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Controlling behaviour - Seeking advice as i have no where to turn

(107 Posts)
tweedlezee Mon 15-Apr-13 11:03:33

OK, so here I am. confused and alone with no where to turn or so it feels. Wondered if the good ship mums net could sail me away to a happier place. I am going to be brutally honest and I really hope someone else out there is too.
So DP and I have 2 kids. We were together about a year before I got pregnant. when I got pregnant he couldn't have been happier.
not long after, he said a couple of odd things which stick in my mind. he sort of accused me of maybe being pregnant by someone else. this stayed with me all through my pregnancy and it was a huge relief when my son came out looking exactly like his dad. so I moved out of my gorgeous flat and into his stinking flat to save money. I had SPD through my pregnancy and so really couldn't move/walk/turn over in bed. I ate a lot and became quite depressed. he used to get really frustrated with me. telling me I should do more but when I offered things up to do, he never wanted to do them with me. He used to want me to go out clubbing but didn't understand why I felt it wan't appropriate., I felt I could do nothing right and I could not please him. despite working 40 hours a week, saving like mad and cooking. cleaning for him.
We moved into a new house and my son was born. I developed post-natal depression as I had limited support from family (who live v.far away) and my DP was building his business. I became pregnant again, just as I felt I was getting myself back. my SPD became too much by the time I was 6 months pregnant. I couldn't stand and me and DS spent a lot of time at home watching telly. I could just about stand up long enough to make tea for DS and DP. DP used to get frustrated with me as I cried a lot due to being immobile/working 25 hours a week and looking after a 1 yr old.
DP can be quite stand off-ish with my friends. has been known to tell me that if I keep 'speaking my mind' then my friends will 'not like me anymore'. My friends are amazing. He has also been known to be rude about my parents and I find myself joining and feeling bad about them coming over because he seems uncomfortable with them around.
I am confused.
He feels controlling but he tells me I am controlling. I have wanted to return to work but he has said that his job is more important. he wont agree to giving me some money everyweek saying I should just be able to ask for it. HE is always late and makes me late even though I want to be on time. he seems to know it will upset me and tells me I am being stupid. he tells me I am mad whenever w e fight and ignores my feelings. he also says he worries about the kids with me but leaves them at home with me everyday and wont sacrifice the growth of his business. I am confused. I am alone. I don't want to talk to my friend too much as I don't want them to think ill of him or to feel to protective of me as its is awkward for them. Please help.

AnyFucker Mon 15-Apr-13 11:07:16

Womens aid

tweedlezee Mon 15-Apr-13 11:08:15

ok, thanks

thepatioislumpy Mon 15-Apr-13 11:08:46

Hello lovely. Please take a look at this thread. I'm sure you'll find a lot of recognisable stuff in the links in the OP, and you will find more than enough support from the ladies there who will understand totally.

It is not you, it is him. If you are frightened that people will think badly of him it is because there is reason to think of him badly.

AnyFucker Mon 15-Apr-13 11:11:54

I second the ea support thread and the links provided there

You are being emotionally and financially abused

You need rl help to plan your exit

This is no way to live, and no example to give to growing children

tweedlezee Mon 15-Apr-13 11:13:02

thank you

thepatioislumpy Mon 15-Apr-13 11:24:43

And I second AF's Womens Aid suggestion. Not only is this no way to live, you don't have to.

Breaking free was both the hardest and easiest thing I have ever done. Good luck.

tweedlezee Mon 15-Apr-13 11:24:58

ANyFucker (love the name, could really do with feeling like that name atm) you are right in loads of ways. and I cant find a way out because all my exits have been purposefully sealed off. it will all be ok, I know that. I need to start talking to people who love me. I had never heard of emotional abuse before but now, I see it

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 15-Apr-13 11:27:16

Second the idea to talk to Womens Aid. He sounds like a terrible bully and the things he is doing such as trying to isolate you from friends and family, depriving you of money, not to mention the criticisms and insults are all examples of abusive behaviour. At the same time, please also talk to your friends & family honestly and ask for their help. I'm sure they already think badly of him & will be very relieved when you ask. If you keep quiet, the only person you are protecting is him.

Very best of luck

tweedlezee Mon 15-Apr-13 11:32:37

Thank you. I just get so confused because when he twists things and tells me I twist them but I have always been reasonable and spoken my mind and I have good friends. I say this to him and he tells me that they don't have to live with me like this. but I feel like I am only like this because I am with him.

thepatioislumpy Mon 15-Apr-13 11:35:19

Oh no - they're not sealed off. There will be a way out and WA are experts in finding them. You will come to see how 'smoke and mirrors' this all is, and how weak is prison is once you start to break free. At the time it feels like the strongest structure in the world, but it will come tumbling down like a pack of cards if you can find the right one to start with.

Cog is right too - when I started telling people, the number of friends and family who had 'always suspected something' or who had 'never liked him' was enormous. My mum cried. With relief smile

thepatioislumpy Mon 15-Apr-13 11:35:52

how weak his prison

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 15-Apr-13 11:40:33

Emotional bullies always twist things to make it look like you're the one with the psychologicial problem and not them.... it's unbelieveably common, don't worry. The intention is to chip, chip, chip away at your confidence and get you to start doubting yourself so that they can keep you on the back foot and nicely subdued. They isolate you from friends and family either physically (by relocating) or socially (by being anti-social and creating conflict) so that - as you've spotted - your exits get sealed off.

