Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide, which can point you to expert advice and support.
Getting him to properly commit(119 Posts)
Short version is that I have 1ds who is a gorgeous 15 month old and dp also has 2 dds aged 22 and 23. Him and their mum never married. I was not on the scene anywhere near their break up. He says is was a young relationship, he got her pregnant on the 2nd date and he (apparently begrudgingly) stayed with her for 8 years. That's his version. We all get on well. They are lovely girls and are good with ds. Anyway my problem is dps inability to commit to anything! It took him 5 years to agree to having ds1. Now he is the apple of his eye. It will probably take another 5 years to agree to a dc2. He owns his small house outright. I pay monthly bills (half) and buy the majority of the food. So he does ok out of me. But he won't marry (reckons just a piece of paper) and is dragging his heels about putting me and ds in a will so that if he pre deceases me, me and ds will be provided for (and there will be stability for ds so we are not kicked out of the house and essentially on the streets). He is 47 and so older than me as I'm 36. I have invested in the house, spending four grand on a new bathroom, etc etc etc.
I know you might say I went in wit my eyes open, and I should have got this figured put before I moved in, but I was kind of blinded by lust and attraction. Now I feel I've left me and ds pretty vulnerable. I wish now I had followed the rules or something and had no sex before marriage, but he wouldn't have stayed around I reckon.
How can I get him to marry or at least write a will protecting ds in his family home while he grows up? My dp is all talk and no action over anything! Even to the point of taking about home improvements and chores but not doing them...
Bollocks to the 'just a piece of paper' crap for a start. Marriage would be a convenient solution but, if he's dragging his heels, then I don't think that's going to happen. What you can and should be doing, however, is talking to solicitors and formalising your financial, inheritance and property claims. Make the appointments, start the ball rolling, get the documents drawn up, and then tell him he either signs or you walk.... serious as that. He's not going to do anything unless he has to.
Cogito, thanks for that... We had an initial advice session with a very nice solicitor and so now all he needs to do is sign. So you think and ultimatum? Problem is he reacts strongly against them, and I'd have to be prepared to follow through and walk if nothing is done, which is pretty scarey......
Don't waste your time.
He's not committed to you, that's why he won't show you any commitment.
He doesn't even want you to get his house after he dies, but he's happy for you to "invest" in it.
So he'll take thousands of pounds off you, but will give nothing back.
You were a fool to spend 5 years begging him to allow you to have a child.
And you'll be an even bigger one if you don't wake up and smell the indifference.
Yes I know I was a fool but I am where I am. Also I don't want to rip ds away from his daddy. They get on so well.
When you saw the solicitor, was it just for a will?
Have you discussed ownership of the house? As you are not married, if you split up you are not automatically entitled to anything other than maintenance for DS. Bear that in mind when deciding whether to issue an ultimatum - you might want to wait until you have some idea of how you would manage on your own.
He already has two grown-up children and a toddler. He's not having another child. And I can't blame him, mind you.
You might want to tell him that he should include you in his will and you will include him in your will. If you are the mother of his child, he is the father of your child, after all.
He sounds like the only person he is committed to is himself. He's not going to change, are you happy to stick with someone who treats your needs so lightly? If he loved you, he would genuinely care about what might happen to you, and his son, if he were to die, and he would want to sort it out.
Just because you've made your bed doesn't mean you have to keep lying in it.
Also, you do realise that he may want to leave at least part of his house to his other children.
You need to seek finance
You are very vulnerable
Not just if he dies but if he decided to trade you in for a newer model
All he will be obliged to do is pay child maintenance
You have been very, very foolish and are now forced to negotiate from a position of weakness
I suggest you seek legal advice pretty damn quick, and not just about a will
I'm sure this man would react strongly against an ultimatum but you've handed him over way too much power to him as it is. Think you have realised this but you cannot yourself further compound the string of errors already made.
Do his other children see or actually think very much of him?. I also think their mother's versions of events would be rather different to his own. He does not seem at all like a fine example of a father figure for your son now to possibly emulate.
I doubt very much he'll sign anything actually and he certainly won't marry you; his default position re yourself is for you to put up and shut up.
An ultimatum can only be issued once and once uttered needs to be seen through to the letter. It loses all its power otherwise.
What do you get out of this relationship now?.
"Also I don't want to rip ds away from his daddy. They get on so well. "
You have to find some kind of leverage. Some way to hold his feet to the fire. If you think threats to leave would be met with 'fine, close the door on your way out'.... or if you feel some kind of obligation to excuse his behaviour just because you have a child... then you've got no negotiating position and no power. Which a selfish man will continue to exploit to his advantage.
He's a 47 year old man. He is not going to change. You can't make him do anything. And let's face it, an 'ultimatum' is just plain manipulation.
Talk to him. Explain your fears and what you need. And have a time limit. But you have to be prepared to walk away. There is no such thing in this country as a 'Common Law' wife. Stop contributing to the house. I notice that although you pay lots of bills, you don't pay rent, as this would potentially give you a hold on the house (disclaimer - I am not a lawyer so could be wrong). This says to me that he is entirely happy with this situation. If you leave, as AnyFucker says, all you will get is what you can cajole from the CSA. You have made yourself vulnerable, but you don't have to remain that way. Do you work? Do you have any family that can help?
really struggling with why you would want him though
The trouble with an ultimatum is that you have to be ready to follow it through.
I'd also ask myself that if he's prepared to walk away from you and his DC rather than sign a will then is he really a person you want to be spending the rest of your life with?
If a marriage certificate is just a peice of paper, then it shouldn't bother him to actually just go and do it - that statement works both ways, a quickie with 2 whitnessess would take no time and little money!
