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Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships....can it be 18?

(1000 Posts)
foolonthehill Fri 08-Mar-13 22:19:03

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans – He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out – You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change…please don’t give him the link…print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Cheers Fool!

Hissy Fri 08-Mar-13 22:28:05

Jaysus, 18? Already?

How time flies.... coming of age already...


BreatheandFlyAway Fri 08-Mar-13 22:37:28

Fool thanks wine [choc] smile

Just heard a strange loud whirring, was wondering (somewhat frightened) what this unexplained loud noise was (being a little nervy tonight!), looked round and it was a ladybird stuck on its back, whirring round, wings out, madly making an amazingly huge noise! I tipped it gently up the right way and it's now sitting still in a slightly shocked state, wiggling its legs - if it was a cat, I'd swear it was washing its paws embarrassedly grin

BreatheandFlyAway Fri 08-Mar-13 22:38:25

I've looked closer and it is - it's washing its front legs!

BreatheandFlyAway Fri 08-Mar-13 22:39:07


NoraLuca Fri 08-Mar-13 23:07:38

<wanders shyly into thread and says hi>

I do hope that everyone is OK... I don't have the internet (or a computer!) at home yet so can't follow the thread like I used to. I keep thinking about people who are stuck in bad situations with no support. At least we all have some access to the internet smile

Everything fine here, H is being very nice since I left (a month ago already!) and I stay over with the DDs sometimes because they won't stay overnight on their own. I wonder if I shouldn't just bite the bullet and leave them with him overnight but then I remember how scary he can be, and although he doesn't target the DDs they saw how he was with me and that is prob why they are wary. They are happy to stay with him for the day, and I think step by step is the way to go.

minkembra Fri 08-Mar-13 23:19:31

fool thanks
can't believe the last one filled up so quickly!

FairyFi Fri 08-Mar-13 23:21:05


CharlotteCollinsislost Fri 08-Mar-13 23:22:18

Hi Nora, glad things are going well.

Have finally found a webpage (erm, not actually one of the links above but on the same website! blush ) that gives a layman's checklist for narcissism. 20 questions - if you answer yes to 5 or more, he's prob got narcissistic tendencies, ten or more probably NPD. I said yes to 15...

minkembra Fri 08-Mar-13 23:26:39

charlotte Do you know, I have often wished that fw would suddenly discover he's gay - a) gets him out of my hair and b) he'd be so bloody gutted, the homophobic twat


i was idling wishing I were a lesbian this morning. it would make the prospect of a new partner less daunting. Sadly as a friend pointed out I do like the cock<Sigh> (she wasn't talking about my ex at the time wink)

snowshapes Fri 08-Mar-13 23:44:23

Charlotte, I have been reading about narcissism as well this evening. Which website are you looking at? It is depressing though. I am trying to remember when I saw him genuinely look joyful.

Following that, I realised that whenever we had a row about relationship issues, it came down to the fact that I had changed. I was not the person I used to be. Like the real snowshapes had been taken by one who he didn't like any more, who was irrational and aggressive and why didn't I just sort out whatever my problem was. The point at which I changed was moveable, sometimes a year ago, sometimes two but it was always 'you have changed, I don't understand you any more' followed by sad shake of head and return to newspaper.

Ha, it worked, I believed it was me.

Anyway, enough introspection. Don't get the Mr Bloom thing hmm but then I am sworn off men forever more.

snowshapes Sat 09-Mar-13 00:06:34

Sorry, rudely forgot to say thanks for new thread and hi to Nora. Love and strength to all.

TisILeclerc Sat 09-Mar-13 00:12:40

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ponygirlcurtis Sat 09-Mar-13 00:17:24

Happy 18th... thanks
Thanks fool, as always <star emoticon>

Wow, Nora, a month already. And never mind how nice FW is being - how are you feeling?

Mink - you is v funny! grin And so are you Breathe. (ps Breathe, your FW is a FW. You are fab. That is all.)

Soooo, Charlotte - are you going to tell him this weekend? Do it!!!!

snowshapes - each to their own, if Mr Bloom and his v lovely veggies are not for you - what about Andy or Sid? Both make watching Cbeebies bearable!

Night all. Fingers crossed for a quiet night for us all (for me, that means no shouting from snot-boy!).

ponygirlcurtis Sat 09-Mar-13 00:19:10

Leclerc, Dr Ranj prescribes bed with a little spritz of lavender on your pillow for deep sleep (and a little dab on the temples). Have a warm drink and get some rest, lovely lady. Thinking bout you.

FairyFi Sat 09-Mar-13 00:27:01

sounds like you had a really full-on rollercoaster of a day tis ... time to turn the light off?

bit run out of steam myself.. but sending warm wishes to all..xx

ponygirlcurtis Sat 09-Mar-13 00:29:06

Sending good vibes to you too Fi. See y'all tomorrow.

TisILeclerc Sat 09-Mar-13 00:54:20

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FairyFi Sat 09-Mar-13 01:05:32

not surprised tis

had tirin day myself, but just lying here watching a bit of comic relief, not good at watching the tragedy but been some good 'turns' loved Eddi Izzard..

thanks Pony and hope you get some kippage in (with snot-boy around wink )

oh Charlotte ! big steps! thinking of you xx

hi Nora Fly Hissy


MaggieOnTheSofa Sat 09-Mar-13 02:23:11

Flaming nora!! I've been offline for a few days and its a new thread already! Thanks as always Fool you are amazeballs!

Sorry I've not read the last half of last thread, hope everyone is ok and I haven't missed anything major???

In other news, I seem to have processed the power of greyskull and turned into shera! Wednesday I went to see solicitors, thursday I went to view another house and....put a holding payment on it! Scared but hoping landlord won't pull out as have got this far now and referencing etc come back ok. Its available end of this month so will hopefully get in just before this welfare reform starts. FW feels further detaching going on I think and has stepped up his random manic searching of house for clues, usual boozing shite, threats towards me, threats of suicide etc and then when sober usual FWerty, groping etc. He announced tonight he loved us all and that included me and he wants the 'whole package' this speech was delievered to me and DS in the half hour he was home to get changed to go out boozing. Arsehole. Going to stay at my parents all of next week and will then have to come back home to be around to sign house forms etc etc. Baby steps seem to be turning into giant steps. Really scared and just praying nothing goes wrong with house arrangements or its back to square one :-/ scared too of his final reaction but have solicitor on speed dial so things can be put in place straight away when the time comes. Wish I could fast forward the next 6 months or so :-/

Really hope you are all ok and sorry not been very supportive lately. I could never have got to the stage I'm at now without knowing you are all here. Love you all! x

cathyscarlett Sat 09-Mar-13 03:43:26

Has anyone else found it extremely hard to trust in a new relationship after emotional abuse?

I've been single for almost four years after leaving my abusive boyfriend and have just recently got into a new relationship. I'm finding it extremely difficult not to over analyze everything and compare everything by new bf does to what my ex did.

I'm hyper sensitive to anything that could be construed as abusive and I don't know whether I'm right or whether I'm just being defensive and looking too much into everything in a desperate attempt not to end up in another abusive relationship.

arthriticfingers Sat 09-Mar-13 06:47:38

thanks Fool as ever.
Maggie that is amazing! smile

TisILeclerc Sat 09-Mar-13 06:47:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

snowshapes Sat 09-Mar-13 07:47:05

Ah, I sounded really dismissive Mr B didn't I? I am probably just too old for him, or he is too young for me.

Maggie, fab news, fingers crossed you are out soon.

Had better get on, will reply properly later, toddler carnage

minkembra Sat 09-Mar-13 08:06:36

Maggie grin good much with house and hope it all goes as smoothly as it can.

Cathy not got there yet but i already have my watch list in my head so i am guessing if tgeur time comes I will be the same. the constant vigilance must be tiring. hope he turns out to be a good 'un. smile

minkembra Sat 09-Mar-13 08:07:58

Sorry my phone has unilaterally decided tgeur is a word and uses it at all possible opportunities.tgeur=the

minkembra Sat 09-Mar-13 08:09:06

Argh ^ ^ good luck not good much.

TisILeclerc Sat 09-Mar-13 08:10:44

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bountyicecream Sat 09-Mar-13 09:42:21

Hi all and thanks fool. Found my way here.

Maggie - that is fantastic. Massive respect at all you've achieved. I also am certain that I would not have made it this far without the help, support and reassurance I've had off here.

Nora - Glad you're happy. It is you survivors that let me dream that I might make it.

Leclerc - sleep deprivation is a killer but things will get better.

Charlotte - you sound way more determined. Keep going

Cathy - I don't know the answer as I'm still here. Will be a long time before i date I'm sure. Is it anything specific or just general unease? Could you post examples here?

At the start of thread 17 I said by the end I would have seen a solicitor. Well that seemed impossible at the time. I haven't actually seen one but I do have my first app for next week. And I have told my nana everything too! So this threads resolution is to have told h that I want a divorce by the end. Seems impossible but my last lot of fairy steps got me to the solicitor!

Hope everyone is well. Hi to mink, breathe, nini, bertie and everyone else I've forgotten (not intentionally)

bountyicecream Sat 09-Mar-13 09:45:23

Matchsticks, hissy, fi, pony .... Sorry forgot loads perhaps better than forgetting just one Now really hoping not forgotten anyone else!

bountyicecream Sat 09-Mar-13 09:51:54

Ooh and snowshapes too makes a mental note NEVER to list everyone again. Sadly there are too many of us to remember

MrsMorton Sat 09-Mar-13 10:09:12

bounty and I said I would have found a counsellor and I have so well done us.
I fucked up and turned into a FW myself last night and now life is even worse. H doesn't like me texting anyone and he doesn't like my friend so I was secretly texting her and he found me and now he won't speak to me. I know I should have just done it not secretly but I didn't and now I'm obviously having an affair.

ponygirlcurtis Sat 09-Mar-13 10:13:51

bounty grin - I've done that too, I always miss someone and then feel rotten! I like your thread resolution idea, very motivating. You are doing great.

Maggie!!!!!! Am v excited for you. Am sending superhero marine-type vibes your way.

MrsM - that really is not you being a FW. You were doing something perfectly reasonable, the fact that he doesn't like you doing it is his problem not yours. It just makes him more of a FW, that you are reduced to contacting a friend in secret. It's not good. sad

How you feeling today Leclerc?

bountyicecream Sat 09-Mar-13 10:19:30

Well done us mrsm! It shows things are changing slowly even if it doesn't seem that way.

My h once accused me of having an affair. I'm not sure he really thought that but it was a good way of controlling me at work because instead of staying for 15 mins to chat to the girls I'd rush home to give him no cause for complaint. Ironically I later found out that he was cheating on me even at that time.

Sometimes a silent fw is the best kind. Are you still thinking your relationship can be saved or are you looking for a way out? If so it doesn't really matter if he thinks you're cheating

bountyicecream Sat 09-Mar-13 10:21:36

And as pony says only a fw would forbid us from texting friends probably those that are on to him and will give us the best support

FairyFi Sat 09-Mar-13 10:44:01

Oh Maggie you are amazeballs!

Same here Cathy and I have heard it can be for some like learning to have a relationship all over again. Just take it v slow! I think if you are having some warning signs tho they are worth bringing here to get some feedback on?

grrr Mink to gaslighting phone!

Bounty guilty mind see! [your FW] always the way, cheating himself so thinks you must be... stupid FW

good weekedn vibes to all xx

BreatheandFlyAway Sat 09-Mar-13 11:37:31

Phone lost my post again. But it was saying Maggie I am so very glad for you and so happy you are finally escaping. Well done lovely lady. Xxx

Am crashing here so off to get some air into my fogged brain and try and shake off the pain.

Dropped dd off at fw's this morning. She wouldn't sleep there with ds last night and wasn't all that keen on going today. I don't think anything specific has happened, she just prefers bring with me. I have ordered some feelings flashcards to see if it will help her to articulate how she's feeling.
FW still asks me what I'm going to do when they're with him, if anyone's phoned me etc. He really can't bear the loss of control. Whenever I tell him I can do what I like now, he makes a big show of 'not being bothered what you do' when all the evidence points to the contrary.
Still waiting to hear from my solicitor as to whether his Acknowledgment has been sent to court yet.

Meant to say I'm so pleased things are progressing for you maggie
Cathy I don't feel like I will ever trust a man again and would be very wary in a new relationship.
Leclerc how are the dc? Hope the illness has gone from your household.
Bounty, giving yourself a target to focus you seems a good idea.
breathe hope fw hasn't bothered you and that you are safe.
Bertie let the countdown commence! Champagne on the first fw-free night I'd say.
eternalrose are you ok?
Wave to everyone I've missed.

Dillie Sat 09-Mar-13 12:14:58

Morning ladies. Another thread! I can't keep up grin

I can't remember who said it on the other thread, but my fw also said that aggression and arguments are normal. It is me that is abnormal to want peace in my life! He was basing it on his best mates relationship with his wife and they are always arguing. Thing is I have lost count the number of times his best mate has said he has had enough!

I too have been accused of having affairs, so like bounty I would rush home or not bother going out. When I leave he is adamant that I will move in with my best friend as according to him we are having some sort of lesbian affair! My friend says we should just do that for a short while just to wind him up! grin

breathe hope you manage to defog your brain. I crashed yesterday, phoned my friend in tears, and she insisted I went around to help babysit her 3 year old niece. Cheered me up no end. Have you got somewhere/someone to go to, even just for a brew?

I have found my anthem too by Kassidy. Take a listen its meaningful without being too close to the heart, and its a good sing along too (video is a little odd though!)

Apologies if I am not allowed to link!

Take care all x

Bertiebassett Sat 09-Mar-13 12:46:59

Blimey these threads are moving so fast these days!

Thanks Silver, Pony, LeClerc, and everybody else for all the good wishes! I'm counting down the days now until FW leaves...and also making big plans about how I'm going to make this house MY house smile
I'm sort of hoping he DOES take all the I can start again with things that are to MY taste not his...

But I'm trying to be mindful of my feelings at the moment. I'm still very up and down.

Obviously I'm over the fucking moon pleased that he's FINALLY going...but I still get very tearful when I think about how he's treated me and will probably continue to treat me while I still have to have contact with him (for the next 13 years shock).

Just this week he called me paranoid, demanding, and abusive...because I stood up to him and refused to back down over something. I KNOW I'm none of things but it really destroys me inside to be called them. I have to stop being so sensitive!

I hope you lovely ladies are all ok? I feel terrible that I've lost track of everyone's progress over the past couple of months. Could do with an update post from you all! smile

Hissy Sat 09-Mar-13 13:05:16

They call you the names that most hurt or scare THEM.

Watch how they visibly FLINCH when you use their own words back at them.

Seriously, you feel the power right away. You can almost understand the addiction they have for control!

Bertiebassett Sat 09-Mar-13 15:17:56

Hissy I know that you're right...but I still struggle with this!

TisILeclerc Sat 09-Mar-13 16:02:14

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ponygirlcurtis Sat 09-Mar-13 16:20:07

Fantastic Leclerc grin. That will make so much of a difference to how you are feeling.

minkembra Sat 09-Mar-13 17:21:35

tis grin

Ex turned up late for his 3 hours with kids. did not speak to me at all which was fine but despite telling me by email he hates me etc. bought mothers day daffs. (this is typical of him- he is all about the tradition and gestures and not about the meaning and there is no requirement to be consistent e.g. would insist everyone has a dram with him at hogmanay because it is traditional but would not give a Feck if you actually had a good new year)

then told the kids he'd love to see them more hmm well why doesn't he? I'm not stopping him.

Far be it from me to guess what goes on in him head. kids a but unsettled and dt1 keeps saying she wants to see him everyday. (if she did that would be first time in their life as they often went 3 or 4 days without setting eyes on him and on several occasions he left for a week or so and they never even noticed.)

Still minimal stress for me. will see if a) he turns up for parents night(dreading it) b) gets in touch to arrange another time to see them or if he really is going to leave it a whole month out of spite.

Loving the thread resolutions.

Hoping eternal is ok. She seemed quite low before.

Bertie the end is in sight. Putting it behind you will be hard work but some day, soon I hope, it will all be much better and you will have a new FW free life.

ponygirlcurtis Sat 09-Mar-13 19:47:00

mink, he shouldn't be saying that to the kids, that was solely designed for them to think that it's your doing that they only see him for three hours a week! Eejit.

Another one thinking of EternalRose. Hope you're doing ok, chick.

minkembra Sat 09-Mar-13 20:12:28

pony well i am evil and when chatting to his mum who phoned to thank them for mothers day card he got for her from them. I said 'it was nice he saw the kids today. of course, he is working next Saturday but can always have them at another time if he wants'

minkembra Sat 09-Mar-13 20:13:27

^ ^ just casually and in a conversational way of course.

ponygirlcurtis Sat 09-Mar-13 20:24:46

Haha mink! But that's not evil, that's just... conversation! Evil would have been telling her (and the kids) that he can't be bothered to see them more than three hours per week and generally slagging him off. But you haven't done that. maybe you should

Having a brew and thinking about you all this evening.

FW has managed to piss me off tonight. Raced back from seeing a friend to get to his for 5. Usual time I go to get them. Nobody there. He'd said he wasn't going to go anywhere with them as it was bad weather. Rang him and he was at a pub with soft play miles away with his sister and reckoned I don't normally collect them til 6.30 at weekends.
Then I was annoyed as ds would fall asleep in his car and have to be transferred all grumpy to mine and sleep in his clothes so as not to unleash the beast of a tantrum getting him into his pjs.
Managed this at 7pm. FW then tells me to let him know what we are doing tomorrow. Told him we are going to my mum's as it is sodding Mother's Day. He'd been telling the dc in a stage whisper all week they had cards to sort out.
So I told him I assumed he'd not done the cards. Cue him looking a bit pissed off with himself and telling me they'd not had chance ( in all morning dd says). Then asks me if I want to take the cards and have dd write them at mine. DD is 5. No I don't bloody well want to sit and spell out her message for me for a card that's FOR me! FFS, all he had to do was get them to write in a bloody card.
My DM will have assumed he will have fucked it up though and will probably have sorted something for the dc to give me when I get to hers.

CharlotteCollinsislost Sat 09-Mar-13 20:44:31

snowshapes - I was looking at this site.

Maggie - it's lovely to hear from you, and fantastic to hear your news. So hope the house comes through with no problems. Sending lots of strength your way (if I could!).

Bertie - forgot to say, that's great news - you're so close now!

CharlotteCollinsislost Sat 09-Mar-13 21:01:07

Match - how annoying!

FW is home. He managed to behave like a normal person for two hours or so. Then the dcs and I went for a long walk and he went out too and by the time we next saw him, he'd turned into Mr Hyde again. I could actually observe the behaviour and see it as abusive rather than just brainless, which might be a first - he would say something and I'd realise I couldn't imagine him saying similar to anyone else. And I could see the malign intentions behind what he said.

So I'm very grateful to him for all that! He's now locked himself away in his study to work, as has lots to do apparently, so I'm looking forward to a quiet evening emailing my mum to make up for not sending anything this year and then hoping to tell him tomorrow evening.

Hissy Sat 09-Mar-13 21:02:16

Bertie, Thinking realistically, honestly and kindly to yourself takes practice.

Until then? Fake it till you make it. Whenever an unkind word is hurled at us, STOP. just think, I am NOT wrong, bad, weak, stupid, paranoid, abusive, mean, frigid, loose... I am NONE of these things. THEY ARE though! That's why they say it. To them it's the worst thing they can say, it's THEIR fears.

So the reply is NO response, no protestation, nothing. It's npt about YOU, never was...

But you know that already if you've read your Lundy! smile

snowshapes Sat 09-Mar-13 21:08:47

Thanks, Charlotte. Wow, it is tick, tick, tick all the way. Just reading the ten steps to recovery, number 5 about money, so true.

Anyway, he never did believe in Mother's Day, so nothing lost there. Had good fun this evening making a chocolate cake with DC for tomorrow with Abba on, and no-one sweeping up the flour around me. Just hope weather reasonable so we can get out and about. Oh, and I bought some flowers for myself too. Sorted.

Good wishes to everyone, hope EternalRose is okay too, maybe hard for her to get online, but agree she sounded in a bad place. I hope she is okay.

snowshapes Sat 09-Mar-13 21:15:08

Oh and was thinking about Cathy's question earlier. Be aware of the warning signs and listen to your gut. And without sounding woo, value yourself, does he respect you, in actions, not just words?
Agree about posting any questionable behaviour for feedback, but hope he is good for you.

TisILeclerc Sat 09-Mar-13 22:01:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsMorton Sat 09-Mar-13 22:18:57

Help please

I posted earlier that H saw me secretly texting last night, he's hardly spoken all day and said earlier when I was talking about the chickens "I don't want to male too many plans for the future".

And now I'm scared, he's just gone to bed and I'm scared to go to bed. I don't know what to do, this has thrown me so much. It wasn't meant to go like this. Don't get me wrong, if he left then that would solve many issues but I'm scared now. I dont want to get into bed for him to start on me... sad I know I shouldn't have been secretly texting, it's so hard.
FFS, I've been reduced to this...

minkembra Sat 09-Mar-13 22:33:49

mrsM responding to your post but don't really know what to say. can you sleep on the couch? Is your gut telling you he is going to be argumentative or physically dangerous?

He is being wicked making ominous remarks like that to unnerve you. sad

minkembra Sat 09-Mar-13 22:34:24

Thinking of you and wishing i had some sensible advice.

MrsMorton Sat 09-Mar-13 22:43:36

Just argumentative, he's in bed but texted me to say "getting all your texting in now are you, sometimes I think you even believe your own lies"
"you lie like a cheap watch"

I think I might sleep on the sofa, sad if he wasn't so controlling then I wouldn't have been secretive in the first place.

He just stormed downstairs and demanded to see my phone and asked why I wasn't in bed. I want to leave, I have work in the morning so I can't because I have no transport of my own.

minkembra Sat 09-Mar-13 23:01:30

mrsM in that case sleep downstairs if you will get more peace. hope you get some sleep. i hate getting wound up before bed. sad

FairyFi Sat 09-Mar-13 23:01:41

thinking of you all, and especially thoughts for your actions tomorrow charlotte xx

minkembra Sat 09-Mar-13 23:02:15

And soon hopefully it will be over for the better.

Dillie Sat 09-Mar-13 23:13:36

mrsm I would stay on the sofa tonight. Is there anywhere you can be after work tomorrow?

Charlotte hope tomorrow goes well.

Have a good night all x

TisILeclerc Sat 09-Mar-13 23:15:00

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

minkembra Sat 09-Mar-13 23:22:13

charlotte sending you bravery and strength. Look to the future smile

cathyscarlett Sun 10-Mar-13 02:32:28

Apologies for any delay in replying.

I’m 99% sure he hasn’t done anything wrong. I mean, he doesn’t care/mind who I go out with, when I go out, how long I’m out, why I’m out etc. And I don’t mean that he doesn’t care in a negative, couldn’t give a damn way, but more that he’s unconcerned because he trusts me and it isn’t really anything to concern himself about, which is such a novelty and had been making me think I had done the right thing in allowing myself to be in a relationship again after all these years. He hadn’t portrayed one sign of the old, controlling, abusive behaviour I had been on the lookout for.

