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this is wrong, isn't it?

(88 Posts)
vieniqua Mon 25-Mar-13 11:42:40

History is that since having ds nearly 10 years ago, dh and I have had relationship problems. While pregnant, sex was uncomfortable and I completely lost all desire.

To be honest, I never got it back completely and it's been the cause of many rows, sulking, being told that I humiliate him and reject him. I am told that we never have sex (even though we probably average once every 10 days)

The other night, I was apparantly lying in bed like a piece of wood and not responding to his advances. He rolled over and was cold to me for 2 days. This happens every few months.

Then he says to me that to make it all ok, I have to promise to respond to his advances every time, even if I don't feel like it. An alarm bell has been ringing in my head ever since and I feel like that's all he wants me for.

His argument is that he wants lots of sex with me because he loves me and desires me. He says he is so affectionate, where lots of men he knows aren't with their wives, so I should be grateful. He says I show him no affection (I don't agree with this) and I humiliate him by not being interested in sex with him every time he wants to.

We've been having the same arguement for 10 years and we never resolve anything. We should call it a day shouldn't we? I can't make my libido return and he won't accept a relationship without constant sex.

I'm losing all respect for him and feel that he needs to be with someone who can fulfil all his desires. I'm so tired of the same arguments, but feel sad for my children if this may be the reason why they can't live with their father.

If anyone can help clear my head that would be great.

Lucyellensmum95 Mon 25-Mar-13 11:56:09

He said that you have to respond every time? yuck that would be a turn off in itself - is he controlling in other parts of the relationship?

vieniqua Mon 25-Mar-13 12:14:08

No, just in this area, which is why I don't know if he is a controller/abuser. Maybe it's insecurity? It is a turn off and that's exactly how I feel... yuk.

Thanks for replying.

vieniqua Mon 25-Mar-13 12:35:58

Just musing to myself really, as it helps to write it down, but he also says I pretend to have various ailments to get out of sleeping with him. I sometimes have pms headaches, or really sore neck/shoulders. Very genuine.

Also, that he's been in a marriage before where he no longer felt attraction, but repulsion even at the thought of being touched by his ex. Could he be projecting?
Thanks if you have some advice for me!

pigsDOfly Mon 25-Mar-13 12:35:58

Not sure about the loving you bit. If he loves you and feels affection for you, surely he'd be looking for ways to overcome your reluctance in a more 'loving' way rather than putting demands on you and telling you what you must promise.

If you feel absolutely sure this is the only controlling aspect of his personality, then perhaps you need to look into some sort of counselling and communication between you in order to save your relationship.

Looking at it from his point of view, it probably is hurtful that you never want to have sex with him, but with his attitude that isn't surprising really.

Have you tried talking to him about why you feel this way when you're both fully dressed and away from the bedroom?

Have you considered that perhaps you just don't feel a spark with him any more, in which case perhaps it is time to call it a day.

Well it's no wonder you don't want to have sex with him is it?

Does he not understand that by pressuring into agreeing to sex whenever and wherever he wants it is only likely to put you off altogether?

How is the rest of the relationship?

Have you thought about counseling, to try and work through this? Do you want to work through it?

VanitasVanitatum Mon 25-Mar-13 12:47:17

Try couples therapy? This must be very hard for both of you, of course he was really wrong to suggest you should do it whether you want to or not. I would think that the relationship can't go on with this lack of communication.

vieniqua Mon 25-Mar-13 13:00:11

Thank you for replying. Dh won't go to counselling because he sees it as my problem only.

Tantrums, I do want to work through it. I'm just not sure it's possible. PigsDofly, I've tried talking to him, but he sees my lack of desire as something personal. I know it's just me and I have just lost it.

I have a lot of difficulty communicating with him, because he refuses to see my point of view. It's all about him and his rejection which equals me not loving him.

He knows I have little desire, he just wants me and I'm not sure that he cares if I'm not enjoying it. (that sounds so bad now I've "said" it out loud). It just feels like he doesn't care anyway.

I should try counselling by myself perhaps?

Thank you for all replies. It helps to get someone else's thoughts, as I don't feel able to talk about this in RL. I'm so confused and at a loss right now.

hellsbells76 Mon 25-Mar-13 13:04:22

So, basically he wants to rape you? And not only that, he's putting pressure on you to accept that rape is inevitable in advance, and even to pretend to be into it. What a charmer. Run.

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 25-Mar-13 13:05:36

'Lie back and think of England'?.... of course it's wrong on every possible level. IME (and I'm a big fan of sex) when I've gone off it in any substantial way, it is almost always that I'm with the wrong bloke. After 10 years I think you might have to reach the same conclusion.

vieniqua Mon 25-Mar-13 13:11:01

That sounds like something I didn't want to admit to hellsbells, is it really that bad, or is he just desperate to have me like I was when I met him (normal libido)?

