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Sordid discovery - or could it be innocent? What do you think?

(93 Posts)
Katy71 Sun 07-Apr-13 20:04:59

Earlier today I needed to send a photo via email. Was on DHs iPad so sent it via his email. Checked to see it had gone and instantly saw in the sent folder an email DH had sent to a yahoo cn email (china?) a few weeks ago when he was on a business trip to LA. the address was 'Asian massage'. The email was blank - just a self taken photo of DH. He was wearing a t shirt and looked a bit scruffy - in bed maybe? He had sent it at 9am on the Monday morning, LA time. What is that all about? Thoughts please.

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Sun 07-Apr-13 20:09:30

He's sent a photo of himself to someone for some reason.

Google the email address he sent it to and see what comes up.

CajaDeLaMemoria Sun 07-Apr-13 20:09:59

Did you note down the exact email address?

Search it, both in his email server and online. See what comes up.

Katy71 Sun 07-Apr-13 20:19:46

I did that and nothing at all comes up. 'no results found'

Katy71 Sun 07-Apr-13 20:21:58

By the way looked again at it and he def sent it from bed.

ImperialBlether Sun 07-Apr-13 20:24:55

Have you had reason to mistrust him before, OP? It seems odd that he's sending a photo of himself if he was wanting a massage. Was there anything else in the Sent messages that was a concern? Was there anything in the Bin?

deliasmithy Sun 07-Apr-13 20:31:55

I'd be checking the internet search history etc.

And then I'd explain what happened and ask for an explanation.

SlumberingDormouse Sun 07-Apr-13 20:35:07

Very odd. I'm struggling to think of a reasonable explanation, dodgy OR innocent!

Could it have been some kind of a mistake? I can see how it would be possible to accidentally send one of my iPhone photos to an email address I've used before. It would only take a few taps. Having said that, I've never done it! Perhaps an app could have sent it? Seems unlikely though.

If it's not a mistake, it does seem odd that your DH would send a photo of himself to a legitimate masseuse (reminds me of another recent thread about massages!). I have heard of men sometimes sending photos to prostitutes though, often penis shots but sometimes normal ones. I don't know why, but apparently they do. I hope that's not the explanation.

I suggest you email the address yourself (maybe from a different account to your usual one). Send a photo of a man and/or ask for a massage, then see what comes back. You may get nothing, a whole load of spam, or perhaps a reply from a legitimate or sexual 'masseuse'. You'd probably get to the truth that way.

Katy71 Sun 07-Apr-13 20:41:58

Nothing in sent messages or bin on ipad. He has a code on his phone - to keep kids off it he claims. I know he looked at Asian porn years ago. Should I confront him now?

Katy71 Sun 07-Apr-13 20:48:24

Sorry cross posted with you dormouse. That was my first instinct - sent a blank email a few hours ago but was from my account with my name - so not surprisingly have had no response. Good idea to send one of a man pic. Will do that if poss!

Katy71 Sun 07-Apr-13 20:49:45

Do u think he could have spent night with escort and was sending a pic to her to remember him by?

BrianButterfield Sun 07-Apr-13 20:55:27

Could it be a virus that takes a photo from your webcam? I know it sounds farfetched but it can happen! Did it look like he took the photo on purpose?

ArtVandelay Sun 07-Apr-13 20:56:59

Is he looking at the camera? What is his expression?

I've accidently photographed myself before but then the photo is offcentre with a slack jawed expression not looking at the camera (gormless).

It's very strange and I'm not surprised you are concerned.

ArtVandelay Sun 07-Apr-13 20:58:36

I admit I don't have asianmassage at yahoo.cn in my address book though, sorry sad

Charbon Sun 07-Apr-13 20:58:40

I think this is prostitution, yes. Whether the photo was taken before or after is anyone's guess although I'd suggest it was before so that the client who turned up matched the photo requested in the booking process.

CabbageLeaves Sun 07-Apr-13 20:59:44

D'ya know I've never accidentally sent a picture of myself in bed to an email address called maleescorts@....

I think it's highly unlikely it's innocent!

Katy71 Sun 07-Apr-13 21:02:48

He was looking at camera.

