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Pressure from DH

(106 Posts)
BranchingOut Tue 05-Mar-13 09:40:22

Trouble has cropped up again with my husband...

I am sitting down to write this quickly now, otherwise I am in danger of splurging on the first sympathetic person I see at work.

I have posted a few threads before, so feel free to look for some of my old ones. The potted history is that we have been together 20 years, married 10 and have a son of 3 years.

When my son was 1 year old we went through a terrible patch in our marriage. I had not returned to work (employer refused pt working) so was at home for a year. At the end of the year, after a lot of searching, I managed to get a different pt job. During that year DH gave me a really hard time about being out of work, said he wasn't sure about being married anymore and went 'cold' (not really speaking to me apart from neutral matters, no physical affection, expressing lots of doubt about the relationship). This went on for five months.

My previous job had been a senior teacher (SLT) - earning about 50k but hugely long hours and lots of pressure. I was probably earning the most that I could reasonably expect to do as a teacher.

DH works in the city - long, unpredictable hours and lots of pressure, but earns £100k plus.

We have good standard of living, but live in quite an expensive area of London so nothing hugely extravagant. 3 bed house, but nice car and the occasional holiday. Quite a lot in savings - including a £90k inheritance from one of my relations.

I am not boasting about any of this and count my blessings on a regular basis.
I think we are extraordinarily lucky, wealthier than we ever dreamed of being etc.

The job I have, in the voluntary sector, has all sorts of advantages. It is part time, 3 days a week for now but could probably convert into a school hours job when my son is at school. However, the pay is poor - £28K pro rata. So I bring home less than 20k, which is a lot less than what I was earning before. Plus I lurve my job and colleagues, and they are hugely tolerant of all nursery runs etc. The quality of the work I get to do is also excellent - national intiatives etc.

I am due to get a re-grade (slight promotion, maybe £1.5k more) and last night, before we went to sleep, DH suddenly started asking why this hadn't happened yet and feeling that I should leave to get a better paid job. He came out with gems such as 'I have to shoulder all the burden of breadwinning, it would be nice if you could contribute', said that my employers treat me like 'a dogsbody' and that 'You live the life but I am supporting it'. He thinks I should give in my notice if this re-grade does not come through.

I pointed out that my job might involve him giving some of the flexibility around childcare if I were to get a better paid job, but he seems to think that all part-time jobs would offer that. I currently do almost all nursery runs, childcare arrangements etc.

I am just feeling really upset about some of the things he said and wondering which direction things are going in.

I was half wondering whether to confide in my immediate boss, who is lovely, and possibly hope that this might exert a bit of leverage around the re-grade, as I don't think they would want to lose me.

Feeling miserable and biting back a few tears, but relieved to be able to get this out on MN.

Got to go now, but

BranchingOut Tue 05-Mar-13 09:41:46

sorry for unfinished sentence, not sure what i was trying to say!

EvenIfYouSeeAPoppy Tue 05-Mar-13 09:47:19

If he would be prepared to downsize, perhaps move to a cheaper area, take a step down career-wise, have a less flashy car, more modest holidays, and, yes, take on some of the childcare amd logistics - then I might think he had a point - NOT in being nasty to you about it, but in feeling as if he would like to share the financial responsibility more equally.

However, from your description I get the vibe that he wouldn't pull his weight childcare-wise and thinks that's what you're there for. angry

I wouldn't push for the regrade (although of course it would be nice for you, to have your work recognised). I would push for your dh to agree to relationship counselling and really thrash these issues out. It's not fair of him to resent you.

Good luck.

Thistledew Tue 05-Mar-13 09:47:34

The problem is not with your boss and how much you are paid, but with the fact that your husband values the financial contribution that you make to the relationship more than your happiness. Provided your decisions regarding work are not putting your family under financial stress, why shouldn't you pursue any career that makes you happy? Talk to your H, not your boss.

AnyFucker Tue 05-Mar-13 09:48:38

Please don't use your money-obsessed and disrespectful husband's words to try and lever a pay rise out of your boss, that is wholly unprofessional.

The rest of it ?

Who the fuck does this man think he is ? You sound like a bright, intelligent, independent woman. What the hell are you with such a cock for ?

Oh, BranchingOut, he's being completely unreasonable. I don't think you should have to press for this re-grade, unless that's something you want to do for you and your career. Doing it because dh is putting pressure on you might only damage your relationship with your boss. It won't make dh happy.

I get that he has financial worries and he sees higher earnings from you as a way out of them, but he sounds like he's become absorbed by his concerns and he's not being very nice. I know what it feels to be on the receiving end of that, so have an unmumsnetty hug.

I'm sorry - no real advice from me, but I didn't want your post to go unanswered.

AnythingNotEverything Tue 05-Mar-13 09:55:55

Sorry - didn't want to read and run (and hate to judge), but your relationship doesn't sound very equal. Money is not everything in life, and yet your husband seems to value his contribution to the family higher than yours.

Is your current job a good way to keep in your industry while managing family/childcare? Could it be seen as a short term compromise?

I suspect you and dh need an honest discussion about money, power, roles, and the future - not suggesting you separate, but he may be stressing about money because of a long held desire for early retirement, or paying the mortgage off quickly or something similar.

PeppermintPasty Tue 05-Mar-13 09:58:02

God I agree, it's your husband's perspective which is all wrong here.

It may have skewed your perspective too- 28k is a good wage taking into account all the other benefits along with it, plus what your husband is earning.

What is all this guff about him saying you should leave if you're not regraded? Does he not know what is going on out there at the moment?!! And as you say, the flexibility of your job affords him flexibility, even though he will conveniently ignore that.

You sound happy in your job, he should be happy for you too.

Who died and made him king?

something2say Tue 05-Mar-13 10:00:33

I think the thing is, you are married to someone who values money differently to you.

I was in the same boat. Felt I'd constantly have the huge mortgage and pressure of high paid work year in year out, in order to maintain a house I didnt really want. I left him and now work for a charity and earn the same as you, 28 k.

I would sit down and listen to him and say how you feel, and ask him h ow he feels, and then acknowledge the differences. Maybe walk away from the table with the differences still set out upon it, and not apologising for them.

Twenty years is a long time, you were probably quite young and you may have changed where he may still be motivated by money. Got much in your own name in case a split occurs? X

scaevola Tue 05-Mar-13 10:02:50

Well, he's being a knob, in terms of both when and how he chose to raise this subject.