The only thing that raises my concern happened very recently. On Monday we had a huge argument. This was the first major argument we’ve had. I can’t remember if I mentioned earlier but we’ve been together four monthsish. The argument was about absolutely nothing. Stupid things like did he want me to stay over that night? Was he sure? He sounded like he couldn’t really care less what I did? (This was all my unreasonableness, said purely because I wanted him to reassure me he did want me to stay, when really his “if you want to stay I’m happy with that, if you want to go home fair enough” should have been more than enough. But it wasn’t, because I see issues where there aren’t any.)

Anyway it spiralled out of control and resulted in him dropping me off at home and me leaving the car with a (again unreasonable and unnecessary) shout that he shouldn’t contact me again because he clearly didn’t care (I had asked and demanded for hours that he took me home, I was awful and nasty to him, almost pushing him into it, and then I was distraught when he went through with it. And I don’t know why I have to push him away whilst simultaneously pushing for him to not let me go. I know it isn’t okay. I feel like/know I’m talking my anger at my ex boyfriend out on him.)

Ten minutes after I’d got back into the house he had rang (we’d been exchanging angry texts for these ten minutes) and said he wanted nothing more than to come and give me a cuddle and take me back to his (btw, cross communication had led him to think I wanted to go home, and he hadn’t realised I hadn’t and he wanted to go back to his, but I had adamantly demanded to be taken home. Again, misdirected anger).

So anyway, I asked him to come back to mine. This was about 8pm. I got showered and dressed, and sat downstairs waiting. He said he’d be twenty minutes. By 10pm he still wasn’t there. I had been ringing him off the hook since 9, partly concerned he’d had an accident, but mostly aware he’d just stood me up. At 10 I gave up hope of him coming and showered, and went to bed at 11. I text then just asking him to let me know he was okay, because if not I was going to get a taxi to his to make sure he was okay. He text back ‘don’t’. I tried ringing again then, and his phone went straight through to answer phone, clearly switched off. Though he has said his phone died at this point.

He rang me at about midnight. Said he’d just got home and charged his phone. I asked if he wanted to stay together, he said he didn’t know. It killed me. And it annoyed me that it did, because I had swore I wouldn’t care about someone enough to let it hurt me again.

On Tuesday I text asking what we were doing. No reply. I’m ashamed to say I bombarded him with texts asking what was going on. I just needed to know. He said he needed to talk but didn’t want to do so via text. He finally rang, said he didn’t want to leave me but needed to talk and I thought everything was okay. Oh, I should mention at this point he was going away for 10 days on the Thursday.

I asked him if he wanted to see me on the Tuesday. He said yes. Great. We’ll sort it out. I go to a quiz every Tuesday with my friend and felt like I wasn’t prepared to cancel that, because I was scared that once you start cancelling with your friends…

So I was meant to see him at half five, go for dinner with him, sort things out and meet my friends at about half 8. He text at 5ish saying he wasn’t going to get away in time so couldn’t go out. Fine, I thought, I felt still in absolute turmoil (like I did almost every day with my ex) but it couldn’t be helped.
Next day I emailed asking if he wanted to do something. Email back acknowledging mine, but no response to whether he wanted to go out. I normally go out with a friend every Wednesday but due to him going away on the Thursday, and me wanting some peace of mind, I was okay with cancelling on my friend for that night only.

He was meant to finish at 5. I knew he was at an important meeting though so when he still hadn’t rang by 6 I thought it had over ran. At half 6 I gave him a ring. He answered. Said he didn’t know what time he’d be finished. I asked if he wanted to see me that night to have this ‘talk’ so I knew what was happening. He said he probably wouldn’t. Later he said that was because he wasn’t sure what time he’d finish work and wanted me to feel free to go out with my friend. I lost my temper, said he clearly didn’t care what he was doing to me etc. Asked if he wanted to finish, he said maybe we should. I asked if that’s what he wanted. He said yes.

Anyway, about half an hour later he rang back, said he’d finished work and I asked him to come over to talk about it. He did. Said he ‘didn’t want to finish with me’. But still no word on whether he was actually going to. (he said the previous statement that he wanted to finish was just spur of the moment, and not wanting to ‘hurt’ me by leaving me hanging for a week while he was away.)

We went to the local bar and I asked him several times why he was in two minds about finishing etc. he said he didn’t know, that he was ‘inside his own head’, and didn’t ‘know why he was doing this’. Eventually I told him I wasn’t happy to sit there and wait for him to make a decision, and that I was going to walk away. At which point he snapped back into his normal self, took me for some food, bought a dvd, we went back to his and had a lovely night.

I don’t know whether the warning sirens should be blasting as loudly in my head as they are. It’s literally the first thing he’s done like this since we got together. It’s really unlike him and I’m baffled as to why he’s been like this, and he seems genuinely repentant and sorry. And I know I have done things wrong in taking my anger out on him when really it should be directed at my ex.

I’ve told him it seems like he’s doing the same as my ex, ie. Threatening to break up with me to make me panic and feel like I did, and therefore exerting control. He gets understandably offended why I make the comparison, because he says he isn’t an abuser.

I don’t know what to think. Am I just hypersensitive.

Thank you to anyone who had made it this far. Apologies for the mammoth post. Once I started typing I just couldn’t stop. Sorry.

cathyscarlett Sun 10-Mar-13 02:39:58

That sounds so awfully pathetic with no background to it. My ex used to, amongst other, perhaps worse, things, threaten to break up with me on regular occasion, so I eventually agreed and done everything he said to try and stop him doing so. My current boyfriend knows about the abuse, though obviously it's hard to comprehend if it hasn't happened to you yourself.

It's also exceedingly difficult to explain, as demonstrated here. Sorry.

cathyscarlett Sun 10-Mar-13 03:10:48

I've just updated myself on the rest of the thread there, excuse my ignorance. I hope everyone can get through it.

minkembra Sun 10-Mar-13 09:00:13

Happy mothers day lovely ladies thanks

TheSilveryPussycat Sun 10-Mar-13 09:24:48

cathy people do have arguments, and non-abusive people sometimes use similar tactics to abusive ones. eg. my new squeeze sometimes leaves an utterance hanging for me to finish, I think this is because of his own uncertainty, but with an abuser it would be so that I revealed what I wanted, while he did not.

It makes it harder to be independant when you are dependant on them for transport, so if you had really wanted to leave it was up to you to order a taxi. Perhaps what you did want was to get to some resolution.

It seems that you may have been running some of your abusee strategies. Particularly the repeated texting etc. Your sirens may or may not be a warning, but you may need to find a cooler more detached place from which to interact with your bloke.

minkembra Sun 10-Mar-13 09:26:52

Ok Cathy i have read your post. i am going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say this early on in a relationship you had a bit of a set back with the communication. you were being very sensitive to whether he wanted you there- understandably as you are on pins after previous relationship.

However, let's assume he is just a normal guy. he won't understand what you went through. he May know, he may care but he can't really know what it feels like. so he won't have been able to see where you coming from and withdrawn himself from a very confusing situation.

At thus stage in a relationship he for will ve trying to work out what kind of a relationship it is.

However he should gave given you a chance to talk it over. if he eastenders bit coming over he should have said so.

On the other hand if he is an abuser then keeping you strung out suits him fine. although ic it were my ex, he would gave kept you dangling a bit and then relished the opportunity to point out all your failings and how you made him feel but how generous he was fir 'putting up either you when no one else would' i.e. in mh experience of my ex he would gave exploited this opportunity to the max to make you insecure and make himself look good.

(i am not saying you are lucky to have him no one else will!!! That's just what he would have said)

So On the one hand you do get abusers which do the I'm leaving you not I'm not trick. but it dies also happen a lot early in relationships when people are wondering if they should invest heavily ironically move on. he can probably tell you are not sure sit he is not sure.
At this stage i would say one swallow does nite a summer make and one communication does not an abusive relationship make.

But if it keeps happening then i would at the least worry that maybe you have a difficult relationship on your hands.

So i would say play it by ear. see how he is when he comes back. try not to bombard him with messages and calls.

Stay string for yourself. a man is nice to have but you don't need one.

you are understandably shaky and it might taketake you a few tries at it to get used to and to havefind someone who you feel comfortable with. if this relationship feel wrong bail.

Do you have much background on him- previous relationships, general communication style? Is he a fighter?

minkembra Sun 10-Mar-13 09:28:20

Dam phone if he isn't coming over. nothing at all to do with eastenders!!

minkembra Sun 10-Mar-13 09:29:45

Also putting up with not putting up either.

Hissy Sun 10-Mar-13 09:38:27

MrsM, how are you? I remember the fear of ex leaving, it was physically excruciating, but I KNEW it had to happen.

It did, and I'm happier than I've ever been in my life. If he goes, let him. It ISN'T normal to live like you are having to do atm.

Be strong, focus on getting to the other side of this. It's worth every scrap of fear and pain.

minkembra Sun 10-Mar-13 09:44:25

Anyway with my ex i should have seen him coming- stories of fighting, i knew he had had affairs and left wife for OW and was not very sorry about it.
Nothing was ever his fault. he was often late. spoke horribly to and about his ex.
Spent far too much time on the net. was not that obliging.

But i was i was in a bad place judgment wise (prescription drugs) i was drawn to the bad boy with a nice side thing, fascinated(totally diff to previous bfs) and vain enough to think he might change for me and he also told me he had grown out if a lot of that. plus i let me va-jay-jay do too much of the thinking and i thought what the hell it is just a fling.

(and obviously he 'came with a nice sauce' wink as in he could be very charming attentive affectionate amazing in bed. and i was like a junky i knew underneath it was wrong but i was hooked and also i have previous for self destructive behaviour and was punishing myself for having done some bad things and thought i deserved it.

Got too far in and could not get out. and then minimized it all away and stuck to the well he never hits me he is just a bit hard work and lazy.

In short i should have looked harder at him and a lot harder at my motives and told my va-jay-jay to shut it grin and my biological clock.hmm

minkembra Sun 10-Mar-13 09:48:29

So Cathy dunno if that helps. Look for other signs. if he threatens to leave or blows cold just let him go. but if it is going well try to communicate calmly and clearly. take your time listen for the subtext i.e. Is he undermining you

don't get panicked into reacting if it looks like he might leave. you don't need him he is just nice to have.

minkembra Sun 10-Mar-13 09:49:13

What is for you won't go by you.

Hissy Sun 10-Mar-13 10:01:13

CAthy I'm going to NOT give this guy the benefit of the doubt for now and THIS is why:

He gets understandably offended why I make the comparison, because he says he isn’t an abuser.

Offended? offended? Anyone who cared about you wouldn't be OFFENDED, they would be MORTIFIED and they would do whatever it took to NOT repeat the things that distress you.

I will say that your instincts are shouting at you, and with all this on again, off again nonsense, he's trying to mess with your head. 4 months in? Nah... not worth it.

At 4 months, no. that is not right. Move on. Nothing more to see here.

I can physically feel your panic with the repeated texts, I have been there. It's so totally out of control, and THIS in itself is what you need to know that this relationship is not working FOR YOU. You are not feeling valued, safe, or cherished, and your own need for acceptance is driving you to panic and chase it. This is something that you can work on, and the first step in that journey is to put yourself first and end this.

He on the other hand is pissing about with your emotions, the I'll come over, then not, then phone off, then calling you at midnight. Who the F does this?

You are a beautiful, caring, funny, clever and sociable woman, one that ANY man ought to be PROUD to be with, want to be with and consider himself lucky to be with.

He pisses you about?, you say nothing, you get up, you go home and you don't go back. Nobody has the right to mess with our head, especially when we have been through this crap before.

You start off by saying that you don't think he has done anything wrong, that you are allowed to this that and the other, and that you have full freedom. that is not a commendable point, that is what should be a GIVEN in relationships. You go on to describe his behaviour and I don't see much right in how he treats you.

I don't know if he is an abuser or not, I don't know him well enough, and neither do you. I will say though that he is treating you badly, and that you deserve better. Whether or not he is DANGEROUS is irrelevant. From what I see here, he is NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

I think also that you need to end this, because he is messing with your head and that you, for whatever reason, can't deal with it.

If you do this, if you put yourself, and the treatment you should be getting from a boyfriend in a higher position than it is now, you will have learned a great deal and will have strengthened yourself, and your boundaries for the future.

This guy is wrong for you. It shouldn't be this hard at 4m in. You don't need to work through this, you owe him nothing.

MrsMorton Sun 10-Mar-13 10:02:12

hissy I'm at work now and the nasty texts have stopped. I'm just carrying on like normal tbh. I don't know what else to do.

Sadly work on a Sunday only lasts four hours and I'm in the car he needs for work (I cycle normally but Sunday work is too far) so I have to go home.

If he leaves I will definitely let him. I need to see a solicitor I think but I want to have more counselling first so I don't start using solicitor as a counsellor IYSWIM.

ponygirlcurtis Sun 10-Mar-13 10:10:58

MrsM - I don't think he'll leave - he's just threatening to in order to get you worked up. Mine used to talk about it all the time, and it terrified me, even though being with him made me miserable.
Why not make a solicitor appt soon, rather than wait, it doesn't hurt to speak to one for a free half-hr session. Keep all the nasty texts to show them.

Cathy - I think you need to take a breather from your bloke. I agree with everything already said, especially Hissy of course. He may not be abusive, I don't know, but he's certainly messing with your head and making you unhappy, causing you to act out your fears with lots of panicky texts and calls, etc. This is not who you want to be in a relationship. Take a break to get yourself calm, and see how the land lies after that.

Sending all you wonder, wonderful, strong ladies much love for Mother's Day. xx

Hissy Sun 10-Mar-13 10:24:10

I agree with ponygirl, get free advice, even if at the CAB, you need to see what your rights are, and what help you can count on. knowledge is power and all that grin

Carry on with the counselling if it helps keep you strong and focussed.

EternalRose Sun 10-Mar-13 10:41:53

Hi, sorry I have been awol. I hope everyone is OK. I am ok, but you will be pleased to know I feel incredibly emotionally detached from my now 'EX'. Although, I still have to stay here for 8 weeks to get my relocation costs saved up. But after that I will be free.

ponygirlcurtis Sun 10-Mar-13 11:29:49

Rose, lovely to hear from you. And fantastic news that he's now your ex. It'll be a tough couple of months while you wait to leave but you can do it.

EternalRose Sun 10-Mar-13 11:32:52

Thank you so much much for your support ponygirl, and I hope you are well? Yes, it is abhorrent living here, but he sleeps on the sofa and as long as I dont bring up the relationship or me leaving, he seems to be fine really. In fact he comes across very apathetic about the whole thing hmm.

I cant believe how much better I feel for making the decision, and deciding to stick with it. My depression has miraculously disappeared, funny that.

FairyFi Sun 10-Mar-13 12:01:11

I'm glad you're feeling so much better Rose and especially that your dispression magically lifted grin that magic wand at work!

Cathy that sounds soo stressful for you and not like a lovely new relationship should be only 4 months in sad. Its hard to not get the answer you need to hear (either way), I think necessary to assume that it was off (not everyone will face up to sharing that decision knowing hurt it could cause, which is cowardly and inexcusable, but happens a lot). What struck the chord with me was that once you took control and said you were off, only then did he say it wasn't.

I think really the question is how happy are you with this and not whether he still wants you? It does seem to be causing you much distress. Over-texting etc. I think if a guy were texting me that much I'd feel really overwhelmed. There's also the unpredictable life he has, or is portraying, which if I ever thought I could consider another relationship simple and more predictable would seem to be a goodplace to start after the trauma of an abusive one. You decide hun, what you want. To give him another chance, or to bin him, but whatever, I think the 10 day break is good timing for some reflection and distance. take care xx

Mothers Day wishes for strength and kindnesses today xx

minkembra Sun 10-Mar-13 13:18:19

Sorry my original post to Cathy did not come across very clear. Partly cos it is full of typoshmm
I did not mean give him benefit of the doubt. i meant i was going to look first at that possibility ( that he is ok) and then the other (that he is a wrong un)

However will say one thing i think it is perfectly reasonable to set a boundary at -if you say you are coming over, do, if you cannot then let me know. if he was at home he can stick his phone on the charger. so that is no excuse.

I would not leave someone dangling so do not like people who do.

So maybe what you need to for is use this breather as an opportunity to define your list of boundaries.

snowshapes Sun 10-Mar-13 14:15:45

Hi there,

Just quickly as I am supposed to be de-cluttering whilst DC2 naps. Cathy, I have been thinking about your post, so here are my thoughts:

>> I mean, he doesn’t care/mind who I go out with, when I go out, how long I’m out, why I’m out etc<<

Agree with Hissy that these things should be a given.
That apart, you are analysing your behaviour and trying to explain it and wondering what it contributed to the situation, but I don’t sense that this is part of a dialogue with him? Whereas he should be feeling bad that it escalated and should be talking about why (without you taking all the blame!!)

>>I had asked and demanded for hours that he took me home, I was awful and nasty to him, almost pushing him into it, and then I was distraught when he went through with it.<<

No, I suspect that the being distraught was also to do with the fact that he had taken hours to agree to your request to be taken home, and not offered anything constructive about how you might spend the evening instead. What happened in those hours? Did he just faff around and ignore your request to leave? If he had transport and you didn’t, and you are at the stage in your relationship where it is not a given that you will stay over, the kind and reasonable thing to have done would have been a) to take you home as soon as you asked, with a reasonable discussion about when you would next meet or b) to have clearly asked you to stay if that was what he wished. I would have a think about how that time went, how you felt and what he did or didn’t do. Hours is a long time to ask someone to take you home, if they have the means of doing so. I don’t think I would be particularly polite in those circumstances. I guess you could have called a taxi, but if it is more than 5 – 10 minutes, that is a lot of money, but yes, I do see the point that if you wish to go and someone is not taking you, then call a taxi because they are not being reasonable and you are just waiting for reasonable behaviour to come and feeling worse and worse, so it is a way of protecting yourself.

>>So anyway, I asked him to come back to mine. This was about 8pm. ... Said he’d just got home and charged his phone. <<

He’d just got home at midnight, when he said he was coming to yours? Was he abducted by aliens? You shouldn’t be sitting around for four hours, and waiting for a guy who is supposed to be coming round but then goes home.

>>I felt still in absolute turmoil (like I did almost every day with my ex) but it couldn’t be helped<<

Well, except for the next two days, if I am reading correctly, he has one excuse after the other.

>>he said the previous statement that he wanted to finish was just spur of the moment, and not wanting to ‘hurt’ me by leaving me hanging for a week while he was away<<

How very gallant hmm. He’s kept you hanging for a couple of days already.

>> He gets understandably offended why I make the comparison, because he says he isn’t an abuser.>>
Agree with Hissy on this one. I said something comparing my STBXH to my mother, who was emotionally abusive and controlling (that is how I recognised the behaviour) and he was offended. The comparison turned out to be apt.

Okay, not wanting to pick apart what you have written, but just look at the behaviour he has displayed to you, which appears to have gone over several days. You are trying to explain your reactions in terms of your response to your abusive ex, and drawing the conclusion that you are being unreasonable for this reason, and giving him the benefit of the doubt. There are other conclusions you could draw about the comparison.

In short, be really cautious and listen to your instincts. What you have described here is not the behaviour of someone who respects you. If it is out of character, then he should be apologising and explaining, you should not be on here, wondering whether it is you sad

Disclaimer: my objectivity here may be clouded because some of this definitely reminds me of STBXH.

foolonthehill Sun 10-Mar-13 20:06:40

Cathy this is not how a relationship should be.

I think you are lost in the idea of a relationship and feel you have to work through everything. I have no idea whether he is abusive but I can pretty much see that this is not a good place for you to be, this relationship is not making you stronger, better, more secure or more at peace with yourself and him I would let him and it go. Do some work on yourself, build up your confidence and circle of friends.

this is eating you up from the inside out.


BreatheandFlyAway Sun 10-Mar-13 21:34:15

Hi all smile

Cathy I agree with Fi in that this sounds really stressful and not exciting and wonderful. Take care of yourself, be careful.

ER I am glad your depression has lifted magically! Was it Silver who said her depression also magically lifted in a similar way?!

I am on phone so haven't had full read through but will do shortly. My laptop is stranded in fw's section if house and I don't dare get it because I feel an attempt at DTD by him coming on detours his fury on fri over cafcass he's now being extremely charming and pleasant. I'm not drawn in but the pressure's hard to take, just as much as when he's being horrible IFSWIM.

Dcat staunchly sitting on my lap ready to defend my virtue wink having madly chased his tail earlier.

BreatheandFlyAway Sun 10-Mar-13 21:43:01

Fool you speak wisely as always. X

NiniLegsInTheAir Sun 10-Mar-13 21:47:47

Hi ladies, dropping in quickly. How was Mother's Day in the realms of FWittery?

Mine was suitably awful, but for some reason I'm both surprised and hurt. I had to BEG for a lie-in, made my own cuppa this morning, but did get a card and a 'promise' of a present at some point in the (distant) future. Every year the effort made gets worse (and DD still too little to do anything herself). And he doesn't even NOTICE that I'm upset. sad

I've got to get out. I can't take it anymore.

Cathy, welcome and I agree with everyone else that this is NOT a good relationship for you. Be careful x

Good to hear things are moving apace for you Maggie, and hugs, waves and brew for everyone else (and [arsenic] for FWs).

I had a phone call from FW this morning asking if I could drop in with the dc on my way to my mum's house so the dc could write on my card. Obviously picked up on my fury last night. We duly did so and I sat there with a cat's bum face and then left very shortly after they'd finished. No visits until Fri because of his shifts and dd is still umming and aahing about whether she wants to sleep there or not.

BreatheandFlyAway Sun 10-Mar-13 22:07:12

Nini so sorry you had a sad day and felt hurt hmm.

Match loving the cat's bum face description, though not loving the fwittery that brought it on hmm

TisILeclerc Sun 10-Mar-13 22:35:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

minkembra Sun 10-Mar-13 23:11:06

tis in my experience of ad they should be working by now.
Not had that one though.
Have you read wikipedia entry - says not more than 40mg so depends on what you are on already and also they can do a gene test to see if it will work but i am betting US not NHS
from the many ppl i have known on ads it can take several goes to find the one that works.
They found mine first go (not that i need it now) horses for courses. i found it worked in about 3 weeks. very numbing though. These days i prefer to rely on a lot of exercise and routine but at the time it saved my life.

Anyway if you are not feeling better go back to the gp. always go back.

BreatheandFlyAway Sun 10-Mar-13 23:58:20

Tis I found citalopram very much downers in themselves. They made me feel awful. I asked for fluoxetine (Prozac) and I certainly feel ok, not worse and not weird or numbed. I take the lowest dose but I think they keep me fairly steady. Talk to your doc about trying something different? Xx

I took refuge in bath (only lockable door) to avoid amorous try-onshmm just emerged very silently and put chair against bedroom door. Prob overly dramatic but i feel very twitchy and vulnerable. hmm

FairyFi Mon 11-Mar-13 00:00:09

Tis I was told recently that if you scored on the below average severity of depression ADs do little to help? In the more moderate to severe cases thye have been shown to be more helpful, and y might need a different one. I hope something shifts for you soon maybe FW, out of the country!

