he barely remembers how we were. This is the saddest in some ways but fortunately he has family he is close to who model better relationships. He is a vey pragmatic little soul, terribly independent and steady. To reverse the last concern I am more worried that he will not want to spend much time with his dad. He likes his own bed

The txt thing, I was so proud at not trying to make it into a conversation but you are right, not to acknowledge it was wrong. I was v glad to know son as home and yes perhaps it was a game I was trying to win.

More tears today but I think a little further forward. We have outlined how finances might work for the ne t five years or so (until children leave home) in very broad terms. I am also clearer about the things I need to find up from a practical perspective. I asked and he said he has not done anything abut moving out. To be fair I usually do relent don't I? I reiterated that I would not live feeling unloved any longer and pointed out out that iwoud be ok. We re affirmed the June 17 date.

I can't scroll very easily so have written this out more from remembering what I wrote last time than directly addressing things. My next step (after dealing with work) is the CAB I think. I have a few questions I am finding it hard to get answers to especially bearing in mind son is over 18 and works and will, I hope, remain part of the household for the near future.

I have also decided that I need friends to be separate for a wee while. I am wobbly and can't bear the thought of wobbles coming back to him. We have also decided not to tell family, unfotauanekty for me that means not my brother, until June.

I don't know what else to say. I am struggling. He tried to hug me gain this afternoon and said he did nit know if he wanted to move out. I asked him to stop the hug and said I would not continue this. But I cried. I went out with the dog. I hate him seeing me being so pathetic. It would be so much easier if he stuck to his guns. You know I really don't know what he wants form life. I am reacting to him still. I feel sick and knotted. Another eve without any wine so that is good. I don't want to rely on that in fact I want to drink less. I can feel a slippery slope there but I've better pain relief now and go not hosp at the weekend do nerve block injections so that is a major excuse gone. . I am very scared about lots of stuff in the future. In other news I did some work on the book thing today so that is a positive and had a really good walk.

I can't think what else to say. I don't know if I have missed anything and this is a book in itself anyway oh e thread with the stunningly brave woman, yes I am watching it. I wish I had the self respect she does. There has been little to respect myself for for a long time now. Career is going better than for years so that should help.

fuckitybollocks Mon 22-Apr-13 21:03:59

I do know I have only myself to blame. I feel crap about myself.

fuckitybollocks Mon 22-Apr-13 21:32:03

Yes to sats btw.

That did not stop anything at the time. I am pretty sure life was bad and it affected son but he did not leave until just after.

I have thought I was on top f things before taking positive steps and being firm. I do want it to be different. The pain is physical as well as emotional. I am exhausted by it all. No need to worry about another educational excuse though, college is unlikely to be a goal. I just hope we can find him something that is both enjoyable and legal to occupy himself with until he grows up a little.

Charbon Mon 22-Apr-13 22:55:40

Where's your husband going to go then, if not to his mother's? If he hasn't got somewhere in mind, will he realistically find somewhere in 8 weeks?

Presumably your son has got to stay in some form of education until he is 17?

The attempts at hugging have got to stop I think, along with the 'I Love Yous'. I'd strongly counsel you to have an agreement about how you will relate during this period. He's not still sleeping in your bed is he?

AnyFucker Mon 22-Apr-13 23:18:21

Love, every time you post I hope that you have moved a little further on, at least in your own mind.

I am not seeing it. Are you feeling it ?

fuckitybollocks Tue 23-Apr-13 07:29:25

There is rental property available here. It should not be impossible..

We are sharing bed, with zero contact. The whole point of this is not to let boys know. As was said before teenage children will kow when someone sleep on the sofa.

I have said that thir needs to be minimal polite contact and no physical contact at all.

I don't know how I am doing af. I have been writing everything but am pretty sure I am not writing the right things. The wave if disapproval is almost as strong as that at home. I just don't know. Each time he says he is not sure we are doing the right thing by splitting I say the right thing - yes we are, no alerntative etc. but I guess he knows me even better than you lot he he know me to be weak and ...oh whatever.

Last time i suggested he went to his mums he just refused. He ended up just not going. I an scared e will do that this time. He is not abusive and he owns half the house. Then it will have to be me that leaves I suppose. I am scared of him going and scared that he won't. I can't believe my life and me has spiralled down like this. I have not seen the assertive young woman I was for a long longtime. I don't know what I am feeling.

AgathaF Tue 23-Apr-13 08:00:43

I can see that you are trying to make things happen. Unfortunately, he is not really playing ball, is he?

I think this is where some legal advice would be useful to you, and demonstrative of your real intentions to him. From his point of view, nothing has really changed. There is a date set a few weeks in the future for him to leave the house, but he acknowledges that he might not be willing to do that. He senses change in you (that's why he is increasing with the affection etc), but doesn't want to accept that this is final this time.

A single solicitor letter, setting out your formal separation from 17 June, and what that will entail WRT him finding alternative accomodation from that date, would hopefully concrete these plans in his head. That would be a real change from what has happened before. It wouldn't be just of case of you talking with him. It would make it real.

Please consider taking this step. It doesn't mean you would have to engage solicitors any more than this at this time if you don't wish to, but it would formalise this properly to him and anyone else who needs to understand that it is formal.

fuckitybollocks Tue 23-Apr-13 08:40:37

I am waiting for a call from dr and will then telephone cab for first appt. I have lots if questions I hope they can help with. I think the rwnt should be straightforward. We only moved house a couple of months ago so all financi stuff is accessible and up to date. It Lao men's I have reason key up to date ( it will take a while for new bills to settle) figures for me to work things out on.

Do you know if a sol would write such a letter in the free half hour you get? If not any idea of cost?

AgathaF Tue 23-Apr-13 09:19:07

I don't know how much a letter like that would be, but if it is a fairly standard sort of letter, without compications, I'm sure that some sols could give you an idea of cost over the phone, or within a free half hour chat. Otherwise, do you have legal support via home insurance, work, union/profesional body membership etc? You may be able to get some decent advice through any of those.

AnyFucker Tue 23-Apr-13 09:24:59

He isn't going to move out on 17th June

He knows that, you know that, we know that

All through your thread you have said instigating a divorce would be the least meaningful thing you could do

I say it is the only thing you should be doing.

fuckitybollocks Tue 23-Apr-13 10:17:28

Actually I do have some legal advice through work. I will find out about that.

I hope you are wring AF.

AnyFucker Tue 23-Apr-13 10:23:47

"hope" isn't enough

Hasn't the last 5 years shown you that ?

wonderingagain Tue 23-Apr-13 17:39:34

You are married so you get to stay in the house until the children are older. It shouldn't be that complicated for a solicitor. He probably knows this which is why he's trying to avoid moving out.

fuckitybollocks Tue 23-Apr-13 17:57:42

There is no question at all that he would not expect me and the children to stay in the house. Money is tight so I do need to explore what us best all round financially but I think staying here and eldest nominally moving out with his father is likely to maximise the resources at the family's disposal.

I will know more after I have been to cab. Initial assessment appt on Thursday.

AgathaF Tue 23-Apr-13 18:20:25

Good that you've got an appointment booked with CAB and that you can get some legal advice via work.

fuckitybollocks Tue 23-Apr-13 18:28:53

The work bit was down to you. I did not think of it at all! Thanks.

Charbon Tue 23-Apr-13 22:50:08

As I see it, you're really not getting 'waves of disapproval'. You're getting extremely well-intentioned advice from people with only your best interests at heart.

But I don't think it's going to move you on or help you if we don't challenge some of your thinking.

As it stands, you're at the mercy of him looking for a private rental that your finances can absorb - and he's doing nothing about that, despite the clock ticking. If he doesn't do that, he'll still be there on 17 June and unless you take some action yourself to move out or put the house on the market, you'll still be no further forward.

I expect we can all see that you're not 100% committed yet to the idea that this marriage is over and that this is why you won't press the issue about him finding a place to live or starting divorce proceedings. It also feels like this is the reason you're still sharing a bed too, when we all know that teenagers wouldn't blink an eye if they thought that parents were sleeping separately for a while because of snoring or your back discomfort.

Being in such close proximity to him in the marital bed is really bad for your acceptance of the situation Fuckity. Despite all he's done to you, it's painfully obvious that you still love him and harbour hopes that he will have an about turn and fall in love with you again.

You said at some point in the thread that you didn't want to talk about practicalities and wanted to concentrate on making the emotional shift required. The truth is that focusing on practicalities such as divorce, sorting out the separate houses and sleeping apart are necessary to help you along with that emotional shift. All the while he is still there tugging at your heartstrings, in such close physical proximity and there are no really concrete plans or signposts that the marriage is going to end, you won't move any nearer to acceptance. Neither will he of course and maybe that's what you want?

By the way, it's probably irrelevant now, but in the interests of fairness to another poster, in your post when you were talking about telling your 'disloyal friend' about the marriage ending, you said this:

"I do not totally trust her but telling her before my husband does feels right for me, it feels more in control somehow."

I can see why this looked like you'd told the friend before your husband because that's more or less what you're suggesting in that quote. I wonder did you know she'd blurt it out to him when he took her home?

I still find it bizarre that this woman who was intimate with your husband despite knowing how much he'd hurt you by his affair, is still so interwoven in your lives and is still playing such a major role in proceedings.

fuckitybollocks Wed 24-Apr-13 07:31:29

I intended that to read that I wanted to tell her before my husband did.

I can see it was not clear though.

Putting this house in the market having moved in vey recently is not an option. I have considered moving out. The capital in the house is from my parents. He is clear that he will not make it part of my matrimonial sweep up and divide but I am worried. I need to talk to cab about this. Because other than that to be honest I would love to move out. Again lots of reasons for that not least that I so not like it also that would mean I get the fresh start, new bed etc.

The bed sharing. I will yHink, it is tricky to scroll back and forth on the phone. I need to read what you have written and come back.

The friend does not play such a huge tole as you think I think. No contact with hee since Saturday. I suppose being friends with her is like forgiving a spouse that made a bad choice. You forgive and move on but a little worry remains. I think she will be past of my husbands new life not mine. That upset me but now is just another one of those things.

Last night the atmosphere was better here. A better balance between me freezing him out if conversation which the children would all see and that if a couple being coupley. Much politer more distant but some exchanges about tv and football. He spent the eve on right move but I did not ask or look to see exactly what he was looking at.

I have hosp appt first thing about my admission on Sunday. Back home lunchtime I guess. Tomorrow cab. I have some questions written down but any contributions to the list welcome.

I do hate sharing the bed it is rely horrible. It does feel necessary yo keep up this facade though. But I know some if what you might have written might be true. I do want this relationship to be a happy one, however I can't see that ever happening so the next decision is I do not want to live with somone who does not love me. Husband has also said he wants more out of life than we have now. Ironically it will be our anniversary the weekendwnd he moves all his things out. Kind of right in a way. We will end on whole numbers.

I think I am doing everything I can ATM. From what I have read online I need more info before commencing divorce stuff. Oh and we wrote to pension commie a for both of us yesterday to get cash value figures. I need to check out what assistance I would get (and working tax Verdi for example the online calculator says I will get some). What about eldest son eye and importantly I'd I can do anything to protect money form my parents.

I think that's everything.

fuckitybollocks Wed 24-Apr-13 07:38:53

Oh. Except to respond to AF. I know I am moving on. It might not be at the pace recommended but I am further firward than I was last week. More knowledge has helped also I have done some good work and that makes me feel more confident. I do love my job.

I hope that the epidural Nd nerve block stuff at weekend will mean I can go ba k to work. That will be huge as he works from hone so there is little respite here. The banter of teens will be great. I have had a couple if emails from the kids and I think they will be pleased to see me back.