As he works in the City, perhaps he is more accustomed to putting a price on things, rather than considering value. Appropriate at work, where you seek to maximise the cold hard cash; not right at home where you are seeking the right balance to get the life you both want.

I was wondering why he raised it - is his job less than secure? Does he want to feel less pressured (take a different role, perhaps)? These are valid thoughts, and perhaps can only be achieved with similar lifestyle if you earn more. Have you spoken recently about how he sees his job, and what he really wants to be doing with his life?

You might also like to point out the price of your domestic role. Have a look at ads for a live in nanny and a daily housekeeper. Tell him what that costs. Then tell him the value in excess of that - what it means to provide yourself for the needs of DCs, the stability of a home with united parents and what his role is in that (which sure as hell isn't cold-shouldering you for months over income). Tell him the value of your mental health and the importance of the fulfilment you find in your current role, and how that's worth more than the timing of the pay rise.

Tell him you'd swop money for contentment, and you'll look at downsizing, and ask how much he wants the family budget reduced by.

trustissues75 Tue 05-Mar-13 10:03:32

Wow. Was any of this discussed at all before having a child? Were his expectations that you would continue working and earning your previous amount of money and to heck with the child seeing his parents? Is he willing to look at other options or is this all really on you? He seems to be pretty unreasonable so far...

In fact scratch the above....the whole basically threatening to leave the marriage in that first year smacks of someone who is a horrible control freak....

BranchingOut Tue 05-Mar-13 10:04:51

Thanks, all.

Take point about not speaking to boss, although re-grade is something I have been hoping for too as at present I am working at a level that is higher than my grade, iyswim. Although I would love to talk to a human being about this right now....

We seriously don't have any financial worries. In fact, I downplayed his salary in the OP for privacy reasons and also because I have seen threads where people talk about high earnings go badly on MN. We also have a substantial sum in savings.

That is why I feel miserable - that sense of not being valued.

trustissues75 Tue 05-Mar-13 10:05:52

Also, does he show any signs of seeing value in you other than how much money you can earn while singlehandedly doing most of the grunt work as a parent?

Phineyj Tue 05-Mar-13 10:06:04

Your DH is bonkers -- that is actually a pretty good wage for a p/t job with that level of flexibility! I fear working in the City has completely skewed his idea of what average earnings are. There is a graphic, on the Guardian website I think, that will show you are in the top 5% of earners --higher even. Besides, what does it matter if you can pay the bills and be there for DC? angry

Phineyj Tue 05-Mar-13 10:06:58

As a couple, in the top 5%, I mean.

AnyFucker Tue 05-Mar-13 10:08:58

Greed can do strange things to people's sense of decency, I have found.

OP, your husband sounds like a twat.

coppertop Tue 05-Mar-13 10:09:02

The irony that your dh thinks it's your employers who are treating you like a dogsbody!

As others have said do not use your husband's emotional blackmail with your boss. AF is right, it's unprofessional.

It sounds like he doesn't value the non-financial contribution you're making.

I would suggest being unavailable for a week so he can see how flexible his own employers are, he can see what's involved in your contribution and so he can see the reality of the status quo. Perhaps you can volunteer at work for an assignment that requires you to work away for a couple of weeks? And leave him to it. Then sit down and talk about the additional financial and opportunity cost of you doing this ongoing.

But I'd only suggest it if you think he's capable of changing his mind. He sounds quite entrenched in his views and perhaps lacking in emotional intelligence from the little you've written here.

Don't trade your happiness and fulfilment for a few extra £s in the bank.

Lucyellensmum95 Tue 05-Mar-13 10:20:59

Oh, he sounds vile, just greedy, grabbing and vile - that he would put money over his family - its not like he doesn't have enough of it, whats wrong with him, could he not afford his holiday in St Tropez this year? (you don't sound that way at all - you appreciate what you have, i can see that)

I bet HE doesn't want to redcuce his hours/ reponsibility to enable you to get a better paying job.

<<dreams of a 20k job FULL time sad

Your DH doesn't sound like a very nice man - i bet he is never home for the kids either.

Lucyellensmum95 Tue 05-Mar-13 10:24:04

GEorgianmumto5 - they don't have financial worries, they have a combined earning of over £100k per year and over 90K in savings!! If HE has financial concerns and is suddenly put pressure on his wife - maybe there is something going on that he hasn't told her? An investment gone sour? He has gotten into debt??

Lucyellensmum95 Tue 05-Mar-13 10:25:13

gotten? ugghh, sorry blush

MustafaCake Tue 05-Mar-13 10:27:24

I don't really understand where your husband is coming from - as a family you have enough money to live really well.

What is it that he feels is missing? Is there something he cannot afford to have/do? Does he want to reduce his hours or get another job?

Do ask him why he wants you to earn more when you have more than enough.

PS well paid p/t jobs are quite rare as I'm sure you know!

BranchingOut Tue 05-Mar-13 10:34:29

I think that part of the issue is that some of his colleagues have spouses who also work in the city, so two big salaries.

I knew a couple like this once, although they didn't have children. He earns about £100, she earned about £25k (10 years ago so would be more now with inflation etc) as a mental health nurse. Her job is vital to society. His definitely isn't. He would constantly make reference to how she earned 'a pittance' and how he had to pay for everything. He thought £25k was a pittance. They spent £5k min on each holiday, had new cars etc every year.

Anyway they are divorced now. She lives in a little house in a cheaper area, drives an old car, gets Rynair if she fancies a hol. She is happy as a pig in muck with a new man who earns less than her as a groundsman at a golf club.

Her ex husband? last time I bumped into him he was STILL moaning and bitter. Said that she had 'cost him' £xx of money each year she was with him as he still considered that he had paid for everything. He is still single btw...

There is more to life than money. Many women with high earning partners don't work at all! He sounds greedy and grasping and as others have said, your husband, like my friends' ex, had a skewed view of typical earnings due to only moving in high earning circles for years.

AmayaBuzzbee Tue 05-Mar-13 10:43:07

Just a thought - do you know where all the money your H is earning is going? Could he be living some kind of double life (i.e. paying for upkeep

sorry obviously that should read that her ex husband earns about £100K per per not £100 grin

and to add, sometimes dp and I have wondered if a spell out of work might shock him out of his snobbish attitude.

AmayaBuzzbee Tue 05-Mar-13 10:44:25

of mistress or something?) I don't understand the obsession with money when you seemingly have more than enough to live happily and comfortably.