Hate to say it but I don't think a 2nd child is on his agenda at all.
He's 47 - so could be 48-49 by the time new baby arrives (if you start trying now!) - he'll be well into his 60's when child is a teenager. Not something I'd want, I know that for sure.
I want to be chilled out and retiring at that age not dealing with a stroppy teenager.
You need to decide what YOU want from a relationship.
If it's more children and more commitment, I think you to go find that elsewhere!
Bells bells, he is a young 47 if that's possible. He has said he would have another. Interesting to see if he follows through (two psychics have told me I will have 2 dcs if you put any store in that). We both work part time. When he's in work I have ds and vice versa, so he is hands on. I kind of feel damned if I do and damed if I don't. I don't want to leave and get a massive mortgage on my own (or even a small one) stick ds in daycare and work all the hours god sends. I don't want to leave and go back to parents tail between legs, and to be honest it's not that bad living here. I have a great parenty social circle and a fab family centre. I just want more commitment..... So perhaps I explain my needs and give him a deadline of 1 month to do this, or I start planning a seller ate future from him. Sorry, I can't just walk out.... That would upset everything....
P.s. advice with solicitor suggested I have a life interest in the house and after I pass it is divided 3 ways to the dcs. There is also an issue that if I needed to move to find work after dp dies to support ds, how would that work with the house. Perhaps I could rent it out and use the income to live elsewhere. Nothing in life is garunteed. I would just like him to make this commitment so I don't feel like the biggest mug in town.
I wouldn't waste my time, if he cannot commit I would make clear I was out
Yes Attila but out where exactly. I have £6000 savings, a baby and 3 dogs. Can't rent with dogs and 6k won't get you a mortgage.....
Yes Attila but out where exactly. I have £6000 savings, a baby and 3 dogs. Can't rent with dogs and 6k won't get you a mortgage.....
The solicitors plan is sound.
Presumably your dps daughters also have a mum to inherit from? Your ds is in much worse position. Your dps daughter will be entitled to 50% each of their mums estate, 33% each of your dps estate, and your son only 33% of his fathers, and nothing from you as you have nothing. Just a part time job.
And if he passes without having signed this very reasonable proposition, you and his son will be homeless, and his daughters own 2/3 of the house. Unless you can afford to buy them out?
What do you plan to do?
Does your dp find it fair that the situation is like this? Clearly he does, as he is not showing any commitment towards you and your child together.
I think the way you need to approach it with him, is your need to actually get on the property ladder and buy a house for yourself and your son as you are both in a very vulnerable position.
You have just handed over savings that could have gone towards your deposit for a home on upgrading his bathroom. How does that make you feel?
I know you dont want to put your child in day care and work full time. But you need to wake up and smell the coffee. Not sure you have the luxury of working part time in your circumstances! Assumably your dp will still work part time, so can be with his child on days you work? I think you need to start looking after yourself and your interests, because your dp is not going to!
You dont necessarily have to leave him, but get a full time job and start saving!
Sounds like you just have to stick it out and hope that things improve or you're in a better position to live without him. I wouldn't advocate having another child with him though - then you'll really be stuck.
Just saw your last post.
Look for full time work. Start saving. Be prepared to leave your 3 dogs behind at some point. And if you dont think you can get "a career" maybe part time study together with your part time job?
Also you need to start paying something towards the mortgage so you can demonstrate your contribution.
Given that he has been divorced, I dont blame him tbh.
What everyone is failing to mention is he has nothing to gain and everything to lose if you ever ask for a divorce.
If you 2 ever get divorced he will lose half of the house, meaning his girls would also lose out too.
You have to bring something to the table.
You cant expect to live rent free because you don't want to pay for a mortgage.
Why dont you use your saving, buy a place and rent it out.
Much better for everyone involved.
Bet you once you have your own house he would be more willing to get married.
That is an option arsenal. He would give me the 4k back if it came to that. So I would have 10k perhaps to get a deposit on a tiny cottage to rent out.
Re the poster that said be prepared to leave my dogs..... Never!!!!!
I'm an attachment parent and think its pretty important to be around dp whilst he's small. Working full time is not an option for me. My job is pretty good. I have a phd and work in middle management in a Uni, but I've got burn out to be honest...
Op at a minimum, get the 4K back and put it into your savings, then work towards buying yourself a property. If you're not going to leave, that's the option available to you.
What do you mean you have burnout? Now would not be a good time to leave your job...
Right. YOu need to stop paying bills and groceries right away. I did this, and council tax too I think. I eventually left with nothing. Of course. Funny that! I knew I was in a vulnerable position. But I didn't see what else I could have done. Now I realise that instead of trying to get him to marry me, I should have made sure I looked after myself. I should have spent the money I was spending on his household on my own flat or savings. I should have told him, you aren't obliged to look after me, but if you won't, I will look after me so I've no money left for your house. You are raising his kids? if you split up pursue him for maintenance. fucker. Sorry. Have been totally screwed over by a man like this. He was so determined not to lose his assets that he lost a family.
If you dont want to leave your dogs, you need to ensure you can buy a small cottage with a garden so you are not dependent on a landlord saying "no pets please".
Contributing to the mortgage won't necessarily make one whit of difference as they are not married, and all that counts is legal title.
In the event of death, DS stands to inherit a share of the estate (under intestacy rules) or whatever is willed to him (will could be challenged if provision unfair, but this is protracted and outcome uncertain). OP would only get what was willed to her, and nothing in the event of intestacy.
If they split up, OP can count on child maintenance only. She might be able to secure an order permitting her to stay in the house with DS until he reaches majority, but again this is uncertain.