AnyFucker Wed 24-Apr-13 07:59:59

Good luck with the medical stuff x

fuckitybollocks Wed 24-Apr-13 08:01:53

Thank you. Tis crap. Getting myself moving will make huge difference. I could not walk the dog yesterday despite the beautiful weather. That dies nothing to improve my mood!

fuckitybollocks Wed 24-Apr-13 13:31:28

I have asked him if he can 'go on a training course'. That can't last seven weeks but I reckon we could make it last a couple of weeks and very little bit will help. He says he will think about it. Because he works form home it is nt as easy as packing a bag and a laptop but I hope he will do something. Ideally we would do that from Monday. I am certain that the children will not think this odd and I know they will be fab if I am still a bit stuck after Sunday.

fuckitybollocks Wed 24-Apr-13 13:56:18

We have just gone through how finances might work. He wrote to the building society yesterday and I will try and go to cab tomorrow. I got a tiny bit tearful but no sobbing. I feel so sad for the children. In some ways it may be harder for them to move between two homes, especially as they will not have their own bedrooms with their dad. It is all e little things, horseplay while doing the dishes, watching horrid fils together - they like them even if I don't obviously! We have also discussed a couple of things he will try and get done before or shortly after leaving. The plans we had for the house this year will come to nothing but doing a couple if things, especially for the children's benefit will help them I think.

Upstairs now having a weep, least these horrid bones give an excuse for staying upstairs!

wonderingagain Wed 24-Apr-13 14:07:02

I think for someone who has lived with the same peeson for 30 years you are doing pretty well. You've got a plan and there are a lot of pressures on you to retain the status quo, such as teenagers and schools. You are being very brave to let go of your son, and honourable that you are letting him do what's best for him. Many parents would be fighting over this and you are putting his needs first.

I hope Thursday goes well. Remembee you can always let out a room if money gets tight. I know lots of people who are doing that.

fuckitybollocks Wed 24-Apr-13 16:00:28

I have let rooms before! Sometimes fun, sometimes not!!!

This is so hard, he just went to call me darling and stopped at the d. How can he do this? I don't understand how someone can not even want to try and keep families together and happy. I don't understand how someone goes form love (we were def in love immediately before that women arrived on scene) to what feels like distain. He is being really lovely re the pain I am in, bring cups of tea etc. he has sent me spreadsheet of what he intends to pay when and at first glance it looks generous rather than mean.

We have decided on jobs to do before he leaves and have started booking workman etc. I do not understand how he can be so unaffected by this. He talks to the children with ease even when discussing plans that he knows have a different end point that will be.

Charbon Wed 24-Apr-13 16:29:28

Fuckity on your other thread it was established that he had always given less to your relationship, had been selfish, lazy around the house, and created dirt for you to clear up. The affair - as they so often are - was just a manifestation of all of that. So there was a high level of disrespect present before the affair and unfortunately, when you took him back and were willing to settle for even less than you had before, it made his disrespect even greater. So be careful of thinking that all was perfect before the OW came on the scene.

He is able to pretend so effectively with the children because he is able to lie easily and get others to believe him. I'm sure that must have been true before the affair; it was definitely true during it and since then, he's been able to lie about being committed to this relationship and you've believed him. I feel sorry for the children that he is raising their expectations in this way though and he (and unfortunately you) might suffer some fall-out from that when the truth becomes known to them.

He is unaffected by what's happening because he knows that it's the right thing to separate, for both of you but especially him. As I've said before, he has got to the point where he thinks the alternative would suit him better. You might never know what got him to that point, or it might be revealed later. He checked out of your relationship long ago and his acceptance of that has been longstanding, so the emotional shift for him is nowhere near as huge as it is for you. He knew he was lying about his commitment remember - you were in denial of that, despite all his actions being incongruent with the words he spoke when put on the spot.

You're sounding more accepting of some of these sad truths though - and much less defensive which is to your credit. You sound terribly sad, but that is completely normal and is something you have to go through and not around.

Negotiating a 'training course' sounds like an excellent idea to help these weeks run down. If he's also on Right Move at least it looks like he's taking finding a rental more seriously. It's perfectly in order to ask him about that though and to discuss where he will live.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Wed 24-Apr-13 16:51:30

He doesn't have to be a total monster does he. That's what confuses you. He cares up to a point... but never quite enough.... He can afford to make little gestures that will pacify you without putting himself out.

fuckitybollocks Wed 24-Apr-13 16:56:29

I have just looked in a mirror. No wonder he does not love me. I am so old and tired, three stone overweight too. He passed a comment about the pile of drugs yesterday that was on the side after I have picked up my prescriptions form the chemist. I think he is scared of being old and looks at me and knows he is getting older. I am such a total wreck.

fuckitybollocks Wed 24-Apr-13 17:03:13

H has never been perfect. Selfish is but one unattractive trait. But what we had was built on a very solid base, I thought.

No one else will ever remember my dad and the things he did.

I am also so worried about him. A foreign said the other day that his forgetfulness was almost as though he had dementia. I can see that now. She spotted it when we were discussing something for one of her children that friend knows nothing about what is going in. Have I finally decided I can not live like this only to abandon someone who is ill? Someone I promised to acre for? Suppose he is ill and the children think that I am terrible for deserting him! Suppose he gets one of his utterly lost spells and there is no ne he can get help form. Oh god.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Wed 24-Apr-13 17:41:03

Suppose he is ill and the children think that I am terrible for deserting him!

Terrible, how do you mean, like having an affair with someone following your surgery, causing you to have depression?

Age happens to all of us. Issues like weight gain, smoking, you can address those. Confidence-sapping relationship with someone you tied the knot with 30 years' ago, that can be finished.

Bailing out of a marriage by seeking a quick thrill with unexplored genitals doesn't make him Mr Wonderful. Coming back because it ended, glumming around and acting like he did you a massive favour by waltzing back, didn't make him Husband Of The Year.

Reading posters' threads describing the shock and hurt of their spouse's behaviour, many often include the line or something like it, "It's like he's had a personality transplant/a breakdown/mental illness, it's so out of character".

If you genuinely fear that your H is ill, suggest he seek a consultation with his GP for starters. If you delay long enough then yes there is a chance an Act of God could afflict one of you and tie one to the other. How would that work, feeling as you both do?

If you want companionship on his terms, minus loyalty then he's your man. If you want more, then he has been withdrawing for years, and can't offer what you crave.

Charbon Wed 24-Apr-13 18:17:32

Come on.

Remember you said that you wanted this thread to have a different script?

Last time you got to about this many posts before you suddenly 'realised' the boys might choose to live with him, so you reversed all the decisions you'd apparently made.

Don't let it happen again.

AgathaF Wed 24-Apr-13 18:18:15

You are moving on, that much is obvious from your last posts. That's all good. I would still urge you to seek proper legal advice in addition to CAB, particularly in view of the fact that your inheritance is tied up in the house.

Please don't doubt what you are doing now because of his memory issues. They are a separate issue, his issue. You cannpt be tied to a man who has treated you appalingly and with such contempt lately, just because he may or may not be ill. You have done your time with this relationship, put too much into it, stayed too long. It's time for you now.

fuckitybollocks Wed 24-Apr-13 18:58:00

Putting 'realised' in quotes gives the impression you are sceptical to say the least. I had not ought about where the boys might live. I had not even ought about them having a choice. I had not thought about the impact if a child lived with him, on that child. At that point I could not risk it. Whether he will get gsces or a criminal record I needed to leave it until now. Wile I still had the ability to exert a little control I needed to do it. Now it is up to him largely. He is of an age where I cannily support rather than dictate. I hope I will be able to offer that support regardless of where he lives. Huge difference there.

This thread already has a different 'script' to use your phrase.

A no point ever have we been this organised.

I will contact legal people via work n,ver when I am back in to get it Agatha. I think that as regards the inheritance I will be relying on his conscience regardless. Matrimonial property and all that. I need to consider disparity in earnings as a result of my career taking such a back seat. Also that we paid more into his pension believing that would protect us both. We have requested CETV, I may need to offset cash against pension. I don't know. My stuff is all public sector and mostly it old enough to be final salary although none have many years in. That will be for anther week thin. Roughing out how income might work month by month is fine fr now. I need to think in chunks, while children still want to live at home, when I wil be alone but working and when I will be retired. So much.

I am worried about him ough. He needs to go to go for next prescription but no way will he admit to increased STM loss. Just wont happen. It was hard enough to get him to seek help about his fits becauseof course he did nt remember them!

fuckitybollocks Wed 24-Apr-13 19:16:10

I keep thinking that he will not be living with his children because if me. Because I am unlovable. Because even for his children he does not want to be with me. Because I could not live with the lack of love. He said we had more than most but it clearly was not enough for me. Revisiting how I felt when realising such a vulnerable lad would probably go to him and away from me has made me think about how this will still have such an impact. I kept reading here that for teens to see loveless marriages modelled was such a bad thing. But was it., there was friendship and laughter. It is all too late now. The children are going to is him so much, apt obviously form the one I think will want to,live with him. Ha ha though that will cramp his style!

Charbon Wed 24-Apr-13 19:25:41

I am sceptical.

I notice behavioural patterns and scripts and there are unfortunately significant similarities in both on the two threads of yours I've been on. I do think some of your behaviour needs challenging, both in this situation and also the way you present information to posters and in turn, receive it.

But that doesn't mean I'm unsupportive, or that I'm not willing you to succeed this time. Constructive support comes in many forms and some of the support you seek on this online forum full of strangers might not be what you want to hear, or what your friends might risk telling you.

But it's often what you need.

AgathaF Wed 24-Apr-13 19:28:18

I keep thinking that he will not be living with his children because if me - that's just not the case though fb, is it.

He was the one who bailed out of the marriage with the affair. For whatever reason. He could have done almost anything but that. If he wasn't happy, he could, and should, have addressed any issues, made more effort himself, talked things through with you, arranged counselling. He didn't though. If it was that he was just offered it on a plate and so took it, well, he didn't have to do that either. In that case, greed cost him, and you, the marriage. Either way, nothing you could have done about it. He was the only one who could have altered that path.

Since then? Minimal effort on his part, using you, taking you for granted etc etc.

You are not unloveable. He made bad choices and you are all seeing the consequences and have done for the past five years.

50shadesofgreyhair Wed 24-Apr-13 19:50:10

Hi OP, two years ago I was posting for advice on here, (as Saffysmum) because I was, after a long marriage, and 4 teenagers, going through a similar situation as you. I got great advice. I feel for you, but I really think that the more time you spend analysing everything the harder the decision will be to follow. For what it's worth, things became unbearable a few weeks before my daughters GCSEs and my eldest boy's A levels. I had decided that we would wait until exams had finished. But it was totally soul destroying - living with a man I no longer knew, who tolerated me at best, and ignored me most of the time. Anyway, one night, a few weeks before GCSEs I chucked him out - and it was the best thing I could have done. My kids knew that things weren't good - they all benefited from the new lighthearted atmsophere at home. I filed for divorce the following week - and have never looked back. I think you are over thinking things - the kids will be fine, because you will be fine. But you will only be fine if you gather all your strength, and treat yourself as you would your best friend. Put yourself first, chuck him out and save your hugs for your kids. I wish you all the luck in the world - but please stop trying to fix the unfixable, stop blaming yourself for his appalling behaviour. And start your new life. the sooner the better. xx

AgathaF Wed 24-Apr-13 20:19:46

I remember your threads 50shades - didn't realise this new name was you. So glad you're doing well, and the kids too.

fuckitybollocks Wed 24-Apr-13 20:29:01

That is good to know 50. I have noticed some very good advice you have given.

Youngest child has been talking this eve about what we will do to house when, and about a holiday for all of us in the summer. This is shit. He may go on holiday, but not with me.

