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I don't no how to fix us anymore :(

(257 Posts)
Twinkletwinklestars Tue 26-Mar-13 21:45:25

Here goes....

I'm probably hard to live with at times, two children in two years has worn me down a bit.
I don't have much time to give him (husband) more attention that he asks for.
I make him angry because I'm not earning money as on maternity leave besides he says I can't go back to work unless I work nights. He finds the children hard work. He is very stressed due to money.
I can't seem to keep on top of the housework very well these days. Having his t ready on time is getting harder too.
He shouts lots tells me daily that I can't do anything right, I'm an fkin idot,thick and I should not talk. I think I've just let things get really bad, he's really scared me a few times so I normally pop my head down and get on. Sometimes I shout back but I'm never right.
Then there's lovely normal times where the amazing calm man I married is. He's a good dad, nice person and gets on with ppl.
I don't no how to fix us any ideas?

Lueji Tue 26-Mar-13 21:59:08

Sure, you tell him to get the fuck out and put down another poor woman.

He's not nice and not a good dad. sad

MadBraLady Tue 26-Mar-13 22:01:05

Twinkle, he doesn't sound like a nice person at all. I'm not surprised you're struggling to get by if he shouts at you and tells you you're thick and shouldn't talk every day. How would anyone be able to get back into their groove with the partner who's supposed to love them constantly taking them down?

What are the consequences of you not having tea ready on time? And why if his priority is you getting back to work has he imposed this weird condition that you can only apply to work nights?

You can't "fix" the relationship if the fundamental problem is that's he horrible.

Lueji Tue 26-Mar-13 22:03:07

How exactly has he scared you?

Mumsyblouse Tue 26-Mar-13 22:05:24

He is scary, shouty and abusive. No wonder you don't know what to do. He doesn't sound nice at all, and a nice dad wouldn't do that daily to the mother of his children- I bet they hear all the shouting.

Have you got a friend you can confide in in real-life, or a family member? I would be looking to get out of this situation, he sounds scary and you sound ground-down. Hopefully some other posters will be along in a minute with some more practical advice on how to do this.

HotCrossPun Tue 26-Mar-13 22:14:57

He sounds like an emotional head-fuck.

He's not a good dad if he is shouting and frightening the mother of his children.

You deserve so much better than this, OP.

izzyizin Tue 26-Mar-13 22:31:00

Having his tea ready on time is getting harder too Omigod angry
Why can't he get his own tea 'on time' and make yours too?

He shouts lots tells me daily that I can't do anything right, I'm an fkin idot,thick and I should not talk Take him at his word. Don't do a thing and you won't be able to get it wrong, will you? And if you don't talk he won't be able to find fault with what you say. But, needless to say, that won't suit him either.

He's a not good dad, he's not a nice person and he only gets on with people who don't have the misfortune to live with him.

What ARE you doing allowing this abusive piece of gobshite to dictate terms and force you and your dc to listen to his rants on a daily basis?

Please give Women's Aid a call and the next time he kicks off, call the police and have him removed from your home - it might just give him the incentive he sorely needs to clean up his act and get it together to become a caring and responsible parent and a loving h.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 27-Mar-13 05:30:56

He's not a nice person, he's a bully that's making you feel miserable. Of course he gets on with other people. Bullies never pick on people who might fight back. Anyone can be an 'amazing calm man' when there are no challenges and they are getting all their own way. Decent men don't shout, scream, scare the crap out their partners and make them feel like rubbish. Abuse often only appears after the arrival of the first child.... they know you're vulnerable, have fewer options, and they exploit it.

Don't make excuses for him and please don't think you've brought this on yourself. He sounds like a nasty piece of work and, if he has such a low opinion of you, tell him to leave and find someone more to his liking. Then get yourself to a solicitor and sever this evil man from your life

You and your children do not deserve to be treated this way. You cannot fix a bully... but you can refuse to accept it any more.

Twinkletwinklestars Wed 27-Mar-13 06:27:12

Thanks for the response I was unsure our relationship was normal anymore.

Madbralady basically I can only work if he does not have to look after our children. He will have our 2yr old but not our baby. I think he's setting me up for a fall. Won't let me work yet it's my fault he has to pay the bills.
If his t isn't ready & house work not up to his standard then he gets a bit angry. He doesn't expect that sort of shit when he's been working hard all day. Then it starts to build up and up, then explode. Depends on how I react to which way it goes. Sometimes he gets really drunk (big problem) sometimes he packs his bags & leaves. Sometimes it's just lots of shouting and banging.
It's hard one I ran the car batt flat at Xmas, he went crazy at me. Slammed my leg in the car door really shouting took my son off. Hated him for that locked me in the car with the baby. It was dark which didn't help I couldn't see where he went. He locked me and the baby in car was scared to move because of alarm.
He knows that there is a level that he shouts at me then I stop, retreat & do whatever he wants. Writing this now I realise there is so much that's not right. X

You have become ground down by your abusive H who is neither a good dad to your children and a good H to you.

You cannot fix something that cannot be fixed; also you cannot continue to try and paper over the ever widening cracks. You cannot fix an abusive relationship.

Do contact Womens Aid; they can and will help you here. This is no life for either you or your children to be witness to.

MummyNoName Wed 27-Mar-13 06:44:33

I think you need to leave.
Your last post is v concerning.

Can you go to your parents or a friends and get some rl help and support?

How old is baby?

Twinkletwinklestars Wed 27-Mar-13 06:53:50

I spend most of my time confused.
Sometimes he's lovely picks up bread at the shop on his way home. Really kind helps out with our son & takes him out at the weekend.
Other times he's shouting at me to shut up sometimes my son copies hmm
It's when I can't work out what I e done that I get really upset.
I'm meeting a lady from wa this week long story short had a sw round as there had been a report Of dv.
Guess I'm just trying to suss out if others live like this & if its normal.
He doesn't beat me just little things have happened pushing, small kicks & pinching That's easier then the words at times. He said all women are scared of there husbands they just don't talk about it.
And I love him we have been together most my life. Chessey I no. I want him to change for our children. I don't want to leave just yet I need to no I've done everything to try & fix us. I ow it to our children x

mummytime Wed 27-Mar-13 06:55:57

When he is out try phoning 101 and talk to the police! This isn't even subtle abuse it is already physical: slamming your leg in the car door.

Have you told your HV anything about this? Do tell people.

Women's aid will also help you. Do something now, please. It will be especially risky this weekend as it is a bank holiday. So please, please reach out first.

The only way to fix this would be to leave.

You do know you are not responsible for 'fixing' a relationshi that is never going to work right?

He sounds horrible.

MummyNoName Wed 27-Mar-13 06:58:08

Gets brad on the way home?
Plays with your son?
That's not being nice twinkle, that's the bare minimum I would expect from a dh and father.
It is NOT normal for a wife to be afraid of her dh. Your dh knows this as he doesn't hurt you in public.

You may want things to change, but from what you've said he sounds dangerous. Please get help from wa this week. I can tell you now if my dh did any of the things you listed he'd have a left a long time ago. It isn't normal.

tribpot Wed 27-Mar-13 06:58:53

He said all women are scared of there husbands they just don't talk about it.

Jesus Christ. Please believe me that this is completely untrue.

The abuse he's putting you through is just as bad as outright beating. Please take the help of the SW and WA.

Oh Twinkle, I just read your last post.

I feel really sorry for you. You need to find the strength to leave this horrible man sad

It is not normal, and most women are not afraid of their Husbands!

You deserve more than this. Hope WA help you to leave soon.

mummytime Wed 27-Mar-13 06:59:44

I am not scared of my husband! That is not normal. My husband would be horrified if he thought I (or the children) were scared of him.
And I am a SAHM.

Buying bread does not make him a nice person.

He is utterly vile and abusing you quite seriously.

Please tell WA all of this and let them help you.

The only way to fix this is to leave.

FlatCapAndAWhippet Wed 27-Mar-13 07:03:29

Twinkle, I dont normally post on the relationship threads, I tend to take a back seat but I can't sit here and say nothing.

You are in an incredibly abusive marriage / relationship, you have to do something about it. I know it seems like a mountain to climb with the responsibility of young children but things will only get worse. sad

MummyNoName Wed 27-Mar-13 07:03:40

Twinkle, on mn sometimes men are being twats, posters are very quick to say 'leave him'.

This is one if the few times you really NEED to leave. You're in danger. You're dc could be in danger. Could you stop him if he turns on your ds or baby (who he hasn't bonded with)?

Seriously twinkle. You need to leave.

If someone was worried enough about you and your DC suffering abuse to report it, then there is a problem. Someone else recognised that you are abused. Perhaps you should look at his behaviour again. Read your own posts and ask yourself if it was a friend/sister/stranger what advice would you give? What would you think?

Aside from his abuse, he is an atrocious father- he will only look after one of his DC? And only at his leisure? What a prick!

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 27-Mar-13 07:38:49

"Guess I'm just trying to suss out if others live like this & if its normal."

Others do live like this, sadly, but it's neither normal nor acceptable. The fact that you're not sure any more is testament to the fact that he has bullied you into confusion. The fact that someone reported DV must mean things are very bad. Hope the WomensAid person can help you to get properly shot of this horrible man.

toffeelolly Wed 27-Mar-13 07:46:42

Get out now, he sound's like one evil fucker . If not for yourself do it for your children.

Lueji Wed 27-Mar-13 08:06:41

Be very aware of this: you can't change him.
He has to want to change.

The only thing you owe your children is a life free of abuse, even if it was "only" witnessing it.
A life with true love at home.

Please make full use of the WA meeting and ask her for help.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 27-Mar-13 08:07:23

" I don't want to leave just yet I need to no I've done everything to try & fix us. I ow it to our children x"

You can't fix what you didn't break. The more you try, the more he treats you with utter contempt. His foul temper and abusive behaviour is clearly something he saves just for you. This is the man that promised to love, cherish and honour you when you got married..... hmm Aside from anything else, that makes him a liar.

If you owe your children anything, it's to live in a house where Mum is not treated like some underling that can be kicked, pushed about and screamed at. Get yourself & your children safe and away from him.

You owe it to NO ONE.

You owe it to your children to get out of an abusive relationship asap.

I'm sorry this is happening to you but the longer the stay the less likely you are to leave.

You're only going to feel worse, as he's an emotional bully & it's already quite bad. You even acknowledge that he puts you down.

He doesn't deserve an tenth of you...

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 27-Mar-13 08:35:10

Emotional bully but also physically and verbally abusive... Slamming a car door on someone's leg? shock

Twinkletwinklestars Wed 27-Mar-13 08:47:26

Feeling very overwhelmed maybe a bit shocked by the responses. I think I bring on some of the shouting by arguing back & not getting things right. He says I make him lose his temper with me. Because I pick at him ask him to help out. It's not all his fault.
He was never that type of guy, I want him to be the man he use to b all those years ago. He really changed when I had our son think he got jealous a bit. I don't think I help him much emotionally as my time is taken up with the children mostly. Also he likes ne to be quiet and to watch his programmes go on computer when the children go to bed. We prob talk for 10min b4 he wants to go to sleep. I really want us to b happy again. He's changed a lot these last couple of wks as he knows I'm talking to someone. My son adores him and when he leaves us it causes him so much upset. Lots of tears & cuddles constant questions of when is he coming back. I think it would be to upsetting for my son if we separated. hmm

Twinkletwinklestars Wed 27-Mar-13 08:52:05

Also I have pnd after my son was born. He found this hard to cope with and also reminds me sometimes that its my depression that's made me different too

Twinkletwinklestars Wed 27-Mar-13 08:54:17

I love my children there my whole world. I would never put them in any danger. I don't think he would ever hurt them. If he did I would b gone in a flash.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 27-Mar-13 08:57:55

"He says I make him lose his temper with me. Because I pick at him ask him to help out. It's not all his fault. "

Oh dear. They all say that. 'If you weren't such a nag, I wouldn't have pushed you into the door...' It's pathetic.

As for never being the type. Abuse, as I think I said before, often only starts to be apparent with the arrival of the first baby. Up to then, let's face it, you're usually in the romantic early days, your full attention is on him and he doesn't have to be nasty to get his own way.

