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Am I being a mug - supporting him when he won't support me?

(268 Posts)
Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 16:16:48

Hi, it's my first time here. Haven't got anyone to discuss this with and would appreciate some perspectives. It's complicated, but will try not to make it too long though you're welcome to ask anything you feel I've missed.
DP and I have been together for 4 years. I had a 2.5 year old when we met, we now have a 14 month old together. We were planning to move in together when I was pregnant as that's when our contracts on respective properties ran out. However, some extra debts from his marriage came to light and we couldn't afford to do so. When his contract ran out he moved into a room in a friends house which he doesn't pay for. He comes to visit for tea on work nights then sleeps at his friends, on nights off (generally 3 per week) he eats and sleeps here. He doesn't pay anything towards rent, food or bills here though he does pay maintenance towards our baby - though that's partly to reduce the CSA payment for his children from his marriage I suspect. All his money (around 40k salary) is going into paying off his debts.
He says that if he's being honest it'll be at least another 1.5/2 years before he can afford to move in with us. He would then like us to have another baby. I said that I wouldn't like a baby if I couldn't stay home with them for at least the first three years (personal preference) and he said that in that case we wouldn't be able to have another one as 'his wages wouldn't be enough to support us.' At the moment I do and pay for everything and think I'm being a mug for effectively supporting him to clear his debts when he isn't willing to support me in the future. Having another child isn't essential for me but it irritates me that I have far less money than 40k p/a yet it's ok for me to support him but he wouldn't do it for me.
Also, it's gone from having a baby together in a loving committed relationship where we were moving in together to him not living with us until our child is potentially almost 3.5 years old. Not to mention the fact this isn't good for either child, it means I do absolutely everything for them. I work from home and am also studying for a degree. Next year is my final year when I'll be doing my dissertation which is obviously a huge piece of work. Another student that's doing it this year said she's been in the library 4 days per week from 10am-11pm since September and still not finished. Youngest DD is difficult at night - she will only sleep if latched on so doing my university work is proving impossible. When I told DP how much work is involved next year he said he'd 'tell his mum to get DVD player fired up to entertain DD.' I just felt like screaming at him that it isn't his mums responsibility to have our DD (never mind the fact she never has, never offered and lives 1.5 hours away) that if he lived with us then he could do what normal partners do and help with the kids at night so I can work then. He's just done some work based exams which he got to study for every night interruption free as I have the kids yet I feel I could well fail the degree which I've invested my savings in and that is essential for my future career and for me to be able to provide for the kids. Not only that but if we reach the day where he moves in then things won't get easier for me as he won't know what to do with the kids/they'll want me.
I'm aware I'm ranting now so I'll stop there! Am I wrong to be feeling utterly pissed off at the situation?

Lueji Sat 23-Mar-13 16:28:09

Is he even paying CSA minimum?

Not sure what you're getting out of this relationship. sad

I hope you're not doing his laundry too. smile

Mum2Fergus Sat 23-Mar-13 16:30:30

Sorry, but are.

Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 16:32:30

Yes CSA is only thing he pays.
He loves the kids and I I believe and I trust him. But I feel like a single parent and can't see that ever changing. It drives me mad that family/friends assume we live together, he pays for stuff and helps with kids when actually not the case

tribpot Sat 23-Mar-13 16:37:15

You've managed to find yourself a rare combo there of well-paid cocklodger. He's paying nothing for his upkeep either at his friend's house or yours (and what are the chances he's told his friend he's ploughing all his spare cash into supporting you and his children?) yet still isn't chipping away significantly at his debts.

Has he disclosed the extent of them / his repayment plan? Or has he just told you it'll be another 2 years? Why wouldn't his wages cover the household bills once his debts are cleared? Does he even know how much they are?! Or is it actually a point of 'principle' for him - he won't support you financially during a baby's early years, end of.

Why isn't he taking the children to help you study on his days or evenings off?

It sounds like financially you would be better off single - and emotionally/practically you almost certainly would be too.

pinkyredrose Sat 23-Mar-13 16:39:11

You're being taken for granted. Has he ever looked after his own kids?

I don't think he wants to live with you. Atm he has 2 free houses to choose from, probably suits him the way it is.

EggyFucker Sat 23-Mar-13 16:40:51

eh ?

Why are you with this man ? It is clear he is a consummate liar and keeps you hanging on for something vague in the future.

He earns 40k but can't pay bills or support a family? What a pile of absolute wank

You have had your hat nailed on good and proper, my love

Lueji Sat 23-Mar-13 16:42:01

Even the contracts were a red herring. I'm sure he could have given a 2 month notice.

I bet he's the sort of man who will keep completely separate finances I you move in/marry.
And will make you pay everything for the children and you out of your wages.

expatinscotland Sat 23-Mar-13 16:43:32

Yes, you are being a mug. Make sure you are on some very good birth control, do not have another child with this waster.

Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 16:44:17

He is definitely paying his debts. Probably tells people he pays more towards us too though. Think it is partly principle that he wants us both to be earning and working. However I'm going into teaching and will struggle to do planning etc at evenings and weekends with still no help. His days off are usually weekdays. Elder DD doesn't want him taking her to/from school. Younger DD won't settle with him if she can see me in the day and not at all in the evening as he generally goes after tea. He has had younger DD during the day a few times so I can work but he drives til she sleeps/ walks her in pushchair so she sleeps then she's up late at night for me and so it isn't helpful.

EggyFucker Sat 23-Mar-13 16:46:38

You say the debts are "from his marriage"

What exactly is he in debt for ?

dopeysheep Sat 23-Mar-13 16:46:52

Stop feeding him for a start! Then stop everyrhing else you are doing for him and tell him to step up or fuck off.
You could pay for a couple of nights childcare with the money you'd save not having his sponging arse draining you.
Goid luck with.your degree.

Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 16:48:36

If we did eventually move in by then I'd be earning half what he does but wouldn't be able to afford to kids to do extra curricular activities etc like they do now. Not to mention holidays. We have two (UK) holidays booked and he hasn't even offered to pay for himself let alone anything towards the kids.

something2say Sat 23-Mar-13 16:49:15

I'd start making some changes and start now !!! For example, asking for money for his share of the food, or cook, and tell him there is none for him as your budget hasn't stretched this week to include him. See what happens then x

expatinscotland Sat 23-Mar-13 16:49:52

'Think it is partly principle that he wants us both to be earning and working.'

He wants to freeload off you. Duh. Sounds like your elder DD doesn't like him much. Why is that?

something2say Sat 23-Mar-13 16:50:09

I think you have to ask him, not expect him to offer as clearly he thinks you are ok paying for it all....

Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 16:50:14

His wife stayed in the marital home then didn't pay the mortgage for months. They Also had loans and credit cards

fedupofnamechanging Sat 23-Mar-13 16:51:35

You are better off not letting him move in because he will just loaf in your house, rather than hid friends and still do sweet FA to assist you. In your shoes I would get proper child support and use it to finance child care so you can study and on the night's he I'd at yours, I'd take myself off to study and leave the Kidd with him. Make his.presence in your house work for you. At the moment you are his regular shag, without him having to commit.

I would be very wary of s man who you think is attempting to dodge maintainence for his children from his previous relationship.

Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 16:52:01

He thinks its ok that I'm paying for everything now because its for the families good long term. Hence if he contributed now it'd be longer til he could pay his debts and move in.

expatinscotland Sat 23-Mar-13 16:52:14

'His wife stayed in the marital home then didn't pay the mortgage for months. They Also had loans and credit cards'

And now he's living for free off this friend and you.

tribpot Sat 23-Mar-13 16:52:22

So tell him not to drive/walk his dd to sleep every single time. What would he say if you did?

Can't believe he's got the nerve to be coming on holiday with you and not paying his own way. How does that tie in with it is partly principle that he wants us both to be earning and working ? He wants you to be working, more like, so he never has to shell out for a bloody thing.

expatinscotland Sat 23-Mar-13 16:55:30

I don't get why you're with him at all. He's a sponge. He does nothing for you or your child.

ChunkyEasterChick Sat 23-Mar-13 16:56:13

How much debt is he in??!!! I was earning almost that much a few yrs back (2 dc later & part time, not so much...) and whilst I would never have thought myself rich, I was paying towards a reasonable size mortgage, saving for a wedding, supporting an expensive hobby etc etc. DH & I have only slightly more annual income combined now but we have a HOUSE and 2 dc. He isn't even paying rent...

I think the lack of financial savvy would have been a warning for me, let alone him not seeming to want to live together v much & not contribute to a joint life together.

I'm afraid you do seem to be being taken for a mug.

So basically you are a single parent who has a part time boyfriend who also happens to be the father of one of your children, but isn't committed to either being a parent or being a boyfriend.


Not sure why you are wasting time and money on him.

he should be bringing food round, for all of you, on the days he comes over. He should be having an active part in family life, it sounds really sad that he doesn't.

Does he even view you three as his family? Or are you just his girlfriend who hhas kids?

Lueji Sat 23-Mar-13 16:57:20

You realise he could move in anytime he wanted? He just chooses not to.

And who guarantees that he won't dump you once his debts are paid off?
Or continue to live off you?

Also, why didn't he pay part of the mortgage, or all?

I wonder what were the reasons for the split...

Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 16:57:52

She does like him, she just sees me as the committed parent to do school runs etc which is understandable. Just leaving younger DD with him at night isn't an option as she would scream the house down and wake elder DD - not fair that they're punished because he hasn't made the effort. Plus if he has her and she's crying he just paces with her (mostly near me) I can't concentrate and end up taking her. Understand what you're saying re: paying for child care but I don't feel I should be paying for what support he should be providing for free.

Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 17:00:06

He does play a part in family life - he comes along to school stuff, activities, trips etc. it's just still while I do/pay for everything though!

expatinscotland Sat 23-Mar-13 17:00:29

Amy, she sees him for what he is: a freeloading manchild who goes around procreating and then running off.

He's not going to 'help' you. He doesn't want to. Please understand that and plan on a future without this mooch.

I am confused as to how you can have two holidays booked without him paying?

Have you booked and paid for him then? Can I ask why you would do such a foolish thing?

Spongers like him will take whatever they can. You're a fool to be so freely giving him it all. Don't book him on your family holidays. Give him the details for him to book himself on.

Tell him now, if he wants to come on the holiday, he has to book his place himself.

ChunkyEasterChick Sat 23-Mar-13 17:01:30

But its not free childcare/support from him is it? You're paying for his food, somewhere to sleep & bringing up his child without him. Plus paying for holidays.

That seems like you've got all the disadvantages of having an au pair with none of the advantages (I.e doing the housework, helping with childcare etc).

Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 17:02:15

Yes he could move in now but then he'd be paying less towards his debts.
He says DD won't settle in the house with him hence walking/driving

expatinscotland Sat 23-Mar-13 17:02:36

'He does play a part in family life - he comes along to school stuff, activities, trips etc. it's just still while I do/pay for everything though!'

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

He pays you lip service, gives you a sweetie now and then to keep you sweet.

He does no real childcare - I'll tell my mum to fire up the DVD player hmm - and comes over and loafs and sponges.