AmayaBuzzbee Tue 05-Mar-13 10:45:32

Oops, apologies for posting my message in two parts, it wasn't intentional.

BranchingOut Tue 05-Mar-13 10:52:23

Do you think that if I show him some job ads that might help?

hillyhilly Tue 05-Mar-13 11:02:48

I think your dh needs to recognise that your "poor" job goes a long way to enabling him to do his high salary job. He needs to have a proper think about what's important to him. For you to go back to a higher paid career would quite possibly mean a nanny or au pair and more input from him, would your family unit benefit from this? I don't think so. I think that he is valuing ££ but not realising the value of the rest of your lives and inputs. He needs to wake up and smell the coffee.

AnyFucker Tue 05-Mar-13 11:03:12

show him some job ads for what ? why ?

he lives on this planet, does he not ?

Pilgit Tue 05-Mar-13 11:18:09

yes, of course you should, because the job market has a glut of well paid, incredibly flexible part time jobs. What a twat!

Sometimes I feel a lot of pressure because I'm the main earner and sometimes when work has been particularly stressful and juggling full time work with being a mum gets just a bit too much I yearn for my DH to be earning more so that I could find more balance. But these are moments. My DH is happy, he is growing a business and I like being able to provide for my family. I certainly wouldn't want him to become a frustrated wage slave doing something he hated just so that the pressure is off me for a bit. And, crucially, I am able to find balance because it is my life choice to work as I do and because my DH is self-employed he is able to give me the flexibility to do my job. Indeed if I really wanted to reduce my hours my DH would suppport me and we'd both tighten our spending to ensure it was possible. He seems to have lost the sight of the fact that not all contributions to family life are financial. Money doesn't make you happy it just allows you to be miserable in comfort!

Just to offer a different perspective, only you know if it is relevant to your DH.

It is salary and bonus season so maybe he is very focussed on earnings right now. In some roles in the City salary and bonus competition can be quite heated and people are used to bargaining for more money so that may be the norm for him. I could see him going to his boss and saying "I'm not a dogsbody so why have you only given me this payrise / bonus...". (and yes I have done similar myself).

I earn a City salary but so does everyone around me so it is easy to lose sight of what is normal. Your benchmark for normal earnings and normal spending becomes skewed and I suspect that has happened to your DH. It is worth reminding him what an average salary in the UK is as you are probably in the top 5% of earners in the country.

I must admit I did have a bit of a winge to DH the other day about his pension planning or lack thereof (he runs his own business) and said that I don't want to have to work under this much pressure for the next 20+ years to protect both of our retirement incomes.

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea Tue 05-Mar-13 11:48:49

Before writing off your husband as an unreasonable idiot it might help to sit down and try to specify exactly what his issues / concerns are - if he is willing to have a calm, rational discussion.

It sounds like you are working in the ideal job now. What do you see yourself doing in the long term? Is your husband happy in his job? Does he feel secure? What would happen if he were to lose his job, or would he like to take a less pressured role and take on more of the childcare / household work?

I am the main earner (of a much more modest wage it has to be said!) and DH is a SAHP although he does also contribute a decent income from investments built up before we married. Every now and again the pressure of wanting the best for all of us financially gets to me but I would never be so crass as your DH.

Also I would second the posters who said not to confide in your boss, but it's perfectly legitimate to have a conversation about a regrade.

Good luck.

MustafaCake Tue 05-Mar-13 11:57:49

If both of you have F/T, long hours jobs your family life will be very different to how it is now.

Is that what you and your husband want?

joblot Tue 05-Mar-13 12:18:35

FWIW I would hate to be in a relationship with someone who treats me with contempt and is so mean into the bargain. Your h sounds like a selfish arse, the type of greedy person who makes the world a less pleasant place to live in. Just my personal thoughts on what you've written

PatriciaHolm Tue 05-Mar-13 12:32:06

He sounds like a mean man, who has no consideration for you.

We are in a very similar position; very high earning DH, I work 50% in a very flexible role, but something I can only now do because I've spent 15years in the industry establishing trust and credibility. I also work from home most of the time. I earn more than you, but still only about 20% of our household income.

The difference is, DH loves this. It works really well; I do most of the school runs etc, though he works from home occasionally when I have meetings. We both agreed that someone being here for the kids at the end of school was important, and that has the inevitable effect on salaries. I admit I love my life too; i do get more time off than he does, but he doesn't mind that as I also do all the tedious stuff. He's off to watch both football and rugby this weekend so he doesn't do too badly ;-)

Your Dh doesn't value you in any way other than financial, and that's terribly sad. Does he have any concept of how hard it would be to find a well paid part time school hours job?

Have you life insurance? Calculating how much it would cost to employ people to replace me was interesting....!

Clearly what he said was twattish. But I think it would really be worth a calmer conversation to see if there are genuine concerns that lie beneath this. Namely:

1) Is his job at risk and is he under a lot of pressure of work? So many redundancies around at the moment - maybe he's under more stress than he is willing to let on.

2) Re the dogsbody comment - you said yourself that you are working above your grade, and it sounds like he perceives that you are being taken advantage of and is possibly angry on your behalf, iyswim. Clearly £1.5k is trivial in the scale of what you both earn so in his eyes it's probably more the principle of it.

littlemrssleepy Tue 05-Mar-13 12:39:27

Wow. I have a very similar situation to you, although having moved whilst on mat leave and therefore unable to return to previous job, I am currently largely a SAHM, albeit trying to set up my own business. My husband is well aware that the reason he can do his job and earn his money is because I took a hit on mine. Whilst I do wish to return to the workforce and have some financial independence (everything we have is equal but I'm not niave enough to think nothing could possibly go wrong with our marriage - particularly after some of the horror stories on here!) there is no pressure from him to do so, probably cos he realises it would make his life harder. If he acted like your DH I'd be telling him fine, I'll get myself a 50k job, will do half the nursery / school run, one week of the inevitable 2 week chicken pox exclusion, half the school holidays. It would then be up to him to ensure he could pick up the slack - which would mean him getting a new, almost certainly lower paid role.

That said, when people do earn a lot they do have a warped view of what is good money. I think if I got a job at £25k my DH would feel I had undersold myself because he knows I am 'worth' more and have the skills and experience to earn more, even with the flexibility you describe. Are you sure you are not misinterpreting what he is saying - he thinks your employers should value you more, as opposed to putting pressure in you to make money per se?

discophile Tue 05-Mar-13 12:41:20

The fact is that you have been together for 20 years. This suggests to me that for a long time you have bought into the idea that gathering money and living a high standard of living is important to you. In fact is important to both of you and this is the way you have lived your life throughout your relationship - No? You chose this man did you not? Did you not think about the values of the man you chose? The man you chose as the parent of your child/children. (To me, his values sound utterly, utterly repulsive. But I have different values).