Do seek advice from WA but do get your family and friends onside for support. If you want use MN as a sounding board as well we can support you that you're not imagining this stuff, you're not nuts and you're not being unreasonable. When up against a controlling bully it's important that you believe in yourself.

AnyFucker Mon 15-Apr-13 11:43:56

Love, start talking to people

He isn't fooling you, so he isn't fooling others. And remember they are looking with an outsider's viewpoint so less susceptible to the clever isolating and gaslighting he has been able to keep you reeled in with (so far)

Women's Aid know men like this, inside out

There is nothing all-powerful, nothing unique, nothing new under the sun about this guy's tactics. The experts have seen it all before.

As you start to seek help do not tell him any of this in an attempt to make him "see sense". He will close off those avenues too if he knows about them.

In fact, from today you need to stop trying to "understand" his actions. You never will, and he will never stop. Accept that, and it will be easier to move forward in small, safe steps.

Do 2 things today. Make a call to Womens Aid, the website with numbers to call/who to email is here and go talk to the lovely ladies on the EA thread linked above about your situation. They know where you are coming from.

AnyFucker Mon 15-Apr-13 11:46:21
musickeepsmesane Mon 15-Apr-13 11:50:01

Same as AF says. Good luck, remember this is for you and your family. We are all here to help you stay strong.

CouthySaysEatChoccyEggs Mon 15-Apr-13 11:50:47

My Ex is exactly the same. I KNOW it's abusive, that's why we split up.

Problem is, I'm disabled, and I fall just short of care being provided by Adult Social Care because my disabilities are variable rather than constant.

So I have no choice but to rely on him, as I have no family support (toxic, very very toxic), and I NEED the care.

Soooo, I know he's abusive but I have absolutely NO choice but to put up with it because if my disabilities. I HATE him, and I HATE my life tbh.

tweedlezee Mon 15-Apr-13 11:51:29

I have emailed my dad. big mega massive deal. I just love where I live/my friends. I am intelligent and capable and somehow, though I know this, he makes me feel the opposite. I started talking to people about this about 3 weeks ago, I thought we could fix it, I felt strong. but then he is passive aggressive, tells me i'm stupid, says I ruin everything just because I got mad at him. I feel like I can't stand on my head enough different ways to please him and that I shouldn't even be having to do that at all!!!

CouthySaysEatChoccyEggs Mon 15-Apr-13 11:52:45

I think tonight, I'm going to start my own thread.

CouthySaysEatChoccyEggs Mon 15-Apr-13 11:53:07

Sorry for the hijack, OP.

AnyFucker Mon 15-Apr-13 12:05:43

tweedle, stop trying to please him

whatever you manage to do, he will shift the goalposts so that all your emotional energy is taken up with keeping yourself above water and the emphasis remains on him and how to manage him

he knows this

he knows that if you are always on the back foot, you will never take a step forward

he is the needy one, he is the inadequate one, people who are secure in themselves do not treat others like this

that is not to say you keep looking for reasons why he does what he does, or feel sorry for him because he "can't help it"

he can help it, he chooses to use emotional abuse to keep himself top dog in his own eyes

it doesn't matter why just that is isn't acceptable to you

keep on detaching form the headfuckery...take a step back from it and refuse to engage in ridiculous blamegames that you will never win, because he will never, ever accept this stuff not truly. he may apologise and turn on the crocodile tears fro a few days once he realises you are seriously no longer engaging but it's all part of the drama of him

tweedlezee Mon 15-Apr-13 12:30:24

that's what is so mad, he is made it that it 'my drama' and I am 'creating' the problems/looking for arguments. To talk about how I feel is to open myself up to yet more 'this is how you could be better' and so I try that and it upsets him because I am creating some sort of distance and by talking to people about how I feel I am being pathetic.
He will pick holes in my attempts, but blocks in my way in any steps towards things. Be a roadblock in my future. I have to fight with him over any change and yet I do not know where the fighting comes from and I am told it is me that makes these things happen. I ALWAYS say it is both of us. I am always put in a position where I have to apologise for my 'behaviour' making me feel like a child. But a 2nd rate child, one who is less worthwhile than my own children. Any decision gets his final say so yet if I seek his advice then I am accused of being incapable of using my own brain. I get cross at him, my son says 'mummy sad?' and he says 'look what you've done, even your son is noticing it now' whenever DS is sad, DP takes him and consoles him. Taking him from my arms. Implying that I can't do it. I pick him up on this and he says it all in my head. If you feel something, if you are part of something, if you are around something and tell someone how you feel how can it be brushed away so easily? if you cared, you would listen. but the more I wish to be heard, the more the insults grow. its crazy writing this as it all feels so like, another persons life. but its like I have been blind to it.

AnyFucker Mon 15-Apr-13 12:35:45

he says, he says, he says, he says

stop listening

and what he does with your son, ridiculing you and humiliating you in front of him is disgusting

You should leave him for that alone.

tweedlezee Mon 15-Apr-13 13:12:15

...and that's the truth. Right there.

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 15-Apr-13 13:36:38

"its crazy writing this as it all feels so like, another persons life. but its like I have been blind to it."