This man is selfish and abusive. He's only happy when everyone's tiptoeing on eggshells. And as for your son 'adoring' his Dad... really?.... you'd be very surprised to learn that even small children pick up on abuse and make an extra effort to keep the abusive parent sweet as a result.

I'll tell you a story. A friend of mine grew up with an abusive father. His mother suffered terribly and my friend spent his childhood upset and angry knowing he was too young and too small to protect her. My friend got to 15 and by now he was a tall, strong young man. Threw his father through a glass door....

Please talk to the Womens Aid people. This shouldn't be happening to you.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 27-Mar-13 09:00:48

"I don't think he would ever hurt them. If he did I would b gone in a flash."

But it's OK for him to hurt you? Listen to yourself. You know he's a violent man, he's aggressive, he pushes you around and he has injured you. It's appalling behaviour. Why does it have to get just a bit worse ... and a bit worse.... and a bit worse.... before you take it seriously? Why does he have to hit the kids before you go?

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 27-Mar-13 09:02:42

"lso I have pnd after my son was born. He found this hard to cope with "

You're married, right? Remember that bit about 'in sickness and in health'? Did you get sick deliberately just to spite him?..... Thought not. Again, some people find it hard to cope with a partner with depression. Decent people seek advice, help, support, treatment for their partner. SELFISH BULLIES go on the attack.

showtunesgirl Wed 27-Mar-13 09:10:24

OP, please read back what you have written.

A relationship should be a two way street. At the moment, it seems to be all about you making HIM happy and treading on eggshells. This is no way for you our your children to live.

issypiggle Wed 27-Mar-13 09:11:19

get out with dc, stay at friends/family and leave. he is abusive and vile. you should not be treated that way.

go see WA or CAB, but get out. he needs help but you need to get help for yourself and dc first.

do you want ds to copy what your dh is doing when he has gf/dw??

get out and stay out, you're stronger than him and you know inside that it's wrong, otherwise you wouldn't have asked us.

Bumpsadaisie Wed 27-Mar-13 09:15:09

He sounds like a classic man-child who can't cope when the children come along and he isn't número uno anymore.

There are lots of men out there who are not scary, who do not control there partners by shouting and violent behaviour, who work full time and still do their share of household work (because they know that otherwise their partner will be working 24/7), and who far from being jealous of the children are happy that their wife puts the children first (because they are children, and he is an adult!)

Why don't you find yourself one of those men smile good luck.

issypiggle Wed 27-Mar-13 09:16:29

you have 2 kids, you're not supposed to be getting things right, except the bringing up of your dc. the house is never gonna be perfect. and he should know that.

What is your h expecting a stepford wife? no chance this is rl, you have the right to live a home without fear.

it's not about him and making him happy, it's time to make you and the dc happy.

Also your relationship with your partner may well have contributed to your depression after your son was born. If you had been given support and respect you may have felt very different. So it's not right for him to blame his behaviour on you being depressed ! Quite apart from the fact that we should all aim to take responsibilty for our own behaviour, and not go around blaming others for it !
Things sound really bad Twinkle sad I understand how you feel (including about wanting to try your best ) but really think things are not fixable in this relationship, and separating would be better, for you and your DC's.

Dilidali Wed 27-Mar-13 09:22:47

Please please please get some help and get out of that realationship!!!!you owe it to your children. Honey, it is NOT normal, it is not your fault!

Dilidali Wed 27-Mar-13 09:23:16

Relationship, sorry.

Lueji Wed 27-Mar-13 10:39:42

You realise that you are an adult, you are not answering back, you are having a conversation, or even a discussion. That is no justification for shouting.

You also realise that he is supposed to contribute at home too, from the moment he enters the door. You are not even supposed to ask, he is supposed to be volunteering. If you ask he should only do it or give a proper justification why not to do it.

You also feel ignored, in that he refuses to talk to you in his "quiet time". I sort of understand wanting some quiet time, but if you have no more opportunities to talk calmly with each other, then what relationship is there?

And about the children sobbing because he's not there. Lots of children sob when they go to school, or when the parents refuse to buy a toy.
The children are being far more damaged with his presence than by his absence.

FrequentFlyerRandomDent Wed 27-Mar-13 10:52:20

I am glad that you are seeing the WA lady soon. Please tell her everything you said here and what you did not tell us too. You need help. He is vile.

No, most women are not scared of their husbands.
No, being the main bread winner is not an excuse to be horrid and violent.

Listen to what he says. He has no intention of changing.

If he cannot cope with his children and his wife, he should not stay with them, nor should you try to play happy families.

Please do talk to as many people you can in RL, police, GP, HV, family. Your silence is only protecting him.

JuliaScurr Wed 27-Mar-13 10:59:25

imagine you were sharing a house with a friend and you wrote that - what would you do then?

BeingAWifeIsNotForMe Wed 27-Mar-13 11:01:49

Sweetheart you say you would never put your children in danger, they ARE in danger.

I have been "lucky" enough to get my husband abuser removed by the police last week, but do you know what, as bad as he was, he hasn't done a fraction of what that wanker is currently subjecting you and those poor babies to.


If you can't leave then 999 as soon as he gets home tonight.

Don't wait until next week for wa, phone them back today.

Are you certain that you and the babies are not at serious risk over a long bank holiday weekend with him?

I really am worried for you. ((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))

SissySpacekAteMyHamster Wed 27-Mar-13 11:03:35

You really do need to look at ways to get away from this man.

As for your son being too upset if he left, I'm sorry but seeing your mum abused/shouted at/leg shut in a car door/etc etc must be pretty upsetting for him!

Please tell the WA lady everything you have told us.

Your relationship isn't normal, it isn't normal to be scared of someone who is supposed to love you, it isn't normal for you to think he's lovely if he pops to the shop on the way home fgs.

I am so angry for you. You don't deserve to be treated this way. He is a bastard.

Twinkletwinklestars Wed 27-Mar-13 11:14:17

The sw wants to speak to me with the wa lady. I'm terrified they will take my babies. I hate this, they said they will probably speak to him. This will make everything worse. I feel sick sick sick, my fault it's on my doc notes. Should have kept quiet

Lucyellensmum95 Wed 27-Mar-13 11:21:45

You owe it to your children to leave, or make him leave.

He IS hurting your children, profoundly - like you say, the kicks and punches don't hurt you as much, what do you think this will do to your kids??

Please please leave

BeingAWifeIsNotForMe Wed 27-Mar-13 11:25:52

They will NOT take your babies now if you seek help.

They will however have no choice but to consider it, if you do nothing to ensure their safety and well being.

Lovely I can not stress this enough, do something NOW, this minute, you feel sick now, how sick will you feel when you or your babies are seriously hurt.

Please phone wa back now, they will do everything they can to protect your babies NOT take them from you. ((((hugs))))

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 27-Mar-13 11:30:54

They won't take your kids away.... they'll give you the support to leave and you'll thank them for it later. He wants you to keep quiet so that he can carry on abusing you and pretending it's all OK. You feel sick because you're frightened of him. Courage.... Speak out, accept the help, let them deal with him, get yourself safe.

sassy34264 Wed 27-Mar-13 11:33:04

twinkle I have a dp that gets stressed, gets annoyed at the house, the kids etc. But he never hurts us. EVER. I shout, get annoyed and tell him he is an ogre. That is more like a normal stressed with kids relationship. He goes all sheepish after and apologises for being said ogre.

And he phones nearly ever day (drives me slightly bonkers) to ask what do you need from the shop. This is how it is.

I'm not even the slightest bit scared of him.

It is not normal to be scared of your husband.

He has some serious issues if he thinks it is.

In a normal (ish) relationship ie, mine for example, i would down tools, not do any housework (apart from feed, bath and clothe the kids) not make his tea, not do his washing etc. But i think that would place you in extreme danger. I could suggest talking to him, but he has already proven that your welfare or emotional (and even physical) well being is of no concern to him.

You seriously have no choice but to leave. He will never ever treat you any better than this. I could bet my house on it sweetheart. He believes this is normal it is his core belief.

MummyNoName Wed 27-Mar-13 12:27:37

Sw and wa will support you.

They aren't there to send children to children's homes. They are there to help women and families who need help.

None of his behaviour is your fault. None.

Twinkletwinklestars Wed 27-Mar-13 13:03:34

I no he can change, I've let him be like this. I've been really knacked since we had second baby.
Will they make me leave him, has anyone had to do this before? If so what happens? What will they ask me when I meet them

showtunesgirl Wed 27-Mar-13 13:05:52

Sorry OP, but nobody makes anyone act in anyway. HE has chosen to be a shit to you.

It's perfectly normal to be tired after having a baby and if he doesn't understand that then there's something wrong with HIM not you.

colditz Wed 27-Mar-13 13:08:57

He's not a good dad, he's not a nice person, and he's making no effort whatsoever to get on with you, is he?

You deserve to be treated better than this.

colditz Wed 27-Mar-13 13:10:20

The sw wants to help you, just do what she suggests. She will have dealt with situations just like this before.

DistanceCall Wed 27-Mar-13 13:33:54

"I've let him be like this".

People aren't a certain way because other people let them. Unless you mean it in the sense that a thief is only a thief because he can get away with it, because the police don't catch him.

Do you want to be married to someone who will be a bad person unless you somehow manage not to let him? (Which, by the way, isn't going to happen. This is a grown man. Who can hit you and your children).

I am sickened to read this Twinkle. He is abusing you, you have not made him like this, he is just like this.

You are in danger, your children are in danger. You need to leave, please leave.

This is not a normal situation. Please, I am begging you, leave. Leave before he hurts you again.

sassy34264 Wed 27-Mar-13 13:41:24

I have 4 kids. 3 are under 3 years and the worst, i had 3 under 15 months!!!!

I was understandably knackered (still bloody am!) I can almost guanrantee that my house looked 10 times worse than yours ever could. And i don't always have tea ready. At no point as my dp treated me like your DH. Why?

Could you slam a car door on your Dh's legs? What feelings/thoughts, do you think, you would need to be feeling, to actually do that to your dh.?

I'm guessing, resentment, anger, hatred, deep disrespect.

You can't make someone be abusive to you and then get them to not be by being perfect. They will find another reason to treat you this bad, because it's not about the housework or the kids or the tiredness. They do it cos they want to, believe they are entitled to and quite like the way it works out for them.

I'm sorry but you are fooling only yourself.

Read other abusive posts. They will be eerily similiar to yours. He is not special or unique i'm afraid. He is a run of the mill abusive wanker. I'm sorry. hugs.

foolonthehill Wed 27-Mar-13 13:52:03

Your relationship is my relationship 18 months ago twinkle...but with 4 DC...don't wait for it to get better, it won't; don't wait for him to reform or realise how to behave, he won't. He knows what he is doing and you cannot change him, make it work or make him better. All you can do is protect yourself and your DC.

It seems hard to leave, but it is much harder to stay.

Take all the help you can and be brave, you CAN do this.

colditz Wed 27-Mar-13 13:52:43

He's let himself be like this. You are not his parent and he is not a child.

foolonthehill Wed 27-Mar-13 13:55:29

PS SW were involved with me thing that ever happened to me, He left and they were happy to let me carry on parenting in a non-abusive environemnt

tribpot Wed 27-Mar-13 14:22:00

Being all sweetness and light is how abusers trap their victims. So you 'knowing' he can change (back to the way he was before) is just part of the mind game of living with an abuser. You think it's your fault - check. You're afraid you'll lose your children (because he's threatened this in the past?) - check. You think if you could just get the tea on he wouldn't get mad (he'd just find something else) - check.

Please let SW and WA help you. They are on your side.

sassy34264 Wed 27-Mar-13 14:47:16

Plus, if you 'know' he can change, if only you have the house tidier, don't answer back, put his tea on the table etc, won't that mean that his despicable treatment of you, as worked?

You have rewarded his abusive behaviour by being the person he wanted you to be. Job done as far as Mr abuser is concerned..........until next time.

He then finds something else to find fault with - his treatment of you worked last time, why would he try anything else? It's only a matter of time before you blame yourself, change yourself etc and he'll be all happy again..........until next time.

Trust me, you won't recognise yourself in a bit.