Now it seems something in you has changed. You are finding a job that you consider poorly paid (£28k per year, pro rata) rewarding, challenging and enjoyable. Maybe you have changed and he hasn't. Will he accept that your values have changed? Can you explain to him that your values have changed?

Good for you for doing something in the voluntary sector. Many people find it highly rewarding and accept the lower salary it might come with. It sounds like your husband has no idea about the wider world.

StillSeekingSpike Tue 05-Mar-13 12:43:06

But sadly - £25k is a fairly normal salary in the voluntary sector- and in many other sectors as well. They can pay like this as they know the jobs are very sought after because they can be very enjoyable. It's your husband who has the distorted view of a salary.

Peka Tue 05-Mar-13 13:12:10

I think the big issue is not what you earn etc it's that he's treating you really poorly. You need to tell him (in whatever words you use) that he's being a rude, entitled twat and that you didn't enter a relationship to be abused like this. I earn a lot less than my dh and this is actually quite a financial problem for us but he respects me and understands that someone needs to be there for our child. I am having to go for better paid work because we are very tight for money but he is supporting me and stated that he wants me to be happy and valued in my job and developing myself more than the money I think I'm more preoccupied with that.

You are a person in your own right not just a mum or financial contributor to a household and you deserve to be valued and nurtured by your dh!!!

pausingforbreath Tue 05-Mar-13 13:23:16

He sounds like a complete tit over this - unless I have read this wrong.
He's up in arms over a possible 1.5PA.? Which equates to what, an extra £29 per week before deductions.
I know to many this would mean a huge help to the family finances of many families - but reading your post through, it's not going to change your lifestyle is it...
He needs to grow up, you and he are in a partnership together bringing up your son.

Sadly, having a child means a drop in income to the partnership . Either one either stops working, drops hours or changes career to fit around the child , or the cost of childcare needs to be factored in.

Also, having a child changes things full stop. Another Person is added into the partnership and needs considering.

To expect it to be the same, with both your earnings unaffected is simplistic and naive at best.......

As I said - he's being a tit.

BlingLoving Tue 05-Mar-13 13:31:08

He's living in a dream world if he thinks you can find better paid work while still doing the bulk of child and home care.

Is he unhappy at work? Is he worried about his job? Those ar the only reasons I can think of for his comments to be even vaguely ok.

Fairylea Tue 05-Mar-13 13:31:27

Where is the partnership here ? Your dh sounds like a twat. Money can't buy an equal relationship.

Hmm. I don't know where to start really. He doesn't see your contribution as equal... does he? Even though you shoulder the burden of everything to do with childcare etc... so if he didn't have you he'd have to do it and then where would that leave his career? Try billing him for childcare and travel arrangements for the children... !

Me and dh earn peanuts compared to you. I'm not bitter or anything, I'm just saying that despite earning just about 20k all in all we manage ok - we are on the same page financially. I am a sahm, we have two dc, we have a joint account, all our money is our money, we have joint spending money - split equally.

I have worked in very demanding jobs in London in another life and we made the decision to move to Norfolk where life is generally cheaper.. not a decision for everyone I know. But what I'm trying to say is you really need to work as a team, and I don't get that feeling from you about your dh at all.

Catkinsthecatinthehat Tue 05-Mar-13 14:13:20

OP, I had a look back at the previous threads you alluded to, and it's clear that your h's behaviour has been poor for a very long time, years in fact. Frequently tearing you to shreds, giving you the silent treatment for days on end, telling you he's not sure he wants to be with you, that are a vile person with a slobby physical appearance and so on. I agree with the posters who think that working in the City gives a skewed perspective on what is a 'good enough' income really is, but really it's you, not your salary that he is incredibly contemptuous of. This is a man who gets horribly pissed off at you as the manner in which you walk down the street offends him.

I really don't know what to suggest as it's clear that you've tried hard to fix this, but he doesn't see a problem, won't attempt counselling, and sees all the fault with you. You've had a baby, lost a job, made a career change and are successfully raising a child. I'd give you a un-mumsnet hug (and salute you!). You're doing brilliantly, but your self-esteem must be on the floor after years of this.

BranchingOut Tue 05-Mar-13 14:13:42

The only mitigating factor I can think of for him is that he has been under some pressure at work and didn't get much of a rest over the weekend. I had a long-standing arrangement to go out for the day on Saturday, to meet a sibling whom I only get to see a few times a year. On Sunday I normally take our son out in the morning and he gets some pottering-around time, but I woke up unwell (vertigo/dizziness) and was not really fit to do it. However, I acknowledged this and apologised for his lack of a lie-in. DH spent most of the afternoon upstairs while I looked after DS, as I was feeling better, so did still get some down-time.

Values. Well, we met when we were in our late teens so it was a bit difficult to tell. Through the early part of our relationship I was always quite interested in going in to teaching or the voluntary sector. He was always focused on this City type role. But salaries were different then - at the time, someone with a few years experience in his role would probably earn twice what an experienced teacher would earn, not the huge differentials there are now.

Have I gone along with this? In some ways, yes. Obviously I have benefitted from the lifestyle his salary has brought us, but I have always contributed to the joint account in proportion to my salary. I am also not a big spender, I buy mid-range brands and don't have any expensive hobbies. I am doing a postgraduate course, pt, (to support my job) but am paying for that using a small amount of the inheritance I received.

An ongoing theme has been him hassling me about whether I am saving, how much I am saving, what am I keeping back from my salary, even before we had our child. I was so fed up that with this job I just arranged for my salary to be paid straight into the joint account, then I take out £300 approx for my own expenses, transport etc.

There is also a sense in which I am quite happy with slightly more modest things in some areas - of course I love the expensive car and kitchen, who wouldn't? But I would have been happier with the cheaper alternative.

BranchingOut Tue 05-Mar-13 14:15:26

Just seen your post Catkins. Thank you, I don't know what to say.

PanickingIdiot Tue 05-Mar-13 14:18:41

I seriously don't understand the "shouldering the burden of breadwinning" argument. It gets trotted out a lot, but WTF does it supposed to mean? That he works for a living? Don't we all? What would he do if he was single? Who would earn the money then? Would he not work the exact same hours for the exact same wage as he does now? So what burden does he shoulder exactly?

