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TOTGA (or, choco gets a life!)

(219 Posts)
chocoreturns Wed 27-Mar-13 19:49:26

well, it would be rude not to, wouldn't it?

This will be the least interesting thread opener in the history of mumsnet to anyone who hasn't seen my earlier threads, for which I apologise. I've managed to fall off the end of another one though, so here I am. For the tiny minority of you who actually care and know what TOTGA is, I promise that if and when there is anything to report, it will be posted here first.

In the meantime, anyone want to start a general stitch and bitch to while away the time?

AgathaF Wed 27-Mar-13 20:03:30

Lovely, a sparkly new thread. Hopefully it will see you have lots of fun (of all kinds) with some nice guys.

jinxdragon Wed 27-Mar-13 20:10:10

Hi choco, haven't commented on your threads before but have lurked (hope you don't mind!) as some of the things you have been through with your ex are similar to my experiences. I'm now living happily with another man (a wonderful one) and we have our own baby. I just wanted to say you are absolutely incredible, I wish I'd had the courage to deal with my ex and his family the way you have done. If I had, I might not be in the situation I am now, asking how high when they tell me to jump basically.
Anyway, you're brilliant and I want to wish you all the best xxx

BeingAWifeIsNotForMe Wed 27-Mar-13 20:18:17

Another former lurker popping out to say hi.

I hope TOTGA doesn't GA this time grin

Lueji Wed 27-Mar-13 20:21:57

Ooooohhhh. Exciting!

Fingers crossed for you. grin

chocoreturns Wed 27-Mar-13 20:24:35

<waves at jinx> nice to meet you! Sorry to hear you have been through the mill too, but hurrah at a happy ending smile

beingawife me too!!

I'm managed to scarf a whole easter egg while watching a horse give birth on the telly... and now I rather wish I hadn't. Eww.

chocoreturns Fri 29-Mar-13 09:20:43

ok, so... TOTGA has been in touch quite a lot. Offering to be a knight in shining armour to save me from bad dates. The last message (thismorning at 7.30am) was 'You are adorable, and a completely amazing person. I know we don't see each other often but I hope you know how much I value your friendship and wisdom, xxx'. Killer. NO idea if there's anything more than a close friendship in the offing there at all. He's impossible to read unless he's stood in front of me. Same old same old. Going to have to just get together and go with my gut instinct in the flesh...

And there's the fact that the mere thought of it working out with TOTGA means that I'm basically off the dating trip for now. When it comes down to it, it's a waste of time. I mean, I met up with the other guy last night. He made a 3 course meal, gave me a hotel chocolat easter egg... had champagne on ice. We had brilliant conversation and a definite connection. BUT he wasn't TOTGA and that basically sums up where I'm at.

I need to a) stop obsessing and b) stop dating, and just get on with life until suchtime as an opportunity to jump TOTGA's bones have a bit of a chat comes up.

BeingAWifeIsNotForMe Fri 29-Mar-13 10:24:35

It's easter, the time of chocolate and new beginnings GO FOR IT!!

BeingAWifeIsNotForMe Fri 29-Mar-13 10:26:53

And you are obviously the first thing on hhis mind when he wakes up, 7.30 am texts, that's lurve grin

Midwife99 Fri 29-Mar-13 11:14:31

Marking my place like a dirty tomcat as always!! grin

chezziejo Fri 29-Mar-13 11:48:41

Ooh marking place. Loving the sound oa a stitch and bitch session. TOTGA sounds like he could be The one grin I so so hope it works out well for you. The only interesting news is that my little DD who is 4 months old has slept through three nights running. Such an exciting life I lead. How's your sleep Choco? Hope the business is going well too xx I often think of you and wonder if your ok and LaLa too but she seems to have fallen off the earth. Soft bugger that I am worrying about people.

BerylStreep Fri 29-Mar-13 12:40:23

Sounds promising. Perhaps you should text back 'yada yada, when are you going to jump me?'


bamboozled Fri 29-Mar-13 17:37:42

Ooh, marking my place too..
You definitely need to jump TOTGA's bones, to get it over with if nothing more - would be rude not too!

chocoreturns Fri 29-Mar-13 19:15:35

I replied along the lines of I feel the same way, if you need anything holler... and got 'you are thoroughly gorgeous...x' in reply.

This could go on for eons haha, or it could get boring very quickly. It's rather amusingly teenage. I am banking on seeing him Sunday so that I can get as close as damnit to jumping him :D Although I still have the fear that he's going to turn around and say WHOA we're just friends what the hell is WRONG with you?? Still. Won't know until I get all Nike on his ass and just do it.

chocoreturns Fri 29-Mar-13 19:18:47

on an entirely other note, my DS1 (2.7yo) does not want to talk to his daddy on the phone now, ever. I have been trying to encourage him, but he is adamant. If I ask him do you want to call Daddy, he just says 'nope'. I said don't you miss Daddy? today, without really thinking about it (just trying to get him to agree to the call, as STBXH has tried to call him a couple of times) and he just gave me a funny look and said, 'err, no?'. Sad sad but as my mum pointed out, this is the consequence of the choice his dad made. And he's not going to appreciate that for a while longer yet.

Did I mention I finally filed for divorce on Tuesday?

bamboozled Fri 29-Mar-13 20:27:30

Woohoo - it's all go in your camp!! Well done you!

Most unlike me but when I was where you are at - some lovely friends gave me a book of '101 poems to save your life' -
'The End of Love' by Sophie Hannah
The end of love should be a big event.
It should involve the hiring of a hall.
Why the hell not? It happens to us all.
Why should it pass without acknowledgement?

Suits should be dry cleaned, invitations sent.
Whatever form it takes - a tiff, a brawl -
The end of love should be a big event.
It should involve the hiring of a hall.

Better than the unquestioning descent
Into the trap of the silence, than the crawl
From visible to hidden, door to wall.

Get the announcement made, the money spent.
The end of love should be a big event.
It should involve the hiring of a hall.

I thought it was the right attitude - time to start planning a party?! X

skyebluesapphire Sat 30-Mar-13 00:18:11

well done on filing for divorce.

I thing regarding TOTGA you do need to do something sooner rather than later. you could spend ages thinking that there is more to it than there actually is. or he could be definitely interested and if he is then why waste time grin. Having been in that situation several years ago.... I had a good friend. He flirted every time we met, really led me on. In the end I asked him if he was interested and he said no because I was too old for him (he is about 6 years younger...) so while all the flirting was fun, I ended up feeling like a fool sad so I say go for it if you think there is something there and then you won't get message around for too long.

Regarding phone calls - if XH rings when DD has got something better to do, she doesn't want to speak to him. Last night at my parents, I said, Daddy is on the phone, she looked at it and then whispered to me, I don't want to speak, I want to go and play dominoes with Uncle X. When he does ring, I have to pause the TV and make sure that she isn't eating or drinking, as if something else has her attention, then he doesn't get her full attention!. The other night I had to wrestle a carton of Ribena away from her as it was more important than talking to XH grin.

Your DS is just a toddler and at that age where its out of sight, out of mind. I think that DD is the same, because she only sees XH every 14 days, she doesnt seem to think about him in between any more. My mum said that it is going to happen, the less she sees him the less she will think about him. Sadly this is also true of your STBXH and DS.

Good luck with the divorce. I hope that STBXH doesnt mess you around with stuff

chocoreturns Sat 30-Mar-13 21:06:57

thanks guys, bamboozled I love the poem, thank you! And hi skye smile I know what you mean about knowing either way, I definitely need to ask as soon as possible (and practical). I'm glad your DD is the same as DS1, I've been feeling pretty bad about it and like I should encourage him more... but it's not exactly practical to do that with a 2yo is it?

I'm really glad I've filed now. I will definitely hire a hall when it comes through, taking inspiration from that poem!!

Speaking of hired halls... TOTGA is best man at a wedding today and just text me to ask how my day has been, and tell me his speech went ok. Shall I be a little bit pleased he's thinking of me at a wedding? haha.

BeingAWifeIsNotForMe Sat 30-Mar-13 21:29:43

Can you not reply with some cheesy comment about him really being the 'best man' grin

Midwife99 Sun 31-Mar-13 09:31:40

Yes good one!!

chezziejo Sun 31-Mar-13 10:44:37

Morning Choco. Did you manage to get a meet up with TOTGA? If so hope it goes well xx

BerylStreep Sun 31-Mar-13 11:48:06

He sounds like he is really into you. He wanted you to know that his speech went well - he cares about your opinion.

Excellent that you have filed for divorce - that's really taking a step forward. How long does it take for a divorce? What grounds did you cite?

We have a lovely sunny Easter Sunday here (although the wind would cut you in two). Off for a walk to clear some cobwebs. Hope everyone else has a lovely Easter.

AThingInYourLife Sun 31-Mar-13 12:36:54

2.7 year olds are bloody awkward and IME just find the phone a bit mystifying.

Your encouragement is (if your kids are as bloody minded as mine, anyway grin) just going to strengthen his resolve not to comply.

The best thing you can do for everyone is just take the pressure off the phone thing for a bit.

Also, I don't think it's really fair to ask a toddler if they "miss" someone. It's too complicated a concept, but the question seems to be giving them pretty big hints about how they are supposed to feel.

It's not your job to make a 2 year old do something he doesn't want to.

PS I'm not sure TO really GA.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Sun 31-Mar-13 12:56:05

Happy Easter choco. Just caught up here. Best wishes for your divorce.

Going to have to just get together and go with my gut instinct in the flesh well a bit of corset loosening as the sap rises is a lovely way to celebrate Spring I always say. Are you seeing TOTGA today...?

chocoreturns Mon 01-Apr-13 11:22:16

hello all smile so...I didn't see TOTGA last night. BUT I did go out with the girls for a much needed night out, and while I was out, we got texting. The upshot is that I am now more than sure it's not one sided, and he's taking me out for dinner on weds eve! I am incredibly nervous about it, but I guess that goes with the territory.

Divorce should take 4-6 months. I cited adultery, pure and simple (and didn't name her in the end. Just can't be bothered to argue about it). Can't wait for it to be done now, because then I get to throw a bloody big party!