SlumberingDormouse Sun 07-Apr-13 21:04:35

I agree about his expression and posture being important. I'd say it's more likely that a man would email an escort a picture before meeting her rather than after. Don't forget of course that prostitution is illegal in the US so the risks involved are much greater on both sides than they would be over here. Thus, there may be greater secrecy. But we're getting ahead of ourselves! I hope you get something back from the email address soon. A male-looking name or picture might work better though.

littlebitofthislittlebitofthat Sun 07-Apr-13 21:04:37

look in his BCC (blind carbon copy)

If I want to send an email to 5 people and I don't want them t know each others details i'll send myself an email with the 5 people in the BCC

SlumberingDormouse Sun 07-Apr-13 21:05:29

X-post again: looking at camera is not good, sorry. My accidental photos are always very blurry and candid.

TweedWasSoLastYear Sun 07-Apr-13 21:05:31

Could be for hotel entry?
A photo for a " masseuse " so she can recognise the ' client ' in the foyer of the hotel?
Some hotels prefer only to let registered guests in with hookers up to the rooms, so meeting downstairs in foyer or bar make room access easy.

or could be for another much less seedy reason , but i doubt it

littlebitofthislittlebitofthat Sun 07-Apr-13 21:05:39

it could be that he was bored and trying to work out how to take and send photos.....

ImperialBlether Sun 07-Apr-13 21:12:12

Right, littlebitofthis, do you believe that?

SlumberingDormouse Sun 07-Apr-13 21:14:08

I've emailed photos before with a blank subject when I was working out to use it all, but to myself. Wouldn't dream of emailing those test photos to anyone else, especially not massage services!

Mondrian Sun 07-Apr-13 21:21:09

1-Escorts or prostitutes don't require your picture to make a booking, also very unlikely that he would send her a picture afterwards.
2-Once the deed is done neither party would want a reminder.
3-if he was in LA and the mail address was in China (cn) then there was definitely no physical contact.

Therefore the only likely scenario would be porn related or one of those girl in asia looking for husband sites ... I am guessing its more of a porn/fantasy/kicks kind of an issue and no need to blow it out of all proportion ... Still good to have a low level indirect chat about it. Many men have fantasies that they don't share with their wives so best to bridge that gap.

Katy71 Sun 07-Apr-13 21:22:16

He works in media and certainly knows how to send photos! The fucker. Don't know whether to confront yet. Have just sent email asking for a massage from a 'mans' email account.

Katy71 Sun 07-Apr-13 21:27:09

Mondrian - could the girl not have recently arrived from china and be in US but still using her Chinese email? I use my .co.uk one wherever I am in the world.

ImperialBlether Sun 07-Apr-13 21:29:00

Good idea, OP.

Does he have any history with cheating or with sex workers, either when he was with you or before he met you?

Can you access your online bank account?

Katy71 Sun 07-Apr-13 21:33:33

Not that I know of IB - tho now you mention it I did find an escort site on his history once - said it was some kind of porn related pop up. He has his own accounts and credit card as well as our joint one.

CajaDeLaMemoria Sun 07-Apr-13 21:37:53

I have three email addresses, all from different countries. They were set up while working or living there, and I use them all wherever I am. I'm not sure Chinese email is relevant... Especially not a Yahoo email address and you can set up a Yahoo CN address from anywhere in the world.

Hmm. I think, if this was me, he'd be needing a pretty damn convincing reason right about now.

SlumberingDormouse Sun 07-Apr-13 21:46:47

I agree. The .cn doesn't necessarily mean a Chinese location. Also, fwiw, I have had many porn and dirty chat pop-ups in my time but never escort sites... I think you need to go searching for those.

Katy71 Sun 07-Apr-13 21:51:10

This isn't looking good is it?

TweedWasSoLastYear Sun 07-Apr-13 22:06:57

No , not looking great .
I would hold fire on the accusations for 24hrs to see if anything comes back from those ghost emails you sent.
He will lie about it anyway . It will be something to do with work when he was out there or some other load of poppycock.

Sti check maybe , just to be sure? sorry.

ladyjadie Sun 07-Apr-13 22:12:48

I think it's strange that if he was sending a photo to someone he might want to/already had relations with, it was a photo of him scruffy and shirted in bed. It seems like a bit of a mystery. The 'Asian Massage' bit is obviously not looking good. I think Tweed is right regarding leaving asking about it until/if you hear a reply to the ones you sent. Otherwise it is too ambiguous giving him plenty of room to bullshit.