It's not crazy at all. When you're in the middle of this kind of treatment, constantly trying to keep a bully happy but failing because they don't want you to succeed, it can become almost obsessive. It's a destructive blend of the confusion of being told night is day on a daily basis, and the desperation that comes of feeling responsible for keeping the relationship together. It's why I tell people in your situation to get themselves out and away where they can take some deep breaths, think clearly and get a different perspective. You haven't been blind but you've been channeled in a particular direction by someone who has had you on a tight rein and wearing blinkers... It is a shock when you realise.

ponygirlcurtis Mon 15-Apr-13 14:10:02

Really well done for emailing your dad. I hope you will get support from him - sometimes, having the back-up from RL people can be very powerful in helping you realise that you are fine, it's him that's horrible.

It sounds as if you are seeing things quite clearly. he is being awful and abusive towards you, and your lovely children. The longer you stay, the more worn down you will get, especially now you can see him for what he is. Speak to Women's Aid and get a plan to leave in place. You can do it - it might be a bumpy road, but you will find support on here if you need it, whatever stage you are at.

gillybeandramaqueen Tue 16-Apr-13 19:38:56

I've been with someone like this. Get your family and trusted friends to help you get away from him. ASAP. Sooner rather than later. Or before you know it, a couple more years will have passed and you will be an even more controlled, empty shell and it will be all the harder to get your soul and your life back. Do it for your kids. They do not need to see their mum slowly being destroyed and living in what cannot possibly be a happy and positive environment...

Be strong and bigger than him. Lots of luck and love to you xxx

tweedlezee Sat 04-May-13 09:33:42

there's me thinking It could be ok. I always think it could be ok. because when I see him with the kids it breaks my heart to think about them not being with him everyday. they love him so much. I thought I would put myself first, I thought I could live alongside him but he will always push me down. I have been offered a job just one day a week through a friend. considering I haven't worked for 18 months it seems wise to slowly get bk to work. he said "it sounds fine" was happy when I arranged childcare for the littlest, I moved around all the days, got settling in sorted. the lady has asked me to go in and see her next week for an hour or so to sort things out. so he says "that SHOULD be ok" of course I ask what he means by should and the whole evening EXPLODES! Ending with me being told that this job was not ambitious enough, that it doesn't make monetary sense (60 quid a week), is it what i want to do with my life, etc... I don't know! all I know is I am over drawn, you give me £40 a week to run this house (and that has only been in the last 7 days) and no access to money. you have spent 3 years making me feel that your business is more important than me and my time and now you are making me feel like wanting to work one day a week is selfish. And yet you hide it all behind controlling words like "it SHOULD be fine" what is should????? IS it fine or not fine? do you support me or not? Why can you not be happy for me? WHY IS IT ALL ABOUT YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( I make no apologies for grammar, I am verbally spewing on mumsnet)

SundaysGirl Sat 04-May-13 10:49:01

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I think you are seeing now that you will be damned if you do and damned if you don't. That is, these kinds of abusive people will never let you do anything 'right' because they don't WANT you to succeed or to be happy, they want to feel the 'power' of tearing you down.

Had you got a job with more hours that was more 'ambitious' as he puts it, you would have been berated for not seeing the children as much or some other reason.

When you begin to realise that all they do is set you up for a fall it makes you angry but it can help to realise it's not your fault and there really is nothing you can do, no way you can twist yourself, to please this person and get the love and care you need from them. Because they just don't want to be that way to you. sad

He doesn't want to be happy for you. And withdrawing money like that is financially abusive.

Also you say how you felt / hoped it could all be ok, but men like this prey on that optimism and hopefullness, throwing you just enough every now and then to keep you there, but with no intention of ever treating you well. As others have said the longer you stay the more he will suck from you.

tweedlezee Wed 08-May-13 18:33:57

And we have this amazing weekend full of niceness and today? I asked about childcare for this job i have an interview for and he says "you just want to go over and over the same thing again" (i just talk about stuff like a person) and later when i question him on why he said it, he tells me that he didn't say it. HE DID!!! I shouted at him. I just blew my lid that he would question what i klnow is true, what i heard with my own ears.
And he gets in from work and barely asks me about my day, telling me he's tired and making me feel it is so outrageous that i would want someone to be interested in me. It's like one step forward, 90 steps back and i dont know if i am coming or going. I was on such a high today. The kids and i had such a fun day and i braved going to the opticians with them despite it being really hard work. Thanks to my Dad giving me money I was able to treat them to a cake at a cafe. He doesn't know my dad gave me money.
Is it so bad i shoul drun away? I dont want to run away from my own life. I have worked so hard to get here and to have all this. But he has to knock me down from my joy. Like my joy is painful to him. Or is that just me being insecure. I dont know anymore

ColinCaterpillar Wed 08-May-13 18:53:40

IME, partners like this get raging jealousy when good things happen to you. My ex would rain on my parade over promotions, praise etc. if something good was on the cards for him, he'd say, 'jealous?' like he wanted me to be. I would always respond in seriousness, 'honey, I love you. I want good things to happen for you, of course I'm not jealous, I'm happy for you'. It was LOST on him.

You really need to read the EA thread.

tweedlezee Wed 08-May-13 19:40:07

What's the EA thread?
even when i spoke to him on the phone, asking him about his day, he was standoffish with me.
this evening he has called me all sorts of names because i challenged him on how he was behaving when he came home from work. he barely hugged me, i made him tea, he only said thank you after i left the room. when i challenged him on this he said he was tired. i thn said how i felt i should be treated and i was accused of being self-involved. laying into me whilst giving the kids a bath, getting really angry because i was staying calm he then (after tleling me about how bad my attitude was etc) proceeded to say "i can understand why that person you used to live with used to hit you" (he hit me once - i left straight away, bet he couldn't even name who he was or where i was at the time).
The thing is, it all started because i asked him if he wanted me to put the kids into childcare form 8am so he could drop them off earlier on his way to work. then i toilet blocked, he was going to go to work leaving it blocked and i told him that was not ok. these 2 things plus my fun today seem to have changed his mood. We had such a fun weekend. its like living with 2 people. i just stand up for myself and expect to be treated in a certain way, like all people do. we have our expectations in a relationship.