Rather than contributing to the mortgage the op is better off getting on the property ladder herself!
lightsand, just read through this thread, some brilliant sage advice btw, and, you don,t sound at all happy with this man.
If you married in the morning, I think you,d be gone at some point anyway.
I really hope things work out for you.
As you've said he owns his small house outright, it would seem there is no mortgage for you to contribute to but, even if there were, any contributions you make would count for very little unless you were jointly named on it.
As he didn't marry the dm of his older dc, it seems you can safely take it this man is not the marrying kind and IMO he would be ill-advised to make a will which would favour you and his ds above his older dc without benefit of independent advice from a solicitor who is not also acting for you in this matter.
Your financial concerns appear to be more for yourself and your dogs than for your ds and I find it singularly mercenary that you've already thought ahead to working out the implication of a having life interest in his house should you wish to move/work elsewhere.
Have you willed any part of your £6000 to him should you predecease him, or have you left it in trust to your ds and/or your dogs?
As it stands, should his df die intestate your ds will inherit one third of his estate which you will no doubt be charged with administering if this sad event occurs before he attains his majority and I suggest you content yourself with this and set about working to make yourself financially independent of any male.
You can rent with pets. It's just a longer game to find somewhere which will accept. But with £6k behind you that shouldn't be so much of an issue.
Well, if I were him I wouldn't get married either, especially at a marry me or I'll leave type ultimatum.
And as you both work part time and share child care, if you separated wouldn't the care be shared?
'There is also an issue that if I needed to move to find work after dp dies to support ds, how would that work with the house. Perhaps I could rent it out and use the income to live elsewhere'
He's 47 not 97. He could live for 50 years yet.
If I were him I'd check the brakes on my car.
Get rid of the dogs. Blunt but they're bloody expensive to look after. Your son is 15months not weeks, you should get a full time job and if you work at a uni usually there's an onsite nursery for staff and students
Coffe1sugar, you are obviously not a pet owner and since when was a 15 month old fully independent. Sorry I didn't wait this long to have a child to give him to someone else to look after. Everyone else, thank you for your wise advice
My dd was 16months when I went back to full time work. Put him in nursery like the thousands of other parents who have to
I sympathise OP but I think Coffee1's point is that you are increasing your level of dependence and insecurity. That's your choice, of course, but you should be fully aware of the implications of your choices.
So you need to work through the worst case scenarios, which I think a probably three-fold:
- your DP decides he no longer wants to be with you and asks you to leave the house. What do you do then?
- your DP becomes unable to work through ill-health and thus dependent on your income. What do you do then?
- your DP dies with no will in place. The will's executor will need to be able to provide fairly for the three main beneficiaries and I'm guessing this will involve selling the house in order to split the proceeds. There are ways this can be avoided, such as giving you a life interest in the property, but he has to be willing to do this and he doesn't seem to want to give you a life interest in anything right now, frankly.
Get yourself some legal advice and plan your next steps carefully. I don't think you can have everything you want in this situation unless you are prepared to take some significant risks - certainly more risk than I would feel comfortable taking as the parent of a small child. Good luck.
what makes you feel so vulnerable? Do you not feel he loves you?
Whats wrong with cohabiting?
I've always been of the opinion that you can't make or force people to commit. If they want to, they will.
if he married you under duress, that would be awful.
You begged him for 5 years to have a child he didnt really want to have, and are lucky that now they are very close. Hes sorted, hes got his own place long before you came along, I really dont see why he should put you on his will if he didnt want to and you dont want to work.
You went into this with your eyes open. Im assuming youve got somewhere to live for your money
Anybody who has assets who be an absolute mug to get married, in this case DP has his cake and is eating it so why risk having to give it ALL up in the event of divorce?
I was in your situation OP but fortunately bought a house jointly with xp so he bought me out when we split. He refused to marry me or sign a parental responsibility agreement for DS (what a prince!) and already had 3 kids with a previous partner.
I consulted a solicitor when pregnant with DS and she said make sure you contribute towards the mortgage, don't just pay bills. This is a common mistake women make and it leaves even married women in a vulnerable position.
Having said all that, if you are happy with your situation on a day to day basis then I'd stay put and build up your funds as others have suggested.
I suspect though that this isn't the only thing that's wrong in your relationship. In my case it was just the outward sign of xp's total lack of caring for me and DS. He never for a minute took his eye off the bottom line, whereas I was clouded with love, fear and the desire to do the right thing. What a mug!
Surely he has everything to lose financially if you marry. You could leave him and either try to make him leave his home or make him sell up and be unable to buy another place with his share. If I were the mother of his two elder children I would not want you to have a life interest in the property as you aren't even 15 years older than his eldest, so they are not likely to inherit at any time in their life that they can make good use of it. I think he would be happier if you take steps towards increasing your hours of work in a few years and aim to buy somewhere that you own and then rent it out to help with the mortgage.
If OP does get him to marry is she automatically entitled to part of the house though, even though his ownership of it pre-dates their relationship?
OP - sorry you are having to go through this. It must not be very nice for you. Generally speaking most men wouldn't want to see their partner and child left with nothing or nowhere to live if the worst happened. As long as he isn't looking after your financial interests, you need to look after them yourself.
A little rental property would make you feel a lot more secure and would get you financial stability. Why not suggest it? If your man doesn't want to marry (or share ownership of the house with you) he surely can't be so unreasonable as to not see that you and DS need some security and therefore anything he can do to help with that he should (ie paying back the £4K, and taking over all the bills for a while).
Personally I would go for the cheapest you can afford in the most bearable area with the highest rental yield:
THe cheapest you can afford because you should try to save a little too- not plough all you have in the property.