Very difficult not to "reward" abusive behaviour by trying to placate or do what has been asked/demanded so as not to trigger further abusive episodes though sassy ?
As PPs have said often (especially where things are as bad as here) the only realistic way forward is to end the relationship.

Lueji Wed 27-Mar-13 16:07:53

He can change, but not by anything that you can do. Only him can make himself change.
He chooses to frighten you, to put you down,

You can do something right for yourself and your family and it's to leave him for good.

I had actually missed earlier your account of what happened when the car battery went flat. It's appalling!

Please, please, please, take all the help from the SW and the WA and run like the wind.

He has all the hallmarks of a dangerous abuser.

sassy34264 Wed 27-Mar-13 16:14:53

Yes it is juggling

My point is though, that it never works. They can never be placated enough or forever.

Self preservation needs to kick in.

Twinkletwinklestars Wed 27-Mar-13 20:28:54

Thanks for the replies

Im just scared for my dc, scared our family is going to be smashed apart. I really had hope that things would change. He never use to be like this.
Was wondering if they could help him with money worries & life pressures.
I don't no what to expect when I meet them. Don't no what they will ask what will happen. Feel sick hmm

MummyNoName Wed 27-Mar-13 20:48:29

Your dh can get help if he wants it alone.

He can be alone for a while. You and your dc will be safe and he could be working on treatment for himself.

This cannot be done together.

He IS dangerous for you and your dc.

Lueji Wed 27-Mar-13 20:54:11

Remember that if you do split up, it's because of him.
You have been given no choice, given his behaviour, and it will be to protect your children, not to harm them.

Twinkletwinklestars Wed 27-Mar-13 21:26:04

I no he will want to change.
He knows I have been talking to someone. He knew a couple of weeks ago when I really said this is it change.
I wrote lots down like the stuff I wrote on here. Gave it to him he shrugged it off and threw it. So I picked it up & put it in my bag. This worried him as to who I was giving it to . I thought he would get angry but he didn't. He sat, read & listened. We talked about what is not expectable & he actually acknowledged some stuff and apologised. This is massive for us And he's not gone back since. The worry for me is he may go back. If he could get some help mayb it would really change.

Twinkletwinklestars Wed 27-Mar-13 21:28:53

Also because of my pnd I'm worried he will say I can't cope. My babies will be taken away from me

showtunesgirl Wed 27-Mar-13 21:32:53

OP, there is a massive misconception that if you have PND that your DC will be taken away. Children are not taken away unless under exceptional circumstances.

MummyNoName Wed 27-Mar-13 21:50:59

If you are with him tolerating his behaviour there is no reason for him to change. You would be accepting his behaviour and he'll know he can get away with it. And things will escalate. They will.

Once separated, he can get help if he chooses to. So when he has changed and put practices and support in place for himself then you can think about being a family.

Together as you are the dc and yourself are in danger op

He wouldn't do the things he does in public or in front of family now because he knows he is in the wrong. But he gets away with doing it in private. He can control himself, he chooses not to.

tribpot Wed 27-Mar-13 22:54:20

He can say what he likes. He doesn't get to decide whether your dc are taken away from you.

He's put in two weeks of apparently 'trying to change' because he thinks you've shopped him to someone else, not because he is actually remorseful. When he thought it was just your opinion he threw it back in your face.

Your job is to protect your children from growing up in a damaged and damaging household. Literally everyone on MN who experienced domestic abuse as a child will tell you the same thing. Good luck.

Twinkletwinklestars Thu 28-Mar-13 15:26:37

I'm hearing what your saying I'm just really scared.
When he slammed my leg in the car door & was shouting that was in a packed car park. It was dark tho I was really quiet when it happened as he had our ds in his other arm.

Wa cancelled today, there not keen on meeting me with sw. They asked if I was going because the sw said I should. I said yes, meeting them next week now on my own.
Sw called & wants to talk to me with them she's arranging that. She wants us to talk about her speaking to dh. Sw is really confusing me, scaring me. I'm trying to hold on to my little family. Wa suggested something dh & I can do like a programme I think. To help us I want to suggest it to him but not sure how.
Why am I more at risk on bank hols?? I've really dreaded them at times and wkds.

Twinkletwinklestars Thu 28-Mar-13 15:32:17

I see how wrong we are now, I guess I just need one last shot at us.

While I'm feeling a bit stronger and no how wrong some stuff is.
I need to no I've tried my best I guess

CogitoErgoSometimes Thu 28-Mar-13 15:48:21

"I need to no I've tried my best I guess"

You've tried your best but you're not dealing with a reasonable man. He doesn't have to try at all. A quick apology and you're willing to believe he's a changed character. Please don't be fooled by this act. Talk to the social worker, talk to womens aid and always remember that you and your children are a perfectly whole and acceptable family. There is no place for a violent man in a family. If the family breaks up it will be because he smashed it all by himself.

Your family will be smashed apart if you stay with this man, not if you leave him.

You have already tried your hardest, when will it be his turn to try his hardest, with actions not words?

I don't think he will ever change, an abusive man is never going to morph into a real man.

Oscarandelliesmum Thu 28-Mar-13 20:26:14

I am so very, very sorry this is happening to you op.
He is dangerous, please consider getting out this weekend. Sw are on your side, but their priority is the safety of your children, if you make excuses for his appalling abuse to them they may question that you are acting strongly enough to safeguard your children.
I really don't want to add to your fears. Please keep posting here. None of this is your fault.

izzyizin Thu 28-Mar-13 20:53:49

I guess I just need one last shot at us

In a ideal world, that one last shot would be in the form of your toe up his backside as you kick his abusive arse out of your home for good, but if you want to have one last attempt at bringing positive change into your life and those of your dc, there's only one thing you can do and that is to be completely honest with the sw and WA about what he's done/is doing to you.

If you attempt to cover up for him and minimise his abusive behaviour, all you'll be doing is enabling him to carry on using you as his whipping boy whenever he feels the need to relieve his bad temper.

There are courses you can go on - ask WA when the next Freedom Programme is due to start and book yourself a place.

He's a good dad, nice person and gets on with ppl.

No he isn't. You're seeing something that isn't there. A man who shuts your leg in the car door, gets very angry when the housework isn't done, won't let you work, calls you a f**** idiot, blames you for him losing his temper, "doesn't beat you" but kicks and pushes... what makes you think this nasty piece of work is a nice person?

Guess I'm just trying to suss out if others live like this & if its normal.

I'm sure some others do live like this. But no, of course it is not normal.

What is this "us" that you're trying to save?

Twinkletwinklestars Thu 28-Mar-13 21:44:25

I keep reading horrid stories of ss taking children away.
I'm terrified, My dc are my whole life, my heart beat.
My ds has witnessed 2 things, one the leg in car. I was shocked he did this and he really scared me. Id just had a baby so was feeling v emotional, so i just swept it under the carpet. I was scared to ever bring it up till a couple if wks back.
2nd was him really shouting @ me he upset my ds. It was horrid & I made him leave as I said I would call police if he didn't. This is the incident they no about.
The sw seems ok, it's just I'm feeling really confused by her. I don't no what she wants to no. I don't think I'm telling her what's to hear. I want to say atm our relationship is equal however & I do mean this if it ever gets near to how it was were over.
I'm taking all your comments in I'm seeing actions atm. Consistency that's what I need to see. Mayb we do need time apart.
He said he's never wanted to scare me. That's upset him to know that.
Most stuff happens around drink, he needs to drink, is drinking or hungover. That's the pattern, I don't drink at all because if this reason. He can't shift stress without drink. He gets short temped angry. Stress gives him headances yet he won't see a doctor. I want to help him he needs some help.

Shlurpbop Thu 28-Mar-13 21:52:17

Your posts make me so sad and worried for you and your children.

This is not a normal relationship.

Please leave him, Twinkle x

MumOfTheMoos Thu 28-Mar-13 21:53:47

Twinkle, darling, they won't take your children away from you.

My dad was violent and mean and nasty to my mum; it wasn't normal and eventually she made him leave.

It was the best thing she ever did, for all of us.

Ring womensaid, get some help, get out of this - you and your kids deserve better.

Good luck.

izzyizin Thu 28-Mar-13 22:03:55

You can't 'help' him - he has to seek help for himself but he's not going to bother while you make excuses for him and allow him to continue abusing you and, by default, the dc.

The sw wants to know if your dc are safe and, at the moment, they are NOT safe and won't be until he has modified his behaviour or left your home.

Imagine if you were living apart. You've said he finds the dc 'hard work'. Would you be comfortable letting him have unsupervised contact with your dc, letting him care for them overnight on his own? I know I wouldn't trust him to look after them properly and not lose his temper with them - would you?

As I've said, if you're not honest with the sw you'll be enabling him to continue his abusive ways. If you manage to convince the sw you/the dc are safe this time round and you come to the attention of SS again, you may find your lack of candour comes back to bite you on the bum because they're unlikely to believe you a second time.

If your dc truly are your 'heartbeat', you'll put their needs above those of the abusive twunt who fathered them in a heartbeat and make damn sure they never have to witness their dm being abused by their df again.

Twinkletwinklestars Thu 28-Mar-13 22:41:57

No wouldn't trust him to have them overnight. Wouldn't trust him with both at the same time unless I was there.

I'm feeling strangely empowered the more I write & read. Mayb I've put to much blame on myself. I did believe that it was ok for him to be like this to me. As long as he didn't seriously hurt me.

What do I say to ppl? Feel ashamed embarrassed.
What if he takes me to court to try & take our dc. I've read how some women have lost there children because its there word against his and they lost. Scared to risk it.

I've been honest with sw however I'm really nervous when I speak to her. Finding it hard as its she doesn't need to see me to she does to see me. Then it's fine to she wants to see me again & again before she can write a report. The stress of this is hard. Can't sleep between feeds & could really do with some sleep.

Spiritedwolf Thu 28-Mar-13 22:42:25

You can't help him. He has to want to change and seek help himself. You can't rescue this man. You can rescue your children though, you can help the rest of their childhood be free of violence.

By staying with him, you give him no reason to re-examine his life. He can have you and the children, he can drink, he can kick off and hurt you and blame it on alcohol and stress. There are no consequences for him, only for you and your babies. He doesn't seem to care about you and your children's feelings or well being, in spite of your loyalty.

Your job as a mum is to protect your children. I'm sure the SW and WA will help you to do this. He is an adult. There is help out there for him if he chooses to seek it. You can't do it for him. He hasn't choosen to seek that help, you can't keep waiting for him to, your children are living with this day in and day out. The children need your help.

We know this is difficult. He confuses you with being 'nice' in some ways. But this 'niceness' is part of keeping you close to abuse you. If he was horrid all the time, you'd find it too easy to leave and then he wouldn't have somone to control. WA can help you through this, they understand how abuse works.

Spiritedwolf Thu 28-Mar-13 23:03:37

You haven't done anything wrong. sad You don't make him behave like this. He chooses to, then blames it on you. But he's wrong to.

He is seriously hurting you by controlling you and making you scared. He's making you watch your children be upset and scared. That must be seriously hurting you. Just because it doesn't leave marks doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. sad Your feelings matter Twinkle.

You can have counselling and/or do the Freedom programme to help you learn how to rebuild your self esteem and how to recognise abusive and controlling behaviour in future relationships.

I'm glad you're feeling stronger, keep reading, keep seeking help. You can do it.

cuillereasoupe Fri 29-Mar-13 07:13:07

I think you said upthread Twinkle that your son was copying your not-so-DP and shouting at you. Your son is learning that this is how men treat the women they're supposed to love. I'm sorry if this is harsh, but staying in this relationship is actively damaging your children, not protecting them.

Twinkletwinklestars Fri 29-Mar-13 12:12:45

Do I tell him what's going on?

cuillereasoupe Fri 29-Mar-13 12:18:16

No, absolutely not. Please don't, love. You would be putting yourself and your lovely kids in danger.

izzyizin Fri 29-Mar-13 12:48:25

No, don't tell him what's going on for the following reasons:

1. He is clearly not the most rational of men and its probable he will turn on you and blame you for whoever alerted the authorities to the dv he's been subjecting you to because twunts like him always blame something or someone else for their failings.