ColinCaterpillar Wed 08-May-13 19:44:03

It might make for sobering and upsetting reading; or maybe it will clarify a few things and you'll feel like you aren't going mad at all.

Read the links, read our ramblings, lurk or feel free to join. See what you think. No pressure, we're all lovely and we're all working it out together

tweedlezee Wed 08-May-13 19:44:40

thank you x

ColinCaterpillar Wed 08-May-13 19:54:29

It sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders, standing up for yourself and acknowledging your needs.

Anyone who says you deserve physical abuse is committing emotional abuse.

The Jekyll and Hyde/nasty nice thing is par for the course - so you can't see straight and it keeps you where they want you.

TheVermiciousKnid Wed 08-May-13 19:54:59

What a nasty bastard. sad

Piemother Wed 08-May-13 20:01:26

God these men do it straight out of a textbook don't they confused

My ex has content argued everything - even on mn.

Op, I am divorced from a pathetic emotional abuser and couldn't be happier. You could too x

tweedlezee Wed 08-May-13 20:08:53

it just hurts doesn;t it because i truely have 2 of the kindest most beautiful children who spend all day talking about their day. the wind blows down the chimney and straight away its "daddy?" i also have no job, no support system close by (though my mum and dad are amazing and know all that is going on and i speak to his mum all the time) i have a job interview (which he has done his best to belittle) on friday. i need him to have the kids from 2 and i have had to lie about the time as i know he will be late and tell me i am being up tight that i dont want to be late. i guess its good i wont have to divorce. we are not married. he has told me he wouldn't marry because of my "attitude". nice! i have loads of friends who love me and i am so grateful to them yet i dont want to spend my whole time telling them what a shit he is and stay with him. but when its good (like at the wkend) it is so good and i really enjoy being with him. why cant he just be like that all the time? yet he makes it feel like its my fault? but i dont tell him to react so horribly to what i say! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!!!!!! smile

tweedlezee Wed 08-May-13 20:10:37

children who spend all day talking about their daddy.

tweedlezee Wed 08-May-13 20:11:44

piemother what does it mean to 'content argue'?

tweedledeez, good grief. poor you! get your job, just get your independence! what a prize nasty piece of work he is.
Bringing back previous partner's abuse and saying you deserved it? why do they do this?
He may be a psychopath, which is impossible for you to live with.
So sorry to hear about this.

tweedlezee Wed 08-May-13 20:19:57

it barely touches me now turbochildren. i know what i have and apart from shouting in his face this morning (because he put his face in mine and told me i was lying about what i know i heard) i barely get cross. i have no energy. all my energy goes on making sure my children are happy. and they really really are. yet he tells me that he thinks i want to control my son (because i tried to get him to potty train). But when i pick him on this he tells me that i am taking it the wrong way and that he tells me what a good mum i am all the time.
sorry if i am spilling my life all over this. i just have no outlet, this is saving my brain and making me realise what is going on

ColinCaterpillar Wed 08-May-13 20:28:01

It sometimes doesn't touch you - how else could you survive? You become resilient and you shouldn't have to be and it's quite damaging long term but ensures you don't go mad short term.

Controlling your son?! What rot. I believe you are socialising him. Bloody hell. Keep talking and don't apologise.

tweedlezee Wed 08-May-13 20:44:54

truetrue. how else does one survive but to kick in those survival instincts? I knwo it is not ok. it does indeed twist my brain. i DO need some independance. he has made me dependant yet berates me for it. tells me to ask for money but then says he doesn;t have any when i do. wont pay for a holiday or bday present for our kids but can spend 1000pounds on a work van

ColinCaterpillar Wed 08-May-13 20:53:10

Again, yep that's the game. Mine wanted me to do everything for him yet complained I had no backbone; when I developed a backbone, he complained. He could tell me black was white and then if I agreed with him, change his mind.

tweedlezee Wed 08-May-13 20:55:39

he will agree with anyone but me, unless he is in one of his 'good moods'.

tweedlezee Thu 09-May-13 08:27:33

so he says he cant give me money for my sons bday present but i go upstairs to get my passport from his drawer and theres a huge bundle o fmoney in a n envelope. Also, after last nights argument i woke up this morning and he is all sweetness and light like nothing has happened. aslo noticed that the loud crash i heard after he had said horrible things ot me was him punching the door, there is a huge crack in the wood. i had this horrible dream about trying to run away and calling the police but i couldnt get away, i was hysterical and kept trying to call the police. i think its because i had to sleep next to him after all the htoughts i had been having.
he woke up this morning and tried to cuddle me, i batted him away. he said he "wanted to talk" so i said can i have a minute to wake up, he said of course. then after about 10seconds got up and said he was busy today so couldn't talk. MEH! I am sending up supporting evidence for a council house. i would just like it if he moved out - but he wont.

Jux Thu 09-May-13 09:04:37

This is awful, tweedlezee.