Just checkng my outdoor FW camera, and looks like the snow is just starting to fall.

Spoke to a neighbour today that mentioned she had seen fw loitering outside my house, he's not supposed to come here. Creepy FW!

I am sorry that you been sad today Match sad

yy to 'got to get out' Nini !

Fly lol at staunch dcat... Mine's not arrived to strike usual superman pose, wondering where he's gone to, as surely too cold for outside!

wishes for peaceful nights to all xx as mothers day comes to a close xx

BreatheandFlyAway Mon 11-Mar-13 00:11:56

Fi sorry and worried to hear fw has been lurking angry can you log it with 101?

Hope your dcat comes in soon the dirty stop out! grin Lovely kitties, don't know what we'd do without them xx

I think fw has gone to sleep. Just starting to relax from hyper vigilance - it's so bloody stressful. Grrrr.

BreatheandFlyAway Mon 11-Mar-13 00:18:40

Bloody hell he's not asleep, he's on the move. Am back in bathroom. So sick of this.

minkembra Mon 11-Mar-13 00:34:34

breath fi sorry to hear both of you have to deal with such unnerving behavior.

BreatheandFlyAway Mon 11-Mar-13 00:43:31

Thanks Mink. All quiet here now- I think he's truly gone to sleep now. Am curled up in blanket with dcat, reading. smile Hope you're well. Xx

minkembra Mon 11-Mar-13 00:53:40

I'm goodsmile

cathyscarlett Mon 11-Mar-13 01:15:16

Thank you so much to everyone who replied.

I think the ten days apart has come at an ideal time. I do have lots of friends who I socialise with regularly, and actually really like being single, and was very reluctant to get into a relationship because I enjoyed being single so much. It's so very unlike me to be worrying so much about a man, I haven't done so since the abusive ex. So this will be a nice week to take stock and let everyone calm and cool down a bit, and come away from this needy person who seems to be commandeering my mind.

The point about my bombardment of calls is a good one. Perhaps he was confused and baffled too. But that was the first time I had done that. Usually I'm not too fussed when he rings or texts, and wouldn't dream of bombarding him except for that I needed to know whether we were/weren't splitting up etc.

Hopefully I'll get back into my normal mindset I had spent so long building up before him of not being too fussed about men, and when I see him again I'll have a clear head. I'll probably stick with him this once. It is very out of character. But the next time, if there is one, I'll be out like a shot.

I've also been telling my friends and family about this, which is massively different to my old relationship where I tried to keep everything hidden. That's one of the main things that feels different this time.

Thank you again to everyone who replied, it has been very helpful.

minkembra Mon 11-Mar-13 01:27:31

Cathy glad to hear you sounding clearer. sounds to me like that is a good boundary to set. and you are positive about single life too.

that is mindset i want to approach relationship from- nice to have (If it is a positive experience) but not essential.

And you are talking to friends in RL.

Hope it works out for you but glad you are braced ffor being single if it starts to look in any way wrong to you and you are clearly not depending on it working out at all costs.
Anyway best get some sleep.

Hissy Mon 11-Mar-13 07:40:45

"The point about my bombardment of calls is a good one. Perhaps he was confused and baffled too. But that was the first time I had done that"

Don't make excuses for him. Don't use this break to re-write history.

He could have re-assured you, he didn't.

Normal blokes wouldn't react like he did, they would see you're freaking out, knowing your background, and they'd soothe you, why? Because they could see your turmoil and suffering and they wouldn't be able to ignore it.

Your comment about it being out of character. My love, this is merely 12 weeks in. You have NO idea what his character is. None whatsoever.

It takes on average 2 years for abusers to show themselves, but they start with tiny bits of reactions that wobble you, but you excuse it and get stuck in further.

Use this 2 weeks to consider the relationship OVER, and to see how OK you are single, and how nice it is to be respected by yourself and others.

You need to see yourself as good enough for anyone, just the way you are. Not grateful he puts up with you.

DON'T, whatever you do, rewrite the relationship according to how you need it to be.

Hissy Mon 11-Mar-13 07:45:20

"It's so very unlike me to be worrying so much about a man, I haven't done so since the abusive ex."

And with the panicked phonecalls, something has triggered you into an identical response as you would have had with the same ex.

Slow RIGHT down with this guy and really demand and expect actions, not words.

A decent relationship wouldn't be triggering you.

MrsMorton Mon 11-Mar-13 09:02:02

Well, normal service has resumed. I was so scared but I think when he demanded my phone off me and I just gave it to him he realised (a tiny little bit) that it's all in his head. Forunately my secret counselling emails are in a different account so he wouldn't have seen them anyway. He didn't even look at the phone in the end...

I so so want to just phone him and say "I'm not coming home tonight".

I'm going to stay with my DM this week which I'm really looking forward to although we will definitely argue!!

arthriticfingers Mon 11-Mar-13 09:45:16

MrsM He did not 'realize' anything. He never believed the crap he was spouting in the first place.
His object - controlling you - was achieved when you gave him your phone.
Sorry - I know how brusque I can sound.

MrsMorton Mon 11-Mar-13 09:57:11

Should I have said he couldn't have it? Brusque is good!
This week will be slow I think...

TisILeclerc Mon 11-Mar-13 10:16:53

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsMorton Mon 11-Mar-13 10:28:02

Yes, I understand. I didn't realise it was another form of control... blush I'm more naive than I thought.

What's annoying me is that I'm an introvert and I don't like going out to the pub etc because I find it all a bit much and everyone talks over me etc etc but now I'm thinking "I want to go to the pub tonight because he's noce to me in public..."

ponygirlcurtis Mon 11-Mar-13 10:37:30

MrsM, there's a bit in the Lundy book, where one abuser, who had kicked off at seeing his partner speaking to another man and launched into accusations of an affair, admitted he knew fine well that they weren't having an affair. But his kicking off is an opportunity to exert more control over his partner. Just as yours did. arth is right, he doesn't believe you are having an affair, he just wants to keep you down. sad

Why not just phone him and say that? Or not go home after your visit next week? What is it that stops you?

Leclerc, your story about that being the first time in 15 years that you received anything bought at all for Mother's Day is v sad. sad I can understand why, even though this is a good thing, you feel down - maybe grief for all those years that you've been treated so so badly. I'd say def go back to doc - it can't hurt to have a wee chat, and they might be able to suggest something else. Have you had any counselling yet? Sorry, brain a bit fried at the mo, can't remember. blush

Breath - hope your guard-cat was vigilant all night!

TisILeclerc Mon 11-Mar-13 10:37:53

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TisILeclerc Mon 11-Mar-13 10:41:23

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ponygirlcurtis Mon 11-Mar-13 10:49:36

Ah yes, I knew you spoke to 'me Julie'. How's the CBT going (homework aside)?

ponygirlcurtis Mon 11-Mar-13 10:51:34

Also, I'd like to draw everyone's attention to today's Google Doodle:

'DON'T PANIC' grin

Sage advice. I needed that this morning! I have my towel, everything is hoopy. Need to remember that. smile

CharlotteCollinsislost Mon 11-Mar-13 10:52:48

Well, I told him.

He cried, didn't understand, asked why we can't try couple's counselling first. I said very little, just that it had all been said before and talking won't change things now. He says that's unfair, that I've sprung this on him!

Woken at 1am by unearthly heavy breathing type sound going downstairs. Think that was him sobbing. There's been lots of sobs, sniffs and sighs this morning, too. And voice breaking while saying, "I can't live without you," "But you're my wife" and the like.

I pity him. Not much else, though.

ponygirlcurtis Mon 11-Mar-13 11:01:09

Charlotte!!!! Am standing up applauding you. Fantastic news. You did it!!!!!

Stay strong, my lovely. The pressure and fake crying antics from him will intensify, I'm sure. but you know that now.

And you told him on Mothers Day! Even better - you are taking your life (and your motherhood) back from him.

Is it too early for a celebratory wine?

ponygirlcurtis Mon 11-Mar-13 11:01:38

You'll need to NC soon - you aint no lost Charlotte now!

TisILeclerc Mon 11-Mar-13 11:08:44

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TisILeclerc Mon 11-Mar-13 11:13:05

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

arthriticfingers Mon 11-Mar-13 11:32:46

Charlotte grin wine (never too early!)

FairyFi Mon 11-Mar-13 11:59:45

excellent news to be greeted with when I poppedin here Charlotte and you being so strong. What a lot of ol waffle pants from him, handled well by you xxx

me too tis gonna be a good friday this week wink

mine never turned up Fly abandoned guarding duties for the inside of a thermal lined coat that had been flung down by DD earlier! glad you got cosy with your dcat for snuggles and a quiet night


Great news charlotte. I think you start to feel stronger when you realise the tears etc aren't really genuine, just put on to get the right response from you. More power to you!
Leclerc, have a great night on Friday. Wish I could plan a night out, but at the moment DD is saying she doesn't want to sleep at daddy's.

FairyFi Mon 11-Mar-13 12:32:34

yep, tis tough Match mine doesn't either. we have a friend s/over arranged which means I get 1 night free. Its worth having each other's over so that you get a night off now and again, and then try to restrain oneself on that rare outing!

minkembra Mon 11-Mar-13 12:35:25

charlotte grin

foolonthehill Mon 11-Mar-13 13:53:58

grin charlotte!! stay strong

TisILeclerc Mon 11-Mar-13 14:33:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BreatheandFlyAway Mon 11-Mar-13 14:51:07

Charlotte yeah grin fantastic news. Keep strong lovey.

minkembra Mon 11-Mar-13 14:51:39

Tis have a great night out.

so the kids access. after having said no he could not possibly be flexible and see them any day other than Saturday or for more than 3 hours for reason including:
having no gf
he hates me
it is my fault
and he has no money
all included in an email telling me (paraphrase) I am a mental, drug addled, slag, no hoper, scrounger who treated him like a child care servant whilst I bled him for money...

I get an email yesterday saying very politely, can I see the kids on Sunday 12-4 if that suits.
notice he had deleted all the previous emails on the email thread.
so i replied 'of course, the kids will be delighted.'
because I am a normal person who does not want my children to be unable to see their dad.

I did wait 24 hours before replying though ...well i am only human wink
(although had he said 3 hours or less I may have wrangled but 4 is progress...sort of)

he seems not to realise you cannot gaslight someone by email.hmm

and clearly the whole thing was just a pretext so that a) he could not have the kids on Sunday because he thought I had something I wanted to do b) to get to say all the nasty things he wanted to get off his chest.

I seem to remember there was an old Trobriander cricket song that went something like:
I am PK, I am PK,
You are glue
It bounces off me and sticks to you

keeps going round in my head for some reason...

or as Sheldon would say
I am polymerised tree sap
and you are an inorganic adhesive
so whatever verbal projectile you launch in my direction
is reflected off me
returns to its original trajectory
and adheres to you

BreatheandFlyAway Mon 11-Mar-13 14:52:35

Fi have you considered mediation with your callous cat gringrin glad he's alright and had a cosy night (the dirty great stop out!)

BreatheandFlyAway Mon 11-Mar-13 14:55:45

Mink grin. Loving your post!

Arse that he is for calling you all those horrible names angry

ponygirlcurtis Mon 11-Mar-13 15:11:37

Mink - Bazinga!
Good outcome for you and the kids, bad outcome for FW cos he rails and spits his dummy out and ends up doing what you wanted him to anyway! grin

Leclerc - i don't see that as a sadness, it makes me think what a pathetic man he is that he's less trustworthy with his own kids than a 19-year-old who isn't family. He is not worth even your pity.

minkembra Mon 11-Mar-13 15:40:40

fi ah cats in coats. looking back perhaps I should just have bought my cat a bomber jacket of its own.

they used to say i turned up at work looking like the cat had dressed me...cos by the time I realised there was cat hair all over my jacket which then ended up all over my clothes it was too late to do anything about it.

(re access it was last Sunday he though I had something on- this Saturday he is busy so he needs to change days. but I am quite happy co I didn't have anything on. he may be an arse but he is no longer my arse smile and the kids get to see him longer/this weekend instead of not for a month. )

TisILeclerc Mon 11-Mar-13 16:06:59

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

minkembra Mon 11-Mar-13 16:31:12

another thing ex said though is 'I am no longer your verbal punchbag' that was one of his favourite phrases. wtf?!? hmm it would be funny almost were in not so grrr.

arthriticfingers Mon 11-Mar-13 16:59:05

My FWEX told me it was me who had spat at and tried to strangle him hmm
They are weirdos - and, no, I can't find it funny ... yet ...

minkembra Mon 11-Mar-13 17:19:12

I did actually laugh out loud when I read his email where he said he was a domestic slave. ludicrous things always make me laugh.

but can totally see why you would not find that funny arth
my ex did actually manage to convince me I had thrown a glass at him, now realise that although he still believes this, I was gaslit (lighted). there was a glass incident. I didn't throw it, and at the time I said i couldn't have because it ended up in the dishwasher, (no way he put it in the dishwasher so i must have) if i had thrown it and it had hit him then that means i would have had to bend down to pick it up and no way would i have thrown something at him and then put my head anywhere near his feet or lower than his hands. therefore i know it never left my hand, i did tip the contents over him. that much is true blushsad but i admitted to throwing it just to shut him up. and by the end of it i started thinking i had thrown it.

arthriticfingers Mon 11-Mar-13 17:42:32

Didn't mean to say that we should not find it funny.
I am looking forward to the day when we can all piss ourselves laughing.
I can laugh at some things - just not at all the gaslighting.
We will all get there
I shall raise a brew (and later, a wine) to that smile

arthriticfingers Mon 11-Mar-13 17:43:35

brew (you can tell where my thoughts are going blush)

Hello, just checking in, I've been lurking but ashamed to admit that nothing here has changed... same old cycle, he blames me for something, I get furious then have to calm down and agree with him that everything wrong is all my fault. And brush it all under the carpet just to keep the peace. But it leaves me burning with indignation when clearly it is NOT my fault. Ie, the weather, or he blames me for the fact that he has a low vitamin D level. WTF?? But still considering that I don't think that I should rock the boat because of DD. June exams have got so much riding on them, it wouldn't be easy even if everything else was perfect.

Charlotte, hope all is well. Pity I can understand, I feel the same so much of the time. Is he staying around long enough for you to make plans?

Mink glad you have some perspective on the issues, I really think that they truly believe that they are hard done by, I know my H always makes it clear that even though he speaks at length in a loud voice to me (presumably because I won't understand otherwise) I am the one who shouts-- not him-- therefore he is actually suffering more than I am. Verbal punchbag indeed!

BreatheandFlyAway Mon 11-Mar-13 18:17:33

Thats- my fw is the same. He will say I have screamed at him because that's his perception if I stand up to him- he so can't take it that he feels screamed at. However I never raise my voice to him because I can't stand shouting having grown up amidst constant screaming. Aren't I sensible to have married a shouting violent volatile bad tempered man hmm not!

Breathe perhaps the shouty-ness was what drew you to exFW in the first place? I wonder about family influence. In my family my mother was the unreasonable one who we all had to bend over backwards to accommodate-- similar to my H, if you didn't do what she wanted there would be hell to pay in the form of instant silent treatment followed later by the most horrible verbal abuse... I briefly spoke to my sister about this a few years ago (I think she's had counselling) and she said that people tend to gravitate towards situations they find familiar... even if they are $%^&ing dysfunctional! Gah. At least you know you're right grin

Dillie Mon 11-Mar-13 18:46:11

Charlotte well done! Keep strong and be prepared for him to up the anti a little. Is he staying or are you leaving - sorry if you already posted, I can't keep up with this thread at times!

Still low level fwittery here. I asked him to pick up dd from brownies as I am going to see my friend. Any one would have thought I asked him to travel 300 miles instead of 3!!

Not heard about the house yet. 5 weeks and counting since the offer was accepted. Can't be much longer!

Here's hoping for a quiet night curled up with dcat! Need some Miranda to cheer me up and a brew

Take care all x

minkembra Mon 11-Mar-13 19:14:16

I don't think it is necessarily gravitate to, i think it might be put up with it longer and notice it less because the coping strategies are already ingrained.

i was well known for being easy going hard to rile and not keen on confrontation before i met my ex.

ponygirlcurtis Mon 11-Mar-13 20:16:04

Leclerc - I don't think reporting it to the police is just to do with courage. Maybe at some point in the future, you'll be ready to do it, and you'll do it. Don't beat yourself up about that too. You have done soooooooo much to be proud of.

thatsnotmyname - you have nothing to be ashamed of at all. There is no ideal timescale to this, it's your situation, you do it in your way in your own time. I knew for a long, long time that the relationship was no good, that I had to leave, that he was abusive. But I did nothing for ages, I was paralysed. But although I thought I was doing nothing, I wasn't. I was contacting Women's Aid. I was reading up about abuse. I was reading the support thread (lurking, not posting), I was buying and reading the Lundy book. When I went, I knew I was ready (while not being ready at all IYKWIM). You are not doing nothing either. You are on here. You are taking baby steps.

mink - that is a description of me you have written, surely? Yet according to him I was difficult, argumentative, and crazy. Gah.

Stay strong Dillie - soooooooooon! You are doing so well, your patience must be wearing v thing...

minkembra Mon 11-Mar-13 20:22:31

What is really weird is a lot if my memories have come back things that happened before i met him.

Odd wee fragments like what it is like when someone sits behind you and you lean on them with their arms around you- proper safe closeness. Think I used to suppress those memories in case it made me look too hard at my life and feel sad and also really weirdly because it would be disloyal.
Disloyal to remember being happy! Talk about in denial. i was trying that hard to pretend it was all ok.

CharlotteCollinsislost Mon 11-Mar-13 20:25:43

Thank you all for the support. I was able to get on at lunchtime briefly and read them all, which sustained me through the afternoon.

May I indulge in a small rant? It's been tough - all the sobs, sighs and sniffs have continued, with comments about how he can't concentrate on anything, what work he has to do but can't - basically all "woe is me." He has painted himself as the victim, not just in the way he's spoken to me, but also he's told loads of people. He's been walking into the room mid-conversation so I can hear how reasonable and understanding he's being hmm and I got copied into his email to my parents, which downplayed the whole thing to "Charlotte doesn't love me any more" hmm hmm and simplified my emotions to "she's feeling so relieved to have it out in the open" - that from a conversation between us which went:

Him: "I suppose you're feeling relieved, are you?"
Me: "Well, I guess. I'm a bit out of touch with my feelings, really."

His aim seems to have been to show me just how many people's lives I'm blowing apart with my selfish, hasty, ill-thought-out action. "I don't know how to make this ok for dd1," he said, despite upsetting dd1 on an almost daily basis when he's been around recently.

"I found it hard not to cry when I was helping get the kids ready for school this morning," was another gem. Making it look as though this is a regular, normal thing that he does - and in fact didn't really do this morning. I think he helped one dc find his/her shoes.

Anyway, he's gone away to process the shock at a distance, which is a relief as I was worried for a while that he might cancel trips. And I now have to go and reply to various members of his family who want to hear my side of the story.

So if it weren't for you lot, I'd've been feeling quite guilty and got at this afternoon. thanks

An Oscar-winning performance then Charlotte. Apparently my FW had nothing to live for after we left. He seems to be very much alive after 5 months!

arthriticfingers Mon 11-Mar-13 20:34:33

You've got to hand it to FWs, though, Charlotte
They are so sure they don't miss a trick.
I sometimes wonder whether they actually half believe the shite they come out with.
Most of the time, however, I wish all FWs would stick their f***ing heads down the waste disposal - if they could get it out from up their arses, that is.
<message to self: badly need that refresher course in French!>

TisILeclerc Mon 11-Mar-13 21:04:08

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BreatheandFlyAway Mon 11-Mar-13 21:52:09

YY Pony to us tolerating crap because we're pre-conditioned to manage it. Sadly, all my life, people have said to me, "you're so strong, don't know how you manage" etc, when in fact I'm weak to have put up with the high level of crap without standing up for my own rights as a properly strong person would. Presenting the unruffled surface and making a pretty picture is what it's all been about, whereas a stronger, more sorted person would have kicked fw out at the fist sign of fwittery sad

Charlotte, an oscar worthy performance indeed. My fw has been acting marvellously, too: veered from furious on Friday (Cafcass letter), neutral on Saturday, attentive and trying hard on Sunday to angry and blamey today (rejected his attempts, didn't I, so he said, "I don't know when you're going to come out (I think he meant closet grin) or admit you just don't want a man. I said to him, "No, your actions have ended my interest in you. That doesn't make me gay or frigid. Can you not face reality?") (See, I'm getting braver!)

BreatheandFlyAway Mon 11-Mar-13 21:55:55

Also he made dd anxious and shaky because he shouted about cafcass hearing in front of her. Then accused me later of always having put myself first and asking, "I don't know why you ever had a family?" and blaming me for alienating his friends!!! When I was the one to keep his few friendships going till I got fed up. Ah well, he is being a good and helpful fw becuase his attentiveness and kindness yesterday was playing with my head a bit, but he couldn't keep it going for more than one day, once I had declined to play along with his plans for a make-up shag, coz that makes it all alright, doesn't it

BreatheandFlyAway Mon 11-Mar-13 21:57:45

Tonight I'm singing "Hello, bathroom, my old friend" to the tune of that Simon and Garfunkel song grin. Because it was the gallant (lockable) bathroom who shielded my virtue last night, along with dcat of course.

FairyFi Mon 11-Mar-13 22:02:11

most eloquent french I thought ladies! wink

coats all hung up safe from dcat nesting, post mother's day massacre cleared up in kitchen, and dcats ddog all present and correct, although must check for the one that was up on the roof last night! seriously! it was climbing along the ridge tiles, thoght it must have got up there somehow, but is freezing cold now and snowing so going to check that neighbours cat did come home! I sure she's had a rash of concerned neighbours bothering already (but just to be sure wink she'll have to have another).

oops kettle just boiled over, so will be curling up alone with DHottie tonight! (aka hot water bottle ... booo!) thats if DCat stays away again, I suspect he may wander on up later...

Tis tip - free to have the dentist make your own one... I have one (well actually 2, cos I lost the first one, and then found it after he made another!)

I'm sure there must be something better than 'just can't believe it' [again] as it is the same every time isn't it. Even managing his PR so well (with the emails to your DParents). Well at least its reassuringly in the manual!

Peace and restful sleep to all. xx

CharlotteCollinsislost Mon 11-Mar-13 22:20:12

Fly, grin to your response to the gay accusations.

Yes, an impressive performance indeed, particularly to absolve himself totally of all blame so quickly. There were a couple of times today when I could hear the combined forces of this thread shouting, "Acting!" and had to stifle a giggle. Although, I think in fairness, some of it was genuine grief at the loss of something so valuable to him - his reputation! Sorted family man no longer.

I have written to his family, a small catalogue of examples of his behaviour. As usual, I am shocked all over again by how difficult life with him has been! We are never ever getting back together. grin

BreatheandFlyAway Mon 11-Mar-13 22:39:08

Charlotte never, ever, ever? shock grin

Yeah to the freedom fighters smile thanks wine

FairyFi Mon 11-Mar-13 22:39:31

missed NChecks there ... the can't believe it [again] was response to you Charlotte

love that song... never ever, ever... . getting back together...

spine tingling!