It would be different if it was you pushing him to do longer hours because you wanted a bigger house and a flashier car, but this shite about oh-it's-so-hard-to-go-to-work-I-deserve-a-medal-for-it argument is usually trotted out by people who aren't exactly forced into their (very) high-paying jobs against their will.

this will sound awful but my gut feeling is he wants out but loathes the idea of having to pay child support and maintenance to you whilst you work part time only in a job you love.

did he want a child or was his reluctance the reason you left it so long?

yep - mulling on it - i think he is talking about the future not now. as you're fine now and no hardship. he's thinking about if you split and you're still earning this amount and you get your share of all the capital etc imo.

please don't scurry around showing him jobs. gut feeling this is nothing to do with jobs really.

trustissues75 Tue 05-Mar-13 14:43:23

OP - I've just gone and had a quick read too...just a very brief skim, but his behaviour after your child was born set alarm bells off in my you know you are suffering Domestic Violence? Because you are. There's a thread on here for support for those in emotionally abusive relationships....with lots and lots of links at the top of the thread - might be worth you having a read.

Hugs to you.

Bogeyface Tue 05-Mar-13 14:54:28

Are your savings seperate from his? If not, your first move must be to put your inheritance and your portion of the savings into an account in your name only.

I would hate to see him suddenly remove your access to your money.

I agree that this may well be about the fact that he has found out that the less you earn, the more he will have to pay you in child maintenance. Which says everything you need to know about the man.

An exit plan would be a good thing for you to think about. Good luck xx

PanickingIdiot Tue 05-Mar-13 15:00:13

Hmm, but he's also suggesting she quit her job if she doesn't get the payrise. She'll be unemployed then.

I don't think he has thought this through, to be honest. It sounds like he's just ranting at her because he has his head so far up his arse he doesn't understand how good he has it.

Bogeyface Tue 05-Mar-13 15:01:33

I understood it to mean that he wants her to quit for a better paid job, not give up work altogether.

badinage Tue 05-Mar-13 15:02:49

Afraid that this has all the hallmarks of an emotionally abusive, unfaithful man who's looking for an exit.

Haven't read any other threads but that 'bad patch' you had was surely an affair? I should think he is unpleasant to live with most of the time, but saves his worst behaviour towards you when he's got a new woman on the go, so this is why you're getting a fresh batch of complaints now.

Dryjuice25 Tue 05-Mar-13 15:27:40

Definitely something wrong with this banker husband of yours? Why can't he consider the dc in his argument. He is not some kind of martyr at all.He is a grabbing, selfish greedy individual whose marriage will implode just like the banks did because of pure greed and disrespect for you. WTF

Does he actually love you?

Astelia Tue 05-Mar-13 15:49:34

OP this sounds a horrible way to live. Ask yourself do you want the next three years to be like the last three? If not then something has to change.

Your DH sounds nasty, arrogant and critical. And soon your little boy will start noticing what is going on.

As others have said, you taking a PT position enables him to work all hours. Without you at home you would both have to employ staff which would cost a fortune. Also your DS would not see much of either of his parents. Is this what he would prefer?

onefewernow Tue 05-Mar-13 17:41:05

Branching out , this behaviour is not about what you have or havnt done, what you look like or wear, or anything else.

It is all about him being insecure and unhappy in himself, and preferring to take it out on you rather than amend himself.

My brother would never tell his wife that he is failing to cope as well as he thinks he should with his high pressure job, or that he uses a bullish approach with others in order to avoid dealing with himself. His anger is his anger at himself. His critucism of your job or appearance is him externalising his feelings about how others see him, not you.

BUT there is no reason at all why you should listen to it. Stop justifying and stop explaining. Tell him you are happy as you are, want no further discussion about what YOU need to do, and that if he has a problem with that he can fuck off , and you can get maintenance.

You are contributing alright, but you are partly contributing to your own abuse, if you let him get away with this. It is about respect for your life and your decisions. He isn't in charge of YOU.

I think you might want to spend more time on the relationship board looking got patterns about how these relationships operate, because then you will be able to notice that his lack of respect got hour equal partnership is probably evident in far wider ways than over money and work.

I hope that man has a shock coming to him. Final tip- I found ab

onefewernow Tue 05-Mar-13 17:43:53

For your equal partnership - bloody phone.

My tip is to notice whether you tell uoursf you are assertive be shed you argue back. Whilst at the same time letting him win. I used to do that, and never saw it in myself because I appear outwardly strong.

onefewernow Tue 05-Mar-13 17:44:22


AnyFucker Tue 05-Mar-13 19:25:06

I was going to search for your back threads, as they have been mentioned now

But actually, I daren't

Because I have already been very harsh about your H on this thread. And I suspect there won't be any more words harsh enough if all his behaviours towards you were listed here. sad

thecook Wed 06-Mar-13 22:55:51

I am sure I remember one of your old threads where your piece of shite of a husband was suggesting jobs to you and their earning potential.

Get yourself to a family law solicitor love.

Tortoiseonthehalfshell Thu 07-Mar-13 04:16:47

An ongoing theme has been him hassling me about whether I am saving, how much I am saving, what am I keeping back from my salary, even before we had our child. I was so fed up that with this job I just arranged for my salary to be paid straight into the joint account, then I take out £300 approx for my own expenses, transport etc

And by any chance does your husband keep back most of his salary for himself, only paying an agreed-upon amount into the joint account?

BratinghamPalace Thu 07-Mar-13 04:41:03

I have NEVER seen a more absurd thread. The op should be marching into the divorce courts by now simply because the DH is feeling under financial pressure. Really? There are maybe two sane voices on here that suggest a conversation with this man. Maybe he hates his bloody job. Maybe he wants to dial down and does not know how. There are a thousand maybes here besides an unfaithful, greedy whatever and all other absurdities that have been thrown at a man none of you know.

Lavenderhoney Thu 07-Mar-13 05:16:50

First of all, make sure your inheritance is in a separate account and open a bank account for your salary. Ensure you have copies of everything, pension stuff, other bank accounts everything. You might already have a will in place with trustees so it's a good place to start to get information.

He sounds as though he thinks he is carrying you and has no concept of marriage being a team, not everything you bring is measured by money. Unfortunately his work life has conditioned him to measure everything by money which appears to include you.