He had debts and loans. Why? Because he feels entitled to loaf off others and not pay.

Can you say, 'L-O-S-E-R?'

expatinscotland Sat 23-Mar-13 17:03:59

'Yes he could move in now but then he'd be paying less towards his debts.
He says DD won't settle in the house with him hence walking/driving '

Always an excuse, eh? What does he tell the friend about not paying for lodging there?

Amy, you've been had.

Lueji Sat 23-Mar-13 17:05:21

How does that work?
Because he's still be rent free and food shopping free.

What he actually means is that he doesn't want personal nor financial responsibility.

Or would you lose any benefits from being a single parent?

How big is this debt???

Amy I don't think he is playing a part in family life if he doesn't actually financially contribute to that family life.

And some of your excuses for why he doesn't do more don't really cut it.

Your DD doesn't want him to do the school run? Well, that is a temporary thing. If he just did it she would soon get used to it!

Same for your younger DD, she would soon settle with him at night if he regularly did it. Sounds like he doesn't want to though.

Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 17:06:44

Holidays- I said DD wants to go away for her birthday, can you get time off and would you like to come? He said yes, I booked it there and then as was in travel agents and he hasn't offered a penny nor will he. Really want to go abroad but DP has no holidays left. Was thinking of taking the girls alone to prove a point but then if I was struggling financially and he took the kids away without me I'd think he was an utter wanker so feel I can't do it to him.

expatinscotland Sat 23-Mar-13 17:06:53

Why on EARTH would you want him to move in? You have enough on your plate already. You think he's going to move in and do his fair share and pay his own way? This man is a freeloader.

I agree with expat. You've been had.

expatinscotland Sat 23-Mar-13 17:08:09

'He said yes, I booked it there and then as was in travel agents and he hasn't offered a penny nor will he. Really want to go abroad but DP has no holidays left. Was thinking of taking the girls alone to prove a point but then if I was struggling financially and he took the kids away without me I'd think he was an utter wanker so feel I can't do it to him. '

You're thinking like a mug. He isn't struggling financially! FFS, he does not pay rent or board!

McPheetStink Sat 23-Mar-13 17:08:19

I had a cocklodger for two years. He's now left me and his 8 month old daughter and moved his cock in to another womens house. He is a parasite, and sounds much like yours! I spent thousands on this wanker, and he pays not ONE penny towards his daughter. I still love the idiot though. But would love to smack him upside the head with a steel pan.

Please listen to the ladies advice.

Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 17:09:55

That's the thing, he can't regularly do nights with the younger DD because he isn't here enough. And I don't think it's fair for elder DD to be forced to accept him doing school runs -after all if he doesn't end up sticking around its better she keeps her distance a bit.

This is what life with a cocklodger is like.

He hit paydirt when he met you because he has been able to take full advantage of your kindness and naivety. He thinks you have MUG tattooed on your forehead. Why are you allowing yourself to be treated so shabbily, what on earth did you learn about relationships when growing up?.

expatinscotland Sat 23-Mar-13 17:12:19

Cocklodger. That's it.

I'd be beyond embarrassed if I were 40-years-old and sofa surfing because I was such a loser.

Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 17:12:30

But he has tens of thousands of pounds of debts. Yes he was a dick to get them, but if I had debts and he said 'never mind you not being able to afford a holiday, the kids and I are going anyway' I would think that was horrible.

You still haven't explained why exactly you didn't tell him to pay his own way for the holiday.

Why didn't you just get him to book it? And why haven't you asked for the money if you know he won't offer?

Why not just say "by the way you owe me blah blah for the holiday, can I have it by tomorrow please?"

EmpressMaud Sat 23-Mar-13 17:12:49

Afraid it does rather sound like you're being taken advantage of.

I'd ask him to contribute now, regardless and in full knowledge of any potential 'delay', he may not follow through and keep his promise of moving in after all.

Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 17:13:50

He's not even thirty yet!

expatinscotland Sat 23-Mar-13 17:14:31

'That's the thing, he can't regularly do nights with the younger DD because he isn't here enough. And I don't think it's fair for elder DD to be forced to accept him doing school runs -after all if he doesn't end up sticking around its better she keeps her distance a bit.'

It's not fair on her to have him in your life at all. Why? Because you're feeding him and lodging him for free with money that could be spent on her.

Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 17:15:00

He'd pay for it if I asked, but then it'd mean longer til he moves in which isn't better for the kids or me.

expatinscotland Sat 23-Mar-13 17:15:11

He's not even 30 and he's like this already? Amy, he is cocklodging and you are being a mug.

TheCrackFox Sat 23-Mar-13 17:15:22

Realistically how long will his friend let him live there rent free? Most friends would offer 4/6 weeks not a couple of years.

Frankly his story does not add up. He sees you as nothing more than a slightly complicated booty call.

I don't think its' horrible.

DP goes skiing every year. I can't afford it (or don't want to waste that much money on that kind of holiday) so I don't go. When DS is older DP will take him with him, and pay for him, I wouldn't expect him to pay for me, I could go but would rahter spend my money on other tihngs.

He can afford to go on holiday with you, he earns £40k and pays no rent or bills.

He wants another baby! shock What a dick. How many children does he have that he is not actually really supporting?

Why has the family home not been sold as part of his divorce settlement?

Yes, you are a mug.

Lueji Sat 23-Mar-13 17:16:06

He isn't there regularly because he chooses not to be!!!

Not that you'd want him to.

If/ when he moves in you'll still do everything and pay for everything.
He's not showing any kind of commitment to you or his child.
Going to events and not paying is a walk in the park. He looks good, and nothing for you.

How much is this holiday that it would mean longer till he moves in?

Come on, I don't buy that at all!

If it was that much you wouldn't be able to afford it either.

Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 17:16:43

Rent is the same whether he lodges here or not. Feeding him doesn't cost much but agreed it shouldn't be my responsibility.

kalidanger Sat 23-Mar-13 17:17:10

If hecearns £40k he takes home £2.5k a month. He's taking you for a ride and it doesn't even sound like you're a family tbh. He's just some bloke who pops over for dinner and a shag thrice a week. That's IT. Nothing else. Not one single solitary other gain for you, your DC and your household. And minimum CSA..? That's what is paid when the family has split, right? And the RP does, and pays for, everything else? And your friends and family think you all live together??

What the fuck are you doing, darling? Stop listening to what he says a d start looking at what he does

You don't even know if he'll stick around long enough to move in with you, so you should be getting the money he owes you off him now!

expatinscotland Sat 23-Mar-13 17:18:12

'He'd pay for it if I asked, but then it'd mean longer til he moves in which isn't better for the kids or me.'

You shouldn't have to ask. I'd be ashamed to have even a friend pay for holiday for me and my not contribute. Most people would. He uses the excuse that it'll be longer till he moves in to spin out freeloading off you. It's one of the oldest tricks in the book. And he's doing you a favour by not moving in.

You could well end up not getting your degree at all at this rate.

Lueji Sat 23-Mar-13 17:18:36

He'd pay for it if I asked, but then it'd mean longer til he moves in which isn't better for the kids or me.

I wonder if it would really be better for your family.
He's holding you ransom for the hope that he'll move in, and he'll be a proper partner and dad.

He won't.

If he lived with you he would have to contribute to the rent, so the rent would be less for you!

Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 17:20:14

I don't have family and friends, his friends and extended family presume we live together - only his parents know we don't.

Lucyellensmum95 Sat 23-Mar-13 17:22:05

So what exactly DOES he do for you? Im struggling to see what you are getting from this?

Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 17:22:12

And if he contributes to the rent it'd mean it'd take longer to pay off debts which would then increase due to interest...

butterfingerz Sat 23-Mar-13 17:22:22

How much does he owe, you say the 'debts' came to light, so did you see for yourself?

Even with repaying his debts, I don't see why he can't
1) Offer his friend rent, really, whats the going rate for a room in a house, not much.
2) Give you money for food, housekeeping whilst he eating tea there and staying over the weekend. Does he ever treat the kids to an ice cream or maccy ds when hes over?
3) Pay his share of the holiday.

Really on 40k, doing those things will not really make a dent in his plans to pay off his debt will it?

Not only that, a lot of us have debts of some sort, but day to day expenditure such as bills, children, food have to continue. How fortunate he can opt out of all his responsibilities on the back of other people.

expatinscotland Sat 23-Mar-13 17:22:37

Why does he hide his living arrangements from his friends and other family? I think I know!

TheSilveryPussycat Sat 23-Mar-13 17:22:51

So he has thousands of pounds of debts. His business. Not your job, therefore, to subsidise his food, shelter and holidays. It is for him to pay for these things.

(And I know of what I speak)

Lueji Sat 23-Mar-13 17:23:10

I think that's the problem.
You have no one else and are holding on to him for company.

But you could be making friends, and finding a loving and respectful partner.

Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 17:23:21

(I'm not defending him, just demonstrating the -albeit logical -arguments against the obvious which I can't help but consider)

He does not want to live with you. Face it.

He could live with you rent free could he not? And as he has to eat when lodging with his friend, he could contribute to the food budget at yours. He is opting not to. You need to focus on why that is.

expatinscotland Sat 23-Mar-13 17:23:58

'And if he contributes to the rent it'd mean it'd take longer to pay off debts which would then increase due to interest... '

And? Their his debts. He could get on an IVA or payment plan. He choses not to. Don't you get it? The move in is the little carrot he dangles before you.

How many kids does this guy have, anyhow?

moondog Sat 23-Mar-13 17:24:43

As long as women continue to have children with substandard men they will, sadly always be with us.
What is wrong with you Amy? Wake up. He's a prize prick.

'Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.'
Expat, you have excelled yourself here.
i think you should be MN's official tough love agony aunt

MajaBiene Sat 23-Mar-13 17:25:49

Even if it takes him a bit longer to pay off his debts, surely in the long run it is better for him to live with you in your final year so he can take over 50+% of the childcare and you can go to the library every night to study?

I mean, in the long term you failing your degree is going to cost you more than the interest on his loans in terms of your loss of your savings and your potential earnings as a teacher.

tiredlady Sat 23-Mar-13 17:26:00

Listen to what people are telling you here.
This man is taking you for ride.
Keep on trying to justify what he does if you like, but it will make no difference.
You have a choice in this relationship.
Start laying down some rules and see what happens. If he continues to act like a twat then you have the choice to stay and put up with this shit or you could leave.
Sorry if that sounds unsympathetic, I don't mean it to be, but Christ, the longer i am on MN the more astounded I get at some men's utter cuntishness and at some women's capacity to put up with their behaviour.
Good luck


Are you clinging onto him because you have no family or friends?. Where are your own family, are you estranged from these people?.

TheCrackFox Sat 23-Mar-13 17:27:28

Why doesn't he want his friends to know he doesn't live with you? He us hiding something.

Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 17:27:50

He doesn't hide it from them, they just assume we live together as we have a child together.
I don't need him for company, in fact I increasingly find myself happier when he isn't here. When he's here and I'm trying to brush elder DDs teeth while holding younger DD and she's moaning I get pissed off because he can't/doesn't help. If he isn't here I just get on. Then go to bed with DD rather than having to endure watching his crap on tv!

Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 17:28:39

Yes I'm estranged from my family. No, that isn't down to DP before you ask!

"in fact I increasingly find myself happier when he isn't here"

Surely that alone must tell you something. Hopefully the scales will fall from your eyes one day.

MajaBiene Sat 23-Mar-13 17:29:17

I can just imagine, in 2 years time:

He has paid off his debts super quick thanks to you and has £40k a year to spend on himself, minus the paltry amount the CSA makes him pay for his various children.

You have failed your degree due to having no support with childcare and are back to square one, still a single parent to two children.

What happens if he decides to drop you at that point and finds another mug girlfriend to support him?

So you dont even like his company! He sounds like a shit.

expatinscotland Sat 23-Mar-13 17:30:58

'in fact I increasingly find myself happier when he isn't here.'

That tells you all you need to know. So get on with it! Because he's not there, even when he's there, except when it comes time to feed at the trough for free.

He will never 'help' look after his own child. He doesn't now and he never will.


No, I didn't think this estrangement was in any way due to this man. This is also why I asked you earlier what you learnt about relationships when growing up. I daresay that you learnt an awful lot of damaging crap fron your parents and unfortunately for you (understatement) they sowed the seeds to being with this man now.

EggyFucker Sat 23-Mar-13 17:32:15

When you have paid his debts off for him (which you are effectively doing) he will fuck off and impregnate some other gullible woman.

For God's sake, wake up

KaraStarbuckThrace Sat 23-Mar-13 17:32:36

Then why are you with him?
He is of no use to you, his debts are nothing to do with you. So he should be paying his way.
You have had some really good advice here, I strongly suggest you listen carefully to it.

ChunkyEasterChick Sat 23-Mar-13 17:33:13

pure has it spot on. If your rent would be the same with him there or elsewhere, & he contributes £0 to it, how does living with you 3-4days a wk more mean he has less money to pay off his debts?

And seriously, even after tax, he must have 30k left over, and given he pays no rent, he could have as much as 20k a yr left. That's a remaining debt of 40k minimum to pay. How much beyond his means did he live? And do you want to share that burden?

Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 17:33:36

He isn't dangling a carrot really though because even if he moved in tomorrow I expect I'd still do everything for a good long time, if not forever. He is more into the relationship than I am - he relies on me for everything (not just money!!) texts all day, constantly declares love etc.

LineRunnyEgg Sat 23-Mar-13 17:33:43

Sorry, OP. He acts like this because he is like this.

Listen to the advice. It's good advice. He is behaving horribly, despite the veneer of charm.

MajaBiene Sat 23-Mar-13 17:35:52

My god Amy, this is really sad sad

You support him financially
You raise his child single handed
He comes round to yours for dinner/sex (?) a few times a week
You don't even enjoy having him there
Your older child isn't keen on him

This is not a good relationship for anyone but him. He has got a pretty amazing deal going though.

Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 17:35:57

I do like his company, I was probably being a bit harsh. I just feel like the resentment of the situation is detracting from the good bits.

EggyFucker Sat 23-Mar-13 17:36:25

Amy, do we all have him wrong ?

This thread is pretty unanimous in it's verdict...a rare thing on MN.

expatinscotland Sat 23-Mar-13 17:37:04

'He isn't dangling a carrot really though because even if he moved in tomorrow I expect I'd still do everything for a good long time, if not forever. He is more into the relationship than I am - he relies on me for everything (not just money!!) texts all day, constantly declares love etc.'

And you think that's okay? You do everything. What's the point, it's already making you resentful. He isn't more into this relationship, Amy, I'm very sorry to say, most cocklodgers are very into hanging onto their free meal+shag ticket and invest heavily into staying on that gravy train as much as possible.

You'll still have to sort out childcare, but with another child making a mess in your house and another mouth to feed.

expatinscotland Sat 23-Mar-13 17:38:07

And your other DD. She doesn't like him.

Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 17:39:20

But if he lived with us and doesn't contribute or help with kids then I'm still supporting him and doing everything except if we split he has rights to the house and kids

Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 17:40:29

Baby is awake - will be back later. Do appreciate replies, thank you.

MajaBiene Sat 23-Mar-13 17:41:30

If he isn't going to help practically or financially then definitely don't let him move in with you.

Don't continue this charade of a relationship either though.

JethroTull Sat 23-Mar-13 17:43:12

Amy I don't often comment on these threads but EVERYONE is saying the same thing - this man is taking the piss. If he loved you, truly loved you, he could contribute to your life without paying out lots of money. He doesn't support your vision of getting a degree. He doesn't contribute to childcare. He doesn't Want To Do any of this stuff. Get rid.

ImperialBlether Sat 23-Mar-13 17:44:30

Do you think you're making this Herculean effort to justify his behaviour because otherwise you'd have to admit you've had a baby with a twat?

OP, your life would be immeasurably better if you just dumped him, got some CSA off him and paid for babysitters or a cleaner with that money.

We would ALL love to live without paying a penny for anything but most of us realise that if we do, it means other people are paying for us and that's not right for us or for them.

He brings absolutely nothing to your life. Your kids don't want to be on their own with him. You don't seem to like him. He's a user and he's making you feel guilty for spending all your money on him.

Get rid, take the children abroad and have a lovely time.

Lueji Sat 23-Mar-13 17:47:03

We are not saying he should, just that his reasons are selfish and crap.

He is dangling several carrots.
The declarations of undying love, the texts, the promise of living together.
Otherwise you'd have been out a long time ago.

Wake up!

All you have to do now is text him not to bother coming back.

This is so sad.

Amy you deserve better. You do not need to stay with this man. It is not even a proper relationship.

pinkyredrose Sat 23-Mar-13 17:47:54

Stop making excuses for him OP.

ike1 Sat 23-Mar-13 18:08:29

I'd take the extra tax credits I would be entitled to without him, get a reliable sitter and do the necessary col work. Get rid ffs.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sat 23-Mar-13 18:20:09

This is how I'd expect it to work, logically:

He makes arrangements with the banks etc that he owes money to for a reasonable level of repayments that enable him to go on meeting everyday expenses. Whether this is a formal IVA or some other arrangements.

He moves in and sees his DD growing up

He and you have equal amounts of free time

He gives you extra support during your degree as this will improve the financial situation.

I don't know why you think his arguments are logical.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sat 23-Mar-13 18:21:04

...and even if they were, would "logic" really outweigh supporting your family practically and emotionally, if not financially.

tribpot Sat 23-Mar-13 18:55:09

I'd imagine your dd2 won't settle in the house because she knows you're there and would rather be with you, i.e. a competent parent, rather than one who doesn't even seem to know how to babysit, never mind parent.

The debt mountain is a blessing in disguise - otherwise he would be living with you and bleeding you dry already.

It is very, very common for people to run up debts again when they've paid them off, if they haven't addressed the underlying behaviour that got them into trouble. He lives in an unrealistic bubble where basically everyone is paying for him. This is not likely to be creating an environment where he learns to manage money properly ('properly' here meaning meeting his obligations whilst still breaking even, rather than hoarding all his money for himself).

Although the estrangement with your family has nothing to do with him, I don't think it's helping you because you don't have people in your corner in real life, saying 'what the FUCK is this guy on?'.

Walking around with the baby crying right next to where you are is a deliberately passive-aggressive act designed to upset both you and her. Seriously, this guy has no clue. I wouldn't let him look after my cat.

KatieMiddleton Sat 23-Mar-13 19:17:12

Get a lodger for company and income. Get one keen to help out with the kids so you can study.

Get rid of cock lodger. Be happy.

Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 19:32:41

She won't settle if I'm in the house (though personally I don't think he tries too hard) but even if I go to the library to work then he takes DD walking/driving or texts lots which makes me think she's unhappy then I can't concentrate.
This past week the kids and I have been ill and it's hit home how on my own I am. He's had a cold (kids and I have had norovirus so much worse) and has stayed at his friends rather than here when I really could've done with help at nights. He said he didn't want to stay here and wake us more...
I'm still suffering as is youngest DD, I went to drop something off to him at work today and he asked if I'd had a good morning. I said 'not really, DD is poorly and whingey and I've been sick 5 times.' Five mins later he text asking if I was horny...! I just wonder what planet he's on sometimes, I really do.

tribpot Sat 23-Mar-13 19:33:41

Btw I don't think it's a coincidence that the part of family life he chooses to participate in is the public-facing aspect, paid for out of your pocket.

meddie Sat 23-Mar-13 19:37:45

I could spend ages trying to persuade you to see what an arsehole this man is, but I think deep down you know he is a waste of space and are hoping that someone here can give you answers to make him better, We cant sorry.
The fact that you told him you were sick and he texts you. 'are you horny'. speaks absolute volumes for how little consideration he has for you. That just made my skin crawl.

expatinscotland Sat 23-Mar-13 19:40:23

Amy, he's a waste of space.

Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 19:42:10

Tribpot - that and the part in front of his family and friends.

Amykins35 Sat 23-Mar-13 19:44:35

I've been thinking I must be wrong to be resentful though as his parents seem to think its fine and that he's a hero for working so hard. (Which he doesn't, but either way it makes no difference to us as we don't see the money from it!)

expatinscotland Sat 23-Mar-13 19:45:34

He's a cocklodger, Amy. He is working hard for himself, not you and his child.

moonabove Sat 23-Mar-13 19:50:00

Amykins, you need to give yourself permission to leave this awful idiot. I can feel the life draining out of me just reading about him so god knows what it's like living it.

meddie Sat 23-Mar-13 19:50:07

He's done a right one on you hasn't he. You say you've been together 4 years and have a toddler. yet when you were due to move in he suddenly finds debts that prevent him? How come it took him 2 years to discover these?
You are getting absolutely nothing out of this relationship. He doesnt help with the kids, freeloads food of you. And though it might only be a meal a few nights a week, add up what it costs you extra to have him there. Does he use your soaps. toilet paper, towels and stuff you have to wash because he's there?
It might not cost extra rent to have him there, but your household expenses will be higher, and all he contributes is minimum csa for his baby? So he can pay less for his other children. The CSA probably doesnt even cover what he is costing you, never mind the upkeep of his child.

delilahlilah Sat 23-Mar-13 20:02:06

You're missing the point - you said earlier 'rent is the same' regardless of his presence - this applies to most of the bills aside from 25% discount you currently get for council tax, and food obviously would be more. I don't mean to be harsh but he isn't living with you because he doesn't want to. He wants his single life as well. I don't believe he is rent free at his friend's house, he's feeding you a line. I am at a loss to see why you would want him to move in....

dopeysheep Sat 23-Mar-13 20:15:05

So friends 'assume' you guys are living together, but you say he isn't hiding it. Well he is hiding it by omission. He doesn't want them to know because it paints him as a tool. Correctly.

If you don't want to put yourself first nothing people on here can say will make you, sadly. But imagine if it was your DD in a few years time being treated this way, would you be happy about it?

RandomMess Sat 23-Mar-13 20:15:31

You asked if you are being a mug.

Yes you are.

Catkinsthecatinthehat Sat 23-Mar-13 20:20:52

Amy, it would be useful to consider what you would do in his position.