BreatheandFlyAway Mon 11-Mar-13 22:40:17

The freedom fighters of the commune of lightness of being. Cheers, comrades grin

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Mon 11-Mar-13 22:47:05


BreatheandFlyAway Mon 11-Mar-13 22:52:41

Charlotte, Likey likey smile thanks

TisILeclerc Mon 11-Mar-13 22:56:16

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

snowshapes Mon 11-Mar-13 23:00:42

Well done, Charlotte, stand firm! You are spot on with the loss of reputation analysis, but you don't have to explain yourself to anyone, least of all his family unless they are kind, supportiv people who deserve an explanation. Like the namechange too.

Going to catch up on rest of thread and have an earlier night. Feel exhausted so trying more sleep, see if it helps.

Good wishes and strength to all. This thread makes me reflect so much on things, mainly what I would have done differently had i known earlier, maybe though these things just take their time so you are able to cope.

TisILeclerc Mon 11-Mar-13 23:01:16

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

snowshapes Mon 11-Mar-13 23:09:34

Breathe, I have the 'you are so strong' thing too. But I think the distinction in what you say is not about being weak. It is about being resilient but needing stronger boundaries. Having weaker boundaries (speaking personally) doesn't make you weak, it means you give or gave FW the benefit of the doubt as good people do. You are resilient to be getting through this.

snowshapes Mon 11-Mar-13 23:11:06

Aw, tis, i hope you feel better soon.

BreatheandFlyAway Mon 11-Mar-13 23:14:11

Thanks snow for your supportive words smile

BreatheandFlyAway Mon 11-Mar-13 23:14:40

leclerc you wanton grin

FairyFi Mon 11-Mar-13 23:46:50

seeexxy tis ! woooo, get you!

liking it, way to go Charlotte

I know I am completely weak and rubbish snow I learnt my lessons well

dcat has arrived... my cue to log off.... and sleep, except I can't stop my window rattling in the siberian winds tonight hmm

BreatheandFlyAway Tue 12-Mar-13 00:00:33

fi my dcat has done his best to deprive me of use of legs by lying on them while they were up on a cushion. Took me ages to move afterwards grin

Good night fellow commune dwellers. xxx

cestlavielife Tue 12-Mar-13 00:23:48

May I join in for a rant?
What dyu call it when they dredge up things you said and did years ago, twist it and hurl it at you?

Today has been a rant of texts... In between trying to pin down this week.s contact.,, y "you are neurotic. The police told me that when you reported me for harassment " (this was in 2009)

This ia ll over contact with dc being difficult, dd1 nearly 13 refusing to see him which is of course me poisoning her (I made her do contact for two years, but now she twelve only force her for occasional public events..)

Will celebrate five years in our lovely rented flat next week! Separate. Hurray.

"my gp showed me the complaint letter you sent. Neurotic. You are sick" ( This was 2008... After his gp called me to say "he is severely depressed you know is there a chance you will get back together?" and I wrote to say "no because he smashed his fist thru my door and has been physically aggressive and violent" etc..had to spell it out...

"isaw the letter you wrote to the head teacher, you are sick and neurotic. It is all lies " the letter in 2008explainig. Some of what was going on and that there was court order for supervised contact so dc were not to be picked up by him...

Why bring up all of this stuff in the past ? There must be aname for it. ,,, kinda gas lighting...

"you are abusing your children! I am goIng to contact social services? "

Err please do...the file there on you is quite big actually...

"you thInk you show love by feeding clothing and buying them presents. That is not love. You are abusing me and the children" ((from the man who pays zero nothing towards the kids but has bled me dry financially thru joint owned property and forced me to go to court to get order to sell....)

His catch word is "you are abusive" to any thing eg "sorry dd 2 can't come Tuesday due to after school activity but she can come Thursday this week " gets back "you are abusive ..."

Ignoring... Ignoring... Might block his number but if ds with him is only contact due to ds disabilities.

The court order for supervised contact has been superseded really tho as he doesnt believe in courts and judges it is still there in the background...we are doing the "other contact as agreed between the parties" but it is always a drama getting a time and date agreed. I Sent email proposing set days contact as suggested by family therapist back "no! I am not agreeing to anything you discuss without me there! You are beng abusive " so no agreement possible.... So as no set days agreed every week is a negotiation tho have narrowed it down to tues thurs and every other weekend day time as being potentially his. However dd2 does not want the whole quota espec after he promised various outings etc one saturday recently but they didn't make it out the door for five hours as he was "fixing someone.s computer" .
Contact is wobbly as he attacked in 2010 when in one of his "scary" phases tho he seems fairly stable in terms of not majorly anxious or ticcing or lashing out at things.., (still angry and obnoxious towards me tho) he just doesn't take her needs or wants into account at all ....wants her around his flat watching tv but won't take her to park.., (she is 10 -and a very active child).


snowshapes Tue 12-Mar-13 07:10:44

cestlavielife, that sounds like a nightmare. I don't know if there is a name for his behaviour, but it sounds like he is flailing around trying to throw anything he can at you, because he knows there is nothing else he can do. I think your DDs are old enough by the sounds of it to know their own minds. Ignore, ignore, ignore - easier said than done, I know.

Fi, I'm sorry, I honestly hope my comments didn't make you feel bad. For what it is worth, you are one of the posters who was kind and helpful to me, when I first pitched up on this forum on the SH thread - because that is where I started with thinking something was wrong, then I realised I needed to look closer to home, as have been virtually NC with my parents for a couple of years. I have not yet had the courage to go back to the SH thread, though I know I need to address the issues somehow, so you are a braver person than me for that alone. Your posts are consistently helpful, funny, supportive, despite your own difficult circumstances.

Well, wishing everyone strength for today.

Hissy Tue 12-Mar-13 07:29:05

cestLavie they mostly call that LIES love. snow is right, it's cos her's rattled, and can see he's losing his grip on you.

If you can find the strength to tap into it, you can gain strength from his panic. The worse he gets, the calmer and stronger YOU get.

Seriously, do you think his seeing the DC is good for them? If they don't want to go, can you call a total halt? Use the vagueness of his arrangements to engineer that the visits lessen, so the children aren't used to hurt others, or manipulated and emotionally abused.

If there's a hint of him being less than warm and fluffy with them, and if legally possible, look into ceasing/severely limiting contact until--hell freezes over-- he's civil and healthy to be around.

Stay calm, focussed and know that the madder he gets, the stronger you clearly are in his eyes. Go for the jugular and show ALL your calm quiet steely strength and watch him squirm.

TisILeclerc Tue 12-Mar-13 08:17:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

minkembra Tue 12-Mar-13 09:23:23

tis get well soon. i think a visit to the gp is in order. also the teeth/jaw thing- it is not that your jaw is sore is it particularly when you open it? or is it definitely your teeth- the jaw thing is a symptom of depression- strange but true. (although in my case i think when i am proper miserable I go quiet and my jaw which is used to a lot of talking seizes upwink)

charlotte yes! they do make it a bit easier in the end by showing their true colours. not once did my ex say OMG I see what i have done now. Sorry. no it was all poor me, what am I supposed to do? this is awful for me. I am the victim. Of course he didn't ant it to end- all the claiming I was doing x,y,z to make him unhappy was just pretence, he was happy as a pig in shit because he was pretty much getting everything his own way.

Breath hello bathroom my old friend. I sing #that's me in the sauna, that's me in a hot place, losing per- spiration#, to the tune of REM losing my religion...when I am in the sauna and no one else is there grin maybe I should have saved that for the highly amusing immature things you do thread (waves at match)

clv I think it is also called a waste of his time if you are already out. he knows it is all hot air. you know it is all hot air. ignore. ignore. ignore. maybe, if he really does have to see the dcs, get a cheap sim/phone just for that and have it switched off at all other times?

ponygirlcurtis Tue 12-Mar-13 10:21:46

Charlotte, loving the NC. Suits you!

Hey cestlavie - I would put a large amount of money on the fact that the police did not say you were neurotic, and that the GP did not show him the letter (although may have mentioned it). That's what he thinks, not them. He brings it up to try and 'prove' his argument - it doesn't matter that it was something 4 and 5 years ago, proof is proof! is that all he's got? rubbish!
God forbid you show love to your children by <gasp> making sure they are properly clothed and well fed. You monster! grin Any chance you could go back to a solicitor to get contact sorted? If not, then how about giving him a schedule and saying 'that's how it is, if you don't like it, take me to court'. Or, as Hissy says, stop it altogether. And remember to keep all those abusive texts and emails. He's horrible.

Leclerc what's that FW doing send you emails in the middle of the night???? Wanker. Hope you are feeling better soon.

Had a rotten night last night. No more than 1.5hrs sleep on the trot, between snot-boy (DS2) and sore-tummy-boy (DS1, who ended up in with me - and he's grinding his teeth in his sleep too, another stress-related physical symptom to add to the list). Time to bulk-buy the Calpol, methinks. And that's just for me. grin

FairyFi Tue 12-Mar-13 10:36:48

no Snowshapes smile not at all. I can feel really bad all on my own hun grin My comment was in support of yours I have the 'you are so strong thing' Was joining in! I used to feel strong, but I wasn't really, I couldn't stand up to him or others atall, even though people always thought I was strong. Not at all. but hoping I'll get there. Double whammy with the parents situation to cope with too sad - you've done NC so thats the biggest bit, and a couple of years in, doing well! that first couple of years is the hardest ime. You have enough stuff at home, like you say, to cope with. Please no need for apologies atall. It was ExFW that taught me my lessons well, so I knew how rubbish I was, but I find it really hard to not believe it - STILL! as abuse still coming despite no communication.

Actually he did/does a lot of what cestlavie talks of. Welcome here... sorry you also have a FW! It all sounds pretty familiar. All the abuses that are returned just from a single simple statement. Crazy. Sounds like you have all the servicesin place to support. Keep posting xx

FairyFi Tue 12-Mar-13 10:46:28

sorry to hear of such poor sleep last night ladies.. I feel for you, as I'm sitting here sore eyed from the siberian windws battering the windows all night and making them bang and rattle really loudly. One day I'll relax and stop remembering the things thrown at the house, ect... .but right now I sstill have to check the camera (poor vis due to blizzards) reassured that only the craziest of crazies fw? would be out in that! but very little sleep.

Get well soon tis

I have to keep telling myself, they are lies cestlavie they really are, they mean nothing atall, and now I take comfort from thinking that it doesn't really matter what the words are, or trying to make sense of them, he's still just being vile. People don't speak like this to each other, and thats bad enough, without thinking about what he might be trying to say lie

cestlavielife Tue 12-Mar-13 11:24:50

tks people,,, it does help to know the script is being followed.. he used to use the "he/she says..." when we were together.."so and so says you are fat too..." (you are overweihgt was a big mantra after i (gasp)..went from size 12 to size 14-16 after dc) "my cousin says you are cold and unfriendly".." i asked xxx and they said they agreed with me, you are in the wrong..." that kinda thing...

a gem from ystrday "you have made of the sickness i had an evil and an instrument to separate the children from me and feed them with your fears and neurosis".. not even worth explaining to him i left him coz of his behaviours not because of simple "depression".... in any case GP has on record that i would go to gp saying "he pushed and shoved me" etc and GP would say "well that is not his depression go to the police". yes he is flailing...

dd1 has made decision wont see him; dd2 holds some hope he can change but is becoming stronger and clearer on setting clear boundaries after suffering from let downs... "i will see him thursday night each week mummy that is all" . [ and this being discussed with family therapist so should he take it to court i will have their back up] ...ds would see him more but he wont see him much anyway as too hard work due to his disabilities so that solves that one...

it is just so tiring after all these years to still be attacked...crunch points like birthdays come up.

minkembra Tue 12-Mar-13 12:32:38

clvl so sorry to hear you have had and are still having such a rotten time. you sound like a very sorted person who is doing a great job in a difficult situation.

You seem to see it pretty clearly that he is not rational- so hold onto that. it is all irrational rubbish because he is irrational person and his perspective it totally skewed. yes he may believe this stuff. so what. just because he believes it makes it far from true (in fact quite the opposite- chances are if he believes it is is 100% guaranteed bullshit, useful only as manure to help you grow your resolve ;-D) it is such a pain that we cannot just walk away from these toxic people altogether because we share children with them.

NiniLegsInTheAir Tue 12-Mar-13 13:46:17

Love the new NN Charlotte smile

Stay strong cestlevie, sounds like you're doing your very best in a tough situation. He probably won't change, but you need to let his rants go over your head as much as possible. x

I think I'm being gaslighted. A few things around the house have inexplicably gone missing in the last few weeks, I know where they should have been but they're not. He swears he hasn't touched them, and none of them are things DD could have moved. We've had no visitors. I'm suspicious but doubting myself.

ponygirlcurtis Tue 12-Mar-13 13:54:14

Hey Nini - I'm sure you are right. A few things going inexplicably missing is just too much of a coincidence around a FW. Of course he's not going to admit he moved them, the object is to make you feel stressed andlike you are going mad!
Is there any significance in the items that are missing, do you think? Are there any places you think he could have stashed them? (His car?) I think I remember fool's FW hiding things on her after she first got him out, like putting keys in the freezer and stuff like that.

NiniLegsInTheAir Tue 12-Mar-13 14:08:52

Well one is a set of new chopping boards so no idea where they could have gone, and some papers (colour matchers from Dulux), and inexplicably one of my slippers went missing for the weekend and turned up somewhere I know I'd already looked. Not entirely sure what that means - although if I was to have a guess it's connected to him telling me I hoard too much. I'm not sure.

I do remember keys-in-the-freezer-gate! Very very strange.

Hope you can catch up on some sleep soon Curtis? Poorly kids is no fun for anybody!

BreatheandFlyAway Tue 12-Mar-13 15:03:07

Hi Nini, that does sound strange! I remember my fw finding my ring lying around and pocketing it, watching me frantically trying to find it and then sanctimoniously handing it over with a lecture not to leave valuable things lying around. Wow that taught me a lesson- to despise himsmile

TheSilveryPussycat Tue 12-Mar-13 15:04:28

nini after divorce but before he left, I carefully purloined and hid my fave bits of kitchen kit, and one or two other things I knew he wouldn't remember if they weren't there. Perhaps that's why the chopping boards have gone, and the other is common or garden gaslighting?

Having not posted in a while the thread has moved on, so I will confine myself to congratulating Charlotte and waving to everyone else.

FairyFi Tue 12-Mar-13 15:08:17

I hope you find his evil 'stash' nini best to just put it down to gaslighting so that you can forget about it?

I find it so hard to get my head around the energy that goes into this pure shit! but doing that and gaining pleasure from it is somehow helpful in realising quite how strange and on another track they are, right?

I've heard of someone finding tons of stuff stashed in the spare wheel compartment under the boot carpet - was that on here?

I also just found a couple of links to help those that might feel bullied /scared by the overwhelmingingness (!?) of SS and to get constructive legal advice:

family rights group is a charity with experience of helping families who are dealing with SS ( )

Rights of women is another organisation (

FairyFi Tue 12-Mar-13 15:17:40

I have to say that again!

re: gaslighting: but [the knowledge of them] doing that and gaining pleasure [they gain] from it is somehow helpful in realising quite how strange and on another track they are, right? sick sick cookies

minkembra Tue 12-Mar-13 15:38:13

nini wouldn't worry too much about what it means. have realised that not only can you not change them, although you can predict what they will do and we are all experts in that, you cannot understand them because this only makes sense to them because they are irrational beings.

They run entirely on their in internal (ill)logic.

BonaDrag Tue 12-Mar-13 16:34:22

Thank you for this thread and the links at the start. I have read your experiences with interest and a sad recognition.

I've spent today crying, again. This time it's because he thinks my mum is emotionally blackmailing me. (Not true). Last week it was because he couldn't find a parking space. My fault, obviously.

I am so full of stress hormones I am clammy and nauseous.

minkembra Tue 12-Mar-13 16:37:39

Hi bona sorry you find yourself here but welcome.brew

BonaDrag Tue 12-Mar-13 16:49:13

Thanks mink

TisILeclerc Tue 12-Mar-13 16:49:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BonaDrag Tue 12-Mar-13 17:12:37

Horrendous isn't it?
And the loneliness is crippling me.

I am so grateful for this support thread. I found it today linked from another thread.

TisILeclerc Tue 12-Mar-13 17:41:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TisILeclerc Tue 12-Mar-13 17:49:39

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Dillie Tue 12-Mar-13 18:52:35

Welcome bona and hey to everyone else

I don't post much, but this thread has been a life saver. The ladies on here seem to know just what to say.

Does help make you feel less alone thanks

BonaDrag Tue 12-Mar-13 18:55:39

I'm just wondering how to deal with the abuse while I'm still with him. (Making plans..)

Ignore? Confront? Gaaah.

He's so passive aggressive it's maddening.

Hissy Tue 12-Mar-13 18:58:30

Bone crushing loneliness here too... But not anymore!

And actually here is what kept me going, spurred me on and put me back on my feet when I was sat on me arse.

lean away, it's your time to need help, and your time to really warrant it.

When the time comes, you can give it back.

FairyFi Tue 12-Mar-13 19:13:12

hard to know the best way to respond to his abuses bona I tried every tack to make sense of something that couldn't be reasoned or made sense of because its just for its own sake, not to achieve anything jointly. There's a link above to a site that talks you through trying to live with one.. its called 'get your angries out'... I would suggest ignoring, but that might just infuriate and cause more aggression towards you, I think it will probably be a mix of tactics that will just get you through, rather than actually be able to live with it. I didn't cope with it, but others may have some good strategies. I wish you every success with your plans and keeing out of harms way in the meantime! xx

Dillie Tue 12-Mar-13 19:43:41

bona I use a mix. If my fw is ranting then I just walk away or make an excuse and go out. My poor car has had a lot of mileage added to it in the past few months!

If he has a go at me through dd, then I will stand up for myself. I tend to wait until she has gone to bed then I will confront him about it.

What you cannot do if at all possible is allow them to see that they are getting to you.

I have had hypnotherapy to help me be a bit more assertive and have been given techniques to help me when I need them.

Sometimes walking away makes things worse. Tbh I mostly absorb his ranting and talk to him in a quiet voice like you do with a toddler having a tantrum. He gives up eventually . I find writing everything down helps empty my head after his rants iyswim.

BonaDrag Tue 12-Mar-13 20:06:37

Thank you all. Some sound advice there- especially walking away from a rant. That makes sense as there's little reasoning at the best of times.

He's just home, drunk, and acting like everything is normal and he didn't leave me sobbing this morning. confused

Did I mention its my birthday tomorrow? Ahahahahaa

I hope one day to be in a position to give advice on these threads, then at least something good will come of all this. sad

determinedma Tue 12-Mar-13 20:18:41

Ummm hi. A friend said I should come here.I didn't think his behaviour was abuse but stuff on here says it may be.
He is controlling, wants to know where I am, who I am with. If I am late he questions where I've been. Accuses me of being unfaithful.has been in my phone checking calls. Has been googling how to fit a car tracker or for signs your spouse is having an affair. He is moody.'if he doesn't get sex he ignores me for days. Its his way or no way. I can't cope any more

ponygirlcurtis Tue 12-Mar-13 20:36:11

Hey Bona, determined. Glad you have both found your way here, sounds as if you both need it. Bona, I agree with everyone else's wise words, a mix is probably best. My tuppence worth is maybe work out what sits best with you - you might not like confronting or maybe don't feel safe ignoring (as it can lead to him ramping up because he's not getting a reaction from you). No hard and fast rules. But keep sharing, hope your plan is coming together...

determined - yes, that does sound abusive, very controlling. It's really hard, I know, to apply that word. I struggled for a long time. But the more you read (take time to go through all the links at the top), the more you see and recognise your own situation. Take your time, there's no rush.

ponygirlcurtis Tue 12-Mar-13 20:38:35

Dillie that's interesting about you using hypnotherapy to help you be more assertive. I'd love to try that. What techniques do you use? I am trying to be more assertive myself, I guess it's partially about feeling that I am important enough to assert my own boundaries (which I haven't in the past). Sometimes I can, sometimes not so much...

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Tue 12-Mar-13 20:52:16

I've been thinking of times when he has a go at me as tantrums, too - really helps in not taking them too seriously!

TisILeclerc Tue 12-Mar-13 20:53:47

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

minkembra Tue 12-Mar-13 21:23:25

If they are determined to get a rise out of you they will keep trying. sigh. one of the links above suggests feigning confusion tiredness and depression. but i never tried it and i am not sure about it. Anyone else try it?

I always tried to address his points as calmly as possible (not that calm usually. i AM human) waste of time i now realise and sometimes i just agreed with him and said yes i AM a useless cunt a hopeless mother etc. etc. i have no idea why you put up with me.

When i AM annoyed and trying to stay calm i shut my eyes. apparently according to the ex, self professed body language expert, this was a sure sign i was lying.

Do whatever will get you through as long as you understand it will not change him.

Hold on to the thought that this will be your last birthday with him and by next birthday you will be somewhere better smile

determined welcome.

It is funny. you know everytime someone new arrives on the thread i imagine one of those scenes from a film in a cosy pub on the moors wind howling outside. The door flies open, someone staggers in, bedraggled, slams the door and puts their back to it. IYSWIM (maybe its just meblush) guess we are all in here hiding from the werewolves wink and in this pub the regulars are very friendly thanks wine

determinedma Tue 12-Mar-13 21:29:08

Thanks. Its good to know I am not alone or imagining things and that this isnt normal behaviour. I will read all the links.

BonaDrag Tue 12-Mar-13 21:37:05

I LOVE the cosy pub analogy grin

So, so true.

BonaDrag Tue 12-Mar-13 21:38:25

Ps: is FW 'fuckwit'??

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Tue 12-Mar-13 21:42:08

Yup! I remember feeling I'd achieved some small step towards freedom the first time I called my FW "FW" on here! grin

I think thinking "this too will pass" is probably the only reliable way of dealing with them - as in, "I will leave him one day and not have to deal with this then..."

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Tue 12-Mar-13 21:43:21

Cosy pub analogy is excellent.

BonaDrag Tue 12-Mar-13 21:44:27

I internally call H a stupid prick. But fuckwit actually fits him better.

snowshapes Tue 12-Mar-13 21:58:12

Bona and determined, yes, welcome to the cosy pub. Love that, mink. I am pretty much a newbie, but it is so helpful,, the recognition that behaviors are part of a pattern, though wish no-one ended up here, iyswim.

Determined, read, read, read, read and it helps you get a handle on what is going on. It took me a while, I thought it was me.

Bona, my FW did not tantrum, did not physically or verbally lash out, apart from rarely, but was controlling and manipulative, and I realised, would provoke to get a rise out of me. I started just replying flatly yes or no as appropriate, and then it got more obvious, his attempts to provoke a reaction so he could condemn my irrational response. At the moment, I am not engaging unless it relates to DC2. He does not like this, because he used to expect to know everything. Whatever strategy gets you through.

Fi thank you for your reply. The family stuff was tied up with the FW stuff in so far as my mum scapegoated FW so it became very hard to know what was what. But i recognised FW was FW because of the many similarities in their behaviour.

So worn out today.