I hear what you're saying about the phone calls, but it's a hard one. I don't routinely ask him if he misses daddy - it just popped out that one time and I realised straight away it was an unhelpful thing to say... ah well, can't worry about it too much smile

May I have a little <squeeeeee!!> about weds?? I think you may be right AThing that he never really GA... the only question is how the bloody hell am I going to handle it now? <silly goofy smile> I suspect it's going to be fun working that out.

chezziejo Mon 01-Apr-13 11:36:34

Aww so exciting grin they must have been good texts for sure. I'm crap at advice but enjoy the ride and take that in any context you like hehe.

chocoreturns Mon 01-Apr-13 11:40:27

<fnar> thanks! grin

they were good texts. Flirty but not explicit, very affectionate... fun. The kind that make you smile when you read them again. And he text me at 7.30am to make sure I was feeling ok and to tell me that I am thoroughly gorgeous, which is a rather lovely thing to wake up to grin

Midwife99 Mon 01-Apr-13 12:30:13


AgathaF Mon 01-Apr-13 12:36:22

Life's looking good for you, choco. I really hope Wednesday is very, very good.

I think he sounds rather nice!

Leaving monsterbabycurrants with DH today, who's got the day off work, so I can take the train to the big city and get books out of the library. I don't much care for pumping milk but then, Babycurrants doesn't much care for formula, so heyho! smile
Aparently it's going to be 'boy time'. When queried, laughingly, as to what that means, DH said they're going to do some important lying on the rug and chewing their fists 'only, you know, really butch, like. We'll probably pretend to be well'ard. Then have a cuddle..'

And I, ladies, am going to sit in a thai restaurant and eat a bowl of noodles bigger than my head. Sod the diet, if I'm on Manhattan, I'm going to eat lots of Thai! smile

BerylStreep Mon 01-Apr-13 17:47:22

Here's to Wednesday!

bamboozled Mon 01-Apr-13 22:43:29


BerylStreep Tue 02-Apr-13 19:35:01

Only one more sleep till date night!

chocoreturns Tue 02-Apr-13 19:39:56

haha, I know... I'm trying not to get too worked up smile Feeling so tired today I could just about snap. Putting the kids to bed was as much fun as pulling teeth. Methinks some beauty sleep may be in order! I am trying to keep my expectations low for tomorrow, and just see it as friends catching up. Then anything more is a bonus but I won't be getting in a tiz if it's a chilled one... I did offer to put him up (spare room!) for the night but we'll see wink

I'm a bit creeped out today. My abusive ex-boyf (the one before the twunt I married) has been checking me out on LinkedIn. It doesn't mean anything at all, but still makes me feel a bit icky. Def not going to have any more wankers in my life - only the decent need apply from now on!

Damn straight! grin
As for date or no date, I, would just go out being your usual beautiful and lovely self, and see what happens.

I mean, I would def shave my legs and put the good pants on too grin but whatever happens your well enjoy spending time together, is my point. Which is grand!

MusicForTheMasses Wed 03-Apr-13 09:50:48

Can I for one make a stand and say you are being very selfish? I'm off out myself on an overnighter with the kids so not sure I'll be able to catch up with all the goss until possibly Friday! wink I expect there to be some juicy gossip too my girl! grin xxx

cheeseandpineapple Wed 03-Apr-13 13:57:32

Hello Choco, found your new thread in the nick of time, very excited for you but can completely understand why you're also trying to manage expectation. Hope it's a lovely evening for you, whatever the outcome.

I can feel the frisson from here!!

Can you please try and squeeze in the odd update throughout the evening for us desperadoes who are living vicariously through you?!

My libido seems to have done a runner of late. My DH's new beard (which he's taken to petting in a somewhat off putting manner) could be a possible cause but hope yours is suitably exercised in the not too distant future!

chocoreturns Wed 03-Apr-13 14:31:15

hehe... not sure about updates tonight, but while I'm getting pee in my pants nervous today I actually went and had a blow dry and had my eyebrows sorted out. I'm not going to wear my come fuck me boots (despite contemplating it!!) but I am making an effort to look more yummy, than slummy mummy! And now at least I don't have to worry about doing my hair in the 20 minutes I've left myself to get ready between putting the kids to bed and him arriving (doh!).

Have also shaved legs, check... Wonder if any of this will be noticed? Kinda worried he may cancel or something at the last minute! Honestly. I need to pull myself together! grin

ps the blog is back, however I was reminded that TOTGA actually reads it so I've refrained from gushing on there! haha.

BeingAWifeIsNotForMe Wed 03-Apr-13 15:28:49

G'wan g'wan g'wan wear the fuck me boots grin wink

Seriously though I hope everything goes well tonight, no naps for the boys this afternoon and early bed for everyone

Having read your posts and blog I've no doubt you are going to be fantastic in your new career, if you are in the south west, sign me up on your client list grin

Will be obsessing checking your thead for updates this evening.

Don't let him ga this time flowers

Midwife99 Wed 03-Apr-13 16:49:04

WHY aren't you wearing the fuck me boots?!!! I absolutely insist that you do!!!!! wink

AgathaF Wed 03-Apr-13 17:03:02

Have a super, fab, great, lovely night. Shaved legs hmm grin.

BerylStreep Wed 03-Apr-13 17:54:35

Ha! I remember going on a date many years ago and I had the hairiest legs known to man, but it didn't matter, I was wearing trousers, or so I thought ….

Except later when there was a bit of kissing, he bizarrely tried to rub my legs from the hem up blush

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Wed 03-Apr-13 17:59:36

choco go have fun! Confidence and humour are great aphrodisiacs wink.

Dozer Wed 03-Apr-13 21:45:01

Ooh, not seen choco's threads for a while and there's a new man on the scene!

Wonder what choco is up to now!

Coffee brew?
blush grin

cheeseandpineapple Wed 03-Apr-13 23:11:30

Beryl, I think my hairy legs would give your hairy legs a run for their money, I've been away the last couple of weeks, forgot to pack a razor and whilst I could have bought one, couldn't be bothered and have now cultivated enough growth for David Bellamy to have a good forage through!

No update yet from Choco. Hopefully a good sign that she is otherwise occupied...

chezziejo Wed 03-Apr-13 23:16:27

Hope it's all gl

chezziejo Wed 03-Apr-13 23:22:36

Cussing this bloody phone

Hope it's all go

chezziejo Wed 03-Apr-13 23:25:56

Oh ffs. I have just done a 14 hour shift I'm knackered, got a poorly baby and this phone is pissing me right off. Nothing to do with the twerp operating it obviously. Anyway as I was saying hope it's all going amazingly well for you and this is the start of a wonderful happy relationship. You so deserve it smile

MushroomSoup Wed 03-Apr-13 23:33:38

What is TOTGA? And what on earth is Choco up to? Dirty little stop-out. She must know we're waiting.
Can we ground her?

bamboozled Thu 04-Apr-13 00:01:51

It's Thursday now.... Checking watch and tutting like my mum ....!!

hoChezzie, sorry to hear your baby is poorly. Miserable for you both!

I think Choco rolled in about half an hour ago with a kebab and is lying face down on her kitchen floor singing dirty songs.

Naaah ok, I think she came back and went straight to bed/to deal with a waking child. Probably..... BUT we still need to hear that it was all fab and fun! smile

chocoreturns Thu 04-Apr-13 08:20:43

good morning... grin

so, where to start hmm?

Well, we went back to the place it all began. The hotel we worked at together 10 years ago. We had the most amazing dinner and laughed and talked and talked... it was amazing. Half way through the dinner he admitted that he hadn't known whether it was meeting a friend or a date, but it felt like a date and maybe it should be. So we talked about that a bit, and the fact that it's terrible timing really. Then we kissed, and that's where it got interesting and confusing...

I now know what 10 years of pent up desire feels like (good) and what a bottle of wine and a G&T does to that situation (bad - inhibitions and reasonable caution out of the window). He came home with me and the inevitable happened (good) then the sobriety kicked in (bad). He wanted to stay (good) but neither of us could sleep, so at half 2 he left (bad). I said that I would wait to hear from him, as his life is much more complicated than mine right now (good) but now I'm waiting... (bad).

I'm not really sure if this is going anywhere at all, or whether it was just the culmination of a highly charged and somewhat inevitable emotional situation. I am kicking myself because I basically wasn't entirely prepared and had to call an abrupt end to events due to a sudden realisation along the lines of "fuck - there could be a baby if we don't calm the eff down, immediately. STOP". Feel a bit like we should have been more grown up about it all, but at the same time, its TOTGA. Surely the 10 years of friendship should help us ride this one out (pardon the pun).

I am adamant I will not call/contact him for at least a few days. For 5 minutes out of every 10 at least! The other 5 minutes I'm wishing I could text/call right now and just ask if he's ok, are we ok? Playing it cool seems a bit pointless at this stage. But maybe that's exactly what I need to do.

Not sure if anything is clearer or whether we have hit a new level of complex.


Midwife99 Thu 04-Apr-13 08:39:30

Oh god!!! Need to digest & ponder!! How exciting but I hope he doesn't run to his cave now!! shock

MusicForTheMasses Thu 04-Apr-13 08:39:47

Hugs xxxx You are such good friends I'm not sure I would do the whole play it cool thing. Just a quick, hope you are OK, you know where I am text wouldn't hurt in my opinion but I am a softy lol. Don't be too quick to brush over where you are emotionally right now either though. It's a big (fun, I hope) step for you both. Xx

AgathaF Thu 04-Apr-13 08:44:34

I think a text along the lines of you enjoyed the evening and hope to see him again, but understand that his situation is complicated. At least that would clear the way for you both to maintain contact as friends (for now?) or more if he is ready for that. I think playing it too cool could be interpreted as regret by him, if he is not thinking straight about things just at the moment.

chocoreturns Thu 04-Apr-13 09:11:24

ok, I just text 'hey, you ok today? x'

I don't want to talk about anything heavy. I would just like to know really. Going to leave it like that now for a while.

feel a bit confused right now...

cheeseandpineapple Thu 04-Apr-13 10:31:04

Choco, drink and history aside, when the two of you were together in a non platonic way, did it feel comfortable and "right"?

Suspect you're both going to be wary and cautious with each other now as you've crossed the bedroom line and it's new territory but keep the spark and affection with him, don't withdraw but no need to get too heavy and ask him to start picking curtains with you.

Good first text. If he's feeling confused, that's normal, you're feeling it too by the sounds of it but don't withdraw or read too much into his acts or ommissions. Keep things positive and light while you both process what's going on. You're further ahead than him post marriage breakdown. If he's wavering don't take it to heart. I wavered with my friend now husband and thankfully for the both of us he had the conviction to be there for me no matter what, even after I told him I just wanted us to be friends.

You've got the kind of relationship where you can be straight with each other eg is this a date type discussion.

Life's complicated for both of you at the moment and whatever will be will be but in the meantime, you can still aim to be ports for each other while you deal with all the challenges in your life and agree that you're not looking to soul search and get all the answers straight away but keep on being there for each other in a fun, positive way and just see how things unfold without expectation and pressure to immediately blend on basis of history.