SlumberingDormouse Sun 07-Apr-13 22:13:18

Yes, in the present situation it might be too easy for him to lie his way out of it think up a reasonably plausible excuse so I'd try and gather more evidence if you can before confronting him.

DharmaBums Sun 07-Apr-13 22:25:29

Sorry op. you must be worried. Do agree with Mondrian though and think it may very well be webcam/porn-based. Fingers crossed for you. Big hugs.

Katy71 Sun 07-Apr-13 22:26:13

I'm quite naive but could Asian massage be just an innocent massage?

ArtVandelay Sun 07-Apr-13 22:37:02

Possibly. We often get flyers in the post for 'Thai massage' and 'chinese massage' that have premises in town and appear completely normal unsexy businesses. Brothels are legal here and advertise in the paper so if they were erotic massages I'm sure it would just state that boldly. If that makes sense or helps?

SlumberingDormouse Sun 07-Apr-13 22:37:26

Well, Thai massage is a (non-sexual) thing, but I don't think 'Asian massage' is. I Googled 'Asian massage' and it's all escort sites. Even so, I do find it hard to believe that he would send a picture of himself to a legitimate massage company.

Katy71 Sun 07-Apr-13 23:07:36

I've just confronted him. Couldnt keep it to myself any longer. He knew something was up - he had logged out of his email account already. First of all he denied that there was such an email - said he knew nothing about it, but refused to open his email account to see. I was very calm and persistent. He got quite angry and agitated, left the room. I said if he had nothing to hide then he should show me his texts and emails. He refused. Eventually started talking about how it must have auto completed. Obviously bollocks. I said as much and said he must have had her over to his hotel for sex. Hhe totally denied it. He has now gone to spare room.

Katy71 Sun 07-Apr-13 23:17:27

Views on his response anyone?

Numberlock Sun 07-Apr-13 23:19:48

Classic denial.

LaLaGabby Sun 07-Apr-13 23:20:56

I think this is prostitution. The email you found was probably the last in a chain of emails arranging to meet. He deleted the rest and forgot that one. To go to a brothel in this country you can just walk up. In America prostitution is illegal most places and the laws are quite often enforced, ie there are not open brothels. To find a prostitute you have to go through places like craigslist. They would want to see a picture of you if meeting in a hotel lobby as someone said, or if you are pitching up somewhere they might be worried about being busted. Sometimes expensive escorts need to see eg. work email address and then confirm you are who you say you are through linkedin etc before giving you the location. He probably took it in his hotel room impromptu before meeting. Maybe he had already deleted the email chain at that point and wasn't expecting one last email asking for a photo.

Of course this is just a theory, but much more plausible that 'he took it, and sent it by accident'. I don't think people usually send sex workers photos of themselves 'as mementos' either, don't think prostitutes feel that kind of affection for their clients.

Sorry flowers.

AnyFucker Sun 07-Apr-13 23:21:21

LIAR

deliasmithy Sun 07-Apr-13 23:25:45

Katy,
I don't know whst he's dobe, but the logical way to behave in an entirely innocent situation would be to first convince you of his innocence by offering a plausible explanation.

In fairness if I was innocent I would be hurt by the accusation. But that would be my second concern.

The issue of pin codes etc - I dont know what the 'norm' is, but I know all OH's passwords - I could get into his email, phone, Facebook etc if I wanted.

madonnawhore Sun 07-Apr-13 23:26:34

Imagine if the situation was reversed OP.

Your H asks you about a dodgy email he found in your sent items. You are genuinely innocent. How do you react?

Do you look puzzled/horrified, get on the computer straight away and try to get to the bottom of things because you want to reassure him and you're worried you've got some odd virus that's been emailing random photos of yourself to your entire address book?

Or do you throw a strop, refuse to let him anywhere your computer and flounce off to sleep in the spare room?

In short: is that the reaction of someone with nothing to hide?

Bessie123 Sun 07-Apr-13 23:28:17

Shit, sorry op, but he is totally lying. flowers

LaLaGabby Sun 07-Apr-13 23:29:41

X-posted, I think the denial and refusal to open his email account rules out an innocent massage, mistake, etc...