TisILeclerc Tue 12-Mar-13 21:58:29

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ponygirlcurtis Tue 12-Mar-13 22:01:05

Loving the bleak wild moorlands pub idea mink! It's where I was metaphorically before I crashed onto this place, lost and wild-headed, and very very afraid of the werewolf.

Same here Charlotte, I felt it was a watershed moment the first time I called him FW instead of NSDH. Now, I struggle not to refer to him as that in normal conversation... (signs you are MNing too much - when you start referring to your kids as DS1 and DS2 in conversation in RL... blush not done it yet, but been pretty close a couple of times!!!)

MrsMorton Tue 12-Mar-13 22:01:16

mink that's superb, are you MN royalty yet? If not then you should be IMO.

I haven't got to the point if calling him FW yet, he used to be DH, now he's H, soon to be FW then hopefully STBXH.

ponygirlcurtis Tue 12-Mar-13 22:02:11

Hahahahahaha! Cross-post Leclerc!!!!!

BonaDrag Tue 12-Mar-13 22:35:25

Interesting, snow, how it comes in many different manifestations but all with a similar goal to undermine,

For ages I thought stbx meant stupid bastard ex..


FairyFi Tue 12-Mar-13 22:40:44

<blasts in from the icy snowy blizzard and snuggles up by the roaring fire with companions>

yes to referring to FW in RL!!! don't seem to know what else he's called anymore! grin which I think is great!

although, he's ExFW (not meaning he's not a FW anymore, very much still FW, just someone else's FW now grin grin which is even greater! and thats bad grammar innit, cool She wonders why I won't talk to him!

Maybe I should tell her, because hes a FW?

Hope all have good sleeps tonights

<licks last traces of hot toddy from glass ... heads out into blizzard for home and bed>

FairyFi Tue 12-Mar-13 22:42:01

<pokes head back round door>

I thought STBxH had something to do with bastard too! grin

NiniLegsInTheAir Tue 12-Mar-13 22:52:54

Yep, I graduated from using NSDH to FW here without even noticing, only saw it when it was pointed out to me!

I've always thought of FW standing for 'fucking wanker', personally grin

BonaDrag Tue 12-Mar-13 22:56:15

Night all, I'm off to snuggle up with DD. have ordered FW to sleep on couch.

Oooh hot toddy. Mmmmmm.

NiniLegsInTheAir Tue 12-Mar-13 22:58:20

Ps welcome to the new ladies, keep posting, it helps!

I am putting the missing items out of my mind and wont mention them to him again. If they turn up, great. If not, well I wont be a pawn!

snowshapes Tue 12-Mar-13 23:25:42

Just to say I nearly woke DC2 up laughing at Stupid bastard xh and Fucking Wanker. Both apt, but FW captures the mind-bending, pointless except to them, fuckwittery of it all sad

Reflecting on the cosy pub, realise the last time I was in an actual, real life pub was at a friend's wedding over four years ago. The last time I went on a girls' night to a pub was nearly ten years ago shock Do pubs still exist??? But the cosy pub idea put me in the thought of asking a friend to come hill-walking one day when FW has DC. When it is warmer, though.

Night all. Mrs M, hope he takes the sofa.

snowshapes Tue 12-Mar-13 23:27:34

Argh, Mrs M, ignore me, I am mixing up posters here. Definitely time for bed. That was for Bona, who mentioned the sofa. Apologies.

FairyFi Tue 12-Mar-13 23:48:21

oh that is just brilliant Nini will b thinking that when I use it now!

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 00:55:00

Has the bell gone for last orders yet?

<grabs quick toddy before bed>

Welcome new ladies and so sorry as well that events have brought you here.

Nini I like your version of fw too!

I have been out all evening (work do) so happily have avoided the fwittery I would have endured had I been in, as tomorrow is cafcass hearing. I am being blamed for everything to do with it - my "betrayal" of my family and children by reporting in the first place, the date clash which means he can't go (because I'm his secretary, innit hmm) and not forgetting of course that I'm horrible, evil, yet also, at the same time, a "fucking coward" - because I should have just stood up to his violence and screaming abuse like a sensible woman - after all, he'd "never hurt me or kids" apart from when he did

TisILeclerc Wed 13-Mar-13 06:27:35

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TisILeclerc Wed 13-Mar-13 06:40:59

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 07:27:50

Leclerc have fun with your friend smile

Yy to the depersonalisation grin now you mention, I too struggle to say his name. And I gave often nearly written fw in my texts to trusted people on RL- guess that would flush out the mners among my friends grin

Have a good day all. I'm looking forward to being relaxed at the end of it, chatting to you lot again up in my eyrie, I'm slightly dreading the hearing today- I've no idea at all what it's all about. I know I should have armed myself by researching but every time I started to read up on it, I just couldn't make myself do it. I think I've had an overload recently!

FairyFi Wed 13-Mar-13 08:17:19

thinking of you today Fly .... and ... breeeethe.... just imagine us all stood there right behind you, your only difficulty being.... keeping us all quiet! grin
<shouts of FW, 'shoot the bastard, ba, ba, boooooo>

thoughts and strength to any going through this right now...

hilarious 'shoot the bastard!'

thats the way Nini - down with being a pawn!

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 09:24:26

Fi grin thanks! That's given me heart.... I will picture you all in the room with me (that's made me teary) xxxx

snowshapes Wed 13-Mar-13 09:27:05

YY to being in the room in spirit, tis. Really wishing you all the best.

ponygirlcurtis Wed 13-Mar-13 09:46:57

Good luck Breathe - we'll all be behind you (haha, Fi, too right, we're an unruly bunch when we see FWittery being done to our mates), think of the might of the commune if you need strength (and the safety of the hilltop, werewolf-free pub for a swift half later). grin
Be thinking boutcha.

TisILeclerc Wed 13-Mar-13 09:55:54

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TisILeclerc Wed 13-Mar-13 10:07:13

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TisILeclerc Wed 13-Mar-13 10:07:35

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

minkembra Wed 13-Mar-13 10:39:49

fly good luck. we are all rooting for you. and we will see you in the 'pub' latersmile

snowshapes Wed 13-Mar-13 10:59:05

Oh no, I've mixed people up again, that is what comes of posting quickly before a meeting. Breathe, I meant.

Hope FW gets a figurative arse-kicking at the hearing Breathe

DS is ill with what looks like either a second dose of chickenpox or scarlet fever according to the doc. She also said it could just be an odd virus, but that some are looking fluid filled. I have had 2 nights of crap sleep with DS in the bed, last night itching like crazy. Have had to ring FW to get him to take him tonight and either get the next 2 days off or take him to my lovely dgm to have him. Unfortunately it has fallen at the same time as I am prepping GCSE and A level candidates for speaking exams, so I really cannot take any more time off. sad

FairyFi Wed 13-Mar-13 11:25:04

aw match feel for you both,and hope things start improving v. soon thanks

do you give him piriton? - I only saying as noone told me about it til late stages and the pain and itching drove me mad (having it as an adult) then nursing DD through it.

<putting order in to pub landlady to get the fire stoked and line up the hot toddies on the bar for the rowdy rabble to unwind to later!>

arthriticfingers Wed 13-Mar-13 11:25:05

All strength and good thoughts to you, Fly

Have got some piriton on prescription fi. He seems ok through the day, but is horrendous at night.

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 11:43:34

Sitting waiting to be seen. Fw not here. Cafcass lady seems pleasant, had pre chat with her. She said what I say in court won't be revealed to fw. So I am going all out. Gulp. This is it. My turning point. I am going to say all the incidents and say I want a divorce. That will be reported to him. And that's it said. No going back.

TisILeclerc Wed 13-Mar-13 11:45:41

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsMorton Wed 13-Mar-13 11:55:49

Go breathe we're watching on the pub TV!!

FairyFi Wed 13-Mar-13 12:16:32

is piriton drowsy making Match I can't remember? Just a thought but thats such a good side effect to have at night! I know that certirizine isn't and use that on DD in day, but when night's involved and troubled sleeps too I use the drowsy one a plenty! (pharmacist asst horrified when I asked, luckily pharmacist known me long time and not trying to kill my child!). Oh! I've just remembered the vit that I gave DD it was miraculous... D or E?... I'll look it up.. she stopped cropping and major healing! Goggle it..

oooo ..... go Fly ! .... not forgetting to...breeeethe.... we're all there cheering you on! all good start...

arthriticfingers Wed 13-Mar-13 12:23:53

How's DS, Match?

FairyFi Wed 13-Mar-13 12:28:26

E to help the skin match eat (avocado) and topically. D seems to have beneficial effects too, although not very practical with the sun right now! (Ultra violet kills the virus, although you can get the D supplement)

... but it seems that vitamin C in large doses kills the virus (too much vit c, makes for very runny bum).

so, a short term boost might help... no doc tho! just wish I could remember clearly which one I used which made such a dramatic difference. good luck x

I think it is drowsy making, Fi. However, I am farming him out to FW tonight as FW will either be looking after him ( his one redeeming feature, excellent with sick kids) or taking him to my dgm's.
Arth I have deposited him in his cot as he was clearly knackered, despite him protesting loudly he seems to have gone off. However, it sounds like armageddon next door, so if he can sleep through that he's better than me!
Breathe, you let rip! Good on ya! <channels some long-forgotten Home and Away>

minkembra Wed 13-Mar-13 12:47:58

You go Breath

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 12:54:39

Right all done now. Court couldn't do anything other than let existing order stand as fw didn't come. I have made appt with sol week after next (he's on holiday) and have said it is to proceed with issuing divorce. Will tell fw tomorrow as dm arrives Thursday.

He really isn't doing himself any favours by not turning up is he breathe? Hopefully telling him with your dm there will take the wind out of his sails.

FairyFi Wed 13-Mar-13 12:58:51

phew! Fly doesn't he lose some rights by not acknowledging/turn up though?

It was vit K Match - <and whispers behind hand> and that is a huge bonus to have Fw good with sick kids!

Cheers Fi I didn't know you could buy that. Thought it was just what they inject newborns with blush
Yes FW is actually better with them when they're ill than me as tiredness makes me really narky if they're up multiple times in the night. I don't think FW needs as much sleep as me grin

MrsMorton Wed 13-Mar-13 13:16:45

You have to be careful with vitamin K. It really affects blood clotting!

I've just put him some virasoothe on it along with the piriton. Hopefully it will go soon and tonight isn't my problem anyway

FairyFi Wed 13-Mar-13 13:29:15

spinach, broccoli, cabbage, turnip... all high in vit K - oh yes, and liver! yum yum kids!!

Just had the garage ring and tell me it's going to be £145 for new brake shoes and the leaking cylinder repaired. Something else FW used to do for me. Have never paid for any work done at a garage. Oh well, a small price to pay for total freedom I guess.

ponygirlcurtis Wed 13-Mar-13 13:45:45

Breathe glad you are getting things moving. What was the order for again? What if he doesn't turn up next time either, will they decide he's stalling and just make some decisions? Good luck with telling FW - you'll need a stiff drink in the pub later...

MrsMorton Wed 13-Mar-13 14:04:38

Me: what time will you be home
NSDH: normal time
Me: is that about 1700
NSDH: stop panicking, probably.

WTF am I panicking abt? I said this and he said oh well you've asked me a lot lately. Whatever, I don't even care any more.

Aaarghhhhhh. Deep breaths.

TisILeclerc Wed 13-Mar-13 16:14:23

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cestlavielife Wed 13-Mar-13 16:28:53

fly good luck..

here - argh so after all the texts telling me how abusive/neurotic/etcetc i am..more overnight "you ahve broken this family, ruined the dc lives" etcetc....i then get email "I will see the people at xxxx next week and will ask them, if you confirm back to me by email your consent, to arrange first stage of parental conflict resolution therapy to be able to move later on to further discussion in another external service? There is no reason why we could not talk in an adult manner about any issues and to do so in a civilise, friendly, constructive and non-expensive way for the benefit of our health and the health and sake of our children."

no; no reason at all...but FW is incapable of doing evidenced by the series of texts... i have sat in mediator type room with him and it becomes him saying: "she did this to me; she did that to me; in 2004 she said that xxxx; in 2008 she lied to the police, accusing me of xxxxx ; in xxxxx etcetc " leaving no room for any forward movement...

and can you sign the PR papers please ? (he doesnt have PR as all born pre 2003 + never married)

nooo.. i know in court he may well get PR signed but am not inclined to do so while he continues to act in a way not consistent with good parenting... no financial support, no nothing...

Dillie Wed 13-Mar-13 16:41:22

breathe been thinking of you today. Glad it went OK, but shame your fw couldn't be assed to turn up!

Stick with it mrsm

leclerc hope your students do OK.

As for me well I had another hypnotherapy/counselling session for the loneiness. I really feel its helping. It doesn't seem to hold as much power over me as it used to. I also noticed that the night doesn't scare me so much either.

Told her of what fw did to dd about forcing her to have a cuddle and saying 'that goes without saying' to a 7 year old who asked 'you do love me? Don't you daddy?' after he did not say it automatically.

It broke my heart into little pieces to hear dd ask that. How on earth is a 7yo going to understand what he means?!

My therapist asked if I felt that he is now trying to hurt me through dd. I told her it sure feels like it, and he knows it hurts me more than him just having a go at me sad

Also phoned the solicitor. As my financial circumstances and living arrangements will change significantly, the solicitor suggested that I hang onto the papers until I move. That way I will get full remmission on the court fees.

In some ways I am relieved as it does mean he will get the papers after I move and not before!

Hope all is well with everyone x

MrsMorton Wed 13-Mar-13 17:01:14

Dillie I'm a bit hmm about hypnosis. Do you think you have to believe in it to get any benefit IYSWIM?

Emailed a solicitor today... I'm not good at talking on the phone so couldn't call them blush I'm not sure how to find a good one thoug tbh.
Any tips?

FairyFi Wed 13-Mar-13 17:38:33

MrsM you don't have to believe in it to get the benefit, it will work without your permission IYGWIM? that is, with a good one. Tread carefully, its very hard to know who's really good at effecting change through hypnosis, especially for the client! Probably best to do lots of asking around first, over time, and not rush into anything.

Yes, for good solicitor for EA(DV), ask WA in your area, they know who has the most experience in the area.

Dillie Wed 13-Mar-13 17:55:42

mrsm I don't think you have to believe in it, but you have to want it to help.

I guess its like any therapy. It will only work/help if you are willing to allow it to.

Basically she puts me in a trance state, which is just deep relaxation. She talks you through it to the point when you are 'under' Then the therapist will gives me positive suggestions that my subconscious accepts. Hypnotherapists believe that it is your sub conscious and not your conscious that govern how you react to certain situations. I think only 20% or something like that is conscious actions/thinking. The rest is going on in the background like breathing, blinking, acting on gut instinct etc. If your sub conscious has a memory or a learned behaviour that is not useful, it is this that can be healed and/or changed.

I have also had a little regression therapy where you go back to a time when you had a certain experience. That is very spooky. Although I don't 'see' anything, I certainly feel the emotion. In this case it was when I feel most lonely. You find yourself explaining the situation to the therapist who then helps you turn it into a positive memory, not by changing it, but by using your adult self to use your life experiences explain to your child self that it is OK to feel like that and to 'heal' your child self. The idea is now you have explained to your child self why the feeling is there and how best to deal with it in your own way so it holds no power over you. If that makes any sense! I have cried when I was under, I did find that very un-nerving as I struggle to cry in public, even in front of the therapist!

There are a lot of hypnotherapists out there and some are good some are bad. Most offer first half hour free so you can get a feel for them. I changed my first one as I didn't feel she was getting to the root of the way I feel. This one is much better.

It is hard to explain, and I know it sounds like a load of hippy mumbo jumbo, but personally I have found it helpful.

Unfortunately I don't think it is on the NHS as it is an alternative therapy, but you can get them recommended through your gp. This is possibly the best way to go about it.

As for my solicitor, a friend recommended them to me. Again most have a free half hour so you will need to go there and get a feel for them. Go to a few if you can. Can you take anyone with you? I took my friend for some support. It helps to have another pair of ears, as most of what was said went straight over my head as my brain was Swiss cheese at the time!

(Apols for war & peace!!)

Dillie Wed 13-Mar-13 18:06:58

I have found this

I will shut up now! grin

TheSilveryPussycat Wed 13-Mar-13 18:08:30

My strategy for finding a sol: look on Resolution site for a family law sol in my area, and I then picked a woman who had graduated over 2 decades ago. My sol was brilliant, understanding and with much experience.

Must share a [hug] with Eternal, as Breathe mentioned upthread my depression also miraculously lifted when my decision was finally made smile However, it took a year to become free of him (and keep the commune house), which was often stressful in the extreme. Mine also seemed apathetic - he had no realistic plans or counter offer to begin with, but also PA, refusing to supply info, taking as long as the system allowed to reply, and writing slightly odd letters to sol. He also represented himself, which made things much more difficult - but otoh was no match for the negotiating skills of my sol. I spent that year on housework strike, and holed up in the master bedroom much of the time.

This thread kept me going thanks to all smile

TheSilveryPussycat Wed 13-Mar-13 18:10:55

*P as in passive

LemonDrizzled Wed 13-Mar-13 18:17:20

I went first to the local divorce factory that advertises on the back of buses in my city. I didn't feel comfortable and I didnt like their colour scheme! Then I tried a smaller one with a friendly website and less aggressive profile. After half an hour with the wise old cove I saw he asked "Did you realise you were in an abusive marriage?" He is kind and tenacious and looks after me.
Funnily my STBXFW has used the first firm, who conveniently lost all reference to my visit. He has the senior partner because he is SO important but he hates it because it costs him lots!!

TisILeclerc Wed 13-Mar-13 18:30:57

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 18:43:19

Thank you good wishes and support xxxx it meant so much and I got a bit teary having a quick read of you all before my court session.

Pony the court order was to not allow him to take kids out of country, to not take them away from anywhere I have placed them (like school) etc. there was more but my mind is Swiss cheese as someone else described theirs up thread! No it's very much not in his favour that he is ignoring all the hearings. I had a good chat with nice cafcass lady then judge.

Re hypno discussion, I had it once or twice and didn't 'lose myself' which I feared, I did feel deeply relaxed and refreshed.

Am on phone in sainsbury's cafe, so will catch up properly later. I needed to escape because fw, having not dismantled his old bed upstairs so I have living room - as agreed when I moved back in ages ago, managed to arrive back just as I was shoving it into the garage- of course! Cue lots of angry 'so this is what you want, decision made, we r splitting house' etc - IN FRONT of kids who started getting all upset and insecure again.

I quickly deflected, diverted etc to stop the whole thing blowing up in front of kids and hence i am skulking in the supermarket!

I will read through and catch up properly later when I reach the cosy moorland pub- I'm still dodging werewolves right now grin grr wish me strength as my actions and his reactions ramp up........... Xxxx

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 20:42:35

Leclerc I am sure your students will be a credit to their teacher and do fantastically smile

Am in the virtual cosy moorland pub! I dodged the werewolves and am now sitting at a corner table with a couple of candles, a glass of white and some pistachios smile smile another tough day conquered.

PS waiting for the door to fling open as another refugee from storms outside staggers in.... wink

TisILeclerc Wed 13-Mar-13 20:55:12

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 21:02:42

leclerc it appears you're in need of a stiff drink <bustles to bar> what'll it be, comrade? Care to share your pain?

ponygirlcurtis Wed 13-Mar-13 21:17:05

Evening all. Mine's a half. Oh, go on, a pint!

minkembra Wed 13-Mar-13 21:17:44

Hi breath, leclerc.

Parent's night tonight. was a bit awkward but he behaved and the kids got good reports. and they were delighted to see him. so hopefully that Will make him realise he should see them more.

Dillie Wed 13-Mar-13 21:18:54

Staggering through.

Fw is in an oddly good mood. I hope it doesn't mean I will be in for some fwittery in a day or two.

wine for all who need it

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Wed 13-Mar-13 21:21:29

Evening all.

<tucks into the pistachios>

FW has been in touch to say he's 'managed' to cancel a trip and wants to come home for a bit this weekend. Cancel a trip? Never heard those words together before! hmm

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 21:22:23

Pony have a chaser too. No, I insist!

Mink glad it was ok-ish and hope it does serve him a good little lesson.

Dillie isn't it sad that the good moods make us uneasy!

<accepts a glass of *dillie's wine> Cheers!

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Wed 13-Mar-13 21:23:02

Have also heard from FW's parents, who are very supportive (phew! worried they'd minimise it all, but no, not at all) and are beating themselves up about how they should've raised him better. sad

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 21:23:52

Oh Charlotte I feel your pain sad fuckit, it's awful when they reappear unexpectedly.

<passes Bombay Mix>

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 21:24:42

Ah, charlotte, it's sad they're beating themselves up but also very healing and validating for you, hopefully? xx

kittybiscuits Wed 13-Mar-13 21:27:51

I'm getting a vodka and lemonade - can I get anyone else one? Is it true that it's national FW Day today?

minkembra Wed 13-Mar-13 21:32:30

Charlotte, glad you have their support.
Last thing you need is to have to justify yourself to others all the time.

Hi pony.

Yes it was ok but i still feel bit weird. i guess it Will take a while to adjust to the new situation.
glad the kids don't seem to have changed behaviour at school.

Anyway must grab some wine. And enjoy last night of chilling before getting back to study again.

ponygirlcurtis Wed 13-Mar-13 21:33:06

Thanks Breathe. That slipped down faaaaaar to nicely. Oooooooh, the glow! grin

mink glad he's behaving well, for the kids' sake - shame it's something that has to be commented on. But long may it continue!

Charlotte - I have to say, I thought hmm about FW's parents' reaction. They've made it all about them, not about you and what you are going through, or even the kids! Can you put him off about coming home at the weekend? Or arrange to be out for most of it?

Dillie I think it's a good thing you can sense the change, and are aware it could mean FWittery ahead. I refused to look back and saw every flash of niceness as evidence that this was how it would be from now on deluded.

Leclerc - pull up a chair and vent away.

<orders packet of cheese and onion and tears it open for everyone to share>

minkembra Wed 13-Mar-13 21:35:10

kitty grin and sad not sure they deserve their own day.

Funny how it throws us even they are not up to fwittery. not funny ha ha though.

ponygirlcurtis Wed 13-Mar-13 21:36:49

kitty - every day is national FW day! grin

TisILeclerc Wed 13-Mar-13 21:37:32

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 21:38:18

<stuffs a few crisps in mouth>

DM arriving tomorrow. She's going to help me arrange my eyrie. And then we're going out for a belated mother's day Indian smile That'll be after I give FW his big news... (deliver broadside and then run away with my mum, that's how I manage these things grin)

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 21:40:41

Ah, leclerc here you go, lovey wine. You sound like you need it [commiserating emoticon]

minkembra Wed 13-Mar-13 21:45:10

breath you are on a roll. grin

Leclerc how does he not see how inconsistent that is. oh yeah cos he is a FW.