You have to start afresh with each other, your relationship has shifted and no matter what, will not be the same again.

It might end up being completely brilliant, a disaster or something a bit grey and an anti climax. Too early to tell and whatever the outcome, it shouldn't be something you regret, you both had to cross the line, it was brewing.

And like any good soap, there has to be a cliffhanger. So we're all waiting with you to find out how Totty replies to your text!

BeingAWifeIsNotForMe Thu 04-Apr-13 10:32:52

Aw post date wobbles confused

Has he responded yet?

I think you're right to keep the tone of the text's light, but don't play it too cool, he may well be worried that he's over stepped the mark and radio silence will only confirm that.

Don't let him ga this time ((((((hugs))))))

DoingItForMyself Thu 04-Apr-13 10:52:42

marking my place with a big "wahey!" nice work missus.


bamboozled Thu 04-Apr-13 11:38:30

I agree, don't play it too cool, as you don't want to give the impression that it wasn't important to you, equally don't give him a key to the front door and a drawer grin
Dont overthink it, just enjoy it, it's so exciting, well done you, about time something great happened.

BerylStreep Thu 04-Apr-13 12:33:32

Sounds like a great night!

KirstyWirsty Thu 04-Apr-13 12:51:11

Hey choco things seem to be looking up a bit for you I'm glad to see - you were quite down the last time we caught up

I've figured out what TOTGA means smile Hope you hear back from him soon

skyebluesapphire Thu 04-Apr-13 12:58:22

Sounds like a good evening in some ways then....

Hope he gets back to you soon.

chocoreturns Thu 04-Apr-13 13:14:32

he got back to me <breathes again> Unsurprisingly he's confused and can't get his head quite around what happened. He's also very tired (had about 3 hours sleep in the end). I have replied letting him know that as far as I'm converned, I'm still his same friend, and whatever else is going on he can rely on that. We didn't sign a contract or start a relationship last night. In a decade long friendship there have been many beautiful moments... don't overthink it. And that I would take him out for a day to the beach (no booze this time) when he was next free, as a thank you for the lovely dinner. Feeling much better about it all now!

MushroomSoup Thu 04-Apr-13 13:15:11

I still don't know what TOTGA means!!

KirstyWirsty Thu 04-Apr-13 13:19:50

The one that got away mushroom

chocoreturns Thu 04-Apr-13 13:24:15

haha sorry!! the one that got away grin the shoulda-woulda-coulda guy I nearly dated in my twenties but never did. The one I've never really stopped wishing I could be more than just good friends with... that guy smile

chocoreturns Thu 04-Apr-13 13:25:10

ps cheese I may PM you for a chat about it all if that's ok?

MushroomSoup Thu 04-Apr-13 13:29:20

Ooooh!! I'm with ya!
How fab!

That all sounds rather brilliant actually. Hurrah grin

cheeseandpineapple Thu 04-Apr-13 16:41:36

Of course, absolutely. Hearing what you're going through with Totga takes me back, mine was a different situation but there are parallels. Never had a PM before, am a little excited. Will I know when it comes through?! Out for rest of day but drop me a message whenever you like.

chocoreturns Thu 04-Apr-13 21:23:19

you should see a red button on your inbox pop up grin

no further word from the man. I am quietly ok with that. I have put the ball back in his court and said he can let me know when he wants to hang out, so for the next day or two I'll just let it lie. Will probaby call over the weekend just to chat...

chezziejo Fri 05-Apr-13 08:27:17

Aww don't know what to say really. I think cheese is right and it could well be somthing amazing. It is early days tho. It might be a long few days tho waiting. Exciting times for you smile

Midwife99 Fri 05-Apr-13 10:02:22

I guess it's cave time. You knew that would happen though. I hope he gets a grip!!

DoingItForMyself Fri 05-Apr-13 10:35:22

they are so predictable aren't they?!

chocoreturns Fri 05-Apr-13 12:25:52

normal communication has resumed. I am not going to suggest meeting up/or (god forbid) 'talking' to him. There have been a couple of chatty texts back and forth so I am going to leave it to settle for a few days. He's allowed to freak out. God knows I would have done if it weren't for you lot to come and prattle on to. My friends in RL would think I was bonkers if I tried to tell them all the ins and outs of my thinking like I do on here! He does seem a lot calmer today. He has his little boy with him, which I think helps a great deal.

Part of the emotional storm he has going on is that his ex and son (despite being separated since Aug, including one or both of them staying with family away from the house they shared during that time) have only recently moved out of the family home. I can imagine how desperately sad he feels being in their house without him, or any of his DS stuff. His ex took every single thing that belonged to their son with her, including photographs of him (all of them) when she left. Now she doesn't want to let their little boy sleep over in case it upsets their DS...

I know how she is feeling. I have tiny children too, and it breaks my heart to be away from them. It feels frightening to send them off to their dad and 'give up' my time with them. It hurts more than I can describe to do that anyway. But they aren't possessions are they? It's not fair to try and erase their other parent (no matter how much you dislike them in the moment). Unless they are dangerous, obviously.

Even with everything that I've been through with twunt, I've never wanted to pretend he isn't their dad or keep the boys from knowing him. I'm not being holier than thou about it - it's fucking awful going through a break up with children involved. Even a 'good' one, with no bad behaviour on either side must be crucifying, as theirs clearly has been. From the outside looking in, it's clearly really early days for their new routine and I'm going to make absolutely sure I support him as a friend without putting the pressure on at all.

Bloody hell though, does make me want to give him a great big hug.

Midwife99 Fri 05-Apr-13 13:37:10

Well I guess you are one of those who believes that the kids come first & we must swallow our pride, grit our teeth & remain civil & encouraging of our kids' relationship with their Dad no matter what (apart from abuse or danger obviously!!).

She is obviously from the other "he hurt my feelings by rejecting me so I will punish him by making his relationship with his child difficult" camp.

Hopefully things will settle down & as she starts a new life will come to enjoy some nights off herself.

You are fab honey to be so patient & understanding thanks

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Fri 05-Apr-13 15:40:10

He is plainly hurting and if he is a decent guy who won't mess her about I hope his ex relaxes sufficiently to let him have ready access to his DS. Nothing worse than people using the emotions surrounding DCs to score cheap points.

bamboozled Fri 05-Apr-13 16:55:21

You are so kind and understanding - there should be a huge amount of good karma coming your way!

cheeseandpineapple Sat 06-Apr-13 01:52:50

Ah, Choco, you've come such a long way from your initial posts before Bean was born. I'm in danger of repeating myself but you're the ultimate Phoenix and T is fortunate to have you to help him get through his ashes.

Dare we ask how things are with other T&T at the moment? Totga has been a great distraction, hoping that means things are on a reasonably even keel with them?

chocoreturns Sat 06-Apr-13 08:31:37

well... T&T are moving today. So I guess I'm enjoying being distracted as well. They will see the boys tomorrow pm and then we're in the 'brave new world' of having them around the corner. I am not thrilled at all, but I am trying to think of the benefit to the boys (never having to be more than 10mins from home, still being able to do weekend rugby clubs etc, no 3 hour car journeys looming in their future...)

I am trying to take a keep calm and carry on stance. Nothing changes until it changes you know? I refuse to have a meltdown or panic just because they relocate. After all, this is MY hometown and I am happy here. What do I have to be scared of? I imagine OW must (or at the very least should) have a great deal more to worry about turning up on my doorstep.

getthegirladrink Sat 06-Apr-13 08:35:56

Ah mate sad how shitty. No advice really, just offering a virtual hand hold and brew x

Midwife99 Sat 06-Apr-13 08:56:56

Well T&T are the newbies not you so worry not. As you say all it means is less travelling & hopefully more contact for the boys. You as always will rise above it while they sink lower

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Sat 06-Apr-13 12:11:39

There goes the neighbourhood!

But honestly choco it is your hometown and you have no reason to scuttle around where you normally go - from the practical point of view, far more useful than them living under a rock miles away from you.

Absolutely - and you can do a wry smile at the stupid attempts to mess with your head, and concentrate on how good it will be for your boys to have a simple setup with their home and their dad's home not too far away.

Everyone in town knows he's a prick, after all - remember what the midwife said! smile

bamboozled Sat 06-Apr-13 18:50:36

Aww, fuckity fuck.. But you are so amazingly strong you'll get thru this too. It makes a huge difference to the kiddos too, to not have to spend hours in the car each weekend. I hated it when the fuckwit moved closer, but everyone still knew he was the fuckwit and the general opinion was even more on my side...
Hope tomorrow isn't too horrible for you.
Mine are off for a whole week with fuckwit now, the house is awfully empty with just me and Dr Bamboozled, who is telling me its too early to plough my way thru the wine - spoilsport!!

skyebluesapphire Sat 06-Apr-13 23:09:05

not nice having them on the doorstep, but like you say, from DS' point of view, it will make life a lot easier for them.

like you say as well, this is your hometown, so dont feel intimidated by them. and you can always move if you really want to. I hear John O Groats, Scotland, is quite nice, if a little cold grin

chezziejo Sun 07-Apr-13 16:01:41

Afternoon. Just checking in to see how are you are Choco. I bet it's a bit of a weird weekend for you really what with T and T moving. How's the texting going with TOTGA?

chocoreturns Sun 07-Apr-13 17:11:07

silence on the TOTGA front. Not sure whether to just leave it, or text him myself. I would like to have a coffee and clear the air, at the very least... but I don't want to heap pressure on (even unintentionally) at a difficult time.

T&T being here makes me feel very sick. I've been trying to be cool with it. But the basic reality feels shit. She didn't come to collect the kids today, nevertheless Twunt felt the need to announce how she was at home making a lovely cottage pie for the children and wouldn't it all be fabulous for DS1 to go and see his new room? etc etc. SIL popped round yesterday to see the kids too and told me how OW has been terribly excited about making a home for them all here, and can't wait to decorate etc etc. Twunt has other ideas, and says it's ridiculous to over invest in a rental... yes, well that sounds familiar. As it happens, I know that twunt has sourced their furniture from the local tip recycling plant, no doubt proclaiming how marvellous and 'functional' it is. She'll be lucky to persuade him to ever replace it (his mean-ness was one of my principle gripes, and turned into full on FA when he used to tell me what a horrible, materialistic person I was who 'ruined' his home by decorating it hmm then refused to allow me access to my own money to finish a job, ever, leaving us living in a bit of a shithole at all times).

I realise that history will no doubt repeat itself and she isn't going to be having a wonderful time with him always. But for now it just feels like the farce of their little family home is being played out under my nose, and she is the darling little pet making it all so beautiful for him angry. He actually refers to her by a pet name to me, which is fucking weird. SIL did say though that she clearly has made it her entire life's purpose to pander to him (no doubt to prove how much better a little wifelet she is than I could ever have been!). If she's content to do that ad infinitum no doubt they are much better matched than he and I ever were.


