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Don't understand what this means, is it a brush off?

(185 Posts)
peppasnemesis Wed 20-Mar-13 17:07:40

Sorry, it's really not an important issue, but I've been chatting to this guy (we work at the same company, but he's in a different dep't to me with different shifts, so we only see each other occasionally).

We've recently started talking on a social networking site, but he has a partner that lives in the US (long term relationship).He was upfront about saying that he thought I was attractive or whatever, liked talking to me but he has a partner, said this at the very beginning so I knew where I stood.

I'm now going to be leaving the company and this man has said that if he was single, he would have at least liked to go for a drink with me but has said he's still happy to chat to me.

Now, as he was talking past tense, what does this mean? Is this his way of somehow dropping me? I never thought it could be anything more than just friends, but I'm now sure why he said the "if I was single" thing, it feels like a bit of a brush off somehow - like he thought I was coming on to him or something!

How do I talk to him now...it suddenly feels all awkward, lol.

peppasnemesis Wed 20-Mar-13 17:08:34

By the way his comment was out of the blue, I hadn't asked him out or anything, but had apologised if I'd made him feel awkward as I'd mentioned ome past history in our previous conversation, which was a bit...well makes people feel uncomfortable usually.

meditrina Wed 20-Mar-13 17:12:06

He's setting the new boundaries. You won't be seeing him at work, and he's making it clear he's not going to start seeing you away from work.

He wants to be a cyber equivalent of a pen pal, not a face to face friend.

musickeepsmesane Wed 20-Mar-13 17:12:16

sounds like he is looking for a bit on the side. Depends on how you feel about that.

peppasnemesis Wed 20-Mar-13 17:14:09

meditrina - that's what I meant by a brush off. So I was right then sad ah well.

So umm...should I just stop contacting him then? Because I'd rather have been a 'real life' friend than an online one.

Roseflowers Wed 20-Mar-13 17:17:08

I'd take it as it is to be honest. He finds you attractive and if he were single he would take you out, however he is not single and therefore nothing can/ should happen between you. He'd still like to chat to you as a friend, however I'd be careful if you are actually interested in this man as becoming attached to someone who has a girlfriend (even if they reciprocate your interest) is a one way ticket to a world of frustration and misery. In short, I'd be careful with this one.

sarahseashell Wed 20-Mar-13 18:20:08

Perhaps you could just keep in very casual friendly contact in the event that one day you might both happen to be single at the same time? that's what I'd take it to mean tbh

LeslieWink1e Wed 20-Mar-13 18:21:31

Tten years ago i would have spent hours analysing that (if i liked him like tha). now i would say "what are you saying to me! i dont know if ive cracked the code correctly".

Gingerandcocoa Wed 20-Mar-13 18:24:16

I actually think he is trying to see if you mind being the OW, without actually saying it...

Lavenderhoney Wed 20-Mar-13 18:30:02

I think he is being kind and saying he has a partner so he won't be taking it any further. " I would if I was single" means exactly that, but he's not so he is telling you it's not going to happen. Maybe he feels you would like more and he wants you to know its not a go.

Still happy to chat- yes, online by the sound of it! A rl pal is much more fun, you are rightsmile

peppasnemesis Wed 20-Mar-13 19:26:37

Thanks everyone. No I've never given him the impression I wanted more, because I don't, really. Not sure to be honest.

We've been talking again tonight (virtually again of course! *rolls eyes*) and he was very much "part of me really fancies you, the rest of me knows I shouldn't" and "I'm in uncharted territory with you, so we can either stop now or carry and and see where it takes us".

I'd like to have just been friends as we do get on, but if he's lining me up for something else then...well no. Not while he's taken, anyway.

How do I say that without being too obvious?

Gingerandcocoa Wed 20-Mar-13 19:31:14

I think you should break contact. He's obviously flirting and trying to make something happen with you. If you really think you can just stay friends, I would say:

"I'd prefer it if you didn't mention you fancying me anymore, as you have a partner and it's disrespectful to her and to me. If that's not possible, then it might be best if we stopped talking" - as a MINIMUM.

Please don't listen to his words!! What an idiot.

musickeepsmesane Wed 20-Mar-13 19:45:29

what Ginger said. God knows who else he is lining up online see what I did there

RoomForASmallOne Wed 20-Mar-13 19:45:59

Agree with Ginger

He sounds like a chancer who is trying his luck tbh.

You're best to cut him off OP

RoomForASmallOne Wed 20-Mar-13 19:46:57

And don't worry about being too obvious....he hasn't, has he??

peppasnemesis Wed 20-Mar-13 21:39:16

Very true...sigh.

Ok, shall say bye bye to the chamcer. Thanks all.

CognitiveOverload Wed 20-Mar-13 21:42:20

He has a partner...so unless you really like him...in which case say its a shame...otherwise move on...sounds like he's testing the water...

CognitiveOverload Wed 20-Mar-13 21:44:35

Tell him you don't seem men who have partners. If you want to see each other he needs to be single. Maybe he's not sure you kike him

EggyFucker Wed 20-Mar-13 21:45:20

He's trying to get in your knickers

But instead of being upfront he is playing games

Time to drop him, from a great height

BMW6 Wed 20-Mar-13 22:34:38

What Eggyfucker says

ClippedPhoenix Wed 20-Mar-13 22:38:26

I'd delete and block him.

He's getting his rocks off on you somehow isn't he.

Probably has an ego the size of king kongs head.

AndTheBandPlayedOn Wed 20-Mar-13 22:40:59

Good for you for seeing through it, Peppasnemesis. Cheers wine

AndTheBandPlayedOn Wed 20-Mar-13 22:50:37

Maybe the game is that he has a partner and is banking on appearing more attractive because of that fact (and he may not have a partner at all).

Perhaps he is supposing that he would cheat 'just for you'...like that is going to make you feel special and abandon your moral code too?

This dynamic is screaming manipulation, and that is pretty much the definition of seduction.

He's a twat. And boring. His poor girlfriend sad

Wonderland121 Thu 21-Mar-13 00:34:45

I agree with ginger & eggy.

notimefors Thu 21-Mar-13 00:43:03

Yeah, he's testing the water.

QueenOfCats Thu 21-Mar-13 00:53:40

Maybe I'm a bit simple, but I would read it as he enjoys chatting with you and would like to carry on chatting with you even though you're leaving the company blush

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 13:15:59

Hmm. Well so far he's only mentioned meeting up in a "maybe we could bump into each other sometime" sort of way.

If he trying to get his leg over, then why mention he had a partner? His facebook profile doesn't have any photos of him with women on it, and his relationship status is blank so I'd never have known if he hadn't told me - but he was upfront about it from the first tie we ever spoke (although he did word it as "I am in a relationship, but she lives in the U.S and it was 6 months ago I saw her last, likely to be another 6 months before I get to see her again so it's a bit weird").

I'm happy to chat but then I'm worried about him suggesting meeting up...which I'd do (go for a drink) as friends, is that even ok if he has a partner? I suppose he wouldn't tell her "hey darling, I just went out for a drink with this woman I used to work with, and by the way I have told her I fancy her".

Grr, why do I always 'attract' possibly slimey men?

LeslieWrinkle Thu 21-Mar-13 13:17:51

I don't know but it could be that he feels that letting you know he is attracted to you is a compliment. Or, less blunt than making it seem like, not in any circumstances woudl he go out with you.

UnEggspectedItemInBonnetArea Thu 21-Mar-13 13:24:48

He either has a partner and so is being really disrespectful to her = not someone you should be getting involved with.

Or

He doesn't have a partner but is using a fake one to have no strings sex with you = not someone you should be getting involved with.

Either way he's a knob.

Don't go for a drink with him, it's likely to just get more complicated.

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 13:26:07

Could be I suppose. I never suggested I liked him though, I only ever spoke to him in a friendly way about generic stuff, I'm not naturally flirty so wouldn't have been giving off signals...

I just dont want to go getting myself into any awkward situations, that's all.

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 13:29:27

UnEggspected...lol I agree with that, but did you have to have a bloody hilarious username while you're making your serious and very vaild point? smile

If his partner genuinely lives so far away...ok this is going to sound bad but I've never really valued long distance relationships, all seems a bit strange to me - so do the same rules really apply when the partner lives thousands of miles away, and they only see each other twice a year? Presuming all that is true, of course...

ladyjadie Thu 21-Mar-13 13:38:35

Hmm.. My first reaction when I read the OP and a couple more was, 'wow, there are actually men who are upfront about having a GF, especially a long distance one. But jeez, how many times has he now told you he fancies you, he wants you, he 'would' (so to speak grin ) ?! God knows what's going on in his brain! I'd stay friends with him if you like being friends with him, why not? I wouldn't see any need to just axe the friendship yet. If he tries to push further then yeah, I'd cut him out of my life and try to find his poor gf to warn her

It is strange he has no mention of her on FB but then some people just don't use it that much or maybe their partner has expressed that they don't want to be splashed around online.

