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My DH is conducting a flirty private message chat on Facebook - not with me!

(747 Posts)
JoySchtick Wed 20-Mar-13 23:41:40

I saw on my DH's Facebook messages that he has been flirting with a woman - 'ooh you're so sexy', 'you're very cute', she putting kisses on messages.

It is definitely in no way innocent and just friends but I really don't think they have DTD. It all seems like the beginning of something rather than that they have gone the whole way.

I had an inkling there was something not right and so I snooped.

I do not have any DCs - he does, not with me, from a previous relationship.

I feel weirdly calm and shaky at the same time but what do I do?

Do I confront him? But that could just mean that he is more careful to hide it in future. I don't want to bust in all guns blazing - I want to do what is right for me! I just don't know what my options are.

I hate lies and I can't cope with them at all.

Advice anyone?

Naysa Wed 20-Mar-13 23:51:57

If I was you I'd screen print these but don't tell him you know. That way if he tries to delete you have proof. Email them to yourself/print them an dhide them and make sure he can find them.

I'd keep an eye on his fb and see if it goes further. If it did I would be getting screen prints of everything and then I'd be getting my affairs in order to leave.

Good luck.

JoySchtick Thu 21-Mar-13 00:12:39

Yes, that makes sense, but it seems really strange to me to just carry on as normal and put on a 'game face' when I know he's flirting away from home.

I'm basically just sitting back and waiting for him to start an affair. That seems a really odd thing to do to me.

Screen grabs are a must though.

Anyone else discovered the green shoots of an affair? What did you do?

Madlizzy Thu 21-Mar-13 00:22:16

I'm not one to sit and wait. I'd want to know what's going on right now, and why he's doing this. If you can nip this in the bud, you may be able to continue your relationship, providing he's honest and repentant. If not, then kick him to the kerb.

I admire women who can carry on as if nothing was going on when it blatently is. How do they do it? How do they share a joke, have sex, make plans knowing that something's not right?

Maybe you should tell him that you're not stupid, you know something's going on and he needs to come clean Right Now. You could put it down to enhanced feminine intuition if you don't want to confess to snooping (but get those screen shots). What caused the inkling that something wasn't right? How do you think he'd react?

Boosterseat Thu 21-Mar-13 00:26:49

No experience but lots of sympathy

Does he have any previous form you are aware of? Do you know why he and his DCs mother broke up?

Please try toremember the ball is firmly in your court at the moment.

Knowledge is power.

JoySchtick Thu 21-Mar-13 01:01:14

Exactly Tall - how do, you know, have a normal relationship with someone when you are lying to them? it's obviously possible, cheaters do it!

I snooped because he'd become very attached to his phone.

I will get screenshots and definitely won't say anything until after that. I need to get an opportunity to do that though.

Booster thanks for sympathy. will answer other questions in morning. very low battery.

sleep tight.

JoySchtick Thu 21-Mar-13 07:26:41

Aagh! Went online to try to take screenshots. There was an unread message from OW (Or Whatever she is). I have just seen that DH is on Facebook on his phone.

How am I going to get a copy of all their messages if they are always on there 24/7 flirting the pants off each other?

Also if I log on as him then it will show up on chat - unless I turn it off but that seems problematic.

I just want to get a copy / screenshot before he has a chance to delete.

Tall - how do I think he will react if I ask him if something is going on? I think he will deny, minimise and blame me.

JoySchtick Thu 21-Mar-13 07:55:43

Thank you all so much for your replies.

I have a horrible feeling I'm going to need MNers. Too miserable now to find out how to do the sad face, but that is me, sad face.

I've copied some of the messages. It's not all of them, it said there were around 200 but it was quite fiddly to load all of the old ones and I didn't think I had much time so just grabbed what I could.

It's not great; there's a fair bit of sex fantasy stuff, and sweet little good night messages from my DH. He can be so sweet, that's what's so horrible, seeing him giving all that nice part of himself to someone else when he hasn't really been sharing it with me for a while.

It definitely hasn't gone further than messages, although DH has recently suggested meeting up. That suggestion was in the messages I read but didn't copy as I was in a panic not to get caught out.

I doon't want to have to deal with all this rubbish now. I've had a really, really tough last few years and have only in the last few months really felt able to get on with life and enjoy it.

I'm fed up with people not being honest and decent and just trustworthy.

AgathaF Thu 21-Mar-13 08:10:39

Just tell him you know he is having a flirty relationship with another woman (but not how you know), and what does he intend doing about it?

Hopefully, it will burst the bubble, he will realise what a prick he has been and do the right thing/s. If not, well, at least you know where you stand.

It must be almost impossible to carry on as normal and see where things go once you know what is happening.

Distrustinggirlnow Thu 21-Mar-13 09:04:54

So sorry to read you're going through this OP

For me, the conversation went something like this....

" I want you to tell me who xxx is. If you lie to me then I am taking the DC and I am going. "

I then said something about being very certain that that was what I would do. I was then quiet. It was hard but you must stay quiet. There is a huge temptation to speak in the ensuing silence that will undoubtedly come as he computes what you have just said and is trying to frantically come up with a plausible excuse reason.

I was extremely calm, no tantrums and tears, just me speaking in a very low calm voice.

I still didn't get the whole truth mind you, I dug a bit more to discover that blush

Do you think he's been emailing her too or does it just look like FB?

Is he at work now? Can u get on there again now? Is the OW someone that you or he already know?

Will sit down with a brew and chat if you would like.

SissySpacekAteMyHamster Thu 21-Mar-13 09:08:53

I'd be very tempted to let them arrange a meet up and turn up to it.

Saying that though, I really don't think I could hold my tongue and would have it out with him. I would be asking him to have the good grace to finish this relationship with me before starting his next one!

Do you know who the OW is? Is it a work colleague or family friend?

I'm quite passive aggressive in situations like this. If you don't want to confront him outright maybe a conversation such as

"oh, guess what, I bumped into [insert person dh dosent know/old school friend] today, she's just left her husband, apparently he was having an affair and chatting women up all over Facebook and she found all the messages! How disgusting is that? What a bastard!"

Watch his reaction.

*I never post advice on relationships so feel free to completely ignore me

JoySchtick Thu 21-Mar-13 10:29:51

Feel fortified after a bath and a cup of tea. Just for the record I have NCed for this thread.

grin Sissy at three-way meet up idea. I'm not sure I have the icy nerve to pull that off. I found it very nerve-wracking going on his Facebook, although I think I did quite well at it. My grounding in the Nancy Drew books came in handy, but I was a very nervous Nancy.

I think all their contact is Facebook and possibly text. The conversation I saw included discussion of how to cover their tracks - him advising her how to do it. He is quite the gentleman. [ironic face]

They know each other from work, way back. I don't think they kept in touch but met again at a re-union a few weeks back.

She has DCs, mentioned in their chat, and I'm guessing she has a partner if she is being so careful about not getting caught out. Not sure where she lives but I think it is probably not too far from us.

I'm pretty certain that no affair was involved in the break up of DH's previous marriage. He did mention once that his ex-DW filed on grounds of unreasonable behaviour, presumably if adultery had been an option it would have been on that instead.

I like what you said to your OH Distrusting - Chat very welcome.

DH and I have only been married a couple of years. I moved out of my home and into his and the thought of having to disrupt my whole life again because of him really annoys me, so I don't know how serious I could be about leaving - for the moment anyway.

The thing that I fear is that I will bring up the matter - either directly or indirectly - and he will then lie to me and carry on lying to me by continuing things with her. I just cannot have that. My family lied to me about one big massive thing - I mean my DM and DF - and the dust has only just settled on that after the secret came out.

Being played for a fool is just something I simply cannot tolerate.

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Thu 21-Mar-13 10:36:29

So he is advising her how to cover her tracks?

So he's not inexperienced in this then?

May I ask what you're waiting for? What do you want? Do you want to stay with him? If you don't, then do you feel you need more of a reason to leave than him planning how to betray you? Because you don't.

If, otoh, you want to stay with him, you just don't want him to have sex with her and go into the affair he is trying to plan to have, then it's probably best to let him know now that you know.

It's always easy to tell someone else how to proceed and I am aware that it's not my life and that it is bloody easy to sit outside something and be all feisty and take no crap but not so easy when you're in the middle of it and it's your life and your emotions, and there's a hefty dose of 'do as I say not as I do' as well! but I really wish that you would just say I know, and screw you, I'm worth more than this. Fuck off to her if she's who you want.

MadAboutHotChoc Thu 21-Mar-13 10:55:28

You need to confront him. If he lies, then you ask him to leave. Without trust and honesty there is no relationship.

You do not have to stay with a liar and cheat.

He has form for this I would think given that he has advised OW on covering her tracks and I would get tested for STIs.

BTW just because his ex divorced him on grounds of unreasonable behaviour, it doesn't mean he didn't have an affair. Many solicitors advise not to go for adultery as grounds unless you have 100% proof.

JoySchtick Thu 21-Mar-13 11:13:42

I may very well be wrong about him having form on this - but it is my feeling that he has not made a habit of being unfaithful. As for advising her on covering tracks I saw that he had done an online search on this messages / privacy etc. That was before I found the messages, and one of the reasons I went looking for them.

It doesn't actually matter that much to me whether he has done this kind of thing before or not. I may never know. The point is he's doing it now, behind my back, and that's what counts.

Hecsy I'm glad you said that planning how to betray me is enough. I'm not sure whether I do want to leave him or if I want to try to sort things out, but it's good to have someone else confirm that this is just wrong.

That's just it MadAboutHC, without trust and honesty there is no relationship. Without honesty all you are doing is relating to the shadow puppet which they let you see, not the real person. It is a waste of time and I will not have my time wasted in that way.

I guess I do want to continue our relationship, but my big fear is that he will carry on going behind my back in some way.

Ideally I'd like to give him a massive, massive shock so that he is in no doubt how seriously I take this.

It's his house, so would it be wrong to ask him to go and stay somewhere else for a few days while I consider what to do?

How can you give him a massive shock regards to how seriously you are taking it? You are not taking it seriously! You are merely annoyed!

Your husband is embarking on a romance with a woman who is married and has children. And you just think it is an inconvenience and wont put up with any lying? shock
He is advising her on how to cover her tracks so they wont be discovered? He is clearly planning this deceit for the long term.

You dont know that adultery was not a reason for his previous marriage breakdown, you just know his ex cited unreasonably behaviour. Infidelity is pretty unreasonable, and she might have done it to ensure he did not contest it, and because she wanted it over and done with quickly.

How well do you actually know him?

Distrustinggirlnow Thu 21-Mar-13 12:08:27

There is nothing wrong in you wanting to continue your relationship with him. However, for things to move forward there have to be some changes.

You have to tell him you know. Then, depending on what he says, ask him what he wants. If he says you then he must tell the ow that you know. He must tell the ow that there will be no more contact. He must delete all messages, (make sure u have screen shots) and he must have total transparency with his phone, emails etc.

When he speaks to her the phone has to be on speaker so u can hear every word.

He then has to answer your questions honestly, time after time after time..... And at the same time check back into u and your relationship.

But if he's flippant, or gets angry with you or blames you in any way then my advice would be to tell him to fuck off. Because u deserve better than what u have at present. We all do thanks

oscarwilde Thu 21-Mar-13 12:19:00

I know someone in your position exactly. She confronted her husband, messaged the most recent OW (he's been flirting with tons of women)telling her to do one, and confirming that no actual sex had take place and they have been to relationship counselling as she is desperate to make their relationship work and partially blamed herself for being a cow around the time that it started.
I couldn't do it. Her H travels extensively for work and I would spend my entire time wondering what he was up to. Yes he is very contrite now and their counselling has improved their relationship [he's still a financially controlling git in my view] but a few years from now when she is home with small DC's, has given up her job and security then in my view she will spend her time while he is away stressing about it. Not worth it imo.

Madlizzy Thu 21-Mar-13 12:54:09

My husband did this, it didn't come to fruition and we're still very much together. He's just had to put up with me checking on him a LOT over the years.

JoySchtick Thu 21-Mar-13 14:42:31

Some food for thought in all your posts.

I need to confront him, there's no doubt about that. I need to get prepared in my mind as to how I will do it and what I will say. I'm terrified of doing it. I'm fairly sure that I will cry and find it hard to get the words out.

I feel sick now and have hardly been able to eat except for chocolate.

I want to figure out what I am going to say and have some options for responses depending on what he says. That will help me find the courage to do it.

Distrust do you mean that I should tell him I know and then if he is honest and contrite ask him what there and then what he wants and then immediately make him do the phone call to OW?

Oscar and Lizzie the trust thing is a huge concern. I don't want to spend the rest of my life worrying and I don't want to keep checking up on him. I understand that it is necessary and Lizzie I'm really glad it has worked out ok for you. But if a man doesn't know from his own morals and values that it is destructive to have flirty secrets then I'm not sure I can or want to have a relationship with him. So there is now a big question mark hanging over DH as far as I am concerned. I imagine you had to find an answer to that question mark in your own case, Lizzie. Did it happen straightaway or did you need to mull it over?

JoySchtick Thu 21-Mar-13 14:43:43

Sorry Lizzy misspelt you.

MadAboutHotChoc Thu 21-Mar-13 14:50:01

But if a man doesn't know from his own morals and values that it is destructive to have flirty secrets then I'm not sure I can or want to have a relationship with him.

I totally agree.

He needs to look at his boundaries, flaws and values to address why he chose to behave in this way. Until he does this, the risk of cheating again is high.

AgathaF Thu 21-Mar-13 18:33:46

I don't think you should make him call the OW. I think he should want to do that, and do it, because he has had a massive wake up call and realises how awful he has been. Everything that he does to try to make things right should, I think, come from him.

Xales Thu 21-Mar-13 19:01:18

What is the point in making him call the OW? He can lie, act innocent and contrite, call/text her as soon as your back is turned and cover his tracks better from now on.

Your H has got to the stage of arranging meet ups. He has gone beyond just conversation.

Intention is as good as the deed to me. He had/has every intention on cheating on you given the chance.

Why waste your time giving him that chance?

I hope you work it out.

Cabrinha Thu 21-Mar-13 20:00:54

Honestly? I'd walk away.
A bit of flirting - but going on into sex fantasies?

If you had had an amazing relationship previously, I might say counselling. But you said up thread you think he'd be controlling about this and deny it or BLAME YOU!!

Fuck that. If you expect that kind of reaction, what's he like now.

I had similar but different, am now married to the guy and whilst I'd never regret our child, should have walked. Should have valued myself more. It WRECKED our relationship. It's still there, in my head, years later. We will divorce one day. We're only not divorced now because I'm going through the "I don't want to split up my child's family and home" angst.

Seriously - is this really acceptable?

Boosterseat Thu 21-Mar-13 20:15:31

Agreeing with xales here, the intention is there so in his mind he's already DTD.

Facebook really can be the pits, but its done you a favour and shown his true colours and callous intentions.

Don't make him call the OW - as others have said if he is truly remorseful he should be taking all the action to correct his behaviour, you have done nothing wrong.

Please don't spend your life snooping and looking over your shoulder it's not worth the pain, as others have said the niggling feeling never seems to go away and you will find yourself hoping to catch him out so you can make a clean break mentally.

If you don't feel like you can compose yourself when confronting him could you write a letter? You could hand it to him, pop out for a walk to clear your head then see what type of man you return to?

Ahhhcrap Thu 21-Mar-13 20:20:04

Does it matter if he lies or you don't have proof! (Although you do) you've already seen what he's up to.

Does it matter how you handle it? Frankly I think you just let him have it! If you cry, so what! It's for him to fix this if you want him to..

His reaction will give you an idea of if you want to give him another chance.. As for him doing it again but being more careful - you'll never trust him fully again (I know) and this is the joys of staying with a liar.. Just because he hasn't slept with her yet doesn't mean he hasn't broken the bond or your trust and betrayed you

JoySchtick Thu 21-Mar-13 21:38:43

Right, well I've just confronted him and asked who is this Space Invader woman.
I didn't say how I knew or show him any evidence.

He denied it. Just denied it.

Then he started saying he was too tired for this kind of thing, that he'd been to the doctors again today because he is so stressed and ill the whole time, there was tutting and shaking of the head.

I didn't know what to say or do because I hadn't banked on him just denying it. So I said exactly that to him - "I don't know what to do now because I didn't think you would just lie to me"

He asked me what I was talking about, why I was asking him about her in particular and that I might as well be asking about anyone.

Then he started complaining about our marriage. He said that there wasn't anything dodgy going from his side but that we don't have a shared life etc,

Now he's gone out in the car.

I am shaking, trembling as if I was somewhere that is minus 30 degrees.

Xales Thu 21-Mar-13 21:44:54

Sorry he hasn't shown any hint of remorse sad

He has instantly turned this on you and that your marriage is bad. That would be something to do with him spending his quality time on another woman I would guess hmm

He will be busy contacting her going deny deny deny and deleting all evidence.

He may leave the innocuous just friendly communications to prove that it is innocent and you are 'mad'.

When he comes back to show his evidence and to accuse you of being paranoid. Don't confront him with your evidence or argue. Stay silent. Leave him to fill in the gaps. It is funny how unnerving that can be and what it can reveal.

LondonNinja Thu 21-Mar-13 21:50:45

Oh bloody hell, OP. Horrible situation...

He's probably going to go out and have a think about how to play it - after all he's clueless as to how much you know. Don't be surprised if he tries to get you to show your hand, when it should be him bloody well explaining!

I have a feeling he will come back and minimise the whole thing, start blaming you, drag the 'state' of your marriage into it and add a good sprinkling of 'you have no idea how stressed and unhappy I am' crap to deflect his behaviour. There's a slim chance he will come clean, but I'd be surprised, tbh.

Have you got someone in RL you can call on now?

Plumsofgold Thu 21-Mar-13 21:53:29

I would go on to his FB, do a bit of snooping and find her poor husband and send him the screenshots.

something2say Thu 21-Mar-13 21:56:10

Hello op. another stranger holding your hand.

Why don't you show him the emails and then see what he says? And anything about how the marriage issues caused it, you could ask why he didn't tackle that head on instead of starting something behind your back.

Hugs x

JoySchtick Thu 21-Mar-13 21:59:42

He is back, with cat food. He was only gone very briefly so maybe a quick text to OW. Or maybe he had already put his affairs in order ref. deleting messages etc.

He is staying downstairs. I am upstairs.

I will not say anything else to him. I have a feeling he is not going to say much else to me.

Perhaps he is hoping to brazen it out, mixed perhaps with making out I am mad and deluded. I happen to know that I am not.

Xales Thu 21-Mar-13 22:03:08

Did you need cat food?

Xales Thu 21-Mar-13 22:04:33

oops hit post there.

Seems a strange thing to go out and get at such a moment hmm

JoySchtick Thu 21-Mar-13 22:05:49

Yes, we needed cat food and it somehow slipped my mind today to buy any.

Gave the cats tuna instead. It's an ill wind etc etc.

From my last post to now he has treated me to an extended version of previous 'issues' in our marriage.

paintyourbox Thu 21-Mar-13 22:09:02

Perhaps you should tell him that the real issue in your marriage is that he is a fucking liar and then present him with the screenshots.

What an arse. You deserve way, way better.

I know you say you don't suspect he has had affairs before bit something must have prompted you to look at his Facebook?

paintyourbox Thu 21-Mar-13 22:09:39

BUT not bit...

JoySchtick Thu 21-Mar-13 22:09:46

At the end of the rant he went into the next room moaned and groaned a bit, then asked if I wanted a cup of tea.

Also he asked me how I thought he felt when he accidentally opened an Amazon parcel for me and found Lundy Bancroft, 'Should I Stay or Should I Go?'

Xales Thu 21-Mar-13 22:10:26

Don't lower yourself to an exchange about your marriage. You really do know the truth.

You also now know he thinks you are as thick as poo.

I wonder if he wanted you to find out. Seems strange that he would tell her how to erase her history and leave himself wide open to discovery.

JoySchtick Thu 21-Mar-13 22:12:28

Ok, he came back again and told me with some passion that he would never be able to have an affair as he was brought up Catholic. Other men might but he wouldn't.

He seems to be getting quite worked up

I am not saying anything if at all possible.

LondonNinja Thu 21-Mar-13 22:12:48

Ask him how he thought you'd feel when you happened upon his texts to that other woman and that you'll now be consulting the book, thanks but that there doesn't seem to be much reason to stay as he is such a bloody liar

ChateauCollapso Thu 21-Mar-13 22:14:16

He's clearly guilty and wants time to think up some lies. Hope you'll be OK. xx

LondonNinja Thu 21-Mar-13 22:14:39

Actually, staying quiet is brilliant, as Xales said. He's taking the rope, reeling it out...