If you were in deep debt and someone told you that you could clear that money in two years, but you'd have to live apart from your precious baby and not see it grow up, or you could live a proper family life, but pay the debt off off in four or five years, what would you do?

Would you actually give a toss about the mere length of the repayment period as long as you had your child? I don't think so. His 'logic' isn't logical at all. Please please make sure you use the money you fritter on him (on £40k a year!) to pay for childcare while you study, pass that degree, and build a future for yourself.

cjel Sat 23-Mar-13 20:21:59

As I've read more of this Vicky Pollard came to mind 'yeh but no but yeh but no but' You are telling us reasons that make no sense and I think you know that yourself He is on planet DP and knows no other.

dopeysheep Sat 23-Mar-13 20:24:48

And yes, pacing near you with a crying baby when you are supposed to studying is a cunt's trick.

EggyFucker Sat 23-Mar-13 20:25:05

Amy, are you listening at all ?

You say you are new to MN

let me tell you that a unanimous "get rid of the bastard" thread is virtually unheard of

do you think all these women are stupid, and don't get what a misunderstood soul your twat of a boyfriend is ?

if you had a friend in the same situation...what would you advise her?

Snuppeline Sat 23-Mar-13 20:25:19

I can't believe he has suddenly found debts after 2 years with you either. The source of the debts seem odd too. If his wife stopped paying mortgage for a few months surely she is liable for it too and is contributing towards it? And if it was only a few months the debt should be thousands not tens-of-thousands as it can only be if be is needing his full 40k salary to pay it off. He is lying. Either the debt is from mortgage errars AND somewhere else or he is lying. I can't understand either how, if his x-wife can't be trusted to pay mortgage he hasn't enforced sale of the house to settle the mortgage. Something is very very wrong here. Your explanations do sadly sound as defense of him and is a pain to read.

My advise would be for you to work to establish a new routine for your dd so that she settles easier. With that should come longer evenings in which you can study. I did a degree while dd was very young and I had to work out a routine so I had the evening free. Nursing to sleep needs to stop if it prevents you getting a couple of hours work done. Getting work done also means getting rid of distractions. Such as the waste of space you have in your life. Having him over 3 times a week is most likely 3 nights where you don't get work done because you are entertaining him? Get those nights back and use them to better yourself. You won't miss this man and neither will your dd's.

Snazzynewyear Sat 23-Mar-13 20:31:32

"He is more into the relationship than I am - he relies on me for everything (not just money!!) texts all day, constantly declares love etc. "

So in return for the minimal effort of sending texts (which he has the leisure to do!) and saying the right words, he gets 'everything' done for him. This needs to stop now. Whatever you do for him - you mentioned 'dropping something off at work', for example - don't. Tell him you are too busy looking after the kids and studying. No more cooking or whatever else. No more money - in fact tell him you need him to contribute to your household expenses if he is going to stay several nights a week. I predict you will soon see very clearly that he is in this for purely selfish reasons and as soon as you are less accommodating, he will have 'doubts'.

McPheetStink Sat 23-Mar-13 20:39:33

he relies on me for everything (not just money!!) texts all day, constantly declares love etc.

My cocklodger used to do exactly the same. Manboys at their best!

McPheetStink Sat 23-Mar-13 20:41:05

Snazzy, your last sentance is so true. My cocklodger suddenly left us when my money dried up. He claims other reasons, which are of course all bollocks.

FrequentFlyerRandomDent Sat 23-Mar-13 20:41:40

So he takes home £2,500 after tax and NI, pays no bills, no groceries, and cannot afford supporting his new family?

Have you met his bank manager and see the repayment plans? Or have you got his word or a piece of paper for its?

Even it true, he does not seem committed to your family at all.

You seem to b seeing through this. Your resentment is healthy. Listen to what you are trying to tell yourself.

LineRunnyEgg Sat 23-Mar-13 20:48:28

If this is real, get rid of him.

MysteriousHamster Sat 23-Mar-13 21:02:45

He should be begging to be living with you so if he can't contribute so much financially he can at least do his part of the childcare.

If he's not doing that, I wouldn't trust him that his £40k salary is only going towards debts. As FrequentFlyer says that's a decent whack of money he's getting each month - is he really spending over £2k on debts, and if so, why isn't he trying to get some of them written off/IVA'd?

Snorbs Sat 23-Mar-13 21:28:23

He is more into the relationship than I am - he relies on me for everything (not just money!!) texts all day, constantly declares love etc.

When there's dissonance between what someone does and what someone says, ignore their words and pay attention to what they do. Words are easy. Being a good and involved parent and partner is harder.

He's putting in the absolute minimum needed to keep you on the hook while you subsidise his life. He's a con-artist. It's time to cut your losses.

Phineyj Sat 23-Mar-13 21:42:45

I'm a teacher, and I would advise you in the strongest possible terms to get rid of this bloke before you embark on a career in teaching -- you simply won't be able to handle the hours with this to worry about and the lack of help (also I don't know what course you are on but if you are planning to train as a graduate your degree class might affect the bursary you get).

Obviously you can't get work done effectively when you are worried that the person you've left the children with isn't doing a good job. Any other single parents on your course -- could you swap the occasional night of babysitting?

You seriously think he is more into the relationship because he is sending you sweet little texts? hmm

Actions speak louder that SMS, I am afraid...

Hatpin Sat 23-Mar-13 21:57:46

Pound to a penny he's either still paying the mortgage on the FMH but hasn't told you, or is paying rent to his mate, or both.

In the event that he is actually trying to clear his debt in record time, do you really think he's going to hang around once he's got 2.5 grand a month in his pocket again?

He doesn't live with you now because he doesn't want to. He doesn't help with childcare because he doesn't want to. He doesn't offer to pay for anything because he doesn't want to.

If he's not committed now, he's hardly going to morph into partner of the year when he's got a bigger disposable income again.

Talk is cheap. Actions are the only currency you should be watching.

EggyFucker Sat 23-Mar-13 22:41:50

You going to come back, amy ?

Or are you going go flee back into your state of denial ?

Inertia Sat 23-Mar-13 23:57:35

Is the friend that he stays with half the week his (ex) wife?

GardenPath Sun 24-Mar-13 05:28:20

That's exactly what I was thinking, Inertia. This man is extremely manipulative, an inveterate liar and a con-artist. Textbook. Seen it, been there, I'd stake my life on it. The freeloading, heavy texting, 'pacing with child so you can't concentrate and, in the end, take the child yourself' and the 'constantly declared love' etc, etc - all cynical control mechanisms, designed to achieve exactly the reaction you give him. Sounds as if he's quite practised at it, too. And he doesn't have to pay a penny. Reeezult! I bet, Amykins, you've found yourself 'getting used to it', haven't you? So used to it you've forgotten what a proper relationship should be like. All the excuses you're making. And he throws you the odd bone, a promise, a bit of sex, bet he tells you he 'loves you' - classic, classic, classic! Ever watched water drain down a plug-hole? That's where all your self-respect, self-confidence and grasp on reality is going. If he wanted to be with you, HE WOULD BE. I wouldn't believe a word this cunt said. And do you really want a man like this as your partner, anyway? Thank god he hasn't moved in. Tell him to FUCK OFF, and once he's there, tell him to FUCK OFF some more - get him OUT OF YOUR LIFE; get your life together, you and the littl'uns, and get on with it - and most importantly, DO NOT attempt to make any future arrangements that rely on him, (re kids), once the OFF-FUCKING has been achieved. He will never stick to any arrangements and you will just find he uses any as a stick to beat/control you with and you'll never be able to get on with anything as you'll be, for instance, waiting for him every other Saturday morning to take kids out and he doesn't turn up - this will also REALLY upset the kids - and they'll remember that - forever - believe me. They may even resent YOU for it - into adulthood. On the bright side, the fact you've posted here is heartening so all is not lost. If you were really sunk into, and your clear reason clogged with, the mire of deceit and self-deceit you wouldn't have. You'd still be trying to convince yourself, in spite of all the plain-as-day evidence, all this was plausible. Also on the bright side, usually with men like this, once they realise the well has dried and you are no longer falling for their bullshit, they almost magically disappear, as it is no longer in their interest or worth the effort to maintain the fiction, and move on to the next poor, gullible cow. Amazing how easily they can shuck it all off; the 'disposable family'. And yet, this will be the saving of you. They are really not worth attempting to maintain ANY kind of relationship with. So please don't kid yourself that the fortnightly visits you may try to keep up are for the good of the children. I would go as far as to say, they are severely detrimental to their welfare and well being, short and long term. The sort of manipulation (and power over you, Amykins) displayed by this man, and so many others like him, does not confine itself to their partners/wives. I do so hope you haven't abandoned this thread. Look up 'primary sociopath' on google.

KaraStarbuckThrace Sun 24-Mar-13 07:41:16

Has it not occurred to you he is feeding his parents a tonne of bullshit as well.
He is manipulating you. He is emotionally and financially abusing you.
The fact your dd1 doesn't like him should be ringing enormous alarm bells. Making a minimum CSA payment does not a father make. He clearly only wants to look after your dd2 when it makes him look good.
I don't say the things to be unkind but because despite the unanimous verdict on here you still cannot see the wood for the trees.
Please try and step back and look at this situation from the outside. Hand on heart how would you feel if one of your daughters were in a relationship like this?

surfingbabies Sun 24-Mar-13 08:19:11

Are you claiming some sort of benefits that you couldn't claim if he moved in??
My DP and I were in a similar situ when we first got together, I had three children & a house and he had a good job, his own flat but loads of debt......he stayed at mine 3/4 nights a week but came for tea nearly every night. We lived like this for about 3 years so he could clear his debts and I like you would pay for everything! DP wanted a baby but I said no as not a healthy situ to bring a baby into.....
I actually loved our set up as I got quality time with my DC and I trusted him so I knew eventually we would be a was actually him that got annoyed with it & kept saying we don't feel like a proper family, I eventually let him move in after about 3 years.....he said he didn't care if he was in debt as long as we lived like a proper family as it wasn't fair on any of us but it wasn't setting a good example to my DC. We now have a 9 week old baby, he still has debts but he pays the minimum every month so we can be together smile
So mayb it will work out for you......
Sit him down and talk to him, tell him exactly how you feel. Let him know because if you don't you'll end up resenting him hmm
Good luck x

moondog Sun 24-Mar-13 08:21:39

Wow Garden, great post.
If more women in the world took your advice it would be a much better place for our children in particular.

mummysaidno Sun 24-Mar-13 08:56:50

Garden, I was surfing / lurking . I am in same boat as op. To a tee. Thank you for kicking me up the arse.

RandomMess Sun 24-Mar-13 09:10:48

Amy PLEASE give him his marching orders!!!

charlearose Sun 24-Mar-13 09:12:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Amykins, this situation is very, very wrong, on all counts.

What I can't understand is that he has managed to convince you that him lodging with his mate for free and allowing you to live the life of a single mum while he swans in and out of your children's lives whenever he feels like it is what's right for the family.

What is right for the family, regardless of the debt situation, is that you are all living together, supporting one another, with him a full part of your family.