50shadesofgreyhair Wed 24-Apr-13 20:29:10

Thank you Agatha x

fuckitybollocks Thu 25-Apr-13 05:06:17

Have been re reading it all. This is hopeless. I don't know what to do, probably because there's nothing I can do. Can't sleep. Alcohol has worn off and back pain is bad.worrird about work. I need to get back die all the reason in the world. How can I? Can't drive right now I hoped it would be better today. Can't see i will be able to go into town.

I want a cup of tea so bad! I think I will give it a try. I hoped I would eke up and everything would hurt less. I am dreading Sunday.

50shadesofgreyhair Thu 25-Apr-13 06:54:03

I can relate to so much that you post FB, I really can. Right now, you are in the middle of all this, so can't see the wood for the trees, let alone think straight.

You have to remember that you can't control what he might do. Yes, he might go on holiday without you. My ex did - after months of denying the existence of another woman, three weeks after I booted him out, he went on holiday with her. The world didn't stop turning. I got over it. You will too.

The reason, I think, that you are trying to make all this right, is because you don't like yourself and you blame yourself for all that is wrong in your marriage. This is inevitable, when a man like yours, who sounds a lot like my ex, wears you down. You lose your sense of self, your confidence dwindles and they are able to project all their wrongdoings onto us. My ex told his kids that if he had stayed with me, he would have had a breakdown. He tried to project it all on me - the kids, being teenagers, saw straight through it all. They knew what I was like, yours know what you are like. But I was so worn down by him, I took it on board and believed him. LIke you now, I tried to move heaven and earth to try and fix it, because you think you are the problem. This is the crux of it all - the problems are his, not yours. The affair was his, and not your fault. He has to face up to the fact that he has caused this. And if you can, you need to let go and let him face up to it all.

Your marriage is dead in the water. You are spending valuable time which should be spent on healing and moving forward, on something that can't be fixed. You can either chose to move forward, throw him out, file for divorce, or you can stay in limbo hell. I chose limbo hell for a year, before something snapped. My only regret is that I wasted that year, so learn from my mistakes and move forward now.

The fear of what is ahead without him is crippling you, but I promise that it won't be as bad as what you are going through now. You will, first off, get back a sense of pride and dignity - that will strengthen you, and because you will have space to grow - you will go from strength to strength. good luck x

fuckitybollocks Thu 25-Apr-13 07:43:02

I asked him last night if we could try again (sent text to him on the sofa) I so regret that. I have told him I regret that. Today is a new day. Back very painful so not sure what I will do today. Will have a bath and see if that unknots things a bit later. The misery is not causing the back pain but being tense sure does not hell.

S far today I have been dignified, I know it is early yet but you are right 50 I have lost my dignity and pride along with everything else. How on earth did I get into a state of being so dependent on him for any sense of self worth?

I know I will get a load of crap for posting this, and I have thought about disappearing. However just reading posts like that above really does help. As do some of the fantastically supportive and understanding pms. If nothing else I do not feel so alone. This is a horrible time and not telling many people is reducing support. My sister has just texted asking us all over for a BBQ on Sunday. I will decline as prob not going to be fit to go, but would be diff. I guess we could make sme kind if excuse for husband actually so perhaps not insurmountable.

Today is the day if the spreadsheet! I have never mastered excel so this will be a steep learning curve. If I can't get to cab then at least today will produce as accurate a list of all financial comings and goings as I can. We have not been here long enough to assess utilities but other than that I should have most of the info I need. Actually may try telephone appt for cab.

AgathaF Thu 25-Apr-13 08:03:06

fb - last night was a blip. Move on now. I'm sure that everyone in your situation has the odd blip, so don't beat yourself over it.

Could you talk to anyone in your family about what is happening? Your sister maybe? Could you trust her to keep it to herself? I really think you need some good support from reliable sources who have your best interests at heart.

I hope you do manage to get to CAB. I also hope you don't get a load of crap for last night. Keep moving forward smile.

50shadesofgreyhair Thu 25-Apr-13 08:12:55

When I went through similar, I was so desperate for everything to go back to how it was, that at one stage, I was prepared to compromise and settle for far less than I deserved. I realise now that I couldn't envisage a future without ex, so I made all sorts of excuses to justify putting up with it. And like you I took on the responsibility of the reasons why our marriage was falling apart. He, naturally, was happy for me to do this, it suited him perfectly. It was such a bad, horrible existence then FB, because I lost myself. I saw myself through his eyes, and when he treated me like rubbish, I thought that was all I deserved. You need to get off this horrible merry-go-round. It is truly soul destroying.

I think a lot of your back pain is exacerbated by the tension and stress you are carrying around. It is a huge responsibility and burden that you have taken on - the repair of a marriage. So you need to let it go. Be brave. You can do this. You do deserve so much better. Nothing will be worse than what you are going through now.

Glad you are moving forward in small steps. You will gain in confidence and strength when you take control. A spreadsheet is a good idea, and CAB appt is a better one. I went to CAB and they advised me on a SHL (Shit Hot Lawyer!) who was amazing, and fought my corner. Once I instructed her, I felt empowered and strong. I had taken back control, for the first time in years.

Please tell people - even if it is just a few people. You need support, and I got amazing support on here, but you need RL people on side, and they will be on side, and you will draw from them. Don't make excuses for him, (I did this for years). If you are anything like me, and we had been married 22 years, I was used to looking after my ex, and I realise now that we weren't equal - I enabled him to treat me badly, I excused him, I covered for him. Breaking free from a needy, egotistical man, who puts himself before his wife and kids is a revelation. Like being given wings to fly. But it takes time, so small steps, and don't disappear - because we want to help, and I do understand where you are right now. But if you muster all your strength, and lean on others, you'll get through this. x

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Thu 25-Apr-13 08:58:50

Personally I'd rather you felt you could post here honestly and get it all out of your system than go about in rl and not feel able to come back because you have the additional worry of anyone judging you. That way you'd miss gems of information from those wise posters like 50 to name but one who can lend an ear and importantly give you solid advice.

Hope you can find rl support you can trust.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Thu 25-Apr-13 08:59:33

Sorry, that should have said, 50.

fuckitybollocks Thu 25-Apr-13 09:13:47

Thank you everyone. It was just a blip, not to be repeated. Have been thinking about telling my mum. But should would just worry and be powerless to do anything. I think that would be cruel. My sister is a bit judgemental and will most definitely be hard on me. She will, and has in the past, take the you must stay together for the children attitude. She does not have children and adores mine, she will see keeping quiet and keeping things stable as the best thing for them.

I will think about it. Off to do some numbers now.

50shadesofgreyhair Thu 25-Apr-13 09:26:32

It won't be cruel to tell your mum. Yes, she'll be upset. Mine was when I told her, but she still supported me. Yes, she worried, but believe me, your mum will worry about you anyway, if you stay, because she will see you become more and more withdrawn and unhappy. Mums worry, its their job, God I worry about my kids constantly, but I would much rather know what is troubling them than be kept in the dark. As for your sister, she doesn't have kids. She might be of the view that you should put up and shut up for the sake of the kids - but it won't work. Teenagers are perceptive, they know more than you think. They will have friends from broken homes. Mine coped well. They adjust. Its not great - but its life. You didn't ask for any of this love, so don't shoulder all the pain from everyone. They will cope. Give your mum a chance to support you. I told my parents a week after I had thrown ex out. Because I needed to be strong to do this. I needed them to see that I was ok. I really wished I'd confided in them earlier, but like you I wanted to protect them. I understand this, its part of your nurturing nature. But people will cope, if they see you are coping. Have a good think, and keep posting.

AgathaF Thu 25-Apr-13 13:33:58

Talk to your mum if you think she will support you emotionally to do this. I'm sure she would rather know than not know.

I'd avoid telling your sister though, if she is likely to judge. That is definitely not what you need at the moment.

KittyB01 Thu 25-Apr-13 17:25:10

Hey I just read through your thread - thank you for pointing me to it.. but moreso thankyou for taking the time to come onto my post and help support me when you are obviously going through a horrendous time.. You really have a lot to give..it isn't easy when your life is around your ankles to even think about another's pain let alone somebody you don't know.
I can hear in your posts how hard this is for you and I certainly understand where you are coming from. Waking each day and hoping it will be different.. wanting to try again.. you have given so much of yourself to this man and now it is time for you. What are you doing that makes you feel better? Even if it is walking the dog, or browsing the shops on a sunny day.. have your hair done, paint your toenails, make sure you wear nice underwear... even if this feels like painting over the cracks at the moment you will definitely benefit from it. If he comments, or questions, just say you are looking after you and protecting the woman you want to be again for the future. These words were given to me six months ago and it does help with little effort/money.
Keep strong, remember, it is what it is, and you are doing the best that you possibly can under the circumstances x

fuckitybollocks Thu 25-Apr-13 17:39:50

thank you.

You know what I want most right now? I want him to ask me to give it another go. I want to be the one that tells him to get lost.

I know, just game playing and therefore to be avoided but it would be nice.

Doing numbers. It will be very tight. I am not quite sure how I will manage month by month even if he pays the mortgage. Have requested cetv. Stuff. Trouble is so much of his salary is bonuses. So what he can afford in guaranteed salary is very little. Ho hum.

AgathaF Thu 25-Apr-13 18:02:24

fb don't let the numbers put you off. There will be ways around that, even if it means moving, or taking in a lodger, or maybe extending the length of the mortgage loan. Probably worth speaking to your mortgage lender to see what options they can suggest.

Personally, I hope he doesn't ask you to give it another go. I think it would mess with your head, which would be such a shame at this point.

fuckitybollocks Thu 25-Apr-13 20:00:32

We have written to mortgage people to ask to change to interest only. Can't extend term as have just moved and we will be paying until retirement anyway. Rent round here would cost more than mortgage and this is probably cheapest house that would do! It's a bugger isn't it? Don't worry. He will not ask me. I was just flirting with the IDE of why I would say. Polite but cutting was the aim.

Wish I did not have tears when talking to him.

AlnwickRose Thu 25-Apr-13 20:13:32

I think if he asked you to give it another go you'd say yes.

AgathaF Thu 25-Apr-13 20:49:56

fb the tears will stop when this situation has moved on, when he has moved out and you can start the healing process. At the moment you are slap bang in the middle of a shitty situation, so the tears are to be expected.

Keep going with it smile.

fuckitybollocks Fri 26-Apr-13 09:13:13

I am not telling my mum. I would kind of having to comfort and reassure her and I can't do it right now. Every time I woke up I thought about more numbers I need to add to the spreadsheet. I feel so sad and numb. I need to do some work but it means sitting and that is nit comfortable. It also means being downstairs with husband. It is better hiding here. I pointed out an advert for a new leggings agency in the local paper. I don't know what eh has done about that yet.

I need a plan for today otherwise I will will just stay in the bed and spiral down. Am trying to think of some,one I could meet for a short walk or a coffee. This is going to be a horrible weekend I am dreading Sunday, and dreading the possibility of depending in him for cups of tea etc post op.

This is going to be a very hard couple of months. I will ask him today if he will think about pretending to be on a course for some, of the time.

AlnwickRose Fri 26-Apr-13 09:40:48

I found a place, rented it and moved out all within a week, so you've got plenty of time. However I was very motivated!