It was never going to be a good weekend, was it?


skyebluesapphire Sun 07-Apr-13 17:17:24

Oh dear. He is one screwed up Twunt isn't he, using the same pet name.....

Like you say, you are better off out of it and she will find out for herself in good time. Not your problem any more thankfully.

I know it's hard , XH sent me a picture of DD's room and bed etc and while it was very pretty, it just hurts to see it.

It's nice that she wants to make a home for them as obviously that's better than being mean to them but always remember, they are not her kids , they are yours and nothing will ever change that.

DoingItForMyself Sun 07-Apr-13 17:39:27

You know exactly how it will all end up for them, don't waste another minute imagining their cosy little set-up as you know full well the malice that is behind it all, its a facade and that poor silly cow doesn't realise it yet.

Let her continue to slave away cooking nutricious food for your little ones and twunt can carry on proving that he's Disney dad of the year. The boys can only benefit from this pretence of perfect family life and then they get it all for real when they come home to you!

As ever my hypocritical advice is to play it cool with TOTGA. So tempting to contact him, but he knows where you are. You are fabulous and don't need to do any running - any man worth his salt knows that and will not let you get away without a fight. Just give him time and space - he probably has lots going on this week too.

Be cool! xx

Midwife99 Sun 07-Apr-13 18:27:35

Yes my lovely - you are REAL, she is fake & has absolutely no idea what the reality will be poor cow
Of course you feel shaken - this is in your face just when you're having an emotionally testing time with TOTGA.
I just know that a really good future will be yours, whatever it is. Meanwhile we are here to hand hold thanks

chocoreturns Sun 07-Apr-13 19:21:10

thank you guys smile I am v glad I have here to have a wee vent. I am not going to contact TOTGA. He needs his space, and honestly, I think I do right now too. I don't feel much up to hearing about someone else's crappy situation when I am still feeling so raw about my own. Some days I can see that good future, on others it just seems so far away.

I am staying with mum and dad tonight, which helps. Back in the bosom of the best 'rentals in the world smile kids both asleep. A bit of TLC and an early night is on the cards for me. Plus, a proper shower in the morning without a 2yo audience! YAY for my parents!

bamboozled Sun 07-Apr-13 19:21:59

Oh, poor you - just kerp remembering, whatever ganes he Is playing, he'll never be able to keep up the pretence of being nice for ever, and you are not stuck with The Twunt anymore, she is...

BerylStreep Sun 07-Apr-13 20:22:19

Not nice to have your nose rubbed in it, but you are right, it is a farce - let them get on with it. Thank the lucky stars it's not you anymore, and your money is yours to do what you like with.

His pet name wouldn't happen to be turtle, would it? grin

skyebluesapphire Sun 07-Apr-13 20:37:46

. Some days I can see that good future, on others it just seems so far away.

I know the feeling, but fingers crossed its out there for all of us.

Don't get involved with the dramas of TOTGA, like you say, you have enough of your own, although hopefully not too many ahead of you now! If he needs a friend he knows where you are.

AgathaF Sun 07-Apr-13 21:39:27

Focus on the positives (nearer for the children travelling there, less worry about him driving them long distances etc), and try to place the horrible feelings and thoughts about them moving closer into a little box with a lid in your mind. Close the lid gradually.

chocoreturns Tue 09-Apr-13 13:53:59

thanks guys. I have a rather sinking feeling TOTGA is going along the lines of 'he's just not that into you'. No call or text for 5 days is not a good sign, however stressful his life is right now. If he was that into me, he'd be calling to talk to me about it. So I am fairly resigned to that one for now. Certainly not going to be buzzing around him like a fly.

My DS1 woke up crying this morning and asked to speak to daddy (he had a nightmare) so I let him call (it was just after 7am, not horrendously early). His father picked up, heard his voice and hung up!! Then text me 4 hours later to say I think DS has worked out how to use your phone, he rang me at 7.12am. I've replied, yes he did, he was upset and wanted to speak to you after nightmare. Did you hang up? (did not add the TWUNT at the end that I was thinking.) No reply. The really sad bit? When DS heard his father hang up on him, he just looked at me and said, 'Oh, daddys not sleeping. I don't want him now mummy actually.' (actually is his new favourite word).

I'm tired enough to feel perpetually sick today, as well as quite cross.

getthegirladrink Tue 09-Apr-13 13:58:16

Ugh, he really is a total tool isn't he? Makes me angry and sad at the same time, LORD alone knows how much he must make you levitate with rage.
TOTGA. Hmmm. I have come to the conclusion that men cannot multitask. Practically or emotionally. So leave him to it, props for being so level headed about it.
Is it too early for wine?

Oh choco! sad
I hate that man. You are doing a great job rising above it all, I will just be over here, nailing studs into a chair leg and muttering darkly.

DS 1 is having lots of nightmares atm. DS 2 woke every 90 minutes last night, for his own special reasons... So I am so tired I have no emotional filters.

chocoreturns Tue 09-Apr-13 14:08:35

oh blackcurrants I know that feeling well, you poor thing! I have managed to get DS2 out of my bed and into his own room, only to have DS1 pitch up around 3am every night instead. I asked him about it the other day and he announced that my bed is a 'sharing bed' and it's where he has to go when he 'cry and cry and cry and cries' so that he gets lots of cuddles. I don't have the heart to tip him back out into his own room for the time being. Apart from anything else, it's rather easier co-sleeping with a toddler (less worry about him suffocating or rolling out) but it's still not conducive to restful nights.

I actually threw in the towel today and despite it being my official start date for work, I put the kids into nursery and slept til noon on the sofa. I will go to work tomorrow instead, with a clean house and a calmer head on my shoulders I hope!

chocoreturns Tue 09-Apr-13 14:12:59

TWUNT alert:

"If it is before 8am please text first. I did not hang up on him, I have unstable mobile service here."

chocoreturns Tue 09-Apr-13 14:13:12


BerylStreep Tue 09-Apr-13 14:25:07

*unstable mobile service*

Yep, something's unstable alright. Like his grasp on reality.

Disengage, don't reply.

Good luck tomorrow!

Midwife99 Tue 09-Apr-13 14:30:27

Oh hun - twunt is such a effing twunt isn't he?! Had he EVER had to get up before 8am since the boys were born? Has he EVER been woken in the night?!!! It's easy to play happy families when you've had a lie in every day isn't it?!! I almost wish T&T have a baby just to introduce some trouble into paradise!!! angry

skyebluesapphire Tue 09-Apr-13 14:32:31

what a wanker. God forbid that his children disrupt his perfect little life?!

My twunt texted to ring DD last Friday, she was busy so I didnt reply and he hasnt bothered since.... it is so sad isn't it. they shout from the rooftops about their rights and access etc, but when it boils down to it, its only when it is convenient to them. Arseholes the lot of them.

DD is back in my bed on the odd occasion. I get the same reason, she needs cuddles or she is cold. Don't worrry about it, they wont still be doing it when they are 15 grin

tidy your house, have a nice sit down and start again tomorrow.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Tue 09-Apr-13 14:37:54

Moments like that you must think you're well rid. Father Of The Year again.

Re: TOTGA - he may be thinking, "Choco is in a good place now, the last thing she needs is to listen to me moaning on about my troubles"?

chocoreturns Tue 09-Apr-13 14:48:21

I realise my emotional filters may be defunct today too. I just sent a shitty reply, basically saying I don't have time to pander to him, then sent another one saying, don't mind me... I'm tired. Bleurgh. Today is a <fail>

Not to worry, as you say Skye, time for a cup of tea, a tidy house and a 'start again tomorrow' mentality!

Now, who wants to pick for me. Do I a) sort out my bins and recycling? or b) bleach my loos, or c) scrub the kitchen floors? Choices, choices... grin

Not to mention the snowdrifts of 'piles of crap' that I need to sift through to extract the bank statements and toddler art work from empty envelopes, junk mail, random packets of stickers etc. Which may also contain some very important documents for work that I have misplaced blush I am NOT a naturally organised mum!

BerylStreep Tue 09-Apr-13 14:55:21

Do the bins and recycling, then clear one worktop of paper, then have a cup of tea and a sit down. Do you have a system to put your important stuff into? The system is key.

chocoreturns Tue 09-Apr-13 14:59:49

no system. Although I have three large (empty) boxes currently labelled 'throw away', 'put away' and 'give away'. I also have two (empty) box files intended to house important house information and financial documents. The road to hell and all that...

ok grin the bins are going to get sorted. And the washing up. Then I'm popping out to buy an onion and will make some dinner.

I have already hoovered and put away all the washing, so I feel marginally better. And the extra 3 hours kip was incredibly necessary, so I consider that time well spent.

I genuinely don't think STBXH and OW think that 8am is a lie in. I think 6.45am is grin <prays for a baby for them both>

I agree: surfaces are key to feeling really sorted and organized. If I have clean kitchen surfaces and a clear desk it doesn't matter what state the floors are in (hint: terrible!) because I feel more sorted.

Bins and recycling is a good psychic clearout. There's nothing worse for my mood then trying to stuff something into an overfull bin.

Right now our sleeping arrangement is a bit odd. We live in a little flat with an attic bedroom, which is ours. DS1's bedroom is on the same floor as the bathroom, kitchen, living room, etc. At the moment I am in the attic bedroom with the baby in a sidecar cot, and DH is sleeping on the sofabed. So DS1 is rushing into DH's bed in the night, rather than mine. (This is deliberate. The stairs to the attic bedroom are dangerous, so DH would be tramping up and down them all night to settle DS1.) Right now it works because if anyone woke the baby after I'd resettled him I think I would scream, but I do miss normality, and I know DH isn't exactly comfy on the sofabed.

Also, whenever we move into another (hopefully less inconvenient!) place, we are going to have one of these under our bed. So if we have a boyinvasion in the night, either the child or one of us can kip on it, and hopefully get some decent sleep! smile

AgathaF Tue 09-Apr-13 15:49:36

"If it is before 8am please text first. I did not hang up on him, I have unstable mobile service here."

He is a tosser of the highest order. Really, he can only fit his child in during working/sociable hours? Twat. Would his mobile service have been more stable after 8am, I wonder??

Personally, I think a few more early morning phone calls would be perfectly in order.

chocoreturns Tue 09-Apr-13 15:49:36

ok: clean kitchen, check. Bins sorted, check. Recycling sorted, check. Solicitors bill unearthed (needs to be paid!) check. Now, time to make dinner so that it's piping hot when the tiddlers get home in an hour and I can feed, bathe, bed them.