If the rent does not differ if he moves in, what difference does it make if he lives at yours or lives at his friends?

Also, any decent father would take the hit on the debts, and manage the situation, to be able to be there for his family. He wouldn't opt out and live the life of a single man at his mates.

I earn a similar amount. I have a similar mount of debts. It hasn't stopped me moving in with DP, or making a family, or contributing to family life. It is a stretch but I manage it, and am doing well at paying it off.

Beyond the money - there is the issue of support and his relationship with your DC. The child you share screams when left with him BECAUSE SHE DOES NOT KNOW HIM WELL ENOUGH.

Seriously, read that again. Your child's father is so absent in her life that they cannot settle with him.

Do you really want that for your child?

The fact that he doesn't want to support you in the future too, shows you just what life with this man would be like. He is very selfish and you seem unable to see it

Anniegetyourgun Sun 24-Mar-13 09:48:37

But he's not even saying the right things. The correct response to a text informing you that your partner is sick is... well, I can think of quite a few responses that imply you actually give a shit about their feelings, but "are you horny" wouldn't come very high up in the list. Either he wasn't listening at all or he doesn't get the bit where someone else feeling sick means no, they're not particularly interested just now in serving your libido hmm

The happy story from surfingbabies notwithstanding, there's no indication Mr Cocklodger intends to step up to do his bit. His parents thinking he's great is not evidence of anything. Most parents do that. (I'm very sorry to hear yours don't. We don't get the family we deserve, we just get what hand Nature deals us; you, a loving, hard-working sweetie, get parents who you're estranged from, Mr Cocklodger gets supportive parents who think the sun shines out of his comfortably parked arse. There is little justice in the world.)

SundaysGirl Sun 24-Mar-13 09:51:55

Amy if this is your first time on mumsnet one or two posets can come across as a bit harsh and it can be intimidating for some people. What I have discovered over my time here though is that it is a rare thing where people are just being harsh for the sake of it on a relationships thread (AIBU is another matter!).

And the ones who seem a little more brusque are often the people who can cut through to the heart of the matter and seem to me to be very caring people who want to give good advice.

Just saying that because it might be a bit full on if you have not used these boards before.

One thing I wanted to add to what others have said is that it almost seems as though you are placing certain obstacles in your own way. you said you are worried about failing your degree which you have invested a lot of money in but don't want to look for childcare and have also booked two holidays which are going to cost more, especially if your partner is using the whole 'money for the families future' excuse to not contribute and move in with you properly.

You described your degree as essential so whether you deem it fair or not and yes in an ideal world the father ought to be helping with childcare, it is still cutting your own nose off to spite your face by not getting in some childcare to allow you to complete the degree, which in the long run will help you and the children.

Also it does seem glaringly obvious to someone not embroiled in this that your partner is using quite a lot of really crap excuses to avoid taking part in family life fully. The whole not helping out when you and the children have norovirus is very telling don't you think? He didn't want to wake you up with what? a sniffly nose? Or more likely he didn't want to hold your and the DC's hair when you puked and clean up sick?

He wasn't looking out for you all there, and it was a pretty pathetic excuse to use a cold for why he couldn't help out and even try to make out it was somehow for your benefit!

I hate to say something upsetting but do you know how most parents react when they know their partner and children are puking and shitting for England? With sympathy and with wanting to help out because it's bloody horrible to see them suffering like that. Sure we might not all love the idea of cleaning up puke cause, eh, who does? But the desire to care for and nurture, especially our children trumps that. He was too selfish to think that way which says a lot about how he feels about you and the children. Asking you if you are horny almost sounds like a purposeful rise to throw your situation in your face..who asks that when someone has the shits ffs?

Your partner comes across as extremely selfish and uncaring and it seems as though you are being taken for a huge ride.

However you do have options. You only have one year left of your degree. Why not get some childcare accessed and look into what is available for you as a single parent. He is not going to help, he is going to make life harder for you to complete the degree because you will be resentful and he will continue to drain you financially and emotionally.

Amykins35 Sun 24-Mar-13 11:20:44

Hi, I'm back. He is definitely not living with the ex wife! She lives 30 miles away and he has no way of getting there, not to mention the fact he despises her. The CSA money he pays would only cover one days child care per week - nowhere near enough - and I can only get child care help from uni for when I'm in lectures. I need to try and stop DD feeding to sleep so I can work at night I guess, it's just going to be difficult.

Phineyj Sun 24-Mar-13 11:27:55

Amy why not post on the Sleep thread about getting your daughter to settle herself to sleep? People may have some good tips there.

NotSuchASmugMarriedNow Sun 24-Mar-13 11:31:28

Why does he have no way of getting to his ex wife? How does he see the children that he had with her then?

Amykins35 Sun 24-Mar-13 11:32:46

Thanks. I've asked on a different website before but the problem is she doesn't eat much food, has always fed to sleep and co slept. I thought I'd be able to express for DP then she wouldn't bother waking so much... She just gets hysterical if I try anything different.

Amykins35 Sun 24-Mar-13 11:34:27

Because he doesn't have a car (he uses mine to drive our DD around). He doesn't see his other children.

Oh Amy. You surely don't need this twat in your life.

EggyFucker Sun 24-Mar-13 11:36:24

We are all wasting our time.

NotSuchASmugMarriedNow Sun 24-Mar-13 11:36:51

its just gets worse and worse doesn't it ladies sad

Anniegetyourgun Sun 24-Mar-13 11:37:23

He doesn't see his other children.

That, right there, says as much about him as the whole rest of the thread.

Amykins35 Sun 24-Mar-13 11:41:20

Surfing - that sounds similar to us. I admit I like having time alone with the kids, I just had our baby thinking I'd have help with her at night. I was achieving a first up until now but just don't know how I'm going to maintain it with no time.


You're never ever going to be content with this man so long as you live and breathe.

I also think you will mess up your degree chances and furthermore not complete the dissertation.

What is it that is stopping you from seeing this situation for what it really is?. Do you not think you deserve better from life?. Probably not so you were and remain the ideal person for this cocklodgers.

Amykins, I don't need to add my comments re. your cocklodger of a 'boyfriend' to what's already been said by these very wise women on Mumsnet, but something from your OP did strike me as unnecessarily adding to your stress.

Next year is my final year when I'll be doing my dissertation which is obviously a huge piece of work. Another student that's doing it this year said she's been in the library 4 days per week from 10am-11pm since September and still not finished.

I'm a final year mature student currently working on my dissertation. You really really don't need to spend 4 days a week 10am-11pm working on an undergraduate dissertation, unless you are seriously punching above your weight - its usually 'only' hmm 10,000 words long. This is the equivalent of 5 essays of 2,000 words over the course of around 8-9 months and is perfectly manageable. Please don't get into a panic about your 3rd year - its tough but you'll cope just fine! smile Concentrate on getting this useless vampire of a man out of your life first.

surfingbabies Sun 24-Mar-13 11:48:13

I agree with SundaysGirl
If its as bad as you say it is then I actually can't believe your allowing your children to witness such behaviour but more importantly if you have a 15 month old I take it your not working as you said you'd like to stay at home for 3 years if you have another one so I'm guessing your already claiming single parent benefits in which case you will have help with childcare but to be fair if your degree means that much to you then maybe you shouldn't have booked two holidays and paid for childcare with that money instead......I know you should be able to rely on the father but you know you can't and you knew that when you booked it.......where is the father of your other child, can he not help lighten the load for you? What about your parents? friends? Etc......
But like I said in my other to him, tell him how your feeling and tell him things need to change and then see what happens! You clearly love him and are not going to tell him where to go otherwise you would have done it by now so the only way your going to get anywhere is by talking to him otherwise nothing will change!
Stay positive and be strong! Show your children this is not normal by changing it for the better......good luck smile

tribpot Sun 24-Mar-13 11:48:13

So of course he's using up your petrol driving his child around and/or texting you to prevent you from getting any work done. This man truly is worse than useless.

He doesn't see his other children.

Of course he doesn't.

Amykins35 Sun 24-Mar-13 11:56:37

Thanks lapsed. Mine is much longer than 10000 words but still think she was exaggerating about how long it will take.
Surfing - I work from home at the moment, I don't claim benefits or have help with child care. I don't have family or friends to help me out. At the time I booked holidays DP had promised to help with DD and I hadn't realised that'd mean boring her to sleep! Ha. I will talk to him. Ideally I'd like to write a letter so I can say everything I want to without interruption but I don't even have time to do that.

flippinada Sun 24-Mar-13 12:01:45

Nothing really to add to the very sensible advice from others on this thread.

This man is a complete and utter waste of your physical and emotional energy. R

And he doesn't see his kids!

And he's not even 30 so god knows what he'll be like in a few years time.

TheCrackFox Sun 24-Mar-13 12:03:07

"he doesn't see his other children"

I could have no respect for a man like that and it doesn't bode well for your and your DCs future with him.

Amykins35 Sun 24-Mar-13 12:05:30

He was seeing them when I fell pregnant, in my defence. No defence for him though.

SissySpacekAteMyHamster Sun 24-Mar-13 12:06:19

He is absolutely taking you for a mug (and the friend who he lives with whilst paying nothing!).

He is a freeloader plain and simple and I'm sure if you decided not to fund him any longer he would find some other poor mug to move onto.

What exactly do you get out of the relationship? What do your children get out of it? You can't take them on holiday because he owes thousands of pounds? Their childhood doesn't include holidays, even though you could take them, because you will feel mean to him?

I'd be putting the kids first, he is doing a good enough job of putting himself first all on his own!

You really would be better on your own. As others have said, he is a cocklodger (the very definition of one).

Send him on his way please, you deserve so much better, as do your children.

Can't believe he'd happily have more kids when he doesn't even see the ones he does have, he sounds like an absolute prize, and not even 30! It just gets better.


flippinada Sun 24-Mar-13 12:07:07

Why do you think he stopped seeing then when you got pregnant?

EggyFucker Sun 24-Mar-13 12:08:41

Amy, what are you living off?

You claim no benefits, have no family support, are studying for a degree, paying for 2 holidays and
are supporting 4 people singlehandedly

How do you do it?

flippinada Sun 24-Mar-13 12:10:33

I think Amy mentioned above that she works from home EF

EggyFucker Sun 24-Mar-13 12:12:03

I'd like to know what that job is, so I can take it up myself

flippinada Sun 24-Mar-13 12:16:32

Yes, must admit I'd love a job like that.

Actually, maybe not as I'd never get out of my pjs grin.

LeChatRouge Sun 24-Mar-13 12:16:32

So, after 56239 people think that this is not a happy, fulfilling, secure, caring, loving relationship with ideals and morals to pass onto your DDs as they grow, that this 'man' is having his gateaux and eating the whole thing........