I think if you want to then there is nothing wrong with him leaving before GCSEs, however if you're ambivalent then there's no harm in him staying too. 8 weeks after 30 years is not so long.

fuckitybollocks Fri 26-Apr-13 12:39:52

There is plenty of time, especially as there is rental property available. I would like to see he is making moves though. I don't want him to suddenly say at the beginning of June it will have to be another month. Eight weeks should be plenty of time to sort it all out.

fuckitybollocks Fri 26-Apr-13 15:38:11

Have gone throu the outline of expenses done by my husband and it looks fairly accurate. There are some things I need to add that he has not thought of but it will provide a good basis to start planning. I are also been reading about divorce and have an idea of the different ways you can do it. Keeping costs down is imperative but I am not sure I can cope with doing it without legal advice. I feel very stupid right now. I don't trust him, but I don't trust me that is the crux of the matter.

fuckitybollocks Fri 26-Apr-13 19:16:38

I just can't believe he does not care enough to try and make things better. That he has never cared enough to try.

50shadesofgreyhair Fri 26-Apr-13 21:50:40

I know, it is horrible to go through it all. I was stunned when my ex told me he no longer loved me, and I can't believe how cold and detached he was. But this is about you now, and your kids and your future, which is going to be good. You have to just get through some practical stuff. Get a solicitor, go to CAB...don't do it without legal advice. You might save yourself money on a solicitor, but a solicitor will get you the best deal. Shop around, there a solicitors that do half an hour, or an hour for free - take advantage of that, and find one you gel with. Then you have to do the hard bit - but you must start to detach from this man. You must start to stop treating him like someone you know - and someone who has your back. From now on, you look after you. I think if you can get him out, asap, the better it will be for you to move on. Limbo hell - that's where you are now - and it can only get better. I've been there - I know. xx

AlnwickRose Fri 26-Apr-13 22:12:11

Surely a lot of it must be down to his memory problems?

fuckitybollocks Fri 26-Apr-13 22:31:52

Alnwick, that is exactly what I worry about. But we have just had another talk prompted by me getting weepy I am afraid. He just does not want to live with me. Full stop. I think the lack of me,Eros might have cause but certainly adds to this. But, he remins cold, almost cruel.

I know it is over I know it is best to wait a couple of months. I just don't know how I can live with this. I am so sad and lonely. He did have my back now he is the enemy. I hate this. I am pretty sure he is planning on jot offering maintence for me. Being enrols to children while still dependent. But I will be so poor, not to mention homeless, when they leave. I have done loads of reading today and I reckon I should get more financial assistance. But, not if he excludes bonuses which are dependant on how hard he works. This means it could be anything or nothing. I am so tired. I am so waging to as him to come toned tonight, then I will any a hug, and then... But I don't want to. I want to be so much stringer than this .

fuckitybollocks Fri 26-Apr-13 22:34:09

To be honest there is no point blaming memory problems if now, in the moment if you like, he does not love me

catsrus Sat 27-Apr-13 04:10:43

What he is planning to offer is beside the point fb after a 30 yr marriage the law considers you both equal partners and assets will be divided an fair and equitable manner. You need to get some good legal advice to ensure that happens.

fuckitybollocks Sat 27-Apr-13 08:18:48

The issue is less what is fair and more what we can afford. Early talks indicate he will be paying more than three times csa calculations in order for kids to stay here. The equity (what little there is) is mine but I can pay the mortgage. Oh all too complicated ESP for on a phone!

I will get legal advice before anything is finally agreed. Just makes sense to sort as much as possible ourselves now.

fuckitybollocks Sat 27-Apr-13 08:19:31

Can't pay mortgage.

fuckitybollocks Sat 27-Apr-13 09:45:00

I think the trickiest bit is losing my best friend. Although it is perfectly obvious I lost hima long while ago what is here still looks and smells the same. He just does not sound the same.

Btw, just in ase any lurker a are doing the divorce thing. I downloaded and have nearly finished reading an excellent book and only 99p.

Divorce & Splitting Up: Advice From a Top Divorce Lawyer [Kindle Edition] by Marilyn Stowe.

wonderingagain Sat 27-Apr-13 12:20:03

Hi fb, I've been busy but surprised to find that you haven't moved forward. I do think that you need to listen to 50 who says you are over thinking this. Spreadsheets may be a necessary evil but you don't have to do it in excel. You can write it by hand, or do it on word. The solicitor could do it for you.

I think many women get the man out of the house first and then go through the divorce thing.

What is stopping you telling him to leave? What would happen if you changed the locks one day?

kittybiscuits Sat 27-Apr-13 12:30:16

Hi fuckity have been lurking and feel for you so much. When you can accept it's over you will liberate yourself from the constant 'why doesn't he love me'. Not all Mum's and family members are supportive. Quite the opposite. The fact that they are not supportive can be one of the things that leads people to stay in relationships where they are treated like shit. He wants to leave you. You need a solicitor and to take every penny you are entitled to. Let him think about himself - he's good at it x

kittybiscuits Sat 27-Apr-13 12:31:07

Aah rogue apostrophe - Mums!

wonderingagain Sat 27-Apr-13 12:39:26

Oh dear kitty you have just hit the nail on the head. Family wants to keep everything the same and keep me 'needy of them' but at the same time 'cared for by him'. (in my case - not sure about fb - a bit of projection going on here)

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Sat 27-Apr-13 13:15:07

Is your female friend who's a solicitor a loyal friend or the one you don't fully trust? It could help if you have someone in your corner who can help tackle prosaic stuff. The momentum of starting things off could carry you through the upset of initiating this break.

fuckitybollocks Sat 27-Apr-13 17:43:46

I think things have moved on. I have spreadsheets, two. One with all assess and liabilities that is pretty complete it just needs CETV and I have sent off for mine. I have also arranged to get figures for amalgamating all my little bits of pensions. The other has a monthly budget thing. This is not yet complete.

The lawyer friend is utterly trustworthy although not for legal ad ice! She has spent many years in compliance. She would come to legal things with me but it would be very hard to organise around both our work schedules. We shall see. She will be a god sounding board anyway. I have a male friend who went brought an acrimonious divorce a few years ago. He might be best for attending with me. No rush for this as yet though.

I have a builder starting on Tuesday to get some essential work done while there are still two incomes to pay the bills...

I go into hospital tomorrow and have arranged stuff to cover this.

I advanced done a fair amount if research looking at how a finial settlement might be achieved. There is insufficient funds for a clean break. I have also looked out paperwork that demonstrates that the capital in the house is mine, although I am we'll aware that in law it is a matrimonial asset.

I have also got new glasses!

Considering that I have nit been fit this week, and that I am still very sad and stressed I think I have down well. What is absolutely more to the pint home has been settled and stable as far as my sons are concerned and we have commenced a revision timetable.

I have ruled out telling more people at present. I do not want to defeat e primary purpose ie keeping the finality of it all form the boys. It is good in a way that I have had a bad bone week as it is easy for them to imagine that any tears they might be aware of, separate sleepi at times, and general short tempered ness is due to that.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Sat 27-Apr-13 18:12:21

thanks Good luck in hospital tomorrow.

fuckitybollocks Sat 27-Apr-13 18:25:47

Thanks. I am not looking forward to it. I do not really want my husband to pick me up in case I am tearful after the anaesthetic. Oh well.

50shadesofgreyhair Sat 27-Apr-13 19:47:29

Thirty years FB, that's how long you've been with this man. I think, in just a few days, you've come such a long way. You've spent most of your life with this man, and I can relate to how a future without him feels like you're having your right arm cut off. That's how I felt. I think you are doing really well, and good luck with the op. You should feel proud of yourself. When you've recovered from the op, take small steps, towards a better future. See CAB, get a solicitor, and take it from there. You're doing well, you really are.

fuckitybollocks Sat 27-Apr-13 20:23:19

Thanks.

I know people have doubted me but I so feel more confident I can do it this time.

50shadesofgreyhair Sat 27-Apr-13 20:39:28

I don't doubt you, I totally understand how big a change this is for you. Small steps. X

fuckitybollocks Sat 27-Apr-13 21:13:51

X

fuckitybollocks Sat 27-Apr-13 22:32:14

Almost a whole day without tears. First for a wee while. Am pleased.

kittybiscuits Sat 27-Apr-13 23:07:09

fuckitybollocks that is brilliant. good luck tomorrow, and you can do this x

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Sun 28-Apr-13 00:01:17

Tears for him are one thing, tears for yourself regarding him are another. You have been under considerable strain and better to shed a few tears than lug them around bottling them up. He is probably used to them so don't worry about him taking any notice. If anything he will misjudge your growing determination.

They're not necessarily a sign of weakness if you can say to yourself well this hurts like pulling a splinter out but has to be gone through and then you start to cry less and feel better.

fuckitybollocks Sun 28-Apr-13 09:42:04

Oh I hope so. Was the only one who came to the ward alone and unfortunately sitting here is even with a book insufficient to stop me being weepy. And that is before I have a anything done! I hate this when will these pretty in voluntary tears cease?

itwillgetbettersoon Sun 28-Apr-13 09:56:19

You are doing do well. Tears today are inevitable but they will not be for him but for you. I'm late 40s and just emerging from a marriage and it is hard - whatever anyone says - we all had dreams of the future etc and now those dreams have changed. However we will get new dreams which will be even better! Good luck for today. X

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Sun 28-Apr-13 10:49:14

With you in spirit, take it easy today.

fuckitybollocks Sun 28-Apr-13 21:15:28

I really really hope today was the low point the only way is up and until then 'keep on keeping on'.

The friend I worry about called in with roses, she is stalwart in some ways even though she made a terrible mistake and if I am honest I don't feel entirely secure.

I am so desperate to go back to work Tuesday. I really want to do it. If anyone has energy to spare for positive wishes please keep your fingers crossed for this for me.

fuckitybollocks Sun 28-Apr-13 22:17:32

Just in case it was not bad enough after crying for most of the last two hours I asked him What i could do so he would lov me. In the course of that conversation he pointed out we would tell the boys that I did not want to live wih him (prob missing out the because he did not love me) so boys would know why he left. I askd him how I could be good enough, he said almost angrily we can sort it out. Meaning he would stay unde duress. I said no and went to bed. I have asked him to sleep on sofa, boys know I am a little sore and tearful post treatment so it will be ok.

Very very very sad, but the last times we have gone through this cycle I would be in bed with him now. I stood a tiny bit firm by saying he could not sleep here tonight. No wonder he has no respect for me it is no more than I deserve.

AlnwickRose Sun 28-Apr-13 22:35:51

Well done for starting to break the cycle, that's not an easy thing to do. Best wishes!

fuckitybollocks Sun 28-Apr-13 23:15:27

I have just read old thread (again). Shit. I am such a fool. He us still downstairs on sofa though. But I would give almost everything to feel that he loved me.

Today has been hard be motions run higher after sedation. I underestimated hoe lonely it would feel being in hosp on own. Everyone lose in waiting room had something there. I leant too much on son 1 in that he was coming to get me. He was still too pissed this morning and could not drive. I had album discharged myself and by that time was sitting at roundabout outside hosp feeling a little shaky and v cold. Had to ring my sister she was great in that she came to get me but it was an hour wasted on her busy day.

This eve son no two sore at me. I cried and cried. The poor Lad thinks all the upset was due to him. It was not. It was jus the straw after a very low day.

I ish I had not read old thread . This is hopeless, not the divorce I think that is inevitable but me being person I feel inside on the outside. I am alone and that is a consequence of my behaviour. I think I have tested husband by driving him away because I did not know how else to feel good enough. Wel this time we both appear more determined to move on. Who can blame him. I cry and he clealy thanks I am pathetic there is little compassion. And no love.

You know if he was ill and in hosp and I was unable to be with him I would feel nearly as bad as I do now? Except now I feel utterly ejected and useless

Reading old thread. This is hopeless. We will spilt but I will still be useless. I wish I was not me.

MayYouBloomAndGrow Mon 29-Apr-13 00:36:03

Don't know what to say, except that I am reading and listening and with you in spirit.