Then I start sifting. So. Much. Sifting.

No acknowledgement of my emotional/tired texts. Must be nice there in their ivory tower hey? God forbid his children and STBXwife intrude. Tosser.

chocoreturns Tue 09-Apr-13 15:50:20

x-post with you Agatha grin exactly my thoughts!!

redtulip68 Tue 09-Apr-13 16:49:03

Hi Choco, thought I'd de-lurk having previously read your threads.

Welcome to the world of 'I love the children but I have a new life now' where STBXH seem so easily to forget what they have bought into this world. The text issue - I have the same. In my case its 'don't call me at anytime, if its an emergency text me and I may return your call.'

Well on Sunday I did exactly that. Text him to say how ill his DD was. I continued to inform him of the situation throughout the early hours of the morning, all day yesterday and eventually what the Dr said was wrong with her - Novo virus. His response 'Will I don't always receive the texts as I'm in an area of poor network coverage. Its your fault I haven't received them' He is in Wales not in the back of beyond!!!!!

I had the same when she was hospitalised last year - then his response was 'Well I'm four hours away what do you expect me to do?'.

I've decided to have very low expectations of my STBXH that way my disappointment is lessen.

bamboozled Tue 09-Apr-13 16:52:02

Stupid mutherfucker, really, it's a disgrace!
I cannot understand the lack of emotional connection these men have, and their lack of responsibility towards their kids emotional and physical well being.
Am absolutely steaming too - the fuckwit, who is so impoverished that he can only scrape together the princely sum of £200 a month towards his children's upkeep, despite having recently moved into a million pound house, and cannot dig deep to stump up a contribution towards dd2's school trip to France in the autumn term, has the girls staying for a week for the Easter holidays and has bought them a lab puppy EACH, wtf angry
I'm so wound up gggrrrrr

redtulip68 Tue 09-Apr-13 18:19:17

Bamboozled I have the same problem...pays when he feels like it or I remind him. Doesn't pay for 13 weeks a week minimum because he works as a supply and the latest is that he hasnt contributed towards DS's residential school trip eventhough he agreed to pay half towards (despite me having paid it all because he 'kept forgetting').

He makes everyone angry - I even had to take him to court to get him to pay towards our divorce because he wont engage a solicitor. Mine wont have them to stay because....where would OW live, he cant afford it, cant cope with...etc and amazingly STBXH also bought a dog! Is there an alternative script somewhere that we don't know about?

redtulip68 Tue 09-Apr-13 20:26:21

13 weeks a year, not 13 weeks a week!

chocoreturns Tue 09-Apr-13 20:27:04

god knows what the script is at this point, I think I have just decided it's all so much white noise and nonsense. I couldn't be more disappointed in him as a human being today, yet again.

TOTGA text saying that his ex withheld contact today at the last minute and he feels close to a breakdown he is so unhappy sad Not sure what to say/do in this situation. I think I underestimated how unpleasant their separation is clearly going to be. Have offered to hold his hand through it, as a friend. Otherwise, I suggested he go for mediation asap. But really there's not a lot else I can do, and it sucks.

Midwife99 Tue 09-Apr-13 20:43:10

I think TOTGA is extremely confused & overwhelmed & incapable of giving anything to you right now. Be a friend but expect nothing more I think for your own protection.

Re T&T - they will always disappoint - they are so self absorbed angry

chocoreturns Tue 09-Apr-13 20:52:12

<nods sagely along with midwife>

redtulip68 Tue 09-Apr-13 21:02:47

I think the script at this point is 'Me...I'm important, only me.' Quite often I feel that they have gone passed the lets blame everyone but me, and now believe that only they have a right to be happy and so are completely self absorbed.

But on a positive...I have two beautiful, feisty and intelligent children, and I am grateful for that. smile

chocoreturns Tue 09-Apr-13 21:05:53

exactly! my two are the loves of my life, I wouldn't ever change that smile twunts are just twunts. Irritating little bumps along the road of life...

Midwife99 Tue 09-Apr-13 22:08:55

Beautiful boys!! smile

chocoreturns Wed 10-Apr-13 11:49:30

I broke. I emailed him (totga)

Said that I would appreciate clearing the air, or at least knowing that he intends to at some point. Feel like 10 years of friendship might evaporate in a puff of smoke if this becomes a rug sweeping exercise... some things you can't just ignore and carry on. I would rather talk, even if it's just to say 'nice idea, not the right time/not for me' so that we can pick up and carry on as friends at least. I am in no doubt that he is not in the right place for anything other than friendship right now anyway. But it hurts me that I feel to awkward to be his friend when I know he's unhappy.

feel pretty meh today.

AgathaF Wed 10-Apr-13 12:12:57

I think you've done the right thing.

skyebluesapphire Wed 10-Apr-13 12:15:01

agree with Agatha

chocoreturns Wed 10-Apr-13 12:25:56

I hope so. I think I have, I am not a 'sit on it until we can pretend it didn't happen' kind of girl. Also, if he popped up in a few weeks time saying something positive (which I think is hugely unlikely, but still) I would no doubt by then feel completely narked off with him and not in the mood to be friends anyway. I'm slightly cross right now, but not irredeemably so.

it's occupying too much headspace I know that for sure. So for my own sake I'd like to deal and move on.

And that's a bloody good reason. I would have done it too. Never managed to play it cool in my life, I want to clear the air, always!

How's your sleep, lovely Choco?

LifeSavedbyLego Wed 10-Apr-13 13:21:49

I have followed your threads with increasing amazement at
A) your grace in everything
b) the extent of twunts twuntiness

Both leave me astonished. If I had but half of your grace and dignity I'd be awesome.

You are amazing!

Sorry nothing actually helpful to add. I too am avoiding house work. Though I did mop the floor this morning as ds1 dropped a bottle of ribena.

BerylStreep Wed 10-Apr-13 16:11:03

Choco, how did your first day at work go?

As far as TOTGA goes, what will be will be.

<Nods sagely>

chezziejo Wed 10-Apr-13 16:31:21

Afternoon Choco hope work has gone well today at least. I honestly don't know how you keep your cool with Twunter. It begs believe. I think midwife has it spot on with TOTGA. He needs to sort himself out but hey if it's meant to be it will be. Time is a wonderful thing and he needs it at the moment [ smile]

How's the sleep going?

chocoreturns Wed 10-Apr-13 20:13:24

work is a little overwhelming. I am trying not to panic about my lack of income and just trust that you need to spend a couple of months building up business, it's normal not to be earning much in the first month or three... I hope?

Sleep is not marvellous but significantly improved thank you! We had 2 night wakings from bean yesterday, as well as an hours visit from sprout in my 'sharing bed'. I was awake due to overthinking for at least another hour hmm which I could have done without.

So TOTGA replied. He said he appreciates a coffee and chance to clear the air would be good sooner rather than later. Also a bit about his XP - now she has decided he can't see his DS at all until she has reassessed how much contact is enough sad I can see a battle looming in their near future. I don't think there will be emotional room left over for anything other than solving this situation for a goodly long time. I've offered him a general hand holding, 'this too shall pass' type reply. Also pointed out that I was dangerously close to being pissed at him, so yes, coffee would be good if we are going to get back on an even keel. Sooner rather than later.

I think we can safely say any suggestion of romance for choco and totga is gone for the forseeable! May have to regroup and review next year. Or never. sigh

Midwife99 Wed 10-Apr-13 20:17:45

I hope the support would be mutual lovey - you've got alot on your plate without having to look after him too. sad

chocoreturns Wed 10-Apr-13 20:25:02

I won't be looking after him. I just want to have a relatively normal catch up with him so I can work out whether there is a friendship we can rescue there or not. sad

Midwife99 Wed 10-Apr-13 20:45:35

Yes it's such a shame after all these years sad

chocoreturns Wed 10-Apr-13 20:48:06

I feel like poo.

Going to make bottles up and go to bed.

I hope I wake up a bit happier sad

Midwife99 Wed 10-Apr-13 20:53:17

Ah I bet. Night hun thanks thanks thanks

chezziejo Wed 10-Apr-13 20:55:27

Night Choco hope you sleep and feel better for it.

cheeseandpineapple Wed 10-Apr-13 22:42:14

Hey Choco, hope you do feel less like poo tomorrow.. Your friendship is still there if you want it to be. He's in a lousy situation, with no or very little control at the moment.

What happened with him the other night was an "interesting" development in your relationship but would say better at this stage to agree to shelve any discussion about what it means and just focus on being emotionally supportive for each other and get back to the ease you had with each other.

I think, to do that, you need to take the lead and tell him you're making an executive decision that any heavy duty chats about the other night are off limits, what will be will be and in the meantime you want your best friend back and hopefully vice versa, because right now you both need that far more than you both need a relationship and the complications which come from that.

You have to take the physical side of things out of the equation for the time being and remove any pressure you both feel about talking it all through.

You have a better chance of resuming comfort with each other that way and if things are going to develop in the right direction, they will be able to more naturally and at a manageable pace.

Don't despair or get despondent, Choco, you can reclaim your friendship but I think you have to take control, what he's going through is really harsh, imagine if tables were turned and Twunt had your boys and you could only see them at Twunt's whim.

I think it would be nigh on impossible to imagine giving anything else any focus under those circumstances?

Based on what you've told us about his situation, his need for emotional support and understanding might be greater than your need for immediate answers. Chances are he can't really give you any answers at the moment, although I know you're not seeking them as such and just want to clear the air. But sounds like you both need a strategy for clearing the air in a way that hopefully will really work and not be a superficial sweep under the carpet. What I'm suggesting might sound like there's a bit of sweeping involved, but it's more about acknowledging that it's too complicated and important to sweep aside so just for now give it a little resting home so you can get your friendship back on track within the context of what else is going on.

Let him feel completely comfortable with you again knowing that even if he doesn't get in touch with you for a few days, you are still completely there for him without expectation and judgment as a friend would be.

I know, this is much easier said than done but I suspect he won't stay away if he genuinely feels he can talk to you without any added what about us type complications.

The rest will flow if it's meant to and once he's got his contact sorted out and things are on an even a keel as possible you can see how things are between you.

At some point you may decide its too emotionally draining for you and unrealistic to suspend your expectation. Cross that bridge when you need to and in the meantime get your friendship back on track, I think it's possible to do that if you can see that what might be holding him back is not personal, it's circumstance.

As you know from your own situation, circumstances will change and he will get to a workable set up at some stage, even if it requires external intervention.

Am guessing that if Totga's ex got wind of you, she might make things even more difficult so that might be another factor at play for Totga.