Talk to WA. Talk to CAB. WA can recommend a family law expert who will tell you your options. There are legal ways to bar him from the house so that you could stay.

tweedlezee Thu 09-May-13 09:38:22

eeurgh managed to pluck up the courage to wring WA and they are busy. cant really call in the evening because he is around. i cant call on my mobile because i wont be able to pay the bill. feel so sick and sad and angry. i was so happy 2 days ago and now he has done it again. why? its like he has to rage at me so he can feel normal. to say all those things in front of my kids. to be so cold, to say i was lying when i heard it with my own ears. I WAS THERE!!!!!!!! got a friends coming around this afternoon but nothing will make this better. nothing.

cestlavielife Thu 09-May-13 10:02:57

" aslo noticed that the loud crash i heard after he had said horrible things ot me was him punching the door, there is a huge crack in the wood. "

take photos and report to police - he might lash out at you/dc next.

go to police dv unit and tell them ask them to put marker on your phone so if you call 999 they know to come urgently.

did you take the money from the drawer?
have you your own money?

the nice/nasty is typical. you need to act next time he is nasty - leave / ask him to leave / call police

the making you alte was a tactic my ex employed too. again it's a typical control thing.

it is all in lundy bancroft book if you can get hold of it why does he do

go talk to your gp and/or hv - record what is happening and see what help they can refer you to .

cestlavielife Thu 09-May-13 10:04:06

also se eif there is a local WA equivlaent in your area - look on local council website under domestic violence - he has smashed door - this is violence enough besides all the emotional abuse .

smashing objects put you on alert as you then worried it will be you next

tweedlezee Thu 09-May-13 10:25:47

cestlavielife thank you. well i get the housing benefit paid into my account. i have a job interview tomorrow so hopefully that should work out so i can start working one day a week. i have a little bit of money. i didn't take the money. i am goign to speak to my dad later hopefully. i just want it all to go away. i know it won't, i know that is not an option but i feel very tired and emotional today. i was angry last night, so frustrated and the fac that he woke this morning all sweetness and light has made me feel so confused and emotional. i have no release for my anger.

"i can understand why that person you used to live with used to hit you" said no decent man ever.

Keep trying with Womens Aid for advice. I don't know why you are even bothering talking to him now. You know how it will end. He can still be a father to the kids but you don't have to stay in a shit relationship like this anymore and they will be far happier not listening to it all. I lived once with a man whose moods changed and expected me to be sweetness and light with him too and it is exhausting and unhealthy. Get your dad to help you get out.

tweedlezee Thu 09-May-13 11:54:14

bringbacksideburns you are very right. and the list of things he has said in his time goes on. and its always my fault he says them.he has stated all that is happening now is a result of my actions.

Foundapound Thu 09-May-13 12:17:04

tweedle Have you got a back up plan for if your dh doesn't turn up at all for childcare for the interview? Would it be possible (as it's with your friend) to take the kids anyway, or for your mum/dad to meet you there and wait with kids/walk kids? That way, if he's late, you can just go to the interview anyway without giving him the pleasure of seeing you get wound up when he's late.

I come at this from the point of view of having a dh who, while not malicious, does not get the concept of being early or on time and does not understand how discomforting it is to be left wondering if someone will turn up. So I like to have a backup plan so I don't end up calling to say "where are you?". He's also twigged that I change times to build in some leeway, and either assumes I've done that, or gets arsey about it. I need to revisit this topic with him...

tweedlezee Thu 09-May-13 12:23:43

he does that too, i always change times like if he's getting from the station (like never) i will take half hour off so he is not late. i have a friend popping round this afternoon (i will get shit form him for this as he gets cross if he thinks i have spoken to other about our relationship) so i might ask her if she can help out. i need this job, its sort of mine relaly, just need to make a positive impression. mum and dad are so far away so sadly they cant help on short notice. though thinking about it, its my mums day off tomorrow so worse come to worse i could ask....

Piemother Thu 09-May-13 14:16:11

iPhone! I meant 'counter argue'

Here is an example...

Me: the way you badger me about sex is really upsetting me...

Him: I've been meaning to tell you how angry I am that you took Claire's advice (referring to 2 year old incident)


tweedlezee Thu 09-May-13 15:15:10

piemother THIS! Totally this. There is no acceptance of how my opinion/way of thinking. And when i make this statement it gets countered with "you dont listen to MY way of thinking" "You are not takng on board what I have to say"
it feels like i am not allowed to stand up for myself, like i am not allowed to expectations of how i want to be treated. that i have to make all the effort, all the changes yet i am allowed none of the decisions

Jux Thu 09-May-13 17:00:49

"But right now we are talking about this. We can talk about that afterwards."

I have read this, and variations on the theme, on MN for years. A month or so ago I used it on my dh. He shut up completely.

Piemother Thu 09-May-13 17:15:05

I am angry on your behalf. It is so infuriating and very abusive hmm

I can recommend divorce grin works for me!

Piemother Thu 09-May-13 17:16:03

Jux - I tried that with exh dodnt work for me hmm

BerylStreep Thu 09-May-13 17:31:35

He's awful - your head must be completely messed up because he is gas lighting you. Pretending you misheard or imagined things he said, nasty and nice - it's textbook.

Keep trying WA. You need to get away from him.

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Thu 09-May-13 21:18:20

Jux - do you mean he effectively said, "OK, we won't talk about either, then"? Or he shut up about his issue and listened to yours?