Katy71 Sun 07-Apr-13 23:35:32

I am in shock and none of this feels real. Feel weirdly calm but my heart is pounding. Do you think he would have had sex? Or is it more likely a massage ending with her massaging his dick?

deliasmithy Sun 07-Apr-13 23:35:48

Yes, thats it.

If I knew nothing about an accusation being thrown at me I'd take a look as id view myself as entirely innocent.

Then, I might query why someone had been looking.

However, if id done something wrong but thought I could get away with it, going on the defensive could seem like a good diversion tactic.

ArtVandelay Sun 07-Apr-13 23:37:36

Well, if he's acting like that, something is not right. Don't know what I'd do in the face of angry denial like that. I wouldn't believe him though, sorry.

Ponyinthepool Sun 07-Apr-13 23:39:00

Prostitution. The photo is security for the girl in case anything happens to her. The Chinese domain is to get around US prostitution laws.

His barefaced lie is enough grounds to boot him out completely. Expect him to deny this until he's blue in the face, and making you think you imagined it. Strength to you OP.

LaLaGabby Sun 07-Apr-13 23:41:16

I also think the 'yahoo.cn' address is just a bit of marketing to reinforce the fact that the sex workers are 'fresh of the boat'. hmm Was the Monday morning the day he left, the start of his stay in LA or something in between?

One possibility is that he emailed in response to an online ad for paid sex or simliar, but that they didn't actually meet in the end. believe it or not there are people on craigslist/infidelity sites etc whose only interest is to collect photos or string people along. But I think the fact that massage was in the address and the email was sent while he was away suggest he was after something in person, not dirty chat or similar.

Katy71 Sun 07-Apr-13 23:41:20

I am devastated to admit that I think you are all right - it seems there is no innocent explanation. Is there?

Ponyinthepool Sun 07-Apr-13 23:42:44

Also, pop ups don't show up in history. There is no accidental way for an escort site to end up there. So sorry :-(

ImperialBlether Sun 07-Apr-13 23:42:47

OP, I'm really sorry this is happening. Just remember, though, that whatever he tells you now will be the minimum he thinks he can get away with.

madonnawhore Sun 07-Apr-13 23:49:23

Well, you've found some very dodgy stuff in his history and he's behaved very weirdly when confronted.

Quite understandably you're not happy with this. So you get to say what happens next, not him.

If his reaction isn't good enough for you then tell him you need him to leave for a bit while you have a think about what you want to do.

There's no innocent reason why he would have that sort of site in his history or why he'd be emailing photos of himself to that address. So he needs to start talking or fuck off tbh.

samlamb Sun 07-Apr-13 23:52:57

Non nm hugs ((())))

Booyhoo Sun 07-Apr-13 23:53:14

"Hhe totally denied it. He has now gone to spare room."

to concoct his story.

samlamb Sun 07-Apr-13 23:54:17

*mn blush

Booyhoo Sun 07-Apr-13 23:59:17

i know if someone said they'd seen something dodgy on my phone or laptop my absolute first reaction would be to ask them to show me it.

madonnawhore Mon 08-Apr-13 00:00:25

Exactly Booyhoo, you'd be like 'WTF!? Let me see?'.

Booyhoo Mon 08-Apr-13 00:03:31

yes. that's it. "what? no way! where? let me see" open laptop with person right beside me. prove my innocence.

Katy71 Mon 08-Apr-13 06:18:28

Anyone up yet? I've been awake most of the night thinking about what is next. His angry reaction worries me. At about 12.30am I went in to ask him again to tell me the truth. He woke up with a start and told me ' to fucking give him a break.'

Mondrian Mon 08-Apr-13 06:31:57

His reaction was not the best, breakdown of communication or lack of it is always worrying, but it is important to reserve judgement until you can get to the bottom of it. Porn could still be a viable culprit and raise similar responses from him. What would you do if sex was involved? What would you do if porn was involved? Are you happy with other aspects of your relationship? Does he travel a lot?

Guilty or not you want to use your head to proceed and rushing into confrontation may not be the best way forward.

His reaction is angry and defensive which makes me think that he has something to hide. You may never know exactly what he has done, you will need to decide whether you know enough to act on it.