The most bearable area because often bargains are found in the less than best areas, -but in the event you need to live there you won't be terrified!
And the highest rental yield - a modest terrace costing say £90K in some areas will still rent out for £450-£500 per CM than say a nicer 3 bed semi costing £160K renting out for the same money.
I really think you should look into the finances of buying somewhere of your own. Even a 1 bed flat.
Good luck x
90k for a terrace?! (gobsmacked) where?! £380k for two bed terraces where I am!
"Coffe1sugar, you are obviously not a pet owner and since when was a 15 month old fully independent. Sorry I didn't wait this long to have a child to give him to someone else to look after. "
And yet you despair that you have ownership of nothing. You are choosing to not work full time, and spend a lot of money on dogs.
I have changed my mind. You are absolutely best off sponging off your partner so you can support a lifestyle of luxury. To most people, no less than 3 dogs and only part time work is a luxury they cant afford! His home-ownership allows you to do this.
Is the 50% (actually sounds like more, with food?) proportionate to your income? If not, make it so immediately.
Get your £4K back. In all honesty, and sorry to be harsh - but what in earth were you thinking of?! He has no mortgage, can afford to work part time - if he/you want a new bathroom in HIS house, let him pay for it.
Obviously that horse has bolted, but don't do similar again.
Do you actually want to be with him? It doesn't much sound like you do.
I'm not really of the opinion that you should automatically get half of a house he paid for - though having a child does make that com
You have a job, you have enough savings for a rental deposit / emergency. You don't sound like you actually want to be with him.
I'd talk to a solicitor and gear up to leave, tbh.
You can't make him commit.
I'm with Izzyizin and PureQuintessence on this. I think you are mercenary and looking for a free meal ticket. I don't see why you can't have bought your own little rental property before now, since you are getting free accommodation (OK, you pay some bills, but everyone else has to pay bills too...). I don't see why you think the luxury of working part-time is essential when you are in such an insecure position, or why you didn't think about getting married before you had DS, or establishing a career, or any of those "normal, boring" things that people think about before having children.
You have no security in your life and its your own fault. You need to take security over your own consequences by getting a full time job and career or at least getting onto the property market.
I don't see why your DP should put your DS onto a will. Plenty of children don't expect to inherit, and your DS is only 18 months old.
You shouldn't "get" a man to marry you. A man should want to marry you. I didn't see anywhere in your post the word "love" in relation to this man. Your post is all about money
Did you post previously about wanting to get your partner to add you onto the title deeds of his house?
We had an initial advice session with a very nice solicitor and so now all he needs to do is sign. So you think and ultimatum? Problem is he reacts strongly against them
I don't want to be unduly harsh, and am really trying to bite back my words here. But theres something about all of this that makes me kind of sick. You really, really want your hands on this man's house, don't you? You are coming across as a golddigger, certainly so to women like me who have always paid their own way through life.
I stand by my earlier point. Why won't you get a full time job? I wish I could have stayed home with my dd longer but by the time she was 16mo I needed to go back to work. You know, to pay MY mortgage?! Sounds like you're a bit of a gold digger, no mention of love for this guy, just trying to get quids in on his estate. His daughters and ds come first, not you.
If I owned my own home outright and a DP wanted me to put them on the deeds I'd tell them that I would consider it in exchange for half of the value of the house.
What are you bringing to the party?
Sounds an equal split in terms of bills, work and childcare.
You seem like a bit of a gold digger and I think you've posted about this before. Unwilling to work more and buy your own place, you want it all on a plate and then some.
Cant comment on your relationship, but use your money to save for your own place either rented or hopefully bought. dont have another child with him. would b harder to work. you d b more tied to him . nightmare. move on. i like dogs but u cant revolve your life around three dogs. make the decision u would make if u didnt have dogs, and then work around that.
I think comments were a little harsh here. u r the one in a vulnerable position when u spkit. but would rather split in your shoes than marry a man who doesnt want u (but lets u pay half the bills) . He's alright if u split up! you have to look after u. i learnt this lesson the hard way.
I agree, comments have probably been a bit harsh OP, because the things you've described could be construed as gold digging. I'd be more concerned that you seem to be coasting a bit... not fully willing to fund your own life just because you have a child with someone who is fully independent. He's under no obligation to commit to you OP.
You never came back about the work thing, where you said you were 'burned out'. Surely you're not insinuating that you want to give up work altogether?!
It sounds like you have a good job and, if anything, should be looking to get back to full time (to something related but different if you're bored); after all, your DP will still be in a position to do a fair amount of childcare, whether you stay together or not, so you're in a better position than most. That way, you could earn more money to purchase yourself some independence.
I won't comment much on the dogs except to say that your lifestyle doesn't suggest that having a restriction of, not one, but three dogs is a good thing for you right now. To say you can't rent a place due to having dogs is a cop out imo.
I think women are their own worst enemies when they call other women Gds. also what gold digger buys 99% of the food and spends 4k on their dps bathroom and more elsewhere. I have painted the whole house at my own cost, redecorated dss room, etc. a mug perhaps, gold digger no way. I am simply trying to create some stability for ds and I. I moved here out of love. I'm not afraid of mortgages and owned my own house before for many years.
Re burned out, I mean I might want to change direction work wise. To the poster who said why haven't I developed a career- I have and a very good one, got a phd and worked at a grade 8 in a uni for 15 years. I'm just not prepared to put work before my son and stick him in a nursery. Sorry if that offends anyone. He will go when he's older for social reasons, but not yet.