......tell us, Amy, what are you going to do?

surfingbabies Sun 24-Mar-13 12:19:13

that sounds similar to us. I admit I like having time alone with the kids, I just had our baby thinking I'd have help with her at night. I was achieving a first up until now but just don't know how I'm going to maintain it with no time.
So your saying he's changed since before you had his baby? Because if he was like this before then why did you have a baby knowing he was like it and knowing full well you were doing a degree? Why did you not wait till you qualified and wait until you knew things were 100% between you?
It's not your fault he's the way he is but it's your fault your now in a pickle because you knew what he was like......

surfingbabies Sun 24-Mar-13 12:28:21

Yes EggyFucker I'd like that job too.......what do you do Amy? I now don't understand why your doing a degree to become a teacher because you won't get the money your on now......I have a friend who's a teacher and she's married to a teacher with one child and they can't afford one holiday let alone two, yet your single, working, studying, paying for your DP and you can afford two.......I'm intrigued now smile

letseatgrandma Sun 24-Mar-13 12:42:46

I agree-I seriously wouldn't give up the job you've got to go into teaching; what on earth do you do from home that pays so highly? Believe me, (as a teacher) if you can earn enough to pay all the bills, food and 2 holidays whilst looking after a baby from home-you are not going to want to give that up to be out of the house from 7.30-6 plus working weekends/evenings for £21k.

surfingbabies Sun 24-Mar-13 12:58:14

Also DP on £45K but doesn't have a car? What does he do?

Why doesn't he have contact with his other DCs? Who decided this?

Why don't you have any friends to help? have you not lived there long? My friends and I help each other out all the time.......

showtunesgirl Sun 24-Mar-13 13:05:55

I'm sorry but none of the figures on this thread add up at all! Both on your side and his side. confused

BalloonSlayer Sun 24-Mar-13 13:12:16

"He thinks its ok that I'm paying for everything now because its for the families good long term. Hence if he contributed now it'd be longer til he could pay his debts and move in."

That is not a reason, nor is it an explanation. It is a THREAT. What he is saying is: "If you make me pay for my own food/rent/holiday/petrol ^I will not move in with you.^"

Can you not see that?

showtunesgirl Sun 24-Mar-13 13:21:31

But surely NOT helping with the children, NOT helping you with you career is damaging in the long term as well?

Planetofthedrapes Sun 24-Mar-13 13:29:24

OP, I reckon that MumsnetHQ could set up a new category for clock lodgers called Bumsnet, 'cos he's a cocklodging bumsmile

kinkyfuckery Sun 24-Mar-13 13:32:29

Wow, you really need to take a long hard look at all the facts you've put into this thread OP and think what advice you would give a friend in the same circumstances.

He is a leech. He is leeching from you, financially and emotionally. He will continue to do so until you say enough is enough.

Amykins35 Sun 24-Mar-13 13:36:54

I'm a freelance writer and a nanny. I Will continue to write when (if) I qualify as a teacher - have always wanted to be a teacher, nannying is for experience. Surfing - we were supposed to move in together when I was pregnant so I thought I'd have help with baby. He couldn't do/not do anything before then because we didn't have baby. DP doesn't need a car as he lives walking distance from work. His wife decided he could no longer see the kids, but he hasn't fought her on it.

Amykins35 Sun 24-Mar-13 13:38:40

But it isn't a threat to not move in because its him that wants to move in more than I want him to. I've said we can't live together until he sorts his life out.

Planetofthedrapes Sun 24-Mar-13 13:38:47

I meant cocklodger of course

Amykins35 Sun 24-Mar-13 13:40:14

Oh and I also had savings/money from previous marital home to pay towards degree.

flippinada Sun 24-Mar-13 13:44:51

His wife decided he could no longer see the kids..

Mmmm. Really?

Amykins35 Sun 24-Mar-13 13:57:33

Yes, really. It isn't a lie, I was there when she told him.

flippinada Sun 24-Mar-13 14:01:51

And he just agreed, did he?

Obviously doesn't think much of his children.

Amykins35 Sun 24-Mar-13 14:05:12

He said he'd take to court but hasn't despite his parents offering to pay legal costs.

dopeysheep Sun 24-Mar-13 14:05:44

Wives can't just 'decide' that fathers can't see their kids. If he was a decent human being he'd be taking her to court to get to see them.
You've got yourself a real prince there amy. Why the fuck does he say he wants another baby?

dopeysheep Sun 24-Mar-13 14:07:54

It's a shame you can't fight as hard for yourself as you can for this apparent nobcheese of a man.

FrequentFlyerRandomDent Sun 24-Mar-13 14:11:00

What do you want from your relationship with him?

To me, he seems to not be your partner, someone who supports your endeavours emotionally, physically and financially, but an occasional boyfriend.

You are.not involved in any of the choices he makes. You witness him take decisions but you are not part of the decision making process.

If his debt does exist, did you sit with him and the bank manager? Did you weigh up the best options for you as a family, e.g. Several projected family budgets with income/outgoings, showing various level of repayments, etc.?

What would you like to happen going forward?

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 24-Mar-13 14:11:49

Amy, why have you told him he can't move in? I don't understand that.

BalloonSlayer Sun 24-Mar-13 14:12:02

Uh, OK so you have gone from:

Also, it's gone from having a baby together in a loving committed relationship where we were moving in together to him not living with us until our child is potentially almost 3.5 years old. Not to mention the fact this isn't good for either child, it means I do absolutely everything for them. in your OP


But it isn't a threat to not move in because its him that wants to move in more than I want him to.

Just now. You really ARE in terrible denial.

If you don't really want him to move in then what's your problem?

flippinada Sun 24-Mar-13 14:12:29

Yes, why does he want more kids when he doesn't give a shit about the ones he already has?

It's like those idiots who get a puppy or kitten cos it's cute then can't be bothered with it, except a million times worse.

pinkyredrose Sun 24-Mar-13 14:19:18

OP when are you going to are this freeloading tosser for what he is?

pinkyredrose Sun 24-Mar-13 14:19:44

see not 'are'

cjel Sun 24-Mar-13 14:24:38

Your original post started am I a mug? YES YES YES> but you have spent a lot of time telling us all the reasons why he isn't as bad as you have told us he is.

BestestBrownies Sun 24-Mar-13 14:30:37

Amy I want to give you a good shake and shout WAKE UP WOMAN!!! until you do. Your self esteem must be at rock bottom and I feel very sad for you. Please don't allow this pathetic loser to suck you dry like this. Listen to the advice you've had on here, from other women seeing your situation objectively. Your future with this total loser will be a hard, miserable one. You and your children deserve better.

AllOverIt Sun 24-Mar-13 14:39:44

What's the point of posting OP if you're not going to take on board any of the advice.

He sounds like he's absolutely full of shit.

Move on. Things are never going to change. Or carry on bring miserable.

It's up to you.

dopeysheep Sun 24-Mar-13 14:53:26

It's like watching someone putting their hand in a fire and complaining it burns. People then say 'take your hand out' but still the person keeps their hand in the flames.
"Oh well I guess charred fingers are alright once you get used to it."

ZorbaTheHoarder Sun 24-Mar-13 14:55:28

Hi Amy, you must be feeling a bit battered by all the messages on here at the

but please understand that the posters all have your best interests at heart,

unlike your 'd'p, who clearly doesn't give two hoots about you or any of his

children. Try to work out why you are not seeing through his endless bullshit,

which is designed to give him a comfortable life, with no worries, while you

suffering, and will continue to suffer, mentally, financially, socially, career-wise

and in lots of other ways. How can you possibly think he would be a half-way

decent to the child you share when he can't be bothered to see his other

children? Absolutely nothing he says to you makes any sense or is intended to

make your situation better. He will continue to bleed you dry, if you let him.

Amykins35 Sun 24-Mar-13 15:02:58

Yes I agree he should've been to court to arrange contact a long time ago. I'm not defending him, I'm just pointing out his/my-up until now- reasoning. I do not want him to just move in while he hasn't sorted his children out, hasn't sorted out a better way of paying his debts and until he is in a position to contribute in every way.

AllOverIt Sun 24-Mar-13 15:06:36

No one thinks he should just 'move in'.

It's like talking to a brick wall


ahem smile

Snazzynewyear Sun 24-Mar-13 15:10:19

He is in a position to contribute - it would just mean that paying off his debts would take longer. In the meantime you are struggling doing night wakings etc alone. Don't see why you are so willing to take on extra hardship yourself to allow him to pay off debts that are nothing to do with you. He should be contributing both financially and in the sense of being there to support you, his partner, and your daughter. If you're letting him get away with not doing that, why? What are you actually worried will happen? I would bet on it being that if he is required to do these (perfectly normal and reasonable) things, the relationship will fall apart. You are giving him a much better deal than you are giving yourself or your kids. Why is his comfort and happiness so much more important than yours or that of your daughters?

flippinada Sun 24-Mar-13 15:20:01

I think the posts are coming from a place of frustration.

It seems like this guy has everyone exactly where he wants them.

There's something really chilling and horrible about a parent who can walk out of his children's lives with barely a shrug of indifference.

Amykins35 Sun 24-Mar-13 15:29:06

I think I'm going to speak to his mum and see if he's been lying about his input/if she will support me in giving him a kick up the backside to sort everything out.

Snazzynewyear Sun 24-Mar-13 15:33:12

You said his parents think the sun shines out of his backside so I don't think you'll have any joy, to be honest. See if you can find out more about his contributions, by all means, but why don't you want to ask him to step up and get his life sorted yourself? You said he depends on you for everything - so why would't he listen to you if you said this was really important?

Amykins35 Sun 24-Mar-13 15:42:51

Because he's useless and buries his head in the sand. His parents do think he's great which makes me think they don't know the truth. His mum asked last time if he'd heard anything from court about the kids, he told her access would be sorted in the next part of their divorce. Yes, he's not divorced either so you can all tell me I'm an idiot a bit more.

Turniphead1 Sun 24-Mar-13 15:52:17

Amy are you just taking from these posts of wise advice that YOU are in idiot? That's not what everyone is saying. They are saying that HE is (worse than) an idiot.

Please please listen to what people are telling you. Which is that you are worth more than this. No one posting here has the perfect relationship I am sure. You won't be the first otherwise intelligent person to fall for a useless waste If space. But you do now have the wherewithal to realise this must end.

Someone this feckless will always be so. He won't change. Or sort his life out. Or get a kick up the arse from his Mum (really? Really?) and change.

There needs to be a standard fixed post on relationships saying "if your partner behaves so badly that you are considering running it his mummy HE IS A TWAT and you need to LTB".

EggyFucker Sun 24-Mar-13 16:03:03

Amy, if all you have taken from all these posts trying to help you see that you are in a rotten situation (because you did ask, remember...) then it really has been a waste of everyone's time, including your own.

You are seeing a married man, had a child by him. He offers you no support, doesn't see his other kids, makes your life harder than it should, leeches off you and tells you lies. Staying with him is going to wreck your career prospects.

What did you think the responses were going to be like ?

EggyFucker Sun 24-Mar-13 16:03:40

if that is all you have taken

showtunesgirl Sun 24-Mar-13 16:17:28

Surely alarm bells are ringing here. If he won't take care of his other children, what makes you think he will take care of yours?

And he's a grown man, if running and telling on him to his mummy is what is required, I think you need to ask how old you both really are?