He's protesting too much, isn't he?

I'm sorry this is happening. How bloody awful.

JoySchtick Thu 21-Mar-13 22:17:28

Your messages and his self-righeousness are making me smirk.

I am not going to show him the messages I copied yet. I want to keep my powder dry. Don't know what for really, just feel the confrontation is quite enough for today.

Buying the cat food and offering tea, he's showing me what a good bloke he is, isn't he.

Xales Thu 21-Mar-13 22:20:25

He has been to the Dr, he is tired and stressed but he still heroically struggled out for cat food and is making you tea. Not only is he showing you what a good bloke he is, he is showing you what an evil woman you are as he has done this while in such a bad state 'for you'.

A decent none blaming conversation about your marriage would have been better.

Xales Thu 21-Mar-13 22:22:21

Plus it is hard to stay angry at someone even if they deserve it if they are being nice and making you tea.

Distrustinggirlnow Thu 21-Mar-13 22:23:20

Re amazon parcel comment...
I hope you replied with, how the fuck do you think I felt when I opened your FB messages and found your sexual messages to XX.

He thinks he can deflect you. He thinks that if he tuts a bit and does the, how can you think that of me, routine, you will doubt yourself feel sorry for him and carry on.

He will lie. It's awful to say but he will. IME the only time he will come clean is when you show him what you know. Be prepared for him to the minimise it all. It meant nothing, I've been helping her through a rough time, we only met once, I didn't shag her blah, blah blah.

Have a wine

EverybodysSootyEyed Thu 21-Mar-13 22:23:48

he wouldn't have an affair because he's catholic? didn't you say he is divorced? Or does he only stick to some bits of Catholicism?

I would leave him to stew as he is probably really confused about what you know and is trying to get something out of you as a guide!

LondonNinja Thu 21-Mar-13 22:25:17

Let him sweat, I say. If you've had enough confrontation, that's good enough. I think he'll work himself into a frenzy of protesting too much or will do the wholly original dinner, chocolates and flowers farce thing tomorrow if you haven't clouted him with the book and laptop before then

Distrustinggirlnow Thu 21-Mar-13 22:26:04

Oh and you're spot on to keep quiet.

Ask him if being catholic also prevents him from having an inappropriate friendship.....

whateverhernameis Thu 21-Mar-13 22:31:55

I am so sorry that he is lying to you. Not a shred of remorse there, or guilt, just trying to turn it all back on you. This is what they do... Read the Mid Life Crisis script on here. It has sadly been needed by quite a few posters in the past week sad

and regarding the first wife.....I filed for divorce for Unreasonable Behaviour after my XH walked out suddenly and I later discovered facebook flirty chats, 100 texts a day and emails, all behind my back. No actual proof of adultery, so it had to be UB....

You know what your H is doing, you know that he has lied to you. My XH did the same when I confronted him.

aftereight Thu 21-Mar-13 22:34:18

I hate to say this, but I found similar messages to you, with arrangements to 'finally' meet. I was relieved that I confronted before anything physical happened. Except that after confronting him I found out that it already had.
I hope this isn't the case for you, but please be prepared for unexpected revelations.

JoySchtick Thu 21-Mar-13 22:35:32

Xales it is a bit strange that I found out even though he was advising OW on hiding the evidence. He underestimated me.

He put password protection on the computer sometime last year - it was when we got a new computer and we all, including DCs, got our own log ins.

DH is admin on the computer and he set the password on my account, so he can see my stuff if he should want to and I can't see his. When I asked if I could set my own password, because if he can have privacy then so can I, he said no. So that was a bit hmm.

I only wanted privacy so I could try out some creative writing type stuff and not feel inhibited.

A combination of him being sort of, hmm...distant, detached...can't put my finger on it, and all the passwords just made me wonder a bit.

Just around the time he met the OW again after years and years (I think) he left something lying around, a notebook and it had a word in it which just made my brain go ..click, click, click - that's the password. And it was.

When I looked at the browsing history I saw loads of records of looking at this woman's photos and maybe a couple of messages. So hmm again.

Then last night I wondered if it was his FB password too. And it was. And then I saw it, drunken messages streaming in live from both of them. I only caught a glimpse of what they were saying but it didn't look good. I checked and copied today - but not all the messages and now he has a new password.

LondonNinja Thu 21-Mar-13 22:38:00

So, he won't let you have a password, but he had one and has now changed the one he had?!

YellowTulips Thu 21-Mar-13 22:41:19

I would simply tell him what you have found and ask "is there any reason why I should consider staying in this relationship with you - because I sure as hell can't think of one".

Then sit back feign complete disinterest/apathy and see what he says.

He is having his ego stroked. Don't join in. Show indifference. See what he says and watch his true colours show.

Xales Thu 21-Mar-13 22:42:15

He can have passwords but you can't! WTAF! That is just wrong. Sorry sad

From what you have said I wouldn't put it past him to be monitoring what you do on the pc. Controls are good for kids, not for other adults.

Changed password is bad. He has realised where you have got information just not how much and so is not sure how to minimise.

I don't know how you can move on from this. He is busy covering up rather than fessing up.

It will become too little too late if he does bother.

LondonNinja Thu 21-Mar-13 22:43:07

Thank goodness you have copies, Joy. He doesn't need to know (at any point) that you didn't have time to get the whole lot...

He must be shitting himself. Wanker.

JoySchtick Thu 21-Mar-13 22:44:51

Thank you everyone.

It's a big help just to be on here chatting away. It makes me feel less lonely. Just typing that word 'lonely' gave me a lump in my throat.

Thank you for the wine Distrusting but I will stick to fruit tea as I want to stay as calm as possible and say as little as possible. Some people have said that wine makes me talk rubbish, but I find that hard to believe.

LondonNinja Thu 21-Mar-13 22:48:02

How ever much wine you had, you'd not talk as much crap as he's spouting!

Really hope you are OK. This must be a dreadful shock. Do you have someone in RL to talk to about all this? Us lot will be here, of course smile

Tortington Thu 21-Mar-13 22:49:34

"When I asked if I could set my own password, because if he can have privacy then so can I, he said no."

why did you ask? I would have stated. You are not a child.

anyway, whats done is done. I think keeping your powder dry is a good thing.

do you own a house, anything of value, do you share debt?

HmmmWhatAMess Thu 21-Mar-13 22:52:07

Hi Joy. I have recently been through something similar, I'm so sorry I'm not the only one.

My advice to you would be consider your every move - whatever it may be. When I kept finding more I confronted him almost immediately and I wish I didn't. I put all of my cards on the table and it just enabled him to deceive me in other ways.

JoySchtick Thu 21-Mar-13 22:53:25

LondonNinja yes, he had a secret password and I had a password which he knew. Knows in fact.

When I asked for my own password I ended up apologising for being unreasonable about it. Not sure how he got me to see it that way. Ho-hum.

He has changed his FB password and may have changed the computer one, I'm not going to check because I've seen enough. It's the dishonesty that matters to me and not what they have or have not done physically.

Ref. the first marriage and divorce; he always spoke very reasonably of it all before we were married and then afterwards it became all her fault. hmm

You see again there is a lack of respect for the truth which just doesn't work for me at all.

Snazzynewyear Thu 21-Mar-13 23:02:02

Yes, what are your shared assets? Would there be much of a problem in separating your finances?

If you aren't sure how to play it yet, then keep quiet. It seems to be at least partly effective. I think you have your answer though in that he seems to be thinking that denying and blaming for long enough will wear you down and you will tacitly agree to forget it. But this is no way to live. The password issue itself shows that he has always been set on being able to do things without you knowing, while not affording you the same 'privilege'. I would start quietly sorting your stuff out while he is stonewalling like this.

Snazzynewyear Thu 21-Mar-13 23:03:33

So he still knows your password to the computer and presumably only he can change it? Just think about anything else of yours he has access to and change any other passwords if you can.

JoySchtick Thu 21-Mar-13 23:04:14

grin Ninja

With regards to property and debt we each have our own. My property is let out though so I will not have access for ages.

He has just given me two very expensive pens which he said he bought as a present for me for our recent wedding anniversary. He said that he didn't get round to giving them to me as I didn't give him a card until the evening and so then he just gave me a card too and not a present. Now he feels he was childish for doing that.

These pens are a very generous gift and from what I gather there is a tradition of giving them to his DCs when they reach voting age. The youngest turns 18 very soon.

I'm not ungrateful but they are not my kind of thing at all,maybe I will offer to give them back at some point.

LondonNinja Thu 21-Mar-13 23:06:57

Sell them on ebay, Joy. Seriously.

Wait - has he literally just given you the pens?!?!?! Dear God. He'll be in with a bouquet of flowers next.

JoySchtick Thu 21-Mar-13 23:08:08

Good idea. I will password protect what I can. Don't know how to do it for my laptop though. Will read manual.

ProphetOfDoom Thu 21-Mar-13 23:11:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Xales Thu 21-Mar-13 23:12:22

He just have them to you right now? Why?

I think he is lying to make you feel bad again.

They are what he planned to give to his child as the tradition.

They are too make you feel guilty that you doubted him because he brought you such a fine present.

If he did buy them for you what sort of tit for tat hit was he to hold onto them? Apart from punishing you.

Also a similar present to what he would buy his 18 yeast old child shows that he considers you at their level compared to him. Same as with the password actually. You are not his equal.

What is the age gap between you?

JoySchtick Thu 21-Mar-13 23:13:49

Yes, he has literally just given me the pens. He must have felt that tea and cat food were not cutting the mustard.

I don't even eat cat food

Snazzynewyear Thu 21-Mar-13 23:14:12

It's not that generous a gift if they're not your thing at all. That just sounds as if he has looked around desperately for something to mollify you with and has decided that the pens (destined for the children) will do. Ninja is right, it will be underwear, flowers or Milk Tray in a minute...

Is there anyone you could go and stay with for a while or get a short term let? I really would start to think about these options. And I would think about what is in the house that you contributed to, even if the house itself is his. He is clearly still pursuing a policy of hoping he can get you to overlook the whole thing.

Madlizzy Thu 21-Mar-13 23:14:33

My dh splurged everything as soon as he saw the look on my face that said I'd sussed him. He couldn't believe how much of a dick he'd been, and we actually started talking more than we'd done for a long while. It took time but I do now trust him. Your h is a different kettle of fish, methinks.

Bluelightsandsirens Thu 21-Mar-13 23:17:59

I wish you luck and I think he is trying his luck from the bottom of his pit.

Angelico Thu 21-Mar-13 23:18:25

He knows he's in the wrong and he's bricking it. Instead of being an actual man and admitting what he's done he is trying to blag it. This only makes him a turd, not the devilishly cunning wheeler dealer he seems to think he is.

I'm sorry you're going through this OP sad Wiser people will advise you on the practicalities but his attitude really makes me think your marriage is doomed unless he can grow a pair and accept some kind of responsibility.

whethergirl Thu 21-Mar-13 23:19:56

You could ask him to get you a bit of paper so you can test your new fancy pens. Then, while he is looking, write "I KNOW" and then act all innocent, "oh look dh, it really comes up lovely doesn't it, so smooth to write with"

Oh my goodness, the pens! Belated anniversary gift my arse.

Sorry you're having to go through this, and he's being such a monumental twat about it. He is as guilty as the day is long.

Xales Thu 21-Mar-13 23:21:07

He is IMO digging that pit deeper.

whethergirl Thu 21-Mar-13 23:23:32

When this does come out, btw, he will tell you that it was all a bit of a laugh and the would NEVER consider actually doing anything.

Been there, done the T-shirt. I'm afraid he's just ruined your relationship, not only by virtually cheating but by looking you straight in the eye and lying to you. I chose to stay with my ex and fight for our relationship as I'd just had a baby. Guess what he done it again. If you can do it once, you can do it again. And probably will. So sorry JoySchtick, but at least you found out.

Bessie123 Thu 21-Mar-13 23:28:20

OP you are very clearly so much brighter than your dh, I can't believe he thinks he can fool you. I hope you get through this and end up with an outcome you are ok with - what a horrible thing to find out.

JoySchtick Thu 21-Mar-13 23:34:53

Yep, he is digging deeper. Yep, he needs to find some courage and decency and take responsibility.

Xales interesting point about the pens and the children (who obviously are not actually little children but grown-up children) and him not seeing me as an equal.

It's so strange seeing him lying, knowing for sure he is lying, and yet almost wanting to believe him.

I'm glad you mentioned Milk Tray as it reminded me that I have some chocolate buttons in my desk. Password protect those, DH.

Conina Thu 21-Mar-13 23:37:26

i don't even eat catfood

grin

Joy, you're going to be fine. It's gonna be crap, but it will get better. I think you're doing fabulously. Really listen to what he's saying, and then look at what he was doing. They shouldn't have this sci fi gap.

One of my favourite MN relationship truisms is about how people shouldn't have to try to talk themselves out of where their actions put them (I wish I could find it again). He's doing a lot of chat here isn't he? Please don't doubt yourself.

But what a twunt. Flirting, lying, blaming you. He's going for a full house if common or garden twatery isn't he.

ImperialBlether Thu 21-Mar-13 23:40:44

I would have left him over the password, OP. How dare he say that he can have a private account and you can't?

If I saw messages like that, too, I'd go right off him. I don't think a relationship can survive that unless you really, really want him. Tbh, I don't believe you do want him.

Do you think the passion has gone from your relationship? You sound pissed off rather than incredibly hurt or furious.

JoySchtick Thu 21-Mar-13 23:45:56

I am hurt and upset that he would behave with so little respect towards me.

I'm not furious. I feel sorry for him in the sense that he's got loads going for him but he somehow doesn't know how to be a better person than this.

I still fancy him and he does me, I think. Although that is not all there is to passion.

I'm off to bed with my chocolate buttons.

LondonNinja Thu 21-Mar-13 23:50:23

I'm stunned at the pens. He's just come down to earth with a bump, hasn't he? I'm expecting he suggests a fantastic restaurant or holiday next (after the Milk Tray)...

Joy, you sound so calm, but I suspect you're just keeping a lid on it for now. He's dragged the carcass of normality back into the room - with the cat food - and is minimising to the hilt.

Are you going to be able to sleep tonight?

LondonNinja Thu 21-Mar-13 23:53:35

Cross post. Sleep well. Enjoy the chocolate buttons but reassess in the morning - don't let his minimising detract from what he has done. Remind yourself how you felt when he went out. There is a school of thought that says if you (he) don't (doesn't) make an issue of something, others will follow suit. Don't fall for it.

Madlizzy Thu 21-Mar-13 23:56:05

When he's asleep, put a few chocolate buttons in his arse crack and let him draw his own conclusions in the morning...wink

Snazzynewyear Fri 22-Mar-13 00:09:23

Yes, don't let him off the hook. If in any doubt say nothing to whatever he says/does.

DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved Fri 22-Mar-13 00:15:40

Poor you, so horrible to have that feeling of going into free fall with your relationship.

I would try the ultra calm and reasonable thing with him. Say you know there is something going on and the way he is lying and hitting out at you is unkind/ cruel, and you are not sure what he expects to achieve with it? and if he comes back with other nasty things, keep saying 'thats very hurtful, and im not sure what you want to achieve by this'.

and also if he goes off at a tangent (i.e. on the book opening, or other relationships troubles), say 'but we're not talking about that now, we're talking about you being unfaithful, please dont try and change the subject, i want to hear the truth'... and repeat ad nauseum. with silences after saying it.

cos what he really wants is for you to snap and get in an argument back and then twist it so he can claim the moral high ground, deflect away from his behaviour and blame you... and generally shuffle himself into a self righteous anger about it all where he excuses his own betrayal to himself.

If you can bear it, dont give him any extra fodder to do that to you.

ask him if he can sit down with you and have an honest and straight forwards conversation with you about it. with no shouting and blaming and ranting at you... becuase if he really is the person who you thought you had a relationship with, he should do that for you...

i'm sorry OP.

Snazzynewyear Fri 22-Mar-13 00:23:05

I would seriously look at going somewhere for a few days. Let him wonder where you have gone and what you are thinking, rather than this minimising and denial he's acting out for you. If you can go to a friend's for the weekend, or even just check into a hotel somewhere and do nothing but watch films etc, then do that. Tell him (or leave a note) saying you know he isn't being straight with you and you can't bear to be around him right now. Let him sweat on that.

AgathaF Fri 22-Mar-13 07:59:33

Joy re the password for your laptop. If you press control-alt-delete, does it give you the option to change password? Mine does, but not sure if that is universal, IYKWIM. I think he could then change it himself, as the administrator, but you would know if he'd done that when you couldn't log on to your laptop.

Hope you're ok this morning.

JoySchtick Fri 22-Mar-13 12:10:15

Thank you all for so many good comments.

'Live-blogging' DH's ridiculous blustering was a brilliant defence against getting drawn into a conversation on his terms. And not getting a response did just allow him more rope. Thank you, thank you.

Although I'd have much preferred it if he had taken responsibility for his actions.

Thanks Agatha, I tried ctrl+alt+del as you suggestd but it doesn't work for me. Back to the manual it is.

Just for clarity - the main desktop computer is the one with the passwords and which DH controls. My laptop is fully in my control, but I would like to put a password on it so it is my private space.

I've decided to go to an hotel for the night. I'd like some time on my own if nothing else.

I like snazzy's thought of explaining that I know he is lying and can't stand to be around him. I was also thinking of leaving a copy of 'The Script' for him. There are a couple of good versions on the boards here. I want to underscore that I know he is lying and I really can't be doing with his BS.

Would that be a stupidly provocative thing to do? Thoughts on that?

I want to behave with dignity, not rile him.

LondonNinja Fri 22-Mar-13 12:18:54

I think you need to do whatever you want to do. He should be the one scared of riling you, TBH!

A night away is a good idea, though. It'll give you the headspace you need. And if he asks why you're away, maybe just say it's because you need some time alone for your own reasons and that he should maybe have a long, hard think about what those reasons are (and to not treat you as though you are thick!). I don't see why you have to justify yourself to him or leave hints, really.

Book somewhere nice, with a spa. Sell the bloody pens to fund it!

Ahhhcrap Fri 22-Mar-13 15:15:42

Just caught up with this thread, so sorry this is happening to you OP

It's almost a carbon copy of what happened to me. I knew something wasn't right with my DH but couldn't put my finger on it, by some freak accident I saw a text message from a woman to him. Once I started to dig I saw all manner of conversations between the two of them. At that point I thought it was none physical. But what really got me, was when I asked him who 'Laura' was (name changed for MN), he looked me dead in the eye and asked me what I was on about, he didn't know anyone by that name. I then slowly started mentioning things that I knew, but very subtely. You could almost see the panic start to rise over a period of time. He then started to be over nice to me. I also noticed ALL his passwords changed.

I eventually put him out of his misery and showed him the screen shots and copies I'd taken and his face was a picture.

I often think that we could have gotten over it if he'd simply admitted to it, but his ability for lies and deceipt was epic and I found I couldn't live with the fact he could look me dead centre in the eyes and tell me he was out with his mates when I had concrete proof he'd been seeing her. Also that he hadn't sent any messages when I had, literally, hundreds of them between the two of them.

The more you hold out, the more he'll dig himself a hole. Once he knows you know, he'll try to worm his way out of it.

DrHolmes Fri 22-Mar-13 15:30:56

So basically, he has clicked how you know as that is why he has changed his FB password.

Re pass word for your own laptop. From "Start" go to "control panel" "user accounts" and either it will give you the option there to create a password or there will be more to click on maybe "add or remove user account" then click on the actual account which will be either your name if he made it that or just "admisitrator" click on that then "change" and there should be a link to click say add a password or something!

JoySchtick Fri 22-Mar-13 19:29:43

I've come to the coast to get some space and to figure out what to do next.

It seems to be working because almost as soon as I got here, and after reading some of your posts, I decided that I need to show him the hard evidence.

Someone made the very good point upthread that he doesn't need to know that I didn't manage to copy everything What I have is enough.

This all comes down to him taking responsibility and I suspect he will only consider doing that when he is cornered.......That's not great is it?

MadLizzy felt sad reading how differently your DH behaved in a similar situation.

DrHolmes that worked for my laptop, thank you. I also changed my password on the shared computer.

Feel tired now after feeling quite wired and hectic all day. Think I will have a little nap.

JoySchtick Fri 22-Mar-13 21:04:56

sigh DH just texted saying he needed to know where his car was as he was about to report it to the police as stolen.