I think the person who said you can't have it all is right. Feminism has made us think we can, but we end up doing it all too. I think I'm going to live frugally, accept I am lucky to have this set up, realise this is slightly higher risk, but I allows me more life choices for now.
Oh and I should of said, 2 digs are mine1 is dps - I'm not dime weirdo fog collector!
Helloto have you ever tried to rent with pets???? Not a cop out, reality I'm afraid. Around here anyway it's impossible,
Sorry auto correct again. I meant to say I'm not some weirdo dog collector !
Coffee1 I could bat that back to you and say why did YOU have kids if you knew you had a big mortgage to pay off? It's not nice to criticise other people's life choices.
Not a big mortgage actually and none now at all BECAUSE I went back to work I now own my house outright and aged 25 im pretty damn proud of myself. Even more do because now I most certainly have stability for my daughter
what on earth do you want THREE dogs for?
Ahh, you're only 25. That explains why your perspective. Come back in ten years love, when life has knocked you around a bit. You won't be so self satisfied then. People like you make me want to vomit,
Oh and I'm off to spend oodles of quality time with my son thank you truly to the constructive people you've given me plenty of ideas to think about.. Not so to the oh so predictable split up, work more, leave your dogs and hand your son over to a stranger to bring up brigade. Ironically, you've made me feel soon blessed with what I do have.
"People like you make me want to vomit," How extremely rude!
Did you mean to sound like a patronizing cow?
Seems like you could do with life knocking some sense into you!
What were you looking for OP? Someone to suggest you give your dp rohypnol and force him to sign papers while he's out?
Sheesh, why did you bother posting???!!!
lightandshapes, I agree with you. You're not a good digger, not when you're paying all those bills. BUT I do think you're at a difficult cross roads. You 've known deep down he doesn't really love you or want to marry you for a long time. If anything you've been a bit of a sucker paying his bills, feathering a nest which does not and will never belong to you. Time to accept the harsh truths and start spending your money and your time on your own nest. And as for the job, hopefully you can work part time?
Well she had it coming tbh. When someone else is rude to me I'm rude back. And she was most certainly rude.
Thanks shroedinger, you talk a lot of sense x
'I'm just not prepared to put work before my son and stick him in a nursery. Sorry if that offends anyone. He will go when he's older for social reasons, but not yet'.
Then you are stuck being a mug. He will not change, he can't be manipulated into doing so, and you are vulnerable as all fuck. Your only real option is stop paying for all the food if you're not willing to work FT and get shot of all those dogs.
'Ahh, you're only 25. That explains why your perspective. Come back in ten years love, when life has knocked you around a bit. You won't be so self satisfied then.'
I'm 42, but even at 31 there's no way I'd have been such a mug.
I don't think she was rude. She gave her perspective, based on what you have said on the thread, and how you come across.
OP I don't think feminism is the point here. You want a set of things which are not compatible. If you want to take some risks to see if it will somehow come together down the line, that's your choice, but most of the advice you have had here has been suggesting ways to minimise or mitigate your risk.
OP the only person who has been rude here is you.
You are a fool to leave yourself so vulnerable, an utter fool. You think he wouldn't have stuck around if you had insisted on marriage? And yet you still had a child with him? Oh dear, not the most positive image of a relationship to give your son, is it?
stop paying for food?? why?
she lives there.
ahem, calling someone a gold digger is rude in my book PQ, call me old fashioned. I cant imagine her ever having the guts to call someone it to their faces. She would get a slap. Rude!
I am aware that I know nothing about these people who are so critical of my life choices. It sounds lke we have a load of stepford wives on here who have their husbands under their thumbs and everything smelling of roses. I very much doubt this is the case. It has made me realise the limitations of advice on here, so I'm off to talk to some NON JUDGEMENTAL professionals.
Bye and good luck with your
Well, I do have a husband who I didn't have to beg to marry me or give me babies, and I joint own our house and business and assets.
I think your situation sounds awful, but you've only yourself to blame for that.
And the 'gold digger' was more a statement of fact than an insult given what you've written.
well bully for you alibaba..... now its just your sense of empathy and common humanity you need to work on! you sound lovely to be around -NOT! And you could be called a gold digger too dear - boasting about your assets - I have no interest in those.....
Why don't you ask him to put the house to be spilt between all the dcs ( not you) should anything happen? There should be a trustee in place to protect the money for your ds until he is of age.
Then ask for your 4k, and put it with your savings to buy a property to rent.
If your day to day life is fine, then I don't see a problem. Getting married wont give you half anyway, not if he has made a will without your knowledge leaving it to his children, and his pension rights etc.
He doesn't sound the marrying kind. Some people aren't. If he is still with you and loves you it's fine and you have more than some married people.
I've plenty of empathy - but you have walked into your situation with your eyes wide open, what did you think was going to happen?
You need to look to your own financial security, seeing as your DP obviously isn't going to share his with you.
Making provision for your son is different, your DP should be looking to do that alongside providing for his older daughters.
And you criticise me for being "just 25" (I have a masters degree and I own a house. Yes I must be immature ) and yet you're a decade older than me saying "she'd get a slap", very mature.
I am interested in how you managed to pay off a mortgage by 25, get trhrough uni and fund a masters degree. Did your mum and dad help or are you a stripper / escort??? <grin>.
Respect to you but there's no need to call me a gold digger when you dont even know me. I wanted to get things legally in place so I could fund an extension so we could have a table and chairs so ds could eat his dinner from a table. That is hardly gold digging. I would have chosen a man with a much bigger house.
The problem is you don't know me so you've created an incorrect picture in your head.
Thanks lavender honey day to day life is great, hence no real push factor.....