Snazzynewyear Sun 24-Mar-13 16:36:58

I would rehearse having the following conversation with him:

'X, I've been thinking and it would be best for us as a family if you moved in here asap rather than waiting. I'm going to find it harder and harder to do all the work with the DDs and my university work too. I would like us to share that'.

If at that point he says 'but what about my debts / I thought you wanted me to pay my debts off first?' then:

'Yes, I have thought that up till now but now I can see that that doesn't really allow us to live as a couple and a family. I want you to be a dad who is there everyday for his daughter. I know that mean it will take longer to pay off your debts but I really think it's worthwhile and will be a better life for us and the DDs for the next few years'.

If he says 'yes, but you know I won't be able to pay anything towards the household', do an edited version of the above:

''I know that's how we've thought about it up till now but I think we need to change our priorities so that we can live as a couple and a family. I want you to be a dad who is there everyday for his daughter and contributes to the cost of running the house. I know that mean it will take longer to pay off your debts but I really think it's worthwhile and will be a better life for us and the DDs for the next few years'.

Seriously, try having this conversation and see how he responds. If he is keen to think about paying in and doing his bit (and now, not at some hypothetical future time) then that's better than we might have expected. If he panics and puts you off, then you can see where this is going.

NotSuchASmugMarriedNow Sun 24-Mar-13 16:48:28

You say he doesn't drive so when he used to see his children, before you became pregnant, how did he manage to see his children then.

KitchenandJumble Sun 24-Mar-13 16:50:13

There is clearly no financial reason for him not to move in. He could live rent free but still contribute to the household by taking care of his daughter (and your older daughter), helping with the housework, etc. It makes absolutely no logical sense for him to claim that he is saving money by living separately.

However, I would never let him move in under the circumstances. He sounds utterly useless as a father. He already has three (?) children, two (?) of whom he never sees, one of whom he doesn't have a meaningful relationship with. And he isn't even 30 yet. What a prize.

In your shoes, I hope I would end the relationship right now.

EggyFucker Sun 24-Mar-13 16:53:23

I presume Op used to take him to his marital home to see his other children ?

Like you do

Snazzynewyear Sun 24-Mar-13 17:09:05

Kitchen I completely get your reservations on that score, but I think it would be illuminating for Amy to see how he would respond to the suggestion.

notthesamenametoday Sun 24-Mar-13 17:57:11

Well I've read most of this thread now, and I must say there is an obvious consensus about this guy - that he's a total waste of space, a cocklodger, a disengaged parent, a selfish manchild, etc.

I'd like to offer another perspective.

Only kidding. This guy is all those things and more.

This comment of OP's, a few pages back, really struck me...

Holidays- I said DD wants to go away for her birthday, can you get time off and would you like to come? He said yes, I booked it there and then as was in travel agents and he hasn't offered a penny nor will he.

There is so much wrong with this... why does he not know, or think about, what DD would like to do for her birthday anyway? Why do you not know if he might be able to get time off? Why do you say would you like to come? You are planning, unilaterally, a holiday for you and your family and you ask your 'partner' almost as an afterthought, because he is so far on the periphery.

It's crazy. This is not a partnership. There is a family here, but he's not part of it. You are a single mum and you need to get on with your life as a single mum, stop having any hopes or expectations of this deadwood.

And the fact that you had noro and he asked if you were 'horny'. Ugh.

expatinscotland Sun 24-Mar-13 18:22:13

Bet you London to a brick she falls pregnant to this waster again, an accident, of course.

Jux Sun 24-Mar-13 18:41:01

He's making excuses. i wouldn't have him anywhere near me until I knew the full extent of his debts, who to, what repayments are, where all his other money is going. You're never going to be a family if he won't tell you that, anyway.

And atm, he's going to cost you your First. Unforgivable.

Get him to call each of the organisations he owes money to and negotiate repayments.

expatinscotland Sun 24-Mar-13 18:50:11

He's a cocklodger
He's married
He's got, how many kids is it now that he can't be arsed with?
He's a freeloader
He's in tons of debt
Your child doesn't like him

But what to do? Yeah, try to keep him! As long as there are enablers, there will be cocklodgers.

CajaDeLaMemoria Sun 24-Mar-13 18:58:05

Who does he owe his debts too, and how did he get them?

It seems odd that he is so young and has such a large amount of debt that needs to be repaid at such a fast rate.

I suspect everything isn't rosy here.

pinkyredrose Sun 24-Mar-13 19:03:41

I wouldn't be suprised if he's got other children that the OP dosn't know about.

OP have you been to his friends house where he says he's staying? Can't help thinking there could be another version of you out there and he's cocklodging between the two of you!

Also have you seen his repayment plan, exactly how much he owes and what he pays to whom and when the date of the final payment will be?

He's so obviously stringing you along, you just can't or don't want to see it.

AllOverIt Sun 24-Mar-13 19:11:47

I'm going to back away from this thread now. The OP clearly doesn't actually want any advice, considering the response is unanimous and she's ignoring it all.

Good luck OP. You're going to need it

Lueji Sun 24-Mar-13 19:19:53

His wife decided he could no longer see the kids, but he hasn't fought her on it.

Do you even wonder why?!
a) why she doesn't allow it
b) why he hasn't fought it

Get rid already.
I can't possibly understand what's holding you.

madonnawhore Sun 24-Mar-13 19:25:36

Trying and completely failing to understand what on earth you see in this guy and why on earth you'd want to stay with him.

He sounds like a total cunt.

Are you mad OP?

starfishmummy Sun 24-Mar-13 19:27:34

Op - are you sure this is your first time on mn? This thread is remarkably like one I have read before.

Amykins35 Sun 24-Mar-13 23:33:13

Yes definitely first time starfish.
He has three children with his ex. He does drive and used to have a car he used to see them but when it broke he didn't replace it as he was no longer allowed contact by then. He says he will get a contact order as part of the divorce but he hasn't seen them for almost 2 years now. Even if he is granted contact he can't travel to get them and doesn't have a home for them to stay at. Maybe he thinks his relationship with them is magically on hold til his debts are repaid? Who knows.

showtunesgirl Sun 24-Mar-13 23:37:08

Now I don't know a whole lot about divorce and contact etc but I thought that a parent had to have done something pretty awful for there to be a complete no contact order?

expatinscotland Sun 24-Mar-13 23:42:06

Can't travel to see his kids. Can't pay anyone rent. Gees, other than spreading his seed round he can't do a lot of FA, can he?

expatinscotland Sun 24-Mar-13 23:45:17

And he wanted another kid?

Jux Mon 25-Mar-13 00:31:02

It's pretty shocking, op, you must admit. The level of communication between you is atrocious! You know virtually nothing about him, not the extent of his debts, not why he doesn't see his children. H
Do you actually know his address? I think you should go round there with a shirt or pair of socks or something which he had accidentally left at yours. See who and how he's living.

Have you met any of his friends?

Access would be sorted in the next part of their divorce.

Yeah, when hell freezes over... hmm.

Am also still v. confused about exactly WHAT sort of undergraduate dissertation is 'much longer' than 10,000 words - the average is 10-12,000 (max) words.

Don't understand the figures here at all. Partner on £40K+ per year and still sofa surfing? We've had massive debts in the past but never had to pay off £2K+ per month??

Mimishimi Mon 25-Mar-13 01:24:42

"Op - are you sure this is your first time on mn? This thread is remarkably like one I have read before. "

It's sounds like a thread that was on here last year or year before but from the perspective of his ex-wife. She had three kids, he had affair with a single mum who got pregnant (not sure if she knew he was married when it started), told his ex-wife he'd keep paying mortgage on their marital home but didn't, moved into a friend's house rather than OW's. It wasn't that long ago and it had heaps of responses...

LittleEdie Mon 25-Mar-13 02:12:19

You're basically paying off his debts.

LittleEdie Mon 25-Mar-13 02:14:03

...and he hasn't seen his kids in 2 years?!

CheerfulYank Mon 25-Mar-13 04:19:18

Good Lord this is beyond taking the piss.

May I just ask, what the fuck has happened to real men?!
It seems like every other day I hear of some fuckwit or another like this. My grandfathers, great uncles, dad, etc, were all wild, all drinkers, but they'd have died of shame if they didn't "do for their kids".

I have friends with useless fathers to their children who tell me all the time that I'm "lucky" DH is such a good guy, so "lucky" that he coaches DS' teams and works hard to provide for him, etc. I'M NOT 'LUCKY', IT'S JUST WHAT ADULTS ARE SUPPOSED TO DO!

Sorry if I hijacked blush but it just infuriates me.

GardenPath Mon 25-Mar-13 04:53:46

Quite right, CY! Infuriates the fuck out of me, too. 'Lucky' has nothing to do with it. Why should we have to consider ourselves 'lucky' FFS???!!! My God, brace yourselves girls, equality is centuries off, yet.

GardenPath Mon 25-Mar-13 05:01:31

“His wife stayed in the marital home then didn't pay the mortgage for months. They also had loans and credit cards”. Well, I should think she’s entitled; she has to keep a roof over 3 kids. But was she a SAHM or not? She must have a good job to pay for childcare and a mortgage, even supposing he is paying CSA. But are you sure he’s not supposed to be paying the mortgage? Isn’t the usual arrangement for him to pay that until the youngest is 18? I’m not up with all that sort of stuff, but if he is on 40k what does the CSA decide on child maintenance? Or has he pleaded poverty ‘due to debt’ to lower the CSA? If that is the ‘debt’ he’s talking about that’s going to last for years. Not 18 months/2 years. How do you know he’s paying for his kids?
“We were planning to move in together when I was pregnant as that's when our contracts on respective properties ran out. However, some extra debts from his marriage came to light [did they now? What, just out of the blue?] and we couldn't afford to do so....”. Sorry, why not? “All his money (around 40k salary) is going into paying off his debts.” That must be one hell of a debt. If he’s really managed to run up debt like that and he isn’t even thirty those alarms would be going off in my head like just before the Luftwaffe hit the East End. “His wife decided he could no longer see the kids, but he hasn't fought her on it.” Now, why am I not surprised? “Yes, really. It isn't a lie, I was there when she told him”. So, she’s standing there, having been dumped on by her feckless wastrel of an ex, no doubt he put her through the mill, just as he has you, three kids to look after now as a single parent – he’s there, WITH his new girlfriend (pregnant/with baby?), and she tells him he can’t see the kids? No shit? The unreasonable, evil cow. And I wonder what he’s told his mum? What do his parents think of his carry on? And you don’t have any family or friends? Outside contact? Apart from his parents and his mum thinks the sun shines, etc.? So you’re socially isolated. No support. Nobody (apart from us) to say “hang on a minute...”. No benchmark. Nothing for you to measure by; to act as a reality check. He’s your only friend? He must have seen you coming. This gets classicerer and classicerer. And if you’d had friends, he’d probably have isolated you from them. Sulked when they came round or when you wanted to see them or go out with them. Knocking you up is one excellent way to defuse you; render you vulnerable, isolated and manageable. You can’t get about with a bairn to see to so he’ll mostly know where you are. This type generally go for single parents for that very reason. And since he’s your only friend, you’re afraid of the loneliness if you get shot of him. And stupidly, stupidly, when the unhappiness (and loneliness, as he’s not there as a proper partner) really gets to you, the only person you feel you want to, or can, talk it out with is the very person who’s causing you all the grief. Bit like the ‘Stockholm Syndrome’.
Do you really want to be doing this in a years time; two years? Five? Ten? Get it over with. Pull the tooth. Lance the boil. Now. I can guarantee, 100% to the power of a million, in a couple of years time you'll be thinking " What the fuck was I doing with that prick?"