Cannot throw scampi fries at you though. might get messy. what Will someone think if they stagger in for age first time tonight and we are all chucking back vodka and throwing snacks gringrin

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 21:47:44

They might as well just get used to it, mink grin

LemonDrizzled Wed 13-Mar-13 21:49:03

<<pulls door closed behind her and takes off cloak>>

Evening all. Can I buy a round I'm celebrating! My DD1 got a good job today!!
And my FW is abroad so DS is staying with me this week.
Life is good! Time heals

ponygirlcurtis Wed 13-Mar-13 21:49:56

Here, Leclerc, have some bacon fries. You need them. They have very strong FW-repelling properties. (although the scampi fries are probably even better for that, since they'll repel everyone!)

Can you tell him no regards the church do, that you are taking them and it's not appropriate for him to be there if you are. Can you point out to him how ridiculous he's being, seeing as he's missed so many birthdays? or is it simply not worth it?

Breathe - mama-power, tis the best way. You do whatcha gotta.

minkembra Wed 13-Mar-13 21:50:43

Bit of a reprise of st david's day thread.
I got an email today from Dai Hudd. Is he the Welsh Bruce Willis?

I'll get me coat....

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 21:51:02

Lemon yeah, great news smile congrats to your DD1 and enjoy your lovely time with DS. Oh and I'll have another glass of white if you're buying grin

<passes crisps and nuts>

TisILeclerc Wed 13-Mar-13 21:52:21

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 21:53:21

Mink sorry but I spilt me vino on your coat, you'll have to stay....

Dai Hudd grin

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Wed 13-Mar-13 21:54:29

Gimme the crisps! (Have just been reading the Gwynnie low-carb thread and am craving junk food!!)

Breathe - absolutely: all the people who matter are supporting me and who cares about the rest?

FW's parents didn't really make it all about themselves (did wonder if it looked like that after posting) - lots of stuff about how they'd admired the way I coped with his nastiness, wondered about some of the stuff I've said in the past and only now see that I was actually being hurt by it all. I wonder if FW's DF was EA in the past. He seems pretty humble now, and all too willing to see his mistakes.

The weekend: ain't it just typical that my DB is coming over then? FW feels excluded, poor diddums. And he says we need "face time" <boak, with apologies to those snacking and drinking> . That was in response to my suggestion that he emails if he wants to talk! You is so transparent, FW. He doesn't know that I'm not listening to him any more, though, so he can't confuse and obfuscate any more.

TisILeclerc Wed 13-Mar-13 21:54:39

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 21:54:51

leclerc that's the song they always sing, the fuckers, isn't it angry Mine is claiming this too, thinking I'll fall into his bed arms gratefully. He's incredulous it isn't working.

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Wed 13-Mar-13 21:54:57

Think that's the first time I've used the work "obfuscate"! <proud>

TisILeclerc Wed 13-Mar-13 21:55:45

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ponygirlcurtis Wed 13-Mar-13 21:55:57

Awwwww, Lemon, that's fantastic news, on both counts! <orders champagne>

kittybiscuits Wed 13-Mar-13 21:56:31

True, mink . You're not wrong pony . Mmm scampi fries.

I have declined the trip abroad to see FW's family - he has told them I am menopausal and 'having problems', rather than let them know he was pissed every day for 17 years and had an emotional affair (well more than one..), which brought me to the end of my tether. I said he could ask the DCs to go with him, subject to some conditions about they safety. (On a previous trip there, he previously waited six hours to inform me that my DD was admitted to hospital with a life threatening illness). We told the DCs they could go with him if they wanted, but equally they didn't have to. They could chose and should not feel pressured either way. Tonight they both decided they don't want to go with him. Cue him stomping around in a rage. Shouting at me that I 'did everything in my power to stop them going with him' and I have 'destroyed their relationship with his family'. Announces he is phoning his father to tell him I will not let the DCs visit them. For good or bad, I have told the DCs that it is precisely because of these lies that I won't go on the trip.

Of course the reason they don't want to go with him is nothing to do with him having been pissed every night for most of their lives, nor the fact that they haven't heard from their Grandad for 18 months since he started to communicate only with FW when he was at work. No, it's nothing to do with that. At all. He has been shouting and balling how absolutely sick of me he is...well the feeling's mutual. I am so calm. If I could bottle this calm I would be free.

Cheers ladies. x

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 21:56:58

leclerc def keep the BJs away, Sainsbury's every time wink

TisILeclerc Wed 13-Mar-13 21:57:09

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LemonDrizzled Wed 13-Mar-13 21:57:40

LeClerc the hardest thing in my view is deciding what outcome you want to achieve (other than a total personality transplant for the FW)

Do you want to take the boys to the church thing? If so then say so. Do you want to spend DD2's birthday with FW or would you be pleased to forgo that pleasure? There might be an advantage in his plan. You can celebrate with her separately in your own way!

<<grabs scampy fries and eats one then spits it out!!>>

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 21:58:44

Oh, Kitty your fw sounds so like mine sad. Keeping drinking from your bottle of calm, well done, lady smile

TisILeclerc Wed 13-Mar-13 21:58:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TisILeclerc Wed 13-Mar-13 22:00:41

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

determinedma Wed 13-Mar-13 22:01:00

Just saying am still here...

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 22:01:24

<Passes spittoon to lemon and boak bucket to charlotte

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 22:02:17

Hello, determined!

kittybiscuits Wed 13-Mar-13 22:02:32

Yes breathe, there are quite a few similarities. Oh now there's icecream, and bacon much to choose from grin ...

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 22:03:03

Leclerc, Wotsit? <passes packet> grin

kittybiscuits Wed 13-Mar-13 22:03:28

Hello determinedma, glad you're still here x

TisILeclerc Wed 13-Mar-13 22:03:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

minkembra Wed 13-Mar-13 22:07:18

Mmmn dirty minded wotsits. don't mind if i do. so much tastier than ordinary chesee flavour.

LemonDrizzled Wed 13-Mar-13 22:08:09

Here - I've been to the Coop today and bought some Phish Food and Cookie Dough B&Js if anyone is in need.

I have a rule that has got me through that when a tricky decision comes up I think what is best for the DC. Sometimes I have to grit my teeth and endure FW for their sakes. I am an adult and have to behave like one.

ponygirlcurtis Wed 13-Mar-13 22:09:10

Jeepers, i took my eye off to watch the end of One Born <sniffs and wipes eyes>, and it's all gorn off!

Charlotte, glad FW's parents were about you too <gets down off high-horse>.

No, Leclerc, I was subjected to the 'I've chaaaaaaanged' feeeeeeme tune many a time. Apparently I was the problem because I could see that he'd changed cos I didn't have my microscope with me.

Kitty, really glad your DCs have decided not to go, and you can be clear with yourself that you didn't influence them. Bottle that calm, and leave while he's away!

<waves at determined>

Breathe - are they different, the spitoon and boak bucket? Kinda thought it was multi-purpose...

TisILeclerc Wed 13-Mar-13 22:10:00

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ponygirlcurtis Wed 13-Mar-13 22:10:26

mink grin

You are all making me giggle tonight. Needed it. thanks

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 22:10:29

determined, what'll it be? <shuffles to bar>

TisILeclerc Wed 13-Mar-13 22:12:03

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kittybiscuits Wed 13-Mar-13 22:13:44

lemon - you have phish food grin

pony oh - he's not going now! The first words he said when they said they decided not to come 'Well there's no point me going then'. Nice. No pressure.

I've never tried a jaeger bomb. Jaeger bomb, anyone?

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 22:13:47

pony yeah, true, there is only one bucket! plastic one under sink They'll just have to share [stern emoticon]

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 22:15:13

Jaeger bomb, kitty? That sounds like a rather smartly dressed weapon of mass destruction grin

TisILeclerc Wed 13-Mar-13 22:17:05

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TisILeclerc Wed 13-Mar-13 22:17:45

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

minkembra Wed 13-Mar-13 22:18:09

breath grin jaegar bomb

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Wed 13-Mar-13 22:18:14

DFil actually said they see now he was "killing you with a thousand cuts."

<wonders if DFil is a MNer?!?!>

LemonDrizzled Wed 13-Mar-13 22:18:41

You are doing a fab job LeClerc and being the consistent one and enforcing the boundaries IS exhausting. Sleep well

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 22:19:52

Bloody hell, charlotte he must be! Which one of us is he <looks round paranoically>

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 22:20:31

Sleep well, leclerc, night night lovey.

ponygirlcurtis Wed 13-Mar-13 22:21:47

Oooooo Leclerc, I'm glad you said that before me!!!! About both - what do we do about buckets if we're caught short??

But theriously folks, after the day I've had, I need to bow out. Before I'm carried out. Yur all me besht mateshhhhhhhhhh winewinewine

<pretends to be very old Scottish tramp saying 'you an me pal, wurrrr the SAME...'>

Nite all. <wanders off whistling and swinging a cane... no I've no idea either>

TisILeclerc Wed 13-Mar-13 22:23:15

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 22:26:05

Nitey nite smile swing yer cane, love, we're tolerant here, we are!

I'm off too. I'm so tired but so relaxed and happy tonight - maybe because i did the court thing, deconstructed fw's last remaining presence upstairs (the bed, very symbolic) and have sorted job so my life will be a lot easier. Yay! Night all.

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Wed 13-Mar-13 22:26:13

Yep, me too - off to bed with a smile on me face.

'Night, lovely friends.

BreatheandFlyAway Wed 13-Mar-13 22:27:04

Oh and I lurrrrve you all wine

kittybiscuits Wed 13-Mar-13 22:29:48

nighty night x

minkembra Wed 13-Mar-13 23:11:28

Night night all.
Still plenty of fwittery going on but some excellent positive moves in there. charlotte breath big steps to freedom. grin lemon enjoy. night all.

Am going home singing 'we are the champions, we are the champions' laughing at wuuuur the same.

<nip too loo first> never a good idea to stagger out with a full bladder

Night demented hope you are ok. Maggie catch you by the fireside soon i hope. here's tae us, whae's like us.....

FairyFi Thu 14-Mar-13 00:32:03

<throws open door to reveal the revellers have evidently left... eyes the spitoon bucket misused with boak! Notices a couple of wine wine left on the bar, empty packets of scampi fries,grabs a couple of leftover dirty minded wotsits...mmmm..... and pistacchios strewn across sevel tables... yep... all the clues are here! the late night f off FW revellers been and gawn... yawns, its time for bed anyway>

Hoping for better tomorrow Tis hope you can lift your head off pillow

LOL LOL LOL at pub antics.

hoping you all manage to have clear heads in the morning!

<downs the spare wine wine wine .... staggers off singing 'why why why Delilah.... >

TisILeclerc Thu 14-Mar-13 07:13:50

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsMorton Thu 14-Mar-13 07:15:56

I have Delilah as an ear worm now... Thanks guys hmm

TisILeclerc Thu 14-Mar-13 07:22:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ponygirlcurtis Thu 14-Mar-13 09:28:01

Me too Leclerc! It's making me giggle. No idea why I felt I had a cane, but in my head I also had a Mr Pringle-type moustache. Oh dear. Big hugs to everyone, haven't had a wee night out in ages!!! grin

Fi you made me laugh with that last one! (and love our team name of the 'F off FW revellers'!) And MrsM - I'd gladly have traded my ear worm for Delilah - all night, every time I woke up (which was often --blardy DS2--) I couldn't get back to sleep for my brain singing the NumTums theme song. Gaaaaaaaah!!!!

Good luck with FP Leclerc, I'm hoping to get signed up on one (face-to-face or online) soon. And you know that whatever response FW gives, it'll be something that makes you go 'grrrrrrrr'. FP-up!

Maggie, thinking of you too cariad. Hope things are ok.

MrsMorton Thu 14-Mar-13 10:56:23

My counsellors emails make me want to cry. Is this normal?

She says (and I know) that I have to talk to H and tell him I'm leaving but I'm scared to. He doesn't listen and he's a bit shouty and I'm very quiet. He just goes on and on at me and gets angry and I don't think I can do it.

Why why why Delilah (she's only gone and had her weetabix)

NicknameTaken Thu 14-Mar-13 10:58:47

Why can't you just leave without telling him? He'll work it out! I know it's not etiquette in a mutually-loving relationship, but I think it's perfectly fine i the context of abuse.

MrsMorton Thu 14-Mar-13 11:17:33

There's always that option I suppose. It just seems like such a big step. I just stood up to him over something fairly minor and my heart is going bonkers. I think it would jump out of my chest and have an attack of the vapours if I did that.

Where do women get the courage from to do that?

NicknameTaken Thu 14-Mar-13 11:35:21

I left without letting him know, and believe me, it was out of fear rather than courage. It's one way to short-circuit the rage/recriminations etc etc.

FairyFi Thu 14-Mar-13 12:42:55

real tough MrsM - I know, no indeed they don't get to have the polite goodbyes and sorries atall, but its still incredibly difficult to leave, for exactly the reasons you state.

Its hard to leave a regular non-abusive, I mean, relationships, but with an abusive one there is so much more burden to wade through and internal conflicts to manage caught up in that step.

You will find it, as you want to do it, but its important that you do it when you are ready. Its common for it to be 'secret' which speaks volumes me thinks.

I ran in the midst of an onslaught, fled, not very courageous (but somehow it was very courageous!?!?!? confused as it was far more courageous than being frozen it seemed)

this morning's fp very tough going, a couple of real shocks to the system and I have lost a handle on them now which really pisses me off. I used to do that in the face of FWittery all the time, and now things that I recognise that are painful/meaningful just slip out of grasp again, like my head starts buzzing.

I keep imagining myself getting up and leaving confused and then thinking I can't keep doing it, as its too painful. Oh shit ... blurrrgggh... <mojito's just suggested for some reason!> I wanna run away. I'm really not old enough to do this on my own, I don't know what I'm doing.

TisILeclerc Thu 14-Mar-13 12:58:29

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FairyFi Thu 14-Mar-13 13:09:50

so very, yes! I'm sorry for yours too tis I'm trying to get my car sorted out to take my mind off it!!!!! but I've just got locked out of the site as I can't even get my one-word password right, how I can I expect to manage a house and be a mum (without boundaries, and so deluded about the realities of FWitdom).

I am seeing stuff everywhere at the moment that I think is disrespectful, or negating of others feelings, etc. thats why I need to run away sad

I've remembered the thing I forgot its about us provoking to release the pressure of walking on eggshells knowing that something it going to happen and we can't bear the pressure of waiting for it to blow, which then in turn feels like the resultant anger against us is justified because we perpetrated it!?!?! its just too complex for my little brain to cope with.

I'm having a huge 'oh shit I feel so alone' moment sad

ponygirlcurtis Thu 14-Mar-13 13:12:05

MrsM - I think your counsellor is perhaps thinking of a normal, reasonable person. With abusive partners, they are not reasonable. If you are too scared to tell him, or fear that he'll talk you out of it, just go. I decided one day after FW left for work (with him shouting abuse at me over nothing) that enough was enough. I gathered up my stuff and left, leaving a note on the kitchen table. It wasn't easy, and it wasn't courage - I was on autopilot, if I'd stopped and thought about it I would have crumbled. But if I'd tried to talk to him first I'd constantly have put it off and would never have left. Like Fi says, prior to leaving I knew I had to go but was utterly utterly paralysed, frozen.

Funny you should say that, Fi and Leclerc, I've said to my counsellor several times that I don't feel old enough to be doing all this, coping with all this. Sending you both warm thoughts (and warm beverages) after your difficult mornings. brew

foolonthehill Thu 14-Mar-13 13:43:27

hi ladies...good to see so many of you feeling stronger (and not too hung over from last night...ahem!)

A plea to you all. One day when you are not running yourself ragged and can think of it...please check whether you local library has "Why does he do that" and if it does not..put in a request. there are lots of people out there for whom the local library might be the only safe place to read this.

TisILeclerc Thu 14-Mar-13 14:18:20

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TisILeclerc Thu 14-Mar-13 14:32:42

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TisILeclerc Thu 14-Mar-13 14:37:48

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ponygirlcurtis Thu 14-Mar-13 15:27:39

Oh Leclerc. I am running out the door but had to post to give you a hug. He's right. Except that you already are flying. Look at all you have achieved since you got him out. You are amazing. grin

FairyFi Thu 14-Mar-13 16:41:50

hugs for 'waaaing' Tis

accomplished very simple task of logging in, in the end! and then managed to fiddle about with car for some long time to distract me, it was very frustrating grrrr. and not fixed sad now I've got to pay big car tax plus house insurance bill (any consolation? sad )

.... but it has put a lot of distance between me and teariness this morning... so feeling more positive.

BreatheandFlyAway Thu 14-Mar-13 17:28:30

Oh Leclerc that must have been so hard to hear. But the huge positive is that you are out and so are kids smile so fw's power is defused and minimised and his horrible influence will have less and less effect on your dcs.

Fw here is furious as I have cleared last of his bed out and put a single in his old room upstairs. He is bitter and angry. Must try to ignore.

FairyFi Thu 14-Mar-13 18:18:52

oh yes Fly ignoring! wink well done for braving the nerve-wrecking clearing!

BreatheandFlyAway Thu 14-Mar-13 18:55:02

Thanks Fi! I feel very on edge! Xx

FairyFi Thu 14-Mar-13 19:44:17

oh dear sad is he like a toddler having a tantrum? sulk? or is it too serious to be looked at that way? Fly

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Thu 14-Mar-13 20:53:16

FW is on his best behaviour. Staying away for the weekend because DB will be here. Phoning tomorrow to speak to the dcs shock - they will be a bit confused because he doesn't usually do that!

Then he'll be around for maybe as long as 5 days.

A couple of times today I've started wondering if I'm overplaying everything and we could make a go of it. But I've quickly remembered some of the FWery and have got myself back on track. Hooray for finding that easier at last!!

determinedma Thu 14-Mar-13 21:06:06

Hi all. Been reading some of the links and nodding in recognition. Will try and download the Why does he do that book if I can. Then its not lying around.
I'm lurking a bit still but feel welcome with this dysfunctional band of sisters!

TheSilveryPussycat Thu 14-Mar-13 21:14:44

Last time I looked you could only get a paper copy, determined.

Am having a good time atm. And am being whisked away for a few days at the end of the month [grin blush grin

foolonthehill Thu 14-Mar-13 21:15:17

hi determined: sorry and glad that you have found us (sorry you need us, glad you found us)
i don;t think the Lundy book Why does he do that? is available on Kindle yet (despite me lobbying!) but "Should I stay or should I go" is It is not the same but if you are not able to go for oldfashioned paper it may be useful. the other book is available as an audio CD (but I have never listened to it)

Is there a safe place where a copy could be delivered won't regret having one to refe rto

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Thu 14-Mar-13 21:16:01

Kindle book must be on its way, though - there's a preview of it on Amazon. confused

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Thu 14-Mar-13 21:17:25

Ooh, Silvery! grin

foolonthehill Thu 14-Mar-13 21:34:59

I know Charlotte (like the name by the way) it's been there a while...I routinely send a request for Kindle version every time I browse Amazon (not that I have a kindle!!!!)...just in case they actually listen. There's a link to click

minkembra Thu 14-Mar-13 21:37:09

Always welcome determined smile

tis fi hugs. that is interesting re. provoking/ breaking the egg shells.

mrsM if you are ready to leave, leaving is enough. it is a brave thing to do you do not have to be superhuman. i asked him to leave in the middle of one of his rages. i did not give him much warning. but it does not matter him much warning or how many chances, he won't change. there is only a point giving them 'fair' warning if he might actually do something positive with it or if it will make things better for you. otherwise just leave whenever and however you find the strength.

minkembra Thu 14-Mar-13 21:38:46

Just had exe's kids up for tea. grin they are so lovely and i am so relieved not to have lost them. smile

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Thu 14-Mar-13 21:43:07

Lovely kids, eh?... I'm so fed up of mine today. I love each one of them, but I regularly hate having so many of them. sad

TisILeclerc Thu 14-Mar-13 21:46:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FairyFi Thu 14-Mar-13 21:48:50

Thanks Mink

some satisfaction from car efforts today, but just called in to wave goodnight to all. Jeeeez.. shattered.. what IS it about thursdays hmmm tis hmm

very honest Charlotte sometimes (regularly) just too much! If I had strength to send i would hun... have a (((hug))) instead? xx

nite y'all xx

foolonthehill Thu 14-Mar-13 21:58:22

I would like to have all of my DCs...but on a shift basis, sometimes they are just a mob and it's all too much.

(off to make lemsip and go to bed (some chance))

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Thu 14-Mar-13 21:58:51

It'll all be (a bit) easier when I have a working washing machine - there's one small thing I can look forward to!

Off for an early(ish) night. xx

ponygirlcurtis Thu 14-Mar-13 22:07:05

Just had a lovely long chat with a fab friend, who made me laugh and laugh. It was just what I needed tonight - I have been tending to retreat from speaking to people, I'm finding it hard to reach out and connect in RL, at just the point where I need my friends most. Thank goodness for my lovely ladies in the commune and the hilltop pub! wine <dirty minded wotsits emoticon> But RL support is important as well, so I must try and be better at that.

Nite all, off to have a larf at Keith Lemon (never got allowed to watch stuff like that cos FW didn't really like it sucked all the joy out of anything I thought was funny and he didn't ), with a brew then go to bed. Fingers crossed for less nite-wakenings from the little monsters lovely DSs tonight! grin

Thinking of you all.

minkembra Thu 14-Mar-13 22:43:31

Laughing are the thought of the kids working in shifts. mine would just argue about whose shift it was.

the ex's kids are lovely because i am not their mum. so they are on best behaviour for me. Mind you they really are smashing kids. well adults these days 18 and 16 <wipes away tear>

Charlotte shock at no washing machine. that must be tough. i have love hate relationship with mine.

minkembra Thu 14-Mar-13 22:50:31

pony know what you mean about rl friends with not reaching out and about needing them.

Glad you had a good laugh it is so good to laugh. Cannot wait until less of my time is spent thinking about this situation and more on living the rest of my life.

BreatheandFlyAway Thu 14-Mar-13 23:51:55

Fi re toddler tantrum from fw - more of a martyr-ish on going sulk, not threatening though!

I too had a good old chuckle reading through our virtual piss up! (hope someone's rinsed out the boak spitoon!)

Silver - woo hoo! smile

Charlotte - no washing machine! What a pain in the wotsits....

Mink I so know what you mean about less time on thinking about situation and more time on living - I wish that for me too!

BreatheandFlyAway Thu 14-Mar-13 23:54:31

I had a lovely curry with dm and probably bored her senseless by off loading everything! Got a few things straight in my mind.

SO sleepy now, off to bed.... g'night all lovely commune dwellers xxxxx

PS have got myself on FP in April. I'm now a bit scared but I guess the exhaustion and hard work of it is well worth it? [hopeful emoticon]

TisILeclerc Fri 15-Mar-13 06:13:06

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Fri 15-Mar-13 09:27:22

Teehee - I'm taller than FW here when I wear heels. Glad he's cut down to size. shock at state of gum guard!

I have worked out why FW was so keen to talk to the kids this morning - he's meeting his parents and sister later. Probability that he'll casually drop into conversation something about "when I spoke to dc on the phone this morning" as though it's something regular that he does? angry Thinking more of what he does is premeditated than I give him credit for.

Everything is tough today. His impending 5-day visit is looming like a black cloud. Slept most of last night teetering on the edge of the bed with DS's knees in my back. I have a chaotically messy house, a demanding toddler and phone calls to various tradesmen that I just want to AVOID! And DB coming tomorrow is a little draining to be with, plus all the extra cooking and thinking through what we'll do (bet it rains), which FW usually takes care of when we entertain.