2. He may decide to wind his neck in and go on a charm offensive; morph into a caring and considerate h and df in an attempt to show you how it could be if only you'd give him another chance and stop telling 'people' what he's done to you as he only did it because he was stressed, tired, worried about money, thought you didn't love him any more, etc etc.

Of course, if you fall for that it'll last all of 5 minutes before he's back in the same old routine; shouting the odds and whacking you with whatever's to hand whenever it suits him.

3. He needs a shock. A big one. Being pulled up short by a force bigger than himself is the only thing that may persuade him to get the help he needs to try to turn himself into a half decent human being. It'll be an uphill struggle with no guarantee of success, but it's one he has to engage in for himself by himself with no assistance from you.

What if he takes me to court to try & take our dc This isn't going to happen. He might threaten to do it but it'll be nothing more than bluff and bluster because it will cost him a small fortune. If, by some remote chance, he tries anything like this and you've co-operated with SS you'll have their report to rely on and, if you have WA onside you'll get all the support and advice you need to to make sure that any contact he has with your dc is supervised until such time as he's proved capable of caring for them properly.

CogitoErgoSometimes Fri 29-Mar-13 13:04:02

"What do I say to ppl? Feel ashamed embarrassed"

Tell them the truth i.e. He's a nasty drunk and an aggressive bully. People can understand that and the only person who should be ashamed or embarrassed is him. That's all the social worker wants to hear as well incidentally. The truth. If you hedge it at all, if you cover for him, if you make excuses, lie or take the blame then the social worker's hands are tied and they can't help you.

So tell the truth and shame the devil.

Twinkletwinklestars Fri 29-Mar-13 19:11:47

He knows something's going on.
Keeps saying I no what your up to, I'm meeting a friend over wk. which is out of character for me as I normally don't see friends in his time. He thinks I'm meeting a man, then reminds me I'm yuk. Told him he can come and check and where I'm going

Feel like the walls are craving in that's why I want to tell him. He makes out I'm crazy. He just did a perfect act in font of my dm.
He shouts at me to stop shouting but I'm not shouting. He tells me my kisses r fake. He keeps saying he knows. That's y I think I should tell him he won't hurt just be anger and shouting

izzyizin Fri 29-Mar-13 19:21:52

I wouldn't count on it just being 'anger and shouting' if you tell him, honey.

It's a long weekend and a you're best advised to play a long game.

But what's this with your dm? Is she taken in by him or was she just playing along? Does she live near to you? Have you told her how he behaves towards you?

Who'll be looking after your dc when you meet up with your friend?

Twinkletwinklestars Fri 29-Mar-13 19:42:49

Need to b quick

Taking my dc withe me

Go Twinkle !
Good luck thanks

Lueji Fri 29-Mar-13 20:14:37

Are you going just for the weekend?

Why not make it permanent?

tribpot Fri 29-Mar-13 20:35:25

Go go go.

Twinkletwinklestars Fri 29-Mar-13 20:58:47

Sorry as in quick message, said I was on loo!

Taking my dc with me to meet a friend.

Twinkletwinklestars Fri 29-Mar-13 21:12:22

My dm is amazing however the man who fathered me was very violent & controlling. I have nothing to do with him & hide if ever I see him or his family around. So my dm compares other men to him. As in there not as bad as him. Also I'm ashamed I've got into this situation & she tells me often not to let him drink loads go off on benders etc. I can't stop him hmm think now she relishes this. She doesn't no just how bad it all is.
Doesn't live local don't see much of her.
There was an I incident where the 1st time ever I saw in my ds the panic & fear I had when I was a child. That's when I ment it when I said to him Change or were gone. That's how I no in myself I will never let that happen to my dc again. He's knows its last chance

tribpot Fri 29-Mar-13 21:14:23

He knows it's last chance so he's spending it accusing you of being unfaithful? Pretending you're shouting when you're not?

What kind of last chance are you giving him?

the man who fathered me was very violent & controlling

I've been wondering about your dad - that maybe this is why you need to ask if your relationship is normal.

Twinkletwinklestars Fri 29-Mar-13 21:47:27

He was so different from my d nothing like him.
My dh would get upset when I told him stuff he did. I said to him that I feel like he thinks he can treat me bad but just not as bad as my d. I also no I always thought as long as he's not as bad as my d.
Too much in font of the dc now, now my ds is older. Not violence there's just been one time when they were present. Lots of shouting tho its not right.
He not violent to me much at all. Most happened when I was pregnant and then few mths after there born. He's never punched me or really hurt me. Just spiteful at times really. Pinching and lots of standing over me and shouting when I was feeding. Lots of times when I was feeding in the early days. Never could work this out.

ccsays Fri 29-Mar-13 21:59:08

He's not violent to me much at all


Most happened when I was pregnant


Never could work this out

It's because he's a violent, emotionally abusive arsehole with no respect for you. He will not change. Please get help confused

Twinkletwinklestars Sat 30-Mar-13 11:54:31

Feeling really angry towards him today.
He's going to have a big drinking sess today once were back from shopping.
Maybe sw talking to him wouldn't be so bad after all. He won't ever listen to me.
Just off to get him now the house is in his words an fkin tip. Oh well can't b bothered today

He should clean the house instead of going drinking then, shouldn't he?

izzyizin Sat 30-Mar-13 13:36:32

If he kicks off before, during, or after, his drinking session PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE call 999 and let the police remove him from your home so that you and your dc can start to live without fear of this thoroughly nasty and abusive twunt.

Wingedharpy Sat 30-Mar-13 14:34:00

And maybe he wouldn't have so many money problems if he wasn't spending what he has on alcohol.
He sounds like a nasty piece of work.

Twinkletwinklestars Sat 30-Mar-13 15:33:08

I will don't worry.
He's in a happy mood today so sure it will be fine.
I'm use to this, the dc & I spend the night upstairs & he will stay downstairs.
I no he's scared of the police,I said I will call them a couple of times before. Once when he was racing another car. They were trying to run each other off the road. It was scary the dc were in car I was screaming @ him to stop. He was just silent & carried on slamming on breaks & racing the other car. Sorry to keep bringing stuff up but I tend to shut it out my mind once he says sorry.
This is something else that makes me feel on eggshells. It's like he can b really scary but quiet. I don't understand how he does this to me
It's really helping me, all your advice thank u.

Twinkletwinklestars Sat 30-Mar-13 15:35:30

I'm not scared all the time, just if I need to ask for something.
Or when his stress starts to build & build. I don't live in fear everyday at all.
Some days were all so happy & it's lovely & calm

"They were trying to run each other off the road. It was scary the dc were in car I was screaming @ him to stop. "

This is the man you call "a good dad"? confused

"I don't live in fear everyday at all."

You say this as though it's something to be pleased about. It's not - you shouldn't be living in fear any day!

izzyizin Sat 30-Mar-13 15:56:26

Use this thread as your 'memory bank'; note down all of the incidents, such as 'racing' another car, where he's put the dc at risk and BE SURE to tell the sw and WA about them so you can be given support and advice to ensure that, once he's out of your home, he does not have unsupervised contact with your dc.

Honesty really is your best policy, honey. If 'the authorities' aren't made aware of the true extent of his violence and abuse, they'll be powerless to protect you and the dc - and the 3 of you are in desperate need of protection from this abusive piece of gobshite who is blighting your lives.

I want to drop him from a great height but, as it is, all I can hope for is that the powers that be will jump on from a great height and nothing's going to give me greater pleasure than you coming back to report that's exactly what's happened to him - and he's having to get his own fucking tea elsewhere smile

freerangeeggs Sat 30-Mar-13 18:02:50

I'm a teacher and I've worked with numerous children who witnessed domestic violence. You don't want your children to end up like those poor souls, do you? They can't form proper relationships because they're controlling and angry and lack trust; their educations are ruined because of their extreme behaviour. They are utterly miserable and sadly will probably replicate the home life they had in their own families. They resent their parents and treat even the abused parents badly (as you acknowledge your own son is already beginning to do).

If you love your children and care about their welfare, you won't waste your time trying to fix this man who clearly does not give a toss about them or their mother. He doesn't have to hit them to hurt them - badly. Is it worth it just so that you can say you 'gave it your best shot'?

freerangeeggs Sat 30-Mar-13 18:08:32

Sorry, I just read the bit about him racing a car with your dcs crying in the back seat.

You need to protect them.

Twinkletwinklestars Sat 30-Mar-13 19:45:51

They weren't crying in back seats.
Baby had no idea what was happening. My ds knew something was bad. My fault I ended up screaming at him & trying to call police. My dh was silent & just kept looking at me with dead wide eyes. This is what I find mind stirring the silence. So to my ds I guess I would have scared him as I ended up screaming & crying. My fault only did because I was scared he would kill us. The way we are at the moment is a million miles away from that day. It's not the same person. This again I find totally confusing.
He's said he will take our son swimming tomorrow pm if he's feeling ok. May give wa a call when he's gone.

izzyizin Sat 30-Mar-13 19:53:08

How very condescending kind of him.

Fwiw, other dfs don't talk about taking their dcs swimming if they 'feel ok' - they take their dcs swimming and to other activities even when they 'don't feel ok' because good dfs put their dcs needs before those of their own.

Let's get this straight - your "D"H was racing the car, trying to chase another car off the road, and you think it was your fault your ds was scared?

Twinkletwinklestars Sat 30-Mar-13 21:36:44

I made a fuss, I was making noise. I'm sure if I didn't he would not have known what was happening.

But it was not your fault! The whole thing was your DH's fault - what kind of idiot does that at any time, let alone with his kids in the car?

Twinkletwinklestars Sat 30-Mar-13 22:10:29

Could never have predicted he would do that. (Car) would have bet money on him never acting like that. The only thing he said was no one does that to me.
I just feel guilty my ds saw me like that & that his df did that. Sometimes when I'm cuddling ds to sleep at night I want to say I'm sorry about his df. How im just so so sorry.
Wish id left him that day.
Even if I somehow bring out bad in him I don't mean to.
Managed to leave him to his drink now.
I really think we do need time apart.
He would rock our dd in his arms all calmly when she was born saying your mummy's a bitch that's right a bitch. No aggression just smile and tell her I was a bitch. That really hurt, if I ever bring it up he just snaps that was ages ago ssshh sshh now forget it. But I can't it's always there

ccsays Sat 30-Mar-13 23:21:49

Why are you with this man?

izzyizin Sat 30-Mar-13 23:32:45

Dear god, honey, you have GOT to get him out of your life before your dc are irreparably harmed by him.

You don't just need time apart - you need a permanent separation by way of a divorce because this man is not going to change his ways in this lifetime.

WrenNatsworthy Sat 30-Mar-13 23:33:09

Oh Twinkle sad

Is this the first time you've properly talked about all this?

Keep on writing it down, if it's helping. Then keep the thread and tell the whole story to Women's Aid. The DC will not be taken away from you but a SW is right to be concerned about the effect of them witnessing the domestic violence. Like you said upthread, it's not just the physical stuff. Emotional abuse is DV too.

Twinkletwinklestars Sun 31-Mar-13 04:30:18

Need to keep reading it all back remind myself of the bad. I just block it out most of the time. I always have an excuse for it as does he. He was stressed etc. I really feel sorry for him sometimes how stupid of me. Feel like he's two separate ppl at times. Just sat here feeding my dd I dont ever want her to feel like this.

CheerfulYank Sun 31-Mar-13 04:46:40

Honey, I have never for one second been afraid of my DH. He would be horrified at the thought. My mom is not afraid of my dad. That is normal.

Please find a way to leave him. Your DC deserve better than him.

Astelia Sun 31-Mar-13 04:54:37

This is terrible twinkle, you have got to get away from this man. He is dangerous. I can't believe how appalling his behaviour has been.

Get originals/copies of paperwork safe and start making plans. As everyone else says, talk to WA and tell them what you have told us.

ElectricSheep Sun 31-Mar-13 05:16:56

Blocking it out is your mental self-defences kicking in. It's your mind's way of coping with something that is very very stressful to you.

I think the drinking this weekend might be a dangerous time. Remember if he gets scary you can ring the police. They will know what to do and will take him away from the home until he's calmed down. So just ring 999 if you feel frightened.

If you asked him to leave so that you can have a rest from him, would he go?