You have to spell out to him that benefits such as school run, time with your ds, etc are things you want to do as part of being a parent, and it won't last forever ( if that's the way you feel)
I don't advise changing your job or hassling for more, especially if you love it and it has the flexibility you need.

You do need to talk though, and if he just wants things to go back as they were or is unwilling to see the benefits of your life together and how your choice of job helps, only then can you decide. He will probably try to negotiate and be hard with no compromise and backing you into a corner, as that works at work with all the other blokes however you are his wife and require an empathy and sense of " in it together" and you all win, not just him.

TheThickPlottens Thu 07-Mar-13 06:23:27

If this were me, i would sit down with him. Tell him it's a meeting, no phones on and it's lasting an hour. He sounds like he's in that kind of work environment so this might get him taking your discussion seriously.

Ask him how he feels about the "burden". Find out what he's worried about not having enough money for. Explain how your job pays and what you want from your career. Don't let him insult you during the meeting.

From my own experience with financial worries and a high earning but saving like mad husband, those meetings work for us. Worth a shot.

Or real counselling with a third party. The cost of that should scare him into listening to you seriously at home.

Having childcare costing figures in your head might be helpful.

P.s. I did see the irony of him accusing your work treating you like a dogsbody whilst he's dictating your career.

BranchingOut Thu 07-Mar-13 08:50:16

Thanks everyone, an update.

The last couple of days have been ok but a bit of tension under the surface. I am sure that if I had just let it go, it would have disappeared.

Last night he wanted me to do something personal for him (physical but non sexual) and I said that I was still feeling really hurt by some of the things he had said. He seemed a bit surprised, said 'What did I say, then?'.

I quoted back the things he said, as listed in my OP and said that talking like that made me feel really small and non valued.

He did not apologise but said something along the lines of he thinks my employer should just pay me properly. I said that I had faith that it would all come right in the end there, maybe in another couple of months (as the regrade is in process) so what did it matter?

I pointed out that I was making a contribution, albeit small (my net pay is a bit under £1k per month, which covers nursery plus my own expenses) and that was still to be valued. I also said that my work offered many other advantages for example, the possible opportunity to convert to school hours in the future.

He said that many private sector organisations would offer similar pt working flexibility - I said, what job am I supposed to do in a commercial organisation, given my skills and experience?

He still insisted that I had 'no idea' how expensive it was to live in London and that I 'have the luxury of this job without the pressure to get something higher paid'. I said that i didn't imagine the colleagues of his who have SAHM as wives (there are a few) were going home and talking to them like that.

I said that if he wanted to do something different then I would be more than prepared to downsize accordingly.

He didn't respond but made general 'it would be impossible' noises.

In the end I told him that he had totally lost perspective, that we were hugely fortunate in our income, good health and our beautiful son, given the fact that some of our contemporaries are now being diagnosed with life-limiting illnesses. (one of his ex-colleagues has a neurological disease and the spouse of one of his colleagues died over Xmas).

He still insisted that I had lost perspective and we more or less ended the conversation there. I have said my piece and am certainly not intending to hand in my notice, so I will leave it there for now.

LTB? Not right yet. But my faith was badly shaken by the five-month episode a few years ago and I am in two minds whether it will work out in the longer term. I have counselling (he does not know) in my lunchhour, just to have someone to talk to occasionally.

A bit of me wonders if he reacts badly to episodes of pressure, as during the episode a couple of years ago he was sometimes saying things that were not entirely making sense. I offered to take our son to his mum's overnight this
weekend, to give him some down-time, but he did not really react to this.

Thanks again, it has been hugely helpful to use MN just to get some of this out.

BranchingOut Thu 07-Mar-13 08:52:21

For info, inheritance is in joint acc but I do have about 6K in personal savings.

I've read most of your post, Branching and your H sounds very controlling. Controlling and seeming to believe that money/status are all.

I gave up a good job in the city a few years ago. I was earning around £50k, but was incredibly unhappy. One day I'd had enough. Told my DH and said I wanted a career change.

I left the job and started to study a full-time degree. I've now qualified and have started on a Masters.
My H works, but earns under £18k. At the moment we're living off that and savings, which are also funding the course.

We don't live in London, but do run two cars and have a small child. We go on holiday once a year. We do have meals out/takeaways from time to time.

I suppose what I am saying (in a clumsy way) is that is it is perfectly possible to manage to be quite comfortable on a reduced salary. Your H should appreciate this, and be aware that happiness and quality of life are far more important than how much someone is earning, and constantly striving to make more £££.

To some extent he sounds like someone I know. But there are other factors involved there. Warning bells still ring for me sometimes when I hear about that relationship.

Even if you decide that for now, it's better to stay put, I think you need to ensure that you have more independence, financially.

GoodtoBetter Thu 07-Mar-13 09:24:47

What a horrible way to live, he sounds really bullying and unpleasant. I hope you are OK. xx

Bloody hell, it just goes to show that money doesn't buy you happiness. You're thread makes me sad OP. I'm a lone parent on far less than what you alone earn (doing a job I love). I've a feeling if I'd stayed married I'd have ended up under similar pressure. You do deserve so much better than this.

Your DH's behaviour reminds me a bit of a thread that caused a bit of a bunfight a while back where someone whose family had a very high income was concerned why she didn't feel richer (didn't appreciate what she had got).

I wonder if your DH has expectations of the lifestyle that his income should allow (especially if he is comparing himself to 2 high income couples) and some how doesn't feel like he has got what his salary should bring in. To most people if you say you have a 6 figure salary they would assume you are living like a king but if you live in an expensive part of London and send your children to private school then you have spent a fair bit of your disposable income on those choices. The problem arises when you start to see the expensive house and the private school fees as necessities (because that is what everyone you know is doing) so you only count your disposible income after these (optional) "necessities". Suddenly it can feel that you don't have much money because you are spending £3-4K a month on mortgage and school feees and forget that the ability to spend that much is a luxury.

fees not feees (freudian slip based on my feeling that the fees are huge!)

trustissues75 Thu 07-Mar-13 10:32:53

Brattinghampalace - I think you're missing some very vital parts of the post. Some of us on here have been in abusive controlling relationships and this man is showing a lot of red flags for it! Not to mention some of us are reading this thread in the context of the poster's previous threads about her husbund and how he treats her - have you read the poster's previous threads? Because his behaviour has been horrible towards the poster. This is just another episode in his fuckwittery.