Deep deep deep down I think I do want to run, but I'd want to run to my family who live a long way away. It means running with a suitcase only and it means the children couldn't have regular contact with him.

I've thought about running, but feel so sad for the dc. I'm so conflicted and confused.

vieniqua Mon 25-Mar-13 13:16:40

I think I have reached that conclusion Cogito which is why I'm so sad. I suppose dh has reached this conclusion too and didn't know what else to do.

I just don't know what on earth I could say to the children? How can they not blame me for taking them away from their father? I feel so selfish.

hellsbells76 Mon 25-Mar-13 13:17:45

Well, in your own words "I have to promise to respond to his advances every time, even if I don't feel like it". Sounds very much like rape to me. And what sort of inadequate shit wants sex with a woman who doesn't want it with him? A rapist, that's who. Sorry, but I think it's that bad.

SoupDreggon Mon 25-Mar-13 13:19:18

Have you ever examined why your libido has vanished?

At the moment, you have two opposite ends of a problem - he expects you to have sex when he wants it, you expect him to have sex when you want it. Neither are right.

If you want to stay in the relationship, there needs to be a middle ground.

I wouldn't say he wants to rape you - that would depend on whether he pushed on regardless of you saying no.

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 25-Mar-13 13:20:09

"I just don't know what on earth I could say to the children? How can they not blame me for taking them away from their father? I feel so selfish. "

There's no 'taking away'. Couples grow apart all the time and it's no sin. So you have the world's crappiest marriage.... you can still be the world's best divorcees and the world's best parents. Approach this positively and your DCs will thrive. Stay trapped together and your DCs will know it's a big fat lie.

SoupDreggon Mon 25-Mar-13 13:21:22

Do you want to have sex with anyone or is it just him?

That's disgusting shock

if one person in the relationship is having problems with their sex drive, it's pretty common knowledge (and common sense) that coercing them into sex using demands/guilt trips is the best way to turn them off.

vieniqua Mon 25-Mar-13 13:27:19

Thanks soupdragon, no he wouldn't continue if I said stop, I'm sure of that. When it seems smooth, we have an average of once a week to 10 days, which I thought was a good compromise.

In arguments it comes out that it's not enough and he often says "there's no sex in our marriage". Of course this makes me mad, because there absolutely is.

I've often wondered if my libido vanished because of his attitude, but I think it's physical, as it come back (not to the same extent as pre dc) when I ovulate.

About a month after giving birth to dc1, he made me speak to the gp about it and she gave me some eostrogen cream, which didn't really work. I've never been so embarrassed! He conveniently forgets this when he accuses me of not doing anything about it. Is there another way I could examine why it vanished, do you mean counselling?

vieniqua Mon 25-Mar-13 13:29:19

I don't want to have sex with anyone right now, just feel tired all the time and couldn't be bothered. Sad but true.

hellsbells76 Mon 25-Mar-13 13:30:16

Jesus Christ - who the hell thinks not wanting sex a month postpartum is a GP-worthy problem? And why didn't your GP tell him to fuck off and accept that you'd JUST GIVEN BIRTH instead of giving you some bloody cream? I don't think your lack of libido is the real problem here, but the vile attitude of your partner certainly is. Ignoring you for 2 days because you turned him down? Calling you a 'piece of wood'? He's revolting. Why the hell would you want to shag someone who treats you like that? Your children will be fine if you leave him - they'll be a lot happier growing up in a house where their father doesn't believe he has a right to his wife's body whenever he feels like it, and treats her like crap (in a way that will be affecting the whole family) if he doesn't get it.

vieniqua Mon 25-Mar-13 13:30:56

Thanks Cogito, but I know the kids would only be able to see him a couple of times a year. I'd want to go where my family is if I'm not with him. The only reason I'm here is because of dh's work.

vieniqua Mon 25-Mar-13 16:35:06

Thanks hellsbells, when you put it like that...... it's just that the kids don't know he treats me like that..... but I know we can't go on like this. How can I speak to dh so he doesn't get all defensive and angry? Or make him change his attitude towards sex in a relationship?

He says the sole problem is that I'm just not attracted to him and I should show him that I am attracted to him, otherwise he thinks he's proved his point. I just feel resentful, and feel that this is all he thinks or cares about.

Although it's partly my fault, he won't take any responsibility himself. If I talk about how it started when I was pregnant, he'll say that's history and it's now that matters. We've had this conversation a million times.

I just can't forget the past, but I know I need to move on from it. But how?

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 25-Mar-13 16:45:06

"How can I speak to dh so he doesn't get all defensive and angry?"

Say exactly what you want to say. If he gets aggressive because he can't deal with the information that is entirely his choice to do so. NEVER couch what you need to say in order to keep the peace. That just means the bully carries on getting their own way ...