GirlWiththeLionHeart Mon 08-Apr-13 07:09:38

Agree completely with boo if it was innocent he would've asked you to show him or explained it rationally. He completely denied it existed even though you had see it hmm

Did you take note of the email? Maybe you could write to them

Numberlock Mon 08-Apr-13 07:12:46

Second the plan to ask him to move out while you decide what to do next. This woukd be a deal-breaker for me I'm afraid.

LadyMountbatten Mon 08-Apr-13 07:17:27

Were things ok in the relationship before this?

snowshapes Mon 08-Apr-13 07:18:15

Oh goodness, I am so sorry you find yourself in this situation. Agree it does not look good even if he did not follow through on the meeting it still looks like he contacted someone and he has reacted badly to your legitimate quuestioning of the email. I do think holding back from confrontation a little to see what he says, to see if you get a reply to your email and to have time to process this yourself is a good idea. But am not sure I really see a positive outcome as not sure if you would be able to trust him after that reaction. Really sorry.

Ponyinthepool Mon 08-Apr-13 07:29:54

He will likely be very defensive and angry with you to scare you off pushing the issue any further. You'll need to stand your ground and make sure he knows how seriously you're taking this. At the moment he won't feel you have enough evidence to give you any sort of confession, but in my opinion the email and his refusal to be cooperate is enough. There is absolutely no innocent explanation for this. As other posters have said, think about how you would have reacted. And think about whether your husband would accept being fobbed off with 'fucking give me a break' if he found something that concerned him? Not likely.

deliasmithy Mon 08-Apr-13 07:32:24

I explained this scenario to my OH, he immediately said "high end prostitution". So sorry.

essexmumma Mon 08-Apr-13 07:42:26

I'm sorry this is happening OP. How were things between you generally before this?

ArtVandelay Mon 08-Apr-13 07:49:07

What a tit. I don't think talking is getting anywhere. I think you should go really, really cold - ignore him. Gather documents on the quiet, maybe find a solicitor and go to the Drs for sti tests. Don't cook or do anything for him. Hopefully he'll crack and tell you what's going on but either way you've got the information you need to keep healthy and to go it alone if necessary. Also you will have kept your dignity, you need to scare him and begging or getting emotional just gives him the upper hand. Hugs.

happyon Mon 08-Apr-13 07:49:51

I'm sorry. It's classic anger deflection. He is guilty but will deny and make you out to be wrong. Stand firm. He will try to wear you down.

What an utter bastard: he obviously cares little about women if he betrayed his wife and with a prostituted woman.

Katy71 Mon 08-Apr-13 09:09:04

Thank you all so much for your help and support. I know he will continue to deny and make out that I am somehow the one in the wrong. I am dreading all that is to come. We have been together for more than 15 years, we have young kids - and I love him. Well loved him until I found this out.

Ponyinthepool Mon 08-Apr-13 09:36:26

Do you know what you're going to do OP? Is he at work today? Do you still have access to his laptop/email?

If you can get more hard evidence it will at least cut through the bullshit denials and get you into a position where you both know where you stand.

I hope you're ok, what a horrible thing to discover. I have some personal experience with this unfortunately and it's no fun :-(

Catbert4pm Mon 08-Apr-13 09:39:41

Katy, have you had a chance to think about whether what he appears to have done (whatever that was exactly) is potentially forgivable, or whether his seemingly lying about it is a deal-breaker in itself?

You poor thing. I hope he tells the truth then you can at least decide what to do based on the facts.

Wishing you well x

Morning Katy, hope you're doing OK. His angry reactions say it al IMHO. He's asking you to 'give him a fucking break' but has offered NO explanation to stop you worrying, why??

Really hope he starts talking and you can both move forward.

DharmaBums Mon 08-Apr-13 09:54:35

Katy, I'm so sorry he's put you in this position. There's a really inspiration going at the moment by loserville., which I hope you will read. It's a real inspiration to those of us who have been deceived and cheated on. You will get through this. Lots of RL hugs.

DharmaBums Mon 08-Apr-13 09:55:28

*inspirational thread. Sorry

MadAboutHotChoc Mon 08-Apr-13 10:10:48

Another one who thinks his angry defensiveness is a sign of guilt.