Alibaba, I mentioned the 'eyes wide open' thing in my original post. Yawn......
Sounds like you could do better Op. Seriously, get your 4k back, raise your standards and get rid of the pooches...
How can I get him to marry or at least write a will protecting ds in his family home while he grows up?
I'd say you are better off focussing on the latter at first.
Absolutely nobody can accuse you of gold digging for trying to secure financial protection for your son.
But there are plenty of reasons, some of them valid, some not so valid, for him not to get married.
I think I would start by trying to reduce my contributions to the running of the household, if I were you. If he won't marry you, then you need to start taking steps to get your own financial stability, as he already has his house. If he objects, point out that you are already behind where you should be after spending the four grand on the bathroom.
If he is not signing this will he is presumably not happy about it and being a bit of a coward about saying why. If your relationship is not good enough to have a calm conversation about what is making him not wanting to sign this, that's not great. Forget ultimatums, try to have a calm, rational conversation about this. If marriage is just a piece of paper to him, it is a piece of paper that gives you financial rights so I'd be wanting to know why he does not want you to have them.
I would agree that your priority should be to make sure that there is provision for your DS in the will and that would include being able to stay in the house until adulthood if something untoward should happen to your DP as of course it would be dreadful to lose a father and then have to move. If you can afford it, maybe get the person who drafted this will to put down in writing for DP the implications for his DS if he does not sign.
I am not sure why people are saying you should get the 4k back, you presumably benefit from the nice bathroom and live rent free there and have done always? Doesn't seem to me unreasonable that you paid this. Don't continue to invest in the house though unless he signs a percentage over to you I'd say though. With a tenants in common rather than joint tenancy arrangement, you can own any percentage you agree on.
As for bills, if it is really true that you pay the majority and nothing is being missed out, then do your sums and definitely reduce your contribution to 50% so that you can begin saving.
[following is my opinion and not financial advice] I don't think that the advice to buy somewhere to rent out as an investment is good advice at the moment. Property prices are only rising in a few areas of the country and you could easily be buying into a falling asset unless you can afford to buy somewhere very desirable. Also, if you had hassles with a tenant then that's a lot of profit wiped off. I'd be using up my ISA allowances, split between a cash ISA and a medium risk shares ISA, if you really want to be invested in property, then an ISA that tracks the property market is possible. Doesn't sound like you can afford to invest the full amount of an ISA even a year at the moment.
Meanwhile, you sound pretty frustrated with him as a whole. Whether he is just someone who can't be bothered with reality or he is actually trying to find an exit from your relationship, only you can know...
I must admit. I have enjoyed the robust discussion. I have realised the is no point waiting for dp to magically change and I must set about doing things for me and ds...... I can't tell you how long it has taken me to realise this. Last night he said..... When are you going to put togethr a planning application for a house extension. I said I am not doing anything until you update your will. I would be a mug to put an extension on a house I do not own. You are not going to change and so I am from now on going to start planing a financial future for ds and I. He said, you say that so many times..... I realise how manipulative he can be with words. It is quite shocking really.
Well done for saying that to him now you just have to get on and do it!
Certainly discuss with him the future ie, house in all 3 dc names - he should do that otherwise point out the legal costs to all if he doesn't. Then let him get on with it.
If you do decide to buy to let, moneysupermarket for what you can borrow, then look outside your area if you have to for financial reasons. The nearest university or hospital town in a good apartment block - don't forget it's not you living in it. You won't have to be there at all. It will be insured anyway. If there is a problem, then most tenants are happy to arrange a plumber or whatever at a time to suit them. My fridge broke down once and I arranged the collection of the old/ delivery of the new all online. 'twas easy, for me and the tenant.
Keep all receipts as you will need to use them on your tax return if you buy something. Tax returns are easy to fill in online, I promise! Plus there are loads of mn sections to help you!
Great advice lavender honey thank you. I asked my boss if I could go full time in November (he hasn't come back to me yet) however it is ripping my emotions apart. I am really shite at the working mum thing (my mum was a Sahm mum and it's all I've known)..... Perhaps pmt right now ain't helping.
P.s. do I need a specific buy to let mortgage if I go ahead with that???
I don't have a husband. I have a partner and we are perfectly commited and I have no intention of forcing anyone to marry me.
Yes you do need a buy to let mortgage - and you will probably need about a 30% deposit.
I think the other posters are right - you need to focus on making yourself financially independent. Pay for only half of the running costs of the house, make sure you save the difference, and scrimp and save like mad to buy yourself an investment property. You can get a studio or a 1 bed flat somewhere, for less than a house - if it's in a uni area you can rent it out fairly easily (maybe near where you are as you work in a uni). And make sure he doesn't pay ANYTHING towards the property (make sure the repayment of £4,000 is clearly a repayment, and not an investment into your property).
Yes?, buy to let will suit you as you will just pay the interest, nt capital and interest. If you look at the area you might buy, look at flat rentals ( remembering they are normally beaten down) to see what rentals are. Your rental is offset against tax on the mortgage interest when you do a tax return.
Your rental should cover your monthly mortgage payment.
Then you can look on money supermarket and do the mortgage calculations- look on rightmove at property and see what you need. Don't forget legal fees.
Look at websites, blogs etc and get information. Read the financial papers and understand about money. Just keep at it if you are not used to it, it will fall into place. Understand how it works.
Sorry about your pnd. Don't you have friends who work? Not everyone is a sahm- and you need to get out when your ds is at school. Work will be good. One day you might own loads of properties .
On the subject of the 4k , he should pay it by cheque or transfer into your account now- not when you need it and then directly to the bank or solicitor. Get him to do it now, before there is no money as its all gone on an extension...