Also, don't even entertain the idea that this is partly your fault because he'll sniff weakness, sense doubt and clobber you over the head with it.... the way he's done 'a million times' by the sound of it.

Stand up for yourself. You cannot change his attitude. You can only change your response to it.

ForeverRuminating Mon 25-Mar-13 16:56:20

It's not really clear if you love and want to stay with your DH and this is your only issue, but I will assume you do as I give my opinion.

I come from the perspective of being the one with the greater sex drive. My husband would probably be happy with once a month if it was left to him, whereas I would ideally like it twice a week. I've told him I'm willing to compromise to somewhere in between. I have tried everything to encourage him to want more sex. I find it incredibly frustrating and hurtful when he refuses. You say your DH thinks you fake illness to get out of sex, and I have accused my husband of doing the same.

If you love your husband and want to make your marriage work, I think you should be prepared to compromise or at least show some effort in trying to regain your sex drive. I bought a Tracy Cox book, which has some great advice about how to tackle a partner having a lower sex drive. Perhaps if you bought a book like this, your husband might feel you want to try to change things and you may find some helpful tips? This will no doubt go down like a lead balloon here but one of the things it says (and I'm praphrasing) is that if you don't really feel like sex, try and do it anyway! Having sex increases the sex drive as the more you have the more you want. Orgasm from masturbation has the same effect of making you want more sex.

The thing that I find most hurtful is when my husband won't make any effort to tackle his low libido, by seeing the doctor, reading the ruddy Tracy Cox book etc. If he at least tried to change things I might feel there is hope of improvement and be a bit less stressed about not having sex so frequently - perhaps your husband might be more understanding and back off a bit if he knew you were trying to improve things?

Your husband's ultimatums etc are not helpful, but I understand why he does it. I've done the same, even though I know it is futile and has the opposite of desired effect! It is a very frustrating position to be in. It's horrible to be the one doing all the initiating, and makes one feel very unattractive.

You say when you spoke to the doctor you had never been so embarrassed - I don't think it's usual for someone to feel like that, particularly when speaking to a female doctor. I can't help wondering if you have some past issues, upbringing etc which have left you a little repressed and uncomfortable discussing sex? Maybe some counselling might be helpful for you to confront this.

I hope you work things out.

vieniqua Mon 25-Mar-13 17:10:02

Thank you cogito, I will try to follow your advice tonight. I just wish we could resolve this once and for all. I want to be with dh, but only if he doesn't have this attitude if that makes sense. It seems selfish and uncaring. I just want him to act like he cares about me. I do understand though that I'm sure he feels the same.....

Interesting Forever. The thing is, I feel that I do compromise. So many times I'm having sex and it doesn't feel good to me and i just want it over. I do try to do it even when I don't feel like it, but that makes me feel like a robot and used and he must know I'm not enjoying it. That's what makes me feel so sad, that he doesn't care that I do compromise, this is not enough.

I'm confused and think it would be better if we weren't together, we can't resolve this. If it weren't for the dc, I would just leave, but I don't want to ruin their world, so I want to try to work this out.

Hope I'm making sense. Thanks to all of you for taking the time to think about this for me.

Lueji Mon 25-Mar-13 17:15:33

Is it really a loss of sex drive, or is sex with him the problem?

I know I did start avoid having sex with ex at some point, particularly as he felt so entitled to it, and there were other issues. However, my sex drive can be just as high as it had always been, and it was then.

Is he capable of affection without it leading to sex?

How is your relationship otherwise (just answer to yourself, if you don't want here).

Lueji Mon 25-Mar-13 17:16:20

And if you are tired, is he contributing enough?

Helltotheno Mon 25-Mar-13 17:18:12

Hellsbells76 is right, the problem here is that this guy is just a shit with a bad personality, it's nothing to do with sex. Even reading your OP makes me feel like slapping him figuratively.

I suggest you calmly tell him that the two of you don't want the same thing but you want to make a co-parenting arrangement work for the sake of the kids and respect him enough to give that a go. Then tell him he's free to leave.

Please don't feel you have to spend the rest of your life putting up with this twattery. Dude's not doing that badly getting sex every ten days and lots of men would tell you that. Don't be held to ransom for the rest of your life by this idiot's neediness. If you feel you can salvage a friends thing, you're better off doing that now. You'd have a much easier life.

moonabove Mon 25-Mar-13 17:23:44

You've mentioned counselling for yourself a couple of times and I think that's a good idea. If nothing else it might give you some resources for communicating with dh and building your confidence.

Going by your posts he does sound pretty unpleasant - it's completely wrong to just demand sex and say you don't even care if your partner doesn't enjoy it, that's so cold and creepy. Maybe you should tell him to at least try to be caring and loving even if he doesn't feel it!

vieniqua Mon 25-Mar-13 17:30:54

I'm taking 2 classes with the idea of starting work soon. I've been a sahm since ds was born. I feel dh contributes enough, and I don't know exactly why I'm so tired, I don't think I should be and have had blood tests to find out why, but nothing came up.