Then he called and left a voicemail which said the car was gone and he needed to know where it was or he would have to call the police.

I used the car to get to the coast, it is his car but I drive it too. He has another car if he needs to go anywhere tonight. I also left a note saying that I knew all and was going away for the night.

So I'm thinking he must have known the car hadn't been stolen.

Doesn't he realise how pathetic he is being?

I texted back saying 'don't worry, the car's with me' in a lighthearted way.

By the way, on the new iPhones can you tell when a voicemail that you left for someone has been listened to?

He called again as soon as I listened to his voicemail. I didn't listen to it straightaway because I was, er, in the bath or something, probably.

He is making a point that it is HIS car you are driving and that he CAN report it stolen.

That would be a rather pathetic waste of police time.

<eyeroll>

Are you working and fully able to support yourself in case you decide that you wont put up with his behaviour?

something2say Fri 22-Mar-13 21:10:30

I think he wants to control you into admitting where you are. Well done for saying the car is with you but not saying where you are. How are you apart from that?

Bessie123 Fri 22-Mar-13 21:15:27

He is an immature, narcissistic,controlling wanker. Ignore him if he does this again, I bet he won't call the police.

Snazzynewyear Fri 22-Mar-13 21:33:36

Definitely don't tell him where you are and don't reply. I would bet he will not call the police but even if he did, you would only need to tell them what the situation is and they would immediately see he had set out to waste their time and deliberately cause trouble. But as I said, he won't do this as he thinks his threat will work. Call his bluff.

LondonNinja Fri 22-Mar-13 21:36:01

He's desperate. If he calls the police, they'll give him a rocket up his arse for wasting time.

Didn't he have anything to say about the fact you know?! Staggering...

JoySchtick Fri 22-Mar-13 21:37:58

I agree, he wouldn't have called the police. It would have been ridiculous and even he must realise that.

I've turned my phone off now.

I don't feel too bad considering. My heart is racing a bit and I feel vaguely sick. When he called it got a lot worse, my heart was absolutely pounding.

I work but my income is a bit precarious as I am a freelancer. I could work all that out though somehow, if necessary.

JoySchtick Fri 22-Mar-13 21:45:27

No, he didn't make any reference to my note.

To me it seems like almost the same mindset of doing things below the radio so that nothing can be firmly pinned on him.

I can't prove that he didn't genuinely fear the car had been stolen.

As far as he's concerned I can't prove that he's done anything wrong with XX.

something2say Fri 22-Mar-13 21:50:07

Trying to escape what one has genuinely done........low life behaviour. I think that's the saddest bit isn't it, the not owning what one does.

DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved Fri 22-Mar-13 22:06:55

Hope the coast is doing you good. Well done for being such a strong woman and taking care of yourself

LondonNinja Fri 22-Mar-13 22:13:42

Wow, he's a real case, isn't he? Keep the phone turned off and use this weekend to sort your head out a bit.

As far as he's concerned you can't prove anything? Well, that's OK then... confused Hmm.

He's in denial.

JoySchtick Fri 22-Mar-13 22:13:59

Below the radio??? That would be below the radar.

LondonNinja Fri 22-Mar-13 22:15:06

smile I did wonder about the radio...

Hope the sea air is doing you good, Joy

Hissy Fri 22-Mar-13 22:35:47

Good for you Joy, you are so strong and inspiring.

i am so sorry that you are going through this. Stay away to get space as long as you feel you need to.

Let the bugger sweat. Seriously.

Don't call him, don't take his calls. He knows you are OK and he has not got a right to any more information than that.

let him see that there will be consequences to his actions.

Ahhhcrap Sun 24-Mar-13 12:39:36

Sounds like he's panicking and because he doesn't know exactly what you're aware of he's testing the water.

Hope you're ok OP

JoySchtick Sun 24-Mar-13 12:59:31

Good afternoon.

The coast was a good idea and I'm really glad to have had some time alone.

Being away was a big help as it made me feel calmer and less stressed and then I was able to eat some proper food, cry, rest and think.

I've been thinking a lot about what Xales said upthread that it was almost as if DH wanted me to find out, considering that he was advising OW on how to cover her tracks but then got caught out himself after he carelessly left a clue to his password lying around.

I think he was shocked and upset when he found my copy of 'Should I Stay Or Should I Go'.

Now that I've found out about his sexually explicit messages I am the one feeling shocked and upset. It's tit-for-tat.

I don't think he planned it that way, just that he unconsciously found a way to express what he wanted me to know but couldn't bring himself to share with me honestly.

I returned the beloved car safely to its worried owner yesterday and I am now staying with a friend for a couple of nights.

When I get back home I am going to confront DH with part of the hard evidence that I have - ie screenshots of some of their messages.

I will tell DH that if he wants to continue our relationship then he must take responsibility for what he has done. It's his mess, he can sort it out.

I'm going to continue putting my affairs in order to leave if I need to.

I've been thinking a lot about whether to give the information I have to the OW's DH. My idea is that I would give her notice of my plan first so that she has the opportunity to come clean to him herself if she wants to.

My reason for doing this is partly to send the message 'get orf my land' and to nip their burgeoning relationship in the bud. I feel like nipping DH somewhere else too.

I also want to make clear to DH the full consequences of what he has done by spreading lies in two marriages. And next time he will presumably find someone who is single.

I've seen her photos on Facebook, her with her DCs, and it looks like she has a lovely family. There are lots of sweet messages on her wall (or whatever it's called) from her DH.

I really wish them all well, yes even her, and with all my heart I hope that they will keep their family together.

But I want to make it clear where the boundaries are, point out to my DH that he has crossed the line and let him know that if we are to stay together he will need to learn for himself how to observe the boundaries from now on.

Is it a terrible idea to tell the OW she needs to tell her DH? Is it a terrible idea to tell the OW's DH anything at all?

So tempting! I would be so tempted to tell her DH not her, but then really, do you want to become embroiled in their relationship problems? Probably not.

Love the way he is more concerned about his car than he is about you, that's just bloody marvellous isn't it?

LondonNinja Sun 24-Mar-13 15:04:37

Would you trust him, though? Even if he says he's going to stop crossing the line?

I'm not sure about telling the OW's DH. Even though he deserves to know, it may destroy their family. I think that that has to be her call, tbh.

Ahhhcrap Sun 24-Mar-13 16:10:05

People will tell you all sorts with regards to the OW. I took the high ground and decided she was nothing to do with me and it was my DH I was concerned with so I did nothing. I've never spoken to her..

Unfortunately that's one bit I've never been able to put to bed with regards to my DHs affair. I feel she got off Scott free and her life was none the worse as her DH and family never found out.. I doubt it would have made things better if I'd have told him or confronted her - but it might have made me feel slightly better rather than second best to her hmm

ProphetOfDoom Sun 24-Mar-13 17:22:57

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Doha Sun 24-Mar-13 17:28:48

If l was the OW's other half l would want to know. However l think you should give her the chance to come clean and give her a week before you contact her DH.
You will not have caused the trouble in her marriage she managed to do that with the help of your DH.

I am not sure why you would collude with the three of them on keeping her husband in the dark. It is only fair that he gets to know what sort of woman he is married to, it will be up to them if they split up, that is nothing to do with you. Let the poor man know what his wife has been up to so he can make a conscious choice whether she is worth staying married to! For all you know, your dh could be one of many.

How did he meet her?

JoySchtick Sun 24-Mar-13 18:39:34

Those responses have really helped me clarify my thinking on telling Mr OW.

I think it is an ace I am happy to keep up my sleeve for now. I agree it is best coming straight from her to her husband.

No one can know what the outcome would be for their relationship, it could be the making of their marriage or it destroy it. Only they are in charge of that.

I’m realising how completely my future depends on DH taking responsibility. I can tell him that’s what needs to happen but I can’t make him do it. I’m not optimistic that he is even going to know WTF I am talking about. sad

DH texted me this morning but I only spotted it later on.

His first text asked if I was away for the w/end. His second said: could you pay me the small courtesy of confirming where you are so I don’t have to worry. I replied that I was safe.

Now he’s just this minute texted asking if I will be back home tonight. He has not once asked if I am ok.

Ahhhcrap Sun 24-Mar-13 18:56:41

Is it unusual for you to go away on your own for the weekend? I think him not going spare, asking what's wrong and not freaking out is telling on its own. If ge was innocent and i went off for the weekend without much of a reason, he'd be going spare!

Regardless of how he sugar costs it or wriggles you know and saw what was said. You don't need proof!

His reaction once it's all out will tell you what you need to know. If he's remorseful and gives you everything you need in regards to space and honesty then maybe there is a chance. If he blames you or lied further you know what he's made of.

Doha Sun 24-Mar-13 19:00:48

And just where was his small courtesy when he was texting OW?? I think his true colours are starting to show now.
Lets him stew.--or just re text - l am safe.

Bessie123 Sun 24-Mar-13 19:06:00

Patronising wanker

JoySchtick Sun 24-Mar-13 19:12:55

His reaction once it's all out will tell you what you need to know. This is why I am dreading seeing his reaction.

I so want to do everything right in order to make sure it all turns out the way I want it to and we are happy together. It's so horrible and frightening to have to accept that it is not down to me really.

I do sometimes go away at the w/end to stay with friends or family but it's in a much more routine way. I don't normally leave notes saying that I know all and he should tell the truth.

something2say Sun 24-Mar-13 19:15:34

To me, he sounds scared of what you may have discovered, angry and defensive (pay me the small courtesy etc) and also as tho he is waiting for you to come back and the shit to hit the fan xx

JoySchtick Sun 24-Mar-13 19:16:10

And I am quite shock that he is trying to somehow take the moral high ground by talking about 'small courtesies'.

What I really wanted to text back was: Could you please pay me the small courtesy of not swapping sexual fantasies with another woman.

"Could you please pay me the small courtesy of not swapping sexual fantasies with another woman."

That is exactly what you should do....

something2say Sun 24-Mar-13 19:18:59

When are you going to have it out with him?

JoySchtick Sun 24-Mar-13 19:22:27

Pure the only reason I didn't is that I want to see the whites of his eyes when he knows for sure that he has been cornered. I want to see his immediate reaction for myself.

something I think you are right, he does sound scared, angry and defensive. Quite why he feels angry I don't understand, unless it is anger to cover up fear.

JoySchtick Sun 24-Mar-13 19:23:54

Tomorrow night after work.

I'm dreading it.

TweedSlacks Sun 24-Mar-13 19:29:00

So he gives you 2 nice pens (mont blanc?) as a delayed anniversary gift , knowing its a family tradition to pass them on to his kids when they are 18 in a few months? So you are just looking after them for a few weeks hhhhhmmm.

He sets up all your passwords and he knows everyone elses , but no - one knows his hhhhmmmmm

He is more worried about a car than he is about you and the fact you felt you had to leave home .. hhhmmmmmm

If you feel strong enough to return you could try a simple " Whats her name?" question to everything he says. Eventually he will give up and admit something . Then you will most likely get 'but nothing actually happened'

If you feel you can accept this and move forward then you need to re build the trust , and have a sort out on things like passwords , locked mobiles etc

Best of luck , although he sounds like a tosser to me , sorry.

JoySchtick Sun 24-Mar-13 19:39:02

He is acting like a tosser, no two ways about it,

I don't think he is actually more worried about the car than about me.

I think he is way too scared to say, 'Aagh, I've f***ed up and I'm terrified. Please come back and let's make it right.' Whereas in fact that is about the only thing he can say that could help him.

I may be overly optimistic about how much he cares for me though.

Snazzynewyear Sun 24-Mar-13 19:57:23

'small courtesy of telling me where you are' = 'I am used to knowing everything you do while hiding stuff I do, so don't change that and shift the power balance between us'

Sailormercury Sun 24-Mar-13 20:53:23

He's angry because he's been rumbled. IMO when someone has done something shitty they often feel angry towards the injured party. He's looking for ways he can make it your fault even though he knows he is solely to blame IFYSWIM?

DorisIsWaiting Sun 24-Mar-13 21:04:38

It's seems like he's deflecting.

He's seen your message but doesn't know WHAT you know (this could be sadly the tip of an iceberg- sorry). He is not discussing it because he's not sure what he's supposed to be discussing. If he says anything it could further incriminate him with stuff you DIDN'T know iyswim.

Ahhhcrap Sun 24-Mar-13 22:51:01

He's doing the typical 'I won't admit to anything, until I know how much you know' routine.

I'll always remember the look on my dh's face when, after hours of talking, he finally realised I already knew everything!!! Priceless!!

onefewernow Sun 24-Mar-13 23:03:03

Snazzy! Brilliant- and so true.

OP I think it might be good to let him know you have evidence and want the whole story now, or he's out. Without saying what you know.

When my h was in this position I always fucked it up by telling him what small evidence I had and he always explained it away. And he got angry when I got too near the truth when I put a thread on mn and everyone assured me his computer technical explanation for what I was finding was utter bollocks, he was livid. I kept fining photos of women in "received files" and he even at that point created a false file which he named received files., in order to throw me off track.

He always managed to draw out of me what I had found, even when I was trying to avoid saying. If he is planning on lying, be prepared for hard work to get at the truth.

LondonNinja Mon 25-Mar-13 11:25:14

Just remember - it's not you who should be worrying yourself. Let him sweat, talk, speak, make excuses. You don't have to explain anything.

And, yes, he is a tosser.

JoySchtick Mon 25-Mar-13 12:59:32

DH texted me this morning and I told him I was at work and could he leave me alone as I was upset.
He texted back: You need to tell me why. Disappearing doesn’t help.
So patronising.

something2say Mon 25-Mar-13 13:10:29

OK it seems that your plan of going off and hoping that he will then realise that you know and admit to what he has done - may not be working.

It seems that he is not planning to admit it, he seems to want to know what you know. It seems that he is gagging to know how much you know and blaming you for disappearing, such that his angst is then prolongued.

What's your gut, Joy?

Are you still going home tonight to have it out?

ProphetOfDoom Mon 25-Mar-13 13:18:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NishiNoUsagi Mon 25-Mar-13 14:11:01

Oh Joyschtick he really is an utter knob isn't he sad

I would just subtly reply to his texts with some key phrases from the conversations you saw on his fb, and see if he gets the hint. Then I would throw him out on his arse, but that's easy for me to say when it's not my relationship, isn't it.

Hope you are ok, you sound like a lovely lady!

JoySchtick Mon 25-Mar-13 14:31:30

Maybe he's a visual & kinesthetic learner? If so, bin-bags containing his belongings and FB printouts taped to it, might do it.

grin Matilda That made me laugh.

My gut instinct is that I should email him this afternoon spelling out the situation:

*I know about his dodgy FB chat
*I know he is lying to me that there is nothing going on with XX
*He needs to be the one coming clean. He has the questions to answer, I won't be answering his questions.
*It is impossible to have a relationship worth pins with a liar. I won't do it.
*He needs to tell the truth. It is time to take responsibility for his actions.
*Stop trying to blame me.
*If he wants there to be any chance at all of continuing our relationship he needs to find a different response rather than straight denial.

Reading the words written down may at least give him a chance to take in what my position is and reflect on how to respond.

Then tonight I will show him some the screenshots.

I reckon he is still chatting to her on the damned 'Book of Being Two-Faced' as I can see from the chat list that he is checking the site frequently but has not posted anything publicly.

MadAboutHotChoc Mon 25-Mar-13 14:57:24

Don't email him. This will only give him time to come up with excuses and lies.

Talk to him face to face - but don't reveal how much you know. Just say you know he is cheating and that you deserve far more than a liar and a cheat.

Then let him talk - the less you say, the more likely he is to reveal stuff.

onefewernow Mon 25-Mar-13 15:01:03

I agree with Mad- much better face to face. Be clear that whatever he denies you have proof, then wait.

The hardest part will be not to fill in the silences and not let him lead you in his guessing game. I totally fucked that up, myself, and have wondered ever since whether I got the full story

ProphetOfDoom Mon 25-Mar-13 15:06:16

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ahhhcrap Mon 25-Mar-13 15:10:12

If you email him now he'll have a bunch of excuses lined up..

Just tell him you know about him and XXX then stay quiet, don't fill any silences and tell him you have proof (but don't tell him what it show him) that he's been having an affair and if he doesn't tell you everything or he lies then he's out the door.. If you don't do that he'll only admit to what you already know.. This happened to me and I thought, for 2 yrs he'd only had an EA, found out yrs later it was physical cause he only admitted to what I already knew

JoySchtick Mon 25-Mar-13 15:18:33

I won’t be saying anything new in the email. Just re-iterating that I know he has lied about his ‘friendship’ with XX.

I’ve already told him that I know he is lying to me about that.

I want to make clear my position ref lying being terminally unacceptable. I think this will be very hard to state to him in conversation as he will make try to challenge and get me off topic.

He is quite a bit older than you is he not? Used to treat you like a child? Used to be in authority ? He behaves towards you like you are a tantrumming toddler and he an oasis of calm righteousness.

Hi

I've been lurking & just wanted to say you've dealt with this so well up to know.

Definitely don't give him a heads up by emailing him your thoughts.

Try & get everything clear in your head before you speak to him so that he's not able to twist everything & leave you doubting yourself

Good luck

*up to now

SerotoninCanEatTomorrow Mon 25-Mar-13 15:33:28

Delueking to offer a virtual hand hold and solidarity. You are truly an amazing woman x

Xales Mon 25-Mar-13 15:45:50

Your H is a role model for a good defense is the best offense. Sorry sad He is turning this on you.

He 'threatens' you with the police as you went away unplanned and took the car. That was a threat. Not to actually call the police but to get you back in your place.

You owe him the small consideration of telling him where you are. You owe him fuck all consideration.

You need to 'tell' him why you are upset because disappearing doesn't help. He knows full well why you are upset as you mentioned the fucking reasons name.

He has zero intention of being honest with you.

Do you still think you can forgive all this if you have to drag every inch of information out of him? It has been 5 days that he has known he has been rumbled already.

I think my reply would be I am forwarding my information onto OWs H whether you intend to or not. That may get a response as you are 'threatening' her if you see what I mean?

JoySchtick Mon 25-Mar-13 17:05:34

-- Neglected to answer the age difference question before now.

There are seven years between us. He has more years. I have more maturity.

-- I have seen with my own eyes that he was exchanging sexually explicit messages with XX. They knew it was wrong and plotted to conceal it.

When I asked him who XX was and what was going on with her I hoped that he would be honest. Instead he went into over-denial mode - and gave me pens.

I have given him a chance to be truthful and now I want to confront him with the hard evidence.

Yes, the more that he lies and denies the deeper the hole he digs, the more he damns himself in my eyes.

I want to give him the chance to start to talk about this and sort it out, but if he won't admit to anything there is nothing I can do and I will ultimately have to end the relationship.

As there was such consensus from so many wise ones over not emailing him I won't do it. I will write down what I want to say and be ready to give it to him if I don't manage to say what I want to say.

something2say Mon 25-Mar-13 17:18:53

Good luck xx. Keep strong. I agree with the others. He has had every opportunity to tell you what's been going on. I think he wants to do damage limitation.

But you deserve the right to have your say. I will be thinking of you, what time is kick off? X

I think my reply would be I am forwarding my information onto OWs H

Yes, and adding 'He has a right to know you have been advising his wife how to cover her tracks'

This is what I would send to him. You don't actually need to do it, but it would put the wind up your H if he thought you might do it.

Distrustinggirlnow Mon 25-Mar-13 18:15:24

Hello joy, just wanted to say that I've been thinking of you...

I don't think you ought to give him the heads up by emailing him. You can write it down if you want to tho so you don't get distracted by him trying to deflect you.

Remember, ask a question then be quiet. The silence may drag on but do not be tempted to fill it other than to repeat the question.

You could start off by saying that you have some questions for him, and it is of the upmost importance that he answers truthfully.

Say to him that you will 'know' if he is lying.

Be careful not to lead with the questions. And make sure they're open ones that don't require yes or no answers....

I'm sure in day to day life you know all this and I'm not trying to teach you to suck eggs, but I've been where you are now and sometimes its reassuring to know you're taking the right approach.

I hope you get the response and outcome you want.

thanksthanks

Bogeyface Mon 25-Mar-13 18:37:38

I agree with Distrusting that asking the question and not saying anything else is a good way to go. I got alot of "What do you want me to say?" and I said "The truth" and when he lied (I had a bomb in my pocket in the form of his secret phone) and could look him in the eye and say "Dont lie to me. I know you are lying. Tell me the truth" and eventually (dear God it took forever) I got the truth that I already knew.