If this were an isolated incident people would probably be saying different things, but this incident, coupled with his actions ater bubs was born, coupled with information from previous posts points rather heavily towards a controlling, abusive individual who has little respect for his partner apart from what she's worth to him monetarily! Is it absured to comment that the poster has far more value than this? Is it absurd to point out a pattern of behaviour that is being indicated in this and previous posts? No, it is not. So many many people do not recognise abuse when it is happening - abuse is not just a black eye.

trustissues75 Thu 07-Mar-13 10:35:43

In addition, Brattinghampalace, he may well feel under a lot of pressure, he may well want to downsize, and a solution may be found and all of this behaviour may disappear....but I'm willing ot put my last penny on this man continuing to see his wife as nothing more than a paycheck and any solution that is found will not last long, no will any changes in his behaviour.

PanickingIdiot Thu 07-Mar-13 10:58:31

He earns more than 95% of the working population. If he feels he's under financial pressure he's doing something wrong. Either spending beyond his means or having massively unrealistic expectations.

I don't understand what he thinks will be achieved by you changing jobs either. How much does he think you can earn in the private sector with your skills, working part-time and with the flexibility you enjoy in your current job? I can't imagine the difference to be significant vs. your current salary, and I don't understand how, even if you ended up earning a couple hundred quid more, would that ease the pressure he feels he's under. What is it that he can't afford now but would be able to afford if you earned, say, 5K more p.a.?

To me, it still sounds like somebody talking out of his arse without really having thought this through. I second the suggestion of sitting him down in a serious manner to find out what's going on in his head, because the things he says now don't add up to anything that could be addressed in any meaningful way.

LessMissAbs Thu 07-Mar-13 11:04:34

I was going to ask you what his colleagues's wives did! So his peers at work mostly have SAHMs, but he is complaining about your (good) earnings and consistent employment record and has also got his hands on your 90k inheritance by having it in joint accounts? Hmmn.

His attitude is quite odd, so I wonder if there is anything that explains it? Does he lack self confidence (and is he one of those men whose attraction to women depends on material things/the woman being some sort of high achiever)? Does he come from a divorced home where there was a large and expensive divorce settlement? Or a family that was troubled by debt? Or is he terribly stressed at work and worried he will lose his job?

Although I don't agree that all women should or must not return to full time work after having children, there are so many women who never return at all, or who never started! Have you tried laying down the law to him and simply pointing out this (and the inheritance)?

HuwEdwards Thu 07-Mar-13 11:16:59

He sounds jealous to me. His sub-text is "me and my colleagues and their wives are all slogging our guts out and bloody miserable, why should you have a less stressful job that you enjoy and which gives you what you want?"

I think you need a serious chat with him about whether your relationship is one of a business partnership or a marriage.

I think the money and job issues are a red herring. He sounds seething with resentment towards you.

The bottom line for me would be do I feel loved? Do I feel cherished? Am I respected?

KeepCoolCalmAndCollected Thu 07-Mar-13 11:26:36

Your husband sounds very shallow and self-centred.

Most men would be very thankful to have you doing what you can to contribe (and very well I might add).

You do seem to pander to him quite a lot and try to keep him happy.

Not including anything material, what does HE do to make sure you and your son are happy, loved and appreciated?

PanickingIdiot Thu 07-Mar-13 11:30:49

I bet he thinks that, Edwards, I've heard that before from people in a similar position, but I find that when you take a closer look at it, that argument doesn't hold water.

If he's slogging his guts out at work and he's bloody miserable, that's not his wife's fault, unless it's the wife pressuring him for more money, bigger house, flashier car, fancier holidays. It's actually the OP who's proposing they downsize, to which the bloke "murmurs something about it being impossible".

I bet he did the same job before they married and had children, possibly before they even met. Who did he blame then for it being bloody miserable, while other people have less stressful jobs they enjoy? Who has kept him from having one of those jobs himself?

He's been earning more than god for a number of years, he has a wife who works, only one child and they have savings in the bank. You don't get more financial security than that in this life. If he doesn't downsize, it's because he doesn't want to.

Crinkle77 Thu 07-Mar-13 11:36:51

Sorry but your husband sounds like a complete arse. What is your contribution? Err raising your child?

badinage Thu 07-Mar-13 12:23:47

I don't think he reacts badly to pressure.

I think he's just a nasty man who gets nastier when he's seeing someone else and this explains why you keep remembering that earlier '5 month episode'.

BranchingOut Thu 07-Mar-13 13:41:24

To answer a few questions from people.

The things he says don't always make sense or have internal consistency.

So although I have sometimes suggested downsizing, he is quite keen to upsize - big detached house, private school etc.

This job is what he has always wanted to do and he mostly enjoys it - although sometimes gets a bit fed up with internal politics - but apart from that he has never expressed any desire to do something else...

For many years, he was the one who wanted children, not me. But then my biological clock finally swung into action!

In the last year or so he has sometimes expressed feelings around 'what is it all for', 'is this it?' about life in general, so I think there is a sense of mid-life crisis under the surface.

His colleagues and their spouses:
The ones who are 10 - 15 years older almost all seem to have spouses who are SAHM. Ones who are his age sometimes have SAHM or spouses who are in high-earning jobs. He has several colleagues who have had to do nursery runs etc, but doesn't seem to compute that he has at least avoided the stress of that.

I think the closest to the mark is the person who said that he doesn't 'feel' that he has enough for what he is earning - the colleagues 10 - 15 years older than him were able to have amazing lifestyles because times were different, house prices were lower etc. etc.

Will come back if there are any more updates, otherwise will just wait and see what happens. thanks all.

badinage Thu 07-Mar-13 13:45:05

Tell us more about this '5 month episode' that you've referred to.

You're ignoring suggestions about his infidelity. Why is that?

Clearly he does not see you as his equal with the subtext to that being he never has and he never will. For him this has and always will be about power and control; he wants absolute.

If you were to read Lundy Bancroft's "Why does he do that?" I think you would find him within those pages.

Was wondering what you get out of this relationship now?.

CaptChaos Thu 07-Mar-13 14:04:24

Seems to me that he is just looking for reasons to either leave you, because he's having an affair, or he's looking for excuses to go and have an affair. He is concentrating at the moment on money and you getting a better paid job because he knows he will have to pay child support at some point and is trying to minimise the expense to himself.

If I were you, I wouldn't be making excuses for his shoddy behaviour, I'd be squirreling money away, getting copies of all financial documents regarding savings and where they are held and all other useful information ready for when he drops the bombshell.