Jux Fri 10-May-13 09:01:50

I had the chance to air my views, Charlotte. He's a bit bombastic and can really project his voice.

tweedlezee Fri 10-May-13 10:59:37

Bombastic LOVE that phrase

sassy34264 Fri 10-May-13 11:14:37

These kind of threads get me soooo worked up. I would relish a chance to argue with these knobs.

When he changes the subject to something completely irrelevant. I would just wait till he finishes and say,

' you know what this is? fuckwittery. Complete crap that you sprout ever time i have a grievance to throw us off track. You are an headfuck and if anyone was stood in the room right now listening to this they would think you were a fecking arsehole. There is only so long someone can live with this kind of headfuck and i will end up leaving you in the end, if you don't start to acknowledge that i have feelings that need addressing. It's draining and makes me see how pathetic/insecure you really are.'

Mine tried something similiar and i have said a version of the above, and also things along the lines of- 'you deflacting again' (mantra style) 'what makes you so special that whenever i have a problem with you, you turn it around, so that you're mad at me, do you really think that you are soooo important, that no one is ever allowed to find fault with you? Who are you exactly? '

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Fri 10-May-13 11:32:12

sassy, I tried a less ranty version of the above, more along the lines of Jux's suggested response... and was told that I was controlling. hmm You can't make people listen if they don't think you should be talking. That's a deep-seated belief and it won't change with a bit of rational talking from "the wife".

sassy34264 Fri 10-May-13 12:38:31

I know charlotte and i totally believe it is less hard work to just leave.

But i'd still like to argue with them. grin I'd love the challenge. I'd be laughing in their face, if they tried to say i was controlling.

I think the difference is, the place that people are in. I haven't got any love/feelings invested in this situation. I wouldn't be interested in trying to get them 'to see me' i couldn't give a rats ass if they see me or not.

Until you detach from them, the situation and just DO.NOT.CARE you can't win. They have a hold on you, because you are trying to get something from them (understanding) and make the relationship work. Where as they are just trying to control you.

I would just go out my way to do everything they didn't want me to do.

I've been in an abusive relationship (free 12 years this sept) and i just have a complete aversion to anyone treating me this way. I can't stand it. I can't stand it when i see others either.

I agree there is no winning.........until you leave.

sassy34264 Fri 10-May-13 12:55:53

Could try this-

'whilst you might think you are dazzling me with brilliance, what you are actually doing is baffling me with bullshit. '


tweedlezee Tue 20-Aug-13 07:49:51

I started this ages ago when things were peaking again. Then they settled down. I switched my focus onto myself and I have had an amazing summer but here we go again. I cam back from a festival in june and the morning of the first day I woke up at home I said "for fucks sake" in my sleep when he was getting out of bed. I received a TORRENT of abuse about my attitude and how I should have come back from the festival happy and how ungrateful I was. this is his new focus - how ungrateful I am. I also get told that how I parent is wrong. ALOT! I was going to go to my mums and asked if he wanted to come with me, he said he'd think about it. the kids got collected by my mum and then I left later. when I came into the house I said "busy, lots to do" and this caused him to get shirty with me (???!?!) he wouldn't make a decision about whether he would go, then managed to make it so I couldn't leave until 7.30 pm (they live 3 hours away) because he had to check the oil/water/petrol. (I CAN DO ALL OF THESE THIGNS BUT WHEN I SAID THAT HE LAUGHED). Last night was the worst though. I got back from a festival last weekend. he told me how grateful I should have been when I returned that he let me go. (LET ME GO?!!) I told him he doesn't let me go anywhere and he told me how f'd up I was that I focus on the negative. he layed unto me about my parenting style when I wanted to discuss our life together. he threw a glass of water in my face last night when I was talking ot him about being uncomfortable/unhappy at home. when I said about him not doing enough around the house (I got back from the festival to a REALLY dirty home and he told me he didn't do any because it was nicer not to). I feel sick, i'm tired, I am tired of being told off like a child in front of my own children. please help me. I don't know what is up or down anymore.

mummytime Tue 20-Aug-13 08:06:22

This is physical abuse now. The water is physical abuse. So what are you going to do?

Phone WA again and keep phoning. Or phone101 and report the abuse to keep it on file.

He is not a good Dad BTW - a good Dad does not refuse to give money for his son's birthday present.

tweedlezee Tue 20-Aug-13 08:09:13

i'm scared

tweedlezee Tue 20-Aug-13 08:48:56

spoken to WA. before they picked up I nearly hung up but I am glad I spoke to them. I really hope I find a way out of this.

foolonthehill Tue 20-Aug-13 09:03:06

you need to find a way out of this...because you know there is a cycle, he will be just nice enough to suck you back think "it's not so bad really" then a couple of months/weeks/days and you are back to obvious get fed up, get some strength then he "hoovers" again and you are back sucked into this soul destroying mess.

He will not change
You can do something to free yourself
make plans, do it safely and deal with the fall out.
you can do this
it will be worth it

mummytime Tue 20-Aug-13 09:16:06

Well done!

fusspot66 Tue 20-Aug-13 11:22:01

Bumping so the usual wise mumsnetters will see you on active. You're very courageous.

tweedlezee Tue 20-Aug-13 11:38:18

so I have spoken to a council project about everything and the words people keep using is "no, you're right, it's not ok". I have to remember that this is not ok. the way he is and the abuse he is levying on me is NOT OK!!! I have a half hour appointment with a solicitor to talk about my options. I have the chance to go to my mums and I could but I have a job, friends, a home here and the are my support system. they are the amazing people who have used their friendship to form a giant mirror so I can see what I have become. I am not happier, and I will not get happier until there is distance between the 'us' that will never be. WHo knew this would all unfold in front of my eyes on the internet/. it is good to look back and see my words thoug

myroomisatip Tue 20-Aug-13 11:40:26

Can you move back home with your parents? I would in your situation.