Ok, rant over. As you were. I shall devour more Pringles and get through the day that way. Should've bought dirty-minded wotsits - they'd've taken the problems away, no doubt.

TheSilveryPussycat Fri 15-Mar-13 09:42:33

I loved the piss up don't drink much but was out the back with a spliff

pony I found I was laughing out loud at things again, after divorce but before he'd actually gone. Ex would sort of look at me as if I was mad!

TisILeclerc Fri 15-Mar-13 10:08:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FairyFi Fri 15-Mar-13 10:38:18

Wondered what the silvery chatter was about... now i've seen ... woooo wink What you doin out the back with the spliff silvery - much better in good company and sharing? wink

fly FP wonderful (did I just say that?!?!?!) I shall qualify! Validation (sung to the tune of Roy Castle's 'Dedication, dedication... if you wanna be the best...) .... huge!
Working it all out! - massive! - safe place with no expectations of you atall. I am living proof that you can cry through every session if you want... or remain speechless throughout (gaping mouth an'all), or actively involve yourself and find connections with others in RL who are struggling with it too. Basically, go along, feel safe and do it to whatever level you want/need/feel comfortable with.

how beautiful Pony to be laughing out loud and letting go, insights into things being different, huh?

Good luck with the remould tis smile

oh yy to the premeditation Charlotte ! - remember before his DP visits I would get sudden email interest over school/friends/activities specifics! - he was in contact 3 times at week at the time! WTF! Currenlty splitting down Cash & Carry size multipack of Dirty minded Wotsits! Will send a coupla of bumper bags over ...(keep you going .. should keep rowdy toddler quiet for a coupla mins too wink

Dillie Fri 15-Mar-13 16:03:16

My fw seems to puff up when he had one on him. But he is nearly 6ft and I am 5.5ft.

Having a big wobble today sad. Crappy day at work, got moaned at (but gently iyswim) for invoicing something wrong to a big client. Even though the boss was very good about it, still made me wobble to near tears sad

Just to top it off fw has now changed his mind after telling me he only has bank holds off at easter so I booked and paid for dd's childcare. He now says he wants a few days off! So I now have to see if I can get a refund. I am so tempted not to bother asking so he has to pay the extra!

Sorry, rant over!

Hope everyone is OK today

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Fri 15-Mar-13 16:13:36

Ok. I have had an email from FW.

Does he HAVE a brain? One thing he says is how much he values me as a wife and mother. Hahahahaha - he forgot as a woman in my own right! hmm

But the really really weird thing is that he thinks (because I said I can't legally kick him out of the house, I suppose) that I want us to keep on living under the same roof together but separately!! confused Total madness! I did say something about him moving out and the dcs staying with me, but I guess in his emotional wreck state on Monday he didn't take that in. But really - that's bonkers!!

Ohhhh yeah, and the other thing he suggests is that I go back to work and he stays at home with the dcs. Ha! He doesn't give up easily... The first thing he said last summer when I suggested it might come to this is "I'll keep the kids." Seems like that's still his attitude.

Dillie Fri 15-Mar-13 16:24:34

Charlotte that is exactly how my fw was, so has effectively forced me to move out.

Living in the same house but separately is not easy. Some days are better than others, but he does low level fwittery all the time. The only bonus is I don't wash his underwear anymore! grin

Can't wait to move out!

TheSilveryPussycat Fri 15-Mar-13 17:53:02

I knew mine wouldn't go - he couldn't afford to till settlement done. Gritted teeth was the order of the day...

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Fri 15-Mar-13 19:57:42

Oh no... I (naively) never dreamt that he'd kick up a fuss about leaving. And I can't stop him staying - indefinitely? Unless and until I can offer to buy him out or something.

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Fri 15-Mar-13 21:28:39

He keeps saying how sorry he is that he didn't make me feel loved and valued.

Like I'm leaving him because he wasn't expressive enough, rather than because he was AN ABUSIVE TWUNT! hmm grin

Gah, don't quite believe myself tonight, though. And he's coming back home on Sunday and staying for long enough to talk my head into a spin again. A friend said she could see it working already...

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Fri 15-Mar-13 21:29:59

<lines up drinks at the bar and wonders where everyone is tonight>


CharlotteCollinsismovingon Fri 15-Mar-13 21:30:20

Some of those aren't for me. grin

<necks all the drinks charlottelined up after the week she's had>

determinedma Fri 15-Mar-13 21:48:10

I'm here. Picks up glass and retreats into corner

snowshapes Fri 15-Mar-13 21:49:18

I barred myself after getting everyone's names mixed up blush, apologies again, but I will take a drink because I have to deal with FW again and he's just texted me to say what time he is coming, 'hope that is alright'. No, it is not, he knows I would rather he met DC2 somewhere else, but nope,he wouldn't agree to that. So, no, it is not alright.

Not least because everything is a mess and I can't get DC2 settled so I can clear up and FW is the kind of person who would comment on dust under the table, whilst never lifting a duster,I used to run myself ragged keeping the place clean.

So I have ignored his text, which he will complain about too. Argh, why am I even worrying, it is Friday evening fgs.

Hope everyone is ok, will catch up on the thread when i have made this place presentable.

snowshapes Fri 15-Mar-13 21:51:15

Sorry, that should say i have to deal with fw tomorrow.

Dillie Fri 15-Mar-13 22:04:13

Seems to be a night of great fwittery!

Just had a Barney with fw, feeling very wobbly so grabs wine or 3!!

TheSilveryPussycat Fri 15-Mar-13 22:34:24

snowshapes leave the mess. Play FW Bingo!

so: dust under the table

what else is he likely to say?

fi did you get my PM?

<looks knowingly at Fi and Tis brew wink >
<sidles out the back>

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Fri 15-Mar-13 22:49:25

<refuses to comment on the funny smell wafting through the back door>

He is making me feel like I'm making a fuss over not much. HOW is he DOING that?!?!

snowshapes Fri 15-Mar-13 22:53:54

Lemonade, or rather sticky-ness from lemonade, under the table if I don't get round to mopping
How expensive all the travelling is
Something about his family wondering if I am not speaking to them
He saves up all the things he needs to say and lists them off, 1, 2, 3
We are at an impasse

because I don't want to bring up important things like, how is access going to develop, cue rants about me breaking up our family, and he complains about small things. Though his family are not a small thing, but the fwittery comes from them and the narrative is that I am stressed and clearly don't know my own mind.

snowshapes Fri 15-Mar-13 22:55:19

Oh, they are masters at making you think you are making a fuss about nothing.

snowshapes Fri 15-Mar-13 22:57:04

I am talking about two different tables by the way, lest anyone think i live in a complete midden! Or maybe I do blush

BreatheandFlyAway Fri 15-Mar-13 23:18:08

<sneaking in from back door with silly grin on face>

Evening all.

<swigs one of Charlotte's wine and settles down>

OK FP is a go then. I have to kick myself into action a lot of the time. But when I printed early posts on here (for cafcass chat), I realised how much stronger I am now. It's so frustrating how slow and scaredy cat I am, but real progress has been made and I am where I never realistically thought I'd be, thanks to this thread.

minkembra Fri 15-Mar-13 23:28:02

I am just in from the other pub. blissfully FW free.

sounds like everyone else is having a night of it though. so let me get another round inwinewinewinewinewine[wine wine]winewine

I'd sneak out the back too but after the amount i have to drink I'd be needing the bucket. plus i am out of practise cos the ex banned that kinda thing... even though he smoked - made him tense, took fat burners- made him tense, gave up smoking- you guessed it...

And i used to be the master of the foot long tulip;-)

BreatheandFlyAway Fri 15-Mar-13 23:30:00

cheers mink wine. My fw liked to control any attempt at fun on my part, too.

minkembra Fri 15-Mar-13 23:30:09

breath we're just holding your coat. you're the one doing the hard bit. well done! wine cheers

minkembra Fri 15-Mar-13 23:32:36

charlotte stay strong. he is hovering madly...sadly not literally. cannot believe he said wife and mother bit. sigh. well i can. sadly.

minkembra Fri 15-Mar-13 23:33:09

hovering hoovering!

minkembra Fri 15-Mar-13 23:33:49

Flking fws that's all we need

minkembra Fri 15-Mar-13 23:34:35

Arrrhh phone. flying fws. has someone spiked my drink hmm

minkembra Fri 15-Mar-13 23:36:08

snow it makes it doubly annoying when you know what they are going to.moan about before they do it. it is like hearing it twice! wine

TheSilveryPussycat Fri 15-Mar-13 23:37:18

you ok dillie?

charlotte can't remember if you are married or not? Anyway, you won't be under same roof for ever though it may seem like it at times

snowshapes Fri 15-Mar-13 23:44:27

Charlotte, I had a thread on here,after a really bad post-split conversation with FW where he guilted me, gaslighted, you name it. There was one poster who said just imagine a salesperson trying to sell you something you don't want and keep saying no. Regardless of how he tries to sell it, you don't want it, the answer is no. She put it better than that,though.

Dillie,hope you are okay. Hope everyone is okay.

snowshapes Fri 15-Mar-13 23:48:25

I need to switch off the voice in my head, mink. Have cleaned what I would normally do on a nightly basis, otherwise I am behaving like he is still here. Stress.

wine all round

snowshapes Sat 16-Mar-13 00:43:16

Help, help, help, just been contacted by an old flame, long, long story, instincts screaming, as Hissy would say. Fuckity fuck. Pardon my French. But seriously?!?

Ginga66 Sat 16-Mar-13 01:19:10

Hello guys I a back. Was posting about some of dh behaviour tonight and just thought omg its ea again, had a bit of a dry spell where I thought he'd grown out of it actually!
Anyhow I will post more another time.

FairyFi Sat 16-Mar-13 02:28:48

<rushes a bit drunkenly through door, looking for the F the FW Revellers, and see the party is over ! Again ! ... but once again I saw the night out to a rousing chorus of Delilah - but this time I requested it from the band playing in our local village pub in RL, and the whole pub sang it ... Oh I couldn't have been happier, hic! Jus got home and wanned to say hello's to ma girls!>

<I think a rather grey one would have been on the cards for me if I'd have been around earlier for nipping out tha back envy had too many fast drinks! Lookw like you were all drinking a nice glas of red.. i forget now, bt that probably a better quality that I quaffedd this eve>

Will try to catch up properly tomorrow, if I ever wake up, am soo soo tired! not in any state to make any sensible suggestions, or read properly tbh!

love ya all.. all my friends... I hope to actually get through that pub door and find some of ya in there at the same time as me quite soon!? xxxx

TisILeclerc Sat 16-Mar-13 02:47:23

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

trustissues75 Sat 16-Mar-13 04:32:36

Hi all

Lemondrizzled told me this would be a good place for me to hang out. I have lurked here before and posted once or twice. Long back story, cant post a link at the moment, but basically current situation is living with boyfriend of 18 months, everything seems great 95% of the time, 1 pretty damaged boy of 8 with previouz FWH who couodnt take my "intollerable behaviour" anymore and dumped me with a suitcase of clothes, Im 23 weeks pregnant, and since Xmas I think Ive seen a coupe of red flags with current DP. I dont want to over-react, Im concerned I may be hyper-vigilant having only recently come to terms I was in a horribly abusive relationship. Ive been awake last night after a bit of a heated discussion and some of the stuff that was said is just going round and round in my head - is this just a tiff or is this the start of a controller trying to alter my perceptiins of reality - and Im petrified. Lemondrizzled suggested its a good possibility my FW radar is broken and Im really concerned she's right and really need to go over things with a fine toothcomb. So, anyway, thats me, hello everyone.

kittybiscuits Sat 16-Mar-13 05:29:51

Ladies, sorry I missed the pub. Silver next time I'll nip out with you.

Welcome trust, I lurk too and post from time to time. Congratulations on your pregnancy. You must be very worried that you might have picked another FW. So your FW radar is going off. Let's assume it's not broken...give the situation a few days and see what he says and does in the wake of the argument to put things right. It's March and you said you've seen a couple of red flags since Xmas. Please don't ignore your instincts. Keep taking some space and time out to know yourself. I guess you are on amber alert now? It's a situation to monitor - you can downgrade the risk - or upgrade it. But please don't dismiss it. x

minkembra Sat 16-Mar-13 09:20:10

Morning all.
snow good old flame or not so good? Single or not so single?

ginga66 hi.
trust maybe use the thread or a note book to note down some of the things that bother you see how it looks. it is all to easy to lose the pattern if good follows bad. congrats on pregnancy.

tis fi seems like we all got a night out last night grin

minkembra Sat 16-Mar-13 09:44:02

ginga been reading a but if your back story- hope you don't mind. sounds as if there are worrying things going on. have you been for counselling on your own ever? And do you want to share the things that have been worrying you lately? Please don't feel you have to! If touch want to hang out and do some reading etc. But if you need to unburden/rant/ wonder out loud then this is a good place.

ponygirlcurtis Sat 16-Mar-13 11:03:17

Sorry I missed you all last night - not feeling so good, had an enforced evening of sofa-lying, while having some scary chest pains. sad Think it's probably all stress-related though. This morning, my glands are up so much that I can feel them when I turn my head.

But glad some of you had good nights in RL! wine Am v jealous - and living vicariously!

Charlotte - I'm thinking of you. Can you get yourself a solicitor's appointment asap? He can refuse to leave. But, given how little he is at home, how would that look to his image as a loving family man if his refusal to do the decent thing meant that you are the kids had to find somewhere else to live? Maybe you could put it to him like that? Stay strong tomorrow. If he wants to talk, let him, but make sure you don't agree to anything while he's there, give yourself time to think about it properly with his FWittery.

Hey trust, sorry to hear of all the awful things you've been through. You are right to question your current DPs behaviour. Keep an eye on it, post here for advice/validation if you need it.

Reading a bit of the the FP book this morning. Stark, stark reading. I can see FW on every single page - not in every single behaviour or action described, but he is present a lot. Yet I still struggle to correlate his behaviour as abusive, still think of his actions as minor (despite seeing him so much through the book and realising how much I have minimised). I know he was/is abusive. But I still somehow can't quite believe it. I struggle to imagine that anyone could behave like that to another human being. But I have to believe. I have to accept that he is a nasty, nasty man with some effed- up beliefs.
And talk about timeliness - yesterday I received a marketing mailshot for NSPCC, with a story about a little girl and her step-father, how he hated her mum showing her any affection, how he stopped her mum spending time with her, how mealtimes were very stressful, how he yelled at her and other things that just reminded me so much of how FW was with DS1. (And the fact that the little girl had my name, made it feel like it was all unversally ordered to give me a jolt.) I have a lot to think about at the moment.

minkembra Sat 16-Mar-13 11:27:34

pony sorry to hear you are not wellthanks
And that things are emotionally tough. know what you mean about struggling to believe it.

I have totally first would problems on my mind- thinking of booking holiday abroad with the kids and my parents keep telling me i Will never cope with kids on my own. thought about going on my own when i was still with ex as get was always moaning about money, was vile on holiday etc. but never had the nerve.

minkembra Sat 16-Mar-13 11:28:09

first would first world problems.

LemonDrizzled Sat 16-Mar-13 11:34:36

Hi trust glad you made it over here. There is fresh coffee and muffins for all (and herbal tea for the stressed out who should be avoiding caffeine!)

One thing we always remind the newbies on this thread is that there is no hurry to make any big decisions. If you are unsure what is happening and your head is scrambled then pause. Watch and wait and listen. Your DP will either shape up and treat you better or reveal his hand as an FW.

Meanwhile you take care of yourself and the bump and your LO. Small treats and hang out here and read the links so you know what unacceptable behaviour looks like. It will all become clear in time.

For what it is worth I still look back in disbelief at what happened to my marriage after I stopped being a stepford wife. I can't reconcile the man I lived with for twenty six years with the deranged loon who abused me at the end. And he does the weepy snivelly remorse thing too. Ugh!

TheSilveryPussycat Sat 16-Mar-13 11:45:49

Agree so much with Lemon - mine turned into a nasty man. I think it was weakness coupled with unfortunate circumstances, but the man I fell in love with would have overcome his weakness, and had some pride in himself. My Ex turned out not to be the man I fell in love with, in the long run.

BreatheandFlyAway Sat 16-Mar-13 11:46:25

pony lovey so sorry you are feeling so poorly sad and that's really sad, the NSPCC mailshot story sad. But don't forget, brave girl, that you got your ds1 and your other dcs and yourself out. You did a fantastic thing for the kids and for the rest of your life and your kids will benefit daily from your courage. xxxxx

Hi Trust and Ginga (((hugs)))

Mink love of course you can cope on the holiday, probably better without fw than with due to extra pressure and misery they inflict. My family can minimise my capabilities too, they don't know they're doing it perhaps, but it does fit in with the fact I don't have much self worth, or rather have struggled to manufacture my own as I was doled out much during childhood!

I love my family, don't get me wrong and they and I have changed a lot and I am not subtly downgraded any more. But they used to say things like "oh you can't do that, it'll be too much for you etc" in concern, I am sure, but it had the effect of undermining the already shaky self belief I had!

Your situation may well be completely different - just thought I'd chuck my experience of this in because your family's words to you rang a bell with me! Maybe yours just want to help and this is a hint they want to come with you but don't want to force themselves on you? xx

BreatheandFlyAway Sat 16-Mar-13 11:47:50

I have just yelled at everyone in house including dm blush oh dear, think my new found assertiveness is gaining the upper hand, ahem. But I can't always be the healer! Sorry mini rant over, ahhhhh, ommmmmmmm....

TheSilveryPussycat Sat 16-Mar-13 11:50:43

Min you will totally cope! It will do you the power of good. Remind me of DC's ages?

BreatheandFlyAway Sat 16-Mar-13 11:52:17

Silver and lemon I agree too, however, I am not sure mine was the decent man to begin with that I thought he was. He was just (at the time only) better and more stable than my previous bf and also the mad situation I grew up in. I thought he had family values, would take care of me and provide stability. AHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Sorry am feeling a bit wild eyed today! Anyway, now my resident fw is a nasty, manipulative man, but confusingly can also be a fantastic dad when he's not being an abusive dad (verbally and emotionally, I managed to stop him smacking)

TheSilveryPussycat Sat 16-Mar-13 11:52:30

Hi, BreatheandFlyAway's DM via BreatheandFlyAway. Feel free to vent here too wink

TheSilveryPussycat Sat 16-Mar-13 11:53:24

x-post! reply to 11:47:50

minkembra Sat 16-Mar-13 11:53:55

breath thanks. they have Saudi they Will come to help out but in 'if we must' kinda way. they don't like beach holidays. i don't want to do much on holiday just chill. and an airport with kids alone may be stressful but unless my mum has changed an airport with her is stress central. tbf maybe that is because we were kids and that time and that is what she is getting at wink

BreatheandFlyAway Sat 16-Mar-13 11:55:21

The financial situation that has been holding things up looks like it might be easing, our old house is under offer. Obviously touch wood, many a slip etc, but if and when that goes through, life becomes SOOOO much simpler.

TheSilveryPussycat Sat 16-Mar-13 11:55:48

Having your parents there will make it much more stressful and much less fun. Trust me on this one.

TheSilveryPussycat Sat 16-Mar-13 11:56:57

<crosses everything for breathe >

BreatheandFlyAway Sat 16-Mar-13 12:03:10

Mink she sounds like my dm - also gets very stressed and snappy and mildly hysterical at airports! She is no doubt seeing the possibilities of the situation through her own capabilites rather than yours. You'll cope just fine my love, you've kicked a FW into touch! smile

Silver I will pass on the hello to dm smile Don't worry I didn't yell directly at her so much as sideways IFSWIM. DCs ended up fighting badly and ds bit me sad and of course I had to discipline him but his behaviour can get worse when lovely dm is around as she tends to have a short fuse with him and a long fuse with dd so he sort of ends up being pushed into a corner of bad behaviour IYSWIM. All calm now. Am going to supermarket with dm and leave fw with dangerous wild animals dear children grin

BreatheandFlyAway Sat 16-Mar-13 12:05:22

see you later ladies, am going out in RL shock but will stop by the moorland pub to see if you're having a lock-in when I get back grin xxx

BreatheandFlyAway Sat 16-Mar-13 12:06:36

Ah thanks for the crossing of toes and fingers, Silver smile

ponygirlcurtis Sat 16-Mar-13 12:32:42

Thanks all, am feeling not too bad now, the power of painkillers!! grin

I know, the NSPCC story really affected me - in some ways, I minimised, I said to myself 'this story is far more extreme than what DS1 suffered'. But at the same time I recognised what FW had done to DS1 was the same thing (maybe just not at the same level), and the little girl in the story was having to phone the NSPCC helpline and felt suicidal. It was hard to see the similarities there too, in how she felt and how DS1 feels. sad

mink - of course you can cope. You are coping, every day, with them on your own - why would being in a different country be any different? There would be more for them to do, more for you to do, and lots of sunshine. You'd have a great time. Go for it.

Breathe - I get that too. I took DS1 and his cousin to a museum together, and DM was concerned that 'was I sure I could manage?' FFS. And from reading the FP book, and reading about the constant messages that society gives woman - the next time I hear my dad say 'Oh what do you expact, she's a woman after all', or make a comment about women drivers, I am going to pull him up on it and point out that he can't be both angry at how I've been treated by FW and making the kind of comments that suggest it's ok to treat women without respect. I expect fall-out, but really, I can't sit back and listen to that any more, not when my kids (and niece/nephew) are listening/taking it in/believing it too.

Ooooooh, sorry, got all ranty there, got quite angry this morning reading the book and realising how set-up for being put down I was. sad Breathe, I think it's good for us to become a bit more ranty, make people realise we are not walkovers any more!

LemonDrizzled Sat 16-Mar-13 12:45:24

Glad you are feeling better Pony. I think it is very interesting to see how we are set up to accept FW behaviour. My DF does what yours does, although warm and loving he belittles women and stereotypes us all into gender roles. My DB1 is his favourite and they love to sit and drink port together being pompous.
I have found reading Anne Dickson's book A Woman in your Own Right very useful, but after I have flexed my assertiveness muscle and got what I want I feel horribly guilty and as though I should apologise and back down!

ponygirlcurtis Sat 16-Mar-13 12:46:07

Split into two posts cos I could feel another rant coming on... grin

Breathe, have everything crossed for you. We've had a second viewing on our house, keep 'em crossed for us too that something comes of it.

Breathe, I read this comment of yours, and it resonated so much.

Anyway, now my resident fw is a nasty, manipulative man, but confusingly can also be a fantastic dad when he's not being an abusive dad (verbally and emotionally, I managed to stop him smacking)

That is how I felt too. That he could be a great dad. But I have come to realise that he is not a great dad. His parenting largely consists of doing things that he thinks are important and make his input very visible (doing homework if it means getting involved in projects) but not in other things he thinks aren't going to garner him as many 'good dad' points (like day-to-day homework). He is very big on being seen to be a great parent. Big gestures, big meals, baking cakes (all translated as big mess, which either me or the kids had to mostly tidy), a united front at family occasions. I remember a frequently used phrase to his DDs was 'straighten your face' - in other words, I don't care if you're miserable if I've made you miserable as long as you look happy and we look happy together.