Twinkletwinklestars Sun 31-Mar-13 08:18:06

Thank u

I told him he scared me, he said I think I should leave. We need to spilt up if u feel scared. I was so upset thought he might have said sorry ill change. (This was a while ago)

I don't think he's dangerous I don't no anyone who would think that of him

Ppl would explain him as laid back & funny. He's not aggressive I'm sure he would try & take dc. It's my word against his. I

twinkle he is VERY dangerous. More so because he has managed to make you think he isn't.
Please talk to lots of people in real life and keep coming back here, we will support you.

This man has made me VERY angry, and I am not an angry person sad

Twinkletwinklestars Sun 31-Mar-13 08:58:56

He's downstairs now being so lovely to our dc. Going to take out ds out for a fun afternoon. He's lovely today.
Not hungover which is a 1st. This is how he's changed so much. Coming up to 3wks now. He's been great & helping. He's fine if I don't have t on time & I'm leaving most of the kitchen cleaning till morning now which is fine too. Put our ds to bed every night, reading to him. He's never been this good for so long. So he can be a lovely df. The thought ive told someone is y he's being this way I'm sure. I no he loves them dc he does

There's so much that happened after I had our ds so a while back. I really want him to understand how it hurt me. Want to talk about these things that happened. Do I bring them up why he's being so good?

tribpot Sun 31-Mar-13 09:16:24

But this strategy is designed to make it impossible for you to bring up the poor behaviour. If he really wanted to change, he would be asking you for feedback, wanting to know if you're happy. Not just acting it.

Coming up to 3wks now

Wow. Impressive - not. And in that time he's still been accusing you of all sorts, been out on how many benders, and he shouts at you daily.

Whether he loves his children is irrelevant. The question is whether seeing you put upon, having their lives risked in a ridiculous road race, etc etc etc is in your children's best interests.

He stepped up the physical violence when you were at your most vulnerable. I would take this as a warning to get out before you're vulnerable for any reason again.

WrenNatsworthy Sun 31-Mar-13 12:11:36

Twinkle This man is not another one of your children. Using phrases like 'he's being so good', and 'he's been good for three weeks' isn't good when you are talking about the person who is supposed to be there by your side parenting the children with you.

Do you really believe that this is the end of all the pain and suffering he's put you through so far?

Twinkletwinklestars Sun 31-Mar-13 12:13:42

If I call wa from landline will it show up in phone bill? It's free from mobile

tribpot Sun 31-Mar-13 12:16:10

check their website. It's a free call but might get listed in the count of free calls. It shouldn't but it will save you from worrying.

Twinkletwinklestars Sun 31-Mar-13 12:38:02

Ok thank u

Twinkletwinklestars Sun 31-Mar-13 12:43:26

Most vulnerable that makes sense now. I really needed him too.
He always was so against me bf that's why I think he use to really shout when I was feeding at times. Guess I looked vulnerable to when I was feeding. He doesn't now tho

izzyizin Sun 31-Mar-13 13:29:59

Last Wednesday you said you were meeting with a WA worker - have you met her yet? Do you have a contact number for her? If so, give her a call as the national helpline is often oversubscribed, especially at weekends, and it may take some time before someone gets back to.

As for it being 'your word against his', it's improbable that SS were alerted to concerns about what is happening to you and to your dc because you are abusing him and I have no doubt your account will be believed.

With regard to him 'being lovely' for the past 3 weeks, he knows that if you tell anyone what he's been doing to you and the dc, his game is up and he'll lose out on having you to wipe his self-entitled abusive arse and having you be his personal punchbag when he feels like relieving his non-existent 'stress'.

Being 'lovely' is simply another way in which he fucks with your head and leads you to believe there must be something wrong with you rather than the truth, which is that he's a thoroughly nasty screwed up piece of gobshite who's not fit to be a husband or a father.

When abusive twunts fear their victims may get away from them, they can easily do 3 weeks and more of 'good behaviour' standing on their on their minisicule dicks.

After he's done 3 years of never putting a foot, or a fist, wrong there may be some faint hope he won't relapse but, as the saying goes, leopards don't change their spots and there'll always be a chance he'll revert to type.

Twinkletwinklestars Sun 31-Mar-13 16:33:55

I'm not his punch bag it's not like that.
He's never beat me it's more spite. like he will keep kicking a ball at me even if I ask him to stop.

She had to cancel the sw wants to meet with me & wa. Don't want to talk when sw there. Feel like everything I have shut away is spilling out of me now. That's why I thought I would call helpline. I can't stop everything that's happened pouring in my mind anymore. I sound crazy. The more I write about this the more that comes back. The big stuffs still lurking about too. The more I think the more I realise its all so wrong. Can't stand him. Then he will be charming and cuddle me and it all gets buried again I'm scared to lose him. Try & make him happy I confuse myself as to why I just don't leave with the dc. So I can understand why ppl have been asking that

izzyizin Sun 31-Mar-13 20:32:16

I'm not his punch bag it's not like that. He's never beat me it's more spite It's one and the same, honey. He uses you to vent his spleen so he play Mr Nice Guy with others.

You're 'scared to lose him'? You should be scared of keeping him because, sooner or later, this man will cause you serious physical injury and who'll take care of your dc if you're unable to?

There's no need for you and dc to leave your home. Don't be scared of telling the sw the truth so that measures can be put in place that will require him to leave.

This is exactly the kind of shock he's long deserved and it's the only action which may possibily cause him to think on about why he's treated you and his dc so badly.

Twinkletwinklestars Sun 31-Mar-13 20:49:14

Izziylin thank u your really helping me.

I can't pretend it's just not happened anymore

izzyizin Sun 31-Mar-13 20:58:27

There always comes a time when the make-believe has to end. You've reached it and his behaviour has seen to it that you can't go back and rewrite history.

You'll carry the mental scars of what he's done to you for the rest of your life, but what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

You will come out of this older, wiser, and FREE to live life the way it's meant to be lived - with joy and laughter. And the happier you are, the happier your dc will be.

Seriously, honey, you DON'T need him to define you as a woman or as a loving, caring, and competent mother to your dc and the sooner you come to this realisation, the better it will be for the 3 of you.

foolonthehill Sun 31-Mar-13 20:59:55

Hi twinkle.
have had internet problems so sorry fro not being around.

You know that he stays just the right side of acceptable to you...but that he is still not loving, kind, thoughtful, gracious, forgiving, generous or safe...this is how he keeps you, to be just not bad enough.

But your eyes are opening now and you can see.

My own DC are older than yours. My boy (9) especially bears a lot of damage from the years i spent "mending" my relationship. He is angry, hurt, socially inept, scared, insecure but improving little by little.

The SW does not have to be at your first WA meet up, indeed the WA lady may well prefer that she is not.

Reach out for support Twinkle and protect yourself and your little like this is an addiction, better got over and life lived in freedom.

You can do this

Twinkletwinklestars Sun 31-Mar-13 21:00:00

Your all helping thank u

It's a relief to talk & no I'm not bringing it all on myself. He choses his reactions to situation right

foolonthehill Sun 31-Mar-13 21:02:39

If you change yourself to keep him sweet he will just change the goal posts.

This is not a game that you can win.

The only way to return to (or find for the first time) yourself is to let this man go emotionally, then kick him out physically and keep him out.

goingwildforcrayons Sun 31-Mar-13 21:06:01

Twinkle, he slammed a car door on your leg. What happens if he does that to one of your DCs? That would be assault, just like it was to you.

I'm sorry this is happening to you. The Jekyll and Hydes are always the worst as they mess with your head, making you think that it is your fault. It isn't. You owe it to yourself and DCs to get rid.

I don't know where abouts in the country you live, but this is a link to an organisation I did some consultancy work for. If nothing else it explains how DV isn't just punching you senseless, its all the other things you have described.

Please please get the SW and WA to help.

izzyizin Sun 31-Mar-13 21:33:29

We all chose our reactions to situations. He chooses to take his bad temper out on you for situations that are entirely outside of your control because it boosts his ego to see his wife scared of what he might do if she doesn't jump to it and cater to his every whim.

Twunts like him are abject cowards; he'd cry like a baby if a strong guy slammed his leg in a car door or locked him in the car in the dark, or took him on a hair-raising drive while racing another vehicle - and he'd shit himself if the police pulled in him for domestic violence.

Twunts like him are also very often underachievers and, as they don't have what it takes to make an impression on the world, they compensate for their inadequacies by acting like little Hitlers at home, throwing their bantam weight around and expecting their nearest and dearest to jump to attention to please and appease the Great Dictator.

Make no mistake; if he continues to go unchecked your dc will have hell to pay. Walking on eggshells one minute, overwhelmed by his 'fun daddy' act the next, and never knowing when he's going to turn on them - much like yourself.

You and your dc don't need this and you certainly don't deserve it, Twinkle. And once you've had a taste of the sweet life you can have without him, you won't want to go back to a life of misery with him.

Twinkletwinklestars Mon 01-Apr-13 09:48:51

So true, unless he's drunk then he thinks he can fight anyone.

If not he gets me to argue his case! Tells me it's my wifely duty gets me to stop talking to ppl from him. While he's all sweet. If there's a funny noise at night I have to check, even tho he appa sleeps with a snooker q & hammer next to his bed for this reason!

Just tried to

showtunesgirl Mon 01-Apr-13 13:36:24

I'm sorry. He sleeps with what next to the bed? [shocked]

OP, this is not normal and what's to say you won't make a funny noise one night and takes one of those objects to you?!

Twinkletwinklestars Mon 01-Apr-13 15:19:20

Wondered if others sleep with things next to the bed
That's why he's banned from being upstairs when he's drunk.

Couple of years back now he said how men these days really do stuff because of money worries.
I always hate asking for money because of this.

I've been really tough this wkd not taken any rubbish

izzyizin Mon 01-Apr-13 15:46:45

Don't fool yourself into thinking you've cracked it... the fact is you shouldn't have to be 'tough' and not take 'any rubbish' either this weekend, or at any other time for that matter.

As you won't be able to keep your guard up all the time, and as he won't put up with having to play the role of Mr Nice for much longer, you're best advised to make sure you get all the help you can from WA and SS to get him out of your home.

If he's told you money worries are a justification for his abuse of you he's talking out of his arse which, in the case of twunts like him, is where all their pearls of total shite wisdom emanate from.

Twinkletwinklestars Mon 01-Apr-13 19:00:25

I don't want him out the home not forever.
If I tell the sw everything I'm sure they won't let dh see the dc. There make us seperate I'm sure. I don't want that I want him in there lives. I want them to offer him some help, help us as a family be a family.
He's been doing so much to help, can't believe it. I do think we need time apart but not forever.

I don't know what to say to you, if his abuse of you and your kids is not enough to make you call it a day.

izzyizin Mon 01-Apr-13 19:37:34

I do think we need time apart

How do you think this will come about if he's not made to leave your home? Do you have somewhere you can go live with the dc if he won't leave?

You very definitely do need time apart so your dc can begin to become all they can be without him blighting their young lives and so that you can see that what he's been doing is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE and harmful to them.

Do you want your ds to grow up to be a mirror image of his father abusing the women in his life, or for your dd to grow up to believe that the abuse you tolerate from her father is what she should put up with in her future relationships with the opposite sex?

SS's priority is to satisfy themselves that your dc are safe from harm; if they can do this without requiring your h to live elsewhere, they will - but they will not stop him having contact with his dc, albeit that contact may need to supervised until such time as he has demonstrated that he can parent properly.

Stop indulging in fantasies of him changing without the help of outside agencies; he may have been on his best behaviour over the last few days and shown that he's knows how to behave in a halfway decent manner to you, but this WON'T last unless he's given an incentive to seek help for his 'issues'.

You owe it to your dc to be honest with SS and with the WA worker.

If you cop out of your responsibilities to your dc now, you will be running the risk of your h doing you very serious harm in the not too distant future at which time he won't be able to see his dc and, if you're unable to care for them due to being hospitalised or worse, they may be taken into care if there are no other relatives/responsible adults available to look after them.

Sometimes the medicine is bitter, but far it's better to swallow it in the hope it will prevent a treatable ailment becoming critical or terminal.

Do the right thing by your dc and you won't go wrong.