I think it's a loss of sex drive altogether, not just personal to dh. I just don't feel like I want it the way I used to. He's not really capable of affection without it leading to sex, he says he gets so turned on by me.... I don't know what to think of that, he says it's a compliment, it just doesn't feel like that to me..... maybe I have to change my thoughts on this.

My relationship is good when dh is having sex once a week. If it goes on longer, he starts to help less around the house (at the weekend when he's able to help), speaks without smiling, won't do anything nice for me. Far from ideal. He says if I wanted to have sex more, he'd be super sweet and nice all the time.

So most of the time we go along smoothly, but every few months, the sex decreases for a bit for one reason or another, and we have these huge breakdowns.

Helltotheno Mon 25-Mar-13 17:40:01

He says if I wanted to have sex more, he'd be super sweet and nice all the time.

Nice people don't say things like that, they really don't.
He gets turned on by you because you're a convenient orifice. Sorry to be blunt OP but there's a way of showing love to someone, and you would know if he was showing love as opposed to having sex on you. It doesn't feel like a compliment to you because it simply isn't one.

Can't stress how much I think you should dump him. It sounds to me like you're tired partly because of all this and it's actually depressing you.

vieniqua Mon 25-Mar-13 17:46:19

Helltotheno, that's how I feel deep down, I know it because your post just made me suddenly burst into tears. It's just so hard when you've got 13 years of history. I don't know where to begin....

Helltotheno Mon 25-Mar-13 17:51:12

Sorry OP, I didn't mean for my post to upset you sad
I'm just very cross on your behalf about those things he's said because they're controlling and manipulative, no two ways about that.

Have you thought about how the logistics would be if you were to split up? Is he a good dad?

Jux Mon 25-Mar-13 17:58:49

You won't get your libido back because you don't want to sleep with a selfish tosspot.

When you are with a man who respects you, is affectionate, is interested in you, talks to you and is kind, helpful and fun, en your libido may well surprise you.

vieniqua Mon 25-Mar-13 18:02:14

He's not a great dad, no. He cares about the dc, but not hands on, doesn't ever play with them. He says it's because he's so tired from work, but even at the weekends, he doesn't ever involve them in anything. He's never ever done a bedtime.

The thing is though, I'm from somewhere very far away and don't think I could stay here if I'm not with him so I'd be separating the dc from him, which is what I'm struggling with (even though he's not a hands on dad, my dd feels very attached to him, ds not so much).

It's not the first time I've considered leaving him, but the logistics are difficult. I could always stay here, but I miss my family and feel sad that my parents and siblings can't be near the dc. They have a great bond. I'm very confused and don't know what's for the best, I have to keep thinking about it.

Thank you for replying to me, it's helping me clarify everything.

vieniqua Mon 25-Mar-13 18:09:20

Jux, what you're saying is true, but when things are smooth, he'll do anything for me and is kind and helpful.

He says that when he's not "satisfied" (for want of a better word) then he feels I don't love him so he withdraws his affection and goes cold. He wants me to be constantly showing him that I love him, which I understand to a certain degree, but it's very hard work, especially when you have kids who need attention and love too.....

I'm sure this sounds bad, and that good men understand that dc take up your attention. i just don't know any different really, but my friends' husbands seem much more caring and good with their dc.

SoupDreggon Mon 25-Mar-13 18:19:11

Random questions to think about:

What was it like before children?
If you could go back there (with children), would you want to?
Would you want to go back there with him?
What needs to change about him? Apart from him not behaving like a complete wanker, obviously.
If those things changed, would you still want to be with him?

MysteriousHamster Mon 25-Mar-13 18:19:56

Once a week to ten days is great OP. It's not tonnes, but I bet it's pretty near the true average (okay just what I guess going by anecdotes!). He probably wouldn't be happy if you were doing it twice as often.

mcmooncup Mon 25-Mar-13 18:23:30

OP, I assure you there is nothing wrong with your sex drive.
You just don't like having sex with twats.

Coerced sex is awful for your self worth, your post about 'compromise' makes me want to screeeeeaaaaam. You must NEVER have sex 'to keep the peace' ever again. You deserve more. Logistics can be sorted, staying in a marriage like this forever will lose you completely eventually.

expatinscotland Mon 25-Mar-13 18:28:00

'He's not really capable of affection without it leading to sex, he says he gets so turned on by me.... I don't know what to think of that, he says it's a compliment, it just doesn't feel like that to me..... maybe I have to change my thoughts on this.'

Yuk! This is classic emotional abuse. And if you have been here for 10 years with him, you are entitled to stay here as long as you wish.