I saw it the most with DS1, who was his stepson. He could be brilliant with him - encouraging him to do drawings (because FW liked drawing himself) and spending time with him outdoors (because he liked being outdoors, and he could get the kudos of being a great step-dad if anyone saw him). But it was all for show. The fact that he's so easily dropped DS1 shows that.

Breathe, I suspect your FW is only being a good dad for show too. If he was genuinely a good dad, he'd be able to treat the mother of the children he apparently loves so much a whole lot better than he does. And good dads don't emotionally abuse the kids and try and turn them against her either (as he already has done), or put down their mother in front of them, or threaten her or shout at her or do all the other things.

Sorry Breathe, that all just triggered my anger at FW and his 'pretend good dad' act! Everything seems to be triggering me at the mo.
See you later on the hilltop, by the fire nursing something medicinal.

ponygirlcurtis Sat 16-Mar-13 12:51:25

Lemon - I am the same! The one time I have asserted myself, and told my family that I didn't like how they were being towards me, and stood up for myself (only a bit) resulted in my sister not talking to me for months, and my parents going all 'woe is me, she's cutting us out of her life'!!!! I'm the docile doormat, normally. But how can they think I'm going to draw a line with FW if I'm not drawing a line with everything that puts me down? It's all part of the same problem.

minkembra Sat 16-Mar-13 13:17:34

Thanks all for messages of encouragement. the dcs are 5. They are a bit wild/phone to wandering but we manage and if you prep them before hand they can be wee angels.

Re. good dad thing/ family man. think you may be spot on that it is for show. they like to think they are good dads and they like other people to think same but when it comes to day to day their own sense if importance gets in the way.

i think family values often means a totally different thing to women.

Ex has family man thing on his profile but shows true colours then he says he cannot have kids more.

minkembra Sat 16-Mar-13 13:21:07

Family values = i have a family and i am through most important person in it. they are my family and my opinion matters. i like people to know i have a family.


my family are the central thing in my life and i put family before other considerations including myself if needs be. i enjoy being with my family.

minkembra Sat 16-Mar-13 13:21:43

i am through i am THE

trustissues75 Sat 16-Mar-13 13:29:46

Ponygirl - you're a braver woman than I! I just let my family's BS slide - so not worth the train wreck that ensues if I try to assert myself; it usually ends in my mother being the victim and half the family ringing me up telling me how awful I am to her....resulting in me feeling even worse!

Though I agree - it's all part of the same problem - family giving you low self-esteem and wishy-washy personal boundaries that they stamp all over as and when they deem suits them - or that's my experience anyway.

Feeling very tearful today - I know DP is having a shit time at work but I'm just seriously alarmed after having a hard think about the past couple of weeks and some of the behaviour I've witnessed - and his minimising of my personal past last night....feel like just packing up the car, picking DS up from Beavers tonight and leaving a note...and all this came to a head last night mainly due to FWExH being, well, a FW and taking the piss as usual...

ponygirlcurtis Sat 16-Mar-13 13:41:29

mink - spot on. This is my family, so they belong to me, they are my possessions.

trust - thanks for saying that. But don't think I was brave, just so depressed and confused that all I could do was react honestly rather than nod and go along with it as usual! And yes, it did result in my mother being the victim (head in hands, etc), and my sister refusing to speak to me for ages and then coming down hard on me for upsetting DM. (Never mind how they'd all upset me, at a point when I was about as low as I could get after leaving FW! But it's all 'in the past' now that I've come back to the fold... hmm)

You're absolutely right, my counselling has revealed a lot to me about how my upbringing taught me that my needs and boundaries weren't important, and obviously that made it easy to get caught up in FW's abuse.

Could you get a break from DP at all, maybe a weekend at a friend's or relative's? That might help you be able to see things more clearly. Do you want to share the issues you are concerned about? Might help to get another perspective.

FairyFi Sat 16-Mar-13 14:12:19

Good afternoon ladies <managed to haul my sorry, very tired, very hungover, arse, out of bed and make it out on time today, feeling a 'bit silly' from last night's dancing and overly loud singing, I just don't get out much, excuses!>

glad others' nights out enjoyed, any get love interest? Had a couple of fellas next to me doing reasonably aggressive chat up ... grrr.. wasn't scared though!,. just wish they would treat the strange female race as human, and have normal convo's rather than making hints about many pubs having too many men! and listing interests as 'women' <boak - pass the spitoon!>

y y to (sorry not gonna be able to manage full complement of name checking, as too bleary eyed to retain that detail of info) the mention of 'old flame'? was it? making advances..... my gut reaction right now is, run for the hills, but I do recognise thats not the 'normal' way!?!? Go slow, is my only advice here, which I would take for myself, go slow and go very slow! I guess it's bout having no pressure enjoyable socials only? is that a good place to start? Seems right for me right now, as in, only male friendships if that! because the creeping thought in the back of my head is that this is how they all start (pretending they're our friends!).

I'm looking forward to the FP one where they tell you the rules of the radar on first meeting! So as regards your radar, post ^thread mentions, mines broken obviously and being 'over-sensitive' to things... I do think its far better to be that way, and cautious than gung-ho about the next time, and surely nice bloke understands caution from lady who previously taken to the edge, and beyond experienced FWitttery.

(((Hugs))) Pony scarey chest pains, v. relieved to hear you feeling much improved today, def. worth checking into, I'd think, so you can absolutely rule out anything of greater concern?

Tis good to hear of managing wider family! Accepting our own rights as good mothers, means asserting that and the rest have to just accept it?

but just being our own women/mothers does challenge other more neandertal attitudes! .. but hey, too bad, right? Although a lot easier said than to live with! (not sure about speelling of neandertal???)

umm.. soz Silvery I will check, I think I did I will double-check and get back...

Hopes for good w/end for all FWittery free, or good resolve for plans and out! xxx

FairyFi Sat 16-Mar-13 14:49:12

I am scared of my anger coming out! I am starting to get feelings of rage over everything that has happened. I sit in FP and imagine myself getting up and walking out because its painful to keep staying and trying to hear things like his anger wa engineered and he wasn't actually out of control another thing I should have seen when he instantly snapped into Mr Nice guy when the police tapped him on the shoulder mid-rant!

I feel a sense of welling anger that worries me, and makes me tearful at the same time hmm confused I think this is what they mean about not going home and facing him with it (or in my case heading round there to confront with all the wrong doings).

grrrrr.... grrrrr.

BreatheandFlyAway Sat 16-Mar-13 14:50:49

pony spot on with what you say re fw being show-dad. He obviously does love them but it's all on his terms. If he loved them selflessly, he wouldn't shout at me about splitting the house in front of worried and confused dd, etc etc (so many examples of similar).

Fi grin at hungover post! Glad you had a great time, you deserve some fun smile

BreatheandFlyAway Sat 16-Mar-13 14:52:13

Ah fi it's sad how we are scared of our own anger - maybe because we've never been given permission to feel outraged from an early age.

BreatheandFlyAway Sat 16-Mar-13 14:52:42

I sometimes wonder if that's the root of my panic attacks.

ponygirlcurtis Sat 16-Mar-13 15:47:56

Breathe - you could be right. sad But sounds like you are giving yourself a bit of permission to get your angries out today, even a little? That's a good thing.

arthriticfingers Sat 16-Mar-13 16:03:33


^Family values = I have a family and I am through most important person in it. they are my family and my opinion matters. i like people to know i have a family.


my family are the central thing in my life and i put family before other considerations including myself if needs be. i enjoy being with my family. ^

Spot on

Only it is not that family values are different for women.
It is that FWs have no values of any sort - except, of course, that they 'are worth it.

EXFW did not even understand men who cared about their families.
A few years ago, two men he worked with told him about their wives' health scares. He looked completely bemused and said of each man 'He seemed to be genuinely upset and worried'
As if he could not get his head around how daft some men could be.
But then, he always was a nasty shit (only to us, of course) sad

trustissues75 Sat 16-Mar-13 17:01:16

*Family values = I have a family and I am through most important person in it. they are my family and my opinion matters. i like people to know i have a family.


my family are the central thing in my life and i put family before other considerations including myself if needs be. i enjoy being with my family.*

Does option 2 even exist for men? I'm beginning to wonder...

Arthritic - your ExFW sounds delightful!

Ponygirl - I'm not even sure where to start, I think I might be blowing it out of proportion...

Basically it started with the council tax - just got a demand from them and they're not aware that I'm living at the house, but he thought they were aware and for some reason he thought I was supposed to have told them last July when I moved in. I was under the impression he had done it. I repeated myself a couple of times because I have a horrible habit of doing that (years of not being taken seriously and treated like I'm silly and not feeling heard I guess) and he snapped at me like he's never snapped at me before and then went on to explain that he realises he's fucked up and didn't need it pointing out to him. Then, a bit later, ExFWH calls to speak to DS - 10 minutes late (it was 15 minutes early the night before and I'd politely sent him an email asking him to please call on timeFW calls early and were in the middle of something DS has no wish to talk to FW) All this of course winds me up and worries me because I'm still waiting for FW to bring a custody suit against me here in the UK and he's very good at gathering information and then twisiting it to his advantage. Just before DS goes he tells FW that he is going all day to "somewhere he doesn't want to go to" tomorrow (Beaver East Midlands meet that he wanted to go to and I'd paid for and he's just 10 minutes earlier, prior to FW phone call decided he didn't want to go after - all)

Yes, this bothered me and it really bothered DP - who then laid into DS telling him well done for giving his dad the impression that we're just palming him off on other people for our own benefit: I try to stop him and get him to calm down, but he refuses and proceeds to tell DS he has to be careful what he says to his father since his father twists the truth and is also a habitual liar (DS does know this - after two years of fuckwittery I've had to explain to DS why I can't just let him go and visit his dad in the states which involves his father being an untrustworthy liar who will say just about anything to get what he wants)

I send DS upstairs because I can see things have gone too far and DP isn't going to let up.

Big conversation - he's sick of DS playing people off of each other and I try to eplain that while he has the benefit of 37 years experience in life DS has only 8 and it's likely he doesn't realise the implications of some of the things he the midst of all of this it comes out that apparently I'm tetchy and tense all the time (not true) and that I over-react to things too easily and basically I'm lucky he's so tolerant (he references that recently we have bought a new car seat for DS after I found out that our car seat was on Which? magazine's do not buy list for basically being really and truly shit in side-impact collisions) I wasn't even aware he'd thought I'd over-reacted about this - all I did was my research, showed DP the video clip of the crash test dummy's head smashing into the side of the car on impact and he immediately agreed that our car seat was a pile of shit and we needed to get a new one straight away but last night he goes and says "It's a bloody good job I was off shift so we could go and get another one straight away or you'd have worried yourself into a frenzy." Er, no and what was stopping me going to get one even if he was on shift - I have the bank card, I can drive and I speak the English language and can use GPS to find my way to the I'm really scratching my head over that one...

He did admit that he had completely over-reacted to DS and was sorry. I pointed out that lately he'd come home on a couple of occasions and instead of smiling and saying hello to DS (which he did with me) he barked an order at him about eating with his mouth closed...and I asked him what kind of impression about how he felt about DS that was giving DS....he immediately replied with "Well I came home this evening and greeted DS and he didn't even say hi to me because he was too busy on the Wii...I tried to point out that he is the adult in the relationship nd he was responsible for the relationship...and he did listen..but then throws his hands up in the air and says "but what do we do?", we treat our kids how we would wish to be treated? Don't get me wrong, I'm not perfect...I keep falling into the what I know trap and then have to make an about turn and parent the better way...

The issue of DS constantly eating with his mouth open comes up - dont' know what the deal is there but we just can't get him to eat with his mout closed and meal times are becoming a battlefield...DP points out that I tell DS too..and I point out that the only reason I get onto DS about it is to try to get him to stop so it doesn't bother DP anymore because it's obviously a huge issue for him...and he rplies that right, fine, he won't ask DS again and I needn't be making an effort to try to handle things on his behalf because he is 37 after all...

In explaining why I sometimes repeat myself and am a bit of a worrier I refer to my past and my child hood and marital abuse and he basically waves it off and rolls his eyes...

So I go to walk away...but he wants to carry on talking because he doesn't want to go to bed on an argument...and we eventually get around to me pointing out that he was unfair about me being tetchy all the time and he admits that that was an unfair statement but that I have been more tetchy lately but he hasn't been keeping score (really?!) because I'm pregnant and all and he doesn't want to dwell on things...

He tells me again that he was out of order this evening and then starts to go on about how shit work is lately...and I point out that coming home and being short with us is also making his home life shit and if he can't see that then maybe we're not going to make it.

He says don't say that, and that he's sure with all the love and respect we have for each other we would never get to that point and that he also needs to address bringing work worries home (I point out I'm happy to hear him talk about how crap things are, I am not happy to have him take it out on me or DS)...oh and also...I'm thinking in my head at this point "What respect? You've just been pretty unkind to me really..."

So, I've had all day to think about this and have added 2 other incidents this week (1 where DP just sat down and turned over the TV channel without even asking DS if he minded since DS was in the middle of watching a cartoon) and one where DS was being pretty rude to me and DP stormed in and grabbed an airplane off DS that was in his hand...and it broke...he's yet to replace it but says he's really sorry and has apologised to DS about it and that he will buy him another one...

Add to that the debacle about me getting pregnant and him not initially wanting it and then changing his mind after we thought I'd lost it only to find at an assessment scan that I was in fact still pregnant (we had an argument the night before that scan where he said he was most certainly going to get the snip in the new year and yet the next day, when baby unexpectedly pops up on screen he bursts into tears, tells me if there's anyone he would want a baby with it would be me and that he's sorry he'd been such an indecisive git and he was glad I had stuck to my guns and that after we thought I'd lost it he had realised him not wanting it wasn't what he had wanted after all but he hadn't dared tell me because he could see how distraught I was over thinking I'd lost it and didn't want to add to, if that's the case whey did he tell me the night before he most certainly was going for the snip in the new year instead of palnning to leave it for a few weeks and then telling me how a MC had made him feel and that he'd like a baby with me after all?)

Phew, that's about it...those are the things that are bothering me...

I'm just left scratching my head

arthriticfingers Sat 16-Mar-13 17:07:17

You have quite enough on your plate without this.
You don't need and it is not helping you or adding anything but anxiety.

TheSilveryPussycat Sat 16-Mar-13 17:18:33

trust the thing I'm noticing is that your DP does at least seem to be aware what his own feelings and processes are and is prepared to share them with you. I only have your post to go on, but my gut reaction is that the stress of still having ExFWH in your lives is affecting the whole family. Yes DP vacillates and is indecisive and doesn't know what he wants (till he sees it on the scan), I'm a bit like that, or was. And you are right to state your boundaries and are doing so.

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Sat 16-Mar-13 18:09:06

Wow, there's a lot on this thread today! I've just popped in briefly as DB here and might not be back for a day or so, but just thinking aloud:

FW seems genuinely to think he's a nice person. He will refuse offers of help of tidying up from guests, saying, "We'll do it later," and - you've guessed it - when later comes, it's me who does it all, or at least the bulk of it. But he seems to think that it's something he'd LIKE to do if only he had the time. Am I being terribly gullible, I wonder?!

I suppose it's a boundary thing, too, though - he doesn't see a difference between him and me, so it's fine for him to volunteer me for whatever. Is that a dodgy boundary thing? I feel so selfish if I'm not willing to do the thing he volunteers me for!

Thinking of you all, even if unable to read through. xx

trustissues75 Sat 16-Mar-13 18:12:12

Charlotte - he does not have the right to volunteer you for something and then just expect you to do it. "We,ll do it later" ooh, he likes to look good in-front of other people doesn't he?! What other airs and graces does he put on?

trustissues75 Sat 16-Mar-13 18:13:31

Thanks silvery and arthritic - yes, at least he does seem to share with me...I'm so hyper-vigilant at the moment...

arthriticfingers Sat 16-Mar-13 18:45:56

Trust I don't know if he is abusive.
But he is not helping at a time when you really have a lot to deal with.
Ask yourself whether life would not be easier without him.
Honestly - you have bigger things to think about than DS eating with his mouth open - which will only become a more determined behaviour the more hassle he gets about it.

FairyFi Sat 16-Mar-13 18:47:20

cheers Fly I'd have to agree that trapping (internalising) such strong emotions could well lead to them erupting in disorganised ways like the panics attacks. Practice getting angry! I have never got angry at people in that way, you know aggressively like FW do, but I do get angry bout stuff, but I don't think enough! This feels like the sense of a volcano thats gonna erupt hmm .. but I definitely did have to control my own responses from very young as extremely volatile FW extraordinaire father. Contain emotions tightly was the message, as clearly demo'd by very cold harsh, neglectful, NarcM with no empathy and lots of blame. So there's the thing, don't know how to say no, or spot manipulations, just felt bad with nowhere to take it. So its probably time to do thngs differently! as I keep doing it the same way, and thats quite obviously not working!

Used exactly that example at FP a coule of weeks back Charlotte, yes always 'we' in front of others, or even refers to himself only doing it... but then....

Well done for posting all that trust I do hope its helping to get it all out. I personally think its no bad thing to be hyper vigilant whilst you work thorugh these things! I hope the process of tackling things and receiving some apologies /learning from and making changes all round, will get to a place of more harmony for you all. Don't really want to comment on the 'is he a FW' too as I'm further behind you in that! ((hugs)) for the struggles. xx

Ugh just collected dc from fw. He instigated a conversation about money, implying that what I want is unreasonable since he has the kids a lot. 1 night and 2-3 teatimes, yet I'm the provider of all clothes, shoes, school dinners, swimming lessons.
Have agreed to a figure a month. He thn started a rant about the amount of money I'm 'raking in in tax credits' and wanting to know how much I get. I calmly told him i didn't have to disclose that.
He then started banging on saying I might have another 2 babies yet depending on who I 'take up with'. Was quite bemused and witheringly told him I was in control of my own body, thank you, I certainly do not want any more dc and anyone I am in a relationship with will take that on board. It is telling that he thinks I would do something as major as have more children because the man I'm with wants them, even when I do not.

arthriticfingers Sat 16-Mar-13 19:22:12

Matchsad CSA?
FWs all live in laa laa looney land where they believe their demented ravings carry weight

TisILeclerc Sat 16-Mar-13 19:24:00

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

trustissues75 Sat 16-Mar-13 19:46:39

h, my day just gets better...just had these e-mails from ExFWH (he recently lost in his frivolous court case he brought against me in the States because the states had no jurisdiction to decide child custody and he was petitioning for full custody based on allegations of me kidnapping DS)

I am looking to come spend some time with DS this June or early July. When will he be available for a visit? I have spoken with the British courts and CSA regarding fathers rights and with your written permission, no further paperwork is necessary.

Sent from my iPad

I replied for him to contact my solicitor - which is what I have been instructed to do if he askes me for unsupervised access in the UK - and this is the reply I got...

For someone who claims they are "not preventing me from seeing my son" you're going through a lot of trouble to make it to where DS won't see me but for an hourly court room visit. Also with regard to the CSA and a child maintenance, $0.00 is due because of my unemployment. I will however begin sending money as it becomes available in the form of a US check.

I haven't mentioned a word to him about CSA since they can't deal with overseas claims that even though his income is zero he still has an Ipad...and an iPhone...and a boat...and a half million dollar house that he just purchased with the OW he ran off with.....and he hasn't been to visit DS once since he left us in homeless and penniless in the UK in January 2011....I gave him opportunity after opportunity to come be he refused unless it was unsupervised access to take him away for a week within the British Isles...yeah, ok....why not?!

I replied with this....

How do you know it will just be an hourly courtroom visit. CSA do not deal with overseas child support claims so I have no idea why you are involving them. Again it seems you are misinformed regarding the complexities of international child custody and visitation matters - I have been fully versed. I'd live for DS to see you...Id love for it to have been different but your actions have consistently indicated that you are not a trustworthy individual who cares about our son's best interests. I have been advised again and again that all matters regarding visitation are to be handled by experienced law professionals. I really couldn't care less about your employment chose to quit your job. I can only speculate how you are affording your lifestyle. Now please take your bullying tactics elsewhere: I am pregnant and do mot need the stress. My solicitor is willing to assist you uterus is not liking this stress!!!!!

arthriticfingers Sat 16-Mar-13 20:00:01

Trust You might want to get your post deleted as you mention your son's real name.

arthriticfingers Sat 16-Mar-13 20:00:34

And then repost it

Dillie Sat 16-Mar-13 20:06:20

Hi ladies, hope your OK.

Had a tough couple of days, so forgive me for a self indulgent rant!!

He refuses to pay maintenance when I move out. I told him the CSA have ways to make you pay maintenance by going through your work. He then said well that would be tough if I didn't have a job, and yes it would be to get back at you!

He has threatened this before so he couldn't/wouldn't help support dd.

He then said and I quote 'oh just to answer your question, I already have someone else in the pipeline' hmm

I said well I feel sorry for the ow, knowing she was a rebound gf. He then said I don't care, only doing it to get back at you! I feel for this alleged ow!

This morning he had a go at me for not making him a cup of tea. Then ranted as he went into the kitchen that I was full of crap -words to that effect-

Spent the most of the day out. This morning doing my volunteer work and this afternoon with dd around my best friends house and her family.

Did me wonders, so feeling strong again.

TheSilveryPussycat Sat 16-Mar-13 20:08:09

Trust it is understandable that you have sent that email. But really all it should have said is, "As I requested in my last email, please contact my solicitor regarding these matters."

Sending strength x

arthriticfingers Sat 16-Mar-13 20:34:31

Trust What Silvery said. for every future email.

TisILeclerc Sat 16-Mar-13 20:41:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheSilveryPussycat Sat 16-Mar-13 20:43:10

Dillie well done you have engaged while remaining detached, by the sound of it, and lo and behold, FW has explained himself to you in words of one syllable! More power to you brew

Tea and the making thereof is a very important metaphor in a relationship. Never underestimate it smile

ponygirlcurtis Sat 16-Mar-13 20:47:12

Let me just start with saying Charlotte - it's not you!!!! It's his dodgy boundary, not yours. He should have shown you some respect by not promising you out like he was loaning out his lawnmower or something.

trust - I can see why you are getting upset by his behaviour. He does sem to be saying things that would normally get the reg flags a-twitching. How he's being with DS is a big one. But only you know how things normally are, if this is an exception rather than a rule, if he's stressed (and will take take a telling about not taking it out on his family). Keep posting, if you are in any doubt, it sometimes helps to just rant about it.

Leclerc - I have taken your advice onboard. Tis v sensible. hic. wine Magically, I feel better!!!!! I am jealous of your dancing/night out opportunities. I miss it. I want to go out with friends and have a laugh, and maybe even snog someone entirely unsuitable. grin

Matchsticks - yep, a call to CSa to get their help working out what you should be receiving from him. They told me that it's better to work it out between you as they are going to start charging to use them as a go-between (in a couple of years), but you can still use them to work out what you should be getting.

Dillie - they all threaten that, about quitting their jobs to avoid maintenance. Shows the type of people they are. But glad his FWittery is helping you stay strong!