You are not useless. You have come a long way. Sorting the practicalities is a good first step, but the emotions may take time to catch up.

Don't slip back now... Plough on. I am sure you will begin to feel considerably more valuable once you are not living in a soul-destroying relationship. Chin up. We may stumble and even fall a few times but we will get there in the end.

fuckitybollocks Mon 29-Apr-13 07:34:10

Yes we will smile

V small consolation prize - he looks like he did not sleep well... miaowww

MadAboutHotChoc Mon 29-Apr-13 07:38:47

Sorry to hear you're having a wobbly.

You invested so much in the marriage when it was already dead - instead you need to be focusing on yourself, rebuilding your life, developing your interests and work as well as a network of friends.

That way you will feel stronger and have better self esteem.

WhiteBirdBlueSky Mon 29-Apr-13 10:01:16

It will get easier.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 29-Apr-13 10:08:00

Hello again you were almost bound to feel low after the hospital. I don't get why you being alone should be the "consequence of your behaviour", why is it your fault? You make yourself sound like a booby prize.

Your H grew discontented, that doesn't mean you failed him. He wanted something fresh and different after a very long relationship, not better, not more valuable. Plenty of women gain extra pounds, or smoke, or face up to illness, their partners don't go off and have an affair. Plenty of women are faithful loving wives, their partners still go and cheat on them. Don't look on this as you being wet or pathetic or useless. By the sound of it H hasn't exerted himself.

At present you are at a very low ebb, emotionally and physically, as we all find at times it is tiring feeling exhausted! One person decides he isn't in love with you, but you have your sons, you have your parents, you have your family and friends. By anyone's standard that is worth having. Your self-respect has taken a battering but you can do this.

fuckitybollocks Mon 29-Apr-13 10:34:02

I am a lot better this morning every way. The list form the hosp yesterday included don't drive don't use cooker don't make legal decisions. Think we should add don't get involved in conversations with men who don't give a monkeys!!!

Have suggested putting house on my name. Has advantages for him too in that he would be able to the out a mortgage. Hopefully that will come about. Let him think for a while.

Back to work tomorrow, really can't wait!

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 29-Apr-13 10:35:34

Glad you feel better.

fuckitybollocks Mon 29-Apr-13 11:05:03

Thank you. I feel like ECG low is shorter and the times in between are almost long enough to do something constructive! Last ev and night was bad but explicable.

fuckitybollocks Mon 29-Apr-13 21:51:41

He has explained again that he has tried to love me but can't. He warns to leave but can't. He feels sorry for me. What a fucking failure. Have to go to work tomorrow for every reason under the sun. If I cry at work I will never forgive myself. I don't think I forgive myself anyway. I have made him so unhappy. Going to bed now. Hopefully sleeping off the last but if anaesthetic then lots if slap on in the morning and get in there. He says he cannot remember ever loving me. He says he is jealous that I can remember. By perhaps I was wrong? I have been so wrong about so much. He has always been selfish and lazy, perhaps I was not worth it even then? Even in good times I would have had to ask him to be around when I was in hosp or not well. Most major events have been overshadowed by his sport. I even had to wait to be collected by him form hosp after having son number one because he had cricket. I have been so stupid. Of course he does not think I am worth anything when I have spent decades feeling worthless. I think if I had been stringer and bette he would have loved me. I don't know what happened. When we got married I was actually pretty lovely. Everyone thought he had got lucky! I was also very career orientated and swore I would remain so. I didn't. I wanted to go back to work but only got away with it for a few months. It meant he missed sport unless he drive his son 40 miles each way to leave him with my mother in law. My wanting to work was selfish and I gave in. After that I fitted around his schedule. So stupid. I think I am kind of putting this down as a warning I keep seeing threads where woman are being walked over and I want to shake them I want them to see the consequences and they are not great.

wonderingagain Mon 29-Apr-13 22:04:38

Jesus this man is a total mindfuck.

Drawing you in with warped comments about being jealous that you can remember him loving you. He knows your weak spots and is working on them. Why do you even want this man to love you or to have loved you?

He is incapable of it. He's an emotional leech. Since when was it selfish to go to work? You really need him to leave now and give you some peace.

wonderingagain Mon 29-Apr-13 22:06:50

Get him to leave. Rent out a bedroom to cover the costs. JFDI was a good expression I learned on here.

Doha Mon 29-Apr-13 22:09:00

He warns to leave but can't
What a load of shite. He feels sorry for you--how condescending can this obnoxious man get,
Tell him you neither want nor deserve his pity--you will get by just fine without him hanging around your neck.
Time to grow a pair fuckitybollocks tell him to get out now. There is no such word as can't --the only word in his vocabulary is won't.
It doesn't suit him to go so he stays citing this pathetic excuse.
Come on girl.....

wonderingagain Mon 29-Apr-13 22:18:57

OP, can you organise flat for him? Give him a deadline and if he can't find an alternative you will have one set up for him?

fuckitybollocks Mon 29-Apr-13 22:25:15

He used to be so different (still a pratt). But he was compassionate and kind. He would by upset if a animal was being hurt, now he s cold and cruel about his marriage and family. He apsays they will be fine. I feel as though we have made a life and family together and now he is going to see if the grass is greener. I feel like the rubbish that is being discarded. I do not me he should have to stay with some,one who is unlovable, I really don't. H said he has not found a rental yet be use he did think it was going come to that. I do now I have made this. I can nt love with him, I don't want to see him. How did I give him the power to hurt me like this. And it does hurt. It is a physical pain. I don't want to be left doing this n my own. O don't want him to stay either. I don't see why he shud. He mocked this idea that promise and commitment meant anything. I think he thinks it is normal to change your ind and wave a family he knows the boys will be if apparently. He said that last time.

fuckitybollocks Mon 29-Apr-13 22:27:37

I could do that. I suspect he wants me too. It wil be my fault and Edwin the you see. H will still be a good an who tired to live his of but just couldn't. I did think about organising flat I have even been watching furniture for him on eBay.

wonderingagain Mon 29-Apr-13 22:48:56

Try to detach from him and think about yourself. Really, you are making it harder for yourself. You can do this, but not tonight. Try to get some rest.

fuckitybollocks Tue 30-Apr-13 06:23:43

Mornings are better. This morning I almost hate him and want him out if my life. Getting sorted for work which will be do much better for me than being here. Consolation prize this morning includes that I look dreadful so work will have no difficulty believing my sick certs. I hope that yesterday made him get started in leaving sooner rather than later. We are poisonous togther I think. Thanks for listening.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Tue 30-Apr-13 09:21:04

Good luck at work today.

Orchidlady Tue 30-Apr-13 09:29:53

Have a great day at work, keeping busy is good medicine.

AgathaF Tue 30-Apr-13 09:58:25

The more you write about him, the worse he sounds. The worse he sounds, not you. You have spent years keeping your family together, being the glue that binds them. He has spent years abusing the love and dovotion that you gave to him and your family. He is, quite simply, shit.

Please consider some counselling for yourself. I really think you have so much emotional stuff that needs to come out as you move forward (and you are moving forward), and a good counsellor would be able to help and support you whilst your mind works through all of this stuff.

fuckitybollocks Tue 30-Apr-13 12:40:42

He has just texted me at work hoping my day is ok with a smiley face.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Tue 30-Apr-13 12:55:44

Throwing you a scrap. Ignore.

fuckitybollocks Tue 30-Apr-13 12:59:50

It hurts. I feel like my brain is porridge. Really struggling here.

Orchidlady Tue 30-Apr-13 13:04:51

FB don't know what his game is tbh, I think he is being cruel as you know. If he does not love you then he should move out now, longer this goes on is pure torture. How are you going to move with him hanging around giving you mixed messages. He is an ass, actually getting angry for you

WhiteBirdBlueSky Tue 30-Apr-13 14:20:10

Wow. He thinks a smiley face can make up for the turmoil he's caused! angry

Orchidlady Tue 30-Apr-13 14:32:24

Notice all the angry angry, this how you should start to feel he is taking the piss. Smiley face cheeky bastard!

MadBusLady Tue 30-Apr-13 14:58:59

Just caught up with your thread fb.

This man is just a despicable cunt. angry

He feels sorry for me.

He keeps saying things like this, doesn't he? And all the "You're pathetic" stuff. He is TRYING to make you feel weak and to be pitied. You WOULDN'T feel weak and pathetic if he wasn't there doing his best to make sure you do.

And then you get a little smiley face - having put you down hard last night, he now throws you a crumb of "comfort". All this is designed to keep you dependent on him, thinking about him.

Please stop engaging with him. Stop having these heart-to-hearts with him. He uses them to manipulate you. Everything he says is designed to hurt, or hook you in in some way. He is doing it on purpose. The more I hear, the more convinced I am of that.

He is doing it because if he can get you thinking about his bullshit, his drama, his "feelings", then you won't have time and energy to pursue YOUR own course ahead. He wants you to stay confused, hurt and swinging backwards and forwards - it benefits him, and he doesn't give a shit what it does to you.

The only way to win this is to stop engaging.

AgathaF Tue 30-Apr-13 15:20:56

fb I hope your day is improving. If not, just tell yourself over and over, this is a blip, he is playing mind games, it will improve.

This is exactly why staying in this relationship is so very harmful for you, and exactly why you need to move on with your life away from his destructive influence.

I very much hope he is staying on the sofa again tonight, and for all the night until he leaves. Your treatment gives you the perfect excuse for the children. The bonus is that making him uncomfortable at home will give him much more incentive to find somewhere else to live.

fuckitybollocks Tue 30-Apr-13 16:22:16

Yes the treatment and bruised have been more than sufficient to explain the sofa!

I do think he genuinely does not want to hurt me although he knows that he does. I think, and he admitted at some point but I can't think when, that he does not want to make the decision. He wants me to. I have. Now he does not know what he wants. It was easy to say he didn't love me when w thought I would Always be there. Now I am being clearer that I have had enough he does not know. Buy I can not do more of this. I really can't. I want this new (6 months) job to go well and I am still on probation )10 months in this line of work).

I am tired. I felt sick coming in to work today and I don't know what is me post anaesthetic what is a physical reaction to him and what is just that I can't cope with the job. Anyway. Smoke break over. Back to the office.

I still don't feel angry. I wish I could find some anger. At least that comes with energy.

fuckitybollocks Tue 30-Apr-13 16:23:52

Thank god I still wnt him to go. I hope tht sees me through this time.

AgathaF Tue 30-Apr-13 17:21:10

Maybe the anger will come later for you, when he has left, and when you can really see how much he has messed you around over the years.

fuckitybollocks Tue 30-Apr-13 18:27:40

Perhaps. I think I am more disappointed in me at the moment. What a mess I have made.

MadBusLady Tue 30-Apr-13 19:16:39

He is responsible for the mess. If he'd just fuck off like a normal human being would under these circumstances, there wouldn't be a problem.

beachyhead Tue 30-Apr-13 19:36:11

Well done on making it back to work. Others are right, he is head fucking with you to steer you off course...

He's been surprised by you taking some control so is stirring it up more and more... You have a turbulent ride ahead, but keep your eyes on the horizon and I believe waters will calm and the sun will shine late June.

Stay strong, you can do it.

50shadesofgreyhair Tue 30-Apr-13 19:59:07

The more you write about this twunt, the more I think you need to kick him out. Don't rent him a flat or look at furniture for him - you don't need to do anything for him - looking after him - ever again. Just tell him, repeatedly and calmly that its over, and he has to go. He's spinning you a line and has the audacity to say that he feels sorry for you, what a patronising, self opinionated knob. You blame yourself, because you have zero self belief because he's made you like this - he has bled you dry like a nasty little leech. Give him until the weekend to get out (B&B, friends sofa, his family can have him). Tell him to jog on, and start living the life you deserve xx

fuckitybollocks Tue 30-Apr-13 22:55:13

I have asked him to go in the past. He just won't. I can't even at the moment get him to go away for a few days on a 'course'. We have not talked tonight except to discuss, briefly, what the builder said. I do not have the energy to fight as well as get back into work and catch up. Work has to e more important right now.