Loulybelle Mon 25-Mar-13 06:29:53

Wow OP, you bagged yourself a major loser, dont see his kids yet wants more.

Its almost like, he wants to dangle another baby infront of like "See i do want to live with you, so lets have a baby, thats a sign of my commitment"

But its not a sign of commitment is it?

Your in complete denial over this man, hes one of lifes drains, get a grip, your a mother arent you. If you DD dont like him, then take that as a sign.

Its men like that, make me think, thank fuck im single.

deXavia Mon 25-Mar-13 07:26:58

Can I ask what you would do if this was you DD's partner when she has grown up? You do know this is turning out to be her model of a "normal" relationship?
Honestly get rid, and starting working on building up a network of friends and acquaintances - if not for your sake, then for their's

akaWisey Mon 25-Mar-13 08:24:00

What GardenPath said.

Excellent post.

KatieMiddleton Mon 25-Mar-13 08:36:19

You sound like the poster who had the partner who hid from his kids at the ice rink: have a child but do not live together, she has child from previous relationship. He's a waster who doesn't step up to his responsibilities or see his children from first relationship. She is deluded.

How sad that there are two of you in this world who do not understand you deserve more than this half life waiting for this feckless idiot?

KatieMiddleton Mon 25-Mar-13 08:37:43

He's stil not divorced? No surprise. I nearly said as much but it all seems rather pointless

pinkyredrose Mon 25-Mar-13 09:25:54

Can't travel to see his 3 kids? He's heard of trains and buses right?

Sorry but an excuse of a man who ignores his own kids for 2 yrs is not someone I'd waste my time with. Don't you see that aa a massive red flag?

He left his previous family in the marital home so he would be duty bound to pay the mortgage and keep a roof over his childrens heads surely?

OP have you been to his friends house where he says he's staying?

MorrisZapp Mon 25-Mar-13 09:59:52

I'm with norks.

suburbophobe Mon 25-Mar-13 10:21:06

Not read the whole topic.

Probably tells people he pays more towards us too though.

So not only is he a freeloading cocklodger, he's a liar to boot to make himself look better than he is.


You Amy, you seem to be a mug of the highest order.

Just read your own thread.

ChunkyEasterChick Mon 25-Mar-13 10:50:01

I'm so sorry that you don't feel good enough about yourself that you feel this is all you deserve.

As a teacher (with 2DC) I can tell you that a) you need to get your confidence & self-esteem sorted before you enter that classroom otherwise you will be in hell & b) without my DH doing the cooking, his fair share (& more) of the housework etc I couldn't have coped, particularly in the first couple of yrs. And that was before kids.

Please read the thread with an open mind and see him for what he is. Either a useless, pathetic waste of space at best (ha!) or a manipulative, lying bastard who has you exactly where he wants you - in his control.

Amykins35 Mon 25-Mar-13 11:00:07

There isn't a no contact order. His wife said he couldn't see the kids, he didn't go to court to try to do so. Jux - I haven't said I don't know the extent of his debts or why he doesn't see his kids. I do know both, thank you. I don't understand why he doesn't go to court to sort out contact, or why he doesn't seek debt advice to make it more manageable - there is a difference. Lapsed - my dissertation includes 12000 words about the 'process' of doing my dissertation, which is essentially writing a book. Only the first 4 chapters must be included but in order to write the dissertation accurately/increase the chances of getting a First it would beneficial to write the entire book. Mimishimi - doubt it was his wife if that's what you're trying to infer. We did not have an affair, it was his wife that had an affair. GardenPath - His wife doesn't live in the marital home anymore, it has since been sold. She gets at least £700 per month in maintenance for his children and subsequent children she's had alone, she doesn't work and claims benefits as far as I know. Also, she wasn't dumped by him. She had an affair. I'm not defending him, it just annoys me when people assume we must have had an affair and left this poor woman with the children. She left him, took the kids, got pregnant by someone else, left them for someone else, convinced DP to help her borrow money to rent a house and has now left him to pay the debts. Yes I know where he's living.
I know you all disagree with what I'm doing, and obviously I wouldn't be posting if I was happy with it, but if we hadn't had our daughter and him not living with us wasn't affecting my degree I wouldn't be too fussed. I think there are a lot of relationships where the man helps/supports the woman if she has debts/baggage but if a woman helps a man to do the same then he is labelled a cocklodger.

kinkyfuckery Mon 25-Mar-13 11:05:53

Why hasn't he got contact sorted through the court?

Amykins35 Mon 25-Mar-13 11:09:28

He is intimidated by his ex. She makes him ill with stress, puts him down, badmouths him to the kids, constantly text and called him berating him. He has admitted he feels better since not having her in his life anymore, and he feels that the kids are better off out of the conflict. I personally would (and have - I am separated too) face my ex whatever they're like in order to have a relationship with my children but he is not a strong person at all. Not an excuse, I know. But you asked his reason.

ChunkyEasterChick Mon 25-Mar-13 11:13:04

I'm sorry Amy I just don't buy it. You came here to ask "am I being a mug?". Everyone says "yes". You say "but....". Everyone says "That's even worse, you're def a mug." You say "He's not that bad really...".

What did you expect from the thread? We can't MAKE him change.
We can't make the debts go away.
We can't predict the future even if those that have been there, done that, can have a bloody good guess

You are not supporting him through a tough time or a rough patch. You are doing EVERYTHING alone whilst he dips in & out of family life.

You say, if it wasn't for your degree, you'd be happy. Well, you DO have your degree to worry about and HE ISN'T HELPING OR SUPPORTING YOU!!!

I'm sorry to admit but I'm hiding the thread now because, until you come out of denial and realise he could and should do more, its not worth my time.

I really hope, for your dc & your own sakes, he either changes massively to help you more or you wake up & smell the coffee soon...

All the best.

CajaDeLaMemoria Mon 25-Mar-13 11:16:02

Hang on -

Yes, men and women do support their partners to deal with their debt and baggage. That happens.

But your partner has already told you that he won't be supporting you back. He doesn't see this as a favor you are doing him, he doesn't appreciate what you do. After you spend years helping him to pay his debts, paying for everything and raising your children, HE ISN'T GOING TO LET YOU DO THE SAME. He won't work and let you be a SAHP, he won't support you financially through pregnancy. You'll just support him forever, without him ever stepping up to try and make your life easier, as you have his.

And everyone here is desperately trying to show you that he does this repeatedly, that he's taking you for a complete mug, and that you'll be broken when this ends because that's what men like him do.

FrequentFlyerRandomDent Mon 25-Mar-13 11:25:46

Amy I realise that you are answering posts rather than defending him.

However it does seem to be all about him.

I am asking again: what would you honestly want your relationship to be like, forgetting all other factors (ex wife, debt, etc)?

pinkyredrose Mon 25-Mar-13 13:02:42

OP you deserve better. We can all see that and I'm sure deep down you know it too.

expatinscotland Mon 25-Mar-13 14:10:35

'I know you all disagree with what I'm doing, and obviously I wouldn't be posting if I was happy with it, but if we hadn't had our daughter and him not living with us wasn't affecting my degree I wouldn't be too fussed. I think there are a lot of relationships where the man helps/supports the woman if she has debts/baggage but if a woman helps a man to do the same then he is labelled a cocklodger.'

Him not living with you is affecting your degree how, because you said he does nothing? How on Earth is his living with you going to help?

You're determined to hang on to this utter loser and have him move in. You'll have another kid with him and continue cocking up your life because ultimately, this is working for you, no matter how unhappy you and your kids are. That's your life and your poor kids'. I feel sorry for them.

Best of luck.

Amy, Amy, Amy.

You don't seem to be listening to anyone. Why don't you listen to yourself.

"He doesn't pay anything towards rent, food or bills here though he does pay maintenance towards our baby - though that's partly to reduce the CSA payment for his children from his marriage I suspect."

You honestly think this is how people in relationships behave to each other? Really, honestly you think that?

"I said that I wouldn't like a baby if I couldn't stay home with them for at least the first three years (personal preference) and he said that in that case we wouldn't be able to have another one as 'his wages wouldn't be enough to support us."

I have to suggest counselling. Find out why your expectations of your "partner" are so low they are almost non-existant.

Jux Mon 25-Mar-13 14:49:58

Amy, I was all set to get a First, like you though I was an undergrad. My PhD was all set up, supervisors waiting in the wings. Then I lost it, couldn't get the time to study, the people around me wouldn't let me concentrate or think or give me time to write. I got a mediocre 2:1. That changed everything, all my prospects changed from glowing to dim. I graduated in '97 and the wonderful possibilities in my life then are ashes now, tossed away in the wind.

Please don't let this happen to you.

pinkyredrose Mon 25-Mar-13 14:59:34

jux I got a 2:1 and never thought it was mediocre!

Jux Mon 25-Mar-13 15:30:29

Sorry, pinkyredrose, I didn't mean it like that! My Tutor had said there were good 2:1s (67+%), average 2:1s (65/66%) and mediocre 2:1s. If you wanted to do postgrad then you needed a 1st or a good 2:1.

CheerfulYank Mon 25-Mar-13 17:04:28

I'm starting a movement. It's going to be called "Stop Doin' It With Worthless Assholes".

I may need time to come up with something more succinct. I'll let you know how it goes over this side of the pond.

pinkyredrose Mon 25-Mar-13 17:22:56

that's ok jux !

EggyFucker Mon 25-Mar-13 18:04:39

Count me in as a recruit, CY smile

meddie Mon 25-Mar-13 18:22:44

Amy his story just doesn't ring true.
You're obviously happy to support him because nothing anyone is saying here is convinving you that this guy is just a cocklodger, so why can he not move in with you?

He isn't paying you rent. or his mate rent, so why doesn't he just move in full time and continue not to pay rent, but at least contribute housework and his fair share of childcare to at least lessen your burden and help you study?
You are supporting him financially at the moment anyway, but yet he is choosing not to move in and be a part of family life, though financially it really wouldn't make that much difference to him.

At least ask yourself why he is choosing not to move in?

At the moment he's got his cake an eating it. He gets rent free accommodation, a regular shag and gets to play daddy when he feels like it, without any real permanent commitment to you or the kids. No wonder he doesn't want to change that and is offering up excuses so the status quo doesn't change.

pinkyredrose Mon 25-Mar-13 18:36:13

I think the OP has flounced.

Hopefully we've all given her food for thought though.

BranchingOut Mon 25-Mar-13 20:48:54

Amy, if you are out there, please keep posting. You have had some tough comments on this thread, but the support on MN can be amazing.

No one is trying to make you feel like a mug/stupid/an idiot. People are just angry at this waste of space of a person and his failure to be a decent partner, father and human being.

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