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 14:02:40

He's not online much to be honest, I do believe he has a partner - not asked how long term she is but I'm guessing if it's genuinely long distance, she must be quite long term otherwise he wouldn't bother (or is that just me).

So, can someone define friends then? I have a funny relationship with my male friends - they're really friendly when they're single and then when they have girlfriends they turn into online friends - which I suppose is the 'proper' thing to do, out of respect for their gfs.

I'm sort of feeling like yes we get on, but online friends have always seemed a bit strange to me; why be 'friends' with someone you never meet up with in person?

But then if I met up with him in person - is that dodgy ground?

I've only had one (veeery long term) relationship; can you tell? :P

allaflutter Thu 21-Mar-13 14:22:20

OP, I'm still not clear from your OP and otherwise - are you strongly attarcted to him and would want to date, or are you after friendship??
If friendship, then OF COURSE it's fine to go for drinks even flirt mildly - his GF knows very well that he's bound to socialise with women, when they see each other twice a year! I'm also very hmm about their weird relationship. Maybe there aer financial ties, or plans to have a family, but really close relationships do not work like this as it's usually beyond people who aer in love to be apart so much! unless it's some kind of visa problems and they have to wait.

It sounds though (if not to do with visas) that their relationship is not very close or very passionate, but they have reasons to keep the relationship. In this scenario, I think he's likely to sleep with other women, possibly even with her knowledge, and what he's telling you is, I'm not after a LTR but wouldn't say no to a quick fling or FWB, but is spelling out to you where you stand - meaning if you agree withhis terms then he "would", but don't expect anything more. It could also be that she's fictional, as UnEgg says. The bottom line is, he is offering a "no-strings, or nothing at all" in both cases.

allaflutter Thu 21-Mar-13 14:25:04

by the way, if you went for friendship, then there is a small chance it will grow into more, and that he will finish with his P, so you could try this route, but I wouldn't advise sleeping with him unless it gets more serious emotionally for botrh of you.

If you want a no-strings (which I haven't considered), then be upfront and ask whether he's in a open relationship.

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 14:31:54

I'm not entirely sure, to be honest.
How it originally started was I was having a stressful time at work, he was a 'friendly face' and always made the effort to say hi when he spoke to me (unlike others) and I messaged him first on facebook - as we dont see each other at work very often now - and just said thanks for being kind, appreciate it etc. Then signed off with a see you around work sometime, not really inviting a reply. He messaged back saying he'd looked me up on facebook and thought about messaging me but was worried he shouldn't...then the (online/text) chat just sort of went from there.

I'd never sleep with anyone who is in a relationship, I haven't asked about his status properly yet but he briefly said that they went to school together, he's spoken about living with other exes in the past so not sure how long he's been in his current relationship, or even if I should ask (seems a bit personal for me to be asking)

I don't really fancy him, just sort of like his style when it comes to his beliefs (kind of spiritual atheist, like me) and the twinkle in his eye.

If he's offering a no strings or not at all thing, then shoudld I do what someone else said and just tell him I'm not into 'just sex' especially not when he other party concerned ha a partner, and risk him cutting contact with me? sad

chocoluvva Thu 21-Mar-13 14:38:00

He's not worth any effort.

ladyjadie Thu 21-Mar-13 14:38:02

I hate when good friends get into relationships and then just disappear sad selfish I know, and I'm a hypocrite too because I've been guilty of it in every single relationship I've had confused heh heh.
How long have you been friends with him? Do you only ever speak online or have you ever hung out IRL (whether it be with workmates or friends or do you chat by the watercooler or go have a fag together etc.)?

I guess I'd define friends as someone you can have a moan (non sexual) with, a laugh with, someone you like being with, someone you can joke around with. But then there's different friendships...

It's only dodgy ground if you or he makes it dodgy ground, I've had male mates with Gf's that I've been super close to but totally platonically.

What is your gut instinct? If you were interested in something more I'd say don't bother with him- he's wierd for constantly bringing up that he has a girlfriend but would otherwise bang you definitely take you out for a drink.

However if you've a vacancy for the 'kinda wierd bloke mate who totally fancies me but i'm not down with that but like him as a mate' then just have him as a random friend?

EggyFucker Thu 21-Mar-13 15:20:16

I reckon you are overthinking this

And even though you say you would never sleep with someone in another relationship, you do seem to be considering it as a possibility

Lots of contradictions in your posts IMO

Helltotheno Thu 21-Mar-13 15:45:56

OP how in holy hell are women still being suckered by the oldest trick in the book, internet or no internet?

All I'm seeing here is someone trying to get into your pants, absolving himself of guilt (by allowing YOU to decide whether the fact that he's with someone should be an issue in his getting in your pants), and all the time trying to increase his chances (the vacuous compliments, the 'if only I were free, you're so amazing' schtick). Please, whatever you do, don't mistake it for anything more.

Yes.. massively overthinking. You either do it or not OP, either way it doesn't promise to be romance of the century.

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 16:13:53

I suppose I don't want to see 'all' men (as every one I seem to come across acts the same as this guy) as only out for getting into my/anyone's knickers.

I mean it's flattering, but then even as he says that crap I'm thinking "yeah, you don't really mean that"...thinking about it he did say I have his permission to flirt all I wanted with him - which is sort of a weird thing to say if you're in a relationship. At least, I think it is.

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 16:16:45

Oh and ladyjadie - not long really, 6 months or so since we originally met but we've only been facebook messaging and texting this past week.

We only see each other briefly in work, for between 30 seconds (quick hello) and 2 minutes at a time, he was the one finding stuff for me though and guiding me through things at work which is why I messaged him originally, to thank him for helping out.

ladyjadie Thu 21-Mar-13 16:23:02

Yeah, he's weird.

Wierd can be good.

if you don't mind being the other woman :/

I'm sure you aren't being given any sort of brush-off, in fact

he did say I have his permission to flirt all I wanted with him

he seems desperate for you to chase him!

keep messaging and give it a week, you might have your answer by then.

Buzzardbird Thu 21-Mar-13 16:31:40

What Hell said and he is also trying to get you to do all the running and persuading so that it wasn't really his fault that he cheated on his girlfriend. Guess what? He will do the same to you next.

Er, it's not really flattering that some bloke wouldn't mind a shag, or having you fluttering your lashes at him constantly, but wants you to bear in mind he has a girlfriend and it's not going to be you. confused

Helltotheno Thu 21-Mar-13 16:41:21

I mean it's flattering

You think? One woman's compliment is another woman's sleaze I guess...

EggyFucker Thu 21-Mar-13 16:43:58

It's flattering?

You need to get out more, dude

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 16:50:05

Ok I don't want to be his girlfriend. Honest.

BUT you all seem to think that the fact he mentioned he has one, means he's telling me flat out that it's not going to be me.

Excuse my ignorance but..how so?

Helltotheno Thu 21-Mar-13 16:59:46

No love, he's not telling you it's not going to be you, what he's telling you is he has a girlfriend but has no qualms about shagging anyone else who'll have him and very like has done and he'd like that anyone else to be you... somewhat different.

MysteriousHamster Thu 21-Mar-13 16:59:51

Because if he has a girlfriend and she's not you then you're not his girlfriend?

Look, if you really like him tell him to finish with her before starting anything with you.

Otherwise it comes across like you're asking permission to go after someone you know is attached.

Imagine if your partner cheated on you, and you found out the other woman knew all along he was in a relationship, weighed it up, and decided he was fair game?

This guy is inviting you to flirt with him. Wake up! Find someone unattached or make certain he is.

plantsitter Thu 21-Mar-13 17:02:17

God I dunno, but stop trying to figure out what he means if he's not prepared to be clear about it.

If you like him, send him a message saying something like 'If you want to go out for a drink, great, but only if you're single. Make your mind up. Otherwise, let's just keep things simple and leave it.'

Since you don't have to see him again in RL by the sound of it, you don't even need to worry about his response.

(for what it's worth, he sounds like a knob. But maybe you are not giving clear signals about how you feel and he is too chicken to find out in a normal way, by becoming single and asking you).