MadAboutHotChoc Mon 25-Mar-13 18:50:32

Bogeyface - that's the approach I used, after 10 mins of blustering and denial, I got the whole truth out of him.

JoySchtick Mon 25-Mar-13 19:24:03

All very helpful. thank you.

onefewernow Mon 25-Mar-13 19:24:27

I didn't.

It took two weeks of arguing and four weeks of counselling before he would stop denying it, even though I had moved rooms and consulted a solicitor .

Some are more sure of themselves than others.

AThingInYourLife Mon 25-Mar-13 19:27:24

Good luck, JoySchtick, he doesn't deserve you.

Ahhhcrap Mon 25-Mar-13 19:52:34

I hope it works out ok for you Joy. Many people have come back from these types of things to have stronger relationships. Only you will know if you're going to give him the chance to do that with you grin good luck

SweetSeraphim Mon 25-Mar-13 20:19:52

Hope everything goes ok tonight Joy thanks

SerotoninCanEatTomorrow Tue 26-Mar-13 07:39:10

Thinking of you today Joy, hope all went well xx

Distrustinggirlnow Tue 26-Mar-13 07:45:56

Bringing you a brew and hoping you're ok x

Hope everything went as you wanted it to last night Joy

JoySchtick Tue 26-Mar-13 08:49:45

It went really badly.

He denied there was anything. Kept trying to turn it all back on me / our marriage. I just kept repeating that we were not talking about that but about him and XX.

I showed him part of the evidence I have - the part where they discuss how to cover their tracks and make reference to 'sexy' things.

He claimed it was all a joke, tried to make out I was being ridiculous.

I went to our bedroom to end the conversation. He followed - i tried to close the door and he stopped me by standing in the doorway. "Blah, blah, blah... it's all your fault Joy. Why won't you discuss things properly."

I told him that as I know that he has lied to me what he says is now debased and we can't really discuss anything because I don't know if what he says is real or not.

Him - blah, blah, blah. I shouted at him he had been lying and that what he had done was truly horrible.

I figured he wasn't going to leave me alone so I got my coat and bag to go for a walk round the block.

He grabbed my bag, which was over my shoulder, and the strap broke. He grabbed at my coat collar, still shouting for the car keys.

Those f*@**ing car keys are like some kind of other woman.

flowers flowers flowers all round.

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 26-Mar-13 08:57:09

Sorry it didn't go well.

What will you do now?

Xales Tue 26-Mar-13 08:58:42

So sorry. He doesn't admit he has done anything wrong as far as he is concerned.

Shocked that he has moved to starting to physically handle you. That is also completely unacceptable.

/hugs

onefewernow Tue 26-Mar-13 08:59:21

I'm so sorry Joy.

His anger is really fear. I think they partly lie because of the kind of personality they have- remember not every man cheats or attempts to. They also want to make you doubt yourself. And the biggest reason- they are often lying to themselves, as they don't want to believe it of themselves. But he is gets away with this minimisation, it will get worse.

Try looking up psychological manipulation on wiki- I found this much later on. There is a list of tactics they use and types of people susceptible to it. You may ins it useful to have that in your head when you have the next conversation . I think you may be surprised how much of it he uses, even if you d

onefewernow Tue 26-Mar-13 09:00:00

Even if you don't immediately recognise it.

JoySchtick Tue 26-Mar-13 09:03:16

I don't know what I will do. His behaviour completely unacceptable.

He won't admit he has done anything wrong or take any responsibility. Ultimately I will have to end the relationship.

I will do practical things like find out the situation ref my right not to be thrown out of the house we live in, which is his property.

JoySchtick Tue 26-Mar-13 09:05:31

I want to try to make myself feel as secure as possible in a situation where I don't feel I have much control.

JoySchtick Tue 26-Mar-13 09:09:00

He didn't give me any pens this time but he left £60 this morning to fix my bag.

The first thing he said to me after things calmed down was, 'I'm sorry about your bag. Can it be fixed?'

And later on I thought -hmm, can it be fixed - are you really asking if our relationship can be fixed.

I don't know that it can. Not by me anyway.

onefewernow Tue 26-Mar-13 09:09:25

Sorry to keep posting, like a nut job! It's just that I think I have alot of experience in this, having tried to get the truth for five and a half years, albeit with less evidence than you have.

I wanted to add that the other reason underneath his reluctance to tell is possibly pure arrogance and entitlement, fundamentally he thinks he is cleverer than you.

Absolutely nobody would have pinned my h to what he was up to- but he thought he was smarter than me in diverting, minimising, turning the tables on me, changing the subject, charming me, you name it, anything not to have to admit.

Hopefully you won't have this. Please don't doubt yourself. You know what you saw and you can't unknow it.

JoySchtick Tue 26-Mar-13 09:10:03

Thanks, Onefewer. I will look up what you suggest.

sweetiepie1979 Tue 26-Mar-13 09:10:19

Agathaf is spot on!

JoySchtick Tue 26-Mar-13 09:11:24

x-post. I don't think you are a nutjob Onefewer!

Thank you for sharing your experience in this.

onefewernow Tue 26-Mar-13 09:14:36

Cross posted.

I agree with you. Most people say chuck him out, but I moved into the spare room and consulted a solicitor . We hardly spoke for 6 weeks.

He caved when he finally realised I was stronger than him this time.

By the way, I owned the house when we married but solicitor said that since some years had passed, that was largely historical and that courts wouldn't take it into account.

EggyFucker Tue 26-Mar-13 09:15:00

You could threaten to break the deadlock by telling ow's h,, show him the messages unless your h comes clean

I'm another one who thinks'well, if there's nothing to worry about, and it's a just a bit of a laugh, i'll email these 'conversations' to OWs DH and see what he says'??

he needs to be truthful, and work out why he's making plans to have an affair.

I'm so sorry you're having to go through this joy here's hoping he grows some morality thanks

AgathaF Tue 26-Mar-13 09:40:03

I'm so sorry it went badly. He is still in denial.

I agree with the other posters who have said threaten to email the OW's H for his take on it. However, I'm not sure what that would solve for you. It could blow it all open and get your H talking to you, it could make the situation a whole lot worse.

onefewernow Tue 26-Mar-13 09:43:34

You are quite possibly used to him having more if his own way or being stronger and wearing you down. If you are not used to lying yourself, it is really hard to hold out, whilst in the same house and still speaking.

Just try. You can do it.

Also- the car? That us either about control, or he has something in it he doesn't want you to see.

So sorry it didn't go how you had hoped Joy.

Whatever you decide to do next stay as strong as you have been this far & I don't think you'll go far wrong.

I know it must be so, so hard for you to know that he is outright lying to your face.

A friend did something similar to his wife & continued with the 'deny, deny, deny' thing until she stopped asking.

He is no longer a friend but I often wonder how things are between them now as she had evidence similar to yours & I can't see how she could have ever believed him.

ProphetOfDoom Tue 26-Mar-13 09:53:48

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ProphetOfDoom Tue 26-Mar-13 09:55:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JoySchtick Tue 26-Mar-13 10:06:17

And when he went to work this morning he was wearing a particularly flattering shirt / tie combination and looking dead attractive.

B*s***d.

Distrustinggirlnow Tue 26-Mar-13 10:08:06

Another nut job here lol

But seriously, sorry that you're disappointed how it went, but to be honest, IME and from what I've read on here, they very rarely if ever hold there hands up straight away and say yes, you're absolutely right, I've been giving an ow loads of attention and sex and I now realise that's its very wrong and I will stop it straight away. Please forgive me and you all live happily ever after...

No, I've never seen that happen.

Somewhere unthread someone mention that his anger is fear and I'm inclined to agree with this.

If he thinks its all a bit of a laugh, ask him why you were excluded from that particular bit of fun. Why did it have to be a secret?

Oh because you wouldn't have liked it. Funny that......

You may have to have more of these conversations if you want him to come clean and admit an EA or whatever.

From reading what you've said, its almost like its not what he's actually done, but the way he is dealing with this that is causing you more heartache.

I also like another posters comment of showing the ow DH the screen shots, see if they get the joke blush I don't know if I would actually do this, but I would probably threaten it.

When I suspected my DH of being economical with the truth one of my comments was, well shall we ring her then, see what she says, and that would make him sit up because he knew that I would!

Once my DH knew I'd seen secret email accounts he didn't try and deny any more. He did delete, but not all of it went and I recovered some of it. What he was economical with was the extent of it. Whether he'd met someone once or perhaps twice for example. Which in the mix of things may not be important but to me it was.

Can u see if he's messaged her again recently..? This doesn't necessarily need to be the end you know, but to move forward he must be truthful and not minimise how hurt you are by all this.

Sorry if I've rambled on smile
Keep getting interrupted!

Distrustinggirlnow Tue 26-Mar-13 10:13:51

Sorry, their not there!

Red flag in dressing smartly for work!

I'm also liking what Mathilda says...

ProphetOfDoom Tue 26-Mar-13 10:15:57

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ProphetOfDoom Tue 26-Mar-13 10:16:37

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JoySchtick Tue 26-Mar-13 10:23:09

From reading what you've said, its almost like its not what he's actually done, but the way he is dealing with this that is causing you more heartache.

^^ That's the one.

If he lies to me - not just about this but about who knows what - then our conversations will have nowhere to go but round in circles.

JoySchtick Tue 26-Mar-13 10:34:39

We have been married two years. Lived together just under two years - I moved into his house.

I contribute to household bills - I pay around one third of monthly outgoings minus mortgage costs.

I pay the mortgage on my own property.

His income is more than four times mine so that arrangement seemed about right to me.

onefewernow Tue 26-Mar-13 11:05:58

Everyone is more concerned about the lies. Because they display an underlying attitude. There are usually more lies too.

Be careful he doesn't just think he can wear you down by not admiring for days on end. That happened to me.

JoySchtick Tue 26-Mar-13 11:18:35

On a practical level what I want to know is this...if he says 'Joy this is my house get out' where do I stand?

Ahhhcrap Tue 26-Mar-13 11:23:11

I agree, I always maintained that it wasn't what my dh did, it was the lied and deceitful behaviour that caused me the most pain.

I'm not saying you should do this, but if he is minimising this, would he be happy with the ow's dh seeing the screen shoit?? If he's saying 'its nothing' then you could tell him you're going to share it with them too. Be interesting to see if he tries to minimise it then.

Another nut job here too..

Ahhhcrap Tue 26-Mar-13 11:23:57

I'm no expert but I think because you are married he can't simply kick you out

QuintEggSensuality Tue 26-Mar-13 11:24:40

I think you need to speak to a solicitor.

I also think you need to show the printouts to the OWs husband. For all you know the FB conversations were just the tip of the iceberg.

EggyFucker Tue 26-Mar-13 11:28:11

He cannot just kick you out...you are married and cannot be forced to leave where you reside even if he "owned" the house before you came on the scene

Take some legal advice

Do you have tenants in your own property ?

Consider giving them notice now, so you can move back into there

You are not trapped with this man

get some professional help with this

EggyFucker Tue 26-Mar-13 11:30:41

If he is doing this so early in yourt marriage, it reallt does not bode well

Sounds like a serial philanderer, who does it purely for the kickz

You should still be in the "honeymoon period"

Not living like this...it is horrendous

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 26-Mar-13 11:56:12
BOEUF Tue 26-Mar-13 12:02:38

Just pack your stuff and get out. Why delay it? You'll never get him out of his own gaffe after just two years of marriage, even if you've financially contributed.

AgathaF Tue 26-Mar-13 12:39:30

I think you need legal advice ASAP. Also, can you take copies of any relevant documents - mortgage, bank statements, pensions, shares etc? It may be that after 2 years of marriage, your legal position is simply that you leave with nothing, however, you should get your position clarified properly.

Lots of solicitors give a free half hour - can you phone around to find the earliest appointment. You don't have to stay with the solicitor if you don't like them, but just go for the initial advice.

something2say Tue 26-Mar-13 13:18:53

Community Legal Advice Helpline 0845 345 4345 Chargeable service but you could get a legal position today...

So very sorry to hear the way it went. Can't stand the thought that you didn't like what he said, went to get away and he got hold of you bodily and dragged you back and then started asking for the keys so that you couldn't get away in HIS car..........major control issues, he's just got to have it his way.

I'd get that legal advice, nove immediately into the spare room and get a lock fixed on the door. Go away every weekend, and buy your own old banger so you have a car of your own.

Meanwhile massive hugs from a stranger. xxx Fucking nob. (<<<Considered opinion.)

JoySchtick Tue 26-Mar-13 13:56:01

Thank you for all this info.

I do not want to find myself suddenly temporarily homeless.

I hope to tough it out here for now.

I could get back into my flat in the longer term.

Our financial assets are separate and I have no interest in gaining any assets from DH should our marriage breakdown.

BOEUF Tue 26-Mar-13 14:05:26

Should your marriage break down? It's not really looking like Shangri-la, is it? If he can't be remotely honest, there's no way to move forward, is there?

something2say Tue 26-Mar-13 14:05:35

You are married, therefore you have the right to reside. Claiming assets tho, may be a different matter, given the length of the marriage, but you are not looking to do that as you say, so I would venture that you are not homeless for now. I hesitate to use the word 'safe'.

Has he been in touch today?

How are you in yourself?

JoySchtick Tue 26-Mar-13 14:54:39

Thanks something.

No, he has not been in touch today.

I'm ok in myself. Bit down. I want to let things cam down a little bit as I find it very stressful to be on the other end of him trying to blame me for his behaviour and for problems in our marriage.

Almost anything I say he will find a way to question and turn back at me. I do not respond but I find it a real strain and it makes me sort of shut off.

I'm inclined to agree with those who say it would be unusual for him to just put his hands up and admit it straight off.

I'm going to ride it out for a bit. I will also look into practicalities

I've got to go out somewhere just now so I will be back online later.

JoySchtick Tue 26-Mar-13 14:55:18

Calm down.

ProphetOfDoom Tue 26-Mar-13 15:02:06

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 26-Mar-13 15:21:16

While you are sorting out the practicalities, I hope you have stopped doing his chores - shopping, cooking, washing etc.

This man is expecting you to continue to be his domestic servant while cheating on you.

something2say Tue 26-Mar-13 17:02:44

Yes Dr Something prescribes dinners with friends, long phonecalls, long baths, lying in bed thinking and writing in journals x So sorry x been there myself, the demise of a relationship is such a shock. Can you afford to pay for any counselling?

EggyFucker Tue 26-Mar-13 17:08:26

and Aunty Fucker recommends treating yourself much, much better than he is doing (which wouldn't be difficult..)

Xales Tue 26-Mar-13 17:35:18

Please don't ride it out for a bit and then let it slide into forgetfulness. Otherwise you will find yourself back on here when he actually does the deed sad

onefewernow Tue 26-Mar-13 17:44:45

And I prescribe separate beds and no responding to friendly conversation about unrelated matters. It' just erodes the sense of urgency and resolves, and tests your resolve. As they well know.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Tue 26-Mar-13 17:52:56

Just delurking to also say you really need legal advice from now on.

anyone who can be this wankery about what's happened can certainly try to turn nasty from now on.

Keep strong, you are doing amazingly xx

JoySchtick Tue 26-Mar-13 22:02:16

Thank you for some lovely comments.

I have been self-medicating and prescribed myself a hot chocolate, a chocolate and pistachio muffin and a nice bit of eavesdropping on cafe conversation; apparently St George's is a very cyclical church.

MadAboutHotChoc your comment about chores made smile. That is one area where I don't have any ishoos at all. DH does loads.

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 07:54:34

I’m contacting OW later – by phone or post - and telling her she needs to tell her DH asap.

Good to hear that you are self medicating!

I would really caution against getting in contact with the OW. Her marriage is her business - make your marriage yours and do what you need to do to either fix it or get out.

I'm not saying this flippantly, and in your shoes I'd be raging, but you have no idea what state her marriage is in, or what her relationship is like with her DH. If she has DC's you will be potentially be heaping a whole load of misery on them too.

I know that she has effectively invited that herself, but if all you are trying to gain is your DH telling the truth, why do that by telling OW's DH? Your DH could still continue lying.

AgathaF Wed 27-Mar-13 09:08:21

I think I would contact her too, in your shoes. Blow the pair of them out of the water. I know that is not the usual thing people advise, but I would so hate to be the last to know if it was my husband/wife/partner.

Doha Wed 27-Mar-13 12:25:31

If l was the OW's DH l would want to know

something2say Wed 27-Mar-13 13:46:06

Hello. I'll just be here to see what you decide to do in the end, and how it then goes. xx

NandH Wed 27-Mar-13 14:32:01

I'd also want to know if I were the ow dh...

your handling this very well!! thanks

LondonNinja Wed 27-Mar-13 14:54:12

Been wondering how you are. Sorry to read it's panning out the way it is...

You're doing really bloody well; you sound fabulous.

Hi Joy. Well, did you tell the OW or her DH?

I would like to say that if you have chosen to do this, then fair enough. I disagree with the poster who said that if you do this you would be potentially heaping a whole load of misery on her children. It is she herself who will have done this, she and her behaviour with your H. You are not responsible for her marriage or her children. Her actions and those of your H will have caused this misery.

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 18:34:46

Hello.

Just back from working.

I spoke to her. It was definitely the right thing to do. For me, I mean.

I said that she must know why I was calling. That she needed to tell her poor DH and the sooner the better.

She said yes and nothing else. She didn't seem thrown, not sure if she was expecting my call or if perhaps her DCs were around.

The first time I tried her number it was engaged, so I assume I wasn't the first wronged wife she had spoken to today. That's probably why she seemed to know the drill so well. shock

It was a very hard thing to do.

I hate him.

Xales Wed 27-Mar-13 18:40:40

Your H has been onto her and warned her so it is not a surprise to her in the slightest. Your H has told her that you have some insignificant information and that the pair of them can brazen it out as a 'joke'. So that is what she will do 'this daft bat has contacted me over these silly messages haha can you believe she is upset over something so pathetic. As if I would ever do more...'

She will now contact your H I think and you will be able to tell an awful lot about how he responds over the next few days.

Well done.

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 18:47:47

Mmm, yes. I do think she will probably let my H know.

What kind of thing will I be able to tell, Xales?

I really don't know what his reaction will be. It could be horrendous and that is why I was so worried about my rights ref him kicking me out of the house. Or he might think that's it now and it will all blow over.

Either way, he's a kn*b.

Xales Wed 27-Mar-13 18:55:37

Well you know he is a knob.

If it kicks off and he has a go at you for contacting her and putting her bang to rights he is telling you that protecting her (and himself) is way more important than you and your marriage.

If he goes quiet and refuses to interact with you he is punishing you for daring to step out of line and not just give this up like a good poppet (with a pat on the head).

If he finally realises you are serious he might come clean and you can sort this out. Don't hold your breath for this though please.

He is a shit and you deserve better any way.

Just remember you have done nothing wrong and are not at fault.

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 19:10:37

Hmm, I see. Thank you for that explanation.

I am not expecting him to come clean, so only hoping a tiny, tiny bit that it will be this reaction.

My guess would be that he will hope to brazen it out and get things back to (unacceptable) normal.

A little bit of me will laugh if he tries to have a go at me for contacting OW behind his back, imagine the irony of that.

EggyFucker Wed 27-Mar-13 19:12:38

Indeed, that would be most ironic, joy

You have the moral high ground, love

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Wed 27-Mar-13 19:34:20

De-lurking to say you are coping admirably and please seek legal advice. He will bluster and re-write history, call you unstable and profess innocence until you begin to doubt yourself. (He gave you pens, interesting symbolism if one believes that kind of thing).

Someone upthread suggested he may have something like a second phone in his car. Or he may be unconsciously laying claim to assets now because he knows he is on very thin ice.

Does he know you come on MN?

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 19:43:41

Thanks, EF. I've actually spent so much time on the moral high ground in recent years it has become my new normal.

Pens, pens? What is the symbolism of pens? Donkeys please?

I checked the pens. One is a fountain pen, I haven't used one of these since I was about nine and even then it was a disaster. The other gift is actually a pen holder rather than a pen.

I came home tonight to find something else added to the pile, a small box of matching ink pellet things which you put in fountain pens (don't know what they are called). I've got quite a little heap on my dressing table now.

EggyFucker Wed 27-Mar-13 19:46:50

Joy, it's bizarre

this pen thing

wtf does he thing that is going to mollify you ?

Xales Wed 27-Mar-13 19:49:29

lol you are not left handed are you? I find fountain pens a nightmare!