Might have misunderstood but sounds like you haven't fixed up meeting him yet?

If that's the case, I'd send a message in the morning to say, having slept on it, you're making an executive decision on behalf of you both that for the time being, with everything going on, you're banning any discussion about the other night and you just want to see him to talk about what's happening with him at the moment as it sounds so incredibly shitty and suggest a time/place.

What do you think? Chances are you'll touch on "things" when you meet but this gives you a chance to be Choco, true friend at his low point, not Choco who was in danger of getting pissed off with him for not getting in touch with you after things got hot and steamy.

You're completely justified in being pissed off with him. I think he's been lame in not getting in touch with you more proactively but if it wasn't for what he's going through with his ex and lack of contact with his son, I'd say give him a wide berth and pull right back. But there do seem to be some extenuating circumstances and you'll be able to judge if the chemistry is still possible to retain after you meet up. I also think this is a way for you to protect yourself, take a step back and have more control over how things do develop so you can put the brakes on if things get steamy again and you're not convinced it's on the basis of a mutual interest in a relationship.

In my line of work, I often have to tell people to be more concise in their communication style but seems I need to take my own advice, sorry for marathon post! Hope you're feeling bit better..

DoingItForMyself Thu 11-Apr-13 15:26:06

Well said Cheese, I think he has so much on his plate at the moment that he can't think straight, which is in no way a reflection on you Choco, your worth or his feelings for you. Its not that "he's just not that into you" but rather that he's so 'into' what else is happening in his life that nothing else stands a chance.

Given how recently he moved out, he may be regretting what happened, solely because of the impact it will have on relations between him & ex for getting access sorted. If he sounds regretful don't take it personally.

It doesn't mean he won't want it to happen again or that he won't want more than that, but just that at this point in his life you can't be a priority, which is shitty but I guess that's being a good friend - accept that you're there when he needs you and don't pressure him when he has other things to sort out.

Works both ways of course and I'm sure he will be supportive of you and will welcome some distraction from his problems with tales of your business venture etc! On that point, are you claiming everything you can for being on a low income until you start earning more?

themidwife Thu 11-Apr-13 16:05:00

Agree with everything Doingit says (as usual). Hope you feel a bit better today.

themidwife Thu 11-Apr-13 16:05:28

Oh have name changed (midwife99)

chocoreturns Thu 11-Apr-13 17:13:11

hey all, I agree with you all - cheese thank you for such a thoughtful and helpful post. I know you are right, it's not necessarily a bad decision as a pose to massively bad timing. We have weathered some serious storms before. I am sure we can get through this one. I am a firm believer in trusting that you are where you are meant to be right now. I don't have a global perspective so how can I be sure than things falling apart aren't other things falling together... and every other cheesy platitude I can muster haha. Seriously though, I feel ok about it. I will remember that love is patient, and love is kind.

Speaking of which. Interesting turn of events today. T&T were meant to have the children today, and after 2 hours I was called to collect them because OW was off to hospital in an ambulance. When I arrived 10mins later to collect them, the ambulance still wasn't there (it truly is the arse end of nowhere) As it happened I had my mum with me, because we were spending the day together and she had car seats in her car. She is also a nurse with about 35years experience. I could hear OW crying in pain when twunt met me at the door, so I asked if he wanted my mum to take a look while they waited. He didn't but he asked OW, who definitely did. So I ended up waiting in their house with the children while my mum looked after a very poorly person indeed. Turns out she had a kidney infection and needed IV antibiotics in hospital today.

3 things passed through my mind. Firstly, what a twunt he is for taking the children over when she was so, so ill. She can't have suddenly got that ill in two hours so he must have known she wasn't going to be up to having the kids all day. Empathy override again. I was also pissed in case they had caught something nasty. Mum thought she may even have had meningitis she was in that much pain with a fever of 40+ How can he be such a dick all the time??

Secondly, I am really glad my mum was there, because twunt was as useful as a lemon and OW really needed some help. My mum was the consumate professional - despite detesting the pair of them, a patient is a patient and she was caring and kind. Which reminded me again of my favourite motto. Be kind wherever possible (it is always possible to be kind). I love my parents.

Lastly, I felt really sorry for her. When the ambulance took her out she looked so young and scared. Here she is, feckin miles from bloody anywhere, sick as a parrot and the only people to help her out were ME and my MUM. She must have had one hell of a reality check today. She was crying and saying sorry to me on her way out sad I felt really sad for the whole situation.

Not exactly the way I thought I would get to see the inside of their house or meet her again. Still, man plans and god laughs hey? I suspect it wasn't to twunts plan either. I could see he was massively uncomfortable with needing mums help, but at least he wasn't too proud or mean to accept it. The whole thing has left me feeling a bit philosophical. It's definitely humanised her for me - she is a bit more of a person in my mind now rather than a vile scrap of humanity. I did text to say I hope she gets better soon. Not that twunt will notice that!

BerylStreep Thu 11-Apr-13 17:30:26

Choco, that was a very kind thing to do.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Thu 11-Apr-13 17:39:33

sad i know the pair of them have behaved despicably but this episode shows up twunt for the shite he is.

By total contrast, flowers for your mum - can see where you get your nice nature from.

oh choco, you are so lovely, you and your mum.

And wow, that is one abusive man. I'd always thought of him as a twunt... but he really is something worse, isn't he? You are so well rid, not that I need to tell you that... and thank heavens your lovely boys have YOU as their primary role model and influence.

themidwife Thu 11-Apr-13 18:09:13

Well done Choco - massive karma points earnt there!

It's another reminder that she has been totally manipulated by twunt & although she is by no means blameless HE is the driving force.

skyebluesapphire Thu 11-Apr-13 18:16:46

Well done to your mum and you. Humanity and compassion wins the day.

Poor OW though. Like you say she can't have been up to having the kids today and he probably put pressure on her to do so and she had no choice.

You reap what you sow don't you....

chocoreturns Thu 11-Apr-13 18:24:51

it's just very sad, isn't it. Today I saw a frightened young woman, needing to be looked after. I felt like she was at least a decade younger than me, not 4 and a half years. I know she's had front and been stupidly rude to me before. But when it comes down to it, she's clearly following twunt around making him her world. I can't see it ending well for her sad I can only hope the whole thing has made me and my family a bit more real to her too, so she can see we are not angry or horrible people - we are actually pretty nice.

Reminded me of the old 12 step slogan - failure is always an event, never a person.

themidwife Thu 11-Apr-13 18:31:31

Yeah & once again you & your lovely Mum act like grown ups, put your darling boys first & communicate with (& in this case even help) twunt & ow, despite their bad behaviour. She will realise you are a lovely person & twunt's spin on your character is totally wrong.

bamboozled Thu 11-Apr-13 19:39:12

Wow, hats off to you and your mum!
Do tell her we MNers think she is a legend - and obviously passed her genes onto her daughter!

Doha Thu 11-Apr-13 19:51:57

Utmost respect to both you and your mum choco..i wish l could say that as a nurse l would have acted the same way--unfortunately l don't think l could be that bigger person.
Well done, l hope in some way this event make a positive change in the relationship between T&T and yourself, even if it is only a wee one

cheeseandpineapple Thu 11-Apr-13 21:41:58

It is sad but unsurprising. If she hasn't already, she's learning what goes around, comes around and she's lumbered herself and changed her life for a complete jerk.

Hope it is a turning point Choco but she might feel embarrassed and more awkward as a result so don't expect too much from her. At least you know, even when things are tough for you, you'd never want to be in her shoes..

themidwife Fri 12-Apr-13 08:09:12

Quite right cheese. I agree she will be embarrassed & ashamed & therefore prickly. But deep down she is beginning to see ......

AgathaF Fri 12-Apr-13 08:31:13

Lovely of you and your Mum to help,in the circumstances. Must have given OW something to consider and think about. The man is such a twat.

chezziejo Fri 12-Apr-13 08:59:02

Your compassion and your mums is amazing Choco. You make me feel quite humble. I know she's no saint but at this time she will be incredibly ill if it is a kidney infection and needs IV antibiotics. I hope she's how lovely you are and makes her realise a few things. I sort of have this inkling she may start giving you the odd text asking if twunt did this that or the other. I may be talking a load of arseholes but I do just wonder. Hope the clear the air thing goes well with TOTGA. I still think time and your amazing ness will win through there.

BerylStreep Fri 12-Apr-13 11:35:51

Choco, you know, I was thinking about this yesterday. I know you felt really uncomfortable about T&T moving close to you, but in a way it was good that you were nearby and could collect the boys. Imagine if this had happened when they were a few hours drive away.

I seem to recall that Twunt is a nurse? Have I got that wrong? Seems strange that he wasn't able to spot that she was seriously ill earlier.

BTW, what was their house like? <nosey>

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Fri 12-Apr-13 12:06:00

It might not mean she openly gets on with you better in future but her willingness to ensure the boys are well looked after and have a good time (not saying she's been anything but amiable with your DCs) could be amplified.

chocoreturns Sat 13-Apr-13 12:56:11

I am having an emotional hangover. Feel like crap today. Their house inside is ok, it's small, and very 'twunt'. They have my dining table that I chose and bought for our flat confused. It's full of his stuff, nothing at all that really looked like hers, or even new. All the books on the shelves are his for example. As long as it stays that way he'll be delighted. It has a corrugated iron roof (I am serious). Not somewhere I would want to live. On the plus side, it has a huge and rather beautiful garden that the children will adore in summer. So they will be happy. The kids bedroom has been done out nicely with lots of toys and stuff, nothing to worry about there, which is nice to know. I didn't really nose around to be honest, felt really odd being there at all sad

I am suddenly feeling incredibly crap about TOTGA. I think it is probably a combination of feeling like shit from the whole twunt/OW episode. Plus exhaustion. But mostly it's the realisation that the first guy I trusted to get that close to since my marriage ended (since I conceived DS2 tbh) has decided not to call/acknowledge or express any kind of concern for me at all. I know he's having a hard time, but that is shit behaviour and I'm angry, hurt and upset. I don't really want to talk to him now and that makes me sad. When he replied to my message saying I thought maybe our friendship was screwed, he said don't be daft you haven't done anything to screw it up. Err, no. YOU HAVE.

Feel like tearing a strip off him.

Probably best if I don't though, hey? sad

AgathaF Sat 13-Apr-13 13:07:09

Oh, I'm sorry you're having such a bad day. I guess it's not surprising really, given all that has happened in the last few weeks. It all had to come to an emotional head at some point.

Corrugated iron roof? Gosh.