He's telling you very clearly that the position is taken. But if you want, you can volunteer to be something a bit more... convenient. An exceedingly fast way to make yourself feel like undervalued rubbish.

dontyouwantmebaby Thu 21-Mar-13 17:06:27

what Helltotheno said. Exactly that.

Sorry if this isn't the case OP but its coming across from your posts that you do fancy him. I don't get why you looked him up on facebook to message him a thank you when you could have seen him in person.

I'd be v.uncomfortable if my male friends admitted that they fancied me and couldn't enjoy their company anymore. I'd delete him from facebook and forget about the 'friendship' if it was me.

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 17:08:35

I'd flirt with him (but just mildly, not sex talk or anything!) and go for a drink with him whilst he was attached.

I WOULDN'T kiss him, sleep with him or anything along those lines, while he is attached.

If he was single, probably the same to be honest.

He is being quite vague; thinking about our last conversation it was very much a mix of "I fancy you but shouldn't" and "I liked you the first time I saw you" and then some vague crap about maybe we should meet up, maybe we should either stop or see where it takes us...so thinking about it from the outside it probably is just a sleazy guy testing the water.

sad

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 17:09:57

dontyouwantmebaby

Only because it's every few weeks that we actually see each other in work - as I said, we work in different departments and a lot of the time he's in the branch in another town anyway. That's the only reason.

Words, words, words, words, words. Some people are full of them. It, I mean.

'See where it takes us'? The whole point of being in a relationship is that you don't go seeing how far you can get with other people. He's morally dubious and that doesn't mean 'with everyone except you'.

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 17:15:49

Ok - here's the first few messages that were sent (first one is in response to me messaging saying thanks for making the effort to say hi in work when things were a bit stressful:

HIM: "Hey, sorry but I've only just found your message on facebook. It's definitely no hardship saying hello to you..... I think that you are lovely. I did look you up on facebook but wasn't sure if I should contact you.... It was a very pleasant surprise to find your message."

ME: "Thanks, I wasn't expecting a reply anyway (I guessed you probably don't get on facebook much) and to be honest was really worried I'd have overstepped the mark contacting you. So thanks for such a lovely reply."

HIM: "No worries girl. It is difficult for both of us. I liked you the first time I saw you and our brief chats did nothing to put me off lol. I am in a relationship although she lives in the USA (long story.. but I was at school with her). I haven't seen her since October and it's likely to be September before I get to see her again, so it's a bit strange. How about you? What's your situation? What are you up to? I did see and like the picture of you, that you have since taken down, can't think why lol" (I did have my profile pic as myself - head and shoulders, nothing dodgy! but replaced it with one of my children a while back)

So - very boring, sorry about that, but I don't think I came across as though I was somehow chatting him up, honestly from those messages what would you initially think his intentions are? Because at the time, I thought he genuinely just wanted friendship.

"It is difficult for both of us"

confused

What? Is he already trying to create an atmosphere of you and him, clandestine against the world?

Oh, this whole thing is just nasty. Drop him, honestly. It's a mindfuck.

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 17:20:57

Wow, Leucan (and others) I must be really braindead then to not see what you are seeing...

EggyFucker Thu 21-Mar-13 17:21:26

You sound very naive, op

Helltotheno Thu 21-Mar-13 17:24:10

So far, so cliche. Sure you didn't borrow this from some dodgy teen flick OP?

'It's complicated' yada yada ZZzzzz

Sorry blush, don't mean to be harsh.

It just reads to me as though he's pulling the whole romantic, if-only-it-could-be-you words bollocks, when what he's actually doing is cheating on his girlfriend by having wistful romantic conversations with another woman. I do think that's nasty, and I don't think you want to get drawn into anything with someone who does that.

Helltotheno Thu 21-Mar-13 17:26:10

Wooa, wait..... this couldn't all just be an elaborate front for a stealth boast OP, could it???

<jaded cynicism alert>

dontyouwantmebaby Thu 21-Mar-13 17:28:28

"I am in a relationship although she lives in the USA (long story.. but I was at school with her). I haven't seen her since October and it's likely to be September before I get to see her again, so it's a bit strange. How about you? What's your situation?"

oh Peppa please give this bloke a wide berth, you can do better than him. He sounds like an utter creep. Imagine if the situation were reversed, would you not find it weird to speak about the person you were in a relationship with like that? How odd that he admits its "a bit strange". What he means is " its complicated" & if he can get a no-strings shag in the meantime, all well and good. He doesn't want a g/f at all.

wrongsideoftheroad Thu 21-Mar-13 17:32:44

What he's basically saying here is:

"I would like to shag you. I've told you upfront that I'm not available to commit. Therefore, I will happily use you for sex without offering you any kind of commitment. And if you have a problem with that I will simply point out that you knew what was on offer before you took it."

Yeah, he sounds like a real catch.

I'd delete him tbh.

I think you are putting a lot of thought and energy into this given that you say you are not interested in a relationship with him hmm

He doesn't sound much of a catch from what you have said here.

wrongsideoftheroad Thu 21-Mar-13 17:39:14

TBH, I think what you've said about how you're not flirty and don't send out signals or whatever is contradicted by your actions.

Someone was friendly to you at work so you searched for them on facebook and sent them a chatty message? But you don't think that's flirty?

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 17:56:02

Honest answer? No. Because I genuinely just said in cae I don't see you (him) in work any time soon, thanks for being a friendly face when at the time there weren't many of those (long story). Not even chatty, surely. Just acknowledging that he had been 'there' with a smile and a hello when not many others had. I saw it as being polite.

Plus...he did say in the first message he'd looked me up too, so I didn't think much of it.

And yes (whoever said it) I tend to take things at face value - if he'd wanted a shag I expected him to just say it.

I take it, it'd be weird/wrong to just ask him exactly what he wants from me and cut the crap?

Helltotheno - stealth boasting about what? Some apparently sleazy older guy was trying to use me to boost his ego? hmm and nope, not out of a 'romance' novel...u ca log into my facebook if u like and see for yourself :p

EggyFucker Thu 21-Mar-13 18:07:32

Just cut the crap yourself and stop giving this tool headspace

Easy-peasy

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 18:13:40

sad ok.

It would be weird/wrong because you're only likely to get another bucketful of drivel in response.

Think! If this were your partner, and you found he'd been saying this stuff to someone he worked with, would you think:

a) I'm absolutely fine with him saying he wishes he were single to other women

b) he must really like her, this is his destiny and I'm obviously not the one for him so I'll stand out of his way, poor man

or

c) cowardly chancer, who isn't that bothered about either of us.

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 18:20:14

I know, I see your (and everyone else's) point.

I was trying to ignore that bit of me that was thinking he was just a man-whore and wanted to see the best in him I suppose.

allaflutter Thu 21-Mar-13 18:22:27

OP, I thought I dd suggest to just ask him directly, you have nothing to lose, do you? I don't think he sounds great (he speaks about his GF in a weird detached/disrespectful way, yet still calls it a relationship, he OBVIOUSLY is giving you a come on with all the compliments), but for you to get the picture straight in your mind, I do think you should just ask what does he actually want - just say 'I'm not great at understanding hints, so please spell it out!'.

If he does say he wants to date you, just say that you don;t date attached men. Maybe they aer drifting apart and it will be over soon with his GF, but don't go there until it happens.

Sorry sad.

But people who say they're attached, and then put out feelers to see how far you'd go anyway... not good. Not good for you at all.

EggyFucker Thu 21-Mar-13 18:23:33

Why are you sad ? It's just a bloke. A sleazy one at that.

Move on.

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 18:26:33

Just thought if I asked him straight out what he wanted from me, he'd know I'd been thinking about it and I didn't want to boost his ego even further.

Not if he's just some chancer that chats everyone up.

Although...seeing as he said I'm "uncharted territory" (which no, I didn't believe when he said it!) then whoever said it is probably right and I would just get a load of vague crap back.

I just hate cutting people out if they haven't done anything wrong (as in, havent hurt me or whatever), never been any good at it.

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 18:27:49

Eggy - cos I only ever get men like this talking to me. Literally, not one decent one. Even the one I did think was decent, that I've known for 10 years...told me the other week during a normal chatty conversation that he was horny and then that made me feel really awkward and it's ruined things between us.

allaflutter Thu 21-Mar-13 18:29:47

I see the other posters' popint, but it's better than a man who keeps quiet about his GF, that's a notch sleazier! Bear in mind that some women WOULD shag an attached man, especially if GF is far away, purely as she is at a loose end, so I'm sure he had those before and is seeing what OP is like. But if she doesn't go there, then she can test his feelings or lack of towards her.

EggyFucker Thu 21-Mar-13 18:30:31

Only sleazebags ever "talk" to you ?