Spiritedwolf Mon 25-Mar-13 18:46:13

There's two ways to look at it Vieniqua, there is the way you seem to be seeing it at the moment, that your thirteen year history is a bind and that you should stay together because you've made it this far. I'd like to introduce you to another way of looking at it:

Thirteen years you've put up with this selfish man. That's more than long enough to give him a chance to show his true colours. If he was going to turn into a sensitive and caring partner then he would have done it by now. No point wasting any more time waiting for the leopard to change his spots.

I'm appalled that he sees you as an object to masterbate in, rather than a living breathing person whose feelings about and desire for sex matter. You don't ever have to have sex when you don't want to have it. This isn't something you can compromise about in a relationship, if one person doesn't want to have sex, it doesn't happen. Period.

If you want to increase your sex drive, then you can look at ways of doing that. But please don't feel you have to. If he has sexual 'needs' that don't involve caring and loving his partner, then he can masterbate or ask to leave the marriage to seek his fortunes elsewhere. You shouldn't feel coerced into sex in order that he is a decent husband who does his fair share about the house.

I have had a higher sex drive than my husband for some time during our marriage. I was maybe a bit hurt by his 'rejections' but I would never have wanted him to have sex with me reluctantly. Eventually, I stopped wrapping up my self esteem and how much I believed he loved me in our sex life, and my sex drive became lower (or at least I was less upset about being rejected!). His sex drive improved when he was under less stress some months later and we did meet in the middle. But this apparent 'compromise' never meant him having sex when he didn't want it. It was love and understanding combined with a bit more self awareness on my part. Sex became more fun and spontaneous without the pressure I had put on it, and we finally concieved our much longed for (by both of us!) baby.

What I'm saying about my story, is that its not your job to make yourself more available to him. If your low sex drive is a problem for you, then you can look to see if there are medical, emotional or relationship reasons for it. But please don't let him force you into sex. That's not a loving partner, that's a rapist.

amverytired Mon 25-Mar-13 18:55:30

It really is wrong, you know, horribly wrong.

I wonder if you actually feel that he loves you, seeing as though it's all about him not feeling you love him. I suspect that you don't actually feel loved at all, which isn't going to help the libido (for good reason).
I have experienced the sort of pressure you are under, and really, I now see it was emotional abuse.

Spiritedwolf Mon 25-Mar-13 19:00:01

I apologise for the way I've worded that bit. Nobody lets someone force them into sex. What I mean is, if he forces you and coerces you into sex then it is sexual abuse. It is not okay. Please don't 'let' him convince you that having sex you don't want to have is a normal part of a loving sexual relationship.

ExasperatedSigh Mon 25-Mar-13 19:29:04

Just to reassure you on the point about your dc living far away from him if you split, physical distance doesn't have to mean a crap relationship. My dad worked away a lot when we were kids but he worked hard at keeping our relationship alive - phone calls, letters, lots of time spent with us when he could. My mum did everything she could to facilitate this too (they were divorced). He was in our lives despite the circumstances and we were all glad of it.

Please don't let your worries on this point keep you in a situation in which you sound so very unhappy. It will be up to your husband to make the effort and tbh he sounds the type to just not bother, but that will be on him, not you.

cjel Mon 25-Mar-13 19:41:56

Obviously if you don't want sex then no one has the right to make you. Just to be devils advocate here though.Men really do see that sex means love, if you really are unresponsive that would upset him and maybe he feels that you are saying 'I don't like you' every time. It really is rejection to him,He feels really hurt and doesn't have the maturity to vocalise how difficult it is for him to love you so much and not be loved back. Before I get flamed here I want to say that it doesn't make it right what hes doing. Also I would definitely say go for counselling on your own. It will help you work through your confusion and sex is a really lovely thing and you are missing out on something good in all sorts of ways - its good excercise and relaxation!!!

snowshapes Mon 25-Mar-13 19:46:56

Agree this is wrong. He is coercing you into sex you do not want. He knows you do not want it. It is sexual assault. My STBXH was similar, also tied doing chores to wanting his sexual needs met, and more. It was abusive. Leaving is hard but he does not respect you and you deserve more.

I also suspect it is nothing to do with your libido and everything to do with him. Honestly. How are you going to feel okay one month postpartum if you are being sent to the gp for oestrogen cream, when your response was perfectly normal.

ThreeTomatoes Mon 25-Mar-13 19:56:51

A book that might help - you, that is, not your relationship.

I'm pretty shock at what you've described of his behaviour. sad

PoppyField Mon 25-Mar-13 20:20:47

I agree with Cogito - he's a bully. Tell him he's bullying you and see how contrite he is. Somebody who cares for you should be contrite. He should care that he is upsetting you. Or will he just carry on regardless? A Class A shit will carry on regardless. He will be making a choice to behave like a Class A shit. He is choosing to behave this way.

And I wouldn't want to have sex with someone who is so horrible and insulting either. It's not exactly stroking you and making you feel adored is it? Just how does he love you? Not in a very nice way...from where I'm standing.