How awful sad

If you want to find more evidence, go through everything - bank statements, mobile bills etc.

However you are justified in telling him the relationship is over - if that is what you want to do.

I would also get tested for STDs sad

If a person is falsely accused they may be angry but they also do all in their power to prove their innocence. Refusing to disclose anything is a panic response by someone who is guilty of something. He will be trying to think of a plausible explanation. There really isn't one. It is clearly linked to prostitution and he has either been with one or planned to. Either way- how can you come back from that?
So sorry

Walkacrossthesand Mon 08-Apr-13 13:17:45

Sorry OP sad. Do look at Loserville/losernomore's threads when she discovered her DH cheating - there are no more questions you need to ask of him, if he won't leave the house then you'll have to live separately within it, no domestic/wifely services. He wants to have a secret life that, even when you find out about it, he won't talk about. How is that a marriage?

SlumberingDormouse Mon 08-Apr-13 13:27:03

I woke up thinking about you this morning, Katy, and am sending my support. I'm afraid his reaction doesn't sound good. You may need to do some more digging. What are your plans for today? Will you get a chance to go through some of his things? Is there someone you could see and confide in IRL?

He won't show you his texts etc and is angry...

Guilty as.

So sorry OP. The fact he's caused you this much worry & doesn't seem to give a toss & is getting aggressive certainly isn't making him sound like a catch but he is trapped in a corner so will do anything to get out except tell the truth .

You deserve better thanks

tightfortime Mon 08-Apr-13 13:46:19

Time to go cold and silent. He will continue to fob you off until he comes up with explanation.

No engaging with him until he decides to show you any bit of fight. Ignore him coldly until he asks what's wrong and bite hard: I want you to fucking give me a brteak and tell me what happened. Until then, fuck off.'

Right now, you're still being nice. Time to get angry and see what he's made of. If he's innocent, he'll prove it.

Doubt it though.

Oh hell yes ^

If you're not having a break or moving out temp/perm then do not engage him. He doesn't deserve it & it will only wind you up even more when you keep hitting a brick wall. You'll know what to do in afew days, when the reality really sets in & what's happened sinks in, as well as his reaction.

So sorry again. You must feel all over the place

CinnabarRed Mon 08-Apr-13 15:00:50

How to tell if someone is innocent or guilty

Ask them a direct question. They will invariably seek to defend themselves human nature being what it is.

If they are innocent, their automatic first line of defence will be to deny the thing they have been accused of.

If they are guilty, their automatic first line of defence will be to attack the accusation itself.

For example: Are you having an affair?

An innocent person will say something like: No, I'm not having an affair! I love you. I know I've been [insert suitably plausible explanation for whatever has been bothering you].....

A guilty person will say something like: How could you think that of me? What a vile thing to suggest. Haven't I always [insert suitable platitude to put you off].....

Fragglewump Mon 08-Apr-13 15:32:53

Poor you. I was married to a real shitbag man who didn't believe that truth was important. The first lie I discovered was about his stag do - the week before we married. He apologised and I made it clear that lies were a deal breaker. This was a big red flag! Fast forward a couple more red flags, a couple of children, a couple of relate counselling courses and more bullshit and stomach churning worry about whether I should trust my gut feel or his stories. I had awful anxiety and depression and left in the end. It was bliss. Now happily married to a proper man who also believes trust is vital!!! Hurrah. Ask yourself how many red flags there have been? Does the rest of the relationship make up for the bullshit lies.? Is this a good relationship model for your children to learn from? Then make your choice. You are young and can have a very different life if you choose. Sending you hugs and blessings xxxxx

Mondrian Mon 08-Apr-13 15:43:57

Not true ... Different folks different strokes. Some people are really good at lying to the extent that they can even fool lie detectors.

On the other hand when you are emotionally involved its much harder to pass a rational judgement and not a biased one based on your inner feelings as there is a danger of assigning more weight to words & actions that confirm your inner feelings, its called confirmation bias. Hence the need for a very clear and rational head when dealing with potential adultery as consequences are life changing.

Mondrian Mon 08-Apr-13 15:45:04

Sorry not true was meant for Cinna post.

I do think you should trust your gut...worst case scenario is you're wrong but even then you'll feel better for not being in the situation.

thanks

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