What mediums do you use to "talk" to men ?

allaflutter Thu 21-Mar-13 18:36:31

I can't see how this would boost his ego - he was chatting you up, and even if you didn't fancy him, you'd ask what he's driving at! You don't have to ask, I thought you wanted to be sure yourself - if you liked him. You can just breezily leave it as 'well see you around sometime' - tat's not cutting him off, then if he insists and asks you out, just explain that you don't date attached people, you can only be friends. I think direct talking forces chancers to stop playing around. If he's not a chancer but really likes you, it's up to him to change his situation.

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 19:02:16

True allaflutter.

Eggy - my ex was/is a controlling, manipulative, violent dick...before and since, then only men I meet are ones on the school run (single dads, not the married ones!), the ones like the friend I've known for 10 years (since we were both 'witches' in our teens, lol...and then ones at work.

I don't go out looking for men, don't flirt with them deliberately, but I do wonder whether what I see as a chatty/warm and friendly personality might come across as 'flirty' - but I never talk about anything sexual or double entendre stuff with these men, it's only ever random chatter.

I only ever seem to 'attract' older men, too; my ex was 20 years older than me and the older ones do tend to be drawn to me more than the younger ones.

I by no means get a lot of attention...and tbh I assume this 'attention' I get from the men I do get it from, must be because I'm sort of average looking (girl next door type), slim and a single mum so maybe they assume I'm easy game or something.

I must be doing something wrong.

Helltotheno Thu 21-Mar-13 19:11:35

OP did you ever have counselling?

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 19:12:51

Oh god, knew I'd get psycho-analysed if I mentioned that.

No, I didn't.

allaflutter Thu 21-Mar-13 19:15:51

OP, 'flirty' isn't really just friendly chat, it's all about the eye contact, smiling, body language even is subtle - that shows you fancy them. Maybe older men are different as they often like very approachable girl-next-door manner, they'd be too insecure with a very sexy woman if she's 15-20 yrs younger.
Also, do you chat to younger men, or is it the fact that you feel more relaxed with older ones, so not giving younger ones a chance?
It comes across that men see you as a soft touch. This friend of 10yrs was really out of order telling you he was horny! hmm You need to be more assertive with this kind of behaviour and just say something like 'I don't want to know', 'I'd rather you kept this to yourself, thanks' in a non-smiley way.

Right, well, potential bollocks alert here...

... but as someone who ended up in two violent relationships in a row, two things I've identified about my own behaviour that ring a bell from what you're saying are:

1) I don't get a lot of attention. Probably. I don't know because I keep my head down these days.

2) Which means the attention I do notice is the really pushy sort. Which tends to be from, ta-daa, you guessed it, the pushy sort.

And I'm not great at dealing with 2) because I now have a lot of ingrained eager-to-please mannerisms around people who are larger than me. Which trust me, I'm eradicating as fast as I can spot them!

Ring any bells? Or off the mark?

Helltotheno Thu 21-Mar-13 19:19:48

Well you should to delve into what you're attracting. I think you've been very disingenuous on this thread with the whole 'innocent little me' thing. You knew exactly what was going on with this guy.
You also really like getting compliments about the way you look etc, they make you feel good about yourself and you see them as flattering: you need to raise your standards and explore why that sort of flatter is thye be all and end all to you.
Again, a little bit disingenuous to play the whole 'Oh I'm just chatty and friendly me' card when you know well the times you're flirting and the times you're not.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I just don't feel you're coming across that genuine about this. Nobody's perfect though. People have gone to counselling for less.

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 19:20:50

Well I mean, I'm 30 so not exactly a child. Although I know, I seem younger from what I've said on here.

I don't really come across many men my own age - I don't go out all that often apart from with a few 'mum friends' every few weeks, but then we're not looking for men to talk to anyway.

That's what I meant; I'm just being friendly, but I must be coming across in a flirty way; maybe I subconsciously bat my eyelashes or something, I don't know.

I'm happily single anyway and have said this to this guy, he said good on me but then thinking about it he did log off facebook pretty quick after that...although, he text a bit later on and we had another bit of a conversation.

And the friend of 10yrs...it was on the phone he said it and I hung up on him :/

allaflutter Thu 21-Mar-13 19:28:02

so what was that last bit of conversation - how did you end it after all?

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 19:31:55

Leucan...sort of blush. Not sure whether you meant literally keeping your head down, or in a metaphorical way, but I literally do it. Try to be more confident nowadays, but if a van beeps when they drive past me I do tend to assume they're taking the piss - whereas maybe more confident women might lap up anything like that (or maybe not, I don't know cos I'm not one).

I swear to god this isn't boasting, just me being genuine in the hope someone can identify something I'm doing wrong; something that I've been missing so far... but in the past 12 months there's been aforementioned manipulative ex trying to mess me around (we split up ages back but he's still trying his headfuck thing every now and again), some guy on a forum like this got chatting to me then scared the b'jaysus out of me after 3 weeks by saying he loved me, a couple of weeks after that I had to stay in a b+b (long story) and the guy in the room next door started with the 'I fancy you' crap, then my friend of 10yrs sort of hinted that back when he liked me (he told me he did a couple of years ago), if I'd gone for it we'd have been good together and then proceeded to tell me he was horny, erm, oh - a 'facebook friend' I worked with about 6 years ago told me a few months ago that he had liked me quite a lot when we worked together and said we should go for a drink when he's back up here (he lives down South now) - but then started talking as though he wanted a no strings sex thing...a single dad at the school started getting a bit too friendly (I'd chat to him in the playground, gave him my number when he asked but that was because I didn't feel I could say no, then he asked me out and I've been avoiding him ever since) - then there's the one I mentioned in this thread.

No idea if that's a normal level of male 'attention' - and sorry that last paragraph was just a jumble of words and no formatting, but I have a toddler on my lap! - but I feel like maybe I'm somehow coming across (subconsiously or whatever) as...like I said, easy target, desperate, needy, or something?

Even though I don't go out looking for men, chatting them up or anything like that!

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 19:35:42

erm, didn't really come to a conclusion...he asked what I was up to, I said nothing much, random chat like that I think, ooh hang on...he did say something about me messaging him again sometime and I said I was going to leave the contact to him, so it doesnt seem like I'm chasing him or something, he made a joke (I assume) about it being a pleasant change from him being the one doing the chasing (!) then...he said something about his age/my ex and asked if it's made me wary of older men and when I replied that I didn't know what his intentions were and neither did he seem to - so why should I be wary, I think goodnight was said fairly soon afterwards.

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 19:38:15

Oh nvm...think we've got our answer.

He text me half an hour ago (just found text) and it says:

"Hey, you haven't annoyed...I mean contacted me once today! Have you gone off me already? lol."

Bit of a piss take hmm

EggyFucker Thu 21-Mar-13 19:44:01

He's been taking the piss all the way through. This is what you have failed to see. You got your head turned by the flattery. Try and boost your self esteem in other ways than lapping up dubious attention from men.

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 19:45:29

I suspected it, was just sort of hoping he might have actually been genuine. Btw I did reply to his text saying I'd never said I was 'on' him, so I'm not a total sap.

From what you've said, and I'm sure it's nowhere near the whole truth, you do sound friendly where you shouldn't be, ifysim. Not flirty, just friendly, eager to be friends, to the point of accepting comments you should really be raising a very firm and obvious eyebrow to.

As flutter said, if someone says something you don't welcome, say so. Don't carry on being friendly and then agonise about what they may or may not have meant afterwards. Because 'friendly' says 'carry right on pushing because you haven't made me frown yet...'

UnEggspectedItemInBonnetArea Thu 21-Mar-13 19:55:43

You can do better Peppa thanks

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 20:03:10

Yes, I think that does stem from my ex to be honest Leucan - if I said anything out of line, there would be consequences...and he still tries it; wants me to sleep with him and if I don't, he doesn't see the children - he's not that obvious about it, is clever with his words but it still adds up to the same thing.

This guy is still texting...dont suppose that means he's any more genuine? Just checking ;)

No, it means he thinks he's found himself a mug. Fortunately, you're not.

I may well be wrong, but it appears to me that after a rough time you're so pleased someone is saying nice things to you, you're wilfully shutting your eyes to the unpleasantness behind it. And you KNOW how that would work out...

Like I said, forget the words he's saying, look at what he's doing. Doesn't it make you shudder, after what you've gone through?

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 20:18:49

... yes. Ok, point taken. And yes, I was wilfully ignoring it.