Are you married?

tweedlezee Tue 20-Aug-13 11:53:34

not married no. I have a bad attitude so he wont marry me. (?!?!?) I guess I could, they are so far away though and we have a life here, the kids have a life here. my friends are here. maybe I should but I fear being able to come back from that place.

foolonthehill Tue 20-Aug-13 12:06:55

talk to the solicitor first, there may be a way to get him to move out, there are also other places to stay.

If you can get a recommendation women's aid locally they will know who understands domestic violence.

Have a safety plan and gather important documents together give them to a friend to look after (look at the Women's aid website fro safety planning)

make sure your internet history is deleted and use incognito may not think he will search but he might and this is a safe place.

Look at to check your financial situation post break up.

gird your loins, it is hard but it will get know you can't stay. For your own sake and for you DC.

tweedlezee Tue 20-Aug-13 12:11:00

thank you. I have spoken to solicitors and they are going to get back to me. I keep thinking there must a way of making this better but the only way to make it better is by not being myself and playing at a role which I have never wanted a part of and to constantly be wrong on all fronts. it is no way to live your life and to know someone will use a physical act to silence you is a real kick to the gut. I know it will get worse because it has already got worse and when he is hitting me I will think it is ok because I didn't even flip out about the glass of water being chucked on me. I always thought if someone did that I would go mental. I didn't, I still sat there. frozen almost (and really fucking cold)

tweedlezee Tue 20-Aug-13 12:11:34

gird your loins - like a warrior. I think I am going to need to be a warrior

MarieB1974 Tue 20-Aug-13 12:14:43

I read a book recently about abusive relatioships, was a fictional book but it sounds a lot like what you are going through and it helped me understand a lot about my own relationship too. Hope you get the strength up to leave so you can get on with living the rest of your life x

myroomisatip Tue 20-Aug-13 12:18:11

Good that you are getting as much advice as you can.

I would keep a record of the abuse but obviously, be very careful.

Whether you can get him out or whether you move yourself, it will be much easier if you are apart.

tweedlezee Tue 20-Aug-13 12:18:12

and then when he left the room, after apologising profusely for the water when he came back in he asked me why I was still sat there and I said because I knew you were going to come back. he then shouted that I was a f'ing liar. I asked why he thought I was lying to him (he has said that a few times recently) and he told me all these times when he said he thought I had lied. I haven't lied. I may have not told him stuff because it was un-important (like how much an hour I get paid at work etc which I thought was more than it was). its like trying to complete an incomplete jigsaw puzzle that someone keeps removing piece from.

foolonthehill Tue 20-Aug-13 12:34:28

^its like trying to complete an incomplete jigsaw puzzle that someone keeps removing piece from.^

yes, this

don;t waste your energy trying to understand him, use it to free yourself.

you will feel much stronger if you can detach your emotions for a while and observe him as if through a glass window....(Hmm that is interesting behaviour) rather than engaging.

however if you are stronger then he will be aware and beware the escalation as he tries to grab back control.

i did not believe that my H would escalate....not the extent and speed, to my cost. Be like the scouts..prepAred...and keep your phone on you.

tweedlezee Tue 20-Aug-13 14:12:43

he calls "how are you" me "i'm fine" him "i'm plastering today"
him " are you ok?"
me "i'm fine"
him " I don't want to argue with you"
me " I don't want water thrown in my face"
him "well that's the same as arguing isn't it?"
me "no, you don't have to throw water in someones face during an argument"
him "well then we should stop arguing"
me "no, everyone argues, you just need to do it constructively"
him "ok, see you later"

he's gone.

tweedlezee Tue 20-Aug-13 14:35:56

off to sign up to an agency that takes housing benefit.

foolonthehill Tue 20-Aug-13 14:41:04

life with the FW (you could probably guess what F stnds for the W is for wit)

Good luck!
I just want to say something about your children and their 'daddy'
I'm writing my dissertation right now (well I'm procrastinating on mumsnet) about DV and mother blame. One thing that is glaringly obvious in so much research is that there is a presumption that just being around his kids makes a man a good father. That they benefit from his presence even if he's lazy (never does housework, feeds them shit, plays play station while they watch tv) uninterested, or even abusive. And that abusive men (which yours is) actually use the children to perpetuate the abuse. They either withhold affection from the child when pissy with the mum in order that she runs around placating him to restore harmony, or they let the child down (break promises etc) to inconvenience the mother and wreck her independence, or they even attack the mother child bond (look at silly mummy, mummy is so mean/stupid/etc, or just being Disney dad, undermining, no discipline etc) in order to hurt the mother.
Abusive dads are not good dads and your children don't need to see him every day. What is more, children who are scared of their father often appear super loving and attached because they are anxious and fearful of his reaction, or of losing his affection because they understand on a deep level that it is conditional. They try to be perfect children for him (and horrors for mum!) because they are protecting themselves.
Good luck x

tweedlezee Tue 20-Aug-13 16:58:32

so I have spoken to womens aid, next link and a social housing agency. oh and the solicitors. I have also spoken to my mum (who has been aware of a lot of what has been happening, as has my dad) I have spoken to my best mate who has also just left a very emotionally abusive partner. I feel no stone has been left unturned today.