Sorry sad

trustissues75 Thu 07-Mar-13 14:47:06

OP - you seem very tuned into yourself and very smart. From your last post I get the feeling that maybe there's a bit too much all at once for you to think about form what has come out of other posters' typing fingers. I hope it all gets sorted out for you and that he realises he really has lost perspective on what matters - which is his family and their collective happiness.

badinage Thu 07-Mar-13 14:50:26

I don't think he's lost perpective on what matters to him at all. He's making it abundantly clear what matters to him - and it's not the OP, that's for sure.

trustissues75 Thu 07-Mar-13 14:57:51

That's what I mean, badinage. I agree. He has plenty of perspective on what matters to him - question is, when actually faced with having to make some changes, will his perspective change to what actually matters?

onefewernow Thu 07-Mar-13 15:07:40

Branching out, I have thought carefully about your post this morning.

Did you notice that whatever his level of happiness or otherwise, he wants to believe that all solutions available to him are "impossible", and that any other solution he can think of involves you making changes you dont want to make.

Listen very hard to what he is telling you.

What he is saying is that you ought to change your life in order that he should feel happier. He actually doesnt care whether you are happy in your present job or not; his interest is in meeting his own perceived needs for happiness.

There are two problems with this, and of course you know what they are already. One is that you love your new job. Another is that if you did cave in and do what he asks, he will just develop another need for you to address.

You have real evidence for this, as you have talked to him about your job and he doesn't listen. In addition, he is critical of your dress sense and god knows what else he thinks you are not currently doing to add to his (shallow) view of status.

Finally, can I add that in your report backs of your conversations with him, you seem very tentative in tackling him, you express very little anger, and also you can seem conciliatory about things you dont really want or plan to do.

It would do your relationship a power of good, if you have no intention of leaving him, to sit him down and tell him that if he doesnt like you the way you are, and on the terms you come, then he can jolly well fuck off and find someone he considers more suitable.

You know that thing about 'you cant change someone else, only yourself'? If you could change to be a heap more assertive, you would feel better, and he would be forced into a situation where he had no alternative but to look at himself.

That conversation would be something to practice with your counsellor.

Good post.

BranchingOut where I posted that he is disatisfied with with what he has for his income I do also feel there is a subtext that he is trying to make you responsible for some of his dissatisfaction i.e. he is blaming you for not bringing in more money rather than recognising that his expectations are unrealistic. I do think onefewer's approach of lumping the responsibility for his moods firmly back on to him is the right one. You are not responsible for is happiness or unhappiness and he shouldn't be trying to dump it on you.

onefewernow Thu 07-Mar-13 15:38:13

I mean, isn't it as plain as the nose on your face that a bigger house, a more attractive (in his eyes) wife and yet more money will not make him happier? How can it?

But is it always easier for some people to believe that if other people effect changes on their behalf then some long term miracle will result.

This man is not happy with himself . He knows it. He doesn't know why, and he doesn't want to fun out either.

MadAboutHotChoc Thu 07-Mar-13 16:20:15

Reading this has sent a shiver down my back - my DH used to go on about a similar issue (as well as a few others). It turned out that he was was in the middle of an affair and was nitpicking, trying to find fault in order to justify his cheating.

Tell us about the 5 months episode.

MadAboutHotChoc Thu 07-Mar-13 16:34:07

Have had a quick look at your previous threads sad this man has dished out a lot of emotional abuse and head fuckery.

Can I ask how things were before the "episode"?

If things were good, you felt cherished, valued and loved then something major happened to change things - usually because he has checked out of the marriage due to OW.

Milly22 Thu 07-Mar-13 16:40:45

Men who are financially obsessed never change!angry H neglected my needs, I also work P/T because of childcare while he's been promoted and invested. No time for quality time except down the pub with his mate so I'm off. Now he's wallowing in his self pity. Your H really needs to understand that priorities change when children came along and sometimes you have to sacrifice financially too.

arthriticfingers Thu 07-Mar-13 17:09:28

Branching out
Can I echo the suggestion to read the Lundy Bancroft book?:
The snivelling about the older men having it better rang all sorts of alarm bells with me.
It was one of the many 'poor me' laments of my FW abusive EX.
Like others, I think your H is slipping further and further into abuse. sad

arthriticfingers Thu 07-Mar-13 17:10:15
BranchingOut Thu 07-Mar-13 18:46:09

Just to say, I am out tonight but will post back later or tomorrow.

cassgate Thu 07-Mar-13 19:45:00

Sounds like he is trying to compete with his colleagues. I worked in the city and it is not at all unusual to work with people who have massive joint salaries. Difference is that where both of them work they have live in nannies for the kids and they never see them. I had a female boss once who earned £100k plus (this was 10 years ago). Her husband worked for a different bank and was on the board so god only knows what his package amounted too. They had a lavish lifestyle there is no doubt about that, big house, flashy cars, first class flights to amazing holiday destinations. But they never saw their kids. Both left the house before the kids got up in the morning and didnt get home until after they were in bed. There was also a lot of travelling involved with the job which meant frequent weekend flights. His jealous, it doesnt excuse his behaviour but may account for it. Its also not unusual to work with well connected people who have family wealth so it can seem that you are poor in comparison.

In contrast, my dh has a similar salary to your dh and I gave up work completely when we had kids 10 years ago. We also have a similarity that I also came into an inheritance about the same time I gave up work. Difference is the inheritance and all our savings are in my name. I used some of the inheritance to pay off a chunk on our mortgage and the rest just sits there for a rainy day. There have been two of those when dh was made redundant twice in the space of 5 years and we used some of the savings until he got another job. Coincidentally, we have also been together 20+ years but only married for 5.

Fair point, LucyEllen. I should have said, 'I get that he worries about finances...' because he seems to do so, despite the fact that he needn't.

noraknickers Fri 08-Mar-13 23:43:39

Have just looked at a few of your old threads, OP. I'm sorry but I'd say it is time to knock this one on the head. How much more criticism are you going to take? He's not suddenly going to change and it looks like you are the only one in the relationship making the effort.

I've been there myself. It is draining and a waste of time. Please let go of this idiot and find yourself someone who appreciates you for who you are.

MadAboutHotChoc Sat 09-Mar-13 07:23:08

Looks like Op has gone...given her history of posting and disappearing she'll be back in a few months' time confused.

OP - hope you are ok, if you really want help, we are here for you but you need to start answering questions.

she posted yesterday and said that she was out for the evening choc.

MadAboutHotChoc Sat 09-Mar-13 08:34:06

Ah missed that blush thanks SAF

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