Great advice from DIY btw.
lightsandshapes - I understand the situation around the dogs. I have one and would rather live in the streets than give up my dog. I have rented properties when having a dog, and although I've had to pay a slightly higher deposit and limited the amount of properties, it has not been impossible. I have lived in a few different cities across the country, and it's never been a problem. Lots of properties say "no pets" but when you contact the estate agent and offer a higher deposit it's usually not a big problem.
In terms of the house, I think purchasing a BTL would be a great idea. Get your 4k back and your half way to a great deposit. I live in one of the most expensive places in UK to live but you can still pick up flats/2 bed terraces with a 15k - 20k deposit. Doesn't have to be somewhere amazing, just a back up plan for yourself and your DC should anything go wrong in your relationship. It's also a great investment for your DC and yourself in the future, to fund uni costs etc.
It's clear you don't want to send your child to a nursery. I have to say that I myself was not put into a nursery but my sisters were. The difference in social skills they had to my own when we the same age made me wish my parents had forked out on me going too. I know you want to spend time with DC and that very much is your choice. But I think there are many benefits for your DC to go to nursery and learn to be sociable with other children and a structured learning day,
You perhaps need to decide whether you want a career and a higher income that will allow you to purchase your own property (not necessarily to move out, but a BTL to safeguard your future. You can always remortgage to a residential mortgage if you want to move in yourself) or whether you want to keep the status quo (which means uncertainty for your future if anything goes wrong with your relationship as potentially you could struggle to rent with 3 dogs) and spend time with your DC.
I understand your partner's reluctance to marry as he has a lot to lose and nothing to gain by getting married. What I would be more worried about is why he doesn't want another child (would you be happy if he said no?) and how whether you're willing to stay if he refuses another?
Best of luck!
You need to stop being miffed and getting a hump when people want to give you sensible advice.
I have had far too much wine now to be able to talk sensibky aboyut byt o let mortgages and rental investm,ents.
Nowhere in any of your posts do you mention being in love with this man, having any consideration for his thoughts and feelings, etc...
Anyway, most mortgage lenders who do buy to let will require you to have your own, or joint property that you live in first. Its not exactly hard to find this out by googling buy to let mortgages or the main buy to let mortgage lenders. Since you have a phd, I'm surprised if you were genuinely interested, you haven't done so already.
Perhaps in real life you are a lovely genuine person but on here you have come across as money oriented and have been abusive to posters who don't agree with you. You must surely realise that most women who have been to university generally go for the sort of relationship where they are equals with their partner and see nothing wrong with paying their own way in life, even if they choose not to work after having DCs, at least for a little while. I would think mumsnet has a far higher than average number of SAHMs, as many women in work won't have time to post. Even so, people have been pointing out to you its better to be self supporting if you possibly can. You have the benefit of a lengthy education - what was the point in getting that phd? What example are you setting to your DC if you under-achieve and expect others to prop you up financially?
Your post just drives home what a hassle and a strain organising your life in this way must be. Working and getting your own mortgage is so much easier - I am the same age as you and it was easier to buy property then. I think if I hadn't done that, I'd be doing everything I could now to stay in a secure job and buy my own place. This man would be a fool to sign over the rights in his property to you, and he sounds about as willing as a lamb being led to slaughter. Would it not be easier to start again and try to find a man that loves you and wants to marry you, instead of trying to force an unwilling one into it? Its undignified. Your various posts on here make you sound so unhappy and terribly insecure and frightened of the future.
As for your costs. If you have paid half the bills, you would have had to pay your own bills anyway if living in your own place. Extra food for one person isn't that much, certainly not as much as paying rent or a mortgage for your own place. Even 5 years at £400 a month rent would be worth a saving of around £20,000 on your part, so even if you live in Scotland, I can hardly think that you have been economically disadvantaged and can make some claim beyond child maintenance. I don't feel that sorry for you though, since unlike many other women, you do have a good job and education.
If this man is really considering signing the agreement you have drawn up, he really needs to get independent legal advice, otherwise it risks being challengable on grounds similar to undue influence or coercion, depending on the exact situation.
I do mention I moved in for love if you retread les missabs.....
If you read the battle for motherhood, you will see why high achieving lifestyles and motherhood don't go well together.... Actually put you at a disadvantage......
less missabs. I don't have a phd in buy to let mortgages you know....
Cop out OP. Working full time does not necessarily = high flyer. People work for many different reasons. You have this very odd idea about childcare. If you're not prepared to do anything to change your life, put up or shut up basically. This guy is under no obligation to you.
Sorry helltotheno.... I don't quite understand your post..... I never said anything about equating full time work with being a high flyer (confused).
What I meant was those like me that spend ages building a career have kids late, have less time to build a family etc. etc.
So what is stopping you going back to your career, and put your child in nursery, like so many other people who need to support themselves? Why can you not do that?
Pq I have not left my career. I am part time. Read 'how not to fu&k them up' by Oliver James and you will know why I am not happy with the nursery idea. Also 'the continuum concept' I've researched it well, but I won't rehearse all the arguments here.
Only read this tread quickly. But like all people, there are plenty of immature older men who shirk 'dealing' with stuff. I should know,I have one. he;s early 50s, I'm in my 40s. We both have kids by earlier relationships. But I went through hell to get thro a divorce from my now ex. My partner is still married but seperated from his missus, seems unable to sort that one out. His place is constantly 'under renovation', but never done. I did give up last year and bought MY place, which is MINE. In everyone else's eyes I should walk away. And I have tried dating other people. One week he tells me he doesn't want more commitment, he never wants to get married again. The next week he wants to sell his place and we move in together....It is like a ping pong match. But I love him, he makes me laugh like noone else ever has, I feel loved, wanted and protected, my child adores him, so I can't let it go. So I do sympathise. It doesn't always come down tologic in relationships sadly.But you do need to cover yourself from risk as much as possible OP.