I feel like I am drowning. I have been in the black hole in the pat and do not want to ver go there again. I am trying to do it in small chunks. I have to work tomorrow then I have Thursday off, I then have to do Friday and then have three days off. Trouble is I don't know what s worse ATM work or home. He has told me he will be here all day on thursday. I think I should go into work using catching up as a reason. I will see.

I just don't want more talk with I'm, and I really really do not want him to see me cry. I never wanted his pity.

fuckitybollocks Wed 01-May-13 06:34:59

Up and ready for another day. I have to say I am sleeping well. Just exhausted I think. There will be little interaction before work so that us another day almost done. Just need to be efficient and up top of things for Work. I have an invite out for tonight. I will go if I can.

Printed off last stuff for pensions etc. will try and do some errands in Thursday need dentist visit and hopefully get into cab.

wonderingagain Wed 01-May-13 07:50:58

What would happen if you changed the locks and put some of his stuff in storage?

Walkacrossthesand Wed 01-May-13 08:06:26

Trouble is, wondering, the law doesn't allow you to lock a spouse out of the marital home like that....But 2 people can live separately in one house - thirty, no doubt the running of the household is your responsibility? Well, alongside no more chats about feelings (as posted above, he's not on your side is he, you don't want to share your sadness and vulnerability with someone who will use them against you), you can withdraw domestic services such as laundry, making cups of tea etc, without it being too obvious to DS - I appreciate you can't really stop cooking for him if you have family meals and you're trying to maintain appearances for DS, , but all the 'little extras' can stop. I think, after you've left and found yourself, you'll re-read this thread & be utterly astounded at how manipulative and twisted your H's thought processes are around you - there are so many inconsistencies, it's all designed to keep you in a fog, but ATM you can't really see it. Prepare for him to ramp up the 'nice/nasty' switches as you become more independent!

AgathaF Wed 01-May-13 08:13:19

fb - not sure if you current drowning feeling is just down to all the uncertainty or something more, but I wonder if a visit to your Dr might be a good idea? Maybe some anti-depressants to tide you over this particular time, or at least a discussion about it with your GP.

Hope you have a good day today. Do you have another CAB appointment?

AgathaF Wed 01-May-13 08:16:55

I completely agree about doing as little as possible for him, without it being obvious to the children. Also, please keep him out of your bed too. Make his life uncomfortable, he will leave all the sooner.

Walkacrossthesand Wed 01-May-13 08:21:50

Whoops - of course I meant fb, thirty is the thread title! Sorry ...

fuckitybollocks Wed 01-May-13 12:52:01

I would really rather avoid antidepressants although I am very aware of how helpful they were when I became v depressed a few years ago I think managing without is better for now.

Have just sent text because l sons bday at weekend and need to sort celebration. I want to be strong.

fuckitybollocks Wed 01-May-13 22:41:53

I really want to go downstairs and ask for a hug. The need comes form my stomach. It is bigger than me. I do not want to ask. I want to stay separate but this hurts it really hurts

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Wed 01-May-13 22:50:24

Give a hug to one of your sons instead?

Doha Wed 01-May-13 22:51:28

<<<virtual hug and hand held tightly>>>

fuckitybollocks Wed 01-May-13 22:57:00

They are in bed. As am I. I want him to love me. I can't do this. I really can't. I want him to come upstairs even though I know he does not want to be with me even more than I want him to stay in the sofa. I can't do this. I just can't.

fuckitybollocks Thu 02-May-13 05:28:34

Ok. Another epic fail on the emotions but stuck to bed and sofa respectively. Could have been worse.

Eastpoint Thu 02-May-13 05:36:10

Well done for staying strong. I've been reading your thread but up to now only lurking.

fuckitybollocks Thu 02-May-13 06:16:32

Thanks east I think describing myself as strong is pushing it a bit. Not as weak as I have been perhaps? Loads to do today but starting with a lazy bath before anyone wakes up. I wish I had not let him see I was sad yesterday but trying to get the idea that it does not matter because he does not matter in my mind.

DaemonPantalaemon Thu 02-May-13 06:48:48

This is unbelievable.

Do people really live like this?

Why on EARTH are you still with a man like this?

fuckitybollocks Thu 02-May-13 07:03:59

Because I have always failed to separate before.

DaemonPantalaemon Thu 02-May-13 07:25:40

I would have run screaming from this mess. I am really puzzled as to why you have not. I hope to God you are not one of those MN posters who put up with unbearable situations, then come to MN to get sympathy, and use the sympathy as a cushion and as a replacement for taking action about the situation.

You are a grown woman who seems kind and loving. You have a job you enjoy, children you love. You are not a helpless victim, in thrall to the manipulation of this man. You need to stop analysing your situation and talking it over with your husband and just get on with getting out.

Bon courage.

Walkacrossthesand Thu 02-May-13 08:47:31

You have a plan and a timescale though fb, don't you - you're lining things up ready to split up (not sure what the logistics are) as soon as your DSs GCSEs are over in a few weeks time. You know that no amount of wanting things to be different with H, will make it happen - you've finally had enough of 'putting up and shutting up' and he's not inclined to leave (why would he - the arrangement suits him very well) so you're having to do something you really don't want to do. It's hard, but necessary. Well done for not cracking last night. Keep trying not to let him know how sad you are - your feelings are no longer his business. Bon courage!

Walkacrossthesand Thu 02-May-13 08:54:03

Are you going to keep out of his way today, as you mentioned up thread? Wouldn't be surprised if he's deliberately planned to be home on a day he knows you will be, so he can step up the pressure to reel you back in... be wary! If he's Mr Nice Guy, remember he doesn't mean it...

AgathaF Thu 02-May-13 09:05:28

Good luck with today fb. Was it deliberate mind-fuckery from him that he is home today when you are?

Well, it's a lovely day here, hopefully where you are too. Why not go for a nice long walk, maybe stop off at a coffee shop or take some sandwiches and a flask with you - make a day of it. Avoid being around him somehow, anyway.

Keep on with your plans. Well done for not cracking last night.

fuckitybollocks Thu 02-May-13 09:10:24

He works from home so not deliberate.

I have arranged to meet a friend for a walk, another for a coffee and need to go shopping later. I do need to do some work so can not be out all day but I have bought home the noise reducing headphones I use in a open plan office at work to listen to music through.

Timescale, he knows the deadline. I am worried about him meeting it but will address that when we have this birthday weekend done. I have arranged to go to the cab next Thursday (have an appointment). I done all pension stuff. I have copied bank statements (we moved earlier this year and I want to see for myself how all the pennies were used). I am now looking for the key to my desk so I can keep things locked in there over next few weeks. The builders are here and working on a bedroom at the Monet and we have agreed to change bathrooms ASAP.

It is slow and hard but moving in little bits to ensure that as soon as June 17 comes we will need as little interaction as possible.

AgathaF Thu 02-May-13 10:47:40

You're going in the right direction. Have a good day with your friends.

50shadesofgreyhair Thu 02-May-13 19:16:21

just to check in quickly - echo what Agatha says - you're doing really well xx

fuckitybollocks Thu 02-May-13 20:23:50

We are off... tonight we have had 'I am so down and empty', 'I cant talk', 'I don't know what I want' and when you are upset I want to leave even more.

This pattern has reoccurred so many times even I can spot it now sad

MadBusLady Thu 02-May-13 20:39:38

It's good that you can spot the pattern. But really, stop talking to him! You don't need to be part of these conversations. You don't need to explain yourself, just walk out of the room, go and read or cook dinner. If he tries to follow and force you to talk say "I'm a bit busy at the moment." Non-committal brush-offs.

Please, you'll feel so much better if you take a bit of control.

Doha Thu 02-May-13 20:44:53

What a mind fuck he is !!
He probably doesn't like the fact that you are coping and getting organised, he is losing control and the upper hand.
Just remind him he is getting what he said he wanted ie leaving and not to worry about you being upset cause you are now coping just fine.

Give him a wide berth and carry on being fabulous. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point he changes his mind tho!!!!

fuckitybollocks Thu 02-May-13 22:23:21

My answer was that if he had a problem he had to find a solution. I am unable to be as cruel as he is and have no intention if trying. I aimed at being somewhat less engaged than I am with personal problems at work. I don't want to be upset for him. I can't be upset that he has a wife he dies not love! That would be a step to far even for me who would like him to be happy.

Gosh that still sounds muddled.

MadBusLady Thu 02-May-13 22:55:13

That doesn't sound muddled at all, that sounds like you responded perfectly. smile He's going to have to get used to dealing with his own problems. He's made his bed.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Fri 03-May-13 00:53:17

Very tiring this back and forth, no wonder you feel ground down.Why does he think you can tolerate and sort this when he keeps moving the goalposts and moaning how tough life is for him. "Fix it yourself then H." It'll dawn on him eventually you have had enough.

Glad you got some time apart and have been organising things and adopting a civil but cool approach.

AgathaF Fri 03-May-13 02:34:56

He is so utterly self-indulgent, it's all about him. Keep trying to not engage. Keep on with your plan. These weeks are the worst part, it will start to improve soon.

fuckitybollocks Fri 03-May-13 06:46:21

Another one done. I can't decide whether to keep counts of the days.? I think both younger boys know. Middle son said something that made me worry and youngest son v quiet.

MadAboutHotChoc Fri 03-May-13 07:37:21

You really need to detach properly - that way you won't fall for his manipulations. He is all me, me, me isn't he? Nothing about you at all and no consideration for the DC. What a self absorbed and selfish twat and the sooner he leaves, the better.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Fri 03-May-13 13:22:44

Not to pile on gloom but you can't know what he 'lets slip' or hints at to DCs when you're out of earshot.
It may be wise to plan what to say if any of them ask for reassurance.

fuckitybollocks Fri 03-May-13 14:10:40

I am fairly sure they will not talk to him about this kind if stuff but you are right. It has only been mentioned as something we will so together there is not a plan as such.

I will pick a time to talk it through over the weekend.

50shadesofgreyhair Fri 03-May-13 20:13:15

Yes, detaching is definitely the way forward. Don't engage with him unless its necessary, and stop doing stuff for him in the house. When I chucked ex out, he had to take two weeks worth of dirty washing with him - because in the final weeks, I made a point of not cooking for him, doing his laundry..it's hard, but you really need to put all your energy on you and the kids. He will just drain you, and you need to focus on yourself. Stress is very exhausting, and you need to conserve your energy wisely. Don't make home life comfortable for him. I used to go out of the room when ex walked in - I just avoided him as much as possible. The kids will notice, and they will know more than you think, but if they see you coping, they will cope. And if you keep going as you are - and slowly start to detach and put yourself first - then you will get through this. And your kids will respect you and realise how strong and inspiring you are. You're doing well. x

fuckitybollocks Fri 03-May-13 20:58:42

I do not do his washing, and on the whole have not done it for a long time! Oh and he does not have a clean cricket kit for tomorrow...

Long walk with friend this eve, possibly oldest bestest etc (picture a puke face). He is very very realistic so is a very good person to talk things through with. Unfortunately he thought it was unlikely my husband would have organised, or started organising somewhere to go. I think he is right, if husband does not know what to do he will do nothing. A chastening conversation. I do not want to sort out his accommodation. If I am honest I do not want to even talk about it or ask him what he has done.