Yeah, well, there's knowing it and knowing it grin. Good for you, honestly - your self-esteem boost should come from thinking you are worth keeping your distance from this man, not that he offered you bilge.

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 20:29:34

Thanks Leucan (and everyone else) smile

aufaniae Thu 21-Mar-13 20:52:32

"I'm just being friendly, but I must be coming across in a flirty way"

I have to say you do seem to be missing big, obvious flags that this guy's intentions are more than just being friends. By continuing to talk to him after he's made his intentions pretty clear, he probably thinks you're up for it, when in fact you're just being a lovely nice person, while missing the bloody obvious!

He said:

"It's definitely no hardship saying hello to you..... I think that you are lovely." This for a start isn't something you say to someone who is just a friend! He's chatting you up. This is the point at which I would run a mile from someone who has a GF, and remind them they're not single!

Your reply, whether you realise it or not, reads as if you are acknowledging his flirtations ...

"Thanks, I wasn't expecting a reply anyway (I guessed you probably don't get on facebook much) and to be honest was really worried I'd have overstepped the mark contacting you. So thanks for such a lovely reply."

... thanking him for a lovely reply for example when he's so obviously talking to you as someone he fancies has possibly given him the green light to flirt with you, as far as he's concerned.

He later says " "No worries girl. It is difficult for both of us. I liked you the first time I saw you and our brief chats did nothing to put me off lol."

This is also him flirting with you / testing the waters, as is asking you what your "situation" is (i.e. how available you are).

You say: "I tend to take things at face value - if he'd wanted a shag I expected him to just say it." But he's already said it - reading between the lines of his messages he's shouting it at you! From his position he probably thinks you understand his intentions.

You do come across as a lovely person, but please forgive me for saying, really quite naive.

Incidentally, there is nothing wrong with making friends with the opposite sex! FWIW I have lots of male friends. However none of them tell me I'm "lovely" or mention my appearance ever, or feel the need to remind me they have girlfriends. They treat me as one of the lads.

If you find yourself on the receiving end of flattering comments about yourself, and your looks, and men telling you they "like you" - newsflash! - they're trying to get into your knickers! If they're single and the feeling is reciprocated, great. smile If they're attached, it's not good news.

"This guy is still texting...dont suppose that means he's any more genuine? Just checking ;)"

Nope, just a genuine slimebag I'm afraid sad

SweetSeraphim Thu 21-Mar-13 20:55:46

I get the impression that you're still interested, OP. Please tell me I'm wrong.

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 21:20:54

Ohh! aufaniae..I really didn't see that :/ makes sense now you've said it, though.

SS - not interested in anything more than friends, however I've asked him straight out now to even answer whether he wants me as a purely text-baseed, non rl friend or what, and he can't even answer that. Said I'm expecting answers he can't give - yet has just asked me what 'if anything', I want from him!

So yep..headfuck.

McBalls Thu 21-Mar-13 21:32:32

Op...please don't feel you have to reply to this but were you the poster with landlord problems a while back?

SweetSeraphim Thu 21-Mar-13 21:32:58

Oh dear. He really is.

allaflutter Thu 21-Mar-13 21:40:19

so how did you reply? just say that you don't want anything from him, if he can't see you purely as a friend! add that you don't date non-singles. If he's been after one thing, he'll drop off.

peppasnemesis Thu 21-Mar-13 21:51:58

I just said it's not fair of him to ask me that if he won't answer himself, made a point of saying he's the one in the relationship and...well the conversation's still going on, with him saying he never said he could't or wouldn't meet up with me, and that it's difficult for both of us.

I'm finding it quite strange now, well more than I was before.

Oh - and he did also say "you've said you don't fancy me which is understandable, but it means that anything physical is out whether I can give it or not".

Lol.

EggyFucker Thu 21-Mar-13 21:55:46

Why are you still engaging with him ?

Slow night on the telly, is it ?

Come on, get a grip

SweetSeraphim Thu 21-Mar-13 22:14:27

I agree with EggyFucker That's why I said before that you're still interested. Why are you still texting him?

allaflutter Thu 21-Mar-13 22:24:51

haha, so now he wants you to argue that no, you didn't REALLY say that you didn't fancy him!

allaflutter Thu 21-Mar-13 22:28:22

see Op, you shouldn't have got involved in p;ayground chat 'I won't show you minem if you don't show me yours" - you should have just said (and still not too late) that you don't date non-singles, short and consice. Now he obv thinks that you would be interested if he was, and it encourages him. Just say now that it's too complicated indeed, which you don't like, so best not to meet. It's clear now he's not after friendship. Let him split up with gf if he wants to date others.

Gingerandcocoa Thu 21-Mar-13 22:29:07

Ok, you obviously won't really listen to what 100 posts have been telling you. It does sound like you're enjoying the attention of someone who is looking to cheat on their partner.

Great for you.

Officially signing out of this thread!

allaflutter Thu 21-Mar-13 22:29:43

"conscise"!

EggyFucker Thu 21-Mar-13 22:37:25

concise smile

allaflutter Thu 21-Mar-13 23:10:23

yes, that! blush

robotpenguin Fri 22-Mar-13 13:24:23

I didn't want to read and run but equally it seems pointless repeating what other posters have said, if yo are adamant you are going to have it your way!

It is not difficult for both of you, as he claims, it seems bloody simple to me. Have a look through the - numerous - other posts on this section from women who have discovered the DH/DP messaging women "with intenet" on the internet, via facebook, dating websites, whatever. See how they feel about it, stop judging his relationship from your selfish viewpoint and the scant and biased description he is bound to give you, and think of his partner, however far or near she might be she is a real person.

Please, do yourself a favour and save your energies for someone that makes your stomach flip and knees weak with lust and excitement, and who wants to be with YOU in entirety, not just a meaningless shag.

peppasnemesis Fri 22-Mar-13 17:43:57

Noted, robotpenguin - but as I've kept saying on here; I DID genuinely think that maybe he wasn't actually after sex and was more interested in the friendship, just because he's not exactly pushing to meet up and seems ok with just texting. He's very vague and I thought if he wanted sex he'd be slightly more direct about it (not telling me he was in a relationship for example, and mentioning meeting up/flirty chat a bit more often.

That's all sad

peppasnemesis Fri 22-Mar-13 17:45:22

I'll say it again, just in case... I didnt want a relationship with this man. Or anything close to one (which includes 'just sex').

Then tell him to sod off. He sounds like a right slimy twat. If I was his girlfriend reading the messages he's sent to you I'd be well shot of him.

peppasnemesis Fri 22-Mar-13 18:48:29

You all 100% sure he's after sex and not just friends? I know I keep asking, but I'd feel bad just dropping him if really it's all innocent.

Helltotheno Fri 22-Mar-13 18:53:11

There's no 'friends'.. what do you mean by 'friends'? Honestly, how do you think the 'friends' thing will play out?

EggyFucker Fri 22-Mar-13 19:04:39

Why do you keep asking ?

It's quite clear what the consensus on this thread is

Just do what you want to do....it's obvious you are going to make a pillock of yourself

dontyouwantmebaby Fri 22-Mar-13 19:04:53

5 pages of people saying what they think. pretty much telling you they are 100% sure that, yes, he is just after sex.

he's not even good 'friend' material, is he? he sounds like a real creep who is being deliberately vague.

tbh the fact he says things to you such as that he would fancy you if only he didn't have a g/f blah blah etc are just so wrong. not what you want in a 'friend' is it.

EggyFucker Fri 22-Mar-13 19:13:09

OP, if just one person says "you should give him a chance, he sounds like a nice bloke" you will be in there like a rat up a drainpipe, won't you ?

ok

Go for it, OP. He sounds like he could be a really great friend. His sexual hints and sleaziness are just a sign he wants to be bezzie mates with you, and his girlfriend is just a phantom figure you should not concern yourself about.

There, you have your permission.

Gingerandcocoa Fri 22-Mar-13 19:25:39

Eggy smile

CoalDustWoman Fri 22-Mar-13 19:31:40

How many female friends do you get into this kind of pickle with?

MysteriousHamster Sat 23-Mar-13 00:15:05

If you want to be 'just friends' with him, then do that. Don't flirt with him, don't be inappropriate with him, don't arrange to meet up at a hotel with him...

Because that's almost certainly what he wants.

Carry on talking to him but without being overly intimate, without being flirty, without complimenting him.

Bet he'll get bored pretty quick.