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 19:51:18

I did go and check the car, although not to MI6 standards.

I had already spotted golf clubs in the boot. H does not play golf, or even like it as far as I understand. On the stupid FB chat his gambit for meeting up was something like:

"We should meet for golf... or just meet...."

Ooh, just look at that sexy and suggestive line of dots....

Anyway the golf clubs are H's, which he had from when he tried to like golf, he gave them to his DS but has evidently now retrieved them. I assume that OW likes golf.

My gut instinct is that the car keys obsession is just about control and "it's my car not yours Joy".

BOEUF Wed 27-Mar-13 19:51:23

You get pens off Michael Parkinson if you apply for funeral coverage <helpful>

EggyFucker Wed 27-Mar-13 19:53:19

smile at boeuf

it really is laughable, if it wasn't so fucking sad

Xales Wed 27-Mar-13 19:53:25

My gut instinct is that the car keys obsession is just about control and "it's my car not yours Joy".

Spot on.

Well done for contacting the OW - very brave of you! I'm glad it was a positive thing for you.

Scarlet I agree, and think I said in my post that the OW has brought misery etc on herself, but I as you rightly said her marriage is her business, and I couldn't see how Joy talking to her DH would get Joys DH to start being honest.

Good luck with whatever happens next Joy, I can't believe how he's brazening this out!

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 19:58:17

EF - I have no idea. [mystified shrug face]

I don't think H knows that I come on MN, can't be sure though.

I first clocked OW as a repeating presence on H's browsing history (ie when I checked the computer but before I hacked his Facebook and saw the messages blush). I checked out her FB page, as you do, and I thought she looked like a laugh and that she looked like she might be an MNer.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Wed 27-Mar-13 20:07:21

She could be one of us...

<shifty side looks>

Nahhhh! We're way more classy!

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 20:10:01

Er, thanks, boeuf. I'll definitely bear that in mind. confused

Contacting the OW was positive for me because I felt that I was standing up for myself. I was saying - to the pair of them - I am here and this is what is and is not acceptable to me.

Even if as they continue to disrespect me I have made my presence felt and that makes me feel stronger in myself.

I didn't imagine that contacting the OW would make my H confess.

It was more about saying 'I'm here and even if you don't give a damn about me, I do give a damn about myself. I won't be played for a fool.

Xales Wed 27-Mar-13 20:12:24

Had you told your H you had her phone number? If he thought you just had some email evidence that may shock him into realizing you know a lot more than you have let on.

Good for you, I hope she's sh*tting herself about your next move now.

You knowing & having that over her may keep her guessing & looking over her shoulder for a long time.

Now to think of revenge that you can get way down the line that's untraceable to you wink

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 20:22:40

It seems a bit controversial to contact the OW.

After I'd done it I thought this:

--Being straightforward and dignified was undoubtedly and definitely the right way to do it.
--If I had wanted to somehow get even or hurt her with insults it would have been a waste of time and left me feeling like a powerless fool - and probably even more hurt and angry.
--My first duty is to look after myself and, if I want to, my marriage.

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 20:24:06

Right - H just left message on my mobile asking me to call him as 'this' is very, very serious.

Landline rang. Mobile rang.

He's doing pissed off response.

Bit scared.

Rachel184 Wed 27-Mar-13 20:25:35

Can I ask, how is your marriage? I'm not being mean, and i know everyone is telling you to get rid. But do you think it's simple, if not prolonged flirtation? And maybe a bit of a thrill in seeing if she would meet up? As far as you know they haven't, maybe if it came down to it he would back off?

You know him, your married.. Does he have it in him? Messages are one thing, following through to completion is a very different situation.

If my H was doing that, I'd give him the benefit if doubt, and like you I'd be in stealth mode and gather my evidence.

If in your position I would be very calm, explain my conversation with OW (if she hasn't already told him) and let him explain. If your relationship was good before this, then this could be a blip ( not a nice one). Or if its bad, he could be looking for a way out, so sorry but that could be an explanation.

Have an honest conversation, your relationship can be restored, but only if you both want it.

My heart goes out to you, hope the outcome is good for you.thanks

EggyFucker Wed 27-Mar-13 20:25:35

Are you ignoring ?

Good for you.

Xales Wed 27-Mar-13 20:27:07

Hand squeeze here. Not much use I know. /hugs

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 20:27:59

What if he comes home and starts shouting and maybe even worse?

ShipwreckedAndComatose Wed 27-Mar-13 20:28:21

Holding your hand from here...

You have done the right thing imo

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 20:28:38

His tone sounded like 'right, you have played right into my hands'. it didn't sound like genuine anger.

EggyFucker Wed 27-Mar-13 20:28:58

If he does that, call the police

ShipwreckedAndComatose Wed 27-Mar-13 20:29:03

Anyone you can call?

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 20:30:02

I am ignoring. I'm feeling really scared.

Maybe I should just ring and find out the worst. Maybe he won't come home (brightens)

Xales Wed 27-Mar-13 20:30:57

You leave or if you feel threatened you call the police. Keep your phone close to you. You do not have to accept any mistreatment at all.

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 20:31:11

Shipwrecked I'm in a v bad position in that we live in London commuter belt and all my friends etc in London.

No one near here I know.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Wed 27-Mar-13 20:31:15

Don't ring!

My gut feeling is that this would be playing into his hands!

Do you have a RL friend you can go to?

ShipwreckedAndComatose Wed 27-Mar-13 20:31:44

Xpost!

Shame!

Ahhhcrap Wed 27-Mar-13 20:32:42

Turn it back on him... If he's annoyed you contacted her, just tell him 'well you said it wasn't anything serious and I was over reacting, so as its completely innocent, then I didn't think you'd have a problem with me either talking to her, or her telling her DH' or words to that effect.

Xales Wed 27-Mar-13 20:33:09

Calling could be he just shouts at you and is nasty over the phone so you can judge whether to be there when he gets home or not. That is safer than if he stews, comes home and explodes.

Unfortunately you do not see his face/actions to know if he is lying to you more.

onefewernow Wed 27-Mar-13 20:33:13

Oh fuck him Joy, he isn't your dad. At this late stage I would let him talk first, or shout, if he prefers.

Than say you must be clear by now that I have far more evidence than you have been aware so far. Will you tell me in your own words what you have done?

Leave space.

If he blusters I would finally tell him that if you have to tell him, rather than him admit, then you will call a solicitor and start divorce proceedings. Do say this WHETHER YOU INTEND TO OR NOT.

I bet money he will then cave. If not, start those moves. Believe me, he will spill when he sees you taking action to end the relationship.

Ps it is his car but your joint house. Also your legal home. He can't throw you out.

If he tries tell him you will call the police.

Prepare to be surprised how far he shifts once this plan is in action.

Mine caved after nearly 6 years of lies and crap and denials of his adultery, once I took this sort of firm action.

EggyFucker Wed 27-Mar-13 20:33:15

Stay right where you are

If he turns up and is verbally or physically aggressive, call the police

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 20:36:22

OK. Will stay here. Will get fleeing bag ready just in case.

I know he has lied to me. I don't give a toss about finding out much more.

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 20:37:59

Don't think they had got to physical as one of latest messages was 'what would you have done if I had kissed you last night as I wanted to'.

Also H kept insisting that this was a woman he had met once in 18 years.
He was very keen on that bit of the conversation. Kept returning to it.

Snazzynewyear Wed 27-Mar-13 20:40:14

Don't ring.

onefewernow Wed 27-Mar-13 20:41:38

I wasn't suggesting digging for more. Get him to admit what you know to be true. He has not admitted it yet, has he?

onefewernow Wed 27-Mar-13 20:43:53

Or given how far it has gone, tell him, if he doesn't admit it.

If I had to do that I would have to leave. It's bad enough to hold out on the truth, but to never admit is show you he thinks you are a fool.

Which you are most certainly not.

onefewernow Wed 27-Mar-13 20:46:53

And you should NOT be frightened. He is just a man, not god.

My h was a worse shit than yours, but I have never once feared him, in 20 years.

If you have fear, after 2, even once, tomorrow ask yourself why.

something2say Wed 27-Mar-13 21:05:18

Just wanted to stick my oar in to say I am here too Joy. Keep posting xxxx

SerotoninCanEatTomorrow Wed 27-Mar-13 21:05:21

when will he be home Joy?

AgathaF Wed 27-Mar-13 21:08:12

It is worrying that you are frightened. Has he been violent before? Keep your phone to hand and make sure it is charged.

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 21:08:57

right. have stuff to grab in flight if needed. was in pyjamas before blush and it is cold outside.

he has called about 8 times on my mobile and also on landline.

i am being selfish. i'm putting a marriage at risk and there are children involved. i don't know what i have done. i've taken this to a new level.

it was just two bored people exchanging messages, a bored housewife. this is very, very serious and i can't do this kind of thing.

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 21:09:45

he sounds scared actually, while pretending to be angry.

something2say Wed 27-Mar-13 21:11:55

I think she has been on the phone to him crying about the risk you pose to her marriage and he wants to have a go at you for upsetting her.....that's how it reads to me.....

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 21:12:47

don't know when he will be home.

the other night, monday, when i confronted him was first time he got physical. it was not good. he didn't back away when i asked him to, so that i could pick up my bag. followed me upstairs and started telling me how i goaded him and i didn't know how irritating i was. it felt very wrong to me and i realised that if i wanted to get out i would have nowhere local to go.

EggyFucker Wed 27-Mar-13 21:13:27

Joy, calm down

What are you saying ?

you have jeopardised your marriage ???

no, you haven't

he has been messaging other women in a sexual manner

that isn't compatible with a monogamous partnership

are you forgetting that in your panic ?

why are you frightened ?

you haven't sounded frightened before...if he turns up and threatens you, call the police

ShipwreckedAndComatose Wed 27-Mar-13 21:13:43

YOUR putting a marriage at risk!!!

That takes the bloody biscuit, that does!!

ShipwreckedAndComatose Wed 27-Mar-13 21:14:47

Eggy, isn't she quoting the messages??

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 21:15:22

EF grin grin grin

Those are the messages he left for me. sorry wasn't very clear in my typing.

I do need to calm down.

EggyFucker Wed 27-Mar-13 21:16:06

Yes, I realise she is quoting the messages, and I am countering them as she should be (in her head....no way should she be responding)

Xales Wed 27-Mar-13 21:16:58

She chose to send messages to your H not you. You did not force her or him to do this. They chose it. Her H could have found out about it all without your intervention. You haven't said you will tell her H just that she should.

You haven't done anything wrong.

The tell/don't tell OW's H is like marmite. Some are for it some hate it.

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 21:17:22

I think OW is freaking out and has asked him to make me stop.

how nice for them both if i just jolly well shut up.

melezka Wed 27-Mar-13 21:17:41

started telling me how i goaded him and i didn't know how irritating i was. it felt very wrong

Have only been watching, amazed at your grace and strength. Still all that - but now I am worried.

onefewernow Wed 27-Mar-13 21:17:45

Joy you have put nothing or nobody at risk.

She has. He has.

If they have done nothing wrong THEY HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR.

What risk is it to her marriage if it is just boredom, as you say?

They started an emotional affair and all three of you know it. If he does, so what ? That puts all four in the know.

Please stop blaming yourself for his shit. It is just worry and fear. Which you shouldn't have.

Stay strong. You have been so clearheaded up to this point, where he has made you frightened.

Don't let him control you, or her.

You have done NOTHING wrong.

Xales Wed 27-Mar-13 21:18:16

Sorry just re read that.

He doesn't seem to care much about your marriage at risk does he? It is all about hers sad

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 21:19:11

Any risk to OW's relationship is far more important than any upset to me - clearly.

melezka Wed 27-Mar-13 21:20:50

sad

Xales Wed 27-Mar-13 21:21:07

Yes it is. Do you still think he is going to come clean and this is retrievable?

Ahhhcrap Wed 27-Mar-13 21:21:19

Exactly Joy!

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 21:21:30

you are all helping so much.

TweedWasSoLastYear Wed 27-Mar-13 21:21:53

If he does come home try and keep yourself between the phone and him ( LL )
If he does become aggressive just pick it up and hit 999 asap, even if you dont speak they will call back or send a car round , eventually.
Hope it doesnt come to that , I really do.

Do you have anyone next door to keep an ear out for you?

If you are really frightened leave , go to a hotel. If you are not there it will diffuse the immediate situation and you can get some sleep without worrying if he comes in drunk at midnight ranting.

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 21:22:53

happily i have emailed the messages to a very safe address.

something2say Wed 27-Mar-13 21:23:47

Joy have the phone in your back pocket and if he won't let you get away, start dialling in your pocket if you can, just 999 and give them your location immediately, don't waste time xxxxx. After that, or if you end up leaving without calling the police, go to a local hotel. Xxxxxxxx

onefewernow Wed 27-Mar-13 21:26:03

Well flame me, but if he hit me first, and I was fearful, then I would kick him in the nuts. Then phone the police.

Violence is intolerable but female self defence is not. In my view. Not that I have any experience mind you.

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 21:27:43

i am planning to keep my mobile in pocket. it is charged.

starting to feel calmer.

I do find ranting very difficult - and especially having little hooks thrown out to reel me in and embroil me in a fight. That is very stressful to me.

something2say Wed 27-Mar-13 21:28:09

Most perpetrators will then deny they hit first, but oh look at these injuries from her!!!! Most victims will admit what they did.

No hitting perpetrators, ladies xx. They are dangerous in many ways xx

something2say Wed 27-Mar-13 21:29:30

Joy do you not think you might want to take off now to an hotel somewhere? Sitting waiting for it must be a nightmare. Why not take the bull by the horns, get out of there and only come back when you are ready, or tomorrow when he is likely to be calmer?

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 21:29:38

I am going to make some herbal tea. It's what won the war you know.

onefewernow Wed 27-Mar-13 21:30:47

Fair enough. Well dial 99 and then add the third 9 if he lays a hand on you.

onefewernow Wed 27-Mar-13 21:31:20

Or arrange to meet him away from him eg local cafe or pub

onefewernow Wed 27-Mar-13 21:32:06

Or scream like fuck.

Boosterseat Wed 27-Mar-13 21:34:37

Enjoy your brew Joy, while he stews over your next move, he really is reeling isn't he now the balance of power has shifted!

You still hold all the cards.Please stay safe, strong and keep posting.

ProphetOfDoom Wed 27-Mar-13 21:37:04

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 21:42:44

perhaps he'd like to engage that little known emotion - his conscience - and stop deflecting blame on you who's discovered her husband has betrayed her in the most hurtful of ways, and start behaving with some responsibility and self-honesty.

indeed - that is clearly a very unpalatable thought for him.

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 21:45:21

something I was on the verge of it but I think I will stay here and see how it goes.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Wed 27-Mar-13 21:47:50

Good luck smile

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Wed 27-Mar-13 21:49:54

He has had an earful from OW. Perhaps he fears her H will show up and confront him. Be dressed with shoes or boots on for a quick exit. Keep your phone on you. If you get the impression he has been drinking, dutch courage perhaps, do not put yourself at risk.

If as suggested above, he complains about you upping the ante needlessly, turn what he said back to him. If it was all innocent why is he even discussing it now? Why would she be upset? How could her marriage be at risk? More to the point why does he care and why does he think you would?

Any talk of stalking or bunny boiler possessiveness, any counter claim that you must have a guilty conscience to suspect him of such a thing, ask him quietly if that really is all he has to say. Sometimes not filling a conversational gap forces them to fill it.

He will feel embarrassed and thwarted and possibly fearful of OW's H. If he shows any physical or verbal intimidation, go.

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 21:54:46

I can't resist sharing this. On OW's FB page today she wrote, 'the dog has just escaped'. So apt, seeing as things have certainly run out of control for them.

I think they are panicking their little pants off.

What they need is a safe, supportive chat board type of environment where they can reflect and get some perspective.

OK, Joy, stop gloating

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 21:57:07

I agree that he has probably had either an earful or a terrified, teary call from OW.

Boots at the ready.

something2say Wed 27-Mar-13 21:59:28

One right up his arse perhaps ??

melezka Wed 27-Mar-13 22:00:09

I have read thread but maybe I missed it - why isn't he at home with you, trying to convince you to stay with him, rather than telling you things are very very serious and not being by your side?

Sorry maybe I missed something here - ?

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 22:03:37

grin something you made me snort.

melezka I don't know the answer to your question above ^^. But I did like being described as having grace. Thank you.

Hissy Wed 27-Mar-13 22:03:37

So the dog's escaped, AND the Cat's out of the bag.

Bit careless with her pets isn't she...

ProphetOfDoom Wed 27-Mar-13 22:04:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

melezka Wed 27-Mar-13 22:05:34

Fnarrrrr Hissy

I aim for grace, very rarely achieve it, hence my awe at grace and a nice turn of phrase in such trying circumstances smile

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 22:23:36

He is not back so far. I am going to lie down and close my eyes for a bit.

I can't log on to MN from my iPhone for some reason and I don't like to do it at work. If I only do a very brief update in the morning that will be why.

I wouldn't want you to worry.

I'll have my boots by the bed but I don't feel frightened now. I can see it is mostly bluster.

melezka Wed 27-Mar-13 22:25:28

Will check on you in the morning then.

You are great.

Xales Wed 27-Mar-13 22:25:45

Stay safe and I hope you get some rest.

watchingout Wed 27-Mar-13 22:30:43

De-lurking to say sleep/snooze well.

Remember YOU can set the timetable for any discussions. Don't feel you have to do this tonight. Where is he FFS?! Hoping he can catch you out in stressed out/sleep deprived mode? If he does come back, you can calmly tell him you'll discuss this in the morning. Maybe. thanks

Jojay Wed 27-Mar-13 22:32:54

Marking my place

Joy, you are an inspiration! Stay strong and sleep well x

TheEasterBunnyVsTheKids Wed 27-Mar-13 22:32:55

Stay safe and get some sleep smile

whethergirl Wed 27-Mar-13 22:33:06

So now it's serious all of a sudden? And you're the unreasonable one for contacting her? Is he attempting a world record at irony?

Idiot. All I can say is, at least his true colours are shining through and he is not trying to confuse you with bullshit (speaking from experience...you sound too smart for that anyway)

You're fab, Joy. You'll be fine and you'll have a much better life without him. He's the type to just roll around in his own shit for years and blame the smell on someone else.

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 22:34:01

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

whethergirl Wed 27-Mar-13 22:35:32

Gobsmacked.

GoodtoBetter Wed 27-Mar-13 22:36:02

Just delurking to say...God, what a twat he is.

whethergirl Wed 27-Mar-13 22:37:38

If I wasn't so shocked at his audacity, the bit where he talks about their "ethical values and family commitments" would have made me roar with laughter.

Bessie123 Wed 27-Mar-13 22:37:53

Words fail me. What an utterly stupid cunt

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Wed 27-Mar-13 22:38:30

Took a while to compose that, perhaps OW helped if not out looking for the family pet.

melezka Wed 27-Mar-13 22:39:51

Yes. That is why she did not even sound slightly surprised when you rang her. Because of her ethical values.

What. The. Actual. Fuck.

TheEasterBunnyVsTheKids Wed 27-Mar-13 22:40:05

Maybe report your post op, and ask for her name t be censored, just in case.

Otherwise, I agree with everyone else, your H is a twat of the first order. I hope you are still arranging your particulars, and planning to leave?

MidnightMasquerader Wed 27-Mar-13 22:41:10

Good lord...

He does actually think this is all your fault, doesn't he?! confused

Time for him to seriously cop on.

Loulybelle Wed 27-Mar-13 22:42:53

What fecking planet does that man think hes on, OP i think this one is LTB situation now.

EggyFucker Wed 27-Mar-13 22:44:36

No surprises there

he is racking up the Blame Game

pay no mind, Joy

DragonMamma Wed 27-Mar-13 22:46:09

Fucking hell.

He's seriously deluded.

Eurgh. Such a cunt.

Hattie23 Wed 27-Mar-13 22:48:09

Oh my. Had to add my voice of support for you Joy. That text is just...just... words fail me.
Stay safe. I doubt I can help but am in SE London if I can be of any use.

onefewernow Wed 27-Mar-13 22:48:20

He hadnt fucked her so it was acceptable? What a twat. A self righteous twat in denial.

He actually has NO IDEA how far it would have gone. Most unfaithful people start at A and expect to get to B OR C at most. They justify each step as the adrenaline flows. They usually end up at Z.

Read Shirley Glass. Well researched, not some googled crap.

I'm sad for you, because this man is UNABLE to take responsibility.