I feel for you. He is being nasty and vicious. No conscience at all.

vieniqua Mon 25-Mar-13 20:41:11

The support on here is so amazing, I thank you all for your thoughts. I'm going to read the whole thread again and really take it in.
I want to have a conversation with dh, we're speaking but it's so strained at the moment.
But I don't want to have the exact same conversation that we always have so I need to gather my thoughts and I will use some of your words.
I am so very grateful to everyone who's posted, this gets me down a lot and I need to resolve it, I don't want this situation again, whether I stay or go.

KeepCoolCalmAndCollected Mon 25-Mar-13 21:10:02

10 years is far too long to put up with such abuse and pressure. It is against your feelings and therefore it is tantamount to rape. As someone said up-thread leopards don't change their spots. Stop sleeping with him immediately.

NotMostPeople Mon 25-Mar-13 21:33:26

My DH is repulsed by the idea of me going through the motions just to placate him, I honestly don't think that a good person would ask this of you. I don't think a good person could get sexual pleasure knowing the other person wasn't feeling the same. A good person wouldn't want it, wouldn't ask it.

I feel very sad for you.

hellsbells76 Mon 25-Mar-13 21:54:09

You sound lovely and far too good for this arsewipe. I'm glad you're finding the thread helpful.

Jux Mon 25-Mar-13 23:15:25

He's not really capable of affection, without it leading to sex
he won't take any responsibility himself
he sees it as my problem only
he's never ever done a bedtime

I could continue quoting you, but I won't.

vieniqua, these all show your dh as a classic selfish bastard. As you are thinking of it anyway, I am happy to say, go ahead, leave the bastard.

He is a crap husband and a crap dad. He blames you for everything and evades reponsibility for himself. He does not share in family life, but leaves it to you.

No bloody wonder you are tired. It's not just that looking after children is tiring, or that housework is tiring or that both are jobs which never end. It is mostly that you are fighting against the idea that your husband is a lazy sod who has you running around keeping him serviced and jumping to a click of his fingers. He'll be nice to you if you fuck him. FGS. He's a bloody neanderthal and you and your children will be better away from him.

Moanranger Mon 25-Mar-13 23:28:22

Your H sounds a lot like my STBXH - hassle you all the time for sex, it's all about them & their needs. It does become a form of rape or at the least EA. a caring partner would not WANT to have sex with someone who was not enjoying it. I suspect that your lack of libido is the result of his pressure. If you want to continue the relationship, counselling would be the best approach, but if he does not change & you stay with him your self-esteem will suffer. He does not sound like a very nice person.

EggyFucker Mon 25-Mar-13 23:38:38

This is so sad, OP

No one should have to live like this

Your husband treats you no better than a blow up doll, and withdraws his support when you don't open your legs often enough

He is vile.Please go back to your family. Don't stay with him because of your children. They won't thank you for that.

EggyFucker Mon 25-Mar-13 23:41:08

This is so sad, OP

No one should have to live like this

Your husband treats you no better than a blow up doll, and withdraws his support when you don't open your legs often enough

He is vile.Please go back to your family. Don't stay with him because of your children. They won't thank you for that.

EggyFucker Mon 25-Mar-13 23:41:50

Sorry, having problems with my Sky connection < shakes fist at ceiling >

vieniqua Tue 26-Mar-13 07:37:49

I truly hear what everyone is saying and I agree and have been feeling this awful way for so many years (on and off, as when he's happy, I'm deluded that it's all been fixed).....BUT
his point of view is this:

When he's having lots of sex, he feels loved and wanted and feels like putting his heart and soul into the marriage. When he's not, he withdraws because he says he doesn't feel wanted or loved.

I am NOT justifying him, but I think he truly believes this and no matter what I say I don't think I could convince him that just because I don't feel like sleeping with him, doesn't mean I don't love him.

He's ground me down tbh and I didn't have the conversation with him last night, I have to find some courage from somewhere.

Thank you for your continued support, I agree with what you're all saying and do want to leave, as I don't think he'll change, but I do want to talk to him about it by putting all your viewpoints across. But I know he'll get mad if he feels accused, so I want to talk to him in a non accusatory way. It's probably futile anyway because he truly believes the problem is mine and mine only.

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 26-Mar-13 07:47:57

"When he's having lots of sex, he feels loved and wanted and feels like putting his heart and soul into the marriage. When he's not, he withdraws because he says he doesn't feel wanted or loved."

And you could equally say... that when he withdraws and is nasty to you because you don't feel like having lots of sex you feel pressured, coerced, emotionally blackmailed, unloved, unwanted, unhappy and you are not in the slightest bit aroused.

If he interprets an explanation of your feelings as an 'accusation' he's just a bully. If he blames you and only you for the problem, he is an insensitive bully. So say what you have to say and judge him by his reaction.