Schnarkle Sat 23-Mar-13 01:07:12

I do love how these online flirty chats always follow the script of a badly written romance novel.

part of me really fancies you, the rest of me knows I shouldn't" and "I'm in uncharted territory with you, so we can either stop now or carry and and see where it takes us

It's definitely no hardship saying hello to you..... I think that you are lovely

Said I'm expecting answers he can't give

Imagine sat on the couch and having those statements made to you you'd laugh your head off at the tweeness, but online they get away with it. It's so romantic they're practically torn between 2 women. wink

first one is in response to me messaging saying thanks for making the effort to say hi in work when things were a bit stressful

Your message to him though in the first place really was the opening kick to all the flirting though. Why would you message someone to thank them for saying hi if you didn't want it all to lead elsewhere? It's like something a teenager in a romance movie would do coyly while batting their eyelashes. That message to him in the first place would have had green lights stamped all over it for him to thing he was onto something there. Rightly or wrongly that's how it looks.

He's the ass though, he's in a relationship and is testing you out for a bit on the side.

peppasnemesis Sat 23-Mar-13 06:44:59

Well to me, as I said before it was honestly just because I was getting a lot of crap at the time and he was the only one bothering to make sure he said hello every time he saw me - it's a long story and can't explain any further than that.
It was genuinely innocent on my part.

However - I did try just friendly texting last night, tried to keep the conversation just to how was your day type stuff, and he did actually mention what you said Shnarkle; his words were that in work he just saw me as being friendly, but I wouldn't have sent that first message if I didn't want some form of contact.

There was also a lot of the annoying cliched comments like "what are you doing to me", apparently I'm tying him up in knots, "is it possible to want things you don't want to want...sorry I'm not making much sense am I".
I DID say when he mentioned company that it depended what sort of company he meant; friendship yes but he's in a relationship so anything more wasn't right (then again, he may not have taken that as a no).

I just wish he'd outright say "I want sex with you" so I know 100% and then can say no. And I know that's what you're all saying, but at one point he said something about he was meant to have had something on over in my town last night but hadn't felt like going; but said if he had gone, he'd have asked for my address to have a 'doorstep chat' afterwards (I'd mentioned before that I had a friend that used to come over at random times like midnight, and we'd just stand on the doorstep chatting for hours)... so I asked if he had wanted me to invite him over (just to se what he said) but that if I had, theres no way he'd have got into the house, and he said yes an invite would be good, but preferably not when there's a blizzard.

He keeps making hints about meeting up then making excuses for why he couldn't, even though he hasn't really been asked; so maybe he's just liking the attention (he reckons he's 'lonely') and the idea of meeting up but wouldn't actually ever go through with it?

MidnightMasquerader Sat 23-Mar-13 07:31:02

Come on.

Time for a bit of cop on.

Nobody is this naive/desperate for insincere flattery, are they...? hmm

nkf Sat 23-Mar-13 07:33:29

He sounds a bit cheeky to me. As if he thought you were there for the taking. I don't understand the social networking site bit but I wouldn't give him another thought. On any level.

wrongsideoftheroad Sat 23-Mar-13 07:38:41

Don't give this weirdo your address, will you? Do you really want him rocking up on your doorstep?

Why are you overthinking this so much? The guys a creep. Social convention is preventing him from saying outright "i want a shag". Don't you get that? It's not some great big confusing situation!

Move on!

MidnightMasquerader Sat 23-Mar-13 07:42:43

If he says "I want sex with you" it will scare you off. Why would he do that and ruin his chances?

He knows how to play it - has probably done it often enough before.

The longer he keeps you engaging with him, the better his chances of getting his leg over.

This is why he won't just come out with it, but instead uses ulterior motives...

josiejay Sat 23-Mar-13 07:45:08

I think you've hit the nail on the head when you say you want him to say he wants to have sex with you! Sorry but it very much sounds like you're trying to provoke him into saying it, to massage your ego. This man is not your friend so stop kidding yourself. Imagine how you'd feel if you had a boyfriend and some woman was having these conversations with him. Yes he is an arse because he's in a relationship but you are not an innocent party. STOP contacting him!!

peppasnemesis Sat 23-Mar-13 07:53:06

So you all just drop people if they show the slightest signs that they might be trying to just get their leg over and that's it? What if you think that's what they're doing but you're wrong? Then you've lost a potential decent person from your life for no reason at all.

This is a very respected company we work for, dealing with vulnerable children - so he's CRB'd and is also related to one of the bosses (and no, that's not the reason I'm talking to him!); if he had been for example chatting up every young woman that worked with him (and there are a lot), he'd have got the sack or there would at least be whispers about him.

I'm not desperate for attention/flattery; I can get these bullshit cliches from my ex if I want to...

All I mean, is if he wanted sex then surely he'd make plans to meet? Or try to, anyway.

peppasnemesis Sat 23-Mar-13 07:54:07

And btw yes I am actually like this - I literally can't read people unless they're black and white about things.

Well I can read them; I get 'hunches' about what they're really saying but keep doubting myself.

nkf Sat 23-Mar-13 07:57:37

It's not about dropping people. It's about only engaging closely (ie to the point of stressing over their words) with people who enhance our lives, who we love, like and care for who love, like and care for us. It's about not getting in an emotional pickle about a man who has a girlfriend.

I'm not usually a fan of The Rules but I think you should look at them. You don't seem to have an antennae for these things so brisk guidelines might work. It would stop you chatting online to men in relationships or standing on the doorstep for hours.

MidnightMasquerader Sat 23-Mar-13 07:58:28

Yes, if they show the slightest sign they're trying to get their leg over when they're in a relationship. Doesn't everyone...?

He wouldn't just make plans to meet. It's way to presumptuous and bull-in-a-china-shop. It doesn't work that way.

Again, you are coming across as quite naive.

nkf Sat 23-Mar-13 08:01:18

What's CRB got to do with anything? My ex is CRB checked and he slept with prostitutes. CRB only shows that you don't have a criminal record. It has nothing to do with not being a bit of a shit.

MidnightMasquerader Sat 23-Mar-13 08:01:49

^^

wrongsideoftheroad Sat 23-Mar-13 08:23:47

"This is a very respected company we work for, dealing with vulnerable children - so he's CRB'd and is also related to one of the bosses"

Well my DH doesn't work for a well respected company, isn't CRB checked or related to his boss and yet he wouldn't behave like this slimy shit is.

Why do you care about this guy, honestly? I agree with whoever said it's all a bit of an ego massage to you.

Concentrate on building your own sense of self worth..the fact that some man may or may not want to shag you shouldn't affect you this deeply, it really shouldn't.

peppasnemesis Sat 23-Mar-13 08:28:59

The reason I'm so naive is because I've deliberately kept away from men most of my life (again; long story!) and the only experience I have to draw on is my ex - who DOES just tell me he'll be round for sex when it suits. He's living with someone but swears blind he's not in a relationship with her; just lodging - obviously I don't believe that so don't sleep with him, but I just found it strange that this guy admitted he was in a relationship from the off; and he's not making out like he's unhappy in the relationship or planning to leave - he could've made out he was single and I'd never have known.

Just re-read through the last few texts that were sent last night though and I don't think I was being unclear:

ME: bottom line is; and obv I don't know the details but you're in a relationship so in my mind it's simple - there are only 2 things you could want me for - a text based ego boost sort of thing, ir sex; to put it bluntly. Whether you admit which it is you want is up to you, but obviously I draw my own conclusions. And the reason I'm saying this btw is my ex is a womaniser, so I don't fall for the cliched rubbish he churns out anymore (*was hoping that this guy would realise that meant I'm not falling for his crap too!*).

HIM: Texting is difficult, but face to face could be more dangerous - I'm in a relationship with someone who is ten thousand miles away who I haven't seen for 6 months and not sure when I'm going to get to see her again, but probaly another 6 months. So sometimes I get lonely.
I dont want sympathy I can feel sorry enough for myself at times, but it seems ironic given I'm not Catholic (there is a reason he mentioned that - long story again!) but am I being tempted during Lent?

ME: it's that lonely word again... Look, presumably you love her so do you really think I'm going to seduce you or something? Sorry but not my style. I respect people's relationships - so maybe to save futher complications I should just leave you alone. Oh, and the fact you mentioned coming over earlier on and are now mentioning being 'tempted' seems like you were just teasing, or testing me to see how I'd react.

HIM: No I wasn't teasing and I am caught in a dilemma. You probably should leave me alone...do you want to?
And I would miss the knots you tie me into. I guess I would enjoy the ego boost whether intended or not. Sorry for all the heavy stuff but you did ask.
And I still want to know what you want, what you need.