So many obstacles to doing anything but getting men to pay for women once they have had children according to you OP, its a wonder anyone manages it at all!
OP there are plenty of women here with grown children who are anything but fucked up and who worked full time. I really hope you can say you're offering your child the rolls royce of parenting because ime parents are capable of fucking things up much worse than childcare is!!
Hoopy sounds to me like you have the ideal thing at the moment.. don't rush to change it. Tell him you don't want him moving in thanks
God, the world is full of men who want it all (and women too) but wont be married. Its awful if you want it and he doesn't.
There is no such thing as a common law wife, if you split, you're likely entitled to a big fat nothing from the house! The fact that you are paying bills and running costs will not mean that you are automatically entitled to some share of any equity he might have.
You need to look up the rules of dying without a will.
If he's not prepared to marry, ask him to go to a solicitor and you too and have some sort of trust set up so you do own a share of his property equity or ask him to make you a joint owner.
Go and make mirror wills, ask him to put your son in the will.
If he sees a long term partner but not for marrying then he will do this in a flash or as long as it takes to find a solicitor.
If he doesn't want to, then, you know immediately where you stand and dont waste anymore time.
Or you could stay there knowing that if anything happened to his health or he died, then he wouldn't provide for you and your son. You could go on hoping that one day he is will see that marriage is for him. It depends if that would niggle.
Go to a lawyer who knows their stuff on co-habitation and a property lawyer.
Bah - The Continuum Concept indeed. Op you're not a Yequana Indian and you don't live in the bloody rainforest. There is no interdependent community to help you either, more to the point.
You need to look honestly at your real life and either accept things the way they are or do something to change them.
As for Oliver James - wonder who was devoting all their time and energy to bringing up his children while he wrote about the evils of putting children into childcare
There is more than one way to raise a child you know. As long as parents are reasonably consistent, loving, and supportive and the child receives a decent enough level of physical care, most kids turn out just fine.
I really do find this Western obsession with overly prescriptive child rearing practices peculiarly neurotic. Just feed 'em, clothe 'em, hug 'em and show an interest - that's good enough man!
all the above said by me, i feel for you, i really do. i can imagine the desire to have a child and your love for P sort of taking precedence over the legal issues that would have been in the background. Its a very hard place and you need to get deciding.
Putting the financials to one side, your question was how to get him to commit. You can't get him to do anything. But you can be clear and honest to him in what you want and get a response from him. Unfortunately if that isn't what you want to hear it will be tough in all sorts of ways. Get yourself prepared (lots of advice places for women or a GOOD CAB).
I couldn't live with the endless lack of commitment so I told mine I wanted to get married again (bear in mind he is still married tho seperated). He's playing the 'why is it important' card. I'm letting it lie for a week. But I'm not under your pressure. But is does just hurt your feelings and cloud your judgement unfortunately.
Helltotheno - thanks. don@t worry after 5 years on my own I really dont need a man's dirty knickers on the bathroom floor.....
OP, sorry for being another to lay it on thick about the financial side. You sound like an intelligent lady and I think you know about the money side already hence why you mentioned solicitors yourself.
i think you need to have a really serious chat about marriage.
I had a serious chat to my partner when I was pregnant and i let it lie for a while (we jointly owned our home before I was preg) and chatted again when our DC was about 6 months old. No pressure or ultimatum from me and he said he wanted to really marry me and wanted to spend the rest of his life. Id have loved it if he's proposed without a couple of chats and I think I would have eventually left if it wasn't going to happen but I could never truly know.
OP, I reckon you should enjoy your present lifestyle for the time being and be prepared to be on your own with DS eventually. With no house and just what the CSA says a man on part-time earnings should be paying for a child. (I'd guess this will be in about 3 or 4 years' time, as he left his daughter's mother when the eldest was 4 or 5. Has he ever had a relationship of more than 8 years' duration?)
Hoopypoopy this sounds sooooo familiar x
Fuckitthatl do..... Hehe you're right, it's not easily translated into the west..... You have a point. Like to think of myself as back to nature girl but yeh, communities here are a little different! I have followed the core ideas of cosleeping etc and he is such a happy, confident, joyful little boy that it must work on some level. This is all the more important as he had such a traumatic start to life, spent 10 days in an incubator etc.
But yeah, I'm sure we can be over prescriptive About our choices .
Catsndogs thanks for your posts, really helpful stuff to think about...
Hoopypoopy you're so right that logic doesn't always come into these things. I k we I wanted a ds with dp when I first met him 10 years ago..... Odd how these things transpire! It's the person you go for isn't it? Then later you think of all the 'practical stuff'.
Babies are all different - you could have a second, do the exact same things, and they could turn out to be a complete opposite of your son. Obviously you care deeply for him but so do working mums and their kids turn out all right - honest guv.
You can't be sensitive about what people are say to you, and then turn around and essentially say nurseries definitely fuck you up. My son is in nursery three days a week and he loves it. He adores being home with mum and dad too, but there's things he's learnt from us that they couldn't teach and vice versa.
Anyway... your partner sounds like a man who won't change and doesn't care too much about what you want unless he wants it too. You can do better. Best of luck moving on, if you can.
Join the discussion
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Register now
Already registered with Mumsnet? Log in to leave your comment or alternatively, sign in with Facebook or Google.
Please login first.