Branleuse Tue 26-Mar-13 07:55:10

maybe its time to split up. being constantly rejected for sex IS humiliating and if you're just not that into him and he is you,then either try and regain some passion or split.

Lueji Tue 26-Mar-13 07:55:28

In a way, it is your problem.
He's insensitive and a bully. He won't try to see your point of view or respect you as a woman to actually makes you want to feel like having sex.
What will you do about it?

ThreeTomatoes Tue 26-Mar-13 08:03:52

It's disgusting, quite frankly, that his treatment of you and by extension the DC - the family - the home - etc etc - is conditional, and entirely based on whether you have sex with him. As I said, shock. That is not love by any stretch of the imagination.

ThreeTomatoes Tue 26-Mar-13 08:13:40

He is totally controlling you using sex. It's sexual abuse, OP sad
Hidden hurt website - scroll down to "withholding sex and affection" - your situation is of this sort but the other way round - he withholds his love, 'help' around the house, being nice, speaking etc, if he doesn't get what he wants in the sack. He may feel as he says he does and it's understandable (rejected, humiliated, worried & all that) but a decent human being who loves you for who you are and who really cares about his family and wants a full part in it would simply share those feelings in the ordinary way - talking, etc, listen to how you feel, seeing what you could do to come to some compromise, etc etc - rather than basically punishing you in other unrelated ways, ways that are pretty crucial to your family life.

Helltotheno Tue 26-Mar-13 08:29:38

Branleuse objectively it really can't be said this guy is constantly being rejected...he's actually doing ok. Maybe he just needs to defocus from his own selfish wants and think about others for a while? OP has already said he's not even a great father so what is the point of him?

OP could you talk to anyone in rl and explain the situation and how unhappy you are, like a good friend or family member? Don't for a minute think there's anything valid in what he said...its just more emotional blackmail designed to make you feel bad and think everything is your fault. He's just a selfish twunt...

ThreeTomatoes Tue 26-Mar-13 08:32:49

oh yes I meant to add, once a week/10 days is fabulous as far as I'm concerned!! wink grin

EggyFucker Tue 26-Mar-13 08:33:50

After all these years, he isn't going to suddenly see your viewpoint

Stop talking to him, and start talking to a professional who can help you leave

womans aid is a good place to start

Jux Tue 26-Mar-13 09:13:43

Abuse abuse abuse! That's what he's doing. By all means try to talk. He won't see it, won't admit anything - even the possibility that he may be playing some part in this.

Sex can be completely loveless so his excuse that that's what makes him feel loved is bollocks. He's broken. Does he think his children love him? Does he love his parents? Does he have sex with them too? Of course not, I'm sure. It's an excuse to make you responsible, at fault, to blame, so he can just get his rocks whenever he wants to without having to do anything to deserve it. He might as well go somewhere and pay for it for all he can be bothered to do anything to deserve it from you.

God, he makes me [anger] on your behalf. I loathe and despise men like this.

vieniqua Tue 26-Mar-13 09:57:58

Thank you all for your words and understanding. We finally did talk this morning and he's agreed that it's over. Completely right Jux, won't see it, won't admit anything. It's all my fault, I am destroying the family. He's incredibly angry and says he won't go to counselling, he's the perfect husband, affectionate all the time.
I'm a mess, can't stop crying, but I know I've done the right thing. I feel relief, but I'm worried that I will cave in and say sorry like I usually do. Deep down there's still love for him though, what do I do with that?

Helltotheno Tue 26-Mar-13 10:03:38

OP it's right thing for you to split, even though you might not fully feel it now.
Please talk to family and friends about it first. Don't allow yourself to be worn down. The people who care about you will support you.

EggyFucker Tue 26-Mar-13 10:03:39

Channel that misguided love into yourself, you deserve it

You can't work at something if the other is not willing to compromise. A marriage cannot be saved unilaterally.

he has told you in no uncertain terms it would have to be you turning yourself into a Stepford Wife if he is going to stick around.

Never. Gonna. Happen.

Helltotheno Tue 26-Mar-13 10:06:04

OP there's no need for you to say sorry, you owe him nothing. Whatever you do, don't cave and say sorry. Keep referring back to this thread. He's trying to blame you now and you have to stand up for yourself and make sure he doesn't get to do that.

He might as well go somewhere and pay for it for all he can be bothered to do anything to deserve it from you.

This 100%. He'll come to realise nobody else with put up with his arsey behaviour either.

Bollocks is he the perfect husband. Nobody's perfect! And he sounds like a complete cock. I have no brilliant advice for you as you've had loads but I bet your neck and shoulders feel a lot better once you're shot of this dick. I get sore neck and shoulders when I am tense and stressed and it gets stiff and sore. I bet once you feel more relaxed from not being under pressure all the time then you'll feel better. Good luck sweetheart, you'll be fine x

OP can I ask if the sex is good sex? for you I mean? does he push your buttons ever? you should never have sex when you don't want to, but maybe if you worked on the quality of the sex you would be jumping in the sack?