I wouldn't say anything to TOTGA just yet. You're probably feeling worse about him because of the other Twunt/OW stuff. In a week or two you might feel differently about the TOTGA situation, but if you've already had it out with him, it might then be too late to retrieve anything.

FWIW I think that he is not as far down the road as you are, with regard to his split from his wife, so in some ways it is understandable that he is acting in the way he is. That's not to excuse his bad behaviour, but just that maybe his brain is not recognising the significance of things yet, or processing his actions/reactions in quite the right way yet, because it's just to soon for him.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Sat 13-Apr-13 13:39:15

I reckon he is, as Agatha suggests, still processing his own current life. From where he stands you and your situation is leagues ahead of his. I will say what I said earlier, he probably doesn't want to burden you with his crap right now. Sharing stuff can help and he knows you won't be judgmental or trying to boss him but for now he is still coping. Unfortunately to the extent that he possibly doesn't recognise you could do with some input too. There might be some complacency there because you two have known each other so long but I don't think he's deliberately being selfish or dense.

Obviously I can spout all this because I don't know him from Adam but you do and if this is all wrong just ignore it.

BerylStreep Sat 13-Apr-13 18:21:45

Choco, perhaps being a friend means giving him the space he needs at the moment?

Don't burn any bridges.

chocoreturns Sat 13-Apr-13 18:50:13

I'm not going to, don't worry. And I'm not crowding in on him either. I am just feeling fed up sad

I am fuming with twunt. I called to let him know DS1 has had a high temp all day (39.2). No doubt linked to being around t&t given they have both been ill recently, but nothing I can say or do about that angry. Anyway I told him, and after I hung up he immediately text and offered to have the boys tomorrow so I could rest hmm ignoring the fact that they probably got ill because of him. I have declined but politely, and thanked him for the offer. Then enquired whether OW was on the mend? (reflex manners kicking in rather than a genuine desire to know, but there you go) and the twunt hasn't replied. He knows it'll piss me off to be ignored when I've gone beyond the point of being polite.

WHY do I let it bother me??

Fucks sake.

I am fed up to the back teeth of being the nicer person today. That is all.

chocoreturns Sat 13-Apr-13 18:50:59

re TOTGA all I can do is sigh and have a bit of a grump about it... but thanks for the support xx

themidwife Sat 13-Apr-13 21:12:27

You don't always have to be the nicer person when it's just between you & twunt & it doesn't affect anyone else. Feel free to ignore him too when you feel like it. His "offer" is just to make him seem nice when he's NOT!!!

chocoreturns Sat 13-Apr-13 21:16:50

grin thanks midwife

I'll try to ignore more.

Have had a good old creative vent tonight. I feel better x

bamboozled Sat 13-Apr-13 22:45:59


laffaminute Sun 14-Apr-13 03:34:46

I've followed your threads and think you are an amazing, lovely person.

Please have a think about why you are attracted to men who are not capable of putting you first.

TOTGA only gets in touch when he's having a hard time with his ex and all discussions seem to be about what's best for him. Has he asked you about what you want?

You are so good at putting your DSs first but please don't think it has to be like that with men too.

Sorry, I'm not very articulate when typing. I hope it all goes well for you.

saffronwblue Sun 14-Apr-13 04:55:15

Wow choco, what a lot has been happening. Timing just all sounds wrong with TOTGA. He is no doubt in that space where all he can think about is himself and his pain and has very little to give you. You deserve so much more.

You and your mum are amazing, extending compassionate humanity to OW. This may all get twisted or reinterpreted along the way but at some point it will start to help widen a chink in her understanding of events. She does sound very immature and combined with Twunt's self centredness this does not bode well for them. Karma will work its magic.

Hope DS 1 is feeling better soon.

getthegirladrink Sun 14-Apr-13 13:47:36

brew wine flowers

chocoreturns Sun 14-Apr-13 15:50:59

laffaminute I am starting to think you have hit the nail on the head there. I am not getting it right, that's for sure. I am quite willing to have a look at it and try and make some better choices, but I'm not quite sure where to start. I have had counselling in the past and didn't really enjoy it, so I may have to think about something more forwards facing and positive to get me thinking about (and expecting) the best in life, including a giving, caring, loyal, sexy, respectful and trustworthy man.

I don't want another taker that's for sure. I don't think TOTGA is necessarily a twunt, but I don't think I can say hand on heart I would spot one either.

thanks for the flowers, brew and wine smile

themidwife Sun 14-Apr-13 17:16:13

Yeah I agree TOTGA isn't necessarily a twunt but his feelings & problems are MORE IMPORTANT than yours aren't they? And he isn't pregnant while his partner cheats or bringing up 2 tiny boys alone is he?

It's hard for us to learn that we deserve 100% good treatment from others & to expect it 100% isn't it?

laffaminute Sun 14-Apr-13 23:17:32


Possibly Cognitive Behavioural Therapy could be worth a try? I found it didn't dwell on the past but helped me identify and change ingrained thoughts and behaviours.

themidwife Mon 15-Apr-13 00:35:29

Yes good idea - I've often wondered if the endless talking about it all really makes a huge difference? CBT gets straight to the nitty gritty I hear?

laffaminute Mon 15-Apr-13 02:03:58

Yes, midwife, certainly was like that in my case. There was a short discussion about the past but only to establish why I felt and behaved the way I did.

Might be worth checking it out choco to see if you think it could help.

I bloody love CBT - I'm a 'coper' and of course when things are actually slightly too much to cope with copers tend to collapse in on themselves with self hatred for not coping, rather than getting help. CBT worked for me because it's strategies for more coping, and for understanding why I felt I had to cope, and what might happen if I didn't.

Actually thinking through all the things I'd erected mental walls around so I never went there.... was scary but amazingly liberated. I kept saying "well if that actually happened it would be terrible, I would totally .... be alright, really, I suppose." grin

chezziejo Wed 24-Apr-13 00:52:33

Hi choco how's things with you?

chocoreturns Wed 24-Apr-13 09:12:26

hey chezzie

ok thanks, TOTGA still hasn't been in touch. So deleting his number was the right thing to do, I am feeling ok about it now - his loss really. Sadly I don't think from my p.o.v the friendship will ever really recover after this, I am a bit too pissed off with him to actually want it to.

T&T are being their usual frustrating selves. There have been some v. nasty emails from twunt lately because I won't agree to him just dropping in on the kids on his days off, and he won't do anything about seeing them regularly more often. Apparently I am being very selfish yada yada. And now, due to my 'inflexibility' he can suddenly no longer commit to seeing them on the 4 days a month he currently has e.o.w.

MIL looked after the boys for me yesterday as I needed to work and they've been poorly for a couple of weeks, I walked past OW in the street and mentioned it to MIL in a 'oh well I knew it would happen now they are here' kind of way (also v suspicious that MIL had invited the two of them to come see the boys on my patch - possibly even in my house - when she had them all day so I was just seeing what my toddler would say when I mentioned them. I know, sneaky, but you do what you gotta do!). Anyway, I got a text from MIL in the evening saying 'OW never left the house today, so some other poor girl must think you are v weird' WTAF? Why would anyone (including OW) think I'm 'weird' for walking past her? Do they all think I spend my life saving up evil stares for them both? Have ignored but it's riled me. Esp after looking after her the other week. KNOBBERS

It cheers me up no end however, to know that T&T both work in the same hospital as my mum now, in the same dept (same room) which is deeply uncomfortable for them all. However mum has managed to alleviate the situation by letting her friends and colleagues know the reason for her feeling so uncomfortable grin and asking not to work directly with them. No squeaky clean new start for them their then.

They have since taken a full week off work together due to 'd&v' that they apparently caught from DS2. Pfft. Well, both of them swanning off in the sunshine on their second week of work is not going to cover them in glory. I do wonder whether twunt mentioned it to his girlfriend that they were applying for jobs in my mums dept? where she has worked for 25 years? Must have been an interesting welcome for OW when she did her first day and discovered her reputation precedes her.

As it happens, I think twunt is so self orientated that he actually erased it from his memory that she would be there. Reality bites huh?

Am keeping on keeping on.

Thanks for checking in on me x

skyebluesapphire Wed 24-Apr-13 10:49:46

Blimey, that must be very uncomfortable for T&T working with your mum. What a shame for them grin

and what an odd thing for MIL to say hmm confused . What on earth did she think that you did to the girl?

Why do these twunts have to get so awkward over access and everything? The fact that you don't want them dropping in during the week shouldnt change the EOW access should it?! At the end of the day, its him who will lose out, if he doesnt have regular access. The boys will make their own decision over time. You are within your rights to not want him to just drop in randomly and to commit to a set day/time.

chocoreturns Wed 24-Apr-13 11:04:57

thanks Skye, I know, it's so ridiculous isn't it? It's like he's trying to punish me for not letting him waltz in and out, by seeing them even less than the paltry 4 days a month he already does. I feel sad about it, but I'm not giving ground on this one. As soon as I say 'sure, we'll do it your way' I will be back to square one doormatsville.

I have to confess to taking a bit of guilty pleasure in mum reporting that his face dropped like a stone when he arrived on his first day at work to be greeted by her grin honestly, you couldn't make it up.

chocoreturns Wed 24-Apr-13 11:07:14

re: MIL god knows what she thinks I did.

I just have to remember that twunt got the way he is for a reason, and obviously what his family imagine is 'normal' behaviour is far, far from what I do. Maybe 'normal' to them would be shooting evils and spitting on her shoe as she walked past. Whereas me being normal means noticing her on the street and thinking, 'Oh, that's OW. That feels funny. Never mind, as you were'.


saffronwblue Wed 24-Apr-13 11:59:38

So T and T have arrived to start shiny new jobs and everyone there knows they are pond scum. Great.

getthegirladrink Wed 24-Apr-13 14:28:37

Ugh for your Mum, having to work with those two slimy self obsessed selfish fuckwits fine specimens of humankind hmm
But ha ha ha ha ha cubed grin to think that all of their colleagues know why the atmosphere is a bit thick with discomfort.
He is such a Twunt, isn't he? I wonder if it's actually 2 by 4 holding his ears apart?

Doha Wed 24-Apr-13 14:53:55

Bet T+T will be looking for news jobs very soon smile, although with their very recent new start and sickness record might not be easy..

Doha Wed 24-Apr-13 14:57:16

Did you ask you MIL why the other person would think you wierd??? I think now that T&T are so very close to you now you will need to be a bit more wary of your MIL behaviour. She may very well enable contact with your DS's that you will not be aware of.

chezziejo Wed 24-Apr-13 16:47:13

Aww sorry about TOTGA but it seems like you know how you feel and what's best for you so balls to him.
I can't help bit have a little smirk about what your mum. Not that it's pleasant for her to be working with them but fantastic that she has made them all aware of what a pair of knobbers they are. A week off with D n V wouldn't go down very well in our trust, especially when it was known that they are together and what they have done.
As for MIL well i know it's good to have an outlet for babysitting but does she have to have them on her own?