Nanny0gg Mon 01-Apr-13 19:45:27

I'm old enough to be your mother, and if you were my daughter I would have picked up your children and taken the lot of you away.

Why are you not taking on board everything everyone is telling you? He is an abusive husband and I would lay odds on him becoming an abusive father when your DCs are old enough to not do what they're told.
And what he says to them about you is vile. As is what he does and says to you in front of them.
You haven't given one good reason for staying. Why are you not thinking about your children?

foolonthehill Mon 01-Apr-13 19:49:27

No one can make you leave him,
no one can force him to leave you (unless it's for a prison cell)

Sw can help, support and assess, they can even remove your DC if they can really see what is going on in your home.
WA can help, support and understand
We can offer insight, information and hold your hand

But ONLY YOU CAN REALLY KEEP YOURSELF AND YOUR CHILDREN SAFE, it is your duty and your right to be safe and to look after your children.

Every week 2 women are killed by their intimate partners...104 women a year who thought they were safe and could "manage" their abusive partner.

One child per week is killed by an abusive parent or carer...many more are injured, disfigured and untold numbers are emotionally and psychologically damaged. These are the ones we know about, many more have non-accidental injuries that are passed off as legitimate accidents, even deaths may be inadequately explained. They are failed by social services, the NHS schools and our communities...but most of all they are failed by their parents. ONLY YOU HAVE GUARANTEED POWER TO PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN don;t rely on anyone else to do it

there is no reliable way to predict which abuser will end up killing or permanently disabling their partner/child...only the previous presence of abuse. there is no thermometer to tell you when it is too dangerous to stay.

You don;t have to decide forever...just decide it is unacceptable for now, live without him, do the freedom programme, do personal individual counselling, love your children...then look back at him and see if he is the man you deserve...the man who has your back when things are tough, the man who builds you up, who loves, cares and honours you...the one who you can trust with your children to protect and care for them in every way and every circumstance...then you can make the decision how long he should be gone for....

However much you hate knowing, you do know that what he does is wrong...and no person, no, not even you can make another one can't and shouldn't police him, you can't and shouldn't have to guard yourself or have rules in the house to keep you safe when he is drunk shock, you can't and won;t make him a better person. Only he can do that, and he can do it without you there...or he can't do it at all.

izzyizin Mon 01-Apr-13 20:07:28

Don't allow immature teenage twaddle to the effect that this man is your 'soul mate', the only man in the world for you, and that deep down, underneath all the shit he's visited on you, he 'really' loves you, to cloud your thinking.

There aren't many certainties in life but one thing's for sure - a man who truly loves his dw and his dc doesn't treat them in the way your h has behaved towards you and his children.

It's time to grow up, Twinkle. You chose to bring 2 innocent little souls into this world and they need a mother who's worthy of the title.

Twinkletwinklestars Mon 01-Apr-13 21:36:02

I'm scared real scared.

I no something will happen it has to. He's clever really clever like he's said to me before what you going to do. Call the police and say help me my dh is looking at me and quietly scaring me. He will say I'm mental I have problems I'm nuts he tells me that.
He wouldn't hurt the dc it's me I'm the trigger I guess. However to keep me he may try & take them.
Years ago he threaten my dog if I left this is still stamped in my head even tho it was so long ago.
We privately rent , he pays it so we will have to leave. We lose everything and no matter what I do I risk losing the dc To him if he takes me to court, to ss if they think there unsafe. That's why I stay, because I'm so scared of losing my dc. That's why I don't care what he does to me.
Also there are emotions between us there is love at times. This mixes it up even more.

You won't lose your DC Twinkle

If you feel scared you need to listen to that and take action.

All the best to you.

foolonthehill Mon 01-Apr-13 21:43:37

You are not the trigger...It is his responsibility to act and react well. this is what normal people do. If he acted with other people how he acts with you he would be locked up either in a cell or an institution.

Threatening or harming animals is a VERY bad sign.

You are are more likely to lose your DC if you stay. If you leave you will be protecting them, if you stay you are exposing them to danger.

There are refuges all over the country, they will take you and your children.You need not be homeless.

if you love your DC then you have to get out...if he hurts and harms you he is hurting and harming them

The love thing I understand, but you have to use your head for this...let the emotions follow.

Twinkletwinklestars Mon 01-Apr-13 22:17:08

If he takes me to court which I think he may with the help of his horrid dad. They can offer a home,money & family support. There say I have depression & can't cope.

I no it's wrong but it's like I'm trapped. I just wanted him to change, change back to who he was.
I'm hearing he won't, thinking it will get worse now from what ppl have said.
I keep reminding myself of the bad stuff in hope to keep me strong

But you just say a little of what has happened and been said to you by your partner.
There are lots of people who will support you, and custody rarely goes to the father especially when they have not been the primary carer.

izzyizin Mon 01-Apr-13 22:43:04

Keep reminding yourself of 'the bad stuff'.

Tell it to the sw and the wa worker - and know that if SS think your dc are 'unsafe' it will because he poses a risk, a threat, to them, not you.

You're not going to 'lose everything' if he leaves. You can apply for housing benefit, income support/child support etc which will enable you to stay in your present home or you can look to rent elsewhere - maybe nearer to your dm if that's what you'd like to do. Your WA worker can advise and may be able to help you get secure social house through your local authority or a housing association.

As for taking you to Court 'with the help of his horrid dad', now we know where your h gets it from and if you take time to read through other threads on this board you'll understand why I wish I had £1 for every time an abusive twunt threatens to 'go to Court to get the kids off you' - yeah, right, and that's a herd of pigs flying past my window...

These twunts are all bluff and bluster; as if they'd want to cramp their style by having to be sahds. That's not where it's at for them, honey. It's just another example of the intimidation they use to perpetuate their abuse.

It's no wonder you're depressed - anyone who has to live under the jackboot of an abusive twunt is hardly going to be full of the joys of spring, are they? But you will be once you've got out from under.

izzyizin Tue 02-Apr-13 11:08:05

I shall be thinking of you today, Twinkle, and hoping you find the courage to tell the truth and shame the devil.

MadBraLady Tue 02-Apr-13 11:28:24

He wouldn't hurt the dc it's me I'm the trigger I guess. However to keep me he may try and take them

Twinkle i've been reading your thread from the start and thinking of you.

I'm sorry but I think he would hurt the DCs.

He sounds like exactly the sort of man who would hurt children from everything you have said. He threatens animals, he races the car with the DCs in it, he uses them as pawns to verbally attack you - they're not really people to him at all. Doesn't matter how "good" you think he's being with them now. If he thought harming them was to his advantage somehow I think he'd do it without a monent's thought - he already IS harming them by involving them in his abuse of you.

I think you need to stop assuming they're safe "because he loves them" right now.

Lueji Tue 02-Apr-13 11:39:32

I think he can hurt the children.
They are too small now and he might not hurt them near you, as he can hurt you directly, and hurting them might just the the trigger that would make you leave.

If you think there's the danger of abduction, then leave asap taking the children and with no warning.
That's what I did.

mummytime Tue 02-Apr-13 11:50:26

Your children do not need to have contact with him.

If the SS say you need to leave or they will take them away, they will also tell any court in the land why this is their professional opinion. It doesn't matter how good a lawyer he gets, SS will be listened to. Regardless if you have been the main carer they will remain with you.

However if you don't tell the truth and you stay with him, they may well decide the children are at risk.

Twinkletwinklestars Tue 02-Apr-13 17:39:23

Mummytime that's a good point thank u. Didn't think of it like that

Twinkletwinklestars Tue 02-Apr-13 17:47:12

He threated to let my dog run away unless I stayed a few times. Let it out in the road not hurt it himself.
I don't think he would take the children but wonder if his d would persuade him to get custody.

I don't no how he can say things to me and its like there stamped in my mind forever. Almost like I won't ask certain questions or act in different ways to please him.

I still thinking if the bad times. meeting wa this week. I'm trying to write stuff done to ask her.

olivia42 Tue 02-Apr-13 18:01:01

my dh threw me out of the house with my newborn 10day old baby (post cs)and 2 other dc age 7 and 9 and threw the moses basket out after us.he refused to give me the baby car seat saying he had paid for it i had to drive 30 miles to a house with no furniture in it overnight till he let us come back.he told me i was a useless bitch.i am reading these messages and cant believe how you cant see whats going on and realise that i am also that woman,its very sobering

cuillereasoupe Tue 02-Apr-13 18:18:05

I think writing it all down (somewhere he won't see it) is a very good idea twinkle.

Twinkletwinklestars Tue 02-Apr-13 18:35:40

Have been jotting stuff down on bits of paper here & there then hiding it. May just give her all the papers as I don't even think I will be able to read it all. Just thinking about it makes me feel all panicky
Olvia that's horrid I'm so sorry. There like addictive drugs, not matter how much I hurt its like I have to go back for more. Are you still with your dh/p?

If this isn't normal then I no I have to break the patteren for my dc.

tribpot Tue 02-Apr-13 19:20:40

Of course it isn't normal. However much he persuades you to the contrary you have a choice. We do not all live in fear of our DHs, or live under threats of having our children taken away from us.

This is the terrible curse that abused partners live under: I just wanted him to change, change back to who he was.

Can you see that logically it is much more likely that THIS is what he is, and the nice stuff was the honey to catch the fly? Why would he change back?

MadBraLady Tue 02-Apr-13 19:22:15

Giving the notes to the WA lady is an excellent idea. I'm pretty sure some people in the past have printed out their threads to show professionals as well, maybe that's an idea.

Twinkletwinklestars Tue 02-Apr-13 20:02:58

Thought about that but we don't have a printer. Not sure if I'm ready to tell her that much yet. & there's more so much more. I feel guilty & the thought of him having them talk to him makes me feel so sad for him. But still I no we must go through this & I will talk to wa. I'm not backing down if anything it's reassuring me that I'm not such s bad person if I'm worried for him.

Twinkletwinklestars Tue 02-Apr-13 20:07:48

Tribpot even ifs that's true I can't let myself think that. It's to painful don't think he could be that cruel. I think he's got lost along the way. I'm accepting he may never find his way back but I'm here if he wants to. His call

foolonthehill Tue 02-Apr-13 20:45:18

I'm away fro a few days twinkle, hope you stay strong, meet the WA and SW and get out of there in good time. I will be thinking of you.

have an unmumsnet (((((((hug)))))))

Twinkletwinklestars Tue 02-Apr-13 20:48:46

Thank u foolonthehill xx

Twinkletwinklestars Sat 06-Apr-13 19:40:38

Told wa lots of what's been happening. Will do again this week as my head is all muddled still. I no he probably won't stay me nice guy forever. Taking it one day at a time just for now. Still reminding myself of all the pain.

Anyone have any experiences with a programme called adapt? If we stay together or separate I really want us to do this. I need him to no how's he's got inside my head and left fear that I can't shake away.

Sw still has not finshed her assessment which is constantly on my mind. Anyone no if it normal takes so long

izzyizin Sat 06-Apr-13 20:18:46

When did you meet with the sw?

Twinkletwinklestars Sat 06-Apr-13 20:21:04

Over 2 wks ago

izzyizin Sat 06-Apr-13 20:37:55

Adapt is a programme based on the Duluth (Minnesota, USA) model run by the Hampton Trust which only operates in Hants/IOW and the Channel Islands.

Should he agree to seek a place on this or any other programme designed to rehabilitate abusers, I do hope you're not having ideas about attending sessions with him should he There is no us about this programme, Twinkle.

Twinkletwinklestars Sat 06-Apr-13 20:43:44

Not with him no but they explained we would have a couple of sessions together. That I would have some support along side him. Unsure if I should mention it to him. I don't want to do it to keep us together more so he can understand how I feel.

Do you think 2weeks is a long time to wait?

izzyizin Sat 06-Apr-13 20:49:42

Posted unedited text too soon!

Unless you live in one of the locations in which the Hampton Trust operates, you're best advised to enrol on the freedom programme which is facilitiated by Women's Aid.

As as a test of whether he has any desire to change his ways, let him source a programme such as those run by Respect or find other means by which to confront his issues.

Please be aware that programmes for perpetrators of domestic abuse/violence do not have high success rates and that no counsellor worthy of the title will offer joint counselling where one party has been subjected to physical assault by the other.