I would now talk to his first wife too. It will all be there, no doubt.

Do not, please do not, blame yourself.

I have been on MN since Nov 2011 when getting advice on my own h's many online flings. Therefore I have seen now hundreds of threads on this subject. I have heard of men as unwilling to admit or confess- my own was one.

But I have never heard of one who was so self righteous and blaming if the victim.

Poor you x

ja9 Wed 27-Mar-13 22:50:19

Huge sympathies. Just wanted to say I am thinking of you. Hoping you're managing to get some sleep and everything isn't swimming about in your head keeping you awake.

candyandyoga Wed 27-Mar-13 22:50:19

Move on and find a decent man. He has serious issues. He doesn't sound right in the head.

Seriously, don't waste any more time on this lowlife.

JoySchtick Wed 27-Mar-13 22:51:21

Deleted post without real names......

Just got this text from him:

^You really overstepped the mark. Your selfishness has potentially done irreparable damage to several innocent parties. I am the sole person you need to deal with. This incident was an innocent exchange between 2 people who have a lot of issues in their lives and who engaged in harmless escapism. The ethical values and family commitments of myself and XX meant nothing would ever spill over into real life. Her values meant she could never hurt her family and my values mean infidelity is never an option. You by your actions have crossed that line, with no consideration for XXs children or husband. Why? Why? Why? Nothing happened and nothing would have happened. Why? Why? Why?^

Off to bed.

(thank you for heads up. sorry)

Bessie123 Wed 27-Mar-13 22:51:44

He is seriously deluded and his ego must be the size of a planet. If I were in your situation I don't think I would even bother trying to work it out with him he is obviously too narcissistic to be capable of any meaningful discussion.

melezka Wed 27-Mar-13 22:52:33

I've heard of cosplay and seen some serious costumes but the golf clubs were a serious prop for a "harmless fantasy" game.

I call serious bullshit. Do not accept even a speck of this spraying anywhere near you.

whethergirl Wed 27-Mar-13 22:55:24

Joy, are you ok?

Mrsgorgeous Wed 27-Mar-13 22:58:20

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

watchingout Wed 27-Mar-13 22:58:20

What an arse.

fraggletits Wed 27-Mar-13 22:58:54

Another one just stepping out of Lurkdom to lend support Joy.

Stay clear, stay focussed - don't get sucked in and believe anything he says. You are not the selfish one, you have merely uncovered their affair and you won't have the piss taken out of you.

The dream scenario? Go for their jugulars, send everything you've got to her H (if you can?), get an appointment with a family law solicitor and drop fuck faces car keys down a drain on your way.

I'm so sorry for your pain. you sound just brilliant Joy - it's gonna be ok x

He is such a cock. Sending you positive vibes OP and wishing you strength to get through this shit patch of your life.

Again, what a cock. angry

watchingout Wed 27-Mar-13 23:03:30

I second MrsG. An emotional affair is just as damaging as a physical affair. Maybe even more so, cos no-one can claim " I was drunk. I didn't know what I was doing..."

Wonder if its the same OW?!

MooMooSkit Wed 27-Mar-13 23:08:10

I've read this from start to finish and I actually cannot believe this guy is for real. So he can share sexual fantasies and talk about agreeing to meet other woman and that's OK? He should be BEGGING you for another chance and wanting to save the marriage, not worried about poor sodding Amanda. She can go fuck herself to. What a pair of cunts.

NishiNoUsagi Wed 27-Mar-13 23:13:48

Oh Joy, he really is a laughable, laughable loser, isn't he sad

"Your selfishness"?? [angru} If I'm reading this right, you've contacted the OW, you haven't contacted her H yet (so I'm assuming at this point in time he doesn't know?), so how has anything you've done harmed anybody? Unlike him, whose utterly selfish actions have hurt you and seem to have put the OW in a very awkward position. HIS actions have put her in that position, NOT yours. Saying (repeatedly) that you wished you could have kissed someone an innocent message from a married man? As for that bullshit about ethical values and family commitments... words fail me. Well, non-sweary words fail me anyway.

I still can't see how you have done anything to hurt OW or her children - together they put themselves in that position, and he has hurt you immensely on top of that, yet he has the nerve to talk about you crossing lines and overstepping marks. He's just grasping at ever more mental straws now.

If it was all "just a bit of a laugh", how would it possibly cause so much damage?
How the hell has he gone from "I'm being selfish, I'm ruining a marriage.." to blaming you?

Joy, it must be horrible to see him behaving like this. I'm glad you're here for support so he can no way convince you that any of this is your fault. He is a total twat.

NishiNoUsagi Wed 27-Mar-13 23:15:08

Ahem. [angru} should be angry
It's really hard to type through a red mist! smile

MidnightMasquerader Wed 27-Mar-13 23:20:47

Just a reminder Joy, that all you have done is ask her to do the decent (unrecognisable concept for her, clearly) thing and tell her husband; you haven't told her husband (or anyone else) and you haven't even threatened to tell her husband.

And yet your 'D'H has unleashed the canons on you, in response to that...

It's completely fucked up, it really is. You are, unfortunately, getting a loud and clear message from him. I'm sorry he is such an inherently awful person, and you're having to deal with the fallout.

Boosterseat Wed 27-Mar-13 23:20:56

Incredulous for you Joy.

What a class A twat.

I'm not even sure he is deluded, he's a rat in a trap.

Are you going to her DH?

Snazzynewyear Wed 27-Mar-13 23:21:39

He's texting about your selfishness and his ethics and family values? FFS I have never heard anything so ridiculous. And as for 'Why? Why? Why?' has he been reading/writing particularly bad poetry lately? He sounds like a bad am dram actor in my head.

IMO there are two possible responses to that text:

- No reply at all. Ignore, ignore, ignore (make that your personal mantra in the way that 'Why? Why? Why?' seems to have become his.

- 'Please direct all future communications through my solicitors'.

Seriously, don't waste your time dealing with someone who has such a fundamental lack of integrity and self-knowledge. Time to take the high road and start on living a better life without him.

ChasedByBees Wed 27-Mar-13 23:38:55

Just read this. So - you were being ridiculous and over reacting at messages which were clearly a joke, but if you share that joke you're putting someone's marriage at risk? So which is it? Are these messages things which can potentially ruin a marriage or just some harmless fun? Because they can't be both.

He is an arse BTW.

melezka Wed 27-Mar-13 23:38:56

'Why? Why? Why?'
He's been listening to CeeLo again hasn't he?
And even CeeLo knows he sounds silly.

onefewernow Wed 27-Mar-13 23:43:55

Oh, golf clubs at the ready AND advice to OW on how to cheat on her h so he doesn't find out, and how to cover her tracks.

Jesus, you couldn't make it up.

I swear this man is a natural. He's done it before, and got away with it.

And I just love jus disappointed paternalistic tone.

Not to mention the near violence under threat of your disobedience on Friday in daring to disbelieve him.

Dear oh dear.

I almost wish Eggyfucker was still up. She's have a coronary.

WinterMymble Wed 27-Mar-13 23:58:02

Joy you are awesome. Full of bravery class and, yes, grace.

Please ltb. He is seriously delusional to send a text like that. And frankly a scary bully - I am v uneasy about how he broke the bag. Please stay safe. X

Teeb Thu 28-Mar-13 00:00:07

Never said this before, but leave the bastard. He just sounds like a nasty piece of work quite frankly, while you are a witty, articulate woman who shouldn't be around a waste of space like that any longer.

Sailormercury Thu 28-Mar-13 04:25:24

He and his OW are absolutely vile. I hope you're ok brew

Chubfuddler Thu 28-Mar-13 05:07:43

You'll go stir crazy trying to 1) get him to admit the full extent of everything that has gone on 2) get him to accept personal responsibility for his actions.

He isn't going to joy. Hell will freeze over first.

This isn't a criminal trial. You don't have to satisfy his burden of proof to justify your feelings of hurt, anger and betrayal. You know what you know. I don't think forgiveness and repair are really possible here as he has no intention of admitting what has happened and working with you to rebuild your relationship. So. It's a simple choice.

Do you let it slide, and he carries on behaving like this on and off, chucking occasional Mont Blanc pens and other pointless material things your way.

Or do you leave.

It's one or the other sadly. You aren't with a man who is going to realise he has majorly fucked up and put in the hours to fix this. That text tells you everything about his attitude you need to know.

mathanxiety Thu 28-Mar-13 05:23:47

Joy, though you may feel wobbly and afraid to rush to judgement and all that, that text looks to me like the ultimate dealbreaker.

You are only two years into marriage that he says he values so highly, and you have another two years before that when you and he were presumably in the thick of passion together. Four years is not enough to want to salvage after that anger and blame and all the crap you have had thrown at you since you first posted. Cut your losses.

You know everything you need to know about this pathetic, delusional sadarse. Just be thankful you learned it while you are able to up sticks and not have to consider children.

SissySpacekAteMyHamster Thu 28-Mar-13 05:27:07

What a Grade A shit he is! I think I would be out of there without a backward glance.

He looks like a total fool as well as he was giving her advice on covering her tracks and it was him who got found out... ha ha!

I don't say this often, but LTB.

ArtVandelay Thu 28-Mar-13 06:11:06

Joy, I've lurked on your thread hoping that your H would be decent. I'm just posting now to send my virtual support to you.

That sms he sent you is pompous and ridiculous, short of him having a neurological illness, I couldn't excuse this or his other behaviours.

You sound immensely strong and intelligent. Good luck, Joy.

ProphetOfDoom Thu 28-Mar-13 06:56:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SocFish Thu 28-Mar-13 07:17:46

Joy

I am IN NO WAY condoning your husband's behaviour. I think your relationship is sunk, but I definitely think you have played a part in the downfall. And perhaps a lot more than you are letting on here.

If I found my husband secretly reading "Should I stay, or Should I go", I'd very much doubt he was that invested in our relationship.

How soul destroying to find your spouse reading a book like that.

Why do you want to stay with him? You were obviously considering leaving anyway? Why all this attention seeking?

AgathaF Thu 28-Mar-13 07:35:17

"You really overstepped the mark". You did? You?

What the fuck does he think he did?

Deluded twat.

Xales Thu 28-Mar-13 07:38:04

SocFish you don't think Joy may have been reading that book as her H has disconnected as he has emotionally put his emotional energies in to another woman and tried to arrange to meet her at the expense of putting into his wife and marriage? He will have been doing that a while, maybe as long as they have had issues as it is probably the cause.

She is reading that book because he has disconnected not he is contacting other women because she brought that book.

If that upset him he should have knocked the sexy flirting with another woman on the head and talked like an adult about their marriage.

OP first posts are about how she hopes he realises what he has done and they can sort their marriage.

OP has said there were issues in their relationship not hard to see why when he lies through his teeth, blames her and tries to get in other women's pants so she read a book to try and help herself get to the bottom of it.. Her H says there were issues so he tries to get in another woman's pants.

Funny both you and he are saying how hurt he would be over a self help book. Not how devastated OP would be to find her H trying to meet another woman.

something2say Thu 28-Mar-13 07:40:27

Not entirely sure that's fair. From the way he sounds, I wouldn't think he is that nice to her so why not read a book about the future of the relationship? He has then iced the cake by having this inline flirtation and the resulting behaviour clarity....

That book may simply have been Joys way of thinking things through. Nd I would say she needed to, based on what's come to light now.

Joy, are you alright?? Loads from everyone else but not from yow xxxx

Xales Thu 28-Mar-13 07:40:56

Joy it is amazing what they give up when you stay silent.

He again reiterate that he wouldn't have an affair because he is too moral when you have hard proof he tried to and never actually said he did...

fraggletits Thu 28-Mar-13 07:41:54

Socfish I've read Lundy Bancroft and am still in my marriage. It's because of having nagging doubts about behaviour, about looking for explanations for things.

I'm still here because things haven't come to a head yet like they have for Joy. We don't know everything that has been going on in her marriage obviously but I certainly don't think she's attention seeking now.

Hope you're ok Joy

JoySchtick Thu 28-Mar-13 07:43:55

mornng - v quickly to say that i am fine and I am at work.

he came home and ranted. I was safe.

thank you all so much. talk later

ArtVandelay Thu 28-Mar-13 07:45:03

Hmmm... If I found my husband reading should I stay or should I go then I think I would probably just ask him what he was reading it for. It wouldn't really occur to me to start facebooking sex messages to people smile

Anyway, half that title is should I stay - so that says to me its a helping book. Should the Op not work at keeping her relationship healthy?

It sounds like the relationship was not perfect anyway, but then whose is? No excuses for Mr Schtick.

QuintEggSensuality Thu 28-Mar-13 07:46:06

The only possibly explanation (in my mind) I can see for this backlash is that the OW has confessed more to her husband than Joy knows, on the assumption that Joy knew more. Ow could have told her husband that they work together on projects, have been dining out and "dating", been physical. etc Because lets face it Joy, all you know are snippets from Facebook, but this is possibly just the top of the iceberg.
As for the "what would you said if I kissed you yesterday", could be more sinister than it sounds, if her husband was actually in the vicinity. Rather than an indication that they have not been physical, it could allude to something else. Just hypothesizing her, but it is odd that there is this reaction to you merely talking to her, unless she spoke to her husband believing you knew more. Just a though.

SocFish Thu 28-Mar-13 07:50:12

I do have sympathy for Joy. absolutely.

The relationship is clearly shit. On both parts.

HE has disconnected? What about her?

We know nothing, except that he has been a total and utter dickhead. I'm certainly not defending him. He sounds like a prize dick, but I'm not convinced by the total innocence of Joy either.

JoySchtick Thu 28-Mar-13 07:53:42

I am trying to be calm although v v sad.

i know things are bad. I need to look after myself.

SocFish Thu 28-Mar-13 07:58:33

Joy. Get some RL help. Move on. This will never work. I'm very sorry. It's hell, but you cannot consider anything other than leaving. It's not working for either of you.

Xales Thu 28-Mar-13 08:08:13

Have you read the whole thread where he has had private passwords for over a year while Joy was made to feel bad for asking for one?

There has been a power imbalance in their relationship for at least that long.

If you are not sure of her innocence leave her thread to those of us who think he is a controlling man which as probably been messing around a lot of that time he was protected and which caused OP to disconnect.

I do agree the marriage is done for. All blame is being laid at Joys door for her 'unreasonable' actions!

AgathaF Thu 28-Mar-13 08:13:04

Glad you are ok-ish.

SocFish Thu 28-Mar-13 08:14:38

I'm not blaming anyone!

Where was the bit that he had been messaging for a year? I thought they had only just recently reconnected.

He's not a controlling man at all. Don't give him that ridiculous description when it's not worthy at all. He's a stupid, unfaithful, pathetic creature.

Chubfuddler Thu 28-Mar-13 08:27:24

I don't think you've read the thread properly. He's allowed a secret password for the family PC but she isn't. Sounds controlling to me. The stuff about "his" car being "stolen". More controlling bullshit.

Midwife99 Thu 28-Mar-13 08:31:36

Just delurked to say I have read the whole post & am thinking of you. You've been so strong & calm. Well done you! He must be squirming! I think he'll find sending sexually explicit messages to other women IS wrong & would count as unreasonable behaviour in a divorce petition! Idiot!

MistyKnight Thu 28-Mar-13 08:32:14

Joy - de lurking to wish you bravery and gumption in what will undoubtably be a horrid few days. My exh announced his departure and denied that adultery was the reason. I found all the proof of an emotional and physical affair retrospectively a few weeks later and never had the opportunity to confront him about it, as by that stage everything was going through solicitors. Drafted love letters, filthy Internet history, notes from his career coach about making plans for divorce and new life, he even googled "why do I love (OW's name)". It all suddenly made sense.

Stay strong, stay calm and whatever you do, maintain the moral high ground so that you can't be painted as the villain. Gather any further proof you can and keep records of what he says and does. It will help tremendously if and when you find yourself needing to retell the story to a solicitor.

BOEUF Thu 28-Mar-13 08:32:37

Yy, get some real life help now. Solicitor etc. MN can only be a sounding board, not a lifeline. You found a bright resourceful person: go and sort this out. You can report back if you want to, but you don't owe anybody an update- it's not a soap opera. Good luck.

SocFish Thu 28-Mar-13 08:34:59

Oh Jesus Christ. maybe he is controlling. I'm not convinced at all. This is not a situation of domestic violence or control or EA or any such stuff. Joy is perfectly in control and a perfectly strong woman. Let's not all jump on the band wagon of portraying her as yet another hard done by woman when no such label is necessary.

They've been married for a mere two years and no children involved.

She sounds sane, strong and intelligent. Joy should just leave. I'm unconvinced by all this 'drama'.

SocFish Thu 28-Mar-13 08:36:00

and totally unconvinced by the "extra" drama created by MN here.

Though I fucking LOVE mumsnet.

Portofino Thu 28-Mar-13 08:39:07

God, he is unbelievable! What a complete twunt.

Xales Thu 28-Mar-13 09:00:04

You don't think a man who make you feel unreasonable for wanting a password when it is fine for him to have one is controlling? Or a man who sends his wife a text saying have got my car or I am reporting it to the police when she has left him a note is controlling?

Maybe it is not as bad as some others are going through. It is still a subtle put down and letting her know who is boss.

Jengnr Thu 28-Mar-13 09:04:20

Hi Amanda, I mean SocFish!

SocFish Thu 28-Mar-13 09:05:03

She never said he had control over the password.

There's not "controlling" there unless Joy comes back and clarifies. My husband has total control over the passwords because he's and IT guru and does everything IT related for which I'm very grateful.

SocFish Thu 28-Mar-13 09:05:59

there's "NO" I mean

Jengnr Thu 28-Mar-13 09:06:20

It seems to me that he cares more about OW's feelings than Joy's but she cares more about her marriage than she does about him. I think he might find himself out in the cold very soon.

Shame.

Good luck Joy, you're doing brilliantly. Xx

Midwife99 Thu 28-Mar-13 09:14:50

I disagree with everything you say Socfish - OP wanted to be able to change her password or also have access to his. He refused. He kept a secret password but was able to access & more importantly change hers whenever he wished controlling her Internet access but keeping his a secret.
When she tried to leave after he became threatening he grabbed her & broke her bag strap. He must have pulled pretty hard to manage to pull apart stitched leather.
Who cares whether it's only been 2 years or whether there are children? They are supposed to be in a committed relationship & it is not ok to send other women sexually explicit messages or arrange to meet up with them. The posters in this thread are not creating drama, in fact the reverse. They have helped OP stay calm, consider her actions carefully & not panic.

sarahjaye Thu 28-Mar-13 09:18:31

SocFish, if you read the thread you'll find Joy explained about the password business...

"He put password protection on the computer sometime last year - it was when we got a new computer and we all, including DCs, got our own log ins.

DH is admin on the computer and he set the password on my account, so he can see my stuff if he should want to and I can't see his. When I asked if I could set my own password, because if he can have privacy then so can I, he said no."

BOEUF Thu 28-Mar-13 09:21:50

So are there children involved, or aren't there? confused

Xales Thu 28-Mar-13 09:26:21

He has complete control the passwords hmm how did you miss that or are you deliberately saying this?

Wow, I can't believe the audacity of the man! Well, actually I can but only because he's like so many others angry

Like someone else up thread said - you haven't actually contacted OW's DH so what the fuck is he talking about?

They are the ones that have 'potentially done irreparable damage to several innocent parties'

'This incident was an innocent exchange between 2 people who have a lot of issues in their lives and who engaged in harmless escapism. WTF? Harmless to whom?

Her values meant she could never hurt her family and my values mean infidelity is never an option. You by your actions have crossed that line, with no consideration for XXs children or husband. This makes me really angry - blaming you for any potential hurt etc that THEY have caused. Wanker. And don't even start on her values

My DH is a total twunt but I don't think even he would try totally reversing a situation like this & blaming me to this extent.

Get out, fast. There is no way to move past this. He's a ...words actually fail me angry

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Thu 28-Mar-13 09:40:20

Okay it is helpful to have another point of view as expressed by SocFish because if one person can read this thread and still think there must be more to it, others might as well.

Personally I accept what the OP tells us and think her H has tried and failed to spice up his life with some tawdry bit on the side. Now it's all come crashing round his head he won't admit to anything and attempts to brazen it all out.

DorisIsWaiting Thu 28-Mar-13 09:45:27

Hi Joy

I have been following your thread for a few days, and I have to say you have been so dignified and composed despite the amount of shit he is sending your way.

Everything he text last night is deflection , he doesn't want anything to stick on him - he's trying to be teflon man.