BerylStreep Wed 24-Apr-13 18:07:41

How is work going?

AgathaF Wed 24-Apr-13 18:55:17

Oh, loving that their brand new jobs come laden with their bad reputation beforehand. Serves them bloody well right. Sorry for your mum though, but hopefully it won't impact on her very much at all.

Skiving off work together - ho hum. Stupid move in a new job. To be expected I suppose.

Shame about TOTGA, but glad that you are ok about it now.

Chucksteak Wed 24-Apr-13 23:25:41

De-lurking Choco just to say how much I admire you and how much I love how your Mum has ruined the bright and shiny new start for T&T! Wahaaaa!! Karma will always come back to bite them in the bum!!

Mmmnotsure Fri 26-Apr-13 10:49:38

He is such a Twunt, isn't he? I wonder if it's actually 2 by 4 holding his ears apart?

grin getthegirl

BerylStreep Fri 26-Apr-13 15:35:53

Yes, I must admit I wouldn't be too impressed by your MIL - she obviously phoned and asked if Turtle had walked past you. Why? For heavens sake, why? And why even bother, after doing that, to report back to you?


And even more confused why can twunt not commit to seeing his DC 4 days a month because you are being 'inflexible' about not wanting him landing in whenever it pleases? Sounds like he is trying to punish you for not jumping to his every whim. angry

Anyhow, it is wine o'clock soon enough, and it's the weekend!

chocoreturns Sat 27-Apr-13 20:10:50

I didn't ask MIL what she was on about, I decided best leave well alone and never discuss anything with her, ever again as it's just not worth the effort. She has very clearly joined the we <3 OW camp these days so it's not worth my energy thinking about it.

Beryl I thought exactly the same, he's trying to punish me by seeing them less. Which is just typical and utterly shite of him.

Work is going good thanks - would be a lot better if I got a smidge more sleep!! But I'm doing ok, and offcially self employed so can't be all bad. If anyone needs a life coach, please get in touch shameless self promotion hehe I'm off to a national conference for care leavers to talk about it in June. Hurrah!

BerylStreep Sun 28-Apr-13 15:43:30

Glad to hear your work thing is up and started.

I had a coaching session through work a few weeks ago, and it was really good. So I don't need a coach at the moment, but can thoroughly recommend it for anyone who has never tried it.

Choco, I did my coaching session online using Skype. I was a bit hmm about the idea at first, but got used to it quite quickly. Don't know if you are doing your sessions face to face or online, but perhaps a way of being able to reach more people?

chocoreturns Sun 28-Apr-13 18:06:32

I do all my sessions by phone or skype so I can work from home around the children smile it's really popular! No travel or costs for anyone involved, and I can work around evenings/weekends/lunchbreaks which really helps clients fit it in. I love it! I'm glad you enjoyed your session - obviously I'm a convert, it's always lovely to hear it's worked well for someone else.

TOTGA finally got in touch. We may have coffee on Weds, he sounds completely done in. Not sure what that particular conversation will be like, but I'm keeping an open mind. I'd really like to get the friendship back on track.

I emailed twunt about him starting to have the kids overnight... on friday. Still no reply! I'm so tired, I am feeling much more open to the idea these days. Plus, DS2 is 10months now (can you believe it?? Where did that time go??) and I feel much less anxious about him staying more than a few hours away.

BerylStreep Mon 29-Apr-13 15:43:11

I'm really glad to hear you may be meeting up with TOTGA.

It would be lovely if you could maintain your friendship given you have known each other for so long, and there is obviously a frisson & affection between you. I know he acted like a scared rabbit in the headlights, but I think you should cut him some slack, if you can. From your description of him, he sounds like a really decent bloke, who has too much going on at the minute to contemplate developing things and could do with some improvement around his communication skills.

An overnight for the DC when T&T are nearby sounds much more doable, than if they were a few hours drive away. I know it was all discussed on the last thread that people get hacked off being told to enjoy their child-free time when DC are with the ex, but it is an opportunity for you to rest and catch up on doing your own thing.

chezziejo Mon 29-Apr-13 20:39:33

Hope it all goes well for you on Wed Choco. TOTGA is bloody lucky to have a mate like you. You can make your mind up after Wed about him but I think he's just probably got a lot on, not that it excuses some of his behaviour but I can at least understand it at this point. Have the twuntleton's emailed back yet? It's probably pissed right on their fire having kids overnight grin hope the kids cope ok with it all tho when it does happen. I know they are amazingly adaptable little things tho.

skyebluesapphire Tue 30-Apr-13 10:51:35

twuntmail seems to take a lot longer to get through than normal email. my twunt takes three weeks to reply to something that I assume has already been sorted. (Dolly out of the pram because I wouldn't have DD back on his night, so that he could go out with his "friend" for her birthday. Because I was already going out and my mum was going out, I was being "awkward and difficult" that I wouldnt have her back for the night confused.

I miss DD like hell when she is with him, but it is a routine that I know now. I do enjoy having a lie in when she is with him and I enjoy a night out too.

Like you say, it will give you a break and they are nearby too now which helps. Once you get into a set routine with it, then you will all know where you stand.

Dozer Tue 30-Apr-13 17:34:59

Hi choco. Hope your coffee goes ok tomorrow.

I'm not normally kind-hearted or excuse-making about men behaving badly, but do feel sorry for TOTGA, know he hasn't been great recently, but think you said that his ex was witholding access to his DC, which must be really awful and all-consuming. He might also be scared that if his ex got wind of him entering a new relationship she could make things even more difficult for him, and not want to risk it.

That's not to say you should support him, you have a lot on your own plate! Not ideal to be in a counselling-type role if you have feelings for him, plus it'd be draining and you need all your energy! But maybe you could have a more distant friendship, and just see what happens in the future.

Yay for your mum!

chezziejo Wed 01-May-13 11:43:09

Just off to work now but hoping coffee goes well today Choco.

skyebluesapphire Wed 01-May-13 11:58:11

Hiya! Another one adding that I hope the coffee and chat goes well today and that you can salvage something from it.

chocoreturns Wed 01-May-13 14:51:46

he cancelled...


it's not looking good!

chocoreturns Wed 01-May-13 14:52:09

thank you for all the good luck wishes though x sad

getthegirladrink Wed 01-May-13 15:03:33

Is it too early to offer you wine?

themidwife Wed 01-May-13 15:08:38

Oh fuck him honey! His stuff is more important than yours obviously!

Onwards & upwards with more deserving men!!

chocoreturns Wed 01-May-13 15:59:10


I am ok, I have far too much on with work right now to worry about it. What will be will be etc. I'm going to do something really nice for myself this week and just be positive. Might go and get my nails done or something smile

Here's to finding the one who makes me a priority! <goes off to write cosmic order immediately>

skyebluesapphire Wed 01-May-13 16:02:54

sod him then. who needs a friend like that anyway?!

BerylStreep Wed 01-May-13 16:03:10

Oh dear.

AgathaF Wed 01-May-13 16:56:08

That's a shame, but if his life is so complicated and unstable at the moment, then it's probably not the right time for you anyway.

Glad you're ok.

saffronwblue Thu 02-May-13 03:35:53

You know, I don't think he is the one that got away, I think he is the one who does not have enough to give you.

chocoreturns Thu 02-May-13 08:31:35

I think you're right saffron the longer it goes between what happened and him not being in touch, the more I am realising that the idea of being with him may have been better than anything reality could offer. Yesterday I went out with a really lovely friend for lunch for her birthday, and we talked about the book - feel the fear and do it anyway, we were talking about taking charge of our lives really. I have been thinking about what that means wrt men, and I know that for my own sake I need to be willing to say no, that's not good enough, to any guy who doesn't respect me enough. It's not that they will all be bastards (and I still don't think TOTGA is, really) but that's not the point. If I don't raise the bar, even the reasonable guys will walk all over me. So I am raising it, and I am going to trust that someone awesome will be around the corner! I'm definitely not going to meet anyone awesome if I give all my attention to people who have nothing to give back though, am I?

Today DS1 has a trial at a preschool, we're getting ready to go and visit... I am so glad my life is extremely busy, it gives me next to no time to wallow! I would very much like a house elf to come and give me a hand... failing that, is chocolate an acceptable breakfast? grin

AgathaF Thu 02-May-13 09:08:52

Chocolate makes an excellent occasional breakfast grin.

Enjoy your day.

DoingItForMyself Thu 02-May-13 14:48:44

Choco, I agree that the idea of TOTGA was probably more appealing than the reality - it seemed so simple, tying up loose ends, resolving something left unfinished, not having to go through the hassle (and embarrassment!) of dating new unsuitable men etc.

Whereas the reality is that he is now someone with a huge amount of newly acquired baggage, which he had no qualms about dumping on you, who took what was on offer and then didn't have the decency to realise how much that changed things for you.

I'm not saying that he would never have been right for you, but not right now. The worry is that you will move on, meet someone new and he will get his shit together and come crawling back in a year's time, just as you have put him firmly out of your mind!

Let's hope that by then you will be so awesomely successful in your business and so happy in your personal life that you will see him for what he is, not what you always dreamed he would be.

chezziejo Thu 02-May-13 21:43:52

Awww no sad did he give any decent reason as to why he cancelled? Just trying to really generous and give him benefit if doubt but its wearing a bit thin for you I know.
Did you keep in touch with the other nice guy? Gawd I'm a nosy cow arnt I . I'm am notoriously shit at advice but would it be worth putting everything into an email and actually spelling it out to him how it's made you feel. I know he's got a lot on but it might be the swift kick up the arse that bucks his ideas up. I know that you know him well but men sometimes are bloody oblivious to the obvious.

laffaminute Fri 03-May-13 06:12:56


SO pleased to read your last post. You've thought things through. That's the right attitude.

Hope you had a lovely breakfast grin

chezziejo Sun 12-May-13 21:42:35

Hi Choco how's things?

BerylStreep Tue 14-May-13 21:14:02

Yeah Choco, how's it going?

BerylStreep Wed 29-May-13 16:59:22

Hey everyone, this thread has gone very quiet. Choco, am I right in thinking that the baby is very nearly 1 year old? Where has the time gone?

Anyway, my beautiful Burmese kitten has gone missing - the nail varnish smashing one, so I am a bit worried about her. She didn't come in last night, wasn't around at breakfast, and still hasn't turned up.

Hope everyone is well.

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