I think I will leave tackling this next week. I am sure weekends will be hard, and we have the birthday. In terms of priorities talking to the boys and what we will say needs to be near the top.

fuckitybollocks Sat 04-May-13 18:31:43

A very peaceful day.

Just thought I would post when not feeling in the edge for a change smile.

MadAboutHotChoc Sat 04-May-13 18:33:14

smile that's good to hear

Jux Sun 05-May-13 11:23:37

Fuckitybollocks, you have come a long way since you started this thread, well done. You have done a lot, despite your health issues, and despite your h's constant blocking and manipulations.

I agree with your friend. H is not going to do anything until he is forced to do so. I think you will have to start divorce proceedings before he believes you mean anything. He doesn't take you seriously, so you will have to show him that you really do mean business this time.

I think your boys know. They have probably known for some time sad but they are old enough, and have had some time to steel themselves a bit. They will probably feel relief mostly that the separation of their parents has actually happened - when it does - so that they can think clearly about other things. They also have each other; it's a very strong support network, the one amongst siblings (unless they hate each other, and I don't get that impression from you).

I think that if h were to go now, the rest of you would all feel a lot better immediately.

I hope the w/e goes well, and happy birthday to your son. thanks to you. You can and will get this done. Trust yourself and your boys.

fuckitybollocks Sun 05-May-13 11:54:31

Thank you. I needed that. Feeling sad (not teary all is calm) at the moment. I feel very lonely. Still, big family meal for birthday later; that will buck me up.

AgathaF Mon 06-May-13 07:08:01

I agree with Jux that he needs a strong, clear signal of your intention to follow through with all of this. The only signal left really is to start divorce proceedings. I know you want to wait until after GCSEs to make it official, and hopefully you will still be able to do that, although if your children have got wind of it, then the kindest thing might be to be open with them anyway.

Having said that, I would say don't worry about him not having accommodation prepared. When the date comes, he can go to his mums and make sort accommodation from there. He will need to take his belongings with him, obviously, so that he is clear that it is not just for a couple of weeks until you soften, and you will need to be strict about only contacting him or taking his calls etc if it is to discuss chidlren. Make sure he knows that is what you expect if he has not sorted anything out before.

I'm glad you have friends to talk this through with who are (hopefully) trustworthy. I hope you enjoyed your family meal too.

fuckitybollocks Mon 06-May-13 16:06:39

Ok just as predicted he is now being really nice. And, no, I do not go out of my way to give him opportunities but sharing a house with building work taking place and three boys all makes interaction pretty inevitable.

I am trying to keep my distance, it is only five weeks and I ought to be able to do that civilly. I really have the impression he does not want to leave, but 'know' he does not want to be with me. Trying really hard not to lose sight of how horrible it is to live with someone who does not love me.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 06-May-13 16:39:02

He is predictable and thinks a bit of soft soap makes up for coasting along like a surly housemate or critical passenger who knows he can be as rude and churlish as he likes then ups his game now and then enough so as not to get cast out.

MadAboutHotChoc Mon 06-May-13 16:59:08

How typically selfish and manipulative - he really wants to have his cake and eat it doesn't he?

AgathaF Mon 06-May-13 17:48:10

He will only be nice until he gets his own way. I'm sure you can see through him now, so won't let him get his way and stay.

50shadesofgreyhair Mon 06-May-13 18:32:47

You have to be really strong and stick to your guns. You've called his bluff - of course he's being nice. He wants to be able to go when it suits him, and probably leave the door open, in case the grass isn't greener, and return if it suits him. You have to take complete control here. If you are determined to stick it out five weeks, then remain totally detached - and detach some more - and file for divorce. You can do this - you don't need him to leave to do this. Don't worry about where he goes, like other wise posters say, he can go to family, friends, b&b...just focus on your goal. He will try extra hard now to get you back in your little box so he can control you. Tough. I couldn't wait until my ex wanted to go, and chucked him out. Told him he had an hour, he had nowhere to go, but went and slept on friends sofa. I was so adamant nothing would deter me - I told him he had an hour, and if he wasn't gone, I would throw all his clothes onto the front drive. He knew I was determined, and he went. It's hard. But for me, the thought of living in limbo was far, far worse. You can do this. Don't let him weaken you. It's over. You are in control now. Not him.
Good luck. You've come so far, am proud of you! xx

fuckitybollocks Mon 06-May-13 20:46:17

I think it is the pretence that causes me confusion - I feel like I am pretending to be living the life I want(ed?????).

fuckitybollocks Mon 06-May-13 22:17:16

That is not quite right. My head is not confused. I have wanted things to become good for so long, and the requirement for that was me making him happy, ornatnleast avoiding him being unhappy it is hard to shake it. Oh I don't know. Sleep now I think.

fuckitybollocks Tue 07-May-13 07:34:28

I think I have worked it out. I am scared of him going, not because of paying bills or reaching high things off the shelves. Because Ihe has literally been half ipd me for so long. But, I am more scared if him staying now. Fear may not be the best reason for sticking to my guns but it will do for now.

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 07-May-13 07:37:54

You are not responsible for other people's happiness - only your own.

If he is unhappy, only he can address his own issues and problems and it seems he is choosing to solve these by cheating on you.

fuckitybollocks Tue 07-May-13 10:52:03

This morning we had the have a nice day, I will so the kitchen and n attempt at a kiss good bye )one son around). He must really think I am a total walkover. Who can blame him? Not not not this time tho.

Jux Tue 07-May-13 12:08:19

Fear is fine in these circumstances, as long as you aren't scared of him. No Walkover now, are you?!

Do have a nice day!

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Tue 07-May-13 12:11:24

You are organised, competent, proactive. Good luck to younger DS with his revision.

fuckitybollocks Wed 08-May-13 22:34:01

I don't feel very competent, or organised right now. I feel railroaded. Will be back tomorrow being strong again but right now I feel pathetic.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Wed 08-May-13 22:49:58

Sometimes we have to fake it 'til we make it. Read a little, rest. Get some sleep, gather strength.

Jux Wed 08-May-13 22:51:23

One thing you are NOT is pathetic! Don't believe it for one instant; that really is not an adjective anyone who has contact with - be it in rl or virtual - would apply to you. Not unless they have ishoos and are your h of course. But you don't need to pay any attention to what he thinks of you because he's a nasty piece of work and not worth taking seriously.

fuckitybollocks Thu 09-May-13 08:43:36

Premenstrual I think. Menopausal so hard to tell. Very low. All of us sat watching apprentice last night. It is sad to think that we are nit a family. He is so stupid. But I thnk he knows that. Leaving has not been mentioned for a couple of days. I have big work thing next week so am doing very long days which are likely to continue over the weekend. Can't face talking to him at all right now. He knows deadline but I am pretty sure he is not doing anything. I don't want to live like this.

AgathaF Thu 09-May-13 09:38:32

fb it will soon improve. The days are going past and the date will come. He probably won't have sorted anything out properly, but he can still move to family and do it from there.

fuckitybollocks Thu 09-May-13 12:45:19

You are right. I just in my mind see it as an line after which their will be nothing of his here and we will be truly separate. Just want it done and quick I guess. I do know it is unlikely to be that simple but also know that if was up to me to sort it would be that simple!

AgathaF Thu 09-May-13 13:34:32

When the date comes (and he has done nothing towards it), would it be possible for you to have a couple of helpful people lined up ready to come and 'help' him to pack quickly and get his stuff to his mother's house? Perhaps a brother, friend, other relative? Just so that it's not you and him having a stand-off about where and when he goes, when actually, the when has been planned for some time?

fuckitybollocks Thu 09-May-13 16:12:59

I will think about that. The priority has to be the boys seeing this in as positive a light as possible. I need to be clear, with myself, about why I can manage.

fuckitybollocks Sat 11-May-13 23:19:27

So sad, I still think that is love here. What a waste. He is now saying he does not know what he wants, i have said I know what i want: not to live with someone who does not love me,

getting dangerous now feeling very scared

AgathaF Sun 12-May-13 06:58:42

Mind games from him again then? He has demonstrated over and over and over what he wants. Actions speak louder than words. Even now, if the thought of splitting up had genuinely brought him to his senses, he would be doing everything he possibly could to prove to you that he can be the partner that you want and deserve. He's not doing that though, is he?

I agree that ideally your boys should see it in as positive a light as possible. However, that requires cooperation from him to get this done with the minimum of fuss and messing around. The alternative is to get it done efficiently and speedily, so he doesn't mess with their young heads like he is doing with yours.

wonderingagain Sun 12-May-13 07:40:57

It's not a waste. That was then, this is now. You have been strong enough to keep the relationship together all these years and you are both part of each other. This is what is making it hard. Having a similarly long relationship that is less than perfect myself, I understand that over time this happens.

So you will have to sever that limb that attaches you and this is probably what's concerning him now - the pain of losing the part of you that is his.

Tell him he'll be fine, tell him he will heal - find a new partner, find a new home, start a new life.

fuckitybollocks Sun 12-May-13 09:47:05

U an really struggling and so cross with myself. Have a huge work thing next week and need to have my wits about me today to prepare and this week. So why now, after a relatively peaceful settled bit am I bloody tearful again? I want to not live him. I really do. He is saying he cannot love me the way I need which neatly makes it my fault for being needy. He says he is not happy in our life so he is going for the ditch it and see if that helps option. I wish he had the energy to put into our life that he does for sport. This is such a waste.

I so want things to be different.

wonderingagain Sun 12-May-13 09:55:01

It's not a waste. It's the end of your marriage. It was OK before, now it isn't. Let it go.

MadBusLady Sun 12-May-13 16:23:28

You'll go through ups and downs, fb - that is totally to be expected. This is probably (I hope anyway) one of the most stressful periods of your life. This unfaithful, emotionally checked-out shadow of your former husband is dangling around playing headgames with you and engaging you in fraught emotional conversations in which he continuously intimates that you're just not good enough for his lurve, while you single-handedly try to get over him and mourn your marriage, keep quiet in front of the boys, organize practicalities of the split AND carry on with all the usual work/socialising/domestic stuff as well. While also worrying, legitimately, that he may not even have the grace to bloody go when it comes to it.

You'll probably look back on this couple of months and wonder why you weren't in tears the whole time.

And please (I am a broken record here), stop talking to him.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Sun 12-May-13 16:33:24

He will twist this so eventually he'll take credit for splitting up, wait and see. "I kept telling fuckity I was so unhappy..... she finally saw sense.... I really couldn't wait to go.... only stayed to make sure DS2 was okay during his exams.... of course she was devastated and I had to make all the big decisions..." blah blah.

When this pantomime is over you will feel like the world is lifted off your shoulders.

fuckitybollocks Sun 12-May-13 21:29:11

Pantomime is the right word but why do I feel like the baddie?

How do I stop this hurting. Spats tonight over the clearing up from the boys - he said at least he would no have to deal with that any more. How come he gets to walk out. How come I get the shit while he gets a shag pad with wall to wall football. How can he do this?

Why wont he even try - too late now but why were we not worth it I dont understand

fuckitybollocks Mon 13-May-13 07:39:24

Bad bad night. Asked him what I could do to make our life ok ! Fair to say I am now into work with puffy eyes. I dislike myself more than I dislike him and that is saying something. Shit.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 13-May-13 08:55:08

What you said earlier about casting yourself as the viillain, I don't pretend to know why. 5 years' ago your H crossed a line and yet you're the one trying to repair the damage. I think the two of you are stuck playing the panto horse. You're at the front going nowhere because you're still attached to the horse's ass at the back.

At the risk of flogging the analogy to death he doesn't need to speak because you're still attempting to do the talking and explaining, he doesn't have to be the one looking where you're going because you are so fearful of going ahead you'd rather stay still or go backwards.