You have warned off the OW and they are running scared. If there was nothing wrong with the relationship (that until yesterday he denied all existence of) then there will be no problem in OWH knowing!

Keep on keeping on you will get through it.

JoySchtick Thu 28-Mar-13 09:58:41

Emerged from H that OW has not told her DH. She had been crying and stayed out drinking with a friend because she was scared I might have told her DH and she didn’t want to go home.
30 mins after I called OW, she called my H. Three hours later he started going on at me.
He said that he would report me to my professional organisation for breaking data protection laws. He would call the police and get a restraining order against me to stop me calling OW.

Previous relationship problems aside, I have enough on my plate now.

Angelico Thu 28-Mar-13 09:59:41

Sorry it's come to this. He's a twat. Don't see any comeback from this really, not after the way he has reacted. Keep yourself safe - you're doing really well. Agree with what others have said - try and maintain the moral high ground. Tell yourself like a mantra - 'I have done nothing wrong.' He is an utter cunt if he thinks he has done nothing but harmless escapism. It harmed you his wife. I actually think he honestly hasn't seen that yet. Maybe you could spell it out for the emotional fuckwit.

Midwife99 Thu 28-Mar-13 10:02:21

He's deluded!!! Unbelievable denial of the facts!!

Angelico Thu 28-Mar-13 10:03:32

X-posted. He is talking shit. You haven't broken any laws. As for the OW - the soft side of me feels a bit sorry for her but the avenging angel side thinks - Good! These are the consequences of your actions! Live with them! He also can't take out a restraining order but I think you know that.

This is a man who isn't as clever and together as he likes to portray and who is shitting himself in the face of your strength of character. Think it's time he heard a few home truths. You've been a model of restraint so far. Just try and tell him calmly why he is so deeply out of order.

Angelico Thu 28-Mar-13 10:05:12

Actually if this wasn't your actual life I would PMSL at the idea of him going to the police. 'Help! My wife wants to tell my OW's DH what we got up to. You can't let her! I'll get into twouble!!! Can't you tell her she's in twouble, not me???' Quivering lip...

Jengnr Thu 28-Mar-13 10:06:14

He doesn't seem to care much about you does he?

Run for the hills!

onefewernow Thu 28-Mar-13 10:09:22

Your prof body would just laugh. I've worked with heaps of them.

He wouldn't so it anyway. He's trying to intimidate you. He is far too arrogant to make such a prat of himself with your prof body.

Cares about her feeling a lot doesn't he? Quite the white knight on his charger.

Midwife99 Thu 28-Mar-13 10:10:26

Poor poor twunt & his innocent lady friend! Naughty Joy harassing them like that!! angry

ChasedByBees Thu 28-Mar-13 10:11:50

Data protection laws and the police. Sorry but grin I would have laughed in his face. He is grasping at straws.

More sobering though is he doesn't care about your feelings here.

ladyjadie Thu 28-Mar-13 10:12:56

I think he's got some serious shit in his eyes if he thinks he can try to make you feel bad for this other idiot woman yet has no capacity to feel bad for hurting his hero of a wife.

It looks like your dignity in how you've dealt with this is going to go unnoticed by him, overshadowed by her crying, snivveling and drinking childish attention seeking . And SHE was part of the problem!

That must have killed any dribbles of remaining respect you may (probably didn't) have, that he seems to have sided against you, his WIFE, for the bit of fluff.

He sure knows how to pick out the bits of 'strong values' he likes from his religion eh hmm

EverybodysSootyEyed Thu 28-Mar-13 10:15:45

I don't know what your prof body is but mine would ask him why he was wasting his time.

The fact that he cares more about the impact on her in this situation shows that this was way more than just escapism. It is clearly an emotional affair and it having had the chance to make it physical doesn't make it right.

I don't think you need to tell the ow husband - she must be feeling like shit as she just doesn't know what's going to happen. If she were sensible she would get in first but ultimately they both know it is something they needed to hide for a reason.

I think you need to put your tenants on notice and sort out leaving. You are so much better than all of this.

thistlelicker Thu 28-Mar-13 10:18:34

If this was as simple as Dh is making out, a mere joke as he called it, why such the heavy reaction from him? Ow didn't care
Much for her
Values when she also participated in extra marital messages !! They got caught. They want cake and crumbs!! I must say op 10/10 for u for the way u have handled the whole situation! In sure it's very easy to get caught up in anger and hatred! It's sad to see that Dh is more keen to protect ow and her family than salvage his marriage! That to me speaks volume! He has no respect for u or your marriage vows! Perhaps it was meant as a joke and escapism but clearly something's developed for such reaction from him!!!

Keep going op! Your heart will guide u! X

I think you know all you need to know now - his main concern is protecting himself & OW.

Can you get away this weekend? I hate to think you being there with him over the long BH weekend. Apologies if you've covered this already.

Then see a solicitor early next week to establish your rights.

You are amazingly strong & can do this

AgathaF Thu 28-Mar-13 10:19:34

A restraining order? On the basis of one phone call. Just a phone call to the police to set it up. His ignorance know no bounds.

I hope you're ok. From everything you have said, I think the best thing for you would be to walk away from this situation and relationship. Knowing that the fault is with him, knowing that he ruined your marriage, knowing that you have done nothing wrong. He has shown where his loyalty lies.

Ponyinthepool Thu 28-Mar-13 10:20:06

Two very telling words in that ridiculously patronising text message:

'Selfishness' - how dare you stand up for yourself
'Harmless' - the harm he has caused you doesn't count

Plus the fact he lied when confronted and didn't come home immediately to grovel. There are lot of signs that he fundamentally sees you as subordinate - the tone of all of his messages is utterly belittling and entitled. He is expecting subservience even now.

What a piece of shit. Strength to you, OP.

Loulybelle Thu 28-Mar-13 10:22:02

Omg!!!!!! This man is shitting himself big style, police, they'd piss themselves laughing, i think this man is on edge big time.

fraggletits Thu 28-Mar-13 10:26:07

Yes second getting away over the bank holiday - you don't want to be stuck there with him for 4 days, what the hell else is he going to try and pin on you? Horrible bastard - leave, stay with friends or a hotel and see a solicitor next week x

SuzySuzSuz Thu 28-Mar-13 10:29:14

Oh Joy, you're doing really well and keep your chin up.

He's like a toddler throwing his toys out the pram isn't he?! The police would laugh at his request for a restraining order, there simply are no grounds. Any professional bodies would not want to enter into this discussion, and how would he even evidence you breaking the data protection act?' "Yes here are all the Facebook messages to my OW which  Joy must have accessed to discover what was going on"..... oh please!

OW has shat a brick as you've put a mirror up to what they were doing and she's seen it for the sordid, seedy EA it was, also she's probably now worried, a little too late, on what she stands to lose with her own family.

Your DH has not once admitted any wrong doing, not apologised, tried to turn every morsel back around to being your fault and his behaviours show he is more concerned with the OW even now. I imagine some concern may be for himself in case OW's husband finds out.

I hope being at work today is giving you some distraction and a little time to think about what YOU want to do next.

Well they are both behaving as if they are GUILTY. Why would they be so afraid and angry if absolutely nothing untoward were going on? He has obviously decided that the best form of defence is attack!

He is now threatening you.

He really shouldn't mess with you like this or it might tip you over into feeling that you simply have to tell her husband.

Little fucker, got caught out and doesn't like it that his wife is unafraid to stand up for herself. OW's marriage and her children are her responsibility and if she wants to play fast and loose with that, then that is her own affair.

Think she is learning a lesson though.

Bloody well done Joy! grin

IslandMoose Thu 28-Mar-13 11:04:49

Sorry to be dull, but do be a little careful if you consider contacting OW again. Harassment is, actually, a criminal offence if it might cause distress or alarm (see section 2 of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997).

Best of luck with the situation in general, though.

Xales Thu 28-Mar-13 11:08:11

Stay calm and don't reply just like all the other times.

Can you get away to friends or family for the weekend.

And start looking for a place to live until you can get your flat back.

You will get through this. /hugs

TheSmallPrint Thu 28-Mar-13 11:08:21

Joy, your DH is deluding himself into thinking he has done nothing wrong but he absolutely has. If the tables were turned what would he do?

Good luck, I hope you get some peace and calm this weekend.

And don't take anymore shit from him. thanks

Lessthanaballpark Thu 28-Mar-13 11:12:38

Just delurking to wish you well and enthuse at how strong you're being OP.

His anger and gaslighting is just a drowning man's attempt to deflect the blame onto you. Don't listen to any of it. You've done nothing wrong and have handled things with dignity and grace.

What I hate the most about his reaction is that he doesn't seem the least bit concerned about how you feel in this. Just him and the OW.

Stay strong!

Good luck and stay safe Joy.

For "innocent" people they are sure very nervous.

eatmydust Thu 28-Mar-13 11:24:28

Just wanted to say I am thinking of you Joy.

They both sound fucking unbelievable. You have been so strong.

ProphetOfDoom Thu 28-Mar-13 11:29:01

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

eccentrica Thu 28-Mar-13 11:30:13

So sorry he's such a stupid, bullying bastard. You've done nothing wrong. You are a model of strength and restraint. If possible, don't listen to anything he says. Keep on ignoring. He's talking shit.
So sorry this has all happened. Hang in there.

Angelico Thu 28-Mar-13 11:53:18

You know my pity for her is growing slightly, simply because he is being such a twunt and therefore making you angry. And since he seems to have a rhino hide the obvious target of your vengeance is the OW. In your shoes if my 'D'H was behaving like this I would be so angry at him that my anger would overspill onto her and I would be telling her DH just to drop the bomb so to speak. But that's just me blush

QuintEggSensuality Thu 28-Mar-13 11:58:24

And at no point has this stupid man considered that this would not have happened if he was not exchanging virtual juices with another mans wife. And further, had he taken his own wife's concerns seriously rather than laugh and deny, the outcome would have been very different.

Joy, you need legal advice. This man is on self destruct and Joy destruct too.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Thu 28-Mar-13 12:06:44

From yesterday, OP at 19:58:17
I thought she looked like a laugh and that she looked like she might be an MNer

If she is and is reading this, I hope she's squirming.

H under-estimated you didn't he Joy? What a chump.

Keep safe and get legal advice.

They've put you under massive stress Joy, at the moment a mix of anger, upset and chocolate and pistachio muffins adrenaline is keeping you going, take care of yourself.

caughtinagiggleloop Thu 28-Mar-13 12:17:37

As another lurker, I wanted to say how amazingly calm and dignified you are being. What an utter fool you are married to. I hope you manage to find somewhere to stay over the Easter weekend and I hope he realises what he's done and what he's lost.

Much as I don't condone her behaviour, I also hope OW sorts her life out too and doesn't get sucked into any long-term relationship with him as it's unlikely he'll treat her with any respect once the frisson of an affair is gone.

He's a totally selfish and arrogant man with no consideration for anyone but himself. It's unlikely he does care more about OW than you. Probably more scared what would happen to him if her H found out.

HollaAtMeBaby Thu 28-Mar-13 12:31:13

You have handled this very well. I can't see why you are still there though. You will not get past this and it isn't worth trying to: it's a short marriage and you have no children with him. As it's his house, I think it's time to LTB. How soon could you get back into your own property - do you have to give notice to tenants? Is there anyone you could stay with in the meantime?

LiveItUp Thu 28-Mar-13 12:31:49

"She stayed out drinking with a friend" ... was that friend him, perchance?!!

Have been supporting you in the background since you first posted and you're doing so well. He's a total idiot. Take care.

something2say Thu 28-Mar-13 13:00:02

My advice to you now Joy would be this -

He can't cause any legal harm to you for a start, so don't worry about that xx There are no grounds for a restraining order or non-molestation order at all. He is trying to scare you.

It does very sadly seem though, that the mariage may have come to an end. Are you thinking the same way?

Are you thinking to live with him while you divorce / get your flat back or will you go elsewhere?

I would advise you to go away this weekend, even if it is just to an hotel, so you can lie around and cry and watch TV rather that put a brave face on - or otherwise, stick a brabve face on and go out with friends.

It may be that you live elsewhere for a month or so and then go back and live in a separate room from him while the divorce goes through.

Have you considered sitting down with him and agreeing that it is now over because of his behaviour and resulting attitude and agreeing a plan or is it too soon? I reckon too soon, hence get away for a while ...or you could at leats tell him you are going and why and that it is over.

But I feel for you xxxx I wonder also about paying fr someone to talk to because this must be an almighty shock for you. One day fine, the next day this. Even if there were rumbles. xxx

BicBiro Thu 28-Mar-13 13:03:32

god, what a twat. I almost think you should go and tell the OW's husband now, just to call his bluff and show him you are not afraid of his silly little threats.

what a horrible man. yuk. I don't know how you can bear to even look at him any more.

onefewernow Thu 28-Mar-13 13:38:43

Joy, Im sure you cant think straight at the moment, this has all happened so fast.

Truly, although the original offense is not one which causes divorce in many households (my was far worse, all online too), I afraid you have learned through this that you have a much bigger problem with him.

He has demonstrated an almost pathological resilience to hearing any fault, he has minimised what he does admit, he has protected himself and OW over you, he has made you the villain, he has nearly physically hurt you and frightened you, he has controlled you, threatened twice in a few days to call the police, threatened your work security re calling your professional body, and more.

Not only has he not admitted all that you saw yourself with your own eyes.

This is who he is.

ProphetOfDoom Thu 28-Mar-13 13:38:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

onefewernow Thu 28-Mar-13 13:39:20

my h, not me!

pausingforbreath Thu 28-Mar-13 14:10:57

Joy,
I am also de lurking.
Can I just you are amazing ; your husband on the other hand is not.

After reading the whole thread and being a cynic , the text he sent you reads like he is writing it not from the heart ; but to minimise what has been happening and show how he and her have standards, and they are innocents having escapism but nothing damaging for anyone else. Maybe, he is expecting you to show this text to OW's husband and he wants him to know how much ' integrity' he has.
Academic really, he should of sent a text to you saying sorry for the disrespect he has shown you his wife, not trying to make you out as the villain of the piece and asking you to consider her and her family set up.
The truth is, that was her responsibility when she chose to have the online flirtation with your husband. Hers and his responsibilty,when it could affect others close to them when they found out.
To pretend otherwise and blame you for rocking the boat is disillusioned and cowardly. If she and he are worried now about it being revealed to families, they know it was wrong and not just innocent fantasy. But then they chose to do it anyway.

Just so you know, I'm also suburban/commuter London.........

Power to you Joy, keep on being amazing.
Sorry he is putting you through it.

carabossse Thu 28-Mar-13 14:31:17

Hello Joy,

I'm also de-lurking.

You must be feeling a sea of changing emotions or be numb at the moment. It's a difficult time to keep a clear head.

I've read your thread from the start and am sorry to heart the latest news. I can guess your H can be very charming and his self-image is very important to him. He is being extraordinarily hypocritical at the moment and some of the things he's doing could indicate narcissistic tendencies.

Anyway, it's good you have this outlet, I hope you also have someone in real life to talk to. Your H could argue black is white couldn't he?
Last weekend he ignored your concerns which were serious enough for you to take off on a spontaneous trip.
He ignored your concerns until his "friend" was aware of your knowledge of their messages.
His wife is making a big deal of nothing, however we must not let her husband find out.
In fact OW is distraught at the thought of her H finding out.
No doubt OW has been clear that this must stop.
H blames you for ending his fun.
H is not happy at not being in control-wife acts on her own accord, ditto OW who ends it.
He is not the decision-maker.
OW needs to be protected.
Wife needs to be punished (I agree with pp that you've nothing to worry about, apart from anything else they want to keep it all a secret so OW is hardly keen to make a statement about your phone call.)

I could go on but he's just so hypocritical, it must be difficult to accept this is the man you married. From just reading here he sounds like such a cliche. You however have come out of this with your dignity intact.

I hope you can get some legal advice to help you to decide on the next steps, and that you can move ahead in your own timescale.

MTBMummy Thu 28-Mar-13 15:01:50

Just my thoughts - feel free to ignore them...

Emerged from H that OW has not told her DH. She had been crying and stayed out drinking with a friend because she was scared I might have told her DH and she didn’t want to go home. So if she had nothing to hide why would she be so worried?

30 mins after I called OW, she called my H. Three hours later he started going on at me. Nice to know that he'd rather protect this woman than his own wife - I think he's shown where his priorities lie

He said that he would report me to my professional organisation for breaking data protection laws. As an information Secuity Professional - he's talking out of his arse!

He would call the police and get a restraining order against me to stop me calling OW. Sorry but the guy is a nut job trying to bully and scare you - don't let him, he doesn't have a leg to stand on

mathanxiety Thu 28-Mar-13 15:03:37

Joy, while his threats are completely ridiculous, the fact that he is making them is not one bit ok.

This is a nasty piece of work you are dealing with and I urge you to draw a line under the relationship and move on. One day you will look back and see your discoveries, both of the OW and his reaction to your discovery, as blessings in disguise.

It hurts like heck to be betrayed. The shock can paralyse you. Grieving the relationship, and all the 'might have beens', is painful. However, I think you should see this whole incident as a lifeline thrown to you and face all the pain and grief that is to come. And in time I think you will.

It is preferable by far to do this than to try to make a life with a man whose response to you over the last few days has been anger, threats, blame, selfishness, a massive display of entitlement for himself and contempt for you and your intelligence, and violent gestures.

mathanxiety Thu 28-Mar-13 15:08:29

Move on without closure or any acknowledgement of wrongdoing from him. Stop looking for truth.

The 'working truth' is that he has treated you with contempt and continues to do so, blatantly and without batting an eyelid. By 'working truth' I mean the essential facts that you need to base your decisions on.

Listen closely when people tell you who they are. He is telling you who he is.

Do not linger and allow yourself to be hurt even more by him.

mathanxiety Thu 28-Mar-13 15:12:07

Onefewernow

'Truly, although the original offense is not one which causes divorce in many households (my was far worse, all online too), I afraid you have learned through this that you have a much bigger problem with him.

He has demonstrated an almost pathological resilience to hearing any fault, he has minimised what he does admit, he has protected himself and OW over you, he has made you the villain, he has nearly physically hurt you and frightened you, he has controlled you, threatened twice in a few days to call the police, threatened your work security re calling your professional body, and more.

Not only has he not admitted all that you saw yourself with your own eyes.

This is who he is.'

YES, this is the situation in a nutshell.

Dear Husband,
As you have now threatened me with going to the police to get a restraining order, I feel I have no choice but to inform Mr.OW about what has been going on, if only to protect myself. Below is the email I am sending to Mr.OW

Dear Mr.OW,
I feel it incumbent upon me to give you this information as it seems unfair that everyone involved has this knowledge apart from you. It would seem that my H and your W have been conducting some kind of internet based flirtation/affair. He has been giving her advice as to how to cover her tracks so you can't see what she has been up to. Now that these two think they know what I have discovered, they are claiming that all is innocent and no wrong-doings have occurred. I have taken screen shots of the messages between them, but they still continue to deny.
I have spoken to your W and told her I think it only fair you should know what is going on. Unfortunately this has caused her great fear and distress and has caused my H to start making threats against me. I feel that their reaction tells us all we need to know.
Yours sincerely, Joy

If, Husband, you fail to admit what you have done, apologise profusely and then apologise again for the way you have reacted since my discovery, within ten minutes of receiving this email, I will have no hesitation in pushing the send button

The end.

grin

mathanxiety Thu 28-Mar-13 16:03:07

A deliciously satisfying thought there, but I sincerely hope Joy won't get sucked into game playing and will just make solid plans to move on with her own life, leaving her H and his OW to enjoy their harmless fantasy together.

And I bet it won't be half as much fun for him when he's not going behind anyone's back.

Yes, I agree Math. Was getting carried away on a tide of annoyance directed at Joy's godawful H and his attempts to bully her. I should have made it clear that I was joking and not really suggesting she send these.

Joy my previous post was not meant to be taken as proper advice, just a gut reaction from me and best taken with a pinch of salt.

LondonNinja Thu 28-Mar-13 16:27:37

Fucking hell, Joy. He's fucking NUTS.

Cheeky bloody bastard.

How are you doing?

LondonNinja Thu 28-Mar-13 16:28:21

Oh, and if it's so harmless, let's bring OW's DH into it, shall we?!

JoySchtick Thu 28-Mar-13 16:40:54

Thank you all so much.

When I saw that this thread had grown to however many pages I though, 'gosh my life must be really, really bad'.

There is too much that H has said and or done for me to put everything, but none of it is positive. sad sad sad

You have all helped so much. I can't even begin to tell you.