Not minimilising his shitty behaiour, this is food for thought for any ongoing relationships you may go on to have.

Lueji Tue 26-Mar-13 10:28:56

Good on you for ending it.
I think his reaction is very telling. He's still blaming you.

Do you actually love him or the man you hoped he would be?

vieniqua Tue 26-Mar-13 10:35:27

libertine, it can be good when I feel "in the mood" but it's not like it used to be. My friend saw me looking upset this morning and wants me to go over to hers to talk. I hate airing my dirty laundry, so to speak, but maybe it's a good idea?

vieniqua Tue 26-Mar-13 10:37:28

I don't know Lugji, I'm so utterly confused. I don't know what to do logistically or what to tell the children. I don't even know if I'm strong enough to not go backwards. It's so scary and my parents are a million miles away.

Your parents are not a million miles away, far away yes, maybe go for a break? take the kids, have a holiday and think? and I think talking to your friend In RL would be a good move, if she's a good friend.

vieniqua Tue 26-Mar-13 10:54:13

Thanks Libertine, I think I will.
Sorry, I spelt your name wrong Lueji!

Helltotheno Tue 26-Mar-13 11:22:50

Yes talk to your friend. No matter what happens, it will take a weight off you to be able to share it. Are you close to your family? Would any of them consider coming over to stay with you for a while, or near you?

vieniqua Tue 26-Mar-13 11:36:47

Yes I am close to my family, but I think I'd prefer to go to them. The dc have a couple of big things coming up, but by May, we'd be free to go, at least for a break, or for good.
The couple of times in the past when I've been on the verge of leaving, DH will usually be angry, but then calm down and try to talk sense into me, he'll ask me if I really want to throw it all away - that's the point where I'll break down and cave in and think I can live with the horrible time every few months, because the rest of the time it's not too bad.
I wish it could all go away and we could just be happy. (I know it won't though)

I can't believe how nice and sweet and helpful you all are. I have to thank you all again, even if I don't thank you individually.

pollypandemonium Tue 26-Mar-13 12:36:25

Hi vieniqua, I feel strongly that you should take a break from him to be with your family. They will give you perspective on your situation and show you what things could be like for you. They will remind you what it is like to be respected and valued and an important part of someone's life. You don't have to tell him you're leaving him, perhaps you don't know if you want to yet.

What would he say if you suggested you going away?

snowshapes Tue 26-Mar-13 13:21:21

Hi, was thinking of your post this morning, so much resonated for me. Talk to your friend, don't minimise it, go see your parents, stay strong. Everyone on here is right, it is abuse, and if he is still blaming you, that is part of his efforts to control you. It is not love. Once you begin to recognise that, which you have, you cannot live with it. So don't cave, stay strong, post here, seek out your RL friends, and step by step you will find a way through for you and your DCs. All the very best.

Lueji Tue 26-Mar-13 14:15:53

This is where you talk to people, CAB, check any benefits and speak to a solicitor.
It may seem overwhelming right now, but you can go step by step.

Strength vibes. smile

vieniqua Tue 26-Mar-13 16:17:37

You're all wonderful. Spoke to my friend today. She said what you're saying - that I should go see my parents.

I'm feeling a bit wibbly about dh. And sad for him, even though my head KNOWS all the bad stuff, all that snowshapes has written. It's so so hard. I don't know how I'll ever be able to detach.
Lueji, that just sounds so scary.

pollypandemonium Tue 26-Mar-13 16:37:47

Lueji has a point about going step by step. If you are not intending to move permanently you may need to think of how to get back and you may want to get that put in place now. Do you see yourself continuing to live here even if you separate?

vieniqua Tue 26-Mar-13 17:20:04

I don't know. I haven't thought that far ahead. I'm not able to think of anything right now. I feel like I just want to go to sleep, my head feels so heavy. it's a strange feeling.

Luckily the dc make it easier not to think about it right now.

I'm dreading dh coming home, I don't know if he'll be calm or angry or upset.

This morning he talked at me and I just stood there and listened and cried because he wouldn't listen to anything I said. I can't just pack up and leave, but how can we live in the same house with this horrible atmosphere? This is just awful.

Jux Tue 26-Mar-13 17:51:51

No one wants to be in a relationship with someone who can't be bothered to listen to them, and especially no one wants to shag a twat who doesn't bother to listen to them. Where do these idiots gets their ideas?

He's a dead loss, vieniqua. I'm so sorry.

pollypandemonium Tue 26-Mar-13 22:12:13

Vieniqua, get some sleep and gather your strength. You are probably in some kind of shock and you need to rest. You said yourself - he agreed it is over. What you may be feeling is loss.

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