Twinkletwinklestars Sat 06-Apr-13 20:53:00


Someone else mentioned the freedom programme. Will try and find some info out about that.

izzyizin Sat 06-Apr-13 20:56:22

I would not expect you to have any 'sessions together' until such time as he has completed a programme for abusers and has satisfied the organisers that he has seen the error of his ways.

If it's proposed these sessions take place prior to his attendance on any such course, I would suggest enrol on a WA freedom programme, and leave him to source his own programmes/courses.

I strongly advise you not to mention any of this to him until such time as you've heard from the sw.

izzyizin Sat 06-Apr-13 20:57:27

As your WA worker when the next freedom programme is due to be held.

Twinkletwinklestars Sat 06-Apr-13 21:06:55

Ok thanks

I wondered if I could show the sw that were trying & realise there is a problem it may help.

izzyizin Sat 06-Apr-13 21:39:55

Unless you've left something out, he's not trying, is he?

He may be in 'nice' mode at the moment but this could be solely down to him being worried that you've speaking to 'someone' about his behaviour.

It's in your best interests to keep it that way as there's no telling how he might react if you reveal you've been talking to a sw about his abusive ways.

Get everything on record with WA and either get back to the sw and be completely honest with her or authorise your WA worker to put her in the picture, before you give any consideration to letting on to the twunt that his days of abusing you are over.

Twinkletwinklestars Mon 08-Apr-13 19:20:37

Can't beleive he found one of the bits of paper I had wrote on about us. Was in the bin, the outside bin due to be emptied just before he found it.
He kept reading it out to me, I got so upset & said to him now do you realise how you have hurt me.
He threaten to leave, I told him to go where's I normally cry to him to stay.
I said I had seen a counsellor didn't no what else to say. That's why I had wrote all these things down. Getting harder to not blurt out the truth I very nearly did as he was so upset. Also im feeling so on edge. He's still helping heaps. He's like a different person.

izzyizin Mon 08-Apr-13 19:29:06

You're feeling on edge because you know he won't be able to keep his 'different person' act up for long - the pressure of playing this role is building up in him and he'll blow sooner or later.

Have you got a meeting planned with your WA worker this week?

Twinkletwinklestars Mon 08-Apr-13 20:28:47

The sw making me feel on edge wish she would get back to me.

I really thought he would be angry about the fact I've been talking. He wasn't such a relief. Didn't feel like I was on eggshells today. He even said how he feels we really are working things out. He's been so sweet. He wants us to get some help

foolonthehill Mon 08-Apr-13 21:30:33

Oh ...Mr nice still going strong then? Glad for you but please don;t get sucked in by know he could have acted like this all along don;t you?...he just chose not to.

Glad you are still thinking and posting Twinkle.

Have you read Lundy bancroft "Why does he do that?" yet?
and the Freedom Programme is a good idea, and the group will likely be very supportive.

izzyizin Mon 08-Apr-13 21:43:17

'He wants us to get some help'

Please see above. If he's got any intention of changing his ways, he will seek help for himself and, until he has completed a programme for abusers, you are best advised not to attend any joint sessions of counselling or any other 'therapy' with him.

Twinkletwinklestars Tue 09-Apr-13 08:03:07

Will have a look at the book thanks foolonthehill.

I guess he's never really seemed like he would change before. Guess he's surprised me.

Why should I not attend with him? I don't think he will go on his own

izzyizin Tue 09-Apr-13 08:55:46

He hasn't changed, Twinkle.

Please read fool's response (above). This apparent 'change' into what he could have been all along is what an abuser does when they fear their victim may escape them.

As soon as he's suckered you back in and he's cut you off from sources of independent support and advice, he'll abuse you again - and he'll also be looking to punish you for having had, albeit briefly, the upper hand.

If he is genuinely sincere about changing his ways, he will seek help for his issues by himself without any prompting or assistance from you.

As has been said before, joint counselling is NOT recommended where one party has physically abused the other as a joint session may trigger further violence on the part of the abuser.

foolonthehill Tue 09-Apr-13 09:28:36

In joint counselling he will most likely twist it round to make you feel like you are the one at is a way of pushing you back into your obedient box..very confusing and very difficult to handle.

It's no good H being Mr Nice if he does not acknowledge what he was previously doing wrong (in detail and without you prompting him) apologising and dealing with it properly for himself.

Once again I remind are only responsible for your own behaviour and are not responsible or able to change anyone else's, least of all your H. Don't be fed the lie that you have the power to make him act in any way that he does not want are not that powerful!

Beware...he will use his "nice" against you as a bargaining chip...look what I am doing, what are you doing to improve/change/make us work.

Twinkletwinklestars Tue 09-Apr-13 13:40:12

I've just told him and wish I hadn't.

I had to as the sw wants to speak to him tomorrow. Don't no what to say to him about it. He's going to no I've said something

Twinkletwinklestars Tue 09-Apr-13 13:42:48

He wants to talk tonight I dont no what to say. Don't think I can hide the fact that I've spoken to them. Unsure if I should have the dc here tonight. May ask a friend to look after them.

showtunesgirl Tue 09-Apr-13 14:22:03

OP, you have to see that you are living in fear of this man. To the point that you are afraid of his reaction that you have spoken to someone else and also that you are so afraid that you have to get the children out of the way.

I would genuinely just leave. Now.

I really don't know what to say.
You've had some amazing advice on here (as always with MN) but you are still under the same roof as him.
As you've just said, you are still scared, you know this 'nice' act will NOT last.
Please get yourself and your poor DC out today.
Who knows how this chat will go later?
I think we all do!
He will try to manipulate you into saying certain things about certain situations to make sure they don't 'separate' you etc...
And... you will fall for it and go along with it and put yourself and your DC back into the same sorry, abusive situation you have all been in for years.
Reading all your posts, I really really fear for you and your DC.
You are here and posting because you KNOW that this is all wrong.
Get out and get out now!!!! Seriously - don't look back, don't re-think things, GET OUT!!!!!

foolonthehill Tue 09-Apr-13 19:45:47

1) You are not responsible for him
2) You do not owe him
3) You are responsible for yourself, your actions, reactions and your safety
4) You are responsible for your children, their upbringing, their models for the future and their current safety.

2 women a week are killed by their partner, none of them saw it coming...nearly all of them lived with domestic abuse beforehand.

The children of these women end up in care...their mother dead, their father in prison.

You probably don;t want to believe you could be one of those women, but your head knows he is not trustworthy, patient, kind or reliable. Your head knows you cannot be yourself around him, cannot speak or act freely and that you need to consider keeping your DC away tonight.

If it crosses your mind then they should be out of there and so should you.

He can still reform himself without your presence and you can remain safe and look on from a distance.

Don;t give in to his lies, don;t give in to his story that you somehow deserve this, you don't. No One does.

Twinkletwinklestars Tue 09-Apr-13 20:37:03

It's hard to read that and think that could be him. It's easer I guess not to

He's threw me because he won't talk about it or anything. It's been a tense silence.
He's said goodnight gave me a cuddle & gone to bed.
I need to fed our dd in an hour so think I will stay downstairs until then.

Twinkletwinklestars Wed 10-Apr-13 20:28:07

Should have listened, you were all right.

MadBraLady Wed 10-Apr-13 20:28:38

sad You ok, Twinkle?

Twinkletwinklestars Wed 10-Apr-13 20:32:07

No and I have brought it all on myself.

Feel like I'm bri

showtunesgirl Wed 10-Apr-13 20:44:09

What's happened OP?

MadBraLady Wed 10-Apr-13 20:54:31

Are you safe at the moment?

Twinkletwinklestars Wed 10-Apr-13 21:13:33

I had the silent treatment, then the anger. Constant questioning for 2 hours which has been awful. I can't think properly and he knows it. Keeps asking again and again what I've said. Putting words into my mouth. He's telling me that I make things out to be worse then they are. He said I've made out to people he's a bad person and its me. He has people that will say hes a good man. It's never as bad as i make out and I'm not blameless. I no I'm not blameless.

Twinkletwinklestars Wed 10-Apr-13 21:14:42

Yes I'm safe he's gone to bed now. I'm downstairs feeding.

MadBraLady Wed 10-Apr-13 21:17:42

You ARE blameless, Twinkle.

He is the one deciding to behave abusively. Again.

Shlurpbop Wed 10-Apr-13 21:18:33

Please leave Twinkle, for you and your children.
None of you should live like this.

MadBraLady Wed 10-Apr-13 21:20:04

Can you call your WA worker first thing tomorrow and tell her you don't feel safe and need to get out with the kids? Please? He's retaking control, he's muddling you up again, you need to get out while your head is still relatively clear.

PLEASE, Twinkle.

babyradio Wed 10-Apr-13 21:22:25

You are blameless, actually. He's the one who has to cause fear in someone else in order to feel powerful.

Please listen to the other posters who have said to leave. It will not get better.

Lueji Wed 10-Apr-13 21:27:48

Please do make use of the SW's visit and get in touch with WA too.
He's likely to make it hell for you, even more, now. sad

Twinkletwinklestars Wed 10-Apr-13 21:44:11

Will call wa in morning and tell her everything.

It's my word against his. He keeps saying its me. he has good respectable ppl to say what a great man he is. He has money and I'm terrified he will try and take the dc. He says I'm crazy I think he may say I'm a bad mum. I'm so scared of losing my dc that's why I have stayed. I'm not ignoring the advice I'm just scared. The only way I can see he won't try and take them from me is if I stay and stand by him. My heads a mess

MadBraLady Wed 10-Apr-13 21:56:03

He just spouts this bullshit to confuse the issues.

If the SW is onside with you, it doesn't matter how much money he has or how many "respectable people" he lines up (and he won't anyway, because it's all hot air). You're the main carer, and have been since they were born, right?

To get the SW onside, first step is tell WA the whole truth, say you want to protect your dc and are scared of losing them, say you want to get away from him. See what they say, but I think they will be able to reassure you about the dc. They will tell you what to do next.

Twinkletwinklestars Wed 10-Apr-13 22:12:00

He does confuse me he makes me feel like I'm going mad.

I will do once he's gone in morning.

He said the sw is really nice and that she knows he has nothing to hide. He is asking me questions as he needs to be prepared. Im hoping its just talk but I no he is going to say I'm crazy. It's not him but me.
I have lied to sw about him tho, to try and cover up for him. Im such a idiot, don't no why I did it. Going to call her 1st thing and tell her.

He's a prat

I've always looked after the dc he wouldn't have a clue.

Lueji Wed 10-Apr-13 23:03:44

Could you tape some of his abusive behaviours?
There are digital noise activated recorders that you can use, even your mobile.

However, I suspect that as soon as you leave and cut contact, he'll be forced into putting his behaviour to e-mails and messages.

foolonthehill Wed 10-Apr-13 23:09:31

He is wrong
People will believe you

My H was an upstanding member of the community, artistic, involved "Mr Nice" to everyone except me and DC

people still believed me, because i told the truth

he got caught out in his lies and deceit

Stay safe twinkle
trust your instincts
trust the truth will come out


babyradio Wed 10-Apr-13 23:15:56

The social worker probably has the measure of him. They see it a lot and they aren't stupid. But they do need you to tell them the facts so that they can do their job. Nobody is going to take your children away from you for admitting that you are frightened of this man and seeking help.

Be brave, you can absolutely do it. He's shitting himself and that's why he's playing the big man with all this about his 'respectable friends', trying to make it seem like they will obviously believe him over you. They won't.

You lied to the social worker because you are frightened. Tell her that.

I've been following this thread but kept quiet because I felt other posters were doing a better job of advising you than I could - but I felt the need to add my voice to support you because I can't bear the thought of any woman living in fear like this.

Jux Thu 11-Apr-13 00:15:53

Yes, do phone the sw in the morning. Among all the other things, tell her he kept you up questioning you for 2 hours. She'll know that this, too, is something abusers do haitually.

You can do this. Try not to be scared of the sw or of wa. Tell them both the truth, as much as you can remember. Tell them you are scared of him. As you know, they want desperately to help you and your children.