LAST NIGHT

H came home last night and ranted on so loudly that my ears were ringing by the end of it. That is absolutely, literally true. (to be fair I do have tinnitus a bit anyway).

He repeated that I was being selfish, that I could not mess about when children were involved, ruining innocent lives - same sort of thing as in his text.

He really made a big play of the whole children part and how people who have children have responsibilities which can't be messed with. He kept saying do you know what you've done.

He was shouting, banging the dressing table and blocking the doorway and looking v fierce.

He said he would have to get a restraining order and could I assure him that I wouldn't be making any more phone calls. That there was a woman terrified and crying because of what I had done. (there was a woman terrified and crying inside me because of what he had done, but only I care about her)

He explained at length about professional codes of conduct and the data protection act and said he would report me for breaking it.

OW and H were clearly v scared about how I had got hold of her number. He kept saying that even he didn't have it (but he has her mobile number for sure).

At first I thought OW had told her H but it transpired that was not the case.

I said that I had got the number out of the phone book.

Reading between the lines the two of them have worked themselves up into a right old paranoia about just how far my tentacles extend. (they are long)

H's very clear aim was to stop me contacting OW again. He was very keen to call in the authorities (as clearly I am running amok and creating public disorder).

He kept trying to bring it back to our marriage and trying to talk about problems there rather than what he has been up to.

On reflection the things he said seemed to have been quite thoroughly thought through in advance.

Midwife99 Thu 28-Mar-13 16:44:38

But you don't believe any of it do you? It's all ridiculous!!!

Teeb Thu 28-Mar-13 16:46:32

What do you want to happen now Joy? He's shown himself up for the arse that he is, so focus on you now.

LondonNinja Thu 28-Mar-13 16:48:28

You sound so lovely – I know it sounds weird as this ain't RL smile but you come across as having a cracking sense of wry humour and a maturity that puts that weasel 'D'H to shame.

He is minimising and terrified and doing everything possible to fuck play with your head.

Don't play.

As said upthread, get some legal advice, give notice on your flat and start planning your future away from this person. I get the impression you were hoping his reaction would prove there was a way forward for the marriage but his actions speak clearly of him not giving a flying fanjita about you, Joy.

JoySchtick Thu 28-Mar-13 16:52:29

And at no point has this stupid man considered that this would not have happened if he was not exchanging virtual juices with another mans wife. And further, had he taken his own wife's concerns seriously rather than laugh and deny, the outcome would have been very different.

I did make this point to him.

He said my phone call to OW had been so destructive (or sthg like that, can't remember exact word).

I asked him if the emails hadn't existed what would the phone call have done? And I said it is for H and OW to take responsibility for what their actions have done.

He didn't answer and started saying I was unbelievably arrogant.

He contradicts, ignores and hijacks every point, phrase and word. So I am very proud of having actually managed to make that point.

Another one de-lurking here.

Joy, I think you just have to hold your head up high, make temporary accommodation arrangements whilst your tenants vacate your property. He will NOT admit to anything and will continue this nonsense where you are to blame for everything, you don't need to be in the firing line for that. Maybe find a short term let and pay for it up front from a joint bank account (if you have one)?

Best of luck.

LondonNinja Thu 28-Mar-13 16:55:58

WTAF?

He does not care a jot about your place in this. He has turned you into the villain of the piece. He has taken gaslighting to a high level, IMO.

Does he think you and he have a future?!

EggyFucker Thu 28-Mar-13 16:56:35

What now, Joy ?

What an utter wanker.

Please, please get out as soon as you can this weekend. Do you have anywhere to go at all?

He is such a selfish fucker and I can't believe how little regard he is showing for you now that he's been caught out.

He's clearly scared of OWs DH finding out - is there more to that do you think?

Does he work with OW and could this involvement with her have implications for his/her career?

Wow, just wow at his ranting at you.

Take care and please put some distance between you ASAP

onefewernow Thu 28-Mar-13 16:59:17

Lets analyse his perspective:

"Joy is a child and I will bloody well need to teach her

Shit, OW's H may be even harder to manipulate, and not at all compliant, and he may be bigger than me

And this is all going to ruin my fun

That girl needs taking in hand and made to stop. Now, what ideas do I have in my superior brain to ensure that happens?"

So Joy, sadly you take the prize for having an H who has ticked even more twunt boxes than the rest of us.

There are no tricks, ploys, or game plans to sort him out.

So sorry.

So what are you going to do??

DragonMamma Thu 28-Mar-13 17:02:48

I'm actually sat here agog at his front.

I can't even put in to words what an arrogant prick he sounds. Turning it on you and threatening you with the authorities.

JoySchtick Thu 28-Mar-13 17:03:46

This morning I told him that it shocked me how little he cared for me. And that if I were him I'd be ashamed. That was a patronising thing to say but still.

He got himself worked up again, said how could I bear to be such a horrible person and did I want to end up alone with no friends.

I asked him what he thought of his own behaviour. H said that we were both horrible people.

I said ok then H say, "I am a liar, a cheat and a bully". He said he was none of those things. shock shock shock.

I'm not shocked he wouldn't say it, I am completely shocked at his level of denial. Who knew it was even possible.

I'm really sorry for going on but I just really need to rant.

(I guess resisting getting drawn into his ???***__@@@%%????!!! er, stuff, is pretty draining and I need to let it out somewhere. Sorry again. flowers)

mathanxiety Thu 28-Mar-13 17:06:02

Every accusation he levels at you is actually things he has done himself. Pure projection in other words. That is narcissism.

Joy, there is no hope of a relationship with someone like this ever getting anywhere.

Your role in this relationship now is to be the person who gets accused of every bad thing he does. He doesn't see a boundary between you and him and there is no respect for you whatsoever. He is not capable of seeing you as a real person with feelings, or rights. You saw this before with his high handedness about the computer password.

You are like his evil twin now. You are not Joy, the woman he once told he loved and whom he married. He has an idea of himself (Catholic, moral values-man) that does not stand up to reality but he insists it is true, and he is completely incapable of seeing his own actions for what they are.

Staying in hopes of him accepting responsibility and apologising will drive you crazy. Really, really crazy.

Xales Thu 28-Mar-13 17:06:28

What a twat. How can he get a restraining order to stop his wife contacting another man's wife hmm The other woman could try but I don't think that there is diddly squat that they will do based on ONE phone call as one phone call is not harassment. I would also like to see her explaining that one to her H. If you do decide to contact her H then one phone call to him is also not harassment.

He is trying to scare you down as you have the power to contact the other H and she is shitting bricks. If she hadn't been virtually messing with your H there would be nothing to sorry her. At least she had the decency to refuse to meet your H unlike him chasing her like a dog in heat.

You have your answer as to what your H thinks of you. Sorry it is not good, he didn't come clean and your marriage is over. I know it isn't what you wanted.

Be kind to yourself. /hugs

miriam82 Thu 28-Mar-13 17:07:16

Oh my gosh, you have been really.
I hope you are recording everything he says to you too. Wouldn't it be helpful later after so much stress he had put you into?
Just a thought
Hugs for you

miriam82 Thu 28-Mar-13 17:07:35

I meant you have been really good and patient

JoySchtick Thu 28-Mar-13 17:07:56

When I left for work this morning I noticed that his keys were in the front door Yale-type lock on the inside. I had to turn them to leave. We never do this, ever.

Last night I insisted on being near the door when 'talking' so I could escape if needed.

I accused him of locking me in the house. H said he had thought that I wasn't home last night when he got back.

Later the penny dropped that if I had been out and got home later than him then I wouldn't have been able to open the door to get in. angry

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Thu 28-Mar-13 17:08:38

Practically assaulting you as you tried to leave the other night was nothing to be proud of. I bet you could still log that with the police on their non-emergency number.

I personally wouldn't contact the OW again, no need. I'd tell H if he ever laid another finger on me or got into my face shouting at me, I'd phone her H and let him make his mind up how innocent it all waa AND name her in divorcing him for adultery. Disclaimer: I don't even know if the latter is achievable.

I was also going to call him a narcissistic personality; its all projection with him.

This is dead in the water, you know this deep down.

Your only real option is to divorce him and rebuild your life from that point onwards. Staying with him will destroy you ultimately.

MidnightMasquerader Thu 28-Mar-13 17:09:12

So where to from here, Joy?

JoySchtick Thu 28-Mar-13 17:09:13

I asked H, by text, if he had tried to lock me out. He said no and that it would have been a stupid escalation of the situation.

I replied that I was glad he would not do such a thing.

Joy

Forget him for a moment. What about you in all this and what are you going to do re him?.

Xales Thu 28-Mar-13 17:11:30

It has already escalated beyond stupidity. His stupidity. Of course he would have locked you out.

You don't actually believe that in the face of everything else do you?

Shellington Thu 28-Mar-13 17:13:09

Argh - what a fucker.
The shouting, physical intimidation, actually rough-handling you, the "why why why" bollocks - just ARGH! What an immature, cuntish cunt.
Protecting his little fantasy woman along the way hmm what a hero.

Sorry <unhelpful>

Can you log his behaviour with the police? Get advice from 101 if needs be? It seems to be escalating, fast.

Again this is about power and control. He won't be happy till he destroys you altogether.

I do not believe any of his protestations. He fully intended to lock you out of the house, it was a further act of spite, control and hate against you.

Shellington Thu 28-Mar-13 17:15:00

"such a horrible person and did I want to end up alone with no friends."

Argh ARGH again!
<implodes>

JoySchtick Thu 28-Mar-13 17:18:43

Xales nope I don't particularly believe it. Just hoping to make my life a little easier, short term.

I do clearly understand what all of this means. I hope I do anyway. It's not nice, i'm so, so sad. I don't want to say or type the words just yet.

Those who have said that I am running on adrenaline and in an emotional spin are right. For now I need to regroup my resources, physically and emotionally and mentally.

I so wish that it wasn't this way but it is.

In the next few days am going to go somewhere where people care for me. Which so clearly is not the case here. sad

MidnightMasquerader Thu 28-Mar-13 17:20:04

(((hug)))

fraggletits Thu 28-Mar-13 17:22:15

God Joy please for the sake of self repect stop communicating with him, get your stuff and go. I have never heard such low level disrespect. He clearly doesn't want you around, the fact too that he is protecting this other woman would just kill me, I would need to just get my things, get the hell away from him as he is a fucking freak show, lick my wounds somewhere and move on. Communication with this piece of shit just seems at best utterly futile, at worst damaging and mind bending for you - you really need to get away - so sorry lovey sad

onefewernow Thu 28-Mar-13 17:25:46

Good idea. Great idea.

Get the Lundy Bancroft book or one on make control, to really galvanise your thinking.

He shows not ONE sign of capability of change.

Please check with the police or a lawyer your legal situation re the house. If he locks you out he is probably breaking the law. Mind you, i would go anyway!

JoySchtick Thu 28-Mar-13 17:27:08

Today on a well known social media site a......let's call her a friend of a friend....posted two 'inspiring' quotes which were along these lines.

Quote a: "Never underestimate someone else's pain because some people are just better at hiding it"

Quote b: "Nowadays people often say 'I'm offended' as if that gives them certain rights, actually it's just whining. It has no meaning, no reason, no purpose."

Joy is taking the highest flipping road she can find.

JoySchtick Thu 28-Mar-13 17:28:49

Quote b: "Nowadays people often say 'I'm offended' as if that gives them certain rights, actually it's just whining. It has no meaning, no reason, no purpose. No reason to be respected."

something2say Thu 28-Mar-13 17:29:58

Bloody hell Joy, did he seriously think you would accept that he should be allowed to,have this affair and you say nothing about it? And the fallout fault is yours??????

So sorry lovely xx get to where you are loved and eat chocolate xxx

JoySchtick Thu 28-Mar-13 17:29:59

Look, I'm not going to just suddenly run out. I need to plan a bit.

I fear that the pair of them are desperate to goad me though.

something2say Thu 28-Mar-13 17:31:08

Um who posted those quotes????

JoySchtick Thu 28-Mar-13 17:31:13

something It was not on my H's pages. It was on a ....friend of a friend's pages.

something2say Thu 28-Mar-13 17:32:08

Of course you do. Avoid wherever you can then, if you think they will goad you. They can't be trusted whatsoever.

something2say Thu 28-Mar-13 17:32:27

Exactly.....!!

JoySchtick Thu 28-Mar-13 17:33:04

It's nice to be understood.

Xales Thu 28-Mar-13 17:34:38

They are. If you react they can point at you in your madness and accuse you of being deranged, nasty, a bitch whatever they want and turn it into your fault.

Your apparent coolness and lack of interaction means they cannot escalate.

Your H could rant at you all he wanted, thump things, get in the way of you. If you shouted back he could escalate it to a nasty row. If you pushed past him he could shove you. It would have all given him an excuse.

Heartbreaking as it is your lack of interaction is the best thing.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Thu 28-Mar-13 17:34:41

Please,please, please...LTB!!!!!

ShipwreckedAndComatose Thu 28-Mar-13 17:35:13

His lack of concern for you and loyalty to the OW is just hideous to read sad

JoySchtick Thu 28-Mar-13 17:36:29

I also bought some ear plugs on the way home.

One can only take so much ranting and it can get very noisy round here.

JoySchtick Thu 28-Mar-13 17:37:05

His lack of concern for you and loyalty to the OW is just hideous to read

It is truly awful.

onefewernow Thu 28-Mar-13 17:37:08

Oh I understood which site and which friend.

Translation: it's all about me not her.

onefewernow Thu 28-Mar-13 17:38:55

A mantra to practice:

" detach, detach, detach"

xx

JoySchtick Thu 28-Mar-13 17:39:17

Yes, she is quite a new friend. I didn't even know she existed until two weeks ago. It was only one week ago that I realised her significance.

I'm not sure I really like her as a friend at all though.

(OK, that's enough cryptic stuff)

LondonNinja Thu 28-Mar-13 17:42:43

I think you need to get yourself away ASAP. He sounds a bit desperate. Glad to hear you're going to be with caring people over the weekend.

Your DH is a... Hmm, think I have no adequate words. I'm staggered. This must be making you reel like crazy. Regroup is right.

fraggletits Thu 28-Mar-13 17:42:43

Earplugs a good idea! Just don't hang around too long or you'll end up believing you drove him to it and that it was really spiteful of you to contact her!!

EggyFucker Thu 28-Mar-13 17:46:03

confused

Stupid cow, on her situation wouldn't you just lie low & shut the fuck up instead of posting shit like that on Facebook?

Joy, be strong xx

Midwife99 Thu 28-Mar-13 17:59:50

I should post something on the sane friend's page along the lines of "Just because you haven't the chance to had sex yet, doesn't mean it isn't an affair"

LondonNinja Thu 28-Mar-13 18:00:19

If be sorely tempted to react to this holier than thou shit with some eloquent wrath. They deserve it.

You sound really calm. Their attitudes STINK. I'd be fucking ranting at this point but I suspect you're in shock. Reading about this is shocking enough; living it must be awful.

Get angry - I don't mean rant and rave like I would but channel it into escaping this rat.

LondonNinja Thu 28-Mar-13 18:01:07

*I'd

fraggletits Thu 28-Mar-13 18:02:45

Lundy would definitely say you should leave!

Angelico Thu 28-Mar-13 18:04:05

Joy so sorry. Keep yourself safe xo

And for what it's worth I'm at the point where I would think 'Fuck the pair of you!' and tell her husband.

Angelico Thu 28-Mar-13 18:05:06

They actually sound like they deserve each other. I cannot comprehend how utterly deluded your DH is. confused

ThreeTomatoes Thu 28-Mar-13 18:06:07

Just read the entire thread, flipping heck!!

He repeated that I was being selfish, that I could not mess about when children were involved, ruining innocent lives - same sort of thing as in his text. He really made a big play of the whole children part and how people who have children have responsibilities which can't be messed with. He kept saying do you know what you've done.

What an absolute FUCKWIT. What the fuck did he think he was doing when he was messaging her that stuff all that time?!

You said earlier in the thread iirc that you're not really bothered about divvying up what you're entitled to, you own your own flat, your assets are kept separate anyway, you have no kids, etc. If that's the case, iiwy I'd find some temporary accommodation and sort out moving back into your own flat. Meanwhile you can get onto a solicitor re divorce and working out what you're entitled to etc.

JoySchtick Thu 28-Mar-13 18:12:39

Thanks fraggletits that saves me having to read a whole book.

I am very, very angry. I've always found schmaltzy inspirational quotes a bit irritating.

I am mindful of this:

If you react they can point at you in your madness and accuse you of being deranged, nasty, a bitch whatever they want and turn it into your fault.

mathanxiety Thu 28-Mar-13 18:13:56

Joy, he meant to lock you out.

His comment about 'stupid escalation' reveals --
-he intended it to be an escalation, he saw it as a reasonable thing to do (he projects, and he minimises what he thinks and does)
-he sees this as a war or contest and not a loving relationship

You need to pay attention to your own safety and focus all your energy on ending this as soon as you can manage it, legally. Then you need to try to get him out of your hair emotionally.

I didn't bold that just for effect. He is capable of doing whatever it takes in his mind to establish control. Pack your things. Forget earplugs.

Do you have anywhere you can go, tomorrow or even today? Failing that, plan fast, but your plan needs to involve leaving and your safety.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Thu 28-Mar-13 18:17:48

What will you do?

LondonNinja Thu 28-Mar-13 18:19:01

He's already made it clear it's all your fault...

SundaysGirl Thu 28-Mar-13 18:19:52

shock Good grief.

Um I'm almost speechless reading this. So sorry this is happening in your life right now.

Can I just ask though why on earth you are sitting in a house letting someone who has betrayed you scream and rant at you? Surely there is somewhere else you can go? Earplugs? How about removing yourself totally from this complete wanker?

Midwife99 Thu 28-Mar-13 18:22:16

Of course he meant to lock you out. I'd have to tell her husband now. But you're a better person than I angry

I'd be on the phone to her husband, I wouldnt be able to help myself after that lot of BS they've both come out with

Please please ring him

*disclaimer * I'm not saying its a good idea but I could help myself

Fuck them both

EverybodysSootyEyed Thu 28-Mar-13 18:26:19

I don't understand why they are being such goady fuckers when you could just forward the evidence you have to her poor h.

They have so much more to lose than you. Weirdos.

I think you should get out now though because he is in no way rational. Have you contacted a solicitor?

Could'nt

QuintEggSensuality Thu 28-Mar-13 18:31:48

He is a nasty piece of work.

Can you ensure you take all your important paperwork out of your home and keep at friends house, along with a bag of clothing? I think you need to prepare to just move out, move on, and forward their messages to OWs husband. The more you say about your dh and OW the more I think her dh needs to know how she is behaving.

candyandyoga Thu 28-Mar-13 18:35:09

Can you go to the house with a burly male friend and get Important things out of the house? He will probably go though your things.

I second phoning her husband or getting one of your mates to do it!

ODearMe Thu 28-Mar-13 19:14:40

I have been following this thread from the beginning and I feel very sorry you are going through this.

What worries me is that you haven't said you are going to leave.

We are all analysing the details but this man is beyond reasoning with.

I don't understand why you are still there? Are you waiting for him to leave you?

fraggletits Thu 28-Mar-13 19:21:14

Yeah that's a good quote Joy, I have been worked up to overreacting with my H and then instantly look like the bad one.

Unbelievably there are more women in prison for domestic crimes against their husbands than the other way round apparently, according to the nice lady at WA I spoke to yesterday!

LittleEdie Thu 28-Mar-13 19:42:17

Like everyone else I am gob smacked at his reaction. It would certainly make me want to tell her husband all the more.

TheSmallPrint Thu 28-Mar-13 19:53:59

What a twat he is. Don't put up with anymore of this balming behaviour from him. Please. sad

PaddingtonBearsDuffleCoat Thu 28-Mar-13 19:57:16

Sorry you are going through this, he sounds delusional. Just to make it absolutely clear - Restraining orders are not granted by the police but by the Courts and there is no way that one phone call to someone is harassment. For him to even think that the police would be interested is a joke. You have to show a pattern of behaviour that causes harassment, alarm or distress so please don't be frightened by his bullying bravado. On the other hand his behaviour towards you does show a pattern of harassment and if you were to go to the police I think it is his behaviour rather than yours which would cause them concern. Please stop talking to him, it can only cause you anguish now you know he cares nothing for your feelings.

ODearMe Thu 28-Mar-13 20:04:51

If he did go to the police, just show them this thread.

mathanxiety Thu 28-Mar-13 20:09:19