ME: Did you want me to ask you to come over tonight? To stand outside and talk, nothing else, no coming inside but just have this chat and get it sorted once and for all. I know you wouldn't have come over but was there a bit of you wanting me to ask or would that have been a step too far? And I genuinely meant just a chat, nothing flirty. And were you saying you do want me to leave you alone in your last message? Cos I was a bit confused...

HIM: I want both and yes an invite to stand on your doorstep would be good but preferably not when there is a blizzard. I guess I need you to take a lead sorry.

ME: Basically, all this is, is I was friendly in work, as others are too...and when I messaged you it was maybe a bit flattering. Theres nothing more to it, we couldn't go anywhere apart from at the very most sex; which isn't right as you're not single.

HIM: Yes you were friendly which I may have misconstrued. But there is something different about you, something intriguing...that's just the way you are. I like having these discussions with you.

Sorry, that ended up being more texts than I intended copying out on here! But seeing through all the "you're different" bullshit cos I know that's just vacuous flattery, are you still all thinking the same?

And I did tell hm a few times...he's not single, I'm not into sex with partnered-up people, so he should've got the message right?

peppasnemesis Sat 23-Mar-13 08:31:34

Because that's not why it's bothering me.

It's just I don't like making assumptions of people that might be wrong, and then just cutting them out of my life (because he has been a good...well, colleague, if not friend) without giving them the benefit of the doubt, that's all.

I do still have to work with him for a bit, I've not left the company yet.

nkf Sat 23-Mar-13 08:32:21

Why are you texting him? What is this nonsense? Why are you having long texts "convesations" with a man with a girlfriend? Why are you talking about sex with this man?

This cannot be a good thing. This will not end well. Just stop it!

nkf Sat 23-Mar-13 08:35:15

If you want to send a message that you are not up for anything with him, you need to stop texting him. At the moment, you come over as someone who just needs a bit more bullshit tio be good to go. He's probably got other texting flirts as well.

MidnightMasquerader Sat 23-Mar-13 08:36:38

"... are you still all thinking the same?

Um, yes... Even more so. confused

nkf Sat 23-Mar-13 08:38:35

You are obsessed. Obsessed with him. To the extent you re-read his texts and then post them, asking for close textual analysis from MN posters.

MorrisZapp Sat 23-Mar-13 08:48:23

Yup. If he keeps it up you'll give in and invite him over soon. That's what those texts say.

Squeegle Sat 23-Mar-13 08:55:51

Peppa, you are definitely a bit obsessed. I can say this because I have a tendency to be like this. It never ends well. It can only end well when you can get him out of your head for a while
He's being very disrespectful to you actually, and there is no reason for you to effectively accept this behaviour.

Please have a look at the Baggage Reclaim website. Sounds like no contact with this Mr Unavailable would help you immeasurably. That site has been such an eye opener for me. I cannot praise it highly enough. Look after yourself. Please don't take any nonsense.

BOEUF Sat 23-Mar-13 08:59:48

You have a lot if trouble getting rid of people from your life, by the sound of this and previous threads. You really do need to work on your boundaries. Why is it so terrifying for you to cause somebody a moment's disquiet by not doing exactly what they want?

I felt very sad to read that you still have sex that you don't really want just to placate your unpleasant ex. You do realise how wrong that is, don't you? He is a disrespectful rapey bastard, but you want him around your kids, so he sticks around to keep abusing you.

I wish you would place more value on yourself.

peppasnemesis Sat 23-Mar-13 09:04:31

Ok. Can something that happened to you as a child cause you to act the way I am? I don't feel like I'm accepting behaviour just to...whatever it is you all said I'm doing, and I don't feel like the childhood stuff has affected me (I'm not a quivering wreck etc) but...could it have?

I KNOW what my ex is doing, and deep down I've been thinking that he's an older man with some younger girl who he thinks is coming onto him, very naive and probably a bit dim (in his mind) so he'll get some while he can.
But there was/is just that bit of me hoping that it wasn't the case.

nkf Sat 23-Mar-13 09:08:08

Well, Freud thought so. And the entire therapy/counselling edifice is built on that premise. I think so too for what it's worth.

I think if you have no or weak boundaries, you need rules and guidelines. And one would be you don't have intimate conversations (girlfriends, desires,wants,needs) with a colleague. Another might be you don't talk with men at length via text/FB.

nkf Sat 23-Mar-13 09:09:16

If you just stopped long texts, this would change. As simple as that. Talk to him at work about work.

peppasnemesis Sat 23-Mar-13 09:12:27

True. But then he'll stop talking to me, won't he.

Same as if I stop the ex thing; he'll disappear off the face of the earth.

I think it's those issues I need to work on. Otherwise I'm never going to find people who are actually worth my time (as friends, or otherwise). Assuming those 'decent' people actually exist; because I haven't met any - ever!

nkf Sat 23-Mar-13 09:13:13

If he stops talking to you, that would be the best thing for you. So go for it, I say.

Squeegle Sat 23-Mar-13 09:13:24

I am certain that what happened to us in our childhood hard wires in our brains and causes patterns which are hard but not impossible to break. First step: to understand the patterns
Second step: to work out how you'd like it to be
Third step; to be really self disciplined and stick to self imposed rules
I'm not finding it easy- but it is working, and helping!

Squeegle Sat 23-Mar-13 09:15:15

And yes- agree, if he stops talking to you, what's the worst that can happen? You'll be freed from this awful obsession - after all it's not making you happy is it?

ThingummyBob Sat 23-Mar-13 09:15:42

But you don't have to cut him out of your life if he is a colleaugue.

Just stop engaging in anything other than work related converstaions at work.

I'll be blunt here and say that you are emotionally immature. Also needy as surely everyone you meet in life is not a potential friend confused

He is trying it on with you, whilst making it clear that he is not able to commit to any sort of official relationship. The faraway gf gives him plenty of room to not commit, I woud say that for the 'right' woman for him (as he perceives) the faraway gf would simply disappear.

He is looking for a leg over and see's you as nothing more than that.

nkf Sat 23-Mar-13 09:16:24

The ex thing I've missed on this thread. But I would say:
- if you have no kids, then you don't need to talk to him.
- if you have kids, you need to have a formal arrangement about access and maitenance. And talk to him only about the children.

peppasnemesis Sat 23-Mar-13 09:25:02

nkf - I know. It's me being stupid; he's not interested in the children, not one bit. And me writing letters via a solicitor will be met with unresponse...I 'know' he's not bothered about them, but sort of knowing it officially will be hard to take.

ThingummyBob - didn't mean it quite like that, it's just I do like his personality, we share interests and he's interesting to talk to, intelligent etc. The sort of person you could go for a drink with and not worry about a lull in conversation (whereas a lot of people in my life, female friends included; just want to go out, get plastered and find some random person to sleep with).

He just seemed a bit different.

He does have female friends though; his son used to work with my ex years ago and I know him and his son go walking their dogs with some female friends of theirs (not all at once, lol). He can't have tried it on with all of them otherwise they wouldnt stay friends with him?

So...seeing as I'm seeming emotionally mature - is this obvious to people in RL; like a sign written across my forehead saying "mug"?

MysteriousHamster Sat 23-Mar-13 09:34:46

Just stop texting him. His weird vague messages mean that you are not a friend. You're not talking about anything concrete like work or tv or shared interests. You're just talking about feelingyweeliing-attracty stuff that will eventually lead to meeting up and sex.

If he ends up on your doorstep I suspect you will have a hard time saying no to sex and you will regret it the next day. Or he will make you go further than you want :/

Please just end it. You can still talk to him at work about work. It doesn't have to be acrimonious. Just stop with the late night texting or messaging.

peppasnemesis Sat 23-Mar-13 09:39:36

There's been the odd bit of shared interests/work stuff.

In fact, his opening message to me yesterday was "how did you find it today with the children being home from school all day" (snow) hmm

But I take your point.

Schnarkle Sat 23-Mar-13 09:49:09

You dont actually sleep with your ex so that he will maintain contact with the children do you? I hope I've misread this.

The texts confirm even more an oh woe is me I am torn that I want you but I have someone but I want you and on and on and on from your work colleague.

peppasnemesis Sat 23-Mar-13 09:55:50

No, well I did up until fairly recently because he'd do the "I don't want to be with the woman I'm living with; we're not in a relationship, I pay rent to her...I want to live with you and will move in next week" thing, I'd phone to ask if he was planning on seeing the children and he'd say he'd be round the following morning (while children were at school), but recently I've stopped that because I finally realised he's never going to be with me; and as he was violent/controlling etc anyway, I wouldn't want the children to look up to him, anyway.