Twinkletwinklestars Fri 12-Apr-13 19:09:57

Need to be quick bit the sw has suggested we try counselling. Not keen because of the advice I've had on her about it....,

foolonthehill Fri 12-Apr-13 22:46:18

your SW is clearly of the opinion that this is a "relationship issue" pound to a penny she is either newly seconded to children's services or not understanding what lies behind what you are telling her.

Talk to WA...they will understand.

Don;t do couples counselling.
This is not a relationship issue
it is an abuse issue

katrinefonsmark Fri 12-Apr-13 23:09:26

Your social worker doesn't understand. You must not do couples counselling.couples counselling is dangerous when it involves an abusive man because it gives him excuses for his behaviour. Focus on leaving and getting help from Women's Aid.

Twinkletwinklestars Sat 13-Apr-13 06:31:49


She wants to see me again. I will mention it.

This is what he said had been discussed with him. I did wonder if it was right.

MadBusLady Sat 13-Apr-13 09:50:44

sad Nope, she doesn't understand what's going on. (Or maybe you haven't told her everything?)

However, don't waste your time arguing with the SW. Talk to Women's Aid and get advice on how to leave.

Twinkletwinklestars Sat 13-Apr-13 11:17:29

I'm unsure what the sw knows I've not told her everything as someone else contacted her.

I susspose that's his version maybe she said differently. Think he may have charmed her tho. But also feel he is worried by her.

foolonthehill Sat 13-Apr-13 12:10:41

Both is probably true.

he will have turned on the charm (if he is practised it is hard not to be taken in) and she will not have a full picture if the info came from others than yourself...but of course he will be unsettled/worried about her. his control is slipping. that is why so many people have increased their expressions of concern for your safety...we don't know (and BTW neither do you) what he would do to regain that control. how much is thought through and how much is reactive.

Twinkle, I feel like you are going around with your eyes only half open waiting for a magic moment when you get permission to leave and to keep you and DC safe.

You do know that no-one can or will make you leave. If it is the right thing to do (and i, as you know, think it is) it is decision that you have to make for yourself. Others in RL and on here can advise, support and help you. But you have to make the move, only you can reach out and regain your life.

Lueji Sat 13-Apr-13 14:25:46

Wait until you talk with the SW.
She may well have asked if he'd consider counselling, or tell him that he should go.

Don't trust what he said. Firstly because he's abusive, but also because he's retelling and misunderstandings can easily occur.

Twinkletwinklestars Wed 17-Apr-13 14:37:01

We're apart, he's made no effort to find out about counselling.

Thanks for the replys, foolonthehill thank u. I never thought about reactive etc. also your right about the eyes half open.

Feeling exhausted by everything at the mo.

One other question do your dh/p tell you they will cheat on you unless you have sex with them when they want?

showtunesgirl Wed 17-Apr-13 14:39:31

No, good God no! No, my DH does NOT blackmail me into having sex with him. shock

So where are you now OP?

Jux Wed 17-Apr-13 21:02:32

Good God no! Absolutely not. That would be utterly disgraceful; if dh were to even hint he were thinking like that, I'd tell him to leave, and go straight down to a solicitor. No one would blame me, either.

Is that something else this little shit does?

When you say "We're apart", do you mean you are no longer with him, no longer in the same house?

I hope you're OK.

But I also want to cheer!

Twinkletwinklestars Wed 17-Apr-13 21:56:32

He's not staying with us for a while.

Yeah he said he didn't realise how it upset me & I felt like I had too.

Always before he was having a night out so he wouldn't cheat hmm
Also if he had a headances he would say that's the only cure so anytime day/night whenever he had one. The headances thing was a few yes back used that reason for at least a yr. I'm looking back at things now & thinking if that was normal.

Twinkletwinklestars Wed 17-Apr-13 22:10:02

Excuse poor grammar

Jux Wed 17-Apr-13 23:03:47

Good, well done.

I'm sorry, but how can any decent man "not realise" that blackmailing and threatening someone into having sex is upsetting? I mean, really? In fact, it is rape. Perhaps it's time he "realised" that at least. You can report him for it.

He's lying to you.

You have been horribly bullied, abused for a long time, you poor love.

What sort of support do you have in rl? Are you still talking to WA? Can you get onto a Freedom Programme, or at least some NHS counselling? Perhaps if you went to your gp, told what has been going on and ask for some counselling? I think you definitely need help in rl, firstly for the initial period of him being elsewhere, and secondly to help you set good boundaries, so that you don't ever wind up being treated like this again and to ensure your children are protected too.

He will probably try to crawl back in soon. He won't have done anything like looking at counselling, but he will happily lie to you about it. He will make lots of lovely promises, but he won't keep them. He will try to make you feel guilty - how much he misses the children (the ones he can't quite manage to look after), how much he luuuuuuurves you, how he understands what he did wrong (getting caught?) and so on.

Don't listen to a word of it. Don't let him in the house. Don't answer his phone calls or texts. If he turns up, call the police. Seriously. He will be more dangerous now.

Protect your children and protect yourself.

Keep posting.

Twinkletwinklestars Fri 19-Apr-13 20:34:04

He's back for weekend, it's fine.
We did this last weekend too, spent it out & about with the dc.

We have been thinking about this for a while. Spending weekends together for the dc but not weekdays.

I've had counselling before that's who he thinks made the complaint to ss.
I thought about asking for some again.

Twinkletwinklestars Fri 19-Apr-13 20:39:39

In my head I'm waiting for the ss report I think. I think then I may ask for some help.

One things for sure I understand how hurting me however small is not right. It won't happen again ever, I asked him if it made him feel good blackmailing me. He said its because he loves me & wants me. Didn't suck me in this time.

Jux Sat 20-Apr-13 11:29:54

Well done, Twinkle. It's a huge step when your eyes open and you can see the hollowness and twisted logic in what an abuser says and not get sucked in by it.

More counselling sounds like a good idea. I think you need as much rl support as you can get. Posting here is good, many people find it really helpful and I hope you do too, but nothing beats real life! If you have support here and in rl you will never look back!

Why do you think you need to wait for SS report? Do you need rl validation? The woman from WA will give you that; also the counsellor. Do you think that some little part of you is hoping that SS will say it's all OK? It's normal to want to maintain the staus quo, but it isn't always healthy to do so.

I'm not getting at you, just think that you might find it helpful to ask yourself those questions. You don't have to answer me, but be as honest with yourself as you can.

Keep it up, Twinkle. You are doing really well, being very strong.

foolonthehill Sat 20-Apr-13 11:51:11

twinkle you have made great strides and have been very brave.

Please realise that you can't fix him therefore you can't have a normal relationship with him.

Get all the help you can and remember why you asked him to go, they were very good reasons.

Don't let down your guard, there will be times when you feel very lonely, there will be times when you feel very tired, there will be times when you just want him back. Try not to give in because it will get worse and be harder to get him out next time. His expectations of a relationship all revolve around him, his wants, his desires his needs. Read some of the threads about good relationships on will see what you SHOULD have, and could have maybe in the future.

well done, well done. I know it is hard.

Twinkletwinklestars Sat 20-Apr-13 19:18:12

Yeah I am sure there say its ok or it's me not him It's him alright, can't stand him here. Asked him, pleaded with him not to drink no chance out comes the case. Like most of you said. Normally I would think well were had a nice family afternoon good of him to give up his time. But nope now I'm thinking so u should give up your time for our dc. Also I've said I don't want him to drink because I'm scared of him & he will be hungover and horrid tomorrow morn! Drink in the week when were not around but he can't because he can't handle his job on a hangover! Bulls to us! He's making me angry I don't normally get angry.

Twinkletwinklestars Sat 20-Apr-13 19:21:33

Oh and I'm controlling him by saying I don't want him to drink at weekends. I think he may have even said that to sw!

foolonthehill Sat 20-Apr-13 20:03:18

Get him out of there drinking, no cosy family [
pretending everything is ok. It's not, he's not and you are not. The only way he will believe what you say is if he really thinks he's lost you...just now he's got his foot so far in the door he's practically 9and actually sitting at your table). Come on girl. you've gone half way. Do the rest. It truly will be easier in the end.

Jux Sat 20-Apr-13 20:56:10

If he's drinking to night, are you safe? Please keep your phone with you all the time, even when you go to the loo, and if he starts just phone 999. Intimidating, threatening, all that stuff is abuse and the police can remove him. Particularly if it's in front of children but also if there are children in the house, even if they're asleep.

Twinkletwinklestars Sat 20-Apr-13 21:07:29

He has no where to go, he pays rent.
Don't have energy to disagree tonight. Im always wrong anyway.

I'm ok, use to it, upstairs dc with me I won't sleep. Can normally stay awake all night when he is like it. He's ok at the mo. I will call police if he starts can't stand him. He couldn't give me some money towards nappies but can spend the same amount on alcohol.

Jux Sat 20-Apr-13 23:09:07

He is truly shocking.

He can go to wherever it is he goes during the week, but it's not your problem where he goes.

Have you checked how much you're entitled to claim on HB, etc? You may find that with the CSA and other payments/discounts you have enough money to manage without him perfectly well.

Would your landlord change the tenancy into your name?

For the moment, use the time to gather important documents - passports, driving licence, etc - but especially bank statements and especially his, and take copies. Keep it all in a safe place. You will find it really useful in the future.

Look after yourself and then you can continue to look after ds. Be careful.

Twinkletwinklestars Sun 21-Apr-13 07:22:15

Ok will do, bank statements wouldn't have a clue where to look. He would go mad at me if he found out. How come I need them?

I wouldn't get the tenancy he works and pays it I don't. He has the money I don't

Jux Sun 21-Apr-13 10:56:50

Oh well, if you can't find them, you can't. And yes, he would be angry if he knew you were looking, but then he gets angry at most things doesn't he?

In a 'normal' (ie, non-abusive) relationship both people usually know the financial details of the household, even iwhen they're not the one earning. It is household money, for the family. Do you have any input into what money is spent on and how much? Do you have access to the bank account? Or do you have to ask him when you need money?

I was probably jumping the gun a bit anyway, and assuming you would be separating officially. He has to pay maintenance, so having bank statements is quite useful as many non-residents parents lie when it comes to sorting out financial stuff on separation.

Twinkletwinklestars Sun 21-Apr-13 13:46:30

Wouldn't have a clue about money
Don't no what he earns, how much bills are etc.

I never ask for money unless I really need something for dc or need petrol for anything to do with dc. Hate asking for anything. He always says he doesn't have enough money to support us. I often have to ask others for money on his behalf. He puts lots of pressure on me. Don't have access to accounts other then my own. I get the cb in my account.

Twinkletwinklestars Sat 27-Apr-13 09:08:56

Every Friday he drives my ds in the morning. He drinks lots the night before and point blank refuses to let me drive. He also insists he's not over the limit anymore. I'm not so sure. How would I find out? It's very differcult as he won't listen to me. He will just storm out with my ds. He will scare me.what can I do? Thought about calling the police but if he found out he would be so angry and I'm scared of what he would do.

Been talking to wa and am meeting up with them again. I can't stand him he will never change. He says he will leave for good once he's found a flat. Don't think I can wait that long. Can't wait for him to go.

Jux Sat 27-Apr-13 12:41:26

I think that the next time he scares you, you should just call the police. intimidation is emotional abuse.

Twinkletwinklestars Fri 03-May-13 18:23:57

Need to start a new thread now were separated, what I do now.
One things for sure the pressure of him not being here is lovely. Calm atmosphere not use to it smile

MadBusLady Fri 03-May-13 19:04:04

Hi Twinkle, I'm so pleased you're feeling the difference already! Did he find a flat and go?

If you haven't done it already, make an appointment with your local CAB (search box on right). They will take you through what happens with regards benefits/tax credits etc.

Have you seen WA again? They are probably best placed to point you towards local solicitors etc for getting a settlement drawn up.

Twinkletwinklestars Sat 04-May-13 14:38:37

Thanks mad bra lady.
No he's living in a nice place rent free!

Don't no what happens now really. Just try and find somewhere to live I guess. My landlord can't just evict us can he?

Any advice on how to explain it to dc? It's hard having him cry for him all the time

Twinkletwinklestars Sun 21-Jul-13 08:31:02

Just when I start to feel sorry for him I read this again.

Thanks so much for all advice

Still apart grin never going back grin
It's tough but not as tough as living with him.

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