JaceyBee Tue 20-Aug-13 18:49:35

Ehric your diss sounds fascinating is it for a Masters? In what? I'm doing mine in therapeutic counselling next year, I seem to remember you do something similar??

Well done tweedle! Jacey I'm doing social work. It is fascinating, but long! It's a 2 year masters with the dissertation in the summer holiday. Is yours a year? I'd love to do another afterwards in something specialist but I doubt I will be able to afford it!

tweedlezee Tue 20-Aug-13 19:50:01

he threw the water in my face because I was not being constructive. oh and told me again, twice, that I deserved it. I feel sick.

foolonthehill Tue 20-Aug-13 19:56:56

Stop engaging with him.
You cannot change him, you cannot make him understand, he will never be reasonable and he will get worse.

you have seen him for who he is.
If you need to get out now and sort the formalities out from a safe distance then do.

If this is a second water incident then he is using it to press your told him you did not like it and that it was unacceptable to you....he is showing you how little he cares for you and your opinion (and right to an opinion).

this is escalation because you have obviously been constructive and pro-active are coming out from under and he is terrified...he is losing control of you.

BE CAREFUL Op and be prepared to leave at a moments notice. you may not want to think that he could do more than water but he could and possibly would. Don;t underestimate him and don;t leave him alone with the DC get a bag stashed somewhere safe..

foolonthehill Tue 20-Aug-13 19:57:34

And by the way YOU rea being very constructuive just not in any way he approves of (or hopefully knows about)

tweedlezee Tue 20-Aug-13 20:01:05

do you think I really need to get up and get out? I have been laughed at by agencies re:housing. I cannot go tonight or this week as I have work and commitments. he knows that. not a new water incident but he approached the subject . came home all nice. I need someone to remind me that this is not what he is like because if he was, it would not be a FING problem. And then he says that, twice. AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

shadesofwhite Tue 20-Aug-13 20:20:00

Your pathetic P sounds like the twin to my STBXH. grin

I Second Womens Aid suggestion. You can do it, I did it. Been through worse than you have and I totally understand how you feel. I'm still in a refuge and can't be any happier knowing the bastard is out of my life for effin good. While you are there, make sure you get all the help you can, Councelling, Pattern changes therapy groups and invest In some self help books. I strongly recommend 'Emotional Vampire' by Dr Bernstein and 'The Dominator'. Worth every penny and time to help up-your confidence as you prepare to get back into the world with your little ones.

Onwards and Upwards. Goodluck OP (((((hugss)))))

LoisPuddingLane Tue 20-Aug-13 20:21:05

You don't deserve it. Sorry if this has been covered (I'm cooking and can't leave the pan...) but can Women's Aid help with housing?

I bet most letting agents were not interested. If it's anything like here (Belgium) they want an employment contract before they'll even look at you.

JaceyBee Tue 20-Aug-13 20:26:50

It's a 2.5 year programme, I'm finishing the PG Dip part in January and starting the diss in April/May. Hopefully! It's 20,000 words! Plus I work 25 hours a week and am a single mum so it's gonna be no social life for me for a while!

Massive respect to you doing social work, I have such admiration for you guys. Tough job. Best of luck with everything smile

shadesofwhite Tue 20-Aug-13 20:28:07

You seriously need to leave the Bastard! Please don't let a 'one night prince charming smile' win you back into more abuse. He knows how to hook you back and he seems to be doing it. Forget everything else, take your beautiful children away from that environment. Run like the wind and Don't look back.

tweedlezee Tue 20-Aug-13 20:39:55

I just need to find somewhere to run to. all my friends have small homes without space for kids. tomorrow afternoon I will try to speak tot he local housing associations and see what they can do. I guess I am technically homeless. Thing is I have got on a course I REALLY want to do and so I need to stay in the area to do it. I am loathe to put it off another year because that is what I did last year.

smile thanks jacey
Tweedle the council will put you off from applying for housing to be sure but that doesn't mean you can't apply.

LoisPuddingLane Tue 20-Aug-13 20:43:01

What about your homeless persons unit at the council? You may end up in a hostel or something though.

tweedlezee Tue 20-Aug-13 20:45:07

yeh I am on the housing register already so I will have to get in touch with them and see if it changes my status. gee whizz. and I have to sleep in the same house as him. (screams at ceiling)!

foolonthehill Tue 20-Aug-13 20:56:51

You don;t have to stay, you could if necessary walk out to your local police station with your DC and be rehomed either in temporary accommodation or the local refuge.

it depends what happens next.

venting here is good, but don't let the frustration make you more stuck than you are

myroomisatip Tue 20-Aug-13 21:07:58

{{hugs}} to you.

I only found the courage to leave when the balance was tipped between being scared of leaving and being scared of living the rest of my life like that!

Have you been in touch with the local D.V. unit at the police station?

You will get through this, hopefully sooner rather than later! Please keep posting smile

And as said upthread, please do not fall for his niceness... My ex was like that, nice, nice, nice, NASTY, nice, nice..... etc.... Did my head in!

I ended up self harming, on AD's, I had counselling several times, CBT, I begged a psychiatrist to 'put me away', I so wanted to get away from him. Honestly, it really does get worse. Well I can only speak for my own experience. sad

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