I do sort of feel like I'm hanging on this guy to distract myself from communicating with my ex...it's partly that and partly that I do like him. Not in a 'I want to be with him' way but I don't know, there's something 'different' about him, that I noticed the first time I met him; he interests me, that's all.

I'm also sort of curious as to why he's staying in that long distance relationship if he wants to sleep around at home; tempted to ask but I suppose that's none of my business.

ThingummyBob Sat 23-Mar-13 10:00:09

Shared interest is not him asking about kids and snow days OP confused

If he had wanted you as a dog walking buddy that would have been suggested almost immediately you engaged with him at work I'd have thought.

You are analysing conversations which are so bleedin' obviously 'off' and its worrying that you don't seem to see the inappropriateness of it all.

YY to links with things which have happened to you before (relationship with ex/childhood things)

You should cut all contact except at work and then seek some counselling for your own underlying self esteem issues.

You can resolve all this and you will feel better/stronger for it.

Schnarkle Sat 23-Mar-13 10:00:54

He's probaly actually married to her and have 5 kids and a pretty good set up at home. How well do you actually know his background? Who's to say but him that he hasn't seen her for the last 6 months and won't again for another 6?

peppasnemesis Sat 23-Mar-13 10:05:33

He doesn't wear a ring at work?

Other than that...no you're right I don't know him much at all.

However, I did look at a couple of photos on his son's facebook profile and there seems to be photos of him looking 'coupley' (arms round and holding hands) with about 3 different women since 2006 - not sure if that's a bad ratio of women per year or not. That doesnt include the one he's said he's with now as he actually has put a pic of them both on his profile now (after I'd mentioned it was weird, now he's done it).

ArteggsMonkey Sat 23-Mar-13 10:09:13

Cutting through everything else, you haven't made it clear at all that you will not sleep with him while he has a girlfriend. "It wouldn't be right" is not the same as "I don't sleep with attached men", it's more romantic wistful bullshit like "you are tying me in knots" and "I am being tempted"

Cut him out, cut the ex out, find ways to boost your self esteem that don't involve dodgy men. If you can't think of any, get therapy.

CoalDustWoman Sat 23-Mar-13 10:10:19

Are you going to stop the charade of the friends thing? Because it's not true, is it? You wouldn't be doing any of this shit if he were a woman.

Counselling sounds like a great idea.

ThingummyBob Sat 23-Mar-13 10:11:16

Oh dear Op, 'he doesn't wear a ring at work' really shows your naivety sorry.

He may or may not be married. He may or may not have a long distance gf. He may or may not be a lovely chap. he may or may not be a great platonic friend.

Its all irrelevent.

as, I guess, is the advice you receive here

peppasnemesis Sat 23-Mar-13 10:12:13

But in my mind, all I wanted was friendship. That's what I meant.

I'm very happy being single.

Anyway, yes I'll look into counselling or...something.

CoalDustWoman Sat 23-Mar-13 10:14:39

But would you write texts like that to a female friend? What would your reaction be if a female friend texted you in the way he has?

peppasnemesis Sat 23-Mar-13 10:16:14

Well they wouldnt, would they.

It's just because he kept saying he didn't know what he wanted, so i thought maybe he'd realise after a bit that what he wanted was someone to talk to.

CoalDustWoman Sat 23-Mar-13 10:24:45

Really, check out a therapist. The bacp website has a list of ones local to you.

ArteggsMonkey Sat 23-Mar-13 11:56:58

It doesn't matter what he wants, if YOU want someone to talk to, talk to us on here, talk to your other women friends on this social networking malarkey, text one of your women friends. You are an mner, I cannot believe you need 'bonding with women over inconsequential shit 101' here. Are you being honest when you say you are 'happily' single? Because I doubt you would spend so much time shooting the shit with blokes who drop these unsubtle hints if that were so. Busy yourself with women friends until you've got your head on straight.

peppasnemesis Sat 23-Mar-13 12:00:44

I don't want anyone to talk to in 'that' way.
Look, I was just trying to to assume that he was a sleaze like the rest of mankind, or the men in my part of the world, anyway.

But, I'll just cut him off and let him find another toy to play around with.

And yes...100% happily single; I've never been much into relationships and stuff anyway.

aufaniae Sat 23-Mar-13 12:10:55

"It's just because he kept saying he didn't know what he wanted"

This doesn't mean he doesn't know if he wants to be friends or not. It means he is trying to find a way to justify cheating on his partner IMO, and is testing the water with you. It's the star-crossed lovers stuff other posters have mentioned. He knows what he wants, he wants to sleep with you but there is the "complication" of him having a girlfriend (and no morals). He doesn't want to come out and say it as he risks you running a mile and having to admit to himself what an arsehole he is, IMO.

Why are you so hung up on him actually saying he wants to have sex with you? That isn't how it works in real life. He's inferred it several times, but you seem unable to read between the lines.

Forgive me for asking but do you often have problems with interpreting what people mean if they don't actually spell it out for you? Not just in romantic situations, but in life in general?

peppasnemesis Sat 23-Mar-13 12:16:08

Nope. I've got an autistic child but am not myself, if that's what you're hinting at.

I'm not hung up on him saying that, I'm just saying I didn't want to just go assuming he was just after sex in case I was wrong. That's all.

nkf Sat 23-Mar-13 14:01:10

Stop making or trying not to make assumptions about him. He is a colleague. A partnered up colleague. And you shouldn't be talking abour relationships with him. You shouldn't be texting him. I doubt that you are going to stop. And I suspect that this thread has fed your obsession.

Helltotheno Sat 23-Mar-13 15:32:00

Yes pure attention seeking... And the pretending you're all naive and inexperienced is a pita. Do grow up..

AndTheBandPlayedOn Sat 23-Mar-13 16:09:02

Hi Peppa, Another way to look at this dynamic ^could be^:
You posted that guy at work is related to the boss. This pops up a red flag for me. I'm sorry I think this way, but you may be a mark for down sizing.

Having an affair with a guy (who is off the market or not) is going to come across for him as "well, men have needs -look the other way" especially as he is related to the boss. But for you, it will come across as you skanky whore. (AND NO you do not sound like that type of person at all!) But the gossip mills at work can be ruthless.

All he has to do is make a claim of sexual harrassment against you, (and it might be hard for you to find a job after that, putting it mildly). This is why men don't say it in black and white terms, "Will you have sex with me/I want to have sex with you" because with a co-worker, it is sexual harrassment.

Your texts say you don't want to have sex with him, but you said "sex" first and that may work against you. You are already in an emotional affair with him...and sorry to say...actually doing the deed is almost irrelevant. You are in danger regarding office policies already.
You posted at some point that you were not going to be there much longer anyway-I didn't get the details on that; but presume as a single mom, your employment status is pretty important to you and you would need a good reference.

AndTheBandPlayedOn Sat 23-Mar-13 16:10:58

Here is another cliche for you: He is a smooth operator and is playing you like a grand piano. You tell him you don't fall for the crap your ex puts out but then turn around and take the crap off this guy. How ironic. Straight out of Austen, isn't it?

And here is a slap upside the head for you: Do not have him come to your doorstep! Oooooh, he's got to pee, he's got to peeee peeeee peeeeee SO BAD; aren't you going to let him in? And just so you know...letting him in "just to pee" is a no go: when he's in, he's in, and you invited him over.
So somehow he is on your doorstep:
Line him up on the walk and tell him you want to measure how far he can project his wee because that tells so much about "performance" and you can tell right now whether or not you are wasting your time on him. Bullshit the bullshitter. In the ensuing awkward moment, just say "Go away" and close the door on him. Damn his feelings, they are not genuine here, just an act.

By the way, I've been married for 23 years and dh has never worn a wedding ring.

peppasnemesis Sat 23-Mar-13 16:35:10

AndTheBandPlayedOn: Well the bit about downsizing etc., I appreciate your point but not an option. I've sort of tried to change my story slightly - really badly - in case somehow he spots this; but now I've detailed our texts it doesn't really matter! smile

I do like talking to him, whether about relationships/flirty stuff or just general; chat; but I suppose it's not worth effectively whoring myself out for - cos as you've all said; he'll be assuming now that he has a free pass into my knickers sad

MysteriousHamster Sat 23-Mar-13 17:59:32

Men and women can (sometimes) be friends, but in this instance, where he has told you he has a partner but he's waiting for whatever signals from you, it is inappropriate for you to take this further.

Yes obviously he's the bad guy as he's the one with a partner, but you are enabling this. He doesn't just want to be friends, just keep the talk to work and nothing more.

Or admit you'd like to sleep with him and for him to become your boyfriend, and one day you'll be the woman getting cheated on.

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