MadBusLady Mon 13-May-13 09:17:14

Stop talking to him.

Stop talking to him.

Stop talking to him.

!!!

AgathaF Mon 13-May-13 09:34:09

fb - please consider some counselling. Your self-esteem is on the floor (due to him), which is why you have a distorted view of your role in this whole thing. You are not the baddie. Far from it. You have given him the biggest chance, kept hope in your marriage going for a long, long time, held it together for too long. How can you possibly be the baddie?

fuckitybollocks Mon 13-May-13 15:00:52

I see your logic but just feel such a second rate person. I will try and avoid talking or worse still listening. I don't think either if us quite believe it can't be fixed. But it can't. My head knows that. It will be better when he has left. This bit is horrible. In front of children he still calls me darling and talks about future. I just fudge.

Jux Mon 13-May-13 15:12:16

I think he knows very well it can't be fixed but he can play that he wants it fixed as long as it keeps the status quo, and you running about puffy eyed and talking to him and hoping. It is a very cruel game he is playing with you.

Please stop talking to him. Talk to a counsellor instead. Much more fruitful!

AgathaF Mon 13-May-13 15:17:41

He really needs to stop talking like that in front of the children. It's not fair on them or you. However, apart from asking him not to, there's not much you can do about it so try not to give it too much of your attention. Save that for hugs for your children.

You're not second rate. You have struggled and struggled for so long now - you deserve a bloody medal. Be proud of yourself for everything you have given to your marriage. Unfortunately, he didn't offer the same to it, but that is his fault, not yours.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 13-May-13 16:07:01

I realise you are trying to keep things as normal as possible for DS2. If H uses DCs as an audience don't engage with him. Practise being busy, absorbed in something else. Try not to engage. He can twist the knife now but his power will wane You won't have to protect the boys forever. Don't look too far ahead. Deal with today now.

fuckitybollocks Mon 13-May-13 16:16:06

One day at a time is my mantra right now. In fact while at home an hour at a time suffices. Counselling I will think about but after he has gone. In the meantime I will just keep in keeping on and do some work. Work is the best therapy right now. That and I am overdue a walk!

fuckitybollocks Tue 14-May-13 06:22:24

Total ignoring last night,. I was very late home from work anyway. Give weeks today is last exam.

fuckitybollocks Wed 15-May-13 23:44:02

Melt down today. Is ok ish as tho at work I do not think anyone noticed me having a bit of space. Husband challenged me over money spent and I just cracked. Perhaps I do need to make everything more formal. Have looked at co operative site this evening. Has anyone use their self divorce service?

AgathaF Thu 16-May-13 07:15:43

Today's a new day, don't worry about yesterday's melt down. I agree you need to make this more formal - he needs to see proper boundaries, and if he is getting picky over money, then I think you need to ensure that you are protected financially. This is new ground for you both and you can't know how he is going to be regarding money as this process goes on.

Hope today is better for you.

fuckitybollocks Thu 16-May-13 08:29:19

You are right, the incident about money that caused upset yesterday was entirely unexpected. It shouldn't be. I am angry that he gets to walk out if the team that was our partbernisgip with money fr a new life and no (few) responsibilities. Now I will be doing everything for the children and be broke to boot. Of course I do not think anyone should stay with someone if they are not happy but this is so selfish. I feel like we made a life together with good bits and bad bits but with a team approach, now he is ditching it rather than improve it.

I calmly reminded him that the time he has to find somewhere to live is ticking away. I hope he acts upon it.

AgathaF Thu 16-May-13 09:04:50

I hope he acts upon it too fb, but remember that if he doesn't, it's his own problem and not yours. He has had plenty of time to prepare. He can move to his mother's temporarily and find somewhere from there. His lack of planning should not derail your plans.

Think of the money incident as a warning to get your ducks in order and protect yourself legally as far as possible.

Less than five weeks of this crap, then you can start to rebuild your life for the better.

Jux Thu 16-May-13 14:12:24

Have you consulted a solicitor yet about how to split financials etc, and also if there a way of enforcing his move out if he decides to be difficult about it?

You're absolutely right, it's not fair that he can just go off with no qualms and few responsibilities; but you are yhe better person as you are not even thinking of doing that. You are shouldering your responsibilities.

How are the exams going?

fuckitybollocks Thu 16-May-13 22:28:46

Exams. Well under no circumstances were they going to be easy. We shall see.

Have been to the cab. Think may use the co op. they do fixed price packaged that look straightforward. I don't have the money to kick it off at the moment. Did you know that it costs the petitioner more? I didn't.

AgathaF Fri 17-May-13 07:45:28

fb - would it be any cheaper to go for a legal separation for the time being, until the money situation improves (or he can be persuaded to petition, if that is what you would prefer)? Anything to get something official that he recognises and will act on.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Fri 17-May-13 09:19:00

Fuckity maybe those helpful MNers on Legal Matters in the Other Stuff category could help think over Agatha's suggestion.

How are you today, any plans for the weekend? Maybe some surreptitious division of books and music, under guise of a clearout for charity or local church bazaar or suchlike.

fuckitybollocks Fri 17-May-13 12:32:02

The music and books are all mine all mine I repeat!!!!

I will look at legal sep. I think I do need to do something. He talks as though he will be here forever. Some of that may be because of kids. I don't know. I have has the week from hell at work, one more hurdle this afternoon. Next week will be easier and I have booked half term off to paint walls (and try and get some revision done with son).

Five weeks and it should all be over. I have said I want everything if his out. I do not want more lingering. I don't want him to go either. That is the danger point I know. I can't live like this though I really can't. I won't.

AgathaF Fri 17-May-13 14:18:33

fb - you sound much more sure of yourself recently. That's a really good thing. You can see the end is getting nearer and you know things will improve for you, maybe slowly, but still improve.

Painting the walls sounds good.

fuckitybollocks Fri 17-May-13 14:21:56

It is good. He is spending money sitting out some house stuff that I will not be able to afford. New bathroom three rooms replastered. New furniture for the youngest.

fuckitybollocks Fri 17-May-13 14:22:13

It is good. He is spending money sitting out some house stuff that I will not be able to afford. New bathroom three rooms replastered. New furniture for the youngest.

fuckitybollocks Fri 17-May-13 21:54:40

I have asked him to discuss a breakdown of assets and debts on Sunday. He says he will prepare a list. I have been walking with my friend who has stated that I should jot allow mortgage to be made interest only. I feel a tiny tiny bit in control. He is cold and hard tonight and that helps.

MadBusLady Fri 17-May-13 21:59:34

smile You're doing great and sounding stronger. Am loving the determination re books and CDs!

fuckitybollocks Sat 18-May-13 09:55:08

Ok. The divorce is nothing. The marriage is broken anyway. But for various reasons the need to sort out finances is becoming more pressing. There is one thing that will require a confrontation of sorts as we have utterly different perspectives on it. I do not need to address this now but will need to, probably before the four weeks we have left now. It should really be sorted together with everything else finance wise. I am fairly certain i will need some legal advice. I am thinking out loud here really. I think I need a solicitor appointment but in order to maximise the value I need more financial information. I have taken the whole of half term off and plan to find an empty house slot to discuss. There are some anomalies in our finances that need addressing.

Envy thing is so muddled though. I had too much wine and we slept together last night. I am sure you can imagine that I don't feel great about that. But I also feel quite peaceful. He did not say he loves me. This morning he is again talking as though he will live in the house forever (talking decorating). I told him I find that hard and he went in to give me a hug.

Walkd with my Friedan last night. He is invariably uncritical of my husband but talking through money stuff with him he has very set ideas about what is best for me and should be non negotiable. I am hoping he will help me, perhaps come to the solicitors, to get a proposal together to show my husband. That sounds odd, I don't know what else to call him here where I can't use his name.

The week from hell at work is over and that took everything spare brain cell over the last two weeks. Hopefully I will get more of a grip in things next week.

AgathaF Sat 18-May-13 10:36:14

Good idea to take your friend to the solicitors for support. Also a good idea to be very clear on your financial stuff and what you want from them before you go to maximise your free half hour (if that is what you have). I think you can have free half hours with different sols, to find one you like, so if you still have unanswered questions after seeing one, you can make an appointment with another.

I hope he doesn't see last night as a climb down from you, although from what you say about his attitude this morning it sounds like he does. The curse of wine, eh? smile It's worth pointing out that he could and should have refused to sleep with you last night. He knows the score, even if he is pretending not to. It was wrong of him to go along with it, especially since he was aware you had been drinking.

Hope the coming week is easier for you.

fuckitybollocks Sat 18-May-13 11:52:10

It will be. Thanks for not slating me. X

AgathaF Sat 18-May-13 18:48:28

Absolutely no reason to slate you. I'm sure in your shoes I would be a total mess, not holding it together as well as you are doing.

Keep on keeping on, as they say grin.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Sun 19-May-13 13:51:18

He can draw whatever conclusion he likes. You can scratch an itch. People say detach and ignore because it can muddy the waters emotionally. It's your life OP.

fuckitybollocks Mon 20-May-13 06:29:21

We had two mins relative privacy yesterday. He is depressed. He says he has no enjoyment in life. He says he will stay. I whispered no it is not fine before child came in. Today in a bit if a reversal I need to try and find time to talk. I know he is depressed and would be delighted if he gets some help but that does not mean I am back on the treadmill again.

Anyway a room painted and off to work.

AgathaF Mon 20-May-13 07:25:28

He is depressed, probably of his own making. No enjoyment in life? Well, he didn't give a monkeys that you weren't having a ball either, did he? Or that the responsibility of that lay with him. Now he's doing the 'poor little me' act. Beggars belief how self-absorbed he is.

He really shoudn't get to call the shots now, over whether he stays or goes. His life won't improve if he stays, anymore than yours would. Him going gives you both the opportunity to move on and forge new lives for the both of you.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 20-May-13 08:51:01

He can marshal support it doesn't all have to come from you! One way street with him and expecting a comforting gesture or consideration. Don't be deterred.

fuckitybollocks Mon 20-May-13 13:55:29

He does not really have anyone else to talk to. He is pretty estranged from his family and has no close friends. sad.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 20-May-13 14:30:29

Well, has he ever asked himself why? None of that is your fault.

MadBusLady Mon 20-May-13 16:27:07

Today in a bit if a reversal I need to try and find time to talk.

Have I understood this correctly, that you're going to try to find time to talk to him about his depression?

I'm out at this point, I think. Best of luck with it, OP.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 20-May-13 16:53:41

On 16th April OP you said here,
I am scared that I will continue to find reason to hope and hang on

You are not responsible for his unhappiness or apathy.

Have you decided it is easier to stick with the devil you know?

fuckitybollocks Mon 20-May-13 22:39:44

I can't switch of caring about him. I do worry. I will not change tack but neither can I ignore someone, especially somone I love, who is sad. I would like him to be happy. I know it is not down to me but I would help if I could.

Is this so wrong? I don't understand

Doha Mon 20-May-13 23:00:38

He doesn't give a shit about you and hasn't loved you for years !!

Now he is depressed hahahaha good one. Just because you have grown a backbone and are not pleading for him to stay he has become depressed.

Have some self respect fuckitybollocks--don't just settle for someone who really doesn't love you but just hasn't the balls to leave.

Time for you to follow through with your plans-if you don't l will give it a year at the most before you post about him on MN again

raisah Tue 21-May-13 04:31:15

Why drag out this painful death of a relationship? Far kinder to end it permanantly now for everyone. The atmosphere in your home must be awful & that is not a healthy environment for your child to study in.

I suspect your back pain is stress related as most illnesses/pains can be triggered by stress. Seeing a chiropractor might be useful for your back. See a councellor to help you focus & deal with your unhappiness.